Kate Krader on Food & Wine’s Cocktail Book *V* - The Restaurant Guys

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mark (00:41):
Hey there, mark.
How are you?
Hey, you.
I'm good, man.

Francis (00:43):
I, uh, I had a lovely, we both took nights off last
night and I went to the PeguClub and I had brilliant
cocktails and excellent service.
Then I went to Hearth Restaurantin Manhattan where Paul Greco,
who's gonna come on the show, isthe owner.
And Hailey Rose is, she's thesommelier I believe there.
Um, they were both there and Ijust, we wandered in, got a
table, had a wonderful meal, andthen ended up the evening with

(01:05):
an old fashioned at a greatlittle bar called.
Angels share, which makesclassic perfect cocktails.
I had great service all night.
People were really nice to me.
It was just terrific.
Sounds

Mark (01:16):
awesome.
How

Francis (01:17):
was your

Mark (01:17):
night?
I went to a cheesy New JerseyItalian restaurant and hated
every minute of it.
My wife, I heard that's why thatwas a setup.
Everybody, my wife and I got asitter and so we needed to stay
close to home'cause the baby isstill well, a, a baby and, and
all.
And, uh, so we wanted to befairly close to home and we
succeeded in the close to homepart.

(01:38):
Yeah, that was really good.
Yeah.
Uh, you know, something, there'sjust some things, uh, about
certain restaurants, and thisisn't, this is, we see this in
the entire country.
We don't just see this in NewJersey, but just certain things
in restaurants that I don'tunderstand why they're
acceptable.
I don't understand why.
We go to restaurants like thisand why people accept these

(02:00):
things.
And I, and I guess, uh,truthfully, it, it's why we get
as many compliments as we do in,in our restaurants because a lot
of restaurants out there.
I I, I'll tell you the, the cruxof my feeling and I'll, I'll go
over the individual experiences,but the, the, the heart of, of
what happened is I felt like noone cared if I had a good time
or not.

(02:20):
Yeah.
In the restaurant,

Francis (02:21):
you know, people will forgive a lot if they feel like
you're really trying and you'repaying attention to them and it,
and, and that they matter toyou.
'cause sometimes we do makemistakes and I think that
sometimes.
When we make mistakes, and Iknow as a patron when I'm out,
if I feel like there's somebodyreally trying and they just,
something screwed up, you know,you overcooked the steak and you
had to cook it again.
So I gotta wait longer if I feellike.
That's bothers you.
Mm-hmm.
That you care about me.

(02:43):
Uh, I'll cut you some more slackas opposed

Mark (02:45):
to you pissing me off or that it's an anomaly uhhuh
instead of just what happensevery day from day to day out.
So, sorry.
That's, so tell us whathappened.
I had a nine o'clock 9:00 PMreservation, which in Jersey is
a fairly late reservation.
Right.
For, for a lot of restaurants,especially Madrid, it's kind of
early, but in New Jersey it'sexactly, well, they, they put us
into the bar and said, oh, yourtable's not ready yet.
That's fine.
You know, I own a restaurant.

(03:06):
I understand things are busy.
It, it was a Friday night.
The, the night I went out.
I didn't actually go out lastnight.
And so we end up getting sat at9 55.
Well, we've ordered appetizersat the bar.
So your reservation's at nine,you show up at 9, 9 55, they
seat you.
9 55.
I get sat and you know me.
I'm, I'm looking at the time,I'm checking things out.
You have a baby at home?
I want, well, I wanna know whatthe norms are too.

(03:27):
I'm also, I'm also observing therestaurant.
Mm-hmm.
While I'm there.
Nobody says anything except yourtable's ready.
A hostess comes over and says,your table's ready.
And I think.
55 minutes.
That's a really long time towait for a table.
Generally, just from our pointof view, 15 minutes, you know,

(03:47):
to turn over a table, that's anormal amount of time.
Anything really past 15 minutesthat you're waiting for your
table.
We try to have your table whenyou get there, but of course, up
to 15 minutes I think is, youknow, is is reasonable.
Okay?
If you're 15 minutes late.
That's reasonable.
If I'm 15 minutes late, that'sreasonable.
After 15 minutes, there shouldbe somebody saying, oh my God,

(04:08):
you know, I'm, I'm sorry, thisisn't ready.
Which

Francis (04:10):
isn't say that that's not gonna happen in any
restaurant.
It's gonna happen a couple oftimes a year that you're gonna
just

Mark (04:14):
mess up.
And, and again, I'm gonna,everything that I'm talking
about as far as the things thathappen with this restaurant, all
would've been solved by a, youknow, I'm sorry that happened.
All would've been solved bysomebody just.
Giving a crap a crap.
So,

Francis (04:28):
so what happens after you sit?

Mark (04:30):
So, you know, the feel is that there's, there's just
nobody.
Really in charge of this place.
And that was obviously another,another problem.
But I, you know, I got sat in anaisle seat.
I'm a fairly big guy, as youobviously know.
I, I noticed, but I, I get satin the aisle and I'm kind of in
the way.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.

(04:50):
But there's not, but they satyou there, but there's not a lot
I can do about that.
Right.
Okay.
And, and I'm gonna tell you, andthis is, this is an actual
truth.
I didn't get kicked less than 30or 40 times by the waiters as
they walked past me.
Okay.
And again, did you kick back?
No.
No apology.
Mm-hmm.
No, I'm sorry.
No, excuse me.

(05:10):
Nothing.
They just kicked my chair andwent on their way.
Mm-hmm.
And I thought.
You know what you, if you kickedit once and you didn't notice
that you were kicking my chair,'cause you were in a hurry, I'd
say, okay, but, but you justkicked my chair 20, 30, maybe 40
times.
You kicked my chair during,during a meal where I'm got a
fork heading for my mouth andall of a sudden I'm, I'm jarred,

(05:33):
I'm shaking.
And, and again, I thought, okay,it's, you can't really fit
through the space because of,because of how big I am and
where you've put me.
But you didn't design the space.
But I didn't design the space.
And I'm the customer, you'vekicked me.
Right?
Right.
You need to say, I'm sorry.
Even if you don't mean it, yougotta

Francis (05:50):
say it.
See, now when I kick you, I'mintending intentionally doing
it.
So I don't think that I'mobligated to apologize.
I'm, it's like a,'cause I windup, you know?
And I go for the kick.
So what else happened?

Mark (06:01):
Well, it just, a lot of the the, and now I'm gonna talk
about some things that are moretypical of the.
The Jersey Italian stylerestaurant.
Mm-hmm.
You know, they, they give alitany of, of specials that are
not written down anywhere, soyou gotta memorize what they,
they have what the bill again.
Exactly.
What was the third specialagain?
And, and again, no prices.
And you just know that thosespecials are$10 more than

(06:24):
anything else on the menu.
Yeah, I'm, I'm not into thatthat much.
Alright.
And, and I'm gonna tell you thatthis, that this restaurant, the
food was pretty good.
Yeah.
You're not going back, are youokay?
I'll never go back.
there were so many differentlittle things like that, you
know, and, and, okay.
So I got something that wassupposed to have, uh, truffles
in it, and it had that faketruffle oil in it.
Mm-hmm.
You know, but it wasinexpensive, so I knew that I

(06:46):
was gonna get that.
Right.
Right.
You know, you offer me a$16, uh,gnocchi with that says truffles.
I, I know, because I know I'mnot getting truffles.
That's a, a nanogram.
I know.
Tr and I, I also noticed that,that the oil was kind of, that,
that fake oil.
The, not the real truffle oil.
'cause you can taste it if youmm-hmm.
Especially if you taste a lot oftruffle oil.

(07:07):
Hey man, 14 bucks.
You ain't getting truffles.
14 bucks.
You're never getting truffles.

Francis (07:10):
you raised a great point.
And whether it's, and, and we'veconsulted for a number of
different places and we lookedat buying a couple of different
places over the years and what,what, what is a common
denominator, whether it's thesports bar, the high-end
cocktail bar, the dive dump onthe corner.
Look, there was a guy named Bobwas, and I'll say, I'll say his
last name.
'cause he was a, he was a almosta celebrity in New Brunswick for

(07:31):
a long time.
Bob McGee was the bartendermm-hmm.
At the A in witch pub for many,many years.
I, I went into that bar.
For, you know, it's kind of adive bar and that's, and that's
no shot on them to throw somedarts and have a Guinness.
Mm-hmm.
But I went there because Bobalways, I felt that Bob, it was
really important to Bob.
And Bob was happy

Mark (07:51):
to see you.
Happy to see me.
And there you go.
You've touched on it.
Yeah.
Nobody at this restaurant that Iwent to was happy to see me.
I felt like they would've beenhappier if I had never come.

Francis (08:01):
Well, and look, they're gonna get their wish here.
See, maybe that,

Mark (08:06):
maybe that was what they wanted all along.
You know, I left that one moretiny little thing.
Uh, go ahead, keep fetching.
Okay.
It's good, it's fun.
I'm sorry, I, the, and I'm notgiving the name of the
restaurant because, because I, Idon't want to unless you email
him.
If you ask me personally, I'lllet it all out.
Go ahead.
But, but it rhymes with, but.

(08:27):
I, I paid for a bottle of wineand my appetizers are at the
bar.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Whatever it was.
80 bucks, 90 bucks, a hundredbucks, whatever I spent on, on,
mm-hmm.
Two little appetizers and, andmy bottle of wine.
When my, my check came,everything was on the check,
including the bottle of wine onthe app.
That you'd already paid for it?
That I'd already paid for it.
Oh.
Again, no apology.
No nothing.
Come on.

(08:48):
They you put, you just spent ahundred bucks on, on my check.
Tried to charge me twice.
Wow.
And you didn't say, I'm sorry.
And you didn't say, I'm sorry.
And that was the problem.
You didn't care.

Francis (08:56):
Well, I'm sorry you all had to listen to this Living age
out there in restaurant.
Listen, we care.
We care.
We'll be back in just a momenttalking about happier things
with Kate Crater from Food andWine Magazine.
We'll be talking about cocktailsin just a moment.
You're listening to theRestaurant guys, central Jersey
1450.
Hey everybody.
Welcome back here listening tothe Restaurant guys, mark and
Francis of Stage Left andCapital Lombardi Restaurants in
downtown New Brunswick.
Our guest today is Kate Crater.

(09:18):
Kate's been on before and shereturns to talk about cocktails
among other things with us.
She is a senior.
Editor at Food and Wine Magazineoverseeing news, trend and
restaurant coverage.
She's also the editor of thefood and Wine cocktail section
and has contributed to many offood and wine's.
Other books we have, I have inmy hand a Food and Wine
Cocktails 2006, over 150 of thebest drinks and snacks from the

(09:41):
hottest bars, plus the EssentialAmerican Nightlife Guide.
This is one heck of a book here,Kate,

Kate (09:46):
isn't it?
Excellent.

Francis (09:47):
It's awesome.
You are responsible for this?

Kate (09:50):
Um, I'd like to say I'm completely responsible for it,
and I will tell you that I'vetasted every single cocktail in
this book, but, um, but we have,I have a whole fantastic team
that works with me.
It's

Francis (09:59):
all about the team.
Did you taste them all in oneafternoon?

Kate (10:02):
Can you imagine?
Um, no.
We spread it out over a littlebit, but, um, but there's some
days where we tasted like 20cocktails.
Mm-hmm.
When it was very hard to go backto your desk and try and edit.

Francis (10:12):
You know, it's funny, we do, we do wine tastings, a
lot.
And we recently put together acocktail program for the new
restaurant that we opened,Uhhuh.
And you know, you get it alldown, you do the research, you
put up the list, and then itcome, it's go time, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And you need to make it.
And we spent a few days where wedid 20 or 30 cocktails in the
afternoon.
And you try and sip and spit,but Right.
It ain't like wine, man.
It's hard.
You can, this tincture

Mark (10:32):
needs a little more, you know, a little more cinnamon.
You know, those kinds of things.
You, you have to taste them.
You have to taste them.
The cocktail.
And then you have to sip again.
Mm-hmm.
And the really good ones youwanna finish.

Francis (10:41):
Right?
Exactly.
Then you get back to your deskand sleep.
Now, um, the cocktails 2006, howlong has this been guide been
coming out?

Kate (10:47):
Um, actually last year was our first year.
My, um, my boss editor in ChiefData Cow and had a great idea
that, um, that we should dococktails.
And so not only, is it afantastic, um, kind of cookbook
of cocktail recipes with allthese.
Excellent cocktails that youwanna drink all year long, but
the back is the kind of guide tothe best nightlife.
Where we got, where we picked upthese cocktail recipes from,

(11:09):
because we actually gathered therecipes from great bars,
restaurants, and lounges acrossthe country.
So not only do you get thesegreat recipes, but you know
where to go.
Like if you're in Portland,Oregon, or if you're in.
Where you wanna go and drink.

Mark (11:21):
I, I'll tell you, Kate, I'll be very frank.
Mm-hmm.
I generally don't like the, whenthe magazines do these kind of
compilation books of, of the endof the year, you know, bring all
the chefs together.
Uh, I, I generally don't, don'tenjoy those, uh, very well.
But this is a great book withsome real cocktails in here.
Most, uh, you know, in, in goingthrough and, and checking out
the ingredients of.

(11:42):
Of these cocktails, uh,generally when you have a
compilation book, you, somebodyslides in who's kind of got a
woowoo or, you know, somethinglike that going on in the book.
And, and I don't see any ofthose cocktails in this book.
And I, and I, I thought that waspretty impressive.

Kate (11:56):
Thank you for saying that.
You know what, it's not likethey're not out there.
They definitely are out there,but we've, we don't want people
to necessarily.
You don't, we don't wanna tellpeople to make those at home.

Mark (12:04):
Right.
I don't think I saw a blue drinkin the whole book.

Kate (12:06):
There might be one blue drink.
There's actually a really fundrink that has, um, that has a
Swedish candy fish in it.
Um, that I kind of love thatdrink.
I can't remember what the nameof it is, but I mean, there's a
few things that.
I would call Clever that somepeople might call gimmicky.
Yeah, Uhhuh.
You know, it is.
It's a drink called Finding Nemofrom Sidebar in San Diego, and
it is unfortunately lightlyblue.
Oh, you,

Speaker 2 (12:27):
you've blew up your book.

Kate (12:28):
I blew up my book, sorry.
But I just put one.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Okay, fair enough.

Francis (12:31):
Now, how did you go about collecting these great
cocktails and they're from allacross the country and you
credit the bars where they comefrom?
I mean, would, did you solicitsubmissions or did you.
Ask your local writers, how didyou, how did you come up with
them?
We

Kate (12:42):
did.
That's such a good question.
We actually did both.
We, and when we travel, we justmake a point of going to as many
bars as possible.

Francis (12:50):
I do the same.
We do do the same thing.
I'm not writing a book though.
I just, I just like them.

Kate (12:54):
We have to get your recommendations.
Maybe next year we can even putNew Brunswick, New Jersey in
here.
I, wow.

Francis (12:58):
I'm all in big time.
The

Kate (13:00):
destination

Francis (13:00):
I'm all in.
Well, but we

Kate (13:01):
definitely, we, we also have stringers across the
country who recommend becausewe, we want, um, the, the places
that we recommend aren'tnecessarily new because, you
know, those new bars don'talways last.
Mm-hmm.
But we want them to be great orcool or have something to
recommend them.
So some of them are new.
Some of them have been fantasticdestinations for a long time
now, and some of them.
You know, they all representsomething good for us.

(13:21):
Did you,

Francis (13:22):
did you encounter any, uh, any situations where there
was a bar that wanted to put acertain cocktail in as, as their
submission and you were like,no, no.
I can't do that with the Applepucker.
Can't do it.

Kate (13:32):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
No, no.
Um, gold swagger.
Well let, um, we yeah.
People, um.
There's definitely, no matterhow good the bar is, you know,
no matter what, people are stillserving a lot of cosmopolitans.
Mm-hmm.
And so you have to winnow outthe recipes that you want.
Mm-hmm.
But, um, but bartenders,everybody, the bar managers have
all been fantastically helpfulfor us.

Mark (13:51):
But you're an editor, this shouldn't be a

Francis (13:53):
big deal.

Kate (13:53):
No, it's, yeah.
You can make it work.

Francis (13:55):
And is this gonna be an annual thing going forward?
Food in one?
Yeah, I think so.

Kate (13:58):
We're really, I mean, even though we think this is really
the year of the cocktail.
Um, I think it's, it's the kindof thing, it, it gives us this
great opportunity to find outwhat's going on and what people
are drinking because cocktailsare in fact a little bit of
mirror of the way people arecooking now.
Like we found a lot of reallygreat cocktails have herbs in
them.
People are doing like gin andtonics with tarun and um, and

(14:19):
we're seeing like herbs anddesserts too.
I think it.
I think in some ways, like youcan't draw a whole bunch of
parallels, but there'sdefinitely a correlation between
how much fun and what kind ofsophisticated drinks people are
making and what they're doingwith their food and other, you
know, in other areas.

Francis (14:33):
And you say it's the year of the cocktail.
Can you elaborate on that alittle bit for us?

Kate (14:36):
Yeah.
We, we just feel like, um.
At food and Wine, we feel like,um, this year, 2006 is a time
when cocktails have really comeinto their own, where a lot of
restaurants have set up veryserious bar programs and they've
installed kind of destinationbartenders, like people who make
their own tonic water.
It's not even like squeezingfresh juice anymore.
That's, that's so 2005, right,right.

(14:57):
You've gotta make your own,you've gotta make your

Francis (14:59):
own tincture of CLO where you're not really cool.
Exactly.

Kate (15:02):
That's exactly right.
Um, so we feel like we've just,we're just seeing so many people
doing that and, um.
And doing it, not, not to begimmicky, but really because
people's, you know, drinkinghabits have just gotten
sophisticated.

Francis (15:13):
Actually, when we come back, I want to talk more about,
about bars and bartenders makingtheir own ingredients and stuff
that you can make at home.
It's probably easier for abartender to do it, but we'll be
talking more with that in just amoment.
Kate Crater is a senior editorto.
Food and Wine Magazine and she'slargely responsible for food and
wine Cocktails 2006, which is agreat guide to cocktails.
You can learn more about it bygoing to our
website@restaurantguysradio.com.
Back in just a moment, Kate, wewere, we were talking before the

(15:35):
break about destinationbartenders making their own
ingredients.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, it, it's not justgimmicky.
We came out with, um, we, we,um, wanted to use Grenadine in a
couple of old drinks.
'cause I like, I likeresurrecting old drinks in, in
Catherine Lombardi.
Mm-hmm.
Our place.
Oh, great.
And, you know, granite wasoriginally made from Pomegranate
Uhhuh, and.
You, I mean, the current stuffis just red sweet stuff filled

(15:57):
with corn syrup.
Yeah.
It, it's like

Mark (15:58):
buying the pre-made Mr.
Tea sour mix.
Pretty much.
It's, it really is to use it asan ingredient.

Francis (16:03):
And so what we did, and what I found out that, uh,
Nicholas Ferrari did,independent of us who owns a
restaurant called RestaurantNicholas here in Jersey as well,
we've made our own Grenadinethat really tastes like
something.
Mm-hmm.
Isn't that great?
And you, you have to make itbecause it, it, it doesn't
exist.
It's not just

Mark (16:17):
red and sweet.

Francis (16:18):
Yeah.
So, but you're seeing a lot moreof that out there.

Kate (16:21):
Yeah, we're seeing a lot of, we're seeing, I don't know
if this is a long lasting trend,quite frankly, because I don't
know if it's like time-wise ormoney-wise worth everybody's
effort to do it, especiallybecause I think mixers are like
what you can get commercially.
There's a lot of bad grenadine,but people are starting to make
a lot more bitters.
Mm-hmm.
You can see much more kind ofcustom made and, and very tasty

(16:42):
bitters on the market now.
Yep.
But definitely there's a wholetrend right now in bar chefs.
Like they're called bar chefs.
They're not even calledbartenders.
Mm-hmm.
They're called bar chefs andthey make like they've been
making tonic water, they've beengetting quinine and making tonic
water.
Sure.
They've been totally likefollowing you guys and making
grenadine and things like that,and it makes a huge, fantastic
difference in the drink.

(17:02):
Well, right

Mark (17:02):
now we're carrying about 20 different bidders and.
And each one Wow.
Has a different flavor profile,really Uhhuh and, and each one
should be used for a differentpurpose.
Mm-hmm.
I think it's, it's an ingredientjust like the whiskeys different
than the scotch is differentthan the gin uhhuh.
And that the different gins aredifferent, the different bitters
are different.
Mm-hmm.

Francis (17:19):
You know, and I remember when I first started
bartending, they taught me thata Manhattan, which is a very
basic drink, was uh, made withrye and sweet remove.
There was no mention of Bitters.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and if there was onebottle of Bitters behind the
bar, it had been open since thebar opened 20 years before and
it was actually solid on theinside of the bottle.
Oh my God.
And you know, to see what youknow, because it was the old
Anur was what you'd have.

(17:39):
And then maybe Anur and PEs,which are the two bitters, but.
Bitters are really integral tomaking a cocktail.
Hey, listen, we'll come backafter the news and talk more
with Kate Crater from Food andWine about cocktails and the
new, uh, cocktail guide fromFood and Wine Cocktails 2006.

Mark (17:53):
Our

Francis (17:53):
guest today is Kate Crater.
She's the senior editor at Foodand Wine Magazine and she
oversees, uh, their reporting onnews trends and restaurant
coverage.
She's also the editor of theFood and Wine Cocktail section.
She is a taken the lead in thisnew book, which is Food and Wine
Cocktails 2006.
It's a guide of over 150 of thebest drinks and snacks, all from
the hottest bars, plus anessential guide to American

(18:15):
nightlife.
Um, now we talked earlier aboutthis being, you mentioned that
it was sort of the year of thecocktail, and this is indeed, by
many accounts.
The two, 2006 is the 200thanniversary of the American
cocktail, and even the Museum ofthe American Cocktail has put on
a bit of a celebration to,celebrate that sort of thing.
Are you involved in any of thatstuff?

Kate (18:32):
No.
I wish we are.
I wish we were.
We definitely, we, I we're gonnaattend some of those events for
sure, but I didn't realize itwas the 200th anniversary.
That's excellent.

Francis (18:40):
Well, there's a, there's a, it, it's sort of the
200th anniversary now.
No one knows when the cocktailwas invented to, to begin with.
Right.
But.
It seems as though the firstmention had always been
considered.
Two.
2006 was the first time.
1806.
I'm sorry.
1806 was the first time I'm herefor you.
A cocktail had been mentioned inprint Uhhuh.
Um, but they, so they, they, theMuseum of the American Cocktail

(19:01):
is launching this by cityCelebration, which we're gonna
go to and cover.
We'll be there with ourmicrophone.
Right.
Good work.
Uh, we're gonna do the New Yorkone and, that's, this coming
month, but.
What happened at the end of lastyear was a new reference, uh,
came about from 1803 that wasjust discovered.

Mark (19:18):
Whoops.
So it's the 203rd anniversary ofthe cocktail.
Exactly.
But the invitations were alreadyprinted, so we're going with it.
You know what I

Francis (19:24):
mean?
Now you've seen.
Cocktails, you, you saycocktails are sort of rising to
the level of food with,bartenders calling themselves.
Bar chefs mm-hmm.
Are youre Now that was the firstguy that I knew that did, that
was a guy named Albert Remer ata place called Town in
Manhattan.
Mm-hmm.
And he had printed on his cardbar Chef Uhhuh instead of
bartender.
And he really was,'cause allthis stuff that he made himself.

(19:44):
And he really constructed hiscocktails very carefully, as
carefully as any appetizer.
Um, are people really using thatterm across the country?

Kate (19:51):
People Are there another, another, um.
Popular term is mixologist.
Mm-hmm.

Francis (19:56):
Yeah.
Mixologist I can get, but whensomebody calls themselves a bar
chef, unless it's Albert, I'mlike, come on, you're a bar
chef.
Show me

Mark (20:02):
your ingredients.
Exactly.
You gotta show me youringredients.
That's what it's all about.

Francis (20:06):
No, I don't know.
And the bar I have, I have aproblem with the term of art Bar
Chef.
Oh, see, I don't, Albert can useit.
Nobody else does.
You

Mark (20:10):
know why I, I don't have a problem with it because a, a
bartender.
It's a totally different thing.
And I, I'll never forget my veryfirst bartending job, a guy was
training me how to bartend.
And I said, and he said, uh,okay, here's what you gotta
know.
Okay.
Uh, doers and water doers andtonic.
Here's how you make your drinks.
Uh, and, uh, if somebody ordersa drink called an old fashioned,
you just tell'em you don't haveany bitters and you can't make

(20:31):
it.
And are you serious?
I swear.
I swear.
That's how I was trained.
You know, it was, it was themiddle eighties and people just
didn't care that much.
Yeah.
And I remember it was a sad, sadtime for cocktails

Francis (20:43):
and they, and they especially didn't care that much
in the dump you were working inback then.
I remember the place.
I think, um, I have

Kate (20:48):
say though, I think, I think it's true, Bar Chef
definitely has like apretentious ring to it and not
everybody, you know, you can bevery skeptical of people, but.
Actually, I think that somebodylike, like Stefan Remer can say
it and his brother or AlbertTraer can say it.
And then his brother Stefan isalso right, an excellent bar
chef as well.
He's at a place called 2 0 2 inkind of the meat packing
district.

(21:08):
Mm-hmm.
And he does this great thing,like he challenges people.
They can bring in an ingredientand he'll make a drink for it.
Like you could bring in yourcandy canes at Christmas.
Wow.
And he might think about it fora day or two and then he'll
construct.
A drink, a really tasty drink ora very thoughtful drink to go
with it.
And I think that's wonderful.
Like I think that is kind of aBar Chef.

Francis (21:26):
I'm going down there with Cod Love Royal and we'll
see what he has.
We'll see.
We'll see what he's made of.
He'll test his stuff now.
Now let's turn the conversation.
'cause I think this book isreally relevant to now the I I,
I think that the, it's wonderfulthat the art of the bartender is
returning.
Um.
But what this book speaks to ispeople are making cocktails more
at home.
Mm-hmm.
What do you see the state of thecocktail party and the cocktail

(21:47):
at home?

Kate (21:48):
We've seen, well, you know what?
In the past year or two, I wouldsay, like even though we think
2006 is the year of thecocktail, having like cocktail
parties at home really got big.
Even like a year ago, I think.
And it's got to do, I think withthe way people eat at home a lot
now, they have like these kindof small plates parties.
They don't necessarily have fullon sit down three course dinner
parties.
Mm-hmm.
They have a lot of fun whenpeople don't necessarily sit

(22:09):
down when they can like mingleand cocktails go so well with
that.
Plus, you know, in the way thateverybody, especially guys love
grills and they love to get allthe, you know, every single
grill, the space, art, grill,and accessories.
I think there's a lot of funthat you can have with cocktails
in their accessories.
So I think people like outfittheir like cool bar areas with
everything and then you have tohave a cocktail party to

(22:30):
celebrate

Mark (22:31):
and to show off.
You know that exactly thatmingling is a key ingredient to
every great cocktail.
Mm-hmm.
So,

Francis (22:36):
yeah, exactly.
You know, it's funny because,and I think cocktail parties are
a great idea to have at home orto have in a restaurant because,
you know, even at politicalfundraisers, what tends to
happen, I mean, sometimes we goto, to, you know, some sort of
fundraiser where, you know, it's$500 a plate.
Wow.
Very often Mark and I will goand you go for the cocktail
hour.
And a lot of people do this'cause we, a lot of these happen

(22:58):
in hotels around New Brunswick.
We'll do a lot of dinners afterdinners.
Mm-hmm.
Like there's a, there's a 500plate rubber chicken dinner at
the something hotel or you know,a quarter mile away.
And people will go for thecocktail hour.
'cause during the cocktail houryou can see 50 people, 60
people.
Once you're seated at that tableof 10 that your company bought.
Why do you need to be there andsit at that table at 10?

(23:19):
So we have a, we do a lot ofbusiness in, in the restaurant
and people coming after thecocktail hour somewhere, they
bag out before they sit down,skip the dinner, uhhuh, and sit
down.
And I think that really speaksto the utility of a cocktail.
A cocktail party, or a cocktailhour.

Kate (23:31):
That's an excellent, excellent point.

Francis (23:32):
Well now, um, I think that.
One of the things that I'veseen, one of the disturbing
trends that I've seen that Idon't support mm-hmm.
Is the growth of the size of themartini glass.
Mm-hmm.
And you have some beautifulillustrations here in your book
of different sizes of glassesthat all look sort of
appropriate.
Mm-hmm.
Um, there is sort of a big, ismore aesthetic that's been going
on with our, and I see.

(23:53):
You know, the, the martini when,you know Dale Degra would make
them at the Rainbow Room in theeighties, and they were very
true to the history of them.
It'd be a three, it'd be threeounces of liquor.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Whereas now you go in someplaceand have these nine ounce
martini glasses and I think, ohmy God, who's gonna drink seven
ounces?
I mean, if you have two of them,that's a half a bottle of gin.
Right.
Are

Kate (24:10):
people you're staying away from,

Francis (24:13):
I mean, so what about glassware in bars and
restaurants and at home?
You guys actually address thisin the book as well.

Kate (24:18):
We have an in an out list and we think that those big
unwieldy, um.
Martini glasses as well as, um,some of the margarita glasses
are out.
Like we, we think some thingsare in, and we think, um, those
super big ones.
And anyway, like everything slotis all over the place in them.
Mm-hmm.
You know, it's ridiculous.
So I, I completely a hundredpercent agree with you.
Not everywhere.

(24:38):
I mean, I think somewhere inthe, some places in the country
they're still going strong.
Mm-hmm.
You know, but Jersey.

Speaker 7 (24:42):
Yeah.
Sorry.
Like throwing in Jersey we're alittle bit behind

Kate (24:47):
Brunswick.
Right.
You guys have made it safer for,there you go.
We, we, we are making

Mark (24:50):
the streets safe for, for cocktails everywhere as quickly
as we can.
We use, we use smaller glasses,but I mean,

Francis (24:55):
you know, why do you want seven ounces of bourbon in
your

Mark (24:58):
Well, because it's gonna be warm and, yeah.
It

Francis (25:00):
doesn't stay cold.

Mark (25:01):
That's the one thing that, that I love that you said as far
as a what's out thing?
Mm-hmm.
Are those little individual.
Uh, shakers.
Yeah.
Where, where your drink getsget, just gets watered down and
watered down and watered downand watered down.
And you get a, a, you know, halfwater cocktail by the end.
Exactly.
Okay.
Everybody listen up.

Francis (25:18):
You make a cocktail, you put the right amount of ice
in it, you shake it until it'sdone.
And then it's done.
Pour the drink out and throw theshaker.
So this is having the shakeraway.
Well, I think that, that, that'sinteresting.
Well, the, those big glassesthough, I still have them at
home and I like them at home.
Mm-hmm.
But the idea, it's sort of likewhen you go to a restaurant in
the, the chef has a big plate towork on.
Mm-hmm.
And I like martinis orManhattan's at home.

(25:40):
Manhattan's in the winter,martinis in the summer, but.
I have those huge glasses, but Iput three and a half ounces of
liquor and then that's the wholeidea.
Uhhuh, is it supposed to be, youknow, but yeah, so you're, as
you're against big glasses aswell.

Kate (25:52):
Way against them.
Yeah, I think, I think becauseunfortunately, like you're smart
and you can exercise restraint,but definitely, I think if you
go to a bar and you get a bigmartini glass, it's only half
fill.
People are gonna be like, what'sup?
You know?
They mm-hmm.
So when it, it, you're exactlyright.
The drink gets warm, it getswatered down.
If there's any little bit of icein it, it's um, it's silly.

Mark (26:11):
And I'm against the guy who drinks the nine ounce
martini because I've had to callhim a cab.
I'm against it too.

Francis (26:17):
Oh, well now.
It.
It do.
Is there a favorite cocktailthat you have or school of
cocktails that you have that youthink really works at a home
cocktail party?

Kate (26:25):
That is an excellent question.
Um, I think, I think, I alwayswanna think punches are making a
comeback.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm not sure if they reallyhave, I think I'm in a minority,
but I think it's wishful

Mark (26:34):
thinking on your part, what a parties are.
Great.
Because.
Because a punch is made.
Mm-hmm.
And then everybody just keepsgoing back to it.

Kate (26:40):
Yeah.
I think, I think they're justfun.
But, um, I'm personally a bigsidecar girl.
I love, I love brandy sidecars.
I'm not sure if they lendthemselves so well.
The parties, I think peoplestill have a lot of fun, um,
with mojito like drinks.
Mm-hmm.
Because it's really easy to findlike mint, you know, and squeeze
some lemon juice.
And then you can have like areally refreshing.
Cocktail that's kind oftransportive, you know, that
makes you feel like you'resomewhere else or might remind

(27:02):
you of a great vacation.

Francis (27:03):
So we're gonna, we're gonna transport to the other
side of this commercial break injust a moment where we're gonna
talk more with Kate Crater,senior editor at Food and Wine,
about their new, uh, guideCocktails 2006 by food and wine,
which you can learn more aboutat our website.
We'll be talking with her injust a moment.
Our guest is Kate Crater.
She's a senior editor of Foodand Wine Magazine and largely
responsible for the beautifulguy.
They have out Cocktails 2006,which you can learn more about

(27:25):
at our website and pick it up.
It's really a great cocktailbook to have hanging out at home
right next to Anthony Julio'sedited Mr.
Boston guy.
Those are the.
Those are, those are our firstpicks for, uh, cocktail
reference works.
Do you like, uh, the Mr.
Boston guide?
Have you heard about that?
Yeah, he, yeah.
Yeah.
That was such job.
Such a terrible Mr.
Boston was so irrelevant for solong.
Uhhuh.
And, and Anthony Gilio, our, ourevidently mutual friend, uh,

(27:46):
edited it Uhhuh.
Mm-hmm.
And now it's a, it's an, thecurrent, it's, it's a book
again.
It's a real bartender's guideagain.
Mm-hmm.
But don't if there's a2-year-old copy out on the
shelves, you don't want thatone.
'cause that's a bad one.
Make sure that we got the oneedited by Anthony Gilio.
The nice thing about thesecocktail books is they're not
necessarily designed forbartenders.
The bartenders are a goodbartender, always reading.
They're designed for people tohave at home, and we were

(28:06):
talking about cocktail partiesat home.

Kate (28:08):
Mm-hmm.
What

Francis (28:10):
do you think makes, what are the elements of a good
cocktail party at home?

Kate (28:14):
That is another excellent question.
We're full of them.
We're, I'm sorry, we're full ofsomething.
I'm not sure we're, you guys areon.
Um, I think, I think to have agood cocktail party, it helps to
have like a theme drink, youknow, just to pick a drink and
have it be your specialty.
Mm-hmm.
And then you can have, I wouldsay you shouldn't go crazy and
have like five different kindsof spirits or boozes, but I

(28:35):
think if you have.
Two or three.
So if someone really doesn'tdrink gin, like even if your, if
your specialty is gonna be somekind of fantastic, gimlet or
whatever, you can have optionsfor people.
Mm-hmm.
But I would not offer more thanthree drinks.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, I think it's good tohave a.
A little series of mixers.
Um, so, but not, you know, thenit gets really boring too.
On the other hand, you know, howmany, um, bad parties have you

(28:58):
been to where there's just alineup of tonic and orange juice
and cranberry juice?
So I think it's really fun tohave one.
I'm gonna say all of them.
All of them.
I,

Francis (29:07):
you know what I'm remembering, I'm remembering my
parents' cocktail parties, andthey would be all, all that
stuff would be on the dryer, inthe utility group.
I think I went to that party.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I'd serve my aunt'shighballs.
You know, got Aunt Lilahighball.
Okay.

Mark (29:21):
You really have an Aunt Lila?
I do, I do.
She's great, by the way.

Francis (29:25):
Um, well, the, the other thing, when you talk about
parties at home, we, you'dalluded to earlier, making a
punch.
Mm-hmm.
Now what makes a great punch?
I mean, seal test sherbert whenin my family's punches, right
there with the, the Canada driedginger rail uhhuh.
But what, and I, but I, I dolove punches.
What makes a great punch?
Work.

Kate (29:42):
Um, it doesn't, you don't want it to be too fruity.
I don't wanna say anything aboutthe Sherbert your family
Sherbert punch, but um, but thatmight not necessarily be the
best one to have, especially nowlike you can do What if

Speaker 7 (29:53):
you used a better sherbert?
I'm just kidding.
You

Kate (29:54):
use a better sherbert.
Yeah, exactly.
Ho Andaz for Bay really helps.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Upgrade.
You get better in the sealsystem.
Upgrade.
Um, I think actually you can dofun things with that.
We did have a really fun drink.
Um, we did have a very fun drinkthat, um, that had sher birded
in it either this year or lastyear.
But you can do, you can do likelittle things like you can make
ice cubes.
We have a really cool cucumbercooler.

(30:14):
that's not a punch, but you caneasily use like cucumber, like
ice cubes that you make eitherwith fruit juice or something in
them.
Um, so when they melt the drink,the punch doesn't just matter
out.
The drinks all get diluted.
Sure.
So, um, so you can do fun thingslike that, but I think, I think
a keto a good punch is to kindof keep it simple and not put in
like 10 different kinds ofjuices.

(30:35):
So it ends up tasting likeHawaiian Punch or like some
weird.
Fruit nectar that you hadsomewhere, you know, and

Francis (30:41):
there's, there, there are some old classic punches
that you can pick up.
Actually, there's, I mean,cocktails 2006 is a great book
to have.
Um, there are some old punchesin the Mr.
Boston guide mm-hmm.
And in Dale DE's book mm-hmm.
Um, the craft of the cocktail.
Mm-hmm.
He has a great little punchsection there, and I've made a
few of those punches.
Mm-hmm.
But as you, as you talk aboutKate, the ice is supremely
important.
Mm-hmm.

(31:01):
And when you make a punch.
You take one block of ice in thecenter of that punch, even if
you know, if even if it's awater ice.
Mm-hmm.
It's gotta be one piece of ice.
It can't be ice piece.
That's suchs an excellent pointbecause I mean, and that's the,
it's sort of festive to see thatbig

Mark (31:14):
iceberg floating around in there and also it, it'll melt
slower and keep your drink andkeep your punch cooler at the
same time.

Kate (31:20):
You guys are good.
That's exactly, that's actuallythe most important thing we've
said on this, on the whole showis, is really like ice.
Ice is, is one of the mostimportant things in the cocktail
besides like the quality ofspirits that you use.
And if you have a big block ofice sitting in the middle of
your punch bowl, it's gonna keepit cool.
It's not gonna melt out soquickly.

Mark (31:39):
brilliant suggestion.
One of the things we talk abouton this show a lot is ice and
is, is just that if you wannamake a great cocktail mm-hmm.
You have to have great icecubes.
I mean we bought a special icemachine just to make cocktails
with really, uh, you know, thatmakes the one inch by one inch
cubes, but.
But in the home is one of thefew places you have an advantage
over a lot of restaurantsmm-hmm.

(31:59):
Is because you have the, the icecube trays.
You use those one inch by oneinch cubes mm-hmm.
Which actually make much bettercocktails than your typical half
moon restaurant.
Yeah.
Uh, ice machine, ice that.
That you get in, you know, a, ahotel or or a restaurant, get
using those one inch by one inchcubes to make cocktails can make
all the difference in the world.

Francis (32:18):
Exactly.
And you need to be careful ifyou go out and buy ice, if
you're buying hollow ice cubesas, as, sometimes you can buy
now, sometimes you can buy thosecubes, but if you out and you
buy hollow ice cubes, they'regonna dilute your drinks.
They're gonna change the flavorfor a five of your drinks if you
shake the drinks at all enoughto mix them.
They're gonna dilute out andyou're better off if the only
ice cubes you can find to buyare the hollow ones mm-hmm.
Is to just make ice in your ownrefrigerator.

(32:39):
Those, those

Mark (32:39):
cubes simply melt too fast and add too much water, and
that's really what the problemis.
Exactly.

Francis (32:42):
You know what the three of us are?
A bunch of dorks talking about,right?
Oh, Al, I thought we were reallysmart.
Yeah, well, but you believe me,you wanna have one of the three
of us put in your cocktail partyacademy.
We can't cross

Mark (32:53):
a dork.
We're we're talking about thethermodynamics of ice here.
You know, this is

Francis (32:56):
important stuff.
Uh, well, you know, it isimportant stuff.
It's not like somebody dies ifwe don't get the cocktail party
right.
But we really do take our jobsvery seriously.
Our guest.
Today is Kate Crater.
She is the senior editor at Foodand Wine Magazine, and we're not
talking about food or wine,we're talking about cocktails
and the great new cocktail guidethey have out, which you can
find out more about by checkingour website.
We're gonna be back in just amoment, talking with Kate some
more.

(33:52):
Kate, you're based in New York.
Right?
Exactly.
So what are your recommendationsfor the top places to go and get
cocktails in New York City?

Kate (33:59):
Oh my goodness.
Well, luckily, luckily'cause wewere just talking about it.
Um, I'm gonna tell you that, um,I really love the Flatiron.
Mm-hmm.

Francis (34:07):
Flatiron Lounge Flat Lounge,

Kate (34:08):
which is in, um, I guess Gramercy Park area.
Sure.
I think it's 19th Street in theFlatiron

Francis (34:13):
Building.
Yep.

Kate (34:13):
I love what Audrey Saunders cocktails at the Pegu
Club.
Mm-hmm.
One of our favorites.
Yay.
A place

Mark (34:18):
we talk about a lot.

Kate (34:19):
It's so, it's so good.
It's so smart.
you know, when you sit down attables, when you order a drink,
they bring you these littledroppers of, um, of different
flavoring so you can adjust yourdrinks slightly if you wanted a
little taner, they have freshlemon juice if you want.
A little sweeter, they have somesyrup.
Um, I love that.
I think employees, it's likethe,

Francis (34:34):
it's like the salt and pepper of uh, exactly.
Of uh, and the place

Mark (34:37):
we talked about bar chefs earlier, the places that we're
talking about right now.
That's what these guys are.
Total bar chef.
These guys are bar chefs.
Exactly.
And you were gonna say,

Kate (34:44):
I like employees only too, although it gets a little crazy.
Um, I think, I think that theyhave some really fun inspired
drinks.

Mark (34:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and nice little, littlemenu too that I enjoy.
The employees only menu.
I'll tell you know.
All

Kate (34:55):
that's, you guys are experts.
You

Francis (34:56):
know why I really like employees only.
Huh?
We have, in our restaurant, wehave commission.
You like to.
Drink cocktail.
Yes.
We, we have that end.
We have commissioned, uh, somereproductions of Tamara Loka,
who was a painter who painted inthe twenties, Uhhuh, and she did
a lot of great work.
And, and Tamara Loka is featuredthroughout the restaurant.
The Oh, really?
Prince from, yeah.
They're, they're, they'relovely.

(35:17):
But Tamara Loka painted a lot oflike one breast Baird portraits
and a lot of nudes that areawesome, but I just have too
much corporate business.
I can't risk it.
Uhhuh and an employee's only.
You can.
You can see the hair for you.
Yeah.
You can see the other ones thatwe can show.
So very nice.
So that there's one more drawfor employees.
If I put those up,

Mark (35:35):
my employees would probably sue me for Yeah,
exactly.
And the big

Francis (35:38):
corporations will stop coming to dinner.
Hey Kate, it's been a lot of funhaving you.
So great to talk to you guys.
Always great to you.
Come back again and speak to usagain.
I would love that.
That's great.
Kate Crater.
The magazine is Food and Wine.
You should pick it up.
And the book they've just putout is cocktails 2006, over 150
of the best drinks and snacksfrom the hottest bars.
We didn't even talk about thesnacks, which they have recipes
for in here.
Um, and it's an essential guideto American nightlife and, uh,

(36:00):
and next year we better be init.
She's the hot trouble.
That's all I have to say.
Hope you've enjoyed the hourlistening to the restaurant.
Guys.
I'm Francis Sean.
And I'm Mark Pesco.
We are the restaurant guys.
Central Jersey 1450.
Time is 12 noon.

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