April 8, 2025 • 40 mins
Let me know your thoughts on the show and what topic you would like me to discuss next.
Addiction lurks in the shadows of many men's lives, creating a double existence filled with shame, self-hatred, and broken relationships. In this raw and revealing conversation, Logan Hufford bravely shares his journey through the depths of sex addiction – a struggle that nearly destroyed his marriage and his sense of self-worth despite coming from a loving, supportive family.
"There was never a day in my life where I didn't feel loved. There was never a day in my life where I didn't feel safe," Logan explains, shattering the common misconception that addiction only afflicts those from troubled backgrounds. His testimony provides a crucial reminder that addiction doesn't discriminate – it can ensnare anyone, regardless of upbringing or circumstances.
Logan doesn't shy away from the neurological realities of addiction, explaining how his limbic system began overriding his rational brain. "I'm responsible for my choices, but it also becomes harder and harder to make a healthy choice the further I get into addiction," he shares. This balance of personal responsibility and understanding the brain science of addiction offers a refreshing perspective for both addicts and those supporting them.
The road to recovery Logan describes isn't quick or easy. Sexual addiction specifically requires "four to six years of sobriety and active recovery" before relapse becomes unlikely. Through daily accountability calls, transparent technology use, and learning to "shut up and listen" to feedback, Logan gradually rebuilt trust with his wife Carrie and found freedom from his addiction. Now nine years sober, he works helping other men find their way out of addiction's grip.
For families supporting someone with addiction, Logan offers perhaps the most powerful insight of all: "You can't drag anyone to recovery, but you play a huge part in their lives when they're ready to seek healthy living." Whether you're battling addiction yourself or supporting someone who is, this episode provides both practical tools and the hope that true transformation is possible.
Key moments in this episode:
02:54 Logan Huffer's Story: From Darkness to Redemption
07:52 Childhood and the Roots of Addiction
10:14 Advice for Families of Addicts
16:01 The Non-Linear Journey of Recovery
23:21 Rebuilding Trust: Marriage and Family
29:23 Life Today: Family, Recovery, and Mentorship
35:58 Final Thoughts and Parting Message
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
No, today we're going to embark on a journey through
the shadows, exploring a topicthat many men grapple with in
silence.
It's the topic of addiction,and addiction is a relentless
beast that can tear lives apartand leave devastation in its
wake, and it doesn'tdiscriminate, but it doesn't
show any mercy and can consumeeven the strongest among us.
(00:20):
And so join us today as we'regoing to dive into the depths of
addiction, exploring thestruggles, the triumphs and the
hope that lies on the other side.
And, through my guest stories,we're going to uncover the
resilience not only of the humanspirit, but also the
possibility of what redemptionlooks like in the face of
adversity.
And before we get into today'sepisode, let's come to grips
(00:41):
about.
Another thing is that inevitably, there will come a time when we
will hit a wall, and whetherthat's a marriage that's not
working, or a career or businessthat's stagnated, or maybe your
personal life is just flatline.
So if you're dealing with anyof these, or a combination of
them, and you're finally fed upwith where your life's at, then
allow me to help you get clearabout what needs to get done and
(01:03):
how to go about doing that, soyou can live a life where you
were meant to live.
Just go to theawakenedmannetand download our free setting,
the compass exercise.
Let's get started today Withthat.
Let's get on with today'sepisode.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
The average man today is sleepwalking through life,
many never reaching their truepotential, let alone ever
crossing the finish line toliving a purposeful life.
Yet the hunger still exists,albeit buried amidst his
cluttered mind, misguidedbeliefs and values that no
longer serve him.
It's time to align yourself forgreatness.
(01:42):
It's time to become arevolutionary man.
Stay strong, my brother.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Welcome everyone to the Revolutionary man Podcast.
I'm the founder of the Awakenedman Movement and your host,
alan DeMont.
So do you struggle silentlywith addiction and are you even
at the point of admitting thatyou might have a problem?
When addiction is present, itcan become very affected in all
(02:11):
parts of our life.
It's a journey not only of hopeand anger, frustration, and it
bears the soul of everyonethat's involved in it, as each
player has to reveal tothemselves the part and the
impact that they're having onthe decisions that are being
made.
Once these decisions arepainless, and regardless of
whether you are reigning in thatfight or if you're going to
(02:33):
choose to play the scars thatremain on all of us, then you
need to make a differentdecision.
So how do we go about survivingas addicts, how do we salvage
our lives and how do we repairrelationships?
So these are just some of thequestions we're going to dive
into today's conversation.
So allow me to introduce myguest.
(02:54):
Today I have the privilege ofsharing the story of Logan
Hufford, a man who battled thegrip of addiction and emerged
victorious.
He was born and raised inbreathtaking landscapes of
Alaska.
Emerged victorious.
He was born and raised inbreathtaking landscapes of
Alaska, and I can say that isfor sure, I've been out there
only once.
Just gorgeous part of thisworld, and Logan's life is
deemed seemed to be totallyidyllic when you think about it
(03:15):
on the surface.
Yet beneath that veneer of allthe normalcy lurked a painful
struggle.
It was a battle of sexaddiction that created and
threatened to unravel everythingthat he held so close to
himself, and for years, loganfound himself ensnared in a
cycle of destruction, hismarriage and his very existence
hanging by a thread.
(03:36):
And by 2016, the glimmer ofhope had finally emerged, and it
was through the grace of Godthat the journey of recovery
that Logan found redemption.
So today he stands as thattestament of the power of
resilience, faith and atransformative journey of
recovery.
Welcome to the show, logan.
How are things, my friend?
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Things are good.
I mean that you can hear myvoice.
I'm not feeling very well, butI was not about to let this,
this interview, go by thewayside.
You and I have had the toughesttime.
I've done about a hundredinterviews this year and we've
no one has had a tougher timewith getting our schedules
together than you and me, andI'm like we're going to do this
(04:19):
thing, but truly to be able tosay, yeah, I'm doing well.
I woke up this morning, spenttime with my boys, spent time
with my wife.
I'm here.
I'm going to go home later andspend time with my family and
throughout it all.
Life's not perfect, but I don'thave shame.
I don't have a double life.
(04:40):
I can make mistakes and knowthat I had healthy intentions.
I'm not secretly living indarkness, so life is good.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Oh, that's awesome to hear brother like to hear.
That's this I start for ourshow today, and so, while we're
going to talk a little, we'regoing to talk, obviously, and
touch on the idea of what it'slike to be wrapped, grappling
with the, with addiction.
We're not necessarily going tospend much time in the
nitty-gritty, and of that it'smore about you, the man, and how
that transformative, thattransformation, actually happens
(05:15):
.
So I'd like to start by asking,while I tease them, our
audience, a little bit aboutwhat you've gone through.
Tell us about, though, the time, that darkest time in your life
, when you knew things justneeded to change, and what did
you do about that, and how didthat shape you into the man you
are today?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
yeah, the darkest season of my life really would
be once I was married, once thatthreshold had been crossed,
because, like I, my addictionand my unhealthy behaviors,
(05:52):
addiction to pornography,chasing after attention from
women those things had startedbefore I got married.
But once I was married and Ididn't stop, that's because I
thought that I would stop.
I thought that, okay, I'm likenot making good decisions, I'm
sowing my wild oats or whatever,but I'm not going to do that
once I'm married, like that'd becrazy.
And then I kept doing it.
And then, pretty quickly, wegot pregnant with our oldest,
(06:12):
elijah.
We had Elijah 11 months afterwe got married.
So within a couple months ofmarriage, I got a pregnant wife,
I've got my boy on the way andI've already hired a prostitute.
I've already, I've continuallyhad affairs.
I'm still struggling withpornography and it's only
getting worse.
And from that point on the nextfive years, it was a season, a
(06:40):
five-year season of self-hatred.
A five-year season ofself-hatred, despair, complete
hopelessness.
I the entire time I believed inthe existence of god, but it
was like, obviously I'm not cutout to be part of god's family,
to be a christian because I justkeep screwing up, I keep doing
(07:01):
all this evil.
That's not.
It's not for me, obviously.
It was just this whole wishingthat God had never created me,
wishing that Carrie had adifferent man for a husband,
wishing that those boys you knowcould have possibly had a
different man for their dad.
And that's such a dark place tolive, but that's where I lived
(07:21):
for a lot of years.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Man, that's so painful.
Just listening to that andhearing you go through that
struggle and continue to workthrough that struggle it's.
I think it's something that wedon't ever totally fully
overcome, necessarily.
I think it's.
There's always those scars thatare left with us, as we talked
about in the intro, coming intothe, coming into this episode,
but and yet you still had enoughof a glimmer of hope to turn
(07:49):
towards your faith, to help liftyou from the place you're at.
And so when you think backabout how this addiction started
, let's go back into childhood.
Do you think were there anythings that were happening in
childhood that pushed youtowards that or drawn you
towards this type of this typeof lifestyle?
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Yeah, this is something that I have looked at
so many times, whether it'sthrough interviews like this,
obviously, in my recovery workwe did deep therapeutic work in
the recovery program and theshort answer is not really
there's no perfect life, there'sno perfect childhood.
But, like, my childhood was achildhood where two statements
that are very these are verypowerful statements I look I
know now, and yet these wereboth true.
(08:32):
There was never a day in mylife where I didn't feel loved.
There was never a day in mylife where I didn't feel safe.
Like I realize now, most peoplecannot make those statements
about their childhood, and yet Ihonestly can.
And yet I still got intoaddiction.
I still chased after more anddifferent and more perverse, and
(08:57):
I chased after sin.
I chased after the highs.
The dopamine hits, hits, allthese things I, you know what.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
I just want to touch a little bit on that.
Thank you so much for bringingthat, this point forward for us
today.
What you're, what?
I don't want anybody listeningto this episode thinking that
for someone to be have anaddiction, an addiction means
that they came from a brokenfamily, there was stuff that
wasn't working at home.
This can happen and does happento any of us all of us and so
(09:38):
it's really important that weunderstand that when we're
talking about addiction, that itisn't that there was something
going wrong necessarily, but thechallenge is that we have it's
things that are within us, thatare inside of us.
That needs some nurturing andsome work.
And one of the things that youknow, having dealt with that in
(09:59):
my life and in my family, myoldest son is an addict.
He struggles with makinghealthy decisions around drugs
and alcohol and is in and out ofincarceration, and he's been
like that since he was 16.
So right through juvenile andhe's in his early 30s now and,
as the parent or as a spouse,what do you think is going on
(10:20):
for them and how do you thinkthat, as that person now who's
obviously involved deeply in thelives, what advice do you give
for those folks that arestruggling when they may have
someone who's a family member,who's an addict?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
In the family of an addict.
On one hand, you know, maybeI'll never know, but at the same
time I get glimpses of whatthat looks like the struggle
with codependency, the strugglewith wanting to fix that kind of
thing.
I'm sure there's tons of commondenominators between being the
spouse of an addict and beingthe parent of an addict,
Although there's definitely somestrong differences too.
And I'll share a little bitfrom my wife Carrie's
(10:58):
perspective, and everything I'llshare from her perspective is
straight from her mouth.
None of this is speculation orguesswork.
This is all stuff that shewould actively share in her
testimony.
For a long time, especially withmy specific addiction, it
wasn't just that I was choosingdrugs over my family, choosing
alcohol over my family.
I'm choosing another woman tohave sex with.
(11:19):
That's a very strong addictionand betrayal and abandonment of
family.
And so she for years thoughtthat I was choosing my addiction
, choosing pornography and otherwomen, because she wasn't
enough, because she must need togive me something different or
give me something more.
(11:40):
She needs to probably lookdifferent or be more available.
She thought those thingsbecause that would be a logical
assumption, right, and that wasa giant part of recovery for
both of us, but especially forher, is recognizing.
No, it wasn't about she's notenough or that I didn't love her
, that she wasn't attractive.
(12:01):
It's.
I trained myself to chase afternew and different and more.
And Carrie can't be that.
She can only be herself for aspouse, especially with sexual
addiction.
But I, honestly, I I wouldimagine this part is speculation
, but I would imagine that thosesame principles are at play
with other addictions.
Somebody that's an alcoholic.
It's not that the taste ofalcohol tastes better than any
(12:26):
other liquid.
It's not that a drug addict,that being high is their
favorite thing in the world.
Now, there definitely arepeople where those the taste of
alcohol or the feeling of beinghigh it, but there's plenty of
people where it's gone way pastthat point.
It's not about enjoyment, it'sabout this is how I live life.
It wasn't.
(12:46):
Oh, I need to find someone whois, who makes me feel better
than Carrie, makes me feel ithad nothing to do with that, it
was.
I'm chasing after these hits,these highs, and the darker, the
more forbidden, the more riskythe behavior is, the bigger, the
high I get.
It wasn't that somebody wasbetter than Carrie.
(13:08):
That's a huge part of it.
Is just recognizing.
It's not a logical, it's not amath equation this plus this
equals this.
No, it's not that at all.
I'd gotten myself to a pointwhere my limbic system was that
was the overriding driver of mybehavior.
You know, not my thinking brainPrefrontal cortex was back
there sleeping.
(13:29):
It was my limbic system runningthings.
And that's not to give me anexcuse, that's not to say that I
didn't know what I was doing orthat it was my addiction that
was choosing things.
No, not at all.
I fully reject that.
I chose my decisions.
But it is also true that thefurther I got into my addiction,
the harder it became to makehealthy choices.
(13:51):
Yes, and that is that's abalance that I always hope that
people can understand,especially folks outside of the
addiction world is both of those.
Things are true, I'm responsiblefor my choices, but it also
becomes harder and harder tomake a healthy choice.
The further I get intoaddiction because I'm
responsible for my choices, butit also becomes harder and
harder to make a healthy choice,the further I get into
addiction, because I'm literallywiring my brain.
I'm re wiring my brain in avery dark and corrupt way, and
(14:14):
that's not like a metaphor.
That's that, literally, ishappening.
My neural pathways are gettingchanged and I can come back from
that, and that's a beautifulpart about recovery is that I
can come back from that.
But that's a beautiful partabout recovery is that I can
come back from that.
But it's not going to be easy.
It's not.
There's no toggle switch that Ican just flip off and go okay,
now I'm healthy again.
It's going to take years ofwork.
Sexual addiction specifically,it's four to six years.
(14:37):
I think is the range of four tosix years of sobriety and
active recovery is usually whatit's going to take before
somebody is unlikely to relapse.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
That's a lot of, that's a long time and a lot of
work, and so it takes a strongfoundation to be able to do that
work in, and so I'm reallygrateful to hear that you have
that for you, because a lot oftimes that doesn't always exist
for folks, and so it's importantfor all of us to understand.
I'm glad that you're making thecomment that two things can be
(15:10):
true at the same time, andbecause it is important to
understand that when your limbicsystem starts to take over and
starts making decisions, it'sbecome something that it's much
more challenging, and it is nota simple one plus one math
equation.
It's incredibly complexequation, really that you're
(15:31):
trying to that you're trying towork through and understand, and
you I know that said that thedefinition of addiction is
something that I can quit on myown, but then you were talked
about.
That doesn't always mean thatyou're necessarily going to take
responsibility for choices, butbut you have been taking
responsibility, you've beenmaking that really clear in this
and that every time thatthere's a step forward, there
(15:54):
might be a bit of a relapse andthen there's some more steps
forward and then it comes back.
So the journey is never astraight line, talk a little bit
about some of those challengesthat you've been, that you faced
, and what were some of somestrategies that you used to help
you keep yourself on thestraight and narrow.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yeah, the nonlinear aspect of it is a huge part of
it.
And on one hand, I do see alittle bit of the narrative
sometimes, like on Instagram orin some resources for addiction
that where it's like, hey,relapse is just part of the
journey, relapse is just part ofrecovery.
And on one hand, I don't wantto like attack somebody just
based on a meme that I saw, butthere there is a narrative out
(16:36):
there that kind of says that andI push back on that Relapse is
not part of recovery, relapse isnot a an okay thing.
If it happens, then, yeah, thebest thing I can do is jump back
on the horse, jump back intogroup, jump back into
conversation with mentors andsponsors and work and keep
working on myself, as opposed tooh crap, I relapsed, I'm just
(17:00):
the same old me, I'm nodifferent, I'm never going to be
healthy.
So, yeah, relapse is not anexcuse to give up, but I do need
to come to a point where I seerelapse as an avoidable thing
that I don't need to ever doagain, and that's a far cry from
relapse as a part of recovery.
(17:20):
Now, unhealthy choices.
I think it's safe to say thatunhealthy choices are just going
to be a part of life.
Again, not that they're okay,but I'm going to make unhealthy
choices.
But here's the thing theunhealthy choices that I have
made and that I will make, thefallout from those choices, the
(17:42):
consequences from those choicesShould decrease over time.
Those choices should decreaseover time and then the frequency
between how often am I makingthose unhealthy choices should
also that should increase, right, in terms of between unhealthy
choices.
An example the first year ofrecovery, the first year of
(18:02):
sobriety, of not acting out.
So no porn, no sexual behaviorwith other women, no
masturbation that first year Imade some terrible choices and I
put myself right up to thepoint of acting out.
I remember one time I wanted tolook up some artist or some
song and I this was absolutelythe MO of how I used to do
(18:23):
things where I'd go down arabbit trail.
Maybe it didn't start out thatI was looking for something bad,
but then pretty quickly, I'mseeing something and I'm, and so
eventually it got to the pointwhere, within maybe a minute of,
I'm trying to find a song.
I'm looking at, like Google,images of album covers, but it's
a bunch of scantily clad women,not the kind of stuff I should
(18:43):
be looking at, and I don'tremember if it was three seconds
of looking at that or 30seconds.
But you know, within a matterof some seconds I'm like, oh,
this is not good, I need to stopdoing this.
And I clicked off it and I didreport that to my mentor.
That's a that's pretty extreme.
That's right up there with somepeople would even classify that
as okay.
I, hey, we're going to chalkthat up as you were looking at
(19:05):
porn.
So that was an unhealthy choiceI made within that first year.
It's been a long time sinceI've done something like that,
but I still make unhealthychoices.
You know if I, if a pop-up adcomes up and I click off of it,
but before I click off of it Idouble take it that ad for just
a quarter second and then Iclick off it, that's still an
(19:32):
unhealthy choice.
And so the types of choices Imake, I should be making less
and less of them over time and Ishouldn't be doing the same
stuff, same thing, with anger.
I get angry still, but it's I'mnot lashing out.
I'm not acting out in rage theway that I used to several years
ago.
You asked about tools, some ofthe things I can do to own this
stuff and to work on this stuff.
The number one tool that I usedin recovery was required of me
(19:53):
because I was in basically avoluntary house arrest program.
I had a lot of autonomystripped away from me.
I had to make a phone callevery single day, and not a
phone call that was just like tomy mom or to my friend or to my
brother-in-law Not that there'sanything wrong with that.
(20:14):
This had to be a phone callthat was just like to my mom or
to my friend or to mybrother-in-law not that there's
anything wrong with that.
This had to be a phone callthat was outgoing.
So it's not you calling me tocheck up, it's me taking the
initiative to call a recoverybrother, a brother or a sponsor
mentor, specifically in therecovery, to check in with how
my day has been.
Now there's other ways that Ican do that.
It doesn't have to be on aphone call, but anything that I
can do to download, to take allthe stressor, not just sexual
(20:35):
temptations, but all thestressors, all the frustrations,
all the things I'm strugglingwith, all the types of things
that in the past I've hadtrouble coping with and I just
put it out there and baddecisions that I've made,
temptations to make baddecisions.
So I'm not talking about thefootball game on Monday night.
I'm not talking about excitingweekend plans.
(20:56):
I'm talking about the garbagethat I struggle with Right and
I'm owning my part.
And then here's the key After Iget done, getting current if
I'm getting current with Alan,I'm on the phone or we're at a
meeting, I'm getting currentwith you.
When I'm done speaking my piece,I share my day or my week, I
have to shut up and listen andthen you can ask me whatever
(21:17):
questions you want, you can giveme whatever feedback you want,
and I'm not allowed to talk.
Unless you ask me a question,I'm not allowed to talk.
That was the single on atangible level, just a practical
tool.
That was the single on atangible level, just a practical
tool.
That was the single best thingthat I learned in recovery was
that muscle of shut up andlisten, absorb.
I don't necessarily have to doeverything you tell me to do,
(21:37):
but I have to at least considerit.
I have to try it on and chew onit man, that's a heck of a way
to get the limbic system shifted.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, no kidding.
And because now you're in aposition where really it's about
looking at moving that sense ofcontrol that you have a way is
you have to now be able to sitin.
What was what is happening.
And so what I like about thatis it does force you to put it
be in a different position.
And I want to just expand alittle bit on this, because one
(22:08):
of the things, something thathappened to in my marriage of
almost 10 years ago now is thatI had an affair and it just
about cost me that marriage aspart of the reason, one of the
big parts of the reason why Igot into doing the men's work
and doing podcasting and thiskind of work.
And so, as I'm telling this sideof the story I just wanted to
get into for me, you talkedabout your outgoing call, daily
(22:29):
call, and I know for me one ofthe things to rebuild trust in
the relationship was that wasone of those things, was the,
was the making sure to call hey,I'm leaving the office, I'm,
I'm coming home now and I woulddo that in the past before, but
sometimes wouldn't be thatconsistent, and even to this day
now it's something that'sreally important to me because,
(22:51):
from an integrity perspective,and how I see myself today
versus how I saw myself then isdifferent, and so let's talk a
little bit about some of theother things that you've done to
help rebuild trust, especiallyin the, in your marriage and
with the kids.
What are some other things thatyou've been doing to help build
that?
And also then it helps shapeyou into, to a different type of
(23:17):
man and how you see yourselfand that aspect of it as well.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, Building trust within the family, within the
marriage.
That's, that's huge, andthere's some common denominators
that are largely going to betrue in any couple.
And then, of course, there'sthat's huge, and there's some
common denominators that arelargely going to be true in any
couple.
And then, of course, there'ssome that are going to depend on
what the wife wants or what thehusbands are.
I mean, in this case I'mthinking about the man side, but
the person who has done thebetraying, whether that's the
man or the woman, what theirpast has been, what their MO has
(23:43):
been, For instance.
Some wives cause, like my wifeCarrie.
She works with women in thesexual betrayal trauma healing
space, so she works with otherwomen just like women had worked
with her in the past right.
There's some women that they'regoing to to your point about
checking in on the way home.
There's some women that aregoing to want that and some
women that are gonna like, no, Idon't want to be your
(24:05):
babysitter, I don't want you tocall your mentor, you check in
with him.
That was much more like Carrie.
I had done so much oversharinglike unhealthy oversharing,
vomiting that she actuallydidn't want me to check in with
her a bunch.
She wanted me to do that withthe guys.
Now there's another lady.
It's interesting I just sharedthis example yesterday in a
(24:27):
podcast that one of the coupleswho we've gotten to know really
well over the last few years.
I have a huge amount of respectfor the man and for the wife for
the work that they've beendoing for several years now.
She's taken almost the oppositeapproach that Carrie took.
She's taken a very hands-onapproach.
She wants to know what's goingon.
She wants him to check in withher.
But there's a reason for that.
In his addiction he was verymuch the opposite of me.
(24:48):
We both did unhealthy betrayal,but he was much more
introverted, much more hiddenand much more of closed off and
emotionally anorexic.
And so she wants him to checkin, because he never checked in
before.
So it's basically I'm justtrying to say there's not
necessarily the right way andthe wrong way that I need to be.
If I'm in this space, if I'mstruggling, I need to be
(25:11):
checking in, but whether it'swith my wife or with a mentor,
like, that's where it's going todepend, and it shouldn't be up
to the addict, it shouldn't beup to the guy, it's up to the
mentorship team and up to thespouse.
Yeah, I mean something I had todo and this was my mentor's,
this was his rule that when hewas working with me I think it
was for the first several monthsyeah, when I got to work, I had
(25:31):
to text him a selfie.
If I went to lunch, I'd have totext a picture of me at lunch.
Selfie back to work, selfie thewhole nine yards, absolutely.
(25:52):
And so with Carrie, even thoughshe wasn't getting all the
check-ins, she knew that I waschecking in and we were blessed
where her mentor was my mentor'swife.
So my mentor Rick and hermentor Patty were married, and
so there was if she, if Carrie,wanted to know something, there
was a line of communicationthere.
She knew that it wasn't, thatthere was a.
There weren't hidden secrets,it's just I wasn't going to be
pelting her with every singletime I'm tempted.
It's all that stuff was goingto recovery brothers when we're
at the house.
She's free to ask any questionat any point, just on some of
(26:15):
these things like should beobvious, but I'll definitely
state them just to make surethat they're stated.
My phone, obviously she's got.
She knows my password.
I can tell you right now it'snot that often that she gets on
my phone unless she's like usingit to check something that like
an app that I have that shedoesn't understand.
She doesn't get on my phone andcheck my messages a bunch, but
she absolutely has permission to.
At any given point in myaddiction I wouldn't pair my
(26:36):
phone up to the Bluetoothusually when we're driving,
because I wouldn't want a callto come in or a text to come in
and then she hears the peeingover the speakers.
So it's because I had all thesethese different things in
motion that I was trying to hideand so just being able to have
the phone face up or have thephone hooked up to the car
stereo and not worry about it,cause if a call comes in or a
(26:57):
text comes in.
If it's from a woman or not,I'm not worried, because if it's
from a woman, it's not from awoman that I'm doing anything
inappropriate with, and sothere's that freedom, right.
But yeah, carrie, making surethat she is free to ask any
question, because it's one thing, like I can tell my wife hey,
you can ask me whatever you want, anything you want to know,
(27:19):
I'll tell you.
I can say those words.
But then if she does that, sheasks me a question, she checks
in on a red flag and I getdefensive or I gaslight her or I
try to bully her.
And what am I doing?
I told her she can ask me anyquestion, but my body language
and my verbiage and my actualbehavior tells her you can't ask
(27:42):
me anything.
I'm going to bully you, you'renot free to ask anything.
And I did that at variouspoints in the past where I would
get so defensive and I wouldtry to gaslight her and bully
her, and so she didn't.
She was taught very early inher recovery Don't go by what
Logan is telling you andpromising you.
Go by his behavior, because hisbehavior over a period of time,
(28:03):
that's what you can trust.
That's what you can trust and,by God's grace, yeah, we're at a
point where she can trust mywords.
We're also almost nine yearsinto recovery.
It wasn't an overnight thing.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
No for sure not.
That's awesome.
Those are great points to forus to recognize right that it
then something's going to bedifferent, for the recovery
process is going to be differentfor each couple as we go
through it.
And, yeah, sometimes they wantmore of that.
That check-in, I know for us itwas.
It wasn't necessarily somethingthat my wife asked for, it was
something I felt I needed to do.
Same idea with the phone, andto this day it's here it is,
(28:38):
have be an open book.
I think for some of us that andI'm, I would say I'd lean
towards the introvert side of it, so haven't been in the past, I
hadn't been great at expressingemotion or letting things,
letting people know what wasreally going on with me, and so
that's really been a work ofwork for my work.
To do that really has helpedchange.
(28:59):
And it sounds like you yourecognize that part, that shadow
part of yourself that wasgetting you into the positions
where you weren't making healthydecisions, was the piece that
you needed to work on.
And I think that's really keythat we understand that
everyone's going to have alittle different part of that's
going to play a little differentpart in their life.
And when you recognize that andyou start to work on, that's
when things start to momentumstarts to change.
(29:21):
And I want to come closer totoday.
What's what keeps you busytoday?
What are you?
What you work on?
Work on today, what's, what arethe things that are top of mind
for you?
Speaker 3 (29:31):
What keeps me busy is family.
That really is.
That's number one, and it'ssuch a blessing to because for
the longest time those yearsfrom June 4th 2011, when I got
married, or even going a fewmonths beyond that before that,
all the way through 20, early2016.
And at that whole span, I felta lot of shame.
A lot of shame about how I wasas a husband.
(29:52):
But, I'll be honest, I felteven more shame sometimes about
who I was as a dad, and I don'tknow I don't necessarily know
why that is or if that's like agood thing or bad, but it's
accurate Like I felt a ton ofshame as a husband, but I think
even more as a dad is I willnever be able to lead these boys
.
I will never be able to mentorthem, hold them accountable,
(30:14):
teach them.
I will never be able to lovethem holistically without all of
this burden of shame.
And so to be able toimperfectly but genuinely
authentically love them andparent them is such a blessing.
But family is a huge piece ofit, but recovery is a giant
piece of it.
I don't like this.
I don't do this for a living.
I'm not a sexual addictiontherapist or a sexual addiction
(30:36):
coach for a living.
Obviously, I do a lot ofcoaching, just ministry wise,
but it's going on podcasts,doing my Instagram work and then
working with guys locally uphere in Alaska.
That's a huge part of my life,of Carrie's life.
Working with guys locally uphere in Alaska.
That's a huge part of my life,of Carrie's life, and I love
basketball.
That's like my one hobby, thatis my, that's my me time and
(30:58):
that is my exercise and that'smy decompression is spend as
much time as I can in the gymplaying basketball.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Love that, Love that.
That's awesome.
You're talking a little bitearlier about mentors,
especially on your in youraddiction recovery, and I think
it's important, when we havementors, that there's probably
been a couple of things thatthey've said or they've done.
Maybe it was an action, butthink back to the mentors that
you've had in your life andwhat's something that they've or
a piece of advice that they'vegiven you that has been so
(31:24):
profound that it's stillaffecting you today.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
There's one thing that always stands out to me
about my mentor, rick price.
That was this was such a kickin the pants and it was such a
great way that that Godintroduced me to him.
This we'd already met, but wemet at a group, a celebrate
recovery group, and it was asurfacy group.
There was no sexual addiction,specific recovery, there was
(31:52):
just general.
Just guys met in one side andwomen.
And he told me as soon as hemet me he was like you need more
than this group has to offer,and so he already had planted
the seeds of you need to dosomething more intentional, more
serious, but I tried to keepthem at arm's length and just do
the bare minimum.
This was several months beforeI got sober, so like the winter
of 2015, 2016.
And at one point I asked himRick, could we get together for
(32:17):
coffee every now and again?
And in my mind I'm like reallyreaching out, I'm trying to do
something.
And he looked at me and Rick isone of the most loving people I
know.
He is a father to me.
He is like my best friendoutside of Carrie.
And he looked at me and Rick isone of the most loving people I
know he is a father to me.
He is like my best friendoutside of Carrie and he's
grandpa, rick, to our boys.
Rick looked at me and he waslike, if you want to get
together for coffee every nowand again, I don't have time for
(32:39):
you and that hurt my feelings,that was offensive to me.
But he quickly followed it upand he goes if you really want
to work on things, I'll walkwith you, but it's not going to
be just getting together forcoffee every now and again.
And he went on to emphasizelike it's not going to be
Logan's plan.
We're going to do thingsdifferently.
(33:00):
It's going to be.
You're going to be giving up alot of freedoms.
It's not going to be easy.
And he absolutely followedthrough on that.
He walked with me hand in handfor those two years in the
program.
He's continued to walk with meas my mentor, as my friend, as
accountability, as a brother inthe trenches.
But that was such an incredibleway that he made it very clear
(33:22):
this is not the Logan program.
And another thing along thosesame lines was this would have
been probably a couple monthslater I had gone, I'd finally
gone, to a prodigal's meeting.
There was a sexual addictionspecific meeting.
But I still wasn't sober yet.
Okay, and remember, I'm at workand he called me and he was
like, hey, how you doing?
(33:42):
And we talked for a minute andthen he was like, hey, and
remember, this is, this guywould go on to become like this
incredible beacon of hope andlove and working with me.
But in this moment he was likehey, I'm not going to call you
again for quite a while Becauseif you want help, you need to be
calling other people.
You need to be the one to reachout.
(34:04):
And out of context that couldsound harsh mean, but looking
back, even in that moment, Ithink I understood his point I
definitely understand it nowwhich was Logan has to take
ownership of his recovery.
Other people can't drag Loganto healing.
Other people can't drag Loganto a place of recovery.
(34:25):
And this gets back to thatpoint of you asked earlier about
spouses, family, parents ofaddicts.
Right, and that is such a hardtruth to understand, but it is
the truth.
Nobody can drag, doesn't matterhow much you love that person,
how much you care how much, howmany resources you may have,
love that person how much youcare how much, how many
(34:46):
resources you may have.
They have to experience enoughbrokenness and pain and
desperation to where they wantit for themselves.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Man.
That just that really hits home.
Logan, as a as I said, as afather of an addict, and when I,
when I say to others, when Italk about it, when I go on
shows, I can't want my son'srecovery more than he does, I
want it more than him, but Ican't want it for him.
(35:12):
He has to do it, and until hechooses to do that, then I have
my choices to make, and so it'salways a struggle.
There's never one personinvolved when addiction comes in
our lives, and when thingshappen in our lives, there's
lots of people who are affected,and what I hear about your
story is that not only have youtaken responsibility and
(35:35):
ownership, but so has, it soundslike your wife Carrie has done
that, especially your mentor,rick.
Everybody has owned their piece, and it isn't necessarily the
Logan program or plan, but youplayed an integral part of it
because you were willing to showup, and so thank you so much
(35:56):
for sharing that.
As we're coming to the close ofthe show today, if there was
anything that we didn't get achance to touch on, what would
be a parting message you'd wantour listeners to take with them?
Speaker 3 (36:10):
So almost every interview closes with a similar
question.
Right, and I've shareddifferent things, but usually
it's along the same lines.
I do feel led to say somethingdifferently, just based on what
you just said.
I do feel led to say somethingdifferently, just based on what
you just said.
So I'll be honest, I'm going tosay it to you, alan, given your
relationship with your son, butI think this would be for
(36:32):
anyone that's in a similar spotIf you care for somebody who is
struggling, who's not currentlychoosing healthy choices.
Something that I cherish now buteven though I didn't quite
didn't quite, I didn't quiteunderstand it I cherished even
in my darkest times was I alwaysknew that my mom was praying
for me.
(36:52):
I always knew that my momwasn't just praying like God,
please deliver him from hisstruggle.
She would tell me she prayedfor God to break me, but that
was encouraging me because Iknew that she loved me enough to
pray that prayer.
My oldest brother, he wassomebody who he loved me enough
(37:16):
to give me some really toughfeedback that I did not like.
That hurt my feelings in somedark times, but he loved me
enough to be real with me, to bestrong and share the truth, my
family and, of course, carrie.
At the end of it all, she lovedme enough to give me an
ultimatum and say I can'tcontrol what you do, I can't
make you, not cheat on me.
But finally she gave me anultimatum in 2015 and said if
(37:38):
you don't get serious help, Iwill leave.
You will lose me and the boys.
So my family couldn't drag me torecovery.
They couldn't fix me, but whatthey could do was be strong
enough and rigid enough, not beflimsy, not be wishy-washy, not
just try to be nice.
I think about it like castlewalls.
(38:00):
They're rigid, right, they'restrong, they're fortified.
They're not gonna feel nice andcozy, but they are strong and
when I'm ready to enter, I'minside a stronghold, like I was
surrounded by people who lovedme enough to be real with me and
not just tell me nice thingsthat were cozy and comfortable
(38:21):
and made me feel warm inside.
But once I was ready to seekrecovery and seek healthy living
, I already had multiple peopleready to be a part of a healthy
infrastructure and that was sucha huge blessing.
So I hope that can beencouraging to you and anyone
listening yeah, you can't draganyone to recovery, but you can
still.
You still play a huge part inthe rest of their lives when
(38:46):
they're ready to seek healthyliving.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Man.
What a powerful way to to wrapup our show there.
I just love that so much.
Thank you, logan, for spendingtime with us today and showing
us that recovering fromaddiction can happen if we're
willing to hear the call toserve and to step into who we
are as men.
And so if any man out therethat's listening to this episode
(39:10):
today, if they're interested ingetting ahold of you or
participating in your work,what's the best way for them to
do that?
Speaker 3 (39:18):
It's absolutely the best way is on Instagram.
I'm at no longer in bondage.
No period longer period inperiod bondage.
Those are words that IInstagram.
I'm at no longer in bondage.
No period longer period inperiod bondage.
Those are words that I cherish,that I'm no longer in bondage
to sexual addiction.
I didn't think I could ever saythose words seven, eight, nine,
10 years ago.
But give me a follow.
I put out daily content justlike what we're talking about
here and if you have a question,feel free to reach out.
(39:40):
If you need help, feel free toreach out.
As I said before, I don'tprovide services for hire, but
if I can be part of a healthyinfrastructure, if I can share
healthy resources, if I can jumpon a zoom call, I will do that.
I'll be one of the hands thatcan reach in and try to help
somebody out of that pit.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Outstanding.
I'm going to make sure we havethat information in today's show
notes and anywhere else thatyou're on the internet.
We'll do a little creeping hereand make sure we get to get
your bases covered for you.
Once again, my friend, thankyou so much for being on the
show.
Loved our conversation.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Thanks, Alan, Appreciate you brother.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Thank you for listening to the revolutionary
man podcast.
Are you ready to own yourdestiny, to become more the man
you are destined to be?
Join the brotherhood that isthe awakened man at
theawakendmannet and startforging a new destiny today.
No, today we're going to embark on a journey through
the shadows, exploring a topicthat many men grapple with in
silence.
It's the topic of addiction,and addiction is a relentless
beast that can tear lives apartand leave devastation in its
wake, and it doesn'tdiscriminate, but it doesn't
show any mercy and can consumeeven the strongest among us.
(00:20):
And so join us today as we'regoing to dive into the depths of
addiction, exploring thestruggles, the triumphs and the
hope that lies on the other side.
And, through my guest stories,we're going to uncover the
resilience not only of the humanspirit, but also the
possibility of what redemptionlooks like in the face of
adversity.
And before we get into today'sepisode, let's come to grips
(00:41):
about.
Another thing is that inevitably, there will come a time when we
will hit a wall, and whetherthat's a marriage that's not
working, or a career or businessthat's stagnated, or maybe your
personal life is just flatline.
So if you're dealing with anyof these, or a combination of
them, and you're finally fed upwith where your life's at, then
allow me to help you get clearabout what needs to get done and
(01:03):
how to go about doing that, soyou can live a life where you
were meant to live.
Just go to theawakenedmannetand download our free setting,
the compass exercise.
Let's get started today Withthat.
Let's get on with today'sepisode.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
The average man today is sleepwalking through life,
many never reaching their truepotential, let alone ever
crossing the finish line toliving a purposeful life.
Yet the hunger still exists,albeit buried amidst his
cluttered mind, misguidedbeliefs and values that no
longer serve him.
It's time to align yourself forgreatness.
(01:42):
It's time to become arevolutionary man.
Stay strong, my brother.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Welcome everyone to the Revolutionary man Podcast.
I'm the founder of the Awakenedman Movement and your host,
alan DeMont.
So do you struggle silentlywith addiction and are you even
at the point of admitting thatyou might have a problem?
When addiction is present, itcan become very affected in all
(02:11):
parts of our life.
It's a journey not only of hopeand anger, frustration, and it
bears the soul of everyonethat's involved in it, as each
player has to reveal tothemselves the part and the
impact that they're having onthe decisions that are being
made.
Once these decisions arepainless, and regardless of
whether you are reigning in thatfight or if you're going to
(02:33):
choose to play the scars thatremain on all of us, then you
need to make a differentdecision.
So how do we go about survivingas addicts, how do we salvage
our lives and how do we repairrelationships?
So these are just some of thequestions we're going to dive
into today's conversation.
So allow me to introduce myguest.
(02:54):
Today I have the privilege ofsharing the story of Logan
Hufford, a man who battled thegrip of addiction and emerged
victorious.
He was born and raised inbreathtaking landscapes of
Alaska.
Emerged victorious.
He was born and raised inbreathtaking landscapes of
Alaska, and I can say that isfor sure, I've been out there
only once.
Just gorgeous part of thisworld, and Logan's life is
deemed seemed to be totallyidyllic when you think about it
(03:15):
on the surface.
Yet beneath that veneer of allthe normalcy lurked a painful
struggle.
It was a battle of sexaddiction that created and
threatened to unravel everythingthat he held so close to
himself, and for years, loganfound himself ensnared in a
cycle of destruction, hismarriage and his very existence
hanging by a thread.
(03:36):
And by 2016, the glimmer ofhope had finally emerged, and it
was through the grace of Godthat the journey of recovery
that Logan found redemption.
So today he stands as thattestament of the power of
resilience, faith and atransformative journey of
recovery.
Welcome to the show, logan.
How are things, my friend?
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Things are good.
I mean that you can hear myvoice.
I'm not feeling very well, butI was not about to let this,
this interview, go by thewayside.
You and I have had the toughesttime.
I've done about a hundredinterviews this year and we've
no one has had a tougher timewith getting our schedules
together than you and me, andI'm like we're going to do this
(04:19):
thing, but truly to be able tosay, yeah, I'm doing well.
I woke up this morning, spenttime with my boys, spent time
with my wife.
I'm here.
I'm going to go home later andspend time with my family and
throughout it all.
Life's not perfect, but I don'thave shame.
I don't have a double life.
(04:40):
I can make mistakes and knowthat I had healthy intentions.
I'm not secretly living indarkness, so life is good.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Oh, that's awesome to hear brother like to hear.
That's this I start for ourshow today, and so, while we're
going to talk a little, we'regoing to talk, obviously, and
touch on the idea of what it'slike to be wrapped, grappling
with the, with addiction.
We're not necessarily going tospend much time in the
nitty-gritty, and of that it'smore about you, the man, and how
that transformative, thattransformation, actually happens
(05:15):
.
So I'd like to start by asking,while I tease them, our
audience, a little bit aboutwhat you've gone through.
Tell us about, though, the time, that darkest time in your life
, when you knew things justneeded to change, and what did
you do about that, and how didthat shape you into the man you
are today?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
yeah, the darkest season of my life really would
be once I was married, once thatthreshold had been crossed,
because, like I, my addictionand my unhealthy behaviors,
(05:52):
addiction to pornography,chasing after attention from
women those things had startedbefore I got married.
But once I was married and Ididn't stop, that's because I
thought that I would stop.
I thought that, okay, I'm likenot making good decisions, I'm
sowing my wild oats or whatever,but I'm not going to do that
once I'm married, like that'd becrazy.
And then I kept doing it.
And then, pretty quickly, wegot pregnant with our oldest,
(06:12):
elijah.
We had Elijah 11 months afterwe got married.
So within a couple months ofmarriage, I got a pregnant wife,
I've got my boy on the way andI've already hired a prostitute.
I've already, I've continuallyhad affairs.
I'm still struggling withpornography and it's only
getting worse.
And from that point on the nextfive years, it was a season, a
(06:40):
five-year season of self-hatred.
A five-year season ofself-hatred, despair, complete
hopelessness.
I the entire time I believed inthe existence of god, but it
was like, obviously I'm not cutout to be part of god's family,
to be a christian because I justkeep screwing up, I keep doing
(07:01):
all this evil.
That's not.
It's not for me, obviously.
It was just this whole wishingthat God had never created me,
wishing that Carrie had adifferent man for a husband,
wishing that those boys you knowcould have possibly had a
different man for their dad.
And that's such a dark place tolive, but that's where I lived
(07:21):
for a lot of years.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Man, that's so painful.
Just listening to that andhearing you go through that
struggle and continue to workthrough that struggle it's.
I think it's something that wedon't ever totally fully
overcome, necessarily.
I think it's.
There's always those scars thatare left with us, as we talked
about in the intro, coming intothe, coming into this episode,
but and yet you still had enoughof a glimmer of hope to turn
(07:49):
towards your faith, to help liftyou from the place you're at.
And so when you think backabout how this addiction started
, let's go back into childhood.
Do you think were there anythings that were happening in
childhood that pushed youtowards that or drawn you
towards this type of this typeof lifestyle?
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Yeah, this is something that I have looked at
so many times, whether it'sthrough interviews like this,
obviously, in my recovery workwe did deep therapeutic work in
the recovery program and theshort answer is not really
there's no perfect life, there'sno perfect childhood.
But, like, my childhood was achildhood where two statements
that are very these are verypowerful statements I look I
know now, and yet these wereboth true.
(08:32):
There was never a day in mylife where I didn't feel loved.
There was never a day in mylife where I didn't feel safe.
Like I realize now, most peoplecannot make those statements
about their childhood, and yet Ihonestly can.
And yet I still got intoaddiction.
I still chased after more anddifferent and more perverse, and
(08:57):
I chased after sin.
I chased after the highs.
The dopamine hits, hits, allthese things I, you know what.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
I just want to touch a little bit on that.
Thank you so much for bringingthat, this point forward for us
today.
What you're, what?
I don't want anybody listeningto this episode thinking that
for someone to be have anaddiction, an addiction means
that they came from a brokenfamily, there was stuff that
wasn't working at home.
This can happen and does happento any of us all of us and so
(09:38):
it's really important that weunderstand that when we're
talking about addiction, that itisn't that there was something
going wrong necessarily, but thechallenge is that we have it's
things that are within us, thatare inside of us.
That needs some nurturing andsome work.
And one of the things that youknow, having dealt with that in
(09:59):
my life and in my family, myoldest son is an addict.
He struggles with makinghealthy decisions around drugs
and alcohol and is in and out ofincarceration, and he's been
like that since he was 16.
So right through juvenile andhe's in his early 30s now and,
as the parent or as a spouse,what do you think is going on
(10:20):
for them and how do you thinkthat, as that person now who's
obviously involved deeply in thelives, what advice do you give
for those folks that arestruggling when they may have
someone who's a family member,who's an addict?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
In the family of an addict.
On one hand, you know, maybeI'll never know, but at the same
time I get glimpses of whatthat looks like the struggle
with codependency, the strugglewith wanting to fix that kind of
thing.
I'm sure there's tons of commondenominators between being the
spouse of an addict and beingthe parent of an addict,
Although there's definitely somestrong differences too.
And I'll share a little bitfrom my wife Carrie's
(10:58):
perspective, and everything I'llshare from her perspective is
straight from her mouth.
None of this is speculation orguesswork.
This is all stuff that shewould actively share in her
testimony.
For a long time, especially withmy specific addiction, it
wasn't just that I was choosingdrugs over my family, choosing
alcohol over my family.
I'm choosing another woman tohave sex with.
(11:19):
That's a very strong addictionand betrayal and abandonment of
family.
And so she for years thoughtthat I was choosing my addiction
, choosing pornography and otherwomen, because she wasn't
enough, because she must need togive me something different or
give me something more.
(11:40):
She needs to probably lookdifferent or be more available.
She thought those thingsbecause that would be a logical
assumption, right, and that wasa giant part of recovery for
both of us, but especially forher, is recognizing.
No, it wasn't about she's notenough or that I didn't love her
, that she wasn't attractive.
(12:01):
It's.
I trained myself to chase afternew and different and more.
And Carrie can't be that.
She can only be herself for aspouse, especially with sexual
addiction.
But I, honestly, I I wouldimagine this part is speculation
, but I would imagine that thosesame principles are at play
with other addictions.
Somebody that's an alcoholic.
It's not that the taste ofalcohol tastes better than any
(12:26):
other liquid.
It's not that a drug addict,that being high is their
favorite thing in the world.
Now, there definitely arepeople where those the taste of
alcohol or the feeling of beinghigh it, but there's plenty of
people where it's gone way pastthat point.
It's not about enjoyment, it'sabout this is how I live life.
It wasn't.
(12:46):
Oh, I need to find someone whois, who makes me feel better
than Carrie, makes me feel ithad nothing to do with that, it
was.
I'm chasing after these hits,these highs, and the darker, the
more forbidden, the more riskythe behavior is, the bigger, the
high I get.
It wasn't that somebody wasbetter than Carrie.
(13:08):
That's a huge part of it.
Is just recognizing.
It's not a logical, it's not amath equation this plus this
equals this.
No, it's not that at all.
I'd gotten myself to a pointwhere my limbic system was that
was the overriding driver of mybehavior.
You know, not my thinking brainPrefrontal cortex was back
there sleeping.
(13:29):
It was my limbic system runningthings.
And that's not to give me anexcuse, that's not to say that I
didn't know what I was doing orthat it was my addiction that
was choosing things.
No, not at all.
I fully reject that.
I chose my decisions.
But it is also true that thefurther I got into my addiction,
the harder it became to makehealthy choices.
(13:51):
Yes, and that is that's abalance that I always hope that
people can understand,especially folks outside of the
addiction world is both of those.
Things are true, I'm responsiblefor my choices, but it also
becomes harder and harder tomake a healthy choice.
The further I get intoaddiction because I'm
responsible for my choices, butit also becomes harder and
harder to make a healthy choice,the further I get into
addiction, because I'm literallywiring my brain.
I'm re wiring my brain in avery dark and corrupt way, and
(14:14):
that's not like a metaphor.
That's that, literally, ishappening.
My neural pathways are gettingchanged and I can come back from
that, and that's a beautifulpart about recovery is that I
can come back from that.
But that's a beautiful partabout recovery is that I can
come back from that.
But it's not going to be easy.
It's not.
There's no toggle switch that Ican just flip off and go okay,
now I'm healthy again.
It's going to take years ofwork.
Sexual addiction specifically,it's four to six years.
(14:37):
I think is the range of four tosix years of sobriety and
active recovery is usually whatit's going to take before
somebody is unlikely to relapse.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
That's a lot of, that's a long time and a lot of
work, and so it takes a strongfoundation to be able to do that
work in, and so I'm reallygrateful to hear that you have
that for you, because a lot oftimes that doesn't always exist
for folks, and so it's importantfor all of us to understand.
I'm glad that you're making thecomment that two things can be
(15:10):
true at the same time, andbecause it is important to
understand that when your limbicsystem starts to take over and
starts making decisions, it'sbecome something that it's much
more challenging, and it is nota simple one plus one math
equation.
It's incredibly complexequation, really that you're
(15:31):
trying to that you're trying towork through and understand, and
you I know that said that thedefinition of addiction is
something that I can quit on myown, but then you were talked
about.
That doesn't always mean thatyou're necessarily going to take
responsibility for choices, butbut you have been taking
responsibility, you've beenmaking that really clear in this
and that every time thatthere's a step forward, there
(15:54):
might be a bit of a relapse andthen there's some more steps
forward and then it comes back.
So the journey is never astraight line, talk a little bit
about some of those challengesthat you've been, that you faced
, and what were some of somestrategies that you used to help
you keep yourself on thestraight and narrow.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yeah, the nonlinear aspect of it is a huge part of
it.
And on one hand, I do see alittle bit of the narrative
sometimes, like on Instagram orin some resources for addiction
that where it's like, hey,relapse is just part of the
journey, relapse is just part ofrecovery.
And on one hand, I don't wantto like attack somebody just
based on a meme that I saw, butthere there is a narrative out
(16:36):
there that kind of says that andI push back on that Relapse is
not part of recovery, relapse isnot a an okay thing.
If it happens, then, yeah, thebest thing I can do is jump back
on the horse, jump back intogroup, jump back into
conversation with mentors andsponsors and work and keep
working on myself, as opposed tooh crap, I relapsed, I'm just
(17:00):
the same old me, I'm nodifferent, I'm never going to be
healthy.
So, yeah, relapse is not anexcuse to give up, but I do need
to come to a point where I seerelapse as an avoidable thing
that I don't need to ever doagain, and that's a far cry from
relapse as a part of recovery.
(17:20):
Now, unhealthy choices.
I think it's safe to say thatunhealthy choices are just going
to be a part of life.
Again, not that they're okay,but I'm going to make unhealthy
choices.
But here's the thing theunhealthy choices that I have
made and that I will make, thefallout from those choices, the
(17:42):
consequences from those choicesShould decrease over time.
Those choices should decreaseover time and then the frequency
between how often am I makingthose unhealthy choices should
also that should increase, right, in terms of between unhealthy
choices.
An example the first year ofrecovery, the first year of
(18:02):
sobriety, of not acting out.
So no porn, no sexual behaviorwith other women, no
masturbation that first year Imade some terrible choices and I
put myself right up to thepoint of acting out.
I remember one time I wanted tolook up some artist or some
song and I this was absolutelythe MO of how I used to do
(18:23):
things where I'd go down arabbit trail.
Maybe it didn't start out thatI was looking for something bad,
but then pretty quickly, I'mseeing something and I'm, and so
eventually it got to the pointwhere, within maybe a minute of,
I'm trying to find a song.
I'm looking at, like Google,images of album covers, but it's
a bunch of scantily clad women,not the kind of stuff I should
(18:43):
be looking at, and I don'tremember if it was three seconds
of looking at that or 30seconds.
But you know, within a matterof some seconds I'm like, oh,
this is not good, I need to stopdoing this.
And I clicked off it and I didreport that to my mentor.
That's a that's pretty extreme.
That's right up there with somepeople would even classify that
as okay.
I, hey, we're going to chalkthat up as you were looking at
(19:05):
porn.
So that was an unhealthy choiceI made within that first year.
It's been a long time sinceI've done something like that,
but I still make unhealthychoices.
You know if I, if a pop-up adcomes up and I click off of it,
but before I click off of it Idouble take it that ad for just
a quarter second and then Iclick off it, that's still an
(19:32):
unhealthy choice.
And so the types of choices Imake, I should be making less
and less of them over time and Ishouldn't be doing the same
stuff, same thing, with anger.
I get angry still, but it's I'mnot lashing out.
I'm not acting out in rage theway that I used to several years
ago.
You asked about tools, some ofthe things I can do to own this
stuff and to work on this stuff.
The number one tool that I usedin recovery was required of me
(19:53):
because I was in basically avoluntary house arrest program.
I had a lot of autonomystripped away from me.
I had to make a phone callevery single day, and not a
phone call that was just like tomy mom or to my friend or to my
brother-in-law Not that there'sanything wrong with that.
(20:14):
This had to be a phone callthat was just like to my mom or
to my friend or to mybrother-in-law not that there's
anything wrong with that.
This had to be a phone callthat was outgoing.
So it's not you calling me tocheck up, it's me taking the
initiative to call a recoverybrother, a brother or a sponsor
mentor, specifically in therecovery, to check in with how
my day has been.
Now there's other ways that Ican do that.
It doesn't have to be on aphone call, but anything that I
can do to download, to take allthe stressor, not just sexual
(20:35):
temptations, but all thestressors, all the frustrations,
all the things I'm strugglingwith, all the types of things
that in the past I've hadtrouble coping with and I just
put it out there and baddecisions that I've made,
temptations to make baddecisions.
So I'm not talking about thefootball game on Monday night.
I'm not talking about excitingweekend plans.
(20:56):
I'm talking about the garbagethat I struggle with Right and
I'm owning my part.
And then here's the key After Iget done, getting current if
I'm getting current with Alan,I'm on the phone or we're at a
meeting, I'm getting currentwith you.
When I'm done speaking my piece,I share my day or my week, I
have to shut up and listen andthen you can ask me whatever
(21:17):
questions you want, you can giveme whatever feedback you want,
and I'm not allowed to talk.
Unless you ask me a question,I'm not allowed to talk.
That was the single on atangible level, just a practical
tool.
That was the single on atangible level, just a practical
tool.
That was the single best thingthat I learned in recovery was
that muscle of shut up andlisten, absorb.
I don't necessarily have to doeverything you tell me to do,
(21:37):
but I have to at least considerit.
I have to try it on and chew onit man, that's a heck of a way
to get the limbic system shifted.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Yeah, no kidding.
And because now you're in aposition where really it's about
looking at moving that sense ofcontrol that you have a way is
you have to now be able to sitin.
What was what is happening.
And so what I like about thatis it does force you to put it
be in a different position.
And I want to just expand alittle bit on this, because one
(22:08):
of the things, something thathappened to in my marriage of
almost 10 years ago now is thatI had an affair and it just
about cost me that marriage aspart of the reason, one of the
big parts of the reason why Igot into doing the men's work
and doing podcasting and thiskind of work.
And so, as I'm telling this sideof the story I just wanted to
get into for me, you talkedabout your outgoing call, daily
(22:29):
call, and I know for me one ofthe things to rebuild trust in
the relationship was that wasone of those things, was the,
was the making sure to call hey,I'm leaving the office, I'm,
I'm coming home now and I woulddo that in the past before, but
sometimes wouldn't be thatconsistent, and even to this day
now it's something that'sreally important to me because,
(22:51):
from an integrity perspective,and how I see myself today
versus how I saw myself then isdifferent, and so let's talk a
little bit about some of theother things that you've done to
help rebuild trust, especiallyin the, in your marriage and
with the kids.
What are some other things thatyou've been doing to help build
that?
And also then it helps shapeyou into, to a different type of
(23:17):
man and how you see yourselfand that aspect of it as well.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, Building trust within the family, within the
marriage.
That's, that's huge, andthere's some common denominators
that are largely going to betrue in any couple.
And then, of course, there'sthat's huge, and there's some
common denominators that arelargely going to be true in any
couple.
And then, of course, there'ssome that are going to depend on
what the wife wants or what thehusbands are.
I mean, in this case I'mthinking about the man side, but
the person who has done thebetraying, whether that's the
man or the woman, what theirpast has been, what their MO has
(23:43):
been, For instance.
Some wives cause, like my wifeCarrie.
She works with women in thesexual betrayal trauma healing
space, so she works with otherwomen just like women had worked
with her in the past right.
There's some women that they'regoing to to your point about
checking in on the way home.
There's some women that aregoing to want that and some
women that are gonna like, no, Idon't want to be your
(24:05):
babysitter, I don't want you tocall your mentor, you check in
with him.
That was much more like Carrie.
I had done so much oversharinglike unhealthy oversharing,
vomiting that she actuallydidn't want me to check in with
her a bunch.
She wanted me to do that withthe guys.
Now there's another lady.
It's interesting I just sharedthis example yesterday in a
(24:27):
podcast that one of the coupleswho we've gotten to know really
well over the last few years.
I have a huge amount of respectfor the man and for the wife for
the work that they've beendoing for several years now.
She's taken almost the oppositeapproach that Carrie took.
She's taken a very hands-onapproach.
She wants to know what's goingon.
She wants him to check in withher.
But there's a reason for that.
In his addiction he was verymuch the opposite of me.
(24:48):
We both did unhealthy betrayal,but he was much more
introverted, much more hiddenand much more of closed off and
emotionally anorexic.
And so she wants him to checkin, because he never checked in
before.
So it's basically I'm justtrying to say there's not
necessarily the right way andthe wrong way that I need to be.
If I'm in this space, if I'mstruggling, I need to be
(25:11):
checking in, but whether it'swith my wife or with a mentor,
like, that's where it's going todepend, and it shouldn't be up
to the addict, it shouldn't beup to the guy, it's up to the
mentorship team and up to thespouse.
Yeah, I mean something I had todo and this was my mentor's,
this was his rule that when hewas working with me I think it
was for the first several monthsyeah, when I got to work, I had
(25:31):
to text him a selfie.
If I went to lunch, I'd have totext a picture of me at lunch.
Selfie back to work, selfie thewhole nine yards, absolutely.
(25:52):
And so with Carrie, even thoughshe wasn't getting all the
check-ins, she knew that I waschecking in and we were blessed
where her mentor was my mentor'swife.
So my mentor Rick and hermentor Patty were married, and
so there was if she, if Carrie,wanted to know something, there
was a line of communicationthere.
She knew that it wasn't, thatthere was a.
There weren't hidden secrets,it's just I wasn't going to be
pelting her with every singletime I'm tempted.
It's all that stuff was goingto recovery brothers when we're
at the house.
She's free to ask any questionat any point, just on some of
(26:15):
these things like should beobvious, but I'll definitely
state them just to make surethat they're stated.
My phone, obviously she's got.
She knows my password.
I can tell you right now it'snot that often that she gets on
my phone unless she's like usingit to check something that like
an app that I have that shedoesn't understand.
She doesn't get on my phone andcheck my messages a bunch, but
she absolutely has permission to.
At any given point in myaddiction I wouldn't pair my
(26:36):
phone up to the Bluetoothusually when we're driving,
because I wouldn't want a callto come in or a text to come in
and then she hears the peeingover the speakers.
So it's because I had all thesethese different things in
motion that I was trying to hideand so just being able to have
the phone face up or have thephone hooked up to the car
stereo and not worry about it,cause if a call comes in or a
(26:57):
text comes in.
If it's from a woman or not,I'm not worried, because if it's
from a woman, it's not from awoman that I'm doing anything
inappropriate with, and sothere's that freedom, right.
But yeah, carrie, making surethat she is free to ask any
question, because it's one thing, like I can tell my wife hey,
you can ask me whatever you want, anything you want to know,
(27:19):
I'll tell you.
I can say those words.
But then if she does that, sheasks me a question, she checks
in on a red flag and I getdefensive or I gaslight her or I
try to bully her.
And what am I doing?
I told her she can ask me anyquestion, but my body language
and my verbiage and my actualbehavior tells her you can't ask
(27:42):
me anything.
I'm going to bully you, you'renot free to ask anything.
And I did that at variouspoints in the past where I would
get so defensive and I wouldtry to gaslight her and bully
her, and so she didn't.
She was taught very early inher recovery Don't go by what
Logan is telling you andpromising you.
Go by his behavior, because hisbehavior over a period of time,
(28:03):
that's what you can trust.
That's what you can trust and,by God's grace, yeah, we're at a
point where she can trust mywords.
We're also almost nine yearsinto recovery.
It wasn't an overnight thing.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
No for sure not.
That's awesome.
Those are great points to forus to recognize right that it
then something's going to bedifferent, for the recovery
process is going to be differentfor each couple as we go
through it.
And, yeah, sometimes they wantmore of that.
That check-in, I know for us itwas.
It wasn't necessarily somethingthat my wife asked for, it was
something I felt I needed to do.
Same idea with the phone, andto this day it's here it is,
(28:38):
have be an open book.
I think for some of us that andI'm, I would say I'd lean
towards the introvert side of it, so haven't been in the past, I
hadn't been great at expressingemotion or letting things,
letting people know what wasreally going on with me, and so
that's really been a work ofwork for my work.
To do that really has helpedchange.
(28:59):
And it sounds like you yourecognize that part, that shadow
part of yourself that wasgetting you into the positions
where you weren't making healthydecisions, was the piece that
you needed to work on.
And I think that's really keythat we understand that
everyone's going to have alittle different part of that's
going to play a little differentpart in their life.
And when you recognize that andyou start to work on, that's
when things start to momentumstarts to change.
(29:21):
And I want to come closer totoday.
What's what keeps you busytoday?
What are you?
What you work on?
Work on today, what's, what arethe things that are top of mind
for you?
Speaker 3 (29:31):
What keeps me busy is family.
That really is.
That's number one, and it'ssuch a blessing to because for
the longest time those yearsfrom June 4th 2011, when I got
married, or even going a fewmonths beyond that before that,
all the way through 20, early2016.
And at that whole span, I felta lot of shame.
A lot of shame about how I wasas a husband.
(29:52):
But, I'll be honest, I felteven more shame sometimes about
who I was as a dad, and I don'tknow I don't necessarily know
why that is or if that's like agood thing or bad, but it's
accurate Like I felt a ton ofshame as a husband, but I think
even more as a dad is I willnever be able to lead these boys
.
I will never be able to mentorthem, hold them accountable,
(30:14):
teach them.
I will never be able to lovethem holistically without all of
this burden of shame.
And so to be able toimperfectly but genuinely
authentically love them andparent them is such a blessing.
But family is a huge piece ofit, but recovery is a giant
piece of it.
I don't like this.
I don't do this for a living.
I'm not a sexual addictiontherapist or a sexual addiction
(30:36):
coach for a living.
Obviously, I do a lot ofcoaching, just ministry wise,
but it's going on podcasts,doing my Instagram work and then
working with guys locally uphere in Alaska.
That's a huge part of my life,of Carrie's life.
Working with guys locally uphere in Alaska.
That's a huge part of my life,of Carrie's life, and I love
basketball.
That's like my one hobby, thatis my, that's my me time and
(30:58):
that is my exercise and that'smy decompression is spend as
much time as I can in the gymplaying basketball.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Love that, Love that.
That's awesome.
You're talking a little bitearlier about mentors,
especially on your in youraddiction recovery, and I think
it's important, when we havementors, that there's probably
been a couple of things thatthey've said or they've done.
Maybe it was an action, butthink back to the mentors that
you've had in your life andwhat's something that they've or
a piece of advice that they'vegiven you that has been so
(31:24):
profound that it's stillaffecting you today.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
There's one thing that always stands out to me
about my mentor, rick price.
That was this was such a kickin the pants and it was such a
great way that that Godintroduced me to him.
This we'd already met, but wemet at a group, a celebrate
recovery group, and it was asurfacy group.
There was no sexual addiction,specific recovery, there was
(31:52):
just general.
Just guys met in one side andwomen.
And he told me as soon as hemet me he was like you need more
than this group has to offer,and so he already had planted
the seeds of you need to dosomething more intentional, more
serious, but I tried to keepthem at arm's length and just do
the bare minimum.
This was several months beforeI got sober, so like the winter
of 2015, 2016.
And at one point I asked himRick, could we get together for
(32:17):
coffee every now and again?
And in my mind I'm like reallyreaching out, I'm trying to do
something.
And he looked at me and Rick isone of the most loving people I
know.
He is a father to me.
He is like my best friendoutside of Carrie.
And he looked at me and Rick isone of the most loving people I
know he is a father to me.
He is like my best friendoutside of Carrie and he's
grandpa, rick, to our boys.
Rick looked at me and he waslike, if you want to get
together for coffee every nowand again, I don't have time for
(32:39):
you and that hurt my feelings,that was offensive to me.
But he quickly followed it upand he goes if you really want
to work on things, I'll walkwith you, but it's not going to
be just getting together forcoffee every now and again.
And he went on to emphasizelike it's not going to be
Logan's plan.
We're going to do thingsdifferently.
(33:00):
It's going to be.
You're going to be giving up alot of freedoms.
It's not going to be easy.
And he absolutely followedthrough on that.
He walked with me hand in handfor those two years in the
program.
He's continued to walk with meas my mentor, as my friend, as
accountability, as a brother inthe trenches.
But that was such an incredibleway that he made it very clear
(33:22):
this is not the Logan program.
And another thing along thosesame lines was this would have
been probably a couple monthslater I had gone, I'd finally
gone, to a prodigal's meeting.
There was a sexual addictionspecific meeting.
But I still wasn't sober yet.
Okay, and remember, I'm at workand he called me and he was
like, hey, how you doing?
(33:42):
And we talked for a minute andthen he was like, hey, and
remember, this is, this guywould go on to become like this
incredible beacon of hope andlove and working with me.
But in this moment he was likehey, I'm not going to call you
again for quite a while Becauseif you want help, you need to be
calling other people.
You need to be the one to reachout.
(34:04):
And out of context that couldsound harsh mean, but looking
back, even in that moment, Ithink I understood his point I
definitely understand it nowwhich was Logan has to take
ownership of his recovery.
Other people can't drag Loganto healing.
Other people can't drag Loganto a place of recovery.
(34:25):
And this gets back to thatpoint of you asked earlier about
spouses, family, parents ofaddicts.
Right, and that is such a hardtruth to understand, but it is
the truth.
Nobody can drag, doesn't matterhow much you love that person,
how much you care how much, howmany resources you may have,
love that person how much youcare how much, how many
(34:46):
resources you may have.
They have to experience enoughbrokenness and pain and
desperation to where they wantit for themselves.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Man.
That just that really hits home.
Logan, as a as I said, as afather of an addict, and when I,
when I say to others, when Italk about it, when I go on
shows, I can't want my son'srecovery more than he does, I
want it more than him, but Ican't want it for him.
(35:12):
He has to do it, and until hechooses to do that, then I have
my choices to make, and so it'salways a struggle.
There's never one personinvolved when addiction comes in
our lives, and when thingshappen in our lives, there's
lots of people who are affected,and what I hear about your
story is that not only have youtaken responsibility and
(35:35):
ownership, but so has, it soundslike your wife Carrie has done
that, especially your mentor,rick.
Everybody has owned their piece, and it isn't necessarily the
Logan program or plan, but youplayed an integral part of it
because you were willing to showup, and so thank you so much
(35:56):
for sharing that.
As we're coming to the close ofthe show today, if there was
anything that we didn't get achance to touch on, what would
be a parting message you'd wantour listeners to take with them?
Speaker 3 (36:10):
So almost every interview closes with a similar
question.
Right, and I've shareddifferent things, but usually
it's along the same lines.
I do feel led to say somethingdifferently, just based on what
you just said.
I do feel led to say somethingdifferently, just based on what
you just said.
So I'll be honest, I'm going tosay it to you, alan, given your
relationship with your son, butI think this would be for
(36:32):
anyone that's in a similar spotIf you care for somebody who is
struggling, who's not currentlychoosing healthy choices.
Something that I cherish now buteven though I didn't quite
didn't quite, I didn't quiteunderstand it I cherished even
in my darkest times was I alwaysknew that my mom was praying
for me.
(36:52):
I always knew that my momwasn't just praying like God,
please deliver him from hisstruggle.
She would tell me she prayedfor God to break me, but that
was encouraging me because Iknew that she loved me enough to
pray that prayer.
My oldest brother, he wassomebody who he loved me enough
(37:16):
to give me some really toughfeedback that I did not like.
That hurt my feelings in somedark times, but he loved me
enough to be real with me, to bestrong and share the truth, my
family and, of course, carrie.
At the end of it all, she lovedme enough to give me an
ultimatum and say I can'tcontrol what you do, I can't
make you, not cheat on me.
But finally she gave me anultimatum in 2015 and said if
(37:38):
you don't get serious help, Iwill leave.
You will lose me and the boys.
So my family couldn't drag me torecovery.
They couldn't fix me, but whatthey could do was be strong
enough and rigid enough, not beflimsy, not be wishy-washy, not
just try to be nice.
I think about it like castlewalls.
(38:00):
They're rigid, right, they'restrong, they're fortified.
They're not gonna feel nice andcozy, but they are strong and
when I'm ready to enter, I'minside a stronghold, like I was
surrounded by people who lovedme enough to be real with me and
not just tell me nice thingsthat were cozy and comfortable
(38:21):
and made me feel warm inside.
But once I was ready to seekrecovery and seek healthy living
, I already had multiple peopleready to be a part of a healthy
infrastructure and that was sucha huge blessing.
So I hope that can beencouraging to you and anyone
listening yeah, you can't draganyone to recovery, but you can
still.
You still play a huge part inthe rest of their lives when
(38:46):
they're ready to seek healthyliving.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Man.
What a powerful way to to wrapup our show there.
I just love that so much.
Thank you, logan, for spendingtime with us today and showing
us that recovering fromaddiction can happen if we're
willing to hear the call toserve and to step into who we
are as men.
And so if any man out therethat's listening to this episode
(39:10):
today, if they're interested ingetting ahold of you or
participating in your work,what's the best way for them to
do that?
Speaker 3 (39:18):
It's absolutely the best way is on Instagram.
I'm at no longer in bondage.
No period longer period inperiod bondage.
Those are words that IInstagram.
I'm at no longer in bondage.
No period longer period inperiod bondage.
Those are words that I cherish,that I'm no longer in bondage
to sexual addiction.
I didn't think I could ever saythose words seven, eight, nine,
10 years ago.
But give me a follow.
I put out daily content justlike what we're talking about
here and if you have a question,feel free to reach out.
(39:40):
If you need help, feel free toreach out.
As I said before, I don'tprovide services for hire, but
if I can be part of a healthyinfrastructure, if I can share
healthy resources, if I can jumpon a zoom call, I will do that.
I'll be one of the hands thatcan reach in and try to help
somebody out of that pit.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Outstanding.
I'm going to make sure we havethat information in today's show
notes and anywhere else thatyou're on the internet.
We'll do a little creeping hereand make sure we get to get
your bases covered for you.
Once again, my friend, thankyou so much for being on the
show.
Loved our conversation.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Thanks, Alan, Appreciate you brother.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Thank you for listening to the revolutionary
man podcast.
Are you ready to own yourdestiny, to become more the man
you are destined to be?
Join the brotherhood that isthe awakened man at
theawakendmannet and startforging a new destiny today.
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