August 10, 2025 • 49 mins
Let me know your thoughts on the show and what topic you would like me to discuss next.
What if the stress and pressure you've been taught are necessary for success are actually holding you back? Dr. Brian Hite, high-performance psychologist and professional stuntman with over 30 years of experience in Hollywood and elite military training, shares groundbreaking insights that challenge everything we think we know about performing under pressure.
Drawing from both Eastern and Western philosophies, Brian reveals that pressure isn't something inherent in situations—it exists only in our minds when we focus on potential consequences rather than present actions. He carefully distinguishes between stress (which stems from perceiving situations as threatening) and pressure (which comes from fixating on future outcomes), offering a revolutionary framework for eliminating both.
Through his Phase X methodology, Brian breaks down performance into four critical phases—before, right before, during, and after—providing actionable strategies for managing your physical, mental, emotional, and social states in each phase. This structured approach transforms overwhelming high-stakes moments into manageable processes where you can maintain focus on what truly matters.
Perhaps most compelling is Brian's insight about opportunity in challenging situations. He explains that seizing opportunities requires three elements: the awareness to recognize possibilities, the flexibility to pivot from established paths, and the courage to take that first step into the unknown. His concept of the "point of no return"—that liberating moment where commitment becomes complete and anxiety often vanishes—offers a powerful reframe for anyone facing difficult decisions.
Whether you're struggling with career challenges, relationship conversations, or personal growth obstacles, Brian's practical wisdom will help you transform how you experience life's most demanding moments. Stop enduring pressure and start eliminating it. Your path to peak performance begins with mastering the present moment.
Key moments in this episode:
03:11 Brian's Journey and Insights
11:03 Defining High Stakes and Pressure
13:16 Eastern and Western Philosophies on Stress
17:15 Understanding Pressure vs. Stress
22:41 The Role of Arousal in Performance
25:13 Boosting Motivation and Managing Pressure
27:57 Understanding Phase X Program
28:48 Implementing Mental Skills in the Military
30:04 Four Phases of Performance
33:27 Applying Phase X in Everyday Life
37:43 Self-Awareness, Acceptance, and Self-Regulation
42:13 Recognizing and Seizing Opportunities
46:31 Final Thoughts and Contact Information
How to reach Brian:
Website: https://www.brianhiteglobal.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brian.hite1/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianchite/
Thanks for listening to the Revolutionary Man Podcast. For more information about our programs, please use the links below to learn more about us. It could be the step that changes your life.
Want to be a guest on The Revolutionary Man Podcast? Send Alain Dumonceaux a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/revolutionarymanpodcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
I'd just like you to imagine standing at the edge of
a high-stakes moment in yourlife your body's tenses, your
mind's racing, and the weight ofexpectation is pressing down on
you.
Now, whether that's in yourcareer, relationship or personal
growth, we're all going toexperience moments where the
pressure feels overwhelming.
But what if the stress and thepressure weren't necessary for
(00:25):
success?
What if the key to peakperformance wasn't about pushing
hard, but learning how tochannel energy, focus and
resilience in a way thatactually enhances our abilities?
Today, we're going to uncoverhow mastering performance
psychology, reframing pressureand adapting to a structured
approach to high-stakessituations can truly unlock our
(00:46):
true potential.
So no matter what arena thatwe're playing in, so if you've
struggled with stress andpressure or feeling stuck under
the weight of expectations, Ithink this episode is going to
be for you.
So take a moment to hit like,subscribe and share this episode
with someone who needs to hearit.
It's your support thatcontinues to bring powerful
conversations that we're havingthat equip men with the tools to
(01:06):
lead with clarity, confidenceand peak performance, and with
that, get on with today'sepisode.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
The average man today is sleepwalking through life,
many never reaching their truepotential, let alone ever
crossing the finish line toliving a purposeful life.
Yet the hunger still exists,albeit buried amidst his
cluttered mind, misguidedbeliefs and values that no
longer serve him.
It's time to align yourself forgreatness.
(01:36):
It's time to become arevolutionary man.
Stay strong, my brother.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Welcome everyone to the Revolutionary man podcast.
I'm the founder of the Awakenedman Movement and your host,
Alan DeMonso.
What if the stress and pressureyou've conditioned yourself to
believe are necessary forsuccess are actually holding you
back from reaching your fullpotential?
And how would your life changeif you could master the ability
(02:05):
to stay calm, focused and incontrol in every high-stakes
situation?
Pressure isn't something thatwe have to suffer through.
It's something we can learn tonavigate and maybe even
eliminate.
And today we're going to explorethe science of high-performance
psychology and how we can breakfree from stress and
uncertainty to operate at ourpeak.
To do that, allow me tointroduce my guest today, Brian
(02:28):
Heitz, a PhD, and he's a highperformance psychologist,
professional stuntman and expertin mastering high stakes
situations, and he's got over 30years of experience in
Hollywood, elite militarytraining and organizational
psychology.
He, Brian, helps leaders,athletes and professionals
reframe stress and pressure tounlock their peak performance,
and through his groundbreakingprograms like Phase X and his
(02:52):
podcast Flow Under Fire, Brian'sbeen empowering individuals to
navigate challenges with clarity, confidence and resilience.
Brian, welcome to the show,brother.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
How are things, my friend?
That's great.
Thank you very much for havingme.
Yeah, I'm really lookingforward to this conversation.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
It's been a while since we've had someone talk
about this specific topic, andso, as you know, here at the
Revolutionary man Podcast, wealways talk about everyone being
on their hero's quest, and myquestion for you is to tell us
about that time, that moment inyour life when you knew things
had to change, that death andrebirth moment, how that
experience shaped you into theman you are today and the work
(03:28):
you're doing.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yeah, there isn't one .
That moment comes every singleday.
It comes sometimes multipletimes a day.
There's a reason why the veryfirst business that I started
when I left the sportperformance psychology with the
army was called begin again, andthere's a reason why my book is
called begin again as well.
Begin again.
(03:49):
Utilize the wisdom of Easternand Western ideologies to
achieve your full potential.
I believe very strongly that weconstantly, always, begin again
, because the only thing we haveis this present moment.
So what has passed is done.
We're consistently reinventingourselves and the moment and
just starting over.
So I can't say that there's adefinitive life-changing moment.
(04:13):
There have just been so many ofthem.
So many times when I've, forwhatever reason, wherever it
came from, an epiphany struck,some sort of insight happened
that pushed me in a differentdirection.
Sometimes it's small, likeduring the pandemic picking up
playing cards again and startingto do sleight of hand with
magic.
That's been.
(04:34):
It's been so much fun and it'sbeen.
It's introduced me to a lot ofpeople.
It's changed a lot of thingsabout my life.
It wasn't a big, huge, dramaticinsight that I had Some
lightning bolt moment, it wasjust I haven't done magic in a
while.
Why don't we start that again.
But it's completely changedeverything.
I've met so many cool peopleand gotten to do so many fun
things, so I don't have that onedramatic.
(04:57):
Let me tell you about this lifealtering moment in my life.
I just they happen all the time.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
You know, what I like about that is that that's true.
We don't necessarily have tohave these epiphany moments.
If we're staying in the present, as you're talking about and I
think that's part of ourchallenge too is we feel maybe
we feel that our lives aren't asart is impactful because we
haven't had that great ahamoment.
But if we're willing to payattention, like you're talking
about picking up cards again anddoing some magic during the
(05:28):
pandemic, it shows that we'represent and we're able to really
take in and appreciate what wehave in front of us.
You have a really incrediblecareer.
I talked a little bit about itin the intro.
It's from Hollywood to stuntwork and coaching in the elite
military personnel.
But what led you to specializefor a while anyways with high
performance psychology?
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Yeah, you talk about those moments again.
There are a lot, and one ofthem was when I was in college
and I was 20 years old and I waslost.
I didn't know what I was goingto do.
I went to college becausethat's what you're supposed to
do, or at least we're supposedto do, and and.
But I didn't know what I wantedto be.
I didn't know what I wanted todo.
I didn't have any jobs in mindthat I thought that I would
(06:11):
enjoy.
And then I came across stunts.
I had a friend who was thecompany manager of the Batman
stunt show in New Jersey and heinvited me out to see the show
and I did.
And that was one of thosemoments.
It was just when the showstarted, the explosions happened
and motorcycles came jumpingout and I was completely
transfixed.
And that's when I was able togo backstage and talk to the
(06:34):
performers and ask them how doyou get this job?
And they said we need to knowhow to do fights, high falls and
motorcycles.
And then you come to theaudition.
You see what happens.
So I learned those things, wentto the audition and got the job
.
But that moment, when I waswatching that show, there was a
clarity there, there was apurpose, and then I did the show
because, again, I got ended upgetting that job.
(07:00):
I did the show the followingsummer and that's where, again,
it wasn't a moment.
But throughout that summer, atransition happened that took a
lot of weight off my shouldersbecause I'd finally recognized
what I wanted to do, where Iwanted to be, where I fit and
how I wanted to proceed in life,and that was really important
for me.
Another transition moment iswhen I decided to drop out of
college as a result of thatexact feeling that I just told
(07:21):
you.
Because that's what I did, Idropped out the first time
around.
I left with one semester to goto move to LA and be a stuntman,
and and then another moment was, I don't know, four or five
years later, I just recognizedthat I missed learning.
I missed, I missed that process, and so I went back to school
again, but never with theintention of working in the
(07:42):
field, it was just interestingmaterial the psychology, the
sports psychology, theorganizational psychology
through the PhD program.
All of that was just fun for me, and but then life does what it
does, and so I guess this isanother point about the pivotal
moment, the what that, thatrealization.
Sometimes that stuff justhappens to us and for me.
(08:04):
I got divorced.
My wife at the time didn't wantto be with me anymore and so I
left the army and I went back tostunts again.
That was a big moment in mylife and it changed a lot of
stuff and it reorganized mypriorities and how I approached
things.
But it wasn't by choice, that'sjust what happened.
(08:25):
So that was again another oneof those begin-again moments.
Yeah, to get into theperformance psychology, it's
been a journey becauseoriginally I did, I started out
as a stuntman and then I pursuedthe academic stuff through
psychology and then I started toput the psychology into
practice by doing the sportperformance psychology,
consulting with the US Army, andat that time I was still doing
(08:52):
stunts.
And I still am doing stunts,I'm still a stuntman.
But there was a cleardelineation between the two
worlds for me.
I didn't know sometimes when Iwoke up which hat I was going to
put on.
Am I a stuntman today or am I asport performance psychologist
today, or am I an author today?
I don't know.
There were a lot of differentcategories and it felt
disjointed a lot really.
(09:13):
But recently, over the pastyear, I've been able to figure
out how to bring all of thosethings together in a synergistic
way so that they're allcomponents of the work that I do
, which is helping peopleoperate better in high-stakes
performance situations.
And you did a great job in thebeginning of talking about the
illusion of pressure and some ofthe myths that people believe
(09:36):
about pressure, and we can getinto that and that'll be a lot
of fun.
But at the end of the day, with30 years in stunts and 10 years
working with the Army and justthe academic side of things as
well all those things were ableto come together in that high
stakes performance arena.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So that's how that's part of my journey and how I
landed in that space excuse me,what I really was really
enamored, actually, about yourstory and in preparing for
today's show is that you'velived your life and I what I
would say is a pretty highstress, high performance areas
being a stuntman.
And while it's really cool forus to sit in the movie theater
(10:14):
and watch some guy fall from 30feet in the air and jumping over
stuff and blowing up things, ifit's not done correctly, if the
plan isn't perfect, everythinggoes off right.
There's a life and deathsituation, and not all of us are
going to be in that, but wehave moments where it feels like
that similar to myself as well.
I went through a divorce when Iwas in my actually on my 30th
(10:36):
birthday, basically and that attime can feel like a life and
death situation, and so I knowyou've worked with people in all
different areas in that, and sowhen we have this, this
pressure and this stress on us,you utilize this Eastern
psychology and ideas to helpmanage that.
Let's talk a little bit abouthow you married these two
(10:57):
seemingly opposite ideas tosomething that we can be.
It can help us live much morefulfilling.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Yeah, let's start where you started.
Which was this the idea?
In terms of stunts?
Yeah, I've been in situationswhere if I did it wrong, then I
or somebody I was working withmay not go home at least in the
same condition that we showed upin.
Yeah, that is obvious.
That's a high stakes situation,and other people police
officers, military people,firefighters, construction
(11:26):
workers there are a lot ofpeople who find themselves in
similar situations and those arepretty easily identifiable as
high stakes moments just becauseof the gravity of the physical
safety involved.
But high stakes doesn't have tobe, like you pointed out, life
and death types of things.
It doesn't have to be aboutphysical risk.
(11:46):
It can be about emotional risk.
High stakes moment might behaving a challenging
conversation with a spouse or aloved one or a peer or friend.
Those are situations where theconsequences really matter, and
that's how I define high stakesperformance.
It's just any performance wherethe consequences are really
(12:08):
important to you, where theoutcome matters.
That's a high stakes moment,and in those moments is where
stress and pressure sometimeslive.
They don't have to, and I thinkin order for us to perform to
our potential, they shouldn't.
But at the end of the day, whenwe're talking about high stakes
moments, it really is trulyjust any situation.
(12:30):
We, not too long ago, just hadthe holidays happen and one of
those times for a lot of peopleis you have a lot of family over
and you have gatherings oryou're cooking meals for people
and I promise there are peoplelistening to this who recognize
oh yeah, that was reallystressful, that was.
I felt a lot of pressure to getall of that in the right place.
And stress and pressure, by theway, they're not the same thing
(12:52):
.
I'm using them interchangeably.
We can get into the definitionslater too, but my point is that
just regular life situationsthat involve no kind of physical
danger or risk are still highstakes.
Might be social risk.
It could be, if I don't getthis right, that I'm going to
lose a relationship withsomebody I care about.
So, yeah, I think it'simportant to understand high
stakes environments more broadlythan sometimes we do Now.
(13:14):
As far as the Eastern Western,bringing those components into
how we work with thosesituations, that's been an
interesting journey too.
It really came through some ofmy own work when I was going
through a rough time in my lifeof just doing a lot of reading
in a lot of places.
So I read research and journalsand things like that from
Western psychology and theoriesand things in that genre.
(13:37):
But I was also reading morephilosophy and I was reading
Western philosophy.
But I was also reading someEastern philosophy and Eastern
religion as well as Westernreligion.
I was reading the Bible and theKoran.
I didn't really get into butthe Torah, the first parts of
the Bible, the Old Testament,christians call it those are
(13:58):
interesting.
But on the Eastern side, theTao Te Ching, the Bhagavad Gita
these are also interestingdocuments, the Hindu Upanishads.
And what struck me as I wasreading from all of these
different sources and all thesedifferent places from writing
that's happened over millennia,literally thousands of years,
was the similarity, so muchsimilarity in terms of how
(14:21):
people are looking at things.
And, by the way, when we getinto pressure, I say that
there's no such thing as apressure situation, and the
reason for that is becausesituations themselves don't
cause anything, they just are.
And that's one of thoseconcepts that transcends Eastern
(14:42):
and Western ideologies and themillennia, because, from
cognitive psychology standpoint,when we're in situations, we
can perceive them in any numberof ways.
We can think about them howeverwe want to and if we perceive
the situation in one way, we'regoing to experience certain
emotions.
If we perceive it in adifferent way, we're going to
(15:04):
experience certain emotions.
If we perceive it in adifferent way, we're going to
experience different emotions.
So it's not the situationthat's driving our feelings and
our actions, it's how we'reinterpreting that situation.
And that's now.
That's cognitive theory now.
But Shakespeare said the samething 500, 600 years ago in
Hamlet.
He said nothing is good or bad,but thinking makes it.
(15:25):
So there's no good or bad otherthan just how we think about it
.
That's what makes it.
And Epictetus said the samething 2000 years ago it's not
events that disturb us, it's howwe think about those events.
So the concepts that I'mbringing out are absolutely not
new, but they transcend time andthey continually show up in
(15:45):
these different pieces ofliterature.
And to me that's wisdom.
When you're reading the samething from 2000 years ago that
you're reading today, and it waswritten in India and it was
written in I don't know NewJersey, you got to pay attention
to that.
That's some wisdom.
So that's how those seeminglydifferent areas have coalesced
and come together for me toreally drive my thinking about
(16:09):
and the types of interventionsthat I provide in the work that
I do.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
And I can see the clarity that brings as well.
When we recognize and I thinkthat's part of the challenge.
I was focused on men's workhere and I think about the men
that I, that I work with, howfor lack of a better term how,
at a surface level, we are, wejust didn't, we feel that we're.
Everything outside of us iswhat is what affects us, and
(16:34):
when we recognize that that'snot really the case and it's our
mindset and how we framed itand the stories that we've
wrapped ourselves around canreally create that environment.
And so you're absolutely right,and I think that's where you
talked a little bit about andthe stories that we've wrapped
ourselves around can reallycreate that environment.
And so you're absolutely right,and I think that's where you
talked a little bit about.
Well, there's really twodifferent and I would agree with
you.
There's two different aspectsto pressure versus stress, and
so let's unpack that a littlebit as well, because I think,
(16:57):
for many of us, we believe thatwhen we are faced with these
obstacles, that we need to be inthese high pressure moments in
order for us to be successful,and I don't think that's really
the case.
It may be on occasion, but it'snot necessarily the case.
So let's unpack how the yourdefinitions on those two.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah, so pressure and stress are different in this
way.
Pressure exists in the future.
It's the result of focusing onconsequences, things that may or
may not happen as a result ofsuccess or failure, and that
part's important.
People don't really think aboutthat as much as I think they
ought to.
We can experience pressure whenwe are focused on good
(17:39):
consequences, meaning if I nailthis presentation in front of
all these people, my career ison the fast track, I'm going to
take off, my ticket's punched,I'm good.
There is a tremendous amount ofpressure that we can feel if
that's where our focus is.
If I screw this presentation upin front of these people, I'm
going to get fired, I'm notgoing to get any work, I'm not
(18:00):
going to be able to pay my bills, and that also creates pressure
.
But pressure stems fromattention placed on potential
consequences, and we can getinto that more in a little bit,
a little bit later too, becauseI think that's valuable.
But stress is about thesituation itself and
specifically how we areinterpreting and perceiving that
(18:21):
situation.
So the model of stress that, Ithink, makes a lot of sense.
It comes from two theorists,lazarus and Folkman.
It's called the transactionalmodel of stress, but what
essentially it says is that whensituations happen, there's a
primary appraisal and asecondary appraisal.
The primary appraisal is thissituation a threat to me or not?
If I believe it's a threat,then I move on to the secondary
(18:46):
appraisal, which is do I believethat I have the necessary
resources to deal with thisthreat?
So stress goes away.
If in the primary appraisal wesay no, this isn't a threat at
all, no problem, there is nostress.
There is no stress.
But if we say yes, this is athreat, then do I have the
(19:09):
resources?
Starts getting asked.
And if we answer the questionno, you know what?
I don't think I have theresources necessary to deal with
this.
Now we start to experiencestress.
If we answer the questiondifferently yes, I do believe
that I have the resources todeal with the situation Then
stress for sure lowers, if notgoes away.
For example, I've done probablya dozen over the course of my
(19:31):
stunt career car hits, gettinghit by a car.
Stunt people aren't verycreative naming things.
It's just stair falls you falldown the stairs.
Car hits you get hit by cars.
High falls you fall from high.
It's very straightforward.
But in this particular caseI've been hit by a car a lot of
times and each time that I'vebeen standing in front of the
car as it's driving at me, I'mperceiving that situation as a
(19:58):
threat because it is Somethingbad might happen to me in this
situation.
I can't say it's not a threat,it is.
But then I moved to thesecondary appraisal and I asked
okay, do I have the resourcesnecessary to handle this threat
effectively?
And the answer's been yes everytime.
When the answer's no, it's timeto step out of the way of the
car and do something different.
So it's not about avoidingnecessarily situations that we
(20:20):
perceive as threats.
Those can be great momentsbecause they can make us feel
alive, they can move us forward,propel us in the direction we
want to go.
It really will come down to ifwe do perceive it as a threat,
those resources, and byresources physical resources,
mental resources, emotionalresources, social resources,
spiritual resources, financialresources.
(20:41):
There are a lot of differentresources, but that's where
stress is.
So stress is about thesituation, our perception of the
situation as a threat or not,and our belief about whether or
not we have the resources todeal with that situation
effectively, whereas pressurehas nothing to do with the
situation.
It's about the imaginedconsequences associated with
(21:03):
success or failure in thosemoments.
So that's the differencebetween the two.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
That makes complete sense to me as well, because
when we think about pressure, itis about a potential outcome,
and so that's what we're gettingconcerned about, and so that
makes complete sense to me, andso would you say that in your
work, then that's one of thecommon mental mistakes that
people are making when they'rein a high performance
(21:28):
environment, regardless of whatit is that they're
misinterpreting the situation,or is there other things going
on?
Speaker 3 (21:35):
If we're talking about pressure, what happens is
people will sometimes believethat focusing on the
consequences here's the path.
Okay, so we focus on theconsequences.
They're really important, theymatter, they're high stakes.
The stakes are high, theconsequences matter, and this is
something that I will sometimeschallenge people with, because
sometimes we can make mountainsout of molehills.
(21:55):
But at the same time, I don'tchallenge it that much, because
if somebody believes something'simportant, then it probably is,
and in some situations it'sinarguably important.
The consequences matter.
So let's just assume that theconsequences really truly do
matter.
The person's perception of theconsequences and their
importance are accurate In thatsituation.
(22:17):
If my attention is on thoseconsequences, then I will start
to experience pressure.
Now, this is the part wherepeople will start to believe
that, okay, yeah, as I start tofeel that pressure that gives me
that energy to get myself going.
And the answer to that is yes.
So what people do is they saypressure helps me perform better
(22:39):
, but they're missing the why.
And the why is when weexperience pressure, the
sympathetic nervous systemactivates, and the why is when
we experience pressure, thesympathetic nervous system
activates, and so our heart rateincreases, our breathing
increases, muscle tensionincreases All those things that
our body does to prepare us foraction happen, and there is
that's called arousal.
(22:59):
So our arousal level is ourlevel of pumped-up-edness, and
there's a certain level ofarousal, a level of
pumped-up-edness for any givenperformance that allows us to
perform to our potential.
And so what pressure can do iselevate arousal to a place that
allows people to perform totheir potential, and it's that.
(23:22):
And so then they do well, andafterward they think back oh
yeah, there was a lot ofpressure there and I did.
It must've been the pressurethat caused me to do well, but
it didn't.
What happened was the pressurefacilitated the arousal level,
and the arousal level allowedyou to be at your best.
So the question is is pressurehelpful?
(23:45):
It can be from an arousalstandpoint.
But here's the problem withpressure.
If we're experiencing pressure,by definition our attention is
on the future.
It's on the outcomes, theconsequences, meaning that our
attention is not in the presentmoment on those task-relevant
(24:05):
things that need to happen inorder for us to achieve the
outcome that we want.
So our attention is misplaced.
We are going to do our bestwhen our attention is focused in
the moment on those things thatwe can control, that drive
success, that create conditionsfor success to occur.
They don't guarantee success,but there are things we can do
(24:30):
right now, in this moment, thatset conditions for the outcomes
that we want and our attentionon the future, those potential
outcomes.
That is not helpful.
Now caveat where it can behelpful and this is another miss
.
It's just a confusion aboutwhat pressure is.
Some people will conflatepressure with motivation.
So can consequences motivate us?
(24:56):
For sure the answer to thequestion why that's a big.
Simon Sinek has a big.
This is his whole thing.
You know the why, find your why?
Yeah, if you're going into asituation ask yourself the
question, why do I care, whydoes this matter to me?
And the answer to that may bethose consequences, and that's
okay because those can bemotivators, like just
understanding why it is I'mdoing something, but that drive
(25:19):
forward the importance, thevalue of the consequences.
100% can boost motivation ifwe're thinking about them, but
not in the moment.
We have to let that go.
So pressures around feelinglike those consequences, when
our attention is on them, are soweighty that it makes us hard
(25:42):
to perform.
So, ahead of time, what we needto do is boost motivation.
If you want to think aboutconsequences, to do that, no
problem.
Understanding your why isimportant, but when we're
performing, or when we're evenpreparing to perform, focusing
on those things that will allowus to be at our best the
breathing, our muscle, physical,what's going on physically in
(26:02):
our bodies, do we have the rightarousal level?
Do we have our bodies prepared?
Did we sleep well?
Did we eat the way that weneeded to?
Mentally, where's our mind?
Where's our focus?
Where's our attention?
Are we paying attention tothings that we can control, that
we can leverage in thosesituations?
Emotionally, where are we?
Socially, where are we?
Are we talking to people?
(26:23):
No-transcript.
(26:57):
The pressure as a result, thenervous system goes up.
As a result, arousal levelsstart to elevate and maybe it
puts them where they need to be.
The problem is sometimes thatpressure puts our arousal levels
way above where they need to beand people don't have the
strategies to come back fromthat.
And the other thing torecognize is just the pressure.
Yes, it does elevate arousallevels.
Can that be helpful?
(27:17):
Sure, but there are a lot ofother ways to elevate arousal
levels that still allow us tokeep our attention and focus
where it needs to be Not on theimagined outcomes, not on the
possible, maybe consequences,but on the real, tangible,
no-kidding things in thispresent moment that we can do.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
That makes complete sense to me and I think when we
come back to, when we can payattention to what's happening
right now and in the moment andI loved how you started to ask
those questions about everydifferent aspect in my life and
so when I'm asking myself thatit gives me a barometer now and
then I can make a better plan tomove forward, and it sounds
(27:58):
like we're probably diving in alittle bit into your now.
I call it phase X.
I don't know if it's phase X orphase 10, but you have this
program and I'd like to talk alittle bit about how you're
using this to help everybody getto work in their everyday life
and how men can look at thisstuff, at this work that you're
doing.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Yeah yeah.
There are four programs that Ihave.
Phase X is one of them.
The pressure X or flow underfire it's sometimes in some of
the keynotes and stuff that Igive is that really
differentiates stress, and thenstarts talking about pressure
from that standpoint ofconsequences and then brings in
the facts, which are focus,arousal, confidence and tenacity
.
That's how we deal withpressure.
(28:36):
Same thing with stressdifferentiates.
It talks about the stress modelwhich I've already discussed,
and then we get into, okay, thefacts.
How do we use these toeliminate stress and get
ourselves into a place where wecan perform well?
Phase X is a four-phasedapproach to performance and it's
one that came out of work thatI was doing with the military.
(28:57):
There were a couple of us thatwere just sitting around one day
and we were thinking about howto integrate mental skills
training into the Army.
It had never been done, theprogram was brand new, the Army
had just purchased it.
I was on the cutting edge ofthat one at the very first and,
for better and worse, we got toinvent that program.
But that was the conversation.
How do we do this, how do weput this stuff in?
(29:18):
And the conversation was for alittle bit about what are the
skills, what are the mentalskills that soldiers might
benefit from?
So, for example, mental imageryor cue words or performance
routines, things like that.
But then the question shiftedto okay, but when should they
use those skills?
And nobody had ever writtenabout that, like connection of
(29:42):
maybe before you perform, theseparticular skills might be
helpful when used in thisparticular way.
Right before the performance,maybe some different skills are
used during, you've got anotherset of skills that might be
helpful.
And then, even after, there canbe skills that we can use to
recover and to learn from whatit is that we've done.
(30:03):
So that conversation around notjust what skills, but when do
we use them, yielded thisfour-phased approach, and the
before, during, after approachis not new at all, but what we
did use is a fourth phase, theright before.
So phase two is right before,and this came out of my work
with stunts, because I startedto think about okay, so when I
(30:25):
show up on set, so how do?
When I show up on set, what doI do?
I show up at work, I eatbreakfast, I go to my trailer, I
put on the wardrobe, I go tohair and makeup.
I get all that.
We go to the rehearsal, welearn what it is we're going to
do, and then we sit around for alittle bit, however long, until
they get around to shooting it,and then we go on set and they
shoot it and then we're done.
And that's the basic process Inthe before part, which is I
(30:49):
arrive and I'm eating breakfastand I'm getting hair and makeup
wardrobe.
Even the rehearsal part, I can'tbe in the same performance
state that I'm in when Iactually need to do the stunt
while shooting.
I can't, I'll run out of energy.
Energy is finite.
We don't have it.
You have to have it.
You have to manage it.
So for truly hours before Ihave to do something different
(31:13):
with myself, I have to regulatemy energy levels differently,
but I still have to keep my mindon the task.
But I can't keep it therecompletely because again I'll
wear myself out mentally, notjust physically.
So it's that balance.
So before there's what it is,but then there's right before,
then there's okay, brian, we'reready for you on set.
That's my cue.
Now we're transitioning frombefore, which is just
(31:34):
maintenance, and just amaintenance of preparation
keeping my body warm but not toowarm, keeping my mind on the
gag when rehearsing it in mymind so that I haven't forgotten
what it is that we did, etc.
We transition from that intookay, now it's time, now it's no
kidding ready to go.
So I have to shift myselfphysically, mentally,
emotionally and even socially.
(31:54):
Sometimes Maybe I was talkingto people about I don't know my
day yesterday.
It's time to stop doing that.
It's time to start getting intothe task relevant only things,
and that's part of phase two.
So we shift our physical stateto the one where we need to be
in order to perform well.
That's the arousal levels I wastalking about.
We shift our mental state,including our focus to task
(32:15):
relevant things, where ourattention is focused on what we
absolutely have to do in thismoment to perform well, our
emotional state.
We clue into that and make thatwhere it needs to be.
So that's the right before it'sgetting ourselves, it's
shifting from that before justwalking around level to
performance level and thenaction.
Now we're in it, now we'redoing it.
(32:37):
So what are the skills that Ican use during the stunt itself
and then cut?
Now it's after.
What do I do?
How can I recover?
I've just expended a lot ofenergy.
How do I recover that energyeffectively and how do I learn
from that experience?
What are some tools that I canuse in order to ensure that the
(32:57):
next time I do this and that'sthe thing about performance too
is there usually is a next time.
It may not be a take two, thathappens immediately, but, for
example, a lot of people they'lllead meetings at work or
they'll give presentations everynow and then.
Those don't happen all the timefor most people, but they'll
happen and they'll happen again.
It may be once a year, might beevery once, every three years,
(33:18):
but whatever we're doing,typically we will do it again.
So how can I learn from it andapply what I've learned the next
time around?
That's phase four.
So phase X is really abouthelping people in their own
performance arenas, whateverthose might be, identify for
themselves what someperformances are that matter to
them and helping them breakthose performances down into
(33:40):
those four phases.
Defining what those four phasesare for them Right defining
what those four phases are forthem and then teaching some of
the skills and then applyingthose skills within those phases
so that people have a framework.
That's the thing about big,important, especially high
stakes performances.
We can get very overwhelmedwith the whole situation.
(34:01):
There's so much, it matters somuch and there are so many
things, and what do I do beforeand what happens if I screw it?
Like there's just so much, itmatters so much and there are so
many things, and what do I dobefore and what happens if I
screwed?
Like there's just so much andit's very hard for us to latch
on to and really hang on to thepresent moment and the things we
need to be doing right now tohelp us out.
That's what this Phase Xprogram is designed to do At any
(34:21):
given moment, whether you're inthe before, the right before,
the during or the after.
And since you know that, youalso know what physical, mental,
emotional, social things youneed to be doing in order to
prepare you for success.
And that's that program.
What?
Speaker 1 (34:38):
I really like about this program and the way you've
broke it down, is that this canbe applied.
As I was saying in the intro,it doesn't matter we may not be
in life-death situations, butwhen we have to have that
crucial conversation with aspouse, a child, an employee
maybe it's a peer, any type ofsituation if we have a framework
to help us prepare to get intothat, so that we can have the
(35:03):
most success in that outcome aspossible with the, I would
suggest, probably with the leastamount of stress not saying
you're ever eliminated, but youcan go in with more confidence
then that's really beneficial.
And what I really appreciate isthat you added that after part,
because a lot of times I talkto folks on the podcast and they
have a tool and they have astrategy, but it doesn't really
(35:24):
finish the COSA loop, becauseafter you've expended all this
energy you're, if you don't havea way to decompress and to
re-regulate yourself, you'reprobably not doing yourself any
good, and so I really like thatyou've incorporated and
considered that aspect of it.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Yeah, that's a big part, In fact, even with some of
the.
I'll take swimmers, for example.
When I've worked with swimmers,they'll finish a race and then
after the race they talk totheir coach about whatever
happened, and after the racethey're either happy or they're
not.
There's some sort of emotionalreaction to what happened.
So what I coach them to do isdo your race, finish the race.
(36:00):
You've got the results.
Experience the results for alittle bit.
If you're happy about them, behappy.
If you're disappointed, bedisappointed.
Just experience those momentsfor a little bit before you try
to analyze what's going on.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Right.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Because the analysis will not be as effective if it's
colored by, and really drivenby, the emotional state that
we're in.
So just take a little bit tomanage the emotions, accept what
is in that particular situation, whether you're happy about the
performance or not and then,after a little bit, after you've
taken that time to bring yourphysiology back down to baseline
again and you've experiencedthe emotions, you've taken time
(36:37):
to accept what is.
Now you can go have theconversation with the coach, or
get into, if there's not a coach, or just get into your own mind
and really break down whathappened throughout the
performance, because it's animportant thing to do.
But again, it's not about thewhat, it's about the when.
So should we break downperformance?
(36:58):
For sure we should.
Should we do it immediatelyafter getting out of the pool or
whatever?
The equivalent is Probably not.
It's not going to be aseffective.
So the when is really important.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
I like and I like that.
And so, guys, I hope you're,when you're listening to this,
you're paying attention to it,because we tend to gloss over.
This part is that we don't liketo experience, especially if
it's a, I'll say, a negativeemotion, whether it's anger or
fear, or sadness.
And when we have theopportunity to really experience
that not sit in it for a longtime, but to experience it then
(37:31):
we get an opportunity that wecan come at it with a more
conscious mindset.
And so I really appreciate thatyou explained that to us,
because I think it's reallyimportant for us.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
first, Go ahead, brian.
Yeah, I appreciate you bringingthat up too, because the way I
think about it is in three partsreally is one is self-awareness
, so being aware of what we'redoing, how we're feeling, how
we're thinking, how we're seeingsituations, et cetera.
Then, once we're aware of thosethings, then we have to accept
(38:03):
them.
And when I say accept them,again some people get confused
Sometimes.
I don't mean acquiesce, I don'tmean give up, I don't mean just
throw in the towel when I sayaccept things as they are, just
accept them as they are, asopposed to trying to gloss them
over or trying to rationalizethings or even just ignoring
them altogether.
It's just accept what is.
(38:24):
You can like it, you can notlike it, it can be pleasant or
unpleasant, but it is, and let'sjust acknowledge the truth of
that.
The situation is how it isBecause as soon as we do that
now, we can move forward withself-regulation, with changes,
with actions that are productive.
Because here's the thing wedon't accept what is and we just
we become aware of some stuffand then all of a sudden we
(38:47):
start making changes, but wehaven't really taken the time to
thoroughly sit in and I don'tknow, think through what it is
that's happening as the realitythat we're experiencing.
We can tend to just waste awhole bunch of time on actions
and different self-regulationthings that aren't helpful
(39:09):
Because they're not really beingapplied to the actual issue.
So first step is awareness.
Second step is acceptance Justreally being sure about where I
am, what I'm feeling, what I'mdoing, how things are.
Because then, once I am surenow, it's probably more likely
that the effort and energy thatI expend to do something about
it will be targeting the rightthing and I'll see results.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Completely agree with that.
Love the way you reframe that.
I'm sure in your journey, brian, there must have been one or
two people maybe it was evenbooks or something you've read
but a mentor, something that hasreally stuck with you.
So my question for you iswhat's been a piece of advice
that you've been given that isstill serving you today?
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Yeah, I've had.
It's funny when you say that,and I've done this same thing in
a few classes.
I've asked what leader reallyinspired you or really made a
difference in your life, andinevitably somebody pops into
people's heads and I've had afew of them just pop into mine
right there while you weretalking.
I don't know the specific pieceof advice that I got from them,
but I can tell you that mydrama teacher in high school is
(40:15):
the, the, the password questionsthat make you reminded like
who's your favorite teacher inhigh school?
That's him I've got.
He's my password remindersometimes.
And and I just.
The reason for that is becausehe was in a school.
It was a public high school andhe just did things his own way.
There was a curriculum I'm surethere was expectations through
the school or whatever, but heran his class in a way that was
(40:38):
student-centered.
There was no cookie cutterapproach.
It didn't.
Grades were just a byproduct.
He didn't even care.
What he wanted to do is exposekids to something new.
He wanted to foster curiosityand exploration.
And having kids this is a dramaclass too, and this is high
school kids.
So having kids feel some ofthat anxiety and fear sometimes
(41:04):
that come along with puttingyourself in front of somebody
where you can be judged, thosehigh stakes performance moments.
He wanted to create a climatefor people that allowed them to
be in those high stakes momentsand be in what Vygotsky called
the zone of proximal development.
So it wasn't too hard but itwasn't too easy.
(41:25):
There was challenge, but it wasright in the right spot and
that was his focus.
He didn't care at all what therules of the school were or what
the program.
He just wanted the kids to walkout of that class better than
they walked in, and for methat's been so.
Again, it's not advice, it'sjust more emulation.
That's what I try to do.
I try to do that with thepeople I'm working with.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
I try to do it with myself, I try to do it with my
kids.
I just want to see the bigpicture, the intent, the focus.
How can we be in these momentsand walk out better than we
showed up?
Hey, regardless of whetheradvice or not, it was something
that you picked up and you'restill using it today, and that
was the key for that question.
So thank you so much forsharing that Of everything that
we spoke about today, brian, andmaybe there was something we
didn't get a chance to touch on.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
What would be a takeaway you'd want our
listeners to have.
One is just opportunity,because when we start talking
about high stakes situations,there's a lot of opportunity in
those moments.
But I think that in order foropportunity to be realized,
three things have to happen.
Number one is we have torecognize that the opportunity
is there at all.
So we have to open ourawareness up to things that
(42:37):
maybe we're not paying attentionto.
We have to stop being narrow inour focus and attention and
really broaden out to otherpossibilities, just see that
they exist, and then, once we'vedone that, then you know maybe
the opportunity comes up.
We see that Then what'srequired is then, once we've
done that, then you know maybethe opportunity comes up.
We see that Then what'srequired is flexibility, because
(42:57):
we've got our attention andfocus and energies going in one
direction, but the potentialopportunity might require us and
probably will to shift thatdirection.
So we have to be comfortablewith yeah, I was going, but I
see this and now I'm going to goleft because that's a better
way to go, and this gets into,especially in the Western
cultures, I don't knowpreoccupation with grit and
(43:20):
perseverance and tenacity.
It's just we have to stick withit.
You can't quit.
I'm saying no quit If theopportunity, if you're going
right and an opportunity tobetter yourself.
If it happens, if you go to theleft, well, quit going to the
right and go to the left.
But then once we recognize thatand we say okay, yeah, that's
the right way to go, that is theright path, then the next step
(43:41):
I think is the hardest, and thisis where most people get hung
up it's having the courage totake that first step, because
it's into the unknown.
There's uncertainty there andhuman beings we don't like
uncertainty, we don't operatewell in that, but that's what's
out there.
We don't know what this newdirection is going to bring.
(44:03):
We're going to leave the known,because we've been pursuing it
for however long we have, andwe're going to enter the unknown
.
That's a scary thing to do andit requires courage, but if
we're going to take advantage ofopportunity always exists in
that unknown, unexplored space.
So, number one, we have to openour awareness so that
opportunities are evenrecognized at all.
(44:24):
Number two, we have to have theflexibility to shift from what
we think we want right now, whatthe goals are that we have in
this moment, to these othergoals.
And then number three just, wehave to develop that courage to
try to take that leap, to takethat.
It's one of the things that, inthe performance moments, I've
never had an easy way todescribe it, but it's been so
(44:45):
powerful.
For me it's this moment of thepoint of no return.
For example, if I'm going to doa high fall, I'm standing on
top of the ledge of the buildingor whatever it is and I'm
looking down at the mat.
I'm just standing there.
I can stand there for timeeternal and I can lean forward a
little bit too and still beable to stand there.
But at some point there's apoint of no return and I'm going
(45:06):
to fall.
When I reach that point of noreturn, there is no going back.
I can't step back, I can't undowhat is.
I have to go forward, and thatmoment is a very freeing moment
For me.
It's been a moment where if Iwas experiencing nervousness at
all in the moment, itimmediately disappeared as soon
(45:27):
as that point of no returnhappened.
This has happened with comedytoo.
I did stand up comedy for alittle bit, and so I was
standing off to the side of thestage, petrified, more scared
than I'd ever been to be hit byany car, and and and then the
guy called my name and I startedup the stairs and the light hit
me.
And as soon as that light hitme I knew that was it, that's
(45:47):
the point of no return.
I can't go back, I can't justwalk down the stairs Now, before
that I could have run, I couldhave headed out the door, but
when the light hit me, that wasit, point of no return, and the
nervousness disappeared.
So it's a really cool momentthat I've experienced a lot and
(46:10):
just I put that out there topeople to just say, look, the
nervousness, the anxiety, thefear, all of those things are
there.
But, man, with that first step,that movement from safety into
the unknown, into that nextphase, is a cool moment if you
allow yourself to experience itas that.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Absolutely, absolutely.
What a great way to wrap up ourconversation today.
I would say thank you so much,brian, for spending time with us
today, and I know yourexpertise on sports psychology,
resilience and really how we cannow learn to master our
high-stakes moments in life, andI want to say thank you so much
for sharing those insights andthe framework for us.
And so if men are interestedand wanting to get a hold of you
(46:49):
participating in your work,what's the best way for them to
do that?
Speaker 3 (46:53):
Yeah, please visit the website.
You can see the program's there.
It's going through some updatesnow.
It doesn't quite reflectexactly what it is that I'm
doing exactly the way it needsto.
But if you've got questions,please email me.
Brian at brianheightglobalcom,b-r-i-a-n-h-i-t-e Global,
g-l-o-b-a-lcom.
You can email me at BrianHeightor Brian at
(47:14):
BrianHeightGlobalcom, or you canjust schedule a discovery call
right from the website.
There's an easy way to do that.
Please do, because, seriously,just the way that you led off at
this podcast if you areexperiencing challenges with
stress and pressure oroverwhelmed in any type of
situation that matters to you,if that's something you struggle
with and you don't havesomebody to hold your hand
(47:35):
through it, please reach out tome.
I've been there.
I've been in those situationsin my personal life.
I've been there in myprofessional lives and it's a
really it's a hard place to be.
So please reach out.
I'd love to talk to you and seeif there's something I can do.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Absolutely.
I'm want to challenge you withone thought If you are reacting
to pressure, or are you reallymastering it?
And so there's going to be adifference between those who
thrive and those who struggle.
(48:08):
And this isn't about talents,it's about how they handle the
moments, and the moments matterthe most, and so I want to
introduce you to a program thatwe're running.
It's called Living WithIntegrity.
It's designed to help men breakfree from stress, take control
of their mindset and step fullyinto their leadership potential.
If you're ready to perform atyour peak and without the weight
of unnecessary pressure, takethe first step today.
(48:30):
Visit us atmembersthewakeandmannet.
Take our free integritychallenge opportunity for you to
live with clarity, lead withconfidence.
Get your start right now.
Thank you very much, everyone,for enjoying this episode.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Thank you for listening to the Revolutionary
man podcast.
Are you ready to own yourdestiny, to become more the man
you are destined to be?
Join the brotherhood that isthe Awakened man at
theawakendmannet and startforging a new destiny today.
I'd just like you to imagine standing at the edge of
a high-stakes moment in yourlife your body's tenses, your
mind's racing, and the weight ofexpectation is pressing down on
you.
Now, whether that's in yourcareer, relationship or personal
growth, we're all going toexperience moments where the
pressure feels overwhelming.
But what if the stress and thepressure weren't necessary for
(00:25):
success?
What if the key to peakperformance wasn't about pushing
hard, but learning how tochannel energy, focus and
resilience in a way thatactually enhances our abilities?
Today, we're going to uncoverhow mastering performance
psychology, reframing pressureand adapting to a structured
approach to high-stakessituations can truly unlock our
(00:46):
true potential.
So no matter what arena thatwe're playing in, so if you've
struggled with stress andpressure or feeling stuck under
the weight of expectations, Ithink this episode is going to
be for you.
So take a moment to hit like,subscribe and share this episode
with someone who needs to hearit.
It's your support thatcontinues to bring powerful
conversations that we're havingthat equip men with the tools to
(01:06):
lead with clarity, confidenceand peak performance, and with
that, get on with today'sepisode.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
The average man today is sleepwalking through life,
many never reaching their truepotential, let alone ever
crossing the finish line toliving a purposeful life.
Yet the hunger still exists,albeit buried amidst his
cluttered mind, misguidedbeliefs and values that no
longer serve him.
It's time to align yourself forgreatness.
(01:36):
It's time to become arevolutionary man.
Stay strong, my brother.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Welcome everyone to the Revolutionary man podcast.
I'm the founder of the Awakenedman Movement and your host,
Alan DeMonso.
What if the stress and pressureyou've conditioned yourself to
believe are necessary forsuccess are actually holding you
back from reaching your fullpotential?
And how would your life changeif you could master the ability
(02:05):
to stay calm, focused and incontrol in every high-stakes
situation?
Pressure isn't something thatwe have to suffer through.
It's something we can learn tonavigate and maybe even
eliminate.
And today we're going to explorethe science of high-performance
psychology and how we can breakfree from stress and
uncertainty to operate at ourpeak.
To do that, allow me tointroduce my guest today, Brian
(02:28):
Heitz, a PhD, and he's a highperformance psychologist,
professional stuntman and expertin mastering high stakes
situations, and he's got over 30years of experience in
Hollywood, elite militarytraining and organizational
psychology.
He, Brian, helps leaders,athletes and professionals
reframe stress and pressure tounlock their peak performance,
and through his groundbreakingprograms like Phase X and his
(02:52):
podcast Flow Under Fire, Brian'sbeen empowering individuals to
navigate challenges with clarity, confidence and resilience.
Brian, welcome to the show,brother.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
How are things, my friend?
That's great.
Thank you very much for havingme.
Yeah, I'm really lookingforward to this conversation.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
It's been a while since we've had someone talk
about this specific topic, andso, as you know, here at the
Revolutionary man Podcast, wealways talk about everyone being
on their hero's quest, and myquestion for you is to tell us
about that time, that moment inyour life when you knew things
had to change, that death andrebirth moment, how that
experience shaped you into theman you are today and the work
(03:28):
you're doing.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Yeah, there isn't one .
That moment comes every singleday.
It comes sometimes multipletimes a day.
There's a reason why the veryfirst business that I started
when I left the sportperformance psychology with the
army was called begin again, andthere's a reason why my book is
called begin again as well.
Begin again.
(03:49):
Utilize the wisdom of Easternand Western ideologies to
achieve your full potential.
I believe very strongly that weconstantly, always, begin again
, because the only thing we haveis this present moment.
So what has passed is done.
We're consistently reinventingourselves and the moment and
just starting over.
So I can't say that there's adefinitive life-changing moment.
(04:13):
There have just been so many ofthem.
So many times when I've, forwhatever reason, wherever it
came from, an epiphany struck,some sort of insight happened
that pushed me in a differentdirection.
Sometimes it's small, likeduring the pandemic picking up
playing cards again and startingto do sleight of hand with
magic.
That's been.
(04:34):
It's been so much fun and it'sbeen.
It's introduced me to a lot ofpeople.
It's changed a lot of thingsabout my life.
It wasn't a big, huge, dramaticinsight that I had Some
lightning bolt moment, it wasjust I haven't done magic in a
while.
Why don't we start that again.
But it's completely changedeverything.
I've met so many cool peopleand gotten to do so many fun
things, so I don't have that onedramatic.
(04:57):
Let me tell you about this lifealtering moment in my life.
I just they happen all the time.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
You know, what I like about that is that that's true.
We don't necessarily have tohave these epiphany moments.
If we're staying in the present, as you're talking about and I
think that's part of ourchallenge too is we feel maybe
we feel that our lives aren't asart is impactful because we
haven't had that great ahamoment.
But if we're willing to payattention, like you're talking
about picking up cards again anddoing some magic during the
(05:28):
pandemic, it shows that we'represent and we're able to really
take in and appreciate what wehave in front of us.
You have a really incrediblecareer.
I talked a little bit about itin the intro.
It's from Hollywood to stuntwork and coaching in the elite
military personnel.
But what led you to specializefor a while anyways with high
performance psychology?
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Yeah, you talk about those moments again.
There are a lot, and one ofthem was when I was in college
and I was 20 years old and I waslost.
I didn't know what I was goingto do.
I went to college becausethat's what you're supposed to
do, or at least we're supposedto do, and and.
But I didn't know what I wantedto be.
I didn't know what I wanted todo.
I didn't have any jobs in mindthat I thought that I would
(06:11):
enjoy.
And then I came across stunts.
I had a friend who was thecompany manager of the Batman
stunt show in New Jersey and heinvited me out to see the show
and I did.
And that was one of thosemoments.
It was just when the showstarted, the explosions happened
and motorcycles came jumpingout and I was completely
transfixed.
And that's when I was able togo backstage and talk to the
(06:34):
performers and ask them how doyou get this job?
And they said we need to knowhow to do fights, high falls and
motorcycles.
And then you come to theaudition.
You see what happens.
So I learned those things, wentto the audition and got the job
.
But that moment, when I waswatching that show, there was a
clarity there, there was apurpose, and then I did the show
because, again, I got ended upgetting that job.
(07:00):
I did the show the followingsummer and that's where, again,
it wasn't a moment.
But throughout that summer, atransition happened that took a
lot of weight off my shouldersbecause I'd finally recognized
what I wanted to do, where Iwanted to be, where I fit and
how I wanted to proceed in life,and that was really important
for me.
Another transition moment iswhen I decided to drop out of
college as a result of thatexact feeling that I just told
(07:21):
you.
Because that's what I did, Idropped out the first time
around.
I left with one semester to goto move to LA and be a stuntman,
and and then another moment was, I don't know, four or five
years later, I just recognizedthat I missed learning.
I missed, I missed that process, and so I went back to school
again, but never with theintention of working in the
(07:42):
field, it was just interestingmaterial the psychology, the
sports psychology, theorganizational psychology
through the PhD program.
All of that was just fun for me, and but then life does what it
does, and so I guess this isanother point about the pivotal
moment, the what that, thatrealization.
Sometimes that stuff justhappens to us and for me.
(08:04):
I got divorced.
My wife at the time didn't wantto be with me anymore and so I
left the army and I went back tostunts again.
That was a big moment in mylife and it changed a lot of
stuff and it reorganized mypriorities and how I approached
things.
But it wasn't by choice, that'sjust what happened.
(08:25):
So that was again another oneof those begin-again moments.
Yeah, to get into theperformance psychology, it's
been a journey becauseoriginally I did, I started out
as a stuntman and then I pursuedthe academic stuff through
psychology and then I started toput the psychology into
practice by doing the sportperformance psychology,
consulting with the US Army, andat that time I was still doing
(08:52):
stunts.
And I still am doing stunts,I'm still a stuntman.
But there was a cleardelineation between the two
worlds for me.
I didn't know sometimes when Iwoke up which hat I was going to
put on.
Am I a stuntman today or am I asport performance psychologist
today, or am I an author today?
I don't know.
There were a lot of differentcategories and it felt
disjointed a lot really.
(09:13):
But recently, over the pastyear, I've been able to figure
out how to bring all of thosethings together in a synergistic
way so that they're allcomponents of the work that I do
, which is helping peopleoperate better in high-stakes
performance situations.
And you did a great job in thebeginning of talking about the
illusion of pressure and some ofthe myths that people believe
(09:36):
about pressure, and we can getinto that and that'll be a lot
of fun.
But at the end of the day, with30 years in stunts and 10 years
working with the Army and justthe academic side of things as
well all those things were ableto come together in that high
stakes performance arena.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So that's how that's part of my journey and how I
landed in that space excuse me,what I really was really
enamored, actually, about yourstory and in preparing for
today's show is that you'velived your life and I what I
would say is a pretty highstress, high performance areas
being a stuntman.
And while it's really cool forus to sit in the movie theater
(10:14):
and watch some guy fall from 30feet in the air and jumping over
stuff and blowing up things, ifit's not done correctly, if the
plan isn't perfect, everythinggoes off right.
There's a life and deathsituation, and not all of us are
going to be in that, but wehave moments where it feels like
that similar to myself as well.
I went through a divorce when Iwas in my actually on my 30th
(10:36):
birthday, basically and that attime can feel like a life and
death situation, and so I knowyou've worked with people in all
different areas in that, and sowhen we have this, this
pressure and this stress on us,you utilize this Eastern
psychology and ideas to helpmanage that.
Let's talk a little bit abouthow you married these two
(10:57):
seemingly opposite ideas tosomething that we can be.
It can help us live much morefulfilling.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Yeah, let's start where you started.
Which was this the idea?
In terms of stunts?
Yeah, I've been in situationswhere if I did it wrong, then I
or somebody I was working withmay not go home at least in the
same condition that we showed upin.
Yeah, that is obvious.
That's a high stakes situation,and other people police
officers, military people,firefighters, construction
(11:26):
workers there are a lot ofpeople who find themselves in
similar situations and those arepretty easily identifiable as
high stakes moments just becauseof the gravity of the physical
safety involved.
But high stakes doesn't have tobe, like you pointed out, life
and death types of things.
It doesn't have to be aboutphysical risk.
(11:46):
It can be about emotional risk.
High stakes moment might behaving a challenging
conversation with a spouse or aloved one or a peer or friend.
Those are situations where theconsequences really matter, and
that's how I define high stakesperformance.
It's just any performance wherethe consequences are really
(12:08):
important to you, where theoutcome matters.
That's a high stakes moment,and in those moments is where
stress and pressure sometimeslive.
They don't have to, and I thinkin order for us to perform to
our potential, they shouldn't.
But at the end of the day, whenwe're talking about high stakes
moments, it really is trulyjust any situation.
(12:30):
We, not too long ago, just hadthe holidays happen and one of
those times for a lot of peopleis you have a lot of family over
and you have gatherings oryou're cooking meals for people
and I promise there are peoplelistening to this who recognize
oh yeah, that was reallystressful, that was.
I felt a lot of pressure to getall of that in the right place.
And stress and pressure, by theway, they're not the same thing
(12:52):
.
I'm using them interchangeably.
We can get into the definitionslater too, but my point is that
just regular life situationsthat involve no kind of physical
danger or risk are still highstakes.
Might be social risk.
It could be, if I don't getthis right, that I'm going to
lose a relationship withsomebody I care about.
So, yeah, I think it'simportant to understand high
stakes environments more broadlythan sometimes we do Now.
(13:14):
As far as the Eastern Western,bringing those components into
how we work with thosesituations, that's been an
interesting journey too.
It really came through some ofmy own work when I was going
through a rough time in my lifeof just doing a lot of reading
in a lot of places.
So I read research and journalsand things like that from
Western psychology and theoriesand things in that genre.
(13:37):
But I was also reading morephilosophy and I was reading
Western philosophy.
But I was also reading someEastern philosophy and Eastern
religion as well as Westernreligion.
I was reading the Bible and theKoran.
I didn't really get into butthe Torah, the first parts of
the Bible, the Old Testament,christians call it those are
(13:58):
interesting.
But on the Eastern side, theTao Te Ching, the Bhagavad Gita
these are also interestingdocuments, the Hindu Upanishads.
And what struck me as I wasreading from all of these
different sources and all thesedifferent places from writing
that's happened over millennia,literally thousands of years,
was the similarity, so muchsimilarity in terms of how
(14:21):
people are looking at things.
And, by the way, when we getinto pressure, I say that
there's no such thing as apressure situation, and the
reason for that is becausesituations themselves don't
cause anything, they just are.
And that's one of thoseconcepts that transcends Eastern
(14:42):
and Western ideologies and themillennia, because, from
cognitive psychology standpoint,when we're in situations, we
can perceive them in any numberof ways.
We can think about them howeverwe want to and if we perceive
the situation in one way, we'regoing to experience certain
emotions.
If we perceive it in adifferent way, we're going to
(15:04):
experience certain emotions.
If we perceive it in adifferent way, we're going to
experience different emotions.
So it's not the situationthat's driving our feelings and
our actions, it's how we'reinterpreting that situation.
And that's now.
That's cognitive theory now.
But Shakespeare said the samething 500, 600 years ago in
Hamlet.
He said nothing is good or bad,but thinking makes it.
(15:25):
So there's no good or bad otherthan just how we think about it
.
That's what makes it.
And Epictetus said the samething 2000 years ago it's not
events that disturb us, it's howwe think about those events.
So the concepts that I'mbringing out are absolutely not
new, but they transcend time andthey continually show up in
(15:45):
these different pieces ofliterature.
And to me that's wisdom.
When you're reading the samething from 2000 years ago that
you're reading today, and it waswritten in India and it was
written in I don't know NewJersey, you got to pay attention
to that.
That's some wisdom.
So that's how those seeminglydifferent areas have coalesced
and come together for me toreally drive my thinking about
(16:09):
and the types of interventionsthat I provide in the work that
I do.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
And I can see the clarity that brings as well.
When we recognize and I thinkthat's part of the challenge.
I was focused on men's workhere and I think about the men
that I, that I work with, howfor lack of a better term how,
at a surface level, we are, wejust didn't, we feel that we're.
Everything outside of us iswhat is what affects us, and
(16:34):
when we recognize that that'snot really the case and it's our
mindset and how we framed itand the stories that we've
wrapped ourselves around canreally create that environment.
And so you're absolutely right,and I think that's where you
talked a little bit about andthe stories that we've wrapped
ourselves around can reallycreate that environment.
And so you're absolutely right,and I think that's where you
talked a little bit about.
Well, there's really twodifferent and I would agree with
you.
There's two different aspectsto pressure versus stress, and
so let's unpack that a littlebit as well, because I think,
(16:57):
for many of us, we believe thatwhen we are faced with these
obstacles, that we need to be inthese high pressure moments in
order for us to be successful,and I don't think that's really
the case.
It may be on occasion, but it'snot necessarily the case.
So let's unpack how the yourdefinitions on those two.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah, so pressure and stress are different in this
way.
Pressure exists in the future.
It's the result of focusing onconsequences, things that may or
may not happen as a result ofsuccess or failure, and that
part's important.
People don't really think aboutthat as much as I think they
ought to.
We can experience pressure whenwe are focused on good
(17:39):
consequences, meaning if I nailthis presentation in front of
all these people, my career ison the fast track, I'm going to
take off, my ticket's punched,I'm good.
There is a tremendous amount ofpressure that we can feel if
that's where our focus is.
If I screw this presentation upin front of these people, I'm
going to get fired, I'm notgoing to get any work, I'm not
(18:00):
going to be able to pay my bills, and that also creates pressure
.
But pressure stems fromattention placed on potential
consequences, and we can getinto that more in a little bit,
a little bit later too, becauseI think that's valuable.
But stress is about thesituation itself and
specifically how we areinterpreting and perceiving that
(18:21):
situation.
So the model of stress that, Ithink, makes a lot of sense.
It comes from two theorists,lazarus and Folkman.
It's called the transactionalmodel of stress, but what
essentially it says is that whensituations happen, there's a
primary appraisal and asecondary appraisal.
The primary appraisal is thissituation a threat to me or not?
If I believe it's a threat,then I move on to the secondary
(18:46):
appraisal, which is do I believethat I have the necessary
resources to deal with thisthreat?
So stress goes away.
If in the primary appraisal wesay no, this isn't a threat at
all, no problem, there is nostress.
There is no stress.
But if we say yes, this is athreat, then do I have the
(19:09):
resources?
Starts getting asked.
And if we answer the questionno, you know what?
I don't think I have theresources necessary to deal with
this.
Now we start to experiencestress.
If we answer the questiondifferently yes, I do believe
that I have the resources todeal with the situation Then
stress for sure lowers, if notgoes away.
For example, I've done probablya dozen over the course of my
(19:31):
stunt career car hits, gettinghit by a car.
Stunt people aren't verycreative naming things.
It's just stair falls you falldown the stairs.
Car hits you get hit by cars.
High falls you fall from high.
It's very straightforward.
But in this particular caseI've been hit by a car a lot of
times and each time that I'vebeen standing in front of the
car as it's driving at me, I'mperceiving that situation as a
(19:58):
threat because it is Somethingbad might happen to me in this
situation.
I can't say it's not a threat,it is.
But then I moved to thesecondary appraisal and I asked
okay, do I have the resourcesnecessary to handle this threat
effectively?
And the answer's been yes everytime.
When the answer's no, it's timeto step out of the way of the
car and do something different.
So it's not about avoidingnecessarily situations that we
(20:20):
perceive as threats.
Those can be great momentsbecause they can make us feel
alive, they can move us forward,propel us in the direction we
want to go.
It really will come down to ifwe do perceive it as a threat,
those resources, and byresources physical resources,
mental resources, emotionalresources, social resources,
spiritual resources, financialresources.
(20:41):
There are a lot of differentresources, but that's where
stress is.
So stress is about thesituation, our perception of the
situation as a threat or not,and our belief about whether or
not we have the resources todeal with that situation
effectively, whereas pressurehas nothing to do with the
situation.
It's about the imaginedconsequences associated with
(21:03):
success or failure in thosemoments.
So that's the differencebetween the two.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
That makes complete sense to me as well, because
when we think about pressure, itis about a potential outcome,
and so that's what we're gettingconcerned about, and so that
makes complete sense to me, andso would you say that in your
work, then that's one of thecommon mental mistakes that
people are making when they'rein a high performance
(21:28):
environment, regardless of whatit is that they're
misinterpreting the situation,or is there other things going
on?
Speaker 3 (21:35):
If we're talking about pressure, what happens is
people will sometimes believethat focusing on the
consequences here's the path.
Okay, so we focus on theconsequences.
They're really important, theymatter, they're high stakes.
The stakes are high, theconsequences matter, and this is
something that I will sometimeschallenge people with, because
sometimes we can make mountainsout of molehills.
(21:55):
But at the same time, I don'tchallenge it that much, because
if somebody believes something'simportant, then it probably is,
and in some situations it'sinarguably important.
The consequences matter.
So let's just assume that theconsequences really truly do
matter.
The person's perception of theconsequences and their
importance are accurate In thatsituation.
(22:17):
If my attention is on thoseconsequences, then I will start
to experience pressure.
Now, this is the part wherepeople will start to believe
that, okay, yeah, as I start tofeel that pressure that gives me
that energy to get myself going.
And the answer to that is yes.
So what people do is they saypressure helps me perform better
(22:39):
, but they're missing the why.
And the why is when weexperience pressure, the
sympathetic nervous systemactivates, and the why is when
we experience pressure, thesympathetic nervous system
activates, and so our heart rateincreases, our breathing
increases, muscle tensionincreases All those things that
our body does to prepare us foraction happen, and there is
that's called arousal.
(22:59):
So our arousal level is ourlevel of pumped-up-edness, and
there's a certain level ofarousal, a level of
pumped-up-edness for any givenperformance that allows us to
perform to our potential.
And so what pressure can do iselevate arousal to a place that
allows people to perform totheir potential, and it's that.
(23:22):
And so then they do well, andafterward they think back oh
yeah, there was a lot ofpressure there and I did.
It must've been the pressurethat caused me to do well, but
it didn't.
What happened was the pressurefacilitated the arousal level,
and the arousal level allowedyou to be at your best.
So the question is is pressurehelpful?
(23:45):
It can be from an arousalstandpoint.
But here's the problem withpressure.
If we're experiencing pressure,by definition our attention is
on the future.
It's on the outcomes, theconsequences, meaning that our
attention is not in the presentmoment on those task-relevant
(24:05):
things that need to happen inorder for us to achieve the
outcome that we want.
So our attention is misplaced.
We are going to do our bestwhen our attention is focused in
the moment on those things thatwe can control, that drive
success, that create conditionsfor success to occur.
They don't guarantee success,but there are things we can do
(24:30):
right now, in this moment, thatset conditions for the outcomes
that we want and our attentionon the future, those potential
outcomes.
That is not helpful.
Now caveat where it can behelpful and this is another miss
.
It's just a confusion aboutwhat pressure is.
Some people will conflatepressure with motivation.
So can consequences motivate us?
(24:56):
For sure the answer to thequestion why that's a big.
Simon Sinek has a big.
This is his whole thing.
You know the why, find your why?
Yeah, if you're going into asituation ask yourself the
question, why do I care, whydoes this matter to me?
And the answer to that may bethose consequences, and that's
okay because those can bemotivators, like just
understanding why it is I'mdoing something, but that drive
(25:19):
forward the importance, thevalue of the consequences.
100% can boost motivation ifwe're thinking about them, but
not in the moment.
We have to let that go.
So pressures around feelinglike those consequences, when
our attention is on them, are soweighty that it makes us hard
(25:42):
to perform.
So, ahead of time, what we needto do is boost motivation.
If you want to think aboutconsequences, to do that, no
problem.
Understanding your why isimportant, but when we're
performing, or when we're evenpreparing to perform, focusing
on those things that will allowus to be at our best the
breathing, our muscle, physical,what's going on physically in
(26:02):
our bodies, do we have the rightarousal level?
Do we have our bodies prepared?
Did we sleep well?
Did we eat the way that weneeded to?
Mentally, where's our mind?
Where's our focus?
Where's our attention?
Are we paying attention tothings that we can control, that
we can leverage in thosesituations?
Emotionally, where are we?
Socially, where are we?
Are we talking to people?
(26:23):
No-transcript.
(26:57):
The pressure as a result, thenervous system goes up.
As a result, arousal levelsstart to elevate and maybe it
puts them where they need to be.
The problem is sometimes thatpressure puts our arousal levels
way above where they need to beand people don't have the
strategies to come back fromthat.
And the other thing torecognize is just the pressure.
Yes, it does elevate arousallevels.
Can that be helpful?
(27:17):
Sure, but there are a lot ofother ways to elevate arousal
levels that still allow us tokeep our attention and focus
where it needs to be Not on theimagined outcomes, not on the
possible, maybe consequences,but on the real, tangible,
no-kidding things in thispresent moment that we can do.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
That makes complete sense to me and I think when we
come back to, when we can payattention to what's happening
right now and in the moment andI loved how you started to ask
those questions about everydifferent aspect in my life and
so when I'm asking myself thatit gives me a barometer now and
then I can make a better plan tomove forward, and it sounds
(27:58):
like we're probably diving in alittle bit into your now.
I call it phase X.
I don't know if it's phase X orphase 10, but you have this
program and I'd like to talk alittle bit about how you're
using this to help everybody getto work in their everyday life
and how men can look at thisstuff, at this work that you're
doing.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Yeah yeah.
There are four programs that Ihave.
Phase X is one of them.
The pressure X or flow underfire it's sometimes in some of
the keynotes and stuff that Igive is that really
differentiates stress, and thenstarts talking about pressure
from that standpoint ofconsequences and then brings in
the facts, which are focus,arousal, confidence and tenacity
.
That's how we deal withpressure.
(28:36):
Same thing with stressdifferentiates.
It talks about the stress modelwhich I've already discussed,
and then we get into, okay, thefacts.
How do we use these toeliminate stress and get
ourselves into a place where wecan perform well?
Phase X is a four-phasedapproach to performance and it's
one that came out of work thatI was doing with the military.
(28:57):
There were a couple of us thatwere just sitting around one day
and we were thinking about howto integrate mental skills
training into the Army.
It had never been done, theprogram was brand new, the Army
had just purchased it.
I was on the cutting edge ofthat one at the very first and,
for better and worse, we got toinvent that program.
But that was the conversation.
How do we do this, how do weput this stuff in?
(29:18):
And the conversation was for alittle bit about what are the
skills, what are the mentalskills that soldiers might
benefit from?
So, for example, mental imageryor cue words or performance
routines, things like that.
But then the question shiftedto okay, but when should they
use those skills?
And nobody had ever writtenabout that, like connection of
(29:42):
maybe before you perform, theseparticular skills might be
helpful when used in thisparticular way.
Right before the performance,maybe some different skills are
used during, you've got anotherset of skills that might be
helpful.
And then, even after, there canbe skills that we can use to
recover and to learn from whatit is that we've done.
(30:03):
So that conversation around notjust what skills, but when do
we use them, yielded thisfour-phased approach, and the
before, during, after approachis not new at all, but what we
did use is a fourth phase, theright before.
So phase two is right before,and this came out of my work
with stunts, because I startedto think about okay, so when I
(30:25):
show up on set, so how do?
When I show up on set, what doI do?
I show up at work, I eatbreakfast, I go to my trailer, I
put on the wardrobe, I go tohair and makeup.
I get all that.
We go to the rehearsal, welearn what it is we're going to
do, and then we sit around for alittle bit, however long, until
they get around to shooting it,and then we go on set and they
shoot it and then we're done.
And that's the basic process Inthe before part, which is I
(30:49):
arrive and I'm eating breakfastand I'm getting hair and makeup
wardrobe.
Even the rehearsal part, I can'tbe in the same performance
state that I'm in when Iactually need to do the stunt
while shooting.
I can't, I'll run out of energy.
Energy is finite.
We don't have it.
You have to have it.
You have to manage it.
So for truly hours before Ihave to do something different
(31:13):
with myself, I have to regulatemy energy levels differently,
but I still have to keep my mindon the task.
But I can't keep it therecompletely because again I'll
wear myself out mentally, notjust physically.
So it's that balance.
So before there's what it is,but then there's right before,
then there's okay, brian, we'reready for you on set.
That's my cue.
Now we're transitioning frombefore, which is just
(31:34):
maintenance, and just amaintenance of preparation
keeping my body warm but not toowarm, keeping my mind on the
gag when rehearsing it in mymind so that I haven't forgotten
what it is that we did, etc.
We transition from that intookay, now it's time, now it's no
kidding ready to go.
So I have to shift myselfphysically, mentally,
emotionally and even socially.
(31:54):
Sometimes Maybe I was talkingto people about I don't know my
day yesterday.
It's time to stop doing that.
It's time to start getting intothe task relevant only things,
and that's part of phase two.
So we shift our physical stateto the one where we need to be
in order to perform well.
That's the arousal levels I wastalking about.
We shift our mental state,including our focus to task
(32:15):
relevant things, where ourattention is focused on what we
absolutely have to do in thismoment to perform well, our
emotional state.
We clue into that and make thatwhere it needs to be.
So that's the right before it'sgetting ourselves, it's
shifting from that before justwalking around level to
performance level and thenaction.
Now we're in it, now we'redoing it.
(32:37):
So what are the skills that Ican use during the stunt itself
and then cut?
Now it's after.
What do I do?
How can I recover?
I've just expended a lot ofenergy.
How do I recover that energyeffectively and how do I learn
from that experience?
What are some tools that I canuse in order to ensure that the
(32:57):
next time I do this and that'sthe thing about performance too
is there usually is a next time.
It may not be a take two, thathappens immediately, but, for
example, a lot of people they'lllead meetings at work or
they'll give presentations everynow and then.
Those don't happen all the timefor most people, but they'll
happen and they'll happen again.
It may be once a year, might beevery once, every three years,
(33:18):
but whatever we're doing,typically we will do it again.
So how can I learn from it andapply what I've learned the next
time around?
That's phase four.
So phase X is really abouthelping people in their own
performance arenas, whateverthose might be, identify for
themselves what someperformances are that matter to
them and helping them breakthose performances down into
(33:40):
those four phases.
Defining what those four phasesare for them Right defining
what those four phases are forthem and then teaching some of
the skills and then applyingthose skills within those phases
so that people have a framework.
That's the thing about big,important, especially high
stakes performances.
We can get very overwhelmedwith the whole situation.
(34:01):
There's so much, it matters somuch and there are so many
things, and what do I do beforeand what happens if I screw it?
Like there's just so much, itmatters so much and there are so
many things, and what do I dobefore and what happens if I
screwed?
Like there's just so much andit's very hard for us to latch
on to and really hang on to thepresent moment and the things we
need to be doing right now tohelp us out.
That's what this Phase Xprogram is designed to do At any
(34:21):
given moment, whether you're inthe before, the right before,
the during or the after.
And since you know that, youalso know what physical, mental,
emotional, social things youneed to be doing in order to
prepare you for success.
And that's that program.
What?
Speaker 1 (34:38):
I really like about this program and the way you've
broke it down, is that this canbe applied.
As I was saying in the intro,it doesn't matter we may not be
in life-death situations, butwhen we have to have that
crucial conversation with aspouse, a child, an employee
maybe it's a peer, any type ofsituation if we have a framework
to help us prepare to get intothat, so that we can have the
(35:03):
most success in that outcome aspossible with the, I would
suggest, probably with the leastamount of stress not saying
you're ever eliminated, but youcan go in with more confidence
then that's really beneficial.
And what I really appreciate isthat you added that after part,
because a lot of times I talkto folks on the podcast and they
have a tool and they have astrategy, but it doesn't really
(35:24):
finish the COSA loop, becauseafter you've expended all this
energy you're, if you don't havea way to decompress and to
re-regulate yourself, you'reprobably not doing yourself any
good, and so I really like thatyou've incorporated and
considered that aspect of it.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Yeah, that's a big part, In fact, even with some of
the.
I'll take swimmers, for example.
When I've worked with swimmers,they'll finish a race and then
after the race they talk totheir coach about whatever
happened, and after the racethey're either happy or they're
not.
There's some sort of emotionalreaction to what happened.
So what I coach them to do isdo your race, finish the race.
(36:00):
You've got the results.
Experience the results for alittle bit.
If you're happy about them, behappy.
If you're disappointed, bedisappointed.
Just experience those momentsfor a little bit before you try
to analyze what's going on.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Right.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Because the analysis will not be as effective if it's
colored by, and really drivenby, the emotional state that
we're in.
So just take a little bit tomanage the emotions, accept what
is in that particular situation, whether you're happy about the
performance or not and then,after a little bit, after you've
taken that time to bring yourphysiology back down to baseline
again and you've experiencedthe emotions, you've taken time
(36:37):
to accept what is.
Now you can go have theconversation with the coach, or
get into, if there's not a coach, or just get into your own mind
and really break down whathappened throughout the
performance, because it's animportant thing to do.
But again, it's not about thewhat, it's about the when.
So should we break downperformance?
(36:58):
For sure we should.
Should we do it immediatelyafter getting out of the pool or
whatever?
The equivalent is Probably not.
It's not going to be aseffective.
So the when is really important.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
I like and I like that.
And so, guys, I hope you're,when you're listening to this,
you're paying attention to it,because we tend to gloss over.
This part is that we don't liketo experience, especially if
it's a, I'll say, a negativeemotion, whether it's anger or
fear, or sadness.
And when we have theopportunity to really experience
that not sit in it for a longtime, but to experience it then
(37:31):
we get an opportunity that wecan come at it with a more
conscious mindset.
And so I really appreciate thatyou explained that to us,
because I think it's reallyimportant for us.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
first, Go ahead, brian.
Yeah, I appreciate you bringingthat up too, because the way I
think about it is in three partsreally is one is self-awareness
, so being aware of what we'redoing, how we're feeling, how
we're thinking, how we're seeingsituations, et cetera.
Then, once we're aware of thosethings, then we have to accept
(38:03):
them.
And when I say accept them,again some people get confused
Sometimes.
I don't mean acquiesce, I don'tmean give up, I don't mean just
throw in the towel when I sayaccept things as they are, just
accept them as they are, asopposed to trying to gloss them
over or trying to rationalizethings or even just ignoring
them altogether.
It's just accept what is.
(38:24):
You can like it, you can notlike it, it can be pleasant or
unpleasant, but it is, and let'sjust acknowledge the truth of
that.
The situation is how it isBecause as soon as we do that
now, we can move forward withself-regulation, with changes,
with actions that are productive.
Because here's the thing wedon't accept what is and we just
we become aware of some stuffand then all of a sudden we
(38:47):
start making changes, but wehaven't really taken the time to
thoroughly sit in and I don'tknow, think through what it is
that's happening as the realitythat we're experiencing.
We can tend to just waste awhole bunch of time on actions
and different self-regulationthings that aren't helpful
(39:09):
Because they're not really beingapplied to the actual issue.
So first step is awareness.
Second step is acceptance Justreally being sure about where I
am, what I'm feeling, what I'mdoing, how things are.
Because then, once I am surenow, it's probably more likely
that the effort and energy thatI expend to do something about
it will be targeting the rightthing and I'll see results.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Completely agree with that.
Love the way you reframe that.
I'm sure in your journey, brian, there must have been one or
two people maybe it was evenbooks or something you've read
but a mentor, something that hasreally stuck with you.
So my question for you iswhat's been a piece of advice
that you've been given that isstill serving you today?
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Yeah, I've had.
It's funny when you say that,and I've done this same thing in
a few classes.
I've asked what leader reallyinspired you or really made a
difference in your life, andinevitably somebody pops into
people's heads and I've had afew of them just pop into mine
right there while you weretalking.
I don't know the specific pieceof advice that I got from them,
but I can tell you that mydrama teacher in high school is
(40:15):
the, the, the password questionsthat make you reminded like
who's your favorite teacher inhigh school?
That's him I've got.
He's my password remindersometimes.
And and I just.
The reason for that is becausehe was in a school.
It was a public high school andhe just did things his own way.
There was a curriculum I'm surethere was expectations through
the school or whatever, but heran his class in a way that was
(40:38):
student-centered.
There was no cookie cutterapproach.
It didn't.
Grades were just a byproduct.
He didn't even care.
What he wanted to do is exposekids to something new.
He wanted to foster curiosityand exploration.
And having kids this is a dramaclass too, and this is high
school kids.
So having kids feel some ofthat anxiety and fear sometimes
(41:04):
that come along with puttingyourself in front of somebody
where you can be judged, thosehigh stakes performance moments.
He wanted to create a climatefor people that allowed them to
be in those high stakes momentsand be in what Vygotsky called
the zone of proximal development.
So it wasn't too hard but itwasn't too easy.
(41:25):
There was challenge, but it wasright in the right spot and
that was his focus.
He didn't care at all what therules of the school were or what
the program.
He just wanted the kids to walkout of that class better than
they walked in, and for methat's been so.
Again, it's not advice, it'sjust more emulation.
That's what I try to do.
I try to do that with thepeople I'm working with.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
I try to do it with myself, I try to do it with my
kids.
I just want to see the bigpicture, the intent, the focus.
How can we be in these momentsand walk out better than we
showed up?
Hey, regardless of whetheradvice or not, it was something
that you picked up and you'restill using it today, and that
was the key for that question.
So thank you so much forsharing that Of everything that
we spoke about today, brian, andmaybe there was something we
didn't get a chance to touch on.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
What would be a takeaway you'd want our
listeners to have.
One is just opportunity,because when we start talking
about high stakes situations,there's a lot of opportunity in
those moments.
But I think that in order foropportunity to be realized,
three things have to happen.
Number one is we have torecognize that the opportunity
is there at all.
So we have to open ourawareness up to things that
(42:37):
maybe we're not paying attentionto.
We have to stop being narrow inour focus and attention and
really broaden out to otherpossibilities, just see that
they exist, and then, once we'vedone that, then you know maybe
the opportunity comes up.
We see that Then what'srequired is then, once we've
done that, then you know maybethe opportunity comes up.
We see that Then what'srequired is flexibility, because
(42:57):
we've got our attention andfocus and energies going in one
direction, but the potentialopportunity might require us and
probably will to shift thatdirection.
So we have to be comfortablewith yeah, I was going, but I
see this and now I'm going to goleft because that's a better
way to go, and this gets into,especially in the Western
cultures, I don't knowpreoccupation with grit and
(43:20):
perseverance and tenacity.
It's just we have to stick withit.
You can't quit.
I'm saying no quit If theopportunity, if you're going
right and an opportunity tobetter yourself.
If it happens, if you go to theleft, well, quit going to the
right and go to the left.
But then once we recognize thatand we say okay, yeah, that's
the right way to go, that is theright path, then the next step
(43:41):
I think is the hardest, and thisis where most people get hung
up it's having the courage totake that first step, because
it's into the unknown.
There's uncertainty there andhuman beings we don't like
uncertainty, we don't operatewell in that, but that's what's
out there.
We don't know what this newdirection is going to bring.
(44:03):
We're going to leave the known,because we've been pursuing it
for however long we have, andwe're going to enter the unknown
.
That's a scary thing to do andit requires courage, but if
we're going to take advantage ofopportunity always exists in
that unknown, unexplored space.
So, number one, we have to openour awareness so that
opportunities are evenrecognized at all.
(44:24):
Number two, we have to have theflexibility to shift from what
we think we want right now, whatthe goals are that we have in
this moment, to these othergoals.
And then number three just, wehave to develop that courage to
try to take that leap, to takethat.
It's one of the things that, inthe performance moments, I've
never had an easy way todescribe it, but it's been so
(44:45):
powerful.
For me it's this moment of thepoint of no return.
For example, if I'm going to doa high fall, I'm standing on
top of the ledge of the buildingor whatever it is and I'm
looking down at the mat.
I'm just standing there.
I can stand there for timeeternal and I can lean forward a
little bit too and still beable to stand there.
But at some point there's apoint of no return and I'm going
(45:06):
to fall.
When I reach that point of noreturn, there is no going back.
I can't step back, I can't undowhat is.
I have to go forward, and thatmoment is a very freeing moment
For me.
It's been a moment where if Iwas experiencing nervousness at
all in the moment, itimmediately disappeared as soon
(45:27):
as that point of no returnhappened.
This has happened with comedytoo.
I did stand up comedy for alittle bit, and so I was
standing off to the side of thestage, petrified, more scared
than I'd ever been to be hit byany car, and and and then the
guy called my name and I startedup the stairs and the light hit
me.
And as soon as that light hitme I knew that was it, that's
(45:47):
the point of no return.
I can't go back, I can't justwalk down the stairs Now, before
that I could have run, I couldhave headed out the door, but
when the light hit me, that wasit, point of no return, and the
nervousness disappeared.
So it's a really cool momentthat I've experienced a lot and
(46:10):
just I put that out there topeople to just say, look, the
nervousness, the anxiety, thefear, all of those things are
there.
But, man, with that first step,that movement from safety into
the unknown, into that nextphase, is a cool moment if you
allow yourself to experience itas that.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Absolutely, absolutely.
What a great way to wrap up ourconversation today.
I would say thank you so much,brian, for spending time with us
today, and I know yourexpertise on sports psychology,
resilience and really how we cannow learn to master our
high-stakes moments in life, andI want to say thank you so much
for sharing those insights andthe framework for us.
And so if men are interestedand wanting to get a hold of you
(46:49):
participating in your work,what's the best way for them to
do that?
Speaker 3 (46:53):
Yeah, please visit the website.
You can see the program's there.
It's going through some updatesnow.
It doesn't quite reflectexactly what it is that I'm
doing exactly the way it needsto.
But if you've got questions,please email me.
Brian at brianheightglobalcom,b-r-i-a-n-h-i-t-e Global,
g-l-o-b-a-lcom.
You can email me at BrianHeightor Brian at
(47:14):
BrianHeightGlobalcom, or you canjust schedule a discovery call
right from the website.
There's an easy way to do that.
Please do, because, seriously,just the way that you led off at
this podcast if you areexperiencing challenges with
stress and pressure oroverwhelmed in any type of
situation that matters to you,if that's something you struggle
with and you don't havesomebody to hold your hand
(47:35):
through it, please reach out tome.
I've been there.
I've been in those situationsin my personal life.
I've been there in myprofessional lives and it's a
really it's a hard place to be.
So please reach out.
I'd love to talk to you and seeif there's something I can do.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Absolutely.
I'm want to challenge you withone thought If you are reacting
to pressure, or are you reallymastering it?
And so there's going to be adifference between those who
thrive and those who struggle.
(48:08):
And this isn't about talents,it's about how they handle the
moments, and the moments matterthe most, and so I want to
introduce you to a program thatwe're running.
It's called Living WithIntegrity.
It's designed to help men breakfree from stress, take control
of their mindset and step fullyinto their leadership potential.
If you're ready to perform atyour peak and without the weight
of unnecessary pressure, takethe first step today.
(48:30):
Visit us atmembersthewakeandmannet.
Take our free integritychallenge opportunity for you to
live with clarity, lead withconfidence.
Get your start right now.
Thank you very much, everyone,for enjoying this episode.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Thank you for listening to the Revolutionary
man podcast.
Are you ready to own yourdestiny, to become more the man
you are destined to be?
Join the brotherhood that isthe Awakened man at
theawakendmannet and startforging a new destiny today.
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