September 11, 2025 • 38 mins
This is a Vintage Selection from 2008
The Banter
The Guys talk about a civilized way to get groomsmen looking good for the wedding that doesn’t involve a trip to the spa.
The First Conversation
The Restaurant Guys hear from Kim Haasarud, author and mixologist, who gives advice on sangria. They talk about which wines work best, how to get the most out of the fruit and the best ways to implement it at a party.
The Second Conversation
The Restaurant Guys talk with Jeanne Kelley about her experiences with urban gardening –complete with chickens and a goat! She shares her joy of composting, the best kitchen tool she’s ever used and a secret ingredient that’s one of The Guys’ favorites.
Bios
Kim Haasarud is an award-winning mixologist, author, and founder of Liquid Architecture, a consulting firm known for crafting innovative cocktail programs. She is the author of the best-selling 101 Cocktails series and has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Wine Enthusiast, and Cosmopolitan.
Jeanne Kelley is a Los Angeles–based cookbook author, food writer specializing in seasonal, sustainable cooking. She trained at the esteemed École de Cuisine La Varenne in Paris.
Jeanne is the author of several cookbooks, including Salad for Dinner, The Portable Feast, and Blue Eggs and Yellow Tomatoes: A Backyard Garden-to-Table Cookbook. Her work has been featured in publications such as Bon Appétit, Cooking Light, Fine Cooking, and Everyday with Rachael Ray. She also contributed to Williams Sonoma’s Holiday Baking collection.
Info
Kim Hassarud
https://www.liquid-architecture.com/
Jeanne Kelley
https://www.jeannekelleykitchen.com/
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mark (00:42):
Good morning, mark.
Hey Francis, how are you?
I'm well.
How are you this morning?
I'm doing great.
I got to have a lovely dinnerwith a bunch of very close
friends last night.
Some really good food, somereally exceptional wine.
Francis (00:54):
We had a little dinner at the restaurant.
I had the gentleman who were inmy, uh, my groomsmen.
And our partner Lou, come joinus for dinner at our own
restaurant last night.
Fun Busman's holiday.
Mark (01:03):
It was big fun.
It was big fun.
Although, I have to say we werea little raucous.
I think we might have offendedsome of the other tables that
were close by.
We were, oh, maybe they'll writea letter.
Kinda allowed.
Maybe they'll write a letter tothe owner.
Francis (01:13):
Well, we, it was in, the reason we got together last
night that I, I think isinteresting is I, we got
together with Mon Taylor.
Mm-hmm.
A guy named Michael Deru ofMichael Derulo years.
Um, we should have him on theshow.
Sure.
Um, and what we've decided to dois not.
In my, in our wedding.
I'm not asking the bridal partyto wear formal attire, no
tuxedos.
Um, we're just gonna go a littlemore casual.
(01:36):
We're gonna go with a jacket andpants, but I, I want,
Mark (01:38):
well, you know, I think that there, the reason for that
might be what?
That.
You sometimes have to wear atuxedo for work.
So if you have to also wear onefor your wedding, then it seems
you're mixing work and weddingtoo much.
Francis (01:50):
You know, it all.
It also comes down to, I knowit's become the modern
convention for the bridal partyto be in formal attire.
Mm-hmm.
While everybody else at thewedding is, is in semi-formal
atti.
I've always found that to bestrange and I, and I, I
aesthetically, I I don't dig it.
Mark (02:04):
Did you find it strange when you were in my wedding
party and you did it?
Yeah, I did, but I was, but Iwas good.
Thanks for that.
And I kept, and I kept it quietuntil now, now 15 years later.
Sorry.
Sorry.
I thought this is dumb.
Sorry.
Thanks very much for that.
So you mean the fact that intuxedos basically were us, uh,
the, the bridal and, andgroomsmen parties and the.
(02:26):
String quartet.
Yeah, that's it.
That's, those are the people,people in tuxedo.
Francis (02:29):
Well, you know, I just, I, I, I've been to a couple of
black tie weddings, uh, inbeautiful places in the city.
Very elegant.
But, you know, not everybodyowns a tuxedo, so you're asking
all of your guests who don't owna tuxedo to go rent a tuxedo and
all the women to go buy a dress.
That's, that's, you know, unlessyou're, you're dealing with a
set of people that, you know,wears a tuxedo every once a
month, several times a year.
(02:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, we do for work andevents that we attend, but most
people don't.
So.
I, I didn't want to do that.
The black tie thing.
Mm-hmm.
And I think it's fine to do,especially since we're gonna get
married outside, uh, to do this,the semi-formal thing, but we
wanted the groomsmen tocoordinate.
And I'm having a suit that'sdifferent from the groomsmen and
the, the groomsmen all havejackets and pants that sort of
make sense together.
(03:10):
It'll look nice in a weddingphoto.
Um, but.
What we're having done is Ijust, I got everyone to come
together.
You know, you can always bribepeople with food and wine.
It works out great.
It does work every time.
Um, every time.
And, and Michael, the Taylorcame, it seems like a very old
world thing, Mike, the, theTaylor came and just measured
everybody that when they werethere, so people didn't have to
go piecemeal down to Michael's.
(03:30):
Shop
Mark (03:31):
right.
One at a time.
Each person went down to, to theroom and got measured by
Michael, while the rest of uskind of enjoyed hor d'oeuvres
and cocktails.
Francis (03:38):
Well, and they either making clothes for mm-hmm.
For, for you guys.
And one of the things I thoughtabout in making this choice was.
You know, the jacket, shirt andpants that all you guys are
gonna buy is more expensive thanrenting a tuxedo would be
Mark (03:52):
significantly.
Francis (03:53):
However, at the end of renting a tuxedo, you give the
tuxedo back.
Mark (03:57):
Yes, except I own a tuxedo.
Well, but yeah.
Francis (03:59):
But in my way, if I did the normal thing, you wouldn't
be allowed to wear.
Right.
I'd have a different, I, I wouldtux.
My tuxedo would, my tuxedo wouldbe else.
I could wear a sky blue PeterBrady tuxedo with a, with a
ruffled shirt if I wanted, andyou have to wear it.
Mark (04:10):
Big fan of the sky blue ruffled shirt.
I, I'm so sorry to be missingout on that.
Um.
Francis (04:14):
But at the end of, at the end of this, there is an
expense, but basically I, I'veasked you to buy a jacket, pants
and a shirt.
Presumably at some point youwere going to buy a jacket,
pants and a shirt.
Mark (04:23):
Yes.
But I can no longer wear thisjacket tie in shirt anywhere
that any of the other groomsmenmight be.
Francis (04:30):
You could accidentally want looking like a, like a
barbershop quartet somewhere.
If you're
Mark (04:34):
not for fear, for fear of, uh, the, the.
The possibility that one of ourfriends will also be say, oh, I
can wear that.
That looks so good on me.
You
Francis (04:42):
have other friends that you can wear it with?
I guess I do, but one of thethings that struck me that I
really like is I.
I go to a tailor now.
Mm-hmm.
And I, I have kind of a largeneck, so off the rack's clothes
don't fit me very well.
Mark (04:54):
I have a large neck, but a large everything else.
So it, so off the rack clothesfit me a little bit?
No,
Francis (04:57):
it's, it's, it's sort of if my, if, if the shirt fits
me in the neck, I'm, uh, I'mwearing a parachute.
Mm-hmm.
And if the shirt fits my body, Ican't button it.
So I,
Mark (05:05):
I'm wearing a parachute as well.
Unfortunately, the parachuteactually hits so sorry about
that.
Francis (05:10):
Nothing.
I, not my fault.
So, but we're partially yourfault.
You're wrong, but you're right.
What I've done though is.
I started getting shirts custommade by Michael.
Mm-hmm.
And they're great and they'rereally reasonable.
They get you, if I get 10 doneat a time, they're, they're
pretty, they're prettyreasonable and they're lovely
shirts and they fit.
Mm-hmm.
Because for years, I, I hadshirts fit right.
And now I'm buying more and moreof my clothes from this one guy,
(05:30):
and it's a very old fashioned,old world way to do things
because now he knows what Iwant.
Mm-hmm.
And, and he'll do anything from,you know, from, for my wedding.
He's making me a custom madesuit but I've bought suits from
him off the well.
He has the rack suits off.
The rack suits, and pretty muchhe has my measurements.
And I call him up and I say,Hey, listen, I need five shirts,
three pairs of pants, twosweaters, and they come in the
(05:51):
mail.
Mark (05:51):
Actually, you know what I like?
That is really what he does ishe is, he matches your suit and
your tie and your shirt.
Like the gar animals.
Yeah.
And so you come to work like,Hey, that all really goes
together.
Well, great job.
Francis (06:02):
And the other thing he does that, that I find is really
interesting, I, I, I, it's notreally about food, but it is the
finer things in life.
It is indeed the finer things inlife.
I, and I'm new to this world.
I've been buying from him for acouple of years now.
And, um, he keeps a record ofeverything that I've bought so
he knows what's in my closet.
And he actually came over andlooked in my closet and sort of
did a survey of what I have.
Mm-hmm.
(06:22):
So he know and he is got a greatmemory for all this stuff.
And so I email him sort of whatI want and.
if he needs anything from me, heactually comes to my work and
it, or, or he'll meet mewherever.
And I find this very oldfashioned.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and very pleasant.
A very, very pleasant way to dobusiness.
What
Mark (06:39):
I liked about last night, and that was great that we got
together and you, you got to.
Um, basically get, get, takecare of the business of the, of
the evening, which was, whichwas getting fitted for, for our
clothes, for the, for thewedding.
Uh, what I liked about it morewas, uh, and you talk about, or
old world, was you got all yourclosest friends together and we
(07:01):
sat around and what could havebeen kind of a, a perfunctory.
45 minutes, let's get this thingdone and then go back to the
rest of our lives, became a fourand a half hour meal and
discussion about politics andfood and wine and, and
everything else you couldpossibly think of, but it, but
you, you took the opportunity ofwe need to do this thing
(07:24):
together to get your friendstogether and to share a meal and
to share some wine.
And to talk about something'simportant and something's not
important.
And I, and I just in the worldtoday, I don't see enough of
that.
There isn't enough of thathappening, of taking those
opportunities to say, you knowwhat?
We have to accomplish thisthing.
Let's accomplish it.
(07:45):
And at the same time, let's,let's get together.
Francis (07:48):
You know, I found this whole wedding planning thing
and, um, the, the guest we hadon the show wrote a book about
the wedding industry.
Mm-hmm.
A one perfect day.
Mm-hmm.
You should go look at that.
Up in the restaurant guys, radioarchives.
It's a great show to listen to.
And, and I'm, you know, I'vesort of known all that stuff all
along.
We're being in the business.
Yeah, I have some connectionsthat make things easier.
I have a staff of people whowork in restaurants mm-hmm.
(08:10):
Who make things easier for me inthis wedding planning thing.
But besides that, we, Jenniferand I, are just not engaging in
a lot of the stuff that peoplefeel they have to engage in.
Mm-hmm.
And the wedding planning hasreally not been very much of a
headache.
You know.
Well, you're
Mark (08:25):
also not quite to the end yet, those last couple weeks,
and you're all Yeah.
But I know people trying to makeit stress
Francis (08:29):
about it and fight about it for a year.
You're right.
And there's no reason for that.
And we're just making, let yourwife have whatever she wants.
Yes.
Number one.
And number two, we just want tohave a venue where people can
come together, enjoy the day,have good music and good food,
and I want the groomsmen and thebridesmaids to look good.
And that's it.
And, and those are the thingsthat are really, you might wanna
Mark (08:48):
choose some different, uh, groomsmen.
Francis (08:49):
Yeah, exactly.
Well, we look as good as theycan.
We'll be back in just a moment.
You're listening to theRestaurant guys.
Hey everybody, welcome back.
You're listening to theRestaurant guys, mark and
Francis of Stage left, andCatherine Lombardi.
Our guest today is Kim HasserRoad.
She's written several books, 101Margaritas, 101 Martinis, and
101 Sangrias.
And picture drinks.
Mark (09:10):
Hi Kim.
How are you?
That's like 303 drinks.
Speaker 10 (09:12):
Yeah.
Three.
Three.
Yeah.
Yeah.
My husband's a lucky guy.
The, uh, the taste tester.
Francis (09:17):
So now you have your own firm, liquid architecture,
you're sort of an architect ofdrinks.
How does that work?
Speaker 10 (09:24):
Right.
You know, I do a lot of, um, alot of drink development for
various, you know, liquor brandsas well as restaurant groups,
hotel chains, and kind ofintroducing mixology.
And, you know, reallyincorporating fresh ingredients
into the beverage program.
Francis (09:38):
So, I mean, sangria would be like the fresh
ingredients, incorporatedposter, child of drinks.
So talk, talk to us aboutsangrias.
Speaker 10 (09:45):
Yeah, I love sangrias.
I mean, you know, a, atraditional sangria is, you
know, it's basically a winepunch.
It's red wine with, uh, freshfruit, some kind of modifier,
like a brandy and some kind ofbleeding agent, like sugar.
And you know, there really isno.
Perfect sangria recipe.
And what I like to do is reallyuse kind of the fruit as the
(10:05):
driving force.
Um, so for example, you know,taking a trip to your local
farmer's market or grocery storeand kind of seeing, you know,
what fruits and ingredients lookfresh and, you know, build a
sangria around that and kind ofuse that as your.
As you're driving force andfoundation,
Mark (10:20):
you know, Kim, as a kid, I remember going to my
grandfather's house and he, itwasn't a, a true sangria, but
when peaches, when he hadpeaches that weren't ripe enough
or he didn't suspect they weregonna get rip enough, he would
drop them into kind of a simplered wine and just let the, the
peaches soak in that red wine.
And you know, as a kid, I.
I generally got more peachesthan I did of the red wine, but
(10:43):
still there was, there was someserious red wine in there and
you know, using fruits in wine.
We've been doing this for a longtime.
Speaker 10 (10:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, even though RIAskind of have roots in Spain, you
know, it'd be hard to imaginethe sangrias really not, you
know, being, it's hard toimagine RIAs not being around,
you know, the wines were, youknow.
First discovered, you know, thatsomeone actually dropped some
fruit and some wine.
You know, I don't think that'sthe too, too much of a, a novel
(11:12):
idea.
Um, but, you know, being able,you know, to your point of being
able to put, you know, any kindsof fruit in there and, you know,
I think the wines and the sugarelement will actually kind of
make.
The, um, the fruit's a littlebit sweeter and kind of seep
into the wine, you know, um, alittle easier making for kind of
a fruit forward.
Francis (11:31):
You know, I have, I have to say, I'm a, I'm a, a
pretty big fan of, of Sangriaand our, our business partner,
uh, his, his, uh.
Uh, parents are originally from,he's, he's born in Cuba and his,
his parents were born in, inSpain, in Gia.
And, uh, he makes a pretty meansangria.
Um, so I've been kind ofspoiled, but I've been to bars
(11:52):
and restaurants where they'lljust take some fruit and throw
it in red wine.
That, that doesn't quite assangria make, does it?
You need the brandy and thesoaking, don't you?
Speaker 10 (11:59):
Yeah.
You know, I think ideally, youknow, you wanna make a sangria
ahead of time, you know, Iideally the, a night before in
advance and, you know, just.
Regarding the wines, you know,I, I.
Don't think that you should usean expensive wine, but I think
that you should use a decentwine, you know, I mean, off the
rack, reds kind of in the, youknow, in the$10 range, um, maybe
even a little bit less expensivethan that are perfect.
Mark (12:22):
Um, well, we, we say, we say all the time, don't, don't
cook with a wine you wouldn'tdrink.
Certainly don't make sangriawith a wine you wouldn't drink.
Speaker 10 (12:30):
Uh, absolutely.
No, no, no.
You definitely wanna have, youknow, a great wine is really
gonna be, you know, hold up to alot of those fruits, but at the
same time, you don't reallywanna go.
Too expensive because, you know,some of those wines that are,
you know, these, these greatBordeauxs, these great wines,
you know, like in the, the$40range and up, you know, what
makes those wines so great aresome of its natural, you know,
subtleties, right?
(12:51):
The nuance, you know, littleflavors that you pick up on the
mouth feel and the texture.
And when you mix it with fruitand, and you know, spirits and,
you know juices, you kind oflose some of those subtleties.
So, um, you know, what makes agreat wine really good is, you
know.
It is not, doesn't reallytranslate that well into a
sangria.
Not
Mark (13:09):
necessarily what makes a great sangria.
Great.
Speaker 10 (13:12):
Right, right, right, right.
Francis (13:14):
Well now, so what are your, what are your big tips for
making Sangria in addition tomaking it the night before, if
you can, what are your tips onmaking Sangria.
Speaker 10 (13:22):
Um, it's actually a couple things.
You know, as far as the, thetypes of wines to use when
you're making a red sangria, youknow, it, it's great, great to
use a really hearty wine like aRioja or a rah or a sangiovese,
something that's really gonnahold up to the fruit.
When I made this book, Iactually experimented with a lot
of different wines and, um, youknow.
(13:42):
Wines like Pinot, no.
Noir seem to be a little, alittle too delicate for sangria.
Didn't really hold up as well,but, um, you know, to kind of
use a hardy wine is, um.
A strong point also todefinitely use fresh
ingredients, um, and some kindof sweetening agent, like a, a
simple syrup or even a flavoredsyrup.
Um, and if you're going to makeit the night before where it has
(14:03):
hours to kind of infuse into thewine, you don't need to add as
much sugar.
It will actually get sweeter thelonger you let it sit there.
Um, if you're gonna make it justa few hours in advance, you will
need a little more sugar to kindof help that.
Um.
Uh, help the fruits actuallyinfuse into the wine a little
bit more.
Um,
Mark (14:19):
one of the, one of the tricks, my, my partner, in the
restaurant, mine and Francis'third partner that we were just
talking about, uh, does, is hesoaks the fruit in the brandy
before he puts all of thosethings into the wine.
just to kind of turn the octaneof the, of the cocktail up a
little bit.
Uh, have, have you, have youever had any experience doing
that?
Speaker 10 (14:39):
Yeah.
In fact, I think one of therecipes, I actually may, I think
I soak some of the berries in,in Graham Manet, if you wanna
make it, um, a little bitstronger, you know, one kind of
trick that I do if I don'treally have a lot of time to
make a sangria to kind of startwhat I call the fruit bleed into
the drink, is they may sure.
Sort of slightly macerate thefruit.
I don't wanna, you know, muddleit or, or, you know, make it
(14:59):
really mushy, but just kind ofslightly macerate it to, to just
start the bleed, uh, faster intothe drink.
another good tip is when you'recutting the fruit, um,
especially citrus fruit, is toscore the skin.
And to cut them into some, youknow, unique shapes like, you
know, wheels or half wheels, or,you know, even using cookie
cutters, you know, like in theshape of the star circles, if
(15:19):
you wanna kinda have some funideas with apples or pineapples,
you know, to make it a littlemore, uh, visually enhancing.
Francis (15:26):
We're talking with Kim Hasbro about her new book, a
hundred and Ones GR and PictureDrinks.
Now with 101 Kim, there have tobe some that are kinda, I don't
know, maybe a little lessexpected Sangrias.
What was your, what was yourhundred and first sangria?
Speaker 10 (15:39):
Um, uh, you know, I really get, I get pretty crazy
in the book and really kind of,uh, stretch the boundaries a
bit.
And I use things like hibiscustea, um, and saki and uh, lemon
cello into the, uh, sangria andthat's kind of hits home the
fact that there really is noright or wrong way to make a
sangria.
you know, really.
(16:00):
The door is really wide open asfar as using lots of different
various fruits, you know, fromcherries to guava to papaya, to
blackberries to differentspirits, you know, ranging from
rum to saki to sweet oo andcordial.
So I think, you know, really thesky's the limit.
Mark (16:15):
Yeah.
My recommendation there isthough, try some of these things
in small quantities.
'cause how many times have Ibeen to a party and somebody's
made, you know, four gallons ofsomething and said, oh, that
didn't come out the way I wanted
Francis (16:25):
it to.
Yeah.
Now, but do you, do you findthat.
Punches and sangrias and pitcherdrinks are finding a resurgence.
Speaker 10 (16:33):
I do.
I mean, you know, it's thiswhole mixology movement and
using fresh ingredients.
Um, uh, you know, I'm definitelyseeing kind of, you know, at
least in the restaurant and, youknow, hotel chain world that,
you know, it's a, it's a veryprofitable, um, drink mechanism
at the bar.
And it's also very, you know.
Easy to execute and, um, fresh.
(16:55):
I mean, you can really kind ofuse whatever's in your walk-in
coolers and kind of incorporatethat into a fresh.
Fresh punch or sangria.
And, and
Mark (17:03):
when you're at a party and you're hosting a party and
you're, you're in your house,these, using these ingredients
this way, using freshingredients, well, it's very
time consuming.
So making a, a sangria or apunch or something like that is
a great way to kind of freeyourself up to, to do the rest
of the party and still ha beusing fresh ingredients and, and
really good ingredients and havea, a cocktail there ready for
(17:25):
everybody to drink.
Speaker 10 (17:26):
Right.
You know, and, and, you know,and.
Having a party at home.
I think a lot of people feel alot of stress like, oh my God, I
need to have every type ofspirit out there.
What if someone wants an applemartini?
What if somebody wants acosmopolitan?
Whereas if you take like asangria and use incorporate
fresh ingredients, you know youcan do one drink and do it
really well.
Francis (17:43):
Well, and it's also perfectly acceptable I think in
Francis's book of gets to say,oh, I'm sorry, that's the
neighbor's party.
Why don't you go see if theyhave an apple martini?
We have sangria.
Uh, Kim Hasbro's book is 101 101Sangrias and Pitcher drinks.
Uh, you can find out more aboutit at our website, restaurant
guys radio.com.
Thanks being the show, Kim.
Speaker 10 (18:00):
Okay, thanks.
Francis (18:02):
Uh, Jeannie Kelly is a contributing editor at Bon
Appetit Magazine for a longtime.
Uh, she, uh, has written a newbook called Blue Eggs and Yellow
Tomatoes, recipes from a ModernKitchen Garden.
Mark (18:13):
Jeannie, welcome to the show.
Francis (18:15):
Thank you.
So what's with the Blue Eggsman?
Is that a are, aren't thoserobin's eggs?
Well, why, why blue eggs?
Speaker 11 (18:22):
No, those are actual chicken eggs.
Um, I have aana chickens in mybackyard and they lay eggs that
are that beautiful pale bluecolor.
Mark (18:31):
Yeah.
We actually have a, a local farmhere in Central Jersey that's
been here for hundreds of years,actually called Sudan Farms.
And they do blue eggs and greeneggs and brown eggs and white
eggs and uh, it's allinteresting.
Speaker 11 (18:42):
Yeah, talk to, I mean, they taste the same as the
brown eggs, but you know, it'sjust kind of fun.
Francis (18:47):
It's like, it's like Easter all the time.
So well talk to us about yourbook and, and talk to us about a
kitchen garden.
Now you live in a city or in anurban environment?
Speaker 11 (18:56):
I live in the city, yes.
I mean, I, I live basicallyabout 10 minutes from downtown
Los Angeles, but Los Angelesbeing kind of an odd, sprawling
city.
There are little pockets whereyou have.
Space and I, I don't have muchspace, but I'm on a hillside and
so I do have this little tinyspot at the back of my hill
(19:17):
where I keep my chickens and mypet goat.
And then at the bottom of mystreet, which is about 50 yards
from my house, um, there's acommunity garden where I.
Keep my kitchen garden.
Mark (19:29):
That's great.
I have to say though, here incentral Jersey you are frowned
upon if you have a goat.
Francis (19:34):
Yeah.
They're not crazy about thechickens either.
Talk to us about keeping animalsin, in an urban environment.
Speaker 12 (19:40):
Um, well, it's legal, right?
But they, which is
Speaker 11 (19:48):
important.
Um, it's, there's somethingreally great about chickens.
I mean, the goat, the goat iskind of.
Fun.
It's more of a conversationalpiece, and she's great for
weeding, but the chickens aregreat because they provide me
with the most wonderful eggs.
Speaker 9 (20:02):
Mm-hmm.
The eggs
Speaker 11 (20:03):
are so fresh and so delicious, and it's really kind
of worked into this whole systemthat we have of the gardening
and the composting and all thelittle green bits of scraps from
the garden that I feed, thechicken, and then the chicken
manure that goes into thecompost, and then the compost
and then the garden.
So I feel like I've created thisgreat little.
Natural kind of farmer cycleright here in the city.
Mark (20:27):
Your own little circulatory system working
Right, right there.
My, my dad had a little farmlike that up, up in upstate New
York when I was a kid, and, andwe got to see all of that.
But the, the, the part that youjust touched on that, that is
rings so true to me besides thecomposting and, and everything
having a purpose is how greatthe eggs tasted when they were
(20:48):
fresh.
When they were really a, a freshegg.
Most people in this countrynever really eat a fresh egg.
Speaker 11 (20:55):
No.
There's really no comparisonbetween the egg that I get from
the chicken to the egg at thesupermarket.
It's just they look different.
They taste different.
They act
Mark (21:06):
different in the pan.
They, the shelves are different.
You, I mean, yeah.
Speaker 11 (21:09):
They,
Speaker 12 (21:10):
they do that funny thing, you know, with the yolk
just stands up so high and,mm-hmm.
Oh, it's just, it's so good.
Francis (21:16):
So now talk to us about this lovely book that you've
written.
It's, it's, it is a large coffeetable book with pictures, and I
think a lot of people find, um,pictures very helpful in, in a
cookbook.
Why do we need a cookbookspecifically about our kitchen
garden?
Speaker 11 (21:29):
Well, I, I try not to see the book as specifically
about the kitchen garden.
For me, those are just littleadditions to what I see.
Mostly as a collection of reallygood recipes.
Um, I've been, you know,working, writing.
Cooking articles for magazinesfor years.
I do a lot of work for cookinglight, a lot of work for Bon
Appetit.
So I, and I used to work as arecipe tester, so I, I know how
(21:52):
to make a recipe that works andI just started kind of compiling
recipes over time of things thatI just really felt were things I
wanted to make over and overagain.
Things that I felt cook shouldhave in their repertoire.
So I, I made this collection ofrecipes and then I felt like,
well, gee, part of cooking isalso, I mean, for me personally,
is also this idea of the growinggleaning process too.
(22:16):
So I just felt like if this isgonna be a, a guide for people
to cook, it should also providesomething else.
And there is this kind of funaspect of having the growing
guide.
And then the little chickenkeepers guide.
And certainly by all means, ifyou don't have any intention
Speaker 12 (22:34):
to
Speaker 11 (22:35):
start a kitchen garden or raise chickens, uh,
the, the book is still a greatcollection of recipes.
Mark (22:40):
Well, and also, I, I think that one of the things that,
that you're neglecting in, in,uh, talking about your own book
is.
Something that I love when a,when a book includes is here's
what you need to stock yourpantry in order to make the
things that, that I'm laying outfor you.
Here's what go shopping, here'sthe salts you should buy.
(23:01):
The kinds of salt, the kind offlour, all those, all the things
that you need to put in yourpantry before you can start
going because, uh, for me, themost frustrating thing is.
It's six o'clock at night.
I, I've bought the basicingredients that I need to, to
make a recipe and I startleafing through and realize, oh,
I don't have the, whateveringredient, the right kind of
salt
Francis (23:21):
can I share, can I share with you?
That happened to me last night.
I was going to make, um,cornbread.
I got this wonderful cast iron,uh, cookware that I used to make
cornbread in the oven and I hada new recipe for it.
and I didn't look at itcarefully and I started the
recipe and then it said, andthen put in the buttermilk.
And I thought, I, I don't, Idon't have buttermilk, I have
butter, I have milk.
Uh
Speaker 11 (23:42):
oh.
Well, you know, buttermilk keepsforever, so I just buy it all
the time.
When I buy milk, I buybuttermilk because it's just.
I don't know.
It just seems like it doesn't gobad.
You know,
Francis (23:52):
I, I work in the restaurant business, right?
So I'm, I'm not home Most nightseverything
Mark (23:55):
goes bad in Francis's fridge.
Look, jelly goes bad inFrancis's fridge.
Look in my
Francis (23:59):
refrigerator and there's jelly.
There's a couple of beers andsome mustard.
Oh,
Speaker 11 (24:03):
I know.
It's, that's hard when you'reworking in a restaurant kitchen
to have, find the gumption towork in your own kitchen.
But yet, no.
To get back to the idea of, of apantry guide, I do hear that
refrain from people.
They go, how do you just whipthis stuff up?
Just make this.
And I'm like, well, because I'vegot, I've got the olives and
I've got the, the, you know, mytomato paste and I have
(24:25):
pomegranate molasses.
You know, these things are thestaples.
They're just there.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, and I do feelthat, that so many young people
these days, they're not gettingany assistance in how to.
Learn how to stock a, a pantry.
It's just not common senseanymore.
And so, well, I felt like Iwanted to provide that.
Francis (24:43):
And speaking from experience, when you do wanna be
a, uh, have, be a good cook athome, one of the disadvantages
to the way that, that I, I havelived for the last many years
working in a restaurant is I geta night off and then I work five
or six nights, and then I get anight off.
When you are cooking at home acouple of nights a week, what
what should happen is you canhave that pantry, you can have
that larder stock.
(25:04):
So you pull a couple of thingsdown.
Um, and you know, you also haveleftovers from the night before
that, and
Mark (25:09):
you can do things in advance for your event two days
from now.
Francis (25:12):
Right.
So now the, your cooking bookalso, one of the things I like
about it is you talk aboutkeeping a pale in the kitchen
for, uh, and composting.
Speaker 11 (25:20):
Yes.
Francis (25:21):
Talk to us about composting.
Speaker 11 (25:22):
Composting is so easy and so important.
I just, I recently went on alittle trip.
My niece got married in Nevadaand.
I just was a, I just wasappalled, you know, at the, the
amount of waste that that wasjust happening from a family
living in a house for a few daysbecause there was no compost.
Pile, there was no recycling,there were no dogs.
Speaker 9 (25:44):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 11 (25:45):
And I mean, I just, I hate waste.
And so, you know, my dogs eatany kind of protein, meat
leftovers, and the, the chickensand the goat get all of the
little like garden scraps.
And then anything that, I don'twant the chickens and the goat
to eat onion skins, coffeegrounds eggshells.
Citrus, you know, green scrapsthat they wouldn't eat.
(26:06):
That all goes into my compostpile.
And a compost pile is just awonderful way to reduce.
The amount of waste that you putinto the landfill, and also you
get a wonderful benefit from itbecause it makes such a great
additive to your soil for yourgarden.
Mark (26:24):
You would be amazed at how many things can go in that
compost as well.
I mean, your grass clippings,your egg shells, there's coffee
grinds, all kinds of things thatjust end up in your garbage end
up in your, in your compost.
But one thing I, I wanted tosay, Jeannie is.
When I was a kid, I was about 12years old and I was very excited
'cause,'cause my dad got a dog,Uhhuh.
(26:44):
And then I realized, then Irealized exactly what you said.
The reason he got a dog isbecause he was born in, in a war
torn World War II and didn'twanna waste any food.
Yeah.
So he got that dog strictly tobe a, a consumer of, of, of the,
what would've been wasted food.
Speaker 12 (27:02):
Well, I hope the dog became your pal.
Mark (27:04):
It did indeed.
I don't know that it was hispal, but it was mine for sure.
Francis (27:07):
You know, Jeannie, this is a beautiful book.
It's a coffee table book, andthe pictures are gorgeous.
What, why, first of all, why didyou, decide to have it, the
pictures be so integral to thisbook, and, and how did you
select the, the.
What pictures to go there andhow to style of food?
Speaker 11 (27:24):
Well, I was very lucky in the fact that I had a
great art director at RunningPress books.
Her name is Francis Ing Chow,and she just was fantastic.
So a lot of the vision and, andthe design is her concept.
Um, one of the things that I hadthe benefit of doing was I was
the food stylist for the book.
(27:46):
And a lot of, uh, cookbookauthors don't style food, or
even if they do, they don't havethe opportunity to do that.
And for me, I got to fly toPhiladelphia.
And stay there for about 10days.
And we did about eight to 10shots a day and we did all of
the food photography there.
So, um, so
Mark (28:05):
you got to match your own food with your own, uh, style
Exactly.
Stylistically the way you wantedit to be.
Speaker 11 (28:11):
Exactly.
Because, you know, I had a, youknow, I have a certain aesthetic
the way I like your vision Yeah.
To, to present food.
And so that was really excitingfor me to get to, to, to make
the food and have it look, youknow.
The way I like it to look.
Now,
Francis (28:24):
let, let's talk about that because we obviously, you
know, we run a couple ofrestaurants and, and we.
Have food that's has to bephotographed at some point to,
to show to the public.
Food styling is veryinteresting.
There are a lot of rules to howto make food look good in a
picture.
It's not the
Mark (28:40):
same as how to make it look good on a plate for, for
eating necessarily.
Francis (28:44):
Why?
Why don't you talk to us abouthow things that photographers
need to do to make food look theproper, the way it should look
in the photograph?
Speaker 11 (28:51):
Well, you know, it's changing a lot.
It used to be that they would dofood styling and the food was
very fake.
They would always coat thingsand paint things and make things
very kind of plastic.
And now I think with just, uh,probably the whole techno
technology of photography beingso advanced, photographers can
be so fast now.
They don't have to spend hourson lighting and this and that.
(29:13):
They can just get it done.
And so for me, you know, all thefood was totally natural.
Um, the one trick that I didevery once in a while.
Hardly because Steve Legato, whowas the photographer for this
book, was so gra fast and sogreat, and he uses a really
beautiful lighting technique, isthat, you know, every once in a
(29:33):
while you might spray somethingwith a little Pam just to make
it shine a tiny bit.
Speaker 9 (29:37):
Mm-hmm.
But
Speaker 11 (29:38):
otherwise everything was just very natural.
You do just.
Uh, you know, you have to make apoint when you're plating things
to plate it in an attractivemanner.
You always hold back on certainingredients so that you can add
them at the last minute so thatthey, that they stand out, you
know, so that they're, thatthey're visual.
Mark (29:56):
Well, the other, the other thing is when you're.
Photographing food, especiallyhot foods, meats and things like
that.
If that, once they cool, theydon't photograph as well.
Yeah.
So the speed element that you'retalking about is really
important.
Speaker 11 (30:09):
It is really important.
And, you know, I came preparedwith my little blowtorch, which
is, um, great.
That you use, like if you havemeat.
And the meat, um, has beensitting there for a while and
then you know how the little fatpart on it starts to get white
and
Speaker 9 (30:25):
solid?
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 11 (30:26):
You can kind of hit that with a blowtorch and then
that, that.
Makes it turn into fat again.
And Steve was so fast that,well, I never even needed to use
it.
Mark (30:36):
You know, I've heard that you can save that blowtorch for
your creme bru light next time.
Francis (30:38):
Exactly.
I've, I've heard that when youphotograph meat, uh, it, it's
always done.
Very, very rare.
Is that, is that, is that true?
Speaker 11 (30:47):
Um, well, I think it looks more attractive when it's
rare, but you have to make sureit's cooked and doesn't have
that raw look.
I remember one of the firsttimes I did some, uh, a rack of
lamb, uh, the photographer was,was just very impressed that I
was able to cook it to the righttemperature, which brings me to
one of my favorite kitchentools, an instant read
(31:09):
thermometer.
Mm-hmm.
And boy, I just think that.
People are foolish to cookwithout an instant read
thermometer.
Yeah.
It's
Francis (31:17):
a valuable, valuable tool for the home cook if once
you, and you know, even if it,you're experimenting with your
own stuff, if you wanna be ableto replicate what you did the
next time.
Right.
You need to know to know wherethings are.
Speaker 11 (31:27):
Oh, exactly.
And when you think, you know, ifa rack of lamb is gonna cost you
20 bucks, you know why?
Why risk it?
Right.
Exactly.
You've got a$5 tool that youknow, it's just, I don't know.
Makes things so easy.
Mark (31:42):
Absolutely.
Well, Jeannie, I want you toknow it was only a little blurb
in your book, but it, it was my,one of my absolute favorite
things in the world to do.
And it's cooking with duck fat.
Yes.
And I, one of the mostunderappreciated, vehicles in
the world for, for making greatfood is specially potatoes, is
duck fat.
Speaker 11 (31:59):
You know, I actually ate some potatoes roasted in
duck fat last night.
Boy, they were just sodelicious.
Mark (32:06):
I, I'll never forget the first time I had'em, a, a guy by
the name of David Page who ownedhome Restaurant now owns Shin
Vineyards out on Long Island,uh, made'em for me.
We had a, a kind of an all nightbarbecue that kind of went to
morning time and in the morninghe got up and made everybody
hash browns made in duck fat.
And I've never forgotten it.
And I never will.
Francis (32:26):
Well, thanks, uh, so much for coming on our show.
The book is lovely.
Thank you, mark.
Speaker 11 (32:30):
Thank you, Francis.
Francis (32:31):
It was great to have you, and if you wanna find out
more about Blue eggs and yellowtomatoes recipes from a modern
kitchen, you can go to ourwebsite, restaurant guys
radio.com.
We'll be back in just a moment.
(32:55):
Hey everybody.
Welcome back, mark and Francis,the restaurant guys.
Uh, Jeannie Kelly, duck Fat.
You were talking about duck fat.
Oh, yeah.
Mark (33:02):
really and truly one of my favorite ingredients in the
world.
Really underappreciated.
Uh, not easy to find unless yourender your own ducks as we do.
But, uh, what a greatingredient.
What a great way to, to cookfoods.
Trust me, if you're cookingpotatoes in oil, Cook'em in duck
fat one time, you'll never goback.
Francis (33:21):
You know, we don't roast a lot of ducks in my home.
Um, and we don't roast a lot ofgeese in my home, but, but
whenever we do, I will keep theduck fat from the bottom of the
pan.
'cause whenever you roast a duckor goose, they express a lot of
fat.
So you gotta,
Mark (33:34):
especially a goose.
Oh my goodness.
Francis (33:35):
You gotta, you gotta put'em on a rack.
And actually with a goose, itrenders so much fat that you
gotta pull some of that fatoutta the pan during the cooking
process.
Mm-hmm.
Or it'll overflow.
Um, and it'll like.
It will rise up beyond the rackand your goose will be frying in
its own fat.
Mark (33:47):
And the other thing that will happen is what an ungodly
mess you will have in your oven.
It's, uh, your, your goose willbe cooked awful.
Let's shame on you for goingthere.
Francis (33:57):
But the thing is you can keep that stuff on the
counter, uh, and then use thatto make your eggs or whatever.
Mm-hmm.
We use, we do keep our baconfat.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and we use that as large.
To do a whole bunch of stuffwhen we want dry stuff.
Yeah.
You just need to be
Mark (34:08):
careful with the bacon fat that once it's burned, you
really, you really ha it reallytakes on kind of a, unpleasant
flavor.
But, uh, yeah, bacon fatdefinitely works and we just
keep it on the
Francis (34:18):
counter covered.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, room temperature.
I mean, I use it in, in lieu ofbutter in a lot of applications.
It's great to, to, if you wannacook up some vegetables, throw a
little bit of bacon fat onthere.
I know.
I'm horrifying.
Health food, you know,everywhere.
You know what, I still
Mark (34:30):
can, I tell you, Francis, you just said something.
I still put my, my, uh, duck fatand bacon fat in the fridge.
Sorry.
I, I just do.
Francis (34:37):
Well they say, you know, we, we'll have to look up
that, but they say that, um,people can get into trouble with
that because the condensationforms.
Mm-hmm.
When you take it out of the.
Fridge.
So if you, if you put it in thefridge, leave it there and never
take it out.
You gotta reach in the fridge,scoop what you need, and put it
on the, on the pan right away.
Yes.
Or, or your condensation isgonna form, which will lead to
rancidity.
Right.
So a lot of, not everything isbest kept in the refrigerator.
(34:58):
For instance, your coffee is nota good idea to keep coffee in
the refrigerator or the freezer.
'cause every time you take itout, even for just a moment, you
get condensation in there.
The condensation dilutes thecoffee and, and can lead it to,
to.
Two going bad.
So the freezer is not foreverything.
How
Mark (35:13):
about, how about at my house where we use coffee about
every six months?
Francis (35:17):
Still not in the freezer.
'cause
Mark (35:19):
we're, we're not huge coffee drinker.
So
Francis (35:20):
should go, should go in a sealed container.
And basically anything that's inoil often is better.
Not put in the refrigerator likeolive oil and the like, because.
Condensation forms inside thebottle.
Mark (35:31):
Actually, actually what Jennifer and I do is basically
we buy a a half pound bag ofcoffee whenever we're having
company because, just because weeat so little coffee.
I know.
Because you
Francis (35:41):
usually give whatever's left to me and say, here, take
us home.
Answer.
Hey, I hope you've enjoyed thehour with the restaurant Guys,
I'm Francis Shop right on MarkPascal.
We are the restaurant guys.
1450 WCTC.
The Times 12 noon.
Good morning, mark.
Hey Francis, how are you?
I'm well.
How are you this morning?
I'm doing great.
I got to have a lovely dinnerwith a bunch of very close
friends last night.
Some really good food, somereally exceptional wine.
Francis (00:54):
We had a little dinner at the restaurant.
I had the gentleman who were inmy, uh, my groomsmen.
And our partner Lou, come joinus for dinner at our own
restaurant last night.
Fun Busman's holiday.
Mark (01:03):
It was big fun.
It was big fun.
Although, I have to say we werea little raucous.
I think we might have offendedsome of the other tables that
were close by.
We were, oh, maybe they'll writea letter.
Kinda allowed.
Maybe they'll write a letter tothe owner.
Francis (01:13):
Well, we, it was in, the reason we got together last
night that I, I think isinteresting is I, we got
together with Mon Taylor.
Mm-hmm.
A guy named Michael Deru ofMichael Derulo years.
Um, we should have him on theshow.
Sure.
Um, and what we've decided to dois not.
In my, in our wedding.
I'm not asking the bridal partyto wear formal attire, no
tuxedos.
Um, we're just gonna go a littlemore casual.
(01:36):
We're gonna go with a jacket andpants, but I, I want,
Mark (01:38):
well, you know, I think that there, the reason for that
might be what?
That.
You sometimes have to wear atuxedo for work.
So if you have to also wear onefor your wedding, then it seems
you're mixing work and weddingtoo much.
Francis (01:50):
You know, it all.
It also comes down to, I knowit's become the modern
convention for the bridal partyto be in formal attire.
Mm-hmm.
While everybody else at thewedding is, is in semi-formal
atti.
I've always found that to bestrange and I, and I, I
aesthetically, I I don't dig it.
Mark (02:04):
Did you find it strange when you were in my wedding
party and you did it?
Yeah, I did, but I was, but Iwas good.
Thanks for that.
And I kept, and I kept it quietuntil now, now 15 years later.
Sorry.
Sorry.
I thought this is dumb.
Sorry.
Thanks very much for that.
So you mean the fact that intuxedos basically were us, uh,
the, the bridal and, andgroomsmen parties and the.
(02:26):
String quartet.
Yeah, that's it.
That's, those are the people,people in tuxedo.
Francis (02:29):
Well, you know, I just, I, I, I've been to a couple of
black tie weddings, uh, inbeautiful places in the city.
Very elegant.
But, you know, not everybodyowns a tuxedo, so you're asking
all of your guests who don't owna tuxedo to go rent a tuxedo and
all the women to go buy a dress.
That's, that's, you know, unlessyou're, you're dealing with a
set of people that, you know,wears a tuxedo every once a
month, several times a year.
(02:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, we do for work andevents that we attend, but most
people don't.
So.
I, I didn't want to do that.
The black tie thing.
Mm-hmm.
And I think it's fine to do,especially since we're gonna get
married outside, uh, to do this,the semi-formal thing, but we
wanted the groomsmen tocoordinate.
And I'm having a suit that'sdifferent from the groomsmen and
the, the groomsmen all havejackets and pants that sort of
make sense together.
(03:10):
It'll look nice in a weddingphoto.
Um, but.
What we're having done is Ijust, I got everyone to come
together.
You know, you can always bribepeople with food and wine.
It works out great.
It does work every time.
Um, every time.
And, and Michael, the Taylorcame, it seems like a very old
world thing, Mike, the, theTaylor came and just measured
everybody that when they werethere, so people didn't have to
go piecemeal down to Michael's.
(03:30):
Shop
Mark (03:31):
right.
One at a time.
Each person went down to, to theroom and got measured by
Michael, while the rest of uskind of enjoyed hor d'oeuvres
and cocktails.
Francis (03:38):
Well, and they either making clothes for mm-hmm.
For, for you guys.
And one of the things I thoughtabout in making this choice was.
You know, the jacket, shirt andpants that all you guys are
gonna buy is more expensive thanrenting a tuxedo would be
Mark (03:52):
significantly.
Francis (03:53):
However, at the end of renting a tuxedo, you give the
tuxedo back.
Mark (03:57):
Yes, except I own a tuxedo.
Well, but yeah.
Francis (03:59):
But in my way, if I did the normal thing, you wouldn't
be allowed to wear.
Right.
I'd have a different, I, I wouldtux.
My tuxedo would, my tuxedo wouldbe else.
I could wear a sky blue PeterBrady tuxedo with a, with a
ruffled shirt if I wanted, andyou have to wear it.
Mark (04:10):
Big fan of the sky blue ruffled shirt.
I, I'm so sorry to be missingout on that.
Um.
Francis (04:14):
But at the end of, at the end of this, there is an
expense, but basically I, I'veasked you to buy a jacket, pants
and a shirt.
Presumably at some point youwere going to buy a jacket,
pants and a shirt.
Mark (04:23):
Yes.
But I can no longer wear thisjacket tie in shirt anywhere
that any of the other groomsmenmight be.
Francis (04:30):
You could accidentally want looking like a, like a
barbershop quartet somewhere.
If you're
Mark (04:34):
not for fear, for fear of, uh, the, the.
The possibility that one of ourfriends will also be say, oh, I
can wear that.
That looks so good on me.
You
Francis (04:42):
have other friends that you can wear it with?
I guess I do, but one of thethings that struck me that I
really like is I.
I go to a tailor now.
Mm-hmm.
And I, I have kind of a largeneck, so off the rack's clothes
don't fit me very well.
Mark (04:54):
I have a large neck, but a large everything else.
So it, so off the rack clothesfit me a little bit?
No,
Francis (04:57):
it's, it's, it's sort of if my, if, if the shirt fits
me in the neck, I'm, uh, I'mwearing a parachute.
Mm-hmm.
And if the shirt fits my body, Ican't button it.
So I,
Mark (05:05):
I'm wearing a parachute as well.
Unfortunately, the parachuteactually hits so sorry about
that.
Francis (05:10):
Nothing.
I, not my fault.
So, but we're partially yourfault.
You're wrong, but you're right.
What I've done though is.
I started getting shirts custommade by Michael.
Mm-hmm.
And they're great and they'rereally reasonable.
They get you, if I get 10 doneat a time, they're, they're
pretty, they're prettyreasonable and they're lovely
shirts and they fit.
Mm-hmm.
Because for years, I, I hadshirts fit right.
And now I'm buying more and moreof my clothes from this one guy,
(05:30):
and it's a very old fashioned,old world way to do things
because now he knows what Iwant.
Mm-hmm.
And, and he'll do anything from,you know, from, for my wedding.
He's making me a custom madesuit but I've bought suits from
him off the well.
He has the rack suits off.
The rack suits, and pretty muchhe has my measurements.
And I call him up and I say,Hey, listen, I need five shirts,
three pairs of pants, twosweaters, and they come in the
(05:51):
mail.
Mark (05:51):
Actually, you know what I like?
That is really what he does ishe is, he matches your suit and
your tie and your shirt.
Like the gar animals.
Yeah.
And so you come to work like,Hey, that all really goes
together.
Well, great job.
Francis (06:02):
And the other thing he does that, that I find is really
interesting, I, I, I, it's notreally about food, but it is the
finer things in life.
It is indeed the finer things inlife.
I, and I'm new to this world.
I've been buying from him for acouple of years now.
And, um, he keeps a record ofeverything that I've bought so
he knows what's in my closet.
And he actually came over andlooked in my closet and sort of
did a survey of what I have.
Mm-hmm.
(06:22):
So he know and he is got a greatmemory for all this stuff.
And so I email him sort of whatI want and.
if he needs anything from me, heactually comes to my work and
it, or, or he'll meet mewherever.
And I find this very oldfashioned.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and very pleasant.
A very, very pleasant way to dobusiness.
What
Mark (06:39):
I liked about last night, and that was great that we got
together and you, you got to.
Um, basically get, get, takecare of the business of the, of
the evening, which was, whichwas getting fitted for, for our
clothes, for the, for thewedding.
Uh, what I liked about it morewas, uh, and you talk about, or
old world, was you got all yourclosest friends together and we
(07:01):
sat around and what could havebeen kind of a, a perfunctory.
45 minutes, let's get this thingdone and then go back to the
rest of our lives, became a fourand a half hour meal and
discussion about politics andfood and wine and, and
everything else you couldpossibly think of, but it, but
you, you took the opportunity ofwe need to do this thing
(07:24):
together to get your friendstogether and to share a meal and
to share some wine.
And to talk about something'simportant and something's not
important.
And I, and I just in the worldtoday, I don't see enough of
that.
There isn't enough of thathappening, of taking those
opportunities to say, you knowwhat?
We have to accomplish thisthing.
Let's accomplish it.
(07:45):
And at the same time, let's,let's get together.
Francis (07:48):
You know, I found this whole wedding planning thing
and, um, the, the guest we hadon the show wrote a book about
the wedding industry.
Mm-hmm.
A one perfect day.
Mm-hmm.
You should go look at that.
Up in the restaurant guys, radioarchives.
It's a great show to listen to.
And, and I'm, you know, I'vesort of known all that stuff all
along.
We're being in the business.
Yeah, I have some connectionsthat make things easier.
I have a staff of people whowork in restaurants mm-hmm.
(08:10):
Who make things easier for me inthis wedding planning thing.
But besides that, we, Jenniferand I, are just not engaging in
a lot of the stuff that peoplefeel they have to engage in.
Mm-hmm.
And the wedding planning hasreally not been very much of a
headache.
You know.
Well, you're
Mark (08:25):
also not quite to the end yet, those last couple weeks,
and you're all Yeah.
But I know people trying to makeit stress
Francis (08:29):
about it and fight about it for a year.
You're right.
And there's no reason for that.
And we're just making, let yourwife have whatever she wants.
Yes.
Number one.
And number two, we just want tohave a venue where people can
come together, enjoy the day,have good music and good food,
and I want the groomsmen and thebridesmaids to look good.
And that's it.
And, and those are the thingsthat are really, you might wanna
Mark (08:48):
choose some different, uh, groomsmen.
Francis (08:49):
Yeah, exactly.
Well, we look as good as theycan.
We'll be back in just a moment.
You're listening to theRestaurant guys.
Hey everybody, welcome back.
You're listening to theRestaurant guys, mark and
Francis of Stage left, andCatherine Lombardi.
Our guest today is Kim HasserRoad.
She's written several books, 101Margaritas, 101 Martinis, and
101 Sangrias.
And picture drinks.
Mark (09:10):
Hi Kim.
How are you?
That's like 303 drinks.
Speaker 10 (09:12):
Yeah.
Three.
Three.
Yeah.
Yeah.
My husband's a lucky guy.
The, uh, the taste tester.
Francis (09:17):
So now you have your own firm, liquid architecture,
you're sort of an architect ofdrinks.
How does that work?
Speaker 10 (09:24):
Right.
You know, I do a lot of, um, alot of drink development for
various, you know, liquor brandsas well as restaurant groups,
hotel chains, and kind ofintroducing mixology.
And, you know, reallyincorporating fresh ingredients
into the beverage program.
Francis (09:38):
So, I mean, sangria would be like the fresh
ingredients, incorporatedposter, child of drinks.
So talk, talk to us aboutsangrias.
Speaker 10 (09:45):
Yeah, I love sangrias.
I mean, you know, a, atraditional sangria is, you
know, it's basically a winepunch.
It's red wine with, uh, freshfruit, some kind of modifier,
like a brandy and some kind ofbleeding agent, like sugar.
And you know, there really isno.
Perfect sangria recipe.
And what I like to do is reallyuse kind of the fruit as the
(10:05):
driving force.
Um, so for example, you know,taking a trip to your local
farmer's market or grocery storeand kind of seeing, you know,
what fruits and ingredients lookfresh and, you know, build a
sangria around that and kind ofuse that as your.
As you're driving force andfoundation,
Mark (10:20):
you know, Kim, as a kid, I remember going to my
grandfather's house and he, itwasn't a, a true sangria, but
when peaches, when he hadpeaches that weren't ripe enough
or he didn't suspect they weregonna get rip enough, he would
drop them into kind of a simplered wine and just let the, the
peaches soak in that red wine.
And you know, as a kid, I.
I generally got more peachesthan I did of the red wine, but
(10:43):
still there was, there was someserious red wine in there and
you know, using fruits in wine.
We've been doing this for a longtime.
Speaker 10 (10:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, even though RIAskind of have roots in Spain, you
know, it'd be hard to imaginethe sangrias really not, you
know, being, it's hard toimagine RIAs not being around,
you know, the wines were, youknow.
First discovered, you know, thatsomeone actually dropped some
fruit and some wine.
You know, I don't think that'sthe too, too much of a, a novel
(11:12):
idea.
Um, but, you know, being able,you know, to your point of being
able to put, you know, any kindsof fruit in there and, you know,
I think the wines and the sugarelement will actually kind of
make.
The, um, the fruit's a littlebit sweeter and kind of seep
into the wine, you know, um, alittle easier making for kind of
a fruit forward.
Francis (11:31):
You know, I have, I have to say, I'm a, I'm a, a
pretty big fan of, of Sangriaand our, our business partner,
uh, his, his, uh.
Uh, parents are originally from,he's, he's born in Cuba and his,
his parents were born in, inSpain, in Gia.
And, uh, he makes a pretty meansangria.
Um, so I've been kind ofspoiled, but I've been to bars
(11:52):
and restaurants where they'lljust take some fruit and throw
it in red wine.
That, that doesn't quite assangria make, does it?
You need the brandy and thesoaking, don't you?
Speaker 10 (11:59):
Yeah.
You know, I think ideally, youknow, you wanna make a sangria
ahead of time, you know, Iideally the, a night before in
advance and, you know, just.
Regarding the wines, you know,I, I.
Don't think that you should usean expensive wine, but I think
that you should use a decentwine, you know, I mean, off the
rack, reds kind of in the, youknow, in the$10 range, um, maybe
even a little bit less expensivethan that are perfect.
Mark (12:22):
Um, well, we, we say, we say all the time, don't, don't
cook with a wine you wouldn'tdrink.
Certainly don't make sangriawith a wine you wouldn't drink.
Speaker 10 (12:30):
Uh, absolutely.
No, no, no.
You definitely wanna have, youknow, a great wine is really
gonna be, you know, hold up to alot of those fruits, but at the
same time, you don't reallywanna go.
Too expensive because, you know,some of those wines that are,
you know, these, these greatBordeauxs, these great wines,
you know, like in the, the$40range and up, you know, what
makes those wines so great aresome of its natural, you know,
subtleties, right?
(12:51):
The nuance, you know, littleflavors that you pick up on the
mouth feel and the texture.
And when you mix it with fruitand, and you know, spirits and,
you know juices, you kind oflose some of those subtleties.
So, um, you know, what makes agreat wine really good is, you
know.
It is not, doesn't reallytranslate that well into a
sangria.
Not
Mark (13:09):
necessarily what makes a great sangria.
Great.
Speaker 10 (13:12):
Right, right, right, right.
Francis (13:14):
Well now, so what are your, what are your big tips for
making Sangria in addition tomaking it the night before, if
you can, what are your tips onmaking Sangria.
Speaker 10 (13:22):
Um, it's actually a couple things.
You know, as far as the, thetypes of wines to use when
you're making a red sangria, youknow, it, it's great, great to
use a really hearty wine like aRioja or a rah or a sangiovese,
something that's really gonnahold up to the fruit.
When I made this book, Iactually experimented with a lot
of different wines and, um, youknow.
(13:42):
Wines like Pinot, no.
Noir seem to be a little, alittle too delicate for sangria.
Didn't really hold up as well,but, um, you know, to kind of
use a hardy wine is, um.
A strong point also todefinitely use fresh
ingredients, um, and some kindof sweetening agent, like a, a
simple syrup or even a flavoredsyrup.
Um, and if you're going to makeit the night before where it has
(14:03):
hours to kind of infuse into thewine, you don't need to add as
much sugar.
It will actually get sweeter thelonger you let it sit there.
Um, if you're gonna make it justa few hours in advance, you will
need a little more sugar to kindof help that.
Um.
Uh, help the fruits actuallyinfuse into the wine a little
bit more.
Um,
Mark (14:19):
one of the, one of the tricks, my, my partner, in the
restaurant, mine and Francis'third partner that we were just
talking about, uh, does, is hesoaks the fruit in the brandy
before he puts all of thosethings into the wine.
just to kind of turn the octaneof the, of the cocktail up a
little bit.
Uh, have, have you, have youever had any experience doing
that?
Speaker 10 (14:39):
Yeah.
In fact, I think one of therecipes, I actually may, I think
I soak some of the berries in,in Graham Manet, if you wanna
make it, um, a little bitstronger, you know, one kind of
trick that I do if I don'treally have a lot of time to
make a sangria to kind of startwhat I call the fruit bleed into
the drink, is they may sure.
Sort of slightly macerate thefruit.
I don't wanna, you know, muddleit or, or, you know, make it
(14:59):
really mushy, but just kind ofslightly macerate it to, to just
start the bleed, uh, faster intothe drink.
another good tip is when you'recutting the fruit, um,
especially citrus fruit, is toscore the skin.
And to cut them into some, youknow, unique shapes like, you
know, wheels or half wheels, or,you know, even using cookie
cutters, you know, like in theshape of the star circles, if
(15:19):
you wanna kinda have some funideas with apples or pineapples,
you know, to make it a littlemore, uh, visually enhancing.
Francis (15:26):
We're talking with Kim Hasbro about her new book, a
hundred and Ones GR and PictureDrinks.
Now with 101 Kim, there have tobe some that are kinda, I don't
know, maybe a little lessexpected Sangrias.
What was your, what was yourhundred and first sangria?
Speaker 10 (15:39):
Um, uh, you know, I really get, I get pretty crazy
in the book and really kind of,uh, stretch the boundaries a
bit.
And I use things like hibiscustea, um, and saki and uh, lemon
cello into the, uh, sangria andthat's kind of hits home the
fact that there really is noright or wrong way to make a
sangria.
you know, really.
(16:00):
The door is really wide open asfar as using lots of different
various fruits, you know, fromcherries to guava to papaya, to
blackberries to differentspirits, you know, ranging from
rum to saki to sweet oo andcordial.
So I think, you know, really thesky's the limit.
Mark (16:15):
Yeah.
My recommendation there isthough, try some of these things
in small quantities.
'cause how many times have Ibeen to a party and somebody's
made, you know, four gallons ofsomething and said, oh, that
didn't come out the way I wanted
Francis (16:25):
it to.
Yeah.
Now, but do you, do you findthat.
Punches and sangrias and pitcherdrinks are finding a resurgence.
Speaker 10 (16:33):
I do.
I mean, you know, it's thiswhole mixology movement and
using fresh ingredients.
Um, uh, you know, I'm definitelyseeing kind of, you know, at
least in the restaurant and, youknow, hotel chain world that,
you know, it's a, it's a veryprofitable, um, drink mechanism
at the bar.
And it's also very, you know.
Easy to execute and, um, fresh.
(16:55):
I mean, you can really kind ofuse whatever's in your walk-in
coolers and kind of incorporatethat into a fresh.
Fresh punch or sangria.
And, and
Mark (17:03):
when you're at a party and you're hosting a party and
you're, you're in your house,these, using these ingredients
this way, using freshingredients, well, it's very
time consuming.
So making a, a sangria or apunch or something like that is
a great way to kind of freeyourself up to, to do the rest
of the party and still ha beusing fresh ingredients and, and
really good ingredients and havea, a cocktail there ready for
(17:25):
everybody to drink.
Speaker 10 (17:26):
Right.
You know, and, and, you know,and.
Having a party at home.
I think a lot of people feel alot of stress like, oh my God, I
need to have every type ofspirit out there.
What if someone wants an applemartini?
What if somebody wants acosmopolitan?
Whereas if you take like asangria and use incorporate
fresh ingredients, you know youcan do one drink and do it
really well.
Francis (17:43):
Well, and it's also perfectly acceptable I think in
Francis's book of gets to say,oh, I'm sorry, that's the
neighbor's party.
Why don't you go see if theyhave an apple martini?
We have sangria.
Uh, Kim Hasbro's book is 101 101Sangrias and Pitcher drinks.
Uh, you can find out more aboutit at our website, restaurant
guys radio.com.
Thanks being the show, Kim.
Speaker 10 (18:00):
Okay, thanks.
Francis (18:02):
Uh, Jeannie Kelly is a contributing editor at Bon
Appetit Magazine for a longtime.
Uh, she, uh, has written a newbook called Blue Eggs and Yellow
Tomatoes, recipes from a ModernKitchen Garden.
Mark (18:13):
Jeannie, welcome to the show.
Francis (18:15):
Thank you.
So what's with the Blue Eggsman?
Is that a are, aren't thoserobin's eggs?
Well, why, why blue eggs?
Speaker 11 (18:22):
No, those are actual chicken eggs.
Um, I have aana chickens in mybackyard and they lay eggs that
are that beautiful pale bluecolor.
Mark (18:31):
Yeah.
We actually have a, a local farmhere in Central Jersey that's
been here for hundreds of years,actually called Sudan Farms.
And they do blue eggs and greeneggs and brown eggs and white
eggs and uh, it's allinteresting.
Speaker 11 (18:42):
Yeah, talk to, I mean, they taste the same as the
brown eggs, but you know, it'sjust kind of fun.
Francis (18:47):
It's like, it's like Easter all the time.
So well talk to us about yourbook and, and talk to us about a
kitchen garden.
Now you live in a city or in anurban environment?
Speaker 11 (18:56):
I live in the city, yes.
I mean, I, I live basicallyabout 10 minutes from downtown
Los Angeles, but Los Angelesbeing kind of an odd, sprawling
city.
There are little pockets whereyou have.
Space and I, I don't have muchspace, but I'm on a hillside and
so I do have this little tinyspot at the back of my hill
(19:17):
where I keep my chickens and mypet goat.
And then at the bottom of mystreet, which is about 50 yards
from my house, um, there's acommunity garden where I.
Keep my kitchen garden.
Mark (19:29):
That's great.
I have to say though, here incentral Jersey you are frowned
upon if you have a goat.
Francis (19:34):
Yeah.
They're not crazy about thechickens either.
Talk to us about keeping animalsin, in an urban environment.
Speaker 12 (19:40):
Um, well, it's legal, right?
But they, which is
Speaker 11 (19:48):
important.
Um, it's, there's somethingreally great about chickens.
I mean, the goat, the goat iskind of.
Fun.
It's more of a conversationalpiece, and she's great for
weeding, but the chickens aregreat because they provide me
with the most wonderful eggs.
Speaker 9 (20:02):
Mm-hmm.
The eggs
Speaker 11 (20:03):
are so fresh and so delicious, and it's really kind
of worked into this whole systemthat we have of the gardening
and the composting and all thelittle green bits of scraps from
the garden that I feed, thechicken, and then the chicken
manure that goes into thecompost, and then the compost
and then the garden.
So I feel like I've created thisgreat little.
Natural kind of farmer cycleright here in the city.
Mark (20:27):
Your own little circulatory system working
Right, right there.
My, my dad had a little farmlike that up, up in upstate New
York when I was a kid, and, andwe got to see all of that.
But the, the, the part that youjust touched on that, that is
rings so true to me besides thecomposting and, and everything
having a purpose is how greatthe eggs tasted when they were
(20:48):
fresh.
When they were really a, a freshegg.
Most people in this countrynever really eat a fresh egg.
Speaker 11 (20:55):
No.
There's really no comparisonbetween the egg that I get from
the chicken to the egg at thesupermarket.
It's just they look different.
They taste different.
They act
Mark (21:06):
different in the pan.
They, the shelves are different.
You, I mean, yeah.
Speaker 11 (21:09):
They,
Speaker 12 (21:10):
they do that funny thing, you know, with the yolk
just stands up so high and,mm-hmm.
Oh, it's just, it's so good.
Francis (21:16):
So now talk to us about this lovely book that you've
written.
It's, it's, it is a large coffeetable book with pictures, and I
think a lot of people find, um,pictures very helpful in, in a
cookbook.
Why do we need a cookbookspecifically about our kitchen
garden?
Speaker 11 (21:29):
Well, I, I try not to see the book as specifically
about the kitchen garden.
For me, those are just littleadditions to what I see.
Mostly as a collection of reallygood recipes.
Um, I've been, you know,working, writing.
Cooking articles for magazinesfor years.
I do a lot of work for cookinglight, a lot of work for Bon
Appetit.
So I, and I used to work as arecipe tester, so I, I know how
(21:52):
to make a recipe that works andI just started kind of compiling
recipes over time of things thatI just really felt were things I
wanted to make over and overagain.
Things that I felt cook shouldhave in their repertoire.
So I, I made this collection ofrecipes and then I felt like,
well, gee, part of cooking isalso, I mean, for me personally,
is also this idea of the growinggleaning process too.
(22:16):
So I just felt like if this isgonna be a, a guide for people
to cook, it should also providesomething else.
And there is this kind of funaspect of having the growing
guide.
And then the little chickenkeepers guide.
And certainly by all means, ifyou don't have any intention
Speaker 12 (22:34):
to
Speaker 11 (22:35):
start a kitchen garden or raise chickens, uh,
the, the book is still a greatcollection of recipes.
Mark (22:40):
Well, and also, I, I think that one of the things that,
that you're neglecting in, in,uh, talking about your own book
is.
Something that I love when a,when a book includes is here's
what you need to stock yourpantry in order to make the
things that, that I'm laying outfor you.
Here's what go shopping, here'sthe salts you should buy.
(23:01):
The kinds of salt, the kind offlour, all those, all the things
that you need to put in yourpantry before you can start
going because, uh, for me, themost frustrating thing is.
It's six o'clock at night.
I, I've bought the basicingredients that I need to, to
make a recipe and I startleafing through and realize, oh,
I don't have the, whateveringredient, the right kind of
salt
Francis (23:21):
can I share, can I share with you?
That happened to me last night.
I was going to make, um,cornbread.
I got this wonderful cast iron,uh, cookware that I used to make
cornbread in the oven and I hada new recipe for it.
and I didn't look at itcarefully and I started the
recipe and then it said, andthen put in the buttermilk.
And I thought, I, I don't, Idon't have buttermilk, I have
butter, I have milk.
Uh
Speaker 11 (23:42):
oh.
Well, you know, buttermilk keepsforever, so I just buy it all
the time.
When I buy milk, I buybuttermilk because it's just.
I don't know.
It just seems like it doesn't gobad.
You know,
Francis (23:52):
I, I work in the restaurant business, right?
So I'm, I'm not home Most nightseverything
Mark (23:55):
goes bad in Francis's fridge.
Look, jelly goes bad inFrancis's fridge.
Look in my
Francis (23:59):
refrigerator and there's jelly.
There's a couple of beers andsome mustard.
Oh,
Speaker 11 (24:03):
I know.
It's, that's hard when you'reworking in a restaurant kitchen
to have, find the gumption towork in your own kitchen.
But yet, no.
To get back to the idea of, of apantry guide, I do hear that
refrain from people.
They go, how do you just whipthis stuff up?
Just make this.
And I'm like, well, because I'vegot, I've got the olives and
I've got the, the, you know, mytomato paste and I have
(24:25):
pomegranate molasses.
You know, these things are thestaples.
They're just there.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, and I do feelthat, that so many young people
these days, they're not gettingany assistance in how to.
Learn how to stock a, a pantry.
It's just not common senseanymore.
And so, well, I felt like Iwanted to provide that.
Francis (24:43):
And speaking from experience, when you do wanna be
a, uh, have, be a good cook athome, one of the disadvantages
to the way that, that I, I havelived for the last many years
working in a restaurant is I geta night off and then I work five
or six nights, and then I get anight off.
When you are cooking at home acouple of nights a week, what
what should happen is you canhave that pantry, you can have
that larder stock.
(25:04):
So you pull a couple of thingsdown.
Um, and you know, you also haveleftovers from the night before
that, and
Mark (25:09):
you can do things in advance for your event two days
from now.
Francis (25:12):
Right.
So now the, your cooking bookalso, one of the things I like
about it is you talk aboutkeeping a pale in the kitchen
for, uh, and composting.
Speaker 11 (25:20):
Yes.
Francis (25:21):
Talk to us about composting.
Speaker 11 (25:22):
Composting is so easy and so important.
I just, I recently went on alittle trip.
My niece got married in Nevadaand.
I just was a, I just wasappalled, you know, at the, the
amount of waste that that wasjust happening from a family
living in a house for a few daysbecause there was no compost.
Pile, there was no recycling,there were no dogs.
Speaker 9 (25:44):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 11 (25:45):
And I mean, I just, I hate waste.
And so, you know, my dogs eatany kind of protein, meat
leftovers, and the, the chickensand the goat get all of the
little like garden scraps.
And then anything that, I don'twant the chickens and the goat
to eat onion skins, coffeegrounds eggshells.
Citrus, you know, green scrapsthat they wouldn't eat.
(26:06):
That all goes into my compostpile.
And a compost pile is just awonderful way to reduce.
The amount of waste that you putinto the landfill, and also you
get a wonderful benefit from itbecause it makes such a great
additive to your soil for yourgarden.
Mark (26:24):
You would be amazed at how many things can go in that
compost as well.
I mean, your grass clippings,your egg shells, there's coffee
grinds, all kinds of things thatjust end up in your garbage end
up in your, in your compost.
But one thing I, I wanted tosay, Jeannie is.
When I was a kid, I was about 12years old and I was very excited
'cause,'cause my dad got a dog,Uhhuh.
(26:44):
And then I realized, then Irealized exactly what you said.
The reason he got a dog isbecause he was born in, in a war
torn World War II and didn'twanna waste any food.
Yeah.
So he got that dog strictly tobe a, a consumer of, of, of the,
what would've been wasted food.
Speaker 12 (27:02):
Well, I hope the dog became your pal.
Mark (27:04):
It did indeed.
I don't know that it was hispal, but it was mine for sure.
Francis (27:07):
You know, Jeannie, this is a beautiful book.
It's a coffee table book, andthe pictures are gorgeous.
What, why, first of all, why didyou, decide to have it, the
pictures be so integral to thisbook, and, and how did you
select the, the.
What pictures to go there andhow to style of food?
Speaker 11 (27:24):
Well, I was very lucky in the fact that I had a
great art director at RunningPress books.
Her name is Francis Ing Chow,and she just was fantastic.
So a lot of the vision and, andthe design is her concept.
Um, one of the things that I hadthe benefit of doing was I was
the food stylist for the book.
(27:46):
And a lot of, uh, cookbookauthors don't style food, or
even if they do, they don't havethe opportunity to do that.
And for me, I got to fly toPhiladelphia.
And stay there for about 10days.
And we did about eight to 10shots a day and we did all of
the food photography there.
So, um, so
Mark (28:05):
you got to match your own food with your own, uh, style
Exactly.
Stylistically the way you wantedit to be.
Speaker 11 (28:11):
Exactly.
Because, you know, I had a, youknow, I have a certain aesthetic
the way I like your vision Yeah.
To, to present food.
And so that was really excitingfor me to get to, to, to make
the food and have it look, youknow.
The way I like it to look.
Now,
Francis (28:24):
let, let's talk about that because we obviously, you
know, we run a couple ofrestaurants and, and we.
Have food that's has to bephotographed at some point to,
to show to the public.
Food styling is veryinteresting.
There are a lot of rules to howto make food look good in a
picture.
It's not the
Mark (28:40):
same as how to make it look good on a plate for, for
eating necessarily.
Francis (28:44):
Why?
Why don't you talk to us abouthow things that photographers
need to do to make food look theproper, the way it should look
in the photograph?
Speaker 11 (28:51):
Well, you know, it's changing a lot.
It used to be that they would dofood styling and the food was
very fake.
They would always coat thingsand paint things and make things
very kind of plastic.
And now I think with just, uh,probably the whole techno
technology of photography beingso advanced, photographers can
be so fast now.
They don't have to spend hourson lighting and this and that.
(29:13):
They can just get it done.
And so for me, you know, all thefood was totally natural.
Um, the one trick that I didevery once in a while.
Hardly because Steve Legato, whowas the photographer for this
book, was so gra fast and sogreat, and he uses a really
beautiful lighting technique, isthat, you know, every once in a
(29:33):
while you might spray somethingwith a little Pam just to make
it shine a tiny bit.
Speaker 9 (29:37):
Mm-hmm.
But
Speaker 11 (29:38):
otherwise everything was just very natural.
You do just.
Uh, you know, you have to make apoint when you're plating things
to plate it in an attractivemanner.
You always hold back on certainingredients so that you can add
them at the last minute so thatthey, that they stand out, you
know, so that they're, thatthey're visual.
Mark (29:56):
Well, the other, the other thing is when you're.
Photographing food, especiallyhot foods, meats and things like
that.
If that, once they cool, theydon't photograph as well.
Yeah.
So the speed element that you'retalking about is really
important.
Speaker 11 (30:09):
It is really important.
And, you know, I came preparedwith my little blowtorch, which
is, um, great.
That you use, like if you havemeat.
And the meat, um, has beensitting there for a while and
then you know how the little fatpart on it starts to get white
and
Speaker 9 (30:25):
solid?
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 11 (30:26):
You can kind of hit that with a blowtorch and then
that, that.
Makes it turn into fat again.
And Steve was so fast that,well, I never even needed to use
it.
Mark (30:36):
You know, I've heard that you can save that blowtorch for
your creme bru light next time.
Francis (30:38):
Exactly.
I've, I've heard that when youphotograph meat, uh, it, it's
always done.
Very, very rare.
Is that, is that, is that true?
Speaker 11 (30:47):
Um, well, I think it looks more attractive when it's
rare, but you have to make sureit's cooked and doesn't have
that raw look.
I remember one of the firsttimes I did some, uh, a rack of
lamb, uh, the photographer was,was just very impressed that I
was able to cook it to the righttemperature, which brings me to
one of my favorite kitchentools, an instant read
(31:09):
thermometer.
Mm-hmm.
And boy, I just think that.
People are foolish to cookwithout an instant read
thermometer.
Yeah.
It's
Francis (31:17):
a valuable, valuable tool for the home cook if once
you, and you know, even if it,you're experimenting with your
own stuff, if you wanna be ableto replicate what you did the
next time.
Right.
You need to know to know wherethings are.
Speaker 11 (31:27):
Oh, exactly.
And when you think, you know, ifa rack of lamb is gonna cost you
20 bucks, you know why?
Why risk it?
Right.
Exactly.
You've got a$5 tool that youknow, it's just, I don't know.
Makes things so easy.
Mark (31:42):
Absolutely.
Well, Jeannie, I want you toknow it was only a little blurb
in your book, but it, it was my,one of my absolute favorite
things in the world to do.
And it's cooking with duck fat.
Yes.
And I, one of the mostunderappreciated, vehicles in
the world for, for making greatfood is specially potatoes, is
duck fat.
Speaker 11 (31:59):
You know, I actually ate some potatoes roasted in
duck fat last night.
Boy, they were just sodelicious.
Mark (32:06):
I, I'll never forget the first time I had'em, a, a guy by
the name of David Page who ownedhome Restaurant now owns Shin
Vineyards out on Long Island,uh, made'em for me.
We had a, a kind of an all nightbarbecue that kind of went to
morning time and in the morninghe got up and made everybody
hash browns made in duck fat.
And I've never forgotten it.
And I never will.
Francis (32:26):
Well, thanks, uh, so much for coming on our show.
The book is lovely.
Thank you, mark.
Speaker 11 (32:30):
Thank you, Francis.
Francis (32:31):
It was great to have you, and if you wanna find out
more about Blue eggs and yellowtomatoes recipes from a modern
kitchen, you can go to ourwebsite, restaurant guys
radio.com.
We'll be back in just a moment.
(32:55):
Hey everybody.
Welcome back, mark and Francis,the restaurant guys.
Uh, Jeannie Kelly, duck Fat.
You were talking about duck fat.
Oh, yeah.
Mark (33:02):
really and truly one of my favorite ingredients in the
world.
Really underappreciated.
Uh, not easy to find unless yourender your own ducks as we do.
But, uh, what a greatingredient.
What a great way to, to cookfoods.
Trust me, if you're cookingpotatoes in oil, Cook'em in duck
fat one time, you'll never goback.
Francis (33:21):
You know, we don't roast a lot of ducks in my home.
Um, and we don't roast a lot ofgeese in my home, but, but
whenever we do, I will keep theduck fat from the bottom of the
pan.
'cause whenever you roast a duckor goose, they express a lot of
fat.
So you gotta,
Mark (33:34):
especially a goose.
Oh my goodness.
Francis (33:35):
You gotta, you gotta put'em on a rack.
And actually with a goose, itrenders so much fat that you
gotta pull some of that fatoutta the pan during the cooking
process.
Mm-hmm.
Or it'll overflow.
Um, and it'll like.
It will rise up beyond the rackand your goose will be frying in
its own fat.
Mark (33:47):
And the other thing that will happen is what an ungodly
mess you will have in your oven.
It's, uh, your, your goose willbe cooked awful.
Let's shame on you for goingthere.
Francis (33:57):
But the thing is you can keep that stuff on the
counter, uh, and then use thatto make your eggs or whatever.
Mm-hmm.
We use, we do keep our baconfat.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and we use that as large.
To do a whole bunch of stuffwhen we want dry stuff.
Yeah.
You just need to be
Mark (34:08):
careful with the bacon fat that once it's burned, you
really, you really ha it reallytakes on kind of a, unpleasant
flavor.
But, uh, yeah, bacon fatdefinitely works and we just
keep it on the
Francis (34:18):
counter covered.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, room temperature.
I mean, I use it in, in lieu ofbutter in a lot of applications.
It's great to, to, if you wannacook up some vegetables, throw a
little bit of bacon fat onthere.
I know.
I'm horrifying.
Health food, you know,everywhere.
You know what, I still
Mark (34:30):
can, I tell you, Francis, you just said something.
I still put my, my, uh, duck fatand bacon fat in the fridge.
Sorry.
I, I just do.
Francis (34:37):
Well they say, you know, we, we'll have to look up
that, but they say that, um,people can get into trouble with
that because the condensationforms.
Mm-hmm.
When you take it out of the.
Fridge.
So if you, if you put it in thefridge, leave it there and never
take it out.
You gotta reach in the fridge,scoop what you need, and put it
on the, on the pan right away.
Yes.
Or, or your condensation isgonna form, which will lead to
rancidity.
Right.
So a lot of, not everything isbest kept in the refrigerator.
(34:58):
For instance, your coffee is nota good idea to keep coffee in
the refrigerator or the freezer.
'cause every time you take itout, even for just a moment, you
get condensation in there.
The condensation dilutes thecoffee and, and can lead it to,
to.
Two going bad.
So the freezer is not foreverything.
How
Mark (35:13):
about, how about at my house where we use coffee about
every six months?
Francis (35:17):
Still not in the freezer.
'cause
Mark (35:19):
we're, we're not huge coffee drinker.
So
Francis (35:20):
should go, should go in a sealed container.
And basically anything that's inoil often is better.
Not put in the refrigerator likeolive oil and the like, because.
Condensation forms inside thebottle.
Mark (35:31):
Actually, actually what Jennifer and I do is basically
we buy a a half pound bag ofcoffee whenever we're having
company because, just because weeat so little coffee.
I know.
Because you
Francis (35:41):
usually give whatever's left to me and say, here, take
us home.
Answer.
Hey, I hope you've enjoyed thehour with the restaurant Guys,
I'm Francis Shop right on MarkPascal.
We are the restaurant guys.
1450 WCTC.
The Times 12 noon.
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