November 2, 2025 • 48 mins
Let me know your thoughts on the show and what topic you would like me to discuss next.
In this episode of the Revolutionary Man Podcast, host Alain Dumonceaux is joined by family coach and licensed therapist Todd Sarner to explore the challenges and triumphs of fatherhood. They delve into the importance of being present over being perfect, the middle path between dominance and connection, and the need for fathers to be positive, empathetic leaders in their families. The discussion also covers the significant influence of childhood experiences and the role of mentorship in becoming an evolved masculine presence. Tune in to hear practical advice and inspiring stories that will help you lead your family with strength and compassion.
Key moments in this episode:
04:05 Todd's Journey to Family Coaching
13:10 Navigating Masculinity and Emotional Health
24:52 The Role of Men in Leadership at Home
28:00 Differences in Communication: Work vs. Home
32:17 Parenting Challenges and Learning New Skills
42:16 The Hero's Journey and Personal Growth
45:21 Final Thoughts and Resources for Fathers
How to reach Todd:
Website: https://transformativeparenting.com/
Social Media Contact Information:
FB: https://facebook.com/tparenting
IG: https://www.instagram.com/tparenting/
In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/toddsarner/
YT: https://www.youtube.com/@TransformativeParenting
Thanks for listening to the Revolutionary Man Podcast. For more information about our programs, please use the links below to learn more about us. It could be the step that changes your life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
One of the hardest roles a man will ever take on
isn't in the office.
It's not in the military.
It's not even playing it on theplaying field.
It's going to be in the livingroom.
It's the fatherhood.
It's parenting, and it's leadinga family.
And yet so many of us step intothis role without a playbook.
We want to be strong, steady,and present for our kids, but
reality is we start to lose ourtemper.
(00:22):
We feel exhausted and we jugglethe weight of career, marriage,
and expectations while quietlywondering, am I getting any of
this stuff right?
To add to the endless advice,there's books and blogs and
Instagram reels about gentleparenting, and suddenly the
pressure starts to mount,doesn't it?
But what if the answer isn'tabout being perfect?
(00:42):
What if the real gift we cangive our kids is not
performance, but our presence?
So now that's what we're goingto dig into today.
It's going to be a bit messy.
It's beautiful and it's atransformational journey, what
fatherhood's all about.
But before we dive in, I justwant to ask you one favor.
If you know a father or if youare one who's been wrestling
(01:02):
with the pressure of getting itright, then please hit that like
sub and subscribe button.
Let's share this episode.
These are the kinds ofconversations that are not just
for the two of us who are goingto have it today, but it's for
the next generation who's goingto go on and live with the
legacies that we're leavingbehind.
And so with that, let's get onwith today's episode.
SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
The average man today is sleepwalking through
life.
Many never reaching their truepotential, let alone never
crossing the finished line toliving a purposeful life.
Yet, the hunger still exists,albeit buried amidst its
cluttered mind, discreditedbeliefs and values that no
longer serve him.
It's time to align yourself forgreatness.
(01:47):
It's time to become arevolutionary man.
Stay strong, my brother.
SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
Welcome everyone to the Revolutionary Man Podcast.
I'm the founder of the AwakenMan movement and your host, Alan
DMonso.
Before we get started, I have acouple questions I'd like you to
consider.
What do your kids actually feelwhen you walk into the room?
Your calm presence or the hiddentension you carry from the day?
(02:14):
And are you leading your familyfrom grounded confidence or from
the pressure that you need toperform?
Truth is, kids don't needperfect parents.
They need present ones.
And presence is something thatevery one of us can choose, and
we can do that starting today.
And so in order for us to dothat and understand it, allow me
to introduce my guest.
Todd Sanner is a family coach,licensed therapist, and the
(02:36):
founder of the TransformativeParenting, where he has spent
over 20 years leading parents toshift from survival mode to
confident, connected leadership,not just at home, but in their
lives.
And so he started this careerworking directly with children,
but quickly realized that thegreatest breakthrough was going
to happen when he empowered theparents instead.
And so through his writing andcoaching and community work,
(02:58):
Todd challenges high-achievingparents to just slow down, let
go of perfectionism and stepinto a leadership role that
fosters resilience andconnection.
He's really passionate and he'sequipping fathers with and
mothers to raise emotionallystrong kids while breaking the
generational cycles that holdfamilies back.
And so welcome to the showtoday, Todd.
(03:19):
I'm so grateful you're heretoday.
SPEAKER_02 (03:22):
I'm excited to be here, Alan.
I so appreciate the work you'redoing.
That was a great intro.
I love your question.
What do your kids feel when youwalk in the room as a father?
I think we're going to have aproblem today.
And the problem is how do we dothis in less than five hours?
Because I can already tell we'regoing to have a great
conversation and reallyappreciate what you're doing and
(03:44):
having me here.
SPEAKER_01 (03:46):
Absolutely.
And we're going to do our bestto pack in a ton of value, as I
know we always do on this show.
So I have no fears with that.
And so, Todd, every one of us,every man has a turning point in
our lives, don't we?
And it's that moment when theold story just no longer works
for us.
And so, what was that turningpoint for you that shifted you
(04:06):
from working with kids directlyto equipping parents instead?
SPEAKER_02 (04:10):
Maybe some other moments will come up as we go
that were more big, shocking,revolutionary moments.
I think the one you're talkingabout was more a quiet one that
happened over a little bit oftime.
I went into psychotherapyoriginally because my parents
had a really messy divorce.
(04:31):
They didn't do it well.
And I went to therapy when I waslike 13.
My brother and sister and I allhad to go to therapy, court
ordered because the judge, Iguess I wasn't there, but the
judge felt like things were somessy and so antagonistic, and
that these kids must be in a badplace.
(04:53):
So he sent us, and I just lovedit.
I went to see Dr.
Marty, and he was just this kindbut strong presence, and he
listened, and I was like, ooh, Iwant to do that.
I want to be that.
And I didn't think about themasculine aspect of it at the
time.
I didn't think about it kind offather figure-wise at the time,
(05:15):
but I can look back and go, oh,I needed that steady presence.
I needed that holding of space.
And I think even though my dadwas struggling to be that for
different reasons, I it reallyinspired me.
And I've talked about that storybefore, but I haven't talked
about it from the kind ofmasculine holding space.
(05:36):
But Marty really did providethat.
I went back to him when I waslike 20, 19 or 20 for a few
sessions and really valued that.
He passed away a little bitlater.
Then with the same theme, I'mdone with graduate school.
I'm becoming a father myself.
And I have all sorts of trainingwith working with children and
(06:01):
foster and adoptive care, youngboys in group homes who were
just on the edge, the fringes ofthe system, and who might be
incarcerated because the reallydifficult situations in their
life.
And becoming a father myselfaround that time to a boy who's
(06:21):
now 22 years old.
And becoming mentored by my mainmentor, Dr.
Gordon Newfeld, fellow Canadianbrother of yours, who is a UBC
professor and things, and wrotethe book Hold On to Your Kids.
I started realizing, wait, I'mnot supposed to be the answer
for your children.
(06:42):
I'm supposed to be your helperin the background as a parent,
as a man, as a woman, as aparent, to help you be who your
child needs you to be.
It's not my job.
And I'm not saying therapy isnever useful for kids.
It was for me because, butmainly because my parents
weren't able to be there at thetime.
(07:04):
But in general, becoming a dadand being mentored by Dr.
Neufeld, who was saying you arethe answer for your kids.
It really changed.
And everything that I hadstudied for and trained for and
paid ungodly amounts of money toget to that certificate in my
hand, I went, oh no, I need towork with the parents.
(07:28):
And so these days it's half mypractice.
I'm doing parent coaching andI'm working with men and women.
Usually the woman is the one whocomes to me first.
The man comes in kicking andscreaming.
And then we bond and he gets myperspective and he becomes very
(07:50):
enthusiastic about the work.
Same kind of guys you're talkingto, Alan.
Achieving in life, doing verywell.
Mill Valley, California is whereI started, which is this very
affluent Marin County, rightabove San Francisco.
A lot of guys, founders of techcompanies in the city.
(08:11):
And then the other half of thework, and I'm sorry for this
very long answer to yourquestion, thought it would give
us a little foundation, ismarriage counseling.
And I only do marriagecounseling with couples who are
parents.
And so in both roles, I'm justtrying to help them be
essentially who their kids needthem to be and provide that
(08:34):
support and all sorts of thingswe could talk about with that.
But just as a side note, becauseI brought up the theme, Dr.
Newfell became like a fatherfigure, wise male presence in my
life and really helped out a lotin my journey.
Lots of other pieces to that.
But how's that for a start?
SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
Oh, that was outstanding.
Lots of stuff to unpack.
There I was making copious noteshere.
And I there's a few things thatyou brought up, and the idea of
men coming, kicking andscreaming.
I find that even to this daywith guys coming and checking
out men's work and doing it.
And we have we tend to havethese stories that we tell
ourselves.
And I thought a lot of it doescome from our childhood and how
(09:18):
and the things that we wentthrough.
And I know the word trauma tendsto be a this real catchword in
today's.
SPEAKER_02 (09:24):
It's thrown around a lot, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:25):
Around and when everybody has their dose.
But the challenge is that are weprepared to step into it and
actually do that, do the work,regardless of what the story is
behind it.
And I find that when we're braveenough as men, we can start to
do that.
And so I can remember youtalked, you used a phrase there
about holding space.
And so it's used a lot in inmen's circles and that.
(09:47):
So I just thought we should.
We haven't I haven't talkedabout holding space in a really
long time.
So I wanted to unpack that forthe listener today to understand
about what we actually mean bythat.
Because I think when you hearit, maybe the first one of the
first things you think of isthat that kind of doesn't sound
like very masculine, but it inactuality it is.
SPEAKER_02 (10:07):
Oh, it's about the most positive masculine thing
that exists.
Yeah.
Yeah, I guess let's have a backand forth about that because it
there is so much we could talkabout.
I'm influenced a lot in theseconversations by I was in a
men's group at a particularlytough time in my life when I was
(10:29):
trying as hard as I could tohold my family unit in intact
with my son's mother.
We were never married, but I wastrying to hold that together.
I there's nothing I wanted lessthan to live apart from my son
or to not be a family unit.
(10:51):
People don't get married or andI've heard some of your stories
too, Alan, but people don't getmarried and have kids thinking,
hey, let's do this separatelyand have half the holidays and
have other people in our kids'lives like acting as parents
with nobody does that.
So I was at a really desperatespot in my life where I was
(11:13):
like, I need to hold thistogether.
I have to do, I have to dowhatever I can.
And part of where that led me isI was reading a lot of David
Data, Robert Glover, all thethings that guys are reading in
men's group circles and things.
And I joined a men's group inSan Rafael, California, where I
was living at the time.
(11:33):
Jim Benson, amazing coach.
He has a good profile out there.
He'd be a great guest for yousometime.
He had a lot of experience intantric work.
He trained with David Data, hetrained with Robert Glover and
being with that group of guyswhere it was so critical to me
(11:53):
that nobody was sitting theregoing, women this and women
that, and these stupid it waslike guys being honest and being
vulnerable with each other andtrying to strive for being a
positive masculine presence andand be like, how can we be
(12:14):
better?
And that was so valuable to me.
But yeah, one of the things thatI read in data that I would read
and different things was aboutthis holding space.
And data is like talks about thepositive masculine and the
evolved masculine, and how allof us have masculine and
(12:34):
feminine aspects.
And I always find like I have tobe like, I sound like I'm being
politically correct or tryingreally hard to virtue signal
that I'm we all have, it's justtrue.
We all have masculine andfeminine, the yin and the yang.
And I just find in the a lot ofthe heterosexual couples that I
work with, the man is a littlebit more like wanting to
(12:56):
identify with the masculinepresence and the woman in that
in the home and the context ofbeing a wife and mother would
like to be more able to be inher feminine presence.
That's not always true, yeah,but in general, that's what I
find.
And people like tell me if I'mgetting too far afield.
I'm gonna try to bring thistogether.
People like Daniel Siegel, thepsychiatrist who I did some
(13:19):
training with, talked aboutmental health and emotional
health.
One of the simplest definitionsis that we balance the left
brain and the right brain.
We balance the intellectual andthe logical and the need for
structure and the right brain,which is more emotional,
spiritual, spatial, right?
And that we can be more left, wecan be more right, but knowing
(13:44):
both and being able to be inboth is where we're better
problem solvers, right?
Yes, we resonating, we'reresonating so far on this.
There are positive masculineaspects to me, which are being
able to be grounded in that moreleft-brain energy, but have a
knowledge and a knowing and aability to be with the right,
(14:08):
and providing a place where youcan be emotional, feminine
presence, but I'm not gonna jumpin the river with you.
I'm gonna stay on you're beingemotional right now.
That's okay.
There is value in the emotional,there is wisdom in the emotion.
There can be negative masculineand there can be negative
(14:29):
feminine where we're in angerand control, or we're in just
like unrelenting emotionality.
But me being able to sit hereand be what we call in
psychology and spirituality anaware observer, and I can just
hold space for what's happeningand I can watch the storm.
I can say no.
(14:50):
If something's crossing a line,we can get into boundaries.
Great, great topic.
But I can hear you and I canstrive to understand what's
going on underneath the storm.
I can try to understand what thetruth is, and I don't feel like
I have to jump into the rapids.
So I guess it's not a completeanswer at this point, Alan, but
(15:12):
that's where I start to go.
Is to me, what I love about yourmessage is not like, oh, you
have to do this because you haveto deal with that.
It's more like this is a hero'sjourney.
This is a call to adventure.
This, and you use that language,which I love, this is a call to
adventure for you, man, thatlistening to this podcast, to be
(15:34):
better, to be more whole, to bemore complete, to take those
parts of you that aren't all theway mature yet, that want to
react and want to get justice,like a teenager or whatever,
grow those parts up so that youare making choices and you have
free will over what you'redoing.
(15:54):
And in parent coaching and inthe marriage counseling, I find
myself in different ways tryingto elicit that and to support
that and encourage that.
And sometimes I can be a littlechallenging with guys about
that, but it's always from love.
It's come on, come on, you cando better than this.
(16:15):
And I hope there was an I hopethere was an answer in there.
SPEAKER_01 (16:18):
Yeah, you made a you said a statement there that I
hadn't heard before aboutholding space, and you talked
about being able to observe thestorm and not jump in it.
And I think that is such a greatmetaphor for what we mean about
this holding space.
And I've talked about in theintro about this idea of
presence.
When we have limited skills, andlet's face it, for many men
(16:40):
growing up, we have limitedskills.
We've stifled how we've to uhattach to our emotions, the
emotions we do attach to,generally speaking, are not the
healthiest for us.
At least we haven't learned howto use utilize them yet healthy
in a healthy way.
And so we either expressourselves in terms of dominance
(17:00):
and anger, or we suppress it andwe cower down and we do nothing
with it.
And that was more of the latter.
That was my history, really, ofjust emotion, emotions, and then
exploding.
SPEAKER_02 (17:13):
And then it was just that's one of the most that's
one of the most common patternsthat men have.
There's not a lot of patterns,and that's one of the main
patterns.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:23):
We could talk about fawning, the fawning instinct.
And a lot of guys I find thesedays, like most of the men I
work with mean and we can getinto this whole thing about
demonizing men and masculinityand things.
I I can find myself almost goingalong sometimes with oh gosh, us
guys sometimes, we just don'thave emotional intelligence.
(17:45):
But then, but it's usually saidfrom Brotherhood and all of us,
and we there are reasons.
But men are really being, Ithink, demonized in a lot of
ways or made fun of.
I to me, I lost a little bit ofmy thread there, but to me, a
lot of it is about free will.
Is do I have the ability to makechoices based on what I want to
(18:10):
do, or am I doing somethingbecause my dad did it or I was
programmed to do it or whatever?
And that bugs the heck out ofme.
That really, a professor in gradschool brought that up.
He was talking about free willand choice and how unconscious
drives one of my, I'm going offon such a tangent, one of my
most quoted psychological quotesof all time is from one of my
(18:33):
heroes, Carl Jung, who said,until you make what is
unconscious conscious, itdirects your life and you will
call it fate.
And that to me is like theessence of psychology or one of
the main essences.
But yeah, not jumping into theriver.
And I think one of the mainmyths of masculinity is that men
(18:56):
aren't emotional.
It's just not true.
It just manifests in the waysthat you just said, Alan, is I
stuff and I stuff because I'mavoiding conflict or the thread
I was saying before, and I losta little bit was I'm trying to
be a feminist informedpost-macho integrated guy who's
(19:20):
a good guy, and I'm equals withmy woman in, of course, because
that makes sense to me.
It doesn't make sense the allthe stuff that you know happened
before about men assertingdominance over women.
But in that, I'm losing theessence of my positive
masculinity.
Yes.
And sometimes I'm under I'mthinking I'm not being
(19:41):
emotional, but you are.
It's just coming up as anger.
Yeah.
And it's coming up as stuffingyour feelings because you're
afraid of conflict.
And there's something in themiddle of.
So I think that's one of themain themes that's surfacing
here, Alan, is this middle path,right?
That's right.
Is that there's a middle path,and that middle path is I can
(20:04):
say what I feel, I can say no tothings that are destructive, but
I can be loving in that.
I can be kind.
I can strive to empathize withyou.
And empathy doesn't mean I agreewith you.
SPEAKER_01 (20:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:18):
Like I don't need to agree with this huge wave of
emotion coming at me with thingsthat aren't factually accurate
all the time.
I can try to empathize withwhere is that coming from?
How are you feeling?
Yes.
So again, a whole bunch inthere, but I think that's the
work, right?
Is like how do we figure out howto be that middle path of
(20:39):
strength, but empathy.
And that goes to our partner,but that also goes to our kids.
SPEAKER_01 (20:45):
Sure.
And it's a it is really about,you're absolutely right.
It is about that middle path.
I was thinking, as you weresaying that, one of the books
that really propelled me as Iwas going through my journey and
starting to get into men's workwas David Wagner's book on
called Backbone.
unknown (21:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:01):
And he talks in that book about the red path and the
I think the red path and theblack path, right?
And it's just about more aboutthis middle road, this idea of
just being more centered andmore grounded.
That doesn't mean we'reemotionalists.
I also think there's lots ofmyths around what being stoic
really means.
It doesn't mean that we'recompletely emotional.
It means we have, for me,anyways, that we have can we
(21:24):
have control about it.
I recognize there's thingshappening in my body right now
that are elevating my sense ofreaction.
And if we can, the more tools wecan develop within ourselves,
then we have, to your pointearlier, free will to choose a
different path.
But if the only thing that wehave is a hammer, then
everything looks like that, likea nail.
SPEAKER_02 (21:45):
Looks like a nail, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:46):
And so it's developing that skill.
SPEAKER_02 (21:49):
And part of why I wanted to be here with you today
is not at the exclusion ofwomen, but I think most of that
work is meant to be done withmen.
Is I want to show up in myrelationship.
I'm engaged to somebody I'veknown since I was 14 years old.
We've been together a few years.
We're getting married inFebruary as we record this a few
(22:11):
months away.
I absolutely love her and I wantto show up and I want to be, I
want to be able to bring my trueself.
I want to be able to bevulnerable.
I want to be able to share myfeelings.
But a lot of the stuff that'srough, any stuff that's still in
there that is still in theunconscious, any of the stuff
where I notice myself gettingreactive or angry inside, she's
(22:37):
not my it's not her job to be mytherapist.
It's not her job to work thatout with me, really.
If you asked her, she'd probablygo, Yeah, of course.
I'd work out anything with him.
But it's not really her job.
And that takes me to anotherside note.
But I work with a lot of women.
They usually are the ones whocome to me first in couples
counseling and in parenting,like I said.
(22:59):
And I get a lot of my my in oneway or another, my husband is
being like a little boy.
And uh, how many times I'veheard the term when people ask
me how many kids I have, I sayfour, three bore children born
to me and my husband.
That can border on what I'mtalking about.
(23:21):
I don't believe in talking downabout men or because we have our
challenges and we have ourchallenges for reasons, okay?
And we live in a culture that'suh cultures that I know exists
in Canada as well, because Ihave a lot of friends up there
that boys don't cry, and yougotta be manly and you got it,
right?
And I think because of that, menare confused and they're in a
(23:45):
desert in some ways, and they'retrying to find their way out.
But yeah, I the main point ofthis answer was I think it's up
to us to have theseconversations, to listen to
these podcasts, to go and do ourown work.
If you can find a good men'sgroup or a good men's program,
like things that Alan's doingthat actually are like calling
(24:07):
you to your highest self and nothe men woman haters clubs,
little rascals.
I'm aging myself back in the waybefore my time, actually.
Not let's sit around and talkabout how women suck, like I
said before, but actually othermen who are gonna support you
and support your relationshipand your roles as a husband and
(24:28):
a father, and say, Come on, youcan do better.
We love you, but you can dobetter.
Come on.
And I think that's why theseconversations are so important.
SPEAKER_01 (24:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
We in in our group we call thatcompassionate accountability.
I love you, brother, and you'redropping the ball.
Yeah.
And and holding each other to ahigher standard.
Yeah.
This the last little bit of ourconversation, we've actually
been talking a lot aboutleading.
And as I said in the ormentioning in the intro, we tend
to be as men in our private, inour professional lives, we're
(24:59):
lead in leaders of some way,shape, or form.
And so we're leading.
So leading in work and in theboardroom, and or whether we're
through military work oranything like that outside of
the home, my point is.
But when we get home, leading isa little different.
And I'm starting to see more andmore of a shift with men really
starting to understand that weneed to be di uh different at
(25:23):
home, and then that differencecan actually carry forward into
the workplace and be muchdifferent leaders.
So let's talk a little bit aboutthis idea of leading for men and
how we can swift switch fromcontrol and dominance to more of
control and connection.
SPEAKER_02 (25:38):
Yeah, big topic, right?
Oh, we could go on for hoursabout that, and I've had so many
opportunities over the year, andI haven't taken most of them
where a CEO that I saw formarriage issues or for
parenting, I even have this likekind of sub-niche that I joke
(26:00):
about that I had a client oncewho was with a big Hollywood
agency who came to me forparenting, and then he had
breakup issues, and I talked himthrough that from the this kind
of perspective of positivemasculinity, and it went really
well.
And so he started referring meto other people, clients, and
(26:22):
other people in the community.
And so now I have this littlething where occasionally I have
one guy who's just going througha breakup thing and he needs
help with that, and he's ahigh-achieving guy.
But in all these differentroles, I have three different
branches in my brain.
At work, the relationship isdifferent, right?
Now we can talk about how itdoesn't need to be as different
(26:44):
as it is, but at work, we haveobjectives and we have goals and
we have things that we have toachieve.
And in America, there's allthese rules about the
obligations you have to thestockholders to have to do this.
And I work with guys that workat the biggest companies, and
they're not allowed to doanything that doesn't benefit
(27:06):
the shareholders.
If they had, if they wanted todo something because it was the
right thing to do, but it wouldlose a little money, they're not
supposed to do it.
So there's a differentenvironment where if you're my
employee, Alan, sorry to make meyou my employee here.
I want to be kind, I want to becaring, I want to be a good
model, masculine presence andcare about the people who work
(27:31):
for me.
But the context is different.
This is also a financialsituation, and we have to get
goals done.
And if you're not doing yourjob, that affects everyone else.
And so if I'm your boss, I haveto say, hey, Alan, I care about
you.
I care about what's going on.
If you're having a problem inyour personal life, that matters
to me.
(27:52):
But we also have to get the goaldone.
And this is what you're supposedto do, right?
Yeah.
Do you have what you need to dothat?
Yeah.
Okay, I need you to do it.
Yes.
But I can't talk to my wife thatway.
I can't talk to my and what Ijust said, Alan, is perfectly
fine and fair and nice.
Yeah.
That was that's a perfectly kindway to try to be.
(28:13):
I wish I had that boss.
Part of why I do what I do is Ican't stand having bosses.
Yes, I some pe sometimes I jokewith people.
Why are you a therapist?
Because I don't have to work foranybody, right?
Yes.
But what I just explained wasperfectly kind and fair.
Yes.
But I cannot talk to my wifethat way.
Because how is that going tomake her feel?
(28:34):
How I can't talk to my childrenthat way.
Because the context of my loverelationship is I love you.
I care about your feelings.
I don't get into a relationshipwith somebody to achieve
business goals that might haveexisted more in the past, where
okay, I'll marry you, but I getyour dowry and we get the farm
(28:56):
and we do right.
unknown (28:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (28:59):
We come together because we're supposed to
emotionally support each other,but we're also supposed to have
polarity and attraction in wherethere's these things that I need
to be cognizant of and workingwith, but it's not a business
agreement.
And I think that's where a lotof my guy clients they try, and
you know this, it was in yourquestion, but they try to solve
(29:20):
problems at home the way theysolve them at work.
And they try to talk to theirwives the way that they talk to
an employee.
Because I was trained in in myMBA program, or I was trained in
this thing I went to do for TonyRobbins' seminar to do this
thing, and I like Tony, he'sgreat.
But that's not working herebecause the experience of my
(29:42):
wife is you don't hear me, youdon't get me.
Yeah, you're applying that itlike one of my favorite things
to say of all time is what yousaid a minute ago.
You have a hammer and everythinglooks like a nail.
I'm not a nail.
I need you to be present rightnow with what's actually going
on and what I'm I'm actuallysaying.
And so that a guy has totransition from at work, you're
(30:06):
kicking ass, and you're goinghome and you're telling your
wife, I don't have theseproblems at work.
Yeah, because at work you're incharge and everybody has to do
what you say.
That's cheap.
So I I hope that's an answerthat we can work with maybe a
little if you have somefollow-ups.
But yeah, I find that, yeah,your wife's not a nail, your
kids aren't a nail, and you haveto have different kinds of
(30:29):
intelligence and different kindsof leadership.
There are all sorts of thingsyou can take from the ways
you've been able to achieve inlife that you can be informed
by, but they don't apply to loverelationships.
The core of a love relationshipis attachment, which is the
science that I work with.
SPEAKER_01 (30:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:50):
Do you get me?
Do you hear me?
Do you understand me?
An employee shouldn't expectthat's the highest order of our
relationship.
I will strive to do it, but it'snot the main context.
At home, that's it.
My kid might be having a totalmeltdown, but he doesn't need me
(31:13):
or she doesn't need me to yellat him or give him a structured
consequence thing that makes himfeel bad because I'm trying to
get an outcome, and that's whatwe're trying to do is get an
outcome.
They need me to say no to myshitty behavior, to my out of
control, I'm breaking stuff.
(31:34):
But they need me to get why I'mdoing it and where I'm at.
And that's an emotionalintelligence that takes work and
it takes patience and it takesyou working on your own stuff.
And that's not easy.
So the quickest thing I'm goingto do is I'm going to try to
apply something that I do atwork.
SPEAKER_01 (31:51):
Absolutely.
I think the idea here is whatwe're talking about is really
the context and what'shappening.
There may be nuances within askill set that you're developing
that can flow between the two,the two places, the two
environments, but the contextand the environment is so much
different.
There's there's a different kindof skin in the game when you're
(32:12):
working with subordinates versusworking with a partner and your
children.
And I think for me, lots ofreasons why I get out into men's
work, but I wasn't a great dad.
And that was one of the ones,you know, reasons I got into it.
And so I have such challengingrelationships to this day with
both of my sons.
And it's because I used thetactics and the skills at work.
(32:33):
I'm your father, you'll do as Itell you.
This is how things go.
That doesn't work very well.
And so we needed to learn, Ineeded to learn a different
skill set.
And then the skill set wasreally about understanding about
this presence, this idea ofbeing there and looking for more
for connection versus direction.
They're not always asking fordirection, they're just needing
(32:56):
to know that they're being seenand heard.
And I think for many of us asmen, if we recognize that, then
I think we will get some of theneeds that we're met.
I know there's a men's coach outthere, he talks about men
wanting to be respected.
How do we gain respect?
I think that's something that wegive in order to receive.
And if we're not doing that,then how do we expect to be
(33:18):
respected if everything that wedo is disrespectful to the
people that we sit that we say,we claim we care for and we love
them.
SPEAKER_02 (33:26):
And so it's one of the most misunderstood, and I
gotta tell you honestly, Ibelieve in respect, but the way
it comes out of fathers' mouthswith their wives and with their
kids, I almost always cringe andgo, oh no, stop it.
Okay.
(33:46):
Like with your kids, and you'resaying it, Alan, like you can't
demand respect.
One of the most positivemasculine presences in my life
growing up was not my dad, whounfortunately was just very
explosive and angry.
It was my uncle Dick.
And we did not agree onpolitics.
(34:08):
I'm sure he wasn't a perfectdad, but observing from afar, he
raised my two male cousins thatwere a little older than me.
He was a Marine.
He actually joined the U.S.
Marines because back in the dayit happened a lot.
He had a choice go to jail forsomething you did, theft or
something, and when he was 16,or go into the military, right?
(34:32):
And I know that happens inCanada.
I've heard stories.
And he signed up for the Marinesbefore he was legally able to.
He actually got a oh gosh, I'mforgetting right now, early in
the morning here, but uh one ofthe big one of the best, not a
purple heart, but he got one ofthe greatest medals you can get
for valor, and it got taken awaybecause they found out that he
(34:54):
enlisted when he was not 18.
Anyway, he just had this good,strong presence.
He didn't talk that much, but hewas wise and he was strong, and
he just had those eyes thatwent, I see you, I see what
you're doing.
But oh man, I respected thatman.
Yeah, I'm getting tears in myeyes.
(35:16):
He's been gone 10 years, and hewas a tough old guy, and he had
his marine tattoos, but he was akind, loving presence, and I
respect the hell out of thatman.
And he never told me I had torespect him, he just held that
space.
Yeah.
Your kids are almost alwaysacting out of instinct and
(35:39):
what's going on around them.
They are not, you know what I'lldo is I'm gonna totally
challenge my father's manhoodlater by not respecting his
author.
There's not a single kid whowakes up and thinks that.
As teenagers, there's a grayarea where sometimes some of
that might be going on.
But in general, that's not evenhow your teenager wants to see
(36:03):
you.
Okay.
Your teenager wants you to be agood leader.
They want to be able to followyou.
When you are healthily attachedto somebody, you want to follow
their lead.
You want to be like them.
And what I teach and myparenting stuff is not how to
assert that authority or forcethat over anybody, it's how to
earn that and how to keep thatconnection.
(36:25):
Because the truth is, I'veworked with kids that were
abused by their parents, thathad horrible surroundings, and
they still wanted to be withtheir parents.
They still wanted that's howstrong the attachment bond is,
right?
And so when my kid has thingsgoing on in him and around him,
(36:45):
and a lot of it has to do withme that makes him not listen to
me right now.
Yeah, that is not his fault thatI need to yell out of him or
consequence out of him.
It's my job as a leader first togo, okay, again, theme of the
show, Alan.
I might have to say no tosomething he's doing.
That's fine.
(37:05):
I might have to say that'sdestructive, that's not what we
do.
We don't talk to each other thatway, we don't kick the cat.
Okay.
I might have to say thosethings, but I'm also gonna say,
but I love you and what's goingon?
You seem really frustrated,you're mad at me, let's figure
it out.
Okay.
Now I'm not trying to be yourbest friend either.
You mentioned gentle parenting.
(37:28):
Yeah, and I try to live in aplace of non-judgment and as a
person, but also as a parent.
I know parents are so judged, Idon't want them to be feel
right, but boy, something getsme riled up sometimes.
And when it's I watch thispendulum for the last 20
something years, I've been doingthis go from everything's about
(37:50):
gentle parenting, don't setlimits, just be nice.
Yeah, right now I'm with you ifyou're trying to be kind to your
kid, but it it swings all theway over here, and then because
it doesn't work and kids aretalking back, and kids are not
like responding to that becauseyou're not being a leader, then
all the parenting becomes whatit is right now.
Fuck around and find outparenting, which is huge all
(38:13):
over social media.
I didn't even know about itbecause I don't pay attention
that much, but and theneverybody gets harsh, and then
relationships fray and things gobadly, and people get estranged,
and all this, and then they go,I'm gonna go be a gentle parent.
And it's no in the middle path,be a leader.
(38:33):
You're not your kid's bestfriend.
Your mantra is not, oh, how do Imake him happy?
I want my kid to be happy, butthat's not my job.
My job is to take care of mychild, right?
Yes.
Now he's an adult now, and it'snot the same role, but my job is
to take care of you.
(38:54):
And if that happens to make youhappy, and which I think over
time it does, then great, butthat's not my job.
My job is to take care of you,and giving you ice cream for
dinner would make you happy, butit wouldn't necessarily be
taking care of you.
You know what I mean?
So another long answer to yourquestion, but I'm gonna close
the blinds here for the tune ina little.
SPEAKER_01 (39:18):
Nah, no worries.
That was so powerful.
I completely agree witheverything you're saying there.
I think there this pendulum doestend to swing, and everything
out with our work for sure isabout being in the middle road
and having developing skillsthat you can pull more tools out
of the toolbox so we can bebetter leaders as husbands and
fathers and as business leaders.
(39:39):
So I'm just thinking right nowthat there was a father who's
probably listening to thisepisode.
Maybe he's the one who's feelingoverwhelmed and he's a bit
ashamed or afraid that now thathe's messing up, he's hearing us
talk about all this stuff.
What would be a message youwould give to him?
SPEAKER_02 (39:59):
Look at the parts of yourself where you're triggered.
Look at the parts of yourselfthat are might be in your blind
spots.
The things I referred to, CarlJung, until you make what is
unconscious conscious, itdirects your life and you call
it faith.
Fate, sorry.
It's everything we're talkingabout, Alan.
It's switch, and I'm trying notto say it a certain way, switch
(40:22):
from a victim mindset, switch,and victim is so loaded.
I'd rather say switch from thefeeling like you're at effect
and because switch, switch fromfeeling like you have no say in
what's going on around you tounderstanding that you have
(40:43):
enormous ability to changewhat's going on around you.
And it's by you looking at,look, I probably have a lot of
good things about me.
I don't want the message ever tobe you're broken.
You're that's not true.
The guys listening to you, Alan,probably have a lot of things
together in their life.
(41:04):
For them to even be listening tothis, and what I'm already
speaking to the converted or thepeople who are trying to be
converted, right?
But you have a role, and I wantyou to be inspired by that.
Your job is not to be a dictatorover your children, and your job
is not to be dominant machoasshole over your wife.
(41:27):
Your job is to be the leaderthat they need, and that's for
you, and that's for them, andthat's for the situation.
There are no losers if you putall of your effort into how can
I be a better leader?
How can I stop thinking youdon't respect me?
You're not doing my wife doesn'tdo something about it.
(41:49):
And I'm not saying it like thatcoach who's like on TV and
screaming at you that you're ahorrible guy.
I am saying it to you as anotherman, talking to another man who
have had tons of challenges andmade tons of mistakes and done
lots of things that I wish Iwould have done differently.
But I'm still saying there is noother choice.
(42:10):
The only choice is go on thathero's journey.
And Joseph Campbell, I was amixed-up teenager who didn't
think I could be a psychologist.
I wanted to be in psychology, Ididn't think I was smart enough
to do it.
I traveled.
And when I was traveling, goingto Europe a couple times, when I
was like 19, 20, I was readingJoseph Campbell and The Hero's
(42:34):
Journey and Tiknot Han, theBuddhist teacher.
And what I was getting fromJoseph Campbell is hey, this
story is universal.
It's in little villages inAfrica that have no connection
to Star Wars.
They haven't seen it, theyhaven't seen Lord of the Rings
or read it, but they're tellingthe same story.
SPEAKER_01 (42:53):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (42:54):
And so when we see that hero's journey, that's my
main message.
Okay, that's my main message isyou may feel like Frodo, you may
feel like little farmer Luke onTatooine or whatever, and that
who am I to do this?
You are exactly who needs to dothat.
Alan can't solve your family'sproblems.
(43:15):
I can't either.
And I joked with Alan before westarted recording.
That's actually my first name,Alan.
The Alan can't do it for you.
We are guides on your journeythat are walking alongside of
you saying, Come on, let's go.
You can do it, you can bebetter.
But the rewards of being on thepath, not being perfect, but
(43:38):
being on the path and strivingand trying are so outstanding.
They are so great to, even ifyou make mistakes, feel like,
but I gave it my all, and I amtrying to step up.
And the truth is that even if ittakes a little time, you're
gonna see the results andhappier children, happier
(43:59):
spouse, and things going betterbecause your wife doesn't need
you to be dominant over her, sheneeds you to respect her and
love her.
And it's not men are better andmen have to be the it's more
like she just needs you to be aleader who can handle your shit,
who can hold your emotions anddon't erupt in them.
(44:20):
And if she has some of them, youcan help her ride it out and get
through it, and that's what sheneeds because she probably
didn't get a good positive maskand role model, or she did get
some, and that's what she'sexpecting.
So, another really long answer,Alan.
SPEAKER_01 (44:37):
I hope there was a there was so much response in
there.
Todd, there's so much greatstuff sitting in that piece, and
what an outstanding way to wrapus up.
You're absolutely right.
Like we're almost an hour intothis episode.
We could go on for four more.
Yeah, we could say thank you somuch, my friend.
SPEAKER_02 (44:56):
Let's talk again sometime.
SPEAKER_01 (44:57):
We will.
This wisdom you shared was greatwith us.
It's really helping us canreconnect to what fatherhood
truly is about.
And it isn't about us beingflawless in our execution, it's
about being courageous in ourpresence.
And when we learn how to leadour families from empathy,
vision, and connection, I thinkwe're gonna see a vast
difference in our not just inour families, but in our
(45:18):
communities and in theeverywhere else around the
world.
And so I I think about whatwe're the next steps would be
the best way for men to get intouch with you, Todd, join in
some of the some of your work.
SPEAKER_02 (45:30):
Transformative parenting.com.
That not comfortable usuallytouting all the different things
we have.
I try to provide information andhelp for men no matter where
they are on their journey.
If you're in California, I docount couples counseling, but I
also have the parenting program,and you can find out about that.
It's a three-month coachingprogram.
(45:51):
I have a book coming out, and Idon't know if I told you that,
Alan, but it because it wasgoing to be next year.
But I have a book coming outcalled The Calm and Connected
Parent.
In the interest of authenticityand transparency, the book I'm
holding in my hand is completelyfake.
This is a mock-up, but it's doneand it's being read by some
(46:12):
people.
And I don't know, that was 20years of thinking I wanted to
say something, I wanted to saysomething, but I don't know what
I want to say.
The book is for all parents, butit's about becoming a calm,
connected, grounded parent.
I also have another one in methat I've been working on that's
gonna be just for fathers, butI'll tell you about that later.
But yeah, the website, theYouTube channel, Transformative
(46:34):
Parenting with Todd.
If there's something thatresonates with you, anybody
who's listening, if you justhave a question, send it to me.
Todd at transformativeparenting.com.
Go to the website.
I'm not gonna charge you.
Just if you have a question, askme the question.
I'm happy to connect with guys.
And part of why I wanted to behere is I'm a lot of times just
(46:55):
talking to parents in general.
And I just really feelpassionate about our roles as
dads and about us being thatpositive leader.
And I think there can be so muchgood if we embrace that and take
the challenge and take the callto adventure.
SPEAKER_01 (47:12):
Oh, my friend.
Aho.
As we close today's episode, Iwant to leave you with this one
challenge.
Are you striving to be theperfect dad or are you willing
to be a present one?
And so your legacy with yourchildren is going to be
inherited and built upon howpolished you look.
It's gonna be built upon how youshow up with love and leadership
that you bring into theireveryday lives.
(47:33):
And so if you're ready to alignyour story with your purpose,
then I'm gonna invite you totake our free integrity
challenge.
It's at our membership site,it's members.theawakenman.net.
You know, the journey to becomea man and a father starts when
we get into our work.
And so go ahead, hit that linkin the members.theawakenman.net.
Let's take that integritychallenge and let's get started
(47:55):
today.
Thank you so much, Todd, forbeing on the show.
Really appreciate it having youhere.
SPEAKER_02 (47:58):
Thanks for having me.
It was a great time.
SPEAKER_00 (48:10):
Thank you for listening to the Revolutionary
Man Podcast.
Are you ready to own yourdestiny?
To become more the man you'redestined to be?
Join the Brotherhood that is theAwakened Man at
theawakendman.net.
Start forging the new destinytoday.
One of the hardest roles a man will ever take on
isn't in the office.
It's not in the military.
It's not even playing it on theplaying field.
It's going to be in the livingroom.
It's the fatherhood.
It's parenting, and it's leadinga family.
And yet so many of us step intothis role without a playbook.
We want to be strong, steady,and present for our kids, but
reality is we start to lose ourtemper.
(00:22):
We feel exhausted and we jugglethe weight of career, marriage,
and expectations while quietlywondering, am I getting any of
this stuff right?
To add to the endless advice,there's books and blogs and
Instagram reels about gentleparenting, and suddenly the
pressure starts to mount,doesn't it?
But what if the answer isn'tabout being perfect?
(00:42):
What if the real gift we cangive our kids is not
performance, but our presence?
So now that's what we're goingto dig into today.
It's going to be a bit messy.
It's beautiful and it's atransformational journey, what
fatherhood's all about.
But before we dive in, I justwant to ask you one favor.
If you know a father or if youare one who's been wrestling
(01:02):
with the pressure of getting itright, then please hit that like
sub and subscribe button.
Let's share this episode.
These are the kinds ofconversations that are not just
for the two of us who are goingto have it today, but it's for
the next generation who's goingto go on and live with the
legacies that we're leavingbehind.
And so with that, let's get onwith today's episode.
SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
The average man today is sleepwalking through
life.
Many never reaching their truepotential, let alone never
crossing the finished line toliving a purposeful life.
Yet, the hunger still exists,albeit buried amidst its
cluttered mind, discreditedbeliefs and values that no
longer serve him.
It's time to align yourself forgreatness.
(01:47):
It's time to become arevolutionary man.
Stay strong, my brother.
SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
Welcome everyone to the Revolutionary Man Podcast.
I'm the founder of the AwakenMan movement and your host, Alan
DMonso.
Before we get started, I have acouple questions I'd like you to
consider.
What do your kids actually feelwhen you walk into the room?
Your calm presence or the hiddentension you carry from the day?
(02:14):
And are you leading your familyfrom grounded confidence or from
the pressure that you need toperform?
Truth is, kids don't needperfect parents.
They need present ones.
And presence is something thatevery one of us can choose, and
we can do that starting today.
And so in order for us to dothat and understand it, allow me
to introduce my guest.
Todd Sanner is a family coach,licensed therapist, and the
(02:36):
founder of the TransformativeParenting, where he has spent
over 20 years leading parents toshift from survival mode to
confident, connected leadership,not just at home, but in their
lives.
And so he started this careerworking directly with children,
but quickly realized that thegreatest breakthrough was going
to happen when he empowered theparents instead.
And so through his writing andcoaching and community work,
(02:58):
Todd challenges high-achievingparents to just slow down, let
go of perfectionism and stepinto a leadership role that
fosters resilience andconnection.
He's really passionate and he'sequipping fathers with and
mothers to raise emotionallystrong kids while breaking the
generational cycles that holdfamilies back.
And so welcome to the showtoday, Todd.
(03:19):
I'm so grateful you're heretoday.
SPEAKER_02 (03:22):
I'm excited to be here, Alan.
I so appreciate the work you'redoing.
That was a great intro.
I love your question.
What do your kids feel when youwalk in the room as a father?
I think we're going to have aproblem today.
And the problem is how do we dothis in less than five hours?
Because I can already tell we'regoing to have a great
conversation and reallyappreciate what you're doing and
(03:44):
having me here.
SPEAKER_01 (03:46):
Absolutely.
And we're going to do our bestto pack in a ton of value, as I
know we always do on this show.
So I have no fears with that.
And so, Todd, every one of us,every man has a turning point in
our lives, don't we?
And it's that moment when theold story just no longer works
for us.
And so, what was that turningpoint for you that shifted you
(04:06):
from working with kids directlyto equipping parents instead?
SPEAKER_02 (04:10):
Maybe some other moments will come up as we go
that were more big, shocking,revolutionary moments.
I think the one you're talkingabout was more a quiet one that
happened over a little bit oftime.
I went into psychotherapyoriginally because my parents
had a really messy divorce.
(04:31):
They didn't do it well.
And I went to therapy when I waslike 13.
My brother and sister and I allhad to go to therapy, court
ordered because the judge, Iguess I wasn't there, but the
judge felt like things were somessy and so antagonistic, and
that these kids must be in a badplace.
(04:53):
So he sent us, and I just lovedit.
I went to see Dr.
Marty, and he was just this kindbut strong presence, and he
listened, and I was like, ooh, Iwant to do that.
I want to be that.
And I didn't think about themasculine aspect of it at the
time.
I didn't think about it kind offather figure-wise at the time,
(05:15):
but I can look back and go, oh,I needed that steady presence.
I needed that holding of space.
And I think even though my dadwas struggling to be that for
different reasons, I it reallyinspired me.
And I've talked about that storybefore, but I haven't talked
about it from the kind ofmasculine holding space.
(05:36):
But Marty really did providethat.
I went back to him when I waslike 20, 19 or 20 for a few
sessions and really valued that.
He passed away a little bitlater.
Then with the same theme, I'mdone with graduate school.
I'm becoming a father myself.
And I have all sorts of trainingwith working with children and
(06:01):
foster and adoptive care, youngboys in group homes who were
just on the edge, the fringes ofthe system, and who might be
incarcerated because the reallydifficult situations in their
life.
And becoming a father myselfaround that time to a boy who's
(06:21):
now 22 years old.
And becoming mentored by my mainmentor, Dr.
Gordon Newfeld, fellow Canadianbrother of yours, who is a UBC
professor and things, and wrotethe book Hold On to Your Kids.
I started realizing, wait, I'mnot supposed to be the answer
for your children.
(06:42):
I'm supposed to be your helperin the background as a parent,
as a man, as a woman, as aparent, to help you be who your
child needs you to be.
It's not my job.
And I'm not saying therapy isnever useful for kids.
It was for me because, butmainly because my parents
weren't able to be there at thetime.
(07:04):
But in general, becoming a dadand being mentored by Dr.
Neufeld, who was saying you arethe answer for your kids.
It really changed.
And everything that I hadstudied for and trained for and
paid ungodly amounts of money toget to that certificate in my
hand, I went, oh no, I need towork with the parents.
(07:28):
And so these days it's half mypractice.
I'm doing parent coaching andI'm working with men and women.
Usually the woman is the one whocomes to me first.
The man comes in kicking andscreaming.
And then we bond and he gets myperspective and he becomes very
(07:50):
enthusiastic about the work.
Same kind of guys you're talkingto, Alan.
Achieving in life, doing verywell.
Mill Valley, California is whereI started, which is this very
affluent Marin County, rightabove San Francisco.
A lot of guys, founders of techcompanies in the city.
(08:11):
And then the other half of thework, and I'm sorry for this
very long answer to yourquestion, thought it would give
us a little foundation, ismarriage counseling.
And I only do marriagecounseling with couples who are
parents.
And so in both roles, I'm justtrying to help them be
essentially who their kids needthem to be and provide that
(08:34):
support and all sorts of thingswe could talk about with that.
But just as a side note, becauseI brought up the theme, Dr.
Newfell became like a fatherfigure, wise male presence in my
life and really helped out a lotin my journey.
Lots of other pieces to that.
But how's that for a start?
SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
Oh, that was outstanding.
Lots of stuff to unpack.
There I was making copious noteshere.
And I there's a few things thatyou brought up, and the idea of
men coming, kicking andscreaming.
I find that even to this daywith guys coming and checking
out men's work and doing it.
And we have we tend to havethese stories that we tell
ourselves.
And I thought a lot of it doescome from our childhood and how
(09:18):
and the things that we wentthrough.
And I know the word trauma tendsto be a this real catchword in
today's.
SPEAKER_02 (09:24):
It's thrown around a lot, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:25):
Around and when everybody has their dose.
But the challenge is that are weprepared to step into it and
actually do that, do the work,regardless of what the story is
behind it.
And I find that when we're braveenough as men, we can start to
do that.
And so I can remember youtalked, you used a phrase there
about holding space.
And so it's used a lot in inmen's circles and that.
(09:47):
So I just thought we should.
We haven't I haven't talkedabout holding space in a really
long time.
So I wanted to unpack that forthe listener today to understand
about what we actually mean bythat.
Because I think when you hearit, maybe the first one of the
first things you think of isthat that kind of doesn't sound
like very masculine, but it inactuality it is.
SPEAKER_02 (10:07):
Oh, it's about the most positive masculine thing
that exists.
Yeah.
Yeah, I guess let's have a backand forth about that because it
there is so much we could talkabout.
I'm influenced a lot in theseconversations by I was in a
men's group at a particularlytough time in my life when I was
(10:29):
trying as hard as I could tohold my family unit in intact
with my son's mother.
We were never married, but I wastrying to hold that together.
I there's nothing I wanted lessthan to live apart from my son
or to not be a family unit.
(10:51):
People don't get married or andI've heard some of your stories
too, Alan, but people don't getmarried and have kids thinking,
hey, let's do this separatelyand have half the holidays and
have other people in our kids'lives like acting as parents
with nobody does that.
So I was at a really desperatespot in my life where I was
(11:13):
like, I need to hold thistogether.
I have to do, I have to dowhatever I can.
And part of where that led me isI was reading a lot of David
Data, Robert Glover, all thethings that guys are reading in
men's group circles and things.
And I joined a men's group inSan Rafael, California, where I
was living at the time.
(11:33):
Jim Benson, amazing coach.
He has a good profile out there.
He'd be a great guest for yousometime.
He had a lot of experience intantric work.
He trained with David Data, hetrained with Robert Glover and
being with that group of guyswhere it was so critical to me
(11:53):
that nobody was sitting theregoing, women this and women
that, and these stupid it waslike guys being honest and being
vulnerable with each other andtrying to strive for being a
positive masculine presence andand be like, how can we be
(12:14):
better?
And that was so valuable to me.
But yeah, one of the things thatI read in data that I would read
and different things was aboutthis holding space.
And data is like talks about thepositive masculine and the
evolved masculine, and how allof us have masculine and
(12:34):
feminine aspects.
And I always find like I have tobe like, I sound like I'm being
politically correct or tryingreally hard to virtue signal
that I'm we all have, it's justtrue.
We all have masculine andfeminine, the yin and the yang.
And I just find in the a lot ofthe heterosexual couples that I
work with, the man is a littlebit more like wanting to
(12:56):
identify with the masculinepresence and the woman in that
in the home and the context ofbeing a wife and mother would
like to be more able to be inher feminine presence.
That's not always true, yeah,but in general, that's what I
find.
And people like tell me if I'mgetting too far afield.
I'm gonna try to bring thistogether.
People like Daniel Siegel, thepsychiatrist who I did some
(13:19):
training with, talked aboutmental health and emotional
health.
One of the simplest definitionsis that we balance the left
brain and the right brain.
We balance the intellectual andthe logical and the need for
structure and the right brain,which is more emotional,
spiritual, spatial, right?
And that we can be more left, wecan be more right, but knowing
(13:44):
both and being able to be inboth is where we're better
problem solvers, right?
Yes, we resonating, we'reresonating so far on this.
There are positive masculineaspects to me, which are being
able to be grounded in that moreleft-brain energy, but have a
knowledge and a knowing and aability to be with the right,
(14:08):
and providing a place where youcan be emotional, feminine
presence, but I'm not gonna jumpin the river with you.
I'm gonna stay on you're beingemotional right now.
That's okay.
There is value in the emotional,there is wisdom in the emotion.
There can be negative masculineand there can be negative
(14:29):
feminine where we're in angerand control, or we're in just
like unrelenting emotionality.
But me being able to sit hereand be what we call in
psychology and spirituality anaware observer, and I can just
hold space for what's happeningand I can watch the storm.
I can say no.
(14:50):
If something's crossing a line,we can get into boundaries.
Great, great topic.
But I can hear you and I canstrive to understand what's
going on underneath the storm.
I can try to understand what thetruth is, and I don't feel like
I have to jump into the rapids.
So I guess it's not a completeanswer at this point, Alan, but
(15:12):
that's where I start to go.
Is to me, what I love about yourmessage is not like, oh, you
have to do this because you haveto deal with that.
It's more like this is a hero'sjourney.
This is a call to adventure.
This, and you use that language,which I love, this is a call to
adventure for you, man, thatlistening to this podcast, to be
(15:34):
better, to be more whole, to bemore complete, to take those
parts of you that aren't all theway mature yet, that want to
react and want to get justice,like a teenager or whatever,
grow those parts up so that youare making choices and you have
free will over what you'redoing.
(15:54):
And in parent coaching and inthe marriage counseling, I find
myself in different ways tryingto elicit that and to support
that and encourage that.
And sometimes I can be a littlechallenging with guys about
that, but it's always from love.
It's come on, come on, you cando better than this.
(16:15):
And I hope there was an I hopethere was an answer in there.
SPEAKER_01 (16:18):
Yeah, you made a you said a statement there that I
hadn't heard before aboutholding space, and you talked
about being able to observe thestorm and not jump in it.
And I think that is such a greatmetaphor for what we mean about
this holding space.
And I've talked about in theintro about this idea of
presence.
When we have limited skills, andlet's face it, for many men
(16:40):
growing up, we have limitedskills.
We've stifled how we've to uhattach to our emotions, the
emotions we do attach to,generally speaking, are not the
healthiest for us.
At least we haven't learned howto use utilize them yet healthy
in a healthy way.
And so we either expressourselves in terms of dominance
(17:00):
and anger, or we suppress it andwe cower down and we do nothing
with it.
And that was more of the latter.
That was my history, really, ofjust emotion, emotions, and then
exploding.
SPEAKER_02 (17:13):
And then it was just that's one of the most that's
one of the most common patternsthat men have.
There's not a lot of patterns,and that's one of the main
patterns.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:23):
We could talk about fawning, the fawning instinct.
And a lot of guys I find thesedays, like most of the men I
work with mean and we can getinto this whole thing about
demonizing men and masculinityand things.
I I can find myself almost goingalong sometimes with oh gosh, us
guys sometimes, we just don'thave emotional intelligence.
(17:45):
But then, but it's usually saidfrom Brotherhood and all of us,
and we there are reasons.
But men are really being, Ithink, demonized in a lot of
ways or made fun of.
I to me, I lost a little bit ofmy thread there, but to me, a
lot of it is about free will.
Is do I have the ability to makechoices based on what I want to
(18:10):
do, or am I doing somethingbecause my dad did it or I was
programmed to do it or whatever?
And that bugs the heck out ofme.
That really, a professor in gradschool brought that up.
He was talking about free willand choice and how unconscious
drives one of my, I'm going offon such a tangent, one of my
most quoted psychological quotesof all time is from one of my
(18:33):
heroes, Carl Jung, who said,until you make what is
unconscious conscious, itdirects your life and you will
call it fate.
And that to me is like theessence of psychology or one of
the main essences.
But yeah, not jumping into theriver.
And I think one of the mainmyths of masculinity is that men
(18:56):
aren't emotional.
It's just not true.
It just manifests in the waysthat you just said, Alan, is I
stuff and I stuff because I'mavoiding conflict or the thread
I was saying before, and I losta little bit was I'm trying to
be a feminist informedpost-macho integrated guy who's
(19:20):
a good guy, and I'm equals withmy woman in, of course, because
that makes sense to me.
It doesn't make sense the allthe stuff that you know happened
before about men assertingdominance over women.
But in that, I'm losing theessence of my positive
masculinity.
Yes.
And sometimes I'm under I'mthinking I'm not being
(19:41):
emotional, but you are.
It's just coming up as anger.
Yeah.
And it's coming up as stuffingyour feelings because you're
afraid of conflict.
And there's something in themiddle of.
So I think that's one of themain themes that's surfacing
here, Alan, is this middle path,right?
That's right.
Is that there's a middle path,and that middle path is I can
(20:04):
say what I feel, I can say no tothings that are destructive, but
I can be loving in that.
I can be kind.
I can strive to empathize withyou.
And empathy doesn't mean I agreewith you.
SPEAKER_01 (20:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:18):
Like I don't need to agree with this huge wave of
emotion coming at me with thingsthat aren't factually accurate
all the time.
I can try to empathize withwhere is that coming from?
How are you feeling?
Yes.
So again, a whole bunch inthere, but I think that's the
work, right?
Is like how do we figure out howto be that middle path of
(20:39):
strength, but empathy.
And that goes to our partner,but that also goes to our kids.
SPEAKER_01 (20:45):
Sure.
And it's a it is really about,you're absolutely right.
It is about that middle path.
I was thinking, as you weresaying that, one of the books
that really propelled me as Iwas going through my journey and
starting to get into men's workwas David Wagner's book on
called Backbone.
unknown (21:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:01):
And he talks in that book about the red path and the
I think the red path and theblack path, right?
And it's just about more aboutthis middle road, this idea of
just being more centered andmore grounded.
That doesn't mean we'reemotionalists.
I also think there's lots ofmyths around what being stoic
really means.
It doesn't mean that we'recompletely emotional.
It means we have, for me,anyways, that we have can we
(21:24):
have control about it.
I recognize there's thingshappening in my body right now
that are elevating my sense ofreaction.
And if we can, the more tools wecan develop within ourselves,
then we have, to your pointearlier, free will to choose a
different path.
But if the only thing that wehave is a hammer, then
everything looks like that, likea nail.
SPEAKER_02 (21:45):
Looks like a nail, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:46):
And so it's developing that skill.
SPEAKER_02 (21:49):
And part of why I wanted to be here with you today
is not at the exclusion ofwomen, but I think most of that
work is meant to be done withmen.
Is I want to show up in myrelationship.
I'm engaged to somebody I'veknown since I was 14 years old.
We've been together a few years.
We're getting married inFebruary as we record this a few
(22:11):
months away.
I absolutely love her and I wantto show up and I want to be, I
want to be able to bring my trueself.
I want to be able to bevulnerable.
I want to be able to share myfeelings.
But a lot of the stuff that'srough, any stuff that's still in
there that is still in theunconscious, any of the stuff
where I notice myself gettingreactive or angry inside, she's
(22:37):
not my it's not her job to be mytherapist.
It's not her job to work thatout with me, really.
If you asked her, she'd probablygo, Yeah, of course.
I'd work out anything with him.
But it's not really her job.
And that takes me to anotherside note.
But I work with a lot of women.
They usually are the ones whocome to me first in couples
counseling and in parenting,like I said.
(22:59):
And I get a lot of my my in oneway or another, my husband is
being like a little boy.
And uh, how many times I'veheard the term when people ask
me how many kids I have, I sayfour, three bore children born
to me and my husband.
That can border on what I'mtalking about.
(23:21):
I don't believe in talking downabout men or because we have our
challenges and we have ourchallenges for reasons, okay?
And we live in a culture that'suh cultures that I know exists
in Canada as well, because Ihave a lot of friends up there
that boys don't cry, and yougotta be manly and you got it,
right?
And I think because of that, menare confused and they're in a
(23:45):
desert in some ways, and they'retrying to find their way out.
But yeah, I the main point ofthis answer was I think it's up
to us to have theseconversations, to listen to
these podcasts, to go and do ourown work.
If you can find a good men'sgroup or a good men's program,
like things that Alan's doingthat actually are like calling
(24:07):
you to your highest self and nothe men woman haters clubs,
little rascals.
I'm aging myself back in the waybefore my time, actually.
Not let's sit around and talkabout how women suck, like I
said before, but actually othermen who are gonna support you
and support your relationshipand your roles as a husband and
(24:28):
a father, and say, Come on, youcan do better.
We love you, but you can dobetter.
Come on.
And I think that's why theseconversations are so important.
SPEAKER_01 (24:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
We in in our group we call thatcompassionate accountability.
I love you, brother, and you'redropping the ball.
Yeah.
And and holding each other to ahigher standard.
Yeah.
This the last little bit of ourconversation, we've actually
been talking a lot aboutleading.
And as I said in the ormentioning in the intro, we tend
to be as men in our private, inour professional lives, we're
(24:59):
lead in leaders of some way,shape, or form.
And so we're leading.
So leading in work and in theboardroom, and or whether we're
through military work oranything like that outside of
the home, my point is.
But when we get home, leading isa little different.
And I'm starting to see more andmore of a shift with men really
starting to understand that weneed to be di uh different at
(25:23):
home, and then that differencecan actually carry forward into
the workplace and be muchdifferent leaders.
So let's talk a little bit aboutthis idea of leading for men and
how we can swift switch fromcontrol and dominance to more of
control and connection.
SPEAKER_02 (25:38):
Yeah, big topic, right?
Oh, we could go on for hoursabout that, and I've had so many
opportunities over the year, andI haven't taken most of them
where a CEO that I saw formarriage issues or for
parenting, I even have this likekind of sub-niche that I joke
(26:00):
about that I had a client oncewho was with a big Hollywood
agency who came to me forparenting, and then he had
breakup issues, and I talked himthrough that from the this kind
of perspective of positivemasculinity, and it went really
well.
And so he started referring meto other people, clients, and
(26:22):
other people in the community.
And so now I have this littlething where occasionally I have
one guy who's just going througha breakup thing and he needs
help with that, and he's ahigh-achieving guy.
But in all these differentroles, I have three different
branches in my brain.
At work, the relationship isdifferent, right?
Now we can talk about how itdoesn't need to be as different
(26:44):
as it is, but at work, we haveobjectives and we have goals and
we have things that we have toachieve.
And in America, there's allthese rules about the
obligations you have to thestockholders to have to do this.
And I work with guys that workat the biggest companies, and
they're not allowed to doanything that doesn't benefit
(27:06):
the shareholders.
If they had, if they wanted todo something because it was the
right thing to do, but it wouldlose a little money, they're not
supposed to do it.
So there's a differentenvironment where if you're my
employee, Alan, sorry to make meyou my employee here.
I want to be kind, I want to becaring, I want to be a good
model, masculine presence andcare about the people who work
(27:31):
for me.
But the context is different.
This is also a financialsituation, and we have to get
goals done.
And if you're not doing yourjob, that affects everyone else.
And so if I'm your boss, I haveto say, hey, Alan, I care about
you.
I care about what's going on.
If you're having a problem inyour personal life, that matters
to me.
(27:52):
But we also have to get the goaldone.
And this is what you're supposedto do, right?
Yeah.
Do you have what you need to dothat?
Yeah.
Okay, I need you to do it.
Yes.
But I can't talk to my wife thatway.
I can't talk to my and what Ijust said, Alan, is perfectly
fine and fair and nice.
Yeah.
That was that's a perfectly kindway to try to be.
(28:13):
I wish I had that boss.
Part of why I do what I do is Ican't stand having bosses.
Yes, I some pe sometimes I jokewith people.
Why are you a therapist?
Because I don't have to work foranybody, right?
Yes.
But what I just explained wasperfectly kind and fair.
Yes.
But I cannot talk to my wifethat way.
Because how is that going tomake her feel?
(28:34):
How I can't talk to my childrenthat way.
Because the context of my loverelationship is I love you.
I care about your feelings.
I don't get into a relationshipwith somebody to achieve
business goals that might haveexisted more in the past, where
okay, I'll marry you, but I getyour dowry and we get the farm
(28:56):
and we do right.
unknown (28:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (28:59):
We come together because we're supposed to
emotionally support each other,but we're also supposed to have
polarity and attraction in wherethere's these things that I need
to be cognizant of and workingwith, but it's not a business
agreement.
And I think that's where a lotof my guy clients they try, and
you know this, it was in yourquestion, but they try to solve
(29:20):
problems at home the way theysolve them at work.
And they try to talk to theirwives the way that they talk to
an employee.
Because I was trained in in myMBA program, or I was trained in
this thing I went to do for TonyRobbins' seminar to do this
thing, and I like Tony, he'sgreat.
But that's not working herebecause the experience of my
(29:42):
wife is you don't hear me, youdon't get me.
Yeah, you're applying that itlike one of my favorite things
to say of all time is what yousaid a minute ago.
You have a hammer and everythinglooks like a nail.
I'm not a nail.
I need you to be present rightnow with what's actually going
on and what I'm I'm actuallysaying.
And so that a guy has totransition from at work, you're
(30:06):
kicking ass, and you're goinghome and you're telling your
wife, I don't have theseproblems at work.
Yeah, because at work you're incharge and everybody has to do
what you say.
That's cheap.
So I I hope that's an answerthat we can work with maybe a
little if you have somefollow-ups.
But yeah, I find that, yeah,your wife's not a nail, your
kids aren't a nail, and you haveto have different kinds of
(30:29):
intelligence and different kindsof leadership.
There are all sorts of thingsyou can take from the ways
you've been able to achieve inlife that you can be informed
by, but they don't apply to loverelationships.
The core of a love relationshipis attachment, which is the
science that I work with.
SPEAKER_01 (30:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:50):
Do you get me?
Do you hear me?
Do you understand me?
An employee shouldn't expectthat's the highest order of our
relationship.
I will strive to do it, but it'snot the main context.
At home, that's it.
My kid might be having a totalmeltdown, but he doesn't need me
(31:13):
or she doesn't need me to yellat him or give him a structured
consequence thing that makes himfeel bad because I'm trying to
get an outcome, and that's whatwe're trying to do is get an
outcome.
They need me to say no to myshitty behavior, to my out of
control, I'm breaking stuff.
(31:34):
But they need me to get why I'mdoing it and where I'm at.
And that's an emotionalintelligence that takes work and
it takes patience and it takesyou working on your own stuff.
And that's not easy.
So the quickest thing I'm goingto do is I'm going to try to
apply something that I do atwork.
SPEAKER_01 (31:51):
Absolutely.
I think the idea here is whatwe're talking about is really
the context and what'shappening.
There may be nuances within askill set that you're developing
that can flow between the two,the two places, the two
environments, but the contextand the environment is so much
different.
There's there's a different kindof skin in the game when you're
(32:12):
working with subordinates versusworking with a partner and your
children.
And I think for me, lots ofreasons why I get out into men's
work, but I wasn't a great dad.
And that was one of the ones,you know, reasons I got into it.
And so I have such challengingrelationships to this day with
both of my sons.
And it's because I used thetactics and the skills at work.
(32:33):
I'm your father, you'll do as Itell you.
This is how things go.
That doesn't work very well.
And so we needed to learn, Ineeded to learn a different
skill set.
And then the skill set wasreally about understanding about
this presence, this idea ofbeing there and looking for more
for connection versus direction.
They're not always asking fordirection, they're just needing
(32:56):
to know that they're being seenand heard.
And I think for many of us asmen, if we recognize that, then
I think we will get some of theneeds that we're met.
I know there's a men's coach outthere, he talks about men
wanting to be respected.
How do we gain respect?
I think that's something that wegive in order to receive.
And if we're not doing that,then how do we expect to be
(33:18):
respected if everything that wedo is disrespectful to the
people that we sit that we say,we claim we care for and we love
them.
SPEAKER_02 (33:26):
And so it's one of the most misunderstood, and I
gotta tell you honestly, Ibelieve in respect, but the way
it comes out of fathers' mouthswith their wives and with their
kids, I almost always cringe andgo, oh no, stop it.
Okay.
(33:46):
Like with your kids, and you'resaying it, Alan, like you can't
demand respect.
One of the most positivemasculine presences in my life
growing up was not my dad, whounfortunately was just very
explosive and angry.
It was my uncle Dick.
And we did not agree onpolitics.
(34:08):
I'm sure he wasn't a perfectdad, but observing from afar, he
raised my two male cousins thatwere a little older than me.
He was a Marine.
He actually joined the U.S.
Marines because back in the dayit happened a lot.
He had a choice go to jail forsomething you did, theft or
something, and when he was 16,or go into the military, right?
(34:32):
And I know that happens inCanada.
I've heard stories.
And he signed up for the Marinesbefore he was legally able to.
He actually got a oh gosh, I'mforgetting right now, early in
the morning here, but uh one ofthe big one of the best, not a
purple heart, but he got one ofthe greatest medals you can get
for valor, and it got taken awaybecause they found out that he
(34:54):
enlisted when he was not 18.
Anyway, he just had this good,strong presence.
He didn't talk that much, but hewas wise and he was strong, and
he just had those eyes thatwent, I see you, I see what
you're doing.
But oh man, I respected thatman.
Yeah, I'm getting tears in myeyes.
(35:16):
He's been gone 10 years, and hewas a tough old guy, and he had
his marine tattoos, but he was akind, loving presence, and I
respect the hell out of thatman.
And he never told me I had torespect him, he just held that
space.
Yeah.
Your kids are almost alwaysacting out of instinct and
(35:39):
what's going on around them.
They are not, you know what I'lldo is I'm gonna totally
challenge my father's manhoodlater by not respecting his
author.
There's not a single kid whowakes up and thinks that.
As teenagers, there's a grayarea where sometimes some of
that might be going on.
But in general, that's not evenhow your teenager wants to see
(36:03):
you.
Okay.
Your teenager wants you to be agood leader.
They want to be able to followyou.
When you are healthily attachedto somebody, you want to follow
their lead.
You want to be like them.
And what I teach and myparenting stuff is not how to
assert that authority or forcethat over anybody, it's how to
earn that and how to keep thatconnection.
(36:25):
Because the truth is, I'veworked with kids that were
abused by their parents, thathad horrible surroundings, and
they still wanted to be withtheir parents.
They still wanted that's howstrong the attachment bond is,
right?
And so when my kid has thingsgoing on in him and around him,
(36:45):
and a lot of it has to do withme that makes him not listen to
me right now.
Yeah, that is not his fault thatI need to yell out of him or
consequence out of him.
It's my job as a leader first togo, okay, again, theme of the
show, Alan.
I might have to say no tosomething he's doing.
That's fine.
(37:05):
I might have to say that'sdestructive, that's not what we
do.
We don't talk to each other thatway, we don't kick the cat.
Okay.
I might have to say thosethings, but I'm also gonna say,
but I love you and what's goingon?
You seem really frustrated,you're mad at me, let's figure
it out.
Okay.
Now I'm not trying to be yourbest friend either.
You mentioned gentle parenting.
(37:28):
Yeah, and I try to live in aplace of non-judgment and as a
person, but also as a parent.
I know parents are so judged, Idon't want them to be feel
right, but boy, something getsme riled up sometimes.
And when it's I watch thispendulum for the last 20
something years, I've been doingthis go from everything's about
(37:50):
gentle parenting, don't setlimits, just be nice.
Yeah, right now I'm with you ifyou're trying to be kind to your
kid, but it it swings all theway over here, and then because
it doesn't work and kids aretalking back, and kids are not
like responding to that becauseyou're not being a leader, then
all the parenting becomes whatit is right now.
Fuck around and find outparenting, which is huge all
(38:13):
over social media.
I didn't even know about itbecause I don't pay attention
that much, but and theneverybody gets harsh, and then
relationships fray and things gobadly, and people get estranged,
and all this, and then they go,I'm gonna go be a gentle parent.
And it's no in the middle path,be a leader.
(38:33):
You're not your kid's bestfriend.
Your mantra is not, oh, how do Imake him happy?
I want my kid to be happy, butthat's not my job.
My job is to take care of mychild, right?
Yes.
Now he's an adult now, and it'snot the same role, but my job is
to take care of you.
(38:54):
And if that happens to make youhappy, and which I think over
time it does, then great, butthat's not my job.
My job is to take care of you,and giving you ice cream for
dinner would make you happy, butit wouldn't necessarily be
taking care of you.
You know what I mean?
So another long answer to yourquestion, but I'm gonna close
the blinds here for the tune ina little.
SPEAKER_01 (39:18):
Nah, no worries.
That was so powerful.
I completely agree witheverything you're saying there.
I think there this pendulum doestend to swing, and everything
out with our work for sure isabout being in the middle road
and having developing skillsthat you can pull more tools out
of the toolbox so we can bebetter leaders as husbands and
fathers and as business leaders.
(39:39):
So I'm just thinking right nowthat there was a father who's
probably listening to thisepisode.
Maybe he's the one who's feelingoverwhelmed and he's a bit
ashamed or afraid that now thathe's messing up, he's hearing us
talk about all this stuff.
What would be a message youwould give to him?
SPEAKER_02 (39:59):
Look at the parts of yourself where you're triggered.
Look at the parts of yourselfthat are might be in your blind
spots.
The things I referred to, CarlJung, until you make what is
unconscious conscious, itdirects your life and you call
it faith.
Fate, sorry.
It's everything we're talkingabout, Alan.
It's switch, and I'm trying notto say it a certain way, switch
(40:22):
from a victim mindset, switch,and victim is so loaded.
I'd rather say switch from thefeeling like you're at effect
and because switch, switch fromfeeling like you have no say in
what's going on around you tounderstanding that you have
(40:43):
enormous ability to changewhat's going on around you.
And it's by you looking at,look, I probably have a lot of
good things about me.
I don't want the message ever tobe you're broken.
You're that's not true.
The guys listening to you, Alan,probably have a lot of things
together in their life.
(41:04):
For them to even be listening tothis, and what I'm already
speaking to the converted or thepeople who are trying to be
converted, right?
But you have a role, and I wantyou to be inspired by that.
Your job is not to be a dictatorover your children, and your job
is not to be dominant machoasshole over your wife.
(41:27):
Your job is to be the leaderthat they need, and that's for
you, and that's for them, andthat's for the situation.
There are no losers if you putall of your effort into how can
I be a better leader?
How can I stop thinking youdon't respect me?
You're not doing my wife doesn'tdo something about it.
(41:49):
And I'm not saying it like thatcoach who's like on TV and
screaming at you that you're ahorrible guy.
I am saying it to you as anotherman, talking to another man who
have had tons of challenges andmade tons of mistakes and done
lots of things that I wish Iwould have done differently.
But I'm still saying there is noother choice.
(42:10):
The only choice is go on thathero's journey.
And Joseph Campbell, I was amixed-up teenager who didn't
think I could be a psychologist.
I wanted to be in psychology, Ididn't think I was smart enough
to do it.
I traveled.
And when I was traveling, goingto Europe a couple times, when I
was like 19, 20, I was readingJoseph Campbell and The Hero's
(42:34):
Journey and Tiknot Han, theBuddhist teacher.
And what I was getting fromJoseph Campbell is hey, this
story is universal.
It's in little villages inAfrica that have no connection
to Star Wars.
They haven't seen it, theyhaven't seen Lord of the Rings
or read it, but they're tellingthe same story.
SPEAKER_01 (42:53):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (42:54):
And so when we see that hero's journey, that's my
main message.
Okay, that's my main message isyou may feel like Frodo, you may
feel like little farmer Luke onTatooine or whatever, and that
who am I to do this?
You are exactly who needs to dothat.
Alan can't solve your family'sproblems.
(43:15):
I can't either.
And I joked with Alan before westarted recording.
That's actually my first name,Alan.
The Alan can't do it for you.
We are guides on your journeythat are walking alongside of
you saying, Come on, let's go.
You can do it, you can bebetter.
But the rewards of being on thepath, not being perfect, but
(43:38):
being on the path and strivingand trying are so outstanding.
They are so great to, even ifyou make mistakes, feel like,
but I gave it my all, and I amtrying to step up.
And the truth is that even if ittakes a little time, you're
gonna see the results andhappier children, happier
(43:59):
spouse, and things going betterbecause your wife doesn't need
you to be dominant over her, sheneeds you to respect her and
love her.
And it's not men are better andmen have to be the it's more
like she just needs you to be aleader who can handle your shit,
who can hold your emotions anddon't erupt in them.
(44:20):
And if she has some of them, youcan help her ride it out and get
through it, and that's what sheneeds because she probably
didn't get a good positive maskand role model, or she did get
some, and that's what she'sexpecting.
So, another really long answer,Alan.
SPEAKER_01 (44:37):
I hope there was a there was so much response in
there.
Todd, there's so much greatstuff sitting in that piece, and
what an outstanding way to wrapus up.
You're absolutely right.
Like we're almost an hour intothis episode.
We could go on for four more.
Yeah, we could say thank you somuch, my friend.
SPEAKER_02 (44:56):
Let's talk again sometime.
SPEAKER_01 (44:57):
We will.
This wisdom you shared was greatwith us.
It's really helping us canreconnect to what fatherhood
truly is about.
And it isn't about us beingflawless in our execution, it's
about being courageous in ourpresence.
And when we learn how to leadour families from empathy,
vision, and connection, I thinkwe're gonna see a vast
difference in our not just inour families, but in our
(45:18):
communities and in theeverywhere else around the
world.
And so I I think about whatwe're the next steps would be
the best way for men to get intouch with you, Todd, join in
some of the some of your work.
SPEAKER_02 (45:30):
Transformative parenting.com.
That not comfortable usuallytouting all the different things
we have.
I try to provide information andhelp for men no matter where
they are on their journey.
If you're in California, I docount couples counseling, but I
also have the parenting program,and you can find out about that.
It's a three-month coachingprogram.
(45:51):
I have a book coming out, and Idon't know if I told you that,
Alan, but it because it wasgoing to be next year.
But I have a book coming outcalled The Calm and Connected
Parent.
In the interest of authenticityand transparency, the book I'm
holding in my hand is completelyfake.
This is a mock-up, but it's doneand it's being read by some
(46:12):
people.
And I don't know, that was 20years of thinking I wanted to
say something, I wanted to saysomething, but I don't know what
I want to say.
The book is for all parents, butit's about becoming a calm,
connected, grounded parent.
I also have another one in methat I've been working on that's
gonna be just for fathers, butI'll tell you about that later.
But yeah, the website, theYouTube channel, Transformative
(46:34):
Parenting with Todd.
If there's something thatresonates with you, anybody
who's listening, if you justhave a question, send it to me.
Todd at transformativeparenting.com.
Go to the website.
I'm not gonna charge you.
Just if you have a question, askme the question.
I'm happy to connect with guys.
And part of why I wanted to behere is I'm a lot of times just
(46:55):
talking to parents in general.
And I just really feelpassionate about our roles as
dads and about us being thatpositive leader.
And I think there can be so muchgood if we embrace that and take
the challenge and take the callto adventure.
SPEAKER_01 (47:12):
Oh, my friend.
Aho.
As we close today's episode, Iwant to leave you with this one
challenge.
Are you striving to be theperfect dad or are you willing
to be a present one?
And so your legacy with yourchildren is going to be
inherited and built upon howpolished you look.
It's gonna be built upon how youshow up with love and leadership
that you bring into theireveryday lives.
(47:33):
And so if you're ready to alignyour story with your purpose,
then I'm gonna invite you totake our free integrity
challenge.
It's at our membership site,it's members.theawakenman.net.
You know, the journey to becomea man and a father starts when
we get into our work.
And so go ahead, hit that linkin the members.theawakenman.net.
Let's take that integritychallenge and let's get started
(47:55):
today.
Thank you so much, Todd, forbeing on the show.
Really appreciate it having youhere.
SPEAKER_02 (47:58):
Thanks for having me.
It was a great time.
SPEAKER_00 (48:10):
Thank you for listening to the Revolutionary
Man Podcast.
Are you ready to own yourdestiny?
To become more the man you'redestined to be?
Join the Brotherhood that is theAwakened Man at
theawakendman.net.
Start forging the new destinytoday.
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