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July 3, 2025 59 mins

This is a Vintage Selection from 2005

The Banter

The Guys talk about the Big Apple BBQ 2005 that Francis attended with their chef. Sadly, Mark had to miss because he had a newborn. 

The Conversation

The Restaurant Guys interviewed the best pitmasters from all over the U.S. at Big Apple BBQ in NYC. The masters shared their regional styles, methods and colorful personalities while the guys “pigged out” on the good stuff that used to be hard to come by in the northeast. 

The Inside Track

The Restaurant Guys are culinarily well-versed from fine dining restaurants to hamburger joints, but they had some things to learn about Q. 


 Francis: What's snoot? 

Smoki O’s: Snoot is the anterior prolongation of the pig's nose.

Francis: Is that your specialty?

Smoki O’s: Barbecue is our specialty. We barbecue anything from the pig's nose to the, um, from the rooter to the tooter! 

-The Restaurant Guys Podcast at Big Apple BBQ 2005

Guests & Info 

Chef Anthony Bucco

Special Guest Host


Michael Rodriguez

Salt Lick BBQ

Driftwood, TX

 https://saltlickbbq.com/driftwood/


Ron Blasingame

Whole Hog Cafe

Little Rock, AR (& in NJ, too!)

https://www.wholehogcafe.com/


Elaine & Garry Roark

Ubon’s (The Barbecue of Yazoo)

Yazoo, MS

https://ubonsbbq.com/


 Carolyn Macklemore

Big Bob Gibson 

Decateur, AL

https://bigbobgibson.com/


Kenny Callahan

Blue Smoke (2002-2024)

NY, NY

https://www.bluesmoke.com/


Smoki O’s (closed 2021)

St Louis, MO


Ed Mitchell

North Carolina

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Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mark (00:41):
Good morning, Francis.
Hi there, mark.
How you doing?
Welcome home.
Thank you.
Glad to be back.
Sorta

Francis (00:49):
for those of you in Lister land, I just returned
from Ireland.
Yeah.
With nice little trip land of myforebears.
Yeah.
It's beautiful.
Mm-hmm.
The island of saints and ferriesand

Mark (01:01):
I'm not even going there.
Not that kind of fairy.
Had a nice little weekendmyself.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
We did some, some grilling andbarbecuing in the backyard.
Yeah.
It was big fun.
You did not, well, we didn'treally, but we did some ribs and
some burgers and some chickenand

Francis (01:19):
that barbecue line was a, was a, was a lob, wasn't it?
Yeah, it was indeed.
That was a segue into our, intoour discussion, which is we're
gonna talk about real barbecue

Mark (01:26):
today, except I really did do some fake barbecuing.

Francis (01:29):
Well, you did some real

Mark (01:30):
grilling.
Well, no, I, I, what I do withthe ribs is I cook'em for a
couple hours in the oven at alow temperature and then I take
'em out to the grill and justfinish'em up out there.
I recently met some gentlemen

Francis (01:38):
who would.
Would quibble with your, yourclassification of that as real
barbecue.

Mark (01:43):
I'm sure that they would just not even quibble with it.
They'd call me an idiot and movealong.
No,

Francis (01:46):
they're nicer than that.
That's just what they'd think.
What we're talking about for allyou out there, our listeners is,
uh, we're talking about thedistinction between barbecue and
grilling now.
Barbecue, real barbecue.
We don't see a lot of in NewJersey, and only recently have
we started to see some in NewYork.
Mm-hmm.
But real barbecue is, is is along slow, I mean like 18 hour

(02:07):
cooking process.
Well, Francis,

Mark (02:09):
we're, we're here in New York, New Jersey area.
Mm-hmm.
We don't have time to barbecue.
Exactly right.
Hey, I got 18 minutes.
Ready, set, go.

Francis (02:16):
Well, and you also, you know, I find that in suburban
lawns, if you put a coal pit inyour backyard.
People get really upset.
Neighbors get ticked.
You can't

Mark (02:24):
really bring down the property values and you, and you
can't fit a, a pig in one ofthose terracotta things that
goes on your patio.

Francis (02:29):
But, but if you're in Decatur, Alabama, it's just, you
know, you don't, if you don'thave one, you're not cool.
Well, I recently went to, as youknow, I.
And this is Tell all of you outthere in listener land.
I went to the Big Apple barbecuebefore I left, and the big Apple
barbecue is a big deal thing.
We have a, it's a, it's huge.
It's a, it's at Madison SquarePark and it's a, it's a, that's
a Saturday event.

(02:50):
It's a two day event actually.
And uh, what we have the bestbarbecuers from all over the
country come to this region,which is kind of unusual.
We've got, Ken Callahan fromBlue Smoke in New York, and they
sort of host the event, but it'soutside in the park.
Yeah.
He doesn't travel very far.
No, he's the closest.
Yeah.
We have people from all over thecountry.
And what's real interesting iswhile they do barbecue all over
America, it's different

Mark (03:09):
every place.
So how many different barbecuepeople are, are at this event?
For

Francis (03:13):
instance, uh, 10, 10 different master bar.
Now these people go and have acompetition every year.
Oh yeah.
I mean, in, in the Memphis andMay competition, there are a
thousand.
Pit masters, that's what youcall somebody who does barbecue.
A thousand entries into theMemphis and May concept.
They take this stuff prettyseriously.
They really do.
And they travel all over thecountry to do it.
And barbecue lovers likewisetravel all over the place.

(03:33):
And there are regionaldifferences.
Mm-hmm.
In Texas, they barbecue, mostlybeef in, Mississippi and the
northeast of barbecue, mostlypork.
I mean, this is a whole culture.
It's called Q by the way.
If you're in the know, you gonnago and get you some QI I'm
thinking up a southern accenttalking to you.
I dunno where that came from.
I was thinking of brogue twodays ago.
The thing.
But they have, they have themusic, they have the, the whole
thing.
Um, they do this every June.

(03:54):
This is the second year.
We're gonna do it again nextyear.
Um, but they have bands.
They have bands all afternoon.
and there's different kinds ofmusic depending on where you're
getting your barbecue.
There was jazz, there's jazzband, there's a rockabilly band,
a country band.

Mark (04:06):
Well, just like each, each area has its own style of
barbecue.
They also have their own styleof music that goes with, with
it.
And it's, it's the style

Francis (04:14):
of barbecue is what they barbecue and also what
sauce they put on it.
Mm-hmm.
Because the barbecue sauce, youknow, this whole, like, we go
into the supermarket and you getthat can and pepper thing,
that's not really, I mean, you,you can't call that a barbecue
sauce and barbecue country.
Right.
I mean, some places havetomato-based barbecue sauce
that's like that, but better.
I had some of the best food.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, this stuff took a longtime to cook and it was unlike

(04:34):
anything.
There's no way to make it thatgood unless you cook it that
long.

Mark (04:37):
Well, you know, I was really jealous'cause I adore
barbecue and, and was unable tocome with you'cause the baby was
just a, a week or two old at thetime.

Francis (04:45):
All I have to say is get your priorities straight,
man.
I will tell you about thisfestival.
What was interesting is you sawNew Yorkers who were just, I
mean, were very fanatical aboutthis now.
This was a hot summer day andthere were lines.
The way it works is you go tothe barbecue festival, there's
no fee for entry, but you canbuy a beer and they closed off a
city block around Madison SquarePark, which is

Mark (05:04):
impressive in, in and of its own holy cow.
To closed off a city block inManhattan is beautiful.
The logistics of doing that justmust be.

Francis (05:11):
Tragic beau, beautiful summer day.
And there were lines mark.
There were lines like, I mean, Iwould say that it took you an
hour to get to the front of theline.
There's no fee for entry and youget up to any stand you want to
go to.
Mm-hmm.
And it's seven bucks for a plateof barbecue, whatever they're
making.
I don't know, pig lips, hogfeet, I don't know.
all kinds of things.
and uh, you know, I thought tomyself, I would never stand on a

(05:34):
line that long for anything inthe hot sun.
Except maybe barbecue, but Ialso got a press pass.
I love this radio show becausethey have this thing.
If you go, and I'm gonna tellyou if you go buy this thing
called a Bubba Pass, and you canfind out more about this than
when the next one's coming.
I, I'm sorry.
Francis Bubba Pass.
That's what I said.
Yeah.
Okay.
Whatever you say, man, you go,you go to this.

(05:56):
By the way, part of what wasgreat about this event was it
was totally ridiculous uhhuh tosee New Yorkers doing this.
But, but the lines are inTerminable.
Mm-hmm.
But if you go and you buy aBubba Pass for a hundred
dollars, you cut in front of thewhole line.
And that is worth a hundreddollars worth of stuff.
So the idea

Mark (06:12):
is you better go really hungry.
So you could go to the 10 placeswith, or, or you can go to seven
places with, with two people.
That's it.
And at$49 you'd each, that's it.
You'd make out or, or you.
And you can go to the front ofline.
You don't have to wait for 150people to get the

Francis (06:26):
barbecue.
There you go.
It's like an hour in the hot sunwaiting to one place, and then
if you want barbecue someplaceelse, that's another hour.
That's really, that's

Mark (06:34):
really a

Francis (06:34):
no brainer.
I recommend as decadent as weare.
Well, you know, but the thing isyou can get four people and
spend 25 bucks a person.
Right?
That's true.
so you go, you get the BubbaPass, or you start your own
radio show and you get a presspass.
I really do like this.
The France part of, yeah.

Mark (06:47):
Do the people online get mad at you when you cut in front
of

Francis (06:49):
em?
No.
No.
No.
They don't.
They, you sort of go in the backand they, they, you have this
official looking pass aroundyour neck and they figure you're
somebody important.
I'm not, but it looked like Iwas on So you fooled them.
I did way to be, man.
I had them fooled.
But you have real barbecue hereand you also have the real
people that.
Do it.
This is, I mean, there are,these are the top, these are the
championship barbecues fromacross the country, and they're
there, and you can talk to themwhen you get up there.

(07:11):
Now, are they from restaurantsnow?
Now are these guys just backyardbarbecuers?
Some of them are backyardbarbecues.
This is like a hobby.
This is like, you know, if, if,if, if you had a, like a sport
that was your house, a civil war

Mark (07:20):
reenact that goes

Francis (07:21):
around the country, huh?
Even more serious than, and someof these guys have restaurants.
I mean, some of these, have youseen some of those Civil war
reenactors?
Yeah.
They're pretty serious.
I, I knew one.
He, he, he sold his horse, hiswife made him sell his horse a
couple years ago.
A friend of mine.
Oh man.
So now he's gotta be infantryPoor jack.
Anyway.
Stinks.
No, no, no.
He, he's giving it up much like.
Much like you've given up golf,but these, some of these people
own restaurants.
But the thing is a lot of thesepeople do it for the love of it,

(07:44):
and they are very knowledgeableabout it and about the history
of it.
And these recipes come down intheir families.
And when you go to theseindividual stands, the person,
the pit master is there, uh, totalk to.
And also usually it's theirfriends and family as well as
maybe some employees who arelong time employees that are.
We're making this happen.
Mm-hmm.
They're fascinating people totalk to, and I got the chance to

(08:05):
talk to some of those people.
I actually went there with, Itook, uh, our chef Anthony Buco
from stage left.
And we went down and we talkedto all the different people to
really get an insight onbarbecue and the thing about
barbecue, unless you gotta go toa competition or some kind of a
festival like this, becausethat's the only way to really
have Louisiana Barbecue next toMississippi

Mark (08:23):
Barbecue.
Francis.
I'm really looking forward tolistening to that and right,
right after the break we'll beback.
You're listening to theRestaurant guys, Today we're
gonna be talking about barbecue.
Francis went to a great littlefestival in, New York City, to
learn all about barbecue, wherepeople from across the country
come and, and talk q which is,which is the in the know lingo

(08:43):
for barbecue.
You sound a little queeny

Francis (08:46):
when you said that, mark.
Yeah, I'll be honest with you.
So I did have a greatopportunity to go and talk to
these guys.
Uhhuh, I think my feelings arehurt.
I can't be honest, man.
Um, no.
I went, I did have anopportunity to talk to these
guys.
I think they're, they were, Ilearned so much and I had read a
lot about barbecue and I've hada little bit of barbecue in my
life, but I haven't traveledthat.
Widely with barbecue next year.

(09:08):
My goal on the motorcycle goingaround to visit these places
home, ah, I think it'd be agreat trip.
And the nice thing about thiswas it wasn't a barbecue
competition, which is where youdidn't usually see these guys
together.
It was just a fair.
So why don't we listen to, uh,some of the people we talked to
about barbecue let's talk aboutTexas Q and and hear it.
Pardon the pun from the, thehorse's mouth or the pig snout.
Anyway, here we are at theBarbecue Festival in New York,

(09:29):
uh, just about a month ago.
So chef, here we are.
We're standing on, where are we?
We're standing on the corner ofMadison Avenue and 26th Street
and the street's closed off fullof barbecue lovers Q Lovers for
short on qs.
And the point of the barbecuehere is of course that there's
barbecue from North Carolina.
There's barbecue from SouthCarolina, there's barbecue from

(09:51):
from Texas, and barbecue fromNew York.
So we're gonna go in and sample.
We're here early.
We've got our press pass.
This is what you call a perkRestaurant, business Journalism
business.
Full of perks.
Chef, what are your thoughts onbarbecue?

Anthony (10:04):
I love barbecue.
Francis,

Francis (10:06):
what are your thoughts about barbecue in New York?

Anthony (10:09):
It's a different perspective on barbecue, I
guess.
You find that barbecue tends tostay down south and out
southwest of the country.
It's very rare to find it in thenortheast, but it's become more
and more common lately with theaddition of blue smoke and a lot
of the more casual restaurantsalong the Broadway Times Square
area, Virgil's, and some itemslike that.

Francis (10:25):
Well, we got our press pass.
Let us go to the head of theline.
You wanna go and steal somebarbecue from these New Yorkers?
Let's start eating.
All right.
We're standing in front of theSalt Lake Barbecue from
Driftwood, Texas, where thePitmaster is.
Michael Rodriguez.
So we're gonna go try somebrisket sausage in coleslaw,
some Texas q shall we?
Okay.
Alright, the salt lake.
And I would like you to, um,take your coleslaw, which like

(10:47):
unlike any coleslaw I've hadaround here, I dunno if you can
hear that, but it's a cacophonyover here.
Of crunchy, beautiful slaw.
What's in there, man?
Well, the first thing actually Iget is sesame seeds, which
actually are quite interestingin here because this isn't cole
slaw that your mom made.
There's no mayonnaise in here.
There's no real vinegar flavor.
It's very simply cabbage,carrots, some nice sesame seeds

(11:07):
toasted to bring out that nice,rich, nutty flavor.
Just it looks like it sauceswith maybe a little bit of lemon
juice.
Really tasty.
And the acid is from, what doyou think?
I think it's more than lemonjuice.
Is there vinegar in there?
If there's vinegar in here, it'snot a very powerful vinegar.
It's probably like maybe a whitedistilled or something like
that.
It's not a, it's not over thetop.
It's more like a salad than acoleslaw.
It's really delicious.
And the cabbage is, uh, crispand clean too.

(11:28):
Yeah, everything's maintains.
Its, uh, its textural.
Alright, salt.
That gets an a plus for thecoleslaw.
Let's go on to the, uh, sausageand brisket.
This looks like a hearty meal.
We're gonna gain five pounds.
Okay.
Ready?
Hold on.
Here we go.
That's awesome.
Why is it awesome, smoky?
All the flavors are in balance.
The texture of this meat isunbelievably tender.

(11:49):
It's just a perfect amount ofsmoke sauce just rounds
everything off.
You know, it's funny, I thinkthat one of the mistakes that
people make when they try tomake barbecue around here is
they, they go too smoky, youknow, and they throw in a fake,
smoky flavor.
Here, lemme try some of that,Bubba.
Holy cow.
Holy cow.
Oh my goodness.
That's, that's the piece rightthere.
You got the fat line runningthrough it.

(12:09):
You, you know what's funny?
You just said you got the fatline running through it and
that's a piece, but that'sbecause it's been cooked so
long.
Everything's so tender.
The fat melts in your mouth.
Exactly.
Unbelievable.
The fattest labor buddy.
If you go with the sausage,you're gonna have to pick that
up with your pork and just showit in your mouth like a
lollipop.
Awesome.
I mean, it's hard to describethe flavor here.
You got the nice snap from theskin of the sausage, that nice,
juicy, perfectly cooked, mildlysmoky, just subtle flavors all

(12:33):
throughout.
I mean, this sausage is nice.
Well, you know what it's alsohard to describe is the look of
your face.
'cause when it exploded all overyour face, you got barbecue
sauce all over you barbecue's amessy affair.
Be careful everybody.
Mm.
Oh my God.
This food will kill you, butyou'll die happy.
Alright, we, we give, I givethem best, best rating so far.
Hands down.

Mark (12:54):
That was really interesting, Francis.
that was from those folks fromthe Salt Lake in, uh, Texas.
Uh, you know that people though.
Used to eat like that when theyworked on the farms every day.
They'd eat like that at nightor, and they'd have these big
old sausages in the morning andlots of eggs.
And

Francis (13:09):
I just came from Ireland where I had Irish
breakfast every morning.
Yeah, I have a friend visited,visited a friend in Northern
Ireland and we had a northernIrish fry, and then in.
I went to the south and we didthe same kind of thing.
Yeah, listen, you need to workon a farm.
If you have a breakfast likethat, I don't know how you, I
don't know how those people, youknow, to eat like that every day
you'd wind up eating a millionpounds and you know,

Mark (13:27):
but Francis realize that when you're working on a farm
all day, you're burning 4,000calories a day in the sun,
outside back breaking work.
But now that everybody in thesouth is working on a farm, come
on, and I'm not talking aboutright now, I'm talking about
traditionally where, most ofthe.
The income from people in thesouth was people working every
day?
You know

Francis (13:43):
what, I'm just thinking back on as we talk.
Thinking back on being at thebarbecue uhhuh, there weren't a
lot of really selt people behindthe barbecue stands really was a
sort of a look they had aboutthem.
Okay.
When

Mark (13:54):
you're cooking stuff and you're like, ah, not fat enough,
us usually that, that, that, uh,transfers to the human being.

Francis (14:02):
I don't care what they look like.
I just care about the love onthe plate.
We'll be back in a moment andwe're gonna talk with more.
Interesting people fromdifferent parts of America that
are barbecuing from myexperience at the Barbecue
Festival in New York,

Mark (14:11):
Francis, how are things in the city?
Were people nice to each other?
For Jane?

Francis (14:16):
People were loving it.
Mark, it was so much fun to beout on the street and having
barbecue and people with thingsthey love.
Actually, it, it seems

Mark (14:22):
so incongruous Francis.
I know, I know.
Because you got these people whowon't look each other in the
eyes on the subway.
Uhhuh and barbecue is such afamilial kind of

Francis (14:30):
Oh yeah.
People loved it.

Mark (14:31):
there are so many different places and barbecue's
different from so many places.
What do you think is the biggestthing that, that, uh, separates
the, the areas?

Francis (14:38):
Well, you know, it's interesting.
There are two things that reallymake a difference.
One is what you barbecue.
Okay.
First of all, are you barbecuingpork or are you barbecuing beef?
Right?
The other thing to worry aboutis, um.
Are you, uh, is what you put onit is the sauce itself.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, that makes a prettyhuge difference over, over
things.
So, so there are different

Mark (14:56):
types of sauce depending on where you, where you come
from or where you go.

Francis (14:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it's all what binds, whatbinds barbecue is, it's always,
and some people will cookbarbecue, you know, chickens and
Turkey and, and turkeys even,and things like that, but
mm-hmm.
But.
Other people usually barbecuefattier meats'cause that long
slow cooking process tenderizesthem and gives them a lot of
smoke flavor and it's a smokeyflavor that comes over time and
with great care.
So let's go back and listen tosome other folks who know a lot

(15:20):
more about it than I do.
Talk about what makes barbecuedifferent place to place.
Alright.
Uh, here we're talking with RonBlasingame from the whole hog
cafe.
And where is the whole Hog cafe?
We're in Little Rock, Arkansas.

Ron (15:31):
Uh, we've really enjoyed it.
Hospitality has been wonderfuland, uh,

Speaker 3 (15:34):
so all they, I've been

Ron (15:34):
here three or four times on business.
It's the first time I've ever,you know, been able to come up
here and play.
Uh, the main thing that'simportant to us about the sauce.
Is that we have six sauces onour table at the restaurant.
And the reason is, uh, if you goto the East coast, Florida,
South Carolina, they, uh, theylike a, um, a mustard sauce.
Uh, you may have noticed in thenews here in the last couple
weeks, there's been, uh, aconflict going on in North

(15:55):
Carolina about, uh, LexingtonBarbecue versus, um,

Francis (15:59):
no, what's that?

Ron (16:00):
West Coast?
Well, what it is, the state'spretty much split and divided
that, uh, uh, one side of thestate, like, say, uh.
Vinegar and water based, and theother side of the state likes a
tomato, ketchup based sauce.

Francis (16:10):
This becomes a serious rip.

Ron (16:12):
It has.
I mean, it's already gone allthe way to the legislature,

Francis (16:14):
has it really?
That's

Ron (16:15):
exactly right.
Yeah.
You

Francis (16:16):
people take it, you barbecue very seriously.
Yeah.
So

Ron (16:18):
we do our, uh, well that's in North Carolina.
It's not in Arkansas.
Right, right.
But we do, uh, but barbecuepeople do take it very
seriously.
You're right.
we have a, a mustard sauce forthe Carolina people.
We have a tomato sauce for likethe Mid-South.
And then we have, a light and aheavy molasses sauce for the
Texas and, uh.
Kansas City people, Kansas Citypeople love that sweet, sweet
molasses flavor.

Francis (16:38):
Lemme tell you something, I'm in the restaurant
business as well as having theradio show and, um, nothing
brings people together or makespeople more passionate and love
or hate than barbecue.
What is so special aboutbarbecue that makes people so
maniacal?

Ron (16:50):
I have no idea other than the fact that probably, uh, I
think a lot of people perceivethemselves as, you know, and
from the backyard cook aspect ofit.
You know, being, being able tocook the best barbecue, gorilla,
best chicken, or whatever, youknow.
And I guess it just kind ofcarries over.
People seem to, come into ourplace.
They bring in people from out oftown.
They just like showing us off.
I mean, you know, this, this isour barbecue and I guess they

(17:12):
think it's better than whereverthe other people are from.
It's better than their barbecue.

Francis (17:16):
Well, I'll tell you, if I ever make it anywhere near
Arkansas, we serve and come toyour place.
Well, I appreciate that.
Come see us.
Thanks for talking to me.

Ron (17:20):
Thank you.
Thanks.
Take care.
Alright, thanks.
Y'all.
Come back now.

Mark (17:24):
We will.
Francis, y'all come back.
Now you hear.
Was that actually a quote fromthe Beverly Hillbillies?
No.
Or was that what he actuallymeant to say?
No, the Beverly Hillbillies werecoding his grandfather.
That was, that's beautiful, man.
Beautiful.
You gotta respect the heck outof a state that will send
legislation.
To the house to be passed todecide what kind of barbecue

(17:47):
sauce, tomato versus vinegar,

Francis (17:48):
baby.
That's very important to peoplein North Carolina.
That's beautiful.
You have no idea how seriousthese people are.
Okay.
I'm pretty serious about food,but this is, this is amazing
stuff.
Talking to these individualsabout it and they're really
serious about their, theirdifferences and I think it's
sort of great in, in this dayand age to still have regional
differences.
'cause so much of what we see isthe same coast to coast.

(18:09):
Mm-hmm.
These people are about.
Local traditions.
In a lot of cases, these recipescame from grandparents and
great-grandparents on their,their secrets.
They're really, really secrets.
Like the owner will come in tomake the sauce and none of the
employees

Mark (18:21):
are, are allowed to know how it's made.
Mm-hmm.
Well, I love that there's such athing as Kansas City Barbecue
and, and I love that there'ssuch a thing as Texas barbecue.
Yeah.
You know, each, each of theseand, and North Carolina is
trying to create a singlebarbecue because it's split in,
in it's very important downthere.
It's great stuff.
I love it.

Francis (18:36):
Yeah.
It really, and, and again.
The quality of the food isreally, really paramount.
Elaine Roar from, uh, Yasu City,Mississippi, I also did talk to
about this and, her husbandGary, and she started a small
business when he lost his jobdoing something else.
And this is a love that they'repursuing.
So let's go listen to them.

Elaine (18:51):
I'm Elaine Roark.
my husband Gary Roark isactually the pit master for Ubon
Barbecue, and we are from YasuCity, Mississippi.
Yasu, Yasu.
And, um, Ubon was actuallyGary's father's name and the
barbecue sauce was Gary'sgrandfather's recipe, Uhhuh, and

(19:14):
just kind of handed down.
Mm-hmm.
From generation to generation,and we have, um, we started
cooking on the Memphis and MayCircuit to just introduce our
barbecue sauce to differentpeople.

Francis (19:28):
What's the Memphis and May Circuit?

Elaine (19:30):
Um, of course, Memphis in May is the World Championship
barbecue contest.

Francis (19:38):
I see.

Elaine (19:38):
there are probably about a thousand teams that compete
annually.
On the circuit and, um, we dothat on a regular basis, and
have had the privilege ofactually winning first place at
mi.

Francis (19:54):
How does Mississippi Barbecue differ from Texas?
Barbecue differ from SouthCarolina Barbecue, Florida
Barbecue.
What sets Mississippi Barbecueapart?

Elaine (20:03):
We typically do pork and Texas is big on beef.
Brisket, uh, chicken and they dosome pork.
And of course in Mississippi wedo a sweet, usually tomato-based
barbecue sauce.
Mm-hmm.
And that's usually the, themajor difference in.

(20:24):
The different regions is thedifferent kind of barbecue
sauce,

Francis (20:27):
but the, what my friend and I were just commenting on in
this barbecue is that it seemsto be that you haven't cooked it
as far as long.
It's not completely fallenapart, and it actually retains a
nice moisture and texture.
Is that sort of, is that sort ofon purpose?

Elaine (20:39):
Oh, that's definitely on purpose.
That's the way that, uh, goodpool pork should be served.
It should not be mushy.
It, uh, you just have to cook itto that certain point and know
that it's ready.

Francis (20:52):
So you wanna cook it to the point where you can pull it
off the bone, where it's notfalling off the bone.

Elaine (20:55):
Exactly.
And it's not mushy.

Francis (20:58):
And it's not mushy.
Remember that if you're inMississippi, you get mushy
barbecue.
You go up to the person and yousee you're standing that back.

Elaine (21:03):
That's exactly right.

Francis (21:05):
Thanks for talking to us.

Elaine (21:05):
You're welcome.
And of course we have a, um,restaurant in Yasi City and, um,
you, it's called Ubon Naturally.
After the sauce,

Francis (21:15):
what were you doing before you owned a restaurant?

Elaine (21:17):
Gary worked for a company that after 30 years
filed bankruptcy and a lot ofthe employees lost jobs and he
had catered for years.
It was just natural that hewould've opened a restaurant.
And of course, I myself, I'm anurse and I do home care, so I
just try to.

(21:38):
Support him whenever, you know,he's out here at functions like
this.

Francis (21:43):
Well, I have bad news for you, in addition to having
the radio show, I'm, I'm arestaurateur.
I own a restaurant, and, andAnthony over here is our
executive chef, and we're hereto both tell you that only crazy
people enter the restaurantbusiness.
Oh.
And if you're not crazy when yougo in, I'm afraid your husband's
lost cause

Elaine (21:55):
Oh, listen, I was not coming this week because I had
some prior engagements and Idecided.
He has gone crazy and I bettercomb with him this week because,
uh, that is exactly right.

Francis (22:09):
And if we do have crazy mississippians in New York, they
should be here with their wives.
So we're all glad that you came.

Elaine (22:13):
Thank you very much.
And you can find our website

Francis (22:16):
I'll check it out this afternoon.
Thank you so much for getting usour food and talking to us and
being so kind.

Mark (22:22):
So Francis, uh, from what I just heard, this woman, Elaine
Rourke, is afraid to leave herhusband alone in New York City.

Francis (22:29):
Yeah.
You know, I don't know.
The whole thing's scary.
I don't know the whole thing'sscary.
I thought her accent wasfabulous.
Memphis in May.
Thousand people participate inMemphis in may thousand teams,
and she won first place.
That's a beautiful thing.
That's pretty cool.
It's,

Mark (22:41):
that's obviously the food must be spectacular.

Francis (22:44):
Well, it was.
The food really was spectacular.
But did you not love thataccent?
Wouldn't, yeah.
Well, how, how do you not

Mark (22:48):
love that accent?
Wouldn't you love to have thataccent?
Little southern bell?
No.
No.

Francis (22:54):
You would sound a little bit ridiculous.
Yes.
I'm, listen, when we come back,we're gonna talk to Big Bob
Gibson.
And we got a lot of greatinterviews from Barbecuers from
around the country.
And one of the most interestingwas a guy named Big Bob Gibson,
who is from, Decatur, Alabama.
Well, we're gonna talk to himabout recipes that have been,
longstanding recipes in hisfamily since 1925.
Some real history here.
So let's listen to what, uh, bigBob had to say.

(23:15):
I am Francis Shot.
How are you?
I'm

Carolyn (23:17):
sorry.
I'm Carolyn Macklemore with BigBob Gibson Barbecue.
We're from Decatur, Alabama andwe have barbecue pull pork.
We're six time world championwith that pork.
Admit, it's in May and we cookit every day at our two
restaurants in Decatur.
How long did it take to cookback?
Well, this was on.
16 to 20 hours.
Some of the shoulders were 18pounds, some were closer to 20,

(23:38):
so about an hour a pound.
So give or take a little bit

Francis (23:41):
and somebody pins that the whole time.

Carolyn (23:43):
Uh, well our cookers are real good at holding the
temperature, but um, we cookedthem at 2 25 all night and the
security guard didn't have tocall us one time to tell us that
it was either hot or cold.
So, and what are

Francis (23:55):
the sauces do we have here to put on our barbecue?
Well.

Carolyn (23:58):
This is our championship Red Uhhuh.
Uh, we won Memphis May with itin 97 Uhhuh.
We won Kansas City at theAmerican Royal with it.
Best sauce on the planet in 98and Memphis May again in 99.
What

Speaker 3 (24:11):
makes it great?

Carolyn (24:11):
It's just a sauce that really compliments our pork.

Francis (24:15):
And what are the other options You saw some

Carolyn (24:17):
people like it a little hotter.
Okay.
It's the same base recipe with alittle habanera and, uh, just
adds a little heat because we doserve it in the restaurant and
general public doesn't like it.
Too hot.
And then we have a mustard saucefor some of those Carolina
people.
You know that one little mustardin there, Uhhuh Uhhuh.
And uh, it's real good.
Uh huh And we have a chickensauce that dates back to the

(24:38):
1925.
My husband's grandfather startedour restaurant.

Francis (24:41):
Well, I wanna thank you for coming all the way up here
to, to share real barbecue withus New Yorkers.
You don't know much about it.

Carolyn (24:46):
We love it and y'all have been very gracious to us.
It's a pleasure to come up hereand serve New Yorkers.

Francis (24:53):
Terrific.
Well, we're gonna go eat some ofyour food and spread the word.
Alright, chef, what do you seehere?
Looking at some, uh, pulledpork, some baked beans, and some
championship barbecue sauce.
Alright, now we're throwing alittle bit of sauce on here on
our potato roll.
Chef, you have the honors.
That barbecue sauce makes thatdish.
It makes that pork sing.
Yeah, the pork is kind of plain.
and I'm surprised, surprised howmild it is.

(25:14):
But lemme tell you something,this is a tough cut of meat.
It's beautiful and tender.
Yeah, it's smokey and I'm not abaked beans guy first.
My mom used to make really sweetand molasses baked beans.
Boston baked beans.
Exactly.
This ain't them.
Nah, these are uh, these arenice.
I think this is what she wastrying for when she was making
the Boston baked beans.
That's big Bob Gibson.

(25:35):
Chris Lilly's, the pit masterfrom Decatur, Alabama.
Ur, Alabama.
Should we go get some morebarbecue?
Yeah, definitely.
You see, do you see that I'mpicking up a bit of a southern
accent'cause I like that woman'saccent so much.
I've noticed it's quite a, it's,it's, it's quite flattering on
you, Francis.
You should see Mount St.
Patrick's Day.
I pick up a lovely brogue.
You ready for Mark Q?
Let's go Mark Q.

Mark (25:55):
Francis, after listening to that segment, I just have to
say Decatur and Hara.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
That's

Mark (26:02):
unbelievable.
She was great.
Oh, she's awesome.
I love that.
Oh, it was great.
The whole thing was great.
Um, you know, one of the thingsthat I think that is great
about.
Uh, getting to meet all thesepeople from all across the
country is, you really do seethat, that it is a really big
country with lots of differentpeople and lots of different
kind.
Yeah.
And most of'em are nicer thanpeople from New Jersey.
Certainly nicer than we are.

(26:23):
That's for sure.
I, you know, man, I love thatyou're talking about your mom's
baked beans.
Oh, God, I, I love that you'retalking about'em as if she
didn't open a can and pour'eminto a pot and warm'em up.
Mm.
That was sort of the end,

Francis (26:33):
but, but that was a little improvement.
My mom is outside listeningarea.
I'm sorry.
She doesn't know how to use theinternet.
I love her dearly.
And she provided for her familyevery night and we had a good
warm meal seven nights a week.
Mm-hmm.
For a long time.
You know, one of the

Mark (26:52):
things I never understood about, about barbecue though,
and, and where I think theycould, they could take a lesson
from New Yorkers is what exactlywhat you were talking about.
Those soft potato rolls that youbread, bread.
Because they can't make bread inthe south.
Gimme a ni right, because it'stoo humid.
Ugh.
Gimme a nice crunchy piece ofbread.
Of bread with, with my, mybarbecue and I'll be

Francis (27:11):
Jules.
Yeah, no, there's really noexcuse for, and every place is
the same where they do barbecue.
They just don't, they do beanswell, they do slaw well.
They do sauce well.
Bread is abominable And Francis.

Mark (27:20):
Yeah.
I'm much more pleasant when I'mjus

Francis (27:24):
I'm much more fun to be around.
I remember after our firstrestaurant review, they used the
word luscious in their review,and, and, and you adopted that
nickname for about a year.
I enjoyed being called Luscious.
You're a 330 pound, six foot twoinch guy named Luscious.
That was scary.
That was really scary at thetime.
Well, I, I have to say no.
I, I did find that.

(27:44):
Everybody there was really,really nice and very
informative, and those otherside dishes were very important.
There is no side dish.
Every dish counts.
Everything in the plate counts.
Exactly.
And we're gonna go out and we'regonna go to the south and help
them with their bread.
Mark.
I know you're a big meat fan.
Oh, I love my meat.
And I know you love to roast apig as well, which is not quite
barbecue.

Mark (28:01):
Well, you were around those first couple years when,
when I, when I roasted my first,

Francis (28:05):
Yeah.
We've been friends

Mark (28:05):
forever.
I'm kind of sick of you allAfter 20 years.
My first trip into the meatmarket Yeah.
Was to pick fraternity eventSigma Pi fraternity, Sigma Pi
fraternity.
We went, I, I went with a guy bythe name of Casey Fowler and we
went to the, to the meatdistrict in New York City
because that was the only placewe could get a whole pig uhhuh
to do a barbecue uhhuh.
And we used to have an eventevery year was a big barbecue,

(28:26):
hundreds and hundreds of people.
We'd roast a pig all day longand literally we'd go the day
before and Casey at four o'clockin the morning, be there.
Digging in the driveway, dig abig hole in the driveway, fill
it with charcoal, and startroasting this pig at five
o'clock in the morning.
Well, the first pig was a littlebit too big.
Yeah.
Okay.
So instead of eating at 6, 7, 8o'clock Yeah, it was like two

(28:48):
o'clock in the morning.
And now we had a party, so therewas a lot of drinking going,
going around.
And Casey's sitting out there infront of his, in a lawn chair
guarding his pig.
Don't touch that pig man.
It's not done yet.
And literally sitting there andpeople, drunk, people trying to
knee little steal little bits ofthe pig off the, off the

(29:08):
roaster.

Francis (29:09):
It was very tribal.
I think you fraternity guys havea very tribal thing going on.
Oh god.
And when he finally gave the goahead,

Mark (29:15):
it was carnage.
It was just How

Francis (29:17):
long did that little.
That sucker instead of chance.
Huh?
That sucker

Mark (29:20):
lasted about four minutes with, with 150 idiots at 2:00 AM
after.
Drink it all night.

Francis (29:26):
Well, you know, actually we have some more
interviews with some reallyinteresting people, from around
the country.
we were gonna talk with KenCallahan, who started.
Barbecue he's the executive cheffor Danny Meyer at, at Blue
Smoke in New York City.
In New York City.
Mm-hmm.
Which really brought barbecue toManhattan, which I think is a
very fabulous thing.
Uh, I also, we're also gonnatalk to Ed Mitchell, who
barbecues whole hog, which is avery difficult way to barbecue.

(29:47):
It's just so, it sounds like youbarbecue the entire pig.
And so, and then the, thechopped product that you get as
a result of that.
is the most complex, one of themost complex meats I've ever
had, and it's very hard tobarbecue whole hog.
We're gonna talk to a woman fromSmokey Os in St.
Louis, Missouri.
Uh, and she's gonna talk to usabout grilled snoot.
I would tell you what grilledsnoot is, but you should listen
to the rest of the show.
Yeah, we should wait for that.

(30:07):
The grilled snoot segment's myfavorite.
Please do stay, stay around.
You

Mark (30:10):
there was so much interesting stuff that came
outta these, these interviewsthat you and I decided that,
that we easily could make thisinto two shows because, of all
the interesting characters and,and almost caricatures that,
that you gotta speak with.

Francis (30:22):
And, and these people are really passionate about
their food and they have somereally good points.
And you know, the proof is inthe pudding as it were.
Or the proof is in the bar.
Is in the QQ.
He short for barbecue.
Um, because these people thenserved us food and it was really
they, this guy Ed Mitchell fromNorth Carolina had an 18 wheeler
bringing up his barbecues.
I love it.
Love it.
An 18 wheeler, they looked likelittle battleships.
Well, I think, I think we're alittle arrogant here in the
northeast sometimes to thinkthat, that we have the, you

(30:44):
know, the only American food,there are all different kinds of
American food being servedacross the country.
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I think that what's different isnot only that they're, that it's
different from here, is thatthey're different from each
other and these people arereally passionate about it.
So when we come back, we'regonna talk to a few of these
folks about barbecue and you'regonna hear me eat some barbecue.
That's more exciting than itsounds.
Stay tuned.
You're listening to theRestaurant Guys, central Street.
It better be Central Jersey1450.

(31:09):
New York City had a great littlefestival, that Francis and the
chef went to to taste all kindsof different q from all over the
country.
But one of the, The interestingplaces where you can get Q now
is New York City, And it's veryexciting because, you know,
barbecue is not, Indigenous toNew York.
Barbecue is indigenous to a lotof different places and you
know, there's, there's, in NorthCarolina, the state, it went to

(31:30):
the state legislature becausethe west.
of North Carolina likes barbecuesauce with tomatoes in the east
North Carolina, like vinegar andwater sauce.
So they're, they're battling itout in a legislature.
Right.
Literally went to the statelegislature.
I love it.
I love, I love when people arepassionate about their food, but
I love it.
And there's a lot of barbecue inNew York up in Harlem now.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, but the big splash downtownbarbecue is Blue Smoke owned by
Danny Meyer.

(31:51):
Danny Meyer owns Union SquareCafe.
He owns Gram Tavern, some, someof New York City's best
restaurants.
And that he's doing barbecue is,is a really big deal, I think.
And his great Ur and KenCallahan is his, is his
executive chef at a restaurantcalled Blue Smoke.
And they are really making wavesin the barbecue world and here
in New York.
And what's more interestingabout this guy is you can go and
try his food.
So let's listen to what he hasto say.

Ken Callahan (32:12):
Uh, Kenny Callahan, executive Chef
Pitmaster or Blue Smoke, NewYork City.
Now

Francis (32:16):
you've kind of blazed new trails with blue smoke, I
mean for like a big productionbarbecue.
Serious barbecue in Manhattan.
Sure.
Um, how hell do you wind updoing that?

Ken Callahan (32:25):
Well, you know, we originally, uh, intended to, to
open up a joint, you know, justa, a barbecue joint.
And then, uh, you know, and Ihad come from a fine dining
background, you know, I was theexecutive sous chef at Union
Square Cafe for the last fiveyears of my career over there.
And, uh, so, I mean, I wasreally running the place over
there and that's where my rootswere, was in fine dining.
So, you know, I just startedmessing around with trying to

(32:47):
get the barbecue as best as wecould be, and then really
surrounded with really highquality ingredients and, uh,
really kind of raise the levelof, of all the food or
surrounding the barbecue becauseas you know, in, typically in
barbecue joints around thecountry, you have your brisket.
If you're in Texas and it'sbeans and slaw and you and one
bottle beer and it's wrangled,right?
One bottle beer and usually oneof those side ditches doesn't,

(33:09):
it's, you know, it's bad, youknow?
Right.
I'm just trying to bring thelevel.
Of all the ingredients and foodaround the barbecue up to a
different level to give peoplemore options.
And you know, we're in New YorkCity, they're uh, much more
sophisticated pallets here.
Yep.
And people respond to it.

Francis (33:23):
How do you barbecue in New York City?
How do you have a pit?
How do you make that work?
What makes barbecue work that'sdifferent than other people are
sort of the pretenders to thethrone.

Ken Callahan (33:32):
Well, you have to have the equipment, you have to
have the ability to be able toproduce good smoked quality meat
uhhuh, which, you know, that'swhat, if you don't buy the
equipment, you don't invest init.
And it's very difficult to do inNew York City with all the, uh,
codes and the fire restrictionsand regulations and all of that.
Uh, so

Francis (33:50):
if the special air, uh, scrubbing equipment for the, for
the

Ken Callahan (33:53):
ignition.
Yep, exactly.
And, uh, and, and, and it's veryexpensive stuff.
And if, and if you, if you don'tspend the money, then you're
gonna be cheating.
You're gonna either gonna besteaming brazing or boiling your
ribs with some kind of liquidsmoke or other marinade.
And, uh, I mean, you can clearlytell the difference as soon as
you see the meat and you biteinto it.
That stuff is either brown orgray on the inside was once you

(34:16):
smoke with, uh, with wood.
Then it automatically gets thatred hue to it.
Right.
And that's the smoke rig.

Francis (34:22):
And did you, now, do you, um, you smoke with wood
exclusively in, in at boostsmoke?
I mean, how, how, how's yourequipment work at Boost smoke?

Ken Callahan (34:28):
I mean, is it gas

Francis (34:29):
assisted?

Ken Callahan (34:29):
What, how does it work?
It's gas assisted.
So what what'll happen is, well,a load, my, uh, my pit, I'll
fire it up with wood and the gaswill come in to ignite the wood,
and then basically the wood willjust burn down the coals.
And then finishes off, uh, onthe coals, just like that.
Well, I gotta tell you, made alot of waves in New York.
I've been to blue smoke, andthat's really pretty enjoyable.
But it's nice to be out here onthe street as well.
Well, it's an unbelievable day.

(34:51):
I mean, you see the way NewYorkers respond to barbecue
here.
I mean, I can't even imagine howmany thousands of people are
here today.
I mean, it's gotta be, gotta be20, 30,000 people here just
today, right?

Francis (35:01):
Yeah, there are.
And some of'em are really goodlooking.
I don't know if you noticed.

Ken Callahan (35:05):
No, I

Francis (35:05):
haven't noticed.
But evidently good looking womenlike barbecue and I like so I
like barbecue too.
Exactly.
I like barbecue.
Good looking women too.
Thanks a lot, man.

Mark (35:13):
So, Francis, you went to this barbecue.
I thought you were working, notworking it.
What was up with that?
I was so playing it, mark.
I had the microphone with theCTC flag.
There are a bunch of interviewsthat we're not gonna get to hear
or No, but I got some numbers.
Hey man, girls who like fatgirls who like flavor.
I'm a fat guy actually there.

(35:36):
You were probably a skinny guy.
I was actually.
But uh, you know, we were talk,you were talking to Ken Callahan
there.
When did it make you upset?
If I tell you that I interviewedsomeone without him putting the
microphone on, I'm recording.
I would believe it for sure.
That's a lie, but it's a nicefantasy.
So anything we, we were talkingabout two different things
though that I, that I want toget into.
The first is, I, I think that alot of times people, uh, don't

(35:58):
use as, as good of ingredientsaround their barbecue and, and
they spend so much time focusingon the barbecue itself, that,
that other things fall by thewayside.
And, and we talked a little bitabout bread and some, some of
the other side dishes aren't asgood as they could be.
One of the things that KenCallahan said was, he is a chef.
He, he is a.
Trained in other areas and thenspent a lot of time learning
about barbecue to be able to dobarbecue and getting the right

(36:20):
equipment and having the rightsupport from Danny Meyer.
Right.
Um.
So he is able to do thosethings.
Remember, most of these peoplewho are making barbecue are
making the barbecue the way thatwas handed down to them from
generation to generation.
Sure.
And so, you know what?
The rolls didn't get into thegenerational mix.
Well that's, you know, and hementioned liquid smoke.
Okay.
No true barbecue or ever woulduse liquid smoke.
Liquid smoke is, is just what itsounds like.

(36:41):
It's something you rub on themeat in liquid form in.
So it pretends that it wassmoke.
Well, and when you go tocorporate places, I mean, that's
what you're getting, right?
Unfortunately.
And my favorite interview at allcame from the people at Smokey
O's in St.
Louis, Missouri, because, andtheir specialty there is snoot
and I didn't know what Snootwas, but I do now.
And you're going to, in just asecond,

Francis (37:03):
your place is Smokey O's.
Yes, sir.
That's a pretty good name.
Where?
Where's Smokey O's?

Speaker 9 (37:08):
Located in St.
Louis, Missouri at 1545 NorthBroadway.

Francis (37:12):
We're a long way from Missouri.
Is it worth the trip?

Speaker 9 (37:16):
It increases our, visibility toward the product
that we serve.
And the, uh, Snoop is becoming anationally known product where
previously it was only known in,uh, St.
Louis.
What's Snu?
Snu is the anterior prolongationof the pig's nose uhhuh.

Francis (37:35):
And that's, that's your specialty?

Speaker 9 (37:37):
Well, it's one of our specialties, actually.
Barbecue is our specialty.
We barbecue anything from, uh,from the pig's nose to the
actual, um, from the root to theTudor.
Our process in preparing thesnoot is actually a secret, but
we do not grill it.
We do not.
Fry it.
The process that we use, we havetaken all of the fat out of that

(38:00):
snu.
We also have dehydrated it, sothere is no cholesterol in the
snu.
It's a true delicacy that is,uh, really fat free.
And all of our customers, theybecome addicted.
Once they try it, they becomeaddicted to soup.
We can't keep it in therestaurant.

Francis (38:19):
It's fat free barbecue.

Speaker 9 (38:21):
Exactly.

Francis (38:22):
It's the only barbecue that's good for you.

Speaker 9 (38:24):
Okay, thank you.
And when you're in St.
Louis, come to Smokey O's if youcrave barbecue, we have it.
Come get it.

Mark (38:32):
Francis, did she really say from the ruder to the tutor?

Speaker (38:36):
Yeah.

Mark (38:38):
Can I tell you, the first time I heard that tape, I, I was
listening to it.
I was sitting next to Jennifer.
I was like, Jennifer, rewindthat.
I think she said, I think shesaid.
We roast the whole pig from therooter to the tud, from the root
to the Tudor.
It's funny'cause she was alittle bit rigid until then.
She sounded a little tense.
Yeah.
And then as soon as she saidfrom the Rooter to the Tudor,
that's she loosened right up.

(38:59):
That's her line.
I'd say.
I love it.
And when she said, we'll,barbecue anything, I think she
meant it.
I was a little scared, you know?
And all these years that I'vebeen calling you a snoot, I
didn't know what I was, what Iwas calling you.
But now I do.
Well, everybody out there, theanterior prolongation of the
nose, Francis, that's you of thepage's nose.
Well, if any of you wanna trySnoop, we're not gonna be
serving it at staged leftanytime soon.
So you're gonna have to go downto St.

(39:20):
Louis, Missouri, have theaddress.
Hold on the line.
We have it.
Come and get it.
That's like, that's like myfavorite.
That's, that's, that's myfavorite line of all I want.
I wanna get a bumper stickerthat says that.
So you're listening to therestaurant guys, we have it.
Come and get it every day from11:00 AM to noon and we'll be
back after the news.
Talking more with Ed MitchellLu's whole hog barbecue in North
Carolina, That, that was abeautiful segment.

(39:40):
We just did.
Francis, for those of you whojust tuned in, we are doing a
segment on, we're doing a showtoday on barbecue and we just
had the most beautiful interviewof all times.
You, you gotta play that onemore time.
You're gonna hear just this,that one.
Snitch it.
Play it.
One more time for it, please.
That is, that is the best 10seconds of the Restaurant guys
radio show.
So far

Francis (39:55):
ever.
Okay.
Alright.
You ready?
Here it goes.

Speaker 9 (39:58):
Barbecue is our specialty.
We barbecue anything from, uh,from the pig's nose to the
actual, um, from the rooter tothe t.

Mark (40:09):
That was beautiful.
Oh, she's great.
That was beautiful.
From the router to the Tudor.
Jeez.
Everybody know what the routeris?
Yeah.
And I don't need to explain theother, explain the other one.
Do I?
Oh my God, that's hysterical.
I gotta tell you something.
That's, that's going torestaurant guys Hall of Fame
right there.
Snoot is an acquired taste too.

(40:30):
I'll tell you something.
Is it how you gotta tell me?
How was the snoot?
Uh, that woman was very nice.
Fat free snoot.
She was very nice.
Anyway, it's not gonna be aspecial at stage left anytime
we're, we're not doing that.
But uh, I have to say the otherstuff, it's not snoot snoot.
It's not good.
It's not just good.

(40:50):
It's good for you.
It's good for you.
We got, I got there.
New tagline.
You know, it reminds me that we,we have it come and get it.
Reminds me of the Brock when Iwas working in a supermarket as
a young kid, I, you know, thoseBrock's candies that you used to
buy?
Sure.
The first bulk candy that youcould get.
Yeah, I used to love those.
And, uh, they, the Brocks fa theBrock's logo was on the side of
every box as we'd pack them out.
You ready for the Brocks logo?
Yeah.

(41:10):
Uh, candy is good food.
Eat some every day.
I love it.
I hope they didn't pay somebodya lot to come up with.
I, well, I, you know, the bestpart of that last segment we
just did was it really soundedlike she was trying to do a
commercial.
Oh yeah, she was, and I let her,'cause it was a great one she
got and, and it's good from, andit's from the router to the
Tudor.
That's good.

(41:31):
And there it was commercialover, uh, that's it.
Commercial.
Commercial went right intocomedy.
It was, but no, I think that'spart of the commercial.
Well, you know, we, I haveanother guy that, that, that I
talked to, a guy named EdMitchell from North Carolina.
This guy.
I think he's my favorite overeverybody that was there.
This guy, uh, came up from NorthCarolina with his own 18 wheeler
filled with the barbecue pits.

(41:52):
Mm-hmm.
To do whole hog barbecue.
So what he basically does, hetakes your home oil tank.
Cuts it in half and puts a seain it.
Um, and the coals go on thebottom and the pig goes on the
top.
He was splitting the pigs.
He was roasting'em half at atime.
That's his version of cheating.
Right?
Um, but he does So it takes 16hours instead Exactly.
Instead of 25.
But in, but in, but in NorthCarolina, he does the whole hog

(42:15):
together.
And what's interesting aboutit's, he takes the meat of the
whole hog.
So you get all the differentparts of the, you know, the, the
bacon and the belly and thetenderloin and the trotters and
the whole thing.
And he, and you know, he doesn'tstart like different pieces,
that's all cut and scraped outtathe pig in it.
And then this, you get a bit ofthe skin and it's unbelievably
complex.

(42:36):
It's really unbelievablycomplex.
And literally four starrestaurant in Manhattan served
this man's barbecue as acomponent on a dish.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So he is the real deal.
That's what you're saying.
Oh, man.
And to see this, you know,convoy of things that he'd roll
out of his own 18 wheeler andall going and all being, uh,
attended with Loving Care.
It's really great.
Why don't we hear what Mr.
Mitchell has to say?

(42:56):
Love it.
Ed Mitchell from Ed Mitchell'sin North Carolina.

Francis (43:02):
All right, well, we're here, we're talking with Ed
Mitchell of Mitchell's Barbecue,uh, in Wilson, North Carolina.
And you've come all the way fromWilson, North Carolina to New
York City.
How's trip?
Oh, trip's been great.
Yeah.
Yep.

Ed Mitchell (43:12):
Trip's been great.
Beautiful day.

Francis (43:14):
And how you be hospitable or nasty like they
say.

Ed Mitchell (43:16):
Oh, the great, great.
Very hospitable.
I gotta say, I,

Francis (43:20):
I'm looking at a line right now of hundreds of
hundreds of people of NewYorkers standing on line.
On Madison Avenue to wait for EdMitchell's barbecue.
How does that make you feel?

Ed Mitchell (43:27):
Great.
Super great.
As a matter of fact, uh, theseguys have adopted me as their
home guy, so, and I'm very proudof that.

Francis (43:34):
Okay, so now all the barbecue, do you have all the
pulled bargain everyth?
This is whole hog you did today.
Yeah.

Ed Mitchell (43:38):
I'm the only crazy guy that come up here and cook
30 whole hogs,

Francis (43:40):
and that's something.
Well, now where did you cook?
30 whole hogs in New York.
Where'd you have the equipment?
You truck it in yourself?

Ed Mitchell (43:45):
Oh, no.
Those 10 cook out there, my man,we rotate 10 around.

Francis (43:50):
I didn't notice that before.
You have a, you have a like aconvoy.
That's right.
Looks like 10 battleships outhere.
That's what we got.
They call hog.

Ed Mitchell (43:56):
That's what we got.
And we brought'em up on my 18wheeler transporter, which is
over there.
And, uh, each one of'em have tobe individual chambers because
each one has to cook separatelyfor 12 or 14 hours.

Francis (44:08):
Alright, I'm impressed.
Okay.
Okay.
Now what, what would you saymakes Eastern Barbecue
different?
We're asking everybody to sortthe same question.
What makes Eastern Barbecuedifferent from Texas Barbecue
different from regionalbarbecues around America?

Ed Mitchell (44:18):
Uh, according to the history of barbecue, the
North Carolina has beenconsidered somewhat the cradle,
and it started out cooking awhole hog.
And as it moved around atvarious other locations, then
people began to separatedifferent portions that they
were comfortable cooking, butreally it originally started out
cooking that whole hog.
Hey Chef, why don't you describeto people what we're looking at.
Looking at what is this An oiltank?

(44:39):
Oil oil

Francis (44:39):
tank.

Ed Mitchell (44:40):
What?
Converted into a chamber.
A whole oil tank.
Yep.
Convert into a chamber becausethe whole heats very well.
And oh my God,

Francis (44:50):
say, oh my God.
Oh my God.
But you, we have a split pigroasting over is this charcoal?
Underneath

Ed Mitchell (44:57):
charcoal and we have a blend of heat and wood.
Oh,

Francis (44:59):
smell that wood.
Yeah.
Smell the pig in the wood.
You can still see the USDA stampon the, on the shoulder of the
pig.
That is amazing.

Speaker (45:06):
Yeah.

Francis (45:07):
Everything by the head hoof on, that's right.
Two halves of a gutted pig.
Yep.
And look, its name was Mary.
It's got the collar around hisneck.
Okay.
Alright.
Now you got this whole hog, it'sall cooked all the way through
and you just pull all the meat.
I mean, how do you, do youhandle different parts of the
pig differently or what?

Ed Mitchell (45:21):
No, no, no.
We, once he's done, we take himall up and then we put him on
the chopping block and weactually can hold the meat right
out.
And then we go through achopping technique that gives
you that blend of flavors thatwe were talking about, which
blends all the differentportions of the animal, like the
tender.
He, the chef knows what I'mtalking about, the parts to make
the bacon out of, and thesausage.
And then we blend it togetherand give you a taste of what it

(45:43):
really supposed to taste like.

Francis (45:44):
Wow.
That's pretty amazing.
Thanks a lot Mr.
Mitchell.
Quite welcome.
Thank you.
Let's go try some of Mr.
Mitchell's food.
This just looks different now.
We just got talking to Mr.
Mitchell about why his pork isdifferent.
'cause he does a whole hog andthen he basically blends up all
the different parts of the hog.
It means.
You know, some of the lessappetizing stuff.
Some of the more appetizingstuff.
There were definitely feet on

Speaker 15 (46:03):
those pigs, so they wound up somewhere.
So they're in here, man.
Exactly.
You know, it's funny to watch.
I mean, he is, it's almost likewatching an artist at work.
He's taking apart this wholeanimal and just putting together
this blend of meat that's just,it's delightful.
I mean, there's no other way todescribe it.
It looks different than all theother barbecue you've had here.
Yeah.
Well, it's funny to listen tohim describe his chopping method
when they take the pig apart assoon as they probably pull the
skin back and, and they start tokind of combine the meats and

(46:25):
the different areas of the pigto make up this blend.
It's funny, you had justmentioned the word pate before
and it, it has almost thattexture.
It's unique and it's Oh, sotasty.

Francis (46:34):
It's America's answer to a pate because like he said,
you do get, get the pig's feetand you get the tr, you know,
you get the trotters in there,you get the bacon part in there,
you get the fat back in there.
It's deli.
It's absolutely.
Remarkably complex anddelicious.

Speaker 15 (46:46):
I mean, food like this is special.
I mean, it's, it's almost sadthat he's so far away.
I go to North Carolina for this.
I mean, not tomorrow,

Francis (46:54):
but let's walk and get some more.
All right.

Mark (46:57):
Alright, Francis, I have whole new respect for, for the
expression going whole hog.
Wow.
That I'm dreaming about thatstill.
That was so amazing.
I, I, I'm, I'm very upset that Imissed it.
And I'm even more upset.
You didn't bring some home forYeah, I'm sorry.
You were home with the baby.
You weren't even gonna work.
Come on, come on.
That was, wasn't that far.
You could have brought some Thatwas, that was really, really

(47:18):
complex food.
And when I tell you thatliterally if we served that and
just people didn't know what itwas, and we served like the, the
meat itself, and we put aslightly different presentation
on it for four star, four starfood, seven to place.
So that, so that was yourfavorite at Mitchell's?
I have to say it was the wholehog barbecue was, was a
revelation to me.
so let me see if I got thisright.
What he did was he took, hecooked the whole hog, and then
when he presented it to you, asfor your portion, you got a

(47:41):
mixed plate.
I got stick full of meat.
All these d of all the differentparts of, yeah, no, but it just,
it, it looked like it was sortof, it wasn't ground meat, but
it was chopped meat.
You didn't know what was what.
It was sort of like a hash ofthe different parts of the hog
and it's just like a big cleaverand, and worked it all down
from, I have no idea.
Okay.
Well we saw, we saw them takethe hogs off and put'em in the
chopping block, but he said hehad a special technique.
I didn't know exactly what itwas, but I mean, it was all the

(48:02):
different parts of the meat andspices and the fat was
throughout and you could tasteall these different textures.
It was absolutely incredible andI would go down to North
Carolina for that.
Yeah, we'll definitely put allthe, all the websites to each
place and that we talked aboutin the last two days.
And, and if you're a real foodieand feel like making a road
trip, you could do a road trip,barbecue, take a couple of days,
and go to barbecue in a coupleof different places.
It sounds great.
I mean, I have a motorcycle andI'm thinking that that might be

(48:24):
a nice little way to, you know,find a destination, you know
what I mean?
No, I would definitely do it ifI didn't have to go with you.
Well, you, you, I don't knowthat I could control the
motorcycle with you on the backof it there, Mr.
Mark.
I, I'm sure you could.
Um, but we'll put that up on thewebsite If you wanna try
barbecuing at home.
I suggest you probably don'tstart with a whole hog thing,
but there are ways to do it andbe real about it.
It's, it's really quite a largeendeavor, Yeah.

(48:46):
Just remember this isn't a twohour process.
No, it's the long.
Long, slow cook.
It's like overnight, 16, 18hours if you want to, if you
wanna really barbecue and yougotta tend the fire.
Right.
So, you know, you gotta buy someequipment because if you wanna
bury like you did in in college,in the backyard, you gotta have
somebody standing there.
Yep.
You gotta keep a thermometer inthere.
It's, well, it's, it's a longprocess and, and you can buy

(49:07):
whole hogs in Manhattan, in the,in the meat district.
Yeah.
You can just go right into thoseplaces, order a whole hog and
they'll have it ready for youand you just throw in the back
in a pickup and off you go.
Or, or in the SUV and off yougo.
And, and I was saying my firstforay into the New York City
meat market was with Casey toget the pigs for the, the Sigma
Pi pig roasts.
But the thing I didn't, that Ileft out of yesterday's,

(49:29):
discussion of this Yeah.
Was Casey, after the firstcouple years ago and into the
meat market.
That wasn't good enough forCasey after that.
He used to, he started going tothe farm directly butchering the
pig himself, killing a pighimself, right?
Killing the pig himself.
And then he would bleed it andbring it back to, to the
fraternity house.
I love that.
Where he would then cook it for18 hours and stand guard over

(49:51):
that pig, so nobody would get totouch it until that pig was
absolutely perfect andabsolutely ready.
And let me tell you something.
Holding 150 drunk people from afraternity party, fortunately
away from a.
From a pig that's roasting andbeen roasting in the front yard
for 17 hours.
Fortunately, Casey's a big guyand so are you.
That's a lot of work, I tell youthat, that that's a lot of fun.

(50:11):
And I, I think it's, it was ablast.
I think it's important whenpeople get, I mean, when people
do, like what Casey did is like,you know, if you're not a
vegetarian and you eat meat, Imean, for people to understand
that, you know, we do killanimals for food, but whether we
do it humanely or not, how we doit, how that animal raised those
things are all, you know, it'snot a, a simple black and white
issue, you know?
Right.
Well, I, I like that he.
Went all the way back andstarted at the beginning of the

(50:33):
process.
Yeah.
So I think one of the thingsthat, that we don't do enough
of, and, and we kind of, kind ofdivorce ourself from the, from
the process of bringing meat tothe table.
It's, it is a process and, andit, it doesn't, chickens don't
come quartered.
Right?
Right.
That's, that's not the way theyoccur in nature.
What does chicken come from?
Doesn't come in a plastic bag.
Right.
You know, when we have barbecuearound here, I don't know what
they, you know, there's a lot oflocal beer drinking with it

(50:53):
going on down south, but usuallythat would be a typical thing to
do is to drink beer with, butI'm a wine guy.
I like wine.
Well, I think that, that peopledon't realize that wine can go
with barbecue too.
I think wine can go really greatwith barbecue.
Mm-hmm.
I think beer goes really wellwith barbecue as well, but, but
with barbecue, which isdifferent than your grilled meat
out on the, in the backyardbecause barbecue is not a rare
red meat.
One of the surprising things togo with barbecue is German or

(51:15):
Austrian Riesling.
It, it's a great touch.
Actually.
We have a dish on, on the menuright now.
It's a, it's a spicy lambsausage and Riesling is.
Beautiful with it.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
you know, especially if it's alittle bit spicy mm-hmm.
If you've got a little, littlebit of spice to it.
Riesling is a great, greatcompliment.
People are afraid of Rieslingsbecause they think that
Rieslings are always sweet.
Mm-hmm.
And often German rieslings dohave some sweetness to them, but

(51:36):
they range in from, from thevery dry, the truck and wines
from Germany are very dry andthe hob truck and wines are very
dry all the way to some of theal slices and burnes or dessert
wines.
But that's something you need toask your local merchant about.
Right.
And, and, um, or your, or yourwine guy in the restaurant.
Um.
But with a nice, but, but I'lltell you right now, even for
your backyard barbecue, as longas you're not having rare red

(51:57):
meat right?
This is not gonna go with yourrare cheeseburger.
Right?
Okay.
But for, for your ribs that havebeen cooking for six, eight
hours, right?
For, for your, uh, sausages,especially if you like your
burgers like spicy sausage, ifyou like your burgers, like my
Irish relatives, like theirburgers, which is good for six
hours, they will go well withit.
But without, aside from railroadmeat, people are really, I can't
recommend riesling enough.
And there are actually someAustralian rieslings that are

(52:18):
really great as well.
Um, and.
It's, it's very complex how itinterplays and it's sort of
surprising'cause people think,oh, I have meat, I have to have
red wine.
Right.
No, you don't.
And the reason we'll also gowith fish if you like oysters.
One of the things I like to doout in the backyard is I always
like to, um, whenever I can openoysters to order or open them on
the grill, but there's some redsthat'll work here too.
Yeah, I think, well, what do yousuggest, mark?

(52:38):
Well, if you go with aZinfandel, a red Zinfandel, not
a white Zinfandel, redZinfandel, or you go with a
Syrah or a wine like that,that's gonna have a little bit
higher fruit content to it.
A little petite sra maybe?
Yeah, a little.
And, and a wine that'll, that'llhave some softness and some
spiciness to, to work as both acompliment, uh, with the, with
the, uh.

(52:59):
And barbecue sauce and thosewines, Zinfandel and Syrah and
Petit Sirrah will also go wellwith your rare hamburgers.
Exactly.
And your rare steaks.
Exactly.
And so they're a very versatilered wine.
I can't stress to you enough, ifyou're outside and you're
serving wine, especially redwine, you need to chill it down.
It cannot, if it's 78 degreesoutside.
Yeah.
Your 78 degree wine is gonnataste like alcohol and
lollipops, right?
And even worse, when it gets upto 90 or 95 degrees, you're

(53:20):
gonna it, you're not gonnaunderstand why the wine tastes
so bad.
Cellar temperature, we'retalking about 55, 58, 62
degrees, especially for thesewines, the, the reds that get
higher in alcohol.
And don't be afraid to take alittle bit of that red wine and
just drop it on ice for a fewminutes.
If it gets too hot, it'sperfectly okay.
Once you've opened the bottle,Francis doesn't mean put ice
cubes in it.
He means drop it on ice.
Yeah, put the whole bottle onice.
Yeah, you don't wanna dilute itwith the ice cubes.

(53:59):
mark, we've done our whole showtoday on barbecue and, uh, one
of the things that I think is sointeresting is when people
around here say, oh, come onover to my house for barbecue.
They should say, come on over tomy house to grill.
Um, because I think that theguys in New York, I asked them
all what they had to say aboutlocal people barbecuing.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, let's hear what EdMitchell had to say about local
New Jersey barbecue.
I.

Francis (54:17):
Now you're, you're as serious.
As serious as can be.
And I wanna go on another end ofthe spectrum.
Our radio station is broadcastout in New Jersey where we got a
lot of guys who have day jobsduring the week and they got a,
a nice suburban lawn in thebackyard and they got a Weber
grill, and it's probably evenjust a gas grill.
They turn it on, light it up andthrow a couple of steaks on
there and they say to theirfriends.
And so why don't you come overto my house for barbecue?
What do you have to say to thosepeople?

Ed Mitchell (54:37):
Well, I say, you know, those guys are comfortable
doing what they do.
That's their thing, but is whatthey do barbecue.
Uh, if they wanna do barbecue,tell'em, come find Ed Mitchell.
Let, let's, let's put on about ahundred and seventy five, two
hundred pound a whole hog, andlet's see what we've got.

Francis (54:51):
Gonna need a bigger grill.
Thanks for talking to us, Mr.
Mitchell.
You're quite welcome.
Thank you.
Thanks

Ed Mitchell (54:54):
a lot.
Alright.

Mark (54:56):
That, that was absolutely great.
I, I'll tell you, I, I missed itlast this, this past one.
I will not miss it next year.
I know we're going together.
There is no shot that you'regoing without me next year.
I promise not to have anotherbaby next year.
And we, and I am going, I hadthis picture when I was talking
to the guy of you with yourWeber grill in the backyard and
me showing up with 175 pound hogthrowing it on there.

(55:20):
I don't think it gone over sowell.
Uh, I, again, Francis, this hasbeen a great

Francis (55:24):
show out

Mark (55:24):
I love this kind of food.
Yeah, I absolutely adore greatbarbecue sauce.
One that's not too sticky, sweetone that's just kind of smoky
and, and delicious, and in anera when you can get everything
delivered to your home.
Mm-hmm.
You still have to travel if youwant to try the different kinds
of barbecue.
And I think that that's greatbecause the barbecue itself can
be a destination and I recommendit for a summer trip.

(55:46):
I think next spring I'm gonna goon a barbecue tour of the middle
west and south.
So maybe we'll catch a ball gamein, uh, in Kansas City and go
get some Kansas City barbecue.
Sure, I, you'll have to explainthe rules of the ball game to
me.
Three outs an inning, but I knowbarbecue pretty well.
Well, I hope you've enjoyed thistime with us couple of days
talking about barbecue andtouring the country.
Uh, and next year we're gonna doit again.
Maybe we'll go down and do itourselves.

(56:07):
Have you enjoyed yourself, mark?
Oh, so much.
I certainly have.
Well, you spent another hourlistening to the restaurant
guys.
Uh, I'm Francis Shot.
And I'm Mark Pasco.
We are the restaurant guys,central Jersey 1415 to time

Francis (56:17):
this 12.
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