October 27, 2025 • 36 mins
Pat and Zach are back with another Real Estate Rundown episode, breaking down two stories shaping the future of how we search, rent, and buy homes:
Zillow + ChatGPT: The Future of Home Search
Zillow just became the first real estate app integrated directly into ChatGPT — letting you ask for homes or rentals by chat and see live listings instantly. The guys discuss what this means for agents, buyers, and how AI might change real estate search forever. Read more: Zillow Group announcement
Gen Z’s Housing Shift
Gen Z is rewriting the rules of homeownership. With sky-high prices and limited supply, more young adults are choosing long-term renting, co-buying with family, or embracing flexible living over traditional ownership. What does that mean for the housing market — and the future of the American dream? Read more: Newsweek — How Gen Z’s Lifestyle Shift Could Change the U.S. Housing Market
The guys unpack how AI, affordability, and generational change are reshaping real estate from home search to home life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:35):
What's going on, everybody?
Welcome to season two of theRentish Podcast.
I'm Zach here with my co-hostPatrick.
SPEAKER_01 (00:40):
We're two rookies chasing the dream of real estate
investing.
In this podcast, we'll talkabout property management, wild
stories, and everything inbetween.
We don't know it all yet.
SPEAKER_00 (00:51):
But that's the point.
We're learning as we go, justlike you.
We'll bring in the experts toeducate and inform us and we'll
figure it out together.
So let's laugh, learn, and diveinto real estate side by side.
Patrick, no funny business.
We're down to business.
I'm messing around today.
Not messing around.
We're on a time crunch.
This is what we call theexpedited experience over here.
That's what we're gonna call it.
(01:11):
Expedited experience.
I'm timing this.
I'm trying to ride the vibe ofthis espresso shot that I just
took.
So we've got T minus 20 minutesuntil I start to check out.
So we're just gonna go right oninto this one.
Thank you for listening toanother episode of the Rentish
Podcast.
We talk about real estateproperty management stuff.
If you like the podcast, be sureto like and subscribe.
Hit the notification bell if youwant to be alerted when new
(01:32):
episodes come out and follow uson socials at the Rentish Pod or
email us questions at theRentish Pod.com.
If you have a question, topicidea, conversation starter, or
just a movie that you want us towatch.
I don't know.
We're open to whatever.
Yeah, I'll take movie rex.
We'll respond to anything.
If you email us, we will respondto you.
And if you want to as well, youcan leave a comment on the
episode on Spotify.
(01:53):
That's a new thing.
So there's like comments on theepisodes.
Let us know what your favoritepart of the episode was.
SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
See that come up?
SPEAKER_00 (01:58):
Really?
Yeah, yeah.
Shout out to the people.
Producer Muse was talking, buthe still doesn't have a mic.
So what's the status on gettingthat repaired?
How is that going?
Oh got the tracking number?
Is it in the mail?
One month.
We got one month until Musse cantalk again.
So sorry everybody.
You guys are just gonna have todeal with not hearing his sultry
tones.
Uh but we're gonna go ahead andkeep on rolling.
(02:20):
Pat, today we've got real estaterundown.
Yeah, you want to hit us withthat.
SPEAKER_01 (02:25):
What does that mean?
Is that the news segment one?
SPEAKER_00 (02:26):
Yeah, it's the news.
We're gonna talk about the news.
SPEAKER_01 (02:28):
Yeah, so we've gonna talk about uh article one is
Zillow plus ChatGPT.
We're gonna talk about howZillow just launched inside
ChatGPT, letting users ask forhomes, see listings, photos, and
prices, and even book tours, allin a chat conversation.
House hunting just got a majortech upgrade.
Fascinating.
(02:48):
And then article two uh is Gen Cin the housing market.
It's a uh an article fromNewsweek, and only about a
quarter of Gen Zers own homes,and many are choosing to rent
long term.
This generation is prioritizingflexibility, shared ownership,
and experiences over traditionalmilestones like buying a house
or starting a family.
(03:08):
Very cool.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:10):
Sounds like a lot of educating stuff that we're going
to do.
They might say that.
They might say that.
I didn't really ask, how's yourday going?
You all you are good over there.
Thanks for asking.
How's the energy on your side ofthe room?
SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
Everything cool over there?
I'm good.
Yeah.
The half-life of this caffeinehasn't worn off yet, but I'm
chilling.
Yeah.
Chilling.
Chilling.
SPEAKER_00 (03:29):
I think it might be a combination of a busy work
week and just the rain and gloomoutside.
Yeah.
It's just like, man, I just wantto lay under a blanket and watch
Gilmore girls.
But I can't.
Yeah.
We have to do the podcast.
I guess we can have to do thispodcast.
That's what we have to do atthis point.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:45):
No, yeah.
The Ray-Day vibes is uh I'mdefinitely looking forward to
like being home in a blanket.
SPEAKER_00 (03:50):
Yep, me too.
All right.
Well, that's enough jibberjabber.
Want to talk about news?
Let's do it.
SPEAKER_01 (03:57):
Um, yeah, so as mentioned, we're gonna be
talking about um Zillowintegrating chat GPT into their
their uh functionality.
Um there's an article fromZillow Group uh called The
Future of Home Search.
But basically they launched anofficial Zillow app inside Chat
GPT, so now you can literallyask show me homes for sale in
(04:20):
Denver under 600K, or like findme a two-bedroom rental in
Seattle, and Chat GPT instantlypulls up Zillow listings with
like the photos, maps, prices,unless you click straight to
Zillow to book a tour, contactan agent, etc.
I don't know.
I mean this this seemed kind ofpretty like an obvious next step
to me.
(04:41):
And it just kind of sounds likelike to me, it just sounds like
a chat GPT integrated withZillow filters.
So instead of having manuallyput in the filters, you can just
ask it in conversation form.
SPEAKER_00 (04:49):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
Uh I don't know like what your thoughts are.
SPEAKER_00 (04:52):
Not seeing it right off the bat.
I was gonna try and pull it upon my uh on my Zillow app and
try and like do it live on theshow, but I don't see where it's
integrated in.
So maybe it's like they'rerolling it out for like specific
people.
Let me see.
Or maybe my app isn't updated.
I'll check that too.
SPEAKER_01 (05:07):
Yeah, it might be the app updated.
I haven't I haven't personallytried it yet.
Okay, but basically, why itmatters over 800 million people
use chat GPT weekly.
That's kind of crazy.
800 million?
Holy cow, 800 million?
That's like there's go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (05:24):
No, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_01 (05:25):
That's like a lot of people.
Well, because there's like 8billion on planet earth, right?
So that's like 10% of planetearth.
Am I doing there?
That's crazy.
It's uh are you one of thosepeople?
I don't use it weekly, no.
Okay.
I'm a daily user.
Really?
Okay.
Nearly daily, yeah.
No, I maybe use it like once ortwice a month.
SPEAKER_00 (05:47):
I mean, AI is an interesting conversation.
I mean, and that you know, Idon't know how down that rabbit
hole we want to get because Iknow we want to focus it more on
the real estate and propertymanagement aspects of
everything.
But I'll just say, as a personaltool in my life, like whether
it's like managing personalfinances or travel plans, or I
find Chat GPTs sometimes moreuseful than Google search
(06:08):
results recently because itgives you more of a detailed
breakdown and sourcesinformation from all these
different websites, and it justseems a bit more intelligent
doing it.
Like I don't trust Gemini atall.
Anytime I search something onGoogle, I'm like, okay, what
does Gemini say?
And then then I have to scrolldown to find exactly what I'm
looking for specifically.
But I feel like Chat GPT hasbeen very accurate.
(06:28):
And the thing, the thing that Ireally love about it is it can
take data, change it, distillit, or like spit it out into a
different form.
So if I give it like a gro likegroceries or a bill, it can help
like personal finance, like listeverything like down, find a
budget for you.
Um, right now I've been doing alot of wedding planning.
No one cares about that on thepod, but I like that has been a
(06:49):
very useful tool.
That thank you, Pat.
That's been a useful tool forlike budgeting and like like
everything and gettingeverything in a spreadsheet,
RSVPs, deadline, things likethat.
So it's like it's it is a toolthat I use on a nearly
day-to-day day.
Writing emails, writing textmessages.
Um it's it's indispose.
It's it's like unbelievable.
(07:09):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (07:09):
Wow, okay.
I yeah, the main thing that Iwould like try to use it for is
because I chose trivia ishelping with trivia questions.
It is so bad.
It's so like it the questionsare either yeah, it's either
they're either wrong or they'renot, it doesn't get no matter
how many details I give it aboutwhat exactly I'm looking for, it
doesn't understand what a goodbar trivia question is.
(07:30):
I don't know, like I've just hadso many frustrating experiences
with it.
It's really good for me athelping to reword things.
Like if I have the answer and Ihave the general idea, can you
rephrase this into a question?
It's really, really good atthat.
And that's like the main thing II would say I use Chat GPT for.
But helping to actually come upwith like the content for like
that specific thing uh is reallyunhelpful.
I like Reddit, like Reddit to meis really good.
(07:51):
Like I go to Reddit, eitherGoogle or Reddit for like if I'm
looking for stuff because likeReddit's like real people who
and like there's a subreddit forliterally anything.
Like there's people, like it'sjust crazy.
Like if you're looking forsomething, it's like there's
people who are like reallyknowledgeable about this niche
stuff and go directly to thesource, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (08:06):
So you're saying you trust in human capacity more
than AI capacity.
SPEAKER_01 (08:11):
I mean, to a certain extent, I mean I don't know
about trust because obviouslyhumans are not, but like AI is
just taking that data from whatpeople have done.
SPEAKER_00 (08:19):
Okay, so then how do you feel about it being
implemented in real estate andsearching for property?
SPEAKER_01 (08:23):
Yeah, back to this.
This makes total sense.
I mean, because obviously, likethe data that they're that
they're using within the Zillowapp is stuff that already exists
in Zillow.
So if they're just using theZillow data to just jet make it
like kind of modernize with theAI thing.
And I totally totally get it.
I mean, it seems like the nextstep.
If you can just like instead oflike using the rigid filters, if
you can just say what you wantto say into like a text, it'll
(08:45):
it'll save time.
I don't think it's like thishuge groundbreaking thing
personally.
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
Right off the dome, first really useful use case of
Chat GPT integration with Zillathat I can think of is you hit
the microphone button andverbally say, Hey Zillow, I'm
looking for a house that hasthree bedrooms and two baths.
I would like it to have afenced-in yard with a like blah
blah blah blah.
If it can have a basement that'sfinished, that would be great.
(09:11):
I would also like it to be in aneighborhood that's kind of
walkable and you could literallyjust list out everything and
kind of be more emotive and likedetailed with what exactly
you're looking for.
Right.
And if it can smartly, which Ithink it I think ChatGPT is
pretty impressive a lot of thetimes, it does screw up,
obviously it's a robot, but likeit you can if it could distill
(09:32):
that information into a morepersonalized search.
To me, I think that just becausethere's so there is so much crap
on Zillow.
Like, yeah, oh well, not I meanthat sounds strong, that's a
strong word to say, but likethere's a lot of stuff that I'm
not interested in.
Yeah, right.
So it's like even though I havemy filter set to like, okay, I'm
looking for a home that's lessthan this amount of money that
has two beds, three baths, orwhatever it is, and you do that
(09:54):
filter, there's still gonna bestuff that comes up in that
search that I'm like, I don'tcare about this.
I don't want that, that's notwhat I'm looking for.
This is not the exact kind ofhouse that I want.
This isn't the exact location.
And it's like you can manuallydo a lot of stuff to make it
come down there, but if like ifthe AI can kind of learn what
you're looking for and then helpsuggest or push the the things
that are closest to what you'relooking for to the front, that
(10:17):
seems like a cool time saver.
SPEAKER_01 (10:18):
No, that makes sense.
It it really seems rather thanlike brand new functionality, it
seems like a time saver.
So I don't know.
Personally, in the in the worldof like AI, I don't think this
is anything groundbreaking, butit makes sense like that this is
our this is happening with Imean this is gonna be a reality
with any app.
SPEAKER_00 (10:33):
Right.
Is there any app that you use ona day-to-day basis that can
start to integrate some form ofmachine learning tool to like
streamline the experience,having it kind of learn a little
bit about you and about andabout your tastes and everything
like that?
I I can't this is gonna justhappen across the board.
Like I'm waiting for the AIintegration and friggin' like
Gmail.
Like you know, it's definitelygonna be happening.
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
Or any app in terms of what's next, some future
updates that are coming are newconstruction listings.
Okay.
Um immersive 3D tours, which Iknow these kind of exist
already, like depend if if youwant to add it to your listing,
but I'd be interested to seelike what they mean in terms of
like throwing like chat GPT andAI in the in the mix with that.
(11:17):
Like, will it just will AI basedon like photos or floor plans or
whatever, will AI be able tolike do a whole walkthrough like
as if they were in the property?
Because that that would bereally cool.
SPEAKER_00 (11:29):
Well, it would be cool, but it'd be also a little
concerning because it's like ifa robot's showing me a fake 3D
rendering walkthrough of ahouse, like what if there's
actually ghosts everywhere?
SPEAKER_01 (11:39):
That's what you that's what your brain went to.
What about the ghosts?
SPEAKER_00 (11:45):
That was the first thing I thought of.
I was I get the point.
I was trying to think of like alike a like a bad like proper.
I was like, what if there'scracks on the walls?
What about the ghosts?
You never know.
You never know.
You never know.
SPEAKER_01 (11:59):
I I see what you're saying though.
Like if there's any if it's likecould be falsified, right?
SPEAKER_00 (12:03):
It's like it's like showing you, it's like uh it's
like you're on Tinder and it'san AI person.
Yeah, you can catfish by a fakeproperty, but it's in digital.
SPEAKER_01 (12:12):
No, that makes that makes I could definitely see,
yeah.
I don't know what they mean bythat.
The immersive 3D tours.
And then also coming new soon ismore personalized AI tools.
SPEAKER_00 (12:20):
Real real vague, there.
SPEAKER_01 (12:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:22):
I mean, like here's the thing is that like Zillow is
already the app to find propertylistings.
It's like that's the one thatcomes to mind when most people
think about okay, I'm gonna lookfor an apartment for rent, I'm
gonna check Zillow, I'm lookingfor a house, I'm gonna have
Zillow.
Right.
It's like Zillow home alerts islike a commonly used term in my
age demographic.
What where can they go next?
(12:44):
You know what I mean?
It's like, okay, so obviouslyChat GPT integration was the
next thing to build out theZillow app, but it's like
there's only so many moreplaces, there's so many more
things you can do.
It's like it's like The Simpsonsmeme.
It's like, stop, stop, he'salready dead.
It's like that's Zilla with allother like listing sites,
basically.
It's like they've just kind oflike taken the cake and ran with
it.
SPEAKER_01 (13:03):
Well, I got some questions for you.
Okay, some discussion questions.
All right, I got a question.
What does this mean for realestate agents?
SPEAKER_00 (13:12):
It certainly makes their job a little less
important, at least on the frontend.
Like, I mean, obviously, youstill need an agent to meet you
at the place, show you theproperty, but theoretically,
this might open the door morefor mom and pop people to not
have to need that kind ofexperience.
Like, yeah, if you can integratewith if you can use Zillow to
list your home for sale and thenhave an AI basically like be the
(13:34):
the the concierge between themand you, and then they can like
organize a showing or organize awhatever, and then it's like you
might remove the need for a lotof those people, maybe.
SPEAKER_01 (13:47):
Hmm, yeah, that that that would be interesting
because I I didn't even thinkabout it in terms of like the
agent.
I was I was more thinking aboutthis as like a a more
streamlined filter, but yeah,yeah, I guess you're right.
If there's like agents who arehelping you find like the exact
house or property that you'relooking for, and then AI can
just do that part for you.
SPEAKER_00 (14:05):
Yeah.
If you can like you start aconversation on the Zillow app,
and it's like, hey, what's up?
I'm Zilly, the Zillow AI agentor whatever.
It's like I'm gonna be yourpersonal, personal real estate
agent.
What kind of home are youlooking for?
And then it's like I like thishome.
It's like, and then it's likedot dot dot dot dot dot.
It's like, all right, we'vecontacted the landlord, the the
owner of this property and askedif you they'd be willing to
(14:26):
schedule a tour and blah blahblah.
And then it's like basically youjust remove the real estate
agent's entire job.
SPEAKER_01 (14:32):
Yeah, but I feel like a lot of times when I've
toured properties, it has beenwith the agent.
SPEAKER_00 (14:36):
So if a mom and pop could just do it, why not?
Yeah, right.
No, that's a good idea.
If they're available too.
Right, right, right.
As you're probably savingbecause how much money do you
pay in a real estate like uhlike an agent?
It's a percentage, right?
Yeah, yeah.
You can just avoid that entirespend.
SPEAKER_01 (14:49):
No, that's that's an interesting thought.
I'd be interested to see howlike this all shakes out in the
next like couple years.
So the bottom line is Zillow'snew chat GPT app makes home
searching conversational.
It blends real data, AI, andsimplicity, letting your next
move literally start with achat.
So yeah, that's that's all I gotfor for this article.
(15:10):
Okay.
Pretty I mean, prettystraightforward, but it's I
think it's a noteworthy, youknow, step in in the AI
direction that humanity seems tobe going.
SPEAKER_00 (15:19):
As a famous, as the famous kip once said from
Napoleon Dynamite, I lovetechnology.
Is that a direct quote?
Yeah, it was, right?
Don't they say he sings that tohis his the his wife at the end
of the movie?
Oh, does he?
I love technology.
I've been chatting with babesall day online.
That's a good line to see.
No, I love talking about tech.
I think it's fun.
(15:39):
I think chat GPT and AI iscertainly the the buzzword of
the 2020s so far in terms oftech.
So curious to see where it goesin the second half of the
decade.
All right, Patrick, you readyfor the next article?
Yeah.
All right, well, I'm gonna readthis one, and uh it's
appropriate because there'snothing Gen Z likes more than
(16:01):
having a millennial talk abouttheir generation.
So perfect uh perfect logic forme.
Yeah.
So how Gen Z lifestyle shiftcould change the U.S.
housing market.
This comes from Newsweek fromOctober 5th, 2025.
Gen Z in the housing struggle.
Those born between 1997 and2012, they're trying to break
(16:22):
into the housing market, but theprogress is kind of stalling.
So about 26.1% of Gen Zers ownhomes in 2024, which was
basically a flat number from2023.
Among the oldest Gen Zers, just33% own homes, compared to about
40% of their parents at the sameexact age.
Uh so like kind of likecomparing and trusting the age
(16:43):
rates from the same time.
Rising prices, high mortgagerates, and tight supply are
making homeownership harder andless appealing.
Yeah, they're kind of startingto redefine what home means and
kind of how they get there aswell.
So I don't know, Patrick, ourresident, you would technically
fall into the Gen Z bracket.
SPEAKER_01 (16:59):
Uh yeah, very much so.
SPEAKER_00 (17:01):
Okay.
So I know we probably coveredthis on other episodes of the
Rentish before, but it makessense to kind of just do it here
since we're talking about thenews before we get into some
statistics and stuff.
Where are you with the homebuying process?
SPEAKER_01 (17:12):
Haven't started yet, and I'm not particularly
interested for the next I livein the city, in an apartment in
the city.
I don't want to buy a home untilI'm like moving out of the city.
Okay.
And then like I then I'll like II really do plan on buying a
home probably in the next threeor four years.
I do have friends who've boughthouses, and I think it this
seems to be more of like arenting versus buying thing.
(17:54):
But I think a big thing with GenZ is living at home, like after
college, or like saving, likebeing living with your parents
rent-free, saving up for ahouse, and then just buying a
house for people who want to gointo the home buying without
having to pay the high rents.
Like I have multiple friendswho've kind of taken that route.
Like living, like I have I havea buddy actually in Buffalo
who's been living at home, savedup, and then now just bought a
(18:16):
bought a house, but like justskipped the renting altogether.
But most people I know at thispoint are still renting and not
home buying.
SPEAKER_00 (18:25):
I think you're right.
I mean, I definitely think thatthat seems to be the pattern.
And I mean, that was somethingthat, like, not to get all
existential about millenniallife versus Gen Z life, but it's
like something that was likekind of like an idea that was
like pounded into your head whenyou're in high school for my age
range, like graduating highschool, going to college was
like you were flu fluing thecoop.
Fluing the coop, flying thecoop, whatever the whatever the
(18:46):
terminology flying the coop.
It's like you're you're leavingthe nest.
You you like when you turn acertain age, you graduate high
school, you go to college, thatis you leaving and going away.
That is you becoming an adult.
SPEAKER_01 (18:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:59):
So it was like for my generation, I feel like, and
for my age range, it was like weleft our parents' homes in high
school.
We went to college, we we livedin dorms, then we lived in
apartments, and then wegraduated college and it was on
to the real world with a big boyjob, quote unquote, where you
get a job, you get an apartment,you you maybe you have a
significant other, you live withthem, or you live with other
roommates, you save up, you geta house.
And the idea of kind of movingback in with your parents after
(19:22):
kind of like that next stage inlife of going from high school
to college was kind of lookeddown upon in my age range, which
is kind of, you know, now itseems so simple, right?
It's like hindsight being 2020,where it's like, sure, if I
would have had that opportunityto not pay rent and live at home
and it wasn't gonna be likefrowned upon, I would have
certainly done that because Iprobably would have been farther
(19:43):
along in my personal financesnow.
Yeah.
But at that time it seemed likesuch a anti-you don't do that.
Like you're a quote unquoteloser that if you move in with
your parents, like that makessense.
SPEAKER_01 (19:55):
I I feel like that stigma has gone away.
Like just speaking as a Gen Zperson, like that's not really a
stigma as much.
I personally don't did not wantto live back with my parents.
Like, and I I know a bunch ofother people who were in the
same boats.
It's like I like I don't care ifit's gonna cost more money.
I want to kind of be a littlebit independent, not have to
share a space.
Just like I genuinely like justwas ready to like kind of be on
(20:16):
my own after college, eventhough like you know, obviously
paying higher rent and whatnotthan paying free, you know,
rent, no, no rent with livingwith my parents.
I just kind of wanted to likeget the city experience and like
get my own apartment and ownspace.
But yeah, I mean, I I know a lotof people who are just like,
yeah, I'm I'm living at home.
And it's not kind of like a ooh,like, you know, why are you
living?
Like, I've got like a friendwho's like a software engineer,
(20:39):
like making a lot of money, likestill living at home, because
he's just like trying to buy abuy a house and doesn't really
is not particularly interestedin and that and I'm saying I
completely agree that stigma isgone because now as a
31-year-old dude, I hear thatand I'm like, genius.
SPEAKER_00 (20:54):
Yeah, I would so much rather not be paying rent.
I would be so much farther alongin my finances that I could
probably afford a much nicerhouse if I was looking to buy.
So maybe that you know that allkind of goes into this whole
thing with Gen Z kind of likebeing a little bit slower into
the game.
But yeah, so mortgage ratesrising above 6%, prices still
high.
Most Gen Zers are choosing torent instead of buy.
(21:15):
So the people that are movingout that are deciding to get
into real estate, they'rethey're the renter side, they're
not the buyer side.
Yeah, right.
In 2024, they made up about 47%of recent movers in the rental
market, which is the biggestshare of any generation.
Makes sense.
Finally getting to that agerange where it's surprising.
Yeah, uh, by 2030, Gen Z isexpected to become America's
(21:37):
largest renter group.
That also makes sense.
Also makes sense there.
Survey data got some numbers foryou.
More numbers.
74% of Gen Z say renting issmarter than buying right now.
SPEAKER_01 (21:48):
See, that's an interesting one.
That is fascinating.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:52):
I mean, maybe they're just more educated about
the cost of the market.
Like right now is, I mean, it'snever what we've learned from a
lot of our guests, it's never athe perfect time to enter the
real estate market.
But you have to imagine thatjust like everything else in
this world, everything's gonnacontinue to get more expensive.
Right.
So it's like there's no timelike the present.
It's fascinating that 74% ofpeople say that now is a bad
(22:14):
time when surely it's gonna benow is the cheapest it will ever
be because it's always gonna getmore expensive.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (22:19):
Yeah, and I'm I'm surprised by like 74% think it's
it's smarter versus I'm like,does that mean smarter for like
my financial situation rightnow, or just like smarter in
general?
You know what I mean?
Like if you're able to rent orbuy, maybe like because I think
a lot of Gen Z people are likerestricted into like just
renting.
Sure.
Right.
And like I if you're likerestricted into renting, are you
(22:40):
are you still gonna say it'ssmarter?
Because like at that point,like, yeah, I mean, if you can't
afford to buy, then likeobviously it's not smart to buy.
SPEAKER_00 (22:47):
I would be curious as to what there's a lot of
nuance there, so I don't I don'tknow that we don't have that
nuance in the percentages, but Igot a couple more for you.
59% view renting as a long-termchoice, not just a step toward
ownership.
And 83% say it gives them morefreedom to save for experiences,
not just assets.
I get that.
So all makes sense.
Flexibility is key.
Renting allows them to move forjobs or lifestyle changes, but
(23:10):
the catch is that nearly 59% ofGen Z renters are rent burdened,
spending too much of theirincome on housing.
SPEAKER_01 (23:16):
Yeah, so that's the interesting one.
Like, I I totally, totally agreewith the flexibility part.
It's like, yeah, I mean, if Idon't want to own a home right
now, I I like the flexibility ofI'm able to live in the city or
I'm able, I don't have to payfor maintenance and all this
stuff.
It's super nice.
At the same time, it it would benice for that to be like a
choice and not feel like like,oh, I I have to rent because I
can't afford to buy, and rent isso expensive that it's taking up
(23:39):
like over a third of myexpenses, or or like whatever
the case might be.
I feel like both of those thingsare different sorts of reasons.
SPEAKER_00 (23:47):
Um so um 50 uh the 50 what is it, 50 3020?
Isn't that the 50-six?
Well, that's like the 50-3020would be like, well, you
shouldn't spend more than what?
Is it 20?
Is it 20%?
So so 20%?
SPEAKER_01 (24:01):
Well, 50-30-20, 50 is needs, 30 is wants, 20 is
savings.
That's the oh, that's what I'mthinking of.
But then the the that's justlike a basic, like just rule of
thumb as one plan of budgeting.
The the general rule of thumbwith renting is is rent should
be no more than a third of youryearly income.
Yeah, of your income aftertaxes.
(24:21):
Okay, yeah.
And and like if it's over athird, I think, of your income
after taxes that you're payingtoward rent, then I think you're
considered rent burdened.
I think is how they calculatethat.
I could be wrong, but got it.
SPEAKER_00 (24:35):
Couple more things here.
Fewer homes, fewer families.
Experts say the affordabilitycrisis in is changing not just
housing, but actually familylife as well.
So starter homes are scarce.
In fact, that word doesn't existanymore, in my opinion.
It's like that terminology youmight as well just throw out the
window because there's no housethat is affordable.
Exactly.
This this starter home now is alike a like a one-bedroom,
(24:59):
one-bath condo for a hundredthousand.
Right.
Uh, starter homes are scarce,family-sized homes come with
steep premiums.
Since 2019, the median homeprice is up 36% and the price
per square foot up 51%.
That's insane.
Many older homeowners areholding on to big homes,
creating a housing log jam.
I've never heard that sentencebefore, that blocks younger
(25:20):
families from moving up.
So bit difficult there.
That that basically is pushingGen Z to delay marriage, kids,
and household formation, becauseif you don't have space to do
it, can't do it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:32):
It's interesting because like the kids in
household formation make sense.
I like I've been feeling likeGen Z's been getting married
earlier than millennials have.
SPEAKER_00 (25:39):
You mentioned that before.
SPEAKER_01 (25:40):
Yeah, and it really feels that way.
But I mean, everyone who's likemarried, that a lot of people I
know who are married as Gen Z,they're still renting and still
are not planning on having kidsanytime soon.
So I like maybe like thetraditional view of like what
you do, which is get married,buy a house, have kids, like in
that, you know, the all within ashort time frame.
Like, even for my friends whoare getting married, it's that's
(26:02):
not what's going on.
You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:04):
I mean, I I can't say you're the only Gen Z person
I know, so Oh really?
You're the only Gen Z person Ihang out with and talk to on a
regular basis.
SPEAKER_01 (26:14):
Oh thanks.
I guess so.
You're not married, so I guessyou know.
I just got uh I have somefriends who just got engaged and
they asked, they said that I'mon the shortlist to ordain their
wedding.
So that I'm super.
SPEAKER_00 (26:26):
That's an interesting thing to say.
I don't know.
You revealed the shortlist.
I mean, they're basically sayingbribe us so that you can be the
number one.
SPEAKER_01 (26:34):
No, they they pretty much they said I'm the short
list, and I was like so honored.
I'm like, I'd be so happy to doit.
And I said who else is on thelist, and they're like, it's
just me as of now.
SPEAKER_00 (26:41):
And I'm so I might so then it's not a short list.
Then you're you're their currentfront runner.
SPEAKER_01 (26:45):
Yes.
They they were calling it ashort list, which made me think
I had more competition than Idid.
SPEAKER_00 (26:49):
That's what I was thinking, is like, hey, we've
did we've narrowed it down tothree people that we want to
ordain the wedding.
So what are you gonna do to thedeal?
SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
That's what I thought it was at first, but my
odds are looking good.
SPEAKER_00 (27:00):
Can you imagine Patrick as an ordained?
SPEAKER_01 (27:02):
I'm so unbelievably excited.
SPEAKER_00 (27:05):
Uh we're gathered here today.
Uh when you get up to thepulpit, you go, what up?
All right.
Economists point out that owninga home often triggers family
formation, stability, space, andpredictability.
All these matter, and withoutthat, many young adults are
(27:27):
putting life plans on hold.
So, what's the trend going?
Trend towards smaller homes andco-ownership.
This is interesting here.
Developers are responding toaffordability pressures by
building smaller homes andflexible living spaces.
The average new home has shrunk10 square feet per year over the
last five years, andco-ownership is on the rise.
So 25% of Gen Z homeowners havebought houses with their
(27:50):
parents, helps shoulder thatburden.
Yeah.
And 22% bought with siblings,which was double of last year's
rate.
SPEAKER_01 (27:56):
Double is crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (27:57):
That's pretty crazy.
I would never own a home with mybrother.
Uh, if you're listening, Lucas,never.
Ever.
Ever, ever, ever.
That would not happen in avideo.
SPEAKER_01 (28:06):
Also, flexible living spaces is such like a
nice way to put smaller houses.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:12):
Well, it's like how every every negative real estate
term has to sound not negative.
That sounds like a politician.
It's a flexible real livingspace.
It just means it's a broomcloset.
You put a pillow up, you'll befine.
Builders are adding designs withseparate interests, more
bathrooms, and readyrental-ready layouts to support
roommates or shared ownership.
(28:33):
So a lot of these newdevelopments are just coming
along with this expectation thatpeople might be buying
properties in a shared capacity,which is fascinating.
Would you consider doing thiswith a friend or a family
member?
Like purchasing a house.
Purchasing a house with somebodyelse.
With somebody else.
That's not a partner.
A partner.
Because it does it doesn'tspecify it says 25% with
(28:55):
parents, 22% with siblings.
It doesn't give a specificity.
SPEAKER_01 (28:58):
I would do it, I would I would do it in a
heartbeat for like an investmentproperty, for like a rental
property, and just split, likesplit the you know, it's like
less less money in, like andmaybe less yields, but like it
kind of makes it more affordablefor everybody.
Sure.
Like I would go, I would go inwith one.
But like for a house that I'mliving in, like buying for
myself to live in, I I wouldlike to own that with my partner
(29:20):
and not not have like a familymember, like you know what I
mean?
Like, so that that that would bemy stipulation.
SPEAKER_00 (29:25):
Yeah, I got you.
That makes sense.
I I agree with you.
So is Gen Z redefining theAmerican dream or just adapting
to the economy?
Patrick, you're our resident GenZ expert.
So answer the question.
SPEAKER_01 (29:36):
Are we what's the question?
SPEAKER_00 (29:37):
Is Gen Z redefining the American dream or just
adapting to the economy?
SPEAKER_01 (29:42):
I think it's adapting.
I mean, I think to a certainextent, like I think renting
makes a lot of sense.
That maybe like, and I thinkthere's there's less of a like
you said, less of a stigma, likedon't do this because it's not
socially acceptable.
Like what you have to do isthis, this, and that.
And I don't think Gen Z likecares about that kind of stuff
as much.
So on the one hand, there issome redefining, but I also
(30:04):
think that with the current realestate market being like pro
like the tightest that it's everbeen, like, it doesn't mean like
we're like redefining everythingbecause like it's like we have
all these options and we're likechoosing to, you know, I think
it is very, very restrictive atthe same time.
So I think the two things arekind of happening at the you
know.
SPEAKER_00 (30:23):
I kind of I agree with that from an outside
perspective.
I do actually think that there'sa lot of kind of rewriting of
what like the American dream issuch a phrase that is so
nebulous now that like you knowthat I if you had asked me 20
years ago what is the Americandream, I would have said house,
2.5 kids and a white picketfence in the suburbs.
You graduate, you go live, andyou go have this property, and
(30:44):
you have a nine to five job andyou have a small family, and
that's what you do.
That's the that to me.
If you had asked me that 20years ago, that's the American
dream.
But now it's like so manypeople.
People want so many differentthings in this country, and it's
so stretched thin across allspectrums that I just think that
what the American dream is is nolonger definable.
(31:05):
So I think that like this ishelping change that for sure.
It's just funny, it's like 20years ago.
If you asked somebody that noone would have said, I'm gonna
live with my parents for fiveyears after I graduate college
and then buy a house.
SPEAKER_01 (31:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:17):
And I'm and I'm not gonna get married yet because I
can't financially supportchildren or like another person.
SPEAKER_01 (31:22):
It's like or according to this article, what
was it like 59% renting longterm, like renting forever.
SPEAKER_00 (31:28):
Exactly.
You know, like oh just rent.
Yeah.
Like someone moves some there issomeone today that is leaving
their house either with theirparents' house that is moving to
like Manhattan for a job.
And they're probably thinking tothemselves, like, I may very
well rent for my 20s and 30s andjust live in Manhattan.
It's like I don't think anyonewould have said that that was
the American, quote unquote, theAmerican dream 20, 30 years ago.
SPEAKER_01 (31:52):
No, it's like my mom, it's kind of unrelated, but
my mom, Jen Gen X, um she wassaying she she recently bought a
house and she really likes thehouse, but part of her is like,
like, I don't want to have todeal with all this maintenance
stuff, and the property taxesare outrageous now that she's
paying.
And she's like, part of me isjust like, let me just have all
of this money that I spent onthis house sitting in a bank
(32:12):
account and let the interest payfor just monthly rent.
She's like, that sounds reallynice to me.
And she's like, not necessarilyhaving regrets on doing that,
but is like that's a very viableoption for her at this point and
just like not having to dealwith all the taxes and all the
stress of maintenance andwhatnot.
SPEAKER_00 (32:28):
Well, the bottom line, Patrick, Gen Z's lifestyle
shift toward flexibility,renting, and shared living could
definitely reshape housingdemand for decades to come.
They're prioritizing freedom andexperiences over traditional
milestones.
But with more homes being built,affordability will not improve
no matter how creative the nextgeneration gets.
(32:49):
And that's another episode ofthe Rentish Podcast in the
books.
Patrick, did you learn somethingtoday?
I did.
Do you want to know what Ilearned?
No, if you learned something,that's really all I care about.
Well, I hope you all out therelearned and listened and had a
good time listening to us talkabout real estate, property
management, chat GPT,technology, and Gen Z people.
(33:11):
It's been a fun ride.
And check us out on your podcastplatform of choice.
Follow The Rentish Podeverywhere you can.
Socials at the Rentish Pod.
Email us with your questions ortopic suggestions to questions
at the rentish pod.com.
And then, you know, keep up withus online.
We're available there.
Hit the notification bell if youwant to be notified when new
episodes drop on your favoritepodcast service.
(33:32):
Give us a five-star rating or uhlike whatever your podcast
service offers.
Just do it to the maximumamount.
Thank you all for listening andhanging out with us.
Until next time, I've been Zach.
That's been Patrick, and we'llsee you guys next time.
The Rentich Podcast is recordedin Cincinnati, Ohio, hosted by
Patrick Giro and me, ZachRotello.
(33:55):
Produced by Mousse Gabermescoand Charlene Mulcindani.
Edited by Elliot Mongenis.
Theme song by me, Zach Rotello.
What's going on, everybody?
Welcome to season two of theRentish Podcast.
I'm Zach here with my co-hostPatrick.
SPEAKER_01 (00:40):
We're two rookies chasing the dream of real estate
investing.
In this podcast, we'll talkabout property management, wild
stories, and everything inbetween.
We don't know it all yet.
SPEAKER_00 (00:51):
But that's the point.
We're learning as we go, justlike you.
We'll bring in the experts toeducate and inform us and we'll
figure it out together.
So let's laugh, learn, and diveinto real estate side by side.
Patrick, no funny business.
We're down to business.
I'm messing around today.
Not messing around.
We're on a time crunch.
This is what we call theexpedited experience over here.
That's what we're gonna call it.
(01:11):
Expedited experience.
I'm timing this.
I'm trying to ride the vibe ofthis espresso shot that I just
took.
So we've got T minus 20 minutesuntil I start to check out.
So we're just gonna go right oninto this one.
Thank you for listening toanother episode of the Rentish
Podcast.
We talk about real estateproperty management stuff.
If you like the podcast, be sureto like and subscribe.
Hit the notification bell if youwant to be alerted when new
(01:32):
episodes come out and follow uson socials at the Rentish Pod or
email us questions at theRentish Pod.com.
If you have a question, topicidea, conversation starter, or
just a movie that you want us towatch.
I don't know.
We're open to whatever.
Yeah, I'll take movie rex.
We'll respond to anything.
If you email us, we will respondto you.
And if you want to as well, youcan leave a comment on the
episode on Spotify.
(01:53):
That's a new thing.
So there's like comments on theepisodes.
Let us know what your favoritepart of the episode was.
SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
See that come up?
SPEAKER_00 (01:58):
Really?
Yeah, yeah.
Shout out to the people.
Producer Muse was talking, buthe still doesn't have a mic.
So what's the status on gettingthat repaired?
How is that going?
Oh got the tracking number?
Is it in the mail?
One month.
We got one month until Musse cantalk again.
So sorry everybody.
You guys are just gonna have todeal with not hearing his sultry
tones.
Uh but we're gonna go ahead andkeep on rolling.
(02:20):
Pat, today we've got real estaterundown.
Yeah, you want to hit us withthat.
SPEAKER_01 (02:25):
What does that mean?
Is that the news segment one?
SPEAKER_00 (02:26):
Yeah, it's the news.
We're gonna talk about the news.
SPEAKER_01 (02:28):
Yeah, so we've gonna talk about uh article one is
Zillow plus ChatGPT.
We're gonna talk about howZillow just launched inside
ChatGPT, letting users ask forhomes, see listings, photos, and
prices, and even book tours, allin a chat conversation.
House hunting just got a majortech upgrade.
Fascinating.
(02:48):
And then article two uh is Gen Cin the housing market.
It's a uh an article fromNewsweek, and only about a
quarter of Gen Zers own homes,and many are choosing to rent
long term.
This generation is prioritizingflexibility, shared ownership,
and experiences over traditionalmilestones like buying a house
or starting a family.
(03:08):
Very cool.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:10):
Sounds like a lot of educating stuff that we're going
to do.
They might say that.
They might say that.
I didn't really ask, how's yourday going?
You all you are good over there.
Thanks for asking.
How's the energy on your side ofthe room?
SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
Everything cool over there?
I'm good.
Yeah.
The half-life of this caffeinehasn't worn off yet, but I'm
chilling.
Yeah.
Chilling.
Chilling.
SPEAKER_00 (03:29):
I think it might be a combination of a busy work
week and just the rain and gloomoutside.
Yeah.
It's just like, man, I just wantto lay under a blanket and watch
Gilmore girls.
But I can't.
Yeah.
We have to do the podcast.
I guess we can have to do thispodcast.
That's what we have to do atthis point.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:45):
No, yeah.
The Ray-Day vibes is uh I'mdefinitely looking forward to
like being home in a blanket.
SPEAKER_00 (03:50):
Yep, me too.
All right.
Well, that's enough jibberjabber.
Want to talk about news?
Let's do it.
SPEAKER_01 (03:57):
Um, yeah, so as mentioned, we're gonna be
talking about um Zillowintegrating chat GPT into their
their uh functionality.
Um there's an article fromZillow Group uh called The
Future of Home Search.
But basically they launched anofficial Zillow app inside Chat
GPT, so now you can literallyask show me homes for sale in
(04:20):
Denver under 600K, or like findme a two-bedroom rental in
Seattle, and Chat GPT instantlypulls up Zillow listings with
like the photos, maps, prices,unless you click straight to
Zillow to book a tour, contactan agent, etc.
I don't know.
I mean this this seemed kind ofpretty like an obvious next step
to me.
(04:41):
And it just kind of sounds likelike to me, it just sounds like
a chat GPT integrated withZillow filters.
So instead of having manuallyput in the filters, you can just
ask it in conversation form.
SPEAKER_00 (04:49):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
Uh I don't know like what your thoughts are.
SPEAKER_00 (04:52):
Not seeing it right off the bat.
I was gonna try and pull it upon my uh on my Zillow app and
try and like do it live on theshow, but I don't see where it's
integrated in.
So maybe it's like they'rerolling it out for like specific
people.
Let me see.
Or maybe my app isn't updated.
I'll check that too.
SPEAKER_01 (05:07):
Yeah, it might be the app updated.
I haven't I haven't personallytried it yet.
Okay, but basically, why itmatters over 800 million people
use chat GPT weekly.
That's kind of crazy.
800 million?
Holy cow, 800 million?
That's like there's go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (05:24):
No, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_01 (05:25):
That's like a lot of people.
Well, because there's like 8billion on planet earth, right?
So that's like 10% of planetearth.
Am I doing there?
That's crazy.
It's uh are you one of thosepeople?
I don't use it weekly, no.
Okay.
I'm a daily user.
Really?
Okay.
Nearly daily, yeah.
No, I maybe use it like once ortwice a month.
SPEAKER_00 (05:47):
I mean, AI is an interesting conversation.
I mean, and that you know, Idon't know how down that rabbit
hole we want to get because Iknow we want to focus it more on
the real estate and propertymanagement aspects of
everything.
But I'll just say, as a personaltool in my life, like whether
it's like managing personalfinances or travel plans, or I
find Chat GPTs sometimes moreuseful than Google search
(06:08):
results recently because itgives you more of a detailed
breakdown and sourcesinformation from all these
different websites, and it justseems a bit more intelligent
doing it.
Like I don't trust Gemini atall.
Anytime I search something onGoogle, I'm like, okay, what
does Gemini say?
And then then I have to scrolldown to find exactly what I'm
looking for specifically.
But I feel like Chat GPT hasbeen very accurate.
(06:28):
And the thing, the thing that Ireally love about it is it can
take data, change it, distillit, or like spit it out into a
different form.
So if I give it like a gro likegroceries or a bill, it can help
like personal finance, like listeverything like down, find a
budget for you.
Um, right now I've been doing alot of wedding planning.
No one cares about that on thepod, but I like that has been a
(06:49):
very useful tool.
That thank you, Pat.
That's been a useful tool forlike budgeting and like like
everything and gettingeverything in a spreadsheet,
RSVPs, deadline, things likethat.
So it's like it's it is a toolthat I use on a nearly
day-to-day day.
Writing emails, writing textmessages.
Um it's it's indispose.
It's it's like unbelievable.
(07:09):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (07:09):
Wow, okay.
I yeah, the main thing that Iwould like try to use it for is
because I chose trivia ishelping with trivia questions.
It is so bad.
It's so like it the questionsare either yeah, it's either
they're either wrong or they'renot, it doesn't get no matter
how many details I give it aboutwhat exactly I'm looking for, it
doesn't understand what a goodbar trivia question is.
(07:30):
I don't know, like I've just hadso many frustrating experiences
with it.
It's really good for me athelping to reword things.
Like if I have the answer and Ihave the general idea, can you
rephrase this into a question?
It's really, really good atthat.
And that's like the main thing II would say I use Chat GPT for.
But helping to actually come upwith like the content for like
that specific thing uh is reallyunhelpful.
I like Reddit, like Reddit to meis really good.
(07:51):
Like I go to Reddit, eitherGoogle or Reddit for like if I'm
looking for stuff because likeReddit's like real people who
and like there's a subreddit forliterally anything.
Like there's people, like it'sjust crazy.
Like if you're looking forsomething, it's like there's
people who are like reallyknowledgeable about this niche
stuff and go directly to thesource, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (08:06):
So you're saying you trust in human capacity more
than AI capacity.
SPEAKER_01 (08:11):
I mean, to a certain extent, I mean I don't know
about trust because obviouslyhumans are not, but like AI is
just taking that data from whatpeople have done.
SPEAKER_00 (08:19):
Okay, so then how do you feel about it being
implemented in real estate andsearching for property?
SPEAKER_01 (08:23):
Yeah, back to this.
This makes total sense.
I mean, because obviously, likethe data that they're that
they're using within the Zillowapp is stuff that already exists
in Zillow.
So if they're just using theZillow data to just jet make it
like kind of modernize with theAI thing.
And I totally totally get it.
I mean, it seems like the nextstep.
If you can just like instead oflike using the rigid filters, if
you can just say what you wantto say into like a text, it'll
(08:45):
it'll save time.
I don't think it's like thishuge groundbreaking thing
personally.
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
Right off the dome, first really useful use case of
Chat GPT integration with Zillathat I can think of is you hit
the microphone button andverbally say, Hey Zillow, I'm
looking for a house that hasthree bedrooms and two baths.
I would like it to have afenced-in yard with a like blah
blah blah blah.
If it can have a basement that'sfinished, that would be great.
(09:11):
I would also like it to be in aneighborhood that's kind of
walkable and you could literallyjust list out everything and
kind of be more emotive and likedetailed with what exactly
you're looking for.
Right.
And if it can smartly, which Ithink it I think ChatGPT is
pretty impressive a lot of thetimes, it does screw up,
obviously it's a robot, but likeit you can if it could distill
(09:32):
that information into a morepersonalized search.
To me, I think that just becausethere's so there is so much crap
on Zillow.
Like, yeah, oh well, not I meanthat sounds strong, that's a
strong word to say, but likethere's a lot of stuff that I'm
not interested in.
Yeah, right.
So it's like even though I havemy filter set to like, okay, I'm
looking for a home that's lessthan this amount of money that
has two beds, three baths, orwhatever it is, and you do that
(09:54):
filter, there's still gonna bestuff that comes up in that
search that I'm like, I don'tcare about this.
I don't want that, that's notwhat I'm looking for.
This is not the exact kind ofhouse that I want.
This isn't the exact location.
And it's like you can manuallydo a lot of stuff to make it
come down there, but if like ifthe AI can kind of learn what
you're looking for and then helpsuggest or push the the things
that are closest to what you'relooking for to the front, that
(10:17):
seems like a cool time saver.
SPEAKER_01 (10:18):
No, that makes sense.
It it really seems rather thanlike brand new functionality, it
seems like a time saver.
So I don't know.
Personally, in the in the worldof like AI, I don't think this
is anything groundbreaking, butit makes sense like that this is
our this is happening with Imean this is gonna be a reality
with any app.
SPEAKER_00 (10:33):
Right.
Is there any app that you use ona day-to-day basis that can
start to integrate some form ofmachine learning tool to like
streamline the experience,having it kind of learn a little
bit about you and about andabout your tastes and everything
like that?
I I can't this is gonna justhappen across the board.
Like I'm waiting for the AIintegration and friggin' like
Gmail.
Like you know, it's definitelygonna be happening.
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
Or any app in terms of what's next, some future
updates that are coming are newconstruction listings.
Okay.
Um immersive 3D tours, which Iknow these kind of exist
already, like depend if if youwant to add it to your listing,
but I'd be interested to seelike what they mean in terms of
like throwing like chat GPT andAI in the in the mix with that.
(11:17):
Like, will it just will AI basedon like photos or floor plans or
whatever, will AI be able tolike do a whole walkthrough like
as if they were in the property?
Because that that would bereally cool.
SPEAKER_00 (11:29):
Well, it would be cool, but it'd be also a little
concerning because it's like ifa robot's showing me a fake 3D
rendering walkthrough of ahouse, like what if there's
actually ghosts everywhere?
SPEAKER_01 (11:39):
That's what you that's what your brain went to.
What about the ghosts?
SPEAKER_00 (11:45):
That was the first thing I thought of.
I was I get the point.
I was trying to think of like alike a like a bad like proper.
I was like, what if there'scracks on the walls?
What about the ghosts?
You never know.
You never know.
You never know.
SPEAKER_01 (11:59):
I I see what you're saying though.
Like if there's any if it's likecould be falsified, right?
SPEAKER_00 (12:03):
It's like it's like showing you, it's like uh it's
like you're on Tinder and it'san AI person.
Yeah, you can catfish by a fakeproperty, but it's in digital.
SPEAKER_01 (12:12):
No, that makes that makes I could definitely see,
yeah.
I don't know what they mean bythat.
The immersive 3D tours.
And then also coming new soon ismore personalized AI tools.
SPEAKER_00 (12:20):
Real real vague, there.
SPEAKER_01 (12:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:22):
I mean, like here's the thing is that like Zillow is
already the app to find propertylistings.
It's like that's the one thatcomes to mind when most people
think about okay, I'm gonna lookfor an apartment for rent, I'm
gonna check Zillow, I'm lookingfor a house, I'm gonna have
Zillow.
Right.
It's like Zillow home alerts islike a commonly used term in my
age demographic.
What where can they go next?
(12:44):
You know what I mean?
It's like, okay, so obviouslyChat GPT integration was the
next thing to build out theZillow app, but it's like
there's only so many moreplaces, there's so many more
things you can do.
It's like it's like The Simpsonsmeme.
It's like, stop, stop, he'salready dead.
It's like that's Zilla with allother like listing sites,
basically.
It's like they've just kind oflike taken the cake and ran with
it.
SPEAKER_01 (13:03):
Well, I got some questions for you.
Okay, some discussion questions.
All right, I got a question.
What does this mean for realestate agents?
SPEAKER_00 (13:12):
It certainly makes their job a little less
important, at least on the frontend.
Like, I mean, obviously, youstill need an agent to meet you
at the place, show you theproperty, but theoretically,
this might open the door morefor mom and pop people to not
have to need that kind ofexperience.
Like, yeah, if you can integratewith if you can use Zillow to
list your home for sale and thenhave an AI basically like be the
(13:34):
the the concierge between themand you, and then they can like
organize a showing or organize awhatever, and then it's like you
might remove the need for a lotof those people, maybe.
SPEAKER_01 (13:47):
Hmm, yeah, that that that would be interesting
because I I didn't even thinkabout it in terms of like the
agent.
I was I was more thinking aboutthis as like a a more
streamlined filter, but yeah,yeah, I guess you're right.
If there's like agents who arehelping you find like the exact
house or property that you'relooking for, and then AI can
just do that part for you.
SPEAKER_00 (14:05):
Yeah.
If you can like you start aconversation on the Zillow app,
and it's like, hey, what's up?
I'm Zilly, the Zillow AI agentor whatever.
It's like I'm gonna be yourpersonal, personal real estate
agent.
What kind of home are youlooking for?
And then it's like I like thishome.
It's like, and then it's likedot dot dot dot dot dot.
It's like, all right, we'vecontacted the landlord, the the
owner of this property and askedif you they'd be willing to
(14:26):
schedule a tour and blah blahblah.
And then it's like basically youjust remove the real estate
agent's entire job.
SPEAKER_01 (14:32):
Yeah, but I feel like a lot of times when I've
toured properties, it has beenwith the agent.
SPEAKER_00 (14:36):
So if a mom and pop could just do it, why not?
Yeah, right.
No, that's a good idea.
If they're available too.
Right, right, right.
As you're probably savingbecause how much money do you
pay in a real estate like uhlike an agent?
It's a percentage, right?
Yeah, yeah.
You can just avoid that entirespend.
SPEAKER_01 (14:49):
No, that's that's an interesting thought.
I'd be interested to see howlike this all shakes out in the
next like couple years.
So the bottom line is Zillow'snew chat GPT app makes home
searching conversational.
It blends real data, AI, andsimplicity, letting your next
move literally start with achat.
So yeah, that's that's all I gotfor for this article.
(15:10):
Okay.
Pretty I mean, prettystraightforward, but it's I
think it's a noteworthy, youknow, step in in the AI
direction that humanity seems tobe going.
SPEAKER_00 (15:19):
As a famous, as the famous kip once said from
Napoleon Dynamite, I lovetechnology.
Is that a direct quote?
Yeah, it was, right?
Don't they say he sings that tohis his the his wife at the end
of the movie?
Oh, does he?
I love technology.
I've been chatting with babesall day online.
That's a good line to see.
No, I love talking about tech.
I think it's fun.
(15:39):
I think chat GPT and AI iscertainly the the buzzword of
the 2020s so far in terms oftech.
So curious to see where it goesin the second half of the
decade.
All right, Patrick, you readyfor the next article?
Yeah.
All right, well, I'm gonna readthis one, and uh it's
appropriate because there'snothing Gen Z likes more than
(16:01):
having a millennial talk abouttheir generation.
So perfect uh perfect logic forme.
Yeah.
So how Gen Z lifestyle shiftcould change the U.S.
housing market.
This comes from Newsweek fromOctober 5th, 2025.
Gen Z in the housing struggle.
Those born between 1997 and2012, they're trying to break
(16:22):
into the housing market, but theprogress is kind of stalling.
So about 26.1% of Gen Zers ownhomes in 2024, which was
basically a flat number from2023.
Among the oldest Gen Zers, just33% own homes, compared to about
40% of their parents at the sameexact age.
Uh so like kind of likecomparing and trusting the age
(16:43):
rates from the same time.
Rising prices, high mortgagerates, and tight supply are
making homeownership harder andless appealing.
Yeah, they're kind of startingto redefine what home means and
kind of how they get there aswell.
So I don't know, Patrick, ourresident, you would technically
fall into the Gen Z bracket.
SPEAKER_01 (16:59):
Uh yeah, very much so.
SPEAKER_00 (17:01):
Okay.
So I know we probably coveredthis on other episodes of the
Rentish before, but it makessense to kind of just do it here
since we're talking about thenews before we get into some
statistics and stuff.
Where are you with the homebuying process?
SPEAKER_01 (17:12):
Haven't started yet, and I'm not particularly
interested for the next I livein the city, in an apartment in
the city.
I don't want to buy a home untilI'm like moving out of the city.
Okay.
And then like I then I'll like II really do plan on buying a
home probably in the next threeor four years.
I do have friends who've boughthouses, and I think it this
seems to be more of like arenting versus buying thing.
(17:54):
But I think a big thing with GenZ is living at home, like after
college, or like saving, likebeing living with your parents
rent-free, saving up for ahouse, and then just buying a
house for people who want to gointo the home buying without
having to pay the high rents.
Like I have multiple friendswho've kind of taken that route.
Like living, like I have I havea buddy actually in Buffalo
who's been living at home, savedup, and then now just bought a
(18:16):
bought a house, but like justskipped the renting altogether.
But most people I know at thispoint are still renting and not
home buying.
SPEAKER_00 (18:25):
I think you're right.
I mean, I definitely think thatthat seems to be the pattern.
And I mean, that was somethingthat, like, not to get all
existential about millenniallife versus Gen Z life, but it's
like something that was likekind of like an idea that was
like pounded into your head whenyou're in high school for my age
range, like graduating highschool, going to college was
like you were flu fluing thecoop.
Fluing the coop, flying thecoop, whatever the whatever the
(18:46):
terminology flying the coop.
It's like you're you're leavingthe nest.
You you like when you turn acertain age, you graduate high
school, you go to college, thatis you leaving and going away.
That is you becoming an adult.
SPEAKER_01 (18:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:59):
So it was like for my generation, I feel like, and
for my age range, it was like weleft our parents' homes in high
school.
We went to college, we we livedin dorms, then we lived in
apartments, and then wegraduated college and it was on
to the real world with a big boyjob, quote unquote, where you
get a job, you get an apartment,you you maybe you have a
significant other, you live withthem, or you live with other
roommates, you save up, you geta house.
And the idea of kind of movingback in with your parents after
(19:22):
kind of like that next stage inlife of going from high school
to college was kind of lookeddown upon in my age range, which
is kind of, you know, now itseems so simple, right?
It's like hindsight being 2020,where it's like, sure, if I
would have had that opportunityto not pay rent and live at home
and it wasn't gonna be likefrowned upon, I would have
certainly done that because Iprobably would have been farther
(19:43):
along in my personal financesnow.
Yeah.
But at that time it seemed likesuch a anti-you don't do that.
Like you're a quote unquoteloser that if you move in with
your parents, like that makessense.
SPEAKER_01 (19:55):
I I feel like that stigma has gone away.
Like just speaking as a Gen Zperson, like that's not really a
stigma as much.
I personally don't did not wantto live back with my parents.
Like, and I I know a bunch ofother people who were in the
same boats.
It's like I like I don't care ifit's gonna cost more money.
I want to kind of be a littlebit independent, not have to
share a space.
Just like I genuinely like justwas ready to like kind of be on
(20:16):
my own after college, eventhough like you know, obviously
paying higher rent and whatnotthan paying free, you know,
rent, no, no rent with livingwith my parents.
I just kind of wanted to likeget the city experience and like
get my own apartment and ownspace.
But yeah, I mean, I I know a lotof people who are just like,
yeah, I'm I'm living at home.
And it's not kind of like a ooh,like, you know, why are you
living?
Like, I've got like a friendwho's like a software engineer,
(20:39):
like making a lot of money, likestill living at home, because
he's just like trying to buy abuy a house and doesn't really
is not particularly interestedin and that and I'm saying I
completely agree that stigma isgone because now as a
31-year-old dude, I hear thatand I'm like, genius.
SPEAKER_00 (20:54):
Yeah, I would so much rather not be paying rent.
I would be so much farther alongin my finances that I could
probably afford a much nicerhouse if I was looking to buy.
So maybe that you know that allkind of goes into this whole
thing with Gen Z kind of likebeing a little bit slower into
the game.
But yeah, so mortgage ratesrising above 6%, prices still
high.
Most Gen Zers are choosing torent instead of buy.
(21:15):
So the people that are movingout that are deciding to get
into real estate, they'rethey're the renter side, they're
not the buyer side.
Yeah, right.
In 2024, they made up about 47%of recent movers in the rental
market, which is the biggestshare of any generation.
Makes sense.
Finally getting to that agerange where it's surprising.
Yeah, uh, by 2030, Gen Z isexpected to become America's
(21:37):
largest renter group.
That also makes sense.
Also makes sense there.
Survey data got some numbers foryou.
More numbers.
74% of Gen Z say renting issmarter than buying right now.
SPEAKER_01 (21:48):
See, that's an interesting one.
That is fascinating.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:52):
I mean, maybe they're just more educated about
the cost of the market.
Like right now is, I mean, it'snever what we've learned from a
lot of our guests, it's never athe perfect time to enter the
real estate market.
But you have to imagine thatjust like everything else in
this world, everything's gonnacontinue to get more expensive.
Right.
So it's like there's no timelike the present.
It's fascinating that 74% ofpeople say that now is a bad
(22:14):
time when surely it's gonna benow is the cheapest it will ever
be because it's always gonna getmore expensive.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (22:19):
Yeah, and I'm I'm surprised by like 74% think it's
it's smarter versus I'm like,does that mean smarter for like
my financial situation rightnow, or just like smarter in
general?
You know what I mean?
Like if you're able to rent orbuy, maybe like because I think
a lot of Gen Z people are likerestricted into like just
renting.
Sure.
Right.
And like I if you're likerestricted into renting, are you
(22:40):
are you still gonna say it'ssmarter?
Because like at that point,like, yeah, I mean, if you can't
afford to buy, then likeobviously it's not smart to buy.
SPEAKER_00 (22:47):
I would be curious as to what there's a lot of
nuance there, so I don't I don'tknow that we don't have that
nuance in the percentages, but Igot a couple more for you.
59% view renting as a long-termchoice, not just a step toward
ownership.
And 83% say it gives them morefreedom to save for experiences,
not just assets.
I get that.
So all makes sense.
Flexibility is key.
Renting allows them to move forjobs or lifestyle changes, but
(23:10):
the catch is that nearly 59% ofGen Z renters are rent burdened,
spending too much of theirincome on housing.
SPEAKER_01 (23:16):
Yeah, so that's the interesting one.
Like, I I totally, totally agreewith the flexibility part.
It's like, yeah, I mean, if Idon't want to own a home right
now, I I like the flexibility ofI'm able to live in the city or
I'm able, I don't have to payfor maintenance and all this
stuff.
It's super nice.
At the same time, it it would benice for that to be like a
choice and not feel like like,oh, I I have to rent because I
can't afford to buy, and rent isso expensive that it's taking up
(23:39):
like over a third of myexpenses, or or like whatever
the case might be.
I feel like both of those thingsare different sorts of reasons.
SPEAKER_00 (23:47):
Um so um 50 uh the 50 what is it, 50 3020?
Isn't that the 50-six?
Well, that's like the 50-3020would be like, well, you
shouldn't spend more than what?
Is it 20?
Is it 20%?
So so 20%?
SPEAKER_01 (24:01):
Well, 50-30-20, 50 is needs, 30 is wants, 20 is
savings.
That's the oh, that's what I'mthinking of.
But then the the that's justlike a basic, like just rule of
thumb as one plan of budgeting.
The the general rule of thumbwith renting is is rent should
be no more than a third of youryearly income.
Yeah, of your income aftertaxes.
(24:21):
Okay, yeah.
And and like if it's over athird, I think, of your income
after taxes that you're payingtoward rent, then I think you're
considered rent burdened.
I think is how they calculatethat.
I could be wrong, but got it.
SPEAKER_00 (24:35):
Couple more things here.
Fewer homes, fewer families.
Experts say the affordabilitycrisis in is changing not just
housing, but actually familylife as well.
So starter homes are scarce.
In fact, that word doesn't existanymore, in my opinion.
It's like that terminology youmight as well just throw out the
window because there's no housethat is affordable.
Exactly.
This this starter home now is alike a like a one-bedroom,
(24:59):
one-bath condo for a hundredthousand.
Right.
Uh, starter homes are scarce,family-sized homes come with
steep premiums.
Since 2019, the median homeprice is up 36% and the price
per square foot up 51%.
That's insane.
Many older homeowners areholding on to big homes,
creating a housing log jam.
I've never heard that sentencebefore, that blocks younger
(25:20):
families from moving up.
So bit difficult there.
That that basically is pushingGen Z to delay marriage, kids,
and household formation, becauseif you don't have space to do
it, can't do it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:32):
It's interesting because like the kids in
household formation make sense.
I like I've been feeling likeGen Z's been getting married
earlier than millennials have.
SPEAKER_00 (25:39):
You mentioned that before.
SPEAKER_01 (25:40):
Yeah, and it really feels that way.
But I mean, everyone who's likemarried, that a lot of people I
know who are married as Gen Z,they're still renting and still
are not planning on having kidsanytime soon.
So I like maybe like thetraditional view of like what
you do, which is get married,buy a house, have kids, like in
that, you know, the all within ashort time frame.
Like, even for my friends whoare getting married, it's that's
(26:02):
not what's going on.
You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:04):
I mean, I I can't say you're the only Gen Z person
I know, so Oh really?
You're the only Gen Z person Ihang out with and talk to on a
regular basis.
SPEAKER_01 (26:14):
Oh thanks.
I guess so.
You're not married, so I guessyou know.
I just got uh I have somefriends who just got engaged and
they asked, they said that I'mon the shortlist to ordain their
wedding.
So that I'm super.
SPEAKER_00 (26:26):
That's an interesting thing to say.
I don't know.
You revealed the shortlist.
I mean, they're basically sayingbribe us so that you can be the
number one.
SPEAKER_01 (26:34):
No, they they pretty much they said I'm the short
list, and I was like so honored.
I'm like, I'd be so happy to doit.
And I said who else is on thelist, and they're like, it's
just me as of now.
SPEAKER_00 (26:41):
And I'm so I might so then it's not a short list.
Then you're you're their currentfront runner.
SPEAKER_01 (26:45):
Yes.
They they were calling it ashort list, which made me think
I had more competition than Idid.
SPEAKER_00 (26:49):
That's what I was thinking, is like, hey, we've
did we've narrowed it down tothree people that we want to
ordain the wedding.
So what are you gonna do to thedeal?
SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
That's what I thought it was at first, but my
odds are looking good.
SPEAKER_00 (27:00):
Can you imagine Patrick as an ordained?
SPEAKER_01 (27:02):
I'm so unbelievably excited.
SPEAKER_00 (27:05):
Uh we're gathered here today.
Uh when you get up to thepulpit, you go, what up?
All right.
Economists point out that owninga home often triggers family
formation, stability, space, andpredictability.
All these matter, and withoutthat, many young adults are
(27:27):
putting life plans on hold.
So, what's the trend going?
Trend towards smaller homes andco-ownership.
This is interesting here.
Developers are responding toaffordability pressures by
building smaller homes andflexible living spaces.
The average new home has shrunk10 square feet per year over the
last five years, andco-ownership is on the rise.
So 25% of Gen Z homeowners havebought houses with their
(27:50):
parents, helps shoulder thatburden.
Yeah.
And 22% bought with siblings,which was double of last year's
rate.
SPEAKER_01 (27:56):
Double is crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (27:57):
That's pretty crazy.
I would never own a home with mybrother.
Uh, if you're listening, Lucas,never.
Ever.
Ever, ever, ever.
That would not happen in avideo.
SPEAKER_01 (28:06):
Also, flexible living spaces is such like a
nice way to put smaller houses.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:12):
Well, it's like how every every negative real estate
term has to sound not negative.
That sounds like a politician.
It's a flexible real livingspace.
It just means it's a broomcloset.
You put a pillow up, you'll befine.
Builders are adding designs withseparate interests, more
bathrooms, and readyrental-ready layouts to support
roommates or shared ownership.
(28:33):
So a lot of these newdevelopments are just coming
along with this expectation thatpeople might be buying
properties in a shared capacity,which is fascinating.
Would you consider doing thiswith a friend or a family
member?
Like purchasing a house.
Purchasing a house with somebodyelse.
With somebody else.
That's not a partner.
A partner.
Because it does it doesn'tspecify it says 25% with
(28:55):
parents, 22% with siblings.
It doesn't give a specificity.
SPEAKER_01 (28:58):
I would do it, I would I would do it in a
heartbeat for like an investmentproperty, for like a rental
property, and just split, likesplit the you know, it's like
less less money in, like andmaybe less yields, but like it
kind of makes it more affordablefor everybody.
Sure.
Like I would go, I would go inwith one.
But like for a house that I'mliving in, like buying for
myself to live in, I I wouldlike to own that with my partner
(29:20):
and not not have like a familymember, like you know what I
mean?
Like, so that that that would bemy stipulation.
SPEAKER_00 (29:25):
Yeah, I got you.
That makes sense.
I I agree with you.
So is Gen Z redefining theAmerican dream or just adapting
to the economy?
Patrick, you're our resident GenZ expert.
So answer the question.
SPEAKER_01 (29:36):
Are we what's the question?
SPEAKER_00 (29:37):
Is Gen Z redefining the American dream or just
adapting to the economy?
SPEAKER_01 (29:42):
I think it's adapting.
I mean, I think to a certainextent, like I think renting
makes a lot of sense.
That maybe like, and I thinkthere's there's less of a like
you said, less of a stigma, likedon't do this because it's not
socially acceptable.
Like what you have to do isthis, this, and that.
And I don't think Gen Z likecares about that kind of stuff
as much.
So on the one hand, there issome redefining, but I also
(30:04):
think that with the current realestate market being like pro
like the tightest that it's everbeen, like, it doesn't mean like
we're like redefining everythingbecause like it's like we have
all these options and we're likechoosing to, you know, I think
it is very, very restrictive atthe same time.
So I think the two things arekind of happening at the you
know.
SPEAKER_00 (30:23):
I kind of I agree with that from an outside
perspective.
I do actually think that there'sa lot of kind of rewriting of
what like the American dream issuch a phrase that is so
nebulous now that like you knowthat I if you had asked me 20
years ago what is the Americandream, I would have said house,
2.5 kids and a white picketfence in the suburbs.
You graduate, you go live, andyou go have this property, and
(30:44):
you have a nine to five job andyou have a small family, and
that's what you do.
That's the that to me.
If you had asked me that 20years ago, that's the American
dream.
But now it's like so manypeople.
People want so many differentthings in this country, and it's
so stretched thin across allspectrums that I just think that
what the American dream is is nolonger definable.
(31:05):
So I think that like this ishelping change that for sure.
It's just funny, it's like 20years ago.
If you asked somebody that noone would have said, I'm gonna
live with my parents for fiveyears after I graduate college
and then buy a house.
SPEAKER_01 (31:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (31:17):
And I'm and I'm not gonna get married yet because I
can't financially supportchildren or like another person.
SPEAKER_01 (31:22):
It's like or according to this article, what
was it like 59% renting longterm, like renting forever.
SPEAKER_00 (31:28):
Exactly.
You know, like oh just rent.
Yeah.
Like someone moves some there issomeone today that is leaving
their house either with theirparents' house that is moving to
like Manhattan for a job.
And they're probably thinking tothemselves, like, I may very
well rent for my 20s and 30s andjust live in Manhattan.
It's like I don't think anyonewould have said that that was
the American, quote unquote, theAmerican dream 20, 30 years ago.
SPEAKER_01 (31:52):
No, it's like my mom, it's kind of unrelated, but
my mom, Jen Gen X, um she wassaying she she recently bought a
house and she really likes thehouse, but part of her is like,
like, I don't want to have todeal with all this maintenance
stuff, and the property taxesare outrageous now that she's
paying.
And she's like, part of me isjust like, let me just have all
of this money that I spent onthis house sitting in a bank
(32:12):
account and let the interest payfor just monthly rent.
She's like, that sounds reallynice to me.
And she's like, not necessarilyhaving regrets on doing that,
but is like that's a very viableoption for her at this point and
just like not having to dealwith all the taxes and all the
stress of maintenance andwhatnot.
SPEAKER_00 (32:28):
Well, the bottom line, Patrick, Gen Z's lifestyle
shift toward flexibility,renting, and shared living could
definitely reshape housingdemand for decades to come.
They're prioritizing freedom andexperiences over traditional
milestones.
But with more homes being built,affordability will not improve
no matter how creative the nextgeneration gets.
(32:49):
And that's another episode ofthe Rentish Podcast in the
books.
Patrick, did you learn somethingtoday?
I did.
Do you want to know what Ilearned?
No, if you learned something,that's really all I care about.
Well, I hope you all out therelearned and listened and had a
good time listening to us talkabout real estate, property
management, chat GPT,technology, and Gen Z people.
(33:11):
It's been a fun ride.
And check us out on your podcastplatform of choice.
Follow The Rentish Podeverywhere you can.
Socials at the Rentish Pod.
Email us with your questions ortopic suggestions to questions
at the rentish pod.com.
And then, you know, keep up withus online.
We're available there.
Hit the notification bell if youwant to be notified when new
episodes drop on your favoritepodcast service.
(33:32):
Give us a five-star rating or uhlike whatever your podcast
service offers.
Just do it to the maximumamount.
Thank you all for listening andhanging out with us.
Until next time, I've been Zach.
That's been Patrick, and we'llsee you guys next time.
The Rentich Podcast is recordedin Cincinnati, Ohio, hosted by
Patrick Giro and me, ZachRotello.
(33:55):
Produced by Mousse Gabermescoand Charlene Mulcindani.
Edited by Elliot Mongenis.
Theme song by me, Zach Rotello.
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