May 1, 2025 • 36 mins
This is a Vintage Selection from 2007
The Banter
The Guys talk about restaurants being an integral part of emerging downtowns and about a yogurt shop that needs a bouncer.
The Conversation
The Restaurant Guys host Marcus Sammuelson to talk about cuisines all over the world, particularly the regions of Africa. He wants to open people’s eyes to the delicious flavors of African cuisine and expresses interest in opening an African restaurant someday. This dream finally happened in 2024!
The Inside Track
The Guys and Marcus discuss the uniqueness of the restaurant business and the power of food to communicate.
“Food is an incredible thing! Through food, people can see your passion and your culture. You can teach people where you're from and what you believe in, which not every business can really do,” Marcus Sammuelson on The Restaurant Guys Podcast 2007
Bio
Marcus Samuelsson is the chef behind many restaurants worldwide, including Red Rooster Harlem and Red Rooster Overtown in Miami; Hav & Mar in the Chelsea Arts District; Metropolis at the Perelman Performing Arts Center in lower Manhattan; “Marcus” restaurants in Atlanta and New Jersey, plus several international locations. His latest venture, Marcus DC debuts Spring 2025 at The Morrow in Washington DC.
In 2023, Marcus earned an Emmy Award for the Short Form Program “My Mark.” He is a longstanding judge and TV personality on the hit Food Network show Chopped, head judge of Top Chef: Family Style, and an Iron Chef on Netflix’s rebooted Iron Chef: Quest for an Iron Legend, and makes frequent appearances on Scandinavian TV. He is the author of multiple books including The New York Times bestseller Yes, Chef: A Memoir as well as the critically acclaimed The Rise: Black Cooks and the Soul of American Food.
Samuelsson is co-chair of Careers through Culinary Arts Program (C-CAP), which focuses on helping underserved youth.
Samuelsson was
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mark (00:40):
Morning, mark.
Hey Francis.
How are you?
I'm fine.
How are you this morning?
I'm doing great.
I'm glad I'm not doing thefirst, uh, little segment here
by myself.
Yeah.
Francis (00:48):
Got a little stuck on the, uh, nor Bay extension on
the way in today, but I made it.
Mark (00:51):
Yeah, sure did.
Um, just barely You're a littleruffled.
Francis (00:55):
Yeah.
I'm glad I made it today so thatyou didn't have to be the
restaurant guy on the show.
You know, last night I talked toa reporter from New Jersey
Monthly Magazine mm-hmm.
Who interviewed me about a veryinteresting topic.
Um, they wanted to hear ourtake, on downtowns in New
Jersey, on urban centers in NewJersey.
Mark (01:10):
Sure.
We both lived in New Brunswickfor a long time.
You even longer than I.
Uh, and we owned a, we've owneda restaurant in, in a downtown
urban area for 15 years.
Francis (01:19):
Well, I mean, that was the hook.
I mean, I think he, what hewanted, uh, to talk to.
And, you know, I live in JerseyCity.
I'm from Orange.
My dad was the Orange FireChief.
Mm-hmm.
I lived in New Brunswick.
You lived in New Brunswick.
But I think what he reallywanted to talk about was our
experience owning a business intown as a town changed.
I mean, we've been, had ourbusiness in town for 15 years.
We've been working in town for20 years.
And uh, it was very interesting.
(01:39):
I wound up talking to this guyand realizing just how much it
has changed.
Oh, oh, it's
Mark (01:43):
changed tremend.
New Brunswick a lot of ourlisteners have known New
Brunswick for a long time, butsome of you are, are relatively
recent to the area, but thetremendous, tremendous strides
that New Brunswick has made andchanges to the, to the
neighborhoods.
I, one of the things I tell mycustomers all the time where my
restaurant is right now, statetheaters a 3000.
Seat Event Theater.
(02:04):
George Street Playhouse, one ofthe best playhouses, regional
playhouses in, in the country.
Crossroads Theater, now is,operating as a, as a rental
concert venue, uh, concert venueor, or rental, 400 seats rental
event.
Um, if you told me I was gonnaopen a restaurant on this block
when I came to college in 1983.
I would've laughed in your face.
(02:25):
You said, I don't walk thereafter dark.
Yeah.
I forget it.
I don't, me and six of myfriends don't walk there after
dark.
Now you can't afford a condoacross the street.
Yeah.
And now a condo, condos acrossthe street are gone for over a
million dollars.
Francis (02:35):
But one of the things that we didn't talk about was
that, that we had seen over timeis how restaurants and bars and
liquor license establishmentsaffect a neighborhood.
Mm-hmm.
one of the things that that isvery interesting is, is New
Brunswick, like any city has.
different neighborhoods thathave different character to them
Local taverns in a residentialneighborhood, I think really can
add to a neighborhood.
(02:56):
But they've got, you've gottawatch them very closely and the
owners need to be veryresponsible.
Mark (03:00):
It depends on what kind of local tavern and there, I mean,
we've, again, you lived, uh, youknow, on Hartwell Street for a
number of years in,
Francis (03:07):
well, and that was near, that was near a local
tavern that had become a realcollege bar.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, hangout.
That was actually a place calledthe Plum Street Pub that was run
irresponsibly.
It was shut down by the city acouple times, or fined by the
city a couple times at the veryleast.
They used to dump, you know, 200drunk people on the street every
night at closing time, and itwas really disruptive at 3:00 AM
okay?
Mark (03:26):
Remember closing time in New Brunswick was 3:00 AM so by
the time you got everybody out,it's 3:30 AM
Francis (03:31):
Now there are a lot of other local bars who take great
pains to try and be a, a goodneighbor.
Like there's another place,little place called the Ellen,
which pub and a residentialcorner in.
They take great pains, uh,because they know that the
influx of people into aresidential neighborhood.
And if they become parkingissues, if they become too
popular, they can become avictim of their own success.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Mm-hmm.
Francis (03:49):
Because then they can impinge upon the neighbors.
But what I always thought wasvery interesting was in downtown
New Brunswick, where years agoI.
Pretty much no one lived.
Mm-hmm.
Um, the, the
Mark (04:01):
right, it was just when Francis says no one lived, it
was stores and, and shoptheaters and bars and
restaurants, theaters and barsand restaurants.
And, and there wasn't a, therewasn't really a populace that,
that lived and slept in thatarea of
Francis (04:13):
town.
And, and one of the ways andwhat that needed downtown
mm-hmm.
And what the, the powers that beand the, the local board of
directors realized, of the NewBrunswick City market, which is
the improvement districtdowntown, was that.
Just what was maybe not sohelpful to have a lot of people
clamoring for places to go inthe residential neighborhoods
where the bar was next to ahouse and the parking was on the
street and maybe blockingsomeone's driveway was exactly
(04:36):
what was needed downtown.
Mm-hmm.
And that sort of.
Led to the attitude thatfostered the restaurant
Renaissance in downtown NewBrunswick.
And well, what happened?
You put people on the streets atnight until late at night,
during the day, in theafternoon.
You made it a safe place to walkand a safe place to be.
And what do you have?
$800 million worth of luxuryhousing that's gone up in
(04:57):
downtown New Brunswick in lastI, it's
Mark (04:58):
actually a little bit more than that right now.
Francis (05:00):
I mean, plus you've got a brand new conference center
that's about to open, and NewBrunswick is known as a
restaurant mecca, and that thatincludes.
Fine restaurants and brew pubsand bars and taverns and, and a
place to walk around.
And that, to me, that speaks toa restaurant being a locus of
community.
But I think the point is that itdepends on the bar and it
depends on the neighborhood, buta restaurant and a bar, um, has
(05:21):
an impact on a community andthat can be a good impact and
that can be a bad impact.
Mark (05:25):
Well.
You know, there's a, there'sactually an article on the front
of the Times today in the, inthe food section.
Uh, it doesn't necessarily haveto be a restaurant or a bar to
have an impact on a communitylike that.
One of, one of the places that,that they're talking about in
the, in the Times today is theyogurt place in West Hollywood.
It's a yogurt place in WestHollywood.
And this place has become sopopular that cars are double
(05:47):
parking and sometimes the linesas much as an hour.
Cars are double parking for anhour to in order while they
stand online.
People are, there's this hugeinflux of people, and the people
who live around it are, areactually trying to get this
yogurt place shut down.
It's a yogurt place.
Okay?
We're no longer talking about abar.
We're no longer talking aboutthree 30 in the morning.
Francis (06:04):
It's called, it's called pink berries, right?
Ah-huh.
And you wanna know the irony ofit.
The owners, when they went toopen the yogurt place, had
originally tried to open a bar,but because the neighbors had
such concerns, uhhuh, theydidn't get their liquor license
right.
And so they changed ideas andopened the yogurt place.
Mark (06:20):
And the yogurt place is more popular probably than the
bar ever would've been.
Francis (06:24):
So the city council has now shortened their evening
hours and they're trying to workat a compromise, but they
literally have guards outside tocontrol the crowds, and they
have staff go and pick up thePinkberry cups from the
neighbor's lawn.
I can only wish for suchsuccess.
I can only wish for suchsuccess, maybe in the near
future.
But you know, I, I do think it'sinteresting because we were
talking about Jersey City.
We were talking about downtownNew Bruns.
(06:45):
We were talking about differentdowntowns.
And in this day and age, um,look, there aren't many factory
towns anymore.
And so, um,
Mark (06:53):
factory cities
Francis (06:54):
really, or factory cities that, or, or factory
towns.
There aren't places where, youknow, at least in New Jersey
where, um, the economy is drivenby manufacturing and many, what
do all the revitalized cities inNew Jersey have in common?
I.
Restaurants, what is Newark?
Trying desperately to get?
Mm-hmm.
More restaurants.
Better restaurants, because itbrings people out and provides a
(07:14):
center of community there have
Mark (07:16):
been a number of cities who've contact us to, say,
listen, do you want to come andopen a restaurant in our city?
We'll, we'll help you do that.
Francis (07:22):
There was actually one city that, that they brought us
in.
They showed us around andthey're like, okay, we'll, we'll
condemn any building you wantand put a restaurant in it.
And we were like, no, none.
None of these, none of these,this city calls in a few years.
When we come back, we're gonnabe talking with Marcus
Samuelson, a chef and author,who you've certainly heard of.
And, uh, he's gonna join us totalk about his new book in just
a moment.
You're listening to theRestaurant Guys, Hello everybody
and welcome back.
You're listening to theRestaurant Guys, mark and
(07:43):
Francis of Stage Left, andCatherine Lombardi.
Restaurants in downtown, newBrunswick, New Jersey.
And our guest today is MarcusSamuelson.
Marcus is chef and co-owner ofAquavit, new York's Premier
Scandinavian restaurant.
And culinary director of Ringo,an American Japanese fusion
restaurant.
He was the youngest chef ever toreceive three stars from the New
York Times, and he was namedBest Chef of New York City by
the James Beard Foundation in1999.
(08:05):
He joins us today, to discusshis new book, the Soul of A New
Cuisine, A Discovery of TheFoods and Flavors of Africa.
Mark (08:11):
Chef Marcus Samuelson, welcome to the show.
Marcus (08:14):
Thank you very much.
Thank you for having me.
Francis (08:16):
Oh, it's a pleasure to have you.
I've actually eaten your food.
I was at Ringo actually.
We met several years ago throughAnthony Gilio.
At your place?
Ringo, when we had a tremendousmeal.
Thank this new book, the Soul ofA New Cuisine.
Let's start with the title.
I mean, Africa's not a newplace.
It's a very old, continent witha lot of different cultures and,
and a lot of ancient cuisine.
(08:37):
Why did you call it the soul ofa new cuisine?
Marcus (08:39):
Well, I mean, I think it is, not new for, people from the
continent, but the newnessreally becomes when you, as we
here as American, start to useAfrican ingredients and maybe we
pair it with our own favoritedishes that we already have.
So maybe you do an African side,maybe you do a, an African rub
(09:00):
on your next chicken dish, sotherefore it becomes a new meal,
you know, new creation.
And the other thing thathappened that I want to do with
the book is also fellowAfricans.
Don't look at each other'scountry and borrow from each
other.
You know, uh, a German familymight cook Italian food three
days a week.
Uh, because Germans, theyvacation in Italy a lot and so
(09:23):
on, right.
And trade and so on with Italy.
Uh, a Moroccan family is notcooking Ethiopian meal two days
a week.
Ethiopian family is not lookingto and trying to cook a Nigerian
meal two days a week.
So, you know, it's, it's, I'malso.
Talking to fellow Africans aboutwhat's going on, about food in
other fellow African countries.
Mark (09:43):
So the countries are more isolated from one another.
Marcus (09:45):
Well, I wouldn't say even, not geographically, but
Yeah, exactly.
So much of this has to do withobviously large middle class
tourism.
Mm-hmm.
Vacationing, how do we knowabout food?
You know, how do we know aboutItalian food?
Yes.
Through history, but also bygoing to Italy.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Mm-hmm.
Marcus (10:02):
And how do we know about French food by traveling,
visiting there.
So.
It's not new at all, but it's,it's a part of the world that
we, for whatever reason, uh,haven't acknowledged and brought
in in the food family the way wehave, acknowledged and brought
in, uh, the rest of the worldyet doesn't mean it won't
happen.
Just, it took us a long time toembrace the whole Asian, uh,
(10:24):
community and it took a longtime.
To embrace the Latin in Americancommunity.
it didn't mean that that was newfood when, when Douglas brought
it to, to us, you know?
Mark (10:32):
Well, one of the things you talk about in, in the book,
and, I think a lot of people whoare in the, in the food business
realizes how differently peoplein the rest of the world eat
from Americans, although a lotof them are getting closer and
closer to the way we eat,probably, unfortunately.
But how really different it isin Africa and how, how plate
composition and.
In African food is verydifferent than it is here in
(10:54):
America.
Can you, can you just talk alittle bit about that?
Marcus (10:56):
Well, I mean, you know, we, and I'll say that we don't
have it figured out here either.
You know, I think, uh, the waypeople eat in Africa is very
encouraging.
You know, people have much lesseconomy, but they eat probably
better than we do.
Yeah.
They know organic withoutthinking about it.
They always eat together, youknow, there's no grandmother or
there's no child eating bythemselves.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
You know, there's
Marcus (11:18):
people eating together all the time.
Um, there is, um, when youembrace the totality of cooking,
which means starting by buyingstuff at the market.
Maybe even the slaughteringpart, maybe even the slow
bracing, the long cooking.
So it's just not the eating partthat is important.
The whole, uh, the whole ritualby, by, by eating where, where
(11:41):
cooking, where eating is oneaspect.
So, you know, there, there is somuch we can learn and look at
other cultures and learn.
How can we bring this thing homehere?
Francis (11:51):
Well, you know, let's, let's tell our listeners, they
may not all be familiar withyou, mark Marcus.
You were, you were bornEthiopian, and then adopted and
raised Swedish.
Came to New York and opened, um,a Scandinavian and then a
Japanese restaurant.
You've got quite a breadth ofculinary, uh, traditions and
experience.
How did you come to Africancuisine yourself?
Marcus (12:11):
Well, you know, being born in Ethiopia, I, I always, I
think, uh, felt, um, that whyisn't there?
Uh, enough knowledge about thiscuisine casino.
If I go to Barn Nobles or anygreat, not just Barn Noble, but
any great store bookstore, and Ifind 400 titles about Tuscany,
which 5,000 people lives inTuscany.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Mm-hmm.
Marcus (12:32):
And I find two titles about the continent of Africa,
or if any mm-hmm.
You know.
The Miseducation has to stopsomewhere.
You know, we have to also givetools for people to enjoy Africa
with a different sense thanjust, or aids and famine that
Africa needs help all the time.
Francis (12:49):
When we come back, we're gonna talk more with
Marcus Samuelson about his newand beautiful book about some of
the foods of Africa and, andsome foods, uh, of Africa that
you can find here in the UnitedStates.
You know, Marcus, we had openedin New Brunswick about 10 years
ago.
A Nigerian friend of ours, a guywe went to college with, opened,
an Ethiopian restaurant rightaround the corner from us.
Mm-hmm.
And it's called Maketa and it'swonderful.
Really a great place.
And, and we go there for lunch,often when we went have a
(13:11):
meeting outside restaurant whenwe, a meeting outside of our own
restaurant.
Yeah.
Um, One of the things that Ilove about Ethiopian cuisine is
the, in Jira.
Yeah.
Can you talk about bread andAfrican cuisine in general and
the place and in Jiraspecifically,
Marcus (13:24):
you know, uh, the staple dishes is probably what, what
changes.
Africa is both different inAfrica from each country to
country.
You know, you have K cuisineMorocco and something called pop
in South Africa, which is like apolenta.
And then you have fufu, which islike a mashed red root vegetable
puree.
And in Ethiopia, the staplebecomes bread, you know, which
(13:45):
is the only country that hasthat.
But it comes this teff, it'smade with a grain called teff,
one of the oldest grains in theworld.
And it's a sourdough pancakethat you sort of it takes, if
you make a traditional threedays to do the sour off starter,
and then, you cook it on oneside only.
That's how, it's why it's soporous and, and soft and, um,
(14:06):
becomes like almost like a thickpancake bag that you just sort
of pour out on the, on theskillet and it.
Probably every meal in Ethiopiafood.
Mm-hmm.
It's, uh, something that you,you know, you pick up the food
you stew with and, uh, it'svery, I mean, Ethiopian food, I
think the popularity of it isbecause one is very cheap.
(14:26):
Uh, you know, you can do ittogether as a group and don't
get killed by it.
You know, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Mm-hmm.
Of course.
And also,
Marcus (14:32):
I think the flavors are incredible because the spicy
berry spice.
The in jaraba then takes off theheat.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Mm-hmm.
With the
Marcus (14:40):
sour, it, it's already somebody thought about the
cuisine, like, uh, and, and whensomething takes off the heat,
which, um, so it's verysophisticated, although it might
not look like that on theoutset.
Francis (14:51):
Well now and, and Ethiopia of them.
'cause then you use the breadto, to pick up the food rather
than utensils.
It's actually your utensil.
Yes.
Marcus (14:57):
It's the
Francis (14:58):
utensil.
it's funny, when we go into the,into Makeda, they'll offer new
people.
They'll say, do you want a fork?
You know, I die with my friendOby, who's Nigerian.
But I, I think every time thatyou and I go and have lunch, I
think, you know.
We probably look veryunsophisticated to Ethiopians
who really know how to do thiswithout making a mess.
Do we?
Is there a technique?
Marcus (15:15):
Well, you know, I, I, I try to not take too many, too
big pieces, you know what Imean?
Uhhuh, you don't rip off toomuch bread and try to stuff
yourself.
you know, if you, if you staywith sort of, you can hold it,
uh, small, you know, not, notbigger than, uh, quarter size.
We call, uh, uh, ping pong size,both pockets at the time.
I think you're fine.
Uh, but, um.
(15:36):
I still get messy.
I'm from Ethiopia.
Francis (15:39):
You've made me feel a lot more secure about myself,
Marcus.
Thank you.
Well, when we come back afterthe news, we're gonna talk more
with Marcus Emon about his book.
We're gonna link you as to howto buy it on our website, You're
listening to the RestaurantGuys,
Mark (15:50):
Our guest today is
Francis (15:51):
Marcus Samuelson.
He is chef and co-owner ofAquavit and Culinary director of
Restaurant Ringo in New YorkCity.
He's also an author and a TVpersonality.
His new book is The Soul of ANew Cuisine and Discovery of The
Foods and Flavors of Africa.
Mark (16:04):
You know, Marcus, Francis and I had the, good fortune on
this past Monday night, do afundraiser for a local family.
Able to to raise about$40,000.
Oh wow.
Great.
For, for them to, take care oftheir child.
And they have a child who can'teat, any food and has a very
rare disorder.
Um, but you are the, uh, USspokesman for unicef.
(16:27):
Pretty big organization, prettybig responsibility.
What role?
Slash responsibility do youthink restaurants and, and our
community has in thesecharitable endeavors?
Marcus (16:37):
Well, I think it's a hard one'cause I think
restaurants is one of thecommunities that does the most
for charities, you know, and,um, yet restaurants, if you look
at them, they can be bigbusinesses, but, uh, most of
them are actually small.
Um.
mom and pop stores mm-hmm.
For versions of that.
So we, I think you look atpercentage what we do versus,
(16:59):
you know, corporate America.
I think we do a lot.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yeah.
Marcus (17:01):
But I think each restaurant should just look
into, I mean, you can doeverything right.
And both, you know, all of us,we get more requests than we
possibly can do.
So I, of course, I stick withthe ones that I stick with.
Unicef, you know, I was anorphanage myself.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, uh, so it's veryhard, close to the heart to
meet, but I feel UNICEF's workin Africa, what to do and all
over the world.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
I also
Marcus (17:22):
stick with CCAP, which is, you know, teaching inner
inner city kids, uh, aboutcooking and about our field, and
encourage them that when yougrow up, you can be a chef and
this is our field, or you can bea restaurant manager.
And, and it's, it's a, it's acraft and it's a regular job,
you know, because I don't think.
Francis (17:39):
CA does great stuff.
We had Richard Groman on ourshow.
Yeah, I
Marcus (17:42):
know Richard.
For me, it's an incredibleindividual and, and you can find
out,
Francis (17:45):
you can find out more about CCAP by going to, going to
restaurant guys radio.com.
Marcus (17:49):
so I think it's really up to each.
Team, each individual restaurantto say, Hey man, we, we gonna do
two things that we believe inyear, and then we maybe want to
do one or two, one-offs that we,we can also support.
Or like you guys just stepped upinto this world, obviously a
friend in your community and,and you should just look at what
you can do yourself.
But, uh, food is an incrediblething that
Speaker 4 (18:11):
through
Marcus (18:11):
food, people can see, uh, your passion and your
culture, and you can teachpeople where you're from and
what you believe in, which notevery business can really do.
Mm-hmm.
Some businesses just write thecheck, you know, and that's
that,
Francis (18:24):
you know, you know what's funny is I also think
that like, it's like you said,restaurant businesses,
especially in the east coast andthe West coast, and especially
in the fine dining end.
It's sort of the last bastion ofmom and pop business.
It's while there are corporaterestaurants, certainly the, the
best restaurants and even themost cherished casual
restaurants in most communitiesare these local restaurants.
And it's that you know theirown.
When, when a, a small businessis owned by a man or a woman, or
(18:46):
a couple, You, you feel more ofa responsibility to take part in
the community.
You know, it's a absolutely,it's a person to person thing.
But talk to us about unicef.
When I was a kid, when Mark andI were kids going out trick or
treating on Halloween, we hadour little orange UNICEF boxes
and collected our dimes andquarters and, and pooled them
all together.
And the teacher told us
Mark (19:05):
when we were kids, when we were kids, it was a lot of
pennies.
Yeah, a
Marcus (19:06):
lot of pennies.
Yeah.
But you know, that, that, thatis, uh, that's an incredible,
you know, the whole.
You know, Dan Kay and doing allthat, that started, I got
involved with UNICEF as a kidthe same way in Sweden, you
know?
Mm-hmm.
So it's a worldwide thing and ithappens, you know, with unicef I
do a lot of different things.
I've done everything fromcooking classes in Africa,
working with, uh, farmers inAfrica.
(19:27):
How can they take care of theirsoil?
How can they grow potatoes allyear round and stuff like that.
Both is showing a lot of youngboys how to cook.
'cause a lot of places inAfrica, people, men don't know
how to cook and men are nottaught, boys are not taught how
to cook.
So, and, and it can be somethingthat we do doing here now in New
York, called the Tap Projectwhere we really.
Just for a day, we're gonnacharge our customers$1 per glass
(19:48):
of water per regular tap water,and it's gonna go to UNICEF Fund
for finding clear water for alot of kids.
You know,
Francis (19:53):
you know, I think that, one of the other reasons that,
that we get involved and thatrestaurants get involved and
that people are also moreinclined to participate in a
restaurant.
Fundraiser is, it's that whenyou are eating, you know, and
when we're, nourishing ourselvesand realizing, especially in
our, in wealthy countries, thegreat abundance that we have and
the many choices that we have,and that our kids are nourished,
you know, at that moment I amprobably most likely to reach
(20:15):
into my, my wallet and pull out10 bucks for somebody.
If you ask me at that moment,you know, Hey, say, hey,
somebody's hungry somewhere.
Can we, can we get a little forthem?
I, I think, I think there's areal connection between.
Feeding people and eating.
Yeah.
And, and then feeding people whoneed, who need some help.
Yeah.
Mark (20:30):
But Mark Marcus, I think you've hit on something great
here in, in that each of usshould find something that's
close to your heart.
Find something that touches youas it's,
Marcus (20:39):
you know.
Mark (20:39):
Mm-hmm.
Marcus (20:40):
And, and, through cooking through.
Through our field, throughtaking kids in your community to
the local market and showing,you know, what's the different
between organic food and, and,and other food and just eating
it right could be the smallestthing.
It doesn't have to be made yourmade your stuff, you know?
'cause you, you guess what?
You did change those five 10Kids Day and insights on food,
(21:01):
uh, for that afternoon.
And probably they were gonna gohome to their parents and say,
Hey man, why are we, you know.
What can we get, what can we do?
You know,
Francis (21:07):
well talk to us then about careers through culinary
arts program where you're on theboard of directors, but the
program overall takes thousandsof at-risk kids and puts them in
a serious culinary program.
Marcus (21:16):
Yeah.
I felt like, uh, uh, with, withRichards program, you know, it's
not just a New York, you startedin New York, but it's not just
in New Yorkish.
It's all over America.
And Richard's done a great jobof.
Putting across America and youknow, when you're 16, 17, you
are at risk for a lot ofdifferent, especially in the
city kids.
And cooking is, is very muchlike being in a, in a positive
(21:37):
group, in a positive gang, so tospeak.
You know, you're in the kitchen,you're working with a little bit
older guys.
Uh, it's a high paced energy.
You gotta behave, you gotta showup on time.
And guess what?
You gotta be a good team player,otherwise you can't fit in the
kitchen, right?
Mm-hmm.
So it's, even if they don't stayin the kitchen, it's just a lot
of life skills.
So you can.
Bring with you and take with youto whatever job.
(21:59):
And you know, now, 10 years, LAlater we have successful
executive chefs, we haverestaurant managers, we're
executive pastry chefs.
So it does show that it was, itwas important.
And
Francis (22:09):
these are kids who, who might've gone the wrong way.
They didn't.
Oh God.
But for this, I mean,
Marcus (22:12):
who would've, I mean, like when, you know, look, you,
look, I know for myself when Iwas 16, 17, you know, if you, I
had the kitchen at that time andguys were 21, 22 years old.
I was looking up to them.
And uh, so I had somewhere togo, you know?
And for me it's a toss up atthat time.
I think, you know, it really is,you know,
Mark (22:29):
well, you know, and, and you talk about structure'cause
in, in a kitchen, and this is,you know, no, no pun intended,
but if you don't follow therules and the regulations in a
kitchen, you literally getburned.
You literally, yeah, yeah.
You know, turn to, turn to thewrong way, or, or don't follow
the policies, you, you're gonnaget hurt.
Francis (22:45):
I also think that you do a very valuable thing because
you know they're worth ofvocational and technical
schools, which there still areand they still do a great
service.
But those jobs are very at riskthese days and it's not like
there are the local art, youknow, as many local artisanal,
stable manufacturing jobs in theeconomy for people who may not
choose to go to a four yearcollege.
Yeah, yeah.
Which is not say that some chefsdon't go to a four year college,
(23:07):
but you know, cooking is now.
A tremendous profession and acornerstone of, of this economy.
Marcus (23:13):
No, absolutely.
Absolutely.
And, and, uh, I just think youlearn lots.
I mean, I've traveled all overthe world through food, and even
if you don't have thoseopportunities, you can just go.
If you're a American kid and youwork in a Japanese restaurant,
guess what?
You just learned about Japaneseculture, right?
Mm-hmm.
Next day you work in Italian.
Next year you work in an Italianrestaurant, you learn something
there, so you, your restaurantsalso gives you, or Mexican
(23:36):
restaurant, so it gives you thisallowance to learn about other
cultures.
So you probably wouldn't have ifyou, you know.
If you just work in anotherenvironment,
Francis (23:44):
you a, a tremendous way to learn about, African culture
and African cuisine in a waythat, uh, unless you've been
there, you, you couldn'tpossibly understand.
It is in Marcus Samuelson'sbeautiful book, the Soul of a
New Cuisine, a Discovery of theFoods and Flavors of Africa.
And when we come back, Marcus, Iwant to talk, uh, with you
about, about the food thatyou're cooking in your
restaurants in New York andwhat's going on in, in, in New
York these days.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
We'll, we'll be back in just amoment with Marcus Samuelson.
(24:05):
Uh, chef and owner of Aquavitand Ringo, you're listening to
the Restaurant Guys, Marcus, youwere born in Ethiopia, you were
raised in Sweden, you came toNew York, you award three stars
at Aquavit, the Scandinavianrestaurant in New York City.
Um, Ringo is great.
It's an American Japanese fusionrestaurant.
Um, when's the Africanrestaurant gonna open?
Marcus (24:24):
Uh, Hey man, I'm trying, I'm trying to open it so bad.
I would love to, uh, you knowwhat is, to open a restaurant,
you need a lot of, you know, alot of money.
In, in the right location.
And if you have the, have theright money, it, the location
comes easier right now.
But it's, it's, it's a, it's ahard thing.
Uh, I definitely want to do itone day.
I feel definitely, you know,writing the book was sort of
(24:44):
the, I felt that was the rightway to start it because I wanted
people to be aware that there isa Pan African cooking
possibility and so on.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, I also felt that, um.
When you have a restaurant, yougive people one experience, but
when you have a book experienceand people go home and cook it
(25:05):
at home, you bond in a differentway, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, restaurant might be oneway to do it, but this book form
is also another way to do it, tocommunicate with, people about
a, that I might not be familiarwith.
And, and it's sort of like, Ijust wanna invite people in and
be encouraged, uh, about this.
the foods of Africa really comesfrom many places.
(25:27):
It comes from India, Indonesia,Malaysia, and then it was, you
know, was traded or, or camethrough trading, came to Africa
very often.
And then you have obviously theconversation that had a lot of
impact on Africa, food toPortuguese, the French, and so
on.
And then you have the Africangiving influences to Sardinia,
Sicily, and, and Spain, and alsoBrazil, you know, and the
(25:50):
Caribbean islands.
And when you think about that,through trading, it came to
south the southern states ofAmerica.
You know, there's a reason whywe have okra and rice in South
Carolina and North Carolina.
Mm-hmm.
So when you look at it from thataspect, you know, it's, it's
essentially 2 billion peoplethat has affected.
You know, that has impacted ofthis.
Mm-hmm.
And when you, when you are inSenegal, you see the same food
(26:14):
in Brazil, in Baia when you arein, in Malaysia and you, you
taste the foods in Durban, it'sthe same flavors you know, I've
been lucky enough to been to allthe places.
So I've, I've been eaten inmarkets, in people's homes, but.
Not most people have.
So this is really my letter tothem saying, Hey man, there's a
link here and guess what?
(26:35):
You can be the benefit thereand, uh, go home and cook this
and, you know, talk to your kidsabout that.
Or your family.
Mark (26:40):
You know, we had, Floyd Cardos on the, on the show.
Yeah.
The chef at Table recentlytalking about, uh, the, some of
the Indian spices.
Yep.
What are, what are the, some ofthe spices that are integral to
this cuisine or some of thesecuisines?
Marcus (26:51):
Well, they're, they're so different, but you know,
they, it's very similar to theIndian, you know, you go to
island like where.
The Arabs and the Persians andthe Indians and the Africans
always met through trading ofspices or Marrakesh, right?
So the capital of trading.
But you know, in, in Sambar youhave fresh turmeric, you have
vanilla, you have clove, youhave cardman.
So essentially what would makecurries right, a different
(27:13):
original curries in, in, you goto Northern Africa, it's a
little more floral.
You know, you have a, a spiceblend that you find even all the
way tar satar.
That is the citrusy, more floralnote you have in Morocco.
You have that a main spice plantcalled elra note, which is
cumin, cardamon, cinnamon, uh, alittle bit milder chilies.
(27:37):
Uh, so then you go to theTunisia and you have hada, which
has a little bit more redchilies to sit on.
Chilies can be a wet past.
Uh, then you come to a placelike Segal where you have the
Scotch bonnet a lot, so it'sstronger chilies.
Francis (27:51):
Now, do you very
Mark (27:52):
Scotch bonnet is one of the spicy chilies in the world.
Yeah, very
Marcus (27:54):
spicy.
So, so there is a complete, Imean, the Arab food in general,
the Arab Que is not spicy food.
It's very floral and it's veryflavorful, but it's not spicy.
You know, the Portuguese was theone that brought chili to Africa
and, and in Mozambique, Angolaand in Brazil you find something
called per.
And that spice blend is reallychilies, red chilies, hai
(28:17):
chilies, red chilies withgarlic, lemon juice, olive oil,
parsley, cilantro.
That's used for everything.
Francis (28:24):
Now.
Now do you, do you think thatwith your book that your
adventurous cook at home can,work these, uh, spices into
their cooking?
Marcus (28:32):
Absolutely.
I mean, these are, these areflavors and foods that we
already doing without knowingit.
You know, you know, like theseare stew actually.
To do this book than most booksbecause it's.
It's family food.
It's not restaurant food that wesort of dumbing down for you to
cook.
Francis (28:47):
Right, right.
And it's not alman necessarily,it's things you can,
Marcus (28:50):
this is Stew.
I did Oxtail soup yesterday, uh,Al Stew yesterday, and these are
all regular food.
It's a vocabulary that we haveto get used to.
Right before we knew thedifference between sushi, STO
and so on ceviche, we were justlost in all of these words.
Right?
Speaker 4 (29:06):
Right.
Marcus (29:07):
But once we knew there's a major difference between
ceviche and sushi, right?
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Mm-hmm.
Marcus (29:11):
Nobody thinks it's different.
Nobody thinks it's a weird thingto order, right?
It's a matter of mood.
So I want this book to sort ofopen up that new vocabulary.
You
Mark (29:20):
may, you may need to go to the market and, and pick up
some, some new spices.
Yeah.
And some new ingredients.
Yeah.
Marcus (29:25):
And then you can like, wow.
Garma salad is actually this.
Oh, I Ra note gives me thisflavor.
Harissa gives me this.
Francis (29:32):
Well, let me ask you a question.
Now you've opened a couple ofdifferent restaurants and, now
you have a book introducingAfrican cuisine, and your first
restaurant was introducing, Imean, Scandinavian cuisine
wasn't exactly a staple.
No.
Nor is it today a staple of theNew York City restaurant scene.
Yeah.
It, what are the similaritiesbetween, I mean, you introduced
Americans to an unfamiliarcuisine at Aquavit Yeah.
And you're introducing'em to anunfamiliar cuisine here with
(29:53):
African food.
Are there similarities with,with how you bring a new cuisine
to, to people, to Americans?
Marcus (29:58):
I'm, uh, curious, uh, if you do something, well,
Americans are always open to tryit.
You know?
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Mm-hmm.
America,
Marcus (30:06):
Americans get a lot of shit for a lot of different
things, but you know what?
Americans are pretty damn opento try different foods and don't
really hold grudges regularly.
I mean, you know, I'm talkingthe average Joe.
Right.
He, if it's good, he'd be there.
He tried, he tried once.
If it's not good, he's notcoming back.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Right.
But I
Marcus (30:21):
think that's, that's pretty, he's pretty open.
I would say Americans in generalare more open trying food than
Europeans, you know?
Francis (30:27):
Yeah.
Well, I, I think it's because wedon't have as strong a tradition
ourselves.
Mm-hmm.
And, and, uh, I think thatsometimes, um, bites us a little
bit when we are, we're moreprone to fall for the processed
gimmick.
Yeah.
But it also leaves us more,
Marcus (30:40):
you know, also gives you that, Hey man, I don't care.
I'll go down there, try, give ita try.
Mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
Absolutely.
It.
It's an open mindedness that Ithink as a, as a chef that I've
embraced and, and, uh, peoplehave opened the doors from, they
allowed me to try differentthings.
You know, I'm not Japaneseeither, and we have Japanese
restaurants, so, you know, it's,um.
Uh, I think, um, people, if youserve great African Pan-African
(31:04):
food and people are, you didwell, people will come.
Francis (31:07):
Well, Marcus, um, you certainly have done well in your
restaurants.
I've eaten there and I love themand I hope that someday you'll
come down to New Brunswick anddine with us.
I will.
Thanks so much, Marcus.
Thank you very much
Speaker 4 (31:15):
guys.
Francis (31:15):
Thanks for having me on.
It's, it's been great to haveyou.
Uh, Marcus Samuelson is anamazing chef.
You can try his food in NewYork.
We'll link you to them throughour websites.
Uh, the book is called The Soulof a New Cuisine, the Discovery
of The Foods and Flavors ofAfrica.
We'll, back in just a moment.
(31:49):
We're talking with MarcusSamuelson.
You really should try hisrestaurants.
If you wanna try a broad rangeof cuisines, you can go for,
Scandinavian Aquavit, threestars in the New York Times.
We'll put a link up to ourwebsite, or Ringo is the
Japanese fusion restaurant.
A little more hip downtownplace.
But the book is, the book isbeautiful,
Mark (32:04):
it also gives a lot a description of a lot of the
spices and herbs that they'vebeen using over time for this
cuisine.
there are things that, that maynot be as familiar to us as
others.
I was going through the book.
And I saw, uh, one of theingredients that, that Marcus
likes to use in, in some ofthese cuisines is a, an
ingredient called F Greek.
Well, fenugreek, for those ofyou don't know, is a supplement
(32:27):
that's frequently given tobreastfeeding mothers when
they're just startingbreastfeeding.
Well, it helps produce milk forthe baby.
Yeah.
So a lot of, uh, a lot ofherbalists will tell you to eat
Fe Greek.
Yeah.
Something that we learned.
That when you eat F Greek, ohGod, where's this going?
Oh, it's nowhere bad.
Okay.
Nowhere bad.
When, when you eat F Greek, youbegin to smell a little bit like
(32:49):
maple syrup.
So some of these things have, sowhen you said your wife was
sweet, you meant some of thesethings have peculiar side
effects.
I'm like, uh, that smells likeobsession with a little side of
pancakes.
What?
What's up with that?
Marcus Marcus's having baconwith his wife.
I always wanted breakfast everytime I saw my wife for that
(33:10):
period of time.
I
Francis (33:10):
have to say, you know, it's funny that you did mention
with our interview with Marcus,the Floyd Cardos interview
mm-hmm.
In his book, which is talksabout Indian cuisine.
Amazing.
But.
This book was a real revelationto me.
I have seen pictures and I haveread something about, Asia
Indian Cuisine.
This book is a huge coffee tablebook, and it's beautiful.
It really pretty, it's just,it's really, uh, uh, I mean,
(33:32):
there are pictures and I, I findit very helpful when there's a
cookbook or a book about acuisine where it shows a picture
of the place and a picture ofthe food, because just
describing it to me, I don'tknow if I got it right or if I
got it wrong.
Mark (33:42):
Wait, and you get an understanding of the place and
the people and.
And, you know, Marcus saidsomething that, that really
touched home in a lot, most ofthese communities in Africa, a
grandmother doesn't have a ameal alone and a child, a child
doesn't have a meal alone.
You eat as a family.
Francis (33:56):
Well, mark and I are gonna go eat together at Ada
Ethiopian Restaurant in downtownNew Brunswick, one of our
favorites.
You can find out on our websiteas well.
I hope you've enjoyed the hourlistening to the restaurant.
Guys, I'm Francis Shock.
Mark
Mark (34:04):
Pascal,
Francis (34:05):
we are the restaurant guys, central Jersey 1450.
The time is 12 noon.
Morning, mark.
Hey Francis.
How are you?
I'm fine.
How are you this morning?
I'm doing great.
I'm glad I'm not doing thefirst, uh, little segment here
by myself.
Yeah.
Francis (00:48):
Got a little stuck on the, uh, nor Bay extension on
the way in today, but I made it.
Mark (00:51):
Yeah, sure did.
Um, just barely You're a littleruffled.
Francis (00:55):
Yeah.
I'm glad I made it today so thatyou didn't have to be the
restaurant guy on the show.
You know, last night I talked toa reporter from New Jersey
Monthly Magazine mm-hmm.
Who interviewed me about a veryinteresting topic.
Um, they wanted to hear ourtake, on downtowns in New
Jersey, on urban centers in NewJersey.
Mark (01:10):
Sure.
We both lived in New Brunswickfor a long time.
You even longer than I.
Uh, and we owned a, we've owneda restaurant in, in a downtown
urban area for 15 years.
Francis (01:19):
Well, I mean, that was the hook.
I mean, I think he, what hewanted, uh, to talk to.
And, you know, I live in JerseyCity.
I'm from Orange.
My dad was the Orange FireChief.
Mm-hmm.
I lived in New Brunswick.
You lived in New Brunswick.
But I think what he reallywanted to talk about was our
experience owning a business intown as a town changed.
I mean, we've been, had ourbusiness in town for 15 years.
We've been working in town for20 years.
And uh, it was very interesting.
(01:39):
I wound up talking to this guyand realizing just how much it
has changed.
Oh, oh, it's
Mark (01:43):
changed tremend.
New Brunswick a lot of ourlisteners have known New
Brunswick for a long time, butsome of you are, are relatively
recent to the area, but thetremendous, tremendous strides
that New Brunswick has made andchanges to the, to the
neighborhoods.
I, one of the things I tell mycustomers all the time where my
restaurant is right now, statetheaters a 3000.
Seat Event Theater.
(02:04):
George Street Playhouse, one ofthe best playhouses, regional
playhouses in, in the country.
Crossroads Theater, now is,operating as a, as a rental
concert venue, uh, concert venueor, or rental, 400 seats rental
event.
Um, if you told me I was gonnaopen a restaurant on this block
when I came to college in 1983.
I would've laughed in your face.
(02:25):
You said, I don't walk thereafter dark.
Yeah.
I forget it.
I don't, me and six of myfriends don't walk there after
dark.
Now you can't afford a condoacross the street.
Yeah.
And now a condo, condos acrossthe street are gone for over a
million dollars.
Francis (02:35):
But one of the things that we didn't talk about was
that, that we had seen over timeis how restaurants and bars and
liquor license establishmentsaffect a neighborhood.
Mm-hmm.
one of the things that that isvery interesting is, is New
Brunswick, like any city has.
different neighborhoods thathave different character to them
Local taverns in a residentialneighborhood, I think really can
add to a neighborhood.
(02:56):
But they've got, you've gottawatch them very closely and the
owners need to be veryresponsible.
Mark (03:00):
It depends on what kind of local tavern and there, I mean,
we've, again, you lived, uh, youknow, on Hartwell Street for a
number of years in,
Francis (03:07):
well, and that was near, that was near a local
tavern that had become a realcollege bar.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, hangout.
That was actually a place calledthe Plum Street Pub that was run
irresponsibly.
It was shut down by the city acouple times, or fined by the
city a couple times at the veryleast.
They used to dump, you know, 200drunk people on the street every
night at closing time, and itwas really disruptive at 3:00 AM
okay?
Mark (03:26):
Remember closing time in New Brunswick was 3:00 AM so by
the time you got everybody out,it's 3:30 AM
Francis (03:31):
Now there are a lot of other local bars who take great
pains to try and be a, a goodneighbor.
Like there's another place,little place called the Ellen,
which pub and a residentialcorner in.
They take great pains, uh,because they know that the
influx of people into aresidential neighborhood.
And if they become parkingissues, if they become too
popular, they can become avictim of their own success.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Mm-hmm.
Francis (03:49):
Because then they can impinge upon the neighbors.
But what I always thought wasvery interesting was in downtown
New Brunswick, where years agoI.
Pretty much no one lived.
Mm-hmm.
Um, the, the
Mark (04:01):
right, it was just when Francis says no one lived, it
was stores and, and shoptheaters and bars and
restaurants, theaters and barsand restaurants.
And, and there wasn't a, therewasn't really a populace that,
that lived and slept in thatarea of
Francis (04:13):
town.
And, and one of the ways andwhat that needed downtown
mm-hmm.
And what the, the powers that beand the, the local board of
directors realized, of the NewBrunswick City market, which is
the improvement districtdowntown, was that.
Just what was maybe not sohelpful to have a lot of people
clamoring for places to go inthe residential neighborhoods
where the bar was next to ahouse and the parking was on the
street and maybe blockingsomeone's driveway was exactly
(04:36):
what was needed downtown.
Mm-hmm.
And that sort of.
Led to the attitude thatfostered the restaurant
Renaissance in downtown NewBrunswick.
And well, what happened?
You put people on the streets atnight until late at night,
during the day, in theafternoon.
You made it a safe place to walkand a safe place to be.
And what do you have?
$800 million worth of luxuryhousing that's gone up in
(04:57):
downtown New Brunswick in lastI, it's
Mark (04:58):
actually a little bit more than that right now.
Francis (05:00):
I mean, plus you've got a brand new conference center
that's about to open, and NewBrunswick is known as a
restaurant mecca, and that thatincludes.
Fine restaurants and brew pubsand bars and taverns and, and a
place to walk around.
And that, to me, that speaks toa restaurant being a locus of
community.
But I think the point is that itdepends on the bar and it
depends on the neighborhood, buta restaurant and a bar, um, has
(05:21):
an impact on a community andthat can be a good impact and
that can be a bad impact.
Mark (05:25):
Well.
You know, there's a, there'sactually an article on the front
of the Times today in the, inthe food section.
Uh, it doesn't necessarily haveto be a restaurant or a bar to
have an impact on a communitylike that.
One of, one of the places that,that they're talking about in
the, in the Times today is theyogurt place in West Hollywood.
It's a yogurt place in WestHollywood.
And this place has become sopopular that cars are double
(05:47):
parking and sometimes the linesas much as an hour.
Cars are double parking for anhour to in order while they
stand online.
People are, there's this hugeinflux of people, and the people
who live around it are, areactually trying to get this
yogurt place shut down.
It's a yogurt place.
Okay?
We're no longer talking about abar.
We're no longer talking aboutthree 30 in the morning.
Francis (06:04):
It's called, it's called pink berries, right?
Ah-huh.
And you wanna know the irony ofit.
The owners, when they went toopen the yogurt place, had
originally tried to open a bar,but because the neighbors had
such concerns, uhhuh, theydidn't get their liquor license
right.
And so they changed ideas andopened the yogurt place.
Mark (06:20):
And the yogurt place is more popular probably than the
bar ever would've been.
Francis (06:24):
So the city council has now shortened their evening
hours and they're trying to workat a compromise, but they
literally have guards outside tocontrol the crowds, and they
have staff go and pick up thePinkberry cups from the
neighbor's lawn.
I can only wish for suchsuccess.
I can only wish for suchsuccess, maybe in the near
future.
But you know, I, I do think it'sinteresting because we were
talking about Jersey City.
We were talking about downtownNew Bruns.
(06:45):
We were talking about differentdowntowns.
And in this day and age, um,look, there aren't many factory
towns anymore.
And so, um,
Mark (06:53):
factory cities
Francis (06:54):
really, or factory cities that, or, or factory
towns.
There aren't places where, youknow, at least in New Jersey
where, um, the economy is drivenby manufacturing and many, what
do all the revitalized cities inNew Jersey have in common?
I.
Restaurants, what is Newark?
Trying desperately to get?
Mm-hmm.
More restaurants.
Better restaurants, because itbrings people out and provides a
(07:14):
center of community there have
Mark (07:16):
been a number of cities who've contact us to, say,
listen, do you want to come andopen a restaurant in our city?
We'll, we'll help you do that.
Francis (07:22):
There was actually one city that, that they brought us
in.
They showed us around andthey're like, okay, we'll, we'll
condemn any building you wantand put a restaurant in it.
And we were like, no, none.
None of these, none of these,this city calls in a few years.
When we come back, we're gonnabe talking with Marcus
Samuelson, a chef and author,who you've certainly heard of.
And, uh, he's gonna join us totalk about his new book in just
a moment.
You're listening to theRestaurant Guys, Hello everybody
and welcome back.
You're listening to theRestaurant Guys, mark and
(07:43):
Francis of Stage Left, andCatherine Lombardi.
Restaurants in downtown, newBrunswick, New Jersey.
And our guest today is MarcusSamuelson.
Marcus is chef and co-owner ofAquavit, new York's Premier
Scandinavian restaurant.
And culinary director of Ringo,an American Japanese fusion
restaurant.
He was the youngest chef ever toreceive three stars from the New
York Times, and he was namedBest Chef of New York City by
the James Beard Foundation in1999.
(08:05):
He joins us today, to discusshis new book, the Soul of A New
Cuisine, A Discovery of TheFoods and Flavors of Africa.
Mark (08:11):
Chef Marcus Samuelson, welcome to the show.
Marcus (08:14):
Thank you very much.
Thank you for having me.
Francis (08:16):
Oh, it's a pleasure to have you.
I've actually eaten your food.
I was at Ringo actually.
We met several years ago throughAnthony Gilio.
At your place?
Ringo, when we had a tremendousmeal.
Thank this new book, the Soul ofA New Cuisine.
Let's start with the title.
I mean, Africa's not a newplace.
It's a very old, continent witha lot of different cultures and,
and a lot of ancient cuisine.
(08:37):
Why did you call it the soul ofa new cuisine?
Marcus (08:39):
Well, I mean, I think it is, not new for, people from the
continent, but the newnessreally becomes when you, as we
here as American, start to useAfrican ingredients and maybe we
pair it with our own favoritedishes that we already have.
So maybe you do an African side,maybe you do a, an African rub
(09:00):
on your next chicken dish, sotherefore it becomes a new meal,
you know, new creation.
And the other thing thathappened that I want to do with
the book is also fellowAfricans.
Don't look at each other'scountry and borrow from each
other.
You know, uh, a German familymight cook Italian food three
days a week.
Uh, because Germans, theyvacation in Italy a lot and so
(09:23):
on, right.
And trade and so on with Italy.
Uh, a Moroccan family is notcooking Ethiopian meal two days
a week.
Ethiopian family is not lookingto and trying to cook a Nigerian
meal two days a week.
So, you know, it's, it's, I'malso.
Talking to fellow Africans aboutwhat's going on, about food in
other fellow African countries.
Mark (09:43):
So the countries are more isolated from one another.
Marcus (09:45):
Well, I wouldn't say even, not geographically, but
Yeah, exactly.
So much of this has to do withobviously large middle class
tourism.
Mm-hmm.
Vacationing, how do we knowabout food?
You know, how do we know aboutItalian food?
Yes.
Through history, but also bygoing to Italy.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Mm-hmm.
Marcus (10:02):
And how do we know about French food by traveling,
visiting there.
So.
It's not new at all, but it's,it's a part of the world that
we, for whatever reason, uh,haven't acknowledged and brought
in in the food family the way wehave, acknowledged and brought
in, uh, the rest of the worldyet doesn't mean it won't
happen.
Just, it took us a long time toembrace the whole Asian, uh,
(10:24):
community and it took a longtime.
To embrace the Latin in Americancommunity.
it didn't mean that that was newfood when, when Douglas brought
it to, to us, you know?
Mark (10:32):
Well, one of the things you talk about in, in the book,
and, I think a lot of people whoare in the, in the food business
realizes how differently peoplein the rest of the world eat
from Americans, although a lotof them are getting closer and
closer to the way we eat,probably, unfortunately.
But how really different it isin Africa and how, how plate
composition and.
In African food is verydifferent than it is here in
(10:54):
America.
Can you, can you just talk alittle bit about that?
Marcus (10:56):
Well, I mean, you know, we, and I'll say that we don't
have it figured out here either.
You know, I think, uh, the waypeople eat in Africa is very
encouraging.
You know, people have much lesseconomy, but they eat probably
better than we do.
Yeah.
They know organic withoutthinking about it.
They always eat together, youknow, there's no grandmother or
there's no child eating bythemselves.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
You know, there's
Marcus (11:18):
people eating together all the time.
Um, there is, um, when youembrace the totality of cooking,
which means starting by buyingstuff at the market.
Maybe even the slaughteringpart, maybe even the slow
bracing, the long cooking.
So it's just not the eating partthat is important.
The whole, uh, the whole ritualby, by, by eating where, where
(11:41):
cooking, where eating is oneaspect.
So, you know, there, there is somuch we can learn and look at
other cultures and learn.
How can we bring this thing homehere?
Francis (11:51):
Well, you know, let's, let's tell our listeners, they
may not all be familiar withyou, mark Marcus.
You were, you were bornEthiopian, and then adopted and
raised Swedish.
Came to New York and opened, um,a Scandinavian and then a
Japanese restaurant.
You've got quite a breadth ofculinary, uh, traditions and
experience.
How did you come to Africancuisine yourself?
Marcus (12:11):
Well, you know, being born in Ethiopia, I, I always, I
think, uh, felt, um, that whyisn't there?
Uh, enough knowledge about thiscuisine casino.
If I go to Barn Nobles or anygreat, not just Barn Noble, but
any great store bookstore, and Ifind 400 titles about Tuscany,
which 5,000 people lives inTuscany.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Mm-hmm.
Marcus (12:32):
And I find two titles about the continent of Africa,
or if any mm-hmm.
You know.
The Miseducation has to stopsomewhere.
You know, we have to also givetools for people to enjoy Africa
with a different sense thanjust, or aids and famine that
Africa needs help all the time.
Francis (12:49):
When we come back, we're gonna talk more with
Marcus Samuelson about his newand beautiful book about some of
the foods of Africa and, andsome foods, uh, of Africa that
you can find here in the UnitedStates.
You know, Marcus, we had openedin New Brunswick about 10 years
ago.
A Nigerian friend of ours, a guywe went to college with, opened,
an Ethiopian restaurant rightaround the corner from us.
Mm-hmm.
And it's called Maketa and it'swonderful.
Really a great place.
And, and we go there for lunch,often when we went have a
(13:11):
meeting outside restaurant whenwe, a meeting outside of our own
restaurant.
Yeah.
Um, One of the things that Ilove about Ethiopian cuisine is
the, in Jira.
Yeah.
Can you talk about bread andAfrican cuisine in general and
the place and in Jiraspecifically,
Marcus (13:24):
you know, uh, the staple dishes is probably what, what
changes.
Africa is both different inAfrica from each country to
country.
You know, you have K cuisineMorocco and something called pop
in South Africa, which is like apolenta.
And then you have fufu, which islike a mashed red root vegetable
puree.
And in Ethiopia, the staplebecomes bread, you know, which
(13:45):
is the only country that hasthat.
But it comes this teff, it'smade with a grain called teff,
one of the oldest grains in theworld.
And it's a sourdough pancakethat you sort of it takes, if
you make a traditional threedays to do the sour off starter,
and then, you cook it on oneside only.
That's how, it's why it's soporous and, and soft and, um,
(14:06):
becomes like almost like a thickpancake bag that you just sort
of pour out on the, on theskillet and it.
Probably every meal in Ethiopiafood.
Mm-hmm.
It's, uh, something that you,you know, you pick up the food
you stew with and, uh, it'svery, I mean, Ethiopian food, I
think the popularity of it isbecause one is very cheap.
(14:26):
Uh, you know, you can do ittogether as a group and don't
get killed by it.
You know, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Mm-hmm.
Of course.
And also,
Marcus (14:32):
I think the flavors are incredible because the spicy
berry spice.
The in jaraba then takes off theheat.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Mm-hmm.
With the
Marcus (14:40):
sour, it, it's already somebody thought about the
cuisine, like, uh, and, and whensomething takes off the heat,
which, um, so it's verysophisticated, although it might
not look like that on theoutset.
Francis (14:51):
Well now and, and Ethiopia of them.
'cause then you use the breadto, to pick up the food rather
than utensils.
It's actually your utensil.
Yes.
Marcus (14:57):
It's the
Francis (14:58):
utensil.
it's funny, when we go into the,into Makeda, they'll offer new
people.
They'll say, do you want a fork?
You know, I die with my friendOby, who's Nigerian.
But I, I think every time thatyou and I go and have lunch, I
think, you know.
We probably look veryunsophisticated to Ethiopians
who really know how to do thiswithout making a mess.
Do we?
Is there a technique?
Marcus (15:15):
Well, you know, I, I, I try to not take too many, too
big pieces, you know what Imean?
Uhhuh, you don't rip off toomuch bread and try to stuff
yourself.
you know, if you, if you staywith sort of, you can hold it,
uh, small, you know, not, notbigger than, uh, quarter size.
We call, uh, uh, ping pong size,both pockets at the time.
I think you're fine.
Uh, but, um.
(15:36):
I still get messy.
I'm from Ethiopia.
Francis (15:39):
You've made me feel a lot more secure about myself,
Marcus.
Thank you.
Well, when we come back afterthe news, we're gonna talk more
with Marcus Emon about his book.
We're gonna link you as to howto buy it on our website, You're
listening to the RestaurantGuys,
Mark (15:50):
Our guest today is
Francis (15:51):
Marcus Samuelson.
He is chef and co-owner ofAquavit and Culinary director of
Restaurant Ringo in New YorkCity.
He's also an author and a TVpersonality.
His new book is The Soul of ANew Cuisine and Discovery of The
Foods and Flavors of Africa.
Mark (16:04):
You know, Marcus, Francis and I had the, good fortune on
this past Monday night, do afundraiser for a local family.
Able to to raise about$40,000.
Oh wow.
Great.
For, for them to, take care oftheir child.
And they have a child who can'teat, any food and has a very
rare disorder.
Um, but you are the, uh, USspokesman for unicef.
(16:27):
Pretty big organization, prettybig responsibility.
What role?
Slash responsibility do youthink restaurants and, and our
community has in thesecharitable endeavors?
Marcus (16:37):
Well, I think it's a hard one'cause I think
restaurants is one of thecommunities that does the most
for charities, you know, and,um, yet restaurants, if you look
at them, they can be bigbusinesses, but, uh, most of
them are actually small.
Um.
mom and pop stores mm-hmm.
For versions of that.
So we, I think you look atpercentage what we do versus,
(16:59):
you know, corporate America.
I think we do a lot.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yeah.
Marcus (17:01):
But I think each restaurant should just look
into, I mean, you can doeverything right.
And both, you know, all of us,we get more requests than we
possibly can do.
So I, of course, I stick withthe ones that I stick with.
Unicef, you know, I was anorphanage myself.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, uh, so it's veryhard, close to the heart to
meet, but I feel UNICEF's workin Africa, what to do and all
over the world.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
I also
Marcus (17:22):
stick with CCAP, which is, you know, teaching inner
inner city kids, uh, aboutcooking and about our field, and
encourage them that when yougrow up, you can be a chef and
this is our field, or you can bea restaurant manager.
And, and it's, it's a, it's acraft and it's a regular job,
you know, because I don't think.
Francis (17:39):
CA does great stuff.
We had Richard Groman on ourshow.
Yeah, I
Marcus (17:42):
know Richard.
For me, it's an incredibleindividual and, and you can find
out,
Francis (17:45):
you can find out more about CCAP by going to, going to
restaurant guys radio.com.
Marcus (17:49):
so I think it's really up to each.
Team, each individual restaurantto say, Hey man, we, we gonna do
two things that we believe inyear, and then we maybe want to
do one or two, one-offs that we,we can also support.
Or like you guys just stepped upinto this world, obviously a
friend in your community and,and you should just look at what
you can do yourself.
But, uh, food is an incrediblething that
Speaker 4 (18:11):
through
Marcus (18:11):
food, people can see, uh, your passion and your
culture, and you can teachpeople where you're from and
what you believe in, which notevery business can really do.
Mm-hmm.
Some businesses just write thecheck, you know, and that's
that,
Francis (18:24):
you know, you know what's funny is I also think
that like, it's like you said,restaurant businesses,
especially in the east coast andthe West coast, and especially
in the fine dining end.
It's sort of the last bastion ofmom and pop business.
It's while there are corporaterestaurants, certainly the, the
best restaurants and even themost cherished casual
restaurants in most communitiesare these local restaurants.
And it's that you know theirown.
When, when a, a small businessis owned by a man or a woman, or
(18:46):
a couple, You, you feel more ofa responsibility to take part in
the community.
You know, it's a absolutely,it's a person to person thing.
But talk to us about unicef.
When I was a kid, when Mark andI were kids going out trick or
treating on Halloween, we hadour little orange UNICEF boxes
and collected our dimes andquarters and, and pooled them
all together.
And the teacher told us
Mark (19:05):
when we were kids, when we were kids, it was a lot of
pennies.
Yeah, a
Marcus (19:06):
lot of pennies.
Yeah.
But you know, that, that, thatis, uh, that's an incredible,
you know, the whole.
You know, Dan Kay and doing allthat, that started, I got
involved with UNICEF as a kidthe same way in Sweden, you
know?
Mm-hmm.
So it's a worldwide thing and ithappens, you know, with unicef I
do a lot of different things.
I've done everything fromcooking classes in Africa,
working with, uh, farmers inAfrica.
(19:27):
How can they take care of theirsoil?
How can they grow potatoes allyear round and stuff like that.
Both is showing a lot of youngboys how to cook.
'cause a lot of places inAfrica, people, men don't know
how to cook and men are nottaught, boys are not taught how
to cook.
So, and, and it can be somethingthat we do doing here now in New
York, called the Tap Projectwhere we really.
Just for a day, we're gonnacharge our customers$1 per glass
(19:48):
of water per regular tap water,and it's gonna go to UNICEF Fund
for finding clear water for alot of kids.
You know,
Francis (19:53):
you know, I think that, one of the other reasons that,
that we get involved and thatrestaurants get involved and
that people are also moreinclined to participate in a
restaurant.
Fundraiser is, it's that whenyou are eating, you know, and
when we're, nourishing ourselvesand realizing, especially in
our, in wealthy countries, thegreat abundance that we have and
the many choices that we have,and that our kids are nourished,
you know, at that moment I amprobably most likely to reach
(20:15):
into my, my wallet and pull out10 bucks for somebody.
If you ask me at that moment,you know, Hey, say, hey,
somebody's hungry somewhere.
Can we, can we get a little forthem?
I, I think, I think there's areal connection between.
Feeding people and eating.
Yeah.
And, and then feeding people whoneed, who need some help.
Yeah.
Mark (20:30):
But Mark Marcus, I think you've hit on something great
here in, in that each of usshould find something that's
close to your heart.
Find something that touches youas it's,
Marcus (20:39):
you know.
Mark (20:39):
Mm-hmm.
Marcus (20:40):
And, and, through cooking through.
Through our field, throughtaking kids in your community to
the local market and showing,you know, what's the different
between organic food and, and,and other food and just eating
it right could be the smallestthing.
It doesn't have to be made yourmade your stuff, you know?
'cause you, you guess what?
You did change those five 10Kids Day and insights on food,
(21:01):
uh, for that afternoon.
And probably they were gonna gohome to their parents and say,
Hey man, why are we, you know.
What can we get, what can we do?
You know,
Francis (21:07):
well talk to us then about careers through culinary
arts program where you're on theboard of directors, but the
program overall takes thousandsof at-risk kids and puts them in
a serious culinary program.
Marcus (21:16):
Yeah.
I felt like, uh, uh, with, withRichards program, you know, it's
not just a New York, you startedin New York, but it's not just
in New Yorkish.
It's all over America.
And Richard's done a great jobof.
Putting across America and youknow, when you're 16, 17, you
are at risk for a lot ofdifferent, especially in the
city kids.
And cooking is, is very muchlike being in a, in a positive
(21:37):
group, in a positive gang, so tospeak.
You know, you're in the kitchen,you're working with a little bit
older guys.
Uh, it's a high paced energy.
You gotta behave, you gotta showup on time.
And guess what?
You gotta be a good team player,otherwise you can't fit in the
kitchen, right?
Mm-hmm.
So it's, even if they don't stayin the kitchen, it's just a lot
of life skills.
So you can.
Bring with you and take with youto whatever job.
(21:59):
And you know, now, 10 years, LAlater we have successful
executive chefs, we haverestaurant managers, we're
executive pastry chefs.
So it does show that it was, itwas important.
And
Francis (22:09):
these are kids who, who might've gone the wrong way.
They didn't.
Oh God.
But for this, I mean,
Marcus (22:12):
who would've, I mean, like when, you know, look, you,
look, I know for myself when Iwas 16, 17, you know, if you, I
had the kitchen at that time andguys were 21, 22 years old.
I was looking up to them.
And uh, so I had somewhere togo, you know?
And for me it's a toss up atthat time.
I think, you know, it really is,you know,
Mark (22:29):
well, you know, and, and you talk about structure'cause
in, in a kitchen, and this is,you know, no, no pun intended,
but if you don't follow therules and the regulations in a
kitchen, you literally getburned.
You literally, yeah, yeah.
You know, turn to, turn to thewrong way, or, or don't follow
the policies, you, you're gonnaget hurt.
Francis (22:45):
I also think that you do a very valuable thing because
you know they're worth ofvocational and technical
schools, which there still areand they still do a great
service.
But those jobs are very at riskthese days and it's not like
there are the local art, youknow, as many local artisanal,
stable manufacturing jobs in theeconomy for people who may not
choose to go to a four yearcollege.
Yeah, yeah.
Which is not say that some chefsdon't go to a four year college,
(23:07):
but you know, cooking is now.
A tremendous profession and acornerstone of, of this economy.
Marcus (23:13):
No, absolutely.
Absolutely.
And, and, uh, I just think youlearn lots.
I mean, I've traveled all overthe world through food, and even
if you don't have thoseopportunities, you can just go.
If you're a American kid and youwork in a Japanese restaurant,
guess what?
You just learned about Japaneseculture, right?
Mm-hmm.
Next day you work in Italian.
Next year you work in an Italianrestaurant, you learn something
there, so you, your restaurantsalso gives you, or Mexican
(23:36):
restaurant, so it gives you thisallowance to learn about other
cultures.
So you probably wouldn't have ifyou, you know.
If you just work in anotherenvironment,
Francis (23:44):
you a, a tremendous way to learn about, African culture
and African cuisine in a waythat, uh, unless you've been
there, you, you couldn'tpossibly understand.
It is in Marcus Samuelson'sbeautiful book, the Soul of a
New Cuisine, a Discovery of theFoods and Flavors of Africa.
And when we come back, Marcus, Iwant to talk, uh, with you
about, about the food thatyou're cooking in your
restaurants in New York andwhat's going on in, in, in New
York these days.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
We'll, we'll be back in just amoment with Marcus Samuelson.
(24:05):
Uh, chef and owner of Aquavitand Ringo, you're listening to
the Restaurant Guys, Marcus, youwere born in Ethiopia, you were
raised in Sweden, you came toNew York, you award three stars
at Aquavit, the Scandinavianrestaurant in New York City.
Um, Ringo is great.
It's an American Japanese fusionrestaurant.
Um, when's the Africanrestaurant gonna open?
Marcus (24:24):
Uh, Hey man, I'm trying, I'm trying to open it so bad.
I would love to, uh, you knowwhat is, to open a restaurant,
you need a lot of, you know, alot of money.
In, in the right location.
And if you have the, have theright money, it, the location
comes easier right now.
But it's, it's, it's a, it's ahard thing.
Uh, I definitely want to do itone day.
I feel definitely, you know,writing the book was sort of
(24:44):
the, I felt that was the rightway to start it because I wanted
people to be aware that there isa Pan African cooking
possibility and so on.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, I also felt that, um.
When you have a restaurant, yougive people one experience, but
when you have a book experienceand people go home and cook it
(25:05):
at home, you bond in a differentway, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, restaurant might be oneway to do it, but this book form
is also another way to do it, tocommunicate with, people about
a, that I might not be familiarwith.
And, and it's sort of like, Ijust wanna invite people in and
be encouraged, uh, about this.
the foods of Africa really comesfrom many places.
(25:27):
It comes from India, Indonesia,Malaysia, and then it was, you
know, was traded or, or camethrough trading, came to Africa
very often.
And then you have obviously theconversation that had a lot of
impact on Africa, food toPortuguese, the French, and so
on.
And then you have the Africangiving influences to Sardinia,
Sicily, and, and Spain, and alsoBrazil, you know, and the
(25:50):
Caribbean islands.
And when you think about that,through trading, it came to
south the southern states ofAmerica.
You know, there's a reason whywe have okra and rice in South
Carolina and North Carolina.
Mm-hmm.
So when you look at it from thataspect, you know, it's, it's
essentially 2 billion peoplethat has affected.
You know, that has impacted ofthis.
Mm-hmm.
And when you, when you are inSenegal, you see the same food
(26:14):
in Brazil, in Baia when you arein, in Malaysia and you, you
taste the foods in Durban, it'sthe same flavors you know, I've
been lucky enough to been to allthe places.
So I've, I've been eaten inmarkets, in people's homes, but.
Not most people have.
So this is really my letter tothem saying, Hey man, there's a
link here and guess what?
(26:35):
You can be the benefit thereand, uh, go home and cook this
and, you know, talk to your kidsabout that.
Or your family.
Mark (26:40):
You know, we had, Floyd Cardos on the, on the show.
Yeah.
The chef at Table recentlytalking about, uh, the, some of
the Indian spices.
Yep.
What are, what are the, some ofthe spices that are integral to
this cuisine or some of thesecuisines?
Marcus (26:51):
Well, they're, they're so different, but you know,
they, it's very similar to theIndian, you know, you go to
island like where.
The Arabs and the Persians andthe Indians and the Africans
always met through trading ofspices or Marrakesh, right?
So the capital of trading.
But you know, in, in Sambar youhave fresh turmeric, you have
vanilla, you have clove, youhave cardman.
So essentially what would makecurries right, a different
(27:13):
original curries in, in, you goto Northern Africa, it's a
little more floral.
You know, you have a, a spiceblend that you find even all the
way tar satar.
That is the citrusy, more floralnote you have in Morocco.
You have that a main spice plantcalled elra note, which is
cumin, cardamon, cinnamon, uh, alittle bit milder chilies.
(27:37):
Uh, so then you go to theTunisia and you have hada, which
has a little bit more redchilies to sit on.
Chilies can be a wet past.
Uh, then you come to a placelike Segal where you have the
Scotch bonnet a lot, so it'sstronger chilies.
Francis (27:51):
Now, do you very
Mark (27:52):
Scotch bonnet is one of the spicy chilies in the world.
Yeah, very
Marcus (27:54):
spicy.
So, so there is a complete, Imean, the Arab food in general,
the Arab Que is not spicy food.
It's very floral and it's veryflavorful, but it's not spicy.
You know, the Portuguese was theone that brought chili to Africa
and, and in Mozambique, Angolaand in Brazil you find something
called per.
And that spice blend is reallychilies, red chilies, hai
(28:17):
chilies, red chilies withgarlic, lemon juice, olive oil,
parsley, cilantro.
That's used for everything.
Francis (28:24):
Now.
Now do you, do you think thatwith your book that your
adventurous cook at home can,work these, uh, spices into
their cooking?
Marcus (28:32):
Absolutely.
I mean, these are, these areflavors and foods that we
already doing without knowingit.
You know, you know, like theseare stew actually.
To do this book than most booksbecause it's.
It's family food.
It's not restaurant food that wesort of dumbing down for you to
cook.
Francis (28:47):
Right, right.
And it's not alman necessarily,it's things you can,
Marcus (28:50):
this is Stew.
I did Oxtail soup yesterday, uh,Al Stew yesterday, and these are
all regular food.
It's a vocabulary that we haveto get used to.
Right before we knew thedifference between sushi, STO
and so on ceviche, we were justlost in all of these words.
Right?
Speaker 4 (29:06):
Right.
Marcus (29:07):
But once we knew there's a major difference between
ceviche and sushi, right?
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Mm-hmm.
Marcus (29:11):
Nobody thinks it's different.
Nobody thinks it's a weird thingto order, right?
It's a matter of mood.
So I want this book to sort ofopen up that new vocabulary.
You
Mark (29:20):
may, you may need to go to the market and, and pick up
some, some new spices.
Yeah.
And some new ingredients.
Yeah.
Marcus (29:25):
And then you can like, wow.
Garma salad is actually this.
Oh, I Ra note gives me thisflavor.
Harissa gives me this.
Francis (29:32):
Well, let me ask you a question.
Now you've opened a couple ofdifferent restaurants and, now
you have a book introducingAfrican cuisine, and your first
restaurant was introducing, Imean, Scandinavian cuisine
wasn't exactly a staple.
No.
Nor is it today a staple of theNew York City restaurant scene.
Yeah.
It, what are the similaritiesbetween, I mean, you introduced
Americans to an unfamiliarcuisine at Aquavit Yeah.
And you're introducing'em to anunfamiliar cuisine here with
(29:53):
African food.
Are there similarities with,with how you bring a new cuisine
to, to people, to Americans?
Marcus (29:58):
I'm, uh, curious, uh, if you do something, well,
Americans are always open to tryit.
You know?
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Mm-hmm.
America,
Marcus (30:06):
Americans get a lot of shit for a lot of different
things, but you know what?
Americans are pretty damn opento try different foods and don't
really hold grudges regularly.
I mean, you know, I'm talkingthe average Joe.
Right.
He, if it's good, he'd be there.
He tried, he tried once.
If it's not good, he's notcoming back.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
Right.
But I
Marcus (30:21):
think that's, that's pretty, he's pretty open.
I would say Americans in generalare more open trying food than
Europeans, you know?
Francis (30:27):
Yeah.
Well, I, I think it's because wedon't have as strong a tradition
ourselves.
Mm-hmm.
And, and, uh, I think thatsometimes, um, bites us a little
bit when we are, we're moreprone to fall for the processed
gimmick.
Yeah.
But it also leaves us more,
Marcus (30:40):
you know, also gives you that, Hey man, I don't care.
I'll go down there, try, give ita try.
Mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
Absolutely.
It.
It's an open mindedness that Ithink as a, as a chef that I've
embraced and, and, uh, peoplehave opened the doors from, they
allowed me to try differentthings.
You know, I'm not Japaneseeither, and we have Japanese
restaurants, so, you know, it's,um.
Uh, I think, um, people, if youserve great African Pan-African
(31:04):
food and people are, you didwell, people will come.
Francis (31:07):
Well, Marcus, um, you certainly have done well in your
restaurants.
I've eaten there and I love themand I hope that someday you'll
come down to New Brunswick anddine with us.
I will.
Thanks so much, Marcus.
Thank you very much
Speaker 4 (31:15):
guys.
Francis (31:15):
Thanks for having me on.
It's, it's been great to haveyou.
Uh, Marcus Samuelson is anamazing chef.
You can try his food in NewYork.
We'll link you to them throughour websites.
Uh, the book is called The Soulof a New Cuisine, the Discovery
of The Foods and Flavors ofAfrica.
We'll, back in just a moment.
(31:49):
We're talking with MarcusSamuelson.
You really should try hisrestaurants.
If you wanna try a broad rangeof cuisines, you can go for,
Scandinavian Aquavit, threestars in the New York Times.
We'll put a link up to ourwebsite, or Ringo is the
Japanese fusion restaurant.
A little more hip downtownplace.
But the book is, the book isbeautiful,
Mark (32:04):
it also gives a lot a description of a lot of the
spices and herbs that they'vebeen using over time for this
cuisine.
there are things that, that maynot be as familiar to us as
others.
I was going through the book.
And I saw, uh, one of theingredients that, that Marcus
likes to use in, in some ofthese cuisines is a, an
ingredient called F Greek.
Well, fenugreek, for those ofyou don't know, is a supplement
(32:27):
that's frequently given tobreastfeeding mothers when
they're just startingbreastfeeding.
Well, it helps produce milk forthe baby.
Yeah.
So a lot of, uh, a lot ofherbalists will tell you to eat
Fe Greek.
Yeah.
Something that we learned.
That when you eat F Greek, ohGod, where's this going?
Oh, it's nowhere bad.
Okay.
Nowhere bad.
When, when you eat F Greek, youbegin to smell a little bit like
(32:49):
maple syrup.
So some of these things have, sowhen you said your wife was
sweet, you meant some of thesethings have peculiar side
effects.
I'm like, uh, that smells likeobsession with a little side of
pancakes.
What?
What's up with that?
Marcus Marcus's having baconwith his wife.
I always wanted breakfast everytime I saw my wife for that
(33:10):
period of time.
I
Francis (33:10):
have to say, you know, it's funny that you did mention
with our interview with Marcus,the Floyd Cardos interview
mm-hmm.
In his book, which is talksabout Indian cuisine.
Amazing.
But.
This book was a real revelationto me.
I have seen pictures and I haveread something about, Asia
Indian Cuisine.
This book is a huge coffee tablebook, and it's beautiful.
It really pretty, it's just,it's really, uh, uh, I mean,
(33:32):
there are pictures and I, I findit very helpful when there's a
cookbook or a book about acuisine where it shows a picture
of the place and a picture ofthe food, because just
describing it to me, I don'tknow if I got it right or if I
got it wrong.
Mark (33:42):
Wait, and you get an understanding of the place and
the people and.
And, you know, Marcus saidsomething that, that really
touched home in a lot, most ofthese communities in Africa, a
grandmother doesn't have a ameal alone and a child, a child
doesn't have a meal alone.
You eat as a family.
Francis (33:56):
Well, mark and I are gonna go eat together at Ada
Ethiopian Restaurant in downtownNew Brunswick, one of our
favorites.
You can find out on our websiteas well.
I hope you've enjoyed the hourlistening to the restaurant.
Guys, I'm Francis Shock.
Mark
Mark (34:04):
Pascal,
Francis (34:05):
we are the restaurant guys, central Jersey 1450.
The time is 12 noon.
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