May 8, 2025 • 10 mins
This is a Vintage Selection from 2007
The Conversation
The Restaurant Guys speak with Lettie Teague about her articles “The Secret Life of a Wine Salesperson” and “The Secret Life of a Sommelier.” Lettie gets a behind the scenes look into the selling of wine both to restaurants and to consumers. Hear how good shoes and avoiding coffee can lead to success.
The Inside Track
The Guys invite Lettie on the show after reading her insider articles about getting wine from the distributor into restaurants then into the glasses of consumers. Lettie says this about Food & Wine magazine.
“It is half of our name and we really make a point to have it in every possible place, not just in bottles recommended or profiles of winemakers or stories but also absolutely every dish that it's appropriate to. So, our commitment to wine is profound,” Lettie Teague on The Restaurant Guys Podcast 2007
Bio
Lettie Teague has been The Wall Street Journal’s wine columnist for 15 years. Before joining the Journal in 2010, Lettie was the executive wine editor and columnist for Food & Wine magazine.
She has won three James Beard awards for her wine writing and is the author of three books: “Wine in Words” and “Educating Peter,” and "Dear Readers and Riders," a biography of best-selling children's book author Marguerite Henry. She is also the co-author and illustrator of “Fear of Wine" and was inducted into the Wine Media Hall of Fame in 2015.
Info
Lettie’s article “Secret Life of a Wine Salesmen”
https://www.foodandwine.com/wine/secret-life-of-a-wine-salesman
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Francis (00:41):
Hey everybody.
Welcome back.
You're listening to theRestaurant Guys.
Mark and Francis are staged,left in Captain Lombardi
restaurants in downtown NewBrunswick.
Our guest today is Letty Teague.
Letty is the executive wineeditor of Food and Wine
Magazine, one of our favorites.
And you've heard us talk aboutit many times before.
Hey, Leddy.
Hey there.
How are you?
I'm
Lettie (00:57):
doing just fine.
How?
Welcome
Francis (00:58):
to the show.
Lettie (00:59):
Good to be here.
Francis (00:59):
Um.
I was prompted to, to ask myproducer, to get you to come on
the show when I saw an, anarticle you did recently called
The Secret Life of a WineSalesman.
Right.
Which I love, because I rememberthat you had done an article
prior to that called The SecretLife of a som, yet.
Lettie (01:14):
Wow.
You have a very good memory.
Francis (01:15):
Well, you know, they were very close.
I was like, Hey, is this arepeat?
No.
Lettie (01:19):
Keep using that word secret.
It's a very secretiveenterprise.
Francis (01:23):
I like it.
It's very, it's very sexy.
It draws you in.
Mark (01:25):
Maybe you should have said the underground life of a wine
salesman.
Lettie (01:29):
Well, I guess that'll be part three.
Francis (01:30):
So just to explain to our listeners, what Letty did
was she went and she worked as asommelier in a restaurant, where
a friend of ours, Tim Kopec, isthe, the head sommelier.
And when you worked there, EricZiller, who's also been on the
show as a sommelier.
Uh, and then for this mostrecent article, you packed your
bag and, and went out with awine sales rep.
Lettie (01:47):
Yeah.
Uh, from a company called MartinScott has a great portfolio and,
um, some very strong salesmenwho are willing to carry many
bottles of wine.
Yeah, yeah,
Francis (01:56):
exactly.
I could, I could never do that.
I have so many friends who arein the wine sales business, and
I just, and I want to talk aboutwhy I could, I could never be a
wine salesman, but I have been.
Lettie (02:04):
Is it
Francis (02:04):
physical
Lettie (02:05):
or
Francis (02:05):
psychological?
Psychological.
It's definitely psychologicaldifferences, definitely.
But both components, sir.
Well, let's talk about thedifference between being a
sommelier and a wine salesman.
I mean, for me, that the biggestthing is if you're, if you're a
sommelier, the person is in yourdining establishment and you're
helping'em select which thing,right?
If you're a wine salesman,you've got a.
They can say no.
Right, right.
(02:26):
You know,
Lettie (02:26):
well, you're selling though, in either case.
but certainly you're, youcertainly have more control, um,
when you're the sommelier.
At least.
you've got to buy something inthe beginning to sell it as
opposed to just being there, youknow, um, selling it.
So you have, uh, sensibly, atleast a degree more control.
and certainly stability and, andcertainly, uh, well actually
both are, both of them are alsolike incredibly physically
demanding.
(02:46):
Um, and that was one thing that,that I was, really struck by
when I was the soli egg.
I mean,'cause I, I certainlyhaving been, uh, um, a failure
of a wine salesperson, um, nomatter how much, how many miles
I travel n many bottles Icarried.
Oh, I never seemed to actuallysell enough.
You weren't a closer?
Um, no.
Said, oh, you don't want thisfine.
Okay.
Link away.
Francis (03:07):
Well, I think a lot of people wonder what it would be
like.
Uh, and, and as more and moreconsumers have a little bit of
wine knowledge and to be thatthe sommelier sort of the
dashing person who knows a lotabout a lot of different things,
there's
Lettie (03:18):
a lot more glamor in being a sommelier.
Mark (03:20):
There is wine to open.
That's, think, I think there'salso another factor here when
you're a sommelier, you where,how it's different than most.
Other sales jobs, I think, and,and certainly a wine salesman
would be one of those.
You get to sell something theypeople want, but don't
necessarily need.
Lettie (03:37):
Right,
Mark (03:38):
right.
Or don't understand.
They want your guidance.
Exactly.
And in most other cases, asalesperson is selling something
that maybe you need but don'tnecessarily want,
Lettie (03:47):
or, or neither.
You neither nor wanted.
Right?
More honestly, that's the case.
Mark (03:51):
Unfortunately, I've known a lot of salesmen selling
things.
Francis (03:53):
Exactly that Paul got a case category.
That's worst.
That's the worst case scenario.
So now just so we, we clarifyfor our audience who, who, who
may not know a sommelierbasically is a, is the wine
waiter.
It's the guy on the floor.
His job is to, to bring you thewine, serve you the wine, know
what wines are there so we cananswer any questions for you.
Lettie (04:11):
Right.
Mark (04:11):
Hopefully he's also the person purchasing the
Francis (04:13):
wine.
Exactly.
So that you Right, exactly.
They
Lettie (04:14):
explained why that wine is on the list to begin with and
then we'll have tasted all thosewines on the list and can
actually answer questionsintelligently.
Francis (04:21):
And I should say, and I should say he or she.
So you went to maybe the, the,the best wine restaurant in
Manhattan and got one of thebest For sure.
Yeah.
Certainly for Wine for one is Iwould say Veritas.
Right?
That's what thinks S true Ithink are sort of neck and neck
right now.
Lettie (04:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Francis (04:37):
Well.
So what was the most surprisingthing you found from, from
stepping onto the floor as asommelier?
Lettie (04:42):
Um, well, specific to the restaurant, uh, Veritas.
The, the, the extraordinaryrevelation for me was the, was
um, the fact that Tim and his,um, his guys were tasting every
single bottle that went outthere, and then, so they, they
tasted, you know, they wouldtaste a$10,000 wine.
Um, and, and so the ability totaste, uh, uh, the opportunity
razza taste was, was tremendoussaid, um, for that and, and the
(05:04):
kinds of wines they're selling.
Were just extraordinary.
I mean, the, that, um, you know,my favorite phrase that uh, and
I learned was a buck.
They said that, that that winecost a buck.
And I thought, wow.
They said, no, a buck is ahundred dollars, but wine that's
two bucks.
Well that's$200.
And it was amazing how many winefor two bucks.
Francis (05:23):
So two, so two buck Chuck takes on a whole different
connotation there.
I guess.
Lettie (05:27):
Now the same thing at Veritas.
Francis (05:29):
Actually, that's a great point that you bring up
that, that.
We, we use like Veritas in ourrestaurants, we use formal
service, which is where thecaptain or the sommelier pours
out a taste and tastes the winehim or herself, right.
Before pouring the host to theparty.
Right.
Right.
A, a, a taste as well, and a,which is
Lettie (05:45):
a great idea.
That's a great idea for so manyreasons, but it was also
remarkable to me, not so much aVeritas'cause they have a very,
they get a.
Pretty educated clientele.
Um, I was a very educatedclientele, but people would
sometimes say, wait a minute,that's my wine.
Mark (05:58):
Yes, that's exactly what I was about to say.
That's where we go.
Occasionally you get, you getthe customer says, you're
drinking my wine.
Right.
But they said, well, we're also
Lettie (06:06):
saving you a, on the experience of a bad wine, or B,
potential humiliation.
No.
Should you, you know, acceptthis and, and find out later as
court.
I,
Francis (06:13):
I think that's interesting.
We actually will occasionallyget letters of complaint, people
say, and I've never seen thatbefore in my life, and I've
eaten at the best restaurants inthe world.
And
Lettie (06:21):
so that never happens in Applebee's.
Yeah, yeah.
Francis (06:25):
we should explain to people that, that In a great
restaurant, especially now thatin wines there's a problem,
there are problems with more andmore wines being corked or being
selected.
Mark (06:33):
There are, and there are some really good restaurants
that don't taste your wine.
And I mean Sure,
Lettie (06:36):
sure.
It's really, you know, um, uh,it's an individual
Francis (06:39):
choice, but, but to explain why the sommelier is
tasting your wine beforepresenting it to you is it's a
check on quality because thereare flawed bottles of wine.
I would say one in a hundredbottles of wine has something
wrong with it these days.
Mark (06:50):
Yeah.
Oh, I, I would say it's evenmore than that.
The number's definitely rising,
Lettie (06:54):
but I think that, that is, is first and foremost the
reason why, I mean that, thatis, uh, the reason why, I mean,
secondary may be way down there,but for me personally, it also
to get an opportunity to tastesome amazing wines that, you
know,
Francis (07:05):
well, you know, that's the other thing otherwise might
get to, you know, if you, if youwant an educated wine, uh,
staff,
Lettie (07:11):
right?
They have to be able to mm-hmm.
Know what it is.
I mean, the
Francis (07:13):
sommelier Veritas makes a good living, but he certainly
doesn't make enough to bedrinking.
$12,000 bottles of wine everynow, oh,
Lettie (07:18):
I don't know, maybe.
So a lot of wine
Francis (07:22):
there.
Those tips can be really good.
We'll be talking more with LetyTeague, executive wine editor of
Food and Wine Magazine.
Let you, were we're talkingabout your experiences when you
as a, as a journalisticassignment went and, uh, worked
on the floor of one of the topwine restaurants in Manhattan.
A sommelier and you said it wasvery physically demanding and I
think people don't realize, I, Ihaven't bartended in, I don't
(07:43):
know, a long time.
Lettie (07:44):
And
Francis (07:44):
we recently opened another bar and I went behind
the bar and I trained thebartenders and I worked a couple
of shifts.
Lettie (07:49):
Right.
You're exhausted.
It's
Francis (07:51):
brutal.
Mark and I, mark and I used towork 14 hour shifts back to back
like five in a row.
Didn't hurt me when I was 26.
Right.
40 killing me.
Yeah.
So what was so physicallydemanding about being a simul
yet?
Lettie (08:02):
Well, you know, in, in the case of the restaurant ton,
first of all, in general, um,they're always on their feet.
They absolutely never sit down.
So you figure it takes their,um, on their feet from, from
four 30 or five o'clock to 11 or12.
Um, and in the case of Veritas,uh, and in many restaurants,
the, the seller is down, um, aflight of stairs
Francis (08:20):
and the cellar.
Lettie (08:20):
Oh, exactly.
You'd hope that in case of mostrestaurants is down cellar.
Yeah, a lot of, so you're,you're running down, you're
crouching, you know, crawling,you know, looking for the, uh,
the bottle.
And then you're running back upthe stairs and you're doing that
over and over and over and overagain, um,
Mark (08:33):
while smiling and trying to look graceful.
A lot of us keep our, a lot ofus keep our wine cellars in the
cellar.
Lettie (08:39):
Yeah, so, so you know that, and, and to do that, um,
just over and over I thought,you know, a, um, I, I don't have
the calf muff.
BI definitely don't have theshoes.
And, and c um, I don't know howlong I could hang onto the
grateful attitude for sevenhour.
I,
Francis (08:52):
I will tell you what's a funny story, how you talk
about in most restaurants, thesellers and the cellar.
Mm-hmm.
We, we did a consulting job.
For a restaurant and they hadthis great wine cellar uhhuh,
but the person who'd been doingthe wines before us, um, thought
that it was too much work to godown to the cellar every time to
get the bottle of wine.
Right.
And so we had a rack put in thekitchen.
And so there was one,preferably, well, so there was
(09:12):
one bottle of every wine in thekitchen cooking.
So
Mark (09:15):
they had a per, it was perfectly stored in the seller
until, you know, you re you didyour restocking it.
They ruined everybody.
They ruined every bottle
Francis (09:22):
one by one.
It was really special.
one of the things that you talkabout that I think was
interesting is they had the, theno toothbrushing rule after
three o'clock.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lettie (09:30):
It's three and a half hours, I think was the, the time
or three hours.
Francis (09:33):
Well, tell us about that and why that is.
Lettie (09:35):
It's fascinating to me that, um, Tim had his rule,
actually I've run by other somand some of they agreed with, so
some of they disagreed with, hesaid, no mints, um, three hours
prior to service.
No brushing of teeth three hoursprior to service.
And, um, coffee was all right,which actually some sommelier
have agreed with and other solishave disagreed with, that it
was, it was all right to tasteafter, shortly after coffee and
(09:55):
others disagreed.
Um, but, you know, certainly it,It would interfere with your,
your impression of the wine.
Um, but I, it's interestingbecause I saw that, uh, that
was, uh, some kind of a generalunderstanding and in which case,
uh, or rather, I found that itwasn't really quite true.
Francis (10:10):
No, I mean, at Veritas they're, they're, they're a
little more strict than mostplaces, but it is, it is.
Super important when you'retalking about selling somebody,
you know, a$12,000 bottle ofwine that you, you can't be
second guessing things, youknow?
Right,
Lettie (10:22):
right.
Mark (10:23):
Well, same thing.
I, I mean, even politics, evenin our kitchen, our chef doesn't
allow coffee tasting during,during dinner.
You can't, you're not, becauseyou're tasting food constantly.
He doesn't want anybody drinkingcoffee.
Lettie (10:33):
Right.
Well, or that's only water tothe bathroom constantly too.
You're not allowed.
You're not allowed off the line.
The floor.
Yeah.
Leave me the way
Francis (10:42):
Now, Letty, I wanna come back and talk more about
this, these two articles youwrote, one, on being as So and
the Other on being a winesalesman.
But I wanna take a moment andtalk about, uh, food and Wine
Magazine because Food and Winemagazine uh ha.
You handle wine.
Really differently and true tothe, the title of the magazine,
you really integrate wine intoyour coverage of food.
Is that, is that you, is that onpurpose?
Lettie (11:03):
Um, absolutely.
I mean, I think, uh, the factthat we have, well first of all,
we have more wine coverage thanany food magazine.
I.
In the country.
I mean, you know, it is half ofour name and, and we really, um,
make a point to, have it inevery possible place, not just
in, in, you know, uh, bottlesrecommended or, or profiles of,
of winemakers or stories orfeatures that, but also, um,
(11:24):
absolutely every dish that it'sappropriate too.
You know, we have a suggestedpairing or two and, and, um, an
index to wines, you know, thatare in the magazine.
And then of course we have two,um, annual wine issues.
So, um, our, you know, our, ourcommitment to wine is profound.
Mark (11:40):
Yeah.
Well, just like, just like youmight recommend a great
ingredient to go into somespecial dish or some special
recipe at the same time you'rerecommending a wine to, to go
with something.
Right.
Lettie (11:49):
Because, I mean, that's the, the, that is the natural
place of wine to be consumedwith food.
Francis (11:53):
See, now I'm really impressed though with, at the
front of, I'm looking right nowat, at the current issue of food
and wine, and I'm looking in thefront, at the, at the wine index
that you have, which basically.
Refers back to all the articlesand gives people say, okay, well
this is the wine we talkedabout.
Here it is.
And so you could basically ripout this page, take it in your
back pocket, and go to theliquor store.
Lettie (12:12):
Right.
Exactly.
I mean it, it's the same thingthat we do for all the recipes
in the issue.
Francis (12:15):
Exactly.
One
Mark (12:16):
wonderful or the other.
And that's you.
You don't encourage people totear your magazine though, do
you?
Lettie (12:20):
Oh, it depends what they're tearing out, but
absolutely.
Tear up.
Carry it around.
Yeah.
Well.
Francis (12:25):
I, I think this is a very different approach to an
approach that I, we Mark and Italk about as being overused a
lot, which is where you get a, amagazine that deals with one and
they talk about scores.
Yeah.
And they talk about comparingone, one, you know, seven
different Cabernets to find thebest cabernet.
Right, right.
This is a different approach tothat.
Do you think that the score,that scores have have a place or
do you think they're overused?
(12:46):
Um, in our culture?
Uh
Lettie (12:46):
uh.
Yes.
To those questions.
Um, yes, I have a place, um,and, uh, also tell I'll address
in a second.
And, and, um, yes, they'reoverused'cause everybody has a
scoring.
You know, now, um, every, uh,every magazine that exists,
every retail, every writer, youknow, it seems like everybody
has their own scoring system.
Um, I think when it was, first,created or at least, most
(13:09):
memorably utilized by, uh, by,Robert Parker, the wine
advocate, and, uh, and the winespectator.
Being the two most prominentexamples.
I mean, you know, that, that itprovided, um, uh, a shorthand,
you know, at a time when peoplereally didn't, understand, um,
why, right.
Mark (13:23):
People didn't necessarily have a vocabulary, but they
could understand a score.
Lettie (13:26):
Exactly.
Um, so it was a way thateverybody, you know, went to,
well, most everybody wentthrough, uh, school, you know,
and, and understood what it meanmeant to get an 82 versus
bringing home a report card thathad 94 right.
Um, you know, and I think, and,and, and Bob Parker himself
says, time and time again,don't, you know, it's not just
about the scores.
I mean, he writes really dense,uh, um, tasting notes, as do you
know, other wine, make otherwine magazines, um, you know, to
(13:47):
describe the wine and to give,especially in the case of
Parker, you know, the profile,the wine maker or, you know,
some great, um, background and
Francis (13:54):
Robert Parker being the, the, uh, publisher of, of a
very important.
Magazine that really was thefirst to popularize the a
hundred point scale.
Right.
Which is a wine advocate,
Lettie (14:01):
and it's also been a contributing editor to Food Wine
Magazine since its inception.
Francis (14:04):
Right,
Lettie (14:05):
right.
Uh, I'm proud to say so.
So why don't,
Francis (14:07):
so why do you avoid scores with
Lettie (14:08):
Food and Wine Magazine?
Well, because, uh, I think it's,it's, it's a critic, it's a
critic's choice.
And I'm not a, I'm wine critic.
I'm a, I'm a wine journalist.
Um, and we don't have a criticat the magazine.
Uh, we, we write about wine andwe taste wine.
We have a tasting room.
We have a tasting panel and the,but, but, um, you know, it's a
critic.
Business to assign scores.
And, and you know what?
I don't think that it, um, wedon't need to, we don't need to
(14:29):
do that.
There isn't that need.
Um, but it really goes back to,I, you know, I'm personally, I
don't consider myself a critic.
And, and, um, that's not the,it's not the business of our
magazine.
We write about, um, wines thatwe suggest, you know, that you
drink and, and heaven, those,there are not enough pages of
the magazine to talk about allthe, you know, you know, all the
amazing wines that are outthere, um, that people should be
drinking.
Mark (14:50):
Well, one of the things you just alluded to is kind of
the backstory of wine and one ofthe, one of the things that
Parker gives you that, that, uh,the spectator doesn't give you
sometimes, uh, when it, when heis talking about a wine, is, is
where it comes from.
And that, and that whole story.
Right, right.
Lettie (15:03):
The
Mark (15:03):
personality.
Well, I think, I think maybethis is a good opportunity to
talk about you as a winesalesperson where you had to
know the, the backstory and, andhow important that was.
I
Lettie (15:12):
think it didn't seem to do any, do me any good.
once upon a time when I wasselling, it'd say, lady, I
really like talking to you andit's a lot of fun, but you know,
I'm not gonna buy wine either.
A I was selling really expensiveItalian wine at a time when
nobody thought that that was asensible idea.
And b, I had, you know, huge,um, minimums.
So for me, you know, withselling, selling, uh, uh, three,
(15:32):
$5 Italian Chardonnay andPoughkeepsie, you know, uh, uh,
15 years ago,
Francis (15:36):
right.
Which is$35 means that it'sgonna wind up on the retail
shelf being a$50 box.
Lettie (15:40):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Francis (15:42):
Now, but I think that Mark, rose, mark, you bring up
a, a great point in your articleon being a sommelier.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, you talk about a, asommelier having to know the
story to be able to tell.
Lettie (15:54):
Right.
Francis (15:54):
As a wine salesman, you talk about Deidre, who's one of
the wine sales reps that youfollow around and she tells the
story and one of the other winesales reps as well.
And, but Deidre says, I don'trep rep, I don't sell wines, I
represent wine makers.
Right.
I think is is one of the thingsshe said.
And I thought that was great andyou as a journalist.
Do the same thing.
You tell a story.
Yeah.
Why is the story so important towine?
Lettie (16:16):
Well, I mean, as human beings, we're interested in
other human beings.
I mean, and what it is that,what you find in a person is, I
think you do find in a wine.
And, what goes into the creationof wine, of a wine, wine is, um,
in many ways just as interestingor, or sometimes even more
interesting than the wine itselfbecause, I mean, you can have,
uh, you know, 17 very well madeCalifornia Cabernets that you,
to have the story of, of theperson that made them, as a
(16:39):
distinguishing, um,characteristic or, or something
memorable.
Something even more memorable.
'cause you can, you can, you cansay the 17, you know, cherry,
berry, tasting, I mean, they,they all become essentially the
same, um, uh, wine, you know,described, um, and there's,
there's tired adjectives that,that the, the additional
component is, is knowing, youknow, the person that made it
(17:00):
and that that tells you anenormous amount.
Mark (17:01):
Mm-hmm.
It, I, I think it tells, you enit, it obviously a memory tool,
but it tells you an enormousamount and some of the things,
sometimes what it tells you is,okay, this farmer or this wine
maker has put.
This extra effort into makingthis right and nine times out of
10, and I won't say 10 times outof 10'cause it's not true.
No, unfortunately
Lettie (17:20):
it's not.
Mark (17:20):
Extra effort translate into better wine.
Right.
Or or better product, whateverthe product is.
Francis (17:26):
Right.
I think, I think there's also,and Lydia, I'm curious to see,
to see if you agree with.
Mean, I think one of the thingsthat people who aren't into wine
don't get, like why people areso crazy about wine is that it's
not all a contest to make thisideal wine.
And that's why where the, thescore system falls short, I
think.
Right.
The idea is you can have 10different Cabernets that are all
great, great Cabernets, they'reall good Cabernets, right?
(17:47):
And.
They're different.
And the thing about great winefrom small producers especially
is that it's unique.
There's nothing else like thewine from this particular
vineyard in this particularyear.
Right, exactly.
And I think, and I think thestory of the winemaker helps,
helps to quantify thatparticular wine.
It's.
Lettie (18:03):
Right, exactly.
'cause it's, it's, it's himexpressing his personality and
also the, the, the character of,uh, presumably, um, the
character of, of that, thatpiece of ground that he's
working on or with.
And, and, and, you know, themore intimate, the connection
between the wine maker and, and,and the vineyard where the wine
is made.
And, uh, and this one phrasethat.
Um, uh, uh, you know, winemakersrepeat ad nauseum, although
(18:26):
there is, there is truth in it.
I've just heard it 5,000 timesand they say it as if they're
the first one to ever say, youknow, wine is made in the
vineyard.
But it is, it is true.
I mean, there has to be thatconnection on intimate
connection to the land.
Understand,
Francis (18:38):
And we're talking with Letty Teague, executive wine
editor at Food and WineMagazine.
So Letty, what's up with theFood and Wine 2006 American Wine
Awards?
What's that all about?
Lettie (18:47):
Oh, well this is a program we do every year.
This is actually the 10th yearthat we've been, uh, recognizing
some of the best wines and themost talented wine makers and
the, uh, the most promising newwineries in America.
Francis (18:58):
Well, one of the things I like about this is you have
the under$20 bottle category andthe over$20 bottle category, and
that's really.
Necessary.
I think,
Lettie (19:06):
yeah, I think that's the way, um, most people buy wine.
Um, well, maybe even a littleless than 20.
Francis (19:11):
What gets you on the list?
What, what are the awardwinners?
So you see, I'm looking at thelist and I have a bunch of my
favorite wines here, but what'syour criteria for, for getting
on the list?
I assume you making decisions.
Lettie (19:20):
Well, actually, if you, if you look, we've got a, a list
of judges.
so it's, it's in fact a, uh, apanel.
Um, it's a, it's very democraticin that sense.
we send out ballots, um, to justabout 30 judges every year.
And these are, these are wineuh, professionals.
They're, they're contributingwriters and editors.
They're wine makers, they'reretailers.
They're
Francis (19:39):
our, um, our ballots must have been lost in the mail.
Yeah.
Lists the
Lettie (19:42):
list.
You know, we want people thattaste.
All the time.
All the time, and really have asense of what's going on, in
American wine.
And then when, and then when wehave the finalists, we, we call
those wines in and, um, at themagazine then we have, um,
basically, you know, the tasteoff uh, at the, uh, you know.
Here at the Office of Food andWine.
Mark (19:59):
I think sometimes people, people, uh, you know, I tell
people I'm going to a winetasting and they look at me
like, uh oh, that must be fun,be awesome.
And I think sometimes peopledon't realize, I gotta go taste
a hundred wines right now.
Yeah.
And try and try and notice thesesubtle nuance in each of them.
And my
Francis (20:15):
finger and lips are gonna be purple and I'm have a.
Lettie (20:18):
And then after that.
Francis (20:19):
Right, right.
No one's gonna wanna map.
It's gonna, the la the last timethat I was invited to sit on a
tasting panel, and it's fun toget to, invited to sit on
tasting panels.
The last, the last tastingpanel, I, I almost, uh, beat a
friend of mine who, who does,uh, wine for the star ledger in
here in New Jersey.
Mm-hmm.
He said, um.
Oh, why don't you come in andsit on the, we're doing this,
we're to be a judge on thispanel.
(20:40):
It was the home wine makingIran.
Lettie (20:43):
Oh, did he not tell you that before?
He
Francis (20:45):
told me the day of.
Oh my lord.
Alright, so, so what should webe drinking on our Thanksgiving
table?
I mean, I'm looking at theThanksgiving issue here of fine
wine.
What, what should be drinkingon, on?
Uh.
Thanksgiving table?
Lettie (20:57):
Well, I mean, you can look at, you can also look at,
uh, the ones from the AmericanWine Awards.
'cause certainly you, a bunch ofthose, um, wines are, are
perfectly appropriate.
And, and heaven knows Pinot isan appropriate, um, wine to
Thanksgiving in terms of, its,its versatility.
uh, Zen, you know, is z iscertainly, uh, the most American
of wines.
And, and I think, you know, it'sgot all those big, rich, ripe.
fruit flavors that I think
Mark (21:18):
that's, that's great with like a lot of those stuffing
spices and things like that Delreally, really, uh, marries well
with
Francis (21:24):
thoses.
I think we wanna point out to,um, consumers out there that,
zinfandel people know what WhiteZinfandel is, which is a Sweet
Rose wine, but Zinfandel manypeople know, but some people
still don't.
That red Zinfandel is a veryfruity alcoholic, uh, uh, wine.
That's, that's a serious wine.
And, and, but not sweet.
Not sweet like white Zinfandel.
(21:45):
Right?
And great with Turkey and yourThanksgiving meal and, and very
versatile, very American becauseit's, we're the only country
except for a few in Australiaand, and South Africa where
you'll find Zinfandel and youcan find Zinfandels for$10 a
bottle.
Elle's for$70 a right.
You
Mark (22:01):
ASEL still, I think one of the best bargains in, in as far
as grape varieties and six Yeah,absolutely.
Because
Lettie (22:05):
there's such a snob factor against it, you know,
because it's perceived as notbeing a noble wine.
Right.
That, um, me alone cabernet is,and, and the fact is, does it
age as, as, as long and as well?
No, but that's the whole, thewhole, juicy and, and exuberant
and, and delicious.
Francis (22:18):
Well, and it's like, does it age well?
No, but I'm gonna drink it onThursday, so who cares if this
bottle's gonna be empty?
This whatever bottle I drink onThanksgiving is not gonna age
past, uh, that Thursday.
So, so who cares?
Even be remembered probably atthe end of the night.
One of the, one of the thingsthat Mark and I like to do, and
especially I think what worksfor Thanksgiving is the, is the,
is the magical pairing is, um.
I like Riesling German orAustrian Rieslings to start and
(22:41):
then Zinfandel with dinner.
I think those are some of themost versatile,
Lettie (22:45):
right?
I think that's excellent choices
Francis (22:45):
of all combinations.
Mark (22:46):
so.
So Letty recently, uh, and inthis, this latest issue, you,
you gotta sit down with FrancisFord Coppola for a little while.
Lettie (22:53):
Yeah, that was, that was really, really, uh, um, a really
interesting and, and prettywonderful experience.
Mark (22:58):
Can you tell us a little bit about your conversation and
you know, what he's doing thesedays?
Um,
Lettie (23:02):
well, you know what he's not doing, I guess.
Mark (23:04):
There you go.
Lettie (23:05):
The man is, is a, you know, a dynamo.
I mean, first of all, he has afilm that he's been working on
for, you know, I don't know, ayear and a half.
It's going to come out sometime,uh, next year.
Uh, that he shot in Romania fora year.
He, um, he, he purchased thewinery ine in Sonoma, um, about,
uh.
Six months ago.
Um, and will be renaming it andreopening it, um, uh, as, as
(23:27):
some extravaganza that hewouldn't, tell me exactly what,
but just it was going to be likea, an all day experience to go
there.
And it sounded like, you know,there were going to be, I could
only speculate, so I won't say,but, um, he's also opening a
hotel in, um, so
Mark (23:37):
it's like Suberin now.
Suberin now gonna be like awaterpark.
Lettie (23:40):
I.
Francis (23:42):
Just so you know, pop Francis Ford Coppola makes, is a
wine maker out in California anda great wine maker
Lettie (23:48):
state.
Yeah.
Is, is his, his primaryproperty, which he lived, his
house was about half a milebehind that.
And, the Rubicon Estate, whichwas up until January of this
year near Neal Coppola, um, youknow, the winery name.
And then he said, you know whatI'm getting rid of, um, I'm
getting rid of all the, theextraneous stuff.
Um, which was, you know, the, Ithought the best, uh, um, you
(24:08):
know, tasting room tchotchkes inNapa.
Um.
All the movie memorabilia, allthe other ones that aren't
Rubicon, which is the flagshipone, um, uh, you know, Bordes s
Blend and shipping it all overto Sonoma where they'll have a
lot more fun and in Napa will beserious.
Francis (24:22):
You know.
You know, one of the things thatI, of his most recent vineyard
acquisition in Napa, it was thatit was the highest price paid
for, uh, vineyard Land in Napaat the time.
Yeah.
$300,000 an acre.
Yeah.
Lettie (24:35):
It's prime acreage in Rutherford, one of the most
established, you know, winemaking regions.
Um, in, in, in America,
Francis (24:40):
in, yeah.
Well, and also he, you knowwhat, if you're France, Fort
Copeland and you wanna make itthe best vineyard anywhere and
make the best wine at can
Lettie (24:45):
Right.
Francis (24:46):
300,000 an acre, just
Lettie (24:48):
write it.
Francis (24:48):
Yeah.
That's sort of like me sayingYeah.
Supersize me is sort, sort ofwhere we are on the Yeah.
I'll take the bottomless coke.
Yeah.
All right.
That's all right.
I
Lettie (24:57):
like that you and Francis have more in common than
you realize.
Francis (24:59):
Yeah, I wish, I wish she'd had adopt me.
Leddy.
I wanted to say thanks forcoming on the show with us.
You've been a blast.
Lettie (25:04):
Thanks.
It's lots of fun.
Francis (25:05):
Thanks.
Ludy.
Leddy Teague is the executivewine editor of Food and Wine
Magazine.
She does a lot of great writing,food and wine magazine.
If you wanna look at ourphilosophy of how, how wine and
food should be integrated, the,the magazine really lives up to
its name and it's largely aresult of, of Letty's effort and
how to structure the magazine.
you're listening to theRestaurant Guys, central Jersey
1450.
(25:41):
Hey everybody.
Welcome back.
You're listening to theRestaurant guys, mark and
Francis of Stage left inCatherine Body Restaurant.
Mark (25:46):
So we just had Letty Teague from Food and Wine
Magazine on and, and we weretalking to her about a couple
articles she wrote recently, andone of the ones was a secret
life of a wine salesman.
And one of the things that Ireally enjoyed about the
article, and I, and I thinkmaybe, maybe I'll, maybe I'll
take it a little bit easier onmy wine sales person, the next
time they come in, and I'll justread you this one line.
Some of the retailers I calledon had been well.
(26:09):
Mean,
Francis (26:11):
you know, it's true though.
I could, I have so much respectfor those guys, for our friends.
And I'm not just saying that'cause they all drive around in
the car and listen to the show.
They, they are
Mark (26:19):
some of our best listeners.
Francis (26:20):
We, but we, I mean we had been approached about
becoming a wine sales.
I remember one of our big winedistributors, a guy named Harmon
Sker, I'll say, I'll say thatname out.
He is a big wine distributor andhe, we've been buying wine from
him since, since it was him andhis brother and one employee.
Now they're the 800 poundgorilla of the wine world.
But I remember, and I remindedhim of this recently,
Mark (26:37):
they won Food and wines, uh, distributor beer, best
distributor a few years back,
Francis (26:41):
well, shortly after we opened the restaurant in like
93, 94, they had these amazingproperties that nobody in New
Jersey was doing.
And we were the only restaurantcustomer, and we were doing it
over the phone, and we were, itwas very exciting.
I talked to Harmon all the time,and I remember he said to me
early on, he said, you know, ifthis restaurant thing doesn't
work out, you can always come towork for us.
And, uh, well Harmon, if you'relistening, um.
(27:02):
I'm glad it worked out.
Mark (27:04):
I'd rather be your best customer than your number one
Zoo Letty talks about, I mean,and again, we didn't get to get
into the, into the wine salesmanarticle very deeply, but she
talks about, you know, ridingthe subway back and forth across
the city, having a
Francis (27:16):
case of wine with you, sande of wine wherever you go on
the subway.
But actually no, uh, wine salesrep.
So I used to date a wine salesrep and she had a lot, some of
her friends had a problem, likeone shoulder was lower than the
other.
Because they're carrying around6, 8, 10 bottles of wine.
I think the one and you canlink.
You can read this article on theSecret Life of a wine salesman.
And she talks about working withthis, this one sales rep who was
(27:36):
really a, a great sales rep whospoke Italian, French,
Portuguese, German, um,fluently, but she was also a
hottie.
Guess who got the best sales?
The two middle ledge guys or thehottie.
Yeah.
And when asked, um, she said,you know, why do you always get
a sales?
She asked this woman, Deidre,um, she said.
Uh, flirting.
I do a lot of flirting and youknow, it's true.
(27:58):
It's absolutely true.
Well,
Mark (27:59):
it works on you better than most.
Francis (28:01):
No, no, that's not true.
I'm Steve Wine salesman hate mebecause I'm Mr.
Like I only, I'm, I'm only wantthose very, you know,
Mark (28:07):
and, and we only have a couple more seconds to talk
about this, but, you know, it'sso hard.
You're, you're as the restaurantside of this.
I know that they're the winesales person's up there waiting
for me, and I want to get tothem as quickly as I can, but my
Francis (28:18):
job is you the customer, but I'm swamped.
My job is you the customer.
So go to our website, check outFood and Wine Magazine, the It's
pretty awesome.
Hope you've enjoyed the hour.
I'm Francis Shot.
And I'm Mark Pascal.
We are the restaurant guys,
Hey everybody.
Welcome back.
You're listening to theRestaurant Guys.
Mark and Francis are staged,left in Captain Lombardi
restaurants in downtown NewBrunswick.
Our guest today is Letty Teague.
Letty is the executive wineeditor of Food and Wine
Magazine, one of our favorites.
And you've heard us talk aboutit many times before.
Hey, Leddy.
Hey there.
How are you?
I'm
Lettie (00:57):
doing just fine.
How?
Welcome
Francis (00:58):
to the show.
Lettie (00:59):
Good to be here.
Francis (00:59):
Um.
I was prompted to, to ask myproducer, to get you to come on
the show when I saw an, anarticle you did recently called
The Secret Life of a WineSalesman.
Right.
Which I love, because I rememberthat you had done an article
prior to that called The SecretLife of a som, yet.
Lettie (01:14):
Wow.
You have a very good memory.
Francis (01:15):
Well, you know, they were very close.
I was like, Hey, is this arepeat?
No.
Lettie (01:19):
Keep using that word secret.
It's a very secretiveenterprise.
Francis (01:23):
I like it.
It's very, it's very sexy.
It draws you in.
Mark (01:25):
Maybe you should have said the underground life of a wine
salesman.
Lettie (01:29):
Well, I guess that'll be part three.
Francis (01:30):
So just to explain to our listeners, what Letty did
was she went and she worked as asommelier in a restaurant, where
a friend of ours, Tim Kopec, isthe, the head sommelier.
And when you worked there, EricZiller, who's also been on the
show as a sommelier.
Uh, and then for this mostrecent article, you packed your
bag and, and went out with awine sales rep.
Lettie (01:47):
Yeah.
Uh, from a company called MartinScott has a great portfolio and,
um, some very strong salesmenwho are willing to carry many
bottles of wine.
Yeah, yeah,
Francis (01:56):
exactly.
I could, I could never do that.
I have so many friends who arein the wine sales business, and
I just, and I want to talk aboutwhy I could, I could never be a
wine salesman, but I have been.
Lettie (02:04):
Is it
Francis (02:04):
physical
Lettie (02:05):
or
Francis (02:05):
psychological?
Psychological.
It's definitely psychologicaldifferences, definitely.
But both components, sir.
Well, let's talk about thedifference between being a
sommelier and a wine salesman.
I mean, for me, that the biggestthing is if you're, if you're a
sommelier, the person is in yourdining establishment and you're
helping'em select which thing,right?
If you're a wine salesman,you've got a.
They can say no.
Right, right.
(02:26):
You know,
Lettie (02:26):
well, you're selling though, in either case.
but certainly you're, youcertainly have more control, um,
when you're the sommelier.
At least.
you've got to buy something inthe beginning to sell it as
opposed to just being there, youknow, um, selling it.
So you have, uh, sensibly, atleast a degree more control.
and certainly stability and, andcertainly, uh, well actually
both are, both of them are alsolike incredibly physically
demanding.
(02:46):
Um, and that was one thing that,that I was, really struck by
when I was the soli egg.
I mean,'cause I, I certainlyhaving been, uh, um, a failure
of a wine salesperson, um, nomatter how much, how many miles
I travel n many bottles Icarried.
Oh, I never seemed to actuallysell enough.
You weren't a closer?
Um, no.
Said, oh, you don't want thisfine.
Okay.
Link away.
Francis (03:07):
Well, I think a lot of people wonder what it would be
like.
Uh, and, and as more and moreconsumers have a little bit of
wine knowledge and to be thatthe sommelier sort of the
dashing person who knows a lotabout a lot of different things,
there's
Lettie (03:18):
a lot more glamor in being a sommelier.
Mark (03:20):
There is wine to open.
That's, think, I think there'salso another factor here when
you're a sommelier, you where,how it's different than most.
Other sales jobs, I think, and,and certainly a wine salesman
would be one of those.
You get to sell something theypeople want, but don't
necessarily need.
Lettie (03:37):
Right,
Mark (03:38):
right.
Or don't understand.
They want your guidance.
Exactly.
And in most other cases, asalesperson is selling something
that maybe you need but don'tnecessarily want,
Lettie (03:47):
or, or neither.
You neither nor wanted.
Right?
More honestly, that's the case.
Mark (03:51):
Unfortunately, I've known a lot of salesmen selling
things.
Francis (03:53):
Exactly that Paul got a case category.
That's worst.
That's the worst case scenario.
So now just so we, we clarifyfor our audience who, who, who
may not know a sommelierbasically is a, is the wine
waiter.
It's the guy on the floor.
His job is to, to bring you thewine, serve you the wine, know
what wines are there so we cananswer any questions for you.
Lettie (04:11):
Right.
Mark (04:11):
Hopefully he's also the person purchasing the
Francis (04:13):
wine.
Exactly.
So that you Right, exactly.
They
Lettie (04:14):
explained why that wine is on the list to begin with and
then we'll have tasted all thosewines on the list and can
actually answer questionsintelligently.
Francis (04:21):
And I should say, and I should say he or she.
So you went to maybe the, the,the best wine restaurant in
Manhattan and got one of thebest For sure.
Yeah.
Certainly for Wine for one is Iwould say Veritas.
Right?
That's what thinks S true Ithink are sort of neck and neck
right now.
Lettie (04:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Francis (04:37):
Well.
So what was the most surprisingthing you found from, from
stepping onto the floor as asommelier?
Lettie (04:42):
Um, well, specific to the restaurant, uh, Veritas.
The, the, the extraordinaryrevelation for me was the, was
um, the fact that Tim and his,um, his guys were tasting every
single bottle that went outthere, and then, so they, they
tasted, you know, they wouldtaste a$10,000 wine.
Um, and, and so the ability totaste, uh, uh, the opportunity
razza taste was, was tremendoussaid, um, for that and, and the
(05:04):
kinds of wines they're selling.
Were just extraordinary.
I mean, the, that, um, you know,my favorite phrase that uh, and
I learned was a buck.
They said that, that that winecost a buck.
And I thought, wow.
They said, no, a buck is ahundred dollars, but wine that's
two bucks.
Well that's$200.
And it was amazing how many winefor two bucks.
Francis (05:23):
So two, so two buck Chuck takes on a whole different
connotation there.
I guess.
Lettie (05:27):
Now the same thing at Veritas.
Francis (05:29):
Actually, that's a great point that you bring up
that, that.
We, we use like Veritas in ourrestaurants, we use formal
service, which is where thecaptain or the sommelier pours
out a taste and tastes the winehim or herself, right.
Before pouring the host to theparty.
Right.
Right.
A, a, a taste as well, and a,which is
Lettie (05:45):
a great idea.
That's a great idea for so manyreasons, but it was also
remarkable to me, not so much aVeritas'cause they have a very,
they get a.
Pretty educated clientele.
Um, I was a very educatedclientele, but people would
sometimes say, wait a minute,that's my wine.
Mark (05:58):
Yes, that's exactly what I was about to say.
That's where we go.
Occasionally you get, you getthe customer says, you're
drinking my wine.
Right.
But they said, well, we're also
Lettie (06:06):
saving you a, on the experience of a bad wine, or B,
potential humiliation.
No.
Should you, you know, acceptthis and, and find out later as
court.
I,
Francis (06:13):
I think that's interesting.
We actually will occasionallyget letters of complaint, people
say, and I've never seen thatbefore in my life, and I've
eaten at the best restaurants inthe world.
And
Lettie (06:21):
so that never happens in Applebee's.
Yeah, yeah.
Francis (06:25):
we should explain to people that, that In a great
restaurant, especially now thatin wines there's a problem,
there are problems with more andmore wines being corked or being
selected.
Mark (06:33):
There are, and there are some really good restaurants
that don't taste your wine.
And I mean Sure,
Lettie (06:36):
sure.
It's really, you know, um, uh,it's an individual
Francis (06:39):
choice, but, but to explain why the sommelier is
tasting your wine beforepresenting it to you is it's a
check on quality because thereare flawed bottles of wine.
I would say one in a hundredbottles of wine has something
wrong with it these days.
Mark (06:50):
Yeah.
Oh, I, I would say it's evenmore than that.
The number's definitely rising,
Lettie (06:54):
but I think that, that is, is first and foremost the
reason why, I mean that, thatis, uh, the reason why, I mean,
secondary may be way down there,but for me personally, it also
to get an opportunity to tastesome amazing wines that, you
know,
Francis (07:05):
well, you know, that's the other thing otherwise might
get to, you know, if you, if youwant an educated wine, uh,
staff,
Lettie (07:11):
right?
They have to be able to mm-hmm.
Know what it is.
I mean, the
Francis (07:13):
sommelier Veritas makes a good living, but he certainly
doesn't make enough to bedrinking.
$12,000 bottles of wine everynow, oh,
Lettie (07:18):
I don't know, maybe.
So a lot of wine
Francis (07:22):
there.
Those tips can be really good.
We'll be talking more with LetyTeague, executive wine editor of
Food and Wine Magazine.
Let you, were we're talkingabout your experiences when you
as a, as a journalisticassignment went and, uh, worked
on the floor of one of the topwine restaurants in Manhattan.
A sommelier and you said it wasvery physically demanding and I
think people don't realize, I, Ihaven't bartended in, I don't
(07:43):
know, a long time.
Lettie (07:44):
And
Francis (07:44):
we recently opened another bar and I went behind
the bar and I trained thebartenders and I worked a couple
of shifts.
Lettie (07:49):
Right.
You're exhausted.
It's
Francis (07:51):
brutal.
Mark and I, mark and I used towork 14 hour shifts back to back
like five in a row.
Didn't hurt me when I was 26.
Right.
40 killing me.
Yeah.
So what was so physicallydemanding about being a simul
yet?
Lettie (08:02):
Well, you know, in, in the case of the restaurant ton,
first of all, in general, um,they're always on their feet.
They absolutely never sit down.
So you figure it takes their,um, on their feet from, from
four 30 or five o'clock to 11 or12.
Um, and in the case of Veritas,uh, and in many restaurants,
the, the seller is down, um, aflight of stairs
Francis (08:20):
and the cellar.
Lettie (08:20):
Oh, exactly.
You'd hope that in case of mostrestaurants is down cellar.
Yeah, a lot of, so you're,you're running down, you're
crouching, you know, crawling,you know, looking for the, uh,
the bottle.
And then you're running back upthe stairs and you're doing that
over and over and over and overagain, um,
Mark (08:33):
while smiling and trying to look graceful.
A lot of us keep our, a lot ofus keep our wine cellars in the
cellar.
Lettie (08:39):
Yeah, so, so you know that, and, and to do that, um,
just over and over I thought,you know, a, um, I, I don't have
the calf muff.
BI definitely don't have theshoes.
And, and c um, I don't know howlong I could hang onto the
grateful attitude for sevenhour.
I,
Francis (08:52):
I will tell you what's a funny story, how you talk
about in most restaurants, thesellers and the cellar.
Mm-hmm.
We, we did a consulting job.
For a restaurant and they hadthis great wine cellar uhhuh,
but the person who'd been doingthe wines before us, um, thought
that it was too much work to godown to the cellar every time to
get the bottle of wine.
Right.
And so we had a rack put in thekitchen.
And so there was one,preferably, well, so there was
(09:12):
one bottle of every wine in thekitchen cooking.
So
Mark (09:15):
they had a per, it was perfectly stored in the seller
until, you know, you re you didyour restocking it.
They ruined everybody.
They ruined every bottle
Francis (09:22):
one by one.
It was really special.
one of the things that you talkabout that I think was
interesting is they had the, theno toothbrushing rule after
three o'clock.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lettie (09:30):
It's three and a half hours, I think was the, the time
or three hours.
Francis (09:33):
Well, tell us about that and why that is.
Lettie (09:35):
It's fascinating to me that, um, Tim had his rule,
actually I've run by other somand some of they agreed with, so
some of they disagreed with, hesaid, no mints, um, three hours
prior to service.
No brushing of teeth three hoursprior to service.
And, um, coffee was all right,which actually some sommelier
have agreed with and other solishave disagreed with, that it
was, it was all right to tasteafter, shortly after coffee and
(09:55):
others disagreed.
Um, but, you know, certainly it,It would interfere with your,
your impression of the wine.
Um, but I, it's interestingbecause I saw that, uh, that
was, uh, some kind of a generalunderstanding and in which case,
uh, or rather, I found that itwasn't really quite true.
Francis (10:10):
No, I mean, at Veritas they're, they're, they're a
little more strict than mostplaces, but it is, it is.
Super important when you'retalking about selling somebody,
you know, a$12,000 bottle ofwine that you, you can't be
second guessing things, youknow?
Right,
Lettie (10:22):
right.
Mark (10:23):
Well, same thing.
I, I mean, even politics, evenin our kitchen, our chef doesn't
allow coffee tasting during,during dinner.
You can't, you're not, becauseyou're tasting food constantly.
He doesn't want anybody drinkingcoffee.
Lettie (10:33):
Right.
Well, or that's only water tothe bathroom constantly too.
You're not allowed.
You're not allowed off the line.
The floor.
Yeah.
Leave me the way
Francis (10:42):
Now, Letty, I wanna come back and talk more about
this, these two articles youwrote, one, on being as So and
the Other on being a winesalesman.
But I wanna take a moment andtalk about, uh, food and Wine
Magazine because Food and Winemagazine uh ha.
You handle wine.
Really differently and true tothe, the title of the magazine,
you really integrate wine intoyour coverage of food.
Is that, is that you, is that onpurpose?
Lettie (11:03):
Um, absolutely.
I mean, I think, uh, the factthat we have, well first of all,
we have more wine coverage thanany food magazine.
I.
In the country.
I mean, you know, it is half ofour name and, and we really, um,
make a point to, have it inevery possible place, not just
in, in, you know, uh, bottlesrecommended or, or profiles of,
of winemakers or stories orfeatures that, but also, um,
(11:24):
absolutely every dish that it'sappropriate too.
You know, we have a suggestedpairing or two and, and, um, an
index to wines, you know, thatare in the magazine.
And then of course we have two,um, annual wine issues.
So, um, our, you know, our, ourcommitment to wine is profound.
Mark (11:40):
Yeah.
Well, just like, just like youmight recommend a great
ingredient to go into somespecial dish or some special
recipe at the same time you'rerecommending a wine to, to go
with something.
Right.
Lettie (11:49):
Because, I mean, that's the, the, that is the natural
place of wine to be consumedwith food.
Francis (11:53):
See, now I'm really impressed though with, at the
front of, I'm looking right nowat, at the current issue of food
and wine, and I'm looking in thefront, at the, at the wine index
that you have, which basically.
Refers back to all the articlesand gives people say, okay, well
this is the wine we talkedabout.
Here it is.
And so you could basically ripout this page, take it in your
back pocket, and go to theliquor store.
Lettie (12:12):
Right.
Exactly.
I mean it, it's the same thingthat we do for all the recipes
in the issue.
Francis (12:15):
Exactly.
One
Mark (12:16):
wonderful or the other.
And that's you.
You don't encourage people totear your magazine though, do
you?
Lettie (12:20):
Oh, it depends what they're tearing out, but
absolutely.
Tear up.
Carry it around.
Yeah.
Well.
Francis (12:25):
I, I think this is a very different approach to an
approach that I, we Mark and Italk about as being overused a
lot, which is where you get a, amagazine that deals with one and
they talk about scores.
Yeah.
And they talk about comparingone, one, you know, seven
different Cabernets to find thebest cabernet.
Right, right.
This is a different approach tothat.
Do you think that the score,that scores have have a place or
do you think they're overused?
(12:46):
Um, in our culture?
Uh
Lettie (12:46):
uh.
Yes.
To those questions.
Um, yes, I have a place, um,and, uh, also tell I'll address
in a second.
And, and, um, yes, they'reoverused'cause everybody has a
scoring.
You know, now, um, every, uh,every magazine that exists,
every retail, every writer, youknow, it seems like everybody
has their own scoring system.
Um, I think when it was, first,created or at least, most
(13:09):
memorably utilized by, uh, by,Robert Parker, the wine
advocate, and, uh, and the winespectator.
Being the two most prominentexamples.
I mean, you know, that, that itprovided, um, uh, a shorthand,
you know, at a time when peoplereally didn't, understand, um,
why, right.
Mark (13:23):
People didn't necessarily have a vocabulary, but they
could understand a score.
Lettie (13:26):
Exactly.
Um, so it was a way thateverybody, you know, went to,
well, most everybody wentthrough, uh, school, you know,
and, and understood what it meanmeant to get an 82 versus
bringing home a report card thathad 94 right.
Um, you know, and I think, and,and, and Bob Parker himself
says, time and time again,don't, you know, it's not just
about the scores.
I mean, he writes really dense,uh, um, tasting notes, as do you
know, other wine, make otherwine magazines, um, you know, to
(13:47):
describe the wine and to give,especially in the case of
Parker, you know, the profile,the wine maker or, you know,
some great, um, background and
Francis (13:54):
Robert Parker being the, the, uh, publisher of, of a
very important.
Magazine that really was thefirst to popularize the a
hundred point scale.
Right.
Which is a wine advocate,
Lettie (14:01):
and it's also been a contributing editor to Food Wine
Magazine since its inception.
Francis (14:04):
Right,
Lettie (14:05):
right.
Uh, I'm proud to say so.
So why don't,
Francis (14:07):
so why do you avoid scores with
Lettie (14:08):
Food and Wine Magazine?
Well, because, uh, I think it's,it's, it's a critic, it's a
critic's choice.
And I'm not a, I'm wine critic.
I'm a, I'm a wine journalist.
Um, and we don't have a criticat the magazine.
Uh, we, we write about wine andwe taste wine.
We have a tasting room.
We have a tasting panel and the,but, but, um, you know, it's a
critic.
Business to assign scores.
And, and you know what?
I don't think that it, um, wedon't need to, we don't need to
(14:29):
do that.
There isn't that need.
Um, but it really goes back to,I, you know, I'm personally, I
don't consider myself a critic.
And, and, um, that's not the,it's not the business of our
magazine.
We write about, um, wines thatwe suggest, you know, that you
drink and, and heaven, those,there are not enough pages of
the magazine to talk about allthe, you know, you know, all the
amazing wines that are outthere, um, that people should be
drinking.
Mark (14:50):
Well, one of the things you just alluded to is kind of
the backstory of wine and one ofthe, one of the things that
Parker gives you that, that, uh,the spectator doesn't give you
sometimes, uh, when it, when heis talking about a wine, is, is
where it comes from.
And that, and that whole story.
Right, right.
Lettie (15:03):
The
Mark (15:03):
personality.
Well, I think, I think maybethis is a good opportunity to
talk about you as a winesalesperson where you had to
know the, the backstory and, andhow important that was.
I
Lettie (15:12):
think it didn't seem to do any, do me any good.
once upon a time when I wasselling, it'd say, lady, I
really like talking to you andit's a lot of fun, but you know,
I'm not gonna buy wine either.
A I was selling really expensiveItalian wine at a time when
nobody thought that that was asensible idea.
And b, I had, you know, huge,um, minimums.
So for me, you know, withselling, selling, uh, uh, three,
(15:32):
$5 Italian Chardonnay andPoughkeepsie, you know, uh, uh,
15 years ago,
Francis (15:36):
right.
Which is$35 means that it'sgonna wind up on the retail
shelf being a$50 box.
Lettie (15:40):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Francis (15:42):
Now, but I think that Mark, rose, mark, you bring up
a, a great point in your articleon being a sommelier.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, you talk about a, asommelier having to know the
story to be able to tell.
Lettie (15:54):
Right.
Francis (15:54):
As a wine salesman, you talk about Deidre, who's one of
the wine sales reps that youfollow around and she tells the
story and one of the other winesales reps as well.
And, but Deidre says, I don'trep rep, I don't sell wines, I
represent wine makers.
Right.
I think is is one of the thingsshe said.
And I thought that was great andyou as a journalist.
Do the same thing.
You tell a story.
Yeah.
Why is the story so important towine?
Lettie (16:16):
Well, I mean, as human beings, we're interested in
other human beings.
I mean, and what it is that,what you find in a person is, I
think you do find in a wine.
And, what goes into the creationof wine, of a wine, wine is, um,
in many ways just as interestingor, or sometimes even more
interesting than the wine itselfbecause, I mean, you can have,
uh, you know, 17 very well madeCalifornia Cabernets that you,
to have the story of, of theperson that made them, as a
(16:39):
distinguishing, um,characteristic or, or something
memorable.
Something even more memorable.
'cause you can, you can, you cansay the 17, you know, cherry,
berry, tasting, I mean, they,they all become essentially the
same, um, uh, wine, you know,described, um, and there's,
there's tired adjectives that,that the, the additional
component is, is knowing, youknow, the person that made it
(17:00):
and that that tells you anenormous amount.
Mark (17:01):
Mm-hmm.
It, I, I think it tells, you enit, it obviously a memory tool,
but it tells you an enormousamount and some of the things,
sometimes what it tells you is,okay, this farmer or this wine
maker has put.
This extra effort into makingthis right and nine times out of
10, and I won't say 10 times outof 10'cause it's not true.
No, unfortunately
Lettie (17:20):
it's not.
Mark (17:20):
Extra effort translate into better wine.
Right.
Or or better product, whateverthe product is.
Francis (17:26):
Right.
I think, I think there's also,and Lydia, I'm curious to see,
to see if you agree with.
Mean, I think one of the thingsthat people who aren't into wine
don't get, like why people areso crazy about wine is that it's
not all a contest to make thisideal wine.
And that's why where the, thescore system falls short, I
think.
Right.
The idea is you can have 10different Cabernets that are all
great, great Cabernets, they'reall good Cabernets, right?
(17:47):
And.
They're different.
And the thing about great winefrom small producers especially
is that it's unique.
There's nothing else like thewine from this particular
vineyard in this particularyear.
Right, exactly.
And I think, and I think thestory of the winemaker helps,
helps to quantify thatparticular wine.
It's.
Lettie (18:03):
Right, exactly.
'cause it's, it's, it's himexpressing his personality and
also the, the, the character of,uh, presumably, um, the
character of, of that, thatpiece of ground that he's
working on or with.
And, and, and, you know, themore intimate, the connection
between the wine maker and, and,and the vineyard where the wine
is made.
And, uh, and this one phrasethat.
Um, uh, uh, you know, winemakersrepeat ad nauseum, although
(18:26):
there is, there is truth in it.
I've just heard it 5,000 timesand they say it as if they're
the first one to ever say, youknow, wine is made in the
vineyard.
But it is, it is true.
I mean, there has to be thatconnection on intimate
connection to the land.
Understand,
Francis (18:38):
And we're talking with Letty Teague, executive wine
editor at Food and WineMagazine.
So Letty, what's up with theFood and Wine 2006 American Wine
Awards?
What's that all about?
Lettie (18:47):
Oh, well this is a program we do every year.
This is actually the 10th yearthat we've been, uh, recognizing
some of the best wines and themost talented wine makers and
the, uh, the most promising newwineries in America.
Francis (18:58):
Well, one of the things I like about this is you have
the under$20 bottle category andthe over$20 bottle category, and
that's really.
Necessary.
I think,
Lettie (19:06):
yeah, I think that's the way, um, most people buy wine.
Um, well, maybe even a littleless than 20.
Francis (19:11):
What gets you on the list?
What, what are the awardwinners?
So you see, I'm looking at thelist and I have a bunch of my
favorite wines here, but what'syour criteria for, for getting
on the list?
I assume you making decisions.
Lettie (19:20):
Well, actually, if you, if you look, we've got a, a list
of judges.
so it's, it's in fact a, uh, apanel.
Um, it's a, it's very democraticin that sense.
we send out ballots, um, to justabout 30 judges every year.
And these are, these are wineuh, professionals.
They're, they're contributingwriters and editors.
They're wine makers, they'reretailers.
They're
Francis (19:39):
our, um, our ballots must have been lost in the mail.
Yeah.
Lists the
Lettie (19:42):
list.
You know, we want people thattaste.
All the time.
All the time, and really have asense of what's going on, in
American wine.
And then when, and then when wehave the finalists, we, we call
those wines in and, um, at themagazine then we have, um,
basically, you know, the tasteoff uh, at the, uh, you know.
Here at the Office of Food andWine.
Mark (19:59):
I think sometimes people, people, uh, you know, I tell
people I'm going to a winetasting and they look at me
like, uh oh, that must be fun,be awesome.
And I think sometimes peopledon't realize, I gotta go taste
a hundred wines right now.
Yeah.
And try and try and notice thesesubtle nuance in each of them.
And my
Francis (20:15):
finger and lips are gonna be purple and I'm have a.
Lettie (20:18):
And then after that.
Francis (20:19):
Right, right.
No one's gonna wanna map.
It's gonna, the la the last timethat I was invited to sit on a
tasting panel, and it's fun toget to, invited to sit on
tasting panels.
The last, the last tastingpanel, I, I almost, uh, beat a
friend of mine who, who does,uh, wine for the star ledger in
here in New Jersey.
Mm-hmm.
He said, um.
Oh, why don't you come in andsit on the, we're doing this,
we're to be a judge on thispanel.
(20:40):
It was the home wine makingIran.
Lettie (20:43):
Oh, did he not tell you that before?
He
Francis (20:45):
told me the day of.
Oh my lord.
Alright, so, so what should webe drinking on our Thanksgiving
table?
I mean, I'm looking at theThanksgiving issue here of fine
wine.
What, what should be drinkingon, on?
Uh.
Thanksgiving table?
Lettie (20:57):
Well, I mean, you can look at, you can also look at,
uh, the ones from the AmericanWine Awards.
'cause certainly you, a bunch ofthose, um, wines are, are
perfectly appropriate.
And, and heaven knows Pinot isan appropriate, um, wine to
Thanksgiving in terms of, its,its versatility.
uh, Zen, you know, is z iscertainly, uh, the most American
of wines.
And, and I think, you know, it'sgot all those big, rich, ripe.
fruit flavors that I think
Mark (21:18):
that's, that's great with like a lot of those stuffing
spices and things like that Delreally, really, uh, marries well
with
Francis (21:24):
thoses.
I think we wanna point out to,um, consumers out there that,
zinfandel people know what WhiteZinfandel is, which is a Sweet
Rose wine, but Zinfandel manypeople know, but some people
still don't.
That red Zinfandel is a veryfruity alcoholic, uh, uh, wine.
That's, that's a serious wine.
And, and, but not sweet.
Not sweet like white Zinfandel.
(21:45):
Right?
And great with Turkey and yourThanksgiving meal and, and very
versatile, very American becauseit's, we're the only country
except for a few in Australiaand, and South Africa where
you'll find Zinfandel and youcan find Zinfandels for$10 a
bottle.
Elle's for$70 a right.
You
Mark (22:01):
ASEL still, I think one of the best bargains in, in as far
as grape varieties and six Yeah,absolutely.
Because
Lettie (22:05):
there's such a snob factor against it, you know,
because it's perceived as notbeing a noble wine.
Right.
That, um, me alone cabernet is,and, and the fact is, does it
age as, as, as long and as well?
No, but that's the whole, thewhole, juicy and, and exuberant
and, and delicious.
Francis (22:18):
Well, and it's like, does it age well?
No, but I'm gonna drink it onThursday, so who cares if this
bottle's gonna be empty?
This whatever bottle I drink onThanksgiving is not gonna age
past, uh, that Thursday.
So, so who cares?
Even be remembered probably atthe end of the night.
One of the, one of the thingsthat Mark and I like to do, and
especially I think what worksfor Thanksgiving is the, is the,
is the magical pairing is, um.
I like Riesling German orAustrian Rieslings to start and
(22:41):
then Zinfandel with dinner.
I think those are some of themost versatile,
Lettie (22:45):
right?
I think that's excellent choices
Francis (22:45):
of all combinations.
Mark (22:46):
so.
So Letty recently, uh, and inthis, this latest issue, you,
you gotta sit down with FrancisFord Coppola for a little while.
Lettie (22:53):
Yeah, that was, that was really, really, uh, um, a really
interesting and, and prettywonderful experience.
Mark (22:58):
Can you tell us a little bit about your conversation and
you know, what he's doing thesedays?
Um,
Lettie (23:02):
well, you know what he's not doing, I guess.
Mark (23:04):
There you go.
Lettie (23:05):
The man is, is a, you know, a dynamo.
I mean, first of all, he has afilm that he's been working on
for, you know, I don't know, ayear and a half.
It's going to come out sometime,uh, next year.
Uh, that he shot in Romania fora year.
He, um, he, he purchased thewinery ine in Sonoma, um, about,
uh.
Six months ago.
Um, and will be renaming it andreopening it, um, uh, as, as
(23:27):
some extravaganza that hewouldn't, tell me exactly what,
but just it was going to be likea, an all day experience to go
there.
And it sounded like, you know,there were going to be, I could
only speculate, so I won't say,but, um, he's also opening a
hotel in, um, so
Mark (23:37):
it's like Suberin now.
Suberin now gonna be like awaterpark.
Lettie (23:40):
I.
Francis (23:42):
Just so you know, pop Francis Ford Coppola makes, is a
wine maker out in California anda great wine maker
Lettie (23:48):
state.
Yeah.
Is, is his, his primaryproperty, which he lived, his
house was about half a milebehind that.
And, the Rubicon Estate, whichwas up until January of this
year near Neal Coppola, um, youknow, the winery name.
And then he said, you know whatI'm getting rid of, um, I'm
getting rid of all the, theextraneous stuff.
Um, which was, you know, the, Ithought the best, uh, um, you
(24:08):
know, tasting room tchotchkes inNapa.
Um.
All the movie memorabilia, allthe other ones that aren't
Rubicon, which is the flagshipone, um, uh, you know, Bordes s
Blend and shipping it all overto Sonoma where they'll have a
lot more fun and in Napa will beserious.
Francis (24:22):
You know.
You know, one of the things thatI, of his most recent vineyard
acquisition in Napa, it was thatit was the highest price paid
for, uh, vineyard Land in Napaat the time.
Yeah.
$300,000 an acre.
Yeah.
Lettie (24:35):
It's prime acreage in Rutherford, one of the most
established, you know, winemaking regions.
Um, in, in, in America,
Francis (24:40):
in, yeah.
Well, and also he, you knowwhat, if you're France, Fort
Copeland and you wanna make itthe best vineyard anywhere and
make the best wine at can
Lettie (24:45):
Right.
Francis (24:46):
300,000 an acre, just
Lettie (24:48):
write it.
Francis (24:48):
Yeah.
That's sort of like me sayingYeah.
Supersize me is sort, sort ofwhere we are on the Yeah.
I'll take the bottomless coke.
Yeah.
All right.
That's all right.
I
Lettie (24:57):
like that you and Francis have more in common than
you realize.
Francis (24:59):
Yeah, I wish, I wish she'd had adopt me.
Leddy.
I wanted to say thanks forcoming on the show with us.
You've been a blast.
Lettie (25:04):
Thanks.
It's lots of fun.
Francis (25:05):
Thanks.
Ludy.
Leddy Teague is the executivewine editor of Food and Wine
Magazine.
She does a lot of great writing,food and wine magazine.
If you wanna look at ourphilosophy of how, how wine and
food should be integrated, the,the magazine really lives up to
its name and it's largely aresult of, of Letty's effort and
how to structure the magazine.
you're listening to theRestaurant Guys, central Jersey
1450.
(25:41):
Hey everybody.
Welcome back.
You're listening to theRestaurant guys, mark and
Francis of Stage left inCatherine Body Restaurant.
Mark (25:46):
So we just had Letty Teague from Food and Wine
Magazine on and, and we weretalking to her about a couple
articles she wrote recently, andone of the ones was a secret
life of a wine salesman.
And one of the things that Ireally enjoyed about the
article, and I, and I thinkmaybe, maybe I'll, maybe I'll
take it a little bit easier onmy wine sales person, the next
time they come in, and I'll justread you this one line.
Some of the retailers I calledon had been well.
(26:09):
Mean,
Francis (26:11):
you know, it's true though.
I could, I have so much respectfor those guys, for our friends.
And I'm not just saying that'cause they all drive around in
the car and listen to the show.
They, they are
Mark (26:19):
some of our best listeners.
Francis (26:20):
We, but we, I mean we had been approached about
becoming a wine sales.
I remember one of our big winedistributors, a guy named Harmon
Sker, I'll say, I'll say thatname out.
He is a big wine distributor andhe, we've been buying wine from
him since, since it was him andhis brother and one employee.
Now they're the 800 poundgorilla of the wine world.
But I remember, and I remindedhim of this recently,
Mark (26:37):
they won Food and wines, uh, distributor beer, best
distributor a few years back,
Francis (26:41):
well, shortly after we opened the restaurant in like
93, 94, they had these amazingproperties that nobody in New
Jersey was doing.
And we were the only restaurantcustomer, and we were doing it
over the phone, and we were, itwas very exciting.
I talked to Harmon all the time,and I remember he said to me
early on, he said, you know, ifthis restaurant thing doesn't
work out, you can always come towork for us.
And, uh, well Harmon, if you'relistening, um.
(27:02):
I'm glad it worked out.
Mark (27:04):
I'd rather be your best customer than your number one
Zoo Letty talks about, I mean,and again, we didn't get to get
into the, into the wine salesmanarticle very deeply, but she
talks about, you know, ridingthe subway back and forth across
the city, having a
Francis (27:16):
case of wine with you, sande of wine wherever you go on
the subway.
But actually no, uh, wine salesrep.
So I used to date a wine salesrep and she had a lot, some of
her friends had a problem, likeone shoulder was lower than the
other.
Because they're carrying around6, 8, 10 bottles of wine.
I think the one and you canlink.
You can read this article on theSecret Life of a wine salesman.
And she talks about working withthis, this one sales rep who was
(27:36):
really a, a great sales rep whospoke Italian, French,
Portuguese, German, um,fluently, but she was also a
hottie.
Guess who got the best sales?
The two middle ledge guys or thehottie.
Yeah.
And when asked, um, she said,you know, why do you always get
a sales?
She asked this woman, Deidre,um, she said.
Uh, flirting.
I do a lot of flirting and youknow, it's true.
(27:58):
It's absolutely true.
Well,
Mark (27:59):
it works on you better than most.
Francis (28:01):
No, no, that's not true.
I'm Steve Wine salesman hate mebecause I'm Mr.
Like I only, I'm, I'm only wantthose very, you know,
Mark (28:07):
and, and we only have a couple more seconds to talk
about this, but, you know, it'sso hard.
You're, you're as the restaurantside of this.
I know that they're the winesales person's up there waiting
for me, and I want to get tothem as quickly as I can, but my
Francis (28:18):
job is you the customer, but I'm swamped.
My job is you the customer.
So go to our website, check outFood and Wine Magazine, the It's
pretty awesome.
Hope you've enjoyed the hour.
I'm Francis Shot.
And I'm Mark Pascal.
We are the restaurant guys,
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