Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
I'm Alan Brown.
I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Justin Politi.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
And we're here live at Health.
We're here with the ReverseMullet Healthcare Podcast and we
have our special guest, Gil,that I'm super excited to have
him on the podcast.
So tell us about why am Iexcited to meet what you're up
to?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
So I'm a scientist in background, born and raised in
Israel, phd in biology.
I always wanted to stop theclock.
I always wanted to stop theclock.
I always wanted to help humansto live better, longer, and
that's why I decided to move tothe US, spent five years at MIT
at the best lab that studiedaging, and during that time,
started to be exposed to thebiotech pharma environment of
(00:39):
Kendall Square, which is, I'msure, the place I used to work
there, yeah, which is, I'm sure,the telephone.
I used to work there, yeah, andmoved to the industry, worked
there for a couple of years anddeveloped a company that is
trying to help humans to livebetter longer based on what
happens inside the body.
So what we do?
We actually look at bloodbiomarkers, dna data from
fitness tracker.
We just added a foodrecognition that you can scan
(01:00):
your food and know exactly whatyou ate for a week, and based on
that, we are using AI, expertsystem and other to provide a
very refined laser focusrecommendation.
What are the interventions thatyou need to do in order to
allow you to live better longer,and that includes food
supplement, exercise andlifestyle changes.
(01:20):
What is cool about that is thatwe are doing it for more than a
decade and we have more than100,000 users that have done it,
and we have a big data thatshow that a correlation is still
a correlation because wehaven't done a proper clinical
trial, but it showed that, uh,our users, when they tested and
then follow our recommendation,tested again, improve a lot of
(01:42):
those blood biomarkers frombaseline to follow-up, so that's
very exciting.
I think that's very relevantfor your audience, because it
might be a time for healthcaresystems to start using
personalized recommendations.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, so do you think it's interesting?
Because, do you think that,like, I'm really intrigued by
behavioral nudging?
It's interesting because do youthink that, like, I'm really
intrigued by behavioral nudgingand I think, when you give
people the right amount ofinformation, like, I'm a big fan
of my aura, right, tom Haleknows, right, I'm always pinging
and I love that.
They you know their recentacquisition and it's very clear
that they look to be much biggerthan just a sleep organization.
(02:17):
You know a sleep company.
But I look at InsideTr, insidetracker, and I think is there a
behavioral nudging components ofthat?
Because, your point right, they, when people have the
information that they need, theyfeel empowered to make change
and that even that's enough yeah, no, it's.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
It's a great question and actually I uh, I'm thinking
about it a lot and we startedwith blood, so I see blood as a
mountain, because you receive,as you said, a lot of
information.
Some of it is very concerningfor you, so you get pissed On
some of it.
You get excited.
But, it makes a lot of emotion.
And then, if you think about it, on average, our users are
getting blood tests every 270days, so you have a peak and
(02:52):
then you have a valley of 270days and another peak.
So we try to allow the user tohave a few small hills between
the peaks to allow them toreceive some meaningful
recommendation.
So the data from Oreming, forexample, is a great example for
that, or Apple Watch or whateveryou have.
We integrate with all of thatbecause we can find that you
(03:13):
haven't had a good night's sleep, so we'll provide for you a
recommendation specific for that.
But it's still connected forthe background of what blood
biomarkers are not optimized Igot you, so we can tell you to
drink this drink or to eat thisfood, or to do the exercise at
the right time and so on.
So that's one way to have abasically heal between of the
mountains.
(03:33):
Another example is what we hadright now is the food
recognition, so you can scanyour food for a week and then we
are telling you which macromicronutrient you are not
consuming enough or consumingtoo much.
Or also we can we develop likea gunshot that show you when you
ate, when you exercise, whenyou slept, when you supplemented
.
And then we can start lookingat timing and telling, hey, you
(03:55):
ate too close to your sleep.
No doubt that's the reason thatyou are not sleeping well.
Or you haven't ate enoughprotein following your exercise,
yeah.
Or your intermittent fastingwasn't long enough, or so on.
So we are providing that valuefor the user.
And another thing that we haveis what we call a pro tip.
(04:16):
So, for example, we went for anexercise.
A few minutes after that we aretelling you, hey, congrats, you
came back from exercise.
Few minutes after that, we aretelling you hey, congrats, you
came back from exercise.
Now you need to eat this amountof protein, this amount of carb
and drink this amount of liquidin order to replenish.
So that's another example.
And the last one that we aregoing to release soon is a
HealthPen Habits Score.
So every week, you will receivebasically a report that shows
(04:41):
you what have you done well andwhat you haven't done well,
mainly from the fitness tracker,but also from questions that we
are asking you, and that'sconnected in a way to your
longevity, because we haveanother solution that's called
inner age, that we calculateyour biological age.
So this one will come tell youhey, you haven't walked enough
steps and there is a correlationbetween step and longevity.
Yep, or you haven't sleptenough, and that's also my inner
(05:04):
longevity.
So the combination of all ofthose hills, with the mountain
of the blood and the hugemountain of DNA, allow the user
to be engaged more and we seethat there is a correlation.
As I told you pre-recording, wesubmitted a paper for
publication with 20,000 usersthat tested baseline and
follow-up and a few follow-upmore than that, and we have a
(05:26):
subpopulation, for example, thatstarted with high LDL
cholesterol that from thebaseline to follow-up they
decreased significantly,continued to be low.
For the third, fourth and fifthand the sixth one, they even
decreased it more.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And that's without Sounds like a true patient
engagement.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I know Patient engagement tool and I have to
say like so.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
so Josh and I are both like when can we do inside
tracker Right?
I like I've been it's beensomething actually I have.
I have.
I have talked many times aboutdoing it, but it's, this is like
.
I love that.
Like we were just talking tosomebody earlier who said yeah,
my husband went great shape,amazing athlete, but come to
find out cardiovascularly hewasn't healthy, right.
Went to the cardiologist andthey were like this is horrific.
(06:06):
You know you're going to diewhatever and she's on the
nutrition side of the world,right A nutritional scientist,
and so she was like well, it'sfood and the doctor's like no,
no, it's a dire thing orwhatever, and I love that.
You've got users that areengaging.
You're giving them theinformation they need.
They're engaging, they're doingit and they're not going out by
themselves.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
How long do they spend on average in the
application?
Because it sounds like youcould really be super engaged.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Yeah, so again, in the peak they can spend hours of
time to understand and realize,and then in the hills it can be
only one minute.
You receive a notification.
Hey, you haven't slept well.
Drink this cherry juice so itcan be one minute, half a minute
a day or even half a minute aweek, so we are not sending a
notification if we don't havewhat to say.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah, this notification should be engaged
with it a little bit, like theyhave to be.
You have to be gettinginformation yeah, I at least
connect your fitness trackerwhich is unbiased yeah, yeah,
very, very interesting.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
So we always ask guests this what do you think
can affect real change inhealthcare?
Speaker 3 (07:07):
I think that the real change in healthcare, in my
opinion, should come from theconsumer, or from the you call
it patient.
So I think that a patientshould come to their clinician
physician and tell them hey, wewant to use data, we want you to
use wearable data, we want youto look at my wearable data, we
want you to know nutritionWearable wearable See I win.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
She's converted me on wearables.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
They used to make so much fun of me.
They're like Ellen and herwearables.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
No, but wearables.
If you look at blood, blood isa liquid gold and then you look
at the wearable, the value ofthe wearable data is much lower
but the frequency is much higher.
So you cannot do triglyceridesevery day.
You can have your resting heartrate every day.
You can have your VO2 max.
You can have your sleep everyday.
So it's the frequency versusthe value.
(07:57):
So I agree with everyone thevalue is lower but because you
have the frequency it can giveyou some estimate to understand
what happened with the realblood biomarker.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
So that's why I like it.
So you mentioned VO2max, so doyou have an application?
Do you have a suggestion forlike VO2max exercises?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Of course, of course.
Yeah, you should do a highintensity interval training,
more aerobic.
That's my every week, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Every day Sleep better.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
So, yeah, absolutely.
We have thousands ofrecommendations for our users.
So, if you are going back to,you asked me, what will convert
the clinician?
So I think that the patientshould do that, but also the
clinician should be moreopen-minded.
For example, an averageclinician gets trained around 20
hours in nutrition.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
And that's nothing.
What is 20 hours?
That's a theme we've beencontinuing in here.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Reading a book is the 20 hours, yeah, yeah.
So I think that something aboutthe training of the clinician,
I think that also the perceptionabout a dietician is not as
good as it should be.
They are doing a great job.
So I think that there are a lotof things to change and
definitely the problem is thesystem.
I'm sure that you know thehotel and gym model Basically a
(09:09):
healthcare system like to fillthe hospital like a hotel and
fill the machine like a gym, sothe MRI should be full all the
time Instead of coming andsaying, no, I don't want to go
home and go to the gym, yeahWell we don't have.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I'll say two things to that.
First, I'll go back to yourpoint about training for
physicians.
So we've become really, reallybig advocates of the American
College of Lifestyle Medicine,because to us We'll be there
next week.
Right, we'll be there next weekat their hovers, but we think
that's like a fantastic bridgetool to allow traditional
provider organizations in theAmerican healthcare system to
(09:42):
say, okay, well, we need ourdoctors to understand the six
pillars you know, sleep, all thethings that your tracker you
know is monitoring, right,Embracing a care model around
that.
And then that leads me to mysecond point, which is we need
like we were talking aboutbefore we started is we have
sick care?
I mean, this hall is sick care,right, and we walked by a
hospital bed which is a littledisturbing to me.
(10:03):
I'm not going to lie, we don'thave health care, we don't.
We have all these differentpoint solutions, right, but
imagine we bring these togetherto your point and somebody comes
in and says I don't wantcardiometabolic syndrome anymore
.
You can't figure out how tochange that right now, but we
need to have an alternative forthat person.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I don't want to just be treated, I actually want to
right, and I feel like your toolis almost a tool for health
literacy to a certain extent,because there's a lot of that's
a really good point.
It's just something that somany people are lacking.
If you have something that youcan engage in, that you know
you're learning as you go right,it gets overwhelming to people
when they're trying to improve.
You know their current state,so you know.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah, also, the disease are not starting at the
age of 60 or 50.
Oh no, I know.
So if you have cardiovascularissues, if you will test your
LDL cholesterol or APOB earlyand will take the statin or
change your behavior, you have abetter chance not to have a
cardiovascular disease.
The same way is if you willmeasure your insulin early and
will see that it's spiked toomuch, you might be able to
(11:07):
manage it by nutrition and notinjecting insulin.
So there are so many things thatwe can do using prevention, but
there is no motivation for thehealthcare system to do it right
now, and I think that it's amindset.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
And hence why we're all about value-based care and
outcome-based care.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
It just has to be a movie.
It has to be a movie, yeah.
I'm Alan Brown.
I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Justin Politi.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
And we're here live at Health.
We're here with the ReverseMullet Healthcare Podcast and we
have our special guest, Gil,that I'm super excited to have
him on the podcast.
So tell us about why am Iexcited to meet what you're up
to?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
So I'm a scientist in background, born and raised in
Israel, phd in biology.
I always wanted to stop theclock.
I always wanted to stop theclock.
I always wanted to help humansto live better, longer, and
that's why I decided to move tothe US, spent five years at MIT
at the best lab that studiedaging, and during that time,
started to be exposed to thebiotech pharma environment of
(00:39):
Kendall Square, which is, I'msure, the place I used to work
there, yeah, which is, I'm sure,the telephone.
I used to work there, yeah, andmoved to the industry, worked
there for a couple of years anddeveloped a company that is
trying to help humans to livebetter longer based on what
happens inside the body.
So what we do?
We actually look at bloodbiomarkers, dna data from
fitness tracker.
We just added a foodrecognition that you can scan
(01:00):
your food and know exactly whatyou ate for a week, and based on
that, we are using AI, expertsystem and other to provide a
very refined laser focusrecommendation.
What are the interventions thatyou need to do in order to
allow you to live better longer,and that includes food
supplement, exercise andlifestyle changes.
(01:20):
What is cool about that is thatwe are doing it for more than a
decade and we have more than100,000 users that have done it,
and we have a big data thatshow that a correlation is still
a correlation because wehaven't done a proper clinical
trial, but it showed that, uh,our users, when they tested and
then follow our recommendation,tested again, improve a lot of
(01:42):
those blood biomarkers frombaseline to follow-up, so that's
very exciting.
I think that's very relevantfor your audience, because it
might be a time for healthcaresystems to start using
personalized recommendations.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, so do you think it's interesting?
Because, do you think that,like, I'm really intrigued by
behavioral nudging?
It's interesting because do youthink that, like, I'm really
intrigued by behavioral nudgingand I think, when you give
people the right amount ofinformation, like, I'm a big fan
of my aura, right, tom Haleknows, right, I'm always pinging
and I love that.
They you know their recentacquisition and it's very clear
that they look to be much biggerthan just a sleep organization.
(02:17):
You know a sleep company.
But I look at InsideTr, insidetracker, and I think is there a
behavioral nudging components ofthat?
Because, your point right, they, when people have the
information that they need, theyfeel empowered to make change
and that even that's enough yeah, no, it's.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
It's a great question and actually I uh, I'm thinking
about it a lot and we startedwith blood, so I see blood as a
mountain, because you receive,as you said, a lot of
information.
Some of it is very concerningfor you, so you get pissed On
some of it.
You get excited.
But, it makes a lot of emotion.
And then, if you think about it, on average, our users are
getting blood tests every 270days, so you have a peak and
(02:52):
then you have a valley of 270days and another peak.
So we try to allow the user tohave a few small hills between
the peaks to allow them toreceive some meaningful
recommendation.
So the data from Oreming, forexample, is a great example for
that, or Apple Watch or whateveryou have.
We integrate with all of thatbecause we can find that you
(03:13):
haven't had a good night's sleep, so we'll provide for you a
recommendation specific for that.
But it's still connected forthe background of what blood
biomarkers are not optimized Igot you, so we can tell you to
drink this drink or to eat thisfood, or to do the exercise at
the right time and so on.
So that's one way to have abasically heal between of the
mountains.
(03:33):
Another example is what we hadright now is the food
recognition, so you can scanyour food for a week and then we
are telling you which macromicronutrient you are not
consuming enough or consumingtoo much.
Or also we can we develop likea gunshot that show you when you
ate, when you exercise, whenyou slept, when you supplemented
.
And then we can start lookingat timing and telling, hey, you
(03:55):
ate too close to your sleep.
No doubt that's the reason thatyou are not sleeping well.
Or you haven't ate enoughprotein following your exercise,
yeah.
Or your intermittent fastingwasn't long enough, or so on.
So we are providing that valuefor the user.
And another thing that we haveis what we call a pro tip.
(04:16):
So, for example, we went for anexercise.
A few minutes after that we aretelling you, hey, congrats, you
came back from exercise.
Few minutes after that, we aretelling you hey, congrats, you
came back from exercise.
Now you need to eat this amountof protein, this amount of carb
and drink this amount of liquidin order to replenish.
So that's another example.
And the last one that we aregoing to release soon is a
HealthPen Habits Score.
So every week, you will receivebasically a report that shows
(04:41):
you what have you done well andwhat you haven't done well,
mainly from the fitness tracker,but also from questions that we
are asking you, and that'sconnected in a way to your
longevity, because we haveanother solution that's called
inner age, that we calculateyour biological age.
So this one will come tell youhey, you haven't walked enough
steps and there is a correlationbetween step and longevity.
Yep, or you haven't sleptenough, and that's also my inner
(05:04):
longevity.
So the combination of all ofthose hills, with the mountain
of the blood and the hugemountain of DNA, allow the user
to be engaged more and we seethat there is a correlation.
As I told you pre-recording, wesubmitted a paper for
publication with 20,000 usersthat tested baseline and
follow-up and a few follow-upmore than that, and we have a
(05:26):
subpopulation, for example, thatstarted with high LDL
cholesterol that from thebaseline to follow-up they
decreased significantly,continued to be low.
For the third, fourth and fifthand the sixth one, they even
decreased it more.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And that's without Sounds like a true patient
engagement.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I know Patient engagement tool and I have to
say like so.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
so Josh and I are both like when can we do inside
tracker Right?
I like I've been it's beensomething actually I have.
I have.
I have talked many times aboutdoing it, but it's, this is like
.
I love that.
Like we were just talking tosomebody earlier who said yeah,
my husband went great shape,amazing athlete, but come to
find out cardiovascularly hewasn't healthy, right.
Went to the cardiologist andthey were like this is horrific.
(06:06):
You know you're going to diewhatever and she's on the
nutrition side of the world,right A nutritional scientist,
and so she was like well, it'sfood and the doctor's like no,
no, it's a dire thing orwhatever, and I love that.
You've got users that areengaging.
You're giving them theinformation they need.
They're engaging, they're doingit and they're not going out by
themselves.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
How long do they spend on average in the
application?
Because it sounds like youcould really be super engaged.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Yeah, so again, in the peak they can spend hours of
time to understand and realize,and then in the hills it can be
only one minute.
You receive a notification.
Hey, you haven't slept well.
Drink this cherry juice so itcan be one minute, half a minute
a day or even half a minute aweek, so we are not sending a
notification if we don't havewhat to say.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah, this notification should be engaged
with it a little bit, like theyhave to be.
You have to be gettinginformation yeah, I at least
connect your fitness trackerwhich is unbiased yeah, yeah,
very, very interesting.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
So we always ask guests this what do you think
can affect real change inhealthcare?
Speaker 3 (07:07):
I think that the real change in healthcare, in my
opinion, should come from theconsumer, or from the you call
it patient.
So I think that a patientshould come to their clinician
physician and tell them hey, wewant to use data, we want you to
use wearable data, we want youto look at my wearable data, we
want you to know nutritionWearable wearable See I win.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
She's converted me on wearables.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
They used to make so much fun of me.
They're like Ellen and herwearables.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
No, but wearables.
If you look at blood, blood isa liquid gold and then you look
at the wearable, the value ofthe wearable data is much lower
but the frequency is much higher.
So you cannot do triglyceridesevery day.
You can have your resting heartrate every day.
You can have your VO2 max.
You can have your sleep everyday.
So it's the frequency versusthe value.
(07:57):
So I agree with everyone thevalue is lower but because you
have the frequency it can giveyou some estimate to understand
what happened with the realblood biomarker.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
So that's why I like it.
So you mentioned VO2max, so doyou have an application?
Do you have a suggestion forlike VO2max exercises?
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Of course, of course.
Yeah, you should do a highintensity interval training,
more aerobic.
That's my every week, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Every day Sleep better.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
So, yeah, absolutely.
We have thousands ofrecommendations for our users.
So, if you are going back to,you asked me, what will convert
the clinician?
So I think that the patientshould do that, but also the
clinician should be moreopen-minded.
For example, an averageclinician gets trained around 20
hours in nutrition.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
And that's nothing.
What is 20 hours?
That's a theme we've beencontinuing in here.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Reading a book is the 20 hours, yeah, yeah.
So I think that something aboutthe training of the clinician,
I think that also the perceptionabout a dietician is not as
good as it should be.
They are doing a great job.
So I think that there are a lotof things to change and
definitely the problem is thesystem.
I'm sure that you know thehotel and gym model Basically a
(09:09):
healthcare system like to fillthe hospital like a hotel and
fill the machine like a gym, sothe MRI should be full all the
time Instead of coming andsaying, no, I don't want to go
home and go to the gym, yeahWell we don't have.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I'll say two things to that.
First, I'll go back to yourpoint about training for
physicians.
So we've become really, reallybig advocates of the American
College of Lifestyle Medicine,because to us We'll be there
next week.
Right, we'll be there next weekat their hovers, but we think
that's like a fantastic bridgetool to allow traditional
provider organizations in theAmerican healthcare system to
(09:42):
say, okay, well, we need ourdoctors to understand the six
pillars you know, sleep, all thethings that your tracker you
know is monitoring, right,Embracing a care model around
that.
And then that leads me to mysecond point, which is we need
like we were talking aboutbefore we started is we have
sick care?
I mean, this hall is sick care,right, and we walked by a
hospital bed which is a littledisturbing to me.
(10:03):
I'm not going to lie, we don'thave health care, we don't.
We have all these differentpoint solutions, right, but
imagine we bring these togetherto your point and somebody comes
in and says I don't wantcardiometabolic syndrome anymore
.
You can't figure out how tochange that right now, but we
need to have an alternative forthat person.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I don't want to just be treated, I actually want to
right, and I feel like your toolis almost a tool for health
literacy to a certain extent,because there's a lot of that's
a really good point.
It's just something that somany people are lacking.
If you have something that youcan engage in, that you know
you're learning as you go right,it gets overwhelming to people
when they're trying to improve.
You know their current state,so you know.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah, also, the disease are not starting at the
age of 60 or 50.
Oh no, I know.
So if you have cardiovascularissues, if you will test your
LDL cholesterol or APOB earlyand will take the statin or
change your behavior, you have abetter chance not to have a
cardiovascular disease.
The same way is if you willmeasure your insulin early and
will see that it's spiked toomuch, you might be able to
(11:07):
manage it by nutrition and notinjecting insulin.
So there are so many things thatwe can do using prevention, but
there is no motivation for thehealthcare system to do it right
now, and I think that it's amindset.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
And hence why we're all about value-based care and
outcome-based care.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
It just has to be a movie.
It has to be a movie, yeah.
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