August 15, 2025 • 29 mins
Today Colin sits with OG Rock Fighter Justin Housman to discuss his career pivot from a journalist in the human powered outdoor media world to his new role in conservation at Save the Redwoods League.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Rock Fight. Rock Fight. RockFight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock
Fight.
Welcome to the Rock Fight,where we speak our truth, slay sacred
cows and sometimes agree todisagree. This is an outdoor podcast
that aims for the head. I'mColin True, and today I'm joined
by an old friend. JustinHausman is here to talk about his
(00:22):
new role in conservation. Butsome programming reminders first,
come back to the Rock Fight.This Monday we're to going well.
I'll be joined by brand andcreative expert producer Dave Outdoor
industry Insider, AKA theconsigliere Owen Comerford. And we'll
have your weekly dose ofoutdoor industry discourse on Tuesday.
We are once again going toopen the container with host Doug
(00:43):
Schnitzman, who will be hisguest this week. You know, I honestly
can't remember, so you'll haveto come back on Tuesday to find out.
And lastly, sign up for Newsfrom the Front, which will hopefully
be out by the time you'rehearing this episode. It's been a
busy week, you know, here atRock Fight hq. Okay. And as I'm recording
this, I'm behind on thenewsletter. So you know what? I don't
know and I hope this that youhave your newsletter by the time
(01:05):
you're listening to this and.All right, let's get into it. So
for the better part of thisshow's history, Justin Hausman was
a weekly co host. He was therewhen we broke the news about a new
show called Switchback Spring.He was there when we broke the news
about Yeti's plan to shutterMystery Ranch. And he was there for
the million times I asked himquestions about outdoor tech, just
(01:25):
so I could hear that bigfrustrated sigh of his. And if you
aren't familiar with Justin,either on the Rock Fight or otherwise,
he has spent the majority ofhis career as a journalist working
for titles like Surfer andAdventure Journal. But if you have
heard him on this show, thenyou know he has a soft spot for conservation
and for protecting our wildplaces, the places we all love to
go to do the things that welove to do. So a few months ago,
(01:48):
when he landed a job at theSave the Redwoods League, it wasn't
at all surprising that he wasable to use his incredible skill
as a writer to move on fromhis outdoor media days and into doing
work to help save those placesthat he loved so much. And the redwoods
were a perfect place for himto land, given his affinity for his
home in the Bay Area. Afterdozens and dozens of conversations
(02:08):
with Justin about outdoorindustry topics and the gear and
apparel that dominates thetopics we discuss the most here on
the Rock Fight. Him ending upat a non profit focus on conservation
was eye opening because theoutdoor industry isn't simply the
making and distribution ofoutdoor stuff. There are guides and
tourism boards and contentcreators all who consider what they
do to be part of the outdoorindustry. So since it's been a few
(02:32):
months, I asked Justin to comeback on the show with an update about
his new gig and particularlyto ask him how he ended up there.
The career paths of those whowork in our industry are rarely traditional,
so I was excited for him toimpart the wisdom of his journey
on our lucky listeners. AndJustin is here today, although he
was a bit rusty because eventhough he had his trusty podcast
mic instead of rolling, hemanaged to record himself using his
(02:52):
laptop microphone. So that'swhy he sounds a little different
then you probably remember himsounding. And right now he's listening
to this and getting really madat me. Love you Justin. So let's
get into it. Welcome back tothe Rock Fight, where today it's
the side of the outdoorindustry we rarely discuss with our
guy Justin Hausman. And that'scoming up right after a few words
from our partners. Liz andRoyal Robins were known as American
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Like I've been telling you, ifyou run an outdoor, an endurance
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(05:10):
today. All right, everybody,I'm here with an OG rock fighter,
my friend. Your friend. Firsttime in the pod. In a minute. It's
Justin Halsman. He's back.
You know, listener. I'm also.I'm just as surprised as you are
that Colin's been making theshow without me for the past, like,
six months. I just sort of gotshut down.
I. Frank, are you feelingrusty? Are you feeling like a little
pod rusty?
(05:33):
You know what? I hate to admitit, but I guess a little bit. I mean,
I listen to 45 minutes of 45minutes, you know, 45 hours of podcasts
a week. So. Yeah, you have acommunity listening to it. Exactly.
Yeah. It's all smartless.Smartless all the time. That's it.
Just back to back.
That's your go to for thecommute. Gets the right time every
time. Nails it.
It's by far the best podcastthat you could possibly listen to.
(05:54):
Rock Fight. I'm sorry. I mean,how dare you? Jason Bateman's not
on this. Will Arnett's not onit. Sean Hayes aren't on it. God,
it's good.
He's kind of the weakling,don't you think? Sean Hayes.
Oh, 100%. But show wouldn't bethe same without him. You have to
have. You absolutely have tohave him.
That's your celebrity podcast.That's the one you like the most?
Like, there's nothing. Even. Ididn't even think of it as a celebrity
podcast, but, I mean, I guessit is. But like, holy smokes, it's
(06:17):
good.
I like Polar Spot. AmyPoehler's new podcast is pretty good.
Happy hour, good hang. Yeah,it's a great name. Yeah, great name.
It is. She's great. And thenthe other one is the Lonely island
with Seth Meyers. That's agood podcast.
Okay, I'll try that one. I, I,I want to get into the Ted Danson,
Woody Harrelson one because that.
Oh, I didn't know they weredoing. They do. Are they Doing a
Cheers rewatch?
(06:37):
I don't. I don't think so.
Oh, I just assumed.
Yeah. By the way, I am.
That's amazing.
Absolutely. How are you? I'mnot, like, jumping around or. I'm
jumping around.
Oh, okay. Well, so Justin'sback. Because, you know, most of
the time on the show, we'retalking about, you know, when it
comes to the outdoor industry,the making and distribution of outdoor
things. But the definition ofthe industry is kind of much large.
(06:58):
Larger than just simply gearand apparel. Right. So Justin recently
left his old career behind andstarted working at the Save the Redwoods
League.
I'm not sure if I would say Ileft my career behind, Colin. That's
a bit extreme.
Well, you kind of did. I guessnot. You're still writing.
Exactly. Yeah.
Okay. All right, fine. Justinpivoted in his career.
Thank you.
To join Save the RedwoodsLeague. I want to know what the league
(07:19):
is that Save the Redwoods ispart of. Well, who are you competing
against?
No, well, yeah, good point.Gosh, you know, it's funny.
I did use.
I wrote something recently,and I wasn't referring to us as referring
to this, like, this, like,group of organizations that does
some work in the Sierra. And Icalled them like a sort of a Avengers
(07:39):
of, like, conservation groups.And I, for a long time, struggled.
Do I. Do I talk about Save theRed Wins League and then mention
Justice League, But I couldn'tquite bring myself to do it. I think
it's because I have just anintense distaste for DC Comics.
I like Superman. You didn'tlike Superman as much?
Not nearly as much, no.
But League, I think I'm eitherthinking sports or I'm thinking comic
(08:00):
books. There's no other reallymore accepted, I think, use of that
word, except maybe in thiscontext of Saint the Redwoods League.
You're right, though. It's agood point. Is there a group of things
doing this? Yeah.
Like, are you competitiveagainst, like, the Save the Douglas
Firs? You're like, fuck you,Douglas Firs. You know?
Yeah, that's actually exactlyright. Yes, that's exactly right.
(08:20):
All right, so we mentioned youpivoted off of your career. You didn't
just leave it behind, but,like, what took you down the path,
though, man? Because you. Iflongtime listeners will know that
you were interested inscience. You were an archaeologist.
Excuse me. Yeah. No, archaeologist.
That's correct.
I almost said paleontologist,which I don't.
Understand why people confusethose two.
I don't either. Why does thatsay they're not even close. Except
for the ologies.
They're studying old things. Idon't know.
Maybe.
(08:41):
Yeah. Okay. Nothing. Sorry,Digit. There's digging.
You were an archaeologist, andthen you went down the road of writing
in the outdoor industry,surfing, those kinds of things, journalism.
Knowing you as well as I do, Isee the synergy for you in protecting
places. So what was thejourney that was like for you to
find yourself where you are now?
This sounds a little bit likea job interview.
It is.
Are you interviewing me for.Have I applied for a position? Is
(09:02):
that what's happening? I'm tired.
You don't need to know theanswer to that question. We need
a starting first baseman inthe Save the Ferns league.
I'm so in. God, I would loveto play some baseball or softball.
Anything. I'm sorry, what now?Conservatism? What are you asking
me?
Yeah, what was the journey,man? Like, you know, why. Why were
you. Why'd you pursue. Youwere. You were. You were an outdoor
(09:24):
journalist. Why'd you. Whatmade you interested in conservation?
It's a good question. I thinkthat there's Comes a point. I mean,
I've been writing about thingsI love doing for my entire career,
right? Like, for. Since Istarted that. Writing about surfing.
And at a certain point, Ithink you. Not everybody, obviously.
Plenty of writers just writewhatever they want to write the rest
(09:44):
of their lives. But at acertain point, it just felt like
it wasn't. I wasn't, like,doing anything, you know, like, you're
writing stories and people areenjoying them, but for what, you
know? And like, that wasn'tenough for me. And again, it is for
tons of people. I mean, mostwriters, I would guess. But in some
(10:05):
ways, it felt like I wasspinning my wheels. In some ways
it felt like. Not that I waswasting my time, but it was like,
how many more articles can Iwrite about someone climbing something
or. Or surfing something orwearing something, or me wearing
something, or you wearingsomething or whatever. It just felt
like I couldn't. I was just. Ineeded something else. I wanted it
to be more meaningful. And Ithink, you know, a lot of us. One
(10:30):
of the things. One of thewonderful things about being a journalist
is that you can kind ofpretend to be something, like any
job you want, like, anyprofession, right? Like, if you're
writing about something, youcan kind of pretend to be that thing.
And so I always found myselfattracted to writing nature stories
and science stories. You know,how. How do animals work? How do.
How do mountains work? How dorivers work? Do fish Feel pain, you
(10:51):
know, like all. Whatever, justanything like this. And so, you know,
in retrospect, gosh, I wish Icould have gone back to school to
become, or I guess, you know,I wish I'd studied, like biology,
or I wish I could have becomelike a fisheries biologist, or I
wish I could have become a forest.
A forester instead of archaeology.
Yeah, I didn't even studythat. You don't need to. Turns out
you don't need a degree inarcheology to be an archaeologist.
(11:11):
But hot tip, kids. I. Youknow, it's like at a certain point,
it just became, you know,clear to me that I cared more about
trying to save the places thatI love than I did telling. Just telling
people how great they are, ifthat makes sense.
Dude, there's. I guarantee youin the hundreds of episodes you did
with me that we talkedmultiple times about the. Not only
(11:36):
the csamness of outdoor stuff,but probably about outdoor journalism
too.
Right?
I mean, it is a little. Andit's not. That's not really to put
the blame on anybody. Thesestories have been being written since
the 70s, right? I mean, like,it's like, how many more ways can
you spin it around and to finda new angle on a tragedy or a triumph
or emotional growth thathappens, that takes place in a wild
(12:00):
place. Right. There's a lot.There's a lot out there.
You cannot continue to make itnew. I mean, you need new voices.
You need new people for peoplewho are experiencing, talking about
these things for the firsttime. My very first day at Surfer
magazine, the editor thathired me, Brendan Thomas, who now
runs the Golfers Journal, areally successful golf publication
and events brand podcast,probably almost, almost certainly
(12:25):
anyway. But he was the editorof Surfer and he hired me. And during
our. My very first day, I wentdown to San Clemente to meet everybody
at the office and he saidsomething he made some sort of reference
to, you know, we make 12issues a year. This is back when
it was a monthly.
Yeah.
And there's only so many waysyou can wrap a burrito. And like,
that's always stuck with me,you know, it's like, that's. That's
the thing. I mean, I don'teven know if he came up with that,
(12:47):
but it's like, that's true. Imean, how many times can you say,
you know, and we looked atmaps and we found a point that nobody
had surfed before, and weshowed up and the waves were perfect
and we were ripping. You know,it's just like, dude, I mean, Right.
It's true. Zero adventure. Butthere's only, like, three choices,
you.
Know, and it's like, that'sthe same way with outdoor journalism
more broadly, for me, anyway,you know, and, you know, I'm sure
(13:09):
anybody out there who's doingit understands. I mean, it's like
there's really. You can tellnew stories about new people to the.
To. To the scene. Right. Like,some. Someone's doing something interesting,
no one really knows who theyare. There's a story that's great.
But anyway, I don't even thinkit would have mattered. It just felt
like I wanted action. I wantedto be doing something that was. That
was meaningful to me. And. Andespecially because, you know, I live
(13:33):
in Northern California, andour organization is based in Northern
California, and most of ourwork is in Northern California. So
it's like, these are placesthat I dearly love, and I get to
actually have a hand indirectly protecting them and restoring
them and all the work that theleague does. And it was just a really,
you know, very obviousattraction to me. I mean, you can.
It's so important to writestories that illuminate, and they
(13:56):
get people interested in theoutdoors, and they get people interested
in these sorts of things. Imean, of course it is. Yeah. And
that's. That's veryworthwhile, and it's. Can be just
as meaningful. I just wanted amore direct hand in it.
Well, I want to talk a bitabout what you guys do specifically
there, but before we get tothat, like, you looked at a few different
things along the way, right? Imean, you know, you looked at some
mountain biking kind ofconservation groups, so definitely
(14:18):
a few things that you wereinterested in. What was intriguing
about the different ways youcould build a career in conservation?
As you were sort of looking atthe landscape, you ultimately landed
in a place that makes a lot ofsense. But you were thinking about
this for a while, so, like,what was. As you were sort of like,
looking at this career pivot,you know, what was intriguing about
that? How did that kind of.How did that fire get fueled? By
looking at, you know, what youcould be doing in a role like.
(14:39):
This, literally entirely thefact that it's. Well, at least for
my organ, like, what, youknow, what drew me to this organization
in particular entirely is justbecause the redwoods are my favorite
place in the world. I mean,that's why I live where I do. It's.
You know, and so it really isthat simple. And the organization
(15:02):
is fantastic. You look underthe hood a little bit. You're like,
oh, wow. They're like tellingwonderful stories about these places.
They're trying to connectpeople with these places. They're
trying, I mean, obviouslythey're protecting and preserving
these old growth forests andhelping restore roadward ecosystems
and all these sorts of things,but at the same time making it like
something I want. Like youwant to do, right? Like it's a very
(15:25):
people oriented organization.
Okay, so what does Save theRedwoods do? Like what is. You know,
so, and I'm not saying it'sone for one that this conservation
group is the same as any otherone, but like, you know, you're saving
the redwoods. Clearly it's inthe name to your point. It's like
this is a special place. Howdoes that work happen? Like what
do you guys do?
Well, it kind of depends. Soyou know, we have like three pillars,
(15:47):
Protect, connect and restore,which are kind of the mainstays of
the organization at themoment. But it's been different historically.
You know, originally it wasabout just acquiring land, acquiring
redwoods and protecting themthat way and helping establish parks
and things like that. And westill do a little bit of that, but
you know, recognizing thewhat's coming down the road. You
(16:10):
know, we have a hugecommitment to restoring forests.
So whether that's forests thatwe hold, although we don't hold a
lot of lands, butcollaborating with, with regional
parks, state parks, nationalparks, on, on, on restoring redwood
forests. And so we have anarmy of, of, you know, professional
foresters and a big scienceteam and that's what they do, you
(16:31):
know. And so, you know, wehelp advise different organizations
on, on best practices. We, wedo a lot of cultural burns with indigenous
groups and things like that,just helping to try and improve the
like fire resiliency and justthe health of these ecosystems.
And so it's an oldorganization too?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100 yearparty was, you know, a few years
(16:54):
back, but yeah.
What do you think? I mean,obviously a lot of differences, but
like is the mission relativelythe same? Is it kind of. Is there,
is there. Do you think there'sa lot of differences between what,
what you guys do now versushow it all got.
That's an interesting questionin some ways, I mean for, for sure
from the founding, but I mean,just over the decades. Yes. I mean
in the sense that, you know,there's only like you run into a
(17:17):
limit with how much land youcan acquire. Right. Like, you know,
one of the things that, youknow, over the year, over the decades,
the league is predictingsomething like 220,000 acres of redwood
forest, which is a hugeamount. We'd like to. We'd like to
get that to like 800,000.That's our. That's our 100 year plan.
And. But at a certain point,you know, land acquisition only goes
(17:37):
so far, you know, and so. Andso we've, you know, I would guess
that now versus, like in, youknow, 40 years ago, our science program
is really developed in termsof, you know, like, funding studies,
doing our own, all that sortof stuff. So it's not as much just
about buying a plot of redwoodtrees and making sure they don't
get cut down. It's much moreabout how do we establish the health
(17:58):
of the entire redwood range.And for us, that means the. All the
redwoods on the Californiacoast, but also the giant sequoia
in the Sierra. They're relatedtrees. They're both redwoods. So
we do a lot of work with thegiant sequoia as well. And so our
vision is reviving the entirerange to what it was before logging,
before industrial logging. Imean, that's the goal.
If I paint a tree red, will itcount? Will you protect it and save
(18:21):
it?
What a good question. Well,no, maybe. Come on. Is it a redwood
already?
I could make some dye in there.
It's not the color necessarilyof the tree that's important. Colin,
what are you doing?
I mean, we didn't even talkabout your role. What would you say
you do here?
Yeah, good question. Soobviously, one of the most crucial
(18:44):
parts of. It's a nonprofit.You know, one of the crucial parts
is getting your message out.So that's what. That's what I do.
So I get to. I get to. It's.It's incredible. I get to write about
my favorite trees and myfavorite places in the world. So
in some ways, it's anextension of what I've always done
where I just, you know, I'vebeen really fortunate to cover the
things that I care about themost. And this is. This is that again.
So.
(19:05):
Right.
We just wrapped up. Well, wedidn't just wrap it up. It just arrived
in the mail today. For me,Redwoods magazine, we make. We used
to do two a year. We do. Wedid one this year. I don't know if
we're gonna do two next yearor not. Covering all the work that
we've done in the years pastalso just fun stories, just generally
speaking. And so like that.That just. That just showed up. We
give it to all of our members.So, you know, if you want to read
(19:28):
more of My work. Become amember of, say, the Red Ones League.
Get the magazine in the mail.
Is. Is it? Well, we just gotdone saying that there's no more
outdoor stories to tell.Right. So there's clearly stories
to tell from the conservationworld, though it's a little different
because it's purpose drivenfor 100%.
Yeah. And it's also, we'realso not, it's not like that's the
other thing too. It's not likea daily fire hose of news that you
either have to cover orresponsible for pumping out. You
(19:49):
know, we tell a story when weneed to tell a story.
Are you hoping Killian Journeyeventually climbs a redwoods so you
can write about it?
The worlds collide. Yeah, heclimbed all the redwoods, fashion
anyone's ever done. I mean,that would be pretty.
He's probably already donethat. Let's be honest. You know,
he didn't decide to talk aboutthat one.
No, there's, I mean, there,like, there's, there's so much. I
mean, it's, it. I mean,there's. People study these forests
(20:10):
their entire lives, you know,so there's, there's just so much
and it's just different. It'snot, you know, it's, it's, it's hard
to explain. It's. It's justeverything about it is more meaningful,
impactful. And there's areason that you're writing every
story rather. You're notchasing traffic, you're not chasing
clicks, nothing like that.
No, I mean, and this, thisword may sound like I'm trying to
cheapen it, but it's not,it's, it's a little, it's edutainment
(20:30):
in a way. Right. It's kind oflike you, you really, you're learning
something while you're alsokind of being entertained. And there's
something, there's somethingspecial about it and it's like fascinating,
but also like, oh, this is,this is something that kind of is,
you know, elevating my app.My, my outdoorsy knowledge as well
as my science knowledge.
Well, sure. I mean, like, Ithink all of us want to know more
about the areas that we, thatwe, that we recreate and that we
love. I mean, I was just up in the.
(20:50):
Yeah. Sierra.
The last week, you know, I didwhat I always do, which is like,
immediately just bone up onthat. On that place. Who were the
first people to come here?Who, you know, like, what were they
doing? Like, why is this here?Why are these roads here? Why are
these places called this like,what happened, you know, because
I love spending time there andriding bikes where I was and paddling
the lakes and all that stuff.I want to know everything about it.
(21:10):
So it means the same thing here.
Well, Kelly was saying you,you have. I mean, honestly, man,
you made a career out of like,passionate things pretty much from
the get go. Even if that isarchaeology, which you didn't have
to have a degree for, that'samazing to know. But also to get
into as a lifelong surfer,well, you had to have a degree. You
don't have to have anarcheology degree.
Connections, you know, exactlyhow many times have you seen Indiana
Jones? Can you hum the theme?Can you get the jokes? Can you get
(21:35):
the reference, rank the.
Movies for me, by the way, can you.
Have you seen enough SylvesterStallone movies to make it through
an entire day digging holeswhere all you have to talk about
is like your favorite 80smovies? Like, if you can do all that,
you can beat archaeologist.
I'd be a great archaeologist.Having all the qualifications. Oh,
my God, I missed my call.
100%. No, they're alwayslooking, always looking for somebody
(21:57):
to dig a hole.
Well, the point is, like,you've been able to kind of take
your passions and turn theminto your career. Right. Your life.
I wouldn't do it any othermagazine, frankly. That's. Why would
you not?
Well, right. And so this isjust another example of that. So
I think, you know, beyond justbringing, you know, my friend and
a former voice. Not a former,but a voice that the listeners will
recognize, you know, what'sadvice you would give listeners,
(22:17):
right? To get involved insomething they're passionate about.
I mean, like, because itwasn't, you know, it still took you
a minute to figure this oneout too, after doing a lot of other
interesting things as well. Imean, is there something you wish
you had known?
In some ways, it's hard. Thisis such a personal question because
I've had such a personal, likea unique upbringing and environment
(22:38):
to where I didn't have anybodyI could disappoint. I didn't have
any expectations, you know,I've basically been on my own since
I was 16 years old. So Iliterally, at no point other than
like the crowd have I thoughtabout what other people think. So
it's. It's just different. Inever expected to be a writer, you
know, I really didn't. I guessmy first career choice was professor.
(23:01):
And you know, along the way, I.
Really been a good professor, sure.
But there's like nine jobsevery year for professors. In the
entire country, you know?Yeah, right. And I didn't want to
be in school anymore, sowriting made sense. I loved surfing,
you know, so I reached out topeople that, that did that, you know,
I didn't. I knew I didn't wantto pour beer anymore. I knew I wasn't
(23:23):
gonna. You know, I thought forother people.
To be clear to people whodidn't know that you used to be a
bartender.
Yes, I was a beer tender formany years. You know, I, I thought
I would probably go down thebeer world, which. But also I love
beer. So, like, that wouldhave also worked. I just, I've never
had the patience to be. To, toclock in, clock out for something
I don't like to do. I've justnever. I've never. I've just never
(23:43):
done that.
Yeah.
And so I guess that would be.The advice would be unless your singular
joy in life is clowning orsomething, you know, like, it's,
It's. I don't know. I mean, Ijust feel like you keep your options
open and you, and you and youmove toward the things that, that,
that excite you, you know? Andthen for me, that's always been surfing
(24:05):
and being outdoors and, andprotecting the places that I love.
And so I guess had I exhaustedall those possibilities, then maybe
I go work for Google or, youknow, like, or whatever, you know.
I don't know. I don't. I don'treally. Who knows why people choose
to do what they do? But I'venever been motivated by money specifically,
and I've never had thepatience to spend all day doing something
(24:28):
I don't want to do. So it'skind of just kind of worked.
Which of your jobs affordedyou the most flexibility to go surfing?
Working at Server magazine, asyou probably expect. I mean, that
was pretty sweet. That waspretty sweet. I mean, it was like
three articles a week, I thinkwas my, on my, my first retainer
gig. I think it was threearticles a week. And then one feature
(24:50):
in each magazine was my role.And so if I wrote three articles
on Monday, hello Santa Cruzfor four days, you know, like, it
would just surf whenever Iwanted. And like, also, hey, I can't
turn that in because it's.Firing is always a good excuse to
Surfer magazine or was. Sure.Yeah. So, you know, that was pretty.
That one was. Yeah, pretty good.
(25:11):
How's the Ocean beach summerschool for you right now?
Don't know, don't care. Don't.
What?
No, just don't. I just. Youhaven't been surfing no, no. Talk
to a big game about, like,falling in love with it again or
just. Yeah, whatever.
But now you're so calm andrelaxed and content.
This is.
This is crazy. I'm so. We'reso happy for you, man.
I mean, not surfing is a goodway to be calm and content and relaxed,
(25:34):
right? I mean, if I didn'thave mountain biking, I don't know
what I would do.
But you're not riding your Ebike anymore, are you?
Hell yeah, dude. Hell yeah.
I ranted hard about it. Hasn'tcome out yet, but you'll hear it
on Wednesday.
You're kind of an idiot.
I mean, I get so mad at a packof E bikers.
Well, sure, A pack of. I'llget mad at a pack of any cyclists.
(25:54):
Pack of anybody.
I mean, I'm currently goingthrough a full on, like, fuck E bikes
mode.
Why you don't have one is partof the reason I never will. You know
what else you're never gonnado? Ride two laps of where I wrote
on Sunday because you can't doit on a regular bike.
Why is that a plus?
Why is riding more fun trailsa plus?
(26:15):
Why is riding further? Whocares? I still get out and rode for
three hours. You rode forthree hours. I got to do multiple
laps.
Super fun downhill. Multiplelaps that I wouldn't be able to do
on a regular bike because Iwouldn't have had the time.
I got rid of my. I got rid ofthe Timberjack. I'm only riding the
fully rigid karate Monkeyright now.
Good Lord.
Fully. I'm going to turn itinto a single speaker.
(26:35):
It's going to turn into aRivendell before you even know.
I'm going to see if there'sany ways to take while you're riding
these days.
Or can you see with all themustache wax getting in your eyes.
Well, I can tell you that youare the whole. I speak for Dave and
Doug and Shantae. Oh, andeverybody. We all love you and Messini
(26:57):
as often as we used to. Andwe're proud of you and we're happy
that you're doing things thatare making you happy.
Well, I am lurking. You know,I do lurk.
Hey, man, you swooped in on myLinkedIn page this week. It was great.
Yeah, I'll do that from timeto time. And I'm listening to all
the shows, so, you know, yougot notes. I'm kind of saving all
my notes for, like, a six.
Justin's not just. You'regonna be hearing Justin again. Don't
worry, he's.
(27:17):
Well, once that appearance feegets gets all wrangled.
Yeah, well, I'm working withthe league.
Okay, great.
When are you gonna form theleague softball team? That's what
I want to know. I figured thatwas the last one.
I did notice on my colleague'sdesk this morning, she had a trophy
that was skeeball championSave the Redwoods League. So apparently
(27:39):
there was a skeeballtournament at some point.
Hey, man. Good seeing you.
Yeah, you too. Good. Good tohear my own voice on the Rock Fight
again.
I'm glad you dusted the micoff. It looks good.
Yeah, yeah. I'll dust it offagain in six months.
All right, that's the show. Wewant your emails, send them to myrockfightmail.com,
the Rock Fight's a productionof Rock Fight LLC for our good friend
(28:02):
Justin Hausman. I'm ColinTrue. Thanks for listening and here
to take us out, it's KristaMakes with the Rock Fight Fight song.
We'll see you next time, Rock fighters.
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rockfight. Rock fight. Roc. Rock Bike.
Rock Fight. Welcome to theRock Bike? Where we speak our truth.
(28:23):
Slay sacred cows and sometimesagree to disagree. We talk about
human powered outdooractivities and big bites about topics
that we find interesting likepop culture, music, the latest movie
reviews, ideas that aim forthe this is where we speak our truth.
(28:44):
This is where we speak ourtruth. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock
fight. Welcome to the Rockfight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome
to the Rock flight. Rockflight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock
fight. Rock fight. Welcome tothe Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock
(29:06):
fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Rock Fight. Rock Fight. RockFight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock
Fight.
Welcome to the Rock Fight,where we speak our truth, slay sacred
cows and sometimes agree todisagree. This is an outdoor podcast
that aims for the head. I'mColin True, and today I'm joined
by an old friend. JustinHausman is here to talk about his
(00:22):
new role in conservation. Butsome programming reminders first,
come back to the Rock Fight.This Monday we're to going well.
I'll be joined by brand andcreative expert producer Dave Outdoor
industry Insider, AKA theconsigliere Owen Comerford. And we'll
have your weekly dose ofoutdoor industry discourse on Tuesday.
We are once again going toopen the container with host Doug
(00:43):
Schnitzman, who will be hisguest this week. You know, I honestly
can't remember, so you'll haveto come back on Tuesday to find out.
And lastly, sign up for Newsfrom the Front, which will hopefully
be out by the time you'rehearing this episode. It's been a
busy week, you know, here atRock Fight hq. Okay. And as I'm recording
this, I'm behind on thenewsletter. So you know what? I don't
know and I hope this that youhave your newsletter by the time
(01:05):
you're listening to this and.All right, let's get into it. So
for the better part of thisshow's history, Justin Hausman was
a weekly co host. He was therewhen we broke the news about a new
show called Switchback Spring.He was there when we broke the news
about Yeti's plan to shutterMystery Ranch. And he was there for
the million times I asked himquestions about outdoor tech, just
(01:25):
so I could hear that bigfrustrated sigh of his. And if you
aren't familiar with Justin,either on the Rock Fight or otherwise,
he has spent the majority ofhis career as a journalist working
for titles like Surfer andAdventure Journal. But if you have
heard him on this show, thenyou know he has a soft spot for conservation
and for protecting our wildplaces, the places we all love to
go to do the things that welove to do. So a few months ago,
(01:48):
when he landed a job at theSave the Redwoods League, it wasn't
at all surprising that he wasable to use his incredible skill
as a writer to move on fromhis outdoor media days and into doing
work to help save those placesthat he loved so much. And the redwoods
were a perfect place for himto land, given his affinity for his
home in the Bay Area. Afterdozens and dozens of conversations
(02:08):
with Justin about outdoorindustry topics and the gear and
apparel that dominates thetopics we discuss the most here on
the Rock Fight. Him ending upat a non profit focus on conservation
was eye opening because theoutdoor industry isn't simply the
making and distribution ofoutdoor stuff. There are guides and
tourism boards and contentcreators all who consider what they
do to be part of the outdoorindustry. So since it's been a few
(02:32):
months, I asked Justin to comeback on the show with an update about
his new gig and particularlyto ask him how he ended up there.
The career paths of those whowork in our industry are rarely traditional,
so I was excited for him toimpart the wisdom of his journey
on our lucky listeners. AndJustin is here today, although he
was a bit rusty because eventhough he had his trusty podcast
mic instead of rolling, hemanaged to record himself using his
(02:52):
laptop microphone. So that'swhy he sounds a little different
then you probably remember himsounding. And right now he's listening
to this and getting really madat me. Love you Justin. So let's
get into it. Welcome back tothe Rock Fight, where today it's
the side of the outdoorindustry we rarely discuss with our
guy Justin Hausman. And that'scoming up right after a few words
from our partners. Liz andRoyal Robins were known as American
(03:21):
Climbing Royalty. Part of thefirst group of Yosemite based climbers
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the ethic of clean climbing,and who with a core group of startup
brands would serve as thefoundation of our modern outdoor
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a true climbing functionality,Royal Robins has become synonymous
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water based tributaries beingRoyal Robins because nature and adventure
are good for the soul. Heyeveryone, before we keep going here,
I need to tell you about ourteammates at Darby Communications.
Like I've been telling you, ifyou run an outdoor, an endurance
or an active lifestyle brand,there is no better PR and digital
marketing belay partner ordrinking buddy than Darby. They can
(04:49):
help your business reach newheights, and they might just keep
you from falling on your ass.Since we started working with Darby,
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I want you to hear me on this.More and more people have reached
out to us here at the RockFight because of that messaging.
Look, guys, I'm dead serious.If they can help us, they can help
anybody. Hit themup@darbycommunications.com do it
(05:10):
today. All right, everybody,I'm here with an OG rock fighter,
my friend. Your friend. Firsttime in the pod. In a minute. It's
Justin Halsman. He's back.
You know, listener. I'm also.I'm just as surprised as you are
that Colin's been making theshow without me for the past, like,
six months. I just sort of gotshut down.
I. Frank, are you feelingrusty? Are you feeling like a little
pod rusty?
(05:33):
You know what? I hate to admitit, but I guess a little bit. I mean,
I listen to 45 minutes of 45minutes, you know, 45 hours of podcasts
a week. So. Yeah, you have acommunity listening to it. Exactly.
Yeah. It's all smartless.Smartless all the time. That's it.
Just back to back.
That's your go to for thecommute. Gets the right time every
time. Nails it.
It's by far the best podcastthat you could possibly listen to.
(05:54):
Rock Fight. I'm sorry. I mean,how dare you? Jason Bateman's not
on this. Will Arnett's not onit. Sean Hayes aren't on it. God,
it's good.
He's kind of the weakling,don't you think? Sean Hayes.
Oh, 100%. But show wouldn't bethe same without him. You have to
have. You absolutely have tohave him.
That's your celebrity podcast.That's the one you like the most?
Like, there's nothing. Even. Ididn't even think of it as a celebrity
podcast, but, I mean, I guessit is. But like, holy smokes, it's
(06:17):
good.
I like Polar Spot. AmyPoehler's new podcast is pretty good.
Happy hour, good hang. Yeah,it's a great name. Yeah, great name.
It is. She's great. And thenthe other one is the Lonely island
with Seth Meyers. That's agood podcast.
Okay, I'll try that one. I, I,I want to get into the Ted Danson,
Woody Harrelson one because that.
Oh, I didn't know they weredoing. They do. Are they Doing a
Cheers rewatch?
(06:37):
I don't. I don't think so.
Oh, I just assumed.
Yeah. By the way, I am.
That's amazing.
Absolutely. How are you? I'mnot, like, jumping around or. I'm
jumping around.
Oh, okay. Well, so Justin'sback. Because, you know, most of
the time on the show, we'retalking about, you know, when it
comes to the outdoor industry,the making and distribution of outdoor
things. But the definition ofthe industry is kind of much large.
(06:58):
Larger than just simply gearand apparel. Right. So Justin recently
left his old career behind andstarted working at the Save the Redwoods
League.
I'm not sure if I would say Ileft my career behind, Colin. That's
a bit extreme.
Well, you kind of did. I guessnot. You're still writing.
Exactly. Yeah.
Okay. All right, fine. Justinpivoted in his career.
Thank you.
To join Save the RedwoodsLeague. I want to know what the league
(07:19):
is that Save the Redwoods ispart of. Well, who are you competing
against?
No, well, yeah, good point.Gosh, you know, it's funny.
I did use.
I wrote something recently,and I wasn't referring to us as referring
to this, like, this, like,group of organizations that does
some work in the Sierra. And Icalled them like a sort of a Avengers
(07:39):
of, like, conservation groups.And I, for a long time, struggled.
Do I. Do I talk about Save theRed Wins League and then mention
Justice League, But I couldn'tquite bring myself to do it. I think
it's because I have just anintense distaste for DC Comics.
I like Superman. You didn'tlike Superman as much?
Not nearly as much, no.
But League, I think I'm eitherthinking sports or I'm thinking comic
(08:00):
books. There's no other reallymore accepted, I think, use of that
word, except maybe in thiscontext of Saint the Redwoods League.
You're right, though. It's agood point. Is there a group of things
doing this? Yeah.
Like, are you competitiveagainst, like, the Save the Douglas
Firs? You're like, fuck you,Douglas Firs. You know?
Yeah, that's actually exactlyright. Yes, that's exactly right.
(08:20):
All right, so we mentioned youpivoted off of your career. You didn't
just leave it behind, but,like, what took you down the path,
though, man? Because you. Iflongtime listeners will know that
you were interested inscience. You were an archaeologist.
Excuse me. Yeah. No, archaeologist.
That's correct.
I almost said paleontologist,which I don't.
Understand why people confusethose two.
I don't either. Why does thatsay they're not even close. Except
for the ologies.
They're studying old things. Idon't know.
Maybe.
(08:41):
Yeah. Okay. Nothing. Sorry,Digit. There's digging.
You were an archaeologist, andthen you went down the road of writing
in the outdoor industry,surfing, those kinds of things, journalism.
Knowing you as well as I do, Isee the synergy for you in protecting
places. So what was thejourney that was like for you to
find yourself where you are now?
This sounds a little bit likea job interview.
It is.
Are you interviewing me for.Have I applied for a position? Is
(09:02):
that what's happening? I'm tired.
You don't need to know theanswer to that question. We need
a starting first baseman inthe Save the Ferns league.
I'm so in. God, I would loveto play some baseball or softball.
Anything. I'm sorry, what now?Conservatism? What are you asking
me?
Yeah, what was the journey,man? Like, you know, why. Why were
you. Why'd you pursue. Youwere. You were. You were an outdoor
(09:24):
journalist. Why'd you. Whatmade you interested in conservation?
It's a good question. I thinkthat there's Comes a point. I mean,
I've been writing about thingsI love doing for my entire career,
right? Like, for. Since Istarted that. Writing about surfing.
And at a certain point, Ithink you. Not everybody, obviously.
Plenty of writers just writewhatever they want to write the rest
(09:44):
of their lives. But at acertain point, it just felt like
it wasn't. I wasn't, like,doing anything, you know, like, you're
writing stories and people areenjoying them, but for what, you
know? And like, that wasn'tenough for me. And again, it is for
tons of people. I mean, mostwriters, I would guess. But in some
(10:05):
ways, it felt like I wasspinning my wheels. In some ways
it felt like. Not that I waswasting my time, but it was like,
how many more articles can Iwrite about someone climbing something
or. Or surfing something orwearing something, or me wearing
something, or you wearingsomething or whatever. It just felt
like I couldn't. I was just. Ineeded something else. I wanted it
to be more meaningful. And Ithink, you know, a lot of us. One
(10:30):
of the things. One of thewonderful things about being a journalist
is that you can kind ofpretend to be something, like any
job you want, like, anyprofession, right? Like, if you're
writing about something, youcan kind of pretend to be that thing.
And so I always found myselfattracted to writing nature stories
and science stories. You know,how. How do animals work? How do.
How do mountains work? How dorivers work? Do fish Feel pain, you
(10:51):
know, like all. Whatever, justanything like this. And so, you know,
in retrospect, gosh, I wish Icould have gone back to school to
become, or I guess, you know,I wish I'd studied, like biology,
or I wish I could have becomelike a fisheries biologist, or I
wish I could have become a forest.
A forester instead of archaeology.
Yeah, I didn't even studythat. You don't need to. Turns out
you don't need a degree inarcheology to be an archaeologist.
(11:11):
But hot tip, kids. I. Youknow, it's like at a certain point,
it just became, you know,clear to me that I cared more about
trying to save the places thatI love than I did telling. Just telling
people how great they are, ifthat makes sense.
Dude, there's. I guarantee youin the hundreds of episodes you did
with me that we talkedmultiple times about the. Not only
(11:36):
the csamness of outdoor stuff,but probably about outdoor journalism
too.
Right?
I mean, it is a little. Andit's not. That's not really to put
the blame on anybody. Thesestories have been being written since
the 70s, right? I mean, like,it's like, how many more ways can
you spin it around and to finda new angle on a tragedy or a triumph
or emotional growth thathappens, that takes place in a wild
(12:00):
place. Right. There's a lot.There's a lot out there.
You cannot continue to make itnew. I mean, you need new voices.
You need new people for peoplewho are experiencing, talking about
these things for the firsttime. My very first day at Surfer
magazine, the editor thathired me, Brendan Thomas, who now
runs the Golfers Journal, areally successful golf publication
and events brand podcast,probably almost, almost certainly
(12:25):
anyway. But he was the editorof Surfer and he hired me. And during
our. My very first day, I wentdown to San Clemente to meet everybody
at the office and he saidsomething he made some sort of reference
to, you know, we make 12issues a year. This is back when
it was a monthly.
Yeah.
And there's only so many waysyou can wrap a burrito. And like,
that's always stuck with me,you know, it's like, that's. That's
the thing. I mean, I don'teven know if he came up with that,
(12:47):
but it's like, that's true. Imean, how many times can you say,
you know, and we looked atmaps and we found a point that nobody
had surfed before, and weshowed up and the waves were perfect
and we were ripping. You know,it's just like, dude, I mean, Right.
It's true. Zero adventure. Butthere's only, like, three choices,
you.
Know, and it's like, that'sthe same way with outdoor journalism
more broadly, for me, anyway,you know, and, you know, I'm sure
(13:09):
anybody out there who's doingit understands. I mean, it's like
there's really. You can tellnew stories about new people to the.
To. To the scene. Right. Like,some. Someone's doing something interesting,
no one really knows who theyare. There's a story that's great.
But anyway, I don't even thinkit would have mattered. It just felt
like I wanted action. I wantedto be doing something that was. That
was meaningful to me. And. Andespecially because, you know, I live
(13:33):
in Northern California, andour organization is based in Northern
California, and most of ourwork is in Northern California. So
it's like, these are placesthat I dearly love, and I get to
actually have a hand indirectly protecting them and restoring
them and all the work that theleague does. And it was just a really,
you know, very obviousattraction to me. I mean, you can.
It's so important to writestories that illuminate, and they
(13:56):
get people interested in theoutdoors, and they get people interested
in these sorts of things. Imean, of course it is. Yeah. And
that's. That's veryworthwhile, and it's. Can be just
as meaningful. I just wanted amore direct hand in it.
Well, I want to talk a bitabout what you guys do specifically
there, but before we get tothat, like, you looked at a few different
things along the way, right? Imean, you know, you looked at some
mountain biking kind ofconservation groups, so definitely
(14:18):
a few things that you wereinterested in. What was intriguing
about the different ways youcould build a career in conservation?
As you were sort of looking atthe landscape, you ultimately landed
in a place that makes a lot ofsense. But you were thinking about
this for a while, so, like,what was. As you were sort of like,
looking at this career pivot,you know, what was intriguing about
that? How did that kind of.How did that fire get fueled? By
looking at, you know, what youcould be doing in a role like.
(14:39):
This, literally entirely thefact that it's. Well, at least for
my organ, like, what, youknow, what drew me to this organization
in particular entirely is justbecause the redwoods are my favorite
place in the world. I mean,that's why I live where I do. It's.
You know, and so it really isthat simple. And the organization
(15:02):
is fantastic. You look underthe hood a little bit. You're like,
oh, wow. They're like tellingwonderful stories about these places.
They're trying to connectpeople with these places. They're
trying, I mean, obviouslythey're protecting and preserving
these old growth forests andhelping restore roadward ecosystems
and all these sorts of things,but at the same time making it like
something I want. Like youwant to do, right? Like it's a very
(15:25):
people oriented organization.
Okay, so what does Save theRedwoods do? Like what is. You know,
so, and I'm not saying it'sone for one that this conservation
group is the same as any otherone, but like, you know, you're saving
the redwoods. Clearly it's inthe name to your point. It's like
this is a special place. Howdoes that work happen? Like what
do you guys do?
Well, it kind of depends. Soyou know, we have like three pillars,
(15:47):
Protect, connect and restore,which are kind of the mainstays of
the organization at themoment. But it's been different historically.
You know, originally it wasabout just acquiring land, acquiring
redwoods and protecting themthat way and helping establish parks
and things like that. And westill do a little bit of that, but
you know, recognizing thewhat's coming down the road. You
(16:10):
know, we have a hugecommitment to restoring forests.
So whether that's forests thatwe hold, although we don't hold a
lot of lands, butcollaborating with, with regional
parks, state parks, nationalparks, on, on, on restoring redwood
forests. And so we have anarmy of, of, you know, professional
foresters and a big scienceteam and that's what they do, you
(16:31):
know. And so, you know, wehelp advise different organizations
on, on best practices. We, wedo a lot of cultural burns with indigenous
groups and things like that,just helping to try and improve the
like fire resiliency and justthe health of these ecosystems.
And so it's an oldorganization too?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100 yearparty was, you know, a few years
(16:54):
back, but yeah.
What do you think? I mean,obviously a lot of differences, but
like is the mission relativelythe same? Is it kind of. Is there,
is there. Do you think there'sa lot of differences between what,
what you guys do now versushow it all got.
That's an interesting questionin some ways, I mean for, for sure
from the founding, but I mean,just over the decades. Yes. I mean
in the sense that, you know,there's only like you run into a
(17:17):
limit with how much land youcan acquire. Right. Like, you know,
one of the things that, youknow, over the year, over the decades,
the league is predictingsomething like 220,000 acres of redwood
forest, which is a hugeamount. We'd like to. We'd like to
get that to like 800,000.That's our. That's our 100 year plan.
And. But at a certain point,you know, land acquisition only goes
(17:37):
so far, you know, and so. Andso we've, you know, I would guess
that now versus, like in, youknow, 40 years ago, our science program
is really developed in termsof, you know, like, funding studies,
doing our own, all that sortof stuff. So it's not as much just
about buying a plot of redwoodtrees and making sure they don't
get cut down. It's much moreabout how do we establish the health
(17:58):
of the entire redwood range.And for us, that means the. All the
redwoods on the Californiacoast, but also the giant sequoia
in the Sierra. They're relatedtrees. They're both redwoods. So
we do a lot of work with thegiant sequoia as well. And so our
vision is reviving the entirerange to what it was before logging,
before industrial logging. Imean, that's the goal.
If I paint a tree red, will itcount? Will you protect it and save
(18:21):
it?
What a good question. Well,no, maybe. Come on. Is it a redwood
already?
I could make some dye in there.
It's not the color necessarilyof the tree that's important. Colin,
what are you doing?
I mean, we didn't even talkabout your role. What would you say
you do here?
Yeah, good question. Soobviously, one of the most crucial
(18:44):
parts of. It's a nonprofit.You know, one of the crucial parts
is getting your message out.So that's what. That's what I do.
So I get to. I get to. It's.It's incredible. I get to write about
my favorite trees and myfavorite places in the world. So
in some ways, it's anextension of what I've always done
where I just, you know, I'vebeen really fortunate to cover the
things that I care about themost. And this is. This is that again.
So.
(19:05):
Right.
We just wrapped up. Well, wedidn't just wrap it up. It just arrived
in the mail today. For me,Redwoods magazine, we make. We used
to do two a year. We do. Wedid one this year. I don't know if
we're gonna do two next yearor not. Covering all the work that
we've done in the years pastalso just fun stories, just generally
speaking. And so like that.That just. That just showed up. We
give it to all of our members.So, you know, if you want to read
(19:28):
more of My work. Become amember of, say, the Red Ones League.
Get the magazine in the mail.
Is. Is it? Well, we just gotdone saying that there's no more
outdoor stories to tell.Right. So there's clearly stories
to tell from the conservationworld, though it's a little different
because it's purpose drivenfor 100%.
Yeah. And it's also, we'realso not, it's not like that's the
other thing too. It's not likea daily fire hose of news that you
either have to cover orresponsible for pumping out. You
(19:49):
know, we tell a story when weneed to tell a story.
Are you hoping Killian Journeyeventually climbs a redwoods so you
can write about it?
The worlds collide. Yeah, heclimbed all the redwoods, fashion
anyone's ever done. I mean,that would be pretty.
He's probably already donethat. Let's be honest. You know,
he didn't decide to talk aboutthat one.
No, there's, I mean, there,like, there's, there's so much. I
mean, it's, it. I mean,there's. People study these forests
(20:10):
their entire lives, you know,so there's, there's just so much
and it's just different. It'snot, you know, it's, it's, it's hard
to explain. It's. It's justeverything about it is more meaningful,
impactful. And there's areason that you're writing every
story rather. You're notchasing traffic, you're not chasing
clicks, nothing like that.
No, I mean, and this, thisword may sound like I'm trying to
cheapen it, but it's not,it's, it's a little, it's edutainment
(20:30):
in a way. Right. It's kind oflike you, you really, you're learning
something while you're alsokind of being entertained. And there's
something, there's somethingspecial about it and it's like fascinating,
but also like, oh, this is,this is something that kind of is,
you know, elevating my app.My, my outdoorsy knowledge as well
as my science knowledge.
Well, sure. I mean, like, Ithink all of us want to know more
about the areas that we, thatwe, that we recreate and that we
love. I mean, I was just up in the.
(20:50):
Yeah. Sierra.
The last week, you know, I didwhat I always do, which is like,
immediately just bone up onthat. On that place. Who were the
first people to come here?Who, you know, like, what were they
doing? Like, why is this here?Why are these roads here? Why are
these places called this like,what happened, you know, because
I love spending time there andriding bikes where I was and paddling
the lakes and all that stuff.I want to know everything about it.
(21:10):
So it means the same thing here.
Well, Kelly was saying you,you have. I mean, honestly, man,
you made a career out of like,passionate things pretty much from
the get go. Even if that isarchaeology, which you didn't have
to have a degree for, that'samazing to know. But also to get
into as a lifelong surfer,well, you had to have a degree. You
don't have to have anarcheology degree.
Connections, you know, exactlyhow many times have you seen Indiana
Jones? Can you hum the theme?Can you get the jokes? Can you get
(21:35):
the reference, rank the.
Movies for me, by the way, can you.
Have you seen enough SylvesterStallone movies to make it through
an entire day digging holeswhere all you have to talk about
is like your favorite 80smovies? Like, if you can do all that,
you can beat archaeologist.
I'd be a great archaeologist.Having all the qualifications. Oh,
my God, I missed my call.
100%. No, they're alwayslooking, always looking for somebody
(21:57):
to dig a hole.
Well, the point is, like,you've been able to kind of take
your passions and turn theminto your career. Right. Your life.
I wouldn't do it any othermagazine, frankly. That's. Why would
you not?
Well, right. And so this isjust another example of that. So
I think, you know, beyond justbringing, you know, my friend and
a former voice. Not a former,but a voice that the listeners will
recognize, you know, what'sadvice you would give listeners,
(22:17):
right? To get involved insomething they're passionate about.
I mean, like, because itwasn't, you know, it still took you
a minute to figure this oneout too, after doing a lot of other
interesting things as well. Imean, is there something you wish
you had known?
In some ways, it's hard. Thisis such a personal question because
I've had such a personal, likea unique upbringing and environment
(22:38):
to where I didn't have anybodyI could disappoint. I didn't have
any expectations, you know,I've basically been on my own since
I was 16 years old. So Iliterally, at no point other than
like the crowd have I thoughtabout what other people think. So
it's. It's just different. Inever expected to be a writer, you
know, I really didn't. I guessmy first career choice was professor.
(23:01):
And you know, along the way, I.
Really been a good professor, sure.
But there's like nine jobsevery year for professors. In the
entire country, you know?Yeah, right. And I didn't want to
be in school anymore, sowriting made sense. I loved surfing,
you know, so I reached out topeople that, that did that, you know,
I didn't. I knew I didn't wantto pour beer anymore. I knew I wasn't
(23:23):
gonna. You know, I thought forother people.
To be clear to people whodidn't know that you used to be a
bartender.
Yes, I was a beer tender formany years. You know, I, I thought
I would probably go down thebeer world, which. But also I love
beer. So, like, that wouldhave also worked. I just, I've never
had the patience to be. To, toclock in, clock out for something
I don't like to do. I've justnever. I've never. I've just never
(23:43):
done that.
Yeah.
And so I guess that would be.The advice would be unless your singular
joy in life is clowning orsomething, you know, like, it's,
It's. I don't know. I mean, Ijust feel like you keep your options
open and you, and you and youmove toward the things that, that,
that excite you, you know? Andthen for me, that's always been surfing
(24:05):
and being outdoors and, andprotecting the places that I love.
And so I guess had I exhaustedall those possibilities, then maybe
I go work for Google or, youknow, like, or whatever, you know.
I don't know. I don't. I don'treally. Who knows why people choose
to do what they do? But I'venever been motivated by money specifically,
and I've never had thepatience to spend all day doing something
(24:28):
I don't want to do. So it'skind of just kind of worked.
Which of your jobs affordedyou the most flexibility to go surfing?
Working at Server magazine, asyou probably expect. I mean, that
was pretty sweet. That waspretty sweet. I mean, it was like
three articles a week, I thinkwas my, on my, my first retainer
gig. I think it was threearticles a week. And then one feature
(24:50):
in each magazine was my role.And so if I wrote three articles
on Monday, hello Santa Cruzfor four days, you know, like, it
would just surf whenever Iwanted. And like, also, hey, I can't
turn that in because it's.Firing is always a good excuse to
Surfer magazine or was. Sure.Yeah. So, you know, that was pretty.
That one was. Yeah, pretty good.
(25:11):
How's the Ocean beach summerschool for you right now?
Don't know, don't care. Don't.
What?
No, just don't. I just. Youhaven't been surfing no, no. Talk
to a big game about, like,falling in love with it again or
just. Yeah, whatever.
But now you're so calm andrelaxed and content.
This is.
This is crazy. I'm so. We'reso happy for you, man.
I mean, not surfing is a goodway to be calm and content and relaxed,
(25:34):
right? I mean, if I didn'thave mountain biking, I don't know
what I would do.
But you're not riding your Ebike anymore, are you?
Hell yeah, dude. Hell yeah.
I ranted hard about it. Hasn'tcome out yet, but you'll hear it
on Wednesday.
You're kind of an idiot.
I mean, I get so mad at a packof E bikers.
Well, sure, A pack of. I'llget mad at a pack of any cyclists.
(25:54):
Pack of anybody.
I mean, I'm currently goingthrough a full on, like, fuck E bikes
mode.
Why you don't have one is partof the reason I never will. You know
what else you're never gonnado? Ride two laps of where I wrote
on Sunday because you can't doit on a regular bike.
Why is that a plus?
Why is riding more fun trailsa plus?
(26:15):
Why is riding further? Whocares? I still get out and rode for
three hours. You rode forthree hours. I got to do multiple
laps.
Super fun downhill. Multiplelaps that I wouldn't be able to do
on a regular bike because Iwouldn't have had the time.
I got rid of my. I got rid ofthe Timberjack. I'm only riding the
fully rigid karate Monkeyright now.
Good Lord.
Fully. I'm going to turn itinto a single speaker.
(26:35):
It's going to turn into aRivendell before you even know.
I'm going to see if there'sany ways to take while you're riding
these days.
Or can you see with all themustache wax getting in your eyes.
Well, I can tell you that youare the whole. I speak for Dave and
Doug and Shantae. Oh, andeverybody. We all love you and Messini
(26:57):
as often as we used to. Andwe're proud of you and we're happy
that you're doing things thatare making you happy.
Well, I am lurking. You know,I do lurk.
Hey, man, you swooped in on myLinkedIn page this week. It was great.
Yeah, I'll do that from timeto time. And I'm listening to all
the shows, so, you know, yougot notes. I'm kind of saving all
my notes for, like, a six.
Justin's not just. You'regonna be hearing Justin again. Don't
worry, he's.
(27:17):
Well, once that appearance feegets gets all wrangled.
Yeah, well, I'm working withthe league.
Okay, great.
When are you gonna form theleague softball team? That's what
I want to know. I figured thatwas the last one.
I did notice on my colleague'sdesk this morning, she had a trophy
that was skeeball championSave the Redwoods League. So apparently
(27:39):
there was a skeeballtournament at some point.
Hey, man. Good seeing you.
Yeah, you too. Good. Good tohear my own voice on the Rock Fight
again.
I'm glad you dusted the micoff. It looks good.
Yeah, yeah. I'll dust it offagain in six months.
All right, that's the show. Wewant your emails, send them to myrockfightmail.com,
the Rock Fight's a productionof Rock Fight LLC for our good friend
(28:02):
Justin Hausman. I'm ColinTrue. Thanks for listening and here
to take us out, it's KristaMakes with the Rock Fight Fight song.
We'll see you next time, Rock fighters.
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rockfight. Rock fight. Roc. Rock Bike.
Rock Fight. Welcome to theRock Bike? Where we speak our truth.
(28:23):
Slay sacred cows and sometimesagree to disagree. We talk about
human powered outdooractivities and big bites about topics
that we find interesting likepop culture, music, the latest movie
reviews, ideas that aim forthe this is where we speak our truth.
(28:44):
This is where we speak ourtruth. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock
fight. Welcome to the Rockfight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome
to the Rock flight. Rockflight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock
fight. Rock fight. Welcome tothe Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock
(29:06):
fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
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