Alex Guarnaschelli on The Restaurant Guys LIVE!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:27):
Good evening and welcome to theNew Brunswick Performing Arts
Center.
A portion of the proceeds fromyour ticket purchase tonight
will benefit the PromiseCulinary Institute at Elijah's
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For those of you who don't know,the Promise Culinary School is a
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(00:47):
servicing individuals fromvarious social, economic and
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The New Brunswick PerformingArts Center doesn't just host

(01:07):
great events like this lectureseries.
Make sure you check out theirfull lineup of musical
performances, live theater,ballet, and lectures@nbpac.org.
Now, without further ado, pleasewelcome everyone's favorite
podcast hosts, mark Pascal andFrancis Shot.

(01:45):
Hello everybody and welcome.
You're here with the Restaurantguys.
I'm Mark Pascal.
He's Francis.
Shop.
Together, we own those tworestaurants right next door,
captain Lombardi and Stage Left.
We are here to bring you theinside track on food, wine, and
the finer things in life.
Hello, mark.
Hey Francis.
Hello everybody.
We are super thrilled to haveyou here.
Mark and I usually sit in alittle studio with Jennifer, our
producer and Mark's wife.

(02:06):
And we may talk to thousands,but we're really alone in a
room, so it's nice to have youall here.
Thanks for coming out tonight.
If you've never been in NewBrunswick before, it was great
to see the, the guest listbecause we saw that we have a
lot of folks who are regulars ofour restaurants and, uh,
listeners to our show.
And a bunch of folks from out oftown who came in to see, uh,
Alex Warn Shelley who's gonna beon stage in just a few minutes.

(02:28):
And, uh, welcome to NewBrunswick.
If you're new here, you'reautomatically irregular after
your first visit, so welcomeaboard.
So those of you who heard our,uh, theme song, we at live
shows, we're probably gonna bedoing a live show abroad.
subscribe to the restaurant guysand follow us, and you'll find
out about all our travels.
We're gonna do something inEurope at the end of this year
or next year.

(02:48):
We're gonna be down in NewOrleans and do a live show
sometime soon.
And we have a new show for youevery week.
And, uh, the most interestingcorrespondence I got from
somebody recently was they, welove our, our our theme song.
It's an original theme song.
Somebody pointed out that itsounds a lot like the opening of
Sanford and Son, which was, andnow I can't get that song outta

(03:09):
my head.
Well, what's what's amusingabout that is, so Catherine
Lombardi's husband, his fatherowned a junkyard.
Mm.
And he used to say all the time,your father was a junk man,
you're gonna be a junk man.
It's in our DNA It is.
So that's why we like it somuch.
Well, so I, I we're verycharming, but, uh, one of the,

(03:30):
the reasons you, you came thisevening was because we have an
extraordinary, this is awonderful series.
We have some great chefsvisiting New Brunswick in
person, and I know that's whyyou're here.
And Alice go, Shelly does notneed an introduction.
But I'm being paid to give herone, so I'm going to do it.
Um, she is a classically trainedchef who's cooked in Michelin
starred kitchens.
Of course, she runs her ownrestaurants butter, and that

(03:52):
just opened Clara in New YorkCity.
She's a bestselling author ofseveral books, including Italian
American Forever.
Of course you've seen her onChopped, battling it out on Iron
Chef and taking Challengers headon in Alex versus America.
She's one of America's mostbeloved chefs.
So please help me in welcomingIron Chef Alex Quai to New

(04:12):
Brunswick.
How are you?
I have my, uh, my knucklesandwich bag.
How are you?
This is so serious.
Front and center.
How are we?

(04:38):
I'm telling you, this is gonnago to my head.
Yeah.
Hi.
Are you all locals?
Yes.
I love it.
New Jersey in the house.
This is the best produce statein the United States.
I feel the garden state.
You are you.
100% correct.

(04:59):
I read that Progresso Soup whenthey came to America from Italy,
they found that the soil here inNew Jersey grew the vegetables
that tasted like they did inItaly.
What bigger compliment is that?
What else do we need besidespeople that drive?
I've never seen people drivelike this.
I do not drive.
When I'm in New Jersey, I'mliterally like, no, I'll take a

(05:20):
cab, 500 miles into New Jersey.
I am not driving you.
If you're not driving like 89miles an hour, they're like,
beep, beep, brights, flashing,yelling, rolling down windows.
I'm like, I, I was going 80 in a50, you know, like what
happened?
I'm on a school street going 69miles an hour.
I want to congratulate AlexWarner on really knowing this

(05:41):
state.
So thank you guys.
Oh my god.
New Jersey.
You got, you have been seen,got.
Yes.
Well, but if you're, if you're adriver in New Jersey, when you
go to other states, you, you canlike kill'em all.
It's fine.
They all get outta your way.
We, oh yeah.
I mean, I take a break bydriving in Manhattan.
That's a break from New Jersey.
People in New Jersey.
A drive like they're driving ina video game.
Yeah.
And b they're driving like theyhave a little laser on the front

(06:02):
of their car and they, Zackpeople away.
Just, I want to get away.
Well, well, we have a littlestory that Mark and I were
talking before the show beforewe met you, uh, earlier in, in
the green room we were talkingabout, we have a lot of great
chefs who've been on, we've doneover 500 shows in the podcast.
We've done a bunch in thetalking series now, but Mark and

(06:22):
I have been talking about you toour guests for a couple of
months now.
And so when, we told peopleabout Rocco, I'm gonna say nine
outta 10 people.
Rocco, I love Rocco.
He's great.
We talk about Scott and nine out10 people.
I love Scott.
Oh, he's so, he's great.
He's handsome.
Oh, he's, oh, he's, we did get alot of, he's so handsome.
He's so sick of that.
I will tell you, do not worry.
I offset that.

(06:44):
I will tell you the number ofpeople who snuggled up next to
Scott while they, when we weretaking pictures afterwards was,
I'm, I'm gonna throw up Prettyunreal.
I'm kidding.
I love Scott.
I do love Scott.
Okay.
What happened when we said AlexRNA Shelly, every single human
that we talked to said, oh myGod, I love Alex.
It's true.
Man, woman, child, everybody,every dogs and cats, carrot,

(07:09):
keets, and cockatoos.
No, but it was, everybody waslike, love her.
No, but it's, it is no joke.
It's the same.
And, you know, we're on the, themare Ds in the restaurant.
It's the, it's the same tilt ofthe head, the same facial
expression.
It's a.
Oh, I love her.
I know what it is.
May I, may I speak out of Turn?
You.
It's your turn.
People are like, you used to beso rude like the first few years

(07:30):
you're on Food Network.
You're so rude.
You were such a, and I'm like,yeah.
So I go on Chopped.
I'm just gonna like, describe toyou like, and you do with this
what you will.
I sit between Jefferies andCarrying and Scott Conan on
Chopped first episode.
Scott's like, dude, I gotta tellyou, this is so bad.
I don't know what to do.
This is so awful what you made.
And the chef, like, you can seebuildings crumbling in his eyes.

(07:53):
Like the guy's gonna, you knowwhat I'm saying?
Jeffrey picks up something, he'slike, what is this?
This is disgusting.
I can't even believe you madethis.
And they come to me and I'mlike, I think I could use a
little more salt.
They're like, you're so rude.
You're the rudest.
For years.
I was like, finally.
I was like, I give up.
So anything they said, I waslike, I disagree.

(08:13):
For like the whole year, all Idid, Scott would be like, it's
raining.
I'm like, I so, you know,eventually, you know, I think,
you know, I'm like a sort oflike, you know, like, yeah, I
like beets and horseradish.
You know, like if you eat itenough times, you're like, I, I
can see the charm in this.
I think I've worn people down.
you're very kind.
But I will tell you something.

(08:35):
Uhoh, I wouldn't fuck with you.
I won't.
If there was an iron podcastershow and you were the judge,
yeah, I don't know that I'd goon.
I don't know the market I want.
Is this your drink or mine?
So I see how the, how theevening goes.
That's all yours.
That's your drink kind of thing.
Um, mine is bourbon.
So that's, uh, okay.
I'm just having a glass of oliveoil.
Yeah.

(08:56):
So, Can I, can we start with a,a reading, you know, you have so
much on tv, but there's so muchmore to you than just TV and I
wanna talk about some of theother things as well.
And your, your new book I love,so, oh yeah.
So can we start?
The book is Forever Italian andwe have an Italian American
restaurant next door as well asa steakhouse next door.
the Italian restaurant is, isMark's grandmother's cuisine.
Um, that's why we let Francisread from the books,'cause all

(09:18):
the food comes from me.
Yeah, that's it.
That's it.
My Irish grandmother, maybe wewill name a bar after her one
day, but, uh, yeah, we're gonnamake that a pamphlet, not the
liver.
The liver and onions.
Hey, don't gang up on the IrishA leaflet.
So only I'm, it's like onesided.
You can see through it.
Double space.
You can read another cookbookthrough it.
Large font.

(09:39):
I've said this joke to audiencesbefore.
We have some different, thiscame up when I was talking to
Scott and uh, the joke of courseis that we own these two
restaurants together and.
Mark is three quarters Italianand a quarter French.
She had a French grandmother, anItalian grand or Both.
Who were great cooks?
I had two Irish grandmothers.
One of them didn't cook.
The other one shouldn't have.
Oh, all right.
So here, but here's from yourbook.

(10:00):
These are your words of wisdom.
I really do love this.
You, I think this book is achef's expression of classic red
sauce dishes that have alwaysbeen an integral part of New
York City culture.
Yeah.
And therefore my life growing uphere.
Yeah.
The book is an exploration of myheritage and strangely dishes.
I have rarely ever cooked in arestaurant.
These are the dishes we makeagain and again to perfect them.

(10:21):
They're the dishes we eat againand again because we crave them
endlessly.
Suffice it to say, this is abook from my heart, but it's
also likely already in yours.
I almost call this book theThings people Always Want to
eat.
I'm hoping that you'll agreeafter you cook your way through
it.
Yeah, I wrote that.
That's awesome.
That's awesome.

(10:41):
So why?
Why is Italian American food.
Basically become America'scomfort food again and again.
Same dishes.
First of all, how much greatItalian food is there in New
Jersey?

Alex (10:51):
Just as a testament to what we're talking about.
Okay.
Like seriously.
Oh, right.
So, uh, because we love it,period.
Basically we just wanna eattomatoes and five pounds of
royal cheese.
We s you know, people like, youknow, tomatoes are fruit.
I'm like, be quiet.
It's a vegetable.
I had a whole salad.
I had chicken parm.
That's how I think the Mac is.
Tomato is not a fruit, it's avegetable plus cheese, fried

(11:14):
chicken, olive oil, parmesano,ano, and garlic.
I had like basically a saladwith some chicken in it.
I feel there's no differencebetween that and a chicken
Caesar, as far as I'm concerned.

Francis (11:26):
Your mother was a cookbook author.
Cookbook editor.
Editor, yeah.
So you had great food in thehouse.
Were you embracing of that?

Alex (11:34):
Yeah, I've, I, I have so many chefs are like, oh my God.
I stood on a stool and I madegnocchi when I was two.
And it wasn't like that in myhouse at all.
My mother made stuff.
My dad came home and ate it.
And that was a whole thing.
And I was an only child.
Do you know what I'm saying?
My mother's name was MariaAlbano de Benedetto Garelli.
Okay.
My mom's like so glad to get ridof the maiden name.

(11:57):
I'm like, you went from DeBenedetto to Guana.
She, where's the math there?
Right, right.
I think she gained a coupleletters and my father, uh, you
know, if my dad didn't likesomething, we didn't eat it.
Anybody grew up like that?
Yes.
My dad was like, I don't likecapers.
Never saw'em.
Carrots, carrots.
I don't like chilies.
I don't like anchovies.
Never saw'em.
I, I saw a jalapeno.

(12:18):
I was like, what is this?
I was like, 40, you know whatI'm saying?
So I'm an only child.
Like there was no sibling tohide behind.
You know what I'm saying?
We didn't have any pets.
You know, I had a gerbil for acouple years, but you know how
that goes.
Came home for vacation and theperson who took care of him,
like kept him in the freezer andwas like, sorry.
So I'm just gonna say it was me,my mom, and my dad and my

(12:43):
parents.
We made a lot of Italian food.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, but my father cooked Chinesefood for a hobby, so there was a
wok on the stove.
So this is really weird.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, I'd come home and my dadwould be cooking all this
Cantonese food, and then thenext night my mom would make
marara or like a Pola, and mymom would sear these like
ginormous pork ups and just put'em right in the sauce.

(13:06):
You know, she had this big potof sauce, but it was only like a
half full.
And I was like, this is lame.
Why do you have this big pot?
And she would take thesegargantuan pork chops and
sauces.
This thing was like, it fed usfor three, we could put more
things in it.
Right.
And I would, like, my mom wouldknow,'cause at night, you know,
when it gets cold, the tomatosauce in the fridge with all the
stuff in it.
Mm-hmm.
If you pulled something out, itleft like a earth, like a

(13:28):
crater?
Yeah.
Trench.
Like you knew my trench momknew.
She's like, you ate two sausagesand half a pork chop.
I'm like, I did not.
That was a meatball that Ismeared around, so yes, but I
was a spectator to my parentscooking.
They wouldn't really let me cooka lot.

Mark (13:44):
I really frustrated my father as a young person
because, so he was born inFrance and half French and half
Italian, and he liked thingsthat really stunk.
And I really didn't like thingsas a young person that really
stunk.
I, and I, I, you know, my motherreminds me all the time that, so

(14:05):
when I went to preschool, thenuns pulled her aside.
They're like, he's gonna turninto a peanut butter and jelly
sandwich.
And I kind of did, but, but Ijust, at no experimentation till
I was 10, 12 years old.
Zero.
Experimentation.
You know, that's, I, I didn'twant any of that.
I remember my, a hamburgerputting cheese on.

(14:26):
It was a big deal for me.
I had a, I had to overcome thetrauma of putting cheese on a
hamburger.
But,

Francis (14:32):
and, and how Well you've done Mark, really good
job.
Good job.

Alex (14:36):
It's the whole dynamic here that I'm not touching.
I'm just a guest here.
I like being a fly on the wall.
Mom, dad, here we're, yeah.

Francis (14:48):
Our, our, our staff often says, I can't listen to
the radio show.
It's just like sitting in theoffice with the two of you
anyway.
Uh, the same thing.
That's a good thing.
So, so your mom was cookbookeditor and she's making all this
crazy, so your mom made the foodfor the cookbooks that she was
editing very often in the home?
Yes.
No.

Alex (15:04):
So my mom was actually like a Quincy Jones type
cookbook editor, Uhhuh.
So everybody wanted my mother toedit their cookbooks.
My mom has edited a lot ofbooks.
I bet you have at home, youknow.
She did the 1990 revision of thejoy of cooking.
My mom spent four years justrevising the joy of cooking,
which was really weird.
I mean, I'd come home, I wasworking at, uh, for Danielle

(15:25):
Ballou at Restaurant Danielle,and I would start my, I would go
to work at like four o'clock inthe morning'cause I couldn't get
all the stuff done.
So I would get to work at four30 in the morning to be ready to
serve lunch at noon.
You see the map there?
Yeah.

Francis (15:38):
Restaurant math.

Alex (15:38):
Yeah.
I was like,

Mark (15:39):
welcome to the life of a chef.
Yeah,

Alex (15:41):
yeah.
Um, but she was up at the diningroom table with this manuscript
this big and I'd be like, byemom.
And she would be like, does thislook like a blue point oyster,
this drawing?
You know, she wouldn't belooking at me or the drawing.
She was like looking off intothe horizon as if she had
microdosed for like five hours.
So this was like four years ofmy life.

(16:01):
I was just watching her.
Um, but she would cook her waythrough.
Her manuscripts and I think, soI would come home and there
would be these giant, she woulddraw a box around the whole
manuscript and then X throughthe whole thing.
And then write all the, rewrite,the whole thing in the margins,
like all around it.
I don't know how anybody likegot her edits translated'cause

(16:22):
it was like Sanskrit.
But the net result was all thesegreat cookbooks.
Some great cookbooks.
Yeah.
The Zuni Cafe.
She did all the Frugal Gourmetsbook.
Splendid table.
Right.
Splendid table.
Splendid table.

Francis (16:34):
That was Lynn Rosetta Casper's book that started the,
the a PM series, uh, AmericanPublic Media series.
I listened to that radio show.
It's in its 30th year.
Yeah.
And Lynn Rose, atta Casper leftin 18.
Mm-hmm.
But that cookbook is amazing.

Alex (16:49):
Yeah.
Lemme tell you, that was, thatwas a, that was a rough one.
Why was it rough?
A lot of polenta, you know whatI'm saying?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So did you get enlisted to help,you know, prepping and doing any
of this stuff or?
No.
My, I was a spectator to a lotof the cooking.
My mom did.
I don't know about all of you,but I love how people say like,
oh, I got to, to cook all thefood.
My mother was like, you watchpeel the potato.

(17:12):
So I would like peel the potato.
I didn't particularly want to,you know, like, I think people
feel like chefs, they got upwhen they were two and they were
like, baba chef.
Like you don't, I didn't know Iwanted to be a chef till I
finished college.
Right.
So I just was like cooking andthen I was, I cooked a lot in
college'cause I didn't wanna doany homework.
And so I would go to the storeand like buy a bunch of stuff.

(17:34):
You know those like metallicroaster pans you buy in the
supermarket?
Yeah.
That somehow are paper thin buthold like a 500 pound Turkey and
you're just afraid they're gonnatwist and buckle and
everything's gonna fall on thefloor.
I would make like a 40 poundlasagna in one of those, um, and
cook it like all day.
And then people would just comeover and we would have like 18

(17:54):
beers and two bites of lasagna.
It's a great night.
All about the food.

Mark (17:59):
Everybody knows lasagna's better the next day anyway, so.

Alex (18:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Francis (18:03):
but when you were a kid, did they make you peel the
potatoes?

Alex (18:05):
Oh yeah, I did a lot of stuff like that.

Francis (18:07):
See, but doesn't that speak to like, sometimes you
make your kids do stuff thatthey don't like now, but then
they become a famous chef.

Alex (18:12):
I don't know.
I'll get back to you.
Alright.
Um, my parents are both bigacademics, Uhhuh, they both got
PhDs at Yale.
And they met there.
So could you puke?
Honestly.
And they got married at, in thechapel at Yale.
And like, they were the big,like to-do couple.
My dad had a PhD in history.

(18:33):
My mom had a PhD in Russian.
Really?
I mean these, yeah, she wouldtalk to the cab drivers.
So only people, I was like, I'mnot gonna speak Russian right
now.
I'm six.
Um, but they were real academicsand I was just not.
I went to school and I was like,this skips a generation.
I see how this works.

Francis (18:54):
So, you went from not being particularly interested in
being a chef.
You weren't like, I'm destinedto be a chef when I'm six.
Oh.
Why did you tell us about howyou got into the kitchen and
then you, when you startsomething, you really start
something.
So give us, give us thebeginning of your professional
kitchen career.

Alex (19:07):
Oh, boy.
Um, I would just say that I madea list of all the things that I
could not do.
Mm-hmm.
And I was like, what's left?
Does any, did anybody do thismath?
No, I, one person was like you.
Someone was like, I feel bad forher, Jerry, I'm just gonna say
yes.
So she doesn't feel alone,whoever you are.
Thank you.
Um, so I made a list of thegenuinely, and like I know that

(19:30):
you think I'm trying to be cute,but I'm serious.
One, be cooperative for longperiods of time every day.
Two be on time, consistentlythree wear color coordinated
outfit.
It's never gonna happen.
Force it at a desk, like a deskto me.
But I was like, why do we haveto have a desk Like this is
giving me anxiety.
It's almost a desk.

(19:50):
So I was like, what doesn't havethose things?
Now, if the deadliest catch hadbeen on at that time, I would've
gone on a well boat and been agreen horn.
I would've gone, uh, in theearly seasons and you watch a
deadliest catch anybody.
Yeah.
So the same person's like, yeah.
Um, I would've gone, they'rewatching the food network.

(20:10):
They're not watching deadliestcats.
Same family of networks.
I'm not o off Offbrand rightnow.
And, um, I would've gone on theCornelia Marie,'cause that was
the coolest boat.
I loved Captain Phil Harris andhis two sons.
I was like, dude, you, youpeople need to like hang up the,
the substances and get with thecrabs.
Um, but in any event, I would'vedone that.

(20:32):
And, but that didn't exist, so Idecided I was gonna be a plumber
and electrician or a chef.
That was what I decided.

Francis (20:38):
So RAA was on the show.
We're talking about the samething.
He's like, I I applied for theplumbing program in high school.
I didn't get in, so I became achef.
What's it with?
Plumbers and chef Scott.
Scott.
You, I'm sorry.
There's Scott.
So, yeah.

Alex (20:48):
And isn't that great like that Scott?
Like he is, first of all, he'stoo handsome.
He's too handsome.

Francis (20:54):
I'm just imagining a truck's rolling all around New
Jersey, Guana and ConantPlumbing.
Eight years.

Alex (21:01):
I don't know about that.
Let's put it on.
I'd have to wear my shirt downhere.
I'd have to wear puca shells.
It would be a mess.

Mark (21:07):
So imagine, imagine Scott with no belt.

Alex (21:09):
Yeah, no, I love him so much.
So when we started Chopped,which was 17 years ago.
Yeah, I know.
My daughter's 17.
That's how I know.
Um.
Um, the first day I sat betweenScott and Jeffrey and I knew
Scott already for like fiveyears, but I didn't know
Jeffrey.
I, I love, I as much as I loveScott, as much as I love

(21:30):
Jeffrey, like I love them to, topieces, they're like family.
Like we'll go to an event with400 people and we'll see each
other all the way across theroom and it'll just be like you
have people that you just chintalk to.

Mark (21:44):
You Sure.
You're not from Jersey.
'cause everybody,

Alex (21:47):
yeah, it's the chin talk.
We might not even speak thewhole night, but we just shit
each other and we're like, theyget it.

Francis (21:54):
So let me ask you.
Yeah.
you are a chef and I do wanna goback to your origins'cause a lot
of people are like, oh, I wentto France for six months and I
learned how to about Europeancuisine and I came back and you
went for seven years.
Yeah.
And worked at Michelin starrestaurants.
But to talk about, to stick onwhat you're talking about right
here, one of the great thingsabout a restaurant.
Is the family that you get.

(22:14):
It's almost sounds like a clicheand a lot of corporations are
like, it's a cliche.
It's definitely a cliche.
Yeah.
But like big corporations, like,oh, the family people that work
here, you work in a restaurant,man, you're there till two in
the morning, you're there crazyhours.
And if you're there withsomebody for four or five years
or 15 or 20 or 25 years, youhave three kids.
You, you, it becomes a family.
And I'm just wondering, isthere, is there that sort of

(22:36):
comradery in the television chefworld?

Alex (22:38):
Oh yeah.
I think really that's why peoplewatch Chop so much.
'cause they picked like abouteight, eight of us.
Maybe it was like MarcusSamuelson, Amanda F.
Fry tag, Scott Kan, JeffreyZaria and Chris Santos, Monique
Chohan, me and Mark MurphyUhhuh.
That was like the original.
And so all the episodes weresome mixture of that.

(22:59):
Um, and we were just like, youwant us to talk, like we talk in
the restaurant?
You know, like, yeah, these,this, the feedback we would give
each other in the restaurant andI think it didn't bring the
restaurant.
To the show.
Mm-hmm.
But it brought that culture,right?
Yeah.
That, that pirate like just gotoff the black pearl.
Yeah.
Had my parakeet and my eye patchand I'm ready to tell you why
your spaghetti sucks.

(23:20):
And I think that reallyresonates with people because
you wanna know, right?
Yep.
And I think that, you know, ifI'm not wrong, like I feel like
the audience could feel that wewanted to tell the truth.
Mm-hmm.
And, and you know, and I think,which was hard to do, by the
way,

Mark (23:34):
one of the things they, the, that you do so well on the
shows that you judge, literally,that's you said, just said it.
Exactly.
That is what we do.
We sit around the table andwe're like, you know, this needs
more salt, this needs a littlemore egg yolk.
This needs more cheese.
I

Francis (23:48):
occasionally, this sucks.
So this way can't, we can't.
Yeah.
Or start over.
Right.
And we'll, we'll be that waywith each other and the chefs
will talk to us about.
You can't do services, where areyou gonna ruin our food?
Mm-hmm.
But that's, I I, I find thatkind of refreshing and it's nice
to see it on TV to be honestwith you.

Alex (24:02):
I think also when you're a chef and you're not a line cook
anymore, but you may be a chefyou're teaching people and
you're ordering food and you'rerunning the place, so you don't
really put down your clipboardand have that carefree moment
where you're learning or youlearn about yourself.
Right.
And then you cook your food andyou serve to a jury of your
peers, and you get that feedbackmm-hmm.
That you actually miss havingwhen you're running the
restaurant.
Right.
You too is wondering if thedishwasher is not quite drunk

(24:26):
enough that he can get throughit.
The grease trap is leaking, butwe can mop it up with the dirty
laundry that's in the bagdownstairs.
You don't have a day, you'rereally taking the,

Francis (24:37):
you're really taking the bloom off the rose there.
I gotta tell you, these peoplehave a very good impression of
what we, we look like in thefront of house.

Mark (24:43):
And I will tell you from experience, these people are not
afraid to tell me when I've doneit wrong.
Okay.
There at least half of you havetold me that I've done something
wrong.
In the, in the dining room.
It's,

Francis (24:53):
but you, you bring up a good point about pressure and
honesty and it's funny'cause oneof the things that we find when
people, a lot of young peoplecome and work for us.
We're in a college town.
People work for us when they're19.
Fortunately have people who haveworked for us for 20 and 18 and
15 years, but some people workfor us for a year or two.
And then they go on and theyoften find that whatever job
they've gone in, the other fieldthey've gone into is somewhat

(25:14):
frustrating.
'cause the feedback comes at theend of the month, at the end of
the quarter, there's, and therestaurant is like, we open at
four 30.
Those people are going to thetheater at eight o'clock.
They say they're, if you fail, Imean we fail to get people to
the theater two times in 33years.

Mark (25:30):
Not any of you though.
You all got here fine.

Francis (25:33):
And the reason we know that is'cause those two people
have never been back.
They hate us.
But honestly you, it felt likeour world collapsed.
Right?
It was like we, we failed atthat job.
But every day there's a deadlineand it works or it doesn't.
And you, that kind of alsobuilds the comradery.
And that's sort of what theshows.
You know, you are the finaljudgment.
Your pre-the seven 30 Andre'sbetter hit the table and they

(25:56):
better be good.

Alex (25:56):
Yeah.
I mean, but I don't know if weget a basket with like toilet
paper and gummy worms.
Yeah, that's true.
And that kind of, I think theadversity that the shows
inherently present is somethingthat the viewers, I think it
resonates with you, right?
I mean, I go into the localsupermarket and there's like
dragon fruit and fresh turmericand you know, Papino melons and
I'm like, I feel like this comesfrom the fact that we have so

(26:19):
much more of awareness ofingredients because of these
shows.
'cause they're watching it.
People are like, that's adurian.
You know?
And it's like, come on man.
Like, just, just relax.
Will you,

Francis (26:34):
do you think that America is more conversant with
food because of,'cause I thinkone of the things that's
happened, especially sinceCovid, is people are watching
YouTube, people are watchingcooking show video and the
amount of knowledge that peoplehave, even, you know, people who
are cooking at home.
They're gonna make a beefWellington, and they've seen the
pictures and they've done it,and it kind of pushes

(26:55):
restaurants a little bitforward.
What are your thoughts on how,how the media is affecting the
environment and especially youngcooks coming up?

Mark (27:04):
Uh oh.
What?
I've seen that look before.

Alex (27:07):
Oh, I don't know.

Francis (27:13):
Alright, well scrap that question.
Let's, I waited.

Alex (27:16):
I don't know.
I, I don't know if people wannawork that hard and I don't know
how many people wanna work thathard physically and grind every
day like that.
You said, I went to France forseven years.
I worked in a three starMichelin restaurant for six
years.
I was supposed to go for twodays.
I met Vo who was the chef.
He has a restaurant in theCaesar's Palace in Las Vegas,
and he has a restaurant inParis.

(27:37):
He's amazing.
Um, I was supposed to stay therethrough three days.
The third day he, he wasn'tthere the first two days.
Um, I had a plane ticket home,everything, and he walked in and
I, I don't know if you ever metsomeone, I, I just met him and
he looked me in the eye andthere was 26 men in the room and
me, and he walked in the roomand he was like, Hey.

(28:00):
And I was like, dad, he's, isthat you?

Mark (28:05):
I'm finally getting the approval.
I always cream.

Alex (28:07):
Is that you?
And he was like, daughter, now Ihave a dad.
I had a dad.
He has a daughter.
But something happened.
Yeah.
And I was like, you know what?
I'm gonna stay here.
It was not a, it was a roughenvironment.
I mean, whatever.
Yeah.
It was a rough environment.
The French restaurant in theYeah, they were, they were
really not the friendliest, thisis America.

(28:29):
I'll be polite, but let's justsay like, I, I, none of them
spoke English.
So let's start there.
And I took French in highschool, whatever.
But lemme tell you like, youknow, so.
One of the cooks spoke Englishsomewhat.
Right.
And he was like, I do not knowwhat is worse that you are
American or you are a woman.

(28:50):
And I was like, well, I guesswe'll do some math upstairs.

Mark (28:54):
And, and then when he got up, he said, I think I know.

Alex (28:58):
No, you're so funny.
No, not at all.
Um, you know, you can gohomicide or you can go like slow
burn bank heist.
And I like think I went to slowburn, like, that's great.
Gerard Butler and De Thievestype vibes.
Like, I'm gonna wait it out, I'mgonna get divorced, I'm gonna do
a bunch of like stupid stuff.
So I, this is really going wild.
Um, no, I just was like, Ireally wanna learn how to cook

(29:21):
and I'm not gonna leave hereuntil I have so much confidence
in my abilities that no one canmake me doubt what I know I can
do.
And that's how long it took me.

Francis (29:29):
Damn.
That's awesome.
Yeah.

Mark (29:33):
So.
I had the good fortune to spenda summer in France.
Okay.
I spent a summer during, duringcollege in France, not working
in restaurants.
being able to travel a littlebit, being able to absorb the
culture again, living with afamily that spoke, no English
whatsoever.
High school French.
And I learned more in thatsummer than my entire five years

(29:57):
of college.
yeah, I said five years.
Okay.

Alex (30:00):
You did say five.
I said five.
What happened?

Mark (30:02):
I, I got three majors, but I liked college, so I stayed
so's.
Why you stayed?
Stayed, stayed for a whileanyway.
I'm still here.
Okay.
I didn't, I'm still right.
Never left.
Um, I, I learned so much beingin Europe, being with Europeans,
living the lifestyle.
You spent seven years there.
You also lived in la you alsolived in New York.

(30:24):
Yeah.
What a, what a world view youhave.
I don't see young chefs.
Doing that anymore as much.
Yeah.
And I, and I think that do, doyou think it, do you think that
they need to do that?
No.
Or do you think the worldview ispermeated here completely?

Alex (30:42):
I think, I think you need to put on your phone and start
cutting stuff.
So I think that's a really bigpeople like, how do I get good
at prepping?
And I'm like, well, it's notwatching YouTube videos.
Buy 5,000 onions and call me.
You know what I mean?
So I think there's aphysicality, there's, there's,
there's no shortcut to the, tothe place.
Yeah.
For me, there was not also,like, I just followed good

(31:03):
produce, honestly.
Like all the places you name,where I live, I was just like
these, I, I remember being inParis and I'm walking to work
and, you know, like, let me getout the violin.
I had no money.
I made no money.
I would look at stuff.
I couldn't buy it.
Let's just say I lived on afriend's couch.
I didn't get paid for a longtime.
I ate the leftover cheese fromthe cheese tray that went out in

(31:24):
the dining room.
I ate the leftover cheese a lot.
I also kept a quart of cream inthe refrigerator and I would
just slug on it.
Really.
By the way, for those of you whodon't know, leftover cheese is
cheese.
Okay, so,

Francis (31:40):
so while you're doing all this in Paris Yeah, because
I have to say really back in theage when it used to be that chef
would go and travel and do thatand they'd stay six months
somewhere.
Yeah, maybe a year.
not speaking, French, no, Ispoke French, but it was not
speaking fluent, kind of crappykitchen French.
And you wrote, I call it TarzanFrench.
That's what I call it.
Yeah.
So you got in, but then you rosethrough the ranks.
You became a ranking chef.

(32:02):
Yeah.
In French kitchen.
Yeah.
As a woman and as an American.
How did, I mean, how did, Imean, in

Alex (32:06):
500 years you get the job, you know what I mean?
Stand there long enough to likeyou, everybody else quit.

Francis (32:12):
Well, yeah, don't get fired the longest, but No, it's
more than that.
Right?
You had to, he had to seesomething in you.
And what did you learn?
What did you learn when you werethere and what did you bring to
them that they didn't expect?

Alex (32:21):
I mean, they were like, can you make us do cookies?
We like to these people in therestaurant, by the way, they all
became my dearest frenzy.
Dudes like, I love it.
I was like a mascot.
Do you know what I mean?
They're like, pass around like acheese tray.
Not like that.
Settle down New Jersey.
Okay.
In New York.
They'd be like, who in NewJersey?
They're like, ho, ho, ho.

(32:43):
Set it out in the back becauseremember it's still cheese.
but it was like funny.
Like they'd be like, I, I had aboyfriend for a long time, uh,
who I love.
He was was one of, we were stillfriends.
A French boyfriend.
Yeah.
Oh, and the InternationalLanguage of love.
Yeah.
Well, I dunno about that, butthat's another podcast.
So he's lived in the middle ofnowhere in Normandy where they

(33:07):
don't make wine.
There's some region of France.
They don't make make any wine'cause they don't grow grapes.
And in those regions they're alittle like.
Pissed.
They're like, we know it's notburgundy, but we're trying.
But in Normandy they have cowsand apples.
Apples we have apples.
We have, so they make cider andthey make, you know, all sorts
of boozy, like caldo, calvadosand other stuff.

(33:29):
And then they, they makeunbelievable butter and cheese.
And my boyfriend's father was achar uta.
So shark UTA is someone whomakes charcuterie.
And, and the term is kind ofloose, but charcuterie
traditionally it means you onlymake pork, everything.
Sausages, feet, legs, ears,nose, tail.

(33:49):
The whole store is right.

Mark (33:51):
And the whole store would be just that.
Just four.
Like, and, and usually there'dbe a cheese place on one side of
it and a bread place on theother side of it.
And you didn't need to goanyplace else.
I was gonna say move there.
There you go.
One of those, one of those, oneof those.
I'll meet you on a park bench.

Alex (34:05):
Yeah.
So I went over to his family'shouse.
You would've thought I was amartian.
I walk in the room, there's likenine of them all sitting around
a table and there's like a seatat the head, like for me, like
the curiosity freak will sithere.
So I sit down and they're like,tell us in America everything's
frozen, right?
And I was like, what?
And they're like, everything youeat is frozen.

(34:27):
You eat nothing but frozen foodin America.
And I was like, this is thequestion.
Like this is the hill you peoplewanna die on.
We have popsicles.
I had two choices.
I could be like, oh my God, no.
It's just so amazing.
We love solid and juices andwe're just like learning about
turmeric.
And, or I could be like, I coulddouble down.
And I go, yes.

(34:49):
I said, sometimes I buy food,cook it, freeze it, defrost it,
and eat it.
And I, I, I truly said this'cause I was like, this is
crazy.
I may as well lean in.
And I said, sometimes I cook it.
Freeze it to frost it and eat itjust so it was frozen.
And they go say, so like all ofthem, the whole table, except my

(35:14):
boyfriend who was like, yay.
So I get up in the morning andthe dad's in the garage, like in
the blue overalls with the stumpof the cigar, and he's poaching
this giant like coiled upsausage.
I'm like, what is that?
And he's like, it's Bud Noir.
And I'm like, how do you makeit?
And he's like, you take pig'sblood and mix it with onions and

(35:35):
then you put it in the casingand you boil it.
he had a gleam in his eye and helooked all beaty.
I tell you.
I was like, I gotta get outtahere.
By the way, we ate like two, twomeals maybe.
Uh, then we went to his uncle'shouse.
And I got there and it was like,so sweet.
This little house and then likehaving Calvados in the yard and

(35:55):
whatever.
Mm-hmm.
And they're like, aren't thechickens cute?
And I'm like, they're so cute.
These chickens were so pretty.
And they're so, they're like,you know, they're like,
whatever.
What's up?
Or they were like, hoo.
So I'm like, this, thesechickens are so cute.
So we go and we sit down andwhenever we're eating dinner and
they bring out the chicken andI'm like, and they're like, we

(36:15):
killed the chicken that you saidwas so cute, like in honor of
you coming.
And I was like, okay.
Like do we have any CADs?
Don't, don't say anything aboutthe other guests.
'cause they might be on theplate next time.
Yeah.
But amazing culture, amazing,experience.
like all jokes to aside, Ilearned so much about
ingredients and food and cookingand ingredients in food in

(36:35):
France, it's sacred.
the restaurant was in Paris, butthese people would come in and
just put down like little pailsof things with like towels over
them.
And you would go and lift and itwould be these giant like
portini mushrooms and someoneelse would come and leave a
pale.
And it was these long whiteasparagus, I mean the nobility
of the ingredients.
That's why I stayed so long.

(36:56):
Yeah.
But I can never eat risottoagain.
And this is because I worked ahot app station for a long time
and there was the state, thewhole station was real.
The station was as big as thistable and I had two burners.
And people would be like, let meuse your burner.
I'm like, do not even make eyecontact with my burners.
And so all night I was likemaking risotto, but the risotto

(37:18):
changed all the time.
We had the portini on therisotto, we had the asparagus,
sweet breads, fiddlehead ferns,wild asparagus.
So this rotating plate of ricebecame this canvas for all
these, so I was cooking all thisamazing stuff.
and after like a year I waslike, look, can I work the fish?
Like all I wanted was to workthe fish station, and it was

(37:38):
right next to the hot apps allnight.
I'm watching the chef, you know,and I'm like stirring the rice.
Like, someone get me outta here.

Mark (37:45):
Did you haven't made risotto.
You can't do anything elseexcept for make risotto.
Right.

Alex (37:50):
You're doing that.
Doing that.
Yeah.
That's, that was so now, and sonow you've lost your taste for
risotto from the So I Too much.
Well, I finally got promoted tothe fish station.
I was so excited.
'cause he told me no, like threetimes.
He was like, no, I'm not goodenough.
I was like, okay.
Then I went back, I was like, Iwanna wait to the, this station.
He's like, no.
Okay.
So finally he moves me to thefish station and I'm so excited

(38:12):
and the other guy takes over andhe's making the risotto.
And I'm like, ha.
I swear to God, like nightthree, excuse my French beep
show.
Uh, the guy can't, a bunch ofrisottos overcooked.
They all came back like this bigtable and they all, the mare d
like brought the plates back andput'em down.
And it was like, someone isdying tonight.

(38:33):
Yeah.
Like right here, right now.
And Vos like, that's it.
I'm moving the risotto to thefish station.
Oh no.
So the risotto came with me.
Literally when I see a bag ofour Oreo rice in the
supermarket, it's, it goes.

Mark (38:53):
So do you drop a house on it then?

Alex (38:55):
I cannot even, people make risotto.
They're like, we made risotto.
I'm like, great.
When they do it on chopped, I'mlike, oh, okay.
That's when my risotto radar isshut off.
That's a respect it.

Francis (39:07):
Yeah.
I adore risotto, but I've onlymade it a thousand times in my
life.
Not a hundred thousand times inmy life.

Mark (39:13):
still, the greatest plate of risotto in my life was on a
flight from Milan to Verona.
I was like, you're on anairplane.
How did you make the bestrisotto of my life?
I believe, but it was a shrimprisotto.
Spectacular.
I, I have no idea how they didit, but they, they care more

(39:33):
than we do.

Alex (39:34):
It was me's the whole,

Francis (39:39):
so, I wanna talk about your book.
Yeah.
Because everyone should buy thebook and buy the book.
We're gonna support.
Alex, um, but one of the thingsthat I read in your book that I,
I did not know about before wasyou have the recipe for 1980s
date night angel hair pasta.
Oh yeah.
And first of all, it looksdelicious.
And secondly, it reminded me ofMarcella Hasan, who was a great

(40:03):
cookbook author.
If any of you have not hadMarcella Hasan's Italian
cooking, it's amazing book.
She's passed away.
And there's a documentary that'sjust come out about Marcella
Hasan, but she was famous forher engagement chicken, right?
So the engagement chicken, whenshe came up with this recipe,
she gave it to a someone who'sworking in the editorial office
with her to make for herboyfriend.
And it was basically just of awhole lemon in the middle of a

(40:24):
ch chicken and put some herbsaround it.
And she wound up her boyfriendwound up proposing to her.
So a bunch of other people askedher for the recipe and a bunch
of their boyfriends proposed toher.
So it became engagement chicken.
You've got date night, angelhair.
Is that just less of acommitment?
Is that what That's.

Alex (40:41):
Yeah, I'm not gonna do engagement chicken.
No, no.
I'm gonna, that's not gonna bein my cookbook.

Francis (40:48):
We could do like divorce, kaori marriage.

Alex (40:50):
No, no.
Could do a book.
No, I definitely think food is abig love language.
Yeah.
I really do.
I think a seduction dinner isawesome.

Francis (40:59):
Talk to us about seduction, dinners and this
station in particular.

Alex (41:02):
I, I think a big fan and I mean, you know, if we're talking
about dudes, you know what I'msaying?
You can hook a dude in with theright tuna out sandwich.

Mark (41:13):
I, I, I tell you, you can do the same thing with a woman
if you can cook and, and reelher in.

Alex (41:19):
Not my audience.
I'm going for the dudes.
But whatever you're penchant, soto speak.
I, I think it should besomething that you've made many
times before so that when youmake it, you are, um, able to
actually think about them.
And enjoy the person you'recooking it for.
You know, when you work inrestaurants, you don't ever know

(41:41):
who you're cooking for, rarely.
Mm-hmm.
And the anonymity of that makesit different than for a chef.
So when you're at home and youmake, like, when I make
something for my daughter, likethat's a different feeling.
Mm-hmm.
You're like, am I taking theminivan or the Ferrari?
Like there's different cars fordifferent moods and I think it's
the same, but I think aseduction dinner should be

(42:02):
something you've made that'slike, everybody can make like
five or six things.
Everybody, even if it's liketoast with like an egg on it,
there's like five or six things.
'cause everywhere I go, peopleare like, I can't cook like you.
And I'm like, okay.
And they're like, but I make amean tuna melt.
And I'm like, okay, get downwith your tuna melt.

(42:22):
They're like, I use Havarti.
Oh.
Or whatever it's, yeah.
And I'm like, you have alreadyyour way Right.
To wherever you wanna be.
Right.
So the date night seductiondinner should be one of those
things that is in your heartthat you make, like you can make
with your eyes closed.

(42:42):
So is this your, is this themain course of your date?
Night seduction dinner?
A hundred percent.
What else goes with it?
This is nothing else.
Whoa.
Hey, we can't be spending allnight eating.
It won't.
So you aren't messing around.
This is New Jersey.
I can say what I want.
Well, I, I, I just wanna,

Francis (43:00):
I just wanna interject.
If you're a guy and you don'tknow how to cook, uh, one ounce
to tin a caviar, a bottle ofchampagne, you're all set.
that's your seduction dinnerright there.

Mark (43:07):
Jennifer, I apologize for telling this story.
And I'm gonna, who's Jennifer?
Your wife?
My wife.
Alright.
Well, she's, she's already,yeah.
All in.
She's hooked.
She's hooked.
I'm gonna, but I'm gonna tell'emhow, I'm about to tell you how I
set the hook.
Okay.
So we were in college, I wasliving in the fraternity house.
I had good beer.
Everybody else had crappy beer.
Number one, first rule, secondrule.

(43:30):
I used to go to the store andbuy the cheese ends and the
salami ends, and I had Ritzcrackers.
And so I lured her with cheeseand salami and, and rich
crackers.
And it worked.

Francis (43:49):
I, I think that might not work today, mark.
I think it was, you know, whatdid you pay for your first house
as well?
You know, it a, it is adifferent animal.
What you, you said somethingelse that, that you've written
about in, in your book.
So it's kind of about the lovelanguage and how this works into
your life.
But you wrote, um, in the homecook recipes to know by heart.
You talk about you should have ahundred recipes by heart or

(44:10):
however many recipes that youhave in your repertoire.
And I thought, you know, Iremember I took a poetry class
and, and the professor said,listen.
If you, you can pass this pastwhatever, but if you really want
poetry part of your life, youhave to memorize a certain
number of poems or forget it.
You know, you having fun.
But it's the same with music.
Like you need to know a fewsongs without looking at the
sheet music.
If you wanna love music isn'tcooking the same is that, don't

(44:33):
you have to have five recipes?
Sorry.
He's scary.
He does that to me all the time.

Alex (44:40):
Yeah.
But I don't like, I think thoserecipes choose you.
Yeah.
I think they choose you.
Yeah.
People are always like, what'syour signature dish in your
restaurant?
I'm like, you tell me you're theone eating.
So, you know, butter's been myone restaurant, two restaurants
now, but one for 25 yearsbutter.
And they're like, tell us thesignature dishes.

(45:01):
And I'm like, the public's gonnatell me.
So our signature dishes are asmoked pork chop.
Uh, some these raspberry donutsthat we make and this ca topi
pasta with yellow tomato sauceand spicy lamb sausage.
I mean.
No, it's great.
But I'm saying, I don't think 20years ago I would've been like,
I'll tell you what, they'regonna be like a pork chop.
People like get the pork chop.

(45:22):
And I'm like, you know, Iwould've picked something more
like cutesy or whatever.
But I think the recipes and likethey pick you, part of it is
like an ingredient that youalways see that you love.
Something that your mom made oran ingredient your mom used or
didn't use.
Like in my case, if my daddidn't like it, we didn't eat
it.
So when I left home I was like,anchovies, capers, chilies.

(45:46):
Like these things are reallygood.
My dad didn't like peanutbutter, so my mother hid a jar,
you know what I'm saying?
Like my mom was from Sicily, butyou would've thought my dad was
from Sicily and my dad was fromNaples.
But like somehow, you know whatI'm saying?
So we had like a whole littlething of stuff we hid.
In the bunker

Francis (46:07):
We did too.
But there were chocolates thatmy parents did for me.
It

Alex (46:10):
right, right.
There was the fruitcake, right,that no one ate at Christmas.
That you were like in June.
Like you Right.

Mark (46:16):
I'm desperate, right?
Yeah.
You're just like, it's, it'sdesperate.
Every single sweet thing in thishouse has gone that the fruit
cake

Alex (46:21):
took a puff of my mom's weed.
And now where's that fruitcake?

Francis (46:25):
That is the only way to eat fruitcake, by the way.
It really is.
Yeah.
So it could be a door stop.
You're gonna eat it.
So you, you, you, um,'cause youmentioned anchovies and in your
books you mentioned anchovypaste and this, the nuance
things or the things that reallypop flavor into me.
That's the difference between a,you, you can't be a great cook
unless you know how to use, likeolive oil or anchovy paste or

(46:46):
the canned fish things that youput in a dish to like umami bomb
it or to like put a little heatin there and you don't even know
that it was a sardine paste thatwas in there, but you know that
it's better'cause it was there.
Yeah.
So talk to us about, so wellsardine paste is, that's a big
one of yours.
I didn't, yeah.
Anchovy paste.
An ancho paste.
Sorry.
Yeah.
Um, I use the canned sardines.
A tomato paste is another one,and that's in the date night.

(47:08):
Escort a tomato paste is like,really?
Change, change your whole life.
So why

Alex (47:14):
change an evening?
Um, what else?
Uh, Parmesan cheese.
I think soy sauce is a big one.
Mm-hmm.
I think a little dot of soysauce everywhere.
Like in your salad dressing.
little places, you know, whenyou make a sauce and you're
like, this is just missing thisthing a hundred percent.
Like either little ws shearlittle soy sauce and you're
done.

(47:34):
I'm a big Tabasco personsometimes because it's American.
A little vinegar of one sort oranother.
Oh, balsamic or something.
And you don't want to tastethat.
It's there.
Like if you, that's right.
If you know it was there, butit.
Just pops it and meat.
That's the date night stuff.
Oh, that's the Barry White.
And the massage oil starts withtomato paste and Worcester shear

(47:54):
sauce and soy sauce.
See where this goes.
You know, all of a sudden I agonna give it up.
You know that?
That's how, that's the bridge.
That's Take it to the bridge

Francis (48:03):
as a health announcement.
Never put the massage oil in thesauce.
That's not what she's saying.
That's totally different.
You can use the olive oil forthe other thing, but don't mix
the two.
Otherwise

Alex (48:12):
you're filled with tips.

Francis (48:16):
So olive oil, I gotta tell you.
So we opened in.

Mark (48:18):
Hopefully you're keeping them in different rooms.
Exactly.

Francis (48:21):
So the olive oil, I have to tell you a story about
that.
So we opened Italian Americanrestaurant 2005.
had already been a more than adecade with stage left, which
was considered one of the bestrestaurants in the state.
And we said, what if we turnedthat care and attention to
ingredients and so forth on theItalian American food that mark
up with, because CatherineLemars, his grandmother, So this
was eight years before Carboneopened up.

(48:43):
And so this was kind of aradical idea.
And you know, you have to chargea little more to do the best
stuff.
And the thing about ItalianAmerican food is, you know, it's
you know, the old expression,it's like pizza and sex, you
know?
Even if it's mediocre, it's,it's better than none, you know?
And it's pretty good.

Mark (48:56):
So, so realize that there was no such thing as free range
chicken when my grandmother wascooking that she, went to the,
the chicken guy and she got theslowest chicken, was the chicken
that they brought home, right?
That's, that's the chicken thatthey brought home.
So yeah, we were using freerange chicken and, better
ingredients, but there was noplace to put that on the menu

(49:19):
because of course it was a freerange chicken.
It was a chicken from thechicken coop.
It wasn't, some chicken that,was raised on a factory farm
and.
You know, tasted like sawdust.
So in, in doing CatherineLombardi, we, we tried to, to up
the level ingredients, frankly,just to the ingredients that she
would've used.
Yeah.

(49:39):
And, and that happened, and ithappened a lot here in Jersey.
And, and we've seen it a lotwhere, you know, the Cisco truck
rolls up and a bunch of cans,meat stuff, you know, all the
frozen stuff that the Frenchpeople think we're getting
eaten, we're coming out and fillup these restaurants.
It, it was, you know, just athought of, I want to eat the

(49:59):
food that I actually ate backthen, and we're gonna have to up
the ingredients in order to dothat.

Francis (50:04):
But the, there was a lot of explaining to do because
the names of those dishes yousaw on pizzerias and you were
like, well, you know, that'swhat.
But when we make it, well, youhave to charge more for it.
And thank you all because we'vebeen around for 20 years, so it
seems to have worked out.
Um, but the explaining to do is,like, in this book, it's people
like you who went out andexplained to people the

(50:25):
difference between good enoughand really good food.

Alex (50:29):
So I, I think we wanna cook that at home.
I think if we're gonna go andbuy all the ingredients, food is
expensive.
It's a lot of time and energy togo shop for all the ingredients.
You may as well go buy the goodstuff and eat the good stuff.
A hundred percent.
I get a lot of, I do aThanksgiving hotline on
Instagram for like a bunch ofdays before Thanksgiving every
year.
And the question I get was kindof became a joke.

(50:50):
Like it started seriously, butpeople were like, can I make my
mashed potatoes like five daysin advance and freeze them and
defrost'em?
This was all anybody wanted toknow, which I thought was so
peculiar.
So I thought I can double downon this and be like, freeze
everything.
Put the table and chairs in thefreezer, take them out two days
before, you know what I mean?

(51:11):
And people would be like, allright, when like, what, where?
Do you know what I'm saying?
Or people get into like thewhole B brining thing.
People get crazy.
I'm like, do you have room forthis?
Do you have room to brine this?
people are like, I bought a 75pound Turkey help.
That's what people write.
I'm like, what happened?
The Turkey was like, come onbabe, we're going home.
Like you bought this, youbrought it home.

(51:33):
You have a chest freezer withyour Omaha steaks.
You put it in there and nowwhere are we?

Mark (51:39):
You must, you're in Jersey, so every one of us, if
we are Italian.
Has an entirely second kitchenin our basement.
Totally.
Okay.
There's a stove down there,there's another fridge, there's
a freezer, there's a, you know,the, the, the dog, the first dog
we owned is their stuffed onside.
Okay.

Alex (51:57):
Grandmother was really into free range.
Sarah, I went.
Really?
They love that dog.

Mark (52:23):
I want to ask you a question that I, that I hear you
hardly ever talk about.
Okay.
Okay.
You ready?
I dunno.
So in 2015 Okay.
You did a one woman comedy show.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
So, at Caroline's.
At Caroline's, yeah.

(52:43):
So I, I got to spend a day,Brian Callen was a guest on our
show, he did a, a YouTube showthat we were, featured on.
And I spent a day with him andhe is famous comedian, and I
spent a day with him and.
Professional comedians arereally funny.
Okay.

(53:04):
And I used to think I was funnyand I realized I'm restaurant
funny.
Okay.
Professional comedians arecomedy funny and it's a whole
different thing.
Yeah.
And, and a buddy of mine, Ken'stells me all the time, oh, I
wanna be a professionalcomedian.
I'm like, Ken, you're electricalengineering.
Funny.

Alex (53:26):
What's the low, like, what's the least funny

Mark (53:29):
Below electrical engineering.
Not a lot of space.
Not a lot of space.
Yeah.
So tell us about your life as acomedian.

Alex (53:36):
Well, I thought I was funnier than restaurant funny.
And I was like, I'm gonna go outthere and this is gonna be
great.
So, but then I learned about theart of Comedy Uhhuh and the
craft is, and I thought, well, Icould just like do this.
But I realized like for, for aslong as I've been cooking,
people are like, I grilledswordfish on my patio.
For four people.
Last Saturday it was, and I'mgonna be a chef.

(53:57):
And I'm like, how'd we do thatmath?
Walk me through that.
14 ounces of swordfish.
That led to a whole career.
And I think I thought I could dothat.
Like I could go to a comedy cluband, and do it.
And I realized like, if youwanna be a professional
comedian, like you, you honeyour craft.
You, the hardest thing istiming, right?
Like, you obviously have timing.

(54:18):
Well, okay, maybe, but I mean,you go on stage and you say one
thing and I, I would write fiveminutes of material and memorize
it, and then I'd get on stageand it would be like 30 seconds.
'cause I would just say it all.
Mm-hmm.
Because that's how you talk,right?
Like in the restaurant or inlife, you're like, Ozzy, bozzi,
ba And then people are like, oh,it's so funny.
And then that's it.
But this was like, I, I mean,the first time I went on stage,

(54:40):
so like, you have five minutes.
I'm like five minutes.
That's it.
I was out there at 42 seconds.
Someone's like, are you the girlfrom Chopped?
I had banged through all myjokes.
I was like, well, hi.
You know, it was like, and Ilove Lucy where she eats all the
chocolates.
Like I did not.
It's Did you bomb?
I did.
Oh, oh, I did not know that.
I did not ask that questionbecause, no, not at Caroline's.

(55:02):
Okay.
The show I did, I practiced, Irehearsed, I got to know some
comedians and I asked them forhelp and they were like, you're
funny but you're not really notfunny restaurant funny.
Plus you gotta find somebody totell you you're not funny.
That's the first rule, you know?
And then just work your way backfrom there.

Mark (55:16):
People have been telling me that for years.

Francis (55:19):
Well, you know, it's funny'cause we've done five
five, between five and 600 showsof this sort.
there is nothing like watching acomedian die on.
Stage.
I mean, it's a terrifying Yeah.
it's brutal.
I can kudos to you for givingthat a, giving that a, a go
there.

Alex (55:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I love it.
I, I, I really enjoyed it, butit's not, it's not for me.
That's, it's too hard.
I'd rather burn myself in abasement with a bunch of people
I love and Overcook some chickenthat tastes like saw dust.
Sounds like a better night thanfour minutes on stage.
It's an eternity when you'rebombing.
Is it?
I went to a club called Bananastoo.

(55:54):
Okay.
That was, have you been to, hasanybody been?
Someone said, oh God, it's thesame person who, let me tell you
that was it for me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the woman gave me a checkfor a hundred bucks.
I spent like weeks doing theroutine and practicing whatever,
and she's like, you did great.
Just handed me a hundred dollarscheck.
Have you ever been paid ahundred dollars for something

(56:14):
you should have been paid$8million to.
I kept the check.

Francis (56:21):
I wanna end with this question because I read
something that you wrote about,what it is to eat Well.
And it reminded me of a wine inone of our favorite movies Big
Night

Alex (56:29):
I love that movie.

Francis (56:30):
We, we cook big night every year.
We've been doing it for 25years.

Mark (56:33):
So in August we cook the movie Big night.
We show it at the screening roomover at the ridge across the
street, a hundred of us walkback across the street and we do
the feast from Big Night.
We cook the exact feast.
It is one of my absolutefavorite nights of the year.
Every year we do it,

Francis (56:46):
and if you haven't seen the movie, you should watch it
at home.
Unless you plan on coming to ourdinner later the year, then you
can watch it with us.
for those of you who've seen it,I've seen it a million times.
And Tony Sha Lu's characterPrimo, who's a chef's a chef,
you know this.
and you'll remember this whenhe's in the kitchen, he's
talking to Pam and he says, um.
Uh, to eat well is to be closeto God.
I don't know exactly what thatmeans, but, but they say it.

(57:06):
and I think that that was asneaky line in the movie,
because I think to eat well isto be close to God was maybe
decentralized that movie.
And when I heard you talkingabout eating, well, what is it
to eat?
Well,

Alex (57:16):
it's funny.
Um, when I cut open the tomatolike an heirloom tomato in
September, that's so beautiful.
Or you just see an ingredientthat's so beautiful, I find, I
always say, tell me there's noGod when you see this.
And I find that just, I'vealways done that.
So for me, I think, I think thatthere's true godliness and
beautiful ingredients and innature, I think Mother Nature is

(57:38):
the bus.
You know, I, my daughter's like,you're filled with cliches.
she's 17.
She's like, mom, you're notgiving right now.
But um, then sometimes I'll dosomething and she'll be like,
mom, you ate, which I guess isreally good.
Like, not giving is bad, but youate is really good.
Or you cook.
And I'm like, of course Icooked.
And she's like, no, no, not likecooked food.

(57:59):
Mom, you cooked.
I'm like, okay.
But I think, it's in theingredients.
I really do.
I think the church ofingredients, I subscribe.
I, I believe in God when I seeingredients.
Like if I ever doubt or I everquestion, I've seen just mother
nature and father time.
That's all there is.
I love that.
That's beautiful.

(58:19):
And so yeah, those asparagus,those fiddle, he fe those
portini mushrooms.
Definitely.
Well, there's your takeaway fortonight, everybody.
So that was beautiful.
Thank you.
I'll clap to them.
we couldn't be more happy tohave welcomed.
Alex gonna Shelley to NewBrunswick for the first time.

(58:39):
You are an honorary NewBrunswick in.
And, uh, and the last thing I'llsay is, you know, do subscribe
to, restaurant guys, podcastrestaurant guys podcast.com.
Come see us at our restaurantsright next door.
Um, this show will be on in thepodcast rotation.

(59:00):
It'll come out in a couple ofweeks, and so you get to relive
this glorious evening one moretime.
and in a moment they're gonnastart to play either this theme
from Sanford and Sun, or ourtheme song and, and that's how
we'll conclude the show.
So thank you so much for joiningus tonight.
Thank you guys for being us.
Really great to have you.
Thank you.

(59:26):
It's, I know I wasn't.
You see some of you over there?

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