May 22, 2025 • 39 mins
This is a Vintage Selection from 2008
The Banter
The Guys discuss an issue that persists today, the rising price of food. Hear what little has changed since 2008.
The Conversation
The Restaurant Guys host food anthropologist Andrew Zimmern for a second time to hear about his travels and love of Bizarre Foods. Two of his favorites are pork roll and yak penis (no, we’re not kidding!).
The Inside Track
The Guys catch up with Andrew Zimmern and chat about his show’s meteoric rise.
“ Well, let's just, let's just call a spade a spade. The two of you are the most prescient, knowledgeable food industry insiders in a global sense. And the minute that you took the golden scepter and knocked me over the head with it, the show took off. So let's just be honest and share the credit where it's due,” Andrew Zimmern on The Restaurant Guys Podcast 2008
Bio
Andrew Zimmern is a chef, food writer, radio show host, author, and host of award-winning television series Bizarre Food franchise among others. He is a four-time James Beard Award winner for his television shows. He has received many Emmy nominations and won for The Zimmern List.
He is the author of several books for all ages about bizarre foods as well as an adventure book for middle school students.
Currently, Andrew is on The Outdoor Channel’s series, Field to Fire.
Info
Andrew’s Website
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mark (00:41):
Hello, mark.
Hey Francis.
How are you?
I'm well, yeah.
I want
Francis (00:45):
to talk today about rising food prices.
Mark (00:48):
Rising food prices.
That's, that's when the foodprices go up.
Francis (00:51):
That's when the food prices go up.
Mark (00:52):
That's what's going on now.
Francis (00:54):
Well, it's what's going on with most of the food now,
but it seems as though, um, the,the rising food prices are not.
Affecting as badly, and in somecases, not at all the kinds of
foods that we talk about, whichare, to be honest mm-hmm.
On the more expensive end, whichwere always
Mark (01:11):
on the more expensive end of the spectrum.
Francis (01:13):
There's an article in, uh, the Times recently, uh, Kim
Seaverson, who's been on ourshow, wrote a wonderful article.
It's called Good News.
About rising food prices.
That's right.
She says good news about risingfood prices.
And it's, it's an interestingparadigm.
She identifies, she writes,while grocery shoppers agonize
over paying 25% more for eggsand 17% more for milk.
(01:34):
Michael Pollen, the author anddef facto leader of the food
intellectuals, happily Dreams ofsmall, expensive bottles of
Coca-Cola.
along with some other critics ofthe American way of eating, he
likes the idea that some kindsof food will cost more.
And here's one reason why, asthe price of fossil fuels and
commodities like grain climb,nutritionally questionable high
(01:56):
profit ingredients like.
high fructose corn syrup, willrise as well.
As a result, cokes are likely toget smaller and cost more.
Uh, then the argument goes fewerpeople will drink them or
they'll drink less of them.
Now.
The idea behind this article,and she, it's, it's a very well
written and, and a large articlethat we can fully address here.
(02:18):
But is that the kind of foodsthat are highly processed, bad
for the environment, bad foryou, have a large carbon
footprint, are the ones that areartificially cheap?
that are seeing the prices rise.
Mark (02:29):
Let's talk about the main food that we're talking about.
The, the, the.
Biggest food commodity that isartificially deflated is corn.
Francis (02:38):
Well, it's subsidized by the government, the prices of
corn in America are artificiallylow'cause we pay out huge
subsidies.
Not to individual farmers, butthe huge agribusiness
corporations.
Um.
To make more corn than we needso that our big food processors
can get cheap ingredients.
What this does is it puts smallfarmers in Mexico and other,
(02:58):
like even corn farmers inMexico, puts them out of
business, drives them off theland.
They then migrate here in searchof work.
We then want to kick them out.
Um, uh.
Corn uses a lot of fossil fuels.
It's transported a greatdistance.
It uses, petroleum based,pesticides.
But, but we're
Mark (03:13):
producing more corn right now.
And the reason we're producingmore corn right now is, is
ethanol.
Now, I'm, Not a proponent ofethanol, though.
I though I love the idea ofstudying it and learning more
about it and learning how it'sused.
I think that corn is not a greatuse for ethanol because it, it's
so highly intensive inpetroleum.
We, it takes so much petroleumto make well, corn, it takes a
Francis (03:35):
lot of water and it takes a lot of pesticides.
Mm-hmm.
And most of the corn in Americais genetically modified.
Uh, but in any event, thisartificially cheap corn, which
is now.
You know, artificially cheap,
Mark (03:44):
high fructose corn syrup.
And
Francis (03:45):
what's funny is we're still subsidizing these farmers
mm-hmm.
Who are making huge profits nowbecause of the demand for corn
and have been making very goodprofits all along.
Your family farm, by the way, isgenerally not subsidized.
And what the people that aretalking about, about these
rising prices of these foodsthat are nutritionally
questionable, um, and not sogreat for the environment is.
(04:07):
Do we and, and meat falls inthere.
'cause meat.
corn fed beef is, is a big partof our diet.
The question is, yes, the priceof food is going up, but let's
face it, everybody we're fat.
Okay, well, and, and let's
Mark (04:20):
face it, everybody food has been artificially cheap.
Okay?
Well, some kinds of food.
Some kinds of food.
But if McNuggets cost the sameamount as real chicken.
Would that be a bad thing?
And I think that's the questionthat Kim is asking.
Would that be a bad thing?
And I, and obviously the answeris no.
If it costs the same to put highfructose corn syrup in your
(04:44):
Coca-Cola as it does to putsugar in your Coca-Cola, would
that be a bad thing?
Well, and my argument is no itwould not.
Francis (04:51):
And if, and if Coca-Cola is a little more
expensive.
Mm-hmm.
And so.
You know, there is not anincentive for, some fast food
chains.
Say, yeah, you get a, a 64ounce, 64
Mark (05:02):
ounces for, for 10 cents more than the 10 ounce,
Francis (05:05):
right?
And they say, well, wait asecond.
We have to charge for that.
Is it such a great thing thatthe, the kinds of food that are
not good for us and not good forour planet and not good for our
farmers are so cheap and I'm,I'm not sure that it is.
And it's, it's always, are yousure that it's not right?
Well, I'm, you're sure that it'snot, And the fact of the matter
is also, well, we eat too muchof that kind of food.
(05:27):
Mm-hmm.
And, and look, a lot of us areobese.
So if we had to cut down your 64ounce Coke to a 32 ounce Coke or
a 28 ounce Coke, or like we had25 years ago,
Mark (05:35):
an eight ounce Coke.
Eight ounce
Francis (05:36):
Cokes.
Mark (05:36):
Mm-hmm.
Francis (05:37):
And that was a normal serving.
Was that a horrible thing?
I, I think it's a very goodthing.
Now remember, in the, in thecurrent system, uh, organic
farmers are not subsidized.
Vegetable farmers are generallynot subsidized.
Mm-hmm.
People who grow outside themainstream of the beef industry
are generally not subsidized.
Um, so, and, and they're alsowhen people have grass fed beef
(05:58):
that doesn't eat corn, and it'sraised locally, so it doesn't
rely a lot on, transportationfuels and it's grown
organically, so it doesn't use alot of petroleum based
fertilizers and pesticides.
Well, the rising fuel pricesaren't affecting those people as
much.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and so maybe, if so, if yourcow's
Mark (06:16):
eating grass, grass doesn't really cost anymore
because ethanol's being producedgrass is grass and it grows out
in the backyard and the cows eatit.
Francis (06:24):
And, and if this brings the kinds of good foods that,
that we.
Always talk about into the realmof, of competitiveness for
pricing, you have to pay alittle more for them rather than
a lot more.
I don't think that's a bad thingfor society.
And it's funny because people,uh, criticize Alice Waters here
all the time.
People have criticized us forsaying, well, you know, you
(06:45):
propose a diet that only richpeople who go to Whole Foods can
eat.
Look, whole Foods makes it easy,and Whole Foods charges a price.
Um, but again, I, I, I positthat.
A lot of us could probably eatless than we do.
Mark (06:58):
Well, I'll also posit that if you're eating seasonally and
you're eating from your localmarkets, one of the, the.
Great, secrets, I guess it isstill today, is that at a lot of
these local food markets, youare getting or, or have
available to you organic foodsand good for you foods that are
coming from local producers thatare the same or cheaper than the
(07:20):
tomatoes that are coming fromGuatemala that are on your
standard supermarket shelf.
Francis (07:23):
Well, and you bring up a good point.
Look, the lo shopping at yourlocal's farmer's market can
often be as.
Inexpensive or less expensivethan shopping at your
supermarket and the prices arecertainly more comparable'cause
you're cutting out themiddleman.
You're buying right from thefarmer.
But, but I guess what I'm sayingis when you go into a hamburger
joint and you pay 79 cents for aburger, you know that there's no
(07:45):
way that someone could producethat without externalizing a lot
of those costs and.
You know that it's not good foryou and you know, maybe you
don't get to have two Big Macs.
Mark (07:55):
When Francis talks about externalizing those costs, those
costs are either in your waterthat's no longer, potable
because of the pesticides thathave floated into it, or, uh, or
someone else pays the cost.
Right.
Someone else, someone pays thecost in pollution or in worker,
or, right.
Exactly.
Or maybe it's just the factthat.
(08:17):
It's, it's really, really badfor you.
And there's a, there's asocietal cost to that as well.
Francis (08:22):
It's always, it's always hard to argue the
position that, see for me, Ihate Walmart, right?
So I think Walmart does a lot ofbad things.
Some people disagree with me.
I think that's fine.
I, I subscribe to walmartwatch.com.
Um.
Walmart does bring cheaperprices to the consumer, at least
initially and maybe overall.
But if that, and I'm not sayingthis happens necessarily'cause I
don't want them to sue me, uh,but if a Walmart in your town
(08:45):
brings you 10% cheaper prices onhardware and groceries and other
stuff, but the hardware storecloses and the pharmacy closes
and the florist closes and allthose people are outta work and
your downtown is aborted updowntown.
I, is your life really betterbecause your groceries are 10%
cheaper?
I mean is are they really?
You know what is, that's what Italk about.
(09:06):
Externalizing the cost.
The cost is shut.
Yeah.
Walmart, the cost of Walmart.
You have to factor in shuttingdown your downtown.
Mm-hmm.
Anyway, well, we'll be back injust a moment.
We're gonna be talking withAndrew Zimmer of Bizarre Foods
with Andrew Zimmer, one of thebest shows on the travel channel
Hey everybody.
Welcome back.
You're listening to theRestaurant Guys, mark and
Francis of Stage left in CaptainLombardi restaurants in downtown
(09:27):
New Brunswick.
And our guest today is AndrewZimmer and he is the associate
editor and dining columnist forthe Minneapolis St.
Paul Magazine.
Uh, but he is also a host of theTravel Channels Bizarre Foods,
with Andrew Zimmer.
You can find out more abouthim@andrewzimmer.com.
You link there through ourwebsite@restaurantguysradio.com.
Mark (09:46):
Andrew, welcome back to the show.
Francis (09:47):
Hey guys, it's nice.
Great to be here.
It is nice to have you back.
Lots of things have happenedsince we first had you on the
show.
You, you've, you've exploded.
Andrew (09:56):
Well, uh, you know, let's just, let's just call a
spade a spade.
The two of you are the mostprescient, knowledgeable food
industry insiders in a globalsense.
And the minute that you, uh, youknow, took golden scepter and
knocked me over the head withit, the show took off.
So let's just.
Let's just be honest and sharethe credit where it's due.
Francis (10:18):
Oh, that's gonna go on a clip for our, I'll tell you
that things,
Andrew (10:21):
things are, things have definitely changed since the
last time that we talked.
The show's become very, verypopular.
We've, the network, tripledtheir order.
We're already filming the thirdseason, even though we're still
shooting the second one.
And.
You know, it's, uh, you know,the, the, the big book deals
started happening, thesponsorship started happening
(10:44):
and it's, it's a littleoverwhelming, I have to say.
You sort of never, I.
Plan on being in this position,and then when it sort of
happens, you're just so gratefuland so humbled by it all as
you're having a nervousbreakdown.
I, I was gonna say while you're
Mark (10:57):
clobbered by the, by the enormous work of it all at the
same time.
Yeah.
Andrew (11:00):
It's, it's, uh, it's kind of insane.
My, someone in my office took acalendar the other day to try to
explain to me how bad thingswere, and I said, it's not that
bad.
And they showed me that in a 90day period.
Even though I was in the countryfor like four weeks during that
90 day period, I was only intown in my hometown for four
days.
Mark (11:19):
Wow.
Wow.
Andrew (11:22):
Excuse me,
Mark (11:22):
this is the life of the superstar, Andrew.
You're just gonna have to acceptit.
Andrew (11:25):
It's, yeah, it's, I don't know.
It's, it's, it's the stuff theydon't hear.
I mean, I now have a lot moresympathy for the, uh, you know,
drug old 20-year-old moviestarlets.
Uh, I understand.
You know, thank God I'm 16 and ahalf years sober.
Mark (11:39):
That's good.
No.
You know, and now you have nomore eating, uh, you know, filet
mignon in restaurants.
It's just not allowed anymore.
Andrew (11:45):
You know, something.
It's so crazy.
It's, it's funny that you saythat because I, you know, I'll
go out to dinner with my wifeand my son.
You know, the local burger placeand someone is trying to scoop
something outta the garbage andserve it to me and send it to
the table with a cute note.
And I'm just like, my God.
Stop already.
No, I need a
Speaker 5 (12:02):
hamburger.
Mark (12:03):
Well, we, honestly, Francis and I have the same
problem having a, a, you know,one of our restaurants is a very
high end restaurant, so I'll goto friend's house and they want
to make me a gourmet meal.
Yeah.
And I, and I'm like.
Meatloaf.
Okay.
Not
Andrew (12:16):
that I Exactly.
I want pot roast.
Mark (12:19):
That's the stuff.
Now
Francis (12:20):
I understand that, bizarre Foods with Andrew Zimmer
is, is it the most popular showon the, on the, the Travel
channel?
I.
Andrew (12:26):
Yeah.
You know, half the season lastyear, uh, we were trading one in
two spots with the Tony's show,which was all on the same night,
which was Monday night.
Um, that's Anthony
Mark (12:36):
Bourdain's show called No Reservations on the same number.
Andrew (12:39):
That's right.
And, uh, you know, half theseason his show was number one,
half the season.
Mine was number one.
And you look at things two ways.
You know, there's, there'sratings in terms of percentage
of household, and then there'sdemographic.
Um, so there the two separateratings criteria.
And, we did a, uh, a fabulous,fabulous job, uh, last season
(12:59):
for the network in terms ofboth, as did he.
Did he this year matter?
We did such a great job thatthey moved me onto my own night.
Um, then once that happened, hisshow I think is in hiatus in
between season four A and fourB.
I'm in the middle of season twoA.
Mm-hmm.
And I think the last five weeksthat my show has been on, we've
(13:22):
been the highest rated program.
Mark (13:24):
So last year you did 12, 14 shows, and this year you're
gonna be doing more.
Andrew (13:28):
Uh, about almost 40 if you include the specials.
Francis (13:31):
Wow.
Now, alright, so, what is thekey to the ratings?
Is it, is it the more bizarrefood you eat or the more bizarre
the food is that the ratings goup?
What is the key to the mosthighly rated shows?
I.
Andrew (13:41):
It really depends on what happens within the context
of each show.
I'll, I'll tell you a funnystory.
Uh, season number one, the mostwatched and talked about episode
I didn't, and the most watchedand talked about, seen in that
episode.
I didn't even eat anything.
It was when the witch doctorfrom Ecuador abused me, uh,
naked in his office, um, whichis why they decided to do a
(14:03):
pilot with me called BizarreWorlds, where I don't eat
anything.
but I'm just out getting abusedby which doctors in, in foreign
countries.
Um, I've argued successfully tohave some, some food thrown into
the mix there because I don'twant to, I don't want to take
away or dilute what I love todo.
So, on one hand, that's thebiggest ratings, Bonanza, which
(14:24):
is me, me being abused bysomeone sort, the fish.
The, the other giant ratingsbonanza is when you put
something so outrageous, sofantastical into it, that it
begins to.
Dictate to people that this issort of must see television, the
opening segment of our seasontwo A was the, uh, the penis
(14:46):
restaurant in Beijing and itexploded out of the screen at
people, no pun intended.
And you know, our head ofprogramming, Matt Butler, uh,
actually said to people in ameeting, very seriously, uh, you
know, penis equals ratings andwhich is one of the all time
great humorous.
You know, show meeting notes
Francis (15:05):
now.
That's a quote now so that ourlisteners, before our listeners
start calling up and lighting upthe switchboard here, we're
talking about a restaurant thatserves, uh, animal.
Penises as That's right.
Andrew (15:16):
40 different types.
And in luxury, I should tellyou, it's, it's about 300 bucks
a person.
And you're served on goldservice and everything is done
in private rooms.
And you know, the, the Chinese,more so than any other people
believe that you eat for health.
Um.
You eat foods that are supposedto cool you down when it's hot,
heat you up when it's cold.
(15:36):
Uh, you eat to maintain balance,and to maintain your qi and your
yin and yang.
We're
Francis (15:42):
we're gonna, we're, we're gonna be back after the
break and talk about, uh, AndrewZimmerman's Yin and Yang.
Uh, we'll back in just where myyin yang.
You're listening to therestaurant guys.
1450 WCTC is 1125, before thebreak we were talking about the,
the penis restaurant.
Can you, can you continue totell us about the penis
restaurant?
Andrew (15:58):
Sure.
It's, uh, Guang Ju is the, isone of the most famous
restaurants in Beijing, and, andit's got five or six private
rooms.
There's no public dining roomthere.
You make a reservation, whetheryou're two or 20, you're put
into a private room.
Mark (16:12):
Well, you know, because listen, if you're gonna eat
penis, you wanna be in a privateroom,
Andrew (16:16):
you need to be alone, especially given the size of
some of them.
And you, uh, you, you order, youknow, a series of prescription
of courses.
I started out with a, uh, asoup.
That was, uh, a, uh, turtle soupthat had a, sorry, a frog soup
that had a snake's penisgarnishing the top, and then all
the way at the back end of themeal, we had a fantastic hot
(16:38):
pot.
You know that there's, there's,you know, a turtle floating in
this giant tub of fantasticbroth and vegetables and there's
shrimp and other things inthere, and out comes a
three-tiered platter.
With seven different types ofpenis on it.
Um, and it, it was just, it wasabsolutely staggering.
I can tell you that the, thebraised, uh, yak penis in the
(17:02):
soup was much better than thestir fried spicy deer penis that
I had as the course in between.
I, I was not a big fan of deer
Francis (17:09):
penis.
Okay.
Now, I, I think that you, youmay be leaving some of our
listeners in Lurch when you talkabout some penises in relation
to how good they are in relationto other penises.
Yeah.
For those of us who've never hadit.
That at all for frame ofreference?
Um, uh, what is it?
Like, what's it, um, I mean, isit, would you do it again?
Is it, is it delicious?
Oh, absolutely.
Andrew (17:29):
Absolutely.
The donkey and yak penis isfantastic.
Um, because, and, and I hate to,I hate to use a cliche and I'm
not, I, I, I don't intend thisto be played for a yuck,
although it's very.
Funny.
Uh, but bigger is better.
the larger the, the member, soto speak, um, the, the longer
(17:49):
they cook it and the moretextures are involved.
And so it ends up being a muchmore tender and, uh, uh,
succulent eating experience.
Francis (17:58):
And there you have, they
Andrew (18:00):
have,
Francis (18:00):
go ahead.
Andrew (18:01):
You know, it's very cartilage.
It's, it's much like, uh, someof the parts of a pig's foot
would be with very little, youknow, meat and mostly cartilage.
you have to remember if any ofyou have, have, uh, pets at
home, those, those dog bulliesare sometimes the, actual
cartilage part of the penisthat.
is used as a pet food and that'soften what is cooked.
(18:22):
So a a something like a deerpenis or a seal penis is, is so
small in terms of thatcartilage, this part that can be
cooked, that you actually end upwith something that's very, very
tough.
Interesting.
Francis (18:34):
Alright, we'll be back after the news more with Andrew
Zimmerman of Andrew Zimmer's.
Bizarre Foods You may knowAndrew Zimmer from his, uh, blog
Chow, and again, which you canfind today, andrew zimmer.com.
He's also an associate editor inthe Dining columnist for
Minneapolis St.
Paul Magazine, but you probablyknow him through the Travel
Channel's Bizarre Foods withAndrew Zimmer.
Mark (18:54):
Andrew, in watching the show, one of the things that I
realize is most of the peoplewho you are talking to don't
necessarily think their bizarrefoods are all that bizarre.
Is
Andrew (19:06):
that true?
Uh, none of them do.
Uh, and as a matter of fact, Ithink that's the gift of the
show.
One of our intentions, we, we,we never set out to do shock
television.
What we wanted to do wasactually take people into other
cultures and explore the foodsof those cultures, and along the
way.
Learn a couple of things.
You know when if you try toexplain craft American cheese
(19:29):
singles to a Kalahari Bushman,they're gonna look at you like
you're crazy.
By the way.
I look at we're crazy.
Mark (19:33):
I look at people like they're crazy.
Okay.
Craft American singles arecrazy.
Andrew (19:36):
Yeah, I'm an East Coast guy.
You guys are on the east coast.
You know, when I moved out toMinnesota and everyone was
saying on Sundays in churchbasements, everybody here eats
Luta Fisk, which is, you know,dried cod soaked in lie.
Then rehydrated for seven daysso they can get the poisons out
of it.
And old white-haired grandmotherserve it to you with about a
quarter pound of melted butteron it.
I thought that's crazy.
(19:56):
It's the strangest thing I'veever heard.
Why you do that.
There's perfectly good fish tobe eaten all around you.
but more, more ludicrous iseaten in Minnesota than in
Norway, Sweden, and Denmarkcombined.
So, you know, you've got thesesort of pockets of enthusiasm
for foods all over the world,oftentimes right in your own
backyard.
it's quite amazing how, youknow, one man's weird, really is
(20:20):
another man's wonderful.
Where in the part of the worldwhere you guys are, you have a,
a thing that I'm addicted to,thanks to my wife called Taylor
Ham.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
Andrew (20:28):
And, and you know, if you start to explain that to
somebody, I've tried to explainit here to Minnesotans until
they eat it, they're just like,what is, that?
Sounds weird.
Francis (20:36):
Yeah.
It sounds, it's sort of likethe, the, the northeast version
of Scrapple, but much better.
Oh, so much better.
So much better.
on an English muffin with cheeseand an over easy egg.
So the egg yolk runs down yourleg when you eat the sandwich.
They pork, egg, and cheese.
There's, I mean that's Deal's.
A jersey Diner sandwich.
Andrew (20:52):
Exactly.
John Bon Jovi's favorite food.
Mark (20:55):
Oh, is it really?
It's, I did not information, Idid not know.
I have to say I did not.
Andrew (20:59):
I, I got a chance to chat with him about it once at
a, at a party.
You know, everyone wants to,when you're at a music party,
everyone wants to talk to thefood guy.
Francis (21:07):
Well, now, now you brought up a very, uh,
interesting point.
What was the name of the foodthat this, this, the lies soak,
salt, cod, that you talkedabout.
Okay.
You talk about it being morepopular in Minneapolis, uh, in
the Minneapolis area than it isin Scandinavia.
Correct.
And I I think that brings up,there's a, it further buttresses
your point about food beinginextricably linked to culture.
(21:30):
Yes.
In that, that's, that's anexample of immigrants.
Who are trying down thegenerations to hold on to what
makes them special.
And so that is a part of theirculture.
And I think, you know, I'm IrishAmerican and we do a lot of
crazy things that, you know,like mm-hmm.
You know, go to the St.
Patrick's Day parade in Dublin.
It's nine guys in a bagpipewalking down, you know, some
street go to the St.
(21:51):
Patrick's Day parade in NewYork.
Well, and then, you know, you,you've got the, the largest
impact day parade in the world.
And I think with food we do asimilar thing.
It's a way to identify ourselvesculturally.
Andrew (22:03):
Sometimes it's a positive, sometimes it's a
negative.
And the exploring the storiesthere is, is fascinating.
You, you're absolutely right.
I mean, if you go onto the UpperEast side of New York and you go
over into Yorkville, into someof the old neighborhoods,
there's still, there's moreHungarian and German
delicatessens there than youknow, anywhere else outside of
Germany.
Um, Germany, it's fascinatingand some of the best elements of
(22:24):
those cultures are preserved.
Go into Chinese restaurants
Speaker 5 (22:28):
in.
Andrew (22:28):
New York and order kung pow chicken, get on a plane with
your to-go order and go to ChangDo and order kung pow chicken
and eat them side by side.
And you can see sometimes howthese syncretic dishes as
they're transported around theworld change.
And in some cases, like the kungpow.
In talking to chefs in Chengdu,they are absolutely crazy upset
(22:50):
that the popularity of theunofficial kung style chicken is
gonna dilute kung chicken backhome as people return and are.
Eager to taste what they'veeaten in other countries and not
what originated in Chang do
Francis (23:03):
now you, is that what you mean when you say, you know,
sometimes it works for good andsometimes it works for bad.
Is that when you mean it worksfor bad when things get diluted?
How does, how can do bad?
Andrew (23:12):
That is, well, that is bad.
I think sometimes you're indanger of losing the dish
forever.
Food is a way to experiencehistory.
You know, we talked before onthis program the last time that
I was on about, there arecertain pathways.
You know, I'm not arguing forthe horse and buggy to come
back, although.
With the situation with oil inthis country, maybe that would
be a good thing.
But if sometimes if you lose away of cooking or a style of
(23:33):
cooking, it can be lost foreverbecause it's something that has
to be, it's like theater.
You can never see Marlon Brandoand streetcar name, desire
again,
Speaker 5 (23:41):
right
Andrew (23:42):
on stage.
And I think that as long as wehave ways to preserve The
traditions, you know, I'm on myway to Sicily.
I just was in a pre-productionmeeting, uh, for a Sicily show.
And you know, it's an island.
Thank God islands are the bestthing for food preservation, art
preservation, everything thereis so unique, uniquely unique,
even given how, localizedItalian food is.
(24:02):
I'm, you know.
Preaching your guys' language toyou, but it's, it's so localized
that sometimes modernism has away of destroying and trampling
on culture, bearing it under afoot of, of new rubble that
sometimes can't be unearthed.
Mark (24:16):
And also when you can't learn true cooking, you can't
really learn how to make a dishby just reading a recipe out of
a book.
Correct.
That it's taught from one personto the next person to the next
person.
And that's because it is a, anart, because there is a feel to
it that that's.
That's how it is.
'cause
Francis (24:32):
great cooking is not always from a recipe.
'cause ingredients aredifferent.
And you need to, you need tohave the, the cook's palate,
like a wine maker's palate.
You know, we, that's exactlyright.
We can follow the recipes formaking wine, like they made it,
you know, 500 years ago ormaking wine like they, they used
in ancient Greece or Rome, butwe're not really sure that's how
they did it.
Just like we're not sure that'show they pronounced Latin.
(24:53):
We can write it, but.
Can we speak it?
I don't know.
Andrew (24:55):
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
Francis (24:57):
You know, it's funny that you talk about an island,
an island being great places topreserve cuisine because, uh,
there are two things I I, when Ilook at the cuisines of the
world that, you know, we're sortof finding in sort of an
original state that is notcosmopolitan.
Mark (25:10):
For instance, the food of Long Island.
Francis (25:11):
Well, you know, that the, uh, the, that you bring up
a good point there because Ithink that islands and places
that have experienced, At leastsome time of poverty in the
modern era, I think are oftenrich places to have cuisine.
Because if places are wealthyenough and cosmopolitan enough,
they, they join the worldpalate.
Mm-hmm.
(25:31):
You know, and I think that inpoor places that they, they're
stuck in their own tradition'cause they didn't have a
choice.
But, you know, thank heaven.
Does that that make sense?
That that's
Andrew (25:39):
right.
That's right.
And, and remember, povertyequals cooking as well.
I mean, in ancient Rome, in thewealthier households, uh, when
you look at ancient recipebooks, they were eating roasted
whole animals and eating primaland center cuts of them.
It was in the, you know, it's inthe slums of Morocco, you know,
in, a thousand years ago thatthey're learning how to make.
(26:01):
You know, soup with just bonesand vegetable scraps.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
Sure.
Andrew (26:04):
And it's the same way in our, in, in our kitchens today.
You know, there are a lot ofgreat restaurants in this world
that I go into and people arelike, oh, isn't the food
fabulous?
This is some of the best cookingI've ever experienced.
It's like, this isn't cooking,this is assembling and good
purchasing.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (26:18):
You know, you know, cooking is different than buying
and assembling.
And so oftentimes, even when youlook at ancient cultures, if
they were able to affordimported foods, if they were
able, I mean, in, in the 15thcentury in England, if you had a
cinnamon stick in your house, itmeant you were a very rich,
wealthy man.
And that's why cinnamon sticksare in every ancient recipe for
(26:39):
roasted goose
Speaker 5 (26:40):
that you
Andrew (26:40):
ever find from.
You know, 15th century Englandall the way through 17th.
Um, it wasn't until much lateron that they started to look all
around them and say, oh, we canuse spices and nerves and things
that are grown here.
Uh, so it, it does work onseveral different levels.
I, I think your theory is, uh,is a solid.
Mark (26:57):
So many of your shows are, are focused on the parts of the
animals that, that we don't eatin this country.
Yep, yep.
Or we, we choose not to eat inthis country or, well,
Andrew (27:08):
we, we do.
We eat them in very fancyrestaurants now where the snout
to tail movement has gained atoehold, but the rest of the
world has been eating that wayfor thousands of years and never
stopped.
Well,
Mark (27:17):
even, even here, we were eating them for thousands of
years and then we stopped.
Francis (27:21):
That's right.
That's right.
Well, you know, but I thinkAndrew Point about.
Uh, you know, in the, in wealthyoutsides, it's cooking that
resides in, in, in largemeasure, in the poor areas, at
least historically.
Mm-hmm.
Because if you can, when, whenthe animal is slaughtered, if
you're the rich person and youcan afford to take the chops,
the loin, and go home.
Well, all you do is basicallyseason that, heat it up and
(27:42):
serve it with some mashes,right?
Yeah.
Yep.
But if you are the poor personand your mother is presented
with the intestines and thenose, the Capella, and you
better, you better have sometalent there to make that taste
good.
That's right.
You know,
Andrew (27:57):
that is Exactly, and that's why people are always
like, they say, oh, did youreally like that?
I'm like.
Really like it.
It was fantastic because whenthat chef took the, the, the
trotters and the liver and theheart and made a, a braise out
of it with the, you know, alittle bit of bacon and
vegetables and wine, it wastranscendent.
Mm.
The guy that took the lamb chopsand threw'em on the grill is he
(28:18):
didn't have much of a job.
Francis (28:19):
Yeah, but, but I'd still like to go over his house
if he invited me.
I still like lamb chops.
Sorry.
Andrew (28:24):
You're, you're, you know, you're, you're right.
And I, and I know that, I knowthe point you're making.
I mean, because you can extendthat argument if you don't, if
you don't eat ole in thewintertime, you can't appreciate
a perfect tomato in the middleof summer.
Francis (28:35):
Absolutely.
And it,
Andrew (28:36):
it's why, it's why eating with the seasons.
Is important to everyone and Imake the ar same argument.
We should be eating all, youknow, if you enlarge your diet,
uh, and start, not only will youfind new things that you like,
but you're also going to be ableto appreciate, uh, a lot of
different foods, and not.
Not remain a kind of jaded eaterthat expects, uh, you know,
(28:57):
chops and, uh, and sliced tomatosalads 24 7 365.
Francis (29:02):
now, we've been talking about, the, the, the effective
wealth on, uh mm-hmm.
And class on, on food and foodculture.
we've been talking aboutdifferent food cultures valuing
different parts of, of ananimal, because let's face it,
yeah, vegetables are exciting,but animals are really exciting.
Yeah.
Um, are there any parts ofanimals that are sort of
universally, taboo or is, is thewhole animal eaten?
(29:28):
Somewhere
Andrew (29:29):
the whole animal is eaten somewhere.
I mean, even, I mean, you know,people always say, well, you
know, the bile from, you know,different organs isn't eaten.
It's like, oh, contraire.
I mean, I just, I just had it inSamoa and Hawaii with some
tribal people that use it toseason the soup.
Francis (29:44):
Oh, okay.
You got, you gotta share withme.
How does that work exactly?
Andrew (29:46):
Uh, they actually stir the bile in and during the last
couple minutes of cooking, andthey actually, they, they love
that sour off.
Flavor.
Huh?
Mark (29:57):
Do you, do you think that the American palate is bland
compared to the rest of theworld?
Oh, absolutely.
That we look for, for bland ortype foods than the rest of the
world.
Andrew (30:07):
It, it's not that we look for bland or it's, it's
just that there's, we've lost,we're only a couple hundred
years old and you know, as youaccurately put, there was a time
in this country where we ateeverything, but we've lost such
a connect.
We.
In this country, we putconvenience and luxury so far
(30:27):
high up on our cultural totemthat we lose perspective on the
possibilities of what to do.
Mm-hmm.
With the rest of our.
Our food life.
I mean, it's not, I mean, it's,it's almost a self-fulfilling
process prophecy that we'reneutering it when you, I mean,
it's the two things that killgreat food, sp speed and
convenience.
(30:48):
It doesn't mean that there'snot, you know, good eating that
could be had by something that'sfast.
Um, it's just that those are twouniversal killers.
And I, I think it's, I thinkit's damaged us to a great
degree.
You know, we also are obsessedwith.
The new here, uh, you know, inItaly, I've got Italy on the
brain'cause I'm, I'm going therein a week.
you know, in Italy they, theyworship the new, I mean,
(31:10):
there's, there's more NovaCucina and progressive cooking
going on in Italy than justabout anywhere else in the
world.
But those, those chefs who aredoing even, uh, the Italians
that are getting into moleculargastronomy, uh, and, you know,
putting.
Spaghetti bolognas into a, intoa jelly bean are still not
playing around with, you know,lobster or more cane.
I mean, they're still puttingspaghetti bolognas into a, into
(31:33):
a jelly bean.
They're still cooking their foodfrom their region right from
their season.
Mark (31:38):
But the re but the reverent of a tradition and
reverend of that's.
Andrew (31:41):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
In this country, and I, and I, Imean, you guys are, are
restaurant people and you know,so you know it as well as anyone
else.
I can't tell you how many youngpeople I meet with who come
outta cooking school.
They did a stage and a fancyrestaurant and they think they
can become a chef and the firstthing they want to do is they
wanna start experimenting.
Speaker 5 (31:59):
Mm-hmm.
The
Andrew (31:59):
other night I was, I was.
Listen, I was watching Top Chef,one of my favorite shows, and
Tom Collicchio said somethingthat I wish they had just frozen
the tape and then replayed itagain.
He said, if you wanna cook in acontemporary modern style, you
have to know the classics.
Francis (32:13):
Yeah.
Andrew (32:14):
And it's really true.
I mean, the French impressionistpainters, uh, who were the first
to kind of break out of thehistorical life painting mode
were the greatest draftsmen inthe world.
They, they were like folkrealists.
They had such great skill'causethey learned it as they had
called a boar.
But it wasn't until you coulddraw the.
The, the human hand in perfectform that you could begin to
experiment with theirimpressions of the human form.
(32:37):
And it's the same thing withfood.
We, we don't know ourselves,we've lost, everyone wants what
they want and they want it.
Now, it's the king Babysyndrome.
And young chefs are toodesperate to become a superstar
today as opposed to learning a.
You know, the skillset that willallow them to create a career
where they have the opportunityto be a superstar later on.
Mark (32:57):
We, we've actually talked about that with Tom and some
other great chef, a guy in inChicago by Iran Atkins.
Sure.
And, and that's exactly what wetalked about, that you need to
know the traditions and the, thebasics and the building blocks,
because those are the buildingblocks from which you can
experiment if you don't That'sright.
If you don't have those basics,you're
Francis (33:17):
just a kid playing around the kitchen.
You're
Mark (33:18):
just a kid playing around with this, with this chemistry
set.
Andrew (33:21):
Right.
Thomas Keller, who I worked forfor two years, told me, he said,
there is a right way and a wrongway to cook everything.
And what he meant was he didn'tsay there's the only way.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
Mm-hmm.
His
Andrew (33:29):
point was, once you know how to roast a chicken, you can
then roast it a milliondifferent ways, but you gotta
learn how to roast it first.
I've, I've experienced thatwith, I.
With coconut grubs, you know,they don't know how to cook'em
in the Philippines, even thoughit's a part of their diet, but
they sure do know how to cook'emin Ecuador, where they grill'em.
I mean, there's a right way anda wrong way to clean'em and
prepare'em.
And it doesn't matter whetheryou're dining in a jungle,
(33:50):
sitting on an earth and flooreating grubs, or whether you're
in a French, uh, Parisian templeof gastronomy.
Uh, you know, good cooking isstill good cooking at the end of
the day.
It's gotta taste.
Right.
Mark (34:00):
Well, well, it matters a little.
Francis (34:03):
Well, Andrew, I tell you every time we talk to you
for an hour, it feels like I,you know, I, I've left three
hours untalked, so I hope you'llcome back and join us again.
I.
Andrew (34:11):
Anytime you guys wanna have me on, let's, let's set it
up because I love, uh, it worksboth ways.
I love it myself,
Francis (34:17):
super.
Andrew Zimmer, and you have tocheck out his show on the Travel
channel Bazaar Foods with AndrewZimmer.
Also go to andrew zimmer.com.
You can link there throughrestaurant guys radio.com.
We'll be back in just a moment.
(34:52):
Hey everybody.
Welcome back.
It's Mark and Francis, therestaurant guys, and, uh, Andrew
Zimmer just won't hang up thephone.
Actually, I, I'm like a bad
Andrew (34:59):
cold.
I refuse to go away.
Are you guys ever gonna come toMinnesota?
Mark (35:03):
You, you know, I have some friends that I just spent the
weekend with who are, who here?
Here back east, who live inMinnesota and they have invited
me out there to do some icefishing in Minnesota.
Andrew (35:13):
Do not say yes.
It's a kiss of death.
Well, it's boring.
Here's the thing.
Well, no, no, it's not that it'sboring.
It's just that Minnesotans loveto mess around with folks like
you.
And so they say, yeah, come outfor some ice fishing, and they
drag.
I mean, I, I really shouldn'tsay that.
Winter is gorgeous up here.
We go up to my in-laws lakehome.
We snowmobile, we ice fish, wego out hunting.
It's, it's it, you go wolfwatching, it's fantastic, but.
(35:37):
May through November.
Minnesota is America's paradise,and it's the best kept secret in
the country when it, I mean, youcome out here, I mean, it's not
called Land of a thousand Lakesfor nothing.
You can't, you can't get outinto the Adirondacks unless you
know someone who's got a greathouse up here.
The whole state looks like that,and it's just paradise.
Mark (35:56):
Wow.
Well, I'll tell you my, myfriends do have a bit of a droll
sense of humor, so, so I couldsee them basically leaving me
out in the middle of a river tofinish my,
Andrew (36:04):
well, even if you.
Even if you come in winter, you,we'll, we'll go to my in-laws
house.
We'll get on the snowmobiles.
We'll go eat a good meal.
We'll, we cook food in thefireplace.
It's a lot of fun.
Francis (36:12):
Alright, so if you hear us, uh, running repeats one
week, you'll know we're inMinnesota.
We're in Minnesota.
Snowmobile
Mark (36:18):
and not ice fishing.
Andrew (36:19):
Exactly.
Uh, exactly.
Francis (36:21):
Well, Andrew, it's, it's been a blast.
Uh, if I come out, it will notbe ice fishing, that's for sure.
Thanks, sir.
Please
Andrew (36:26):
come out for the Minnesota State Fair.
That's an eating orgy, the likesof which you never Well, that
sounds like a blast.
Mark (36:31):
I'm a huge fan of eating orgy.
Andrew (36:33):
Well listen.
Oh, we love that.
Francis (36:34):
Andrew.
If you don't hang up this time,you're gonna have to come on the
next show after the news andthat show's not even about food.
Andrew (36:41):
See you guys later.
Alright, bye-bye.
Francis (36:43):
Andrew Zimmer.
You can check himout@andrewzimmerman.com.
I tell.
I did go ice fishing with my dadwhen I was a kid.
I used to.
Fish with my dad, hunt with mydad and go ice fishing with my
dad.
Yeah.
On Lake of Pcon in Northern NewJersey.
Uh, the most boring thing I everdid in my life.
And cold and cold at that.
And we put the little thing inthe ice and we drilled out the
hated my life.
We did that.
Hunting Awesome.
(37:03):
Ice fishing.
No, I, I, I agree with Andra onthat one.
All right.
Well, I hope you've enjoyed yourhour with the restaurant guys.
Uh, I, sir.
I know we certainly have.
I'm Francis Shot.
And I'm Mark Pascal.
We are the restaurant guys.
1450 WCTC.
The time is 12 noon.
Hello, mark.
Hey Francis.
How are you?
I'm well, yeah.
I want
Francis (00:45):
to talk today about rising food prices.
Mark (00:48):
Rising food prices.
That's, that's when the foodprices go up.
Francis (00:51):
That's when the food prices go up.
Mark (00:52):
That's what's going on now.
Francis (00:54):
Well, it's what's going on with most of the food now,
but it seems as though, um, the,the rising food prices are not.
Affecting as badly, and in somecases, not at all the kinds of
foods that we talk about, whichare, to be honest mm-hmm.
On the more expensive end, whichwere always
Mark (01:11):
on the more expensive end of the spectrum.
Francis (01:13):
There's an article in, uh, the Times recently, uh, Kim
Seaverson, who's been on ourshow, wrote a wonderful article.
It's called Good News.
About rising food prices.
That's right.
She says good news about risingfood prices.
And it's, it's an interestingparadigm.
She identifies, she writes,while grocery shoppers agonize
over paying 25% more for eggsand 17% more for milk.
(01:34):
Michael Pollen, the author anddef facto leader of the food
intellectuals, happily Dreams ofsmall, expensive bottles of
Coca-Cola.
along with some other critics ofthe American way of eating, he
likes the idea that some kindsof food will cost more.
And here's one reason why, asthe price of fossil fuels and
commodities like grain climb,nutritionally questionable high
(01:56):
profit ingredients like.
high fructose corn syrup, willrise as well.
As a result, cokes are likely toget smaller and cost more.
Uh, then the argument goes fewerpeople will drink them or
they'll drink less of them.
Now.
The idea behind this article,and she, it's, it's a very well
written and, and a large articlethat we can fully address here.
(02:18):
But is that the kind of foodsthat are highly processed, bad
for the environment, bad foryou, have a large carbon
footprint, are the ones that areartificially cheap?
that are seeing the prices rise.
Mark (02:29):
Let's talk about the main food that we're talking about.
The, the, the.
Biggest food commodity that isartificially deflated is corn.
Francis (02:38):
Well, it's subsidized by the government, the prices of
corn in America are artificiallylow'cause we pay out huge
subsidies.
Not to individual farmers, butthe huge agribusiness
corporations.
Um.
To make more corn than we needso that our big food processors
can get cheap ingredients.
What this does is it puts smallfarmers in Mexico and other,
(02:58):
like even corn farmers inMexico, puts them out of
business, drives them off theland.
They then migrate here in searchof work.
We then want to kick them out.
Um, uh.
Corn uses a lot of fossil fuels.
It's transported a greatdistance.
It uses, petroleum based,pesticides.
But, but we're
Mark (03:13):
producing more corn right now.
And the reason we're producingmore corn right now is, is
ethanol.
Now, I'm, Not a proponent ofethanol, though.
I though I love the idea ofstudying it and learning more
about it and learning how it'sused.
I think that corn is not a greatuse for ethanol because it, it's
so highly intensive inpetroleum.
We, it takes so much petroleumto make well, corn, it takes a
Francis (03:35):
lot of water and it takes a lot of pesticides.
Mm-hmm.
And most of the corn in Americais genetically modified.
Uh, but in any event, thisartificially cheap corn, which
is now.
You know, artificially cheap,
Mark (03:44):
high fructose corn syrup.
And
Francis (03:45):
what's funny is we're still subsidizing these farmers
mm-hmm.
Who are making huge profits nowbecause of the demand for corn
and have been making very goodprofits all along.
Your family farm, by the way, isgenerally not subsidized.
And what the people that aretalking about, about these
rising prices of these foodsthat are nutritionally
questionable, um, and not sogreat for the environment is.
(04:07):
Do we and, and meat falls inthere.
'cause meat.
corn fed beef is, is a big partof our diet.
The question is, yes, the priceof food is going up, but let's
face it, everybody we're fat.
Okay, well, and, and let's
Mark (04:20):
face it, everybody food has been artificially cheap.
Okay?
Well, some kinds of food.
Some kinds of food.
But if McNuggets cost the sameamount as real chicken.
Would that be a bad thing?
And I think that's the questionthat Kim is asking.
Would that be a bad thing?
And I, and obviously the answeris no.
If it costs the same to put highfructose corn syrup in your
(04:44):
Coca-Cola as it does to putsugar in your Coca-Cola, would
that be a bad thing?
Well, and my argument is no itwould not.
Francis (04:51):
And if, and if Coca-Cola is a little more
expensive.
Mm-hmm.
And so.
You know, there is not anincentive for, some fast food
chains.
Say, yeah, you get a, a 64ounce, 64
Mark (05:02):
ounces for, for 10 cents more than the 10 ounce,
Francis (05:05):
right?
And they say, well, wait asecond.
We have to charge for that.
Is it such a great thing thatthe, the kinds of food that are
not good for us and not good forour planet and not good for our
farmers are so cheap and I'm,I'm not sure that it is.
And it's, it's always, are yousure that it's not right?
Well, I'm, you're sure that it'snot, And the fact of the matter
is also, well, we eat too muchof that kind of food.
(05:27):
Mm-hmm.
And, and look, a lot of us areobese.
So if we had to cut down your 64ounce Coke to a 32 ounce Coke or
a 28 ounce Coke, or like we had25 years ago,
Mark (05:35):
an eight ounce Coke.
Eight ounce
Francis (05:36):
Cokes.
Mark (05:36):
Mm-hmm.
Francis (05:37):
And that was a normal serving.
Was that a horrible thing?
I, I think it's a very goodthing.
Now remember, in the, in thecurrent system, uh, organic
farmers are not subsidized.
Vegetable farmers are generallynot subsidized.
Mm-hmm.
People who grow outside themainstream of the beef industry
are generally not subsidized.
Um, so, and, and they're alsowhen people have grass fed beef
(05:58):
that doesn't eat corn, and it'sraised locally, so it doesn't
rely a lot on, transportationfuels and it's grown
organically, so it doesn't use alot of petroleum based
fertilizers and pesticides.
Well, the rising fuel pricesaren't affecting those people as
much.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and so maybe, if so, if yourcow's
Mark (06:16):
eating grass, grass doesn't really cost anymore
because ethanol's being producedgrass is grass and it grows out
in the backyard and the cows eatit.
Francis (06:24):
And, and if this brings the kinds of good foods that,
that we.
Always talk about into the realmof, of competitiveness for
pricing, you have to pay alittle more for them rather than
a lot more.
I don't think that's a bad thingfor society.
And it's funny because people,uh, criticize Alice Waters here
all the time.
People have criticized us forsaying, well, you know, you
(06:45):
propose a diet that only richpeople who go to Whole Foods can
eat.
Look, whole Foods makes it easy,and Whole Foods charges a price.
Um, but again, I, I, I positthat.
A lot of us could probably eatless than we do.
Mark (06:58):
Well, I'll also posit that if you're eating seasonally and
you're eating from your localmarkets, one of the, the.
Great, secrets, I guess it isstill today, is that at a lot of
these local food markets, youare getting or, or have
available to you organic foodsand good for you foods that are
coming from local producers thatare the same or cheaper than the
(07:20):
tomatoes that are coming fromGuatemala that are on your
standard supermarket shelf.
Francis (07:23):
Well, and you bring up a good point.
Look, the lo shopping at yourlocal's farmer's market can
often be as.
Inexpensive or less expensivethan shopping at your
supermarket and the prices arecertainly more comparable'cause
you're cutting out themiddleman.
You're buying right from thefarmer.
But, but I guess what I'm sayingis when you go into a hamburger
joint and you pay 79 cents for aburger, you know that there's no
(07:45):
way that someone could producethat without externalizing a lot
of those costs and.
You know that it's not good foryou and you know, maybe you
don't get to have two Big Macs.
Mark (07:55):
When Francis talks about externalizing those costs, those
costs are either in your waterthat's no longer, potable
because of the pesticides thathave floated into it, or, uh, or
someone else pays the cost.
Right.
Someone else, someone pays thecost in pollution or in worker,
or, right.
Exactly.
Or maybe it's just the factthat.
(08:17):
It's, it's really, really badfor you.
And there's a, there's asocietal cost to that as well.
Francis (08:22):
It's always, it's always hard to argue the
position that, see for me, Ihate Walmart, right?
So I think Walmart does a lot ofbad things.
Some people disagree with me.
I think that's fine.
I, I subscribe to walmartwatch.com.
Um.
Walmart does bring cheaperprices to the consumer, at least
initially and maybe overall.
But if that, and I'm not sayingthis happens necessarily'cause I
don't want them to sue me, uh,but if a Walmart in your town
(08:45):
brings you 10% cheaper prices onhardware and groceries and other
stuff, but the hardware storecloses and the pharmacy closes
and the florist closes and allthose people are outta work and
your downtown is aborted updowntown.
I, is your life really betterbecause your groceries are 10%
cheaper?
I mean is are they really?
You know what is, that's what Italk about.
(09:06):
Externalizing the cost.
The cost is shut.
Yeah.
Walmart, the cost of Walmart.
You have to factor in shuttingdown your downtown.
Mm-hmm.
Anyway, well, we'll be back injust a moment.
We're gonna be talking withAndrew Zimmer of Bizarre Foods
with Andrew Zimmer, one of thebest shows on the travel channel
Hey everybody.
Welcome back.
You're listening to theRestaurant Guys, mark and
Francis of Stage left in CaptainLombardi restaurants in downtown
(09:27):
New Brunswick.
And our guest today is AndrewZimmer and he is the associate
editor and dining columnist forthe Minneapolis St.
Paul Magazine.
Uh, but he is also a host of theTravel Channels Bizarre Foods,
with Andrew Zimmer.
You can find out more abouthim@andrewzimmer.com.
You link there through ourwebsite@restaurantguysradio.com.
Mark (09:46):
Andrew, welcome back to the show.
Francis (09:47):
Hey guys, it's nice.
Great to be here.
It is nice to have you back.
Lots of things have happenedsince we first had you on the
show.
You, you've, you've exploded.
Andrew (09:56):
Well, uh, you know, let's just, let's just call a
spade a spade.
The two of you are the mostprescient, knowledgeable food
industry insiders in a globalsense.
And the minute that you, uh, youknow, took golden scepter and
knocked me over the head withit, the show took off.
So let's just.
Let's just be honest and sharethe credit where it's due.
Francis (10:18):
Oh, that's gonna go on a clip for our, I'll tell you
that things,
Andrew (10:21):
things are, things have definitely changed since the
last time that we talked.
The show's become very, verypopular.
We've, the network, tripledtheir order.
We're already filming the thirdseason, even though we're still
shooting the second one.
And.
You know, it's, uh, you know,the, the, the big book deals
started happening, thesponsorship started happening
(10:44):
and it's, it's a littleoverwhelming, I have to say.
You sort of never, I.
Plan on being in this position,and then when it sort of
happens, you're just so gratefuland so humbled by it all as
you're having a nervousbreakdown.
I, I was gonna say while you're
Mark (10:57):
clobbered by the, by the enormous work of it all at the
same time.
Yeah.
Andrew (11:00):
It's, it's, uh, it's kind of insane.
My, someone in my office took acalendar the other day to try to
explain to me how bad thingswere, and I said, it's not that
bad.
And they showed me that in a 90day period.
Even though I was in the countryfor like four weeks during that
90 day period, I was only intown in my hometown for four
days.
Mark (11:19):
Wow.
Wow.
Andrew (11:22):
Excuse me,
Mark (11:22):
this is the life of the superstar, Andrew.
You're just gonna have to acceptit.
Andrew (11:25):
It's, yeah, it's, I don't know.
It's, it's, it's the stuff theydon't hear.
I mean, I now have a lot moresympathy for the, uh, you know,
drug old 20-year-old moviestarlets.
Uh, I understand.
You know, thank God I'm 16 and ahalf years sober.
Mark (11:39):
That's good.
No.
You know, and now you have nomore eating, uh, you know, filet
mignon in restaurants.
It's just not allowed anymore.
Andrew (11:45):
You know, something.
It's so crazy.
It's, it's funny that you saythat because I, you know, I'll
go out to dinner with my wifeand my son.
You know, the local burger placeand someone is trying to scoop
something outta the garbage andserve it to me and send it to
the table with a cute note.
And I'm just like, my God.
Stop already.
No, I need a
Speaker 5 (12:02):
hamburger.
Mark (12:03):
Well, we, honestly, Francis and I have the same
problem having a, a, you know,one of our restaurants is a very
high end restaurant, so I'll goto friend's house and they want
to make me a gourmet meal.
Yeah.
And I, and I'm like.
Meatloaf.
Okay.
Not
Andrew (12:16):
that I Exactly.
I want pot roast.
Mark (12:19):
That's the stuff.
Now
Francis (12:20):
I understand that, bizarre Foods with Andrew Zimmer
is, is it the most popular showon the, on the, the Travel
channel?
I.
Andrew (12:26):
Yeah.
You know, half the season lastyear, uh, we were trading one in
two spots with the Tony's show,which was all on the same night,
which was Monday night.
Um, that's Anthony
Mark (12:36):
Bourdain's show called No Reservations on the same number.
Andrew (12:39):
That's right.
And, uh, you know, half theseason his show was number one,
half the season.
Mine was number one.
And you look at things two ways.
You know, there's, there'sratings in terms of percentage
of household, and then there'sdemographic.
Um, so there the two separateratings criteria.
And, we did a, uh, a fabulous,fabulous job, uh, last season
(12:59):
for the network in terms ofboth, as did he.
Did he this year matter?
We did such a great job thatthey moved me onto my own night.
Um, then once that happened, hisshow I think is in hiatus in
between season four A and fourB.
I'm in the middle of season twoA.
Mm-hmm.
And I think the last five weeksthat my show has been on, we've
(13:22):
been the highest rated program.
Mark (13:24):
So last year you did 12, 14 shows, and this year you're
gonna be doing more.
Andrew (13:28):
Uh, about almost 40 if you include the specials.
Francis (13:31):
Wow.
Now, alright, so, what is thekey to the ratings?
Is it, is it the more bizarrefood you eat or the more bizarre
the food is that the ratings goup?
What is the key to the mosthighly rated shows?
I.
Andrew (13:41):
It really depends on what happens within the context
of each show.
I'll, I'll tell you a funnystory.
Uh, season number one, the mostwatched and talked about episode
I didn't, and the most watchedand talked about, seen in that
episode.
I didn't even eat anything.
It was when the witch doctorfrom Ecuador abused me, uh,
naked in his office, um, whichis why they decided to do a
(14:03):
pilot with me called BizarreWorlds, where I don't eat
anything.
but I'm just out getting abusedby which doctors in, in foreign
countries.
Um, I've argued successfully tohave some, some food thrown into
the mix there because I don'twant to, I don't want to take
away or dilute what I love todo.
So, on one hand, that's thebiggest ratings, Bonanza, which
(14:24):
is me, me being abused bysomeone sort, the fish.
The, the other giant ratingsbonanza is when you put
something so outrageous, sofantastical into it, that it
begins to.
Dictate to people that this issort of must see television, the
opening segment of our seasontwo A was the, uh, the penis
(14:46):
restaurant in Beijing and itexploded out of the screen at
people, no pun intended.
And you know, our head ofprogramming, Matt Butler, uh,
actually said to people in ameeting, very seriously, uh, you
know, penis equals ratings andwhich is one of the all time
great humorous.
You know, show meeting notes
Francis (15:05):
now.
That's a quote now so that ourlisteners, before our listeners
start calling up and lighting upthe switchboard here, we're
talking about a restaurant thatserves, uh, animal.
Penises as That's right.
Andrew (15:16):
40 different types.
And in luxury, I should tellyou, it's, it's about 300 bucks
a person.
And you're served on goldservice and everything is done
in private rooms.
And you know, the, the Chinese,more so than any other people
believe that you eat for health.
Um.
You eat foods that are supposedto cool you down when it's hot,
heat you up when it's cold.
(15:36):
Uh, you eat to maintain balance,and to maintain your qi and your
yin and yang.
We're
Francis (15:42):
we're gonna, we're, we're gonna be back after the
break and talk about, uh, AndrewZimmerman's Yin and Yang.
Uh, we'll back in just where myyin yang.
You're listening to therestaurant guys.
1450 WCTC is 1125, before thebreak we were talking about the,
the penis restaurant.
Can you, can you continue totell us about the penis
restaurant?
Andrew (15:58):
Sure.
It's, uh, Guang Ju is the, isone of the most famous
restaurants in Beijing, and, andit's got five or six private
rooms.
There's no public dining roomthere.
You make a reservation, whetheryou're two or 20, you're put
into a private room.
Mark (16:12):
Well, you know, because listen, if you're gonna eat
penis, you wanna be in a privateroom,
Andrew (16:16):
you need to be alone, especially given the size of
some of them.
And you, uh, you, you order, youknow, a series of prescription
of courses.
I started out with a, uh, asoup.
That was, uh, a, uh, turtle soupthat had a, sorry, a frog soup
that had a snake's penisgarnishing the top, and then all
the way at the back end of themeal, we had a fantastic hot
(16:38):
pot.
You know that there's, there's,you know, a turtle floating in
this giant tub of fantasticbroth and vegetables and there's
shrimp and other things inthere, and out comes a
three-tiered platter.
With seven different types ofpenis on it.
Um, and it, it was just, it wasabsolutely staggering.
I can tell you that the, thebraised, uh, yak penis in the
(17:02):
soup was much better than thestir fried spicy deer penis that
I had as the course in between.
I, I was not a big fan of deer
Francis (17:09):
penis.
Okay.
Now, I, I think that you, youmay be leaving some of our
listeners in Lurch when you talkabout some penises in relation
to how good they are in relationto other penises.
Yeah.
For those of us who've never hadit.
That at all for frame ofreference?
Um, uh, what is it?
Like, what's it, um, I mean, isit, would you do it again?
Is it, is it delicious?
Oh, absolutely.
Andrew (17:29):
Absolutely.
The donkey and yak penis isfantastic.
Um, because, and, and I hate to,I hate to use a cliche and I'm
not, I, I, I don't intend thisto be played for a yuck,
although it's very.
Funny.
Uh, but bigger is better.
the larger the, the member, soto speak, um, the, the longer
(17:49):
they cook it and the moretextures are involved.
And so it ends up being a muchmore tender and, uh, uh,
succulent eating experience.
Francis (17:58):
And there you have, they
Andrew (18:00):
have,
Francis (18:00):
go ahead.
Andrew (18:01):
You know, it's very cartilage.
It's, it's much like, uh, someof the parts of a pig's foot
would be with very little, youknow, meat and mostly cartilage.
you have to remember if any ofyou have, have, uh, pets at
home, those, those dog bulliesare sometimes the, actual
cartilage part of the penisthat.
is used as a pet food and that'soften what is cooked.
(18:22):
So a a something like a deerpenis or a seal penis is, is so
small in terms of thatcartilage, this part that can be
cooked, that you actually end upwith something that's very, very
tough.
Interesting.
Francis (18:34):
Alright, we'll be back after the news more with Andrew
Zimmerman of Andrew Zimmer's.
Bizarre Foods You may knowAndrew Zimmer from his, uh, blog
Chow, and again, which you canfind today, andrew zimmer.com.
He's also an associate editor inthe Dining columnist for
Minneapolis St.
Paul Magazine, but you probablyknow him through the Travel
Channel's Bizarre Foods withAndrew Zimmer.
Mark (18:54):
Andrew, in watching the show, one of the things that I
realize is most of the peoplewho you are talking to don't
necessarily think their bizarrefoods are all that bizarre.
Is
Andrew (19:06):
that true?
Uh, none of them do.
Uh, and as a matter of fact, Ithink that's the gift of the
show.
One of our intentions, we, we,we never set out to do shock
television.
What we wanted to do wasactually take people into other
cultures and explore the foodsof those cultures, and along the
way.
Learn a couple of things.
You know when if you try toexplain craft American cheese
(19:29):
singles to a Kalahari Bushman,they're gonna look at you like
you're crazy.
By the way.
I look at we're crazy.
Mark (19:33):
I look at people like they're crazy.
Okay.
Craft American singles arecrazy.
Andrew (19:36):
Yeah, I'm an East Coast guy.
You guys are on the east coast.
You know, when I moved out toMinnesota and everyone was
saying on Sundays in churchbasements, everybody here eats
Luta Fisk, which is, you know,dried cod soaked in lie.
Then rehydrated for seven daysso they can get the poisons out
of it.
And old white-haired grandmotherserve it to you with about a
quarter pound of melted butteron it.
I thought that's crazy.
(19:56):
It's the strangest thing I'veever heard.
Why you do that.
There's perfectly good fish tobe eaten all around you.
but more, more ludicrous iseaten in Minnesota than in
Norway, Sweden, and Denmarkcombined.
So, you know, you've got thesesort of pockets of enthusiasm
for foods all over the world,oftentimes right in your own
backyard.
it's quite amazing how, youknow, one man's weird, really is
(20:20):
another man's wonderful.
Where in the part of the worldwhere you guys are, you have a,
a thing that I'm addicted to,thanks to my wife called Taylor
Ham.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
Andrew (20:28):
And, and you know, if you start to explain that to
somebody, I've tried to explainit here to Minnesotans until
they eat it, they're just like,what is, that?
Sounds weird.
Francis (20:36):
Yeah.
It sounds, it's sort of likethe, the, the northeast version
of Scrapple, but much better.
Oh, so much better.
So much better.
on an English muffin with cheeseand an over easy egg.
So the egg yolk runs down yourleg when you eat the sandwich.
They pork, egg, and cheese.
There's, I mean that's Deal's.
A jersey Diner sandwich.
Andrew (20:52):
Exactly.
John Bon Jovi's favorite food.
Mark (20:55):
Oh, is it really?
It's, I did not information, Idid not know.
I have to say I did not.
Andrew (20:59):
I, I got a chance to chat with him about it once at
a, at a party.
You know, everyone wants to,when you're at a music party,
everyone wants to talk to thefood guy.
Francis (21:07):
Well, now, now you brought up a very, uh,
interesting point.
What was the name of the foodthat this, this, the lies soak,
salt, cod, that you talkedabout.
Okay.
You talk about it being morepopular in Minneapolis, uh, in
the Minneapolis area than it isin Scandinavia.
Correct.
And I I think that brings up,there's a, it further buttresses
your point about food beinginextricably linked to culture.
(21:30):
Yes.
In that, that's, that's anexample of immigrants.
Who are trying down thegenerations to hold on to what
makes them special.
And so that is a part of theirculture.
And I think, you know, I'm IrishAmerican and we do a lot of
crazy things that, you know,like mm-hmm.
You know, go to the St.
Patrick's Day parade in Dublin.
It's nine guys in a bagpipewalking down, you know, some
street go to the St.
(21:51):
Patrick's Day parade in NewYork.
Well, and then, you know, you,you've got the, the largest
impact day parade in the world.
And I think with food we do asimilar thing.
It's a way to identify ourselvesculturally.
Andrew (22:03):
Sometimes it's a positive, sometimes it's a
negative.
And the exploring the storiesthere is, is fascinating.
You, you're absolutely right.
I mean, if you go onto the UpperEast side of New York and you go
over into Yorkville, into someof the old neighborhoods,
there's still, there's moreHungarian and German
delicatessens there than youknow, anywhere else outside of
Germany.
Um, Germany, it's fascinatingand some of the best elements of
(22:24):
those cultures are preserved.
Go into Chinese restaurants
Speaker 5 (22:28):
in.
Andrew (22:28):
New York and order kung pow chicken, get on a plane with
your to-go order and go to ChangDo and order kung pow chicken
and eat them side by side.
And you can see sometimes howthese syncretic dishes as
they're transported around theworld change.
And in some cases, like the kungpow.
In talking to chefs in Chengdu,they are absolutely crazy upset
(22:50):
that the popularity of theunofficial kung style chicken is
gonna dilute kung chicken backhome as people return and are.
Eager to taste what they'veeaten in other countries and not
what originated in Chang do
Francis (23:03):
now you, is that what you mean when you say, you know,
sometimes it works for good andsometimes it works for bad.
Is that when you mean it worksfor bad when things get diluted?
How does, how can do bad?
Andrew (23:12):
That is, well, that is bad.
I think sometimes you're indanger of losing the dish
forever.
Food is a way to experiencehistory.
You know, we talked before onthis program the last time that
I was on about, there arecertain pathways.
You know, I'm not arguing forthe horse and buggy to come
back, although.
With the situation with oil inthis country, maybe that would
be a good thing.
But if sometimes if you lose away of cooking or a style of
(23:33):
cooking, it can be lost foreverbecause it's something that has
to be, it's like theater.
You can never see Marlon Brandoand streetcar name, desire
again,
Speaker 5 (23:41):
right
Andrew (23:42):
on stage.
And I think that as long as wehave ways to preserve The
traditions, you know, I'm on myway to Sicily.
I just was in a pre-productionmeeting, uh, for a Sicily show.
And you know, it's an island.
Thank God islands are the bestthing for food preservation, art
preservation, everything thereis so unique, uniquely unique,
even given how, localizedItalian food is.
(24:02):
I'm, you know.
Preaching your guys' language toyou, but it's, it's so localized
that sometimes modernism has away of destroying and trampling
on culture, bearing it under afoot of, of new rubble that
sometimes can't be unearthed.
Mark (24:16):
And also when you can't learn true cooking, you can't
really learn how to make a dishby just reading a recipe out of
a book.
Correct.
That it's taught from one personto the next person to the next
person.
And that's because it is a, anart, because there is a feel to
it that that's.
That's how it is.
'cause
Francis (24:32):
great cooking is not always from a recipe.
'cause ingredients aredifferent.
And you need to, you need tohave the, the cook's palate,
like a wine maker's palate.
You know, we, that's exactlyright.
We can follow the recipes formaking wine, like they made it,
you know, 500 years ago ormaking wine like they, they used
in ancient Greece or Rome, butwe're not really sure that's how
they did it.
Just like we're not sure that'show they pronounced Latin.
(24:53):
We can write it, but.
Can we speak it?
I don't know.
Andrew (24:55):
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
Francis (24:57):
You know, it's funny that you talk about an island,
an island being great places topreserve cuisine because, uh,
there are two things I I, when Ilook at the cuisines of the
world that, you know, we're sortof finding in sort of an
original state that is notcosmopolitan.
Mark (25:10):
For instance, the food of Long Island.
Francis (25:11):
Well, you know, that the, uh, the, that you bring up
a good point there because Ithink that islands and places
that have experienced, At leastsome time of poverty in the
modern era, I think are oftenrich places to have cuisine.
Because if places are wealthyenough and cosmopolitan enough,
they, they join the worldpalate.
Mm-hmm.
(25:31):
You know, and I think that inpoor places that they, they're
stuck in their own tradition'cause they didn't have a
choice.
But, you know, thank heaven.
Does that that make sense?
That that's
Andrew (25:39):
right.
That's right.
And, and remember, povertyequals cooking as well.
I mean, in ancient Rome, in thewealthier households, uh, when
you look at ancient recipebooks, they were eating roasted
whole animals and eating primaland center cuts of them.
It was in the, you know, it's inthe slums of Morocco, you know,
in, a thousand years ago thatthey're learning how to make.
(26:01):
You know, soup with just bonesand vegetable scraps.
Speaker 5 (26:04):
Sure.
Andrew (26:04):
And it's the same way in our, in, in our kitchens today.
You know, there are a lot ofgreat restaurants in this world
that I go into and people arelike, oh, isn't the food
fabulous?
This is some of the best cookingI've ever experienced.
It's like, this isn't cooking,this is assembling and good
purchasing.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (26:18):
You know, you know, cooking is different than buying
and assembling.
And so oftentimes, even when youlook at ancient cultures, if
they were able to affordimported foods, if they were
able, I mean, in, in the 15thcentury in England, if you had a
cinnamon stick in your house, itmeant you were a very rich,
wealthy man.
And that's why cinnamon sticksare in every ancient recipe for
(26:39):
roasted goose
Speaker 5 (26:40):
that you
Andrew (26:40):
ever find from.
You know, 15th century Englandall the way through 17th.
Um, it wasn't until much lateron that they started to look all
around them and say, oh, we canuse spices and nerves and things
that are grown here.
Uh, so it, it does work onseveral different levels.
I, I think your theory is, uh,is a solid.
Mark (26:57):
So many of your shows are, are focused on the parts of the
animals that, that we don't eatin this country.
Yep, yep.
Or we, we choose not to eat inthis country or, well,
Andrew (27:08):
we, we do.
We eat them in very fancyrestaurants now where the snout
to tail movement has gained atoehold, but the rest of the
world has been eating that wayfor thousands of years and never
stopped.
Well,
Mark (27:17):
even, even here, we were eating them for thousands of
years and then we stopped.
Francis (27:21):
That's right.
That's right.
Well, you know, but I thinkAndrew Point about.
Uh, you know, in the, in wealthyoutsides, it's cooking that
resides in, in, in largemeasure, in the poor areas, at
least historically.
Mm-hmm.
Because if you can, when, whenthe animal is slaughtered, if
you're the rich person and youcan afford to take the chops,
the loin, and go home.
Well, all you do is basicallyseason that, heat it up and
(27:42):
serve it with some mashes,right?
Yeah.
Yep.
But if you are the poor personand your mother is presented
with the intestines and thenose, the Capella, and you
better, you better have sometalent there to make that taste
good.
That's right.
You know,
Andrew (27:57):
that is Exactly, and that's why people are always
like, they say, oh, did youreally like that?
I'm like.
Really like it.
It was fantastic because whenthat chef took the, the, the
trotters and the liver and theheart and made a, a braise out
of it with the, you know, alittle bit of bacon and
vegetables and wine, it wastranscendent.
Mm.
The guy that took the lamb chopsand threw'em on the grill is he
(28:18):
didn't have much of a job.
Francis (28:19):
Yeah, but, but I'd still like to go over his house
if he invited me.
I still like lamb chops.
Sorry.
Andrew (28:24):
You're, you're, you know, you're, you're right.
And I, and I know that, I knowthe point you're making.
I mean, because you can extendthat argument if you don't, if
you don't eat ole in thewintertime, you can't appreciate
a perfect tomato in the middleof summer.
Francis (28:35):
Absolutely.
And it,
Andrew (28:36):
it's why, it's why eating with the seasons.
Is important to everyone and Imake the ar same argument.
We should be eating all, youknow, if you enlarge your diet,
uh, and start, not only will youfind new things that you like,
but you're also going to be ableto appreciate, uh, a lot of
different foods, and not.
Not remain a kind of jaded eaterthat expects, uh, you know,
(28:57):
chops and, uh, and sliced tomatosalads 24 7 365.
Francis (29:02):
now, we've been talking about, the, the, the effective
wealth on, uh mm-hmm.
And class on, on food and foodculture.
we've been talking aboutdifferent food cultures valuing
different parts of, of ananimal, because let's face it,
yeah, vegetables are exciting,but animals are really exciting.
Yeah.
Um, are there any parts ofanimals that are sort of
universally, taboo or is, is thewhole animal eaten?
(29:28):
Somewhere
Andrew (29:29):
the whole animal is eaten somewhere.
I mean, even, I mean, you know,people always say, well, you
know, the bile from, you know,different organs isn't eaten.
It's like, oh, contraire.
I mean, I just, I just had it inSamoa and Hawaii with some
tribal people that use it toseason the soup.
Francis (29:44):
Oh, okay.
You got, you gotta share withme.
How does that work exactly?
Andrew (29:46):
Uh, they actually stir the bile in and during the last
couple minutes of cooking, andthey actually, they, they love
that sour off.
Flavor.
Huh?
Mark (29:57):
Do you, do you think that the American palate is bland
compared to the rest of theworld?
Oh, absolutely.
That we look for, for bland ortype foods than the rest of the
world.
Andrew (30:07):
It, it's not that we look for bland or it's, it's
just that there's, we've lost,we're only a couple hundred
years old and you know, as youaccurately put, there was a time
in this country where we ateeverything, but we've lost such
a connect.
We.
In this country, we putconvenience and luxury so far
(30:27):
high up on our cultural totemthat we lose perspective on the
possibilities of what to do.
Mm-hmm.
With the rest of our.
Our food life.
I mean, it's not, I mean, it's,it's almost a self-fulfilling
process prophecy that we'reneutering it when you, I mean,
it's the two things that killgreat food, sp speed and
convenience.
(30:48):
It doesn't mean that there'snot, you know, good eating that
could be had by something that'sfast.
Um, it's just that those are twouniversal killers.
And I, I think it's, I thinkit's damaged us to a great
degree.
You know, we also are obsessedwith.
The new here, uh, you know, inItaly, I've got Italy on the
brain'cause I'm, I'm going therein a week.
you know, in Italy they, theyworship the new, I mean,
(31:10):
there's, there's more NovaCucina and progressive cooking
going on in Italy than justabout anywhere else in the
world.
But those, those chefs who aredoing even, uh, the Italians
that are getting into moleculargastronomy, uh, and, you know,
putting.
Spaghetti bolognas into a, intoa jelly bean are still not
playing around with, you know,lobster or more cane.
I mean, they're still puttingspaghetti bolognas into a, into
(31:33):
a jelly bean.
They're still cooking their foodfrom their region right from
their season.
Mark (31:38):
But the re but the reverent of a tradition and
reverend of that's.
Andrew (31:41):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
In this country, and I, and I, Imean, you guys are, are
restaurant people and you know,so you know it as well as anyone
else.
I can't tell you how many youngpeople I meet with who come
outta cooking school.
They did a stage and a fancyrestaurant and they think they
can become a chef and the firstthing they want to do is they
wanna start experimenting.
Speaker 5 (31:59):
Mm-hmm.
The
Andrew (31:59):
other night I was, I was.
Listen, I was watching Top Chef,one of my favorite shows, and
Tom Collicchio said somethingthat I wish they had just frozen
the tape and then replayed itagain.
He said, if you wanna cook in acontemporary modern style, you
have to know the classics.
Francis (32:13):
Yeah.
Andrew (32:14):
And it's really true.
I mean, the French impressionistpainters, uh, who were the first
to kind of break out of thehistorical life painting mode
were the greatest draftsmen inthe world.
They, they were like folkrealists.
They had such great skill'causethey learned it as they had
called a boar.
But it wasn't until you coulddraw the.
The, the human hand in perfectform that you could begin to
experiment with theirimpressions of the human form.
(32:37):
And it's the same thing withfood.
We, we don't know ourselves,we've lost, everyone wants what
they want and they want it.
Now, it's the king Babysyndrome.
And young chefs are toodesperate to become a superstar
today as opposed to learning a.
You know, the skillset that willallow them to create a career
where they have the opportunityto be a superstar later on.
Mark (32:57):
We, we've actually talked about that with Tom and some
other great chef, a guy in inChicago by Iran Atkins.
Sure.
And, and that's exactly what wetalked about, that you need to
know the traditions and the, thebasics and the building blocks,
because those are the buildingblocks from which you can
experiment if you don't That'sright.
If you don't have those basics,you're
Francis (33:17):
just a kid playing around the kitchen.
You're
Mark (33:18):
just a kid playing around with this, with this chemistry
set.
Andrew (33:21):
Right.
Thomas Keller, who I worked forfor two years, told me, he said,
there is a right way and a wrongway to cook everything.
And what he meant was he didn'tsay there's the only way.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
Mm-hmm.
His
Andrew (33:29):
point was, once you know how to roast a chicken, you can
then roast it a milliondifferent ways, but you gotta
learn how to roast it first.
I've, I've experienced thatwith, I.
With coconut grubs, you know,they don't know how to cook'em
in the Philippines, even thoughit's a part of their diet, but
they sure do know how to cook'emin Ecuador, where they grill'em.
I mean, there's a right way anda wrong way to clean'em and
prepare'em.
And it doesn't matter whetheryou're dining in a jungle,
(33:50):
sitting on an earth and flooreating grubs, or whether you're
in a French, uh, Parisian templeof gastronomy.
Uh, you know, good cooking isstill good cooking at the end of
the day.
It's gotta taste.
Right.
Mark (34:00):
Well, well, it matters a little.
Francis (34:03):
Well, Andrew, I tell you every time we talk to you
for an hour, it feels like I,you know, I, I've left three
hours untalked, so I hope you'llcome back and join us again.
I.
Andrew (34:11):
Anytime you guys wanna have me on, let's, let's set it
up because I love, uh, it worksboth ways.
I love it myself,
Francis (34:17):
super.
Andrew Zimmer, and you have tocheck out his show on the Travel
channel Bazaar Foods with AndrewZimmer.
Also go to andrew zimmer.com.
You can link there throughrestaurant guys radio.com.
We'll be back in just a moment.
(34:52):
Hey everybody.
Welcome back.
It's Mark and Francis, therestaurant guys, and, uh, Andrew
Zimmer just won't hang up thephone.
Actually, I, I'm like a bad
Andrew (34:59):
cold.
I refuse to go away.
Are you guys ever gonna come toMinnesota?
Mark (35:03):
You, you know, I have some friends that I just spent the
weekend with who are, who here?
Here back east, who live inMinnesota and they have invited
me out there to do some icefishing in Minnesota.
Andrew (35:13):
Do not say yes.
It's a kiss of death.
Well, it's boring.
Here's the thing.
Well, no, no, it's not that it'sboring.
It's just that Minnesotans loveto mess around with folks like
you.
And so they say, yeah, come outfor some ice fishing, and they
drag.
I mean, I, I really shouldn'tsay that.
Winter is gorgeous up here.
We go up to my in-laws lakehome.
We snowmobile, we ice fish, wego out hunting.
It's, it's it, you go wolfwatching, it's fantastic, but.
(35:37):
May through November.
Minnesota is America's paradise,and it's the best kept secret in
the country when it, I mean, youcome out here, I mean, it's not
called Land of a thousand Lakesfor nothing.
You can't, you can't get outinto the Adirondacks unless you
know someone who's got a greathouse up here.
The whole state looks like that,and it's just paradise.
Mark (35:56):
Wow.
Well, I'll tell you my, myfriends do have a bit of a droll
sense of humor, so, so I couldsee them basically leaving me
out in the middle of a river tofinish my,
Andrew (36:04):
well, even if you.
Even if you come in winter, you,we'll, we'll go to my in-laws
house.
We'll get on the snowmobiles.
We'll go eat a good meal.
We'll, we cook food in thefireplace.
It's a lot of fun.
Francis (36:12):
Alright, so if you hear us, uh, running repeats one
week, you'll know we're inMinnesota.
We're in Minnesota.
Snowmobile
Mark (36:18):
and not ice fishing.
Andrew (36:19):
Exactly.
Uh, exactly.
Francis (36:21):
Well, Andrew, it's, it's been a blast.
Uh, if I come out, it will notbe ice fishing, that's for sure.
Thanks, sir.
Please
Andrew (36:26):
come out for the Minnesota State Fair.
That's an eating orgy, the likesof which you never Well, that
sounds like a blast.
Mark (36:31):
I'm a huge fan of eating orgy.
Andrew (36:33):
Well listen.
Oh, we love that.
Francis (36:34):
Andrew.
If you don't hang up this time,you're gonna have to come on the
next show after the news andthat show's not even about food.
Andrew (36:41):
See you guys later.
Alright, bye-bye.
Francis (36:43):
Andrew Zimmer.
You can check himout@andrewzimmerman.com.
I tell.
I did go ice fishing with my dadwhen I was a kid.
I used to.
Fish with my dad, hunt with mydad and go ice fishing with my
dad.
Yeah.
On Lake of Pcon in Northern NewJersey.
Uh, the most boring thing I everdid in my life.
And cold and cold at that.
And we put the little thing inthe ice and we drilled out the
hated my life.
We did that.
Hunting Awesome.
(37:03):
Ice fishing.
No, I, I, I agree with Andra onthat one.
All right.
Well, I hope you've enjoyed yourhour with the restaurant guys.
Uh, I, sir.
I know we certainly have.
I'm Francis Shot.
And I'm Mark Pascal.
We are the restaurant guys.
1450 WCTC.
The time is 12 noon.
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