September 9, 2025 • 51 mins
What does it take to lead through discomfort, own your mistakes, and keep showing up? In this episode, John Bratsakis, President of the MD|DC Credit Union Association, joins James in the studio for an unfiltered conversation on leadership, accountability, and the quiet strength of consistency.
They explore the professional lessons learned through failure, how presence outweighs perception, and why the ability to self-assess—honestly and early—might be the most underrated leadership skill we have. From early missteps to fostering 170 dogs, John shares personal stories that challenge us to rethink what it really means to lead through change.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
UNKNOWN (00:00):
Music.
SPEAKER_00 (00:05):
For those of you that know John Bratzakis over in
Maryland, D.C.
area, you know him as a greatdulcet velvet tone to come from
his voice, but also a powerfulmind and a way of organizing
people and places and things tohelp elevate the professional
development of many of thosearound him.
In the conversation that he andI had in the Right Kind of
Uncomfortable studios, he sharedwith us answers to many
(00:27):
difficult and scratchy questionsfrom professional development
and what that looks liketraditionally to some of the
other variables that impact Allright, I want to welcome John
(00:57):
Bratakis to the Right Kind ofUncomfortable podcast.
Thank you so much for takingsome time out of your very busy
schedule.
People are visiting these daysto join me, to join us, and to
share a little bit about who youare, what you do, and what it's
like to be uncomfortable in yourspace at times.
So with that said, I want you tointroduce yourself in whatever
(01:18):
way you think is best that we,the common folk, can understand
you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:26):
So the standard introduction, you know, John
Brad Sikas, President ofMaryland D.C.
Critting Association, been incritting for Jeez, 36 years now
in a variety of roles frommanagement trainee to this role.
And out here in Maryland, D.C.,originally from the Midwest,
(01:46):
Indiana, Chicago area.
Have family.
My wife and I, we have threekids.
We also have lots of dogs.
We foster dogs all the time.
We've got four of our own, alongwith some chickens and birds.
And we have a lot of It can beat any other time, maybe some
(02:07):
quail at the same time.
So kind of a mix of the, youknow, rural kind of things.
And then just with our kids andkids are all over California,
College Park, Maryland, and upin York, Pennsylvania.
So it's kind of spread outeverywhere, but it's also great
to keep in touch and keeps a lotof variety in our life.
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
I can only imagine.
How long have you been married?
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
Been married.
know this really well.
29 years next month.
SPEAKER_00 (02:40):
29 years next month.
I assume that there's somemassive plan for the 29th
anniversary.
SPEAKER_01 (02:46):
No, not a big plan.
Just relaxing.
Usually it's just kind of quietto go.
We had plans for our 25th to goto Iceland and bring the family.
But then there was COVID.
So I think once the youngestone's out of college, then we'll
be able to think about doingthat again.
SPEAKER_00 (03:08):
Gotcha.
And four dogs of your own.
And how many do you generallyfoster at any given time?
SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
At any given time, it can be up to the biggest we
ever had was including our four.
We had 17 with the litter mom.
We had a couple of hangover momsthat didn't quite get adopted
right away.
We've got seven coming thisthird next Thursday.
But we what makes it unique iswe usually get get pregnant
(03:37):
fosters and then we get them tolike eight weeks.
And it's really my wife.
I can't take all the credit orany credit really other than I
help feed and clean a littlebit.
But ironically, she starteddoing videos to help get them
adopted, threw it on TikTok, andnow she's got tens of thousands
of followers.
(03:57):
Oh, wow.
It's pretty funny.
So it's a pretty cool thing.
Nice.
But it can be a lot.
We've done over probably about160 or 170 over the last five
years.
SPEAKER_00 (04:11):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (04:12):
That's
SPEAKER_00 (04:13):
a whole other career.
It's not a hobby.
This is beyond the hobby.
SPEAKER_01 (04:19):
Yeah.
I think it's might be or anobsession that she has, I guess,
you know, but but it's fun.
I can't lie.
It's it really is.
And then when you see him getadopted, it's a whole nother
kind of thing, because usuallythere's families involved.
So it's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00 (04:33):
So when you when you gave us your introduction, you
talked about being a managementtrainee, which for many of us,
that trainee side of our careerseems like 100 years ago in
time.
But in memories, it's just it's30 seconds ago.
Right.
It's still fresh and of ourminds that way.
And when you and I have talkedabout your professional journey,
part of it that comes in is youkicked off as a younger than
(04:58):
expected significant leader inthe organization.
And that was part of how you cutyour teeth.
And I wonder what lessons youlearned there and what was
taught to you, either from thementor or the coach or the
advocate or from falling on yourface and having to get up eight
more times.
SPEAKER_01 (05:20):
Yeah, that's a big question, right?
So I was blessed to be kind offortunate to be at the right
place at the right time.
It was a large credit union,young leaders at the time in
their 40s running the largestcredit union in the state of
Indiana, both the CEO, the COO,who was my boss, and the CFO.
(05:45):
And I think the hardest partwas, and maybe it's because my
perspective a lot comes fromathletics and you know
competitive things so you'realways in this mode of okay i
just gotta i want to keep movingforward i want to have a career
so you got opportunities andthey would allow you to stumble
(06:06):
to fail um and get back up and ithink right athletics or let's
say my brother was a wonderfulmusician you know things don't
go well you get you got to pickup because there's another play
there's another game there'sanother concert.
There's another performance.
But the challenge was whenyou're younger, you think
(06:26):
everybody might have your back.
And then at some point yourealize, wow, I really thought
people had my back.
And one of the earliest lessonsI learned was I had a big
project because I was in a rolethat was significantly impacted
the back office of theorganization.
(06:48):
And we were getting ready tolaunch a new product and we got
right to the very end of theproduct and I'll never forget
there was a senior managementperson on this team and I had
asked the questions in Lookingback, I knew after it happened
that I didn't ask the rightquestion.
(07:09):
I asked the question, but itwasn't the right question.
And as soon as he asked it, hesaid, that's it.
We're shutting this projectdown.
Oh, wow.
And, you know, we're going tohave to get this fixed.
Went to the CEO, said, you know,I told you John was too young,
you know, et cetera.
So I get called to the CEO'soffice and he goes, so what the
(07:31):
F happened?
And I said, I don't know.
I thought I asked the rightquestions, but I didn't ask the
right question.
And he just looked at me and hesaid, all right, go fix it.
Nice.
And as I was leaving, hisassistant was there who is
wonderful.
And I had known her and I'd beenthere four or five years by now.
(07:52):
And she said, good answer,Johnny.
She goes, cause I've got yourfile right here.
She goes, you know, I, I justtook accountability, but had I
not, the message was, had I nottaken accountability, there's my
personnel file and it would havebeen a former personnel file.
I think, at that point.
But they gave me the opportunityto go fix it and work on it.
(08:18):
So that was probably my firstbig lesson, right?
I think we learn...
More so, like with managers,I've had incredible mentors,
incredible examples, but youprobably learn as much or more
from those that weren't verygood.
SPEAKER_00 (08:34):
So if I'm hearing you right, that first lesson, it
wasn't necessarily about thequote unquote mistake because it
was more about when the timecame after the mistake.
I have to take accountabilityand I have to be able to explain
why we are here and then takeaccountability for that.
And And I guess if I'm hearingright, then stop, right?
(08:58):
There is no, you know, bring inother people and how they could
have informed me better.
It's, this is what happened.
This is how I understand theproblem.
This is what I could have doneor should have done or didn't
do.
And then it's on me.
SPEAKER_01 (09:13):
Yep.
Yeah, I, you know, it's a great,it's a great point.
And there were just a lot ofthose along the way, right?
And I think I heard a friend ofmine and once say the hardest
part about managing is, youknow, as a senior executive,
especially, you know, you'realways looking at the 20,000
(09:35):
foot level, but every now andthen you gotta go down to the 50
foot level.
But the hardest part is knowingwhen to pull back out, back up
to that 50,000 foot, 25,000 footlevel.
And I find that, right, becausewe've all kind of been there in
certain roles.
So it's easy to kind of get backinto the swing of it.
(09:55):
And the accountability part ofthe lesson to me went back to
sports.
I remember I had a specific, myjob as an outside linebacker was
to stop the option play.
Like, don't let the guy getoutside you.
I thought I was making adecision.
I went inside.
SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
So those of us who are not as up to speed on the
option play, like I'm a fifthgrader, what is that?
SPEAKER_01 (10:21):
So the quarterback and the running back start to
move all, let's say to the leftand the quarterback will hold
onto the ball till he's eitherhit and he'll pitch it off to
the running back or he'll keepit and cut up and run inside of
you.
My job was to watch for the guyrunning around the outside.
(10:42):
I went where I wasn't supposedto, to the quarterback guy
scores a touchdown.
I come off the field and ourhead coach just is screaming at
me.
And I finally just looked at himand I, he goes, do you know what
happened do you realize I said Iwas there I saw him score I know
I don't know what you want me todo and my defensive coordinator
(11:03):
came up and he just put his andhe was the screamer normally and
he just put his arm around me hegoes you know what not to do
again and that was all he saidand again that was just like
that CEO when he told me go fixit it wasn't I don't need to
tell somebody if they mess theyknow I think it's how do you and
(11:24):
that's right the big change, Ithink, in management and
leadership is it's become moreof a coaching analogy than it is
do what I tell you to do.
SPEAKER_00 (11:34):
So you and I have talked a lot about sort of
generational challenges in theworkplace with the different
generations being there and themanagement of them and so on and
so forth.
And you said something that Iwant to just sort of double
click into that.
I don't have to tell people whenthey mess up.
They know.
Do they?
SPEAKER_01 (11:56):
Well, probably not 100% of the time.
But when it's an issue likethat, or I think if it's
something that's significant,most of the time, I believe they
do.
And they might be embarrassed toadmit it.
None of us like to admitmistakes.
And I get that.
I think part of that is because,you know, it's hopefully people,
(12:24):
and especially I think for someyounger folks, is to be
self-aware.
Sometimes I think we're eithertaught to be self-aware, you get
that from who you've beenmentored or where you've worked,
or you don't, and it'simportant.
So I do have found that mostpeople understand, and if they
(12:45):
don't, when you point it out,the next time they recognize
that it's happened for that.
But yeah, I do think, again, Noteverything's as glaring as, you
know, dropping the ball on a bigproject or letting somebody
score the touchdown or, youknow.
(13:05):
But there are those cases whereI think...
people know that I had aresponsibility.
And that's part of clarity as aleader, right?
Is giving clarity of what'sexpected.
And then norm, I would say inmost cases, people will
recognize when they don't dowhat is expected.
SPEAKER_00 (13:23):
So if in the big situation, someone knows I
didn't meet the standard, Ididn't do what needed to be
done, so there's knowledge of Ididn't make it.
Do you think that there is equalvisibility self-awareness that
of what I did to not accomplishthe goal.
(13:49):
Do you think that that is anequal measure to we didn't win?
We didn't meet the standard.
We didn't meet the deadline.
That clarity, let's call that90%.
Do you think there's theawareness of here's how I
interacted in it in order for itnot to happen?
Do you think that's at 90%?
That
SPEAKER_01 (14:13):
I would say no.
I think a lot of times we maynot recognize what we did or
there's times where people justdon't believe that that
contributed to whatever it was.
You know, I did my part.
This is what I was asked.
That's the role.
And I think that's thechallenging part with leadership
(14:35):
sometimes is you have to, andyou have to do it in the moment
or very close to the moment.
If somebody isn't, doesn'trecognize their contribution to
whether it's the success orwhether it's to the challenges
of not meeting the goal and, youknow, speaking to it while it's
fresh and while it's thereversus waiting a long time.
SPEAKER_00 (14:55):
I think that's a hundred percent right.
You know, I was talking with aclient yesterday and saying that
you have to have a process thatis solid and strong and like a
strong skeleton and then themeat and tendons and skin you
put on it may make each personlook different but in this case
it'd be no matter what projectwe have afterwards we have a
review to say how we did if wedid really well who's
(15:17):
accountable for how we did welland we're going to celebrate
them and we're going to learnfrom that and if it didn't go
well we're going to ask the samekinds of questions see who's
responsible for that and thenyou know figure out how to
celebrate learn from from fromthat as well but the problem has
to be the same.
I'm not altogether certain thatsome colleagues know the part of
(15:42):
humility that is taught.
They may know the part ofhumility that is in their bones,
but then how do I activate onthat humility?
And how do I activate on thatsort of what's next, right?
I'm willing take accountabilityit was me but then what am i
(16:06):
what's next you know
SPEAKER_01 (16:08):
yeah i was told early on as a manager or
supervisor or whatever early onthat you know when you come to
work john no matter what's goingon at home or no matter how bad
your day is whether somebodyelse has caused it whether you
know you're ultimatelyresponsible for those the your
team um you don't let your teamsee that.
(16:33):
Cause you know what?
If you're having challenges withme, my boss, it was like, that's
not their problem.
Your problems aren't theirproblems.
And they'll feel that if you, ifyou bring that with you and that
that's one of those nuggets thatkind of always stick out that it
can be tough.
It can be frustrating.
Um, but you just gotta, youknow, that that's not your
(16:56):
team's issue.
SPEAKER_00 (16:58):
How do you, how do you balance that?
Um, lesson with the vulnerableleader, the transparent leader,
the quote unquote authenticleader, that it's important for
you to be a full sort of human.
And if you had a bumpyconversation with your boss that
(17:20):
kind of punched you in the gutand you're not feeling at your
best right now, you know, or,you know, one of the kids called
you and said whatever they said,and now your day went from a
nine and a half to a 7.2 youknow how do you balance out the
your challenges aren't theirchallenges with today's version
(17:40):
of being authentic vulnerabletransparent leader
SPEAKER_01 (17:45):
well I so being transparent if somebody asks you
know is everything okay what'sgoing on you know just saying
it's all good just you knowhaving a rough day but I think
being authentic is not beingfake right and I mean I think I
think you can maybe not have theenergy level of a 10 every day
or a nine and a half.
(18:05):
You can have that energy levelof seven, as long as you're not
bringing other people down withyou.
Right.
That's not, I mean, you know,the role.
And I do think if now, if I'vehad a challenge with, let's say
my board where we're having anissue with some of, you know, we
haven't hit the mark onsomething.
Yeah.
I will go back to the team andsay, okay, everybody, here's,
(18:26):
you know, where we are.
You talked about doing, youknow, that process we get
together after every event.
and talk about what wassuccessful, what wasn't.
And we've been, knock on wood,very fortunate to do some really
powerful programming that's at anational level that we get
feedback all the time that thisis as if it's a national
(18:48):
conference or a program likewhen we did our DEI
certification with GeorgetownUniversity.
We do that.
The hardest part to your pointis when you're doing that it's
about yes we know the thingsthat we've done well but what do
we need to do to make it betteri think for some that's well but
(19:12):
we did a really good job it'slike okay that is what we did
but we've got to look at how dowe improve how do we keep moving
forward how do we make itdifferent um where were the gaps
if there were gaps and thatsometimes i think is hard for
people to to get because it canbe viewed that you don't
appreciate what's going on.
(19:33):
So that's, for me, I'm just veryupfront.
And that was hard when I startedhere because some of our team
were like, so you don't thinkwe're doing a good job?
It's like, no, I didn't saythat.
I just said we had a greatevent, but how are we to make it
better?
How do we make it where peoplewant to come back?
SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
Yeah, I think that mindset can be difficult for
some people to absorb, thatyou're continually critical,
continually trying to getbetter, and it can feel to them,
depending on their own lifeexperiences, like I'm doing the
best I can and he just keepscoming down on me.
And teaching that this is acontinual improvement mindset,
(20:11):
right?
And I think that, you know, Ican see very clearly how some of
that comes from an athleticmindset.
Well, that play is over.
That game is over.
The championship we won lastyear, that was with that team.
We had a whole different teamnow, right?
SPEAKER_01 (20:25):
Yeah.
Yep.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's right where, you know, Ithink exactly where that mindset
comes from.
And I think you find that ingreat organizations, too.
You find that with credit unionsthat are incredibly successful.
And the year you had a greatyear, well, guess what?
Your financials start at zeroJanuary 1.
(20:48):
That's right.
And working at, when I was atBaxter Credit Union, their board
were a lot of Fortune 100, 500company senior executives.
And when we went through thegreat recession, session, we as
an industry had what they calledstabilization.
There was money in the insurancefund that had to be replenished
(21:10):
for failures and differentthings.
And we were told that the ratiosfrom the examination standpoint
will be looked at prestabilization expense and post.
But for your exam, they're onlygoing to look at pre
stabilization because that's anunexpected loss you're going to
have to take.
(21:31):
So the gentleman was the CFO ofone of the large corporations.
He looks at us after the examand he says, well, I think we
should give you all 12 months.
But after that 12 months, theonly thing that matters is
what's the bottom line?
What's the final number?
Not pre-post.
Because when I have to doquarterly earnings on Wall
Street, I don't get to say,well, you know, if it wasn't for
(21:54):
this downturn in the economy, wewould be performing a lot
better.
And that, again, was anothergreat lesson of it's tough, but
you got to suck it up.
SPEAKER_00 (22:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and there, there also isthere, it's a slight sort of
genderization to it, right?
So terms like suck it up, um,athletic connection, especially
as we go backwards when thereweren't as many, uh, ladies in
athletics as there are today,athletic examples and coaching
examples and the lessons thatcome from that, that we would
(22:27):
then use in business, um, wouldbe, it would feel different to
different people.
And one of the lenses that mightmake that feel different might
be gender as people sort of camethrough, the phrases that we've
learned, the examples that weuse, et cetera, et cetera.
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
Yeah.
And I do get reminded of thatoften by some folks.
I think, you know, hey, to yourpoint, like what's an option
play?
Like, exactly.
But I think about that, whetheryou're a musician, if you were
in theater, right?
Theaters, I think, watching mydaughter go through that, you
know, it's probably even moredevastating because, you know,
(23:06):
you're fighting to be part of ateam or for a part.
And there's only one.
Right.
In football, there's 11 spots onthat side of the ball that you
can try to fight for, butthere's only one lead.
Right.
And in a play or a movie.
So that's
SPEAKER_02 (23:25):
that's
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
the analogy to competition crosses all those
barriers.
Right.
Are all those different genres.
So, uh, Let me do a hard switchhere.
You and I have talked about afew of your paths and journeys,
and I wonder if we might be ableto explore one that has been
happening for you for a whilenow.
When I saw you the first time,I'm like, okay, no, John, saw
(23:46):
him at ACUC.
And then I saw him next, like,you look a little different.
What's going on with you?
And I couldn't really make senseout of it in my head, but then
you told me a story.
So I wonder if you might talk alittle bit about that journey.
And then to some extent, whatare the lessons that have
SPEAKER_01 (24:04):
come out of that.
Sure.
So you're referencing my weightloss journey, which I don't, you
know, it's something where itwas just became personal.
You start looking at pictures,you start realizing like, Oh my
God, what happened to me?
Um, but again, it, it's achallenge, right?
(24:24):
And it's something that only wedo to ourselves.
Um, it's, it's an easy formula.
You want to lose weight.
It's simple formula, eat less,move more, but you got to
execute like anything.
And so I just started thatprocess changing, you know,
habits, changing what I wasdoing, And yeah, it was a slow
(24:45):
journey.
It was about, you know, 24months, 70 pounds.
Wasn't until you get to like 50that people are like, hey, you
know, like my assistant waslike, you know, your pants
really don't fit.
You really need to get newpants.
So, but again, it gets back to,yeah, I used to be very
disciplined.
I mean, 20 years of working outall the time and being
(25:08):
competitive in sports and doingthat.
And then somebody said, well,well, life gets in the way.
I'm like, well, I let life getin the way.
Um, there's no excuse.
Yeah.
So just, you know, turning tothat and trying to focus on that
and, um, just realizing I'm notgetting any younger.
(25:30):
Um, so it, that, that's wherethat was.
And just applying that, youknow, Hey, got to get up early
again, got to just watch whatyou're doing, um, and focus on
that.
And, uh, yeah, people have beenvery kind, but it was, it was
interesting.
Like the first year, it wasn'tvery noticeable.
I, I could feel it or, um, causeright.
You put on a pair of pants or abelt and you, you realize, Oh
(25:53):
yeah, that worn out notch is nowfarther down than it used to be,
which is nice.
Um, so that, yeah, so that,that's, that's been, and it's
been a journey, but again, itwas, what's the longterm goal
knowing that it's not going tohappen overnight.
Um, it wasn't something thatwas, you know, it was going to
be a process.
It was going to be, um,something that was, you know
(26:14):
need to focus on and it's stilla battle I think I told you
earlier before we startedrecording we had our big gala
last night and they have theseincredible desserts out that
everybody's raving about and mygod I'll just try one or it
would have been probably try allof them you know things of that
nature so
SPEAKER_00 (26:33):
did you do you find that on the in those hard
moments whether it's the workoutmoment or they get up early or
they drink more water or theydon't get dessert moments and
you're digging in to yourself tofind some self-inspiration, do
you go all the way back toathletic examples or do you go
slightly further back, not asfar back, to business examples
(26:55):
where, hey, I stayed up allnight to produce a great
presentation.
It didn't go well and I had toget a better presentation.
I stuck to it.
I did it then.
I can do it now.
Or do you go way back to theathletic stuff?
Where are you being motivated?
I think
SPEAKER_01 (27:11):
probably both.
The weight loss issue isprobably probably more to my
athletic stuff, because it usedto be, you know, we were like,
God, why do you work out, or whydo you lift, or why do you, you
know, it was, I remember it was,you know, you get up, I used to
get up at 4.30, 5 o'clock in themorning, and, you know, when I
first got married, becausethat's what we could do, and we
had my first, our daughter, andyou go through that, and that's
what you did, and then we, childnumber two, and then three,
(27:36):
right, and then you just kindof, you realize it's not,
there's no one thing, it's justthat combination, and it's
always like, well, okay, I'lljust have it this time.
I won't have it next time.
And then it's like day two comesby.
Well, I'll do that on day threeor day four.
And then next thing you know,you look back and they're just
like putting off a presentation.
(27:57):
Well, I'll work on it tomorrow.
Honestly, that happens.
Our calendars get clogged.
Somebody once talked about, thisgentleman talks about 164.
It's the number of hours in aweek.
And if you say yes to something,you don't get 160 So, you know,
what are you going to do, youknow, in that 168 is sleeping
(28:19):
and exercise and work and mealsand interactions with friends.
And that probably was a bigpiece of what I go back to
about.
Okay.
So cherry blossom, our cherryblossom race is coming up in
April.
If I want to do the 5k, I betterstart taking it seriously now so
(28:42):
I can, you know, get ready forthat.
SPEAKER_00 (28:45):
So for the people listening that may be going
through their own challenges, Ican tell you from a presenter's
perspective, we have the nineways in which I think that
people connect and disconnect.
And I ask people for feedback onthat.
What am I missing that connectspeople and disconnects people?
What should be number 10?
(29:06):
What should be next?
And while it's not number 10, Ithink it would come as a next
tier and very important topeople, they would say physical
appearance.
And what they mean by that, whenI sort of dig into the
conversation, it can be a littlescratchy and uncomfortable to
them, but they'll say, I'm abigger person.
(29:28):
And when I walk in the door, Iknow that impacts people,
whether they think that I'mlazy, whether they think that
I'm not smart, whether theythink that my fashions aren't on
point, whatever it might be.
Did you feel like you...
And I will also say seven oreight out of 10 of those
comments that I've received arefrom women, not from men.
(29:51):
And so what is your reactionwhen I say that?
Do you agree that size has thisimpact?
And do you think that there's adifferential for gender?
SPEAKER_01 (30:06):
Wow.
That's a big question.
Um, so yes, I thinkattractiveness matters, right?
You being a very handsome mangetting on stage.
Yes, absolutely.
Right.
It grabs it.
It invites people, right?
It draws their attention.
Um, so when you start speaking,you already have their
attention.
(30:27):
Right.
And I do think that matters.
I think there's a lot of thatpresence piece last night at the
gala, there were, three CEOsstanding next to me, they were
all like six, three, six, four,right?
And then there's me.
And you can tell the womenlooking up and smiling at those
folks and talking, right?
(30:48):
You can see that.
And even when I think men, nodifferent when there's a
presenter, I think, and then, soyou can look the part, but then
do you have the presence, theconfidence when you walk into
the room, right?
(31:09):
a lot of times somebody can beattractive if they walk into a
room, but it's people that walkin with confidence, not because
they say they have it, right?
My favorite quote from anathlete was, you know, if you're
good, you'll tell other people,and if you're great, other
people will tell you.
And that's kind of thatconfidence of when you walk into
(31:30):
a room, you're comfortable inyour own skin.
Regardless of my size, I'vealways felt comfortable in who I
am.
and how I was brought up and thelessons that I learned as a kid
from my family.
But that's also not easy foreverybody, right?
As you know, when you're onstage, you have a command, you
(31:52):
have a presence.
When you know your speaking toneand your intonation and the way
you talk to the group and howyou can shift your message, you
do that incredibly well.
You can go from the happy,smiling James to the dead,
serious James you know, in asnap of a finger and it's
(32:13):
impactful and it matters.
There are speakers that are likethat.
And that's what I've tried.
That's where I thinkauthenticity comes from.
People will sense if you're you.
And over the years, that's whenpeople have been kind to say
that about me, but I only knowhow to be me.
(32:34):
And I think people would know ifI'm not.
SPEAKER_00 (32:36):
So if I'm hearing you right, if, If I'm Jamie
instead of James, and instead ofbeing six foot something, I'm
five foot something, but I weighthe same.
So I'm a rounder person, if youwill.
And I come to you and say, hey,I think I'm not getting
opportunities or I'm gettingnegative looks or feedback in
part because of my size.
(32:57):
You might say, look, let's talkabout these other factors.
Let's talk about your presence.
Let's talk about yourconfidence.
Let's talk about what youproduce.
When you produce it, are youmeeting deadlines?
when you walk in the room do youwalk in the room like God
designed it for you right youknow and behold I am here and
where is my theme music or doyou walk in differently you
(33:19):
would if I'm hearing you rightyou might say to me let's look
at these other things and seewhere they are because we can't
change James or Jamie even ifyou wanted to change your size
and I don't know if you do butif we wanted to we can't change
that overnight but these otherpieces maybe we can do some work
with these my paraphrase whatyou might say to me.
(33:41):
Well.
SPEAKER_01 (33:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
To your point, I can't be sixinches taller.
I'd love to be.
I was told that in college.
Like, hey, if there were twothings, John, you could go far
and play D1.
I'm like, what is it?
And they're like, if you were 60pounds heavier and six inches
taller.
I'm like, well, it's not goingto happen.
But to your point, you can'tchange what you can't change.
(34:06):
So yes, I would focus on those.
other things.
Because I do feel there's beenplenty of great speakers that
aren't the best looking at all.
I think what it really goes tois when you step on stage that
you have a command of whatyou're speaking about, that you
(34:28):
have that connection, and thatyou don't worry about what you
can't control.
Because if you do, then I thinkpeople will sense that.
They'll sense that there'ssomething that you're not
confident about and if you can'tcontrol it you can't control it
SPEAKER_00 (34:43):
can't control it so let me take another did a hard
left last time let's do a hardright this time and talk a
little bit more about sort offamily or family ish ideas
concepts impacts to our livesand as I was getting prepared
and researching more about you Isaw this connection that you
have a children's miraclenetwork and I'm interested in
(35:05):
why why children's miraclenetwork why is that important to
to you.
What have you gotten out of thatrelationship or out of that work
with them?
What's all that about?
SPEAKER_01 (35:16):
Sure.
So, you know, Children's MiracleNetwork is for credit unions is
kind of the charity, commoncharity of choice around the
country.
And for me, having three kidsand being blessed where no one
had any significant illnesses,they had a few things.
And so we have used theChildren's Hospital before.
(35:39):
But you realize how blessed youare and how, but if my son
wasn't there for six days, butmore like six months, like the
kid next to the bed next to him,that there's somewhere that they
can go to get the care they needwith the compassion that they
need, the empathy that thefamily needs.
(36:01):
So that kind of hooked me.
And then as I get into this roleout here and we do the
fundraiser, what you realizethat this network of what credit
unions do, we talk often thatit's not what we do.
It's not how we do it.
(36:21):
It's the why.
Why do we do it?
And right.
It's our passion.
Our purpose is giving back toour communities, taking care of
our members.
And Children's America Networkis one example that there's
hospitals throughout thecountry.
So there's this massive network.
And when you think about thefact that credit unions have
raised$18 million this year forCMN for hospitals, over 200
(36:44):
million over the last 20.
When you think about thosethings and you see that it also
aids where we don't think aboutis when we go on Capitol Hill in
my role and we get to talk abouthere's how credit unions
collaborate, which is differentthan other industries.
Here's how we work together todo that and make a difference in
(37:06):
our communities.
It resonated because Everycredit union has their charity
that they work with, thephilanthropic.
Gigi Hyland, who's thefoundation executive director,
always talks about, she used totalk about strategic
philanthropy.
And I've always thought that wasgreat.
(37:27):
What philanthropy is strategicfor your organization?
And if credit unions are goingto give back to their
communities, Children's MiracleNetwork hospitals are one way to
do that.
And it's one way to do that.
one that's easy to describe inthe aggregate.
SPEAKER_00 (37:44):
Before we start recording, I mentioned to you
that I went to the Bourbons,Bands and Barbecue event that
Caroline from Cornerstone CreditUnion League had.
I was driving back and I'vealways known there's a CMN
hospital kind of around the way.
It's right over there, a mile ortwo down the road.
But I'm driving back and Irealize, man, that thing is big.
(38:09):
And that's a lot of sick people,a lot of sick children.
And it shouldn't be so big,right?
But unfortunately, it has to be.
But wouldn't it be nice if itwere much smaller?
SPEAKER_01 (38:25):
Right.
Well, and then there's thatconnection between health and
finances and how finances affectyour health on both sides of it,
right?
So the devastating cost ofhealthcare if there's a
significant tragedy or asignificant illness for somebody
(38:48):
is really staggering.
So the more the hospital can doto help have the technology,
have the expertise, have thefacilities, so they not only can
help families get in and outquicker, they can get healthier
faster, which also helpsfinancially Um, and so, yeah, so
(39:12):
there's so many threads thatweave together in that
situation.
SPEAKER_00 (39:17):
I mean, to your point, there's a serious
connection between yourfinancial health and your
physical health.
SPEAKER_02 (39:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (39:24):
So as we're wrapping up here, I wonder if, um, you
might have a question or two forme that has been bouncing around
your head that may come out ofthe conversation that we've had
or something that from beforethat you want to throw out on
the table.
SPEAKER_01 (39:39):
Um, so I guess I would just start out the one
that I know I had mentionedearlier was you've been working
with credit unions but you kindof work all over the world with
different organizations and someat times credit unions might
feel that you know we're uniquein our organizations and how we
have to deal with folks I don'tsubscribe to that per se but
(40:02):
what has been your impression isit different our credit union is
different both as individualsorganizations, but also as a
collective industry?
SPEAKER_00 (40:13):
Well, one thing I would say is that credit unions
were quicker to the table tostart using language that was
more community-based and moresort of cultural language before
we even used the word cultural,right?
The language around members,right, is a different thing.
The language around families,the language around the
(40:34):
connection between the people,why it is we like this.
And it comes, I guess, you know,clearly out of the roots of of
why credit unions existed tobegin with.
So I think that that is onepiece that is accurate.
And what the challenge I thinkin today's marketplace with that
is that when you have to have aconversation about how something
that's cultural orcommunity-based impacts
(40:57):
business, there's a translationissue that can occur, right?
Why are we doing this?
That seems all touchy feely andnice and warm and sticky.
How does that impact my businessunit?
Why should I be involved inthat?
That's for the communityengagement people.
(41:18):
That's for the membershippeople.
It's not for the operationspeople or the finance people or
the marketing people per se.
So I think that that translationissue sometimes creates distance
in the ability for organizationsto be hyper productive and
profitable.
SPEAKER_01 (41:36):
So we, you, you, when you were at our convention
this year, um, we had one of theemerging leaders, our young
professionals spoke and, um, youspoke, uh, shortly after that to
help close out.
And that young professional madea comment about the audience.
(41:58):
Um, and that, well, I think 60,65, 63% of us were closer to
death than, um,
UNKNOWN (42:06):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (42:08):
Had less of our lives ahead of us.
(42:38):
of workers or newerprofessionals a difference in
how they're approaching andtheir expectations of of you
know their future of moving upin an organization or the what
they feel is expected of themand what they what they believe
(43:02):
should be expected of them itseems that times are listening
to what you're saying is thatsometimes there's a disconnect
between what they think shouldbe and maybe what their
supervisors or managers feel itshould be.
SPEAKER_00 (43:20):
So, yeah.
So let me just go half a stepbackwards and go forward.
I think that there are wobblesin communication that occur.
There are wobbles in connectionthat occur.
And the reasons for thosewobbles are one of those nine
pieces that I mentioned before.
One of them is age.
So in that particularcircumstance, you had a young
professional exceptionallyRight.
Articulate all of the wonderfulthings.
(43:40):
Right.
And she made a comment thatscratched a significant
percentage of the people in theroom.
And what happens in general isthere's a there's a nervous
laughter that occurs.
There is a well, it's true, butI'm still not comfortable with
being said out loud.
Laughter that occurs.
Right.
And I think that that's that'sall OK.
(44:02):
Right.
And we have to I'm going to bebrave enough, courageous enough
to get on the stage.
and say something that is a bitedgy, a bit funny.
Most comedy is a bit edgy,right?
The best comedians are reallyedgy.
So then I have to own the restof it too.
Let me put that example overhere for a second and come over
(44:23):
to a different one.
There's a time, and maybe thattime is still now, when people
would say, essentially,middle-aged white men have
ruined the world, right?
And there'd be nervous laughter,hee-hee, ha-ha, about that.
But what we're doing is we'rescratching the surface that
group, right?
And we may be telling the truthfrom our perspective, right?
(44:44):
We may be saying those are thefolks with the levers of power
and influence and they are theones that have been responsible
for the policies and practicesand procedures in some, right?
But the language that we use isa bit more comedic and it's
shorthand and it's TikTok andit's 120 characters and it
doesn't have context.
So I think in the absence ofproviding the context and all of
(45:05):
those other pieces, we also maynot understand and what we're
producing, which is distancebetween group A and group B.
And if we want to win, we haveto create connections between
group A and group B.
So you said what you said.
So I'm going to say what I said,because I want to figure out how
we can bring this thing backtogether.
So in the context of thisparticular young professional, I
(45:29):
said back what I said on thestage.
I think I did maybe two or threecomments about it, right?
As I'm going through and I wouldjust, hey, and you remember what
was said over here about 63% ofyou all being closer to death
you might want to pay attentionthose kinds of things right just
to create some warmth around itand then just as importantly i
have to find her after i talkand i have to say no we're good
(45:52):
right one way or another i sayyeah hey we're good i appreciate
you giving me some foundation totry to make some additional
points and then make myselfavailable to her to help uh her
along her path what business doi have using you and your
information to make mypresentation richer and not
offering myself to help make youbetter.
(46:14):
That seems quite selfish, right?
I'm going to use your stuff, butI'm also going to make myself
available so that you, I, we canbe better.
At the end of the day, for me,it's how do we come together?
How can we be more deeplyconnected?
Because deeply connected teamsand organizations win bigger and
they win more often.
UNKNOWN (46:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (46:37):
Yeah, and again, to your point, it reminded me of
that person sitting in theaudience was probably
uncomfortable and makes me thinkback to how when you and I
connected the first time and myinvolvement with AACUC was, you
know, it's all about what youlearned and what I learned from
(47:00):
my perspective was, especiallyin 2020, you got to learn pretty
quickly to get comfortable beinguncomfortable because that was
the reality of and that appliesto everything not just what was
happening in 2020 but I think inthat instance right and I think
(47:20):
as leaders you have to be youhave to be comfortable being
uncomfortable because you mightnot make popular decisions they
don't all work right yourrelationships don't always work
so you gotta find a way to getcomfortable with that
SPEAKER_00 (47:33):
I think that you're 100% right I also believe that
since the before 2020, too manyof us became comfortable making
people uncomfortable.
Without
SPEAKER_01 (47:44):
question.
SPEAKER_00 (47:45):
Right.
And a lot of people got kickedin the gut, punched in the
liver, kicked in the groin,slapped in the face.
And that was the norm.
And it seemed like, OK, that'sfine.
You know, we're going to have ayoung person's panel and
somewhere in that young person'spanel are going to be a few
sideways insults to olderpeople.
We're going to have a women'spanel and somewhere on that
(48:06):
women's panel, there's goinggoing to be some sideways
insults to menfolk, right?
We're going to have a panel ondiffering abilities.
And somewhere on that panel isgoing to be some version of
scratchy sideways insult to youable-bodied people, right?
So the same thing about parents,having kids or not, right?
Being married or not, we'vebecome affirmative in our
(48:30):
ability or desire to make themuncomfortable instead of feel
uncomfortable, right?
And for For those of us thathave touched therapy in one way
or another, we know that unhappypeople attract unhappy people,
right?
And if I haven't worked on mystuff, I might attract some
(48:51):
people who haven't worked ontheir stuff.
And it is more challenging tosit in your stuff and be
uncomfortable and then welcomethe person next to you who's a
little bit further along intheir journey to sit next to you
than to I'm going to make youuncomfortable.
So therefore, now we're bothuncomfortable together.
SPEAKER_01 (49:14):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (49:14):
Right.
Or so that I feel better.
You know, I make you feeluncomfortable, uncomfortable.
So therefore, I can feel betterand empowered.
Right.
And engaged.
And I'm doing the right thing.
And I'm speaking my truth.
And and and all these things canbe true at the same time.
But I believe that from abusiness perspective, from a
friendship perspective, from afamily perspective, that being
(49:38):
uncomfortable in the midst ofother people being uncomfortable
in equal measure is of highervalue than I'm going to make you
uncomfortable so you'reuncomfortable with me.
SPEAKER_01 (49:50):
Right.
Yeah.
Couldn't agree more.
Right.
And I think that's, but thatwhole uncomfortable part, a lot
of that, what was uncomfortablewas that there was nothing for
me to say.
Right.
It wasn't for me to say.
And that reality of recognizingthat situation and learning
(50:14):
because the lessons that werelearned oftentimes in those
situations are not right.
Looking at yourself from 20,000feet is never the same as
looking right in the, you know,look in the mirror.
It's right there.
But when you look around thecontext around you, it's a
little bit differentperspective.
SPEAKER_00 (50:32):
Excellent.
Excellent.
Well, I want to thank you forspending a bit of time with us
today to share a bunch ofdifferent stories, some family,
some personal, some business,some business and our business
and personal connect, you know,and all the extracurricular
activities, whether it's thechickens, the dogs or children
miracle network.
Thank you for sharing all ofthat.
I think that it makes us richer.
(50:53):
It makes us better.
And thank you for yourtransparency.
I appreciate that a great deal.
SPEAKER_01 (50:59):
Oh, thank you, James.
It's, it's wonderful.
Really appreciate the time andhonored to be invited.
SPEAKER_00 (51:05):
Excellent.
Excellent.
Thank you so much.
Music.
SPEAKER_00 (00:05):
For those of you that know John Bratzakis over in
Maryland, D.C.
area, you know him as a greatdulcet velvet tone to come from
his voice, but also a powerfulmind and a way of organizing
people and places and things tohelp elevate the professional
development of many of thosearound him.
In the conversation that he andI had in the Right Kind of
Uncomfortable studios, he sharedwith us answers to many
(00:27):
difficult and scratchy questionsfrom professional development
and what that looks liketraditionally to some of the
other variables that impact Allright, I want to welcome John
(00:57):
Bratakis to the Right Kind ofUncomfortable podcast.
Thank you so much for takingsome time out of your very busy
schedule.
People are visiting these daysto join me, to join us, and to
share a little bit about who youare, what you do, and what it's
like to be uncomfortable in yourspace at times.
So with that said, I want you tointroduce yourself in whatever
(01:18):
way you think is best that we,the common folk, can understand
you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:26):
So the standard introduction, you know, John
Brad Sikas, President ofMaryland D.C.
Critting Association, been incritting for Jeez, 36 years now
in a variety of roles frommanagement trainee to this role.
And out here in Maryland, D.C.,originally from the Midwest,
(01:46):
Indiana, Chicago area.
Have family.
My wife and I, we have threekids.
We also have lots of dogs.
We foster dogs all the time.
We've got four of our own, alongwith some chickens and birds.
And we have a lot of It can beat any other time, maybe some
(02:07):
quail at the same time.
So kind of a mix of the, youknow, rural kind of things.
And then just with our kids andkids are all over California,
College Park, Maryland, and upin York, Pennsylvania.
So it's kind of spread outeverywhere, but it's also great
to keep in touch and keeps a lotof variety in our life.
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
I can only imagine.
How long have you been married?
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
Been married.
know this really well.
29 years next month.
SPEAKER_00 (02:40):
29 years next month.
I assume that there's somemassive plan for the 29th
anniversary.
SPEAKER_01 (02:46):
No, not a big plan.
Just relaxing.
Usually it's just kind of quietto go.
We had plans for our 25th to goto Iceland and bring the family.
But then there was COVID.
So I think once the youngestone's out of college, then we'll
be able to think about doingthat again.
SPEAKER_00 (03:08):
Gotcha.
And four dogs of your own.
And how many do you generallyfoster at any given time?
SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
At any given time, it can be up to the biggest we
ever had was including our four.
We had 17 with the litter mom.
We had a couple of hangover momsthat didn't quite get adopted
right away.
We've got seven coming thisthird next Thursday.
But we what makes it unique iswe usually get get pregnant
(03:37):
fosters and then we get them tolike eight weeks.
And it's really my wife.
I can't take all the credit orany credit really other than I
help feed and clean a littlebit.
But ironically, she starteddoing videos to help get them
adopted, threw it on TikTok, andnow she's got tens of thousands
of followers.
(03:57):
Oh, wow.
It's pretty funny.
So it's a pretty cool thing.
Nice.
But it can be a lot.
We've done over probably about160 or 170 over the last five
years.
SPEAKER_00 (04:11):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (04:12):
That's
SPEAKER_00 (04:13):
a whole other career.
It's not a hobby.
This is beyond the hobby.
SPEAKER_01 (04:19):
Yeah.
I think it's might be or anobsession that she has, I guess,
you know, but but it's fun.
I can't lie.
It's it really is.
And then when you see him getadopted, it's a whole nother
kind of thing, because usuallythere's families involved.
So it's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00 (04:33):
So when you when you gave us your introduction, you
talked about being a managementtrainee, which for many of us,
that trainee side of our careerseems like 100 years ago in
time.
But in memories, it's just it's30 seconds ago.
Right.
It's still fresh and of ourminds that way.
And when you and I have talkedabout your professional journey,
part of it that comes in is youkicked off as a younger than
(04:58):
expected significant leader inthe organization.
And that was part of how you cutyour teeth.
And I wonder what lessons youlearned there and what was
taught to you, either from thementor or the coach or the
advocate or from falling on yourface and having to get up eight
more times.
SPEAKER_01 (05:20):
Yeah, that's a big question, right?
So I was blessed to be kind offortunate to be at the right
place at the right time.
It was a large credit union,young leaders at the time in
their 40s running the largestcredit union in the state of
Indiana, both the CEO, the COO,who was my boss, and the CFO.
(05:45):
And I think the hardest partwas, and maybe it's because my
perspective a lot comes fromathletics and you know
competitive things so you'realways in this mode of okay i
just gotta i want to keep movingforward i want to have a career
so you got opportunities andthey would allow you to stumble
(06:06):
to fail um and get back up and ithink right athletics or let's
say my brother was a wonderfulmusician you know things don't
go well you get you got to pickup because there's another play
there's another game there'sanother concert.
There's another performance.
But the challenge was whenyou're younger, you think
(06:26):
everybody might have your back.
And then at some point yourealize, wow, I really thought
people had my back.
And one of the earliest lessonsI learned was I had a big
project because I was in a rolethat was significantly impacted
the back office of theorganization.
(06:48):
And we were getting ready tolaunch a new product and we got
right to the very end of theproduct and I'll never forget
there was a senior managementperson on this team and I had
asked the questions in Lookingback, I knew after it happened
that I didn't ask the rightquestion.
(07:09):
I asked the question, but itwasn't the right question.
And as soon as he asked it, hesaid, that's it.
We're shutting this projectdown.
Oh, wow.
And, you know, we're going tohave to get this fixed.
Went to the CEO, said, you know,I told you John was too young,
you know, et cetera.
So I get called to the CEO'soffice and he goes, so what the
(07:31):
F happened?
And I said, I don't know.
I thought I asked the rightquestions, but I didn't ask the
right question.
And he just looked at me and hesaid, all right, go fix it.
Nice.
And as I was leaving, hisassistant was there who is
wonderful.
And I had known her and I'd beenthere four or five years by now.
(07:52):
And she said, good answer,Johnny.
She goes, cause I've got yourfile right here.
She goes, you know, I, I justtook accountability, but had I
not, the message was, had I nottaken accountability, there's my
personnel file and it would havebeen a former personnel file.
I think, at that point.
But they gave me the opportunityto go fix it and work on it.
(08:18):
So that was probably my firstbig lesson, right?
I think we learn...
More so, like with managers,I've had incredible mentors,
incredible examples, but youprobably learn as much or more
from those that weren't verygood.
SPEAKER_00 (08:34):
So if I'm hearing you right, that first lesson, it
wasn't necessarily about thequote unquote mistake because it
was more about when the timecame after the mistake.
I have to take accountabilityand I have to be able to explain
why we are here and then takeaccountability for that.
And And I guess if I'm hearingright, then stop, right?
(08:58):
There is no, you know, bring inother people and how they could
have informed me better.
It's, this is what happened.
This is how I understand theproblem.
This is what I could have doneor should have done or didn't
do.
And then it's on me.
SPEAKER_01 (09:13):
Yep.
Yeah, I, you know, it's a great,it's a great point.
And there were just a lot ofthose along the way, right?
And I think I heard a friend ofmine and once say the hardest
part about managing is, youknow, as a senior executive,
especially, you know, you'realways looking at the 20,000
(09:35):
foot level, but every now andthen you gotta go down to the 50
foot level.
But the hardest part is knowingwhen to pull back out, back up
to that 50,000 foot, 25,000 footlevel.
And I find that, right, becausewe've all kind of been there in
certain roles.
So it's easy to kind of get backinto the swing of it.
(09:55):
And the accountability part ofthe lesson to me went back to
sports.
I remember I had a specific, myjob as an outside linebacker was
to stop the option play.
Like, don't let the guy getoutside you.
I thought I was making adecision.
I went inside.
SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
So those of us who are not as up to speed on the
option play, like I'm a fifthgrader, what is that?
SPEAKER_01 (10:21):
So the quarterback and the running back start to
move all, let's say to the leftand the quarterback will hold
onto the ball till he's eitherhit and he'll pitch it off to
the running back or he'll keepit and cut up and run inside of
you.
My job was to watch for the guyrunning around the outside.
(10:42):
I went where I wasn't supposedto, to the quarterback guy
scores a touchdown.
I come off the field and ourhead coach just is screaming at
me.
And I finally just looked at himand I, he goes, do you know what
happened do you realize I said Iwas there I saw him score I know
I don't know what you want me todo and my defensive coordinator
(11:03):
came up and he just put his andhe was the screamer normally and
he just put his arm around me hegoes you know what not to do
again and that was all he saidand again that was just like
that CEO when he told me go fixit it wasn't I don't need to
tell somebody if they mess theyknow I think it's how do you and
(11:24):
that's right the big change, Ithink, in management and
leadership is it's become moreof a coaching analogy than it is
do what I tell you to do.
SPEAKER_00 (11:34):
So you and I have talked a lot about sort of
generational challenges in theworkplace with the different
generations being there and themanagement of them and so on and
so forth.
And you said something that Iwant to just sort of double
click into that.
I don't have to tell people whenthey mess up.
They know.
Do they?
SPEAKER_01 (11:56):
Well, probably not 100% of the time.
But when it's an issue likethat, or I think if it's
something that's significant,most of the time, I believe they
do.
And they might be embarrassed toadmit it.
None of us like to admitmistakes.
And I get that.
I think part of that is because,you know, it's hopefully people,
(12:24):
and especially I think for someyounger folks, is to be
self-aware.
Sometimes I think we're eithertaught to be self-aware, you get
that from who you've beenmentored or where you've worked,
or you don't, and it'simportant.
So I do have found that mostpeople understand, and if they
(12:45):
don't, when you point it out,the next time they recognize
that it's happened for that.
But yeah, I do think, again, Noteverything's as glaring as, you
know, dropping the ball on a bigproject or letting somebody
score the touchdown or, youknow.
(13:05):
But there are those cases whereI think...
people know that I had aresponsibility.
And that's part of clarity as aleader, right?
Is giving clarity of what'sexpected.
And then norm, I would say inmost cases, people will
recognize when they don't dowhat is expected.
SPEAKER_00 (13:23):
So if in the big situation, someone knows I
didn't meet the standard, Ididn't do what needed to be
done, so there's knowledge of Ididn't make it.
Do you think that there is equalvisibility self-awareness that
of what I did to not accomplishthe goal.
(13:49):
Do you think that that is anequal measure to we didn't win?
We didn't meet the standard.
We didn't meet the deadline.
That clarity, let's call that90%.
Do you think there's theawareness of here's how I
interacted in it in order for itnot to happen?
Do you think that's at 90%?
That
SPEAKER_01 (14:13):
I would say no.
I think a lot of times we maynot recognize what we did or
there's times where people justdon't believe that that
contributed to whatever it was.
You know, I did my part.
This is what I was asked.
That's the role.
And I think that's thechallenging part with leadership
(14:35):
sometimes is you have to, andyou have to do it in the moment
or very close to the moment.
If somebody isn't, doesn'trecognize their contribution to
whether it's the success orwhether it's to the challenges
of not meeting the goal and, youknow, speaking to it while it's
fresh and while it's thereversus waiting a long time.
SPEAKER_00 (14:55):
I think that's a hundred percent right.
You know, I was talking with aclient yesterday and saying that
you have to have a process thatis solid and strong and like a
strong skeleton and then themeat and tendons and skin you
put on it may make each personlook different but in this case
it'd be no matter what projectwe have afterwards we have a
review to say how we did if wedid really well who's
(15:17):
accountable for how we did welland we're going to celebrate
them and we're going to learnfrom that and if it didn't go
well we're going to ask the samekinds of questions see who's
responsible for that and thenyou know figure out how to
celebrate learn from from fromthat as well but the problem has
to be the same.
I'm not altogether certain thatsome colleagues know the part of
(15:42):
humility that is taught.
They may know the part ofhumility that is in their bones,
but then how do I activate onthat humility?
And how do I activate on thatsort of what's next, right?
I'm willing take accountabilityit was me but then what am i
(16:06):
what's next you know
SPEAKER_01 (16:08):
yeah i was told early on as a manager or
supervisor or whatever early onthat you know when you come to
work john no matter what's goingon at home or no matter how bad
your day is whether somebodyelse has caused it whether you
know you're ultimatelyresponsible for those the your
team um you don't let your teamsee that.
(16:33):
Cause you know what?
If you're having challenges withme, my boss, it was like, that's
not their problem.
Your problems aren't theirproblems.
And they'll feel that if you, ifyou bring that with you and that
that's one of those nuggets thatkind of always stick out that it
can be tough.
It can be frustrating.
Um, but you just gotta, youknow, that that's not your
(16:56):
team's issue.
SPEAKER_00 (16:58):
How do you, how do you balance that?
Um, lesson with the vulnerableleader, the transparent leader,
the quote unquote authenticleader, that it's important for
you to be a full sort of human.
And if you had a bumpyconversation with your boss that
(17:20):
kind of punched you in the gutand you're not feeling at your
best right now, you know, or,you know, one of the kids called
you and said whatever they said,and now your day went from a
nine and a half to a 7.2 youknow how do you balance out the
your challenges aren't theirchallenges with today's version
(17:40):
of being authentic vulnerabletransparent leader
SPEAKER_01 (17:45):
well I so being transparent if somebody asks you
know is everything okay what'sgoing on you know just saying
it's all good just you knowhaving a rough day but I think
being authentic is not beingfake right and I mean I think I
think you can maybe not have theenergy level of a 10 every day
or a nine and a half.
(18:05):
You can have that energy levelof seven, as long as you're not
bringing other people down withyou.
Right.
That's not, I mean, you know,the role.
And I do think if now, if I'vehad a challenge with, let's say
my board where we're having anissue with some of, you know, we
haven't hit the mark onsomething.
Yeah.
I will go back to the team andsay, okay, everybody, here's,
(18:26):
you know, where we are.
You talked about doing, youknow, that process we get
together after every event.
and talk about what wassuccessful, what wasn't.
And we've been, knock on wood,very fortunate to do some really
powerful programming that's at anational level that we get
feedback all the time that thisis as if it's a national
(18:48):
conference or a program likewhen we did our DEI
certification with GeorgetownUniversity.
We do that.
The hardest part to your pointis when you're doing that it's
about yes we know the thingsthat we've done well but what do
we need to do to make it betteri think for some that's well but
(19:12):
we did a really good job it'slike okay that is what we did
but we've got to look at how dowe improve how do we keep moving
forward how do we make itdifferent um where were the gaps
if there were gaps and thatsometimes i think is hard for
people to to get because it canbe viewed that you don't
appreciate what's going on.
(19:33):
So that's, for me, I'm just veryupfront.
And that was hard when I startedhere because some of our team
were like, so you don't thinkwe're doing a good job?
It's like, no, I didn't saythat.
I just said we had a greatevent, but how are we to make it
better?
How do we make it where peoplewant to come back?
SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
Yeah, I think that mindset can be difficult for
some people to absorb, thatyou're continually critical,
continually trying to getbetter, and it can feel to them,
depending on their own lifeexperiences, like I'm doing the
best I can and he just keepscoming down on me.
And teaching that this is acontinual improvement mindset,
(20:11):
right?
And I think that, you know, Ican see very clearly how some of
that comes from an athleticmindset.
Well, that play is over.
That game is over.
The championship we won lastyear, that was with that team.
We had a whole different teamnow, right?
SPEAKER_01 (20:25):
Yeah.
Yep.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's right where, you know, Ithink exactly where that mindset
comes from.
And I think you find that ingreat organizations, too.
You find that with credit unionsthat are incredibly successful.
And the year you had a greatyear, well, guess what?
Your financials start at zeroJanuary 1.
(20:48):
That's right.
And working at, when I was atBaxter Credit Union, their board
were a lot of Fortune 100, 500company senior executives.
And when we went through thegreat recession, session, we as
an industry had what they calledstabilization.
There was money in the insurancefund that had to be replenished
(21:10):
for failures and differentthings.
And we were told that the ratiosfrom the examination standpoint
will be looked at prestabilization expense and post.
But for your exam, they're onlygoing to look at pre
stabilization because that's anunexpected loss you're going to
have to take.
(21:31):
So the gentleman was the CFO ofone of the large corporations.
He looks at us after the examand he says, well, I think we
should give you all 12 months.
But after that 12 months, theonly thing that matters is
what's the bottom line?
What's the final number?
Not pre-post.
Because when I have to doquarterly earnings on Wall
Street, I don't get to say,well, you know, if it wasn't for
(21:54):
this downturn in the economy, wewould be performing a lot
better.
And that, again, was anothergreat lesson of it's tough, but
you got to suck it up.
SPEAKER_00 (22:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and there, there also isthere, it's a slight sort of
genderization to it, right?
So terms like suck it up, um,athletic connection, especially
as we go backwards when thereweren't as many, uh, ladies in
athletics as there are today,athletic examples and coaching
examples and the lessons thatcome from that, that we would
(22:27):
then use in business, um, wouldbe, it would feel different to
different people.
And one of the lenses that mightmake that feel different might
be gender as people sort of camethrough, the phrases that we've
learned, the examples that weuse, et cetera, et cetera.
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
Yeah.
And I do get reminded of thatoften by some folks.
I think, you know, hey, to yourpoint, like what's an option
play?
Like, exactly.
But I think about that, whetheryou're a musician, if you were
in theater, right?
Theaters, I think, watching mydaughter go through that, you
know, it's probably even moredevastating because, you know,
(23:06):
you're fighting to be part of ateam or for a part.
And there's only one.
Right.
In football, there's 11 spots onthat side of the ball that you
can try to fight for, butthere's only one lead.
Right.
And in a play or a movie.
So that's
SPEAKER_02 (23:25):
that's
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
the analogy to competition crosses all those
barriers.
Right.
Are all those different genres.
So, uh, Let me do a hard switchhere.
You and I have talked about afew of your paths and journeys,
and I wonder if we might be ableto explore one that has been
happening for you for a whilenow.
When I saw you the first time,I'm like, okay, no, John, saw
(23:46):
him at ACUC.
And then I saw him next, like,you look a little different.
What's going on with you?
And I couldn't really make senseout of it in my head, but then
you told me a story.
So I wonder if you might talk alittle bit about that journey.
And then to some extent, whatare the lessons that have
SPEAKER_01 (24:04):
come out of that.
Sure.
So you're referencing my weightloss journey, which I don't, you
know, it's something where itwas just became personal.
You start looking at pictures,you start realizing like, Oh my
God, what happened to me?
Um, but again, it, it's achallenge, right?
(24:24):
And it's something that only wedo to ourselves.
Um, it's, it's an easy formula.
You want to lose weight.
It's simple formula, eat less,move more, but you got to
execute like anything.
And so I just started thatprocess changing, you know,
habits, changing what I wasdoing, And yeah, it was a slow
(24:45):
journey.
It was about, you know, 24months, 70 pounds.
Wasn't until you get to like 50that people are like, hey, you
know, like my assistant waslike, you know, your pants
really don't fit.
You really need to get newpants.
So, but again, it gets back to,yeah, I used to be very
disciplined.
I mean, 20 years of working outall the time and being
(25:08):
competitive in sports and doingthat.
And then somebody said, well,well, life gets in the way.
I'm like, well, I let life getin the way.
Um, there's no excuse.
Yeah.
So just, you know, turning tothat and trying to focus on that
and, um, just realizing I'm notgetting any younger.
(25:30):
Um, so it, that, that's wherethat was.
And just applying that, youknow, Hey, got to get up early
again, got to just watch whatyou're doing, um, and focus on
that.
And, uh, yeah, people have beenvery kind, but it was, it was
interesting.
Like the first year, it wasn'tvery noticeable.
I, I could feel it or, um, causeright.
You put on a pair of pants or abelt and you, you realize, Oh
(25:53):
yeah, that worn out notch is nowfarther down than it used to be,
which is nice.
Um, so that, yeah, so that,that's, that's been, and it's
been a journey, but again, itwas, what's the longterm goal
knowing that it's not going tohappen overnight.
Um, it wasn't something thatwas, you know, it was going to
be a process.
It was going to be, um,something that was, you know
(26:14):
need to focus on and it's stilla battle I think I told you
earlier before we startedrecording we had our big gala
last night and they have theseincredible desserts out that
everybody's raving about and mygod I'll just try one or it
would have been probably try allof them you know things of that
nature so
SPEAKER_00 (26:33):
did you do you find that on the in those hard
moments whether it's the workoutmoment or they get up early or
they drink more water or theydon't get dessert moments and
you're digging in to yourself tofind some self-inspiration, do
you go all the way back toathletic examples or do you go
slightly further back, not asfar back, to business examples
(26:55):
where, hey, I stayed up allnight to produce a great
presentation.
It didn't go well and I had toget a better presentation.
I stuck to it.
I did it then.
I can do it now.
Or do you go way back to theathletic stuff?
Where are you being motivated?
I think
SPEAKER_01 (27:11):
probably both.
The weight loss issue isprobably probably more to my
athletic stuff, because it usedto be, you know, we were like,
God, why do you work out, or whydo you lift, or why do you, you
know, it was, I remember it was,you know, you get up, I used to
get up at 4.30, 5 o'clock in themorning, and, you know, when I
first got married, becausethat's what we could do, and we
had my first, our daughter, andyou go through that, and that's
what you did, and then we, childnumber two, and then three,
(27:36):
right, and then you just kindof, you realize it's not,
there's no one thing, it's justthat combination, and it's
always like, well, okay, I'lljust have it this time.
I won't have it next time.
And then it's like day two comesby.
Well, I'll do that on day threeor day four.
And then next thing you know,you look back and they're just
like putting off a presentation.
(27:57):
Well, I'll work on it tomorrow.
Honestly, that happens.
Our calendars get clogged.
Somebody once talked about, thisgentleman talks about 164.
It's the number of hours in aweek.
And if you say yes to something,you don't get 160 So, you know,
what are you going to do, youknow, in that 168 is sleeping
(28:19):
and exercise and work and mealsand interactions with friends.
And that probably was a bigpiece of what I go back to
about.
Okay.
So cherry blossom, our cherryblossom race is coming up in
April.
If I want to do the 5k, I betterstart taking it seriously now so
(28:42):
I can, you know, get ready forthat.
SPEAKER_00 (28:45):
So for the people listening that may be going
through their own challenges, Ican tell you from a presenter's
perspective, we have the nineways in which I think that
people connect and disconnect.
And I ask people for feedback onthat.
What am I missing that connectspeople and disconnects people?
What should be number 10?
(29:06):
What should be next?
And while it's not number 10, Ithink it would come as a next
tier and very important topeople, they would say physical
appearance.
And what they mean by that, whenI sort of dig into the
conversation, it can be a littlescratchy and uncomfortable to
them, but they'll say, I'm abigger person.
(29:28):
And when I walk in the door, Iknow that impacts people,
whether they think that I'mlazy, whether they think that
I'm not smart, whether theythink that my fashions aren't on
point, whatever it might be.
Did you feel like you...
And I will also say seven oreight out of 10 of those
comments that I've received arefrom women, not from men.
(29:51):
And so what is your reactionwhen I say that?
Do you agree that size has thisimpact?
And do you think that there's adifferential for gender?
SPEAKER_01 (30:06):
Wow.
That's a big question.
Um, so yes, I thinkattractiveness matters, right?
You being a very handsome mangetting on stage.
Yes, absolutely.
Right.
It grabs it.
It invites people, right?
It draws their attention.
Um, so when you start speaking,you already have their
attention.
(30:27):
Right.
And I do think that matters.
I think there's a lot of thatpresence piece last night at the
gala, there were, three CEOsstanding next to me, they were
all like six, three, six, four,right?
And then there's me.
And you can tell the womenlooking up and smiling at those
folks and talking, right?
(30:48):
You can see that.
And even when I think men, nodifferent when there's a
presenter, I think, and then, soyou can look the part, but then
do you have the presence, theconfidence when you walk into
the room, right?
(31:09):
a lot of times somebody can beattractive if they walk into a
room, but it's people that walkin with confidence, not because
they say they have it, right?
My favorite quote from anathlete was, you know, if you're
good, you'll tell other people,and if you're great, other
people will tell you.
And that's kind of thatconfidence of when you walk into
(31:30):
a room, you're comfortable inyour own skin.
Regardless of my size, I'vealways felt comfortable in who I
am.
and how I was brought up and thelessons that I learned as a kid
from my family.
But that's also not easy foreverybody, right?
As you know, when you're onstage, you have a command, you
(31:52):
have a presence.
When you know your speaking toneand your intonation and the way
you talk to the group and howyou can shift your message, you
do that incredibly well.
You can go from the happy,smiling James to the dead,
serious James you know, in asnap of a finger and it's
(32:13):
impactful and it matters.
There are speakers that are likethat.
And that's what I've tried.
That's where I thinkauthenticity comes from.
People will sense if you're you.
And over the years, that's whenpeople have been kind to say
that about me, but I only knowhow to be me.
(32:34):
And I think people would know ifI'm not.
SPEAKER_00 (32:36):
So if I'm hearing you right, if, If I'm Jamie
instead of James, and instead ofbeing six foot something, I'm
five foot something, but I weighthe same.
So I'm a rounder person, if youwill.
And I come to you and say, hey,I think I'm not getting
opportunities or I'm gettingnegative looks or feedback in
part because of my size.
(32:57):
You might say, look, let's talkabout these other factors.
Let's talk about your presence.
Let's talk about yourconfidence.
Let's talk about what youproduce.
When you produce it, are youmeeting deadlines?
when you walk in the room do youwalk in the room like God
designed it for you right youknow and behold I am here and
where is my theme music or doyou walk in differently you
(33:19):
would if I'm hearing you rightyou might say to me let's look
at these other things and seewhere they are because we can't
change James or Jamie even ifyou wanted to change your size
and I don't know if you do butif we wanted to we can't change
that overnight but these otherpieces maybe we can do some work
with these my paraphrase whatyou might say to me.
(33:41):
Well.
SPEAKER_01 (33:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
To your point, I can't be sixinches taller.
I'd love to be.
I was told that in college.
Like, hey, if there were twothings, John, you could go far
and play D1.
I'm like, what is it?
And they're like, if you were 60pounds heavier and six inches
taller.
I'm like, well, it's not goingto happen.
But to your point, you can'tchange what you can't change.
(34:06):
So yes, I would focus on those.
other things.
Because I do feel there's beenplenty of great speakers that
aren't the best looking at all.
I think what it really goes tois when you step on stage that
you have a command of whatyou're speaking about, that you
(34:28):
have that connection, and thatyou don't worry about what you
can't control.
Because if you do, then I thinkpeople will sense that.
They'll sense that there'ssomething that you're not
confident about and if you can'tcontrol it you can't control it
SPEAKER_00 (34:43):
can't control it so let me take another did a hard
left last time let's do a hardright this time and talk a
little bit more about sort offamily or family ish ideas
concepts impacts to our livesand as I was getting prepared
and researching more about you Isaw this connection that you
have a children's miraclenetwork and I'm interested in
(35:05):
why why children's miraclenetwork why is that important to
to you.
What have you gotten out of thatrelationship or out of that work
with them?
What's all that about?
SPEAKER_01 (35:16):
Sure.
So, you know, Children's MiracleNetwork is for credit unions is
kind of the charity, commoncharity of choice around the
country.
And for me, having three kidsand being blessed where no one
had any significant illnesses,they had a few things.
And so we have used theChildren's Hospital before.
(35:39):
But you realize how blessed youare and how, but if my son
wasn't there for six days, butmore like six months, like the
kid next to the bed next to him,that there's somewhere that they
can go to get the care they needwith the compassion that they
need, the empathy that thefamily needs.
(36:01):
So that kind of hooked me.
And then as I get into this roleout here and we do the
fundraiser, what you realizethat this network of what credit
unions do, we talk often thatit's not what we do.
It's not how we do it.
(36:21):
It's the why.
Why do we do it?
And right.
It's our passion.
Our purpose is giving back toour communities, taking care of
our members.
And Children's America Networkis one example that there's
hospitals throughout thecountry.
So there's this massive network.
And when you think about thefact that credit unions have
raised$18 million this year forCMN for hospitals, over 200
(36:44):
million over the last 20.
When you think about thosethings and you see that it also
aids where we don't think aboutis when we go on Capitol Hill in
my role and we get to talk abouthere's how credit unions
collaborate, which is differentthan other industries.
Here's how we work together todo that and make a difference in
(37:06):
our communities.
It resonated because Everycredit union has their charity
that they work with, thephilanthropic.
Gigi Hyland, who's thefoundation executive director,
always talks about, she used totalk about strategic
philanthropy.
And I've always thought that wasgreat.
(37:27):
What philanthropy is strategicfor your organization?
And if credit unions are goingto give back to their
communities, Children's MiracleNetwork hospitals are one way to
do that.
And it's one way to do that.
one that's easy to describe inthe aggregate.
SPEAKER_00 (37:44):
Before we start recording, I mentioned to you
that I went to the Bourbons,Bands and Barbecue event that
Caroline from Cornerstone CreditUnion League had.
I was driving back and I'vealways known there's a CMN
hospital kind of around the way.
It's right over there, a mile ortwo down the road.
But I'm driving back and Irealize, man, that thing is big.
(38:09):
And that's a lot of sick people,a lot of sick children.
And it shouldn't be so big,right?
But unfortunately, it has to be.
But wouldn't it be nice if itwere much smaller?
SPEAKER_01 (38:25):
Right.
Well, and then there's thatconnection between health and
finances and how finances affectyour health on both sides of it,
right?
So the devastating cost ofhealthcare if there's a
significant tragedy or asignificant illness for somebody
(38:48):
is really staggering.
So the more the hospital can doto help have the technology,
have the expertise, have thefacilities, so they not only can
help families get in and outquicker, they can get healthier
faster, which also helpsfinancially Um, and so, yeah, so
(39:12):
there's so many threads thatweave together in that
situation.
SPEAKER_00 (39:17):
I mean, to your point, there's a serious
connection between yourfinancial health and your
physical health.
SPEAKER_02 (39:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (39:24):
So as we're wrapping up here, I wonder if, um, you
might have a question or two forme that has been bouncing around
your head that may come out ofthe conversation that we've had
or something that from beforethat you want to throw out on
the table.
SPEAKER_01 (39:39):
Um, so I guess I would just start out the one
that I know I had mentionedearlier was you've been working
with credit unions but you kindof work all over the world with
different organizations and someat times credit unions might
feel that you know we're uniquein our organizations and how we
have to deal with folks I don'tsubscribe to that per se but
(40:02):
what has been your impression isit different our credit union is
different both as individualsorganizations, but also as a
collective industry?
SPEAKER_00 (40:13):
Well, one thing I would say is that credit unions
were quicker to the table tostart using language that was
more community-based and moresort of cultural language before
we even used the word cultural,right?
The language around members,right, is a different thing.
The language around families,the language around the
(40:34):
connection between the people,why it is we like this.
And it comes, I guess, you know,clearly out of the roots of of
why credit unions existed tobegin with.
So I think that that is onepiece that is accurate.
And what the challenge I thinkin today's marketplace with that
is that when you have to have aconversation about how something
that's cultural orcommunity-based impacts
(40:57):
business, there's a translationissue that can occur, right?
Why are we doing this?
That seems all touchy feely andnice and warm and sticky.
How does that impact my businessunit?
Why should I be involved inthat?
That's for the communityengagement people.
(41:18):
That's for the membershippeople.
It's not for the operationspeople or the finance people or
the marketing people per se.
So I think that that translationissue sometimes creates distance
in the ability for organizationsto be hyper productive and
profitable.
SPEAKER_01 (41:36):
So we, you, you, when you were at our convention
this year, um, we had one of theemerging leaders, our young
professionals spoke and, um, youspoke, uh, shortly after that to
help close out.
And that young professional madea comment about the audience.
(41:58):
Um, and that, well, I think 60,65, 63% of us were closer to
death than, um,
UNKNOWN (42:06):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (42:08):
Had less of our lives ahead of us.
(42:38):
of workers or newerprofessionals a difference in
how they're approaching andtheir expectations of of you
know their future of moving upin an organization or the what
they feel is expected of themand what they what they believe
(43:02):
should be expected of them itseems that times are listening
to what you're saying is thatsometimes there's a disconnect
between what they think shouldbe and maybe what their
supervisors or managers feel itshould be.
SPEAKER_00 (43:20):
So, yeah.
So let me just go half a stepbackwards and go forward.
I think that there are wobblesin communication that occur.
There are wobbles in connectionthat occur.
And the reasons for thosewobbles are one of those nine
pieces that I mentioned before.
One of them is age.
So in that particularcircumstance, you had a young
professional exceptionallyRight.
Articulate all of the wonderfulthings.
(43:40):
Right.
And she made a comment thatscratched a significant
percentage of the people in theroom.
And what happens in general isthere's a there's a nervous
laughter that occurs.
There is a well, it's true, butI'm still not comfortable with
being said out loud.
Laughter that occurs.
Right.
And I think that that's that'sall OK.
(44:02):
Right.
And we have to I'm going to bebrave enough, courageous enough
to get on the stage.
and say something that is a bitedgy, a bit funny.
Most comedy is a bit edgy,right?
The best comedians are reallyedgy.
So then I have to own the restof it too.
Let me put that example overhere for a second and come over
(44:23):
to a different one.
There's a time, and maybe thattime is still now, when people
would say, essentially,middle-aged white men have
ruined the world, right?
And there'd be nervous laughter,hee-hee, ha-ha, about that.
But what we're doing is we'rescratching the surface that
group, right?
And we may be telling the truthfrom our perspective, right?
(44:44):
We may be saying those are thefolks with the levers of power
and influence and they are theones that have been responsible
for the policies and practicesand procedures in some, right?
But the language that we use isa bit more comedic and it's
shorthand and it's TikTok andit's 120 characters and it
doesn't have context.
So I think in the absence ofproviding the context and all of
(45:05):
those other pieces, we also maynot understand and what we're
producing, which is distancebetween group A and group B.
And if we want to win, we haveto create connections between
group A and group B.
So you said what you said.
So I'm going to say what I said,because I want to figure out how
we can bring this thing backtogether.
So in the context of thisparticular young professional, I
(45:29):
said back what I said on thestage.
I think I did maybe two or threecomments about it, right?
As I'm going through and I wouldjust, hey, and you remember what
was said over here about 63% ofyou all being closer to death
you might want to pay attentionthose kinds of things right just
to create some warmth around itand then just as importantly i
have to find her after i talkand i have to say no we're good
(45:52):
right one way or another i sayyeah hey we're good i appreciate
you giving me some foundation totry to make some additional
points and then make myselfavailable to her to help uh her
along her path what business doi have using you and your
information to make mypresentation richer and not
offering myself to help make youbetter.
(46:14):
That seems quite selfish, right?
I'm going to use your stuff, butI'm also going to make myself
available so that you, I, we canbe better.
At the end of the day, for me,it's how do we come together?
How can we be more deeplyconnected?
Because deeply connected teamsand organizations win bigger and
they win more often.
UNKNOWN (46:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (46:37):
Yeah, and again, to your point, it reminded me of
that person sitting in theaudience was probably
uncomfortable and makes me thinkback to how when you and I
connected the first time and myinvolvement with AACUC was, you
know, it's all about what youlearned and what I learned from
(47:00):
my perspective was, especiallyin 2020, you got to learn pretty
quickly to get comfortable beinguncomfortable because that was
the reality of and that appliesto everything not just what was
happening in 2020 but I think inthat instance right and I think
(47:20):
as leaders you have to be youhave to be comfortable being
uncomfortable because you mightnot make popular decisions they
don't all work right yourrelationships don't always work
so you gotta find a way to getcomfortable with that
SPEAKER_00 (47:33):
I think that you're 100% right I also believe that
since the before 2020, too manyof us became comfortable making
people uncomfortable.
Without
SPEAKER_01 (47:44):
question.
SPEAKER_00 (47:45):
Right.
And a lot of people got kickedin the gut, punched in the
liver, kicked in the groin,slapped in the face.
And that was the norm.
And it seemed like, OK, that'sfine.
You know, we're going to have ayoung person's panel and
somewhere in that young person'spanel are going to be a few
sideways insults to olderpeople.
We're going to have a women'spanel and somewhere on that
(48:06):
women's panel, there's goinggoing to be some sideways
insults to menfolk, right?
We're going to have a panel ondiffering abilities.
And somewhere on that panel isgoing to be some version of
scratchy sideways insult to youable-bodied people, right?
So the same thing about parents,having kids or not, right?
Being married or not, we'vebecome affirmative in our
(48:30):
ability or desire to make themuncomfortable instead of feel
uncomfortable, right?
And for For those of us thathave touched therapy in one way
or another, we know that unhappypeople attract unhappy people,
right?
And if I haven't worked on mystuff, I might attract some
(48:51):
people who haven't worked ontheir stuff.
And it is more challenging tosit in your stuff and be
uncomfortable and then welcomethe person next to you who's a
little bit further along intheir journey to sit next to you
than to I'm going to make youuncomfortable.
So therefore, now we're bothuncomfortable together.
SPEAKER_01 (49:14):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (49:14):
Right.
Or so that I feel better.
You know, I make you feeluncomfortable, uncomfortable.
So therefore, I can feel betterand empowered.
Right.
And engaged.
And I'm doing the right thing.
And I'm speaking my truth.
And and and all these things canbe true at the same time.
But I believe that from abusiness perspective, from a
friendship perspective, from afamily perspective, that being
(49:38):
uncomfortable in the midst ofother people being uncomfortable
in equal measure is of highervalue than I'm going to make you
uncomfortable so you'reuncomfortable with me.
SPEAKER_01 (49:50):
Right.
Yeah.
Couldn't agree more.
Right.
And I think that's, but thatwhole uncomfortable part, a lot
of that, what was uncomfortablewas that there was nothing for
me to say.
Right.
It wasn't for me to say.
And that reality of recognizingthat situation and learning
(50:14):
because the lessons that werelearned oftentimes in those
situations are not right.
Looking at yourself from 20,000feet is never the same as
looking right in the, you know,look in the mirror.
It's right there.
But when you look around thecontext around you, it's a
little bit differentperspective.
SPEAKER_00 (50:32):
Excellent.
Excellent.
Well, I want to thank you forspending a bit of time with us
today to share a bunch ofdifferent stories, some family,
some personal, some business,some business and our business
and personal connect, you know,and all the extracurricular
activities, whether it's thechickens, the dogs or children
miracle network.
Thank you for sharing all ofthat.
I think that it makes us richer.
(50:53):
It makes us better.
And thank you for yourtransparency.
I appreciate that a great deal.
SPEAKER_01 (50:59):
Oh, thank you, James.
It's, it's wonderful.
Really appreciate the time andhonored to be invited.
SPEAKER_00 (51:05):
Excellent.
Excellent.
Thank you so much.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
What Are We Even Doing? with Kyle MacLachlan
Join award-winning actor and social media madman Kyle MacLachlan on “What Are We Even Doing,” where he sits down with Millennial and Gen Z actors, musicians, artists, and content creators to share stories about the entertainment industry past, present, and future. Kyle and his guests will talk shop, compare notes on life, and generally be weird together. In a good way. Their conversations will resonate with listeners of any age whose interests lie in television & film, music, art, or pop culture.