Ben Gallaher: From Prison Tours to Viral Sensation - A Country Rock Journey :: Ep 229 The Rich Redmond Show - The Rich Redmond Show

Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:00):
I mean, I blew my headphones off. I was playing
just raw what I could hear, youknow, I haven't played raw
cymbal volume in years.
Oh, it's, it's a drum set islike a jet airliner taking off,
you know. I mean, it's like ajet airlines. 100 is like 120
decibels. And the average drumset could be somewhere between,
you know, 85 to 120 the way Iplayed is around 120

(00:24):
thankfully, the singer Roger theHuey, yeah, I think the same
thing happened to him. Hecouldn't hear either, so we're
just looking at each other. He'slike, Yeah, I got nothing
either. I'm like, okay, the showhas to go on. I said,
I gotta go on. I had to play ithim in those moments. But it's
not, you know, it's not as not apool you want to swim in. That's

(00:44):
right,
yeah, dead battery. Deadbattery.
That's what it was
in the little box that I pluggedinto,
yeah, man. And I didn't evennotice a gym. Of course, I was
talking to a million people notreally Paying
attention. But this is the
rich Redmond show you.

(01:30):
Every now and then, aroundmidnight,
the more river I ask you tofeeling right. I
pull a jug and a flat top outthat back
porch fit To

(01:59):
get loud. Like

(02:22):
today, that dirt deer on yourboots.
Can't hear already better, gethere
fast, drop a lead food on thatgas stolen Well, He's gone
tomorrow already. Already

(02:44):
can make you wanna stop.

(03:14):
Out little hometown dirt stone,like a bag of church stone wanna
cover head On tomorrow, storm,

(03:41):
a stone.

(04:02):
Nice, so much for gettinglevels.
We might do two versions of it,but that was
pretty cool. It felt so good.Man, I couldn't stop
that. Was just so easy. Man, youhave like a just a feel of all
fields.
Man, you kidding me to play thatsong with you? So cool. Man,
that's bad.

(04:22):
Great job, man. I think I'veknown some of your live
drummers. Ethan Harris, yeah,
I was, oh, man, yeah. He playedfor me for a bit,
man. Ethan's viral.
So Ethan's the guy that had the,
he's how to get fired from agig. He
had the bunk, yeah, the bonksound. What's the bonk sound?
He's
basically at, yeah, down in he'srecording down on Broadway, and

(04:46):
he's got like, an SPDs next tohim, yeah, with samples on it.
So yeah. And it's like, whatsong are they playing?
I forget, but he put the bonk inthe weirdest of places, and it
just rubbed everybody. It justtickled everybody. And
they also. On a diet, yeah? Andit became a thing, and now he's
got a huge following,
yeah? See that? I texted him notlonger. I was like, dude,

(05:07):
congratulations. Yeah. I waslike, his stuff has totally
blown up. So I
remember he we, he goes, Hey,man, can I ask you some
questions? A couple years ago,we went to go get some sushi in
the middle of the day, and Isaid, do this. Don't do that.
Try this. Blah, blah, blah,throw this thing against the
wall. Always prepare. Show up.He's doing great, doing great,

(05:28):
you know, yeah, it's
crazy. All my drummers that I'vehad have, you know, done stuff
with you, and have been taughtby all kinds, you name them.
Man. Anthony Pendle, he drummedfor me for a while. Yeah, oh my
god, yeah. He's up inPennsylvania now, and his dad
was a detective, and he wantedto go in that line of work and

(05:50):
get off the road. So I stillknow that. So talk to him all
the time. Great, dude. Yeah. Butyeah, is he playing still? No. I
mean, he plays around, I thinkjust at home, but he's totally
switched. Got off the road, yougot it? Got it out? Yeah, he
did. And he's, he's a detectiveup up north in Pennsylvania, a
detective, yeah, so he had toput his time in. I mean, that

(06:12):
doesn't happen, no, huh? Heworked as he worked his way up.
So did you know him when youlived there?
Yeah, and then he moved down,played with me for quite some
time.
Yeah, I did not know that.That's super cool. So Anthony
Ethan, and then do you have anice stable of guys now that
you've had
for a while? Man, so right now,actually, I'm three piecing it
lately, which is really cool.And so bass, drums and me on

(06:37):
electricity, like a power trio,no, yeah. And so, like, the
rush of country music, man,
you're like, you know, BettyLee,
ZZ Top, I'll just myself out.Yeah, you like the police, yes,
for sure, my bass player hasbeen with me for like, over 10
years. That's great. And I'vehad a couple great drummers, and

(06:58):
I kind of have a bank. Here'sthe thing too. Is like, when I
would go in between deals orwhatever, you know, it's, it's
difficult to you, it's difficultto keep a steady, the same guys,
when you don't have a counterfull of dates at the time, I
know, you know, yeah. So I kindof have a bank of guys that I
love, and I'll see, you know,people hopping around different,
you know, yeah.
So why do you why would you wantto not have a full band in that

(07:22):
scenario? Is it just financial?Is it, well, I deficiency.
Typically I'm a four piece. Ialways was a four piece, and
then it must have been like afly date or something that I was
like, I think I want, we need. Ihad to cut down on some costs
just a couple years ago, and Idid a three piece and was kind
of, you know, I was a littleintimidated by that, because,

(07:44):
you know, the guitar player, yougotta cover a lot of ground, big
time, yeah, and
Anson, but you got it. You'vegot the chops, you have the
time, you got the feel, you gotthe technique, you got the
musicianship.
Hey, if Eddie can do it, yeah,
well, thank you. But the thingof it is, was I was mind blown
after I did that first gig, orfirst show, I was like, I love

(08:04):
the space.
What? How long ago was this?
Maybe, like, four years ago,probably did the first three
piece, and it hadn't been threepiece this whole since then. You
know, I'll do it here and there.But I love the space that it,
that it creates, because it'snot just notes and music and
just a wall of sound. It letsthe music breathe and to play

(08:26):
the right spot, to serve thesong, play the right part in the
right place, and free some stuffup, and not being afraid of some
space, and letting the musiclike kind of that's a little
heady. But, you know, I'msaying,
You Speak for yourself. I mean,here we are in the songwriting
capital of the world. You gotgreat music, you got great
songs, great melodies. You're agreat singer, you're a great

(08:50):
player. So, I mean, yeah, lookat, look at the amount of noise
that rush made, the amount ofnoise that the police made three
guys. So you get these reallywell written songs
in rush, I think was JohnnyRabb, who said that he thought
all of them upon listening tothe record. He didn't realize
that Neil was the only one doingthe percussion. That's what

(09:11):
Johnny Rab said. He says, Ithought it was all the guys
actually overdubbing and doingall the percussion. He's like, I
had no idea it was just him. Andthen you have Getty, that
handled synth on the feet, synthon the hands base and vocal
duties, that's a heavy thing. Sothat's, you know, you still got
a ways to
go. Me, man, three guys on theroad, and you do any and you
could, you do save some money,and if you got to jump in the

(09:33):
van, you got to jump in a van,sure, you got to be like that
forever, you know, yeah, youknow. I mean, I don't want to
be, I don't think I want to be athree piece forever, because
there's times where I miss thatother guy. And big venues, like,
if we're playing, like, big, bigshows that I'm gonna have my
other guy, my other rhythm guy,I'd
like, I'd like to see a threepiece, though. You know, you
fronting this to three. Thatwould be interesting. Yeah, let

(09:55):
us know you don't see that. Let
us know where we can see a show.Man,
I know it. I know it. I think ifyou're gonna be. On all
month. Bengaliher.com,
probably right, yeah. So that,Gallagher, no, you don't know
watermelons, yeah, I left him ina truck.
It's $1,000 fine if you say hisname wrong or put
that in the rider. No, you doput the pronunciation in there,

(10:15):
and then you remind him beforethe radio guy walks on and he
says, Ladies and Gentlemen, Ben
Gallagher, it's like, Come on,man, we just talked about it.
I know. So radio people are notvery small
Jim, that is who we're talkingto 14 years in Nashville,
hailing from Camp Hill,Pennsylvania. It's an area of
the state he calls pencil,Kentucky. Pencil, pencil tucky.

(10:37):
Man, a lot of Pennsylvania, I'llcall pencil tucky. Yeah,
because,
I mean, you're you and I arefrom the like, I'm familiar with
that area, Lancaster. Oh, yeah,it's not Lancaster, it's
Lancaster. That's right, andyou're right, Jim, is it Amish
or
Amish? I say Amish, but it isAmish. Yeah. So,
yeah, they make great snacks.They really they make great

(10:59):
furniture. Pies, oh, peanutbutter pretzels. Did you ever
hear
the restaurant called the goodand plenty? Oh, yeah, remember
that that's not around anymore.No, it's because we used to eat
there when
I was a kid. Maybe you couldstart one. It's a long time ago.
Jim, I don't I
don't need any more businessesto start. I'm good with ones I
have. Yes, so,
man, thank y'all for having me.Thank you so huge honor for me

(11:21):
to be sitting here with you.Kidding me, man,
you know what I got to Ilistened. We really appreciate
it.
You're a singer, you're asongwriter, you're a guitarist,
you're a recording artist,you're a viral social media
phenom. 35 million views onYouTube, Instagram and Tiktok of
you playing that opening riff.You're keeping, you're keeping

(11:47):
the chicken pick and thingalive, man, you know, and you're
bringing it to a whole newaudience. Because, because, you
know, in the record bin, if yourrecord was at sound warehouse or
at one of these old school TowerRecords. It would be in the
country section, but you'remixing all sorts of stuff in
there. You got a bunch of rockplayers, miles McPherson,
playing the drums for you in thestudio. He's a rocker covered in

(12:10):
tattoos. You know what? I mean,come on. So your your music is
very genre bending. And thatsong that we just played is
called stomp. And is that atRadio right now? Or was it at
Radio? No, actually,
that song Never went to radio,but bullet is right. But bullet
is our most recent single, buton digitally, that's not a radio
yet either. Okay, hopefully,
yeah, so. And then you haveanother, a couple of great songs

(12:34):
that our friend Neil Thrasherwrote. And not only did he What
is the song? It's about a cowboyman, still a few cowboys left.
Yeah, you can always tell a Neilthresher melody. You could smell
it a mile
away, a mile he's got a thing.He has a thing, dude, I'll tell
you why I owe so much to Neil.He is. I mean, we started

(12:54):
writing over 10 years ago, andwe hit it off, and I knew who
Neil was, obviously on all ofy'all records, you know, I was
like, when we look at thecredits, man, there's, like, my
favorite songs, anyways, justtotal God thing. We ended up,
you know, getting connectedthrough Jim katino When I was

(13:15):
signed at Sony and and then thatdeal went sideways, which we can
talk about. But the thing aboutNeil is, you know, when you go
in and out of deals and you havea lot going on, and then all of
a sudden something happens, andyou have a blip, that's the
industry, right? And then all ofa sudden your phone quits
ringing. You know, that's justhow it is. Well, guess what? The

(13:36):
one guy that kept writing withme, with that one, I didn't have
a publishing deal anymore, and Ididn't have a record deal
anymore before I got the newone, was Neil Thrasher. Look at
that. And it's like this. Lookat it from his side of things.
You know, I couldn't go at thattime. There's like, nobody going
to radio. And still, really now,unless you had a deal, you know,
you can't, you're not going tohave a massive thing at radio

(14:00):
without any machine or moneybehind you, that's like pretty
much impossible, yeah? So whatwould be in it for somebody like
that to spend a massive hit songwriters, wild, widely
successful, to spend dayswriting songs with an artist
that has no vehicle to make thatwriter any money, because it's a

(14:21):
business to, you know, and
I was gonna say because he didit, because he saw something,
and he probably had fun. Heprobably had a good time doing
he's done it for the right
reasons. We hit it off. And Inever forgot that, where I was
like, Man, this guy's right.This the, you know, the Neil
Thrasher is right with me. And Ihave nothing. It was in between,
shit, man, nothing going on. Andwe would write, write, write,

(14:44):
and always talked about workingtogether in the studio. Fast
forward, he's him and his cousinPatrick are now producing all my
music, and it's like a betterfit than I could have ever
dreamed of.
Yeah, that Patrick comes up withsome really good drum parts.
I've had to cop some things onthe demos. He. Got a very
musical mind, and the parts arereally, you know, well thought
out. And a lot of times I can'tbeat them. So, you know, I just

(15:07):
try to redmonize them a littlebit here and there, but it's the
framework is all laid out, which
is nice. Hit him with aredmonism.
What would be a redmonism? I
think it's more just like aspirit and an energy, you know,
just taking whatever is thereand just trying to flock them,
yeah, sell it, you know, like adoor to door salesman. You know

(15:27):
what I mean,
Redmond calling chuckles, theRichmond all
sorts of stuff people. Becausethey'll look at the name and
they'll be like, hello, Mr.Richmond. Yeah, I get that a
lot, because they just meld themtogether, yeah.
What's up? Red Richmond? Yeah,yours is a very difficult name
to say. Even in the beginning ofthis, we probably need to recut

(15:49):
it at some point the new intro,because I sound like I'm saying
the rich Redmond show. That'swhat it is. And the Redmond you
gotta do, oh, yeah. Gotta getthe do out. Yeah.
So support live music, hire livemusicians. Well, heck yeah, man.
So now you had, you had the guyson your record, mind that
there's, we got these teams forthose don't know. There's these

(16:12):
little studio musician groups.There's these little cliques of
guys, and they really are, likesome of a second family. And the
amount of time they spendtogether, they really are almost
like a first family it's like at9am every morning, you got to be
at the studio getting drumsounds. You get your coffee the
you know, the number charts arepassed out, and these guys know
that they got to make magic in ashort period of time. So you had

(16:32):
miles on drums,
yep, this last session, we justcut a week from yesterday ago,
had miles on drums, bring a DellOh on nice base. Schoenfeld on
electric, oh, I had him Yeah,Tom Bucha back, Tom lecture,

(16:53):
fantastic. Worked with for a lotof years. Yeah and Jed. Hughes
on acoustic, Jed, yeah, man,first time I used Jed. Man. Was
I blown away?
He was awesome. Yeah, anythingwith a string, he's got
it. Man and Tom. I mean, Adamand Tom have been, have worked
with for several years. Thoseguys. Is such a great
combination with those two. Loveit. And

(17:16):
if you use a real tambourine, Iwill come bring the best signing
tambourine you've ever heard
in your life. I'm here for that.
It's, it's golden. Man, well,that you can't go wrong with
that team. Man, that isfantastic. So how did it start
for you? Man, you know, I knowthat. You know I listened to
your conversation that you know,Jim produced on our friends

(17:37):
podcast. Try that in a smalltown podcast. You got a super
interesting story. You came uplistening to 90s country, and I
learned that you kind of were,like, into our stuff. You like
the relentless record, which wasthe sleeper record for
us, which I never understoodthat, because I would, I'm not
kidding, dude, I wore thoserecords out. That's massively

(17:59):
Wow. And so yeah. Grew upstrictly, strictly on 90s
country, and then got into rockand roll and all y'all records.
Eric Church, the early KeithUrban, Golden Road, all that. Oh
man, what a record. Yeah, GoldenRoad and be here. Good stuff,

(18:20):
yeah, but yeah, the relentlessrecord. Why was it a sleeper?
Was amazing.
Well, we appreciate that, butthat's, yeah, it was just, there
was some, we had a cash on that.It was, it was, I don't know if
Johnny Cash was like,
break everything on touch,wasn't it? And relentless was on
there, was back in the cigaretteon there, maybe,
yeah. But relentless was kind ofjust like, and there was, like,

(18:42):
there was like, a ballad thatwas on there that was a little
bit of a stinker. We it was asophomore slump. We were just
like, Oh no, is it over? Youknow what? I mean, we
cried, huh? Left until we cried,was until you cried? Was that
the one? Yeah, that's a good
song. I know it was good song.Kayla's song, yeah, he was on
that. And I don't mean it was abad song, it just it did not
perform like you wanted it to.But

(19:03):
you know what aged well, yeah,it does. I mean, that song still
has a lot of relevance it, youknow, brings a tear to my eye.
Yeah, yeah, no. I mean Kaylasongs and Neil's songs. We're in
the
songwriting capital of theworld, so just in those early
days, Jason was being pitched,so like, hundreds of songs per
record, and then he and Michaelhave to get it down to, like,
maybe 50 songs. And they'redriving around, and their cars
are listening to it. They'rewaiting it. They're way seeing

(19:23):
what's what they're going to besinging in the middle of the
night, or when they wake up inthe morning. And then it gets
down to 20, and then we wouldcut 15, and then, you know, you
would have three or four singlesoff of each record. You know
what I mean. But what? Quite a
process. That's truly how itworks. They're like, they're
literally driving around.
That's why, that's one ofMichael's processes is to just
internalize it's a great becauseyou're listening to music as a

(19:46):
consumer would, yeah, like, whatis this ear? Is there an earwig
melody? You know, there's only12 notes. How are we going to
put them together in a way thatis memorable, that the soccer
mom and the account? Dad aregoing to attach themselves
to palatable for everybody,
yes, but they're trying tofigure out they're putting

(20:07):
themselves in the prospectiveaudience, in the shoes of of,
yeah, not necessarily, whatwould resonate with me? Yeah,
like Michael, or anybody likethat. Just Yeah, interesting.
Pretty crazy,
Rich. Do you? You've been incountless, countless sessions.
Do you remember those days ofcutting that music then? Or no,
yeah, you do. Yeah, because,because, you know, as you were

(20:29):
having that chat with, you know,with Tully and Kurt, it's like,
you know, we're, we're recordingthis all in this same building.
I know that has so much legs andso much history. It's like, I
mean, Travis tritt did a lot ofhis records there. And, my God,
you know that going back tohighway 101, and all the early
70s stuff, the same woodpaneling on the wall, a lot of

(20:52):
the same, you know, microphones,obviously, the same, coffee
maker, coffee mugs, the buildinghas burned. The building has
flooded. We keep going there,because there's something
special and different and like,almost spiritual about and we
all converge in that one place.We know what our job is, and and
it's, it's, and it soundsdifferent from some of the other

(21:12):
high tech places where, youknow, you know the coffee makers
are, you know, the coffeemachines at Blackbird are $5,000
you know what I mean, as theyshould. It's, you know, and it's
right next door, but it's justit is a cool thing to have that
history where it's the, youknow, the same cast of
characters. The only thing thatwould change would be there

(21:33):
would be a pool of two to threesteel players that would have
their strengths. If it was atraditional country song. It
might be one steel player. Andif it was my more forward
thinking, and it required morelike, make the steel guitar
sound like, almost like anotherinstrument, that would be
another and then three or fouracoustic guitar players would
come in over the years. But forthe most part, it was the same

(21:55):
group of guys, the eight guys onthe floor. Michael Pete an
assistant, and that has changeda couple times over the years.
And then, of course, all the youknow, the publisher comes in,
the Jason comes in, he mighthave a small entourage. There
might be a small video crewtraipsing through, and you got
to make the thing happen. Yougot three hours. And we do two

(22:16):
songs every three hours. That'sjust an awesome process. And
then the years go by, and yougo, wow, we've got a body of
work of, like, I don't know, 16070 songs or something. That's
insane. And, and you're aiming,you're in line to do that, man.
You're, you're at that firstpart of your career, which is so
exciting, you know, and you'reon to something. You're, you're,
you're taking country, andyou're taking rock, and you're

(22:38):
throwing it into a blender, and,and you're like, This is me,
because there was a time in yourcareer where people were wanting
you to be something that didn'tresonate with you. So tell us
about that
big time. Yeah, I signed arecord deal in 2014
at Sony Nashville, yeah, and acouple months after I signed,
the CEO got blown out, and therewas a couple months before the

(23:03):
new guy came in. Well, changingof the guard. When there's a
regime change like that, usuallyit's clean house, because the
new guy, right? He wants to comein and, you know, put his
fingerprints all over him, dohis thing, right? Well, that's
terrible for a new artist,because it's terrible for
business. Yeah, it's like, whereare we going to live here? You

(23:24):
know what's going on. So I endedup making it through that cup.
But it was never right. It wasnever right when, when Randy
came in, probably because hedidn't have, you know, his stamp
on me, he wasn't the first oneto sign me at the company. So we
cut and cut and cut music. And Idon't know it was like, we

(23:45):
probably cut 18 songs, neverwent to radio with anything, and
put out an EP over that fiveyears, and cut some new stuff.
Everybody was fired up about it,and then all of a sudden,
something went,
somebody on the higher up said,Man,
Ben needs to be doing this moreslicked, you know, pop country

(24:07):
at the time was, like, reallyshiny shirts, yeah, Ben needs to
be doing this type of thing, youknow. And it's like they called
and said, Hey, wants you to goback in? And I was like, I'm not
going back in. This is I don'tknow what else I would do. This
is what I do, and it's not myway or the highway I was willing

(24:29):
to bend. But you can't put, youcan't put like, a vocal like
mine, and put it on this superslick track. It wasn't natural
to me. It wasn't organic. And Ithought, I always thought the
fans would be able to tell in asecond, and it's like, I'll be
damned if I'm going out on theroad every weekend for the next
30 years. Yeah, playing stuff Ican't stand that's not me,

(24:49):
because
if it hits you, are on the hookto perform that for the rest of
your life. Because country musicfans are loyal, loyal, the most
loyal. Yes, the most loyal,which is a wonderful thing, you
know, because if you're wearinga headset Mike, and you're
dancing and you're bye, bye bye,then you have to go into acting
or something else, because it'snot gonna that's, it's, it's a

(25:11):
snapshot in time where you canget three, you can get three
decades out of what we do,
yeah, which is amazing, totallyman. And it's like they just
didn't get what I do. And that'sokay, not everybody's gonna get
it, but it said, I've neverchased anything. I just don't
always have done what I do, andI've pushed the boundaries. I
think it's great that you canevolve an artist and you know,

(25:33):
but it's like I asked out of thedeal, which was an emotional,
heavy time man who's gonna, whowants to ask out of a major
record deal, because everyone is
trying to get that thing, andwhen you do get it, it is like
winning the lottery. No matterhow talented you are, it's very
difficult to get a
record deal. That's right, yeah?And that's just the beginning of
everything. And that, yeah, ohyeah, man, that's just the

(25:53):
beginning. But if you don't havethe right team, right, it takes
a village, dude. You can't do italone. It takes the right team
and a village. And if that's notfiring on all cylinders, like
you're gonna have major bumps inthe road, and I knew it, it was
a gut feeling, man, where it'slike, something's not right
here. Gonna go in again. It'slike they just don't it's not
the song, it's not theproduction, it's just they just
don't get what I do, and that'sokay. It was time to go, and I

(26:16):
asked out, and thankfully,walked with some masters, which
was, which doesn't often happen,because they knew that I had,
yeah, they screwed me around fora long time and at that, but
you're still the tender age ofmaybe 33 years old, which is
amazing.
It's a good thing. Yeah, man,you get the youth,
and you got a great voice. Itsounds like you gargle with

(26:38):
razor blades. Very very extra,very marketable.
Oh, voiceover could be in youryour future as well. That's a
little raspy. You got charactersand stuff like that you can
conjure
up, I guess. Don't
spread them thin. Jim, well, youknow
that's that's what I know. Toomuch on me. Yeah, that's right.
What's your schedule like duringthe week? Do you try to write

(27:00):
every day.
Right now I'm in major studiomode. Okay, so you're recording
mode. So yeah, like today, I wasdoing vocals all day, today with
Neil, with Neil and Patrick,we're in a good spot. We're
knocking them out. And I'll,after I leave here and go home,
I will start digging intowriting the solos and intro

(27:22):
riffs, which is, I'll get intoguitars next week, and then I'll
do, and I'll play all the riffsand lead parts and stuff on
that. But I get pretty in theweeds about,
you're a guitar guy, I mean, andthat's, that's the thing that
impressed me. I heard you playthat first time, and I was like,
oh, that's, I haven't heard thatin quite

(27:43):
some time. Come along, and,yeah, since Keith, Keith,
I mean, Brad, was like, Oh,yeah. But, I mean, here's my
question, what's well, I'llfirst ask this as you get into
Guitar World, why, you know thechicken picking type stuff,
obviously you're proficient atwhy wouldn't somebody do, like,
bring in some EVH finger tappingand all that stuff. Have you

(28:05):
ever tried that, like, in termsof just a totally different
sound and merging the two stylesto be cool, to get it? That
would be really cool. Because Ialways thought, like, you know,
oh man, if Eddie Van Halen everdid like, a duet with Ricky
Skaggs, Wouldn't that just beamazing. It would be, don't just
be incredible to have seen youlaughing at

(28:26):
me. Jim is just just, he'sreally selling it.
He's rolling his eyes back likeThe Exorcist.
He really wants to hear that hedoes pleasure. We could do it
with AI. I mean, we totally, I
actually made a picture throughAI of Eddie Van Halen and Ricky
Skaggs. It's some it's on myFacebook, yeah, my God. And I

(28:48):
said, If only that could havehappened. Because, I mean, you
know, because you have, like,the Bluegrass really fast
picking and in conjunction withwhat Eddie did, I mean, you
know, just revolutionizing theguitar sound. I mean, that's, I
don't know, totally, so you'rewelcome if it works.
I mean, dude, Neil and Neil andPatrick are, you know, Neil's a
singer, a singer's singer. Imean, his demos sound like

(29:11):
records like LD would be like,Wow, I gotta, I gotta beat that.
Or I gotta, I gotta try to comeclose to it. Or, you know, it's
just, he's got, like, an unfairadvantage. I mean, he's selling
the song with his he can
really sell the song. So he'sthat's got to be pretty awesome
for him to really just, like,hover over that and make sure
that quality is there. And thenwhen you go to your guitar
stuff, he's just kind of, he'soverseeing it, right? He's

(29:33):
overseeing it. But he's like,this, all right, I'll spend a
couple hours, like, getting asolo, like, right? Where I feel
like I want it, where it's notphoned in, like it's like, I
feel like it's fitting the song,right? And then, and I'll play
it, and be like, play again,play and just start humming a
different melody line in onecertain spot. He's not playing

(29:55):
it, he's doing it in his head.And then I'll be like, Oh, dude,
I love that. And. Transpose itinto that. So we kind of ping
pong like and Patrick too, butNeil on the on the melody lines,
and he's such a great singer,just doing vocals with with them
today. Yeah, it's making me abetter singer. Being in the

(30:15):
studio with guys like that, youknow, can take my stuff to the
next level, because you'resurround yourself with somebody
that's, you know,
surround yourself withgreatness, yeah. Now, when you
do your guitar, so you sayyou're writing things, so do you
do? You plan everything, notefor note, and then you've got to
just execute. Or are you goingfor, like, ad, you know, Latin,

(30:38):
ad libitum, you know, like we'read libbing in the moment. Let's
hear that back. And then you'rejust going for it, and then
trying to find a magical onewith both. Yeah, okay, both.
So I'll come in with, like, A, Band C options before I play it
to them. And it's like, Allright, here's where I'm and it
takes a while to get there, justbecause I'm I'm nutty about it,
man, yeah, well, it's for
all time. You're gonna hearyourself in target. You're gonna

(31:00):
hear yourself in restaurants,elevators, I hope supermarkets.
I
want to love it when it comes onas much as I love you know what
I mean? Yeah, and so now play itfor them and see which one. And
then some takes, dude, you know,it'll take me. I've done that. I
saw those 100 times before ontape. Oh, wow. Well, tape, but
you know what I mean? You know,just to get the right one where

(31:23):
it's like, no, that's not right,the time is not right. Does not
hit me right, or that bend isnot where it needs to be, and
they can fix it, but it's like,it's not the same. What take
looking for that magic take,which is in the weeds you could
drive yourself. It drives themnuts. Ask Neil and Pat next time
about doing guitars for me,
there's actually, if you everwatch the documentary Metallica

(31:43):
did back in the early 90s, somekind of monster, no, no. Even
before that, this was they did.They put out a big box set
documenting the the creation ofthe Black Album. Nice. And Kirk
is actually trying to come upwith a guitar solo for the
unforgiven. And Lars is in thebackground. And the camera crews
like, getting, you know, tryingto get in, in the moment, takes

(32:05):
of Kirk just trying to find thatsolo and get Lars is in the back
listening to this, like,cringing, because Kirk is, like,
off in left field, yeah. He'sjust not fine. He's searching.
And then, like, Kirk, kind of,you know, you know, Lars is
cringing, doing these kinds ofthings and then making sure that
Kirk's not seeing them. And thenKirk finally looks over Lars is

(32:29):
like but I mean, they spent 10months in the studio, making
that album, creating the songs.
That's insane. He's not writingthe songs in the studio. Yeah,
that's a world that we're intoday's day and age of
Nashville. We know nothing aboutat least, I don't,
for those listening that don'tknow, they're nothing. We are
the city of efficiency. I mean,the musicians are so good here,

(32:53):
and the process is sostreamlined. We are going into
the studio with an agenda,there's a budget, there's a
timeline we execute. We have topaint within the numbers. We
gotta make our Mona Lisas in acertain period of time, which
actually is a good thing. Butwouldn't it be cool to go to a
destination studio sometime,like, say, in Jamaica, for like

(33:15):
two weeks, and like, get to thestudio till on 11am you've had
your mango and your papaya,you've had your coconut juice.
You hang out there's cateringand just chilling. And then at
night, you go to the pool thatit's so rare that's never done
that. That's
that would be talk about beingin a creative place, yeah, where
you could turn all the bullshitoff. Yeah? And there is no, we

(33:40):
only have it till here you getin, locked in, in a creative you
know, it would be unbelievable.Yeah, it's a dream of mine to
make a record like
that'd be cool. Back to myquestion that we never, we never
asked. Answered this. Okay,guys, why not incorporate those
types of, types of styles, youknow, have you ever done like
the finger tapping thing that hedoes? No, I haven't. I guess

(34:01):
that would be a good rule.That's See, I feel
like, but that was a snapshot intime. The this, it was the
Sunset Strip. It was, you know,it was like, it was, it was a
thing. It was a technique thatwas attached to that thing.
That's
what made him a Guitar Hero,yeah, yeah, okay, and that's
what put him on the map. Waseruption, yeah, right. It's
true. But, I mean, why not tryand bring it in? What would be?

(34:24):
I mean, not only a good two aguitar player can answer that. I
We're drummers, yeah, so, well,it's, what's the answer?
Now, man, it might be the samereason why, like, super fast
double bass is, is going to begratuitous and not appropriate
for Ben's music.
Well, true, true. But, I mean,country is getting very hard
rockified.
No god, there's some bands outthere that are, like, straight

(34:45):
up hanging their hat on, like weare metal with country story,
country lyric, right?
Yeah. It's very interesting,yeah. So, I mean, what? What
would be your like, other than,well, hey, what if I were to try
this? What? What would make youwant to try it? See, I kind of,
I lean in there a little bitnow, actually, just not to the

(35:08):
extent of the tapping, you know,where I'll do, like, I'm not a
chicken picker. Like, you know,Brent Mason, let's just say him,
right? He's like, Yeah. One ofthe best yeah of all time. My
chicken pick, my hybrid pickingis a little bit, it's not as 90s
country, but there's a flare inthere, chicken camp chicken, you
know, where it's not the fullblown deal, it's just a hint of

(35:30):
there. And then I feel like Ialso get a little bit of rock
and like, if you if you listento some of the solos and some of
the songs, you'll hear every nowand then there'll be a little
chicken pick and run type ofthing, but then it'll go into,
you know, something that'sthat's a little more classic
rock esque. I
think it's great. I think you'removing the needle. And so who,
who are your Mount Rushmore. I

(35:51):
was going to say, what song madeyou pick up a guitar? Ah, yeah,
man. Like, do
you remember that moment? Like,oh, that's what I want
to do. Here's the thing, dude,this is crazy for me. It wasn't
a song, so just growing uparound 90s country, but I would,
I would pound on soup cans.Well, did you start as a
drummer? Right? Yeah, yeah, withpencils. My folks thought saw

(36:14):
that. It was like, there's some,you know, some. But nobody in my
family was musical. It's a totalGod, nothing. Yeah, no kidding,
I'm the black sheep of thefamily man. Wow, yeah, like John
Anderson song. Oh no, yeah.
Crazy. Then my folks got me aguitar, and I just took to that.
And all all the while, 90scountry was playing. You know,

(36:36):
Black Hawk was early, TimMcCarthy records, John Anderson,
Tracy Lawrence, Chris Black, youname it, yes. Yes to all of
that. Not even Brooks, Brooksand Dunn not even one in
specific, just all of it. Andthat's when I got the bug, early
on and heard Brent at the time.I didn't know a lot of that
stuff was Brent. And I was like,man, sonically, it sounded so

(36:59):
unlike anything I've ever heard.Have you gotten friendly with
Brent? No, I don't know himwell. I did session with him
before, and it was fantastic,and it's awesome, but I don't I
haven't spent too much time withhim.
Yeah, man. And now, what about
vocals? Who was a guy that, orgal it? That is just like, super
like, whoa.
Vince Gill, yeah. Okay, and Isound nothing like Vince Gill,

(37:21):
but when you hear I was like,Oh, my God, seems
like an angel. But, you know,guitar
wise, too, he makes, makes everynote count, yeah. And place that
Liza, Jane, just feels so good.You know, like kids come to me,
they want to learn a train beat.And I say, like, train beats
don't all have to be super fast.This is a mid tempo, like, Damn
skin, skin game. It on skin. Nowyou got to keep that for three

(37:44):
and a half minutes. And it's afeeling, you know, so, so cool.
Liza Jane, we play that livesometimes, yeah, yeah, that's
chicken figure. That's a goodone.
Speaking of train beats, when Idid the Huey gig, yeah, we
played Honky Tonk blues, yeah.Did you notice my train beat?
But it was actually more it was,it wasn't a left, right, left,

(38:04):
right. It was on the right. Yes.
Like, it just, it's basically afast rock beat, but it, you're
mimicking the train going downthe tracks. Very consistent,
very good. Jim. Like, don't stopplaying, Jim. I'm not going to,
yeah, he's good. Now you're thetrack Jim. Jim is, I'm not gonna
call him a closet drummer. He isa drummer, he is a drummer
because once you're a drummer,you're always a drummer. But he
hadn't played publicly for 18years, and then all of a sudden,

(38:27):
he plays in this band at thecity winery. And me and my buddy
Luis Espaillat, bass player, wewent and had some flatbread and
watched Jim rock out. Man wasgreat. He says he was just like,
it was like, wearing an old pairof shoes. It comes back. You
know,
I took me about three months toprepare for it, you know. And
it's a good thing that I did,because I lost my ears halfway
through.
Oh, that's a nightmare. And hehad to play without a click, and

(38:49):
it sounded great. Yeah, we're
playing the tracks with a click,and everything is your anxiety
level. Like, it was literally,like, at this age of my life, I
don't freak out about muchanymore. I just literally, it
was right in the middle of asong. We were going from a
couple days off into boys areback in town, and in between is
like a New Orleanian shuffle,kind of things. And I'm I'm

(39:10):
listening to, it's just me andthe piano player, and I'm
listening for the cues that he'skind of putting because he
wasn't playing exactly how theydid it live, and I was playing
exactly what I listened to, youknow? And all of a sudden, I'm
just, I'm listening to what he'splaying. Okay? He's coming up to
that part, and all of a sudden,done. I'm going
where he's it's a weird feeling,right?

(39:32):
Well, it's Oh crap. How do Itell everybody I have no ears?
Well, good thing that coupledays or boys are back in town.
We don't really need a click. SoI can finish that off from pure
memory. But how are we going todo want a new drug that's got a
click, that's got tracks videothe whole nine year, the whole
thing is flashing before you'reoh gosh, I'm like, a bad place
to be. It was all memory I hadbecause I couldn't hear the

(39:54):
band. I mean, I blew myheadphones off. I was playing
just raw what I could hear. Youknow, I haven't played raw
cymbal volume in years.
Oh, it's, it's a drum set islike a jet airliner taking off,
you know, I mean, it's like ajet airliner was 100 is like 120
decibels. And the average drumset could be somewhere between,
you know, 85 to 120 the way Iplay it's is around 120

(40:19):
thankfully, the singer Roger theHuey, yeah. I think the same
thing happened to him. Hecouldn't hear either, so we're
just looking at each other. He'slike, Yeah, I got nothing
either. I'm like, okay, the showhas to go on. I said
I gotta go on. I had to play itin those moments. But it's not,
you know, it's not as not a poolyou want to swim in.
That's right, yeah, deadbattery. Dead battery. That's

(40:43):
what it was
in the little box that I pluggedinto. Yeah.
Man, didn't even notice it. Jim,of course, I was talking to a
million people that reallypaying attention, but if you're
listening to this podcast, itmeans you're already looking to
improve your drumming, why notlevel it up in person with me,
when you book a one on one day,drum tense drummers from around

(41:07):
the world have traveled toNashville to study with me. We
cover subjects like readingrudivis, technique, hand
development, charting theNashville Number System, styles,
percussion, music biz, insiderinfo, career development,
positive mindset and much more.Of course, we address all your
questions, and my deepcurriculum has helped players of
all kinds move the ball down thefield to be closer to their

(41:29):
goals, even getting accepted tocollege music programs, moving
to that dream music town,getting gigs and keeping them.
Find out more about my one onone day, drum tensive. Go to
drumtensive.com D, R, U, m, t,e, n, s, I, V, e.com,
drumtensive.com

(41:52):
have a podcast that needs afacelift, or maybe you're just
starting out and want to hit theground running at it's your
show.co. We help you produce,rebrand and elevate your
podcast, led by industry vet JimMcCarthy, a 25 plus year
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(42:13):
powerful tools to grow yourbrand, connect authentically and
build trust with your audience,but sounding like a pro, that's
what sets you apart. Visit. It'syour show.co. Today, and let's
make your podcast sound like itshould. That was
great. I like that city winery.It's like it's been there
forever, and in the last yearI've been there so many times, a
nice little venue. Yeah, that'scool. It's cool thing you ever

(42:34):
played the city never playedthere, but I've been there.
Yeah. And then, so what kind ofvenues are you doing now when
you headline. So
it's like, we're in the if we'reheadlining, it's smaller clubs.
Yeah? It's nice. You know, it'ssmall. The fans are right there
in theaters. Yeah? I liketheaters. Um, I love playing
solo acoustic in a theater,yeah? Dead quiet, man. You can
really deliver a song in a in asetting like that, where it's

(42:56):
like, story, lyric and a melody,blowing, blowing it down,
natural verb in a place likethat. I, I like theaters because
they're, they're always haunted.And there's, they're usually
they've been there 100 years. Idon't do ghosts. You know what?
I mean? Yeah,
there's a lot of ghosts inPennsylvania,
Gettysburg. Yes, every you ever
see the videos of them driving aTesla through Lake Gettysburg,

(43:19):
or cemeteries, because Tesla, itcan pick up pedestrians right on
the little thing that they have.Yeah, and, you know, people have
driven through, like, old CivilWar cemeteries and stuff, and
they're picking up humans. Butthere's nothing there,
what? Yeah, there's a watch.Look it up on YouTube.
Wow. Another thing to distractmyself with.

(43:41):
So, you know you're, you're, I'mtrying to think with generation.
Are you a millennial?
Yeah, 33 I was born in 92
Yeah, you might be your I'm anex.
Yeah, millennial. I guess I'mjust trying
to think so when you go to homeat night and you watch
television with your family, doyou watch YouTube? Or do you

(44:02):
watch, you know, normal TV,Hulu, Amazon Prime, all that
kind of
stuff. Yeah. So usually, like,whenever, whenever I'm done
music, when I'm just like,everything's done for the day.
Be like, I don't know, usuallyaround 830 or nine, and my wife
will we have a 10 month old athome. He goes down, sleeps
really good. Oh, that's great,amazing. God bless you. Put him

(44:23):
down. And then, like 830 ornine, we'll watch one or two
episodes something, and thenthen that'll be it, yeah, but
we're What do you guys watch? Isthere anything good we could be
watching right now? There's athing on Netflix
that people are talking about
called the waterfront. Oh yeah.What happened to primal? Oh
yeah. I there
for a while. I was on this kickwhere I just binged this series

(44:44):
called primalism, like an adultanimated series about a caveman
that befriends a T Rex andthey're like best friends. It
was incredibly violent, and Iloved it. That's great.
It's a cartoon. Yeah. We watcheda couple of episodes. My wife
and I. Oh,
like, why are we watching this?Seal Team,

(45:04):
SEAL team. What's that
on? I don't maybe Hulu, one ofthose. Yeah, there's, like, six
seasons or something. Oh, my,that's the one thing I don't
want to get locked in. If it'slike, yeah,
oh, man, are you guys like me,where, you know, my wife will
binge watch a lot of she likesto have stuff on in the

(45:24):
background, yeah. So she'llwatch a lot of stuff while she's
doing other things. But howcould she pay attention
to the plot she does? She's justgot that money that I'm all or
not,
we're men. We can't So, I mean,it's like, if I am watching
something, it better grab me inthe first five minutes.
Otherwise, I just, I don't wannapay any attention.
Six seasons is a massivecommitment, you know, and

(45:47):
especially if you start watchingsomething at nine o'clock at
night, give me an hour and ahalf movie in and out. But if I
open up Pandora's box and I'mloving a series and you started
at nine o'clock at night,there's the potential to stay up
way too late and it screws upyour whole day. Next day, it can
be dangerous, yeah,
it can be but be dangerous forme. I re watch a lot of stuff,
really, yeah, I have, like, theMarvel movies I've seen hundreds

(46:09):
of times, see
I can't re watch nothing. I feellike I'm wasting my I'm like,
I'm like, Huh? I was like, Ican't see that again. It was
great, yeah, but I want to seesomething else. Yeah,
you'll actually pick up. Like,when you do stuff and you re
watch stuff, as you get older,you pick up other things about
those movies. Like, for example,I'm re watching the matrix all

(46:31):
those movies, I'm picking up alot of stuff. Are they missed
before?
Yeah, I can see that. Plus, it'sgreat to just see people in
leather,
yeah? Well, even latex, yeah,latex. Have you guys, have you
watched re watch Jaws yet? It'sits 50th,
50th anniversary.
Really need to know? Yeah, it'scoming
out in the theaters at the endof the month. We should go see
it. Let's go do it.

(46:51):
It'll be a guy's night. We'll gosee jaws, and then we'll go to
Robert's Western world. BecauseJim has never been to Roberts,
never 20. It's like, what'swrong shot in time, where we'll
wear our pearl snap shirts. Youand I will go matching Pearl
snaps. He's
10 gallon Jim. Yeah, I have ahead big
enough for it. That's
for sure. Gonna get a friedbologna sandwich and some
crinkle fries. And that occursoriginal.
You could have got one atParadise park, but it ain't

(47:13):
there no more. Yeah, how's it togo away? I think didn't
it? Well, I just never got it.Well, bon Joey's got that new
place that used to be merchants,that was one of our, you know,
five star restaurants. And nowit's a, it's a really nice
looking stage. The drummer's upsuper high, and then the singer
is here. Then there's all these,like, parapets where people can
stand. It's like a rock concert.Yeah? It's crazy.
I tell you about my story aboutjbjs, when I went there, no, I

(47:35):
got recognized,
oh, yeah, yeah, by a fellowdrummer.
Yeah. It overlooks the drummer.And my brother and I, and my
brother was visiting, and wewere just hanging out and just
listening to the band, and Iwent over to the rail and was
just watching the drummerbecause, you know, yeah, and all
of a sudden, he kind of looks upand
he double takes, you're JimMcCarthy, hey, you're Jim
McCarthy. Yes, I am, though,don't ever forget that. Hey,

(47:58):
so Ben, you, you're part of yourcoming up and your music
education and getting your10,000 hours is used to play
prisons. That's, that's anamazing tell us about this
story, because that is, like,super cool, super brave, because
I, I have a drummer friend. Hisname is Zorro. He played with
uh, Lenny Kravitz for a longtime, but he does motivational
speeches. He actually did aspeech at San Quentin, no kid,

(48:22):
yeah, so you were, but you knowyou were doing big boy prisons,
right? State?
That's Max security, Max. That'swhere I'm at, Jim, I'm just
kidding.
Yeah, no, we can talk aboutthat. That's totally cool.
Man. Friend of mine,
back in 2011 his name's ChrisHall. He worked at one of the
state prisons near where I wasfrom, yeah and from. And he

(48:45):
said, Hey, man, we're thinkingabout doing something different
this year. You ever think aboutcoming and playing for the
inmates? Said, No, I thoughtabout coming and playing for the
inmates. Be completely honestwith you, I've never thought of
doing Yeah, no, but it reminded
me of Johnny Cash. And I waslike, All right, man. I was 19.
I was like, I'll go in the firstone Max security. Bring my

(49:08):
speakers in, solo acoustic. 250inmates, buddy. Yeah, that's
good. 250 inmates in thegymnasium. I got my speakers set
up half court. Go in there. Itwas unbelievable. You could hear
a pin drop in that place. Guysare hanging on to every word.

(49:29):
The star for entertainment. Man,captive audience. Yeah, big
time. Where's the symbol? Notout. No, seriously, it was, it
was really moving experience,and that kind of spread to all
the other state prisons inPennsylvania. So my phone
started ringing to do shows. Iwas like, Well, I'm gonna, I'm

(49:50):
gonna start doing a prison tour.And I've hit just about all of
them. I did it for 10 years, andthen all the ones in the state,
almost. But state, yeah, not.County ones. These are state. I
mean, it's like, I even get it.They give me a necklace. I call
it the OH SHIT button. And it'slike they say, Hey, if anything
ever goes down, press thatbutton. You're you run right

(50:13):
into this room right here, andit locks and it'll notify all
the guards on the in the wholeprison. They'll come down.
There's no, I've never had anissue, but there could have
been, you never know, you know,but the feedback, man, I got and
on, whether it was new songs orfrom family members that reached
out, or whatever that had talkedto, whoever it was that was, it

(50:34):
was in guys, you know, sometimesI get chance to talk to him
after the show. I'll neverforget this. I tell the story
all the time. The dude comes upand says, Man, I've been in here
for 20 years, and I hate countrymusic, but I gotta tell you, the
songs just changed my wholeoutlook on life. So when I get

(50:57):
here, when I get out of here, Iwant to chase my dream too. And
it's like, as an artist and asummer, that's why you that's
why you do it, to have apositive impact on somebody
through your music. And youknow, to hear something like
that. And then again, that's,that's really what fueled me to
keep going back year after year.You're you got to think, man,

(51:17):
I'm playing songs to guys thatare really in their lowest
point, yeah, you mean thedarkest of dark. You know, in
there, there's some guys thatare, you know, in their 90s,
have been there for life, andthey're coming in on
wheelchairs.
Oh, my God, think about it.They're institutionalized at
that point. I mean, eating thatfood for 90 you remember? You

(51:40):
remember Shawshank, of course.What? That's a movie for dead. I
like to re watch.
Yeah, that's her definite rewatcher. Great movie.
I'll get messages from,
you know, when I, when I wasdoing it, I would get messages
from a family member, hey, talkto Johnny. What's his name? Last
week on the phone, and I haven'theard him that happy in 10

(52:02):
years. He said you took him outof prison for 90 minutes. And
it's like, wow, man. Like, yeah,that's the, you know, that's the
beauty of music. You know, it'sso universal, whether it's a bar
or a church or in a prison, youknow, to contact, to connect.
You know through lyrics,
sense, it transcends languagebarriers, cultural

(52:25):
barriers. No doubt,
you know not to take it to thedrums. But I always, I always
tell my students, like, look atif you got a mean back beat, you
could travel the world, and youwill experience people, places,
cultures, you knowcircumstances, opportunities
will pra will cross your path.You think it's just just playing
Boom Crack. But if you can dothat, and you could play it at

(52:48):
the highest of levels, and youelevate it to high art, and
you're a team player, and youmake people's music come to
life, you can travel the worldfor free, and doors will open
for you. It's like, it's verypowerful man. You know that's
that's my version of, no doubt,of of trying to change people's
lives and and you did that, andyou felt that. That guy that

(53:09):
said, hey, when I get out, Iwant to chase my did he tell you
what his dream was? But he neverdid.
No, but I'll tell you thisseveral times. I will be playing
somewhere in Pennsylvania on apublic, public show, and they're
at the merch stand. Afterwards,I'll do a meet and greet, talk
to people and sign. And herecomes somebody and says, Hey,
man, my name is so and so I sawyou at

(53:33):
the Fayette prison in 2013
and I just got out and saw yourcoming and wanted to bring my
family. You know, it just meantso much. You know, it's like
that happened. That's happenedmany times. Man, always wanted
to see a full band, becauseyou're so acoustic. Would never
forget that time came in andplayed for us back and, you
know, so it's cool. Man, it wasa is, you know, it's a gift to

(53:55):
be able to go in there and playand play and share music with,
you know, with those guys. Youdid that for a decade. Yeah,
COVID was the last year I jackedeverything up. And so that year
I filmed them in a studio andsent it, sent each prison one to
where they could play it on thechannel, because nobody can come
in. That's cool, man. That onewas virtual. And then after

(54:15):
that, it was like, I'm notsaying I wouldn't do it again.
I'd love to do an EP live atsuch and such state prison would
be cool. But 10 years seemedlike a good that's a good run.
It's a good run. And for now, Iwas like, I think I put a cap,
you know, I think
on it for now, go on, on top,like Seinfeld, you
so, I mean, there was nothinglike no chicken wire, nothing do

(54:39):
you were just exposed to theprisoners. Oh,
my word. Yeah, it was 15, lessthan 15 yards away, wow. And
it's like, I tell you what Ilearned a lot being a musician
and an artist. One time I wasplaying and I was like, I don't
know, maybe a quarter of the waythrough the show, and I don't
have anybody with me. It's just.Me myself, and I, I broke a

(55:01):
string, and I'm like, All right,this is the first time, you
know, in a situation like that,there is no tech, there's no
some way that can hand yousomething else. Shows, got to go
on, man. And you got, I don'tknow what's going to happen in
here if they get out of hand,right? You know, you're changing
your string and telling themstories, yeah, and talking at
the same time. That's the firsttime as, like, learned. I'm

(55:23):
thinking, it's like, totalanxiety at the time. How am I
going to keep this going?Because if I, if I stop playing,
you know, they're not allfriends in there,
but there's guards. There'sguards everywhere, right?
Three guards, three guards,three guards. And the leg alert
he's got around his neck, threeguards for 250
guys, yeah? And they don't haveany stick. They don't have

(55:44):
anything on them. Because, youknow, if something gets out of
control, then that, then theydon't have them anymore. They're
bare hands. So I do thatdefinitely. It's not overly
guarded, yeah? So I'm thinking,all right, I gotta keep this
show going and and this goodvibe that's happening because I
don't want these dudes and thesedudes to start, yeah, oh, man,

(56:07):
oh, so I ended up like, changingand talking at the same time and
started saying, I think it wasdrift away,
give me the B boys free my soul,
and that the whole place issinging now, while I'm finishing
my you did acapella, yeah, justwhile you're getting them

(56:27):
saying,
because I knew they knew it. SoI'm gonna start something
acapella, and that let it islike they're all feeling it
where, then it's not thisawkward thing, you know? It's
like, show's got to go on, and Ican't lose these guys, or
I don't know what's gonnahappen, right? Right, right.
Music. So this is a savagebeast.
Oh, my God, that's that's howDean's go to karaoke song. Are
you serious? Yeah.

(56:48):
So let me ask you, so whenyou're singing that song, is
there video of this at all? Imean,
on YouTube, there's a mini doc.It's like two minutes long. I
had a guy come in, finally gotpermission to bring in a camera
and stuff, which was law likehoops to go through, and it's on
YouTube, and it's a little twominute thing, one guy's being
interviewed,

(57:08):
and it shows me going in thereand playing it's pretty cool
piece.
I don't understand if majorityof the inmates were in this one
location, then the guards werenot needed at other locations.
Why didn't they just get a bunchof guards? I don't know. You
know what I mean. If there's 20guards in the prison and all the
inmates are at the show, theyshould have 20.

(57:30):
No, they're not all at the show.Oh, I'm playing in front of 250
people. Have a prison that's got3000 people,
so, like, really well behaved,most likely, hey,
this is like a, like a
reward, no, even the bad can bein there. Yeah. I mean, if
you're under, if you're in thewhatever, it's called
solitary, yeah,

(57:50):
I wouldn't last one day, guys.
So the thing is, I gotta ask,and this is the most obvious
question, I think, especiallyknowing what pays well and what
doesn't in your experience inthis industry, not being
specific, were they good payinggigs at least? I mean, because
you can, you want me to do whatI'm going to make it
worth my while at least? Yeah,but some shows, you just do it

(58:11):
because you love
it, man, oh, yeah, of course.But you know, you gotta still
make a living. Yeah,
that's different. Those showsare just different. They're in a
different category, though,yeah, philanthropy, yeah,
there's just a different, youknow,
it's more. They gave you chopsas an entertainer.
Learn so much just from thatstory manager is stuff like that
was all the time. And then routeone I had, I did have one that

(58:33):
was like, I don't know how thisis gonna go. And they, they
weren't really into I wouldplay, like, think I broke into
some like, country boy can'tsurvive, or something like that.
I'd play an old Merle song. I'ddo mostly originals, but a
handful of covers, but theydidn't really like the old
school country music covers, youknow? And I was like, and I
could kind of vibe that I'mreading the crowd, and I'm like,

(58:57):
All right, well, maybe I'll justthey don't like that. I'll do a
little more, I'll do a littlemore rock cup. Maybe I'll do Bon
Jovi, yeah, you know, maybe I'lldo a little something like that,
and laid more into some guitarstuff. And then by the end of
it, it's like, then they wereall rocking. But it's being able
to read something, you know,read the crowd and on the fly on
it, which kind of makes you alittle nervous, because it's

(59:19):
like, man, if they're not reallyinto that. Like, man, I'm kind
of on an island here. Nothingbad ever.
What's your go to, but what'syour go to? Bon Jovi, one dead
or
alive? I still do.
I just do the I do the introriff, and then do like a sing
along thing with a course, andthen I'll break out into some
acoustic jam. Nice.

(59:39):
Who's the one that
he wrote for the movie YoungGuns
blaze of glory. Yeah? Rumor hasit, he wrote it in a diner on a
napkin like just came out of it.I love that crazy, yeah,
freaking hit song in fiveminutes. I know I
remember when computers werecoming in. And people started

(01:00:01):
like typing or using theiriPhones to write, you know, song
lyrics, a normal thing now, butit still seemed like it was like
a, you know, you leather boundbook and you're not out. You
know what? I mean, this is asong, and it needs to be on
parchment, you know. So for youleather pen, yes.
So for you to write really deep,connecting music that connected

(01:00:25):
with prisoners at their lowestof low, they're, you know, it's
rock bottom for them, especiallyat that age, man, I mean, that's
got, you gotta, there's gotta bean old soul aspect to you, I
would think,
I think like there is, yeah, Ifeel like there is, man,
there's got to be because, Imean, that's you got to have
some life experience to writeabout deep stuff.

(01:00:47):
Are your parents did? Were theyalways supportive? Massively,
they sent you to Belmont, right?You're like, Hey, kid, you got
four years go do the thing. Didyou finish? It's almost still
paying for it. Yeah. I mean,that's what is it 60,000 a year?
Whoo? No. Seriously paying forit? Yeah,

(01:01:08):
I transferred in there. Itransferred into bell on my
sophomore year and finished. Iwas on the road most weekends in
advantage of rented a van,formed a band, which my bass
player is still playing with metoday, and who's your bass
player to be on Cody. Gall ishis name? What's up, Cody? And
then whatever Cody, I'll tellyou what, though, what y'all
have, man, I think any artistand musician goals, what y'all

(01:01:35):
have, a team and
like minded people, loyalty, 20years I've been playing with
Jason, 26
years. 26 years. So I feel likeas a musician, so
I got these, these look at allthese wrinkles that didn't
happen when I was first
started. So much that rightthere says so much about each of

(01:01:56):
each of y'all and for amusician, it's like that would
be a massive goal to be in acamp from here, from the bottom,
yeah, and ride it up,collectively, right? And then
same thing for an artist, tohave a group of guys and you're
locked in. It's so rare. Youguys are, like, the only ones.
It's like, hats off to you. It'sall these special everybody's

(01:02:18):
goal to have
something starts at the top.Jason is an incredibly loyal
person, and he's a incrediblydown to earth, grounded person.
He's the same exact guy. When myparents, Patty and Richard come
backstage, he's like, Hi Pattyand Richard very respectful. He
asks about my brothers. Youguys. Okay, can I get you a

(01:02:40):
glass of wine? Just a super he'shuman being. He really is. Yeah,
I've only
been around him a couple times,and he's always been just the
nicest guy and saw the earthjust, he's just real man. He
lives.
He's like, actually, when he'stalking to you, it's not just
like, you know, an exercise insmall talk. I mean, he really
is. He's listening to the peoplehe's talking to. He asks

(01:03:03):
questions. To ask questions.Yeah. I mean, that's, that was
our encounter when we got whenyou took us backstage, and we
got to, you know, the kid, when
your son was like, when are wegoing backstage? Yeah, and is,
where are backstage? There's theband. Yeah, the band
just walked by. Kids have
this perception that it's like,almost like some Valhalla. It's

(01:03:23):
like things are glistening withgold. It's like, no, it's sweaty
cheese and towels and roadcases. Yeah,
so he was wearing a becauseJason's kids, I think, went to
the same school my kids went to,and Spencer was wearing a
Chapman's retreat ElementarySchool shirt. And Jason point he
was like, Where are you guysfrom? Because we saw them in
Charlotte, and we told him, he'slike, Oh yeah, I live over in

(01:03:45):
Kidron. He told us where helived and everything. Like,
okay, dude, I know. I mean, hewas just really pleasant guy.
We're all spring
hillians. Now it's pretty
cool. Wow. Yeah. So do you see alot of well, both y'all being
drummers. Do you see more newdrummers, new new cats coming to
town nowadays than you did backin the day to do this for a

(01:04:08):
living.
I think the advent of Instagramand Tiktok and all that stuff
certainly has increased theappeal. I
think Music City is so on fire,and country as a culture is so
on fire. It's just like, this isone of the last cities for the
music business, and like, realpeople writing songs in a room

(01:04:30):
at the same time, sessionmusicians all on the floor at
the same time doing the thing.And then, you know, the real
estate prices are going up, andpeople are getting pushed out to
the burbs and stuff. But that'sgoing to happen with the growth.
I don't mind the growth. I don'tmind the growth. I don't mind
that the multicultural input.Because you are getting guys

(01:04:51):
from Texas, the Miami,Chicago's, Atlanta, New York,
Los Angeles. They are coming inlike, oh my god, I could raise I
could raise my kid here. If Iwork really hard, I can buy a
house. I can have dirt under myfeet, you know, there's a little
bit of space, so I don't thinkit's going to slow down anytime
soon. But as my dad said, youknow, you know, must be present

(01:05:12):
to win, and the cream rises, youknow. So just be the cream, you
know. Just Just stay. Justcommit until you are the cream.
And it might take 20 minutes tomeet somebody at the airport
that changes your lives, or itmight take 20 years, but you
just got to be committed to it.And
to your point you were sayingearlier, you might have that

(01:05:32):
lightning in a bottle thing,yeah. I mean, it's, don't, don't
discount that. I mean, you'reonly how many years in, you
know. So, I mean, you couldcertainly have that same kind of
an effect. It's, it couldcertainly play out that way. I
think it will. I mean, you seemlike a loyal guy. You seem like
you've got, you've definitelygot a charisma and a

(01:05:54):
vivaciousness and that kind ofsame appeal where you're
interested in other people,that's a
lot of it. And you love livemusic, and you're not afraid to
go out there and take the musicto the people, and people. And
you're different sounding. Youwere fascinated with that. You
always were playing on theweekends while you were in
college. I did the same thing.Man, it's like, I'm, you know,
studying for a, you know, aphysics test on a Sunday after a
gig, pulling an all nighter,because on Monday morning, at

(01:06:15):
eight
o'clock, I get it. Yeah, you did
it. Did it
because, I mean, also, you'regoing to have the element of,
there's a little bit of ahomogenization happening with
artists these days. You can'treally tell them from one
another. Some of the newer ones,at least, I sound the same,
right? You You're distinctbecause you got that, you got
that edge to your voice. Read agargoyle with razor blades, that

(01:06:35):
kind of thing. So, I mean,you're gonna have, you're gonna
be able to have that distinctionthat anybody listening to it
comes out. Oh, I know exactlywho that is. So that's like part
of the, you know, the Van Halenbrothers said, if you play
music, make sure people knowit's you. Yeah, you know, I
think that you're gonna havethat nipped in the Bucha, I
appreciate. But if you involve alot, a little, EVH, and you're
playing, I'm just Jim,

(01:06:57):
just loves that.
I need to learn how to do someof that. I think you should, man
and your label, you know, I
hope that, like, Neil's, like,What the hell did you tell him?
Why? Why did you tell him that?Yeah, blame
it on I haven't been reading thetrades. I haven't been listening
to the gossip on the bus. Ididn't know that your record
label, stone country records,was Benny Brown's. I
know which you have some historywith from the very beginning.

(01:07:20):
Yeah.
I mean, without Benny Brown, wewouldn't be sitting here, you
know, it, it just wouldn'thappen. Wow, he's a, he's a fan
of music. He was a, he's aharbinger of the arts. He
believes. And he gave us chancesto Benny gave us chances to
write, to produce, to you knowwhat? I mean, he's a song guy,
too. Thank you, Benny. Yeah, youknow, he was trying to make

(01:07:41):
things happen for quite sometime, until, you know, a guy
with a, you know, hat came alongnamed Jason Aldean, and it just
all clicked. He
owned car dealerships, right?Yeah, it was a very successful
car dealership guy, yeah, yeah,good.
You don't bet against Benny,nope. No, no, no, great
guy to have in your corner. Sowhat do you want to promote?

(01:08:03):
Other than you got these 35million views, your viral
sensation, you got your big gun.You got the gargling with the
razor blades. You got the workethic. You got the bass player
has been with you for 10 years.You're in the mix. You got an
amazing team. You got Neil. You
got Pat Patrick. He's got he'sgot an amazing wife and child
too. Oh, that's great. Yeah,
keep the wheels on. She keepsthe wheels on. You got to have a

(01:08:23):
quarterback. You got to have aquarterback at the house that's
going to take care of thingswhile you're doing the thing.
Yeah? Or
at least hold out. You know howit is, man, it's tough this bit.
I have so much respect foranybody that makes a living on
the road, dude, especially whenyou have kids. I'll just learn
that now, dude, I'm like,pulling out head now going to
work for the weekend, you know,on the road, yep, you know. And

(01:08:46):
there's my wife holding our kid,and he's starting to, like, now
he cries, you know? He's, like,putting his hand up, and he's
ball, and it's like, Oh, youwant to talk about a weight on a
man, holy shit. You know, we'reand that's the job, right? You
know, it's like, There's no way.It doesn't make it any easier,
but you got to go to work, youknow? But I have so much

(01:09:09):
respect. I always have. But thenwhen you have a kid, you know,
it's like, night. Now I reallyget it. There was it could be a
truck. Sorry, go ahead.
It brings me, makes me remembera story. I mean, this happened
three years ago, when we weregetting this business going. We
did a job, a lighting job, whichis part of what we do here. J2,

(01:09:29):
lighting. Check us out. J2,lighting.com, Jim is a process.
We were doing a lighting changeout in Cleveland. We were up
there for about eight days. Andyou know, you kind of get that's
part of my background, to be anelectrician and stuff like that.
So I'm up on a lift into myrhythm and everything, trying to
listen to different music. AndI'm like, Zach Brown Band kick.
And then, gosh, what's the song?I decided I'm already gonna

(01:09:52):
dance with my daughter to it ather wedding. Oh, buddy. It's,
it's basically, you know, I hopeyou see the same. Seven Wonders.
I hope you sail the seven seas,and it's a great song, and I'm
just sitting there, up there,all of a sudden, the lyrics just
start penetrating. I haven'tseen my family in four or five
days. At this point, I am abawling, flipping mess. Oh, man,

(01:10:14):
it got me hit you like hammer.Oh, totally did. What song does
that for you now, now that youhave that family you got, you
got the child. There are songsthat I can't sing. Neil's being
one of them. You know, gosh, nowI can't think about the one
bouncing curls. There goes mylife. There goes my life. What a
song. What an amazing song. Andthen Kayla's song too, that he

(01:10:37):
didn't
have to be he didn't actually,
I asked him,
Do you ever get you have to,just like, emotionally, distance
yourself when you sing thatsong. You have to,
because we couldn't make itthrough sometimes, right? He was
performing the song at hisdaughter's graduation or
anything or something like that.Yeah, wow,
yeah. Well, I haven't writtenone for river yet, um, but I

(01:10:58):
will. Somebody said, Thank you.When we were talking about songs
on this next project that we'reworking on, he wasn't born yet.
So I said, man, you gotta have asong about river. And I was
like, right, but he's not, youknow? Yeah, he wasn't here yet.
I was like, not yet. Not yet. Iwant to wait for them for the
right time. How many kids youhave? Jim, three. Three kids.

(01:11:20):
Yeah, wow,
yeah, nice buddy. Ah, guys, I'mjealous, you know, you get to
experience things, you knowthat. But you know,
I love the fact that Ben waslike, kind of overtaking the
interview for a second. He waslike, taking host, asking you
questions. Is there anything youwanted to ask me by chance? I
mean, no,
that's crazy. So anything elseyou want to, like, tell Man,

(01:11:46):
y'all the world for all
time, yeah, well, we put an EPout
in May, and we put a music videoout to the song bullet, which
gets a little intense, nice.
But that song changed meaningfor you. Didn't it? It did,
and that's that would be theanswer to your question.
Actually, of any songs, it has adifferent meaning. Now, the
song's called bullet. The hookis, I would take a bullet for

(01:12:09):
you, you know, literally, butalso metaphorically. I would do
it's loving somebody so much youwould do anything at all for
him. And so that video getspretty intense, man. And so
that's part of the EP that cameout of May, and we're in the
studio now. That's it's going toround the these next six are
going to round out the recordthat will come out in the fall,

(01:12:30):
nice and then touring betweennow and then most weekends. And
that's, that's where we're at.Man killer, really good stuff.
Are you out there opening forsome it's a mix. Yeah, it's
headlines, smaller clubs, andwe're out with Brantley, out
with Gary the box next weekend.
Nice. Yeah, so Gary the box, arethe flats?

(01:12:51):
Gary the box, not the flats?
Voice over for Gary's last tour,to promote his last tour. And
Jim coach, are you serious,yeah? Gary levox, yeah. So you
know, occasionally I will dosome voiceover. Ghost you Yep.
Jim is a voiceover man,
because you came from radio.Yeah, don't, don't hold it

(01:13:12):
against me. Do you miss it? Doyou miss any of that? No,
because I do it anyway withpodcasting. Podcasting,
it's radio, yeah, this is radio2.0 it just pays way
better. It is crazy. So can'tcomplain
with that. Jim, no,
it's, it's my superpower. Thisis what I do, and voiceover is
part of that.
So, yeah, no, we are. We're allmultipreneurs, as they say

(01:13:33):
nowadays. Have to be. Yeah, Ihope to see a show. Hey, man, I
hope you. I hope things explodeto the point where you're out on
the road with us. Man, thatwould be a dream, right there
and there. There might be a daywe'll open for you no man, or a
big double bill or something.Man, but I'm just so blown away
by your spirit, your work ethic,your great voice. We had a good

(01:13:56):
time playing that song. We werejust doing like a sound check to
make sure we were comfortablewith levels. I
don't know that's up to y'all,but, man, you're the one that's
holding it
down. I mean, it was really fun.I mean, you're a machine. The
chart was correct, ladies andgentlemen, I care so I did a
chart. There's stomp rightthere. Anybody wants to know how
to do the chart that way you canjust jump on stage with

(01:14:18):
you know, man, if there wereonly just a course there is show
me,
Jim is going to film my music,reading and charting. Course
we're going to do it. We'regoing to film it before the end
of the year. But right now I'mgetting into the heaviest part
of my year, the touring season.And, you know, I'm gone
Wednesday through Sunday, sowhen I'm in town, Monday through
Tuesday. Just occasionally youneed to, like, not do something,

(01:14:39):
yeah, but usually we end updoing something anyways. You
know, can't shut it down. Man,no. Machine. That's a busting
and a curse. But is it usuallynot an off switch in our worlds?
Nope. And it
never retires purpose. That's ifyou, when you the day you lose
that off switch that I don'tknow why I'm getting out of bed.
That's a bad day. Yeah, therereally is a bad day. Yeah, I
don't want that ever to happen.

(01:15:00):
And I was, you know what? I wasjust up at in there's this great
then it's the number one musiceducation site in the world. Now
it's called Muse Zora,muzora.com and they, huh, they
have a website where they teachguitar, bass, keyboards, vocals.
And then the drum Parson portionof it's called drumeo. So
drumeo.com drumeo has been thereforever and ever, and it's
outside of Vancouver, and it wasamazing. I just get to give

(01:15:22):
props, and thanks to everybodyyou know. Jared Falk started
this company a long time ago,his friend Brandon Aaron, they
had me in. We filmed all thiscontent for their website, for
their socials, and then we did abunch of educational content for
like, their training portion,but it is just people are
learning music online now. It'san incredible and eventually

(01:15:46):
they probably love to have youup there to perform your songs,
to do like a little mini masterclass. Or they'll have a guy
that'll interview you, like,show me. Or, you know, I mean,
you break it down for the kidsand it'll be all written out.
They fly you up there. Theyspoil you. They put you in a
nice hotel. It's great. I justhad an amazing time, but I see
that they would love to have
you. That'd be awesome. You.Zora.com I gotta check it out.

(01:16:08):
Yeah, that's really cool, man.It's such an honor to be on here
with y'all. Big time. Likewise,seriously, dude,
yeah, thank you for spendingthis time with us, everybody.
Jim.com Yeah,
Ben gallagher.com. But not
Gallagher. Ben gallagher.comhe's huge on the socials support
his music. We just played stomp2,302,100 streams. And then we

(01:16:34):
got to catch bullet. Bullets. Wejust, we got to get it up there.
It's, it's new. It's brand new.So everybody stream bullet
request,
yes, I love it. It's going goingfor ads. So fun. Thanks
for suggesting this, young man,come on our show. Yeah, buddy,
the honor is mine. Fellas, keepdoing and keep changing lives,
Man, y'all too. We're just it'sgreat to know you, man. Thanks

(01:16:54):
for coming on the show, Jim,thanks for your time and talent,
course, and to everybody outthere in listener land. We'll
see you July 19 and 20th at theMusik city drum show. Monday,
July 21 we'll see. I'm doing adrum clinic. 6pm drumsupply.com.
Be sure to subscribe, share rateand review to help people find
the show. We appreciate you.Thanks. Ben, thanks, Jim. See

(01:17:15):
you guys.
This has been the rich Redmondshow. Subscribe, rate and follow
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Ben Gallaher: From Prison Tours to Viral Sensation - A Country Rock Journey :: Ep 229 The Rich Redmond Show

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ben Gallaher: From Prison Tours to Viral Sensation - A Country Rock Journey :: Ep 229 The Rich Redmond Show