October 5, 2025 • 30 mins
Let me know your thoughts on the show and what topic you would like me to discuss next.
Discover the secret to becoming a truly impactful leader in this episode of the Revolutionary Man Podcast, hosted by Alain Dumonceaux. Joined by Kevin Eikenberry, Chief Potential Officer of the Eikenberry Group, they explore the power of asking better questions, the importance of flexibility and intentionality in leadership, and how these skills translate into personal life as a father and husband. Gain insights on moving past habits, embracing uncertainty, and the mindset needed for effective leadership. Stay tuned for practical advice and a special offer to build your confidence and lead with clarity.
Key moments in this episode:
03:11 The Journey of Letting Go: Leading with Questions
14:47 Applying Leadership Lessons to Personal Life
17:29 Advice for Overwhelmed Men
19:50 The Importance of Perspective
21:13 The Dangers of Self-Stereotyping
25:28 Final Thoughts and Resources
How to reach Kevin:
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kevineikenberryfanpage/
- X: https://twitter.com/kevineikenberry
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/KevinEikenberryGroup
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevineikenberry/
- IG: http://instagram.com/kevineikenberry
- Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/user/w2ee6dv7qapscal92kmbae46a?si=jvSAv7YfQ92ypVtBvLgwTw
Thanks for listening to the Revolutionary Man Podcast. For more information about our programs, please use the links below to learn more about us. It could be the step that changes your life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
What if the secret to become truly impactful leader
isn't about all the answers, butit's about learning to ask
better questions, especially inuncertain times.
And when was the last time thatyou pause to reflect, not just
on how you've achieved, but onhow you're showing up as a
father, a husband, or even aleader?
And so if you've ever felt thatleadership was supposed to be
(00:22):
this clear-cut way, only to findyourself lost in complexity,
then I think you're going to bein the right place today.
This episode is going tochallenge and inspire you to
make sure that you hitsubscribe, rate the show, share
it with a friend, especially anyman that you're spending time
with that really needs to hearthis lesson so that he can lead
with more confidence andespecially with clarity.
(00:44):
And so with that, let's get onwith today's episode.
SPEAKER_00 (00:50):
The average man today is sleepwalking through
life.
Many never reaching their truepotential, let alone ever
crossing the finished line toliving a purposeful life.
Yet the hunger still exists,albeit buried amidst his
cluttered mind, his pattedbeliefs and values that no
longer serve him.
It's time to align yourself forgreatness.
(01:12):
It's time to become arevolutionary man.
Stay strong, my brother.
SPEAKER_02 (01:19):
Welcome back, everyone, to the Revolutionary
Man Podcast.
My name is Alan DeMonso, and I'mthe host of this podcast.
I'm so grateful for us to havethis conversation.
And before we came from backfrom our break, I asked a couple
of powerful questions for you toconsider about leadership,
especially when we consider thatthese uncertain times and the
things that are happening aroundus.
And it's important for us notonly to pause and reflect, but
(01:42):
also for us to understand thatthere are powerful questions
about leadership and theopportunity for us to step up.
And so imagine you standing inthis storm of change, unsure of
which way to move forward.
And so you've built the successby knowing, by doing, and by
driving hard.
But now I suggest the rules arestarting to change, aren't they?
(02:03):
And the leaders of today aren'tthose that are rigid in their
plans and how they show up, butthose who know how to bend, to
adapt, and to grow.
And so as we explore this, it'sgoing to take us the opportunity
to explore our strength withflexibility.
And so we're going to uncoverwhat that wisdom looks like
coming through some really deepintrospections and some
(02:25):
courageous reinvention.
And to help us do that, I'mjoined by Kevin Eikenberry.
He's the chief potential officerof the Eikenberry Group.
He's a best-selling author andone of the world's top leading
thinkers.
His new book, FlexibleLeadership: Navigating
Uncertainty to Lead withConfidence, is perhaps his most
powerful work yet.
Welcome to the show, Kevin.
(02:46):
How are things, my friend?
SPEAKER_01 (02:47):
Things are great.
Thank you for having me.
You've set this up well andyou've given people some really
good things to think about.
Hopefully, I can live up towhere you've started.
SPEAKER_02 (02:56):
I have no doubt that you're going to do a phenomenal
job for us today.
And as you know, here at theRevolutionary Man podcast, we
talk about all of us being onour own hero's journey or hero's
quest.
And so in yours, you mentioned amoment of this death and rebirth
that really involved of youhaving to let go of needing to
have all the answers as aleader.
And boy, I can really resonatewith that.
(03:17):
So can you take us back to thatmoment?
And what really changed for you?
SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
I don't know if I can tell you what the moment
was, but I can tell you thatthat recognition, that
understanding that, as you saidearlier, actually to lead with
questions more than lead withanswers.
We are brought up in school tohave the answers.
And there's an answer andthere's a right answer.
And if we get the right answer,we are rewarded for that.
Then we go into the workplace.
(03:43):
And if we want to succeed andmove on and be promoted, then
we're working hard to build ourexpertise, build our knowledge
so that we have the answers tothe questions that come before
us.
And then we get promoted becausewe were good at doing that work,
right?
And so when we become a leader,we're already predisposed to
(04:04):
feel like we're supposed to havethe answers.
And there's a heavy weight onour shoulders about having the
right answers.
And I'm not saying that as I amsaying as leaders that we need
to strive to be wise, but wisdomisn't just answers.
Wisdom is recognizing where wecan add value, when we need to
ask rather than answer, andthinking that all through.
(04:27):
And when I realized that thepath forward to being a more
effective leader, to being amore effective man, to being a
more effective human was to notwas to let go of the ego need to
have the answer all the time,but rather to help others find
answers or for us tocollectively find answers
together, things really startedto change for me.
SPEAKER_02 (04:50):
Yeah, that makes so much sense for what you're
saying there, Kevin.
Because in one of the things Iwrote down here, it says me
knowing when to add value.
And sometimes I think someknowing that value is for us to
be quiet.
SPEAKER_01 (05:03):
100%.
And as leaders, there's noquestion that whether you've
taken an assessment that saysthat you're more extroverted or
more introverted, doesn'tmatter.
Like it, this is a biggerchallenge if you're more
extroverted.
But for all of us, because weput on that leader hat, there
are it's I will almost assureyou that there are times you're
talking too much.
SPEAKER_02 (05:24):
Yeah, I completely agree.
I catch myself many times tryingto step into the conversation
and challenging myself just tojust wait out.
There's a little bit morecoming.
There's a piece of wisdom that Ineed to hear if I just pay
attention and just take abreath.
And I think it's so important intoday's environment because a
(05:44):
lot of people are looking forleaders to make decisions.
And ultimately it does fall tous as leaders to make decisions,
but we also have to recognizethat we need to be flexible.
And that's what you talk a lotabout in this in your latest
book, and that it's really anessential skill.
So, how do we begin cultivatingthis idea of flexibility as
leaders?
SPEAKER_01 (06:05):
The first thing is to recognize that if we're going
to be flexible, that means thatwe have to go against our
natural tendencies, our what wemight consider to be our style,
and all of our auto-responses orhabits.
So the challenge of saying I'mgoing to be flexible means, as
you said, in the open, that wehave to be willing to stop and
(06:27):
reflect at least for a moment,because otherwise we will just
do what comes naturally.
And again, as I said earlier,because we've had some level of
success earlier in our careers,we tend to think that's what
we're supposed to do.
That's the answer.
We're supposed to move forward.
And in a world of greateruncertainty and complexity,
sometimes waiting is better.
(06:48):
Sometimes we need to ask moreand talk less.
Sometimes we need to shut up.
Sometimes we need to speak up.
It just depends on what thecontext of the situation tells
us.
So to be flexible means that wecan honor our experience, but
not lean into it automatically,that we can recognize our
(07:09):
tendencies and yet notautomatically go with what we've
always done.
Because as we all know, we keepdoing what we've always done,
we'll keep getting what we'vealways gotten.
And in a world that's changing.
So let's just think about itthis way.
If we'll just go back fiveyears, which as it turns out is
about the time of a pandemic,but it wouldn't matter if
(07:30):
there'd have been a pandemic ornot.
If you're leading exactly theway you led five years ago, in a
world that's changing, in aworld of uncertainty and
complexity, is it likely thatyou're more effective now or
less?
I'll take the second bet that ina world that's changing, the
changes are not conspiring tocome closer to your natural
(07:51):
approach to leading.
And so while some things aboutleadership aren't changing, the
things that are changing, ourspecific approach to specific
situations, we have to be opento doing that.
If we're if we aren't, ourresults will should be shown.
SPEAKER_02 (08:07):
I completely agree with that statement.
I have a couple of thoughtsgoing through my mind.
I used to I had a mentor manyyears ago, and his favorite
phrase is he goes, if you're notgreen and growing, then you're
ripe and rotten, and you getstuck in this rigidity of how
you do things.
And while routine uh isimportant in terms of starting
growth and all that, havingflexibility within your routine
(08:29):
helps you get pushed throughplateaus, help you change and
grow and evolve.
And so I think that this idea ofbeing flexible, especially in
today's environment and learningnew skills.
And so if we're not constantlylearning, reading books, taking
seminars, doing things to helpimprove ourselves, and we are
falling behind.
It's like listening to thisinflation.
(08:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Now, listen, you've worked withleaders in fit at least 50
different countries now, and youmust have started to see some
patterns in men who really riseto this challenge in leadership.
And what, but what are thethings that you're also seeing
that's holding many of us back?
SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
I think one of the biggest things holding us back
is that we're leaning into ourhabits, right?
So we're not really willing toflex.
We like the idea of flexing, butwhen it comes down to it, if
most people will say, I'll saywhat they'll say, what's your
about your new book about?
I'll say it's about flexible,being a flexible leader, and
people say that's a really goodidea.
And yet most people aren't doingit for all the reasons that
we've already outlined.
(09:28):
And the first part of being moreeffective as a leader, I would
say in this idea of flexibleleadership, but regardless of
where you want to head withleadership, is that you have to
be more intentional.
Because if we don't becomeintentional about considering
where we're trying to go, thenwe'll just be on autopilot.
(09:52):
You used the word routineearlier, and routines are
important.
If we didn't have routines andhabits, we couldn't function as
humans.
We need habits, but what we needis the self-awareness to
determine which habits areserving us and which ones
aren't.
And ultimately, what I'msuggesting is that we need to
(10:12):
create a new one, which is toconsider the context of the
situation before we just beforewe take action, rather than just
taking action.
So here's the way I like tothink about it today, sometime
today or tomorrow, this willhappen to you.
Someone will come to you with aquestion, someone on your team,
a coworker, a member of yourteam, a member of your family,
(10:34):
someone will come to you wantingsome advice or a decision, and
you will either say to them orsay in your head, it depends.
Like what we should do nextdepends.
That's a key.
When we say or hear it depends,and then we stop and say, What
does it depend on?
(10:55):
We're giving ourselves theplatform in which to flex.
Once we consider what it dependson, we may still go with our
natural tendency.
There's nothing wrong with ournatural tendency when except
when it becomes the only thingwe do.
SPEAKER_02 (11:10):
That makes complete sense to me when taking that
opportunity to say it depends,because it truly does.
And I know far too many times inmy career I've been caught with
that.
Oh, I have an answer and I givethe answer.
And I have maybe 25% of thestory, or at least in the end,
also ultimately what comes outto be.
Other perspectives hadn't beentaken into consideration.
(11:30):
So as a young leader, and evenand doesn't young doesn't
necessarily mean in age, but inthe number of years that you've
actually been leading people,it's important for us to
understand perspective.
And saying it depends doesn'tmean that we're weak.
It means that we have anopportunity to hear and learn.
And you talked about wisdomearlier, and I think that's so
(11:51):
important that wisdom is anopportunity for us to learn from
experience, ours and others aswell, to help make better
decisions.
And so tech intentional livingor intentional reflection, I
think you've meant you name it,is really important to that.
And that seems to be a bigcatchphrase lately about being
intentional.
What do you really mean by bythat?
SPEAKER_01 (12:13):
It means stopping, right?
Yeah, and so two things.
First of all, intentionalreflection is directly related
to what you said earlier aboutbeing a continual learner.
One of the most powerful waysthat we can learn beyond what
listening to a podcast, taking acourse, reading a book, is to
(12:33):
gain from our experience.
And we don't learn fromexperience unless we reflect on
it.
And so that's critical to thisprocess, is that we have to
recognize that.
So now, what does intentionalwhat does intentionality mean?
What am I saying here?
What I'm saying is to recognizenumber one, that we can
(12:54):
understand that being flexibleis valuable, right?
If your mindset is such to saythat I can be consistent in my
values and mission and purposeand principles and still be
flexible in my approach, if wecan realize that I can be both
consistent and flexible, if Ican realize that sometimes I
(13:15):
need to say more and sometimes Ineed to shut up, if I can say
that sometimes I need to lean intoward positive feedback and
other times I need to lean intoward more toward corrective
feedback, not what I like, notwhat I'm comfortable with, not
what I normally do, but what thesituation or context suggests.
Once I realize and believe thatidea that we live in a both and
(13:38):
world, not an either or world.
Once I realize that, I am I'veset my mind to the place where I
can choose to be intentional tomove beyond my natural reaction.
See, that's it means pausingenough to consider rather than
(14:02):
just plowing forward.
SPEAKER_02 (14:04):
That makes a lot of sense to me because some of the
work that a lot of the work wedo is really based in
understanding what your purposeor mission is for your life.
And while the idea of what thatmission is, to have the
flexibility to get there allowsus that the opportunity to grow,
change, and evolve.
But if we're unlike a rocketship that's pointed in one
(14:25):
direction, we still need to bewise enough, much like an
airplane, it's off course moreoften than it's on course, but
ultimately makes it to itsdestination.
We need to also consider that.
And I think that's really whatyou're getting at the heart here
of how we perceive and moveforward as leaders.
And so now I want to talk about.
So that's in the business world.
(14:45):
How does this work in ourpersonal lives as husbands and
fathers?
How does this work for in theworld?
SPEAKER_01 (14:51):
The first I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
The first thing that I would sayis I wrote in a book a long time
ago, something along the linesof as we become a better leader,
we become a better human, andvice versa.
So I can think my children, myson today, as we're having this
conversation, turns 33, and mydaughter is 26.
(15:14):
And I can think of many times inthe past when they were younger,
when I reacted to something thatthey did rather than responding,
rather than stopping to thinkabout what information don't I
have or what assumptions am Imaking here.
Now, sometimes when we react, wehave our assumptions are
(15:35):
correct, and so sometimes itworks out okay.
But I'm sure all of you as ahusband, as a father, have had
conversations that you wish youcould take back, or you've made
decisions that you say, knowingwhat I know now, I would have
made a different decision then,or we'd have gone a different
direction then.
And so everything that we'retalking about, Alan, is
(15:59):
absolutely connected.
Whether we're talking about as aleader, I know it's a different
hat that we put on as a leaderthan as a dad, as a husband, as
a neighbor, as a son.
I realize that.
And yet so many of the lessonsare completely 100% transferable
one to the other.
And so if you find that you'rebetter at some of these things
(16:22):
as a human than you are as aleader, then you need to reflect
on that, and vice versa.
Like what again, as we become abetter leader, we can become a
better human.
So, as what are we learning inour leadership journey that we
can apply more effectively toour walk as a human and vice
versa?
SPEAKER_02 (16:41):
Yeah, I think there's so many synergies in
both those aspects of our lives.
And one of the things that, andI like how you're talking about
the human aspect of we arebecause truly we want to we want
to show up as humans in businessand in our personal life.
And sometimes for our for us, westruggle in having that
separation.
And we make, while it may be adifferent hat and a different
(17:02):
color, it still requires thesame types of skill set to be
developed.
And so I appreciate you sharingthat with us.
And I'm thinking of thepotential listeners that are
listening today, and there mightbe a man right now who's totally
overwhelmed, he's not sure whereto get started, his life's a bit
in shambles, and they're afraidbecause they don't want to make
the wrong move.
(17:22):
Maybe that's some history forthem.
What would you say to the manthat's listening right now
that's in that position?
SPEAKER_01 (17:28):
So when we're in a moment of uncertainty or
overwhelm, there's just a coupleof different things that we
might do.
We might just plow forward,right?
I gotta do something, so I'mgonna move.
We might go into ostrich mode,we'll try to ignore it, hope it
goes away, or we might getimmobilized by it.
(17:51):
So, like the two ends of thespectrum are we just plow
forward or we just don't doanything, we get stuck.
And so I think the mostimportant thing that we can do,
if we're truly in overwhelm, themost important thing we can do
is breathe.
Take a breath and then takeanother one, and then take
another one.
Because usually once we're inoverwhelm, at least in part,
(18:14):
we're catastrophizing.
And so if we will take a breath,it will start or breathe, it
will start to help us re-see adifferent perspective.
And so when we find ourselves inthose moments, one of the best
things we can do is start tolook at the situation from
different perspectives.
And if we're locked in on onethat either that gets us
(18:36):
immobilized, as you asked, asyou phrased the question, say,
okay, so if I look at it fromover here, what do I see?
If I look at it from over here,what do I see?
What would my best friend tellme?
What would my father tell me,living or dead?
What would my whomever, likesomeone else that I trust, what
would they see?
What do the others in thissituation see?
(18:57):
And how do they see itdifferently?
And how does that illuminate orpossibly illuminate my path
forward?
I'm not saying that you have toimmediately move, but I am
saying that you can't stay stuckforever either.
And I do think that so muchabout it comes down to
perspective.
Once we can take that deepbreath mentally to say, okay,
(19:22):
here's the situation I'm in, andmaybe I'm feeling guilt or shame
about that, and I understandthat.
Maybe you're having a hard timeforgiving yourself, I understand
that too.
And yet that's where you are.
How do you move beyond it?
And so you've got to get out ofyourself and start to look at it
from other perspectives.
And if you can do that, you'llstart to see a way forward.
SPEAKER_02 (19:44):
Absolutely.
I you're talking aboutperspective, and I'm thinking
about I did it, I took anemotional intelligence training
class years ago.
And part of the course, theprerequisite was to have a
360-degree review done, and itreincluded everything from peers
that you would work with, familymembers, maybe business
associates, all these differentaspects.
(20:04):
And they answered the thisquestionnaire.
And then at the training at theseminar, then you received your
little pamphlet.
And it was just blew my mind howmany, how the variety of
perspective that people had ofme.
I think of you, and I think howmany times do we think of
ourselves, I'm just Al or I'mjust Kevin.
(20:25):
But Kevin the dad versus Kevinthe coach versus Kevin the
podcaster, all we show up alittle differently in other
compared to other what otherpeople think of us.
And I think it's reallyimportant for us to have that
feedback to help us trulyunderstand, to help us grow and
evolve.
And so I like that we're talkingabout perspective because too
many times as men we get focusedon this mission-driven piece and
(20:49):
we forget, like we're greatthoroughbreds, but the problem
with the thoroughbred is thatblinder doesn't allow us to see
anything else.
SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
Here's the thing as humans, as men, but as humans,
we are multi-dimensional, we arenot flat, we are not a single
thing.
One of the things that keeps usfrom taking us back to
flexibility for a second, one ofthe things that keeps us from
being able to be flexible iswe've talked a lot about habit
(21:19):
and autoresponse, but there'sanother layer here, and that is
it's not just what our habit is,but how we've defined ourselves.
And if we whatever our identityis or how we've defined
ourselves ends up locking usinto a box, like we we can
easily talk about other peopleand say we shouldn't stereotype
or stereotyping is a bad thing,and yet when we have i we have
(21:41):
identified ourselves in acertain way, we have stereotyped
ourselves, and that's notserving us, like knowing our
tendencies, knowing ourstrengths is useful until we
define ourselves as that, andthen it becomes incredibly
limiting.
SPEAKER_02 (22:01):
Yeah, I you talked about personality tests, and no,
you do lots of work with diskand different, there's lots of
different personality tests outthere, and I think what I find
is that exact thing I learnedthat was my error in judgment
first doing these many yearsago, and start to find myself as
a as an INFT or what or whatevermy disk profile.
Well, wait a second, hang on,that's an aspect of something.
(22:25):
Is there things that I can learnabout myself?
100%.
And I encourage everybody to dois to do these types of programs
because you get an opportunityto get a glimmer of some of the
unconscious pieces, but don'tdefine yourself by four letters
or a color wheel or yeah,exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (22:42):
So organizations do something with good intentions,
yeah, which is whether they'reusing disk or Myers Briggs or
whatever they're using, and theneveryone used to be everyone
would put that on their cubiclewall, right?
Or they would put it in theiremail signature.
And the intention there isreally good that I get a little
bit of a sense of how I might beable, we're reinforcing these
(23:04):
ideas, and that's helpful.
But what it ends up doing islocking people in.
Yeah, no, oh yeah, that's that'sAl because that's oh yeah, he's
a he's an ABC, he's a green orwhatever.
And we take here's what we dowhat models do is they take
something incredibly complex andsimplify them so we can get our
arms around them, and that'svery useful.
(23:25):
But then what we do as humans uhand as organizations sometimes
is we take the simplified modeland then simplify it again
around four letters, a color, ananimal, or whatever.
And that is problematic becausenow it's identity, and now it
makes it way harder for us toget past that single-dimension
(23:47):
view of who we are and how wecommunicate, how we make
decisions, and how we yeah,exactly.
As it's you know, some of theseare called their insights, it's
an insight into that is givingyou one of the one of the fans,
one of the names of one ofthose, and they are insightful
and they're helpful untilthey're not.
SPEAKER_02 (24:05):
That's right.
No, and that's why I reallyappreciated us talking about
your latest book there with thisflexibility, because I think we
need that even more today.
Flexibility has always beenimportant as leadership, but
today I is even more profoundtransition.
We I talk a lot about being aservant leader.
It's maybe I'm consideringchanging that to be more of an
(24:26):
observational leader to give usthe opportunity to be flexible
and being even that.
SPEAKER_01 (24:32):
So let's just talk about that for a second.
Yes, we all want to put, we allwant to get it, give ourselves a
handle to put around that.
And the minute we say I'm aflexible, excuse me, I'm a
servant leader, I'm anobservation leader, I'm a
facilitative leader, I'm adirect leader.
Like the minute we do that, westart to box ourselves in.
We just have to be really I'mlike, I understand the
intention, trust me, Iunderstand the intention.
(24:53):
I'm I'm fortunate to know someof the people that created some
of the models that we're talkingabout.
I've been uh the hair color ofmy hair tells you that I've been
at this a while, and so all ofthese models, all of these
approaches have tremendouslygood intention.
But when we further simplifythem, yes, we make them we make
(25:16):
them a detriment, the anunintended detriment.
SPEAKER_02 (25:20):
Yes, completely agree.
Love that Kevin, through allyour career, yeah, I'm I'm sure
you've mentored thousands andupon thousands of people, and
there might have been a coupleof people, maybe even books,
characters, and individuals thatreally had an impact in your
life.
And so, what would you say wasthe best piece of advice or an a
really powerful piece of advicethat's still serving you today?
(25:43):
It's not about me.
SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
Leadership is not about us, it's not about I'll
sit, I'll sit in first person.
Leadership is not about me,leadership is about reaching
valuable outcomes with andthrough others.
Now, we've spent the last 25minutes talking about how we
show up, and how we show up andwhat we do as a leader does
matter, but it's not about us.
(26:08):
And so when we can keep that inmind, that we are leading to
reach a valuable outcome, andwe're and we're engaging others
to help us reach that outcomebecause we can't do it by
ourselves.
If we could have done it byourselves, we don't need
leadership, we just need to workhard.
That is not what leadership is,and so I'll just say that it's
(26:28):
not about us.
Remember that it's not about us,man.
SPEAKER_02 (26:33):
Love that.
Just love that for sure.
As we get ready to step out andwrap up today's conversation,
you've given just dropped agreat piece of wisdom for us to
really consider as we move on inour daily lives.
But what is there an offeropportunity for a tool or
mindset shift that you couldalso offer that helps us really
spark that transformation thatwe're looking for?
SPEAKER_01 (26:54):
I think it'll be an extension of what I just said.
And that is that beyond all thestuff that we've talked about in
this conversation, which I'veenjoyed a great deal, I would
say that here's the thing that Iwould challenge you with.
If it's not about us, then it isabout others, which means that
(27:15):
we need to work on becoming moreoutwardly focused, which allows
us to better understand context,which we have talked about
today, as well as betterunderstand, empathize with, be
observant of those that we lead.
And so when we become moreoutwardly focused or other
focused, we can do that when weremember it's not about us.
(27:39):
And when we do that, the chancesfor us, the odds of us leading
more effectively goes up.
SPEAKER_02 (27:46):
What a brilliant way for us to wrap up the
conversation.
Just want to say thank you onceagain, Kevin, for spending time
with us today, sharing your one,the wonderful wisdom on
leadership, growth, and reallyhaving us embrace this idea and
the power of flexibility.
And so if men are interested inparticipating in your work or
picking up your book, what's thebest way for them to get a hold
of you?
SPEAKER_01 (28:07):
Yeah, you can go to kevineikenberry.com/slash
flexible, where you can learnabout the book, actually get a
sample chapter of the book andthat sort of thing.
And of course, that will pointyou to all the places where you
probably would already go to buya book.
Uh, flexible leadership,navigate uncertainty, and lead
with confidence.
If you just want to beconnected, and
kevineikenberry.com is where youcan learn all about our work.
But I have something as a freegift for everyone who's been
(28:30):
here because something that wehaven't really talked about a
lot today, but is reallyimportant is confidence.
Building our confidence inourselves and in others.
That's an important role for usas leaders.
It's an important skill for usto build for ourselves.
And so I created a masterclassseveral years ago that we sell
every day for$79, but it'scompletely free because you've
been listening here.
And so you can get thatconfidence masterclass by going
(28:53):
to kevineichenbray.com slashgift.
And if you go there, you'll havethe chance to get that and hope
that you'll do exactly that.
SPEAKER_02 (29:02):
Outstanding.
Well, I'm going to make surethat is in today's show notes
and episodes if everybody canget a hold of you.
Once again, thank you so muchfor being on the show.
And gentlemen, as we wrap uptoday's episode, I want to leave
you with this one challenge.
And if you're really holding ontoo tightly to an outdated
version of leadership or you'rewilling to truly evolve, we have
an offer for you as well.
And that is the opportunity foryou to gain clarity and
(29:23):
confidence and adaptability.
So try our free integritychallenge.
Go to members.theawakenman.netand let's get started on your
journey today.
That's why you can become theman that you were created to be.
You can lead with intention,lead with integrity, and you can
get started right away.
Thank you once so much, Kevin,for being on the show.
I truly appreciate theconversation.
SPEAKER_01 (29:42):
It's my pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (29:54):
Thank you for listening to the Revolutionary
Man Podcast.
Are you ready to own?
your destiny to become more theman you are destined to be join
the brotherhood that is theawakened of man at
theawakendman.net and startforging a new destiny today
What if the secret to become truly impactful leader
isn't about all the answers, butit's about learning to ask
better questions, especially inuncertain times.
And when was the last time thatyou pause to reflect, not just
on how you've achieved, but onhow you're showing up as a
father, a husband, or even aleader?
And so if you've ever felt thatleadership was supposed to be
(00:22):
this clear-cut way, only to findyourself lost in complexity,
then I think you're going to bein the right place today.
This episode is going tochallenge and inspire you to
make sure that you hitsubscribe, rate the show, share
it with a friend, especially anyman that you're spending time
with that really needs to hearthis lesson so that he can lead
with more confidence andespecially with clarity.
(00:44):
And so with that, let's get onwith today's episode.
SPEAKER_00 (00:50):
The average man today is sleepwalking through
life.
Many never reaching their truepotential, let alone ever
crossing the finished line toliving a purposeful life.
Yet the hunger still exists,albeit buried amidst his
cluttered mind, his pattedbeliefs and values that no
longer serve him.
It's time to align yourself forgreatness.
(01:12):
It's time to become arevolutionary man.
Stay strong, my brother.
SPEAKER_02 (01:19):
Welcome back, everyone, to the Revolutionary
Man Podcast.
My name is Alan DeMonso, and I'mthe host of this podcast.
I'm so grateful for us to havethis conversation.
And before we came from backfrom our break, I asked a couple
of powerful questions for you toconsider about leadership,
especially when we consider thatthese uncertain times and the
things that are happening aroundus.
And it's important for us notonly to pause and reflect, but
(01:42):
also for us to understand thatthere are powerful questions
about leadership and theopportunity for us to step up.
And so imagine you standing inthis storm of change, unsure of
which way to move forward.
And so you've built the successby knowing, by doing, and by
driving hard.
But now I suggest the rules arestarting to change, aren't they?
(02:03):
And the leaders of today aren'tthose that are rigid in their
plans and how they show up, butthose who know how to bend, to
adapt, and to grow.
And so as we explore this, it'sgoing to take us the opportunity
to explore our strength withflexibility.
And so we're going to uncoverwhat that wisdom looks like
coming through some really deepintrospections and some
(02:25):
courageous reinvention.
And to help us do that, I'mjoined by Kevin Eikenberry.
He's the chief potential officerof the Eikenberry Group.
He's a best-selling author andone of the world's top leading
thinkers.
His new book, FlexibleLeadership: Navigating
Uncertainty to Lead withConfidence, is perhaps his most
powerful work yet.
Welcome to the show, Kevin.
(02:46):
How are things, my friend?
SPEAKER_01 (02:47):
Things are great.
Thank you for having me.
You've set this up well andyou've given people some really
good things to think about.
Hopefully, I can live up towhere you've started.
SPEAKER_02 (02:56):
I have no doubt that you're going to do a phenomenal
job for us today.
And as you know, here at theRevolutionary Man podcast, we
talk about all of us being onour own hero's journey or hero's
quest.
And so in yours, you mentioned amoment of this death and rebirth
that really involved of youhaving to let go of needing to
have all the answers as aleader.
And boy, I can really resonatewith that.
(03:17):
So can you take us back to thatmoment?
And what really changed for you?
SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
I don't know if I can tell you what the moment
was, but I can tell you thatthat recognition, that
understanding that, as you saidearlier, actually to lead with
questions more than lead withanswers.
We are brought up in school tohave the answers.
And there's an answer andthere's a right answer.
And if we get the right answer,we are rewarded for that.
Then we go into the workplace.
(03:43):
And if we want to succeed andmove on and be promoted, then
we're working hard to build ourexpertise, build our knowledge
so that we have the answers tothe questions that come before
us.
And then we get promoted becausewe were good at doing that work,
right?
And so when we become a leader,we're already predisposed to
(04:04):
feel like we're supposed to havethe answers.
And there's a heavy weight onour shoulders about having the
right answers.
And I'm not saying that as I amsaying as leaders that we need
to strive to be wise, but wisdomisn't just answers.
Wisdom is recognizing where wecan add value, when we need to
ask rather than answer, andthinking that all through.
(04:27):
And when I realized that thepath forward to being a more
effective leader, to being amore effective man, to being a
more effective human was to notwas to let go of the ego need to
have the answer all the time,but rather to help others find
answers or for us tocollectively find answers
together, things really startedto change for me.
SPEAKER_02 (04:50):
Yeah, that makes so much sense for what you're
saying there, Kevin.
Because in one of the things Iwrote down here, it says me
knowing when to add value.
And sometimes I think someknowing that value is for us to
be quiet.
SPEAKER_01 (05:03):
100%.
And as leaders, there's noquestion that whether you've
taken an assessment that saysthat you're more extroverted or
more introverted, doesn'tmatter.
Like it, this is a biggerchallenge if you're more
extroverted.
But for all of us, because weput on that leader hat, there
are it's I will almost assureyou that there are times you're
talking too much.
SPEAKER_02 (05:24):
Yeah, I completely agree.
I catch myself many times tryingto step into the conversation
and challenging myself just tojust wait out.
There's a little bit morecoming.
There's a piece of wisdom that Ineed to hear if I just pay
attention and just take abreath.
And I think it's so important intoday's environment because a
(05:44):
lot of people are looking forleaders to make decisions.
And ultimately it does fall tous as leaders to make decisions,
but we also have to recognizethat we need to be flexible.
And that's what you talk a lotabout in this in your latest
book, and that it's really anessential skill.
So, how do we begin cultivatingthis idea of flexibility as
leaders?
SPEAKER_01 (06:05):
The first thing is to recognize that if we're going
to be flexible, that means thatwe have to go against our
natural tendencies, our what wemight consider to be our style,
and all of our auto-responses orhabits.
So the challenge of saying I'mgoing to be flexible means, as
you said, in the open, that wehave to be willing to stop and
(06:27):
reflect at least for a moment,because otherwise we will just
do what comes naturally.
And again, as I said earlier,because we've had some level of
success earlier in our careers,we tend to think that's what
we're supposed to do.
That's the answer.
We're supposed to move forward.
And in a world of greateruncertainty and complexity,
sometimes waiting is better.
(06:48):
Sometimes we need to ask moreand talk less.
Sometimes we need to shut up.
Sometimes we need to speak up.
It just depends on what thecontext of the situation tells
us.
So to be flexible means that wecan honor our experience, but
not lean into it automatically,that we can recognize our
(07:09):
tendencies and yet notautomatically go with what we've
always done.
Because as we all know, we keepdoing what we've always done,
we'll keep getting what we'vealways gotten.
And in a world that's changing.
So let's just think about itthis way.
If we'll just go back fiveyears, which as it turns out is
about the time of a pandemic,but it wouldn't matter if
(07:30):
there'd have been a pandemic ornot.
If you're leading exactly theway you led five years ago, in a
world that's changing, in aworld of uncertainty and
complexity, is it likely thatyou're more effective now or
less?
I'll take the second bet that ina world that's changing, the
changes are not conspiring tocome closer to your natural
(07:51):
approach to leading.
And so while some things aboutleadership aren't changing, the
things that are changing, ourspecific approach to specific
situations, we have to be opento doing that.
If we're if we aren't, ourresults will should be shown.
SPEAKER_02 (08:07):
I completely agree with that statement.
I have a couple of thoughtsgoing through my mind.
I used to I had a mentor manyyears ago, and his favorite
phrase is he goes, if you're notgreen and growing, then you're
ripe and rotten, and you getstuck in this rigidity of how
you do things.
And while routine uh isimportant in terms of starting
growth and all that, havingflexibility within your routine
(08:29):
helps you get pushed throughplateaus, help you change and
grow and evolve.
And so I think that this idea ofbeing flexible, especially in
today's environment and learningnew skills.
And so if we're not constantlylearning, reading books, taking
seminars, doing things to helpimprove ourselves, and we are
falling behind.
It's like listening to thisinflation.
(08:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Now, listen, you've worked withleaders in fit at least 50
different countries now, and youmust have started to see some
patterns in men who really riseto this challenge in leadership.
And what, but what are thethings that you're also seeing
that's holding many of us back?
SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
I think one of the biggest things holding us back
is that we're leaning into ourhabits, right?
So we're not really willing toflex.
We like the idea of flexing, butwhen it comes down to it, if
most people will say, I'll saywhat they'll say, what's your
about your new book about?
I'll say it's about flexible,being a flexible leader, and
people say that's a really goodidea.
And yet most people aren't doingit for all the reasons that
we've already outlined.
(09:28):
And the first part of being moreeffective as a leader, I would
say in this idea of flexibleleadership, but regardless of
where you want to head withleadership, is that you have to
be more intentional.
Because if we don't becomeintentional about considering
where we're trying to go, thenwe'll just be on autopilot.
(09:52):
You used the word routineearlier, and routines are
important.
If we didn't have routines andhabits, we couldn't function as
humans.
We need habits, but what we needis the self-awareness to
determine which habits areserving us and which ones
aren't.
And ultimately, what I'msuggesting is that we need to
(10:12):
create a new one, which is toconsider the context of the
situation before we just beforewe take action, rather than just
taking action.
So here's the way I like tothink about it today, sometime
today or tomorrow, this willhappen to you.
Someone will come to you with aquestion, someone on your team,
a coworker, a member of yourteam, a member of your family,
(10:34):
someone will come to you wantingsome advice or a decision, and
you will either say to them orsay in your head, it depends.
Like what we should do nextdepends.
That's a key.
When we say or hear it depends,and then we stop and say, What
does it depend on?
(10:55):
We're giving ourselves theplatform in which to flex.
Once we consider what it dependson, we may still go with our
natural tendency.
There's nothing wrong with ournatural tendency when except
when it becomes the only thingwe do.
SPEAKER_02 (11:10):
That makes complete sense to me when taking that
opportunity to say it depends,because it truly does.
And I know far too many times inmy career I've been caught with
that.
Oh, I have an answer and I givethe answer.
And I have maybe 25% of thestory, or at least in the end,
also ultimately what comes outto be.
Other perspectives hadn't beentaken into consideration.
(11:30):
So as a young leader, and evenand doesn't young doesn't
necessarily mean in age, but inthe number of years that you've
actually been leading people,it's important for us to
understand perspective.
And saying it depends doesn'tmean that we're weak.
It means that we have anopportunity to hear and learn.
And you talked about wisdomearlier, and I think that's so
(11:51):
important that wisdom is anopportunity for us to learn from
experience, ours and others aswell, to help make better
decisions.
And so tech intentional livingor intentional reflection, I
think you've meant you name it,is really important to that.
And that seems to be a bigcatchphrase lately about being
intentional.
What do you really mean by bythat?
SPEAKER_01 (12:13):
It means stopping, right?
Yeah, and so two things.
First of all, intentionalreflection is directly related
to what you said earlier aboutbeing a continual learner.
One of the most powerful waysthat we can learn beyond what
listening to a podcast, taking acourse, reading a book, is to
(12:33):
gain from our experience.
And we don't learn fromexperience unless we reflect on
it.
And so that's critical to thisprocess, is that we have to
recognize that.
So now, what does intentionalwhat does intentionality mean?
What am I saying here?
What I'm saying is to recognizenumber one, that we can
(12:54):
understand that being flexibleis valuable, right?
If your mindset is such to saythat I can be consistent in my
values and mission and purposeand principles and still be
flexible in my approach, if wecan realize that I can be both
consistent and flexible, if Ican realize that sometimes I
(13:15):
need to say more and sometimes Ineed to shut up, if I can say
that sometimes I need to lean intoward positive feedback and
other times I need to lean intoward more toward corrective
feedback, not what I like, notwhat I'm comfortable with, not
what I normally do, but what thesituation or context suggests.
Once I realize and believe thatidea that we live in a both and
(13:38):
world, not an either or world.
Once I realize that, I am I'veset my mind to the place where I
can choose to be intentional tomove beyond my natural reaction.
See, that's it means pausingenough to consider rather than
(14:02):
just plowing forward.
SPEAKER_02 (14:04):
That makes a lot of sense to me because some of the
work that a lot of the work wedo is really based in
understanding what your purposeor mission is for your life.
And while the idea of what thatmission is, to have the
flexibility to get there allowsus that the opportunity to grow,
change, and evolve.
But if we're unlike a rocketship that's pointed in one
(14:25):
direction, we still need to bewise enough, much like an
airplane, it's off course moreoften than it's on course, but
ultimately makes it to itsdestination.
We need to also consider that.
And I think that's really whatyou're getting at the heart here
of how we perceive and moveforward as leaders.
And so now I want to talk about.
So that's in the business world.
(14:45):
How does this work in ourpersonal lives as husbands and
fathers?
How does this work for in theworld?
SPEAKER_01 (14:51):
The first I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
The first thing that I would sayis I wrote in a book a long time
ago, something along the linesof as we become a better leader,
we become a better human, andvice versa.
So I can think my children, myson today, as we're having this
conversation, turns 33, and mydaughter is 26.
(15:14):
And I can think of many times inthe past when they were younger,
when I reacted to something thatthey did rather than responding,
rather than stopping to thinkabout what information don't I
have or what assumptions am Imaking here.
Now, sometimes when we react, wehave our assumptions are
(15:35):
correct, and so sometimes itworks out okay.
But I'm sure all of you as ahusband, as a father, have had
conversations that you wish youcould take back, or you've made
decisions that you say, knowingwhat I know now, I would have
made a different decision then,or we'd have gone a different
direction then.
And so everything that we'retalking about, Alan, is
(15:59):
absolutely connected.
Whether we're talking about as aleader, I know it's a different
hat that we put on as a leaderthan as a dad, as a husband, as
a neighbor, as a son.
I realize that.
And yet so many of the lessonsare completely 100% transferable
one to the other.
And so if you find that you'rebetter at some of these things
(16:22):
as a human than you are as aleader, then you need to reflect
on that, and vice versa.
Like what again, as we become abetter leader, we can become a
better human.
So, as what are we learning inour leadership journey that we
can apply more effectively toour walk as a human and vice
versa?
SPEAKER_02 (16:41):
Yeah, I think there's so many synergies in
both those aspects of our lives.
And one of the things that, andI like how you're talking about
the human aspect of we arebecause truly we want to we want
to show up as humans in businessand in our personal life.
And sometimes for our for us, westruggle in having that
separation.
And we make, while it may be adifferent hat and a different
(17:02):
color, it still requires thesame types of skill set to be
developed.
And so I appreciate you sharingthat with us.
And I'm thinking of thepotential listeners that are
listening today, and there mightbe a man right now who's totally
overwhelmed, he's not sure whereto get started, his life's a bit
in shambles, and they're afraidbecause they don't want to make
the wrong move.
(17:22):
Maybe that's some history forthem.
What would you say to the manthat's listening right now
that's in that position?
SPEAKER_01 (17:28):
So when we're in a moment of uncertainty or
overwhelm, there's just a coupleof different things that we
might do.
We might just plow forward,right?
I gotta do something, so I'mgonna move.
We might go into ostrich mode,we'll try to ignore it, hope it
goes away, or we might getimmobilized by it.
(17:51):
So, like the two ends of thespectrum are we just plow
forward or we just don't doanything, we get stuck.
And so I think the mostimportant thing that we can do,
if we're truly in overwhelm, themost important thing we can do
is breathe.
Take a breath and then takeanother one, and then take
another one.
Because usually once we're inoverwhelm, at least in part,
(18:14):
we're catastrophizing.
And so if we will take a breath,it will start or breathe, it
will start to help us re-see adifferent perspective.
And so when we find ourselves inthose moments, one of the best
things we can do is start tolook at the situation from
different perspectives.
And if we're locked in on onethat either that gets us
(18:36):
immobilized, as you asked, asyou phrased the question, say,
okay, so if I look at it fromover here, what do I see?
If I look at it from over here,what do I see?
What would my best friend tellme?
What would my father tell me,living or dead?
What would my whomever, likesomeone else that I trust, what
would they see?
What do the others in thissituation see?
(18:57):
And how do they see itdifferently?
And how does that illuminate orpossibly illuminate my path
forward?
I'm not saying that you have toimmediately move, but I am
saying that you can't stay stuckforever either.
And I do think that so muchabout it comes down to
perspective.
Once we can take that deepbreath mentally to say, okay,
(19:22):
here's the situation I'm in, andmaybe I'm feeling guilt or shame
about that, and I understandthat.
Maybe you're having a hard timeforgiving yourself, I understand
that too.
And yet that's where you are.
How do you move beyond it?
And so you've got to get out ofyourself and start to look at it
from other perspectives.
And if you can do that, you'llstart to see a way forward.
SPEAKER_02 (19:44):
Absolutely.
I you're talking aboutperspective, and I'm thinking
about I did it, I took anemotional intelligence training
class years ago.
And part of the course, theprerequisite was to have a
360-degree review done, and itreincluded everything from peers
that you would work with, familymembers, maybe business
associates, all these differentaspects.
(20:04):
And they answered the thisquestionnaire.
And then at the training at theseminar, then you received your
little pamphlet.
And it was just blew my mind howmany, how the variety of
perspective that people had ofme.
I think of you, and I think howmany times do we think of
ourselves, I'm just Al or I'mjust Kevin.
(20:25):
But Kevin the dad versus Kevinthe coach versus Kevin the
podcaster, all we show up alittle differently in other
compared to other what otherpeople think of us.
And I think it's reallyimportant for us to have that
feedback to help us trulyunderstand, to help us grow and
evolve.
And so I like that we're talkingabout perspective because too
many times as men we get focusedon this mission-driven piece and
(20:49):
we forget, like we're greatthoroughbreds, but the problem
with the thoroughbred is thatblinder doesn't allow us to see
anything else.
SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
Here's the thing as humans, as men, but as humans,
we are multi-dimensional, we arenot flat, we are not a single
thing.
One of the things that keeps usfrom taking us back to
flexibility for a second, one ofthe things that keeps us from
being able to be flexible iswe've talked a lot about habit
(21:19):
and autoresponse, but there'sanother layer here, and that is
it's not just what our habit is,but how we've defined ourselves.
And if we whatever our identityis or how we've defined
ourselves ends up locking usinto a box, like we we can
easily talk about other peopleand say we shouldn't stereotype
or stereotyping is a bad thing,and yet when we have i we have
(21:41):
identified ourselves in acertain way, we have stereotyped
ourselves, and that's notserving us, like knowing our
tendencies, knowing ourstrengths is useful until we
define ourselves as that, andthen it becomes incredibly
limiting.
SPEAKER_02 (22:01):
Yeah, I you talked about personality tests, and no,
you do lots of work with diskand different, there's lots of
different personality tests outthere, and I think what I find
is that exact thing I learnedthat was my error in judgment
first doing these many yearsago, and start to find myself as
a as an INFT or what or whatevermy disk profile.
Well, wait a second, hang on,that's an aspect of something.
(22:25):
Is there things that I can learnabout myself?
100%.
And I encourage everybody to dois to do these types of programs
because you get an opportunityto get a glimmer of some of the
unconscious pieces, but don'tdefine yourself by four letters
or a color wheel or yeah,exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (22:42):
So organizations do something with good intentions,
yeah, which is whether they'reusing disk or Myers Briggs or
whatever they're using, and theneveryone used to be everyone
would put that on their cubiclewall, right?
Or they would put it in theiremail signature.
And the intention there isreally good that I get a little
bit of a sense of how I might beable, we're reinforcing these
(23:04):
ideas, and that's helpful.
But what it ends up doing islocking people in.
Yeah, no, oh yeah, that's that'sAl because that's oh yeah, he's
a he's an ABC, he's a green orwhatever.
And we take here's what we dowhat models do is they take
something incredibly complex andsimplify them so we can get our
arms around them, and that'svery useful.
(23:25):
But then what we do as humans uhand as organizations sometimes
is we take the simplified modeland then simplify it again
around four letters, a color, ananimal, or whatever.
And that is problematic becausenow it's identity, and now it
makes it way harder for us toget past that single-dimension
(23:47):
view of who we are and how wecommunicate, how we make
decisions, and how we yeah,exactly.
As it's you know, some of theseare called their insights, it's
an insight into that is givingyou one of the one of the fans,
one of the names of one ofthose, and they are insightful
and they're helpful untilthey're not.
SPEAKER_02 (24:05):
That's right.
No, and that's why I reallyappreciated us talking about
your latest book there with thisflexibility, because I think we
need that even more today.
Flexibility has always beenimportant as leadership, but
today I is even more profoundtransition.
We I talk a lot about being aservant leader.
It's maybe I'm consideringchanging that to be more of an
(24:26):
observational leader to give usthe opportunity to be flexible
and being even that.
SPEAKER_01 (24:32):
So let's just talk about that for a second.
Yes, we all want to put, we allwant to get it, give ourselves a
handle to put around that.
And the minute we say I'm aflexible, excuse me, I'm a
servant leader, I'm anobservation leader, I'm a
facilitative leader, I'm adirect leader.
Like the minute we do that, westart to box ourselves in.
We just have to be really I'mlike, I understand the
intention, trust me, Iunderstand the intention.
(24:53):
I'm I'm fortunate to know someof the people that created some
of the models that we're talkingabout.
I've been uh the hair color ofmy hair tells you that I've been
at this a while, and so all ofthese models, all of these
approaches have tremendouslygood intention.
But when we further simplifythem, yes, we make them we make
(25:16):
them a detriment, the anunintended detriment.
SPEAKER_02 (25:20):
Yes, completely agree.
Love that Kevin, through allyour career, yeah, I'm I'm sure
you've mentored thousands andupon thousands of people, and
there might have been a coupleof people, maybe even books,
characters, and individuals thatreally had an impact in your
life.
And so, what would you say wasthe best piece of advice or an a
really powerful piece of advicethat's still serving you today?
(25:43):
It's not about me.
SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
Leadership is not about us, it's not about I'll
sit, I'll sit in first person.
Leadership is not about me,leadership is about reaching
valuable outcomes with andthrough others.
Now, we've spent the last 25minutes talking about how we
show up, and how we show up andwhat we do as a leader does
matter, but it's not about us.
(26:08):
And so when we can keep that inmind, that we are leading to
reach a valuable outcome, andwe're and we're engaging others
to help us reach that outcomebecause we can't do it by
ourselves.
If we could have done it byourselves, we don't need
leadership, we just need to workhard.
That is not what leadership is,and so I'll just say that it's
(26:28):
not about us.
Remember that it's not about us,man.
SPEAKER_02 (26:33):
Love that.
Just love that for sure.
As we get ready to step out andwrap up today's conversation,
you've given just dropped agreat piece of wisdom for us to
really consider as we move on inour daily lives.
But what is there an offeropportunity for a tool or
mindset shift that you couldalso offer that helps us really
spark that transformation thatwe're looking for?
SPEAKER_01 (26:54):
I think it'll be an extension of what I just said.
And that is that beyond all thestuff that we've talked about in
this conversation, which I'veenjoyed a great deal, I would
say that here's the thing that Iwould challenge you with.
If it's not about us, then it isabout others, which means that
(27:15):
we need to work on becoming moreoutwardly focused, which allows
us to better understand context,which we have talked about
today, as well as betterunderstand, empathize with, be
observant of those that we lead.
And so when we become moreoutwardly focused or other
focused, we can do that when weremember it's not about us.
(27:39):
And when we do that, the chancesfor us, the odds of us leading
more effectively goes up.
SPEAKER_02 (27:46):
What a brilliant way for us to wrap up the
conversation.
Just want to say thank you onceagain, Kevin, for spending time
with us today, sharing your one,the wonderful wisdom on
leadership, growth, and reallyhaving us embrace this idea and
the power of flexibility.
And so if men are interested inparticipating in your work or
picking up your book, what's thebest way for them to get a hold
of you?
SPEAKER_01 (28:07):
Yeah, you can go to kevineikenberry.com/slash
flexible, where you can learnabout the book, actually get a
sample chapter of the book andthat sort of thing.
And of course, that will pointyou to all the places where you
probably would already go to buya book.
Uh, flexible leadership,navigate uncertainty, and lead
with confidence.
If you just want to beconnected, and
kevineikenberry.com is where youcan learn all about our work.
But I have something as a freegift for everyone who's been
(28:30):
here because something that wehaven't really talked about a
lot today, but is reallyimportant is confidence.
Building our confidence inourselves and in others.
That's an important role for usas leaders.
It's an important skill for usto build for ourselves.
And so I created a masterclassseveral years ago that we sell
every day for$79, but it'scompletely free because you've
been listening here.
And so you can get thatconfidence masterclass by going
(28:53):
to kevineichenbray.com slashgift.
And if you go there, you'll havethe chance to get that and hope
that you'll do exactly that.
SPEAKER_02 (29:02):
Outstanding.
Well, I'm going to make surethat is in today's show notes
and episodes if everybody canget a hold of you.
Once again, thank you so muchfor being on the show.
And gentlemen, as we wrap uptoday's episode, I want to leave
you with this one challenge.
And if you're really holding ontoo tightly to an outdated
version of leadership or you'rewilling to truly evolve, we have
an offer for you as well.
And that is the opportunity foryou to gain clarity and
(29:23):
confidence and adaptability.
So try our free integritychallenge.
Go to members.theawakenman.netand let's get started on your
journey today.
That's why you can become theman that you were created to be.
You can lead with intention,lead with integrity, and you can
get started right away.
Thank you once so much, Kevin,for being on the show.
I truly appreciate theconversation.
SPEAKER_01 (29:42):
It's my pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (29:54):
Thank you for listening to the Revolutionary
Man Podcast.
Are you ready to own?
your destiny to become more theman you are destined to be join
the brotherhood that is theawakened of man at
theawakendman.net and startforging a new destiny today
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