Asia’s retail landscape is evolving faster than anywhere else on Earth—and this episode brings you the inside view.
Host Alex Rezvan sits down with Ryf Quail, Managing Director of NRF APAC, and Low Ngai Yuen, former Chief Merchandise & Marketing Officer at AEON Malaysia, board member at GDEX and OCK Group, and award-winning creative leader, to explore:
• The rise of Chinese retail expansion across Southeast Asia
• Why super apps like Grab, WeChat, and Alipay are reshaping loyalty and payment ecosystems
• How influencer marketing is evolving into a listed industry
• The future of responsible sourcing and supply chain transformation
• The intersection of culture, experience, and intelligence in modern retail
Yuen also shares her vision for empowering women through her NGO WOMENgirls and reflects on storytelling, sustainability, and digital creativity.
This is Asia’s story—fast, mobile-first, and deeply human.
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💬 Which of these trends do you think will shape the future of retail the most — and why? Share your thoughts in the comments below!
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⏱️ Timestamps
00:00 – Intro & Credits
00:42 – Who is Low Ngai Yuen? From AEON to advocacy
01:24 – Ryf Quail on APAC retail trends
03:09 – China’s new retail push across Southeast Asia
05:28 – Super Apps: Asia’s loyalty revolution
08:30 – The data debate: Online vs offline insight
10:06 – Malaysia’s influencer IPO: Content as capital
11:18 – Gen Z and the content-driven retail economy
13:13 – AI, authenticity & responsible storytelling
13:55 – Sustainable sourcing: Raising regional standards
17:15 – Rethinking corporate responsibility in Asia
18:10 – Menopause retail & social innovation
18:51 – Alex on culture, experience, and intelligence
19:30 – Final reflections from Ryf
19:55 – Outro & thank-yous
--------
#TheRetailPodcast #RetailPodcast #FiveThingsFriday #RetailTrends #NRFAPAC #SuperApps #RetailAsia #AEON #GDEX #WOMENgirls #RyfQuail #LowNgaiYuen #RetailLeadership #DigitalTransformation #APACRetail #CultureCommerceIntelligence
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to another edition, a fantastic, fabulous
edition of Five Things. Friday we have a special guest
who will meet in just one second.
But as they say in the industry,let's roll credits.
(00:24):
So there is a bop that goes whenthe credits roll.
Everyone finds themselves dancing to it when the credits
run. But anyway, you and you are our
wonderful Co host for the show. Would you mind maybe just giving
us a quick overview of who you are and what you do?
Yeah. So I was the most recently, I
was a former Chief Merchandise and Marketing Officer for the
(00:48):
Aeon Group Burhart in Malaysia, which means in we're a Japanese
retailer in Malaysia and I lead all the merchandising and the
marketing for a couple of years,almost 5 now.
And now I'm the Managing Director of Aeon 360, which is a
data Co, a new JV company between the two public listed
company of Aeon here in Malaysia.
(01:10):
And I also run some NGOs and also sit on other boards and
consult government on a lot of conversations around economic or
culture or women. That's fantastic.
Well, thank you. Thank you for joining us.
I know how much, how pressed youmust be for Time Reef.
Obviously people know you, but for those who may be tuning in
(01:33):
today for the first time, who are you and what do?
You do. I'm nobody.
Don't worry about me. It's all about you.
And no, no, my name's Reef and I'm MD about NRF AIPAC.
So I, I have been, have been themost fortunate man in the world
to be able to live and breathe AIPAC retail for literally the
last two or three years. And I've got to say blow a bit
of smoke, but I'd like to say thank you for you.
And because when you go through a journey with a show like NRF
(01:57):
AIPAC, you meet wonderful peopleand wonderful humans.
And so I met you and through theadvisable process, I don't know
how we met. I don't know who introduced us,
but I don't. Remember as well, I don't
remember. Yeah, but we we got on like a
house far from the start and I'mso excited so And so Ewan's been
part of our part of our advisoryprocess.
She has been leading speakers and helping speakers tell
(02:18):
stories. She did a great session with
Ryan Alphonse Kohler from Alpha Mart last year.
So Ewan's basically a friend nowthat can never get away from me
and stuck with me forever. It's good and.
So when and so when I asked her to be involved with this, when
she said yes, I was like the world, my cup is full,
everything is good. Where away?
(02:38):
That's fantastic. Yes, that's brilliant.
You and why don't we start with you What what are the the top
things I'm a retail perspective.So this couple of weeks, I think
we're seeing a little bit more opening in terms of Chinese
companies, Chinese retail companies in Malaysia, in
Vietnam, in Southeast Asia. And, and I think it's really
(02:59):
quite interesting to see the kind of strategic Chinese push
of the products and how they arenot just looking at retail
front, but they're also looking at production, they're looking
at sourcing and supply chain. That is different from where
they come from. I guess the idea that we are
culturally closer to them, we are a little bit more similar in
(03:22):
the way we have been living, that's actually quite
interesting in how they view us today compared to how it was
when they were just really driving manufacturing, just
really driving the other kind ofindustry that has that really
requires labour support. So now it is the front end, the
storefront that's coming to us and not just physically, but
(03:46):
online we're seeing a lot more things like drama in the box, on
demand in all kinds of strange applications that you can
imagine. I am really waiting to see how
that is going to pan out to be honest.
Interesting. OK, so that's story one, what
we're going to do 1 Actually, I've completely messed things up
because I said Reeve was going to go first.
Ewan's going to go. I know.
(04:08):
I was all trying to go and then I was like, it's OK, it's OK.
I will tell you what, I'm in Chinese front.
It's been really funny. We I.
I would have heard my name, no? No, no, you you're right.
No, I messed it. Up you.
Were wrong, Ewan, why didn't you?
But that's don't worry. Don't worry about.
It all the time, Ewan, this happens all the time.
But I want to talk a little bit,but from from Ewan's point of
view, we talked a little bit about this before.
(04:29):
I've been just to hear opinion we what I've been saying in my
observations of China retail andChinese business coming into the
region, they stop apart from a couple of standouts like Xi'an
and Timu. They've really stopped coming in
of their own brands, but they'reinvesting in local brands and
really putting money run and money in behind, you know, talk
a pedia in Indonesia or Shoppi or Levada or you know, it's been
(04:51):
there's been investments. So they, and I think your point,
you and I think it's because once again they're recognising
the closeness of the cultures and for a while they, they
viewed themselves very separately, but I think they're
actually feeling more warmly towards the region.
And also I think maybe also the region is feeling more warm
towards them. And I think everybody's also
thinking about the geopolitical right now that's happening, you
(05:15):
know, the two end of the of the pool, right, Trump on one end
and China on the other. And where are we going to stand?
We are likely to be supporting both for the look of it, because
we only stand to benefit actually.
So let's see how. Yeah.
It's it's nice to be in the messy middle sometimes.
So my turn. OK, cool.
So today we sort of talked aboutyou and just talked about apps a
(05:36):
little bit. Today I'm going to talk a little
bit about super apps, which is really foreign to Western
countries, you know, So you know, for me, super apps, we've
talked a lot about loyalty and Ireckon super apps in Asia pack
particularly not so much Australia, New Zealand, but
Southeast Asia N Asia, we're seeing a real layer of loyalty
driven through super apps, whichis really unique to the region.
(05:57):
When you think about super apps,we're talking about Ali, we're
talking about WeChat in North Asia, we're talking about Grab
in Southeast Asia, we're talkingabout Gojek and go to in in
Indonesia. And these apps are the Southeast
actually it's been very mobile LED and but also you know you go
to China, it's very mobile LED. These apps are really growing.
(06:17):
The volumes of spend going through them is insane.
So they're growing at compound annual growth rates and will be
for the next probably 5 or 6 years, about 30% a year, which
is in which like we're talking about $220 billion spent through
super apps, which is wild. The implication for retailers is
it's a bit like Amazon in the USor you know, eBay in Australia
(06:39):
or where the retailers sort of damned if they do, damned if
they don't. They have to be involved, right?
Because they aggregate such audience, it's, it's easy to
pay, but the potential is, is loss of control.
The brand, they lose margin obviously by going through the
platform, you know, they lose the way potentially the way
they're being their product is being merchandised and exposed,
(07:02):
but they have to walk a line. So I don't think there's, I
don't think any retailer can ignore them, but it's actually
how they choose to play. So it's and it's really unique
to our region. So I think, I mean, if anyone
comes to the region, you know, if you go into China down
Alipay, put your credit card in before you go there and go and
experience it because it'll blowyour mind.
My Chinese team, we went, we talked saying karaoke and it's
(07:24):
like Easter eggs and games. They went to the karaoke place
and they tried to work out how WeChat was integrated with the
venue. Every every venue's a surprise
so. It's true.
It's true. Yeah.
It's like there's a football team, you have to choose the
football team and then you have to live and die by it in the
terms of which ecosystem you're going to go into.
And then how that all manages your inventory, how that manages
(07:47):
your delivery, how that manages your payment and it well, anyway
that that that's my view. And then in in terms.
Of you think about, they say perhaps, but I think that the
volumes are going think about the data these guys are holding.
Yeah, right. And, and the, and the, and the
knowledge they have about certain categories, right.
It's it could be as a retailer, that's quite scary.
No, it is. But and I also think that the
(08:08):
interesting bit is how most of those digital companies is
mobile 1st may not actually think about data the same way
retailers are thinking about data.
And when is mobile first data versus the other richness of
data from offline. That's actually like a huge
missing bit because how much time are you really online?
(08:30):
How much time are you really offline?
I think that that's something that we've not yet gone into and
and can prove to be very interesting.
So I still think while retailersnow need to pay attention, but
at the same time we mustn't forget about there are other
things that we need to care about like ecosystem play, for
example, who are your stakeholders in the whole
(08:51):
ecosystem of your customer, of your singular customer?
What is their ecosystem and how can you tap into each one of
that? So Super App may be just one
portion of that affects the lifeof a customer, but there are
many other things too. So how can you be a part of all
those to do this? I think China is a really
curious case of it's so different in the way that they
(09:12):
have changed how people use super app and how they
everywhere they go, they are expecting points.
They are whatever food they are,they're looking for discount
vouchers first across like different platforms and they
find it, they'll sit down and they will, I'm going to use this
and I'm going to get free this. And and they, they seem so happy
with that, right? And I'm thinking, but, but this
(09:34):
comes at a real cost to retailers.
And is it giving them the kind of support that they do need?
Yes, of course, when you first start, you're you're quite happy
to dish out a lot of goodies, you know, But in the long run,
how sustainable this is going tolook like and is that going to
affect the quality of the stuff that you're putting out?
So that's also something that weneed to care about because just
(09:54):
like how it's blowing up into how we're using it, if you are
cancelled, you are likely reallycancelled.
Yeah. I got you moving on you and
you've got 2 lovely stories for us as well.
Well, I was going to say that I I it raised my eyebrows.
Not very much, but it raised my eyebrow about how a Fuji
influencer company in Malaysia is going for public listing.
(10:18):
Wow. Incredible.
Do you? Think I've always been thinking
that influencers are, are necessary for marketing for
sure. Yeah, because they, they're
authentic. They they talk about their
experiences, they think about content completely differently
and they are really handy for most marketing campaign, you
(10:38):
know, but for a company of influences coming together and
having various different channels to be public listed, I
think that is saying a lot aboutthis is no longer just a trend.
Of course, the conversation is also like, hey, but you're using
all kinds of social media to support your business, right?
So all the social media platformneed to do is just to tweak or
(11:01):
change a little bit of the algorithm and what happens to
your company? What, where where do you dance?
Stan? What is your business model?
I think this are really interesting question, but you
know, for them to already be able to stand up and say I'm I
want to be listed. That in itself is such a great,
great story. Yeah, I think it's a test.
Go on. And it's, I think for me, we
(11:23):
talked about too, you know, I think content is the oil that's
driving a new retail economy. And I think that, you know, Gen
Z, Gen Z is, is this generation which is 3 years away from being
the dominant retail generation. You know, they are the just
consuming demographic in some markets are sooner rather than
later because some markets in South Asia are younger or older.
But The thing is that this content is the oil.
(11:44):
It drives a rational decision that leads to an in store
purchase, which is the emotionalengagement.
And quite often that's where retailers are going for those
big experiences in store. But this content is the oil for
rational decisions. And that research piece, it's
been done online for this next generation of consumers, which
are almost the dominant generation now, right.
So this, this example of list a content company is absolutely on
(12:09):
point because it's absolutely itis because you you're seeing it
when I talk to someone like Mecca in Australia, right?
They are a digital company whichhave been amazing in content.
They have built 2 massive flagship experiences.
Right now consumers are going retouching online, going in
store, having a magical experience and not even buying a
store, going back on island buying all this stuff, right?
(12:30):
The store is the role of the store has changed, but content
is setting all this up and I andthis is this.
Well, this thing like this is absolutely on point with what
we're seeing around the region. You know what, what you're
saying is a bit more like responsible content.
But what if it's not really responsible content?
You know, then, then. Well, that's The thing, is that
more than half the policy. To report this yet?
Well, there's plenty of irresponsible content.
(12:50):
There's more. I mean, more than half the
content being produced now is done by AI and who's government?
Yeah. So, so you don't know that.
But I think that, you know, ultimately, you know, it's gonna
be the the AI and the search engines who are of living
delivering are gonna have to take some sort of responsibility
really in terms of the the the material I serve up.
Because. I agree.
That's what's going to I agree, because everyone's going to
(13:12):
question their integrity. Perfect you and your all.
Right, Alex, You can, you can talk now, Alex.
That's OK, don't worry, it's called you and your.
Quest story. Is it me again?
Or is it you and odd you and no one?
Is it me? Oh, excited.
I'm losing count. I've done three.
I think I've done one. We've done three, I think.
(13:32):
Yes, yes, please. All right.
All right, I'll, I'll do my, my second one today is and I've
been talking this has been, it'snot my area of expertise, I'll
first to admit that, but I, but I've really got under the hood
of it in terms of understanding sourcing and sourcing,
responsible sourcing in this region, Southeast Asia
particularly, we've got one really developed market, which
is Singapore and then five really other developing markets
(13:55):
I would suggest at various levels.
And, and so, and all of the bothprimary producers and
manufacturing bases as well. And what we're seeing now is a
real shift in this region and transformation.
And that's primarily driven by North American companies and
European companies who are beingheld to a higher standard.
And so the therefore manufacturers and primary
(14:17):
producers in Southeast Asia, forexample, have to be have to be
compliant to tick the box to play the game.
Yeah, to be, to be on the supplychain of some of these big
international companies. And we're talking supply chain
companies like Fast Retailing and to Marks and Spencer's.
Yeah, the implication for this is, you know, it's actually,
it's really positives coming through.
So, you know, the protection of workers, you know, and the most
(14:39):
vulnerable of workers, right. So the people who are either
migratory workers or the poorestof our societies who who need
protection and, and need protection through this
legislation to producers, not just manufacturers, because
that's probably more protection of workers, but more about
primary producers. Thinking about the impact, the
economic impact in there, both local zone, but also the
(15:00):
environmental impact and the sustainable, the things that
happen that means that they are operating in a certain way.
And so for me, what we're seeingright now is some some retailers
who are doing some really cool stuff.
The one that I was going to talkabout today was fast retailing
out of Japan. And fast retailers has a human
rights governance within their organisation, which is really
neat. You know, So what what we're
(15:21):
talking about here is at a boardlevel, right, these guys are
thinking about responsible supply chains, right?
From a human rights perspective,they're thinking about workers
conditions. They're actually holding
suppliers and manufacturers to account.
So what that means is indirectly, is there some
transfer of wealth to some transfer of conditions that we
(15:44):
expect in our daily life that are now being lifted and placed
in countries like Vietnam or countries like Philippines or
Indonesia, which is pretty special, right?
And so I think we've talked about this, what I'm coming
around to is we're talking aboutthis great wealth generation
we're having all these people inAsia Pacific or Southeast Asia
really join the middle class. A lot of this responsible
(16:04):
sourcing, this manufacturers, Prima producers has been driven
by the behaviour of companies who are outside the region.
And I think that's a really admirable thing that is
happening because you know, there are certainly when I I sat
down with the supply chain leader for for Puma last year,
and she said she's a passionate person in this area, right, both
workplace sustainability, those sort of things.
(16:25):
And what she was saying is one of it's making my job easier
because I can dismiss all the suppliers who aren't playing the
game properly. But more importantly, what we're
hearing is because she's obviously they're German.
And so the EU standards quite high, which he talked to
governments like Vietnam, they're saying, well, you're
held to a higher extended. We need you to behave this in
our market, in our backyard because why are you doing this?
(16:46):
This lifts the the prospects forour people.
This lifts the prospects for ourcountry, right?
We get paid in kind for what we deserve to be paid, not what the
market's driving us to and pushing us to be a commodity.
So I think this is really neat. And I think, I think overtime we
will see a transformation and we'll see, we'll see supply
chains move. But I think ultimately now it's
(17:06):
what it's done is actually built.
It's it's building wealth in theregion, which probably we
haven't seen them in in the pastand creating opportunities for
all people in in these markets. OK.
I mean, I know I said we're going to try and keep it to 15
minutes and we've gone over, butI guess closing thoughts you and
any closing thoughts? I, I, I do like to see a little
(17:26):
bit more responsibility in retail really that consumers and
customers can take action on andnot just, you know, hiding
behind CSR or something, but like proper.
So I, I do take my hats off whenI think was it DFI recently
that's going to work with Gen M,if I'm not wrong.
(17:48):
Yeah, yes, correct. Gen M collective.
And so they are offering all this menopausal items and giving
you where to go to for menopauseproducts that is certified and
and you know, we are an ageing globe.
So it is something that is really very much appreciated.
Well, especially when the consumers and the customers can
(18:09):
also participate. So it's not just about the
company, it's also about how is the stuff that you're doing,
doing impact beyond your business?
OK, cool. Reef.
Can you ask me that question? That question, Yeah, yeah.
What's, what's your closing thought, Alex?
I'd like to hear from your opinion.
You've been quite quiet today, so I'd like to hear your
thoughts. Thanks, Rick.
(18:30):
I think in my mind there's threethings as I as I do the show
around the world and I'm not going to get into it, but
there's three speeds. There's retail at the speed of
culture, there's retail at the speed of experience, and then
there's retail at the speed of intelligence.
And what I think you guys have beautifully spoken about is how
retail falls into, you know, is it culture?
(18:51):
Is it relevant? And it's intelligence.
Ideally you'll have all three. And that's where the top right
is. You know, that's the magic
quadrant that people are moving towards.
But I think that's in my mind, it sort of compounds that
thinking. How about you?
What's what's your closing thoughts?
I think, I think for me, my clothes, we're coming back to
the experience pace and I think we're super apps.
(19:12):
I think when we talk about Australians and as an
Australian, you'd have, no, you have no comprehension of this,
of what these are. And so if you're coming from
outside Asia Pacific, for me, one of the things I would
encourage you to do is before you arrive, download them, put
your credit card in 'cause they're safe, right?
And go and explore with them because it'll enhance your
(19:34):
experience dramatically, both inretail, but everything from
catching a taxi to, you know, to, to getting fast food
delivered to anything. So, but the point is that the
Super apps are a different way. They're a diff when it's
something new. They're growing really quickly
in a, we're in a mobile first world in this part of the world.
And I really, I think that, you know, it'll give you a different
perspective in terms of how retail works in this region.
(19:55):
That's brilliant. Well, thank you.
So with that, I'd like to thank you both for giving up your time
and being on the show and until next week.
Thank you mate. Thank you.
Hello and welcome to another edition, a fantastic, fabulous
edition of Five Things. Friday we have a special guest
who will meet in just one second.
But as they say in the industry,let's roll credits.
(00:24):
So there is a bop that goes whenthe credits roll.
Everyone finds themselves dancing to it when the credits
run. But anyway, you and you are our
wonderful Co host for the show. Would you mind maybe just giving
us a quick overview of who you are and what you do?
Yeah. So I was the most recently, I
was a former Chief Merchandise and Marketing Officer for the
(00:48):
Aeon Group Burhart in Malaysia, which means in we're a Japanese
retailer in Malaysia and I lead all the merchandising and the
marketing for a couple of years,almost 5 now.
And now I'm the Managing Director of Aeon 360, which is a
data Co, a new JV company between the two public listed
company of Aeon here in Malaysia.
(01:10):
And I also run some NGOs and also sit on other boards and
consult government on a lot of conversations around economic or
culture or women. That's fantastic.
Well, thank you. Thank you for joining us.
I know how much, how pressed youmust be for Time Reef.
Obviously people know you, but for those who may be tuning in
(01:33):
today for the first time, who are you and what do?
You do. I'm nobody.
Don't worry about me. It's all about you.
And no, no, my name's Reef and I'm MD about NRF AIPAC.
So I, I have been, have been themost fortunate man in the world
to be able to live and breathe AIPAC retail for literally the
last two or three years. And I've got to say blow a bit
of smoke, but I'd like to say thank you for you.
And because when you go through a journey with a show like NRF
(01:57):
AIPAC, you meet wonderful peopleand wonderful humans.
And so I met you and through theadvisable process, I don't know
how we met. I don't know who introduced us,
but I don't. Remember as well, I don't
remember. Yeah, but we we got on like a
house far from the start and I'mso excited so And so Ewan's been
part of our part of our advisoryprocess.
She has been leading speakers and helping speakers tell
(02:18):
stories. She did a great session with
Ryan Alphonse Kohler from Alpha Mart last year.
So Ewan's basically a friend nowthat can never get away from me
and stuck with me forever. It's good and.
So when and so when I asked her to be involved with this, when
she said yes, I was like the world, my cup is full,
everything is good. Where away?
(02:38):
That's fantastic. Yes, that's brilliant.
You and why don't we start with you What what are the the top
things I'm a retail perspective.So this couple of weeks, I think
we're seeing a little bit more opening in terms of Chinese
companies, Chinese retail companies in Malaysia, in
Vietnam, in Southeast Asia. And, and I think it's really
(02:59):
quite interesting to see the kind of strategic Chinese push
of the products and how they arenot just looking at retail
front, but they're also looking at production, they're looking
at sourcing and supply chain. That is different from where
they come from. I guess the idea that we are
culturally closer to them, we are a little bit more similar in
(03:22):
the way we have been living, that's actually quite
interesting in how they view us today compared to how it was
when they were just really driving manufacturing, just
really driving the other kind ofindustry that has that really
requires labour support. So now it is the front end, the
storefront that's coming to us and not just physically, but
(03:46):
online we're seeing a lot more things like drama in the box, on
demand in all kinds of strange applications that you can
imagine. I am really waiting to see how
that is going to pan out to be honest.
Interesting. OK, so that's story one, what
we're going to do 1 Actually, I've completely messed things up
because I said Reeve was going to go first.
Ewan's going to go. I know.
(04:08):
I was all trying to go and then I was like, it's OK, it's OK.
I will tell you what, I'm in Chinese front.
It's been really funny. We I.
I would have heard my name, no? No, no, you you're right.
No, I messed it. Up you.
Were wrong, Ewan, why didn't you?
But that's don't worry. Don't worry about.
It all the time, Ewan, this happens all the time.
But I want to talk a little bit,but from from Ewan's point of
view, we talked a little bit about this before.
(04:29):
I've been just to hear opinion we what I've been saying in my
observations of China retail andChinese business coming into the
region, they stop apart from a couple of standouts like Xi'an
and Timu. They've really stopped coming in
of their own brands, but they'reinvesting in local brands and
really putting money run and money in behind, you know, talk
a pedia in Indonesia or Shoppi or Levada or you know, it's been
(04:51):
there's been investments. So they, and I think your point,
you and I think it's because once again they're recognising
the closeness of the cultures and for a while they, they
viewed themselves very separately, but I think they're
actually feeling more warmly towards the region.
And also I think maybe also the region is feeling more warm
towards them. And I think everybody's also
thinking about the geopolitical right now that's happening, you
(05:15):
know, the two end of the of the pool, right, Trump on one end
and China on the other. And where are we going to stand?
We are likely to be supporting both for the look of it, because
we only stand to benefit actually.
So let's see how. Yeah.
It's it's nice to be in the messy middle sometimes.
So my turn. OK, cool.
So today we sort of talked aboutyou and just talked about apps a
(05:36):
little bit. Today I'm going to talk a little
bit about super apps, which is really foreign to Western
countries, you know, So you know, for me, super apps, we've
talked a lot about loyalty and Ireckon super apps in Asia pack
particularly not so much Australia, New Zealand, but
Southeast Asia N Asia, we're seeing a real layer of loyalty
driven through super apps, whichis really unique to the region.
(05:57):
When you think about super apps,we're talking about Ali, we're
talking about WeChat in North Asia, we're talking about Grab
in Southeast Asia, we're talkingabout Gojek and go to in in
Indonesia. And these apps are the Southeast
actually it's been very mobile LED and but also you know you go
to China, it's very mobile LED. These apps are really growing.
(06:17):
The volumes of spend going through them is insane.
So they're growing at compound annual growth rates and will be
for the next probably 5 or 6 years, about 30% a year, which
is in which like we're talking about $220 billion spent through
super apps, which is wild. The implication for retailers is
it's a bit like Amazon in the USor you know, eBay in Australia
(06:39):
or where the retailers sort of damned if they do, damned if
they don't. They have to be involved, right?
Because they aggregate such audience, it's, it's easy to
pay, but the potential is, is loss of control.
The brand, they lose margin obviously by going through the
platform, you know, they lose the way potentially the way
they're being their product is being merchandised and exposed,
(07:02):
but they have to walk a line. So I don't think there's, I
don't think any retailer can ignore them, but it's actually
how they choose to play. So it's and it's really unique
to our region. So I think, I mean, if anyone
comes to the region, you know, if you go into China down
Alipay, put your credit card in before you go there and go and
experience it because it'll blowyour mind.
My Chinese team, we went, we talked saying karaoke and it's
(07:24):
like Easter eggs and games. They went to the karaoke place
and they tried to work out how WeChat was integrated with the
venue. Every every venue's a surprise
so. It's true.
It's true. Yeah.
It's like there's a football team, you have to choose the
football team and then you have to live and die by it in the
terms of which ecosystem you're going to go into.
And then how that all manages your inventory, how that manages
(07:47):
your delivery, how that manages your payment and it well, anyway
that that that's my view. And then in in terms.
Of you think about, they say perhaps, but I think that the
volumes are going think about the data these guys are holding.
Yeah, right. And, and the, and the, and the
knowledge they have about certain categories, right.
It's it could be as a retailer, that's quite scary.
No, it is. But and I also think that the
(08:08):
interesting bit is how most of those digital companies is
mobile 1st may not actually think about data the same way
retailers are thinking about data.
And when is mobile first data versus the other richness of
data from offline. That's actually like a huge
missing bit because how much time are you really online?
(08:30):
How much time are you really offline?
I think that that's something that we've not yet gone into and
and can prove to be very interesting.
So I still think while retailersnow need to pay attention, but
at the same time we mustn't forget about there are other
things that we need to care about like ecosystem play, for
example, who are your stakeholders in the whole
(08:51):
ecosystem of your customer, of your singular customer?
What is their ecosystem and how can you tap into each one of
that? So Super App may be just one
portion of that affects the lifeof a customer, but there are
many other things too. So how can you be a part of all
those to do this? I think China is a really
curious case of it's so different in the way that they
(09:12):
have changed how people use super app and how they
everywhere they go, they are expecting points.
They are whatever food they are,they're looking for discount
vouchers first across like different platforms and they
find it, they'll sit down and they will, I'm going to use this
and I'm going to get free this. And and they, they seem so happy
with that, right? And I'm thinking, but, but this
(09:34):
comes at a real cost to retailers.
And is it giving them the kind of support that they do need?
Yes, of course, when you first start, you're you're quite happy
to dish out a lot of goodies, you know, But in the long run,
how sustainable this is going tolook like and is that going to
affect the quality of the stuff that you're putting out?
So that's also something that weneed to care about because just
(09:54):
like how it's blowing up into how we're using it, if you are
cancelled, you are likely reallycancelled.
Yeah. I got you moving on you and
you've got 2 lovely stories for us as well.
Well, I was going to say that I I it raised my eyebrows.
Not very much, but it raised my eyebrow about how a Fuji
influencer company in Malaysia is going for public listing.
(10:18):
Wow. Incredible.
Do you? Think I've always been thinking
that influencers are, are necessary for marketing for
sure. Yeah, because they, they're
authentic. They they talk about their
experiences, they think about content completely differently
and they are really handy for most marketing campaign, you
(10:38):
know, but for a company of influences coming together and
having various different channels to be public listed, I
think that is saying a lot aboutthis is no longer just a trend.
Of course, the conversation is also like, hey, but you're using
all kinds of social media to support your business, right?
So all the social media platformneed to do is just to tweak or
(11:01):
change a little bit of the algorithm and what happens to
your company? What, where where do you dance?
Stan? What is your business model?
I think this are really interesting question, but you
know, for them to already be able to stand up and say I'm I
want to be listed. That in itself is such a great,
great story. Yeah, I think it's a test.
Go on. And it's, I think for me, we
(11:23):
talked about too, you know, I think content is the oil that's
driving a new retail economy. And I think that, you know, Gen
Z, Gen Z is, is this generation which is 3 years away from being
the dominant retail generation. You know, they are the just
consuming demographic in some markets are sooner rather than
later because some markets in South Asia are younger or older.
But The thing is that this content is the oil.
(11:44):
It drives a rational decision that leads to an in store
purchase, which is the emotionalengagement.
And quite often that's where retailers are going for those
big experiences in store. But this content is the oil for
rational decisions. And that research piece, it's
been done online for this next generation of consumers, which
are almost the dominant generation now, right.
So this, this example of list a content company is absolutely on
(12:09):
point because it's absolutely itis because you you're seeing it
when I talk to someone like Mecca in Australia, right?
They are a digital company whichhave been amazing in content.
They have built 2 massive flagship experiences.
Right now consumers are going retouching online, going in
store, having a magical experience and not even buying a
store, going back on island buying all this stuff, right?
(12:30):
The store is the role of the store has changed, but content
is setting all this up and I andthis is this.
Well, this thing like this is absolutely on point with what
we're seeing around the region. You know what, what you're
saying is a bit more like responsible content.
But what if it's not really responsible content?
You know, then, then. Well, that's The thing, is that
more than half the policy. To report this yet?
Well, there's plenty of irresponsible content.
(12:50):
There's more. I mean, more than half the
content being produced now is done by AI and who's government?
Yeah. So, so you don't know that.
But I think that, you know, ultimately, you know, it's gonna
be the the AI and the search engines who are of living
delivering are gonna have to take some sort of responsibility
really in terms of the the the material I serve up.
Because. I agree.
That's what's going to I agree, because everyone's going to
(13:12):
question their integrity. Perfect you and your all.
Right, Alex, You can, you can talk now, Alex.
That's OK, don't worry, it's called you and your.
Quest story. Is it me again?
Or is it you and odd you and no one?
Is it me? Oh, excited.
I'm losing count. I've done three.
I think I've done one. We've done three, I think.
(13:32):
Yes, yes, please. All right.
All right, I'll, I'll do my, my second one today is and I've
been talking this has been, it'snot my area of expertise, I'll
first to admit that, but I, but I've really got under the hood
of it in terms of understanding sourcing and sourcing,
responsible sourcing in this region, Southeast Asia
particularly, we've got one really developed market, which
is Singapore and then five really other developing markets
(13:55):
I would suggest at various levels.
And, and so, and all of the bothprimary producers and
manufacturing bases as well. And what we're seeing now is a
real shift in this region and transformation.
And that's primarily driven by North American companies and
European companies who are beingheld to a higher standard.
And so the therefore manufacturers and primary
(14:17):
producers in Southeast Asia, forexample, have to be have to be
compliant to tick the box to play the game.
Yeah, to be, to be on the supplychain of some of these big
international companies. And we're talking supply chain
companies like Fast Retailing and to Marks and Spencer's.
Yeah, the implication for this is, you know, it's actually,
it's really positives coming through.
So, you know, the protection of workers, you know, and the most
(14:39):
vulnerable of workers, right. So the people who are either
migratory workers or the poorestof our societies who who need
protection and, and need protection through this
legislation to producers, not just manufacturers, because
that's probably more protection of workers, but more about
primary producers. Thinking about the impact, the
economic impact in there, both local zone, but also the
(15:00):
environmental impact and the sustainable, the things that
happen that means that they are operating in a certain way.
And so for me, what we're seeingright now is some some retailers
who are doing some really cool stuff.
The one that I was going to talkabout today was fast retailing
out of Japan. And fast retailers has a human
rights governance within their organisation, which is really
neat. You know, So what what we're
(15:21):
talking about here is at a boardlevel, right, these guys are
thinking about responsible supply chains, right?
From a human rights perspective,they're thinking about workers
conditions. They're actually holding
suppliers and manufacturers to account.
So what that means is indirectly, is there some
transfer of wealth to some transfer of conditions that we
(15:44):
expect in our daily life that are now being lifted and placed
in countries like Vietnam or countries like Philippines or
Indonesia, which is pretty special, right?
And so I think we've talked about this, what I'm coming
around to is we're talking aboutthis great wealth generation
we're having all these people inAsia Pacific or Southeast Asia
really join the middle class. A lot of this responsible
(16:04):
sourcing, this manufacturers, Prima producers has been driven
by the behaviour of companies who are outside the region.
And I think that's a really admirable thing that is
happening because you know, there are certainly when I I sat
down with the supply chain leader for for Puma last year,
and she said she's a passionate person in this area, right, both
workplace sustainability, those sort of things.
(16:25):
And what she was saying is one of it's making my job easier
because I can dismiss all the suppliers who aren't playing the
game properly. But more importantly, what we're
hearing is because she's obviously they're German.
And so the EU standards quite high, which he talked to
governments like Vietnam, they're saying, well, you're
held to a higher extended. We need you to behave this in
our market, in our backyard because why are you doing this?
(16:46):
This lifts the the prospects forour people.
This lifts the prospects for ourcountry, right?
We get paid in kind for what we deserve to be paid, not what the
market's driving us to and pushing us to be a commodity.
So I think this is really neat. And I think, I think overtime we
will see a transformation and we'll see, we'll see supply
chains move. But I think ultimately now it's
(17:06):
what it's done is actually built.
It's it's building wealth in theregion, which probably we
haven't seen them in in the pastand creating opportunities for
all people in in these markets. OK.
I mean, I know I said we're going to try and keep it to 15
minutes and we've gone over, butI guess closing thoughts you and
any closing thoughts? I, I, I do like to see a little
(17:26):
bit more responsibility in retail really that consumers and
customers can take action on andnot just, you know, hiding
behind CSR or something, but like proper.
So I, I do take my hats off whenI think was it DFI recently
that's going to work with Gen M,if I'm not wrong.
(17:48):
Yeah, yes, correct. Gen M collective.
And so they are offering all this menopausal items and giving
you where to go to for menopauseproducts that is certified and
and you know, we are an ageing globe.
So it is something that is really very much appreciated.
Well, especially when the consumers and the customers can
(18:09):
also participate. So it's not just about the
company, it's also about how is the stuff that you're doing,
doing impact beyond your business?
OK, cool. Reef.
Can you ask me that question? That question, Yeah, yeah.
What's, what's your closing thought, Alex?
I'd like to hear from your opinion.
You've been quite quiet today, so I'd like to hear your
thoughts. Thanks, Rick.
(18:30):
I think in my mind there's threethings as I as I do the show
around the world and I'm not going to get into it, but
there's three speeds. There's retail at the speed of
culture, there's retail at the speed of experience, and then
there's retail at the speed of intelligence.
And what I think you guys have beautifully spoken about is how
retail falls into, you know, is it culture?
(18:51):
Is it relevant? And it's intelligence.
Ideally you'll have all three. And that's where the top right
is. You know, that's the magic
quadrant that people are moving towards.
But I think that's in my mind, it sort of compounds that
thinking. How about you?
What's what's your closing thoughts?
I think, I think for me, my clothes, we're coming back to
the experience pace and I think we're super apps.
(19:12):
I think when we talk about Australians and as an
Australian, you'd have, no, you have no comprehension of this,
of what these are. And so if you're coming from
outside Asia Pacific, for me, one of the things I would
encourage you to do is before you arrive, download them, put
your credit card in 'cause they're safe, right?
And go and explore with them because it'll enhance your
(19:34):
experience dramatically, both inretail, but everything from
catching a taxi to, you know, to, to getting fast food
delivered to anything. So, but the point is that the
Super apps are a different way. They're a diff when it's
something new. They're growing really quickly
in a, we're in a mobile first world in this part of the world.
And I really, I think that, you know, it'll give you a different
perspective in terms of how retail works in this region.
(19:55):
That's brilliant. Well, thank you.
So with that, I'd like to thank you both for giving up your time
and being on the show and until next week.
Thank you mate. Thank you.
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