259. Healing the Mind-Body Disconnect Through Sacred Practice

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Rochelle Christiane podcast,
formerly the Emotional Masterypodcast.
I'm Rochelle, your host.
I'm here to help you come backto your body, take charge of
your emotions and live life onyour terms.
This podcast is a space for raw, real conversations about what
it means to trust yourself, leaninto your power and create a
life that feels aligned andalive.

(00:24):
We'll explore human design,astrology and other tools to
help you understand your uniqueenergy.
More importantly, though, we'regoing to talk about what it
means to actually live andembody these aspects.
So each week, I'm going toshare stories, lessons, guidance
to help you navigate life'schallenges and really own your
magic.
So if you're ready to step up,take control and show up as the

(00:46):
most authentic version of you,let's begin.
Welcome back to this week'sepisode on the podcast.
This week, I have KeriHummingbird on the podcast, and
Keri was back on the podcast in.
I believe it was 2020 or 2021,really, when I started, it must
have been 2021.
Then it was really when Istarted integrating guest

(01:09):
episodes on the podcast, and itwas just so interesting to see
how our journeys have evolvedwhere we're at currently.
The conversation that we endedup on was a lot around
embodiment, consciousness.
We talk about the gene keys.
Carrie integrates the gene keysin her practices and it's
really so beautiful.
It's beautiful the way that shespeaks about embodiment and

(01:33):
just reflections and mirrors andlike the gene keys and all the
things.
So I'm really excited for youto listen to this podcast.
I've been doing meditations,probably twice a day for about a
month now and really justworking on mental, emotional
balance, you know, balancing mymind and my emotions and my body

(01:55):
, and really embodying thispractice and not just
intellectualizing, which is partof my core pillar of my
coaching and programs andeverything like that.
And so this morning I woke upand I was a little bit tired and
in my head I was like, okay,I'm just, I can skip my morning
meditation this morning.
And I was like, no, I've beenso good about meditating every

(02:16):
single morning and every singlenight, sometimes midday as well,
and so I did my meditation andI woke up and just like, the
universe will always give youmessages if you're open to
receiving it and if you'relooking for it.
I, after I journaled and dideverything and I hopped on and a
friend had actually sent methis testimonial I guess the Joe
Dispenza on his YouTube of thiswoman who cured, you know, her

(02:39):
cancer, and she was talkingabout doing the meditations.
But she said over and over andmy friend had highlighted, I
guess, the fact that so manytimes during this testimonial
this woman said I kept doing themeditations twice a day, I kept
doing the meditations everysingle day, I kept doing it and
this was all you know.

(03:00):
The meditations really startedafter reading Becoming
Supernatural, Like I hadmeditated before and I had kind
of like dipped in and out of itand I had just gotten to a point
where I was like I'm just allin at this point, Like why not?
And so it was interesting justthe timing of that.
And again, just like kind ofhighlighting and double, like
zooming in on the fact that shewas saying I did my meditations

(03:22):
every day, twice a day.
And then Joe was talkingafterwards.
He was like he again reiteratedthat of like her doing her
meditations.
He's like, and then you movefrom fear to neutrality and then
neutrality to then this reallyexpanded elevated emotion of
love.
And I've been finding myselfkind of in that place of
neutrality where I'm like, okay,I have moments of elevated
emotions, but most of the timeduring these meditations now,

(03:45):
because it's kind of becomeroutine and I know the
meditations.
Maybe I need to switch it upand that's fine.
But I am finding more a placeof neutrality and I also want to
just honor that, because whenyou're used to extremely
elevated emotions and probablymore low frequency elevated
emotions, neutrality is actuallyreally beautiful place to be at

(04:06):
.
And what I've noticed over thelast month there hasn't been any
super dramatic like oh my gosh,my world has turned upside down
kind of change, but thatneutrality is amazing.
Actually, my mental health.
I feel so much better in mymind and in my body.
I'm not feeling anxious inplaces where I used to have felt
anxious.

(04:26):
I'm able to like slow down alittle bit.
As an MG, my energy moves soquickly but I'm able to sort of
slow down a little bit.
I'm able to really reflect andkind of take that pause in the
moment.
Like yesterday or the daybefore yesterday I had a moment
where I noticed a pattern comingup and I was able to really
witness it and be like okay,this feels really familiar and

(04:46):
it feels like everything I'm airquoting everything in the
moment.
Like it felt like the thingthat I needed to do, because I
was like, oh, my mind was makingall these reasons of like, oh,
you know whatever it was, and Iwas able to witness that and be
like, huh, I know this feeling,I know this pattern.
I have repeated this many timesand this is me being dismissive
, this is me avoiding, this isme not taking responsibility and
the act of catching that I waslike, okay, what I'm going to do

(05:08):
.
Instead, I'm sitting here forjust a minute and taking it in
and instead I'm going to behonest.
I'm going to be clear andhonest with this person and you
know it's a journey.
I'm not perfect.
There are still certain areas ofmy life where I know that I
need to do some work and embodymore of that, but it's allowed
me to slow down and sort of justcome in and be like, okay, what

(05:31):
would my higher self do?
Because the thing is, we haveall of these looping narratives
from childhood.
Right, Whatever it is right.
I made a reel today or a videotalking about it.
And, essentially, if you weretold that you're bad, and
essentially, if you were toldthat you're bad with money, if
you were told that you're tooquiet, if you were told that
you're too loud, if you weretold that you'll never achieve

(05:52):
XYZ, like when you're told thatover and over and over again,
right, you're going to believe.
It becomes a subconscious belief, especially when we're looking
at that zero to seven age range.
And so then what happens is youhave the dream that you desire,
right?
You have the manifestation, youhave the.
You can tap into your higherself, Like I know, like my
highest version of self.

(06:12):
She's on stage and she'sconfident and she's curious and
like all these beautifulqualities, and that's very
different than the narrative Itook on to believe who I was
right.
And so what happens is we havethis limiting perception of self
, because your perception ofyourself is everything, but we
have this perception of ourselfand then the version of ourself

(06:35):
that we want to call in, thatwe're stepping into that
timeline that we're calling in.
There is a disconnect and weself-sabotage, and we often
self-sabotage in sneaky ways,because our body tells the story
right.
Our body holds on to thenarrative, Our body holds on to
the, whatever the limitingbelief is.
And so we have this momentwhere we want to call in this,

(06:56):
let's say, an opportunity comesthat that higher version of self
has been calling in.
We can sort of self-sabotage it.
So creating awareness, beingslow and in little ways like I
was taking a walk today.
Normally when I walk outside,like if I pass anybody, I kind
of put my head down or I look atmy phone, I just kind of like
avoid it.
But I always ask myself when Isee someone coming at a distance
and my initial reaction is toput my head down, then I, now I

(07:18):
stop, I'm like huh, what wouldthe highest expression of me do?
She would hold her head up highand she would just smile and
wave like right.
And so now that's what I do.
I just take a deep breath, Itake a breath in and then I just
smile, Right, and it's fine.
And but it's just like it's inthese little micro moments.
But we have to create theawareness of the limiting

(07:38):
pattern and we have to havethese little ways.
So for me, this morning andnight, meditation, even though
I'm in a neutral space, eventhough it's kind of like on
autopilot at this point, the actof coming into myself for 40
plus minutes a day just comingin with myself and Carrie talks
about meditation as well and theimportance of it that is so

(08:00):
powerful.
It's keeping a promise withmyself, it's honoring myself and
my boundaries and how importantthese two times of the day are
for me and my mental health.
And then checking in, I do alittle journaling practice at
night, like what aligned actiondid I take?
Where did I lose myself and mythoughts?
What can I do better tomorrow?
All these little practices.
Then in the morning, after Ijournal, I take two minutes I

(08:23):
created in the book BecomingSupernatural.
He has this sort of like visionexercise.
I don't know exactly what it'scalled, but you write down on
one side the manifestations thatyou're calling in and then on
the other side you write downthe elevated emotion that you
would feel.
So for me it's like working formyself, freedom to travel,
financial independence, likethose things.
And then on the other side it'slike what would this feel?

(08:45):
I would feel free, I would feelpeace, I would feel joy, I
would feel love, Right.
And then I take two minutes andI just like sit with it.
I look at this paper and I lookat all those emotions and I
breathe into my heart until Ifeel like the love or the
excitement or the gratitude,Right, and I just sit with it
for as long as I can withhold,for as long as I can sustain
that elevated motion and then Imove on with my day.
But it's in these little micromoments that we really can make

(09:07):
that shift and retrain our brainBecause, again, we can't go
from believing that I'm bad withmoney to believing that I am
abundantly I'm so wealthy.
It's, it's beyond belief, right, Like there's a disconnect
there.
We have to like, slowly takethese little steps and it's like
, don't give up.
It's sort of like you know,when you go to the gym for like
a couple weeks and you don't seeany results and then a lot of

(09:27):
people just stop.
It's the exact same thing, Likeit took you X amount of years
to make these subconsciousbeliefs.
We have to honor that and takethe time to then create new
patterns and new beliefs, but wehave to continue to show up
Repetition and emotion.
That is what creates it.
And so, like I said, I haven'tmanifested anything dramatic in

(09:50):
the last month, but what Inoticed is my mental and
emotional health is so goodright now.
I feel so good in my mind andin my body, and that actually is
everything is huge.
So all that to say this episodeis is really good.
Let me know what you think afteryou listen to it, head over to

(10:11):
instagram at rochellechristianor tiktok at rochellechristian
um holistic human design academy.
I actually moved it startingaugust 12th, and I specifically
chose this date because this isthe venus jupiter conjunction in
cancer and I absolutely lovethat.
So live round starts august12th.
It's going to be date becausethis is the Venus-Jupiter
conjunction in Cancer and Iabsolutely love that.
So live round starts August12th.
It's going to be so good.
This is nine modules.
We have live calls every singleweek, subconscious

(10:32):
reprogramming, understanding ourdesign, the gene keys, all the
things to really embody and comeinto yourself and just do that
nervous system work so that wecan begin to reprogram and
repattern ourselves anddecondition right and remember
who we are.
Your Sacred Unraveling is amembership space for continued
education if you have joined theprograms or if you just want to

(10:53):
jump in and join thismembership where we're talking
about human design.
We're currently going throughthe gene keys, talking about
being heart open and what thatmeans.
We're going through the Venussequence with Leo season,
astrologically based humandesign.
Every link you need is downbelow, so enjoy the show.
Today I have Carrie Hummingbirdwho is actually on.
We were just talking about it.
We were we.

(11:13):
I had you on the podcast in2020.
We think it was.
It was.
It's been a while.
I think you were one of thefirst like year of guest
interviews that I had on here,so it's it's so nice to have you
back on to talk about, I mean,different things but the same
things, because I think this isstill an extension of all the

(11:34):
energetics that was happeningback then.
So it'll be really interestingto listen back to that first one
and just see the shifts thatwe've had and where we've come.
But I'll start with justletting you introduce yourself
and refresh the audience.
If you know, if if they don'tfollow you, if they don't know
who you are, of course they cango back and listen to the first
one.
But we'll start there and thenwe'll dive in.

(11:54):
Awesome.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Well, I'm Carrie Hummingbird, hello everyone.
I'm a, I am a messenger, I'm amother, I'm a mentor and I'm a
medicine woman, and so lots ofMs.
I like alliteration and I'vewritten a number of
international bestselling books,starting with the Second Wave.
We probably talked about theSecond Wave transcending the

(12:17):
human drama.
That was around 2020.
Around 2020.
And then, after that, was Loveis Fear, healing the Mother
Wound, which was a two-yearjourney of healing my own mother
wound and healing myrelationship with my mom.
And then it was Inner Medicine.
So Inner Medicine is my latestbook, inner Medicine, becoming
One with Mother Earth for theSurvival of Humanity, and it

(12:42):
sounds like a really big titleand it's really preciously true
about the spiritual journey thatI've experienced and that I've
witnessed through my clients andmy communities that I engage in
, and so I'm really excited totalk to you today about that
journey.
But yeah, I didn't start offthis way, you guys.
I was in high tech for 20 years.

(13:03):
I was a technical communicator,I worked in Silicon Valley, I
was a really well-paidconsultant.
I also led open studio, so I'man artist, I love art.
So there's, you know thingsabout me like that.
And then in 2012, was my time oflike, wait a second, something
else is starting to happen andfor me and a, a whole other

(13:24):
chapter is opening up and I gotto follow that thing and I have
no idea what's going to happenand it's like if I don't do it
I'm probably just going to die.
So I have to go do it.
So I left my marriage.
I walked out of that.
I walked out of psychotherapy,which I had been doing for 20
years weekly trying to fixmyself.
I eventually stopped taking thenot feeling pills that they had

(13:48):
been giving me for my diagnoses.
I rewired myself from thatdiagnosis into like there was
really actually never anythingwrong with me, I just was ahead
of the curve and yeah.
So all these years later andthe journey later, I am now much

(14:08):
more conscious of what it meansto be human and divine and on a
planet that we are totallyinterconnected with everything
and the indigenous wisdom thathas been thankfully kept alive
through this time of explorationof the mind.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yeah, I have so much to say about you know that I
mean it.
Just, I resonate a lot in yourstory and I feel like for me,
actually this year I in earlyJanuary, so not that far ago or
not that long ago I quit my nineto five to go.
It's like I feel souncomfortable in this space,
like I just it was somethingthat I couldn't ignore.
I was, it was exhausting me.

(14:49):
I was coming home crying morethan often, I couldn't really be
present for my kids.
Like the shift, just that alone.
Like the shift of like now Iget excited to hang out with my
kids, whereas like for a while Ijust felt so drained that I was
more frustrated than anythingelse, you know, and like that in
itself was like worth it all.
But like I know that part, itfeels like to me that was my
point of like something has tochange.

(15:10):
Like this is like a big it's.
It just feels really big Idon't know how else to describe
it Right and like coming back toall of this and an opportunity,
like a new chapter and you know.
But the other thing is like nowthat I've been home, like I've
been really productive.
But I also feel like I justnoticed today, like my energy
feels a little funny and I'mlike you know, I haven't been
outside Like literally.

(15:32):
It's talking about likeconnecting with mother nature,
right, like I and I'm a Taurussun too, so that's like so
important, but like I haven'tbeen outside that much and so I
was just reflecting on that andthis is like such a beautiful
topic too.
That's definitely reminding meI need to get out and put my
feet on the soil, because that'sliterally like the most healing
thing.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, when we reconnect with our mother nature
, we reconnect with our bodiesand you know, part of the the
pathway that I traversed on myown journey, I think a lot of
people are experiencing rightnow is that first we start off
kind of filled up and kind ofgunked up with the human

(16:11):
experience and the emotions andwe're overwhelmed and we don't
know what to do with it and ourmind is chattering away like a
Siri gone rogue and we're likethis human experience thing is
so intense, you know, and so wejust go, this has got to stop
somehow, and we start lookingfor a solution for how to make
the madness stop.

(16:31):
And so then we find some pathof spirituality and we go, oh
okay, there's relief from thehuman experience.
I can transcend this sucker andnot feel it, and I like find my
soul and connect with my higherpower and get rid of these
feelings or whatever you know isgoing on, and like clean myself

(16:54):
out, and then I'll be good.
I can just be neutral,completely neutral, and
unattached to this humanexperience, and I can even do
that so much that I just I don'teven care about, I don't even
think I'm connected to anythinglike government or, you know the
earth or anything.

(17:15):
I'm just like I'm a freefloating spirit and eventually I
won't be here anymore, so I'lljust like bide my time and try
to be as happy as I can duringit.
So there's like that stage anda lot of people are in that
stage right now and I was inthat stage too, right.
So I used to tell people reallyinsensitive things, like it's
just part of the divine plan, sojust get over it.

(17:35):
You know, you'll just have tobide your time.
Don't be so attached, don't beso emotional, don't be so
connected to everything that'sgoing on.
Just ignore it, go about yourlife" Right?
I used to say things like thatto people when I was first on my
path and I didn't realize howinsensitive that was until I
started getting embodied.

(17:55):
And when I started gettingembodied truly embodied that
meant that my soul was no longerresisting being on this planet
as a human being.
Because, let's just remember,we've had many lifetimes on this
planet with many differentdemises and many different

(18:19):
experiences, many differenttraumas, many different
ancestral experiences that wealso inherit inside this
physical vessel, and all of it'sstored in here for us to
uncover, reveal and heal, anduntil we get into every nook and
cranny of this vessel and feeland heal it all.
We are sort of floating aroundon the throat chakra upwards.

(18:43):
We are sort of floating aroundon the throat chakra upwards.
We're not actually experiencingbeing human, so it takes a
little coaxing to get yourselfinto a space of like all right,
I'm gonna slip myself downinside this vessel like a glove
and put the whole thing on.
I'm gonna feel everything.

(19:04):
I'm going to experience mytraumas from my past lives, you
know.
And so my first, my first reallybig experience reintegration of
that was a life on the Trail ofTears, where I was a medicine
person and I was there to be aguide for my people, and I
became so overwhelmed by thepain of that experience of

(19:31):
watching my people lose theirentire way of life, walk a
trudge across snow, you know, inthe ice cold of winter, with
little babies and elderly, likeliterally no care for people.
It was such a shock to mysystem that I ended up thinking

(19:53):
that the better course of action, the way I could support people
, would be to leave my body andsupport people etherically, and
that's a choice I tried on, youknow, as a leader at that time,
and so I took my own life sothat I could be present in a
spiritual sense and I could takea lot of suffering with me
through the death portal.
So it wasn't a bad choice.

(20:15):
It was a choice.
But now that I'm back in thisincarnation, I had to feel all
the things that I refused tofeel the last time around.
So I spent literally years ingrief, years in grief in healing
sessions and once that woke upinside me, I had to feel it to

(20:39):
heal it.
I got so many healings.
I got so many past liferegressions.
I mean so many journals backand forth with that self of me
from before healing that wound.
And I will say I'm most of theway I can talk about it without
bursting into tears.
But there's still some prettydeep grief inside there.
Especially seeing what's goingon today and the further attack

(21:02):
of Native American peopletriggers all of that inside of
me again.
So I think that what we have torealize is that there's no
bypassing the human experience.
We've got to feel it to heal it.
And I know I just said a lotand I want to come back to you

(21:24):
and give you a chance to respond, but before I do, there's one
more thing on my mind.
Know, I just said a lot and Iwant to come back to you and
give you a chance to respond,but before I do, there's one
more thing on my mind that Ijust want to say is that when we
open up big spiritual energy,let's say we learn how to play
with our yoni and get a lot ofenergy going and it feels really
good, right, and then we do alot of spiritual manifesting and
then we've got an altar, we'vegot all these like deities and

(21:47):
other energies that we're noteven sure what they are on that
altar and we're opening up allthis big orgasmic energy and but
we're still only operating fromthe throat up, we're not
actually home.
So it's like leaving your housewith all the doors open for
anybody, any energies,disembodied energies to come on
inside and masquerade, as youand I also had that happen.

(22:12):
Okay, because when my firstspiritual awakening started by
exploring my yoni and figuringout I could have these really
big experiences, but I had nospiritual discipline, no
protection, no understanding ofmyself, no guide, no mentor that
was grounded to support me, andwhat happened was I started
taking extremely heart-closed,cold, selfish actions that hurt

(22:41):
my family deeply, and I knew Iwas doing it and I couldn't stop
myself.
It was like an addiction or likea compulsion.
So I want to say, if anyone'shaving that experience right now
of like you feel like you'renot in control of yourself, or
you feel like there's somethingmoving through you that's not

(23:03):
you or that's causing you to bea person you didn't think you
were, that could be part ofwhat's going on.
Because until we're fully homeinside of our vessels, until
we've really gone through allthe layers of the egoic
protection system to support, totake command of this vessel as

(23:24):
a soul, we, you know, we have tobe mindful that there's
disembodied energies that wouldreally love to come in and take
you over, because they didn'tfinish whatever it was they
wanted to do on earth.
So you know there's a lot todump into this space, but it's I
feel like it's really importantwith, especially with what I
see going on in the collective.

(23:44):
I feel like it's a lot to dumpinto this space, but it's I feel
like it's really important with, especially with what I see
going on in the collective.
I feel like it's reallyimportant to get these messages
out.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah, so many questions.
First, how did you like thisfeels like more than a memory
that you had.
It feels like you were likewithin, like carrying this past
life with you.
How did you experience thatLike?
Was it something that you'vealways like kind of held within
you?
Or how did you come to likewitness this life or remember

(24:13):
this life and really do the workfrom that life?

Speaker 2 (24:16):
That's a really good question.
So from the time I was a littlekid, when I was a little kid,
they used to have thiscommercial on TV with the Native
American crying because peoplewere littering.
You know, I don't know if yousaw that commercial, but when I
saw that it really touched me,like it spoke to my heart in a
way that like I would startcrying.

(24:36):
And I remember as a little kidtelling my mom you know, I went
to go to the powwow and my mom'slike why, what is going on with
you?
And it was later in my mom, inour life, when my mom started
doing the genealogy, the familygenealogy, that she could not.
There was a family lore that wewere Cherokee and we had an

(24:57):
ancestor that was full-bloodedCherokee.
That was my grandfather'smother, and we could not prove
it because she had covered it up, because during that time she
could pass for white and sheknew that the safer thing to do
would be to write W on hercensus column, pass for white
and then ensure that our lineagewent on.

(25:18):
Because you know the Cherokeeand indigenous people, they play
the long game, you know, theyknow their souls in a body, they
know they're part of anancestral line and they know, if
they can just keep theancestral memory alive,
eventually there'll be a timeand a space for it to flourish
again.
And so they knew that thiswould be a time period on this
continent where there would be alot of ignorance perpetuated,

(25:42):
and so they just needed to getthrough this long enough for it
to pass to a point where peoplecould become more conscious,
right, and we're at that pointright now, seven generations
after the drill of tears.
So what happened was I knew allthat and that was happening in
the background, and it wasalways frustrating to me that we
couldn't find the proof of that.

(26:02):
But I started my shamanic path.
I got led to a shamanic teacherafter I left my former life
2012.
And I started studying withthat teacher.
And then I started with anotherteacher, because it was like
this is home, like this makessense, why didn't I have this?
From the time I was like inthird grade, you know, like I
don't understand why I didn'tknow this.
And so, as I studied that, as Istarted moving that direction

(26:25):
and I started studying with theFour Winds Light Body School,
what started happening for mewas I know that these indigenous
lineages from Peru aresupporting me, but I also know I
have indigenous in my ownancestry and so I want to tap
into that.
I want to open that up.
So I took a journey to the SmokyMountains and I went to the

(26:47):
only place that a visitor knowswhere to go, which is what?
Like the visitor center and theyou know, the Native American
replica village and all thesethings.
And I just walked in like, hi,I'm Carrie and I, you know, I
need to find a shaman that canhelp me, you know, to get
reconnected.
And the first time I did thatthey all just looked at me like,
oh Lord, you know, like here'sanother white woman that wants

(27:08):
to get reconnected.
I don't want to deal with this,cause it's.
You know, there's a point ofagitation here.
It's like stop trying to stealour culture, stop trying to be
us.
You know there's a lot going onin that conversation.
So the first time I went theydidn't really help me.

(27:29):
But the next time I went, Iactually got connected with a
shaman.
So he just happened to be there.
He didn't normally work thereanymore.
He just happened to be therethe day that I was there and
when I went, crying and by nowI'm desperate, you know.
By now it's like two years laterand I'm like I have to be
reconnected.
Meet up with this guy and hesays I'll meet you in the
parking lot as soon as I'm donewith my shift, in 15 minutes.
And so I turn around with myboys my boys were with me this

(27:49):
time and I start walking out andall of a sudden, this giant,
softball size energy justthrough the back of my head and
I felt it come in, like somebodythrew a softball at the back of
my head, you know, and I feltthe energy.
I felt it come through my wholebody.
I got instantly dizzy.

(28:10):
I had to sit down.
The trees started breathing,you know, and I was like am I
having an, you know, an emulismor something Like what's going
on?
This is crazy.
And I started my consciousness.
I could feel it spreading andjust starting to expand me, you
know, and I couldn't think.

(28:31):
That was another thing I wasn'table to think.
I was like where's the thoughtsgo?
And these competing aspects ofme are like not knowing what to
do, right?
And when I went out to theparking lot I could barely
function.
It was like I had taken somemedicine and the guy looks at me
and he's like too many thinking, you have too many thinking.
And he didn't say anythingabout the soul retrieval.

(28:55):
But I knew what had happenedbecause I knew it inside of
myself.
The more it sank in, the more itcame in.
I realized that that part of mehad stayed on the Trail of
Tears, had stayed with thepeople and had never actually
been recollected.
So as I collected that part, Ireconnected myself with my

(29:15):
ancestral lineage and so thiswould have been my grandfather.
You know, my grandfather, likeseven generations ago, is the
one I'm now embodied andreconnected with, and it was
also me because I happened to bemy own ancestor, you know.
So this is the stuff where, umit's.
There's not a rational way ofuncovering this information.

(29:37):
It's kind of like you have togo inside of yourself.
You've got to work with some.
I had to work with plantmedicine.
I had to work with meditationand parts work you know, doing
some parts work inside myself totalk to this aspect, get
information.
It took me a while before itwas fully integrated and before

(30:01):
I could just go.
Okay, I remember that life.
I remember the pain, I felt allthe pain and at some point I
was able to let go of a lot ofthat grief and the underlying
anger, really, and the otherfeelings I have, and some of it

(30:23):
is still I'm working on.
You know, when more stuff comesup in the collective, that
hearkens back to those times.
You know similar points of viewthat were expressed that caused
the Trail of Tears.
As I see those things rise upin the collective, another wave
of that comes over me sometimesand so I do my work.
I get a healing session and Iwork through it and bring it

(30:46):
back into peace, resolving itback into peace, not by avoiding
the conflict, but by goingthrough it, feeling it, letting
it saturate me and movingthrough it to a new decision.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Was it that shaman that threw the energy at you?

Speaker 2 (31:02):
yeah, and every so often he calls me, oh yeah, yeah
, and I think he watches me fromafar.
I once asked him if he wantedto be on my show and he's like
you know I don't like being aspotlight, he's not.
You know, this is not aspotlight person, this is a
person that's like.
No, I just do the work ofspirit and you know, I'm really
not interested in being calledout or interviewed or anything

(31:23):
like that.
So that's not how he operates.
He likes to be in the dark, youknow, like in the shadows, kind
of like just doing his thing asa regular human.
Every so often, somebody needshelp in spirit and the ancestors
tell him, and he does it.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
For that first like interaction with him.
Was it more than just that,like blast of energy, or was
that kind of like what he did?
And then you parted ways.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Oh no, for a while he was able to be with me for a
long time on my journey, likeseveral years.
I would get healing sessionsand people would go.
There's like this nativeAmerican guy who was just like
walking around in your field,like in and out and around you,
and he's.
He keeps saying he has his armscrossed and he's like too many
thinking, too many thinking.

(32:08):
I'm like I know exactly whothat is.
Okay, yeah, I know exactly whothat is.
He's staying with me to helpsupport the integration of the
energy until I can remembermyself.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, yeah, that's so powerful, I think, right now
especially, you know, like yousaid, kind of looking around and
seeing what's happening, andhistory has a way of you learn
from it or you repeat it, and Ithink that it's as cheesy or as
cliche or whatever that sayingis.
It's so true and I think thatwe're definitely experiencing a

(32:41):
time like that and the wholeembodiment, whatever that
modality is, I think that getsyou in your body, whatever that
modality is, I think that getsyou in your body, you know, is
it's really actually being in itand it's so easy to.
Um, my daughter recently shewas dealing with some mental
health things and, long storyshort, I agreed to to put her on

(33:03):
antidepressants and I I knowit's not a solution and I keep
thinking this idea of like.
I feel like I'm just detachingher more from herself right In
this process and also she's 14.
I think that there's an amountof her own decision-making right
and this is her path and whatshe's chosen.

(33:29):
And you said something aboutembodiment and that was kind of
where my mind went right, wherethere's so many ways that we are
taken outside of ourselves.
We are, like you said, givendiagnoses of like.
You know, I'll always tell heryou are not, that you're
experiencing that Like.
Don't forget that because it'simportant.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
That actually is really.
I'm so glad you say that to her.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
She kind of rolls her eyes, but like, I continue to
say it because I want her tohear it, yeah, it's a
distinction, and so I'll speakjust a little bit to that.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
How we identify ourselves is extremely important
, and it's part of the journey.
So for a while, I identifiedmyself as a diagnosis.
So for a while, I identifiedmyself as a diagnosis, and what
that did for me is it helped meto avoid responsibility for the
mess that I was creating.
It gave me a way to deflect myown shadow because, look, I

(34:23):
can't help myself, I've got thisdiagnosis.
It's not my fault.
So for a little while also, Itook for 10 years, 12 years, 12
years I took the not feelingpills, and what that did for me
was it helped me to be way lessreactive, thereby create way

(34:45):
less drama.
That then would lead to wayless karma.
That then I would have toreally deal with later, right?
So in a way it did help tostabilize me and I think when I
met you, I was doing, or I hadjust completed, the Skills, not
Pills movement and I was alllike no pills, you know, it's
all just a scam.
And I've since also had a childof mine who we tried everything

(35:08):
spiritually, energetically, youknow everything and really at
the end of the day he neededmedication and that was also his
choice.
Now, will he stay in it forever?
That's his choice?
I hope not.
I feel like it's just a part ofthe journey for some of us that
get really overwhelmed by as theemotion center is opening up

(35:31):
and as the heart is opening up.
You know cause we're opening upheart consciousness and body
consciousness.
That's a lot to open up all atonce, so like it can be
overwhelming, it can be reallyoverwhelming and you can drown
in it, you know.
So if you're find yourselfdrowning in it and you feel in
your higher guidance or whatyour heart or whatever, is

(35:52):
telling you, this would be agood support for now.
Fine, you know, let it be asupport for now, let it be an
experience.
And for me, with my son, I justthought well, he just needs to
understand this, he needs to goand experience it, because the
only way we can learn is byembodying it, by experiencing it
, by feeling it, by trying itout.
That's the only way.

(36:13):
We can't like learn from otherpeople.
We can try, but really, whenwe're learning from other people
, it's only confirming what wealready learned, like they're
just putting into words what wealready experienced and we're
going.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
I experienced that you know, it's really what's
happening.
Yeah, yeah, and I think with her, you know, when I look at like
her charts, astrology and humandesign, like she's just very
open, very sensitive and youknow especially the energetics
of like what's happening rightnow for someone at her age to be
taking it and having no ideawhat that even means or that
it's separate from her oranything.

(36:45):
That was ultimately what had me,you know, agreed to like put
her on it, because I felt likeif she could at least have that
baseline, just like you said, ofnot not being so reactive and
not being like so caught up init.
Right, I do think that, um, I'mfinding a way to say this, but I
do think that there are certainthings where that just taking

(37:05):
the edge off like does serve itspurpose, you know, and so I
hope that for her, she'll havethat baseline and then be able
to build up and do the work onthat and like release that, you
know, and be able to come intoherself and understand, like,
how powerful she actually is andlike how much that emotion,
that, that that feeling sense ofhers is like her superpower.
But it does take.

(37:26):
I mean, I'm 38 and I, you know,for me it's even taken up into
the last few years and I stillget overwhelmed by it sometimes,
where I have to really discernand distinguish, like is this
mine or is this somebody else's,you know, and in the moment
it's really hard to do that.
But being able to like,separate it and be like, oh,
this is, you know, thecollective or this is whatever
it is Right, and let alone being14, like not knowing what's
what, like not knowing what'swhat, yeah, and restraint is a

(37:51):
tool that takes a lot ofpractice and muscle.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
You know it's like working out at the gym.
You know restraint is likedoing your leg lifts, like you
have to be able to practice andbuild that muscle.
And you know, as a teenager,your hormones are going wild.
You know like and especially atthis time on the planet where

(38:17):
you're also at the same time asyour hormones are going wild,
there's mother earth is justwaking us all up and she's
waking up the feeling sense.
Yeah, and sometimes that youknow, sometimes in the
collective or in our lives, weexperience a big brick wall that
kind of smashes us apart sothat we feel a lot of pain,

(38:39):
which is going on a lot rightnow.
But that feeling of the pain isactually what we need so that
we know we're alive and so we'renot just having a mental
construct about what it means tobe alive, but we're having a
full body experience of beingalive.

(38:59):
It's just very different things,especially with the technology
and everybody all inside there,because the technology is
basically just affirming thateverybody is just their mind.
You know, it's like, why do youneed the body?
We just plug you into a machineand then you just live in there
, you know?
I mean, there's actuallysitcoms or whatever about that.
Right now it's like that isjust disconnecting us from the

(39:23):
totality of our humanity.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
Yeah, why do you think that is?

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Because it's painful and people want to avoid pain.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
Yeah, why do you think that is Because it's
painful and people want to avoidpain.
Yeah, yeah, I think, like I meanlike from the bigger picture of
things, like I, you know, evenastrologically, I know, I like
bring astrology into it a lot,but like, right now we're in
this, you, this, the North Nodeis in Pisces, right, so we're
moving towards what could beescapism, right, and then we
have all this Aquarius energygoing on, so it speaks a lot to

(39:59):
using this technology to avoidourselves, right, and I think
that's why it's so importantthis conversation being embodied
in your system, so that you'renot outsourcing it.
And I think that even withwhat's happening you know
politically, or it would be soeasy to like turn on the news or
turn on social media and you'rejust like bombarded with all
this fear-based stuff, right,and so, of course, then we're

(40:20):
going to lean into things thattake us out of that, because it
is painful, right, there is,there is an energy towards it or
that held within it whetherit's from this life or a past
life, right that we all kind oflike have inside.
So then I guess, like thebigger question is, then how do
we come into our body and, like,re-empower ourselves and
connect with this in a way thatdoesn't.

(40:41):
Is it possible to connect withit and not overwhelm ourselves?

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Yeah, so I'll just I'll say it's a journey, it's a
process, right, there's aprocess and a journey.
Everyone is in a slightlydifferent place of the process.
So if I talk about the processin a nutshell, I think it'll
help answer that question.
Is that first we're human andwe're saturated by the
experience and it's like, oh myGod, this is so overwhelming,

(41:07):
right?
So then we go, we seek a remedyto not feel quite so
overwhelmed, whether it'smeditation or breath work or
running or pills or talkingabout it, you know, we find some
way to alleviate the intensityof it, right.
And then we start realizingthrough some kind of spiritual
path that I can, I can, I cancan remove some of this pain.

(41:31):
Like if I do my breath work orI do my running, I'll get
runner's high and then I'll feelbetter.
Or if I take these pills, Iwon't feel so intense.
And eventually that leads to aspiritual path where you start
to learn how to transcend yourhuman experience by recognizing
who you are, eternally right.

(41:52):
So you go into this journeywhere you go, oh, I'm an eternal
soul, I'm like beyond all this,like this is just one lifetime
out of many.
So like the part of me that'stimeless and eternal is never
gonna be harmed.
So then you go into thatrealization, and that sometimes
takes years or decades orlifetimes to get to that

(42:12):
realization.
And then at some point in thatrealization you might try to
bypass your human experience.
But transcendence is anotheregoic trap, because the whole
thing is to avoid pain.
So the courageous thing to do,and actually the thing to do to

(42:35):
really be a divine human, isthat you bring your awareness of
yourself as a timeless beingall the way down into the human
experience and you let that openyou to feel all of it.
That's the part that manyshamanic traditions deal with

(42:58):
people.
Which is why it's called ashadow path is because we look
at our shadows, we look insideof ourselves, we find the
discomfort and we head into themiddle of it.
We go through initiations, andthis is what the Essenes did
with Jesus.
You go through initiations toprovoke the fear, to provoke the

(43:23):
human reaction, to provoke theshadows of your human
consciousness, so that you canwitness them, and then you bring
it all with love and acceptanceback into yourself.
So that's how you embody yourspiritual path, yourself as a
divine human in a human body,and along that journey you

(43:47):
realize that you are one withall of life on the planet.
So if you are in judgment of ahuman, in judgment or pain of
what's going on, probably it'sbecause there's an unhealed part

(44:08):
of you that never got a chancelike I said from my trail of
tears that never got a chance tofeel that because they died
before they could feel it.
And you can only do thetranscendence work inside a body
.
I should say that out loud youcan only do your healing work
inside a body.
You can't do it once you'redisembodied, which is why a lot

(44:29):
of these souls floating aroundthe planet that got stuck in the
bardo, they co-opt otherpeople's vessels to carry out
the things that they wanted tofinish and that may or may not
be alignment with you, but ifyou are not exploring your
shadows, you're leaving allthese little doorways open for
that to happen, open for that tohappen.

(44:56):
So if it's happening, it's notlike there's a problem.
It's more like it's anopportunity to ask yourself how
did I let that in?
What unhealed part of me was aresonant match to that
disembodied spirit that wantedto do this kind of thing that's
causing harm.
Spirit that wanted to do thiskind of thing that's causing
harm, what part of me also, as ashadow part, was also doing

(45:17):
that and never healed from it ornever learned from it.
So it's like you're partneringwith this disembodied spirit for
both of your healing right, andit could be an ancestor, you
know.
So it could be in your DNA too.
So, yeah, it takes a lot ofdiscernment.
That's why restraint is themuscle.
The primary muscle is restraintIf you can restrain yourself

(45:41):
and open yourself at the sametime and let it come through,
let it permeate, let yourselffeel it and breathe and restrain
yourself from action, whileopening to the feeling and then
stopping the storytelling.
With this and as much aspossible with this, you can just

(46:02):
simply feel and then that willeventually, very quickly, you
get good at it.
It'll dissolve itself within amatter of minutes.
So, like, rather than explorewhat it is and whose it is and
all that, because that's anotherbypass to the mind the mind
wants to like, say who?
Remember?

(46:23):
I'm going to tell a story forthis.
My one of my teachers, heatherAshomari, used to say most
people get shot by an arrow andthe arrow's in their heart and
they're like who did this?
Why did they do it?
What's going on.
How come they shot me?
I can't believe they did that.
How dare they?
And meanwhile they're dyingbecause the arrow is still in

(46:44):
their heart.
Like dude, first pull the arrowout.
Like just don't worry about allthat, pull the arrow out, feel
the pain of that, heal yourself.
And then later, if you feellike investigating it, cool.
But like don't, that's a mental, that's another egoic trap to

(47:07):
get you caught up in theinvestigation of it rather than
just the healing of it.
The feeling of it.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
How do we know if we've invited something in
that's not ours?
Is it just, like you said, theinability to control our
responses, or is it somethingmore than that?

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Well, a really good sign is when I was saying that
some little part of your spideysense was going, that's a good
sign.
Is when I was saying that somelittle part of your spidey sense
was going, that's a good sign.
Yeah, you know, like some partof you went, got chills up your
spine, or like you got God bumpsor something happened and you
went oh, kibbe, jeebies, youknow.
Then that's a good sign thatyou've got one of those things.

(47:47):
And then, yeah, shamanichealing will identify that and
resolve it.
Resolving it means figuring outwhat was the matching picture.
You know, like there's Velcrohas two pieces Right, so that
has a sticky part and it has theother part that sticks on it.
So if you heal the piece ofVelcro that was the matching

(48:10):
picture in you, that let thatthing in and you clear it and
you rescind your invitation, itcan slide around your field all
day long and look at you, but itcan't do anything because
you're remembering yoursovereignty and you're now
identifying who you are, who youare.

(48:30):
The problem is most people don'tknow that they have that kind
of entity attachment because alot of times those get in when
you're really young, in yourfamily system and for a long
time they've been sort offarming down family lines.
That's why there's repeatingpatterns of alcoholism or sexual
abuse, molestation, all ofthese things down certain family
lines is because there's actualenergies that and conscious

(48:55):
energies that are kind ofprovoking those patterns in
people.
And so it's the sameconversation as you in a
different light.
You want to say that there's anancestral pattern and you'd
like to clear it.
I'm just adding a little bitmore information that there's an
energetic associated with ittoo, mm hmm, yeah, that makes a
lot of sense.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
Yeah, and I think that's a lot of people that feel
called to this work.
Now, I mean, you talk aboutalcoholism.
That's been in my family, for Imean, it's crazy and I feel
like I'm the one that's.
I go back and forth with it butessentially releasing alcohol
out of my system and that initself has brought up so much,
right Like I was completelysober for a year and, oh my gosh

(49:36):
, it was the most confrontingyear, because it's like you
can't hide from those thingsanymore.
It's like you have to look atit and you have to do the work
and you have to dive into it,because there's nothing to like
take the edge off.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Yeah, there's nothing to take the edge off and also,
like, all the underlying reasonswhy you did it are up in your
face.
See, that's what I'm talkingabout.
Embodiment, that's shadow work.
That's when you make a decisionto pursue a course of action,
you make a choice, and then thatchoice starts to open up
visibility into what needshealing for you to shift that

(50:10):
pattern.
You know, I actually hadsomebody ask me this question
the other day.
It was so interesting.
She said what about you, know,because it was a post about you
can set your dreams.
And she said, well, if I'm justin the now, then like, why do I
need to dream the now?

(50:33):
Then, like, why do I need todream?
And so it's because you're, youknow, you're on maybe the part
of your journey where you'rejust learning how to be present,
right, you're just learning howto go with the flow, see, like,
there's parts to the journey,right?
So you're learning how to be inthe flow and how to stay in the
now and how to interpret thesigns and how to check in with
your body and your intuition on,like, where to go next.
And you're learning how to openall that up, right, and you're

(50:54):
learning how to listen.
So for a while that's likethat's appropriate.
And then at some point, by theway, with that you're kind of
just going along the book offate.
So everybody has a book of fate.
It's written already and youcan float along that book of
fate without changing anythingright, and that's fine, it's a
good life.
There's something wrong withthat life.
But for those of you whosuspect there's something more,

(51:19):
there is.
It's called the book of destiny.
Okay, so the book of destiny isunwritten and the only one that
can write that book is yoursoul.
So the only way that that bookcan be written is if you embody,
which means the personality hasto surrender itself to the soul

(51:45):
, and everything likes to bealive and everything has been
given the gift of aliveness.
So you're asking an aspect ofyou to surrender its aliveness
so that a greater aspect of youcan take control of the vessel

(52:06):
and be more present here onEarth, embodied, which is a huge
sacrifice.
And so there's a process ofhonoring the personality self,
which is the one you start offas truly honoring that
personality self for taking ontypically the roughest parts of

(52:28):
the journey on behalf of thesoul.
That deserves tons of honor andtons of love and compassion and
that takes time, you know.
So there is no rushing thatprocess.
And as you move through thatprocess, the personality part of

(52:51):
you becomes more like a hollowbone.
And the hollow bone is so thatthe multidimensional aspect of
you can flow through youunimpeded and fill you up from
head to toe and move you forward.
And then it's integrating andupgrading.

(53:15):
I'm getting this right now.
It's integrating and upgradingthe personality part of you to
be expressed divinely.
So a lot of people want to gokill their egos, and that is the
wrong approach, I was going tosay not a healthy approach.

(53:36):
You can try it and then seewhat happens, but usually
resistance is encountered.
But there's a whole different,energetic, with honoring the
part of you, honoring the partof you that did not know itself
as divine, that was merely apersonality right which is a

(54:02):
construct created by the soul.
So the creation of the soul isstill alive and it still has
agency and free will and we needto honor it as such, has agency
and free will and we need tohonor it as such At the same
time as reincorporating it,integrating it with the multi
dimensional, timeless self sothat they're merged.

(54:25):
But the creation can't lead theconversation.
I mean it can, but then we seewhat happens.
Giving the creation anopportunity to learn to be
divine I mean it already is,because it was created as a
divine being right, but itdoesn't know itself as that.

(54:46):
So like giving that aspect ofyou an opportunity to witness
itself as divine and sacred,that is the collaboration that
facilitates the book of destinyto be written the collaboration
that facilitates the book ofdestiny to be written.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Beautiful the way that you speak about it how do
you like if you have anypractices because I think the
hardest part is having the mindkind of just like witness or
step aside right, we have got somany narratives that we believe
to be true and you know we getemotional and then we
immediately cling to this likethought process, right, and so
how do you kind of like allowthat to make space for the rest
of it to come through?

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Yeah.
So there's a beautiful teachingfrom the Cairo people.
They have rainbow ponchos.
They came down off the mountainin 2012.
So the Cairo people from theAndes Mountains in Peru, they
had this beautiful teaching.
They're a people of fire, sowhat they do is they turn to the

(55:51):
fire.
The fire has the three flamesof creation.
It has the electric blue lightof truth, the rose-colored light
of compassion and the goldenlight of energy.
It's the three building blocks.
So if you're an artist oryou've ever done any artwork,
you know there's like threebasic colors.

(56:12):
We turn and we give everythingto the fire that we're not sure
about, and then we pull the fireback like right thinking, and
they call it hotam yachai intheir language.
Right thinking hotam yachai.
Pull the flame back to yourheart.
Right love hotam munye.
And then right action hotamyankai.
That's what they do in theirtradition.

(56:34):
So that's what I do.
I always offer everything to thefire, even if I'm really
certain that I know what's whatI do.
I always offer everything tothe fire, even if I'm really
certain that I know what's what.
I remind myself that if I'm inreaction or in anger, or in
trigger, or even if I'm reallyconfident in myself and blissful
and I'm disconnected from myheart.

(56:56):
I see a lot of people right nowlike, yay, we won and we're
victorious, but they're like nothaving any compassion for the
fallout on millions of people.
That also is an issue, rightLike.
That teaches you, shows you,shows me that when I'm like that
, I'm not in touch with my heartand my humanity and my
compassion.

(57:16):
So I will offer all of thatcertainty, everything to the
fire, pull the fire back and sitand listen and feel, really
feel deep in my body.
Meditation is the process ofturning off thought, and we want
to turn off the thought so wecan be in the timeless and hear

(57:40):
it.
But at some point, contemplationis the new game, because what
you want to actually learn to dois to track those things
through your body, because yourbody is a web that holds all of
these pieces of information andpast life, traumas and ancestral
and all the things, and it'slike energetics, and so you want
to learn how to track that weband find the source and then

(58:05):
transmute it, alchemize it, andwhen you do that, the reason I
do it this way and I take somuch time and effort to do all
this is because I've.
I've witnessed firsthand thatwhen I take the time to
transmute things like that, feelit, to heal it, track it down,
where is it located in my body,fill that with love, what color

(58:25):
is it, what texture is it?
You know what shape is it,what's the emotion inside of it,
and I take the time to reallytrack that and then offer it to
the fire and fill it with light,what happens is that my
perception shifts and I have aninsight or a realization that
brings peace to the situationwithin myself and outside of

(58:49):
myself.
So the embodiment piece, yourbody, is your navigation tool
for this life.
It's literally your home forthis incarnation and your
database, your data bank, yourteaching tool, your.
Everything is right here inthis body.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
Yeah, that's been a lot of my work over the last
couple of years, I would say isreally more so just like getting
in tune with what the body issaying when something isn't
aligned.
When it is aligned because it'sso easy, I think again, to let
the mind dictate what we'refeeling or what we're sensing.
But like the ability to, likeyou mentioned contemplation and

(59:37):
like I got full body chills justin that, right it's, it's
coming in and getting curious,right, and just like, and like
you said, that web, likewatching it all happen in your
system and like knowing that,like as you were speaking about
that, right, I can feel like thetruth of it, right.
And then there's other partswhere, you know, I can feel not
a non-truth but just aresistance within myself, right,

(59:57):
and I think it's discerning,even in your own body, what
those things mean and being ableto listen to them.
Because, again, it's sometimeswe're just like everything's
like so fast that we don'treally listen to what the body
is saying, and so I think it'sso powerful.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Yeah, and you mentioned resistance and and
like learning to discern thedifference between a sacred no.
A sacred no is actually quiteneutral.
Resistance is a yes.
It's like, go in there andthere's something there for you.
It's not about being right orwrong or anything.

(01:00:34):
It's just like if you feelresistance, ooh, what is that?
It's like, get curious about it, Go in, feel it, track it.
Where is it in your body?
What color?
You know all the things whatcolor, what shape, what texture
like, what is the emotion?
Where is it?
It could be so fruitful toexplore the resistance and then

(01:00:58):
to discern.
At the end of that process youmight still go, oh, it's a
sacred no, but I needed all ofthis to understand why.
And then you might also getthrough it and go oh, I see why
I didn't want to go on that trip, or I didn't want to sign up
for that class, or I didn't wantto.
Oh, oh, I see.
Now I'm so glad I said yesanyways.

(01:01:20):
See, that's another thing likeis a lot of people think that if
it's aligned, it's justsupposed to feel good.
I have in my own journey and Ican only speak for myself I have
never found that to be true.
Every time that I have leanedinto the discomfort and gone and
done the thing that I was likehemming and hawing and debating
over it was always like, oh, Ineeded that.

(01:01:44):
That was a huge up level.
You know that was massive andif I hadn't have gone I would
have missed out on all that.
And yes, it was uncomfortableand yes, it was painful and yes,
I wanted to avoid it because itwas going to hurt and I was
going to have to do some deepwork.
And I'm so glad I said yes toit.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Yeah, I love that.
You said that.
I have a current example of myown that has to do with that.
That really helped meunderstand like everything that
you just talked about with.
It was specifically arelationship, and this
relationship, this person, likejust kept poking this like pain
part of me and it kept gettingtriggered Right and and it was
like the rest of it was great.
There were so many greataspects of it.

(01:02:24):
But throughout the relationship,when I came back to myself, I
had like that sacred no, like Iknew the relationship itself was
a no, because it was calm.
It was just I knew it.
It wasn't there was nofranticness, there was no
fear-based.
It was just I knew.
But I chose to stay in itbecause exactly that like I
could have run away, but then Iwould have experienced that same

(01:02:44):
pain in another shape, inanother form, in another person,
and it was poking me in a waythat I knew I was safe to do
that work, as uncomfortable asit was with with that person.
And so I think I feel like forme that was like a huge, exactly
what you just said.
Right, that's exactly right,yeah.
I could have walked away from it, but I would.
I wouldn't have learned thelesson had I not stayed in and

(01:03:05):
experienced that poke over, andover and over, you know, until I
knew that I can move through it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
I love that you did that and that you practice the
art of joining.
You know, I studied the genekeys as well G, e, n,
en-e-k-e-y-s, which is connectedwith human design, and we do
that in inner medicine training.
And that is the art of joining,because what you did was you
got through the Eden loop.
He calls it the Eden loop.
It's the triggering back andforth of your mental body with

(01:03:32):
your emotional body, with theother person's mental body and
emotional body, and it createsthis feedback loop.
And it's because we've gotstuck trauma right, and so when
we actually are able to practicejoining, we can move through
that, and then it's cleared forgood, like it'll never happen
with anybody else, because youcleared the energy right, and so
isn't it worth it to dig alittle deeper, you know, and

(01:03:54):
stay a little longer and work itout.
So congratulations.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Yeah, awesome, thanks .
I don't think that he's quitelet go, but I know like, for my
part of it, I feel completely atpeace, you know.
And so, yeah, it, it.
It really was a beautifulexperience, you know, regardless
of what it is now, but yeah,perfect.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
So how do we like if anybody's listening and feeling
really called to this work,cause I think if they're
listening to this podcast or ifthey're here like this is
calling to them.
You know how do we begin to dothis?
How do we begin to come insidein a way that is impactful and I
mean, I don't even know if safeis the right word, but because

(01:04:35):
it's overwhelming, I think rightwhen you're in it or you're
starting it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
Well, it's kind of like you want to pick a good
guide.
I know a lot of people aredoing at-home medicine journeys
and having variable results,right.
So if you've done that, you'rekind of like yeah, I know what
that's like, you can DIYanything right.
I personally have always chosento have mentorship because

(01:05:04):
people who are further down thepath than me have a lot to teach
me and I'm noticed in my ownjourney.
It's been a lightning path whenI work with other people and
for me, in the work that I doand I feel embodiment.
Work is shamanic in nature, Ifeel for myself, I feel like it

(01:05:26):
is.
I feel like because it'sconnecting us with our bodies,
which is connecting us to thetruth of mother nature, is our
teacher, and I feel liketraditions that have held a
really high integrity to be ableto maintain their cultures
through this whole wave thatwe've been in for the last
several hundred years.
Learning from them is powerfuland an unbroken lineage of

(01:05:53):
Mother Earth teachings isextremely potent to be a part of
.
It just helps us to be guidedby people who this is just
secondhand for them, like theyjust know how to embody you as a
soul and human body.
They do it with their kids.
I've seen a Wixotica shamanfrom New Mexico actually bless a

(01:06:17):
little baby, connect its soulto his body and connect him to
the mama earth.
Like they do this with theirpeople, they know how to connect
them in their bodies as a soulat birth, into their bodies
Western people.
We have not had anybody do thatwith us and so we're having to
do it much later in life.

(01:06:40):
And so working with a lineage ora Western teacher because a lot
of times they don't, you know,the language barrier is
difficult.
Working with Western teacherswho work with them to guide you,
you know, because theirlineages support us beyond the
veil, helping you to getconnected in your body, I feel

(01:07:00):
like that's the strongest path.
I've seen many other shamanicgroups pulled together from
Western people who just said Ifeel called to do this and
there's nothing wrong with that.
It's totally great.
And I've noticed that my ownpath of studying with indigenous
, unbroken lineages is extremelypowerful.
Like I have have.
It really has been lightning.

(01:07:22):
I mean, I only woke up like in2012 and here I am, so like.
I think that's good proof in thepudding right that it works so
I I think, um, that's what Irecommend, and I'm sure there's
plenty of other paths, but Ionly know my own path and I know
I witnessed my students and howthey grow through this and
they're not ending up in themental hospital and they're able

(01:07:43):
to.
You know, they're able totraverse um a lot of really
uncomfortable things and comeout the other side shining Like
when they step into their groove.
It's just like damn.
You know, it's really exciting.
Keeps me going yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
Do you feel like it's possible to do this without
plant medicine?
Yeah absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Somebody was.
One of my students was tellingme yesterday.
So I was asking them like whatdo you?
You know, I always have to askpeople like what does this
training give you?
Like what is it actually doingfor you?
I know what it does for me andI witness you, but I don't know
what it's actually, from yourperspective, doing for you
unless you tell me.
And one of my students saidwho's done a lot of plant

(01:08:28):
medicine was like this path isactually like bringing you, like
a medicine ceremony without themedicine, like without
ingesting the medicine.
But the medicine is there.
So there's a way that I'veembodied all these beautiful
plants on my path, likeayahuasca and plenty of other

(01:08:49):
healing plants, right thatbecause I've embodied it and I'm
holding the container and I'mfacilitating that people feel
the medicine, like they actuallysmell the tobacco, like if I
blew tobacco right now theywould smell it on the other side
, but we're like on Zoom, youknow.
So there's a way that if youembody these medicines enough,

(01:09:11):
they sort of reduce the illusionof separation and the illusion
of time and space and bring youyour timeless self forward bit
more.
And that's the whole point ofthe embodiment.
So I I feel like anybody who'sdoing that.

(01:09:31):
You know, as you ask around, isthere some things to say?
Um, that would be a way to doit without plant medicine, like
without ingesting it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
But it is part of the path in some shape or form.

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
Well, the plants have tons of features.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean theplants first.
It starts with the rocks andstones.
So in the Karo tradition fromthe Andes, this is what we do
with people.
We start with them with stonesand, if you notice, most people
start with stones.
They go to the stone shop andthey want crystals, right I mean
.
So it's just like the path.
You start with crystals, youstart with stones, because

(01:10:10):
stones are the heaviest, densestenergy on the planet.
They can handle heavy, hucha,heavy energy and they can help
you transmute it.
And in the Andes mountains theypractice what they call animism
.
Animism is a recognition ofsacred objects, right Like the
stone.
Medicine is just a sacredobject and it's a way to,

(01:10:35):
outside of yourself, have aphysical representation of an
aspect of your psychology.
And so that's what they do.
They put them inside a medicinebundle.
They call a MESA or a MISHA,and so we help people build a
MESA or a MISHA with stonemedicine that represents their
gene keys.
So what that does is the genekeys, is your soul's curriculum.

(01:10:59):
It's like your it's.
This outlines like you'redealing with the shadow of
judgment in this lifetime andopinion and force.
And this is all my chart andyou look at it, you go that's
been my whole life journey sofar when somebody gave me that
map, like 10 years ago, and youput that inside your soul'sOLE,
your SOLE curriculum, and youhave stones that anchor those

(01:11:20):
frequencies inside your mesa,then the stones in the mesa and
the medicine path because it'sthe ancestors can support you in
integrating and embodying andmoving up the ladder, you know,
into some higher frequencies.
You know like embracing theshadow and receiving the gift in
the city.
So it starts with stone medicineand then once you get through

(01:11:43):
stone medicine, I feel, and youclear a lot of that outer layer
of gunk, then the plants cancome in.
They're more refined.
The plants are more refined,they're more they're from around
the whole galaxy, are morerefined they're, they're more
they're from around the wholegalaxy.
You know, this intelligence isconcentrated here on this planet

(01:12:04):
to support us because this isearth school.
So all of those plants haveamazing wisdom to share with us.
And so I started doing dietasdown in the jungle, working with
the ship people.
So I've I've integrated andembodied several plants and
every time I go on one of thosedietas for like a week or 10
days, I'm embodying thismedicine.
That's like teaching me on theinside out these how to move

(01:12:30):
through my human lessons.
It's amazing.
So, yeah, the plants are next.
But if you're not ready forplants, if you're kind of scared
about plants I know a lot ofpeople are like, well, I see
other people doing it, but Idon't really feel safe or I'm
not sure I want to do that Startwith the stones, start with the
crystals.
You know you don't have to godirectly to plants.
As a matter of fact, if you do,it can be really intense, you

(01:12:53):
know.
So sometimes you want to juststart with the plant, with the
stones.
You know stones and crystalsare your friends.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
Yeah, and I think we can still do the work even with
like non-psychedelic plants justlike teas, right, like I mean,
there's so many ways that youcan use it.
I haven't had like a fullexperience.
I've microdosed for a while andthat has, like night and day,
transformed my anxiety.
It's incredible, like I'm but Ihaven't done like any huge

(01:13:21):
trips just because I feel like Ineed to be prepared and I want
it to be right, not just, likeyou said, I don't want to be out
seeking it because I know thatit can be super intense.

Speaker 2 (01:13:34):
And if you've done your work when I say do your
work, you've done your shadowwork, you've embodied to a
degree and you are aware ofyourself and you know how to
navigate the mental tunnels inyour brain, then at that point
you can move into plant medicinewith a good facilitator and get

(01:13:57):
way deeper than where you'vegotten so far.
Like it's kind of like you cango out to the ocean instead of
hanging out by the shore andwhen you do that you reclaim
more of yourself, more of thatmultidimensional part of you
that can embody the plants,facilitate that embodiment.
So it's not required to ingestthem, but you can, because I've

(01:14:22):
found out it's not, you know,just by trial and
experimentation I found out it'stotally not necessary for
others to imbibe it.
The spirit, let's say thespirit of tobacco is now totally
, thoroughly connected with me,because I've done dieta to

(01:14:44):
integrate it with the help ofthe shamans, integrate it into
my body, so that now there'slike a handshake between the
spirit of tobacco and my bodyand the matrix within me of
tobacco.
So when I do a tobacco clearingwith somebody, that's probably
why they smell it, because it'sso embodied and it's the spirit

(01:15:06):
of tobacco and I've embodied ithere I'm helping the person
through their permission andthey're getting that tobacco
clearing from a distance orwhatever, but there is no time
or space.
It's all an illusion.

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
What is the power behind tobacco?
Because I know I've heard of,you know ayahuasca and all these
other different ones.
I haven't necessarily heardlike a ton, other than like
cigarettes, but that's not whatyou're talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
Not the same thing.
No, no, the tobacco is a veryit's.
It's really the first plantthat a medicine person works
with.
It is extremely powerful plantteacher.
It is an energy that protectsus from invasive energies.
It deep cleanses and purifiesour consciousness of heavy,

(01:15:53):
dense energies that don't serveus anymore.
And it's a prayer mechanism.
So it's a vehicle for prayerand for prayer to be spirit.
So a lot of times we'll take,you know, a mapacho.
We'll take a mapacho and wewill sing or say prayers into it

(01:16:18):
.
Then, when we light it with thespirit of fire and then we blow
the medicine, now we're workingwith the spirit of wind to
carry the prayers into theperson's body.
And when we've embodied thismedicine, it's our teacher and
we work with it and we've beeninitiated to work with it that's
important.

(01:16:38):
Initiated to work with it.
That's important.
Initiated to work with it by ashaman.
It's extremely powerful.
It's a good healing tool.

Speaker 1 (01:16:48):
Yeah Well, thank you so much for sharing it.
Honestly, it's so beautiful tohear your story and your
experiences and just the waythat you speak to all of this
work, because I think that it is.
It can be overwhelming, um, butyou just speak to it with just
this beautiful like ease and andum I know it's not easy, but

(01:17:10):
just like um, just sort of anempowering um energy.
So, you know, thank you forsharing that with everyone.
And if there's any sort of likelast message or anything that
you want to share with people,like as they kind of like embark
on this, that you think wouldbe helpful, yeah, that'd be
great.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
I'm folks, I'm still recovering from that really
nasty cough flu thing that wentthrough, so thanks for your
patience.
Yeah, so I teach inner medicinetraining, which is, as I said,
supported by our CARO lineage upin the mountains of the Andes,
also by my teachers, theWeeshottukah and the Shipipo in

(01:17:48):
the jungle.
So we have three lineages thatwe work with, as well as I'm a
student of Toltec teaching, somy teacher's teacher is Don
Miguel Ruiz, so I combine all ofthis together into inner
medicine training, building amaze that we talked about with
the gene keys, and also learninghow to work with the elements

(01:18:08):
and the animal allies, to embodyyourself and to clear the
heaviness right so that you canbe more of your spirit, your
essence.
So that's the main thing we do.
It's 18 months training becauseit takes that long to move
through it without sending youto the mental hospital.
You know, we want everyone tohave like a gentle experience of

(01:18:28):
waking up and, um, embodying.
That's our goal as a gentle,loving experience, uh, softening
your heart and coming intopresence, um, without a whole
lot of dramatic stuff.
That's my goal anyway, withpeople.
So that's what we do.
We take groups to Peru.
We do short little seriesclasses as a taste of what we do

(01:18:50):
as well, and all that's on thewebsite kerryhummingbirdcom.
And if anybody wants to learnabout being a medicine person, I
have a new series, actuallyMedicine Woman, that is on New
Reality TV.
So they have a lot of reallycool spiritual.
You might want to check it out.
Rochelle.
Yeah.
You might want to be on theretoo, but they have a bunch of

(01:19:11):
really awesome high vibrational,high integrity shows over there
on New Reality TV and MedicineWoman.
I walk you through theagreements you'd need to make in
order to become one.
Self-awareness is step one.
If you're not willing to beself-aware, please don't start
the journey.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
That is the hardest part.

Speaker 2 (01:19:31):
It is.
It's hard to make some of thatstuff.

Speaker 1 (01:19:34):
Yeah, that's what I feel like.
Looking around we all.
It's like we've made things soeasy to like to be the victim
and to be disconnected.
And I think that is the hardestpart.
You know, even with my kids Iwatch them.
I'm like you got to takeresponsibility for it.
I mean, you know it's not easy,but it's the only way.

Speaker 2 (01:19:50):
Our kids teach us so much, don't they?
Oh my gosh, they really do, Iknow they really are.

Speaker 1 (01:19:57):
Well, thank you so much for being here and yeah, if
you want to let I know youmentioned how they can find you.
If you want to just repeat,like your website, instagram,
and of course, I'll have it inthe show notes as well.

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
Yeah, so it's kerryhummingbirdcom.
K E R R I hummingbirdcom.
And if you put a forward, slashinner medicine, you'll get a
free meditation pack.
Thank you so much, thank you.

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259. Healing the Mind-Body Disconnect Through Sacred Practice

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