TEASER! John Scharffenberger: Winemaker to Chocolatier

This is a Vintage Selection from 2007

The Conversation

The Restaurant Guys talk with John Scharffenberger about his premium line of chocolate which is the first “bean to bar” chocolate made in the United States. John talks about the history, sourcing and the crucial details in creating some of the finest chocolate in the world!

The Inside Track

The Guys were fans of John’s sparkling wine and are fans of his chocolate. This is how John describes his on-the-job training after his career shift. 

“ I think we were just stupid when we started and the only way we knew how to do things were the way I had done things in the wine business [which] was just to be really careful about flavor. So we treated the beans like we used to treat grapes. We did blind tastings, we did lots of blind tastings, and only accepted beans that had flavors that we liked,” John Scharffenberger on The Restaurant Guys Podcast 2007

Bio

John Scharffenberger started Scharffenberger Cellars known for their world-class California sparkling wine. He left the winery and started Scharffen Berger Chocolates in 1997 with Robert Steinberg. 

Info

John’s cookbook

Essence of Chocolate: Recipes for Baking and Cooking with Fine Chocolate

By John Scharffenberger and Rober Steinberg

Scharffen Berger Chocolate is no longer owned by John Scharffenberger and Robert Steinberg. It was acquired by Hershey in 2005, went back to private ownership in 2020 then acquired by Harry and David in 2024. 

If you want John’s Hot Chocolate recipe, email [e-mail]

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Episode Transcript

Francis (01:08):
Hello everybody and welcome back.
You're listening to theRestaurant Guys, mark and
Francis of Stage LustingKatherine Lombardi Restaurants
in downtown New Brunswick, andtoday our guest is Mr.
Chocolate himself.
John Scharffenberger, whofounded Charfen Berger Cellars,
one of the premier sparklingwine cellars in the United
States.
He, uh, sold his interest inthat, uh, the winery in 1996.
he, together with his partnerRobert Steinberg, started,

(01:30):
Scharfenberg Chocolates.
If you haven't had Scharfenbergchocolate, you've been living
under a rock somewhere becauseit's one of the preeminent
American chocolates.
And he is also written a bookcalled The Essence of Chocolate
Recipes for Baking and Cookingwith Fine Chocolate.

Mark (01:43):
John, welcome to the show.

John (01:45):
It's great to be here.

Mark (01:47):
So, so John, why couldn't you make champagne and
chocolate?
Why did it have to be one or theother?
Man?

John (01:51):
Uh, you know, it's, it's, it's good to try your hand at,
at different things, you know,and, uh, I got to the point in
the, in the wine business wheremy partners, figured it out,
that they wanted to go on withthings.
They just wanted me to kind ofhelp sell it.
And I said, oh, forget it.
I'd rather help make somethinguhhuh.
And so I moved on and waslooking for another project and
ran into an old friend of mine,Robert Steinberg, who had this

(02:12):
great idea about makingchocolate.
And I said, oh my gosh, it'sjust the same kind of thing I
did when I was in the wine.
I said, you know, why?
Why?
Why does all the good champagnehave to be French?
Um.
And so I worked on, onCalifornia Sparkling Wine, and I
did the same with chocolate.
And, and I think we've donepretty well with our chocolate.

Mark (02:31):
Well, you've really become one of, certainly one of, if not
the preeminent American, uh,chocolatier as far as somebody
actually making a.
Find chocolate.

John (02:41):
Well, you know, you know, there aren't too many people
actually making chocolate in theUnited States.
I think there's 13 companies inthe, in the

Francis (02:46):
country.
Chocolate.
Well, let's, let's make thatdistinction right up front.
Let's talk about the differencebetween, you know, being a, a
Bon Bonier and a, and a ChocolaLaier.
Someone who makes.
Candy out of chocolate andsomeone who makes the chocolate
itself talk to us about makingchocolate.

John (03:01):
Yeah, actually, so, so what to make chocolate, you, you
have to buy beans, uh, which areco cacao or cocoa beans.
we import these beans from allkinds of different countries
than Venezuela, um, Ghana,Dominican Republic.
Um, they all have reallyinteresting flavors.
We, we put them together in, indifferent blends to make
different chocolates, uh,actually to, and then to, to

(03:22):
actually make the chocolate.
We have to roast the beans, takethe shells off, grind them down
with sugar.
you know, it, it sounds simple,but it's, it's, um, a lot of
machinery.
A a

Francis (03:30):
actually no, no, it doesn't.
It sounds like it's, it's a heckof a lot more complicated than
buying chocolate in bulk andmaking candies out of it.

John (03:39):
Yeah.
So, no, a lot of people will dothis.
They'll, they'll actually buy comatch or, or cocoa liquor from
one of the big companies andthey'll mix up the liquor and
then, and then, uh, basically,uh, already.
Partially made chocolate.
Um, and then they'll add intheir own sugar and milk and all
that stuff.
So that's an, um, a lot of candybars, a lot of chocolate bar
companies.
I

Mark (03:58):
think you better tell people what chocolate liquor is.

John (04:00):
Chocolate liquor is actually, um, it's also
basically chocolate.
It's already been, you know, um,made.
So basically somebody who buysthe beans.
and grinds them down.
Um, and, uh, and then sells itthat way.
and that's the way mostchocolate makers are.
So, uh, the only people who workwith beans are the, about the 13
companies I talked about.

Francis (04:18):
Why, why go to all that trouble to, to make chocolate
from the bean?

John (04:24):
Because that's where the flavor is.
You know, we, we really had togo all the way back, uh, to, to
the bean.
And, and, and that's where we'refinding the real difference in
flavor is, uh, we work withdifferent, uh, growers and the
growers tend to be villages orcooperative.
Uh, you know, either inVenezuela or, or in Dominican
Republic So they're very smallsources of, of, of really

(04:46):
exquisite flavors that, uh, webuy and, and then can, can use.
And I don't think you get that,um, when you, you know, you're
buying somebody else's liquor.

Francis (04:55):
Well, now do, is it that you, you are able to source
superior beans or is it what youdo to the beans after you get
them that makes Charfen Burgerchocolate different than, you
know, some chocolate from a big,big company?

John (05:07):
You know, I think we were just stupid when we started and
the only way we knew how to dothings were, the way I had done
things in the wine business wasjust to be really careful about
flavor.
Um, so we treated the beans likewe used to treat grapes.
You know, we, we did blindtastings, um, and we did lots of
blind tastings, only acceptedbeans that had flavors that we
liked.
Um, and so I think Robert and Iboth.

(05:30):
You know, kind of developed thissystem together where we, we
were just very careful about it,and I think it shows in the
eventual chocolate

Mark (05:37):
in the food business and in the wine business, we do a
lot of, uh, things that we callblind tastings.
And what, and what a blindtasting is, is, is just what it
sounds like.
We don't know.
From, from where the productscome from.
And we'll taste 2, 3, 4, 10, 20different, uh, products and
decide which one we like thebest without necessarily knowing
from, from where they come or,or the origin.

(05:59):
And then, and then make our, ourpurchasing decisions from that.

John (06:03):
Right, right.
And it, it, it's a great way togo because you know, in a sense
you're, you're just.
Really honing in on, on, youknow, what the, what, you know,
what, where the rubber meets theroad.
And that's really, uh, theexperience of flavor

Francis (06:15):
in the, in the finished product with the flavors.
How do you think the flavors ofCharfen Burger Chocolate are
distinct and different from theother chocolates that are
available on the market?

John (06:23):
I, I don't know how they are, they just are.
We, we have, you know, we havethe flavor of caca in art, in
our chocolate.
Um, we also don't process veryheavily, so, uh, we don't have
to use a lot of sugar.
We have of not very sweetchocolate.
Um, uh, in, in general, ourchocolate doesn't have a lot of
sweetness,

Mark (06:40):
Which means you can do anything you want with it.
Sweet.
Not sweet.
You know, sugar is, is issomething very easy to add.

John (06:47):
E Exactly.
And, and also not having a lotof sugar, um, means that the
other things have to taste good.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, sugar sort of

Mark (06:55):
covers that.
Sure.
Sugar can be a be a mask.

John (06:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, uh, so basically you end uptasting a lot more chocolate.

Mark (07:02):
The same exact same thing in wine too.
People use sugar as a mask.

Francis (07:05):
Our guest is John Scharffenberger.
Now you know the nameScharffenberger from Chocolate
that you see all around.
John also has a book out calledThe Essence of Chocolate Recipes
for Baking and Cooking with FineChocolate.
Now, this is a recipe book forchocolate, which is a, a great
holiday gift, I think, or foranyone who likes chocolate,
which is everyone I know.
Um, but it's not just a recipebook.

(07:27):
There's really the story ofchocolate in here.
What story are you trying totell with the book besides just
giving people recipes as to howto use your chocolate?

John (07:33):
Well, we're, we're trying to, you know, tell the story
that, you know, all the storieswe've learned, uh, over the last
nine years.
Because having come to it, tous, everything was pretty new.
So we want to let people know,