TEASER! Charlie Trotter Gives Lessons in Excellence *V*

This is  TEASER of a Vintage Selection from 2005

The Banter

The Guys talk about their restaurant philosophy and how cultivating a team of people who share your vision is what will sustain you. However, Francis does not share Mark’s vision of going to a Cub’s game.

The Conversation

The Restaurant Guys are thrilled to have Charlie Trotter on the show to talk about excellence, foie gras and a restaurant that he had planned to open in New York that never came to fruition.

The Inside Track

The Guys have been fans of Charlie’s for a long time yet did not fully realize their similar attitudes on experiential dining.

“ The vision we've had here has been to try to deliver an experience where the food part of it, the service part of it, the wine and beverage part of it, and the ambiance all add up to something greater than the sum of the parts.

So with myself as the chef-operator obsessing about food, almost to the point where it's perverse, I still don't even think that food is the most important part of the dining experience,” Charlie Trotter on The Restaurant Guys Podcast 2025 

Bio

Charlie Trotter opened Charlie Trotter’s Restaurant in 1987. Twice it received two Michelin stars. He closed it in 2012. Restaurant Charlie in Las Vegas received the Michelin Guide One Star Award. He opened other concepts such as a high-end delicatessen store and a seafood restaurant in Mexico.

He received the James Beard Foundation Humanitarian of the Year Award for his philanthropic work.

Trotter was the host of the 1999 PBS cooking show The Kitchen Sessions with Charlie Trotter.

Info

Charlie’s Book (mentioned in the show)

Lessons in Excellence from Charlie Trotter

by Paul Clarke

Guest Chef Dinner Series at Charlie Trotter’s 2025 

https://www.charlie-trotters.com/

If you’d like to hear the full 2009 conversation, listen here:

https://www.restaurantguyspodcast.com/episode-26-charlie-trotter

We will have a Halloween pop-up bar in Stage Left Steak Oct 27-Nov 1.

We're hosting Pam Starr to showcase her wines at a Crocker & Starr wine dinner on Oct 16. https://www.stageleft.com/event/101625-winemaker-dinner-with-crocker-starr/

Our Sponsors

The Heldrich Hotel & Conference Center
https://www.theheldrich.com/

Magyar Bank
https://www.magbank.com/

Withum Accounting
https://www.withum.com/

Our Places

Stage Left Steak
https://www.stageleft.com/

Catherine Lombardi Restaurant
https://www.catherinelombardi.com/

Stage Left Wineshop
https://www.stageleftwineshop.com/

To hear more about food, wine and the finer things in life:
https://www.instagram.com/restaurantguyspodcast/
https://www.facebook.com/restaurantguys

Reach Out to The Guys!
[e-mail]

**Become a Restaurant Guys Regular and get two bonus episodes per month, bonus content and Regulars Only events.**
Click Below!
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2401692/subscribe

Episode Transcript

Mark (01:50):
Morning, Francis.
Good morning, mark.
Pretty special show today.

Francis (01:54):
Very special show today everyone.
We have as a guest, uh, comingup a little bit later, we're
gonna be talking with CharlieTrotter.
And, uh, Charlie Trotter, forthose of you who don't know if
you've been living under a rocksomewhere, uh, is perhaps the
most influential chef inAmerica.
His restaurant Charlie Trottersin Chicago has been called the
Best Restaurant in the world forWine and Food by Wine Spectator

(02:14):
Magazine.
Um, he's been called the BestRestaurant in America by several
magazines.
He has five stars from theMobile Travel Guide, five
Diamonds from aaa.
he's a member of Re and Chateauand, and he's an author of o
over a dozen books, um, some ofwhich have.
Been very important to us.
Uh, and he's the father of ageneration of, of American
cooks.

(02:34):
You can't

Mark (02:35):
really get much bigger than that, can you, chef?

Francis (02:36):
No.
You can't get bigger thanTrotter.
That's, that's pretty cool.
So he's gonna come and talk tous, um, a little bit later.
And one of the interestingthings about Chef Trotter is
gonna be opening a restaurant inNew York.

Mark (02:46):
Yeah, that's gonna be great.

Francis (02:48):
Well, and something that's, that is a little unusual
about in, in an era of chefsthat, you know, sort of grow as
superstar chefs and havemultiple television shows and
open restaurants all acrossAmerica and restaurants on two
continents and in multiplecountries.
Charlie Trotter's been doingthis for 17 years, and he's been
at, you know, rated among thebest restaurants in the country,
uh, from the very beginning.
And he right from the start, andhe has a lot of celebrity.

(03:09):
Um, but he's gone very, veryslowly in expanding.
Mm-hmm.
And that's one of the reasonsTrotter's remains.

Mark (03:16):
Well, he is done a lot of books and a lot of cookbooks and
even a, even a television show.
But, uh, as far as his, hisrestaurants expanding, you know,
it's been one little piece at atime.
Um, and I really respect that.

Francis (03:27):
Absolutely.
And when, and so his, his newrestaurant that is gonna be
opening in the Time WarnerCenter in New York, uh, coming
this spring or summer, I thinkit'll be opening in the summer
is, is pretty exciting.
Thing for us here in the Eastcoast to be able to try some of
that food without flying 1500miles to do so.
You know, actually try to, manyof you may remember there was a
chef named David Drake who ranthe stage house in, in Scotch

(03:48):
Plains for a long time.
That's changed ownership and Ithink they're still doing well.
But David, I think when he wascooking, was probably the best
chef cooking in New Jersey.
Um, no offense to any of my manychef friends, but David was, and
man, I know many of them agree.
He was, he's an amazinglytalented chef and he was the O
chef owner.
And one year he took his entirekitchen staff to Trotters for
dinner.
Flew them out to Chicago,

Mark (04:09):
flew them to Chicago dinner.
for Chef Trotter.
I mean, I think that would besuch a compliment that somebody
would, who is in their ownrespect, a very, very good chef.
But say, you know what?
You wanna see who's really doingit right.
Let's go to Chicago.
I'll fly you all out there.
We'll spend the weekend andwe'll go to Trotters and see.
What the best restaurant inAmerica's doing

Francis (04:25):
and you know, we, we are really, we're the restaurant
guys, but we haven't been toTrout's restaurant and that's
have

Mark (04:29):
not,

Francis (04:29):
that's a big hole.
We need to fly to Chicago, likethis weekend, Chicago,

Mark (04:32):
I haven't been to Chicago since about 85, so it's not
fair.
Well, he wasn't open yet.

Francis (04:36):
But though we haven't been to, Trout's restaurant, we
have take, we've taken a lot ofinfluence from him.
One of his proteges, a womannamed Roxanne Klein, we were big
fans of her restaurant.
Whenever we'd go buying wine inCalifornia mm-hmm.
We would stop into herrestaurant and, uh, she was a
protege of his.
Hopefully we'll talk with ChefRader about.
Her and, and his involvement inraw

Mark (04:52):
food, raw that, I mean, his book Raw, I think kind of
was a whole new revolution forfood for, just a whole new
generation of people that peopledidn't even consider this as
being a, a, a, a line

Francis (05:04):
of cuisine.
And we're gonna talk about rawfood with Chef Trotter in, in a
moment or two, but, but he'sinfluenced us through his books
and his books.
Some of his books are cookbooks,but some of his books.
Are are just, they're, they'reused as, um, as guides for
business people in general, amanagement tool for anyone
involved in any sort of project,whether it's business or not.
And one of the books, which,which meant a lot to us mm-hmm.
Was lessons and excellence, whatwas funny is many of the things

(05:26):
that we found in that book.
We found that we operate on asimilar philosophy.
And many of the things that wefound in that book that we
hadn't previously, uh, operatedunder mm-hmm.
We then adopted as our ownphilosophy.
But I was struck by a quote inthe book where he said, and this
is a quote from, uh.
Lessons in Excellence by CharlieTrady says, I've very rarely
brought in anyone from theoutside.
I've always brought people up,trained them exactly the way I

(05:46):
want to train them, and as aresult, they helped me to
execute the vision that they'velearned.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, I don't know ifthat was for him, the way he
decided he always wanted to dothings, but Mark and I, we've
run Stage Left, which ThankHeaven has, has received, you
know, a claim is one of the bestrestaurants in Jersey.
We've been there for 13 yearsand that's how we do things,
right.

(06:06):
Almost everyone who works for ushas come up.
From a, a busing position, and Idon't think that was intentional
when we started, including ournature D Yeah.
Right.
Who's been with us for 11 yearsor, or, or so.

Mark (06:17):
Well, one of the things that, that I realized very early
on it, it really didn't takevery much time, is that
experience sometimes can be bad.
If you work with somebody who's,gotten bad habits from somebody
else, you need to reteach thatperson.
Much more difficult thanteaching someone is to unteach
them and then teach them again.
And also, you know, a lot ofrestaurants, certainly in this

(06:38):
area, people just don't have theright attitude.
They, they don't have the rightattitude about restaurants that
it, that it's the person sittingin the seat needs to perceive
nothing but magic happening attheir tables.
And the answer to, to allquestions should always be yes,
or of course.

Francis (06:52):
Well, I think also that, and again, we didn't start
with this as a policy, we justfound ourselves, we always said,
you know, our favoriterelationships are long-term
relationships.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and so we have veryfour of the restaurants in this
area, we have very low turnover.
We have a number of peoplewho've been with us four in five
years.
Mm-hmm.
And they're the most valuablepeople.
Because these are people, yeah.
They're waiters in therestaurant, they're captains or
sommelier or the MA of mage inthe restaurant.

(07:14):
But there are also people thatwe, at the end of the night, we
sit down and we say, you knowwhat, what about what happens
tonight?
Or what do you think abouttaking the restaurant in this
new direction?
Mm-hmm.
And there are people whoseopinions are really important
'cause you're all following thesame dream,

Mark (07:26):
you know, in, in, and actually I was rereading through
lessons in excellence lastnight.
One of the things that I, that Iremembered that, that really was
similar in the twoorganizations.
Most of our employees work forus, either fewer than 30 days or
more than four years.
Yeah.
And, and the reason for that is.
It's a very hard job and mostpeople aren't cut out for it.

(07:47):
Most people aren't cut out to bethe best to do, to be the
absolute top of the top.

Francis (07:53):
But it's not only that it's too hard, but it's also,
it's not only too hard, it'sthat you have to really be into
it.
Mm-hmm.
I think that people who work forus make good money, but.
It's not, it's not enough.
Mm-hmm.
We're much too hard to work for.
Right.
We're much too mean to work for.
Um, if it's just about the moneythey have to love great food and
love great wine and it needs tobe people who are into food and
wine and people who read andpeople who.

(08:14):
People get it and people whoneed to be great about this.
I,

Mark (08:16):
I, one of the things I say to all our employees, or
actually all, all ourapplicants, when I'm trying to
scare them off, and I, and trulywhen I'm interviewing somebody,
once they've gotten to thatsecond interview with me, I am
trying to scare them off.
I'm trying to make sure theyunderstand all the bad things
that are, that are gonna happento them.
And I tell'em they have to havethree qualities that have to be
reasonably intelligent.

(08:37):
They have to be extremelyhardworking, and they have to
have a desire to be the best.
Because if you don't have thedesire to be the best, it's not
worth it.
It's just not worth it.
The difference between good andvery good is relatively small as
compared to the differencebetween very good and excellent

Francis (08:51):
and, and you're also trying to scare them away
because if they come and workfor you for a week and then
they, they run from the roommm-hmm.
Burst into tears and run fromthe room, then you've wasted
their time and yous being,speaking of being the best
though, we're gonna speak withCharlie Trotter, who has been
called by many, uh, the bestchef in America when we come
back and Charlie will be talkingwith, with us about his new
restaurant he's gonna be openingin New York as well as.
His myriad interests, and themany people as he's influenced

(09:12):
over the years.
So do stay tuned to therestaurant guys,

Mark (09:15):
Hello and welcome back.
You're listening to Mark Pascaland Francis Shot.
We are the restaurant guys.
Today our special guest is ChefCharlie Trotter from Trotters in
Chicago, author and manextraordinaire.
Uh, one of the things that, thatChef Trotter is, and it's really
hard to explain this, A greatrestaurant owner has to be a lot

(09:36):
of things, and a, and a greatchef owner has to be even more
things.
I mean, he's an ownerbusinessman, he's a chef,
artistic director, he's amarketeer, and he's mare d.
Service director, very, veryrarely in the world do you see
somebody who is extraordinary atall those things.
And I wanna introduce our guest,chef Charlie Trotter, who is

(09:56):
indeed extraordinary at allthose things.
Welcome to the show, chefTrotter.

Charlie (10:00):
Thank you very much.
I'm, I'm delighted to be withyou today.

Francis (10:02):
It's nice to have you.
We were talking, uh, just beforeyou came on about your book
Lessons in Excellence, which,uh, mark and I run a, a small
restaurant here in, in Jersey.
Well, it's not so small anymore.
We run a medium sized restaurantin here in Jersey for the last
13 years, but.
When I read your book Lessonsand Excellence, it was literally
in one sitting.
I started in the afternoon and Ijust went plowed straight on
through.
what prompted you to write thesebooks on more than just cooking?

(10:25):
I mean, you have books on anumber of different issues.

Charlie (10:29):
Well, I, over the years, historically, we have,
um, used a lot of outsideanalogies to what we do in order
to help, uh, educate the staff.
And so when we've.
Conducted staff meetings and,and instructional seminars.
It's not just relating specificideas regarding life in a
restaurant or, or servicetechnique or culinary ideology.

(10:51):
It's, it's bringing a lot ofoutside influences in and it's
relating the restaurant businessto other types of properly run
businesses.
And so we felt that there wereenough things that were in place
here that we could set them outas examples and have people take
a look and, uh, and draw fromthat and have perhaps people
apply some of these ideas.
To their own businesses,regardless if they were

(11:12):
restaurants or not.