September 23, 2025 • 28 mins
Psychological safety isn’t about eliminating discomfort. It’s about creating the conditions where challenge and growth can thrive without fear of retaliation or exclusion. Dr. Ryan C. Warner joins James to explore how leaders at every level can balance safety with accountability, and why emotional intelligence is a critical skill for high-performing, inclusive teams. From feedback dynamics to work-life integration, this conversation offers practical insight for leaders navigating complexity, ambition, and change.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:04):
Dr.
Ryan C.
Warner is the president and CEOof RC Consulting.
He's many things, a man of manyfaces and skill sets, to include
that he's a husband, a father, abusiness owner, and military
veteran.
He's also a psychologist with aton of experience working with
large and medium-sizedorganizations.
Dr.
Warner and I spent some timetalking about the idea of
(00:25):
psychological safety,particularly in today's
disruptive environments.
I asked him about the idea ofpsychological safety in a time
when we know that leaders'experience and wisdom are grown
in tumultuous circumstances.
If that's the case, how then doleaders invite team members into
this difficulty, into thesedifficult times, while creating
(00:46):
psychological safety?
This is an interestingconversation that is necessary
for leaders who are trying topush their teams, but also
create a bubble of as muchpsychological safety as
possible.
I think you're really going toenjoy this one.
Alright, we are here with Dr.
Ryan Warner, known for a fewyears now, from a military vet
status to the uh additional, anadditional doctor of uh that
(01:06):
happens to be a man of colordoing great work and great
things in the great state ofTexas, whatever that means
today.
Um we're both in those placesand have a lot of shared
experiences.
And I wanted to really uh thankyou for being here to uh explain
some things to people from theperspective of an expert, but
overlaying that onto thecorporate side.
So I really appreciate you beinghere.
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
Yeah, thanks, Dr.
Paul, for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
Absolutely.
So let's start off with justgive us a brief bio.
What's the what's thetwo-minute, one-minute sketch on
who Dr.
Ryan C.
Warner is?
SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
Yeah, so I am a father, I'm a husband, I'm the
founder and chief executiveofficer of RC Warner Consulting,
and we're a boutique consultingfirm that ultimately looks at
the intersection betweenworkplace well-being and
workplace inclusion.
Uh, I've recognized throughoutmy time in the military, I was
an active duty militarypsychologist, and I saw a lot of
(02:02):
individuals who come to me intherapy, and they would mention
that they've experienced a lotof mental health challenges due
to their workplace situation.
So they didn't feel heard, theydidn't feel that they belonged,
they felt that they were engagedin toxic leadership, and in
turn, that impacted theiroverall health and well-being.
So instead of the treating thesymptom, I wanted to actually go
into the workplaces and get tothe root of the issue.
(02:24):
And in turn, I then transitionedmore into the consulting field.
And now, fast forward, um what,five years later, I'm starting
my business.
Uh, we've worked onciscontinents globally, trained
over 15,000 individuals, and weengaged in leadership
development, workplacewell-being, and workplace
inclusion so that organizationscan thrive.
SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
Nice, nice.
So just a broad connection.
Have you seen uh from yourexperience in the military to
your experience withcorporations, nonprofits, etc.,
any key themes that you mightdraw out?
SPEAKER_01 (02:59):
So the key themes, we know research shows,
according to the AmericanPsychological Association survey
that was done a couple yearsago, 70% of employees across all
industries are burnt outcurrently.
Okay, so that shows right there,not just in the military, but in
every single industry,individuals are not feeling
fulfilled, they're not feelingsatisfied, they're not feeling
(03:21):
engaged.
And guess what?
That impacts performance, thatimpacts elevation, and the
bottom line, right?
So that is the theme, you know,that I'm saying.
Number one, workplacewell-being, right?
Being overworked, not havingenough resources, right?
Um, and then number two, anotherkey piece is a lot of leaders
may not have that emotionalintelligence, you know, and
(03:42):
emotional awareness toultimately lead in the right
way.
Um, so in turn, that impactsteam dynamics and that impacts
over organizationaleffectiveness.
So those are the main thingsthat I've seen working with
Fortune 500 companies,government entities, and
high-performing organizationsacross the globe.
SPEAKER_00 (04:00):
Nice.
Now, so when we think about thecorporate context specifically
or the business context, thistheme or this term psychological
safety became a buzzword, sayseven, eight, maybe as long as
ten years ago, but it reallysort of started to take root in
a meaningful way and becamesomething that had to be talked
about at conferences, had to bepart of the workplace dynamic in
(04:23):
a variety of ways.
My question for you is what ispsychological safety?
How might you define that?
And how does it differ from aneducational or family context to
the corporate or businesscontext?
SPEAKER_01 (04:38):
So the way I look at psychological safety is the
ability and the willingness tobe able to speak up in a
workplace setting in which youfeel like there will be no
retaliation, in which you feelthat you can be your true open
and honest self.
Whether it be speaking up for anidea that you have, or maybe you
(05:01):
have feedback that you want toconvey to make the workplace
better, right?
It's the idea that, hey, I feelempowered that I'm able to
express this in a way in which Iwill not receive any negative
type of feedback or outcomes.
Now, when we look at in a maybefamily dynamic or educational
type of background, I look atmore as how can I go into that
(05:23):
setting and feel that I have theability to improve my learning,
uh, improve my knowledge about atopic, uh, and improve my
personal development.
When it comes to the workplace,I look at more as am I able to
speak up?
Um, and in turn, that helpsimprove organizational outcomes
and organizational performance.
SPEAKER_00 (05:43):
Understood, understood.
You know, in today's time ofsort of disruption and
litigiousness, so many peopleare uh scared, have fear around
raising their hand or correctingsomeone, being giving critical
feedback because they they mayget themselves in some version
of trouble.
You know, and there seems to bemore resistance to the kind of
discomfort or perhaps pain thata resistance is necessary to
(06:08):
grow.
So I wonder how you might framethe response to this.
Um, is there a are we leavingtoo many emerging professionals
without the opportunity tostruggle?
Because leaders are trying tocreate psychological safety,
right?
Are we are we eliminating theroughness that's necessary for
them to grow?
SPEAKER_01 (06:29):
So that's a great question.
Um so we for us to grow, we haveto take risks and we have to sit
with discomfort.
And oftentimes when people hearthe term psychological safety,
they mean they think that, well,I have to create an environment
in which people don't feeluncomfortable, right?
And there's some cognitivedissonance there, right?
(06:51):
So to feel safe, you need tohave a healthy level of
discomfort, but not to you don'twant to feel unsafe.
Okay, those are two differenttypes of um ideas that we have
to keep in mind, right?
How can I, if I have a concern,how can I express that feedback,
in which I know it feelsuncomfortable interpersonally,
but I know my views are gonna behurt and my ideas, right, are
(07:14):
maybe going to be lived up.
Versus if I feel unsafe, then inturn I'm going to engage in
avoidance, right?
Because if I feel unsafe, thenguess what?
I don't want to get fired,right?
I don't want to have somebodymark me down on a performance
report, right?
That's a feeling of unsafe,right?
(07:35):
So understanding the differencethere.
So I encourage leaders when I'mengaging in 360-degree feedbacks
or doing executive coaching thatunderstand that difference.
Being unsafe, creating unsafetyin the workplace versus creating
discomfort.
A healthy amount of discomfortis going to lead to growth.
But guess what?
As human beings, we don't likediscomfort.
(07:57):
Everything that we do and how wenavigate the world ultimately is
to avoid any discomfort and tocreate homeostasis within
ourselves and within ourenvironment.
So sometimes we have to what wecall a top-down process and push
that down and recognize that andunderstand that this discomfort
in the short term is actuallygoing to lead to long-term
(08:18):
sustainable growth.
But we have to ask ourselves, isit safe, right?
Is it helping improve teamdynamics and helping boost
outcomes?
And if it hits all three ofthose, right, then we need to
approach that discomfort.
SPEAKER_00 (08:32):
So if I'm an emerging leader, um I've I've
been uh tapped as somebody whohas some potential, right?
And I'm giving in stretchassignments, and um, I'm
starting to get that kind ofcritical feedback that is kind
of uncomfortable.
How do I know the difference asa person who hasn't yet
experienced this?
What are some of the things Ishould be considering?
(08:53):
Like this has gone beyonddiscomfort to where I should be
uh I should be feeling unsafe.
This feeling I have is one oflack of safety, versus it's
simply uh the cognitivedissonance that you referenced
earlier.
SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
Well, I think about we all have these healthy, what
we call healthy stretch zones.
Okay, so there's a zone, right?
And we may weave back and forth.
But the moment we cross thatboundary in which, you know, now
there may be some possible harm,right, then we've gone too far.
Right?
So understanding that feedback,number one, is that feedback
(09:30):
evidence-based, right?
Is it based on data?
Is it based on fact, right?
Or is it based on how I feelabout that person?
Is it based on bias, right?
Um, so right there, that showsare we in a healthy zone or are
we getting more in the unhealthyzone?
Oftentimes feedback is based onsome uh subjective type of
reports, right?
We know that, for instance,women receive more feedback
(09:51):
based on personalitycharacteristics, and men get
more feedback traditionallybased on outcomes and
performance and actions andbehaviors.
So right then and there, thatcan be unsafe, right?
Uh, the way uh may providefeedback to a woman if it's done
in a very biased way.
SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
Is that unsafe or is it just unbalanced?
Because I, as a young man orgrowing man, or an executive
man, I may need feedback on mypersonal characteristics, right?
How I talk to people, my tone,etc.
And my female colleague may needthese other pieces around uh
these other characteristics thatyou mentioned.
So is it unsafe or unbalanced,or am I receiving what you're
(10:30):
saying incorrectly?
SPEAKER_01 (10:32):
Well, right, that that feeling unbalanced may lead
to uh uh safety, um, not havingthat safety, right?
Because if it's only based onpersonality characteristics, if
it's only based on that bias,right, then in turn, guess what?
That woman leader is not gonnafeel that they can speak up,
it's going to feel that theyhave to, you know, uh, you know,
(10:54):
shift um just their personalitytraits.
They may not feel like theybelong in the workplace, and
that's gonna impact how theyinteract with others, that's
gonna impact their performance,engagement, etc.
And now they feel unsafe withinthe workplace.
Okay, so it has to be more ofthat balance because that
unbalanced feedback could thenlead to that um those safety
challenges.
SPEAKER_00 (11:13):
Yeah, and that's that's really good, you know.
And so as you're as we separateout sort of different groupings,
right?
You talked a little bit about uhuh male professionals, female
professionals, senior emergingleaders.
What might be your advice tosenior leaders in the position
of providing advice, or thoughthat senior leader is trying to
elevate to the C-suite.
(11:33):
They're trying to elevate to theboard, and they know they need
the appropriate struggle, theyneed the appropriate discomfort,
but they're not sure how to getinvolved and how to jump off of
that cliff.
SPEAKER_01 (11:48):
Well, first we have to prove our awareness, right?
Um, we have to prove ouremotional intelligence.
We know that the the bestleaders, the most impactful
leaders, are the ones that havethis emotional awareness,
emotional intelligence withinthemselves.
And we have to do that in a veryintentional way, right?
Um sometimes we'd be surprisedhow many people continue to get
(12:08):
to the top and they have zeroself-awareness and emotional
intelligence, and they're notable to regulate themselves or
even be mindful of the biasesthat they have and how that
impacts their interactions withothers, right?
So that's the first step.
Like, how are you intentionallyenhancing your emotional
awareness so in turn you'regiving that more balanced
feedback, right?
And being able to best supportyour team.
SPEAKER_00 (12:30):
How can I do that?
What might be some ways that Icould increase my awareness and
emotional intelligence?
What might be some to-dos thatyou would leave leave the senior
executives with?
SPEAKER_01 (12:43):
Well, there's formalized methods, right?
So in the work that I do, weprovide 360 assessments in which
they're able to take anemotional type of intelligence
360, and then they're able toget feedback from their peers,
uh, subordinates, right?
Um, and then now, outside oflooking at their lens, they're
able to see the perspective ofothers, right?
(13:04):
And they're able to get data,subjective and objective data of
where they need to improve.
You know, that's a formalizedmethod.
Um, but the second method wouldbe um, how can you recognize,
you know, the what's thefunctional impact that you may
see when it comes to you knowthese blind spots that you may
not be aware of, right?
(13:25):
So for instance, maybe you go tothe workplace and you recognize,
yeah, a lot of my subordinates,they don't come to me when you
know difficulty, difficult timesin their life, you know, occur,
right?
So I always maybe hear from oneof my peers that they lost a
family member or you knowthey're struggling financially.
Why do they not come to me?
Right?
So that's right there.
You see that functional impact,right?
(13:45):
And in turn, you can then say,okay, how can I get more data
about what am I doingbehaviorally in which people
don't feel open to come to me,right?
Um, so try to identify wherethose pockets in which you want
to improve, and then be able toget accountability partners, be
able to get individuals that cangive you a different perspective
to widen, you know, um, youknow, your your perspective on
(14:09):
that issue.
SPEAKER_00 (14:10):
So that's a really good point, uh, Dr.
Warner.
I I like the idea of takingstock in the folk around you and
your conversations with them andrecognize that there's some
critical things that arehappening in their lives that
you're hearing about after thefact.
You know, I I had a very goodfriend or have a very good
friend, and then this was uhmight have been 15, 20 years
(14:31):
ago.
He was going through a tough,uh, a tough divorce, and I was
coming out of a tough uhrelationship issue, and neither
one of us were talking to eachother about it.
We were both struggling in ourown silos, and although we were
seeing each other regularly,like once a month, we'd we'd get
together and hang out, the depthof the challenge uh that each of
us were navigating, we didn'tshare.
(14:51):
And we were absent the supportof one another.
And we had to call each other onthe carpet and say, you know, we
we can't have that, right?
We we know each other wellenough, we love each other
enough, we need each otherenough.
So we have to commit that ifyou're in a bit of turmoil, uh
uh open open up the uhopportunity for me to help, you
know, knock on the door.
(15:11):
But and also I had to say tothem, um, I'm going to come to
you and say, what's going on?
Right?
I'm I'm I I gotta build thebridge too.
It was uh it was veryenlightening and humbling
conversation with somebody thatI'd known for at that time a
decade, decade or more.
And I thought we were quoteunquote better than that, but it
just it just wasn't the case.
SPEAKER_01 (15:31):
And so right there, you were able to identify that
because you took a pause, right?
And you asked yourself thatquestion.
Um, you know, yeah, why why arewe, you know, not sharing that
part of ourselves with eachother?
So right there, that's anotherkey tenet of how we can boost
our emotional intelligence totake that pause to ask ourselves
those reflective questions.
(15:51):
So then we can work to try tofind, you know, what is the root
of that issue?
SPEAKER_00 (15:55):
I like that.
Take the pause so that you canask the reflective questions uh
about what you have uhidentified in your uh as you
evaluate your relationships withkey VIPs and others in your
lives.
So, how might, if at all, youradvice differ to emerging
executives who desireadvancement, right?
And they're trying to figure outhow to engage in this sort of
(16:18):
corporate business workspace andget the right kind of
uncomfortables, we call it aJPE, so that they can move
forward and be successful.
SPEAKER_01 (16:27):
Well, for emerging leaders, when I work with these
individuals, I often ask them,you know, what motivates you to
be a leader, right?
And they often say, Well, I hadbad leadership in the past and I
don't want to be like them.
You know, uh so that is gooddata about you see what doesn't
work, right?
And then you're motivated to bebetter.
Um, so it's interesting, right?
(16:49):
Because with emergent leaders,you know, they're they're now
getting to the point in whichthey have more autonomy, maybe
they have more responsibility,right?
So I would, again, give them thesimilar advice.
How do you take that pause,right, and recognize um what are
some of your gaps that you'reseeing?
And then also, what are youdoing that is maybe more
(17:12):
adaptive, maybe compared to thatother leader that you look up
to?
And what are you doing thatmaybe aligns with that poor
leadership that you did notappreciate?
Right?
Because in person, sometimes wetry to be the opposite of our
role models that weren't reallyhelpful in our life, but then we
engage in cognitive dissonanceand we in turn may still
(17:32):
continue to do what they do,right?
So, yeah, I would I would justlook at, yeah, who are you are
as a leader, and then what areyou doing that you're proud of?
What are you doing that in turnis is leadership that you would
not appreciate?
You know, like I talked to aleader recently, and they were
like, Yeah, I didn't appreciatehow my my past supervisor, they
always told me to take a break,but they never took a break,
(17:54):
right?
And in turn, I didn't feel safeand open to take leave and take
PTO.
But then I would ask them, okay,as a leader now, do you do that?
And they say, no, I just preachit as well, but I don't even
take my own advice.
So right there, there's somecognitive dissonance.
Well, you just said you didn'tappreciate that, but you're
engaging in the same behavior,right?
So that pause and thatreflection is gonna boost their
(18:14):
emotional intelligence, theirawareness, and help them
continue to grow in theirleadership uh development.
SPEAKER_00 (18:19):
Let me give you a scenario and get your feedback
on it.
So I am uh when I'm engagingwith people, whether it's
coaching or strategicdevelopment or strategic
planning, what have you, one ofthe things that uh seems to be
occurring on a regular basis nowis this idea that work-life
balance, another uh phrase thatdidn't exist two, three decades
(18:40):
ago that has taken on a life ofits own, um, is not 50-50.
It can be 90-10, it can be10-90.
And as you move through theranks of an organization and
increase your experience, and ifyou want to be a climber and you
want to be in the C-suite, it'snot anywhere close to 50-50,
right?
These kinds of individuals seemto have in their bones a
(19:03):
restlessness, a fire, a drivethat puts them in that 70-30,
80-20, 90-10, sometimes 95-5space as the norm, right?
And and and and some of themhave found a partner, a life
partner, that understands thatand works with them in that,
right?
And others they didn't, and sooftentimes the divorce rates are
(19:26):
higher for those groups, groupsof folks.
Their relationships with theirchildren can be more strained,
their relationships with theirfriends can be more strained.
My point being that this uhwork-life balance is
differentiated across levels ofan organization, and as a
result, the the understanding ofsomething like psychological
safety is different at thesedifferent levels.
(19:47):
What is your thinking aroundthat?
SPEAKER_01 (19:50):
Hmm.
So I I've never personally usedthe term work-life balance, you
know, for the reason that youprovided.
I say instead work-lifeintegration or work-life
harmony, right?
Because you're not going to havethat 50-50.
SPEAKER_00 (20:03):
Uh, you think that what you're saying is that
balance implies 50-50 in today'ssort of language.
And so you've selected thisdifferent language to provide a
different visual, a differentfeel of how you think it should
really, it should really be.
Is that what am I hearing youright?
SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
Correct.
Yeah, because I really feel likea healthy organization is not,
oh, we only work two days aweek, right?
And the other two days we gettime off, right?
Instead, it's recognizing whenare your employees getting to
that point of going over thathilltop in which they're
beginning to be burned out,right?
When do they need to take thattime to you know uh fuel up to
(20:41):
take time for themselves, right?
And in turn, then they can getback to work and be engaged and
boost performance.
So instead of counting days,right, or how many hours you're
taking off, because you can takethat time off and that can be
extremely stressful.
Then you go back to work, you'reeven more stressed out, right?
Instead, it's more about what'sthe quality of the time that
you're taking for yourself.
(21:03):
And then how do we also bemindful, recognizing when we
start to get over that hill andget to that burnout, right?
And before we get there, we haveto be proactive and we have to
have that emotional intelligenceto say, hey, I don't need the
whole day off right now, but Ineed to uh, you know, just log
off a little early, right?
(21:24):
Or I need to, you know, be ableto not just take the holiday
off, but maybe, you know, havesome leaves saved up and you
know, I'm gonna be strategicabout that, right?
That's why, you know, actuallyunlimited PTO actually shows to
be more effective than boostingengagement, you know, than
having that standardized PTO,right?
Because companies have foundthat they actually save money by
giving unlimited PTO.
(21:44):
Because guess and if you areable to establish a culture in
which taking time off iscelebrated, then actually your
employees will be more dedicatedto the organization.
They will work harder, they'llfeel the more trusted, right?
Because they take their time offwhen they need it.
Um in terms they're gonnaactually be more engaged.
And there's other study thatshows that individuals who
(22:06):
actually have unlimited PTO takea little bit less time off than
standard PTO.
And so it's interesting, right,uh, that we see and boost
engagement with that.
So that's actually a policy mycompany has put in place, uh,
that limited PTO method.
Um, so we can give autonomy,build that psychological safety,
build that trust, right?
And now individuals um, youknow, with boundaries,
(22:28):
obviously, uh, they're able toengage in that work-life
integration.
SPEAKER_00 (22:31):
Agreed.
And I think, you know, whatcomes with that is obviously the
assumption that the keyperformance indicators are in
place and that you know whatyour job uh left and right
boundaries are and all theseother things.
But I like this idea ofunlimited PTO, it's something
that we have as well.
Is it something that you arerecommending across
organizational sizes or thatyou're at least asking people to
(22:53):
consider?
That this unlimited PTO piecemay indeed boost engagements.
It's something you shouldinvestigate.
Is that something you're doingacross sizes of organizations as
well?
SPEAKER_01 (23:02):
That's a good question.
Um, I think it really depends onorganizational culture, right?
So, for instance, the military,right, that may not work, right?
So, but other organizations itmay.
So, I think you have to take inthe cultural aspect of the
organization, what's alreadybeen instilled.
Because in turn, if you do itwrong, it can create that that
(23:23):
feeling of unsafety, yes, right,um, that we mentioned, right?
Oh, you're telling me to taketime off, but I know if I do
take this time off, then it'sgonna come with some
consequences, right?
So if psychological safety isnot in place, then it actually
can worsen the situation.
SPEAKER_00 (23:36):
Excellent, excellent.
So I like to leave time as weget to the wrap, we get to the
end and we wrap things up herefor folks to ask it a question
that may be on their mind thatis uh sort of bubbled up as
we've been talking, or somethingthey've had in their back pocket
they want to put in front of meto respond to in some kind of
way.
So, did you happen to havesomething that you wanted to
push out?
SPEAKER_01 (23:55):
Yeah, I'm curious.
We talked a lot about how doleaders intentionally boost
their emotional intelligence.
I'm curious, you as a leader,right, like what do you do in an
intentional way, right?
Because we know that leaderswith higher emotional
intelligence are able to, youknow, make that change, the
meaningful change, they're ableto boost team dynamics and
performance, right?
And just perform optimally,right, um, in their roles.
(24:18):
So I'm curious what you dointentionally to enhance your
emotional awareness andemotional intelligence.
SPEAKER_00 (24:22):
Yeah, well, here's a few things it uh that all have a
theme of being purposeful, beingintentional.
Um, you talked about um takingtime off intentionally.
I will intentionally take a20-minute, 30-minute vacation.
I'm not thinking about any ofthis stuff.
I'm going for a walk, I'm gonnawork, I've been working on my
learning Spanish, I put myheadphones on, go for a walk, or
(24:44):
I'm gonna lay down and take a10-minute nap, but it's
completely disconnected and it'svery purposeful.
Similarly, I will ask questionsof people that I know will tell
me their version of the truthabout how I'm doing, what I'm
missing.
Uh, and if are there unmet needsthat they have that I haven't
(25:04):
met that I committed to somekind of way?
Right?
Are we miscommunicating aboutkey issues and key uh challenges
that we both agreed to facetogether?
Right?
Am I have I been clear?
So that the check-ins areimportant, but it's also an
opportunity for me to sharesomething like this.
I expect you to help me bebetter.
(25:25):
Right?
And part of the commitment I'mmaking to you is that I am going
to listen very hard and I'mgonna ask a bunch of questions
that make sure that I'munderstanding what it is that
you're trying to tell me.
And it won't, it's not a backand forth, uh, you gave me some
feedback, I'm gonna give yousome.
No, I'm asking for you to do methe favor of helping me be
(25:47):
better.
And I'm expecting you to give methe best that you can, give it,
do the best that you can.
So for me, it's about you knowfinding that uh advisory board,
sort of personal andprofessional advisory board, and
then opening up to them andasking them for their assistance
and in the context of theirresponses, letting them know
that I expect them to give it tome and to do it in the best way
(26:08):
they can.
And sometimes the best way theycan is not loving, it's not
perhaps friendly, uh, becausethey've only got 10 minutes to
shove in 30 minutes worth of uhworth of feedback.
So um I try to make those thingshappen very uh aggressively, and
then when they say to me, readthis, watch this, uh follow up
with me about it, then I I tryto follow up on those and
(26:31):
follow, follow up and followthrough on those things as well.
SPEAKER_01 (26:34):
Yeah, it's great.
I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_00 (26:36):
Yeah, it's been it's been helpful for me to to do
that.
It helps to accelerate me, butit also helps to pause me.
You know, sometimes in in theseroles that we have, um, as you
may have experienced, you're onthe stage a lot, you're in front
a lot, and it it takes an activedose of humility, like a shot of
humility that you may have togive to yourself, to your point
(26:59):
uh before, to pause so that youcan get yeah, yes.
So thank you so much for all ofyour outstanding feelings.
It's a very rich, multi-layeredconversation.
I really appreciate you takingsome time to do that.
I'm certain the listeners aregonna get a great deal out of
it, and it's wonderful clips forpeople to engage in over time.
So I really appreciate it.
Any final words to share?
SPEAKER_01 (27:21):
Yeah, no, I'll just encourage everyone to recognize,
you know, this is a journey thatwe're all on, right?
I mean, um, you know, we can,you know, implement some of
these strategies that we learnedtoday, but just recognize we
have to continue to pushforward, and the only way we're
able to get forward is to sitwith that discomfort, approach
that discomfort in a safe way.
(27:41):
And in turn, that's gonna leadto development and growth.
SPEAKER_00 (27:45):
Last piece, how can people find you?
What's the best way for folks tofind you if they need to follow
up with you about some work theywant to get done or they want to
follow up with you to learn moreabout the work that you're
doing?
SPEAKER_01 (27:56):
Yeah, so you can reach out at our website at
www.rc warnerconsulting.com.
You can also find me onLinkedIn, Ryan C.
Warner PhD.
Feel free to send a directmessage saying that you listen
to me on this podcast.
I'd be happy to connect.
You can also Google my name, Dr.
Ryan C.
Warner, my information will comeup.
SPEAKER_00 (28:16):
Thank you so much, sir.
Really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (28:19):
Thanks for having me.
It's been great.
Dr.
Ryan C.
Warner is the president and CEOof RC Consulting.
He's many things, a man of manyfaces and skill sets, to include
that he's a husband, a father, abusiness owner, and military
veteran.
He's also a psychologist with aton of experience working with
large and medium-sizedorganizations.
Dr.
Warner and I spent some timetalking about the idea of
(00:25):
psychological safety,particularly in today's
disruptive environments.
I asked him about the idea ofpsychological safety in a time
when we know that leaders'experience and wisdom are grown
in tumultuous circumstances.
If that's the case, how then doleaders invite team members into
this difficulty, into thesedifficult times, while creating
(00:46):
psychological safety?
This is an interestingconversation that is necessary
for leaders who are trying topush their teams, but also
create a bubble of as muchpsychological safety as
possible.
I think you're really going toenjoy this one.
Alright, we are here with Dr.
Ryan Warner, known for a fewyears now, from a military vet
status to the uh additional, anadditional doctor of uh that
(01:06):
happens to be a man of colordoing great work and great
things in the great state ofTexas, whatever that means
today.
Um we're both in those placesand have a lot of shared
experiences.
And I wanted to really uh thankyou for being here to uh explain
some things to people from theperspective of an expert, but
overlaying that onto thecorporate side.
So I really appreciate you beinghere.
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
Yeah, thanks, Dr.
Paul, for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
Absolutely.
So let's start off with justgive us a brief bio.
What's the what's thetwo-minute, one-minute sketch on
who Dr.
Ryan C.
Warner is?
SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
Yeah, so I am a father, I'm a husband, I'm the
founder and chief executiveofficer of RC Warner Consulting,
and we're a boutique consultingfirm that ultimately looks at
the intersection betweenworkplace well-being and
workplace inclusion.
Uh, I've recognized throughoutmy time in the military, I was
an active duty militarypsychologist, and I saw a lot of
(02:02):
individuals who come to me intherapy, and they would mention
that they've experienced a lotof mental health challenges due
to their workplace situation.
So they didn't feel heard, theydidn't feel that they belonged,
they felt that they were engagedin toxic leadership, and in
turn, that impacted theiroverall health and well-being.
So instead of the treating thesymptom, I wanted to actually go
into the workplaces and get tothe root of the issue.
(02:24):
And in turn, I then transitionedmore into the consulting field.
And now, fast forward, um what,five years later, I'm starting
my business.
Uh, we've worked onciscontinents globally, trained
over 15,000 individuals, and weengaged in leadership
development, workplacewell-being, and workplace
inclusion so that organizationscan thrive.
SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
Nice, nice.
So just a broad connection.
Have you seen uh from yourexperience in the military to
your experience withcorporations, nonprofits, etc.,
any key themes that you mightdraw out?
SPEAKER_01 (02:59):
So the key themes, we know research shows,
according to the AmericanPsychological Association survey
that was done a couple yearsago, 70% of employees across all
industries are burnt outcurrently.
Okay, so that shows right there,not just in the military, but in
every single industry,individuals are not feeling
fulfilled, they're not feelingsatisfied, they're not feeling
(03:21):
engaged.
And guess what?
That impacts performance, thatimpacts elevation, and the
bottom line, right?
So that is the theme, you know,that I'm saying.
Number one, workplacewell-being, right?
Being overworked, not havingenough resources, right?
Um, and then number two, anotherkey piece is a lot of leaders
may not have that emotionalintelligence, you know, and
(03:42):
emotional awareness toultimately lead in the right
way.
Um, so in turn, that impactsteam dynamics and that impacts
over organizationaleffectiveness.
So those are the main thingsthat I've seen working with
Fortune 500 companies,government entities, and
high-performing organizationsacross the globe.
SPEAKER_00 (04:00):
Nice.
Now, so when we think about thecorporate context specifically
or the business context, thistheme or this term psychological
safety became a buzzword, sayseven, eight, maybe as long as
ten years ago, but it reallysort of started to take root in
a meaningful way and becamesomething that had to be talked
about at conferences, had to bepart of the workplace dynamic in
(04:23):
a variety of ways.
My question for you is what ispsychological safety?
How might you define that?
And how does it differ from aneducational or family context to
the corporate or businesscontext?
SPEAKER_01 (04:38):
So the way I look at psychological safety is the
ability and the willingness tobe able to speak up in a
workplace setting in which youfeel like there will be no
retaliation, in which you feelthat you can be your true open
and honest self.
Whether it be speaking up for anidea that you have, or maybe you
(05:01):
have feedback that you want toconvey to make the workplace
better, right?
It's the idea that, hey, I feelempowered that I'm able to
express this in a way in which Iwill not receive any negative
type of feedback or outcomes.
Now, when we look at in a maybefamily dynamic or educational
type of background, I look atmore as how can I go into that
(05:23):
setting and feel that I have theability to improve my learning,
uh, improve my knowledge about atopic, uh, and improve my
personal development.
When it comes to the workplace,I look at more as am I able to
speak up?
Um, and in turn, that helpsimprove organizational outcomes
and organizational performance.
SPEAKER_00 (05:43):
Understood, understood.
You know, in today's time ofsort of disruption and
litigiousness, so many peopleare uh scared, have fear around
raising their hand or correctingsomeone, being giving critical
feedback because they they mayget themselves in some version
of trouble.
You know, and there seems to bemore resistance to the kind of
discomfort or perhaps pain thata resistance is necessary to
(06:08):
grow.
So I wonder how you might framethe response to this.
Um, is there a are we leavingtoo many emerging professionals
without the opportunity tostruggle?
Because leaders are trying tocreate psychological safety,
right?
Are we are we eliminating theroughness that's necessary for
them to grow?
SPEAKER_01 (06:29):
So that's a great question.
Um so we for us to grow, we haveto take risks and we have to sit
with discomfort.
And oftentimes when people hearthe term psychological safety,
they mean they think that, well,I have to create an environment
in which people don't feeluncomfortable, right?
And there's some cognitivedissonance there, right?
(06:51):
So to feel safe, you need tohave a healthy level of
discomfort, but not to you don'twant to feel unsafe.
Okay, those are two differenttypes of um ideas that we have
to keep in mind, right?
How can I, if I have a concern,how can I express that feedback,
in which I know it feelsuncomfortable interpersonally,
but I know my views are gonna behurt and my ideas, right, are
(07:14):
maybe going to be lived up.
Versus if I feel unsafe, then inturn I'm going to engage in
avoidance, right?
Because if I feel unsafe, thenguess what?
I don't want to get fired,right?
I don't want to have somebodymark me down on a performance
report, right?
That's a feeling of unsafe,right?
(07:35):
So understanding the differencethere.
So I encourage leaders when I'mengaging in 360-degree feedbacks
or doing executive coaching thatunderstand that difference.
Being unsafe, creating unsafetyin the workplace versus creating
discomfort.
A healthy amount of discomfortis going to lead to growth.
But guess what?
As human beings, we don't likediscomfort.
(07:57):
Everything that we do and how wenavigate the world ultimately is
to avoid any discomfort and tocreate homeostasis within
ourselves and within ourenvironment.
So sometimes we have to what wecall a top-down process and push
that down and recognize that andunderstand that this discomfort
in the short term is actuallygoing to lead to long-term
(08:18):
sustainable growth.
But we have to ask ourselves, isit safe, right?
Is it helping improve teamdynamics and helping boost
outcomes?
And if it hits all three ofthose, right, then we need to
approach that discomfort.
SPEAKER_00 (08:32):
So if I'm an emerging leader, um I've I've
been uh tapped as somebody whohas some potential, right?
And I'm giving in stretchassignments, and um, I'm
starting to get that kind ofcritical feedback that is kind
of uncomfortable.
How do I know the difference asa person who hasn't yet
experienced this?
What are some of the things Ishould be considering?
(08:53):
Like this has gone beyonddiscomfort to where I should be
uh I should be feeling unsafe.
This feeling I have is one oflack of safety, versus it's
simply uh the cognitivedissonance that you referenced
earlier.
SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
Well, I think about we all have these healthy, what
we call healthy stretch zones.
Okay, so there's a zone, right?
And we may weave back and forth.
But the moment we cross thatboundary in which, you know, now
there may be some possible harm,right, then we've gone too far.
Right?
So understanding that feedback,number one, is that feedback
(09:30):
evidence-based, right?
Is it based on data?
Is it based on fact, right?
Or is it based on how I feelabout that person?
Is it based on bias, right?
Um, so right there, that showsare we in a healthy zone or are
we getting more in the unhealthyzone?
Oftentimes feedback is based onsome uh subjective type of
reports, right?
We know that, for instance,women receive more feedback
(09:51):
based on personalitycharacteristics, and men get
more feedback traditionallybased on outcomes and
performance and actions andbehaviors.
So right then and there, thatcan be unsafe, right?
Uh, the way uh may providefeedback to a woman if it's done
in a very biased way.
SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
Is that unsafe or is it just unbalanced?
Because I, as a young man orgrowing man, or an executive
man, I may need feedback on mypersonal characteristics, right?
How I talk to people, my tone,etc.
And my female colleague may needthese other pieces around uh
these other characteristics thatyou mentioned.
So is it unsafe or unbalanced,or am I receiving what you're
(10:30):
saying incorrectly?
SPEAKER_01 (10:32):
Well, right, that that feeling unbalanced may lead
to uh uh safety, um, not havingthat safety, right?
Because if it's only based onpersonality characteristics, if
it's only based on that bias,right, then in turn, guess what?
That woman leader is not gonnafeel that they can speak up,
it's going to feel that theyhave to, you know, uh, you know,
(10:54):
shift um just their personalitytraits.
They may not feel like theybelong in the workplace, and
that's gonna impact how theyinteract with others, that's
gonna impact their performance,engagement, etc.
And now they feel unsafe withinthe workplace.
Okay, so it has to be more ofthat balance because that
unbalanced feedback could thenlead to that um those safety
challenges.
SPEAKER_00 (11:13):
Yeah, and that's that's really good, you know.
And so as you're as we separateout sort of different groupings,
right?
You talked a little bit about uhuh male professionals, female
professionals, senior emergingleaders.
What might be your advice tosenior leaders in the position
of providing advice, or thoughthat senior leader is trying to
elevate to the C-suite.
(11:33):
They're trying to elevate to theboard, and they know they need
the appropriate struggle, theyneed the appropriate discomfort,
but they're not sure how to getinvolved and how to jump off of
that cliff.
SPEAKER_01 (11:48):
Well, first we have to prove our awareness, right?
Um, we have to prove ouremotional intelligence.
We know that the the bestleaders, the most impactful
leaders, are the ones that havethis emotional awareness,
emotional intelligence withinthemselves.
And we have to do that in a veryintentional way, right?
Um sometimes we'd be surprisedhow many people continue to get
(12:08):
to the top and they have zeroself-awareness and emotional
intelligence, and they're notable to regulate themselves or
even be mindful of the biasesthat they have and how that
impacts their interactions withothers, right?
So that's the first step.
Like, how are you intentionallyenhancing your emotional
awareness so in turn you'regiving that more balanced
feedback, right?
And being able to best supportyour team.
SPEAKER_00 (12:30):
How can I do that?
What might be some ways that Icould increase my awareness and
emotional intelligence?
What might be some to-dos thatyou would leave leave the senior
executives with?
SPEAKER_01 (12:43):
Well, there's formalized methods, right?
So in the work that I do, weprovide 360 assessments in which
they're able to take anemotional type of intelligence
360, and then they're able toget feedback from their peers,
uh, subordinates, right?
Um, and then now, outside oflooking at their lens, they're
able to see the perspective ofothers, right?
(13:04):
And they're able to get data,subjective and objective data of
where they need to improve.
You know, that's a formalizedmethod.
Um, but the second method wouldbe um, how can you recognize,
you know, the what's thefunctional impact that you may
see when it comes to you knowthese blind spots that you may
not be aware of, right?
(13:25):
So for instance, maybe you go tothe workplace and you recognize,
yeah, a lot of my subordinates,they don't come to me when you
know difficulty, difficult timesin their life, you know, occur,
right?
So I always maybe hear from oneof my peers that they lost a
family member or you knowthey're struggling financially.
Why do they not come to me?
Right?
So that's right there.
You see that functional impact,right?
(13:45):
And in turn, you can then say,okay, how can I get more data
about what am I doingbehaviorally in which people
don't feel open to come to me,right?
Um, so try to identify wherethose pockets in which you want
to improve, and then be able toget accountability partners, be
able to get individuals that cangive you a different perspective
to widen, you know, um, youknow, your your perspective on
(14:09):
that issue.
SPEAKER_00 (14:10):
So that's a really good point, uh, Dr.
Warner.
I I like the idea of takingstock in the folk around you and
your conversations with them andrecognize that there's some
critical things that arehappening in their lives that
you're hearing about after thefact.
You know, I I had a very goodfriend or have a very good
friend, and then this was uhmight have been 15, 20 years
(14:31):
ago.
He was going through a tough,uh, a tough divorce, and I was
coming out of a tough uhrelationship issue, and neither
one of us were talking to eachother about it.
We were both struggling in ourown silos, and although we were
seeing each other regularly,like once a month, we'd we'd get
together and hang out, the depthof the challenge uh that each of
us were navigating, we didn'tshare.
(14:51):
And we were absent the supportof one another.
And we had to call each other onthe carpet and say, you know, we
we can't have that, right?
We we know each other wellenough, we love each other
enough, we need each otherenough.
So we have to commit that ifyou're in a bit of turmoil, uh
uh open open up the uhopportunity for me to help, you
know, knock on the door.
(15:11):
But and also I had to say tothem, um, I'm going to come to
you and say, what's going on?
Right?
I'm I'm I I gotta build thebridge too.
It was uh it was veryenlightening and humbling
conversation with somebody thatI'd known for at that time a
decade, decade or more.
And I thought we were quoteunquote better than that, but it
just it just wasn't the case.
SPEAKER_01 (15:31):
And so right there, you were able to identify that
because you took a pause, right?
And you asked yourself thatquestion.
Um, you know, yeah, why why arewe, you know, not sharing that
part of ourselves with eachother?
So right there, that's anotherkey tenet of how we can boost
our emotional intelligence totake that pause to ask ourselves
those reflective questions.
(15:51):
So then we can work to try tofind, you know, what is the root
of that issue?
SPEAKER_00 (15:55):
I like that.
Take the pause so that you canask the reflective questions uh
about what you have uhidentified in your uh as you
evaluate your relationships withkey VIPs and others in your
lives.
So, how might, if at all, youradvice differ to emerging
executives who desireadvancement, right?
And they're trying to figure outhow to engage in this sort of
(16:18):
corporate business workspace andget the right kind of
uncomfortables, we call it aJPE, so that they can move
forward and be successful.
SPEAKER_01 (16:27):
Well, for emerging leaders, when I work with these
individuals, I often ask them,you know, what motivates you to
be a leader, right?
And they often say, Well, I hadbad leadership in the past and I
don't want to be like them.
You know, uh so that is gooddata about you see what doesn't
work, right?
And then you're motivated to bebetter.
Um, so it's interesting, right?
(16:49):
Because with emergent leaders,you know, they're they're now
getting to the point in whichthey have more autonomy, maybe
they have more responsibility,right?
So I would, again, give them thesimilar advice.
How do you take that pause,right, and recognize um what are
some of your gaps that you'reseeing?
And then also, what are youdoing that is maybe more
(17:12):
adaptive, maybe compared to thatother leader that you look up
to?
And what are you doing thatmaybe aligns with that poor
leadership that you did notappreciate?
Right?
Because in person, sometimes wetry to be the opposite of our
role models that weren't reallyhelpful in our life, but then we
engage in cognitive dissonanceand we in turn may still
(17:32):
continue to do what they do,right?
So, yeah, I would I would justlook at, yeah, who are you are
as a leader, and then what areyou doing that you're proud of?
What are you doing that in turnis is leadership that you would
not appreciate?
You know, like I talked to aleader recently, and they were
like, Yeah, I didn't appreciatehow my my past supervisor, they
always told me to take a break,but they never took a break,
(17:54):
right?
And in turn, I didn't feel safeand open to take leave and take
PTO.
But then I would ask them, okay,as a leader now, do you do that?
And they say, no, I just preachit as well, but I don't even
take my own advice.
So right there, there's somecognitive dissonance.
Well, you just said you didn'tappreciate that, but you're
engaging in the same behavior,right?
So that pause and thatreflection is gonna boost their
(18:14):
emotional intelligence, theirawareness, and help them
continue to grow in theirleadership uh development.
SPEAKER_00 (18:19):
Let me give you a scenario and get your feedback
on it.
So I am uh when I'm engagingwith people, whether it's
coaching or strategicdevelopment or strategic
planning, what have you, one ofthe things that uh seems to be
occurring on a regular basis nowis this idea that work-life
balance, another uh phrase thatdidn't exist two, three decades
(18:40):
ago that has taken on a life ofits own, um, is not 50-50.
It can be 90-10, it can be10-90.
And as you move through theranks of an organization and
increase your experience, and ifyou want to be a climber and you
want to be in the C-suite, it'snot anywhere close to 50-50,
right?
These kinds of individuals seemto have in their bones a
(19:03):
restlessness, a fire, a drivethat puts them in that 70-30,
80-20, 90-10, sometimes 95-5space as the norm, right?
And and and and some of themhave found a partner, a life
partner, that understands thatand works with them in that,
right?
And others they didn't, and sooftentimes the divorce rates are
(19:26):
higher for those groups, groupsof folks.
Their relationships with theirchildren can be more strained,
their relationships with theirfriends can be more strained.
My point being that this uhwork-life balance is
differentiated across levels ofan organization, and as a
result, the the understanding ofsomething like psychological
safety is different at thesedifferent levels.
(19:47):
What is your thinking aroundthat?
SPEAKER_01 (19:50):
Hmm.
So I I've never personally usedthe term work-life balance, you
know, for the reason that youprovided.
I say instead work-lifeintegration or work-life
harmony, right?
Because you're not going to havethat 50-50.
SPEAKER_00 (20:03):
Uh, you think that what you're saying is that
balance implies 50-50 in today'ssort of language.
And so you've selected thisdifferent language to provide a
different visual, a differentfeel of how you think it should
really, it should really be.
Is that what am I hearing youright?
SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
Correct.
Yeah, because I really feel likea healthy organization is not,
oh, we only work two days aweek, right?
And the other two days we gettime off, right?
Instead, it's recognizing whenare your employees getting to
that point of going over thathilltop in which they're
beginning to be burned out,right?
When do they need to take thattime to you know uh fuel up to
(20:41):
take time for themselves, right?
And in turn, then they can getback to work and be engaged and
boost performance.
So instead of counting days,right, or how many hours you're
taking off, because you can takethat time off and that can be
extremely stressful.
Then you go back to work, you'reeven more stressed out, right?
Instead, it's more about what'sthe quality of the time that
you're taking for yourself.
(21:03):
And then how do we also bemindful, recognizing when we
start to get over that hill andget to that burnout, right?
And before we get there, we haveto be proactive and we have to
have that emotional intelligenceto say, hey, I don't need the
whole day off right now, but Ineed to uh, you know, just log
off a little early, right?
(21:24):
Or I need to, you know, be ableto not just take the holiday
off, but maybe, you know, havesome leaves saved up and you
know, I'm gonna be strategicabout that, right?
That's why, you know, actuallyunlimited PTO actually shows to
be more effective than boostingengagement, you know, than
having that standardized PTO,right?
Because companies have foundthat they actually save money by
giving unlimited PTO.
(21:44):
Because guess and if you areable to establish a culture in
which taking time off iscelebrated, then actually your
employees will be more dedicatedto the organization.
They will work harder, they'llfeel the more trusted, right?
Because they take their time offwhen they need it.
Um in terms they're gonnaactually be more engaged.
And there's other study thatshows that individuals who
(22:06):
actually have unlimited PTO takea little bit less time off than
standard PTO.
And so it's interesting, right,uh, that we see and boost
engagement with that.
So that's actually a policy mycompany has put in place, uh,
that limited PTO method.
Um, so we can give autonomy,build that psychological safety,
build that trust, right?
And now individuals um, youknow, with boundaries,
(22:28):
obviously, uh, they're able toengage in that work-life
integration.
SPEAKER_00 (22:31):
Agreed.
And I think, you know, whatcomes with that is obviously the
assumption that the keyperformance indicators are in
place and that you know whatyour job uh left and right
boundaries are and all theseother things.
But I like this idea ofunlimited PTO, it's something
that we have as well.
Is it something that you arerecommending across
organizational sizes or thatyou're at least asking people to
(22:53):
consider?
That this unlimited PTO piecemay indeed boost engagements.
It's something you shouldinvestigate.
Is that something you're doingacross sizes of organizations as
well?
SPEAKER_01 (23:02):
That's a good question.
Um, I think it really depends onorganizational culture, right?
So, for instance, the military,right, that may not work, right?
So, but other organizations itmay.
So, I think you have to take inthe cultural aspect of the
organization, what's alreadybeen instilled.
Because in turn, if you do itwrong, it can create that that
(23:23):
feeling of unsafety, yes, right,um, that we mentioned, right?
Oh, you're telling me to taketime off, but I know if I do
take this time off, then it'sgonna come with some
consequences, right?
So if psychological safety isnot in place, then it actually
can worsen the situation.
SPEAKER_00 (23:36):
Excellent, excellent.
So I like to leave time as weget to the wrap, we get to the
end and we wrap things up herefor folks to ask it a question
that may be on their mind thatis uh sort of bubbled up as
we've been talking, or somethingthey've had in their back pocket
they want to put in front of meto respond to in some kind of
way.
So, did you happen to havesomething that you wanted to
push out?
SPEAKER_01 (23:55):
Yeah, I'm curious.
We talked a lot about how doleaders intentionally boost
their emotional intelligence.
I'm curious, you as a leader,right, like what do you do in an
intentional way, right?
Because we know that leaderswith higher emotional
intelligence are able to, youknow, make that change, the
meaningful change, they're ableto boost team dynamics and
performance, right?
And just perform optimally,right, um, in their roles.
(24:18):
So I'm curious what you dointentionally to enhance your
emotional awareness andemotional intelligence.
SPEAKER_00 (24:22):
Yeah, well, here's a few things it uh that all have a
theme of being purposeful, beingintentional.
Um, you talked about um takingtime off intentionally.
I will intentionally take a20-minute, 30-minute vacation.
I'm not thinking about any ofthis stuff.
I'm going for a walk, I'm gonnawork, I've been working on my
learning Spanish, I put myheadphones on, go for a walk, or
(24:44):
I'm gonna lay down and take a10-minute nap, but it's
completely disconnected and it'svery purposeful.
Similarly, I will ask questionsof people that I know will tell
me their version of the truthabout how I'm doing, what I'm
missing.
Uh, and if are there unmet needsthat they have that I haven't
(25:04):
met that I committed to somekind of way?
Right?
Are we miscommunicating aboutkey issues and key uh challenges
that we both agreed to facetogether?
Right?
Am I have I been clear?
So that the check-ins areimportant, but it's also an
opportunity for me to sharesomething like this.
I expect you to help me bebetter.
(25:25):
Right?
And part of the commitment I'mmaking to you is that I am going
to listen very hard and I'mgonna ask a bunch of questions
that make sure that I'munderstanding what it is that
you're trying to tell me.
And it won't, it's not a backand forth, uh, you gave me some
feedback, I'm gonna give yousome.
No, I'm asking for you to do methe favor of helping me be
(25:47):
better.
And I'm expecting you to give methe best that you can, give it,
do the best that you can.
So for me, it's about you knowfinding that uh advisory board,
sort of personal andprofessional advisory board, and
then opening up to them andasking them for their assistance
and in the context of theirresponses, letting them know
that I expect them to give it tome and to do it in the best way
(26:08):
they can.
And sometimes the best way theycan is not loving, it's not
perhaps friendly, uh, becausethey've only got 10 minutes to
shove in 30 minutes worth of uhworth of feedback.
So um I try to make those thingshappen very uh aggressively, and
then when they say to me, readthis, watch this, uh follow up
with me about it, then I I tryto follow up on those and
(26:31):
follow, follow up and followthrough on those things as well.
SPEAKER_01 (26:34):
Yeah, it's great.
I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_00 (26:36):
Yeah, it's been it's been helpful for me to to do
that.
It helps to accelerate me, butit also helps to pause me.
You know, sometimes in in theseroles that we have, um, as you
may have experienced, you're onthe stage a lot, you're in front
a lot, and it it takes an activedose of humility, like a shot of
humility that you may have togive to yourself, to your point
(26:59):
uh before, to pause so that youcan get yeah, yes.
So thank you so much for all ofyour outstanding feelings.
It's a very rich, multi-layeredconversation.
I really appreciate you takingsome time to do that.
I'm certain the listeners aregonna get a great deal out of
it, and it's wonderful clips forpeople to engage in over time.
So I really appreciate it.
Any final words to share?
SPEAKER_01 (27:21):
Yeah, no, I'll just encourage everyone to recognize,
you know, this is a journey thatwe're all on, right?
I mean, um, you know, we can,you know, implement some of
these strategies that we learnedtoday, but just recognize we
have to continue to pushforward, and the only way we're
able to get forward is to sitwith that discomfort, approach
that discomfort in a safe way.
(27:41):
And in turn, that's gonna leadto development and growth.
SPEAKER_00 (27:45):
Last piece, how can people find you?
What's the best way for folks tofind you if they need to follow
up with you about some work theywant to get done or they want to
follow up with you to learn moreabout the work that you're
doing?
SPEAKER_01 (27:56):
Yeah, so you can reach out at our website at
www.rc warnerconsulting.com.
You can also find me onLinkedIn, Ryan C.
Warner PhD.
Feel free to send a directmessage saying that you listen
to me on this podcast.
I'd be happy to connect.
You can also Google my name, Dr.
Ryan C.
Warner, my information will comeup.
SPEAKER_00 (28:16):
Thank you so much, sir.
Really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (28:19):
Thanks for having me.
It's been great.
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