Southern Smoke I 2025

Episode Transcript
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the-restaurant-guys_1_10-17- (00:00):
So today's show is gonna be a

(00:01):
little different than most.
This is one of the shows werecorded remotely on site in
Houston, Texas at the SouthernSmoke Festival.
So we talked to a lot of coolpeople while we were down there.
In this show, we're gonna talkabout pastry, we're gonna talk
about a great restaurant we hadgone to the night before, and
we're gonna talk to a great cheffrom Milwaukee.
Really kind of covering all thedifferent kinds of things we do.

(00:23):
You know, it's, it's reallyinteresting as Mark and I are
getting invited, as therestaurant guys are getting
invited to different festivalsor events and, uh, around the
country and around the world,hopefully, it's very interesting
to go to these festivals.
I enjoy a lot of, when we goonsite to some great restaurant
in some other city where we'rethere on a different mission and
we do the food stuff when we'rethere.

(00:43):
But these festivals are, theyreally do when they're well
done.
They really do provide a way tohave an insight into, not just
Houston, which was great, butall the other people who come to
Houston and it's great thatthey're excited to talk to us
and we found other places thatwe now want to go.
Absolutely.
Down in Houston, Texas, wetalked to Manhattan
restaurateurs down in Texas.

(01:05):
I think they can be really greatand it's really, yeah.
The role we play at thosethings.
I, I'm really enjoying.
Well, it was fun because we, wespent two or three hours doing,
doing, recording with people aswe went on, but then we also got
to partake in the festival.
Yeah.
Which was great.
So a lot of great food there.
Really great.
Cause I, I think that Doingshows like this is really

(01:25):
interesting.
A little different than what wenormally do.
Yeah.
But super interesting and, andfun and exciting for us, and
hopefully for the listeners aswell.
this time, we traveled withJulie.
Mm-hmm.
And Jen, our producer and yourwife, uh, and Julie, our
director of operations and notyour wife or my wife.
And it was, it was great toexplore Houston as the city and
it's a, it's really interesting.

(01:46):
I probably never would've woundup in Houston the second time
I've ever been in Texas.
Mm-hmm.
And I want to tell you, thestars at night are big and
bright down in the heart ofTexas.
Can I say that You're notlaughing.
Um, the stars of Night are bigand bright, but you know that
I've been in Texas twice in mylife.

(02:07):
Have you?
Yeah.
I went to Texo.
Well, I know one time.
Yeah.
Yep.
You know, the other time was,oh, TEXO.
I went to Texo years ago, whichis a sommelier conference down
there.
That's amazing.
Super important.
Yeah.
One of the biggest sommeliercompetitions in the country.
Do you know where I stayed thefirst time?
I was in Texas.
I was in Dallas.
Do you know what hotel I stayedat?
I thought you were gonna saylike in the subway?
No, no.

(02:28):
The Four Seasons.
Oh, nice.
Do you know where we stay thistime?
I do know where do we stay TheFour Seasons.
So from my perspective, Texas isa wonderful state.
Uh, I don't see what anybodyever complains about as far as
Texas.
And you'll find out more aboutHouston, Texas when we take you
down right now to Houston withus at the Southern Smoke
Festival.

the-restaurant-guys_1_10- (02:58):
Hello everybody and welcome.
You are listening to theRestaurant Guys.
I'm Mark Pascal here withFrancis Shot.
Together we own stage left inCatherine Lombardi, restaurants
in New Brunswick, New Jersey.
We are here to bring you theinside track on food, wine, and
the finer things in life.
Well, hello, mark.
Hey Francis.
Mark, we are not in NewBrunswick, New Jersey today.
We are definitely not in NewBrunswick, Toto.
We're not even indoors.

(03:19):
We are outside at the SouthernSmoke Festival in Houston,
Texas.
Restaurant guys, on location.
Uh, we're thrilled.
To be down here, we're gonnainterview a whole bunch of
chefs.
There's a ton going on down herein in Houston, but chefs from
across the country have come,come down here for the Southern
Smoke Foundation, which is awonderful organization that
we'll link to in the notes.
We've done a show with them, butthey invited us to come and you

(03:40):
never know what happens and thefestival's about to get started
and the restaurant guys areabout to get started.
Really excited about this.
With you.
We've been in Houston since lastnight and we went out to lunch
and then dinner and then dinner,and then drinks, and then
breakfast and then, and thenRebecca pastries.
Well, so, uh, Rebecca Mason,who's the pastry chef we're

(04:00):
gonna interview, sent uspastries to the hotel.
It's good to be a restaurantguy.
It's really, really good to be arestaurant guy.
So anyway, we're not gonna haveour normal banter go on as long
as it normally does because wehave a lot of people to talk to
today and, uh, this.
Maybe one of our first podcaststhat appears on YouTube.
It may not.
If things don't go well, butwe're gonna try and that'll be a

(04:21):
new thing.
If you'd like to see moreRestaurant Guys podcasts on
YouTube, email us at theguys@restaurantguyspodcast.com.
But we're going to take a quickbreak.
We're gonna come right back withour first guest.
You ready to go strap in?

the-restaurant-guys_2_10-04 (04:36):
So, finding great chefs to talk to
is like shooting fish in abarrel here at the Southern
Smoke Festival in Houston.
We have with us Aaron Bludo.
He's the chef owner of Bludo.
He's also got navy blue and Barbludo and per se, um.
Uh, tremendous re and in, infolded spirit of full
disclosure, we dined last nightat his restaurant and had an
amazing time.
Aaron Bludo, welcome to therestaurant guys.

(04:57):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Great to be here.
We're, we're so happy to haveyou here.
We'd say, welcome to Houston,but it's your city.
Yeah.
Welcome to Houston.
Houston.
Houston.
Yeah.
Well, well, um, uh, so I wannastart with dinner last night and
we can talk more generally aboutyou and about Houston.
Um, but, uh, uh, we had, we'vehad an amazing time since we've

(05:17):
been down here in Houston, andum, your restaurant was really a
highlight and what we said toeach other, and I said some of
this last night, but.
If we opened a restaurant inHouston, we'd want to accomplish
a lot of what you accomplishedright there.
It's very much what we like.
Elegant, but relaxed.
It was, it was it.
It is, and I'm gonna pay myselfa big compliment here.

(05:37):
Okay.
It is, it is as much arestaurant, like our restaurant
stage left as I've encountered,kind of outside of our
restaurant.
Yeah.
Really, the feel, the, the vibewe want to have is the vibe you
have.
Thank you.
The, the sound you have, thefeel, the hospitality.
It's all those things that weaspire to be.
Wow.
Wow.

(05:57):
That is a huge compliment.
Well, especially that, that,that, that compliment right
there is saying, this is therestaurant we have, we try to
create, you know, and I, I wouldprobably come to your restaurant
and say the exact same thing.
Well, I hope so.
Right?
Yeah.
Well, when you do, I mean, I,you know, at the end of the day,
I think, uh, I, we aspire to bea restaurant that chefs want to
come eat at.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I mean, I, I thinkabout where I like to go eat

(06:18):
and, you know.
It, sometimes it ends up beingway simpler than mm-hmm.
What everyone expects me to wantgravitate towards.
Right?
Yeah.
Like, my wife and I go like,love having a meal at Hillstone
just because it's so simple and,you know, executed well.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and I think, like, notto say that that's what we do.
I mean, we, there's certainother twists and turns we
incorporate, but yeah, that'skinda the fun of it.

(06:40):
I, I think we, at the day one,we thought about what is the
restaurant that I would want toeat on, you know, you know, it's
funny, we talk about that allthe time.
So what you, what we start with,every project we do, every event
we do, we first start with,okay, how do we make it great?
How do we make it something wewould want to go to?

(07:01):
And then whether it makes sensefinancially, whether it makes
sense as a, as an event, whetherwe can execute it.
That all is secondary, secondaryand tertiary.
We'll figure it out.
Later comes, comes after, okay,what do we do to make it great?
And then how do we execute that?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's all, the rest of it comesafter that first piece.
I think that's a great place tostart.
Right.
So you are not from here, right?

(07:21):
Not so you're originally fromthe Pacific Northwest.
You cooked in New York, youcooked all around.
Um, it's one of the most highlyregarded restaurants down here
and highly regarded in thecountry.
Thank you.
What are you going for there andwhat's it like to open in, in
Houston?
What's the market like and is itchanging?
And we saw a, a reallyinteresting cross section of
people at your restaurant lastnight.
Yeah, I mean, that's what I'mgoing for right there.
Just being a, a restaurant thatcan satisfy so many, uh, desires

(07:46):
and so many like.
You know, it can, it, I alwayscall it our restaurant, blue
Dorn can be tight, uh, almostlike a Swiss Army knife of
restaurants.
You can use it as a date nightspot.
You can use it as a, as arestaurant to have a business
meeting.
You can use it as a guy's night,girls night, you know, dinner
with friends, whatever it is.
And, and you know, I think thatstarts with like giving, giving
guests the permission to do whatthey want to do.

(08:08):
You know, we were, I was cookingfor, uh.
Scott, uh, tr Elli and, uh,Angie Rito from Don Angie right
now.
Mm-hmm.
They're sitting, they're sittingnext to y'all.
And, uh, I started them off withcaviar intentionally.
Right, right.
And then the, and then Ifinished'em off with a burger.
That's right.
And because I wanted to showthem the, that this is kind of
what we are.
And like you can do all thesethings and we don't have white

(08:28):
tablecloths, but mm-hmm.
It can feel fancy and we, youknow, but it can also feel, uh,
feel laid back and relaxed.
And I think that thatpermission, that, uh.
To just do what you wanna do atour restaurants is, is, is the
cornerstone of what we'vecreated.
You know, you worked for, whenyou were in New York, one of our
favorite crests of all time.
A guy by the name of GavinCason.

(08:49):
Yes.
And you know, his vibe is,listen, I'm really intense.
I'm really, I really care aboutthe results here, but I also
care about how I do it and how Itreat the people while I'm doing
it.
I totally got the sense from thepeople you work with that.

(09:10):
Your hospitality goes beyondjust the customer.
That the, that the people whowork for you are glad to be
working for you.
Is that, is that something you,you aspire to Abso Absolutely.
And, and it's great.
It's great.
I, I saw you can do there,there's an F bomb on the way and
you pulled it back at the lastsecond.
We don't need to do too muchediting here.
Um, no.
I think, you know, and well,yeah, I worked for Gavin, I

(09:31):
worked for Danielle, I workedfor Douglas Keen and these were
all chefs that.
The reason why I worked for themis because I wanted to work for
them.
Mm-hmm.
I believed in them.
I aspired to be them.
I studied them.
Mm-hmm.
I, you know, worked with them,worked for them.
And that, you know, when youthink about who you are today,
you're a product of yourexperience and you're a product

(09:52):
of the chefs that you've chosento work for.
And you know, Gavin's a greatexample of that.
He treated me extremely well.
I mean, he was, he was very hardto work for sometimes.
Yep.
Like,'cause he has highstandards, but you know.
And the SA at the, in the samebreath, he would also take
incredible care of you.
If you showed up for him, hewould show up for you.
And he ended up showing up forme big time by giving me the,

(10:14):
the opportunity to take hisposition.
So, you know, one of the thingsthat I think is very
interesting, and we're in NewJersey, we're New Brunswick, New
Jersey, and we've got a greatcommunity that supported us from
the beginning.
We also benefit from being 45minutes outside of New York
City.
So we have all the resources ofthat.
But as we have interviewed somany people over the decades,
we've been doing this show.
and the places we visited, oneof the things we realize is in

(10:39):
New York, if you're operatingthe top of your game in New York
or LA or in Paris, or you'reoperating a restaurant on an
international stage, and you'reprobably not gonna be around as
long as Gramercy Tavern, you're,and if you are, somebody else is
gonna own it, and somebody elseis gonna be the chef.
but it strikes me that.
You can't really be part of thecommunity.

(10:59):
I might, I might be, I'm missingsomebody in New York, but you're
not part of the local communitybecause not only do the
restaurants change so much inthose big cities and the high
stakes pokers changes therestaurants in those, but the
people who are there, there areplenty of people who live in
Manhattan their whole lives, butthe people who live in New
Brunswick, New Jersey, thepeople who live in Houston, the
people who live in evenPhiladelphia are, are families
that are there for a long time.

(11:21):
It's a different kind of a thingwhen you operate in this sort of
a market.
Was that what you were lookingfor when you came to Houston?
I don't know if it was what Iwas looking for, but it's what I
realized I had to become, youknow, and we realized that, you
know, staying power comesthrough.
What I call our biggest awardwe've ever received, which is
having regulars.

(11:42):
That's great.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
You know, look, uh, regulars ina bottom line.
Look, you can, all the awards inthe world don't add up to those
two things because without thosetwo things, uh, you don't exist.
You know?
And I think that's, that's it.
And, and a regular can be, youknow, we have regulars and they
come to the same festival everyyear.
And we see them every singleyear, and we've seen them every

(12:03):
single year for 15 years.
Right?
Yep.
They're regulars, right?
Yeah.
That's, they're, they're coming,they're they're coming every
day.
And then of course, you havepeople who you see once a week
or once a month, or every birthrate day times a week.
There's different definitions.
There's different definitions tothe word regular, but at the
same time, you know, you feelit, you feel that person who is
committed to your restaurant ina, in a way that makes you wanna

(12:25):
be committed to them.
Absolutely.
And I think it starts with, uh,giving your team.
The opportunity to create thoserelationships and pushing them
to do that.
And because, you know, I thinkat the end of the day, like,
look, we're people, pe we'repeople, people, people persons.
I got what?
Sorry.
Why am I saying people?
People, people.
Yeah.
People, people.
Right.
We're, we're humans that love totake care of other humans.

(12:48):
We love to see people's, youknow, the instant gratification
of making someone happy.
Uh, and you know, when you canallow your team members to make
those connections as well asyourself.
And, and then, you know, when Ido end up walking through the
restaurant, one of the firstplaces I go to, you know, if I'm
going to bar Bluehorn or NavyBlue or, or if I walk into

(13:09):
Bluehorn after having not beenthere for a minute, um.
I'll go right to the gm.
Who do I need to say hi to?
Who have you made a connectionwith that I can make a
connection with?
It's funny, we have tworestaurants.
One's on the first floor, one'son the second floor.
Yeah.
So it's easy for us to get from,from restaurant to restaurant.
That's nice.
It is great.
But I definitely do that.
I walk in the door, I'm like,who do I gotta see?
Who do who?
Who do I, who do I want?

(13:30):
Who wants to see me?
Yeah.
As much as, who do I gotta see?
Who wants to see me?
Who wants, who's, who's.
dinner's gonna be elevated by megoing to their table and
talking.
Absolutely.
And who, you know, you go to thepeople that are on the front
lines that are mm-hmm.
Having those conversations andthat, that are, you know,
because not everyone wants youto come over like, hi, I'm Aaron
Hor.
Let me, let me interrupt yourconversation.

(13:50):
Sometimes you're in an intensebusiness meeting.
Yeah.
You know, sometimes you know,you, you gotta read the room.
Exactly.
Gotta read the room.
And if you already have somebodyreading it for you, that's makes
it better.
Exactly.
That gives us a, so, so I wantto ask you about coming down
here and opening in Houston.
Why did you choose Houston andwhat did you find in the
community here when you came toHouston?
So I married, my wife is fromHouston.
Oh, now I get it.
Yeah.
They, they say that, uh, Houstonwomen are like salmon.

(14:12):
They come home to spawn.
That's amazing.
And that's what we did.
Well, I think I also, the, theidea of raising, uh, kids in New
York City is the most terrifyingthing ever.
And I, those who do it, like allhats off to you.
You are amazing people.
I am not one of those people to,and you met your wife in New
York Met when you were cooking.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We both worked, uh, for DanielBallou.

(14:32):
Yeah.
Wild.
So not at the same restaurant.
She, she worked in, uh,operations at, uh, corporate,
but, uh, we got to know eachother and, uh, you know, got
married and we're looking like,where's our next step?
I come from a small family inPacific Northwest.
She comes to a large Greekfamily down here in Houston and
just do the math.
It made more sense to be downhere, but also.

(14:54):
As taking those trips.
And it was right around the timewhen, uh, Anthony Bourdain did
the No Reservations episode onHouston Uhhuh and sort of
started to expose the, thecultural diversity that the city
has to offer, the, the diningculture that this city has.
Because I mean, we don't havemountains to go climb lakes to

(15:14):
go swimming.
Mm-hmm.
Or, you know, uh, the PugetSound to go kayaking.
We've got.
Great restaurants, and that's,it's one of the most amazing
things about the city.
And, you know, we learned aboutit firsthand when, when, uh,
COVID, uh, hit, we had to openup in the middle of it.
We, you know, we had signed thelease, we had taken all of our,
you know, all the investments.
Uh, and there was no way otherthan forward, no turn back.

(15:37):
There was no turning back.
No, no turn back.
I, I had actually.
March 14th, I was sitting in anempty restaurant that I just
demolished.
Like what do I do?
Uh, but you know, we found a wayforward.
We opened in August of 2020 andone of the big, we were the, we
had a very captive audiencebecause we were the first
restaurant opening post closedown or lockdown or whatever,
right.

(15:58):
And it was this just, peoplewere coming in and having these
experiences.
And I think for a lot of whatyou see in.
That we do at Blue Dorn today.
We wanted to be that Swiss armyknife of a restaurant because
everybody needed that excitementback.
Yeah, yeah.
Everyone needed to fall back inlove with dining.
Yep.
Um, and we were so ready to, andthey Right.
And they were, and they wantedto, I mean, they wanted to be in

(16:19):
your restaurant.
Yes.
They wanted to be out amongsteach other, you know?
Yeah.
And that's, and we created that.
And that's why, so to answeryour question, why Houston?
Well.
Yeah, I didn't choose Houston.
Houston chose me.
Right.
Nice.
But, but, uh, but in, in abigger way.
I was so excited that to haveended up in Houston and that

(16:41):
this was where we opened upbecause it could not have been
more perfect for what we weretrying to accomplish.
You know, we talked yesterdayto, we at the restaurant, we
talked to your partner, uh,Sharif Moji.
Yeah.
And he, he kind of, we kind ofsaid the same thing.
Like, so, so you, you're, you'reborn in Senegal.
You come to New York City,you're working in New York City,
and Aaron, you know, convincesyou to come to Houston.

(17:04):
He's like, yeah.
Best decision of my life.
That's wild.
Right.
You know, it, it, it's, I, I'lltell you, I was so nervous.
I was not only nervous for him,uh, while I was nervous to see
if he would like it, but I knewthat he was gonna fall into
work.
I was nervous for his family tolike it.
Yeah.
He moved, he moved down withthree kids.
Like one of them, uh, you know,was, uh, 10 at the time.
Yeah.
And like, wow.

(17:25):
You know.
To move a family and a bigcultural shift.
Yeah.
And all because of me was, wasthe most terrifying thing in the
world.
What if they didn't like it?
Right?
What if they didn't?
What if that didn't work out?
So thankfully you're not, you'renot just opening your own
restaurant, right?
you're impacting other people'slives.
So many lives.
So many lives.
And for me, that's, it's one ofthe biggest drivers, one of the
biggest motivations.

(17:45):
You know, sometimes you're like.
Oh, it's so hard to get up inthe morning like, man, I have
300 people that depend on me toget up every morning and to be
my best each and every day.
So did you find that the culturewas down here, both of work of
people who are working and ofthe diners, were there cultural
changes you needed to makecoming from running restaurants
in New York with New Yorkemployees to.
Running a restaurant down herein Houston.

(18:06):
Well, I will tell you from thediners, the, the biggest, I
mean, I worked on the Upper EastSide, so if you, if you can make
it on the Upper East Side, it'snot even not Can you make it in
New York?
You make it anywhere.
Yeah, you make it on the UpperEast Side, you can make it
anywhere.
'cause man, you have somediscerning diners up there.
But yeah, for sure.
Uh, but the cultural changes,uh, I think for, for the, the,

(18:26):
our team members, we, we had tocreate our own culture.
Um, we wanted to, you know, andit's not that the culture here
wasn't where it needed to be.
We, we just wanted to createsomething that was our own, um,
and, and really emphasizehospitality, emphasize, you
know, start with, talk abouthospitality towards each other.

(18:47):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And if we treat each other theright way, then it will just be
passed on to our guests.
Was that the culture thatexisted in Houston already with,
with staff?
I think so.
With certain, with certainrestaurants, but, you know, I
mean, I think that's been ashift across the country.
Mm-hmm.
Even in New York.
I mean, I think, uh, we werestarting to see those changes,

(19:08):
like right around pre pandemicin some places.
Some places.
No doubt.
and also, you know, the otherthing is we, we were also going
from being, you know, employeesmm-hmm.
You know, but executiveemployees.
Yep.
To being.
Uh, business owners.
Yeah.
And you know, now all eyes areon you and you have to, you
assume a lot of differentthings.
So, and every glass that breaks,you pay for it.

(19:28):
That's very different.
Exactly.
It's not just that, you know, wewere 26 when we opened our first
restaurant, so a bunch of thepeople that came to work for us
had worked with us.
Right?
Yeah.
And now you're in charge ofeverything and you had a
different perspective and youhad to create a different
relationship with those peoplethan you had when you were
amongst them.
Yes, yes, yes.

(19:49):
And, You can't be the, theenforcer anymore.
Mm-hmm.
You, you are the tap on theshoulder.
Hey, you need to tell them theycan't do this.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Right.
And I think that was so to seeif I had to change, I can't
really tell you because I wasgoing through so many changes
personally on mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, probably for a good reason,,that it all sort of happened at

(20:10):
once.
It's mm-hmm.
Because I'm not, I couldn't bemy, the same person I was in New
York as I was owning a businessin Houston.
Can I just say, we've talked alot about how you've brought a,
a change to the culture ofHouston, and I'm gonna tell you
that I know that Houston has hadan effect on you 100%.
But, but, but I'm gonna tell youhow outwardly I know this.

(20:31):
You are currently wearing ashirt that it has buttons that
have pearl tops on, so it's notquite the 10 gallon cowboy hat,
but you know, we can see it.
You're getting there.
Rough.
We can see pearl snaps, Pearlsnaps.
Pearl snaps, snaps.
That's what it's all about.
I will tell you also, it is aperformance fabric, so you know
what I mean.
Sweat all day today.
It'll, uh, I have an alternateshirt for later in the day.

(20:53):
Yes, yes, yes.
I, I mean, I used to wear those,you know, uhhuh, I, I'd wear a
hundred percent cotton orsomething like some, you know,
fabric like that.
Now I'm wearing, you know, thislike nylon performance fit,
wicking wick, sweat wicking wickshirt wicking.
Yeah.
Gotcha.
I have one final observation onyour restaurant.
I'm really curious about it.
We noticed that we went to, todine at your place fairly late
last night we were there fairlylate and as the night wore on,

(21:16):
it got quite late.
Your place kind of got busierand busier and what we are
seeing up in North Jersey and ina few other places where we've
been is we're seeing the, thenights are earlier and earlier
there was that article in TheTimes that said, you know, six
o'clock is the new eighto'clock.
And I'm wondering if, is that aHouston thing?
And I wonder if that wasaffected by how long we stay

(21:36):
closed up in the Northeast.
That dining patterns changed upthere.
Is there a difference?
North to south?
Or did we just catch that on anodd night?
You caught it on an odd night.
Okay.
I think, well, it's alsosomething smoke weekend, so
mm-hmm.
There's a, there's a, right.
So a lot of restaurant peoplewho we like to eat out late.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
And then, you know, it's also,I, I think it was Friday night
too, that, that probably had apull, but No, I've definitely
seen diners coming like earlier,earlier, earlier.

(21:58):
Yeah.
We, I mean we, for us.
Eight o'clock was the suitereservation and now seven
o'clock is the suite.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
I mean, for, we, we, we havebabysitters when we go out, so.
Mm-hmm.
My wife and I are like, well, wecan't be out till past 11.
You know, there's things likethat.
See, we like to go out afterwork, so this is really for us.
Used to be when we went outafter work.

(22:19):
We were going to, you know, theplaces that stayed out till two
o'clock in the morning.
Yeah.
We were going for oysters or, orsomewhere in the city.
Yeah.
You know, that served food attwo in the morning'cause we were
busy until midnight or oneo'clock.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, and, and during COVID, Iremember with CO it was a later
crowd for sure.
Mm-hmm.
Like right afterwards, likeright after we got kind of like

(22:40):
past all that, because I think.
No one had to get up for work inthe morning.
Yeah.
Or they didn't necessarily haveto put pants on to get on the
zoom call.
We had the, we had theexperience of people being home
from work.
So in a town where, peopleliving in the apartment building
next to us would just come, youknow where it's four 30 and so

(23:00):
25 year olds are eating at four30, we're like.
You're 25, we'll see you in sixhours.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
You know, what are you doinghere?
Having lunch?
So, is, is Houston changing?
Are different people moving inor is it very stable?
It seems to be the hot cityright now.
I mean, it's definitely, it'sbeen very hot.
Um, I think, I think we've gonethrough a lot of changes post

(23:22):
COVID.
I think it's, I think it'sstarting to level out a little
bit.
Yeah.
Like we had a few, like I thinklast year was like the most
openings that.
Uh, this city's ever seen.
Um, and this year is a littlebit less and next year is gonna
be a little bit less than that.
I think.
Uh, you know, I think, I don'tknow.
Um, it feels pretty stable rightnow, to tell you the truth.
Well, alright.

(23:43):
I, we don't have a lot of timeleft, but Mark, you wanna, yeah,
so I, I guess what I want to askis, since we're sitting here,
how'd you get involved withSouthern Smoke?
How did this become an importantplace for you to be?
A few reasons.
Um, Chris.
Has been the biggest supporterof me, um, since I, even since
before I arrived, since he heardan inkling.

(24:03):
I was looking at a property.
I saw him out at, uh, a bar withmy wife and I, it was during
Christmas.
We were down visiting.
I was still in New York, and hejust gave me the biggest hug.
He's like, I hear you might becoming down here, and I can't
wait.
Like, wow, that, you know, thisis when we were competitors, or
I was a prospective competitor.
And to see him welcome me in theway that he did was so
incredible.

(24:23):
He's like, I want to.
When you move down here yourfirst year, I want you to come
to Southern Smoke I want, and Iwas like, you know, so I didn't
even have a restaurant, thefirst Southern Smoke I did.
Um, you know, also, uh, we have,we had some mutual friends, a
really close friend of mine, um,was one of the reasons he
started Southern Smoke with theMS.
Society involved and the firstone.

(24:43):
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, that was a big deal andit just, it just felt so right.
So anyway, he had me out, uh, ano-name chef from New York
doing, uh.
I think I did, uh, fried, uh,pig head sliders, you know what
I mean?
And it was, it was so amazingand I just knew that, you know,
not only that, but what itsupports and what it stands for
and how it just enriches ourindustry in so many ways and

(25:06):
points out all the ways that weneed to be better and proposes
actual solutions is exactly whyI want to be involved in it, and
why I want to, you know, shopfrom the rooftops to, to get as
many other people involved aspossibly can.
And to see it continuously growmore and more and to see it
become this national juggernautof our industry, it, it couldn't

(25:29):
make me happier.
Well, Aaron Bludo, now you are aname somebody from Houston and,
uh, you, I think your life is alittle different than maybe when
you first got to Houston.
Uh, restaurants are great.
Congratulations to all youraccomplishments.
Thank you.
Uh, uh, bigger and better thingsare in your, in your future, I'm
sure.
Oh, man.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you so much.

(25:50):
Thank you both.
Great having you on the show.
Thanks, man.
Oh, this has been amazing.
Thank you, man.
Thank you.
Have a great one.
Thanks brother.
Thanks for taking the time.
We appreciate it.
Thank you.
It was awesome.

Francis (25:57):
Okay, so we've had all sorts of savory chefs here, but,
um, Rebecca Mason founded FluffBake Bar in 2011.
She now has a brick and mortarshop here in Houston.
She poisoned us with wonderfulpastries this morning and has
showed up with a little.
A pop of ice cream and you'rethe only one to come.
Brand and gifts so far.
So you're our favorite.
So you're the winner.

Rebecca (26:17):
Um, that's because all I do is win.

Francis (26:19):
I love it.
Yeah.
Cheer we're gonna eat.
These will cheers.
You tell people what we'reeating while we eat them.
For

Rebecca (26:22):
sure.
We did a pano shuck lott icecream pop.

Francis (26:26):
Oh my god.

Rebecca (26:27):
So it's a croissant ice cream.
It's dipped in chocolate, andthen it's got a toasty crunchy
croissant topping, like

Francis (26:35):
the almond thing from the good humor truck.

Rebecca (26:37):
Is it?

Francis (26:38):
Well, but better

Rebecca (26:39):
but better.
Yeah.
Did you ever

Francis (26:40):
have a good humor when you were a kid?
Um,

Rebecca (26:42):
no.

Francis (26:43):
Mm,

Rebecca (26:43):
I always got like bomb pops and stuff from the truck.
That's good.
That

Mark (26:46):
was good humor.
Oh, is it?
Same truck, isn't it?

Rebecca (26:48):
Okay.
I don't know.
Post it on in crunch.

Mark (26:51):
Yeah.
If somebody, if the truck wasplaying music and they drove
around your neighborhood, thatcounts as good humor.

Rebecca (26:56):
Okay, cool.
Then yeah, then I did uhhuh.
Yeah, we chased those guys down.

Francis (27:01):
Absolutely.

Rebecca (27:01):
Gimme my ice cream.

Francis (27:03):
Alright, so.
You are known for being one ofthe best bakers, one of the best
pastry chefs around.
And we agree and we did ourresearch to make sure that we
knew we absolutely,

Mark (27:11):
we took one for the team and we Right

Francis (27:13):
ordered a box of pastries, a box of hotel, of

Mark (27:15):
pastries for this morning to be delivered to our hotel.
But I

Francis (27:17):
also sent you a surprise then.
You sure did.
Yeah.
So I wanna tell you, so thatyou, you, what I read in our
research said you are known fordoing french pastry technique
with nostalgic American, youknow Yeah.
Rustic stuff and savory thingsto the barbecue.
You sent us a barbecuecroissant.

Rebecca (27:32):
I did.
I didn't think

Francis (27:32):
that was possible.
It is, it was amazing.
Well,

Rebecca (27:35):
it wasn't just barbecue.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
It was Franklin barbecuebrisket.

Francis (27:41):
Yeah.
Nice.

Rebecca (27:41):
From our friend Aaron in Austin.

Francis (27:43):
Oh my God.

Rebecca (27:44):
And then we put a little provolone and a little
golden's mustard and roll it upand bake it.
Yeah.

Mark (27:49):
Are you freaking kidding me?
You didn't just roll it up.
I'm not.
You put it in a, in a croissant.
That, okay.
So Francis, were you

Rebecca (27:54):
wearing half of it?
Yeah, I was just, not to

Mark (27:55):
say so.
Francis was in my room and hetore a piece of the croissant
'cause I, he was being courteousand not just taking a big old
bite, but.
This area under where Franciswas sitting now is a a,

Francis (28:09):
a damaged site.
All of you, all of you shouldknow and listen on.
If you got your croissant fromthe supermarket and you just ate
it and didn't explode in flakeof pastry everywhere, it's a's
croissant.
It's a croissant.
But most people joke.
And here's the, I know a lot.
Places that make pretty goodcroissant uhhuh, but when they
put savory ingredients in thecroissant, it falls apart.
Mm-hmm.
Yours was as flaky and explosiveand pastry and then it had

(28:31):
barbecue in it.
You crazy woman.
That's how you do it.

Rebecca (28:34):
Do you, have you guys talked to Erin Fis yet?
No.

Francis (28:37):
No.

Rebecca (28:37):
So Erin Fis during COD, she gave me the title of
honorary pit master.
About once a quarter I'll driveto Austin and get stuff from
Erin, but I typically get fis,blood Brothers and Truth here in
town.
But Erin introduced me the otherday as the most important woman
in Texas barbecue.

(28:58):
And I like laughed hysterically.

Francis (29:01):
I love it.

Rebecca (29:01):
But it's like, I really like, we do K Cheese, we do Bri,
you know, we'll do,

Mark (29:06):
you're doing something.
Nothing.
Nobody else is doing cheese

Rebecca (29:07):
sandwiches.
Yeah.
And.
It started out doing it duringCOVID so I could support my
barbecue friends.
Right, right.
So I could buy like a wholebrisket or five pounds of
chopped beef and or whatever andintroduce it to my neighborhood.
Yeah.
Right.
And so, and now it's about onceevery couple months'cause we do

(29:29):
Saturday morning specials,Uhhuh.
So these are items that aresavory and um.
Day only happened that it'sSaturday morning and so it's

Francis (29:38):
savory Saturdays.
And other than you don't dosavory the other day, week.
Yeah.
We're pretty happy with

Mark (29:41):
savory Saturdays today.
Yeah.
I, on a

Francis (29:43):
Saturday can

Mark (29:44):
typically, but we're also happy with Sweet Saturdays.
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca (29:46):
Yeah.
Well, I mean we do, yeah, we dothat all the time.
We typically sell, I mean, wecan sell out the fastest
sellouts 38 minutes.
Um Wow.
But we've had lines that go,like, sometimes we'll do a guest
chef, we'll have lines down thestreet.
It's insane.
it started out where I wouldbring the chef in.
Right?
Like before COVID every weekendwe had a guest chef.

(30:07):
Right.
Okay.
Uhhuh.
And now we do it once every fewweeks or something, just because
I feel bad.
My friends are understaffed andmy, and I know the cost of goods
and I feel bad asking'em, butthey're starting to come to me
now again.
Which now I feel comfortable.

Francis (30:21):
So when you say you bring in chefs, you bring in
savory chefs, Uhhuh, so, andthen they, and you put their
food in and you work together?
Yeah.
So like

Rebecca (30:27):
two weeks ago we had, uh, Manny from, um, Temo.
Mm-hmm.
I think I said it right.
Anyways, so he did like a, achili achilles croissant.
Like he was making chiliachilles with smoked brisket and
the chips and the salsa and allthat.
And then we stuffed it in acroissant, like we did that to
order, or we did, um.

(30:48):
I can never say it.
The corn fungus, the wida Coe.
We leche.
Yeah.
So we did that and Jinx owe eachother a cookie.

Francis (30:56):
You made us do it.
I did.
That's the only Spanish Markspeaks right there.
That that was it.
Right.

Rebecca (31:00):
So we put that in a qui.
So.
Or like a few weeks ago we, that

Francis (31:04):
sounds like a great ingredient.
We like coqui.
Sounds perfect.
Wait, ke That like Coch stealingthat ke, where

Rebecca (31:11):
were you?
Like I'm next time

Francis (31:13):
around.

Rebecca (31:14):
Yeah.

Francis (31:14):
Stealing that come.
Well, it's better than betterhave a wheat like coqui.
Hold on a second.
But you should put as aparenthetical under it, corn
smut pie.
That's also what it's called.
I like that.
That's even better.

Rebecca (31:24):
That goes with the vibe, the fluff.

Francis (31:26):
Yeah.
I like it.
But you should have both likethe high end and then the, you
know, the high and left.

Rebecca (31:29):
Um, yeah, for me, it was, it's interesting for my
customers, my customers love it,right?
I had a chef friend from Juno,Juno, Alaska, come down, right?
They're never gonna go to Juno.
Right.
But they're gonna get to eatBose food.
Right.
But also for my staff.
So my staff is gonna come in ona Friday and they don't know if
they're gonna, I don't know, cutshort rib or scoop cookies,

(31:53):
right?
It's, it's this cool thing.
I've learned I didn't do savoryor cooking.
Mm-hmm.
In culinary school I just didstraight up pastry.
'cause who needs to learn tocook?
Right.
Right.
But I've learned to cook.
Right, right.
And now a lot of Saturdays I dothe savory stuff.

Francis (32:10):
So, uh, so you went to the Cordon blue, you got a, a
pastry diploma from Cordon Blue,right.

Rebecca (32:15):
Uhhuh, we,

Francis (32:16):
we, both of us, we, we, no, we, yeah.
All right.
and then you come back and wecan talk about the trajectory of
your career Uhhuh, but.
And look, it's funny in theshow, especially when we travel
somewhere, you'll hear us talkchefs and we're always like, oh
my God, your food's so good.
But the fact of the matter isthose are the only people we
bring in the show, right?
I don't think your food's sogood.
If we, if we think your foodstink on a damn show, if we
food, I've food invite them onthe show.

(32:39):
So, uh, it's, but I bring you onthe show.
'cause the show your food'samazing, but this is.
pastry is a unique thing and I,I have seen in New York,
especially in New York, NewJersey, that area, some pastry
shops where they get famous fora thing and then they get lines
and then the quality goes down.
Oh yeah.
Because they're building'causethey're making a thousand of

(33:00):
those things.
Yeah.
And they have, yeah.
When really,

Mark (33:01):
when really they should be making the 75 a a day that they
were always making or

Francis (33:05):
150 or whatever.
Right.
So, but your food is absolutely,everything they had today was
top notch.
Not too sweet, perfectlybalanced.
Like real tension there.
Good use,

Rebecca (33:14):
good use of salt,

Francis (33:15):
uh, salt.
But in the cookies especially,yes.
I'm salt I that, I'll tell yousomething.

Mark (33:19):
I love salt.
So many people don't use salt intheir baking.
I see it.
Honestly, I see it even morethan in pastry.
I see it in bread.

Rebecca (33:28):
Yeah.

Mark (33:29):
Put a little bit of salt in there.

Rebecca (33:31):
Yeah.
And

Mark (33:31):
it's gonna be, and you're gonna just brighten it right up
and make it delicious.

Rebecca (33:35):
Salt and acidity are your friends.
Absolutely.
Like I've been known to like,we'll make fillings for.
The filling for poptart.
Right?
Like strawberry filling forpoptart.
Throw some fricking citric acidin there.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Right.
And brighten it that, tank it.
Make it

Mark (33:50):
pop.
Yeah.
All right, Rebecca, we don'thave a lot more time.
Well, that thank, stuck.
I'm kidding.
Thank you so much for cominghere.
But I wanna know, how did youget involved with Southern
Smoke?
How'd you get involved withthis?
So, I, this festival and Chris,uh,

Rebecca (34:05):
Chris didn't know this till a couple years ago.
I'm actually a recipient.
Um.
In in 2020, I had a really, canI say I had a shitty landlord
who did all the construction onthe new'cause I moved in 2020,
he did all the constructionwithout permits and I got shut
down for illegal construction.
Oh no.
I had to do$40,000 incorrections.

(34:26):
I was shut down for 99 days.
We're talking like June to, or Iopened back up before Halloween
and Lindsay texted me and shegoes, apply for Southern smoke
because.
I was like, I don't, I don'thave any income.

Mark (34:40):
Mm-hmm.

Rebecca (34:40):
And it's fricking COVID and I'm

Mark (34:42):
losing, it's almost over.
And I, yeah.

Rebecca (34:44):
And, um, so they actually gave me a small grant
to help me, like pay my rent andstuff, which was super fricking
helpful.
So I did

Mark (34:52):
not know that story when I, when I asked you the
question.
So I, so I love that it cameout.

Rebecca (34:56):
I am, I mean, I believe in what they do.
I am a big, big proponent forthe mental health.
I preach it to my staff.
I, one of my kids uses it.
I mean, um, employees.
Mm-hmm.
I'm sorry, I call'em my kids.
I'm probably, I'm pretty sure atthis point I've given, I've done
bake sales and cookie, likewe've done cookie sale.

(35:19):
We, and I'm pretty sure I'vegiven back like three or four
times the amount that they gaveme.
That's,

Mark (35:24):
but

Rebecca (35:24):
it's never gonna be enough.

Mark (35:25):
But that's, but that's what it's about.
Right?

Rebecca (35:27):
Right.
It's never enough to me.
Somebody's there

Mark (35:28):
when we need them.

Rebecca (35:29):
Yeah.

Mark (35:30):
And then we're there for somebody when they need us.
That's exactly, that's, that'swhat makes the world go around.
Yeah.
And you want to keep living inthis, the crazy world we live in
right now.
Yeah.
The, the way that's gonna getbetter is if you take care of me
when I need to be taken care of,and I take care of you when you
need to be taken care of.
Yeah.

Rebecca (35:44):
like I said, for me it's.
I not only support it, but Iwant to give back to the people
who, who helped me

Francis (35:52):
and when you need to take care of somebody, the best
way to do that, I find is withpastry, is that spectacular Oreo
cookie thing you brought ustoday.
Oh my.
Oh, the SHO.
Oh my god.

Rebecca (36:01):
AKA, the sugar Hooker Oreo, because we got a cease and
desist from Nabisco and we hadto rename it.

Francis (36:06):
I love it.

Rebecca (36:07):
Um, yeah, it's.
I call cookies.
I call them edible hugs.

Francis (36:11):
They are.
Yes, a hundred percent they are.

Rebecca (36:13):
That's what they are.

Francis (36:14):
Well, so listen, if you are anywhere near Houston,
Texas, you gotta come and go tothe Fluff Bake Bar and check out
some of the stuff we're talkingabout.
Please do.
Pretty amazing.
Rebecca Mason, thank you so muchfor being with the restaurant
guys today.
Oh my God, thank you.
And thanks for the ice cream andthe pastries.
You're our favorite.
Yes.
Alright,

Rebecca (36:30):
thanks.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Thanks Ira.
Have a

Francis (36:32):
great

Rebecca (36:32):
day.
You too.
Appreciate you guys.
Thank you.
Appreciate you right back.
Thanks for being,

the-restaurant-guys_4_ (36:36):
Southern Smoke Foundation provides us
with one of the greatestopportunities to grab local
chefs and chefs from otherplaces.
We have Kyle Nall with us.
He's the chef and co-owner ofBirch.
And culinary director at StoneBank.
Farm in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
But here we are in Texas,together all the way down to
Texas.
Deep in the heart of Texas.
We both traveled, but here weare together.

(36:57):
Yeah, it's amazing.
Yeah, dude.
So I have to say, one of thethings, first of all, we heard
wonderful things about whatyou're doing.
You worked at a number of placesin New York where we have some
mutual friends, and the peopleyou work for, uh, are people we
respect a great deal.
you're in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
I think one of the mostinteresting things about cities,
and I think Houston sort offalls into this about restaurant

(37:18):
cities, is when people go tosecond cities and third cities
and you know, Milwaukee had nofood scene 20 years ago, right?
And it's full of people whohave, like you trained and, you
know, risen to high levels inbig cities and then said.
Screw this.
I want to go back to a moremanageable, smaller, smaller
community.
Definitely one of the thingsthat's happened in the last 20
years.
Right.
Tell us.
And I think people training inbig cities and then moving back

(37:39):
to community after COVID, Ithink it was like a huge, like,
uh, spearhead forward with withthings like that.
Tell us about Milwaukee and whyyou went there and what you
found when you went there.
My wife actually grew up inMilwaukee and that's, that's the
tie Uhhuh.
Um, I grew up in Birmingham.
We were in New York together forabout 13 years and I just
opened.

(37:59):
The Equinox Hotel was StevenStarr probably six months before
COVID.
In that six months we had ourfirst child, Aiden, he's born in
NYU and then two months later wesh shut the whole world closed.
Right?
Um, yeah, that was it.
And if you were in New York, youweren't open for, you weren't
open again for a long time.
I mean, truly, like I'm, wedidn't move to Milwaukee until

(38:21):
August that year.
And when I moved to Milwaukee, Iwas like, oof, this is a
different world than, yeah.
It was, was Milwaukee Open?
Uh, definitely more.
Yeah.
Um, and like the restaurantindustry people were definitely
worked doing takeout and stufflike that.
Mm-hmm.
We're in New York where I was,we stayed at, uh, my
sister-in-law's lake house inNew Jersey for five months.

(38:43):
Wow.
We thought we were gonna be outthere for two weeks and every
week I would talk to my directorat, at uh, star.
And then it was like, call meback next week.
Call me back next week.
And we, uh, enjoyed life.
Went to Costco once every twoweeks.
Yeah.
And that was it.
No.
Bought tons of food.
There was an upside to it, but Imean, it was terrifying.
We were closed.
Our source of income was shutdown.
We, we didn't realize, if, youknow what we had spent our whole

(39:04):
lives building was gonnaevaporate.
Yeah.
But truthfully, especially forme, I had older kids.
Right.
So I got to, that's reconnectwith my older kids.
was a great time to geteverybody together.
I mean, he was obviously anewborn and I spend every single
morning Yeah.
Or all day, every day with them.
And which is not a chef's life,right?
No.
And that's not how, it'samazing.
Like, and it chef's kids don'tgrow up that way normally.

(39:26):
And I met, like, we have a, a2-year-old daughter now, and
it's like, it's interesting forme to see the difference in
situations of like when he wasthat age.
Mm-hmm.
And when she is I really workhard to.
I spent a lot of time with thekids.
so there's a better work lifebalance out here than in New
York.
Even post COVID.
You think?
in Milwaukee, I mean, I, when wemoved, I was really, uh, nervous

(39:50):
personally of like, I was a NewYorker.
I was a chef in New York.
Mm-hmm.
That was me.
Yeah, I remember it becomes yourpersonality to a certain extent.
Yeah.
I remember traveling toBirmingham the first time from
Milwaukee and seeing people outand like I was always the New
York guy for these people I grewup with in Birmingham and now is
the guy from Milwaukee.
And I, I didn't know how toaccept it, but when I did, man,

(40:12):
it's a just amazing, well, letme, let me clarify a little bit
of what's going on.
Birch's appeared on the New YorkTimes list of the best
restaurants in America.
Yeah.
Right.
So you, you went out there andyou didn't open a little corner
pub.
You know, you went and you didsome amazing stuff out there.
What was that like?
What makes it one of the bestrestaurants in America?
Tell us what Birch is like whydid the New York Times include
you on that list?
You know?
Well, my wife and I, we didn'tgo back to New York for like

(40:35):
four years, but we'd go down toChicago to get our fix, to be
like, okay, we're in the city.
But we'd be driving back up toMilwaukee and say, you know
what, yeah, we miss a big, bigcity, but what we do inside the
wall is a birch.
That's up to us.
Yes.
And so like last two weeks ago,uh, a service director from EMP
Raymond Lee was at a wedding inMilwaukee.

(40:56):
Mm-hmm.
He's like, Milwaukee's awesome.
I walked around all day, but Iwalked in these doors and I
thought I was in New York.
And to me, like that's what's,to me, that's like the value
that I have.
I think everybody's experiencein life gives them value.
And to me, all of thoseexperiences of working and
receiving great hospitality iswhat gives me value.
Well, I mean, 33 years later, sowe opened our first restaurant

(41:19):
33 years ago and, you know, wetalked about being market driven
and seasonal, and, uh, we werein the middle of New Jersey,
right.
And people looked at us like,what's that?
What do you mean you're gonnamake a cocktail with an egg?
Right?
What?
You know, they just looked at uslike, like we were crazy.
And it, and it, there wasdefinitely a learning curve.
But if it's delicious, it'slike, I don't know, it's the

(41:42):
most.
Rewarding.
Sad.
I mean, everybody talks about, Ilove watching people happy eat.
Sure.
But like when you go moving toMilwaukee and people come to
Birch, they're like, holy, well,you know, we used to say, and
back in the day, we would say,you know, people would shake our
hands on the way out of the doorand it's like, oh, thank you
very much.
It was very nice.
You'd be like, Uhuh not goodenough.
Yeah.
We needed at least a few peopleat night.
Now I'm talking the nineties andthe aughts, right?

(42:04):
Where people would say, this wasa, what is this doing in the
middle of New Jersey?
Right.
Well, that mean that's, that'sthat, that's it to a t.
And to me, I say all the time,like, yeah, I want the food to
be delicious, but when I talk totables, it's, it's almost
comical.
I'll go from like this table,this table, this table in one
night, and they're like, wow.

(42:24):
The service and how we feel inthis restaurant is like you just
said, we seen, said, and that'swhat it's about.
Just said, I think the mostimportant quality a restaurant
can have.
How does it make you feel?
Hundred percent.
That it's all about.
Okay.
Because you can have the bestfood in the world.
And if I feel intimidated or Ifeel like, it's pretentious.
If I feel you're a jerk or Ifeel you're a jerk.

(42:46):
Yeah.
it doesn't matter.
I mean, France and I used totalk about this, this great, uh,
telian mecca that, that peopleloved, and we went to and we
were like.
I hate that place.
'cause Yeah, the mixologistsare, are making great drinks.
Yeah.
But it's about them and not us.
But they're standing 25 feetaway from you and not one of

(43:06):
them made eye contact withanybody in the room.
Right.
Like, what, what are you doing?
Yeah.
What are you doing?
You didn't connect at all.
And like truly in this momentright here with y'all.
It's pretty impressive how,looking at your eyes, you're
like, oh, they're listening andtalking.
You know, like, but it's like,it's true.
Like, I mean, I talk to so manypeople all the time and it's
like, it's pretty easy to saythis sucks or whatnot.

(43:29):
But it's amazing to like feel agenuine connection or like
you're listening and I mean, Iknow that's what y'all, y'all
do, but still it doesn't matter.
I mean, just like you're saying,best cocktail bar, Are you gonna
make eye contact?
Are you gonna take care of me?
And like and it doesn't exist, Ithink even more and more.
At the level where it should beeven better.
Well, people need it more.

(43:51):
Okay.
Yeah.
We have gotten to a world wherepeople need that connection in
the restaurant more than ever.
They're not getting it at work.
Right.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're not, they're not gettingit in unless they go to a, a
place that's going to give themwarmth.
People aren't getting the warmthin other places that they were
getting it.
Right.
Yeah.
Anywhere.
I mean, and everybody, you know,people talk about technology

(44:12):
and.
And I like, we can use thosethings to help us.
Mm-hmm.
uh, I don't wanna overthinkanything, but people, I think
we're irreplaceable.
Mm-hmm.
you can't feel like thatanywhere else.
And it's really cool to like, gosee in a hospital or get a
massage or any of these othertypes of hospitality.
They're great, but they don'tcapture every, you're not eating

(44:34):
there.
You're not tasting stuff.
You know what we always say towaiters, to the, to the hosts
for example, right?
Yeah.
People come into the restaurant.
One of the things I hate, you gointo a restaurant whether it's
busy or slow, and, and the firstthing the waiter says is, do you
have a reservation?
I'm like, stop.
Yeah.
They're coming in your house.
They're coming in your house.
Make a human connection witheyeballs.

(44:55):
We are in New York for theWelcome conference two weeks
ago, and I had three teammembers from Birch with me and
the last day before we flew out,and you know, I hate to.
You know, we went to Lake Cuckoofor lunch.
We are 45 minutes late.
We walked in and we're like, weare so sorry that we're late,
our Uber driver, blah, blah,blah.
And she goes, she did our hands.

(45:15):
I said, listen, we got you.
You're, you're here now.
That's all that matters.
And like to me, like if every,every dish to me, I don't.
Things were delicious.
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
But that's not what it's aboutfor me anymore.
It's like, if it's good, it'sgood.
Well, it needs to be delicious.
Well, yeah.
We start, it's a, we start at,it needs to be good.
Right.
I'm, I'm not going to arestaurant if it's not

(45:36):
delicious.
Right.
Well, but, but honestly.
You may go back to a restaurantwhere the food is mediocre, but
the people are really nice andit's around the corner.
Yeah, true.
You go back to a bar where thebartender's great, but I'll have
a bottle beer there.
'cause that guy can't make agoddamn martini to save his
life.
Yeah, yeah.
But, but I don't care how goodthe martini is.
If you're a jerk, I'm not goingback.
Right.
So it's about, like you said, ahuman connection.

(45:56):
Right.
Which I think you can make moreof out in Milwaukee.
I'll make one other observationis that.
When we started in New Jersey in1992, New Jersey, the, the
average diner in Central Jerseywas about six years behind the,
the sophisticated diner in NewYork.
Right.
'cause there wasn't Instagram,there wasn't the internet.
but hold on some of our diners,you know, worked in New York

(46:19):
City.
Yes.
Came in, ate in New York City.
Yes.
Understood what we were tryingto do.
Absolutely.
We had a sophisticated diner.
But now, even if you are.
In the middle of nowhere, peopleha watch the food channel and
they, they, and they, they, theywant to experience and they're
not saying, Ooh, don't put anegg in my drink.
They're like, oh, I saw that onTikTok.

(46:39):
Yeah, I wanna try that.
We think, or we know at Birch, Ihad a re a restaurant in New
York called Mayville for sevenyears and it was busy.
Like we got a great New YorkTimes review.
It was, I mean, it was great,but I never felt like there was
trust between.
People came, industry people toeat delicious food.
Sure.

(46:59):
But at Birch, if we have apop-up, if we do this, we do
that.
We have their trust.
And it's a different feelingthan, why do you think that?
I don't know.
And I, it's really like ourfirst year we would do stuff and
it was like, yeah, this wasgood.
But now it's like we have aguest chef come, we sell it out.
Like, and we don't do like a 60seat, like we just make it part

(47:23):
of our dinner service.
Mm-hmm.
And replace our tasting menu.
So we have a la carte and thenthe special menu, and we'll do
like 180 covers.
Wow, that's great.
And like, but it's, it's just,it's so interesting.
It's like people, I think weachieve everything we want to
every time.
So people are trusting us.
But it's like that, like, oh, Isaw something that someone was
eating an egg white and a drink.
Y'all have that.

(47:44):
People are like, you're ours.
You're Milwaukee's restaurant.
I love it.
Right.
I appreciate that.
That's great.
That's what you wanna be.
So we read a lot about howMilwaukee for years had, it's an
up and coming dining scene.
Uh, should people go toMilwaukee for the food, do a
culinary tour of Milwaukee Standhotel?
Yeah, I think so.
For sure.
Yeah, no doubt.
Where should they hit besidesyour place?
Uh, there's a restaurant calledZo Uhhuh.

(48:06):
there's actually a bagel shopcalled Alley Boys and a couple,
the husband worked at MeadowWood for a long time and has
like serious chops.
And of course people say thatall the time, but mm-hmm.
It is like genuinely like to meit's a New York bagel that's
like killer.
Well, maybe we'll do arestaurant guys Meetup
restaurateur in Milwaukee.
Yeah.
Restaurateur in Milwaukee.

(48:26):
And we'll start off, off atBirch.
That's great.
Yeah.
So we were talking abouthospitality before I was
watching another podcast thatyou were on, and I saw you
talking about, you know, if, ifit's been a crazy night and I
haven't gotten to go out intothe dining room and make a
couple rounds in the diningroom, I, I don't feel fulfilled.
Right.
I don't feel, I feel like I,like I didn't do it Right.

(48:47):
Right.
To me, it's, to me it's likereally attention driven.
Mm-hmm.
To me, we always, like, peoplejokingly say like, if we have a
bad night, which is like notreally bad, it's just like, it
wasn't completely fun.
It's a very small percentage,and I'll say to everybody, like,
but it happens.
Listen, every, you know, uh,the, the, somehow the restaurant
got overbooked somehow.

(49:08):
Yeah.
But something went wrong.
I always say like, good thingwe're professional.
Mm-hmm.
'cause it's still, it was stillgreat.
Right?
Right.
But if it's an amazing night, itsays, people are like, oh, I
feel like we're at a party atKyle's house, you know?
Mm-hmm.
90 seats and it's just everybodyhaving a great time.
If, if I'm not walking aroundand being able to do that, then
like there's too much focus onsomething and the fun is there.

(49:31):
That means there's not funeverywhere happening.
'cause most of the time in Dishbit on, uh, grill Station, no
matter where it is in therestaurant, it's all the same.
Right.
Different experiences.
But truly like the, if you couldlike take a measure of someone's
joy in their heart or howthey're being fulfilled in that
moment.
The level is probably the samefor everybody in the restaurant.

(49:52):
You know, I, I was at a friend'srestaurant in the Hamptons just
last week, and, I felt bad forhim.
Okay.
Famous chef, great restaurantfood was amazing.
but you could tell he wasrunning.
Sure.
Okay.
And he was, and he, and he madesure he spoke to everybody he
needs to talk to, but you couldjust see him hustling back to

(50:13):
the kitchen Yeah.
To make sure that it wasn't allcoming down right.
And it was great.
Food was great.
He, he executed, but you could,you could feel that it wasn't,
but I think like the, it wasn'tthat perfect night.
The really top nights, there'sthat energy at the same time.
Mm-hmm.
People can see it and are likelit up with it.
Know?
Yeah, a hundred percent.
It can be a great thing.
It's, I always talk about likewhen I'm talking to sous chefs

(50:34):
about riding or service staff atlineup, throwing the Frisbee,
like, I like throwing theFrisbee.
If you and I went outside andjust started ripping it long
ways, we couldn't, it wouldn'tbe very, there'd be no rhythm.
So you build a rhythm up andthen you just start letting it
rip.
Yeah.
And then when you're doing that,it's like, wow, this is fun.
And that's like eight o'clock ona Friday where like we're

(50:55):
nailing it and just like.
Having a blast.
Well, dude, I wanna thank youfor taking the time out of
Southern Smoke to come and talkwith us at the restaurant, guys,
and, uh, who knows, maybe you'llsee us in Milwaukee one of these
days.
Yeah, that would be awesome tohave you for sure.
Hey, if you're in New Jersey,frankly, if you're in New York
City Yeah.
And you don't get on that trainand go 45 minutes to New
Brunswick, New Jersey and walkthose three blocks, we're gonna
be pissed off.
Okay.

(51:15):
I'll be there, brother.
All right, thanks a bunch.
Yeah.
Appreciate it.
Thanks man.
Yeah, thank you Kyle.
Good to see you.
That was awesome.
Thanks.
I'd love to have you all outthere.
Alright, love it.
Grab a chip.

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