The Restaurant Guys ON The Wine Makers Pod

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
MJ (00:24):
Yo, everybody, what's up?
It's your boy mj.
Welcome to Beats Vines in life.
Wait, no, wait, wait.
No, no, no, no.

Sam (00:30):
Hey, everybody.
Welcome to the winemakers.
We're here on assignment in NewBrunswick, New Jersey.
I'm, I'm in the motherland, mj,you aren't, I mean, how far did
my mom grow up?
From where?
Where?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're mom is from silver?
Yeah, a little silver Rumson.
And then she lived in Rumson.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's 45 miles.
45 miles.
40, 40 minutes away.
It should be 38, but

Mark (00:49):
you're

MJ (00:49):
right now it's about 70.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because of Route 18.
Right.
But, um, yeah guys, so you know, I've done a lot of shit
with Sam in the winemakers podand, uh, we have some very
special guests.
I'm, Sam introduced a guest, Uh,new old friends, the restaurant
guys, OGs.
Oh yeah.
Go ahead.
Podcast to podcast.
Podcast to pod.

(01:10):
You guys been podcasting since

Mark (01:13):
oh five was our first podcast.
Five.
Did anybody know what

MJ (01:16):
a

Francis (01:16):
podcast was?
In 2005?
We didn't know what a podcastwas.
In 2005, we had a, so podcastswere born in May of oh five when
Steve Jobs allowed non-nativecontent onto the iTunes store.
Okay.
At the
time, right.
iTunes store.
And, but before that it was only Apple content that was
on there.
We had started a radio show at alocal station, W-C-T-C-M, in

(01:40):
February of oh five, and we hada young.
Person who worked for us, whowas smarter than we were, and he
said, Hey, you got all thiscontent.
Why don't you just let us put,put your show up as a podcast?
And we said, what's a podcast?
Podcast?
And so literally within 10 days,we still say that sometimes, but
within 10 days of podcastsexisting, we had a dozen that we

(02:02):
had there were five and we werethem with one.
Yeah.
Was that was it?

MJ (02:06):
But, um, can we introduce them?
Yeah, I was gonna say, okay.
Why don't you guys introduceyourselves for all, all of our
listeners.
Uh,

Mark (02:13):
mark Pascal I, uh, owns with this guy stage left since
1992.
Stage left Steak Now and KaleLombardi since 2005.
Kale Lombardi is my mother'smother, my grandmother, and food
styled after her BrooklynItalian.
Cool.

Francis (02:28):
Kitchen and I, I'm Francis shot.
We have been friends sincecollege and we bartended
together at the same place.
And then we got the restaurantbug and we decided if we were
gonna do the restaurantbusiness, we were gonna own our
own.
And so we, we, we started our,our stage left in 1992.
Uh, we also have a wine shop,don't forget stage left wine
shop.com.

(02:48):
And we have always been aboutstate bottled wine from Smalls
Pro.
Well, yeah, yeah.
You gotta get fucking pro.
You, you gotta get the plug in.
This is

MJ (02:56):
where did that actually put this one out?
We're just here.
This is a a, a university classat how to put Yeah, this some
master class for Well where did,where did, were you at school
in, in New Jersey.
Right?
Right here in the middle of NewBrunswick.
We're like, that's where we are.
And spring break though, all therestaurants are closing down all
the like little casual walkaround.
Oh yes, yes.
You get off the airplane.
Kids are not around.

(03:16):
Kids are gone.
Uh, that's awesome.
So.
what was the radio show?
It was just, it was therestaurant.
It's called The Restaurant Guys.
It was this

Mark (03:23):
every day, same, same

MJ (03:23):
form of interview.
So we, we,

Mark (03:25):
we'd starve five days a week.
Yeah, five days a week.
So we do a little, you know,before the first commercial, 10
minutes, it was just me and himand we tell some story about
what's going on in a restaurant.
Right.
What, what's happening.
Then we spend about 40 minuteswith the guests and then we do
the last five minutes of theshow and close it out.
And so we've kind of kept thatformat now.

Francis (03:45):
Yeah.
We were, we were gluttons forpunishment because we were
building Cafe Novar, our secondrestaurant stage left was one of
the top rated restaurants in thestate.
It was great, but we overloadedin management because we wanted
to be able to migrate, peoplewe're training people to migrate
to the second restaurant.
So we were working, you know,basically a part-time job, 40
hours a week for the first timein our lives.

(04:06):
Right.
So we said, well, let's dosomething that takes 20 hours a
week to, to do.
So we get up to our 60 and.
We thought we would do the radioshow while we were building
Captain Lomb Marty And Stop.
We wound up doing the radioshow, which became a podcast and
radio show, and then stoppedbeing a radio show.
Was only a podcast.
Stop listening to it for theradio.
Well, and we had alreadystopped, to be fair.

(04:26):
I know.
Po We were pretty much done.
But the radio show was, we wereat the radio station five days a
week from 11 to noon every day.
And radio is was that was likereal time live.
Yeah.
And uh, it just wasunsustainable after a while.
What's podcast?
Yeah, that's a, that's a crazyschedule podcast.
It was crazy.
And then go to the

Mark (04:42):
restaurants, work until midnight, then go home, read a
book for the show the nextmorning.
Yeah.
So it was, it was, it wasunsustainable.
I mean, we did it for years, soI guess it was sustainable for
three years.
But it was that, that part of itwas,

Francis (04:57):
but, but you know what was interesting when, when we
took on this radio show, theywere like, ah, it won't be much
prep at all.
'cause what you do is you'regonna have a call in show.
And what a call-in show is.
I respect it a lot.
For radio, you would say,listen, come up with 10
questions, 10 random questions,and then just open the phones.
So you don't really do any prep.
You're like, uh, mark, what doyou think about the

(05:18):
constitution?
He is like, I'm against it.
I'm for it.
Okay.
Call in, you know, and then youspend an hour totally just
answering.
And that if that runs outta gas,you ask another question.
Right.
And, and you know,

Mark (05:28):
and you let people call in and ask questions and, but when
you have a guest every day,like, we, like we did, or do
still, uh, the, the call inwould derail whatever
conversation.
Right.
So Thomas Keller's on the phoneand somebody's asking, you know,
how many bottles of champagneshould I have for my party on
Friday?
Yeah, yeah.
Right.
And like, they're like, I don't know who this Thomas

(05:48):
Cutler guy.

Francis (05:49):
I'm a party Friday.
Well, and so what we did, we,what we, we decided to do long
form interviews.
I.
So that's creating 40 minutes oforiginal content every day, five
days a week.
I mean, it was a full-time job,but it was also, it's awesome
because back then nobody elsehad a podcast.
Yeah.
So you could call Thomas Kel.
We, we had Thomas Keller in theshow.

(06:10):
We had, everybody who was a cordon the show,

MJ (06:14):
like big name guests from

Mark (06:16):
the beginning.
Well, you know, it was adifferent world back then.
And I was just talking tosomebody about this, this
afternoon in 2005, when youwanted to get in touch with
Thomas Keller.
I.
Or some other famous chef whowould still, Charlie Trotter was
a working, was a working chef.
You called the restaurant andyou said, Hey, is Thomas LER
there?
And they said, well, you couldlet me switch you to the kitchen

(06:38):
phone.
And you go to the kitchen phone.
And then somebody would say,okay, uh, what's your name and
number?
Okay.
Uh, chef Ler will call you backwhen he has a chance.
And then the next day, two dayslater, hi, this is Thomas
Keller.
Did I hear you guys have apodcast?
Uh, uh, I'm interested in beingon it.
Great.
Okay.
And it was a very differentthing now than going through a
publicist and a manager becauseeveryone's through life can be

(06:59):
on a podcast.

Francis (07:00):
Exactly.
There's, you know, there's amillion opportunities, right?
Well, and we did.
So yes.
That, that's all true.
But let's not sell ourselves tooshort because what we did was.
We're, we've been, we had beenrunning restaurants for 10, for
10 years at that point.
We had the top restaurant in NewJersey.
We're opening another greatrestaurant in New Jersey, and
people kind of knew us becausewe're all about a state bottled
wine from small producers.

(07:21):
We were the first restaurant inNew Jersey and one of the first
restaurants in America to havecraft cocktails with Dale
DeGraff.
Right.
So like two first shows werepeople we knew.
So Dale DeGraff came on to talkabout cocktails.
Hall Hobbs came on to talk aboutwine.
Um, you know, somehow we gotCharlie Trotter.

MJ (07:36):
There's a little wine maker's podcast thing and it's
hard'cause those was a handledmic.
Yeah.
When you drop big names, we,
I'm have a story, a name, so Ifigured it was gonna be so by
the end of the,

Francis (07:48):
but, but here was the strategy, right?
So we get, we somehow, we gotCharlie Trotter on the show
'cause we knew somebody.
The, uh, we got those, someother big names on the show.
Then the one question they didask you was when you called,
gimme another big name you havein the show when you called BRD
Day bde.
Brd.
That's the one thing Want
hang that one on the desk, but,

(08:09):
but here's what happens.
You call Bordain people, so it's2005.
They don't know you, but theydon't know.
Nobody knows anybody.
There's no Instagram.
There's no way to check rec.
And, uh, they're like, well, whoelse has been on the show?
You're like, oh, CharlieTrotter's been on the show.
Like, oh, okay, well thenAnthony Bra come on the show.
So, so

Mark (08:23):
truthfully, Charlie Trotter was kind of the first
big name guy to come on theshow.
And so having that in yourarsenal of, well, Charlie
Trotter was on the show.
Don't you want to be on a showthat Charlie Trotter was on?
Right, right.
Trotter and Danny Meyer.
Danny Meyer was early on, so,and that's just like 2005

MJ (08:40):
six.
That was was Danny Meyer.
I'm in college in, in Reno.
So, so I realized

Mark (08:46):
Gramercy Tavern at that time is number and used Square
Cafe and you are the, areliterally one and two
restaurants in Manhattan at thattime.
Yeah.
So, so he was, so they were.
They were doing okay.
I I read something that, thatDanny said something like, I
will never open another finedining restaurant again because
of the amount of work it is torun a fine dining restaurant

(09:08):
compared to running a ShakeShack and Well, and, and, and
how repeatable something likeShake Shack is and 11 Madison
Park just simply isn'trepeatable.

Francis (09:16):
Right.
Well, even if 11 Madison Parkmakes you millions, shake Shack
makes you billions.
Billions.
You know?

MJ (09:21):
Right.

Francis (09:21):
God bless them.

MJ (09:22):
There's not an 11 Madison Park in every airport.
Exactly.
So let's talk about that sort oflike evolution of the restaurant
business a little bit.
Sure.
And first of all, like, youknow, you were bartending in
college.
What made you crazy enough togo, let's, instead of like
working at a somebody else'srestaurant and having a normal
life, what, like go all in from,from the get?

(09:45):
Well,

Mark (09:45):
first of all, that's total crap.
'cause working in somebodyelse's restaurant is still not a
normal life.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
So just, I just need to clarify.
So for me the, the story is like a lot of restaurant
people, I graduate college, Ihave a, a, a multiple degrees.
I'm a statistic economicpsychology triple major.
I'm ready to take on the world.

(10:05):
I get a job, I'm working out asa statistician for an insurance
company.
And I'm at that desk for threedays and I'm like, what am I
doing here?
And literally, if you includeLabor Day weekend, I worked the,
my eighth day I said.
I'm sorry, I can't do this for aliving.

(10:27):
And I turned in my resignationand I went back to the
restaurant I was still workingin on, in weekends.
And so can I have my shiftsback?
Said say, can I please workmore?
And I said, yes, absolutely.

Sam (10:37):
Never said no restaurateur ever said no to that.
Exactly.

Francis (10:41):
Well, it was, it was a similar thing for me.
It was I was gonna law school.
I actually got into Seton HallLaw School where both of my
sisters graduated but I was justlike, I, it's not for me.
I, I like bartending.
I like, and I still hadn'tdecided what I wanted to do and
I went and I traveled aroundEurope for a while and I came
back and then we were bothworking at the same place and.
We, there was a little dealwhere we kind of tried to buy

(11:03):
that place a management buyoutwith the chef and the general
manager and the two of us.
And that didn't quite work out,but it made us think, you know
what, I planted the seed.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And we we're gonna do this forourselves.
And so it took us about twoyears until we found a little
spot and, uh, we opened alittle.
50 seat restaurant.
Uh, and um, and it became thehottest ticket in New Jersey,

(11:26):
and now it's 225 seatrestaurants and a wine shop with
a sidewalk cafe.
It's bigger now.
It's, it's, uh, you know, it'sgood.
And it's been 32 years.
32
years.

MJ (11:36):
Yeah.
How does your family, how doesyour, your parents feel about
this?
Not gonna law school?
Because I, my dumb ass, I did goto law school.
Oh.
I went to Rutgers and have neverpracticed law a day in my life.
Um, and you obviously could havehad, you know, you could have
been CCFO of Johnson and Johnsonright here in town, you know,

(11:56):
and you, I'm, I'm CFO of Markand Francis.
That's
significant.
But what was, what was like theapparent reaction, you know,
like.
To like, you're gonna do what,right?
You have three degrees.
Yeah.
And you're gonna law school andthe two of, you're gonna open a
50 C restaurant.
All

Mark (12:11):
right.
So how, yeah,

MJ (12:12):
how did that, how

Mark (12:13):
did those decisions?
This, I, I think this should sayeverything about that.
So within the last month.
Okay.
Now remember Kale Lombardi is,is named after my mother's
mother.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I, I have named a restaurantafter my mom.
My mom says to me, you know, Ibought you those five suits and

(12:33):
you never used them.
That's so, so, so that's that.
I think that expresses the, theemotion of our parents as made

MJ (12:43):
this Yeah.

Sam (12:43):
I have both a Jewish and Italian grandmother.
Uh, and if I had worn one of thesuits, they'd gone, you didn't
like the other ones?

Francis (12:52):
I had a, I had a similar thing, Mike.
Uh, I remember I, I dropped thebomb at the, now I had already
declined law school and said Iwas gonna go find myself in
Europe.
I found myself, turns out I wasa jerk.
I came back home, so we wantedto send him away.
Oh, look at me.
So, uh, anyway, so I, I'mworking as a bartender and I, I
dropped the bomb.

(13:12):
I said, uh, it's a Easterdinner, and I said, mark and I
are gonna try and open arestaurant.
Dead silence.
I mean, silence.
And my family is never silenttable, but they didn't say
anything negative.
And my dad was like, well, ifyou wanna give this a try, give
us a try.
We owned the restaurant.

Mark (13:28):
Hold on.
True, true story.
Yeah.
There's no one who didn't thinkwe were gonna fail.
Oh yeah.
Okay.
So they were like, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Open your restaurant.
You don't have any money tolose.
It's okay.
Yeah.

Francis (13:38):
Well that was great.
So, so I, I, yikes.
And my dad's like, okay, trythis for a couple years, then
you'll go to law school.
And, um, I, I had three stars inthe New York Times.
We were rated like the topAmerican restaurant in Central
Jersey.
And my, and I was 36 and my dadwas like.
So when are you gonna go to lawschool?

(13:59):
When is he?
And I think
I
was like, I don't, I don't think I'm going that, I
don't think I'm going

MJ (14:04):
like that.
That ship is sailing.

Francis (14:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sailing

MJ (14:07):
out of the New York Harbor should go.
Honestly,

Francis (14:09):
I think you should go.
It's not two limitations, oneon.
I would say though our familiesboth love our restaurants and it
really, and our restaurants haveprovided a real way to come
together and a place to cometogether for both our immediate
and our extended families.
And, and our families know andlike each other, you know, more
than we like each other.
Yeah.
In fact,

MJ (14:29):
and I wouldn't wanna ask because I like to go back, but,
um, where, where, where eachyou, where are each of you from
and what, in your childhood,where, where did you develop a,
a love of food, of wine in yourchildhood that kind of stayed
with you and led to going intobars

Mark (14:45):
I'll, I'll go first'cause I'm probably more traditional
this way.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, so.
My mother's family is ItalianAmerican.
Been here since the 1880s, livedin Brooklyn her whole life.
Grew up in Brooklyn.
Mm-hmm.
That food, that culture, Sundaysin Brooklyn, hospitality
ingrained that my father wasborn in France, French mom.

(15:06):
Uh, so that French grandmotheron that side, variant to food,
variant to cheese.
He owned an import exportcompany.
Lots of travel.
Um, my father was cheap exceptfor travel, experience and food.
He spent money on those twothings, basically on those two
things only.
But it was always culinaryexperience.

(15:27):
As, as a 10-year-old, the, mymother said, what do you want me
to make you for your birthday?
And I said, duck la.
So I was, I was into the foodthing from early on.
Got it.
Uh, loved it.
I did a lot of traveling.
I was very fortunate.

Francis (15:43):
I grew up in an Irish family and I, the, the joke that
if you've been to the restaurantyou've probably heard me say is
that Mark is three quartersItalian and a quarter French.
She had an Italian grandmotherand a French grandmother.
Both were excellent cooks.
I had two Irish grandmothers.
One of them didn't cook and theother one shouldn't have.
So it did not, it was not, nowmy mom made a good wholesome,
you know, Chuck steak dinneronce a week.

(16:05):
I mean, she made it.
It, it was good food.
We had decent, wholesome food,but it with the, my father loved
good food and we'd go out forreally great ice cream, or
really great pizza, I grew up inOrange, New Jersey, which was
about a third Irish, a thirdItalian, a third black, all
working class.
Everybody was a truck driver, acop, a fireman, whatever.
And there were good Italianrestaurants in, in the town, and

(16:27):
I mean cheap, you know, workingman's restaurants.
I didn't grow up with reallygreat food in my household, but
I always loved great food and Ipicked up a love of cooking in
high school.
And then I came to college and Ijust, it was always something I
was interested.
I worked in supermarkets andMark and I became friends When I
transferred directors.
We, we lived on the same floorOkay.
Sophomore year, uh, secondsemester, sophomore year.

(16:47):
So I'm like halfway through theyear, nobody knows me.
And, uh, mark, of course is the,is the big fraternity guy.
Everybody loves him.
He's, you know, he's the centerof
I love, he's the John, he's the,
he's the John Mahi character out here.
But I would come home for mynight supermarket job and they
would give us the bread that wasgonna expire that day and the
last day of his specialtycheeses.

(17:08):
So I'd come home with like ahunk of really good cheese and a
loaf of bread under my arm atlike one o'clock in the morning.
And you were French.
And I've been drinking and I'vebeen drinking for five hours.
And he'd be like, Hey, new kid.
And, uh, so that's, that's,that's how we, I was accepted
immediately, you know?
Uh, anyway, so.
So, so I had that and then Istarted working in restaurants

(17:29):
and I just, I loved it.
I mean, I loved, um, David Drakewas the chef at Frog Peach,
which was a restaurant, was apioneering restaurant, opened in
83 here in New Brunswick.
Jim Black and Betsy Alger a bit.
We both wound up working thereeventually, but David Drake was
the chef to cuisine at the time.
He allowed me to stand in thekitchen.
Iica hires a bartender, and Iwas like, what is this?

(17:50):
We've never seen anything likethis before.
And I totally got the, but Itotally got the of.

MJ (17:56):
Basic breakdown that you guys in the restaurant is your
front of house and your backhouse?
We're both front.

Mark (18:00):
We're both front of house.
Both front of house.
We're both trained front ofhouse.
We, we've always had chefs nowvery fortunate for us.
You know, the, the chef of stageleft has been with us now for
17, 18 years, and the chef atCatholic party has been close to
20.
So, so we're, we're fortunatethat we've had that kind of
stability.

MJ (18:18):
How did, how did, how did you do that?
Because that's, that's about,that's not really common for
this industry.
It's it's turnover, turnover,turnover, and people seeking new
opportunities.
How did you able to cultivatethat culture?
Well,

Mark (18:29):
to be fair, the first 10 years it, what?
We had 12 different chefs.
Wow, okay.
So you, you're just.
You, you get that right and youget people turn and turn and
turn.
And uh, then we had a guy by thename of Patrick Eve, Pierre
Jerome, and he owned arestaurant called Eve,
originally in Montclair.
And he came and he kind ofstabilized that position.

(18:51):
He was there for about fouryears.
He stabilized that position.
Then another guy by the name ofAnthony Buco was there for,
again, for about four years.
And those two guys really helpedus, like I said, stabilize that
position.
so, I mean, Fernando's been withus for 20, 28 now years.
He's our 28 years.
He's, so if you've had.

(19:12):
A grilled steak or burger atstage left for the last 28
years, chances are Fernandocooked it.
Uh, you know, so they, theyreally stabilized the rest of
the kitchen guys.
And honestly, for a chef, thejob gets a lot easier when all
the guys around you are staying.
Mm-hmm.
So that was the first part ofit.
The first part of it was thatthe, the second and third level

(19:35):
guys were rock solid and then.
There's more, you know, reasonto stay.

Francis (19:41):
And, you know, mark and I, we have these two restaurants
that are in the same buildingand the wine shop that's in the
same building.
We're really dedicated.

MJ (19:47):
It's a really cool looking building, by the

Francis (19:47):
way, it is a hundred years old this year.

MJ (19:49):
Oh wow.
1 25 just turned

Francis (19:51):
a hundred.
We had a birthday party for it.
It stands out.

MJ (19:52):
Sure.
It's cool.

Francis (19:53):
And, uh, you see it tonight when we light it up.
It's gorgeous.
You'll see it, you will see itat night.
But here's a, just a couplehours
here,
Katie, here's the plug.
We're doing this from the rehotel, which is the hotel right
across the street.
New Brunswick is a wonderfultown.
We're talking about NewBrunswick at some point because
Yes.
Yeah,
yeah.
We,
I hopefully we've helped make New Brunswick a
better place, but because of NewBrunswick, it has helped us to
become what we are.

(20:13):
But you know, it's all aboutlong-term relationships.
And probably what would've beenmade more economic sense, even
in the restaurant business wasfor us to open four or five
places.
You know, take a place, open it,run it, sell it for

Mark (20:24):
sure.
Financially.
Open, open eight or 10 capitalLombardi's especially'cause
Yeah, more repeatable.
I think that stage left.
Sure.
And,

Francis (20:31):
and we may open some other capital Lombardi in the
future, but we decided to make acareer here and we provided this
stable platform.
And the most valuable relationsships to us are long-term
relationships, whether that'sregular customers, whether
that's our, our front of housepeople like or my wife.
but really she's sitting in thecorner.

MJ (20:50):
You're wondering, I know but she's taking notes though.
She's got a list

Francis (20:53):
all, always taking notes.
But the, but the two things thathappen aren't, you find people
who value long-termrelationships as well and then
over time.
Everybody knows that we've gottheir back.
We're, it is very highstandards.
you can't come in and screw upmy business and you have to
contribute something.
But if you, if you fall on ourtimes and you're a long harm
employee of ours, we have yourback.

(21:15):
If you get sick, if you, we'vebailed people out of jail.
We'll share some funny storiesbehind that.
Um, we've never, I've broughtpeople getting arrested.
We've, we've never had to bebailed out of jail ourselves.
But we have, uh, you know, andpeople see how you treat other
people.
And, The more long-termrelationships like that you can
get the, the better it can be.
I mean, FRA frankly,

Mark (21:33):
Francis and I have, I have, I have the same, a lot of
the same friends that I had whenI was 10 years old.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Francis is still considered thenew guy in, in our friend group
because he came on at 19, right?
So, so almost 40 years ago hecame onto the scene and if
there's an event going on, I'mlike, sorry, you're the new guy.
If one of us has to work and oneof us has to stay, I'm going,

(21:56):
you're staying

MJ (21:58):
well, let's, uh, big up new Brun a little bit.
Yeah, sure.
This is my first time here.
Tell me, you know, tell me whatI should be looking for when I'm
walking around tomorrow.
You know, down the, is like theriver's over there or that a

Francis (22:08):
we have a little park on the river front.
Okay.
It was one of the oldest citiesin the country.
George Washington had his armyhere.
The first 4th of Julycelebration in the country was
in New Brunswick, New Jersey, inthe 4th of July, 1777.
Wow.
Um, Queens

MJ (22:21):
College, Queens First Charter College by Green
England, 1766

Francis (22:26):
New Brunswick.
And that became, became, okay.
So New Brunswick.
By the time the 19 in the 1960sinto the seventies, new
Brunswick suffered the same.
Malaise is every northeastern,uh, post-industrial regional
capital, the industry had left.
Crime was on the rise, housingstock was tired and, and the
infrastructure was fallingapart.

(22:46):
And, um, there was, in the lateseventies into the early
eighties, there was a realconcerted effort.
Johnson and Johnson was thefinancial anchor.
That's a Fortune 50 companywhere their world headquarters
and they basically delivered NewBrunswick and ultimatum.
We are either gonna.
Move to Virginia, and we'll bethe last, you know, we'll close
the door on the way out andwe'll turn the lights off.
Or you clean up your politicsand figure out a way to, and

(23:09):
work and we'll, we'll dump a tonof money and time and resources
into this town.
Uh, but, but it can't be corruptand you gotta figure out how to

MJ (23:17):
Same doesn't understand New Jersey politics.

Francis (23:19):
you've seen this around, that's all true by the
way, high school does Ishish,but based on

MJ (23:29):
it was

Francis (23:29):
allegedly true.
That's our favorite word in NewJersey, allegedly.
It really is.
No, no.
The state

MJ (23:34):
New Jersey knew perfect together.

Francis (23:36):
Allegedly, but here's what happened in New Brunswick.
So you had a, a number ofdifferent corporations from, one
of them is a corporation calleddevco, which was a first of its
kind public private partnershipto redevelop New Brunswick.
We've done over$4 billion worthof building in this city of
60,000 over the last 20 yearswith of B.
Um, and we've had the same mayorfor 35 plus years.

(23:57):
Mayor Jim Kale's.
Amazing, amazing.
And, uh, you

Mark (24:00):
know, great leadership, good for

Francis (24:02):
business.

Mark (24:03):
You know, that's, that's been the key, honestly.
Clean, honest leadership of the,of the town.

Francis (24:07):
And you've seen this hotel it get built where there
once was a, an abandoned oldhotel.
You, you see all sorts of newbuilding.
And the interesting thing aboutNew Brunswick was it was
redeveloped in a way that, likeI saw a lot, I studied politics
in urban politics in school, andyou see a lot of cities that
redeveloped.
Basically kicking all the peoplewho live there out poor and

(24:28):
working class, long branch, NewJersey, where I'm from.
Okay.
And I'm making no comment onthat, but yeah.
But kicking out all the poorpeople, bringing in new people,
building new buildings andsaying, Hey, we redeveloped the
city.
Yeah.
Right.
Here's$2 million condo for you.
Yeah, exactly.
You didn't, you didn't, you, youtore the old one down and built
a new one.
You didn't redevelop the city.
Right, right, right.
What we did in New Brunswick waswhen they tore down the housing
projects, which I remember theday, they dynamite of them.

(24:50):
They spent the 10 years priormaking sure that in every new
development had under.
Secretly, one for one housing,one for one replacement reserve.
Every single person in thatproject secretly was the key,
because people come

MJ (25:05):
outta fucking world.
Oh yeah.
They, if you say affordablehousing, yeah.
It's like, well, New Jersey, Imean, that, that lawsuit, that's
Mount Laurel.
They, they still don't complywith that shit.
But what

Francis (25:16):
we did, what they did in New Brunswick was they was,
they had this plan for scatteredsite housing.
They told every developer, ifyou wanna build something new in
New Brunswick, you have to setaside this amount for low.
So for low income housing.
Affordable housing.
And what they did was they tookthe old projects, which weren't
working.
They were architecturallyterrible.
They were, and they werereplaced one for one, each of

(25:36):
those units.
And the, the redevelopment, andwe've been happy to be a part of
it, was finding jobs for thepeople who live here.
Keeping the people who live hereempowered, staying in touch with
the communities that live here.
And because of that, we have astrong social fabric.
Throughout New Brunswick.
It's not just the businesscommunity and one that's been
here for a long time.
The

Mark (25:54):
Hungarian community has been here a long time.
It's still here.
It's still thriving.

Francis (25:58):
The Mexican community, we embraced the immigrants who
came in the seventies andeighties to the point where the,
we have a Mexican consulate inNew Brunswick.
The cons on the Mexico is herein New Brunswick.
That was in the last couple ofyears because there's such a
strong, important Mexicancommunity that is first
generation and Mexicanimmigrants here, second
generation and second.

(26:18):
So this

Sam (26:19):
is a place on the East coast where I can get a decent
taco.
Oh, it's when I come out, youknow, I love New York.
I, it's been better lately, butin beginning of my like selling
wine on the road life, like thefirst thing I'd have to do when
I get back to California is havelike a real time,

Mark (26:32):
you know, Tuesday.
Well, well, the only thing I'mgonna say to that is realize you
have a 12 month growing seasonthat

MJ (26:38):
we have.

Francis (26:40):
So yeah, so the sound is great and the thing about
this town is we, they did theirredevelopment based very heavily
on, uh, the arts and educationand hospitals, and then the
private businesses grew uparound that, we're happy to be a
part of it.
Yeah,

MJ (26:54):
happy to be part of it seems like a sustainable way of doing
it

Francis (26:57):
seems to be working out for New

Mark (26:58):
Brunswick.
Yeah.
They worked on Center City andthey've kind of built their way
out.

MJ (27:04):
So, let's pivot back to your podcast.
You guys come out the gate andyou, you're able to score a
great guest.
how long did you do, because Iknow there was a, you had went
on hiatus for a while.
How long did you go and thenwhat prompted you to come back?

Mark (27:18):
So did live radio.
2005 to 2008.
Okay.
During that time, three

MJ (27:23):
years of five day a week.

Mark (27:24):
Five day a week.
Well, by the end we're doing aone, a rerun or something once a
week.
But yeah, four days a week,certainly.
so three years of that and justsimply, you know, we talk about
sustainability, not, notsustainable to, to continue to
do that.
So in oh eight we went to a oncea week podcast.
We did that through 13.
and then we just said, you knowwhat, it wasn't, you know, there

(27:46):
was no way to make money on itin 2013, right?
it was not a sustainable part.
No.
Yeah, yeah.
Uh, mark had four kids and theywere tv.
Yeah.
I have four kids that weregrowing up, you know, I wanna
coach football, I wanna, dothose kinds of things.
so we just stopped.
And then kind of during covid.
We started having, we had moretime, more time to talk about

(28:06):
things.
And I would say that's where itwas born.
Again, the idea of it was bornagain, and then this past July
we, we rebooted it and said,let's go.
Uh, we had a couple of nicecorporate sponsors that came
aboard.
And what,

MJ (28:22):
see that's what happens when you are in the community and you
build up and, I mean, yeah,like, like I was gonna say, as
an independent podcaster, it'sstill hard to make money.
Yeah, of course.
It's not,

Francis (28:32):
you know.
Well, and here's a plea,everyone, if you wanna come to
our, our show, we have.
We have paid subscribers, so youcan always follow, see most of
our content for free, but wehave paid subscribers who get
additional content, who getinvited to special things.
Um, but our corporate sponsorssponsored us enough that we
could pay the bills of doing thepodcast.
Exactly.
Well, the work that goes intothe podcast, well, Mark's wife

(28:52):
is basically full-time on thepodcast and she works 40 hours a
week editing, you know, settingup guests.
And we have other employees,Julie, who operates our
restaurants also helps us.
We have paid researchers whomake sure that we're prepared
when we go in and our corporatesponsors basically cover those
costs and then our paidsubscribers, you know, kind of
make it worthwhile to do andthat we're kind of growing as we

(29:13):
grow.
And, you know, that's aninteresting way to, to, to make
things happen.

Mark (29:16):
And we've just added.
Just in the last couple months.
So New Brunswick Performing ArtsCenter is right next door to us.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and they've invited us to dofour a, a series, a culinary
series with four live shows,which Awesome.
Yeah.
We've, we've just,

MJ (29:32):
they're promoting the heck out of all over town.
It's hard to avoid the littlerep guys.
Excellent.

Mark (29:37):
I mean,

MJ (29:37):
these guys are, they're like, they're like, max, we
walked into the hub like, Hey,like a whole staff and there's a
freaking poster.
I didn't even notice what theposter you guys when

Francis (29:45):
I came in the first.
I'm like, damn man.
Well, it's, you know, I, I willsay that the, uh, the hotel
we're sitting in is one of thesponsors of the restaurant guys
podcast.
So it's immediately a hedricktrying.

MJ (29:56):
So

Francis (29:57):
if you're looking

MJ (29:57):
us

Francis (29:57):
while, is there any other podcasts?
On a second.
I need to take a small break.
So when coming to New Re Hotel?
So, the other thing that wediscovered, which was pretty
first of all, the live shows.
Have you heard of a podcastthat's basically six months old
for the new one Four Live shows,a 400 seat theater in, in a paid
ticketed event with RoccoDiSpirito.
Alex won Shelly, um, AndrewZimmer.

(30:18):
Andrew Zimmer and Scott Kona.
And Scott Kona.
I mean, that's crazy, right?
And we, and we just got aninquiry from, I can't give you
the details.
We're probably gonna do a liveshow or two in Belfast, in
Ireland.
Oh wow.
So we'll be international soon.
It'll be amazing.
But the live shows are amazing.
One of the things that's reallydifferent about our podcast,
just listening to it though, wesaid, okay, let's resurrect the

(30:40):
podcast.
Let's listen to the old podcastand see how we are.
We realized we had almost 500shows of old shows.
Wow.
And 350 of them were evergreen.
They're like this.
Cool.
Mm-hmm.
So every Tuesday is a new showand every Thursday is one of the
shows from our Archives.
Archives.
And then every other Saturday isa bonus show for, for the, uh,

(31:00):
so you guys about three episodesa week?
Two,

Mark (31:03):
two and a half.

Francis (31:03):
Two and a half.

MJ (31:04):
Two

Mark (31:04):
and half.

MJ (31:04):
that does sound like a full-time job.

Mark (31:05):
One full-time job.
One of the things that happenedwas the guests that were on our
show.
Okay.
Frankly, some of them are dead.
Right?
Yeah.
Okay.
You know, you got CharlieTrotter, Anthony Bourdain, you
know, there's some of'em justsimply passed away, but most of
the rest of them.
We're successful then.
So 20 years later, they're stillsuccessful.

(31:26):
Right.
There's their stories.
So we interviewed a woman todayabout caviar.
Well, it's a woman.
We talked to Deborah Keen.
Deborah Keen talked to her aboutcaviar 20 years ago and when she
had the first farmed mm-hmm.
Caviar in California.
So today we talked about theevolution of it.
That was certain company.
So we did, we talked about theevolution of, of American caviar

(31:48):
over the last 20 years was, wasthe subject of today's show.
So now you can listen to the oldshow with Deborah Keen from 20
years ago, which is fascinating.
It's, and she start, begins thewhole farmed, United States,
California, caviar revolution.
And now 20 years later withwhere it's gone to and, and now,
fascinating.
She

Francis (32:08):
has the first patent on No Kill Caviar, which will be
released in the fall.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's ever, and on the showtoday, we're like.
she agreed that she's gonna dothe launch, the East Coast
launch.
Gonna be at stage left inSeptember.

MJ (32:22):
September.
Wasn't so

Francis (32:23):
busy

MJ (32:23):
for me.
Yeah, it might be a little bit,whatcha you doing in September?
I don't know.
What do you got to do?
Like Thanksgiving?
And actually, I was gonna askyou about this just sort of in
general, like from when youopened stage left to now, sort
of like the evolution of, offood culture, both, you know,

(32:44):
across the country, but, butlocally, there's so much more
emphasis now.
On, on far a table and, andlocally produced and, and
watching that, you know, sort oftransform in your dining room
must have been great.
Yeah.

Mark (32:57):
Francis Francis, uh, is, is gonna talk a little bit
about, you know, our, ourphilosophies in 1992.
Were forward thinking, Iconsider them forward thinking
because here we are in theforward.

Francis (33:10):
Right.

Mark (33:10):
And everybody's thinking the way we were in 1992.

Francis (33:13):
We, we opened in 92 and we said we were gonna be
seasonal.
We were gonna be driven by localfarms.
We were the first people to putthe names of farms on the
restaurant to have relationshipswith local farmers.
we were estate bottled winesfrom small producers.
I used to say that no one knewwhat the hell I was talking
about.
We were the only ones.
We were the only ones.
Right.

Mark (33:30):
Nobody knew what an estate bottled wine from a

Francis (33:32):
small, they never knew why it mattered or

Mark (33:34):
any

Francis (33:34):
of that.

MJ (33:34):
And was that both domestic and, and Oh yeah.
No, it's'cause it's New Jersey.
No, no, but in the, I'm kidding.
I'm kidding.

Francis (33:41):
so we dealt early with, you know, Jake, our mutual
friend Jake, was working forMichael Sterk at the time.
So we were buying wines from,and if people outside the
business might not know thesenames, but back in 92 we were
buying wines or Okay.

MJ (33:52):
Yeah.

Francis (33:54):
Believe bought wines primarily from shout

MJ (33:56):
out Harmon, Harmon Harmon's, my guy,

Francis (33:59):
his Harmon.
So Nik Wines back at night too.
We were the first New Jerseyrestaurant com customer of Ker
Wine.
Yes, you were.
We were the first New Jerseyrestaurant customer of Rosenthal
Wines.
Oh wow.
Um, we bought from Bobby Catcherwho, uh, all a lot of clinging,
a lot clinging, but, um, bigcling episode.
But the thing is, it was a real challenge back then
because people would walk in andsay, where's the vis one?

(34:20):
I was like, I don't like, ah,restaurant must I.
Oh, you can't

Mark (34:27):
get

Francis (34:27):
Mondavi reserved.
You can't, oh, is that, is thatwhy you don't have it?
And, and, and they're like,well, this doesn't, you don't
have any of the steakhousewines.
I'm like, I, why do you want meto have the same wines as
everyone else?
Now people understand that,right?
People understand that you go toa restaurant.
Because that restaurant has apoint of view and has made a
selection.
And, and there are plenty ofrestaurants that have this
standard wine, and that's goodtoo.
But back then we had people whosaid, we, I'm sorry.

(34:50):
We had a lot of people who wereopen to education and New
Brunswick deserves a lot ofcredit for all the people who
kept us alive and supported us.
But there was a lot of pushback.
So, what do you mean?
I, I don't wanna see any namesthat I don't recognize when I
look at a wine list and we wereall, oh, you want Alban Vier?
Who's Alban and what's Vier?
You know, and Shut, thank GodAlban's bringing it out.

(35:10):
But you know that, and, but itworked solely to our advantage
because we were so, there'd beall of those importers that I
talked about.
They got an allocation for NewYork and they get 10 cases for
all of New York, and they getone case for New Jersey.
Difference was you had 25 of thecoolest sommelier in, in America

(35:32):
fighting for those 10 cases inNew York.
Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah.
Nobody in New Jersey gave a shit but us.
And so we got everything.
We got Turley, we got Marcuson,we got and, and then people
caught on later, but we,
sorry, But it wasn't about
scores.
It was about, but then aseverybody came in later, we had
established those relationships.
Right.
Kathy Goon was a friend.
Paul Hobbes was a friend.
No digging.
Okay.

(35:52):
No,

MJ (35:52):
no, no, no.
We actually, we just had Kathyon our show.
We'd be out on Friday of Van.
Crazy.

Francis (35:57):
but the thing, it wasn't score hunting.
it was, these were individualswho were farming land and making
wine with a point of view.
And that's what we cared about.
And

Mark (36:06):
we had, and also we also had a point of view.
Right.
Right.
And it was different than other,some other restaurants and some
other restaurants were lookingfor.
Big juicy berry fruit forwardwines and that high score, that
famous high score.
And that's the only things youwould see on their list.
And our point of view was alittle different.
Yeah.
Okay.

(36:26):
And we wanted our wines to speakof where they came from.
We wanted our wines to, it wasjust a, a at that time, a
different philosophy.
Like I said, why?
I know it was forward thinking.
'cause here we are andeverybody's saying all those
things.
Right.
That we were saying 30 yearsago.

MJ (36:41):
How long did it take for that tide to sort of shift?

Mark (36:44):
Uh, it's past 2000, certainly.
Mm-hmm.
Uh,'cause I, 2000, yeah.
I would say, I would say ohfive.
now listen, our customers caughton pretty quickly.
Right.
They, they're like, wow, this is great.
And I can spend 60 cents on thedollar and get these cool wines
that I love.
That, that sold for us.
So that, that helped us buildour own reputation with our

(37:06):
clients.
Help

Francis (37:06):
do, do you know who was a great guy?
Uh, who helped us build ourreputation?
Which was an interesting storyis when All Hobbs first came
out, we were the firstrestaurant outside of California
to sell all Hobbs wines.
Wow.
He happened to be at the wineboat tasting at the pup building
in New York City, and a friendof mine brought me over and
said, try these wines you'regonna need like wind chimes or
something.

MJ (37:27):
Who's gonna be background music, blood pipe?
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding,ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

Francis (37:31):
Yeah.
Ard a pinot and a cat.
No.
Sard and cab.
Only at that.
Oh, char and cab only at that.
And they were in Shiners.
They were not even labeled.
So it was the 90 ones that hewas showing.
And I remember I put my nose inthe glass and I was like, who
are you?
You know what I mean?
I was like, this is, that's notfor shut.
Say, you said, who the fuck,fuck

(37:52):
are,
And he was like, oh, I'm Paul.
I'm super nice guy.
Right.
Originally to the East coast,but California.
Nice.
And uh, I was like, I, I gotta,I gotta, I gotta have these
wines and I'm a, I'm a pushy27-year-old.
And I was like, uh, I, I got up,I got these wines.
He's like, well, I wasn't gonnarelease him until the spring.
I'm like, please send five casesof each to me.

(38:14):
He iss like, well, they're notready.
I'm like, I'll explain toeverybody that they're not ready
while I, so we sent them, wesold a Tom package'cause we have
a special license.
Our license in New Jersey allowsus to sell in the restaurant as
well.
It's called a Broad Sea, allowedus to sell package as well.
And so we did the first PaulHobbs dinner in, uh, 1993.
Yeah.
And, uh, we became fast friendsever since, but.

(38:35):
The critics initially, Parkerinitially did not take to Paul
Hops.
He was giving him wines thatwere not as highly rated, rated
as they eventually became.
And we were like, he was talkinglots of 80 sevens, 88 to 89.

MJ (38:47):
Well, and those, I mean, in those days, uh, well

Francis (38:49):
those were real, real scores.

MJ (38:50):
Well, a and they were real scores, but in the, but it was
Parker or nothing.

Francis (38:54):
Exactly.
Right.
And we was That's exactly right.
We were literally telling, we'rein our little 50 seat restaurant
and we were the bartender inthe, in the major.
We were like, Parker's wrong onthis one.
He's wrong, he's wrong, he'swrong, he's wrong.
Right.
And we, so we did a couple ofdinners over a couple of years.
We sold a lot of people, had alot of Paul Hobbes in their
cellar, and then Parker startedrating them better.
And then he went back andrerated the early ones.
He said, I was wrong.

(39:14):
These wines are great.

Mark (39:15):
When Parker said he was wrong, he was basically saying
Mark and Francis were right.
Yeah.
And,

Francis (39:21):
and a lot of our guests who were into that, who were
like, alright, it's not a highscorer.
We'll buy from you anyway.
All of a sudden they're like,
you were right.
I'm a genius like that.
You're
genius.
Got.
So for sure he was important to us.

Mark (39:35):
we've had that dinner for 33 years in a row.
Wow.
We've done 30 it, it is thelongest, running wine dinner
with, uh, the same wine maker,same restaurant in the country.

MJ (39:46):
That doesn't surprise me.
I mean, the fact that that'salso, that, that Paul Hobbes has
been the owner and winemakerYeah.
Exactly.
Is 33 years and hasn't, you knowYeah.
Sold out or, you know, it's,it's, it's an impressive run
that

Francis (39:58):
the owner of the winery is the same.
Is is special.
The owner, the restauranttotally is special.
And we've been doing this since93.
Yeah.
That's a, it's a, that's

MJ (40:05):
a Venn diagram that doesn't usually

Francis (40:07):
intersect.

MJ (40:08):
Yeah.
Well, I know, you know, we, we,we've been talking a little bit
before, and when I, when Itasted with you Francis, uh, a
couple months ago, but you know,this, it's, it's not necessarily
the Cheeriest wine andrestaurant marketplace out in
the world right now.
Um, but what are the, it's notnecessarily the cheeriest
marketplace, right?

(40:29):
Period, but, but are you seeingbright spots?
Are you seeing, like,interesting things and trends
with wines that are sellingthat, that are sort of
surprising you?
Or, or going back to thingsthat, you know, weren't popular
and coming back?
What's, what's, let's, let's,let's mind for the good news.

Mark (40:43):
All right, let's, let's go to the bad news first.

MJ (40:45):
Okay.

Mark (40:46):
Chardonnay is gone.
Yeah.
I can't sell, I don't sell.
I sell some Chardonnay by theglass.
I would say I sell.
One or two bottles of Chardonnaya week in the restaurants.
In the

Francis (40:59):
two

Mark (41:00):
restaurants.
In the two restaurants, right.

MJ (41:01):
Total 250 seats total.
Two bottles of Chardonnay aweek, two bottles

Mark (41:04):
of Chardonnay.
I mean, that's, like I said, Isell by the glass.
I sell more now, now

Francis (41:07):
since we've become a steakhouse.
Right.

Mark (41:09):
That's, that's you just a little bit.

Francis (41:11):
That's part of it in one of the restaurants, part of
it.

Mark (41:12):
And chardonnay and Italian food is not exactly, you know,
made in heaven either.
But tell the Anton NOI family,

MJ (41:18):
they make the Batard Matrice in Italy, according to James
Suck.

Francis (41:23):
Can't argue with that.

Mark (41:25):
Sorry James.
But that's just, that's justthat It's gone.
It is.
It is gone.
People are drinking other,frankly, I think usually more
interesting.
Not always, you know, there'ssome very chart days in the
world.
Some, uh, but.
People are going and venturinginto different parts of the
world for, for different typesof grapes.
So you said look for a brightspot.

(41:47):
People are looking for theinteresting, they're looking for
the off, the beaten path they'relooking for.
Show me something that maybe hasa little more, uh, value that
I've never heard of before.
And it doesn't have to beinexpensive, but a little more
value for per dollar andsomething i I, I haven't seen
before.

MJ (42:07):
it's like spurring some more exploration.
Sure.
Yeah.

Francis (42:11):
well, look, it's a, it's an economic downturn.
Uh, there's no question that thelegalization of pot throughout
the country in New Jersey has,

MJ (42:17):
there's like three dispensaries that I walked
across down the street.
Yeah.
I somehow didn't go into any ofthem, which is really the
miracle for any listeners athome

Mark (42:24):
since we're doing a wine tasting that are a little bit
grateful.
But the thing about it is, I

MJ (42:28):
have to be on Brilliant though.
Mark.
You have, I'm there.
You guys are shirts and jackets.
I'm gonna wearing a tie dye forthe TA seat, just so

Francis (42:34):
you know.
Dude, you're a winemaker.
You're allowed to do thatanyway.
That's right.
First of all, that's right.
I hope.
I'm hoping there's dirt on yourboots.
Exactly.
I

MJ (42:41):
left the dirty boots at home.
I packed, packed clean shoes inmy back.

Francis (42:44):
Here.
Here, here's the hierarchy,right?
The banker has to wear a bluesuit to work.
I can wear crazy colors and wecan wear crazy colors in our
jacket and tie, and you canwhatever the hell you want.
You're a farmer.
And that's what people want.
Remember, this is the

MJ (42:55):
only job I can

Francis (42:56):
do.
I remember one ti I, I got, Igot a side story.
I remember one Italian importer,and you know who I'm talking
about, who used to have a slightItalian accent, though he spent
a lot of time growing up inEurope.
But he would, his, he affectedhis Italian accent even more and
he would always wear like abandana tied around his, his
neck as if he had just come offthe field.
I'm like, you're staying at theRitz, you know?

(43:20):
Oh, but they, it is so importantto have there.
I'm like, and you were at highschool long.
You had eggs benedict, you hadeggs benedict, and you went to
high school in Long Island andyou went to high school on the
Long Island.
Uh, you know, anyway, marijuanais eating our lunch to a, some
of an extent, right?
And I know Ozempic is eating ourlunch to another extent,
right?

(43:40):
Both of those things are new and fads and, and people
are embracing them right now.
And it's like when a newrestaurant opens in town, new
restaurant opens in town next tous.
We're always happy to see.
It always hurts our business alittle bit for a couple weeks.
Everybody's gonna check it outfor whole period.
And then, but, but then there.
But then we're better for therebeing another great restaurant
in town if it's great.
And if it sucks, it goes awayin, who cares?
We've been selling wine.

(44:00):
Okay?
It's in the Bible, right?
Jesus was a wine maker.
Okay, so we're gonna be fine.
I guess we need ding Jesus too,acting, you know, food.
So, alright.
Um, so we're gonna be fine.
The wine, the wine industry'sgonna be fine.
Uh, there is an interest inwine.
marijuana pot, THC, it's a wayto go home and you have a gummy

(44:22):
and you, and you play videogames and that's fine.
And you don't go out for two orthree drinks in a happy hour
and, and meet other people.
But after a certain period oftime.
THC is a solitary thing thatmakes you temporarily content to
be alone, but your socialnetwork's gonna fall apart.
Okay.
Wine is convivial and communal.
Okay.
And eventually I think thatthat's gonna swing back the

(44:46):
other way because, because partof wine is coming together.
Part of wine is sharing a bottleof wine, having some drinks with
friends, and they're saying thatyoung people, they're finding
out more and more.
I tried to study recently, itsays that people who use pot
now, instead of going to happyhour, they're using pot Monday
through Thursday.
They're using it wrong, is whatsaid.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's Sam sinking.

(45:07):
I'm with you.
You're doing it round.
Yeah, but they, but people, you're supposed to pass
it around, but especially,especially with specialized
marijuana, people using it tosleep, people are using it to
calm and you're like.
it, that can only last so long.
People need each other and whenthey need each other, the bar
are gonna be here.
Wine's gonna be here, cocktailsare gonna be here because we're

(45:28):
convivial.
And they're saying already thatpeople are tending not to use it
on Friday and Saturday nights.
Young people are not using it onFriday and Saturday nights
because it makes them lesssocial.
And that's a last thing we need.
So I, I, I have hope It's,everyone's fascinated with pot.
Everyone's fascinated with theGLP ones.
And that will balance out in theend.
And, and I've been selling minefor 3000 years.

(45:51):
It's not, it's not, it's notdoom.
Well, we may

Mark (45:53):
look at, we haven't been selling mine.

Francis (45:56):
We as a human race have been selling mine for

MJ (45:57):
our genealogy is bad.
Do you think that, part of that,you know, it was just, that
perfect storm of We had covid,you had legalization was falling
all around the country, sopeople were home anyway.
Yeah.
Um, and, and restaurant, youknow, obviously a restaurants
took a hit.
How are you seeing people comingback?
Like what was it like comingback out of Covid for you guys?

(46:18):
Like how I think and how did youstorm

Mark (46:19):
Covid?
So, so what's interesting thereis, so 2023 was our best year
ever.
By far.
It was this big blowout,spectacular year, and then 24
kind of went back to a normalyear.
But all of our, all the expenseswere higher.
Right.
So everything costs more labor,costs more, uh, uh, products

(46:41):
cost more everything costs more,you know, even gas and electric
costs more.
So

MJ (46:46):
lemme just say your wine producers were feeling the exact
same thing in 23 point.
For sure.
Your

Mark (46:50):
models cost more.
Your labels cost more.
We, we get it.
Um, your people to cost moreoil.

MJ (46:57):
There's more reasons than that, but yeah, I know you're
eco-conscious,

Mark (47:01):
but it's expensive.
But so, so 2024 was kind of thisweird, not great year, and then
2025, everything kind of cameback in January, February, and
then somebody uttered the wordtariff the first week of March.
And you can see somebody, andyou can see business is, it's
it, we're going, we're sailingalong, we're getting back up to

(47:24):
those 2023 levels.
And you just see it go likethat.

Francis (47:27):
Literally somebody turned off

Mark (47:28):
a spigot in a, in a, in a minute.

Sam (47:30):
I have a friend who works in a winery.
They, they pressed go on theirwine club the day that the April
7th, the liberation, whateverthe fuck that means.
Liberation Day.
Liberation liberating us fromour 4 0 1 Ks.
Uh, they, they pressed go ontheir like giant wine club
mm-hmm.
On April 7th, and it was justlike, it was a bloodbath.
Yeah.
Everybody was calling andcanceling and just like, you

(47:50):
know, freaking out.
Well,

Francis (47:51):
no, the thing about restaurant look restaurants,
they, I think it was toastedthat published some figures that
said that restaurant reviewswent down.
don't quote me on the numbers,20% or something in, in a one
month year over year in March.
Um, I, I believe that happened.
Here's what didn't happen.
Okay.
It's not like all of a suddeneverybody got fired and nobody
had enough money to go out todinner.

(48:12):
Okay.
That didn't happen.
Right.
What happened was peoplepanicked and they said, hold on
a second.
I'm paralyzed.
I don't look at what happened tomy 4 0 1 KI, let's, let's not go
out to dinner and.
That is a psychological effectat this point.
Totally.
So I don't know what's gonnahappen to the economy going
forward, but nobody does.
And that's why they're scary.

(48:32):
Well, but it's not that peopledon't have enough money to go
out to dinner, that thefundamentals of the market
haven't changed.
It's a panic.
And that can be very temporaryand people are trying to find a
rebalance and I think.
One of the things that happenedwas people drank their faces off
during covid, what the hell elsewas there to do?
And then they were thrilled tobe back out in public, and maybe

(48:52):
they went a little too andtravel and do all those things.
There was natural pullback andthe economy tracked and there's
tariffs.
And so we're in a bit of a, a, avalley, but I, I, I don't think
the fundamentals have changedthat here's,

Mark (49:05):
here's what I'll say as too, as, as the guy who really
studies the numbers of ourbusiness.
Mm-hmm.

Francis (49:11):
Uh, so you see

MJ (49:11):
Francis doesn't do any of

Francis (49:12):
that.

Mark (49:12):
I was the English major.
Okay.
I studied, I'm saying Francisdoesn't do any of that shit.
Yes.
That's exactly what I, I knew.
I say, mark, what's going on?
Tell me about the, he quotes themagazines and then I tell you
what's what.
The actual, uh, that is ahundred percent true.
So, even as early as.
Next week.
So because we we're kind of afine dining restaurant that that
does a lot of advanced booking,does a lot of, uh, things where

(49:35):
we can kind of see in the futurethe advanced bookings for may
look more like February Yeah.
Than they do March and April.
So I, I think you're alreadyseeing people tire of bad news.
Yeah.
Bad, bad news.
Uh, lack of participation.

Francis (49:54):
What, what everybody wants to know is how is this
gonna affect me?
Am I gonna lose my job?
Is my 401k gonna go to 20% ofits value?
And so people hit the pausebutton, but two things happen.
One is you start to get moreconfident when you see the world
hasn't totally exploded and youget thirsty.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Hit the pause button.
Like, I need to go out for adrink.

Sam (50:13):
You know, and there's something to be said about just
like in the first administrationof this guy who did the tariffs,
whatever his name is, uh.
I think people drink a lot,drank more.
That was what we saw in, I thinkit was like, what?
You get home, there's terriblenews.
You're gonna, you know, nowmaybe it's a gummy, but I think
it's a gummy and a glass ofwine.
Yeah.
That's all I'm dealing with.

Mark (50:32):
You know, I like, I like Francis was talking about, so
2023 being the anomalous year,let's look at that as the
anomalous year.
he got a lot of people addictedto their phones.
I mean, there's this faction ofpeople who really don't, are
antisocial, don't want to besocial human beings.
They, they, it became okay,became accepted for them to do
that.
They didn't have to go to work.

(50:52):
You didn't have to do, you don'thave to do a lot of things.
So there's a, a cadre of the,the population that I think is
embracing not going out.
Mm-hmm.
But most of the people that weknow and we talk about are on
out at the very worst, on thefringe of that.
Most of them are outside of thatand do want to go back out and

(51:15):
do, and will wanna be with otherpeople and will wanna be, be
sharing cocktails at the bar.
The, the other thing we'venoticed, uh, is people prefer
it.
Like if we're gonna have a slownight, if we close one of the
rooms and.
Put people closer togethermm-hmm.

(51:36):
Than if we spread everybody outover the, over the, the giant
dining room.
Yeah.
Course people wanna together.
Yeah.
People wanna be in a room.
People wanna be, feel the e ina, in an energetic place.

Francis (51:46):
Yeah.
And tonight we're gonna have thewine tasting we're doing with
you,

MJ (51:49):
which I'm

Francis (51:49):
stoked about with your wonderful wines.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Um, that, and this is bringingnew things to people.

MJ (51:59):
We gotta, we gotta ding, we gotta ding your dad, man.
We dinging them all around.
D ding, dinging.
These are nice glasses you guyshave in

Francis (52:08):
chances.
Robinson Glasses,

MJ (52:10):
So tell people about what, what we are drinking here.
Yeah.
Tell us think.
This might be one of the firstin the wild.
Placements of this wine.
Uh, this is the, this is a newlabel from us.
I haven't even talked about iton the show much.
Uh, Enrico Valenti, that's myshow.
I I, you know, too, love it toobusy selling other people's
shit.

(52:30):
I, um, so this is, this is ourlike, you know, 16, 600 was
always the single vineyard winesthings that we've farmed, you
know, trying to focus on thatsense of place.
And the same sort of likeweirdness of the world.
23 and 24.
We had lots of extra grapes, youknow, some stuff that wasn't
sold and we didn't want it tohit the floor, you know, rod on
the vine.

(52:51):
So we, we brought it in.
We brought in a ton ofZinfandel, a ton of Grenache,
and prior to that, everyvintage, uh, Isabel Gosier, we
ding that one.
Uh, Isabel Gosier from DomainGosier, he was worked with my
dad for, in the vineyards for afew years, is our consulting
wine maker.
Every time she would come and doa blending session, you know,
we'd put her in the lab, she'dcome out like three days later,

(53:11):
her hair's all over the place,and, and she would present
something to me that was aGrenache Zinfandel blend.
And every time I'd be like, Ilove this, but it doesn't, I
don't have a place for it.
It doesn't fit in any of the,you know, sort of like, you
know, 16, 600 brand.
So when she did it this year, oryou know, that not fit your
brand, Sam, it just, well'causewe didn't, it just like, I

(53:34):
couldn't wrap my head around it.
I couldn't wrap my head aroundlike how we're gonna sell a zin
grenache blend.
Um, but thank you for the ding.
Yeah, there we go.
You know Isabel's also hangingout with she, that project she
was hanging out with Philipperight In the downstream and
Philipp that I saw magma, thatshit.
You're talking

Francis (53:52):
to Philipp Melka.

MJ (53:53):
No.
Come beat Comb beat.
Come be okay.
Come beat.
And he did the downstreamproject with, um, Justin Smith.
Justin Smith, Saxo, and, and,uh, Sasha Ang and, uh, he won me
studio.

Mark (54:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You've been digging me all day.

MJ (54:10):
Four guys with podcasts get together in the hotel room and
this, and interrupt each otherthe entire time.
Perfect.
I think it's been actually verygood.
Yeah, I think so too.
But, um, I can't believe yousaid you couldn't wrap your head
around, that's all.
No, I just, I didn't, I couldn'tfigure out where I went and, uh,
but in this world of like,people being afraid of buying
expensive things or, and wantingto reach younger, more diverse,

(54:33):
uh, customers, we, you know.
Built this new brand, EnricoValentine.
It's my middle name, mybrother's middle name.
It is also ev, which is ourvineyard management company,
enterprise Vineyards.
And it's ecological viticulture,which is what we've an electric
vehicle.
Electric vehicle.

Francis (54:48):
we love the wine.
Thank you.
And by the way, you said this isthe first time around the wild.
We first, uh, had this, you cameto my apartment.
Yeah.
Showing me these one.
But

MJ (54:55):
I love that experience of going to taste at your, you
know, you like go up theelevator, you walk into this
guy's apartment and it's like 10in the morning.
You're like, all right, what'sgoing

Mark (55:03):
happen?
And it, I don't think it, yeah,no.
It's says the way Francis liveshis

MJ (55:07):
life.
No, it's a, it's a beautiful,beautiful flat in Jersey City.

Francis (55:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, the thing is just for yourlisteners, I, I live in Jersey
City, which is in North Jerseyand it mass transit connected to
New York.
So if someone's out in New York,it's super easy to say, Hey,
swing by my, my place in themorning.
Totally.
You do it by mass transit.
Then in the afternoon, right?
It's five blocks

Mark (55:27):
from

Francis (55:27):
the Pat

Mark (55:27):
station.
Yeah.

Francis (55:28):
So I'm in New Brunswick in the afternoon, which is the
middle of New Jersey.
So if people wanna meet with me,I give'em the option of saying,
you meet me at my house in themorning or at the restaurant in
the afternoon.
So you came to my home.
Yeah.
And you poured this for me

MJ (55:39):
and been bottled for like two weeks by the, by the

Francis (55:41):
way.
And I was blown away by it.
I was blown away by all yourwines, which is why we asked you
to do this tasting.
But, uh, the wine's outrageousen Rico Valentine, it's
tremendous, uh, stays off wineshop.com.
If you're a New Jersey, you findthis wine, there is a place to
buy it.

MJ (55:56):
We actually, we, and you can buy it from you.
You can't buy it from me rightnow.
Even.
I gotta get this shit on thewebsite.

Francis (56:00):
I told to stay off Turner.
Catherine, the party, havedinner.
Get a nice bottle at RicoValentine.
But no, but it, it really iswonderful.
But you have something on yourlabel here that I, we think is,
we, we spend a lot of time inthe restaurant guys talking
about, and in our lives,livings.
You talk about it beingregenerative.
Talk to us about regenerativeagriculture in this won

MJ (56:16):
Well baseline is, sustainable is not right.
You know, if you're calling,what you're doing is
sustainable.
What we're doing as a.
Planet is not sustainable.
Right?
That's right.
Sustainable now is just, it'sstaining downward.
You're going down, down, we'regoing, we're going up or down.
So, and this is, um, it comesfrom this basic philosophy that,
um, if you're putting more backinto the soil than you're taking

(56:41):
out, what ends up in the bottleand in the glass is, is gonna
taste better.
Yeah, no, I see.
And it's just, I mean, it's,it's as simple as that.
And then, you know, you alsorealize that like as farmers.
We have the power and theresponsibility to farm
regeneratively to, to take morecarbon out of the air and put it
into the ground than we're putgoing the other direction, which

Mark (57:02):
good farming does.
Uh, you know, I'm gonna, I'mgonna plug our show just for a
minute.
Yes.

MJ (57:06):
We just posted, we're, we're in the plug section of that epi
episode Relief,

Mark (57:09):
which we posted a show with a guy by the name of Peter
Bick who did, uh, documentarycalled Roots So Deep about
regenerative cattle farming.
His, his YouTube channel is, uh,carbon Cowboys.
Oh,

MJ (57:18):
yeah, I've been to a talk that he did.
Super, super

Francis (57:21):
interesting guy.
Well, he's talking about it withcattle farming.
Yeah, you're talking about itwith viticulture.
And we interviewed him on ourshow and we're like, you know,
there are, there are winemakersthat do this with viticulture as
well.
And it's, it's, it's basically,not only is it good to take
carbon out of the atmosphere,but the soil needs that carbon.
Right.
So it's good to put it back intothe soil.
It makes

MJ (57:39):
the machine you're growing better.

Mark (57:40):
Well, you're, you're actually growing top soil,
which, for farming in the UnitedStates for the last 50 years.
We've been pulling out of thetop soil, we've been reducing
the amount, blowing it

Francis (57:49):
away, washing it away.

Mark (57:51):
S

MJ (57:52):
bowl, the Central Valley has sunk like 18 inches in the last
50 years.
Really?

Francis (57:56):
The Central Valley,

MJ (57:56):
central Valley, California is 18 inches lower in elevation.
18 inches of top soil let's 18.
And, and also, aquifercollapsed.
Oh, yeah.
Peeling water out and yeah.

Mark (58:05):
Wow.
We're doing it wrong.

MJ (58:07):
Well, most of them, some of usare doing it right.
And you know, as

Mark (58:12):
a

MJ (58:12):
planet

Mark (58:13):
on the whole,

Francis (58:13):
as a planet.

Mark (58:14):
Yeah, exactly.

Francis (58:14):
Well, I want, I want to give you kudos for doing this
and for putting the wordregenerative on your label to
kind of raise awareness aboutthis.
I think grape farmers, qualitygrape farmers are, are the most
important, farmers in the world.
Here's why.
There's a lot of reasons whypeople, I'll go ahead and ding
now.
Do it real quick.
Well ding.
Ready?
All right, so, but here's, buthere's, here's what I mean.

(58:35):
You're, you're not feeding theplanet.
Look, it's important to peoplewho have vegetables and the
wheat and everything.
but.
Grape farmers are on the cuttingedge and have always been on the
cutting edge of sustainableagriculture.
because grape vines don't movenumber one, right?
So your vine is there for ahundred years.
So if you make choices today,
right,
that benefit you for two or three years, but that

(58:56):
cost you four or five years fromnow, you'll get the benefit, but
you'll also pay the price wherethe soybean farmer will just go
plant someplace else.
Right?
And the other thing is, there isno agricultural product in the
world as closely examined aswine grapes, right?
Nobody has.
You know, banana juice thatcosts a hundred dollars a
bottle.
Nobody ages their banana juicefrom this different vineyard.

(59:16):
By the way, have you have acarrot O beef?
Oh, rise.
So like we're gonna, but nobody,nobody a little qualitative.
Uh, but, but nobody auctionsbanana juice or looks at how the
banana juice ages over time orsees how the banana juice in
this vineyard is changingrelative to that vineyard and
then says, wait a second.
Let's, let's figure out whatwe're doing agriculturally wrong

(59:38):
'cause we're gonna fuck up NapaValley.
Um, and so.
It's an economic incentive.
I'm not saying you guys are themost noble people in the world,
but there's an economicincentive to look at more
closely at fine wine viticulturethan any other aspect of
farming.

Mark (59:54):
So basically what're Francis is saying, you guys are
just selfish.

Francis (59:57):
That's, yeah, well, but that's,

Mark (59:58):
We're in it for the wine.
Let's, the fact he hasn't toldyou is Steve's left is actually
an inch higher than it was whenit, when we,

Francis (01:00:06):
but like this, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a huge
analogy, but like the spaceprogram.
You guys figure out shit to howto make more wonderful,
expensive wine that then potatofarmers use.
how to make their land betterand not poison the soil, and not
have to have farmers wear spacesuits when a guy's working the
field of your food wearing aspace suit, don't eat that food.

(01:00:27):
Yeah.
You know, figure something out,other way out.
You're a
wine astronaut.
I think you're, oh,

MJ (01:00:31):
I've been to space that's for sure.
Longer than Ka Perry.
Definitely.

Francis (01:00:36):
We're back to the marijuana.
We,

MJ (01:00:39):
marijuana plus, uh, no, but I, to your point, I think that,
um.
What I've seen from both my dadand my uncle with Curi winery
and, and then, you know, theshift to biodynamics 25 years
ago and, and now intoregenerative is, is wine because
of its cultural prominence,because of that spotlight on it.
And, and, you know, thesetreasured bottles has the

(01:01:01):
opportunity to take thesefarming methods and, and put'em
on a p and put a, a spotlight on'em.
Yeah.
So that, you know.
You know, when my dad and myuncle launched Cherry Winery in
1979, nobody knew what, whatorganic meant.
Right.
And, and you know, and when theBenziger converted everything to
deter certified biodynamics in99, nobody knew what biodynamic

(01:01:22):
meant.
And now you can go to Walmartand buy biodynamic lettuce.

Francis (01:01:26):
Yeah.
But, and, and one of the reasonsis because the guy who's growing
lettuce doesn't have the marginright.
To be able to say, let'sexperiment with this other kind
of agriculture.
And if you're selling$20 bottleof wine or a hundred dollars
bottle of wine, you're, you havethe, the wherewithal to make
agricultural experiments.
So finds a better way the guygrowing potatoes to go for a
better way.
The guy growing potatoes on LongIsland simply doesn't have that

(01:01:48):
ability.
But if, if wine makers and, and,and viticulturists come up with
new ways of doing things, thepotato farmer, we, you know, you
don't patent that thing.
Farmers share their informationand, and that's why I think that
there's a great social utilityto even expensive wine that
benefits everybody.

Sam (01:02:06):
Well, I'm gonna take this moment to plug an event that
we're doing in August.
Yeah.
Uh, Morgan Peterson and I, and,and Katie Buno and I have teamed
up and we're doing a tasting inSan Francisco, uh, August 17th.
We're calling it Sorbet SonomaOrganic, regenerative,
biodynamic educational tasting.
We had to come up withsomething.
and it is only wines from SonomaValley and only from vineyards

(01:02:28):
that are farmed, you know,organic, regenerative or
biodynamic.
And what we've found in doingthis, there's, there's about
13,000 acres of planted vineyardin Sonoma Valley, and I.
Probably 2,500 or more acres ofSonoma Valley qualify for this
tasting, putting this at like20% of the Appalachian, which if
you look across the planet, hardto press to find an Appalachian

(01:02:50):
that has 20% of that kind of,you know, that that level of
farming.
So I'm sure he can tell you thatif you understand economics,
that falls right into PATOSprinciple 80 20.
So that actually, yeah, 80 20,it actually, it actually makes
sense.
I'm gonna have to

Francis (01:03:01):
go back to econ one.
Oh, whatever.
20% of the people doing almostall the work.
Exactly.
80% of the people, you know?
Yep.
Totally.
Yep.
That totally tracks the, thetotally tracks.

MJ (01:03:11):
But, and, and the point is so that we can.

Francis (01:03:13):
This gonna be lectures, this gonna be discussion.
This is just,

Sam (01:03:16):
just walk around tasting first, you know, first time out
of the gate.
You know, the goal is to, to broit and no, no, PA I I and I love
a panel, you know, I love apanel.
I love talk on a panel, moderatea panel.
I love a panel.
I push, you can't take 45minutes panel.
I push for panel, moderate it.
I push for a panel.
You know, you got, you gotM-T-P-M-W there.

(01:03:37):
You, you defer When, when hesays defer.
Love you Morgan.
Uh, hey Morgan.
I've known Morgan since I wasMorgan.
And, and I and, uh, dingingDavid and Joel bring back
Ravenswood.
So much good stuff.
I mean, how did, I mean, how doyou guys feel about that?
I mean, Ravenswood was the shitin the nineties, right?
Okay.

Francis (01:03:54):
I gotta tell you.
Couldn't gut, I gotta tell you astory about Ravenswood.
I was, Kevin Zare was my mentorin, in the wine world.
That's

MJ (01:04:03):
just obviously gotta break shit.
But I mean, because it,

Francis (01:04:05):
so

MJ (01:04:05):
we're all here because it's Kevin's rally

Francis (01:04:07):
pretty.
We're all right.
Exactly.
He, so Kevin was selling masterat Windows in the World.
I was working at a restaurantcalled The Frying Peach, where
he eventually worked, worked forthe last three years before 19
seven.
I took this class with a mutualfriend of ours, a guy named
Scott for our big shout out toScott in South Carolina.
Um, he was the manager of theplace and he said, you gotta

(01:04:27):
take Kevin's Israeli's course ifyou wanna learn about wine.
And I'm, you know, it's a newfield then the, the, the world
of wine was one third as big asit is today.
And, uh, I took Kevin's classand I went up to him in my one
suit and I was like, oh, Fred toScott Aurora then Whoa, whoa,
whoa.
And I was 24, 23, 24 years old.

(01:04:47):
Yeah, probably 23 years.
And, uh, Kevin was like, oh,well you're a Fred of Scott's,
you must be an asshole.
You, it was, it was, we werefriends immediately.
Right.
And so he would always call me aclass of 300 people at Windows
in the world.
And I spoke to him after everyclass and I said, well, and he,
he took me under his wing andhe, um.
He, where we, where did I startwith this discussion?
Where did I come from with this?

(01:05:08):
Where were we?
Raymond.
Oh, Ravenwood.
Yeah.
So Kevin sent me with letters ofintroduction to California.
He said, you gotta go there now.
If you wanna learn about one,you gotta go.
And then I eventually did thesame thing in Europe, but I go
to California and I've got, uh,uh, uh, introduction to,

MJ (01:05:22):
and this is not J seven, there's no email.
No.

Francis (01:05:24):
Right.
There's no email.
There's fax

MJ (01:05:26):
receipts, but they're expensive.
Yeah.
Right.
So he, he's got a letter.

Francis (01:05:30):
So he, so he goes and he sends, he sends Peter to
Ravenswood and it's, it's asmall wire.
Back then it was before theysold, it was time.
And they're, was

MJ (01:05:37):
it up on Rey though, or Yeah.

Francis (01:05:39):
Yeah.
And it get the bend in the road.
And then, and so I go in and Igo in and I, I, I meet Joel and,
and he's like, oh, you're afriend of Kevin's.
Okay, whatever.
And he is, and he doesn't stopfor a moment.
He is working in the winery orwhatever, and he says, um, you
wanna punch down the cap?
And I'm like, hu down.
I'm like, sure.
He is like, okay.
So you go up and I'm on top ofthis open, top thing, right?

(01:06:00):
Like redwood fermentor, openwood, top wood fermentor, open
top wood fermentor.
And he's like, here's theladder.
I'm like, ladder, okay, ladder,right.
I go open the ladder.
He's like, now crawl out on the,between these two planks, he
hast crawl and he is got, hegives me two by four and he's
like, so you punch down in thecap and I'm punched.
So the cap is the crest thatforms on the top of the, of the
winery and you basically punchit down to break it so it

(01:06:22):
doesn't form.
No, no.
They may not.
I'm
telling.
Yeah, we appreciate that.
So, so going.
I figure that, you know, butthat be, I mean this big open
top wood fermentor and I got atwo way four and I'm punching
down the cap and um, I'm sure hedoesn't remember.
I saw him years later, remember?
And I'm punching down the capand he says, um.

(01:06:42):
So a crust of the, uh, skins andsoft forms on the top that if
you leave it, it'll form a hardcrust and then it will seal in
all the heat and all the CO2 andruin the wine.
So you gotta punch it down andbreak it up and macerate that
stuff back in.
I, I punch it down and he says.
Francis, he's known me for 15minutes.
He's like, just be careful upthere because you know, the

(01:07:04):
number one source of fatalitiesin wineries is when people are
overwhelmed by CO2 when they'repunching down the tap.
So if you begin to feellightheaded, let me know.
I'm like, okay.

MJ (01:07:15):
I was laid that about, I got here.

Francis (01:07:17):
Anyway, that was a formative.
I didn't know it was sodangerous to make wine, but it
was, uh, no.
We've

MJ (01:07:22):
mixed many of those, uh, dangers.
Yeah.
Fred Plunged in the last 40years.
Not all of them, but with someof them.

Mark (01:07:29):
About a minute later, Francis is like, I'm done.
Where's
the tasting wine part that's youcame for?
That was amazing.

MJ (01:07:36):
shout out to Joel.
Shout out.
Shout out to Joel.
Um, we're, it's like 5 55, Iremember which time.
Yeah.
We gotta go do a, we do winetake.
So, um, let's do some quick wrapup real quick.
I'll ask both of you, what areyou most excited about for the
future?
Wow.
Jet packs.

(01:07:57):
We should have had those sins already.
Man.

Francis (01:08:01):
Oh, you go first, mark.
I did.
He wants jet packs.
Jet pack.

MJ (01:08:04):
Fair enough.

Francis (01:08:05):
I don't know.
I, I'm excited for when the dustsettles.
I really am.
You know, we, we've been aroundfor almost 33 years.
Another two months will be 33years.
Uh, the crash of oh eight, uh,September 11th.
COVID and, um, those are thingswe built the thanks and we have
225 seat restaurants, but we'repart of this community and

(01:08:28):
there's huge shoutouts in NewBrunswick and New Brunswick's,
kind of the downtown of all thesurrounding towns as well.
Uh.
It's, it's a little rough rightnow, but we're here and, and our
friends still come to therestaurant.
We're still an important part ofpeople's lives.
And, uh, I'm looking forward toeverybody, to, to us getting to
a point where it's a little calmagain and people have less

(01:08:48):
stress.
But you know what we're here forwhen you have stress.
We're here for when you don'tour stress.
I'm, I'm looking forward tocontinuing to see the rise of
New Brunswick and therestaurants that we at.
Oh, and the restaurant guys.
I'm, I'm, we're super excited atthe how quickly the restaurant
guys are, are growing, andthat's amazing to

Mark (01:09:07):
us.
So, so real answer to yourquestion, uh, I don't spend a
ton of time thinking about.
When will my life be greatagain?
Okay.
That was great.
Yeah,
I'm, I'm super fortunate guy.
He's a super fortunate guy.
I do a job that I love.
I go to work every day in a, ina place that I love.

(01:09:27):
We, I just did the math'causelike it's already told your
stats major.
We have each spent over ahundred thousand hours in that
building across the street.

MJ (01:09:35):
Wow.

Mark (01:09:36):
I still love going to work every day.
I still, when I'm driving towork, I'm thinking about, oh,
I'm gonna, what am I doingtoday?
What fun thing is on my andbecause that's our spot, right?
When we're planning winetastings and things like that,
we plan things to be honest,that are fun for us.
Yeah.
Right.

(01:09:56):
the mind space is.
It's something we want to do.
It's something they'll want todo.
Yeah.
And so that's, so that's thebeginning of it.
But listen, I could have, hecould have made more money.
We could have owned 25restaurants around the state or
around the country.
I love being in my space.
Yeah.

(01:10:16):
Knowing the names of 80% of thepeople who walk in the door,
introducing new people to whatwe do and how we do it.
I love it.
It's, I have a great life.
I don't need to look forward.
I get to enjoy what I'm doingright now.

Francis (01:10:28):
Well, and to be honest, we, we get to be in so many
different communities.
You

Mark (01:10:32):
know what?
I'm looking forward to havingthe last word Never gonna,
sometimes

Francis (01:10:35):
never gonna happen.
What was it?
You called me that one time.
Is it Yon?
Is that what you on?
That's, I'm a
That's Italian.
I know,
but honestly, I just wanna, I'm wanna filter this
back on you guys.
We, the podcast is reallyimportant to us.
Yeah.
We want to have it besuccessful.

(01:10:56):
We love that we're on stage infront of hundreds of people on
the pay to come see us and, andhow the two, the businesses
interact.
But honestly.
We get to have conversationslike this with people like you.
And this is your podcast andthanks for having us on it.
And, but because of therestaurant business, we got to
meet you because of time.
We get to do this togetherbecause we got invited on your
podcast.
This is awesome.

(01:11:16):
This is our life.
This is the life we were meantto.
I And food people are fun.
Yeah, we're fun.

MJ (01:11:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've, I've been saying thisthing lately since, um, we were
at the DTC conference.
Yep.
And, and it occurred to be, youknow, d TC is obviously our
business as much as we lovedoing wholesale and working with
dtc director, director,consumer.
Oh
yeah.
Which is, you know, I'm againstthat.
Yeah, of course.
Okay.
And, and just, just in Thankyou, Tony.
But it, it's occurred to me lately, and I think this is the

(01:11:42):
business that you guys are intoo.
It's not direct to consumer.
It's direct to community.
Yeah.
And, and being a part ofsomething that helps.
Build a community and is a partof the community like, like your
restaurants are, and, and likethe podcast is that, and there
becomes a community that's,that's nationwide and, and
global.
Um, so that's, that's, if I'mthinking about it, it's, it's
how we continue to, to do that,you know, DT to community.

Francis (01:12:06):
I think that's a great thing nationwide.
And I think you also, and I knowyou are supporting us in getting
to consumers as well, and, andwe talk about this a lot with
people like George Henry and allthese other folks that we deal
with.

MJ (01:12:17):
I know George Henry on a sweet tip,

Francis (01:12:20):
but what, what do we bring as retailers and
restaurateurs to, we have GeorgeHenry come in for dinner, we
have you come in for dinner.
Obviously what I want, I don'twanna do this dinner, so people
buy direct from you for the next10 years.
I wanna introduce people to you.
So they buy through me.
And what generally winds uphappening is we, I.

(01:12:41):
Are able to deliver somethingwithout it being sent in the
mail that are for basically thesame prices that they bought
from you.
Right?
So when you have somebody likeus in, in the community, that's
an advocate, I just wanna bepart of that community.
I wanna add to that community.
And I think that, you know, whenyou're in the middle of
Minnesota and there's nobodyaround you that can represent
your wines, you don't have thebenefit of us.

(01:13:01):
But I hope that we have a valueadd to the people who wanna buy
wines directly from you ifthey're in New Jersey, you know,
if they're around us.
it all can work together.
It's,

MJ (01:13:10):
it's definitely a, a symbiotic thing.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
You know, that's why, you know,we could, we could survive only
doing DTC.
Right?
But it's not as, it's not as.
Exciting.
It's not as fun.
Sure.
It's not as interesting to, youknow, you get out here and come
and I'm so, and meet new peopleand you're deadheads you need
people.
Right.
We need people.
And, but that's the, theoriginal DTC band.

(01:13:31):
Yeah.
Right.
It was, it was direct to thecommunity.
It was, it was not about, it wasnot about, selling records and
it was about getting the peopletogether.
Um, so anytime that I can do,that's what, you know, I love to
come out and do a tasting likethat anytime you get the
community together.
Yep.
Great.
Um, you're doing the job.
Yeah.
So we've been doing some plugs,but guys, one more time before
we go.
Tell people where they can findyou, how they can be a part of
what you're doing.

Francis (01:13:51):
Restaurants in New Brunswick, New Jersey.
If you're gonna be in town,stage left.com or Catherine
Lombardi with a c.com, thepodcast.
Please check us out atrestaurant guys podcast.com.
You can find us at any pod catchor thereabouts.
Come, come visit us anytime.
Ask for Mark and Francis.
We're really on the floor of ourrestaurants most nights, and if
we're.
Not on the floor.
We might be in the otherrestaurant or down the office or

(01:14:13):
in the shop, but we're usuallyaround.
And if you've heard of us fromthis podcast, we'd actually love
to speak to you in person.

MJ (01:14:19):
Sam, what do you wanna say?
I, I wanna give Mark the lastword and have that great intro
that he said before we startedrecording the, the restaurant
guys intro as the closer forthis.
Okay.
So then I'll do drama, do mything to Mark.
So for all the listeners, makesure you check out the show
notes for this episode.
I'll put links to their podcastand links to 16 600 and links
to, the winemakers pod as Ialways do.
But we're gonna let this one inwith some real podcasters.

(01:14:42):
Oh, not some amateurs go, geez.
He gonna mark bring his home.

Mark (01:14:46):
Gotcha.
He got

MJ (01:14:47):
his own mic.

Mark (01:14:48):
Well, hello everybody and thank you.
We are the restaurant guys.
I'm Mark Pascal, and this isFrancis Shot.
together we own Stage Left andCapital Lombardi restaurants in
New Brunswick, New Jersey.
We're here to bring you theinside track on food, wine, and
the finer things in life.
That's great.
We're up.
That we're out.

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