February 26, 2025 • 38 mins
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Join us as we delve into the profound connections between postpartum experiences and end-of-life care in this enlightening episode. Our guest, Molly, is a postpartum and death doula, a certified Ayurvedic coach, and the host of The Busy Mom’s Guide to Meditation Podcast! She shares her rich insights on navigating the complexities of these pivotal transitions in life. We also explore how doulas offer essential emotional support, particularly in environments where healthcare practitioners may feel overwhelmed yet strive to provide compassionate care.
This discussion is a reminder of the shared experiences between mothers and grieving families, illustrating how both journeys are interwoven with themes of transformation, loss, and resilience. You'll learn about the crucial role that community plays in emotional healing, as well as the importance of holding space for ourselves and others during these challenging times.
Your perspective on care might shift as we reveal the misconceptions that exist within healthcare about doulas. By understanding their unique support role, nurses and caregivers can enhance their practice and advocate for better resources for families in need.
Don’t miss out on this heartwarming conversation! Tune in, reflect on your own experiences, and connect with us! Subscribe, share your thoughts, and let’s continue the dialogue about healing and nurturing in our communities.
Stay tuned as the Meditation Tapes continue next week!!
Hey! Make sure you subscribe to stay connected. Love a nurse? Who doesn't! Share with all the nurses you know. The more we reach, the more we help. We feel like no one deserves center stage focus more than nurses and our mission is to reach the millions of superstars out there. We'd love to hear your stories, your adventures, your wins, and especially your needs and questions! Email us at hello@ritualnurse (dot) com. Also, you can send us fan mail! Use the link at the beginning of the show notes. Resources, classes, blogs, and podcast info can be found on our home site at TCTH.org. The Ritual Nurse Podcast is part of The Code Team educational platform.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to the Ritual Nurse, where healing meets
humor, science and a touch ofmagic.
Welcome back to the RitualNurse podcast, where we keep it
real about healing, resilienceand the chaos of nursing nurse
podcast where we keep it realabout healing, resilience and
the chaos of nursing.
I'm your host, reva, and todaywe have a very special guest for
an incredible interview episodeseries.
(00:32):
If you have ever felt likeyou're running on empty, caught
between the demands of work,family and life, then you're in
for a treat.
My guest today is someone wholiterally holds space for life's
most profound transitions.
Molly is a postpartum and deathdoula and Ayurvedic health
coach and the host of the busymom's guide to meditation
podcast, now in its third season.
She is also a busy mom of threelittle ones, so she knows all
(00:56):
about balancing care for otherswhile trying to stay sane
herself.
Molly, welcome to the ritualnurse.
I am so excited to have youhere.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, thanks for having me so.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I would love to find out more, like tell us a little
bit about you and how you becamea doula, I mean with having my
own children.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
it all kind of came about organically, with all of
my friends having kids about thesame time and just being in and
around all of the differentstruggles that come with that.
So, as we all kind of navigatedthis together and attending a
lot of the different supportgroups in town and things, that
(01:37):
it really opened my eyes to theidea of doula work.
At the time I did not know thatpostpartum doulaing or death
doulas were a thing.
I had a bit of a difficultbirth in the hospital with my
first and so becoming a birthdoula was really something that
(01:58):
scared me.
I knew I hadn't put that behindme to be able to do that.
And a friend mentionedpostpartum doula work and I
immediately grasped onto thatand decided to just started
doing all of the research intowhat is that and what would that
look like and what kind ofcourses are out there.
(02:19):
And about the same time mygrandmother was in and out of
the hospital.
She was having a lot of healthissues.
She was almost 90.
And I was back and forth a lotjust helping my family go
through that transition.
As we knew she was gettingcloser to death.
She was put on hospice and justbeing able.
I have a very large family.
(02:40):
She has seven survivingchildren and most of them have
families, children.
So um of myself and my cousins,you know we all they all kind
of popped in and out, but I wasthere with my aunts.
I was giving them breaks, youknow cause I'm visiting from out
of town, my family's not there,and so I was able to do that.
(03:00):
I was able to take some of theovernights with her.
Before you know, thingsprogressed too much and really
kind of shared that space withthem in a very unique way, and
that one of my aunts is also anurse and she mentioned death
work and some of the commentsshe'd made, and so that brought
(03:22):
me to looking into that side ofit at the same time as the
postpartum stuff, and it allfell together very organically.
So I took some courses forpostpartum doula and then I
rolled straight into death doulacourses and everything kind of
(03:42):
just did it together and thatmakes sense because I mean the
kind of common theme it soundslike between the experiences are
that they are very significantevents.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
A lot of nurturing and transformational work is
happening in both of thoseevents and the kind of nurturing
and support that's provided.
I think it's a very specialkind.
Most nurses, unless they workin a specific field, probably
aren't aware of the resources ofdoulas that are out there.
(04:15):
I know as an ER, like ICU nurse, I didn't until I was had read
your stuff and I was like Whoa,like I think I've.
I've heard of doulas like inbirth.
You know I did, I did rotationsand labor and delivery.
But how cool for for otherthresholds, for other
(04:36):
transformational periodspostpartum is is a totally
transformational period for thefamily and the individual as his
death and end of life andautonomy and helping a family
and that individual, likeprepare for those
transformations, is so deeplysignificant.
(04:59):
I mean it makes sense that itwould organically be kind of the
same thing with differentobjectives.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I guess.
Yeah, I was having aconversation with some fellow
fellow death doulas recently andtalking about how moving into
the postpartum period, having ababy, is a type of death of the
self.
Absolutely.
I mean, your brain literallyrewires itself so the person you
(05:27):
were before does not existanymore, and so finding that
they are so closelyinterconnected and in the
postpartum period there's agrieving process just like with
a physical death yes, absolutelythat.
It's something that's just nottalked about.
And so, yeah, it's this huge,very emotional time and being
(05:50):
able to have that understandingand especially with not as much
community support for moms asthere used to be, oh, absolutely
, like you.
Just, you feel alone and you'regrieving alone, which is a
dangerous place to be, which iswhy the you know pms and
postpartum depression andanxiety is so high anymore, and
(06:11):
I think in confusion as well.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I mean, I know, postpartum, I struggled with a
not knowing how to be a mominitially, and then not knowing
how to be a mom to two initially, because they're both
transformations.
It's not like you have one kidat least it wasn't for me, I
can't speak for everyone andthen not knowing how to be a mom
to two initially, becausethey're both transformations.
It's not like you have one kid,at least it wasn't for me.
I can't speak for everyone, butit's not like you have one
child and then you have a secondchild and somehow you just
(06:34):
innately know what you're doing.
Sure, maybe some things youpanic a little bit less about,
or whatever, but I remember justconstantly being overwhelmed
with the thoughts of I don'tknow what I'm doing, I don't
know how to do this and I don'thave anyone that I can ask.
And is this my new normal Like?
Is this, what is this?
(06:55):
What even is this?
You know, and I've seen familiesgo through that in the ICU, you
know, preparing for the deathof a loved one, and we don't
have the resources or thecapability.
We try as much as we can toprovide space for them and
support them and be therapeutic.
You know in that space withthem, but we're applying too
(07:16):
many technical and like didacticthings.
We're assessing and medicaljargon is flying around them and
you know we're givingmedications and there isn't
anything therapeutic about thatenvironment whatsoever,
regardless of our intent.
And I think what do you thinkare the biggest misconceptions
that you run into about thiskind of work, like from either
(07:40):
healthcare providers or becausea lot of nurses aren't going to
know.
A lot of nurses don't going toknow.
A lot of nurses don't even knowwhat it is Right.
And I've run into nurses thatdon't understand the difference
between palliative care, hospicecare.
Yeah, I mean, if they have noexposure to it, they don't even
know that it's out there.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, I think just knowing the scope of care is
where a lot of misconceptioncomes from.
Coming into a hospital settingas a doula and I hear this a lot
from our birth doulas in acommunity locally that I'm a
(08:19):
part of that's full of birth,postpartum and death doulas.
That's full of birth,postpartum and death doulas
because we do partner with oneof the local hospitals to be
able to go in and be really apart of the care team.
It's fantastic that's amazing,but it's brought a lot of that
knowledge and understanding ofwhat doulas are and what do we
(08:39):
do, because our scope of care isnot anywhere near where a nurse
is.
We are there to educate,advocate for the birthing person
, if they need that, and supportand be there as space holders
(09:06):
when the nurse is coming in.
They have a job to do and thatis not our job, you know.
So I think a lot of times themisconception is that there's
more overlap than there is Okayand and I think that's the
biggest thing to to understandis that like there's not like
and you know we're, they werethere for the birthing person A
scope of nursing is not anywherenear our scope, which is really
interesting because we bothwork in that care space.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Right, I think you fill a need though that we're
not able to get to like like we,we can attempt to.
But you know, if we had deathdoulas in the ICU, what, what a
transformative experience thatwould be for the family.
Like I can only wish that wehad that to offer them, because
(09:52):
that aspect of things the spacethat you're holding, the care
you're providing, the education,the nurturing, the
communication we can do bits ofthat while we are completing,
you know, like the scope of ourpractice and our job.
But it doesn't that that thatgaping hole of need that the
family needs to to make thatexperience not so traumatic for
(10:13):
them, is exactly the positionthat you fill and I wish that.
I'm super excited that it ismore recognized in labor and
delivery, like in maternal childside.
But I wish that we had that inin other aspects.
I wish that you guys could bein postpartum.
I wish you guys could be in theICU, even in the ER, that, like
(10:34):
if we had somebody.
I get that it's not a longerprocess, you know it might be a
more immediate process, butstill the experience that you
have in helping familiesnavigate that or approach that
understanding is, is somethingthat sometimes we can't, we
don't have time.
It sounds awful to say that, ohmy gosh, well, and we just
(10:56):
don't have, we don't have thetime to do it the time and and
the, the, the people.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
A lot of times, nursing is understaffed and so
you are needing to care for somany people in such a short
amount of time that it is.
You know, every nurse that I'veever come in contact with has
such a compassionate heart andyou put all of that into your
(11:25):
job.
But when you have to go fromyou know one person to the next,
to the next, it becomes reallyhard to feel like you're giving
each person the care and thefocus and the compassion that
you want to give each person.
Yes, and I feel like that'salmost part of the problem,
(11:46):
because you want to be there andyou want to do that and the
system isn't set up for it.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
That's a huge struggle.
There are a lot of nurses thatcarry guilt and feel like they
can't take care of theirpatients adequately because of
the staffing because of the waythat you know the healthcare
system is set up.
That's a huge thing and we'renot.
We are educated, like innursing theory.
We are educated academically interms of, like the application
(12:14):
of nursing theory and what itmeans to be therapeutic.
And we do have psychiatriceducation and psychology.
We're taught these subjects inour degrees but we don't have
any hands-on training in thatspace because there's no room
for that in our job descriptionat the bedside.
(12:35):
Now, I can't speak for hospicenurses, I can't speak for home
health nurses.
I can't speak for home healthnurses.
I've I've only worked incritical care and emergency
medicine and a little bit inadolescent psychiatry.
So I'm sure that those fieldsare structured differently and,
you know, do do work differently.
(12:56):
In that regard, I think one ofthe things that and I just
realized that I wanted to findout both answers but the
question that I asked you wasnot misconceptions about what
you do, but I wanted to find outwhat are the most common
misconceptions you run into thatpeople have about death or
about, like, the postpartumperiod, like the transitions
(13:18):
themselves?
Speaker 2 (13:21):
like the postpartum period like the transitions
themselves.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I think a lot of it is lack of communication between
people.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
We have a lot of views about the postpartum
period.
Yes, you should be in thisbubble of joy and love your baby
and everything is going to justhappen and you're going to
figure it out.
But the reality is you feellike an island in turbulent seas
(13:46):
with no boat.
And if you do have a boat, it'sa canoe and you have half a
paddle and it's really difficult.
And opening the conversationcan clear up a lot of that, and
just getting moms together andmoms that have friends or other
(14:09):
people in their sphere that aregoing through the same thing at
the same time are the only oneswho are talking about it.
I was having a conversationrecently and one of my friends
was like well, why don't, whydoesn't anybody tell you that?
And I was thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I've said that so many times as a new mother and I
think what?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
happens is is that when you're in it, you're in it?
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
And when you get past that phase you kind of have
that mom brain moment of justclouding past it and then you
forget you, you're, you makeyourself forget because it was
not an easy or fun time to be inCorrect and then real quick,
just in the death side again.
Grief is something taboo totalk about.
People find it veryuncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yes, they are.
They can't sit in thatemotional uncomfortableness.
Yes, to even talk about theprocess or acknowledge it, or
and I think new moms are likethat too we don't want to say
anything cause we don't lookstupid.
Yeah, you know or ungrateful, orany of that and moms that have
already been through it.
Unless you're actually talkingto a mom going through it, it's
(15:15):
like two ships passing in thenight, like you have the
information but you're notreally sure that somebody in
your sphere is experiencing itand you just don't.
You're you know you're fightingyour battles in the next stage
of the unknown.
These things don't come with amanual, so I got to figure this
out and I think yeah, I mean themiscommunication part of it is
(15:38):
so massive I wonder if it's likethat just here.
Or I wonder, I wonder if that'sa cultural thing.
Like I wonder if it's like thatin other cultures.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I think it depends on the culture, honestly, because
I know there are cultures thatare more comfortable with death
or that have a very supportivecultural understanding of the
postpartum time, and so I thinkthat some of it is culturally
here.
We tend to brush it under therug, right it's not pretty.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I don't want to look at it.
Yes, that makes sense.
Emotions are uncomfortable,right, emotions are vastly
uncomfortable.
On that note, we're going togive you guys a break.
If you are going to head backto the floor, then use this
musical interlude to know whento press pause and come right
back to it when you can.
We wish you the best shift andthe easiest orders and the best
(16:32):
patience and the kindestresidence.
If you are going to be hangingout with us, then use this
moment to refresh your coffee oryour tea.
Enjoy the music for a moment,and when we come back, we're
going to talk with Molly aboutholding space.
This is really applicable tonurses and our experience of
some of these really significanttransformations for our
(16:53):
patients and for ourselves.
But enjoy the music for amoment and we will see you after
the break.
(17:19):
All right, thank you so much.
If you are still hanging outwith us, if you are coming back
to us after your shift or onanother break, we hope that it
has been just going amazing.
So we were talking about,before our break, transitions in
the postpartum space andtransitions that patients and
(17:42):
families have to deal with withdeath what we've been kind of
talking about as a theme in theritual nurse so far is
protecting our own peace, andI'm really interested in the
space that you hold, like howare you able to hold space for
others in these emotionallyintense moments while also
protecting your own energy andwellbeing, because we know
(18:05):
you're a very busy lady.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
I think the biggest thing within those really high
intensity moments is, for me, Ilike grounding out and
maintaining my own sense of self.
I think in those moments weempathize with people going
through really difficult times.
(18:29):
If you are dealing with apostpartum person and you are
also a mother, a lot of thingscan either be triggering or
they're just so relatable thatit's easy to get caught up in
remembering your own experienceswhile hearing theirs, and so
you take that on and it's likeyour body's reliving it right.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yes, the body holds on to those memories and
feelings Exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
So I think in that moment, just maintaining your
own sense of self, remindingyourself in the moment that you
are not going through that it istheir experience and you're
holding space and witnessingthem, is a great way to kind of
distance yourself withoutreleasing the compassion.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
That is the most phenomenal description I think I
have ever heard of therapeuticboundaries.
We throw that word around likea corporate buzzword, but that's
the best description that I'veever heard of it, like as you
were saying it I don't thestupid look on my face, I, and
of course our listeners, can'tsee it, but I was like, oh my
(19:39):
gosh, I can actually visualizewhat you're saying and like
holding that therapeuticboundary is like keeping myself
within my lines, like theoutline of who I am and I don't
know why.
Mentally, this picture justcame to mind of you know, like
an outline of a person on paperbut full of watercolor, and you
(20:02):
have to keep the boundary andyou know your patient has the
same boundary and they havewatercolor and if you don't, the
watercolor starts to meshtogether and it's so
intrinsically hard to separate.
Yes, and I'm like, oh my gosh,as nurses, if we're able to
remind ourselves that we're notexperiencing what they're
experiencing, but we're here tohelp them with it and our
(20:24):
ability to relate can enhanceour empathy and we can maybe
think of what we needed in thatmoment or what would have helped
us in that moment, but we haveto keep ourselves from reliving
that moment Exactly and that isso huge.
Now I know exactly what I needto tell my nursing students next
week.
That's absolutely amazing.
(20:45):
That is the coolest way I thinkI've ever heard therapeutic
boundaries actually explained,because we talk about it all the
time and I don't think we Idon't think we actually explain
it to nurses, but I've neverheard somebody say it like that
before.
That is wild.
That's amazing.
Nurses, a lot of times, thewhole spectrum of experiences
(21:06):
that they have ranges from thehappiest to the absolute worst.
And knowing what you know aboutholding space for people, what
would be like?
What would be like a point ofwisdom that you would give
nurses when it comes tonavigating high and low, like
(21:27):
these swings of, I guess, likeemotional context, or you know
that they're going to deal withwith their patients, cause it's
not, it is swings, it is upsdowns, it's not just all bad or
all good.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Right, I think you know the highs, the good times
definitely help in those periodsof of the really difficult
things.
But especially dealing, like onmy end, with the grief and you
know that kind of we'll call itnegative, it negative emotion,
less desirable.
There is a beauty in that and Ithink being able to recognize
(22:08):
that you being able to be there,holding space for somebody to
be in that place, when so manypeople are not given the just
the okay to open up and be inthat space of grief, it can be a
really beautiful process and,just again, being that witness
to that and like holding thatspace being open for somebody to
(22:32):
be able to break down, becauseprocessing that emotion is where
you don't get that likeemotional constipation.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
But hand in hand with that is, again, not not holding
on to that yourself and beingable to appropriately process
your own emotions.
So do you debrief with otherdoulas or I am.
I do have a therapist, but II'm actually in um, a community
(23:03):
of doulas in town, well,statewide, and it does offer
that community of support forfor all of us I think you talked
about this in one of yourprevious episodes of that that
trauma bonding, and that issomething that is really kind of
dangerous territory.
But within this community,having a space where you're like
(23:25):
, hey, I just had a reallydifficult overnight.
Or hey, I'm coming off a reallydifficult birth, can somebody
just talk to me about this?
Or like, hey, I'm dealing withthis better than the other, and
being able to be then held bysomebody else in that space,
somebody who understands thatit's really hard.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Who can?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
relate and be like yeah, that sounds really
terrible.
You know, have you gotten a nap, have you?
You know, maybe go home andsleep and we'll talk after take
a shower.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
You're validating and providing structure for
somebody that may not be able tonavigate that at the moment,
and that's that is verydifferent.
Than you know, trauma bondingdoesn't have a healing or a
purposeful intent.
Exactly, it is a emotionalsoothing, if you will.
It is a maladaptive way offorming a connection, but it is
(24:15):
not done with the intent.
It's not actually doneconsciously.
Usually it's not done with theintent of it being a positive,
like an engagement.
A positive engagement and Idon't mean positive as in like
all happy cheery, I just mean asin providing engagement that
helps a person move forward andthrough you know, whatever it is
(24:36):
that they're dealing with.
So providing structure forsomeone while also validating
what they're experiencing givesthem something, I think, to hold
on to while they're expressingthe emotions outward and not
shoving them in boxes, becausewe compartmentalize things like
it's like we do it like we'rebreathing and we don't ever
unpack them and then when theboxes explode, we can't function
(25:00):
anymore.
Right?
And a lot of nurses that itreally doesn't matter what field
you're in are.
We face these highs and lowsall the time, and I think in
nursing there's a huge stigma ofnot being able to talk about it
, because in nursing, if youcan't handle something or you're
(25:21):
emotionally affected, you know,deeply affected by something.
The stigma false stigma is thatit somehow makes you weak or
unable to be the structure foryour patients or be reliable or,
you know, be a strong link inthe chain, whatever.
For the team it's absolute BS.
(25:43):
And I think nurses need tocreate more communities like the
ones that you're describing,because they need to be able to
hold space and not in a, in adebrief.
In a hospital setting, nobodyever actually talks honestly
about their personal emotionsand feelings.
We'll cover what happened,we'll cover the policies,
procedures, all that other stuff.
Um, because they are afraid ofrepercussions or afraid of a
(26:06):
stigma or afraid of negativity,and I think that's a really
important component to have likefor nurses to start creating.
I'm sure that there are nursingcommunities out there that do
that, but with the actual intentof it being positive, engaged,
like structural support in a way.
You know, I think that's reallyincredible.
That's a, that's a unique thing.
(26:28):
Maybe that's something thatwe're going to have to start
fostering with the ritual nurse.
Is there anything that reallystands out to you the most in
terms of just the years thatyou've been doing this?
What's your favorite thingabout it?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
I enjoy working with people and helping people.
Everything I have ever done inmy life has always kind of been
revolved around helping people,and many times families or other
women, mothers, and so it yeah,it's all kind of this space of
helping people heal or be in youknow a better place achieving
(27:07):
their goals or yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
It's all about the people like nurturing, I think
for you is your, it's like youressence, it's like your vibe.
I know our listeners aren'tsitting next to Molly and can't
tell this, but it just you aresomebody, who you're.
You're one of the few peoplethat I've seen whose job and the
point of their job is actuallyit matches, actually your
(27:33):
essence, like matches you.
Like it, just like I wish people.
I wish our listeners could sitnext to you.
They would get it, and I thinkthat's just wonderful.
Yeah, we're here, like I likehugs.
Yes, yes, and the funny thing isis people gravitate towards
hugging you all the time.
I only hug people that I like alot, and most other people I'm
(27:54):
kind of like a cat and liketouch me, but from over there
and not actually touching me.
Thanks, but I am always up forhugs from Molly.
Now I think we're going tosegue on that note to our
favorite section of the podcastAt least it's one of my fun ones
which is coffee crystals anddivination.
And I am on whole 30 this weekpeople.
(28:17):
So my access to my favoritecoffees and those kinds of
things have been highly limited.
But I do want to say that it'scaused me to get kind of
inventive and really try tothink of ways that I can have my
favorite thing, and it's kindof a soothing.
I don't drink coffee because Ineed it, I, it's just kind of a
(28:40):
soothing thing but ways torecreate that so that I'm still
meeting my need.
And, honestly, the morefragrant a tea that I've found
or had, it must be somethingabout the combination of the
senses of it being soothing andwarm and olfactory.
Yeah, so my drinks of choicethis week have been like the
most fragrant herbal and fruitteas I can possibly find, and
(29:03):
it's just been filling the space, I guess.
Yeah, no, I haven't had accessto my normal coffee and I've
just been trying to survive it.
Normally I have like a cooldrink or something you know that
I've picked out.
That is my favorite for theweek and I guess the fruit and
herbal teas are kind of doing it.
If you guys have ever been on awhole 30, tell me in either the
(29:25):
comments or the show notes whatyour favorites for whole 30 have
been.
There's usually the go-tos oflike plant milks and then trying
to make that work withoutsweeteners.
It's the sweeteners thing thatgets me.
But let me know, let me knowwhat concoctions you guys have
come up with for your favoritewaters, your favorite drinks.
I'm going to pull an Oraclecard for our divination for this
episode.
I don't know if you've everseen these, but the crystal
(29:47):
portal Oracle is awesome.
It's gorgeous.
Uh, so far they've beenincredibly on point, but these
are super fun.
Do you have a favorite deck?
I have a couple.
Isn't that the case?
I probably have like 30 or 40 ofthem.
I actually brought two.
(30:07):
Did you Then for our tarot partof it, because I draw an oracle
card and then I draw a tarotone.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I mean, my oracle isn't God those are so cute.
I know I crocheted this.
My oracle is not crystals, well, okay, the one that I brought
isn't crystals, mm-hmm, but it'scalled the Spirit Mama's Oracle
, which I love, and actually oneof my friends came up with this
(30:36):
with her Came up with theoracle deck.
Yeah, with her, we're going touse yours.
Her friend, I'm going to stopshopping.
Yeah, the Spirit Mamas,victoria and Tiffany, they're
fantastic.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
I love it.
I'm going to have to look themup and this is their Spirit
Mamas Oracle.
So put it on the, put it onsocials, but how pretty is this.
Look at these.
Wait, I am wondering if I sawthis deck at a sound healing
that Jen did Interesting.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Okay, yeah, well, I'm like I did also bring a tarot,
but it's not as on brand.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
That does not matter, it's okay.
However, draw an oracle card.
Let's see what happens.
I love it.
I love when my guests bringtheir own decks.
Draw an Oracle card, let's seewhat happens.
I love it.
I love when my guests bringtheir own decks.
I mean, I do love using thecrystal one, but I love seeing
the other decks and they'reincredible.
The healing mother, totallyirrelevant.
Love it, wow.
(31:37):
Okay, that is a stunninglybeautiful card.
I'm going to have to takepictures of these, so these the
I will put the deck and if I canfind links to the authors, of
course, um, on our socials sothat you guys can see how
absolutely beautiful this deckis.
Um, and if you want to purchaseit from the artists, uh,
(31:58):
hopefully I'll be able to findthe link and I'll put it on
there.
But what is the meaning of thiscard?
Speaker 2 (32:04):
So, the imagery is is a woman and she is a
representation of the goddessSekhmet, and so she is.
It says she's here to heal yourdivine feminine, because we
live in such a masculine worldwith all of these systems and
(32:25):
constructs.
And so it's about stepping intoyour feminine power, whether
it's your relationship toyourself or other women in your
life.
Allow this balance in yourenergy to be restored and
basically reminding you that thefeminine isn't soft or weak,
not when it comes to segment, no, exactly.
(32:46):
So hold your boundaries, whichwe mentioned and totally
irrelevant, lovingly releasinganything that no longer serves
you.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
That is absolutely perfect.
That is wildly amazing.
Yes, Wildly amazing.
Okay, so which gosh?
That's incredible.
Which tarot deck did you bring?
As she giggles and looks at meI love this.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
This is my horror tarot, because I absolutely love
this deck Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Now quick question.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I'm like maybe it's the morbid fascination.
You said horror right, horror.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Okay, yes, yes, I mean the other.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
You said horror right , horror, okay, yes, yes, I mean
the morbid fascination wouldhave been just fine too.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I'm like, hey, not a problem, yeah, it's in a very
like oh, okay, I love horror yeshorror themed cloth, love the
cloth um I love this um, butyeah, maybe it's the morbid
fascination in me that just isdrawn to stuff like this and you
know, you know, I think peoplethat deal with death and do so
(33:48):
like with eyes open, likecognitively, fully when did you
go?
Do have a differentrelationship to its concepts, to
its imagery, to discussionsabout it, to all that.
You know, it's not taboo for us.
So I think a lot of nurses canrelate to that heavily, heavily,
(34:09):
heavily.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
So when I work in the financial services industry and
so working within like thedeath community and being
connected with, like protectingyour legacy and helping people
do that and achieve theirfinancial goals, it all is very
interconnected and I absolutelylove having death conversations
with our office manager becausehe gets really uncomfortable oh
(34:35):
no.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
That's amazing.
Yes, so for your deck, thislooks like the Ten of Wands
amazing, yes, so for your deck,this looks like the 10 of wands
and there's a scroll and a we'llcall it a chalice and 10
candles that are lit.
What does your deck have to sayabout this, or what is your
interpretation for your deck forthis?
(34:59):
So I think the 10 of wands hasa lot to do with emotion and the
propensity of especially forthis one, of being in touch with
your emotions and understandingthe meaning that they're
supposed to bring to you and theway that they're arranged in
this card.
It looks exactly likeboundaries around the central
(35:22):
figure, yeah, and they are alllit.
None of them are sideways,they're all upright, providing a
really clear.
It's almost like a circlearound the central figure and
the scroll and the meaning.
So, again, totally irrelevant,but and I say totally relevant,
(35:43):
completely like sarcastically,I'm saying it fully ironically,
not irrelevant but, and I saytotally relevant, um, completely
like sarcastically, I'm sayingit fully ironically, not
unironically, but that's, uh,that's an incredible card.
I love the deck and I love thecoloring of the deck.
Like holy cow, yeah, how longhave you had that deck?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Oh, I don't know, maybe a year, year and a half,
not super long.
So I'm still like there arestill cards in here.
Obviously I've like summedthrough the deck but yeah, there
are cards I've still neverpulled wow, okay, so this one is
really specific in its meaning.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Another thing that the 10 of wands can signify is
overwhelm and like having toomuch in front of you or having
too much on your plate, and therecommendation usually when the
10 of wands comes up in thatcontext is that you need to hold
boundaries and that you need tohold space for yourself, like
you have too many things in yourspace and you need to let go of
(36:42):
what's not working, and inorder to do that, you have to
have adequate boundaries.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Cause again completely not relevant to
anything we talked about today.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
What so ever?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
I want to thank everyone for listening to the
podcast and definitely you'regoing to want to check out next
week's episode.
Just make sure that you areholding space and boundaries for
yourself.
Make sure that you are takingcare of yourself and giving
yourself the space to voice whenyou're not able to do that or
when you're struggling to dothat.
(37:17):
The only way that we can learnhow to take care of ourselves is
by practicing this, andsometimes that requires help and
that is okay.
And if you need to reach out,if you are struggling, you know.
Please make sure that you arereaching out to the resources
around you.
If you're in the U S nine,eight eight is an amazing
resource.
I just want to tell you I loveyour faces and until next time
(37:40):
we'll see you then.
Welcome to the Ritual Nurse, where healing meets
humor, science and a touch ofmagic.
Welcome back to the RitualNurse podcast, where we keep it
real about healing, resilienceand the chaos of nursing nurse
podcast where we keep it realabout healing, resilience and
the chaos of nursing.
I'm your host, reva, and todaywe have a very special guest for
an incredible interview episodeseries.
(00:32):
If you have ever felt likeyou're running on empty, caught
between the demands of work,family and life, then you're in
for a treat.
My guest today is someone wholiterally holds space for life's
most profound transitions.
Molly is a postpartum and deathdoula and Ayurvedic health
coach and the host of the busymom's guide to meditation
podcast, now in its third season.
She is also a busy mom of threelittle ones, so she knows all
(00:56):
about balancing care for otherswhile trying to stay sane
herself.
Molly, welcome to the ritualnurse.
I am so excited to have youhere.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, thanks for having me so.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I would love to find out more, like tell us a little
bit about you and how you becamea doula, I mean with having my
own children.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
it all kind of came about organically, with all of
my friends having kids about thesame time and just being in and
around all of the differentstruggles that come with that.
So, as we all kind of navigatedthis together and attending a
lot of the different supportgroups in town and things, that
(01:37):
it really opened my eyes to theidea of doula work.
At the time I did not know thatpostpartum doulaing or death
doulas were a thing.
I had a bit of a difficultbirth in the hospital with my
first and so becoming a birthdoula was really something that
(01:58):
scared me.
I knew I hadn't put that behindme to be able to do that.
And a friend mentionedpostpartum doula work and I
immediately grasped onto thatand decided to just started
doing all of the research intowhat is that and what would that
look like and what kind ofcourses are out there.
(02:19):
And about the same time mygrandmother was in and out of
the hospital.
She was having a lot of healthissues.
She was almost 90.
And I was back and forth a lotjust helping my family go
through that transition.
As we knew she was gettingcloser to death.
She was put on hospice and justbeing able.
I have a very large family.
(02:40):
She has seven survivingchildren and most of them have
families, children.
So um of myself and my cousins,you know we all they all kind
of popped in and out, but I wasthere with my aunts.
I was giving them breaks, youknow cause I'm visiting from out
of town, my family's not there,and so I was able to do that.
(03:00):
I was able to take some of theovernights with her.
Before you know, thingsprogressed too much and really
kind of shared that space withthem in a very unique way, and
that one of my aunts is also anurse and she mentioned death
work and some of the commentsshe'd made, and so that brought
(03:22):
me to looking into that side ofit at the same time as the
postpartum stuff, and it allfell together very organically.
So I took some courses forpostpartum doula and then I
rolled straight into death doulacourses and everything kind of
(03:42):
just did it together and thatmakes sense because I mean the
kind of common theme it soundslike between the experiences are
that they are very significantevents.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
A lot of nurturing and transformational work is
happening in both of thoseevents and the kind of nurturing
and support that's provided.
I think it's a very specialkind.
Most nurses, unless they workin a specific field, probably
aren't aware of the resources ofdoulas that are out there.
(04:15):
I know as an ER, like ICU nurse, I didn't until I was had read
your stuff and I was like Whoa,like I think I've.
I've heard of doulas like inbirth.
You know I did, I did rotationsand labor and delivery.
But how cool for for otherthresholds, for other
(04:36):
transformational periodspostpartum is is a totally
transformational period for thefamily and the individual as his
death and end of life andautonomy and helping a family
and that individual, likeprepare for those
transformations, is so deeplysignificant.
(04:59):
I mean it makes sense that itwould organically be kind of the
same thing with differentobjectives.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I guess.
Yeah, I was having aconversation with some fellow
fellow death doulas recently andtalking about how moving into
the postpartum period, having ababy, is a type of death of the
self.
Absolutely.
I mean, your brain literallyrewires itself so the person you
(05:27):
were before does not existanymore, and so finding that
they are so closelyinterconnected and in the
postpartum period there's agrieving process just like with
a physical death yes, absolutelythat.
It's something that's just nottalked about.
And so, yeah, it's this huge,very emotional time and being
(05:50):
able to have that understandingand especially with not as much
community support for moms asthere used to be, oh, absolutely
, like you.
Just, you feel alone and you'regrieving alone, which is a
dangerous place to be, which iswhy the you know pms and
postpartum depression andanxiety is so high anymore, and
(06:11):
I think in confusion as well.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I mean, I know, postpartum, I struggled with a
not knowing how to be a mominitially, and then not knowing
how to be a mom to two initially, because they're both
transformations.
It's not like you have one kidat least it wasn't for me, I
can't speak for everyone andthen not knowing how to be a mom
to two initially, becausethey're both transformations.
It's not like you have one kid,at least it wasn't for me.
I can't speak for everyone, butit's not like you have one
child and then you have a secondchild and somehow you just
(06:34):
innately know what you're doing.
Sure, maybe some things youpanic a little bit less about,
or whatever, but I remember justconstantly being overwhelmed
with the thoughts of I don'tknow what I'm doing, I don't
know how to do this and I don'thave anyone that I can ask.
And is this my new normal Like?
Is this, what is this?
(06:55):
What even is this?
You know, and I've seen familiesgo through that in the ICU, you
know, preparing for the deathof a loved one, and we don't
have the resources or thecapability.
We try as much as we can toprovide space for them and
support them and be therapeutic.
You know in that space withthem, but we're applying too
(07:16):
many technical and like didacticthings.
We're assessing and medicaljargon is flying around them and
you know we're givingmedications and there isn't
anything therapeutic about thatenvironment whatsoever,
regardless of our intent.
And I think what do you thinkare the biggest misconceptions
that you run into about thiskind of work, like from either
(07:40):
healthcare providers or becausea lot of nurses aren't going to
know.
A lot of nurses don't going toknow.
A lot of nurses don't even knowwhat it is Right.
And I've run into nurses thatdon't understand the difference
between palliative care, hospicecare.
Yeah, I mean, if they have noexposure to it, they don't even
know that it's out there.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, I think just knowing the scope of care is
where a lot of misconceptioncomes from.
Coming into a hospital settingas a doula and I hear this a lot
from our birth doulas in acommunity locally that I'm a
(08:19):
part of that's full of birth,postpartum and death doulas.
That's full of birth,postpartum and death doulas
because we do partner with oneof the local hospitals to be
able to go in and be really apart of the care team.
It's fantastic that's amazing,but it's brought a lot of that
knowledge and understanding ofwhat doulas are and what do we
(08:39):
do, because our scope of care isnot anywhere near where a nurse
is.
We are there to educate,advocate for the birthing person
, if they need that, and supportand be there as space holders
(09:06):
when the nurse is coming in.
They have a job to do and thatis not our job, you know.
So I think a lot of times themisconception is that there's
more overlap than there is Okayand and I think that's the
biggest thing to to understandis that like there's not like
and you know we're, they werethere for the birthing person A
scope of nursing is not anywherenear our scope, which is really
interesting because we bothwork in that care space.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Right, I think you fill a need though that we're
not able to get to like like we,we can attempt to.
But you know, if we had deathdoulas in the ICU, what, what a
transformative experience thatwould be for the family.
Like I can only wish that wehad that to offer them, because
(09:52):
that aspect of things the spacethat you're holding, the care
you're providing, the education,the nurturing, the
communication we can do bits ofthat while we are completing,
you know, like the scope of ourpractice and our job.
But it doesn't that that thatgaping hole of need that the
family needs to to make thatexperience not so traumatic for
(10:13):
them, is exactly the positionthat you fill and I wish that.
I'm super excited that it ismore recognized in labor and
delivery, like in maternal childside.
But I wish that we had that inin other aspects.
I wish that you guys could bein postpartum.
I wish you guys could be in theICU, even in the ER, that, like
(10:34):
if we had somebody.
I get that it's not a longerprocess, you know it might be a
more immediate process, butstill the experience that you
have in helping familiesnavigate that or approach that
understanding is, is somethingthat sometimes we can't, we
don't have time.
It sounds awful to say that, ohmy gosh, well, and we just
(10:56):
don't have, we don't have thetime to do it the time and and
the, the, the people.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
A lot of times, nursing is understaffed and so
you are needing to care for somany people in such a short
amount of time that it is.
You know, every nurse that I'veever come in contact with has
such a compassionate heart andyou put all of that into your
(11:25):
job.
But when you have to go fromyou know one person to the next,
to the next, it becomes reallyhard to feel like you're giving
each person the care and thefocus and the compassion that
you want to give each person.
Yes, and I feel like that'salmost part of the problem,
(11:46):
because you want to be there andyou want to do that and the
system isn't set up for it.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
That's a huge struggle.
There are a lot of nurses thatcarry guilt and feel like they
can't take care of theirpatients adequately because of
the staffing because of the waythat you know the healthcare
system is set up.
That's a huge thing and we'renot.
We are educated, like innursing theory.
We are educated academically interms of, like the application
(12:14):
of nursing theory and what itmeans to be therapeutic.
And we do have psychiatriceducation and psychology.
We're taught these subjects inour degrees but we don't have
any hands-on training in thatspace because there's no room
for that in our job descriptionat the bedside.
(12:35):
Now, I can't speak for hospicenurses, I can't speak for home
health nurses.
I can't speak for home healthnurses.
I've I've only worked incritical care and emergency
medicine and a little bit inadolescent psychiatry.
So I'm sure that those fieldsare structured differently and,
you know, do do work differently.
(12:56):
In that regard, I think one ofthe things that and I just
realized that I wanted to findout both answers but the
question that I asked you wasnot misconceptions about what
you do, but I wanted to find outwhat are the most common
misconceptions you run into thatpeople have about death or
about, like, the postpartumperiod, like the transitions
(13:18):
themselves?
Speaker 2 (13:21):
like the postpartum period like the transitions
themselves.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I think a lot of it is lack of communication between
people.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
We have a lot of views about the postpartum
period.
Yes, you should be in thisbubble of joy and love your baby
and everything is going to justhappen and you're going to
figure it out.
But the reality is you feellike an island in turbulent seas
(13:46):
with no boat.
And if you do have a boat, it'sa canoe and you have half a
paddle and it's really difficult.
And opening the conversationcan clear up a lot of that, and
just getting moms together andmoms that have friends or other
(14:09):
people in their sphere that aregoing through the same thing at
the same time are the only oneswho are talking about it.
I was having a conversationrecently and one of my friends
was like well, why don't, whydoesn't anybody tell you that?
And I was thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I've said that so many times as a new mother and I
think what?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
happens is is that when you're in it, you're in it?
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
And when you get past that phase you kind of have
that mom brain moment of justclouding past it and then you
forget you, you're, you makeyourself forget because it was
not an easy or fun time to be inCorrect and then real quick,
just in the death side again.
Grief is something taboo totalk about.
People find it veryuncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yes, they are.
They can't sit in thatemotional uncomfortableness.
Yes, to even talk about theprocess or acknowledge it, or
and I think new moms are likethat too we don't want to say
anything cause we don't lookstupid.
Yeah, you know or ungrateful, orany of that and moms that have
already been through it.
Unless you're actually talkingto a mom going through it, it's
(15:15):
like two ships passing in thenight, like you have the
information but you're notreally sure that somebody in
your sphere is experiencing itand you just don't.
You're you know you're fightingyour battles in the next stage
of the unknown.
These things don't come with amanual, so I got to figure this
out and I think yeah, I mean themiscommunication part of it is
(15:38):
so massive I wonder if it's likethat just here.
Or I wonder, I wonder if that'sa cultural thing.
Like I wonder if it's like thatin other cultures.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I think it depends on the culture, honestly, because
I know there are cultures thatare more comfortable with death
or that have a very supportivecultural understanding of the
postpartum time, and so I thinkthat some of it is culturally
here.
We tend to brush it under therug, right it's not pretty.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I don't want to look at it.
Yes, that makes sense.
Emotions are uncomfortable,right, emotions are vastly
uncomfortable.
On that note, we're going togive you guys a break.
If you are going to head backto the floor, then use this
musical interlude to know whento press pause and come right
back to it when you can.
We wish you the best shift andthe easiest orders and the best
(16:32):
patience and the kindestresidence.
If you are going to be hangingout with us, then use this
moment to refresh your coffee oryour tea.
Enjoy the music for a moment,and when we come back, we're
going to talk with Molly aboutholding space.
This is really applicable tonurses and our experience of
some of these really significanttransformations for our
(16:53):
patients and for ourselves.
But enjoy the music for amoment and we will see you after
the break.
(17:19):
All right, thank you so much.
If you are still hanging outwith us, if you are coming back
to us after your shift or onanother break, we hope that it
has been just going amazing.
So we were talking about,before our break, transitions in
the postpartum space andtransitions that patients and
(17:42):
families have to deal with withdeath what we've been kind of
talking about as a theme in theritual nurse so far is
protecting our own peace, andI'm really interested in the
space that you hold, like howare you able to hold space for
others in these emotionallyintense moments while also
protecting your own energy andwellbeing, because we know
(18:05):
you're a very busy lady.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
I think the biggest thing within those really high
intensity moments is, for me, Ilike grounding out and
maintaining my own sense of self.
I think in those moments weempathize with people going
through really difficult times.
(18:29):
If you are dealing with apostpartum person and you are
also a mother, a lot of thingscan either be triggering or
they're just so relatable thatit's easy to get caught up in
remembering your own experienceswhile hearing theirs, and so
you take that on and it's likeyour body's reliving it right.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yes, the body holds on to those memories and
feelings Exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
So I think in that moment, just maintaining your
own sense of self, remindingyourself in the moment that you
are not going through that it istheir experience and you're
holding space and witnessingthem, is a great way to kind of
distance yourself withoutreleasing the compassion.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
That is the most phenomenal description I think I
have ever heard of therapeuticboundaries.
We throw that word around likea corporate buzzword, but that's
the best description that I'veever heard of it, like as you
were saying it I don't thestupid look on my face, I, and
of course our listeners, can'tsee it, but I was like, oh my
(19:39):
gosh, I can actually visualizewhat you're saying and like
holding that therapeuticboundary is like keeping myself
within my lines, like theoutline of who I am and I don't
know why.
Mentally, this picture justcame to mind of you know, like
an outline of a person on paperbut full of watercolor, and you
(20:02):
have to keep the boundary andyou know your patient has the
same boundary and they havewatercolor and if you don't, the
watercolor starts to meshtogether and it's so
intrinsically hard to separate.
Yes, and I'm like, oh my gosh,as nurses, if we're able to
remind ourselves that we're notexperiencing what they're
experiencing, but we're here tohelp them with it and our
(20:24):
ability to relate can enhanceour empathy and we can maybe
think of what we needed in thatmoment or what would have helped
us in that moment, but we haveto keep ourselves from reliving
that moment Exactly and that isso huge.
Now I know exactly what I needto tell my nursing students next
week.
That's absolutely amazing.
(20:45):
That is the coolest way I thinkI've ever heard therapeutic
boundaries actually explained,because we talk about it all the
time and I don't think we Idon't think we actually explain
it to nurses, but I've neverheard somebody say it like that
before.
That is wild.
That's amazing.
Nurses, a lot of times, thewhole spectrum of experiences
(21:06):
that they have ranges from thehappiest to the absolute worst.
And knowing what you know aboutholding space for people, what
would be like?
What would be like a point ofwisdom that you would give
nurses when it comes tonavigating high and low, like
(21:27):
these swings of, I guess, likeemotional context, or you know
that they're going to deal withwith their patients, cause it's
not, it is swings, it is upsdowns, it's not just all bad or
all good.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Right, I think you know the highs, the good times
definitely help in those periodsof of the really difficult
things.
But especially dealing, like onmy end, with the grief and you
know that kind of we'll call itnegative, it negative emotion,
less desirable.
There is a beauty in that and Ithink being able to recognize
(22:08):
that you being able to be there,holding space for somebody to
be in that place, when so manypeople are not given the just
the okay to open up and be inthat space of grief, it can be a
really beautiful process and,just again, being that witness
to that and like holding thatspace being open for somebody to
(22:32):
be able to break down, becauseprocessing that emotion is where
you don't get that likeemotional constipation.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Right, exactly.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
But hand in hand with that is, again, not not holding
on to that yourself and beingable to appropriately process
your own emotions.
So do you debrief with otherdoulas or I am.
I do have a therapist, but II'm actually in um, a community
(23:03):
of doulas in town, well,statewide, and it does offer
that community of support forfor all of us I think you talked
about this in one of yourprevious episodes of that that
trauma bonding, and that issomething that is really kind of
dangerous territory.
But within this community,having a space where you're like
(23:25):
, hey, I just had a reallydifficult overnight.
Or hey, I'm coming off a reallydifficult birth, can somebody
just talk to me about this?
Or like, hey, I'm dealing withthis better than the other, and
being able to be then held bysomebody else in that space,
somebody who understands thatit's really hard.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Who can?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
relate and be like yeah, that sounds really
terrible.
You know, have you gotten a nap, have you?
You know, maybe go home andsleep and we'll talk after take
a shower.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
You're validating and providing structure for
somebody that may not be able tonavigate that at the moment,
and that's that is verydifferent.
Than you know, trauma bondingdoesn't have a healing or a
purposeful intent.
Exactly, it is a emotionalsoothing, if you will.
It is a maladaptive way offorming a connection, but it is
(24:15):
not done with the intent.
It's not actually doneconsciously.
Usually it's not done with theintent of it being a positive,
like an engagement.
A positive engagement and Idon't mean positive as in like
all happy cheery, I just mean asin providing engagement that
helps a person move forward andthrough you know, whatever it is
(24:36):
that they're dealing with.
So providing structure forsomeone while also validating
what they're experiencing givesthem something, I think, to hold
on to while they're expressingthe emotions outward and not
shoving them in boxes, becausewe compartmentalize things like
it's like we do it like we'rebreathing and we don't ever
unpack them and then when theboxes explode, we can't function
(25:00):
anymore.
Right?
And a lot of nurses that itreally doesn't matter what field
you're in are.
We face these highs and lowsall the time, and I think in
nursing there's a huge stigma ofnot being able to talk about it
, because in nursing, if youcan't handle something or you're
(25:21):
emotionally affected, you know,deeply affected by something.
The stigma false stigma is thatit somehow makes you weak or
unable to be the structure foryour patients or be reliable or,
you know, be a strong link inthe chain, whatever.
For the team it's absolute BS.
(25:43):
And I think nurses need tocreate more communities like the
ones that you're describing,because they need to be able to
hold space and not in a, in adebrief.
In a hospital setting, nobodyever actually talks honestly
about their personal emotionsand feelings.
We'll cover what happened,we'll cover the policies,
procedures, all that other stuff.
Um, because they are afraid ofrepercussions or afraid of a
(26:06):
stigma or afraid of negativity,and I think that's a really
important component to have likefor nurses to start creating.
I'm sure that there are nursingcommunities out there that do
that, but with the actual intentof it being positive, engaged,
like structural support in a way.
You know, I think that's reallyincredible.
That's a, that's a unique thing.
(26:28):
Maybe that's something thatwe're going to have to start
fostering with the ritual nurse.
Is there anything that reallystands out to you the most in
terms of just the years thatyou've been doing this?
What's your favorite thingabout it?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
I enjoy working with people and helping people.
Everything I have ever done inmy life has always kind of been
revolved around helping people,and many times families or other
women, mothers, and so it yeah,it's all kind of this space of
helping people heal or be in youknow a better place achieving
(27:07):
their goals or yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
It's all about the people like nurturing, I think
for you is your, it's like youressence, it's like your vibe.
I know our listeners aren'tsitting next to Molly and can't
tell this, but it just you aresomebody, who you're.
You're one of the few peoplethat I've seen whose job and the
point of their job is actuallyit matches, actually your
(27:33):
essence, like matches you.
Like it, just like I wish people.
I wish our listeners could sitnext to you.
They would get it, and I thinkthat's just wonderful.
Yeah, we're here, like I likehugs.
Yes, yes, and the funny thing isis people gravitate towards
hugging you all the time.
I only hug people that I like alot, and most other people I'm
(27:54):
kind of like a cat and liketouch me, but from over there
and not actually touching me.
Thanks, but I am always up forhugs from Molly.
Now I think we're going tosegue on that note to our
favorite section of the podcastAt least it's one of my fun ones
which is coffee crystals anddivination.
And I am on whole 30 this weekpeople.
(28:17):
So my access to my favoritecoffees and those kinds of
things have been highly limited.
But I do want to say that it'scaused me to get kind of
inventive and really try tothink of ways that I can have my
favorite thing, and it's kindof a soothing.
I don't drink coffee because Ineed it, I, it's just kind of a
(28:40):
soothing thing but ways torecreate that so that I'm still
meeting my need.
And, honestly, the morefragrant a tea that I've found
or had, it must be somethingabout the combination of the
senses of it being soothing andwarm and olfactory.
Yeah, so my drinks of choicethis week have been like the
most fragrant herbal and fruitteas I can possibly find, and
(29:03):
it's just been filling the space, I guess.
Yeah, no, I haven't had accessto my normal coffee and I've
just been trying to survive it.
Normally I have like a cooldrink or something you know that
I've picked out.
That is my favorite for theweek and I guess the fruit and
herbal teas are kind of doing it.
If you guys have ever been on awhole 30, tell me in either the
(29:25):
comments or the show notes whatyour favorites for whole 30 have
been.
There's usually the go-tos oflike plant milks and then trying
to make that work withoutsweeteners.
It's the sweeteners thing thatgets me.
But let me know, let me knowwhat concoctions you guys have
come up with for your favoritewaters, your favorite drinks.
I'm going to pull an Oraclecard for our divination for this
episode.
I don't know if you've everseen these, but the crystal
(29:47):
portal Oracle is awesome.
It's gorgeous.
Uh, so far they've beenincredibly on point, but these
are super fun.
Do you have a favorite deck?
I have a couple.
Isn't that the case?
I probably have like 30 or 40 ofthem.
I actually brought two.
(30:07):
Did you Then for our tarot partof it, because I draw an oracle
card and then I draw a tarotone.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I mean, my oracle isn't God those are so cute.
I know I crocheted this.
My oracle is not crystals, well, okay, the one that I brought
isn't crystals, mm-hmm, but it'scalled the Spirit Mama's Oracle
, which I love, and actually oneof my friends came up with this
(30:36):
with her Came up with theoracle deck.
Yeah, with her, we're going touse yours.
Her friend, I'm going to stopshopping.
Yeah, the Spirit Mamas,victoria and Tiffany, they're
fantastic.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
I love it.
I'm going to have to look themup and this is their Spirit
Mamas Oracle.
So put it on the, put it onsocials, but how pretty is this.
Look at these.
Wait, I am wondering if I sawthis deck at a sound healing
that Jen did Interesting.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Okay, yeah, well, I'm like I did also bring a tarot,
but it's not as on brand.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
That does not matter, it's okay.
However, draw an oracle card.
Let's see what happens.
I love it.
I love when my guests bringtheir own decks.
Draw an Oracle card, let's seewhat happens.
I love it.
I love when my guests bringtheir own decks.
I mean, I do love using thecrystal one, but I love seeing
the other decks and they'reincredible.
The healing mother, totallyirrelevant.
Love it, wow.
(31:37):
Okay, that is a stunninglybeautiful card.
I'm going to have to takepictures of these, so these the
I will put the deck and if I canfind links to the authors, of
course, um, on our socials sothat you guys can see how
absolutely beautiful this deckis.
Um, and if you want to purchaseit from the artists, uh,
(31:58):
hopefully I'll be able to findthe link and I'll put it on
there.
But what is the meaning of thiscard?
Speaker 2 (32:04):
So, the imagery is is a woman and she is a
representation of the goddessSekhmet, and so she is.
It says she's here to heal yourdivine feminine, because we
live in such a masculine worldwith all of these systems and
(32:25):
constructs.
And so it's about stepping intoyour feminine power, whether
it's your relationship toyourself or other women in your
life.
Allow this balance in yourenergy to be restored and
basically reminding you that thefeminine isn't soft or weak,
not when it comes to segment, no, exactly.
(32:46):
So hold your boundaries, whichwe mentioned and totally
irrelevant, lovingly releasinganything that no longer serves
you.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
That is absolutely perfect.
That is wildly amazing.
Yes, Wildly amazing.
Okay, so which gosh?
That's incredible.
Which tarot deck did you bring?
As she giggles and looks at meI love this.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
This is my horror tarot, because I absolutely love
this deck Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Now quick question.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I'm like maybe it's the morbid fascination.
You said horror right, horror.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Okay, yes, yes, I mean the other.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
You said horror right , horror, okay, yes, yes, I mean
the morbid fascination wouldhave been just fine too.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
I'm like, hey, not a problem, yeah, it's in a very
like oh, okay, I love horror yeshorror themed cloth, love the
cloth um I love this um, butyeah, maybe it's the morbid
fascination in me that just isdrawn to stuff like this and you
know, you know, I think peoplethat deal with death and do so
(33:48):
like with eyes open, likecognitively, fully when did you
go?
Do have a differentrelationship to its concepts, to
its imagery, to discussionsabout it, to all that.
You know, it's not taboo for us.
So I think a lot of nurses canrelate to that heavily, heavily,
(34:09):
heavily.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
So when I work in the financial services industry and
so working within like thedeath community and being
connected with, like protectingyour legacy and helping people
do that and achieve theirfinancial goals, it all is very
interconnected and I absolutelylove having death conversations
with our office manager becausehe gets really uncomfortable oh
(34:35):
no.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
That's amazing.
Yes, so for your deck, thislooks like the Ten of Wands
amazing, yes, so for your deck,this looks like the 10 of wands
and there's a scroll and a we'llcall it a chalice and 10
candles that are lit.
What does your deck have to sayabout this, or what is your
interpretation for your deck forthis?
(34:59):
So I think the 10 of wands hasa lot to do with emotion and the
propensity of especially forthis one, of being in touch with
your emotions and understandingthe meaning that they're
supposed to bring to you and theway that they're arranged in
this card.
It looks exactly likeboundaries around the central
(35:22):
figure, yeah, and they are alllit.
None of them are sideways,they're all upright, providing a
really clear.
It's almost like a circlearound the central figure and
the scroll and the meaning.
So, again, totally irrelevant,but and I say totally relevant,
(35:43):
completely like sarcastically,I'm saying it fully ironically,
not irrelevant but, and I saytotally relevant, um, completely
like sarcastically, I'm sayingit fully ironically, not
unironically, but that's, uh,that's an incredible card.
I love the deck and I love thecoloring of the deck.
Like holy cow, yeah, how longhave you had that deck?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Oh, I don't know, maybe a year, year and a half,
not super long.
So I'm still like there arestill cards in here.
Obviously I've like summedthrough the deck but yeah, there
are cards I've still neverpulled wow, okay, so this one is
really specific in its meaning.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Another thing that the 10 of wands can signify is
overwhelm and like having toomuch in front of you or having
too much on your plate, and therecommendation usually when the
10 of wands comes up in thatcontext is that you need to hold
boundaries and that you need tohold space for yourself, like
you have too many things in yourspace and you need to let go of
(36:42):
what's not working, and inorder to do that, you have to
have adequate boundaries.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Cause again completely not relevant to
anything we talked about today.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
What so ever?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
I want to thank everyone for listening to the
podcast and definitely you'regoing to want to check out next
week's episode.
Just make sure that you areholding space and boundaries for
yourself.
Make sure that you are takingcare of yourself and giving
yourself the space to voice whenyou're not able to do that or
when you're struggling to dothat.
(37:17):
The only way that we can learnhow to take care of ourselves is
by practicing this, andsometimes that requires help and
that is okay.
And if you need to reach out,if you are struggling, you know.
Please make sure that you arereaching out to the resources
around you.
If you're in the U S nine,eight eight is an amazing
resource.
I just want to tell you I loveyour faces and until next time
(37:40):
we'll see you then.
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