October 16, 2025 • 20 mins
Hello Mindsetters! Welcome to Episode 3 of The Retired Mindset—and trust us, this one is something special.
Podcast host Bob Preston's guest today is aviation royalty. Rogers E. Smith—“Rog” to his friends—is a former Royal Canadian Air Force pilot, Air National Guard veteran, and NASA test pilot who spent nearly two decades at the legendary Dryden (now Neil Armstrong) Flight Research Center at Edwards Air Force Base.
During his incredible career, Rog flew some of the world’s most advanced aircraft: the X-29, X-31, F-15, F-16, and F-18 jets. But his crown jewel? Eight years in the cockpit of the SR-71 Blackbird—the world’s fastest airplane. We’re talking 85,000 feet and over Mach 3—more than 2,300 miles per hour. Yes, faster than a speeding bullet.
Beyond his jaw-dropping resume, Rog is a man of humility and depth. One of his quotes that stuck with me is: “Money is necessary, but it’s not a sufficient ingredient for fulfillment in life.”
That wisdom is what makes this conversation perfect for The Retired Mindset—a deep look at how purpose and passion evolve when the afterburners of our careers shut off and we enter new airspace: retirement.
We recorded this episode on location in beautiful Coronado, California, and we’re releasing this story in two parts.
- Part 1 (this episode): Rog’s incredible aviation journey—from fighter pilot to NASA test pilot—and the lessons learned along the way.
- Part 2 (coming soon): Rog’s personal philosophy on leadership, passion, and life after NASA, including his work today as a consultant, volunteer, and member of the Mountain Host and Safety Team at Mammoth Mountain.
Key Takeaways:
- The mindset and courage it takes to fly experimental aircraft at Mach 3+
- Why humility and curiosity matter more than speed or status
- Rog’s reflections on fulfillment beyond career achievements
- How to carry leadership, purpose, and passion into retirement
Join us as we post new episodes weekly!
Connect with Bob: BobbyP@theretiredmindset.com, LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube.
Listen on: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart, TheRetiredMindset.com.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rogers E. Smith (00:00):
The SR 71 could fly as high as by the book it
could fly higher, but the themargin to safety was reducing if
you went higher.
The book answer was 85,000 feetand mock 3.2 means 3.2 times
the speed of sound.
So that translates at 85,000feet.
(00:22):
3.2 is roughly speaking 2,300miles per hour.
Bob Preston (Host) (00:36):
Welcome to the Retired Mindset Podcast,
where soul meets body.
Hosted by me, Bob Preston.
Embrace the retirement journeyof transformative insights,
inspiring conversations, withnew episodes produced weekly.
Hello, mindsetters, Bob Prestonhere.
(00:59):
Welcoming you to episode threeof the Retired Mindset.
This one's going to besomething very special because
today I'll be joined by a manthat I am, quite frankly,
honored to be able to call myfriend, someone I deeply admire,
and I'm honestly humbled thathe agreed to come on the
podcast.
When you think of aviationlegends, some names pop into
(01:23):
one's mind, like maybe theWright brothers or Chuck Yeager.
They might come to mind.
Well, my guest today, quitefrankly, belongs right up there
with those amazing men.
He's a former Royal CanadianAir Force pilot who went on to
serve in the Air National Guard,retiring there as a lieutenant
colonel, and then went on to anearly two-decade career as a
(01:47):
test pilot at NASA's DrydenResearch Center, which is now
known as the Neil ArmstrongFlight Research Center at
Edwards Air Force Base inCalifornia.
This is the place for testpilots.
And during his time there, heflew some of the world's most
advanced aircraft.
The X-29, X-31, and the F-15,16, and 18 class jets.
(02:12):
But the crown jewel of hiscareer?
Eight years flying thelegendary SR-71 Blackbird, the
world's fastest airplane, areconnaissance jet that for 25
years was in a class all of itsown, soaring at 85,000 feet and
at speeds of Mach 3.2.
That's over three times thespeed of sound or around 2,300
(02:37):
miles per hour.
Yep, this guy faster than aspeeding bullet.
His name is Rogers E.
Smith, known by his friendssimply as Raj.
Beyond his incredible career,what makes him truly remarkable
is his humility and his outlookon life.
In preparing for this episode,I watched a TED talk that he
(02:58):
gave, and one thing he saidreally stuck with me, and that
is that money is necessary, butit's not sufficient as an
ingredient for fulfillment inlife.
I thought that was amazing.
It is exactly these kinds ofintangibles that make a
conversation with Raj aonce-in-a-lifetime experience,
and he's a perfect guest for theRetired Mindset podcast.
(03:21):
To address the impactretirement can have on the human
spirit.
I think you're going to lovethis conversation.
It is recorded on location inbeautiful Coronado, California.
Here's the thing.
And look, this can happen whenfilming on location.
We had it all prepared, set up,but we had some technical
(03:43):
glitches along the way, whichprevented us from capturing the
latter portion of our plannedconversation and content.
Rather than delay the wholething, we're going to produce
and publish it in two parts.
Part one, which we captured inthis first session together,
will focus on Raj's backgroundand amazing career.
(04:03):
Part two, coming in a week orso, will cover Raj's philosophy
and core values on leadershipand passion and how they applied
not only to his previouscareer, but also to his current
life in retirement as aconsultant, volunteer, and
member with me of the host andski safety team at Mammoth
(04:24):
Mountain.
So sit back, enjoy part one,and get ready to be inspired.
All right, let's dive in.
Rogers, thank you so much forbeing on the retired mindset
today.
Rogers E. Smith (04:37):
Bob, it's my pleasure to have you with me in
Coronado.
Bob Preston (Host) (04:42):
Oh my god, look at look at the look at the
background we get today.
Is this awesome?
So really excited about that.
I quipped in my episodeprologue that you truly are a
man who is faster than aspeeding bullet, right?
Okay.
And so what I'd like you to do,I always start by asking my
guests to introduce themselves,maybe a little bit about your
background, your current life,and maybe you can explain that
(05:04):
faster than a speeding bulletthing, okay?
Would that be a great place tostart?
Rogers E. Smith (05:08):
Sure, that's fine.
Yeah.
So I uh it starts way back along time ago.
Uh my passion was to be apilot, and specifically a
technical pilot and a testpilot, and to go to school and
study engineering, aeronauticalengineering.
So people often ask me many ofthe same questions that you do
(05:28):
about how do I develop thispassion?
Well, I'd never been in anairplane.
When I was six years old, I cameto Toronto and Canada, and my
favorite uncle was in the SecondWorld War training people over
in England how to fly beams andso on.
And he was my hero.
So he was a pilot, and that'swhat I wanted to be.
(05:49):
Okay.
So when I finally got throughschool and I couldn't, my
parents could not afford to sendme to university.
So I joined a program that'ssimilar to the one in the United
States, ROTC.
It was called ROTP.
This was in Canada.
So they paid my way throughuniversity.
And because I wanted to studyaeronautics, I was supposed to
(06:10):
go to the military college, butI was allowed to go to
University of Toronto.
And that's where I studiedaeronautical engineering and
eventually got a master'sdegree.
So we can, in the ensuingconversations, talk a little bit
about some of the details asyou ask questions.
Sure.
But my desire was to be a pilotso I could go to and be an
(06:33):
engineer and a test pilot.
And through the good offices ofthe Canadian Air Force, who
paid my way through universityand actually paid me $75 a
month, paid for my books, paidfor everything.
And so I, in the summers, I wentto pilot training.
And the first airplane that Iever was in, I never was a
(06:55):
passenger, was in the CanadianAir Force training, and we
called it a Harvard, it's calleda T6 here.
Pretty big airplane to be thefirst one you ever stepped
inside.
But I took training in thesummers.
Each summer was nice, contrastto university.
And then finally I graduatedand I went off to the final
(07:17):
phase of training.
And during that time, I wasoffered a scholarship back at
the University of Toronto at theInstitute of Aerospace Studies
to get a master's degree inionical engineering.
So one of the people that wasthe commander on the base that I
was at in Manitoba and Canada.
I knew him because I was asoftball player, a fast pitch
(07:41):
player that was good enough toplay on the station team as a
cadet.
So I played shortstop on theteam.
And so therefore I knew him alittle bit.
So I asked if I could get aninterview with him.
So I went to his office andexplained I got this offer for
nine months, a fellowship to goback and study.
And should I do that?
It'd be right in the middle ofmy training, final training.
(08:02):
For a graduate degree.
And so he literally picked upthe phone and called
headquarters in Ottawa, said, Ihave this cadet here, named me,
and said he's got this offer andhe should take it.
And I want him to get ninemonths leave without pay from
the Air Force.
So this is by way of saying allthe people that influenced me
(08:23):
along the way.
I was lucky enough to havepeople open doors that I wanted
to see open, and I had to putforth the effort, but my passion
was to be a test pilot.
And for us, I wanted, I comefrom Canada and north of British
Columbia.
Had nothing to do with skiinguntil I was in Europe with the
(08:44):
Canadian Air Force after Igraduated from pilot training,
where I started skiing.
Bob Preston (Host) (08:48):
Okay, you weren't one of those James Bond
guys, like back with a rifle onhis back chasing people on skis.
Rogers E. Smith (08:54):
No, no, no. But that ultimately connecting with
us led me to live, work forNASA in Edwards Air Force Base
near Lancaster in California.
So from there we went, myfamily and I went up to Mammoth
to ski on weekends.
And ultimately we said, whydon't we see if we can buy a
(09:15):
house up here?
Wonderful.
Which in 1997, 1997 bought ahouse and joined the host
program at Mammoth as a ski hoston the mountain.
And then last year you came onthat same program, and that's
how we met, and that's why we'resitting here now.
Bob Preston (Host) (09:32):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, that's how Roger and Imet, everybody.
We worked together, even thoughwe're both technically retired.
I think Roger has some sidehustle still as well.
But I was gonna save this forlater in the episode, but since
you brought it up, I think I'llI'll mention it now.
Because I can, you know, Ican't tell you.
You did something for me, and Ican't tell you how much it
(09:53):
meant to me at a time.
When I first joined the hostprogram, I loved it.
Then the second year I took onmore of a leadership role as a
lead, right?
You remember that?
Yeah, I do.
And I don't remember if youknow this conversation, but I
think I do.
Okay, awesome.
A lot of the hosts who had beendoing this for a long time, you
know, they they were kind ofgiving me the business a little
(10:13):
bit about being a lead.
Like, you know, I I could Icould read the room and I knew,
you know, that there was someskepticism.
But you didn't do that.
You you I so I don't know ifyou remember this, but you you
were different.
You came up to me and you said,Bob, we need more people like
you.
I'm paraphrasing here, so itmay not be verbatim.
But if you ever have anyquestions or if I can be any
(10:37):
help, don't hesitate to ask.
And I just really was impressedby that, and that made my day
and just really made thattransition easier for me.
So I want to thank you forthat, actually.
I was gonna do it later in theepisode, but since it came up.
Rogers E. Smith (10:49):
Now, I I remember the conversation and I
certainly sense the atmospherethat you talked about.
What I do now is I when I havethe opportunities as a
consultant, I have gone tocompanies and I I just interview
people one-on-one, answer aquestion ultimately as a
reporter.
For example, in lots ofaerospace companies, big and
(11:13):
small, they want to know do wehave a safety culture here?
Yeah.
And so that's dependent ondiscipline on the part of the
individuals.
It's dependent on dependent onpeople being good teammates,
controlling their own ego.
It's also dependent onleadership, being a proper
leader and caring about people.
(11:33):
Yeah.
And so I know I know theconversation I told a quick
story to you that is pertinentto what you said.
And it it doesn't matter aboutthe circumstances, the veracity
of that.
It matters the story goes thatPresident Kennedy was down at
Cape Canaveral with hisentourage touring before we put
(11:54):
a man on the moon.
And so he's wandering the hallswith his group, going from A to
B.
He sees a cleaning guy with hisapparatus at the side of the
hallway, goes over andintroduces himself.
Imagine it's a shock to thecleaning man, and said, Oh, the
pertinent part is he said, Oh,what do you do here?
(12:15):
And he replied, I'm helping toput a man on the moon.
Oh my goodness.
So that capture.
I do remember that story.
Yeah.
That captures leadership.
What leaders do is make peoplefeel like they're not important
in the sense of being high inthe hierarchy, but they're
(12:35):
important to the overallobjectives.
So for me, I'm important to theobjective up for the guests up
there, but you are now put in aposition where you have a role
to play with the same purpose.
Yeah.
And so if you feel like youwant to include people to make
them feel like you're part of,as opposed to, I'm the boss,
(12:57):
you're nothing, and I'm tellingyou what to do.
That doesn't win any of thekind of response that you want.
True.
But as you told the story andas I added to it, that's what
leadership's all about.
No question about it.
Bob Preston (Host) (13:10):
By the way, he's been doing the host
program.
This is how we met.
We we ski together or we ski onthe same mountain in Mammoth
together.
He's been doing it for 25 yearsas a host and mountain safety
team member.
He still is out there almostevery day doing this thing.
I was in my second year, so Iwas kind of a newbie still.
And he showed me the respect tocome and give me those kind
words.
And I just I just reallyappreciate it.
(13:30):
Now I have a term for thesekind of people.
Okay.
Can I share my metaphor?
Of course.
Okay, so I refer to people whoare kind-hearted and show
leadership and welcoming spirit,you did.
I call them trail angels.
I don't know if you've everheard that term.
I haven't, but that's well,trail angel is a person if
you're ever hiking out on thetrail, you meet and they're
(13:51):
like, you know, just showing youthe right way, maybe pulling
out their map and they're kindof, you get it, you get it,
right?
Well, the metaphorical trailangel are those that help you
adapt in certain situations asyou're making a path in life, or
maybe in a new role or in a newcircumstance.
And so, you, my friend, youknow, one of the first trail
angels that I had ever met.
(14:11):
And so I wanted to say thankyou for that.
Good.
Well, yeah.
So anyway, you could tell youcould tell somebody that
sometime that, hey, yeah, I wasBob's uh trail angel.
Okay, so I want you to go backand explain the speeding bullet
part.
We didn't get to that, right?
You had a nice summary.
We're gonna get more detailedon your on your background and
(14:33):
your career.
Rogers E. Smith (14:33):
But well, at the at NASA, the kind of one of
the last big stops that I madein my career.
And I just happened to bearrived at the time that NASA
received the we're retiring theSR-71 Blackbird, which is a very
special airplane that flew as arecon reconnaissance airplane,
(14:55):
mainly secretly, for 25 yearsfor this country.
The unique advantage it had itcould fly faster and higher than
anyone.
Bob Preston (Host) (15:06):
How high did it fly?
Rogers E. Smith (15:07):
So the the nominal the book answer is
85,000 feet.
Would you take it high?
Bob Preston (Host) (15:13):
Would you ever sneak a little higher?
Rogers E. Smith (15:15):
Well, I think I went as high as 87.
Okay.
So they and there's nothing,it's an airplane that you have
to fly in certain corridors foreverything to work.
And if people really wanted tounderstand the SR-71 Blackbird,
they could go on YouTube andthere's an explanation of all
the technology that's there.
(15:35):
It's called the InsaneEngineering in the SR-71.
Bob Preston (Host) (15:40):
Still in a world, even though that plane is
retired, it's still on a classof its own.
Rogers E. Smith (15:44):
Yeah, it still is the fastest air-breathing
vehicle that we at least admitto.
And I'm not suggesting I knowdifferently, but so I'm I'm
going to teach a class inNovember at the Test Pilot
School for a week in Canada, inLondon, Ontario, the
International Test Pilot School.
So in fact, I'm just preparingall the various slides I have,
(16:07):
PowerPoint for that.
And one of the slides that Ihave goes goes up and says, yes,
I did, fly faster than abullet.
Bob Preston (Host) (16:17):
All right, okay.
Rogers E. Smith (16:18):
So the SR 71 could fly as high as by the
book, it could fly higher, butthe the margin to safety was
reducing if you went higher.
But the book answer is 85,000feet, and Mach, 3.2.
Means 3.2 times the speed ofsound.
Bob Preston (Host) (16:37):
Okay.
Rogers E. Smith (16:38):
So that translates at 85,000 feet.
3.2 is roughly speaking 2,300miles per hour.
Incredible.
And many muzzle velocities ofmany known rifles and guns are
not as fast as that.
Bob Preston (Host) (16:55):
Yeah, faster than the speeding bullet right
here.
Rogers E. Smith (16:57):
So I truly did fly.
I was lucky enough to get thereat the right time.
And so I ended up as a pilot,test pilot, not just a pilot, a
test pilot, because we didthings trying to uh do
experiments with the SR-71 tosupport, you know, a national
space plane, which never didmaterialize.
But we did a lot of uh researchflying.
(17:19):
So we flew with uh a rocket onthe back that we never did fire
all the elements requiredbecause carrying hydrogen gas is
very, very tricky.
And you don't want leaks and soon.
So it's a whole story there,but eight years I flew as a
pilot, one of the pilots.
We had two pilots designated onevery airplane that we flew.
(17:44):
And I flew at then calledDryden Flight Research Center in
NASA.
If there's utopia to go to fora test pilot, that's it.
Bob Preston (Host) (17:53):
The creme de la creme of flying, basically.
Rogers E. Smith (17:56):
And I was I was at uh Cornell Aeronautical
Laboratory in Buffalo, New York,where in fact I met my second
wife, Judy, that you met thismorning.
And so when I did some work onthe special airplanes we had,
which was the first examples ofusing computers in flight so
that one pilot could fly at thecontrols and make inputs to the
(18:18):
computer, and we could add orsubtract to the model of the
airplane so we'd fly eithertrying to simulate a new fighter
or just doing research.
We could use these specialflying simulators that were the
forerunner of fly by wire.
Sure.
So I did work out at NASArelated to the space shuttle,
(18:39):
and the man I flew with uh was acouple of weeks twice.
After a month after I we flewthe last time, he became the
chief pilot.
So he called me.
For the space shuttle?
No, he at NASA Dryden.
We were the aeronauticalresearch this year.
Bob Preston (Host) (18:56):
By the way, Dryden is now Armstrong.
Armstrong, yes.
Yeah, so named after NeilArmstrong, who most of us.
Rogers E. Smith (19:03):
So I don't want to wander through Yeah, yeah,
yeah.
I can when I first walked inwith Tom McMurtry, was now the
chief pilot, the one I did thatexperiment with.
When I was ultimately hired,because he told me to want to
why don't you put in anapplication, which I did.
Ultimately he hired, he choseme.
And when I was introduced tothe office to the other pilots,
(19:26):
Bill Dana is a famous man thatI'll mention later.
Bob Preston (Host) (19:30):
Thank you for joining us today on the
retired mindset.
And please join me in the nearfuture for part two of my
interview with NASA test pilotRogers is a rocket power, not an
air brake, a rocket.
Rogers E. Smith (19:44):
So he made the last flight in that Bill Dana.
Anyway, Tom McMurray'spointing, you're gonna sit at
that desk over there oppositeBill Dana, and so on, around the
room, and I'm like, these arepeople in my gods in my world.
The SR 71 could fly as high as by the book it
could fly higher, but the themargin to safety was reducing if
you went higher.
The book answer was 85,000 feetand mock 3.2 means 3.2 times
the speed of sound.
So that translates at 85,000feet.
(00:22):
3.2 is roughly speaking 2,300miles per hour.
Bob Preston (Host) (00:36):
Welcome to the Retired Mindset Podcast,
where soul meets body.
Hosted by me, Bob Preston.
Embrace the retirement journeyof transformative insights,
inspiring conversations, withnew episodes produced weekly.
Hello, mindsetters, Bob Prestonhere.
(00:59):
Welcoming you to episode threeof the Retired Mindset.
This one's going to besomething very special because
today I'll be joined by a manthat I am, quite frankly,
honored to be able to call myfriend, someone I deeply admire,
and I'm honestly humbled thathe agreed to come on the
podcast.
When you think of aviationlegends, some names pop into
(01:23):
one's mind, like maybe theWright brothers or Chuck Yeager.
They might come to mind.
Well, my guest today, quitefrankly, belongs right up there
with those amazing men.
He's a former Royal CanadianAir Force pilot who went on to
serve in the Air National Guard,retiring there as a lieutenant
colonel, and then went on to anearly two-decade career as a
(01:47):
test pilot at NASA's DrydenResearch Center, which is now
known as the Neil ArmstrongFlight Research Center at
Edwards Air Force Base inCalifornia.
This is the place for testpilots.
And during his time there, heflew some of the world's most
advanced aircraft.
The X-29, X-31, and the F-15,16, and 18 class jets.
(02:12):
But the crown jewel of hiscareer?
Eight years flying thelegendary SR-71 Blackbird, the
world's fastest airplane, areconnaissance jet that for 25
years was in a class all of itsown, soaring at 85,000 feet and
at speeds of Mach 3.2.
That's over three times thespeed of sound or around 2,300
(02:37):
miles per hour.
Yep, this guy faster than aspeeding bullet.
His name is Rogers E.
Smith, known by his friendssimply as Raj.
Beyond his incredible career,what makes him truly remarkable
is his humility and his outlookon life.
In preparing for this episode,I watched a TED talk that he
(02:58):
gave, and one thing he saidreally stuck with me, and that
is that money is necessary, butit's not sufficient as an
ingredient for fulfillment inlife.
I thought that was amazing.
It is exactly these kinds ofintangibles that make a
conversation with Raj aonce-in-a-lifetime experience,
and he's a perfect guest for theRetired Mindset podcast.
(03:21):
To address the impactretirement can have on the human
spirit.
I think you're going to lovethis conversation.
It is recorded on location inbeautiful Coronado, California.
Here's the thing.
And look, this can happen whenfilming on location.
We had it all prepared, set up,but we had some technical
(03:43):
glitches along the way, whichprevented us from capturing the
latter portion of our plannedconversation and content.
Rather than delay the wholething, we're going to produce
and publish it in two parts.
Part one, which we captured inthis first session together,
will focus on Raj's backgroundand amazing career.
(04:03):
Part two, coming in a week orso, will cover Raj's philosophy
and core values on leadershipand passion and how they applied
not only to his previouscareer, but also to his current
life in retirement as aconsultant, volunteer, and
member with me of the host andski safety team at Mammoth
(04:24):
Mountain.
So sit back, enjoy part one,and get ready to be inspired.
All right, let's dive in.
Rogers, thank you so much forbeing on the retired mindset
today.
Rogers E. Smith (04:37):
Bob, it's my pleasure to have you with me in
Coronado.
Bob Preston (Host) (04:42):
Oh my god, look at look at the look at the
background we get today.
Is this awesome?
So really excited about that.
I quipped in my episodeprologue that you truly are a
man who is faster than aspeeding bullet, right?
Okay.
And so what I'd like you to do,I always start by asking my
guests to introduce themselves,maybe a little bit about your
background, your current life,and maybe you can explain that
(05:04):
faster than a speeding bulletthing, okay?
Would that be a great place tostart?
Rogers E. Smith (05:08):
Sure, that's fine.
Yeah.
So I uh it starts way back along time ago.
Uh my passion was to be apilot, and specifically a
technical pilot and a testpilot, and to go to school and
study engineering, aeronauticalengineering.
So people often ask me many ofthe same questions that you do
(05:28):
about how do I develop thispassion?
Well, I'd never been in anairplane.
When I was six years old, I cameto Toronto and Canada, and my
favorite uncle was in the SecondWorld War training people over
in England how to fly beams andso on.
And he was my hero.
So he was a pilot, and that'swhat I wanted to be.
(05:49):
Okay.
So when I finally got throughschool and I couldn't, my
parents could not afford to sendme to university.
So I joined a program that'ssimilar to the one in the United
States, ROTC.
It was called ROTP.
This was in Canada.
So they paid my way throughuniversity.
And because I wanted to studyaeronautics, I was supposed to
(06:10):
go to the military college, butI was allowed to go to
University of Toronto.
And that's where I studiedaeronautical engineering and
eventually got a master'sdegree.
So we can, in the ensuingconversations, talk a little bit
about some of the details asyou ask questions.
Sure.
But my desire was to be a pilotso I could go to and be an
(06:33):
engineer and a test pilot.
And through the good offices ofthe Canadian Air Force, who
paid my way through universityand actually paid me $75 a
month, paid for my books, paidfor everything.
And so I, in the summers, I wentto pilot training.
And the first airplane that Iever was in, I never was a
(06:55):
passenger, was in the CanadianAir Force training, and we
called it a Harvard, it's calleda T6 here.
Pretty big airplane to be thefirst one you ever stepped
inside.
But I took training in thesummers.
Each summer was nice, contrastto university.
And then finally I graduatedand I went off to the final
(07:17):
phase of training.
And during that time, I wasoffered a scholarship back at
the University of Toronto at theInstitute of Aerospace Studies
to get a master's degree inionical engineering.
So one of the people that wasthe commander on the base that I
was at in Manitoba and Canada.
I knew him because I was asoftball player, a fast pitch
(07:41):
player that was good enough toplay on the station team as a
cadet.
So I played shortstop on theteam.
And so therefore I knew him alittle bit.
So I asked if I could get aninterview with him.
So I went to his office andexplained I got this offer for
nine months, a fellowship to goback and study.
And should I do that?
It'd be right in the middle ofmy training, final training.
(08:02):
For a graduate degree.
And so he literally picked upthe phone and called
headquarters in Ottawa, said, Ihave this cadet here, named me,
and said he's got this offer andhe should take it.
And I want him to get ninemonths leave without pay from
the Air Force.
So this is by way of saying allthe people that influenced me
(08:23):
along the way.
I was lucky enough to havepeople open doors that I wanted
to see open, and I had to putforth the effort, but my passion
was to be a test pilot.
And for us, I wanted, I comefrom Canada and north of British
Columbia.
Had nothing to do with skiinguntil I was in Europe with the
(08:44):
Canadian Air Force after Igraduated from pilot training,
where I started skiing.
Bob Preston (Host) (08:48):
Okay, you weren't one of those James Bond
guys, like back with a rifle onhis back chasing people on skis.
Rogers E. Smith (08:54):
No, no, no. But that ultimately connecting with
us led me to live, work forNASA in Edwards Air Force Base
near Lancaster in California.
So from there we went, myfamily and I went up to Mammoth
to ski on weekends.
And ultimately we said, whydon't we see if we can buy a
(09:15):
house up here?
Wonderful.
Which in 1997, 1997 bought ahouse and joined the host
program at Mammoth as a ski hoston the mountain.
And then last year you came onthat same program, and that's
how we met, and that's why we'resitting here now.
Bob Preston (Host) (09:32):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, that's how Roger and Imet, everybody.
We worked together, even thoughwe're both technically retired.
I think Roger has some sidehustle still as well.
But I was gonna save this forlater in the episode, but since
you brought it up, I think I'llI'll mention it now.
Because I can, you know, Ican't tell you.
You did something for me, and Ican't tell you how much it
(09:53):
meant to me at a time.
When I first joined the hostprogram, I loved it.
Then the second year I took onmore of a leadership role as a
lead, right?
You remember that?
Yeah, I do.
And I don't remember if youknow this conversation, but I
think I do.
Okay, awesome.
A lot of the hosts who had beendoing this for a long time, you
know, they they were kind ofgiving me the business a little
(10:13):
bit about being a lead.
Like, you know, I I could Icould read the room and I knew,
you know, that there was someskepticism.
But you didn't do that.
You you I so I don't know ifyou remember this, but you you
were different.
You came up to me and you said,Bob, we need more people like
you.
I'm paraphrasing here, so itmay not be verbatim.
But if you ever have anyquestions or if I can be any
(10:37):
help, don't hesitate to ask.
And I just really was impressedby that, and that made my day
and just really made thattransition easier for me.
So I want to thank you forthat, actually.
I was gonna do it later in theepisode, but since it came up.
Rogers E. Smith (10:49):
Now, I I remember the conversation and I
certainly sense the atmospherethat you talked about.
What I do now is I when I havethe opportunities as a
consultant, I have gone tocompanies and I I just interview
people one-on-one, answer aquestion ultimately as a
reporter.
For example, in lots ofaerospace companies, big and
(11:13):
small, they want to know do wehave a safety culture here?
Yeah.
And so that's dependent ondiscipline on the part of the
individuals.
It's dependent on dependent onpeople being good teammates,
controlling their own ego.
It's also dependent onleadership, being a proper
leader and caring about people.
(11:33):
Yeah.
And so I know I know theconversation I told a quick
story to you that is pertinentto what you said.
And it it doesn't matter aboutthe circumstances, the veracity
of that.
It matters the story goes thatPresident Kennedy was down at
Cape Canaveral with hisentourage touring before we put
(11:54):
a man on the moon.
And so he's wandering the hallswith his group, going from A to
B.
He sees a cleaning guy with hisapparatus at the side of the
hallway, goes over andintroduces himself.
Imagine it's a shock to thecleaning man, and said, Oh, the
pertinent part is he said, Oh,what do you do here?
(12:15):
And he replied, I'm helping toput a man on the moon.
Oh my goodness.
So that capture.
I do remember that story.
Yeah.
That captures leadership.
What leaders do is make peoplefeel like they're not important
in the sense of being high inthe hierarchy, but they're
(12:35):
important to the overallobjectives.
So for me, I'm important to theobjective up for the guests up
there, but you are now put in aposition where you have a role
to play with the same purpose.
Yeah.
And so if you feel like youwant to include people to make
them feel like you're part of,as opposed to, I'm the boss,
(12:57):
you're nothing, and I'm tellingyou what to do.
That doesn't win any of thekind of response that you want.
True.
But as you told the story andas I added to it, that's what
leadership's all about.
No question about it.
Bob Preston (Host) (13:10):
By the way, he's been doing the host
program.
This is how we met.
We we ski together or we ski onthe same mountain in Mammoth
together.
He's been doing it for 25 yearsas a host and mountain safety
team member.
He still is out there almostevery day doing this thing.
I was in my second year, so Iwas kind of a newbie still.
And he showed me the respect tocome and give me those kind
words.
And I just I just reallyappreciate it.
(13:30):
Now I have a term for thesekind of people.
Okay.
Can I share my metaphor?
Of course.
Okay, so I refer to people whoare kind-hearted and show
leadership and welcoming spirit,you did.
I call them trail angels.
I don't know if you've everheard that term.
I haven't, but that's well,trail angel is a person if
you're ever hiking out on thetrail, you meet and they're
(13:51):
like, you know, just showing youthe right way, maybe pulling
out their map and they're kindof, you get it, you get it,
right?
Well, the metaphorical trailangel are those that help you
adapt in certain situations asyou're making a path in life, or
maybe in a new role or in a newcircumstance.
And so, you, my friend, youknow, one of the first trail
angels that I had ever met.
(14:11):
And so I wanted to say thankyou for that.
Good.
Well, yeah.
So anyway, you could tell youcould tell somebody that
sometime that, hey, yeah, I wasBob's uh trail angel.
Okay, so I want you to go backand explain the speeding bullet
part.
We didn't get to that, right?
You had a nice summary.
We're gonna get more detailedon your on your background and
(14:33):
your career.
Rogers E. Smith (14:33):
But well, at the at NASA, the kind of one of
the last big stops that I madein my career.
And I just happened to bearrived at the time that NASA
received the we're retiring theSR-71 Blackbird, which is a very
special airplane that flew as arecon reconnaissance airplane,
(14:55):
mainly secretly, for 25 yearsfor this country.
The unique advantage it had itcould fly faster and higher than
anyone.
Bob Preston (Host) (15:06):
How high did it fly?
Rogers E. Smith (15:07):
So the the nominal the book answer is
85,000 feet.
Would you take it high?
Bob Preston (Host) (15:13):
Would you ever sneak a little higher?
Rogers E. Smith (15:15):
Well, I think I went as high as 87.
Okay.
So they and there's nothing,it's an airplane that you have
to fly in certain corridors foreverything to work.
And if people really wanted tounderstand the SR-71 Blackbird,
they could go on YouTube andthere's an explanation of all
the technology that's there.
(15:35):
It's called the InsaneEngineering in the SR-71.
Bob Preston (Host) (15:40):
Still in a world, even though that plane is
retired, it's still on a classof its own.
Rogers E. Smith (15:44):
Yeah, it still is the fastest air-breathing
vehicle that we at least admitto.
And I'm not suggesting I knowdifferently, but so I'm I'm
going to teach a class inNovember at the Test Pilot
School for a week in Canada, inLondon, Ontario, the
International Test Pilot School.
So in fact, I'm just preparingall the various slides I have,
(16:07):
PowerPoint for that.
And one of the slides that Ihave goes goes up and says, yes,
I did, fly faster than abullet.
Bob Preston (Host) (16:17):
All right, okay.
Rogers E. Smith (16:18):
So the SR 71 could fly as high as by the
book, it could fly higher, butthe the margin to safety was
reducing if you went higher.
But the book answer is 85,000feet, and Mach, 3.2.
Means 3.2 times the speed ofsound.
Bob Preston (Host) (16:37):
Okay.
Rogers E. Smith (16:38):
So that translates at 85,000 feet.
3.2 is roughly speaking 2,300miles per hour.
Incredible.
And many muzzle velocities ofmany known rifles and guns are
not as fast as that.
Bob Preston (Host) (16:55):
Yeah, faster than the speeding bullet right
here.
Rogers E. Smith (16:57):
So I truly did fly.
I was lucky enough to get thereat the right time.
And so I ended up as a pilot,test pilot, not just a pilot, a
test pilot, because we didthings trying to uh do
experiments with the SR-71 tosupport, you know, a national
space plane, which never didmaterialize.
But we did a lot of uh researchflying.
(17:19):
So we flew with uh a rocket onthe back that we never did fire
all the elements requiredbecause carrying hydrogen gas is
very, very tricky.
And you don't want leaks and soon.
So it's a whole story there,but eight years I flew as a
pilot, one of the pilots.
We had two pilots designated onevery airplane that we flew.
(17:44):
And I flew at then calledDryden Flight Research Center in
NASA.
If there's utopia to go to fora test pilot, that's it.
Bob Preston (Host) (17:53):
The creme de la creme of flying, basically.
Rogers E. Smith (17:56):
And I was I was at uh Cornell Aeronautical
Laboratory in Buffalo, New York,where in fact I met my second
wife, Judy, that you met thismorning.
And so when I did some work onthe special airplanes we had,
which was the first examples ofusing computers in flight so
that one pilot could fly at thecontrols and make inputs to the
(18:18):
computer, and we could add orsubtract to the model of the
airplane so we'd fly eithertrying to simulate a new fighter
or just doing research.
We could use these specialflying simulators that were the
forerunner of fly by wire.
Sure.
So I did work out at NASArelated to the space shuttle,
(18:39):
and the man I flew with uh was acouple of weeks twice.
After a month after I we flewthe last time, he became the
chief pilot.
So he called me.
For the space shuttle?
No, he at NASA Dryden.
We were the aeronauticalresearch this year.
Bob Preston (Host) (18:56):
By the way, Dryden is now Armstrong.
Armstrong, yes.
Yeah, so named after NeilArmstrong, who most of us.
Rogers E. Smith (19:03):
So I don't want to wander through Yeah, yeah,
yeah.
I can when I first walked inwith Tom McMurtry, was now the
chief pilot, the one I did thatexperiment with.
When I was ultimately hired,because he told me to want to
why don't you put in anapplication, which I did.
Ultimately he hired, he choseme.
And when I was introduced tothe office to the other pilots,
(19:26):
Bill Dana is a famous man thatI'll mention later.
Bob Preston (Host) (19:30):
Thank you for joining us today on the
retired mindset.
And please join me in the nearfuture for part two of my
interview with NASA test pilotRogers is a rocket power, not an
air brake, a rocket.
Rogers E. Smith (19:44):
So he made the last flight in that Bill Dana.
Anyway, Tom McMurray'spointing, you're gonna sit at
that desk over there oppositeBill Dana, and so on, around the
room, and I'm like, these arepeople in my gods in my world.
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