October 7, 2025 • 53 mins
The Banter
The Guys share some of the cool cocktail experiences they had on their safari the night before.
The Conversation
The Restaurant Guys welcome Rajesh Bhardwaj, operator of the first Michelin-starred Indian restaurant in the U.S. Rajesh talks about cultivating his vision, curating a team to execute it and how he continues to change the landscape of Indian cuisine in the United States.
The Inside Track
The Guys listen as Rajesh shares his vision of creating the unique experience at Junoon.
“ We are fusion, but not of tradition or of flavors. We are fusion of technique,”
Rajesh Bhardwaj on The Restaurant Guys Podcast 2025
Bio
Rajesh Bhardwaj is the founder and CEO of Junoon, the acclaimed Michelin-starred Indian restaurant in New York City. A visionary restaurateur, Rajesh has redefined modern Indian dining in the United States. He blends deep cultural roots with a sophisticated, contemporary approach to cuisine and service, earning Junoon international recognition and loyal acclaim.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (00:11):
Hello everybody and welcome.
You are listening to theRestaurant Guys.
I'm Mark Pascal and I'm herewith Francis Shot.
Together we own stage left in KaLombardi restaurants in New
Brunswick, New Jersey.
We're to bring you the insidetrack on food, wine, and the
finer things in life.
Hello, mark.
Hey Francis.
How are you doing today?
Uh, I'm doing better than Isuspect that I might be doing
because yesterday we went on, wewent on a cocktail Safari
(00:33):
Francis and I will, willoccasionally do this, we'll go
into the city or some city.
And, you know, we don't get outas much as we'd love to.
Right.
So we'll go try and hit 5, 6, 7,8 places in a day.
Yeah.
And, you know, that's kind ofhow we roll.
Well, you gotta have a drink ifyou go to a bar usually.
Yeah.
A little something to eat, youknow.
So, uh, we're gonna talk aboutsome really cool places and
(00:55):
really cool things we saw.
and there were a few thingsthat, it was one thing in
particular, a bar that didn'twork.
And, and our policy is always,if we find cool stuff, we're
gonna tell you where we foundit.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, if we.
Have a criticism.
We generally don't talk aboutthe place that, because it
doesn't really matter.
I mean, for our, our point ofview is we want to talk about
the Yep.
And especially this place can'tchange this.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
This particular thing we'regonna talk about.
(01:16):
Well, and, and you know, I thinkthe concepts are interesting.
I mean, it'd be a boring show ifall you talked about was only
the good stuff.
Yep.
But we went to a rooftop barYep.
That had.
Closed in their rooftop.
Like they had put, it wasplastic and glass over the whole
thing and it, not quite thewhole thing.
There was a tiny little piece ofsky Yeah.
(01:37):
That you could see from ourperspective.
I, it was a shed.
I felt like I was in a shed.
It was a very expensiverestaurant and they, and I don't
know, I, and I get that theywanna use it.
Yeah.
In Midtown Manhattan or it justreally can I, it was a shame.
Yeah.
Because they could have.
Done so much with it.
But you know, and this is theconversation we had last night,
(01:58):
right?
The conversation we had lastnight was, you want to be open?
300 days a year.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
At least.
Right.
You want to be able to seat yourrestaurant 300 days a year at
least.
And in midtown Manhattan, theweather simply does not allow
you to be open 300 days.
You know, and it's not possible.
But we were both there when itwas truly a rooftop.
(02:20):
Mm-hmm.
That was kind of open and, andinteresting and they had
umbrellas and stuff like that.
But you're right, you, youcouldn't see it all that time
and you know who the hell careswhat we think?
They were busy, they had peopleup there.
Right.
So I, I get, I get the moneybehind it, but.
They took what had been, and somany people do a great thing
with their rooftop, and you canenclose a rooftop, but you, you
can't sort of, it was somewhereI was shocked at the low level
(02:43):
of quality.
It was like enclosed.
Well, there was really nosunlight.
Coming through.
Yeah.
That was the biggest, thebiggest part of it is you didn't
feel like you were outsidebecause they had created this
kind of, structure that, and itwas a beautiful day outside, but
it was a little humid in there.
Mm-hmm.
It was, so, you, I, if you'regonna do something, you, you
gotta do it right.
You gotta look at the feel ofwhole thing and you've gotta
(03:03):
create a, a, an atmosphere thatworks when it's a beautiful day,
when it's not a beautiful day.
If you, if a rooftop bar is a,is a very specific thing.
Yeah.
Alright, well let's go on to thepositive things.
Okay.
So we went to some other coolplaces while we were there.
So why don't we start withClemente Bark, because that was,
that was one of the first placeswe went.
We had a cocktail there.
We had a little bite of foodthere, which was extraordinary.
(03:25):
Yeah.
Not surprisingly, Daniel whombeing the, the chef there from
11 Madison Park.
Yeah.
Uh, uh, can I describe the foodwe had?
Sure.
It was, it was a little, theycall it a pizza.
Did they call it a pizza?
What do they call it?
It was sole, sole.
But it wasn't a souffle, like,you know, that you think of the,
it didn't sole.
It didn't sole, there was no sofull to the souffle.
It was just a very thin piece offlat, kind of cracker bread.
(03:46):
Mm-hmm.
It was about the size of, Idon't know, my hand.
It was about the size of my handoutstretched, and it was
covered, entirely covered with,with summer truffles, with
truffles.
Like there were shingles on aroof.
Oh.
It was phenomenal.
It was great.
Yeah.
You know, summer truffles justsimply aren't as, as, as.
Pungent, as you know, peregGore, black Truffles or Italian,
(04:06):
truffles in, winter.
But they were delicious andthere were such an abundance of
them.
Yeah.
That you, they couldn't help betruffly, you know?
Um, Clemente Bar, uh, it was aninteresting thing.
We went the moment they opened.
Mm-hmm.
Literally the, you got there,you pushed on the door, it was
locked.
One minute later they opened thedoor.
Just, you know, not a Francisand.
(04:27):
Typical thing.
No.
The moment before you close isnormally when we get to your,
when we get to your bar orrestaurant, but that's a great
strategy.
I've gotten into some placesthat mm-hmm.
Were are hard to getreservations and places often
hold a few tables aside.
The way to be most likely to getthose tables Yep.
Is to walk in the door theminute they open and you'll get
a table either right away orshortly thereafter.
(04:49):
I've done that at a few placesin Manhattan.
It's also a strategy for RzaPizza in Jersey City.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, we know.
We know Dan, and it's in my, inmy neighborhood, but often if
I'm around there at five 30 whenthey open, I'm like, you know, I
can just walk in right now andI'll know I'll get a table and
it, and it's hard to get a tableotherwise.
Yeah, I mean, you know, ClementeBar is a reservation only place,
(05:09):
but literally it was, You know,a Monday and it was early and
gorgeous.
And they got us right ingorgeous space.
Gorgeous drinks.
Beautiful drinks, wellconceived, intelligent,
intelligent, bartenders who havebeen around, you know, so
they're not, it is certainly nottheir first job.
Yep.
Uh, it just was a great team.
Uh, not unexpectedly, you're in11 Madison Park.
(05:30):
Right, right, right.
Right's, you know, they were thenumber one restaurant in the, in
the country for a reason and.
the little bites of food we hadwere great.
Uh, and the cocktails wereintelligent and, and well-made.
And you know, the other thingthey did, uh, garnish.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Garnish, the garnish made sensewith the drink.
(05:51):
And there's so many places thatI see it must have a garnish.
And two of our drinks hadgarnishes and one of our drinks
did not have a garnish.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if a drink doesn't, if, ifthe garnish doesn't make the
drink better.
Then don't give it a garnish.
Yeah.
I, I love the one garnish theyhad on one of their drinks that
mm-hmm.
Was a, a, a bit of flavored ice.
(06:11):
Two of the ices were flavored.
Yep.
And as the ice and the bartenderexplained to us that as the ice
melts, it will impart adifferent flavor, which is gonna
change the character of thedrink right in front of you.
Anyway, a plus, love the room.
Love the space.
Go there.
Terrific.
Well, I just wanna mention, sothat the cocktail you had had a
bitter component in the ice thatas it melted Yep.
And.
(06:32):
First sip of that drink I didnot love.
Oh, yeah.
I that and as we got fartherinto the drink Yep.
You know, just three or fourminutes.
I mean, not, not, you know,Francis and I aren't gonna have
drinks for 35 minutes, uh, as wegot farther into the drink.
But as did we got that littlebit of melt.
Wonderful.
Yep.
Yep.
Really wonderful.
Uh, should we go on and talkabout Hawks more where we also
(06:52):
went for drinks?
Yeah, that was The Hawks Morewas really cool too.
That was a, a really lot ofstuff going on there and, and
Hawks More has had a change atthe head of its cocktail program
and you always worry.
Yeah.
When a, when a restaurant likethat, that's really known for
cocktails,, or some specificthing has a change at the helm
of that specific thing.
Yeah.
Jason Hernandez, Jason doing agreat job.
(07:14):
New guy.
He, he's created and I, and I'm,I don't know if I'm letting the
cat out of the bag here'causehe,'cause he let us into, he's
got this little whiskey clubthing going on where he's got
these rare and unusual bottles.
We got to have some old St.
Nick, which I, which okay.
I am not afraid, ashamed to sayI've never had before.
Yeah, right.
We had a 10-year-old, uh, and wehad a blend of seven to
(07:36):
30-year-old blend.
Yeah.
From old St.
Nick.
Really, really cool stuff.
There was a bunch of cool stuffon that shelf.
Yeah.
Uh, one of the things that youlove Waterford Yeah.
Was on his, his on a, on that,that special whiskey shelf.
So he's not just cocktails,he's, he's, he's spirits as well
in this whiskey club.
You don't have to like join oranything.
Right.
You just come in It's, he callsit the whiskey club and he has a
(07:56):
dedicated core group of guys whocome in, or men and women I
guess, who come in and drinkthese super high-end whiskeys
that you don't see anywhere.
Yep.
Uh, and we were very fortunatethat he sat with us.
And, uh, went over a few of thedifferent crazy whiskeys like
you just talked about.
Really knowledgeable, wonderfulstaff.
Love it.
They make a great martini.
Really, really happy with wellhawks more again, and they're
(08:17):
still making great cocktails andit's a wonderful steakhouse and
I think it's a, it's a coolplace.
Another originated in London,now is in New York, but, but
really a cool place.
Another A plus.
A plus, A plus.
Where else, where else you wannatalk about?
let's also talk about Joon.
Okay, so we'll just talk aboutthat quickly.
I know, uh, we're gonna haveRajesh on the show in just a
minute, but, a cool thing theydid was, uh, their cocktail menu
(08:40):
was by color.
Yeah.
You know, the old, remember theold fashioned, if it was by
color, it was just somethingcolored in the drink to, that
had no flavor, but they werevery purposeful.
That and the cocktail menu.
Beautiful.
It's beautiful.
It's one cocktail at a time thatyou would kind of turn over the
page.
It would be a, a beautiful highresolution, stylish picture of
the cocktail.
And he just named them aftercolor.
So it was the white cocktail,the black cocktail.
(09:01):
The red cocktail that The purplecocktail.
The yellow cocktail, absolutely.
But they were spectacularcocktails.
Yeah.
Great.
Great drinks.
Great drinks.
And they also did, I know we, wewent there at different times.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but they also did a, aflight of cocktails.
Mm-hmm.
It's like a four.
Um.
Individual cocktails that takeyou on a little journey.
And the presentation iswonderful.
Another A plus.
(09:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The three cool places we went toyesterday and, and one place
that that had good drinks, butthe atmosphere was not what we
were looking for.
And we will list those places inthe notes to this show.
And we're gonna have, uh, RajeshBarage who owns Jano on in just
a moment.
And we're gonna talk about howyou become a one Michelin star
restaurant.
(09:42):
The first Indian, one Michelinstar restaurant in the United
States.
Yeah.
Sit with us.
You're listening to theRestaurant.
Guys.
You can always find out moreabout
us@restaurantguyspodcast.com.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (09:54):
Hey there, everybody.
Welcome back.
Our guest today is Rajesh Baral.
He owns Jano Restaurant and hasowned it from the beginning.
I went there many, many yearsago when they first opened, and,
just went back recently.
It's a groundbreaking Indianrestaurant.
They're the only Indianrestaurant in America with a
Michelin star, and they deserveevery point on that star, and we
couldn't be happier to welcome,Rajesh to the show today.
(10:15):
Rajesh, welcome to the show.
So happy to have you here.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (10:18):
Happy to be here on it.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (10:20):
You know, I read a lot about your
work and obviously everybodyknows Jan.
I decided in preparation forthis show, I would do the
selfless work of get, takingmyself out to a five course
dinner at your place.
And, it was really fantastic.
Can you tell our listeners whomay not be familiar with Jano,
like what it is and what itbrought to New York for the
(10:40):
first time?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (10:42):
Well, I'm in the food and beverage,
business and I came in thiscountry in 1990.
so before I got in Jul, I haveto give a little background of
what the evolution of Indianfood has been like, a journey in
New York, what I've seen, when Icame in 35 years ago.
There were a couple of Indianrestaurant, maybe two, three,
and I came as an immigrant andlike every immigrant went to
(11:03):
the, hotbed of where Indianswere, Queens, Jackson Heights.
And that's where I started and Ihad opened my first restaurant
there.
I had no clue.
Honestly.
I had, been to this country likefirst time I came in 86, 87,
just as a visitor, for a week orso.
And, went back and I had neverthought of coming to New York
(11:23):
and settling And my, one of mydad's friends were very keen
that, let's open a restauranthere.
I said, okay, let me see.
And 90 when I came.
Well, now when I think back,it's very stupid of me to just
jump into opening a restaurantwithout going and working
somewhere, understanding howthings are done in a different
part of the world.
But anyway, I started and that'sbeen the journey.
(11:44):
So that restaurant was for aboutfour years, five years, very
successful.
Being lucky enough to be, youknow, it was probably, I would
say third or the fourth Indianrestaurant at that time.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (11:57):
The third Indian restaurant in New
York City.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (11:59):
In New York City, probably.
Yes.
You know, so the, the and, andqueens.
This was, probably the secondrestaurant, which, opened way
back in 90, right?
So, you know, started, uh, andthen very successful, but I kind
of, you know, was not very
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (12:16):
So.
So the, the, the Indianrestaurants, I, I recall when I
first lived in New York andbecame an adult here in New
Jersey, it was the kind of foodthat you were as likely to take
home with you as you order todine in the restaurant.
And it was all inexpensive andit was all no liquor license.
you have a wine state, wineSpectator, best of award of
excellence, same as we do.
(12:36):
what kind of restaurant was thisthat you opened in Queens And
what was the environment overall
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (12:41):
uh, you know, like I said, I was not
very aware of what's to be done,but Indian food wasn't, you
know, there as much.
at that point in time, actually,you know, what you are referring
to is that street, which, had alot of Indian restaurants they
were you.
run by the people fromBangladesh, Pakistan, India's
all together and naming it, youknow, as Indian cuisine,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (12:59):
Yes.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (13:00):
the beginning of, uh, Indian food is
very humble.
most of the immigrants who camein thought, okay.
I can cook good food, my wifecan cook good food.
Let's open a restaurant.
And that's how it started,which, paved the way for people
like us to come in years laterto, build on that.
But, that was the starting pointof, Indian food anywhere even in
London years ago.
it started like that.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26-2 (13:21):
I think that people really don't
realize that.
It was so kind of Frenchcentric.
And even when the contemporaryAmerican movement started in the
early nineties, everything stillleaned towards that very
European style restaurant forhigh end.
You're right.
for when people were talkingabout Michelin restaurant or
they were talking about, youknow, four star restaurant.
(13:43):
That's what they were talkingabout.
Well, and just to provide alittle more context about what
Marc Mark is saying, I rememberwhen, they opened Moishe down.
Town.
and they were going for threestars.
it was revolutionary.
'cause they're like, youprobably have to be French And
you can't be below 14th Street.
You were not in the rightneighborhood for sure.
Just neighborhood alone mighttake you out.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (14:03):
Yeah, so it was, like I said, there
was not much Indian food, so Istarted, but I had a background.
I worked, back home in one ofthe largest, hotel group called,
Taj Group.
it's called Indian NoodleCompany Limited, the largest.
huddle chain luxury brand inIndia, and I was the food and
beverage manager.
So I came with my own ideas andI, you know, started, but
obviously you need the rightaudience to accept.
(14:24):
Sometimes you fail because youwant to do too much, and you
know, people are already readyto accept that as well, you
know, so it was, a small Indianrestaurant.
Maybe you're 40 seat.
serving primarily North Indianfood.
That's what people are familiarwith that time, you know, add a
little bar and, and, whatnot.
The only unique thing I did wasI was the first guy to start
Indian Suites in this country.
(14:45):
was not a single vendor and Iwas the first one to do that.
And we were shipping Indiansuites all over the country
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (14:52):
So were the client, were the
clients to your restaurant, werethey mostly.
Indian people or people ofIndian extraction or.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26 (15:01):
Indians who were working in the
neighborhood or living in theneighborhood, and that was
actually that nineties onwards.
It was like kind of a littleblast as India started pouring
in and coming in and settling.
And you know, would come onweekends, you'll surprise.
There was no Indian restaurantin Philadelphia.
There was no restaurantrestaurant in Long Island.
There was no Indian restaurantin Jersey.
(15:21):
There was no Indian restaurant,in uh Connecticut.
So people would come on weekend.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (15:26):
Wow.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (15:27):
only one store which would supply
Indian, groceries.
So that would be their trip tocome to Jackson Heights to do
their Indian groceries, and thenhave an Indian meal or pack an
Indian meal and go from there.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (15:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (15:40):
So that was what 74th Street,
Jackson Heights was.
And, you know, it's successful.
But, you know, later on I sawthat my entire, you know,
audience had shifted becausegradually people started moving
out.
There were more influx ofIndians in that area than
anything else.
And, I was one day thinking, Isaid, listen man, I came to this
country.
I really want to, my passion isto showcase Indian cuisine, you
(16:02):
know, and it's been verymisrepresented.
People would think it to beoily, spicy, cheap food, you
know, pretty much like an ethnicor a mindset is, about it.
But I said, that's not what itis.
I started looking for places inNew York.
I said The only way I think Ican be able to bring Indian food
to the mainstream would be if Imoved to New York City,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (16:24):
In Manhattan.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (16:24):
When I came, I did not know what
uptown means
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (16:26):
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025_ (16:28):
I hardly bent outta means I did
not trade.
I remember a friend of mine wasdrove from, you know, Boston and
he came, he says, we are goingto go and have, you know, find
dining Indian food in the city.
There was one restaurant calledDawa, you know, on 58.
I said, okay.
you know, you're alwaysambitious.
I said, I wanna open in thecity.
And I started looking for placesit took me quite some years, you
(16:50):
know, and I would say, I 90, Icame, I opened this place, and,
95, I sold this business withoutrealizing that I have to start
something before I sell the damnthing.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (17:02):
Right.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (17:03):
You know, there was nobody to guide
me, so I sold about a year and ahalf, two years.
I sat at home doing nothing andburning money, looking for
places in, in, in New York to,open a restaurant.
I met a gentleman, like, I toldyou the fine dining restaurant.
When I went to Dine, luckily methim he was introduced to me with
(17:23):
a friend of mine and, startedgetting into a conversation.
I gave him some idea.
I said, I wanna do, restaurant.
He says, oh, my restaurant isthe number one.
And no doubt their restaurantwas the number one Indian
restaurant at that point intime.
in the country, you would havepeople like Bill Gates dine
there, Jackson once booked theentire restaurant dine there.
So it was what the restaurantwas, and I said, no, my idea is
(17:43):
very different.
he was very surprised.
He says, are you crazy?
Nobody's going to come and eat.
I said, listen, if you're not, Ilearned this, you know,
statement often used.
If you build it, they'll come.
You
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (17:53):
Yeah,
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26- (17:53):
famous movie
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (17:54):
so wait, lemme stop you right
there, because that was, that'sone of the things that.
Before you didn't really happen.
You said, I want to have a barand I want to sell nice wine.
And then when the cocktailmovement happened, you embraced
cocktails that that was a breakfor Indian restaurants in
America, wasn't it?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (18:11):
That was in the, that was in June.
I would say when we come toJune, I'll tell you the story of
how it started and why I did,this, so this was, so, my
learning was at that time, whatfine dining meant was you put a
nice tablecloth, have betterlights, have a menu, which has
like, you open in three pages,like on and on and on.
It'll go, you have like 10, youknow, lamb dishes, 10 goat
(18:31):
dishes, 10 this and that.
You know, I said, what the heck,what's going on here?
You basically have two saucesand you're dumping food in
there, and that's what you'redoing.
You know, and calling yourselffine dining, what a shame.
Indian food is much more, like Isaid, very few professionals
were in this business.
They were mostly, people who arefamily,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (18:47):
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26 (18:47):
they're not professionals, they don't
know.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (18:49):
Right.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (18:49):
They would give you, they'll say,
okay, we'll give you wines andwe'll give
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (18:53):
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26- (18:53):
you'll make your wine menu,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (18:55):
That still happens here in New Jersey
quite a bit.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (18:57):
and my learning was that okay, you
know, I think, there is a, whatwe do is very different than
what people perceive Indian foodto be.
I wanted to go fine dining, butwhen I started doing my little,
you know, research and askingpeople around, people could not
point India on the map of theworld.
I'm talking about non-Indians,right?
my goal was to promote Indianfood to the, mainstream American
(19:20):
crowd and not the Indian, Istarted thinking, what could,
what can I do to change that?
I said, you know what, let's notrisk it and open a, big fine
dining restaurant.
I want to do something, which,makes them feel welcome to try
the food, you know, I'm
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (19:35):
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26- (19:35):
about.
And then on university, on 11thStreet, I found a location, and,
It's a small place.
It used to be, I believe, aKorean fruit shop on a deli.
We went a business and, youknow, I took the lease, started
building.
you know, in my mind I'm sayingokay, the architect has not,
cannot be Indian.
I want someone to bring inideas.
(19:56):
I used to go out and dine, youknow, Mediterranean cafes or you
know, you go to an Italianbistro or a French bistro, the
word bistro.
So I said, why can't we have anIndian bistro?
You
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (20:06):
Yeah.
So what, so what year do we openCafe Spice?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (20:09):
98.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (20:10):
98.
And how is it received by NewYork?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (20:13):
So it changed the entire of Indian
dining would call, if you goback and do a little research of
Indian food.
it received every possibleaccolade you can think of.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (20:23):
Wow.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (20:23):
it was a six 70 seat restaurant and
we would do 250 dinners a night,irrespective of a Monday or a
Sunday, or a Saturday or aFriday,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (20:33):
Yep.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (20:33):
know, it was like that.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (20:34):
and so what ha I mean, back then the
publications mattered more thanthey do now.
It wasn't all about Yelp review.
So what did the publications,what did the Gale Green say?
What did the New York Times say?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (20:46):
New York Times never reviewed the
restaurant.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (20:49):
Well, you were,
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (20:50):
never reviewed, it was like$25 average
check.
I believe Eric Smo would write,right?
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (20:55):
Yeah, did Eric write about your.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (20:56):
you know, major publications would
write and, and that time rightwhen we were opening Cafe Spice,
tabla, which is now 11 Madison,the same spot table was opening
at that.
I mean, I remember Danny Ma andMichael Romano used to come and
dine
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (21:11):
Oh yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (21:11):
You
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (21:12):
that's great.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (21:12):
in there and have food at,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (21:14):
we were very good friends with
Floyd Cardo, who was a greatman.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (21:17):
Great guy.
so, yes, absolutely.
So Floyd, you know, he wasopening tabla at that time and,
you know, tabla opened after, usChicago Spice actually became a
cult following, I would say,grand Center was being built at
that time.
They approached us, they said,open an outlet here, which was
way back in two, maybe 99 or weopened a, you know.
Changed it and made, made alittle quick service model of
(21:38):
the Cafe Spice there, and thenwe expanded that brand into
Philadelphia, into Marylandinto, you know, multiple
locations.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (21:45):
so you have Cafe Spice, but what's
happening in the, country atthat point, certainly in the,
cities like Manhattan, is peopleare beginning to embrace ethnic
foods.
that they could be elevated,that they could be brought to
fine dining, that they could bebrought to another level.
Like you said, you had FloydCaro at Tabla, you had Mario
(22:07):
Vital, opening Del Post though.
You had, Scott Conant openingAlto.
So all that, the early twothousands, There's this movement
to restaurants that could, thatwe're trying to show that ethnic
foods from all around the world.
It didn't have to be Frenchfocused.
It didn't have to be,
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-2 (22:25):
Correct.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (22:25):
you know, this certain type of
restaurant.
And it could still be elevatedand it could still be a
wonderful dining experience.
Yeah.
And it still could be a fourstar or Michelin 1, 2, 3 star.
I see the enthusiasm with whichyou're saying that, and as if
you're like, wow, this is, butrealize that many of our
listeners, our younger listenersare never gonna understand that
Before that time it was Frenchrestaurants above 14th Street
(22:48):
where all that was consideredfine dining Correct.
So that that changes.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (22:51):
so the reason we did a cafe by
style model, like a, you know,upscale, I would say casual, but
still casual because I wanted toinvite.
I didn't want to do like ahundred dollars meal or a$80
meal or$75 Indian meal.
Nobody would've paid and peopledid not know Indian food, as
much.
But that kind of, slowlychanged.
And so that expanded, very well.
(23:12):
And now I started thinking, howcome the journey of June and I
was, thinking, Hmm, now I thinkI can go and fulfill my dream of
doing a real good fine diningIndian restaurant.
started thinking on those lines.
Uh, in 2005, I think first timeI received was in my head in
2007.
It, I kind of got the idea aboutfortified because that time
(23:34):
Indian economy had opened up.
So mostly Fortune 500 companiesstarted going to India.
The economy had opened up verywell.
So there was a lot of travel, alot of this thing, the awareness
of Indian food had started with.
I would say, the mainstreamAmericans.
Okay.
And I was saying, I said, now isthe time I think we can do a
fine dining Indian restaurant.
(23:54):
And when I say fine dining, Imean let's, the conversation
used to be, you know, a friendof mine called me.
this will highlight the, youknow, what I'm going to say.
He called me, says Rajesh, I'vegot 10 CEOs.
From India.
They're visiting and I'm hostingthem.
He used to have a hedge fund youknow, last night I would like to
take them, they're all Indiansand I would like to take them to
(24:17):
a good Indian meal, you know,really wine peering and
cocktails and this and that, andgood.
You know, I told him, I said,listen.
And he was telling me hisbudget, you know, which was un,
you know, people would go andspend at an Italian or French
restaurant and that they wouldsay, my budget is spending,
like, I can go 300,$400 aperson.
I said, even if you try it, youwon't find an Indian restaurant
(24:39):
which can bill you that much.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (24:40):
So you built one.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025_ (24:41):
I said, you are here longer than
me.
Which restaurant is there?
I said, that's the bestrestaurant right now.
Even if you go there, you can dowhatever the hell you want.
You can have the most expensivewines there.
you cannot build that, thatexperience is not there.
So he ultimately told me, and Ibooked him, like you said,
surprisingly Mario Vital, Ibooked him, del.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (24:59):
Right.
Sure.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (25:03):
Made me think.
I said, so I would, I startedworking on it and then my wife
asked me, you want 15restaurants, cafe Spices were
13.
And then we, I just built a bigcommissary.
We were supplying food to WholeFoods with a partner.
why the hell do you wanna openanother restaurant and take
this?
Big headache.
I said, listen, you know, Ithink Indian food has to reach
that level that there's amazingcuisine.
(25:25):
It's so diverse.
this thing has not been exploredand this myth of scotch and beer
works with Indian food is veryBritish thought.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (25:32):
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (25:33):
are wines work very fantastic.
There are things which will workvery fantastic there.
I think there is a potential, Imay not know, I'm not master at,
making a good cocktail or,understanding a lot of wines,
but I said I can build a team.
Which can, you know, I know thefood part and I can build a
team.
We can, you know,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (25:49):
Right.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (25:50):
build something, you
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (25:51):
And again, you have this moment in
time where you have both thecreative minds like yours.
Which are saying, Hey, I havethis cuisine.
I have the ability to presentyou something that's special and
extraordinary.
And you have the public saying,you know what?
I do want something different.
I'm ready to experiment.
I'm ready to go outside mycomfort zone and try some things
(26:13):
that maybe are a little moreinteresting or a little
different than what I ate mywhole life.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (26:18):
Yeah, so my whole, my education, like
I told you, I came in 90, Ididn't study here.
I didn't work for anyone.
So I said, how do I educatemyself?
And so my biggest expense wouldbe.
Going out twice a week to go anddine out.
So my bills would come at theend of the year where I would
say you spent 50 grand, don'thave a lot of money.
That was, you know, spending innineties to that kinda money.
(26:38):
I didn't
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (26:39):
Yep.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26- (26:39):
money.
Okay.
That's my education,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (26:41):
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08- (26:41):
education fund.
I think nothing like learningfrom there.
So what I learned was that infood I can do what else is there
in a conversation When 10 peopleare sitting and they want to go
and have Indian, you know, whydo they don't go?
I should.
Work backwards.
Ambience service style, a greatcocktail program, a great vine
(27:04):
program.
These all elements are missingin Indian food.
Food, yes, you can do, that'sone part.
One of the other parts, youknow, that is why they would go
to Italian is Italian.
You can have good pasta andother restaurants, you don't
have to go to Del Post store.
Right.
So example, but you go forentire experience part of
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (27:21):
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (27:21):
you know,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (27:21):
So talk to us about getting Jano
open and what that was like andwhat people found when they went
in there, and the team you puttogether to make it happen.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (27:28):
Yeah, so I made my mission statement
saying, I want to open arestaurant that serves Indian
food, not an Indian restaurant.
And people didn't understanduntil I made them explain what
it is.
and then I started looking for,a site which had to be, you
know, you have been to the firstrestaurant you've never seen
Indian restaurant.
10,000 square foot high ceilings
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (27:45):
It was amazing.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (27:46):
Yeah.
So, to build that was theenvironment or the style part of
it, or
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (27:50):
Yep.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (27:50):
part of it
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (27:51):
And what, what year is this that you
opened?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_0 (27:54):
officially, or 2011, January to opened.
But we did friends and familyDecember of the second week of
December, 2010, And, that's whenit, it.
Mark (28:04):
well, and in 2012,, you weren't a Michelin star
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (28:06):
Yes.
And then we had it for eightconsecutive years till the
pandemic hit,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (28:11):
Well, so I remember, when you first
opened, because it had been somegreat bar before you had, that
space had been a bar before youopened there.
But then a friend of mine, a guynamed Scott Carney was your
opening wine director.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025_ (28:22):
I said, building the team, I said
now I really wanna build a team.
I wanna bring in a team.
And honestly, I was not focusingon.
To get a Michelin or get stars.
think these things come if youdo things with a passion and do
right way, this is all thebyproduct of things done, right.
So I said get a team.
So I hired a GM who had workedwith Alan, had worked with the,
(28:43):
at that time he was working withthe poster, so he was their
operation manager.
So I got him, he was my gm.
He actually brought in ScottKearney.
I couldn't afford Scott Kearney.
Scott Kearney used to work at,Gotham Bar and Drill.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (28:54):
Yes.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (28:54):
was gm.
And so, I'll put in why Scottjoined.
You know, obviously he had theability, he is one of the first
few, my master songs at thattime, only time.
And, uh, I was having a cup ofcoffee with him in Starbucks and
you know, my gm, Robin said, yougo and talk to him because I, I
said my budget, this is no way,man.
He's making already more thanwhat you're offering.
(29:15):
I said, he can't do that.
So I sat with him, I spoke.
And in the conversation, I thinkI read what Scott, wanted.
Scott wanted to basically getinto academics in few years, two
years or so.
He says, I'm tired of, you know,kind of working the floor, doing
the list, doing all that.
I got a couple of years left andI want to go into teaching and
doing things and whatnot, what Iwanted to do.
(29:36):
So then I said, that gave me,you know, like a hook.
I said, Scott, it works rightFor right for you to come and
accept what I want I'm doing.
I said, listen.
A lot of beverage directors canmake a great wine list for an
Italian restaurant, for a Frenchrestaurant for this.
But that's been done.
It is already there.
To come and do it for an Indianrestaurant would be a challenge.
And I think you put the listtogether, it'll give the whole
(29:58):
project and the casino.
And you are the one who doing itand you know, kind of give that
thought that wine work workswith Indian food done.
Right.
Right.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (30:06):
even from the outset of bringing him
on board, bringing in a masterpsalm, like him with his
prestige and, you know, we knewhim personally because he just,
he's so knowledgeable abouteverything.
And it was, I remember thinking,Scott Carney's gonna do the
wines at an Indian restaurant.
I have to go.
And that was that.
I had dinner there that nightwith a woman who was studying
(30:28):
for her master of wine degree.
'cause we were like, we gottasee this.
Mm-hmm.
And so it really did make a hugedifference.
And it was great.
It was a great list.
He was, and he was on the floorselling us wine.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (30:37):
Yeah.
so we had three songs at thattime.
this was all the part of theexperience, so that was the
whole buildup.
And then, you know, New YorkTimes came and, you know,
fantastic review.
They gave us it.
We got a two star review, whichread like a three, you
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (30:49):
Yep.
Yep.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (30:50):
us to Del Post,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (30:50):
they used to do that all the time.
Like you could tell thatsomebody really wanted it to be
a three star review, but theywould make it two stars.
And sometimes if they madesomething a three star that was
just barely a three star, thereview would be a little worse.
Sometimes it was better to get atwo star review that was glowing
than a three star review wherethey were knocking you down a
(31:12):
pack.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-2 (31:12):
actually you are correct.
So my peer company said you gota glowing your singing review
two star, which is betterbecause even if you read a three
star review somewhere, they willtalk about whether a dessert or
whether one appetizer orsomething like that is missed
the point.
Miss the mark missed somethingin here.
There was nothing you would talkabout to miss the mark, you
know?
So it then came the Michelin,which I least expected, to be
(31:34):
honest, So then it, that was thejourney.
And we've been there 15 yearsnow, but we don't, sit on our
past laurels and the, we neverhad a testing menu in the
beginning.
If you go now, I believe you dida testing menu, which we keep
changing.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (31:46):
Mark and I talk about tasting menus
all the time because in our, wehave two restaurants.
Our fine dining restaurant, weopened in 92, and then by the
end of the nineties, all therestaurants were tasting menu
only.
Right.
So we always had an a la carteoption.
Mm-hmm.
But we leaned heavily on thetasting menu and then we kind of
lament how they became sounfashionable and, but so it.
They are, seem to be making abit of a resurgence as an
(32:08):
option.
And I, I went to your restaurantwith my cousin and his
girlfriend and we were thrilledto say, oh my God, we'll take
the five course, you know, sendus wine pairings.
Well, I think that a menu likeyours lends itself more to a
tasting menu because one of theproblems that a restaurant like
ours has is so much of it isfamiliar, right.
It's already formulated theiropinions about what they like
(32:29):
and what they don't like in ourcuisines.
So if there's something on thetasting menu that they don't
like, they're like, okay, Ican't do the tasting menu.
'cause course number seven inthe 16 course tasting menu is
something I don't care for.
But when you look at a, acuisine like yours, where, where
for a lot of people it'll beless familiar.
Maybe I'm more willing because.
(32:51):
I don't, I don't know this food.
I wanna experience as much of itas I can anyway.
Well, and I don't know what thehell I'm doing so you can guide
me.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (32:57):
Yeah.
But, our menu besides tasting,if you look at our menu
structure, You can't dotechnically a la car.
You call you, we call it threecourse, four courses and
tasting.
That's what it is.
But testing is, you see thecourses, whereas when we call
three and four courses.
you can choose from the a la carand make your course yourself,
But it's no, yeah, it's nosharing.
that was one of the issues.
We had a lot of problem, solvingand we said, okay, this is how
(33:18):
we are gonna do.
Five people come, they ordertheir main, they can share if
they like, but they're gonna beX mains,
the-restaurant-guys_2_0 (33:24):
Mm-hmm.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (33:24):
apps and then, these days people
don't take dessert.
So with that option, we left it.
We said, okay, it could be athree, four fourth.
Fourth is your dessert if youdon't want,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (33:33):
so what was the problem you found
yourself with sharing as, as arestaurant that just.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (33:37):
so this, this is, you know, I'll
tell you in Indian, so I'mtalking like from absolutely
like a business sense of point,right?
Indian food perception issharing.
Share.
when people walk in, I would,and you know, I would say mostly
from Southeast Asia, our countryand this and that.
We are very used to eating,shared, you know, and they would
(33:59):
come in, now they're sittingthere, eight people.
And I would see that thishappened a lot and lot.
the-restaurant-guys_2_0 (34:03):
Mm-hmm.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (34:04):
Of time, eight people will come in
order appetizers share or orderthree or four beans
the-restaurant-guys_2_0 (34:09):
Mm-hmm.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (34:12):
you know, the cuisine lends itself
like you can fill yourself ifyou wanna do that way, order
three or four main and order alot of breads, rice, this and
that.
when we are looking at anaverage check you are doing.
300 covers in my previousrestaurant.
This is a smaller one.
And we look at our sale and say,man, what is our average check?
How do we, you can't keep incase your prices.
That's not gonna work.
So I said, let's change thestyle of the menu.
(34:33):
and we are probably the onlyIndian restaurant who does this,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (34:36):
And did you get a lot of pushback
when you did that?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (34:38):
Oh, they, oh hell of a lot.
We did get, we did get, we didget, and we still, you know, I
still see, sometimes I'll see aone star review and I, when I
read it, I say, what the heck?
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26-2 (34:48):
I will tell you, when I see a one
star review, and it's written bysomebody who is just not my
customer for whatever reason,they're just not my customer.
They don't want what I'moffering, and I don't have what
they want.
I just kind of put that aside.
it, it does not inform what I'mgonna do tomorrow when I see a
one star review and I'm like,oh, that shouldn't have
(35:09):
happened.
Oh, that was not the way Iintended it.
Well, that will change the way Ido things.
But a one star review for that,that is not related to something
I want to do is, a one starreview where I say to Mark, they
left out the part where youthrew them out of the
restaurant.
it's like crazy, you know?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26- (35:26):
People will come in and they'll argue
in the front.
We say, listen, you made areservation.
The moment you make areservation, your text goes out,
confirmation goes out, talksabout the dress policy, child
policy.
You didn't bother read it.
and we offer them, you know, youcan dine outdoors.
It's nicely done outdoors.
You can have kids sit there andenjoy, but we don't allow.
Instead they would boom,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (35:45):
Yeah, and I wanna say it's funny when
people push back on that,because we had a problem before
the pandemic.
we had a group of people whowould come in, it was one group
of friends, and they'd make areservation for.
9, 12, 13 people, and they'd belike 15 minutes before we closed
every night, and they wouldorder five entrees among them.
And I remember we instituted apolicy because of this group,
(36:08):
and it went out in the text whenyou made your reservation.
We said, just so you know, it'sone entree per person.
And they were outraged.
I had a long conversation with'em, like, how dare you do that?
I'm like, this isn't a library.
And I got, you don't have to eatit, you just have to pay for it,
you know, but There's a pointwhere to make it worthwhile and
for the waiters to make aliving, you've gotta have a
minimum amount of money coming.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (36:29):
And then, well, I guess everything
is, uh, changing.
I think people are also gettingvery, knowledgeable about
things.
You can't please everybody, asyou say, there's so many people
come in and out of the doorthat, we try our best sometimes,
we may fall short, you
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (36:41):
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (36:41):
but we are ever evolving.
We learn from mistakes.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (36:43):
We try to learn from our mistakes.
Sometimes we do them over andover and over again.
So lemme ask you a question.
the food that I had was amazing.
I mean, just straight onthrough.
Amazing, perfect.
The cocktails were amazing.
and your front of house peoplewere extraordinary.
They truly were.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (37:00):
you.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (37:00):
mean really, really a great cadra of
people.
But the food that you serve, towhat extent is that food that
you will find in India and towhat extent is it very fine
dining, creative food that isyour inspired by food that you'd
find in India?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (37:18):
See there are, I would say, a lot of
dishes you are, it means if yougo to India, you'll find that
dish.
But with, is it presented thatway?
No.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (37:27):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (37:28):
that style?
No.
you know, let's say if, likethere's a dish, we have
something called duck telecherry pepper
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (37:35):
Yep.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (37:35):
this, and, you know, our genome
kitchen is, I would say, and I,I consciously made this effort.
To change it way back in 12 or13 when I opened that I want, a
lot of chefs who are non-Indianand people are surprised.
What the heck are you talkingabout?
And you'll be surprised to knowthree of my executive chefs have
been non-Indians.
one of them came from Alan d AlDugas.
(37:57):
one of them came from, hadworked with John Ramsey, you
know, and they were nothingIndian.
And the reason I had them washow to elevate the presentation
of food and come up with ideas.
I saw, I would call, you know,chef Traditional and Chef
Modern, that
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (38:12):
Right.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (38:13):
We had given them, you know,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (38:14):
Oh, that's great.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (38:14):
we one because, so I, and this is a
very, duck, tele cherry pepper,elli, cherry pepper, ous, or
dish comes from there.
the-restaurant-guys_2_0 (38:21):
Mm-hmm.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (38:21):
the duck texture is very different
than chicken texture.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (38:24):
Yes.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (38:25):
Duck is mostly, you can do like a
steak.
You don't do your temp.
You know, you, you do.
It's not done the way it isdone.
So if you go and eat there, it'snot the same.
we were doing the same way,which was done in India because
that's what I, my chef weredoing till I, hired this chef
one day all tells me.
boss, can I redo this dish?
I said how he said, just tellyour guy to make the sauce.
(38:47):
Don't bother about the, the,about the duck part.
I'll do the duck.
Let him do the, sauce, because Idon't know the sauce.
let him make the sauce.
So I did.
I said, fine.
So he orders a duck.
I believe he ordered a Normandydeduct.
He aged it, you know, two weeks,which is still due.
And, uh, then he, takes thebreast rendering his own fat and
no, no, it's not an Indiantechnique.
It's a pretty, very Frenchtechnique.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (39:08):
Yep.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (39:08):
that
the-restaurant-guys_2_0 (39:09):
Mm-hmm.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26 (39:09):
sliced, sliced it and put it on top of
the sauce.
That's what the presentation, ifI send you a picture, you'll
see, I don't know if you tastedthat dish.
It's, we call duck chilies,pepper, and I cannot take it off
the menu.
It's
the-restaurant-guys_2_0 (39:20):
Mm-hmm.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (39:21):
take it
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (39:21):
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (39:22):
so now it's marrying off.
You know, people often sayconfused that, okay, you are
you, you're trying to do finedining.
Are you fusion?
I said, no, I'm not fusion.
Yes, we are fusion, but not oftradition or of flavors.
We are fusion of technique.
You know, you can, you can adaptdifferent techniques because
like, what is the tul?
(39:43):
Tul is tan, ur is basically anoven.
When 405 years, a hundred yearsago, there was no.
and it came from Iran and youknow, the Persia where they
should bake breads and do allthis thing like in oven.
There were no ovens.
So these are, now you have ovensyou don't have to use,
necessarily use it and do, youdon't have to grill things.
So you have modern equipment,modern techniques, which you can
(40:04):
adapt and make the foodactually.
Much better in, you know, yourtexture, your taste, your
flavor, your presentation so youcan adapt that, you know, and
don't have to follow that.
So this is something we, we doin-house and that's what the,
it's a chef's take on what ourmenu would
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (40:21):
So talk to us about who is your
chef now?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (40:24):
It's very, JI happens to be my
understand.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26-2 (40:28):
I knew that.
to.
I knew that.
So tell us about your son.
The.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (40:31):
So I honestly, never wanted him to
be a chef.
I never thought he'd be a chef.
A very pampered young kid.
my wife would make him breakfastin bed.
He would get everything, youknow, pretty.
I said, this guy can't even, thebest thing I do is make a cup of
tea for us.
You know, sometimes that's aboutit.
Nothing else.
And then, you know, he goes tocollege.
He was in, the Rutgers and thenmoved to, in the city.
And then, my wife tells me, youknow, it's summer vacation.
(40:52):
Why do you put him at work?
I said, listen, I'm not runninga mom pop show.
You know, it's a restaurant.
just, because he's your son,you're telling me put him to
work, what work he's gonna do.
See, otherwise he's gonna sit athome and play video games.
His friends are gonna come, andthat's what they're doing
Summer.
Let him do something.
I said, okay.
So I spoke to my gm.
I said, he says, okay, radi,we'll figure it out.
He is a good looking young kid.
Let's train him and let him putin the front desk and he'll work
(41:14):
with the, he can, he can besmart enough to understand table
numbers and go and hand a menuand see people.
Right?
So that's how he started.
He started, he got bored, he gotfed up.
he would watch the bar and he'sseeing a lot of interaction
happening at the bar.
He thought bar is a big scene.
You know, you chat, you do.
He said, I wanna work at thebar.
I said, you don't know a damnwhat?
A bar.
You can't work at the bar.
But anyway, I spoke to our barmanager, I said, he says, okay,
(41:35):
sure, let's, let's put into thegrind.
All he did was wiping glasses.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (41:38):
right.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (41:39):
is called working at the bar.
then he went to the kitchenthere.
I don't know what clicked.
He started from onion peeling.
He never went to culinaryschool, but he started picking
up and he started working withall the chefs.
And then he self-taught, hewent, he traveled, he, you know,
did a lot of stuff.
you know, when uh, my last chef,O has owns AKA now and was
(41:59):
leaving to open his ownrestaurant.
He told me, you know, I wasstill looking for a chef.
He was a sous chef already afterabout six years or so, he
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (42:07):
Yep.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (42:08):
chef,
the-restaurant-guys_2_0 (42:08):
Mm-hmm.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26 (42:09):
through the ranks.
And you know, he told me, hesaid, boss, don't look for, I
think he's ready.
I said, and I said, uh, are you,are you serious?
You think he'll be able to takethe responsibility?
He says, I think he, you give achance he'll be able to do that.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (42:20):
Well, it's hard to get distracted when
the tickets are piling up inyour face, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025_ (42:25):
I think he's been the exactly chef
now for, I would say six years.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (42:31):
You heard that I was there at the
end of the meal.
'cause you came up.
Said hello, but you guys didn'tknow who I was when I dined
there.
Your pastry chef came out, yourson came out and talked about
the dishes and that he's aself-taught chef.
With that sort of, the preciseand careful nature of that menu,
that's, congratulations to him.
It's really, really amazingstuff.
Rajesh, the clock on the wallsays, uh, our time is coming to
(42:53):
an end.
it's been fascinating talkingwith you and thank you for Jan
Noon.
I, I intend to go back realsoon.
really cool place that, we lovetalking to people who change the
landscape, right?
that's one of our favoritethings to do when we're
interviewing somebody, issomebody who, made things
different.
And Jano is one of thoserestaurants that just made
things different.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (43:11):
Thank you and you guys should come and
try the other one, which is theEast village.
It opened a year and a half ago.
That is the, what I call soulfulof India.
That's no pretenses.
That's the way we grew up eatingthe streets, on the road I
brought some of the legendary.
eating places of India, knownfor one or two dishes, and
they're there for the fourthgeneration a hundred years.
(43:31):
120 years.
So I said, instead of travelingthe country, why don't I make a
menu and bring the dishes oneoff and do a menu and people eat
under one roof.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26-2 (43:41):
I love it.
that's beautiful.
But you need to understand thatFrancis and I love pretenses.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (43:45):
Yeah.
No, I know, but I, I, I believe,believe you me, there's a friend
of mine who started the MichelinGuide in this country.
I didn't know her that time, butshe resigned 25 years in
Michelin.
She came two weeks ago and I wastelling her I come tired just by
like, you know, she said, okay.
She came and she was like blownaway, and after that she's come
three times on her own,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (44:05):
tell us the name and the website for
the new place.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (44:07):
It's called J-A-Z-B-A.
Juba.
It makes, it means same Jan.
Passion and Juba also meanspassion with emotion, you know,
so it's an East Village whereOld Maku was the first Maku,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (44:19):
Great.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26- (44:20):
corner of 13 and second Avenue.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (44:22):
Great,
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (44:23):
JBA and NYC let me know when you're
coming and this time I'll meetyou in person.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (44:27):
great.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (44:27):
about the dishes.
the-restaurant-guys_ (44:28):
Excellent.
We'll see you there soon.
so you heard it here first.
We'll be back in just a moment.
You're listening to therestaurant, guys.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (45:01):
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back.
Uh, I have to tell you, thatmeal was great.
the tuna puka.
That was a mm-hmm.
Cilantro, purry puff, um, withchat masala, caviar and, tuna in
it.
it was, it was, this was.
Beautiful, delicate little puff.
And that stuff was all insideit, like a little purse, but
crunchy.
Mm-hmm.
And then it had a warm kind of,you could drink it or you could
(45:22):
pour it in the puff'cause it waswaterproof and then you put the
whole puff in your mouth andwent inside your mouth.
Well one of the things he talkedabout off the air with us was
that pushka is a traditionally avegetarian dish, right?
Yeah.
and one of the things he's donein his restaurant is he
introduced an ingredient.
Like tuna to it.
Yeah.
And caviar.
Right.
Okay.
So I, I often say my favoriteuse for vegetarian cuisine is as
(45:44):
a base for meat.
But, but you know, that's,that's kind of what I, I think
where this restaurant has goneto, right?
It's taken some of thesetraditional methods and
ingredients and sauces and, and,and.
Created this amalgam, but notfusion cuisine.
Okay.
It's not fusion cuisine.
(46:05):
You know, it's, it's funny, whenI asked that question, I
realized that there's alimitation to even the way to
frame the question because Yes,it you, any good restaurant in
any area in India, it's not likeIndian cuisine is frozen in
India.
Right.
It's if a great restaurant inIndia will.
Evolve, right.
Update, take the recipes thatthey have, and there will be new
(46:25):
things done to it in the nextiteration.
Mm-hmm.
And so that's, you know, that's,I think that's fascinating what
that line is.
one of, one of the things hetalked about earlier in the
show, and it was his, hiseducation, right?
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and I know you and I livedthis.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
So you're making very littlemoney, but your education is
going to other restaurants.
Mm-hmm.
Your education is spending moneyin other restaurants.
(46:47):
And I remember.
You know, Jennifer and I havinga discussion about.
The fact that we had a used ahundred dollars couch in our
house, but we had just spent$350mm-hmm.
On dinner for two and, you know,you, but you had to do that.
That was, you still have to dothat.
Yes.
Okay.
We still go out to restaurantsall the time.
We're still watching what'shappening, what's evolving, how
(47:09):
things are changing, what'snext, what's coming back.
Being out in restaurants is partof the job.
Oh, a hundred percent.
Now, you know, I remember, uh,our good friend Nicholas
Ferrari, who owns it, used toown restaurant Nicholas.
It's become Nicholas Sparrow andRoost, a more casual dining
spot.
He's a great chef and now agreat restaurateur.
I remember when he was cookingin restaurants around for very
(47:31):
little money'cause we had aconversation that probably, and
I don't wanna get anybody mad atme, but if you want to become a
great chef and that's your goal,um.
If you're gonna spend.
A hundred thousand dollars on aculinary school.
Mm-hmm.
You will probably get a bettereducation going to STA air to,
(47:52):
to basically train in severalhigh-end kitchens that are all
doing cool, interesting things.
Stay there six months or a yearto learn something and move on
to the next.
And that's what he was doingthough.
He did go to culinary school aswell.
So you, so you're spending themoney on, honestly, in those
types of places on forfeitedsalary.
right, you're spending the moneyon a low salary, uh, learning
environment and going out todinner.
It's still less than tuition'cause you get something back.
(48:14):
Mm-hmm.
but he, he said he used to go tothe bars of the restaurants
where he wasn't staging inwherever he was, sit at the bar.
Order no drinks.
Mm-hmm.
And just taste and to eat thefood and, and enjoy the food.
I think that's, I think that'ssuper important.
Not just the food, theexperience.
You know, I, I, I tell my staffthis all the time, you know, go
someplace for lunch.
Go Yeah.
You know, have an iced tea.
(48:35):
You can, you know, yeah.
You want to experience the wholething with the, with the wine
and food and cocktails and allof that, but you don't have that
budget right now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you're young restaurantprofessional.
Go have, have lunch in four orfive of the best places you can,
you can get into.
it's not just about like, let melook at how they put this dish
together.
You really are young people whodon't have experience going to
(48:56):
fine dining restaurants.
Mm-hmm.
First time I walked into a finedining restaurant, I walked into
the kitchen and applied for ajob at the Frog and Peach.
Yes.
We know.
And, uh, and, uh, but you, it'sjust kind of like.
You gotta marinate in it.
Mm-hmm.
You have to get the whole feelof why all this is important.
I, I, you know, I think that'seven more now, there's a whole
generation of people who areworking in restaurants who've
(49:19):
never been to great restaurants.
Yeah.
And I think it's just, it's partof the learning experience.
It's part of the education and,okay, you didn't invest in
school, but you need to investin this.
Oh, yeah, a hundred percent.
So I want to end on one funnynote.
We, we talked to Rajesh about,um, why he put the tasting menu
in, because with people sharingmm-hmm.
He just couldn't, he needed, youneeded a minimum amount per
(49:40):
person in order to pay for thechair and the lights and the
people and the waiters need tomake a certain amount.
I do remember.
Um, there was, there was onetime we had a group of grad
students from Rutgers, we lovestudents from Rutgers.
We were students at Rutgers, butthis group of grad students that
used to come into the bar andthere'd be like a dozen of them.
And it's a small bar.
They take up half the seats inthe bar sometimes more, and they
(50:03):
would.
Order.
Four drinks between them.
Mm-hmm.
after the staff had begged us todo something about this.
Mm-hmm.
Francis (50:08):
'cause they're making no money'cause nobody else can
get in.
and they would tip very littleon the four drinks they got.
Yeah.
And, uh, I, I remember I walkedup and I said, listen.
Everybody has to ordersomething.
It's a one drink per person.
Like, oh, are you gonna pay formy D W I when I get pulled over?
Okay.
It doesn't have to be analcoholic drink.
Everybody here has to spendmoney when you come in and they
were outraged.
And I always remember the onegraduate student, she said, uh,
(50:32):
I wanna, I wanna speak to themanager.
I was like, I'm, I'm the owner,there's the manager.
He works for me.
And, and uh, and she said, well,I wanna see this in writing.
And I, I remember I'm such anasshole.
I picked up the cocktail napkin.
I wrote down one drink perperson on it and I handed it to
you.
Mark (50:47):
You are a jerk.
Anyway.
Can't let, can't, can't sweatthe small stuff.
that was a really fun show andI'm, I'm glad we had Rahan.
He's really made a difference inthe culinary scene and, I look
forward to going to, to JazbaYeah, let's go tonight.
I'm Francis Shot.
And I'm Mark Pascal.
We are the restaurant guys.
You can always find outmore@restaurantguyspodcast.com
Hello everybody and welcome.
You are listening to theRestaurant Guys.
I'm Mark Pascal and I'm herewith Francis Shot.
Together we own stage left in KaLombardi restaurants in New
Brunswick, New Jersey.
We're to bring you the insidetrack on food, wine, and the
finer things in life.
Hello, mark.
Hey Francis.
How are you doing today?
Uh, I'm doing better than Isuspect that I might be doing
because yesterday we went on, wewent on a cocktail Safari
(00:33):
Francis and I will, willoccasionally do this, we'll go
into the city or some city.
And, you know, we don't get outas much as we'd love to.
Right.
So we'll go try and hit 5, 6, 7,8 places in a day.
Yeah.
And, you know, that's kind ofhow we roll.
Well, you gotta have a drink ifyou go to a bar usually.
Yeah.
A little something to eat, youknow.
So, uh, we're gonna talk aboutsome really cool places and
(00:55):
really cool things we saw.
and there were a few thingsthat, it was one thing in
particular, a bar that didn'twork.
And, and our policy is always,if we find cool stuff, we're
gonna tell you where we foundit.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, if we.
Have a criticism.
We generally don't talk aboutthe place that, because it
doesn't really matter.
I mean, for our, our point ofview is we want to talk about
the Yep.
And especially this place can'tchange this.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
This particular thing we'regonna talk about.
(01:16):
Well, and, and you know, I thinkthe concepts are interesting.
I mean, it'd be a boring show ifall you talked about was only
the good stuff.
Yep.
But we went to a rooftop barYep.
That had.
Closed in their rooftop.
Like they had put, it wasplastic and glass over the whole
thing and it, not quite thewhole thing.
There was a tiny little piece ofsky Yeah.
(01:37):
That you could see from ourperspective.
I, it was a shed.
I felt like I was in a shed.
It was a very expensiverestaurant and they, and I don't
know, I, and I get that theywanna use it.
Yeah.
In Midtown Manhattan or it justreally can I, it was a shame.
Yeah.
Because they could have.
Done so much with it.
But you know, and this is theconversation we had last night,
(01:58):
right?
The conversation we had lastnight was, you want to be open?
300 days a year.
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
At least.
Right.
You want to be able to seat yourrestaurant 300 days a year at
least.
And in midtown Manhattan, theweather simply does not allow
you to be open 300 days.
You know, and it's not possible.
But we were both there when itwas truly a rooftop.
(02:20):
Mm-hmm.
That was kind of open and, andinteresting and they had
umbrellas and stuff like that.
But you're right, you, youcouldn't see it all that time
and you know who the hell careswhat we think?
They were busy, they had peopleup there.
Right.
So I, I get, I get the moneybehind it, but.
They took what had been, and somany people do a great thing
with their rooftop, and you canenclose a rooftop, but you, you
can't sort of, it was somewhereI was shocked at the low level
(02:43):
of quality.
It was like enclosed.
Well, there was really nosunlight.
Coming through.
Yeah.
That was the biggest, thebiggest part of it is you didn't
feel like you were outsidebecause they had created this
kind of, structure that, and itwas a beautiful day outside, but
it was a little humid in there.
Mm-hmm.
It was, so, you, I, if you'regonna do something, you, you
gotta do it right.
You gotta look at the feel ofwhole thing and you've gotta
(03:03):
create a, a, an atmosphere thatworks when it's a beautiful day,
when it's not a beautiful day.
If you, if a rooftop bar is a,is a very specific thing.
Yeah.
Alright, well let's go on to thepositive things.
Okay.
So we went to some other coolplaces while we were there.
So why don't we start withClemente Bark, because that was,
that was one of the first placeswe went.
We had a cocktail there.
We had a little bite of foodthere, which was extraordinary.
(03:25):
Yeah.
Not surprisingly, Daniel whombeing the, the chef there from
11 Madison Park.
Yeah.
Uh, uh, can I describe the foodwe had?
Sure.
It was, it was a little, theycall it a pizza.
Did they call it a pizza?
What do they call it?
It was sole, sole.
But it wasn't a souffle, like,you know, that you think of the,
it didn't sole.
It didn't sole, there was no sofull to the souffle.
It was just a very thin piece offlat, kind of cracker bread.
(03:46):
Mm-hmm.
It was about the size of, Idon't know, my hand.
It was about the size of my handoutstretched, and it was
covered, entirely covered with,with summer truffles, with
truffles.
Like there were shingles on aroof.
Oh.
It was phenomenal.
It was great.
Yeah.
You know, summer truffles justsimply aren't as, as, as.
Pungent, as you know, peregGore, black Truffles or Italian,
(04:06):
truffles in, winter.
But they were delicious andthere were such an abundance of
them.
Yeah.
That you, they couldn't help betruffly, you know?
Um, Clemente Bar, uh, it was aninteresting thing.
We went the moment they opened.
Mm-hmm.
Literally the, you got there,you pushed on the door, it was
locked.
One minute later they opened thedoor.
Just, you know, not a Francisand.
(04:27):
Typical thing.
No.
The moment before you close isnormally when we get to your,
when we get to your bar orrestaurant, but that's a great
strategy.
I've gotten into some placesthat mm-hmm.
Were are hard to getreservations and places often
hold a few tables aside.
The way to be most likely to getthose tables Yep.
Is to walk in the door theminute they open and you'll get
a table either right away orshortly thereafter.
(04:49):
I've done that at a few placesin Manhattan.
It's also a strategy for RzaPizza in Jersey City.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, we know.
We know Dan, and it's in my, inmy neighborhood, but often if
I'm around there at five 30 whenthey open, I'm like, you know, I
can just walk in right now andI'll know I'll get a table and
it, and it's hard to get a tableotherwise.
Yeah, I mean, you know, ClementeBar is a reservation only place,
(05:09):
but literally it was, You know,a Monday and it was early and
gorgeous.
And they got us right ingorgeous space.
Gorgeous drinks.
Beautiful drinks, wellconceived, intelligent,
intelligent, bartenders who havebeen around, you know, so
they're not, it is certainly nottheir first job.
Yep.
Uh, it just was a great team.
Uh, not unexpectedly, you're in11 Madison Park.
(05:30):
Right, right, right.
Right's, you know, they were thenumber one restaurant in the, in
the country for a reason and.
the little bites of food we hadwere great.
Uh, and the cocktails wereintelligent and, and well-made.
And you know, the other thingthey did, uh, garnish.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Garnish, the garnish made sensewith the drink.
(05:51):
And there's so many places thatI see it must have a garnish.
And two of our drinks hadgarnishes and one of our drinks
did not have a garnish.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if a drink doesn't, if, ifthe garnish doesn't make the
drink better.
Then don't give it a garnish.
Yeah.
I, I love the one garnish theyhad on one of their drinks that
mm-hmm.
Was a, a, a bit of flavored ice.
(06:11):
Two of the ices were flavored.
Yep.
And as the ice and the bartenderexplained to us that as the ice
melts, it will impart adifferent flavor, which is gonna
change the character of thedrink right in front of you.
Anyway, a plus, love the room.
Love the space.
Go there.
Terrific.
Well, I just wanna mention, sothat the cocktail you had had a
bitter component in the ice thatas it melted Yep.
And.
(06:32):
First sip of that drink I didnot love.
Oh, yeah.
I that and as we got fartherinto the drink Yep.
You know, just three or fourminutes.
I mean, not, not, you know,Francis and I aren't gonna have
drinks for 35 minutes, uh, as wegot farther into the drink.
But as did we got that littlebit of melt.
Wonderful.
Yep.
Yep.
Really wonderful.
Uh, should we go on and talkabout Hawks more where we also
(06:52):
went for drinks?
Yeah, that was The Hawks Morewas really cool too.
That was a, a really lot ofstuff going on there and, and
Hawks More has had a change atthe head of its cocktail program
and you always worry.
Yeah.
When a, when a restaurant likethat, that's really known for
cocktails,, or some specificthing has a change at the helm
of that specific thing.
Yeah.
Jason Hernandez, Jason doing agreat job.
(07:14):
New guy.
He, he's created and I, and I'm,I don't know if I'm letting the
cat out of the bag here'causehe,'cause he let us into, he's
got this little whiskey clubthing going on where he's got
these rare and unusual bottles.
We got to have some old St.
Nick, which I, which okay.
I am not afraid, ashamed to sayI've never had before.
Yeah, right.
We had a 10-year-old, uh, and wehad a blend of seven to
(07:36):
30-year-old blend.
Yeah.
From old St.
Nick.
Really, really cool stuff.
There was a bunch of cool stuffon that shelf.
Yeah.
Uh, one of the things that youlove Waterford Yeah.
Was on his, his on a, on that,that special whiskey shelf.
So he's not just cocktails,he's, he's, he's spirits as well
in this whiskey club.
You don't have to like join oranything.
Right.
You just come in It's, he callsit the whiskey club and he has a
(07:56):
dedicated core group of guys whocome in, or men and women I
guess, who come in and drinkthese super high-end whiskeys
that you don't see anywhere.
Yep.
Uh, and we were very fortunatethat he sat with us.
And, uh, went over a few of thedifferent crazy whiskeys like
you just talked about.
Really knowledgeable, wonderfulstaff.
Love it.
They make a great martini.
Really, really happy with wellhawks more again, and they're
(08:17):
still making great cocktails andit's a wonderful steakhouse and
I think it's a, it's a coolplace.
Another originated in London,now is in New York, but, but
really a cool place.
Another A plus.
A plus, A plus.
Where else, where else you wannatalk about?
let's also talk about Joon.
Okay, so we'll just talk aboutthat quickly.
I know, uh, we're gonna haveRajesh on the show in just a
minute, but, a cool thing theydid was, uh, their cocktail menu
(08:40):
was by color.
Yeah.
You know, the old, remember theold fashioned, if it was by
color, it was just somethingcolored in the drink to, that
had no flavor, but they werevery purposeful.
That and the cocktail menu.
Beautiful.
It's beautiful.
It's one cocktail at a time thatyou would kind of turn over the
page.
It would be a, a beautiful highresolution, stylish picture of
the cocktail.
And he just named them aftercolor.
So it was the white cocktail,the black cocktail.
(09:01):
The red cocktail that The purplecocktail.
The yellow cocktail, absolutely.
But they were spectacularcocktails.
Yeah.
Great.
Great drinks.
Great drinks.
And they also did, I know we, wewent there at different times.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but they also did a, aflight of cocktails.
Mm-hmm.
It's like a four.
Um.
Individual cocktails that takeyou on a little journey.
And the presentation iswonderful.
Another A plus.
(09:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The three cool places we went toyesterday and, and one place
that that had good drinks, butthe atmosphere was not what we
were looking for.
And we will list those places inthe notes to this show.
And we're gonna have, uh, RajeshBarage who owns Jano on in just
a moment.
And we're gonna talk about howyou become a one Michelin star
restaurant.
(09:42):
The first Indian, one Michelinstar restaurant in the United
States.
Yeah.
Sit with us.
You're listening to theRestaurant.
Guys.
You can always find out moreabout
us@restaurantguyspodcast.com.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (09:54):
Hey there, everybody.
Welcome back.
Our guest today is Rajesh Baral.
He owns Jano Restaurant and hasowned it from the beginning.
I went there many, many yearsago when they first opened, and,
just went back recently.
It's a groundbreaking Indianrestaurant.
They're the only Indianrestaurant in America with a
Michelin star, and they deserveevery point on that star, and we
couldn't be happier to welcome,Rajesh to the show today.
(10:15):
Rajesh, welcome to the show.
So happy to have you here.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (10:18):
Happy to be here on it.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (10:20):
You know, I read a lot about your
work and obviously everybodyknows Jan.
I decided in preparation forthis show, I would do the
selfless work of get, takingmyself out to a five course
dinner at your place.
And, it was really fantastic.
Can you tell our listeners whomay not be familiar with Jano,
like what it is and what itbrought to New York for the
(10:40):
first time?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (10:42):
Well, I'm in the food and beverage,
business and I came in thiscountry in 1990.
so before I got in Jul, I haveto give a little background of
what the evolution of Indianfood has been like, a journey in
New York, what I've seen, when Icame in 35 years ago.
There were a couple of Indianrestaurant, maybe two, three,
and I came as an immigrant andlike every immigrant went to
(11:03):
the, hotbed of where Indianswere, Queens, Jackson Heights.
And that's where I started and Ihad opened my first restaurant
there.
I had no clue.
Honestly.
I had, been to this country likefirst time I came in 86, 87,
just as a visitor, for a week orso.
And, went back and I had neverthought of coming to New York
(11:23):
and settling And my, one of mydad's friends were very keen
that, let's open a restauranthere.
I said, okay, let me see.
And 90 when I came.
Well, now when I think back,it's very stupid of me to just
jump into opening a restaurantwithout going and working
somewhere, understanding howthings are done in a different
part of the world.
But anyway, I started and that'sbeen the journey.
(11:44):
So that restaurant was for aboutfour years, five years, very
successful.
Being lucky enough to be, youknow, it was probably, I would
say third or the fourth Indianrestaurant at that time.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (11:57):
The third Indian restaurant in New
York City.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (11:59):
In New York City, probably.
Yes.
You know, so the, the and, andqueens.
This was, probably the secondrestaurant, which, opened way
back in 90, right?
So, you know, started, uh, andthen very successful, but I kind
of, you know, was not very
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (12:16):
So.
So the, the, the Indianrestaurants, I, I recall when I
first lived in New York andbecame an adult here in New
Jersey, it was the kind of foodthat you were as likely to take
home with you as you order todine in the restaurant.
And it was all inexpensive andit was all no liquor license.
you have a wine state, wineSpectator, best of award of
excellence, same as we do.
(12:36):
what kind of restaurant was thisthat you opened in Queens And
what was the environment overall
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (12:41):
uh, you know, like I said, I was not
very aware of what's to be done,but Indian food wasn't, you
know, there as much.
at that point in time, actually,you know, what you are referring
to is that street, which, had alot of Indian restaurants they
were you.
run by the people fromBangladesh, Pakistan, India's
all together and naming it, youknow, as Indian cuisine,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (12:59):
Yes.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (13:00):
the beginning of, uh, Indian food is
very humble.
most of the immigrants who camein thought, okay.
I can cook good food, my wifecan cook good food.
Let's open a restaurant.
And that's how it started,which, paved the way for people
like us to come in years laterto, build on that.
But, that was the starting pointof, Indian food anywhere even in
London years ago.
it started like that.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26-2 (13:21):
I think that people really don't
realize that.
It was so kind of Frenchcentric.
And even when the contemporaryAmerican movement started in the
early nineties, everything stillleaned towards that very
European style restaurant forhigh end.
You're right.
for when people were talkingabout Michelin restaurant or
they were talking about, youknow, four star restaurant.
(13:43):
That's what they were talkingabout.
Well, and just to provide alittle more context about what
Marc Mark is saying, I rememberwhen, they opened Moishe down.
Town.
and they were going for threestars.
it was revolutionary.
'cause they're like, youprobably have to be French And
you can't be below 14th Street.
You were not in the rightneighborhood for sure.
Just neighborhood alone mighttake you out.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (14:03):
Yeah, so it was, like I said, there
was not much Indian food, so Istarted, but I had a background.
I worked, back home in one ofthe largest, hotel group called,
Taj Group.
it's called Indian NoodleCompany Limited, the largest.
huddle chain luxury brand inIndia, and I was the food and
beverage manager.
So I came with my own ideas andI, you know, started, but
obviously you need the rightaudience to accept.
(14:24):
Sometimes you fail because youwant to do too much, and you
know, people are already readyto accept that as well, you
know, so it was, a small Indianrestaurant.
Maybe you're 40 seat.
serving primarily North Indianfood.
That's what people are familiarwith that time, you know, add a
little bar and, and, whatnot.
The only unique thing I did wasI was the first guy to start
Indian Suites in this country.
(14:45):
was not a single vendor and Iwas the first one to do that.
And we were shipping Indiansuites all over the country
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (14:52):
So were the client, were the
clients to your restaurant, werethey mostly.
Indian people or people ofIndian extraction or.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26 (15:01):
Indians who were working in the
neighborhood or living in theneighborhood, and that was
actually that nineties onwards.
It was like kind of a littleblast as India started pouring
in and coming in and settling.
And you know, would come onweekends, you'll surprise.
There was no Indian restaurantin Philadelphia.
There was no restaurantrestaurant in Long Island.
There was no Indian restaurantin Jersey.
(15:21):
There was no Indian restaurant,in uh Connecticut.
So people would come on weekend.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (15:26):
Wow.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (15:27):
only one store which would supply
Indian, groceries.
So that would be their trip tocome to Jackson Heights to do
their Indian groceries, and thenhave an Indian meal or pack an
Indian meal and go from there.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (15:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (15:40):
So that was what 74th Street,
Jackson Heights was.
And, you know, it's successful.
But, you know, later on I sawthat my entire, you know,
audience had shifted becausegradually people started moving
out.
There were more influx ofIndians in that area than
anything else.
And, I was one day thinking, Isaid, listen man, I came to this
country.
I really want to, my passion isto showcase Indian cuisine, you
(16:02):
know, and it's been verymisrepresented.
People would think it to beoily, spicy, cheap food, you
know, pretty much like an ethnicor a mindset is, about it.
But I said, that's not what itis.
I started looking for places inNew York.
I said The only way I think Ican be able to bring Indian food
to the mainstream would be if Imoved to New York City,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (16:24):
In Manhattan.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (16:24):
When I came, I did not know what
uptown means
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (16:26):
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025_ (16:28):
I hardly bent outta means I did
not trade.
I remember a friend of mine wasdrove from, you know, Boston and
he came, he says, we are goingto go and have, you know, find
dining Indian food in the city.
There was one restaurant calledDawa, you know, on 58.
I said, okay.
you know, you're alwaysambitious.
I said, I wanna open in thecity.
And I started looking for placesit took me quite some years, you
(16:50):
know, and I would say, I 90, Icame, I opened this place, and,
95, I sold this business withoutrealizing that I have to start
something before I sell the damnthing.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (17:02):
Right.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (17:03):
You know, there was nobody to guide
me, so I sold about a year and ahalf, two years.
I sat at home doing nothing andburning money, looking for
places in, in, in New York to,open a restaurant.
I met a gentleman, like, I toldyou the fine dining restaurant.
When I went to Dine, luckily methim he was introduced to me with
(17:23):
a friend of mine and, startedgetting into a conversation.
I gave him some idea.
I said, I wanna do, restaurant.
He says, oh, my restaurant isthe number one.
And no doubt their restaurantwas the number one Indian
restaurant at that point intime.
in the country, you would havepeople like Bill Gates dine
there, Jackson once booked theentire restaurant dine there.
So it was what the restaurantwas, and I said, no, my idea is
(17:43):
very different.
he was very surprised.
He says, are you crazy?
Nobody's going to come and eat.
I said, listen, if you're not, Ilearned this, you know,
statement often used.
If you build it, they'll come.
You
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (17:53):
Yeah,
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26- (17:53):
famous movie
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (17:54):
so wait, lemme stop you right
there, because that was, that'sone of the things that.
Before you didn't really happen.
You said, I want to have a barand I want to sell nice wine.
And then when the cocktailmovement happened, you embraced
cocktails that that was a breakfor Indian restaurants in
America, wasn't it?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (18:11):
That was in the, that was in June.
I would say when we come toJune, I'll tell you the story of
how it started and why I did,this, so this was, so, my
learning was at that time, whatfine dining meant was you put a
nice tablecloth, have betterlights, have a menu, which has
like, you open in three pages,like on and on and on.
It'll go, you have like 10, youknow, lamb dishes, 10 goat
(18:31):
dishes, 10 this and that.
You know, I said, what the heck,what's going on here?
You basically have two saucesand you're dumping food in
there, and that's what you'redoing.
You know, and calling yourselffine dining, what a shame.
Indian food is much more, like Isaid, very few professionals
were in this business.
They were mostly, people who arefamily,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (18:47):
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26 (18:47):
they're not professionals, they don't
know.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (18:49):
Right.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (18:49):
They would give you, they'll say,
okay, we'll give you wines andwe'll give
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (18:53):
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26- (18:53):
you'll make your wine menu,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (18:55):
That still happens here in New Jersey
quite a bit.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (18:57):
and my learning was that okay, you
know, I think, there is a, whatwe do is very different than
what people perceive Indian foodto be.
I wanted to go fine dining, butwhen I started doing my little,
you know, research and askingpeople around, people could not
point India on the map of theworld.
I'm talking about non-Indians,right?
my goal was to promote Indianfood to the, mainstream American
(19:20):
crowd and not the Indian, Istarted thinking, what could,
what can I do to change that?
I said, you know what, let's notrisk it and open a, big fine
dining restaurant.
I want to do something, which,makes them feel welcome to try
the food, you know, I'm
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (19:35):
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26- (19:35):
about.
And then on university, on 11thStreet, I found a location, and,
It's a small place.
It used to be, I believe, aKorean fruit shop on a deli.
We went a business and, youknow, I took the lease, started
building.
you know, in my mind I'm sayingokay, the architect has not,
cannot be Indian.
I want someone to bring inideas.
(19:56):
I used to go out and dine, youknow, Mediterranean cafes or you
know, you go to an Italianbistro or a French bistro, the
word bistro.
So I said, why can't we have anIndian bistro?
You
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (20:06):
Yeah.
So what, so what year do we openCafe Spice?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (20:09):
98.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (20:10):
98.
And how is it received by NewYork?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (20:13):
So it changed the entire of Indian
dining would call, if you goback and do a little research of
Indian food.
it received every possibleaccolade you can think of.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (20:23):
Wow.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (20:23):
it was a six 70 seat restaurant and
we would do 250 dinners a night,irrespective of a Monday or a
Sunday, or a Saturday or aFriday,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (20:33):
Yep.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (20:33):
know, it was like that.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (20:34):
and so what ha I mean, back then the
publications mattered more thanthey do now.
It wasn't all about Yelp review.
So what did the publications,what did the Gale Green say?
What did the New York Times say?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (20:46):
New York Times never reviewed the
restaurant.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (20:49):
Well, you were,
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (20:50):
never reviewed, it was like$25 average
check.
I believe Eric Smo would write,right?
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (20:55):
Yeah, did Eric write about your.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (20:56):
you know, major publications would
write and, and that time rightwhen we were opening Cafe Spice,
tabla, which is now 11 Madison,the same spot table was opening
at that.
I mean, I remember Danny Ma andMichael Romano used to come and
dine
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (21:11):
Oh yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (21:11):
You
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (21:12):
that's great.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (21:12):
in there and have food at,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (21:14):
we were very good friends with
Floyd Cardo, who was a greatman.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (21:17):
Great guy.
so, yes, absolutely.
So Floyd, you know, he wasopening tabla at that time and,
you know, tabla opened after, usChicago Spice actually became a
cult following, I would say,grand Center was being built at
that time.
They approached us, they said,open an outlet here, which was
way back in two, maybe 99 or weopened a, you know.
Changed it and made, made alittle quick service model of
(21:38):
the Cafe Spice there, and thenwe expanded that brand into
Philadelphia, into Marylandinto, you know, multiple
locations.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (21:45):
so you have Cafe Spice, but what's
happening in the, country atthat point, certainly in the,
cities like Manhattan, is peopleare beginning to embrace ethnic
foods.
that they could be elevated,that they could be brought to
fine dining, that they could bebrought to another level.
Like you said, you had FloydCaro at Tabla, you had Mario
(22:07):
Vital, opening Del Post though.
You had, Scott Conant openingAlto.
So all that, the early twothousands, There's this movement
to restaurants that could, thatwe're trying to show that ethnic
foods from all around the world.
It didn't have to be Frenchfocused.
It didn't have to be,
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-2 (22:25):
Correct.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (22:25):
you know, this certain type of
restaurant.
And it could still be elevatedand it could still be a
wonderful dining experience.
Yeah.
And it still could be a fourstar or Michelin 1, 2, 3 star.
I see the enthusiasm with whichyou're saying that, and as if
you're like, wow, this is, butrealize that many of our
listeners, our younger listenersare never gonna understand that
Before that time it was Frenchrestaurants above 14th Street
(22:48):
where all that was consideredfine dining Correct.
So that that changes.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (22:51):
so the reason we did a cafe by
style model, like a, you know,upscale, I would say casual, but
still casual because I wanted toinvite.
I didn't want to do like ahundred dollars meal or a$80
meal or$75 Indian meal.
Nobody would've paid and peopledid not know Indian food, as
much.
But that kind of, slowlychanged.
And so that expanded, very well.
(23:12):
And now I started thinking, howcome the journey of June and I
was, thinking, Hmm, now I thinkI can go and fulfill my dream of
doing a real good fine diningIndian restaurant.
started thinking on those lines.
Uh, in 2005, I think first timeI received was in my head in
2007.
It, I kind of got the idea aboutfortified because that time
(23:34):
Indian economy had opened up.
So mostly Fortune 500 companiesstarted going to India.
The economy had opened up verywell.
So there was a lot of travel, alot of this thing, the awareness
of Indian food had started with.
I would say, the mainstreamAmericans.
Okay.
And I was saying, I said, now isthe time I think we can do a
fine dining Indian restaurant.
(23:54):
And when I say fine dining, Imean let's, the conversation
used to be, you know, a friendof mine called me.
this will highlight the, youknow, what I'm going to say.
He called me, says Rajesh, I'vegot 10 CEOs.
From India.
They're visiting and I'm hostingthem.
He used to have a hedge fund youknow, last night I would like to
take them, they're all Indiansand I would like to take them to
(24:17):
a good Indian meal, you know,really wine peering and
cocktails and this and that, andgood.
You know, I told him, I said,listen.
And he was telling me hisbudget, you know, which was un,
you know, people would go andspend at an Italian or French
restaurant and that they wouldsay, my budget is spending,
like, I can go 300,$400 aperson.
I said, even if you try it, youwon't find an Indian restaurant
(24:39):
which can bill you that much.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (24:40):
So you built one.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025_ (24:41):
I said, you are here longer than
me.
Which restaurant is there?
I said, that's the bestrestaurant right now.
Even if you go there, you can dowhatever the hell you want.
You can have the most expensivewines there.
you cannot build that, thatexperience is not there.
So he ultimately told me, and Ibooked him, like you said,
surprisingly Mario Vital, Ibooked him, del.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (24:59):
Right.
Sure.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (25:03):
Made me think.
I said, so I would, I startedworking on it and then my wife
asked me, you want 15restaurants, cafe Spices were
13.
And then we, I just built a bigcommissary.
We were supplying food to WholeFoods with a partner.
why the hell do you wanna openanother restaurant and take
this?
Big headache.
I said, listen, you know, Ithink Indian food has to reach
that level that there's amazingcuisine.
(25:25):
It's so diverse.
this thing has not been exploredand this myth of scotch and beer
works with Indian food is veryBritish thought.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (25:32):
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (25:33):
are wines work very fantastic.
There are things which will workvery fantastic there.
I think there is a potential, Imay not know, I'm not master at,
making a good cocktail or,understanding a lot of wines,
but I said I can build a team.
Which can, you know, I know thefood part and I can build a
team.
We can, you know,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (25:49):
Right.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (25:50):
build something, you
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (25:51):
And again, you have this moment in
time where you have both thecreative minds like yours.
Which are saying, Hey, I havethis cuisine.
I have the ability to presentyou something that's special and
extraordinary.
And you have the public saying,you know what?
I do want something different.
I'm ready to experiment.
I'm ready to go outside mycomfort zone and try some things
(26:13):
that maybe are a little moreinteresting or a little
different than what I ate mywhole life.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (26:18):
Yeah, so my whole, my education, like
I told you, I came in 90, Ididn't study here.
I didn't work for anyone.
So I said, how do I educatemyself?
And so my biggest expense wouldbe.
Going out twice a week to go anddine out.
So my bills would come at theend of the year where I would
say you spent 50 grand, don'thave a lot of money.
That was, you know, spending innineties to that kinda money.
(26:38):
I didn't
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (26:39):
Yep.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26- (26:39):
money.
Okay.
That's my education,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (26:41):
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08- (26:41):
education fund.
I think nothing like learningfrom there.
So what I learned was that infood I can do what else is there
in a conversation When 10 peopleare sitting and they want to go
and have Indian, you know, whydo they don't go?
I should.
Work backwards.
Ambience service style, a greatcocktail program, a great vine
(27:04):
program.
These all elements are missingin Indian food.
Food, yes, you can do, that'sone part.
One of the other parts, youknow, that is why they would go
to Italian is Italian.
You can have good pasta andother restaurants, you don't
have to go to Del Post store.
Right.
So example, but you go forentire experience part of
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (27:21):
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (27:21):
you know,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (27:21):
So talk to us about getting Jano
open and what that was like andwhat people found when they went
in there, and the team you puttogether to make it happen.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (27:28):
Yeah, so I made my mission statement
saying, I want to open arestaurant that serves Indian
food, not an Indian restaurant.
And people didn't understanduntil I made them explain what
it is.
and then I started looking for,a site which had to be, you
know, you have been to the firstrestaurant you've never seen
Indian restaurant.
10,000 square foot high ceilings
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (27:45):
It was amazing.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (27:46):
Yeah.
So, to build that was theenvironment or the style part of
it, or
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (27:50):
Yep.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (27:50):
part of it
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (27:51):
And what, what year is this that you
opened?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_0 (27:54):
officially, or 2011, January to opened.
But we did friends and familyDecember of the second week of
December, 2010, And, that's whenit, it.
Mark (28:04):
well, and in 2012,, you weren't a Michelin star
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (28:06):
Yes.
And then we had it for eightconsecutive years till the
pandemic hit,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (28:11):
Well, so I remember, when you first
opened, because it had been somegreat bar before you had, that
space had been a bar before youopened there.
But then a friend of mine, a guynamed Scott Carney was your
opening wine director.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025_ (28:22):
I said, building the team, I said
now I really wanna build a team.
I wanna bring in a team.
And honestly, I was not focusingon.
To get a Michelin or get stars.
think these things come if youdo things with a passion and do
right way, this is all thebyproduct of things done, right.
So I said get a team.
So I hired a GM who had workedwith Alan, had worked with the,
(28:43):
at that time he was working withthe poster, so he was their
operation manager.
So I got him, he was my gm.
He actually brought in ScottKearney.
I couldn't afford Scott Kearney.
Scott Kearney used to work at,Gotham Bar and Drill.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (28:54):
Yes.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (28:54):
was gm.
And so, I'll put in why Scottjoined.
You know, obviously he had theability, he is one of the first
few, my master songs at thattime, only time.
And, uh, I was having a cup ofcoffee with him in Starbucks and
you know, my gm, Robin said, yougo and talk to him because I, I
said my budget, this is no way,man.
He's making already more thanwhat you're offering.
(29:15):
I said, he can't do that.
So I sat with him, I spoke.
And in the conversation, I thinkI read what Scott, wanted.
Scott wanted to basically getinto academics in few years, two
years or so.
He says, I'm tired of, you know,kind of working the floor, doing
the list, doing all that.
I got a couple of years left andI want to go into teaching and
doing things and whatnot, what Iwanted to do.
(29:36):
So then I said, that gave me,you know, like a hook.
I said, Scott, it works rightFor right for you to come and
accept what I want I'm doing.
I said, listen.
A lot of beverage directors canmake a great wine list for an
Italian restaurant, for a Frenchrestaurant for this.
But that's been done.
It is already there.
To come and do it for an Indianrestaurant would be a challenge.
And I think you put the listtogether, it'll give the whole
(29:58):
project and the casino.
And you are the one who doing itand you know, kind of give that
thought that wine work workswith Indian food done.
Right.
Right.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (30:06):
even from the outset of bringing him
on board, bringing in a masterpsalm, like him with his
prestige and, you know, we knewhim personally because he just,
he's so knowledgeable abouteverything.
And it was, I remember thinking,Scott Carney's gonna do the
wines at an Indian restaurant.
I have to go.
And that was that.
I had dinner there that nightwith a woman who was studying
(30:28):
for her master of wine degree.
'cause we were like, we gottasee this.
Mm-hmm.
And so it really did make a hugedifference.
And it was great.
It was a great list.
He was, and he was on the floorselling us wine.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (30:37):
Yeah.
so we had three songs at thattime.
this was all the part of theexperience, so that was the
whole buildup.
And then, you know, New YorkTimes came and, you know,
fantastic review.
They gave us it.
We got a two star review, whichread like a three, you
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (30:49):
Yep.
Yep.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (30:50):
us to Del Post,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (30:50):
they used to do that all the time.
Like you could tell thatsomebody really wanted it to be
a three star review, but theywould make it two stars.
And sometimes if they madesomething a three star that was
just barely a three star, thereview would be a little worse.
Sometimes it was better to get atwo star review that was glowing
than a three star review wherethey were knocking you down a
(31:12):
pack.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-2 (31:12):
actually you are correct.
So my peer company said you gota glowing your singing review
two star, which is betterbecause even if you read a three
star review somewhere, they willtalk about whether a dessert or
whether one appetizer orsomething like that is missed
the point.
Miss the mark missed somethingin here.
There was nothing you would talkabout to miss the mark, you
know?
So it then came the Michelin,which I least expected, to be
(31:34):
honest, So then it, that was thejourney.
And we've been there 15 yearsnow, but we don't, sit on our
past laurels and the, we neverhad a testing menu in the
beginning.
If you go now, I believe you dida testing menu, which we keep
changing.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (31:46):
Mark and I talk about tasting menus
all the time because in our, wehave two restaurants.
Our fine dining restaurant, weopened in 92, and then by the
end of the nineties, all therestaurants were tasting menu
only.
Right.
So we always had an a la carteoption.
Mm-hmm.
But we leaned heavily on thetasting menu and then we kind of
lament how they became sounfashionable and, but so it.
They are, seem to be making abit of a resurgence as an
(32:08):
option.
And I, I went to your restaurantwith my cousin and his
girlfriend and we were thrilledto say, oh my God, we'll take
the five course, you know, sendus wine pairings.
Well, I think that a menu likeyours lends itself more to a
tasting menu because one of theproblems that a restaurant like
ours has is so much of it isfamiliar, right.
It's already formulated theiropinions about what they like
(32:29):
and what they don't like in ourcuisines.
So if there's something on thetasting menu that they don't
like, they're like, okay, Ican't do the tasting menu.
'cause course number seven inthe 16 course tasting menu is
something I don't care for.
But when you look at a, acuisine like yours, where, where
for a lot of people it'll beless familiar.
Maybe I'm more willing because.
(32:51):
I don't, I don't know this food.
I wanna experience as much of itas I can anyway.
Well, and I don't know what thehell I'm doing so you can guide
me.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (32:57):
Yeah.
But, our menu besides tasting,if you look at our menu
structure, You can't dotechnically a la car.
You call you, we call it threecourse, four courses and
tasting.
That's what it is.
But testing is, you see thecourses, whereas when we call
three and four courses.
you can choose from the a la carand make your course yourself,
But it's no, yeah, it's nosharing.
that was one of the issues.
We had a lot of problem, solvingand we said, okay, this is how
(33:18):
we are gonna do.
Five people come, they ordertheir main, they can share if
they like, but they're gonna beX mains,
the-restaurant-guys_2_0 (33:24):
Mm-hmm.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (33:24):
apps and then, these days people
don't take dessert.
So with that option, we left it.
We said, okay, it could be athree, four fourth.
Fourth is your dessert if youdon't want,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (33:33):
so what was the problem you found
yourself with sharing as, as arestaurant that just.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (33:37):
so this, this is, you know, I'll
tell you in Indian, so I'mtalking like from absolutely
like a business sense of point,right?
Indian food perception issharing.
Share.
when people walk in, I would,and you know, I would say mostly
from Southeast Asia, our countryand this and that.
We are very used to eating,shared, you know, and they would
(33:59):
come in, now they're sittingthere, eight people.
And I would see that thishappened a lot and lot.
the-restaurant-guys_2_0 (34:03):
Mm-hmm.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (34:04):
Of time, eight people will come in
order appetizers share or orderthree or four beans
the-restaurant-guys_2_0 (34:09):
Mm-hmm.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (34:12):
you know, the cuisine lends itself
like you can fill yourself ifyou wanna do that way, order
three or four main and order alot of breads, rice, this and
that.
when we are looking at anaverage check you are doing.
300 covers in my previousrestaurant.
This is a smaller one.
And we look at our sale and say,man, what is our average check?
How do we, you can't keep incase your prices.
That's not gonna work.
So I said, let's change thestyle of the menu.
(34:33):
and we are probably the onlyIndian restaurant who does this,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (34:36):
And did you get a lot of pushback
when you did that?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (34:38):
Oh, they, oh hell of a lot.
We did get, we did get, we didget, and we still, you know, I
still see, sometimes I'll see aone star review and I, when I
read it, I say, what the heck?
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26-2 (34:48):
I will tell you, when I see a one
star review, and it's written bysomebody who is just not my
customer for whatever reason,they're just not my customer.
They don't want what I'moffering, and I don't have what
they want.
I just kind of put that aside.
it, it does not inform what I'mgonna do tomorrow when I see a
one star review and I'm like,oh, that shouldn't have
(35:09):
happened.
Oh, that was not the way Iintended it.
Well, that will change the way Ido things.
But a one star review for that,that is not related to something
I want to do is, a one starreview where I say to Mark, they
left out the part where youthrew them out of the
restaurant.
it's like crazy, you know?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26- (35:26):
People will come in and they'll argue
in the front.
We say, listen, you made areservation.
The moment you make areservation, your text goes out,
confirmation goes out, talksabout the dress policy, child
policy.
You didn't bother read it.
and we offer them, you know, youcan dine outdoors.
It's nicely done outdoors.
You can have kids sit there andenjoy, but we don't allow.
Instead they would boom,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (35:45):
Yeah, and I wanna say it's funny when
people push back on that,because we had a problem before
the pandemic.
we had a group of people whowould come in, it was one group
of friends, and they'd make areservation for.
9, 12, 13 people, and they'd belike 15 minutes before we closed
every night, and they wouldorder five entrees among them.
And I remember we instituted apolicy because of this group,
(36:08):
and it went out in the text whenyou made your reservation.
We said, just so you know, it'sone entree per person.
And they were outraged.
I had a long conversation with'em, like, how dare you do that?
I'm like, this isn't a library.
And I got, you don't have to eatit, you just have to pay for it,
you know, but There's a pointwhere to make it worthwhile and
for the waiters to make aliving, you've gotta have a
minimum amount of money coming.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (36:29):
And then, well, I guess everything
is, uh, changing.
I think people are also gettingvery, knowledgeable about
things.
You can't please everybody, asyou say, there's so many people
come in and out of the doorthat, we try our best sometimes,
we may fall short, you
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (36:41):
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (36:41):
but we are ever evolving.
We learn from mistakes.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (36:43):
We try to learn from our mistakes.
Sometimes we do them over andover and over again.
So lemme ask you a question.
the food that I had was amazing.
I mean, just straight onthrough.
Amazing, perfect.
The cocktails were amazing.
and your front of house peoplewere extraordinary.
They truly were.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (37:00):
you.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (37:00):
mean really, really a great cadra of
people.
But the food that you serve, towhat extent is that food that
you will find in India and towhat extent is it very fine
dining, creative food that isyour inspired by food that you'd
find in India?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (37:18):
See there are, I would say, a lot of
dishes you are, it means if yougo to India, you'll find that
dish.
But with, is it presented thatway?
No.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (37:27):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (37:28):
that style?
No.
you know, let's say if, likethere's a dish, we have
something called duck telecherry pepper
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (37:35):
Yep.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (37:35):
this, and, you know, our genome
kitchen is, I would say, and I,I consciously made this effort.
To change it way back in 12 or13 when I opened that I want, a
lot of chefs who are non-Indianand people are surprised.
What the heck are you talkingabout?
And you'll be surprised to knowthree of my executive chefs have
been non-Indians.
one of them came from Alan d AlDugas.
(37:57):
one of them came from, hadworked with John Ramsey, you
know, and they were nothingIndian.
And the reason I had them washow to elevate the presentation
of food and come up with ideas.
I saw, I would call, you know,chef Traditional and Chef
Modern, that
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (38:12):
Right.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (38:13):
We had given them, you know,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (38:14):
Oh, that's great.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (38:14):
we one because, so I, and this is a
very, duck, tele cherry pepper,elli, cherry pepper, ous, or
dish comes from there.
the-restaurant-guys_2_0 (38:21):
Mm-hmm.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (38:21):
the duck texture is very different
than chicken texture.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (38:24):
Yes.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (38:25):
Duck is mostly, you can do like a
steak.
You don't do your temp.
You know, you, you do.
It's not done the way it isdone.
So if you go and eat there, it'snot the same.
we were doing the same way,which was done in India because
that's what I, my chef weredoing till I, hired this chef
one day all tells me.
boss, can I redo this dish?
I said how he said, just tellyour guy to make the sauce.
(38:47):
Don't bother about the, the,about the duck part.
I'll do the duck.
Let him do the, sauce, because Idon't know the sauce.
let him make the sauce.
So I did.
I said, fine.
So he orders a duck.
I believe he ordered a Normandydeduct.
He aged it, you know, two weeks,which is still due.
And, uh, then he, takes thebreast rendering his own fat and
no, no, it's not an Indiantechnique.
It's a pretty, very Frenchtechnique.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (39:08):
Yep.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (39:08):
that
the-restaurant-guys_2_0 (39:09):
Mm-hmm.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26 (39:09):
sliced, sliced it and put it on top of
the sauce.
That's what the presentation, ifI send you a picture, you'll
see, I don't know if you tastedthat dish.
It's, we call duck chilies,pepper, and I cannot take it off
the menu.
It's
the-restaurant-guys_2_0 (39:20):
Mm-hmm.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (39:21):
take it
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (39:21):
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (39:22):
so now it's marrying off.
You know, people often sayconfused that, okay, you are
you, you're trying to do finedining.
Are you fusion?
I said, no, I'm not fusion.
Yes, we are fusion, but not oftradition or of flavors.
We are fusion of technique.
You know, you can, you can adaptdifferent techniques because
like, what is the tul?
(39:43):
Tul is tan, ur is basically anoven.
When 405 years, a hundred yearsago, there was no.
and it came from Iran and youknow, the Persia where they
should bake breads and do allthis thing like in oven.
There were no ovens.
So these are, now you have ovensyou don't have to use,
necessarily use it and do, youdon't have to grill things.
So you have modern equipment,modern techniques, which you can
(40:04):
adapt and make the foodactually.
Much better in, you know, yourtexture, your taste, your
flavor, your presentation so youcan adapt that, you know, and
don't have to follow that.
So this is something we, we doin-house and that's what the,
it's a chef's take on what ourmenu would
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26- (40:21):
So talk to us about who is your
chef now?
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (40:24):
It's very, JI happens to be my
understand.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26-2 (40:28):
I knew that.
to.
I knew that.
So tell us about your son.
The.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (40:31):
So I honestly, never wanted him to
be a chef.
I never thought he'd be a chef.
A very pampered young kid.
my wife would make him breakfastin bed.
He would get everything, youknow, pretty.
I said, this guy can't even, thebest thing I do is make a cup of
tea for us.
You know, sometimes that's aboutit.
Nothing else.
And then, you know, he goes tocollege.
He was in, the Rutgers and thenmoved to, in the city.
And then, my wife tells me, youknow, it's summer vacation.
(40:52):
Why do you put him at work?
I said, listen, I'm not runninga mom pop show.
You know, it's a restaurant.
just, because he's your son,you're telling me put him to
work, what work he's gonna do.
See, otherwise he's gonna sit athome and play video games.
His friends are gonna come, andthat's what they're doing
Summer.
Let him do something.
I said, okay.
So I spoke to my gm.
I said, he says, okay, radi,we'll figure it out.
He is a good looking young kid.
Let's train him and let him putin the front desk and he'll work
(41:14):
with the, he can, he can besmart enough to understand table
numbers and go and hand a menuand see people.
Right?
So that's how he started.
He started, he got bored, he gotfed up.
he would watch the bar and he'sseeing a lot of interaction
happening at the bar.
He thought bar is a big scene.
You know, you chat, you do.
He said, I wanna work at thebar.
I said, you don't know a damnwhat?
A bar.
You can't work at the bar.
But anyway, I spoke to our barmanager, I said, he says, okay,
(41:35):
sure, let's, let's put into thegrind.
All he did was wiping glasses.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (41:38):
right.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025 (41:39):
is called working at the bar.
then he went to the kitchenthere.
I don't know what clicked.
He started from onion peeling.
He never went to culinaryschool, but he started picking
up and he started working withall the chefs.
And then he self-taught, hewent, he traveled, he, you know,
did a lot of stuff.
you know, when uh, my last chef,O has owns AKA now and was
(41:59):
leaving to open his ownrestaurant.
He told me, you know, I wasstill looking for a chef.
He was a sous chef already afterabout six years or so, he
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (42:07):
Yep.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (42:08):
chef,
the-restaurant-guys_2_0 (42:08):
Mm-hmm.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26 (42:09):
through the ranks.
And you know, he told me, hesaid, boss, don't look for, I
think he's ready.
I said, and I said, uh, are you,are you serious?
You think he'll be able to takethe responsibility?
He says, I think he, you give achance he'll be able to do that.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08- (42:20):
Well, it's hard to get distracted when
the tickets are piling up inyour face, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2025_ (42:25):
I think he's been the exactly chef
now for, I would say six years.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26 (42:31):
You heard that I was there at the
end of the meal.
'cause you came up.
Said hello, but you guys didn'tknow who I was when I dined
there.
Your pastry chef came out, yourson came out and talked about
the dishes and that he's aself-taught chef.
With that sort of, the preciseand careful nature of that menu,
that's, congratulations to him.
It's really, really amazingstuff.
Rajesh, the clock on the wallsays, uh, our time is coming to
(42:53):
an end.
it's been fascinating talkingwith you and thank you for Jan
Noon.
I, I intend to go back realsoon.
really cool place that, we lovetalking to people who change the
landscape, right?
that's one of our favoritethings to do when we're
interviewing somebody, issomebody who, made things
different.
And Jano is one of thoserestaurants that just made
things different.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (43:11):
Thank you and you guys should come and
try the other one, which is theEast village.
It opened a year and a half ago.
That is the, what I call soulfulof India.
That's no pretenses.
That's the way we grew up eatingthe streets, on the road I
brought some of the legendary.
eating places of India, knownfor one or two dishes, and
they're there for the fourthgeneration a hundred years.
(43:31):
120 years.
So I said, instead of travelingthe country, why don't I make a
menu and bring the dishes oneoff and do a menu and people eat
under one roof.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-26-2 (43:41):
I love it.
that's beautiful.
But you need to understand thatFrancis and I love pretenses.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (43:45):
Yeah.
No, I know, but I, I, I believe,believe you me, there's a friend
of mine who started the MichelinGuide in this country.
I didn't know her that time, butshe resigned 25 years in
Michelin.
She came two weeks ago and I wastelling her I come tired just by
like, you know, she said, okay.
She came and she was like blownaway, and after that she's come
three times on her own,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (44:05):
tell us the name and the website for
the new place.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-20 (44:07):
It's called J-A-Z-B-A.
Juba.
It makes, it means same Jan.
Passion and Juba also meanspassion with emotion, you know,
so it's an East Village whereOld Maku was the first Maku,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (44:19):
Great.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26- (44:20):
corner of 13 and second Avenue.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (44:22):
Great,
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-202 (44:23):
JBA and NYC let me know when you're
coming and this time I'll meetyou in person.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08 (44:27):
great.
rajesh-bhardwaj_3_08-26-2 (44:27):
about the dishes.
the-restaurant-guys_ (44:28):
Excellent.
We'll see you there soon.
so you heard it here first.
We'll be back in just a moment.
You're listening to therestaurant, guys.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-2 (45:01):
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back.
Uh, I have to tell you, thatmeal was great.
the tuna puka.
That was a mm-hmm.
Cilantro, purry puff, um, withchat masala, caviar and, tuna in
it.
it was, it was, this was.
Beautiful, delicate little puff.
And that stuff was all insideit, like a little purse, but
crunchy.
Mm-hmm.
And then it had a warm kind of,you could drink it or you could
(45:22):
pour it in the puff'cause it waswaterproof and then you put the
whole puff in your mouth andwent inside your mouth.
Well one of the things he talkedabout off the air with us was
that pushka is a traditionally avegetarian dish, right?
Yeah.
and one of the things he's donein his restaurant is he
introduced an ingredient.
Like tuna to it.
Yeah.
And caviar.
Right.
Okay.
So I, I often say my favoriteuse for vegetarian cuisine is as
(45:44):
a base for meat.
But, but you know, that's,that's kind of what I, I think
where this restaurant has goneto, right?
It's taken some of thesetraditional methods and
ingredients and sauces and, and,and.
Created this amalgam, but notfusion cuisine.
Okay.
It's not fusion cuisine.
(46:05):
You know, it's, it's funny, whenI asked that question, I
realized that there's alimitation to even the way to
frame the question because Yes,it you, any good restaurant in
any area in India, it's not likeIndian cuisine is frozen in
India.
Right.
It's if a great restaurant inIndia will.
Evolve, right.
Update, take the recipes thatthey have, and there will be new
(46:25):
things done to it in the nextiteration.
Mm-hmm.
And so that's, you know, that's,I think that's fascinating what
that line is.
one of, one of the things hetalked about earlier in the
show, and it was his, hiseducation, right?
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and I know you and I livedthis.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
So you're making very littlemoney, but your education is
going to other restaurants.
Mm-hmm.
Your education is spending moneyin other restaurants.
(46:47):
And I remember.
You know, Jennifer and I havinga discussion about.
The fact that we had a used ahundred dollars couch in our
house, but we had just spent$350mm-hmm.
On dinner for two and, you know,you, but you had to do that.
That was, you still have to dothat.
Yes.
Okay.
We still go out to restaurantsall the time.
We're still watching what'shappening, what's evolving, how
(47:09):
things are changing, what'snext, what's coming back.
Being out in restaurants is partof the job.
Oh, a hundred percent.
Now, you know, I remember, uh,our good friend Nicholas
Ferrari, who owns it, used toown restaurant Nicholas.
It's become Nicholas Sparrow andRoost, a more casual dining
spot.
He's a great chef and now agreat restaurateur.
I remember when he was cookingin restaurants around for very
(47:31):
little money'cause we had aconversation that probably, and
I don't wanna get anybody mad atme, but if you want to become a
great chef and that's your goal,um.
If you're gonna spend.
A hundred thousand dollars on aculinary school.
Mm-hmm.
You will probably get a bettereducation going to STA air to,
(47:52):
to basically train in severalhigh-end kitchens that are all
doing cool, interesting things.
Stay there six months or a yearto learn something and move on
to the next.
And that's what he was doingthough.
He did go to culinary school aswell.
So you, so you're spending themoney on, honestly, in those
types of places on forfeitedsalary.
right, you're spending the moneyon a low salary, uh, learning
environment and going out todinner.
It's still less than tuition'cause you get something back.
(48:14):
Mm-hmm.
but he, he said he used to go tothe bars of the restaurants
where he wasn't staging inwherever he was, sit at the bar.
Order no drinks.
Mm-hmm.
And just taste and to eat thefood and, and enjoy the food.
I think that's, I think that'ssuper important.
Not just the food, theexperience.
You know, I, I, I tell my staffthis all the time, you know, go
someplace for lunch.
Go Yeah.
You know, have an iced tea.
(48:35):
You can, you know, yeah.
You want to experience the wholething with the, with the wine
and food and cocktails and allof that, but you don't have that
budget right now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you're young restaurantprofessional.
Go have, have lunch in four orfive of the best places you can,
you can get into.
it's not just about like, let melook at how they put this dish
together.
You really are young people whodon't have experience going to
(48:56):
fine dining restaurants.
Mm-hmm.
First time I walked into a finedining restaurant, I walked into
the kitchen and applied for ajob at the Frog and Peach.
Yes.
We know.
And, uh, and, uh, but you, it'sjust kind of like.
You gotta marinate in it.
Mm-hmm.
You have to get the whole feelof why all this is important.
I, I, you know, I think that'seven more now, there's a whole
generation of people who areworking in restaurants who've
(49:19):
never been to great restaurants.
Yeah.
And I think it's just, it's partof the learning experience.
It's part of the education and,okay, you didn't invest in
school, but you need to investin this.
Oh, yeah, a hundred percent.
So I want to end on one funnynote.
We, we talked to Rajesh about,um, why he put the tasting menu
in, because with people sharingmm-hmm.
He just couldn't, he needed, youneeded a minimum amount per
(49:40):
person in order to pay for thechair and the lights and the
people and the waiters need tomake a certain amount.
I do remember.
Um, there was, there was onetime we had a group of grad
students from Rutgers, we lovestudents from Rutgers.
We were students at Rutgers, butthis group of grad students that
used to come into the bar andthere'd be like a dozen of them.
And it's a small bar.
They take up half the seats inthe bar sometimes more, and they
(50:03):
would.
Order.
Four drinks between them.
Mm-hmm.
after the staff had begged us todo something about this.
Mm-hmm.
Francis (50:08):
'cause they're making no money'cause nobody else can
get in.
and they would tip very littleon the four drinks they got.
Yeah.
And, uh, I, I remember I walkedup and I said, listen.
Everybody has to ordersomething.
It's a one drink per person.
Like, oh, are you gonna pay formy D W I when I get pulled over?
Okay.
It doesn't have to be analcoholic drink.
Everybody here has to spendmoney when you come in and they
were outraged.
And I always remember the onegraduate student, she said, uh,
(50:32):
I wanna, I wanna speak to themanager.
I was like, I'm, I'm the owner,there's the manager.
He works for me.
And, and uh, and she said, well,I wanna see this in writing.
And I, I remember I'm such anasshole.
I picked up the cocktail napkin.
I wrote down one drink perperson on it and I handed it to
you.
Mark (50:47):
You are a jerk.
Anyway.
Can't let, can't, can't sweatthe small stuff.
that was a really fun show andI'm, I'm glad we had Rahan.
He's really made a difference inthe culinary scene and, I look
forward to going to, to JazbaYeah, let's go tonight.
I'm Francis Shot.
And I'm Mark Pascal.
We are the restaurant guys.
You can always find outmore@restaurantguyspodcast.com
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