October 12, 2025 • 42 mins
Let me know your thoughts on the show and what topic you would like me to discuss next.
I In this episode, we delve into the hidden challenges that hinder the drive for success and how they affect men. Discover the importance of trusting over rescuing, as we discuss leadership transformation with world-class coach Lee Povey. Lee shares his journey from elite cycling to executive coaching, emphasising emotional intelligence and vulnerability. Key points include the impact of carrying the world on your shoulders, the significance of aligning for greatness, shifting from immature to mature masculinity, and building fulfilling relationships and leadership. Join us to learn how to lead a purposeful life and transform your leadership style.
Key moments in this episode:
02:18 A Life-Changing Crash: Vulnerability and Transformation
06:11 The Hero's Journey: From Rescuer to Mentor
18:12 The Role of Upbringing: Shaping Leadership
20:37 Toxic Masculinity and Anger
22:29 The Importance of Community for Men
25:04 Building Strong Inner Circles
26:28 The Value of Process Over Outcome
38:23 Final Thoughts and Encouragement
How to reach Lee:
Website: https://www.leepovey.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/leepoveycoaching/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@leepovey
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leepovey/
IG: https://www.instagram.com/leepovey/
Thanks for listening to the Revolutionary Man Podcast. For more information about our programs, please use the links below to learn more about us. It could be the step that changes your life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:03):
What if the drive to succeed is actually hiding
everything that's holding youback?
And how would your leadershipand your life transform if you
stopped rescuing and startedtrusting?
If you've ever felt that you'recarrying the world on your
shoulders while silentlydoubting yourself, this episode
might be for you.
So be sure to hit like andsubscribe and leave a review so
(00:24):
we can keep bringing you to thebold conversations that matter
most for men today.
And so with that, let's get onwith today's episode.
SPEAKER_00 (00:36):
The average man today is sleepwalking through
life.
Many never reaching their truepotential, let alone ever
crossing the finish line toliving a purposeful life.
Yet the hunger still exists,albeit buried amidst his
cluttered mind, misguidedbeliefs, and values that no
longer serve him.
It's time to align yourself forgreatness.
(00:58):
It's time to become arevolutionary man.
Stay strong, my brother.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05):
Welcome back to the show, my friends.
And before we took this break, Iposed a couple of powerful
questions for you.
Questions that speak to theheart of what so many
high-performing men wrestlewith.
And that is how much of ourleadership is real and how much
of it is a mask that we'velearned to wear.
Because we live in a world wherestrength is often confused with
silence and leadership withcontrol.
(01:26):
But today's guest believes thatthere's truly a better way, one
that embraces emotionalawareness, healthy challenge,
and of course, all seated androoted in deep trust.
And he knows that realleadership starts with leading
ourselves first.
And so to help us unpack this,I'm joined by Lee Polvey, he's a
world-class leadership coach,entrepreneur, and former elite
(01:47):
cycling coach, who's trainedOlympic champions, startup
founders, and mission-drivenCEOs.
And he leads men not just tolead with performance, but with
purpose, bringing emotionalintelligence, vulnerability, and
a strategy together in a waythat what truly transforms their
lives.
And so let's welcome Lee to theshow.
Welcome to the episode, myfriend.
(02:07):
How are things today?
SPEAKER_02 (02:09):
Hey, Alan.
Wonderful.
I just stepped off a planecoming back from doing some
go-kart racing in Portland.
So I'm in my happy place rightnow.
SPEAKER_01 (02:17):
Outstanding, outstanding.
I Leah here at the RevolutionaryMan, I believe that we are all
living our own version of ahero's journey.
And for yours, I'd like yes toyou to tell us about that death
and rebirth moment that trulychanged how you lead and live
life.
SPEAKER_02 (02:32):
Sure.
So many.
I listened to your intro and I'mlike, oh God, Alan, how do I
help here?
How do I keep up with thebreadth of what you've
introduced us to?
I think one of the most pivotalmoments for me was I crashed
really badly in 2010.
It was 10 days before theBritish National Championships.
This was when I lived in the UKstill.
(02:53):
I now live in California inAmerica.
I was a defending champion.
I was in the best shape of mylife.
I'd trained so hard and Icrashed in a race.
It was a silly little bumping ofshoulders.
The guy next to me lost control,crashed into me, and up in the
air we went.
And unbeknownst to me at thatmoment in time, I'd broken
(03:14):
pretty much every brain in myshoulder.
So I tried to get back up andrace.
I really wanted to race.
And luckily, one of my friendswas in the stand who's a doctor,
and he came rushing over and hewas like, You are not getting
back on your bike.
That was a bad fall.
I dislocated my shoulder, I putit back in there, and I was so
amped from the adrenaline.
I'm like, let's go.
And he was just physically stoodin front of me.
(03:35):
I remember embarrassing myselfby arguing with him quite
aggressively.
I want to race, get out of myway, I'm going to race.
And he's no, you're not.
Went to the hospital, gotX-rayed.
The doctor tested my mobilityand redislocated my shoulder.
I swore at him.
He ran away.
I had to put my shoulder back inmyself, had some x-rays.
(03:56):
They told me I hadn't brokenanything, which unfortunately
was incorrect.
I drove home from there with nopainkillers.
It's a four-hour drive bymyself.
Luckily, I had an automatic car,which is a little bit more
unusual for the UK then.
Went and saw the consultant thenext day in Brighton where I'm
from, did a CT scan, and it wasone of those calls where he
(04:17):
calls you and he says, You needto come in and we're going to
talk about this in person.
I'm like, oh no.
So yeah, broke pretty much everybone, broke four bones in my
shoulder, had to have tworeconstructive surgeries.
And it was the first time in mylife, Alan, that I fully
realized I was vulnerable and Ididn't know what to do with it.
I'd had crashes before then,never hurt myself.
(04:39):
I generally thought I wasunbreakable, at least on some
level.
And this was the first time I'mlike, oh God, I'm not just
breakable, but easily breakable.
And my mind was just as brokenas my body.
I'd been with a woman for fouryears.
Within a month, we were split upbecause I realized our
relationship only went when Iwas the hero and she was the
(05:00):
victim.
And I didn't want those kind ofrelationships anymore.
I needed room for my ownvulnerability.
First operation, I asked afriend to give me a lift to the
hostel.
And he said, Oh, just get a cab.
It's only a mile down the road.
And what neither of us realizedat the time was I was saying,
Can you please come and hold myhand?
I'm really scared.
(05:21):
And it took me a while to ittook me to get into the hostel
and being there to go, oh God,I'm terrified.
I've never had an operationbefore, I've never had an
anesthetic.
I don't know how this is goingto go.
I am scared, genuinely scared.
And at that point, I reallycouldn't use my arm.
What's this going to mean?
And I renegotiated a bunch of myfriendships and I realized not
(05:43):
just the friendships we created,but my role in creating those
and how my inability toexperience my own vulnerability,
I had disdain for it.
So my inability to experience itmeant that I people didn't know
how I felt and just assumed Iwas always okay.
So even when I was struggling,they couldn't tell that, and I
(06:06):
wasn't telling them.
SPEAKER_01 (06:08):
I really got that from preparing for today's
episode, reading some of yourblog and looking at the work
that you're doing.
And what really resonated withme, and especially hearing you
tell the tell your story, is howmany of us men do live exactly
the life that you're describing,where we have this facade and we
think that this is how it is,and we just don't realize that
(06:28):
it is a mask that we're wearinguntil life forces an adversity
in front of us, and then we haveto deal with it.
Mine came when I was 30 andended up by have losing
everything, got divorced from myhigh school sweetheart.
It was something I decided wouldnever happen.
And for you, your characterstarted to be revealed, wasn't
it?
But you realize that therelationship you were in, you're
(06:51):
talked about wasn't the rightkind of relationship, not just
the intimate one, but also withfamily and friends.
So let's talk about how thattransformation happened for you
and where that led you.
SPEAKER_02 (07:02):
Yeah.
It's so hard.
I'm still unpacking it now.
I'm 52, Alan, and I'm stilllearning so much now.
So recently I've discovered I'mboth autistic and dyslexic.
The dyslexia I've stronglysuspected, and people have told
me throughout my entire life, Icannot spell.
I struggle to find words.
(07:23):
We might even experience itduring this where there's a word
I want to use and I can't findit.
And it feels in the back of mybrain all these drawers are
being opened, looking for aword, and I can't find the word.
So I knew that I had someinteresting stuff around
language and learning, but Ididn't know about the autism.
So we talk about masks.
There was a mask there about howI fitted into society.
(07:44):
And I think because of schoolwas interesting for me, I was
either the best at something orthe worst.
So the message I got a lot atschool was you're exceptionally
gifted and you're lazy.
And I'm not at all lazy.
I just have certain limits towhere I need to rest and
recover.
And especially, I didn't knowhow to learn in the school
(08:06):
model.
So it was very tiring andchallenging for me.
So that's definitely a mask thatI've needed to unpeel as time is
going on.
I'm still learning about.
And the reason I bring that upis because it relates to how do
I speak to people, how do I geton with other human beings.
And because I had this kind ofmonkey on my back of I've got to
(08:28):
be smart because I was gettingthis message, you're really
smart, but you're lazy, and Iwas insecure about it.
I would create these one-uprelationships.
So this is what Terry Real, therelationship calls, coach calls
is one up, one-downrelationship.
So I would make myself better.
So I would be the hero.
And then I would search outpeople that I could rescue
because it made me feel goodabout myself.
(08:49):
And if I'm better than you, Imust be okay.
And even in therapy, I had agreat therapist as a young man
and men's groups.
I had this stuff reflected tome.
And it took me a long time toreally get that.
And it's very interesting.
The people I admire most in theworld are the people that do the
opposite of that and makeeverybody around them feel
(09:11):
better about themselves.
And that's still my journey.
That's I want to die on mydeathbed with people around me
going, You made me feel betterabout myself.
That's my challenge in life.
SPEAKER_01 (09:23):
Yeah, what a great challenge to have.
I think many of us struggle withthat as well.
So Lisa, kudos for you for beingso open and sharing that with
us.
And then you took thistransformation, this experience
and many more, I'm sure, in yourlife and used it to transform
the work that you're doingtoday.
And so now, as I said in theintro, you've worked with
Olympic athletes and you'vedelved with high, high
(09:46):
performing CEOs.
So you must have recognized someparallels that you've seen
between high performance sportsand let's say high performance
leadership in business.
And what would you say are someof those common parallels?
SPEAKER_02 (09:58):
Yeah.
So I started my career in sales,which tends to happen to bright
people that don't go ontofurther education.
What can I do?
Okay, I can speak to people.
I'm smart, I'll do sales.
So started in real estate,worked for a corporate company
for six years, then my own forsix years, then sold that to
become a cycling coach, as youmentioned.
(10:20):
And I made that into a properbusiness.
And at that time, most cyclingcoaches were amateur, it wasn't
professional, they werepart-time, they were doing other
jobs.
And I was like, no, this needsto be done properly.
And that led me to work intomany highly motivated, very
driven, purpose-driven,mission-driven people.
(10:42):
And then COVID came.
The velodrome that I was, bythis point, I was running the
Olympic development program forUSA cycling.
COVID came, the program got shutdown, the velodrome we trained
at was closed for 18 months, andit was another one of those big
pivot points in my life.
And I didn't know what to do.
I didn't know if I wanted tokeep being a cycling coach or
(11:03):
not.
I wanted, I knew there was abigger purpose to my life, and I
wasn't sure exactly what.
So I started running men'sgroups, started first with my
friendship group because we'reall struggling during COVID,
trying to figure out what itwas.
Some of us are suddenlyunemployed.
I went from working in theVelodram six days a week to
being at home with nothing todo.
So I started this men's groupvery shortly into that.
(11:25):
The guys, you have to do more ofthese.
This is super important work.
And then at the same time, Ilistened to a podcast on a
leadership coach.
My wife's a therapist.
I showed it to her.
We were watching the TV seriesBillions at the same time that
has a character called Wendy CoWendy Rhodes as a high
performance coach.
And we just looked at each otherand went, that's what I should
(11:46):
be doing.
And I thought to answer yourquestion, so I've got a very
long-winded way about it, but Iwill get there, I promise.
I thought that there was goingto be this big difference, and I
was going to have so much tolearn.
And there is a learning processto this, absolutely.
And it's a different type ofcoaching.
But I'd actually been trainingmyself to coach in a different
(12:06):
way from many of the sportscoaches already.
And I was much more looking atthe psychological side of it,
uh, the human side of it beyondthe sports performance and how
to inspire and motivate peoplerather than just here's your
training and the physiology ofit.
So I didn't realise everythingI'd done in my life until that
point had actually beenpreparing me for this career.
(12:27):
My own entrepreneurship had beenpreparing me for this career.
And while I definitely did a lotof training, the similarities
between a high-performing CEOstroke founder and a high
performing athlete areunbelievably close, which is why
you often see good athletesbecome founders and CEOs.
(12:48):
And I think, trying to thinknow, I think everybody I work
with has some kind of athleticbackground.
So there's just such thiscrossover between it's the ethos
of I want to do this better thaneverybody else.
And that's what gets them out ofbed.
At least in the beginning.
Then we can come to fulfillmentlater.
(13:09):
But to begin with, it's I wantto do something somebody else
can't do or is challenging, andthat internal drive to prove
something to yourself of I cando this differently.
SPEAKER_01 (13:20):
Yeah, I completely relate to that as well.
And it's just with some of themen that that work that I work
with in our group, andsimilarly, just learning and
watching from these other highperformance individuals.
And I would completely agree.
I think it's just wired a littlebit differently.
They're willing to do what mostpeople just won't do.
And I think that in order to bethe best or attempt to be the
(13:42):
best, you have to be willing toput yourself out there.
And I think those are such keythings.
I listen, I just started tohire, I hired a fitness coach
finally.
I'm 59 years old and says I cantry and keep doing this on
YouTube.
SPEAKER_02 (13:53):
I hope people are watching this on YouTube.
You look like you're bloody 40.
Come on out, man.
SPEAKER_01 (13:58):
Thanks, brother.
But the point being is I couldcontinue to do what I've always
done and not get any otherresults, or I can lean into it
and hire somebody to mentor andcoach and lead.
And I think that's thedifference between what the work
that you're doing and that andthose of us that choose to not
get involved and get somebody inthere.
And I think there's a danger.
(14:19):
And so you said you talk, you dosome men's work.
I think there's a bit of adanger.
I caught myself doing this.
I'm wondering if you did too inthe beginning, where you talked
a little earlier about this ideaof maybe rescuing people.
And we can't really rescuepeople.
Maybe we can give an opportunityto liberate them.
But I want to talk, I want youto give us your perspective on
what you feel are the dangers ofwhen we're trying to be this
(14:40):
rescuer versus then versus beinga mentor.
SPEAKER_02 (14:44):
Yeah, it's such a great question, Alan.
And it's an important onebecause many of us drawn to
these kinds of professions aredrawn with a noble cause, but
it's the boyhood cause of beingthe hero rather than the kind of
the mature masculinity of beingthe king.
And I rally against at themoment, we see a lot of press
about toxic masculinity, and Istruggle with that term because
(15:06):
there can be toxic effects ofimmature masculinity, but I'd
much rather we called itimmature masculinity than toxic
masculinity because immaturemasculinity says there's
somewhere for us to go.
We can grow up, we can learn, wecan adapt and change.
Whereas toxic is you're bad,you're broken, you're wrong.
So yeah, I I think I've driftedoff course slightly here.
(15:30):
Remind me of the question.
Let's see if I can actuallyanswer that one.
SPEAKER_01 (15:32):
Yeah, no, I think you're right on you're going
right on point there.
The idea was about how we startto do these things like
coaching, whether that's a inmen's work or other thing, and
maybe that we're in that boyhoodhero space where we're wanting
to rescue.
I'll rescue, I'll save you.
And then what ultimately happensis we realize that something has
to shift.
And so I just wanted to get yourperspective on that.
SPEAKER_02 (15:53):
Yeah, you get you can't.
So here's the first thing,right?
You can't rescue somebody else,they can only rescue themselves.
And you can be a coach, be ateacher, be a mentor, and
they're all different in theirown ways, but all of them, for
me, there's a showing up of I'mgonna be here for you, but I
can't do it for you.
And it's that adage of you canfish for somebody and always
(16:15):
reliant on you.
And there is that feeling of,oh, I'm a desirable person
because I help you.
And often the hero in the storyis desperately afraid of not
being needed.
And when I think back to myathletes when I was coaching
them, my job, I believed, was tocoach them to such a point that
(16:36):
they didn't need me.
Because the day of the Olympics,if I got food poisoning or got
run over on the way there orwhatever, their performance
can't be affected by me notbeing there.
They need to be able to performthe same whether I'm there or
not.
And that doesn't mean I don'thave value.
And this is where a lot ofcoaches and leaders get it wrong
because they think their valueis in what they do, their value
(16:58):
is in what they create and whatthey empower and how they teach.
So I love the model of I don'tfish for you, I teach you to
fish, and my job is to help youto be so good at fishing that
you don't need me anymore.
And guess what?
You'll still want me becauseyou'll still want those
conversations.
You'll still want to bounceideas, which is why Roger
Federer had a tennis coachbecause he still wanted somebody
(17:20):
to bounce ideas off of and totalk to.
And the higher up you get, theharder that is.
I specialize in the smartest,most brilliant founders.
That's my that's my area ofexcellence, is working with
these high performance teams andthese incredibly smart founders
who are struggling to findpeople that understand it and to
bounce these ideas off.
(17:41):
And it's not my job to tell themwhat to do, it's my job to help
them understand what it is thatthey really want to do and then
what's the best path for gettingthere.
SPEAKER_01 (17:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's that's a great, that'sa great point that you made
there about being able tounderstand where you're the
value that you're actuallybringing.
And and it takes a while.
And now we're spending a lot oftime speaking to this in terms
of coaching, but that's alsoreally important in our
relationships.
And so I want to just take youback a little bit further.
(18:11):
And your upbringing, your yourexperience of being really
growing up in an environmentwith a narcissistic father, I'm
sure shaped you into what youultimately became and are now
doing.
So talk a little bit about howthose past experiences have
really shaped and tried andtransformed you.
SPEAKER_02 (18:29):
Yeah.
Womkit, we look at mom and dadif we're lucky enough to have a
mom and dad, and they are ouridols of what a man and a woman
should be.
So we take on their traits andtheir behaviors because they are
literally role modeling to uswhat men and women are and what
the ideal version of men andwomen are, until we get old
(18:50):
enough, and then that spellbreaks, and we go, is this
really what we want?
And we're having outsideinfluences from teachers, from
school, from sports coaches,from media.
And now for kids, it's socialmedia.
And we get to that point we'retrying to figure out who we are.
So I got to that point prettyyoung, younger than most, and
(19:11):
realized I did not want to be myfather.
The problem is I didn't reallyknow what I wanted to be.
I looked at a lot of thestereotypical masculine stuff in
the media, and it part of itresonated, the high performance
part and the sports part.
And I still have problems withadmitting that I'm in pain when
I should and getting thephysical help I should.
(19:32):
I broke my ankle and didn't doanything about it for 18 months.
So that's still a journey for mebecause of that programming.
And I just think it's just sucha challenge for men, which is
why I run men's groups, tofigure out who am I as a man.
And interestingly, from my ownexperience with that, and I
(19:53):
joined men's groups very young.
I was like 21, I was theyoungest guy in my group by a
decade, easily.
My own journey was I realizedthat there is no man.
What is the man?
What is being a man?
And I see people answer it, anda lot of it that people answer
when they're on podcasts likethis, I just strongly disagree
with because the men that cometo my groups, they're all
(20:14):
different.
And we might have somesimilarities and some similar
experiences.
Like we struggle to really shareour emotions until we understand
how to, and until we find aplace we feel safe enough to,
and we feel like we're givenpermission, because typically
men are trained not toexperience our emotions as a
young man and boy.
(20:35):
We're told don't feel things,it's bad, don't be weak, don't
be a pussy.
All the homophobic and sexistslurs that go with that, like
the worst thing you could everbe is be feminine.
Uh, you can have some anger, butonly in a sports context, or
like a, or if somebody haswronged you in some way, then
it's okay.
And typically a lot of menstruggle with anger because they
(20:56):
think that means they have tohave a fight rather than I'm
frustrated.
What is this frustration tellingme?
And I had to relearn all ofthis.
Could have been trained out ofme societally by my parents.
And yeah, I had this dad thatwas a caricature of a man.
He was the most extreme.
He was large, he was aggressive.
Now, luckily, he never hit me,but I saw him hit other people,
(21:20):
and he was always inconfrontations.
He used to drive us to drive meto cycling events.
The only thing I did he wasinterested in.
Catching the school rugby teamnever watched me play rugby
once.
Swam for my county, neverwatched me swim once.
Cycling was his sport, that wasthe only thing he cared about.
Um, and he would drive us toraces and he would get into
confrontations with otherdrivers that he had created.
(21:42):
He'd create the situation wherethey're going to cut him off so
that then he could get angry.
And I'm watching all of this andabsorbing it as a young man and
then thinking, I don't want tobe that, but what do I want to
be?
And getting caught between thismedia portrayal of a man and
then what felt right for meinside as a human.
(22:02):
I I remember watching the movieDrive, which a popular movie,
Ryan Goslin spends the first 45minutes not speaking and
committing atrocious acts ofviolence, and it's this super
popular movie.
And I enjoyed the movie, butthen I'm looking at it from the
perspective of the maleprotagonist, and I'm thinking,
this is desperately sad.
This is a desperately disturbedyoung man.
(22:25):
And where is the space for him?
And this is what I see with men.
They just don't have this spaceto talk and to connect.
Yet human beings are designedto, and human beings are
designed to experience and feelemotion.
And we have let down men andwomen, but particularly men, in
their journey of learning bydismissing their emotions.
SPEAKER_01 (22:47):
I completely agree with that.
And I find the similar thingshappen in our group as well.
And I think, especially when yousee new members coming into the
circle and you know how theystruggle with being vulnerable
because they're not sure,because they're still ingrained
from a young age that well, if Isay the wrong thing, then I'm
either going to be teased orbanished, or wait, when's the
(23:08):
hazing ritual start?
And yeah, all of that stuff,right?
So it takes a while for becausewe don't we haven't been modeled
anything any different.
And so the challenge with Ithink that we find with that I
see with with men is justbreaking that mold.
And I see it with myself aswell, like just getting while
there's lots you we can learnfrom sports.
There are those parts of itwhere yes, I love in Canada, I
(23:31):
love hockey.
Yes, I get all excited when I'mwatching the game, and I'm
going, Why is the guy not goingin there and just crushing him
in the corner on the board?
Right.
But then in life, that's not howwe would respond to that
situation, right?
There's a different way toapproach that.
And so being around other men, Ithink, is really important to
(23:52):
help us learn and relearn themodel.
And there is no real definitionof it.
And I like the work that TerryPorter does with the man box and
really helping shape young men'sideas of what women are and
respect for themselves.
And so kudos to you forcontinuing to do men's work with
everything that you have on yourplate.
I really appreciate that.
SPEAKER_02 (24:13):
I think it's really important and I'm a bit stuck,
Alan, because I think there's amuch larger movement that's
needed.
And I have a blueprint in mymind and somewhat on paper, and
I just don't know how Iaccomplish it by myself.
I need other people toaccomplish it.
And I think there's anopportunity to create something
that is literally a home for menwhere men can come and learn and
(24:35):
be in groups and find communitybecause what we're seeing is the
opposite.
Men are becoming much morelonely.
Women are much better atcreating and keeping
relationships than men are.
And then you have thisgeneration of young men that are
failing because society isn'tmeeting them where they're at.
And they're only going to becomeangrier, more upset, more
(24:56):
lonely, more unsatisfied andunfulfilled.
And we I feel like society needsto meet that right now.
SPEAKER_01 (25:02):
Yeah, I completely agree with that as well.
I think what we're we'restarting to really get into and
touch on is this idea of havinga strong inner circle, whether
that's through a men's work oreven if you're not involved in
men's work, but having a stronginner circle.
So basically building yourtribe.
And so why do you think that'sso important?
And how can someone who'slooking for that can start to
(25:24):
build a tribe and an innercircle?
SPEAKER_02 (25:26):
Yeah, great question.
Well, human beings are designedto be community animals.
That's one of the reasons wewere so successful, because we
were better than any otheranimal at communicating.
We developed speech.
Um, through speech, we connectedthrough stories.
So it's important for us to beable to share our stories and
have stories.
That is how human beingsconnect.
(25:48):
And if we go back ancient tribaltimes, the men would have gone
and hunt and then they wouldhave sat around and talked and
communicated with each other.
And now that's been skewed intothis competition thing where we
think we've got to be incompetition with each other.
And one of the great learningsfrom my life, being in
(26:09):
competition with others nevergave me fulfillment.
Didn't matter what I won, itdidn't give me fulfillment.
The only person I want to be incompetition with these days is
myself.
And not even in competition, Ijust strive to be a better
version of myself.
That's my challenge, that's mydriver, that's what motivates
me.
And I've started a new sport, asI mentioned earlier, go-kart
(26:31):
racing two, three years ago.
And being able to step into thisdifferently in cycling, there
was that moment after I crashedwhere I realized I have to enjoy
cycling for cycling's sake, andI have to enjoy the process.
And I did enjoy cycling muchmore, and actually was more
successful after I broke myshoulder than before it, which
is crazy, but I was because Ilent much more into the process.
(26:54):
And this is what I work withpeople on, which is the process
is much more important than theoutcome.
The outcome is the byproduct ofthe process, and we get hooked
on competition, and then what wefind in society is we believe
that to win there must belosers.
And I just don't believe thatanymore.
The winning is about what Iaccomplished for myself and how
I feel about myself.
It's not about any kind ofexternal scoreboard.
(27:15):
And don't get me wrong, like insports, there is a scoreboard of
we go to the Olympics, we do thetrack cycling of the Olympics,
one person wins that event.
But if I feel I shut up as thebest version of myself and
somebody else beat me becausethey were better than me, I'm
going to walk away from thatfeeling truly fulfilled.
And it's much easier in businessbecause this there doesn't need
(27:36):
to be winners and losers inbusiness.
There's so much opportunity,there's so much available that
pretty much all of us can winand lift each other up.
And we need to get rid of thisnotion that somebody else needs
to fail for me to win.
And you see this when newcategories are created and
companies come in with newideas, other companies come up
around them and suddenly there'sa market for this thing that
(27:58):
didn't exist before.
So we see it all the time.
It's just more and moreavailable if we're willing to
support each other.
So I definitely come from thatthought that we achieve a lot
more in life by being incommunity.
So to come back to the originalquestion about why it is so
important.
Human beings are designed to bein community.
And we can show that lonelinessis a killer.
(28:19):
Loneliness takes years off ofyour life.
You're more likely to getserious illnesses and diseases
if you're lonely.
Human connectivity is soimportant.
And we have to be intentionalabout it because our world is
now not set up for it.
We think it is because of socialmedia.
And hey, I've got 10,000connections on LinkedIn.
How many of them do I know?
(28:40):
How many of them do I spendactual time with?
So I've become very intentionalabout making sure I spend time
with people.
I have my own personal men'sgroup every Wednesday morning.
I was go-kutting till 10 o'clocklast night.
By the time I got back, I'deaten and got to bed at 12
o'clock.
I got up at 6.20 to join mypersonal men's group, 6.40 this
morning, because that's howimportant it is to me.
(29:00):
So that I have regular catch-upcalls with friends, and I'm
maybe the autism.
I don't know, but I'm such astickler that I they are all
regimented and they are allritualized.
Every other Monday, I have twoguys that I catch up with.
Once a month, I have anotherfriend that I catch up with, and
I have various friends like thatwhere we don't need to think
about it.
It's in our schedule and it'sdone.
(29:22):
I have a group of friends herelocally in Long Beach that we
get together for dinner once amonth.
And I just have all of thesedifferent touch points and ways
of being in connection withpeople.
I have friends at the go-karttrack.
Me and my wife are just about tostart pickleball.
Part of why I want to do that isbecause I want to spend more
time with human beings.
Yes.
And it's so fascinating, Alan,that when I was a cycling coach
(29:43):
and I spent a lot of time aroundother human beings, I thought I
didn't like human beings.
And what I've discovered is thatI have a limit, an energy limit
for how much I can spend aroundpeople.
And as long as I don't go overthat, I adore and cherish my.
Time with humans.
So I'm just much moreintentional about it now.
SPEAKER_01 (30:03):
Well, that's a great learning, absolutely, when you
realize when to step back andhow much to lean into and really
participate in that.
Because I think that's also keyfor lots of us, right?
To being, we tend to re notremember or realize how we get
our energy and that juicehappens.
And so I like the idea of howyou put some structure into your
(30:25):
life.
One of the things that one ofthe things that we did with my
wife and I was that we foundthat we weren't connecting as
deeply as we should.
And so we set up this processwhere the second Friday of the
month is her day to plan a datenight and the fourth is my day.
And the rules are is thatwhatever that individual person,
whatever they pick, the otherone has to go along with it.
(30:45):
And it needs to be a little morethan just dinner and a movie.
It's just to go and explore andtry some different things,
really get a betterunderstanding of each other's
interests.
And I can't get over how I gottatell you how much we've learned
about each other.
And we've been married for 20years now.
And this is the things thatyou've you'll probably just
taken for granted, you didn'tpay attention to.
(31:08):
And so it's great to hear thatyou're doing that in even a
bigger, broader perspective withfamily and friends and others.
And I think that is just that'sjust awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (31:18):
I've realized that traveling is very important to
me.
And I only just recently I'veknown it for a while, but only
just recently I've had theepiphany.
I think it's because when Itravel, I don't have to mask my
autism in any way because nobodyhas any expectation of me.
I mean, I mean my wife does, butshe understands me pretty well.
So I can just be utterly myselfwithout worrying about being too
(31:40):
direct or offending anybody, ormy bright sneakers offending
somebody.
So I travel is very important tome.
I love what you do there withyour wife.
I think me and Sarah might needto incorporate some of that if
we pick these different dateideas.
So we have a date everyWednesday night, just after this
podcast.
Now I'm going for a meal with mywife, and we have what we call a
state of the union every week.
(32:02):
And I got this from a podcast,and it was actually another
well-renowned leader who used todo this with his wife and talked
about how this affected hisleadership.
And I completely agree with himbecause the stability of your
home life makes a hugedifference.
But they we have this date, andthere's a structure to the date.
We follow a process, so it'slike the business of the
(32:23):
relationship.
Is there any things we need todo?
Is there any chores we need toget sorted going through that
process?
Then there's what are we lookingforward to?
What things do we need to do?
Then there's an appreciationsection.
We've got to find three to fivethings that we want to
appreciate, appreciate eachother for that week.
And then the last bit is one ortwo gripes or things that we
(32:44):
would like to discuss with eachother.
They're a little bit morecharged.
And it's been wonderful for ourrelationship.
I think it's so helpful.
And because you start with theappreciation, by the time you
get to the gripes, you're reallyconnected with each other.
And I find that you come to themwith a lot more empathy.
SPEAKER_01 (33:02):
Love that.
Love that.
Love that.
Okay.
So we've already talked aboutwell, there's lot there's lots
of similarities and parallelswith high performance athletes
and high performance CEOs andthat, but you must have also
come across maybe there'ssomething that does hold them
back.
And so, how do you help men,high-performing men who are
struggling with this one thingthat may be holding them back?
(33:25):
And is there something therethat you can tell us about?
SPEAKER_02 (33:28):
Yeah, we've already touched on it.
Hope I'm saying that correctlytransgenically.
And that is the people that Iwork with are very often the
smartest or most capable personin the room.
And how does that hold themback, you might ask?
It holds them back because theycan't trust others to do it.
So they have to do itthemselves.
So I'm usually called in whenyour company is between 20 and
(33:51):
50 people, maybe as much as 100,depending on the business.
And you, the owner, founder, andCEO, is the person holding the
company back because you can'tempower other people to do it.
So you rescue them, you take itoff them, you do it better than
them.
And what you constantly createis this feeling of they are
(34:11):
lesser than you.
And you're teaching them thatthey're lesser than you, because
you keep going, don't worry,I'll do that, I'll take that off
your or you know what, I'll justyou're not doing it right.
Let me do it properly.
And it holds scaling companiesback and it really gets in the
way.
So my job is to help that personcome to terms with themselves,
(34:32):
their need for things to beperfect, their need for things
to be done their way.
And typically the deeper-seatedissue and the thing getting in a
way is their inability to trustthemselves to be okay.
And it's their inability to livethrough the discomfort of
somebody else not doing it howthey would do it.
(34:52):
And while we're on that, I mightas well touch on parenting
because it's this is what I seeoften with parents as well, and
something we work a lot on in mymen's group is you want to be a
really good parent, you have tobe able to be comfortable with
your discomfort of thediscomfort that your child is
going through.
And that sounds a bitcomplicated, so I'll just
explain it again.
You are going to watch yourchild go through discomfort.
(35:15):
That discomfort is typicallygood for them because without
it, they don't developresistance, sorry, resilience,
and they don't develop theability to be able to do things
and to think for themselves.
If you rescue them, you areactually doing them a massive
disservice.
Exactly the same in leadership.
The more we rescue somebody, themore we actually hold them back.
We need to be comfortable withwe're going to watch some
(35:37):
failure and we're going to watchpeople in discomfort going, I
don't know how to do this, andI'm stuck, and we're going to
go, it's okay, you figure itout.
Or why don't you try this andgive them little nudges and
suggestions, but we don't takeit from them.
And I was listening to a podcastlast night.
I really like the work of AdamGrant, psych organizational
psychologist.
And he has some great guests,and I can't remember the guest
(35:58):
name, I'm embarrassed to say,but she's just written a book on
parenting.
And one of the worst things aparent can do is take things off
of their child, do it for them,instead of allowing them to do
it and to learn and to grow andto develop that resilience and
that trust in themselves thatthey will be okay even when
things aren't going well.
SPEAKER_01 (36:20):
Yeah, what a great way to put that and really bring
business, the idea that of doingthat in business to really hit
home.
Excuse the pun, that to help usto be better fathers and
leaders.
Really before we wrap up.
SPEAKER_02 (36:33):
It's all the same, Alan, right?
Sorry, mate.
It's all the same.
I often say to my leaders, and Idon't want this to sound
patronizing because it's notmeant like this, see your team
like children, and not from thepoint of view that they're
stupid and capable, but from thepoint of view it's your job to
develop and grow them, just likeit's your job to do that for
your children and support them.
And like I said about myathletes, I believe true great
(36:59):
leadership is you are supportingsomebody to take your job.
That's what you should want forthem.
Oh, and if they don't take yourjob, they go and do whatever it
is they want somewhere else.
But you are enabling them to bethe absolute best version of
themselves because your companywill benefit from that while
they're with you.
And if they go on to somethingelse, all they're ever going to
do is talk about what an amazingleader you are and tell
(37:20):
everybody that they meet thatyou should go and work with this
guy because he's incredible, oryou should go and work with this
woman because she's incredible.
It's just a fantastic advert foryour business, too.
SPEAKER_01 (37:30):
Completely agree.
I was just thinking about aprogram I was developing for
five people that report to meright now.
And as I look at a transitionthrough my career, is to prepare
them for they may it if any ofthem are interested in sitting
in my chair.
Whether they're actually goingto do that or not, it wasn't the
point of the program.
(37:50):
The point of the program is todevelop them and help shape them
so that they can be readyregardless of what ends up, the
ultimate outcome comes for them.
And I think that's just soimportant.
And I think what you're just dubdovetails and what you were just
saying, and really leading anddeveloping people, whether
that's through high performanceindividuals or somebody brand
(38:13):
new into an organization, justgiven that that playing field,
that structure that allows themto grow and to and evolve as
humans.
SPEAKER_02 (38:38):
Only you can do it.
Nobody can do it for you.
There are many men's groups outthere.
Anyone's very welcome to reachout to me and have a
conversation with me.
Doesn't mean you have to workwith me.
I'll happily talk to you aboutmy experiences and give you any
advice I can about what is goingto help you get to where you
want to get to.
The first part is thatrecognition, Alan, of I'm not
(38:59):
happy.
And I have two types of clients.
So I have the high-performingfounder, and then I have the
middle-aged man who has it alland is not happy.
And he can't figure out why he'snot happy.
I write a post about theAmerican dream that I'm going to
release next week.
And it's because we've been soldthis dream of if you are
successful, I've seenfinancially successful, have a
(39:19):
big house and cute kids, you'vewon.
But that doesn't bringfulfillment.
That's just an achievement.
Fulfillment is something verydifferent.
So I work with people andfiguring out once they've got
that, what's my fulfillment?
Once they've got a milliondollars, a billion dollars,
what's my fulfillment?
So I think what's one greatpiece of it's not about you.
(39:42):
I think if you can just keepremembering everything that is
happening in the world that youare taking personal offense to
and getting frustrated about isabsolutely not about you.
It's typically about the otherperson.
Life becomes a lot easierbecause you have more empathy.
So you look at the other person.
I wonder what's going on forthem why they're giving me bad
(40:02):
service today or they cut me offin their car.
And it allows you to be a lotless stressed and a lot more
thoughtful.
And when we don't take thingspersonally, we don't end up
fighting the world.
And I see a lot of men fightingthe world, like taking personal
upfront about things that arejust not about them.
So I think that's a great one totake away.
If you can trust everybody'sdoing the best they can with the
(40:23):
skill set they have, might be anundeveloped skill set, but
they're doing the best they canwith it.
And you can truly believe that.
And it's not about you.
It's much easier to have empathyand have a far less stressful
life.
SPEAKER_01 (40:37):
Absolutely.
I just want to say thank you forspending time with us today and
sharing your wisdom onleadership, emotional mastery,
and what it really means to leadwith integrity.
And so your journey from eliteathletics to executive coaching
has really given us somepowerful models for us to show
up better fully as men and asleaders and as fathers.
And so if anybody's interestedin participating in your
(40:58):
programs and getting a hold ofyou, what's the best way for
them to do that?
SPEAKER_02 (41:02):
Thank you, Alan.
I make it super simple.
So I'm Lee Povy on everything.
My websites, LeePovy.com,LeePovy on Instagram, LinkedIn,
and Facebook.
I'm most active on LinkedIn.
Go to my website, sign up for mynewsletter.
I am doing my best to shareanything I can every week that
has some kind of impact that isso important to me.
(41:24):
I am looking to provide thementorship for men and women,
and I like working with womenjust as much as men, that I
didn't receive as a young man.
And that's how I'm healing thatpart of myself is I am out there
hoping that I can provide a pathfor other people to not have to
go through what I went through.
SPEAKER_01 (41:44):
I love that.
So I'm going to make sure today,in the show notes for today's
episode, that everywhere thatyou're found on social media and
on the internet, that people getan opportunity to find you.
And as we get ready to closetoday, I also want to throw a
challenge to our listenerstoday.
And are you leading from beliefor are you leading from fear?
And so if you're ready to leadyour life and your family and
your mission with greaterclarity and conviction, then
(42:05):
join me and take our freeintegrity challenge.
Just go to members.net and startyour journey today.
And let's get after it.
With that, thank you so much.
Lee, once again, reallyappreciated having you on the
show.
SPEAKER_02 (42:17):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (42:18):
It's been wonderful, and thank you for listening to
the Revolutionary Man podcast.
Are you ready to own yourdestiny?
To become more the man you aredestined to be?
(42:40):
Join the Brotherhood that is TheAwakened Man at
theawakendman.net and startforging a new destiny today.
What if the drive to succeed is actually hiding
everything that's holding youback?
And how would your leadershipand your life transform if you
stopped rescuing and startedtrusting?
If you've ever felt that you'recarrying the world on your
shoulders while silentlydoubting yourself, this episode
might be for you.
So be sure to hit like andsubscribe and leave a review so
(00:24):
we can keep bringing you to thebold conversations that matter
most for men today.
And so with that, let's get onwith today's episode.
SPEAKER_00 (00:36):
The average man today is sleepwalking through
life.
Many never reaching their truepotential, let alone ever
crossing the finish line toliving a purposeful life.
Yet the hunger still exists,albeit buried amidst his
cluttered mind, misguidedbeliefs, and values that no
longer serve him.
It's time to align yourself forgreatness.
(00:58):
It's time to become arevolutionary man.
Stay strong, my brother.
SPEAKER_01 (01:05):
Welcome back to the show, my friends.
And before we took this break, Iposed a couple of powerful
questions for you.
Questions that speak to theheart of what so many
high-performing men wrestlewith.
And that is how much of ourleadership is real and how much
of it is a mask that we'velearned to wear.
Because we live in a world wherestrength is often confused with
silence and leadership withcontrol.
(01:26):
But today's guest believes thatthere's truly a better way, one
that embraces emotionalawareness, healthy challenge,
and of course, all seated androoted in deep trust.
And he knows that realleadership starts with leading
ourselves first.
And so to help us unpack this,I'm joined by Lee Polvey, he's a
world-class leadership coach,entrepreneur, and former elite
(01:47):
cycling coach, who's trainedOlympic champions, startup
founders, and mission-drivenCEOs.
And he leads men not just tolead with performance, but with
purpose, bringing emotionalintelligence, vulnerability, and
a strategy together in a waythat what truly transforms their
lives.
And so let's welcome Lee to theshow.
Welcome to the episode, myfriend.
(02:07):
How are things today?
SPEAKER_02 (02:09):
Hey, Alan.
Wonderful.
I just stepped off a planecoming back from doing some
go-kart racing in Portland.
So I'm in my happy place rightnow.
SPEAKER_01 (02:17):
Outstanding, outstanding.
I Leah here at the RevolutionaryMan, I believe that we are all
living our own version of ahero's journey.
And for yours, I'd like yes toyou to tell us about that death
and rebirth moment that trulychanged how you lead and live
life.
SPEAKER_02 (02:32):
Sure.
So many.
I listened to your intro and I'mlike, oh God, Alan, how do I
help here?
How do I keep up with thebreadth of what you've
introduced us to?
I think one of the most pivotalmoments for me was I crashed
really badly in 2010.
It was 10 days before theBritish National Championships.
This was when I lived in the UKstill.
(02:53):
I now live in California inAmerica.
I was a defending champion.
I was in the best shape of mylife.
I'd trained so hard and Icrashed in a race.
It was a silly little bumping ofshoulders.
The guy next to me lost control,crashed into me, and up in the
air we went.
And unbeknownst to me at thatmoment in time, I'd broken
(03:14):
pretty much every brain in myshoulder.
So I tried to get back up andrace.
I really wanted to race.
And luckily, one of my friendswas in the stand who's a doctor,
and he came rushing over and hewas like, You are not getting
back on your bike.
That was a bad fall.
I dislocated my shoulder, I putit back in there, and I was so
amped from the adrenaline.
I'm like, let's go.
And he was just physically stoodin front of me.
(03:35):
I remember embarrassing myselfby arguing with him quite
aggressively.
I want to race, get out of myway, I'm going to race.
And he's no, you're not.
Went to the hospital, gotX-rayed.
The doctor tested my mobilityand redislocated my shoulder.
I swore at him.
He ran away.
I had to put my shoulder back inmyself, had some x-rays.
(03:56):
They told me I hadn't brokenanything, which unfortunately
was incorrect.
I drove home from there with nopainkillers.
It's a four-hour drive bymyself.
Luckily, I had an automatic car,which is a little bit more
unusual for the UK then.
Went and saw the consultant thenext day in Brighton where I'm
from, did a CT scan, and it wasone of those calls where he
(04:17):
calls you and he says, You needto come in and we're going to
talk about this in person.
I'm like, oh no.
So yeah, broke pretty much everybone, broke four bones in my
shoulder, had to have tworeconstructive surgeries.
And it was the first time in mylife, Alan, that I fully
realized I was vulnerable and Ididn't know what to do with it.
I'd had crashes before then,never hurt myself.
(04:39):
I generally thought I wasunbreakable, at least on some
level.
And this was the first time I'mlike, oh God, I'm not just
breakable, but easily breakable.
And my mind was just as brokenas my body.
I'd been with a woman for fouryears.
Within a month, we were split upbecause I realized our
relationship only went when Iwas the hero and she was the
(05:00):
victim.
And I didn't want those kind ofrelationships anymore.
I needed room for my ownvulnerability.
First operation, I asked afriend to give me a lift to the
hostel.
And he said, Oh, just get a cab.
It's only a mile down the road.
And what neither of us realizedat the time was I was saying,
Can you please come and hold myhand?
I'm really scared.
(05:21):
And it took me a while to ittook me to get into the hostel
and being there to go, oh God,I'm terrified.
I've never had an operationbefore, I've never had an
anesthetic.
I don't know how this is goingto go.
I am scared, genuinely scared.
And at that point, I reallycouldn't use my arm.
What's this going to mean?
And I renegotiated a bunch of myfriendships and I realized not
(05:43):
just the friendships we created,but my role in creating those
and how my inability toexperience my own vulnerability,
I had disdain for it.
So my inability to experience itmeant that I people didn't know
how I felt and just assumed Iwas always okay.
So even when I was struggling,they couldn't tell that, and I
(06:06):
wasn't telling them.
SPEAKER_01 (06:08):
I really got that from preparing for today's
episode, reading some of yourblog and looking at the work
that you're doing.
And what really resonated withme, and especially hearing you
tell the tell your story, is howmany of us men do live exactly
the life that you're describing,where we have this facade and we
think that this is how it is,and we just don't realize that
(06:28):
it is a mask that we're wearinguntil life forces an adversity
in front of us, and then we haveto deal with it.
Mine came when I was 30 andended up by have losing
everything, got divorced from myhigh school sweetheart.
It was something I decided wouldnever happen.
And for you, your characterstarted to be revealed, wasn't
it?
But you realize that therelationship you were in, you're
(06:51):
talked about wasn't the rightkind of relationship, not just
the intimate one, but also withfamily and friends.
So let's talk about how thattransformation happened for you
and where that led you.
SPEAKER_02 (07:02):
Yeah.
It's so hard.
I'm still unpacking it now.
I'm 52, Alan, and I'm stilllearning so much now.
So recently I've discovered I'mboth autistic and dyslexic.
The dyslexia I've stronglysuspected, and people have told
me throughout my entire life, Icannot spell.
I struggle to find words.
(07:23):
We might even experience itduring this where there's a word
I want to use and I can't findit.
And it feels in the back of mybrain all these drawers are
being opened, looking for aword, and I can't find the word.
So I knew that I had someinteresting stuff around
language and learning, but Ididn't know about the autism.
So we talk about masks.
There was a mask there about howI fitted into society.
(07:44):
And I think because of schoolwas interesting for me, I was
either the best at something orthe worst.
So the message I got a lot atschool was you're exceptionally
gifted and you're lazy.
And I'm not at all lazy.
I just have certain limits towhere I need to rest and
recover.
And especially, I didn't knowhow to learn in the school
(08:06):
model.
So it was very tiring andchallenging for me.
So that's definitely a mask thatI've needed to unpeel as time is
going on.
I'm still learning about.
And the reason I bring that upis because it relates to how do
I speak to people, how do I geton with other human beings.
And because I had this kind ofmonkey on my back of I've got to
(08:28):
be smart because I was gettingthis message, you're really
smart, but you're lazy, and Iwas insecure about it.
I would create these one-uprelationships.
So this is what Terry Real, therelationship calls, coach calls
is one up, one-downrelationship.
So I would make myself better.
So I would be the hero.
And then I would search outpeople that I could rescue
because it made me feel goodabout myself.
(08:49):
And if I'm better than you, Imust be okay.
And even in therapy, I had agreat therapist as a young man
and men's groups.
I had this stuff reflected tome.
And it took me a long time toreally get that.
And it's very interesting.
The people I admire most in theworld are the people that do the
opposite of that and makeeverybody around them feel
(09:11):
better about themselves.
And that's still my journey.
That's I want to die on mydeathbed with people around me
going, You made me feel betterabout myself.
That's my challenge in life.
SPEAKER_01 (09:23):
Yeah, what a great challenge to have.
I think many of us struggle withthat as well.
So Lisa, kudos for you for beingso open and sharing that with
us.
And then you took thistransformation, this experience
and many more, I'm sure, in yourlife and used it to transform
the work that you're doingtoday.
And so now, as I said in theintro, you've worked with
Olympic athletes and you'vedelved with high, high
(09:46):
performing CEOs.
So you must have recognized someparallels that you've seen
between high performance sportsand let's say high performance
leadership in business.
And what would you say are someof those common parallels?
SPEAKER_02 (09:58):
Yeah.
So I started my career in sales,which tends to happen to bright
people that don't go ontofurther education.
What can I do?
Okay, I can speak to people.
I'm smart, I'll do sales.
So started in real estate,worked for a corporate company
for six years, then my own forsix years, then sold that to
become a cycling coach, as youmentioned.
(10:20):
And I made that into a properbusiness.
And at that time, most cyclingcoaches were amateur, it wasn't
professional, they werepart-time, they were doing other
jobs.
And I was like, no, this needsto be done properly.
And that led me to work intomany highly motivated, very
driven, purpose-driven,mission-driven people.
(10:42):
And then COVID came.
The velodrome that I was, bythis point, I was running the
Olympic development program forUSA cycling.
COVID came, the program got shutdown, the velodrome we trained
at was closed for 18 months, andit was another one of those big
pivot points in my life.
And I didn't know what to do.
I didn't know if I wanted tokeep being a cycling coach or
(11:03):
not.
I wanted, I knew there was abigger purpose to my life, and I
wasn't sure exactly what.
So I started running men'sgroups, started first with my
friendship group because we'reall struggling during COVID,
trying to figure out what itwas.
Some of us are suddenlyunemployed.
I went from working in theVelodram six days a week to
being at home with nothing todo.
So I started this men's groupvery shortly into that.
(11:25):
The guys, you have to do more ofthese.
This is super important work.
And then at the same time, Ilistened to a podcast on a
leadership coach.
My wife's a therapist.
I showed it to her.
We were watching the TV seriesBillions at the same time that
has a character called Wendy CoWendy Rhodes as a high
performance coach.
And we just looked at each otherand went, that's what I should
(11:46):
be doing.
And I thought to answer yourquestion, so I've got a very
long-winded way about it, but Iwill get there, I promise.
I thought that there was goingto be this big difference, and I
was going to have so much tolearn.
And there is a learning processto this, absolutely.
And it's a different type ofcoaching.
But I'd actually been trainingmyself to coach in a different
(12:06):
way from many of the sportscoaches already.
And I was much more looking atthe psychological side of it,
uh, the human side of it beyondthe sports performance and how
to inspire and motivate peoplerather than just here's your
training and the physiology ofit.
So I didn't realise everythingI'd done in my life until that
point had actually beenpreparing me for this career.
(12:27):
My own entrepreneurship had beenpreparing me for this career.
And while I definitely did a lotof training, the similarities
between a high-performing CEOstroke founder and a high
performing athlete areunbelievably close, which is why
you often see good athletesbecome founders and CEOs.
(12:48):
And I think, trying to thinknow, I think everybody I work
with has some kind of athleticbackground.
So there's just such thiscrossover between it's the ethos
of I want to do this better thaneverybody else.
And that's what gets them out ofbed.
At least in the beginning.
Then we can come to fulfillmentlater.
(13:09):
But to begin with, it's I wantto do something somebody else
can't do or is challenging, andthat internal drive to prove
something to yourself of I cando this differently.
SPEAKER_01 (13:20):
Yeah, I completely relate to that as well.
And it's just with some of themen that that work that I work
with in our group, andsimilarly, just learning and
watching from these other highperformance individuals.
And I would completely agree.
I think it's just wired a littlebit differently.
They're willing to do what mostpeople just won't do.
And I think that in order to bethe best or attempt to be the
(13:42):
best, you have to be willing toput yourself out there.
And I think those are such keythings.
I listen, I just started tohire, I hired a fitness coach
finally.
I'm 59 years old and says I cantry and keep doing this on
YouTube.
SPEAKER_02 (13:53):
I hope people are watching this on YouTube.
You look like you're bloody 40.
Come on out, man.
SPEAKER_01 (13:58):
Thanks, brother.
But the point being is I couldcontinue to do what I've always
done and not get any otherresults, or I can lean into it
and hire somebody to mentor andcoach and lead.
And I think that's thedifference between what the work
that you're doing and that andthose of us that choose to not
get involved and get somebody inthere.
And I think there's a danger.
(14:19):
And so you said you talk, you dosome men's work.
I think there's a bit of adanger.
I caught myself doing this.
I'm wondering if you did too inthe beginning, where you talked
a little earlier about this ideaof maybe rescuing people.
And we can't really rescuepeople.
Maybe we can give an opportunityto liberate them.
But I want to talk, I want youto give us your perspective on
what you feel are the dangers ofwhen we're trying to be this
(14:40):
rescuer versus then versus beinga mentor.
SPEAKER_02 (14:44):
Yeah, it's such a great question, Alan.
And it's an important onebecause many of us drawn to
these kinds of professions aredrawn with a noble cause, but
it's the boyhood cause of beingthe hero rather than the kind of
the mature masculinity of beingthe king.
And I rally against at themoment, we see a lot of press
about toxic masculinity, and Istruggle with that term because
(15:06):
there can be toxic effects ofimmature masculinity, but I'd
much rather we called itimmature masculinity than toxic
masculinity because immaturemasculinity says there's
somewhere for us to go.
We can grow up, we can learn, wecan adapt and change.
Whereas toxic is you're bad,you're broken, you're wrong.
So yeah, I I think I've driftedoff course slightly here.
(15:30):
Remind me of the question.
Let's see if I can actuallyanswer that one.
SPEAKER_01 (15:32):
Yeah, no, I think you're right on you're going
right on point there.
The idea was about how we startto do these things like
coaching, whether that's a inmen's work or other thing, and
maybe that we're in that boyhoodhero space where we're wanting
to rescue.
I'll rescue, I'll save you.
And then what ultimately happensis we realize that something has
to shift.
And so I just wanted to get yourperspective on that.
SPEAKER_02 (15:53):
Yeah, you get you can't.
So here's the first thing,right?
You can't rescue somebody else,they can only rescue themselves.
And you can be a coach, be ateacher, be a mentor, and
they're all different in theirown ways, but all of them, for
me, there's a showing up of I'mgonna be here for you, but I
can't do it for you.
And it's that adage of you canfish for somebody and always
(16:15):
reliant on you.
And there is that feeling of,oh, I'm a desirable person
because I help you.
And often the hero in the storyis desperately afraid of not
being needed.
And when I think back to myathletes when I was coaching
them, my job, I believed, was tocoach them to such a point that
(16:36):
they didn't need me.
Because the day of the Olympics,if I got food poisoning or got
run over on the way there orwhatever, their performance
can't be affected by me notbeing there.
They need to be able to performthe same whether I'm there or
not.
And that doesn't mean I don'thave value.
And this is where a lot ofcoaches and leaders get it wrong
because they think their valueis in what they do, their value
(16:58):
is in what they create and whatthey empower and how they teach.
So I love the model of I don'tfish for you, I teach you to
fish, and my job is to help youto be so good at fishing that
you don't need me anymore.
And guess what?
You'll still want me becauseyou'll still want those
conversations.
You'll still want to bounceideas, which is why Roger
Federer had a tennis coachbecause he still wanted somebody
(17:20):
to bounce ideas off of and totalk to.
And the higher up you get, theharder that is.
I specialize in the smartest,most brilliant founders.
That's my that's my area ofexcellence, is working with
these high performance teams andthese incredibly smart founders
who are struggling to findpeople that understand it and to
bounce these ideas off.
(17:41):
And it's not my job to tell themwhat to do, it's my job to help
them understand what it is thatthey really want to do and then
what's the best path for gettingthere.
SPEAKER_01 (17:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's that's a great, that'sa great point that you made
there about being able tounderstand where you're the
value that you're actuallybringing.
And and it takes a while.
And now we're spending a lot oftime speaking to this in terms
of coaching, but that's alsoreally important in our
relationships.
And so I want to just take youback a little bit further.
(18:11):
And your upbringing, your yourexperience of being really
growing up in an environmentwith a narcissistic father, I'm
sure shaped you into what youultimately became and are now
doing.
So talk a little bit about howthose past experiences have
really shaped and tried andtransformed you.
SPEAKER_02 (18:29):
Yeah.
Womkit, we look at mom and dadif we're lucky enough to have a
mom and dad, and they are ouridols of what a man and a woman
should be.
So we take on their traits andtheir behaviors because they are
literally role modeling to uswhat men and women are and what
the ideal version of men andwomen are, until we get old
(18:50):
enough, and then that spellbreaks, and we go, is this
really what we want?
And we're having outsideinfluences from teachers, from
school, from sports coaches,from media.
And now for kids, it's socialmedia.
And we get to that point we'retrying to figure out who we are.
So I got to that point prettyyoung, younger than most, and
(19:11):
realized I did not want to be myfather.
The problem is I didn't reallyknow what I wanted to be.
I looked at a lot of thestereotypical masculine stuff in
the media, and it part of itresonated, the high performance
part and the sports part.
And I still have problems withadmitting that I'm in pain when
I should and getting thephysical help I should.
(19:32):
I broke my ankle and didn't doanything about it for 18 months.
So that's still a journey for mebecause of that programming.
And I just think it's just sucha challenge for men, which is
why I run men's groups, tofigure out who am I as a man.
And interestingly, from my ownexperience with that, and I
(19:53):
joined men's groups very young.
I was like 21, I was theyoungest guy in my group by a
decade, easily.
My own journey was I realizedthat there is no man.
What is the man?
What is being a man?
And I see people answer it, anda lot of it that people answer
when they're on podcasts likethis, I just strongly disagree
with because the men that cometo my groups, they're all
(20:14):
different.
And we might have somesimilarities and some similar
experiences.
Like we struggle to really shareour emotions until we understand
how to, and until we find aplace we feel safe enough to,
and we feel like we're givenpermission, because typically
men are trained not toexperience our emotions as a
young man and boy.
(20:35):
We're told don't feel things,it's bad, don't be weak, don't
be a pussy.
All the homophobic and sexistslurs that go with that, like
the worst thing you could everbe is be feminine.
Uh, you can have some anger, butonly in a sports context, or
like a, or if somebody haswronged you in some way, then
it's okay.
And typically a lot of menstruggle with anger because they
(20:56):
think that means they have tohave a fight rather than I'm
frustrated.
What is this frustration tellingme?
And I had to relearn all ofthis.
Could have been trained out ofme societally by my parents.
And yeah, I had this dad thatwas a caricature of a man.
He was the most extreme.
He was large, he was aggressive.
Now, luckily, he never hit me,but I saw him hit other people,
(21:20):
and he was always inconfrontations.
He used to drive us to drive meto cycling events.
The only thing I did he wasinterested in.
Catching the school rugby teamnever watched me play rugby
once.
Swam for my county, neverwatched me swim once.
Cycling was his sport, that wasthe only thing he cared about.
Um, and he would drive us toraces and he would get into
confrontations with otherdrivers that he had created.
(21:42):
He'd create the situation wherethey're going to cut him off so
that then he could get angry.
And I'm watching all of this andabsorbing it as a young man and
then thinking, I don't want tobe that, but what do I want to
be?
And getting caught between thismedia portrayal of a man and
then what felt right for meinside as a human.
(22:02):
I I remember watching the movieDrive, which a popular movie,
Ryan Goslin spends the first 45minutes not speaking and
committing atrocious acts ofviolence, and it's this super
popular movie.
And I enjoyed the movie, butthen I'm looking at it from the
perspective of the maleprotagonist, and I'm thinking,
this is desperately sad.
This is a desperately disturbedyoung man.
(22:25):
And where is the space for him?
And this is what I see with men.
They just don't have this spaceto talk and to connect.
Yet human beings are designedto, and human beings are
designed to experience and feelemotion.
And we have let down men andwomen, but particularly men, in
their journey of learning bydismissing their emotions.
SPEAKER_01 (22:47):
I completely agree with that.
And I find the similar thingshappen in our group as well.
And I think, especially when yousee new members coming into the
circle and you know how theystruggle with being vulnerable
because they're not sure,because they're still ingrained
from a young age that well, if Isay the wrong thing, then I'm
either going to be teased orbanished, or wait, when's the
(23:08):
hazing ritual start?
And yeah, all of that stuff,right?
So it takes a while for becausewe don't we haven't been modeled
anything any different.
And so the challenge with Ithink that we find with that I
see with with men is justbreaking that mold.
And I see it with myself aswell, like just getting while
there's lots you we can learnfrom sports.
There are those parts of itwhere yes, I love in Canada, I
(23:31):
love hockey.
Yes, I get all excited when I'mwatching the game, and I'm
going, Why is the guy not goingin there and just crushing him
in the corner on the board?
Right.
But then in life, that's not howwe would respond to that
situation, right?
There's a different way toapproach that.
And so being around other men, Ithink, is really important to
(23:52):
help us learn and relearn themodel.
And there is no real definitionof it.
And I like the work that TerryPorter does with the man box and
really helping shape young men'sideas of what women are and
respect for themselves.
And so kudos to you forcontinuing to do men's work with
everything that you have on yourplate.
I really appreciate that.
SPEAKER_02 (24:13):
I think it's really important and I'm a bit stuck,
Alan, because I think there's amuch larger movement that's
needed.
And I have a blueprint in mymind and somewhat on paper, and
I just don't know how Iaccomplish it by myself.
I need other people toaccomplish it.
And I think there's anopportunity to create something
that is literally a home for menwhere men can come and learn and
(24:35):
be in groups and find communitybecause what we're seeing is the
opposite.
Men are becoming much morelonely.
Women are much better atcreating and keeping
relationships than men are.
And then you have thisgeneration of young men that are
failing because society isn'tmeeting them where they're at.
And they're only going to becomeangrier, more upset, more
(24:56):
lonely, more unsatisfied andunfulfilled.
And we I feel like society needsto meet that right now.
SPEAKER_01 (25:02):
Yeah, I completely agree with that as well.
I think what we're we'restarting to really get into and
touch on is this idea of havinga strong inner circle, whether
that's through a men's work oreven if you're not involved in
men's work, but having a stronginner circle.
So basically building yourtribe.
And so why do you think that'sso important?
And how can someone who'slooking for that can start to
(25:24):
build a tribe and an innercircle?
SPEAKER_02 (25:26):
Yeah, great question.
Well, human beings are designedto be community animals.
That's one of the reasons wewere so successful, because we
were better than any otheranimal at communicating.
We developed speech.
Um, through speech, we connectedthrough stories.
So it's important for us to beable to share our stories and
have stories.
That is how human beingsconnect.
(25:48):
And if we go back ancient tribaltimes, the men would have gone
and hunt and then they wouldhave sat around and talked and
communicated with each other.
And now that's been skewed intothis competition thing where we
think we've got to be incompetition with each other.
And one of the great learningsfrom my life, being in
(26:09):
competition with others nevergave me fulfillment.
Didn't matter what I won, itdidn't give me fulfillment.
The only person I want to be incompetition with these days is
myself.
And not even in competition, Ijust strive to be a better
version of myself.
That's my challenge, that's mydriver, that's what motivates
me.
And I've started a new sport, asI mentioned earlier, go-kart
(26:31):
racing two, three years ago.
And being able to step into thisdifferently in cycling, there
was that moment after I crashedwhere I realized I have to enjoy
cycling for cycling's sake, andI have to enjoy the process.
And I did enjoy cycling muchmore, and actually was more
successful after I broke myshoulder than before it, which
is crazy, but I was because Ilent much more into the process.
(26:54):
And this is what I work withpeople on, which is the process
is much more important than theoutcome.
The outcome is the byproduct ofthe process, and we get hooked
on competition, and then what wefind in society is we believe
that to win there must belosers.
And I just don't believe thatanymore.
The winning is about what Iaccomplished for myself and how
I feel about myself.
It's not about any kind ofexternal scoreboard.
(27:15):
And don't get me wrong, like insports, there is a scoreboard of
we go to the Olympics, we do thetrack cycling of the Olympics,
one person wins that event.
But if I feel I shut up as thebest version of myself and
somebody else beat me becausethey were better than me, I'm
going to walk away from thatfeeling truly fulfilled.
And it's much easier in businessbecause this there doesn't need
(27:36):
to be winners and losers inbusiness.
There's so much opportunity,there's so much available that
pretty much all of us can winand lift each other up.
And we need to get rid of thisnotion that somebody else needs
to fail for me to win.
And you see this when newcategories are created and
companies come in with newideas, other companies come up
around them and suddenly there'sa market for this thing that
(27:58):
didn't exist before.
So we see it all the time.
It's just more and moreavailable if we're willing to
support each other.
So I definitely come from thatthought that we achieve a lot
more in life by being incommunity.
So to come back to the originalquestion about why it is so
important.
Human beings are designed to bein community.
And we can show that lonelinessis a killer.
(28:19):
Loneliness takes years off ofyour life.
You're more likely to getserious illnesses and diseases
if you're lonely.
Human connectivity is soimportant.
And we have to be intentionalabout it because our world is
now not set up for it.
We think it is because of socialmedia.
And hey, I've got 10,000connections on LinkedIn.
How many of them do I know?
(28:40):
How many of them do I spendactual time with?
So I've become very intentionalabout making sure I spend time
with people.
I have my own personal men'sgroup every Wednesday morning.
I was go-kutting till 10 o'clocklast night.
By the time I got back, I'deaten and got to bed at 12
o'clock.
I got up at 6.20 to join mypersonal men's group, 6.40 this
morning, because that's howimportant it is to me.
(29:00):
So that I have regular catch-upcalls with friends, and I'm
maybe the autism.
I don't know, but I'm such astickler that I they are all
regimented and they are allritualized.
Every other Monday, I have twoguys that I catch up with.
Once a month, I have anotherfriend that I catch up with, and
I have various friends like thatwhere we don't need to think
about it.
It's in our schedule and it'sdone.
(29:22):
I have a group of friends herelocally in Long Beach that we
get together for dinner once amonth.
And I just have all of thesedifferent touch points and ways
of being in connection withpeople.
I have friends at the go-karttrack.
Me and my wife are just about tostart pickleball.
Part of why I want to do that isbecause I want to spend more
time with human beings.
Yes.
And it's so fascinating, Alan,that when I was a cycling coach
(29:43):
and I spent a lot of time aroundother human beings, I thought I
didn't like human beings.
And what I've discovered is thatI have a limit, an energy limit
for how much I can spend aroundpeople.
And as long as I don't go overthat, I adore and cherish my.
Time with humans.
So I'm just much moreintentional about it now.
SPEAKER_01 (30:03):
Well, that's a great learning, absolutely, when you
realize when to step back andhow much to lean into and really
participate in that.
Because I think that's also keyfor lots of us, right?
To being, we tend to re notremember or realize how we get
our energy and that juicehappens.
And so I like the idea of howyou put some structure into your
(30:25):
life.
One of the things that one ofthe things that we did with my
wife and I was that we foundthat we weren't connecting as
deeply as we should.
And so we set up this processwhere the second Friday of the
month is her day to plan a datenight and the fourth is my day.
And the rules are is thatwhatever that individual person,
whatever they pick, the otherone has to go along with it.
(30:45):
And it needs to be a little morethan just dinner and a movie.
It's just to go and explore andtry some different things,
really get a betterunderstanding of each other's
interests.
And I can't get over how I gottatell you how much we've learned
about each other.
And we've been married for 20years now.
And this is the things thatyou've you'll probably just
taken for granted, you didn'tpay attention to.
(31:08):
And so it's great to hear thatyou're doing that in even a
bigger, broader perspective withfamily and friends and others.
And I think that is just that'sjust awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (31:18):
I've realized that traveling is very important to
me.
And I only just recently I'veknown it for a while, but only
just recently I've had theepiphany.
I think it's because when Itravel, I don't have to mask my
autism in any way because nobodyhas any expectation of me.
I mean, I mean my wife does, butshe understands me pretty well.
So I can just be utterly myselfwithout worrying about being too
(31:40):
direct or offending anybody, ormy bright sneakers offending
somebody.
So I travel is very important tome.
I love what you do there withyour wife.
I think me and Sarah might needto incorporate some of that if
we pick these different dateideas.
So we have a date everyWednesday night, just after this
podcast.
Now I'm going for a meal with mywife, and we have what we call a
state of the union every week.
(32:02):
And I got this from a podcast,and it was actually another
well-renowned leader who used todo this with his wife and talked
about how this affected hisleadership.
And I completely agree with himbecause the stability of your
home life makes a hugedifference.
But they we have this date, andthere's a structure to the date.
We follow a process, so it'slike the business of the
(32:23):
relationship.
Is there any things we need todo?
Is there any chores we need toget sorted going through that
process?
Then there's what are we lookingforward to?
What things do we need to do?
Then there's an appreciationsection.
We've got to find three to fivethings that we want to
appreciate, appreciate eachother for that week.
And then the last bit is one ortwo gripes or things that we
(32:44):
would like to discuss with eachother.
They're a little bit morecharged.
And it's been wonderful for ourrelationship.
I think it's so helpful.
And because you start with theappreciation, by the time you
get to the gripes, you're reallyconnected with each other.
And I find that you come to themwith a lot more empathy.
SPEAKER_01 (33:02):
Love that.
Love that.
Love that.
Okay.
So we've already talked aboutwell, there's lot there's lots
of similarities and parallelswith high performance athletes
and high performance CEOs andthat, but you must have also
come across maybe there'ssomething that does hold them
back.
And so, how do you help men,high-performing men who are
struggling with this one thingthat may be holding them back?
(33:25):
And is there something therethat you can tell us about?
SPEAKER_02 (33:28):
Yeah, we've already touched on it.
Hope I'm saying that correctlytransgenically.
And that is the people that Iwork with are very often the
smartest or most capable personin the room.
And how does that hold themback, you might ask?
It holds them back because theycan't trust others to do it.
So they have to do itthemselves.
So I'm usually called in whenyour company is between 20 and
(33:51):
50 people, maybe as much as 100,depending on the business.
And you, the owner, founder, andCEO, is the person holding the
company back because you can'tempower other people to do it.
So you rescue them, you take itoff them, you do it better than
them.
And what you constantly createis this feeling of they are
(34:11):
lesser than you.
And you're teaching them thatthey're lesser than you, because
you keep going, don't worry,I'll do that, I'll take that off
your or you know what, I'll justyou're not doing it right.
Let me do it properly.
And it holds scaling companiesback and it really gets in the
way.
So my job is to help that personcome to terms with themselves,
(34:32):
their need for things to beperfect, their need for things
to be done their way.
And typically the deeper-seatedissue and the thing getting in a
way is their inability to trustthemselves to be okay.
And it's their inability to livethrough the discomfort of
somebody else not doing it howthey would do it.
(34:52):
And while we're on that, I mightas well touch on parenting
because it's this is what I seeoften with parents as well, and
something we work a lot on in mymen's group is you want to be a
really good parent, you have tobe able to be comfortable with
your discomfort of thediscomfort that your child is
going through.
And that sounds a bitcomplicated, so I'll just
explain it again.
You are going to watch yourchild go through discomfort.
(35:15):
That discomfort is typicallygood for them because without
it, they don't developresistance, sorry, resilience,
and they don't develop theability to be able to do things
and to think for themselves.
If you rescue them, you areactually doing them a massive
disservice.
Exactly the same in leadership.
The more we rescue somebody, themore we actually hold them back.
We need to be comfortable withwe're going to watch some
(35:37):
failure and we're going to watchpeople in discomfort going, I
don't know how to do this, andI'm stuck, and we're going to
go, it's okay, you figure itout.
Or why don't you try this andgive them little nudges and
suggestions, but we don't takeit from them.
And I was listening to a podcastlast night.
I really like the work of AdamGrant, psych organizational
psychologist.
And he has some great guests,and I can't remember the guest
(35:58):
name, I'm embarrassed to say,but she's just written a book on
parenting.
And one of the worst things aparent can do is take things off
of their child, do it for them,instead of allowing them to do
it and to learn and to grow andto develop that resilience and
that trust in themselves thatthey will be okay even when
things aren't going well.
SPEAKER_01 (36:20):
Yeah, what a great way to put that and really bring
business, the idea that of doingthat in business to really hit
home.
Excuse the pun, that to help usto be better fathers and
leaders.
Really before we wrap up.
SPEAKER_02 (36:33):
It's all the same, Alan, right?
Sorry, mate.
It's all the same.
I often say to my leaders, and Idon't want this to sound
patronizing because it's notmeant like this, see your team
like children, and not from thepoint of view that they're
stupid and capable, but from thepoint of view it's your job to
develop and grow them, just likeit's your job to do that for
your children and support them.
And like I said about myathletes, I believe true great
(36:59):
leadership is you are supportingsomebody to take your job.
That's what you should want forthem.
Oh, and if they don't take yourjob, they go and do whatever it
is they want somewhere else.
But you are enabling them to bethe absolute best version of
themselves because your companywill benefit from that while
they're with you.
And if they go on to somethingelse, all they're ever going to
do is talk about what an amazingleader you are and tell
(37:20):
everybody that they meet thatyou should go and work with this
guy because he's incredible, oryou should go and work with this
woman because she's incredible.
It's just a fantastic advert foryour business, too.
SPEAKER_01 (37:30):
Completely agree.
I was just thinking about aprogram I was developing for
five people that report to meright now.
And as I look at a transitionthrough my career, is to prepare
them for they may it if any ofthem are interested in sitting
in my chair.
Whether they're actually goingto do that or not, it wasn't the
point of the program.
(37:50):
The point of the program is todevelop them and help shape them
so that they can be readyregardless of what ends up, the
ultimate outcome comes for them.
And I think that's just soimportant.
And I think what you're just dubdovetails and what you were just
saying, and really leading anddeveloping people, whether
that's through high performanceindividuals or somebody brand
(38:13):
new into an organization, justgiven that that playing field,
that structure that allows themto grow and to and evolve as
humans.
SPEAKER_02 (38:38):
Only you can do it.
Nobody can do it for you.
There are many men's groups outthere.
Anyone's very welcome to reachout to me and have a
conversation with me.
Doesn't mean you have to workwith me.
I'll happily talk to you aboutmy experiences and give you any
advice I can about what is goingto help you get to where you
want to get to.
The first part is thatrecognition, Alan, of I'm not
(38:59):
happy.
And I have two types of clients.
So I have the high-performingfounder, and then I have the
middle-aged man who has it alland is not happy.
And he can't figure out why he'snot happy.
I write a post about theAmerican dream that I'm going to
release next week.
And it's because we've been soldthis dream of if you are
successful, I've seenfinancially successful, have a
(39:19):
big house and cute kids, you'vewon.
But that doesn't bringfulfillment.
That's just an achievement.
Fulfillment is something verydifferent.
So I work with people andfiguring out once they've got
that, what's my fulfillment?
Once they've got a milliondollars, a billion dollars,
what's my fulfillment?
So I think what's one greatpiece of it's not about you.
(39:42):
I think if you can just keepremembering everything that is
happening in the world that youare taking personal offense to
and getting frustrated about isabsolutely not about you.
It's typically about the otherperson.
Life becomes a lot easierbecause you have more empathy.
So you look at the other person.
I wonder what's going on forthem why they're giving me bad
(40:02):
service today or they cut me offin their car.
And it allows you to be a lotless stressed and a lot more
thoughtful.
And when we don't take thingspersonally, we don't end up
fighting the world.
And I see a lot of men fightingthe world, like taking personal
upfront about things that arejust not about them.
So I think that's a great one totake away.
If you can trust everybody'sdoing the best they can with the
(40:23):
skill set they have, might be anundeveloped skill set, but
they're doing the best they canwith it.
And you can truly believe that.
And it's not about you.
It's much easier to have empathyand have a far less stressful
life.
SPEAKER_01 (40:37):
Absolutely.
I just want to say thank you forspending time with us today and
sharing your wisdom onleadership, emotional mastery,
and what it really means to leadwith integrity.
And so your journey from eliteathletics to executive coaching
has really given us somepowerful models for us to show
up better fully as men and asleaders and as fathers.
And so if anybody's interestedin participating in your
(40:58):
programs and getting a hold ofyou, what's the best way for
them to do that?
SPEAKER_02 (41:02):
Thank you, Alan.
I make it super simple.
So I'm Lee Povy on everything.
My websites, LeePovy.com,LeePovy on Instagram, LinkedIn,
and Facebook.
I'm most active on LinkedIn.
Go to my website, sign up for mynewsletter.
I am doing my best to shareanything I can every week that
has some kind of impact that isso important to me.
(41:24):
I am looking to provide thementorship for men and women,
and I like working with womenjust as much as men, that I
didn't receive as a young man.
And that's how I'm healing thatpart of myself is I am out there
hoping that I can provide a pathfor other people to not have to
go through what I went through.
SPEAKER_01 (41:44):
I love that.
So I'm going to make sure today,in the show notes for today's
episode, that everywhere thatyou're found on social media and
on the internet, that people getan opportunity to find you.
And as we get ready to closetoday, I also want to throw a
challenge to our listenerstoday.
And are you leading from beliefor are you leading from fear?
And so if you're ready to leadyour life and your family and
your mission with greaterclarity and conviction, then
(42:05):
join me and take our freeintegrity challenge.
Just go to members.net and startyour journey today.
And let's get after it.
With that, thank you so much.
Lee, once again, reallyappreciated having you on the
show.
SPEAKER_02 (42:17):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (42:18):
It's been wonderful, and thank you for listening to
the Revolutionary Man podcast.
Are you ready to own yourdestiny?
To become more the man you aredestined to be?
(42:40):
Join the Brotherhood that is TheAwakened Man at
theawakendman.net and startforging a new destiny today.
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