April 18, 2025 • 88 mins
Join Rich Redmond as he sits down with Gerald Ware, a multi-talented musician, Navy submarine veteran, and PhD holder. Highlights include:
[0:00-0:15] Musical Influences: Gerald shares stories about bassist Joseph "Lucky" Scott
[0:20-0:35] Musical Philosophy: Treating songs like relationships
[0:45-1:00] Career Journey: From Navy submarine service to architecture and drumming
[1:15-1:30] Comedians and Creativity: Discussion of Dave Chappelle and comedy
[2:00-2:15] Drumming Insights: The importance of musical feel over technical speed
[2:30-2:45] Personal Life: 25 years of marriage and raising three children
[3:00-3:15] Future Plans: Traveling and enjoying life as empty nesters
A fascinating conversation exploring music, service, creativity, and personal growth with a drummer who's much more than just a musician.
Follow Rich:
@richredmond
www.richredmond.com
Jim McCarthy is the quintessential Blue Collar Voice Guy. Honing his craft since 1996 with radio stations in Illinois, South Carolina, Connecticut, New York, Las Vegas and Nashville, Jim has voiced well over 10,000 pieces since and garnered an ear for audio production which he now uses for various podcasts, commercials and promos. Jim is also an accomplished video producer, content creator, writer and overall entrepreneur.
Follow Jim:
@jimmccarthy
www.jmvos.com
The Rich Redmond Show is produced by It's Your Show dot Co
www.itsyourshow.co
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
People used to find out that I knew lucky as a kid, and
(00:03):
kind of grew up with Lucky, areally young drummer, learning
from this guy named Joseph luckyScott, and I would have bass
players find me on the internetand call me, what was it like,
and what was it like to playwith lucky, and ask me, what was
he using to get that sound forsuch and so, oh my god. And I'm
like, Dude, I do not know. Firstoff, I wouldn't have known
(00:24):
because I was a little kid, butI used to actually see when
Lucky was out in public playingbass. There would be times when
he would get into certainsections and songs and he would
turn away so people couldn't seefrom the audience, because he
didn't want other bass playersto see what he
was doing. This is the richRedmond show.
(00:46):
Songs are like relationships. Asong's like a woman. If you're
in a really good relationshipwith a woman, you can't tell her
what you want her to be. Youcan't force her to be what you
want her to be. You can respondto her. You can try to interpret
what she says back to her. Ithink I hear you saying this,
(01:06):
yada yada, yada yada. You cantry to kind of match her, her
timbre, her her, her mood, orwhatever. But the best thing
that you can do, honestly islisten, and don't ever try to
force yourself on a song. Thesong will tell you what it wants
to be nice. And I've taken thatwith me, not just with music,
with everything.
(01:26):
So just open yourself up to theuniverse, and the universe will
tell you,
it'll lead you just, just behonest.
It's how the Marketplace is. ButI got a question for you, and
it's, and it's a very heavyquestion, okay, oh, if peanut
butter wasn't called peanutbutter, what would it be called?
It'd
be nut butter, nut butter, peabutter.
(01:47):
You can make butter out ofpeanuts.
Yeah, it's amazing. You know,how they actually do that. Do
you ever try ever make your ownpeanut butter? Oh, it's
exhausting. No, it's not. You doit at Trader Joe's. You pour the
things and you get to, you know,just
get a food processor and somepeanuts. It's all you need,
yeah, and it's super fresh. It'sfresh and amazing. Wow. Put it
on some bread, and now we'reinto the podcast. See,
(02:09):
this is what happens, very muchtrying to trick us into you
know, it's all the latest andgreatest stuff in in podcasting.
Yeah, now, but here we are. Herewe are having a great
conversation with our friendGerald wear. Now, let me tell
you about Gerald. We met in 2012This is 13 years ago, at a place
called the Rutledge that place,of course, progress in
(02:30):
Nashville. I think it's aMexican restaurant, it's a
hotel, it's something. Butanyways, it was a great night. I
think I was playing with rich.Eckhart. Rich was the guitar
player for Toby Keith for along, long long time, but he put
out this kind of like solofusion project. And then after
the show, I meet this very niceyoung man who is also a
musician, a consultant, a socialscientist, a researcher, a life
(02:51):
and career coach, a speaker anda proud US Navy submarine
veteran, yes, hailing fromChattanooga, Tennessee. This is
our friend, Gerald Weir. Thanksfor coming on
the show, man, thanks for havingme, dude, it's an honor. I
almost feel somewhat unqualifiedto sit here. No,
you. Well, the thing is, as Isaid,
a lot more I'm far lessqualified than anybody that sat
(03:12):
here.
Well, the thing, the commonthing, is that we all have a
love of music, drumming, rhythm.Also, you know you love we talk
over the years about success andmotivation and why we do things,
what inspires people, and you'reprobably will be the only
drummer we ever have on thisshow that has a PhD. So I
(03:33):
thought it would make for aninteresting conversation,
because you're a very evolvedhuman that has got a lot of
depth and interests. You knowwhat I mean? Because so drummers
are, you know, the drummer joke,you know? How do you know when
the stage is level? We all knowthat one get ready with the
splash symbol, Jim, the stage iseven that is when the drummer
(03:53):
drools out of both sides of hismouth. Yes,
okay, okay, yeah, never heardthat. But okay.
But I mean, originally from yourDetroit. You're from Detroit,
but you kind of grew up inChattanooga. You still live in
Chattanooga, keep a place inNashville. So smart, and I met
you as a drummer, and then asthe onion got peeled, I realized
that you did all these otherthings. And over the years,
(04:15):
you'd reach out to me. You'relike, Hey, would you answer this
questionnaire for my paper? AndI'd be like, This is great.
Somebody cares about what Ithink about for an academic
paper.
Well, but you're always graciousenough to answer the phone. And
honestly, you know, sometimesyou can tell what you're getting
when you first meet somebody.Yeah, honestly, full disclosure,
that night when we met at theRutledge that was literally the
(04:38):
first night I was in Nashville.That
is cool. That was a great kindof watering hole, you know,
networking opportunity for afirst night in town. Because
some people could just findthemselves at, oh, I'm at
tootsies. I heard about it. Iget it, yeah, you know. But I
mean, that was a, that was acool room,
yeah, Sean O'Brien, who actuallyplayed bass with you guys that
night, yeah, I knew him fromhigh school, but that was
(04:58):
actually the first night I wasactually out in. Nashville, but,
but my point in saying is, is,when you meet somebody, you can
tell sometimes if there's moreto them than just what you see.
Yeah, and you know, not, nottrying to be over flattering
here, but honestly, Dude, thatwas pretty, pretty, pretty. I
mean, it was hard to see thatyou were that kind of person.
(05:18):
Oh, man. And then the more Ilearned about you, and just kind
of what you did and how you didit. It just, it pretty much was
what I thought. It
was great. The last probably 10guests that we've had on, yeah,
I've sang your praises. Oh, I
love it. Well, people, peoplelove to hear their name. People
(05:40):
love
you listen to his humility. Imean, people, people love to
tell stories. Well, they buy outa big clinic at forks, and I
packed the house. I didn'tanticipate that.
Wow, it's not hard to pack out.I mean, there's
a there's not a lot already. Icouldn't do it. I couldn't pack
I don't think
anybody's gonna come see JimMcCarthy's jump drum clinic. I
(06:02):
drunk? Okay? Not a lot of guyscan do
I think after everyone sees youat May 28 with the Huey Lewis
tribute band at City winery,I'll be
there. Yeah? Cigarette lighterin hand. Nice.
I'll keep the fires burned.Yeah.
God,
hey, Boon got buys you houses,right? So, so this bass player
(06:25):
was, you know, Joseph Scott,Joseph lucky. Why'd they call
him lucky?
You know, I never asked himthat, yeah, and it was, it was
always interesting that he woulddo that was his nickname. But I
don't, I don't know, you know,it was one of those things
where, you know, here's this guywho's from Chattanooga playing
in Curtis Mayfield. Mayfield'sband, as a matter of fact, if
you want to see what he lookedlike, because he's passed away,
now, go look up the movieSuperfly. He's in Superfly, the
(06:49):
band that's that's CurtisMayfield's band. That's Joseph
lucky Scott playing bass dude. Iused to people used to find out
that I knew lucky as a kid, andkind of grew up with Lucky, a
really young drummer, learningfrom this guy named Joseph lucky
Scott, and I would have bassplayers find me on the internet,
yeah, and call me, what was itlike, and what was it like to
(07:12):
play with lucky and ask me, whatwas he using to get that sound
for such and so, oh my god. AndI'm like, Dude, I do not know.
First off, I wouldn't have knownbecause I was a little kid, but
I used to actually see whenLucky was out in public playing
bass. There will be times whenhe would get into certain
sections and songs and he wouldturn away so people couldn't see
him from the audience, becausehe didn't want other bass
(07:32):
players to see what he wasdoing. Didn't
do that in the early days.Didn't Eddie Van Halen do that
in the early days. Or somebodywould turn their back to the
audience so they couldn't see.
I don't know. I thought Eddiewas, he kind of had, like, the
showmanship was kind of bakedinto himself.
It could have been Stevie vi itcould have been, well, I heard
that story, but we were talkingoff camera, and so you were
(07:54):
lucky enough to get some like,like, musical coaching as a very
young person with this bassplayer. And what did he tell
you? Well,
he said that you know the bestthing that you can you can learn
and really just kind of take theheart about music. It doesn't
matter what instrument you play,if you sing, if you play,
whatever it is, is make sure youunderstand that it's a
relationship, specifically, in alot of ways. I mean, you're
(08:14):
having a relationship with thetech guys. You're having a
relationship with the other guyson the stage. You're having a
relationship with the audience,the production guys, but, but
really important, you're havinga relationship with the audience
because you want to make thatconnection. That's pretty much
to a large degree why you'redoing it. Because you want to
connect with people, but, butyou need to know that the most
important relationship is therelationship you're having with
(08:37):
the song and how to handle it,how to treat it. You don't abuse
it. You don't abuse it. Youdon't tell it what you want it
to be. You don't force yourselfon it. In a lot of ways, a lot
of cases, the song tells youwhat it wants to be. I'm like
anybody else, dude. I have a Ican have a pretty large ego, and
I want to come in, I want to, Iwant to do journal on this
thing, dude. But you can alwaysdo that. So you got to find a
(08:58):
place to where. What does thesong want? What does this gig
need? And you humble yourselfand you do it, but, but that
song is, honestly, it's like awoman or a man, or whatever you
know, but you have whateveryou're into, yeah, you have to,
you have to, you have to, youhave to honor it, yeah, and not
force yourself on it. That thesong, especially if it's a great
tune, it'll tell you what itwants to be. He'll tell you what
(09:21):
it is.
Well, you're a great all aroundplayer. You recently sent me a
video of you playing a songcalled peace accord and, man,
you got it all that popping andcracking, snare, that back beat,
the power, the chops,musicality, all the stuff,
man, you know, well, you know, Isent that to you. I sent that to
a lot of people, actually, youknow, sometimes I'll just like,
(09:42):
send a song to people that Ilike, and sometimes it's not
even really a fully formed idea,but you try to have the
production there, but not, nottoo much, not trying to go
overboard with production, butyou send things that you like to
people, because this issomething from your heart. It's
not something that you're tryingto sell, per se. But again, man,
everything. That we do,especially as musicians or any
(10:02):
other field for that matter,it's people, you know, we want
to make those connections. Wewant to remake those
connections. And so you send itout there, you just put it out
there, man, and you believe init. And sometimes it has wards,
and sometimes it's a little morepolished than others, but you
just
want to share it. That's nice.And is that your home studio?
Here it is,
it is nice. It is, well, it's myhome studio in Chattanooga.
(10:23):
Chattanooga, I don't have theroom here, here, yeah, but,
yeah, it's my home studio inChattanooga. Like,
I like that. You're, you're kindof, like, you're kind of BI
coastal, man, you guys living intwo cities, man, you know, my
wife is very gracious. That isawesome. Well, how long you
crazy kids been together? Andhow did you
I'm gonna date myself a littlebit here, dude, my we've been
married 25 years. Yeah, and weactually met at church. My
(10:44):
sister knew her before I did,and they're probably not gonna
remember this, but my sister waslike, hey, you know I like,
there's someone I really likefor you to meet. And I've always
been that dude that I don't likebeing set up. I don't like the
setup and I resisted it for awhile, and then somehow,
someway, we just kind of gotinto contact with each other,
and I didn't call her for like,three, yeah, and then one day I
(11:07):
did. And then here we are, 25why'd you call Yeah? I saw her
again, and maybe I was just in adifferent place. But I think
maybe my eyes were just workingdifferently that day. Not that I
didn't think she was beautifulwhen I first saw her. I don't
know. Maybe I just wasn't at aplace where I was going to be
well, I was receptive. And so Isaw her again, I was like, oh,
(11:28):
was there something about herthat that made you like, you
know, I have a feeling aboutthis,
yeah, and it's gonna sound kindof weird, but I mean, I was like
any other single young dude youdate around, you do what, you
know, you do your thing, orwhatever. But I really from from
my wife. I really just got womanfrom her. If that makes, I don't
know if that makes total sense,yeah, yeah. She just, this is a
(11:50):
this is a woman through andthrough, yeah, through and
through. This is a woman. That'sexactly how I felt about my
wife. Awesome. So I'm not alonein it, yeah, it's a beautiful
thing. It really is. I mean, youjust for me, very frightening,
yeah, very frightening at first,because you're not in control,
you're not in control, and youjust kind of following yourself
down this trail. But yeah, 25years, she's never come into
(12:13):
conflict with me and music or meand anything else. She knows
she's first, but music does havea special Yes, you guys,
did you guys make the babies? We
three, two sons and a daughter.Nice. Yeah, we have a daughter
who's actually graduating fromhigh school this year. She's
going off to college, so we willbe officially empty nesters.
Yeah, and we can do some thingsthat we'd like to do. I'd like
(12:34):
to say I'd like to spend moremoney on myself in my studio.
But,
well, what's not until we getcollege over travel
or anything, yeah? Like, I'mcurious, because I'm kind of
getting there myself,
you know, yeah, I've traveledaround a lot. My wife, not so
much. So there are a lot ofplaces I like to take her that
she's never been. So travelingis definitely one.
What are some of those bucketlist places? Like, are we
(12:55):
talking like? We're going like,like, corrupt, you know,
Madagascar,
you know, Fiji would bewonderful. Italy's gonna be it's
gonna happen this summer. Yougotta have Italy's gonna happen
this summer. Are you guys gonnado Rome and all the stuff? Well,
we talked about doing the grandtour, but to do the grand tour,
right, you really need a coupleof months. I don't think that's
gonna happen. But you know, mydaughter's gonna study
(13:18):
architecture as well, so it'sgonna be great to kind of go
around and see some of thechurches and just some of those
really, really old places thateverybody sees
on how did they do that stuffwithout machinery the human
mind, dude is, I mean, just likeJurassic Park. You probably
heard this before. Life finds away. Life will find a way, or
it's aliens, or it's aliens, Idon't know, but life will find a
(13:42):
way. But so we're going to dosome of that stuff and just
check some stuff off the list,and just travel around and just
enjoy each other, because it's anew, it's a new it's a new
chapter in our life. Weliterally were pregnant three
months after we said I do. So webasically have had no life,
yeah, without
so, I mean, I always equate thatto those kids that we felt bad
(14:04):
for in high school who, like,you know, all of a sudden
they're 1718, and she'spregnant, you know, and like, oh
my gosh, your life is ruined,and blah, blah, blah, and then
all of a sudden they just kindof get married, they forge their
way through it, And by the timethey're in their 40s, they're
done, and they have resources.Yeah, Jim is
(14:26):
saying it could be a young man,young person's game, right? You
have the energy, right?
You have the energy, theresource, which is true, it
parenting takes a lot of energy,physically, emotionally,
mentally, it does. I
really don't know how you guysdo it. I i Jim asked me, because
I always say, Yeah, you know, Inever did it. I never did it. I
you know, I never did it.
The funny thing is, is thatyou'd kind of late. You
(14:48):
mentioned rich in the beginningthat he took your phone calls,
which is the same story for me.He just kept on taking my phone
calls, and I one time, I think,texted you. So we were about to
have our second child, and Ireached out to rich via text.
I'm like, Hey, Courtney, candrop at any moment. Do you mind
(15:09):
if we have you on the list towatch Cami? Cami, at the time
was like, 1617, months old, wow.And he's like, did I call you
with them? Now she's in college.I know. But the funny thing is,
you were willing to do it, ah,see.
And the fact that you not onlyknew it, but not but not only is
(15:30):
it wonderful that you that youwould call, well, like I said,
sometimes you just, you justknow a good apple when you meet
him, yeah, but, but the factthat not only would he take your
calls being the guy that he is,but but him being the kind of
guy that you would trust enoughto call Would would you take my
little baby? Yeah, while I go dothis. I mean, it speaks volumes.
I was told I was totally messingI
mean, I'm afraid of the softspot on the skull, you know, I
(15:53):
was totally messing
with him. I just wanted to seehow he'd react. He would do he I
literally, it was a call. Iremember here. You were just No,
you were literally like, youknow, I probably could. I don't
have too much going on, so I andI'm like, Dude, I'm totally
messing with you right now. Wow.You were thinking, Can I
(16:16):
accommodate this? I probablycan, yeah, wow, amazing. I
didn't intend for him. I barelyknew you a year at that. Oh,
man,
yeah, but it's okay. It's okay.We're still friends all these
years later, I think you could
have pulled it off, though.
Let's make him reallyuncomfortable this episode and
just talk nothing about rich andlike, completely pour it on. The
world is
riches. The world is riches.Riches. World. I'm telling
(16:38):
you what. So you studyarchitecture, and it runs in the
blood.
Well, maybe, maybe not. We. Itold her that, you know, if at
any time, if you decide youdon't want to do this, walk away
from it. Yeah, because it is,and I'm not saying this because,
because I studied architecture,it is a very labor intensive
degree all night because allnighters, there's a lot of
(17:00):
things you have to know. Whatyou have to learn. Because it's
not just, can you draw well,it's, how does this wall stand
structural? You understanddeflection? Do you understand
moment? It's engineering. Do youunderstand compression? And
then, how do you make that lookgood? And while at the same
time, don't spend too much ofthe client's money, and yeah, so
(17:21):
it's, it can be a hall, yeah?Yeah,
interesting, yeah. Because,like, you know, when you get
the, you know, you got thesecookie cutter neighborhoods, now
we're like, there's maybe, likethree designs, and they'll put
up like 200 homes, yeah. Howdoes that work? This is called
Spring Hill. Does this home?Does this home builder come in
and, like, they hire, like, astaff architect to design those
(17:41):
three buildings. Developers
are a little different.Developers generally do those.
They just, you know, again, it'sand there's nothing wrong with
this. Everybody's in thebusiness to make money, and
variety sometimes doesn't offeritself very well to creativity.
Or the lack of variety, yeah,doesn't offer itself very well
to creativity. And so adeveloper, you know, you want to
make as much money as you can.So you have these, these basic
(18:03):
formats, these basic floor plansthat you have, of course, you
massage them a little bit. Yougive people the the notion that
they can make some choices aboutwhat they're getting. And in
truth, that is the case. I mean,you get to pick your finishes.
You get to pick your doorknobs.You get to pick your gold,
silver. Yeah, you get to pickhow much you want to spend on
this. I'm gonna spend in that,but it's still basically the
same general two or threeformats as what you're going to
(18:24):
get is for sports floor plan.And that has its place. Yeah,
that does. But, you know, youget, you get some of these guys
who get to design houses fromthe ground up, or get to design
commercial buildings from thatfrom the ground up. Those people
do exist, but, there's a lot ofrisk in that too. Just because
somebody has deep pockets andthey have money to burn, it can
(18:48):
that could be more of a hasslethan working with someone who
knows they had a limited theyhave a limited budget. They can
only do so much. I don't care ifthe house is $2 million they
know that that's all they have.For a lot of people, $2 million
home would be amazing, but theyknow all they have is $2 million
the client sometimes, ah, dowhatever you want. It could be a
crap show. I mean, becausehonestly, they're not making any
(19:10):
decisions. They're not tellingyou what to do, and you don't
know, then the worst thing isthey come in. You know, I was
thinking that maybe that thatshould be over there or or maybe
those stairs shouldn't wraparound to the right. They should
wrap around to the left. The
less money you put you spend,the more illusion of choice you
have. It's like, buying a Honda.It's an illusion. It's an
(19:32):
illusion. You know, you got acouple things you can do here.
You can buy an LX and EX, an ex.L, yeah, you can have some
choices. But it's like, I equatethat to I went from I sold Honda
or cars for a couple years. WhenI went from Honda to Mercedes,
it was like, you know, thislittle cone of options with
Honda, you knew the trim levels,what you could generally get
with them. To Mercedes, it waslike, wide open options, yeah,
(19:55):
because you're paying more forthe car well, and
music can be the same way.Honestly. I mean, if you're
working with an MD. Or you'reworking with an artist. You
know, for me, I can't speak forany other drummer, any other
musician, a lot of times, if I'mnot giving parameters, I mean,
and I say this because, becauseanother thing that another type
of person I love is comediansbefore actors. But I really love
(20:15):
actors because, and I heardBill, Bill Murray say this
before, you know, he knows thathe's got a part nailed where he
can feel it in his feet.Interesting. Yes, Judy Dench is
somebody is
a great, great actor. What dothey mean by that? Well, dense
is still hot. Well,
but I'm gonna tell you. I'mgonna tell you what. I'm gonna
tell you what I think, Oh, myGod. I mean, I think so too,
(20:38):
because creativity and just be Imean, there's a lot of things
that makes you comfortable inher skin. Do anybody? Anybody
can be beautiful, dude.Attraction is a whole, okay,
Helen Mirren,
yeah. I mean, maybe I'm thinkingof Helen Mirren when I'm talking
about
Judy Dench. Helen mirrens on1923 right now with Harrison
Ford. I mean,
she's so comfortable in herskin, man, she does
(21:00):
that. She does that ScottishIrish accent perfectly she does,
yeah. But the point I was makingis parameters, for me are always
great, because you need, I needto know a little bit about what
you're thinking to give you whatI think you want. But there's
this thing in architecture alsowhere you spend a lot of time
educating the client, because itwas always irritating when
(21:21):
somebody showed up and they hada picture. Hey, you know, can
you guys do this? Yeah? But no,tell me what you really think
you want, what you really need,and then we'll talk about how we
can get to point A to point B,where music a lot of times it's
the same way, you know, I needthat. MD, I need that, that
producer. I need that guy togive you the to give me some
parameters. Yeah, give me someparameters to work in so you can
(21:43):
create your little Mo and Lisa,yeah. Asset jazz is great. But,
you know, having parameterssometimes is really great. So
anytime anybody I think that'screative, not everybody works
this way. I do it creatively.Parameters are good, whether
it's architecture, music,whatever
I love it. We never discussthat. So who are some comedians
that just blow you away, likethey're Are you like a bill a
(22:06):
bill burger guy, or you likemore? Mark Marin, like
storytelling.
I can I can be situational. AndI'm not going to mention this
person first, because they're myfavorite. It's just, it's just a
good example. So Dave Chappellestarted out a certain way. Come
on, he started out a certain wayas a certain kind of comedian,
and then he went away for awhile, and then he came back,
(22:26):
and he was a different kind ofcomedian, and I think he's still
kind of evolving.
But how about those fourspecials on Netflix? You could
watch them back to back over andover and over again, and they we
in our band after a show, wewill watch these things over and
over again, and it stillresonates, and we still laugh at
the same
Yeah, yes, because it justdepends on where you are that
(22:48):
day. But he just, I mean, and Ithink he's still kind of
evolving. It's kind of like amodern day George Carlin
commenting on, yeah, commentingon society. But I also love
people, like, I'm gonna butcherthis name. She's gonna have to
forgive me, because I don't knowher, but that's okay anyway. I
anyway, Natasha legero,
love her. Just short, littleItalian, yeah, you know dice
(23:08):
Clay's show. He had a showcalled dice, yeah,
another period, it was a TVshow. I mean, just, I don't know
it's just, it's just somethingabout that kind of stuff that I
love, but I love musicians, notmusicians. Not, not musicians.
I'm sorry. I love musicians thatare really courageous too, but
comedians, comics are reallycourageous.
I mean, they're so I was gonnasay that they're so brave. They
(23:30):
go up there and they've workedtheir thing out, maybe kind of
sort of, but they kind of knowwhat they want to do, what they
want to say, but you have tohave a lot of bravery to go up
there. And again, we use thisword earlier, really, be honest,
yeah, and be in that moment.Honest, yeah, and, but I think
the same way about actors. Imean, there are a lot of actors
(23:51):
that I could point to that arejust, they're just incredible.
Well, you think is the best oneout there these days? So
I'm that guy when it comes tomovies or just acting in
general. Not that mainstream iswrong or there's anything wrong
with mainstream. You like artfilms? Well, not, not so much
already films, but, but I could,there's two movies that I could
(24:12):
watch all the time and nobodywould ever have to do anything
else with me. Movie wise. One isthere will there will be blood,
oh, yeah. And, and they're kindof similar movies. The other one
is No Country for Old Men. Imean, it's just, they're just,
they're just raw. The casting isspot on and just the way. I
(24:34):
mean, again, anybody, any actor,that that can change themselves
into this person. Is believablethe way they walk, the way they
change their voice, theyliterally can change their
countless and they become thischaracter. Yeah, is amazing.
It's something
(24:55):
to so be admired. And you know,when I was studying, I knew
that. Was never going to be awear a wig and do period pieces
and do Shakespeare Well, thatwould be utterly hilarious. I
wanted to, I wanted to do partsthat were an extension of my
natural, natural essence. Canyou do a British accent? Rich?
Not. I wouldn't do it because I,you know, I'd had to. Right here
(25:18):
and now, spot of tea. Keepgoing. Spot of tea. Can you? Can
you okay? You keep on saying thesame thing over and over
again. Can you converse likeRingo, you know? Well,
that's a Cockney. That's aLiverpool come
upstairs, and we'll young you upa bit
(25:41):
about making sure everybody'sfans got dyed hair, no belly,
really. And the end, and where'sJohn Barbados. Wow, he come
upstairs. We young. You up abit. Young
up a bit. Come on, yeah. What doy'all think out there? The old
that's awesome. Wow.
No. But so deep. So when youwere studying architecture, you
(26:03):
were drumming at the same time.Now, did you do architectural,
architecture professionally fora while? Yeah,
for a while I did, wow.
And then how are you managingall the drumming during this so,
so there was, there were someguys that I met because I went
to architecture school after Igot out of the Navy, and there
were some guys that I metliterally at this music store in
(26:24):
Knoxville. It's called Rick'smusic, okay? And I went in just
to buy some drumsticks, and Ijust decided I'm gonna sit down
on this. Is it still there? No,no. I'm gonna sit down on this
kid, and I'm just playing aroundon this kid. So these two guys
approach me like, Dude, what areyou doing later? Can we talk
about playing some music? Yadayada yada. Are you free tonight?
Yeah. Are you free tonight? Soanyway, it turns into this band,
yeah, that was called just waterblonde. And, excuse me, we, uh,
(26:48):
I mean, just we, we had somereally good times. Shared the
stage with a lot of differentpeople, just very varied. Dude,
just, I mean, everybody from thecrab family to Arrested
Development to to Israel and newbreed, to Victor Wooten, to what
was the
music like? Was it? It
was it was this. It was, it waslike, and
(27:11):
I always struggled to describeit. It was like,
what's that band out of me?
It's like, is it Jam Band?
No, no. It's a, it's a Christianrock band, pod. It's like pod
mixed with James Brown mixedwith chili peppers, funky, rocky
(27:35):
overtones. Well, not, not, yes,but not, not, not so much in
your face, yeah, but, but it wasjust us having a great time. So
I was having to mix all dude. Iwould, we would, we would go out
on the weekends and and do ourrole thing and come back on no
sleep, and then I'm at adrafting day. I mean, just like,
(27:58):
just like most musicians burningthe candle at both ends, and
just because you love it. Imean, it's not, it wasn't even
really an option. You didn'teven think about it, yeah, so,
so you just did it. So, I mean,plus, I was, I was a little
younger at the time, and my wifewas, was, was a lot more
understanding then, and she isnow in a different way, not that
she's not as understanding
now, on a Wednesday, come backon a Sunday, yeah,
(28:19):
yeah. Sometimes you leave on aWednesday, you come back on a
Sunday, and, young, and that waslike, constant, yeah, but, but
you loved it in a passenger vanpulling a trailer behind you.
And is the back line gonna becrappy when we get there? We got
to use the back line is, I mean,whatever. Hey,
kid, we got a CB 700 kid, youlike hydraulic heads.
(28:42):
Wait. You want hands on them?
Well, it's the proverbialpicture, dude. Here's the house
kit. It's even worse than thehouse kit photo when you get
there, yeah? Dude, yeah. Crazycamber.
Cambers. Do you like adjustablesnare drum stands at our own
volition, just on their
(29:02):
own. Hey, so And thank you foryour service. So right out of
high school, you're going jointhe Navy.
Well, actually, I went tobusiness school first, then I
went to Navy, and then I wentup. Were you in Mystic?
No,
no. What
was your navy experience like?And I tell you what the I think
this is crazy to say, butthere's a lot of countries
(29:23):
around the world where militaryservice is required for two
years. I think it would be goodfor some of these entitled young
whippers. That
would be awesome. I talk aboutthis all the time with people. I
don't I don't think a couple ofyears of compulsory active duty
service would be a bad thing fora lot of people. I mean, I know
a lot of people disagree withthat, but I think it'd be a
(29:44):
great thing because you're only20 when you get out, right?
Yeah. I mean, honestly, therewas a lot the military taught
me. I thought I had things, somethings together, and I was okay,
because I'd always been a selfstarter. I was always kind of
person who didn't need a lot ofoutside motivation to do things,
yeah, but there. There was somethings that the military taught
me, especially the way I served,which I'm really proud of. Some
(30:08):
submarine life is not likesurface Navy life. It's
it's a lot more claustrophobic.It is.
It is, but, but it's hard toexplain to people. How
long are you down there. It
depend on a mission, yeah. Howwas it
a nuclear powered sub? They'reall nukes. Now they're all
nukes. And how many guys were onthe boat with you? The
(30:29):
crew? The crew could be anywherefrom 100 to 120 it just depended
different different departments.Yeah, of course. You had
strategic guys, you had tacticalguys, you had navigation guys,
engineering guys, people whoknew certain things about
certain things. Everybody had toknow everything, because if half
the crew goes down, these birdsstill got to fly. We got to get
(30:50):
these missiles off, yeah. So youto be qualified. What you get
about when you get a certainamount of time to do it, you
can't just show up there. Youhave to get what's called
qualified, which means you gotto learn every nut every boat.
You got to know how to react toplant works. You got to know how
to launch. Gotta know how tolaunch missiles. You gotta
understand the tactical side ofit. If, if half this crew dies,
and we got nowhere to come hometo because the rest of the world
(31:10):
has exploded, you can survive.We could survive. But you got to
know this guy's job. You got toknow this guy's job. They start
eating each other. Yeah. I mean,we know we would take this. We
had to be have the sameintellectual qualifications. And
so it's going to sound kind ofweird, because people think,
well, seals don't have anintellect. They actually, really
do. But we had to take the samephysicals and we just seal the
(31:31):
seals, the seals and sub guys,yeah, I mean, your scores, your
qualifications. I mean, they'relike, right up there. You're
like, 1% of 1% some of
that stuff is the is the strangestuff where you're, like, just
those tests, where you're on thebeach and you're you're cuffed,
and the waters are coming in,and didn't
do any of that. Oh, yeah, but,yeah, but, but that was, we had
our portion of crap that we,that we because, because, you
(31:55):
mean, people would mean, I'mgonna say this. I don't mean any
disrespect. Yeah, there are someprofessions in the civilian
world where turd is the norm,right? And exceptional
is the exception. Yes, it'suncommon. It's uncommon
in that in that world,
(32:17):
turd was very uncommon, and youfound out real fast if you're
who the turd was, and and thenwhat do you do with the turd?
Just one day they're gone. Youflush them. You haze them, well,
no, or slightly
encourage them, like we're onlyyou encouraged
vigorously, but, but, buteventually, wind up
(32:38):
they're gone. So you could juststraight up get out of the
military. Well, they're notholding up your radio.
They didn't know. Well, theydidn't kick you out of the Navy.
It's just you can't do this.You're a desk jockey now,
whatever. I don't know what theyare, what they send them to, but
you can't, yeah, you can't dothis. Yeah. And sometimes pick
guys with psych eval out of it.You know this. I mean, you do
get some guys who kind of, kindof get through the preliminary
(33:00):
valuations, and they show up ata submarine, because they
literally, 99% of the time, theyknow if you're going to be able
to do this before you ever evensee a submarine.
What was the whole crush depthand how close did you guys get?
I'm not allowed to remember,you're not allowed. So that's
classified. Really. I legallycannot tell
you, Wow, it's amazing.
(33:21):
It's great to be bound by thelaws and the government. That's
right. It's
what if we redacted in thebuckets? I
legally there are certain thingsI legally cannot tell you,
because
in Crimson Tide, another greatmovie with Gene Hackman. Yeah,
right, yeah. I think they saidin that movie it was, like, 1200
feet or something like that. Andit was they could, they came
(33:43):
within like 50 feet, and thenthe powers back up, and they
were able to get back up.
Oh my gosh, I can't tell youthis, though, close call. If
some if they actually reallymade a documentary or a movie
about what life is like on atrident ballistic missile
submarine, it lasts about 15minutes, really. Yeah, it lasts
about 15 is
it that boring? Or the stuff youcan't talk about?
I mean, most, most militarystuff is you just you, it's
(34:06):
hurry up and wait, hurry up andwait. But when we need you,
yeah, and then, and then you,then you're told this is what
the mission is. You, dependingon what you do. You're told
about when you're gonna deploy.You're told about where you're
gonna go. I mean, that's youknow about when you might be
back the movies
that are out there that deal inthese types of scenarios. Did
(34:27):
Crimson Tide come close? Was itreally? I mean, it just seemed
that, like all the language theywere using, all that stuff
consultants, completelyfictional,
really, all Hollywood eyes,completely fictional, really?
Yeah, it would never happenedthat
way. So why not the Navy Band,that would seem the obvious
choice, less physical. Let
me tell No, let me tell yousomething. The Navy Band is so
(34:50):
competitive, really, dude, youwould not believe the level of
rigor it requires you. To be apart
done talking about thesubmarines.
Okay, well, I just know that youcan't legally say,
I like to say about that. Butdude, just if you, if you ever
(35:13):
saw them perform, oh yeah, you'dunderstand why. I mean, it's
that whole musical, professionalthing, but, but with military
precision and way of life on topof it? Yes? So, real precise,
real very precise, verydisciplined, yeah, you have to
want to do it.
And they travel and pretty well.And you got your retirement, and
(35:36):
you got a paid vacation, you gotdental and medical.
They're soldiers. They'resailors, yeah? Some good. That's
so good. They're Marines. Yeah,it's so competitive. It's so
competitive. My dad was in theNavy. I wish I had more
information, but I know he wason the sub, really. And when I
was born 1970 when dinosaursroamed the earth, he was on a
sub in Loch Ness,
(35:58):
makes sense for the time. Crazy,right? Yeah, yeah,
exactly in Scotland,
yeah. I said, Did you see themonster dad? You know what I
mean? Because I was, I lovelockdown, I love Bigfoot, I love
area 51 Marine
inside Loch Ness. I guess reallydid
he ever, did you ever ask himquestions about this
is so embarrassing. My dad'sgonna be 80. So as we're getting
to the point where I want torecord his life story, ask him.
(36:23):
You want to ask him all thequestions. And I want to the
next time we get together. And I
did ask, if we do it on thepodcast, it'd be great. We
should. There you go, you know,but it's
going to be, I'll be publiclyembarrassed about the number of
things I don't know about my ownparent. Well, that's
okay, because, I mean, whenafter my my dad passed, I found
out a lot of things about himfrom his friends and people that
(36:44):
knew him well. But, you know,probably as a kid you shouldn't
know,
ditto, yeah, I learned a lot ofthings about my dad I didn't
know after he was gone. Yep,
by the way, I did watch twoepisodes of F is for family.
Wow, that was the 70s, yeah,yes, it was
(37:05):
binged.
Awesome. Yes, was
it Laura Linney is the wife,yeah? And
Justin Long is one of the kids?
Yeah, yeah. He's the one that'sin the, like, the, he's, like,
in the band that's like, Yes,
oh no, Prague rock. Justin Longis, the is the is the hippie
son, I believe, but he's in aband, yeah? And it's like, rush,
(37:25):
it's amazing. Yeah, it'samazing. I've only seen the
first two episodes. He's not ina band yet. The one where
they get into the fight at thetable, and there's no, they're
like, screaming, and then theyhave makeup space, oh no, that's
what I'm talking
about. Where he's getting thecalls, the sales calls at
dinner, and he's like, I'm notgonna get it. I'm not getting
(37:47):
this boon.
I'll tell you, dude, don't spoilit for dude. F is the family
where a man has to do what a mandoes.
Amazing. It is awesome, dude.There's only two seasons
of it, yeah, I watched it bymyself, yeah? And then my wife,
she's like, What do you watch?I'm like, Oh, you got to check
(38:07):
this out. And we both just dove,right? I swear there's
five seasons,
maybe not a couple. Yeah. Okay,well, speaking of cartoons, we
were talking off camera. What'sup with that emoji t shirt?
Watch invaders them, and you'llknow invaders m
z i m, invader z i m. And what
streaming service is that on?Well, it was on
(38:29):
Nickelodeon for a while. Nowit's just it's in syndication,
and I bought it on, I hope Icould say this on Apple TV,
sure, because I just wanted tohave it because I wanted to own
it, because it's so awesome,yeah, but I'm not real sure
where you can watch it now, butit's around. You can get it, but
it's just, it's this wild thing,dude that's created by John and
(38:53):
Vasquez. I think I'm announcinghis last name, right, but he Zim
is an irkin, and his entireplanet are invaders. And what
they do is they go around theuniverse and they invade planets
and enforce their will on theseplanets. The Earth can weigh on
these planets. Well, thisparticular show is about an
(39:14):
invader who's horrible at it. Heliterally is the worst invader
that you're ever going to meetLittle does he know that the
leaders who are called thealmighty tallest, they're the
leaders of his people becausethey're the tallest. Oh, that's
poor people, and they'reidentical. They're identical
because two of them, they'reidentical because they're the
same height. They sent him theearth to get rid of him. But he
(39:36):
doesn't know this, all right?And as bad as this sounds, he's
actually trying to destroyEarth. He's the he's the
protagonist. The antagonist isthe kid who knows that. He's an
invader trying to take over theearth. But nobody believes
him. It sounds like residentalien.
It may be maybe a little similarto resident alien.
(39:56):
I mean, it sounds good. I mean,it's no tribal but I'm wearing a
t shirt
that. That character, Dib. Yes,dib is the is the antagonist
who's always foiling theprotagonist, Zim. But this is,
this is that kind of faci thingthat DIB wears on every episode.
What's the
one you're watching? Primal? Iwatched primal on it was adults.
(40:18):
It was like a five season AdultSwim cartoon, but very bloody,
very gory, very violent, and agreat soundtrack. So it's I've
talked about it on severalepisodes, but I binged it, and
I'll probably watch it again.It's a T Rex and a caveman who
neither one of them can speak,but they befriend each other and
they travel the world on anadventure. Wow,
(40:40):
dude, see, that's what you want,dude, a buddy, a bro thing,
which dude I'm telling you,interspecies
bro, yes, story amazing. It'slike,
you know, speaking of Adult Swimagain, hopefully I can say this
world case, totally Yeah, dude.We have no sponsors. Metal,
ocalis, have you guys seenmetal? Oh
yeah, I've seen them. I've seensome of the musicians from that
play live, really, at the Improvon Melrose in LA talk
(41:03):
about soundtrack. Dude, Geneholder, dude, that show dude,
dude, is incredible. If youstill don't watch it for the
music, it's incredible.
But a metal locker is that onAdult Swim metal? I don't
think they're not. It's not onAdult Swim anymore. But again, I
bought it Apple TV, Apple TV,but it's out there. You can find
it anywhere. But it's just thisreally cool show about this, the
(41:26):
internal life of rock stars,yes, who and they literally are,
like, the eighth largest economyby themselves, really on the
planet. I'm not gonna spoil ittoo much. Just watch it. It's
awesome. And
so speaking of gene, Hoagland,do you play fast double bass? Do
you like that? I
don't play fast double bass asfast as gene does. Who does I
(41:48):
mean, jeez. But yes, I dig somedouble bass. When I think
Lombardo fast, I never reallyheard gene. It depends
on who you ask. A lot of peoplewould say that when it comes to
that metal double bait, thatgene is, like the gold standard,
but, but I'm not saying thatother guys aren't right, but
gene is also hella musical. Imean, just, he's just really
(42:13):
musical. I'm not saying otherguys aren't right, but, but,
yeah, he's that metal dude thatjust, but
you know who my metal guy wasVinnie aposy, yes. Car mine's
brother, yes. And he wasn't adouble Basser. He just had a
nice, strong right foot. Andthen my double bass chops come
from Carmine, and it's moreabout power than speed. So I got
(42:33):
a lot of power and but I'm moreof like a slow foot me and like
Clapton, slow hand, slow footwould be this amazing band.
Yeah,
that's the challenge that I'vebeen having with the Huey thing,
really, is that they want me to,like, at the end of new drug,
they want to accent all the hornblah, you know, they want to,
(42:54):
like, kind of do back, like,little, you know, you could do
that, you know, like, what Billdoes in the second part of that
mood got to and he goes, go backto the groove. Yeah, they want
it done in every single section.And you listen to some of the
other drummers that they have,they're
(43:14):
like, more always, are
you saying you'd like to be able
to do that? I don't write. I'mat the age where I'm like, I
don't need to, like, once abouta time, I'd be like, Oh my gosh,
I gotta learn how to play likethat. Like, I watched Jelly
Rolls drummer a couple of Codyash. Cody ash, that dude is a
beast. He's fast. He's reallyfast. And, you know, but it's
(43:35):
all the stuff that he's doing.He's doing a like, you know, a
lot of like, variations with thekick at the toms and stuff like
that. Dare
I say he's got, he had somelike, you called him modern
gospel chops. It's gospel chopsmeets Prague metal. Okay, right?
And he's mixing it up. Yeah,he's playing with this guy named
Jelly Roll crazy. It's nuts.He's
(43:56):
like, a metal drummer that foundhimself a country gig. Totally.
Well, you know, I mean it. Maybeyou don't want to, you don't
care about it, but you know JoJoMeyer, great drummer. Love that
dude to death. He's like a realdrummer playing electronica,
yeah. But anyway, he's anincredible teacher as well. Yes.
And his advice for guys who wantto play faster is just, it's not
(44:19):
all about just building up yourchops to get to a certain speed.
You literally have to learn,have to have to learn to think
faster, to play faster. And he'snot saying just thought, after
thought, after thought, Ithought. That's not what he
means. He's saying you have toadjust your mind, yes, to the
speed of what you want to do,and it can get you there fast.
He's got a whole thing aboutYeah. And JoJo Meyer, I'm
(44:41):
telling you, just as atechnician, the he's pretty
amazing. He is because
when he does his Samba, youknow, so like when I do a samba,
it starts to pick up swinging,digging, digging, digging,
digging, right? But he'sthinking he's got that second
note in there, right? So he'sright, right? He's got this
thing where he can get all fourNo. In there. And I have to
cheat it, you know, we're mosthuman drummers. Don't take again
(45:04):
gig again, Mere Mortals. Yes,it's
crazy. We all have the samemusculature, though, and bone
structure, but
some guys might have sort of,like a they're fast
Twitchers. There's Twitchers.They're fast Twitchers. Yeah,
yeah. And I guess, and I guessyou can build that up to a
certain degree, but you know, alot of stuff is, is, I mean, I
(45:24):
hate to say it like this, but Ijust think there's a truth to
it, because it sounds like noneof us have access to it, which
is not the case. Some guys,honestly, they have a there's
gift to it. I mean, I think alot, most a lot of museums, are
really gifted, but, but we'reall different. We're gifted
differently. Even if we play thesame instrument, we're gifted
differently. And you know, andif you do things a little
slower, that's fine, too. Maybeyou're more musical, you know,
(45:46):
because it's not about how muchyou can play or how much bass
you can fill up. I actuallyenjoy musicians, honestly, not
because of the less they play,but they know what to play,
where to play it, when to playit, and they're literally there,
not necessarily not to be seen,but they're a servant in how
they approach it. If they'remusical,
like you're talking about now,to your point earlier that you
(46:08):
made, that the song is gonnatell you what it needs. Yeah,
it's gonna tell you what itneeds. And that's musical
maturity. That's musicianshipmaturity, to me, that you know,
even as I'm getting back intoit, I've been playing since I'm
1112, years old, but for thelongest time, and what's working
against me is the fact that, youknow, building up the muscle
memory and the chops going inthinking that it's simple music
(46:31):
to play, which it is not like, Ihad a guy come up to me this
morning. He goes, he's like,Well, that's pretty much
straight head music. I'm like,Dude, you think it is simple,
simple stuff. Dude, can be like,for real challenging, because
simple stuff, especially if, ifit's, if it's meant to work, it
is what it is, you know, it'ssimple, it stands on its own.
Well, you have to handle it alittle, a little differently,
(46:53):
because it's simple. It doesn'tneed you to. And I'm not talking
about playing less. I'm justsaying it's just, it's a
simplicity to it. Well, he hadmade
the comment. He says, Well, it'snot like, it's, you know, you're
playing Neil Pierre, I said,Neil Peart stuff. You knew it
was complicated, right? I said,Try playing if this is it. Yeah,
six got dude, got dude.
(47:14):
That's a lot harder. But feel,feel is, I mean, not being
insulting towards anybody feel,a lot of times, it's something
that a lot of people don't have.You know, field is the kind of
thing. You're definitely born init. Well, you can develop and
develop it, but, but it's thekind of thing that I think
personally feel. Feel is one ofthose things that, in some
(47:36):
instances, you have to want it.You have to want to have great
feel I mean, I've gotten, I'vegotten jobs before
based on your feeling, yeah?Because
this Gerald is a guy's a greatfeeler. Yeah, he's making, he
makes life easy for the rest ofus. He's musical. He understand
how this thing's supposed tofeel. Yeah? And, you know,
(47:56):
without being too technical oranything like that, because I
know some dudes that they don'tgive a credit, they don't want
to talk about the technicality.Technicalities of anything. I
just want you to feel thisthing. I want to have to not
look her back. I don't want tohave to not look back at Yes,
yes, yes, yes. That's the worstI've had in these that would
there were just absolute tyrantsin the rehearsal room. And they
(48:17):
would tell you, you know, dude,I you know. You ask them, Am I
doing a good job? Because youwant to get feedback. And they
go, Well, I tell you what. Theygo, Well, I tell you what. You
know, when people are dancing atthe gig, I'll let you know if
you're doing if you did a goodjob.
That was the ultimate test inthis. In the 80s and 90s,
playing in dance bands, weddingbands, corporate bands, how many
people? How long you could keep?Can you
make that shuffle, bounce,
(48:38):
yeah. Can you Yeah? Can you makethat thing dance? Can you make
yourself without, yeah, so, Imean, there are a lot of
different ways to evaluatethings, but, but speed is great,
but, well,
I mean, it's, it serves apurpose to a certain kind of
audience. So you listen to like,but I came up it was I listened
to, you know, Van Halen was ahuge influence on me. Then it
could be, it became rush, and myplaying level went up a whole
(49:00):
lot more. And then, you know, Igot into, like, the heavier
bands, metallic and Anthrax wasa big influence on me, but that
was all thrash speed and allthat kind of, and I used to play
all the fast double bass stuff,but it just didn't stick, you
know, because it's like, okay,
yeah, you know what you guyshave in common? What
Carter? Yeah, yeah. I was nevergonna sound like Carter, but
(49:21):
just the way Carter kind ofapproached things, to me, was
really freeing. Yeah, you know,over here, over here, yeah, but
not only that. I mean, he, hethat he and Dave in that band
have me. I mean, the guy gets tofeel over lyrics and
yeah, he's encouraged to do it,
yeah, he gets to play the exactsame set list tomorrow, but not
the same way. Yeah, in
(49:44):
the live version of antsmarching that when I was getting
in the radio in the late 90s,there was a portion of it where
he would play this. It was likethe Huertas off the symbol the
Tom and the snare drum. Youknow, over that burnt, he was
(50:05):
keeping time. And I'm, I wouldsit there and listening to it,
going, what the hell is hedoing? Yeah. And then you
finally get the 20,
does it with the feet and theChina's that that it gets right,
yeah.
And then you get under the tableand drumming the video set. Did
you have that? Yeah, I
do the hockey jersey, yes? Well,I gave it away to a kid. I
(50:30):
rocked, I did, but I had it foryears, but I gave it away my
wife. They're not flattering.No, they're not.
It's a thing. Or the the wetsuitthat he used to
never, never did the wetsu,yeah, he
used to wear, like, the spandexshirts,
amazing man. But it was designedfor him. To him, he could get
(50:50):
away with it. But the rest hegot away. But the rest of us had
to just kind of whatever, yeah,I was gonna wear the loose
hockey
jersey and do good with it.
If you're a founding member of aband and you have, you know, an
understanding with the guythat's singing those songs and
you're writing the songs. Imean, it's like everything was
lined up perfectly for him to beable to play the way he wants to
play, you know? I mean,unbelievable.
(51:10):
Well, well, but I'm on a richgush a little bit. Yeah, you
know? I mean, you're a foundingmember of a band, as far as I
know.
Yeah, this has been the richRedmond show. Subscribe, rate
and follow along at richredmond.com, forward, slash
podcasts you.
People used to find out that I knew lucky as a kid, and
(00:03):
kind of grew up with Lucky, areally young drummer, learning
from this guy named Joseph luckyScott, and I would have bass
players find me on the internetand call me, what was it like,
and what was it like to playwith lucky, and ask me, what was
he using to get that sound forsuch and so, oh my god. And I'm
like, Dude, I do not know. Firstoff, I wouldn't have known
(00:24):
because I was a little kid, butI used to actually see when
Lucky was out in public playingbass. There would be times when
he would get into certainsections and songs and he would
turn away so people couldn't seefrom the audience, because he
didn't want other bass playersto see what he
was doing. This is the richRedmond show.
(00:46):
Songs are like relationships. Asong's like a woman. If you're
in a really good relationshipwith a woman, you can't tell her
what you want her to be. Youcan't force her to be what you
want her to be. You can respondto her. You can try to interpret
what she says back to her. Ithink I hear you saying this,
(01:06):
yada yada, yada yada. You cantry to kind of match her, her
timbre, her her, her mood, orwhatever. But the best thing
that you can do, honestly islisten, and don't ever try to
force yourself on a song. Thesong will tell you what it wants
to be nice. And I've taken thatwith me, not just with music,
with everything.
(01:26):
So just open yourself up to theuniverse, and the universe will
tell you,
it'll lead you just, just behonest.
It's how the Marketplace is. ButI got a question for you, and
it's, and it's a very heavyquestion, okay, oh, if peanut
butter wasn't called peanutbutter, what would it be called?
It'd
be nut butter, nut butter, peabutter.
(01:47):
You can make butter out ofpeanuts.
Yeah, it's amazing. You know,how they actually do that. Do
you ever try ever make your ownpeanut butter? Oh, it's
exhausting. No, it's not. You doit at Trader Joe's. You pour the
things and you get to, you know,just
get a food processor and somepeanuts. It's all you need,
yeah, and it's super fresh. It'sfresh and amazing. Wow. Put it
on some bread, and now we'reinto the podcast. See,
(02:09):
this is what happens, very muchtrying to trick us into you
know, it's all the latest andgreatest stuff in in podcasting.
Yeah, now, but here we are. Herewe are having a great
conversation with our friendGerald wear. Now, let me tell
you about Gerald. We met in 2012This is 13 years ago, at a place
called the Rutledge that place,of course, progress in
(02:30):
Nashville. I think it's aMexican restaurant, it's a
hotel, it's something. Butanyways, it was a great night. I
think I was playing with rich.Eckhart. Rich was the guitar
player for Toby Keith for along, long long time, but he put
out this kind of like solofusion project. And then after
the show, I meet this very niceyoung man who is also a
musician, a consultant, a socialscientist, a researcher, a life
(02:51):
and career coach, a speaker anda proud US Navy submarine
veteran, yes, hailing fromChattanooga, Tennessee. This is
our friend, Gerald Weir. Thanksfor coming on
the show, man, thanks for havingme, dude, it's an honor. I
almost feel somewhat unqualifiedto sit here. No,
you. Well, the thing is, as Isaid,
a lot more I'm far lessqualified than anybody that sat
(03:12):
here.
Well, the thing, the commonthing, is that we all have a
love of music, drumming, rhythm.Also, you know you love we talk
over the years about success andmotivation and why we do things,
what inspires people, and you'reprobably will be the only
drummer we ever have on thisshow that has a PhD. So I
(03:33):
thought it would make for aninteresting conversation,
because you're a very evolvedhuman that has got a lot of
depth and interests. You knowwhat I mean? Because so drummers
are, you know, the drummer joke,you know? How do you know when
the stage is level? We all knowthat one get ready with the
splash symbol, Jim, the stage iseven that is when the drummer
(03:53):
drools out of both sides of hismouth. Yes,
okay, okay, yeah, never heardthat. But okay.
But I mean, originally from yourDetroit. You're from Detroit,
but you kind of grew up inChattanooga. You still live in
Chattanooga, keep a place inNashville. So smart, and I met
you as a drummer, and then asthe onion got peeled, I realized
that you did all these otherthings. And over the years,
(04:15):
you'd reach out to me. You'relike, Hey, would you answer this
questionnaire for my paper? AndI'd be like, This is great.
Somebody cares about what Ithink about for an academic
paper.
Well, but you're always graciousenough to answer the phone. And
honestly, you know, sometimesyou can tell what you're getting
when you first meet somebody.Yeah, honestly, full disclosure,
that night when we met at theRutledge that was literally the
(04:38):
first night I was in Nashville.That
is cool. That was a great kindof watering hole, you know,
networking opportunity for afirst night in town. Because
some people could just findthemselves at, oh, I'm at
tootsies. I heard about it. Iget it, yeah, you know. But I
mean, that was a, that was acool room,
yeah, Sean O'Brien, who actuallyplayed bass with you guys that
night, yeah, I knew him fromhigh school, but that was
(04:58):
actually the first night I wasactually out in. Nashville, but,
but my point in saying is, is,when you meet somebody, you can
tell sometimes if there's moreto them than just what you see.
Yeah, and you know, not, nottrying to be over flattering
here, but honestly, Dude, thatwas pretty, pretty, pretty. I
mean, it was hard to see thatyou were that kind of person.
(05:18):
Oh, man. And then the more Ilearned about you, and just kind
of what you did and how you didit. It just, it pretty much was
what I thought. It
was great. The last probably 10guests that we've had on, yeah,
I've sang your praises. Oh, I
love it. Well, people, peoplelove to hear their name. People
(05:40):
love
you listen to his humility. Imean, people, people love to
tell stories. Well, they buy outa big clinic at forks, and I
packed the house. I didn'tanticipate that.
Wow, it's not hard to pack out.I mean, there's
a there's not a lot already. Icouldn't do it. I couldn't pack
I don't think
anybody's gonna come see JimMcCarthy's jump drum clinic. I
(06:02):
drunk? Okay? Not a lot of guyscan do
I think after everyone sees youat May 28 with the Huey Lewis
tribute band at City winery,I'll be
there. Yeah? Cigarette lighterin hand. Nice.
I'll keep the fires burned.Yeah.
God,
hey, Boon got buys you houses,right? So, so this bass player
(06:25):
was, you know, Joseph Scott,Joseph lucky. Why'd they call
him lucky?
You know, I never asked himthat, yeah, and it was, it was
always interesting that he woulddo that was his nickname. But I
don't, I don't know, you know,it was one of those things
where, you know, here's this guywho's from Chattanooga playing
in Curtis Mayfield. Mayfield'sband, as a matter of fact, if
you want to see what he lookedlike, because he's passed away,
now, go look up the movieSuperfly. He's in Superfly, the
(06:49):
band that's that's CurtisMayfield's band. That's Joseph
lucky Scott playing bass dude. Iused to people used to find out
that I knew lucky as a kid, andkind of grew up with Lucky, a
really young drummer, learningfrom this guy named Joseph lucky
Scott, and I would have bassplayers find me on the internet,
yeah, and call me, what was itlike, and what was it like to
(07:12):
play with lucky and ask me, whatwas he using to get that sound
for such and so, oh my god. AndI'm like, Dude, I do not know.
First off, I wouldn't have knownbecause I was a little kid, but
I used to actually see whenLucky was out in public playing
bass. There will be times whenhe would get into certain
sections and songs and he wouldturn away so people couldn't see
him from the audience, becausehe didn't want other bass
(07:32):
players to see what he wasdoing. Didn't
do that in the early days.Didn't Eddie Van Halen do that
in the early days. Or somebodywould turn their back to the
audience so they couldn't see.
I don't know. I thought Eddiewas, he kind of had, like, the
showmanship was kind of bakedinto himself.
It could have been Stevie vi itcould have been, well, I heard
that story, but we were talkingoff camera, and so you were
(07:54):
lucky enough to get some like,like, musical coaching as a very
young person with this bassplayer. And what did he tell
you? Well,
he said that you know the bestthing that you can you can learn
and really just kind of take theheart about music. It doesn't
matter what instrument you play,if you sing, if you play,
whatever it is, is make sure youunderstand that it's a
relationship, specifically, in alot of ways. I mean, you're
(08:14):
having a relationship with thetech guys. You're having a
relationship with the other guyson the stage. You're having a
relationship with the audience,the production guys, but, but
really important, you're havinga relationship with the audience
because you want to make thatconnection. That's pretty much
to a large degree why you'redoing it. Because you want to
connect with people, but, butyou need to know that the most
important relationship is therelationship you're having with
(08:37):
the song and how to handle it,how to treat it. You don't abuse
it. You don't abuse it. Youdon't tell it what you want it
to be. You don't force yourselfon it. In a lot of ways, a lot
of cases, the song tells youwhat it wants to be. I'm like
anybody else, dude. I have a Ican have a pretty large ego, and
I want to come in, I want to, Iwant to do journal on this
thing, dude. But you can alwaysdo that. So you got to find a
(08:58):
place to where. What does thesong want? What does this gig
need? And you humble yourselfand you do it, but, but that
song is, honestly, it's like awoman or a man, or whatever you
know, but you have whateveryou're into, yeah, you have to,
you have to, you have to, youhave to honor it, yeah, and not
force yourself on it. That thesong, especially if it's a great
tune, it'll tell you what itwants to be. He'll tell you what
(09:21):
it is.
Well, you're a great all aroundplayer. You recently sent me a
video of you playing a songcalled peace accord and, man,
you got it all that popping andcracking, snare, that back beat,
the power, the chops,musicality, all the stuff,
man, you know, well, you know, Isent that to you. I sent that to
a lot of people, actually, youknow, sometimes I'll just like,
(09:42):
send a song to people that Ilike, and sometimes it's not
even really a fully formed idea,but you try to have the
production there, but not, nottoo much, not trying to go
overboard with production, butyou send things that you like to
people, because this issomething from your heart. It's
not something that you're tryingto sell, per se. But again, man,
everything. That we do,especially as musicians or any
(10:02):
other field for that matter,it's people, you know, we want
to make those connections. Wewant to remake those
connections. And so you send itout there, you just put it out
there, man, and you believe init. And sometimes it has wards,
and sometimes it's a little morepolished than others, but you
just
want to share it. That's nice.And is that your home studio?
Here it is,
it is nice. It is, well, it's myhome studio in Chattanooga.
(10:23):
Chattanooga, I don't have theroom here, here, yeah, but,
yeah, it's my home studio inChattanooga. Like,
I like that. You're, you're kindof, like, you're kind of BI
coastal, man, you guys living intwo cities, man, you know, my
wife is very gracious. That isawesome. Well, how long you
crazy kids been together? Andhow did you
I'm gonna date myself a littlebit here, dude, my we've been
married 25 years. Yeah, and weactually met at church. My
(10:44):
sister knew her before I did,and they're probably not gonna
remember this, but my sister waslike, hey, you know I like,
there's someone I really likefor you to meet. And I've always
been that dude that I don't likebeing set up. I don't like the
setup and I resisted it for awhile, and then somehow,
someway, we just kind of gotinto contact with each other,
and I didn't call her for like,three, yeah, and then one day I
(11:07):
did. And then here we are, 25why'd you call Yeah? I saw her
again, and maybe I was just in adifferent place. But I think
maybe my eyes were just workingdifferently that day. Not that I
didn't think she was beautifulwhen I first saw her. I don't
know. Maybe I just wasn't at aplace where I was going to be
well, I was receptive. And so Isaw her again, I was like, oh,
(11:28):
was there something about herthat that made you like, you
know, I have a feeling aboutthis,
yeah, and it's gonna sound kindof weird, but I mean, I was like
any other single young dude youdate around, you do what, you
know, you do your thing, orwhatever. But I really from from
my wife. I really just got womanfrom her. If that makes, I don't
know if that makes total sense,yeah, yeah. She just, this is a
(11:50):
this is a woman through andthrough, yeah, through and
through. This is a woman. That'sexactly how I felt about my
wife. Awesome. So I'm not alonein it, yeah, it's a beautiful
thing. It really is. I mean, youjust for me, very frightening,
yeah, very frightening at first,because you're not in control,
you're not in control, and youjust kind of following yourself
down this trail. But yeah, 25years, she's never come into
(12:13):
conflict with me and music or meand anything else. She knows
she's first, but music does havea special Yes, you guys,
did you guys make the babies? We
three, two sons and a daughter.Nice. Yeah, we have a daughter
who's actually graduating fromhigh school this year. She's
going off to college, so we willbe officially empty nesters.
Yeah, and we can do some thingsthat we'd like to do. I'd like
(12:34):
to say I'd like to spend moremoney on myself in my studio.
But,
well, what's not until we getcollege over travel
or anything, yeah? Like, I'mcurious, because I'm kind of
getting there myself,
you know, yeah, I've traveledaround a lot. My wife, not so
much. So there are a lot ofplaces I like to take her that
she's never been. So travelingis definitely one.
What are some of those bucketlist places? Like, are we
(12:55):
talking like? We're going like,like, corrupt, you know,
Madagascar,
you know, Fiji would bewonderful. Italy's gonna be it's
gonna happen this summer. Yougotta have Italy's gonna happen
this summer. Are you guys gonnado Rome and all the stuff? Well,
we talked about doing the grandtour, but to do the grand tour,
right, you really need a coupleof months. I don't think that's
gonna happen. But you know, mydaughter's gonna study
(13:18):
architecture as well, so it'sgonna be great to kind of go
around and see some of thechurches and just some of those
really, really old places thateverybody sees
on how did they do that stuffwithout machinery the human
mind, dude is, I mean, just likeJurassic Park. You probably
heard this before. Life finds away. Life will find a way, or
it's aliens, or it's aliens, Idon't know, but life will find a
(13:42):
way. But so we're going to dosome of that stuff and just
check some stuff off the list,and just travel around and just
enjoy each other, because it's anew, it's a new it's a new
chapter in our life. Weliterally were pregnant three
months after we said I do. So webasically have had no life,
yeah, without
so, I mean, I always equate thatto those kids that we felt bad
(14:04):
for in high school who, like,you know, all of a sudden
they're 1718, and she'spregnant, you know, and like, oh
my gosh, your life is ruined,and blah, blah, blah, and then
all of a sudden they just kindof get married, they forge their
way through it, And by the timethey're in their 40s, they're
done, and they have resources.Yeah, Jim is
(14:26):
saying it could be a young man,young person's game, right? You
have the energy, right?
You have the energy, theresource, which is true, it
parenting takes a lot of energy,physically, emotionally,
mentally, it does. I
really don't know how you guysdo it. I i Jim asked me, because
I always say, Yeah, you know, Inever did it. I never did it. I
you know, I never did it.
The funny thing is, is thatyou'd kind of late. You
(14:48):
mentioned rich in the beginningthat he took your phone calls,
which is the same story for me.He just kept on taking my phone
calls, and I one time, I think,texted you. So we were about to
have our second child, and Ireached out to rich via text.
I'm like, Hey, Courtney, candrop at any moment. Do you mind
(15:09):
if we have you on the list towatch Cami? Cami, at the time
was like, 1617, months old, wow.And he's like, did I call you
with them? Now she's in college.I know. But the funny thing is,
you were willing to do it, ah,see.
And the fact that you not onlyknew it, but not but not only is
(15:30):
it wonderful that you that youwould call, well, like I said,
sometimes you just, you justknow a good apple when you meet
him, yeah, but, but the factthat not only would he take your
calls being the guy that he is,but but him being the kind of
guy that you would trust enoughto call Would would you take my
little baby? Yeah, while I go dothis. I mean, it speaks volumes.
I was told I was totally messingI
mean, I'm afraid of the softspot on the skull, you know, I
(15:53):
was totally messing
with him. I just wanted to seehow he'd react. He would do he I
literally, it was a call. Iremember here. You were just No,
you were literally like, youknow, I probably could. I don't
have too much going on, so I andI'm like, Dude, I'm totally
messing with you right now. Wow.You were thinking, Can I
(16:16):
accommodate this? I probablycan, yeah, wow, amazing. I
didn't intend for him. I barelyknew you a year at that. Oh,
man,
yeah, but it's okay. It's okay.We're still friends all these
years later, I think you could
have pulled it off, though.
Let's make him reallyuncomfortable this episode and
just talk nothing about rich andlike, completely pour it on. The
world is
riches. The world is riches.Riches. World. I'm telling
(16:38):
you what. So you studyarchitecture, and it runs in the
blood.
Well, maybe, maybe not. We. Itold her that, you know, if at
any time, if you decide youdon't want to do this, walk away
from it. Yeah, because it is,and I'm not saying this because,
because I studied architecture,it is a very labor intensive
degree all night because allnighters, there's a lot of
(17:00):
things you have to know. Whatyou have to learn. Because it's
not just, can you draw well,it's, how does this wall stand
structural? You understanddeflection? Do you understand
moment? It's engineering. Do youunderstand compression? And
then, how do you make that lookgood? And while at the same
time, don't spend too much ofthe client's money, and yeah, so
(17:21):
it's, it can be a hall, yeah?Yeah,
interesting, yeah. Because,like, you know, when you get
the, you know, you got thesecookie cutter neighborhoods, now
we're like, there's maybe, likethree designs, and they'll put
up like 200 homes, yeah. Howdoes that work? This is called
Spring Hill. Does this home?Does this home builder come in
and, like, they hire, like, astaff architect to design those
(17:41):
three buildings. Developers
are a little different.Developers generally do those.
They just, you know, again, it'sand there's nothing wrong with
this. Everybody's in thebusiness to make money, and
variety sometimes doesn't offeritself very well to creativity.
Or the lack of variety, yeah,doesn't offer itself very well
to creativity. And so adeveloper, you know, you want to
make as much money as you can.So you have these, these basic
(18:03):
formats, these basic floor plansthat you have, of course, you
massage them a little bit. Yougive people the the notion that
they can make some choices aboutwhat they're getting. And in
truth, that is the case. I mean,you get to pick your finishes.
You get to pick your doorknobs.You get to pick your gold,
silver. Yeah, you get to pickhow much you want to spend on
this. I'm gonna spend in that,but it's still basically the
same general two or threeformats as what you're going to
(18:24):
get is for sports floor plan.And that has its place. Yeah,
that does. But, you know, youget, you get some of these guys
who get to design houses fromthe ground up, or get to design
commercial buildings from thatfrom the ground up. Those people
do exist, but, there's a lot ofrisk in that too. Just because
somebody has deep pockets andthey have money to burn, it can
(18:48):
that could be more of a hasslethan working with someone who
knows they had a limited theyhave a limited budget. They can
only do so much. I don't care ifthe house is $2 million they
know that that's all they have.For a lot of people, $2 million
home would be amazing, but theyknow all they have is $2 million
the client sometimes, ah, dowhatever you want. It could be a
crap show. I mean, becausehonestly, they're not making any
(19:10):
decisions. They're not tellingyou what to do, and you don't
know, then the worst thing isthey come in. You know, I was
thinking that maybe that thatshould be over there or or maybe
those stairs shouldn't wraparound to the right. They should
wrap around to the left. The
less money you put you spend,the more illusion of choice you
have. It's like, buying a Honda.It's an illusion. It's an
(19:32):
illusion. You know, you got acouple things you can do here.
You can buy an LX and EX, an ex.L, yeah, you can have some
choices. But it's like, I equatethat to I went from I sold Honda
or cars for a couple years. WhenI went from Honda to Mercedes,
it was like, you know, thislittle cone of options with
Honda, you knew the trim levels,what you could generally get
with them. To Mercedes, it waslike, wide open options, yeah,
(19:55):
because you're paying more forthe car well, and
music can be the same way.Honestly. I mean, if you're
working with an MD. Or you'reworking with an artist. You
know, for me, I can't speak forany other drummer, any other
musician, a lot of times, if I'mnot giving parameters, I mean,
and I say this because, becauseanother thing that another type
of person I love is comediansbefore actors. But I really love
(20:15):
actors because, and I heardBill, Bill Murray say this
before, you know, he knows thathe's got a part nailed where he
can feel it in his feet.Interesting. Yes, Judy Dench is
somebody is
a great, great actor. What dothey mean by that? Well, dense
is still hot. Well,
but I'm gonna tell you. I'mgonna tell you what. I'm gonna
tell you what I think, Oh, myGod. I mean, I think so too,
(20:38):
because creativity and just be Imean, there's a lot of things
that makes you comfortable inher skin. Do anybody? Anybody
can be beautiful, dude.Attraction is a whole, okay,
Helen Mirren,
yeah. I mean, maybe I'm thinkingof Helen Mirren when I'm talking
about
Judy Dench. Helen mirrens on1923 right now with Harrison
Ford. I mean,
she's so comfortable in herskin, man, she does
(21:00):
that. She does that ScottishIrish accent perfectly she does,
yeah. But the point I was makingis parameters, for me are always
great, because you need, I needto know a little bit about what
you're thinking to give you whatI think you want. But there's
this thing in architecture alsowhere you spend a lot of time
educating the client, because itwas always irritating when
(21:21):
somebody showed up and they hada picture. Hey, you know, can
you guys do this? Yeah? But no,tell me what you really think
you want, what you really need,and then we'll talk about how we
can get to point A to point B,where music a lot of times it's
the same way, you know, I needthat. MD, I need that, that
producer. I need that guy togive you the to give me some
parameters. Yeah, give me someparameters to work in so you can
(21:43):
create your little Mo and Lisa,yeah. Asset jazz is great. But,
you know, having parameterssometimes is really great. So
anytime anybody I think that'screative, not everybody works
this way. I do it creatively.Parameters are good, whether
it's architecture, music,whatever
I love it. We never discussthat. So who are some comedians
that just blow you away, likethey're Are you like a bill a
(22:06):
bill burger guy, or you likemore? Mark Marin, like
storytelling.
I can I can be situational. AndI'm not going to mention this
person first, because they're myfavorite. It's just, it's just a
good example. So Dave Chappellestarted out a certain way. Come
on, he started out a certain wayas a certain kind of comedian,
and then he went away for awhile, and then he came back,
(22:26):
and he was a different kind ofcomedian, and I think he's still
kind of evolving.
But how about those fourspecials on Netflix? You could
watch them back to back over andover and over again, and they we
in our band after a show, wewill watch these things over and
over again, and it stillresonates, and we still laugh at
the same
Yeah, yes, because it justdepends on where you are that
(22:48):
day. But he just, I mean, and Ithink he's still kind of
evolving. It's kind of like amodern day George Carlin
commenting on, yeah, commentingon society. But I also love
people, like, I'm gonna butcherthis name. She's gonna have to
forgive me, because I don't knowher, but that's okay anyway. I
anyway, Natasha legero,
love her. Just short, littleItalian, yeah, you know dice
(23:08):
Clay's show. He had a showcalled dice, yeah,
another period, it was a TVshow. I mean, just, I don't know
it's just, it's just somethingabout that kind of stuff that I
love, but I love musicians, notmusicians. Not, not musicians.
I'm sorry. I love musicians thatare really courageous too, but
comedians, comics are reallycourageous.
I mean, they're so I was gonnasay that they're so brave. They
(23:30):
go up there and they've workedtheir thing out, maybe kind of
sort of, but they kind of knowwhat they want to do, what they
want to say, but you have tohave a lot of bravery to go up
there. And again, we use thisword earlier, really, be honest,
yeah, and be in that moment.Honest, yeah, and, but I think
the same way about actors. Imean, there are a lot of actors
(23:51):
that I could point to that arejust, they're just incredible.
Well, you think is the best oneout there these days? So
I'm that guy when it comes tomovies or just acting in
general. Not that mainstream iswrong or there's anything wrong
with mainstream. You like artfilms? Well, not, not so much
already films, but, but I could,there's two movies that I could
(24:12):
watch all the time and nobodywould ever have to do anything
else with me. Movie wise. One isthere will there will be blood,
oh, yeah. And, and they're kindof similar movies. The other one
is No Country for Old Men. Imean, it's just, they're just,
they're just raw. The casting isspot on and just the way. I
(24:34):
mean, again, anybody, any actor,that that can change themselves
into this person. Is believablethe way they walk, the way they
change their voice, theyliterally can change their
countless and they become thischaracter. Yeah, is amazing.
It's something
(24:55):
to so be admired. And you know,when I was studying, I knew
that. Was never going to be awear a wig and do period pieces
and do Shakespeare Well, thatwould be utterly hilarious. I
wanted to, I wanted to do partsthat were an extension of my
natural, natural essence. Canyou do a British accent? Rich?
Not. I wouldn't do it because I,you know, I'd had to. Right here
(25:18):
and now, spot of tea. Keepgoing. Spot of tea. Can you? Can
you okay? You keep on saying thesame thing over and over
again. Can you converse likeRingo, you know? Well,
that's a Cockney. That's aLiverpool come
upstairs, and we'll young you upa bit
(25:41):
about making sure everybody'sfans got dyed hair, no belly,
really. And the end, and where'sJohn Barbados. Wow, he come
upstairs. We young. You up abit. Young
up a bit. Come on, yeah. What doy'all think out there? The old
that's awesome. Wow.
No. But so deep. So when youwere studying architecture, you
(26:03):
were drumming at the same time.Now, did you do architectural,
architecture professionally fora while? Yeah,
for a while I did, wow.
And then how are you managingall the drumming during this so,
so there was, there were someguys that I met because I went
to architecture school after Igot out of the Navy, and there
were some guys that I metliterally at this music store in
(26:24):
Knoxville. It's called Rick'smusic, okay? And I went in just
to buy some drumsticks, and Ijust decided I'm gonna sit down
on this. Is it still there? No,no. I'm gonna sit down on this
kid, and I'm just playing aroundon this kid. So these two guys
approach me like, Dude, what areyou doing later? Can we talk
about playing some music? Yadayada yada. Are you free tonight?
Yeah. Are you free tonight? Soanyway, it turns into this band,
yeah, that was called just waterblonde. And, excuse me, we, uh,
(26:48):
I mean, just we, we had somereally good times. Shared the
stage with a lot of differentpeople, just very varied. Dude,
just, I mean, everybody from thecrab family to Arrested
Development to to Israel and newbreed, to Victor Wooten, to what
was the
music like? Was it? It
was it was this. It was, it waslike, and
(27:11):
I always struggled to describeit. It was like,
what's that band out of me?
It's like, is it Jam Band?
No, no. It's a, it's a Christianrock band, pod. It's like pod
mixed with James Brown mixedwith chili peppers, funky, rocky
(27:35):
overtones. Well, not, not, yes,but not, not, not so much in
your face, yeah, but, but it wasjust us having a great time. So
I was having to mix all dude. Iwould, we would, we would go out
on the weekends and and do ourrole thing and come back on no
sleep, and then I'm at adrafting day. I mean, just like,
(27:58):
just like most musicians burningthe candle at both ends, and
just because you love it. Imean, it's not, it wasn't even
really an option. You didn'teven think about it, yeah, so,
so you just did it. So, I mean,plus, I was, I was a little
younger at the time, and my wifewas, was, was a lot more
understanding then, and she isnow in a different way, not that
she's not as understanding
now, on a Wednesday, come backon a Sunday, yeah,
(28:19):
yeah. Sometimes you leave on aWednesday, you come back on a
Sunday, and, young, and that waslike, constant, yeah, but, but
you loved it in a passenger vanpulling a trailer behind you.
And is the back line gonna becrappy when we get there? We got
to use the back line is, I mean,whatever. Hey,
kid, we got a CB 700 kid, youlike hydraulic heads.
(28:42):
Wait. You want hands on them?
Well, it's the proverbialpicture, dude. Here's the house
kit. It's even worse than thehouse kit photo when you get
there, yeah? Dude, yeah. Crazycamber.
Cambers. Do you like adjustablesnare drum stands at our own
volition, just on their
(29:02):
own. Hey, so And thank you foryour service. So right out of
high school, you're going jointhe Navy.
Well, actually, I went tobusiness school first, then I
went to Navy, and then I wentup. Were you in Mystic?
No,
no. What
was your navy experience like?And I tell you what the I think
this is crazy to say, butthere's a lot of countries
(29:23):
around the world where militaryservice is required for two
years. I think it would be goodfor some of these entitled young
whippers. That
would be awesome. I talk aboutthis all the time with people. I
don't I don't think a couple ofyears of compulsory active duty
service would be a bad thing fora lot of people. I mean, I know
a lot of people disagree withthat, but I think it'd be a
(29:44):
great thing because you're only20 when you get out, right?
Yeah. I mean, honestly, therewas a lot the military taught
me. I thought I had things, somethings together, and I was okay,
because I'd always been a selfstarter. I was always kind of
person who didn't need a lot ofoutside motivation to do things,
yeah, but there. There was somethings that the military taught
me, especially the way I served,which I'm really proud of. Some
(30:08):
submarine life is not likesurface Navy life. It's
it's a lot more claustrophobic.It is.
It is, but, but it's hard toexplain to people. How
long are you down there. It
depend on a mission, yeah. Howwas it
a nuclear powered sub? They'reall nukes. Now they're all
nukes. And how many guys were onthe boat with you? The
(30:29):
crew? The crew could be anywherefrom 100 to 120 it just depended
different different departments.Yeah, of course. You had
strategic guys, you had tacticalguys, you had navigation guys,
engineering guys, people whoknew certain things about
certain things. Everybody had toknow everything, because if half
the crew goes down, these birdsstill got to fly. We got to get
(30:50):
these missiles off, yeah. So youto be qualified. What you get
about when you get a certainamount of time to do it, you
can't just show up there. Youhave to get what's called
qualified, which means you gotto learn every nut every boat.
You got to know how to react toplant works. You got to know how
to launch. Gotta know how tolaunch missiles. You gotta
understand the tactical side ofit. If, if half this crew dies,
and we got nowhere to come hometo because the rest of the world
(31:10):
has exploded, you can survive.We could survive. But you got to
know this guy's job. You got toknow this guy's job. They start
eating each other. Yeah. I mean,we know we would take this. We
had to be have the sameintellectual qualifications. And
so it's going to sound kind ofweird, because people think,
well, seals don't have anintellect. They actually, really
do. But we had to take the samephysicals and we just seal the
(31:31):
seals, the seals and sub guys,yeah, I mean, your scores, your
qualifications. I mean, they'relike, right up there. You're
like, 1% of 1% some of
that stuff is the is the strangestuff where you're, like, just
those tests, where you're on thebeach and you're you're cuffed,
and the waters are coming in,and didn't
do any of that. Oh, yeah, but,yeah, but, but that was, we had
our portion of crap that we,that we because, because, you
(31:55):
mean, people would mean, I'mgonna say this. I don't mean any
disrespect. Yeah, there are someprofessions in the civilian
world where turd is the norm,right? And exceptional
is the exception. Yes, it'suncommon. It's uncommon
in that in that world,
(32:17):
turd was very uncommon, and youfound out real fast if you're
who the turd was, and and thenwhat do you do with the turd?
Just one day they're gone. Youflush them. You haze them, well,
no, or slightly
encourage them, like we're onlyyou encouraged
vigorously, but, but, buteventually, wind up
(32:38):
they're gone. So you could juststraight up get out of the
military. Well, they're notholding up your radio.
They didn't know. Well, theydidn't kick you out of the Navy.
It's just you can't do this.You're a desk jockey now,
whatever. I don't know what theyare, what they send them to, but
you can't, yeah, you can't dothis. Yeah. And sometimes pick
guys with psych eval out of it.You know this. I mean, you do
get some guys who kind of, kindof get through the preliminary
(33:00):
valuations, and they show up ata submarine, because they
literally, 99% of the time, theyknow if you're going to be able
to do this before you ever evensee a submarine.
What was the whole crush depthand how close did you guys get?
I'm not allowed to remember,you're not allowed. So that's
classified. Really. I legallycannot tell
you, Wow, it's amazing.
(33:21):
It's great to be bound by thelaws and the government. That's
right. It's
what if we redacted in thebuckets? I
legally there are certain thingsI legally cannot tell you,
because
in Crimson Tide, another greatmovie with Gene Hackman. Yeah,
right, yeah. I think they saidin that movie it was, like, 1200
feet or something like that. Andit was they could, they came
(33:43):
within like 50 feet, and thenthe powers back up, and they
were able to get back up.
Oh my gosh, I can't tell youthis, though, close call. If
some if they actually reallymade a documentary or a movie
about what life is like on atrident ballistic missile
submarine, it lasts about 15minutes, really. Yeah, it lasts
about 15 is
it that boring? Or the stuff youcan't talk about?
I mean, most, most militarystuff is you just you, it's
(34:06):
hurry up and wait, hurry up andwait. But when we need you,
yeah, and then, and then you,then you're told this is what
the mission is. You, dependingon what you do. You're told
about when you're gonna deploy.You're told about where you're
gonna go. I mean, that's youknow about when you might be
back the movies
that are out there that deal inthese types of scenarios. Did
(34:27):
Crimson Tide come close? Was itreally? I mean, it just seemed
that, like all the language theywere using, all that stuff
consultants, completelyfictional,
really, all Hollywood eyes,completely fictional, really?
Yeah, it would never happenedthat
way. So why not the Navy Band,that would seem the obvious
choice, less physical. Let
me tell No, let me tell yousomething. The Navy Band is so
(34:50):
competitive, really, dude, youwould not believe the level of
rigor it requires you. To be apart
done talking about thesubmarines.
Okay, well, I just know that youcan't legally say,
I like to say about that. Butdude, just if you, if you ever
(35:13):
saw them perform, oh yeah, you'dunderstand why. I mean, it's
that whole musical, professionalthing, but, but with military
precision and way of life on topof it? Yes? So, real precise,
real very precise, verydisciplined, yeah, you have to
want to do it.
And they travel and pretty well.And you got your retirement, and
(35:36):
you got a paid vacation, you gotdental and medical.
They're soldiers. They'resailors, yeah? Some good. That's
so good. They're Marines. Yeah,it's so competitive. It's so
competitive. My dad was in theNavy. I wish I had more
information, but I know he wason the sub, really. And when I
was born 1970 when dinosaursroamed the earth, he was on a
sub in Loch Ness,
(35:58):
makes sense for the time. Crazy,right? Yeah, yeah,
exactly in Scotland,
yeah. I said, Did you see themonster dad? You know what I
mean? Because I was, I lovelockdown, I love Bigfoot, I love
area 51 Marine
inside Loch Ness. I guess reallydid
he ever, did you ever ask himquestions about this
is so embarrassing. My dad'sgonna be 80. So as we're getting
to the point where I want torecord his life story, ask him.
(36:23):
You want to ask him all thequestions. And I want to the
next time we get together. And I
did ask, if we do it on thepodcast, it'd be great. We
should. There you go, you know,but it's
going to be, I'll be publiclyembarrassed about the number of
things I don't know about my ownparent. Well, that's
okay, because, I mean, whenafter my my dad passed, I found
out a lot of things about himfrom his friends and people that
(36:44):
knew him well. But, you know,probably as a kid you shouldn't
know,
ditto, yeah, I learned a lot ofthings about my dad I didn't
know after he was gone. Yep,
by the way, I did watch twoepisodes of F is for family.
Wow, that was the 70s, yeah,yes, it was
(37:05):
binged.
Awesome. Yes, was
it Laura Linney is the wife,yeah? And
Justin Long is one of the kids?
Yeah, yeah. He's the one that'sin the, like, the, he's, like,
in the band that's like, Yes,
oh no, Prague rock. Justin Longis, the is the is the hippie
son, I believe, but he's in aband, yeah? And it's like, rush,
(37:25):
it's amazing. Yeah, it'samazing. I've only seen the
first two episodes. He's not ina band yet. The one where
they get into the fight at thetable, and there's no, they're
like, screaming, and then theyhave makeup space, oh no, that's
what I'm talking
about. Where he's getting thecalls, the sales calls at
dinner, and he's like, I'm notgonna get it. I'm not getting
(37:47):
this boon.
I'll tell you, dude, don't spoilit for dude. F is the family
where a man has to do what a mandoes.
Amazing. It is awesome, dude.There's only two seasons
of it, yeah, I watched it bymyself, yeah? And then my wife,
she's like, What do you watch?I'm like, Oh, you got to check
(38:07):
this out. And we both just dove,right? I swear there's
five seasons,
maybe not a couple. Yeah. Okay,well, speaking of cartoons, we
were talking off camera. What'sup with that emoji t shirt?
Watch invaders them, and you'llknow invaders m
z i m, invader z i m. And what
streaming service is that on?Well, it was on
(38:29):
Nickelodeon for a while. Nowit's just it's in syndication,
and I bought it on, I hope Icould say this on Apple TV,
sure, because I just wanted tohave it because I wanted to own
it, because it's so awesome,yeah, but I'm not real sure
where you can watch it now, butit's around. You can get it, but
it's just, it's this wild thing,dude that's created by John and
(38:53):
Vasquez. I think I'm announcinghis last name, right, but he Zim
is an irkin, and his entireplanet are invaders. And what
they do is they go around theuniverse and they invade planets
and enforce their will on theseplanets. The Earth can weigh on
these planets. Well, thisparticular show is about an
(39:14):
invader who's horrible at it. Heliterally is the worst invader
that you're ever going to meetLittle does he know that the
leaders who are called thealmighty tallest, they're the
leaders of his people becausethey're the tallest. Oh, that's
poor people, and they'reidentical. They're identical
because two of them, they'reidentical because they're the
same height. They sent him theearth to get rid of him. But he
(39:36):
doesn't know this, all right?And as bad as this sounds, he's
actually trying to destroyEarth. He's the he's the
protagonist. The antagonist isthe kid who knows that. He's an
invader trying to take over theearth. But nobody believes
him. It sounds like residentalien.
It may be maybe a little similarto resident alien.
(39:56):
I mean, it sounds good. I mean,it's no tribal but I'm wearing a
t shirt
that. That character, Dib. Yes,dib is the is the antagonist
who's always foiling theprotagonist, Zim. But this is,
this is that kind of faci thingthat DIB wears on every episode.
What's the
one you're watching? Primal? Iwatched primal on it was adults.
(40:18):
It was like a five season AdultSwim cartoon, but very bloody,
very gory, very violent, and agreat soundtrack. So it's I've
talked about it on severalepisodes, but I binged it, and
I'll probably watch it again.It's a T Rex and a caveman who
neither one of them can speak,but they befriend each other and
they travel the world on anadventure. Wow,
(40:40):
dude, see, that's what you want,dude, a buddy, a bro thing,
which dude I'm telling you,interspecies
bro, yes, story amazing. It'slike,
you know, speaking of Adult Swimagain, hopefully I can say this
world case, totally Yeah, dude.We have no sponsors. Metal,
ocalis, have you guys seenmetal? Oh
yeah, I've seen them. I've seensome of the musicians from that
play live, really, at the Improvon Melrose in LA talk
(41:03):
about soundtrack. Dude, Geneholder, dude, that show dude,
dude, is incredible. If youstill don't watch it for the
music, it's incredible.
But a metal locker is that onAdult Swim metal? I don't
think they're not. It's not onAdult Swim anymore. But again, I
bought it Apple TV, Apple TV,but it's out there. You can find
it anywhere. But it's just thisreally cool show about this, the
(41:26):
internal life of rock stars,yes, who and they literally are,
like, the eighth largest economyby themselves, really on the
planet. I'm not gonna spoil ittoo much. Just watch it. It's
awesome. And
so speaking of gene, Hoagland,do you play fast double bass? Do
you like that? I
don't play fast double bass asfast as gene does. Who does I
(41:48):
mean, jeez. But yes, I dig somedouble bass. When I think
Lombardo fast, I never reallyheard gene. It depends
on who you ask. A lot of peoplewould say that when it comes to
that metal double bait, thatgene is, like the gold standard,
but, but I'm not saying thatother guys aren't right, but
gene is also hella musical. Imean, just, he's just really
(42:13):
musical. I'm not saying otherguys aren't right, but, but,
yeah, he's that metal dude thatjust, but
you know who my metal guy wasVinnie aposy, yes. Car mine's
brother, yes. And he wasn't adouble Basser. He just had a
nice, strong right foot. Andthen my double bass chops come
from Carmine, and it's moreabout power than speed. So I got
(42:33):
a lot of power and but I'm moreof like a slow foot me and like
Clapton, slow hand, slow footwould be this amazing band.
Yeah,
that's the challenge that I'vebeen having with the Huey thing,
really, is that they want me to,like, at the end of new drug,
they want to accent all the hornblah, you know, they want to,
(42:54):
like, kind of do back, like,little, you know, you could do
that, you know, like, what Billdoes in the second part of that
mood got to and he goes, go backto the groove. Yeah, they want
it done in every single section.And you listen to some of the
other drummers that they have,they're
(43:14):
like, more always, are
you saying you'd like to be able
to do that? I don't write. I'mat the age where I'm like, I
don't need to, like, once abouta time, I'd be like, Oh my gosh,
I gotta learn how to play likethat. Like, I watched Jelly
Rolls drummer a couple of Codyash. Cody ash, that dude is a
beast. He's fast. He's reallyfast. And, you know, but it's
(43:35):
all the stuff that he's doing.He's doing a like, you know, a
lot of like, variations with thekick at the toms and stuff like
that. Dare
I say he's got, he had somelike, you called him modern
gospel chops. It's gospel chopsmeets Prague metal. Okay, right?
And he's mixing it up. Yeah,he's playing with this guy named
Jelly Roll crazy. It's nuts.He's
(43:56):
like, a metal drummer that foundhimself a country gig. Totally.
Well, you know, I mean it. Maybeyou don't want to, you don't
care about it, but you know JoJoMeyer, great drummer. Love that
dude to death. He's like a realdrummer playing electronica,
yeah. But anyway, he's anincredible teacher as well. Yes.
And his advice for guys who wantto play faster is just, it's not
(44:19):
all about just building up yourchops to get to a certain speed.
You literally have to learn,have to have to learn to think
faster, to play faster. And he'snot saying just thought, after
thought, after thought, Ithought. That's not what he
means. He's saying you have toadjust your mind, yes, to the
speed of what you want to do,and it can get you there fast.
He's got a whole thing aboutYeah. And JoJo Meyer, I'm
(44:41):
telling you, just as atechnician, the he's pretty
amazing. He is because
when he does his Samba, youknow, so like when I do a samba,
it starts to pick up swinging,digging, digging, digging,
digging, right? But he'sthinking he's got that second
note in there, right? So he'sright, right? He's got this
thing where he can get all fourNo. In there. And I have to
cheat it, you know, we're mosthuman drummers. Don't take again
(45:04):
gig again, Mere Mortals. Yes,it's
crazy. We all have the samemusculature, though, and bone
structure, but
some guys might have sort of,like a they're fast
Twitchers. There's Twitchers.They're fast Twitchers. Yeah,
yeah. And I guess, and I guessyou can build that up to a
certain degree, but you know, alot of stuff is, is, I mean, I
(45:24):
hate to say it like this, but Ijust think there's a truth to
it, because it sounds like noneof us have access to it, which
is not the case. Some guys,honestly, they have a there's
gift to it. I mean, I think alot, most a lot of museums, are
really gifted, but, but we'reall different. We're gifted
differently. Even if we play thesame instrument, we're gifted
differently. And you know, andif you do things a little
slower, that's fine, too. Maybeyou're more musical, you know,
(45:46):
because it's not about how muchyou can play or how much bass
you can fill up. I actuallyenjoy musicians, honestly, not
because of the less they play,but they know what to play,
where to play it, when to playit, and they're literally there,
not necessarily not to be seen,but they're a servant in how
they approach it. If they'remusical,
like you're talking about now,to your point earlier that you
(46:08):
made, that the song is gonnatell you what it needs. Yeah,
it's gonna tell you what itneeds. And that's musical
maturity. That's musicianshipmaturity, to me, that you know,
even as I'm getting back intoit, I've been playing since I'm
1112, years old, but for thelongest time, and what's working
against me is the fact that, youknow, building up the muscle
memory and the chops going inthinking that it's simple music
(46:31):
to play, which it is not like, Ihad a guy come up to me this
morning. He goes, he's like,Well, that's pretty much
straight head music. I'm like,Dude, you think it is simple,
simple stuff. Dude, can be like,for real challenging, because
simple stuff, especially if, ifit's, if it's meant to work, it
is what it is, you know, it'ssimple, it stands on its own.
Well, you have to handle it alittle, a little differently,
(46:53):
because it's simple. It doesn'tneed you to. And I'm not talking
about playing less. I'm justsaying it's just, it's a
simplicity to it. Well, he hadmade
the comment. He says, Well, it'snot like, it's, you know, you're
playing Neil Pierre, I said,Neil Peart stuff. You knew it
was complicated, right? I said,Try playing if this is it. Yeah,
six got dude, got dude.
(47:14):
That's a lot harder. But feel,feel is, I mean, not being
insulting towards anybody feel,a lot of times, it's something
that a lot of people don't have.You know, field is the kind of
thing. You're definitely born init. Well, you can develop and
develop it, but, but it's thekind of thing that I think
personally feel. Feel is one ofthose things that, in some
(47:36):
instances, you have to want it.You have to want to have great
feel I mean, I've gotten, I'vegotten jobs before
based on your feeling, yeah?Because
this Gerald is a guy's a greatfeeler. Yeah, he's making, he
makes life easy for the rest ofus. He's musical. He understand
how this thing's supposed tofeel. Yeah? And, you know,
(47:56):
without being too technical oranything like that, because I
know some dudes that they don'tgive a credit, they don't want
to talk about the technicality.Technicalities of anything. I
just want you to feel thisthing. I want to have to not
look her back. I don't want tohave to not look back at Yes,
yes, yes, yes. That's the worstI've had in these that would
there were just absolute tyrantsin the rehearsal room. And they
(48:17):
would tell you, you know, dude,I you know. You ask them, Am I
doing a good job? Because youwant to get feedback. And they
go, Well, I tell you what. Theygo, Well, I tell you what. You
know, when people are dancing atthe gig, I'll let you know if
you're doing if you did a goodjob.
That was the ultimate test inthis. In the 80s and 90s,
playing in dance bands, weddingbands, corporate bands, how many
people? How long you could keep?Can you
make that shuffle, bounce,
(48:38):
yeah. Can you Yeah? Can you makethat thing dance? Can you make
yourself without, yeah, so, Imean, there are a lot of
different ways to evaluatethings, but, but speed is great,
but, well,
I mean, it's, it serves apurpose to a certain kind of
audience. So you listen to like,but I came up it was I listened
to, you know, Van Halen was ahuge influence on me. Then it
could be, it became rush, and myplaying level went up a whole
(49:00):
lot more. And then, you know, Igot into, like, the heavier
bands, metallic and Anthrax wasa big influence on me, but that
was all thrash speed and allthat kind of, and I used to play
all the fast double bass stuff,but it just didn't stick, you
know, because it's like, okay,
yeah, you know what you guyshave in common? What
Carter? Yeah, yeah. I was nevergonna sound like Carter, but
(49:21):
just the way Carter kind ofapproached things, to me, was
really freeing. Yeah, you know,over here, over here, yeah, but
not only that. I mean, he, hethat he and Dave in that band
have me. I mean, the guy gets tofeel over lyrics and
yeah, he's encouraged to do it,
yeah, he gets to play the exactsame set list tomorrow, but not
the same way. Yeah, in
(49:44):
the live version of antsmarching that when I was getting
in the radio in the late 90s,there was a portion of it where
he would play this. It was likethe Huertas off the symbol the
Tom and the snare drum. Youknow, over that burnt, he was
(50:05):
keeping time. And I'm, I wouldsit there and listening to it,
going, what the hell is hedoing? Yeah. And then you
finally get the 20,
does it with the feet and theChina's that that it gets right,
yeah.
And then you get under the tableand drumming the video set. Did
you have that? Yeah, I
do the hockey jersey, yes? Well,I gave it away to a kid. I
(50:30):
rocked, I did, but I had it foryears, but I gave it away my
wife. They're not flattering.No, they're not.
It's a thing. Or the the wetsuitthat he used to
never, never did the wetsu,yeah, he
used to wear, like, the spandexshirts,
amazing man. But it was designedfor him. To him, he could get
(50:50):
away with it. But the rest hegot away. But the rest of us had
to just kind of whatever, yeah,I was gonna wear the loose
hockey
jersey and do good with it.
If you're a founding member of aband and you have, you know, an
understanding with the guythat's singing those songs and
you're writing the songs. Imean, it's like everything was
lined up perfectly for him to beable to play the way he wants to
play, you know? I mean,unbelievable.
(51:10):
Well, well, but I'm on a richgush a little bit. Yeah, you
know? I mean, you're a foundingmember of a band, as far as I
know.
Yeah, this has been the richRedmond show. Subscribe, rate
and follow along at richredmond.com, forward, slash
podcasts you.
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