July 29, 2024 • 28 mins
July 30th is World Day Against Trafficking in Persons. In this episode, Rani Hong, a survivor of child slavery, shares her harrowing journey from being stolen from her family and sold into slavery, to eventually escaping and using her experience to advocate for others. She highlights her efforts to bring global attention to the issue of child slavery and her advocacy at the United Nations, and her work in establishing Freedom Seal, the organization behind the first global mark of trust awarded to companies committed to the reduction of forced labor and associated financial crimes, as well as human rights abuse.
Learn more:
thefreedomseal.com
risk.lexisnexis.com/global/en/insights-resources/infographic/take-a-stand-against-human-trafficking
un.org/en/observances/end-human-trafficking-day
risk.lexisnexis.com/global/en/products/worldcompliance-data
risk.lexisnexis.com/global/en/products/bridger-insight-xg-global
DISCLAIMER: The information provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to and shall not be used as legal advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of LexisNexis Risk Solutions. LexisNexis Risk Solutions does not warrant that the information provided in this podcast is accurate or error-free.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hi everyone, welcome back to the Red Tech Pulse.
You're here with Julia andtoday we have a very special
episode to mark July 30th, whichis World Day Against the
Trafficking in People.
I am very honoured to be joinedby Rani Hong, who is the CEO of
Freedom Seal.
This is the organisation behindthe first global mark of trust
which is awarded to companieswho are committed to the
reduction of forced labour andassociated financial crimes, as
(00:34):
well as human rights abuse.
As a child, rani was kidnappedand sold into slavery.
As a former UN Special Advisoron Human Trafficking in 2015,
she participated in the UNGA toAid in Development of the 2030
Sustainable Strategy and Policy.
Rani was India's Woman of theYear in 2018, and she is a
credible voice behind the issueof forced labour and related
(00:57):
financial crimes.
So, rani, thank you so much forjoining me today.
I'm really really pleased tohave you on this episode.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Great.
Thank you, julia, and I lookforward to our conversation and
raising awareness on this issue.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Absolutely so.
You spoke at a couple of ourrecent events and it's an
incredible story.
But I wondered if, before weget into that, maybe if you
could just introduce yourself alittle bit, and particularly
some of the work that you dowith Freedom Seal.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yes, my name is Ronnie Ronnie Hong and I am the
CEO of Freedom Seal Global.
I am based here in the SeattleWashington USA area, and Freedom
Seal's goal is to be able tohelp companies be proactive when
it comes to preventing forcedlabor within their supply chains
.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
And a little bit about the nature of the problem,
because I think sometimespeople you know forced labor,
human trafficking, modernslavery it's terms which people
sometimes use interchangeably.
A little bit about, maybe, whatsome of the definitions are and
also some of the numbers of theproblem and the scale of the
problem, because I think thatit's a lot more prevalent than a
(02:04):
lot of people would know orwould like to think it is.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, you're right, julia, there are a lot of
different terms that are beingused and could be a little
confusing, and so, to clarifyfor your users, we use the term
human trafficking, and that'sexactly selling, buying or
selling people for a profit.
That's exactly, you know,selling, buying or selling
people for a profit.
And in those in the slavery wecall it modern day slavery is
(02:31):
another term we use, and that's,you know, today's world, or
what people understand.
But what we know is that thisissue is more than just a number
, right, it's a real human face,and so I have partnered with
many around the world, and,according to the International
Labor Organization, theyestimate 20.9 million people are
(02:57):
victims of forced labor at anypoint, and this represents about
three in every 1,000 of today'sworld population.
And then, of these, 90% areexploited by private individuals
and enterprises.
We also know other figures, as50 million slaves in the world
overall, right, so we havedifferent people, different
(03:20):
trafficking within differentsectors, and so sometimes their
numbers and stats are slightlydifferent, but that gives you
the global scope of the problem.
But you might ask, well, who arethese victims, right, and what
makes them vulnerable to forcedlabor?
And well, what he said, theother term is forced labor.
Forced labor affects allpopulations, it's groups, it's
(03:44):
young people, it's old, male,female, but some of these groups
are more vulnerable than theothers.
So and then we talk about, youknow, we talk about the migrant
workers who are brought in tocountries to do certain types of
jobs, but they're forced towork against their will and a
(04:05):
lot of times, without no pay.
Often we'll see these migrantworkers working for 12 hours a
day and with very little breaks,and the conditions they're
living in is like slave-likeconditions.
So that's why they call itmodern-day slavery.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
So I think a lot of you think slavery, and you sort
of think, oh, you know, we'repast that now and it's really,
it's quite shocking and quiteupsetting when you talk about
numbers of that scale.
But you obviously havefirsthand experience of this, of
(04:46):
this, and I hoped that youcould share a little bit of your
, of your personal testimony, um, and obviously how, how that
sort of spurred you into intothe career and the life that you
have now yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Just let's go back a little bit now.
You know, I tell my story, um,the story of a little girl
stolen from a family, uh, at theage of seven.
And we're not talking about theslavery of the history books,
but the modern-day system ofslavery that traffics human
beings.
So, again, my name is Rani andI am from a small village in
(05:14):
southern part of India, inKerala, and I was stolen from my
family when I was again sevenyears old.
Can we imagine a little girlthat was so vulnerable, that
didn't have any position and anystrength of?
Really, we're just talkingabout a little girl.
And I remember when I was takenacross the state border,
(05:39):
because that's what traffickingis Traffickers take advantage of
the vulnerability and then take, and in my case they took me
across the state border.
So after I was kidnapped frommy mother, then sold, then taken
, transported we call ittransported to this other state
right next door, you know, inIndia, another state, but enough
(06:01):
that they take away my, theytook away my ability to be able
to speak because I didn't knowthe language.
I was afraid and I was aloneand I was very disoriented
because I didn't know what washappening.
But what I remember again as aseven-year-old girl crying for
my mother and she didn't comeand I couldn't understand why
(06:23):
didn't my mother come to rescueme?
And then later I found out I'mwith this people who really
didn't care who I was, becausein human trafficking and we call
child trafficking thetraffickers really just see the
numbers.
They're looking for the profit.
So in my case they justliterally put children to work
(06:48):
working in brick clans and thenlater they realized they could
make more money in otherindustries.
So they actually were usingother children that I was with
into other industries and theywould recruit them from the rail
stations to the bus stations,wherever they can find a child.
That's where they would do therecruitment.
And in my case they've got mefrom a supposedly you know from
(07:13):
one orphanage and they trafficme for another orphanage into
another orphanage.
So of course there's a lot ofabuse that happened and then my
body just deteriorated.
They said I wasn't functional,I couldn't do anything, I
couldn't work anymore.
Therefore they needed to findone more profit.
(07:34):
Remember we're talking aboutchild trafficking in the illegal
activity.
It's a criminal activity.
Later we'll go into more whatthat looks like.
It's a criminal activity, andlater we'll go into more kind of
what that looks like, but in myown case it was part of a
criminal network.
Underground right and orphanagetrafficking is a terminology we
use, and so in my case, you know, because I distorted everything
(07:59):
, they then sold me forinternational adoption into the
United States.
But the routes that we talkabout is that I came from India
and they put me in transit,which is called transit country,
which was Canada, and then myCanada into the United States is
the destination country.
(08:21):
But when we look at those routesof trafficking there are so
many of them, right, butinternational trafficking is a
very well-known crime and so inmy case, that's what my
traffickers used.
They used the advantage of weak, sometimes border, you know
borders or weak laws, and at thetime Canada did not have laws
(08:45):
against this crime, right, andeven in fact, the United States
didn't have a law and a statelevel was not illegal until a
lot further we made it a crime.
But in my own personal story Itell you all this because there
are millions of other littlegirls like I was imprisoned,
(09:07):
silenced and unable to speak,but today I have the opportunity
to be able to raise awarenessabout this issue and to talk to
you, julia, and to your audienceabout this activity, and our
goal today is to be able to givethe information to our audience
and so we can all be educatedand be able to take action.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
And we so appreciate it.
And I think that at our eventsrecently, you know people
listening in the audience,particularly people who have
children.
I think you sort of see theirlook of shock on their faces and
just thinking, oh my God, youknow if this was my kid on, you
know if this was my kid, um, Ithink it really your, your
testimony really brings it home.
But I think as well when yousay and I know that that things
(09:51):
have moved on a little bityou're saying that you know
things have been made a crimethat previously weren't a crime.
But the transit routes and the,the cross-border payments that
are made in this industry.
This is a sophisticatedindustry like.
This isn't some kind of gangjust running around by
themselves.
These are coordinated, multiplelocations, um, they have
(10:12):
networks and it is a veryorganized crime, um, and it's
quite, it's, it's quite, I guess, fascinating, shocking, just to
learn the scale when you'retalking about millions of people
.
This isn't, this isn't justhappening in pockets of the
world.
This is happening everywhereand so it.
So it's something that we wantto help raise awareness of it as
well.
And I guess, a little bit aboutyou know, you obviously were
(10:34):
adopted in the United States andyou reside in the United States
today.
Was there any resolution?
If I can ask, in terms of yourcase, in terms of family, in
terms of was there any kind ofrepercussion for the gangs who
were involved in your case?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
You know, in my own case, I believe, yes, one of the
traffickers did get caught andactually jailed.
So I was lucky, right, becausenot all cases are prosecution or
the traffickers may not becaught, because, again, it's
criminal activity and thecriminals don't report, right,
(11:15):
they don't report the numbersand that's why we have such a
difficult time, you know,finding numbers.
But criminal activity is is oneof those things that when the
traffickers get away with someof them, you know, a lot of
times many countries have a hardtime prosecuting the
traffickers.
But in my case, yes, they wereput to jail.
(11:39):
I'm not sure of the fulldetails of that information, but
I do know that.
But again, it's a criminalnetwork, right, so it's more
than one person involved.
So often when we look atcriminal networks, right, we
talk about relationships and theconnections, especially when
(12:00):
we're looking at the data, wetry to connect that.
And so some of thesetraffickers are, they run it
like a business, right?
So that means they hire otherpeople.
So in the case of humantrafficking, they hire
transporters, right, that's ajob, somebody's specific job, to
transport these children aroundto the various locations, as I
(12:23):
said.
But then they give other jobs,so it's not a silo, one person.
It is a network of people andworking for a business that's
illegal, and so in my own caseI'm happy that it did get you
know the issue came up but,again, not all cases have been
(12:44):
prosecuted.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
You got you and obviously your experience led
you to founding Freedom Seal andobviously you gave testimony at
the United Nations.
I wondered if you could share alittle bit about how Freedom
Seal came about, your experiencewith working with the UN and
the impact that that's havingtoday.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
You know in my case, I was able to like in 2010,.
I went before the UN GeneralAssembly right and to ask for
help and to make this make it acrime all over the world if
there wasn't and sometimes we'llsee the being at a crime at a
country level, at a nationallevel, but not necessarily at a
state level.
So when I went before the UN, Ihad done many speeches and
(13:30):
we'll talk about, you know, oneof my speeches being with World
Day that's coming up on July30th.
But, specifically, we know thatthere need to be solutions.
So, after working at the,collaborating with the UN for
several years, I realized Ineeded to pivot and go and speak
(13:51):
to the private industry,because I felt like the private
industry was not always includedin the conversations.
However, we know the privatesector can also be good right
with using the power of of thatsector to be able to raise
awareness on this issue, but notonly raise awareness, but to
really look at supply chains.
So Freedom Sale Global, what Ido today is I partnered and I
(14:15):
helped develop technology andsoftware that aligns with, such
as LexisNexis, to be able toidentify the victims, but to
identify and prevent this crime.
So Freedom Cell Global's mainmission is to be able to work
with companies side by side, andwe provide services, whether
(14:40):
it's building compliance plans,whether it's consulting
companies or individuals on theissue.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
we feel that solutions need to be brought to
the table, and that isspecifically what I have taken
on in most recent years withFreedom Cell Global no, it's
great work and we're going totalk a little bit about some of
the actions that obviously theprivate sector and some of our
listeners can take.
But I think first of all couldwe go into some of the.
(15:11):
You know how I said it at thestart of the podcast people
don't necessarily think thatthis is happening in their
backyard.
They don't necessarily, they'renot necessarily aware of the
industries that this is touching.
Could you give some examples ofsome of the real kind of modern
day, whether it's hot spots,industries, examples of where
this is happening, just sopeople are more aware of what
(15:33):
may be happening in theircommunities or their countries?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, you know, when we talk about the sectors, again
, there is no one sector.
I believe all sectors areaffected by this crime, but it's
often hidden and so it's hardto identify that.
But what we do know today isthat let's take an example
construction sites.
Absolutely, construction sitesare being used.
Some of them not all of them,I'm not saying, but some of them
(15:59):
are being used as a front forhuman trafficking.
So in our industry, you know,let's just take an example of
maybe it's a bank, maybe it's abank that's giving a loan to
their customer, they might askdocumentation from that
particular customer, but theydon't always ask further
(16:20):
questions about what are theydoing.
And so, especially within thefinancial institutions, we, yes,
we work with the customer, butwe also need to ask questions on
the customers, customers,because that's often where human
trafficking can take place, andso, in the form of construction
, it can be a front, and thenunderneath that, they're just
(16:42):
using that money for illegalactivity.
So that's one, but let's talkabout another sector that I've
just more recently working withis the waste sector.
Right, we talk about wastesector, you know, we talk about
ESG and we talk about the social, the but the E for
environmental but the waste site, waste workers in recycling,
(17:05):
and so often we see childrenbeing used to be child waste
pickers, and so that's a form,because in that industry and in
that business, children arebeing used to pick up, whether
it's your plastic, butunderneath they're forced to
work.
They're working the 12, 13 hourdays and they surely don't get
(17:29):
paid because they're children,right, the traffickers obviously
use them.
So that's another sector thatwe don't think about.
But in all of this there's data, right, there is data.
We need to be able to collectthat data, and so part of the
challenge is how do we collectthe data to be informed, right,
we talk about know yourcustomers, but, and so we talk
(17:51):
about how do we, how do we datacollection?
Right, and so some of thosethings is what I'm working on
and creating the software andtools that help that specific
sector.
We talk about other sectorsmassage parlors, right, a lot of
that service can also be used.
We talk about orphanagetrafficking and the other thing
(18:14):
one of the other ones it's notas common today but as child
soldiers.
You know, my husband wasrecruited to be a child soldier,
so that was a form of humantrafficking.
My husband was recruited to bea child soldier, so that was a
form of human trafficking, buthopefully our countries have
been working to eliminate that.
But yeah, so many differentindustries, because this crime
(18:37):
sees no barriers, right, theydon't see any boundaries, it is
whatever they can get profitfrom illegal activity.
That's what human traffickingis and we'll go a little further
later, down, you know, in thesupply chains.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
But again, many different industries yeah, so
the people aren't people anymore, they're a commodity and it's a
case of making the money andit's um.
No, I'm glad that you mentionedthe data point and that's that's
one thing that we, we can help.
Um, whether there's financialinstitutions or corporates, you
know we provide data whichincludes adverse media, and so
(19:17):
if somebody has adverse mediaagainst them, if there has been,
you know, a charge of of humantrafficking upon slavery, if
there's been a charge of humantrafficking, of modern slavery,
if there's been investigations,if there have been enforcements,
that information, it isavailable and I think it's just
a case of running some of thosechecks.
So I guess, if there'senlistors here today who are,
they are in financialinstitutions, they are looking
(19:38):
after KYC programs, supply chainchecks, anti-money laundering
checks.
Is there anything that youwould suggest to them to look
out for in terms of red flags,what would indicate, you know,
potential human trafficking?
Is there anything that theyshould be more vigilant on in
terms of you mentioned a coupleof sectors, I guess, just red
(20:01):
flags, really, anything thatthey need to be aware of just to
help improve the efficiency ofsome of those checks and some of
those programs.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yes, you know red flags is sometimes they stick
out sometimes but we don't lookat it close enough.
But what we know today in youknow the data I believe the data
that Lexis has we'll be able to.
We look at that data.
But then that's to help theclient right, solve, know your
customer.
But when you look about let'stake an example again the
(20:31):
financial industry, the banks,again, within the banks, they
may just see money coming in,money coming out, they don't
think much of it.
But what we need to do is lookcloser.
We talk, you know transactionmonitoring.
What we need to look at is forsuspicious behavior within the
(20:51):
transactions.
So we might say you know money,someone may come up, open up an
account and they may keep thataccount dormant.
They may not use it for severalmonths and then all of a sudden
they're using it four times aday to transfer money in and out
.
So that's a red flag, right,because we don't think, okay,
(21:12):
they're just doing theirbusiness, but that's unusual.
So that's a red flag that whenmoney is being moved many times
and often, and then especiallyif a particular customer's in
the business, let's just say,let's say in you know the
specific industry, let's say,and then they putting the money
(21:32):
to something else completelydifferent, outside of their
business?
We would just question it.
We just need to look at that alittle closer.
So the compliance officers inbanks and in in in manufacturing
and such just need to look moredetailed and we can see these
red flags.
And of course, I have beenworking on this for 25 years so
(21:53):
I've been able to identify thesered flags and human trafficking
fairly quickly because I knowthem Right.
But some of the other ones isyou, you know, and then
sometimes they open the accountand then they just um, try to
avoid detention.
So they'll do other patterns,various patterns, so you can't
(22:13):
figure it out.
So we just as complianceofficers, those who are looking
at that, we need to look atthose.
Our controls right, the controlswithin our banks do.
Are we up to par?
Do?
Are we following the policy?
Um, are we looking at the wiretransfers right?
The other one could be a wiretransfer.
Maybe this is a huge amount ofchunk of money that is being
(22:34):
transferred to a country theynever the customer really
doesn't do any business on.
So again, that's a red flag.
So several activities point tothis, point to the red flags and
we just need to be able toidentify based on your industry.
But within the financialindustry specifically, I think
(22:55):
the transactions give us abigger picture yeah, it's, it's,
we've.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
We've got some interesting um information,
which I'll include a link in theshow notes.
There's some really interestingstuff when you were talking
about um accounts being openedand then sort of multiple
transactions all happening atthe same time.
And we've got some interestingresearch on money mules, um,
because that can obviouslyindicate that which, which is
another element of humantrafficking, modern slavery.
Um, and I guess, final, finalpiece of advice, you know we've
(23:23):
talked about what people can doin their professional roles,
what can people do asindividuals.
So you know, listening to thispodcast, and you sort of think,
okay, well, I, I can'tnecessarily change my compliance
program in a bank, um, what canI do as an individual to help
fight this problem?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
you know, as an individual, we can all be
vigilant about the issue, we canall be aware of it.
But once we're educated, weneed to take action.
And the specific actions that,if you're an individual working
in the company, we want to raisethis issue saying, hey, I see
some things that are suspiciousor some activity that I don't
(24:02):
quite understand, get anothercolleague to look at it.
Right, it doesn't hurt to havea second set of eyes to look for
this.
And then, as an individual, youraise it within your own.
You know, at home, you knowwith your family, especially
protecting children.
Right, we want to educate thechildren as much as we can, age
(24:22):
appropriately, but you knowthese are things that happen
anywhere in the world and wejust make sure the children know
what to do.
Protection.
And then, thirdly, I think, asindividuals, join, maybe it's a
(24:43):
forum or a group or somebodythat can also work on the issue
to prevent, for prevent humantrafficking.
I think, then, as businesses,you know, as a business and
individuals, there's also, let'ssay, you're working in a
garment industry or a factory orsomething just be aware what
(25:05):
the red flags could be withinthe garment industry.
That's another industry, but,again, to be able to get data is
helping us so much more than weever had before.
So getting the right data andfrom the right partner with the
accurate and good quality datais very important, and so I
(25:27):
think looking at those datapoints to paint the picture will
definitely help us to lookwithin the supply chains right.
I work a lot on working withcompanies and banks and
financials looking at their ownsupply chain.
So, as someone working in thoseindustries, you want to be able
(25:49):
to you know, get screeningtools.
It's so important.
Today we say you know, knowyour customer or know your
supplier we use a lot ofdifferent terms to be able to
describe that but it isimportant to have the right
screening, right Screening tooland then know how to use those
tools with your vendors, yoursuppliers and anyone you're
(26:14):
doing business with In reality.
I mean just even to know theshareholder.
If you're purchasing a business, know the shareholder, the
history.
Right On surface, it may onlycertain information may show up,
but once we use some of thesescreening tools, we're able to
find out who are the peps, whoare the ones who may be involved
(26:35):
or have been involved inillegal activity and, of course,
you want to protect yourself ofthat.
So there's various ways thatfrom companies and individuals
can use, you know, the tools todetect this crime and the other
thing is generate onlineevidence right about the crime.
So when you're speaking, whenyou maybe have to report to the
(26:58):
regulatory, have the right tools, have the right software, right
technology to be able to aidyou so you can do this reporting
.
And again, I know lexus can uhhelp with this and I have
freedom, so global can also helpum with some of the solutions,
uh in partnerships, um.
But yeah, those are things thatwe definitely can do and must
(27:20):
do to really to help especiallychildren around the world like
myself, but also just for beinga good human.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
No, absolutely, and for anybody interested, we'll
include links to some of theinformation around tools, data
sets and also to freedomsealcom,which is the organization you
can learn a little bit moreabout that.
We'll include all of thosenotes in the show notes.
Ronnie, thank you so much forjoining.
It's been such a privilege tohear your story and I'm sure
(27:51):
that the listeners will havetaken great value from this
today.
So thank you Great.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
You're welcome, julia , and it was great to be able to
do this podcast with you, and Ihope your audience will enjoy
this conversation and beeducated, and that was a really
good one.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
So thank you again for this opportunity, and thank
you to all of our listeners.
We hope that you enjoyed thisepisode of the RegTech Pulse.
We hope you found itinteresting and we look forward
to speaking to you again verysoon.
Hi everyone, welcome back to the Red Tech Pulse.
You're here with Julia andtoday we have a very special
episode to mark July 30th, whichis World Day Against the
Trafficking in People.
I am very honoured to be joinedby Rani Hong, who is the CEO of
Freedom Seal.
This is the organisation behindthe first global mark of trust
which is awarded to companieswho are committed to the
reduction of forced labour andassociated financial crimes, as
(00:34):
well as human rights abuse.
As a child, rani was kidnappedand sold into slavery.
As a former UN Special Advisoron Human Trafficking in 2015,
she participated in the UNGA toAid in Development of the 2030
Sustainable Strategy and Policy.
Rani was India's Woman of theYear in 2018, and she is a
credible voice behind the issueof forced labour and related
(00:57):
financial crimes.
So, rani, thank you so much forjoining me today.
I'm really really pleased tohave you on this episode.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Great.
Thank you, julia, and I lookforward to our conversation and
raising awareness on this issue.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Absolutely so.
You spoke at a couple of ourrecent events and it's an
incredible story.
But I wondered if, before weget into that, maybe if you
could just introduce yourself alittle bit, and particularly
some of the work that you dowith Freedom Seal.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Yes, my name is Ronnie Ronnie Hong and I am the
CEO of Freedom Seal Global.
I am based here in the SeattleWashington USA area, and Freedom
Seal's goal is to be able tohelp companies be proactive when
it comes to preventing forcedlabor within their supply chains
.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
And a little bit about the nature of the problem,
because I think sometimespeople you know forced labor,
human trafficking, modernslavery it's terms which people
sometimes use interchangeably.
A little bit about, maybe, whatsome of the definitions are and
also some of the numbers of theproblem and the scale of the
problem, because I think thatit's a lot more prevalent than a
(02:04):
lot of people would know orwould like to think it is.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, you're right, julia, there are a lot of
different terms that are beingused and could be a little
confusing, and so, to clarifyfor your users, we use the term
human trafficking, and that'sexactly selling, buying or
selling people for a profit.
That's exactly, you know,selling, buying or selling
people for a profit.
And in those in the slavery wecall it modern day slavery is
(02:31):
another term we use, and that's,you know, today's world, or
what people understand.
But what we know is that thisissue is more than just a number
, right, it's a real human face,and so I have partnered with
many around the world, and,according to the International
Labor Organization, theyestimate 20.9 million people are
(02:57):
victims of forced labor at anypoint, and this represents about
three in every 1,000 of today'sworld population.
And then, of these, 90% areexploited by private individuals
and enterprises.
We also know other figures, as50 million slaves in the world
overall, right, so we havedifferent people, different
(03:20):
trafficking within differentsectors, and so sometimes their
numbers and stats are slightlydifferent, but that gives you
the global scope of the problem.
But you might ask, well, who arethese victims, right, and what
makes them vulnerable to forcedlabor?
And well, what he said, theother term is forced labor.
Forced labor affects allpopulations, it's groups, it's
(03:44):
young people, it's old, male,female, but some of these groups
are more vulnerable than theothers.
So and then we talk about, youknow, we talk about the migrant
workers who are brought in tocountries to do certain types of
jobs, but they're forced towork against their will and a
(04:05):
lot of times, without no pay.
Often we'll see these migrantworkers working for 12 hours a
day and with very little breaks,and the conditions they're
living in is like slave-likeconditions.
So that's why they call itmodern-day slavery.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
So I think a lot of you think slavery, and you sort
of think, oh, you know, we'repast that now and it's really,
it's quite shocking and quiteupsetting when you talk about
numbers of that scale.
But you obviously havefirsthand experience of this, of
(04:46):
this, and I hoped that youcould share a little bit of your
, of your personal testimony, um, and obviously how, how that
sort of spurred you into intothe career and the life that you
have now yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Just let's go back a little bit now.
You know, I tell my story, um,the story of a little girl
stolen from a family, uh, at theage of seven.
And we're not talking about theslavery of the history books,
but the modern-day system ofslavery that traffics human
beings.
So, again, my name is Rani andI am from a small village in
(05:14):
southern part of India, inKerala, and I was stolen from my
family when I was again sevenyears old.
Can we imagine a little girlthat was so vulnerable, that
didn't have any position and anystrength of?
Really, we're just talkingabout a little girl.
And I remember when I was takenacross the state border,
(05:39):
because that's what traffickingis Traffickers take advantage of
the vulnerability and then take, and in my case they took me
across the state border.
So after I was kidnapped frommy mother, then sold, then taken
, transported we call ittransported to this other state
right next door, you know, inIndia, another state, but enough
(06:01):
that they take away my, theytook away my ability to be able
to speak because I didn't knowthe language.
I was afraid and I was aloneand I was very disoriented
because I didn't know what washappening.
But what I remember again as aseven-year-old girl crying for
my mother and she didn't comeand I couldn't understand why
(06:23):
didn't my mother come to rescueme?
And then later I found out I'mwith this people who really
didn't care who I was, becausein human trafficking and we call
child trafficking thetraffickers really just see the
numbers.
They're looking for the profit.
So in my case they justliterally put children to work
(06:48):
working in brick clans and thenlater they realized they could
make more money in otherindustries.
So they actually were usingother children that I was with
into other industries and theywould recruit them from the rail
stations to the bus stations,wherever they can find a child.
That's where they would do therecruitment.
And in my case they've got mefrom a supposedly you know from
(07:13):
one orphanage and they trafficme for another orphanage into
another orphanage.
So of course there's a lot ofabuse that happened and then my
body just deteriorated.
They said I wasn't functional,I couldn't do anything, I
couldn't work anymore.
Therefore they needed to findone more profit.
(07:34):
Remember we're talking aboutchild trafficking in the illegal
activity.
It's a criminal activity.
Later we'll go into more whatthat looks like.
It's a criminal activity, andlater we'll go into more kind of
what that looks like, but in myown case it was part of a
criminal network.
Underground right and orphanagetrafficking is a terminology we
use, and so in my case, you know, because I distorted everything
(07:59):
, they then sold me forinternational adoption into the
United States.
But the routes that we talkabout is that I came from India
and they put me in transit,which is called transit country,
which was Canada, and then myCanada into the United States is
the destination country.
(08:21):
But when we look at those routesof trafficking there are so
many of them, right, butinternational trafficking is a
very well-known crime and so inmy case, that's what my
traffickers used.
They used the advantage of weak, sometimes border, you know
borders or weak laws, and at thetime Canada did not have laws
(08:45):
against this crime, right, andeven in fact, the United States
didn't have a law and a statelevel was not illegal until a
lot further we made it a crime.
But in my own personal story Itell you all this because there
are millions of other littlegirls like I was imprisoned,
(09:07):
silenced and unable to speak,but today I have the opportunity
to be able to raise awarenessabout this issue and to talk to
you, julia, and to your audienceabout this activity, and our
goal today is to be able to givethe information to our audience
and so we can all be educatedand be able to take action.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
And we so appreciate it.
And I think that at our eventsrecently, you know people
listening in the audience,particularly people who have
children.
I think you sort of see theirlook of shock on their faces and
just thinking, oh my God, youknow if this was my kid on, you
know if this was my kid, um, Ithink it really your, your
testimony really brings it home.
But I think as well when yousay and I know that that things
(09:51):
have moved on a little bityou're saying that you know
things have been made a crimethat previously weren't a crime.
But the transit routes and the,the cross-border payments that
are made in this industry.
This is a sophisticatedindustry like.
This isn't some kind of gangjust running around by
themselves.
These are coordinated, multiplelocations, um, they have
(10:12):
networks and it is a veryorganized crime, um, and it's
quite, it's, it's quite, I guess, fascinating, shocking, just to
learn the scale when you'retalking about millions of people
.
This isn't, this isn't justhappening in pockets of the
world.
This is happening everywhereand so it.
So it's something that we wantto help raise awareness of it as
well.
And I guess, a little bit aboutyou know, you obviously were
(10:34):
adopted in the United States andyou reside in the United States
today.
Was there any resolution?
If I can ask, in terms of yourcase, in terms of family, in
terms of was there any kind ofrepercussion for the gangs who
were involved in your case?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
You know, in my own case, I believe, yes, one of the
traffickers did get caught andactually jailed.
So I was lucky, right, becausenot all cases are prosecution or
the traffickers may not becaught, because, again, it's
criminal activity and thecriminals don't report, right,
(11:15):
they don't report the numbersand that's why we have such a
difficult time, you know,finding numbers.
But criminal activity is is oneof those things that when the
traffickers get away with someof them, you know, a lot of
times many countries have a hardtime prosecuting the
traffickers.
But in my case, yes, they wereput to jail.
(11:39):
I'm not sure of the fulldetails of that information, but
I do know that.
But again, it's a criminalnetwork, right, so it's more
than one person involved.
So often when we look atcriminal networks, right, we
talk about relationships and theconnections, especially when
(12:00):
we're looking at the data, wetry to connect that.
And so some of thesetraffickers are, they run it
like a business, right?
So that means they hire otherpeople.
So in the case of humantrafficking, they hire
transporters, right, that's ajob, somebody's specific job, to
transport these children aroundto the various locations, as I
(12:23):
said.
But then they give other jobs,so it's not a silo, one person.
It is a network of people andworking for a business that's
illegal, and so in my own caseI'm happy that it did get you
know the issue came up but,again, not all cases have been
(12:44):
prosecuted.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
You got you and obviously your experience led
you to founding Freedom Seal andobviously you gave testimony at
the United Nations.
I wondered if you could share alittle bit about how Freedom
Seal came about, your experiencewith working with the UN and
the impact that that's havingtoday.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
You know in my case, I was able to like in 2010,.
I went before the UN GeneralAssembly right and to ask for
help and to make this make it acrime all over the world if
there wasn't and sometimes we'llsee the being at a crime at a
country level, at a nationallevel, but not necessarily at a
state level.
So when I went before the UN, Ihad done many speeches and
(13:30):
we'll talk about, you know, oneof my speeches being with World
Day that's coming up on July30th.
But, specifically, we know thatthere need to be solutions.
So, after working at the,collaborating with the UN for
several years, I realized Ineeded to pivot and go and speak
(13:51):
to the private industry,because I felt like the private
industry was not always includedin the conversations.
However, we know the privatesector can also be good right
with using the power of of thatsector to be able to raise
awareness on this issue, but notonly raise awareness, but to
really look at supply chains.
So Freedom Sale Global, what Ido today is I partnered and I
(14:15):
helped develop technology andsoftware that aligns with, such
as LexisNexis, to be able toidentify the victims, but to
identify and prevent this crime.
So Freedom Cell Global's mainmission is to be able to work
with companies side by side, andwe provide services, whether
(14:40):
it's building compliance plans,whether it's consulting
companies or individuals on theissue.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
we feel that solutions need to be brought to
the table, and that isspecifically what I have taken
on in most recent years withFreedom Cell Global no, it's
great work and we're going totalk a little bit about some of
the actions that obviously theprivate sector and some of our
listeners can take.
But I think first of all couldwe go into some of the.
(15:11):
You know how I said it at thestart of the podcast people
don't necessarily think thatthis is happening in their
backyard.
They don't necessarily, they'renot necessarily aware of the
industries that this is touching.
Could you give some examples ofsome of the real kind of modern
day, whether it's hot spots,industries, examples of where
this is happening, just sopeople are more aware of what
(15:33):
may be happening in theircommunities or their countries?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, you know, when we talk about the sectors, again
, there is no one sector.
I believe all sectors areaffected by this crime, but it's
often hidden and so it's hardto identify that.
But what we do know today isthat let's take an example
construction sites.
Absolutely, construction sitesare being used.
Some of them not all of them,I'm not saying, but some of them
(15:59):
are being used as a front forhuman trafficking.
So in our industry, you know,let's just take an example of
maybe it's a bank, maybe it's abank that's giving a loan to
their customer, they might askdocumentation from that
particular customer, but theydon't always ask further
(16:20):
questions about what are theydoing.
And so, especially within thefinancial institutions, we, yes,
we work with the customer, butwe also need to ask questions on
the customers, customers,because that's often where human
trafficking can take place, andso, in the form of construction
, it can be a front, and thenunderneath that, they're just
(16:42):
using that money for illegalactivity.
So that's one, but let's talkabout another sector that I've
just more recently working withis the waste sector.
Right, we talk about wastesector, you know, we talk about
ESG and we talk about the social, the but the E for
environmental but the waste site, waste workers in recycling,
(17:05):
and so often we see childrenbeing used to be child waste
pickers, and so that's a form,because in that industry and in
that business, children arebeing used to pick up, whether
it's your plastic, butunderneath they're forced to
work.
They're working the 12, 13 hourdays and they surely don't get
(17:29):
paid because they're children,right, the traffickers obviously
use them.
So that's another sector thatwe don't think about.
But in all of this there's data, right, there is data.
We need to be able to collectthat data, and so part of the
challenge is how do we collectthe data to be informed, right,
we talk about know yourcustomers, but, and so we talk
(17:51):
about how do we, how do we datacollection?
Right, and so some of thosethings is what I'm working on
and creating the software andtools that help that specific
sector.
We talk about other sectorsmassage parlors, right, a lot of
that service can also be used.
We talk about orphanagetrafficking and the other thing
(18:14):
one of the other ones it's notas common today but as child
soldiers.
You know, my husband wasrecruited to be a child soldier,
so that was a form of humantrafficking.
My husband was recruited to bea child soldier, so that was a
form of human trafficking, buthopefully our countries have
been working to eliminate that.
But yeah, so many differentindustries, because this crime
(18:37):
sees no barriers, right, theydon't see any boundaries, it is
whatever they can get profitfrom illegal activity.
That's what human traffickingis and we'll go a little further
later, down, you know, in thesupply chains.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
But again, many different industries yeah, so
the people aren't people anymore, they're a commodity and it's a
case of making the money andit's um.
No, I'm glad that you mentionedthe data point and that's that's
one thing that we, we can help.
Um, whether there's financialinstitutions or corporates, you
know we provide data whichincludes adverse media, and so
(19:17):
if somebody has adverse mediaagainst them, if there has been,
you know, a charge of of humantrafficking upon slavery, if
there's been a charge of humantrafficking, of modern slavery,
if there's been investigations,if there have been enforcements,
that information, it isavailable and I think it's just
a case of running some of thosechecks.
So I guess, if there'senlistors here today who are,
they are in financialinstitutions, they are looking
(19:38):
after KYC programs, supply chainchecks, anti-money laundering
checks.
Is there anything that youwould suggest to them to look
out for in terms of red flags,what would indicate, you know,
potential human trafficking?
Is there anything that theyshould be more vigilant on in
terms of you mentioned a coupleof sectors, I guess, just red
(20:01):
flags, really, anything thatthey need to be aware of just to
help improve the efficiency ofsome of those checks and some of
those programs.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yes, you know red flags is sometimes they stick
out sometimes but we don't lookat it close enough.
But what we know today in youknow the data I believe the data
that Lexis has we'll be able to.
We look at that data.
But then that's to help theclient right, solve, know your
customer.
But when you look about let'stake an example again the
(20:31):
financial industry, the banks,again, within the banks, they
may just see money coming in,money coming out, they don't
think much of it.
But what we need to do is lookcloser.
We talk, you know transactionmonitoring.
What we need to look at is forsuspicious behavior within the
(20:51):
transactions.
So we might say you know money,someone may come up, open up an
account and they may keep thataccount dormant.
They may not use it for severalmonths and then all of a sudden
they're using it four times aday to transfer money in and out
.
So that's a red flag, right,because we don't think, okay,
(21:12):
they're just doing theirbusiness, but that's unusual.
So that's a red flag that whenmoney is being moved many times
and often, and then especiallyif a particular customer's in
the business, let's just say,let's say in you know the
specific industry, let's say,and then they putting the money
(21:32):
to something else completelydifferent, outside of their
business?
We would just question it.
We just need to look at that alittle closer.
So the compliance officers inbanks and in in in manufacturing
and such just need to look moredetailed and we can see these
red flags.
And of course, I have beenworking on this for 25 years so
(21:53):
I've been able to identify thesered flags and human trafficking
fairly quickly because I knowthem Right.
But some of the other ones isyou, you know, and then
sometimes they open the accountand then they just um, try to
avoid detention.
So they'll do other patterns,various patterns, so you can't
(22:13):
figure it out.
So we just as complianceofficers, those who are looking
at that, we need to look atthose.
Our controls right, the controlswithin our banks do.
Are we up to par?
Do?
Are we following the policy?
Um, are we looking at the wiretransfers right?
The other one could be a wiretransfer.
Maybe this is a huge amount ofchunk of money that is being
(22:34):
transferred to a country theynever the customer really
doesn't do any business on.
So again, that's a red flag.
So several activities point tothis, point to the red flags and
we just need to be able toidentify based on your industry.
But within the financialindustry specifically, I think
(22:55):
the transactions give us abigger picture yeah, it's, it's,
we've.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
We've got some interesting um information,
which I'll include a link in theshow notes.
There's some really interestingstuff when you were talking
about um accounts being openedand then sort of multiple
transactions all happening atthe same time.
And we've got some interestingresearch on money mules, um,
because that can obviouslyindicate that which, which is
another element of humantrafficking, modern slavery.
Um, and I guess, final, finalpiece of advice, you know we've
(23:23):
talked about what people can doin their professional roles,
what can people do asindividuals.
So you know, listening to thispodcast, and you sort of think,
okay, well, I, I can'tnecessarily change my compliance
program in a bank, um, what canI do as an individual to help
fight this problem?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
you know, as an individual, we can all be
vigilant about the issue, we canall be aware of it.
But once we're educated, weneed to take action.
And the specific actions that,if you're an individual working
in the company, we want to raisethis issue saying, hey, I see
some things that are suspiciousor some activity that I don't
(24:02):
quite understand, get anothercolleague to look at it.
Right, it doesn't hurt to havea second set of eyes to look for
this.
And then, as an individual, youraise it within your own.
You know, at home, you knowwith your family, especially
protecting children.
Right, we want to educate thechildren as much as we can, age
(24:22):
appropriately, but you knowthese are things that happen
anywhere in the world and wejust make sure the children know
what to do.
Protection.
And then, thirdly, I think, asindividuals, join, maybe it's a
(24:43):
forum or a group or somebodythat can also work on the issue
to prevent, for prevent humantrafficking.
I think, then, as businesses,you know, as a business and
individuals, there's also, let'ssay, you're working in a
garment industry or a factory orsomething just be aware what
(25:05):
the red flags could be withinthe garment industry.
That's another industry, but,again, to be able to get data is
helping us so much more than weever had before.
So getting the right data andfrom the right partner with the
accurate and good quality datais very important, and so I
(25:27):
think looking at those datapoints to paint the picture will
definitely help us to lookwithin the supply chains right.
I work a lot on working withcompanies and banks and
financials looking at their ownsupply chain.
So, as someone working in thoseindustries, you want to be able
(25:49):
to you know, get screeningtools.
It's so important.
Today we say you know, knowyour customer or know your
supplier we use a lot ofdifferent terms to be able to
describe that but it isimportant to have the right
screening, right Screening tooland then know how to use those
tools with your vendors, yoursuppliers and anyone you're
(26:14):
doing business with In reality.
I mean just even to know theshareholder.
If you're purchasing a business, know the shareholder, the
history.
Right On surface, it may onlycertain information may show up,
but once we use some of thesescreening tools, we're able to
find out who are the peps, whoare the ones who may be involved
(26:35):
or have been involved inillegal activity and, of course,
you want to protect yourself ofthat.
So there's various ways thatfrom companies and individuals
can use, you know, the tools todetect this crime and the other
thing is generate onlineevidence right about the crime.
So when you're speaking, whenyou maybe have to report to the
(26:58):
regulatory, have the right tools, have the right software, right
technology to be able to aidyou so you can do this reporting
.
And again, I know lexus can uhhelp with this and I have
freedom, so global can also helpum with some of the solutions,
uh in partnerships, um.
But yeah, those are things thatwe definitely can do and must
(27:20):
do to really to help especiallychildren around the world like
myself, but also just for beinga good human.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
No, absolutely, and for anybody interested, we'll
include links to some of theinformation around tools, data
sets and also to freedomsealcom,which is the organization you
can learn a little bit moreabout that.
We'll include all of thosenotes in the show notes.
Ronnie, thank you so much forjoining.
It's been such a privilege tohear your story and I'm sure
(27:51):
that the listeners will havetaken great value from this
today.
So thank you Great.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
You're welcome, julia , and it was great to be able to
do this podcast with you, and Ihope your audience will enjoy
this conversation and beeducated, and that was a really
good one.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
So thank you again for this opportunity, and thank
you to all of our listeners.
We hope that you enjoyed thisepisode of the RegTech Pulse.
We hope you found itinteresting and we look forward
to speaking to you again verysoon.
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