Retail evolves faster than it’s ever moved. This week Alex, Ryf, and Laura unpack five forces reshaping the industry—and the brands proving each point.
Asia’s five-element advantage – Emotional value, community identity, nighttime escapes, immersive art, smart-health choices. Gentle Monster, LVMH, Hermès, Burberry, and Lefty’s show why experience beats merchandise.
Australia’s IT breakout moment – A fresh fiscal year releases frozen budgets, pushing tech projects back to the top of the agenda. Vendors slow to commit risk falling behind.
The delivery revolution – Apple clocks an eight-minute iPhone drop in Mumbai. Quick-commerce rivals from India to the Middle East chase sub-15-minute promises; Deliveroo decides where speed does (and doesn’t) matter.
Meta’s new AI ad levers – Value Optimisation, Incremental Attribution, and Value Rules let marketers dial in a conversion rate and let algorithms hunt for it, squeezing agency middlemen in the process.
The hybrid consumer – Shoppers move fluidly between phone, store, and social feed. Retailers run risk—not channels—when they still treat ecommerce, physical, and media as separate fiefdoms.
Mentioned brands: Apple • Amazon • Deliveroo • Gentle Monster • Lefty’s • Primark • LVMH / Louis Vuitton • Hermès • Burberry • Inditex • Mango • Gap • Westfield.
Guest bios
Alex – Host of The Retail Podcast, known for distilling global trends into actionable strategy.
Ryf Quail – Managing Director, NRF APAC; guides brands across Asia-Pacific on future-proof retail models.
Laura Doonin – Tech advisor specialising in digital transformation and omnichannel acceleration.
00:00 Intro – Welcome to Five Things Friday
02:00 Topic 1 – Asia’s five-element edge (Gentle Monster, LVMH, Hermès, Burberry, Lefty’s)
14:30 Topic 2 – Australia’s IT spend rebound
23:00 Topic 3 – Delivery revolution: Apple’s 8-minute iPhone, Deliveroo & quick commerce
33:50 Topic 4 – Meta’s AI ad toolkit and what it means for agencies
Call to action
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Five ThingsFriday and you will be listening
to this on a Friday hopefully ora Monday or Saturday and Sunday.
That's all good. I am happy because we are all in
the same place virtually that isand my lovely Co hosts are with
me. So why don't we just do a quick
round table to introduce ourselves and then we'll dive
straight into the Five Things Friday.
(00:22):
Let's go, Laura. Hi, I'm Laura, Scottish living
in Sydney and I am a technology advisor to some of the biggest
brands in this part of the world.
Thank you, Laura. Hi.
I'm Ruth Quell. You've seen me before.
I am the MD of NRF Retails Big Show Asia Pacific.
I normally don't look like this.This is the week after a show,
(00:44):
so I've just dressed down a bit.I hope you can accommodate me,
but it's a podcast, so hopefullyyou're not listening and looking
at me. Yeah, you're you're, you're
normally it's on a mobile phone,so don't worry, there's that
little thumbnail of an image. The smaller image of me the
better I would say. I forgot to ask, what CC is your
bike? Which one?
I have two. I have a Ducati Monster 800 and
(01:06):
I have a Ducati Desert X. It's a 900.
So yeah, yeah, it's 900. That's that's that's a good
number. Yeah, there's something about
these Australian men. They love their power, whatever
it is. But we did sort.
Cars probably, we probably they're a Dick Caddy so they
can't be classed as bogan toys, but they're you know, they're
OK. Laura, do you have?
A power vehicle of any description.
(01:28):
No, no, I'm very confident in myown skin.
Don't need. That oh in addition.
We are. And we are so that's so good.
I I, I, I'm OK. I have something.
You'd be law with that. Let me.
Introduce the first topic. So one of the things I want to
share is what what I feel sets Chinese or retailers in Asia
(01:50):
apart or why they are so far ahead.
So many times we think that they're ahead because of
technology. And I think last year when I had
my mission out there for a couple of clients that we took
out there, I tried to bring backand sort of re emphasise the
point that it's not just technology.
Technology is taken care of by two or three major players out
(02:13):
there. So there are platform players
that are enabling retailers, butthere are these core elements.
And at the time I couldn't sort of sorry, I went through my own
version of this, but this is theShanghai commerce for foreign
companies coming to do business in Shanghai's sort of how do you
attract and work with Gen Z in the region.
(02:35):
And the reason why I think this is just phenomenal is these are
the five elements of the future of retail.
And I'll and I'll go through them one by one really quickly
and then we'll, we'll quickly goon to the the next one.
Emotional value, how you are connecting is a bit of a no
brainer. Also, of course, you want to
create emotion, whether this advertising customer journey,
(02:58):
but how do you create emotion inthe store?
And I think I've said this before, say again, one of the
ways that they were creating emotion in the store is by
treating you like family, therefore giving you a space to
hang out, whether that's a coffee or a drink or or some
form of experience that allows you to sort of dwell without
(03:19):
purchase. Second one, community identity.
So it's all related to the firstone niche interest, whether it's
sustainability, whether it's sports, outdoors, fashion,
beauty, any subcategory of retail in Shanghai, retailers
are providing those niche micro connections that allow you to
(03:42):
connect with the brand in a deeper and more meaningful way.
Again, you can see this sort of layering on one layers on top of
the the other and a, a sort of A1 that takes it outside of just
purchasing. Are these things called
nighttime escapes. So how do you then take your
brand into the world, right? Your, your physical store,
(04:05):
fantastic. It's your real estate, your
e-commerce store, your digital space.
But how do those two things cometogether to create an experience
outside of operating hours? And there's a couple of
actually, I think there's one example here that I'll get to
and we can talk to immersive art.
We've seen countless, if you've not seen gentle monster, who
(04:28):
have won countless awards for the best in store experiences.
Originally they started off withthese sorts of monsters that
were robots that were animated in store that people would, you
know, it's the Instagrammable shop.
It is the pinnacle Instagrammable shop.
But what is now emerging is yes.And again, this goes back to
(04:52):
actually Doug Stevens talked about this in term, I don't
know, seven years ago when he was saying retailers must stop
using this sort of old world of return on square footage.
It's return on experience. That store may lose money.
And you know, in Shanghai, the gentle monster store, I'm pretty
sure the return on investment onsquare footage doesn't pay off,
(05:16):
but return on investment when you look at marketing money that
they're saving by creating theseInstagram moments in store is
phenomenal. And then the ultimate smart
health choices. How do you bring well-being this
new generation? And this is all about Gen Z and
how you connect with Gen Z are absolutely tuned into alcohol
(05:37):
free parties, looking after yourself, all of the elements
that go round with that and whatthat looks like, whether it's
sport, whether it's food, whether it's clothing, whether
it's your impact, your footprintthat you're having.
How do retailers bring that intothis?
And again, this is Shanghai and I and I and I feel that if you
put all of these five things together, this is the epitome of
(06:00):
what brilliant retail looks likeright now in the environment.
And to give you sort of, you know, some examples they've got
here is the pop up, the Hirono and, and again, when I was there
last year and again in Europe, we're seeing an explosion of
luxury pop ups. And, and you know why?
Because luxury has to stand out.If you know, an LVMH bag looks
(06:24):
the same as an Hermes bag that looks the same as a, a Burberry
bag, the experience will not be the same.
And it's that emotional connection that luxury is
definitely going for. But this is not, and I again
have spoken this as spoken aboutthis before, we see this at
value retail, you know, lefties in Spain similar to Primark
(06:47):
going above and beyond and creating a pop up that is 100%
could be the same as a a luxury experience pop up.
So anyway, that's my first one. Hope it helps.
Reef will be over to you next. I will.
Sorry, Laura. I might add, can I just add a
little bit on to that to Gen Z because what we've, what we've
seen was one, it was a big topicfor NRF as well this year in
(07:09):
AIPAC. And one of the things we saw is
this generation, because they'reso connected from a shopping
point of view, from a political point of view, they almost
research digitally to avoid a bit of buyer's remorse.
You know, So in terms of you look at the transformation
happening in political landscapes, you look at, you
(07:29):
look at when their, their brand,it's really eroding brand
loyalty a lot for this this generation because they, they
feel this obligation to researchbecause the information's so
readily accessible and because it's so readily accessible, you
know, that fuels this desire. So, you know, we see niche
brands popping up really quicklybecause they, they have the
(07:51):
ability to find their way into people's feeds and do a really
good job. And I think to me, when you're
talking about this generation, the ability to, you know,
research before purchase and because they're just so good at
it, yeah, you don't present yourself in a way that is
researchable, right, In terms ofthe brand or product, then you
find, you know, that you that you miss out.
(08:14):
And that might be in the US. Basically, you know, you're
doing your research online and you're going to store to fulfil
or to get test touch, feel. And then it just leads into such
a horrible experience because you can't do the same things
that you can online. And again, I think these are
some of the small gotchas for, for retailers that predominantly
(08:37):
you think, of course, everythingthat we have online, you can
come and touch and feel in store.
And so many times that's not thecase.
And I think, and I think to the point this generation care maybe
maybe the older generation, you know, they, they understand that
this generation really. Cares, but we're brand loyal
we're brand loyal you know we'rewe stick we find a brand or a
political party or and stick with them.
(08:58):
These guys don't yeah you know they're they're they're thirst
for information and make decisions and change.
Preference is nothing like we are.
That's the thing, I think. Yeah, and, and the community
identity, which was #2 on the list that I shared, you know,
niche interests, how they, they go into like obviously in a, in
a bigger scale, you know, I, I love motorbikes or I love cars,
(09:21):
but more specifically themes such as sustainability or sports
or health or 0 alcohol. Again, things that would never
be considered in other generations.
This generation are leading withwhich is phenomenal.
Yeah, it's incredible, Laura. Lots I could say, but I'll I
think you guys said it really quite well.
I love that point about it's about the loyalty and the
(09:42):
transparency. The loyalty for new customers is
different, but on point number, I guess #2 I'll take #2 it might
not sound that sexy or exciting,but what I'm definitely seeing
in this part of the world is I felt the last three to six
months we've kind of had like a sabbatical.
Nobody's been buying tech. There's been no big projects
(10:03):
kicking off. Everything's went a bit quiet,
especially from everyone I'm speaking to.
And I feel that's kind of turneda corner.
It might be driven by we're coming to the end of this
financial year and with everyonefirming up their budgets for the
next financial year, it starts in the 1st of July.
I think that's definitely a playinto it.
But what I'm hearing is a lot ofthese projects have maybe been
(10:25):
put on hold, are starting to getthe green light, get signed off
some technology pieces. Some people are signing up with
some of the bigger platforms andwe're starting to get a wee bit
of momentum. And I think this is it's a
really interesting one as everyone starts to talk AI do
less with more, especially this part of the world, Alex, we can
I get sometimes forgotten and itit's just a reminder of some of
(10:48):
these bigger texts. It's known the behaviours in
this part of the world, and Asia's a bit different as well.
But Australia, New Zealand, it'sknown how they know about.
They're thinking about buying tech is probably something I
feel is more critical than ever that we start to kind of almost
educate other vendors, whatever they are in the world about
(11:10):
South. And I don't know, Reef, I know
that from your show, you might have seen a little bit of this
happen, like, yeah. Yeah, I think it's been, I think
there's, we've had a little bit of obviously global geopolitics
has happened as we all we're allfamiliar with.
We don't need to dwell on that. But I think, I think to your
point, Laura, I think what's what that the point you're
making. I think as things have calmed
(11:30):
and new financial years on the horizon, the projects are
surfacing. And I think for the big US
exhibitors, we saw a few of thempull back a lot and very late
before the show. And for us that's, you know,
there's this view that Asia Pacific is homogeneous and it's
definitely not Australia and NewZealand is not Singapore, which
(11:52):
is not China. They are very, very different.
And for me, as the markets started to come and new
financial users around the corner, I think you're right.
I think we're going to see a lotmore big projects get signed
off. And those companies that have
pulled back will probably at their own peril because I think
you're right, I think the markets now got comfortable with
(12:15):
a little bit of uncertainty. And also you can see setting
budgets, which means that they're setting proper budgets
for projects in the new financial year or in the back
half of this year. And I think that we're going to
see a lot of development going forward.
Yeah. Yeah, I think look, it's for me,
it's the disrupt will be disrupted.
It's always been the case when in in the times of hardship, in
(12:39):
the times of economic slowdown, so many businesses, not just
retailers, make the mistake of retrenching and then realising
that they've lost a couple of points to market share or they
have to double invest to catch up because everyone else kept
going. And I think the China market's
not, not going to not going to stop.
It may cool down or it may slow down, but it won't stop pushing.
(13:01):
Ahead and it'll be a redirectionof their supply.
So we won't see the supply goingto North America, but it's going
to go everywhere else. And you know, and we're going to
for the way, you know, we're theway that's that's playing out,
we're going to see a lot of Chinese goods all over the rest
of the world and there's plenty of market to sell to for the
Chinese. So I don't think that's going to
(13:22):
be a problem. It's just a redirection of
supply. Yeah, Rick, what's your?
What's your? Give us one of your.
Ones, I think for me that what the one thing that really popped
at this year's show is really about the delivery revolution.
And I've talked about this before and I think it's just
mind blowing. So when Apple launched a new
iPhone, I think iPhone 14 in, inin the major cities in India,
(13:45):
from ordering online to a rival on person's desk in their office
was 8 minutes. So it's called quick commerce,
right. So this works in in high density
cities where you've got a lot ofdistribution points and cheap
labour. Yeah, yeah.
But what through this journey now everything in e-commerce in
(14:06):
an urban area in India, the moremost dominant form of delivery
is quick commerce. And that means delivery within
10 to 15 minutes from order. And the thing that's coming out
of that, which is really important, is that this is not a
free service. This is paid for by the
consumer. So the retailer is making money
not only on the good they're selling, but also on the
(14:29):
fulfilment, on the delivery of the products, right?
Because people are paying for the service.
We had big baskets speak in, in,in Singapore last week and they
are a grocer, right? And they have on their app.
And the thing that one of the things they have on the app that
has massive impact is for every item on the on the app, it is
delivery time, whether it's a piece of broccoli or, you know,
(14:53):
or, you know, a frying pan, you know, in a in a grocery Mart, in
a grocery shopping context. So it's, you know, powerful
stuff. And I think that that's we've
taken that from India. So how does that manifest in
other markets? You know, how do we see that
playing out? You know, a market like
Australia, which is not a lot ofpeople in a big expanse of land,
how does that play out? What are people prepared to pay
(15:15):
for? Yeah.
Then you look at somewhere like,you know, the Philippines, which
is, you know, I think maybe 1700islands.
So it's planes, trains and automobiles to get goods to
people. You know, it's different again.
So how does this, how does this play out?
Because people are now going, well, I'm, I'm prepared to pay
to have that item in my hand in 30 minutes.
(15:37):
You know, we're talking about one of the things that went just
mind blowing was I could go online, I could buy a fridge, I
could do the finance to get it approved and have it plumbed
into my kitchen in 90 minutes. People are paying for that.
That's yeah, it's not, they're not paying, they're not paying
more for the good. They're paying for the service
of having that delivered in 3090minutes and done.
(15:58):
Yeah, I remember interviewing. I'm sorry.
Go on. Yeah, sorry.
There you go, You go. Yes, I remember interviewing
someone from Deliveroo and in the UKI was saying, is there a
need to go beyond 30 minutes, you know, like quick commerce to
get to 15 minutes? And is that a focus for them?
And you know, I think it's culturally probably not in the
(16:20):
UK, but interestingly enough, everywhere else and Middle East,
India, China and and other regions, they're 100% pushing
forward to, you know, 15 minutesor instant, instant. 100% and
even and the key points to take away from this is 1, there's a
perception pace. So if you say that the broccoli
(16:41):
can arrive in 9 minutes, that makes it more attractive to the
consumer rather than 70, right? Yeah.
And the second thing is that you're not changing your
business model. The consumer is prepared to pay.
Yeah. So rather than thinking I'm
going to have to wear this cost to compete, no, it's not that.
It's the consumer saying I couldrun my existing business model,
(17:03):
I can evolve my fulfilment engine, if you will.
Yeah, paid for service. I got you.
That's Laura. I you know what, even on like
when you're talking there, it's,it's interesting because I think
like, like you said, in some cities and dense populated, they
want it now that in the office they want it, but it kind of
leads back to this whole thing around it's a bit choice, right?
(17:25):
And it's about whether like whenI look on Amazon the UK by I
want to look at what I want to philtre by who gives it gift
wrapped. So it's all about making the
decisions that work for you. So I think I'm really
interesting to see how AAI starts to personalise more
because you know, if I want it in an hour, what gives me in an
(17:46):
hour? What can I get in an hour?
So it's really a bit curating things depending on people's
individual needs. So the delivery time is one
piece, but if you think about it, it can be so much more
right? Who get you?
Could add so many more dimensions, so many more
dimensions to the product. And then, and then for me, we're
in a in a marketplace where retailers are struggling to make
money by selling goods. These could be other mechanisms
(18:09):
by which they augment their margins.
Right #4 For me, I was actually talking to one of my good
friends, her name is Sam Law, she's a digital marketer and
what? But you know, but she we were
talking about Meta. So something that I think is
super interesting is that meta are rolling out three new tools.
(18:30):
One is called value optimization, then the other one
is incremental attribution, and then the other one is value
rules. And basically in a nutshell,
it's you're going to have the ability to set some rules and it
could be like your conversion rate what it is from a row as
perspective to meta. And then you're allowing meta to
(18:53):
do the creative to just get you the return for it's, it's an
interesting concept. It's really driven by AI, of
course. And it's, I think a lot of
people who are starting to read up on it.
I don't think it's talked about as much, but it's interesting
because we don't know what this will mean, right?
Like are we going to say, for example, the brand discovery is
(19:15):
really changing and this and howhow are things going to surface,
right? Like if you're putting one key
event, if you're setting the rules and then you're allowing
the platform to decide how they display it?
What we going to have click frenzy after payday?
Are we going to have banners on them?
Are we not? How do you keep that brand
identity that a lot of retailershave actually took a lot of like
(19:37):
they've thought that's been suchsomething really important that
they kind of curtail and keep for themselves that now with
these rules, this AI rules is gone.
It's going to make it a lot moregeneric.
Yes. So I'm really interested to see
how that plays out. It kind of also leads into this
whole piece about, you know, guys, I've came from agency.
(19:58):
I kind of constantly I'm lookingat what does this mean for a lot
of the partners that we work with?
You know, I definitely believe that agencies and strategic
partnerships is critical. But I also see a lot of the
things that you've maybe relied on these agency partners for,
you start to question, is it no time to start taking some of
(20:19):
these things back in house? So yeah, so the meta piece that
AI tools and how you can literally just ask for a
conversion rate of 3% and let them decide who, what and where
as it's pretty cool but also a little bit scary.
Yeah, I think, I think the tension, the tension there
(20:39):
really though is attribution, right.
And that and then if you think about, you know, in this
environment, if you're if you say it's almost taking everyone
retailer to a commodity moment where the AI just optimises it
with an inch of its life creatively channel time, the
whole lot audience. And I think from the tension.
(20:59):
And then for the agency, Laura, is that they agency moves,
continues to move away from thatcommodity space, you know, and,
you know, I think if we're all being optimised to into our
life, how does a brand become a brand that stands out because
everyone is not Teflon? Yeah.
What the agency's job, I reckon in many cases in the future is
(21:20):
going to be helping the consumerstop and pause.
How does it how does it make thebrand a bit grippy rather than
making it so easy? Yeah, it's in the journey.
Well, reef, you know as well andAlex as well, like from where
you're at in the world and wherewe're at.
The one thing as well is like you think about the likes of
Sheen and Tina who don't seem tohave a problem with supply.
(21:41):
Sometimes you look at these rules and you go, Oh my God,
we're just feeding the beast right.
Like like it almost as I guess it always has been.
Whoever has got the budget to keep spending if they're getting
the run well wet. So it's, I do kind of always
think back to like Sheen with the rules with America.
What does that mean? They're going to be investing
(22:02):
more in markets are buying from them and I mean 1.2 billion in
sales last year in Australia. Yeah.
So we're going to see more more if Sheen hit the market.
And if Sheen and team who aren'tgoing into the States, they're
going to have even more supply for Australia, which means based
if they're building at a robust model and with unlimited supply
(22:22):
for the Australian market, you know, how much more money can
they spend in advertising? Yeah, I think the interesting
thing is that how long before they go into physical stores,
you know, because they've done pop ups.
They're they're sort of they've done pop ups in different cities
around the world and they've also got designed like Sheeny's
got different designers in different parts of the world.
I did it. I did an event with one of their
(22:44):
designers in Chicago and it was so obvious I could how long
before this model then starts taking the on the indetexes, the
mangoes that the gaps of this world, you know, upscale the
quality of the product, go into physical and then beat on price.
But reef, what's your? I think, I think mine's for
(23:04):
building from laws. Actually, my topic is really
around and I was a good friend of mine at Microsoft, Mr Damian
Villeroi, who leads Microsoft, the region.
He was very passionate about this.
And when I dug into it a bit deeper, it sort of linked it
ladders up to the some of the stuff that Laura's talking about
with, with with Meta, it very much links to the Gen Z consumer
or Gen Z consumer and that's thehybrid consumer and this
(23:27):
consumer for the first time, I think retailers are it's really
hitting home that that, that they need to stop worrying about
discrete channels. And I'll give you an example,
back in the day I worked and launched a major banks Internet
banking in Australia. And we launched the Internet
website and the bank had always been prescriptive.
(23:47):
If you've got this home loan, you have this credit card and
you've got this deposit account like, and all of a sudden the
Internet democratised the product suite, which meant the
consumer bought the products they wanted to buy.
And the guys in the bank and theproduct guys are going, they're
just brains are exploding because they couldn't understand
why they were. Consumers are grouping products
together because they went appropriate as they saw the
(24:09):
world, but the consumer saw things differently.
And I think that we're seeing that now in channel.
And what I mean by that is, is that, you know, a consumer now
and a retailer now has to look at the world out and not through
discrete channels anymore. The consumer really, and Gen Z
particularly, really walk into astore and want the experience
(24:29):
wrapped. You know, how am I recognised,
how am I acknowledged, How is the product that I want
presented to me? Because you know about me, you
know, all those things and that can't be done just only in
physical and it can't be done only in digital.
And that piece is really challenging.
And the AI piece takes us towards this Teflon approach,
(24:52):
right? But then it's about the tension
back to the agency piece about how do I at one point in the
journey make the consumer pause and enjoy a little brand
experience along the way? You know, so this hybrid
consumer is, is really probably even they probably even forget
where the transaction's occurring that there's a there's
not yeah, there's this this sense that that, you know, they
(25:14):
would, they'll they'll journey through the journey.
And and so therefore, if we're talking about Facebook's
modelling and or Meta Meta's modelling and running AI through
the whole thing in the dynamic creative, you know, is that
being done discreetly for a digital channel?
Are we addressing the hybrid consumer through this process?
You know, because you're phones with you all the time and Meta's
channels, the is the mobile right.
(25:36):
So he's Meta's advertising in Geo tone.
So when I'm in a Maya or when I'm in a, you know, where I'm in
a fair price in Singapore or whether I'm in a Family Mart in
Tokyo, like is, is that being recognised because they're all
big meta markets, right? And is that all linking
together? You know, how, how, how is the
AI learning through that process?
Because this consumer now is is not locked to a channel.
(25:59):
If not locked to and that they are, there are a lot 2 of the
outcome they're looking to achieve.
Yeah, Yeah, it's so a thing as well.
And I know that Alex. Well, the three of us were at
shop talk in Vegas, but one of the biggest things it was about
the the typical funnel is, is it's completely it's gone the
the the funnel of our shop is gone.
(26:20):
People are coming in whatever way they want and that's just
how it has has to be now. So the attribution is, we still
don't really have a great way tomeasure attribution, but I do
think we're getting a little bitmore sophisticated with with how
we get there. But yeah, the the funnel is is
broken, yeah. Yeah, sorry, Alex.
(26:40):
If you look at categories like, yeah, so spend some time with
LLVMH in the lead up for the show with a couple of their
brands and they're still so invested in physical retail, but
the way they're wrapping those experiences is unique to the
category. You know, if you're, I mean, I
went to the the launch of Live A, which is the Spanish handbag
(27:01):
brand that's owned by LVMH in Sydney.
They have their marquee store inPick St in Westfield and it's
really cool, really neat experience.
I mean, I'm not into not into the handbag so much, but the lot
of the jackets were nice. But I'm a bit old for it, I
think. But the point is that, you know,
the experience was magical, right?
So, but but they're still wrapping the whole thing.
(27:23):
You know, the LV match has got to play in blockchain.
They've got to play in all thesedigital things that are wrapping
around it. So they know how they're
augmenting, you know, they know how they're the experience.
So the the big trend that's sortof emerging here is the pop up
and from luxury and the experience wars that are
happening right now is because, yeah, that handbag, that jacket
(27:48):
that is costing you that is, that is expensive and is premium
can now be copied. But what cannot be copied is the
experience. So what you're highlighting
there Reef is a trend that luxury companies are moving
towards in creating pop up experiences that provide this
(28:08):
premiumisation of experience that then connects you with that
brand to make you feel, you knowwhat, man, that that felt really
special, you know, and that's like, you know, you go to the
airport and, and you in the, in the premium lounge, you've got
an LVMHA Louis Vuitton Cafe and it and really blew my mind that
there were so many of these little sort of premium brands
(28:32):
with gastronomic experiences. And that's in this world,
specifically in Asia, if technology can do so much more
or replicas or coffees or Me too's experience then becomes
the true frontier of of retail and.
(28:52):
Laura, so go. But you know, Alex, even what
you said, right, luxury definitely leads the way right
with us. But when we think even locally,
culture kings, Simon Beard has been taught him a bit.
He's been doing this for 15 years.
Like he's been all about. He's got like in one of his shop
stores, he's got the Barber shop, then he's got another
(29:13):
store, they've got the basketball and he he was begging
and celebrities, even Sheen, Sheen, that is, you could call
it cheap tat, right? Like, I mean, hopefully I need
the can I get sued for saying that?
And yeah, but there when you shop on their site, it doesn't
matter what you see. There's a lot of people shopping
on it. It's an experience.
(29:34):
So, so luxury lead the way and they do it.
I guess they've they've got the biggest budgets and more people
around them. But I think that's experiential
and what we're seeing even that relating back, Alex, to your
point about that, the generationgeneration said, yeah, it's it's
not just like sustainability andvalues, it's transparency, it's
(29:56):
experience and all the differentlevels of the shopping tier.
So yeah, I'm definitely seeing luxury leads, but I just think
every single retailer has to have some kind of form of
experience, whether they're selling $10 T-shirts or, you
know, $10,000 handbags. That's the bit and that's sorry.
That was the bit that I was going to say.
(30:18):
The bit that I was going to say is that that's the bit that the
agency has a role and that's thebit that we create pause with
the brand and moments with the brand.
You know, that's the Louis Vuitton store in the Doha
airport with the little accent on the coffee or whatever it is,
you know, which is just so LouisVuitton.
That's the magical moment. Whereas we're talking about
(30:39):
Meta, they're creating Teflon. It's a transaction.
Yeah. You know, so all of a sudden in
this conversation you can see where the agency role is going
to take, you know, and then the magic it could be, could become.
Yeah, my, my, my prediction for the future is there'll be some
sort of dopamine score per transaction or customer journey.
(30:59):
What of notion, right? It's how much mean, how much
emotion can I get you to feel whether you're shopping luxury
or whether you're shopping value.
And, and here's the thing. I know people and the, the, the
the research shows this. If you shop value, you still get
that same dopamine kick as someone who's buying a $10,000
(31:20):
back because that to you is so emotionally important and right.
Oh, and right now is. It.
Yeah, it. Was passionate, yeah.
And this is where we take over Laura and things get messy.
OK, let's get the whiskey. That's right.
Let's go. We're back-to-back to back to
2022 mid COVID. Actually, was that not?
(31:41):
He's left. He's even left the chair.
No, he's back now. Did you fall off it there?
I'm having technology problems left right and centre.
Honestly there's a 10,000 LB camera and it's switching off.
But anyway, with that one look, have we covered?
All the points. Yeah, I think we have.
You had a good time. You can't you can't edit that
(32:03):
bit out now, Alex. I don't don't do that.
That's got that's. Oh yeah, Audie was hurt.
Actually what you said was really great though.
And then you just, it was so good, that dopamine piece.
So yeah. That that sounds amazing.
That the the, the so just to give you the trend.
So shopping centres and environments where people are
(32:24):
collective. So take theme parks right there.
That that feeling is what over here and a lot of new shopping
centres are now what I'm coiningas dopamine villages.
What does that mean? It means shopping centres,
especially in the US, are so dead and boring.
You see them bringing and you were saying like the the, the
guy with the store that bought abasketball thing or a thing
(32:47):
experienced that saw no, they'rebringing in electric go karting
water experiences. You're talking about Southeast
Asia like you talk about the mall experience in Thailand on
in Asia. You're, it's banging on, you're
bang on that dopamine here, you know?
That's what's the saviour of physical shopping centres
(33:10):
because they've all been in decline.
Westfield has been suffering. And the reason I know this, I
was at Mappick. Mappick is the industries like
real estate show that happens in.
It's a beautiful show in Cairns.It's very small, very boutique,
very lovely, and you know one who sells 2 shopping centres,
(33:30):
take their things there. So what you end up there, you
see there was like a surf machine, as I said, go Kart,
electric, go karts, because number one, families want to do
things together #2 you need thatexcitement that it used to be
anchor tenants. They used to call them anchor
tenants in retail, but now it's anchor experiences.
What are those experiences? I reckon because I imagine this.
(33:53):
I mean, as a Westerner, I can't talk as as being from Southeast
Asia, but imagine doing a grocery shop and having a little
bit of go Kart action as well. And in the same visit with your
mum and dad, That'd be as my blowing as a kid you'd want to
go shopping, you know, and that would make it, that would make a
day of it both functionally and experientially, you know.
So that's pretty neat. Yeah, instead of going for two
(34:16):
hours, you go for four hours on a Saturday.
Let's get, you know, get some nice food and and there's,
there's loads of like these multi activity environments for
like under 10s where mum and dadcould leave the, the kid there
for an hour or so and go off anddo some.
So you know the especially in the shopping centre industry,
(34:36):
they know that they need to transform to to stay relevant.
Exactly. Wow, that's really cool.
That's a really like that's. Why I'm inside.
Well, until next week. Thank you so much, Reef.
Thank you so much, Nora. I heard you guys are going to go
and drink whiskey together as itwas, Yes.
We Laura used to have a little show called Whiskey and
Commerce. I tried to get on it every week
(34:58):
because I involved me drinking whiskey.
So that was a would be. She have good quality whiskey.
We'll need we'll need to take that episode down because me and
Reef got quite drunk on whiskey so.
Yeah, no, I'm sorry. I'm with the kids.
Our our group activity can be going for a run, a walk, no
whiskey drinking on on this show.
We're going to be doing healthier to it's ease.
(35:19):
Like, I don't know. Yeah.
You could make, you could make your favourite, you know, Berry
shake or something like that, you know.
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, you.
Can. Shake that was pre COVID when
people were, you know, were morefun.
Yeah, OK. We have that.
Thank you so much, Rick. Thank you so much, Laura.
Until next. Week.
Thank you. Bye.
Hello and welcome to Five ThingsFriday and you will be listening
to this on a Friday hopefully ora Monday or Saturday and Sunday.
That's all good. I am happy because we are all in
the same place virtually that isand my lovely Co hosts are with
me. So why don't we just do a quick
round table to introduce ourselves and then we'll dive
straight into the Five Things Friday.
(00:22):
Let's go, Laura. Hi, I'm Laura, Scottish living
in Sydney and I am a technology advisor to some of the biggest
brands in this part of the world.
Thank you, Laura. Hi.
I'm Ruth Quell. You've seen me before.
I am the MD of NRF Retails Big Show Asia Pacific.
I normally don't look like this.This is the week after a show,
(00:44):
so I've just dressed down a bit.I hope you can accommodate me,
but it's a podcast, so hopefullyyou're not listening and looking
at me. Yeah, you're you're, you're
normally it's on a mobile phone,so don't worry, there's that
little thumbnail of an image. The smaller image of me the
better I would say. I forgot to ask, what CC is your
bike? Which one?
I have two. I have a Ducati Monster 800 and
(01:06):
I have a Ducati Desert X. It's a 900.
So yeah, yeah, it's 900. That's that's that's a good
number. Yeah, there's something about
these Australian men. They love their power, whatever
it is. But we did sort.
Cars probably, we probably they're a Dick Caddy so they
can't be classed as bogan toys, but they're you know, they're
OK. Laura, do you have?
A power vehicle of any description.
(01:28):
No, no, I'm very confident in myown skin.
Don't need. That oh in addition.
We are. And we are so that's so good.
I I, I, I'm OK. I have something.
You'd be law with that. Let me.
Introduce the first topic. So one of the things I want to
share is what what I feel sets Chinese or retailers in Asia
(01:50):
apart or why they are so far ahead.
So many times we think that they're ahead because of
technology. And I think last year when I had
my mission out there for a couple of clients that we took
out there, I tried to bring backand sort of re emphasise the
point that it's not just technology.
Technology is taken care of by two or three major players out
(02:13):
there. So there are platform players
that are enabling retailers, butthere are these core elements.
And at the time I couldn't sort of sorry, I went through my own
version of this, but this is theShanghai commerce for foreign
companies coming to do business in Shanghai's sort of how do you
attract and work with Gen Z in the region.
(02:35):
And the reason why I think this is just phenomenal is these are
the five elements of the future of retail.
And I'll and I'll go through them one by one really quickly
and then we'll, we'll quickly goon to the the next one.
Emotional value, how you are connecting is a bit of a no
brainer. Also, of course, you want to
create emotion, whether this advertising customer journey,
(02:58):
but how do you create emotion inthe store?
And I think I've said this before, say again, one of the
ways that they were creating emotion in the store is by
treating you like family, therefore giving you a space to
hang out, whether that's a coffee or a drink or or some
form of experience that allows you to sort of dwell without
(03:19):
purchase. Second one, community identity.
So it's all related to the firstone niche interest, whether it's
sustainability, whether it's sports, outdoors, fashion,
beauty, any subcategory of retail in Shanghai, retailers
are providing those niche micro connections that allow you to
(03:42):
connect with the brand in a deeper and more meaningful way.
Again, you can see this sort of layering on one layers on top of
the the other and a, a sort of A1 that takes it outside of just
purchasing. Are these things called
nighttime escapes. So how do you then take your
brand into the world, right? Your, your physical store,
(04:05):
fantastic. It's your real estate, your
e-commerce store, your digital space.
But how do those two things cometogether to create an experience
outside of operating hours? And there's a couple of
actually, I think there's one example here that I'll get to
and we can talk to immersive art.
We've seen countless, if you've not seen gentle monster, who
(04:28):
have won countless awards for the best in store experiences.
Originally they started off withthese sorts of monsters that
were robots that were animated in store that people would, you
know, it's the Instagrammable shop.
It is the pinnacle Instagrammable shop.
But what is now emerging is yes.And again, this goes back to
(04:52):
actually Doug Stevens talked about this in term, I don't
know, seven years ago when he was saying retailers must stop
using this sort of old world of return on square footage.
It's return on experience. That store may lose money.
And you know, in Shanghai, the gentle monster store, I'm pretty
sure the return on investment onsquare footage doesn't pay off,
(05:16):
but return on investment when you look at marketing money that
they're saving by creating theseInstagram moments in store is
phenomenal. And then the ultimate smart
health choices. How do you bring well-being this
new generation? And this is all about Gen Z and
how you connect with Gen Z are absolutely tuned into alcohol
(05:37):
free parties, looking after yourself, all of the elements
that go round with that and whatthat looks like, whether it's
sport, whether it's food, whether it's clothing, whether
it's your impact, your footprintthat you're having.
How do retailers bring that intothis?
And again, this is Shanghai and I and I and I feel that if you
put all of these five things together, this is the epitome of
(06:00):
what brilliant retail looks likeright now in the environment.
And to give you sort of, you know, some examples they've got
here is the pop up, the Hirono and, and again, when I was there
last year and again in Europe, we're seeing an explosion of
luxury pop ups. And, and you know why?
Because luxury has to stand out.If you know, an LVMH bag looks
(06:24):
the same as an Hermes bag that looks the same as a, a Burberry
bag, the experience will not be the same.
And it's that emotional connection that luxury is
definitely going for. But this is not, and I again
have spoken this as spoken aboutthis before, we see this at
value retail, you know, lefties in Spain similar to Primark
(06:47):
going above and beyond and creating a pop up that is 100%
could be the same as a a luxury experience pop up.
So anyway, that's my first one. Hope it helps.
Reef will be over to you next. I will.
Sorry, Laura. I might add, can I just add a
little bit on to that to Gen Z because what we've, what we've
seen was one, it was a big topicfor NRF as well this year in
(07:09):
AIPAC. And one of the things we saw is
this generation, because they'reso connected from a shopping
point of view, from a political point of view, they almost
research digitally to avoid a bit of buyer's remorse.
You know, So in terms of you look at the transformation
happening in political landscapes, you look at, you
(07:29):
look at when their, their brand,it's really eroding brand
loyalty a lot for this this generation because they, they
feel this obligation to researchbecause the information's so
readily accessible and because it's so readily accessible, you
know, that fuels this desire. So, you know, we see niche
brands popping up really quicklybecause they, they have the
(07:51):
ability to find their way into people's feeds and do a really
good job. And I think to me, when you're
talking about this generation, the ability to, you know,
research before purchase and because they're just so good at
it, yeah, you don't present yourself in a way that is
researchable, right, In terms ofthe brand or product, then you
find, you know, that you that you miss out.
(08:14):
And that might be in the US. Basically, you know, you're
doing your research online and you're going to store to fulfil
or to get test touch, feel. And then it just leads into such
a horrible experience because you can't do the same things
that you can online. And again, I think these are
some of the small gotchas for, for retailers that predominantly
(08:37):
you think, of course, everythingthat we have online, you can
come and touch and feel in store.
And so many times that's not thecase.
And I think, and I think to the point this generation care maybe
maybe the older generation, you know, they, they understand that
this generation really. Cares, but we're brand loyal
we're brand loyal you know we'rewe stick we find a brand or a
political party or and stick with them.
(08:58):
These guys don't yeah you know they're they're they're thirst
for information and make decisions and change.
Preference is nothing like we are.
That's the thing, I think. Yeah, and, and the community
identity, which was #2 on the list that I shared, you know,
niche interests, how they, they go into like obviously in a, in
a bigger scale, you know, I, I love motorbikes or I love cars,
(09:21):
but more specifically themes such as sustainability or sports
or health or 0 alcohol. Again, things that would never
be considered in other generations.
This generation are leading withwhich is phenomenal.
Yeah, it's incredible, Laura. Lots I could say, but I'll I
think you guys said it really quite well.
I love that point about it's about the loyalty and the
(09:42):
transparency. The loyalty for new customers is
different, but on point number, I guess #2 I'll take #2 it might
not sound that sexy or exciting,but what I'm definitely seeing
in this part of the world is I felt the last three to six
months we've kind of had like a sabbatical.
Nobody's been buying tech. There's been no big projects
(10:03):
kicking off. Everything's went a bit quiet,
especially from everyone I'm speaking to.
And I feel that's kind of turneda corner.
It might be driven by we're coming to the end of this
financial year and with everyonefirming up their budgets for the
next financial year, it starts in the 1st of July.
I think that's definitely a playinto it.
But what I'm hearing is a lot ofthese projects have maybe been
(10:25):
put on hold, are starting to getthe green light, get signed off
some technology pieces. Some people are signing up with
some of the bigger platforms andwe're starting to get a wee bit
of momentum. And I think this is it's a
really interesting one as everyone starts to talk AI do
less with more, especially this part of the world, Alex, we can
I get sometimes forgotten and itit's just a reminder of some of
(10:48):
these bigger texts. It's known the behaviours in
this part of the world, and Asia's a bit different as well.
But Australia, New Zealand, it'sknown how they know about.
They're thinking about buying tech is probably something I
feel is more critical than ever that we start to kind of almost
educate other vendors, whatever they are in the world about
(11:10):
South. And I don't know, Reef, I know
that from your show, you might have seen a little bit of this
happen, like, yeah. Yeah, I think it's been, I think
there's, we've had a little bit of obviously global geopolitics
has happened as we all we're allfamiliar with.
We don't need to dwell on that. But I think, I think to your
point, Laura, I think what's what that the point you're
making. I think as things have calmed
(11:30):
and new financial years on the horizon, the projects are
surfacing. And I think for the big US
exhibitors, we saw a few of thempull back a lot and very late
before the show. And for us that's, you know,
there's this view that Asia Pacific is homogeneous and it's
definitely not Australia and NewZealand is not Singapore, which
(11:52):
is not China. They are very, very different.
And for me, as the markets started to come and new
financial users around the corner, I think you're right.
I think we're going to see a lotmore big projects get signed
off. And those companies that have
pulled back will probably at their own peril because I think
you're right, I think the markets now got comfortable with
(12:15):
a little bit of uncertainty. And also you can see setting
budgets, which means that they're setting proper budgets
for projects in the new financial year or in the back
half of this year. And I think that we're going to
see a lot of development going forward.
Yeah. Yeah, I think look, it's for me,
it's the disrupt will be disrupted.
It's always been the case when in in the times of hardship, in
(12:39):
the times of economic slowdown, so many businesses, not just
retailers, make the mistake of retrenching and then realising
that they've lost a couple of points to market share or they
have to double invest to catch up because everyone else kept
going. And I think the China market's
not, not going to not going to stop.
It may cool down or it may slow down, but it won't stop pushing.
(13:01):
Ahead and it'll be a redirectionof their supply.
So we won't see the supply goingto North America, but it's going
to go everywhere else. And you know, and we're going to
for the way, you know, we're theway that's that's playing out,
we're going to see a lot of Chinese goods all over the rest
of the world and there's plenty of market to sell to for the
Chinese. So I don't think that's going to
(13:22):
be a problem. It's just a redirection of
supply. Yeah, Rick, what's your?
What's your? Give us one of your.
Ones, I think for me that what the one thing that really popped
at this year's show is really about the delivery revolution.
And I've talked about this before and I think it's just
mind blowing. So when Apple launched a new
iPhone, I think iPhone 14 in, inin the major cities in India,
(13:45):
from ordering online to a rival on person's desk in their office
was 8 minutes. So it's called quick commerce,
right. So this works in in high density
cities where you've got a lot ofdistribution points and cheap
labour. Yeah, yeah.
But what through this journey now everything in e-commerce in
(14:06):
an urban area in India, the moremost dominant form of delivery
is quick commerce. And that means delivery within
10 to 15 minutes from order. And the thing that's coming out
of that, which is really important, is that this is not a
free service. This is paid for by the
consumer. So the retailer is making money
not only on the good they're selling, but also on the
(14:29):
fulfilment, on the delivery of the products, right?
Because people are paying for the service.
We had big baskets speak in, in,in Singapore last week and they
are a grocer, right? And they have on their app.
And the thing that one of the things they have on the app that
has massive impact is for every item on the on the app, it is
delivery time, whether it's a piece of broccoli or, you know,
(14:53):
or, you know, a frying pan, you know, in a in a grocery Mart, in
a grocery shopping context. So it's, you know, powerful
stuff. And I think that that's we've
taken that from India. So how does that manifest in
other markets? You know, how do we see that
playing out? You know, a market like
Australia, which is not a lot ofpeople in a big expanse of land,
how does that play out? What are people prepared to pay
(15:15):
for? Yeah.
Then you look at somewhere like,you know, the Philippines, which
is, you know, I think maybe 1700islands.
So it's planes, trains and automobiles to get goods to
people. You know, it's different again.
So how does this, how does this play out?
Because people are now going, well, I'm, I'm prepared to pay
to have that item in my hand in 30 minutes.
(15:37):
You know, we're talking about one of the things that went just
mind blowing was I could go online, I could buy a fridge, I
could do the finance to get it approved and have it plumbed
into my kitchen in 90 minutes. People are paying for that.
That's yeah, it's not, they're not paying, they're not paying
more for the good. They're paying for the service
of having that delivered in 3090minutes and done.
(15:58):
Yeah, I remember interviewing. I'm sorry.
Go on. Yeah, sorry.
There you go, You go. Yes, I remember interviewing
someone from Deliveroo and in the UKI was saying, is there a
need to go beyond 30 minutes, you know, like quick commerce to
get to 15 minutes? And is that a focus for them?
And you know, I think it's culturally probably not in the
(16:20):
UK, but interestingly enough, everywhere else and Middle East,
India, China and and other regions, they're 100% pushing
forward to, you know, 15 minutesor instant, instant. 100% and
even and the key points to take away from this is 1, there's a
perception pace. So if you say that the broccoli
(16:41):
can arrive in 9 minutes, that makes it more attractive to the
consumer rather than 70, right? Yeah.
And the second thing is that you're not changing your
business model. The consumer is prepared to pay.
Yeah. So rather than thinking I'm
going to have to wear this cost to compete, no, it's not that.
It's the consumer saying I couldrun my existing business model,
(17:03):
I can evolve my fulfilment engine, if you will.
Yeah, paid for service. I got you.
That's Laura. I you know what, even on like
when you're talking there, it's,it's interesting because I think
like, like you said, in some cities and dense populated, they
want it now that in the office they want it, but it kind of
leads back to this whole thing around it's a bit choice, right?
(17:25):
And it's about whether like whenI look on Amazon the UK by I
want to look at what I want to philtre by who gives it gift
wrapped. So it's all about making the
decisions that work for you. So I think I'm really
interesting to see how AAI starts to personalise more
because you know, if I want it in an hour, what gives me in an
(17:46):
hour? What can I get in an hour?
So it's really a bit curating things depending on people's
individual needs. So the delivery time is one
piece, but if you think about it, it can be so much more
right? Who get you?
Could add so many more dimensions, so many more
dimensions to the product. And then, and then for me, we're
in a in a marketplace where retailers are struggling to make
money by selling goods. These could be other mechanisms
(18:09):
by which they augment their margins.
Right #4 For me, I was actually talking to one of my good
friends, her name is Sam Law, she's a digital marketer and
what? But you know, but she we were
talking about Meta. So something that I think is
super interesting is that meta are rolling out three new tools.
(18:30):
One is called value optimization, then the other one
is incremental attribution, and then the other one is value
rules. And basically in a nutshell,
it's you're going to have the ability to set some rules and it
could be like your conversion rate what it is from a row as
perspective to meta. And then you're allowing meta to
(18:53):
do the creative to just get you the return for it's, it's an
interesting concept. It's really driven by AI, of
course. And it's, I think a lot of
people who are starting to read up on it.
I don't think it's talked about as much, but it's interesting
because we don't know what this will mean, right?
Like are we going to say, for example, the brand discovery is
(19:15):
really changing and this and howhow are things going to surface,
right? Like if you're putting one key
event, if you're setting the rules and then you're allowing
the platform to decide how they display it?
What we going to have click frenzy after payday?
Are we going to have banners on them?
Are we not? How do you keep that brand
identity that a lot of retailershave actually took a lot of like
(19:37):
they've thought that's been suchsomething really important that
they kind of curtail and keep for themselves that now with
these rules, this AI rules is gone.
It's going to make it a lot moregeneric.
Yes. So I'm really interested to see
how that plays out. It kind of also leads into this
whole piece about, you know, guys, I've came from agency.
(19:58):
I kind of constantly I'm lookingat what does this mean for a lot
of the partners that we work with?
You know, I definitely believe that agencies and strategic
partnerships is critical. But I also see a lot of the
things that you've maybe relied on these agency partners for,
you start to question, is it no time to start taking some of
(20:19):
these things back in house? So yeah, so the meta piece that
AI tools and how you can literally just ask for a
conversion rate of 3% and let them decide who, what and where
as it's pretty cool but also a little bit scary.
Yeah, I think, I think the tension, the tension there
(20:39):
really though is attribution, right.
And that and then if you think about, you know, in this
environment, if you're if you say it's almost taking everyone
retailer to a commodity moment where the AI just optimises it
with an inch of its life creatively channel time, the
whole lot audience. And I think from the tension.
(20:59):
And then for the agency, Laura, is that they agency moves,
continues to move away from thatcommodity space, you know, and,
you know, I think if we're all being optimised to into our
life, how does a brand become a brand that stands out because
everyone is not Teflon? Yeah.
What the agency's job, I reckon in many cases in the future is
(21:20):
going to be helping the consumerstop and pause.
How does it how does it make thebrand a bit grippy rather than
making it so easy? Yeah, it's in the journey.
Well, reef, you know as well andAlex as well, like from where
you're at in the world and wherewe're at.
The one thing as well is like you think about the likes of
Sheen and Tina who don't seem tohave a problem with supply.
(21:41):
Sometimes you look at these rules and you go, Oh my God,
we're just feeding the beast right.
Like like it almost as I guess it always has been.
Whoever has got the budget to keep spending if they're getting
the run well wet. So it's, I do kind of always
think back to like Sheen with the rules with America.
What does that mean? They're going to be investing
(22:02):
more in markets are buying from them and I mean 1.2 billion in
sales last year in Australia. Yeah.
So we're going to see more more if Sheen hit the market.
And if Sheen and team who aren'tgoing into the States, they're
going to have even more supply for Australia, which means based
if they're building at a robust model and with unlimited supply
(22:22):
for the Australian market, you know, how much more money can
they spend in advertising? Yeah, I think the interesting
thing is that how long before they go into physical stores,
you know, because they've done pop ups.
They're they're sort of they've done pop ups in different cities
around the world and they've also got designed like Sheeny's
got different designers in different parts of the world.
I did it. I did an event with one of their
(22:44):
designers in Chicago and it was so obvious I could how long
before this model then starts taking the on the indetexes, the
mangoes that the gaps of this world, you know, upscale the
quality of the product, go into physical and then beat on price.
But reef, what's your? I think, I think mine's for
(23:04):
building from laws. Actually, my topic is really
around and I was a good friend of mine at Microsoft, Mr Damian
Villeroi, who leads Microsoft, the region.
He was very passionate about this.
And when I dug into it a bit deeper, it sort of linked it
ladders up to the some of the stuff that Laura's talking about
with, with with Meta, it very much links to the Gen Z consumer
or Gen Z consumer and that's thehybrid consumer and this
(23:27):
consumer for the first time, I think retailers are it's really
hitting home that that, that they need to stop worrying about
discrete channels. And I'll give you an example,
back in the day I worked and launched a major banks Internet
banking in Australia. And we launched the Internet
website and the bank had always been prescriptive.
(23:47):
If you've got this home loan, you have this credit card and
you've got this deposit account like, and all of a sudden the
Internet democratised the product suite, which meant the
consumer bought the products they wanted to buy.
And the guys in the bank and theproduct guys are going, they're
just brains are exploding because they couldn't understand
why they were. Consumers are grouping products
together because they went appropriate as they saw the
(24:09):
world, but the consumer saw things differently.
And I think that we're seeing that now in channel.
And what I mean by that is, is that, you know, a consumer now
and a retailer now has to look at the world out and not through
discrete channels anymore. The consumer really, and Gen Z
particularly, really walk into astore and want the experience
(24:29):
wrapped. You know, how am I recognised,
how am I acknowledged, How is the product that I want
presented to me? Because you know about me, you
know, all those things and that can't be done just only in
physical and it can't be done only in digital.
And that piece is really challenging.
And the AI piece takes us towards this Teflon approach,
(24:52):
right? But then it's about the tension
back to the agency piece about how do I at one point in the
journey make the consumer pause and enjoy a little brand
experience along the way? You know, so this hybrid
consumer is, is really probably even they probably even forget
where the transaction's occurring that there's a there's
not yeah, there's this this sense that that, you know, they
(25:14):
would, they'll they'll journey through the journey.
And and so therefore, if we're talking about Facebook's
modelling and or Meta Meta's modelling and running AI through
the whole thing in the dynamic creative, you know, is that
being done discreetly for a digital channel?
Are we addressing the hybrid consumer through this process?
You know, because you're phones with you all the time and Meta's
channels, the is the mobile right.
(25:36):
So he's Meta's advertising in Geo tone.
So when I'm in a Maya or when I'm in a, you know, where I'm in
a fair price in Singapore or whether I'm in a Family Mart in
Tokyo, like is, is that being recognised because they're all
big meta markets, right? And is that all linking
together? You know, how, how, how is the
AI learning through that process?
Because this consumer now is is not locked to a channel.
(25:59):
If not locked to and that they are, there are a lot 2 of the
outcome they're looking to achieve.
Yeah, Yeah, it's so a thing as well.
And I know that Alex. Well, the three of us were at
shop talk in Vegas, but one of the biggest things it was about
the the typical funnel is, is it's completely it's gone the
the the funnel of our shop is gone.
(26:20):
People are coming in whatever way they want and that's just
how it has has to be now. So the attribution is, we still
don't really have a great way tomeasure attribution, but I do
think we're getting a little bitmore sophisticated with with how
we get there. But yeah, the the funnel is is
broken, yeah. Yeah, sorry, Alex.
(26:40):
If you look at categories like, yeah, so spend some time with
LLVMH in the lead up for the show with a couple of their
brands and they're still so invested in physical retail, but
the way they're wrapping those experiences is unique to the
category. You know, if you're, I mean, I
went to the the launch of Live A, which is the Spanish handbag
(27:01):
brand that's owned by LVMH in Sydney.
They have their marquee store inPick St in Westfield and it's
really cool, really neat experience.
I mean, I'm not into not into the handbag so much, but the lot
of the jackets were nice. But I'm a bit old for it, I
think. But the point is that, you know,
the experience was magical, right?
So, but but they're still wrapping the whole thing.
(27:23):
You know, the LV match has got to play in blockchain.
They've got to play in all thesedigital things that are wrapping
around it. So they know how they're
augmenting, you know, they know how they're the experience.
So the the big trend that's sortof emerging here is the pop up
and from luxury and the experience wars that are
happening right now is because, yeah, that handbag, that jacket
(27:48):
that is costing you that is, that is expensive and is premium
can now be copied. But what cannot be copied is the
experience. So what you're highlighting
there Reef is a trend that luxury companies are moving
towards in creating pop up experiences that provide this
(28:08):
premiumisation of experience that then connects you with that
brand to make you feel, you knowwhat, man, that that felt really
special, you know, and that's like, you know, you go to the
airport and, and you in the, in the premium lounge, you've got
an LVMHA Louis Vuitton Cafe and it and really blew my mind that
there were so many of these little sort of premium brands
(28:32):
with gastronomic experiences. And that's in this world,
specifically in Asia, if technology can do so much more
or replicas or coffees or Me too's experience then becomes
the true frontier of of retail and.
(28:52):
Laura, so go. But you know, Alex, even what
you said, right, luxury definitely leads the way right
with us. But when we think even locally,
culture kings, Simon Beard has been taught him a bit.
He's been doing this for 15 years.
Like he's been all about. He's got like in one of his shop
stores, he's got the Barber shop, then he's got another
(29:13):
store, they've got the basketball and he he was begging
and celebrities, even Sheen, Sheen, that is, you could call
it cheap tat, right? Like, I mean, hopefully I need
the can I get sued for saying that?
And yeah, but there when you shop on their site, it doesn't
matter what you see. There's a lot of people shopping
on it. It's an experience.
(29:34):
So, so luxury lead the way and they do it.
I guess they've they've got the biggest budgets and more people
around them. But I think that's experiential
and what we're seeing even that relating back, Alex, to your
point about that, the generationgeneration said, yeah, it's it's
not just like sustainability andvalues, it's transparency, it's
(29:56):
experience and all the differentlevels of the shopping tier.
So yeah, I'm definitely seeing luxury leads, but I just think
every single retailer has to have some kind of form of
experience, whether they're selling $10 T-shirts or, you
know, $10,000 handbags. That's the bit and that's sorry.
That was the bit that I was going to say.
(30:18):
The bit that I was going to say is that that's the bit that the
agency has a role and that's thebit that we create pause with
the brand and moments with the brand.
You know, that's the Louis Vuitton store in the Doha
airport with the little accent on the coffee or whatever it is,
you know, which is just so LouisVuitton.
That's the magical moment. Whereas we're talking about
(30:39):
Meta, they're creating Teflon. It's a transaction.
Yeah. You know, so all of a sudden in
this conversation you can see where the agency role is going
to take, you know, and then the magic it could be, could become.
Yeah, my, my, my prediction for the future is there'll be some
sort of dopamine score per transaction or customer journey.
(30:59):
What of notion, right? It's how much mean, how much
emotion can I get you to feel whether you're shopping luxury
or whether you're shopping value.
And, and here's the thing. I know people and the, the, the
the research shows this. If you shop value, you still get
that same dopamine kick as someone who's buying a $10,000
(31:20):
back because that to you is so emotionally important and right.
Oh, and right now is. It.
Yeah, it. Was passionate, yeah.
And this is where we take over Laura and things get messy.
OK, let's get the whiskey. That's right.
Let's go. We're back-to-back to back to
2022 mid COVID. Actually, was that not?
(31:41):
He's left. He's even left the chair.
No, he's back now. Did you fall off it there?
I'm having technology problems left right and centre.
Honestly there's a 10,000 LB camera and it's switching off.
But anyway, with that one look, have we covered?
All the points. Yeah, I think we have.
You had a good time. You can't you can't edit that
(32:03):
bit out now, Alex. I don't don't do that.
That's got that's. Oh yeah, Audie was hurt.
Actually what you said was really great though.
And then you just, it was so good, that dopamine piece.
So yeah. That that sounds amazing.
That the the, the so just to give you the trend.
So shopping centres and environments where people are
(32:24):
collective. So take theme parks right there.
That that feeling is what over here and a lot of new shopping
centres are now what I'm coiningas dopamine villages.
What does that mean? It means shopping centres,
especially in the US, are so dead and boring.
You see them bringing and you were saying like the the, the
guy with the store that bought abasketball thing or a thing
(32:47):
experienced that saw no, they'rebringing in electric go karting
water experiences. You're talking about Southeast
Asia like you talk about the mall experience in Thailand on
in Asia. You're, it's banging on, you're
bang on that dopamine here, you know?
That's what's the saviour of physical shopping centres
(33:10):
because they've all been in decline.
Westfield has been suffering. And the reason I know this, I
was at Mappick. Mappick is the industries like
real estate show that happens in.
It's a beautiful show in Cairns.It's very small, very boutique,
very lovely, and you know one who sells 2 shopping centres,
(33:30):
take their things there. So what you end up there, you
see there was like a surf machine, as I said, go Kart,
electric, go karts, because number one, families want to do
things together #2 you need thatexcitement that it used to be
anchor tenants. They used to call them anchor
tenants in retail, but now it's anchor experiences.
What are those experiences? I reckon because I imagine this.
(33:53):
I mean, as a Westerner, I can't talk as as being from Southeast
Asia, but imagine doing a grocery shop and having a little
bit of go Kart action as well. And in the same visit with your
mum and dad, That'd be as my blowing as a kid you'd want to
go shopping, you know, and that would make it, that would make a
day of it both functionally and experientially, you know.
So that's pretty neat. Yeah, instead of going for two
(34:16):
hours, you go for four hours on a Saturday.
Let's get, you know, get some nice food and and there's,
there's loads of like these multi activity environments for
like under 10s where mum and dadcould leave the, the kid there
for an hour or so and go off anddo some.
So you know the especially in the shopping centre industry,
(34:36):
they know that they need to transform to to stay relevant.
Exactly. Wow, that's really cool.
That's a really like that's. Why I'm inside.
Well, until next week. Thank you so much, Reef.
Thank you so much, Nora. I heard you guys are going to go
and drink whiskey together as itwas, Yes.
We Laura used to have a little show called Whiskey and
Commerce. I tried to get on it every week
(34:58):
because I involved me drinking whiskey.
So that was a would be. She have good quality whiskey.
We'll need we'll need to take that episode down because me and
Reef got quite drunk on whiskey so.
Yeah, no, I'm sorry. I'm with the kids.
Our our group activity can be going for a run, a walk, no
whiskey drinking on on this show.
We're going to be doing healthier to it's ease.
(35:19):
Like, I don't know. Yeah.
You could make, you could make your favourite, you know, Berry
shake or something like that, you know.
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, you.
Can. Shake that was pre COVID when
people were, you know, were morefun.
Yeah, OK. We have that.
Thank you so much, Rick. Thank you so much, Laura.
Until next. Week.
Thank you. Bye.
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