September 1, 2024 • 46 mins
In this episode host, Pastor Chris Cashen talks with Elder Jeremy Huntington and Deacon Scott Cormier from Covenant OPC, New Bern, NC to discuss Matthew 15:21-28—where we find Jesus modeling true compassion and how that example can help shape the heart of a deacon.
Chris, Jeremy and Scott look at this passage about a Canaanite woman who comes to Jesus crying for help for her daughter who is demon-possessed. The discussion is focused on the application of this passage as it relates to a deacon's heart.
Referenced in this episode:
- The Deacon by Dr. Cornelis Van Dam
- Listen to The Reformed Deacon podcast's, "Interview with Cornelis Van Dam"
- National Diaconal Summit:
- More resources at OPCCDM.org
You can find all of our episodes at thereformeddeacon.org. Make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast player, so you don't miss an episode. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram for giveaways and more information. Find other resources on OPCCDM.org. Make sure to send us some feedback on your podcast player or ask a diaconal question by going to OPCCDM.org.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Scott Cormier (00:01):
One of the biggest things that is necessary
is preparing the heartbeforehand so that you can
respond in the right way at theright time.
So a lot of times I like to goback and just review what is
important in the office ofdeacon, or, you know, I'll go
back myself and reread throughthe documents that we have and
(00:22):
think about it and meditate uponthese things so that my heart
is ready for those needs.
David Nakhla (00:30):
Welcome to the Reformed Deacon, a casual
conversation with topicsspecifically designed to help
local Reformed Deacons.
There are nearly a thousanddeacons in the OPC alone, so
let's take this opportunity tolearn from and encourage one
another.
We're so glad you could join us.
Let's jump into our nextepisode.
Chris Cashen (00:50):
Welcome to another episode of the Reformed Deacon
Podcast.
My name is Chris Cashin and Iserve as pastor of Trinity
Reformed OPC in Lanham, maryland.
I also serve on the OPC'sCommittee on Diaconal Ministries
and it's my privilege once in awhile to host this podcast.
Today with me are JeremyHuntington and Scott Cormier.
(01:14):
Jeremy is a ruling elder atCovenant OPC in New Bern, north
Carolina.
He grew up in North Dakota, sohe's not a native of North
Carolina.
His father was a Presbyterianminister ending up in the
Orthodox Presbyterian Church.
He was a church planter.
His mother is still a member ofBethel OPC in North Dakota.
(01:35):
Jeremy builds boats in NorthCarolina.
He's been doing that for manyyears now and when he came to
North Carolina he beganattending a mission church there
in New Bern, which became aparticular church which is now
Covenant OPC, and he wasordained as a ruling elder in
(01:56):
September of 2002.
So Jeremy's been serving as anelder for many years a couple of
decades now been serving as anelder for many years a couple of
decades now.
He is also a member of thePresbytery of the Southeast Home
Missions Committee and with hiswife Janine, they have nine
children ranging in ages fromtwo to 20.
It's a busy household, welcome.
Jeremy Huntington (02:17):
Jeremy, thank you.
It's good to see you again,chris, and good to be with you.
Chris Cashen (02:21):
Scott is a deacon at Covenant and New Bern.
He was a Marine and, scott,we're not going to hold that
against you.
I was in the Navy for a fewyears, but you were a Marine for
eight, and so I've got a lot ofrespect for you.
Brother, thank you for serving.
He's married to Adria, withfour boys.
I don't know what are theirages, scott four boys I don't
(02:47):
know what are their ages, scottFifteen down to seven.
Okay, also a busy home.
You're an occupationaltherapist focusing on upper
extremity rehabilitation, andyou were ordained as a deacon in
July of 2018, so you've beenserving for six years now and in
two different churchescurrently at Covenant OPC, but
also at Pilgrim OPC and Bangor,maine.
Welcome, scott.
Scott Cormier (03:08):
Actually the 2018 , I think, was in Maine and I
was actually a deacon here atCovenant OPC for a number of
years, moved up to Maine forabout three years and I was a
deacon up there and then I'vesince moved back down here again
.
Chris Cashen (03:23):
All right, so there are many more years of
being a deacon.
About how many years have youbeen ordained as a deacon?
Scott Cormier (03:29):
I think it was 2008.
I'd have to go back and look atthat.
Chris Cashen (03:32):
All right, we'll take that 2008.
Welcome man.
Today we're going to bediscussing, in broad brush
fashion, the heart of a deacon,and we're going to do that, or
at least try to do that, byconsidering a short portion of
Scripture to see how it's goingto help us think through this
topic of the heart of a deacon.
(03:53):
Now, from time to time on thispodcast, we want to take an
in-depth look at Bible passagesand theological topics to
strengthen a deacon'sunderstanding of and purpose for
his office.
In other words, we plan toinvite some of our guests to
open up Scripture or doctrinaltopics which have a particular
application to the work and thecharacter, the qualities of a
(04:16):
Reformed deacon.
In today's podcast, we're goingto be taking a look at Matthew
15, verses 21 through 28.
This is about the Canaanitewoman who comes to Jesus crying
for help for her daughter who isdemon-possessed.
Most of our discussion is goingto be focused on the
application of this passage asit relates to a deacon's heart,
(04:38):
and so we have the two men here,jeremy and Scott, who have been
serving the church for manyyears, to help us walk through
this passage with an eye towardthe work of a deacon,
particularly with regard to adeacon's heart.
Well, let's begin.
I'm going to read this portionof Scripture, matthew 15,
(04:58):
beginning at verse 21,.
And this was from the EnglishStandard Version.
Let's give attention to God'sholy word from the English
Standard Version.
Let's give attention to God'sholy word.
And Jesus went away from thereand withdrew to the district of
Tyre and Sidon.
And behold, a Canaanite womanfrom that region came out and
was crying have mercy on me, oLord, son of David.
(05:19):
My daughter is severelyoppressed by a demon.
But he did not answer her aword.
And his disciples came andbegged him, saying Send her away
, for she is crying out after us.
He answered I was sent only tothe lost sheep of the house of
Israel.
(05:39):
But she came and knelt beforehim saying Lord, help me.
But she came and knelt beforehim saying Lord, help me.
And he answered it is not rightto take the children's bread
and throw it to the dogs.
She said, yes, lord.
Yet even the dogs eat thecrumbs that fall from their
master's table.
And Jesus answered her oh,woman, great is your face.
(06:03):
And Jesus answered her oh,woman, great is your faith.
Be it done for you as youdesire.
And her daughter was healedimmediately.
Jeremy, would you pray for usplease?
Jeremy Huntington (06:16):
Yes, I'd be glad to Lord, our God.
We rejoice in the word thatyou've given us.
We rejoice that you are our God.
We rejoice, Father, son andSpirit, that you have revealed
yourself to us in wondrous waysand that we can open your word
and find new meaning, newunderstanding, new revelation,
(06:41):
not because you have createdsomething new, but because you
are continuing to sanctify usand give us greater
understanding.
And so we thank you for yourword and you pray, as we
consider it and discuss it andits application for our lives
and the lives of the offices andespecially the deacons of your
(07:03):
church, that you would continueto work in us.
Greater conformity to your will, but a greater burden and
desire and love for your churchand for Christ himself.
We ask this in Christ's name,amen, amen.
Chris Cashen (07:20):
Thank you.
Thank you Well, brothers, thisis an interesting passage as
Matthew presented.
This event, this interaction,this conversation follows
immediately on the heels ofJesus' interaction with the
Pharisees and scribes regardingceremonial hand washing.
If you remember, they werecomplaining that the disciples
(07:42):
weren't washing their hands andthat was really a ceremonial
washing before they ate.
And then Jesus explains that,well, that's not where sin comes
from.
It's not what goes in but whatcomes out from your heart.
But it's also after thatinteraction between Jesus and
(08:06):
his disciples where he feeds the5,000.
And we see in that passage whereagain the disciples are saying
to Jesus with regard to thepeople send them away.
We don't have enough for themhere.
Just Jesus, send them away.
It's desolate the day's over.
(08:28):
And so there's a bit ofrepetition here as we get to
this interaction with theSeraphim woman, or the Canaanite
woman, where the disciples areonce again coming to Jesus and
actually the text says begginghim send her away.
She's crying out.
Well, jeremy, initially Jesusdoesn't respond but remains
(09:00):
silent.
What was going on?
I know we don't have it in thetext, but was this a lack of
mercy by Jesus?
Jeremy Huntington (09:06):
well, the obvious, the obvious answer is
that it's not a lack of mercy injesus, and that's obvious just
from just from the whole recordof scripture.
But uh, I I think that, uh,especially as you read on, and
in that chapter we come just afew verses later, we've had, in
just previous chapter, thefeeding of the 5,000 in
Matthew's record.
(09:27):
Then we come to the feeding ofthe 4,000, and Jesus tells his
disciples, he calls them to himand says I have compassion on
this multitude.
So it's obviously not a lack ofmercy on the part of Christ,
(09:47):
see, on the part of Christ.
As to what's going on, it'sinteresting because you're
asking a question from anattitude, from a perspective
that most commentators don'tactually even contemplate this
passage.
But there's a great deal ofdiscussion as to why Jesus was
silent here.
I think that there are times,when it comes to the disciples,
that it's apparent that he'sdesirous of seeing their
(10:08):
response, and their responseimmediately was to urge him I'm
using the New King James, butthey urge him to send her away.
And it's that urgency withwhich—and again, it's
interesting in Matthew's recordwe have this sandwich between
(10:29):
the feeding of the 5,000 and thefeeding of the 4,000, where at
the feeding of the 5,000, thedisciples want to send them away
to go take care of their needs.
You know, we don't haveanything to feed them, send them
away.
They're neat.
We don't have anything to feedthem, send them away.
They obviously don't haveanything with which to provide
an answer to the request of thisCanaanite woman.
(10:50):
So their immediate response iswhat it was with the 5,000, send
her away.
Send them away.
And they haven't learned fromthe feeding of the 5,000, the
capacity that Christ has torespond with compassion and
mercy.
And so it may very well be thatChrist is trying to stir up in
(11:13):
them recollection of that workthat he did with the feeding of
the 5,000, when their immediateresponse was something similar
to this send them away.
We don't have the capacity toprovide for their needs, we
don't have the capacity to carefor them.
Send them away.
And they haven't learned thatlesson.
They didn't take that lesson toheart from the feeding of the
(11:34):
5,000.
And I can't say I necessarilyblame them.
We have the advantage ofreading this record and being
critical because of how it'spresented to us, but it's hard
to be confronted with situationsand your own immediate capacity
to answer the problem, to notanswer in the way that the
(11:57):
disciples answered this.
Chris Cashen (12:00):
So yeah, very good .
Where might we go in Scriptureif we're wondering, you know,
was Jesus not being—where mightwe go in Scripture to say, of
course, jesus is merciful.
Scripture has opened that up tous and we need to bring some
other passages in to maybe notreassure ourselves but to say,
(12:23):
yeah, we need to put thatguardrail up here that Jesus is
merciful Brothers.
Where might we go in Scriptureto find those kinds of texts
which would put up thatguardrail for us Jesus is
merciful.
Jeremy Huntington (12:36):
Well, I think that we can see it from the
whole of Scripture.
You know, even from the verybeginning of Genesis when man
falls, god doesn't leave himwithout hope, but he promises
one to save and redeem.
We have the record of God'swork preserving Israel
(12:59):
throughout their wildernesswanderings wilderness wanderings
.
But we come to Isaiah and thosegreat passages of Isaiah
picturing Christ and thesuffering servant and what he's
going to do.
And then in the New Testamentwe have it opened up to us that
Christ is the fulfillment ofthose promises.
My kids know we're coming tothe end of summer.
(13:20):
They're getting geared up forthe next year of school.
My least favorite verse atgraduation time is Jeremiah 29,
11.
Every Christian and homeschoolgraduate is overwhelmed with
cards that say I know what Ihave planned for you.
You know and so they all walkaway with this great passage
(13:42):
from Jeremiah that God has greatplans to prosper us.
Except that's not really thecontext.
Right, I'm about to send youinto 70 years of captivity.
It would be terrible, it wouldbe harsh, but I've got a great
plan for your life.
He says to the Jews I'm goingto restore you.
And so we see that, though.
(14:03):
Now I'm bringing that to a realapplication.
We see that borne out, thoughin that applicable way to the
church.
The trials that God brings usthrough are, for our purpose,
right.
And then we tie that in withPaul's letter to the Romans All
things work together for thegood of those called according
to his purpose.
(14:24):
All things work together forthe good of those called
according to his purpose.
And so when you take the wholerecord of scripture, we tie it
all together from the beginningto the end, and we see that
Christ is that fulfillment ofthe promises that we have from
the fall of man through theredemption and the restoration.
He's the Messiah, the promisedone that we have in Isaiah, and
so all of these promises arefulfilled in Christ.
(14:44):
And so you can't come to aplace and say Christ is without
mercy, especially when you seethe charges set against Israel
and Judah.
And yet the promises of theMessiah and the suffering
servant and you know to bringthat in even to the Canaanite
woman the promises of Messiah inIsaiah are not just a
(15:06):
restoration of Israel, but thatthis promise and the fulfillment
and the restoration will be tothe ends of the earth and he's
going to bring in the Gentilesand build his kingdom from the
nations.
And so here we can tie that inhere as well with the Canaanite
woman.
Right, send her away.
(15:27):
He says to her, you know, butwhat have I to do with you?
I'm here for the sheep, I'mhere for the lost children of
God.
And she says but you know, havemercy on me, I'll take it from.
And he responds to her thatit's her faith, right, so it's
(15:49):
not a different means, it's nota different method of
incorporation, but it's the samefaith that brings her in, which
we'll see then in Acts beingfulfilled, and then through the
missionary journeys of theapostles fulfilled and then
through the missionary journeysof the apostles.
Chris Cashen (16:10):
I appreciate your going to the Old Testament first
and bringing us through that tothe New, and I also appreciate
your reference to Romans 8, forat the end of that chapter we
see that there's nothing,nothing can separate us from the
love of God in Christ, whichobviously establishes His mercy.
That's unbreakable.
Well, scott, this was as far asMatthew records the event.
(16:33):
The second time that Jesus'disciples respond in this way
send them or her away We've justestablished that Jesus is a
merciful God-man.
What may have been going on inthe hearts of the disciples
(16:54):
during these moments?
Now, I know we don't have apicture, we don't have a verse
that says, okay, here's what washappening, but what do you
think what might have been goingon in their hearts during these
moments?
Not only just the 5,000 to befed, but now very particularly
with regard to this Canaanitewoman.
Scott Cormier (17:16):
Well, I think you know when you're put into this
kind of situation and somethinglike this comes up quickly,
there's just a lot of pressuresgoing on, they're very busy.
In this particular case A lotof needs from within the people
who are surrounding them andoutside, and so that busyness
may be pushing them, causingstress and causing them to not
(17:41):
see the need for them.
Also, they may consider thatthis particular need is beyond
their ability to help and notlooking outside of themselves as
far as how to help with thisparticular need.
They're not yet in the mindsetof looking to Christ to supply
the need to bringing this personto Christ, to speaking to
Christ about this at this pointin their ministry.
(18:04):
Person to Christ, to speakingto Christ about this at this
point in their ministry, and sothat can be a part of it.
Just not thinking, maybethinking about their own
strength, how would I accomplishthis?
I'm not able to accomplish thisand not seeing how it is that,
how they can go to Christ fortheir need.
And you know, I also think, aswe were talking about, they
still have a lot more to learn.
(18:24):
There's a lot of ministry yetto come, a teaching from Christ.
They don't know all there is toknow about Christ.
Later we'll see howstrengthened they are at the
later parts of their ministry,but early on they don't know
that he is to die, that he willrise from the dead.
He hasn't taught them from allthe scriptures and they don't
(18:54):
have the full outpouring of theHoly Spirit to strengthen them
in that particular way that theywill later.
So I think there's a lot of allof that going on and not able
yet to respond to those kinds ofpressures.
Chris Cashen (19:01):
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah, I agree, jesus, but eventhe dogs feed on the crumbs, and
(19:31):
she's suggesting that even thecrumbs will be sufficient for me
, because I know who you are.
Do you see a contrast, scott,between her faith and the faith
of the disciples at this point,scott?
Scott Cormier (19:41):
Well, I do, of course, early on in this
interaction.
She just has this she has astrong need that nobody else can
fulfill and no one has beenable to fulfill up to this point
, and there's only one personwho can fulfill this need that
(20:01):
she has and that's Christ.
This need that she has andthat's Christ.
And so I think this, as Jeremywas saying, this faith is
developed as he draws it out ofher little by little and she's
verbalizing it more and moreclearly and showing the example
of her faith.
But early on there's thisdesperate need that she has
Again, nobody else can supplythe need except for Christ.
(20:24):
So I think that is one thinghere that's a difference between
her and the apostles.
She has a desperate need.
She sees where she can havethat need met and she has to go
to that person in Christ.
And you know, you can't seeinto the disciples' minds and
everything, but often we areused to doing things in our own
(20:44):
strength, our own power.
So they don't quite have thatsame need here that is driving
them to Christ that they see.
In fact they do have a need,but maybe they don't see it
clearly that they need to.
They need him for help in thismatter.
Chris Cashen (21:01):
Yeah, very good.
Well, I think, at least from myperspective, the overall theme
of this passage seems to be thecompassion of Jesus.
This Gentile woman, thisCanaanite, this Seraphim, this
dog, she's seeking it and thedisciples were trying to avoid
(21:23):
it, and yet in the mercy weretrying to avoid it, and yet in
the mercy, the compassion ofJesus, it just shines through
brightly.
Jeremy, do you see in Christ'sresponse the depiction of the
heart of Jesus as recorded byMatthew, set forth here as a
model for certainly allChristians, but in particular
(21:43):
deacons?
Jeremy Huntington (21:50):
all Christians, but in particular
deacons.
Well, certainly, as the one whosets the example for us in the
offices of the church, as thoseare set out by Paul in his
letter to Timothy and in hisletters to Timothy and Titus,
we're not supposed to be makingup our own way.
We're not creating somethingnew and entirely different just
(22:10):
to satisfy our logistical needsand purposes.
But when we take these texts,you know, christ says to her in
the very first I was not sentexcept to the lost sheep of the
house of Israel.
And she says Lord, help me.
And again he's doing this forher benefit.
(22:31):
Her prayers are increasing intheir fervor.
And he responds with great isyour faith, Let it be to you as
you desire.
But then again we come down,just a few verses later, to the
feeding of the 4,000.
And Jesus calls his disciples tohim and says I have compassion
on the multitude right, and soit's this because they've been
(22:52):
with me for three days and havenothing to eat, I don't want to
send them away hungry lest theyfaint on the way.
There's this compassion and thedesire that he has for his
people, and that, then, is thegreat task that the deacon is
supposed to have that over, thatcompassion, that desire for the
people, first the people ofChrist, but remember it's first
(23:14):
the people.
But then that ministry spillsout of the church into the
community, beyond the churchright.
So we begin with the house ofGod and then it extends to those
outside, even in anevangelistic way.
And so we have that sort ofrepresentative for us here,
christ with his compassion forhis sheep, but demonstrating as
(23:34):
well that it's a passion notjust for the sheep who are
already in the house, but forthose whom he's elected, those
who are outside.
And so it certainly sets thatsample for us and picture for
the work of the deacon right Notjust a new office with new
logistical problems to solve,but certainly a fulfillment of
(23:57):
that ministry of Christ.
Chris Cashen (23:59):
Excellent, yeah.
So I want to dig now a littlebit deeper into the deacon's
heart.
I think we've set the table aswe've considered, christ and his
compassion certainly showingforth powerfully in this passage
.
Real question is what followsit, and this is for both of you.
(24:27):
Would you agree that the heartof a deacon begins with a true
saving faith in the Lord Jesus?
Jeremy Huntington (24:32):
Well, yes.
Chris Cashen (24:34):
Okay, good, so here's what I want to get at.
How would you describe thatfaith in Jesus?
Now, I guess what I'm lookingfor is something very particular
.
Not that a deacon has adifferent faith, but, given this
passage, there just doesn'tseem to be any recognition or
(24:54):
acknowledgement by the disciplesthat Jesus could do anything to
help this woman, not even apassing thought that he was able
to or willing.
Do deacons need to know andbelieve that Jesus is able?
I mean, is that part of adeacon's heart?
Jeremy Huntington (25:13):
I think that we must say it certainly must be
part of the deacon's heart.
Paul tells Timothy, concerningthe deacons that they are to
hold fast, that they are to holdthe mystery of the faith with a
pure conscience.
So it's very near the beginningof those qualifications that he
(25:38):
gives hold fast that mystery ofthe faith with a pure
conscience.
And what is that mystery of thefaith if it doesn't include a
belief that god is sovereign,that he is powerful?
This is the heart of the prayerthat that the believer is to
(25:59):
bring.
Why do we pray to god if heisn't sovereign over all things?
And why do we pray to God if heisn't sovereign over all things?
And why do we pray to God if wedon't believe he can't do the
things that we're asking him todo?
And so, you know, the Puritanswere, they were big on prayer
and, for all of their oppositionto foreign prayers, they left
(26:19):
us with many books of writtenprayers, written prayers, but at
the heart of them was thisbelief in God's sovereignty and
his power to do, as Paul saysexceedingly abundantly, above
(26:40):
all that we think or ask.
And so that's certainly part ofthis mystery of the faith that
the deacon is to hold, notbecause, as you said, it's a
different faith, but that's whatPaul is setting forth by the
Spirit of God.
That is required of the deaconsthat they must believe in the
doctrinal standards of, if youwill, the doctrinal standards of
the church, but then reallybelieve in their heart that God
(27:04):
is who he says he is, and thatGod was able to do what he says
he can do, and that he is oftenable to do what we don't believe
he can do.
Chris Cashen (27:14):
Very good.
On this passage we havedescribed for us a mercy seeker
in the Canaanite woman.
She sought mercy actually forherself, because she was
helpless.
She had no way to help herdaughter who was cruelly
demon-possessed.
And then, in contrast, we havethe disciples who wanted to have
(27:38):
earplugs to stop the sound ofher crying out for mercy.
For crying out for mercy, scott, in your many years of diaconal
service, what does a heart ofmercy look like?
How does a deacon hear such acry and respond in mercy?
(28:01):
What does it take within yourheart to respond with compassion
?
Mercy.
Scott Cormier (28:07):
What does it take within your heart to respond
with compassion?
Well, I think one of thebiggest things that is necessary
is preparing the heartbeforehand so that you can
respond in the right way at theright time.
So a lot of times I like to goback and just review what is
important in the office ofdeacon, or I'll go back myself
(28:27):
and reread through the documentsthat we have and think about it
and meditate upon these things,so that my heart is ready for
those needs.
As we've talked about before.
We first look to Christ, and sowe remember that Christ was
always ready to show compassionand we can think on this deeply.
(28:49):
And what did that look like atthe time?
And what does that mean for me?
As he went around and healedevery kind of disease or washed
people's feet or gave them foodor gave them the word, whatever
it might be.
And you know, think on the factthat he came to serve and not
(29:10):
to be served, and that he isinterceding on our behalf and
prepared to strengthen us.
So first it's a looking toChrist, but also I like to go
back to the book of church orderto remind myself, you know,
what is it that is required ofme as a deacon.
What is it that I need tostrive for?
(29:31):
And the opening part of the formof government.
When they talk about what willbe said about a deacon, it
starts off like this the officeof a deacon is based upon the
solicitude and love of Christfor his own people.
So tender is our Lord'sinterest in their temporal needs
that he considers what is doneunto one of the least of his
(29:52):
brethren as done to him.
For he will say to those whohave ministered to his little
ones I was hungry and you gaveme to eat.
I was thirsty and you gave meto drink.
I was a stranger and you tookme in and I was naked and you
clothed me.
I was sick and you visited me,and I was a stranger and you
took me in and I was naked andyou clothed me.
I was sick and you visited meand I was in prison and you came
on to me.
And it goes on from there.
(30:13):
And there's many other goodparts there in that section, but
it helps to get my mind and myheart in the right place for
service.
And also I remember an excellentbook that we've read here and I
know it's been talked about onthe podcast before the deacon,
by cornelius van dam, and one ofthe tasks he talks about there
(30:37):
for the deacon is to safeguardthe communal joy of the
fellowship of believers and, uh,sort of to be a joy detector
and to find out who has needsand to seek to address them, to
lift the burdens off of theirshoulders so that they too can
(30:57):
function according to God'sresponsibilities that he's given
to them, that they can usetheir gifts because the burdens
have been lifted off of theirbacks, they can go to worship on
Sunday with joy and not bedistracted by all the cares of
the world because they've hadthe assistance of the
congregation or of the deacons.
So there's aspects like thatthat get me thinking in the
(31:21):
right way.
Obviously, the means of grace.
I almost feel like you could doa whole podcast on the deacon
and the means of grace.
We were lucky, we're blessed,one year to have a conference
here with Dr Piper fromGreenville Seminary on the means
of grace and all the aspects inthe church and for the believer
(31:41):
and for the church and thingslike that, and so as a deacon,
we need to be in the wordourselves, in prayer, in worship
, praying with others and beingstrengthened by all the means of
grace so that we can do thiswork.
It's a spiritual task.
We have to prepare our heartahead of time and then we can
(32:03):
respond with the right heart.
Our heart ahead of time andthen we can respond with the
right heart.
Also, I think back to the lastsummit that we had and people
may have heard this already.
If not, they may want to go andlisten.
There were very good messagesthat were given, one in
particular by Pastor Ron Pierceon the ministry that deacons
need, and that could be a goodmessage for preparing your heart
(32:25):
for serving in the church.
And also I remember that PastorBill Shishko talked about, had
an excellent talk on deacons,but specifically he mentioned
many books, devotional materialsthat deacons can read and
meditate upon Christ, see how heserved to prepare themselves to
grow in their love for Christand be ready to then serve
(32:48):
others.
And so I think all of thathopefully that answers a little
bit of what you're asking afterthat question, but definitely
preparation and seeking to havethe heart ready ahead of time is
what is neat.
Chris Cashen (33:03):
That's a full answer, Scott.
Thank you, Jeremy.
Is there anything you wouldwant to add to that?
If you were training a newdeacon or a prospective deacon
to anticipate events like thisone, how would you advise him to
prepare his heart for somethinglike this?
Jeremy Huntington (33:18):
Oh, scott's touched on it already.
The first thing is to rememberthat the office of a deacon is a
spiritual office.
We might get caught up in allof the works of mercy, all of
the waiting on tables that thefirst deacons were appointed to
do, but it was for the purposethat the apostles could devote
(33:42):
themselves to prayer andinstruction.
So it is a spiritual office.
It's spiritual for thecongregation, for the recipient
and for the deacon.
And so in the first place, youknow, to considering training
(34:04):
for a deacon place, toconsidering training for a
deacon, there are many men outthere who are gifted to do
things and a deacon needs to getthings done.
So our temptation may beimmediately to say if someone
can get something done, heshould be a deacon, and that
(34:31):
fails that first observationthat it's a spiritual office.
If the deacon again going backto 1 Timothy if a deacon doesn't
hold fast to faith with a pureconscience, and how does he do
that if he's not spending timein the Word and in prayer?
Now, these are the things thatwe tell everyone in our
(34:53):
congregations.
Right, you need to spend yourtime daily in the Word, daily in
prayer, you need to devoteyourselves to these things.
So in one sense it's not anydifferent command than is given
to anybody else in the Church,but to a deacon there's the
special import, and as aminister you know this.
(35:14):
It's not because the ministersalone should read the word and
should seek to understand theword, no, but there's a certain
task that you've been given inyour ordination to divide that
word and make it plain to thecongregation so that they would
understand it.
And so, in a similar way, forthe office of a deacon, reading
the word, spending time inprayer, these are all essential
(35:36):
to them to fulfilling hisministry.
And so that's where we wouldstart, because then, as James
says, if any of you lacks wisdom, pray for it in the Lord, and
God, who gives liberallyally,will give this to you.
And so that's the beginning ofthe deacon's work.
(35:57):
If he's not in the word, ifhe's not in prayer, if he
doesn't have wisdom to discernthe need, then how can he
fulfill the need?
A man who simply does we mayneed men to do, but the deacon
is the one who can then discernthe need.
(36:18):
The woman comes to Christ andthe disciples and says have
mercy on me.
But she had a true need.
She had a real need for mercy,not just and here's part of the
wisdom that the deacons aregoing to need not just somebody
who came to the church to say Iwant a bigger TV, I don't have
(36:42):
the means of paying that.
But that's not the spiritualministry.
And so the deacon is as muchabout meeting the temporal need
as showing them their spiritualneed.
And so the Canaanite woman shehad a need.
It was a true need, it was aspiritual need, and she had
faith.
(37:03):
But through that process thedisciples' eyes certainly had to
be open that it was a spiritualneed, not merely the temporal
need, but the spiritual needthat was at the heart of
Christ's compassion.
And so that's certainly whatthe deacon needs to develop.
(37:27):
And so, to begin with, you needto spend time in the Scripture,
spend time in prayer, pray forthat wisdom that God promises in
James.
We have a dear man here in thecongregation who has the biggest
heart.
He will help anybody who hethinks might need help.
(37:54):
He's got a great desire to helppeople, but in the past it's
also meant that people havetried to take advantage of him,
and because there are peoplethat in a fallen and corrupt
world, will do that.
(38:14):
And so the deacon needs to havewisdom to discern those, those
occasions.
But again, it's not merely thetemporal need, it's coming back
to that spiritual need that's atthe heart of right.
So Christ's response to theCanaanite woman was to commend
(38:35):
her faith.
So in counseling a new deacon,training a prospective deacon,
to first set forth the that ideathat it's a spiritual office
that he's being trained for,that he's that he's fulfilling
and not not just a.
I mean mostly he's dealing withtemporal needs, but not to lose
(38:57):
sight of the fact that reallyat the heart of the care of the
deacon is the spiritual need.
Chris Cashen (39:04):
Yeah, that's very helpful.
Thank you Well, before we go,scott, I want to kind of drill
down into some nuts and bolts,so to speak.
This Canaanite woman seems tohave had a lot of strikes
against her as she comes toJesus and the disciples.
(39:27):
As you've already noted, theywere likely busy.
There was a lot going on.
We never read about exactlywhat the disciples were doing,
but we're sure they're doingsomething and they've got lots
of going on.
There are lots of people, butthis was a woman which, in that
time, brought particular thingswith it, but she was a Gentile.
(39:48):
She wasn't one of them.
Them, and so that happens quiteoften in diaconal ministries
that you're presented with asinner in need, and many times
not within the church, anddeacons are busy, busy, busy
(40:10):
people.
With regard to nuts and bolts,how you, when you've got a lot
of good, important work thatyou're seeking to accomplish and
now you're presented with anurgent request which wasn't
planned for by some sinner,what's your heart look like when
you receive that?
Scott Cormier (40:31):
Well, that is something that happens and it's
something that we've had happenhere at our church, and I know
that this happens all over hadall the OPC churches all over
the country.
I remember the first diaconalsummit I went to, there was a
time for question and answer andI think someone raised their
(40:51):
hand and said I have thissituation going on and what do I
do about it, kind of a question.
And it was exactly what I wasthinking from my exact example
that I had here, and thensomebody else asked a similar
question, and somebody elseasked a similar question, and
then when we had time to talk,all of this had come up
(41:12):
obviously.
So this is the kind of thingthat comes up and I think we
have to stop and step back,maybe have a quick prayer and
then seek to advance or toaddress that issue.
We've often had it wheresomebody will come in just
before worship or in the middleof worship sometimes even In the
(41:35):
past we've had that happen andso I'll have to step out of the
sanctuary to talk with thatperson, and so it's just like
what you're talking about, whereit's kind of out of nowhere and
it comes up like that.
So we obviously we deal withthat differently than people in
(41:57):
the church, and the people inthe church are, we know, we know
their life story, we have arelationship with them, and so
often when it's somebody comingin the church, we can err on the
side of being generous, withoutquestions maybe, or helping
them later to think through thematters or to see what the issue
is.
But when it's somebody comingfrom outside the church, often
(42:18):
that takes some care to makesure that the church's finances
are not being used for somethinginappropriate.
And we've had that happen atvarious times when I've
researched, been able to look upinformation about a person and
find out that there's otherthings going on there, legally
or otherwise.
But we have to remember that wedon't know the eternal state of
(42:42):
this person.
The person that we're going totalk to may not have come to
Christ.
They may not be a believer yet.
Christ, they may not be abeliever yet, but it may be that
our interaction with them,sharing the gospel while we show
the love of Christ, may be thething that draws them into the
family of God.
So I think that that is animportant thing to remember when
(43:04):
you're busy, when you have alot going on and this immediate
need comes up.
This is a great opportunitythat the Lord has put into your
hands, and you've been given anopportunity to deal with this
particular person.
You don't know how it will endup, but you can seek to address
it.
Also, we often will tie thesekind of needs when it's somebody
(43:26):
coming from outside the churchwith worship, and so one aspect
of receiving funds may be well,come to the worship with us, sit
in with us, and then we'll talkabout this after the worship
service today or that kind ofthing.
And it's surprising how manytimes people are not willing to
do that.
They might show up just beforeworship, but they're not willing
(43:49):
to come in to worship.
They might show up in themiddle of worship, but they're
not willing to come in toworship.
They might show up in themiddle of worship, but they're
not willing to come into worship.
And so I even take that, as youknow, something to be looked at
.
If someone is willing to cometo worship and meet with me
after and comes back multipletimes, you know that can be
dealt with in one way.
(44:09):
If the person is just wantssomething right now and is going
to leave if it's not given,obviously you handle that a
different way.
I'm not sure if that answeredthe question.
Chris Cashen (44:32):
but Well, yes, yes , of course you did.
You already indicated, even inyour busyness, you have got to
be concerned, as Jeremy said,about the spiritual estate and
how you're presenting Christ tothis person, when this was not
on your schedule, and that ispart of the deacon's heart that
(44:55):
you're able to say.
You know what, lord, you'veplaced this before me for your
purposes and I'm submitting toyou and I need to minister to
this person that you've given tome in such a way that Christ is
exalted.
Yeah, that's what I heard yousaying, scott, and I appreciate
(45:17):
that.
You know, sometimes we can throwdarts and arrows at the
disciples, but they're suchwonderful examples for us to use
, in the positive and in thenegative, and I think that's
what this passage has done forus today to bring out first the
heart of Jesus and then, whatshould our hearts look like?
(45:38):
What should our deacon's heartslook like as they're presented
with difficult diaconal issues?
Well, thank you very much,jeremy and Scott, for taking the
time to discuss a veryimportant aspect of the heart of
a deacon.
I know there's much more wecould discuss, but this was
great and thank you for beingwith us and for your ministries
(46:02):
there in North Carolina.
Jeremy Huntington (46:04):
Thank you, chris, thank you.
Chris Cashen (46:06):
And deacons, we hope this episode was and will
be encouraging to you in yourministries and your labors for
the Lord, and may the Lord blessyou.
One of the biggest things that is necessary
is preparing the heartbeforehand so that you can
respond in the right way at theright time.
So a lot of times I like to goback and just review what is
important in the office ofdeacon, or, you know, I'll go
back myself and reread throughthe documents that we have and
(00:22):
think about it and meditate uponthese things so that my heart
is ready for those needs.
David Nakhla (00:30):
Welcome to the Reformed Deacon, a casual
conversation with topicsspecifically designed to help
local Reformed Deacons.
There are nearly a thousanddeacons in the OPC alone, so
let's take this opportunity tolearn from and encourage one
another.
We're so glad you could join us.
Let's jump into our nextepisode.
Chris Cashen (00:50):
Welcome to another episode of the Reformed Deacon
Podcast.
My name is Chris Cashin and Iserve as pastor of Trinity
Reformed OPC in Lanham, maryland.
I also serve on the OPC'sCommittee on Diaconal Ministries
and it's my privilege once in awhile to host this podcast.
Today with me are JeremyHuntington and Scott Cormier.
(01:14):
Jeremy is a ruling elder atCovenant OPC in New Bern, north
Carolina.
He grew up in North Dakota, sohe's not a native of North
Carolina.
His father was a Presbyterianminister ending up in the
Orthodox Presbyterian Church.
He was a church planter.
His mother is still a member ofBethel OPC in North Dakota.
(01:35):
Jeremy builds boats in NorthCarolina.
He's been doing that for manyyears now and when he came to
North Carolina he beganattending a mission church there
in New Bern, which became aparticular church which is now
Covenant OPC, and he wasordained as a ruling elder in
(01:56):
September of 2002.
So Jeremy's been serving as anelder for many years a couple of
decades now been serving as anelder for many years a couple of
decades now.
He is also a member of thePresbytery of the Southeast Home
Missions Committee and with hiswife Janine, they have nine
children ranging in ages fromtwo to 20.
It's a busy household, welcome.
Jeremy Huntington (02:17):
Jeremy, thank you.
It's good to see you again,chris, and good to be with you.
Chris Cashen (02:21):
Scott is a deacon at Covenant and New Bern.
He was a Marine and, scott,we're not going to hold that
against you.
I was in the Navy for a fewyears, but you were a Marine for
eight, and so I've got a lot ofrespect for you.
Brother, thank you for serving.
He's married to Adria, withfour boys.
I don't know what are theirages, scott four boys I don't
(02:47):
know what are their ages, scottFifteen down to seven.
Okay, also a busy home.
You're an occupationaltherapist focusing on upper
extremity rehabilitation, andyou were ordained as a deacon in
July of 2018, so you've beenserving for six years now and in
two different churchescurrently at Covenant OPC, but
also at Pilgrim OPC and Bangor,maine.
Welcome, scott.
Scott Cormier (03:08):
Actually the 2018 , I think, was in Maine and I
was actually a deacon here atCovenant OPC for a number of
years, moved up to Maine forabout three years and I was a
deacon up there and then I'vesince moved back down here again
.
Chris Cashen (03:23):
All right, so there are many more years of
being a deacon.
About how many years have youbeen ordained as a deacon?
Scott Cormier (03:29):
I think it was 2008.
I'd have to go back and look atthat.
Chris Cashen (03:32):
All right, we'll take that 2008.
Welcome man.
Today we're going to bediscussing, in broad brush
fashion, the heart of a deacon,and we're going to do that, or
at least try to do that, byconsidering a short portion of
Scripture to see how it's goingto help us think through this
topic of the heart of a deacon.
(03:53):
Now, from time to time on thispodcast, we want to take an
in-depth look at Bible passagesand theological topics to
strengthen a deacon'sunderstanding of and purpose for
his office.
In other words, we plan toinvite some of our guests to
open up Scripture or doctrinaltopics which have a particular
application to the work and thecharacter, the qualities of a
(04:16):
Reformed deacon.
In today's podcast, we're goingto be taking a look at Matthew
15, verses 21 through 28.
This is about the Canaanitewoman who comes to Jesus crying
for help for her daughter who isdemon-possessed.
Most of our discussion is goingto be focused on the
application of this passage asit relates to a deacon's heart,
(04:38):
and so we have the two men here,jeremy and Scott, who have been
serving the church for manyyears, to help us walk through
this passage with an eye towardthe work of a deacon,
particularly with regard to adeacon's heart.
Well, let's begin.
I'm going to read this portionof Scripture, matthew 15,
(04:58):
beginning at verse 21,.
And this was from the EnglishStandard Version.
Let's give attention to God'sholy word from the English
Standard Version.
Let's give attention to God'sholy word.
And Jesus went away from thereand withdrew to the district of
Tyre and Sidon.
And behold, a Canaanite womanfrom that region came out and
was crying have mercy on me, oLord, son of David.
(05:19):
My daughter is severelyoppressed by a demon.
But he did not answer her aword.
And his disciples came andbegged him, saying Send her away
, for she is crying out after us.
He answered I was sent only tothe lost sheep of the house of
Israel.
(05:39):
But she came and knelt beforehim saying Lord, help me.
But she came and knelt beforehim saying Lord, help me.
And he answered it is not rightto take the children's bread
and throw it to the dogs.
She said, yes, lord.
Yet even the dogs eat thecrumbs that fall from their
master's table.
And Jesus answered her oh,woman, great is your face.
(06:03):
And Jesus answered her oh,woman, great is your faith.
Be it done for you as youdesire.
And her daughter was healedimmediately.
Jeremy, would you pray for usplease?
Jeremy Huntington (06:16):
Yes, I'd be glad to Lord, our God.
We rejoice in the word thatyou've given us.
We rejoice that you are our God.
We rejoice, Father, son andSpirit, that you have revealed
yourself to us in wondrous waysand that we can open your word
and find new meaning, newunderstanding, new revelation,
(06:41):
not because you have createdsomething new, but because you
are continuing to sanctify usand give us greater
understanding.
And so we thank you for yourword and you pray, as we
consider it and discuss it andits application for our lives
and the lives of the offices andespecially the deacons of your
(07:03):
church, that you would continueto work in us.
Greater conformity to your will, but a greater burden and
desire and love for your churchand for Christ himself.
We ask this in Christ's name,amen, amen.
Chris Cashen (07:20):
Thank you.
Thank you Well, brothers, thisis an interesting passage as
Matthew presented.
This event, this interaction,this conversation follows
immediately on the heels ofJesus' interaction with the
Pharisees and scribes regardingceremonial hand washing.
If you remember, they werecomplaining that the disciples
(07:42):
weren't washing their hands andthat was really a ceremonial
washing before they ate.
And then Jesus explains that,well, that's not where sin comes
from.
It's not what goes in but whatcomes out from your heart.
But it's also after thatinteraction between Jesus and
(08:06):
his disciples where he feeds the5,000.
And we see in that passage whereagain the disciples are saying
to Jesus with regard to thepeople send them away.
We don't have enough for themhere.
Just Jesus, send them away.
It's desolate the day's over.
(08:28):
And so there's a bit ofrepetition here as we get to
this interaction with theSeraphim woman, or the Canaanite
woman, where the disciples areonce again coming to Jesus and
actually the text says begginghim send her away.
She's crying out.
Well, jeremy, initially Jesusdoesn't respond but remains
(09:00):
silent.
What was going on?
I know we don't have it in thetext, but was this a lack of
mercy by Jesus?
Jeremy Huntington (09:06):
well, the obvious, the obvious answer is
that it's not a lack of mercy injesus, and that's obvious just
from just from the whole recordof scripture.
But uh, I I think that, uh,especially as you read on, and
in that chapter we come just afew verses later, we've had, in
just previous chapter, thefeeding of the 5,000 in
Matthew's record.
(09:27):
Then we come to the feeding ofthe 4,000, and Jesus tells his
disciples, he calls them to himand says I have compassion on
this multitude.
So it's obviously not a lack ofmercy on the part of Christ,
(09:47):
see, on the part of Christ.
As to what's going on, it'sinteresting because you're
asking a question from anattitude, from a perspective
that most commentators don'tactually even contemplate this
passage.
But there's a great deal ofdiscussion as to why Jesus was
silent here.
I think that there are times,when it comes to the disciples,
that it's apparent that he'sdesirous of seeing their
(10:08):
response, and their responseimmediately was to urge him I'm
using the New King James, butthey urge him to send her away.
And it's that urgency withwhich—and again, it's
interesting in Matthew's recordwe have this sandwich between
(10:29):
the feeding of the 5,000 and thefeeding of the 4,000, where at
the feeding of the 5,000, thedisciples want to send them away
to go take care of their needs.
You know, we don't haveanything to feed them, send them
away.
They're neat.
We don't have anything to feedthem, send them away.
They obviously don't haveanything with which to provide
an answer to the request of thisCanaanite woman.
(10:50):
So their immediate response iswhat it was with the 5,000, send
her away.
Send them away.
And they haven't learned fromthe feeding of the 5,000, the
capacity that Christ has torespond with compassion and
mercy.
And so it may very well be thatChrist is trying to stir up in
(11:13):
them recollection of that workthat he did with the feeding of
the 5,000, when their immediateresponse was something similar
to this send them away.
We don't have the capacity toprovide for their needs, we
don't have the capacity to carefor them.
Send them away.
And they haven't learned thatlesson.
They didn't take that lesson toheart from the feeding of the
(11:34):
5,000.
And I can't say I necessarilyblame them.
We have the advantage ofreading this record and being
critical because of how it'spresented to us, but it's hard
to be confronted with situationsand your own immediate capacity
to answer the problem, to notanswer in the way that the
(11:57):
disciples answered this.
Chris Cashen (12:00):
So yeah, very good .
Where might we go in Scriptureif we're wondering, you know,
was Jesus not being—where mightwe go in Scripture to say, of
course, jesus is merciful.
Scripture has opened that up tous and we need to bring some
other passages in to maybe notreassure ourselves but to say,
(12:23):
yeah, we need to put thatguardrail up here that Jesus is
merciful Brothers.
Where might we go in Scriptureto find those kinds of texts
which would put up thatguardrail for us Jesus is
merciful.
Jeremy Huntington (12:36):
Well, I think that we can see it from the
whole of Scripture.
You know, even from the verybeginning of Genesis when man
falls, god doesn't leave himwithout hope, but he promises
one to save and redeem.
We have the record of God'swork preserving Israel
(12:59):
throughout their wildernesswanderings wilderness wanderings
.
But we come to Isaiah and thosegreat passages of Isaiah
picturing Christ and thesuffering servant and what he's
going to do.
And then in the New Testamentwe have it opened up to us that
Christ is the fulfillment ofthose promises.
My kids know we're coming tothe end of summer.
(13:20):
They're getting geared up forthe next year of school.
My least favorite verse atgraduation time is Jeremiah 29,
11.
Every Christian and homeschoolgraduate is overwhelmed with
cards that say I know what Ihave planned for you.
You know and so they all walkaway with this great passage
(13:42):
from Jeremiah that God has greatplans to prosper us.
Except that's not really thecontext.
Right, I'm about to send youinto 70 years of captivity.
It would be terrible, it wouldbe harsh, but I've got a great
plan for your life.
He says to the Jews I'm goingto restore you.
And so we see that, though.
(14:03):
Now I'm bringing that to a realapplication.
We see that borne out, thoughin that applicable way to the
church.
The trials that God brings usthrough are, for our purpose,
right.
And then we tie that in withPaul's letter to the Romans All
things work together for thegood of those called according
to his purpose.
(14:24):
All things work together forthe good of those called
according to his purpose.
And so when you take the wholerecord of scripture, we tie it
all together from the beginningto the end, and we see that
Christ is that fulfillment ofthe promises that we have from
the fall of man through theredemption and the restoration.
He's the Messiah, the promisedone that we have in Isaiah, and
so all of these promises arefulfilled in Christ.
(14:44):
And so you can't come to aplace and say Christ is without
mercy, especially when you seethe charges set against Israel
and Judah.
And yet the promises of theMessiah and the suffering
servant and you know to bringthat in even to the Canaanite
woman the promises of Messiah inIsaiah are not just a
(15:06):
restoration of Israel, but thatthis promise and the fulfillment
and the restoration will be tothe ends of the earth and he's
going to bring in the Gentilesand build his kingdom from the
nations.
And so here we can tie that inhere as well with the Canaanite
woman.
Right, send her away.
(15:27):
He says to her, you know, butwhat have I to do with you?
I'm here for the sheep, I'mhere for the lost children of
God.
And she says but you know, havemercy on me, I'll take it from.
And he responds to her thatit's her faith, right, so it's
(15:49):
not a different means, it's nota different method of
incorporation, but it's the samefaith that brings her in, which
we'll see then in Acts beingfulfilled, and then through the
missionary journeys of theapostles fulfilled and then
through the missionary journeysof the apostles.
Chris Cashen (16:10):
I appreciate your going to the Old Testament first
and bringing us through that tothe New, and I also appreciate
your reference to Romans 8, forat the end of that chapter we
see that there's nothing,nothing can separate us from the
love of God in Christ, whichobviously establishes His mercy.
That's unbreakable.
Well, scott, this was as far asMatthew records the event.
(16:33):
The second time that Jesus'disciples respond in this way
send them or her away We've justestablished that Jesus is a
merciful God-man.
What may have been going on inthe hearts of the disciples
(16:54):
during these moments?
Now, I know we don't have apicture, we don't have a verse
that says, okay, here's what washappening, but what do you
think what might have been goingon in their hearts during these
moments?
Not only just the 5,000 to befed, but now very particularly
with regard to this Canaanitewoman.
Scott Cormier (17:16):
Well, I think you know when you're put into this
kind of situation and somethinglike this comes up quickly,
there's just a lot of pressuresgoing on, they're very busy.
In this particular case A lotof needs from within the people
who are surrounding them andoutside, and so that busyness
may be pushing them, causingstress and causing them to not
(17:41):
see the need for them.
Also, they may consider thatthis particular need is beyond
their ability to help and notlooking outside of themselves as
far as how to help with thisparticular need.
They're not yet in the mindsetof looking to Christ to supply
the need to bringing this personto Christ, to speaking to
Christ about this at this pointin their ministry.
(18:04):
Person to Christ, to speakingto Christ about this at this
point in their ministry, and sothat can be a part of it.
Just not thinking, maybethinking about their own
strength, how would I accomplishthis?
I'm not able to accomplish thisand not seeing how it is that,
how they can go to Christ fortheir need.
And you know, I also think, aswe were talking about, they
still have a lot more to learn.
(18:24):
There's a lot of ministry yetto come, a teaching from Christ.
They don't know all there is toknow about Christ.
Later we'll see howstrengthened they are at the
later parts of their ministry,but early on they don't know
that he is to die, that he willrise from the dead.
He hasn't taught them from allthe scriptures and they don't
(18:54):
have the full outpouring of theHoly Spirit to strengthen them
in that particular way that theywill later.
So I think there's a lot of allof that going on and not able
yet to respond to those kinds ofpressures.
Chris Cashen (19:01):
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah, I agree, jesus, but eventhe dogs feed on the crumbs, and
(19:31):
she's suggesting that even thecrumbs will be sufficient for me
, because I know who you are.
Do you see a contrast, scott,between her faith and the faith
of the disciples at this point,scott?
Scott Cormier (19:41):
Well, I do, of course, early on in this
interaction.
She just has this she has astrong need that nobody else can
fulfill and no one has beenable to fulfill up to this point
, and there's only one personwho can fulfill this need that
(20:01):
she has and that's Christ.
This need that she has andthat's Christ.
And so I think this, as Jeremywas saying, this faith is
developed as he draws it out ofher little by little and she's
verbalizing it more and moreclearly and showing the example
of her faith.
But early on there's thisdesperate need that she has
Again, nobody else can supplythe need except for Christ.
(20:24):
So I think that is one thinghere that's a difference between
her and the apostles.
She has a desperate need.
She sees where she can havethat need met and she has to go
to that person in Christ.
And you know, you can't seeinto the disciples' minds and
everything, but often we areused to doing things in our own
(20:44):
strength, our own power.
So they don't quite have thatsame need here that is driving
them to Christ that they see.
In fact they do have a need,but maybe they don't see it
clearly that they need to.
They need him for help in thismatter.
Chris Cashen (21:01):
Yeah, very good.
Well, I think, at least from myperspective, the overall theme
of this passage seems to be thecompassion of Jesus.
This Gentile woman, thisCanaanite, this Seraphim, this
dog, she's seeking it and thedisciples were trying to avoid
(21:23):
it, and yet in the mercy weretrying to avoid it, and yet in
the mercy, the compassion ofJesus, it just shines through
brightly.
Jeremy, do you see in Christ'sresponse the depiction of the
heart of Jesus as recorded byMatthew, set forth here as a
model for certainly allChristians, but in particular
(21:43):
deacons?
Jeremy Huntington (21:50):
all Christians, but in particular
deacons.
Well, certainly, as the one whosets the example for us in the
offices of the church, as thoseare set out by Paul in his
letter to Timothy and in hisletters to Timothy and Titus,
we're not supposed to be makingup our own way.
We're not creating somethingnew and entirely different just
(22:10):
to satisfy our logistical needsand purposes.
But when we take these texts,you know, christ says to her in
the very first I was not sentexcept to the lost sheep of the
house of Israel.
And she says Lord, help me.
And again he's doing this forher benefit.
(22:31):
Her prayers are increasing intheir fervor.
And he responds with great isyour faith, Let it be to you as
you desire.
But then again we come down,just a few verses later, to the
feeding of the 4,000.
And Jesus calls his disciples tohim and says I have compassion
on the multitude right, and soit's this because they've been
(22:52):
with me for three days and havenothing to eat, I don't want to
send them away hungry lest theyfaint on the way.
There's this compassion and thedesire that he has for his
people, and that, then, is thegreat task that the deacon is
supposed to have that over, thatcompassion, that desire for the
people, first the people ofChrist, but remember it's first
(23:14):
the people.
But then that ministry spillsout of the church into the
community, beyond the churchright.
So we begin with the house ofGod and then it extends to those
outside, even in anevangelistic way.
And so we have that sort ofrepresentative for us here,
christ with his compassion forhis sheep, but demonstrating as
(23:34):
well that it's a passion notjust for the sheep who are
already in the house, but forthose whom he's elected, those
who are outside.
And so it certainly sets thatsample for us and picture for
the work of the deacon right Notjust a new office with new
logistical problems to solve,but certainly a fulfillment of
(23:57):
that ministry of Christ.
Chris Cashen (23:59):
Excellent, yeah.
So I want to dig now a littlebit deeper into the deacon's
heart.
I think we've set the table aswe've considered, christ and his
compassion certainly showingforth powerfully in this passage
.
Real question is what followsit, and this is for both of you.
(24:27):
Would you agree that the heartof a deacon begins with a true
saving faith in the Lord Jesus?
Jeremy Huntington (24:32):
Well, yes.
Chris Cashen (24:34):
Okay, good, so here's what I want to get at.
How would you describe thatfaith in Jesus?
Now, I guess what I'm lookingfor is something very particular
.
Not that a deacon has adifferent faith, but, given this
passage, there just doesn'tseem to be any recognition or
(24:54):
acknowledgement by the disciplesthat Jesus could do anything to
help this woman, not even apassing thought that he was able
to or willing.
Do deacons need to know andbelieve that Jesus is able?
I mean, is that part of adeacon's heart?
Jeremy Huntington (25:13):
I think that we must say it certainly must be
part of the deacon's heart.
Paul tells Timothy, concerningthe deacons that they are to
hold fast, that they are to holdthe mystery of the faith with a
pure conscience.
So it's very near the beginningof those qualifications that he
(25:38):
gives hold fast that mystery ofthe faith with a pure
conscience.
And what is that mystery of thefaith if it doesn't include a
belief that god is sovereign,that he is powerful?
This is the heart of the prayerthat that the believer is to
(25:59):
bring.
Why do we pray to god if heisn't sovereign over all things?
And why do we pray to God if heisn't sovereign over all things?
And why do we pray to God if wedon't believe he can't do the
things that we're asking him todo?
And so, you know, the Puritanswere, they were big on prayer
and, for all of their oppositionto foreign prayers, they left
(26:19):
us with many books of writtenprayers, written prayers, but at
the heart of them was thisbelief in God's sovereignty and
his power to do, as Paul saysexceedingly abundantly, above
(26:40):
all that we think or ask.
And so that's certainly part ofthis mystery of the faith that
the deacon is to hold, notbecause, as you said, it's a
different faith, but that's whatPaul is setting forth by the
Spirit of God.
That is required of the deaconsthat they must believe in the
doctrinal standards of, if youwill, the doctrinal standards of
the church, but then reallybelieve in their heart that God
(27:04):
is who he says he is, and thatGod was able to do what he says
he can do, and that he is oftenable to do what we don't believe
he can do.
Chris Cashen (27:14):
Very good.
On this passage we havedescribed for us a mercy seeker
in the Canaanite woman.
She sought mercy actually forherself, because she was
helpless.
She had no way to help herdaughter who was cruelly
demon-possessed.
And then, in contrast, we havethe disciples who wanted to have
(27:38):
earplugs to stop the sound ofher crying out for mercy.
For crying out for mercy, scott, in your many years of diaconal
service, what does a heart ofmercy look like?
How does a deacon hear such acry and respond in mercy?
(28:01):
What does it take within yourheart to respond with compassion
?
Mercy.
Scott Cormier (28:07):
What does it take within your heart to respond
with compassion?
Well, I think one of thebiggest things that is necessary
is preparing the heartbeforehand so that you can
respond in the right way at theright time.
So a lot of times I like to goback and just review what is
important in the office ofdeacon, or I'll go back myself
(28:27):
and reread through the documentsthat we have and think about it
and meditate upon these things,so that my heart is ready for
those needs.
As we've talked about before.
We first look to Christ, and sowe remember that Christ was
always ready to show compassionand we can think on this deeply.
(28:49):
And what did that look like atthe time?
And what does that mean for me?
As he went around and healedevery kind of disease or washed
people's feet or gave them foodor gave them the word, whatever
it might be.
And you know, think on the factthat he came to serve and not
(29:10):
to be served, and that he isinterceding on our behalf and
prepared to strengthen us.
So first it's a looking toChrist, but also I like to go
back to the book of church orderto remind myself, you know,
what is it that is required ofme as a deacon.
What is it that I need tostrive for?
(29:31):
And the opening part of the formof government.
When they talk about what willbe said about a deacon, it
starts off like this the officeof a deacon is based upon the
solicitude and love of Christfor his own people.
So tender is our Lord'sinterest in their temporal needs
that he considers what is doneunto one of the least of his
(29:52):
brethren as done to him.
For he will say to those whohave ministered to his little
ones I was hungry and you gaveme to eat.
I was thirsty and you gave meto drink.
I was a stranger and you tookme in and I was naked and you
clothed me.
I was sick and you visited me,and I was a stranger and you
took me in and I was naked andyou clothed me.
I was sick and you visited meand I was in prison and you came
on to me.
And it goes on from there.
(30:13):
And there's many other goodparts there in that section, but
it helps to get my mind and myheart in the right place for
service.
And also I remember an excellentbook that we've read here and I
know it's been talked about onthe podcast before the deacon,
by cornelius van dam, and one ofthe tasks he talks about there
(30:37):
for the deacon is to safeguardthe communal joy of the
fellowship of believers and, uh,sort of to be a joy detector
and to find out who has needsand to seek to address them, to
lift the burdens off of theirshoulders so that they too can
(30:57):
function according to God'sresponsibilities that he's given
to them, that they can usetheir gifts because the burdens
have been lifted off of theirbacks, they can go to worship on
Sunday with joy and not bedistracted by all the cares of
the world because they've hadthe assistance of the
congregation or of the deacons.
So there's aspects like thatthat get me thinking in the
(31:21):
right way.
Obviously, the means of grace.
I almost feel like you could doa whole podcast on the deacon
and the means of grace.
We were lucky, we're blessed,one year to have a conference
here with Dr Piper fromGreenville Seminary on the means
of grace and all the aspects inthe church and for the believer
(31:41):
and for the church and thingslike that, and so as a deacon,
we need to be in the wordourselves, in prayer, in worship
, praying with others and beingstrengthened by all the means of
grace so that we can do thiswork.
It's a spiritual task.
We have to prepare our heartahead of time and then we can
(32:03):
respond with the right heart.
Our heart ahead of time andthen we can respond with the
right heart.
Also, I think back to the lastsummit that we had and people
may have heard this already.
If not, they may want to go andlisten.
There were very good messagesthat were given, one in
particular by Pastor Ron Pierceon the ministry that deacons
need, and that could be a goodmessage for preparing your heart
(32:25):
for serving in the church.
And also I remember that PastorBill Shishko talked about, had
an excellent talk on deacons,but specifically he mentioned
many books, devotional materialsthat deacons can read and
meditate upon Christ, see how heserved to prepare themselves to
grow in their love for Christand be ready to then serve
(32:48):
others.
And so I think all of thathopefully that answers a little
bit of what you're asking afterthat question, but definitely
preparation and seeking to havethe heart ready ahead of time is
what is neat.
Chris Cashen (33:03):
That's a full answer, Scott.
Thank you, Jeremy.
Is there anything you wouldwant to add to that?
If you were training a newdeacon or a prospective deacon
to anticipate events like thisone, how would you advise him to
prepare his heart for somethinglike this?
Jeremy Huntington (33:18):
Oh, scott's touched on it already.
The first thing is to rememberthat the office of a deacon is a
spiritual office.
We might get caught up in allof the works of mercy, all of
the waiting on tables that thefirst deacons were appointed to
do, but it was for the purposethat the apostles could devote
(33:42):
themselves to prayer andinstruction.
So it is a spiritual office.
It's spiritual for thecongregation, for the recipient
and for the deacon.
And so in the first place, youknow, to considering training
(34:04):
for a deacon place, toconsidering training for a
deacon, there are many men outthere who are gifted to do
things and a deacon needs to getthings done.
So our temptation may beimmediately to say if someone
can get something done, heshould be a deacon, and that
(34:31):
fails that first observationthat it's a spiritual office.
If the deacon again going backto 1 Timothy if a deacon doesn't
hold fast to faith with a pureconscience, and how does he do
that if he's not spending timein the Word and in prayer?
Now, these are the things thatwe tell everyone in our
(34:53):
congregations.
Right, you need to spend yourtime daily in the Word, daily in
prayer, you need to devoteyourselves to these things.
So in one sense it's not anydifferent command than is given
to anybody else in the Church,but to a deacon there's the
special import, and as aminister you know this.
(35:14):
It's not because the ministersalone should read the word and
should seek to understand theword, no, but there's a certain
task that you've been given inyour ordination to divide that
word and make it plain to thecongregation so that they would
understand it.
And so, in a similar way, forthe office of a deacon, reading
the word, spending time inprayer, these are all essential
(35:36):
to them to fulfilling hisministry.
And so that's where we wouldstart, because then, as James
says, if any of you lacks wisdom, pray for it in the Lord, and
God, who gives liberallyally,will give this to you.
And so that's the beginning ofthe deacon's work.
(35:57):
If he's not in the word, ifhe's not in prayer, if he
doesn't have wisdom to discernthe need, then how can he
fulfill the need?
A man who simply does we mayneed men to do, but the deacon
is the one who can then discernthe need.
(36:18):
The woman comes to Christ andthe disciples and says have
mercy on me.
But she had a true need.
She had a real need for mercy,not just and here's part of the
wisdom that the deacons aregoing to need not just somebody
who came to the church to say Iwant a bigger TV, I don't have
(36:42):
the means of paying that.
But that's not the spiritualministry.
And so the deacon is as muchabout meeting the temporal need
as showing them their spiritualneed.
And so the Canaanite woman shehad a need.
It was a true need, it was aspiritual need, and she had
faith.
(37:03):
But through that process thedisciples' eyes certainly had to
be open that it was a spiritualneed, not merely the temporal
need, but the spiritual needthat was at the heart of
Christ's compassion.
And so that's certainly whatthe deacon needs to develop.
(37:27):
And so, to begin with, you needto spend time in the Scripture,
spend time in prayer, pray forthat wisdom that God promises in
James.
We have a dear man here in thecongregation who has the biggest
heart.
He will help anybody who hethinks might need help.
(37:54):
He's got a great desire to helppeople, but in the past it's
also meant that people havetried to take advantage of him,
and because there are peoplethat in a fallen and corrupt
world, will do that.
(38:14):
And so the deacon needs to havewisdom to discern those, those
occasions.
But again, it's not merely thetemporal need, it's coming back
to that spiritual need that's atthe heart of right.
So Christ's response to theCanaanite woman was to commend
(38:35):
her faith.
So in counseling a new deacon,training a prospective deacon,
to first set forth the that ideathat it's a spiritual office
that he's being trained for,that he's that he's fulfilling
and not not just a.
I mean mostly he's dealing withtemporal needs, but not to lose
(38:57):
sight of the fact that reallyat the heart of the care of the
deacon is the spiritual need.
Chris Cashen (39:04):
Yeah, that's very helpful.
Thank you Well, before we go,scott, I want to kind of drill
down into some nuts and bolts,so to speak.
This Canaanite woman seems tohave had a lot of strikes
against her as she comes toJesus and the disciples.
(39:27):
As you've already noted, theywere likely busy.
There was a lot going on.
We never read about exactlywhat the disciples were doing,
but we're sure they're doingsomething and they've got lots
of going on.
There are lots of people, butthis was a woman which, in that
time, brought particular thingswith it, but she was a Gentile.
(39:48):
She wasn't one of them.
Them, and so that happens quiteoften in diaconal ministries
that you're presented with asinner in need, and many times
not within the church, anddeacons are busy, busy, busy
(40:10):
people.
With regard to nuts and bolts,how you, when you've got a lot
of good, important work thatyou're seeking to accomplish and
now you're presented with anurgent request which wasn't
planned for by some sinner,what's your heart look like when
you receive that?
Scott Cormier (40:31):
Well, that is something that happens and it's
something that we've had happenhere at our church, and I know
that this happens all over hadall the OPC churches all over
the country.
I remember the first diaconalsummit I went to, there was a
time for question and answer andI think someone raised their
(40:51):
hand and said I have thissituation going on and what do I
do about it, kind of a question.
And it was exactly what I wasthinking from my exact example
that I had here, and thensomebody else asked a similar
question, and somebody elseasked a similar question, and
then when we had time to talk,all of this had come up
(41:12):
obviously.
So this is the kind of thingthat comes up and I think we
have to stop and step back,maybe have a quick prayer and
then seek to advance or toaddress that issue.
We've often had it wheresomebody will come in just
before worship or in the middleof worship sometimes even In the
(41:35):
past we've had that happen andso I'll have to step out of the
sanctuary to talk with thatperson, and so it's just like
what you're talking about, whereit's kind of out of nowhere and
it comes up like that.
So we obviously we deal withthat differently than people in
(41:57):
the church, and the people inthe church are, we know, we know
their life story, we have arelationship with them, and so
often when it's somebody comingin the church, we can err on the
side of being generous, withoutquestions maybe, or helping
them later to think through thematters or to see what the issue
is.
But when it's somebody comingfrom outside the church, often
(42:18):
that takes some care to makesure that the church's finances
are not being used for somethinginappropriate.
And we've had that happen atvarious times when I've
researched, been able to look upinformation about a person and
find out that there's otherthings going on there, legally
or otherwise.
But we have to remember that wedon't know the eternal state of
(42:42):
this person.
The person that we're going totalk to may not have come to
Christ.
They may not be a believer yet.
Christ, they may not be abeliever yet, but it may be that
our interaction with them,sharing the gospel while we show
the love of Christ, may be thething that draws them into the
family of God.
So I think that that is animportant thing to remember when
(43:04):
you're busy, when you have alot going on and this immediate
need comes up.
This is a great opportunitythat the Lord has put into your
hands, and you've been given anopportunity to deal with this
particular person.
You don't know how it will endup, but you can seek to address
it.
Also, we often will tie thesekind of needs when it's somebody
(43:26):
coming from outside the churchwith worship, and so one aspect
of receiving funds may be well,come to the worship with us, sit
in with us, and then we'll talkabout this after the worship
service today or that kind ofthing.
And it's surprising how manytimes people are not willing to
do that.
They might show up just beforeworship, but they're not willing
(43:49):
to come in to worship.
They might show up in themiddle of worship, but they're
not willing to come in toworship.
They might show up in themiddle of worship, but they're
not willing to come into worship.
And so I even take that, as youknow, something to be looked at
.
If someone is willing to cometo worship and meet with me
after and comes back multipletimes, you know that can be
dealt with in one way.
(44:09):
If the person is just wantssomething right now and is going
to leave if it's not given,obviously you handle that a
different way.
I'm not sure if that answeredthe question.
Chris Cashen (44:32):
but Well, yes, yes , of course you did.
You already indicated, even inyour busyness, you have got to
be concerned, as Jeremy said,about the spiritual estate and
how you're presenting Christ tothis person, when this was not
on your schedule, and that ispart of the deacon's heart that
(44:55):
you're able to say.
You know what, lord, you'veplaced this before me for your
purposes and I'm submitting toyou and I need to minister to
this person that you've given tome in such a way that Christ is
exalted.
Yeah, that's what I heard yousaying, scott, and I appreciate
(45:17):
that.
You know, sometimes we can throwdarts and arrows at the
disciples, but they're suchwonderful examples for us to use
, in the positive and in thenegative, and I think that's
what this passage has done forus today to bring out first the
heart of Jesus and then, whatshould our hearts look like?
(45:38):
What should our deacon's heartslook like as they're presented
with difficult diaconal issues?
Well, thank you very much,jeremy and Scott, for taking the
time to discuss a veryimportant aspect of the heart of
a deacon.
I know there's much more wecould discuss, but this was
great and thank you for beingwith us and for your ministries
(46:02):
there in North Carolina.
Jeremy Huntington (46:04):
Thank you, chris, thank you.
Chris Cashen (46:06):
And deacons, we hope this episode was and will
be encouraging to you in yourministries and your labors for
the Lord, and may the Lord blessyou.
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