Dango Cellan: Faith, Hustle, and the Nashville Way :: Ep 224 The Rich Redmond Show

Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:00):
You still get people in Nashville who will dog it

(00:02):
sometimes, and they'll just belike, Oh, I hate DW. I'm like,
Why? Why? Because it's
a drum that practically tunesitself and always sounds
consistently good and has sexyfinishes and has an amazing
corporate culture. And so
whenever somebody, when I seeon, especially on the Nashville
drummer page, you know,somebody's just going, we're
just talking about the lastepisode, how they hate DW for
whatever reason. As soon as theydo, I look, I go, That guy's

(00:23):
never toured, or he's never donea fly date. And if you ever get
dw, if you have a backline, ifyou fly, and there's a backline
kit, your options are Pearl,Yamaha dw, maybe tama, maybe
Gretch, probably not. And so,you know, it's available all
over the world. The Big Three.Those are Yamaha pearl. This is

(00:44):
the rich Redmond show. Your
guests are always like, Are werecording? And you're like, Oh
yeah, we've started, yeah,
yeah. Like, what we're doingnow? Oh yes. Have
we started? Yeah, yeah,
and we've started.
But obviously we're going toleave out the part about we
that's,
that's not part record. Oh, wejust have talked about a million

(01:06):
things off record that wouldjust be so entertaining, but
they're off record, guys, okay,that's right,
there's a reason why they're offrecord, okay? And the thing is
that you have to make them offrecord, but they're fun things
to talk about, but they kid uscannot see the light of day. No,
they just can't.
That's right, that's right, Ijust can't. But it was just so
entertaining for me. Now, thisgentleman that we have in studio

(01:27):
today, I don't know if you'reassuming, if you're keeping him
behind the digital curtain rightnow, but I'm just so excited to
introduce him, because we havebeen trying this for a year, but
he's so busy. It's actually aresume. I am, like, in awe of
this. I don't know. It's only 24hours in the day, hailing from a
small town in Wisconsin andcalling Nashville home since
2012 I mean, look at this. Thisguy is going between all these

(01:51):
amazing gigs a decade withGrammy Award winning Scott Stapp
of the band creed. He's afounding member of the of the
pop punk band Amber Pacific.They're celebrating 20 years.
He's also been doing dates withHawthorne Heights, killer band,
long time, long time member ofthe platinum selling worship

(02:11):
band, Sonic flood. And then heplays with grace. Got bands like
red fire flight, super chick,all time, low David Cook and the
country world. He's out therewith Mark Willis, Craig
Campbell, Josh Grayson, the swanbrothers, Tim Duggar, he studied
music with Chester Thompson andBrian fullin at Belmont
University, talking about ourfriend dango Kellen. What's up?

(02:34):
Man, hey, thank you for havingme. Yeah, no, I've got to get to
rock, dude. It is just a longtime coming. Mad respect. Man, I
mean, you are slapping backbeats all over the world for
just a wide variety of artists.Man, congratulations. Thank you.
You're doing it. You're livingthe dream. Man,
I'm so thankful I'm living thedream, but the goal is to do it

(02:55):
with one artist, yeah, able topay all your bills. Yeah, I've
got a friend Rich who does that,
but you have the hustle. Andthat's, there's something that's
so exciting about the hustle andhaving to, like, hunt and gather
for your living, and then youbalance that. I mean, you gotta,
you got a new family, you got anew house. You're doing drum

(03:16):
tracks from your studio, you'reteaching. I mean, there's moss
is not growing under your feet.
That's true. I do hustle, andanybody who lives in Nashville
can appreciate that, because wekind of all do that, no matter
what instrument you play, or ifyou're studio guy or whatever.
Live guy, studio guy, engineerplayer like that's what we
respect about this community, isguys and girls hustle, and they

(03:38):
know how to work, and they'll doit day after day after day until
you see some fruit from it. SoI'm super thankful that I've
been, I guess, building thisthings long enough year after
year to where they're finallycoming to fruition, and I'm able
to juggle it, because justfinishing a two month tour is
long, but I'm gonna jump intolessons tomorrow, and probably a
session tomorrow, then I'm do aBroadway shift tomorrow night,
Broadway shift Friday, andthat's just how that's how we

(04:00):
roll
lessons sessions, Broadway. Nowthis is interesting concept,
because Jim and I talk aboutthis a lot with our guests, the
idea of doing Broadway ingeneral, because there's a lot
of like, young bucks that aremoving to town that are very
opinionated, like, Oh, I'll dothat. Or they're like, No way,

(04:21):
I'm not gonna do that. And thenthere's, you know, there's guys
like me, where it's like, youknow, I started touring, and
then I never went back downthere. But then you're doing
like, four huge gigs, and thenyou'll go down there and work,
work the muscle, make the money,I
it, but isn't like the Broadwaything kind of highly coveted
now, right? Well,

(04:43):
what's your thoughts on that?
Because we'll give you my take,and I'm not, because there's
three stages
down there. First of all, Igotta say, on camera, dude, you
look like an MMA fighter. Okay,
maybe that's another I've beenhitting the weights this tour.
I'll take
it is colorful. I love it. Dude,thanks.
You look like you're about you.Be able to freaking choke hold
us anytime you watch
the MMA, no. And I've never beenin a fight in my life, so I

(05:05):
know me too. I get out of myfights with humor. I believe
that for you, you know what Ido, I take a look. No, there's a
guy that's coming up to me andhe's sticking out his chest, and
he's usually taller than me. I'mlike, Oh yeah, you gonna rough
me up. I'm half your size. MFR,and then they just start feeling
really bad about themselves, andthey just shuffle away. How
often does that happen? Coupletimes in my life, people have

(05:26):
witnessed it. Never becomefriends by the end of that
recently, though, no, notrecently. Yeah, you can't, you
can't risk your hands. Oh no,yeah, dude, cut my hand 25 days
ago. Five stitches right here onthe money maker, the backbeat
money maker, right where thestick sits in your fulcrum, and
my whole career flashed beforemy eyes, and the miracle of the

(05:47):
human body and modern medicine,I am so pleased right now.
That's great. Stuff is scary. SoBroadway, yes, okay, so I got
into it just before thepandemic, maybe like 2018 I was
pretty late to it when I camehere and went to Belmont, I
didn't like country. I wasn'tgonna try country. And then when
I was living in Seattle, playingin that punk band I was looking

(06:08):
to move back, I started watchingCMT. My kind of party was one of
the I've never told you. Thiswas one of the first videos. And
are you gonna kiss me or not,which conveniently, you played
on both those songs. Wow. Butboth of those videos had
tattooed guys in them. And I waslike, Well, this is pretty
catchy. This is like, rock.There's just a southern accent.
I could get used to this. Istill evolved. Those two songs
specifically made me startlistening to country. And so

(06:30):
when I moved so that would havebeen around like, 2012 or
something, right about the timeI moved back 2010, 1112, right
in there. So I moved back downhere, and I was like, I'm gonna
get into country. So I startedlistening studying country. I
still didn't even dabble inBroadway yet, because you got to
know a zillion songs. But I gotmy first road gig with Craig
Campbell, like 2013 and he was acountry dude. He only sang

(06:52):
country. He hated rock. He hatedmy tattoos. Oh, really, yeah,
back then, especially now he'sgot a sleeve. We've joked No
way, yeah, but he used to callme sleeves. Anyways, this is so
this is leading into myBroadway. So I went from him to
like, Swan brothers, JoshGrayson and kind of all the
country gigs I landed were alllike country people, not bro
country not like guys thatwanted rock guys. They were all
like, pretty real countrysingers. So I started just

(07:14):
studying and studying. I waslike, I don't know if I can get
into Broadway, like this, 200songs to get started. And and,
yeah, I knew Johnny Cash, but Ididn't really know Merle
Haggard, and I didn't knowWillie, and I didn't know Hank
and so I started learning thestuff, and I jumped in. And my
first couple gigs is, like, youmake 150 bucks and you're
sleeping your own bed. You'relike, well, that's not bad. You
know, some of the road gigsdon't pay that much better than

(07:35):
that. So I started getting intoit. And I will say now I do it
where I'm pretty selective, andI play with people I want to
nice that I either know we'regonna make money or I just know
they're really good, and so Ienjoy it. So it's fun people,
music wise. But I'll tell you,Broadway has probably changed so
much because I talked to olderguys than me who were like, we
used to do it for $63 a shift,or $48 a shift. You know, I'm

(07:57):
thinking, I don't know that. Iwant to work four hours for
that, but I can be down there ona weekend, play with a good
band, and now I'm actually playwith one regularly, and we can
make three to 500 bucks a shift,which is great money for playing
in town.
Four hours dollars to stay intown and sleep in your own bed
is great. And when we play
kid rocks, we can kill it on ashift and make 800 or $1,000 a

(08:20):
man with a six piece band, it'sawesome. And only make $100 base
and still make that. So that'spretty amazing. But when I look
at us as road guy, like, Yeah,I'd done the road 15 years
before Broadway, there was thishuge discrepancy of, like, your
road guy, you're a Broadway guy.Road guys are too good for
Broadway guys. Broadway guyswork way harder than road guys.
There was just always thistension. Tension. Now everybody
does everything they kind of do.And the pandemic made guys do

(08:42):
that, just like home recording.But now that I've done it, I can
tell you there's so many greatplayers down there, and I've
played with guys down there whoI'm like, You're unbelievable.
Why are you not on the road? Andthey're like, I'm not gonna go
play for 300 bucks out of townwhen I can stay home and make
five and sleep in my bed. Thankyou tourism. Yeah. And so you
really have to wait, because nowI say, I've seen great players
on the road, I've seen greatplayers in town, and there's

(09:04):
just guys and girls doing it onboth ends of the spectrum. And
I'm like, I don't see why youdon't do both, if you can. Yeah,
the hard thing is, I'm gone somuch that I end up losing gigs
in town, and gigs in town wantsyou to stay home and say, don't
take that road thing. Stay herefor Broadway. And I'm like, I
get that. But at the same time,I didn't move here just to do
Broadway. I'm not knocking it,but no, I love that you're
sprinkling in it, yeah. And tome, it's like, well, if I have a

(09:26):
family and I want to provideplaying drums, then I'm not too
proud to do any of it, justlike, teach the lessons
tomorrow, do a session from myspot, then go play a gig. I
might make 700 bucks tomorrow,but I didn't make anything
today. So to me, it kind ofbalances out, like, that's a
good you know, every coupledays, if you can do that, or if
I teach three or four lessonstomorrow, gig, the next day,
whatever, I just try to dosomething

(09:47):
six days a week. Bring that mica little bit closer. We want to
hear what you're saying. I justtry
to do something about six days aweek where I'm making money,
yeah, and I'll work a seventh.But I'm really trying to get
better about resting one of theday a day of rest. And you
have. Have a new family? Yes,and I'm looking at, I, I'm not
gonna tell anybody what it is,but I'm so happy that you are
charging more than $1 a minutefor a drum lesson, because I

(10:10):
harp on this all the time, yeah,a masseuse studies for six
months to a year, and theycharge $1 a minute, and then
they get, usually get a $20 tip.So they make $80 an hour. And
they do that multiple times aday, multiple days. Pause,
right? My wife is a massageformer massage therapist, but
her education is only that's theproper term, by the way. What's

(10:32):
that? Massage Therapist? Did Isay masseuse? No, sorry, so, but
I love Courtney, but what I'msaying is she charges more than
$1 man, she's It's a dog. Now
she's retired because herfreaking fingers are going all
different directions, but ittakes a toll on the body. And,
you know, she got paid 175
in Vegas. Well, that'sfantastic. I'm talking about,

(10:53):
yeah, but I agree
with you. I think that, youknow, there's a tremendous
disparity to understanding whatyour value is. And a lot of
people in the creative realmlike to spout, especially in the
voiceover realm, know yourworth, know your value. Nobody
cares, yeah, until you canarticulate and sell the value.
Yeah, okay, and make you know,it happened to me yesterday.

(11:14):
Somebody wanted me to, want to,you know, Ben, to go out and
shoot for and only get paid fortwo hours. I'm like, No, it's a
half day minimum. Shoot, video,shoot, video, yeah. And I said,
that's what we charge. It's areasonable rate. Well, you can
get it done in two hours. I'mlike, Dude, there's travel,
there's setup, there's the shootfor two hours, and then there's
coming back and unpackingeverything. It's
not just two hours, it's eight,yeah, yeah, no. But i i champion

(11:37):
that, because we talk about thisa lot, and I just think there's
this race to the bottom, and abunch of creative, creative
people. You've got 30 yearsexperience of playing the drums.
So whoever's taking a drumlesson with you is not just
getting some, you know, new guy,that's just, you know, they show
you the syncopate. I mean, yougot all the time in the
trenches. That's great. So Ilike that.

(11:58):
Thanks. I feel like I'm veryreasonable. I'm $40 for a half
hour, which is you can go toGuitar Center, yeah. And so I
just look at it like, and Ireally do 75 an hour even. But
anytime a parent asks me aboutit, I just say, Well, I've been
playing professionally 20 years.I've been teaching 15. So I'm
hoping you're buying myexperience more than your kid
learning a paradiddle like I'mtrying to keep your kid. I'm

(12:20):
trying to guide them along theway with some mentoring as a
person and skill sets beyondjust what they're learning on
the drums, and if you can'tafford it, I totally understand
that, because not every familycan, but for my time, I can't,
you know, I'm not doing $20anymore or whatever, because I
have a family, and most peoplewith a family like, Oh, okay.
But the thing is, is making themrealizing I'm helping you solve

(12:43):
a problem that you have, whichis, when they have lessons with
me, I typically find that theparents don't have to fight them
to go to the lesson. Yeah, theylook forward to me. They look
forward to it. They enjoy thelesson. They you know, I'm good
with kids. You know what I mean,huge. Because I mean, how many
times I had to fight my kids?You got time for guitar? I don't
want to go if

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should. So
do you ease them into it whereyou're like, hey, we're gonna
play back in black, and thenI'll show you why this is
important skill to have it. Ordo you start them with the
traditional pedagogy? This ishow you hold the stick. Here's a
flam here's a paradiddle. Here'spage 38 of the syncopation. And
then eventually we'll get torock and roll. I
kind of jump in wherever theyare at already. Most kids, if

(14:52):
they want to take lessons, theycan either already play a basic
beat, or they're excited aboutit, or their parents wouldn't
try it. So I try to start themwith. Practical things. It's not
as conventional. It's not allthose things you said. And I
wish it was a little more ofthat, because I I'm more
unstructured, and I sort of dodifferent things for every kid.
I don't have, like, this is theday curriculum that we're all
doing. Yeah, it's like, I've gota book for different kids, and I

(15:15):
just keep building off whateverthey're working on. So that's
cool. One kids, you know, on sixeight for six weeks or 10 weeks,
and one kid's like, we're doingsome basic Latin, and another
kid's like, well, we're stillworking on that paradiddle, and
you don't have it yet. So yeah,it's just kind of, I just kind
of go with wherever they're at.I keep pushing them. And then
there's always one or two mystudents that are really good,

(15:36):
who are either, like, one justwent to college on a music major
that felt like a huge success,because I probably had him for
10 years, right? But you have acouple like that who are just
always pushing you, like, Okay,I gotta come up with some stuff
this week. So I'll sit down inmy practice time and go, right,
what am I gonna teach him? Andit's usually, re, you know, I'm
usually rehashing something thatChester or Brian, one of my
teachers taught me, or somethingI got on, you know, you're
standing on the shoulders ofgiants, yeah, yeah. It's like, I

(15:58):
have so much to draw from. Andmy thing is, how do I get this
kid, student, adult? All I'vegot to do is get them to the
next level and still be excitedabout drums. That's the is
it about finding out their why?You know, like when I took
lessons once upon a time, many,many, many decades ago, I wanted
to, I self taught a lot of whatI know. And at one time I, you

(16:22):
know, everything was just verylinear in the way I played. And
then I saw, like, Neil Peartplay in a show of hands, and his
drum solo, he was accenting. AndI was like, what is that? You
know, he's like, he's doingthese little, like, soft notes
in between, yeah? And it's like,I had no idea what it was, but I
had the, I'm like, I want tolearn that. That sounds cool.

(16:42):
The Why was established, youknow what I mean? So I just, you
know, I sat down and my drum setdownstairs, and I was like,
okay, that's Yeah, and it'sgetting the uncomfortable, you
know. And then, and then startedunderstanding accents and stuff
like that, understanding the whyof paradiddles to let them okay,
when you master this, look, whatyou can do is that how you

(17:05):
approach it? I do
that a lot, where I'll show themsped up, like this is what we're
going to do with this, or thisis something around the kit.
Here's a few fills to do withit, but I say this is why we're
doing this. I don't want towaste your time. I'm not going
to make you learn everyrudiment. I'm going to make you
learn some. And then you can gofrom there and learn others if
you want to. But I'd say half mystudents have enough care to
even process it like that andgo, Okay, I want to learn this.

(17:27):
Or can we work on this, or watchthis? The newer ones, a lot of
them, they just don't care.Like, what are we doing this
week? Okay, yeah. Like, youcould explain it and be like,
okay, so then you're just,you're sort of competing with
the technology and, like,they're going to be right back
on their phone or tablet as soonas the last soon as the lessons
over. So then you're just tryingto keep them engaged, because I
think a parent is paying me tonot babysit, but to essentially

(17:48):
keep them wanting to come backto Lessons. And that's sort of
the other Yeah, they may not beawesome, but they're going to
still love drums, like, I don'twant kids or adults burnt out on
music, because all we did wasjust drill the
the math. You find yourselfbeing like a therapist
sometimes, occasionally, youhave a couple
students like that, if they'vebeen with you a long time, and
they want to sit and talk aboutthings, or they're older, you

(18:09):
know, I say older, but like, 20sor 30s. Sometimes a student like
that, and I'll want to hear howtheir life is, or how they're
teaching now, and how theirlessons are going, and that sort
of thing. I've one student inCanada I've had for like, a
decade. He was a fan of my punkband, and he's just started
teaching last year. And I lovethat, because he'll talk to me
about his lessons and show mesomething. I'm like, What are
you showing them? Like, what ifyou break it down more simple?

(18:30):
You assume these kids know, butthey don't, and you could make
that easier. And so he's like, Ijust love you're so right. You
said, once I started teaching,I'd understand why I wanted to
explain things. I'm like, theeasiest you can make it is going
to make it so much betterexplain
it to a fifth grader. Yeah,right, yeah. Now your your drum
parts with that Amber, thatAmber Pacific band, great,

(18:52):
because I think we were about todo this interview maybe like,
four months ago, and I was doinga deep dive on all the all of
your body of work. And I waslike, Dad, those are great drum
parts. I mean, it was like, wasthe band? Did the band kind of
come up at the same time aroundthe some 40 ones and the blink
180 twos and all that.
Oh, for sure, our years onWarped Tour were the early 2000s
those bands were big blink andGreen Day were, like the massive

(19:15):
mainstream. But we landed thesame time as, like, Fall Out Boy
and my chemical romance, and alot of those, just the pop punk
and emo stuff all hit aroundthen. And so some 41 yellow
card, a lot of those bands wetoured with. So yes, I was in my
early 20s or mid 20s. I was justdone with Belmont. I was like,
I'm going to show the world. I'mgoing to play the coolest stuff.

(19:37):
And it's funny, because I lookback now, especially this year,
Amber, Pacific. It's our 20thanniversary. We did new record
in January. It came out inJanuary. So we recorded
Nashville. And I said, how wouldI play this in my 40s as a
mature drummer, versus what I'dhave done 20 years ago? So I
said, I'm not gonna pre come upwith the craziest parts. I'm
just gonna play for the song. Dosome cool stuff, but try to play

(19:57):
for the song, yeah, which soundsvery Nashville, but. Those early
records. I listened back, I waslike, that is so busy. And yes,
I executed some cool things, andI really worked on them. And
this was, yeah, there was ProTools, but it was like, You, I
mean, you had to play stuff. Andyeah, and we were doing
everything on the click, whichin punk rock was not common. We
played to a click Live, but Iwas very anal. We were on Warped
Tour playing to a click Live.And I remember one time Brooks

(20:19):
Wackerman, who was one of myfavorites. He was in bad
religion. Now he's in avengedseven. In Avenged Sevenfold, but
he's standing behind me, andhe's like, man, your timing is
just so good after the set. AndI said, Well, man, I play to a
click. And he said, You do thatlive. And I'm like, You're
Brooks Wackerman, like you'reone of the guys. I look up to
him, and Josh freeze and yeah,he couldn't believe it, but that
was just why, when I went in todo the records, my timing was
really good. That was verycommon. Yeah, yeah. And now,

(20:40):
everybody, you know, everybody'sgot tracks, all the metal bands,
everybody's on click now, butback then, yeah, not common,
unless you were in a hugemainstream act. So that helped
me a lot of my timing developingto play fast, but also it was
fast stuff. So didn't reallytranslate to Nashville at all
coming back, but
very creative. You do thingslike, like, like, on a bell. You
did? Gosh, yeah.

(21:03):
And that's a lot of that. Therewas a lot of Travis Barker in
that area. He was the guy thatput it mainstream. But the
bands, there was also a lot ofthe fast punk bands, no effects
and strung out and lag wagon andMX, px rise against a lot of
these bands had fast drummerswho did cool stuff. They just
weren't household names. TravisBarker really put it into the
mainstream of like, oh, you canplay busy, yeah, if it's in this

(21:24):
genre. So now
he's a Kardashian. So, well,yeah, he married. He's married.
He married a
Kardashian. He was married to aPlayboy Playmate for a
while. He was so all that to saya bad breath.
Even hot girls have halitosis.He
did. Came into my radio studio,my production studio, and I was
like, Hey, how's it going? Oh mygosh, okay, let's go take the

(21:47):
picture. It's
amazing. Jim,
so I look back, I'm really proudof those records, especially for
the era they were, yeah, I wishthat band had been able to get
bigger, but we had a great run.We had some videos on MTV. I
mean, it
was a band, band, right? So youwere like, yeah, it was a game
you got publishing. And you'relike, selling hoodies, and
you're like, taking shifts,driving the van, you're deciding

(22:08):
what the cover the record'sgonna be,
yeah, all that. And kids came toshows who were like, fans, and,
you know, fans of your drumparts. And I had a drumming DVD
I put out. Of a lot of thosevery early on, you're an early
adapter, yeah? And so, forexample, this tour I just did
with Hawthorne Heights, we cameup at the same time as them. We
shared a bus with them back inthe 2000s so I go way back with
these guys, but I don't reallytalk about Amber Pacific a lot

(22:30):
when I'm out there. But we weredoing a VIP. And last week, a
kid, a kid, you know, a 35 yearold kid, comes to our 35 year
old kid, you know, we're signingall these Hawthorne Heights
records, and he pulls out thefirst Amber Pacific record, and
he had done his homework. Heknew I was on the road, and he's
like, Hey, man, I've never metyou. I'm a huge fan. It was so
touching, because it's a, youknow, an album from 2005 that I

(22:51):
signed this week. And those aresuper rewarding, because you
don't kind of so the so you goway back with the Hawthorne
guys. So when they needed adrummer for whatever reason,
they were like, Hey, rememberthat dude from way back? Yeah,
and
we'd kind of amber Pacific hadalways opened shows for them
here and there. I mean, they hadsold a few million records, so
they were a differentstratosphere than Amber Pacific,
but always cool guys, great,down to earth dudes, family

(23:14):
guys. And so they called me andright around Thanksgiving and
said, Hey, can you fill a coupleshows? I said, Man, I'd be
honored to like, You guys areawesome. And by the time I
rehearsed with them, Poppy, theprevious drummer, had been there
decade, and he just just like,I'm done. I quit. I'm done with
the road. And I was buddies withhim. He just hit a point where
he's like, I don't want to be onthe road anymore. So it wasn't
any bad blood

(23:34):
at all. Isn't it funny how thatdoes happen to people like it
does?
Yeah, you just burn out, or youjust hit a point. And he just
hit 50. And I think he was like,you know, I think I want to try
some other stuff in life. So Ikind of,
drumming is a lot of work. It'sthe because I was a huge fan,
really enough bad religion,yeah. So, I mean, he big fan of
theirs. I love their music, andI listen, you know, back in the

(23:54):
bobby Shea or years and stufflike that. And when they were
open, when they, I just moved toVegas, and they made the
announcement that he did thepart of the band. I think he
blew out his shoulders orsomething, and like, Hey, we're
auditioning. I'm like, oh, Ishould audition. And then they
hire Brooks, and I'm like, Yeah,and it's funny, we'll talk about
night and day that first albumthey did. It was like, Oh my

(24:18):
gosh. Just energy and just, he'ssuch a player. Yeah, goodness.
What a beast.
The weird thing I have aboutsome of the punk bands, like
super fast stuff, like, I starthearing the upbeat snare as the
downbeat.
I get that. I did it around. Idid it first. But once you hear

(24:39):
it, it's also about theproduction in the mix, if it's
mixed well and the guy's reallysolid, yeah, you can feel it.
And I think on our records, whenyou hear that beat, you can feel
it because of there's a coupledifferences how you accent the
kick. I know it's pointless toget into but a few of my guys, I
could go I can hear it withoutyou telling me who it is, and
I'll know by the kick drum whatband it is, because I've studied
that

(24:59):
beat. It's like, like, what?Like, Josh with the Vandals is
flawless, yeah. I mean, just hisspeed, dude. It's so Josh freeze
is my number one. Like, if Icould be anybody, because he can
play for everybody. He can doit, but he still did the punk
thing, but then he can do FooFighters. Since there's
something about punk that I feltlike I missed out on because

(25:21):
there's, you know, in incountry, I tell all my students,
you're going to be playing a lotof songs between 69 and 89 BPM,
because it matches the strumpattern of an acoustic guitar
when where songs are beingwritten. That's just the sweet
spot of that particular genre.So a lot of the stuff that just
becomes part of our DNA playingthis genre is that is the
bottom, even high heads gonna bea lot of douche do, gosh, do you

(25:44):
know so? But I never got to playthe super fast stuff, because
you have to. It's another mentalswitch, because the time is
going by faster. So, but are youthinking 12341, it's more.
You're thinking probably almostcut time, right?
What's funny is we call it. Thisisn't a this is not the correct,
correct musical term, but weused to analyze this, and we
call it triple time, becauseyou've got straight time, 123,

(26:07):
cut time, 121, and two and threeand then twice a and lots of
times, all of ours were over 200BPM, and that's kind of how my
band did it. So we'd be going toget it and your kick, and it's
very specific, that has to besingle foot. If you play it with
double kick, it's metal, it'scheating. So it's got to be it's

(26:28):
got to be single
so your right foot is killed. My
right foot is very good at that.One thing,
your right calf is, like, somuch bigger than your left calf
right. But
if we get on the right footthing, what's interesting for me
as well as I've had six kneesurgeries. I've had a bone
transplant in high school onthat knee because of drumming,
no, because of a bone disease.And so it ended sports. I

(26:50):
thought I was gonna go tocollege for sports. Was my
dream. But I was like, I guess Ican still drum, they said. So I
was like, I guess I'll go toBelmont and try drumming full
time. So I did that, but I'vehad six surgeries on it. I've
done a tour with Amber Pacificwith just my left leg. How'd you
do that? I just practiced. Youput a double kick down there.
And I'd in college. Chester gaveus so much backwards, left

(27:11):
handed stuff, that I just didit. But, and then a couple years
ago, it's been five now, butI've had a total knee
replacement on that kick leg. Sosix surgeries on this leg. I
have so much arthritis in myright leg, and
a knee surgery is akin to ashoulder surgery, because it's
it's painful and it takes
forever. It does, yeah, how longwas the PT and the recovery

(27:34):
there, the knee replacement andthe bone transplant. My first
and last were the worst theyreached, like, six months,
probably. But that all that saidI can still play arthritis or
not? Like, yeah, you cancomplain whatever I play in
pain, and there's a lot ofthings I can't do, maybe that I
could previously, but I can playmusic, and I can walk, and even
if I walk with a limp, I can'trun a jump anymore, but it's why

(27:55):
I exercise. I try to stayrelatively fit and try to keep
my weight down, because it'sjust extra stress on the knee.
Do
you like, even when you'replaying those beats? Because,
you know a lot of guys, youknow, you'll probably see Lars
do it sometimes, but they'lljust kind of, like, when it gets
too fast,
they never cheat the hand.That's not punk rocket. You have

(28:15):
to do. You have got to, youknow, always yes. And I can tell
you, there's drummers likeyellow cards. Drummer LP was
amazing, but he played the fastbeat going get he cheated the
same time. Yeah, I can tell you,every drummer who's done it that
way. But that aside, we'retalking about like, I still play
punk rock, right? I almost neverplay punk rock. That was like,
doing the record this year wasso fun, because I never play

(28:37):
fast anymore. And then nowcoming out with Hawthorne
Heights, they're more like poprock drumming, like there's
nothing on there that you wouldgo mid tempo. It's all mid
tempo. There's nothing therethat you would say, is that
different than what you wouldplay on a nightly basis? Yeah.
And then with Scott Scott'smusic, Scott Stapp, you're
recreating Scott Phillips drumparts, yeah? But we got to brag
on you, you're on the latestsingle that hit modern rock

(28:59):
radio, right?
Yeah. And so most of playing forScott the last 10 years has been
play due respect to the Creedsongs, massive hits. You're not
reinventing the wheel. Nobodywants to hear dangos opinion on
how creed should be played. Theywant to hear creed. So for me, I
always try Don or Scott Phillipspart playing as close to I can.
I, you know, put a little bit ofmy flavor in there. I probably

(29:20):
played it six or seven yearsexactly as close to the record
as I physically could. And thenat some point we'd been the same
band, and all the guys werelike, Why don't you ever do your
own thing? And I said, Well, Idon't do that. This is national
we respect the original artist.They're like, just do your own
fills. Staff's not going tocare. And I started doing it.
And that's one thing I'll sayabout Scott, he does not really

(29:41):
care what the drums are playing.He's real particular on guitars.
But I just started adding fills,not crazy like try to be
tasteful musical, but just makethem sound more like dango
playing creed, and not justcreed, playing creed, because
they're going to hear creedagain eventually, and now they
finally have this year. So I'vetried to do it like that. And
then when I played on Scott'slatest record. Like it was more
of playing what the producerwanted me to play. It wasn't

(30:03):
like I was putting a ton and youdid it from your home. I did it
for my studio, which is prettycool to say. You know, have a
song that charts from my studio,but on modern on modern rock, I
believe. So yeah, because it wasthe top five for sure, I don't
think it went to number one, butit may
have. And that was the lastthree creed songs are a lot of
cutting the hi hat, man,
that is such a cool signaturething. You're in the middle of a

(30:26):
ballad, dude. It's
just,
yeah, I remember being in highschool in the 90s, late 90s,
when those records were big, andjust thinking, like, that was
his signature. So everydrummer's like, Dude, you play
the high. I'm like, how couldyou not? That's like, his bread
and butter. That's what put himon the map. Are you guys
friendly? I have never met ScottPhillips. We love 10 years with

(30:49):
Scott, and you've never metScott? Well, I don't think they
were on the best terms as far ascreed and Scott, I couldn't tell
you personally. I don't know theother I've never met any of the
rest of the guys in creed. Butnow that they're back together
and they're doing a reunion. Whoknows? Maybe I will meet them?
Oh, who are the other guys inScotts band? Are they old
Nashvillians?
No, and there's been some changeover a little bit. But no, I'm

(31:11):
actually the only one that livesin Nashville
now. Are they, are they going totour with Limp Bizkit? You think
because they they were
at odds, they used to have abeef. Scott has told has said
that him and Fred, Fred are ongreat terms now, I think just
the older you get, you look backlike,
whatever. What were we doing?Yeah, I saw Fred in the in the
audience at the recent Metallicashows here in Nashville. Biscuit

(31:35):
opened for Metallica. Yeah, thenights. And it's funny, because
you see all these guys that are,you know, used to be in their,
you know, not dare I say, intheir prime, but, yeah, they
were in their 20s, you know. Andyou got John Otto, and he's
playing like he's my age, youknow, it's like, Dude, it's
really, I'm getting back intoplaying now, like, you know, but

(31:55):
I'm setting it up, like, how a40 year old guy would do it,
yeah, he's still playing thatkit like he's in his 20s.
Yeah? You mean physically, like,physically, it
also the way the kits set up,you know, that's like, it's just
not ergonomic. Yeah, in myopinion,
I I've changed a lot of stuff,too, when you talk about that,
like, getting older, the way Iset up, Broadway's made me do it
too, those four hour shifts,everything's lowered, it's

(32:17):
closer, it's easier to reach,little flick of the wrist. Yeah?
And, you know, one thing Iremember you always saying is
your your drums and cymbals getbigger, the older you get, and
the less notes you play. Andthat has stuck with me so much,
because just this is a greatexample. This tour we just did.
I just finished 40 dates. It wasbasically three metal bands and

(32:37):
Hawthorne Heights. And I saymetal different kinds, metal
core. I don't know the newterms. I've never been a grind
core, scream, oh, but I'mtelling you, all of these other
drummers are ripping everynight. Every one of them's 10
years younger than me or more,and they're just blazing feet.
And I thinking like, Well, Igotta get up there and
play. But you could visibly seegreat is coming on. I

(32:58):
know. And and I'm, Are youfriendly with the guys? Dude, I
became friends with everybody inthese bands, and I just took it
on myself to be like, I'm thedad here. I am, like, the
veteran. I've been playingprofessionally longer than all
of the guys here, and almostmore, almost as long as one of
them been alive. So I just tryto think about it that way,
because I'm like, these guyscould probably play circles

(33:18):
around me, but I'm just going toshow them. This is how you tour
as a veteran. So we get up thereand and Hawthorne Heights had
hits, which is cool. All theother bands just didn't have the
I mean, Hawthorne had a couplesongs that were massive. So if
you were in the scene at all,you just you definitely knew
them. So I tried to just go outthere and play the songs the
best I could. And talking tothose younger drummers, they're
like, Dude, I've just never seenanybody play like that. They

(33:39):
were so encouraging. And I'mjust like, Dude, you're
unbelievable. Your feet andyou're playing the tracks and
click. And I couldn't do
that, seeing all the Instagramdrummers
they are, and that's and I'm notputting out any of these guys,
these guys, all three of thesedudes, were great drummers, but
they were so complimentary on mypocket and feel. And I was like,
I'm another drummer. It meansthe world. Yeah, cheers.
It's funny because, like, as Icame up, could I ask how old you

(34:01):
were? I'm 4444
You look fantastic. Yeah,
you're okay. I'm 10 years olderthan you.
You you're a rock star. I look
like I'm 15 years older thanboth of you.
It's funny, because I came up onlistening to like Benante was a
huge influence for me. And yousee that guy play now, he still
plays with the same intensity.But it's funny that you

(34:23):
mentioned that the symbols getbigger and more close together.
He's kind of doing because he'sstill playing the same intensity
in music. You
can't be rotatory cuffing way upto the right. You know, David
Letterman, Steve Jordan symbol.Well, all those
guys, all those like the ThrashMetal guys, the Dave lombardos
and binantes and stuff likethat, all their symbols were

(34:46):
typically, because they wereplaying so fast, they had, they
had to, you know, yeah, they hadto hit that symbol, and it had
to be within reach, yeah, andlike Dave Lombardo, the way he
plays now, I'm sure he's in his60s, for crying out loud. I'm
sure
it was a great lesson for. Thoseguys, because, you know, you
can't get around the experienceand the intentionality and the
time and the trenches and thematurity that comes with that.

(35:07):
And I'm, you know, the samething. I'm this, you know, this
year on tour, I don't know who'splaying drums for Nate Smith,
but they're direct support, soI'll sure I'll meet that young
buck, and then Ray Lynn isopening for him. And you know,
that's Kaylee Moyer, youngdrummer, the female drummer from
Belmont. So, you know, I'll bethe granddad on the tour. You
know what? I mean, it's like,you know? So

(35:28):
this week I met, do you know?I'm sure you do. Joel
stevenette, yeah. So I never methim, Salt Lake City, yeah. We'd
met one time, I guess, at NAMMthrough Garrison, you know, DW
guys, but he hit me up onFacebook. And I was like, dude,
I'd be so honored if you camelike, that guy is just, he's
fantastic. He watches the wholeset. Was so encouraging. We end
up talking for an hour. He'slike, Yeah, I'd seen your
videos, but to watch you playwith that authority and so much

(35:52):
confidence in your pocket. He'slike, and you didn't overplay.
And I just was expecting you toget up there and just shred or
whatever, yeah. And it was like,it was the nicest compliment to
get from a guy, you know, in his50s, that high, highly respect
plays
on a lot of video games, yeah,dragons, yeah. And, you know, he
had, you know,
just talking about his resumeplay for Jody Messina and a
handful of gigs that I was justlike, wow, you've done a lot of

(36:12):
cool stuff. And he was socomplimentary of that, because
it's so easy to feel, I mean,it's so hard not to compare
yourself in our industry, and tosee young kids coming up and to
see the chops and the speed, andI'm not putting down the
Instagram drummers, just to seeeither the gospel chops or the
metal side, and neither of themreally compete with me. And I'm
just like, wow, that's fast, andI'm just here playing boom
chick, boom chick. But, but tohave a veteran speak that into

(36:35):
my life encouraging like thatwas just like, Man, I guess I'm
on track and I'm doing it, andI'm so thankful, because I
always encourage my students, orjust, you know, guys new to
town, I'll go to lunch withthem. And there's a few guys
that I talk about, like you I'mlike, rich went to lunch with me
right when I got here. Andthere's just guys who will do
that. And I'm always telling andgirls too. I never want to leave
out the women. But you know, ifI'm hanging with a guy and

(36:57):
they're just, they're they'retrying to battle this Nashville
thing, I'm like, Just beyourself. Yeah, you can't walk
into every gig and think it'syou're the best fit, because
you're not. And you can't landevery gig, but you can be
yourself, and if you stay trueto that, and you learn the
music, and you show up, andyou're professional, like,
that's all you can do.Somebody's gonna love what you
do, and you're gonna fit somegig. You can't be, you know, you
can't be the guy that's gonnaplay for everybody.

(37:19):
And you know what? You're notmeant to work with everyone, and
that, and that is a hard thingto come into, because the same,
you know, hard when you're inyour 20s and 30s, it's like, I
want to take over. I'm going towork with everyone. You know
what? I mean, you're just notmeant to. Because ultimately,
what happens is, you know, theculture of Nashville is, they

(37:40):
call them, they call them thecamps, right? So, oh, you're in
the LD camp, you're in theHawthorne Heights camp, really.
And it's, it's a camp, becauseit's like, this subculture, you
got all these Bucha circle,yeah? It's like, it's a it's a
circus, it's a family, it's theFamily Circus. Yeah, it really
is,
you know? And there's alwayssomebody better and faster, and
there's always somebody thatshows up that's got more

(38:02):
experience, and then there'salways, like, a matt
Chamberlain, or somebody movingto town, and you're just like,
what, what are you doing here?Like, why are you coming to our
city? So there's always going tobe that stuff, but you still
just do what you do, work withwho you can be thankful and
appreciative. Do you're doing?You know, keep hustling, because
covering a lot of bases here,man, when I just played on five
new tracks for Tim Duggar.

(38:22):
Tim's amazing. I've only filledin probably, I don't know, 10
shows with him, but he waswonderful to work for so really
grounded kid. Yeah, he's got agreat head on his shoulders.
He's only
30, I don't know, yeah, like 32years. Amazing.
Crazy. It's crazy, yeah.
So we're fellow DW ers, werefellow promarkers were fellow

(38:43):
Humes and burgers were fellow lpeers. Oh
yeah, yeah, been. DW, I'm Ithink I was 2000 like eight or
nine. Oh, wow. 2012 for me.Okay, okay, I got you there?
Maybe
11 or 12. DW,
really got to the rock guys.They did early on. I feel
like they have even a biggerpush in the Gospel market, but
they definitely have been realrock guys. The guys that for me,

(39:04):
though, were Josh freeze and AbeJr, like growing up reading the
magazines for whatever reason Iwas like, Ew and feisty are what
I want to play because of thoseguys. The only
thing that dw really doesn't
have a lot of coverage in is ismodern jazz. Really? You got
Carl Allen. I
think Carl Allen plays DW drums.

(39:27):
Other than that, everybody inthe damn world is playing their
drums, and it's in every movie.If there's a drum set in a movie
or a television commercial, it'sDW. It's like, pearl
in the 80s, yeah, you
still get people in Nashvillewho will dog it sometimes and
they're just like, Oh, I hateDW. I'm like, why? Well, why?
Because it's a drum
that practically tunes itselfand always sounds consistently
good and has sexy finishes andhas an amazing corporate

(39:49):
culture. And
so whenever somebody, when I seeon, especially on the national
drummer page, you know,somebody's just going, we're
just talking about the lastepisode, how they hate DW for
whatever reason, as soon as theydo, I look, I go, you. That
guy's never toured, or he'snever done a fly date.
And if you ever get DW as anendorsement, if you have a
backline, if
you fly, and there's a backlinekit, your options are Pearl,

(40:09):
Yamaha dw, maybe tama, maybeGretch, probably not. And so,
you know, it's available allover the world. The Big Three,
those are Yamaha Pearl dw, yes,I
talked about, we talked aboutthis a couple of episodes ago,
how sonor is making a veryconcerted push there, and
they're starting to show up atall the different Broadway

(40:32):
establishments. They are
great drums. They're never gonnahave the world coverage because
they're too particular to Germanand they don't put out enough
stuff. So dw is everywhere. I'veplayed them in probably 15
countries now, yeah, I can get aDW tune to sound like me almost
every night, especially if it'sgot my heads on it, which,
thankfully, at the level I'm at,pretty much I can always get my

(40:53):
exact Evans heads that I playwhich which ones are those
double play I use the EC two,which is double ply with a
little ring around it, andthere's no Remo that exactly
sounds like it really. And I'mso big on I've been playing
Evans my whole life, but I thinkthe Emad is the best kick head.
If you like Evans, usually likethe mad. Some people do. Some
people don't like a little it's,it's got the big ring around the

(41:13):
outside. That's like the Remofinally started making one last
year. That's a direct rip. And Ithink it's because the, I think
the, not the copyright. What'sit called? Ran out the 20 years
of patent. Yeah, the patent. Sonow Remo can make it and
not is that kind of like thepower stroke three in a way? No,
okay, it
is not, which I do not like.Well,
we were, we were sitting aroundthe other night. It was a bunch
of pro markers, and everybodyplayed ProMark sticks, but I was

(41:38):
the only guy that didn't playEvans heads. That is kind of
crazy. I was the only Remo onlyRemo,
yeah, which Nashville is waymore remote than Evans, but
that's interesting in thatgroup. So I was Evans. I'm on 20
years with Evans. I think thisyear amazing. And so that was my
very first real endorsement.Actually, Vic Firth was and then
Evans that year, and I playedVic for nine years, and the

(41:59):
adario bought ProMark. And sothere was this whole thing of,
like, Evans guys switching overto pro mark. They played
something else. I was like, I'mnot doing it. I'm not doing it.
I love my Vic Firth and Marco,who was at the time, Holy God,
rest his rest in peace. Marco,he um, who just passed, he was a
and our guy at the time, he hadsigned me at Vic Firth. Now he's
at DIA Dario, so I'm playingEvans already. Steve Loeb Meyer

(42:21):
signed me there. He's been mydude forever. Love him. And so
when I was playing with red,who's like, kind of an active
rock they were Christian, butthey're an active rock, like
arena rock band in 2014 rightbefore step, they were pretty
big band, and they'd sold acouple million records. And when
I was playing with them, Marcojust kept saying, we'll find you
stick, I'll send you stuff. Andhe just kept sending me things
to try. Said, you show mesomething I like as much as this

(42:43):
Vic. I'll do it. So Ieventually, that year, switched
over to pro marks, and I've beenwith them, I guess, I don't
know, over 10 years, we playlike a 5b 2b, I, I came over
playing the Teddy Campbellsignature, which is an SD nine.
It was like a little bit it wasa 16 and a eight, so a little
bit longer. It was like a long5b a little bit fatter. They
discontinued that last year. Oh,wow. I talked to Teddy about us,

(43:04):
like, bro, you're sick. He goes.I know all my friends keep
saying so now I play the 5blong, but I do the rebound one.
That was the other thing. It waslike a rebound weight. I don't
know if you do the forward. I dothe four belt, okay, which is
very pro mark, like they wereall forward until they started
adding these rebounds, yeah. ButVic, are all rebound weight. So
that's what I was used to. Yeah.So all that to say I've been
with ProMark now a long time,but they were so good to me, and

(43:26):
I just thought, I'm nobody, andif they're carrying this much to
take care of me, and I don'tdeserve this, like, why would I
not be loyal after you went
after your endorsements? Becausethat's the number one question I
get all the time. People werelike, how do I know when to do
it? When do I do it? I was like,You will know when to do it,
because here's the deal. This iswhat the company wants. They
want you to be educating. Theywant you to be recording. They
want you to be on television.They want you touring. If you

(43:49):
can do maybe two out of thosefour now high level, and have a
presence on in social media,that that's when you know when
your band is going to be ontelevision, or your band is
going to be playing for largercrowds. That's when you know to
go after the thing. Yeah, youknow,
I just okay. I need to back uphere. Yes, I've been playing for
35 plus years. I had never heardthis concept of forward balance

(44:12):
and like,
Okay, I'll explain it quickly.I'm a nerd about gear. So when I
play stuff, I learn about it. Istudy it. For example, with
Evans, when they put out a newline of heads, I try it always
like, so that I can tell people,You are Great endorser. I
actually am, like, for not beingon an A level gig. I'm one of
those guys that's like, I couldwork at the drum store. I just
used to read the magazines. Somost sticks, well, take Vic

(44:36):
Firth. They're all reboundweighted, meaning they're
weighted more towards the handleand ProMark the differences.
They're weighted towards thetip. Okay, so ProMark just a
couple years ago, maybe fiveyears ago now, said we're going
to make both. We're going tocall it forward or rebound, but
you can buy a stick in a 5b or a2b, or whatever. You play the
main four or five stick kinds.We're going to make it weight at
the front and the back. And thenthe ones that sold well, they've

(44:58):
just kept and the other ones.They've dropped. How
have I not known this? So
either the weight of the stickis in the back of the stick,
yeah, or it's in the front ofthis and it's entirely
preference. And everybody justsaid that, yeah. Everybody just
loves what they love.
Thanks bridge for making themfeel like a freaking dumb ass.
Well,
I'm just saying the weight ofthe stick is on the front of the
stick, yeah, or the back of thestick.

(45:20):
So you're saying that the weightis like, if it's forward, it's
in the front or the back, okay,of the rear balance. So if you
want to rebound, it's more inthe back so you can get more
rebound. Is
it rebound, or is it rearbalance? It's called
rebound. Oh, okay, that's whatthey call it. That was rear
balance, which would make sense.I don't know what's in this
coffee. If you hold a 5b reboundor forward next to each other,

(45:42):
you definitely feel adifference. Yeah, yeah.
That's like, even today I wentto Guitar Center. I had to pick
up. I had to replace this on thesnare. The snug the drum set you
got me, it was missing a look,screw. Yeah, right. Tension rod.
That's right and
really short for snare one, itreally is. So I had
to go get replacement tensionrods, and the guy asked me. He's

(46:04):
like, you don't want any sticksor anything. I'm like, you know,
I should, really, should shopsticks. He was upselling you,
but totally upselling. Would yougo to one at the Thompson?
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.That's much more bountifully
stocked, yeah. But, you know,I'm like, at some point I really
need to, like, once things arestabilized again, and I got
money in the bank, it'd just benice to go and be like, I like

(46:25):
that symbol. I want that. I wantthat symbol. China, that symbol.
China, Wuhan, this symbol overhere. I like the sound of that.
You know, just to sit down andfor like, once in your life,
like, what you guys get to do,would be cool to just sit down
and be like, No, I don't likethat drum, bringing out another
one. I'm gonna put this onehere. Yeah, sounds good. That's

(46:45):
me, you know, yeah, I need I'mprobably like,
do we do that? Do we likesometimes? I mean, usually what
I do is, like, if I like a drum,
like, I'll see, I'll hearsomebody playing. You didn't,
you didn't go to dw and be like,sit down and like, bring them
out. Let me hear what you got,
definitely so easy, like on thetheme song to the rich Redmond
show that was just a jazz a jazzseries, 1216, 24 Bing Bong.

(47:12):
Bong. 24 is not jazz. Yeah, theseries is jazz. It's called the
jazz series because it's
a maple gum shell, which isbased off the USA customs from
the age, you mean
rich. It's not wood that theyfound on the freaking moon or
anything like that. No purpose.I don't know
why they name it that, but thereason it got famous was because
Dave Grohl plays them all thetime. But I don't know why they

(47:34):
call it the jazz series. It's sobizarre. I just know the wood
combo. I know what the wood
you'll play every every otherformat, every other style but
jazz, yeah.
So I'm a gear nerd, through andthrough, and I love it. I could
talk drums with anybody, but thebiggest thing I always try to
tell people is I just everybodyhits different everybody's got
different touch. It's how you doit. So, you know, I've got good

(47:54):
buddies for like, Oh, those arethe worst drum heads. That's the
worst snare, worst symbol. Whydo you play that? Like it's the
way I play. It's the way I hearit. You do a different thing,
but that's totally fine. There'sno right or wrong. It's just a
it's a preference, because I'm arock guy, so yes, I'm used to a
kick drum with a pillow in it.Some guys want it wide open.
Well, bottom played it wideopen. I'm like, well, Bonham was

(48:15):
playing John bottom brother. Ican't play anything like him.
You probably can't either, and Ican't play 20. And the
engineer is not going to bepleased, yeah, you know, for
most situations, right? And, youknow, okay, so you are a rock
guy. So what is you're playingthe pasty Pisces.
You can't play in an arena, bythe way, with wide open kick
drum very easily.
You got to have something. I'vetried the pillow

(48:36):
in there, and still had timeswhere it's going. So, yeah,
anyways, go
on the policy. What's yourwhat's your series of choice on
the pasties.
So is it
okay? First and foremost, is itfeisty or
feisty? It rhymes with feisty.Sorry, and I've heard that from
the namesake Kelly feistyherself. So that is how it said.
I have a feisty upstairs. I'm onyear 17 or 18 in the feisty

(48:57):
family, so I consider myselfknowledgeable about them for
sure, like the Mercedes Benz ofsymbols, I won't argue
with you there. It's, you know,people be like, well, they're
not Silja, they're not Sabian.And I'm like, well, they're
certainly more expensive.They're the ones that sound on a
record. They just sit in adifferent place. And if you
think about the bottoms and theSteve Jordans and Van hills,
there's and procarro, there'sjust a lot of those guys who

(49:19):
are, like, upper echelon, wholike that. That was their thing.
They did their whole career. So,yeah, I play the big beats and
what they are newer line ish. Imean, the last five or 10 years,
2002 has been around forever.You know, you could go Alex Van
Halen, or you can even end ofbottoms career. Played the 2000
twos. They're cool sound.They're very feisty. They said,
Let's make a darker version ofthose. They're thinner. They're

(49:41):
like a thin 2002 they've got ablack label. 2002 they look the
same, but that's what I play.And they're all bigger sizes.
They don't say crash or ride.It's just big beat. So I've got
a 2221 and a 20 and 15 hats.They do 1516, hats. There's
nothing smaller. The downside isthere's no. Uh, China's or
splashes, which I know you don'tneed for most gigs, but I always

(50:04):
have a China and certain gigsI'll use a splash. So I wish
they had those. But for me,they're like, they work great,
and I love them because they'rerock, but I can hit them hard,
but also they just don't bend,and they're light, they just
stay out of the mix, like, in agood way, the hi hats never too
loud. That's probably what Ihave
a bag of. I have a bag of Piscesthat I use. I always have around

(50:26):
for some producers that reallythat their prefer the crashes. I
believe that just at the levelyou're at, because I've seen,
like, a few of the guys in townwho are like, you know, like,
you playing on big stuff. AndI'm thinking, like, Who did I
see recently? Just went andbought all Pisces.
I try not to Jerry. Jerry row,he bought all Pisces. He

(50:47):
Wait, he came in, got a wholeset of big beats at forks.
Because, you know, he's like,Mr. Mile guy, yeah, and the
guy's unbelievable. But he justwanted that sound for another,
yeah, another option, just
having have, you know, have thestuff in your bag of tricks. You
know, it's not something yougotta be misabe. And so I'm
gonna go, you know, I'm gonnastart a symbol company, yeah,
and I'm gonna start it out ofVirginia, just so I can call my

(51:08):
line of China, the vagina.
Ouch, he'll be here all night,
because, VA, try this. Try, trythe veal. Okay,
Virginia's. VA, yeah, vagina. I
like that, buddy. I mean,
really big marker.
I mean, damn you like any kickshis own jokes. So how, how does

(51:31):
Sonic blood fit into all this?Okay,
so that's a big Christian rockband. Man, it was in the day,
and they're still doing thething, right? Yes, but not so I,
I'm, I'm a pastor's kid. I grewup playing in church world is
one of the first places I reallyplayed with people and learned
how to play different kinds ofmusic. And so I've played

(51:52):
worship music my entire as longas I've been drumming. So like
Michael W Smith and, yes, butthat's more like CCM, that's and
I'm a huge Michael W Smith fan.If he called today and said,
Will you play like I would,that's a childhood favorite of
mine. I saw him in an arena inthe 90s. Anyways. So when Sonic
flood came out, they were one ofthe first rock bands in
Christian music to go. We'regonna take these old songs that

(52:13):
you did that were kind ofchurchy and lame, and we're
gonna make them cool. Yeah. Andso they were doing that when I
was in college. So about 10years ago, I got a call to fill
in. They were already sort ofpast their prime. But I was
like, Well, this is band I usedto love, so of course, I'm gonna
do it. I met the guys, sweetestdudes ever, still making music.
And I was like, Well, of course,I'll do this. It's like, we
might play five or 10 shows ayear. It's not a Oh, it's not

(52:35):
competing with barely anythingelse I do. And I do it because I
love the dudes, and now I'veplayed on some of the recorded
stuff too. So yeah, it's like,I'm in their catalog. I'm a
member now, whatever. But a lotof guys in CCM in Asheville
played for that band. They'vegone through a lot of members.
It's not a it's not like aregular act. So write a passage
band, it kind of is, and it'sjust one that I look up to. If I
talk to kids now, they won'tknow who that is, even if

(52:57):
they're in the Christian world,
but they don't know who Sonicflood is, then they're
definitely not gonna know whoPetra is. Probably not. I saw
Petra when I was, like, 14 yearsold. Man About pillar. Pillar,
I've never seen pillar live. I'mgreat friends with Lester and
huge fan of his, but he's like,red over there, yeah. And pillar
is, like, the same air as thatband red that I played in, and

(53:18):
actually, super chick, a band Iplayed for Lester's brother was
the longtime, like, main drummerof super chick. I came after
him. I didn't realize Lester hada brother, yeah, and he was a
pro drummer too. Now he's apastor. Wow. Um, anyways, so
yes, I've kind of come acrossand toured with a lot of
different Christian bands overthe years when all those you
listed in my resume, like, yeah,I might have done two or three

(53:39):
years and boom, it wasn't like along stint. So I keep the sonic
flood thing because it's like,they're brothers now. And if
they called and said, Hey, doyou want to Will you go out and
play? I'm like, if I'm not doingsomething, I will 100% be there.
But yeah, if I'm on another tourdoing 30 dates, I can't leave to
go do one, yeah, one Sonic now
they say it's rude to talkreligion and politics. But with
that being said, Are you still abeliever? Or have you, I

(54:01):
am actually, yeah, and I'm andyeah, it's not the I'm never
gonna argue with anybody aboutChristianity, but I'm hardcore
in my views, for sure, and mygoal is to be an encouragement,
be a light, to show people love.I believe that's what Jesus was
about, right? I don't think he'dbe here arguing about politics.
I don't think he'd be herearguing about a vaccine or

(54:21):
masks, or any of that socompanies out of Virginia, yeah,
yeah. So my thing is, like, if Ican represent Jesus without
being a weirdo, like, that's mygoal. My goal is, go out, play
music, have fun, do this, make aliving, but just encourage
people, they will know you byyour fruits, yeah. And we have a
chance to go out and, like, Imean, just that we get to do
this, and we get to play music,and I get to meet people all

(54:41):
over the world. I'm so fortunateto do that. I'm not the greatest
drummer. I'm not even the bestdrummer in the room. You know,
it's like, everywhere I go, Igo. I want to be the best I can.
But really, like this tour, Ijust finished, my biggest goal
out there was to encourage allthose younger guys and other
bands, because I thought theyhave great careers coming. Yeah,
and they're looking up to me,and I'm thinking, you're way
better than me. Like You'regonna do great stuff. So to me,

(55:02):
that's like a lot of what beinga Christian is, it's just
reaching people and beingencouraging, not trying to
preach at them, and not tryingto argue, not arguing.
Interesting question, though,what is the like with the kids
that you're coming across? Whatare some of the challenges that
are probably unfamiliar to you,that you've never had to really
face, that you know they'regonna face, and

(55:23):
you're talking about musicianscoming up specifically,
yeah, in the next generation.
I mean, we didn't come up withphones or social media.
Obviously, that's one of thecraziest things. Even with my
kids at home, I can't imaginecoming up, comparing yourself to
people being able to watch themwhen you're eight or 10 or 12,
that's really bizarre. I alsothink it's we didn't have to

(55:46):
deal with the idea of beingvirtuosos or playing in the
Olympics as a drummer, like whenwe were kids, you knew there was
Vinnie, and you knew there wasDave Weck on these guys. But
nobody's like, Oh, I'm gonna beVinnie. You're just like, that's
Vinnie. I'm gonna play musiclike you didn't nowadays, yeah.
I mean, Vinnie could playanything, yeah? But you didn't
think, Oh, I have to be Vinnieto make it. You're thinking,

(56:06):
Kali Yuta, yeah, yeah. Like, I'mgonna
go play a wedding band. I'mgonna go, Yeah, I'm gonna go be
a working
drummer. Yeah, I'm gonna play achurch. I'm gonna play my rock
band, or I'm gonna go do this,you know, I'm gonna play a
wedding band. I don't think itwas like today where kids are
like, Well, I gotta get onlineand I gotta be able to play 300
BPM, and I got to rip all theseEric Moore gospel chops, and I
got to do all this stuff, like,we just didn't have that. So I
have to
film it, and then I have to,yeah, I have to learn how to

(56:28):
engineer it better. Sound good,
yeah. And I got to getendorsements when I'm 10. Like,
what that was pressure, okay,but this phone thing as a
father, you know? Like, I'm nota parent. I've, I, man, I
struggle with this so much. I'vementored so many kids, but I've
never done the thing. So you'redoing that. So what are my most
parents doing now to toencourage kids to be present?

(56:50):
Are they limiting screen time?Yes. How does that work? I'm not
good
at this. So I was telling youguys I got married just about
two years ago. I have four newkids that were not previously
mine. Now they're my kids. Sohow long do you know them?
Sorry, I've known them four orfive years now, but did not live
with them to get along
with the ex cut the father,actually, I
do, yeah, yeah. He's a nice guy.That's good, yeah, and I don't

(57:12):
want to
speak. So the oldest you youwere there during her formative
years for sure. No,
because we weren't livingtogether. We were not in a house
till we got married. A year nowI'm saying like, kind of knew
them, right, but now that I'm,you know, trying to be dad to
four kids, the screen thing isvery tough, because especially
the little guys, it's hard toexplain to them or try to give

(57:33):
them time or and the only way topunish a kid now is to take
their screen away. Nobody caresabout grounding or getting
spanked or doing lawn care likeas long as they're back to their
screen. So for me, that's been ahuge one to try to get on. I'm
not saying I'm doing it well,because I don't think I am. When
I talk to other parents, theysay, Oh, you got to limit screen
time that their attitudes aregoing to and that's one thing my
wife and I notice, when you takethe screens away for a week,

(57:54):
your kids are so much morepleasant to be around because
they're they're not stuck inthat. And that's why this
matrix, this causes so muchanxiety and stress and
depression. Comparison. Yeah,yeah. And because you're
constantly looking at what'sbetter, what's in life that I
don't have, we didn't have that.We just were like, Let's go
outside and play I'm bored.Let's go play sports.
Come back when the street
lights are on. Seriouslydifferent world.

(58:15):
But it's it. As a parent who'sgrown up, you know my kids
obviously know me, I'll give youa little, hopefully, a little
bit of a word of encouragement.The best thing you can do to
your detriment is get themtalking. Is get them to
communicate with you. Man, Iagree with that, because my wife
has been just world class atthat because, I mean, our kids

(58:37):
tell us stuff, or I'm like,sitting there and they'll be
bringing up stuff that like, Igo, Really, yeah, you know, it's
just like, I'm your dad. I don'tneed to know this kind of thing.
You know? I don't need itseriously do, but at the same
time, too much information tohave that kind of reaction,
because communication is key, istantamount, and
if you close that door, they'renot going to tell you anymore.

(58:59):
My wife is great about that aswell. And I I'm trying to do
things like it's hard with fourI'm trying to do where I like
take one out to dinner orsomething, to just try to get
one on one time with each ofthem, because they won't talk
around the other ones a lot oftimes. So that's definitely a
part of it. So yes, becoming aparent in my 40s was not like
your idea of things that wouldhappen.
You jumped into the deep endwith it, yeah, yeah, you didn't

(59:22):
have time to ramp up. I didn't,and
I'm more workaholic, so a lot ofthe balance is my wife just
saying, Hey, do you need to takethat gig? And I'm like, we could
use the extra $300 she's, like,more than your kids, right? She
does, but she was working sixnights a week, serving, and now
she works three lunch shifts,which is a huge improvement, in

(59:42):
my opinion, because she's homeevery night. And I'd love to get
it to where she doesn't have towork outside the home. My wife
is anything but lazy, so I justlook at it like she's been a
single mom so long, working fulltime. I'd love to say, hey, why
don't you just focus on the kidsand being home because you've
already worked more hours thanany woman should have to any.
Person. I'm not saying one wordwoman in a negative way. Yeah,

(01:00:03):
Bitcoin.
He broke the wall. He Mr. Furlidit.
That's right, Bitcoin, just putyour money in Bitcoin, yeah, I
mean, but you
get, you have to borrow byportions of them, Satoshis,
yeah, what they're called,that's like the nickels, dimes,
quarters of Bitcoin.
How much you need to get in onthe smallest fraction you just

(01:00:26):
buy? I think there's 100 millionSatoshis inside of a Bitcoin. So
one fact, as they say, as thekids say, stack your SATs, is
that what the kids say, that'sthe Bitcoiners.
That's what the Bitcoiners, whatdo the crypto bros talk about?
Yeah, interesting, try. I'vebeen very big into crypto in the
last two to three years. Well,
it could make me sound hip. Itcould be part of your, you know,

(01:00:48):
retirement strategy, yeah, you
know, God willing, yeah. I thinkthe dollar is going out the
door. But, you know, think so.World reserve currencies only
last about 80 to 100 years onaverage, and the dollar is about
there,
oh, my god, yeah, yeah. Youknow, it's really comical. Pen
says that's, that's zero value.None.

(01:01:08):
Is that the dollars got zerovalue.
It's a Fiat hitting that point.Yeah, yeah, wow.
Because it takes at least $5 todo anything, yes, you know, like
a cup of coffee is like, Dude,you better have five bucks. Look
at
it this way. In 2010 when Ifirst heard about Bitcoin, was
2012 2013 when I was sellingMercedes, and I was like, What
is this crypto, Bitcoin? How doI buy it? I have no idea. You

(01:01:30):
know, it took like, three orthree to five different hoops to
jump through to Buy a Bitcoin.Back then it was, like, 100
bucks. Should have bought, yeah,see so much,
100 of them. But you don't know.How could you know? No, right?
So, I
mean, it was one of those thingsthat you kind of looked at it
and nobody knew what it wasgoing to mean. To me, it was
like the internet circa,probably 1985 you know what? I

(01:01:50):
mean, everybody, you're probablya very select few, a bunch of
people that knew what theinternet was, but the world did
not, you know right now,cryptocurrency, I believe, is
probably the internet circa 199495 it hasn't had mass adoption
yet. Nope. Telling you, cryptoguys, I didn't need to start a

(01:02:12):
crypto podcast. No, Jim, youdon't need anything else. I need
more podcasts to produce.
I'm gonna throw one otherfinancial thing at you. This
changed my life this year. Yeah,tell I'm not gonna get too into
it. I came across this lastyear. It's a company in Franklin
called, I don't know if eitherof you heard of this. It's
called replace your mortgageUniversity, and it's couple guys
who were bankers that figuredthis out that if you have a 30

(01:02:33):
year mortgage, do either of youhave a 30 year mortgage? I have
an all in one, so that's what itis, yeah. So is he all in one?
Yes. So you've already heardabout this,
yeah. So it's getting morepopular.
So it's your HELOC, yes. Sofirst position HELOC, it was
very difficult to do selfemployed, to show the income to
refinance, but I just refinancedafter a year and a half in this
house to a HELOC, and now my 30year mortgage is going down to

(01:02:58):
8.3 years, if I just stay ontrack with what I'm doing. So
and I'm not gonna get into it,since you already and it's
liquid all the time, that's whatI I'm trying to tell all my
friends, and they're like, Well,I don't get it. And I said, I
get that. I did the wholecourse. I had to study for 40
hours on this. But I'm tellingyou, your money is liquid all
the time, so you can always takeit out,
but you have to have a mindsetshift, and you have to make sure
you're making more than youspend. But that

(01:03:19):
wasn't a mindset shift. That wasjust continuing to live the way
I was living. Way I was living,right? That's, well, you're
probably
physically, physicallyresponsible, yes, which makes
sense in that case, becauseevery time you get paid, it's
being swept over into theaccount, and it's driving down
that principle. And
so that's a whole weird thing toget into that's not drama
related, no. But, I mean, Jimhas been telling me about it for
years, I would say I just andthis company doing it, they're

(01:03:39):
like, we're not the only companydoing this. You don't need us to
do this. We just train you how.And I bought another thing. It
was $6,000 and I've already in ain a couple months, have already
but
to your point, rich drummersneed new drummers coming up.
Need to know this stuff. So
one thing Jim Riley was so bigon was opening a Roth. Ira and I
never did. And finally, at age40, I had gone through divorce,
bought my first house. Got outof debt, and I started the Roth,

(01:04:02):
and I don't have a ton in there,but yeah, I wish I would start
at 20, but 40 is not too late.I'm still gonna have a little
bit when I'm 65 or whatever. SoI'm so huge on telling younger
players, squirrel some stuffaway, yeah, and figure out
different ways to do it, likethe Roth is one cool way to do
it. And another thing is, Ibought my first little house, I
built that studio. I neverthought I'd remarry, and when I

(01:04:22):
met Amber and the kids andremarried, I was like, well, now
we got 25 people. We can't livein this little house. So, so
that's your studio, yeah, so Ihad to buy another house. I kept
the studio house, which wasalmost a miracle. It felt like
God really provided that. But IAirbnb the house on weekends,
and I use the studio Monday toThursday, and I lock it up. And
so renting it out two days everyweek, pays the mortgage and pays

(01:04:44):
all the utilities on it. Sosmart. So I own a second house.
That's probably eight minutesfor me. I manage it myself. I
manage it from the road. I usethe app I'm on there every day
changing stuff, and it's notthat much time, once you learn
how to do it. And then my wifeand I kind of split the
cleaning. She does all thecleaning when I'm. On. So that's
super nice, but we've just madeit work. And so that's also
newer. In the last year and ahalf of like, now I've got an

(01:05:06):
investment property on top ofthe other stuff that's really
smart. Yeah. I mean, do you evergo in there and it's like, it's
like a crime scene with, like,bodily fluids and stuff? No. And
I'm
always like, it's gonna happenone of these days, but you have
to have through Airbnb, you haveto raise your insurance on it.
And through the city, was sohard to get the permit there,
like they hate Airbnbs becausethey've messed with the economy
here. Yeah? And so you have tojump through all these hoops.

(01:05:27):
And it was like you have to havea million dollars insurance on
your property for that stufftoo. So we've had a few issues,
but nothing. Yeah. Well, thething that
a lot of people need tounderstand, especially young
people coming up, is thatthey're being sold the American
dream as home ownership. And asI've gotten older, it's like,
Well, I understand that, butuntil you have that mortgage

(01:05:49):
paid off, you don't own thathome. Because if you miss a
payment, they're going to remindyou real quick who owns it. And,
well, I'm going to pay it off.And, you know, do the Dave
Ramsey thing. Well, guess what?And you still have to pay taxes.
You still have to pay yourproperty taxes, and as long as
property taxes are in play, youdon't own shit. You do not own
anything you it was funnybecause somebody the other day

(01:06:11):
was telling me that they soldtheir house and they had to pay
capital gains taxes. And I'mlike, Are you freaking kidding
me? It's like they're gettingyou for everything. The only
thing you really own is theequity in the house, which the
all in one which what you'retalking about gives you access
to that's what you really onlyown, you know. But as long as
there's property taxes, whichare the most dastardly of taxes,
and I will say publicly,

(01:06:32):
but then they went up 33% inDavidson County,
right? That's the thing is that,you know, if you don't pay them,
but you're going to own yourhouse.
Mount Julie, it is
Wilson. Robert Wilson, yeah.
So, I mean, that's, you know,and working around that, and
getting the mindset of, like,what Grant Cardone talks about,
like, Look, if you're going togo into a property ownership,

(01:06:54):
then own multiple doors and rentthem out, yeah,
you know. But there is no
more safe, probably surefire,way to create equity Understood.
Then, then homeownersAbsolutely,
but a lot of the way it's beingsold is that you own your
property. No, you don't,
no, You never, truly just don'tmiss the payment. It's just,

(01:07:19):
just keep paying it.
But, you know, but that's thething, is that, like, again,
going back to my point, once youpay off the freaking mortgage,
you still got to pay, pay, makepayments on it, and you're not
even control of the rate. It'skind of, it's it's maddening. I
sure hope these, uh, rates comedown, because they might. I'm
going to refi like a mother.Maybe do the all in one, get

(01:07:40):
access. You want me to do it,but good, because you have a lot
of money, right? You'd save alot
of money. You pay it offquicker, and you'd also have
access to your equity if youever need it. Real quick. I'm
going to save over $400,000 ofwhat I would have paid on
interest on this house in 30years. That's the part that's
hard to grasp, how it's not likefake or, Oh
yeah, because, I mean, it takesfor in the amortization process,

(01:08:02):
exactly what it is the firstdecade they front
load the interest. It's
a wash. You're just paying, justlose your pain,
right? But what's the what's thecatch? There's got to be
something in it for them. There
is, and here's my best way ofunderstanding it. You might have
a better explanation, right? Thebank is getting your whole lump
sum because you're trying tokeep money in there, and that's
what keeps knocking the ratedown. They have your money the

(01:08:23):
whole time, so for 10 years, orwhatever amount of time, you're
putting all your funds in thereall the time. And they can
obviously use that for whatever.So they don't even sell your
your payment, because it's not amortgage, and they are
controlling more funds of yourmoney. It's just for a third of
the time. So they're making moreon it, and you're making more on
it. That's the best way Iunderstood
it. That's the trade off. Butthe thing is, is that you have

(01:08:44):
access to your equity, immediateaccess. That's
that's dangerous, because I gotmine for $370,000
and that's what the that wasfor. So I it paid off my
mortgage right away. But now I'msitting with liquid 370 in that
account I could pull out if Iwanted to buy a car. That's very
scary, yeah, but they said, aslong as you keep living the way
you are, you're fine, you justkeep knocking it down, yeah,

(01:09:06):
yeah, so you can buy your carand it's basically in the house,
yeah, yeah. You're payingyourself in
a way. Anyways, this is veeredgreatly from the drum stuff.
Now, you know,
but that's important. It is,yeah, I mean, but
people with experience, fastforward two months from now,
you're wearing all designerclothes, and you're driving a
Porsche,
yeah? And if you do that, you'regonna tank yourself just like

(01:09:27):
you would,
like Mercurio would be veryupset with you right now.
Oh, I'm just saying, I'm justsaying it that that's Porsche,
temptation, Porsche, Porsche,Porsche, Porsche. Yeah,
gotta say it, right?
Well, man, you're, you know,you're doing all the right
thing. I'm just, I'm justterribly impressed with, you
know, all the gigs you'rejuggling, and you say, Well, I'm
not on an a gig, but whateverthe gigs are, what if, whatever

(01:09:48):
they are, B plus is, it's, it'sall equals an A, because you
have a career in drumming andyou're providing for a family of
five,
well, family of six. Family six.Super. Thankful because for all
of it, but looking back like Iknow when I first met you, and
telling you, like you're one ofthose guys that I have so much
respect for doing this, becauseyes, you've played on big

(01:10:09):
records, unless, yes, you playfor big artists, but you've done
this for a career, for 30 years,or whatever you've done, yeah,
to juggle this, and you've donethe speaking engagements, you've
done the clinics, and you'veI've just always looked we're
still alive. I've looked at youhustling, like going. Lots of
people get to your level and belike, I do one thing, and that's
it. And you don't. You're alwaysworking, always. So you were one

(01:10:30):
of my for not being that mucholder than me. I was always
like, this is the kind of guy Iwant to do this, like, a career,
yeah. And some people love whatyou do, and some probably hate
it. And who cares? You're doingyour thing. Oh, I'd love to
hear some of the conversationswhen I leave the room. But, you
know, we're all, we all could betreated, you know, we if we all
heard those conversations,because it's just, you know,

(01:10:51):
it's not a good thing. Gossip isnot a good thing. It's very
detrimental as part of the, youknow, the human condition. Try
not to think about those things,because people are talking about
us, you know?
Well, that's the thing. You'vemade yourself a brand, and
that's what I love, and that'swhat irritates people, because
they'll be jealous like, I wishI would have done it rich did
2030, years ago. It's like,well, you didn't, and he did. So

(01:11:14):
this is
where we're a a long line ofpeople that have come on the
show and have paid homage toyou. Oh, I believe, because
that's, and that's, and there'sa reason for that, you know,
because we've had very intimateconversations and Jim and
friends for eight years. Andit's like, sometimes you, even
though you're you know whatyou've done, there's still a

(01:11:36):
chance of getting down aboutthings, yeah, stuff like that.
I'm like, Dude, you know you'veset out. I remember you said you
put it on a glossy business cardor a recipe card or something,
that what I want to do is have apositive impact on be a top call
drummer and have a positiveimpact on the people I meet.
Dude, you've done it, man, wejust got
to keep doing and you're doingit. That's
the thing. You've done it. And Imean, I

(01:11:58):
was, I was trying to look backto when we met, and I found a
picture of us at NAMM today,from like 2012 maybe something,
right before I moved toNashville, back to Nashville,
and I remember you and I goingto probably that year. We went
to lunch at just downtown. And Ijust remember you took the time
and I was we went to the PizzaPizza Pizza Kitchen. What's it

(01:12:21):
called over in green hills. Idon't know if it's still there.
Oh gosh, California Pizza, yes.Oh my. I don't know why I
remember that, but I justremember standing there talking
in the parking lot after andlooking back, it meant a lot to
me then, but looking at it now,and knowing how busy I am and
where I'm at in my career, andthinking like, you did that when
you were, like, already superestablished, I just was thinking
like, how much that meant.

(01:12:41):
I remember coming to that myhouse for the first time, like,
holy crap, he's actually cominghere. I never said it wasn't
like you were charging me, andit wasn't like you were sitting
there checking your it was justlike you were being real. He
gives you, He
gives you 100% of himself. Andthat's the thing is, is that you
did a clinic at Forex severalyears ago, and you were just

(01:13:01):
utterly astounded at how manypeople came out to see you,
yeah, and you were just, I'mlike, why don't you get this?
That was cool, you know? Andwhy? Why don't you understand
that these people see who youare and how good of a person and
beautiful soul that you are. Oh,thanks, Jim. Okay, am I close to
getting you to
tears so sweet? Well, you know,I mean, I, I am easily terrible.
You are terrible.

(01:13:22):
Yes, yeah, it's serious. Socoming in a great drummer is one
thing, playing all the music'sone thing connecting with
people. That's the skill set. Ijust that a lot of people don't
have love people. I went to apretty, relatively impromptu
drummer's luncheon the otherday, because you probably know
this kid, Jordan Arnold. He'sthis young kid in town. He kind
of plays like Tommy Lee. He'sgot like, he's got the big kick
drum and the three floor toms,and plays in a real energetic

(01:13:44):
style, and licks his sticks. Andhe stole some of my twirls, and
he's doing the thing. And heconnected with Greg Bissonette,
and Greg bissonettes Get him aDixon deal, like he's starting
to play, he's doing the thing.And he said, Hey, we should do a
drummer's lunch. And like, youknow, the ones I do on the first
Wednesday of every month over atthat, that rat trap Chinese
buffet, I got, I got to tell theguys, you got to change the

(01:14:07):
venue. But it's hard to find aplace where you could fit 30
drummers in, like a like a lastsupper style bike. So anyways,
he gets five or six guystogether, and we go to Martin's
on Elliston, and we sit down andwe're breaking bread and we're
cutting up. And for I know, ittwo and a half hours go by,

(01:14:28):
yeah, oh, my God, just I lovedrummers. Yeah, I love drummers.
Bass players don't do that.Guitar players don't do that.
Singers don't do that. Very
unique to our instrument thatlike brotherhood. You
go to the Music City drum show.And you see that culture a lot
of very helpful people. There'svery little ego. Yeah,
even that drummer's lunch. And Ialways miss it. I try to go,

(01:14:50):
like, once a year, but thatWednesday thing is the nicest
people, and it's, we have
to move the venue. I don't wantkung pao chicken served with a
side. Cockroach. It it'sdefinitely, it's
definitely rough. Let's move itto Franklin. Yeah, Cool Springs.
I just think
that, you know, if people werewilling to drive to Spring Hill,
the Martins here in Spring Hillhas a gigantic dining hall, and

(01:15:14):
we could break bread and just beloud. Let's do it, big, high
ceilings and so be
like, Hey, man, can I? Can I bea part of it? I'm not really a
working drummer, but I'm trying,dude,
you're a working everything.Yeah, you guys both have a work
ethic, serious work ethic, as doyou. Congratulations on
everything, buddy. Thank you.You did it. You came to
Nashville like you came here forcollege. You know you've worked

(01:15:35):
around this physical ailmentthat was very impressive to work
around that you know you'replaying through pain. You get
your degree, you go out west,you, you know, become a founding
member of a, you know, it's aniconic punk band now, man, you
know, it's like in the you'vechanged things 20 years. That's
amazing. Then you come backhere, you're doing all this
stuff, great.

(01:15:57):
Well, I hugely appreciate it.That means a lot. I i try to be
thankful every day and just keepgoing and try to go. What do we
do to keep this? Yeah, like, howdo we keep this afloat another
20 years? I don't know. That'steaching. That's
the recording playing locally,saving your money, all the
stuff, all in one. HELOC,
seriously, check it out,
guys, check it out. I
promise you. Give it a halfhour, it'll change your life.

(01:16:19):
It's
a different way to think aboutmortgages. You signed up for,
you paid good money to take theclass, to educate yourself,
to do that. Yeah, the quick theother quick story on is my
buddy, who's doing marketing forme, says his company in Franklin
small but check it out. Heexplained it to me in like five
minutes ago. It's too good to betrue, doesn't that's impossible.
I said it's got to be a gimmick.So I looked at the stuff online.
I called my dad. My dad's like,Mr. Financial just got it

(01:16:43):
together. His house is paid offretired. He didn't retire till
like 75 so he made sure he hadall these things in line. He's
super hard worker. He's been apastor my whole life, and just
now he just rides his Harley andhe's retired. So anyways, I call
the rev my dad, and I said,check this out. Do you think
this is crazy? He goes, Yeah,that's too good to be true.
That's can't be possible. Isaid, yeah, just look at the
YouTube video. So he calls methe next day. He goes, Well, I

(01:17:06):
ended up watching five hourslast night of videos about this.
And he goes, if my house was notpaid off, I would do this. You
need to look at this. I don'tknow if this is going to be
around forever or if this isgoing to change in our you know,
the way the laws work, but youneed to do this. So wow, I
bought the program, and the onlyreason I bought is because I
didn't know anybody else who'ddone it, which is crazy, like I
hadn't even talked to a singleperson who had. And they kept

(01:17:28):
saying, you don't need ourprogram. If you know how to do
this, we're just helping youthrough it, and that's how we
make our money. So I bought theprogram, did the whole course,
and and they said, we help youget a refinance on your home. If
we don't, we'll give you yourmoney back. That's how you
pay off your house in eightyears, as opposed to 30. Yeah,
it just said they average about
a third of the time based onwhat you're making, what you're
saving, and you have to have acredit score over 700 so if you

(01:17:51):
don't have a credit score over700 and you don't have 20%
equity in the house, you can'tdo it. Gotcha. But I had 20 and
my credit score was like 839, itwas crazy high this year. For
some even
have credit scores that I 839Yeah, I bet if I look right now,
it's at least 820 Whoa, yeah.Whoa, that's perfect, dude.
Anywho so good credit score and20% down, you can do it. But

(01:18:13):
refinancing self employed as amusician, just like buying a
house, super hard. Siri, Siriand Alexa
are gonna pick up on thispodcast episode, and you're
gonna get freaking inundated.Freaking inundated with credit
card offers.
Yeah. Well, what's your favoritecolor? Black, amazing. What
about your favorite food?
I I'm always a burger guy, but Ireally have loved barbecue

(01:18:36):
moving to the south. I didn'tgrow up with it. It wasn't a
thing. Well, that works
out great, because that's whatyou're eating on a country music
tour. Yeah, hey, guess what? Wegot the best barbecue you've
ever had in your life. It'susually not, though I know we
had been we had Ben Jackson inhere, and, you know, he spent
like, a decade touring, and he'slike, the best barbecue you've
ever had in your life. Every daysomeone claims it, you know. So,
the best barbecue in the countrywhere

(01:18:58):
I have a firm number one,
you know, my thing is, I justalways, no matter where I am, I
get the Texas Beef Brisket. Ilike the brisket. So when in
Texas, you know, yep, that'salways the thing. But as far as,
like, a brand, you know, I wasjust at Martin's pretty good.
Yeah, I like the brisket them,and Ed Lee's in town. I like Ed
Lee's brisket a little better. Ilike Martin's sides better.

(01:19:19):
Terry Black's, which is inAustin originally, and also in
Dallas, that is my favorite, thebrisket. But they have these
beef ribs that are like thisbig, that are like brisket on a
rib. I don't know it's likecrack,
though. So you told me one timeyou're kind of a foodie, kind
of,
I'm not like, I don't spend alot, but if we're like, this
week with Hawthorne, we playedin Vegas at the strat, sad that

(01:19:39):
we had dinner at the top of the,like, Space Needle looking
thing. I had $100 steak that Ididn't pay for. Like, I get to
do that as we do, but if I wereon a date, would I do that? No,
because I'm too cheap.
We ate a $60 steak this week.Yeah. What does $100 steaks
taste like?
Yeah, to me, I'll tell you, Iwas shocked, because I don't
think, I don't consider myselfto have. Like, a professional

(01:20:00):
palette of expensive food. And Iwas like, Is this going to be
better than, like, you know,going to Outback? Probably not,
because that's like, I'm morelike, like, for my birthday.
Last night, my wife and I wentto Longhorn, and it was
fantastic. Your
birthday yesterday. Yeah, youjust turned 44 Yeah, yesterday.
Happy birthday. So that's
a great meal for me. This was,like, Australian beef or

(01:20:21):
something, you know, it was likesomething, and they had, they
had wagyu, and they had, like,three or four different kinds,
and I was just, like, $92 for asteak. That seems steep, and I
had it, and the guys were alllooking at me because they all
have more expensive taste, andthey have all been in this,
members of this band for a longtime, and just financially, in a
different place than I am,different tax bracket, yeah, and
I'm the hired gun guy, so I tryto, I go, guys, that's literally

(01:20:44):
the best steak I've ever had. So
for 92 bucks, it better Itbetter be, yeah, all I can say,
it was great.
Now, what about a
drink? I forget if you do thecocktail thing, every once in a
while, I have never had a drinkin my life. I think I remember
hearing that I am addictedhighly to Diet Coke, and I'm
very opinionated about dietcoke, but I don't drink alcohol
or coffee, which is reallyaspartame. Yeah,

(01:21:06):
my business partner, he'll drinkDiet Coke, no coffee, no
nothing,
yeah. So I'm very big on thefountain being my favorite. And
I fight with people about this alot because, like, a gas station
is terrible. And I'm like, Iagree you can't beat McDonald's
diet coke out of the fountain,or Coke, for
that matter, it's, it's perfectbecause of the carbonation,
yes, and there's a shipped cold,it's the only one that comes in

(01:21:26):
cold canisters that'srefrigerated, and they have
their own. It's just slightlydifferent than everywhere
else now. But you do know thataspartame is, like, terrible,
terrible. I agree,
yeah, and it may be my downfall,but everybody's got something
in. Like, if that's what killsme, I love
it. So was that, like, like,your the rev coming into your
influence in your life, where hewas like, Don't ever take a sip
of No. And my
parents didn't drink when I wasa kid. Like, they'll drink wine.

(01:21:49):
Now, I definitely grew up inthat 90s Christian Era of like,
alcohol is the devil kind ofthing. But now it's really not.
I just chose not to. Till 21 Iwas like, and then I started
touring that band. I'm like, I'mlike, I'm not going to do drugs
and I'm not going to drink orsmoke, because I want to be
different for kids. Like, that'spart of my example as a
Christian, but also as, like, aprofessional, this is how I'm

(01:22:09):
going to be, yeah. And what'sfunny 20 years later, like,
that's one of the biggestreasons Hawthorne Heights,
besides us being friends,they're like, we're kind of a
sober band, and so we're alittle boring on the road. We
just don't want somebody that'sa wild card. They all got sober,
yeah? And they were just never abig drinking band, like they'll
have a cocktail or whatever,like you're talking about, but,
I mean, there's not hard liquoron the bus. And we're touring
with bands who are like, youknow, some are doing cocaine

(01:22:30):
every night, and it's just stillliving it like it's the rock
stars you can't do that. Andwith, yeah, and we're the dudes
who are like, well, you're like,Rush touring, because that's
kind of what it felt like so butwe just, guys would be
in their hotel rooms, like,reading books, yeah, kisses,
having, like, orgies, and we'rejust,
and that was another thing. Likemarried family guys, like, we

(01:22:50):
just, this is how we operate.We're a business. If you put the
business first, it's alwaysgonna have a better chance to
succeed than if you're doingstuff. So that's kind of the
thing. It's not like I'm againstdrinking. And if we were at
dinner and my wife had a drink,like, Great, I'm on board. I
always kind of want to try, butthen I go, I've come this far. I
might as well just like, writeout my things. Why, in my 40s,

(01:23:11):
start drinking, right?Especially because I'm very
addictive with drinksspecifically, yeah, like, if I
had a Diet Coke here that wasthis big, it'd be done, like,
I'd already have it down. Okay,
well, I wish we I think we gotsome in there. We gotta send you
on your way with some aspartame,right? So, so Jim has got a new
series called The
Deep five. The depressing fivewas that we're going, what's
they could be depressing, butlet's not do that.

(01:23:35):
Okay, so what is wrong? Whatsounds right
in the world, anywhere,anything. What's
wrong? That sounds right? Well,very deep question. You could
pass on things too. You're like,No, I'm
trying to think. Like, I don'teven understand what we're I
don't like that one. Jim,
we'll pass hard pass. Whatanimal could be cutest if scaled

(01:23:55):
down to the size of a cat?
Oh, these are just like, random,so stupid.
I mean, like a lion or a leopardor cheetah or something.
Hey, we'll do one more thought.
There has to be five, if they'regood questions. Yeah,
I'm trying to find one.
What's wrong when you are old,what do you think children will

(01:24:18):
ask you to tell stories aboutnice,
either what it was like beforecell phones or
what it was like beforecomputers. Yeah,
I've got mail, yeah, rememberthat the dial up sound for AOL,
we didn't
even have, like, a familycomputer in our house? Yeah? Um,

(01:24:39):
maybe what it was like when wewere driving our own cars. Who
knows? Oh, yeah,
what do you think? Do aliensexist?
I don't believe aliens exist,no. But as a spiritual person, I
definitely believe in angels anddemons. That's a whole nother
conversation. I would sayprobably, when people see
aliens, it probably is aphysical thing. Man, if.

(01:25:00):
Testing. It's somethingspiritual. That's probably a
demon that they're thinking isan alien, my best,
yeah, like Constantine. They'regoing to make a follow up to
Constantine, really. Yeah. Have
you seen the movie? Signs, Oh,yeah. Phoenix with the Mel
Gibson
swing away, Maris, I forgot whyPhoenix was in it. I just think
of Mel Gibson, yeah, in
the scene where, you know,because Mel Gibson plays a

(01:25:22):
character who walked away fromthe cloth because his wife got
killed. And, man,
I haven't seen that in like, 23
it's a really deep movie, yeah,and, you know, it's almost like,
to your point, the aliens thatyou see are almost demonic, and
at one point, his kid, he'strying to console his kids
because he's having an asthmaattack and he doesn't have his

(01:25:44):
medicine, yeah, and at one pointyou see him, he just gets in his
motors. He starts going, I hateyou. Remember that part where
he's in the dark basement andstuff like that? Who do you
think he's talking to?
That's really interesting,right? But who was
he? Because I think at thatpoint, you know, a lot of the
things that were coming tofruition were prophecies that

(01:26:07):
were given to his wife, and he'sstarting to make the he's
putting two and two together. Ihonestly think he's talking to
Satan.
You know, I hate you. Why are
you putting like you could beconstrued as him talking to God?
Because he walked away from,right, the spirituality. And
then he really puts it together.When the alien tries to point
gas poison, the kid, yes, andhis lungs were closed. And he

(01:26:29):
says, you know, his lungs wereclosed so the poison didn't get
in. He's chanting it over andover and over, and all of a
sudden, this kid, it's like afreaking weepy moment. I
just got, I need to watch. Ijust got goose bumps because M
Night can write a script, andthey're not all made. Sometimes
he knocks them out of theballpark. And, you know, I mean,
like, I like Lady in the Water.I like signs. I like what was

(01:26:51):
the sixth sense? The town was
that one? No, the
village, the village, thevillage.
Yeah, it was pretty heavy, too.Kurt,
we went to go see that. Me. Kurtand tell he went to go see that.
And Kurt was like, I saw thatcoming a mile away. You know
what I mean, that they wereisolated, the ending, the twist.
Yeah, you know, I could write acountry song, probably with

(01:27:13):
the twist he got. He was
good at the twist, but no, butsigns, fantastic. I've, we've
watched
that enough, where I've analyzedit and done some research
online, where it's just like,you know, I don't think he's
talking to
God. I'll have to go back. Ijust don't even remember it that
well, what to do a reprisal. Ijust remember the scary seat of
the alien walking by, right ontothe childhood of everything.

(01:27:36):
Yeah,
dude. Well, you know, Do aliensexist? Check this out. If you
have ever seen an octopus?You're like, this cannot be
real, yeah. This is the mostunique creature I have ever
seen.
I love it. You know, there wasactually in the try that podcast
which I produce, yes, Jim NeilThrasher kind of went on a

(01:27:59):
little bit of a rant. And hewent on this very impassioned
take on being out in a
tree stand waiting for to killsomething, yeah. And he says, he
says, if
you just come out and witness,you know, going from 3am to six,
7am in the morning, and you'resitting there and everything's

(01:28:19):
coming alive, althougheverything's waking up, yeah.
And he says, When you see that,he goes, how could you not
believe? How could you notbelieve that there's a supreme
intelligence that programmed allthis? Yes. And it's like, you
know, it's as simple as that. Tome, it
was just, it's this, you know,getting up early. I'm trying to

(01:28:42):
do it way more in my lateryears, because the morning time
is magical, like our bodies aresupposed to be aligned with
sunrise and sunset, and we'resupposed to be more locked into
the Earth's rhythms and stuff.It's the most peaceful time. You
get up and you stretch and youhydrate, and you get some
vitamin D right away, and thenyou pour your coffee, and then

(01:29:04):
the birds are chirping, and it'sjust like you feel like anything
is possible, as opposed to,like, sleeping into, like, 1030
and you're like, Oh, my God, I'mbehind, and I got a million
things to do, and then the daygets away from you. You know,
I just suck because I'm on thedifferent time, like I'm more
get up at 10, yeah, but three orfour nights a week, I might be
working till but you got to getyour three in the morning. Got

(01:29:24):
it
again, they're saying that sevenhours is the new magical number,
right? It's divine too. Yeah?Seven is like seven at least
seven. I mean, if you can geteight nice,
I can't do well on less thanthat. I wish. I need to get
better about the morning things,especially as a parent. People
like, how do you sleep? I'mlike, I'm not sleeping in. I'm
working downtown till 3am acouple nights a week, and then

(01:29:46):
that messes up my schedule forthe week. Then you get to bed at
four, yeah? It's like, if you'regetting to bed at four, you're
not going to wake up before 10or
11. You just because you're onlygetting six hours sleep if you
wake up, and that's if you getthe sack as soon as you get
home. Yeah. But after I played agig, I'm on a high. Like, the
earliest I can get to bed on theroad would be 1am at the
earliest, because we get offstage at 11. I'm drenched in

(01:30:08):
sweat. Yeah, I got to take ashower. I want to hug my
bandmates. Might have a lightsnack. And then I realized, ramp
down I got, I got a that's thebattle to the food after
well, hopefully it's like, it'slike the Chick fil A nuggets.
And you're like, This is notbad, just, it's just the
breading, you know? So you dothat, and you try not to have
the bread, and
they bring all the pizza, andyou're like, I'd rather not. But

(01:30:29):
then if there, if there's burgerand fries, I'm just like, well,
I guess, you know, we do with
the pizza for us. Pizza night isSaturday night when we're going
home on a run. Okay? It's alwaysthe last night of a run. So if
we have a lot, if we have a gigon a Sunday night, we're getting
pizza. Yeah, nice, yeah. What agreat chat. Do you got? Do you
have a.com
I don't. And I did forever. Imean, like 2000 to, like 2015 I

(01:30:54):
did. And then I just was, like,nobody's really using a website.
I should probably do it again,
but, but it was the best way forpeople to get in touch. Super
easy on Instagram,
which is just that dango empire.Same with my Facebook. I kind of
dabble in tick tock, meaning,like I set up a page, but I
don't really use it. But likeall, if you find dango empire, I
will get back. I
love the Empire thing. When?When did that come it's really

(01:31:16):
stupid light bulb moment.
It was like I was with theChristian artist named Chris
rice back in the day, one of myfirst gigs, and I was just, you
know, dango, and he's and Istarted doing dango T shirts
kind of as a joke that had kindof my logo on him. And so he
would carry my bag of shirtsaround. He's like, we'll just
call this the Empire. And he'slike, you're dango empire. And I
don't know why it stuck, but Iwas trying to come up with a

(01:31:37):
website name for the.com anddango was taken, and it's a
Japanese dumpling, so youcouldn't get anything close to
dango. And I was going to do fanof dango. So it was like,
Fandango. We're like, well, itcould be a lawsuit, if it does
anything. So it just was dangoempire. Was the only thing that
didn't. Oh, and we had dangoonline, but it looked like
dangoon line.
Yeah, so interesting. Yeah. So Ithink it's a good idea. Yeah, I

(01:31:57):
just went with
dango empire. It's not my name.It's not part of my name. I
don't want to be called dangoempire, just to clarify any of
that, but my name's dangoKellen, and I don't because
dango is unique enough. I justsay dango.
You're the only dango. I knowit's usually because that, like,
are you thinking it's like anIrish name or, like a no,
that's actually a name I got incollege as a nickname. Oh, since

(01:32:19):
you're asking, I'll give thequick story there. Yes, two of
us in a punk band when I was afreshman had the same name. He
started calling me dango. It wasjust like an something we came
up with as a joke by the secondyear at Belmont. I mean,
professors, everybody would callme that. So before I graduated,
it was just dango, nothing else.You know, my senior recital had
my posters were dango atBelmont. Then I moved to

(01:32:41):
Seattle, joined this punk band.I get my first drum stick deal.
I'm putting dango on my sticks.I had it on the front of my
drums. I was selling the Tshirts. And so by that point,
it's like, well, I'm not goingto go buy anything else. That's
what I'm credited as on everyrecord I've ever played on. So I
eventually just legally addedbecause like, well, this is
stupid. If I ever get marriedand they call me, I don't tell
anybody. No, it's biblical. Butwhy are you prodding? Huh?

(01:33:06):
It's a fair question. Well,
he told me to go down rabbithole, right? So I never went to
podcasting school, yeah? So
I've just stuck with dango. It'seasy to remember. It's like, oh
yeah, the ball drummer, dango.And now there's a lot of balls.
Biblical name, Abraham,
Jacob. It's Old Testament.You'll hit it if you keep Moses
only
like 5000 names to get there.
Wow, just a few. All right.Well, Dan goes, Hey, just like

(01:33:27):
show you the power of nicknames.They spread like wildfire. Well,
and
if you don't make it yourself,if it happens and you can't
change it like teachers, nobodyknew me as anything else, so
mine in the renowned bandConnecticut white bread, I was
known as Gilly. How about that?You didn't know that? Did you
what? No, I
I told Jimmy, can't mentionConnecticut white bread in every

(01:33:48):
episode. Yes, he has to do everyother episode. And I did. Yeah,
this was a great chat. So peopleshould look you up at at dango
empire. Sure. That would bewonderful on the socials, for
lessons, for sessions. Go seehim. Play around Broadway. Go
see him on tour. HawthorneHeights, Amber Pacific. Scott

(01:34:08):
staff, doing it all, man. Thanksfor coming. Thank you
so much. An honor, seriously, tobe here. And I'm so glad you
could make honor to have you. IfI can help anybody else in their
journey, that's part of my goal.So your younger guys new to
town, I'm like, I'll always maketime. If they hit me up, you're
doing
manifold. That's right. Thanks,Jim
and to all the listeners, thankyou for watching and listening.

(01:34:29):
Be sure to do me a favor. Greatshow. Give us five star rating.
Leave us a nice comment. Spreadthe word. We'd love it. We'll
see you next time. Thanks,Tango, Thanks, Jim.
This has been the rich Redmondshow. Subscribe, rate and follow
along at rich redmond.comforward, slash podcasts. You.

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Dango Cellan: Faith, Hustle, and the Nashville Way :: Ep 224 The Rich Redmond Show

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