July 1, 2025 • 35 mins
In Episode 18 of The Rent-ish Podcast, Zach and Patrick welcome Cincinnati real estate investor and developer John Blatchford to discuss the art of historic building restoration and property transformation. As the founder of Kunst and Cohorts, John has mastered the use of tax incentives and creative financing to turn neglected spaces into vibrant, modern homes. Tune in to hear John’s inspiring journey, discover actionable tips for leveraging tax incentives, and learn how thoughtful restoration can unlock incredible value in real estate. Whether you’re curious about property transformation or looking to start your own restoration project, this episode is packed with insights you won’t want to miss!
Got questions, hot takes, or real estate horror stories of your own? Email us at questions@therentishpod.com—you might just make the next episode.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
What's going on, everyone?
I'm Zach, and I'm here with myco-host, Patrick.
What up?
And we are your hosts for TheRentish Podcast, a podcast
that's kind of about rentalproperties and hosted by two
guys that work in the realestate industry and sort of know
what they're talking about.
But mostly don't.
That's right, Patrick.
(00:21):
Mostly we don't, which is whyyou're going to have fun
listening to us talk to experts.
Hints, hints.
Emphasis on the expert there.
And learning with us or laughingalong at how little we know.
Patrick, how's your day going,buddy?
It's good.
SPEAKER_01 (00:35):
I'm two cups of coffee in today.
SPEAKER_00 (00:36):
Oh, really?
Is that a normal?
No, no.
Two cups, a little extra?
You needed that boost?
I needed the boost.
I needed to be on my bestbehavior with the expert in
town.
I, you know, wanted to make sureenergy levels were high.
Yeah, I got a haircut just forthe occasion.
I was like, I can't be in a roomwith such a professional without
having like a barber dosomething for me.
So, yeah.
Rent-ish.
(00:57):
Before we dive into it, becausewe're joined by a very special
guest, very excited to introducehim to the show.
Remember, follow The Rentish onsocial media.
We're at The Rentish Pod onInstagram.
You can check us out there.
Please follow us.
Check us out there.
You can go to any podcastservice that you use, Spotify,
Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music,and search for The Rentish Pod,
(01:18):
and you're going to find ourshow there.
Hit follow, subscribe, maybegive us a rating or two or three
or comment.
Anything to make producing mesay happy.
He's smiling.
He's smiling very big.
What?
Are we on YouTube?
That's a question for ProducerMoussey.
He's shaking his head no.
So we are not on YouTube.
Okay.
But maybe email questions attherentishpod.com if you would
(01:38):
like us to go to YouTube.
We need to start filming thesemaybe.
Or, well, we could just put upthe sound, I think.
I'm okay with not filming.
SPEAKER_01 (01:46):
You
SPEAKER_00 (01:46):
don't want to be on camera?
I don't
SPEAKER_01 (01:47):
need people to be seeing me when I'm zoning off
into space during our
SPEAKER_00 (01:51):
podcast episodes.
When I'm reading all of theimportant articles and you're
just sitting there like stonecold, staring at the window.
All right, well, that's enoughjibber jabber.
We're joined by a special guest,so we've got to actually get
into it because we're going tohave a lot to talk about today.
In this segment, we're going totalk about real estate
professionals.
That's right, my first property.
(02:39):
But before he built hisimpressive portfolio, he had to
start somewhere.
Today, we're diving into John'svery first property investment,
what he learned, the challengeshe faced, and how that first
purchase shaped his real estatecareer.
John, welcome to the show.
What's up?
Oh, you got a round of applause.
We could add that
SPEAKER_01 (02:57):
in
SPEAKER_00 (02:58):
post.
Thank you.
It's good to have you, man.
Hey,
SPEAKER_01 (02:59):
good to be here.
Thanks for having
SPEAKER_00 (03:01):
me, guys.
Yeah, yeah.
It's going to be a lot of fun.
We're going to get a lot of yourinsight.
I think that certain colleaguesof ours have talked up your tome
of knowledge.
knowledge in terms of the worldof real estate.
SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
Tome.
Good word.
Thank
SPEAKER_00 (03:13):
you.
I think we're excited to divedeep into your journey, your
history, your story.
Was there anything I missed inyour intro blurb that you want
to share with the world aboutyou and who you are?
No, that's basically it.
That's who you are.
We captured you in a paragraph.
I got nothing else.
(03:34):
All right, everyone.
That's the end of the show.
John, you have a unique approachto real estate.
I think that's the least thatcould be said about it.
Focusing on historic buildingsand utilizing tax incentives.
Was that always your plan or didyour first property purchase
kind of shape that directionthat what your career went?
SPEAKER_01 (03:51):
Yeah.
So the first building weultimately bought in 2014 and
probably started working on in2013.
And I was working in downtownCincinnati for a technology
company, actually softwarecompany.
And it was manufacturingsoftware.
So we had installations anddeployments like all around the
which was really awesome.
Went to Chile and Mexico andtrained in Germany and all this
(04:14):
cool stuff.
But yeah, I always likedbuildings.
I liked real estate withoutreally knowing what that meant.
Historic preservation, interiordesign, all the kind of aspects
of real estate that areinteresting.
Yeah, I was kind of interestedin, I would say, my whole life.
And then a very cheap propertybecame available in Over the
Rhine, where we are right now.
So yeah, it was$5,000 in 2014.
(04:36):
What?
Wait, wait, what?
5,000?
5-0-0?
Yeah, so that's, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (04:42):
This is why we need to record for YouTube, because
when he said that, I saw both ofyour eyes expand to about this
big.
Wait, what was the
SPEAKER_01 (04:49):
property?
So it's 1667 Hamer Street.
It's in Over the Rhine nearFindlay Market.
It was a rough area then, andnow it's been 10 years, and it's
still a pretty rough area,although it's changing now.
So yeah, it was really cheap,and it was in really bad shape.
You know, just water comingthrough the ceiling and needed a
lot of masonry repair, and so itneeded a lot.
you know, it was 5,000 to buyand ended up being, you know,
(05:11):
$250,000 to renovate it.
So that's, that's always thecatch.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (05:15):
Where did the bolt, where did the boldness come from
of thinking that you werestanding on that precipice and
like, I can accomplish thisproject?
SPEAKER_01 (05:22):
Yeah.
More, uh, I'd say willfulstupidity or lack of knowledge.
You know, I had a salary at thetime, had a little money saved,
but even, even just do thisfirst project, need to raise
some money.
Um, because we needed like$60,000 of cash, you know, to do
the project.
Uh, and we got a loan you knowfrom a bank for the rest of it
but yeah really just kind ofrolling into it and I would say
(05:43):
like at the beginning it was alot more missionary you know
I've thought a lot about likemissionary versus mercenary and
I think smart people go in theother direction they start very
mercenary make a ton of moneyyou know do whatever I have to
do get the big job do that pathand then you know later you can
kind of move towards somethingyou are more interested in and I
did the missionary first likethis is just a cool old building
(06:04):
I want to renovate it I thinkpeople should live here and put
some random numbers in Excel andmaybe at work, I guess.
SPEAKER_00 (06:11):
Wow.
The way that he
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
speaks so
SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
eloquently about it, it's like, man, it's really that
easy.
Yeah.
Isn't that easy?
Put some random
SPEAKER_01 (06:17):
numbers in Excel and make it work out.
Definitely not easy to start,you know, and then, you know,
you learn the lessons over timeof like, okay, I probably could
have done that a smarter way,but.
Did you know anything about likethe renovation aspects of it
before you purchased theproperty?
Did you just like purchase itand like, all right, we'll
figure out the rest later?
Yeah, I didn't know anything.
I, friends of mine were generalcontractors and so the original
(06:38):
idea was is we would be partnerson the project.
And so they would like discounttheir services, kind of help me
through it.
And then they would get someownership, which, you know,
which they did.
So that was the original idea.
And then really like a year intoit, I had the grand idea that I
didn't need to have a job likethis would be my job.
I'll start my company.
So in 2015, did that basicallyquit my job, went full time into
(06:59):
this and became, you know,became a general contractor,
then kind of just figured outthe construction as we went.
SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
Okay.
How did you decide that it was?
I mean, it sounds like it kindof just fell in You were
motivated.
You saw the property.
You saw the area.
You thought you had a vision forit, but what motivated you to do
it at that specific time?
When did you decide that it wasthe right time to get into it?
SPEAKER_01 (07:22):
Yeah, it was...
Getting more and more interestedin the area, I would say, you
know, with Ryan.
I moved down in 2012.
So, you know, lived pretty closeto the building, was working
downtown.
So just kind of in the area.
And I'm still sort of motivatedin that way, which is like if
you're on a street corner and itjust has good energy and there's
a market over there and like acoffee shop just opened up and
then there's a vacant building,you're just kind of like, well,
(07:42):
this should be someone shouldlive here.
Like certainly somebody wouldpay to live here, you know, it
shouldn't be vacant or itshouldn't be like underutilized.
So, you know, I think you kindof have a sense for like areas
that should be developed and itclearly really was like the
right time and right place.
I mean, to have started in Overthe Rhine in 2012 and 13, just
like the rise it's had in thelast 10 years.
So yeah, it was just really theright time and place, and
(08:02):
obviously the price was right.
You know, I could not haveraised$500,000, but I could
raise$60,000, you know, and thebuilding was available, and near
where I lived, you know, justkind of a confluence of factors.
You know, and then the leap toreally jump full time and quit
my job, that was just like, Ithink I've always wanted to be
an entrepreneur and own my owncompany, and that was, you know,
(08:22):
kind of pursuing that as like a26 year old and I wouldn't
necessarily recommend that likefor my son or anyone else in the
world it's like you know maybemaybe do it on the side for a
little longer maybe save up alittle more money maybe learn
some lessons and then you knowjump but you know that's that's
what I
SPEAKER_00 (08:38):
did it's a success story I mean you made the risk
and it seemed to have paid offfor you so
SPEAKER_01 (08:43):
yeah no it always it just takes time especially in
real estate where it's a lot ofmoney you know that project took
two years to really develop andit was a small building and the
fastest project will take two tothree years so It takes a long
time to kind of learn thelessons.
But yeah, the hope is after, youknow, a lifetime certainly, but
hopefully shorter than that.
You've learned a lot and builtlike a nice business.
SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
Yeah.
Were there any other unexpectedchallenges in that first, like
besides the, you know, wementioned like the, the
construction that you had to doand getting like all of that
taken care of.
But were there any otherchallenges where you weren't
anticipating like, oh crap, nowI have to deal with this?
SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
Yeah, I think I was not prepared for a lot of the
structural repair needed.
You know, we got close to theend and a building inspector
came and was like, yeah, thatbrick wall is jacked.
You gotta like fix that.
So within the last, like, Idon't know, two months of the
building was like an additional$7,000.
She's like, okay, hopefully.
And yeah, I think in general,that's sort of, it's like pretty
(09:39):
by Like if you have the money tofinish the building, people can
live there and pay rent and itworks out.
But if you don't, if you'reshort by$500, like you can't
finish it and people can't livethere, you know?
So like the budgeting andscoping of like the work you
need to do, you know, that'sbeen a major lesson.
But yeah, the masonry was a bigone.
You know, we had to evict a lotof animals, a lot of raccoons,
you know, sorry
SPEAKER_00 (10:01):
to them.
You put in a 30 day notice onthe raccoon store.
SPEAKER_01 (10:06):
I don't want to be the gentrifier, but if the
pigeons aren't paying rent, youYou gotta kick them out.
SPEAKER_00 (10:11):
Patrick,
SPEAKER_01 (10:12):
you got anything?
So as far as like, how did youfirst tackle like renovated in
that sort of way?
Like how did you first find thecontractors and the people who
needed to get the job done andknow all of the different steps
involved?
Yeah.
So, you know, my generalcontractor friends, they were
really helpful.
And I would say one good thingin real estate is like, there
are like everyone you're hiringtheoretically is like a skilled
(10:35):
person that knows what to do.
And so you're like, you need toknow who to contact.
You need to know like what thenext steps are.
like you know does insulationhappen before drywall you know
like there are realconsiderations of like what are
the steps yeah but then once youknow you need like an
electrician it's like there areyou know 20 of those and they
know what to do and theirlicense and you know so yeah my
general contractor friends weregood of like who to contact what
are the next steps and thenfortunately you kind of lean on
(10:57):
all the all the contractors todo their work and then it all
gets inspected you know like bythe city and stuff and so
they're going to come along andtell you like yeah you need to
you need to have an automaticdoor closer on your doors so a
fire doesn't spread and you'relike i didn't know that was a
thing yeah right but you knowlike they're that's what the
building department does are theinspectors um so it's good in
that way like there's a lot ofchecks and balances and you know
(11:19):
there's people that you can kindof lean on how many units is the
is the building after youcompleted it yeah so end up
being three units so so kind ofthe total project was buy for
five thousand uh thought itwould cost 210 and it ended up
costing like$250.
So that's really cheap, like$80,000 basically total
(11:40):
investment per unit.
And then renting them out asnice one-bedroom apartments,
including to friends of oursthat lived there for years,
which was great.
Cool.
And this was what year again?
Remind me.
So yeah, really kind of startedout in 2013, bought it in 2014,
was legally occupiable, completein 2016.
(12:02):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (12:03):
So we're coming up, but yeah, so 10 years and I, so
I, Preliminarily on the verge ofhouse hunting where we've talked
about this, Patrick and I arehere doing this podcast to kind
of learn from professionals likeyou about the home buying
experience, about renovations,about important things that you
don't think about when you'regetting into real estate for the
very first time.
(12:24):
And just like context for likethat similar area in Cincinnati
now to purchase a property, whatwould you say is like the
average cost of a property ofthe similar vibe that you have
now in the Findlay Market area?
SPEAKER_01 (12:41):
Yeah, I mean, that exact building, we finished it
for$250,000 total investment.
We sold it a few years afterthat for like$350,000.
And it's probably worth like$400,000 now.
And that's a three unit.
And that's like that specificstreet, which probably still is
one of the worst streets in Overthe Rhine.
But, you know, two streets overon Findlay Market, You know,
(13:02):
that same building is probably600,000.
That same building at WashingtonPark is probably, you know, a
million dollars.
SPEAKER_00 (13:10):
Yeah.
Yeah, the other day, after thelast episode of the pod, we were
talking about like Mount Adamsand he lived in a Mount Adams
apartment that was like$700.
And I just went home that nightand looked at Zillow at what
like the average cost of a placeto buy is in Mount Adams right
now.
It's like over a million, right?
Over a million.
It's like 1.5.
It's places that are like$3million up there.
(13:30):
I'm like, what are we doing inthis mountain?
That's awesome.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
it's gotten wild.
I mean, that's true.
Yeah, and over the line too,there's houses for sale now for
$2 million, which is prettywild.
Like a single family house.
Yeah, poof.
SPEAKER_00 (13:41):
Crazy.
So talking about like financing,like are there like any tips or
insight for people that arelooking to maybe get into
exactly what you're doing andlike finding these kind of
properties and renovating them?
Were there any like Any special,like, any specialty loans that
you were able to get approvedfor?
Like, any tips or tricks or,like, maybe, like, resources
that people can use to, like,learn more about this stuff?
SPEAKER_01 (14:02):
Yeah, I would say anybody kind of getting started
in real estate or trying to buyproperty, you know, their first,
let's say, you know, I thinkhaving a salary is obviously a
big bonus.
That may be obvious, but itwasn't obvious to me, clearly.
And not just that you have, youknow, regular income coming in,
which is great, but a lender isgoing to loan to you because
you're going to get paid everytwo weeks or every month or
whatever, and, you know, thatgives them confidence that they
(14:23):
can give you a loan so that'slike kind of underappreciated
but like a bank really cares ofcourse like their number one
thing is that can you repay theloan and you have a salary you
have regular income you havesome savings you know that gives
them a lot of confidence and youhave to personally guarantee
these things in most cases whichis like if the building can't
pay the loan like you personallyhave to pay it
SPEAKER_03 (14:41):
okay
SPEAKER_01 (14:42):
um and so again if you have a salary if you have
savings like that's fine but ifyou don't then you know that
could ruin your life okay soyeah it sounds like it so yeah
so that's one one, and thenthere are...
I think throughout the country,but certainly in Cincinnati, a
lot of tax incentives.
All these cities, small towns,they want you to develop
properties.
They don't want them to bevacant.
(15:03):
So there's property tax breaksyou can get, which we've gotten
on all of our buildings.
There's these historic taxcredits at the state and federal
level, which will help yourepair and restore a historic
building, a program that's beenaround since the 70s and applies
throughout the entire country.
And then there's a thing calledOpportunity Zones, which have
been around since, I think,2019.
(15:25):
you know, to help you gaininvestors into the property
because they can get tax breaksas well.
So that's like another element.
You know, you have your ownpersonal wealth.
You have a loan you can get froma bank, which is like, you know,
quite possible for anybody, Iwould say.
And then you have like taxincentives, which can also help
the project.
So that's like the typical sortof, you know, you said like
(15:45):
capital stack.
Okay.
Even for like your firstproperty.
SPEAKER_00 (15:49):
Okay.
And would you recommend, I mean,like, how did you find those
resources at the time when youwere like looking...
when you were looking into it,did you have like trusted
professionals that you went toand said like, give me all this
information or was it mostlyjust self research online?
SPEAKER_01 (16:02):
Yeah, kind of both.
I mean, someone told me about,for example, the historic tax
credits and I reached out to aconsultant.
I was like, hey, where are thesetax credits?
How do they work?
And, you know, I think he wasbeing kind.
He just sent me like theapplication.
Like, this is what it lookslike.
And I was like, oh, I could justdo that.
Gotcha.
So then, you know, so then Ijust did the historic tax credit
application.
But yeah, again, I think withlike with any of this, like
(16:23):
there are just consultants,there's people out there that
want to help you.
Like every lender, like theirwhole business is giving out
loans.
And so they'll educate you.
They'll tell you how it works.
You know, what are interestrates?
What are the terms?
So a lot of these people arereally incentivized to help you
and help you potentially forfree, including like a general
contractor.
They want to win your business.
It's like, what is the cost tobuild?
So yeah, I think, you know,people want to be helpful.
(16:44):
And it's a pretty, I think likea fairly friendly industry
where, you know, people want tohelp each other out.
SPEAKER_00 (16:49):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (16:50):
I love his optimism,
SPEAKER_00 (16:51):
Patrick.
He says it's a friendlyindustry.
SPEAKER_01 (16:54):
At that level it is.
I think when you get into theNew York City commercial real
estate, that's the most brutalthing on earth.
SPEAKER_00 (17:00):
Would that be your vote?
That would be the worst?
You wouldn't touch it with a10-foot pole?
No way.
You
SPEAKER_01 (17:05):
have to be so ungodly wealthy and so
risk-taking.
It's just like on a different
SPEAKER_00 (17:12):
planet.
Last week we talked about, orone of the episodes, previous
episodes, we talked about theLeaning Tower of New York, which
you can go listen to.
I think we may have gotten thatarticle from you.
Yeah, yeah.
Would you invest in thatproperty?
SPEAKER_01 (17:26):
Well, that's, no.
And, you know, the thing is,like, kind of what I was talking
about earlier is, like,construction, like, there is,
it's just a linear process.
Right.
And it's kind of been the samefor a long time.
Like, all right, you do theplumbing and then, you know, do
the electric.
And so, like, you can figurethose projects out, in that
case, like the Leaning Tower,but that one is like a major
structural issue probably underthe ground is like there's not
(17:49):
many ways you
SPEAKER_00 (17:50):
can
SPEAKER_01 (17:50):
fix that
SPEAKER_00 (17:51):
yeah should we tell so our theory on that episode
this is good so this is where weactually get fact-checked where
we just come in here and justsay our nonsense for 30 minutes
every single week we were posedwith the question what do we do
with this building like whatwould we do yeah and there's
like the the consultant likeproducing was saying like well
what if you like paid to finishit and then you just had some
(18:14):
kind of a disclaimer to thepeople that are living there
saying this is the structural,situation here, they tested it
or whatever, or do you bulldozeand just start over again?
What do you predict a situationlike that would go through?
SPEAKER_01 (18:26):
Yeah, I think there's a few things.
One is, okay, it's not quitelevel and you're trying to sell
a, say,$10 million condo.
They don't want to live on anunlevel floor.
But I think to your point, allright, finish the building, give
people a discount, at least justget it done, try to break even
or lose a bit of money.
So I think that is an option.
But I think an issue there iseverything gets messed up.
(18:46):
The elevators are messed up.
The Oh God, I didn't even thinkabout that.
You know, it's like, weencourage our tenants to
SPEAKER_00 (18:54):
take the
SPEAKER_01 (18:54):
stairs.
It's like, it's like a Parisianwalk-up building, except it's 80
stories, you know?
So there's that.
So I think there are like realissues with it being not quite
level, but yeah, the other thingis like potentially you try to
fix that.
And I talked to a guy that Ithink was consulting on it and
was going to work on it.
(19:15):
And they're like, potentiallyyou try to like jack it up from
underground.
Like, literally.
Oh, wow.
Really?
Interesting.
Yeah, which we have done.
That happens a lot with historicbuildings.
But those are, like, you know, afour-story building.
This is, you know, this is,like, a totally different world.
So maybe there's, like, someengineering fix that you could
do.
But, yeah, I would assume if,like, if all the mechanical
systems work, the elevator work,and it's just, like, slightly
(19:37):
out of level and you just couldtell the condo owners, like,
that seems like the only way.
Because otherwise, yeah, youjust have to demolish it.
UNKNOWN (19:43):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (19:44):
Have you ever run into a situation?
I don't want to suck all theoxygen out of the room.
We keep asking questions.
No, I'm intrigued.
You're intrigued.
Has there ever been a projectthat got to that point where it
was like a project where it waslike...
I'm over in over my head.
This isn't going to end up theway that I think it's going to
end up.
And we just got to abandon ship.
Like did that ever has everhappened to you?
SPEAKER_01 (20:06):
Yeah, I think all the buildings we've worked on
are pretty serious, likerepairs, you know, structural
work, maybe even like to thefoundation, but certainly all
like the brick walls and thejoists and the floors, like
everything needs to be eitherfixed or totally replaced.
Okay.
And so, yeah, sometimes you kindof get into it and it's, you
know, it's more than you hadbargained for one building that
(20:27):
had a partial fire before webought it and you're like wow
this you know it's going to takea lot more work than we need so
but it kind of cuts both wayswhere it was built in the 1880s
by hand you know there was noauto cat there's no like
drafting software there was nomechanical tools there were no
like lifts you know all thethings we have now power tools
that make it a lot easier likethey didn't have that and they
(20:48):
could still figure it out theybuilt a brick wall they built
joyce they you know like it'slike certainly we can figure it
out now and so that's what i tryto do is like get back to the
basic elemental level you'relike oh you just have to take
the bricks down and then fix itand then build them back up.
It's like, oh yeah, you can dothat.
There's a price, but it's allsolvable.
But yeah, the main thing is youjust...
(21:08):
want to know that cost up frontbecause like the biggest risk is
you know and as the numbers growlike I said with the first
building thought it would be 210it was 250 so$40,000 is not like
the end of the world in thisworld but you know once you get
to like a$3 million building ifit goes over by 10% you're like
that's$300,000 so it's like youknow you need to be able to fill
(21:31):
that gap you need to you knowhopefully you know that up front
so yeah I think it's more justlike knowing the scopes of work
knowing how bad it is You know,being prepared for all of that
up front and just getting tolike a real cost.
Somebody that's going toactually like build it for that
cost.
SPEAKER_00 (21:46):
Got it.
SPEAKER_01 (21:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:47):
I appreciate your boldness.
I got to say, I mean, it'ssomething a lot of our
listeners, I'm sure ourlisteners are going to write
into the questions of theRentish pod if you also
appreciate John's boldness.
You got anything for me, Pat?
SPEAKER_01 (21:58):
Yeah, just like one quick question.
This is always something I'minterested in.
in is when you bought this firstbuilding were you still like
yourself were you still rentingor did you have your own place
that you like you lived in thatyou owned interestingly enough
uh i have never owned my primaryresidence so all the buildings
(22:18):
that you own are more likeinvestment properties or yeah
i've always rented i've beenrenting yeah my whole life i've
never owned a place we did livein one of the buildings we
renovated so you know itechnically owned 18 of that or
whatever but yeah never yeahi've never owned my house
Interesting.
Yeah.
It's like that's kind of likewhen we talked to Levi a few
weeks ago or whatever.
(22:39):
He still rents as well, but heobviously owns a whole
portfolio.
Yeah.
I think like in this business,like you have a different
perspective of like, most peopleare going to, I think should buy
a home because it's like, we'llmake their lives better.
Just happier.
You can, you can add the deck,you can do the thing, you can
add the bathroom, you can paintthe walls, you know, like that's
the reason mainly I think to buya house.
If you want it to be aninvestment, then like people
(22:59):
should be renting it, you know?
So maybe that's a duplex whereyou live in one or the other, or
you have, you know, like an 80,like a, you know, accessory unit
that you can rent out.
Then it's like, makes it more ofan investment, but.
Cause you get that passiveincome as, as opposed to.
Yeah.
Like somebody's paying you Causeotherwise like, okay, sure.
If you live there, like, yes,you're paying down the loan.
Like that can be a goodinvestment, but also like when
the roof leaks, like you gotta,you know, you gotta fix that in
(23:22):
the boiler and you know, there'slike a lot of maintenance and
cost of owning a house.
Yeah.
I think if you're looking toinvest in real estate, it's
better if it's not where youlive.
Gotcha.
That's definitely an interestingperspective.
Yeah.
Like truly as an investment.
SPEAKER_00 (23:34):
Yeah.
But yeah.
If you had to boil it down toone big piece of advice that you
would give to anyone looking forthat first time investment
property.
SPEAKER_01 (23:42):
Yes, I think.
Do you have one?
Just get started and do it withan amount that's not going to
kill you.
There's plenty of ways to buy.
You don't need to do the$250,000renovation.
You can buy something that needs$20,000, just a nice new
kitchen.
I think you can get started fora relatively small amount of
money and just figure it out.
(24:04):
Do the kitchen, do the bath.
What's it like to hire aplumber?
What's it like to hire a smallcontractor?
What's it like to have a loanand get the money from the bank?
So yeah, you start in that andthen if that's interesting and
works and then maybe you have atenant and okay managing a
tenant right is like can i dothat do i hate it right oh they
call me at you know 10 p.m igotta fix this thing like some
(24:25):
people love that and some peoplethat's like you know the worst
thing on earth so patrickimagine you get
SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
a
SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
tenant and then they're
SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
calling you at like 7 a.m
SPEAKER_01 (24:32):
yeah 10 p.m i can do that any day 7 a.m forget about
SPEAKER_00 (24:36):
it yeah terminated
SPEAKER_01 (24:39):
you are evicted but you know that is the tricky
thing with renting you know withmanaging a rental property.
It's like not everything is thaturgent, but some things really
are.
I mean, that first building, forwhatever reason, the furnace
kept going out.
And it was like two of our verygood friends living in this
apartment.
And so in the winter, thefurnace would just give out and
(25:00):
it had to be just like reset.
But that could be at 10 p.m.
It could be at 6 a.m.
And like you can't let that go.
SPEAKER_02 (25:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
Like you can't let that go for two hours.
Like they'll be freezing, youknow.
Yeah.
So yeah, that's part of it too.
It's like, okay, do you likemanaging, managing apartments?
And then you figure out systemsthere.
Like maybe you hire a propertymanager, maybe you hire a
maintenance person, whatever.
SPEAKER_03 (25:20):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (25:21):
But yeah, once you figure it out with one, like,
SPEAKER_00 (25:23):
you know, then you can kind of keep going from
there if you want.
That seems to be very similar towhat Levi said when we, when we
asked the same question.
So it seems like that's what we,you know, you got to give it a
shot and you figure it out alongthe way.
You know, you just learn a lotby the act of doing right.
Yeah, I think so.
So
SPEAKER_01 (25:37):
yeah.
Even a single family house, likerent, rent where you live and
then buy a single family houseand rent that out.
I mean, that's, you know, Imean, there's lots of different
ways to try to do it, but
SPEAKER_00 (25:45):
cool.
Is there anything you would havedone differently on that very
first property?
You turn back time and you jumpthrough the, the Avengers time
portal and you're like, allright, I'm going to change this
one thing about what I did onthis investment.
What was, is there anything, ordo you feel like you pretty much
aced it?
SPEAKER_01 (25:58):
Yeah.
I mean, we got lucky with thetiming and the cost, you know,
that's like, that's certainlyone way to, you know, make your
own luck is like, we just boughtit for so cheap and at a good
time and a good location.
Like we made a good amount ofmoney on it, but mostly because
of that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:11):
So
SPEAKER_01 (26:12):
yeah, I think one thing is just a better budget.
I think that's always the game.
especially because the thingthat people are going to pay for
living in an apartment is likethe finishes.
Like that's kind of all theycare about, but that's like the
last thing you're doing.
So if you're running out ofmoney or you're like running out
of patients, you could likecheap out in the finishes and
(26:32):
that'll just kill you.
You know, we did that.
And I think the one thing Iregret like physically at the
building is on the first floorunit.
Like by the time we were done, Iwas like, we just don't have any
more money.
And so we just put in like HomeDepot cabinets and stuff, you
know?
So on like a$250,000 renovation,we might've saved, you know,
$1,500 on that final part, whichlike clearly does not make
sense.
So yeah, so like a good budgetso that you can spend the money
(26:54):
at the end when you...
I've never thought about that.
Like the finishes is kind of...
It's like the first thing thatcatches people's eyes in an
apartment.
Yeah, it's like all you careabout is a nice shower, a nice
kitchen, nice countertops.
Like that's really almost allthat someone cares about renting
it.
And that could change the rentfrom$1,200 to$1,500, which is a
big deal.
But yeah, as the person likedeveloping it, you're like, oh
God, more money.
(27:17):
But that's...
like when you don't want tocheap out.
So.
SPEAKER_03 (27:20):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (27:21):
Yeah.
Okay.
Patrick, do you have any morequestions before I jump to a
couple of like funsies?
No, I'm, I'm good.
Okay.
So I got to ask dream Cincyproperty to buy.
So like, Money's no object.
Is there a historic building inCincinnati or a place or a
neighborhood maybe where you seea lot of places where you're
just like, I would love to getinto this investment, just
(27:41):
haven't done it yet?
SPEAKER_01 (27:42):
Yeah, no, it's really good.
Yeah, a few probably favoritebuildings.
The Gwynn Building, which isdowntown.
It's being developed now.
I think it's like the family ofWalmart money.
Okay.
Yeah, it's currently beingrenovated.
They're doing a high-end hotel,but that's probably my favorite
building in Cincinnati.
What's it called again?
The
SPEAKER_00 (28:00):
Gwynn Building.
G-W-Y-N-N-E building.
SPEAKER_01 (28:03):
Yeah, it's incredible.
SPEAKER_00 (28:04):
125,000 square foot, 13 story Gwynn building
completed in 1913, designed byErnest Flagg, cool name, who
designed the Singer Building inNew York and the Corcoran
Gallery of Art in Washington,D.C.
SPEAKER_01 (28:18):
That's a cool building.
It's sick.
It has these massive cast ironwindows.
I think I talked to somebodythat was working on that
renovation.
I think each window is likeseven grand or something.
Holy cow.
Yeah.
Now it's going to be a hotel.
It was offices, like lowoccupancy.
and see offices, but they'rerenovating it, I think, man, to
a boutique hotel.
SPEAKER_00 (28:34):
Huh.
From 1935 until 1956, the officebuilding housed the headquarters
of Procter& Gamble.
Some Cincinnati trivia for youthere.
The P&G's like the Cincinnaticompany.
Oh, yeah.
It's like every building.
It's like
SPEAKER_01 (28:44):
for some period of time, P&G was there.
For a period of time.
Okay.
Yeah, so that's definitely oneof my favorites.
You know, I think as far asareas, you know, over the line,
there's still a little bit leftto do, but there's some crazy
stats there of like in the year2000 or maybe late 90s, there
was like 3,000 vacant buildings.
And I think now there's like 50.
So like over the line.
50?
Yeah.
(29:05):
Like 5-0.
In over the line.
So like, you know, most of themhave now been redeveloped.
Okay.
So there's not much opportunityleft there.
But, you know, I think NorthernKentucky, I think as you go into
the hillside, Yeah, I think I'm,like, most bullish on the area
between over the Rhine and,like, where the University of
Cincinnati is.
SPEAKER_00 (29:22):
Okay.
Like, all the stuff that's,like, on the hill going up into
Cleveland.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (29:26):
like, Mount Auburn is really, you know, kind of
underdeveloped.
I mean, just that whole area,and you're so close to downtown.
And there's a lot of energy now,like, coming to the West End
with, you know, FC Cincinnati,and they're going to invest, you
know, a billion dollars intoreal estate there.
Yeah, yeah.
There'll be excitement there,but it's also slow.
Okay.
I think that's, like...
the
SPEAKER_00 (29:43):
other
SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
part
SPEAKER_00 (29:43):
of this whole business.
I'm going to throw this one outthere.
Just curious.
One of my favorite cool lookingbuildings in Cincinnati that I
always, you know, when peopletalk about like buying historic
properties and like renovatingthem is the Imperial Theater.
SPEAKER_02 (29:56):
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (29:57):
yeah.
I would love nothing more thanto see that like restored and
like become like a beautiful arthouse cinema.
It'd be awesome.
The Mohawk one?
I think so.
I don't know the exact street,but yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:10):
It's a great building.
SPEAKER_00 (30:11):
I pass it every day when I drive home.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (30:13):
they're trying.
They're working on it.
But yeah, it all just takes solong.
SPEAKER_00 (30:16):
Takes so long.
A lot of money.
Okay.
Well, my last question that I'vegot here before we kind of wrap
up.
Patrick and I are big moviefans.
We routinely talk about movieshere on this podcast.
In fact, we do segments where wetalk about famous buildings from
movies or whatever.
So my question for you issimple, and I think we should
probably start asking all of ourguests.
What's your favorite movie andwhy?
SPEAKER_03 (30:37):
Ooh.
SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
It doesn't have to be like...
you know, one favorite, theyhave Letterboxd asks the four
favorites or whatever.
If you have one that you'relike, this just jumps to mind.
SPEAKER_01 (30:46):
I really like Minority Report.
Okay.
Huh.
I think that's, yeah, I don'teven really love Tom Cruise.
I think he's, you know, he'sgood, obviously.
That Tom Cruise guy is okay.
He's pretty good.
I think he's gonna have a goodcareer.
Yeah.
But no, I like Minority Report.
I like the original Gladiator alot.
Like, that still sticks with mefrom when I originally saw it
in, like, whatever that was,90-something.
(31:08):
Um...
Yeah, I'm trying to think ofmovies I've seen.
I've never heard anyone sayMinority Report is their
favorite.
I respect that.
It's up there.
And it's funny because when Ithink of favorite movie, I think
I'm still just like, I rememberthe movies I saw pretty young.
Yeah, right.
Those stick in my brain.
I think certainly I've seen abetter movie in the last five
years.
But that's where my mind goesto.
(31:28):
Stuff I saw when I was 15 orwhatever.
SPEAKER_00 (31:31):
Yeah.
No, that's awesome.
Unique pick.
Yeah.
And I appreciate the Gladiatorpick.
UNKNOWN (31:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:36):
Man, when Gladiator 2 was coming out in theaters, I
just rewatched the first one andI was just like, that's one of
those movies that's justawesome.
It's awesome.
Just struck by the power offilm.
The opening scene is just like
SPEAKER_01 (31:47):
insane.
So, so good.
Energy from front to back.
SPEAKER_00 (31:50):
Yeah.
All right.
Well, John, it's been a pleasureto talk.
Holy cow.
Yeah, that was great until thelast moment.
SPEAKER_01 (31:56):
Yeah, you ruined the whole
SPEAKER_00 (31:57):
episode.
That's what we do the wholething now.
Restart it.
What's going on, everybody?
Welcome to it.
No, it's been a pleasurechatting with you.
Thank you for coming and hangingwith Patrick and I and letting
us bring a little K into yourcalm, you know, very
professional demeanor.
And I think it went really well.
And it was very insightfullearning about renovating old
buildings and like getting intoreal estate investing with
(32:18):
historic buildings.
So we wish you luck.
We can't wait to have you backon the podcast sometime soon.
In the meantime, though, wherecan listeners follow you and
learn more about all yourprojects and stuff?
SPEAKER_01 (32:28):
Yeah, my company is Kunst.
You know, we do historicrenovations and then mostly I
would say social media, Twitter,X and LinkedIn.
It's John J.
Blatchford.
So that's where I'm at.
Okay, awesome.
Yeah, there's a website,kunz.us, but there's not much.
I mean, it just shows ourprojects.
So I'm really more active like Xand LinkedIn.
(32:49):
Can you spell that just forthe...
oh yeah so our website iskunst.us
SPEAKER_00 (32:55):
kunst.us cool awesome okay awesome and that's
another episode of the rentishin the books remember to follow
us on social media at therentish pod on instagram you can
also just like us subscribe andhit the ring a ding bell for all
those notifications for all thefuture episodes i was trying to
break me say uh and uh yeah giveus a rating or a review and
(33:16):
email questions attherentishpod.com if you have
any feedback or any kind oftopic suggestions that you want
to float our way.
We'd love to talk about it withyou.
I've been Zach.
That's been Patrick.
And we'll see you guys nexttime.
And that's been John.
And that's been John.
And we'll see you guys next
SPEAKER_02 (33:30):
week.
What's going on, everyone?
I'm Zach, and I'm here with myco-host, Patrick.
What up?
And we are your hosts for TheRentish Podcast, a podcast
that's kind of about rentalproperties and hosted by two
guys that work in the realestate industry and sort of know
what they're talking about.
But mostly don't.
That's right, Patrick.
(00:21):
Mostly we don't, which is whyyou're going to have fun
listening to us talk to experts.
Hints, hints.
Emphasis on the expert there.
And learning with us or laughingalong at how little we know.
Patrick, how's your day going,buddy?
It's good.
SPEAKER_01 (00:35):
I'm two cups of coffee in today.
SPEAKER_00 (00:36):
Oh, really?
Is that a normal?
No, no.
Two cups, a little extra?
You needed that boost?
I needed the boost.
I needed to be on my bestbehavior with the expert in
town.
I, you know, wanted to make sureenergy levels were high.
Yeah, I got a haircut just forthe occasion.
I was like, I can't be in a roomwith such a professional without
having like a barber dosomething for me.
So, yeah.
Rent-ish.
(00:57):
Before we dive into it, becausewe're joined by a very special
guest, very excited to introducehim to the show.
Remember, follow The Rentish onsocial media.
We're at The Rentish Pod onInstagram.
You can check us out there.
Please follow us.
Check us out there.
You can go to any podcastservice that you use, Spotify,
Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music,and search for The Rentish Pod,
(01:18):
and you're going to find ourshow there.
Hit follow, subscribe, maybegive us a rating or two or three
or comment.
Anything to make producing mesay happy.
He's smiling.
He's smiling very big.
What?
Are we on YouTube?
That's a question for ProducerMoussey.
He's shaking his head no.
So we are not on YouTube.
Okay.
But maybe email questions attherentishpod.com if you would
(01:38):
like us to go to YouTube.
We need to start filming thesemaybe.
Or, well, we could just put upthe sound, I think.
I'm okay with not filming.
SPEAKER_01 (01:46):
You
SPEAKER_00 (01:46):
don't want to be on camera?
I don't
SPEAKER_01 (01:47):
need people to be seeing me when I'm zoning off
into space during our
SPEAKER_00 (01:51):
podcast episodes.
When I'm reading all of theimportant articles and you're
just sitting there like stonecold, staring at the window.
All right, well, that's enoughjibber jabber.
We're joined by a special guest,so we've got to actually get
into it because we're going tohave a lot to talk about today.
In this segment, we're going totalk about real estate
professionals.
That's right, my first property.
(02:39):
But before he built hisimpressive portfolio, he had to
start somewhere.
Today, we're diving into John'svery first property investment,
what he learned, the challengeshe faced, and how that first
purchase shaped his real estatecareer.
John, welcome to the show.
What's up?
Oh, you got a round of applause.
We could add that
SPEAKER_01 (02:57):
in
SPEAKER_00 (02:58):
post.
Thank you.
It's good to have you, man.
Hey,
SPEAKER_01 (02:59):
good to be here.
Thanks for having
SPEAKER_00 (03:01):
me, guys.
Yeah, yeah.
It's going to be a lot of fun.
We're going to get a lot of yourinsight.
I think that certain colleaguesof ours have talked up your tome
of knowledge.
knowledge in terms of the worldof real estate.
SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
Tome.
Good word.
Thank
SPEAKER_00 (03:13):
you.
I think we're excited to divedeep into your journey, your
history, your story.
Was there anything I missed inyour intro blurb that you want
to share with the world aboutyou and who you are?
No, that's basically it.
That's who you are.
We captured you in a paragraph.
I got nothing else.
(03:34):
All right, everyone.
That's the end of the show.
John, you have a unique approachto real estate.
I think that's the least thatcould be said about it.
Focusing on historic buildingsand utilizing tax incentives.
Was that always your plan or didyour first property purchase
kind of shape that directionthat what your career went?
SPEAKER_01 (03:51):
Yeah.
So the first building weultimately bought in 2014 and
probably started working on in2013.
And I was working in downtownCincinnati for a technology
company, actually softwarecompany.
And it was manufacturingsoftware.
So we had installations anddeployments like all around the
which was really awesome.
Went to Chile and Mexico andtrained in Germany and all this
(04:14):
cool stuff.
But yeah, I always likedbuildings.
I liked real estate withoutreally knowing what that meant.
Historic preservation, interiordesign, all the kind of aspects
of real estate that areinteresting.
Yeah, I was kind of interestedin, I would say, my whole life.
And then a very cheap propertybecame available in Over the
Rhine, where we are right now.
So yeah, it was$5,000 in 2014.
(04:36):
What?
Wait, wait, what?
5,000?
5-0-0?
Yeah, so that's, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (04:42):
This is why we need to record for YouTube, because
when he said that, I saw both ofyour eyes expand to about this
big.
Wait, what was the
SPEAKER_01 (04:49):
property?
So it's 1667 Hamer Street.
It's in Over the Rhine nearFindlay Market.
It was a rough area then, andnow it's been 10 years, and it's
still a pretty rough area,although it's changing now.
So yeah, it was really cheap,and it was in really bad shape.
You know, just water comingthrough the ceiling and needed a
lot of masonry repair, and so itneeded a lot.
you know, it was 5,000 to buyand ended up being, you know,
(05:11):
$250,000 to renovate it.
So that's, that's always thecatch.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (05:15):
Where did the bolt, where did the boldness come from
of thinking that you werestanding on that precipice and
like, I can accomplish thisproject?
SPEAKER_01 (05:22):
Yeah.
More, uh, I'd say willfulstupidity or lack of knowledge.
You know, I had a salary at thetime, had a little money saved,
but even, even just do thisfirst project, need to raise
some money.
Um, because we needed like$60,000 of cash, you know, to do
the project.
Uh, and we got a loan you knowfrom a bank for the rest of it
but yeah really just kind ofrolling into it and I would say
(05:43):
like at the beginning it was alot more missionary you know
I've thought a lot about likemissionary versus mercenary and
I think smart people go in theother direction they start very
mercenary make a ton of moneyyou know do whatever I have to
do get the big job do that pathand then you know later you can
kind of move towards somethingyou are more interested in and I
did the missionary first likethis is just a cool old building
(06:04):
I want to renovate it I thinkpeople should live here and put
some random numbers in Excel andmaybe at work, I guess.
SPEAKER_00 (06:11):
Wow.
The way that he
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
speaks so
SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
eloquently about it, it's like, man, it's really that
easy.
Yeah.
Isn't that easy?
Put some random
SPEAKER_01 (06:17):
numbers in Excel and make it work out.
Definitely not easy to start,you know, and then, you know,
you learn the lessons over timeof like, okay, I probably could
have done that a smarter way,but.
Did you know anything about likethe renovation aspects of it
before you purchased theproperty?
Did you just like purchase itand like, all right, we'll
figure out the rest later?
Yeah, I didn't know anything.
I, friends of mine were generalcontractors and so the original
(06:38):
idea was is we would be partnerson the project.
And so they would like discounttheir services, kind of help me
through it.
And then they would get someownership, which, you know,
which they did.
So that was the original idea.
And then really like a year intoit, I had the grand idea that I
didn't need to have a job likethis would be my job.
I'll start my company.
So in 2015, did that basicallyquit my job, went full time into
(06:59):
this and became, you know,became a general contractor,
then kind of just figured outthe construction as we went.
SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
Okay.
How did you decide that it was?
I mean, it sounds like it kindof just fell in You were
motivated.
You saw the property.
You saw the area.
You thought you had a vision forit, but what motivated you to do
it at that specific time?
When did you decide that it wasthe right time to get into it?
SPEAKER_01 (07:22):
Yeah, it was...
Getting more and more interestedin the area, I would say, you
know, with Ryan.
I moved down in 2012.
So, you know, lived pretty closeto the building, was working
downtown.
So just kind of in the area.
And I'm still sort of motivatedin that way, which is like if
you're on a street corner and itjust has good energy and there's
a market over there and like acoffee shop just opened up and
then there's a vacant building,you're just kind of like, well,
(07:42):
this should be someone shouldlive here.
Like certainly somebody wouldpay to live here, you know, it
shouldn't be vacant or itshouldn't be like underutilized.
So, you know, I think you kindof have a sense for like areas
that should be developed and itclearly really was like the
right time and right place.
I mean, to have started in Overthe Rhine in 2012 and 13, just
like the rise it's had in thelast 10 years.
So yeah, it was just really theright time and place, and
(08:02):
obviously the price was right.
You know, I could not haveraised$500,000, but I could
raise$60,000, you know, and thebuilding was available, and near
where I lived, you know, justkind of a confluence of factors.
You know, and then the leap toreally jump full time and quit
my job, that was just like, Ithink I've always wanted to be
an entrepreneur and own my owncompany, and that was, you know,
(08:22):
kind of pursuing that as like a26 year old and I wouldn't
necessarily recommend that likefor my son or anyone else in the
world it's like you know maybemaybe do it on the side for a
little longer maybe save up alittle more money maybe learn
some lessons and then you knowjump but you know that's that's
what I
SPEAKER_00 (08:38):
did it's a success story I mean you made the risk
and it seemed to have paid offfor you so
SPEAKER_01 (08:43):
yeah no it always it just takes time especially in
real estate where it's a lot ofmoney you know that project took
two years to really develop andit was a small building and the
fastest project will take two tothree years so It takes a long
time to kind of learn thelessons.
But yeah, the hope is after, youknow, a lifetime certainly, but
hopefully shorter than that.
You've learned a lot and builtlike a nice business.
SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
Yeah.
Were there any other unexpectedchallenges in that first, like
besides the, you know, wementioned like the, the
construction that you had to doand getting like all of that
taken care of.
But were there any otherchallenges where you weren't
anticipating like, oh crap, nowI have to deal with this?
SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
Yeah, I think I was not prepared for a lot of the
structural repair needed.
You know, we got close to theend and a building inspector
came and was like, yeah, thatbrick wall is jacked.
You gotta like fix that.
So within the last, like, Idon't know, two months of the
building was like an additional$7,000.
She's like, okay, hopefully.
And yeah, I think in general,that's sort of, it's like pretty
(09:39):
by Like if you have the money tofinish the building, people can
live there and pay rent and itworks out.
But if you don't, if you'reshort by$500, like you can't
finish it and people can't livethere, you know?
So like the budgeting andscoping of like the work you
need to do, you know, that'sbeen a major lesson.
But yeah, the masonry was a bigone.
You know, we had to evict a lotof animals, a lot of raccoons,
you know, sorry
SPEAKER_00 (10:01):
to them.
You put in a 30 day notice onthe raccoon store.
SPEAKER_01 (10:06):
I don't want to be the gentrifier, but if the
pigeons aren't paying rent, youYou gotta kick them out.
SPEAKER_00 (10:11):
Patrick,
SPEAKER_01 (10:12):
you got anything?
So as far as like, how did youfirst tackle like renovated in
that sort of way?
Like how did you first find thecontractors and the people who
needed to get the job done andknow all of the different steps
involved?
Yeah.
So, you know, my generalcontractor friends, they were
really helpful.
And I would say one good thingin real estate is like, there
are like everyone you're hiringtheoretically is like a skilled
(10:35):
person that knows what to do.
And so you're like, you need toknow who to contact.
You need to know like what thenext steps are.
like you know does insulationhappen before drywall you know
like there are realconsiderations of like what are
the steps yeah but then once youknow you need like an
electrician it's like there areyou know 20 of those and they
know what to do and theirlicense and you know so yeah my
general contractor friends weregood of like who to contact what
are the next steps and thenfortunately you kind of lean on
(10:57):
all the all the contractors todo their work and then it all
gets inspected you know like bythe city and stuff and so
they're going to come along andtell you like yeah you need to
you need to have an automaticdoor closer on your doors so a
fire doesn't spread and you'relike i didn't know that was a
thing yeah right but you knowlike they're that's what the
building department does are theinspectors um so it's good in
that way like there's a lot ofchecks and balances and you know
(11:19):
there's people that you can kindof lean on how many units is the
is the building after youcompleted it yeah so end up
being three units so so kind ofthe total project was buy for
five thousand uh thought itwould cost 210 and it ended up
costing like$250.
So that's really cheap, like$80,000 basically total
(11:40):
investment per unit.
And then renting them out asnice one-bedroom apartments,
including to friends of oursthat lived there for years,
which was great.
Cool.
And this was what year again?
Remind me.
So yeah, really kind of startedout in 2013, bought it in 2014,
was legally occupiable, completein 2016.
(12:02):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (12:03):
So we're coming up, but yeah, so 10 years and I, so
I, Preliminarily on the verge ofhouse hunting where we've talked
about this, Patrick and I arehere doing this podcast to kind
of learn from professionals likeyou about the home buying
experience, about renovations,about important things that you
don't think about when you'regetting into real estate for the
very first time.
(12:24):
And just like context for likethat similar area in Cincinnati
now to purchase a property, whatwould you say is like the
average cost of a property ofthe similar vibe that you have
now in the Findlay Market area?
SPEAKER_01 (12:41):
Yeah, I mean, that exact building, we finished it
for$250,000 total investment.
We sold it a few years afterthat for like$350,000.
And it's probably worth like$400,000 now.
And that's a three unit.
And that's like that specificstreet, which probably still is
one of the worst streets in Overthe Rhine.
But, you know, two streets overon Findlay Market, You know,
(13:02):
that same building is probably600,000.
That same building at WashingtonPark is probably, you know, a
million dollars.
SPEAKER_00 (13:10):
Yeah.
Yeah, the other day, after thelast episode of the pod, we were
talking about like Mount Adamsand he lived in a Mount Adams
apartment that was like$700.
And I just went home that nightand looked at Zillow at what
like the average cost of a placeto buy is in Mount Adams right
now.
It's like over a million, right?
Over a million.
It's like 1.5.
It's places that are like$3million up there.
(13:30):
I'm like, what are we doing inthis mountain?
That's awesome.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
it's gotten wild.
I mean, that's true.
Yeah, and over the line too,there's houses for sale now for
$2 million, which is prettywild.
Like a single family house.
Yeah, poof.
SPEAKER_00 (13:41):
Crazy.
So talking about like financing,like are there like any tips or
insight for people that arelooking to maybe get into
exactly what you're doing andlike finding these kind of
properties and renovating them?
Were there any like Any special,like, any specialty loans that
you were able to get approvedfor?
Like, any tips or tricks or,like, maybe, like, resources
that people can use to, like,learn more about this stuff?
SPEAKER_01 (14:02):
Yeah, I would say anybody kind of getting started
in real estate or trying to buyproperty, you know, their first,
let's say, you know, I thinkhaving a salary is obviously a
big bonus.
That may be obvious, but itwasn't obvious to me, clearly.
And not just that you have, youknow, regular income coming in,
which is great, but a lender isgoing to loan to you because
you're going to get paid everytwo weeks or every month or
whatever, and, you know, thatgives them confidence that they
(14:23):
can give you a loan so that'slike kind of underappreciated
but like a bank really cares ofcourse like their number one
thing is that can you repay theloan and you have a salary you
have regular income you havesome savings you know that gives
them a lot of confidence and youhave to personally guarantee
these things in most cases whichis like if the building can't
pay the loan like you personallyhave to pay it
SPEAKER_03 (14:41):
okay
SPEAKER_01 (14:42):
um and so again if you have a salary if you have
savings like that's fine but ifyou don't then you know that
could ruin your life okay soyeah it sounds like it so yeah
so that's one one, and thenthere are...
I think throughout the country,but certainly in Cincinnati, a
lot of tax incentives.
All these cities, small towns,they want you to develop
properties.
They don't want them to bevacant.
(15:03):
So there's property tax breaksyou can get, which we've gotten
on all of our buildings.
There's these historic taxcredits at the state and federal
level, which will help yourepair and restore a historic
building, a program that's beenaround since the 70s and applies
throughout the entire country.
And then there's a thing calledOpportunity Zones, which have
been around since, I think,2019.
(15:25):
you know, to help you gaininvestors into the property
because they can get tax breaksas well.
So that's like another element.
You know, you have your ownpersonal wealth.
You have a loan you can get froma bank, which is like, you know,
quite possible for anybody, Iwould say.
And then you have like taxincentives, which can also help
the project.
So that's like the typical sortof, you know, you said like
(15:45):
capital stack.
Okay.
Even for like your firstproperty.
SPEAKER_00 (15:49):
Okay.
And would you recommend, I mean,like, how did you find those
resources at the time when youwere like looking...
when you were looking into it,did you have like trusted
professionals that you went toand said like, give me all this
information or was it mostlyjust self research online?
SPEAKER_01 (16:02):
Yeah, kind of both.
I mean, someone told me about,for example, the historic tax
credits and I reached out to aconsultant.
I was like, hey, where are thesetax credits?
How do they work?
And, you know, I think he wasbeing kind.
He just sent me like theapplication.
Like, this is what it lookslike.
And I was like, oh, I could justdo that.
Gotcha.
So then, you know, so then Ijust did the historic tax credit
application.
But yeah, again, I think withlike with any of this, like
(16:23):
there are just consultants,there's people out there that
want to help you.
Like every lender, like theirwhole business is giving out
loans.
And so they'll educate you.
They'll tell you how it works.
You know, what are interestrates?
What are the terms?
So a lot of these people arereally incentivized to help you
and help you potentially forfree, including like a general
contractor.
They want to win your business.
It's like, what is the cost tobuild?
So yeah, I think, you know,people want to be helpful.
(16:44):
And it's a pretty, I think likea fairly friendly industry
where, you know, people want tohelp each other out.
SPEAKER_00 (16:49):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (16:50):
I love his optimism,
SPEAKER_00 (16:51):
Patrick.
He says it's a friendlyindustry.
SPEAKER_01 (16:54):
At that level it is.
I think when you get into theNew York City commercial real
estate, that's the most brutalthing on earth.
SPEAKER_00 (17:00):
Would that be your vote?
That would be the worst?
You wouldn't touch it with a10-foot pole?
No way.
You
SPEAKER_01 (17:05):
have to be so ungodly wealthy and so
risk-taking.
It's just like on a different
SPEAKER_00 (17:12):
planet.
Last week we talked about, orone of the episodes, previous
episodes, we talked about theLeaning Tower of New York, which
you can go listen to.
I think we may have gotten thatarticle from you.
Yeah, yeah.
Would you invest in thatproperty?
SPEAKER_01 (17:26):
Well, that's, no.
And, you know, the thing is,like, kind of what I was talking
about earlier is, like,construction, like, there is,
it's just a linear process.
Right.
And it's kind of been the samefor a long time.
Like, all right, you do theplumbing and then, you know, do
the electric.
And so, like, you can figurethose projects out, in that
case, like the Leaning Tower,but that one is like a major
structural issue probably underthe ground is like there's not
(17:49):
many ways you
SPEAKER_00 (17:50):
can
SPEAKER_01 (17:50):
fix that
SPEAKER_00 (17:51):
yeah should we tell so our theory on that episode
this is good so this is where weactually get fact-checked where
we just come in here and justsay our nonsense for 30 minutes
every single week we were posedwith the question what do we do
with this building like whatwould we do yeah and there's
like the the consultant likeproducing was saying like well
what if you like paid to finishit and then you just had some
(18:14):
kind of a disclaimer to thepeople that are living there
saying this is the structural,situation here, they tested it
or whatever, or do you bulldozeand just start over again?
What do you predict a situationlike that would go through?
SPEAKER_01 (18:26):
Yeah, I think there's a few things.
One is, okay, it's not quitelevel and you're trying to sell
a, say,$10 million condo.
They don't want to live on anunlevel floor.
But I think to your point, allright, finish the building, give
people a discount, at least justget it done, try to break even
or lose a bit of money.
So I think that is an option.
But I think an issue there iseverything gets messed up.
(18:46):
The elevators are messed up.
The Oh God, I didn't even thinkabout that.
You know, it's like, weencourage our tenants to
SPEAKER_00 (18:54):
take the
SPEAKER_01 (18:54):
stairs.
It's like, it's like a Parisianwalk-up building, except it's 80
stories, you know?
So there's that.
So I think there are like realissues with it being not quite
level, but yeah, the other thingis like potentially you try to
fix that.
And I talked to a guy that Ithink was consulting on it and
was going to work on it.
(19:15):
And they're like, potentiallyyou try to like jack it up from
underground.
Like, literally.
Oh, wow.
Really?
Interesting.
Yeah, which we have done.
That happens a lot with historicbuildings.
But those are, like, you know, afour-story building.
This is, you know, this is,like, a totally different world.
So maybe there's, like, someengineering fix that you could
do.
But, yeah, I would assume if,like, if all the mechanical
systems work, the elevator work,and it's just, like, slightly
(19:37):
out of level and you just couldtell the condo owners, like,
that seems like the only way.
Because otherwise, yeah, youjust have to demolish it.
UNKNOWN (19:43):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (19:44):
Have you ever run into a situation?
I don't want to suck all theoxygen out of the room.
We keep asking questions.
No, I'm intrigued.
You're intrigued.
Has there ever been a projectthat got to that point where it
was like a project where it waslike...
I'm over in over my head.
This isn't going to end up theway that I think it's going to
end up.
And we just got to abandon ship.
Like did that ever has everhappened to you?
SPEAKER_01 (20:06):
Yeah, I think all the buildings we've worked on
are pretty serious, likerepairs, you know, structural
work, maybe even like to thefoundation, but certainly all
like the brick walls and thejoists and the floors, like
everything needs to be eitherfixed or totally replaced.
Okay.
And so, yeah, sometimes you kindof get into it and it's, you
know, it's more than you hadbargained for one building that
(20:27):
had a partial fire before webought it and you're like wow
this you know it's going to takea lot more work than we need so
but it kind of cuts both wayswhere it was built in the 1880s
by hand you know there was noauto cat there's no like
drafting software there was nomechanical tools there were no
like lifts you know all thethings we have now power tools
that make it a lot easier likethey didn't have that and they
(20:48):
could still figure it out theybuilt a brick wall they built
joyce they you know like it'slike certainly we can figure it
out now and so that's what i tryto do is like get back to the
basic elemental level you'relike oh you just have to take
the bricks down and then fix itand then build them back up.
It's like, oh yeah, you can dothat.
There's a price, but it's allsolvable.
But yeah, the main thing is youjust...
(21:08):
want to know that cost up frontbecause like the biggest risk is
you know and as the numbers growlike I said with the first
building thought it would be 210it was 250 so$40,000 is not like
the end of the world in thisworld but you know once you get
to like a$3 million building ifit goes over by 10% you're like
that's$300,000 so it's like youknow you need to be able to fill
(21:31):
that gap you need to you knowhopefully you know that up front
so yeah I think it's more justlike knowing the scopes of work
knowing how bad it is You know,being prepared for all of that
up front and just getting tolike a real cost.
Somebody that's going toactually like build it for that
cost.
SPEAKER_00 (21:46):
Got it.
SPEAKER_01 (21:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:47):
I appreciate your boldness.
I got to say, I mean, it'ssomething a lot of our
listeners, I'm sure ourlisteners are going to write
into the questions of theRentish pod if you also
appreciate John's boldness.
You got anything for me, Pat?
SPEAKER_01 (21:58):
Yeah, just like one quick question.
This is always something I'minterested in.
in is when you bought this firstbuilding were you still like
yourself were you still rentingor did you have your own place
that you like you lived in thatyou owned interestingly enough
uh i have never owned my primaryresidence so all the buildings
(22:18):
that you own are more likeinvestment properties or yeah
i've always rented i've beenrenting yeah my whole life i've
never owned a place we did livein one of the buildings we
renovated so you know itechnically owned 18 of that or
whatever but yeah never yeahi've never owned my house
Interesting.
Yeah.
It's like that's kind of likewhen we talked to Levi a few
weeks ago or whatever.
(22:39):
He still rents as well, but heobviously owns a whole
portfolio.
Yeah.
I think like in this business,like you have a different
perspective of like, most peopleare going to, I think should buy
a home because it's like, we'llmake their lives better.
Just happier.
You can, you can add the deck,you can do the thing, you can
add the bathroom, you can paintthe walls, you know, like that's
the reason mainly I think to buya house.
If you want it to be aninvestment, then like people
(22:59):
should be renting it, you know?
So maybe that's a duplex whereyou live in one or the other, or
you have, you know, like an 80,like a, you know, accessory unit
that you can rent out.
Then it's like, makes it more ofan investment, but.
Cause you get that passiveincome as, as opposed to.
Yeah.
Like somebody's paying you Causeotherwise like, okay, sure.
If you live there, like, yes,you're paying down the loan.
Like that can be a goodinvestment, but also like when
the roof leaks, like you gotta,you know, you gotta fix that in
(23:22):
the boiler and you know, there'slike a lot of maintenance and
cost of owning a house.
Yeah.
I think if you're looking toinvest in real estate, it's
better if it's not where youlive.
Gotcha.
That's definitely an interestingperspective.
Yeah.
Like truly as an investment.
SPEAKER_00 (23:34):
Yeah.
But yeah.
If you had to boil it down toone big piece of advice that you
would give to anyone looking forthat first time investment
property.
SPEAKER_01 (23:42):
Yes, I think.
Do you have one?
Just get started and do it withan amount that's not going to
kill you.
There's plenty of ways to buy.
You don't need to do the$250,000renovation.
You can buy something that needs$20,000, just a nice new
kitchen.
I think you can get started fora relatively small amount of
money and just figure it out.
(24:04):
Do the kitchen, do the bath.
What's it like to hire aplumber?
What's it like to hire a smallcontractor?
What's it like to have a loanand get the money from the bank?
So yeah, you start in that andthen if that's interesting and
works and then maybe you have atenant and okay managing a
tenant right is like can i dothat do i hate it right oh they
call me at you know 10 p.m igotta fix this thing like some
(24:25):
people love that and some peoplethat's like you know the worst
thing on earth so patrickimagine you get
SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
a
SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
tenant and then they're
SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
calling you at like 7 a.m
SPEAKER_01 (24:32):
yeah 10 p.m i can do that any day 7 a.m forget about
SPEAKER_00 (24:36):
it yeah terminated
SPEAKER_01 (24:39):
you are evicted but you know that is the tricky
thing with renting you know withmanaging a rental property.
It's like not everything is thaturgent, but some things really
are.
I mean, that first building, forwhatever reason, the furnace
kept going out.
And it was like two of our verygood friends living in this
apartment.
And so in the winter, thefurnace would just give out and
(25:00):
it had to be just like reset.
But that could be at 10 p.m.
It could be at 6 a.m.
And like you can't let that go.
SPEAKER_02 (25:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
Like you can't let that go for two hours.
Like they'll be freezing, youknow.
Yeah.
So yeah, that's part of it too.
It's like, okay, do you likemanaging, managing apartments?
And then you figure out systemsthere.
Like maybe you hire a propertymanager, maybe you hire a
maintenance person, whatever.
SPEAKER_03 (25:20):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (25:21):
But yeah, once you figure it out with one, like,
SPEAKER_00 (25:23):
you know, then you can kind of keep going from
there if you want.
That seems to be very similar towhat Levi said when we, when we
asked the same question.
So it seems like that's what we,you know, you got to give it a
shot and you figure it out alongthe way.
You know, you just learn a lotby the act of doing right.
Yeah, I think so.
So
SPEAKER_01 (25:37):
yeah.
Even a single family house, likerent, rent where you live and
then buy a single family houseand rent that out.
I mean, that's, you know, Imean, there's lots of different
ways to try to do it, but
SPEAKER_00 (25:45):
cool.
Is there anything you would havedone differently on that very
first property?
You turn back time and you jumpthrough the, the Avengers time
portal and you're like, allright, I'm going to change this
one thing about what I did onthis investment.
What was, is there anything, ordo you feel like you pretty much
aced it?
SPEAKER_01 (25:58):
Yeah.
I mean, we got lucky with thetiming and the cost, you know,
that's like, that's certainlyone way to, you know, make your
own luck is like, we just boughtit for so cheap and at a good
time and a good location.
Like we made a good amount ofmoney on it, but mostly because
of that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:11):
So
SPEAKER_01 (26:12):
yeah, I think one thing is just a better budget.
I think that's always the game.
especially because the thingthat people are going to pay for
living in an apartment is likethe finishes.
Like that's kind of all theycare about, but that's like the
last thing you're doing.
So if you're running out ofmoney or you're like running out
of patients, you could likecheap out in the finishes and
(26:32):
that'll just kill you.
You know, we did that.
And I think the one thing Iregret like physically at the
building is on the first floorunit.
Like by the time we were done, Iwas like, we just don't have any
more money.
And so we just put in like HomeDepot cabinets and stuff, you
know?
So on like a$250,000 renovation,we might've saved, you know,
$1,500 on that final part, whichlike clearly does not make
sense.
So yeah, so like a good budgetso that you can spend the money
(26:54):
at the end when you...
I've never thought about that.
Like the finishes is kind of...
It's like the first thing thatcatches people's eyes in an
apartment.
Yeah, it's like all you careabout is a nice shower, a nice
kitchen, nice countertops.
Like that's really almost allthat someone cares about renting
it.
And that could change the rentfrom$1,200 to$1,500, which is a
big deal.
But yeah, as the person likedeveloping it, you're like, oh
God, more money.
(27:17):
But that's...
like when you don't want tocheap out.
So.
SPEAKER_03 (27:20):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (27:21):
Yeah.
Okay.
Patrick, do you have any morequestions before I jump to a
couple of like funsies?
No, I'm, I'm good.
Okay.
So I got to ask dream Cincyproperty to buy.
So like, Money's no object.
Is there a historic building inCincinnati or a place or a
neighborhood maybe where you seea lot of places where you're
just like, I would love to getinto this investment, just
(27:41):
haven't done it yet?
SPEAKER_01 (27:42):
Yeah, no, it's really good.
Yeah, a few probably favoritebuildings.
The Gwynn Building, which isdowntown.
It's being developed now.
I think it's like the family ofWalmart money.
Okay.
Yeah, it's currently beingrenovated.
They're doing a high-end hotel,but that's probably my favorite
building in Cincinnati.
What's it called again?
The
SPEAKER_00 (28:00):
Gwynn Building.
G-W-Y-N-N-E building.
SPEAKER_01 (28:03):
Yeah, it's incredible.
SPEAKER_00 (28:04):
125,000 square foot, 13 story Gwynn building
completed in 1913, designed byErnest Flagg, cool name, who
designed the Singer Building inNew York and the Corcoran
Gallery of Art in Washington,D.C.
SPEAKER_01 (28:18):
That's a cool building.
It's sick.
It has these massive cast ironwindows.
I think I talked to somebodythat was working on that
renovation.
I think each window is likeseven grand or something.
Holy cow.
Yeah.
Now it's going to be a hotel.
It was offices, like lowoccupancy.
and see offices, but they'rerenovating it, I think, man, to
a boutique hotel.
SPEAKER_00 (28:34):
Huh.
From 1935 until 1956, the officebuilding housed the headquarters
of Procter& Gamble.
Some Cincinnati trivia for youthere.
The P&G's like the Cincinnaticompany.
Oh, yeah.
It's like every building.
It's like
SPEAKER_01 (28:44):
for some period of time, P&G was there.
For a period of time.
Okay.
Yeah, so that's definitely oneof my favorites.
You know, I think as far asareas, you know, over the line,
there's still a little bit leftto do, but there's some crazy
stats there of like in the year2000 or maybe late 90s, there
was like 3,000 vacant buildings.
And I think now there's like 50.
So like over the line.
50?
Yeah.
(29:05):
Like 5-0.
In over the line.
So like, you know, most of themhave now been redeveloped.
Okay.
So there's not much opportunityleft there.
But, you know, I think NorthernKentucky, I think as you go into
the hillside, Yeah, I think I'm,like, most bullish on the area
between over the Rhine and,like, where the University of
Cincinnati is.
SPEAKER_00 (29:22):
Okay.
Like, all the stuff that's,like, on the hill going up into
Cleveland.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (29:26):
like, Mount Auburn is really, you know, kind of
underdeveloped.
I mean, just that whole area,and you're so close to downtown.
And there's a lot of energy now,like, coming to the West End
with, you know, FC Cincinnati,and they're going to invest, you
know, a billion dollars intoreal estate there.
Yeah, yeah.
There'll be excitement there,but it's also slow.
Okay.
I think that's, like...
the
SPEAKER_00 (29:43):
other
SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
part
SPEAKER_00 (29:43):
of this whole business.
I'm going to throw this one outthere.
Just curious.
One of my favorite cool lookingbuildings in Cincinnati that I
always, you know, when peopletalk about like buying historic
properties and like renovatingthem is the Imperial Theater.
SPEAKER_02 (29:56):
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (29:57):
yeah.
I would love nothing more thanto see that like restored and
like become like a beautiful arthouse cinema.
It'd be awesome.
The Mohawk one?
I think so.
I don't know the exact street,but yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:10):
It's a great building.
SPEAKER_00 (30:11):
I pass it every day when I drive home.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (30:13):
they're trying.
They're working on it.
But yeah, it all just takes solong.
SPEAKER_00 (30:16):
Takes so long.
A lot of money.
Okay.
Well, my last question that I'vegot here before we kind of wrap
up.
Patrick and I are big moviefans.
We routinely talk about movieshere on this podcast.
In fact, we do segments where wetalk about famous buildings from
movies or whatever.
So my question for you issimple, and I think we should
probably start asking all of ourguests.
What's your favorite movie andwhy?
SPEAKER_03 (30:37):
Ooh.
SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
It doesn't have to be like...
you know, one favorite, theyhave Letterboxd asks the four
favorites or whatever.
If you have one that you'relike, this just jumps to mind.
SPEAKER_01 (30:46):
I really like Minority Report.
Okay.
Huh.
I think that's, yeah, I don'teven really love Tom Cruise.
I think he's, you know, he'sgood, obviously.
That Tom Cruise guy is okay.
He's pretty good.
I think he's gonna have a goodcareer.
Yeah.
But no, I like Minority Report.
I like the original Gladiator alot.
Like, that still sticks with mefrom when I originally saw it
in, like, whatever that was,90-something.
(31:08):
Um...
Yeah, I'm trying to think ofmovies I've seen.
I've never heard anyone sayMinority Report is their
favorite.
I respect that.
It's up there.
And it's funny because when Ithink of favorite movie, I think
I'm still just like, I rememberthe movies I saw pretty young.
Yeah, right.
Those stick in my brain.
I think certainly I've seen abetter movie in the last five
years.
But that's where my mind goesto.
(31:28):
Stuff I saw when I was 15 orwhatever.
SPEAKER_00 (31:31):
Yeah.
No, that's awesome.
Unique pick.
Yeah.
And I appreciate the Gladiatorpick.
UNKNOWN (31:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:36):
Man, when Gladiator 2 was coming out in theaters, I
just rewatched the first one andI was just like, that's one of
those movies that's justawesome.
It's awesome.
Just struck by the power offilm.
The opening scene is just like
SPEAKER_01 (31:47):
insane.
So, so good.
Energy from front to back.
SPEAKER_00 (31:50):
Yeah.
All right.
Well, John, it's been a pleasureto talk.
Holy cow.
Yeah, that was great until thelast moment.
SPEAKER_01 (31:56):
Yeah, you ruined the whole
SPEAKER_00 (31:57):
episode.
That's what we do the wholething now.
Restart it.
What's going on, everybody?
Welcome to it.
No, it's been a pleasurechatting with you.
Thank you for coming and hangingwith Patrick and I and letting
us bring a little K into yourcalm, you know, very
professional demeanor.
And I think it went really well.
And it was very insightfullearning about renovating old
buildings and like getting intoreal estate investing with
(32:18):
historic buildings.
So we wish you luck.
We can't wait to have you backon the podcast sometime soon.
In the meantime, though, wherecan listeners follow you and
learn more about all yourprojects and stuff?
SPEAKER_01 (32:28):
Yeah, my company is Kunst.
You know, we do historicrenovations and then mostly I
would say social media, Twitter,X and LinkedIn.
It's John J.
Blatchford.
So that's where I'm at.
Okay, awesome.
Yeah, there's a website,kunz.us, but there's not much.
I mean, it just shows ourprojects.
So I'm really more active like Xand LinkedIn.
(32:49):
Can you spell that just forthe...
oh yeah so our website iskunst.us
SPEAKER_00 (32:55):
kunst.us cool awesome okay awesome and that's
another episode of the rentishin the books remember to follow
us on social media at therentish pod on instagram you can
also just like us subscribe andhit the ring a ding bell for all
those notifications for all thefuture episodes i was trying to
break me say uh and uh yeah giveus a rating or a review and
(33:16):
email questions attherentishpod.com if you have
any feedback or any kind oftopic suggestions that you want
to float our way.
We'd love to talk about it withyou.
I've been Zach.
That's been Patrick.
And we'll see you guys nexttime.
And that's been John.
And that's been John.
And we'll see you guys next
SPEAKER_02 (33:30):
week.
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