November 17, 2023 • 46 mins
Are you facing the dilemma of balancing sustainability with profitability in your retail business? We've got you covered. This episode is a powerful dialogue with seasoned retail experts - Lisa Taylor, Brandon Rael, Mark Self, Jay Fiske, and Scott Benedict, as we navigate through the complex interplay of sustainability and profitability in retail amidst challenging economic pressures. We delve into the potential of the resale market in providing cost-conscious consumers with affordable sustainability. Stay tuned to unearth practical strategies retailers can implement to harmonize cost savings with sustainable practices.
Our discourse on sustainable retail doesn't end there. We have the pleasure of featuring tech guru and business veteran Jay Walker, who enlightens us on how automation and AI can champion the reduction of carbon intensity and boost cost efficiencies. Here's your chance to learn about digital twins, AR, and AI as groundbreaking technologies in minimizing waste in product design and manufacturing. This is a call for retailers to seize the opportunity of consumers' growing consciousness of sustainability and shed light on the value of efficient processes.
As we round up this captivating discussion, we bring you actionable takeaways for embracing sustainable business practices. With Scott Benedict's wealth of retail experience, we delve into sustainability from the customer and operational perspectives. We'll guide you through the trending refurbished products and the 'right to repair' movement, and explore how companies can ingeniously maximize sustainability without denting profitability. Hold on to your seats as we cast an optimistic eye on sustainable innovation in the retail industry. Be part of the journey to discover how the retail industry is bracing up for the balancing act of sustainability and profitability.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hello and welcome Good day to everyone.
We've assembled a panel ofindustry experts and we're going
to have a great conversationtoday.
The theme of today issustainability.
We had an article on ourwebsite the title was how Could
Retailers MaximizeSustainability Without
Sacrificing Profitability andturned into a really great
(00:34):
online discussion in thecomments from our Brain Trust
panelists and in this call we'vegot several of them here.
So to kick it off, I'm going togive a little introduction of
each of the panelists and thenwe'll jump right into the topic.
So first off, we have LisaTaylor, director of Retail
(01:00):
Consulting at TPC.
She has masterfully mergedretail expertise with
data-driven strategy and hasspearheaded key initiatives at
Aftec Solutions and Best Buythroughout her career.
So really excited to have youon.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Great Thanks for inviting me, Chase.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Next I'm going to bring on Brandon Rale.
Brandon has strategy andoperations in his background.
He's been part of pivotaltransformations for Fortune 100
retailers and wholesalers.
He's a top retail influencerand a Brain Trust member.
Happy to have you, brandon.
Thank you for the opportunity.
Chase, looking forward to thisconversation.
(01:38):
And then Mark Self familiarface.
He's an executive advisor andthe current CEO in his own
company.
He helps early-stage companiesto success.
Many years of retail experienceand always great insights.
Thanks for being here, mark.
Thanks for having me.
So, to kick it off, I wanted tojust find it right over to
(02:01):
Brandon here.
What are your thoughts on thistopic of sustainability versus
profitability?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
I think there are.
Thank you, chase.
There are competing forces here.
We're seeing the rise ofconcern and more consciousness
from consumers on the importanceof sustainability and the
environment and their impactwith their chopping decisions.
At the same time, the consumeris faced with very disruptive
economic forces.
There is rising inflation,cost-living crisis.
(02:29):
Now we're seeing the housingcrisis emerge again Just the
overall cost of living and allthe geopolitical and
macroeconomic headwinds thatwe're experiencing, especially
in the US market.
Yeah, there's still an interestin sustainability.
There's still an interest ofwhat impact do we have as
consumers to play a positiverole on contributing to the
(02:53):
decrease of the carbon footprintthat each person has?
So, as we know, sustainabilityrequires more premium processes
and products and manufacturing,so there is an increased cost
associated with increased retailcosts to the consumer.
I think the spirit and theambition and the intent is there
from the consumer, but thechallenge is just the limited
(03:16):
budgets and strap wallets thatpeople have now with all the
inflate of all the inflation andcost-living crisis we have.
So I think we can open up forconversation.
I think the big thing we'reseeing in the US is the rise of
the resale market.
The companies like ThreadUp andRent a Rungway are leading the
cause here.
If you look at the US fashionmarket, only for resale it's
(03:38):
going to increase 15% or 16%this year to about $14 million,
and then the expectation is thenext couple of years it should
be forecasted to reach $24billion, and then there are
about three or four times theamount of brands that are
actually interested in startinga resale program.
So that might be the avenue inliabilities, economic
disruptions, where we can see alot of consumption happening and
(04:01):
making a positive impact.
But I'd love to hear at leastyour thoughts and Mark as well
on the topic.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah, I think that's a great call out as you think
about all the current pressuresright now that everyone has
economically.
Anytime we can couple costsavings and along with
sustainability, you're going tosee success.
Best Buy, as an example, hasbegun expanding the number of
outlets.
They have, taking those openbox products, bringing them to
(04:30):
stores specifically, soproviding that avenue for people
to really still get what theyneed without sacrificing quality
but at a lower, reduced price,and keeping those things out of
landfills and reducing thatcarbon footprint.
So I think it's a really goodcall out.
Anytime you can do couple ofthose two things together,
(04:50):
you're going to see a bit ofsuccess.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
From my perspective, sustainability is an important
topic.
However, we need the merchants,brands and retailers need to be
careful that it doesn't turninto another form of virtue
signaling.
It's great when something canget reused and repackaged and
(05:13):
resold and someone saves somemoney that way.
However, if it comes down toI'm just saving landfill, that's
a good thing.
Everybody understands it's agood thing.
However, it doesn't necessarilytranslate into greater profits
or a better value propositionfor the consumer.
(05:35):
So there's a lot of differentstratifications of
sustainability and I thinksimplistically, from my
standpoint, it seems a littlebit like organic foods.
You pay a dollar for a bananathat's grown organically versus
25 cents for one that's not, andyet they both taste the same.
(05:57):
I don't know.
That's a difficult consumerchoice to make, assuming you
have the money to pay the dollarfor the organic banana.
So there's a lot of waysforward here.
I know that high-endmerchandise and even in some
ball things, racing cores likeFormula One teams are starting
(06:19):
to grade themselves onsustainability.
So it's a I like the progressthat we're seeing in the
industry.
However, for it to be fullyadopted, from my perspective,
there needs to be a stronger andstronger value proposition
outside of.
We're just saving stuff fromgoing to the dump.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Yeah, those are great points, Lisa and Mark.
I think there are anotherchallenges the extremities.
We've seen the rise of Sheenand H&M, zara, early dominant
forces of fast fashion, and justthe value and the lower costs
associated with buying productsfrom these fast fashion
retailers.
It's hard to avoid theattraction of that and that
(06:57):
completely contradicts all thesustainability conversation
we're having now, because theseclothes are disposable fashion,
which it's inherently creatingmore challenges and the
landfills getting filled up more.
So these two competing forcesare there and in the middle is a
consumer who's challenged tomake the budget last and the
cost living increases.
What can retailers really dohere?
(07:20):
I mean it will take economiesof scale and more efficient ways
to make sustainably sourcedproducts, providing that
transparency and around sourcingand procurement to the consumer
that's more conscious of wherethe clothing is coming from.
There's that consumer who maybe the upper end, but the middle
, the lower end consumer, has torely on Sheen and H&M to do the
(07:42):
constraints, but it's verychallenging.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I'm hearing a gap between what people want to
support or purchase.
In that Nielsen IQ study thatwas in our article, 78 percent
of consumers say that asustainable lifestyle is
important to them.
But then there are all theseother challenges in price.
(08:05):
I'm hearing quality price,different options that just go
well.
I believe in that, but it's toocheap to resist buying from
fast fashion Amazon, alibaba,aliexpress type of products.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yeah, definitely.
I think Mark really called itout earlier when he said it's
really about that valueproposition equation on both
sides.
What does the consumer actuallyvalue?
How much are they willing topay for that?
What's the value to them andthe product that you're offering
, as well as for the business?
They need to make money.
They're in here to make aprofit.
(08:44):
So making sure that that workson both sides and you can
increase it and think of it increative ways is how we're going
to get to furthering oursustainability goals for the
future and keeping these thingsout of landfills and making it
work for everyone.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Yeah, I think we're seeing a lot of other ends of
the spectrum of retail.
You see LVMH there'ssustainability initiatives that
are very invested in this spaceand where they're in source from
.
We're seeing near sourcing nowor manufacturing taking place in
Central America, mexico, eventhe US, I think.
Yesterday Columbia Sportswearannounced that they're doing
(09:21):
this partnership with theCentral American manufacturing
company.
I'm not sure how well it tiesto sustainability, but it may
lower the cost of serve and maylower the retail prices to the
supply chain efficiencies.
But like you said, jase, theintent is there, the ambition,
the hope.
We want a better world.
We want to see less mass firesacross the country and all these
(09:43):
environmental challenges we'rehaving.
But how can we do it?
It's affordable and of highquality for its consumer, who is
really challenged in thiseconomy.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
I think there's a lot of ways to kind of parse out
the data too.
For example, it costs whatever$4 for a gallon of gas and that
takes you in a normal car 25miles.
Okay, so that's a trade-offthat most people aren't going to
walk 25 miles to save the $4and to say, hey, I didn't use a
(10:14):
gallon of gas.
We were, as economies, we'reused to what we're used to, and
that's one of the many things Iwas thinking about early in the
conversation when I was talkingabout the value proposition.
There's got to be a valueproposition or else it just
becomes a word salad ofvirtuosity.
One thing that I want to pointout that's on my mind is I
(10:38):
remember several years ago thatPatagonia started making
materials with recycled plasticsand I remember thinking that's
incredible, that's awesome Overon Timber Bottom.
I don't know if it's any goodor not, but I loved the concept.
But that doesn't necessarilytranslate into a better planet
(10:59):
or a lower carbon footprint.
One of the points on thediscussion board was asking me
about my Formula One comment,and Georgianne made a very good
point.
She said that Formula One maybe trying to measure its carbon
footprint.
However, they just tore out abunch of mature trees for a race
(11:20):
in Las Vegas and there's a lotof different.
To her point, there's a lot ofdifferent lanes here.
That's the track and I'm not ashill for Formula One, just
seeing the show people but thetrack is different from the team
.
So you've got to somehow mergeall this together so that it's
(11:41):
affordable, and I think,personally, from my perspective,
we're a long way from it beingaffordable.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Yeah, I think to your point, Mark.
There's a lot of challenge withlegislative nature.
The government hasn'tnecessarily mandated
sustainability practices in theUS market yet, whereas the
maturity curve is way ahead ofus in the EU and other parts of
the world where it's mandated,expected, and I mean perhaps
until that day, whether it's twoor three, four or five years
(12:09):
from now.
Then the affordability factorwill come in, as companies have
to scale up these sustainabilityinitiatives and lower the cost
of service and provide value,whether it's private labels or
lower price goods that are moresustainably sourced because
they're required to by thegovernment.
That might be the spark thatchanges things.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
I think it depends on the product and the industry
that you're in and to definitelyavoid that idea of virtue
signaling.
People are aware now ofgreenwashing and what that means
, and if you're looking for asustainable product, you need to
be truly helping theenvironment.
One example is I'm not sure ifanybody's familiar with the shoe
company Rothy's, which makesall their tennis shoes out of
(12:53):
recycled plastic bottles andthey're a little bit higher
priced than some others, but thevalue in that you can wash them
, they last forever, they'revery comfortable.
So there's really a good or theconsumers are really good value
proposition.
Right, these shoes are going tolast me a long time.
I'm doing something good for theenvironment because they are
(13:14):
made out of recycled plastic.
And one of the more interestingproducts that I've recently
seen was Windex is doing arefill concentrate.
So you get it's like $5 orsomething for a two pack where
you can just refill your bottle.
They're not adding all thatextra water, so supply chain
costs for them.
They're saving that and thenfor the consumer, you just buy
(13:38):
it once, keep refilling it, Net,net.
You're saving money and you'realso, again, you know, doing a
little bit for the environmentin that regard.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
There's a to play off of that point at least.
There's a store up the streetfrom where I live and it's an
independent one store, one doorfront, called Mindful Merchant,
and they allow you to bring tothe example your soap containers
and refill it, and then you payjust for the refill.
It's wonderful, except I don'twant to sound like a curmudgeon
(14:14):
but there's no one ever in there.
So it's a great concept.
I love the concept.
But then you run into branding.
There's so many things tofigure out here to bring a
proper value proposition to usas consumers that I think we're
going to kind of take very smallsteps going forward.
There's not going to be anykind of evolutionary change, and
(14:36):
I see Jay has joined us, soI'll be quiet and let Jay chime
in.
Speaker 6 (14:43):
Hey, sorry, thanks everyone for your patience.
A little technical fun thismorning, yeah, no, I think there
are a number of differentopportunities that we see from
our angle.
We're at Powerhouse Dynamics isa technology company centered
around reducing energyconsumption in multi-site retail
operations, and there's so muchlow hanging fruit when you look
(15:07):
at how these built environmentsare created and operated.
We have the sort of fundamentalculture of the desire to
eliminate waste in its manyforms.
It can be equipment runningunnecessarily in off hours,
equipment that is being poorlymaintained and therefore
(15:28):
consuming a lot more energy, andalso having a shortened life
and ending up in the landfillprematurely.
So from that perspective, Ithink there continues to be an
immense opportunity for bettervisibility, automation and
control to eliminate these kindsof and forms of waste.
That the premise of an either orbetween sustainability and
(15:53):
profitability I think is isfalse.
It's an and.
When you eliminate waste,you're typically helping both.
If you're doing it in athoughtful and intelligent way,
you're helping both.
Right, you're helping toachieve a reduction in carbon
footprints, and typically thatgoes in hand in hand.
At least four practices thatare sustainable, both in terms
(16:14):
of the carbon sense ofsustainability and in terms of
just business practices aregoing to improve those
operations.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Bottom lines you know , jay, you have a unique
perspective and I didn't get tointroduce you, but you have many
over 20 years of experience intech and business and as a
leadership and powerhousedynamics.
You know there is a uniqueperspective here and so far
we've mostly been talking aboutthe challenge of consumers
(16:45):
paying for the premium right, wetalked about the price of
bananas.
You go organic or conventional.
You know it takes somebodywho's either health, health
conscious or ethically consciousto make that choice, to buy the
premium.
It's not always the case thatthe more sustainable product is
(17:08):
is is a higher price.
But I hear from yourperspective.
I am curious.
There's a lot that retailerscan do behind the scenes is from
an operational standpoint.
These are this isn't just, youknow more efficient lighting in
the store.
This is kind of the wholeinfrastructure behind retail.
What kind of perspective couldyou bring to the table here from
(17:33):
from from that angle?
Speaker 6 (17:35):
Yeah, no, it's a great, it's a great question.
I think that there there willbe some, some, some portion of
the market that will pay, gladlypay a premium for products that
are produced with lower carbonintensity, more sustainable
manufacturing practices, laboretc.
And that's all well and good.
You know, when we first startedpowerhouse dynamics more than a
(17:57):
decade ago, we had a very sortof sustainable centric pitch
saying we're going to reducecarbon footprint and that's
wonderful, and some retailersgot it, loved it, kind of
glommed on to that because theyhad some mission around that it
kind of goes hand in hand withfolks willingness to pay a
premium for sustainable products.
(18:18):
But the bulk of the market youkind of got this, you know,
glossy eyed, lack of response,and so we shifted to say well,
it's, it's, yes, sustainabilityis good, but let's just talk
about the bottom line.
So we're always looking forways to drive cost out, and that
(18:38):
tends to be things that kind ofgo hand in hand with
inefficiencies in operations,which then, coincidentally,
drives the carbon intensity ofthese businesses in the downward
trajectory.
So it's not really from aninterest.
You know, we have a uniqueperspective.
We think a lot about the builtenvironments, we think a lot
(18:59):
about mission critical equipment, all this stuff that just kind
of hums along in the backgroundyou you never really pay
attention to until something'swrong with it.
And then of course you knowit's adversely affecting
customer experience etc.
And you want to resolve thesekinds of things.
But there is.
You know, from just the nuts andbolts of running brick and
mortar businesses, there's atremendous opportunity to run
(19:22):
the facilities in a moreintelligent fashion, with
connectivity, with automationand now with AI kind of running.
On top of that, yet even morecapability to reduce the stress
on the electrical grid, reducethe overall carbon intensity,
extend the life of equipment,ensure high performance, etc.
So I, yeah, I, you know again,we're, we're working with any
(19:44):
and all kinds of retailers andmulti site food service
operators.
Some of them have a very sortof sustainable strategy with the
products that they serve andthe kinds of customers that
they're pursuing.
But most don't right, these arenuts and bolts.
You know fast food, restaurants, convenience stores, specialty
(20:05):
small box retail, and you knowagain, there is a there's a
tremendous opportunity there forimproving sustainability
without having to be so, youknow, without necessarily
shifting to say we're going to,you know, all of our plastic
where is going to be plant basedor things like that, because
you know some of the technologyis there and others will take
(20:26):
some more time to mature, Ithink, before it can get sort of
to mass appeal.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
I think you bring up a great point because, as Chase
mentioned, we were talking, youknow, really from a consumer
standpoint, but I one of thethings you see on a day in and
day out basis are pictures ofpeople taking pictures behind
stores.
You know of all this food wasteand all you know products.
They spray painted so no onecan use the pajamas or whatever
product it is, and so I thinksustainability is also key in
(20:55):
thinking about ordering andmaking sure you're using all of
these AI and different tools ateveryone's disposal these days
to do it properly and accurately, so you aren't running into
this situation where people aredumping things behind buildings
and such, because the consumerwill eventually find out, you
know, and then there areconsequences to that.
So, yeah, we do a lot of workin that space as well, very
(21:18):
critical to sustainabilitypractices.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
I think that's a really good point, Lisa.
Informed consumers are going tofind out.
Different stratifications ofconsumers aren't going to find
out and if the price partforgive me at if the price is
right they're probably not goingto care you got.
We have an opportunity as anindustry to educate the value of
(21:43):
the processes that Jay andother people are trying to make
more efficient.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Yeah, I think what Jay brought up is really the
opposite perspective.
The other end is really theupfront.
You know the operationalefficiencies, the cost of
service, so significantduplications, redundancies, the
sheer waste of if you considerthe product development and
manufacturing side and theconceptual design of the
(22:11):
parallel industry generatesmillions and millions of tons of
waste annually.
There are innovations out there.
I worked with with clientsaround digital twins and
leveraging AI and leveraging AR,where you could not have the
manufacturer physical samplesany longer or significantly less
than before and actuallyproduce a high quality sample
(22:32):
and product and just reduce thewaste in the front end.
And always capabilities are outthere.
It's a matter of actuallyleveraging them and reducing the
need to develop physicaldesigns.
The same can be applied to thestore level for grocers, for
retail stores, for departmentstores and leveraging digital
twin to see energy use acrossthe stores and the refrigeration
(22:54):
units within the supermarketare running 24 hours a day.
So there's multiple ways toaddress the challenges of facing
sustainability and carbonfootprints.
This goes to the front end.
Like Mark and Lisa havementioned, is the back end, the
front end, the customer, whereyou have to have an informed
consumer that can make a mindfuldecisions phase, to what they
(23:15):
know.
So it works both ways.
Speaker 6 (23:18):
What's encouraging?
Yeah, thank you, brandon.
What's encouraging to me is, ifyou look at the annual reports
of some of the largest retailchains in the world today versus
what you might have read, say,10 or 15 years ago, it's
remarkable and so encouraging tome that nearly every single one
has carbon reduction goalsX-Prenel 30% by 2030 and 100% by
(23:43):
2050.
You see, actually the 100% by2050,.
I know there's a lot of there'sfederal goals around that as
well, but it's that's hard to do, but they're putting it down in
writing and they're committingto this, to shareholders, to
consumers, and that toucheseverything.
Obviously from my very specificlens of the built environment,
(24:06):
the brick and mortar side, butit touches on product design and
supply chain logistics aroundtheir operations.
It's an incredibly excitingopportunity.
There's going to be a lot ofbusinesses, I think, built and
thrive to support these kinds ofgoals.
There's going to be a lot ofinnovation and transformation of
business, but it's it is.
(24:26):
You never saw that With.
Maybe.
Companies like Patagonia, ofcourse, have been outliers on
this for a long time, but nowmost mainstream multi-site
operators are publicly statingsome pretty darn aggressive and,
from my perspective, highlyencouraging goals to achieve
(24:47):
over the next 20 to 30 years.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
I want to touch on packaging just very briefly
Again.
I think there's so manyopportunities for brands like,
say, apple, to reduce waste withpackaging, and yet here I am,
I've got my little iPhone, I'mtalking to you on a MacBook, and
there was an experience aroundunwrapping all that stuff within
(25:12):
the packaging.
Companies like Apple have anopportunity where I mean, would
you I think I would, I'd feelashamed enough but just go in
and pick up your iPhone, asopposed to have the unbundling
experience, and then you justthrow that beautiful box away.
There's packaging opportunitiesthat are probably going to be
(25:35):
at odds with the marketingdesires of different brands,
because there is a marketingthesis around the beautiful box
that your Apple products come in.
I'm sitting here.
I drink copious amounts ofStarbucks tea.
Every single time it's a newcup.
Well, you know what?
I order it on a mobile order,so I go in and pick my thing up.
(25:56):
I like that.
I don't like throwing thethings away, though.
So how do you?
How do you?
There's, there's going to, Ithink, to your point, jay, we're
going to see an evolution here.
Yeah, I know, but exactlyexactly.
I can't do that.
I can't reuse it.
I'm selfish.
No pun intended on my last name.
I go in and I want to pick upthe thing and I don't want to
(26:19):
sit there and wait and watchthem.
Watch them make it.
So I think there's some reallygood shifts here.
I'm encouraged also your pointbut I think it's going to be
kind of a long, slow road.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Just a quick intro, scott Benedict over 20 years
experience of retail.
He's worked with some of thebiggest, including Walmart, and
you know I've had personalconversations with him and I
needed him to be on this call,so I'm really happy.
So we're talking about allkinds of things, about
(26:52):
sustainability, and we'vecovered a lot about, from the
consumer perspective will theypay for it?
And then from the operationalperspective, you know, managing
orders more effectively,managing ways, all that kind of
thing.
And then you know, scott, youhave, unless Jay had something
on that last point, do you wantto go to Jay real quick?
(27:15):
And then back to Scott?
Speaker 6 (27:17):
Oh, I had a related thing, kind of just from a
personal experience, on thepackaging comment, and just
buying refurbished tends to haveless packaging and I'll say it
related to that.
Another exciting trend that I'mseeing is the whole right to
repair movement and that, youknow, is a pretty also very
encouraging that there seems tobe a shift in, maybe maybe
(27:40):
slightly away from thisdisposable culture to, hey, you
know, full lifecycle, cradle tocradle design of consumer
products and electronicscombined with the right to
repair.
You know, I just swapped outthe batteries in my very old
nest, you know first generationnest thermostats.
I probably will get anotherthree or four years of life out
(28:02):
of them.
I've attempted to swap out thebattery in an iPhone, although
my my fine motor skills aren'tquite good enough for that.
But these are also, I think,related to packaging and
consumer electronic met wholeexperience where I am seeing
much more of a trend ofrefurbished and right to repair,
which will also, I think, drivea lot of sustainability into
(28:25):
the overall kind of consumerproducts realm.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Earlier on in the discussion for you, jay and
Scott, join me to my consciousconsumerism.
I think as much as it's allabout the businesses being
transparent and changing theprocesses and their and their
and go undergo thetransformation.
It's a transformation theconsumer mindset, having Gen Z
children and Munch and Alphachild.
I mean it's their growing worldwhere they're conscious of
(28:49):
their first decisions.
There I mean there's awarenessof the environment, awareness of
sustainability, esg, perhapsthings that we weren't as
conscious of.
It was about mass consumptionsociety of of how much you know
you can consume and and we stillwant that.
But there's balancing out andit's a I think it's a much
cultural society change on theother end and there's also again
(29:11):
we talked about all the forceslike inflation, cost-living
crisis, is housing crisis?
Is that impact our shoppingdecisions?
So this is a lot of conflictingforces out there and we just
discussed how companies have thefine ways to be creative.
But, yeah, certainly interested, we have to say Scott as well.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Well, I think when, jason, I first talked about this
topic, one of the things thatreally drove my passion about it
is the premise, the questionthat retail wire is asked, which
is can you maximizesustainability without
sacrificing profitability?
And I think the answer isabsolutely.
Not only is it yes, but in somecases it enhances profitability
(29:52):
, and I got to see that asWalmart and Sam's Club, when I
was there, adoptedsustainability because it wasn't
just something to manifestitself in product.
It manifests itself in theoperation of the business and
I'm confident you guys haveprobably talked about that
before I joined on.
But if you look at exampleslike the fact that a Walmart or
(30:17):
Sam's Club gets paid to haulaway their recyclable materials
in other words, instead ofpaying someone to pick up their
cardboard and their shrink wrapand that sort of thing, somebody
pays them to come get it soit's actually a profit enhancer.
They've gone through in a lotof stores and not only put in
skylights to reduce electricalusage, but also installed LED
(30:42):
lighting which costs less tooperate than the building costs
less to operate because of thosesustainability measures.
So I think the question is doesit sacrifice profitability?
And the ability to know itenhances it, I think in the
operational side certainly onthe on the purchasing side
(31:03):
number a former buyer what wefound is that, yes, in the early
days there was a tendency thata more sustainable product or
more sustainable product had ahigher cost associated with it.
But I think retailers broadlyhave an opportunity to leverage
(31:23):
consumer interest there to tryand drive those prices down.
And I think we sit here todaywhere the price premium for more
sustainable products is not ashigh as it was when a lot of
companies started that journey,perhaps around 2005, 2006,
somewhere in that area.
In some cases non sustainableproducts have actually in the
(31:47):
marketplace.
The lighting categories mightgo to, example, to where it's
hard to find an incandescentlight bulb on a shelf anymore,
that most light bulbs are LED.
The price premium for them ispretty reasonable now and the
story in the packaging and theproduct is is that, hey, it
(32:08):
saves you electricity in yourhome over the course of time.
And then in the category ofbuyer for electronics,
particularly in televisions andcomputers, there's now messaging
as most TVs are our LEDtechnology of how much the
energy usage is in a typicalyear, and it's it's a rounding
(32:28):
error, it's, it's next tonothing.
Well, tvs to TVs, and someearly plasma TVs were
electricity hogs, quite frankly.
And so now that message thathey, there's a savings to you
for some of these products hasto be sure, now, there's,
(32:48):
there's.
Obviously there's products onthe shelf, particularly in the
food area organically grown orraised eggs or some meat product
.
There's still things that havea premium out there and and and.
Over the course of time, ifthose premiums come down,
obviously it'll become more main, mainstream.
But I think that's the thing.
(33:09):
When the question by chasingthe team first got asked is is
can you, can you go therewithout sacrificing
profitability?
I think the answer isabsolutely yes.
Will a consumer pay a premium?
Well, don't make them.
Figure out a way to not makethem pay a premium, or make that
(33:29):
a very reasonable premium thatthey can find savings on
otherwise.
And that's, I think, how, froma retailer's perspective, how
you address that issue.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
We're all just speechless.
That was.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
I know I could be profound, but I didn't think I
was.
That I don't know.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
We're over the levels of topics, scott.
I think it's.
There's so many facets and somany challenges and it's I think
it's going to be an evolutionof the consumer mindset, but
also an evolution of howcompanies operate and they have
to undergo their own disruptions.
Like Jay mentioned, there's somany capabilities and
innovations that can leverage toreduce the carbon footprint.
(34:09):
There's digital twins, there'sautomation, there's AI, there's
AR.
Just how do you do it in a waythat's cost effective?
Reduced the cost to serve, youknow, enable people to make more
decision and drive moreefficiencies by making a high
quality product that representsa brand.
So it's far more complex thanit looks at the surface from
many angles, and I think Imentioned earlier, once they
(34:33):
become more legislative and it'smore mandated by the government
, then I think we'll see moreefficiency, slash lower prices
for sustainably producedproducts and perhaps even
organic foods.
We all feel the pain every timeyou go to the food store in
this environment where the billis 34% more than it was a couple
of years ago.
So it's going to be a crawl,walk, run.
(34:54):
It's not going to be overnightthing to move to sustainability
in a profitable way.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
I want to politely challenge the legislative and
regulatory observation I meanthese.
If it were that easy, we'd justregulate eating and everything
would be great.
But the governments don'talways they ever have really a
profit motive in mind.
So I'm skeptical of that route.
(35:22):
I like the encouragementperhaps, but if you just say,
hey, by 2030 every car has toget a hundred miles per gallon,
well, we've seen.
I think we've seen someexamples where the automotive
industry just figures out a gamethat they asked in Martin's
case.
They build a little smart carand they don't sell any of them
and now the average miles pergallon goes up because of that
(35:45):
one car in their lineup.
So I think well intentionedregulation has to be merged with
what's really going to workfrom a economic and business
standpoint.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
I think, mark, to that point the consumer will
speak.
The consumer has such aninfluence.
The market will dictate whatcompanies need to do, but if
conscious consumption is on therise and it is with an emerging
Gen Z and Gen Alpha who are muchmore conscious of their
shopping decisions, and thensustainability that will drive
the change.
We need, not just to your point, not just legislative.
(36:19):
I think it's a dual path ofthat legislation plus the market
will dictate how things go.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah Well, mark, also I think that legislation can
come about in two ways.
It can be restrictions, but italso could be incentives
incentives that are a positiveor a negative.
So things like there's a lot ofstates in the Southwest who are
going to have to build morepower production capability if
(36:47):
both consumers and businessesdon't adopt solar panels and
wind and some of these otherthings, and so they put out
their incentives that retailersI know in many cases are taking
advantage of, either as theyrefurbish buildings or as they
build new buildings, to say, hey, if I fill my roof with solar
panels or take advantage ofother renewable sources,
(37:12):
actually there's an incentive ora savings story there that
helps make that more palatable.
So legislation can be used acouple of different ways.
Yes, it can be restrictive, butit also can be provide
incentives to do the thing thatwe'd like to move people towards
, and those incentives thenlower the cost to operate for
(37:33):
businesses like retailers,whether it's a store or
distribution center or whatever.
That can help the process alongas well.
Speaker 6 (37:42):
Right, yeah, just to provide a little more color,
scott, on that, since I'm theenergy nerd on the panel here.
There's a concept called demandresponse which you probably are
familiar with or you'retouching on that in many
unregulated utility markets.
It's a fascinating idea.
It's been around for a while.
It's mostly been hitting largeindustrial facilities.
(38:05):
It's making its way now intoretail because the technologies
are finally there to allow thesekinds of programs, and so
demand response is driven by theconcept, or maybe the epiphany
from utilities that it'sactually cheaper for the utility
to pay you as an energyconsumer to use less energy than
it is for them to try and builda new power plant, the
(38:28):
transmission and distributionlines, the power plant itself.
These are massive investments.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
That's very similar if you think of retailers who
are willing to keep your returnbecause it's cheaper for them
for you to hang onto it than foryou to mail it back, take it to
the store, whatever, so it'smore carrot than stick sort of
situation in saving costswherever you can.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Well, if Jay doesn't make it back.
I think one of the other thingsthat I've seen also is that in
the current world scenario, oneof the great traffic drivers to
a retail store is a fuel station, is a gas station.
So many grocers, so many massmerchants and others have fuel
(39:16):
stations that if you apply thatlogic to an EV based world,
where instead of fuel stationsbeing a traffic driver to a
retail store now chargingstations could be a driver,
there's a benefit, a marketingbenefit and a traffic driving
(39:37):
benefit.
If you've made the investmentin putting a charging station in
there, you're going to drawthat consumer to your store as a
point of differentiation, muchthe way fuel stations have done
today.
Most retailers don't make a tonof money off the fuel station.
It's really if you come and getgas from them.
(39:58):
The chances you're going in thestore are statistically much
higher than if not.
But let me have you made thatpoint, jay, finish your point.
Speaker 6 (40:08):
Well, I'll just extend your buying beer at this
convenience store analogy to you.
Know the positive marketmechanisms can be used to drive
sustainability.
I know I was getting a littlebit nerdy on the energy today,
but anyway, the point is,utilities figured out, it's
cheaper to pay consumers, sobusinesses to turn things down
or turn things off and rewardthem for that when the grid is
(40:29):
stressed.
It doesn't happen every day.
It happens, you know, in themiddle of August when things are
super hot, hey can you knockyour thermostat back by a degree
or two to take a little bit ofrelief and take a little bit of
load off the grid.
They get paid handsomely forparticipating in these programs
and now there's technologies outthere that allow the
aggregation of this loadreduction for the retail market
(40:53):
to broadly participate in thesekinds of things.
Anyway, this is a dynamic wherethe utilities benefit because
it's more profitable for them topay the retailers instead of
building new power plants andinfrastructure.
The retailers benefit becausetypically they can implement
these programs with little to noimpact on consumer experience
and it's just free cash in theirbank account.
(41:16):
So it's a wonderful example ofmarket dynamics.
So the same idea put in the EVcharging station you're going to
sell a lot more beer and candybars, so everyone wins.
So I will just acknowledgeretail Brick and mortar.
It's a really tough industry.
Margens are thin.
(41:37):
I know as someone who issupplying technology for the
purposes of energy reduction.
The metric that we see is ifthis thing doesn't pay for
itself in well, under two yearsyou've lost interest, and that's
without any kind of incentivesetc.
So you've got to findopportunities like that where
you've got these win-win frombasic cut of market dynamics.
(42:00):
Yes, they're reducing energyconsumption, but the investment
they make to get the energyreduction is paying for itself
in 15 months, and those are thekinds of things that we're
seeing really sick.
I mean, it's certainly themodel that's working well for
powerhouse dynamics and thoseare the kinds of initiatives
that really have tractionbecause it's just good business
sense.
In the same way, I think the EVchargers are good business
(42:23):
sense.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Well, this has been such an insightful conversation.
We are at time here.
I just want to thank everyonefor being here.
This is how I think some of thebest ideas are formed and
sculpted.
I'm trying to think of the wordwhere iron sharpens iron.
These are smart minds anddifferent perspectives.
(42:45):
So I've covered a lot of groundand I'm hesitant to do this,
but does anyone want to pickyour favorite out of today's
conversation, any one takeawayor one solution that you would
like to pursue or push?
Speaker 5 (43:05):
I'm going to stop to Jay's earlier point.
I'm going to stop orderingmobile drinks from Starbucks.
Speaker 6 (43:11):
I think Starbucks can fill this up for you.
Yeah, and I'm going to go forone of those.
Speaker 5 (43:15):
I'm just going to make my own tea and then
Starbucks right there.
So I've just done a small bitfor the environment.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
The problem is we have 400 of those reusable cups
and 400 reusable bags, so it'sjust kind of transferred itself
into a different way, notnecessarily sustainable, I would
say.
Speaker 4 (43:40):
Yeah, I think, to tie it back to point Chase, I think
purpose led technologicalinnovations and investments in
capabilities such as digitaltwins and integrating AI into
the mix and automation, thejoint more sustainable
operations, is a big part of theconversation and we're at Jay's
doing and others are doing it'sreally instrumental and I get
the publicity that the front endgets with the customer
(44:02):
experience and the products.
But the cost to serve andoperational cost and the near
sourcing is required andsustainable practices to lower
the cost Our big part of theconversation that doesn't get
the attention it deserves.
So it's these are theconversations that we've had
with retailers and brands andmanufacturers that it's going to
(44:23):
be a lot more prominent in thenext couple of years to make
sure the prices are actuallyreasonable for a consumer who
has sustainable mindsets.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
Yeah, with these razor thin margins that they're
working off of.
I think it's so critical forretailers to look at how their
business practices are affectingtheir overall sustainability
and making sure they're veryconscious about ordering, Very
conscious about their waste andreally looking at the business
across and to end and see wherethey can create efficiencies.
(44:52):
And technology is going tocontinue to drive that and help
us improve overall and thenreally secondarily getting that
messaging out and informingconsumers.
You know there is value in this, in what you're doing, and you
can make a difference in makingsure that value prop is on both
sides.
Speaker 6 (45:09):
And it's a case.
Since you asked for takeaways,I just would say one high level
takeaway is my continuing verystrong sense of optimism.
You've got a lot of smart folkshere, you know, thinking about
this and working on it.
There's a lot of reallyexciting trends that we're
seeing in the industry itself.
That will think it will takesome time, right, to get all the
(45:31):
way to carbon neutral by 2050,but you know, there, because
it's complicated, there's justso many different aspects to it.
But you know that, incombination with some really
exciting trends, you know rightto repair the circular economy.
These kinds of things, perhapsa little bit less material
centric, you know experience forGen Z and younger, you know,
(45:53):
point me to a very optimisticplace.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
It's a marathon chase , not a sprint.
It's an agreement that overtime, and to use innovation from
a sustainability lens where itpresents itself both in product
and the operation of thebusiness.
So I think that's my keytakeaway.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
It's really good.
Appreciate it everyone.
Thank you all for being hereand thanks to everyone listening
.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Thanks everyone.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
We'll see you on the next one.
Thank you, have a good day, bye.
Hello and welcome Good day to everyone.
We've assembled a panel ofindustry experts and we're going
to have a great conversationtoday.
The theme of today issustainability.
We had an article on ourwebsite the title was how Could
Retailers MaximizeSustainability Without
Sacrificing Profitability andturned into a really great
(00:34):
online discussion in thecomments from our Brain Trust
panelists and in this call we'vegot several of them here.
So to kick it off, I'm going togive a little introduction of
each of the panelists and thenwe'll jump right into the topic.
So first off, we have LisaTaylor, director of Retail
(01:00):
Consulting at TPC.
She has masterfully mergedretail expertise with
data-driven strategy and hasspearheaded key initiatives at
Aftec Solutions and Best Buythroughout her career.
So really excited to have youon.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Great Thanks for inviting me, Chase.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Next I'm going to bring on Brandon Rale.
Brandon has strategy andoperations in his background.
He's been part of pivotaltransformations for Fortune 100
retailers and wholesalers.
He's a top retail influencerand a Brain Trust member.
Happy to have you, brandon.
Thank you for the opportunity.
Chase, looking forward to thisconversation.
(01:38):
And then Mark Self familiarface.
He's an executive advisor andthe current CEO in his own
company.
He helps early-stage companiesto success.
Many years of retail experienceand always great insights.
Thanks for being here, mark.
Thanks for having me.
So, to kick it off, I wanted tojust find it right over to
(02:01):
Brandon here.
What are your thoughts on thistopic of sustainability versus
profitability?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
I think there are.
Thank you, chase.
There are competing forces here.
We're seeing the rise ofconcern and more consciousness
from consumers on the importanceof sustainability and the
environment and their impactwith their chopping decisions.
At the same time, the consumeris faced with very disruptive
economic forces.
There is rising inflation,cost-living crisis.
(02:29):
Now we're seeing the housingcrisis emerge again Just the
overall cost of living and allthe geopolitical and
macroeconomic headwinds thatwe're experiencing, especially
in the US market.
Yeah, there's still an interestin sustainability.
There's still an interest ofwhat impact do we have as
consumers to play a positiverole on contributing to the
(02:53):
decrease of the carbon footprintthat each person has?
So, as we know, sustainabilityrequires more premium processes
and products and manufacturing,so there is an increased cost
associated with increased retailcosts to the consumer.
I think the spirit and theambition and the intent is there
from the consumer, but thechallenge is just the limited
(03:16):
budgets and strap wallets thatpeople have now with all the
inflate of all the inflation andcost-living crisis we have.
So I think we can open up forconversation.
I think the big thing we'reseeing in the US is the rise of
the resale market.
The companies like ThreadUp andRent a Rungway are leading the
cause here.
If you look at the US fashionmarket, only for resale it's
(03:38):
going to increase 15% or 16%this year to about $14 million,
and then the expectation is thenext couple of years it should
be forecasted to reach $24billion, and then there are
about three or four times theamount of brands that are
actually interested in startinga resale program.
So that might be the avenue inliabilities, economic
disruptions, where we can see alot of consumption happening and
(04:01):
making a positive impact.
But I'd love to hear at leastyour thoughts and Mark as well
on the topic.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah, I think that's a great call out as you think
about all the current pressuresright now that everyone has
economically.
Anytime we can couple costsavings and along with
sustainability, you're going tosee success.
Best Buy, as an example, hasbegun expanding the number of
outlets.
They have, taking those openbox products, bringing them to
(04:30):
stores specifically, soproviding that avenue for people
to really still get what theyneed without sacrificing quality
but at a lower, reduced price,and keeping those things out of
landfills and reducing thatcarbon footprint.
So I think it's a really goodcall out.
Anytime you can do couple ofthose two things together,
(04:50):
you're going to see a bit ofsuccess.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
From my perspective, sustainability is an important
topic.
However, we need the merchants,brands and retailers need to be
careful that it doesn't turninto another form of virtue
signaling.
It's great when something canget reused and repackaged and
(05:13):
resold and someone saves somemoney that way.
However, if it comes down toI'm just saving landfill, that's
a good thing.
Everybody understands it's agood thing.
However, it doesn't necessarilytranslate into greater profits
or a better value propositionfor the consumer.
(05:35):
So there's a lot of differentstratifications of
sustainability and I thinksimplistically, from my
standpoint, it seems a littlebit like organic foods.
You pay a dollar for a bananathat's grown organically versus
25 cents for one that's not, andyet they both taste the same.
(05:57):
I don't know.
That's a difficult consumerchoice to make, assuming you
have the money to pay the dollarfor the organic banana.
So there's a lot of waysforward here.
I know that high-endmerchandise and even in some
ball things, racing cores likeFormula One teams are starting
(06:19):
to grade themselves onsustainability.
So it's a I like the progressthat we're seeing in the
industry.
However, for it to be fullyadopted, from my perspective,
there needs to be a stronger andstronger value proposition
outside of.
We're just saving stuff fromgoing to the dump.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Yeah, those are great points, Lisa and Mark.
I think there are anotherchallenges the extremities.
We've seen the rise of Sheenand H&M, zara, early dominant
forces of fast fashion, and justthe value and the lower costs
associated with buying productsfrom these fast fashion
retailers.
It's hard to avoid theattraction of that and that
(06:57):
completely contradicts all thesustainability conversation
we're having now, because theseclothes are disposable fashion,
which it's inherently creatingmore challenges and the
landfills getting filled up more.
So these two competing forcesare there and in the middle is a
consumer who's challenged tomake the budget last and the
cost living increases.
What can retailers really dohere?
(07:20):
I mean it will take economiesof scale and more efficient ways
to make sustainably sourcedproducts, providing that
transparency and around sourcingand procurement to the consumer
that's more conscious of wherethe clothing is coming from.
There's that consumer who maybe the upper end, but the middle
, the lower end consumer, has torely on Sheen and H&M to do the
(07:42):
constraints, but it's verychallenging.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I'm hearing a gap between what people want to
support or purchase.
In that Nielsen IQ study thatwas in our article, 78 percent
of consumers say that asustainable lifestyle is
important to them.
But then there are all theseother challenges in price.
(08:05):
I'm hearing quality price,different options that just go
well.
I believe in that, but it's toocheap to resist buying from
fast fashion Amazon, alibaba,aliexpress type of products.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yeah, definitely.
I think Mark really called itout earlier when he said it's
really about that valueproposition equation on both
sides.
What does the consumer actuallyvalue?
How much are they willing topay for that?
What's the value to them andthe product that you're offering
, as well as for the business?
They need to make money.
They're in here to make aprofit.
(08:44):
So making sure that that workson both sides and you can
increase it and think of it increative ways is how we're going
to get to furthering oursustainability goals for the
future and keeping these thingsout of landfills and making it
work for everyone.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Yeah, I think we're seeing a lot of other ends of
the spectrum of retail.
You see LVMH there'ssustainability initiatives that
are very invested in this spaceand where they're in source from
.
We're seeing near sourcing nowor manufacturing taking place in
Central America, mexico, eventhe US, I think.
Yesterday Columbia Sportswearannounced that they're doing
(09:21):
this partnership with theCentral American manufacturing
company.
I'm not sure how well it tiesto sustainability, but it may
lower the cost of serve and maylower the retail prices to the
supply chain efficiencies.
But like you said, jase, theintent is there, the ambition,
the hope.
We want a better world.
We want to see less mass firesacross the country and all these
(09:43):
environmental challenges we'rehaving.
But how can we do it?
It's affordable and of highquality for its consumer, who is
really challenged in thiseconomy.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
I think there's a lot of ways to kind of parse out
the data too.
For example, it costs whatever$4 for a gallon of gas and that
takes you in a normal car 25miles.
Okay, so that's a trade-offthat most people aren't going to
walk 25 miles to save the $4and to say, hey, I didn't use a
(10:14):
gallon of gas.
We were, as economies, we'reused to what we're used to, and
that's one of the many things Iwas thinking about early in the
conversation when I was talkingabout the value proposition.
There's got to be a valueproposition or else it just
becomes a word salad ofvirtuosity.
One thing that I want to pointout that's on my mind is I
(10:38):
remember several years ago thatPatagonia started making
materials with recycled plasticsand I remember thinking that's
incredible, that's awesome Overon Timber Bottom.
I don't know if it's any goodor not, but I loved the concept.
But that doesn't necessarilytranslate into a better planet
(10:59):
or a lower carbon footprint.
One of the points on thediscussion board was asking me
about my Formula One comment,and Georgianne made a very good
point.
She said that Formula One maybe trying to measure its carbon
footprint.
However, they just tore out abunch of mature trees for a race
(11:20):
in Las Vegas and there's a lotof different.
To her point, there's a lot ofdifferent lanes here.
That's the track and I'm not ashill for Formula One, just
seeing the show people but thetrack is different from the team
.
So you've got to somehow mergeall this together so that it's
(11:41):
affordable, and I think,personally, from my perspective,
we're a long way from it beingaffordable.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Yeah, I think to your point, Mark.
There's a lot of challenge withlegislative nature.
The government hasn'tnecessarily mandated
sustainability practices in theUS market yet, whereas the
maturity curve is way ahead ofus in the EU and other parts of
the world where it's mandated,expected, and I mean perhaps
until that day, whether it's twoor three, four or five years
(12:09):
from now.
Then the affordability factorwill come in, as companies have
to scale up these sustainabilityinitiatives and lower the cost
of service and provide value,whether it's private labels or
lower price goods that are moresustainably sourced because
they're required to by thegovernment.
That might be the spark thatchanges things.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
I think it depends on the product and the industry
that you're in and to definitelyavoid that idea of virtue
signaling.
People are aware now ofgreenwashing and what that means
, and if you're looking for asustainable product, you need to
be truly helping theenvironment.
One example is I'm not sure ifanybody's familiar with the shoe
company Rothy's, which makesall their tennis shoes out of
(12:53):
recycled plastic bottles andthey're a little bit higher
priced than some others, but thevalue in that you can wash them
, they last forever, they'revery comfortable.
So there's really a good or theconsumers are really good value
proposition.
Right, these shoes are going tolast me a long time.
I'm doing something good for theenvironment because they are
(13:14):
made out of recycled plastic.
And one of the more interestingproducts that I've recently
seen was Windex is doing arefill concentrate.
So you get it's like $5 orsomething for a two pack where
you can just refill your bottle.
They're not adding all thatextra water, so supply chain
costs for them.
They're saving that and thenfor the consumer, you just buy
(13:38):
it once, keep refilling it, Net,net.
You're saving money and you'realso, again, you know, doing a
little bit for the environmentin that regard.
Speaker 5 (13:51):
There's a to play off of that point at least.
There's a store up the streetfrom where I live and it's an
independent one store, one doorfront, called Mindful Merchant,
and they allow you to bring tothe example your soap containers
and refill it, and then you payjust for the refill.
It's wonderful, except I don'twant to sound like a curmudgeon
(14:14):
but there's no one ever in there.
So it's a great concept.
I love the concept.
But then you run into branding.
There's so many things tofigure out here to bring a
proper value proposition to usas consumers that I think we're
going to kind of take very smallsteps going forward.
There's not going to be anykind of evolutionary change, and
(14:36):
I see Jay has joined us, soI'll be quiet and let Jay chime
in.
Speaker 6 (14:43):
Hey, sorry, thanks everyone for your patience.
A little technical fun thismorning, yeah, no, I think there
are a number of differentopportunities that we see from
our angle.
We're at Powerhouse Dynamics isa technology company centered
around reducing energyconsumption in multi-site retail
operations, and there's so muchlow hanging fruit when you look
(15:07):
at how these built environmentsare created and operated.
We have the sort of fundamentalculture of the desire to
eliminate waste in its manyforms.
It can be equipment runningunnecessarily in off hours,
equipment that is being poorlymaintained and therefore
(15:28):
consuming a lot more energy, andalso having a shortened life
and ending up in the landfillprematurely.
So from that perspective, Ithink there continues to be an
immense opportunity for bettervisibility, automation and
control to eliminate these kindsof and forms of waste.
That the premise of an either orbetween sustainability and
(15:53):
profitability I think is isfalse.
It's an and.
When you eliminate waste,you're typically helping both.
If you're doing it in athoughtful and intelligent way,
you're helping both.
Right, you're helping toachieve a reduction in carbon
footprints, and typically thatgoes in hand in hand.
At least four practices thatare sustainable, both in terms
(16:14):
of the carbon sense ofsustainability and in terms of
just business practices aregoing to improve those
operations.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Bottom lines you know , jay, you have a unique
perspective and I didn't get tointroduce you, but you have many
over 20 years of experience intech and business and as a
leadership and powerhousedynamics.
You know there is a uniqueperspective here and so far
we've mostly been talking aboutthe challenge of consumers
(16:45):
paying for the premium right, wetalked about the price of
bananas.
You go organic or conventional.
You know it takes somebodywho's either health, health
conscious or ethically consciousto make that choice, to buy the
premium.
It's not always the case thatthe more sustainable product is
(17:08):
is is a higher price.
But I hear from yourperspective.
I am curious.
There's a lot that retailerscan do behind the scenes is from
an operational standpoint.
These are this isn't just, youknow more efficient lighting in
the store.
This is kind of the wholeinfrastructure behind retail.
What kind of perspective couldyou bring to the table here from
(17:33):
from from that angle?
Speaker 6 (17:35):
Yeah, no, it's a great, it's a great question.
I think that there there willbe some, some, some portion of
the market that will pay, gladlypay a premium for products that
are produced with lower carbonintensity, more sustainable
manufacturing practices, laboretc.
And that's all well and good.
You know, when we first startedpowerhouse dynamics more than a
(17:57):
decade ago, we had a very sortof sustainable centric pitch
saying we're going to reducecarbon footprint and that's
wonderful, and some retailersgot it, loved it, kind of
glommed on to that because theyhad some mission around that it
kind of goes hand in hand withfolks willingness to pay a
premium for sustainable products.
(18:18):
But the bulk of the market youkind of got this, you know,
glossy eyed, lack of response,and so we shifted to say well,
it's, it's, yes, sustainabilityis good, but let's just talk
about the bottom line.
So we're always looking forways to drive cost out, and that
(18:38):
tends to be things that kind ofgo hand in hand with
inefficiencies in operations,which then, coincidentally,
drives the carbon intensity ofthese businesses in the downward
trajectory.
So it's not really from aninterest.
You know, we have a uniqueperspective.
We think a lot about the builtenvironments, we think a lot
(18:59):
about mission critical equipment, all this stuff that just kind
of hums along in the backgroundyou you never really pay
attention to until something'swrong with it.
And then of course you knowit's adversely affecting
customer experience etc.
And you want to resolve thesekinds of things.
But there is.
You know, from just the nuts andbolts of running brick and
mortar businesses, there's atremendous opportunity to run
(19:22):
the facilities in a moreintelligent fashion, with
connectivity, with automationand now with AI kind of running.
On top of that, yet even morecapability to reduce the stress
on the electrical grid, reducethe overall carbon intensity,
extend the life of equipment,ensure high performance, etc.
So I, yeah, I, you know again,we're, we're working with any
(19:44):
and all kinds of retailers andmulti site food service
operators.
Some of them have a very sortof sustainable strategy with the
products that they serve andthe kinds of customers that
they're pursuing.
But most don't right, these arenuts and bolts.
You know fast food, restaurants, convenience stores, specialty
(20:05):
small box retail, and you knowagain, there is a there's a
tremendous opportunity there forimproving sustainability
without having to be so, youknow, without necessarily
shifting to say we're going to,you know, all of our plastic
where is going to be plant basedor things like that, because
you know some of the technologyis there and others will take
(20:26):
some more time to mature, Ithink, before it can get sort of
to mass appeal.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
I think you bring up a great point because, as Chase
mentioned, we were talking, youknow, really from a consumer
standpoint, but I one of thethings you see on a day in and
day out basis are pictures ofpeople taking pictures behind
stores.
You know of all this food wasteand all you know products.
They spray painted so no onecan use the pajamas or whatever
product it is, and so I thinksustainability is also key in
(20:55):
thinking about ordering andmaking sure you're using all of
these AI and different tools ateveryone's disposal these days
to do it properly and accurately, so you aren't running into
this situation where people aredumping things behind buildings
and such, because the consumerwill eventually find out, you
know, and then there areconsequences to that.
So, yeah, we do a lot of workin that space as well, very
(21:18):
critical to sustainabilitypractices.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
I think that's a really good point, Lisa.
Informed consumers are going tofind out.
Different stratifications ofconsumers aren't going to find
out and if the price partforgive me at if the price is
right they're probably not goingto care you got.
We have an opportunity as anindustry to educate the value of
(21:43):
the processes that Jay andother people are trying to make
more efficient.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Yeah, I think what Jay brought up is really the
opposite perspective.
The other end is really theupfront.
You know the operationalefficiencies, the cost of
service, so significantduplications, redundancies, the
sheer waste of if you considerthe product development and
manufacturing side and theconceptual design of the
(22:11):
parallel industry generatesmillions and millions of tons of
waste annually.
There are innovations out there.
I worked with with clientsaround digital twins and
leveraging AI and leveraging AR,where you could not have the
manufacturer physical samplesany longer or significantly less
than before and actuallyproduce a high quality sample
(22:32):
and product and just reduce thewaste in the front end.
And always capabilities are outthere.
It's a matter of actuallyleveraging them and reducing the
need to develop physicaldesigns.
The same can be applied to thestore level for grocers, for
retail stores, for departmentstores and leveraging digital
twin to see energy use acrossthe stores and the refrigeration
(22:54):
units within the supermarketare running 24 hours a day.
So there's multiple ways toaddress the challenges of facing
sustainability and carbonfootprints.
This goes to the front end.
Like Mark and Lisa havementioned, is the back end, the
front end, the customer, whereyou have to have an informed
consumer that can make a mindfuldecisions phase, to what they
(23:15):
know.
So it works both ways.
Speaker 6 (23:18):
What's encouraging?
Yeah, thank you, brandon.
What's encouraging to me is, ifyou look at the annual reports
of some of the largest retailchains in the world today versus
what you might have read, say,10 or 15 years ago, it's
remarkable and so encouraging tome that nearly every single one
has carbon reduction goalsX-Prenel 30% by 2030 and 100% by
(23:43):
2050.
You see, actually the 100% by2050,.
I know there's a lot of there'sfederal goals around that as
well, but it's that's hard to do, but they're putting it down in
writing and they're committingto this, to shareholders, to
consumers, and that toucheseverything.
Obviously from my very specificlens of the built environment,
(24:06):
the brick and mortar side, butit touches on product design and
supply chain logistics aroundtheir operations.
It's an incredibly excitingopportunity.
There's going to be a lot ofbusinesses, I think, built and
thrive to support these kinds ofgoals.
There's going to be a lot ofinnovation and transformation of
business, but it's it is.
(24:26):
You never saw that With.
Maybe.
Companies like Patagonia, ofcourse, have been outliers on
this for a long time, but nowmost mainstream multi-site
operators are publicly statingsome pretty darn aggressive and,
from my perspective, highlyencouraging goals to achieve
(24:47):
over the next 20 to 30 years.
Speaker 5 (24:50):
I want to touch on packaging just very briefly
Again.
I think there's so manyopportunities for brands like,
say, apple, to reduce waste withpackaging, and yet here I am,
I've got my little iPhone, I'mtalking to you on a MacBook, and
there was an experience aroundunwrapping all that stuff within
(25:12):
the packaging.
Companies like Apple have anopportunity where I mean, would
you I think I would, I'd feelashamed enough but just go in
and pick up your iPhone, asopposed to have the unbundling
experience, and then you justthrow that beautiful box away.
There's packaging opportunitiesthat are probably going to be
(25:35):
at odds with the marketingdesires of different brands,
because there is a marketingthesis around the beautiful box
that your Apple products come in.
I'm sitting here.
I drink copious amounts ofStarbucks tea.
Every single time it's a newcup.
Well, you know what?
I order it on a mobile order,so I go in and pick my thing up.
(25:56):
I like that.
I don't like throwing thethings away, though.
So how do you?
How do you?
There's, there's going to, Ithink, to your point, jay, we're
going to see an evolution here.
Yeah, I know, but exactlyexactly.
I can't do that.
I can't reuse it.
I'm selfish.
No pun intended on my last name.
I go in and I want to pick upthe thing and I don't want to
(26:19):
sit there and wait and watchthem.
Watch them make it.
So I think there's some reallygood shifts here.
I'm encouraged also your pointbut I think it's going to be
kind of a long, slow road.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Just a quick intro, scott Benedict over 20 years
experience of retail.
He's worked with some of thebiggest, including Walmart, and
you know I've had personalconversations with him and I
needed him to be on this call,so I'm really happy.
So we're talking about allkinds of things, about
(26:52):
sustainability, and we'vecovered a lot about, from the
consumer perspective will theypay for it?
And then from the operationalperspective, you know, managing
orders more effectively,managing ways, all that kind of
thing.
And then you know, scott, youhave, unless Jay had something
on that last point, do you wantto go to Jay real quick?
(27:15):
And then back to Scott?
Speaker 6 (27:17):
Oh, I had a related thing, kind of just from a
personal experience, on thepackaging comment, and just
buying refurbished tends to haveless packaging and I'll say it
related to that.
Another exciting trend that I'mseeing is the whole right to
repair movement and that, youknow, is a pretty also very
encouraging that there seems tobe a shift in, maybe maybe
(27:40):
slightly away from thisdisposable culture to, hey, you
know, full lifecycle, cradle tocradle design of consumer
products and electronicscombined with the right to
repair.
You know, I just swapped outthe batteries in my very old
nest, you know first generationnest thermostats.
I probably will get anotherthree or four years of life out
(28:02):
of them.
I've attempted to swap out thebattery in an iPhone, although
my my fine motor skills aren'tquite good enough for that.
But these are also, I think,related to packaging and
consumer electronic met wholeexperience where I am seeing
much more of a trend ofrefurbished and right to repair,
which will also, I think, drivea lot of sustainability into
(28:25):
the overall kind of consumerproducts realm.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Earlier on in the discussion for you, jay and
Scott, join me to my consciousconsumerism.
I think as much as it's allabout the businesses being
transparent and changing theprocesses and their and their
and go undergo thetransformation.
It's a transformation theconsumer mindset, having Gen Z
children and Munch and Alphachild.
I mean it's their growing worldwhere they're conscious of
(28:49):
their first decisions.
There I mean there's awarenessof the environment, awareness of
sustainability, esg, perhapsthings that we weren't as
conscious of.
It was about mass consumptionsociety of of how much you know
you can consume and and we stillwant that.
But there's balancing out andit's a I think it's a much
cultural society change on theother end and there's also again
(29:11):
we talked about all the forceslike inflation, cost-living
crisis, is housing crisis?
Is that impact our shoppingdecisions?
So this is a lot of conflictingforces out there and we just
discussed how companies have thefine ways to be creative.
But, yeah, certainly interested, we have to say Scott as well.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Well, I think when, jason, I first talked about this
topic, one of the things thatreally drove my passion about it
is the premise, the questionthat retail wire is asked, which
is can you maximizesustainability without
sacrificing profitability?
And I think the answer isabsolutely.
Not only is it yes, but in somecases it enhances profitability
(29:52):
, and I got to see that asWalmart and Sam's Club, when I
was there, adoptedsustainability because it wasn't
just something to manifestitself in product.
It manifests itself in theoperation of the business and
I'm confident you guys haveprobably talked about that
before I joined on.
But if you look at exampleslike the fact that a Walmart or
(30:17):
Sam's Club gets paid to haulaway their recyclable materials
in other words, instead ofpaying someone to pick up their
cardboard and their shrink wrapand that sort of thing, somebody
pays them to come get it soit's actually a profit enhancer.
They've gone through in a lotof stores and not only put in
skylights to reduce electricalusage, but also installed LED
(30:42):
lighting which costs less tooperate than the building costs
less to operate because of thosesustainability measures.
So I think the question is doesit sacrifice profitability?
And the ability to know itenhances it, I think in the
operational side certainly onthe on the purchasing side
(31:03):
number a former buyer what wefound is that, yes, in the early
days there was a tendency thata more sustainable product or
more sustainable product had ahigher cost associated with it.
But I think retailers broadlyhave an opportunity to leverage
(31:23):
consumer interest there to tryand drive those prices down.
And I think we sit here todaywhere the price premium for more
sustainable products is not ashigh as it was when a lot of
companies started that journey,perhaps around 2005, 2006,
somewhere in that area.
In some cases non sustainableproducts have actually in the
(31:47):
marketplace.
The lighting categories mightgo to, example, to where it's
hard to find an incandescentlight bulb on a shelf anymore,
that most light bulbs are LED.
The price premium for them ispretty reasonable now and the
story in the packaging and theproduct is is that, hey, it
(32:08):
saves you electricity in yourhome over the course of time.
And then in the category ofbuyer for electronics,
particularly in televisions andcomputers, there's now messaging
as most TVs are our LEDtechnology of how much the
energy usage is in a typicalyear, and it's it's a rounding
(32:28):
error, it's, it's next tonothing.
Well, tvs to TVs, and someearly plasma TVs were
electricity hogs, quite frankly.
And so now that message thathey, there's a savings to you
for some of these products hasto be sure, now, there's,
(32:48):
there's.
Obviously there's products onthe shelf, particularly in the
food area organically grown orraised eggs or some meat product
.
There's still things that havea premium out there and and and.
Over the course of time, ifthose premiums come down,
obviously it'll become more main, mainstream.
But I think that's the thing.
(33:09):
When the question by chasingthe team first got asked is is
can you, can you go therewithout sacrificing
profitability?
I think the answer isabsolutely yes.
Will a consumer pay a premium?
Well, don't make them.
Figure out a way to not makethem pay a premium, or make that
(33:29):
a very reasonable premium thatthey can find savings on
otherwise.
And that's, I think, how, froma retailer's perspective, how
you address that issue.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
We're all just speechless.
That was.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
I know I could be profound, but I didn't think I
was.
That I don't know.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
We're over the levels of topics, scott.
I think it's.
There's so many facets and somany challenges and it's I think
it's going to be an evolutionof the consumer mindset, but
also an evolution of howcompanies operate and they have
to undergo their own disruptions.
Like Jay mentioned, there's somany capabilities and
innovations that can leverage toreduce the carbon footprint.
(34:09):
There's digital twins, there'sautomation, there's AI, there's
AR.
Just how do you do it in a waythat's cost effective?
Reduced the cost to serve, youknow, enable people to make more
decision and drive moreefficiencies by making a high
quality product that representsa brand.
So it's far more complex thanit looks at the surface from
many angles, and I think Imentioned earlier, once they
(34:33):
become more legislative and it'smore mandated by the government
, then I think we'll see moreefficiency, slash lower prices
for sustainably producedproducts and perhaps even
organic foods.
We all feel the pain every timeyou go to the food store in
this environment where the billis 34% more than it was a couple
of years ago.
So it's going to be a crawl,walk, run.
(34:54):
It's not going to be overnightthing to move to sustainability
in a profitable way.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
I want to politely challenge the legislative and
regulatory observation I meanthese.
If it were that easy, we'd justregulate eating and everything
would be great.
But the governments don'talways they ever have really a
profit motive in mind.
So I'm skeptical of that route.
(35:22):
I like the encouragementperhaps, but if you just say,
hey, by 2030 every car has toget a hundred miles per gallon,
well, we've seen.
I think we've seen someexamples where the automotive
industry just figures out a gamethat they asked in Martin's
case.
They build a little smart carand they don't sell any of them
and now the average miles pergallon goes up because of that
(35:45):
one car in their lineup.
So I think well intentionedregulation has to be merged with
what's really going to workfrom a economic and business
standpoint.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
I think, mark, to that point the consumer will
speak.
The consumer has such aninfluence.
The market will dictate whatcompanies need to do, but if
conscious consumption is on therise and it is with an emerging
Gen Z and Gen Alpha who are muchmore conscious of their
shopping decisions, and thensustainability that will drive
the change.
We need, not just to your point, not just legislative.
(36:19):
I think it's a dual path ofthat legislation plus the market
will dictate how things go.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah Well, mark, also I think that legislation can
come about in two ways.
It can be restrictions, but italso could be incentives
incentives that are a positiveor a negative.
So things like there's a lot ofstates in the Southwest who are
going to have to build morepower production capability if
(36:47):
both consumers and businessesdon't adopt solar panels and
wind and some of these otherthings, and so they put out
their incentives that retailersI know in many cases are taking
advantage of, either as theyrefurbish buildings or as they
build new buildings, to say, hey, if I fill my roof with solar
panels or take advantage ofother renewable sources,
(37:12):
actually there's an incentive ora savings story there that
helps make that more palatable.
So legislation can be used acouple of different ways.
Yes, it can be restrictive, butit also can be provide
incentives to do the thing thatwe'd like to move people towards
, and those incentives thenlower the cost to operate for
(37:33):
businesses like retailers,whether it's a store or
distribution center or whatever.
That can help the process alongas well.
Speaker 6 (37:42):
Right, yeah, just to provide a little more color,
scott, on that, since I'm theenergy nerd on the panel here.
There's a concept called demandresponse which you probably are
familiar with or you'retouching on that in many
unregulated utility markets.
It's a fascinating idea.
It's been around for a while.
It's mostly been hitting largeindustrial facilities.
(38:05):
It's making its way now intoretail because the technologies
are finally there to allow thesekinds of programs, and so
demand response is driven by theconcept, or maybe the epiphany
from utilities that it'sactually cheaper for the utility
to pay you as an energyconsumer to use less energy than
it is for them to try and builda new power plant, the
(38:28):
transmission and distributionlines, the power plant itself.
These are massive investments.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
That's very similar if you think of retailers who
are willing to keep your returnbecause it's cheaper for them
for you to hang onto it than foryou to mail it back, take it to
the store, whatever, so it'smore carrot than stick sort of
situation in saving costswherever you can.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Well, if Jay doesn't make it back.
I think one of the other thingsthat I've seen also is that in
the current world scenario, oneof the great traffic drivers to
a retail store is a fuel station, is a gas station.
So many grocers, so many massmerchants and others have fuel
(39:16):
stations that if you apply thatlogic to an EV based world,
where instead of fuel stationsbeing a traffic driver to a
retail store now chargingstations could be a driver,
there's a benefit, a marketingbenefit and a traffic driving
(39:37):
benefit.
If you've made the investmentin putting a charging station in
there, you're going to drawthat consumer to your store as a
point of differentiation, muchthe way fuel stations have done
today.
Most retailers don't make a tonof money off the fuel station.
It's really if you come and getgas from them.
(39:58):
The chances you're going in thestore are statistically much
higher than if not.
But let me have you made thatpoint, jay, finish your point.
Speaker 6 (40:08):
Well, I'll just extend your buying beer at this
convenience store analogy to you.
Know the positive marketmechanisms can be used to drive
sustainability.
I know I was getting a littlebit nerdy on the energy today,
but anyway, the point is,utilities figured out, it's
cheaper to pay consumers, sobusinesses to turn things down
or turn things off and rewardthem for that when the grid is
(40:29):
stressed.
It doesn't happen every day.
It happens, you know, in themiddle of August when things are
super hot, hey can you knockyour thermostat back by a degree
or two to take a little bit ofrelief and take a little bit of
load off the grid.
They get paid handsomely forparticipating in these programs
and now there's technologies outthere that allow the
aggregation of this loadreduction for the retail market
(40:53):
to broadly participate in thesekinds of things.
Anyway, this is a dynamic wherethe utilities benefit because
it's more profitable for them topay the retailers instead of
building new power plants andinfrastructure.
The retailers benefit becausetypically they can implement
these programs with little to noimpact on consumer experience
and it's just free cash in theirbank account.
(41:16):
So it's a wonderful example ofmarket dynamics.
So the same idea put in the EVcharging station you're going to
sell a lot more beer and candybars, so everyone wins.
So I will just acknowledgeretail Brick and mortar.
It's a really tough industry.
Margens are thin.
(41:37):
I know as someone who issupplying technology for the
purposes of energy reduction.
The metric that we see is ifthis thing doesn't pay for
itself in well, under two yearsyou've lost interest, and that's
without any kind of incentivesetc.
So you've got to findopportunities like that where
you've got these win-win frombasic cut of market dynamics.
(42:00):
Yes, they're reducing energyconsumption, but the investment
they make to get the energyreduction is paying for itself
in 15 months, and those are thekinds of things that we're
seeing really sick.
I mean, it's certainly themodel that's working well for
powerhouse dynamics and thoseare the kinds of initiatives
that really have tractionbecause it's just good business
sense.
In the same way, I think the EVchargers are good business
(42:23):
sense.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Well, this has been such an insightful conversation.
We are at time here.
I just want to thank everyonefor being here.
This is how I think some of thebest ideas are formed and
sculpted.
I'm trying to think of the wordwhere iron sharpens iron.
These are smart minds anddifferent perspectives.
(42:45):
So I've covered a lot of groundand I'm hesitant to do this,
but does anyone want to pickyour favorite out of today's
conversation, any one takeawayor one solution that you would
like to pursue or push?
Speaker 5 (43:05):
I'm going to stop to Jay's earlier point.
I'm going to stop orderingmobile drinks from Starbucks.
Speaker 6 (43:11):
I think Starbucks can fill this up for you.
Yeah, and I'm going to go forone of those.
Speaker 5 (43:15):
I'm just going to make my own tea and then
Starbucks right there.
So I've just done a small bitfor the environment.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
There you go.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
The problem is we have 400 of those reusable cups
and 400 reusable bags, so it'sjust kind of transferred itself
into a different way, notnecessarily sustainable, I would
say.
Speaker 4 (43:40):
Yeah, I think, to tie it back to point Chase, I think
purpose led technologicalinnovations and investments in
capabilities such as digitaltwins and integrating AI into
the mix and automation, thejoint more sustainable
operations, is a big part of theconversation and we're at Jay's
doing and others are doing it'sreally instrumental and I get
the publicity that the front endgets with the customer
(44:02):
experience and the products.
But the cost to serve andoperational cost and the near
sourcing is required andsustainable practices to lower
the cost Our big part of theconversation that doesn't get
the attention it deserves.
So it's these are theconversations that we've had
with retailers and brands andmanufacturers that it's going to
(44:23):
be a lot more prominent in thenext couple of years to make
sure the prices are actuallyreasonable for a consumer who
has sustainable mindsets.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
Yeah, with these razor thin margins that they're
working off of.
I think it's so critical forretailers to look at how their
business practices are affectingtheir overall sustainability
and making sure they're veryconscious about ordering, Very
conscious about their waste andreally looking at the business
across and to end and see wherethey can create efficiencies.
(44:52):
And technology is going tocontinue to drive that and help
us improve overall and thenreally secondarily getting that
messaging out and informingconsumers.
You know there is value in this, in what you're doing, and you
can make a difference in makingsure that value prop is on both
sides.
Speaker 6 (45:09):
And it's a case.
Since you asked for takeaways,I just would say one high level
takeaway is my continuing verystrong sense of optimism.
You've got a lot of smart folkshere, you know, thinking about
this and working on it.
There's a lot of reallyexciting trends that we're
seeing in the industry itself.
That will think it will takesome time, right, to get all the
(45:31):
way to carbon neutral by 2050,but you know, there, because
it's complicated, there's justso many different aspects to it.
But you know that, incombination with some really
exciting trends, you know rightto repair the circular economy.
These kinds of things, perhapsa little bit less material
centric, you know experience forGen Z and younger, you know,
(45:53):
point me to a very optimisticplace.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
It's a marathon chase , not a sprint.
It's an agreement that overtime, and to use innovation from
a sustainability lens where itpresents itself both in product
and the operation of thebusiness.
So I think that's my keytakeaway.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
It's really good.
Appreciate it everyone.
Thank you all for being hereand thanks to everyone listening
.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Thanks everyone.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
We'll see you on the next one.
Thank you, have a good day, bye.
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