June 26, 2025 • 40 mins
Mobile wallets now power 73 % of APAC e-commerce checkouts, same-day shipping prices hit record lows, and Australia’s Country Road Group faces a 93 % profit plunge. In this Five Things Friday episode, Alex (The Retail Podcast) joins Ryf Quail (Managing Director, NRF APAC) and Laura Doonin (Retail & Digital-Tech Advisor) to unpack:
Mobile Wallet vs. Credit Card Shift – QR pay, A2A rails, WeChat Pay, Alipay, UPI, DuitNow
Same-Day Delivery Economics – Shippit 2025 data, ship-from-store strategy, endless-aisle logistics
Post-Purchase Community – Need It For Tonight, Cutter & Squidge, WhatsApp touch-points, handwritten notes
Country Road Group Reset – Sales -14 %, profit -93 %, new CEO Steven Cook, legacy brand revival
Event ROI Blueprint – Path-to-conference plan, vendor vetting, tender fast-tracking
🔑 Keywords: APAC retail trends, mobile wallet adoption, QR payments, same-day delivery cost, ship-from-store, post-purchase loyalty, Country Road turnaround, retail conference strategy, Five Things Friday.
Listen for 45 minutes of zero-fluff insights you can apply before quarter-end—and follow the show so you never miss a Friday download!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
I was clap at the beginning of the episodes.
I noticed I'm always editing myself going hello, hello,
hello. Welcome back to five things
Friday AIPAC edition. Now I'm in a hotel room.
It's 5:00 AM in the morning in London and I'm privileged to be
joined by my fabulous Co host inSydney, Australia.
(00:23):
Good morning. Oh sorry.
Good afternoon, Laura and Reef. Good afternoon.
Good morning, Alex. Good morning, good afternoon.
Hi copy is here. Listen, one thing I noticed from
last and I always take this for granted.
So the the fantastic YouTube numbers are in for June and we
were at 45,000 views across the retail podcast and five things
(00:48):
Friday for for June. So super, super happy really to
get that notification. It's I posted it on LinkedIn
because I was like, Lily, peopleare listening to it above my
mom. But one thing I noticed on all
the shows, I really take for granted that our little
community sort of always turns up and knows who we are.
(01:11):
So I know last week we just sortof dove into it.
And when it's a hey, I'm, you know, like I'm Alex, I help
businesses stay relevant and be thought leaders in retail.
That's how we commercialise the retail podcast.
That's what I do and that's whatpays my my wage.
But I was wondering if you guys can just give a quick little one
(01:32):
line and then we'll jump into five things Friday.
What's top of mind for you? Is that OK?
Oh. I think so.
Laura. Laura, you can go first.
How about that? Yeah.
So IA consultant I've came from,I've came from tech, I've came
from retail and I have most recently just left an agency
(01:52):
working with a lot of brands andthat kind of Shopify by commerce
ecosystem and now out in my own and I work directly with the
C-Suite and boards to help them do digital transformation
projects. So that's.
And you're world famous because I remember meeting people in
Singapore. They were like, oh, Laura.
Yeah, yeah, we work around. They were like some tech
startup. But anyway, world famous Laura.
(02:15):
Thank you. We're very, we're quite self
deprecating the Scots. But yeah, I I get around.
Take it, Laura. Take it.
Take it. Thank you Hi, I'm Reef and we
probably know me already, but that's OK I started my career as
a digital person so launched banking for Internet banking or
Internet banking for a bank be an agency been marketing
(02:39):
director and and sort of fell onmy way into events and found it
was a lot more fun to work on the industry rather than in the
industry for for my personality type.
I love the people around it. So what's been great for me is
that I actually in my current role at running in a ref APEC is
that I have, I see everything, you know, So I'm seeing so much
(03:01):
stuff, which is just so rewarding.
And so I can stay close to how everything's progressing and,
and be an observer and sometimesbe an advisor, but just be part
of be really at the front of what's happening in retail
around the region. Well.
It's a, it's a privilege to haveboth of you with me.
I think it's a it's a really, I think it's unique.
(03:23):
I've got to be honest, I listen to a lot of podcasts.
There's a there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff out
there. It's really.
But anyway, let's get straight into it.
Reef, since we're on you, why don't you give us your first one
and then we'll go to you. Laura Cool.
Yeah, OK, cool. So the for me, the first one
this week is, is going to centrearound payments.
Payments for me as an Australiangoing up into Asia and spending
(03:43):
lots of time up there was a realrevelation.
In Western countries, we're all so used to credit cards.
Well, it's just the core of how we pay.
And when you go up into Asia, you know, credit cards are
really dwarfed by other mechanisms.
Like, you know, Asia say it's about 15% credit card payments.
(04:07):
We're talking what we're seeing now in some markets,
particularly Indonesia and Malaysia.
But in that, in that, in that Asian region, 73% of e-commerce
payments are through mobile wallets, right?
That's staggering. The Malaysian government a
little while back, basically, hesaid, we want to make sure all
(04:29):
payments are digital. So therefore, we're going to
endorse 5 mobile wallets. And if you start using them, Joe
Punter, we'll put $20 US in it so you can actually use it.
So a lot of the retailers had a strategy of just absorbing that
$20 as quickly as the governmentdoled it out.
But the point is that it's changed behaviour.
The other thing that's really happening in the in the region
(04:50):
is, and every one of the Asian markets have QR code payments.
So you go in. So you you would have seen it in
WeChat and Alipay where you scanAQR code and it draws money out
of the account associated with that application.
But Singapore has its own application, you know, India has
(05:10):
UPI, Indonesia has its own network and QR system, which is
QQRIS. So there's so many of them in
the region. So QR code is payment has become
really, really prevalent. I mean, N Asia, particularly
with China with WeChat and Alipay, you know, it's just
call, you can't, you can't pay with a credit card in Beijing,
except at a Western hotel. Everything else you have to pay
(05:33):
via either WeChat or Alipay and you have to be loaded up before
you even get in in country. Then the last thing that's
really happening, it's really starting to explode in the
region is what we call A to a payment platform and A to a is
account to account. And looking at payments
referencing or just doing some research in the other day,
(05:55):
reckon real time payments by account to account networks, say
particularly India, China, Thailand and and wider Asia,
Southeast Asian region, we'll hit 563 billion by 2027.
So what does that mean? It means that we're actually not
seeing, we're seeing a situationwhere banks that people are
paying from bank to bank rather than through other
(06:17):
intermediaries. And what that means is, you
know, when you're doing those type of things where we're
seeing that that'll explode digital commerce.
But by by taking those, using those tools, you can, you can
overcome some of the basic issues around fraud and
cybersecurity because you're not, you're no longer paying
(06:37):
through intermediaries, You're actually, you're actually paying
for one to another. So there's, there's lots of big
pluses. And these are, these are things
that as Westerners we're not familiar with, but it's core
commonplace behaviour in those markets.
So it is. So, so just to quickly come in
on that, we in Europe, the form banks across Portugal, Spain and
(06:59):
Italy signed an agreement, it's called Bizu Biz, which basically
bought account to account payments to something like 300.
And no, no, no, no, no, something like 120 million
consumers can cross-border and obviously in country do account
to account payments. And what the fascinate I, I used
(07:20):
to always be like one of those people that looked down on
account to account payments because who would use that?
Why would you use that? And then all of a sudden in my
own daily life, I notice I'm paying for the piano teacher,
I'm paying for like different little things.
And then Iberia or the airline companies are now accepting
payments from account to account.
(07:40):
And I think it's such a sort of growth area.
So it I mean, it's something that is because it all needs
like sort of a Federated networkfor the banks to agree to, to do
this with each other. But I think for regions, I can
just see that expanding out fromcountry to country and that's
quite interesting. And the reason this has come to
(08:01):
light for me, I mean, obviously I see it in all the retailers,
but one of the things that really sort of came home to me
was the fact that we'd be on site at our show and sell, tick
selling tickets on day one of the show.
And credit cards are not important.
You know, being able to pay account to account payments is
(08:23):
how people are paying their tickets on Friday.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. People don't have corporate
credit cards. It's not like living in the US,
right? So we have to have all these
other mechanisms to take payments to because people can
buy a ticket because they haven't got a credit card.
So, you know, that sort of things.
Really interesting. So, you know, and so you're
thinking as a retailer coming upinto the region I thought I
(08:44):
talked about the other week withthe the marketplaces, the
ability to present the payment option that the consumer wants
for the market they're in is something that the marketplaces
do very well as an example. Yeah.
It's it's also like, you know, even like, you know, is it it's
not so popular in Australia, butis it like Ven is it Venmo?
(09:05):
Is that what they call it? It's like there's a lot in
Africa. No, it's really popular for that
peer-to-peer payment. You're out for dinner, you use
Venmo. So it's China as well.
I think it is coming more like it's been driven by Asia, but it
is starting to penetrate other markets and it's more driven by
that peer-to-peer payment side and probably reef.
(09:27):
One of the things I remember andyou know, I'm happy admit, admit
when I'm wrong, but I haven't been that wrong many times in
the e-commerce like landscape ofI've been able to really get
good at predicting what tech will work.
But I remember at an I media event years and years ago and
they were talking about QR codesand I was like, this is absolute
(09:51):
not this is BS. Like it's not going to be a
thing. And QR codes are, you know,
really, really important. They're everywhere from I know
they're everywhere from paymentsto finding out more information
and the product and the IO everything.
So yeah, QR codes is an interesting 1.
So probably I. Think COVID helped with that.
(10:13):
Yeah, I think so too. It created a behaviour that
we've never seen before, you know?
Yeah, I mean just a blow my own try.
I for Tesco's, I built a store of the future in 2013 and that
was all about QR code checking, QR code checkout.
So you know, identify yourself. But anyway, enough about me,
Laura. Why don't we do one of yours?
(10:35):
Cool. So the one I want to talk about
is I was on a panel or a webinar2 days ago with a company, a
tech company called Shipit. So I guess Alex, for you to, to
know what they do because they're very this they're
Australia, New Zealand. So they're a software platform.
They work with all the major carriers and they can integrate
with all the platforms. Yeah, and they offer different
(10:58):
delivery methods and really thatkind of software that enables
the better logistics. And they've done a report and
actually this is the report you've got up here, which I
think is a super interesting report for probably a lot of
regions, not just this market. The one caveat is there is some
things in it that I think are specific to the geography of
(11:21):
Australia, but it's a really, it's really detailed.
They've when they've drawn on data from not just retailers but
carriers and shoppers. So they've really intertwined
and they know how interconnectedthe three of them are and
they've done, I would say this is a very good analysis with
deep data fields of it. So yeah, that is a couple of
(11:42):
things which I thought was maybenot necessarily super
interesting, but the demand for same same day delivery grows.
And I, I know if you're talking about that quick commerce, what
we've always found here is it's been more about like just that
transparency convenience. But what I think is happening
with it is it's about logistics people are it's supply and
(12:06):
demand. So we're we're at a point where
the logistics companies have really stepped their game up and
they can do it quite a cost effective.
It's actually not that much moreto send same day as it is to do
express. So we're kind of we're kind of
finding that and and the truth is like for consumers, ultimate
speed is ultimate convenience. So that same day delivery is
(12:29):
going to pick up. The other thing that I really
like to hear about it was the investment going to ship from
store. So one, one thing that's
interesting is click and collecthas went a wee bit in the
decline here and you go, well, why is that?
And I really believe it's because if you think about
America, and again, I'm being very, I'm generalising.
(12:53):
So sorry if anyone listens from America, but they've got big
cars, they've got big roads, they've got big stores so you
can go up, you can drive up, youcan park your car and you can
and you can put things in your your boot.
We don't have that here. You know, we've got the
parking's terrible. We need to go to a Westfield.
So click and collect still there, still an option if you
can do it. But ship from store is coming up
(13:15):
strong. The reason why I guess this
report I think matters right nowis because this area is one of
the best. The report can give you insights
on how to be more profitable andhow to be more effective.
So one in five retailers are investing in ship from store
capabilities, which is cool, butto caveat that they're also not
(13:37):
using it for every store. So where we're at is retailers
have been a bit smarter, they'vemaybe tried different things and
they know that it's not a one-size-fits-all.
So they've been really selectiveabout, you know, what stores
make sense and you know, and I do think this is the one of the
ways that they'll operationally be able to improve their margins
and their profit. So really, really cool report
(14:00):
here. That is interesting.
I guess it's I see a lot of these as universals, endless
aisle. That's another big one.
Endless aisle. What do we mean?
If you think about online, just that ability to open up more
range, you know, to improve the revenue.
But even in the store, right, like the point in sales are
becoming a lot smarter. So I want a dress in two
(14:22):
colours. You've got one colour in, in
stock, the other colour is somewhere else.
I want to do 1 transaction and you, you sort it out how it gets
to me. So yeah, lot lots of goodies in
there. It's good to see that these kind
of, this is kind of coming up the funnel.
One of the biggest priorities isaround, you know, this kind of
supply chain piece. So that was super cool.
(14:46):
You've got the report, Alex. I've got a question what what
what was the sentiment was the sentiment that people and I know
when I come on to my bet, I'll talk about the post purchase,
but was the sentiment in Australia that people want it,
they want more delivery options,they want it faster or they
what's the sentiment there? Well, you know what I feel, I
(15:07):
feel like the last two or three years we've been through a lot
of things, right? Everyone's tried to do free
shipping, then everyone's been doing click and collect and now
we're at a little bit more of a mature space where you have to
take, we've now got these platforms like ship it or like
your point of sale that can enable you to do it.
Now it's time for the retailers to go back and figure out what
strategy works best for them. So I would say it's all about
(15:30):
hybrid fulfilment models and figuring out what's right for
your business, if that's shippedfrom store or what you do from
the the DC endless aisle, you know, Are you ready for that?
What's the steps that have to operationalize your business
before you get there? So the sentiment I get is that
it's all there. It's it's getting cheaper at
(15:51):
even the cost. I think the interesting thing
was of everything we're seeing going up, the shipping cost
hasn't gone up that much. And actually in certain ways
like that same day it's coming down.
So just smarter business logic has to be applied.
So that's. The so Laura, does that mean
(16:12):
that retailers are looking at say with the with the cost of
shipping coming down, is the consumer prepared to pay for
same day delivery? Yes, I'm guessing are they, are
they, are they turning into a place where they can make margin
as well as selling the item? Listen, I think that's a bit
debate. It's a bit of a debate.
What the report did say that there was a reduction in people
(16:34):
offering free shipping, but thenin the same, in the same and the
next like kind of study piece, it was like people are going to
be investing more in free shipping.
So what I took from that was people or businesses stopped
doing as much free shipping because they were losing a lot
of money and they didn't have it.
The logic and it's smart enough for their business.
(16:56):
I think that free shipping is a very important tool, but you
have to have the right mechanism.
Like what is the threshold that you apply?
Are you doing that for certain products or is it like the ones
that are everywhere that easy toget out?
So I think it's, it's and also like you said, it's about
transparency and convenience is probably #1 and it's options.
(17:18):
So it's, it's a range of everything.
It's like business smarts. Where do you make money?
Where do you not bet choice if they want it fast, if they want
it same day, can you charge thatmoney?
Are you really making a premium on it?
I don't think so, right? I don't, I don't think we're
there yet. What you said last week about
quick commerce, I think that's adifferent beast.
(17:39):
But same day delivery is almost becoming the new express
delivery. Yeah.
And that that piece about, you know, we talked about you talked
about delivery inventory or I suppose distribution inventory.
I mean we saw it was really funny, you know, when I had all
those Marley Spoons and all those different types of meal
(18:01):
delivery systems that used to come in the evening and you'd
get one every day or a box, right.
That that interestingly enough created a whole bunch of
inventory for couriers that thatretailers could do same day
delivery off the back of. So what was happening was
another industry created a demand that then other that
other people could draught off the back of.
So, you know, people were getting meals delivered every
(18:22):
night. That created a whole bunch of
Courier imagery there. And all of a sudden people were
doing same day delivery with fashion items, you know?
Well, you know, it's funny, in the report they talk about the
Amazon effect. I mean, we've been talking about
the Amazon effect for 10 years, right?
But really it's like what you'vejust said is a bit different,
but it's the Uber Eats effect like it really is.
(18:43):
And it's so interesting. It's actually that grocery and
the foods category that's drivena lot of the innovation.
So yeah, I think it's just the expectation.
I also think that people really like to use platforms.
It's almost like to your point of that wallet platforms offer,
I think customers are forgiven if they know that the carrier
(19:03):
has got you update them like sorry, we've got a delay because
it's you know it's Black Friday,we've got too many packages
coming out. So but what I don't think they
like is these blanket or you your parcel will be there in 2
days. They want real time data.
They if they can see exactly where it is even better.
So I would say it's the Uber Eats effect that we're in now
(19:24):
and it's all just a bit transparency option.
And then I think retailers, it'sjust smarter business practises
to make sure they're not losing money is is where we're at.
Yeah. I mean the point about grocery
too is really interesting because when grocery becomes
mainstream, a digital purchase, it seems that that Tide lists
(19:45):
all boats in a market. So when you look at a market
like, you know, Australia, when we turned over, turned to click
and collect and, and grocery became a core behaviour we did
on a regular, on a routine basisto buy groceries, we actually
saw all the other elements associated with grocery delivery
and purchase. So fashion retail grew, you
(20:06):
know, hardware retail grew because grocery became routine,
digital retail became and grocery became routine.
And all the associated services and products around that also
grew because grocery created a massive.
Draught which everyone right offthe back of.
Yeah, OK, Well, thank you. I think that sort sort of lends
(20:28):
itself to to to what I was doing.
So I I was moderating a panel atE Tail.
Let me share with you that Therewe go.
And So what was interesting about this was I was with,
there's only four, four turned up in the end, but they were
very different categories. So we had female hygiene, which
(20:48):
the founder there was talking about breaking down stigmas.
The focus of the talk was about post purchase.
What are retailers doing post purchase to build community, to
build engagement, to keep their brand going?
And so when you apply that, you know, post purchase lens on how
can you do all of these things after you've pressed buy,
(21:12):
obviously then it goes into delivery.
For example, they were saying about writing handwritten notes,
but if I just quickly finish on who else was on the panel on
stage with me? So we had thermal hygiene, we
had need it for tonight, who basically is a london-based
young company that's all about getting needed for tonight.
As it says you've seen something, you need it for
(21:34):
tonight, 90 minute delivery. But she was interestingly
talking enough, talking about how her customers have asked for
different options because it wassort of a maybe need it for the
day, maybe need it for tomorrow.And so therefore she, although
her business was all about democratising delivery, which is
I, I don't know if that's the same as what you were talking
(21:54):
about Laura, in terms of having these delivery options, her
community, her customers wanted those sorts of things.
And, and I did push like it is quick commerce a thing because
I, I interviewed the guy from Deliveroo and I asked him about
do we want to get to 15 minutes delivery here?
And the panel all said, well, itdepends on what, right?
(22:15):
Maybe there is a thing that you need in 15 minutes like you're
building a house and you need a screw or something and you need
it within 15 minutes or under 30minutes.
So that was needed for tonight. Then we had cutter and Squid,
which was, I mean, that community would, I didn't know
any of these brands, but huge, huge, huge community.
They they do baked goods and they're all upmarket.
(22:37):
You find them in Harrods and Selfridges.
And so it was this baked goods products.
But yeah, I love that she, she was really one of the ladies on
the panel that sort of knew her customer and was very like how
they're focused on she, she was saying about putting handwritten
notes into the delivery and doing, doing these little micro
(23:00):
things to build that relationship.
And the biggest point that she made was that everyone chases
the transaction. And it feels like a lot of these
post purchases, if there is no transaction, there is no
relationship. And so this was a whole thing
about how you, you, you sort of have other things to talk to
your customer about beyond what they're buying from you, which
(23:25):
we all know and I know Aretha, and if this was mentioned,
community based retail, people often confuse what that means,
right? And a community based retailer
is actually focused on outcomes that is beyond the transaction.
The transaction is just that, oh, you've bought something that
is in that community. And I think again, globally, I
(23:49):
see this as an area where retailers are really weak
because they don't know what that means.
Does that mean we're just doing silly TikTok things?
Again, another brand here in UK,Europe that's done really well
is Currys. Curry sells electronic items.
For years that category has beendecimated by Amazon.
But all of a sudden Curry's cameback with with phenomenal
(24:13):
employee LED content, which is now with from an industry
perspective doing well. And the final category was
beauty, recycled beauty, which again, I think that was a
younger company. So there wasn't as much insight,
but was. Recycled Beauty.
So using products that have like, it was all about
(24:33):
sustainability in the sort of circular economy.
So taking food products like ketchup at the end of its cycle
and bringing that back because there's elements in there that
can be used as makeup remover and other elements.
And it was super fascinating. But it was a young company.
I think it was like, you know, acouple of years, I don't know
(24:54):
how old it was, but it was, you know, female founder, but still
in that early startup upstage. So I was, it was interesting,
but the, there wasn't a depth ofinsight in that example there.
Whereas the, the baked goods, you know, they've got 300,000
followers in their, in their community and that's what
(25:15):
they're about. But I think I, I went into their
thinking, Oh my God, post purchase, of course, people have
got it all locked down. That's what they do.
They've been selling and it's just such a chaos out there and
so disjointed in the types of different experiences.
Do you know, Alex, out of that report, it said that 64% of the
Australian consumers will not shop from a brand again when
(25:36):
they've had a bad delivery experience.
So it's like the new loyalty as as as the purchase, you know,
and, and I think that's where wefocus so much on getting them to
the to the check out. And really that's that's where
it starts. So I bet yeah, that start like,
you know, 64% that's where customers are at now.
(25:58):
They really expect like this expected delivery just to be
like, you know, what you say is what you do.
And so that's part of the post purchase and it's a big part.
One of the founders said exactlythat.
Over communicate. Don't be shy in communicating.
We talked about e-mail a bit about how that's done.
And again, you're talking about WhatsApp and about how WhatsApp
(26:20):
as a medium for communication isso important.
Yeah, absolutely. It's this Omni channel, that
Channel of mobile communication,how you, how you build.
And I think again, it's about measured, getting it right.
I think some people get it rightor wrong.
Laura, why don't you do your your next one?
OK, I'll, I'll try and make thissuccinct so that I want to talk
(26:43):
a wee bit about the Country Rd group.
So Alex, if you don't know, the Country Rd group is, I mean, I
want to say a heritage suite of brands, but maybe legacy is the
right word. You know, they're
interchangeable and maybe one second or another, but they've
got the Country Rd group have witchery, trainery, Memco
politics and country roads. That's the 555 brands.
(27:08):
There are over a billion dollarsrevenue business, really, really
big one and they have just appointed a new CEO.
So this CEO we love to poach someone from the UK over here.
He was one of the one of the bosses of Debenhams and he's I
think he's literally just started this week.
(27:29):
So now I guess why, why do I want to bring that up when I
think about the country Rd group.
Well, well, let's even talk stats, right?
The latest trades report this the store sales were down by
14%. The business is down.
That's that's pretty massive. If you think about 14% on a
(27:50):
billion dollar business, it's it's, you're just across the
group. But but even more scary, it's
the profit. The profit was down in the last
year or roughly the last year. I'm, I'm not 100% on the dates,
but by 93%. So the, the executive team have
kind of pointed a little bit. It's been heavily discounting,
(28:12):
lots of discounting going on across the group and the high
costs. But really I think there's a lot
more to it. I feel like the brands have
completely lost their way. If you look at if you look at
which the country roads and Trinity, they're kind of lost in
the sea of sameness. And yeah, the new CEO like
(28:35):
pulling it out of the the this kind of issue with the profit.
But I really think that these these brands have a massive
opportunity where they can reinvent themselves.
But it's so I'm I'm kind of putting them on the watch list.
Like that to me is going to be very sad for they're owned by
the parent company. Is, is it Woolworths Holding
from South Africa so that they're owned by parent company?
(28:59):
I got to say as well that they actually had really bad press
last year. Lots of a toxic workplace, lots
of the CEO who was there, who's resigned was investigated.
I think they had to do one of the kind of, you know, get
someone to come in and look at it.
Lots of reports about harassmentof different natures from men
and women. So I think, you know, the one
(29:22):
thing I see with these businesses, and again, this is a
bit of observation, like, you know, when they've got CEO,
obviously there's lots of toxic,there's issues within the
leadership and within the culture of the business.
He's now gone, he resigned and they've got someone new in.
But I think it's like ultimatelywho's the customer, right?
(29:45):
Like your employees are #1 customer and you know, I, I, I
think that's customers are customers, but then customers
are your team. So there's been quite a lot of
issues in that business and it, it must have had an impact on
what we're seeing with the brands and where they're at.
So on a positive, let's try and be positive.
There's new blood coming in. His name's Stephen Cook from
(30:06):
Debenhams. I'd love to see a woman at one
of these bloody businesses at some point.
But anyway, another man from theUK comes over.
I'm really sorry. I'm sorry.
We'll get there when I'm dead. Yeah.
That's my my one. Perfect.
Thank you. Reef all right, to finish off.
I'm going to bring something back closer to home.
(30:27):
We came out of COVID. I work in a bench as you realise
that it's been a big part of my life for a long time.
It's hard to hard to let go. But the thing that happened
after COVID, everyone was so keen to get back together.
That wasn't really about going to a show to buy stuff.
It was just about the going backshow to be back with your peers.
And while that's really, really important, I think as we start
(30:49):
to emerge from that darkness andwe really we've got over the
novelty of face to in real, in real person events.
Again, I think retailers really need to think about the way they
approach events from a professional point of view.
And what I mean by that is they need to come with some intent.
I think they need a framework bywhich they come to an event, you
(31:12):
know, to the way they to the waythey enter the enter the fray,
so to speak. What are the problems they're
trying to solve today, tomorrow,next year?
What are the horizons? What are the mechanisms they
have in place when they make a new discovery that solves
problems in their business that they haven't thought of?
So it's because one of the things that's really clear is it
(31:34):
events do speed up the timeline with with potential partners.
You know, you think about how long it takes you to meet 10
different vendors in your day job and then you go off to an
event and go, oh, shit, I met 10people in in, in an afternoon,
right? So there's that part of it.
And then I mean, and, and I think the ones that are the
(31:56):
retailers that are doing it welland the benchmarks are really
coming with intent, like and sending people in Tiger teams.
We had one, but Laura already mentioned our media today, but
we, we had one large retail group in Australia who would say
to us, we are starting a tender,the tender process at your
(32:16):
event. This is the problem we're trying
to solve. You have two of the vendors in
the space. There are 6.
We need 3 to start a tender process.
Ring the others up and tell themto buy a ticket, right?
So they turn up right one because guess what they get,
they say and they would, they'd say to us, we not only can see
(32:37):
the solutions and have conversations around the
solutions and, and address our problem directly with them.
We actually get to meet the individuals wrapped around the
product. And we get to over the course of
the two or three days, you get to build a personal relationship
with them or not depending if wefeel we can work with them or
not. So it's incredibly valuable.
So for me, one of the things I'dsay to retailers now is that if
(33:04):
you're coming to an event, yes, you're going to be sold to.
That's OK because that's what their job is to do.
That's what they paid their money to be there in terms of
exhibitors and sponsors. But do come with intent, do come
with a plan and do come with some outcomes in mind that you
want to achieve. Because I think for me, you'll,
(33:24):
you will, you will drive the event in a certain way for
yourself, for the organiser, andyou'll get better outcomes for
your business. So I think you know, and that
that that's true to any form. So you know, then you can make,
you're actually coming and you can make demands on the event as
a retailer because you can say, well, I need this, this and
(33:44):
this, this event provided me this and this event didn't
provide me this, but you've actually come in with an
objective lens. So that's A and.
That. And that.
I mean, I've been I've been agency in techs, I've been a a
buyer of space at many of Reefs conferences.
I think we have a bit of a tendency this side of the world.
We maybe sales isn't as it's softer, but then it's still
(34:09):
sales and then we've got the retailers who really don't they
know. So I really just want to move
back to like bring in the sales people who are just going to be
in your face set sell and then the retailer can just say go
away. Not yet.
I think what we've moved into this kind of messy soft middle
(34:29):
and it the the the nature of thepeople in this part of the world
are a little bit less direct like the than the Americans,
right. So it it does feel that we need
to kind of step that game up andjust talk a bit more.
Let's sell. This is a conference.
This is why come we intend say no, say yes, have the meeting.
And I I feel you there. I think, I think everyone who's
(34:53):
yeah, I think hopefully with thenext conference coming up next
month, we'll see a wee bit more to that.
But let's let's. Yeah.
But I think without, I mean youryour conference online retailer,
I think Laura, I think going to that, you know, it's the biggest
e-commerce event in Australia from a trade show point of view.
And, and really there's, there'sa lot of sponsors who put a lot
(35:14):
of money in and they're putting on, they're putting their best
foot forward. So if you're a retailer going to
that show, you've got to take advantage of that moment in
time. If you don't, you're mad, you're
crazy. So, yeah, so it's not one of my
shows, but it's, it's a good show and people, retailers are
turning up. If you're going to spend the
money and spend the time, use the time well, use it well
(35:35):
because these people are puttingtheir best foot forward.
They're giving you everything they've got.
They're giving you all the IP that they can give you.
You can make some pretty deep decisions pretty quickly because
it's all on show. Yeah, I mean, so this isn't a
shameless plug, but one of my largest customers, they probably
will stand one or two in size atEuro shop next year, which only
(35:59):
happens every three years. It's Europe's obviously a part.
Well, anyway, factually it's Europe's largest show.
It's massive. And the reason it's massive it's
because it's everything from fridges to lighting to fixtures
to fittings. The technology, it's like you go
there and fit out your whole retail operations and hence it
only happens every three years. It's in Germany.
(36:21):
But a lot of the work that I'm doing in terms of creating, you
know, in retail, we're so used to talking about the path to
purchase. But as I say, what's your path
to conference? What's your, you know, as
someone who's expoing, how are you building content to the
event through the event and thenpost the event?
And so not only do retailers notthink of it in that, I mean, one
(36:44):
of the beautiful things about NRFUS, which of, you know, 13
years as someone on the stand asa visitor and now as a
commentator. I used to work with, you know,
the innovation team of Target, where they would come, the
scouts would come to the, the Microsoft booth, we would talk
about what innovations that we have.
(37:04):
Then the second day, the, the Target, you know, leadership
will turn up and then you go through them and talk about
that. And I think, you know, people
miss you, Laura, going back to your point about selling, but
for me it's about inspiring. And you know, a lot of people
turn up to sell, absolutely. But how are you going to inspire
(37:25):
apart from the gimmick, right? So yeah, we all love and shop
talk. We were all at Shop Talk Spring,
you know, we saw the the lines of people around booths that
were giving away Stanley Cups orUgg boots or you know, so yes,
that is important from brand recognition.
But what what's the point of having brand recognition if you
(37:47):
haven't, if you're not giving any flavour of what you do, you
know? And so I find, I find there are
so many missed opportunities from retail side and from from
Expo side. And obviously if you want to fix
any of that, feel free to reach it now.
I'm joking. So anyway, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's got it's, it's at the end of the
(38:10):
day, someone is paying and someone has got a, you know,
it's, it's not always, it's not always a free lunch.
But the point is too that no. But the frustrating.
But but yeah, but but the key thing is really is that, you
know, if, if you're not turning up just to to to, you know,
really dig under the skin of a problem you might have or solve
a problem or look at or discovernew things that can make a big
(38:33):
step change in your business. Why are you there?
Well, look, retail tech show in London, right, has gone again
from from strength to strength. This year they were at the
Excel, which was, I don't know, 5.
They've gone from basically 3000to 5000.
The numbers keep growing. It's a free show.
I think it's probably the UK's largest retail show.
And I was talking to one of the exhibitors and, you know, they
(38:56):
were complaining, oh, this is soexpensive.
We're not getting a return on our investment.
And I said, well, what, what, what's the path to conference
and what's the path through conference?
Yeah, but we're here. And it was a really big stand.
And I was like, well, just beinghere is not enough.
What you know, how how are you looking at it from the
retailer's perspective? Those poor guys have got 100
(39:19):
other you's here. What is that experience that
you're going to give them apart from having this beautiful
stand? And they were like, OK, all
right. And because I think a lot of
people just sort of turn up and expect it to, you know, the
sales to follow. But anyway, any closing vote,
any course, closing comments, Sorry, this is episode 101.
(39:44):
So happy birthday or whatever they do.
It's not episode 101 of Five Things Friday, it's episode 7,
but. Happy birthday, Alex.
Yeah. It's anyway episode 101, so
really happy with that. Congratulations.
Thank you. Any closing thoughts before we
close? Not for me.
(40:06):
I'm looking forward to next week.
I've already know what I'm goingto talk about, so that's going.
To be, I think we just need to get better at not talking so
much. We've.
Set A We've set a record for time today.
It's been good. I just find it's long, but we're
getting better. We're getting into our if we
(40:26):
were critique. I felt this was probably one of
our best shows yet. And on that bombshell, thank you
so much for listening. Thank you.
Thank you, Alex. Thank you, Laura.
OK, bye.
I was clap at the beginning of the episodes.
I noticed I'm always editing myself going hello, hello,
hello. Welcome back to five things
Friday AIPAC edition. Now I'm in a hotel room.
It's 5:00 AM in the morning in London and I'm privileged to be
joined by my fabulous Co host inSydney, Australia.
(00:23):
Good morning. Oh sorry.
Good afternoon, Laura and Reef. Good afternoon.
Good morning, Alex. Good morning, good afternoon.
Hi copy is here. Listen, one thing I noticed from
last and I always take this for granted.
So the the fantastic YouTube numbers are in for June and we
were at 45,000 views across the retail podcast and five things
(00:48):
Friday for for June. So super, super happy really to
get that notification. It's I posted it on LinkedIn
because I was like, Lily, peopleare listening to it above my
mom. But one thing I noticed on all
the shows, I really take for granted that our little
community sort of always turns up and knows who we are.
(01:11):
So I know last week we just sortof dove into it.
And when it's a hey, I'm, you know, like I'm Alex, I help
businesses stay relevant and be thought leaders in retail.
That's how we commercialise the retail podcast.
That's what I do and that's whatpays my my wage.
But I was wondering if you guys can just give a quick little one
(01:32):
line and then we'll jump into five things Friday.
What's top of mind for you? Is that OK?
Oh. I think so.
Laura. Laura, you can go first.
How about that? Yeah.
So IA consultant I've came from,I've came from tech, I've came
from retail and I have most recently just left an agency
(01:52):
working with a lot of brands andthat kind of Shopify by commerce
ecosystem and now out in my own and I work directly with the
C-Suite and boards to help them do digital transformation
projects. So that's.
And you're world famous because I remember meeting people in
Singapore. They were like, oh, Laura.
Yeah, yeah, we work around. They were like some tech
startup. But anyway, world famous Laura.
(02:15):
Thank you. We're very, we're quite self
deprecating the Scots. But yeah, I I get around.
Take it, Laura. Take it.
Take it. Thank you Hi, I'm Reef and we
probably know me already, but that's OK I started my career as
a digital person so launched banking for Internet banking or
Internet banking for a bank be an agency been marketing
(02:39):
director and and sort of fell onmy way into events and found it
was a lot more fun to work on the industry rather than in the
industry for for my personality type.
I love the people around it. So what's been great for me is
that I actually in my current role at running in a ref APEC is
that I have, I see everything, you know, So I'm seeing so much
(03:01):
stuff, which is just so rewarding.
And so I can stay close to how everything's progressing and,
and be an observer and sometimesbe an advisor, but just be part
of be really at the front of what's happening in retail
around the region. Well.
It's a, it's a privilege to haveboth of you with me.
I think it's a it's a really, I think it's unique.
(03:23):
I've got to be honest, I listen to a lot of podcasts.
There's a there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff out
there. It's really.
But anyway, let's get straight into it.
Reef, since we're on you, why don't you give us your first one
and then we'll go to you. Laura Cool.
Yeah, OK, cool. So the for me, the first one
this week is, is going to centrearound payments.
Payments for me as an Australiangoing up into Asia and spending
(03:43):
lots of time up there was a realrevelation.
In Western countries, we're all so used to credit cards.
Well, it's just the core of how we pay.
And when you go up into Asia, you know, credit cards are
really dwarfed by other mechanisms.
Like, you know, Asia say it's about 15% credit card payments.
(04:07):
We're talking what we're seeing now in some markets,
particularly Indonesia and Malaysia.
But in that, in that, in that Asian region, 73% of e-commerce
payments are through mobile wallets, right?
That's staggering. The Malaysian government a
little while back, basically, hesaid, we want to make sure all
(04:29):
payments are digital. So therefore, we're going to
endorse 5 mobile wallets. And if you start using them, Joe
Punter, we'll put $20 US in it so you can actually use it.
So a lot of the retailers had a strategy of just absorbing that
$20 as quickly as the governmentdoled it out.
But the point is that it's changed behaviour.
The other thing that's really happening in the in the region
(04:50):
is, and every one of the Asian markets have QR code payments.
So you go in. So you you would have seen it in
WeChat and Alipay where you scanAQR code and it draws money out
of the account associated with that application.
But Singapore has its own application, you know, India has
(05:10):
UPI, Indonesia has its own network and QR system, which is
QQRIS. So there's so many of them in
the region. So QR code is payment has become
really, really prevalent. I mean, N Asia, particularly
with China with WeChat and Alipay, you know, it's just
call, you can't, you can't pay with a credit card in Beijing,
except at a Western hotel. Everything else you have to pay
(05:33):
via either WeChat or Alipay and you have to be loaded up before
you even get in in country. Then the last thing that's
really happening, it's really starting to explode in the
region is what we call A to a payment platform and A to a is
account to account. And looking at payments
referencing or just doing some research in the other day,
(05:55):
reckon real time payments by account to account networks, say
particularly India, China, Thailand and and wider Asia,
Southeast Asian region, we'll hit 563 billion by 2027.
So what does that mean? It means that we're actually not
seeing, we're seeing a situationwhere banks that people are
paying from bank to bank rather than through other
(06:17):
intermediaries. And what that means is, you
know, when you're doing those type of things where we're
seeing that that'll explode digital commerce.
But by by taking those, using those tools, you can, you can
overcome some of the basic issues around fraud and
cybersecurity because you're not, you're no longer paying
(06:37):
through intermediaries, You're actually, you're actually paying
for one to another. So there's, there's lots of big
pluses. And these are, these are things
that as Westerners we're not familiar with, but it's core
commonplace behaviour in those markets.
So it is. So, so just to quickly come in
on that, we in Europe, the form banks across Portugal, Spain and
(06:59):
Italy signed an agreement, it's called Bizu Biz, which basically
bought account to account payments to something like 300.
And no, no, no, no, no, something like 120 million
consumers can cross-border and obviously in country do account
to account payments. And what the fascinate I, I used
(07:20):
to always be like one of those people that looked down on
account to account payments because who would use that?
Why would you use that? And then all of a sudden in my
own daily life, I notice I'm paying for the piano teacher,
I'm paying for like different little things.
And then Iberia or the airline companies are now accepting
payments from account to account.
(07:40):
And I think it's such a sort of growth area.
So it I mean, it's something that is because it all needs
like sort of a Federated networkfor the banks to agree to, to do
this with each other. But I think for regions, I can
just see that expanding out fromcountry to country and that's
quite interesting. And the reason this has come to
(08:01):
light for me, I mean, obviously I see it in all the retailers,
but one of the things that really sort of came home to me
was the fact that we'd be on site at our show and sell, tick
selling tickets on day one of the show.
And credit cards are not important.
You know, being able to pay account to account payments is
(08:23):
how people are paying their tickets on Friday.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. People don't have corporate
credit cards. It's not like living in the US,
right? So we have to have all these
other mechanisms to take payments to because people can
buy a ticket because they haven't got a credit card.
So, you know, that sort of things.
Really interesting. So, you know, and so you're
thinking as a retailer coming upinto the region I thought I
(08:44):
talked about the other week withthe the marketplaces, the
ability to present the payment option that the consumer wants
for the market they're in is something that the marketplaces
do very well as an example. Yeah.
It's it's also like, you know, even like, you know, is it it's
not so popular in Australia, butis it like Ven is it Venmo?
(09:05):
Is that what they call it? It's like there's a lot in
Africa. No, it's really popular for that
peer-to-peer payment. You're out for dinner, you use
Venmo. So it's China as well.
I think it is coming more like it's been driven by Asia, but it
is starting to penetrate other markets and it's more driven by
that peer-to-peer payment side and probably reef.
(09:27):
One of the things I remember andyou know, I'm happy admit, admit
when I'm wrong, but I haven't been that wrong many times in
the e-commerce like landscape ofI've been able to really get
good at predicting what tech will work.
But I remember at an I media event years and years ago and
they were talking about QR codesand I was like, this is absolute
(09:51):
not this is BS. Like it's not going to be a
thing. And QR codes are, you know,
really, really important. They're everywhere from I know
they're everywhere from paymentsto finding out more information
and the product and the IO everything.
So yeah, QR codes is an interesting 1.
So probably I. Think COVID helped with that.
(10:13):
Yeah, I think so too. It created a behaviour that
we've never seen before, you know?
Yeah, I mean just a blow my own try.
I for Tesco's, I built a store of the future in 2013 and that
was all about QR code checking, QR code checkout.
So you know, identify yourself. But anyway, enough about me,
Laura. Why don't we do one of yours?
(10:35):
Cool. So the one I want to talk about
is I was on a panel or a webinar2 days ago with a company, a
tech company called Shipit. So I guess Alex, for you to, to
know what they do because they're very this they're
Australia, New Zealand. So they're a software platform.
They work with all the major carriers and they can integrate
with all the platforms. Yeah, and they offer different
(10:58):
delivery methods and really thatkind of software that enables
the better logistics. And they've done a report and
actually this is the report you've got up here, which I
think is a super interesting report for probably a lot of
regions, not just this market. The one caveat is there is some
things in it that I think are specific to the geography of
(11:21):
Australia, but it's a really, it's really detailed.
They've when they've drawn on data from not just retailers but
carriers and shoppers. So they've really intertwined
and they know how interconnectedthe three of them are and
they've done, I would say this is a very good analysis with
deep data fields of it. So yeah, that is a couple of
(11:42):
things which I thought was maybenot necessarily super
interesting, but the demand for same same day delivery grows.
And I, I know if you're talking about that quick commerce, what
we've always found here is it's been more about like just that
transparency convenience. But what I think is happening
with it is it's about logistics people are it's supply and
(12:06):
demand. So we're we're at a point where
the logistics companies have really stepped their game up and
they can do it quite a cost effective.
It's actually not that much moreto send same day as it is to do
express. So we're kind of we're kind of
finding that and and the truth is like for consumers, ultimate
speed is ultimate convenience. So that same day delivery is
(12:29):
going to pick up. The other thing that I really
like to hear about it was the investment going to ship from
store. So one, one thing that's
interesting is click and collecthas went a wee bit in the
decline here and you go, well, why is that?
And I really believe it's because if you think about
America, and again, I'm being very, I'm generalising.
(12:53):
So sorry if anyone listens from America, but they've got big
cars, they've got big roads, they've got big stores so you
can go up, you can drive up, youcan park your car and you can
and you can put things in your your boot.
We don't have that here. You know, we've got the
parking's terrible. We need to go to a Westfield.
So click and collect still there, still an option if you
can do it. But ship from store is coming up
(13:15):
strong. The reason why I guess this
report I think matters right nowis because this area is one of
the best. The report can give you insights
on how to be more profitable andhow to be more effective.
So one in five retailers are investing in ship from store
capabilities, which is cool, butto caveat that they're also not
(13:37):
using it for every store. So where we're at is retailers
have been a bit smarter, they'vemaybe tried different things and
they know that it's not a one-size-fits-all.
So they've been really selectiveabout, you know, what stores
make sense and you know, and I do think this is the one of the
ways that they'll operationally be able to improve their margins
and their profit. So really, really cool report
(14:00):
here. That is interesting.
I guess it's I see a lot of these as universals, endless
aisle. That's another big one.
Endless aisle. What do we mean?
If you think about online, just that ability to open up more
range, you know, to improve the revenue.
But even in the store, right, like the point in sales are
becoming a lot smarter. So I want a dress in two
(14:22):
colours. You've got one colour in, in
stock, the other colour is somewhere else.
I want to do 1 transaction and you, you sort it out how it gets
to me. So yeah, lot lots of goodies in
there. It's good to see that these kind
of, this is kind of coming up the funnel.
One of the biggest priorities isaround, you know, this kind of
supply chain piece. So that was super cool.
(14:46):
You've got the report, Alex. I've got a question what what
what was the sentiment was the sentiment that people and I know
when I come on to my bet, I'll talk about the post purchase,
but was the sentiment in Australia that people want it,
they want more delivery options,they want it faster or they
what's the sentiment there? Well, you know what I feel, I
(15:07):
feel like the last two or three years we've been through a lot
of things, right? Everyone's tried to do free
shipping, then everyone's been doing click and collect and now
we're at a little bit more of a mature space where you have to
take, we've now got these platforms like ship it or like
your point of sale that can enable you to do it.
Now it's time for the retailers to go back and figure out what
strategy works best for them. So I would say it's all about
(15:30):
hybrid fulfilment models and figuring out what's right for
your business, if that's shippedfrom store or what you do from
the the DC endless aisle, you know, Are you ready for that?
What's the steps that have to operationalize your business
before you get there? So the sentiment I get is that
it's all there. It's it's getting cheaper at
(15:51):
even the cost. I think the interesting thing
was of everything we're seeing going up, the shipping cost
hasn't gone up that much. And actually in certain ways
like that same day it's coming down.
So just smarter business logic has to be applied.
So that's. The so Laura, does that mean
(16:12):
that retailers are looking at say with the with the cost of
shipping coming down, is the consumer prepared to pay for
same day delivery? Yes, I'm guessing are they, are
they, are they turning into a place where they can make margin
as well as selling the item? Listen, I think that's a bit
debate. It's a bit of a debate.
What the report did say that there was a reduction in people
(16:34):
offering free shipping, but thenin the same, in the same and the
next like kind of study piece, it was like people are going to
be investing more in free shipping.
So what I took from that was people or businesses stopped
doing as much free shipping because they were losing a lot
of money and they didn't have it.
The logic and it's smart enough for their business.
(16:56):
I think that free shipping is a very important tool, but you
have to have the right mechanism.
Like what is the threshold that you apply?
Are you doing that for certain products or is it like the ones
that are everywhere that easy toget out?
So I think it's, it's and also like you said, it's about
transparency and convenience is probably #1 and it's options.
(17:18):
So it's, it's a range of everything.
It's like business smarts. Where do you make money?
Where do you not bet choice if they want it fast, if they want
it same day, can you charge thatmoney?
Are you really making a premium on it?
I don't think so, right? I don't, I don't think we're
there yet. What you said last week about
quick commerce, I think that's adifferent beast.
(17:39):
But same day delivery is almost becoming the new express
delivery. Yeah.
And that that piece about, you know, we talked about you talked
about delivery inventory or I suppose distribution inventory.
I mean we saw it was really funny, you know, when I had all
those Marley Spoons and all those different types of meal
(18:01):
delivery systems that used to come in the evening and you'd
get one every day or a box, right.
That that interestingly enough created a whole bunch of
inventory for couriers that thatretailers could do same day
delivery off the back of. So what was happening was
another industry created a demand that then other that
other people could draught off the back of.
So, you know, people were getting meals delivered every
(18:22):
night. That created a whole bunch of
Courier imagery there. And all of a sudden people were
doing same day delivery with fashion items, you know?
Well, you know, it's funny, in the report they talk about the
Amazon effect. I mean, we've been talking about
the Amazon effect for 10 years, right?
But really it's like what you'vejust said is a bit different,
but it's the Uber Eats effect like it really is.
(18:43):
And it's so interesting. It's actually that grocery and
the foods category that's drivena lot of the innovation.
So yeah, I think it's just the expectation.
I also think that people really like to use platforms.
It's almost like to your point of that wallet platforms offer,
I think customers are forgiven if they know that the carrier
(19:03):
has got you update them like sorry, we've got a delay because
it's you know it's Black Friday,we've got too many packages
coming out. So but what I don't think they
like is these blanket or you your parcel will be there in 2
days. They want real time data.
They if they can see exactly where it is even better.
So I would say it's the Uber Eats effect that we're in now
(19:24):
and it's all just a bit transparency option.
And then I think retailers, it'sjust smarter business practises
to make sure they're not losing money is is where we're at.
Yeah. I mean the point about grocery
too is really interesting because when grocery becomes
mainstream, a digital purchase, it seems that that Tide lists
(19:45):
all boats in a market. So when you look at a market
like, you know, Australia, when we turned over, turned to click
and collect and, and grocery became a core behaviour we did
on a regular, on a routine basisto buy groceries, we actually
saw all the other elements associated with grocery delivery
and purchase. So fashion retail grew, you
(20:06):
know, hardware retail grew because grocery became routine,
digital retail became and grocery became routine.
And all the associated services and products around that also
grew because grocery created a massive.
Draught which everyone right offthe back of.
Yeah, OK, Well, thank you. I think that sort sort of lends
(20:28):
itself to to to what I was doing.
So I I was moderating a panel atE Tail.
Let me share with you that Therewe go.
And So what was interesting about this was I was with,
there's only four, four turned up in the end, but they were
very different categories. So we had female hygiene, which
(20:48):
the founder there was talking about breaking down stigmas.
The focus of the talk was about post purchase.
What are retailers doing post purchase to build community, to
build engagement, to keep their brand going?
And so when you apply that, you know, post purchase lens on how
can you do all of these things after you've pressed buy,
(21:12):
obviously then it goes into delivery.
For example, they were saying about writing handwritten notes,
but if I just quickly finish on who else was on the panel on
stage with me? So we had thermal hygiene, we
had need it for tonight, who basically is a london-based
young company that's all about getting needed for tonight.
As it says you've seen something, you need it for
(21:34):
tonight, 90 minute delivery. But she was interestingly
talking enough, talking about how her customers have asked for
different options because it wassort of a maybe need it for the
day, maybe need it for tomorrow.And so therefore she, although
her business was all about democratising delivery, which is
I, I don't know if that's the same as what you were talking
(21:54):
about Laura, in terms of having these delivery options, her
community, her customers wanted those sorts of things.
And, and I did push like it is quick commerce a thing because
I, I interviewed the guy from Deliveroo and I asked him about
do we want to get to 15 minutes delivery here?
And the panel all said, well, itdepends on what, right?
(22:15):
Maybe there is a thing that you need in 15 minutes like you're
building a house and you need a screw or something and you need
it within 15 minutes or under 30minutes.
So that was needed for tonight. Then we had cutter and Squid,
which was, I mean, that community would, I didn't know
any of these brands, but huge, huge, huge community.
They they do baked goods and they're all upmarket.
(22:37):
You find them in Harrods and Selfridges.
And so it was this baked goods products.
But yeah, I love that she, she was really one of the ladies on
the panel that sort of knew her customer and was very like how
they're focused on she, she was saying about putting handwritten
notes into the delivery and doing, doing these little micro
(23:00):
things to build that relationship.
And the biggest point that she made was that everyone chases
the transaction. And it feels like a lot of these
post purchases, if there is no transaction, there is no
relationship. And so this was a whole thing
about how you, you, you sort of have other things to talk to
your customer about beyond what they're buying from you, which
(23:25):
we all know and I know Aretha, and if this was mentioned,
community based retail, people often confuse what that means,
right? And a community based retailer
is actually focused on outcomes that is beyond the transaction.
The transaction is just that, oh, you've bought something that
is in that community. And I think again, globally, I
(23:49):
see this as an area where retailers are really weak
because they don't know what that means.
Does that mean we're just doing silly TikTok things?
Again, another brand here in UK,Europe that's done really well
is Currys. Curry sells electronic items.
For years that category has beendecimated by Amazon.
But all of a sudden Curry's cameback with with phenomenal
(24:13):
employee LED content, which is now with from an industry
perspective doing well. And the final category was
beauty, recycled beauty, which again, I think that was a
younger company. So there wasn't as much insight,
but was. Recycled Beauty.
So using products that have like, it was all about
(24:33):
sustainability in the sort of circular economy.
So taking food products like ketchup at the end of its cycle
and bringing that back because there's elements in there that
can be used as makeup remover and other elements.
And it was super fascinating. But it was a young company.
I think it was like, you know, acouple of years, I don't know
(24:54):
how old it was, but it was, you know, female founder, but still
in that early startup upstage. So I was, it was interesting,
but the, there wasn't a depth ofinsight in that example there.
Whereas the, the baked goods, you know, they've got 300,000
followers in their, in their community and that's what
(25:15):
they're about. But I think I, I went into their
thinking, Oh my God, post purchase, of course, people have
got it all locked down. That's what they do.
They've been selling and it's just such a chaos out there and
so disjointed in the types of different experiences.
Do you know, Alex, out of that report, it said that 64% of the
Australian consumers will not shop from a brand again when
(25:36):
they've had a bad delivery experience.
So it's like the new loyalty as as as the purchase, you know,
and, and I think that's where wefocus so much on getting them to
the to the check out. And really that's that's where
it starts. So I bet yeah, that start like,
you know, 64% that's where customers are at now.
(25:58):
They really expect like this expected delivery just to be
like, you know, what you say is what you do.
And so that's part of the post purchase and it's a big part.
One of the founders said exactlythat.
Over communicate. Don't be shy in communicating.
We talked about e-mail a bit about how that's done.
And again, you're talking about WhatsApp and about how WhatsApp
(26:20):
as a medium for communication isso important.
Yeah, absolutely. It's this Omni channel, that
Channel of mobile communication,how you, how you build.
And I think again, it's about measured, getting it right.
I think some people get it rightor wrong.
Laura, why don't you do your your next one?
OK, I'll, I'll try and make thissuccinct so that I want to talk
(26:43):
a wee bit about the Country Rd group.
So Alex, if you don't know, the Country Rd group is, I mean, I
want to say a heritage suite of brands, but maybe legacy is the
right word. You know, they're
interchangeable and maybe one second or another, but they've
got the Country Rd group have witchery, trainery, Memco
politics and country roads. That's the 555 brands.
(27:08):
There are over a billion dollarsrevenue business, really, really
big one and they have just appointed a new CEO.
So this CEO we love to poach someone from the UK over here.
He was one of the one of the bosses of Debenhams and he's I
think he's literally just started this week.
(27:29):
So now I guess why, why do I want to bring that up when I
think about the country Rd group.
Well, well, let's even talk stats, right?
The latest trades report this the store sales were down by
14%. The business is down.
That's that's pretty massive. If you think about 14% on a
(27:50):
billion dollar business, it's it's, you're just across the
group. But but even more scary, it's
the profit. The profit was down in the last
year or roughly the last year. I'm, I'm not 100% on the dates,
but by 93%. So the, the executive team have
kind of pointed a little bit. It's been heavily discounting,
(28:12):
lots of discounting going on across the group and the high
costs. But really I think there's a lot
more to it. I feel like the brands have
completely lost their way. If you look at if you look at
which the country roads and Trinity, they're kind of lost in
the sea of sameness. And yeah, the new CEO like
(28:35):
pulling it out of the the this kind of issue with the profit.
But I really think that these these brands have a massive
opportunity where they can reinvent themselves.
But it's so I'm I'm kind of putting them on the watch list.
Like that to me is going to be very sad for they're owned by
the parent company. Is, is it Woolworths Holding
from South Africa so that they're owned by parent company?
(28:59):
I got to say as well that they actually had really bad press
last year. Lots of a toxic workplace, lots
of the CEO who was there, who's resigned was investigated.
I think they had to do one of the kind of, you know, get
someone to come in and look at it.
Lots of reports about harassmentof different natures from men
and women. So I think, you know, the one
(29:22):
thing I see with these businesses, and again, this is a
bit of observation, like, you know, when they've got CEO,
obviously there's lots of toxic,there's issues within the
leadership and within the culture of the business.
He's now gone, he resigned and they've got someone new in.
But I think it's like ultimatelywho's the customer, right?
(29:45):
Like your employees are #1 customer and you know, I, I, I
think that's customers are customers, but then customers
are your team. So there's been quite a lot of
issues in that business and it, it must have had an impact on
what we're seeing with the brands and where they're at.
So on a positive, let's try and be positive.
There's new blood coming in. His name's Stephen Cook from
(30:06):
Debenhams. I'd love to see a woman at one
of these bloody businesses at some point.
But anyway, another man from theUK comes over.
I'm really sorry. I'm sorry.
We'll get there when I'm dead. Yeah.
That's my my one. Perfect.
Thank you. Reef all right, to finish off.
I'm going to bring something back closer to home.
(30:27):
We came out of COVID. I work in a bench as you realise
that it's been a big part of my life for a long time.
It's hard to hard to let go. But the thing that happened
after COVID, everyone was so keen to get back together.
That wasn't really about going to a show to buy stuff.
It was just about the going backshow to be back with your peers.
And while that's really, really important, I think as we start
(30:49):
to emerge from that darkness andwe really we've got over the
novelty of face to in real, in real person events.
Again, I think retailers really need to think about the way they
approach events from a professional point of view.
And what I mean by that is they need to come with some intent.
I think they need a framework bywhich they come to an event, you
(31:12):
know, to the way they to the waythey enter the enter the fray,
so to speak. What are the problems they're
trying to solve today, tomorrow,next year?
What are the horizons? What are the mechanisms they
have in place when they make a new discovery that solves
problems in their business that they haven't thought of?
So it's because one of the things that's really clear is it
(31:34):
events do speed up the timeline with with potential partners.
You know, you think about how long it takes you to meet 10
different vendors in your day job and then you go off to an
event and go, oh, shit, I met 10people in in, in an afternoon,
right? So there's that part of it.
And then I mean, and, and I think the ones that are the
(31:56):
retailers that are doing it welland the benchmarks are really
coming with intent, like and sending people in Tiger teams.
We had one, but Laura already mentioned our media today, but
we, we had one large retail group in Australia who would say
to us, we are starting a tender,the tender process at your
(32:16):
event. This is the problem we're trying
to solve. You have two of the vendors in
the space. There are 6.
We need 3 to start a tender process.
Ring the others up and tell themto buy a ticket, right?
So they turn up right one because guess what they get,
they say and they would, they'd say to us, we not only can see
(32:37):
the solutions and have conversations around the
solutions and, and address our problem directly with them.
We actually get to meet the individuals wrapped around the
product. And we get to over the course of
the two or three days, you get to build a personal relationship
with them or not depending if wefeel we can work with them or
not. So it's incredibly valuable.
So for me, one of the things I'dsay to retailers now is that if
(33:04):
you're coming to an event, yes, you're going to be sold to.
That's OK because that's what their job is to do.
That's what they paid their money to be there in terms of
exhibitors and sponsors. But do come with intent, do come
with a plan and do come with some outcomes in mind that you
want to achieve. Because I think for me, you'll,
(33:24):
you will, you will drive the event in a certain way for
yourself, for the organiser, andyou'll get better outcomes for
your business. So I think you know, and that
that that's true to any form. So you know, then you can make,
you're actually coming and you can make demands on the event as
a retailer because you can say, well, I need this, this and
(33:44):
this, this event provided me this and this event didn't
provide me this, but you've actually come in with an
objective lens. So that's A and.
That. And that.
I mean, I've been I've been agency in techs, I've been a a
buyer of space at many of Reefs conferences.
I think we have a bit of a tendency this side of the world.
We maybe sales isn't as it's softer, but then it's still
(34:09):
sales and then we've got the retailers who really don't they
know. So I really just want to move
back to like bring in the sales people who are just going to be
in your face set sell and then the retailer can just say go
away. Not yet.
I think what we've moved into this kind of messy soft middle
(34:29):
and it the the the nature of thepeople in this part of the world
are a little bit less direct like the than the Americans,
right. So it it does feel that we need
to kind of step that game up andjust talk a bit more.
Let's sell. This is a conference.
This is why come we intend say no, say yes, have the meeting.
And I I feel you there. I think, I think everyone who's
(34:53):
yeah, I think hopefully with thenext conference coming up next
month, we'll see a wee bit more to that.
But let's let's. Yeah.
But I think without, I mean youryour conference online retailer,
I think Laura, I think going to that, you know, it's the biggest
e-commerce event in Australia from a trade show point of view.
And, and really there's, there'sa lot of sponsors who put a lot
(35:14):
of money in and they're putting on, they're putting their best
foot forward. So if you're a retailer going to
that show, you've got to take advantage of that moment in
time. If you don't, you're mad, you're
crazy. So, yeah, so it's not one of my
shows, but it's, it's a good show and people, retailers are
turning up. If you're going to spend the
money and spend the time, use the time well, use it well
(35:35):
because these people are puttingtheir best foot forward.
They're giving you everything they've got.
They're giving you all the IP that they can give you.
You can make some pretty deep decisions pretty quickly because
it's all on show. Yeah, I mean, so this isn't a
shameless plug, but one of my largest customers, they probably
will stand one or two in size atEuro shop next year, which only
(35:59):
happens every three years. It's Europe's obviously a part.
Well, anyway, factually it's Europe's largest show.
It's massive. And the reason it's massive it's
because it's everything from fridges to lighting to fixtures
to fittings. The technology, it's like you go
there and fit out your whole retail operations and hence it
only happens every three years. It's in Germany.
(36:21):
But a lot of the work that I'm doing in terms of creating, you
know, in retail, we're so used to talking about the path to
purchase. But as I say, what's your path
to conference? What's your, you know, as
someone who's expoing, how are you building content to the
event through the event and thenpost the event?
And so not only do retailers notthink of it in that, I mean, one
(36:44):
of the beautiful things about NRFUS, which of, you know, 13
years as someone on the stand asa visitor and now as a
commentator. I used to work with, you know,
the innovation team of Target, where they would come, the
scouts would come to the, the Microsoft booth, we would talk
about what innovations that we have.
(37:04):
Then the second day, the, the Target, you know, leadership
will turn up and then you go through them and talk about
that. And I think, you know, people
miss you, Laura, going back to your point about selling, but
for me it's about inspiring. And you know, a lot of people
turn up to sell, absolutely. But how are you going to inspire
(37:25):
apart from the gimmick, right? So yeah, we all love and shop
talk. We were all at Shop Talk Spring,
you know, we saw the the lines of people around booths that
were giving away Stanley Cups orUgg boots or you know, so yes,
that is important from brand recognition.
But what what's the point of having brand recognition if you
(37:47):
haven't, if you're not giving any flavour of what you do, you
know? And so I find, I find there are
so many missed opportunities from retail side and from from
Expo side. And obviously if you want to fix
any of that, feel free to reach it now.
I'm joking. So anyway, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's got it's, it's at the end of the
(38:10):
day, someone is paying and someone has got a, you know,
it's, it's not always, it's not always a free lunch.
But the point is too that no. But the frustrating.
But but yeah, but but the key thing is really is that, you
know, if, if you're not turning up just to to to, you know,
really dig under the skin of a problem you might have or solve
a problem or look at or discovernew things that can make a big
(38:33):
step change in your business. Why are you there?
Well, look, retail tech show in London, right, has gone again
from from strength to strength. This year they were at the
Excel, which was, I don't know, 5.
They've gone from basically 3000to 5000.
The numbers keep growing. It's a free show.
I think it's probably the UK's largest retail show.
And I was talking to one of the exhibitors and, you know, they
(38:56):
were complaining, oh, this is soexpensive.
We're not getting a return on our investment.
And I said, well, what, what, what's the path to conference
and what's the path through conference?
Yeah, but we're here. And it was a really big stand.
And I was like, well, just beinghere is not enough.
What you know, how how are you looking at it from the
retailer's perspective? Those poor guys have got 100
(39:19):
other you's here. What is that experience that
you're going to give them apart from having this beautiful
stand? And they were like, OK, all
right. And because I think a lot of
people just sort of turn up and expect it to, you know, the
sales to follow. But anyway, any closing vote,
any course, closing comments, Sorry, this is episode 101.
(39:44):
So happy birthday or whatever they do.
It's not episode 101 of Five Things Friday, it's episode 7,
but. Happy birthday, Alex.
Yeah. It's anyway episode 101, so
really happy with that. Congratulations.
Thank you. Any closing thoughts before we
close? Not for me.
(40:06):
I'm looking forward to next week.
I've already know what I'm goingto talk about, so that's going.
To be, I think we just need to get better at not talking so
much. We've.
Set A We've set a record for time today.
It's been good. I just find it's long, but we're
getting better. We're getting into our if we
(40:26):
were critique. I felt this was probably one of
our best shows yet. And on that bombshell, thank you
so much for listening. Thank you.
Thank you, Alex. Thank you, Laura.
OK, bye.
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