Episode 80: 'Faith in the Fire: A 9/11 Survival Story' with Darin Kinder

For 25 years and 4 months, Darin Kinder served as a U.S. Secret Service agent—protecting five presidents, traveling to over 40 countries, and even riding mountain bikes alongside President George W. Bush. He’s seen history up close, from D-Day’s 75th anniversary in Normandy to the frontlines of the world’s most dangerous assignments. But nothing compared to September 11, 2001.

That morning, Darin was inside 7 World Trade Center when the first plane struck. Minutes later, he was on the street rendering aid to a burn victim when the second plane hit the South Tower. Twice he sprinted for his life as the towers collapsed.

In this gripping and deeply personal episode, Darin shares:

• Life as a Secret Service agent

• 9/11 through his eyes: survival, service, and sacrifice at Ground Zero

• The spiritual power of doing the next thing—faith as daily obedience

• The danger of tunnel vision in life, career, and family

• Why safe and comfortable isn’t our calling—obedience is

• The meaning behind his book title: “Bury Me in a Dirty Suit”

This is more than a survival story. It’s a challenge to live on mission, to embrace faith in the fire, and to spend our lives getting our suits dirty for the Kingdom.

📖 Resources & Links

• 📘 Book: Bury Me in a Dirty Suit on Amazon

• 🌐 Ministry: Fierce Faith

• 🌐 Speaking & Keynotes: DarinKinder.com

Episode Transcript

(00:11):
Hey everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Rev RX
Podcast. This is episode 80 and I'm so
excited about our guest today. I want to ask you a question
first. Where were you on 9/11/2001,
probably the biggest event of our generation.
Well, our guest, Darren Kinder, he's an author.
He's a retired Secret Service agent.

(00:33):
He happened to be at the World Trade Center on that fateful
day. You're going to hear all about
911. From a personal first hand point
of view. Darren not only escaped with his
life, he helped others. He did whatever it took that day
to survive and to help others survive.
Darren has an incredible story. He's written a book about it

(00:54):
which was just released. You're going to want to listen
to this one from beginning to end, guys.
This one is powerful, impactful,and I can't wait for you to hear
how it has shaped his faith and given his life purpose.
Without further ado, I introduced to you my new friend
Darren Kinder. Darren, brother, what a

(01:17):
privilege it is to have you hereon the show.
I've loved our time of discussion and prayer before we
jumped on here, but welcome to the Rev RX podcast.
Thanks so much for being here. It's my pleasure, Chad.
This, this is a really cool thing that you're doing and I'm
glad to be a part of it. Yes, Sir.
I'd love for our audience just to kind of get a snapshot of, of
who you are because there's so much to unpack there.

(01:38):
But if you could kind of give usan elevator pitch of, of man,
who is Darren Kinder, what wouldyou say to that?
And just kind of give us a synopsis of how you got to where
you are today. Yeah, sure.
I'll start with the parts that people think are interesting and
then I'll end with the part thatI think is the most important,
which is, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm 51 years old.
That's my stage of life. I have four sons, been married

(01:58):
for 27 years. But professionally, I started
out as a, as a high school history teacher for about 3 or 4
years. And then I became a a special
agent with the US United States Secret Service and I was a
Secret Service agent for 25 years and four months.
I refused to give up the four months I earned every bit.
Of there you go. Also, people find interesting,
I'm a survivor of the 9/11 attacks in the World Trade

(02:21):
Center on September 11, 2001. All of that is I'm an author of
a new book that just came out just a few weeks ago that we'll
talk about. You know, more than anything,
I'm a, I'm a, I'm a devoted father, a faithful husband, and
a sold out believer in Jesus Christ.
And that is just who I am in a nutshell.
I love that. That's what's drawn me to you,
brother, is not just your careerpath, which is fascinating, and

(02:44):
not just your survival on 9/11, which is an act of God that we
thank him for, yes, But the factthat you are a sold out believer
in Christ and your message is one that that I think that the
masses need to hear. And I'm excited to bring it to
my audience today. Selfishly, though, I am very,
very enthralled by your Secret Service service.

(03:07):
This had a thing, your experience as a USSS agent.
Tell us a little bit about, are there some memorable experiences
stand out to you? I know on September 14th, there
was George W Bush. I know that was memorable.
We'll get to that in a minute. But you've, you've been to 40
countries. You protected dignitaries,
leaders, you protected presidents, former presidents,
vice presidents. What are some of the most

(03:29):
memorable moments that you take home after those 25 years and
four months? Thank you in four months.
Had to add that in. Yeah, you know, there's a lot to
reflect on. And then my last few months,
I've only been retired now like 3 months.
You know, you do get reflected when you know, you're moving
from one stage of life or transition in life. 25 plus

(03:50):
years, like you said, 40 plus countries protected in some part
of five US presidents from Clinton all the way up to Trump.
So, yeah, there's A, and sometimes I feel like I was, I
was the Forrest Gump of the Secret Service because every
time there's like a major event or, or just a big turning point
or something, I seem to be involved at least at least

(04:11):
tangently. So that's, that's hard to narrow
down for me. But the foreign travel was
probably my, my favorite part ofit in Africa.
I seem to be drawn to Africa. I had really interesting
experiences in Tanzania, in Botswana, Gosh, the, the
neighbor neighboring country is it's, it's escaping me now.

(04:32):
But Ethiopia was a was a big onefor me.
I went there about four times inmy career.
And on one particular trip, I got really involved in the, the
lowland, the southern region of of Ethiopia along the Omo River
Valley. And then just going from one
tribe to another. I was with a former, a certain
former president at that point and just fascinating.

(04:52):
Just it's almost like getting ina time machine, right?
And going back and these tribes,each one was different.
We would, we had this small fleet of helicopters and we
would just bounce around all over southern Ethiopia and we'd
hit one tribe and it was like something out of National
Geographic, right? Your stereotypical African tribe
and, and what you would think you would see.
And then you, you know, you get in a helo and you fly 30 minutes

(05:15):
and you land another tribe and you got, you got guys wearing
Nike shirts and it's just, it's just in the very Western eye and
they got baseball hats on and stuff.
Amazing. Very, it was just awesome. 11
moment that sticks out in my mind is I was present at the
75th anniversary ceremony of theNormandy invasion D-Day and that

(05:39):
was in gosh, now I'm testing myself 2019.
I believe that was powerful. I'm a history nerd love history.
I got some just some fond memories throughout my time of
going to Athens and exploring and being in the Middle East and
then being in on the Jordan River and so forth.
But this one particular incidentin Normandy, France, 5th

(06:02):
anniversary we get there 100 like some so oh, dark early,
right, just disgustingly early. And I getting all situated and
President Trump was was coming to was to arrive at the site
later that morning and I was literally as the sun was coming
up on on on June 6th, 2019. The sun's coming up.
I'm standing on top of a German pillbox, a German bunker box

(06:25):
looking over at Omaha beach. It just as a as a student of
history just took me back like exactly 75 years earlier.
The same sun was coming up and there was probably several young
German soldiers inside this bunker, bunker pillbox and
they're looking at 6000 ships inthe straight right and carrying

(06:45):
I believe was like 140,000 Allied soldiers and just the awe
and the majesty that, that would, that would, that would be
upon them. I just kind of put myself there
and then, you know, then my nextI'm looking down as the science
coming up and I'm looking at thestrategic advantage of that high
ground. It was so steep, the incline and
how narrow the beach was. And I'm thinking how difficult

(07:09):
it would have been to to, to exit those landing craft, get on
the beach, move up the beach andtry to take out these fun.
And it's just again. So then I'm thinking, wow, what,
what an impressive group of young men it took to storm these
beaches and take these beaches. Just incredibly, incredibly
powerful. And then on the fun side of the

(07:30):
house, I was one of my collateral duties as a Secret
Service agent was I was a rescueswimmer, AUS rescue swimmer.
So, you know, anytime a protectee would would be on a
boat or on a raft on a river doing something fishing and
rafting or whale watching and, and all kinds of things, I was
part of the rescue element that was out there on the water to in

(07:51):
case something went boom or in case there was just an accident
or something like that. And that led to some really
awesome experiences. And when I was on the former
President Bush detail, I was oneof his mountain bike riders.
So he's an avid mountain bike rider and I was one of the
riders. So I was referred to for a short
time as the recreational agent because every time we were on a
bike or on the water, I was there that.

(08:11):
Was you? Yeah.
So many fond memories of those more relaxed times.
It's never relaxed, but more just a relaxed, more informal
setting I guess. Yeah.
Love it. And you know what's interesting?
So that that span of presidents that you protected got a few
Republicans, got a few Democrats.
Politics can't Co go into the picture there, right?

(08:32):
Absolutely not. Yeah.
And, and that's foreign, I thinkin our, in our American world
today, to be able to, to, to be able to press out any
viewpoints, beliefs and simply protect the person that you,
you've been tasked to protect. What was that like to just be
able to have to, to have to justlet all that go and do your job?

(08:54):
Or was it that easy? I mean, it was is drilled into
you from day one, right? I believe that the that the
United States Secret Service to this day is still one of the
last, one of the few last remaining truly apolitical
organizations within the federalgovernment.
And it has to be, I mean, it's drilled into you from day one.

(09:14):
You do not protect this president or that president,
this president or that vice president.
You protect the Office of the Presidency of the United States.
Period. That's good.
And the oath that you swear is to the Constitution.
It is not to this party or that party or that candidate or this.
Nope. You swear an oath to the
Constitution to protect it, to defend it from enemies foreign

(09:37):
and domestic. So, and that's just taking very
seriously. So I had, I guess in my time,
I'm thinking through my head, yeah, three, you know, 3
Democratic presidents, two Republican presidents, didn't
matter. The unofficial, they'll never
say this publicly. The unofficial motto of the USC
good for service was you elect them, we protect them.
I like that period. Yeah.
And it was, it was that simple. So you had to stuff that you

(09:59):
still have to be willing to makethe sacrifice.
You know, agents, Secret Serviceagents get, most people get paid
for what they do and that's, andthat's good.
Secret Service agents also get paid for what they're prepared
to do, and that did not. That did not matter who was in
the office. That's right, that's right.
And I imagine that would be hard, but that is just part of
the job and miss, I appreciate you sharing about that.

(10:20):
Now let's Fast forward a little bit one we're we're interviewing
today on on September 12th, 2025.
It's the day after the 24th anniversary of 9/11, 1001.
You find yourself in New York City.
I did not realize that there were, what, 7 World Trade Center

(10:41):
buildings? That's right.
As part of that complex in your book, you describe that you
actually have a map, which is helpful.
I'm visual. Give me a map.
I can picture that better. You were in one of those.
And on the morning of September 11th, you were getting dressed,
preparing for your day. And I'd love to just kind of
hear your tail, your take on what happened next.

(11:04):
Yeah, your. Secret Service takes you there.
You're in the Secret Service building.
Yeah, as I make it clear in the in the book, I was young and
dumb. Well then, I'm 41 and I still
feel young. And at least the second part of
that, right? So, yeah, we were.
I was in the locker room, the gym locker room of our gym and
seven World Trade Center, just getting putting on a clean suit

(11:26):
and getting ready to tackle the day when we felt a slight rumble
and we were being told to evacuate moments later.
At that point, we dumped out onto the street and we're
literally directly across the street 20 yards from the north
tower, the north side of the north tower.
And that's where the first planehad impacted.
Not knowing what was going on orreally the totality of the

(11:47):
circumstances, I knew we were under attack.
I knew that this was not an accident, Chad.
We just jumped into first responder mode.
I mean, this was not our missionset.
This is not what we typically would do.
It had nothing to do with our, our standard mission, but we
chose, we made it, made a choiceto enter in right.
And what I call do, do the next thing.
Just there's a problem, whether that's that's human suffering
and pain in our personal lives or there's an issue that needs

(12:09):
to be solved in front of us. Let's just go knock it down and
see what happens next. And so, but that's what I was
doing. We were had grabbed our first
aid kits. I was rendering first aid to
this woman who was badly burned.And when this massive explosion
just right over the top of my head and the second plane came
in like a missile with brutal precision and just obliterated
by that side of the South tower.And I was, I don't know, 80

(12:31):
yards or so from the base, I could feel the heat on the back
of my neck. And so at that point, we're
scattered like ants. I mean, there's debris and
raining jet fuel everywhere. And yeah, that's when the day
took a turn for even the worse. Did you realize you knew it
wasn't an accident, you knew enough about history and there
have been previous things there at the World Trade Center as
well in the past. Were you aware that it was
airplanes that have flown in or what was your thought process

(12:53):
through that? Yeah, I assumed it was bombs of
some nature. And that's the kind of the the
weird part of my story is all throughout the day.
And they didn't know that plane,that 767 jet airliners full of
jet fuel had slammed into these buildings.
Right. And I know in all of the facts,
I may, I may not have done, I'm honest about it in the book.
I may not have done some of the things that I did because I

(13:14):
thought there was no way those towers could come down.
And in fact, I told people that don't worry, these things can't
come down. But even though I was on the
street and that thing was right over my head, I never saw the
plane or heard the plane becauseI had tunnel vision on my
victim. Many people that I work with for
years have issues like triggering issues when they
heard a jet plane that loud. I never heard it.

(13:36):
So I never had that issue. But but I didn't know.
I didn't know I knew her under attack.
Yeah, you say in the book, and Ilove this, that you're honest
and you're authentic and you're real.
And you say, you know, if I'd have known the full scale of
what was going on, I might have chosen differently.
And, and I think that that's relatable.
But you're quick to say the realheroes that day were the ones

(13:59):
who did realize exactly what wasgoing on, and they acted anyway.
Can you expound on that a littlebit?
Because on this, yesterday was aday of remembrance for us.
And I just love to get your takeon those first responders.
The book is dedicated to the 422first responders who died that
day in New York City. A men and women who who knew the
cost, knew the threat and answered the bell anyways.

(14:20):
Yesterday was day of remembranceand that is good.
Never forget. That's the mantra.
But I want to honor them. So the book, Part 1 of the
objectives of the book was to honor them.
But I tell everybody, and that'sone of the driving forces in the
book, is the way that we honor their lives is is to from this
day and every day moving forward, we live lives of
service and sacrifice. That's right.
Serving something greater than ourselves.

(14:41):
And in the Christian walk that is exponentially even more
powerful. So one of the stories that I
tell in the book I believe is powerful is I was in the North
Tower. We had gone in to help people
escape and we had carried a few people down.
But I encountered a large group of New York City firefighters on
the 30th floor or so of the north tower.
And I had a brief conversation interaction with them.

(15:02):
And then I decided to go back down because I had been
separated from, from my colleagues.
And as I'm going down, you know,from the book, I heard their
fire commander say, get your gear together.
Boys were going back up. They had already been up and
they were refitting and regrouping.
And now they're going back. And that's the difference I
make. The distinction that I go at

(15:24):
links to making a book is unlikeme.
They knew the facts. They they had a much clearer,
they had communication. They had a much clearer
assessment. They knew the temperatures that
were getting up there. And Chad, they went up anyways.
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, if you're looking for
911 heroes, there's 422 of them.Absolutely.
I get chills when you tell that story, same as I did when I read

(15:45):
it the first time. Absolutely incredible that the
the bravery and the courage, andwe'll talk about courage in a
minute. The courage of those guys to
purposely put themselves in harm's way because there were
others that needed them. It doesn't get any.
Yeah. So others may live.
That's right. You've mentioned before and I, I
kind of want to hit on this a little bit and I want to bring

(16:06):
faith into it because a lot of what you do is you interweave.
You do this in a marvelous way. You interweave your story and
you show the revelations that God's given you about your story
in retrospect and you're able totalk about faith components that
are practical to our daily lives.
And one of them is this doing the next thing.

(16:26):
I find myself just man, I could,I feel like I could read your
book in one setting because it'sfast-paced.
Like, you know, you're like everybody kind of knows somewhat
of the story, somewhat of the storyline, but the way you tell
it, you have a way with words and that's, that's really
incredible. But like you find yourself
rooting for you because you're like, well, what's it going to
do next? You know, what's this young and

(16:47):
dumb guy? I'm not calling you that, but
I'm using your words. What's this guy going to do
next? And so you find yourself, OK, so
you're doing the next thing you're you're rendering aid to
that person. And then you talk about Skyfall,
when those buildings that you said could not fall begin to
fall first, the first one, and you start taking off because

(17:10):
there's just pillars of dust everywhere, you can't see
anything. Right.
And you do the next thing, and you're trying to find your way
through the dark. I want to talk about doing the
next thing and how that relates to our faith.
Because, man, I'm a planner, OK?If you could see my planner
right, you would laugh at me. I'm such a planner that God's

(17:34):
helping me with it. He's trying to help me overcome
this because He's trying to showme if you plan too much, you
don't leave room for the Holy Spirit, you don't leave, you
don't leave room for my plans. But if I like to prepare, and in
some ways you could say that because of that, I like to have
control. And I think that's maybe
something we all deal with to some degree.
I want to know the full story. I want to know what I'm getting

(17:54):
into. I want to know when God calls me
to do something, what the outcomes going to be.
But you know what God shows us time and time again in
Scripture? That's not faith.
Faith is taking the next step, doing the next thing, and
trusting that God will handle the outcome.
And that's kind of what you did all along that day.
But how does that pertain in your eyes to our everyday lives

(18:16):
as Christian? Sometimes we don't know the
whole staircase. We just are supposed to take the
next step, right? Paul to run the race that's set
before us, right? But we don't know that.
We don't know the course, right?If you're a cross country
runner, you've trained on that course.
You know the undulations of thatcourse and you know when to hit
it and when to hit the brakes, right?
So we're running the race. I use several illustrations in
the book for my personal life about riding whitewater Rapids

(18:37):
down the Arkansas River, the madness that can ensue, but the
joy that always ensues. But we don't, you don't know
every turn, right? You don't know every rock that's
maybe hidden one day. And you know, a week later the
the water's lower and all the sudden you're hitting it.
And that's, that's the Christianwalk.
So we can't, we got, we have to hold on to God's plan, but with

(18:59):
an open hand, right? Not a tight fist, but an open
hand because he's going to do with it.
And all he wants is obedience. And that obedience is the daily
walk that is that obedience is doing the next thing.
I pictured the football down. I talked a lot to, to men's
groups, right? So I picture that football
drill. We got the dummies, right?
You knock down one and then you,what you go to the next one, you
knock it down, you knock it down.
That's how at times we need to, we need to plan, we need to have

(19:21):
a, we need to have a vision, allof that.
I think men are suited. Men are suited for that.
You're wired that way, but sometimes, man, he's just
calling us to be faithful. The next thing and what I did on
repeat on September 11th and that's the parallel the
illustration that I make it thatyou're referring to is rendering
first aid, entering into the North tower, calling people to
the light, fighting fires, all these things that we may get

(19:43):
into at the end of the day, it'sa remarkable story that has to
be told and you're like, wow, but really it's just all it is,
is one thing stacked on top of the next do the next thing.
OK, address the problem. What's the next thing address
the problem and address the nextthing.
What's the problem. Men like to address problems
too. So I think at times we need to
apply that to our to our Christian walk.

(20:03):
We don't need to know what's around every turn.
We don't need to know, we don't need to form a committee and
make a five year plan all the time, right?
Because we get frozen in paralysis, we get frozen in
indecision, we get frozen and and what?
What has done with me in my lifeis after five years, I write
this in the book, right after five years of prayer and
frustration, after 911 of what'smy mission, what's my plan,

(20:24):
what's my purpose? He just said.
It's like he hit me on the back of the head and goes, just let
me use you in the next thing. Just let me use you.
Just do the next thing I have infront of you and then do the
next thing and keep following that and keep pursuing that and
that long March of obedience in the right direction.
Now he's suddenly I'm living outHis will and his purpose for my

(20:47):
life by doing the next thing. That's it, that's it.
That's where the magic lies, I think.
And that's something I've had tolearn the hard way a few times.
And you know, I think we need constant reminders, but that's
exactly what I shared with you before this.
You know how I had plans for my life.
I was going to be a pharmacist and I was going to work in a
drug store and I was going to retire and then I was going to
go lay on a beach somewhere and,you know, sit pina coladas and

(21:10):
have a great retirement. And then God called me to
minister right after I graduatedpharmacy school.
And I'm like, well, no, that can't be right.
I'm a pharmacist. Remember God and he's like,
well, just trust me. And in long, long, Long story
short, over the next little bit,I learned to just kind of take
that next step and he would provide and then take that next
step and he would provide. And if you know, the truth is,

(21:30):
if God had told me back then, you know, 10-15 years ago, hey,
eventually what am I going to dowith that pastor pharmacist?
Well, somewhere in the plans is going to be a podcast.
I'd have laughed in your face. And I said, there's no way.
I'm an introvert, my nature. I don't, I don't love putting
myself out there. And I would have probably found
every way I could to avoid that.But by taking the steps one step

(21:53):
at a time. And it hasn't been linear.
Here we are. And and people say, you know,
Chad, where are you going to be in five years?
I have no idea. But what I aim to do is take
that next step going to keep doing what God told me to do
last until he tells me to do something that helps.
And I, I would add on to that and, and what in doing that,
Chad, what have you, what have you experienced that you've had

(22:14):
successes and failures along theway?
No doubt. But I know I can guarantee you
when you're doing, doing the next thing and being obedient
and you're taking that step by step, you are experiencing joy,
yes. Contentment, fulfillment, right?
Sense of mission, sense of meaning.
I mean, this is not a begrudgingsubmission to no.
In doing these things, we also reap these benefits while we're

(22:35):
bringing glory to God. Well, and, and we realize the
purpose for which we've been made, and it's not to set out on
our own path that will never fulfill us.
Our ultimate fulfillment comes from living out our purpose that
God gave us. And that's where we find joy.
And that's one of the greatest points I like to make to men is
you, Chad, you don't determine your purpose.

(22:55):
I don't, I don't look from within and determine what my
purpose is. The the creator applies purpose
to what he has created and they have the created being right And
and he he has, he creates and hedesigns as a masterpiece.
Ephesians 210. He designs us as an implement,
as a tool to be used for his glory.
And the creator of the tool applies the purpose for the

(23:16):
tool, right? And yeah, once we get that, once
we get our heads wrapped around that, we're headed at least
headed in the right direction. That's exactly right.
And so the next thing is is so important.
It's it's important in our dailywalk.
It's important in our faith walk.
It's important in our journey oflife.
And you spelled that out. That was such a such an awesome
parallel. And as you begin to do the next

(23:37):
thing you found yourself in situations I'm sure you never
thought you would be in with your pants catching on fire.
I thought that was just something that my mom told me,
that if I've told lies my my pants would catch on fire.
You found yourself literally 2 times with your pants on fire
with the soles of your shoes melted.
Now talk to us a little bit about that as you're roaming the
streets of Ground Zero. The heat is so much that things

(24:01):
are just melting around you. Can you, can you walk us through
that? Sure, that was after the
collapse of both towers, so bothtowers had come down.
I literally had a mad dash for life twice.
It definitely could have been taken during each of those
collapses, but I wasn't. And when I returned, me and
three other agents, we returned.We we had refuge in a little, in

(24:22):
a little lobby of a bank. And we had a choice.
And we'll talk about this later.I'm sure courage is a choice,
right? Yeah.
As we, as we hit Church St. we can turn right towards the
sunlight N go north, walk out ofthis thing.
Or we could turn left and go back.
We don't, we never discussed it.We didn't form a committee.
We didn't say it. We just went left because that's
what we were called to do. And we were there for a reason,

(24:44):
for a purpose. And when we get back to that
intersection, so as you read my story and you know, my
battlefield that day was the intersection of Church and
Bessie Street, right on the on the on the northeast corner of
the World Trade Center complex. As we get there, as I write in
the book, the only thing alive was fire.
And think about that. It is my vision of what helmets

(25:05):
look like. The intersection was littered
with ambulances and fire trucks and police cars all on fire. 200
floors of office space had collapsed.
And every office in America has paper, right?
Even more so then it seemed likeevery inch of the intersection
was covered in paper and all of it was on fire.
So yes, during that time, you had to be watched every

(25:26):
footfall. You had to be careful.
We'd say, hey, hey, you're on fire, You're on fire.
And we kick it loose and kick itwith it.
It was, it was, it was insane. And yeah, that's where we where
we decided to do the next thing there, right?
We decided our little world and we'll make a Christian
application here. Our little world's on fire, that
little intersection and we decided to do something about
it. The next thing, right?

(25:47):
The next thing was this fire truck in the intersection that
was not damaged. I have no idea how well the Lord
and one of the guys I'm with, Rob, says we need to hook up a
hose, that fire truck start putting out these fires.
And I was thinking to myself, that is dumb, that is stupid.
We don't know what we're doing. Before my negative attitude
could take over, John, the otherguy I'm with says, yeah, you
know what, I used to do that in high school.

(26:07):
I think I can figure it out. And we pull the hose out and
turn off. These two guys are throwing
levers and turning knobs and next thing you know, I've got
water. You know, my pants are on fire
and I've got water coming out ofthis hose.
And we just became this foreman amateur hour firefighting team.
And we just said with one objective, we're going to
dominate the intersection, OK? And we started putting out fires

(26:29):
and we were bad at it at first. We got better.
Boom. We just went from one vehicle to
another, essentially turning, putting out.
And we're making the area safe. That was the objective.
Make this one little area safe so that when the professionals,
all the other firefighters come in from all over parts of the
city, they can come in and get to work and do what they do.
But in that moment, we were the only thing there because, Chad,

(26:50):
343 firefighters were gone. They were erased.
When you talked about your walk there, on your walk there is
just bodies, bodies looking for survivors, finding bodies.
Yeah, yeah. And, and, and in doing that, and
I talked when I talked to men especially, I'm like, look,
choose to enter in. There's fire going on there.
There's there's fire all around us.

(27:10):
Issues in the culture, problems in society.
What is it? And here's the thing, we weren't
bringing safety and security to the entire 8 block region.
We just God gave us this one little area of responsibility
and he told us to dominate it right with water.
And I think we can apply that over our Christian walk as well.
1000% we. Don't have to.
We don't have to put out every fire, but we are designed and

(27:33):
created as an implement, as a tool to address at least one
issue, right? I say in the book all the time
on repeat, this world is full ofproblems and you and I were
designed and created to dress atleast one.
Pick one. Yeah.
Yeah. And I think about it too this
way. Sometimes it feels overwhelming
because we can't change the world.

(27:53):
We can't change the whole world.There's no way we can't put out
the fire everywhere, but we havea sphere of influence, you call
it. We have a sphere of influence
within which we are placed, and I'll, I'll say divinely placed.
You are where you are on purposefor a purpose.
You can reach people that only you can reach.

(28:15):
I can't reach the same people asyou.
You can't reach the same people as me.
We're placed in different placesby God to bring about His
purposes here on earth and to point people to him.
And I love that because sometimes it can become so
overwhelming with all the problems that our world is
facing. And hey, we're, we're a couple
days after a lot of unrest that's that's come about because

(28:37):
of the Charlie Kirk assassination and all the things
that have come from that. It feels like the world's on
fire right now, if I'm honest. Right.
And it's overwhelming. I can't fix all that.
No, you're not called to fix allthat.
You're called to bring hope to your sphere of influence, bring
the gospel to your sphere of influence, bring the water, so

(28:58):
to speak, the living water, to your sphere of influence, and
put out the fires of the enemy. And if we can embrace that, we
can change the world one sphere of influence at a time, right?
Absolutely. There is no silver bullet,
right? If you look at the, the, the
enormity of the darkness, this present darkness that we're
living in right now. And there's nothing one thing
I'm going to do or you're going to do that's going to make all

(29:19):
that go away. And we know that ultimately it's
not going away until Jesus, Jesus returns as it, as it's so
beautifully written in Revelation.
So but yeah, we can do, we can do what's in our sphere of
influence. And as as I write in the book,
towards the towards the end thatstarts in our homes.
Yeah, it does. Starts by by cultivating and
building into and investing the relationships, the young people

(29:39):
that God gives us into our marriages and so forth.
Also protecting that home that that God, all that God has put
in under our care and under our responsibility.
It starts there, but it doesn't end there because when most men
for talking to men here, most men, when they think mission and
meaning, they immediately go to profession.
And that's not what I'm saying. Your profession can be part of

(30:01):
the equation for sure. It's part of your sphere of
influence. For many people, your profession
is your passion and it is addressing an issue or something
that you feel passionate. Great, that's awesome.
For other people, your profession funds your passion
that allows you to enter in and and address issues and so forth.
It can be an and can be. It doesn't have to be an either

(30:21):
or. It's an and both, right?
So absolutely. But yeah, what what is your
sphere of influence? What is the area of
responsibility? That's a military term, right?
AOR what is your area of responsibility that the Lord has
given you? Now work.
Spend the rest of your days justexpending yourself, going to bed
tired at night, expending yourself to building into

(30:43):
protecting, investing and and putting out the fires that are
in front of. You and you mentioned darkness
and I want to stay there a minute because there's a place
in the book where there is literal darkness.
And after the towers fell and you experienced this twice, the
first one and then you, you, you're able to work your way
through that. And then the second time as
well, retreating, literally running for your life through

(31:06):
the darkness. I mean, you, you can't, you
can't make that up. That's just, that's what it is.
We're literally living today in spiritual darkness, in a world
of evil and world depression andsadness and loneliness and
anxiety and hate. And in the book, you found
yourself in that darkness, and there were people all around you

(31:27):
struggling through that darkness.
And you had a glimpse of light. And you began to say, huh, I can
help these people. And you started yelling, come
this way, follow my voice. There's light this.
And that touched my soul, brother, because man, what
responsibility we have in our World of Darkness today to live

(31:50):
out what it looks like to be thelight and to point to the
ultimate light, who is Jesus. Can you tell us a little bit
about that? Unpack that force of that moment
where you're walking through your leading others and that aha
of man that that can touch a lotof people.
After my initial mad dash for life when the first tower

(32:10):
collapsed, I should I shouldn't have made it.
And this large chunks of debris falling all around me.
And that bright, beautiful day just becomes a dark night of
horrors, just pitch black. And my mouth, face, lungs
instantly filled with pulverizedconcrete and other particles.
But I'm still sprinting because stuff is still falling all
around me. I'm still in the kill box, as we
say in the service. A few seconds later, you know,

(32:31):
there's nothing falling around me.
So now I can walk, I can stagger.
And I said out loud, Jesus, helpme.
And moments later, moments later, I see light like you
mentioned. And I just I'm like, wow, what
is that? And I go, I stagger across the
street. I can barely see anything.
And I realize I'm looking N up anarrow alley at the other at the

(32:51):
other end of that alley is the light to sunlight.
And I'm like, sweet, let's get out of here.
I'm getting out. And then but the Lord stopped me
in my tracks. I didn't realize at the time,
but this is what was happening. He stopped me because although
that blanket of debris is covered, all noise blanketed all
noise, it didn't blanket the screams and the cries, they were
literally out of the darkness coming cries of I can't see.

(33:13):
I'm hurt. Somebody help me, please help
me. I can't get out of here.
And yeah, so I stood in the mouth of that alley, just
started to yell on repeat. Follow the sound of my voice.
There's light this way, come this way.
Come to me, come to me. There's light this way.
And as they made their way to me, I would shoot them up the
alley towards the towards the light.
And so because I'm not very smart, I never, I never realized

(33:35):
the spiritual metaphor illustration that's there until
the 10 year anniversary of Chad.Like, like you got it the first
time you're reading it, right? Took me 10 years because and and
it just hit me like a ton of bricks.
It's like that is that is the spiritual calling.
That is the calling. That is the Great Commission.
We are all called to be the man,to be the the woman standing in
the alley pointing people to thelight of life.

(33:58):
Yeah. Yeah.
Those who follow me will not walk in darkness, but will have
the light of life. That's the words Jesus and blew
me away. And so, yeah, chapter 6, Chapter
7, I introduce people to the light if they don't know him
yet, can I challenge believers? And we're called to be at least
two things, among other things, witnesses and ambassadors.

(34:18):
And a witness testifies. That's what they do.
They testify to what they've seen or what they know.
Yeah, that's your story. We should be tough, we should be
testifying what we've seen Jesusdo in our life and what we know
about Jesus. And then an ambassador, an
ambassador lives in a foreign place, but represents and speaks
for a higher authority. And that's us.
This is not our home. We live in a foreign place, but

(34:38):
we represent the the almighty and powerful and loving God.
And we got to be doing one of those two things, if not both.
That's right. And that's our challenge.
And I intentionally put that on the front end of the book
because I wanted non believers to contend with the message, a
clear presentation of the gospeland have to wrestle with that
for the rest of the book. And for believers in Chapter 7,

(34:59):
I wanted them to contend and wrestle with, hey, all of this
is pointing towards mission, towards meaning.
And part of that mission for me is to be a representation on the
line. That's right.
And a lot of times we don't fulfill that purpose.
It's unfortunate and I don't know many people that are
intentional about that, but it'sjust sometimes we get lost in
the day-to-day. You call that tunnel vision.

(35:21):
And as kind of a last little parallel, I'd like to talk about
that a little bit. Tell me about the tunnel vision
you had that in some ways helpedyou and not have more traumatic
experiences than you did. You mentioned that, you know,
there's the jumpers that you didnot witness, which I think is a
good thing. You didn't, you didn't see the
plane flying into the building, which I, you know, imagine that

(35:41):
was maybe 1 less thing to have to process.
But tunnel vision can keep us from the bigger picture
sometimes, right? Can you tell us about the tunnel
vision you experienced and then how that can apply to our lives?
Yeah, sure. I was on that second impact.
I mean, if you remember, the second plane came in
significantly lower than the first plane and hit lower.

(36:04):
That's why that that second tower is the first one that fell
that day. And so it was crazy though, just
coming in screaming. I think it hit about the 70th
floor. So that's and I'm, I was really,
I was right up next to the rightout in front of the building on
the street of that S tower. And I was so fixated on this

(36:24):
woman's arm. I was irrigating her arm.
She was badly burned. And the same like PD paramedic
is yelling at me because I'm notdoing it right or something
classic and I'm classic. New Yorker, right?
Yeah, stereotypical, you know, he was being helpful, let's say.
And yeah, I'm just so focused onit that I don't hear, I don't
hear a 767 screaming at low altitude.

(36:47):
It just blows my mind. And and what?
The only thing that shook me outof that tunnel vision was the
massive explosion on impact. Tunnel vision just on.
I'm trying to think of the otherillustration that you just used
the other time in which I had tunnel.
Gosh, I'm drawing a blank here. I'm sorry.
The jumper. The jumpers.
Yeah, yeah, Apparently there were jumpers all around me.

(37:08):
I was spared of that. I didn't witness any.
I didn't see any bodies falling and I certainly didn't see any
any impact. There was agents around me in my
direct vicinity that did see that and had to deal and wrestle
with that. I had tunnel vision on that.
But. There was also a tunnel vision
too. Sorry, let me interrupt you.
There's also a tunnel vision tooon when you were going up into
the tower and there were there were people who were injured.

(37:30):
You'd mentioned a lady that was in the corner and people just
like they were just stepping past her.
Probably not being insensitive or but more more so just
probably focused with tunnel vision, right?
Yes, thanks for reminding me about the 10th floor when I,
when I entered into the north tower, there's a woman who was
slumped over in the corner of the stairwell and she was just,
she was, she was very overweightand could not evacuate herself.

(37:50):
She was, she was spent and just a steady stream of people just
walking right past her. And it struck me.
I was like, what are we? What are we doing?
They had tunnel vision. They were going and they were
going right by her. And I just, I randomly, I tried
to carry her myself and I couldn't.
And I just randomly grabbed a dude by the collar literally and
said, Hey, I need your help. And he was like, of course, like

(38:12):
he was all in it. That's.
Not them out of. It tunnel vision.
And So what I've learned about tunnel vision, when we have
tunnel vision in life as it applies to life, it's almost
always because we are tunneled in, focused on self and we
missed, we miss so much of the good opportunities of life.
And by focusing on self, whetherthat is a personal issue, like a

(38:33):
problem, a struggle, whether it is that I'm tunnel vision, I'm
locked in on getting that promotion that's going to get me
in that office. So then in two years, I'm going
to be at that corner office, right?
That's our tunnel vision. My tunnel vision is I got to
have the perfect kid when that kid screws up just a little bit.
So whatever we're laser locked on, we may not career is good
and the kids are good and whatever it may be, but we just,

(38:55):
we lose our aperture of what's going on around us.
And so you can have tunnel vision on and investing
everything you can into this oneperfect kid.
And but but by the way, your marriage is falling apart, your
house is on fire and you don't even know it, right?
But yeah, there's all kinds of applications to make for that.
I see that. I see that a lot, especially,
especially in the men's coachingthat I do.

(39:17):
I see that a lot. People are fixated on one area
of life. Men are fixated on one area of
life in a large, a large part ofthe time.
It's, it's on their career or success or money or something
along those lines. And everything around them is
crumbling. And they wonder why they're not
happy. And it's just like, you know, if
you could back up and if you getthe big picture, what's going
on, you've got all these other fires.
But here you are focused on thisone thing.

(39:39):
And you're exactly right. And, and for a lot of men and
for a lot of women too, for thatmatter, I think sometimes we
could become so focused on the day-to-day, the struggles, you
know, the, the, the waking up and the getting the kids ready,
or at least that's the season I'm in right now.
The getting the kids ready for school and taking them to school
and going to work and get off and you got to eat dinner and
the routine. We get up.

(40:00):
And I've mentioned to you, my coaching business is called Man
Alive because there's so many men who are living but not
really alive. I think that, I think that
describes a lot of people today.We're living.
We're living and breathing. We're not, we're not really
alive, not the way we were intended to because we're
getting up, we're doing the routine, we're going to bed,
we're on, we're on, rinse and repeat.
And we're not thriving because we have tunnel vision.

(40:23):
But if you ask God to open your eyes and, and, and to help you
see your purpose and it all comes full circle, doesn't it
help you see your, your purpose?You weren't just here to get up,
go to work, come home, go to bed, repeat, pay taxes, die.
You were here for a purpose. And until you discover what that
is, it's easy to have tunnel vision and it's easy to kind of

(40:46):
focus in on one part of life. But I love that.
And tunnel vision is something Ithink that plagues a lot of us.
But you, you have a great way ofworking through that in your
book. I don't want to give away all of
the book cuz I want you guys to get it.
It is powerful. I'd mentioned to him that I was
quite emotional when I finished this book and I don't get that
way off, but it's touching and and there's so much there to
unpack. But I want to kind of close in

(41:08):
on some things as we wrap up ourtime together.
Talking about it, and this is tough love a little bit talking
about safety and comfort. You mentioned that safety and
comfort is not a calling. Man, that's hard.
I've heard one time, and I can'tremember where I heard it, but I
heard one time, what if we'd prayed less for safety and

(41:29):
comfort and more for God's will to be done, to be done
regardless? How might that change our lives?
Safety and comfort, you say in your book, this safe is boring.
Safe is comfortable. Safe is lazy.
Safe does not strike fear in theheart of the enemy.
Safe is not our ultimate goal, is it?

(41:51):
But yet we pursue it above all else, it seems like.
What's your thoughts on that? And in that process, we have
conflated, conflated words and definitions, right?
I mean, the culture, the societyis constantly doing the Jedi
mind trick. They're changing the definitions
of words, right? Yes.
And, and safe has become one of them where it's now synonymous
with comfortable, where words are unsafe, ideas are unsafe.

(42:15):
And when you think that ideas are unsafe and that words
challenging words that that may challenge your own thoughts are
not safe, that they are in fact dangerous, then you, you bleed
into words and ideas are actually violence.
And then you bleed into you fight violence with violence.
And that's how you have the the disastrous, the consequences,

(42:35):
the disastrous incident that happened just a couple days ago.
And so it starts with just polluting the the definition of
words, right? And we're just not called to be
comfortable because here's the point I make in the book, when I
read the scriptures, I don't seeJesus as comfortable, right?
I never just did the gospel. I mean, look at you, look at all
the script. OK, let's just look at that.
A lot of the scriptures, all thescriptures, Darren, that's a

(42:55):
lot, OK, Just look at the four gospels, right?
He's never comfortable, right? He was I didn't have a place to
lay his head. He was haunted.
He was challenged in public. He was chased out of town,
threatened with beatings, persecuted under under murderous
conspiracies. Yes.
Does any of that sound safe? Why What?

(43:20):
As as we see safe. Certainly he wasn't comfortable,
right. So if if, if he wanted to be
safe, he just would have kept himself, he would have lived a
good life as a quiet Carpenter, being a good guy that everyone
liked. Well, Jesus wasn't obsessed with
being liked. He was obsessed with fulfilling

(43:40):
the will of the. Father and his purpose.
And his purpose? He was obsessed with introducing
the world to to a magnitude of love that it could not
comprehend right, because that was the will of the father.
So I don't want to be obsessed with being like, I don't want to
be obsessed with being comfortable.
I don't want to be obsessed withusing, I'm using the air quotes
safe, safe as an illusion. Safe as an illusion.

(44:02):
Yes. I want to be obsessed with
pursuing and following the will of God and the purposes he's put
in my life because as I'm makingthe I may not always be
successful. I may not always be happy.
That's another word that we havedeluded.
I may not, I may not, but you know what?
As I say in the book, there is no safer place to be than the
center of God's will. Amen.

(44:24):
Period. And I used the illustration of
Dietrich Monhoffer in the book. I think it's just a, it's a
perfect, like the perfect illustration of that playing
out. Absolutely.
You know safe. Safe looks different when you're
in the when you're in the will of the Father.
Safe doesn't mean no harm. Safe doesn't mean comfortable
life. Safe doesn't mean bed of roses.

(44:48):
Safe just means God's got you. And I'm, I'm reminded that, you
know, the worst that they can doin this world is to kill us.
And then we're ushered into the presence of the Father for
eternity if we're a believer. And you know, that that hit home
from me because if I'm honest with you, especially now that
I've had kids, safety and comfort is a desire that I think

(45:13):
most people have, including myself.
And that's convicting. And that's not the first time
that's been convicted. But that this message of, you
know, God doesn't call us to be safe.
God doesn't call us to be happy.God calls us to be holy.
And if we're holy and if we're Christ like, and if we're in the
middle of his will, we're going to have joy, which is way better
than happiness. Way better than happiness.

(45:33):
It's sustaining. That's right.
That's right. And it doesn't matter what's
going on around us. We can have that deep seat of
joy. But you've mentioned one thing.
It doesn't strike fear in the heart of the enemy.
And I want to kind of end with this.
We were created to fight. There's there's spiritual
warfare going on all around us. That's not something that I

(45:54):
think we talked about enough. But we were created to fight.
We were, we were created. The enemy that we face is a
defeated enemy, yes, but he's still enraged in a battle with
us today. And I believe that we were made
to have dirty suits, hence the name of your book.
And we were made to put up a fight.
While we're here on this earth. Talk to us about dirty suits.

(46:16):
What does that mean to you? And and kind of what's the full
circle moment there? Right so the title of the book
is Burying me in a Dirty Suit and what happened at the end of
my day on September 11th was we finally found out where all the
other agents were relocating andmyself and the three others I
was with as a group of four. We get get into a car and we
drive about 30 blocks N out of the haze and then back back into

(46:38):
the bright sunlight of the day. And we enter into this large
room and there's a large group of agents on my, on my right
that were they look just like wedid, man.
They had as, as I like to say, I'm fond of saying they had
fought the good fight, right? They had been in the battle.
They had answered the bell. And I mean, my, my pants were
like 3 inches shorter because they kept Catching Fire.
My shoes were melted. I ripped off my shirt and

(47:00):
someone just threw me a random T-shirt because it was and we
were all in suits and they're all destroyed.
And then I looked across the room and there's, there's no, no
doubt in my mind why there was aseparation down the middle.
And there was a group of other colleagues that were different.
Their suits were clean. They were clean suits, perfect
pair of shiny shoes, hold on yards.
And I don't say that disparagingly.

(47:21):
I don't know the circumstances, the choices that they had.
And these people were valiant warriors who went on to serve
our nationwide. I use it.
I say that only to make this illustration and apply it to our
daily living. I could not get the dichotomy
out of my mind. There were clean suits and there
were dirty suits. And so the next day I'm on my
couch. I'm in September 12th, I'm in

(47:43):
Hoboken, NJ. I'm sitting there with my wife.
We're crying, we're praying, I'mtrying to figure out what is
going on. And I made a promise to God in
that prayer. And I said, Lord, I want to
spend the rest of my days getting my suit dirty for your
glory. And as the prayer ended, it just
rolled off my tongue. I said, Lord, you didn't take me
yesterday. You could have at least twice.
I'm here for you. I'm sure I want my orders.

(48:04):
What are my orders? I'm ready to get my suit dirty
for you. But I said, Lord, at the end of
the prayer, I said, Lord, when Ipunch out of this world and into
the next and you call me home, bury me in a dirty suit.
And it just struck. And, you know, 24 years later,
that's that's the title of my book.
And not to go on and on, but what does that mean?
You know, in the in the book andas you can agree, in the last

(48:27):
four chapters, I kind of get up in your face a bit.
Yeah. But I think we all need it.
The men in my life, the spiritual men in my life that
have gotten up in my face on things.
I thank God for them. And what does that mean?
That means that we're witnesses and ambassadors, that we share
Christ consistently. What does that mean?
That means that we cultivate andinvest in our home and in our
family and our people in the dominion, the little sphere of

(48:49):
influence that we've been given,and we do everything we can to
protect that. Yes, spiritually and physically,
but really after, in addition toall that, like I said before,
this world is full of problems and you and I were created as
implements to be the hands and feet of Jesus.
I someone recently said I sometimes on occasion got into a
miracle, but it usually just makes people makes people to be

(49:10):
his hand, his feet and whatever that is.
Discern what that is. Talk to people around you, read
the scriptures, have the Holy Spirit speak to you.
What is the problem? What is this societal issue?
Men like to solve problems and get dirty, right?
Drug trafficking, child sex trafficking is an issue is near
and dear to me. Homelessness, drug addiction,
whatever it may be. I'll find some brothers, get

(49:30):
shoulder to shoulder with some like minded brothers and and get
into that arena. Each one of those is an arena
and spend the rest of your days getting your suit dirty in some
way. And you don't have to know how
it's all going to play out. I have no idea how my situation
is going to play out, but I am going to do the next thing.
And he's called me to certain areas and this is one of them.
And so that's what it's called to, to, to, to get to get your

(49:51):
suit dirty. And as I say in the book, this
this world, if we look around and just open our eyes and open
our aperture and get out of thattunnel vision, it's full of
arenas. And then most of the arenas,
they're just waiting for the gladiator to show up all.
Right. Yeah, and I won't ruin how you
ended your book, but I loved it and that's it.
Easier for you guys to go out and get it.

(50:13):
It's become a thing. Many people are, there's a
certain action and everyone is it's it's becoming a call sign
kind of. And I didn't plan that, but
we'll see what happens. I think about obedience and, and
that's, that's a big part of what you're talking about too,
being obedient to the Lord in every moment, embracing your
purpose, embracing your mission,not taking the easy way out and

(50:38):
getting your suit dirty for the cause of the Kingdom.
Absolutely love it, brother. Man, I, I, we could do this for
hours. Or at least I could.
Yeah, you'd probably. Run out of patience with me, but
I have so many questions. Maybe we'll do a Part 2 down the
road, but here's what I want to say to my listeners.
If you're not a believer, your world will never make sense.
Unless you learn to accept Christ as your Savior, you will

(51:03):
never be fulfilled. You will never find fulfillment
in anything that this world has to offer.
We were made for creation with. We were made for communion with
our Creator. Only He can fulfill the things
that your heart's searching for.And if you're a believer, I want
this to encourage you to get your suit dirty.
I want this to encourage you to take that next step.

(51:26):
Do that next thing. Get rid of the tunnel vision and
ask God to help you see the world as he sees it.
And I can promise you, if you pray that prayer with
earnestness and sincerity, he'llanswer it and you'll start to
see the the areas that he's called you to.
So brother Darren, man, this hasbeen a privilege.
You guys check out Bury Me in a Dirty Suit available wherever

(51:49):
you find your books. I'm going to put links in the
show notes as well. Darren, where can they find out
more about you and your story and the work you're doing?
Yeah, for sure. Thank you.
Like you said, you can get that book Bury Me in a Dirty Suit
anywhere you buy books online, Amazon, of course,
barnesandnoble.com and other places.
As far as me and my ministry moving forward establish this
organization, excuse me, called Fierce Faith.
And if you read the book, you understand the mindset behind

(52:12):
Fierce Faith. It's all about equipping and
encouraging and equipping men tolive out their God-given
purpose, right to be fierce, to strive greatly, fail greatly,
win greatly. But for the, for the Kingdom,
like you just said, that's, that's what we're doing a fierce
faith. And that website
isfierce-faith.com, fierce Dash faith.com.

(52:34):
And I'm doing, I'm booking keynote addresses and men's
conferences and churches, sermons and congregations and
amend retreats and things like that.
And then on the corporate side of my house, darrenkinder.com.
I'm also, I also do keynote addresses for like corporate
settings, business settings. I take these resilience and grit
and team building and doing the next thing and getting your suit

(52:55):
dirty. What does that look like in the
workplace and to to to better your, your output, your
achievement and teams and so forth in the corporate setting.
So I do that as well. That's darrenkinder.com.
DARINI spell my name correctly. Just one R and with an I
darrenkinder.com for that. And then most of the other stuff
is is right there at Fierce Dashface.
And I'll put links to the show notes links in the show notes

(53:17):
for those as well. I'm convinced that you were put
on this earth to share that story that you just shared.
It's making a difference, brother.
I want to encourage you to to keep sharing that, and you keep
using your platform for the Kingdom.
You're doing great work. The world's a better place
because you're in it. Thank you, my friend.
You're a blessing. You're the best.

(53:38):
Thanks, Chad. Let's do this again.
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