May 16, 2024 • 41 mins
In this episode, Tim Hopper, a deacon at Shiloh OPC in Raleigh, North Carolina, chairman of the Presbytery of the Southeast Diaconal Committee and a member of the OPC Committee on Diaconal Ministries reminds us that being a deacon doesn't stand on its own, but serves as part of Christ's church. Tim says it's good that we have presbytery and denominational diaconal committees to aid us in our service, but ultimately, Christ hasn't established and ordained these committees. He has instituted deacons primarily for service within the local church and we must remember that's the greatest calling that they've been given. As a result, there is the opportunity, as members of our various committees, to serve and build up our local churches and local diaconates. In this session, Tim shares how that might be done through Presbytery Diaconal Committee
Referenced in this episode:
- OPCCDM.org (where you can find lots of diaconal resources)
- Union Seminary Magazine 1903: The Deacon RC Reed
- The Mercy Minute quarterly e-newsletter
- C. Nick Wilborn on The Reformed Deacon "A Deacon's Personal Library"
- Presbytery Diaconal Summit Videos
- National Diaconal Summit Videos
- "The Deacon is No Small Office"—audio recording Rev. C. Nick Willborn at the 2018 PSE Diaconal Conference
- The Reformed Deacon podcast
You can find all of our episodes at thereformeddeacon.org. Make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast player, so you don't miss an episode. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram for giveaways and more information. Find other resources on OPCCDM.org. Make sure to send us some feedback on your podcast player or ask a diaconal question by going to OPCCDM.org.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tim Hopper (00:00):
Deacons don't have a natural system built in where
they're seeing deacons fromother churches.
Deacons don't have somethinglike Presbytery, where they're
inevitably getting to know andfellowship with other brothers
from other churches.
David Nakhla (00:15):
This is David Nakhla, administrator for the
Committee on Diaconal Ministries.
We're thankful for theopportunity to have you listen
in on this session from thefifth OPC Presbytery Diaconal
Summit, co-hosted by OPCPresbyterian Diaconal Summit,
co-hosted by the OPC's Committeeon Diaconal Ministries as well
as Committee on Ministerial Care, held in Chicago just this past
November.
Although the content isprimarily focused toward those
(00:36):
serving on Presbyterian DiaconalCommittees, I trust you'll find
that many aspects of the talkwill benefit local deacons with
food for thought, even withinspiration that comes from
thinking outside the box.
We urge you to value yourselffor the resources you'll hear
about in this episode.
As always, we welcome yourideas and feedback and we hope
that your work is blessed by thecontent that you hear.
(00:57):
Now let's get into this nextepisode.
Tim Hopper (01:00):
Thank you, brothers, for having me here.
This is my second time atPresbyterian Diaconal Summit,
and the previous one I was noton the CDM, so I greatly
benefited from the previous onein 2019, and I've been glad to
be a part of helping prepare it.
This time I'm here reallyfundamentally because I love
(01:22):
Christ's church and I'm sograteful that he's called me to
be a part of it.
And because I love Christ'schurch, I love the government
that he's established for hischurch and I love the offices
that he's ordained for hischurch and, as a result, I love
deacons and I've been privilegedto be a deacon for 10 years now
(01:43):
.
But being a deacon doesn'tstand just on its own, but it is
part of being part of Christ'schurch and being part of the
body and being part of whatChrist has established for us,
and I think it's good that wehave Presbyterians and
denominational committees toserve in these ways.
(02:03):
But ultimately, christ hasn'testablished and ordained these
committees, but he's given useach our own offices and the
governments of our owncongregations, and I think we
need to remember that that's ourgreatest calling that we've
been given and, as a result, Ithink we have an opportunity, as
(02:24):
members of our variouscommittees to serve and build up
our local churches and localdiaconates, and that's what I'm
here to help try to share withyou how you might do that
through your PresbyterianDiaconal Committee.
We live in an era that is, Ithink, in our Reformed churches,
(02:48):
in the OPC and our sisterdenominations, we have strong
emphasis on diaconates on thewhole, I think, more than has
been true at times historically,and I think that's a great
thing for us to look to and begrateful for.
There have been eras where thediaconates really languished in
the 19th century.
That happened significantly inScotland and in the US.
But I think then ouropportunity is to just you know,
(03:10):
have the momentum that'salready started and be able to
run with it and push it forward,and that's a good opportunity
for us.
I often, when I talk aboutdiaconal things, like to share
this quote from a SouthernPresbyterian named RC Reid, who
wrote for Union SeminaryMagazine in 1903 about
diaconates and the good thatthey can bring.
(03:31):
He says To avoid frictionbetween members, to promote
happy pastorates, to develop thegrace of liberality, nothing is
more important than a gooddeacon, one who can be patient,
one who can smile atunreasonable people and speak a
soft word to turn away wrath,one who is willing to give time
(03:51):
and take trouble on himself andmake himself all things to all
men in order to promote theinterest of his master's cause.
And I think that's been truefor me in my own experience.
There is an opportunity fordiaconates, among other things,
to promote peace and happinessin the congregation and that
(04:21):
inevitably by the nature of ifthere's conflict, the session
often is the one kind of indisagreement with people and
deacons have an opportunity topromote peace in the
congregation through those times.
And I think there is to somedegree an analogy that our
presbytery diaconal committeeshave the opportunity to promote
(04:43):
peace and unity across ourpresbyteries.
I know the Presbytery of theSoutheast is the only presbytery
that's had any kind of conflictin recent years, but we have,
and it's an opportunity for usas a committee to show the love
of the presbytery to eachcongregation, even, as Mike
(05:04):
alluded to earlier, love of thepresbytery to each congregation,
even, as Mike alluded toearlier, even at times,
ministers who are underdiscipline, to show that their
church, their regional church,still loves them even in those
circumstances.
So our proposed mandate thatDavid went over includes this
statement that presbyterydiaconal committees are to
promote, encourage andcoordinate diaconal work in the
presbytery, the Presbytery ofthe Southeast.
(05:26):
We have similar language in ourstanding rules.
Our standing rules, presbyteryDiaconal Committee is fairly
similar to what is in theproposed mandate.
I'm actually going to give oneof the reports from the
Presbytery Diaconal Committeeand share from a slightly
different angle.
But I have the privilege I'vechaired this committee for a
(05:49):
long time now, for I think forseven years but had the
privilege of really inheritingwhat the previous chairman was
able to establish, really kindof recreating what our
Presbyterian Diaconal Committeedoes.
Little short guy, guy funnyaccent named Matt Holst.
He's now my pastor.
He wasn't at the time but hereally reshaped what our
(06:12):
committee has done and I wasreally able to pick up what he
had established and run with it.
So why do our diaconates needpromotion and encouragement and
coordination?
Well, these things have alreadybeen alluded to, I think, in
(06:36):
maybe every talk.
But just to give you a sense ofwhere the Presbytery of the
Southeast is, we have, I believe, 32 congregations or mission
works, I think 23 congregationsand nine mission works.
Twelve of those mission worksor congregations have no deacons
, so a third of thecongregations, three of them
(06:57):
have solo deacons, which is itsown significant challenge.
Some have aging deacons youknow we've had men in their 80s
still serving at times.
Some have rookie deacons whomight not have experienced
deacons around them.
Some have pastors in sessionswho don't know how to train and
(07:19):
equip their deacons, and ourdeacons don't have a natural
system built in where they'reseeing deacons from other
churches, as David talked aboutcoming to a summit and meeting
the guy from 20 miles away.
Deacons don't have somethinglike presbytery where they're
inevitably getting to know andfellowship with their brothers
(07:42):
from other churches.
So the CDM has done a lot ofwork towards that end through
the summits and it's been agreat opportunity.
I've gotten to know brothersfrom my own presbytery that way,
but there's an opportunity forthe Presbytery Diaconal
Committees to do that as well.
I really started to see this in2015, our Presbytery Diaconal
(08:03):
Committee so I'd been a deaconfor two years our Presbytery
Diaconal Committee organized aconference that was held at
what's now Resurrection OBC inMatthews, north Carolina, and it
just never really occurred tome to think about diaconal work
in a broader, connectional,presbyterian way prior to that
event.
David, I think you were therespeaking.
(08:24):
That was the first time we metDavid and that led to, I guess,
six months later I ended up onthe Presbyterian Diaconal
Committee.
So some things that you mightbe able to do.
And you know, for those whohave said, you know our
committee is very new, we'reonly just getting started.
Don't take this as you have togo home and implement all these
things in the next year.
(08:44):
You can't do that.
You don't need to burdenyourself with that.
Just think about some things.
Write down a couple things thatyou want to try to implement
and maybe, you know, try to keepyour notes so that you can come
back in a couple of years andlook at them and see what else
can we add.
But I'm going to go throughsome things that we've done as
well as some things we'vethought about.
If people have questions alongthe way, I'm happy for you to
(09:07):
interrupt and I'll answer themas I can.
But we I'm interested in whatothers are doing as well, what
others are wondering about.
So if you have questions, youcan ask.
I think one thing you canactually let me also say I
didn't make any slides oranything, but I'm happy to clean
up my notes a little bit andshare it If that's useful to
(09:28):
people you can.
You can let me know or letDavid know and we can email
those out if you're not able towrite things down.
But so first I think one thingyou can do as a Presbytery
Diaconal Committee is to thinkabout how to promote Committee
on Diaconal Ministries resourcesthroughout your presbytery.
We do a lot through Trish, ourextraordinary communications
(09:51):
coordinator, who's here, andTrish is the one who is putting
together the Mercy Minute andthe other emails that are going
out from the CDM.
So people are seeing thosethings.
But you know it's easy forpeople to to overlook emails and
you know you, as you know, youcan tell people things multiple
times and they still don't knowabout them.
(10:12):
So we have things like thediaconal summits that happen
every few years.
The CDM makes an effort to getpeople there, but you can pick
up the phone and call deacons inyour presbytery or whatever
efforts you can make to say, hey, are you guys going to be able
to come to this summit?
The CDM is there to serve thePDCs as much as the PDCs are
(10:37):
there to serve the localcongregations, and we want to
get your men to the summits.
There's also on the website thesummit archives.
There's a lot of questions frompeople at times of do we have
materials on diaconal training,like that's?
One of the better resources wehave at the moment is we have
video and audio of, I believe,all of the summits are all on
(11:03):
the CDM website and those aregood resources.
If people are asking you whatthings are there, send their
deacons.
I think, especially this lastsummit last summer, 2022,
watching through those videoswould be a great resource in
terms of training.
There's the Reform Deaconpodcast.
Again, trish, ourcommunications coordinator, has
(11:25):
helped make that happen and Ithink it's turned out extremely
well.
The content that we'reproducing is something that
isn't coming from anywhere elseand we're, lord willing, going
to continue to do that.
I think our list of ideas ispretty endless at this point.
So promote that to the men inyour presbytery.
I've thought thought about andwe haven't really done this yet
(11:45):
maybe making some kind ofpresbytery wide newsletter.
Even thought about making justlike a paper, one that you send
out, like just a print, a sheetback in front.
We have 60 deacons, you knowstuff envelopes twice a year and
send it out and just, you know,include information about the
cdm and different resources andalso the CDM tries to promote
(12:08):
this as much as we can, butletting local diaconates know
that the CDM has financialresources, among other things,
that we can help localcongregations with if they are
unable to meet financial needs.
And you know as much as werepeat that not everyone's going
to know we're always having newdeacons, so just put that
available in front of people.
(12:29):
A topic that's come up quiteregularly has been maintaining a
diaconal registry.
This was something that ourbylaws required us to do when I
took over as chairman but hadnot been updated for a while.
So I have taken that effort.
Several people people mentionedthis already, but it is a
really good place to start For anumber of reasons.
(12:51):
You have to.
You know you can't just do itonce.
You have to keep pestering yourlocal pastors or clerks of
sessions to get those detailsupdated, but it's.
It's been really fruitful forus.
We have ours in a spreadsheetyou can do this with Google
Sheets and other tools where youcan then just share the link.
(13:11):
And we have a privatepresbytery website that
presbyters can go accessinformation, and there's a link
there to the view of thespreadsheet so that they can go
access that at any time with themost up-to-date information.
We make that available.
Then I also send it outperiodically to our diagonals as
(13:32):
well.
That's a worthwhile effort.
So for those of you who havebeen working on it, keep at it.
Something else that I've reallytried to do for our presbytery
is just making myself availableand known to the people in our
presbytery, particularly theofficers of our presbytery.
(13:53):
Again, something that's come upseveral times already is this
topic of presenting atpresbytery.
Our presbytery bylaws requireour committee to report on our
financial expenses to thepresbytery, so every presbytery
docket includes the diaconalcommittee presenting there.
(14:16):
I have made a point as chairmanto try to be at every
presbytery meeting that I can,and my work is usually flexible
enough that I've been able to dothat Partially to give that
presentation, which is oftenfive minutes out of a lengthy
day and a half long presbyterymeeting.
But I want the men of ourpresbytery to know who I am and
(14:38):
what the Presbytery DiaconalCommittee is and what it can
offer to their congregations,because when the time comes they
have a need that extends beyondtheir congregation.
I want them to think of us andremember us.
So often quite a bit of ourreport is me saying the same
things every meeting twice ayear.
We're here, we're available.
(14:59):
Here's the names of everyone onthe committee.
Here's our phone numbers.
This is what we can offer and Ithink that's paid off when
people do know me and know myname and know who's on our
committee and what we can do forthem.
One session asked me a coupleyears ago to come talk with
(15:21):
their deacons in training.
It was a really greatopportunity.
I gave like a more formalpresentation and then we just
had a meal.
I guess we did it on Sundaymorning before worship and then
we had a meal after worship.
The deacons and their wives orthe deacons in training and
their wives were able to justcome talk with me and ask me
questions, and that's becausethis minister knew me from
(15:42):
Presbytery.
So you need again just to bereminding the presbyters and who
will also be able to talk totheir deacons that your
Presbytery Diaconal Committeehas the capacity to help with
financial things as they come upand the church isn't able to
meet.
And, as you have heard, even ifyour presbytery can't always
(16:06):
help, the CDM may be able tohelp.
You have heard, even if yourpresbytery can't always help,
the CDM may be able to help.
Our presbytery has been tryingto switch also to having
requiring committees to havewritten reports, which is
something I'd wanted to do for awhile, but been more diligent
about it in the past couple ofyears.
So I have a written report thatyou know, similar to David,
(16:26):
describing the Presbytery ofPhiladelphia meetings, going
through their basically theirresponsibilities from the
standing rules, our report.
I try to cover all thedifferent things that our
Presbytery standing rulesrequire us to do and report on
those, as there's things toshare.
I also had the idea in thespring well, we should also just
(16:47):
be, just now that we have awritten report, be sharing that
with our deacons.
So I now, because I have thedirectory and have email
addresses for people, share thatpresbytery report with the
deacons of the presbytery.
There may be make some smallmodifications, but for the most
part it's the same as what'sshared with the presbytery.
(17:09):
But I think my final thing onmaking yourself available and
known to the Presbytery is thenyou need to be responsive when
people are then coming to youwith a request.
You can't just let an email sitin your inbox for a week or two
weeks before you get back tosomebody, even if you don't have
something to say right away,you need to let people know.
Hey, I've seen your request.
Maybe you have to put togethera meeting of the committee on,
(17:30):
you know, a conference callbefore you discuss or whatever.
But you need to be responsiveto people or they're not going
to bother to try again.
I think this topic has been abig one for me and I know not
every deacon if your chairman'sa deacon, or even a ruling elder
maybe is able to attend everypresbytery meeting.
(17:50):
Our presbytery has enabled meto receive the financial support
from the travel fund of thepresbytery to come to presbytery
meetings, which helps.
But even if your chairman can'tbe there, have somebody else
report.
You really do need to bereporting to your presbytery.
Okay, another one again.
(18:13):
People have alluded to a lot ofthese ideas already, but hosting
a diaconal conference to yourpresbytery for your presbytery.
We've aspired to this.
The first one I know of in ourpresbytery was the one I was at
in 2015.
I'm not sure if one happenedprior to that, but we did one
again in 2018, hosted at mychurch, and we had I don't know,
(18:37):
20 or 30 guys from thepresbytery come out to that
Great time of fellowship.
I think maybe we met Fridaynight and then Saturday through
lunch or something, so the guyscan get home for church.
Our presbytery has a 10 or 12hour drive all the way across
the presbytery and we're off toone side so it's far for some
(18:58):
people, but we had people fromall over attend.
We invited a guest speaker thispast one, reverend Nick Wilborn,
who you may have heard on theReformed Deacon podcast fairly
recently, a PCA minister inTennessee who loves the
diaconate.
He's a church historian.
He loves the history of thediaconate but very practical
loves the diaconate.
(19:19):
Those talks from him areactually on.
I think they're on the CDMwebsite.
They're also on Shiloh'swebsite, my Congregation's web,
sermon Audio.
This doesn't have to beexpensive.
We did it for under $2,000.
I can't remember exactly.
My local church was able tochip in some for that.
The CDM in the past has hadfunds for first-time conferences
(19:41):
.
Is that still the case?
The Presbytery is having aconference for the first time.
I know we also made a requestthis time from not the first
time and the CDM was able tohelp a little bit.
But you can at least ask.
Talk to David if funds are anissue, but it doesn't have to be
that expensive Deacons havepretty low expectations.
So, it's nice and we alsoinvited ministers and elders to
(20:05):
that as well, which I think inany as know, as we do for the
National Diaconal Summit,ministers and elders would be
benefiting from this.
We didn't have many turn out,but I would encourage you to do
that If you just need ideas forspeakers, or you know, I think
there are men from the CDM,david and others who would be
willing to speak.
(20:26):
You know, come talk to us, talkto David.
It's a really nice time and agood opportunity to get to know
men.
One thing we've thought aboutyou know we have a big
presbytery and I realize we'remaybe not even in the top half
of in times of size ofpresbyteries, but the Presbytery
of the Southeast is a bigpresbytery.
(20:47):
We've talked about maybe,instead of having these
presbytery-wide things, can wedo some smaller, more regional
things and we can do somethinglike in Raleigh or Charlotte and
something in Atlanta and haveeverybody, almost everybody,
within a three or four-hourdrive instead of maybe a
seven-hour drive.
That's not something we've doneyet, but it's something we've
(21:15):
discussed quite a bit at varioustimes.
This is all since I've been onthe committee.
You know we had covid whichthrew us for a loop we're
starting to talk about planninga third conference.
I've also my wife's had fourkids since I've been chairman of
the committee, so there's beena lot for me, but we have
aspirations to be able tocontinue this in the future.
Just briefly, if anybody who'snot any, we have nine chairmen
(21:36):
reporting on your Presbyteriancommittees.
If there's anybody maybe who'snot going to be reporting has
had a conference that's beenvery successful, that you'd like
to share anything about or anyideas on hosting a conference.
Well, it's really not rocketscience.
I mean you can reserve a blockof hotel rooms, see if some
ladies from the church will bewilling to coordinate in feeding
(21:58):
people.
Have some speakers, andspeakers don't need to be fancy,
they can be your pastor andmaybe a couple deacons, but it's
worthwhile time.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
Alternatives to conferences In other words, he
can gather in your general topic.
Tim Hopper (22:19):
Yeah, so David's asking if I'm talking about
gatherings kind of, besidesconferences.
I don't have a lot to say tothat, because we haven't been
able to do that.
Yeah, has anybody had somethingbeyond a conference, just kind
of a fellowship time, or maybethe president of philadelphia?
While you're bringing it up,the president of philadelphia I
(22:39):
saw uh, in our last conference,we had david from top.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
It was awesome.
Our next conference, uh, we'reactually planning a blue
simulation put on by the feedbank in our area, and so we're
going to have a bunch of vegansgo through what it's like to be
poor and hungry.
So that was put up by one ofour committee members.
We're all really excited aboutit.
So maybe something like that,you know, keep in mind.
Tim Hopper (23:04):
I went to grad school for poverty simulations.
Speaker 6 (23:07):
I've had enough of that I have never heard this
done before, but I think we needto begin to think about our
wives.
They are the greatest asset wehave.
We've never talked, at leastthat I know of in 25 years,
about the deacon's wives andtheir roles in hospitality and
(23:29):
ministry and service and helpingus to see and understand the
needs these women need to beencouraged.
Can we do something special forthem, to show them what they
need?
Tim Hopper (23:45):
Yeah, I think that's not something our present jury
has taken up at all, but I thinkthat's a great question, Bob.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
But, Bob, you can talk about what you guys do as a
fellowship.
Speaker 6 (23:58):
We've done everything .
I think We've had fire cues,we've had conferences of all
ages and sizes.
The problem we have is distance, david, I wish we were closer
together.
It would change everything.
But we've done this for many,for several decades, and the
reality is is that we are toofar distant for anyone to come.
(24:21):
The only way we're going to getpeople is if we go to the site
that we're interested inconnecting with and do it there,
to the site that we'reinterested in connecting with
and do it there.
We've done everything.
Zoom has gotten us a long wayand getting quality speakers to
talk about pertinent issues.
I've already said it, but it'schanged at least part of the
(24:42):
Presbytery's view of how weminister and how we encourage
and promote in the Presbytery.
At that point we talk aboutwhat's coming up, what we're
doing, we communicate at thattime with our churches and then
we make sure we have at leastone time of prayer and
fellowship where we're reallyconnecting with our deacons and
(25:02):
you can't pull people togetherthan trying other things.
Maybe not in Zoom, trysomething else Makes nothing
work.
The one good thing about COVIDwas even Scott Schallenberger
learned Maybe not in Zoom, trysomething else Makes nothing
work.
Tim Hopper (25:10):
The one good thing about COVID was even Scott
Schallenberger learned how touse Zoom.
We can see his face when wehave PDC meetings now, just
kidding.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Oh, go ahead.
I was just going to say thatthat's a good way to break into
one of the presbyteries or startnow meeting together.
Instead of having this bigconcept of uh something, start
with a general gathering centrallocation.
If you have a big presbytery, avfw or something on good rent
(25:41):
and um you know, get everybodyinvolved and uh, just the
administering of physicalpresence will build up the
committee.
Tim Hopper (25:50):
All right, a few more things here.
Disaster response is somethingthat we're going to have a whole
talk on in a minute, so I'm notgoing to try to step on their
toes, but our PresbyteryDiaconal Committee should be
really taking the lead on this.
This was a lesson learned in.
Our Presbytery DiaconalCommittee should be really
taking the lead on this.
This was a lesson learned inour presbytery In 2011,.
(26:12):
We had the bad tornadoes hitAlabama and then also some up in
Virginia and church inChilhowee, virginia, had
significant damage to propertiesof people in that church, and
this was before my time on thecommittee, but our Presbyterian
Diaconal Committee was totallyunprepared to enable any kind of
(26:35):
response to that.
My understanding is HankBelfield, who's the minister
there now the state clerk of theOPC as well ended up.
That responsibility ended upfalling on Hank to coordinate
the response, which just isn'tthe way you know it should be,
and that was, I think, aneye-opener for our Presbytery
Diaconal Committee at the timeto start to be prepared for
(26:58):
responding, kind of like Katrina, as we heard about yesterday.
The disaster response effortshave undoubtedly unified and
strengthened.
Our presbytery Men have beenable to work together through
response to hurricanes and nowto NEON recently.
These efforts have been awitness in those congregations.
(27:20):
I'm sure Seth is going to share.
Seth Long from NEON is going toshare how people in their
church who are totally new toPresbyterianism just had their
eyes open to see people comingfrom all over the country to
come and help them in littleNeon, kentucky that nobody's
heard of other than the OPchurch being there.
So you know there are differentcircumstances, as we've heard.
(27:46):
In different places you havedifferent risks.
Our committee has largelyfocused on preparedness for
responding to hurricanes.
That's our biggest threat inthe Southeast, as we experienced
in 2019, I think, damage tocongregations.
But because we have thisregistry, because we have the
(28:09):
one and only Mike Coy, we'realso ready for something else
that hits.
So as we pay attention to thenews, if we hear about a big
storm going through somewhere,flooding different incidents,
our committee tries the next dayto be in touch with pastors or
(28:31):
deacons from those localcongregations and say, hey, was
your church impacted?
Was anyone from yourcongregation impacted?
One of the things we do withour directory, our deacon
directory, is we assign one ofour five committee members to
each congregation within thepresbytery.
So that's kind of be to be themain point of contact.
So ideally you know that personis going to contact the church
(28:55):
in the area that something mighthave happened.
No, also in this disasterresponse, something you're going
to hear about this as well.
You know the committee on theicon ministries and David, as
disaster response coordinatorfor the OPC, are ready to assist
in this.
Mike has more ideas than youcould ever manage on how to be
(29:15):
prepared here.
If you want to talk to Mike, hewould be happy to talk to you
about it.
So you know, I think everybodyhas some kind of possible risks,
whether flooding, hurricanes,earthquakes, tornadoes, storms.
It should be your PresbyterianDiaconal Committee at least
(29:36):
being the first response outsideof the local congregation when
those kinds of things happen.
And it's going to mean a lot toyour local deacons to hear from
somebody on their PresbyterianDiakon committee and realize
they were paying attention toyou, they knew where you lived,
they knew in the song the newsof the storm hit.
It's going to be anencouragement.
(29:56):
So we'll hear more about thatin this afternoon, I think.
Similarly, just being prepared,and people have been talking
about being proactive.
I've already talked about beingresponsive, but just do you
have you know, to some degree.
I think a lot of diaconal workis reactive, in that we don't
just have ongoing things oftenwe're just waiting to some
(30:18):
extent for things to happen.
But you just need to beprepared for those things to
happen and your committee, forexample, being prepared for
financial requests that come.
Do you know how your committeeis going to process that, think
about that, potentially fund it,handle it.
You need to just think throughbeing ready for those situations
.
All right, a few more littlethings here Before I wrap up.
(30:44):
Something that's been on my mindhas been engaging our local
deacons with retired ministersand their widows.
Hopefully everyone's doingcalls on behalf of the Obadiah
Fund.
There are also other ministerswho aren't part is to keep an
(31:10):
eye on these retired ministersand we do that and it's a great
encouragement to do that.
I also want to see our localcongregations, and particularly
local deacons, engaged withthese retired ministers and
making sure that the deacons areencouraging and supporting them
.
I don't know exactly how we dothat.
The Presbyterian of theSoutheast has a large number of
retired ministers probably morepeople retiring to North
(31:32):
Carolina than North Dakota butthere are at times, for example,
retired ministers who areliving maybe not near an OP
church and they're in the PCAand maybe are unknown to local
deacons or living.
We have several who live with achild and go to the church with
(31:53):
the child, and this is metalking to myself as well as to
you.
I'm interested in engaging ourlocal deacons, even if it's not
a retired minister, at theircongregation, that if they have
someone in their geographicvicinity just by the nature of
being a retired OP minister, Ithink it's appropriate for our
deacons to at least know themand take them out to lunch once
(32:15):
a year or something and be intouch with them.
So it's just something to thinkabout how to encourage your
local deacons to do that,something that came up in the
survey we did.
I know the Presbytery ofPhiladelphia has done some joint
work days at churches onbuilding projects and I think
somebody else alluded to thatanother presbytery today.
That's not something we'vepursued, but I think it's a
(32:38):
great opportunity.
I mean, as you know, that'ssuch a good opportunity for
fellowship If you get to justwork beside somebody and chat
with them while you work onsomething.
I think even in geographicallyspread presbyteries there's
potential there.
You know, you don't have tonecessarily get somebody from
500 miles away, but somebodymight be willing to drive a
couple hours to spend a Saturdayworking on a project.
(32:59):
I think that's a great way fordeacons and congregations to get
to know one another infellowship, something that I
wish I had not gone seven yearswithout ever thinking of.
But Patrick Whitmore, where areyou, patrick?
(33:19):
Patrick from the PresbyterianMid-Atlantic said in the survey
that your deacons at presbyterymeetings try to meet with local
deacons from the church that'shosting presbytery in the area
that's hosting presbytery in thearea that's hosting presbytery.
So I try to attend ourpresbytery meetings and hop
around to differentcongregations and that's never
crossed my mind.
But I think that's a great ideafor your presbytery diaconal
committee, as you're able to tryto meet with those deacons and
(33:42):
understand their needs, makesure they're aware of your
committee.
I think that's really wise.
Anything to add to that?
Yeah, I think that's a greatpractice and something I'd like
to think about doing.
Very good idea.
A couple of things that I'm kindof thinking through that I
don't know the answers to that.
(34:03):
I'd like our presbytery to bemore engaged with.
One is what we just heard talkon is how can we help Mission
Works, but not just MissionWorks.
We have congregations with nodeacons where that
responsibility according to theBCO falls on the session and
(34:24):
Peter from Concho, arizona, isan elder there and you're part
of your session subcommittee orwhatever on diaconal needs and
that responsibility falls onPeter and they're really trying
to execute on that.
But I think I'm realizing ourcommittee has maybe dropped the
ball to some extent, in that wehave this deacon registry and I
(34:45):
even keep track of thecongregations that don't have
deacons in that registry.
But when there's no phonenumbers to call, it leaves a
little bit of a gap and I thinkprobably we need to be at least
keeping one contact at all thosecongregations that don't have
deacons you know Mission Worksparticularly, but we have other
congregations as well andkeeping this contact open with
(35:08):
someone on the session and beingable to check in with them as
there are disasters and thingslike that, but also just being
able to ask is your church beingable to serve diaconal needs
even without deacons?
And I think there's more for usto do, for my committee to be
doing there.
A similar issue that's on mymind as a PDC and CDM member.
(35:32):
I'm the chairman of thesubcommittee of the CDM on
diaconal training.
David says one of the mainrequests he gets from
congregation is how can we traindeacons?
That's something the CDM isthinking through, something as a
Presbyterian Diaconal CommitteeI like to try to have more for
(35:53):
people.
I think if pastors are gettinganything about deacons in
seminary, it's often a verysmall amount.
Some pastors are fortunate tohave diaconal experience before
becoming ministers, but I thinkmany pastors don't have a great
sense of how to train deacons ismy impression.
(36:14):
So that's on my mind.
If other people are thinkingabout that, we'd love to talk
about that.
David and I and others on thediaconal training subcommittee
are very interested in thattopic.
But within your presbytery, Ithink if you're moving forward
as a committee and being knownto the committee, you're going
(36:35):
to get this question.
You're going to go to apresbytery meeting and a new
pastor is going to grab you andsay how do I train deacons?
I think it was on theMortification of Spend podcast
that David and I just did.
My number one recommendation topeople is go get the Van Damme
book the Deacon we interviewedhim on the podcast as well,
(36:56):
cornelius Van Damme.
That's a really goodcomprehensive book and I think
going through that is a greatway to do training.
But yeah, I guess what I'mencouraging you to is have, if
somebody comes and asks you thatquestion, have some kind of
answer, even if it's not atotally satisfactory answer,
point them to CDM, opccdmorg.
(37:17):
As we've already said, thereare a lot of good resources
there.
Okay, let me see if I hadanything else I wanted to cover.
I think I'm about at the end.
Let me see if I had anythingelse I wanted to cover.
I think I'm about at the end.
No, I think that's about at theend of my Any questions for me
or any insight others have onthis topic, stuart.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
The question I had is so at presbytery meetings, do
you have any more of a role thanreading the report?
Tim Hopper (37:42):
At presbytery meetings, do I have any more of
a role than reading the report?
I don't, for it.
At Presbyterian meetings, do Ihave any more of a role than
reading the report?
I don't.
I basically am given privilegesof the floor to the extent of
my presentation.
So I mostly sit in the back andtwiddle my thumbs, but I like
to be there.
(38:03):
I try to be there the wholetime because I want to be
available to people at breaksand various things.
People want to come chat withme.
It's also an opportunitysometimes for us to talk with
new ministers without a callthat we're working with.
But yeah, I've never beencalled upon for anything further
.
Yes, sir.
Speaker 5 (38:18):
Most presidents of church, most ministers, don't
know that deacons don't havedifferent beliefs.
Ministers don't know thatdeacons know different things
and the reason why we don't havesomeone who's new to our church
become a deacon is because youhave to know and trust this
person to actually entrustyourself, to see care from them
(38:41):
right.
So the more that your ministerscan become familiar with you as
deacons serving on mobility anddiacom committees, the more
effective you are going to be inministering to them.
You get to know them, they getto know you.
It's face time right.
So I think it's difficult fordeacons to get to proclutane
(39:02):
obedience and it is a big ask,but if you can do it, I think
it's.
You know that it is a big ask,but if you can do it, I think
it's.
It's hugely valuable.
It's that, it's thatinteraction time and you get a
sense as a deacon.
You're going to get a senseeven in the, in the workings of
the proletarian.
You get a sense of who men are,how they take that type of
thing that's going to inform howyou minister to them when the
(39:25):
time comes at our lastpresbytery meeting a few weeks
ago.
Tim Hopper (39:28):
The meeting went long and the Presbytery Diaconal
Committee report is always thefirst thing that gets cut if
they don't have enough time.
So I wasn't even there.
Jeffrey Carter was going topresent on my behalf and the
report didn't happen.
But they still had the printedreport.
But all that to say, a ministerwho I don't know very well but
(39:48):
I'm Facebook friends with,commented on Facebook missed
seeing you at Presbytery Timwhen I you know we didn't even
have the opportunity to report.
So he hadn't even missed that Iwasn't reporting, but I just
was pleased to see that henoticed that I wasn't there.
I'm very hard, you know, tohard to miss.
But anyway that that wasencouraging to me because that's
(40:12):
the goal that I've had and Irealize not everyone in my work
is allows me to do this, variousthings, but not everyone can do
that but that that was reallyencouraging to me to see a
minister realize that I wasn'tthere and realize, you know,
this committee has a place inthe presbytery.
I'm happy to chat about any ofthis stuff here or in the future
(40:35):
.
David Nakhla (40:36):
Thanks for joining us.
Go to our website,thereformdeaconorg.
There you will find all ourepisodes, program notes and
other helpful resources, andplease make plans to join us
again next month for anotherepisode of the Reformed Deacon
Podcast.
Deacons don't have a natural system built in where
they're seeing deacons fromother churches.
Deacons don't have somethinglike Presbytery, where they're
inevitably getting to know andfellowship with other brothers
from other churches.
David Nakhla (00:15):
This is David Nakhla, administrator for the
Committee on Diaconal Ministries.
We're thankful for theopportunity to have you listen
in on this session from thefifth OPC Presbytery Diaconal
Summit, co-hosted by OPCPresbyterian Diaconal Summit,
co-hosted by the OPC's Committeeon Diaconal Ministries as well
as Committee on Ministerial Care, held in Chicago just this past
November.
Although the content isprimarily focused toward those
(00:36):
serving on Presbyterian DiaconalCommittees, I trust you'll find
that many aspects of the talkwill benefit local deacons with
food for thought, even withinspiration that comes from
thinking outside the box.
We urge you to value yourselffor the resources you'll hear
about in this episode.
As always, we welcome yourideas and feedback and we hope
that your work is blessed by thecontent that you hear.
(00:57):
Now let's get into this nextepisode.
Tim Hopper (01:00):
Thank you, brothers, for having me here.
This is my second time atPresbyterian Diaconal Summit,
and the previous one I was noton the CDM, so I greatly
benefited from the previous onein 2019, and I've been glad to
be a part of helping prepare it.
This time I'm here reallyfundamentally because I love
(01:22):
Christ's church and I'm sograteful that he's called me to
be a part of it.
And because I love Christ'schurch, I love the government
that he's established for hischurch and I love the offices
that he's ordained for hischurch and, as a result, I love
deacons and I've been privilegedto be a deacon for 10 years now
(01:43):
.
But being a deacon doesn'tstand just on its own, but it is
part of being part of Christ'schurch and being part of the
body and being part of whatChrist has established for us,
and I think it's good that wehave Presbyterians and
denominational committees toserve in these ways.
(02:03):
But ultimately, christ hasn'testablished and ordained these
committees, but he's given useach our own offices and the
governments of our owncongregations, and I think we
need to remember that that's ourgreatest calling that we've
been given and, as a result, Ithink we have an opportunity, as
(02:24):
members of our variouscommittees to serve and build up
our local churches and localdiaconates, and that's what I'm
here to help try to share withyou how you might do that
through your PresbyterianDiaconal Committee.
We live in an era that is, Ithink, in our Reformed churches,
(02:48):
in the OPC and our sisterdenominations, we have strong
emphasis on diaconates on thewhole, I think, more than has
been true at times historically,and I think that's a great
thing for us to look to and begrateful for.
There have been eras where thediaconates really languished in
the 19th century.
That happened significantly inScotland and in the US.
But I think then ouropportunity is to just you know,
(03:10):
have the momentum that'salready started and be able to
run with it and push it forward,and that's a good opportunity
for us.
I often, when I talk aboutdiaconal things, like to share
this quote from a SouthernPresbyterian named RC Reid, who
wrote for Union SeminaryMagazine in 1903 about
diaconates and the good thatthey can bring.
(03:31):
He says To avoid frictionbetween members, to promote
happy pastorates, to develop thegrace of liberality, nothing is
more important than a gooddeacon, one who can be patient,
one who can smile atunreasonable people and speak a
soft word to turn away wrath,one who is willing to give time
(03:51):
and take trouble on himself andmake himself all things to all
men in order to promote theinterest of his master's cause.
And I think that's been truefor me in my own experience.
There is an opportunity fordiaconates, among other things,
to promote peace and happinessin the congregation and that
(04:21):
inevitably by the nature of ifthere's conflict, the session
often is the one kind of indisagreement with people and
deacons have an opportunity topromote peace in the
congregation through those times.
And I think there is to somedegree an analogy that our
presbytery diaconal committeeshave the opportunity to promote
(04:43):
peace and unity across ourpresbyteries.
I know the Presbytery of theSoutheast is the only presbytery
that's had any kind of conflictin recent years, but we have,
and it's an opportunity for usas a committee to show the love
of the presbytery to eachcongregation, even, as Mike
(05:04):
alluded to earlier, love of thepresbytery to each congregation,
even, as Mike alluded toearlier, even at times,
ministers who are underdiscipline, to show that their
church, their regional church,still loves them even in those
circumstances.
So our proposed mandate thatDavid went over includes this
statement that presbyterydiaconal committees are to
promote, encourage andcoordinate diaconal work in the
presbytery, the Presbytery ofthe Southeast.
(05:26):
We have similar language in ourstanding rules.
Our standing rules, presbyteryDiaconal Committee is fairly
similar to what is in theproposed mandate.
I'm actually going to give oneof the reports from the
Presbytery Diaconal Committeeand share from a slightly
different angle.
But I have the privilege I'vechaired this committee for a
(05:49):
long time now, for I think forseven years but had the
privilege of really inheritingwhat the previous chairman was
able to establish, really kindof recreating what our
Presbyterian Diaconal Committeedoes.
Little short guy, guy funnyaccent named Matt Holst.
He's now my pastor.
He wasn't at the time but hereally reshaped what our
(06:12):
committee has done and I wasreally able to pick up what he
had established and run with it.
So why do our diaconates needpromotion and encouragement and
coordination?
Well, these things have alreadybeen alluded to, I think, in
(06:36):
maybe every talk.
But just to give you a sense ofwhere the Presbytery of the
Southeast is, we have, I believe, 32 congregations or mission
works, I think 23 congregationsand nine mission works.
Twelve of those mission worksor congregations have no deacons
, so a third of thecongregations, three of them
(06:57):
have solo deacons, which is itsown significant challenge.
Some have aging deacons youknow we've had men in their 80s
still serving at times.
Some have rookie deacons whomight not have experienced
deacons around them.
Some have pastors in sessionswho don't know how to train and
(07:19):
equip their deacons, and ourdeacons don't have a natural
system built in where they'reseeing deacons from other
churches, as David talked aboutcoming to a summit and meeting
the guy from 20 miles away.
Deacons don't have somethinglike presbytery where they're
inevitably getting to know andfellowship with their brothers
(07:42):
from other churches.
So the CDM has done a lot ofwork towards that end through
the summits and it's been agreat opportunity.
I've gotten to know brothersfrom my own presbytery that way,
but there's an opportunity forthe Presbytery Diaconal
Committees to do that as well.
I really started to see this in2015, our Presbytery Diaconal
(08:03):
Committee so I'd been a deaconfor two years our Presbytery
Diaconal Committee organized aconference that was held at
what's now Resurrection OBC inMatthews, north Carolina, and it
just never really occurred tome to think about diaconal work
in a broader, connectional,presbyterian way prior to that
event.
David, I think you were therespeaking.
(08:24):
That was the first time we metDavid and that led to, I guess,
six months later I ended up onthe Presbyterian Diaconal
Committee.
So some things that you mightbe able to do.
And you know, for those whohave said, you know our
committee is very new, we'reonly just getting started.
Don't take this as you have togo home and implement all these
things in the next year.
(08:44):
You can't do that.
You don't need to burdenyourself with that.
Just think about some things.
Write down a couple things thatyou want to try to implement
and maybe, you know, try to keepyour notes so that you can come
back in a couple of years andlook at them and see what else
can we add.
But I'm going to go throughsome things that we've done as
well as some things we'vethought about.
If people have questions alongthe way, I'm happy for you to
(09:07):
interrupt and I'll answer themas I can.
But we I'm interested in whatothers are doing as well, what
others are wondering about.
So if you have questions, youcan ask.
I think one thing you canactually let me also say I
didn't make any slides oranything, but I'm happy to clean
up my notes a little bit andshare it If that's useful to
(09:28):
people you can.
You can let me know or letDavid know and we can email
those out if you're not able towrite things down.
But so first I think one thingyou can do as a Presbytery
Diaconal Committee is to thinkabout how to promote Committee
on Diaconal Ministries resourcesthroughout your presbytery.
We do a lot through Trish, ourextraordinary communications
(09:51):
coordinator, who's here, andTrish is the one who is putting
together the Mercy Minute andthe other emails that are going
out from the CDM.
So people are seeing thosethings.
But you know it's easy forpeople to to overlook emails and
you know you, as you know, youcan tell people things multiple
times and they still don't knowabout them.
(10:12):
So we have things like thediaconal summits that happen
every few years.
The CDM makes an effort to getpeople there, but you can pick
up the phone and call deacons inyour presbytery or whatever
efforts you can make to say, hey, are you guys going to be able
to come to this summit?
The CDM is there to serve thePDCs as much as the PDCs are
(10:37):
there to serve the localcongregations, and we want to
get your men to the summits.
There's also on the website thesummit archives.
There's a lot of questions frompeople at times of do we have
materials on diaconal training,like that's?
One of the better resources wehave at the moment is we have
video and audio of, I believe,all of the summits are all on
(11:03):
the CDM website and those aregood resources.
If people are asking you whatthings are there, send their
deacons.
I think, especially this lastsummit last summer, 2022,
watching through those videoswould be a great resource in
terms of training.
There's the Reform Deaconpodcast.
Again, trish, ourcommunications coordinator, has
(11:25):
helped make that happen and Ithink it's turned out extremely
well.
The content that we'reproducing is something that
isn't coming from anywhere elseand we're, lord willing, going
to continue to do that.
I think our list of ideas ispretty endless at this point.
So promote that to the men inyour presbytery.
I've thought thought about andwe haven't really done this yet
(11:45):
maybe making some kind ofpresbytery wide newsletter.
Even thought about making justlike a paper, one that you send
out, like just a print, a sheetback in front.
We have 60 deacons, you knowstuff envelopes twice a year and
send it out and just, you know,include information about the
cdm and different resources andalso the CDM tries to promote
(12:08):
this as much as we can, butletting local diaconates know
that the CDM has financialresources, among other things,
that we can help localcongregations with if they are
unable to meet financial needs.
And you know as much as werepeat that not everyone's going
to know we're always having newdeacons, so just put that
available in front of people.
(12:29):
A topic that's come up quiteregularly has been maintaining a
diaconal registry.
This was something that ourbylaws required us to do when I
took over as chairman but hadnot been updated for a while.
So I have taken that effort.
Several people people mentionedthis already, but it is a
really good place to start For anumber of reasons.
(12:51):
You have to.
You know you can't just do itonce.
You have to keep pestering yourlocal pastors or clerks of
sessions to get those detailsupdated, but it's.
It's been really fruitful forus.
We have ours in a spreadsheetyou can do this with Google
Sheets and other tools where youcan then just share the link.
(13:11):
And we have a privatepresbytery website that
presbyters can go accessinformation, and there's a link
there to the view of thespreadsheet so that they can go
access that at any time with themost up-to-date information.
We make that available.
Then I also send it outperiodically to our diagonals as
(13:32):
well.
That's a worthwhile effort.
So for those of you who havebeen working on it, keep at it.
Something else that I've reallytried to do for our presbytery
is just making myself availableand known to the people in our
presbytery, particularly theofficers of our presbytery.
(13:53):
Again, something that's come upseveral times already is this
topic of presenting atpresbytery.
Our presbytery bylaws requireour committee to report on our
financial expenses to thepresbytery, so every presbytery
docket includes the diaconalcommittee presenting there.
(14:16):
I have made a point as chairmanto try to be at every
presbytery meeting that I can,and my work is usually flexible
enough that I've been able to dothat Partially to give that
presentation, which is oftenfive minutes out of a lengthy
day and a half long presbyterymeeting.
But I want the men of ourpresbytery to know who I am and
(14:38):
what the Presbytery DiaconalCommittee is and what it can
offer to their congregations,because when the time comes they
have a need that extends beyondtheir congregation.
I want them to think of us andremember us.
So often quite a bit of ourreport is me saying the same
things every meeting twice ayear.
We're here, we're available.
(14:59):
Here's the names of everyone onthe committee.
Here's our phone numbers.
This is what we can offer and Ithink that's paid off when
people do know me and know myname and know who's on our
committee and what we can do forthem.
One session asked me a coupleyears ago to come talk with
(15:21):
their deacons in training.
It was a really greatopportunity.
I gave like a more formalpresentation and then we just
had a meal.
I guess we did it on Sundaymorning before worship and then
we had a meal after worship.
The deacons and their wives orthe deacons in training and
their wives were able to justcome talk with me and ask me
questions, and that's becausethis minister knew me from
(15:42):
Presbytery.
So you need again just to bereminding the presbyters and who
will also be able to talk totheir deacons that your
Presbytery Diaconal Committeehas the capacity to help with
financial things as they come upand the church isn't able to
meet.
And, as you have heard, even ifyour presbytery can't always
(16:06):
help, the CDM may be able tohelp.
You have heard, even if yourpresbytery can't always help,
the CDM may be able to help.
Our presbytery has been tryingto switch also to having
requiring committees to havewritten reports, which is
something I'd wanted to do for awhile, but been more diligent
about it in the past couple ofyears.
So I have a written report thatyou know, similar to David,
(16:26):
describing the Presbytery ofPhiladelphia meetings, going
through their basically theirresponsibilities from the
standing rules, our report.
I try to cover all thedifferent things that our
Presbytery standing rulesrequire us to do and report on
those, as there's things toshare.
I also had the idea in thespring well, we should also just
(16:47):
be, just now that we have awritten report, be sharing that
with our deacons.
So I now, because I have thedirectory and have email
addresses for people, share thatpresbytery report with the
deacons of the presbytery.
There may be make some smallmodifications, but for the most
part it's the same as what'sshared with the presbytery.
(17:09):
But I think my final thing onmaking yourself available and
known to the Presbytery is thenyou need to be responsive when
people are then coming to youwith a request.
You can't just let an email sitin your inbox for a week or two
weeks before you get back tosomebody, even if you don't have
something to say right away,you need to let people know.
Hey, I've seen your request.
Maybe you have to put togethera meeting of the committee on,
(17:30):
you know, a conference callbefore you discuss or whatever.
But you need to be responsiveto people or they're not going
to bother to try again.
I think this topic has been abig one for me and I know not
every deacon if your chairman'sa deacon, or even a ruling elder
maybe is able to attend everypresbytery meeting.
(17:50):
Our presbytery has enabled meto receive the financial support
from the travel fund of thepresbytery to come to presbytery
meetings, which helps.
But even if your chairman can'tbe there, have somebody else
report.
You really do need to bereporting to your presbytery.
Okay, another one again.
(18:13):
People have alluded to a lot ofthese ideas already, but hosting
a diaconal conference to yourpresbytery for your presbytery.
We've aspired to this.
The first one I know of in ourpresbytery was the one I was at
in 2015.
I'm not sure if one happenedprior to that, but we did one
again in 2018, hosted at mychurch, and we had I don't know,
(18:37):
20 or 30 guys from thepresbytery come out to that
Great time of fellowship.
I think maybe we met Fridaynight and then Saturday through
lunch or something, so the guyscan get home for church.
Our presbytery has a 10 or 12hour drive all the way across
the presbytery and we're off toone side so it's far for some
(18:58):
people, but we had people fromall over attend.
We invited a guest speaker thispast one, reverend Nick Wilborn,
who you may have heard on theReformed Deacon podcast fairly
recently, a PCA minister inTennessee who loves the
diaconate.
He's a church historian.
He loves the history of thediaconate but very practical
loves the diaconate.
(19:19):
Those talks from him areactually on.
I think they're on the CDMwebsite.
They're also on Shiloh'swebsite, my Congregation's web,
sermon Audio.
This doesn't have to beexpensive.
We did it for under $2,000.
I can't remember exactly.
My local church was able tochip in some for that.
The CDM in the past has hadfunds for first-time conferences
(19:41):
.
Is that still the case?
The Presbytery is having aconference for the first time.
I know we also made a requestthis time from not the first
time and the CDM was able tohelp a little bit.
But you can at least ask.
Talk to David if funds are anissue, but it doesn't have to be
that expensive Deacons havepretty low expectations.
So, it's nice and we alsoinvited ministers and elders to
(20:05):
that as well, which I think inany as know, as we do for the
National Diaconal Summit,ministers and elders would be
benefiting from this.
We didn't have many turn out,but I would encourage you to do
that If you just need ideas forspeakers, or you know, I think
there are men from the CDM,david and others who would be
willing to speak.
(20:26):
You know, come talk to us, talkto David.
It's a really nice time and agood opportunity to get to know
men.
One thing we've thought aboutyou know we have a big
presbytery and I realize we'remaybe not even in the top half
of in times of size ofpresbyteries, but the Presbytery
of the Southeast is a bigpresbytery.
(20:47):
We've talked about maybe,instead of having these
presbytery-wide things, can wedo some smaller, more regional
things and we can do somethinglike in Raleigh or Charlotte and
something in Atlanta and haveeverybody, almost everybody,
within a three or four-hourdrive instead of maybe a
seven-hour drive.
That's not something we've doneyet, but it's something we've
(21:15):
discussed quite a bit at varioustimes.
This is all since I've been onthe committee.
You know we had covid whichthrew us for a loop we're
starting to talk about planninga third conference.
I've also my wife's had fourkids since I've been chairman of
the committee, so there's beena lot for me, but we have
aspirations to be able tocontinue this in the future.
Just briefly, if anybody who'snot any, we have nine chairmen
(21:36):
reporting on your Presbyteriancommittees.
If there's anybody maybe who'snot going to be reporting has
had a conference that's beenvery successful, that you'd like
to share anything about or anyideas on hosting a conference.
Well, it's really not rocketscience.
I mean you can reserve a blockof hotel rooms, see if some
ladies from the church will bewilling to coordinate in feeding
(21:58):
people.
Have some speakers, andspeakers don't need to be fancy,
they can be your pastor andmaybe a couple deacons, but it's
worthwhile time.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
Alternatives to conferences In other words, he
can gather in your general topic.
Tim Hopper (22:19):
Yeah, so David's asking if I'm talking about
gatherings kind of, besidesconferences.
I don't have a lot to say tothat, because we haven't been
able to do that.
Yeah, has anybody had somethingbeyond a conference, just kind
of a fellowship time, or maybethe president of philadelphia?
While you're bringing it up,the president of philadelphia I
(22:39):
saw uh, in our last conference,we had david from top.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
It was awesome.
Our next conference, uh, we'reactually planning a blue
simulation put on by the feedbank in our area, and so we're
going to have a bunch of vegansgo through what it's like to be
poor and hungry.
So that was put up by one ofour committee members.
We're all really excited aboutit.
So maybe something like that,you know, keep in mind.
Tim Hopper (23:04):
I went to grad school for poverty simulations.
Speaker 6 (23:07):
I've had enough of that I have never heard this
done before, but I think we needto begin to think about our
wives.
They are the greatest asset wehave.
We've never talked, at leastthat I know of in 25 years,
about the deacon's wives andtheir roles in hospitality and
(23:29):
ministry and service and helpingus to see and understand the
needs these women need to beencouraged.
Can we do something special forthem, to show them what they
need?
Tim Hopper (23:45):
Yeah, I think that's not something our present jury
has taken up at all, but I thinkthat's a great question, Bob.
Speaker 5 (23:54):
But, Bob, you can talk about what you guys do as a
fellowship.
Speaker 6 (23:58):
We've done everything .
I think We've had fire cues,we've had conferences of all
ages and sizes.
The problem we have is distance, david, I wish we were closer
together.
It would change everything.
But we've done this for many,for several decades, and the
reality is is that we are toofar distant for anyone to come.
(24:21):
The only way we're going to getpeople is if we go to the site
that we're interested inconnecting with and do it there,
to the site that we'reinterested in connecting with
and do it there.
We've done everything.
Zoom has gotten us a long wayand getting quality speakers to
talk about pertinent issues.
I've already said it, but it'schanged at least part of the
(24:42):
Presbytery's view of how weminister and how we encourage
and promote in the Presbytery.
At that point we talk aboutwhat's coming up, what we're
doing, we communicate at thattime with our churches and then
we make sure we have at leastone time of prayer and
fellowship where we're reallyconnecting with our deacons and
(25:02):
you can't pull people togetherthan trying other things.
Maybe not in Zoom, trysomething else Makes nothing
work.
The one good thing about COVIDwas even Scott Schallenberger
learned Maybe not in Zoom, trysomething else Makes nothing
work.
Tim Hopper (25:10):
The one good thing about COVID was even Scott
Schallenberger learned how touse Zoom.
We can see his face when wehave PDC meetings now, just
kidding.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Oh, go ahead.
I was just going to say thatthat's a good way to break into
one of the presbyteries or startnow meeting together.
Instead of having this bigconcept of uh something, start
with a general gathering centrallocation.
If you have a big presbytery, avfw or something on good rent
(25:41):
and um you know, get everybodyinvolved and uh, just the
administering of physicalpresence will build up the
committee.
Tim Hopper (25:50):
All right, a few more things here.
Disaster response is somethingthat we're going to have a whole
talk on in a minute, so I'm notgoing to try to step on their
toes, but our PresbyteryDiaconal Committee should be
really taking the lead on this.
This was a lesson learned in.
Our Presbytery DiaconalCommittee should be really
taking the lead on this.
This was a lesson learned inour presbytery In 2011,.
(26:12):
We had the bad tornadoes hitAlabama and then also some up in
Virginia and church inChilhowee, virginia, had
significant damage to propertiesof people in that church, and
this was before my time on thecommittee, but our Presbyterian
Diaconal Committee was totallyunprepared to enable any kind of
(26:35):
response to that.
My understanding is HankBelfield, who's the minister
there now the state clerk of theOPC as well ended up.
That responsibility ended upfalling on Hank to coordinate
the response, which just isn'tthe way you know it should be,
and that was, I think, aneye-opener for our Presbytery
Diaconal Committee at the timeto start to be prepared for
(26:58):
responding, kind of like Katrina, as we heard about yesterday.
The disaster response effortshave undoubtedly unified and
strengthened.
Our presbytery Men have beenable to work together through
response to hurricanes and nowto NEON recently.
These efforts have been awitness in those congregations.
(27:20):
I'm sure Seth is going to share.
Seth Long from NEON is going toshare how people in their
church who are totally new toPresbyterianism just had their
eyes open to see people comingfrom all over the country to
come and help them in littleNeon, kentucky that nobody's
heard of other than the OPchurch being there.
So you know there are differentcircumstances, as we've heard.
(27:46):
In different places you havedifferent risks.
Our committee has largelyfocused on preparedness for
responding to hurricanes.
That's our biggest threat inthe Southeast, as we experienced
in 2019, I think, damage tocongregations.
But because we have thisregistry, because we have the
(28:09):
one and only Mike Coy, we'realso ready for something else
that hits.
So as we pay attention to thenews, if we hear about a big
storm going through somewhere,flooding different incidents,
our committee tries the next dayto be in touch with pastors or
(28:31):
deacons from those localcongregations and say, hey, was
your church impacted?
Was anyone from yourcongregation impacted?
One of the things we do withour directory, our deacon
directory, is we assign one ofour five committee members to
each congregation within thepresbytery.
So that's kind of be to be themain point of contact.
So ideally you know that personis going to contact the church
(28:55):
in the area that something mighthave happened.
No, also in this disasterresponse, something you're going
to hear about this as well.
You know the committee on theicon ministries and David, as
disaster response coordinatorfor the OPC, are ready to assist
in this.
Mike has more ideas than youcould ever manage on how to be
(29:15):
prepared here.
If you want to talk to Mike, hewould be happy to talk to you
about it.
So you know, I think everybodyhas some kind of possible risks,
whether flooding, hurricanes,earthquakes, tornadoes, storms.
It should be your PresbyterianDiaconal Committee at least
(29:36):
being the first response outsideof the local congregation when
those kinds of things happen.
And it's going to mean a lot toyour local deacons to hear from
somebody on their PresbyterianDiakon committee and realize
they were paying attention toyou, they knew where you lived,
they knew in the song the newsof the storm hit.
It's going to be anencouragement.
(29:56):
So we'll hear more about thatin this afternoon, I think.
Similarly, just being prepared,and people have been talking
about being proactive.
I've already talked about beingresponsive, but just do you
have you know, to some degree.
I think a lot of diaconal workis reactive, in that we don't
just have ongoing things oftenwe're just waiting to some
(30:18):
extent for things to happen.
But you just need to beprepared for those things to
happen and your committee, forexample, being prepared for
financial requests that come.
Do you know how your committeeis going to process that, think
about that, potentially fund it,handle it.
You need to just think throughbeing ready for those situations
.
All right, a few more littlethings here Before I wrap up.
(30:44):
Something that's been on my mindhas been engaging our local
deacons with retired ministersand their widows.
Hopefully everyone's doingcalls on behalf of the Obadiah
Fund.
There are also other ministerswho aren't part is to keep an
(31:10):
eye on these retired ministersand we do that and it's a great
encouragement to do that.
I also want to see our localcongregations, and particularly
local deacons, engaged withthese retired ministers and
making sure that the deacons areencouraging and supporting them
.
I don't know exactly how we dothat.
The Presbyterian of theSoutheast has a large number of
retired ministers probably morepeople retiring to North
(31:32):
Carolina than North Dakota butthere are at times, for example,
retired ministers who areliving maybe not near an OP
church and they're in the PCAand maybe are unknown to local
deacons or living.
We have several who live with achild and go to the church with
(31:53):
the child, and this is metalking to myself as well as to
you.
I'm interested in engaging ourlocal deacons, even if it's not
a retired minister, at theircongregation, that if they have
someone in their geographicvicinity just by the nature of
being a retired OP minister, Ithink it's appropriate for our
deacons to at least know themand take them out to lunch once
(32:15):
a year or something and be intouch with them.
So it's just something to thinkabout how to encourage your
local deacons to do that,something that came up in the
survey we did.
I know the Presbytery ofPhiladelphia has done some joint
work days at churches onbuilding projects and I think
somebody else alluded to thatanother presbytery today.
That's not something we'vepursued, but I think it's a
(32:38):
great opportunity.
I mean, as you know, that'ssuch a good opportunity for
fellowship If you get to justwork beside somebody and chat
with them while you work onsomething.
I think even in geographicallyspread presbyteries there's
potential there.
You know, you don't have tonecessarily get somebody from
500 miles away, but somebodymight be willing to drive a
couple hours to spend a Saturdayworking on a project.
(32:59):
I think that's a great way fordeacons and congregations to get
to know one another infellowship, something that I
wish I had not gone seven yearswithout ever thinking of.
But Patrick Whitmore, where areyou, patrick?
(33:19):
Patrick from the PresbyterianMid-Atlantic said in the survey
that your deacons at presbyterymeetings try to meet with local
deacons from the church that'shosting presbytery in the area
that's hosting presbytery in thearea that's hosting presbytery.
So I try to attend ourpresbytery meetings and hop
around to differentcongregations and that's never
crossed my mind.
But I think that's a great ideafor your presbytery diaconal
committee, as you're able to tryto meet with those deacons and
(33:42):
understand their needs, makesure they're aware of your
committee.
I think that's really wise.
Anything to add to that?
Yeah, I think that's a greatpractice and something I'd like
to think about doing.
Very good idea.
A couple of things that I'm kindof thinking through that I
don't know the answers to that.
(34:03):
I'd like our presbytery to bemore engaged with.
One is what we just heard talkon is how can we help Mission
Works, but not just MissionWorks.
We have congregations with nodeacons where that
responsibility according to theBCO falls on the session and
(34:24):
Peter from Concho, arizona, isan elder there and you're part
of your session subcommittee orwhatever on diaconal needs and
that responsibility falls onPeter and they're really trying
to execute on that.
But I think I'm realizing ourcommittee has maybe dropped the
ball to some extent, in that wehave this deacon registry and I
(34:45):
even keep track of thecongregations that don't have
deacons in that registry.
But when there's no phonenumbers to call, it leaves a
little bit of a gap and I thinkprobably we need to be at least
keeping one contact at all thosecongregations that don't have
deacons you know Mission Worksparticularly, but we have other
congregations as well andkeeping this contact open with
(35:08):
someone on the session and beingable to check in with them as
there are disasters and thingslike that, but also just being
able to ask is your church beingable to serve diaconal needs
even without deacons?
And I think there's more for usto do, for my committee to be
doing there.
A similar issue that's on mymind as a PDC and CDM member.
(35:32):
I'm the chairman of thesubcommittee of the CDM on
diaconal training.
David says one of the mainrequests he gets from
congregation is how can we traindeacons?
That's something the CDM isthinking through, something as a
Presbyterian Diaconal CommitteeI like to try to have more for
(35:53):
people.
I think if pastors are gettinganything about deacons in
seminary, it's often a verysmall amount.
Some pastors are fortunate tohave diaconal experience before
becoming ministers, but I thinkmany pastors don't have a great
sense of how to train deacons ismy impression.
(36:14):
So that's on my mind.
If other people are thinkingabout that, we'd love to talk
about that.
David and I and others on thediaconal training subcommittee
are very interested in thattopic.
But within your presbytery, Ithink if you're moving forward
as a committee and being knownto the committee, you're going
(36:35):
to get this question.
You're going to go to apresbytery meeting and a new
pastor is going to grab you andsay how do I train deacons?
I think it was on theMortification of Spend podcast
that David and I just did.
My number one recommendation topeople is go get the Van Damme
book the Deacon we interviewedhim on the podcast as well,
(36:56):
cornelius Van Damme.
That's a really goodcomprehensive book and I think
going through that is a greatway to do training.
But yeah, I guess what I'mencouraging you to is have, if
somebody comes and asks you thatquestion, have some kind of
answer, even if it's not atotally satisfactory answer,
point them to CDM, opccdmorg.
(37:17):
As we've already said, thereare a lot of good resources
there.
Okay, let me see if I hadanything else I wanted to cover.
I think I'm about at the end.
Let me see if I had anythingelse I wanted to cover.
I think I'm about at the end.
No, I think that's about at theend of my Any questions for me
or any insight others have onthis topic, stuart.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
The question I had is so at presbytery meetings, do
you have any more of a role thanreading the report?
Tim Hopper (37:42):
At presbytery meetings, do I have any more of
a role than reading the report?
I don't, for it.
At Presbyterian meetings, do Ihave any more of a role than
reading the report?
I don't.
I basically am given privilegesof the floor to the extent of
my presentation.
So I mostly sit in the back andtwiddle my thumbs, but I like
to be there.
(38:03):
I try to be there the wholetime because I want to be
available to people at breaksand various things.
People want to come chat withme.
It's also an opportunitysometimes for us to talk with
new ministers without a callthat we're working with.
But yeah, I've never beencalled upon for anything further
.
Yes, sir.
Speaker 5 (38:18):
Most presidents of church, most ministers, don't
know that deacons don't havedifferent beliefs.
Ministers don't know thatdeacons know different things
and the reason why we don't havesomeone who's new to our church
become a deacon is because youhave to know and trust this
person to actually entrustyourself, to see care from them
(38:41):
right.
So the more that your ministerscan become familiar with you as
deacons serving on mobility anddiacom committees, the more
effective you are going to be inministering to them.
You get to know them, they getto know you.
It's face time right.
So I think it's difficult fordeacons to get to proclutane
(39:02):
obedience and it is a big ask,but if you can do it, I think
it's.
You know that it is a big ask,but if you can do it, I think
it's.
It's hugely valuable.
It's that, it's thatinteraction time and you get a
sense as a deacon.
You're going to get a senseeven in the, in the workings of
the proletarian.
You get a sense of who men are,how they take that type of
thing that's going to inform howyou minister to them when the
(39:25):
time comes at our lastpresbytery meeting a few weeks
ago.
Tim Hopper (39:28):
The meeting went long and the Presbytery Diaconal
Committee report is always thefirst thing that gets cut if
they don't have enough time.
So I wasn't even there.
Jeffrey Carter was going topresent on my behalf and the
report didn't happen.
But they still had the printedreport.
But all that to say, a ministerwho I don't know very well but
(39:48):
I'm Facebook friends with,commented on Facebook missed
seeing you at Presbytery Timwhen I you know we didn't even
have the opportunity to report.
So he hadn't even missed that Iwasn't reporting, but I just
was pleased to see that henoticed that I wasn't there.
I'm very hard, you know, tohard to miss.
But anyway that that wasencouraging to me because that's
(40:12):
the goal that I've had and Irealize not everyone in my work
is allows me to do this, variousthings, but not everyone can do
that but that that was reallyencouraging to me to see a
minister realize that I wasn'tthere and realize, you know,
this committee has a place inthe presbytery.
I'm happy to chat about any ofthis stuff here or in the future
(40:35):
.
David Nakhla (40:36):
Thanks for joining us.
Go to our website,thereformdeaconorg.
There you will find all ourepisodes, program notes and
other helpful resources, andplease make plans to join us
again next month for anotherepisode of the Reformed Deacon
Podcast.
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