August 21, 2025 • 38 mins
This is a Vintage Selection from 2006
The Banter
The Guys assert that in addition to the arts, one of the keys to revitalizing cities is al fresco dining…but close the doors if it’s sultry.
The Conversation
The Restaurant Guys gather intel from expert Ed Hamilton who spent time studying the spirit. Ed discusses the different processes, labeling and deceit in the rum market. Most importantly, Ed shares some of the best ways to enjoy rum. Cheers!
The Inside Track
The Guys have learned a great deal from Ed’s research; they are appreciative of his obsession…or should they say passion.
Francis: You have a kind of an obsession with rum. Why rum?
Ed: Well, I would call it a passion, not an obsession.
Mark: That's 'cause you haven't met you, Ed.
Francis: All obsessed people called their obsessions passions.
Ed: Yeah. And all my friends are characters except me.
Bio
Ed Hamilton is a leading authority on rum and the founder of the Ministry of Rum, a trusted resource for enthusiasts and professionals alike. A former merchant mariner turned rum advocate, Ed has spent decades traveling the Caribbean to document distilleries, traditions, and styles of rum. He is the author of several definitive books on the spirit.
Ed has been instrumental in introducing authentic Caribbean rums to broader markets through his Hamilton Rum portfolio. His Ministry of Rum Lost Voyage Rum was named Rum of the Year at the Bartenders Spirits Awards 2024.
Info
Ed’s site (a work in progress so check back!)
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TheGuys@restaurantguyspodcast.com
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Good morning, mark.
Morning Francis.
How are you this morning?
Jesus.
Fran (00:44):
I was in New York City last evening.
You go to
Speaker 2 (00:48):
New York City?
Fran (00:48):
Yeah, I was wandering around.
How'd you
Speaker 2 (00:51):
get there?
Fran (00:52):
Drove.
Oddly, I You never drive to ParkCity?
Never.
Oh, no.
No.
Wait, I didn't drive.
That's right.
We, um, went with a friend,drove to Jersey City, and then
we took the pass train.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and we were walking around,went to, went to see a film, and
we went to dinner and I wasstruck by something I'm struck
by every summer.
Everyone loves Alfresco dining.
(01:13):
Mm-hmm.
Um, and we have a few tables onthe sidewalk ourselves in New
Brunswick and Alfresco dining,believe it or not.
In, in New Brunswick, NewJersey.
And for, for, we know, we have alot of restaurant listeners and
people listening across thecountry.
New Brunswick, New Jersey is acity, is a, is a great urban
success story in the, in thelate sixties and early seventies
and the middle seventies and thelate seventies.
(01:34):
New Brunswick was a verydistressed city.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I came to, to Rutgers in 1983.
If you told me in 1983 that Iwas opening a restaurant in, on
the block we're on and, and thetheater, the state theater,
which is one of the largest,theaters in the state now, and
does all kinds of things fromBill Cosby to, to Bruce
Springsteen Springs, Bruce Yoyo,ma, you name it, every type of,
program.
Was a porn theater two doorsdown from our, from where our
(02:01):
restaurant is right now.
If you told me I was opening arestaurant on that block, I
would've say, ah, get outtahere.
No way.
I didn't even walk down thatblock.
Fran (02:07):
Right.
And he's a big guy.
Yeah.
But one of the ways that theenlightened leadership in New
Brunswick used to turn the cityaround was they invested heavily
in the arts, and Johnson andJohnson invested heavily in the
city as well.
They partnered with the privatesector.
Then they took it to the nextstep and they made the jump
from, from public to publicsector driving private
businesses.
And New Brunswick became knownas a restaurant town.
(02:29):
And one of the things the citydid to maximize the impact on
the street life of NewBrunswick, which was at that
time very challenging.
And now two bedroom apartmentsacross the street from our
restaurant go for$900,000.
Unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
The penthouse is$1.6 million,
Fran (02:43):
900,000 for the not.
Penthouse is just, is, is is two
Speaker 2 (02:47):
bedrooms.
Unbelievable.
Fran (02:48):
Um, anyway, One of the things the city wisely did back
then when you could live therefor 200 bucks a month, you know
mm-hmm.
In above an old store, um, wasthey made it very easy for
restaurants to have a streetpresence.
If you were a full servicerestaurant with at least 50
seats, you got to put tables outon the street for free.
Well,
Speaker 2 (03:04):
part of the reason is 'cause it was a very old town
with very wide sidewalks.
Yes.
That was one of the, one of thethings that, one of the
characteristics of new bra,
Fran (03:11):
and you had to leave a certain amount of footage.
Why so, so wouldn't impedetraffic and handicapped people
could get by easily, but if youwere, as so many restaurants
were able to do this, you couldput tables on the sidewalk,
which, what does that do?
That keeps good people on thestreet, that keeps people
watching on the street.
That gives people a vestedinterest.
You're not running a gauntlet tothe restaurant door.
Mm-hmm.
There are people outside allnight long, and that really, I
(03:34):
think, was part of the seachange of street life in New
Brunswick that made people feelconfident investing.
Well, what
Speaker 2 (03:40):
happened is, and the theater turned around, uh,
before most of the restaurantsin town showed up, but the
theater came, came back and kindof was making itself a presence.
And then two other theatersopened next to it, uh, George
Street, Playhouse and CrossroadsTheater.
And so that area kind of becamea, a little bit of a theater
row, but what happened?
People would come, either valet,park their car or park their car
(04:01):
in one of the lots and theywould go from immediately come
to town, go to the theater andleave town.
Right.
And, you know, that was, thatwas the whole thing.
They, it's, there was no,
Fran (04:11):
before theater, there was no after theater.
And, and the city recognizedthat restaurants were gonna turn
that around and some places in,in, uh, New Jersey.
Um.
Use, and I think unwisely, theyhave restaurants within the
theaters.
Mm-hmm.
Um, now, I mean, I think thatthe performing arts center in
Newark is a special case andthey needed to do that.
Um, but you know, the paper millplayoffs, I mean, I'll, I'll
(04:31):
lodge a criticism there.
They have w within the theaterthey have a restaurant.
So what does that do for thetown?
Exactly.
You know, I mean, and the, therestaurant is part of the
theater, and so it's, you know,tax exempt, I think.
I'm not sure about that, but Ithink it's, well,
Speaker 2 (04:44):
they can only operate on theater nights there, but it
doesn't create the same kind ofpresence that a regular
restaurant does.
Fran (04:49):
But what New Brunswick did, which was much wiser, was
they said, okay, the theatersare there.
And we have these theaters andthey'll work with the local
restaurants to build actualbusinesses.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
And they have, there's no doubt about it.
The theaters and the restaurantswork very well together
Fran (05:00):
anyway, so walking around the streets of New Brunswick,
you see a lot, a lot of placeshave windows that open French
doors, that open tables on thestreet.
And I was in Manhattan, which ofcourse you have very similar
thing as you have in Paris, asyou have in Vienna, as you have
in all these great cities aroundthe world.
Um, but last night it wasOppressively hot.
It was 80 degrees and humid,and.
(05:21):
The, there were restaurants thathad the doors open.
Mm-hmm.
And I just, I, I think, my god,close the damn doors.
What about, what about
Speaker 2 (05:28):
the people inside who were just begging for some air
conditioning?
Fran (05:31):
Well, it's, you know, it's, well, that's the thing.
I mean, I think people certainlywant a street presence, but
close the damn doors and turn onthe air conditioning.
And I thought, I'm not, I'msweating out here like you
wouldn't believe.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm not gonna go and sit in,in, in air and inside.
Right.
Inside, inside,
Speaker 2 (05:45):
there's no breeze.
There's no air movement.
Fran (05:48):
I'm not Spanish, I'm not French, I'm American.
Gimme the air conditioning.
You know, and you know what wedo?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I want, I'm, I'm American.
I want air conditioning, icecubes and shower curtain and
shower curtains.
Okay?
Those are the three things thatI demand.
Fran (06:01):
So, but when you, when you look at what we do now, our
second floor restaurant,Catherine Lombardi.
Now it's obviously a secondfloor, so the sidewalk presence
could be a real drop off.
You got the window and you falldown a floor.
But what we, we installed, weripped out all the old windows.
We have, uh, windows on twostreets, and it's, you know, the
windows are the centerpiece andit's like windows on New
Brunswick.
We ripped out the old windowsand we put in windows that open
(06:22):
and that was very important tous.
Mm-hmm.
A lot of people counseled usagainst that and'cause they're
harder to maintain, they're moreexpensive, they can break.
But when we open the windows ona beautiful night.
It's, it's, it connects you withthe street, you hear the sounds
of the city.
Mm-hmm.
And what's it, what I like is onnights very, very often you have
a day when it's just too hot andwe have the air conditioning on
(06:43):
and the windows closed, but it'sseven o'clock.
Things will change.
Once the sun goes down, you'llget a little summer breeze and
then the maitre dee will walkaround to the restaurant and
open all 27 windows and it justchanges everything.
It's like an event.
And, but you know, if it'soppressively hot, close the
windows, close the doors.
Gimme my, gimme my airconditioner.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Right?
But what's happened from that?
Okay, now you see, see the, the.
The city turning around becauseit has a street presence and
the, just this past weekend,star Ledger named New Brunswick,
the best restaurant town in NewJersey.
Right, right.
I mean that's, that's a bigdeal.
Fran (07:16):
The Star ledger, for those of you listening outta state,
the North Star, formerly theNorth Star Ledger is the largest
circulation daily paper in thestate of New Jersey, and it's a
very respected and respectablepaper, and they named New
Brunswick, New Jersey.
You know, there are otherrestaurants besides ours in this
little town.
Mm-hmm.
And you not really worth goingto though.
You'd probably wanna just go toours, to our colleagues.
Mark is just kidding.
There are plenty of greatrestaurants in New Brunswick.
(07:38):
Um, but if you look at just theexact opposite, if you look at
how Newark tried to redevelopinitially, they used the Gateway
Center.
Mm-hmm.
Well, what was the GatewayCenter?
It was the hotel.
Restaurants and shoppingconnected to the train station,
even though there were separatebuildings, right.
Connected by walkway tunnels.
Two stories above the street.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Right.
So you could look down overNewark, but you never had to
actually enter into Newark.
Fran (07:59):
Right?
Right.
You, you could, you could takethe train to Newark, get off the
train, go to one office buildingvisit.
Our attorneys, McCarter andEnglish are, are our attorneys
that are there in GatewayCenter.
One, go visit a restaurant in adifferent building, go stay at
the hotel, get back on thetrain, go back home, and never
once have set foot on thestreets of the city of Newark.
And New Brunswick took justexactly the opposite.
And they said, listen, if you'regonna come in our city, you
(08:20):
wanna develop our property,you're gonna put people on our
streets and we're gonna supportthe businesses that do, which
is, you know, I think a greatway to turn a city around, see
how great restaurants are.
We'll be back in just a moment.
You're, you're listening to therestaurant guys, Hello everybody
and welcome back.
You're listening to theRestaurant guys, mark and
Francis of Stage left inCatherine Lombardi restaurants
in downtown New Brunswick.
Our guest today is an expert onrum.
His name is Ed Hamilton, andhe's probably the premier expert
(08:43):
on RUM that we've ever comeacross.
He's authored four books on thetopic.
Uh.
Rums of the Eastern Caribbean isone of them.
The complete guide to rum isanother.
Uh, he spent the last 15 yearscruising on his sloop,
continuously gathering data onrum history and manufacturers.
He's authored four books.
We met him in New York recentlyat the Museum of the American
Cocktail Party to celebrate the200th anniversary of the
(09:04):
American cocktail.
And he really gave us quite aneducation.
We thought we knew what we weretalking about, but.
Well, we don't.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Ed, welcome to the show.
Ed (09:11):
Nice to be here.
Francis (09:12):
Now, um, you, have a kind of an obsession with rum.
Why rum?
Ed (09:18):
Well, I would call it a passion from not an obsession.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
All that's'cause you haven't met you, ed, all obsess,
Fran (09:26):
all obsessed people call our obsession, uh, passion.
But I agree.
Ed (09:29):
Yeah.
And all my friends arecharacters except me.
Francis (09:33):
So, so why, why rum?
What, what do you, what soappeals to you about rum,
particularly among the spirits.
Well,
Ed (09:39):
I was, I was on my sailboat in the Caribbean, and I'm sure
you've heard when you'resurrounded by lemonade, lemons,
Fran (09:44):
right.
Like
Ed (09:45):
lemonade.
Fran (09:45):
Right, right.
Ed (09:46):
I was surrounded by rum.
Fran (09:47):
Mm-hmm.
Ed (09:48):
Everywhere I went there was rum.
And living on a sailboat withouta job, uh, rum was a lot cheaper
than beer Uhhuh.
And, uh, so it was the naturalthing to do.
Fran (09:59):
Now.
Now, why don't we tell peoplewhat RUM really is?
And I mean, that's not as simplean answer as, I mean, and the
very simplest level rum is,fermented from, sugar, sugar
king.
It's, it's for, it's fermentedfrom sugar and then distilled
into a spirit.
That's the basic definition ofrum.
But, but there are a lot ofdistinctions that are really
important within that.
Why don't we talk about some ofthem?
Ed (10:20):
Okay.
All rum is made from sugar cane.
That's the definition accordingto our, uh, definition.
People in Washington DC thatdecide all these things.
And every distiller wants totalk to you about the quality of
the sugar cane that goes intothe rum.
But most rums are made frommolasses.
Rum can also be made from sugarcane juice, or sugar cane syrup.
(10:43):
So given that broad definition,it will include things like.
K from Brazil or molasses basedspirits.
But it's also worth noting thatsome of the big dis uh, most of
the big dis distilleries, inaddition to making rum from
their molasses, they also makeneutral spirits that they call
(11:03):
vodka or they flavor'em and callgin, or they flavor'em and call
whiskey or.
All number of other things.
Fran (11:09):
What makes a, so I'm, I'm distilling from sugar cane.
What, when does it become avodka rather than a rum?
Ed (11:14):
Vodka is distilled to 95% rum, by the definition is a
spirit distilled from sugarcane, either molasses,
sugarcane, juice, or syrupdistilled to less than 95%
alcohol.
Fran (11:28):
Well now.
We talk about different rums.
Um, what is the difference inquality that makes, I mean, you
talked specifically about rumagrico, which is, which is the
top, a top level of rum?
What makes a great rum?
A great rum?
Uh.
Ed (11:44):
Distillation, fermentation and raw ingredients.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, but you have to have allthree of those, like in your
restaurant, you can have thefresh caught fish right off the
boat from the day boats, and youcan throw it to a guy that just
walked in that calls himself achef, and he can make that into
a terrible meal.
(12:04):
Mm-hmm.
Or you can take that same pieceof fish and properly prepare it.
Cook it, don't overcook it, andyou end up with something that
you want to come back to yourrestaurant for.
So to say that rum agrico isbest, or one rum is better than
another, you really have to lookat the whole process.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
So is the sugar are, are there different grades of
sugarcane or is it all aboutwho's making it?
Ed (12:28):
Uh, there's.
All kinds of variables.
Uh, the sugar going into it isone of the ingredients, but it
has to be fermented and thendistilled by someone that knows
what's going on.
And then you've got the agingand sometimes the flavoring
process that goes into it aswell.
So it's really hard to.
Make a generalization and say,well, you know, the best one uh,
(12:51):
comes from sugar cane juice, forexample.
I've tasted some rums that weremade from sugar cane juice that
I never wanna put in my mouthagain.
Fran (12:59):
Well, now, but, so that brings us to a, a, a major
distinction You make, some rumsare made from sugar cane.
Sugar cane juice or sugarcanesyrup and other rums are made
from molasses is now, what's thedifference between a rum made
from molasses and a rum madefrom sugarcane juice or
sugarcane syrup?
Ed (13:14):
Okay.
Think of rum as a brandy, as asugarcane brandy.
Mm-hmm.
It's made from good grapes.
Brandy, the best brandies aremade from good grapes.
The best, if you talk to thecognac people are made from only
grapes grown in the cognacregion and then distilled to a
certain process.
Imagine that.
Rum is another kind of brandy,another kind of distilled
(13:38):
spirit, and it's made fromeither sugar cane juice or
molasses to make brandy.
You make a wine and then youdistill it.
So imagine the differencebetween a sugar cane, juice
wine, and a molasses wine, whichis gonna make the better
distilled spirit.
Fran (13:52):
I think sugar cane juice one will probably make the
better distilled spirit, but itwill probably be more expensive.
No,
Ed (13:58):
yes, it will, but it also depends on.
The expertise of the personthat's distilling it.
Fran (14:04):
Mm-hmm.
Now what molasses is a byproductbasically of the sugar making
process, right?
Ed (14:09):
Right.
When you extract sugar out ofsugarcane juice, you crush the
hard stalk.
It's a tall grass, goes' about10 feet in the air.
Uh, you crush that, you collectthe juice, and then through a
process of vacuum pans and uh,centrifuge and things, you
extract the crystal and sugar.
(14:30):
In that extraction process, youconcentrate everything else that
was in the juice.
Mm-hmm.
Which includes sulfur,potassium, iron, other minerals.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Good, good and bad.
You, you, you, uh,
Fran (14:41):
concentrate
Speaker 2 (14:42):
everything
Fran (14:42):
and is more bad in molasses.
Hey, you know, ed, we're gonnahave to take a short break.
We'll be back in just a moment,uh, and talk more about.
This rather fascinating processof how rums really aren't all
equal.
And as rum becomes one of thetrendiest spirits among drinkers
of quality spirits, this isstuff that you should probably
know.
Our guest today.
Is Ed Hamilton, who is probablythe premier, uh, rum expert that
I know of anywhere.
(15:02):
Uh, he's written several bookson rum and, uh, we were talking
before about how some rum ismade from molasses and some rum
is made from sugarcane juice.
And, uh, why don't we, can wejust continue on with that, with
that narrative of, of how therum comes to be rum?
Ed (15:16):
Sure.
Once you.
Start out with a wine.
You take the raw ingredient thathas some sugar in it and you
ferment it, turn it into a wine,and then you distill it.
But one of the things that Ifound very fascinating, uh, was
that the reason that rum is rumis it's made from sugar.
(15:36):
Sucrose.
Sucrose is, sugarcane is themost available source of sucrose
that we have.
When we make distilled spiritsfrom grains, for example, we
have to add enzymes and cookthem and do all kinds of things
to convert the glucose tosucrose before we can ferment.
(15:57):
When you take out those stepsand you ferment the sucrose
directly, you crush the canejuice, it'll start fermenting in
the field.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
So you have sucrose fermenting right away,
Ed (16:06):
right away,
Fran (16:07):
and that's a good thing or a bad thing?
Ed (16:09):
Well, it's a good thing if you have it in a controlled
condition right away.
If you cut the cane and just layit, lay out in the field for a
couple of days, it's not realgood.
But you can solve that problemby making sugar out of it first,
extract the sugar, end up withmolasses, and then you distill.
Everything out of it to likebetter than 90% alcohol,
(16:29):
typically 94, 95, 90 4% alcohol.
You've distilled everything outof it.
You've then you start out withessentially a neutral spirit.
And then you,
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I mean, we don't drink rum at 90, 90% alcohol,
right?
Ed (16:41):
No.
But then we just dilute it to40% alcohol and put in a bottle
and call it rum.
Fran (16:47):
Well, and you know, it's very similar to the, the same
problems faced by grape growers.
When we talk about an estatebottled wine that's, that's
bottled on the estate, um, whatthey do is.
When if they pick those grapesand they don't go crush them
right away, fermentation beginsin the field in an uncontrolled
way.
And so that harvesting and thengetting it into where you can
make it into wine, same for rumas it is for making wine.
(17:07):
You've gotta be very carefulthat doesn't happen in an
uncontrolled way.
We'll be back after the newstalking with Ed Hamilton about
rum.
Rum.
The rums that are available inAmerica today are better than
have been available in many,many years.
And if you don't know much aboutthem, you should.
ed Hamilton.
Is one of our favorite expertson spirits of any sort, and he's
an expert on rum.
He's written several books onthe topic He's written, the Rums
(17:28):
of the Eastern Caribbean and theComplete Guide to Rum.
You can find out more aboutthose books by logging onto our
website, restaurant guysradio.com.
But you can find it even more byjust listening to the radio, so
don't touch that dial
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Ed, we were talking before about rums made from
sugar cane versus rums made frommolasses.
As a consumer, how do we knowwhich is which?
How do we know by sitting outlooking at the bottle on the
shelf, which rum we shouldchoose?
Ed (17:51):
The only way that you can be guaranteed that it's rum made
from sugar cane juice as opposedto sugar cane, which generally
implies it's a molasses basedrum, is you have to find a
bottle from the French Islandsand it'll say Rum, agri coal,
but that's not enough.
Also, look for the rumsAppalachian, the origin control.
(18:12):
My French is horrible.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
You did fine.
Ed (18:15):
Look for a OC.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, like the wines, you know,the better wines.
I'll have an a OC mark on them.
There are other rums that arecoming to the market, uh, that
have all kinds of otherdesignations that some of them
don't even exist beyond the, uh,bottlers imagin.
Fran (18:33):
You know, actually, I, I, you, you disabused me of some
misinformation and I was madbecause I'm, I'm pretty good
about choosing labeling and I'mpretty savvy when it comes to
most spirits.
Uh, but I, I really admittedlydon't, didn't know much about
Roman and I still don't, exceptthat I'm reading your books now.
let's talk about how labels canbe misleading.
What They can say one thing andmean another.
Ed (18:49):
Well, the, the alcohol.
Now that's called the TTV.
It used to be the A TF, but theygot a makeover.
Uh, they have certainregulations to be called
sugarcane rum, for example.
Uh, isn't misleading at all.
It's made from sugarcane.
That product from Mount Gay isone of their better products,
and although I.
(19:10):
Like the sugarcane juice rums,uh, there are many good molasses
based rums out there, and Idrink a number of'em and, uh,
they're on my list of favoriterums.
The Malka sugarcane rum isactually a molasses based rum.
In Barbados, they call itsugarcane brandy, but in the US
they can't call it brandybecause it's rum.
(19:31):
So it, even though it is amolasses based rum, it's called
sugarcane rum, and it is madefrom sugarcane.
It's just not made fromsugarcane juice.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Mm-hmm.
And now, so the mount gay rum isa rum.
I happen to like, okay.
And it's made from molasses asopposed to, to sugarcane juice.
But there are, there are someother troubling things on labels
as far as rum goes.
And actually, again, ed, you,you brought this to my
attention, uh, the Bacardieight.
Ans now it says Bacardi eightseight ans translated means eight
(20:01):
year aged, Bacardi.
Can, can you tell me exactlywhat that
Ed (20:04):
means?
Well, it almost translate tothat ocho ans translates to
eight years.
Mm-hmm.
It doesn't say aged eight years.
It just says eight.
Ans
Fran (20:16):
Yeah.
Ed (20:17):
So that in order to be an age statement, according to the
TTB and the label Nazis inWashington DC it has to say aged
so many years and the format isaged X years where X is the
number of years.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
So Bacardi eight ans is not actually eight years old.
Ed (20:35):
No.
And they don't even claim it tobe.
Oh,
Speaker 2 (20:37):
I think it's a little misleading.
So what is it made by an8-year-old?
I mean, come, come on.
Ed (20:41):
It's a trade name.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, right.
Well, I, I have a little, it's atrade name.
My trade name is Greatest radioPersonality in the world.
Fran (20:49):
And stick to it.
I'll, alright, let's talk to usabout, about another, um,
another, uh, big difference inrums between the clear rums and,
and the medium color rums anddark rums.
What does that tell us aboutrum?
Ed (21:02):
Uh, the color really doesn't tell you much unless you read
the label and know a little bitmore about the rum.
Uh, for example, most white rumsare aged at at least some period
of time if they're made frommolasses, because when you
distill molasses, which is highin sulfur, you have to distill
(21:23):
it to a very high proof.
And even though you distill itto a high proof, if you just
bottle it right outta the still,you end up with a bite and the
finish.
And that's undesirable.
Mm-hmm.
So most distillers will age it acertain period of time, and then
they'll carbon filter it toremove the color and end up with
a white rum.
However, if the rum comes fromthe French islands and says rum,
(21:45):
agri pole, and has a OC uh, markon it, then it is not aged at
all.
But it's made from sugarcane,juice, wine.
Mm-hmm.
As opposed to molasses, so itdoesn't have that sulfur bite.
Fran (21:56):
And, and what about the dark rums, like the, like the
myers dark rum?
Where does that color come from?
Ed (22:01):
Uh, from copious amounts of caramel coloring.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
You know, I always And the coloring, that would be
the same stuff they put inCoca-Cola, right?
Ed (22:07):
Yes.
Very
Fran (22:08):
similar.
Is there a way to make a rumthat dark naturally?
Ed (22:11):
Uh, not really.
It can be aged.
And one of the other problemswhen you age, uh, spirits,
typically the molasses basedrums come out of the, still at
more than 90% alcohol.
They're aged at about 80%alcohol and used, uh, bourbon
and whiskey barrels.
Mm-hmm.
When it comes out of the barrel,it's somewhere 75, 70 8%
(22:34):
alcohol.
When those rums are bottled,they're bottled at 40% alcohol.
So you're diluting the alcohol,you're also diluting the color.
Fran (22:41):
Well, let me throw out, because this is, this is a
process.
The diluting of the alcohol is aprocess called rectification,
and I will always remember thatin France, whenever I went to
visit a place where they weredistilling brandy or armc or
cognac, um, they were veryconcerned about rectifying the
spirit very slowly, a little bitevery day to.
Bring that spirit down.
And then I went, uh, to, tovisit my friend, Colonel Elmer t
(23:03):
Lee in, in Kentucky, inFrankfurt, Kentucky.
And we, we, we toured somebourbon distilleries and they do
their rectification like all inone.
They just, if it's, if it's 80proof and they want it to be 40
proof, they half water throw inhalf water that day is, and
what, what struck me.
But the French say is that youshouldn't rectify very quickly
because then you make thedistillery smell good, but
you're taking a lot of the smellout of the, out of the spirit.
(23:24):
Whereas the, the Kentuckians arelike, oh, just put the water in
there.
Doesn't matter.
There's some smell in therealready.
What do you think?
Ed (23:30):
I think it needs to be done slowly, but it also depends on
the water, which is one of thereasons that I feel it's very
important to buy a distilledspirit that's made, that's
bottled at the distillery.
Mm-hmm.
Where the people care there,you're gonna get.
Something that's been diluted orrectified with the real water,
with the best water that theycan find.
(23:51):
Mm-hmm.
In Kentucky, they're known fortheir water, and that's one of
the reasons to make Kentuckybourbons and whiskeys so good.
Uh, if that spirit is beingshipped in bulk to a third
party, his whole goal in life isto get that high proof spirit in
one door.
Get it in bottles and out theother door.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
And you guy, any, any of our listeners have heard us
say this a thousand times.
Water is an ingredient.
Okay.
It's a very, very importantingredient.
And, and again, I'll say it's animportant ingredient in those,
in those New York City bagels.
It's an important ingredient inthe Kentucky bourbon.
It's an important ingredient inthe Italian pasta.
It is a very, very importantingredient.
Fran (24:28):
But, but I will tell you that I was at, I was at the
distillery, I was at ancient ageand when they were rectifying
and, and throughout Kentucky,the way they.
As far as I know, they don'trectify slowly in Kentucky.
And one of the, one of thethings they say in, in that
people who rectify slowly say iswhen you put water into a spirit
very quickly, you release a lotof the aromas.
And one of the things that I'vealways been taught, and I
really, that I always practiceis no matter how great the
(24:50):
spirit to drop in a little bitof ice or a little bit of water
in your glass, if you'redrinking it straight, really
releases the nose.
Does that happen with rum?
How, how should we drink rum?
Ed (24:58):
Absolutely.
Well, good rums you drink on therocks.
Uh, the old aged rums.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, the younger rums I mix inwith the French rums.
I mix in a drink called a teapunch, a petite punch with a
little bit of sugarcane syrupand a little slice of lime could
compliment the rum not to coverit up.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, there are other sugarcanejuice spirits like TOAs, which,
(25:20):
uh, tasted some very good ones.
Uh, I've tasted others that Ireally don't care to drink, but
when you make a kaiperuniversally, you add a lot of
sugar and a lot of lime, we,there's a reason for that.
Fran (25:33):
We're gonna give you the recipe for Nia when we come
back.
We'll be back in just a moment.
Uh, Kini is a drink.
It's from Brazil, and it's madewith a very particular kind of
rum called Kasa.
We know a lot of people thatmake it with.
Uh, regular rum with other kindsof rum.
Uh, but we'll give you therecipe for that on the air and,
and we'll put it up on ourwebsite in just a moment.
Our, our, our, later on today,our guest is Ed Hamilton.
He's an, he's an expert on rum.
He's written several books onrum and, and we'll be talking
(25:54):
more with him about the topic injust a moment.
Hey everybody.
Welcome back.
You're listening to theRestaurant Guys, mark and
Francis.
Our guest today is Ed Hamilton.
He is, uh, an expert in rum.
He's the founder of the Ministryof Rum and he spent the last 15
years cruising on his sloop,continuously gathering data on
rum history and manufacturers.
It's a hell of a job, butsomebody's gotta do it.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
And a moment ago, we, we were talking about kisa
versus rum and, a nice gentlemanbrought me a, uh, a kisa from
Rio de Janeiro.
It almost had a, a green hue toit.
Very, very interesting kisa.
But maybe you could tell us alittle bit of the difference
between these two products, rumand Kisa.
Ed (26:28):
Well, in the US.
Uh, KSA is called RUM in Brazil.
KSA is called ksa.
And in order to be called rum,it has to have some, uh,
component of a molasses basedspirit blended with it.
KSA differs from the rums thatwe know most of the other rums
that we know.
In that it is distilled to about40, 45% alcohol by volume.
(26:52):
Mm-hmm.
Which means that it has, uh,quite a bit of residual FU oils
and other things that, uh,weren't distilled out of it.
Mm-hmm.
There are somewhere over around30,000, uh, different people
making K in Brazil.
So there's a lot of variation inthe quality and.
(27:13):
And how it's done.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
We have seen a lot of variation.
Some, some of the KSAs that areavailable in the American market
gasoline are gasoline.
No.
I'd rather actually gasoline'smuch better.
Yeah,
Fran (27:24):
well you were talking about a drink before called the
Caina.
And a caina is uh uh, thetraditional drink of Brazil and
the, what you do with that isyou basically take some sugar.
Uh, some limes, about half alime in the bottom of a Collins
glass, and you just muddle withsugar in the limes all together.
And it's important to use thewhole limes because when you do
that, you get the juice of thelime, but you also get a little
bit of oil from the outside ofthe skin.
And you get a little bitternessfrom the pith of the, of the
(27:45):
lime
Speaker 2 (27:46):
and cut your limes into wedges like you, like You
would hang'em on the edge of a
Fran (27:48):
drink and you muddle that all together.
And then you pour, traditionallyyou pour kasa on top of that.
There's the drink everybody, andyou just, well, you gotta shake
it and you shake it like thedickens.
And so you get a lot of melt inthere.
And it's related to a daiquiri,actually similar to a daiquiri.
Um, but we, if KSA is a littlerough for you, you can make that
same drink with rum.
I'll tell you, it's a verypowerful drink and it doesn't
(28:10):
taste like it.
So be very careful.
So Ed, what's your feeling oncocktail rum cocktails overall,
Ed (28:15):
I love rum cocktails.
Fran (28:17):
What's not
Ed (28:18):
to love about Rum cocktail?
Fran (28:19):
Nothing.
But can people ruin, I mean, dopeople, do you see people
sometimes taking a rum that'sreally too good to make into a
cocktail and making it into acocktail?
Ed (28:27):
Uh, absolutely.
I see people making, taking goodrum and mixing it with a lot of
really bad ingredients.
Mm-hmm.
And I meet people all the time,I'm sure you do too, that say,
oh, we only use freshingredients and fresh juices and
all this, and then they pour insome horrible rum in on top of
it.
Mm-hmm.
Or worship, some flavoredmolasses based rum that
(28:49):
shouldn't even be called rum.
Yeah.
Fran (28:51):
You know, one of the things that we, when we talk
about cocktails all the time, Imean, and sort of the pretender
to the throne.
Cocktail bars are all aboutvodka based drinks.
Vodka doesn't taste likeanything.
Okay?
And so when you make a cocktailout of vodka, it's for somebody
who doesn't want to taste anyliquor.
And that's sort of a cocktail.
It's sort of not.
It's, it's a cocktail forsomeone who doesn't really like
to drink liquor.
(29:11):
Um, and I guess that's oneschool of thought, but the real
cocktails, the Dale Degra of theworld, the Audrey Saunders of
the world, the Gary Regans ofthe world.
Um.
You make a drink with rum or ginor whiskey, and that becomes
opponent a component of thefinal flavor of the cocktail
because you, it's part of thecharacter of the cocktail
Speaker 2 (29:28):
you
Fran (29:28):
want.
It's not just for the alcohol,it
Speaker 2 (29:30):
is for the flavor that's in that and, and
Fran (29:32):
in the summertime especially, you're looking for
the flavor of the rum to be partof the flavor of that final
cocktail.
I mean, do you, don't you findthat to be the case, ed?
Ed (29:39):
Absolutely.
And I feel very fortunate tohave been able to be served by,
uh, some great people all overthe country.
You know, in, in the islands.
I typically drank a couple ofdifferent cocktails.
One is a tea punch and uh, Idon't really remember what the
other one was.
Fran (29:56):
Well now you, um, in the tea punch, you, you talk about
sugar cane syrup, and you reallygave us a revelation when we met
at the, at the Museum of theAmerican Cocktail event.
You said, oh, you've never hadthe, the true cane syrup.
'cause we use simple syrup inthe restaurant all the time,
which is simple.
Syrup is just sugar water.
That, that, if you really wannamake great cocktails, you have
to have behind your bar.
But then you sent us some, somecane syrup.
(30:17):
Tell us the difference aboutthose two ingredients and, and
how they might be useddifferently and what makes a
cane syrup special.
Ed (30:23):
Well, real cane syrup.
Uh, when I started bringing, uh,rum, agrico to the US and
drinking it here in the US I waslooking for a good cane syrup
and so I had everybody that Icould find send me a bottle of
their syrup because I reallydidn't wanna import cane syrup.
Nothing tasted like sugar cane.
Everything that I found.
(30:45):
Either tasted like nothing, uh,like sugar, water, or molasses.
Uh, the cane syrup that I sentyou is made in Martinique by a
traditional method.
That's the way they do it.
They start out with raw sugarcane sugar.
And it in the sugar makingprocess, there are many
different, uh, grades of sugar.
(31:05):
This is the first sugar thatcomes off and basically it's the
first stable sugar.
When they reconstitute that withwater and make it into a syrup,
it's 68% sugar.
Sugar is a preservative.
Mm-hmm.
And years ago they called itpreserved.
She took any kind of fruit oranything and made it put lot of
sugar with it.
It was a preserved so.
What you have is 68% sugar.
(31:27):
You can put it on the counter,leave the top off it.
The fruit flies will come in,but it isn't gonna ferment
because it's got so much sugarin it.
Fran (31:33):
And then you'll have preserved fruit flies if they
get stuck in there.
Yeah,
Ed (31:36):
and they're good.
Taste the protein and all that.
Fran (31:38):
We'll not do that here, but thanks for the advice on
that one.
We'll put the top the cap on.
Put the tap on the bottle.
But it's good to know,
Ed (31:44):
but it gives you, it adds a lot of flavor to the drink
besides.
Being sweetener, but it alsodoesn't dilute the drink.
Mm-hmm.
Because you only use a littlebit.
Well, I started doing, uh, teapunches in New York.
Bartenders said, we've gottaknow how much.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Mm-hmm.
Ed (32:02):
And so I poured some of the glass and I said that much.
And then they couldn't pour itoutta the glass to measure it.
Fran (32:08):
Oh.
Because it was
Speaker 2 (32:09):
so thick.
Because it has a density.
And like, uh,
Fran (32:12):
we have to take a, we have to take a short break.
We'll be back in just a momentwith, uh, rum expert Ed
Hamilton.
(32:38):
We were talking at the breakabout cocktails and, and, uh, ed
has a great, good fortune ofbeing able to live his life, uh,
on a sloop in the Caribbean.
But you, you, we were talkingabout the state of the cocktail
in the United States and, andwhat's your perspective on rum
and cocktails at.
Ed (32:51):
They're getting much better
Fran (32:52):
in America.
Ed (32:53):
Right.
Uh, now when you ask for rum,the bartender doesn't
automatically hand you rum andcoke.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Which is a good thing.
And then I found
Speaker 2 (33:00):
anything, anything, not giving you anything mixed
with Coke is a good thing.
Right.
Ed (33:04):
Well, then traveling around the country, uh, I was
introduced to all kinds ofwonderful cocktails by people
that took this all veryseriously.
And of course, I've been toAudrey's place and you know, the
things that come out acrossAudrey Saunders
Speaker 2 (33:17):
is the Peggy Club.
Ed (33:18):
Right.
Everything that comes acrossthat bar is phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah.
Ed (33:22):
But then I found other people in other bars like the
brand new library.
I was just blown away by thequality of the rum cocktails,
and now wherever I go, peoplesay, well, ed, you know, try
this.
Fran (33:32):
We only have, we only have about a minute left, but can you
tell us what, at the, at theBrandy Library, what, what's the
cocktail that blew you away?
Be
Ed (33:38):
kiss
Fran (33:39):
what's in a bees kiss.
Ed (33:40):
Beas kiss is cream, a little bit of honey, and it used to be
made with white rum and darkrum.
Now they're using an aged rumfrom Martinique, and then they
dust it to whip it all up, shakeit with ice, pour a champagne
glass and then dust it withfreshly grated cinnamon.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Nice.
Fran (33:56):
Wow.
What's the age rum forMartinique that they're using?
Ed (33:59):
My favorite Eat Rum view.
Fran (34:00):
Okay.
We're gonna go and have one ofthose for lunch.
Uh, ed, thanks for being on theshow.
It was great to have you talkingabout rum.
Will you come back and talk withus about rum again?
Sure.
Super.
Thanks so much Ed.
Ed Hamilton.
You can find out more about him.
You can find out the recipes forBees Kiss.
You can find out a couple ofother RUM cocktail recipes on
our website, restaurant guysradio.com.
Or you can come into CatherineLombardi at our cocktail bar
where we make a bunch of these.
(34:21):
And, uh, just fascinating,fascinating topic.
I hope that you've enjoyedlistening to us this hour.
I love Rome.
I do too.
You know, I do too.
And, and this, thisorganization, the Ministry of
Rome.
I feel like we should have donetwo shows with, I wish we had a
two hour show, because this isactually pretty interesting
stuff and it's, and it's new tome because I, I know about a lot
of kinds of spirits and learningabout Rome is, is, is fairly
new, but I'll have to leave thatfor another day.
(34:41):
I hope you've enjoyed the hourlistening to the restaurant.
Guys.
I'm Francis Sean.
And I'm Mark Pascal.
We are the restaurant guys.
Central Jersey 1450 to time is12 noon.
Good morning, mark.
Morning Francis.
How are you this morning?
Jesus.
Fran (00:44):
I was in New York City last evening.
You go to
Speaker 2 (00:48):
New York City?
Fran (00:48):
Yeah, I was wandering around.
How'd you
Speaker 2 (00:51):
get there?
Fran (00:52):
Drove.
Oddly, I You never drive to ParkCity?
Never.
Oh, no.
No.
Wait, I didn't drive.
That's right.
We, um, went with a friend,drove to Jersey City, and then
we took the pass train.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and we were walking around,went to, went to see a film, and
we went to dinner and I wasstruck by something I'm struck
by every summer.
Everyone loves Alfresco dining.
(01:13):
Mm-hmm.
Um, and we have a few tables onthe sidewalk ourselves in New
Brunswick and Alfresco dining,believe it or not.
In, in New Brunswick, NewJersey.
And for, for, we know, we have alot of restaurant listeners and
people listening across thecountry.
New Brunswick, New Jersey is acity, is a, is a great urban
success story in the, in thelate sixties and early seventies
and the middle seventies and thelate seventies.
(01:34):
New Brunswick was a verydistressed city.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I came to, to Rutgers in 1983.
If you told me in 1983 that Iwas opening a restaurant in, on
the block we're on and, and thetheater, the state theater,
which is one of the largest,theaters in the state now, and
does all kinds of things fromBill Cosby to, to Bruce
Springsteen Springs, Bruce Yoyo,ma, you name it, every type of,
program.
Was a porn theater two doorsdown from our, from where our
(02:01):
restaurant is right now.
If you told me I was opening arestaurant on that block, I
would've say, ah, get outtahere.
No way.
I didn't even walk down thatblock.
Fran (02:07):
Right.
And he's a big guy.
Yeah.
But one of the ways that theenlightened leadership in New
Brunswick used to turn the cityaround was they invested heavily
in the arts, and Johnson andJohnson invested heavily in the
city as well.
They partnered with the privatesector.
Then they took it to the nextstep and they made the jump
from, from public to publicsector driving private
businesses.
And New Brunswick became knownas a restaurant town.
(02:29):
And one of the things the citydid to maximize the impact on
the street life of NewBrunswick, which was at that
time very challenging.
And now two bedroom apartmentsacross the street from our
restaurant go for$900,000.
Unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
The penthouse is$1.6 million,
Fran (02:43):
900,000 for the not.
Penthouse is just, is, is is two
Speaker 2 (02:47):
bedrooms.
Unbelievable.
Fran (02:48):
Um, anyway, One of the things the city wisely did back
then when you could live therefor 200 bucks a month, you know
mm-hmm.
In above an old store, um, wasthey made it very easy for
restaurants to have a streetpresence.
If you were a full servicerestaurant with at least 50
seats, you got to put tables outon the street for free.
Well,
Speaker 2 (03:04):
part of the reason is 'cause it was a very old town
with very wide sidewalks.
Yes.
That was one of the, one of thethings that, one of the
characteristics of new bra,
Fran (03:11):
and you had to leave a certain amount of footage.
Why so, so wouldn't impedetraffic and handicapped people
could get by easily, but if youwere, as so many restaurants
were able to do this, you couldput tables on the sidewalk,
which, what does that do?
That keeps good people on thestreet, that keeps people
watching on the street.
That gives people a vestedinterest.
You're not running a gauntlet tothe restaurant door.
Mm-hmm.
There are people outside allnight long, and that really, I
(03:34):
think, was part of the seachange of street life in New
Brunswick that made people feelconfident investing.
Well, what
Speaker 2 (03:40):
happened is, and the theater turned around, uh,
before most of the restaurantsin town showed up, but the
theater came, came back and kindof was making itself a presence.
And then two other theatersopened next to it, uh, George
Street, Playhouse and CrossroadsTheater.
And so that area kind of becamea, a little bit of a theater
row, but what happened?
People would come, either valet,park their car or park their car
(04:01):
in one of the lots and theywould go from immediately come
to town, go to the theater andleave town.
Right.
And, you know, that was, thatwas the whole thing.
They, it's, there was no,
Fran (04:11):
before theater, there was no after theater.
And, and the city recognizedthat restaurants were gonna turn
that around and some places in,in, uh, New Jersey.
Um.
Use, and I think unwisely, theyhave restaurants within the
theaters.
Mm-hmm.
Um, now, I mean, I think thatthe performing arts center in
Newark is a special case andthey needed to do that.
Um, but you know, the paper millplayoffs, I mean, I'll, I'll
(04:31):
lodge a criticism there.
They have w within the theaterthey have a restaurant.
So what does that do for thetown?
Exactly.
You know, I mean, and the, therestaurant is part of the
theater, and so it's, you know,tax exempt, I think.
I'm not sure about that, but Ithink it's, well,
Speaker 2 (04:44):
they can only operate on theater nights there, but it
doesn't create the same kind ofpresence that a regular
restaurant does.
Fran (04:49):
But what New Brunswick did, which was much wiser, was
they said, okay, the theatersare there.
And we have these theaters andthey'll work with the local
restaurants to build actualbusinesses.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
And they have, there's no doubt about it.
The theaters and the restaurantswork very well together
Fran (05:00):
anyway, so walking around the streets of New Brunswick,
you see a lot, a lot of placeshave windows that open French
doors, that open tables on thestreet.
And I was in Manhattan, which ofcourse you have very similar
thing as you have in Paris, asyou have in Vienna, as you have
in all these great cities aroundthe world.
Um, but last night it wasOppressively hot.
It was 80 degrees and humid,and.
(05:21):
The, there were restaurants thathad the doors open.
Mm-hmm.
And I just, I, I think, my god,close the damn doors.
What about, what about
Speaker 2 (05:28):
the people inside who were just begging for some air
conditioning?
Fran (05:31):
Well, it's, you know, it's, well, that's the thing.
I mean, I think people certainlywant a street presence, but
close the damn doors and turn onthe air conditioning.
And I thought, I'm not, I'msweating out here like you
wouldn't believe.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm not gonna go and sit in,in, in air and inside.
Right.
Inside, inside,
Speaker 2 (05:45):
there's no breeze.
There's no air movement.
Fran (05:48):
I'm not Spanish, I'm not French, I'm American.
Gimme the air conditioning.
You know, and you know what wedo?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I want, I'm, I'm American.
I want air conditioning, icecubes and shower curtain and
shower curtains.
Okay?
Those are the three things thatI demand.
Fran (06:01):
So, but when you, when you look at what we do now, our
second floor restaurant,Catherine Lombardi.
Now it's obviously a secondfloor, so the sidewalk presence
could be a real drop off.
You got the window and you falldown a floor.
But what we, we installed, weripped out all the old windows.
We have, uh, windows on twostreets, and it's, you know, the
windows are the centerpiece andit's like windows on New
Brunswick.
We ripped out the old windowsand we put in windows that open
(06:22):
and that was very important tous.
Mm-hmm.
A lot of people counseled usagainst that and'cause they're
harder to maintain, they're moreexpensive, they can break.
But when we open the windows ona beautiful night.
It's, it's, it connects you withthe street, you hear the sounds
of the city.
Mm-hmm.
And what's it, what I like is onnights very, very often you have
a day when it's just too hot andwe have the air conditioning on
(06:43):
and the windows closed, but it'sseven o'clock.
Things will change.
Once the sun goes down, you'llget a little summer breeze and
then the maitre dee will walkaround to the restaurant and
open all 27 windows and it justchanges everything.
It's like an event.
And, but you know, if it'soppressively hot, close the
windows, close the doors.
Gimme my, gimme my airconditioner.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Right?
But what's happened from that?
Okay, now you see, see the, the.
The city turning around becauseit has a street presence and
the, just this past weekend,star Ledger named New Brunswick,
the best restaurant town in NewJersey.
Right, right.
I mean that's, that's a bigdeal.
Fran (07:16):
The Star ledger, for those of you listening outta state,
the North Star, formerly theNorth Star Ledger is the largest
circulation daily paper in thestate of New Jersey, and it's a
very respected and respectablepaper, and they named New
Brunswick, New Jersey.
You know, there are otherrestaurants besides ours in this
little town.
Mm-hmm.
And you not really worth goingto though.
You'd probably wanna just go toours, to our colleagues.
Mark is just kidding.
There are plenty of greatrestaurants in New Brunswick.
(07:38):
Um, but if you look at just theexact opposite, if you look at
how Newark tried to redevelopinitially, they used the Gateway
Center.
Mm-hmm.
Well, what was the GatewayCenter?
It was the hotel.
Restaurants and shoppingconnected to the train station,
even though there were separatebuildings, right.
Connected by walkway tunnels.
Two stories above the street.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Right.
So you could look down overNewark, but you never had to
actually enter into Newark.
Fran (07:59):
Right?
Right.
You, you could, you could takethe train to Newark, get off the
train, go to one office buildingvisit.
Our attorneys, McCarter andEnglish are, are our attorneys
that are there in GatewayCenter.
One, go visit a restaurant in adifferent building, go stay at
the hotel, get back on thetrain, go back home, and never
once have set foot on thestreets of the city of Newark.
And New Brunswick took justexactly the opposite.
And they said, listen, if you'regonna come in our city, you
(08:20):
wanna develop our property,you're gonna put people on our
streets and we're gonna supportthe businesses that do, which
is, you know, I think a greatway to turn a city around, see
how great restaurants are.
We'll be back in just a moment.
You're, you're listening to therestaurant guys, Hello everybody
and welcome back.
You're listening to theRestaurant guys, mark and
Francis of Stage left inCatherine Lombardi restaurants
in downtown New Brunswick.
Our guest today is an expert onrum.
His name is Ed Hamilton, andhe's probably the premier expert
(08:43):
on RUM that we've ever comeacross.
He's authored four books on thetopic.
Uh.
Rums of the Eastern Caribbean isone of them.
The complete guide to rum isanother.
Uh, he spent the last 15 yearscruising on his sloop,
continuously gathering data onrum history and manufacturers.
He's authored four books.
We met him in New York recentlyat the Museum of the American
Cocktail Party to celebrate the200th anniversary of the
(09:04):
American cocktail.
And he really gave us quite aneducation.
We thought we knew what we weretalking about, but.
Well, we don't.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Ed, welcome to the show.
Ed (09:11):
Nice to be here.
Francis (09:12):
Now, um, you, have a kind of an obsession with rum.
Why rum?
Ed (09:18):
Well, I would call it a passion from not an obsession.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
All that's'cause you haven't met you, ed, all obsess,
Fran (09:26):
all obsessed people call our obsession, uh, passion.
But I agree.
Ed (09:29):
Yeah.
And all my friends arecharacters except me.
Francis (09:33):
So, so why, why rum?
What, what do you, what soappeals to you about rum,
particularly among the spirits.
Well,
Ed (09:39):
I was, I was on my sailboat in the Caribbean, and I'm sure
you've heard when you'resurrounded by lemonade, lemons,
Fran (09:44):
right.
Like
Ed (09:45):
lemonade.
Fran (09:45):
Right, right.
Ed (09:46):
I was surrounded by rum.
Fran (09:47):
Mm-hmm.
Ed (09:48):
Everywhere I went there was rum.
And living on a sailboat withouta job, uh, rum was a lot cheaper
than beer Uhhuh.
And, uh, so it was the naturalthing to do.
Fran (09:59):
Now.
Now, why don't we tell peoplewhat RUM really is?
And I mean, that's not as simplean answer as, I mean, and the
very simplest level rum is,fermented from, sugar, sugar
king.
It's, it's for, it's fermentedfrom sugar and then distilled
into a spirit.
That's the basic definition ofrum.
But, but there are a lot ofdistinctions that are really
important within that.
Why don't we talk about some ofthem?
Ed (10:20):
Okay.
All rum is made from sugar cane.
That's the definition accordingto our, uh, definition.
People in Washington DC thatdecide all these things.
And every distiller wants totalk to you about the quality of
the sugar cane that goes intothe rum.
But most rums are made frommolasses.
Rum can also be made from sugarcane juice, or sugar cane syrup.
(10:43):
So given that broad definition,it will include things like.
K from Brazil or molasses basedspirits.
But it's also worth noting thatsome of the big dis uh, most of
the big dis distilleries, inaddition to making rum from
their molasses, they also makeneutral spirits that they call
(11:03):
vodka or they flavor'em and callgin, or they flavor'em and call
whiskey or.
All number of other things.
Fran (11:09):
What makes a, so I'm, I'm distilling from sugar cane.
What, when does it become avodka rather than a rum?
Ed (11:14):
Vodka is distilled to 95% rum, by the definition is a
spirit distilled from sugarcane, either molasses,
sugarcane, juice, or syrupdistilled to less than 95%
alcohol.
Fran (11:28):
Well now.
We talk about different rums.
Um, what is the difference inquality that makes, I mean, you
talked specifically about rumagrico, which is, which is the
top, a top level of rum?
What makes a great rum?
A great rum?
Uh.
Ed (11:44):
Distillation, fermentation and raw ingredients.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, but you have to have allthree of those, like in your
restaurant, you can have thefresh caught fish right off the
boat from the day boats, and youcan throw it to a guy that just
walked in that calls himself achef, and he can make that into
a terrible meal.
(12:04):
Mm-hmm.
Or you can take that same pieceof fish and properly prepare it.
Cook it, don't overcook it, andyou end up with something that
you want to come back to yourrestaurant for.
So to say that rum agrico isbest, or one rum is better than
another, you really have to lookat the whole process.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
So is the sugar are, are there different grades of
sugarcane or is it all aboutwho's making it?
Ed (12:28):
Uh, there's.
All kinds of variables.
Uh, the sugar going into it isone of the ingredients, but it
has to be fermented and thendistilled by someone that knows
what's going on.
And then you've got the agingand sometimes the flavoring
process that goes into it aswell.
So it's really hard to.
Make a generalization and say,well, you know, the best one uh,
(12:51):
comes from sugar cane juice, forexample.
I've tasted some rums that weremade from sugar cane juice that
I never wanna put in my mouthagain.
Fran (12:59):
Well, now, but, so that brings us to a, a, a major
distinction You make, some rumsare made from sugar cane.
Sugar cane juice or sugarcanesyrup and other rums are made
from molasses is now, what's thedifference between a rum made
from molasses and a rum madefrom sugarcane juice or
sugarcane syrup?
Ed (13:14):
Okay.
Think of rum as a brandy, as asugarcane brandy.
Mm-hmm.
It's made from good grapes.
Brandy, the best brandies aremade from good grapes.
The best, if you talk to thecognac people are made from only
grapes grown in the cognacregion and then distilled to a
certain process.
Imagine that.
Rum is another kind of brandy,another kind of distilled
(13:38):
spirit, and it's made fromeither sugar cane juice or
molasses to make brandy.
You make a wine and then youdistill it.
So imagine the differencebetween a sugar cane, juice
wine, and a molasses wine, whichis gonna make the better
distilled spirit.
Fran (13:52):
I think sugar cane juice one will probably make the
better distilled spirit, but itwill probably be more expensive.
No,
Ed (13:58):
yes, it will, but it also depends on.
The expertise of the personthat's distilling it.
Fran (14:04):
Mm-hmm.
Now what molasses is a byproductbasically of the sugar making
process, right?
Ed (14:09):
Right.
When you extract sugar out ofsugarcane juice, you crush the
hard stalk.
It's a tall grass, goes' about10 feet in the air.
Uh, you crush that, you collectthe juice, and then through a
process of vacuum pans and uh,centrifuge and things, you
extract the crystal and sugar.
(14:30):
In that extraction process, youconcentrate everything else that
was in the juice.
Mm-hmm.
Which includes sulfur,potassium, iron, other minerals.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Good, good and bad.
You, you, you, uh,
Fran (14:41):
concentrate
Speaker 2 (14:42):
everything
Fran (14:42):
and is more bad in molasses.
Hey, you know, ed, we're gonnahave to take a short break.
We'll be back in just a moment,uh, and talk more about.
This rather fascinating processof how rums really aren't all
equal.
And as rum becomes one of thetrendiest spirits among drinkers
of quality spirits, this isstuff that you should probably
know.
Our guest today.
Is Ed Hamilton, who is probablythe premier, uh, rum expert that
I know of anywhere.
(15:02):
Uh, he's written several bookson rum and, uh, we were talking
before about how some rum ismade from molasses and some rum
is made from sugarcane juice.
And, uh, why don't we, can wejust continue on with that, with
that narrative of, of how therum comes to be rum?
Ed (15:16):
Sure.
Once you.
Start out with a wine.
You take the raw ingredient thathas some sugar in it and you
ferment it, turn it into a wine,and then you distill it.
But one of the things that Ifound very fascinating, uh, was
that the reason that rum is rumis it's made from sugar.
(15:36):
Sucrose.
Sucrose is, sugarcane is themost available source of sucrose
that we have.
When we make distilled spiritsfrom grains, for example, we
have to add enzymes and cookthem and do all kinds of things
to convert the glucose tosucrose before we can ferment.
(15:57):
When you take out those stepsand you ferment the sucrose
directly, you crush the canejuice, it'll start fermenting in
the field.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
So you have sucrose fermenting right away,
Ed (16:06):
right away,
Fran (16:07):
and that's a good thing or a bad thing?
Ed (16:09):
Well, it's a good thing if you have it in a controlled
condition right away.
If you cut the cane and just layit, lay out in the field for a
couple of days, it's not realgood.
But you can solve that problemby making sugar out of it first,
extract the sugar, end up withmolasses, and then you distill.
Everything out of it to likebetter than 90% alcohol,
(16:29):
typically 94, 95, 90 4% alcohol.
You've distilled everything outof it.
You've then you start out withessentially a neutral spirit.
And then you,
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I mean, we don't drink rum at 90, 90% alcohol,
right?
Ed (16:41):
No.
But then we just dilute it to40% alcohol and put in a bottle
and call it rum.
Fran (16:47):
Well, and you know, it's very similar to the, the same
problems faced by grape growers.
When we talk about an estatebottled wine that's, that's
bottled on the estate, um, whatthey do is.
When if they pick those grapesand they don't go crush them
right away, fermentation beginsin the field in an uncontrolled
way.
And so that harvesting and thengetting it into where you can
make it into wine, same for rumas it is for making wine.
(17:07):
You've gotta be very carefulthat doesn't happen in an
uncontrolled way.
We'll be back after the newstalking with Ed Hamilton about
rum.
Rum.
The rums that are available inAmerica today are better than
have been available in many,many years.
And if you don't know much aboutthem, you should.
ed Hamilton.
Is one of our favorite expertson spirits of any sort, and he's
an expert on rum.
He's written several books onthe topic He's written, the Rums
(17:28):
of the Eastern Caribbean and theComplete Guide to Rum.
You can find out more aboutthose books by logging onto our
website, restaurant guysradio.com.
But you can find it even more byjust listening to the radio, so
don't touch that dial
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Ed, we were talking before about rums made from
sugar cane versus rums made frommolasses.
As a consumer, how do we knowwhich is which?
How do we know by sitting outlooking at the bottle on the
shelf, which rum we shouldchoose?
Ed (17:51):
The only way that you can be guaranteed that it's rum made
from sugar cane juice as opposedto sugar cane, which generally
implies it's a molasses basedrum, is you have to find a
bottle from the French Islandsand it'll say Rum, agri coal,
but that's not enough.
Also, look for the rumsAppalachian, the origin control.
(18:12):
My French is horrible.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
You did fine.
Ed (18:15):
Look for a OC.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, like the wines, you know,the better wines.
I'll have an a OC mark on them.
There are other rums that arecoming to the market, uh, that
have all kinds of otherdesignations that some of them
don't even exist beyond the, uh,bottlers imagin.
Fran (18:33):
You know, actually, I, I, you, you disabused me of some
misinformation and I was madbecause I'm, I'm pretty good
about choosing labeling and I'mpretty savvy when it comes to
most spirits.
Uh, but I, I really admittedlydon't, didn't know much about
Roman and I still don't, exceptthat I'm reading your books now.
let's talk about how labels canbe misleading.
What They can say one thing andmean another.
Ed (18:49):
Well, the, the alcohol.
Now that's called the TTV.
It used to be the A TF, but theygot a makeover.
Uh, they have certainregulations to be called
sugarcane rum, for example.
Uh, isn't misleading at all.
It's made from sugarcane.
That product from Mount Gay isone of their better products,
and although I.
(19:10):
Like the sugarcane juice rums,uh, there are many good molasses
based rums out there, and Idrink a number of'em and, uh,
they're on my list of favoriterums.
The Malka sugarcane rum isactually a molasses based rum.
In Barbados, they call itsugarcane brandy, but in the US
they can't call it brandybecause it's rum.
(19:31):
So it, even though it is amolasses based rum, it's called
sugarcane rum, and it is madefrom sugarcane.
It's just not made fromsugarcane juice.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Mm-hmm.
And now, so the mount gay rum isa rum.
I happen to like, okay.
And it's made from molasses asopposed to, to sugarcane juice.
But there are, there are someother troubling things on labels
as far as rum goes.
And actually, again, ed, you,you brought this to my
attention, uh, the Bacardieight.
Ans now it says Bacardi eightseight ans translated means eight
(20:01):
year aged, Bacardi.
Can, can you tell me exactlywhat that
Ed (20:04):
means?
Well, it almost translate tothat ocho ans translates to
eight years.
Mm-hmm.
It doesn't say aged eight years.
It just says eight.
Ans
Fran (20:16):
Yeah.
Ed (20:17):
So that in order to be an age statement, according to the
TTB and the label Nazis inWashington DC it has to say aged
so many years and the format isaged X years where X is the
number of years.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
So Bacardi eight ans is not actually eight years old.
Ed (20:35):
No.
And they don't even claim it tobe.
Oh,
Speaker 2 (20:37):
I think it's a little misleading.
So what is it made by an8-year-old?
I mean, come, come on.
Ed (20:41):
It's a trade name.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, right.
Well, I, I have a little, it's atrade name.
My trade name is Greatest radioPersonality in the world.
Fran (20:49):
And stick to it.
I'll, alright, let's talk to usabout, about another, um,
another, uh, big difference inrums between the clear rums and,
and the medium color rums anddark rums.
What does that tell us aboutrum?
Ed (21:02):
Uh, the color really doesn't tell you much unless you read
the label and know a little bitmore about the rum.
Uh, for example, most white rumsare aged at at least some period
of time if they're made frommolasses, because when you
distill molasses, which is highin sulfur, you have to distill
(21:23):
it to a very high proof.
And even though you distill itto a high proof, if you just
bottle it right outta the still,you end up with a bite and the
finish.
And that's undesirable.
Mm-hmm.
So most distillers will age it acertain period of time, and then
they'll carbon filter it toremove the color and end up with
a white rum.
However, if the rum comes fromthe French islands and says rum,
(21:45):
agri pole, and has a OC uh, markon it, then it is not aged at
all.
But it's made from sugarcane,juice, wine.
Mm-hmm.
As opposed to molasses, so itdoesn't have that sulfur bite.
Fran (21:56):
And, and what about the dark rums, like the, like the
myers dark rum?
Where does that color come from?
Ed (22:01):
Uh, from copious amounts of caramel coloring.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
You know, I always And the coloring, that would be
the same stuff they put inCoca-Cola, right?
Ed (22:07):
Yes.
Very
Fran (22:08):
similar.
Is there a way to make a rumthat dark naturally?
Ed (22:11):
Uh, not really.
It can be aged.
And one of the other problemswhen you age, uh, spirits,
typically the molasses basedrums come out of the, still at
more than 90% alcohol.
They're aged at about 80%alcohol and used, uh, bourbon
and whiskey barrels.
Mm-hmm.
When it comes out of the barrel,it's somewhere 75, 70 8%
(22:34):
alcohol.
When those rums are bottled,they're bottled at 40% alcohol.
So you're diluting the alcohol,you're also diluting the color.
Fran (22:41):
Well, let me throw out, because this is, this is a
process.
The diluting of the alcohol is aprocess called rectification,
and I will always remember thatin France, whenever I went to
visit a place where they weredistilling brandy or armc or
cognac, um, they were veryconcerned about rectifying the
spirit very slowly, a little bitevery day to.
Bring that spirit down.
And then I went, uh, to, tovisit my friend, Colonel Elmer t
(23:03):
Lee in, in Kentucky, inFrankfurt, Kentucky.
And we, we, we toured somebourbon distilleries and they do
their rectification like all inone.
They just, if it's, if it's 80proof and they want it to be 40
proof, they half water throw inhalf water that day is, and
what, what struck me.
But the French say is that youshouldn't rectify very quickly
because then you make thedistillery smell good, but
you're taking a lot of the smellout of the, out of the spirit.
(23:24):
Whereas the, the Kentuckians arelike, oh, just put the water in
there.
Doesn't matter.
There's some smell in therealready.
What do you think?
Ed (23:30):
I think it needs to be done slowly, but it also depends on
the water, which is one of thereasons that I feel it's very
important to buy a distilledspirit that's made, that's
bottled at the distillery.
Mm-hmm.
Where the people care there,you're gonna get.
Something that's been diluted orrectified with the real water,
with the best water that theycan find.
(23:51):
Mm-hmm.
In Kentucky, they're known fortheir water, and that's one of
the reasons to make Kentuckybourbons and whiskeys so good.
Uh, if that spirit is beingshipped in bulk to a third
party, his whole goal in life isto get that high proof spirit in
one door.
Get it in bottles and out theother door.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
And you guy, any, any of our listeners have heard us
say this a thousand times.
Water is an ingredient.
Okay.
It's a very, very importantingredient.
And, and again, I'll say it's animportant ingredient in those,
in those New York City bagels.
It's an important ingredient inthe Kentucky bourbon.
It's an important ingredient inthe Italian pasta.
It is a very, very importantingredient.
Fran (24:28):
But, but I will tell you that I was at, I was at the
distillery, I was at ancient ageand when they were rectifying
and, and throughout Kentucky,the way they.
As far as I know, they don'trectify slowly in Kentucky.
And one of the, one of thethings they say in, in that
people who rectify slowly say iswhen you put water into a spirit
very quickly, you release a lotof the aromas.
And one of the things that I'vealways been taught, and I
really, that I always practiceis no matter how great the
(24:50):
spirit to drop in a little bitof ice or a little bit of water
in your glass, if you'redrinking it straight, really
releases the nose.
Does that happen with rum?
How, how should we drink rum?
Ed (24:58):
Absolutely.
Well, good rums you drink on therocks.
Uh, the old aged rums.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, the younger rums I mix inwith the French rums.
I mix in a drink called a teapunch, a petite punch with a
little bit of sugarcane syrupand a little slice of lime could
compliment the rum not to coverit up.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, there are other sugarcanejuice spirits like TOAs, which,
(25:20):
uh, tasted some very good ones.
Uh, I've tasted others that Ireally don't care to drink, but
when you make a kaiperuniversally, you add a lot of
sugar and a lot of lime, we,there's a reason for that.
Fran (25:33):
We're gonna give you the recipe for Nia when we come
back.
We'll be back in just a moment.
Uh, Kini is a drink.
It's from Brazil, and it's madewith a very particular kind of
rum called Kasa.
We know a lot of people thatmake it with.
Uh, regular rum with other kindsof rum.
Uh, but we'll give you therecipe for that on the air and,
and we'll put it up on ourwebsite in just a moment.
Our, our, our, later on today,our guest is Ed Hamilton.
He's an, he's an expert on rum.
He's written several books onrum and, and we'll be talking
(25:54):
more with him about the topic injust a moment.
Hey everybody.
Welcome back.
You're listening to theRestaurant Guys, mark and
Francis.
Our guest today is Ed Hamilton.
He is, uh, an expert in rum.
He's the founder of the Ministryof Rum and he spent the last 15
years cruising on his sloop,continuously gathering data on
rum history and manufacturers.
It's a hell of a job, butsomebody's gotta do it.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
And a moment ago, we, we were talking about kisa
versus rum and, a nice gentlemanbrought me a, uh, a kisa from
Rio de Janeiro.
It almost had a, a green hue toit.
Very, very interesting kisa.
But maybe you could tell us alittle bit of the difference
between these two products, rumand Kisa.
Ed (26:28):
Well, in the US.
Uh, KSA is called RUM in Brazil.
KSA is called ksa.
And in order to be called rum,it has to have some, uh,
component of a molasses basedspirit blended with it.
KSA differs from the rums thatwe know most of the other rums
that we know.
In that it is distilled to about40, 45% alcohol by volume.
(26:52):
Mm-hmm.
Which means that it has, uh,quite a bit of residual FU oils
and other things that, uh,weren't distilled out of it.
Mm-hmm.
There are somewhere over around30,000, uh, different people
making K in Brazil.
So there's a lot of variation inthe quality and.
(27:13):
And how it's done.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
We have seen a lot of variation.
Some, some of the KSAs that areavailable in the American market
gasoline are gasoline.
No.
I'd rather actually gasoline'smuch better.
Yeah,
Fran (27:24):
well you were talking about a drink before called the
Caina.
And a caina is uh uh, thetraditional drink of Brazil and
the, what you do with that isyou basically take some sugar.
Uh, some limes, about half alime in the bottom of a Collins
glass, and you just muddle withsugar in the limes all together.
And it's important to use thewhole limes because when you do
that, you get the juice of thelime, but you also get a little
bit of oil from the outside ofthe skin.
And you get a little bitternessfrom the pith of the, of the
(27:45):
lime
Speaker 2 (27:46):
and cut your limes into wedges like you, like You
would hang'em on the edge of a
Fran (27:48):
drink and you muddle that all together.
And then you pour, traditionallyyou pour kasa on top of that.
There's the drink everybody, andyou just, well, you gotta shake
it and you shake it like thedickens.
And so you get a lot of melt inthere.
And it's related to a daiquiri,actually similar to a daiquiri.
Um, but we, if KSA is a littlerough for you, you can make that
same drink with rum.
I'll tell you, it's a verypowerful drink and it doesn't
(28:10):
taste like it.
So be very careful.
So Ed, what's your feeling oncocktail rum cocktails overall,
Ed (28:15):
I love rum cocktails.
Fran (28:17):
What's not
Ed (28:18):
to love about Rum cocktail?
Fran (28:19):
Nothing.
But can people ruin, I mean, dopeople, do you see people
sometimes taking a rum that'sreally too good to make into a
cocktail and making it into acocktail?
Ed (28:27):
Uh, absolutely.
I see people making, taking goodrum and mixing it with a lot of
really bad ingredients.
Mm-hmm.
And I meet people all the time,I'm sure you do too, that say,
oh, we only use freshingredients and fresh juices and
all this, and then they pour insome horrible rum in on top of
it.
Mm-hmm.
Or worship, some flavoredmolasses based rum that
(28:49):
shouldn't even be called rum.
Yeah.
Fran (28:51):
You know, one of the things that we, when we talk
about cocktails all the time, Imean, and sort of the pretender
to the throne.
Cocktail bars are all aboutvodka based drinks.
Vodka doesn't taste likeanything.
Okay?
And so when you make a cocktailout of vodka, it's for somebody
who doesn't want to taste anyliquor.
And that's sort of a cocktail.
It's sort of not.
It's, it's a cocktail forsomeone who doesn't really like
to drink liquor.
(29:11):
Um, and I guess that's oneschool of thought, but the real
cocktails, the Dale Degra of theworld, the Audrey Saunders of
the world, the Gary Regans ofthe world.
Um.
You make a drink with rum or ginor whiskey, and that becomes
opponent a component of thefinal flavor of the cocktail
because you, it's part of thecharacter of the cocktail
Speaker 2 (29:28):
you
Fran (29:28):
want.
It's not just for the alcohol,it
Speaker 2 (29:30):
is for the flavor that's in that and, and
Fran (29:32):
in the summertime especially, you're looking for
the flavor of the rum to be partof the flavor of that final
cocktail.
I mean, do you, don't you findthat to be the case, ed?
Ed (29:39):
Absolutely.
And I feel very fortunate tohave been able to be served by,
uh, some great people all overthe country.
You know, in, in the islands.
I typically drank a couple ofdifferent cocktails.
One is a tea punch and uh, Idon't really remember what the
other one was.
Fran (29:56):
Well now you, um, in the tea punch, you, you talk about
sugar cane syrup, and you reallygave us a revelation when we met
at the, at the Museum of theAmerican Cocktail event.
You said, oh, you've never hadthe, the true cane syrup.
'cause we use simple syrup inthe restaurant all the time,
which is simple.
Syrup is just sugar water.
That, that, if you really wannamake great cocktails, you have
to have behind your bar.
But then you sent us some, somecane syrup.
(30:17):
Tell us the difference aboutthose two ingredients and, and
how they might be useddifferently and what makes a
cane syrup special.
Ed (30:23):
Well, real cane syrup.
Uh, when I started bringing, uh,rum, agrico to the US and
drinking it here in the US I waslooking for a good cane syrup
and so I had everybody that Icould find send me a bottle of
their syrup because I reallydidn't wanna import cane syrup.
Nothing tasted like sugar cane.
Everything that I found.
(30:45):
Either tasted like nothing, uh,like sugar, water, or molasses.
Uh, the cane syrup that I sentyou is made in Martinique by a
traditional method.
That's the way they do it.
They start out with raw sugarcane sugar.
And it in the sugar makingprocess, there are many
different, uh, grades of sugar.
(31:05):
This is the first sugar thatcomes off and basically it's the
first stable sugar.
When they reconstitute that withwater and make it into a syrup,
it's 68% sugar.
Sugar is a preservative.
Mm-hmm.
And years ago they called itpreserved.
She took any kind of fruit oranything and made it put lot of
sugar with it.
It was a preserved so.
What you have is 68% sugar.
(31:27):
You can put it on the counter,leave the top off it.
The fruit flies will come in,but it isn't gonna ferment
because it's got so much sugarin it.
Fran (31:33):
And then you'll have preserved fruit flies if they
get stuck in there.
Yeah,
Ed (31:36):
and they're good.
Taste the protein and all that.
Fran (31:38):
We'll not do that here, but thanks for the advice on
that one.
We'll put the top the cap on.
Put the tap on the bottle.
But it's good to know,
Ed (31:44):
but it gives you, it adds a lot of flavor to the drink
besides.
Being sweetener, but it alsodoesn't dilute the drink.
Mm-hmm.
Because you only use a littlebit.
Well, I started doing, uh, teapunches in New York.
Bartenders said, we've gottaknow how much.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Mm-hmm.
Ed (32:02):
And so I poured some of the glass and I said that much.
And then they couldn't pour itoutta the glass to measure it.
Fran (32:08):
Oh.
Because it was
Speaker 2 (32:09):
so thick.
Because it has a density.
And like, uh,
Fran (32:12):
we have to take a, we have to take a short break.
We'll be back in just a momentwith, uh, rum expert Ed
Hamilton.
(32:38):
We were talking at the breakabout cocktails and, and, uh, ed
has a great, good fortune ofbeing able to live his life, uh,
on a sloop in the Caribbean.
But you, you, we were talkingabout the state of the cocktail
in the United States and, andwhat's your perspective on rum
and cocktails at.
Ed (32:51):
They're getting much better
Fran (32:52):
in America.
Ed (32:53):
Right.
Uh, now when you ask for rum,the bartender doesn't
automatically hand you rum andcoke.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Which is a good thing.
And then I found
Speaker 2 (33:00):
anything, anything, not giving you anything mixed
with Coke is a good thing.
Right.
Ed (33:04):
Well, then traveling around the country, uh, I was
introduced to all kinds ofwonderful cocktails by people
that took this all veryseriously.
And of course, I've been toAudrey's place and you know, the
things that come out acrossAudrey Saunders
Speaker 2 (33:17):
is the Peggy Club.
Ed (33:18):
Right.
Everything that comes acrossthat bar is phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah.
Ed (33:22):
But then I found other people in other bars like the
brand new library.
I was just blown away by thequality of the rum cocktails,
and now wherever I go, peoplesay, well, ed, you know, try
this.
Fran (33:32):
We only have, we only have about a minute left, but can you
tell us what, at the, at theBrandy Library, what, what's the
cocktail that blew you away?
Be
Ed (33:38):
kiss
Fran (33:39):
what's in a bees kiss.
Ed (33:40):
Beas kiss is cream, a little bit of honey, and it used to be
made with white rum and darkrum.
Now they're using an aged rumfrom Martinique, and then they
dust it to whip it all up, shakeit with ice, pour a champagne
glass and then dust it withfreshly grated cinnamon.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Nice.
Fran (33:56):
Wow.
What's the age rum forMartinique that they're using?
Ed (33:59):
My favorite Eat Rum view.
Fran (34:00):
Okay.
We're gonna go and have one ofthose for lunch.
Uh, ed, thanks for being on theshow.
It was great to have you talkingabout rum.
Will you come back and talk withus about rum again?
Sure.
Super.
Thanks so much Ed.
Ed Hamilton.
You can find out more about him.
You can find out the recipes forBees Kiss.
You can find out a couple ofother RUM cocktail recipes on
our website, restaurant guysradio.com.
Or you can come into CatherineLombardi at our cocktail bar
where we make a bunch of these.
(34:21):
And, uh, just fascinating,fascinating topic.
I hope that you've enjoyedlistening to us this hour.
I love Rome.
I do too.
You know, I do too.
And, and this, thisorganization, the Ministry of
Rome.
I feel like we should have donetwo shows with, I wish we had a
two hour show, because this isactually pretty interesting
stuff and it's, and it's new tome because I, I know about a lot
of kinds of spirits and learningabout Rome is, is, is fairly
new, but I'll have to leave thatfor another day.
(34:41):
I hope you've enjoyed the hourlistening to the restaurant.
Guys.
I'm Francis Sean.
And I'm Mark Pascal.
We are the restaurant guys.
Central Jersey 1450 to time is12 noon.
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