May 15, 2024 • 43 mins
In the latest episode of the Revenue Room™ Podcast, we had the pleasure of hosting Thomas Bohn, President and COO of Advanced Home Improvement Media. Tom shared the company's fascinating growth trajectory, the inspiring company culture amidst accelerated change, and strategic plans to leverage digital solutions and data to diversify revenue streams and create unique customer value.
Key Takeaways:
- Data and Analytics: The crucial role they play in driving business growth.
- Innovative Digital Solutions: Transforming the home improvement industry with cutting-edge technology.
- AI and Customer Experience: How Advanced Home Improvement Media utilizes AI and data to enhance customer interactions.
- Local Sales Team: The importance of having a strong, localized sales force and personalized customer interactions.
- Future Trends: Exploring pet-friendly home solutions and upcoming trends in the home improvement sector.
Tom highlighted their innovative approach to connecting homeowners with top-notch contractors, home improvement service providers, and potential partnerships with lending institutions to streamline the financing process. He shared an exciting vision where users can upload photos of their kitchens, receive tagged product suggestions, and finance their projects seamlessly with the Home Mag Dream Card.
"Our mission is simple – to clear the path and facilitate a smooth, enjoyable customer experience. We don't sell leads; we sell facilitation and connection, sparking creativity and empowering homeowners on their renovation journeys."
Become part of the conversation. Join The Revenue Room™ today.
About Heather Holst-Knudsen
Heather Holst-Knudsen is the founder and CEO of H2K Labs and Revenue Room™ Connect. She is a seasoned executive with extensive experience in digital transformation, data, and revenue growth. She is a recognized leader and operator in media, marketplaces, events, and adjacent technologies. Heather has a proven track record of leading organizations to achieve customer-centric innovation, revenue growth, and enterprise value creation. As a thought leader, Heather shares her insights on multisided business models under The Revenue Room™. Connect with Heather on LinkedIn.
ABOUT H2K LABS
H2K Labs is a tech-enabled value creation specialist that helps media, data/information, event, and marketplace businesses accelerate revenue, drive profitability, and fuel enterprise value using data, digital, and AI. We host The Revenue Room™ Podcast, curate Revenue Room™ Connect, a professional network for CEO and their revenue-critical C-Suite teams, and produce events including RevvedUP 2025. For more information, please visit https://www.h2klabs.com
To join Revenue Room™ Connect, please visit https://www.revenueroomconnect.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Revenue Room,presented by H2K Labs.
(00:05):
Here's your host, HeatherHolst-Knudsen.
Hi everyone.
Before we jump into today'sepisode, we've got some exciting
news to share.
The Revenue Room and H2K Labsare launching a groundbreaking
peer to peer network focusing onrevenue growth.
And as listeners, we want you tobe the first to know.
(00:25):
So we're offering you theopportunity to sign up to be one
of the first we notify when weofficially launch.
But our program will includepeer to peer collaboration and
advisory events in idylliclocations such as Sarasota, our
hometown, and research.
And things like playbooks,bootcamps, and other types of
support and content to help youaccelerate your journey to
(00:48):
profitable revenue growth.
We'll be sharing the link tosign up in our show notes.
I'm delighted to invite ThomasBohn here to our show.
Thomas is the president andchief operating officer of the
rebranded under a new corporatestructure.
It's good to be here, Heather.
Thank you so much for having me.
We are now.
(01:08):
The HomeMag is actually acorporation underneath Advanced
Home Improvement Media, becausewe're so much now more than just
the HomeMag.
We're a lot of different brandsand growing very quickly, so We
had to make sure that our brandsand our lines of product aligned
accordingly.
I actually can't wait to getinto that because I think some
of the brands that you'velaunched that are adjacent to
(01:28):
the HomeMag, it's actually quitefascinating how you're looking
at the business.
But I met Tom five, six yearsago when you were the CEO of
NABC.
It might have been a littlelonger.
Okay.
North American VeterinaryCommunity.
I think we were, you were withanother digital company.
Feather.
I remember.
Yes.
And we had met and we weretalking about the.
The possibilities of workingtogether.
(01:49):
I don't know if we did, at thetime.
I don't think we did.
Yeah, I can't remember.
Yeah, but and then we circledback once everything settled and
Brought me back to Florida andto, to this new industry.
And now we're down the streetfrom each other.
I look, I think what could bebetter than being in Sarasota in
the middle of the afternoon?
What a gorgeous area.
That's right.
We're excited to have you here.
The HomeMag is actually a familyowned business that has been on
(02:12):
operation for 21 years now.
The founders Sean and DebbieCampbell they had set a vision.
They lived in South Africa andthey had set a vision that said,
essentially we want to.
Be in the States and we want tocreate a company that has a
lasting impact and isprofitable.
And they basically visioned thiswhole thing out.
In very general terms.
(02:33):
And there was a similar type ofbusiness that was in South
Africa, Cape town at the time.
And they basically took thatconcept, adapted it to the U S
market, started with onepublication in Fort Myers, Cape
Coral area or Southwest Florida.
And it wasn't even called TheHomeMag at the time.
It was like, I forgot the namenow, but it's a terrible name.
(02:55):
I saved it the brand back now,but.
They stayed with it, and theyare what I like to call a 22
year, 21 year overnightsensation.
Because this is the, theygrinded and saved.
So focus until I became thecompany it is today and 68
markets, half of it franchise,half of it, corporate owned now
so many additional products inthe mix and stuff that we're,
(03:17):
we'll talk about, but it's areally cool entrepreneurial
story.
And Oh, and by the way, to makeit even better, they sailed
here.
So it wasn't like they got on aplane.
Wait, hold on.
No, literally, so they bought aboat together as a couple and
they said before we do anythingwe're going to go around the
world and do charters becausethey love their big sailors and
everything.
So they're doing charters andpart of their vision plan was
(03:40):
one of our customers will helpus decide where we should go in
the states.
And one of their customerssuggested Cape Coral, which at
the time was this boom town.
You remember the pre 2008 andthat thing, you couldn't go
wrong buying a piece of dirt inCape Coral.
So one thing led to another,they literally landed here like
the pilgrims and in Cape Coraland started this business.
(04:03):
And obviously through the yearsgrew, it started with just them.
Then they franchised it and thefranchise started to grow.
And today is a, we have On thecorporate national level, we
have just about a hundredemployees and then across the
entire organization andfranchise.
We're about 250 It's a prettycool story that they have.
Oh, it's so interesting, but Ilove that franchise angle.
(04:24):
Yeah But just to back up a bit Ithink your background is so
fascinating just from your ownindividual level in that you've
been in Association you've ledassociations you've led media
companies trade shows Now you'releading a B2C media company,
you've been deep into P& E andmergers and acquisitions.
How does this all form Tom now?
(04:46):
So it's interesting, my firstreal job, okay, I was coming out
of business school.
I just started in the middle ofbusiness school and my wife and
I wanted to move to the TampaBay area.
And there was a chamber ofcommerce there called the
Oldsmar Chamber of Commerce.
And it was strugglingfinancially and all these types
of issues.
And I vividly remember theywanted to hire a CEO.
(05:06):
No one wanted the damn job,right?
Because it was 18, 000 a year.
And if that sounds like a littlenow, it was a little then too,
right?
There wasn't a lot.
So there was me who had doneinternships and stuff in
chambers and was ambitious andall those things.
And I said, I'll do it.
The whole fake it till you makeit type of thing, but you knew
just enough.
In the course of two years, wehad literally grown it double
the size of it.
(05:27):
Convinced the city and thecounty to donate a building to
us as a welcome center.
Put in all these greatopportunities for the local
economy in terms of economicdevelopment.
So I was able to cut my teeth ona number of different things,
including, publishing and therest around business related
issues.
And that was probably, I don'tthink I've had roles that were
(05:49):
Chief level, but I've never had,but not like I was never like a
manager or anything like that.
So my first job was as a CEO andthat kind of continued that
thing.
And I became known for thiswhole idea of disruption.
And it's something that's reallyembedded in me and being able to
go into a company that hasreally good bones and then
(06:10):
saying, where can it go fromhere?
And I think that's when Sean andI met and a recruiter came to me
and was talking to me and weliterally hit it off within the
first couple of minutes talkingabout what could this be?
And that's what, and that'swhere we're at.
So literally the plan that Ipitched to Sean when we had met
on that first meeting is theplan we're enacting today as we
(06:33):
are growing the Hallmark.
I'm jumping around from what Ihope my questions would be, but
that leads me to in one of yourbios I read, you have this
really great statement, Tomenvisions what he wants to
accomplish and then finds themeans to attain it.
So it's almost like you went inand met.
Your CEO and said, yeah, here'sthe plan, and I'm going to give
(06:54):
you the roadmap to, and you'reexecuting it right now.
Yeah.
So in fairness, Sean had theseincredible ideas.
He's a visionary, but he will bethe first person to tell you
it's taken the vision to theactual implementation that was
always been challenging gettingthe right people around to, to
do that.
So for me, I am able to sit atthat vision level.
(07:15):
But then to say, how are wegoing to get there?
And that to me has always beenabout surrounding myself.
And I know this is cliche, butsurrounding myself with people
who are a lot more talented thanmyself and giving them the tools
and giving them the freedom andgiving them the ability.
My job at the end of the day isto set help with Sean, set the
vision of the organization.
(07:35):
And then to move obstacles outof the way and make sure our
culture is always top notch.
And that's what I continually goback to focus and focus on.
And we just did a, I'm reallyproud of this.
We just did a.
Survey with Inc.
500 and it was the best placesto work.
We scored in the very, very topof companies for our employee
(07:56):
motivation and satisfaction andthe rest.
And that's something that for acompany here, I'm coming on two
years where we've changedliterally everything from top to
bottom.
And to get that type of feedbackand to be so incredibly
profitable at the same time.
That's extraordinary for a fewdifferent reasons because the
change that is happening at yourcompany is enormous because
(08:20):
You're going from primarilyprint revenues.
Yeah to adding in Not onlyadding in digital solutions, but
you're actually leapfroggingother businesses who might've
already started on the journeyand you're like moving to AI and
all of these incredible datamonetization opportunities,
which has an impact directly onthe type of people you're
(08:41):
hiring, the way the company hasto operate in terms of how
you're using data internally tomanage the business.
It's a very different thancreating and publishing a print
publication.
So when I first came to it, Ididn't look at it as a.
Print publication.
And I literally forbid the teamfrom ever saying that.
We are a multimedia, techenabled organization that
(09:04):
supports the home improvementindustry.
That's what we do.
And that could manifest in manydifferent forms.
Print happens to be one of thecore forms, right?
But it's just a piece of it.
At the end of the day, our jobis to clear the path.
And that's a phrase that Seanand team put together many years
ago.
I love it.
We use it every day.
Clear the path between thecustomer, the homeowner and the
(09:27):
advertiser to bring incrediblevisions of your home to life in
an easy way.
And that's what it's always beenabout, inspiring with incredible
photography and connecting tothe best home improvement people
instead of the cheapest or the,it's always about that fine line
between quality and competitive.
(09:49):
And I think that's really whatit was about.
So when I looked at the company,I didn't see a print company.
I saw a company in 68 marketswith a local sales team.
That's what triggered in myhead.
And that was the first thing Isaid, he's, what do you think
about the print?
And I said, it is what it isthat it's not like I said, what
I love though, is you haveliterally have on the ground
salespeople in 68 markets, andthat's something that most
(10:12):
organizations.
And then replicating.
And then, so for me, it was amatter of taking this incredibly
strong brand and then bolting onproducts that make sense based
on the feedback we were hearingfrom our advertisers.
And it's been really exciting.
That actually, that feed on thestreet construct that you have
with the salespeople andregionally located, that was
(10:32):
very much with my former familybusiness, Thomas Publishing,
they had the whole independentcontractor system.
Which actually got grandfatheredin by President Clinton, that
they could exclusively work forThomas.
But yeah, it was, they had themall around the United States.
I think at one point there werelike 600.
It went down from there after awhile, but it was one of the
core that I would say is alittle bit of a secret weapon.
(10:54):
Okay.
So let's talk about the plannow, right?
This plan, you've an integratedmedia portfolio that serves your
two sides of your customerconstituency, right?
You've got audience.
And you have your advertisers,and you've launched a series of
very interesting digitalsolutions.
(11:14):
Yeah.
Let's talk about that.
So we started out very simple.
It was, okay, let's get intoemail and we partnered with some
great companies to make surethat we were delivering the best
in class.
We have a penetration rate ofour mail list for our emails of
about 65 to 70 percent hits andthe open rates are phenomenal,
right?
But we wouldn't settle becauseso many people go out there and
(11:36):
grab email lists and they'reterrible and it's junk and it's
spam and it doesn't work.
We wanted to have something thatworked.
And it's a premium, right?
So we're able to charge for thatprice.
So it was a really good kind ofdip in our toe in the water.
And I can tell you that as interms of a percentage of our
local market sales, it's alreadygrown at 15, 20%.
And that's just where a lot ofgroups are seeing a decline in
(11:59):
the beginning of this year inadvertising because of the fear
of the elections and all thoseother types of things, right?
We have not seen that because ofwhat we've been able to do.
With this, but we were much moreambitious.
And we, again, talking aboutthat local sales team and what
we wanted to do was it wasn't afar walk from you have this
incredible print publication.
You have emails, you've got alocal sales team.
(12:20):
There should be a marketplacethat's connecting these
incredible advertisers.
With homeowners, because a lotof people are focused on this,
right?
Or they're focused on theirlaptop or whatever.
But we didn't want to justcreate a directory.
That's everyone has a directoryand there, some of them are
good.
Some of them are not good.
We wanted to create anexperience and that experience
was really around AI andartificial intelligence and this
(12:42):
whole idea of creating acharacter called homie.
And homie is a, is an AI house,right?
Homie is amazing and kids lovehomie.
There's actual homie.
Outfits now and there's homiegear and the rest, but you're
able to go on and actually havea conversation with homie about
your house.
And it started out, we reallywanted to make sure that it
(13:03):
worked well and we walked,crawled, walked before we ran.
And it was just, talk to usabout what you want and we'll
start to suggest the contractorsthat will be best for you,
whether it's windows or doors orpainting or whatever, the case
may be now.
And when this is about to rollout, By the way, this will be
across the nation and an awesomeadvertising campaign that we
(13:24):
just shot in Orlando, but nowyou'll be able to go on and
upload photos of your kitchen,photos of your living room,
photos of your home and tellhomie, Hey, I need help with
this.
Give me a look that looks likea.
California, chic beach, whateverthe thing is that people are
doing farmhouse chic, there's amillion different things and
it'll start to generate that foryou and actually give you photos
(13:47):
and then on top of that, it'llstart to say, here's the folks
who can help you who areconnected with the home and
connect them.
Now, what's important to thisthough, is that we don't want to
be in the business of sellingpeople's information.
Because that's right there.
We don't want to be in thebusiness of selling leads.
Okay.
We want to be in the business ofconnectivity.
So we connect them and let thoseconversations happen
(14:07):
organically.
We, we never sit, so we're notgoing to call, I got I think it
was HomeAdvisor or one of those.
I tested just to see.
Yeah.
And I think I got 20 calls, likehunting down my house.
I don't, we don't want thatbecause that's not a good
experience for our advertisers.
And it's certainly not a goodexperience for homeowners.
Our goal was again, clear thepath, make it easy.
(14:28):
If they wanted to connect, theycan get all the information,
whether they want to connectwith the contractor.
It's easy to do.
And it's out there.
Yeah, it's out there.
And that's interesting becauseone, I'm doing my kitchen, so
I'm all in this right now.
And for people who don't want tohire an interior designer or
don't, or can't afford it orwant to do it on their own, it's
(14:49):
a very it's a huge investment.
It's very I get nervous, what ifI pick the wrong thing?
I want to see things.
I'm very visual.
So this idea that you can notonly upload your own.
Or manifest it.
You could literally just put inqueues of what you want.
Will you ask them after they'redone with their kitchen to
upload the finished product?
Absolutely.
Here's the great part.
(15:09):
So in an iteration coming out,you can actually take those
photos and put them in Homie'sgarage.
So Homie has a garage and youcould store your stuff.
Everyone stores their stuff intheir garage.
Yeah.
Homie will have a garage and youstore it in there.
And again, it's free.
You We're not selling your data,we're not, and, but this is, I
think the brilliant part aboutall this, Heather, is that I
think when you and I first met,you really triggered and you
(15:31):
said, you really have to getmore data in terms of who you
are and what you are.
So we partnered with MRI, whoyou know, to do a data, to a
review of our product, really doan assessment.
What do people think?
We just got those results backlast week.
and a reader of the home mag.
First of all, our readership isabout 70%, which is through the
roof, but they're three and ahalf times more likely to engage
(15:54):
in a home improvement podproject within the next two to
three months.
Wow.
350 percent higher because ofthe focus on our data and all on
our list, which gets back towhat you've been preaching.
Because you're reallyaccelerating and helping a
person make better, smarterdecisions and also reducing the
risk and the fear of theinvestment, which is a lot of
(16:15):
the lag, the time lag from whenwe do it.
So I think that's phenomenal.
But I think there's somethingelse we talked about that two
things.
One is.
So when people are entering intheir prompts and homey, you're
actually getting a lot of dataabout specific types of buyers
and specific markets.
What's trending?
I was actually looking at yourdata yesterday, the sample data,
(16:37):
and it was like, Hi, everyonewants to redo their garage in
this area.
Yeah, it gets better.
Because what do we do with that?
I don't want to sell their dataanymore.
We're never going to be in thatbusiness, right?
That's not what we do.
But we're actually going to beworking now with you all and
with MRI to put together anational annual Home Improvement
Trends Survey.
To talk about what they'respending, what they're doing,
(16:58):
where it's going to be.
So that we're also a source ofdata in general to share.
It's just changing that again.
It was a print publicationworking great.
What else can you be?
How else can you envision it?
There's another angle there too.
If you're getting all of thisdata in around the buyer,
including me being able to mapto income and again, helping
(17:19):
them accelerate their journey ispartnering with lending
institutions that would want tobe.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So FinTech is something we'reexploring.
If you think about where themarketplace or homey sits, It's
only in the very beginning.
We're just in the beginning ofthis journey.
So now imagine it brings up thisincredible photo of what your
(17:40):
kitchen's going to look like.
And now it can actually start totag products onto it, right?
And then it can say, Hey, youreally like this?
Why not get the HomeMagDreamCard, which can help you
pay for it, right?
Which is now supported by abanking partner and when it
becomes a seamless process.
And again, we are just clearingthe path to make all that
happen.
We're not sitting here.
(18:01):
Badgering them.
That's not what we do.
It'll never be what we do.
We don't sell leads.
We sell facilitation.
We connect.
Curation, facilitation, andyou're sparking creativity,
again, in your audience to helpthem again on that journey.
Absolutely.
Tell me about your pet brand.
Again, thinking about ourproduct in a more holistic
fashion, the home includes somany powerful things.
(18:24):
And certainly in my world, Idon't think the home.
Is as complete without a pet,right?
We are about to launch the petmag.
Which will be a ride along withthe home bag, which really
starts to focus and get intowhat can you be doing in your
home with this very special partof your home.
I've got two amazing dogs andhad dogs most of my life and
(18:46):
they're critical and they're inthe home all the time.
Two things.
I have my own, I have a roughcolleague by the way.
Yeah.
His name is Frankie.
He's all white.
And I always say to my, my, myhusband, whose brother is
single, I'm like, he just needsto come over and want walk
Frankie.
Like he is a baby magnet.
Yes.
But two things.
One is I read somewhere that wecould be in the deepest
depression, but you know what?
(19:07):
Spend on animals is gonna alwaysgo up home and animal.
So could we not be focused onthe two best things?
And the great thing about thatis that there, the media play in
animal health.
Is very disjointed.
There's not a major player.
So we think there's a lot ofopportunity for us to really
focus on that.
I have a lot of background as wetalked about from NAVC know that
world really appreciateveterinarians immensely.
(19:30):
I think they're the mostbrilliant people I've ever met.
Truly.
They're just so caring and smartand love working with them.
Every minute of it.
And I think there's so much wecan do because there's a lot of
great stories to tell andsuccess.
But think about it.
Architects are designingkitchen.
With the pet in mind, I just wasthe bowls being into the island
and the water being fed.
(19:51):
So it's clear and draining outand so it's this constant
thought process and shadestructures outside for the pets
to be under and to sit on.
So all this is happening, and Ithink you need to think about
the home very holistically as afocal point.
What's been amazing for us froma data perspective is as we look
back on the years.
When we've been in recession, westill do well.
When we're growth, we still dowell because people are going to
(20:14):
say, I'm not going to buy itstraight too high.
I'm going to sit where I'm at,but I'm going to just do this.
People are offering 0%.
Oh, I'll go do this.
Then I'll upgrade mycountertops.
I'll paint the house that.
Always becomes a part of thenarrative.
Americans love their homes andthey love their pets.
I think especially since COVIDwhere people were hunkered down
at home and then people startedto realize how important the
(20:34):
home is in terms of really trulybeing your sanctuary.
But there's an interesting crosssell both in terms on the
audience side.
I think there's an interestingcross sell part.
If you're like getting data fromhomey and let's say They're
asking questions.
I want to include like thatthing about for pets.
Like I see, I saw one for ourdog, what you just described.
(20:55):
You automatically now have thatdata to do.
Oh, by the way, do you know thatwe have this, these pet
solutions for you as you'rethinking about how to improve
your pet's life in your home.
And our world is much moretightened.
So you could go on Instagram andthose types of things and find a
lot of what we're talking about,but it's huge.
We are literally focused on thehome and envisioning the home.
But again, the magic is becausewe have sales teams locally.
(21:18):
You talk about the brand.
The few other people in ourspace, they're sitting in New
York or they're sitting inDallas and they're calling all
around the country to getadvertising.
And they're mailing to everyone.
It's just a very different lookand feel of what it is and what
we are.
And I think that goes back tothe Campbells, Sean and Debbie,
Who always wanted to besomething different and special
(21:40):
even if it meant Losing businessor not getting business.
We never would compete on that.
Let's be the cheapest, right?
Let's be the best.
This reminds me of Freight well,it's now called firecrown media,
but Craig Fuller.
He bought some assets fromBonniere One of my top people is
(22:00):
a Bonniere I always pronounce itincorrectly by the way but he
is, he has acquired a lot oftheir like Marine and they're
flying the B2C, but, and hereally he got, he, he lopped off
the circulation.
He wanted only the best ones andhe's launching all of these
solutions around this highlypassionate audience, like
financing for the pilots, likethese, mass customization.
(22:24):
You find your target, you findyour niche, and that's what you
obsess with.
And that's what we do.
We are obsessed with people whowant to spend money on their
home.
And we don't want to be allthings to all people.
We don't go to apartment, otherpeople's mail to apartment.
Because if you can model inthere a rental, but there's a
lot of differences between usand others that I think it
(22:45):
matters in the end.
Do you have any plans to do anytype of events?
I'm I have an event backgroundis I've done 20, 000 attendee
shows.
We have a conference internallyfor us that's much, much
smaller.
I think there's a play there.
I just think we need to figureout that path together.
We're so focused on the data.
And the AI and those types ofthings right now, you only can
(23:06):
do so many things well at acertain time.
But I think that's a play.
Home shows and the like is aplace that we would want to
certainly be.
Even like TV, there's a lot ofAbsolutely.
There is, but I think there's a,there's an entire market there
now that, if you think aboutOTT, over the top, you don't
have to be on a big networkanymore.
You just have to be creative andbe different.
(23:27):
We're doing some cool stuff.
Cool stuff now on Tik Tok withhomey and the like, and our
commercials that are about tocome out for marketplace are
just phenomenal.
The creative team that's beeninvolved in those will start to
roll out nationally as we expandto all these new markets.
So I have to shift a little bitbecause this is everything
sounds so wonderful and greatand I love it, but I can't
(23:47):
imagine that.
This has, especially on the teamside, and I, and again, I having
led sales teams know how hard itis to change mindset if they're
accustomed to a certain way.
Have you encountered anychallenges or barriers you had
to break down to really helppeople jump on board this
(24:08):
vision?
There's definitely been a changein the environment.
So there's a lot of faces thatare new and there's some faces
that are no longer there becausethey were unable to make that
transition.
That's just part of kind ofbusiness.
I think the difference you'd askabout the difference between
being an association or not forprofit is that when you're
profitable, right?
And you're growing, it allowsyou to be bolder.
(24:31):
It allows you to make, it allowsyou to make decisions.
In the best interest of theorganization instead of
decisions in fear because yougot to make payroll or you got
to do this or it's got a breakeven situation, right?
I think because they have runsuch an amazingly careful
organization and we're notsuperfluous with expenses and
there's no We keep it.
(24:52):
Our revenue per employee is justastronomical.
We keep it very tight.
There's none of this glitz andextra bodies.
And we were always waiting toneed a person or to add them.
And I think that the people whoweren't able to make that shift
are the ones who just couldn'tget on board with the rate of
change, the speed of change.
So it's not that they disagreednecessarily with the path.
(25:15):
They just couldn't move at therate that we have to move in.
And I look, I'm never going tomake it.
I'm never going to apologize forthat because we're focused right
now on this book called pivot,disrupt and transform.
And it's become our mantra andour focus.
And we're taking through theentire organization and yeah,
it's a fantastic book and Ithink you'll get a lot out of
it.
And it really talks about thefact that great companies,
(25:36):
successful companies go throughthose phases and you continually
shift through them.
But it talks about the otherpart of it, which is really,
where are you participating,either whether you're a
franchise or you're apublication or you're an
employee?
Are you present?
Which is, you just show up, youdo it, you do your job, right?
Are you competitive, which isthat next level, or are you
dominant?
(25:57):
So it's really that progressionthrough those stages as well
that we're now focused on.
It's okay, yeah, you're present.
You have a 40 something page.
Publication and you do what youneed to do.
You should be at 80, right?
You should be now do be amultimedia organization.
You should have 40, 50 percentmarket of homie for who's
advertising it.
So all these things need to belined up as well.
(26:17):
So taking them through thatwhole process, that's been very
different for a lot of people.
But I will tell you the talentthat was there, a lot of them,
the cheapest staff.
It was formerly Sean's executiveassistant, the head of
marketing.
He was doing all this incrediblerebranding and everything was
like a marketing assistant.
And she's just, they've reallyjust stepped into their roles
(26:42):
and stepped up in a way that Ilove.
So we've always givenopportunity.
That is something that I'vealways done.
Give them opportunity until theycan't.
And then that becomes adifficult conversation.
Yep.
Yep.
No, that's a really interestingpoint.
And actually two things on that.
So the.
I often talk about this datamonetization course I took at
MIT, and one of the big thingsthey talk about, and it has to
(27:03):
happen in the beginning, is onceyou have your vision down and
you're like, you've got tofigure out who's going to jump
on the train and be excellent.
Who's going to jump on the trainand fake it till they make it.
And who's just not going to jumpon the train.
There you go.
There's your present.
It's very similar types ofthings.
I think the one thing I loveabout the book that it talks a
lot about is that as leaders,we're responsible for everything
(27:26):
because we're responsible forthe system.
We are responsible fordeveloping and putting in place
the systems.
And you can't say we can't get agood salesperson in this market
because we just can't.
Let's be honest, we're doingsomething wrong if you can't get
a good salesperson.
So it's changing that mindsetaround, we're responsible at the
end of the day, the buck stopswith me.
(27:47):
And then ultimately to Sean.
I was on a podcast.
I was a guest on someone'spodcast and we were talking
about the sales team and salesskills and I have this
philosophy.
I'm more enlightened now than Iwas when I was leading sales,
but it's not always thesalesperson's fault actually.
There are so many factors thatare preventing a salesperson
from being that a player.
(28:08):
They could be in the wrong rolein sales.
Maybe they are more enterpriseversus transactional data to
tell you that, right?
They may be not being coachedthe right way.
That's what we found mostly.
And you should be using data ofwho are the A players, how are
they performing and what arethey doing every day and say,
we're going to take those threethings.
They are consistently speakingseven, 25 percent of the time
(28:30):
versus 75 percent and you knowthat because you're using gone
there.
They have their followup iswithin 24 hours from the time a
proposal goes out.
They have, that has nothing todo with revenue.
And that's the other part aboutthe book.
If you're focusing just onrevenue and profit, you're
missing out on so much else.
Absolutely.
So I think the other part withthe sales piece of it too, is
that it really is.
(28:52):
We keep thinking of salespeople.
Everyone in our organization isa salesperson.
Our office managers aresalespeople, our graphic
designers who interact with thecustomers all the time because
we've designed all this stuffare salespeople.
So we're going through that.
And so what does that look?
What does present look like forthat role versus competitive
versus dominant?
How do you go through all thosedifferent layers?
And that's become veryimportant.
(29:13):
Yeah.
That's actually really lineswith this revenue room
constructs that we talk abouthere a lot.
And it's a very foreignconversation.
To a lot of the companies Ispeak to, but my take is anyone
who touches the customer, Idon't care if it's the people
writing your content or it's theperson who's producing your
event or the person who'ssending out the invoices or it's
(29:33):
the marketing team who'ssupposed to be supporting the
sales team.
If they're not aligned and alsorewarded.
For revenue and customeroutcomes, how are you ever going
to be able to be optimal 100percent in business performance?
100 percent And you talk aboutgiving them oftentimes not being
(29:53):
the salesperson for it.
Obviously, most of the time it'snot giving them the right data,
not preparing them with theinformation they need.
Empowering yours with the fuel.
We're coming up on time, and Ijust wanted to ask, and I know
you can't give me Specificnumbers, but can you just share
a little bit about what yourgrowth is looking like right
now?
So we have been consistentlyGrowing year over year both top
(30:16):
line and EBITDA about 20 to 25percent.
That's great Which is a we willin our five year trajectory That
I committed to Sean we willdouble Our top and bottom line,
which is a hell of a journey andwe're growing.
And that's, but again, it's notjust about that.
I know that's really important.
And that's why we're here.
It's not a not for profit, whichhelps because everyone's
(30:37):
focused.
Problem in not for profits.
And I spent many years in them,and I love them, and I will
never see anything bad, but theproblem is that there's so many
competing priorities, and youcan never get as much movement
as you need because of thosecompeting priorities.
Because everyone has a view ofwhat it should be, and sometimes
(30:58):
it's for altruistic reasons,which is wonderful.
It's great.
Sometimes it's for, the problemis that in the world of not for
profits and associations,there's a whole entire group of
companies and businesses thatare for profit competing against
nine out of 10 of theirproducts.
So all they're left with is theone over there that is
altruistic.
Which is not sustainable.
No, absolutely.
And actually just interesting,on a side note with associations
(31:21):
who are doing like membershipand Yeah.
They have events and media andeducate, like the amount of data
they're sitting on is actuallyhuge.
Extraordinary.
Huge.
And it's all disconnected.
Yeah.
And because of, I, there's some,the way that they're structured
and their KPIs and motivations.
Yeah.
It's just sitting there.
The group I was with beforeAssociation for Corporate
(31:41):
Growth, we had acquired a datacompany called GF Data, and it
was from these two founderswho'd been in the industry,
mergers and acquisitionsforever.
They just did an amazing jobwith it.
And I knew if we could buy thisand put it on our platform,
which has absolutely acceleratedits growth.
And it's been such a huge brightside for them because they have
something there that's reallytalking about the M& A world and
(32:03):
what's happening and what dealAll the different points that
they look at.
So again, a lot of peoplewouldn't have thought about M& A
in an association, but we did,even at the NAVC.
When I first started at theNAVC, I said, okay, we have a
great conference.
We were a one hit wonder.
We need to be a multimediaintegrated solution for our
(32:24):
veterinarians and our veterinarytechnicians and our practice
managers and all the differentpeople who make up that
important healthcare role foranimals.
And I went out and looked formedia properties I could buy.
And then once we were able tobuy them and pull them on the
plane, they exploded and thesame thing with an online did
we've created an online digitaltraining thing called that
folio.
(32:44):
And at the time it was like, itwas a small portion.
Guess what happens?
COVID hits blows up in a goodway.
So it's sometimes it's timing,but it's always thinking about
what are the different piecesthat need to be in place at a
certain time.
Sometimes they don't hit rightaway.
Sometimes it takes a little bitof maturation to get there.
No, for sure, and it's, and Ithink I read about when you
(33:05):
were, your tenure at NAVC youOh, yeah, for sure.
But again, great team.
It wasn't me.
It was the team, right?
The person who took it overafter me.
He was a CFO.
Great leadership.
Still growing like crazy.
I think that last I heard waslike, I, when I left, it was 18,
I think I just heard it was like28 or 30, 000.
(33:26):
So that type of trajectory andthat legacy and their media
properties continue to grow.
That's cool.
That's fun.
That's what I love to see andhear and watch.
You left a great legacy there.
It was a great place to be.
And that was one of those placesthat you just, you know, again,
veterinarians and the like,they're just, they're incredible
people.
Let me shift gears a little bit.
And I'm going to, what do youthink the biggest challenges
(33:48):
are?
For the industry as a whole,like media right now, like
there's a lot of thingshappening and you're in a really
great spot because your market'sso vibrant and you're doing very
innovative things, but you'rehearing a lot about what's
happening with the lawsuits withAI and chat to BT or chat to BT
and Emails now becoming muchmore difficult and Google's
(34:10):
changing its algorithm, sopeople are losing 40 percent of
their traffic and that's allshort term to me.
That stuff's always there.
Yeah.
What do you see happening?
To me, it's always comes down togetting the attention, mind
share, being able to breakthrough and be visible and be
current and what that lookslike.
And that's where a lot ofpublic, whether it's a
publication or a digitalproduct, they struggle.
(34:31):
Like, how do you get past?
Yeah.
All that's out there.
I think most, I forgot the agegroup or people are getting
their news from TikTok.
Yes.
Okay.
So you can say, oh, that'shorrible.
That's it.
When I was a kid, I read, no onecares what it was like.
It is what it is.
So how do you sit in that worldof sharing that?
Our marketing team was reallyfocused on making sure that we
(34:54):
are relevant and available.
And I'll tell you, all thosepeople who said print is dead.
Print is still killing it, butyou've got to be focused.
You can't be time magazinebecause you're getting time
magazine every day on yourphone.
Yes.
Generalist will not work anymorein print.
Specialists will.
And I think that's across theboard too, even like with the
(35:16):
way with digital and it's justreally knowing your domain.
And being that thought leaderthat entrusted the go to, and I
think that's becoming more andmore important because you
really need to, and I don't liketo use the word own your
audience.
You don't own an audience.
You engage an audience.
They come to you because theytrust you, but you want them
coming back over and overbecause of these investments
(35:39):
you've made and being anauthoritative voice.
I think that the thing that I'vealways been fortunate is I never
operate out of fear.
I always operate out ofopportunity.
And so when people are like, Ohmy God, yeah.
I think it's great.
Yeah.
I don't know where it's going totake us.
Jamie Dimon was just on TVsaying that within so many
years, people will be working athree and a half day work week
because the AI will be, but in apositive way.
(36:01):
So then all of a sudden youstart to say everything that we
talk about, the direconsequences of population
decline is all based on theassumption that you have to have
so many workers in the market todo this.
We're having population decline.
We're seeing that now in China.
We're seeing it in all thesedifferent places, right?
So AI starts to become that playthat says, maybe it's not as
bad.
(36:21):
You know that, okay, just on aside note, it's like either
we're too many people on theplanet or we're full.
Exactly.
Now it's become, oh my god,we're not going to have enough.
We're not going to have enough.
Because growth is always basedon population.
But I will say then the answerto the question is the biggest
challenge or a threat to theindustry is fear any industry
Yeah, any industry operating ina fear which is why I hate
(36:44):
politics today because politicsand today has become a zero sum
game Of who can run to thelowest common denominator of
fear scare tactics Absolutely.
And negativity.
And negativity.
And I think that I will go backto it every single time, it
doesn't work.
No.
It'll work in the short term.
You'll see it work in the shortterm, but it'll always wind up
(37:06):
boomeranging back.
I'm hoping we're at thatboomerang point.
I think people have to be,because I think they're tired.
They're exhausted by it.
They're tired of everyoneyelling at each other, they're
tired of everyone exaggeratingwhat everyone's doing.
This is not a political point oneither side.
It's just simply, people areexhausted.
By not focusing on stuff that isreally important to take care
(37:26):
of.
And I, yeah, we should haveanother podcast about this.
Yeah, about politics.
But, I almost feel like,alright, you already answered
this, but answer it again.
We're going to do some rapidfire questions.
Best business book?
I will always say Good to Great.
To this day, in fact, Pivot,Transform Pivot, Disrupt,
Transform has a lot of theprinciples from Good to Great.
Okay, and Jim Collins is the?
(37:47):
Jim Collins, yeah.
He was a speaker at a few of ourevents.
Yeah.
Best book that you've read forpleasure lately?
Oh boy.
I actually just finished readinga book and it's just because
it's on top of my mind.
I think it's called The Man WhoHarness gravity or the man it
was about this Not very wellknown Scientist and in the 50s
40s 50s 60s who started doingthese experiments supposedly
(38:10):
with gravity and how it wascovered off It's what just a
fascinating understanding ofscience and the Cold War and
everything happening Not thebest book ever read.
It's funny because last night mywife and I were talking about
Tom Wolfe's Men in Full, whichis now on Netflix.
I just saw that.
Oh, the book is ten times betterOkay, the series is good But I
will tell, I told my son, readhim, read a man in full because
(38:32):
Tom Wolfe, there's just not alot of amazing writers.
No, I got to read that becauseI, we just, I was like, Oh,
let's watch it.
But it was fascinating.
It really was like, wow, thecloud Atlas.
So I know that you only askedfor one, but A Cloud Atlas is
another incredible book that Ilove.
But yeah.
All right.
We got my list.
All right.
I already know the answer tothis because, but coffee or tea?
(38:53):
Oh my God.
I'm a Starbucks.
My joke in my career is I nevernot have a Starbucks cup.
Can you tell everyone how muchcoffee we're talking about?
I do two of these every morning.
I do two five shot Americanos.
Wow.
All right.
I'm going to try one of them oneof these days and I'll see how I
sleep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
I sleep great.
Oh my gosh, you're the caffeineman.
(39:14):
One song you always have to singalong to?
Born to Run, Bruce Springsteen.
Oh, you're a Bruce fan?
Oh, absolutely.
I'm a Jersey girl.
There you go.
Couldn't get into him.
No, how can you not like Bruce?
Are you a Bon Jovi girl?
I prefer Bon Jovi over them, butI have to say I'm neither.
I was like the disco queen.
Oh, okay.
So I strive to be whatever youneed me to be.
You're a Bee Gees.
Yeah, Bee Gees was like thefirst one.
(39:35):
I had their first album.
Alright, fair.
Love that they're geniuses.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Favorite sport?
I have to say lacrosse becausemy son is at Penn State just
graduating, but he's played allfour years.
You love lacrosse?
Yeah, it's been a, but I do lovefootball.
Okay.
Yeah.
And then the last question isthe weirdest place you've ever
traveled to and why?
(39:56):
I've been, so I think the, Idon't know if we'd call it the
weirdest, but it is a placecalled Jeju Island off the coast
of South Korea.
It's like their resort area.
And it, they don't see a lot ofWestern tourists there, it's
growing now, obviously.
But, so there was thisfascination with blue eyed
blonde hair, I had hair at thetime, or some, right?
(40:17):
And it was also where you'veheard stories about the lady
divers.
And these women, when it wasthis really incredible culture
that started, the men are likeuseless and drunkards, and I'm
not making this up.
And the lady divers are outthere every morning and they're
able to dive.
Down to incredibly deep levelswithout any gear and stuff.
And they pull up these seaurchins and everything and uni
(40:40):
and all this and being able tomeet them and then with an
interpreter, talk to them.
And it was just this incredibleenvironment.
It wasn't overdeveloped or superdeveloped yet.
Cause you go in and even toBeijing or other places, it
still feels like you're insomewhere in America.
It's become that common, right?
There was like that uniquedifferent type of thing and it
was just I love Asia.
(41:02):
I have to go I have to go backto Asia.
I only went I've been once I wasin I went to Thailand and then
actually went to Cambodia toAngkor Wat, which was a is that
amazing?
It was one of I would say it wasa life altering trip Actually,
it was just there was so muchintensity about everything you
were experiencing and the peopleand They're actually incredibly
(41:22):
humble people with an incredibleamount of dignity.
They don't beg at all, eventhough they need, they asked to
work for you.
It's I just got goosebumps.
I felt the ties are the same wayto me They're just such an
incredibly, you know kind aspeople and we just there's like
an aura there and there is yeahThere's a grace.
Yeah a total grace and thenmalaysia to this island in the
(41:45):
malaysia.
Yeah I can't start with thepier.
Anyway, the king goes there andso Yeah, i've been to kuala
lumpur.
Look I could talk about that.
I love traveling but now Can'tstand it.
Really?
It's just, I feel like it'sbecome so, the world is really
small.
Yeah.
We always talk about the worldis flat.
I think Thomas Friedman.
It's like everywhere you go,it's just become so crowded.
(42:08):
Yeah.
And so overwrought.
I don't know.
No, I agree with you.
I'm just getting old.
No, I think that a lot of theEven New York.
I love a New Yorker.
Yeah.
At heart.
Yeah.
We had an apartment, my lastrole in the Upper East Side.
Yeah.
It's just so busy.
It is exhausting.
And I love it there.
I hate to say it, but I thinkthis might be age.
(42:28):
It's age.
It's age.
I'm old.
I'm calm and peace.
I'm old.
I get it.
I know.
It's okay.
My nieces live in New York.
They're like, what do you meanyou can't stand coming here?
My son too, yeah.
Oh my god, it's too crazy.
Yeah, there's just too muchgoing on.
All right.
You're allowed.
All right.
Thank you so much.
for having me.
I look forward to working withyou more in the future.
Absolutely.
We're really excited abouteverything you're doing and your
(42:50):
very exciting future.
So thank you everyone forjoining us.
And again, don't forget to checkout the show notes for the link
to sign up to receive firstnotification when we launch our
exciting new peer network andevent series.
Thanks so much.
Heather Holst-Knudsen (43:03):
You can find us@2klabs.com.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to TheRevenue Room by H2K Labs.
Subscribe to our channel today.
Welcome to the Revenue Room,presented by H2K Labs.
(00:05):
Here's your host, HeatherHolst-Knudsen.
Hi everyone.
Before we jump into today'sepisode, we've got some exciting
news to share.
The Revenue Room and H2K Labsare launching a groundbreaking
peer to peer network focusing onrevenue growth.
And as listeners, we want you tobe the first to know.
(00:25):
So we're offering you theopportunity to sign up to be one
of the first we notify when weofficially launch.
But our program will includepeer to peer collaboration and
advisory events in idylliclocations such as Sarasota, our
hometown, and research.
And things like playbooks,bootcamps, and other types of
support and content to help youaccelerate your journey to
(00:48):
profitable revenue growth.
We'll be sharing the link tosign up in our show notes.
I'm delighted to invite ThomasBohn here to our show.
Thomas is the president andchief operating officer of the
rebranded under a new corporatestructure.
It's good to be here, Heather.
Thank you so much for having me.
We are now.
(01:08):
The HomeMag is actually acorporation underneath Advanced
Home Improvement Media, becausewe're so much now more than just
the HomeMag.
We're a lot of different brandsand growing very quickly, so We
had to make sure that our brandsand our lines of product aligned
accordingly.
I actually can't wait to getinto that because I think some
of the brands that you'velaunched that are adjacent to
(01:28):
the HomeMag, it's actually quitefascinating how you're looking
at the business.
But I met Tom five, six yearsago when you were the CEO of
NABC.
It might have been a littlelonger.
Okay.
North American VeterinaryCommunity.
I think we were, you were withanother digital company.
Feather.
I remember.
Yes.
And we had met and we weretalking about the.
The possibilities of workingtogether.
(01:49):
I don't know if we did, at thetime.
I don't think we did.
Yeah, I can't remember.
Yeah, but and then we circledback once everything settled and
Brought me back to Florida andto, to this new industry.
And now we're down the streetfrom each other.
I look, I think what could bebetter than being in Sarasota in
the middle of the afternoon?
What a gorgeous area.
That's right.
We're excited to have you here.
The HomeMag is actually a familyowned business that has been on
(02:12):
operation for 21 years now.
The founders Sean and DebbieCampbell they had set a vision.
They lived in South Africa andthey had set a vision that said,
essentially we want to.
Be in the States and we want tocreate a company that has a
lasting impact and isprofitable.
And they basically visioned thiswhole thing out.
In very general terms.
(02:33):
And there was a similar type ofbusiness that was in South
Africa, Cape town at the time.
And they basically took thatconcept, adapted it to the U S
market, started with onepublication in Fort Myers, Cape
Coral area or Southwest Florida.
And it wasn't even called TheHomeMag at the time.
It was like, I forgot the namenow, but it's a terrible name.
(02:55):
I saved it the brand back now,but.
They stayed with it, and theyare what I like to call a 22
year, 21 year overnightsensation.
Because this is the, theygrinded and saved.
So focus until I became thecompany it is today and 68
markets, half of it franchise,half of it, corporate owned now
so many additional products inthe mix and stuff that we're,
(03:17):
we'll talk about, but it's areally cool entrepreneurial
story.
And Oh, and by the way, to makeit even better, they sailed
here.
So it wasn't like they got on aplane.
Wait, hold on.
No, literally, so they bought aboat together as a couple and
they said before we do anythingwe're going to go around the
world and do charters becausethey love their big sailors and
everything.
So they're doing charters andpart of their vision plan was
(03:40):
one of our customers will helpus decide where we should go in
the states.
And one of their customerssuggested Cape Coral, which at
the time was this boom town.
You remember the pre 2008 andthat thing, you couldn't go
wrong buying a piece of dirt inCape Coral.
So one thing led to another,they literally landed here like
the pilgrims and in Cape Coraland started this business.
(04:03):
And obviously through the yearsgrew, it started with just them.
Then they franchised it and thefranchise started to grow.
And today is a, we have On thecorporate national level, we
have just about a hundredemployees and then across the
entire organization andfranchise.
We're about 250 It's a prettycool story that they have.
Oh, it's so interesting, but Ilove that franchise angle.
(04:24):
Yeah But just to back up a bit Ithink your background is so
fascinating just from your ownindividual level in that you've
been in Association you've ledassociations you've led media
companies trade shows Now you'releading a B2C media company,
you've been deep into P& E andmergers and acquisitions.
How does this all form Tom now?
(04:46):
So it's interesting, my firstreal job, okay, I was coming out
of business school.
I just started in the middle ofbusiness school and my wife and
I wanted to move to the TampaBay area.
And there was a chamber ofcommerce there called the
Oldsmar Chamber of Commerce.
And it was strugglingfinancially and all these types
of issues.
And I vividly remember theywanted to hire a CEO.
(05:06):
No one wanted the damn job,right?
Because it was 18, 000 a year.
And if that sounds like a littlenow, it was a little then too,
right?
There wasn't a lot.
So there was me who had doneinternships and stuff in
chambers and was ambitious andall those things.
And I said, I'll do it.
The whole fake it till you makeit type of thing, but you knew
just enough.
In the course of two years, wehad literally grown it double
the size of it.
(05:27):
Convinced the city and thecounty to donate a building to
us as a welcome center.
Put in all these greatopportunities for the local
economy in terms of economicdevelopment.
So I was able to cut my teeth ona number of different things,
including, publishing and therest around business related
issues.
And that was probably, I don'tthink I've had roles that were
(05:49):
Chief level, but I've never had,but not like I was never like a
manager or anything like that.
So my first job was as a CEO andthat kind of continued that
thing.
And I became known for thiswhole idea of disruption.
And it's something that's reallyembedded in me and being able to
go into a company that hasreally good bones and then
(06:10):
saying, where can it go fromhere?
And I think that's when Sean andI met and a recruiter came to me
and was talking to me and weliterally hit it off within the
first couple of minutes talkingabout what could this be?
And that's what, and that'swhere we're at.
So literally the plan that Ipitched to Sean when we had met
on that first meeting is theplan we're enacting today as we
(06:33):
are growing the Hallmark.
I'm jumping around from what Ihope my questions would be, but
that leads me to in one of yourbios I read, you have this
really great statement, Tomenvisions what he wants to
accomplish and then finds themeans to attain it.
So it's almost like you went inand met.
Your CEO and said, yeah, here'sthe plan, and I'm going to give
(06:54):
you the roadmap to, and you'reexecuting it right now.
Yeah.
So in fairness, Sean had theseincredible ideas.
He's a visionary, but he will bethe first person to tell you
it's taken the vision to theactual implementation that was
always been challenging gettingthe right people around to, to
do that.
So for me, I am able to sit atthat vision level.
(07:15):
But then to say, how are wegoing to get there?
And that to me has always beenabout surrounding myself.
And I know this is cliche, butsurrounding myself with people
who are a lot more talented thanmyself and giving them the tools
and giving them the freedom andgiving them the ability.
My job at the end of the day isto set help with Sean, set the
vision of the organization.
(07:35):
And then to move obstacles outof the way and make sure our
culture is always top notch.
And that's what I continually goback to focus and focus on.
And we just did a, I'm reallyproud of this.
We just did a.
Survey with Inc.
500 and it was the best placesto work.
We scored in the very, very topof companies for our employee
(07:56):
motivation and satisfaction andthe rest.
And that's something that for acompany here, I'm coming on two
years where we've changedliterally everything from top to
bottom.
And to get that type of feedbackand to be so incredibly
profitable at the same time.
That's extraordinary for a fewdifferent reasons because the
change that is happening at yourcompany is enormous because
(08:20):
You're going from primarilyprint revenues.
Yeah to adding in Not onlyadding in digital solutions, but
you're actually leapfroggingother businesses who might've
already started on the journeyand you're like moving to AI and
all of these incredible datamonetization opportunities,
which has an impact directly onthe type of people you're
(08:41):
hiring, the way the company hasto operate in terms of how
you're using data internally tomanage the business.
It's a very different thancreating and publishing a print
publication.
So when I first came to it, Ididn't look at it as a.
Print publication.
And I literally forbid the teamfrom ever saying that.
We are a multimedia, techenabled organization that
(09:04):
supports the home improvementindustry.
That's what we do.
And that could manifest in manydifferent forms.
Print happens to be one of thecore forms, right?
But it's just a piece of it.
At the end of the day, our jobis to clear the path.
And that's a phrase that Seanand team put together many years
ago.
I love it.
We use it every day.
Clear the path between thecustomer, the homeowner and the
(09:27):
advertiser to bring incrediblevisions of your home to life in
an easy way.
And that's what it's always beenabout, inspiring with incredible
photography and connecting tothe best home improvement people
instead of the cheapest or the,it's always about that fine line
between quality and competitive.
(09:49):
And I think that's really whatit was about.
So when I looked at the company,I didn't see a print company.
I saw a company in 68 marketswith a local sales team.
That's what triggered in myhead.
And that was the first thing Isaid, he's, what do you think
about the print?
And I said, it is what it isthat it's not like I said, what
I love though, is you haveliterally have on the ground
salespeople in 68 markets, andthat's something that most
(10:12):
organizations.
And then replicating.
And then, so for me, it was amatter of taking this incredibly
strong brand and then bolting onproducts that make sense based
on the feedback we were hearingfrom our advertisers.
And it's been really exciting.
That actually, that feed on thestreet construct that you have
with the salespeople andregionally located, that was
(10:32):
very much with my former familybusiness, Thomas Publishing,
they had the whole independentcontractor system.
Which actually got grandfatheredin by President Clinton, that
they could exclusively work forThomas.
But yeah, it was, they had themall around the United States.
I think at one point there werelike 600.
It went down from there after awhile, but it was one of the
core that I would say is alittle bit of a secret weapon.
(10:54):
Okay.
So let's talk about the plannow, right?
This plan, you've an integratedmedia portfolio that serves your
two sides of your customerconstituency, right?
You've got audience.
And you have your advertisers,and you've launched a series of
very interesting digitalsolutions.
(11:14):
Yeah.
Let's talk about that.
So we started out very simple.
It was, okay, let's get intoemail and we partnered with some
great companies to make surethat we were delivering the best
in class.
We have a penetration rate ofour mail list for our emails of
about 65 to 70 percent hits andthe open rates are phenomenal,
right?
But we wouldn't settle becauseso many people go out there and
(11:36):
grab email lists and they'reterrible and it's junk and it's
spam and it doesn't work.
We wanted to have something thatworked.
And it's a premium, right?
So we're able to charge for thatprice.
So it was a really good kind ofdip in our toe in the water.
And I can tell you that as interms of a percentage of our
local market sales, it's alreadygrown at 15, 20%.
And that's just where a lot ofgroups are seeing a decline in
(11:59):
the beginning of this year inadvertising because of the fear
of the elections and all thoseother types of things, right?
We have not seen that because ofwhat we've been able to do.
With this, but we were much moreambitious.
And we, again, talking aboutthat local sales team and what
we wanted to do was it wasn't afar walk from you have this
incredible print publication.
You have emails, you've got alocal sales team.
(12:20):
There should be a marketplacethat's connecting these
incredible advertisers.
With homeowners, because a lotof people are focused on this,
right?
Or they're focused on theirlaptop or whatever.
But we didn't want to justcreate a directory.
That's everyone has a directoryand there, some of them are
good.
Some of them are not good.
We wanted to create anexperience and that experience
was really around AI andartificial intelligence and this
(12:42):
whole idea of creating acharacter called homie.
And homie is a, is an AI house,right?
Homie is amazing and kids lovehomie.
There's actual homie.
Outfits now and there's homiegear and the rest, but you're
able to go on and actually havea conversation with homie about
your house.
And it started out, we reallywanted to make sure that it
(13:03):
worked well and we walked,crawled, walked before we ran.
And it was just, talk to usabout what you want and we'll
start to suggest the contractorsthat will be best for you,
whether it's windows or doors orpainting or whatever, the case
may be now.
And when this is about to rollout, By the way, this will be
across the nation and an awesomeadvertising campaign that we
(13:24):
just shot in Orlando, but nowyou'll be able to go on and
upload photos of your kitchen,photos of your living room,
photos of your home and tellhomie, Hey, I need help with
this.
Give me a look that looks likea.
California, chic beach, whateverthe thing is that people are
doing farmhouse chic, there's amillion different things and
it'll start to generate that foryou and actually give you photos
(13:47):
and then on top of that, it'llstart to say, here's the folks
who can help you who areconnected with the home and
connect them.
Now, what's important to thisthough, is that we don't want to
be in the business of sellingpeople's information.
Because that's right there.
We don't want to be in thebusiness of selling leads.
Okay.
We want to be in the business ofconnectivity.
So we connect them and let thoseconversations happen
(14:07):
organically.
We, we never sit, so we're notgoing to call, I got I think it
was HomeAdvisor or one of those.
I tested just to see.
Yeah.
And I think I got 20 calls, likehunting down my house.
I don't, we don't want thatbecause that's not a good
experience for our advertisers.
And it's certainly not a goodexperience for homeowners.
Our goal was again, clear thepath, make it easy.
(14:28):
If they wanted to connect, theycan get all the information,
whether they want to connectwith the contractor.
It's easy to do.
And it's out there.
Yeah, it's out there.
And that's interesting becauseone, I'm doing my kitchen, so
I'm all in this right now.
And for people who don't want tohire an interior designer or
don't, or can't afford it orwant to do it on their own, it's
(14:49):
a very it's a huge investment.
It's very I get nervous, what ifI pick the wrong thing?
I want to see things.
I'm very visual.
So this idea that you can notonly upload your own.
Or manifest it.
You could literally just put inqueues of what you want.
Will you ask them after they'redone with their kitchen to
upload the finished product?
Absolutely.
Here's the great part.
(15:09):
So in an iteration coming out,you can actually take those
photos and put them in Homie'sgarage.
So Homie has a garage and youcould store your stuff.
Everyone stores their stuff intheir garage.
Yeah.
Homie will have a garage and youstore it in there.
And again, it's free.
You We're not selling your data,we're not, and, but this is, I
think the brilliant part aboutall this, Heather, is that I
think when you and I first met,you really triggered and you
(15:31):
said, you really have to getmore data in terms of who you
are and what you are.
So we partnered with MRI, whoyou know, to do a data, to a
review of our product, really doan assessment.
What do people think?
We just got those results backlast week.
and a reader of the home mag.
First of all, our readership isabout 70%, which is through the
roof, but they're three and ahalf times more likely to engage
(15:54):
in a home improvement podproject within the next two to
three months.
Wow.
350 percent higher because ofthe focus on our data and all on
our list, which gets back towhat you've been preaching.
Because you're reallyaccelerating and helping a
person make better, smarterdecisions and also reducing the
risk and the fear of theinvestment, which is a lot of
(16:15):
the lag, the time lag from whenwe do it.
So I think that's phenomenal.
But I think there's somethingelse we talked about that two
things.
One is.
So when people are entering intheir prompts and homey, you're
actually getting a lot of dataabout specific types of buyers
and specific markets.
What's trending?
I was actually looking at yourdata yesterday, the sample data,
(16:37):
and it was like, Hi, everyonewants to redo their garage in
this area.
Yeah, it gets better.
Because what do we do with that?
I don't want to sell their dataanymore.
We're never going to be in thatbusiness, right?
That's not what we do.
But we're actually going to beworking now with you all and
with MRI to put together anational annual Home Improvement
Trends Survey.
To talk about what they'respending, what they're doing,
(16:58):
where it's going to be.
So that we're also a source ofdata in general to share.
It's just changing that again.
It was a print publicationworking great.
What else can you be?
How else can you envision it?
There's another angle there too.
If you're getting all of thisdata in around the buyer,
including me being able to mapto income and again, helping
(17:19):
them accelerate their journey ispartnering with lending
institutions that would want tobe.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So FinTech is something we'reexploring.
If you think about where themarketplace or homey sits, It's
only in the very beginning.
We're just in the beginning ofthis journey.
So now imagine it brings up thisincredible photo of what your
(17:40):
kitchen's going to look like.
And now it can actually start totag products onto it, right?
And then it can say, Hey, youreally like this?
Why not get the HomeMagDreamCard, which can help you
pay for it, right?
Which is now supported by abanking partner and when it
becomes a seamless process.
And again, we are just clearingthe path to make all that
happen.
We're not sitting here.
(18:01):
Badgering them.
That's not what we do.
It'll never be what we do.
We don't sell leads.
We sell facilitation.
We connect.
Curation, facilitation, andyou're sparking creativity,
again, in your audience to helpthem again on that journey.
Absolutely.
Tell me about your pet brand.
Again, thinking about ourproduct in a more holistic
fashion, the home includes somany powerful things.
(18:24):
And certainly in my world, Idon't think the home.
Is as complete without a pet,right?
We are about to launch the petmag.
Which will be a ride along withthe home bag, which really
starts to focus and get intowhat can you be doing in your
home with this very special partof your home.
I've got two amazing dogs andhad dogs most of my life and
(18:46):
they're critical and they're inthe home all the time.
Two things.
I have my own, I have a roughcolleague by the way.
Yeah.
His name is Frankie.
He's all white.
And I always say to my, my, myhusband, whose brother is
single, I'm like, he just needsto come over and want walk
Frankie.
Like he is a baby magnet.
Yes.
But two things.
One is I read somewhere that wecould be in the deepest
depression, but you know what?
(19:07):
Spend on animals is gonna alwaysgo up home and animal.
So could we not be focused onthe two best things?
And the great thing about thatis that there, the media play in
animal health.
Is very disjointed.
There's not a major player.
So we think there's a lot ofopportunity for us to really
focus on that.
I have a lot of background as wetalked about from NAVC know that
world really appreciateveterinarians immensely.
(19:30):
I think they're the mostbrilliant people I've ever met.
Truly.
They're just so caring and smartand love working with them.
Every minute of it.
And I think there's so much wecan do because there's a lot of
great stories to tell andsuccess.
But think about it.
Architects are designingkitchen.
With the pet in mind, I just wasthe bowls being into the island
and the water being fed.
(19:51):
So it's clear and draining outand so it's this constant
thought process and shadestructures outside for the pets
to be under and to sit on.
So all this is happening, and Ithink you need to think about
the home very holistically as afocal point.
What's been amazing for us froma data perspective is as we look
back on the years.
When we've been in recession, westill do well.
When we're growth, we still dowell because people are going to
(20:14):
say, I'm not going to buy itstraight too high.
I'm going to sit where I'm at,but I'm going to just do this.
People are offering 0%.
Oh, I'll go do this.
Then I'll upgrade mycountertops.
I'll paint the house that.
Always becomes a part of thenarrative.
Americans love their homes andthey love their pets.
I think especially since COVIDwhere people were hunkered down
at home and then people startedto realize how important the
(20:34):
home is in terms of really trulybeing your sanctuary.
But there's an interesting crosssell both in terms on the
audience side.
I think there's an interestingcross sell part.
If you're like getting data fromhomey and let's say They're
asking questions.
I want to include like thatthing about for pets.
Like I see, I saw one for ourdog, what you just described.
(20:55):
You automatically now have thatdata to do.
Oh, by the way, do you know thatwe have this, these pet
solutions for you as you'rethinking about how to improve
your pet's life in your home.
And our world is much moretightened.
So you could go on Instagram andthose types of things and find a
lot of what we're talking about,but it's huge.
We are literally focused on thehome and envisioning the home.
But again, the magic is becausewe have sales teams locally.
(21:18):
You talk about the brand.
The few other people in ourspace, they're sitting in New
York or they're sitting inDallas and they're calling all
around the country to getadvertising.
And they're mailing to everyone.
It's just a very different lookand feel of what it is and what
we are.
And I think that goes back tothe Campbells, Sean and Debbie,
Who always wanted to besomething different and special
(21:40):
even if it meant Losing businessor not getting business.
We never would compete on that.
Let's be the cheapest, right?
Let's be the best.
This reminds me of Freight well,it's now called firecrown media,
but Craig Fuller.
He bought some assets fromBonniere One of my top people is
(22:00):
a Bonniere I always pronounce itincorrectly by the way but he
is, he has acquired a lot oftheir like Marine and they're
flying the B2C, but, and hereally he got, he, he lopped off
the circulation.
He wanted only the best ones andhe's launching all of these
solutions around this highlypassionate audience, like
financing for the pilots, likethese, mass customization.
(22:24):
You find your target, you findyour niche, and that's what you
obsess with.
And that's what we do.
We are obsessed with people whowant to spend money on their
home.
And we don't want to be allthings to all people.
We don't go to apartment, otherpeople's mail to apartment.
Because if you can model inthere a rental, but there's a
lot of differences between usand others that I think it
(22:45):
matters in the end.
Do you have any plans to do anytype of events?
I'm I have an event backgroundis I've done 20, 000 attendee
shows.
We have a conference internallyfor us that's much, much
smaller.
I think there's a play there.
I just think we need to figureout that path together.
We're so focused on the data.
And the AI and those types ofthings right now, you only can
(23:06):
do so many things well at acertain time.
But I think that's a play.
Home shows and the like is aplace that we would want to
certainly be.
Even like TV, there's a lot ofAbsolutely.
There is, but I think there's a,there's an entire market there
now that, if you think aboutOTT, over the top, you don't
have to be on a big networkanymore.
You just have to be creative andbe different.
(23:27):
We're doing some cool stuff.
Cool stuff now on Tik Tok withhomey and the like, and our
commercials that are about tocome out for marketplace are
just phenomenal.
The creative team that's beeninvolved in those will start to
roll out nationally as we expandto all these new markets.
So I have to shift a little bitbecause this is everything
sounds so wonderful and greatand I love it, but I can't
(23:47):
imagine that.
This has, especially on the teamside, and I, and again, I having
led sales teams know how hard itis to change mindset if they're
accustomed to a certain way.
Have you encountered anychallenges or barriers you had
to break down to really helppeople jump on board this
(24:08):
vision?
There's definitely been a changein the environment.
So there's a lot of faces thatare new and there's some faces
that are no longer there becausethey were unable to make that
transition.
That's just part of kind ofbusiness.
I think the difference you'd askabout the difference between
being an association or not forprofit is that when you're
profitable, right?
And you're growing, it allowsyou to be bolder.
(24:31):
It allows you to make, it allowsyou to make decisions.
In the best interest of theorganization instead of
decisions in fear because yougot to make payroll or you got
to do this or it's got a breakeven situation, right?
I think because they have runsuch an amazingly careful
organization and we're notsuperfluous with expenses and
there's no We keep it.
(24:52):
Our revenue per employee is justastronomical.
We keep it very tight.
There's none of this glitz andextra bodies.
And we were always waiting toneed a person or to add them.
And I think that the people whoweren't able to make that shift
are the ones who just couldn'tget on board with the rate of
change, the speed of change.
So it's not that they disagreednecessarily with the path.
(25:15):
They just couldn't move at therate that we have to move in.
And I look, I'm never going tomake it.
I'm never going to apologize forthat because we're focused right
now on this book called pivot,disrupt and transform.
And it's become our mantra andour focus.
And we're taking through theentire organization and yeah,
it's a fantastic book and Ithink you'll get a lot out of
it.
And it really talks about thefact that great companies,
(25:36):
successful companies go throughthose phases and you continually
shift through them.
But it talks about the otherpart of it, which is really,
where are you participating,either whether you're a
franchise or you're apublication or you're an
employee?
Are you present?
Which is, you just show up, youdo it, you do your job, right?
Are you competitive, which isthat next level, or are you
dominant?
(25:57):
So it's really that progressionthrough those stages as well
that we're now focused on.
It's okay, yeah, you're present.
You have a 40 something page.
Publication and you do what youneed to do.
You should be at 80, right?
You should be now do be amultimedia organization.
You should have 40, 50 percentmarket of homie for who's
advertising it.
So all these things need to belined up as well.
(26:17):
So taking them through thatwhole process, that's been very
different for a lot of people.
But I will tell you the talentthat was there, a lot of them,
the cheapest staff.
It was formerly Sean's executiveassistant, the head of
marketing.
He was doing all this incrediblerebranding and everything was
like a marketing assistant.
And she's just, they've reallyjust stepped into their roles
(26:42):
and stepped up in a way that Ilove.
So we've always givenopportunity.
That is something that I'vealways done.
Give them opportunity until theycan't.
And then that becomes adifficult conversation.
Yep.
Yep.
No, that's a really interestingpoint.
And actually two things on that.
So the.
I often talk about this datamonetization course I took at
MIT, and one of the big thingsthey talk about, and it has to
(27:03):
happen in the beginning, is onceyou have your vision down and
you're like, you've got tofigure out who's going to jump
on the train and be excellent.
Who's going to jump on the trainand fake it till they make it.
And who's just not going to jumpon the train.
There you go.
There's your present.
It's very similar types ofthings.
I think the one thing I loveabout the book that it talks a
lot about is that as leaders,we're responsible for everything
(27:26):
because we're responsible forthe system.
We are responsible fordeveloping and putting in place
the systems.
And you can't say we can't get agood salesperson in this market
because we just can't.
Let's be honest, we're doingsomething wrong if you can't get
a good salesperson.
So it's changing that mindsetaround, we're responsible at the
end of the day, the buck stopswith me.
(27:47):
And then ultimately to Sean.
I was on a podcast.
I was a guest on someone'spodcast and we were talking
about the sales team and salesskills and I have this
philosophy.
I'm more enlightened now than Iwas when I was leading sales,
but it's not always thesalesperson's fault actually.
There are so many factors thatare preventing a salesperson
from being that a player.
(28:08):
They could be in the wrong rolein sales.
Maybe they are more enterpriseversus transactional data to
tell you that, right?
They may be not being coachedthe right way.
That's what we found mostly.
And you should be using data ofwho are the A players, how are
they performing and what arethey doing every day and say,
we're going to take those threethings.
They are consistently speakingseven, 25 percent of the time
(28:30):
versus 75 percent and you knowthat because you're using gone
there.
They have their followup iswithin 24 hours from the time a
proposal goes out.
They have, that has nothing todo with revenue.
And that's the other part aboutthe book.
If you're focusing just onrevenue and profit, you're
missing out on so much else.
Absolutely.
So I think the other part withthe sales piece of it too, is
that it really is.
(28:52):
We keep thinking of salespeople.
Everyone in our organization isa salesperson.
Our office managers aresalespeople, our graphic
designers who interact with thecustomers all the time because
we've designed all this stuffare salespeople.
So we're going through that.
And so what does that look?
What does present look like forthat role versus competitive
versus dominant?
How do you go through all thosedifferent layers?
And that's become veryimportant.
(29:13):
Yeah.
That's actually really lineswith this revenue room
constructs that we talk abouthere a lot.
And it's a very foreignconversation.
To a lot of the companies Ispeak to, but my take is anyone
who touches the customer, Idon't care if it's the people
writing your content or it's theperson who's producing your
event or the person who'ssending out the invoices or it's
(29:33):
the marketing team who'ssupposed to be supporting the
sales team.
If they're not aligned and alsorewarded.
For revenue and customeroutcomes, how are you ever going
to be able to be optimal 100percent in business performance?
100 percent And you talk aboutgiving them oftentimes not being
(29:53):
the salesperson for it.
Obviously, most of the time it'snot giving them the right data,
not preparing them with theinformation they need.
Empowering yours with the fuel.
We're coming up on time, and Ijust wanted to ask, and I know
you can't give me Specificnumbers, but can you just share
a little bit about what yourgrowth is looking like right
now?
So we have been consistentlyGrowing year over year both top
(30:16):
line and EBITDA about 20 to 25percent.
That's great Which is a we willin our five year trajectory That
I committed to Sean we willdouble Our top and bottom line,
which is a hell of a journey andwe're growing.
And that's, but again, it's notjust about that.
I know that's really important.
And that's why we're here.
It's not a not for profit, whichhelps because everyone's
(30:37):
focused.
Problem in not for profits.
And I spent many years in them,and I love them, and I will
never see anything bad, but theproblem is that there's so many
competing priorities, and youcan never get as much movement
as you need because of thosecompeting priorities.
Because everyone has a view ofwhat it should be, and sometimes
(30:58):
it's for altruistic reasons,which is wonderful.
It's great.
Sometimes it's for, the problemis that in the world of not for
profits and associations,there's a whole entire group of
companies and businesses thatare for profit competing against
nine out of 10 of theirproducts.
So all they're left with is theone over there that is
altruistic.
Which is not sustainable.
No, absolutely.
And actually just interesting,on a side note with associations
(31:21):
who are doing like membershipand Yeah.
They have events and media andeducate, like the amount of data
they're sitting on is actuallyhuge.
Extraordinary.
Huge.
And it's all disconnected.
Yeah.
And because of, I, there's some,the way that they're structured
and their KPIs and motivations.
Yeah.
It's just sitting there.
The group I was with beforeAssociation for Corporate
(31:41):
Growth, we had acquired a datacompany called GF Data, and it
was from these two founderswho'd been in the industry,
mergers and acquisitionsforever.
They just did an amazing jobwith it.
And I knew if we could buy thisand put it on our platform,
which has absolutely acceleratedits growth.
And it's been such a huge brightside for them because they have
something there that's reallytalking about the M& A world and
(32:03):
what's happening and what dealAll the different points that
they look at.
So again, a lot of peoplewouldn't have thought about M& A
in an association, but we did,even at the NAVC.
When I first started at theNAVC, I said, okay, we have a
great conference.
We were a one hit wonder.
We need to be a multimediaintegrated solution for our
(32:24):
veterinarians and our veterinarytechnicians and our practice
managers and all the differentpeople who make up that
important healthcare role foranimals.
And I went out and looked formedia properties I could buy.
And then once we were able tobuy them and pull them on the
plane, they exploded and thesame thing with an online did
we've created an online digitaltraining thing called that
folio.
(32:44):
And at the time it was like, itwas a small portion.
Guess what happens?
COVID hits blows up in a goodway.
So it's sometimes it's timing,but it's always thinking about
what are the different piecesthat need to be in place at a
certain time.
Sometimes they don't hit rightaway.
Sometimes it takes a little bitof maturation to get there.
No, for sure, and it's, and Ithink I read about when you
(33:05):
were, your tenure at NAVC youOh, yeah, for sure.
But again, great team.
It wasn't me.
It was the team, right?
The person who took it overafter me.
He was a CFO.
Great leadership.
Still growing like crazy.
I think that last I heard waslike, I, when I left, it was 18,
I think I just heard it was like28 or 30, 000.
(33:26):
So that type of trajectory andthat legacy and their media
properties continue to grow.
That's cool.
That's fun.
That's what I love to see andhear and watch.
You left a great legacy there.
It was a great place to be.
And that was one of those placesthat you just, you know, again,
veterinarians and the like,they're just, they're incredible
people.
Let me shift gears a little bit.
And I'm going to, what do youthink the biggest challenges
(33:48):
are?
For the industry as a whole,like media right now, like
there's a lot of thingshappening and you're in a really
great spot because your market'sso vibrant and you're doing very
innovative things, but you'rehearing a lot about what's
happening with the lawsuits withAI and chat to BT or chat to BT
and Emails now becoming muchmore difficult and Google's
(34:10):
changing its algorithm, sopeople are losing 40 percent of
their traffic and that's allshort term to me.
That stuff's always there.
Yeah.
What do you see happening?
To me, it's always comes down togetting the attention, mind
share, being able to breakthrough and be visible and be
current and what that lookslike.
And that's where a lot ofpublic, whether it's a
publication or a digitalproduct, they struggle.
(34:31):
Like, how do you get past?
Yeah.
All that's out there.
I think most, I forgot the agegroup or people are getting
their news from TikTok.
Yes.
Okay.
So you can say, oh, that'shorrible.
That's it.
When I was a kid, I read, no onecares what it was like.
It is what it is.
So how do you sit in that worldof sharing that?
Our marketing team was reallyfocused on making sure that we
(34:54):
are relevant and available.
And I'll tell you, all thosepeople who said print is dead.
Print is still killing it, butyou've got to be focused.
You can't be time magazinebecause you're getting time
magazine every day on yourphone.
Yes.
Generalist will not work anymorein print.
Specialists will.
And I think that's across theboard too, even like with the
(35:16):
way with digital and it's justreally knowing your domain.
And being that thought leaderthat entrusted the go to, and I
think that's becoming more andmore important because you
really need to, and I don't liketo use the word own your
audience.
You don't own an audience.
You engage an audience.
They come to you because theytrust you, but you want them
coming back over and overbecause of these investments
(35:39):
you've made and being anauthoritative voice.
I think that the thing that I'vealways been fortunate is I never
operate out of fear.
I always operate out ofopportunity.
And so when people are like, Ohmy God, yeah.
I think it's great.
Yeah.
I don't know where it's going totake us.
Jamie Dimon was just on TVsaying that within so many
years, people will be working athree and a half day work week
because the AI will be, but in apositive way.
(36:01):
So then all of a sudden youstart to say everything that we
talk about, the direconsequences of population
decline is all based on theassumption that you have to have
so many workers in the market todo this.
We're having population decline.
We're seeing that now in China.
We're seeing it in all thesedifferent places, right?
So AI starts to become that playthat says, maybe it's not as
bad.
(36:21):
You know that, okay, just on aside note, it's like either
we're too many people on theplanet or we're full.
Exactly.
Now it's become, oh my god,we're not going to have enough.
We're not going to have enough.
Because growth is always basedon population.
But I will say then the answerto the question is the biggest
challenge or a threat to theindustry is fear any industry
Yeah, any industry operating ina fear which is why I hate
(36:44):
politics today because politicsand today has become a zero sum
game Of who can run to thelowest common denominator of
fear scare tactics Absolutely.
And negativity.
And negativity.
And I think that I will go backto it every single time, it
doesn't work.
No.
It'll work in the short term.
You'll see it work in the shortterm, but it'll always wind up
(37:06):
boomeranging back.
I'm hoping we're at thatboomerang point.
I think people have to be,because I think they're tired.
They're exhausted by it.
They're tired of everyoneyelling at each other, they're
tired of everyone exaggeratingwhat everyone's doing.
This is not a political point oneither side.
It's just simply, people areexhausted.
By not focusing on stuff that isreally important to take care
(37:26):
of.
And I, yeah, we should haveanother podcast about this.
Yeah, about politics.
But, I almost feel like,alright, you already answered
this, but answer it again.
We're going to do some rapidfire questions.
Best business book?
I will always say Good to Great.
To this day, in fact, Pivot,Transform Pivot, Disrupt,
Transform has a lot of theprinciples from Good to Great.
Okay, and Jim Collins is the?
(37:47):
Jim Collins, yeah.
He was a speaker at a few of ourevents.
Yeah.
Best book that you've read forpleasure lately?
Oh boy.
I actually just finished readinga book and it's just because
it's on top of my mind.
I think it's called The Man WhoHarness gravity or the man it
was about this Not very wellknown Scientist and in the 50s
40s 50s 60s who started doingthese experiments supposedly
(38:10):
with gravity and how it wascovered off It's what just a
fascinating understanding ofscience and the Cold War and
everything happening Not thebest book ever read.
It's funny because last night mywife and I were talking about
Tom Wolfe's Men in Full, whichis now on Netflix.
I just saw that.
Oh, the book is ten times betterOkay, the series is good But I
will tell, I told my son, readhim, read a man in full because
(38:32):
Tom Wolfe, there's just not alot of amazing writers.
No, I got to read that becauseI, we just, I was like, Oh,
let's watch it.
But it was fascinating.
It really was like, wow, thecloud Atlas.
So I know that you only askedfor one, but A Cloud Atlas is
another incredible book that Ilove.
But yeah.
All right.
We got my list.
All right.
I already know the answer tothis because, but coffee or tea?
(38:53):
Oh my God.
I'm a Starbucks.
My joke in my career is I nevernot have a Starbucks cup.
Can you tell everyone how muchcoffee we're talking about?
I do two of these every morning.
I do two five shot Americanos.
Wow.
All right.
I'm going to try one of them oneof these days and I'll see how I
sleep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
I sleep great.
Oh my gosh, you're the caffeineman.
(39:14):
One song you always have to singalong to?
Born to Run, Bruce Springsteen.
Oh, you're a Bruce fan?
Oh, absolutely.
I'm a Jersey girl.
There you go.
Couldn't get into him.
No, how can you not like Bruce?
Are you a Bon Jovi girl?
I prefer Bon Jovi over them, butI have to say I'm neither.
I was like the disco queen.
Oh, okay.
So I strive to be whatever youneed me to be.
You're a Bee Gees.
Yeah, Bee Gees was like thefirst one.
(39:35):
I had their first album.
Alright, fair.
Love that they're geniuses.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Favorite sport?
I have to say lacrosse becausemy son is at Penn State just
graduating, but he's played allfour years.
You love lacrosse?
Yeah, it's been a, but I do lovefootball.
Okay.
Yeah.
And then the last question isthe weirdest place you've ever
traveled to and why?
(39:56):
I've been, so I think the, Idon't know if we'd call it the
weirdest, but it is a placecalled Jeju Island off the coast
of South Korea.
It's like their resort area.
And it, they don't see a lot ofWestern tourists there, it's
growing now, obviously.
But, so there was thisfascination with blue eyed
blonde hair, I had hair at thetime, or some, right?
(40:17):
And it was also where you'veheard stories about the lady
divers.
And these women, when it wasthis really incredible culture
that started, the men are likeuseless and drunkards, and I'm
not making this up.
And the lady divers are outthere every morning and they're
able to dive.
Down to incredibly deep levelswithout any gear and stuff.
And they pull up these seaurchins and everything and uni
(40:40):
and all this and being able tomeet them and then with an
interpreter, talk to them.
And it was just this incredibleenvironment.
It wasn't overdeveloped or superdeveloped yet.
Cause you go in and even toBeijing or other places, it
still feels like you're insomewhere in America.
It's become that common, right?
There was like that uniquedifferent type of thing and it
was just I love Asia.
(41:02):
I have to go I have to go backto Asia.
I only went I've been once I wasin I went to Thailand and then
actually went to Cambodia toAngkor Wat, which was a is that
amazing?
It was one of I would say it wasa life altering trip Actually,
it was just there was so muchintensity about everything you
were experiencing and the peopleand They're actually incredibly
(41:22):
humble people with an incredibleamount of dignity.
They don't beg at all, eventhough they need, they asked to
work for you.
It's I just got goosebumps.
I felt the ties are the same wayto me They're just such an
incredibly, you know kind aspeople and we just there's like
an aura there and there is yeahThere's a grace.
Yeah a total grace and thenmalaysia to this island in the
(41:45):
malaysia.
Yeah I can't start with thepier.
Anyway, the king goes there andso Yeah, i've been to kuala
lumpur.
Look I could talk about that.
I love traveling but now Can'tstand it.
Really?
It's just, I feel like it'sbecome so, the world is really
small.
Yeah.
We always talk about the worldis flat.
I think Thomas Friedman.
It's like everywhere you go,it's just become so crowded.
(42:08):
Yeah.
And so overwrought.
I don't know.
No, I agree with you.
I'm just getting old.
No, I think that a lot of theEven New York.
I love a New Yorker.
Yeah.
At heart.
Yeah.
We had an apartment, my lastrole in the Upper East Side.
Yeah.
It's just so busy.
It is exhausting.
And I love it there.
I hate to say it, but I thinkthis might be age.
(42:28):
It's age.
It's age.
I'm old.
I'm calm and peace.
I'm old.
I get it.
I know.
It's okay.
My nieces live in New York.
They're like, what do you meanyou can't stand coming here?
My son too, yeah.
Oh my god, it's too crazy.
Yeah, there's just too muchgoing on.
All right.
You're allowed.
All right.
Thank you so much.
for having me.
I look forward to working withyou more in the future.
Absolutely.
We're really excited abouteverything you're doing and your
(42:50):
very exciting future.
So thank you everyone forjoining us.
And again, don't forget to checkout the show notes for the link
to sign up to receive firstnotification when we launch our
exciting new peer network andevent series.
Thanks so much.
Heather Holst-Knudsen (43:03):
You can find us@2klabs.com.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to TheRevenue Room by H2K Labs.
Subscribe to our channel today.
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