August 12, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode of The Retail Podcast, Alex speaks with Rupert Pick, Global MD of Hot Pickle, the award-winning brand experience agency behind iconic activations for Magnum, Guinness, Marmite, Pokémon, Waitrose, Tesco, and more.
From physical brand homes to cultural relevance, Rupert reveals how Hot Pickle blends creativity, product innovation, and immersive retail activations to keep global CPG brands connected to their audiences. He explains why sampling should never be transactional, the formula for scaling playfulness, and how to avoid the “brand irrelevance” trap that’s hit names like River Island and Claire’s.
📌 Key talking points include:
How Hot Pickle launched in 2009 and grew into a global CPG & FMCG powerhouse
Strategic insights for CMOs struggling with brand relevance
The secret to building hype, scarcity, and cultural connection
Why fragrance, sound, and human interaction are often overlooked in brand activations
The rise of brand homes as multi-layered visitor experiences
How physical and digital retail experiences can fuel each other
🎯 Who should listen: CMOs, brand managers, retail innovation leads, experiential marketers, and anyone passionate about the future of brand experience.
Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://link-to-apple
Watch on YouTube: https://link-to-youtube
⏱ YouTube Chapter Timestamps:
00:00 – Introduction & who is Rupert Pick
00:57 – The origin story of Hot Pickle
02:08 – Expanding into the US & global projects
03:10 – Strategic direction & client profile
04:30 – Turnkey solutions for brand experiences
05:50 – Retailer collaborations (Waitrose, Tesco, HelloFresh)
06:17 – Protecting creativity with large brands
08:28 – Advice for CMOs losing relevance
10:13 – Embedding brands into culture
12:11 – Sampling beyond the transactional model
13:39 – The “Stick to the Original” Magnum activation
15:35 – Protecting cultural relevance over the next five years
16:40 – Hellmann’s and the sandwich culture revival
17:37 – How culture moves fast & adapting brand messages
19:06 – Gen Z vs Boomer brand loyalty
21:29 – Overlooked senses in physical retail
22:32 – The power of fragrance, sound & human touchpoints
23:36 – Why physical retail experiences still matter in a digital world
25:08 – The future of brand homes
27:31 – Shanghai retail experiences & hospitality spaces
28:08 – Founder storytelling & passionate brand ambassadors
29:16 – Luxury brands losing relevance through self-focus
30:16 – Staying curious & plugged into culture
30:44 – Closing thoughts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Retail Podcast.
Now last week, I think it was last week, we did a show where
we were talking about one of Rupert's customers and some of
the activations that they had just gone through.
I'm not going to provide any spoilers and I'll let Rupert do
that. So Rupert, the big reveal for
those who don't know you and don't know the marvellous agency
(00:21):
that you have built, would you mind telling us a little bit
about who you are and what is that incredible agency that
you've built? Absolutely.
And thanks Alex for for invitingme if it's real privilege to be
on the show. So I'm Rupert Pick, Global MD of
Hot Pickle, an agency I set up back in 2009, believe it or not,
with two classmates from from MBA school, 1A jazz classical
(00:46):
promoter and a another environmental lawyer, right.
And we decided to create a brandexperience business, which you
might think is a little unusual given our our kind of
backgrounds, although I had AI had a brand background.
So I was formerly a kind of Unilever and the agency in
simple terms does two things. It creates a brand experiences
(01:07):
for large brands predominantly in the sort of FM, CGSCPG world
and we do a product innovation for those similar companies and
primarily in the food and drink world.
So most of our client base is food and drink, but not
exclusively. We also operate in the kind of
personal care and entertainment world too.
So you, I, I assume you operate from, from reading about you,
(01:30):
you operate in the US as well, right And you just underneath a
big rebrand as part of the US launch.
Yeah, so Patrick Hammond who's one of the Co founders is
American. In fact the one of the other
original Co founders, Barcu Rogers, who no longer the
business was also American. Yeah, after 15 years of grey
winters and grey summers, he decided that he wanted to go
(01:53):
back to the States. And we already had a number of
US clients and a lot of global brand teams are based out of the
US So it made complete sense to set up an office over there, an
office in Winston Salem in NorthCarolina, which is a kind of
slightly unusual location, but actually in the States.
What we've learned is it's such a big country, it doesn't matter
where you based as long as you're near an airport and
(02:15):
Charlotte is only around the corner.
So yeah, Patrick and the team isbased.
We now have a US office serving US clients, but we worked
globally. You know, we're in discussions a
project for for Australia. We've done a large scale
infrastructure retail experiencein Shanghai and all across
mainland Europe. So the team are pretty mobile.
OK. So global agency servicing CPG
(02:40):
brands, yeah. Do you have then did you have
the sort of a strategic conviction that sort of steers
your approach as the the group MD or the global MD is?
How is that? Because there's such different
diverse markets? Yeah.
So I guess so there's a, there'sa couple of things we have
strategic direction and kind of in, in terms of who do we work
(03:02):
with. So predominantly with consumer
brands delivering physical brandexperience or product
innovation. We tend to work with global
brands because of the nature of the type of work we want to do
with them and the types of work we're kind of well known for.
You know, there are only a certain types of brands that are
able to build, you know, citadels to their brand from a
(03:24):
big physical experience is we don't tend to to do much work
with that less incredibly well funded sort of start up brands
may be a bit in this sort of challenger, but predominantly in
established iconic brands that abig fan followings.
You know, that's they're the kind of people who want to build
kind of big brand showcases. The other thing that is really
directs our work is our capabilities.
(03:45):
So we're not a classic creative agency in the, you walk in the
door with a with a budget and all, we and you come out with a
series of creative ideas in the form of sort of presentations.
Yeah, for our sins, we are really a turnkey solution for
anyone wanting to deliver on this is on the experience side,
a physical brand experience and operate it.
So we do everything from the business modelling.
(04:08):
So right at the front end to thecreative development concept
development, design, install, build and then interesting the
operating of those physical experiences not with every
single client, but with a with agreat number.
So we are. Sort of mash.
Mccarlson, Saltz and see business modellers into creative
and see into retail operator, which is quite unusual.
(04:32):
Just have curiosity. Have you ever had a like a, a
retailer come to you and ask youto build something for them?
Yes. Yeah.
All right. OK.
The one you get so that just thinking about that.
So we've worked for, we've worked for Waitrose, we've done
work for Tesco's, OK. We've just worked for families.
It's quite, I think there's there's a really interesting
space around retail. So what we're what we're very
(04:52):
good at is we're very good at developing new concepts and
piloting them. We're not a global rollout
business. You know, if you want to go and
build 400 stores, you don't comeand talk to us.
Yeah. And there are lots of retailers
who are playing with ideas, whether that's as a, you know, a
capsule version of their offer or a totally different line
extension to their retail operation.
(05:12):
You know, we're quite a good fitfor that because we can take a
project, but like a sort of skunk works team, go and develop
a business model, develop the concepts, operate it, and
whether it's successful or not, hand it back to them.
So yeah, we've had everything from kind of big boss retailers
through to D, actually D to C retailers.
So HelloFresh would be a good example.
(05:33):
Yeah, we developed a concept forthem.
They wanted to test a actually agrocery line rather than the D
to C line. And they said, OK, well, one of
the interesting ways of doing that would be to kind of build a
store. And then we can we can see if
consumers are going to buy it inwithin the store.
But also we can have conversations with those
consumers a bit like a source ofa real market research test.
And we did that for them in Central London well.
(05:54):
How do you protect these massivescale projects and brand homes,
but yet you seem to sort of fearlessly continue to be
creative? I mean, how do you protect that
creativity when you're working with much large brands?
Is there a formula for scaling playfulness?
So I think we're very fortunate in that pretty much every single
(06:16):
client we work with that owns a big brand or the the brands
themselves are pretty creative entities or the the individuals
that work on them and the ambition of the businesses to be
creative. You know, you take Magma, it's a
great example actually the environment business in you
know, relative to a sort of likea global brands is not that big
(06:37):
a business. I mean, I can't remember exactly
what the total size of the business is now.
I used to run it actually if youin a liver, but it's probably, I
don't know, 50 million plus. But in scale of things in global
brands, that's not very big. But it lauded creatively.
You know, it was only one of thebest campaigns ever.
And I was really fortunate to work on on those campaigns when
I was was that, you know, Magna's another good example.
(06:59):
Guinness is another good example.
Pokémon's another good example. These are great.
These are big brands owned by big corporates who you'd expect
to be quite conservative and bureaucratic.
But actually they built those brands off the back of having a
real, you know, creative challenge and mentality.
Our job is really to take that ambition and then to translate
(07:19):
it within the channel and spacesin which we operate.
And, and most of the time we're encouraged to push the envelope.
I think the, the, the challenge often for our clients is that
we're taking them into a space that most of the people that
work in this business don't havea kind of extended length of
practise and understanding and knowledge base.
(07:40):
So a Unilever marketeer isn't a retailer.
Yeah, they're not a hospitality owner.
So saying to them, these are thethings that we need to do within
a physical space. This is what the, the Marmite we
tell experience is going to be like.
This is the how we're going to serve food in this space is is
alien and new to them and understanding how they can take
(08:00):
their knowledge and expertise incommunication and translate that
into something that's very tangible, that's
three-dimensional and in some case is is human is a is a bit
of a departure and that is the big creative leap that we have
to to take with our clients just.
Going to ask you a few questionsthat I've not shared with you,
but just think to you, I'm I'm super cute.
(08:21):
I'd love your opinion on it because I feel like I'm I'm it's
a unique opportunity you're you're giving me.
I'm Acmo of a multi million in pound brat, right?
And I'm coming to you because I'm not relevant anymore.
I'm really struggling. Sales are down.
What is where do you go? Like where do you take me?
What is it that I'm doing from your experience?
(08:42):
Because you've just wheeled off like a who's who of brat.
But what what's that sort of playbook in your mind?
As long as it's not giving away your it's a secret.
But what would you say to me as the CMO to sort of get me to
think about things in a different way?
How? How do you do do?
That I mean, so we are not the, you know, the single solution to
(09:04):
reviving a browser, but we're potentially part of the
solution. And I think I, I, I won't be new
in saying this is the brands that are being most successful
in the current age. OK, are part and embedded in
culture. Yeah, they they operate very
differently to the brands that Iwas trained on where the brand
(09:24):
owner really owned the voice. We talked about in the
businesses having a dialogue with consumers, not a monologue.
I was sort of trained in the world of monologues here, make a
very expensive advert or make a very good and expensive adverts,
make a piece of film. Yeah.
And then everything below that was kind of really icing on the
cake. It's changed.
(09:44):
It's flipped entirely now. Yeah, I still believe in TV
advertising. I still believe in well crafted
pieces above, above the line work.
But the the if you if you look at the, you know, the successful
brands, the magnums of the guinnesses of this world, what
they're brilliant at it now is about having tentacles into many
different areas and being part of popular culture in its
(10:05):
various guises. So whether that's in with Magnum
in film and in music and in justturning up on the street and
letting consumers engage and play with things and and
consumers of all natures. So right up from kind of Uber
influences right down to, you know, your your average Joe
who's turning up at Tesco and and kind of and Sainsbury's.
(10:26):
And I think that is that is the thing that I would be saying to
see as is, you know, go and search for the places that where
people are genuinely connecting with your brand and go and
amplify and elevate those things.
You know, don't try and create them, but go hunting.
And there's a wonderful marketeer, very talented
marketeer, Unilever, Vicki Rogers, who works on the Rick
(10:49):
Sona brand. And she, she's brilliant because
she goes, she just gets absorbedin little, you know, kind of
rabbit Warrens and, and, and fines consumers and fines
cohorts of, of people in subcultures and then, and then
has a kind of innate way of being able to then have a
dialogue with them and turn thatinto something bigger.
(11:11):
And I think that's the challengeis, is go looking for the
consumers and the cultures that you can bring to life as, as, as
a brand owner. So.
Obviously one of the the the skills and successes that you've
got that you've mentioned is thethe fact that you're doing these
activations in physical in the in the real world and not at a
massive scale, but at a scale that's enough to build height,
(11:35):
buzz, scarcity, need. And you mentioned sampling
there. Yeah, in all of these, in all of
these interactions that you had with CM OS and marketing teams,
what's the one thing that alwaysso sorry, is there one thing
that surprises you? Is there like a thing that
people aren't thinking about when when they come to you or an
outcome from doing these projects that like sampling
(11:58):
around, you know, does everyone naturally think we've got to
create a sampling experience? No, I think the bit that
surprises me is that people can be a bit transactional.
And Steve Chase. Failed.
Basically. How many gonna shift?
Yeah. But and, and they've, they're
rather unambitious in the the opportunities on offer to do
something that is a little bit more, I say experiential, a bit
(12:22):
more memorable when they're spending, you know, significant
sums of money, throwing out product to consumers.
And then they, yet they kind of they're reduced down to the
lowest common denominator if I think a good example.
So we don't tend to do that sortof very transactional sampling
of here's a dump in and I'm going to lob lots of that.
Yeah, but in a train station. But we did do a train station
sampling campaign for Magnum around a campaign called Stick
(12:46):
to the original Waterloo Stationand rather than just have dump
bins of ice cream and it's quiteeasy to get rid of ice cream
even in the depths of winter in the UK.
We had 12 piece orchestra with aspoke curated score that was
based on the score from the advert, playing music on a
(13:07):
bandstand, elevated bandstand whilst people had a sample and
the difference was remarkable. You know?
So rather than grab the products, enjoy the products in
isolation, people were spending time eating the products
surrounding this space, listening to great music, taking
pictures of of the orchestra, performing in a wonderful
(13:27):
Amphitheatre and kind of musical, which Waterloo Station
is. Yeah, yeah.
Relatively little additional cost just some consideration and
creativity and I think that's the bit that I'm surprised at is
is how few businesses kind of you know push things creatively
and say look we're going to commit to this form of
(13:47):
activation now let's make it stand out to let's let's be more
than just the number of productswe've put in people's hands
you've. You've mentioned, so obviously I
can talk to you forever. Honestly, I got, I can keep just
asking you questions and I'm I'mjust looking at the time I've
got to sort of think about bringing it to my last question
again, going back to the brand. Amount you need any more time,
(14:08):
that's fine and we can have a couple more questions.
It's fine. Yeah, I'm just, what I want to
do is a lot of the times I talk to my guests and I lost, I asked
them a lot of questions, but I don't get into the how, right?
Because Acmo or a brand manager,obviously they have to go on a
journey and as you said, maybe they need to be open, they need
to be awake. But it feels like right now
(14:29):
today they are getting smacked left, right and centre from
social, from from different new digital channels, from AI and
you know, all the elements. And so how do I as a brand
manager, like what are the constructive steps over the next
five years that I need to, to think about to protect my brand?
(14:50):
Or as you said, how the heck, apart from obviously employing
really cool agencies, maintain my cultural subcultural
relevance, right? What are the things that what
are those practical things that I need to do?
Or maybe you know what, they're not even the questions that they
will be thinking because I'm, I'm just making up what I think.
And you sit down with these brand managers.
(15:12):
But the question really being ishow do I look into the next five
years and maintain my authority,my relevance?
I mean, you make a great point. I think the most important thing
that CMOS need to consider and and I have a few friends of mine
from my Unilever days who are inthose kind of positions, is, is,
as you said, stay relevant. Yeah.
And how do you stay relevant By having a really good
(15:33):
understanding of your consumer and of cult.
Yeah. And I think if the most
practical thing you can do is listen to the consumer, It's
it's it's not, it's not new, butlisten to the consumer.
Yeah. And surround yourself with
people who are really plugged in.
And I think that is people in the.
It's not just about people that kind of crazy peripheries of
(15:54):
society, of culture, but also people who are in mainstream
society. If I take I take one good
example. We're very fortunate to work on
the Hellman's brand. Yeah.
And you know, believe it or not,the world of sandwiching is
having a revival now. The format of a sandwich hasn't
changed a great deal, and sandwiching isn't a kind of new
idea in any way. But what we're seeing is this
(16:15):
sort of subculture of people making sandwiches like they're
kind of works of art. And you're and you're getting
the emergence of sandwich shops that, you know, charging sort of
1015 lbs incredible sandwiches, really indulgent, really
elaborate, very foodie. You know, how big is this stack?
How wide is this stack? What breads am I using?
(16:37):
Crazing, You know, the detail. Yeah.
You know, that didn't really exist about 18 months ago.
And for a big brand like, you know, Hellman's, they need to
be, they need to be part of thatconversation, not necessarily
only in the conversation, but need to be part of that
conversation. So.
But if you are not plugged into the food scene and you're not
plugged into the subcultures within the food scene, you could
miss that entirely. And as a brand, where there is
(16:59):
a, there's a product role, it's idle.
You're part of that conversation.
So, and, and what I do know is that culture moves on very
quickly. So what is hot today is not
going to be hot 12 months down the line.
So the, the, the other challengeis plug yourself into culture,
find the people who are connected to culture and
(17:20):
continually innovate within those spaces.
Because if you stick with the same message I can show you, you
know, 1824 months down the line,you start to look retired and
redundant. You know, and we see this in the
world of lifestyle. You know, I kind of feel like,
you know, Nike's lost its its way a bit doesn't feel as her
relevant in culture, whereas andhold back, right.
Look how good at it that's. Doing yeah, yeah yeah in.
(17:43):
The US they're doing Samuel L Jackson, Missy Elliott and
activation with skateboarders, while in the UK they're selling
bucket hats with Oasis. You know.
To me, what a perfect and I've got example because again, all
of my guests on the shows have all spoken about Adidas in their
local communities and I wish I could remember the the cultural.
(18:03):
Clothes that they. Wear in Saudi Arabia, but the
ladies wear it so to to protect the modesty.
There's like this down that you wear.
I was talking to my host Co hostout there and she was saying
Adidas have just created this amazing thing that I wear and
the girls in the office are like, Oh my God, where did you
get that from? Where's that?
You know, and it's like what a perfect example.
(18:24):
Yeah, I think, I think that's, that's The thing is, you know,
even in these big global brands,you think that, you know, we
live in a sort of monoculture. We don't, you know, the
subcultures within, you know, every society and across
geographies, people operate slightly differently.
And I think the, the best brandsare able to have this, as I
said, this sort of tentacle approach where they're able to
(18:45):
have a, a consistent strategy, but show up differently in
different places in, in ways entirely relevant, authentic,
you know, appropriate for that particular kind of population.
Do you think that's a generate, IE Gen ZS, Gen Z as in general
for Gen Z, they are now that's what they're looking for.
(19:06):
Whereas Boomers and Gen XS, you know, they're so loyal to a
brand even when they've lost. Because when you look at
specifically in the UK, you lookat the brands that are
struggling and this this week ormonth, there's been Claire's in
the news. There's been River Island in the
news, there's been E buyer in the news and I'm thinking they
must have sat there thinking, how do we maintain relevance?
(19:28):
But something went wrong, right?Some somehow they dropped out of
like Nike, They they've made some.
You know, one decision leads to another decision that leads to
another decision that, you know,then all of a sudden that
they're just not relevant in their consumers life, Which I
think speaking to you feels likean art form that you you
probably I think is natural, butit probably isn't, right.
(19:50):
I think that's, I don't know, that to me feels like maybe some
of the secret to your successes,these things that you naturally
have. Yeah, that doesn't exist out
there. What what's quite interesting
is, is I think there's a challenge in fashion and some of
the lifestyle fashion brands. So you mentioned Riverline, you
mentioned Nike where product is so.
(20:10):
Key to that relevance piece yeahyeah product is always changing
it in in in let's say that I don't know the the booze world
or the food world often those products you know they're
constants you know Guinness has not changed in 100 years the
treatment or 200 and something year the treatment of that brand
is different whereas Nike not only needs to keep his
(20:32):
communication current it needs to keep its product current so I
think they have even more challenges than some of the kind
of food and drink brands that weoften.
I don't know, I look at Bureau and Tom Holland for Wimbledon
activation, right? Non alcoholic beer you have to
sell. Yes, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I think it, I mean, I don't think it's going to outsell, but
(20:52):
it's alcohol sales are definitely declining.
So for Guinness to maintain its relevance as as as you said,
they need to be doing these physical activations.
Is there anything when you've done all these like obviously
music seems to be something thatyou implied when you were
talking about the Magnum experience.
Are there any other physical senses that you feel brands
(21:15):
sometimes overlook because they're just looking at, you
know, maybe taste but forgettingabout theirs that the.
Sentry was, so it's very good ina physical sense.
Fragrances is so often. Well, everyone goes to the.
The visual aesthetic on the whole there's the other.
Let me design this store beautifully.
What colour is on the walls? What pictures are we using
What's the visual merchandising looking like Yeah.
(21:37):
And actually, you know, walk into a.
I'm going to take Soho House as a good example they have a very
distinctive kind of smell Yeah. It the power of fragrance to
transform people. I was brought up in the Far East
and every time I go back to kindof Hong Kong, I walk out the
airport and I feel at home, eventhough, you know, I lived there
(21:58):
only till I was 8 years old. It's because of the audio.
It's because of the fragrance ofthe place.
Actually, it's not about the visual aesthetic because the
visual aesthetic in many places has kind of changed.
Yeah, I think it's, we try, we talk about the experience or an
emotive fingerprint of a, of an,of an experience is it's
multiple touch points that make up the total experience.
(22:21):
And so much of it is, is also a human experience.
It is, you know how you are are approached by another person.
How are you spoken to by anotherperson?
Do you think about some of the your riches?
And I invested comments kind of brand experiences and I would
say kind of, you know, restaurant experience, hotels
experience. Probably the most memorable ones
(22:41):
are where you've had fantastic service or you've had a great
interaction with the people around you.
You probably don't remember necessarily what what you sat on
or what you saw on the wall, butyou remember the conversations
in the dialogue that you had. So yeah, I think it's, it's a,
everyone would say this, but it is a real 360 brand experience
you need to look at and you can't overlook any one of them.
(23:03):
Yeah. And, and the wonderful thing
from the retail podcast thing is, is the, the fact that all of
your activations in the physicalworld constantly prove that this
new generation as well as other generations are still looking
for that interaction in a physical space.
Yes, they love digital, yes theylove social, but they still are
(23:25):
looking and hungry for physical activations, right that I
presume. Oh, absolutely, I mean, you
know, concerts around festivals,around a great restaurants, you
know, there's lines going aroundaround the corner for the you
know, a new donut retail, you know, every pop up in London
that is that is decent. There's, you know, there's some
(23:45):
stuff that that isn't well produced, but we are social
beings. We great going to physical
spaces. And I, I was concerned when in
the sort of, I guess early 2010,I was thinking Griki, I'm
running an analogue business here and everyone's going
digital. I'm thinking, am I, am I the
Luddite in the room? And then I realised actually,
(24:07):
the two things can live side by side and they, and in fact, it's
the digital world that has created this energy and this
passion and then this anticipation for physical
experiences. And, you know, look what
happened after COVID, everyone rushed out to go and have to be
in social and naturally like being locked up in our, you
know, houses just on screens. So there's a, there's a role for
(24:29):
both. I think what's interesting now
is just integrating those physical express experiences
into the digital world and understanding how those two
things work together together. So when we are producing our
work, we are thinking about the people that are experiencing
those the spaces, but also theirfriends and their families and
their communities and how they're experiencing them
(24:50):
vicariously through the people that have been in attendance.
So, you know, the two things need to kind of sit together.
Is there one question that I should have asked you and I
didn't? So great that that is health is
a great question. Are you you?
Asked are you asked I think in in an e-mail is you know, what
do I think the kind of brand home of the future would be?
(25:11):
Yeah. And I'm not sure I know exactly,
but I think I do know that they're going to be many more of
them because I think well crafted brands, if they are
retailer orientated brands, they'll reduce their footprint
in a state and invest in really great experiences.
So they'll have less of them, but they'll be better.
And I think the brands that aren't retailers understand the
(25:34):
importance of community and understand how community really
does build a brand these days. You know that you cannot rely on
the brand just being a megaphone.
You need the brand to be the sort of the trigger for
communication. It's a bit like a sort of
throwing the stone in into a pond and then the conversations
then flow from you starting or building into the conversation.
(25:59):
And I'm pretty sure we're going to see more and more elaborate
experiences. I think we're going to, and I
see brand homes where the manifestation, the expression of
the brand is more elaborate, isn't just about the product,
isn't just about, you know, takeGuinness isn't just about having
a bar, It's about having a spacethat evokes the spirit of the
brand. So it might have a hospitality
(26:19):
piece, it might have a bar, it might have a museum, it might
have a training space, you know,multi, multi layered,
multifaceted experiences. We're seeing some lovely, lovely
brown homes across the world andI'm really excited by the
development of embers sort of visitor attractions, hospitality
spaces, showcases to brands. You know as people just crave
(26:40):
being in and around others and sharing, sharing knowledge,
sharing ideas, sharing passion with like minded souls.
Yeah, I was in the Shanghai lastyear and it's like, I always
feel awkward saying this. I, I wrote a book about the
future of retail, right? And what the physical
experiences and, and a lot of itI took from what I saw at
(27:01):
Shanghai. And it one of the things that
reflects what you said, almost almost every single space
retails. I whether it's Brompton selling
bikes, whether it's buying a Hawaii car, whether it's buying
vans, trainers or had some form of drinks, a space that was not
(27:22):
for transaction. It was there.
And in in the book, I talk abouthow if your customer is your
family and you reframe the way that you think about them,
there's got to be a time and a space where it's not about the
transaction, you know, it's about hanging out like you were
just saying and our anyway, the.The Allison, you're spot on.
You know, people have so much more choice now.
(27:44):
Are they more choiceful? I think they probably are.
They want to dig a bit deeper. You know, why is it that the
founder story is so compelling these days?
I think it's it's all found as asort of narcissist and feel like
they have to tell their story. I think people genuinely want to
know what's behind a business. Yeah.
Yeah. And the physical store does
that, you know, and you can really tell when you go to a
(28:05):
really well run physical brand experience with passionate kind
of brand ambassadors who really understand the business, really
understand the product, really excited and energised by, by
what the space in which they're,they're working.
It's pretty compelling. And I, I think that's to your
point exactly. It's, it's about generosity of
(28:27):
the brand. You know, you walk into days of
let's put some grocery environments to one side, but
the days of kind of just going into a place and it's just about
transaction. It's just about shelves and
racking I think have gone. And you enough to go to grocery
look at the problems Burberry, Gucci, so many of the luxury
brands are having because they've just treating their
(28:50):
spaces. Is this.
Let me tell you more about me. It's like that friend that you
don't want us to hang out with because all they ever do is talk
about themselves, right? It's like where is me in that
conversation? Where do I appear?
And yeah, in the podcast, I jokingly said, hey, Gucci, maybe
they should come and hang out with Rupert and the team and ask
about how do we create more Marmite Magnum esque
(29:14):
experiences? Because those types of spaces, I
think they don't serve anything apart from your bottom line.
And this new generation has a different philosophy when it
comes to interacting with brandsand I think.
Circling. It's a really great point.
Circling back to the conversation we were having
earlier is around culture changes.
(29:34):
To be a luxury brand 1015 years ago was it was to be a bit like
an art form. You know, you, you, you created
an installation. Your store was slightly aloof,
slightly inaccessible in order to create this sort of allure of
scarcity. Yeah, slightly removed.
Now I think the best luxury brands are are approachable.
(29:56):
They are confident that they're able to do collaborations.
They're able to operate with brands from very different sorts
of ends of the kind of pricing spectrum, you know, don't take
themselves too seriously. They have some levity there, but
too many of the sorts of iconic historic brands are still stuck
in a culture of, you know, the 1990s and early early 2000s.
(30:19):
And and I think that is the critical job of any kind of good
and talented marketeer is stay curious, plug self in culture,
be continuing the adapting and and changing because if you to
which you just everywhere with the point of it should become
redundant. Yeah.
And I think that's a lovely way to end the show on Rupert.
(30:39):
Thank you so much. But give it.
Really enjoy the conversation. Absolutely.
Goodbye and thanks very much.
Hello and welcome to the Retail Podcast.
Now last week, I think it was last week, we did a show where
we were talking about one of Rupert's customers and some of
the activations that they had just gone through.
I'm not going to provide any spoilers and I'll let Rupert do
that. So Rupert, the big reveal for
those who don't know you and don't know the marvellous agency
(00:21):
that you have built, would you mind telling us a little bit
about who you are and what is that incredible agency that
you've built? Absolutely.
And thanks Alex for for invitingme if it's real privilege to be
on the show. So I'm Rupert Pick, Global MD of
Hot Pickle, an agency I set up back in 2009, believe it or not,
with two classmates from from MBA school, 1A jazz classical
(00:46):
promoter and a another environmental lawyer, right.
And we decided to create a brandexperience business, which you
might think is a little unusual given our our kind of
backgrounds, although I had AI had a brand background.
So I was formerly a kind of Unilever and the agency in
simple terms does two things. It creates a brand experiences
(01:07):
for large brands predominantly in the sort of FM, CGSCPG world
and we do a product innovation for those similar companies and
primarily in the food and drink world.
So most of our client base is food and drink, but not
exclusively. We also operate in the kind of
personal care and entertainment world too.
So you, I, I assume you operate from, from reading about you,
(01:30):
you operate in the US as well, right And you just underneath a
big rebrand as part of the US launch.
Yeah, so Patrick Hammond who's one of the Co founders is
American. In fact the one of the other
original Co founders, Barcu Rogers, who no longer the
business was also American. Yeah, after 15 years of grey
winters and grey summers, he decided that he wanted to go
(01:53):
back to the States. And we already had a number of
US clients and a lot of global brand teams are based out of the
US So it made complete sense to set up an office over there, an
office in Winston Salem in NorthCarolina, which is a kind of
slightly unusual location, but actually in the States.
What we've learned is it's such a big country, it doesn't matter
where you based as long as you're near an airport and
(02:15):
Charlotte is only around the corner.
So yeah, Patrick and the team isbased.
We now have a US office serving US clients, but we worked
globally. You know, we're in discussions a
project for for Australia. We've done a large scale
infrastructure retail experiencein Shanghai and all across
mainland Europe. So the team are pretty mobile.
OK. So global agency servicing CPG
(02:40):
brands, yeah. Do you have then did you have
the sort of a strategic conviction that sort of steers
your approach as the the group MD or the global MD is?
How is that? Because there's such different
diverse markets? Yeah.
So I guess so there's a, there'sa couple of things we have
strategic direction and kind of in, in terms of who do we work
(03:02):
with. So predominantly with consumer
brands delivering physical brandexperience or product
innovation. We tend to work with global
brands because of the nature of the type of work we want to do
with them and the types of work we're kind of well known for.
You know, there are only a certain types of brands that are
able to build, you know, citadels to their brand from a
(03:24):
big physical experience is we don't tend to to do much work
with that less incredibly well funded sort of start up brands
may be a bit in this sort of challenger, but predominantly in
established iconic brands that abig fan followings.
You know, that's they're the kind of people who want to build
kind of big brand showcases. The other thing that is really
directs our work is our capabilities.
(03:45):
So we're not a classic creative agency in the, you walk in the
door with a with a budget and all, we and you come out with a
series of creative ideas in the form of sort of presentations.
Yeah, for our sins, we are really a turnkey solution for
anyone wanting to deliver on this is on the experience side,
a physical brand experience and operate it.
So we do everything from the business modelling.
(04:08):
So right at the front end to thecreative development concept
development, design, install, build and then interesting the
operating of those physical experiences not with every
single client, but with a with agreat number.
So we are. Sort of mash.
Mccarlson, Saltz and see business modellers into creative
and see into retail operator, which is quite unusual.
(04:32):
Just have curiosity. Have you ever had a like a, a
retailer come to you and ask youto build something for them?
Yes. Yeah.
All right. OK.
The one you get so that just thinking about that.
So we've worked for, we've worked for Waitrose, we've done
work for Tesco's, OK. We've just worked for families.
It's quite, I think there's there's a really interesting
space around retail. So what we're what we're very
(04:52):
good at is we're very good at developing new concepts and
piloting them. We're not a global rollout
business. You know, if you want to go and
build 400 stores, you don't comeand talk to us.
Yeah. And there are lots of retailers
who are playing with ideas, whether that's as a, you know, a
capsule version of their offer or a totally different line
extension to their retail operation.
(05:12):
You know, we're quite a good fitfor that because we can take a
project, but like a sort of skunk works team, go and develop
a business model, develop the concepts, operate it, and
whether it's successful or not, hand it back to them.
So yeah, we've had everything from kind of big boss retailers
through to D, actually D to C retailers.
So HelloFresh would be a good example.
(05:33):
Yeah, we developed a concept forthem.
They wanted to test a actually agrocery line rather than the D
to C line. And they said, OK, well, one of
the interesting ways of doing that would be to kind of build a
store. And then we can we can see if
consumers are going to buy it inwithin the store.
But also we can have conversations with those
consumers a bit like a source ofa real market research test.
And we did that for them in Central London well.
(05:54):
How do you protect these massivescale projects and brand homes,
but yet you seem to sort of fearlessly continue to be
creative? I mean, how do you protect that
creativity when you're working with much large brands?
Is there a formula for scaling playfulness?
So I think we're very fortunate in that pretty much every single
(06:16):
client we work with that owns a big brand or the the brands
themselves are pretty creative entities or the the individuals
that work on them and the ambition of the businesses to be
creative. You know, you take Magma, it's a
great example actually the environment business in you
know, relative to a sort of likea global brands is not that big
(06:37):
a business. I mean, I can't remember exactly
what the total size of the business is now.
I used to run it actually if youin a liver, but it's probably, I
don't know, 50 million plus. But in scale of things in global
brands, that's not very big. But it lauded creatively.
You know, it was only one of thebest campaigns ever.
And I was really fortunate to work on on those campaigns when
I was was that, you know, Magna's another good example.
(06:59):
Guinness is another good example.
Pokémon's another good example. These are great.
These are big brands owned by big corporates who you'd expect
to be quite conservative and bureaucratic.
But actually they built those brands off the back of having a
real, you know, creative challenge and mentality.
Our job is really to take that ambition and then to translate
(07:19):
it within the channel and spacesin which we operate.
And, and most of the time we're encouraged to push the envelope.
I think the, the, the challenge often for our clients is that
we're taking them into a space that most of the people that
work in this business don't havea kind of extended length of
practise and understanding and knowledge base.
(07:40):
So a Unilever marketeer isn't a retailer.
Yeah, they're not a hospitality owner.
So saying to them, these are thethings that we need to do within
a physical space. This is what the, the Marmite we
tell experience is going to be like.
This is the how we're going to serve food in this space is is
alien and new to them and understanding how they can take
(08:00):
their knowledge and expertise incommunication and translate that
into something that's very tangible, that's
three-dimensional and in some case is is human is a is a bit
of a departure and that is the big creative leap that we have
to to take with our clients just.
Going to ask you a few questionsthat I've not shared with you,
but just think to you, I'm I'm super cute.
(08:21):
I'd love your opinion on it because I feel like I'm I'm it's
a unique opportunity you're you're giving me.
I'm Acmo of a multi million in pound brat, right?
And I'm coming to you because I'm not relevant anymore.
I'm really struggling. Sales are down.
What is where do you go? Like where do you take me?
What is it that I'm doing from your experience?
(08:42):
Because you've just wheeled off like a who's who of brat.
But what what's that sort of playbook in your mind?
As long as it's not giving away your it's a secret.
But what would you say to me as the CMO to sort of get me to
think about things in a different way?
How? How do you do do?
That I mean, so we are not the, you know, the single solution to
(09:04):
reviving a browser, but we're potentially part of the
solution. And I think I, I, I won't be new
in saying this is the brands that are being most successful
in the current age. OK, are part and embedded in
culture. Yeah, they they operate very
differently to the brands that Iwas trained on where the brand
(09:24):
owner really owned the voice. We talked about in the
businesses having a dialogue with consumers, not a monologue.
I was sort of trained in the world of monologues here, make a
very expensive advert or make a very good and expensive adverts,
make a piece of film. Yeah.
And then everything below that was kind of really icing on the
cake. It's changed.
(09:44):
It's flipped entirely now. Yeah, I still believe in TV
advertising. I still believe in well crafted
pieces above, above the line work.
But the the if you if you look at the, you know, the successful
brands, the magnums of the guinnesses of this world, what
they're brilliant at it now is about having tentacles into many
different areas and being part of popular culture in its
(10:05):
various guises. So whether that's in with Magnum
in film and in music and in justturning up on the street and
letting consumers engage and play with things and and
consumers of all natures. So right up from kind of Uber
influences right down to, you know, your your average Joe
who's turning up at Tesco and and kind of and Sainsbury's.
(10:26):
And I think that is that is the thing that I would be saying to
see as is, you know, go and search for the places that where
people are genuinely connecting with your brand and go and
amplify and elevate those things.
You know, don't try and create them, but go hunting.
And there's a wonderful marketeer, very talented
marketeer, Unilever, Vicki Rogers, who works on the Rick
(10:49):
Sona brand. And she, she's brilliant because
she goes, she just gets absorbedin little, you know, kind of
rabbit Warrens and, and, and fines consumers and fines
cohorts of, of people in subcultures and then, and then
has a kind of innate way of being able to then have a
dialogue with them and turn thatinto something bigger.
(11:11):
And I think that's the challengeis, is go looking for the
consumers and the cultures that you can bring to life as, as, as
a brand owner. So.
Obviously one of the the the skills and successes that you've
got that you've mentioned is thethe fact that you're doing these
activations in physical in the in the real world and not at a
massive scale, but at a scale that's enough to build height,
(11:35):
buzz, scarcity, need. And you mentioned sampling
there. Yeah, in all of these, in all of
these interactions that you had with CM OS and marketing teams,
what's the one thing that alwaysso sorry, is there one thing
that surprises you? Is there like a thing that
people aren't thinking about when when they come to you or an
outcome from doing these projects that like sampling
(11:58):
around, you know, does everyone naturally think we've got to
create a sampling experience? No, I think the bit that
surprises me is that people can be a bit transactional.
And Steve Chase. Failed.
Basically. How many gonna shift?
Yeah. But and, and they've, they're
rather unambitious in the the opportunities on offer to do
something that is a little bit more, I say experiential, a bit
(12:22):
more memorable when they're spending, you know, significant
sums of money, throwing out product to consumers.
And then they, yet they kind of they're reduced down to the
lowest common denominator if I think a good example.
So we don't tend to do that sortof very transactional sampling
of here's a dump in and I'm going to lob lots of that.
Yeah, but in a train station. But we did do a train station
sampling campaign for Magnum around a campaign called Stick
(12:46):
to the original Waterloo Stationand rather than just have dump
bins of ice cream and it's quiteeasy to get rid of ice cream
even in the depths of winter in the UK.
We had 12 piece orchestra with aspoke curated score that was
based on the score from the advert, playing music on a
(13:07):
bandstand, elevated bandstand whilst people had a sample and
the difference was remarkable. You know?
So rather than grab the products, enjoy the products in
isolation, people were spending time eating the products
surrounding this space, listening to great music, taking
pictures of of the orchestra, performing in a wonderful
(13:27):
Amphitheatre and kind of musical, which Waterloo Station
is. Yeah, yeah.
Relatively little additional cost just some consideration and
creativity and I think that's the bit that I'm surprised at is
is how few businesses kind of you know push things creatively
and say look we're going to commit to this form of
(13:47):
activation now let's make it stand out to let's let's be more
than just the number of productswe've put in people's hands
you've. You've mentioned, so obviously I
can talk to you forever. Honestly, I got, I can keep just
asking you questions and I'm I'mjust looking at the time I've
got to sort of think about bringing it to my last question
again, going back to the brand. Amount you need any more time,
(14:08):
that's fine and we can have a couple more questions.
It's fine. Yeah, I'm just, what I want to
do is a lot of the times I talk to my guests and I lost, I asked
them a lot of questions, but I don't get into the how, right?
Because Acmo or a brand manager,obviously they have to go on a
journey and as you said, maybe they need to be open, they need
to be awake. But it feels like right now
(14:29):
today they are getting smacked left, right and centre from
social, from from different new digital channels, from AI and
you know, all the elements. And so how do I as a brand
manager, like what are the constructive steps over the next
five years that I need to, to think about to protect my brand?
(14:50):
Or as you said, how the heck, apart from obviously employing
really cool agencies, maintain my cultural subcultural
relevance, right? What are the things that what
are those practical things that I need to do?
Or maybe you know what, they're not even the questions that they
will be thinking because I'm, I'm just making up what I think.
And you sit down with these brand managers.
(15:12):
But the question really being ishow do I look into the next five
years and maintain my authority,my relevance?
I mean, you make a great point. I think the most important thing
that CMOS need to consider and and I have a few friends of mine
from my Unilever days who are inthose kind of positions, is, is,
as you said, stay relevant. Yeah.
And how do you stay relevant By having a really good
(15:33):
understanding of your consumer and of cult.
Yeah. And I think if the most
practical thing you can do is listen to the consumer, It's
it's it's not, it's not new, butlisten to the consumer.
Yeah. And surround yourself with
people who are really plugged in.
And I think that is people in the.
It's not just about people that kind of crazy peripheries of
(15:54):
society, of culture, but also people who are in mainstream
society. If I take I take one good
example. We're very fortunate to work on
the Hellman's brand. Yeah.
And you know, believe it or not,the world of sandwiching is
having a revival now. The format of a sandwich hasn't
changed a great deal, and sandwiching isn't a kind of new
idea in any way. But what we're seeing is this
(16:15):
sort of subculture of people making sandwiches like they're
kind of works of art. And you're and you're getting
the emergence of sandwich shops that, you know, charging sort of
1015 lbs incredible sandwiches, really indulgent, really
elaborate, very foodie. You know, how big is this stack?
How wide is this stack? What breads am I using?
(16:37):
Crazing, You know, the detail. Yeah.
You know, that didn't really exist about 18 months ago.
And for a big brand like, you know, Hellman's, they need to
be, they need to be part of thatconversation, not necessarily
only in the conversation, but need to be part of that
conversation. So.
But if you are not plugged into the food scene and you're not
plugged into the subcultures within the food scene, you could
miss that entirely. And as a brand, where there is
(16:59):
a, there's a product role, it's idle.
You're part of that conversation.
So, and, and what I do know is that culture moves on very
quickly. So what is hot today is not
going to be hot 12 months down the line.
So the, the, the other challengeis plug yourself into culture,
find the people who are connected to culture and
(17:20):
continually innovate within those spaces.
Because if you stick with the same message I can show you, you
know, 1824 months down the line,you start to look retired and
redundant. You know, and we see this in the
world of lifestyle. You know, I kind of feel like,
you know, Nike's lost its its way a bit doesn't feel as her
relevant in culture, whereas andhold back, right.
Look how good at it that's. Doing yeah, yeah yeah in.
(17:43):
The US they're doing Samuel L Jackson, Missy Elliott and
activation with skateboarders, while in the UK they're selling
bucket hats with Oasis. You know.
To me, what a perfect and I've got example because again, all
of my guests on the shows have all spoken about Adidas in their
local communities and I wish I could remember the the cultural.
(18:03):
Clothes that they. Wear in Saudi Arabia, but the
ladies wear it so to to protect the modesty.
There's like this down that you wear.
I was talking to my host Co hostout there and she was saying
Adidas have just created this amazing thing that I wear and
the girls in the office are like, Oh my God, where did you
get that from? Where's that?
You know, and it's like what a perfect example.
(18:24):
Yeah, I think, I think that's, that's The thing is, you know,
even in these big global brands,you think that, you know, we
live in a sort of monoculture. We don't, you know, the
subcultures within, you know, every society and across
geographies, people operate slightly differently.
And I think the, the best brandsare able to have this, as I
said, this sort of tentacle approach where they're able to
(18:45):
have a, a consistent strategy, but show up differently in
different places in, in ways entirely relevant, authentic,
you know, appropriate for that particular kind of population.
Do you think that's a generate, IE Gen ZS, Gen Z as in general
for Gen Z, they are now that's what they're looking for.
(19:06):
Whereas Boomers and Gen XS, you know, they're so loyal to a
brand even when they've lost. Because when you look at
specifically in the UK, you lookat the brands that are
struggling and this this week ormonth, there's been Claire's in
the news. There's been River Island in the
news, there's been E buyer in the news and I'm thinking they
must have sat there thinking, how do we maintain relevance?
(19:28):
But something went wrong, right?Some somehow they dropped out of
like Nike, They they've made some.
You know, one decision leads to another decision that leads to
another decision that, you know,then all of a sudden that
they're just not relevant in their consumers life, Which I
think speaking to you feels likean art form that you you
probably I think is natural, butit probably isn't, right.
(19:50):
I think that's, I don't know, that to me feels like maybe some
of the secret to your successes,these things that you naturally
have. Yeah, that doesn't exist out
there. What what's quite interesting
is, is I think there's a challenge in fashion and some of
the lifestyle fashion brands. So you mentioned Riverline, you
mentioned Nike where product is so.
(20:10):
Key to that relevance piece yeahyeah product is always changing
it in in in let's say that I don't know the the booze world
or the food world often those products you know they're
constants you know Guinness has not changed in 100 years the
treatment or 200 and something year the treatment of that brand
is different whereas Nike not only needs to keep his
(20:32):
communication current it needs to keep its product current so I
think they have even more challenges than some of the kind
of food and drink brands that weoften.
I don't know, I look at Bureau and Tom Holland for Wimbledon
activation, right? Non alcoholic beer you have to
sell. Yes, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I think it, I mean, I don't think it's going to outsell, but
(20:52):
it's alcohol sales are definitely declining.
So for Guinness to maintain its relevance as as as you said,
they need to be doing these physical activations.
Is there anything when you've done all these like obviously
music seems to be something thatyou implied when you were
talking about the Magnum experience.
Are there any other physical senses that you feel brands
(21:15):
sometimes overlook because they're just looking at, you
know, maybe taste but forgettingabout theirs that the.
Sentry was, so it's very good ina physical sense.
Fragrances is so often. Well, everyone goes to the.
The visual aesthetic on the whole there's the other.
Let me design this store beautifully.
What colour is on the walls? What pictures are we using
What's the visual merchandising looking like Yeah.
(21:37):
And actually, you know, walk into a.
I'm going to take Soho House as a good example they have a very
distinctive kind of smell Yeah. It the power of fragrance to
transform people. I was brought up in the Far East
and every time I go back to kindof Hong Kong, I walk out the
airport and I feel at home, eventhough, you know, I lived there
(21:58):
only till I was 8 years old. It's because of the audio.
It's because of the fragrance ofthe place.
Actually, it's not about the visual aesthetic because the
visual aesthetic in many places has kind of changed.
Yeah, I think it's, we try, we talk about the experience or an
emotive fingerprint of a, of an,of an experience is it's
multiple touch points that make up the total experience.
(22:21):
And so much of it is, is also a human experience.
It is, you know how you are are approached by another person.
How are you spoken to by anotherperson?
Do you think about some of the your riches?
And I invested comments kind of brand experiences and I would
say kind of, you know, restaurant experience, hotels
experience. Probably the most memorable ones
(22:41):
are where you've had fantastic service or you've had a great
interaction with the people around you.
You probably don't remember necessarily what what you sat on
or what you saw on the wall, butyou remember the conversations
in the dialogue that you had. So yeah, I think it's, it's a,
everyone would say this, but it is a real 360 brand experience
you need to look at and you can't overlook any one of them.
(23:03):
Yeah. And, and the wonderful thing
from the retail podcast thing is, is the, the fact that all of
your activations in the physicalworld constantly prove that this
new generation as well as other generations are still looking
for that interaction in a physical space.
Yes, they love digital, yes theylove social, but they still are
(23:25):
looking and hungry for physical activations, right that I
presume. Oh, absolutely, I mean, you
know, concerts around festivals,around a great restaurants, you
know, there's lines going aroundaround the corner for the you
know, a new donut retail, you know, every pop up in London
that is that is decent. There's, you know, there's some
(23:45):
stuff that that isn't well produced, but we are social
beings. We great going to physical
spaces. And I, I was concerned when in
the sort of, I guess early 2010,I was thinking Griki, I'm
running an analogue business here and everyone's going
digital. I'm thinking, am I, am I the
Luddite in the room? And then I realised actually,
(24:07):
the two things can live side by side and they, and in fact, it's
the digital world that has created this energy and this
passion and then this anticipation for physical
experiences. And, you know, look what
happened after COVID, everyone rushed out to go and have to be
in social and naturally like being locked up in our, you
know, houses just on screens. So there's a, there's a role for
(24:29):
both. I think what's interesting now
is just integrating those physical express experiences
into the digital world and understanding how those two
things work together together. So when we are producing our
work, we are thinking about the people that are experiencing
those the spaces, but also theirfriends and their families and
their communities and how they're experiencing them
(24:50):
vicariously through the people that have been in attendance.
So, you know, the two things need to kind of sit together.
Is there one question that I should have asked you and I
didn't? So great that that is health is
a great question. Are you you?
Asked are you asked I think in in an e-mail is you know, what
do I think the kind of brand home of the future would be?
(25:11):
Yeah. And I'm not sure I know exactly,
but I think I do know that they're going to be many more of
them because I think well crafted brands, if they are
retailer orientated brands, they'll reduce their footprint
in a state and invest in really great experiences.
So they'll have less of them, but they'll be better.
And I think the brands that aren't retailers understand the
(25:34):
importance of community and understand how community really
does build a brand these days. You know that you cannot rely on
the brand just being a megaphone.
You need the brand to be the sort of the trigger for
communication. It's a bit like a sort of
throwing the stone in into a pond and then the conversations
then flow from you starting or building into the conversation.
(25:59):
And I'm pretty sure we're going to see more and more elaborate
experiences. I think we're going to, and I
see brand homes where the manifestation, the expression of
the brand is more elaborate, isn't just about the product,
isn't just about, you know, takeGuinness isn't just about having
a bar, It's about having a spacethat evokes the spirit of the
brand. So it might have a hospitality
(26:19):
piece, it might have a bar, it might have a museum, it might
have a training space, you know,multi, multi layered,
multifaceted experiences. We're seeing some lovely, lovely
brown homes across the world andI'm really excited by the
development of embers sort of visitor attractions, hospitality
spaces, showcases to brands. You know as people just crave
(26:40):
being in and around others and sharing, sharing knowledge,
sharing ideas, sharing passion with like minded souls.
Yeah, I was in the Shanghai lastyear and it's like, I always
feel awkward saying this. I, I wrote a book about the
future of retail, right? And what the physical
experiences and, and a lot of itI took from what I saw at
(27:01):
Shanghai. And it one of the things that
reflects what you said, almost almost every single space
retails. I whether it's Brompton selling
bikes, whether it's buying a Hawaii car, whether it's buying
vans, trainers or had some form of drinks, a space that was not
(27:22):
for transaction. It was there.
And in in the book, I talk abouthow if your customer is your
family and you reframe the way that you think about them,
there's got to be a time and a space where it's not about the
transaction, you know, it's about hanging out like you were
just saying and our anyway, the.The Allison, you're spot on.
You know, people have so much more choice now.
(27:44):
Are they more choiceful? I think they probably are.
They want to dig a bit deeper. You know, why is it that the
founder story is so compelling these days?
I think it's it's all found as asort of narcissist and feel like
they have to tell their story. I think people genuinely want to
know what's behind a business. Yeah.
Yeah. And the physical store does
that, you know, and you can really tell when you go to a
(28:05):
really well run physical brand experience with passionate kind
of brand ambassadors who really understand the business, really
understand the product, really excited and energised by, by
what the space in which they're,they're working.
It's pretty compelling. And I, I think that's to your
point exactly. It's, it's about generosity of
(28:27):
the brand. You know, you walk into days of
let's put some grocery environments to one side, but
the days of kind of just going into a place and it's just about
transaction. It's just about shelves and
racking I think have gone. And you enough to go to grocery
look at the problems Burberry, Gucci, so many of the luxury
brands are having because they've just treating their
(28:50):
spaces. Is this.
Let me tell you more about me. It's like that friend that you
don't want us to hang out with because all they ever do is talk
about themselves, right? It's like where is me in that
conversation? Where do I appear?
And yeah, in the podcast, I jokingly said, hey, Gucci, maybe
they should come and hang out with Rupert and the team and ask
about how do we create more Marmite Magnum esque
(29:14):
experiences? Because those types of spaces, I
think they don't serve anything apart from your bottom line.
And this new generation has a different philosophy when it
comes to interacting with brandsand I think.
Circling. It's a really great point.
Circling back to the conversation we were having
earlier is around culture changes.
(29:34):
To be a luxury brand 1015 years ago was it was to be a bit like
an art form. You know, you, you, you created
an installation. Your store was slightly aloof,
slightly inaccessible in order to create this sort of allure of
scarcity. Yeah, slightly removed.
Now I think the best luxury brands are are approachable.
(29:56):
They are confident that they're able to do collaborations.
They're able to operate with brands from very different sorts
of ends of the kind of pricing spectrum, you know, don't take
themselves too seriously. They have some levity there, but
too many of the sorts of iconic historic brands are still stuck
in a culture of, you know, the 1990s and early early 2000s.
(30:19):
And and I think that is the critical job of any kind of good
and talented marketeer is stay curious, plug self in culture,
be continuing the adapting and and changing because if you to
which you just everywhere with the point of it should become
redundant. Yeah.
And I think that's a lovely way to end the show on Rupert.
(30:39):
Thank you so much. But give it.
Really enjoy the conversation. Absolutely.
Goodbye and thanks very much.
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