April 26, 2024 • 42 mins
Get ready to unravel the intricacies of care coordination with the keen insights of Matt Miller from Connections Health Solutions. Join BP2 Health with your hosts—Justin Politi, Dave Pavlik and Ellen Brown as we share hearty laughs, neighborhood tales and lay out the facts. On this episode we will dive into the behavioral health crisis management model where strategy meets development as well as a random rendition of “Walk on the Ocean by Toad the Wet Sprocket.
Some of the key themes we cover include:
- Expansion of crisis care legislation from only 6 states to over 30 in the past 18 months
- A recent PBS segment that featured AZ system for handling crisis including the industry leading Connections Health Solutions model where Matt leads Growth and Development
- SAMHSA 988 suicide and crisis line successes & opportunities
- Understanding that in a crisis there three key items -someone to call, someone to respond and a place to go without judgement, stigma or fear
- The phenomenon on boarding in the ER and the need to eliminate it
- How to integrate with first responders as a mental health facility
- Beyond mental health - the need for improved care coordination overall with the focus on the consumer
- Meeting people where they are
- The goal of making healthcare better for the consumer no matter the socioeconomic status of the person
- Matt’s desire to leave a legacy or working to remove the stigma surrounding behavioral health
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ellen (00:03):
Welcome to the Reverse Mullet Healthcare Podcast from
BP2 Health.
Today we are talking with MattMiller, chief Growth and
Development Officer forConnections Health Solutions,
about the importance of carecoordination across the
healthcare system.
But first, why are we here andwho are we?
And why did we name our showthe Reverse Mullet Healthcare
(00:26):
Podcast?
Dave (00:27):
Well, because we want to be relevant and informative, but
we also want to be entertainingand have fun.
So it's like party in the frontand business in the back.
Ellen (00:36):
Yes, I have to do the hands.
Justin (00:39):
So like a mullet, only reversed.
Yeah, right, exactly.
Dave (00:42):
We are your hosts.
Dave Pavlik, justin Politti.
Ellen (00:45):
Ellen Brown.
Dave (00:46):
We are passionate, innovative and collaborative and
are committed to solving ourindustry's most important issues
together with our clients.
We have a combined 90 yearsexperience.
Ellen (00:56):
And that doesn't even include Matt.
I think we'll be well over thecentury mark, yeah, which makes
us sound really old.
Dave (01:03):
In each episode we will dig into a hot healthcare topic
and dig into each other a littlebit.
Be gentle on me.
Ellen (01:09):
No, ever Nope.
I'm the only one that you haveto be gentle with, you know.
Dave (01:12):
Matt.
Well enough, we could dig intohim some too.
Ellen (01:15):
So, without further ado, wait is there like a sound
effect for this?
Justin's so excited.
Justin (01:29):
Yeah, like you got to tee yourself up on this.
Ellen (01:30):
Okay, all right here's Justin, here's Johnny.
No, uh, I am super excited um.
Justin (01:32):
Are you really?
You had your favorite guestthen topic uh, the last go
around yes, I did right, and youwere walking about food, you
were walking on air and now Iget to have mine today.
Super excited to have Matt here, but I guess one of the things
we always have banter to startright.
Yes we do One of the things thatI was thinking about as I was
(01:53):
preparing for the episode waspart of me wishes I could go
back in time and go to theneighborhood that Matt's that
currently lives in right,because I know I'd be that
neighbor, you would.
I'd be at your house, I'd bewatching football games, we'd be
(02:16):
doing barbecue challenges andwe might even invite you if you
were around, do you?
Dave (02:20):
have a man crush.
He totally has like this islike his bestie that he wishes
he.
Ellen (02:23):
Yeah.
You might invite me too.
I might invite you were around.
Do you have a man crush?
He totally has.
Like.
This is like his bestie that hewishes he yeah.
Justin (02:27):
You might invite me too.
I might invite you maybe.
Maybe, Ellen would be invited,but you know that she would.
She'd go home by 5 o'clock.
Ellen (02:36):
Ready for bed.
Justin (02:37):
Get ready for bed.
Ellen (02:38):
Yeah, definitely.
Maybe I'd stay till like 7.
Justin (02:43):
Maybe Right.
Ellen (02:46):
So yes, matt, you are clearly a favorite.
Like we, all have our favorites, and there you go Well, it's a
pleasure to be here.
Matt (02:53):
It's an honor, justin.
Justin (02:55):
Yes super happy.
Dave (02:57):
As you can see, I'm glowing.
Keep a lookout for homes forsale.
Ellen (03:02):
Yeah, keep him posted.
Justin (03:04):
But a little background on Matt.
He leads the strategy, theorganization's business
development and growth strategy.
And prior to joiningConnections and where I first
worked or where I first met Matt, he served as senior VP of
behavioral health at MagellanHealthcare, where he led the
company's behavioral healthbusiness line.
He has more than 25 years ofexperience in the healthcare
(03:26):
industry, focusing on strategicplanning and growth operations,
business development andprovider delivery system
transformation.
While at Magellan, matt servedin progressive leadership roles
in operations and networkmanagement, provider relations
and business development,including director of business
development for Magellan'spublic sector business unit.
(03:47):
Vice president, public sectorprovider network, where his
focus was on Medicaid and publicsector delivery systems.
National vice president,behavioral health network
management and operations forboth public sector and
commercial network management.
Vp of operations for Magellan'spublic sector programs and
senior VP public sector.
(04:08):
Impressive career Growingsweeter each season as you
slowly grow old.
What Do you get?
Matt (04:20):
Walk on the ocean?
Yes, See.
Dave (04:22):
Whoa Toad the wet's market .
Toad the wet's market.
Yeah, can either of you singthat?
Walk on the Ocean?
Yes, see, whoa Toad the Wet'sMarket, toad the.
Ellen (04:25):
Wet's Market.
Yeah, Can either of you singthat?
Dave (04:27):
Walk on the ocean.
Oh yeah, step on the ocean.
Justin (04:32):
I had to layer in a 90s song.
I didn't get this one.
I always did that.
You even said did someone get?
Ellen (04:37):
yeah, went right over.
So much goes right over my head.
I'm always focused on, like theyeah, Well welcome Matt.
Dave (04:43):
As you know, we always like to start with a little
party in the front, soapparently you have a super
competitive neighborhood, that-.
Ellen (04:51):
Justin wants to live in that.
Dave (04:51):
Justin wants to live in.
Ellen (04:53):
Yes, which is a little, I think you might be.
It might be a little creepy now, I don't know.
I think maybe we've crossed theline.
Dave (04:59):
Stalking much, yeah, when it comes to Halloween costumes,
the annual Halloween costumecontest.
Justin (05:06):
your motto is go big or go home.
Dave (05:11):
Can you tell us a little bit about this contest and the
costumes you've sported?
Matt (05:15):
Sure can Well.
First, I guess.
Thank you for having me.
This is great andcongratulations on the podcast.
Ellen (05:20):
Thank you, it's fantastic .
Matt (05:21):
Thank you, big fan.
First-time or long-timelistener.
First-time attendee Yay, thankyou for it's fantastic.
Thank you, big fan.
First time or long-timelistener.
First time attendance.
Ellen (05:26):
Yay, I appreciate it.
Thank you for coming.
Matt (05:27):
Yeah, so Halloween.
Yeah, so we have theneighborhood that Justin is
going to move into.
Justin (05:34):
He'll probably be at the party this year.
Matt (05:37):
Great neighborhood, have fantastic neighbors and friends,
and a neighbor down the streethas a big Halloween bash and the
first year we were newneighbors and didn't really know
what to expect and we kind ofshowed up ho-hum costume-wise
and realized that we had to upour game.
Dave (05:55):
So were you Forrest and Jenny?
No, that was this last year.
Hanson Brothers.
Matt (05:59):
That's been done.
That's been done.
But the first year we reallygot into it three of my good
friends in the neighborhood.
We came as Kiss full costume.
Dave (06:09):
Oh, outstanding Outstanding.
Matt (06:11):
And we brought the show down and we just had to up our
game every year.
So sometimes we do it as agroup, sometimes as couples and,
as you said, this last year wasForrest and Jenny with my wife
and I, so we had a blast withthat as well, we got to get a
picture of that yeah.
Ellen (06:26):
Yeah but wasn't there like some really epic middle?
I thought you told us a storyabout like showing up at the
like.
Right, am I missing this so?
Matt (06:38):
before going to the party we were at a pre-party.
Ellen (06:41):
Okay, so this is really a thing.
This is a thing.
There's a pre-gaming for aHalloween party.
Matt (06:46):
This is a thing and my neighbor friend had a riding
lawnmower and we thought it wasa great idea if I make an
entrance to this party on ariding lawnmower in full Forrest
Gump attire and you know it wasa good one.
Justin (06:59):
That is.
It would be tough to one-upthat that is outstanding.
It's like Forrest Gump mixedwith Can't Buy Me Love.
Ellen (07:06):
It's always something with you.
You've always got the sayings,so all right.
So we also learned that you andyour family love the beach,
that you're big beachenthusiasts, and so you know,
justin lives on the west coastof Florida and I live on the
east coast of Florida, and so wesort of have this running
(07:26):
debate.
I think my water is betterbecause we get that Caribbean.
We're the closest beach to theGulf Stream, so we get that blue
Caribbean water.
He's rolling his eyes at me,but we don't get red tide over
there like you do.
Justin (07:40):
No, you don't, that is right so.
Ellen (07:41):
I'm just saying there's a difference in okay.
Justin (07:44):
But the clarity of the water and the beach sand in
Siesta Key is second to none.
Ellen (07:49):
The clarity is on par.
The clarity is on par.
It is you got to come over.
Justin (07:53):
We got to get together more.
There's going to be a throwdown.
Ellen (07:55):
There is so, but anyways, so clearly we're all vitamin D
worshipers, because I understand.
So what are your favoritebeaches?
And I think there's continentaland then outside of the
continental US.
So curious.
Matt (08:07):
Well, so I grew up in Minnesota.
I'm not sure you guys knew that, but I grew up in Minnesota, so
completely landlocked.
Ellen (08:12):
Near a lake or Not.
Near a lake, no.
Matt (08:14):
Spent a lot of time on the lakes but had good fortune of
being able to go to Mexico,riviera Maya, a lot as a kid
with parents and just kind offell in love with beach life.
And after we moved to the EastCoast, after I moved to the East
Coast and we had kids, we soquick story we went on a Disney
cruise and we combined a Disneycruise with Disney itself and
(08:37):
this first time we took the kidsto Disney.
And after we got done with thevacation we said to the kids
would you rather go to the beach, because we stopped at a beach
on the cruise, or would yourather go to Disney?
Ellen (08:48):
Did you go to Castaway Cay we?
Matt (08:49):
did yeah, and they said we'd much rather go to the beach
.
So that was music to my ears.
I never have to go back toDisney again, at least not with
children.
Ellen (08:58):
I'm happy to go back now.
Matt (08:59):
But yeah, we've been beach people ever since.
We've been beach people eversince my wife's from the East
Coast.
We spend a week with some ofthose same neighbors at a little
slice of heaven called Don'ttell him where, don't tell him
where He'll be there.
Ellen (09:10):
Sorry, just warning you.
No, I'm just kidding.
Matt (09:13):
South of Virginia Beach, Sandbridge Island.
Ellen (09:15):
Sandbridge.
Dave (09:15):
Yeah.
Matt (09:16):
Sandbridge Yep, we've talked about Sandbridge.
So yeah, we spend a week Atleast once a year.
We try to get to the Caribbeansomewhere.
So love the Caribbean Jamaica,riviera Maya yeah, so the beach
is good.
Ellen (09:28):
So I'm just going to throw out for you.
So we, these guys know, and youknow from last summer when we
were working together I love totravel and I will tell you
Corsica and Sardinia islandsthat you should seriously
consider if you like the beach.
And the cool thing is Corsicais French, sardinia is Italian,
(09:54):
so you get to and both of themhave like you feel like you're
in a French country or on aFrench island, you feel like
you're on Italian island and youcan take a ferry between the
two and it is very cool, and somy description of them is it's
like being in Tuscany with theCaribbean, without the crowds.
Now don't go in August, butlike June, july, it's phenomenal
(10:18):
.
Matt (10:18):
Okay, I'll get those names for you.
Put them on the list.
Ellen (10:20):
I will, I will so anyways .
Dave (10:22):
Do you have to speak with a French accent?
No, they'll do that.
Stop now.
Ellen (10:26):
Please stop Okay.
Matt (10:33):
Yeah, it sounds like Pepe it out, no we don't need to edit
it out.
Ellen (10:35):
That's what makes this show fun.
Some people say All right.
Dave (10:40):
I guess we have to do that sound effect?
Ellen (10:42):
Which one?
Justin (10:43):
This one, yeah, it does remind me of the Muppet Show.
Ellen (10:49):
It's a little bit between the peanuts and the Muppet Show
, because we're sadlytransitioning from the party in
the front to the business in theback.
Justin (10:54):
Yeah, All right, so let's jump into our topic for
today, which is really going tofocus around the need for
improved care coordination andcare management.
But before we delve into thatin particular, I really want to
talk about where you'recurrently at with Connections
Health Solutions.
You're currently at withConnections Health Solutions and
(11:18):
, for our listeners who haven'theard of Connections, the model
they provide is 24-7 mentalhealth crisis care, with no
exceptions and no judgment.
At each of their centers, theyhave resources and teams that
provide personalized treatmentand care for people with urgent
and immediate mental healthneeds.
Now, matt, can you give us alittle bit of a background on
Connections, the model of careitself and how you're working to
(11:40):
help divert unnecessaryutilization from emergency rooms
and inpatient settings toConnections facilities?
Yeah, absolutely, and thank you.
Matt (11:50):
So you went through a long history that I had on the payer
side 22 years.
You make me feel really old, sothank you.
You know, and we did a lot ofgreat things there on the payer
side, especially work that wedid in the public sector,
medicaid business, and after,you know, getting a long career
there, I wanted to think aboutwhat, what's next and be able to
have more of a direct impactinto the work that I was doing
(12:11):
in the company that you know towork for was doing, and so came
across Connections, whichinterestingly I knew of
Connections, but by another name.
So Dr Chris Carson and Dr RobertWilliamson founded Connections.
They were the co-founders, andactually the model of care which
has come to be known as the23-hour observation model of
(12:31):
care was kind of created out ofnecessity by Dr Carson when he
was actually in Texas in the 90s.
And let me know if you've heardthis story.
But someone boarding in the ERfor a really long time no
inpatient bed available to go,sits in the ER for two to three
days, finally gets transferredand really doesn't get treatment
(12:51):
until that fourth day.
So that was a problem in Texasin the late 90s.
That's still the problem weTexas in the late 90s.
That's still the problem we'rehaving today throughout the
country.
Dave (12:59):
When I was on the payer side.
Matt (13:01):
This was actually something that I was trying to
do in any community, any statethat I was doing business in,
and it was a level of care, ifyou will, that just didn't exist
and it still doesn't exist in alot of communities.
So it was comfortable to me andI knew that there was some
tailwinds in the space from aregulatory perspective, from a
(13:22):
licensure perspective, to reallyjump into this and help to grow
and expand the model.
So we are, as you said, 24-7behavioral health, mental health
or substance abuse, anyone atany time, regardless of
demographic, regardless ofinsurance.
It effectively serves as analternative to the ER, an
alternative to long-terminpatient hospitalization and,
(13:44):
in some cases, alternative tojail and detention.
So yeah, that's the history ofthe organization and we'll get
into a little bit some of theexpansion as we move forward.
Dave (13:53):
Super interesting background and model there.
With the overwhelming volume ofmental health crisis cases
nationally, you must be gettingapproached by every state, I
would imagine right, or federalagencies right, to bring your
model into you know it'sinteresting, no one's ever said
(14:15):
this was a bad idea.
Matt (14:16):
you know, in my time there , and even beforehand.
So I started a little over twoyears ago and at that time there
was six states that hadregulation or legislation
related to crisis care to thetype of model that we have today
.
There's more than 30 statesthat are in the process of
changing regulation orlegislation to allow for this
(14:39):
type of model.
Ellen (14:41):
And what period of time has it shifted to be 30 states?
Matt (14:46):
In the last 18 months.
Wow, yeah, that's crazy, that'samazing.
Pretty significant Catching on,fast Catching on fast, so you
certainly saw some tailwinds.
Definitely some tailwinds.
There's a lot of tailwindscoming out of COVID.
I mean, if there's anythinggood that came out of COVID
other than ripping the bandageoff of telehealth, it's a
heightened emphasis on mentalhealth and on behavioral health.
(15:07):
So yeah, states are looking atthis, local municipalities are
looking at this, counties arelooking at this really.
Counties are looking at thisreally collectively to solve the
same issue and thus providemore access, better care and
better outcomes than what thealternatives are today.
Ellen (15:24):
Very cool.
So recently PBS did a segmenton the Arizona system for
handling crisis care 988availability which I also want
you to give us a little bitabout this 988 availability and
the unique approach the statetakes and highlighted the role
that connections is at play here.
And we'll provide Dave I feellike we say this and then we
(15:48):
have to figure this out is wewill provide a link to that PBS
segment to our listeners in theshow?
Dave (15:54):
notes yeah, absolutely, I just watched it.
Ellen (15:56):
It's really well done, it is actually, but you know
Arizona feels like it's muchfurther ahead from other states.
Can you share why you thinkthat's the case and just give us
a little bit more background onthat?
Matt (16:06):
Yeah, I mean, arizona definitely has been ahead of
other states when it comes tocrisis care and I think what
they did originally was blendfunding blended SAMHSA, block
grant dollars, blended Medicaiddollars, non-medicaid dollars,
county-based dollars to ensurethat the uninsured were cared
for, and there was a path tothat to make programs
sustainable.
I think, like you said, thatPBS piece just came out, I think
(16:29):
last week, and it talks aboutsome of the really good things
that are available in theArizona system in the crisis
system and areas for need forcontinued improvement.
It's evolved over time.
Crisis services have evolved,expanded, moving, you know, past
that, beyond the 23-hourobservation model and into
crisis stabilization.
As it relates to, you know,samhsa 988 is where we're almost
(16:55):
18 months into 988.
Maybe not that far, but it'sdefinitely a year anniversary of
988 launching.
If you don't know what 988 is,please research it.
Everyone should know what thenational hotline for suicide
prevention is.
Dave (17:10):
It's like 911, but I don't remember the stats exactly.
But in that documentary theytalked about there was
previously, right, an 800 numberor toll-free number at National
Suicide Law and the number ofincoming calls increased by huge
amounts when it went to 988.
(17:31):
So just simply changing from an800 toll-free to a 988.
Justin (17:35):
I don't remember the numbers, but it was staggering.
The stats were amazing.
Even with it, I still feel likepeople don't know.
Matt (17:40):
No, I totally agree it hasn't been rolled out
consistently across the country.
There are states and countiesthat have had a dedicated crisis
call center in the past,quickly adopted 988.
But there are still somechallenges that I know SAMHSA is
actively working through andothers are working through to
make sure that the you know it'srolled out, that there is no
(18:00):
confusion, like when you'recalling from a cell phone number
that has a prefix of Nevada andyou're actually in California,
that they know that you're inCalifornia, not Nevada.
So they're working through someof those details and I think
you know there was a plannedrollout of 988, and SANS has
done a fantastic job with thatand they're also it's part of
(18:23):
the kind of this three-leggedstool around crisis.
So someone to call 988, someoneto respond, which would be
mobile crisis, and thensomeplace to go and that's where
organizations like Connectionscome in is someplace to go
without judgment, without stigma, without having to go to an ER,
without fear of going, you know, being detained and ending up
in jail because of a mentalhealth or behavioral health
(18:44):
issue.
Justin (18:45):
Can you explain how you work with the or how Connections
works with first responders ineach community?
Matt (18:51):
Yeah, very, very closely.
You know we consider them a keyconstituent very, very closely.
You know we consider them a keyconstituent and I say that
specifically.
We have a large percentage ofpeople that are transported to
our facilities via lawenforcement or other first
responders.
And I say transport becausethey're not in custody.
Sometimes they're in custodyfor their own safety, but when
they're coming into our facilitywe have peer supports that will
(19:13):
meet law enforcement at a backdoor and take the cuffs off an
individual that they know thatthey're entering into a
treatment environment, not a lawenforcement environment.
So working collaboratively withfirst responders and it kind of
changed the culture of how lawenforcement responds to
behavioral health emergencies isreally important to the work
that we're doing in Arizona andelsewhere.
Justin (19:35):
So I'm going to have you step away from connections for
just a second and we're going togo a little bit more personal
level about what you think isneeded to affect real change
within the marketplace and thehealth care system as a whole.
Can you give your thoughts andopinion on that?
Matt (19:54):
Yeah, you know, as we all have been here in health care
for a really long time, youthink you've got it figured out
as we all laugh, right?
I know, right Wait.
Dave (20:08):
There, it is there, you go , you got it right.
Matt (20:10):
And you know there's so much that you know can be done
better in healthcare.
There's so much that can bedone better in health care and I
think recent experiences, youthink about that kind of first
and foremost so carecoordination, especially with an
(20:30):
aging population.
Systems don't talk to eachother, health systems don't talk
to each other, it systems don'ttalk to each other.
It systems don't talk to eachother.
It's tough, especially in largerural parts of the country
where healthcare does ithealthcare shortages and just
coordinating care generally fora consumer who's dealing with
the healthcare, especiallybehavioral health.
It's tough to coordinate careon behavioral health but
(20:52):
coordinating care generally Justto you know, to have a better
system, a better solution inplace for that to help the
consumer navigate the healthcareexperience better.
I mean, healthcare is for theconsumer, right, I mean, and
sometimes I think we forgetabout that and what it's really
for.
If we need to put the focus onthe consumer, we're going to get
(21:13):
better health outcomes.
Ellen (21:14):
But I love.
So you know we had the pleasureof working with you and really
got to dive into I reallyenjoyed learning not only the
model but the value propositionof the model.
And when you talk about carecoordination, we think about
(21:34):
primary care and how itintegrates in with specialty
care and then acute care andbehavioral sort of.
Is this ancillary?
And what we realized and Ithink, like you said, covid
really hit home that behavioralis part of it all.
It's not an ancillary.
It shouldn't be stuck in acorner over there, which is what
(21:56):
we have effectively done and Ijust loved how the model that
you represent, that you'rebuilding and putting in
different parts of the country,is.
It addresses behavioral at thatcare coordination level and it
meets people where they are,because so many times things can
(22:18):
be de-escalated really quicklyjust by somebody getting the
right medication or just havingsomeone to talk to.
And so the idea of having aphysical location where somebody
can come and just sit and andbe heard, like you, without
judgment, and that there aredifferent levels of care, just
(22:39):
for a behavioral health issueright Versus you come in, like
you said, and I don't thinkpeople really I certainly didn't
understand the need for carecoordination at a behavioral
health level.
On its own right, it's stillintegrated in.
And so I just, when we talkabout care coordination I know
(23:00):
we're going to talk aboutbroader care coordination, but I
just I think it's really coolthat you get to work in taking a
model that was working inArizona and now bringing it to
other parts of the country tosay, look, behavioral health is
a huge problem for our country,it's a huge challenge for health
care.
(23:20):
You know, like Justin joked, Igot my food discussion.
He is super passionate, as youknow.
That's how you all met aboutbehavioral health and I just I
think it's really remarkable andyeah, so, yeah, you know the
behavioral health.
Matt (23:39):
I would put it in a different term Behavioral health
is a huge opportunity for thecountry, right, yep, it is a
problem that we haven't gottenit right yet, and I think that's
the opportunity that's in frontof us.
You know your point around thecare coordination aspect.
Someone comes into a facility,a crisis facility and the goal
is to stabilize and return yourpoint around the care
coordination aspect someonecomes into a facility, a crisis
(23:59):
facility and the goal is tostabilize and return, get that
individual back to the communityas quickly as possible, and
that could just be an urgentcare visit because there are
meds and they are not able tosee their psychiatrist to get a
refill.
It could mean a 23-hour you knowless than 23-hour stay just to
stabilize what's going on andreally talking about not what
the problem is, but whathappened, that you got here and
(24:20):
we're glad that you're here buthow can we help address social,
determinative health issues,other issues that you know cause
the crisis or whatever is goingon, and address that head on
and then do the follow-up aswell?
You know we view ourselves aspart of a system.
We can't exist in a silo and wehave to work with all other
organizations and providers inthe system, and I think that's
(24:41):
something that we do really welland we need to do really well
as we expand into new markets,on really helping to use our
position to help coordinate thesystem in a better way so that
it's more accountable to theconsumers who are utilizing it.
Ellen (24:56):
And I'll put a plug to all the payers, all the people
on the payer side.
We talked in the episodeprevious to this about the sides
that shouldn't really exist,right?
Justin (25:07):
But joking aside, Star Wars type of analogies that are
used.
Ellen (25:11):
Yeah, it's like we could bring the lightsaber.
I wish we had that sound effectright Like that buzz noise.
That's like a cool, very like.
Dave (25:19):
Seems to me that there should be a connections facility
in every community.
Justin (25:26):
Doesn't it feel like that?
Dave (25:27):
Well, I heard this.
You know Matt's conversationabout the borders in the
emergency room.
I know that happens in ourlocal hospital all the time.
Ellen (25:37):
Well, your wife works there, Right.
Dave (25:39):
And there's borders.
They're literally on a gurneyin the hallway.
They're not getting anytreatment, they're not getting
any quick care coordination.
It feels third world, doesn'tit?
Yeah, absolutely, but so I'mnot an expert in this topic like
you are.
But you often say, justin, thatit used to be back in the day
(26:00):
that we had this, so why did itgo away?
Justin (26:03):
That's a good question.
We didn't invest in thosecommunities where these
locations were.
It became easier to push theseindividuals into the emergency
room and it's unfortunate thatwe didn't invest in those things
.
But I'm interested in Matt'sopinion on the dynamic.
Ellen (26:21):
So wait, because I lost my train of thought on the
lightsaber.
Dave (26:24):
Oh, I'm so sorry.
Ellen (26:25):
It's okay.
You were right to take over theconversation because I had gone
down a bad rabbit hole, butwhere I was going to Now you're
taking it back.
I am, and then I do want to goback to the question you posed,
but if we can remember, it isvalue-based care is, I feel,
like the opportunity.
When we talk aboutopportunities, it is the
opportunity to recognize thismodel of care delivery for
(26:51):
behavioral health as part ofcare coordination at large, and
I think that is one of theplaces that we have gone wrong.
And I'll pose this.
Working with you all reallyopened my eyes to the fact that
we're big proponents, as youknow, of value-based care.
That is something that I'msuper passionate about.
(27:12):
It's a legacy item for me inwhat I'm doing, and so I really
was blind to the fact thatvalue-based care largely ignored
things like behavioral healthright, and like we've talked
about before, we've We've carvedthose things out and now we've
kind of given the money away andwe need to figure out how to
(27:34):
bring the money back together,which is right.
So my point was I was trying toplug the payers to say these
models need to be recognized invalue-based care for the
inherent value that they bringbeyond just the incidents, the
services that come in your door.
Matt (27:53):
That's an excellent point.
I think payers get it.
I think conceptually they getit.
I'm a recovering payer.
I think the industry gets it,but there has to be more of an
emphasis on it.
You can think about it frommany different aspects, but if
(28:14):
you think about it just from atop line dollar aspect of an
episode of someone in atraditional model, as we think
about traditional, you're reallynot having a good day.
Ellen (28:26):
So walk us through that, because I do actually think it's
a good education.
We've kind of hit on it on theperiphery here, but walk us
through what the alternative toconnections is for the
healthcare system, because thereare a lot of people that listen
to this that don't have thatbackground.
Matt (28:40):
Yeah, I mean, someone is suicidal, homicidal, really not
feeling.
Well, something's going on andthey make the appropriate right
call and say or hopefullythey're calling 988 now, but
previously they're just goingdirectly to the er, where else
are you gonna?
Where else to go, right?
Ellen (28:56):
or they're brought right or they you know they call 9-1-1
.
Matt (29:00):
Law enforcement comes out and law enforcement is bringing
them to the er, bringing themsomeplace or the family or
something, yeah so you you know.
I don't know off the top of myhead what the average boarding
time, and it varies by, variesby community, but there's always
someone boarding for abehavioral health issue in an ER
.
Ellen (29:16):
Meaning that they're just staying Again.
I'm—.
Matt (29:18):
They're waiting for a bed to open up, they're waiting for
medical clearance.
They're waiting for something.
That's one of the things aboutour facilities.
We do medical clearance.
You don't have to go to an ERto be medically cleared, to be
admitted into one of ourfacilities, but they're waiting
for a bed to fill up.
There's a shortage of beds,there's a workforce issue right,
a shortage of beds and sothey're boarding for 8, 12, 24
(29:44):
hours, not getting activetreatment and then admitted to
an inpatient facility, probablynot getting active treatment
until day two.
So you're three days into acrisis and sitting in an ER is
not a great place for anyone butsomeone that's experienced a
behavioral health issue.
So the alternative is you cometo a crisis facility and your
point early Dave about.
You know it's happening in thehospital where your wife works.
(30:04):
It happens every day and thereare other alternatives to
large-scale programs like ours.
There are psych emergencyservices, there are other kind
of.
There's empath units thatorganizations you know largely
rural community hospitals arelooking at as an alternative to
make it a more cost-effectivealternative for those rural
(30:24):
communities.
But yeah, so the ER admissioncost of the health care insurer
inpatient admission cost of thehealth care insurer inpatient
admission cost of the healthcare insurer.
Ellen (30:36):
And it's not even the appropriate place.
And it's not the appropriateplace.
There's nobody there.
Matt (30:39):
And readmission rates aren't that great.
And that's when the carecoordination aspect comes in.
Is really what is going on?
Are we really addressing whatcaused the crisis and the
individual to come in, versuscall your PCP and follow up in
seven days, right?
So the alternative is to geteffective, immediate treatment
(31:02):
right away.
So in models like ours we're amedical model, a full complement
of medical staff that aretreating the crisis as well as
treating the psychosocial issuesas well.
We have a lot of techs, a lotof peers that support our
program.
So we're really addressing whatcause the individual would come
in and how can we help that nothappen again and you know it
(31:26):
will and we'll get you know.
We continue to work with thatindividual and work with the
outpatient provider or othercommunity supports to make sure
that they have the support thatthey need to remain in the
community so, dave, are yougoing to ask your question, one
of the questions we always askyeah, sure um maybe we can sing
yeah no, we, we always.
Ellen (31:47):
That's old enough, right, right you know that.
Dave (31:49):
You know the old commercial like to buy the world
a Coke.
Ellen (31:53):
In perfect harmony.
Matt (31:57):
I remember that commercial .
So thanks again, Justin, forwriting on my email.
Dave (32:02):
Now you've got an earworm for the rest of the day.
What would be your?
Matt (32:07):
buy the world a Coke moment For health care, for
health care, make it easier forthe consumer For healthcare, for
healthcare.
Make it easier for the consumerand you know so anything that
(32:31):
could be easier for a consumer,especially vulnerable
populations, you know, in thelens of care coordination and
care management, how can we makeit better?
You know, I think there's a lotof fear about AI and what it's
going to do to health care andwhat it's going to do to a lot
of industries, but health carein particular, and I know enough
about AI to get myself introuble when talking about it.
But this, you know, being ableto link certain health care
systems, and I recently had anexperience where you know
individuals was gettingtreatment in one health care
(32:53):
system and received outpatientservices in another healthcare
system.
Those systems didn't talk toeach other because they didn't
have the same medical managementplatform, the EMR, and they
just didn't talk to each othergenerally and that just puts a
patient in a bad situation ofreally trying to navigate on
their own and I think for thoseof us just personally been in
(33:15):
healthcare for a really longtime, you think you got to
figure it out.
Until you are in the depths ofactually trying to figure it out
and, uh, then it becomes a lotmore eyeopening.
Ellen (33:23):
Absolutely so you need.
You made me think and this is aguest that we're going to have,
probably sooner than later, butthere's a company you should
look into into it, called LirioL-I-R-I O.
You might have heard of them,but I think they're an
interesting.
When you talk about AI and theneed for again behavioral health
(33:43):
and behavior in general, theyhave an interesting approach
that you that sort of new entreeof being dangerous and AI Like.
I think that's an interesting.
I'll be very interested to seewhere Martin and company go,
because I think it's a.
It's a great concept.
But so last question if youcould leave a legacy in
(34:05):
healthcare or feel like you madea big difference, what would it
be?
Matt (34:09):
Legacy is a big term.
Ellen (34:10):
It is, but that's why we this is why it's our passion
project, because it's like let'stalk big, real.
Matt (34:16):
I'd probably answer that maybe three ways if that's okay.
One is anything that I can do,or the company I'm working with
can do, to continue to reducestigma around behavioral health,
mental health, stigma aroundbehavioral health, mental health
.
And ultimately, if there couldbe a legacy, it would be someone
(34:37):
saying you know, the same way,I've got to go to my PT
appointment.
Right Broke my arm going PT.
I've got to go to my PTappointment Without shame.
For someone to say I need to goto my behavioral health
appointment without shame.
So, as a country, for us to beable to get there and if we can
(35:03):
influence legislation, if we caninfluence regulation, to be
able to allow for new innovativeservices.
You know, the behavioral healthdelivery system and services
hasn't really changed.
Probably the biggest change wasdeinstitutionalization and
COVID helped just from arecognition standpoint that
(35:23):
mental health is real and weneed to talk more about it.
We need to be more accepting ofit, so getting it to be more
commonplace and not as much of astigma, right?
Ellen (35:33):
Not as much as a stigma and not being afraid to talk
about it, so getting it to bemore commonplace.
And not as much of a stigma,right?
Matt (35:34):
Not as much as a stigma and not being afraid to talk
about it and having it be.
You know it's an illness, justlike pneumonia is an illness
right and get treatment and beable to treat it as an illness
and not as something you knowbehind closed doors.
Ellen (35:50):
I would.
Actually I will sort of throw aI don't want to say counter,
because it's I agree with you,but I think this gets into just
health in general.
We talk about our physicalhealth and the need to put
energy towards it right what weeat, how we move our bodies, our
(36:11):
sleep, and I think our mentalhealth is just as imperative.
And I think if, as a society,we talked more about how to keep
our mental health at the top ofits game, it would be a real
game changer for so manydifferent layers.
I mean, it would remove stigma,it would allow us to be much
(36:34):
more proactive, it would allowus to be honest with each other
of you know, I'm just notfeeling it today.
Right, I'm a little cranky, I'mwhatever and right, and like
today, whenever I got off theplane and.
I was snippy.
I don't know why, but well,well, I didn't get enough sleep.
She yelled at me, but you getwhat I'm saying, Matt.
Dave (36:53):
Like.
Ellen (36:53):
I think there's such an opportunity of.
I mean, I hope we have a lotmore around behavioral health
and mental health on our podcast, Because as much as I love food
and could talk about healthlike that, I think the
behavioral aspect and mentalhealth in general is just
largely not discussed and notrecognized.
Matt (37:14):
And you know, the third thing I was going to mention
comes back to that, right.
So better mental health isgoing to be better overall
health, which is better to thehealthcare system, better to the
healthcare dollar, right?
There's a ton of not understoodcosts related to mental health,
right?
Whether it's workplace, whetherit's just healthcare costs
(37:37):
generally.
If we're taking care of mentalhealth, behavioral health, we're
going to take care of the restof the healthcare costs and I
think, from a legacy standpoint,there's not a lot of
value-based care in behavioralhealth very little, right.
So that's one of the thingsthat we're going to try to
change connections as wecontinue.
The work that we're doingacross the country and expanding
(37:58):
is really focusing on the valueto the consumer.
The value to address a healthcare issue that is directly
getting better outcomes for theconsumer in a much more
(38:20):
cost-conscious way is good forthe health care system.
Justin (38:23):
So I'm going to go off script real quick.
Ellen (38:25):
Because I haven't done that today.
Justin (38:27):
Where did your passion for behavioral health like the
personally?
Where did it come from?
For behavioral healthpersonally when did it come?
Matt (38:36):
from Most of my family's in health care.
My mom was a LPN and thenworked in a county-based WIC
clinic.
So I went to school, graduatedwith psychology and criminal
justice.
My eyesight was really crappyso I couldn't get into the FBI.
So I kind of landed on thedelivery system side and had
always done things from acommunity-based behavioral
(39:00):
health perspective.
So I got my start in morecommunity-based behavioral
health programs partial hospitalprograms, group home programs,
actually a crisis center Well,actually one of the first ones
in Philadelphia way back in theday and as I moved into the
managed care side I think Ididn't know what managed care
(39:23):
was.
When I moved into managed care Iwas younger in my career and
really kind of realized, gosh, Ican glean so much for this from
the administrative side and thepayer side.
To then bring that back to thedelivery system side and um, so
it's a long-winded say, a way ofsaying it's just kind of been
innate um over the career that'swhy you guys are like soul
(39:45):
brothers or something you knowyou're like like I said, I'm
showing up at your house withthe soul mates.
Ellen (39:50):
They are they're?
Justin (39:51):
they're like brothers I have to figure out my outfit.
That's my For.
Ellen (39:55):
Halloween.
Yes, you got to go big.
Justin, you are forewarned?
Yeah, he's been forewarned,yeah, yeah.
Dave (40:04):
What's Connection's footprint right now other than
Arizona, and where are you goingif you can say?
Matt (40:10):
Yeah, so we've been operating for 15 years in
Arizona, so Phoenix and Tucsonwe see about 30,000 people a
year between those two centers.
That's a lot of people comingthrough the doors.
In Arizona we're expanding toWashington State.
This summer We'll have a largefacility in Kirkland, washington
.
There's a lot of great thingsgoing on in Washington.
(40:32):
The state and the county aretaking some really proactive
steps to address behavioralhealth issues generally.
Virginia we're going to belaunching in Virginia this year.
We'll have two programs inVirginia Northern Virginia and
then Pennsylvania as well.
So Harrisburg will be our firstprogram in Pennsylvania and a
lot of tailwinds behind us and,as you said, there's just a lot
(40:54):
of people looking at this of amuch more effective and better
outcome alternative to what'shappening today or what's not
happening today.
Ellen (41:04):
Well, after talking with Dr Elliott, our guest just now,
I feel like Delaware is aperfect proving ground.
Matt (41:11):
It's on the map absolutely .
Ellen (41:13):
It sounds like it's a perfect microcosm.
Justin (41:16):
Every state.
You've got to have one in everystate.
We do need to have one in everystate.
Ellen (41:19):
Well, I'm so glad you came, Matt.
Matt (41:22):
It's a pleasure to be here .
I'm so glad I was able to come.
Ellen (41:24):
It's fun to have a friend on the podcast.
Justin (41:26):
Yes, absolutely I appreciate your time, justin
certainly
Ellen (41:29):
feels that way so sorry, I gotta give you a hard time I
can't I know I get.
Hey, it's coming back at meit's you exactly you dish it out
at me, so I so I have to havethick skin.
That's right, that's all right.
Matt (41:40):
We all should have told me this like two years ago, the
house right next to me opened up.
No, you you're glad you're glad.
Justin (41:47):
So I'm texting shan after my wife after this and I'm
like I I told no.
Ellen (41:50):
So we were joking about this, because here in town, in
Westchester, where we are, we'redriving through town to get a
coffee and Justin's like thisplace is great, I could be like
the mayor.
He literally said that I couldbe like the mayor here and I
said, yeah, but you can'tendlessly sit in the sun and go
to the beach here.
That's the problem.
So it would not be it.
So, anyways, well, thanks again.
(42:14):
I'm Ellen Brown, I'm DavePavlik and I'm Justin Politti.
We are the partners at BP2Health your best chance for real
change.
Dave (42:19):
As you can tell, we can talk about this all day long.
Drop us a line through ourwebsite, bp2healthcom.
This episode is produced byMainline Studios in Westchester
Pennsylvania.
Ellen (42:33):
Give Eric a shout, eric Pennsylvania.
Give Eric a shout, eric, yeah,give Eric a shout this has been
a guest studio for us and it hasbeen fantastic.
Dave (42:40):
Yes.
Ellen (42:41):
Yeah.
Dave (42:41):
Thanks again.
Justin (42:41):
Thanks again.
Have a great day, thank you.
Welcome to the Reverse Mullet Healthcare Podcast from
BP2 Health.
Today we are talking with MattMiller, chief Growth and
Development Officer forConnections Health Solutions,
about the importance of carecoordination across the
healthcare system.
But first, why are we here andwho are we?
And why did we name our showthe Reverse Mullet Healthcare
(00:26):
Podcast?
Dave (00:27):
Well, because we want to be relevant and informative, but
we also want to be entertainingand have fun.
So it's like party in the frontand business in the back.
Ellen (00:36):
Yes, I have to do the hands.
Justin (00:39):
So like a mullet, only reversed.
Yeah, right, exactly.
Dave (00:42):
We are your hosts.
Dave Pavlik, justin Politti.
Ellen (00:45):
Ellen Brown.
Dave (00:46):
We are passionate, innovative and collaborative and
are committed to solving ourindustry's most important issues
together with our clients.
We have a combined 90 yearsexperience.
Ellen (00:56):
And that doesn't even include Matt.
I think we'll be well over thecentury mark, yeah, which makes
us sound really old.
Dave (01:03):
In each episode we will dig into a hot healthcare topic
and dig into each other a littlebit.
Be gentle on me.
Ellen (01:09):
No, ever Nope.
I'm the only one that you haveto be gentle with, you know.
Dave (01:12):
Matt.
Well enough, we could dig intohim some too.
Ellen (01:15):
So, without further ado, wait is there like a sound
effect for this?
Justin's so excited.
Justin (01:29):
Yeah, like you got to tee yourself up on this.
Ellen (01:30):
Okay, all right here's Justin, here's Johnny.
No, uh, I am super excited um.
Justin (01:32):
Are you really?
You had your favorite guestthen topic uh, the last go
around yes, I did right, and youwere walking about food, you
were walking on air and now Iget to have mine today.
Super excited to have Matt here, but I guess one of the things
we always have banter to startright.
Yes we do One of the things thatI was thinking about as I was
(01:53):
preparing for the episode waspart of me wishes I could go
back in time and go to theneighborhood that Matt's that
currently lives in right,because I know I'd be that
neighbor, you would.
I'd be at your house, I'd bewatching football games, we'd be
(02:16):
doing barbecue challenges andwe might even invite you if you
were around, do you?
Dave (02:20):
have a man crush.
He totally has like this islike his bestie that he wishes
he.
Ellen (02:23):
Yeah.
You might invite me too.
I might invite you were around.
Do you have a man crush?
He totally has.
Like.
This is like his bestie that hewishes he yeah.
Justin (02:27):
You might invite me too.
I might invite you maybe.
Maybe, Ellen would be invited,but you know that she would.
She'd go home by 5 o'clock.
Ellen (02:36):
Ready for bed.
Justin (02:37):
Get ready for bed.
Ellen (02:38):
Yeah, definitely.
Maybe I'd stay till like 7.
Justin (02:43):
Maybe Right.
Ellen (02:46):
So yes, matt, you are clearly a favorite.
Like we, all have our favorites, and there you go Well, it's a
pleasure to be here.
Matt (02:53):
It's an honor, justin.
Justin (02:55):
Yes super happy.
Dave (02:57):
As you can see, I'm glowing.
Keep a lookout for homes forsale.
Ellen (03:02):
Yeah, keep him posted.
Justin (03:04):
But a little background on Matt.
He leads the strategy, theorganization's business
development and growth strategy.
And prior to joiningConnections and where I first
worked or where I first met Matt, he served as senior VP of
behavioral health at MagellanHealthcare, where he led the
company's behavioral healthbusiness line.
He has more than 25 years ofexperience in the healthcare
(03:26):
industry, focusing on strategicplanning and growth operations,
business development andprovider delivery system
transformation.
While at Magellan, matt servedin progressive leadership roles
in operations and networkmanagement, provider relations
and business development,including director of business
development for Magellan'spublic sector business unit.
(03:47):
Vice president, public sectorprovider network, where his
focus was on Medicaid and publicsector delivery systems.
National vice president,behavioral health network
management and operations forboth public sector and
commercial network management.
Vp of operations for Magellan'spublic sector programs and
senior VP public sector.
(04:08):
Impressive career Growingsweeter each season as you
slowly grow old.
What Do you get?
Matt (04:20):
Walk on the ocean?
Yes, See.
Dave (04:22):
Whoa Toad the wet's market .
Toad the wet's market.
Yeah, can either of you singthat?
Walk on the Ocean?
Yes, see, whoa Toad the Wet'sMarket, toad the.
Ellen (04:25):
Wet's Market.
Yeah, Can either of you singthat?
Dave (04:27):
Walk on the ocean.
Oh yeah, step on the ocean.
Justin (04:32):
I had to layer in a 90s song.
I didn't get this one.
I always did that.
You even said did someone get?
Ellen (04:37):
yeah, went right over.
So much goes right over my head.
I'm always focused on, like theyeah, Well welcome Matt.
Dave (04:43):
As you know, we always like to start with a little
party in the front, soapparently you have a super
competitive neighborhood, that-.
Ellen (04:51):
Justin wants to live in that.
Dave (04:51):
Justin wants to live in.
Ellen (04:53):
Yes, which is a little, I think you might be.
It might be a little creepy now, I don't know.
I think maybe we've crossed theline.
Dave (04:59):
Stalking much, yeah, when it comes to Halloween costumes,
the annual Halloween costumecontest.
Justin (05:06):
your motto is go big or go home.
Dave (05:11):
Can you tell us a little bit about this contest and the
costumes you've sported?
Matt (05:15):
Sure can Well.
First, I guess.
Thank you for having me.
This is great andcongratulations on the podcast.
Ellen (05:20):
Thank you, it's fantastic .
Matt (05:21):
Thank you, big fan.
First-time or long-timelistener.
First-time attendee Yay, thankyou for it's fantastic.
Thank you, big fan.
First time or long-timelistener.
First time attendance.
Ellen (05:26):
Yay, I appreciate it.
Thank you for coming.
Matt (05:27):
Yeah, so Halloween.
Yeah, so we have theneighborhood that Justin is
going to move into.
Justin (05:34):
He'll probably be at the party this year.
Matt (05:37):
Great neighborhood, have fantastic neighbors and friends,
and a neighbor down the streethas a big Halloween bash and the
first year we were newneighbors and didn't really know
what to expect and we kind ofshowed up ho-hum costume-wise
and realized that we had to upour game.
Dave (05:55):
So were you Forrest and Jenny?
No, that was this last year.
Hanson Brothers.
Matt (05:59):
That's been done.
That's been done.
But the first year we reallygot into it three of my good
friends in the neighborhood.
We came as Kiss full costume.
Dave (06:09):
Oh, outstanding Outstanding.
Matt (06:11):
And we brought the show down and we just had to up our
game every year.
So sometimes we do it as agroup, sometimes as couples and,
as you said, this last year wasForrest and Jenny with my wife
and I, so we had a blast withthat as well, we got to get a
picture of that yeah.
Ellen (06:26):
Yeah but wasn't there like some really epic middle?
I thought you told us a storyabout like showing up at the
like.
Right, am I missing this so?
Matt (06:38):
before going to the party we were at a pre-party.
Ellen (06:41):
Okay, so this is really a thing.
This is a thing.
There's a pre-gaming for aHalloween party.
Matt (06:46):
This is a thing and my neighbor friend had a riding
lawnmower and we thought it wasa great idea if I make an
entrance to this party on ariding lawnmower in full Forrest
Gump attire and you know it wasa good one.
Justin (06:59):
That is.
It would be tough to one-upthat that is outstanding.
It's like Forrest Gump mixedwith Can't Buy Me Love.
Ellen (07:06):
It's always something with you.
You've always got the sayings,so all right.
So we also learned that you andyour family love the beach,
that you're big beachenthusiasts, and so you know,
justin lives on the west coastof Florida and I live on the
east coast of Florida, and so wesort of have this running
(07:26):
debate.
I think my water is betterbecause we get that Caribbean.
We're the closest beach to theGulf Stream, so we get that blue
Caribbean water.
He's rolling his eyes at me,but we don't get red tide over
there like you do.
Justin (07:40):
No, you don't, that is right so.
Ellen (07:41):
I'm just saying there's a difference in okay.
Justin (07:44):
But the clarity of the water and the beach sand in
Siesta Key is second to none.
Ellen (07:49):
The clarity is on par.
The clarity is on par.
It is you got to come over.
Justin (07:53):
We got to get together more.
There's going to be a throwdown.
Ellen (07:55):
There is so, but anyways, so clearly we're all vitamin D
worshipers, because I understand.
So what are your favoritebeaches?
And I think there's continentaland then outside of the
continental US.
So curious.
Matt (08:07):
Well, so I grew up in Minnesota.
I'm not sure you guys knew that, but I grew up in Minnesota, so
completely landlocked.
Ellen (08:12):
Near a lake or Not.
Near a lake, no.
Matt (08:14):
Spent a lot of time on the lakes but had good fortune of
being able to go to Mexico,riviera Maya, a lot as a kid
with parents and just kind offell in love with beach life.
And after we moved to the EastCoast, after I moved to the East
Coast and we had kids, we soquick story we went on a Disney
cruise and we combined a Disneycruise with Disney itself and
(08:37):
this first time we took the kidsto Disney.
And after we got done with thevacation we said to the kids
would you rather go to the beach, because we stopped at a beach
on the cruise, or would yourather go to Disney?
Ellen (08:48):
Did you go to Castaway Cay we?
Matt (08:49):
did yeah, and they said we'd much rather go to the beach
.
So that was music to my ears.
I never have to go back toDisney again, at least not with
children.
Ellen (08:58):
I'm happy to go back now.
Matt (08:59):
But yeah, we've been beach people ever since.
We've been beach people eversince my wife's from the East
Coast.
We spend a week with some ofthose same neighbors at a little
slice of heaven called Don'ttell him where, don't tell him
where He'll be there.
Ellen (09:10):
Sorry, just warning you.
No, I'm just kidding.
Matt (09:13):
South of Virginia Beach, Sandbridge Island.
Ellen (09:15):
Sandbridge.
Dave (09:15):
Yeah.
Matt (09:16):
Sandbridge Yep, we've talked about Sandbridge.
So yeah, we spend a week Atleast once a year.
We try to get to the Caribbeansomewhere.
So love the Caribbean Jamaica,riviera Maya yeah, so the beach
is good.
Ellen (09:28):
So I'm just going to throw out for you.
So we, these guys know, and youknow from last summer when we
were working together I love totravel and I will tell you
Corsica and Sardinia islandsthat you should seriously
consider if you like the beach.
And the cool thing is Corsicais French, sardinia is Italian,
(09:54):
so you get to and both of themhave like you feel like you're
in a French country or on aFrench island, you feel like
you're on Italian island and youcan take a ferry between the
two and it is very cool, and somy description of them is it's
like being in Tuscany with theCaribbean, without the crowds.
Now don't go in August, butlike June, july, it's phenomenal
(10:18):
.
Matt (10:18):
Okay, I'll get those names for you.
Put them on the list.
Ellen (10:20):
I will, I will so anyways .
Dave (10:22):
Do you have to speak with a French accent?
No, they'll do that.
Stop now.
Ellen (10:26):
Please stop Okay.
Matt (10:33):
Yeah, it sounds like Pepe it out, no we don't need to edit
it out.
Ellen (10:35):
That's what makes this show fun.
Some people say All right.
Dave (10:40):
I guess we have to do that sound effect?
Ellen (10:42):
Which one?
Justin (10:43):
This one, yeah, it does remind me of the Muppet Show.
Ellen (10:49):
It's a little bit between the peanuts and the Muppet Show
, because we're sadlytransitioning from the party in
the front to the business in theback.
Justin (10:54):
Yeah, All right, so let's jump into our topic for
today, which is really going tofocus around the need for
improved care coordination andcare management.
But before we delve into thatin particular, I really want to
talk about where you'recurrently at with Connections
Health Solutions.
You're currently at withConnections Health Solutions and
(11:18):
, for our listeners who haven'theard of Connections, the model
they provide is 24-7 mentalhealth crisis care, with no
exceptions and no judgment.
At each of their centers, theyhave resources and teams that
provide personalized treatmentand care for people with urgent
and immediate mental healthneeds.
Now, matt, can you give us alittle bit of a background on
Connections, the model of careitself and how you're working to
(11:40):
help divert unnecessaryutilization from emergency rooms
and inpatient settings toConnections facilities?
Yeah, absolutely, and thank you.
Matt (11:50):
So you went through a long history that I had on the payer
side 22 years.
You make me feel really old, sothank you.
You know, and we did a lot ofgreat things there on the payer
side, especially work that wedid in the public sector,
medicaid business, and after,you know, getting a long career
there, I wanted to think aboutwhat, what's next and be able to
have more of a direct impactinto the work that I was doing
(12:11):
in the company that you know towork for was doing, and so came
across Connections, whichinterestingly I knew of
Connections, but by another name.
So Dr Chris Carson and Dr RobertWilliamson founded Connections.
They were the co-founders, andactually the model of care which
has come to be known as the23-hour observation model of
(12:31):
care was kind of created out ofnecessity by Dr Carson when he
was actually in Texas in the 90s.
And let me know if you've heardthis story.
But someone boarding in the ERfor a really long time no
inpatient bed available to go,sits in the ER for two to three
days, finally gets transferredand really doesn't get treatment
(12:51):
until that fourth day.
So that was a problem in Texasin the late 90s.
That's still the problem weTexas in the late 90s.
That's still the problem we'rehaving today throughout the
country.
Dave (12:59):
When I was on the payer side.
Matt (13:01):
This was actually something that I was trying to
do in any community, any statethat I was doing business in,
and it was a level of care, ifyou will, that just didn't exist
and it still doesn't exist in alot of communities.
So it was comfortable to me andI knew that there was some
tailwinds in the space from aregulatory perspective, from a
(13:22):
licensure perspective, to reallyjump into this and help to grow
and expand the model.
So we are, as you said, 24-7behavioral health, mental health
or substance abuse, anyone atany time, regardless of
demographic, regardless ofinsurance.
It effectively serves as analternative to the ER, an
alternative to long-terminpatient hospitalization and,
(13:44):
in some cases, alternative tojail and detention.
So yeah, that's the history ofthe organization and we'll get
into a little bit some of theexpansion as we move forward.
Dave (13:53):
Super interesting background and model there.
With the overwhelming volume ofmental health crisis cases
nationally, you must be gettingapproached by every state, I
would imagine right, or federalagencies right, to bring your
model into you know it'sinteresting, no one's ever said
(14:15):
this was a bad idea.
Matt (14:16):
you know, in my time there , and even beforehand.
So I started a little over twoyears ago and at that time there
was six states that hadregulation or legislation
related to crisis care to thetype of model that we have today
.
There's more than 30 statesthat are in the process of
changing regulation orlegislation to allow for this
(14:39):
type of model.
Ellen (14:41):
And what period of time has it shifted to be 30 states?
Matt (14:46):
In the last 18 months.
Wow, yeah, that's crazy, that'samazing.
Pretty significant Catching on,fast Catching on fast, so you
certainly saw some tailwinds.
Definitely some tailwinds.
There's a lot of tailwindscoming out of COVID.
I mean, if there's anythinggood that came out of COVID
other than ripping the bandageoff of telehealth, it's a
heightened emphasis on mentalhealth and on behavioral health.
(15:07):
So yeah, states are looking atthis, local municipalities are
looking at this, counties arelooking at this really.
Counties are looking at thisreally collectively to solve the
same issue and thus providemore access, better care and
better outcomes than what thealternatives are today.
Ellen (15:24):
Very cool.
So recently PBS did a segmenton the Arizona system for
handling crisis care 988availability which I also want
you to give us a little bitabout this 988 availability and
the unique approach the statetakes and highlighted the role
that connections is at play here.
And we'll provide Dave I feellike we say this and then we
(15:48):
have to figure this out is wewill provide a link to that PBS
segment to our listeners in theshow?
Dave (15:54):
notes yeah, absolutely, I just watched it.
Ellen (15:56):
It's really well done, it is actually, but you know
Arizona feels like it's muchfurther ahead from other states.
Can you share why you thinkthat's the case and just give us
a little bit more background onthat?
Matt (16:06):
Yeah, I mean, arizona definitely has been ahead of
other states when it comes tocrisis care and I think what
they did originally was blendfunding blended SAMHSA, block
grant dollars, blended Medicaiddollars, non-medicaid dollars,
county-based dollars to ensurethat the uninsured were cared
for, and there was a path tothat to make programs
sustainable.
I think, like you said, thatPBS piece just came out, I think
(16:29):
last week, and it talks aboutsome of the really good things
that are available in theArizona system in the crisis
system and areas for need forcontinued improvement.
It's evolved over time.
Crisis services have evolved,expanded, moving, you know, past
that, beyond the 23-hourobservation model and into
crisis stabilization.
As it relates to, you know,samhsa 988 is where we're almost
(16:55):
18 months into 988.
Maybe not that far, but it'sdefinitely a year anniversary of
988 launching.
If you don't know what 988 is,please research it.
Everyone should know what thenational hotline for suicide
prevention is.
Dave (17:10):
It's like 911, but I don't remember the stats exactly.
But in that documentary theytalked about there was
previously, right, an 800 numberor toll-free number at National
Suicide Law and the number ofincoming calls increased by huge
amounts when it went to 988.
(17:31):
So just simply changing from an800 toll-free to a 988.
Justin (17:35):
I don't remember the numbers, but it was staggering.
The stats were amazing.
Even with it, I still feel likepeople don't know.
Matt (17:40):
No, I totally agree it hasn't been rolled out
consistently across the country.
There are states and countiesthat have had a dedicated crisis
call center in the past,quickly adopted 988.
But there are still somechallenges that I know SAMHSA is
actively working through andothers are working through to
make sure that the you know it'srolled out, that there is no
(18:00):
confusion, like when you'recalling from a cell phone number
that has a prefix of Nevada andyou're actually in California,
that they know that you're inCalifornia, not Nevada.
So they're working through someof those details and I think
you know there was a plannedrollout of 988, and SANS has
done a fantastic job with thatand they're also it's part of
(18:23):
the kind of this three-leggedstool around crisis.
So someone to call 988, someoneto respond, which would be
mobile crisis, and thensomeplace to go and that's where
organizations like Connectionscome in is someplace to go
without judgment, without stigma, without having to go to an ER,
without fear of going, you know, being detained and ending up
in jail because of a mentalhealth or behavioral health
(18:44):
issue.
Justin (18:45):
Can you explain how you work with the or how Connections
works with first responders ineach community?
Matt (18:51):
Yeah, very, very closely.
You know we consider them a keyconstituent very, very closely.
You know we consider them a keyconstituent and I say that
specifically.
We have a large percentage ofpeople that are transported to
our facilities via lawenforcement or other first
responders.
And I say transport becausethey're not in custody.
Sometimes they're in custodyfor their own safety, but when
they're coming into our facilitywe have peer supports that will
(19:13):
meet law enforcement at a backdoor and take the cuffs off an
individual that they know thatthey're entering into a
treatment environment, not a lawenforcement environment.
So working collaboratively withfirst responders and it kind of
changed the culture of how lawenforcement responds to
behavioral health emergencies isreally important to the work
that we're doing in Arizona andelsewhere.
Justin (19:35):
So I'm going to have you step away from connections for
just a second and we're going togo a little bit more personal
level about what you think isneeded to affect real change
within the marketplace and thehealth care system as a whole.
Can you give your thoughts andopinion on that?
Matt (19:54):
Yeah, you know, as we all have been here in health care
for a really long time, youthink you've got it figured out
as we all laugh, right?
I know, right Wait.
Dave (20:08):
There, it is there, you go , you got it right.
Matt (20:10):
And you know there's so much that you know can be done
better in healthcare.
There's so much that can bedone better in health care and I
think recent experiences, youthink about that kind of first
and foremost so carecoordination, especially with an
(20:30):
aging population.
Systems don't talk to eachother, health systems don't talk
to each other, it systems don'ttalk to each other.
It systems don't talk to eachother.
It's tough, especially in largerural parts of the country
where healthcare does ithealthcare shortages and just
coordinating care generally fora consumer who's dealing with
the healthcare, especiallybehavioral health.
It's tough to coordinate careon behavioral health but
(20:52):
coordinating care generally Justto you know, to have a better
system, a better solution inplace for that to help the
consumer navigate the healthcareexperience better.
I mean, healthcare is for theconsumer, right, I mean, and
sometimes I think we forgetabout that and what it's really
for.
If we need to put the focus onthe consumer, we're going to get
(21:13):
better health outcomes.
Ellen (21:14):
But I love.
So you know we had the pleasureof working with you and really
got to dive into I reallyenjoyed learning not only the
model but the value propositionof the model.
And when you talk about carecoordination, we think about
(21:34):
primary care and how itintegrates in with specialty
care and then acute care andbehavioral sort of.
Is this ancillary?
And what we realized and Ithink, like you said, covid
really hit home that behavioralis part of it all.
It's not an ancillary.
It shouldn't be stuck in acorner over there, which is what
(21:56):
we have effectively done and Ijust loved how the model that
you represent, that you'rebuilding and putting in
different parts of the country,is.
It addresses behavioral at thatcare coordination level and it
meets people where they are,because so many times things can
(22:18):
be de-escalated really quicklyjust by somebody getting the
right medication or just havingsomeone to talk to.
And so the idea of having aphysical location where somebody
can come and just sit and andbe heard, like you, without
judgment, and that there aredifferent levels of care, just
(22:39):
for a behavioral health issueright Versus you come in, like
you said, and I don't thinkpeople really I certainly didn't
understand the need for carecoordination at a behavioral
health level.
On its own right, it's stillintegrated in.
And so I just, when we talkabout care coordination I know
(23:00):
we're going to talk aboutbroader care coordination, but I
just I think it's really coolthat you get to work in taking a
model that was working inArizona and now bringing it to
other parts of the country tosay, look, behavioral health is
a huge problem for our country,it's a huge challenge for health
care.
(23:20):
You know, like Justin joked, Igot my food discussion.
He is super passionate, as youknow.
That's how you all met aboutbehavioral health and I just I
think it's really remarkable andyeah, so, yeah, you know the
behavioral health.
Matt (23:39):
I would put it in a different term Behavioral health
is a huge opportunity for thecountry, right, yep, it is a
problem that we haven't gottenit right yet, and I think that's
the opportunity that's in frontof us.
You know your point around thecare coordination aspect.
Someone comes into a facility,a crisis facility and the goal
is to stabilize and return yourpoint around the care
coordination aspect someonecomes into a facility, a crisis
(23:59):
facility and the goal is tostabilize and return, get that
individual back to the communityas quickly as possible, and
that could just be an urgentcare visit because there are
meds and they are not able tosee their psychiatrist to get a
refill.
It could mean a 23-hour you knowless than 23-hour stay just to
stabilize what's going on andreally talking about not what
the problem is, but whathappened, that you got here and
(24:20):
we're glad that you're here buthow can we help address social,
determinative health issues,other issues that you know cause
the crisis or whatever is goingon, and address that head on
and then do the follow-up aswell?
You know we view ourselves aspart of a system.
We can't exist in a silo and wehave to work with all other
organizations and providers inthe system, and I think that's
(24:41):
something that we do really welland we need to do really well
as we expand into new markets,on really helping to use our
position to help coordinate thesystem in a better way so that
it's more accountable to theconsumers who are utilizing it.
Ellen (24:56):
And I'll put a plug to all the payers, all the people
on the payer side.
We talked in the episodeprevious to this about the sides
that shouldn't really exist,right?
Justin (25:07):
But joking aside, Star Wars type of analogies that are
used.
Ellen (25:11):
Yeah, it's like we could bring the lightsaber.
I wish we had that sound effectright Like that buzz noise.
That's like a cool, very like.
Dave (25:19):
Seems to me that there should be a connections facility
in every community.
Justin (25:26):
Doesn't it feel like that?
Dave (25:27):
Well, I heard this.
You know Matt's conversationabout the borders in the
emergency room.
I know that happens in ourlocal hospital all the time.
Ellen (25:37):
Well, your wife works there, Right.
Dave (25:39):
And there's borders.
They're literally on a gurneyin the hallway.
They're not getting anytreatment, they're not getting
any quick care coordination.
It feels third world, doesn'tit?
Yeah, absolutely, but so I'mnot an expert in this topic like
you are.
But you often say, justin, thatit used to be back in the day
(26:00):
that we had this, so why did itgo away?
Justin (26:03):
That's a good question.
We didn't invest in thosecommunities where these
locations were.
It became easier to push theseindividuals into the emergency
room and it's unfortunate thatwe didn't invest in those things
.
But I'm interested in Matt'sopinion on the dynamic.
Ellen (26:21):
So wait, because I lost my train of thought on the
lightsaber.
Dave (26:24):
Oh, I'm so sorry.
Ellen (26:25):
It's okay.
You were right to take over theconversation because I had gone
down a bad rabbit hole, butwhere I was going to Now you're
taking it back.
I am, and then I do want to goback to the question you posed,
but if we can remember, it isvalue-based care is, I feel,
like the opportunity.
When we talk aboutopportunities, it is the
opportunity to recognize thismodel of care delivery for
(26:51):
behavioral health as part ofcare coordination at large, and
I think that is one of theplaces that we have gone wrong.
And I'll pose this.
Working with you all reallyopened my eyes to the fact that
we're big proponents, as youknow, of value-based care.
That is something that I'msuper passionate about.
(27:12):
It's a legacy item for me inwhat I'm doing, and so I really
was blind to the fact thatvalue-based care largely ignored
things like behavioral healthright, and like we've talked
about before, we've We've carvedthose things out and now we've
kind of given the money away andwe need to figure out how to
(27:34):
bring the money back together,which is right.
So my point was I was trying toplug the payers to say these
models need to be recognized invalue-based care for the
inherent value that they bringbeyond just the incidents, the
services that come in your door.
Matt (27:53):
That's an excellent point.
I think payers get it.
I think conceptually they getit.
I'm a recovering payer.
I think the industry gets it,but there has to be more of an
emphasis on it.
You can think about it frommany different aspects, but if
(28:14):
you think about it just from atop line dollar aspect of an
episode of someone in atraditional model, as we think
about traditional, you're reallynot having a good day.
Ellen (28:26):
So walk us through that, because I do actually think it's
a good education.
We've kind of hit on it on theperiphery here, but walk us
through what the alternative toconnections is for the
healthcare system, because thereare a lot of people that listen
to this that don't have thatbackground.
Matt (28:40):
Yeah, I mean, someone is suicidal, homicidal, really not
feeling.
Well, something's going on andthey make the appropriate right
call and say or hopefullythey're calling 988 now, but
previously they're just goingdirectly to the er, where else
are you gonna?
Where else to go, right?
Ellen (28:56):
or they're brought right or they you know they call 9-1-1
.
Matt (29:00):
Law enforcement comes out and law enforcement is bringing
them to the er, bringing themsomeplace or the family or
something, yeah so you you know.
I don't know off the top of myhead what the average boarding
time, and it varies by, variesby community, but there's always
someone boarding for abehavioral health issue in an ER
.
Ellen (29:16):
Meaning that they're just staying Again.
I'm—.
Matt (29:18):
They're waiting for a bed to open up, they're waiting for
medical clearance.
They're waiting for something.
That's one of the things aboutour facilities.
We do medical clearance.
You don't have to go to an ERto be medically cleared, to be
admitted into one of ourfacilities, but they're waiting
for a bed to fill up.
There's a shortage of beds,there's a workforce issue right,
a shortage of beds and sothey're boarding for 8, 12, 24
(29:44):
hours, not getting activetreatment and then admitted to
an inpatient facility, probablynot getting active treatment
until day two.
So you're three days into acrisis and sitting in an ER is
not a great place for anyone butsomeone that's experienced a
behavioral health issue.
So the alternative is you cometo a crisis facility and your
point early Dave about.
You know it's happening in thehospital where your wife works.
(30:04):
It happens every day and thereare other alternatives to
large-scale programs like ours.
There are psych emergencyservices, there are other kind
of.
There's empath units thatorganizations you know largely
rural community hospitals arelooking at as an alternative to
make it a more cost-effectivealternative for those rural
(30:24):
communities.
But yeah, so the ER admissioncost of the health care insurer
inpatient admission cost of thehealth care insurer inpatient
admission cost of the healthcare insurer.
Ellen (30:36):
And it's not even the appropriate place.
And it's not the appropriateplace.
There's nobody there.
Matt (30:39):
And readmission rates aren't that great.
And that's when the carecoordination aspect comes in.
Is really what is going on?
Are we really addressing whatcaused the crisis and the
individual to come in, versuscall your PCP and follow up in
seven days, right?
So the alternative is to geteffective, immediate treatment
(31:02):
right away.
So in models like ours we're amedical model, a full complement
of medical staff that aretreating the crisis as well as
treating the psychosocial issuesas well.
We have a lot of techs, a lotof peers that support our
program.
So we're really addressing whatcause the individual would come
in and how can we help that nothappen again and you know it
(31:26):
will and we'll get you know.
We continue to work with thatindividual and work with the
outpatient provider or othercommunity supports to make sure
that they have the support thatthey need to remain in the
community so, dave, are yougoing to ask your question, one
of the questions we always askyeah, sure um maybe we can sing
yeah no, we, we always.
Ellen (31:47):
That's old enough, right, right you know that.
Dave (31:49):
You know the old commercial like to buy the world
a Coke.
Ellen (31:53):
In perfect harmony.
Matt (31:57):
I remember that commercial .
So thanks again, Justin, forwriting on my email.
Dave (32:02):
Now you've got an earworm for the rest of the day.
What would be your?
Matt (32:07):
buy the world a Coke moment For health care, for
health care, make it easier forthe consumer For healthcare, for
healthcare.
Make it easier for the consumerand you know so anything that
(32:31):
could be easier for a consumer,especially vulnerable
populations, you know, in thelens of care coordination and
care management, how can we makeit better?
You know, I think there's a lotof fear about AI and what it's
going to do to health care andwhat it's going to do to a lot
of industries, but health carein particular, and I know enough
about AI to get myself introuble when talking about it.
But this, you know, being ableto link certain health care
systems, and I recently had anexperience where you know
individuals was gettingtreatment in one health care
(32:53):
system and received outpatientservices in another healthcare
system.
Those systems didn't talk toeach other because they didn't
have the same medical managementplatform, the EMR, and they
just didn't talk to each othergenerally and that just puts a
patient in a bad situation ofreally trying to navigate on
their own and I think for thoseof us just personally been in
(33:15):
healthcare for a really longtime, you think you got to
figure it out.
Until you are in the depths ofactually trying to figure it out
and, uh, then it becomes a lotmore eyeopening.
Ellen (33:23):
Absolutely so you need.
You made me think and this is aguest that we're going to have,
probably sooner than later, butthere's a company you should
look into into it, called LirioL-I-R-I O.
You might have heard of them,but I think they're an
interesting.
When you talk about AI and theneed for again behavioral health
(33:43):
and behavior in general, theyhave an interesting approach
that you that sort of new entreeof being dangerous and AI Like.
I think that's an interesting.
I'll be very interested to seewhere Martin and company go,
because I think it's a.
It's a great concept.
But so last question if youcould leave a legacy in
(34:05):
healthcare or feel like you madea big difference, what would it
be?
Matt (34:09):
Legacy is a big term.
Ellen (34:10):
It is, but that's why we this is why it's our passion
project, because it's like let'stalk big, real.
Matt (34:16):
I'd probably answer that maybe three ways if that's okay.
One is anything that I can do,or the company I'm working with
can do, to continue to reducestigma around behavioral health,
mental health, stigma aroundbehavioral health, mental health
.
And ultimately, if there couldbe a legacy, it would be someone
(34:37):
saying you know, the same way,I've got to go to my PT
appointment.
Right Broke my arm going PT.
I've got to go to my PTappointment Without shame.
For someone to say I need to goto my behavioral health
appointment without shame.
So, as a country, for us to beable to get there and if we can
(35:03):
influence legislation, if we caninfluence regulation, to be
able to allow for new innovativeservices.
You know, the behavioral healthdelivery system and services
hasn't really changed.
Probably the biggest change wasdeinstitutionalization and
COVID helped just from arecognition standpoint that
(35:23):
mental health is real and weneed to talk more about it.
We need to be more accepting ofit, so getting it to be more
commonplace and not as much of astigma, right?
Ellen (35:33):
Not as much as a stigma and not being afraid to talk
about it, so getting it to bemore commonplace.
And not as much of a stigma,right?
Matt (35:34):
Not as much as a stigma and not being afraid to talk
about it and having it be.
You know it's an illness, justlike pneumonia is an illness
right and get treatment and beable to treat it as an illness
and not as something you knowbehind closed doors.
Ellen (35:50):
I would.
Actually I will sort of throw aI don't want to say counter,
because it's I agree with you,but I think this gets into just
health in general.
We talk about our physicalhealth and the need to put
energy towards it right what weeat, how we move our bodies, our
(36:11):
sleep, and I think our mentalhealth is just as imperative.
And I think if, as a society,we talked more about how to keep
our mental health at the top ofits game, it would be a real
game changer for so manydifferent layers.
I mean, it would remove stigma,it would allow us to be much
(36:34):
more proactive, it would allowus to be honest with each other
of you know, I'm just notfeeling it today.
Right, I'm a little cranky, I'mwhatever and right, and like
today, whenever I got off theplane and.
I was snippy.
I don't know why, but well,well, I didn't get enough sleep.
She yelled at me, but you getwhat I'm saying, Matt.
Dave (36:53):
Like.
Ellen (36:53):
I think there's such an opportunity of.
I mean, I hope we have a lotmore around behavioral health
and mental health on our podcast, Because as much as I love food
and could talk about healthlike that, I think the
behavioral aspect and mentalhealth in general is just
largely not discussed and notrecognized.
Matt (37:14):
And you know, the third thing I was going to mention
comes back to that, right.
So better mental health isgoing to be better overall
health, which is better to thehealthcare system, better to the
healthcare dollar, right?
There's a ton of not understoodcosts related to mental health,
right?
Whether it's workplace, whetherit's just healthcare costs
(37:37):
generally.
If we're taking care of mentalhealth, behavioral health, we're
going to take care of the restof the healthcare costs and I
think, from a legacy standpoint,there's not a lot of
value-based care in behavioralhealth very little, right.
So that's one of the thingsthat we're going to try to
change connections as wecontinue.
The work that we're doingacross the country and expanding
(37:58):
is really focusing on the valueto the consumer.
The value to address a healthcare issue that is directly
getting better outcomes for theconsumer in a much more
(38:20):
cost-conscious way is good forthe health care system.
Justin (38:23):
So I'm going to go off script real quick.
Ellen (38:25):
Because I haven't done that today.
Justin (38:27):
Where did your passion for behavioral health like the
personally?
Where did it come from?
For behavioral healthpersonally when did it come?
Matt (38:36):
from Most of my family's in health care.
My mom was a LPN and thenworked in a county-based WIC
clinic.
So I went to school, graduatedwith psychology and criminal
justice.
My eyesight was really crappyso I couldn't get into the FBI.
So I kind of landed on thedelivery system side and had
always done things from acommunity-based behavioral
(39:00):
health perspective.
So I got my start in morecommunity-based behavioral
health programs partial hospitalprograms, group home programs,
actually a crisis center Well,actually one of the first ones
in Philadelphia way back in theday and as I moved into the
managed care side I think Ididn't know what managed care
(39:23):
was.
When I moved into managed care Iwas younger in my career and
really kind of realized, gosh, Ican glean so much for this from
the administrative side and thepayer side.
To then bring that back to thedelivery system side and um, so
it's a long-winded say, a way ofsaying it's just kind of been
innate um over the career that'swhy you guys are like soul
(39:45):
brothers or something you knowyou're like like I said, I'm
showing up at your house withthe soul mates.
Ellen (39:50):
They are they're?
Justin (39:51):
they're like brothers I have to figure out my outfit.
That's my For.
Ellen (39:55):
Halloween.
Yes, you got to go big.
Justin, you are forewarned?
Yeah, he's been forewarned,yeah, yeah.
Dave (40:04):
What's Connection's footprint right now other than
Arizona, and where are you goingif you can say?
Matt (40:10):
Yeah, so we've been operating for 15 years in
Arizona, so Phoenix and Tucsonwe see about 30,000 people a
year between those two centers.
That's a lot of people comingthrough the doors.
In Arizona we're expanding toWashington State.
This summer We'll have a largefacility in Kirkland, washington
.
There's a lot of great thingsgoing on in Washington.
(40:32):
The state and the county aretaking some really proactive
steps to address behavioralhealth issues generally.
Virginia we're going to belaunching in Virginia this year.
We'll have two programs inVirginia Northern Virginia and
then Pennsylvania as well.
So Harrisburg will be our firstprogram in Pennsylvania and a
lot of tailwinds behind us and,as you said, there's just a lot
(40:54):
of people looking at this of amuch more effective and better
outcome alternative to what'shappening today or what's not
happening today.
Ellen (41:04):
Well, after talking with Dr Elliott, our guest just now,
I feel like Delaware is aperfect proving ground.
Matt (41:11):
It's on the map absolutely .
Ellen (41:13):
It sounds like it's a perfect microcosm.
Justin (41:16):
Every state.
You've got to have one in everystate.
We do need to have one in everystate.
Ellen (41:19):
Well, I'm so glad you came, Matt.
Matt (41:22):
It's a pleasure to be here .
I'm so glad I was able to come.
Ellen (41:24):
It's fun to have a friend on the podcast.
Justin (41:26):
Yes, absolutely I appreciate your time, justin
certainly
Ellen (41:29):
feels that way so sorry, I gotta give you a hard time I
can't I know I get.
Hey, it's coming back at meit's you exactly you dish it out
at me, so I so I have to havethick skin.
That's right, that's all right.
Matt (41:40):
We all should have told me this like two years ago, the
house right next to me opened up.
No, you you're glad you're glad.
Justin (41:47):
So I'm texting shan after my wife after this and I'm
like I I told no.
Ellen (41:50):
So we were joking about this, because here in town, in
Westchester, where we are, we'redriving through town to get a
coffee and Justin's like thisplace is great, I could be like
the mayor.
He literally said that I couldbe like the mayor here and I
said, yeah, but you can'tendlessly sit in the sun and go
to the beach here.
That's the problem.
So it would not be it.
So, anyways, well, thanks again.
(42:14):
I'm Ellen Brown, I'm DavePavlik and I'm Justin Politti.
We are the partners at BP2Health your best chance for real
change.
Dave (42:19):
As you can tell, we can talk about this all day long.
Drop us a line through ourwebsite, bp2healthcom.
This episode is produced byMainline Studios in Westchester
Pennsylvania.
Ellen (42:33):
Give Eric a shout, eric Pennsylvania.
Give Eric a shout, eric, yeah,give Eric a shout this has been
a guest studio for us and it hasbeen fantastic.
Dave (42:40):
Yes.
Ellen (42:41):
Yeah.
Dave (42:41):
Thanks again.
Justin (42:41):
Thanks again.
Have a great day, thank you.
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