September 19, 2025 • 39 mins
Today Colin sits down with Lindsay Shumlas, CEO of Cotopaxi, for a conversation about the brand’s evolution, impact, and future.
What we cover:
- How Cotopaxi sees itself today: outdoor brand, lifestyle brand, or both?
- The role of iconic products in a market that’s shifting toward versatility and lifestyle.
- The future of Del Día and Más Vida, Cotopaxi’s sustainability-driven product lines.
- Why resale and circularity matter for the outdoor industry.
- How Cotopaxi is planning for growth across wholesale, D2C, and international markets.
- Shumlas’ 5-year vision: Cotopaxi as a household name, known as much for impact as for bold gear.
Cotopaxi has taken its share of rocks on The Rock Fight which makes this open conversation even more exciting. Lindsay showed up ready for the fight and to talk about whether “doing good” can coexist with growth.
Thanks for listening! The Rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight, LLC.
Sign up for NEWS FROM THE FRONT, Rock Fight's semi-weekly newsletter by heading to www.rockfight.co and clicking Join The Mailing List.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
This just in. Breaking newsfrom the Rock Fight. A group of San
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(00:23):
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(00:46):
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(01:08):
You know, maybe it's time tomake a little room for the goat in
your store.
Rock Fight. Rock Fight. RockFight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock
Fight.
Welcome to the Rock Fightwhere we speak our truth, slay sacred
cows and sometimes agree todisagree. This is an outdoor podcast
that aims for the head. I'mColin True and today we are looking
(01:31):
at the future of Code Epoxy astheir CEO Lindsay Shumlis joins the
show. But first, someprogramming reminders. Be sure to
come back to the show onMonday to join me and the Monday
boys. Owen Comerford andproducer Dave Some big news coming
out on this week's Mondayepisode. You're going to want to
check that out. Then onTuesday you're going to open the
container with DougSchnitzbahn. This week's guest with
Doug is actually a former RockFight guest, Chris Kaise. He's going
(01:53):
to be talking about Republicand then on Thursday at All New Gear
Abbey. Join Chante Salibairand me as well actually on that podcast
that comes out next Thursday.You don't miss that. If you want
to get more out of your RockFight experience, head over to Rockfight
Co and sign up for ournewsletter which comes out every
so often when I get around tomaking it, and it's pretty damn good
when it does, so you don'twant to miss the next one. When's
(02:14):
it going to come out? I don'tknow, but pretty soon. Also, make
sure you send us your emails,send them to myrockfightmail.com
and head over to Instagram andfollow us where we are. Rock Fight
Fight Co. Okay. In the springof 2024, we released an episode of
the Rock Fight called CodeEpoxy. Doing good or Just an Outdoor
Trendy Vibe? And in thatepisode, I talked about how our iconic
(02:35):
outdoor brands came to marketin prominence on the back of innovation
and established their legacywith an enduring iconic product.
And in that episode, Iquestioned if Code Epoxy, which no
matter your opinion on them,has to be viewed as one of the more
promising recent examples of anew brand to gain their own prominence
in the outdoor space and couldeventually join the ranks of Patagonia,
the North Face, or MountainHardware, given how they have positioned
(02:58):
themselves and their productline. So here's a quick snippet from
that episode in case you don'twant to go back and listen to the
whole thing. And what I'mtrying to say is that Cotapoxy is
building their brand on Vibe.Their early days investment in young
consumers with the Questivalseems to have bought some goodwill
and the market has respondedwell to their color blocking aesthetic.
But as they mature, what isgoing to carry them? Trends run out.
(03:21):
And like I asked my co hostJustin Hausman in Monday's episode
of the Rock Fight, if you werein the market for a basic black puffy,
why would you choose coatEpoxies over anyone else's? Since
that time, I've been able tohave multiple chats with the food
at Cotapoxy about who they areand what their plans are. And here
on the Rock Fight, I thinkwe've been pretty equal in both our
criticism of the Cotapoxy. Youknow, the criticism coming on things
(03:42):
like products, maybe theirtrade show setup, but also our praise
of the brand. I mean, thebrand made our top five apparel brands
earlier this year. So todaywe're finally able to get Lindsey
Shumless, COT Epoxy CEO, tocome on and talk about both the questions
I've had for a while and alsotake a look at what CodePoxy will
be doing in the future. Sowelcome back to the rockflight, where
(04:03):
today we're taking thetemperature of codepoxy with Lindsey
Shumlis. All right, we're heretoday with Lindsay Shumlis, the CEO
of CodePoxy. After a longtime, we're making it happen. Welcome
to the show, Lindsay.
Thank you, Colin. I'm. I lovethat we're doing this. I'm super
excited to Be here. We've beentalking about it for a while and
I'm glad we made it happen. SoI'm excited to share more about Cotopaxi,
(04:27):
our impact and where we're headed.
And I want all other CEOs inthe industry to take note. Lindsay's
here. That's the open invitefor you to match her vibe and her
energy and come on the rockfight and talk about what's going
on at your brand. Reach out.We want to talk to you. You're taking
one for the team here becauseCotapoxy, you get on the receiving
end of some rocks from us.You've also gotten some latitude,
(04:48):
some compliments, but, youknow, you're to talk, which is awesome.
It's the way it should be.
We have, we have. I mean, youknow, we've made some of your top
lists. We've been called outfor a few things, so. But you know,
Colin, you've been great and,you know, we've had a nice rapport
back and forth, so I'm excitedto share more.
We don't get better withoutcriticism. Us too. Right? You gotta,
(05:09):
you gotta, like, take somelumps every once in a while. I'm
like, oh, yeah, we shouldprobably not do that. So that's the
way it should go.
But, well, I think it's goodto, you know, there's some accountability
on the industry. Right. Soit's actually good. It's positive,
I think, for all of us to haveopen dialogue about where we are
and where we're going.
So back spring of 2024, I didan episode called Cotopoxy Doing
Good or Just a Trendy OutdoorVibe. And the point of that episode,
(05:31):
I really want to take a lookat what cotopoxy was doing to establish
itself as a modern outdoorbrand. Right. Comparing it to the
Patagonias in the north, facesof the world, kind of once you sort
of establish the modernoutdoor industry. Because at least
at the time, it felt likecodapoxy was trying to kind of position
themselves upon the launch ofthe brand alongside those types of
brands. And if I fast forwardto today, I'm not sure that's the
(05:52):
case anymore. And that's kindof what I want to dig into. But you've
been at the brand for about 18months now. You know, from your point
of view, what is thepositioning of cotapoxy? Like, are
you guys a traditional outdoorbrand? Are you an outdoor leaning
fashion brand, a travel brand?Like, how do you view what the brand
is?
Well, I'm Glad we're startingwith this question. And spring of
24 was actually right when Ihad started with the brand. So I
(06:14):
see you can take.
There's no responsibility foranything. I was observing at that
time way before you.
I did, but I did. I did hearabout it, obviously, and listened
intently, and I think that wasthe start of our dialogue coming
on here at some point. But toanswer your question, since our founding,
we believe the outdoors shouldbe joyful, accessible, and also delivering
(06:37):
on performance and creatingimpact. So for us, adventure and
doing good have to go hand inhand. I don't think we've ever fit
the traditional outdoor mold,and I would say that's by design.
So from day one, we werefocused on blending outdoor energy
with lifestyle versatility.And I would say, Colin, we're a proud
(06:59):
outlier. We're built forpeople who love getting outside but
might not see themselves asoutdoorsy. And while a lot of brands
are now chasing crossoverappeal, that's always been our lane.
Right.
So I don't think the future ofoutdoor is really about being the
most hardcore. I truly believeit's about being the most welcoming
(07:23):
and providing a positiveexperience in whatever the outdoors
experience really means toyou. So we know that the industry
is shifting and the growth inthis industry is really happening
in lifestyle. Inclusivity,purpose. And we've always had authenticity
(07:44):
and optimism at the core ofwho we are. And I'm incredibly proud
to be one of the brands that'sleading that shift. So whether you're
hiking a local trail, you'reexploring your own city, you know,
the brand has always beenabout inviting everyone into that
adventure. And I truly believethat's what sets us apart. You know,
(08:07):
I've heard you talk on theRock Fight podcast about the COVID
up, the logo test. I don'tremember which episode. That was
probably like a thousand atthis point, but yeah, yeah, maybe,
maybe. But it was one of myfavorites because if you truly applied
that to Cotopaxi, you'd stillknow our products are ours. So we're
(08:28):
not and haven't been thisfaceless, interchangeable brand.
We stand for something realand we always have. And we make real,
deliberate sacrifices to staytrue to our mission. And we're going
to continue to focus and helplead a do good movement, showing
(08:48):
that business can and shouldbe a force for good in the world.
And we're truly inclusive andwelcome and listen to customer feedback.
We've had our fuego downjacket. I think you talked about
it maybe in that spring 24,spring of 24 on that podcast, actually.
(09:10):
So, you know, it's got thetraditional color blocking and it's
versatile. After a lot ofcustomer feedback and thoughtful
design, we've completelyrevamped it so better fabrics, smarter
fit, fully sustainable, andmore personality than ever. So, again,
I think it's probably worthtrying that jacket, Colin. But we've
(09:32):
always, like I said, we'vealways kind of been between, I would
say, a traditional outdoorbrand and a versatile lifestyle brand,
and we're going to continue todouble down there.
Yeah, I think that jacket was,I think, at the heart of it, because
that episode was actuallyspawned after. Out of talking, as
I recall, a rep buddy of minewho was kind of made a comment of
(09:56):
when the trend moves on, maybethe color blocking sort of trend
maybe moves on. What's next?What's the thing that you kind of
hang your hat on? And that'swhy I was bringing. It was an interesting
other thought experiment whenif you look again at the old guy
kind of point of view in theindustry of, well, you think Patagonia,
you think Cinchilla. If youthink the North Face, you think the
Nuptse, the. Or the Denali orwhatever. What's code, epoxies. And
(10:19):
it was sort of like, hey,would you guys be at risk if the
trend's like, okay, we're notdoing that anymore. Like, so why
would I buy a coat of a coat.Epoxy piece? And I think in the.
That was sort of the thoughtexperiment I was having to lead to
that episode. But I think, youknow, and we're going to get into
it a second. I want to ask youabout the broader category, but do
you think it's actually, Iguess, either necessary or important
to have almost that iconicproduct anymore? I don't necessarily
(10:41):
think that it is. I thinkthere was a time when you did. You
needed to have that sort oflike North Star, like, you want to
know what we're about. That'sit. Do you think that's even like,
do you need that these days?
Well, I think you needproducts that, you know, you've built
equity and in that customerstrust you for. I do, yeah. And, you
know, that's why, if you lookat my fuego example that we just
(11:01):
talked about, we've nowdeveloped that into a much more modern
fit. Is it the sametraditional three stripes? No, but
it's carrying on thattraditional namesake. Namesake that
we've always had that ourcustomers love, but in a new modernized
fit that I would say hasevolved but doesn't walk away from.
The core of that jacket.
(11:23):
Yeah. Because I mean, and it'sfunny you mentioned too, thinking
about when one of my firstmeetings actually I ever took when
I was at Polar Tech was withCJ at this kitchen table in Sugar
House in Salt Lake City.
I love that.
Right. As codepox, he'sgetting ready to launch. Right. And
I tell that story of like,that was what was interesting about
working for Polar Tech. CauseI had like those kinds of meetings.
And you meet with really bigbrands too. But you know, at that
(11:46):
time there were. There werebasically there were outdoor brands
and lifestyle brands and thenoutdoor brands who had lifestyle
products. So it totally makessense that the early days of Davis
and CJ and the crew therewould want the brand to lean more
on outdoor. 1 want to kind ofposition. You don't want to be like,
hey, we're American Eagle withbetter fabrics. Like, no, we're.
We're an outdoor brand. Wewant to have like a function and
(12:07):
a purpose to exist. But sincethen, the participation in the outdoor
space has grown significantly.Right. Thanks, Covid. And everything
else along the way, as well asjust kind of generally gaining steam.
And it's expanded to includemore casual participants. And it's
kind of led to develop what Icall the 85% brands, sort of outdoor
brands that can cover for youabout 85% of what you want to do
outside. But they're never,they're not even interested in having
(12:30):
a pinnacle, top of themountain, like super technical, like
all the bells and whistles,you know, you see spun sponsored
athletes kind of products. Sothe band, you know, like I think
of like the Howler Brothers,the passengers, hiker kinds, that
kind of thing. I mean, do yousee that as a significant development
happening in the industry,especially as the outdoor demographic
sort of evolves?
(12:51):
Absolutely. I mean, I see thatas probably one of the biggest shifts
and most significantdevelopments in outdoor right now.
I mean, the, you know, back toyour point on Covid, Right. The growth
in participation has widenedthe tent. But I would also say that
I don't think most people needa closet full of just summit grade
gear to enjoy the outdoors. Itruly believe that customers want
(13:14):
versatile, functional andexpressive products that feel authentic
to how they actually live andnot just how they recreate. And I
actually believe this is wherethe growth is. And honestly, it's
where the cultural relevanceis too. So I like to think that the
future of the outdoor industryis less about only being technical
(13:35):
and more about beingaccessible, inclusive, and honestly,
optimistic. So, you know, ofcourse you still have to have performance
features. We have. We alwayswill. But you know, Colin, I'm really
proud that we're at theforefront of that evolution. And
when I want consumers and youknow, people that recognize the llama
(14:00):
and think of Cotopaxi, I wantthem to expect to see us on the trail
and on the slopes, but alsoequally expecting us to be in an
airport, on campus, at acoffee shop. So we're going to be
joining customers onadventures big and small and we'll
continue to do that.
(14:20):
Do you pay attention to someof the core versus casual discourse
that exists in places likeLinkedIn and stuff like that and
these sort of old guard whoare clinging to what the outdoors
is supposed to be or is thatat all across, across your desk?
It does. It comes across mydesk. I mean, I pay attention to,
you know, I pay attention toit. But again, that's not really
(14:43):
influencing where we areheaded because, you know, we're staying
true to who we are and I wouldsay where we've always been. It's
like I said, it's our lane andso I'm staying focused there.
Yeah, that's the stuff that Igot to look at or I'm like, you know,
I get it. You know, we allhave the things that we hang our
hat on to define who we are.And if you kind of have Grown up
(15:07):
in the 90s, early 2000soutdoor industry and you don't like,
no one likes change. No onelooks, you know, wants to grow up
in their town and like seelike the target where the mom and
pop used to be. I get that.But it's also just so obvious like
how things are if you reallypay attention, if you see that a
lot of the interesting likeproduct growth happening outside
of the larger outdoor brands,like what's happening on like you
(15:30):
know, if you know, to invokeLloyd Vogel, the garage grown gear
world, like the smallercottage industry, like small niche
brands, like that's where alot of the really interesting things
are happening. And so thethings that people I think are complaining
about are often actuallyhappening. If you just kind of look
in different places, they are.
I completely agree with you.And I think that's the opportunity
for us to you know, see whatbrands the consumer is engaging with
(15:55):
and you know, meeting thecustomer where they are. And I think
that's really, I think that'sreally important for our industry.
Right.
Is the questival going to comeback? I don't know.
I will tell you this, 2026 is.It's got a lot of exciting things
ahead. So we'll see theQuestival. We all love the Questival,
(16:21):
right? And I mean theinnovation from Davis and CJ and
Stefan around the Questable isjust, you know, I mean, I get chills
every time I watch one of thevideos and I see what they were able
to do. So, you know, there's athe Questival into ten years later
(16:45):
looks different.
Let's take a quick break tohear from today's sponsors. Just
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(17:06):
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(17:28):
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(18:57):
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(19:19):
today. And now back to theshow. Well, so we mentioned at the
top, it's been a bit of arollercoaster for you guys here on
the Rockflight. You made ourtop five apparel brand which was
a big deal. Loved that. Butthen you showed up kind of low score
on the Owen index, which wedid a few weeks ago, which kind of
put measures the brand'spositive engagement with their retail
partners. So with all thatkind of in mind, what are your priorities?
(19:42):
As we were looking ahead to 26and we're not going to mention the
T word and our currentpresidential administration, we're
going to assume a levelplaying field. What are fingers crossed
that we get to get to thatlevel playing field. But what are,
yeah, what are your prioritiesfor the brand in 26? Are we talking
more wholesale? D2C? All theabove. Like what are you guys focused
on?
We are, I mean it's been, youknow, an exciting 25 building for
(20:07):
the future. So our focuscontinues to remain on responsible
growth. You know, we do have astrong emphasis on building an omni
business. I believe in. I saidthis earlier about meeting the customer
where they are. So for uswe're prioritizing our E commerce
business, our full pricestores. We have tremendous international
(20:30):
growth right now, all whilethough continuing to serve our wholesale
partners. So you know, as wemove into 26, you'll see growth from
us really across all of thosechannels. There's some new wholesale
partners, there's reallybuilding, continuing to build with
our existing wholesalepartners that we truly value some
(20:51):
new stores as well. So we'reagain we're going to double down
on meeting the consumer wherethey are. I believe very much this
multi channel strategy willenable us to continue to scale our
social impact and our globalPresence from day zero. We've been
committed to, I would say, Ilike to say we're aggressive, ambitious,
(21:15):
but focused on profitablegrowth. And it's consistently allowed
us to deliver on our foundingmission of human impact, which, as
you know, is also veryimportant to us. So even during these
challenging economic times, wedid that in 2023. We gave over a
million to the Cotopaxifoundation, despite industry contraction.
(21:37):
So, you know, we're. We'regoing to exit 25 in a very healthy
position. I'm incredibly proudof, you know, what we've delivered
this year, and it's setting usup for a really strong 26. So, yeah,
there's a lot of excitingthings on the horizon, including
some new brand partnerships,some exciting launches, so you'll
(22:01):
see a lot more from us. Butstaying true to our roots and everything
you and I just talked about interms of, you know, ensuring that
we're still bringing optimism,versatility, performance will be
embedded through everythingthat we do. But it's really that
chance to meet the customerwhere they are.
That's a good point. The, youknow, there's doing well and then
(22:23):
there's doing good. That wassort of a phrase when I was at. Was
that Timberland that JeffSwartz always said of, like, you
know, and doing good wasreally important to Timberland's
point of existing back then. Iassume it still is now. Does that
resonate? I mean, obviously itresonates with anybody paying attention.
Right. And the fact of, like,what a brand does, and. And I want
to ask you about the Mosfetoresale collection in a second, but
the. Does the. Does the doinggood part of it? I mean, you know,
(22:46):
like a cynic would say, like agood lip service. Right. To a bunch
of, like, you know, people whoare environmentally minded or socially
minded. Right. But is it termsof like, is. Which, by the way, even
if. That. If it isn't, if itdoesn't resonate, doesn't mean you
shouldn't do it. Right. It'skind of like, is doing good is. Is
good all on its own, but is.How does that resonate with the consumers?
Like, what is the feedback youget from either wholesalers, consumers
or whatever about the impactthat that has?
(23:08):
Yeah, I mean, it's. It's sucha strong connection point. I mean,
we know that our, you know,our brand awareness and customer
connects very much with ourmission and our impact work. And
I think we've been very clearabout it since day one. We weave
it through, really, all of ourconsumer wholesale e Comm. Connection
(23:33):
points. And so for us, we willcontinue to double down there. You
know, I do think consumerstoday are looking for authenticity,
Colin. And, you know, yes,there's a lot of. Lot of businesses
where, you know, doing goodmeans many different things for us.
What I'm so proud of is it istruly at the core of who we are.
(23:58):
I have not seen us, as I said,even in tough economic times, waver
from that, and I think that'swhat makes it incredibly important
for us to continue. It's apart of who we are. It is the core
of the brand, and ourcustomers and our wholesale partners
understand it, and I think itsets us apart.
(24:19):
So then you have part of thekind of product side of doing good.
You have your Mos Vita, whichis resale collection. Right. Kind
of, you know, looking secondhand.
Correct.
Okay, correct. And then theDel Dia line, which is basically
dead stock, you know, productcreation. What do you want to see
come out of those things? Whatare your hopes for those two initiatives
in terms of. On the productfront as we, you know, the. The tricky
(24:40):
thing, and I've been prettyvocal about this, not just for Cotopoxy,
but in general of, you know,the. The almost hypocrisy a lot of
times with outdoor brands,like, hey, we want to save all these
places, but don't look atwhere we're making this, you know,
that kind of thing. Right. Sothose are really important initiatives
from that perspective, becauseyou put to your point, you do have
to balance out. We've stillgot to make money to exist. So what
are your hopes and dreams forthose two things specifically?
(25:01):
So first, for anyone whodoesn't know, Right. So our Del Dia
line, and I think this kind ofgoes back to the Spring 24 podcast
as well.
It's your crown jewel, man.It's so cool.
I have to go back to it. It.Right. I mean, I think it was a.
Really good podcast episode.And anyone just listening, you know,
(25:21):
we've had a lot of newlisteners since that episode came
out. Go back and listen.
Yeah, I mean, we were foundedon Deldia, right? So you talk about
innovation for Cotopaxi. Imean, this is at the core of our
product. Innovation still istoday. So we launched with Deldia.
You know, it's our connection.It's our collection of unique, bold,
(25:44):
colorful packs made 100% fromremnant materials. So, you know,
we've continued to add to thisline and evolve it. You'll actually
see a lot of evolution in thisline starting in the fourth quarter
of this Year and so more tocome. But we founded the brand with
innovation and remnantmaterials. We continue today again
(26:07):
not only in PACs, but inapparel. You've probably seen some
of our apparel lines, soyou'll see more extension in this
area. And what I love aboutDeldia is I don't know about you,
but every airport I go to,it's what I see.
You're the Hoka footwear ofbackpacks in the airport now. Like
everybody's got on their hokasin their Del Dia backpack.
(26:28):
I see it. You can't.
You do, you do see it around alot. Yeah.
You do, you do.
I've been working in thisindustry for going on 30 years and
so no one gets real excitedwhen I bring things home from a trade
show anymore. And you guysgave me a pack, had switched back.
It didn't last about 10seconds by the time I got in the
house. I think my wife tookthis. That one. Usually it's one
of the kids taking it.
Yeah, no, it's. That's true.We did. Yes. But to go back to Mos
(26:51):
Vita. So Mos Vita is ourresale recommerce program. As you
know, customers send backtheir pre loved gear. It's cleaned,
repaired and resold. So as youthink about both of those programs.
Right. We're still investedheavily in both of them. We're very
proud of our resale program.It gives customers the opportunity
(27:11):
to extend the life of theirproducts. So, you know, we've moved
from a linear take, make, sellmodel to a circular approach. And
you know, it's central to theethos of sustainable gear stewardship.
So you'll continue to see usfocus on Mos Vita and you're going
to see us continue to pushourselves on circularity. We believe
(27:34):
very much that you also haveto design for circularity and repairability.
Sure.
Yeah. As well as supportingthe, you know, the program in the
long run. So for us, it'sactually about both and ensuring
that we're always pushingourselves forward.
Okay. And this was, I think,something I mentioned probably in
that same episode. Butshouldn't they be a little more prominent
on the website where Mosfetaand Deldea are? They're not. I don't
(27:57):
think they're quite as buriedas maybe as when I made that episode.
I think they're a little more.But also I feel like, man, that is
such a cool thing to hang yourhat on on the product side. And given
the mission of the brand, thatshould just almost be like, stop
number one for anyone Poppingon the website is like these two
things.
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, MosVita is prominently featured in central
navigation on the site. We do,you know, quite a bit of consumer
(28:22):
marketing for Mos Vita interms of Del Dia. I mean it's. We
support it in our always onmarketing, so it's always heavily
featured. We direct and drivea lot of traffic to those product
and category pages, whetherthat would be in paid media, whether
it would be with ourinfluencer and ambassador partners.
(28:45):
You see a lot of it on social.But one of my most favorites actually
is I don't know the last timeyou were in one of our stores. But
we are very strategic thatDeldea is always at the front of
the store.
Nice.
And we prominently feature.It's eye catching from a color perspective.
We're unique in the market,but it's also that great conversation
(29:07):
starter with a customer new tothe brand. Because you have a story
to tell.
Right?
So yeah, I mean, quick glance,I know, I'm sure at the site it probably
doesn't, you know, you don'tsee it stand out. But we do make
sure that it's exposed. And wehave also a lot of other products
as well. So as you know, we'realways striking that balance.
When you look at resale ingeneral, and we've talked about this
(29:31):
a bunch on the show too in thelast year about like, you know, listen,
credit or credit's due ifeverybody starts their own resale
program. But also feels to melike that's not the best long term
solution is that everybody hastheir own resale. Like I want to
get a coat, epoxy, you know,resale thing, I got to go here. Versus
like, hey, how about, youknow, a store where it has all resale
items, which I know it's likethe gear trades and there's folks
(29:52):
out there who are trying to dothat. How do you see that evolving?
I mean, is that something.Where would you like to see that
evolve to where it's not sobrand specific, you know, and insular
from the larger thing? And itwould be more of a marketplace for
resale.
Yeah, I mean, we're a huge fanof that. You know, you'll probably
see. You'll see some more newsfrom us on that front coming soon.
(30:12):
But I'm very supportive of themarketplace approach and finding
partners that enable trade inreuse and repair. And little sneak
peek. We're even talking abouthow in some key markets we could
even create an experience thatis not just repairability for us,
but repairability in themarket and how do we create more
(30:35):
of that flywheel? So we'reextremely supportive and I think
you'll see some fun thingsfrom us coming soon.
I swear, Annie Igel didn't askme to ask you that.
I wonder if Annie did. And ofcourse, Annie's leading it.
I thought of her when you saidyour answer. I'm like, oh, I bet
you. I bet you that's theperson behind all of this.
It is.
(30:56):
There you go.
Annie is on the forefront of.
We're pro Annie on the rock fight.
Oh, she's amazing. And, youknow, not only leading impact, but
she leads circularity now as well.
All right. Well, actually,that was a. I like seeing those changes
and hearing stories like that.Actually, that was interesting when
we had Andrew from Livesyn onlast year, and I loved hearing that
(31:17):
base that their head ofproduct is also their head of sustainability,
because, you know, I'vedefinitely been at those brands where,
you know, the head of productis hiding as the head of sustainability
is walking down the hall like,oh, God, they're not going to let
me make the thing that I wantto make, you know, and it's like,
no, just blend the positions,man. You know what? You gotta. You
gotta. Here's. You set thegoals and you gotta achieve the goals.
I loved that. That. So seeingsome, you know, synergy there is
(31:39):
a good thing.
It is. I completely agree.
Last question on the productside, because I have to ask, because
I'm a fabric nerd, have youimproved your fleece?
Well, it's a great.
It's been a minute. I have notseen it lately, so it may not be
fair. I'm just saying it's a great.
I don't work Polar Techanymore, but.
I still am hurt when I see badpolice in the marketplace.
(32:01):
I know, I know. Well, so Ijust left Salt Lake City last week,
and I have to tell you, I hadthe most inspiring product meeting.
Just have to give credit toour amazing product team because
they are doing an amazing joband we launch all new fleece in 26.
(32:24):
So, you know, I think you'llbe excited by what you see. But yes,
it's a. It's a full relaunchof fleece. So you. You'll. We'll
still have it in the marketright now. Yeah. But you'll see that
that is great. We're unwindingand relaunching all new fleece. So
we're incredibly excited. Iknow you and I have talked about
(32:45):
what does product innovationmean? And truly, I think you're going
to see that from us not onlyin terms of. And I truly believe
we've always been innovative.We've balanced. How do we continue
to lead in sustainabilitywhile bringing the best products
(33:06):
to market. And with our boldcolor, that's a big challenge for
a team to do because we don'tsacrifice any of those things. We
deliver on all of that in ourproduct. But as we move into 26,
you'll see quite a bit moreinnovation coming from us, both in
(33:27):
fabrication, in versatility ofsilhouettes and styles, the expansion
within our packs. So there's alot. There's a lot coming that, again,
you know, carry on the. Thecore DNA of who we are, but continue
to build into, I would say,you know, the versatility our customers
(33:50):
are looking for right now.
All right, so last question.You know, like you said, 18 months
on the job, you know, you'repast the sort of, like, the honeymoon
period. You're past the whatare we going to do about this period.
You're kind of like you have ahandle on what you've got. It sounds
like you talked about a bunchof your initiatives that you have
coming up, which are exciting.So if everything works out the way
you hope today, where wouldyou like to see CodaPoxy in 5 years?
(34:10):
Where should the brand be ifeverything goes the way you would
like it to go?
Well, okay, this is myfavorite question you've asked because
I feel incredibly lucky to bein this position on the.
Rock fight, is what you mean.
Well, I'm incredibly lucky tobe here, so thank you. Yes, but,
(34:31):
you know, to be the CEO ofCotopaxi, and, you know, my vision
is to carry on Davis'sfounding dream. So first, you know,
we're going to do a lot moregood in the world. I said this earlier.
What I love about this brandis the passion. More ambitious. And
in five years, I want Cotopaxito be a household name and recognized
(34:55):
not only for the boldproducts, but for the passion and
purpose and impact that webring. So, you know, for me, leading
a company with such hugeambitions is truly a privilege. And
I believe we have anopportunity to make Cotopaxi not
just a brand people know, butone that sits at the center of culture
(35:16):
and will drive lastingrelevance and meaningful change in
the world. And I envision thatwe'll become the Go to outdoor lifestyle
brand. You know, we'll becelebrated not only for our exceptional
gear, but for the vibrantglobal community that we inspire
and our unwavering commitmentto making business a force for Good.
(35:40):
And, you know, from day one,our mission's been clear. We're going
to grow boldly yetresponsibly. And that mindset has
empowered us to delivermeaningful impact even in tough economic
climates. And, you know,continuing to give the level that
we are to the Cotopaxifoundation and continuing to do good
(36:03):
is at the core of who we are.So, you know, as we grow, we get
to do more of that. And I'mincredibly excited about that. So,
yeah, I see. I see us at thecenter of intersectional brands across
outdoor and lifestyle, and I'mreally excited to welcome more into
(36:25):
this space because I want morepeople to find themselves in the
outdoors again, whatever thatmeans to them.
Right.
And. And of course, I justhave to add this. I mean, I have
to give a huge shout out to myteam. I mean, I look across the last
18 months, as you've said, andwhat we've accomplished during that
time, and none of it wouldhave been achieved without this incredible
(36:47):
team. It's that passion, thecreativity and resilience that I
see every day. So they're alsothe ones fueling the growth and keeping
impact at the center. Andbuilding the culture is also what
makes this brand so special.So the opportunity as I look forward
to lead alongside this team isalso incredibly rewarding.
(37:10):
And if the Rock Fight is likethe outdoor industry equivalent of
coming on hot ones, Iappreciate you coming on and sitting
through it. I've said itbefore on the show, we want to just
be a bit of a mirror for theindustry because we want the industry
to be the best version ofitself. We aim for the head, but
has to come from the heart. Sowe'll lob some rocks, we'll make
(37:30):
some jokes and some criticism,but ultimately, that's how I think
things get better. Soappreciate you coming on board and
talking with me today. And,you know, we'll be excited to see
how this all comes out.Excited for new fleece, excited to
see all these things grow. Andthanks so much for joining. I really
appreciate it. Lindsay.
Well, thanks, Colin, and Iappreciate you having me on today.
All right, that's the show fortoday. Thanks to my guest, Lindsey
(37:52):
Shumlis. The Rock Fight is aproduction of Rock Fight llc. I'm
Colin True. Thanks forlistening and like I said, come back
on Monday for the Monday boys.And of course, subscribe and listen
to Open Container and GearAbbey. And now to take us out, it's
our guy, Chris Makes. He'sgoing to sing the Rock Fight Fight
song. We'll see you next timeRock fighters?
Rock fight? Rock fight? Rockfight? Rock fight? Rock fight, Rock
(38:17):
fight? Welcome to the rockfight? Where we speak our truth?
Slay sacred cows and sometimesagree to disagree? We talk about
human powered outdooractivities and big bites about topics
that we find interesting likepop culture music, the latest movie
(38:38):
reviews?
Ideas that aim for the head?
This is where we speak ourtruth? This is where we speak our
truth? Rock fight, Rock fight?Rock fight? Welcome to the rock fight?
Rock fight? Rock? Welcome tothe rock light? Rock light? Rock
fight? Rock light, Rock light,Rock fight? Welcome to the rock fight?
(39:04):
Rock fight? Rock fight, Rock fight.
This just in. Breaking newsfrom the Rock Fight. A group of San
Francisco based tech investorshave announced they are launching
a subscription basedpublishing ecosystem of adult themed
outdoor magazines. Gear Hunkyplus will debut this spring with
an orgy of coverage of allthings uncovered outside. The first
issue will feature AlexiHandhold's attempt at the first clothing
(00:23):
free solo of El Capitan inYosemite, complete with centerfold
listicles and affiliate links.Gearhunky plus glossy full color
print editions harken back toa day when people had to pay for
their adult outdoor content orfind it in the woods behind their
house like everyone else.While that may not be true, you know
what is true? Ibex Merino isas home in your shop as duct tape
(00:46):
on Denali. We're talkingauthentic heritage, real sustainability,
privately owned and of coursepremium performance that has become
legendary. From everydayessentials like the Goatee to expedition
ready pieces like the Mammothhoodie, Ibex has a premium Merino
lair ready to outfit any ofyour customers. Schedule some time
with their team at GEOAConnect in Kansas City this November.
(01:08):
You know, maybe it's time tomake a little room for the goat in
your store.
Rock Fight. Rock Fight. RockFight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock
Fight.
Welcome to the Rock Fightwhere we speak our truth, slay sacred
cows and sometimes agree todisagree. This is an outdoor podcast
that aims for the head. I'mColin True and today we are looking
(01:31):
at the future of Code Epoxy astheir CEO Lindsay Shumlis joins the
show. But first, someprogramming reminders. Be sure to
come back to the show onMonday to join me and the Monday
boys. Owen Comerford andproducer Dave Some big news coming
out on this week's Mondayepisode. You're going to want to
check that out. Then onTuesday you're going to open the
container with DougSchnitzbahn. This week's guest with
Doug is actually a former RockFight guest, Chris Kaise. He's going
(01:53):
to be talking about Republicand then on Thursday at All New Gear
Abbey. Join Chante Salibairand me as well actually on that podcast
that comes out next Thursday.You don't miss that. If you want
to get more out of your RockFight experience, head over to Rockfight
Co and sign up for ournewsletter which comes out every
so often when I get around tomaking it, and it's pretty damn good
when it does, so you don'twant to miss the next one. When's
(02:14):
it going to come out? I don'tknow, but pretty soon. Also, make
sure you send us your emails,send them to myrockfightmail.com
and head over to Instagram andfollow us where we are. Rock Fight
Fight Co. Okay. In the springof 2024, we released an episode of
the Rock Fight called CodeEpoxy. Doing good or Just an Outdoor
Trendy Vibe? And in thatepisode, I talked about how our iconic
(02:35):
outdoor brands came to marketin prominence on the back of innovation
and established their legacywith an enduring iconic product.
And in that episode, Iquestioned if Code Epoxy, which no
matter your opinion on them,has to be viewed as one of the more
promising recent examples of anew brand to gain their own prominence
in the outdoor space and couldeventually join the ranks of Patagonia,
the North Face, or MountainHardware, given how they have positioned
(02:58):
themselves and their productline. So here's a quick snippet from
that episode in case you don'twant to go back and listen to the
whole thing. And what I'mtrying to say is that Cotapoxy is
building their brand on Vibe.Their early days investment in young
consumers with the Questivalseems to have bought some goodwill
and the market has respondedwell to their color blocking aesthetic.
But as they mature, what isgoing to carry them? Trends run out.
(03:21):
And like I asked my co hostJustin Hausman in Monday's episode
of the Rock Fight, if you werein the market for a basic black puffy,
why would you choose coatEpoxies over anyone else's? Since
that time, I've been able tohave multiple chats with the food
at Cotapoxy about who they areand what their plans are. And here
on the Rock Fight, I thinkwe've been pretty equal in both our
criticism of the Cotapoxy. Youknow, the criticism coming on things
(03:42):
like products, maybe theirtrade show setup, but also our praise
of the brand. I mean, thebrand made our top five apparel brands
earlier this year. So todaywe're finally able to get Lindsey
Shumless, COT Epoxy CEO, tocome on and talk about both the questions
I've had for a while and alsotake a look at what CodePoxy will
be doing in the future. Sowelcome back to the rockflight, where
(04:03):
today we're taking thetemperature of codepoxy with Lindsey
Shumlis. All right, we're heretoday with Lindsay Shumlis, the CEO
of CodePoxy. After a longtime, we're making it happen. Welcome
to the show, Lindsay.
Thank you, Colin. I'm. I lovethat we're doing this. I'm super
excited to Be here. We've beentalking about it for a while and
I'm glad we made it happen. SoI'm excited to share more about Cotopaxi,
(04:27):
our impact and where we're headed.
And I want all other CEOs inthe industry to take note. Lindsay's
here. That's the open invitefor you to match her vibe and her
energy and come on the rockfight and talk about what's going
on at your brand. Reach out.We want to talk to you. You're taking
one for the team here becauseCotapoxy, you get on the receiving
end of some rocks from us.You've also gotten some latitude,
(04:48):
some compliments, but, youknow, you're to talk, which is awesome.
It's the way it should be.
We have, we have. I mean, youknow, we've made some of your top
lists. We've been called outfor a few things, so. But you know,
Colin, you've been great and,you know, we've had a nice rapport
back and forth, so I'm excitedto share more.
We don't get better withoutcriticism. Us too. Right? You gotta,
(05:09):
you gotta, like, take somelumps every once in a while. I'm
like, oh, yeah, we shouldprobably not do that. So that's the
way it should go.
But, well, I think it's goodto, you know, there's some accountability
on the industry. Right. Soit's actually good. It's positive,
I think, for all of us to haveopen dialogue about where we are
and where we're going.
So back spring of 2024, I didan episode called Cotopoxy Doing
Good or Just a Trendy OutdoorVibe. And the point of that episode,
(05:31):
I really want to take a lookat what cotopoxy was doing to establish
itself as a modern outdoorbrand. Right. Comparing it to the
Patagonias in the north, facesof the world, kind of once you sort
of establish the modernoutdoor industry. Because at least
at the time, it felt likecodapoxy was trying to kind of position
themselves upon the launch ofthe brand alongside those types of
brands. And if I fast forwardto today, I'm not sure that's the
(05:52):
case anymore. And that's kindof what I want to dig into. But you've
been at the brand for about 18months now. You know, from your point
of view, what is thepositioning of cotapoxy? Like, are
you guys a traditional outdoorbrand? Are you an outdoor leaning
fashion brand, a travel brand?Like, how do you view what the brand
is?
Well, I'm Glad we're startingwith this question. And spring of
24 was actually right when Ihad started with the brand. So I
(06:14):
see you can take.
There's no responsibility foranything. I was observing at that
time way before you.
I did, but I did. I did hearabout it, obviously, and listened
intently, and I think that wasthe start of our dialogue coming
on here at some point. But toanswer your question, since our founding,
we believe the outdoors shouldbe joyful, accessible, and also delivering
(06:37):
on performance and creatingimpact. So for us, adventure and
doing good have to go hand inhand. I don't think we've ever fit
the traditional outdoor mold,and I would say that's by design.
So from day one, we werefocused on blending outdoor energy
with lifestyle versatility.And I would say, Colin, we're a proud
(06:59):
outlier. We're built forpeople who love getting outside but
might not see themselves asoutdoorsy. And while a lot of brands
are now chasing crossoverappeal, that's always been our lane.
Right.
So I don't think the future ofoutdoor is really about being the
most hardcore. I truly believeit's about being the most welcoming
(07:23):
and providing a positiveexperience in whatever the outdoors
experience really means toyou. So we know that the industry
is shifting and the growth inthis industry is really happening
in lifestyle. Inclusivity,purpose. And we've always had authenticity
(07:44):
and optimism at the core ofwho we are. And I'm incredibly proud
to be one of the brands that'sleading that shift. So whether you're
hiking a local trail, you'reexploring your own city, you know,
the brand has always beenabout inviting everyone into that
adventure. And I truly believethat's what sets us apart. You know,
(08:07):
I've heard you talk on theRock Fight podcast about the COVID
up, the logo test. I don'tremember which episode. That was
probably like a thousand atthis point, but yeah, yeah, maybe,
maybe. But it was one of myfavorites because if you truly applied
that to Cotopaxi, you'd stillknow our products are ours. So we're
(08:28):
not and haven't been thisfaceless, interchangeable brand.
We stand for something realand we always have. And we make real,
deliberate sacrifices to staytrue to our mission. And we're going
to continue to focus and helplead a do good movement, showing
(08:48):
that business can and shouldbe a force for good in the world.
And we're truly inclusive andwelcome and listen to customer feedback.
We've had our fuego downjacket. I think you talked about
it maybe in that spring 24,spring of 24 on that podcast, actually.
(09:10):
So, you know, it's got thetraditional color blocking and it's
versatile. After a lot ofcustomer feedback and thoughtful
design, we've completelyrevamped it so better fabrics, smarter
fit, fully sustainable, andmore personality than ever. So, again,
I think it's probably worthtrying that jacket, Colin. But we've
(09:32):
always, like I said, we'vealways kind of been between, I would
say, a traditional outdoorbrand and a versatile lifestyle brand,
and we're going to continue todouble down there.
Yeah, I think that jacket was,I think, at the heart of it, because
that episode was actuallyspawned after. Out of talking, as
I recall, a rep buddy of minewho was kind of made a comment of
(09:56):
when the trend moves on, maybethe color blocking sort of trend
maybe moves on. What's next?What's the thing that you kind of
hang your hat on? And that'swhy I was bringing. It was an interesting
other thought experiment whenif you look again at the old guy
kind of point of view in theindustry of, well, you think Patagonia,
you think Cinchilla. If youthink the North Face, you think the
Nuptse, the. Or the Denali orwhatever. What's code, epoxies. And
(10:19):
it was sort of like, hey,would you guys be at risk if the
trend's like, okay, we're notdoing that anymore. Like, so why
would I buy a coat of a coat.Epoxy piece? And I think in the.
That was sort of the thoughtexperiment I was having to lead to
that episode. But I think, youknow, and we're going to get into
it a second. I want to ask youabout the broader category, but do
you think it's actually, Iguess, either necessary or important
to have almost that iconicproduct anymore? I don't necessarily
(10:41):
think that it is. I thinkthere was a time when you did. You
needed to have that sort oflike North Star, like, you want to
know what we're about. That'sit. Do you think that's even like,
do you need that these days?
Well, I think you needproducts that, you know, you've built
equity and in that customerstrust you for. I do, yeah. And, you
know, that's why, if you lookat my fuego example that we just
(11:01):
talked about, we've nowdeveloped that into a much more modern
fit. Is it the sametraditional three stripes? No, but
it's carrying on thattraditional namesake. Namesake that
we've always had that ourcustomers love, but in a new modernized
fit that I would say hasevolved but doesn't walk away from.
The core of that jacket.
(11:23):
Yeah. Because I mean, and it'sfunny you mentioned too, thinking
about when one of my firstmeetings actually I ever took when
I was at Polar Tech was withCJ at this kitchen table in Sugar
House in Salt Lake City.
I love that.
Right. As codepox, he'sgetting ready to launch. Right. And
I tell that story of like,that was what was interesting about
working for Polar Tech. CauseI had like those kinds of meetings.
And you meet with really bigbrands too. But you know, at that
(11:46):
time there were. There werebasically there were outdoor brands
and lifestyle brands and thenoutdoor brands who had lifestyle
products. So it totally makessense that the early days of Davis
and CJ and the crew therewould want the brand to lean more
on outdoor. 1 want to kind ofposition. You don't want to be like,
hey, we're American Eagle withbetter fabrics. Like, no, we're.
We're an outdoor brand. Wewant to have like a function and
(12:07):
a purpose to exist. But sincethen, the participation in the outdoor
space has grown significantly.Right. Thanks, Covid. And everything
else along the way, as well asjust kind of generally gaining steam.
And it's expanded to includemore casual participants. And it's
kind of led to develop what Icall the 85% brands, sort of outdoor
brands that can cover for youabout 85% of what you want to do
outside. But they're never,they're not even interested in having
(12:30):
a pinnacle, top of themountain, like super technical, like
all the bells and whistles,you know, you see spun sponsored
athletes kind of products. Sothe band, you know, like I think
of like the Howler Brothers,the passengers, hiker kinds, that
kind of thing. I mean, do yousee that as a significant development
happening in the industry,especially as the outdoor demographic
sort of evolves?
(12:51):
Absolutely. I mean, I see thatas probably one of the biggest shifts
and most significantdevelopments in outdoor right now.
I mean, the, you know, back toyour point on Covid, Right. The growth
in participation has widenedthe tent. But I would also say that
I don't think most people needa closet full of just summit grade
gear to enjoy the outdoors. Itruly believe that customers want
(13:14):
versatile, functional andexpressive products that feel authentic
to how they actually live andnot just how they recreate. And I
actually believe this is wherethe growth is. And honestly, it's
where the cultural relevanceis too. So I like to think that the
future of the outdoor industryis less about only being technical
(13:35):
and more about beingaccessible, inclusive, and honestly,
optimistic. So, you know, ofcourse you still have to have performance
features. We have. We alwayswill. But you know, Colin, I'm really
proud that we're at theforefront of that evolution. And
when I want consumers and youknow, people that recognize the llama
(14:00):
and think of Cotopaxi, I wantthem to expect to see us on the trail
and on the slopes, but alsoequally expecting us to be in an
airport, on campus, at acoffee shop. So we're going to be
joining customers onadventures big and small and we'll
continue to do that.
(14:20):
Do you pay attention to someof the core versus casual discourse
that exists in places likeLinkedIn and stuff like that and
these sort of old guard whoare clinging to what the outdoors
is supposed to be or is thatat all across, across your desk?
It does. It comes across mydesk. I mean, I pay attention to,
you know, I pay attention toit. But again, that's not really
(14:43):
influencing where we areheaded because, you know, we're staying
true to who we are and I wouldsay where we've always been. It's
like I said, it's our lane andso I'm staying focused there.
Yeah, that's the stuff that Igot to look at or I'm like, you know,
I get it. You know, we allhave the things that we hang our
hat on to define who we are.And if you kind of have Grown up
(15:07):
in the 90s, early 2000soutdoor industry and you don't like,
no one likes change. No onelooks, you know, wants to grow up
in their town and like seelike the target where the mom and
pop used to be. I get that.But it's also just so obvious like
how things are if you reallypay attention, if you see that a
lot of the interesting likeproduct growth happening outside
of the larger outdoor brands,like what's happening on like you
(15:30):
know, if you know, to invokeLloyd Vogel, the garage grown gear
world, like the smallercottage industry, like small niche
brands, like that's where alot of the really interesting things
are happening. And so thethings that people I think are complaining
about are often actuallyhappening. If you just kind of look
in different places, they are.
I completely agree with you.And I think that's the opportunity
for us to you know, see whatbrands the consumer is engaging with
(15:55):
and you know, meeting thecustomer where they are. And I think
that's really, I think that'sreally important for our industry.
Right.
Is the questival going to comeback? I don't know.
I will tell you this, 2026 is.It's got a lot of exciting things
ahead. So we'll see theQuestival. We all love the Questival,
(16:21):
right? And I mean theinnovation from Davis and CJ and
Stefan around the Questable isjust, you know, I mean, I get chills
every time I watch one of thevideos and I see what they were able
to do. So, you know, there's athe Questival into ten years later
(16:45):
looks different.
Let's take a quick break tohear from today's sponsors. Just
in time for fall. We're happyto introduce a new sponsor to the
Rock Fight, Fjall Raven. Falldoesn't get nearly enough credit
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that's where your fall begins.So last week on the Rock Fight, we
(17:28):
learned that mosquitoes killmore humans every year than any other
animal. And like the DalaiLama once said, if you think you
are too small to make adifference, try sleeping with a mosquito.
But I doubt the Dalai Lama wassleeping in an Amplite long sleeved
shirt from Royal Robbinsbecause the Amp Lite long sleeve,
like everything else inRoyal's MPT collection has mosquito
protection technology. Relyingon protection through construction,
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MPT is the chemical freesolution to mosquito free days in
the outdoors. To shop theentire MPT collection from Royal
Robins and stay bite free inthese waning days of summer, head
to royalrobbins.com Today'sepisode of the Rock Fights presented
by Lemz Shoes. As the summerseason wraps up, now is a great time
to get ready for fall withLem's. From easygoing slip ons and
(18:13):
refined leather lace ups totough trail ready boots, Lemz offers
footwear for every occasionand their fit is unmatched. If you
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(18:35):
be sure to stay tuned. But inthe meantime, head to lemshoes.com
right now to get Your feetinto the best fitting shoe you've
ever worn. Hey everyone,before we keep going here, I need
to tell you about ourteammates at Darby Communications.
Like I've been telling you, ifyou run an outdoor, an endurance
or an active lifestyle brand,there is no better PR and digital
marketing belay partner ordrinking buddy than Darby. They can
(18:57):
help your business reach newheights and they might just keep
you from falling on your ass.Since we started working with Darby,
more and more people and thisis an important point now. Guys,
I want you to hear me on this.More and more people have reached
out to us here at the Rockfight because of that messaging.
Look guys, I'm dead serious.If they can help us, they can help
anybody. Hit themup@darbycommunications.com do it
(19:19):
today. And now back to theshow. Well, so we mentioned at the
top, it's been a bit of arollercoaster for you guys here on
the Rockflight. You made ourtop five apparel brand which was
a big deal. Loved that. Butthen you showed up kind of low score
on the Owen index, which wedid a few weeks ago, which kind of
put measures the brand'spositive engagement with their retail
partners. So with all thatkind of in mind, what are your priorities?
(19:42):
As we were looking ahead to 26and we're not going to mention the
T word and our currentpresidential administration, we're
going to assume a levelplaying field. What are fingers crossed
that we get to get to thatlevel playing field. But what are,
yeah, what are your prioritiesfor the brand in 26? Are we talking
more wholesale? D2C? All theabove. Like what are you guys focused
on?
We are, I mean it's been, youknow, an exciting 25 building for
(20:07):
the future. So our focuscontinues to remain on responsible
growth. You know, we do have astrong emphasis on building an omni
business. I believe in. I saidthis earlier about meeting the customer
where they are. So for uswe're prioritizing our E commerce
business, our full pricestores. We have tremendous international
(20:30):
growth right now, all whilethough continuing to serve our wholesale
partners. So you know, as wemove into 26, you'll see growth from
us really across all of thosechannels. There's some new wholesale
partners, there's reallybuilding, continuing to build with
our existing wholesalepartners that we truly value some
(20:51):
new stores as well. So we'reagain we're going to double down
on meeting the consumer wherethey are. I believe very much this
multi channel strategy willenable us to continue to scale our
social impact and our globalPresence from day zero. We've been
committed to, I would say, Ilike to say we're aggressive, ambitious,
(21:15):
but focused on profitablegrowth. And it's consistently allowed
us to deliver on our foundingmission of human impact, which, as
you know, is also veryimportant to us. So even during these
challenging economic times, wedid that in 2023. We gave over a
million to the Cotopaxifoundation, despite industry contraction.
(21:37):
So, you know, we're. We'regoing to exit 25 in a very healthy
position. I'm incredibly proudof, you know, what we've delivered
this year, and it's setting usup for a really strong 26. So, yeah,
there's a lot of excitingthings on the horizon, including
some new brand partnerships,some exciting launches, so you'll
(22:01):
see a lot more from us. Butstaying true to our roots and everything
you and I just talked about interms of, you know, ensuring that
we're still bringing optimism,versatility, performance will be
embedded through everythingthat we do. But it's really that
chance to meet the customerwhere they are.
That's a good point. The, youknow, there's doing well and then
(22:23):
there's doing good. That wassort of a phrase when I was at. Was
that Timberland that JeffSwartz always said of, like, you
know, and doing good wasreally important to Timberland's
point of existing back then. Iassume it still is now. Does that
resonate? I mean, obviously itresonates with anybody paying attention.
Right. And the fact of, like,what a brand does, and. And I want
to ask you about the Mosfetoresale collection in a second, but
the. Does the. Does the doinggood part of it? I mean, you know,
(22:46):
like a cynic would say, like agood lip service. Right. To a bunch
of, like, you know, people whoare environmentally minded or socially
minded. Right. But is it termsof like, is. Which, by the way, even
if. That. If it isn't, if itdoesn't resonate, doesn't mean you
shouldn't do it. Right. It'skind of like, is doing good is. Is
good all on its own, but is.How does that resonate with the consumers?
Like, what is the feedback youget from either wholesalers, consumers
or whatever about the impactthat that has?
(23:08):
Yeah, I mean, it's. It's sucha strong connection point. I mean,
we know that our, you know,our brand awareness and customer
connects very much with ourmission and our impact work. And
I think we've been very clearabout it since day one. We weave
it through, really, all of ourconsumer wholesale e Comm. Connection
(23:33):
points. And so for us, we willcontinue to double down there. You
know, I do think consumerstoday are looking for authenticity,
Colin. And, you know, yes,there's a lot of. Lot of businesses
where, you know, doing goodmeans many different things for us.
What I'm so proud of is it istruly at the core of who we are.
(23:58):
I have not seen us, as I said,even in tough economic times, waver
from that, and I think that'swhat makes it incredibly important
for us to continue. It's apart of who we are. It is the core
of the brand, and ourcustomers and our wholesale partners
understand it, and I think itsets us apart.
(24:19):
So then you have part of thekind of product side of doing good.
You have your Mos Vita, whichis resale collection. Right. Kind
of, you know, looking secondhand.
Correct.
Okay, correct. And then theDel Dia line, which is basically
dead stock, you know, productcreation. What do you want to see
come out of those things? Whatare your hopes for those two initiatives
in terms of. On the productfront as we, you know, the. The tricky
(24:40):
thing, and I've been prettyvocal about this, not just for Cotopoxy,
but in general of, you know,the. The almost hypocrisy a lot of
times with outdoor brands,like, hey, we want to save all these
places, but don't look atwhere we're making this, you know,
that kind of thing. Right. Sothose are really important initiatives
from that perspective, becauseyou put to your point, you do have
to balance out. We've stillgot to make money to exist. So what
are your hopes and dreams forthose two things specifically?
(25:01):
So first, for anyone whodoesn't know, Right. So our Del Dia
line, and I think this kind ofgoes back to the Spring 24 podcast
as well.
It's your crown jewel, man.It's so cool.
I have to go back to it. It.Right. I mean, I think it was a.
Really good podcast episode.And anyone just listening, you know,
(25:21):
we've had a lot of newlisteners since that episode came
out. Go back and listen.
Yeah, I mean, we were foundedon Deldia, right? So you talk about
innovation for Cotopaxi. Imean, this is at the core of our
product. Innovation still istoday. So we launched with Deldia.
You know, it's our connection.It's our collection of unique, bold,
(25:44):
colorful packs made 100% fromremnant materials. So, you know,
we've continued to add to thisline and evolve it. You'll actually
see a lot of evolution in thisline starting in the fourth quarter
of this Year and so more tocome. But we founded the brand with
innovation and remnantmaterials. We continue today again
(26:07):
not only in PACs, but inapparel. You've probably seen some
of our apparel lines, soyou'll see more extension in this
area. And what I love aboutDeldia is I don't know about you,
but every airport I go to,it's what I see.
You're the Hoka footwear ofbackpacks in the airport now. Like
everybody's got on their hokasin their Del Dia backpack.
(26:28):
I see it. You can't.
You do, you do see it around alot. Yeah.
You do, you do.
I've been working in thisindustry for going on 30 years and
so no one gets real excitedwhen I bring things home from a trade
show anymore. And you guysgave me a pack, had switched back.
It didn't last about 10seconds by the time I got in the
house. I think my wife tookthis. That one. Usually it's one
of the kids taking it.
Yeah, no, it's. That's true.We did. Yes. But to go back to Mos
(26:51):
Vita. So Mos Vita is ourresale recommerce program. As you
know, customers send backtheir pre loved gear. It's cleaned,
repaired and resold. So as youthink about both of those programs.
Right. We're still investedheavily in both of them. We're very
proud of our resale program.It gives customers the opportunity
(27:11):
to extend the life of theirproducts. So, you know, we've moved
from a linear take, make, sellmodel to a circular approach. And
you know, it's central to theethos of sustainable gear stewardship.
So you'll continue to see usfocus on Mos Vita and you're going
to see us continue to pushourselves on circularity. We believe
(27:34):
very much that you also haveto design for circularity and repairability.
Sure.
Yeah. As well as supportingthe, you know, the program in the
long run. So for us, it'sactually about both and ensuring
that we're always pushingourselves forward.
Okay. And this was, I think,something I mentioned probably in
that same episode. Butshouldn't they be a little more prominent
on the website where Mosfetaand Deldea are? They're not. I don't
(27:57):
think they're quite as buriedas maybe as when I made that episode.
I think they're a little more.But also I feel like, man, that is
such a cool thing to hang yourhat on on the product side. And given
the mission of the brand, thatshould just almost be like, stop
number one for anyone Poppingon the website is like these two
things.
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, MosVita is prominently featured in central
navigation on the site. We do,you know, quite a bit of consumer
(28:22):
marketing for Mos Vita interms of Del Dia. I mean it's. We
support it in our always onmarketing, so it's always heavily
featured. We direct and drivea lot of traffic to those product
and category pages, whetherthat would be in paid media, whether
it would be with ourinfluencer and ambassador partners.
(28:45):
You see a lot of it on social.But one of my most favorites actually
is I don't know the last timeyou were in one of our stores. But
we are very strategic thatDeldea is always at the front of
the store.
Nice.
And we prominently feature.It's eye catching from a color perspective.
We're unique in the market,but it's also that great conversation
(29:07):
starter with a customer new tothe brand. Because you have a story
to tell.
Right?
So yeah, I mean, quick glance,I know, I'm sure at the site it probably
doesn't, you know, you don'tsee it stand out. But we do make
sure that it's exposed. And wehave also a lot of other products
as well. So as you know, we'realways striking that balance.
When you look at resale ingeneral, and we've talked about this
(29:31):
a bunch on the show too in thelast year about like, you know, listen,
credit or credit's due ifeverybody starts their own resale
program. But also feels to melike that's not the best long term
solution is that everybody hastheir own resale. Like I want to
get a coat, epoxy, you know,resale thing, I got to go here. Versus
like, hey, how about, youknow, a store where it has all resale
items, which I know it's likethe gear trades and there's folks
(29:52):
out there who are trying to dothat. How do you see that evolving?
I mean, is that something.Where would you like to see that
evolve to where it's not sobrand specific, you know, and insular
from the larger thing? And itwould be more of a marketplace for
resale.
Yeah, I mean, we're a huge fanof that. You know, you'll probably
see. You'll see some more newsfrom us on that front coming soon.
(30:12):
But I'm very supportive of themarketplace approach and finding
partners that enable trade inreuse and repair. And little sneak
peek. We're even talking abouthow in some key markets we could
even create an experience thatis not just repairability for us,
but repairability in themarket and how do we create more
(30:35):
of that flywheel? So we'reextremely supportive and I think
you'll see some fun thingsfrom us coming soon.
I swear, Annie Igel didn't askme to ask you that.
I wonder if Annie did. And ofcourse, Annie's leading it.
I thought of her when you saidyour answer. I'm like, oh, I bet
you. I bet you that's theperson behind all of this.
It is.
(30:56):
There you go.
Annie is on the forefront of.
We're pro Annie on the rock fight.
Oh, she's amazing. And, youknow, not only leading impact, but
she leads circularity now as well.
All right. Well, actually,that was a. I like seeing those changes
and hearing stories like that.Actually, that was interesting when
we had Andrew from Livesyn onlast year, and I loved hearing that
(31:17):
base that their head ofproduct is also their head of sustainability,
because, you know, I'vedefinitely been at those brands where,
you know, the head of productis hiding as the head of sustainability
is walking down the hall like,oh, God, they're not going to let
me make the thing that I wantto make, you know, and it's like,
no, just blend the positions,man. You know what? You gotta. You
gotta. Here's. You set thegoals and you gotta achieve the goals.
I loved that. That. So seeingsome, you know, synergy there is
(31:39):
a good thing.
It is. I completely agree.
Last question on the productside, because I have to ask, because
I'm a fabric nerd, have youimproved your fleece?
Well, it's a great.
It's been a minute. I have notseen it lately, so it may not be
fair. I'm just saying it's a great.
I don't work Polar Techanymore, but.
I still am hurt when I see badpolice in the marketplace.
(32:01):
I know, I know. Well, so Ijust left Salt Lake City last week,
and I have to tell you, I hadthe most inspiring product meeting.
Just have to give credit toour amazing product team because
they are doing an amazing joband we launch all new fleece in 26.
(32:24):
So, you know, I think you'llbe excited by what you see. But yes,
it's a. It's a full relaunchof fleece. So you. You'll. We'll
still have it in the marketright now. Yeah. But you'll see that
that is great. We're unwindingand relaunching all new fleece. So
we're incredibly excited. Iknow you and I have talked about
(32:45):
what does product innovationmean? And truly, I think you're going
to see that from us not onlyin terms of. And I truly believe
we've always been innovative.We've balanced. How do we continue
to lead in sustainabilitywhile bringing the best products
(33:06):
to market. And with our boldcolor, that's a big challenge for
a team to do because we don'tsacrifice any of those things. We
deliver on all of that in ourproduct. But as we move into 26,
you'll see quite a bit moreinnovation coming from us, both in
(33:27):
fabrication, in versatility ofsilhouettes and styles, the expansion
within our packs. So there's alot. There's a lot coming that, again,
you know, carry on the. Thecore DNA of who we are, but continue
to build into, I would say,you know, the versatility our customers
(33:50):
are looking for right now.
All right, so last question.You know, like you said, 18 months
on the job, you know, you'repast the sort of, like, the honeymoon
period. You're past the whatare we going to do about this period.
You're kind of like you have ahandle on what you've got. It sounds
like you talked about a bunchof your initiatives that you have
coming up, which are exciting.So if everything works out the way
you hope today, where wouldyou like to see CodaPoxy in 5 years?
(34:10):
Where should the brand be ifeverything goes the way you would
like it to go?
Well, okay, this is myfavorite question you've asked because
I feel incredibly lucky to bein this position on the.
Rock fight, is what you mean.
Well, I'm incredibly lucky tobe here, so thank you. Yes, but,
(34:31):
you know, to be the CEO ofCotopaxi, and, you know, my vision
is to carry on Davis'sfounding dream. So first, you know,
we're going to do a lot moregood in the world. I said this earlier.
What I love about this brandis the passion. More ambitious. And
in five years, I want Cotopaxito be a household name and recognized
(34:55):
not only for the boldproducts, but for the passion and
purpose and impact that webring. So, you know, for me, leading
a company with such hugeambitions is truly a privilege. And
I believe we have anopportunity to make Cotopaxi not
just a brand people know, butone that sits at the center of culture
(35:16):
and will drive lastingrelevance and meaningful change in
the world. And I envision thatwe'll become the Go to outdoor lifestyle
brand. You know, we'll becelebrated not only for our exceptional
gear, but for the vibrantglobal community that we inspire
and our unwavering commitmentto making business a force for Good.
(35:40):
And, you know, from day one,our mission's been clear. We're going
to grow boldly yetresponsibly. And that mindset has
empowered us to delivermeaningful impact even in tough economic
climates. And, you know,continuing to give the level that
we are to the Cotopaxifoundation and continuing to do good
(36:03):
is at the core of who we are.So, you know, as we grow, we get
to do more of that. And I'mincredibly excited about that. So,
yeah, I see. I see us at thecenter of intersectional brands across
outdoor and lifestyle, and I'mreally excited to welcome more into
(36:25):
this space because I want morepeople to find themselves in the
outdoors again, whatever thatmeans to them.
Right.
And. And of course, I justhave to add this. I mean, I have
to give a huge shout out to myteam. I mean, I look across the last
18 months, as you've said, andwhat we've accomplished during that
time, and none of it wouldhave been achieved without this incredible
(36:47):
team. It's that passion, thecreativity and resilience that I
see every day. So they're alsothe ones fueling the growth and keeping
impact at the center. Andbuilding the culture is also what
makes this brand so special.So the opportunity as I look forward
to lead alongside this team isalso incredibly rewarding.
(37:10):
And if the Rock Fight is likethe outdoor industry equivalent of
coming on hot ones, Iappreciate you coming on and sitting
through it. I've said itbefore on the show, we want to just
be a bit of a mirror for theindustry because we want the industry
to be the best version ofitself. We aim for the head, but
has to come from the heart. Sowe'll lob some rocks, we'll make
(37:30):
some jokes and some criticism,but ultimately, that's how I think
things get better. Soappreciate you coming on board and
talking with me today. And,you know, we'll be excited to see
how this all comes out.Excited for new fleece, excited to
see all these things grow. Andthanks so much for joining. I really
appreciate it. Lindsay.
Well, thanks, Colin, and Iappreciate you having me on today.
All right, that's the show fortoday. Thanks to my guest, Lindsey
(37:52):
Shumlis. The Rock Fight is aproduction of Rock Fight llc. I'm
Colin True. Thanks forlistening and like I said, come back
on Monday for the Monday boys.And of course, subscribe and listen
to Open Container and GearAbbey. And now to take us out, it's
our guy, Chris Makes. He'sgoing to sing the Rock Fight Fight
song. We'll see you next timeRock fighters?
Rock fight? Rock fight? Rockfight? Rock fight? Rock fight, Rock
(38:17):
fight? Welcome to the rockfight? Where we speak our truth?
Slay sacred cows and sometimesagree to disagree? We talk about
human powered outdooractivities and big bites about topics
that we find interesting likepop culture music, the latest movie
(38:38):
reviews?
Ideas that aim for the head?
This is where we speak ourtruth? This is where we speak our
truth? Rock fight, Rock fight?Rock fight? Welcome to the rock fight?
Rock fight? Rock? Welcome tothe rock light? Rock light? Rock
fight? Rock light, Rock light,Rock fight? Welcome to the rock fight?
(39:04):
Rock fight? Rock fight, Rock fight.
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