Preseason vs ASAP Orders: Who Holds The Risk? Plus: Redefining The Zombie Brand!

Today on the show Colin convenes with The Monday Boys (outdoor industry insider Eoin Comerford and brand/creative expert Producer Dave) to run through the following headlines to come out of the outdoor industry:

• Mailbag! A listener looks back on one of the OG low top hikers. (05:23)
• Consumer sentiment is on the decline. What does this actually mean for the outdoor industry? (09:57)
• Gravel Running Mania! Salomon has added gravel as a category on their website. Is that the first domino to fall that leads to gravel becoming a full time shoe wall category? (17:52)
• Big week for Vans. First they unveil the objectively terrible 'Future Clog' while prognosticators ponder if vulcanized rubber sneakers are poised for a comeback. (23:17)
• The Rock Fight Lightning Round! This weeks topics: Angler Core! Alcohol Consumption! Inactivity! (28:35)
• According to The Rock Fight's consigliere, retailers are being conservative heading into the F26 selling season. What's going on out there? (32:20)

Lastly for The Parting Shot Eoin takes over and creates his own 1990's playlist. (43:58)

Thanks for listening! The Rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight, LLC.

Sign up for NEWS FROM THE FRONT, Rock Fight's semi-weekly newsletter by heading to www.rockfight.co and clicking Join The Mailing List.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
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Let's see how he didn't knowwhich brand he wanted, just that
the trail ahead was rocky. Butshe knew because she'd trained for
this moment right on herphone. A quick conversation, a confident

(00:22):
recommendation, and a perfectfit hiking boot later, he's ready
for his trip. That's right,she's. She's a shout floor hero.
It may be lunchtime, butbetween sandwich bites, he learned
about fog fighting tech andsnow goggles. An hour later, that
knowledge helped a customerpick the perfect pair and add a helmet
too. Learning on the go,selling with certainty, adding value.

(00:46):
Yup, he's a shout the flowhero. Endeavor is a mobile first
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(01:07):
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Be a shop floor hero.Endeavor's here to stay. Shop floor

(01:27):
hero. Sell through is the way.Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock flight.
Rock fight. Rock flight. Rock fight.
Welcome to the Rock fightwhere we speak our truth, slay sacred
cows, and sometimes agree todisagree. This is an outdoor podcast

(01:49):
that aims for the head. I'mColin True and joining me today,
they awaken once again fromtheir week long slumber. It's the
Monday boys, Owen Comerfordand producer Dave. What's up guys?
I'm still sleepy. Stillsleepy. Wow.
How can you still be hot? Wehave an extreme weather warning out
here. It's gonna get like tobe 82 degrees or something.
Extreme weather warnings inthe northwest are pretty funny. When

(02:11):
I moved there from like Utahwhere it got actually really hot,
and then in Seattle, it'slike, hey guys, it's gonna be like,
it's gonna be like 82 today.Better, better take it easy out there,
you know.
And then they, they trot outall of the, the air conditioning
stats.
Oh my gosh, it hit like 100degrees in Portland last year or
something.
Oh, it did? Yeah. Well, it'sgotten to 112 in the last few years.

(02:33):
Yeah, it's gotten whacking. Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah, those, thosePortlandian, they just melt above
90, so it must have just been.They must have just been combusting
on the street.
You know, we've got a lot oftrees, a lot of shade. Cold beer.
We can do it.
Well, hold on. We're going toget into the cold beer of it all
in a few minutes here. Okay?Maybe not be able to talk about that
anymore. All right. But. ButOwen, we have not had a lake check

(02:56):
in. It's August 22nd. Are we.Is the water temp? Is it bath water?
Is it just wonderful? It isbeautiful today. I can't believe
that I'm stuck inside with youassholes when I could be out on the
boat. That's.
That's very.
No one says you can't pod fromthe boat. Let's just put it that,
you know.
Oh, that would. That's. Wecould do that. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
I'm editing out all thewindblown noise, you know, from on
the.

(03:17):
Or. Yeah, or some, someasshole goes by on a, on a wakeboard
boat and just blasts me with,you know, his awful music choices.
Yeah. No.
All right, some programmingreminders for our listeners tomorrow.
Doug Schnitzbahn, Tuesdays,opens a container like he always
does. His guest this week,guys, it's a. It's a special one.
Doug is welcoming Rock Fight'sown Shantae Salibare to open the

(03:39):
container with him. Talk abouta whole bunch of outdoorsy stuff,
including her upcomingpodcast, Gear Abby, which will be
debuting next week onThursday, September 4th. Hopefully
by the time you're hearingthis, maybe shortly after the trailer
will be out. We'll link tothat and whenever, wherever you get
stuff from Rock Fight so youcan follow that show and be ready
for gear at. And on Wednesday,you can also hear Shantae here on

(04:00):
the Rock Fight when she and Ichat about the latest headlines come
out of the outdoor adventurecommunity. On this upcoming Friday's
episode, Columbia SVP ofmarketing Matt Sutton is going to
join producer Dave and I totalk about Columbia's Engineered
for Whatever campaign, answerthe question, what was the brief?
And then also respond to allthe haters that are currently still

(04:20):
thriving inside my LinkedInthreads. Dave, with that in mind,
you know, how can ourlisteners get even more from the
Rock Fight than what I just described?
Colin, there's so more newsfrom the front every few days or
so or few weeks or whenever,really. Colin kind of decides to
throw that out the window, themoving window, I might add.

(04:41):
It's a newsletter.
It's a newsletter. It's anewsletter. Right? And the best way
to get that is head toRockfight co and sign up and yeah,
it goes directly to your inbox.
Oh, and how can our listenersreach out to us? Maybe want to comment
on Gear Abby or open containeror what's going on with our guests

(05:02):
coming up. How can they reach out?
Well, if you want to be partof our listener mailbox segment that's
coming up right after this,you can email [e-mail]
you can reach us on LinkedInjust search up rock fight or on Instagram
where we are Rock fight co allone word and you can follow along
or send us a message.

(05:24):
Well, like Owen alluded to, wedo have a bit of a listener mailbag
and we're going to start withfriend of the pod and owner of the
trailhead in Missoula,Montana. Todd Frank sent us a letter,
sent us an email last weekwriting in to highlight how long
low top hikers have actuallybeen around. I guess on a recent
episode we gave credit toMontreux for the category, but as
Todd points out in his email,it was actually in the early 80s

(05:44):
that we saw the first forayinto this category and it came from
a brand that is probably goingto make some of the modern outdoor
gatekeepers pretty mad. SoTodd writes, hey guys, I listened
to the episode this week aboutfielding Montreal, came up as an
OG of the original low tophiker. Just want to call your young
asses out a bit. I got myfirst pair of these and he sends
a picture Nike lava domes in1980 or 1981 and did a five day trip

(06:09):
in the Beartooths where acouple of friends and their dads
thought I was crazy and that Iwas going to die. These are in my
opinion the OG low top hiker.Not that Nike deserves any recognition,
but they do deserve it hereand Todd included a photo and a description.
I'll link it in the show notesbut I'll put it up on Instagram of
the OG lava dome. Dave, didthat take you back? Do you remember

(06:30):
the lava domes?
I do remember the lava domes.Lava domes are great. That whole
first, you know, early 80sNike line kind of pre ACG attempted
outdoor was still justinteresting. Interesting colors.
The lava dome I think they hadthe I think there was the caldera
was another one. But yeah,just some cool starting to see the

(06:50):
fashion influence to hikingreally early. But I'm not sure with
that if that's the first oneeither though I would have to say
that I think we could probablythrow some rocks because where does
solo come in or.
Or.
Excuse me, where does OsloCome in. I mean, what about the first

(07:11):
high techs? Do thosetechnically count? I mean, if you're
taking kind of low. He'scalling low top. Is that the light
hiker category? And so I guess.
I mean, if you look at it,there's some. It's very cortezy.
Right. I mean, it's not a. Youdoes have, like, early Nike running
shoe. Yeah.
Where, you know, like whathe's even talking about had actually
a kind of a hike aspect to it. Right.

(07:32):
But it was.
It was a. It was a run hikecrossover. I thought it looked. Looks
pretty sweet. They shouldbring that puppy back.
I agree.
Yeah, yeah. Just really clean.Not all the bullshit that you see
today. Yeah, I thought it was great.
I just love the narrative, thecontinued outdoor narrative that,
you know, we talk about a lotabout here. But like, I think of

(07:52):
like the first sort of softhiker. Just when I started working
retail in the 90s. It's like,you know, the Merrell Moab and like,
the Merrell being like, oh,they're sort of originating this,
like, doesn't have to be abig, chunky, heavy boot thing. And
it's like, no, actually,dumbass, when you were five years
old, this. This other thingwas already out there. So. Thank
you, Todd, very much for your email.
So, Todd, thank you forcalling us young. That. That was

(08:15):
really. That was nice.
Yeah, that was. That was interesting.
Todd, if we're the young guysaround here.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah, wow, man. So we also gotan email this week from listener
Mason Colby, who wrote in totell us about his new substack, which
takes a look at the names ofoutdoor brands and products. He gave

(08:35):
us a shout out in one of therecent posts as well. Anytime someone
is looking at the outdoorindustry the way we do here on the
Rock Fights, we want tohighlight them. And I've linked Mason's
substack, which is called.Sorry, I think it's trail names.
Yeah, trail names is the nameof it. And so go there, check it
out. Thanks for, Mason, forwriting in and listening in. I mean,
it's the whole thing Dave wasabout, you know, how do we. Looking

(08:56):
at the names of outdoorproducts and kind of, you know, ranking.
Well, not ranking them, butlike, you know, kind of breaking
them down a way, which I thinkis kind of right in our wheelhouse
for sure.
Yeah. Like you said, Colin, wehave. We've spent a lot of time,
probably an inordinate amountof time and an unhealthy amount of
time talking about names andbrand names and are they appropriate?
Are they good? Are they bad?Are they evil?
Right.
The whole. The whole gamut. Soanybody who kind of keeping a scorecard

(09:18):
is probably good for us, youknow, like those that track, like,
terrorist groups. You needsomebody out there doing the. Doing
the legwork and really makingsure we have an easily accessible
database of what's gone rightand what's gone wrong.
We need Mason to starttracking brand names without vowels
and see how many are out there.
You know, ooh, that's a great category.
Or brand names. Brand namesthat are all lowercase.

(09:40):
Oh, lowercase.
And then bonus category, alllowercase. No vowels.
No, that's good. That's asubset for sure. Right.
All right. If you would likeus to read your email here on the
Rock Fight, like Owen told youearlier, send us your emails. The.
The address ismyrockflightgmail.com. all right.
The opening shot on today'sepisode of the Rock Fight is presented

(10:00):
by Lem Shoes. As the summerseason wraps up, now is a great time
to get ready for fall withLem's from easygoing slip ons and
refined leather lace ups,which does sound a little dirty,
as Shantae pointed out lastweek. I gotta. We gotta work on that
copy to tough trail ready boots.
I think it's. I think it'.
Sales are up.
Yeah. Interest is even up.

(10:21):
More Lem's offers footwear.
You and Chate, I mean, just.Yeah. I don't know. Dirty minds on
the Wednesday podcast.
I gotta say thank you, Lemzfor every occasion. And their fit
is unmatched, everybody. Ifyou've never experienced the fit
of a pair of Lems, you know, Ijust feel kind of sorry for you.
So Lems are built withcomfort, durability, and versatility

(10:43):
at their core. Theircollection is ready to take you wherever
the season leads. And withfresh, exciting styles just around
the corner. Be sure to staytuned to hear what they. What they
have coming down the pike. Butin the meantime, head to Lemz Shoes.com
right now to get your feetinto the best fitting shoe you've
ever worn. And I think, oh,and you follow it from last week.
You got your Lemz.
I did get my Lem's. Yeah. Atrailblazer. And then the. What was

(11:06):
the other one? The.
The primal Zen, I believe.
Primal Zen. So I've only triedthe trailblazer, but the first thing
that was interesting was mywife actually commented positively
on a pair of shoes, which isthat I wear. I know. That was odd.
And then while I wasrecovering from that My son actually
said those look pretty cooltoo. So, yeah, off to a good start.

(11:29):
That's really weird. He eventried them on to see if he could
steal them. But I'm slightlylarger footed but no good looking
shoe. Yeah, great fit, niceroomy toe box, but without looking
like an orthopedic shoe, likeAltra does, at least in my opinion.
Yeah, it's a good pair of shoes.

(11:51):
Okay, today's opening shot.According to an article on sgb, a
new survey from the Universityof Michigan shows that US Consumer
sentiment unexpectedlydeclined for the first time since
April, given the ongoingtariff turmoil and expectations of
increasing inflation. So,Owen, can we just start basing with
the basics on this one? Likewhen you hear about surveys measuring
consumer sentiment, like, whatdoes that actually mean? Like, if

(12:12):
I'm an outdoor brand orretailer, is that something I should
even be tracking somehowapplying that information to my business
planning? I mean, isn't itsomething that we kind of already
know if we're paying.
Attention a little bit? Imean, I would say, first of all,
this isn't just some survey,right? And this isn't just some university.
This is the University of Michigan.
Oh, God, what if it had beenfrom Ohio? What if, you know.

(12:37):
Nobody would care. But no, Imean, this survey has been around
since the 50s, right? And soit really, it is the survey, right,
that everyone talks about andthey've been doing this for, you
know, decades, driven by adetailed interview of at least 600
people. And a lot of them arerepeats so that they can compare

(12:57):
their answers to before. Andreally it's to show the overall direction
of, of the economy. And theytake all these questions and really
it's about how do you feeltoday versus a year ago? All that
kind of stuff. But it reallyhas been shown to be a good predictor
of consumer sentiment. Andmore importantly, consumer spending,

(13:19):
which actually drives twothirds of our gdp, is consumer spending.
So it is a pretty goodpredictor. It predicts recessions.
You go back to 2008. It wastanking in the early part of 2008
before everything really hitthe fan in the late part of that
year. So people really do keepan eye on this. And then in this

(13:42):
context, after the tariffswere announced, it dropped to 52.2
in April and May. Then itclimbed back up to 61.7. So as people
said, oh, this tariff thing isno big deal. I guess it's overblown.
There's going to be no priceincreases, but then plunged back
down to 58.6 in August. SoDefinitely people are listening and

(14:05):
I think more importantly isthey're not just listening to the
news. But I think what you sawin August was people actually seeing
it in the prices that they'repaying for stuff for the first time.
And for a comparison, it was67.9, so 58.6 this August, 67.9 last
August. So a big year overyear drop. The interesting thing

(14:28):
is it peaked recently or therecent peak was a 74 in December.
So right after the election,everything was like, oh, it's going
to be great. The Trump term.Trump is the master economist, whatever,
whatever. And now people arelike, oh, shit, reality has set in.
This guy doesn't have it.
So speaking of that, regardingthe survey itself, so the article

(14:50):
states that consumer sentimentdropped unexpectedly. I mean, given
everything going on, doesn'tit kind of stand the reason that
this was a little expected?
Right. Well, no, right.
That's what I think too.
Unexpectedly.
Like, I don't know. Soundslike we talk about, maybe we just
talk about it too much on our podcast.
I think there's a tendencyamong most economists to somewhat,

(15:10):
I don't know, at times shrugoff the consumer and just kind of.
They don't know. They don'tknow what they're doing. Right. And
the fact that the consumer hadbounced back up pretty quickly after
the initial drop and the factthat the stock market, because some
people view the stock marketas another proxy for the economy
and consumer sentiment. So thefact that the stock market was still

(15:31):
at record highs, but nowconsumer sentiment's taken a big
dip. That I think was the bigdisconnect. Like, oh, shit, what
is going on here? And again, Ithink it is actually the consumers
are going, oh, no, this tariffthing, we're getting it now. It's
real. It just didn't comeright away, but it's coming and it's
going to be bad.

(15:52):
You put all these together,everything's about the tariff, tariff,
tariff, but the job market itself.
Right.
I guess this is something toothat just kind of, it's like we've
lost 300,000 federal jobs.That's just federal jobs. And they
tend to be, you know, whitecollar and in a lot of the departments
and spend a lot of timeoutside, frankly. And then you're

(16:13):
talking, then we have just thelayoffs going on in all these other
sectors. It's just, I feellike there's a little bit of just
ignoring the big, the thinggoing on that's affecting everyone
and we just. It's a tariff,but it's like, no it's more than
that.
I think that's a very, veryfair point, Dave, that there's a
lot going on. I think AI is ahuge source of stress for people

(16:35):
as to what that's doingbecause it really is attacking the
underpinnings of societies andcareers and all sorts of things.
You've got new collegegraduates that are facing probably
the worst market for newcollege graduates in years, some
of it because AI is basicallytaking all of those jobs that used
to be done by the grunt workthat the new college graduates would

(16:56):
go in to get their feet wet.And then you've got other areas that
are being completely replacedby AI. So it is a combination agreed
of more than tariffs. It'stariffs, it's the economy, it's unemployment.
It's just the overall level ofuncertainty that we have today.
All right, so same thing Ialways ask you. You're sitting back
in your chair, CEO of MooseJah. You're looking at this. What

(17:17):
do you do?
Well, I'm going to be carefuland we'll get to it later. I'm going
to be careful in terms of mypreseason orders. I'm also probably
going to be cutting costs andsort of trying to get more of a hardened
balance sheet, so to speak, interms of having cash because you
don't want to. In an idealworld, you're prepared before the

(17:39):
bad things happen. Because ifyou start cutting after the bad things
happen, typically it's much,much worse. All right.
So yes, stay tuned for parttwo of this conversation coming up
in the main topic of show,because that's what's coming up next.
Good teaser. Next up, we haveto talk about gravel running shoes,
guys. All right, a year ago,at least a year ago, Justin Hausman
and I responded to some brand,I forget who it was, starting to

(18:00):
talk about a new category ofgravel running. Last month, Owen
and I talked about seeingCraft's lineup of gravel shoes at
the Outdoor Market AllianceMedia show, which they said was more
of an internal designation,not like something they weren't looking
for retailers to add acategory. But this week, Amer Sports
CEO James Zhang spoke aboutSalomon's recently launched gravel
line. And if you visitSalomon's website, you can see the

(18:21):
category for yourself. They'recalling them gravel shoes. I want
to talk about gravel, but Iwant to approach this from two points
of view. First up, is thissustainable for running? And second,
from a retailer perspective,do we need or want an entirely new
header on the footwear wallbetween road and trail that is a
gravel specific designation.Dave, when you look at running from
a brand and creative point ofview, do you get excited about the

(18:43):
prospects of growing thecategory this way or does it simply
divide resources that could beapplied to trail running, which as
we all know is exploding right now?
I think it's the same thing,Colin. I think this is a, a distinction
in search of a reason. Now,from a storytelling perspective,
the idea that you are able totalk about a surface as a, as an

(19:08):
activity viscerally like, Ican certainly hear the sound of the
footsteps on the gravel.Crunch, crunch.
So different from a tram too.So it's just so radically different.
Sure, that's definitely moreof a thud, Colin. I mean, come on,
can't you get that? But, butit gives you a sense to change up
your environment. So you arekind of. But you are telling the
same stories, right?

(19:29):
For sure.
But so from that, I like that.But from a product perspective, I
mean, it is silly. I have agravel shoe, I have a trail shoe.
I have a road shoe, I have aday shoe, I have a night shoe. I
have my hybrid gravel andtrail, which is a little bit of dirt,
a little bit of rock. Right.So it's like, you know, it does get
a little bit wacky when youthink about it that way.
You made me think of thecreatives. Now it's like, how am
I going to show this? Okay,look at all these old trail running

(19:51):
videos. Well, that kind oflooks like a gravel trail.
Is that smooth river rocks?Are they kind of more of a sharper,
kind of gravelly? I can'treally get that. What's my inspiration?
I don't want to take thisseriously, but I mean, it's like
Solomon. And this is not ustaking another jab at Solomon, which
we know we have fun doing atour. Because of our own missteps
earlier this year. But it'salso like, man, it's a category.
They're putting it on theirwebsite as a category. Like that

(20:13):
says to me that they're goingto say to retailers, you also should
have a category. Category.
Is it a category or is it justa couple shoes that we call gravel?
That's probably what it willamount to being.
Look at the voiceoveropportunities, Colin. I mean, really,
you could really segment this.This is pretty cool.
Sometimes you don't want toride on a trail, run on a trail in

(20:34):
a world. In a world wheresometimes you're on a trail that's
a little smoother than other trails.
Well, well, you have to runsmooth, run Smooth.
There's the tagline.
Smooth.
There you go.
I think each pair should comewith a little set of calipers. And
so you go out on the road andthen you see, okay, is that a pebble
or is it a piece of gravel? Ifit's more than you're going to change

(20:57):
from the gravel to the trailrunning shoe. And then if there's
no gravel and.
You all have to. You run witha running vest now. So you have your
trail running shoes with you.And if the trail changes, you Change
your shoes 100%. And theneventually we'll have brands who
come out with, like, removableoutsoles. And you can put on the
gravel outsole with the trailoutsole. Right.
Kind of. Kind of likebackcountry skiing. Yeah. You get

(21:18):
the skin.
It's a skin.
Okay. Got it. Love it. Yeah.
So, all kidding aside, Owen,from a retailer perspective, like,
would you embrace this andlean into it, or is this just a trend
that's probably going tofizzle out at some point?
Sure. I mean, if it helps mesell more shoes, I am all over it.
Bring it, baby. Yeah. I mean,I think it's a category that in some

(21:39):
ways a. It gives. If I'm trulyan outdoor retailer, it's a category
that gives me a little bitmore permission to stock those shoes
as opposed to a pure, pureroad running shoe. So that helps.
Although, quite frankly, thathasn't stopped a lot of outdoor retailers
from stocking pure, pure roadrunning shoes. But, yeah, I mean,
I think if they sell, I wouldsell them. It's also potentially

(22:02):
a way to sell a consumer thatjust bought the trail running shoes.
Well, okay, now those are forthe trail. Okay, but how are you
going to get to the trail?Okay, now you're gonna need this
other pair just to get to thetrail. And then, in fact. And then
here's these road runningshoes to get you to the gravel before
you get to the trail. So I'mgonna sell you three pairs of shoes
for one. It's gonna be great.
I remember when Justin and Idid talk about that. Cause he was

(22:24):
even thinking, like, God,like, you know, sometimes I gotta
run it. Run the road to thetrailer. Can I. Can I do that in
my trail running shoes? Andlike, these little, like, thoughts
that kind of get embedded inyour head that we obsess over at
times. Like, the trauma thatyou're creating for the runners out
there by adding more things isnot okay. Running brands scale it
back.
I think it does make sense,though, for Salomon, because obviously

(22:45):
Their core DNA is trailrunning. They would love to get more
of that sweet, sweet roadrunning money. Right. Bigger category.
So this kind of gives themthat on ramp, so to speak, from trail
to road. I think they do sellroad running shoes today, but this
gives them a little bit moreof a way to get there.
That's. You're right. It's atransition. In a sense. Gravel is

(23:07):
like the road unfinished. Ithink this is.
That's a novel sprites itself.
Right? It does. That's gravelrunning the road unfinished.
Boy. Okay, well, staying inthe footwear world. So it was an
interesting week for vans.Starting last week on, on this podcast
where I mentioned that my kidsare currently in a vans or lame phase.

(23:27):
Followed by a post onhypebeast's Instagram of the vans
future clog. And then lastlyon Thursday of last week, Footwear
News reported that Vans andall vulcanized rubber footwear brands
are poised for a comebackbased on the hype around Vans old
school souvenir, a shoe thatwas Inspired by an 11 year old messenger
bag. The interest in that shoeshowing that those who tracked the
footwear space at vulcanizedrubber kicks could soon be back in

(23:49):
style. So, Dave, weird weekfor vans where on one hand you have
the future clog, which we bothbelieve is maybe the wrong way to
go for a Vans clog. And thenyou also have the old school souvenir,
which feels right in thebullseye for probably what you'd
want from vans. What are yourimpressions of where Vans is as we
sit here in August 2025? Imean, do you agree with Footwear
News that a resurgence is imminent?
Well, sure. You wait a, wait afew months and you're gonna get a

(24:10):
re. Imminent of every stylethat goes up and back. You know,
I, I kind of see vulcanizedand boots as kind of the kind of
polar opposite pieces. And sothey tend to balance each other out.
When one is up, the other'sdown. And so I think that's. Sure.
I could say sure.
What'd you think? What'd youthink of the clog? It's sitting right

(24:31):
there for them. Yeah, just doa can like a canvas, a black and
white checkered canvas clog.You know, it's just like make a clog
out of the shoes everybody loves.
You know, and they have prettymuch mined all of their original
silhouettes, the standards,the, the skate highs, the half cabs.
They've put in pretty muchevery type of shoe you can.
Yeah.

(24:51):
You know, entitled to minethat. So. Yeah, why not one more
With a. If you want a. If youwant a comfy, cushy, you know, mushy
clog, sure, like no problem.But yeah, it just, it doesn't seem,
it doesn't feel to me vans,you know, but they've been pushing
a lot of. Some of it good,some of it bad. They've been pushing
a lot of boundaries for awhile. I mean they certainly made
a foray into the mountainspace a little bit with some mixed

(25:16):
results. But yeah, that onejust didn't feel right.
You know, Owen, for the peoplewho, you know, a little bit gatekeepy
again around the outdoors, Imean, should we even be talking about
vans on an outdoor podcastthat aims for the head?
It's a fair question becausethe core vans line is definitely
fashion. I mean let's behonest here. But we sold vans at

(25:37):
Moose Jaw. We had theirsnowboard boots. You know, they do
have a BMX line but which isbasically really kind of sort of
a redo of their skatingpieces. And then they used to have
hiking line. I went lookingfor it and I couldn't really find
it. So is that.
I thought they released onelike last year. Wasn't there a recent

(25:58):
release of hiking shoes?
They still have. I don't knowif it's a full on collection mte.
So that's the, that's kind ofthe outdoorsy side. The cross path
is definitely. And thecrestline are kind of the two main
styles and they have those inkind of regular, extra duty, waterproof,
insulated. There's even a GoreTex version, you know, so they've

(26:18):
definitely played in that. Andagain, I think visually they look
great if you, you know, theyhaven't had great success with them.
A lot of close out to thatstuff, but it's one of those where
it might take a while to pushthat in there. And they did that
in the late 90s, you know,again kind of, you know, marrying
the BMX into some trail butyou know, never enough to get into

(26:39):
sponsorships. Snowboardingobviously was really the first kind
of way to get into to bootswhich again I think they've cut up
and down success and those. Imean they started snowboarding boots
in the early night. I meanthey were kind of very early to that.
I was kind of looking at someof that and, and just kind of remembering,
remembering way back when thefirst, the first signature snowboard

(27:01):
boots with athletes 1997 withJamie Lynn, Sean Palmer and Cersei
Wallace were the firstsignature boots to that. And those
really again kind of broughtthe classic Vans feel to boots. And
I think they've always, eversince then, have seen the ability
to take that silhouette andbring it into other mountain or trail
type of things. So it's stillthere. I just don't know how much

(27:21):
they're pushing to it. And doyou. Like you said, the fashion has
gone the core of the line,which kills me because I would still
hope and pray that the core ofthe line is skateboarding. Right.
And that, you know, thatshould be still the performance aspect
of skate shoes. It's not allabout the vulcanized kind of piece.
There's definitely technologythat belongs in that kind of stuff.

(27:43):
So I hope that they, you know,that that sport has changed and that
whole industry has changed,but it's still, to me, the center
of their being. Even, evenbefore it was recognized as an action
sport, you know, that was suchthe pure adoption of a subculture.
And it came out of surfing, bythe way. It was people trying to
like mimic surfing on land.And I think, you know, that, you
know, go back to Todd's emailat the beginning of this episode,

(28:04):
right? Nikes inner dippingtheir toes in the hiking water in
1980. I just like, you know,it absolutely belongs in an outdoor
store. For my perspective, forus to talk about it, I think it's
relevant. You sold them atMoose Jaw? If I live in a town, I
have a great skate park and Idon't care if I'm a backpacking store,
you could justify sellingsome, you know, some decks and some
trucks and some vans. Like, itwould totally make sense as a part
assortment.

(28:24):
I'm looking at a silhouette ofthe cross path right here. And let
me say, if you put anybodyelse's brand on it, that's like from
the outdoor native space,you're not going to question it at
all. It's a good looking shoe.
Are you guys ready for thelightning round? First up, hiker

(28:45):
core may be dead, but a newtrend is just getting started because
angler core is here. Thefisherman aesthetic trend has arrived
with inspired pieces based offof waders and cropped vests with
lots of pockets. So, Owen, howhigh is the angler corps ceiling?
Are we gonna see you at tradeshows this fall wearing your new
fishing vest?
No, no, hey, I, I earned myoutdoorsy look honestly through,

(29:12):
through industry pro deals. Sono, I, I will not be. You're not
gonna see me in, in an anglingvest. But I, I don't know. I. This
is just like the illogicalconclusion or extension of the lumber
sexual. I don't remember thatone. Oh, of course, core, all of
that, which is basically justurban people wanting to appear connected

(29:33):
to nature. And I'm not goingto blame it for that. Everybody,
you should want to compare,want to appear connected to nature
or actually, you know what,connect with nature. That's also
a good option. But these sortsof people and trends have driven
our business way more thanmaybe we'd even want to admit. So
hey, I'm all for it. Go for it.
Did you say illogical?Illogical. Conclusion. I disagree.

(29:56):
Anytime you're talking thatmany pockets in one place, you have
got some function going on. Imean, I think it's the most actually
logical of all thoseadoptions. I mean, look, a puffy
jacket in a cold northeasterncity totally makes sense. But I'm
just saying if you can cram12, 24 pockets into one space, you're
basically a walking pharmacy.You can just pour little, little

(30:18):
pieces everywhere. It's fantastic.
All right. The only thing thatone of you said that wasn't honest
was Owen. He didn't payanything. He got those deals for
free. Let's be honest, therewas no pro deals.
That's right.
By the way, so did the rest ofus. All right? Right. All right,
next up, a new gallery poll isreporting that alcohol consumption
in the US has hit a 50 yearlow with 53% of America Americans

(30:41):
now seeing moderate drinkingas bad for your health. Dave. Outdoor
brands have been touting theirtrail to bar products for more than
a decade now. But this newstudy makes that phrase risky to
alcohol adverse consumers.What will be the new cliche to prove
a button down shirt canperform but also be kind of stylish?
We put the fun in fentanyl.Like, I don't know, like what are

(31:03):
you gonna do?
As long as there'salliteration, it's acceptable.
I think it's totally, itdoesn't have to actually work. I
mean, what this is reallysaying is that the temperance movement
is winning. And they may havestarted in the 19th century with
our, you know, with ourbuckskin suits at that same time.

(31:24):
They had a little victory inthe 20s, we were able to beat it
back, but now it looks likeit's gonna win.
Alright, last one. The Sportsand Fitness Industry association
recently issued a mid yearreport stating that 22.9% of Americans
were entirely inactive duringthe first half of 2025. Oh, and in
years past I would haveassumed that these 23% of inactive

(31:46):
people were probably gettingwasted. But if no one is drinking
anymore, what the hell werethese inactive people doing.
I think, unfortunately, theyhave let the tech industry take over
their lives. So they're eitherdoom scrolling on their phones, they're
playing video games, they'rebinging squid game, or worst of all,
having deep and meaningfulconversations with ChatGPT.

(32:08):
Yeah, don't call out Dave like that.
Yeah, I give chat GPT advice, Colin.
Oh, let's just be clear. Okay.
Today's main event on the Rockfight was presented by Oboz, who
wants to share their love ofhiking. And we want to help them
by uncovering all thedifferent reasons we love to take
the long, including thefollowing. Number one, a dorky fanny

(32:32):
pack becomes a cool hip packif you're hiking with it. Do you
wear it over your shoulder?How do we feel about the overall
shoulder?
You can go sling. Yeah,that's. That's really cool. Yeah,
yeah, yeah.
That seems like I'm not gonnaweigh in. I'm too old to weigh in
on that one. Number two,hiking is the only time you can use
trekking poles in publicwithout people looking at you funny.
I'm sure that's true.
Nordic walkers in 2006 wouldtake exception to that.

(32:54):
I'm just not sure either ofthose are true.
Number three, any walk can becalled a hike if you're wearing the
right boots.
There you go.
That's true. Yeah. Numberfour, especially if those boots are
a pair of Oboz Highlight midwaterproof boots. Oboz Highlight
is rooted in the spirit ofHighlight Canyon. Designed for lasting
comfort and made with recycledand bio based materials, the high

(33:16):
Alite collection is designedto support your stride, whether that's
out on rocky switchbacks orwandering closer to home. And this
hiking appreciation moment isbrought to you by Oboz of Bozeman,
Montana. Oboz is the maker ofpremium quality footwear for the
trail and the cupid to theoutdoor world. Oboz. Love hiking.
All right, for our main topictoday, fall selling season right

(33:36):
around the corner. Like wewere talking about earlier. And Owen,
this week on LinkedIn, you putup a post about the state of preseason
orders. Now, they appear to betrending more conservatively. So
you asked industry retailers,reps and brands to weigh in with
what they're observing as theyare looking to book orders for fall
26. You, of course, received anumber of responses. Before we get
into the reactions, why don'tyou give us the background here?
What were you observing in themarketplace that led to this post?

(33:59):
Really? It's actually thatright now we're wrapping up spring
summer 26 order writing. Sotheoretically done Right. And I'm
just hearing from a lot ofbrands and retailers that the retailers
are really holding back onpreseason order levels and they're
really citing just all of thisuncertainty. We've talked about tariffs
and consumer confidence, etcetera, and they're worried about

(34:22):
what will that do to fallsales on top of the fact that current
sales are actually pretty softtoo. And really those retailers,
they remember the inventoryglut of 22 into 23 when they really
got stuck holding the baby onthat one and they do not want to
be in that position again. Soreally, they're basically saying,

(34:42):
hey, brands, I'm going to pushthat inventory risk to you. I'm hoping
that sales will still begreat, but I'm just going to what
we call in the industry,Chase. Right. Chase inventory and
place ASAP orders or in seasonorders as I need them, rather than
do it all up front.
So what were some of theresponses you got?
Well, actually, probably myfavorite retail response was from

(35:04):
Todd Frank. Again. Todd Frank.
This is the Todd Franken. Lotsof love on the pod.
We should have him on the pod.I mean, he is the new board chair
for goa.
That's true.
Yeah. Yeah. So we should haveTodd on. But his was. His response
was my own line is when I showup and sit down, I reach down and
pull a wooden box of risk outof my bag. We spend the next hour

(35:26):
pushing it around the table.Us pushing risk at vendors ASAP and
them pushing risk at uspreseason. We try to find a place
where we can both live withit. It's a balance for me. Some vendors
who behave well in D2C, I'mwilling to take a much larger risk.
Crappy D2C management, verylow pre season, regardless of the

(35:46):
deal. So just a reallyinteresting comment. And that actually,
I think summed up the retailerperspective a lot, which is, hey,
it's not all things for allpeople. If I'm cutting pre seasons,
some I'm going to keep exactlythe same. Others I'm going to cut
way back. And it's really abrand by brand discussion. And then
on the brand side, friend ofthe pod, Andrew Gibbs Dabney from

(36:08):
Lives in wrote a novel. It was like.
But at the prepping for hisnext appearance on BBC.
Oh, right. Yes, exactly.
He's got to get that BBC money.
Mm, that's sweet. BBC money.Yeah. I was just talking to Andrew
the other day. He's like, whycan't I get this kind of exposure

(36:28):
in a market where I sell my product?
Everyone's like, hey, wherecan I get your stuff? You can't get
it here. Okay.
Maybe they should launch inEngland. I don't know.
Go on Fox News. That's whatyou need to do, Andrew.
Oh, there we go. Quoting sortof the core of Andrew's novel, he
said, when pre seasons arereduced with an expectation of similar

(36:51):
sales to previous periods,then the brands don't have clarity
to forecast and purchaseaccurately. This leads to brands
making to sell and doing moreof the buy as guesswork. If a brand
forecasts incorrectly, theextra stock is concentrated in one
location with one customerbase, leading to an inefficient process
in finding customers for thoseproducts. Ergo, closeouts and liquidation.

(37:13):
Ultimately, retailers reducingpre season ordering in favor of chasing
ASAPs will lead to more wastein the system and more discounting
down the line.
Dave, you see Ergo, in astatement you take it more or less
seriously.
I think it Ergo, that's agreat question. I don't know.
I would say before the matrixI would have taken it less seriously.

(37:37):
But after the matrix, it'sreally an important part of any kind
of diatribe or discussion ofhow the process and systems work.
You would need to use Ergo.
But look, all kidding aside, Imean, Andrew's point is very valid.
It kind of breaks it downfrom, especially from a small band
perspective of what their dayto day life is like. Right.
Well, the other issue from asmall brand perspective is the smaller

(37:59):
the brand, it's sort ofironic, but the smaller brand, the
more they have to put down interms of the deposit before the order
is even placed. Upwards of 50%of the inventory. Right. So they're
putting all this money downway in advance just to get the product
made, then they've got to payfor it to get it on a ship. Okay,
with pre seasons, at leastwhen they get it here, typically
they're getting it right atthe door to the brands and then hopefully

(38:20):
within 30 days they get paid.They're getting paid on the early
side of the season. If it allgoes to asaps, it might be months
before they're getting paid.And it really stretches out that
sort of inventory to cashcycle, which really is a big deal
for emerging brands.
So what else did you hear fromthe folks on this thread?
Caleb Nixon, who waspreviously a senior exec with Sea

(38:42):
to Summit in Australia, heactually kind of came in with a bit
of a contrarian view, which Ithought was interesting. He, he doesn't
like preseasons, didn't likethem, and actually sort of stayed
away from them because a, theyate into margins because you're incentivizing
the retailer to buy it preseasons. Right. And oh by the way,
the retailers can cancel thosepre seasons at any time right up
until delivery which cancreate all sorts of problems. Right.

(39:06):
But even if they don't cancel,then you've got this big delivery
pressure to get it there intime otherwise you get in trouble.
And so you're air freightingstuff in and doing all kinds of stuff.
And finally it can create sortof these adversarial relationships
between retailer and brand. Soit was interesting to get that other
side. Like okay, maybe not allbrands view preseasons as the best

(39:26):
thing on the planet.
So I mean Owen, and all thiswith any kind of concrete conclusions.
Also, when you kind of go backto our first story, right, about
kind of consumer sentiment,like how does this all kind of tie
together?
I think ultimately in terms ofthe whole preseason part of does
come down to balance andpartnership between retailer and
brand. And, and really thebrands that are the better partners,

(39:48):
those that do less DTCdiscounting, that have better spend
in terms of top of the funneldemand generation for product that
do deliver on time. Thosebrands are not going to see big cuts
through the D2C orders. Right.It's the other brands that are in
trouble where maybe they'renot core, they're doing some discounting,

(40:08):
they've done some other thingsin the past. Those are the ones.
I think they're going to struggle.
How do you do? I mean, becausethere are some brands who probably
have to be their business.They're tied into almost discounting
on D2C I was looking at alegacy brand. We don't talk a lot.
Sarah Design's website thismorning just because I happen to
be doing some research onsomething and it's like 50% off,
25% off. And I understand it'smaybe end of the season but I kind

(40:30):
of get the impression not tocall you out, Sierra, but this is
probably the kind of worldyou're living in now. How do you
even break out of that? Wehear that from a lot of brands who've
built this business of well,we can't stay in business if we don't
sell these products and wecan't sell these products unless
they are massively discountedalmost all the time. You have to
draw a line in the sand andjust go for it and cross your fingers

(40:52):
that it works out.
I think unfortunately a lot ofbrands are in this overproduction
mode where they're basicallytrying to push a rope. They're producing
too much stuff to sell throughat the price that they need to sell
through it at. So they have todiscount. I mean, that's just the
end of the game. Or they don'thave an effective demand generation

(41:16):
piece at the top of thefunnel. All of their marketing is
at the bottom of the funnel.So they're just chasing the same
customer that the retailer ischasing and it just doesn't work.
Right. I mean you look at the,on runnings of the world or the Hokas
or the whatever, the folksthat are generating that big demand,
they don't have a problem.Right. It's the folks that are scrapping
for that last, last bottom ofthe funnel sale that are in trouble.

(41:38):
And it takes, I think one oftwo things. It takes either a somebody
within the brand to say, holdon, we need to take a step back here
from an inventory perspectiveand cut way back, cut back to what
we can actually support andthen rebuild from there. Which is
really hard to do and reallyhard to get buy in to do that from
the ownership or the PE firmor whatever. Right. That's some tough

(42:02):
love right there. The otheraspect is, you know, saying, hey,
listen, we're going to takeour marketing budget and Instead
of being 10% top of thefunnel, 90% bottom of the funnel,
we're going to go 70, 30 theother way. And guess what? Sales
are going to suck for like 12months. Right. @ least. Right. While
we, while we recalibrate thatand start to refill the funnel. But

(42:23):
then things will, you know,things will be better ahead. And
that's, that's what happenedwith them with New Balance. Actually.
New Balance went through that.It was 18 months of sales just down
the toilet. And then, but theyjust invest and invest and invest
on top of the funnel and thenit turned around. So it takes really
tough decisions and disciplineto make it happen.

(42:43):
I think you just went for thewhole zombie brand conversation we've
had was pretty subjective whenwe first started talking about it.
It's like, oh, a brand thatused to be relevant, that isn't as
relevant and kind of like youknow it when you see it kind of thing.
I think you just described theformula of what an actual zombie
brand is. Right. Because ifall you're doing is discounting to
stay in business, but you'renever going to break free of that
cycle, that's kind of whatyou've turned into at that point.

(43:04):
Because to your point,retailers aren't going to trust you
to go and do somethingMeaningful in that arena at this
point, you're like, well,okay, if we dial back, we're going
to lose X amount of revenue,which means we can't operate anymore.
But you're not really makingany money because you're sacrificing
all of your margin to discountit all. I mean, that's really what
a zombie brand is at the endof the day, isn't it?
Right. Because the discountingundercuts everything. It undercuts

(43:26):
your pricing discipline, itundercuts your value in the consumer's
eyes. It absolutely undercutsyour value from a retailer's perspective.
If they've got to competeagainst the D2C brand, that's discounting
or breaking their own mappolicies, or you name it, it's a
race to the bottom or sellingit at Costco. I mean, whatever. Right?
I mean, it's a. Yeah. And itjust, it comes from chasing top line

(43:50):
sales at all costs and notsupporting it with the demand generation
to support those sales.
It's time for a parting shot.
All right, so for today, forthe parting shot.
Hold on, hold on, hold on.Colin, before you get into whatever
you were going to ramble onabout, I think, as you know, I was

(44:15):
a little upset about not beingpart of the 90s music playlist. And
clearly, clearly there weremultiple bands that were left out.
So I have actually developedmy own 90s playlist. And oh, by the
way, you're kicking.
In the door with your own playlist.
I'm kicking their ownplaylist. And I want to go. I think
we do another vote. Okay,Playlist versus playlist. Let's see

(44:38):
who wins.
Oh, God. We're going to runanother poll. We didn't do a poll
with the playlist. You want usto put up a poll?
I do, because I know I'm goingto kick your ass.
Okay, all right, all right.Well, hold on. The whole point of
the playlist, so, like, youneeded to have like, what's. What
are you listening? What areyou doing while you're doing your,
like, what's the context oflistening to this playlist?
No, there was no. The onlycontext was let's get as many bands

(44:59):
on this playlist that Colinand co totally forgot about.
That was like, I'm on amountain bike ride. This is what
I want to listen to.
I think if the answer isanything other than not caring, then
it's not a 90s playlist.
You know what, actually thisis a good point. This is the spite
playlist, which is a very 90ssentiment. So that's exactly right.

(45:19):
So, speaking of.
All right, what do you got?
Okay, speaking of spite, I'mstarting off with Head Like a Hole
by Nine Inch Nails.
All right.
I mean, if ever there was a CDscene just filled with venom, like
from. From head like a hole toring finger. I mean, just. Ah, beautiful.
Right? So. So that's 1990.Then we're going to roll into 91.

(45:41):
Okay.
Yeah.
And I'm pretty sure all ofthese bands, as amazing as they are,
didn't make any of yourplaylists, just FYI. Okay, so Nine
Inch Nails. So my second oneis Black by Pearl Jam. So obviously
off of doing Black isn't.
Like an outdoorsy song. Youcan't be out there riding around
your mouth.

(46:01):
Oh, Lauryn Hill is anoutdoorsy song. I mean, what are
you talking about?
Dave and Shantae. I mean, comeon. I can't speak. I mean, sorry.
Not Dave. Sorry, Doug. Doug.Sorry. Doug and Shantae.
Sorry.
Too many D names. So I didmention Pearl Jam and I did mention
Nine Inch Nails, but keep going.
Okay. All right. But youdidn't pick them, though.
I didn't pick them.
Okay, so, yeah. So Black Bay,Pearl jam, off of 10, obviously amazing

(46:24):
album. Just great album.
One of my all time favorites.
Even Flo Jeremy. I mean, just.Right. But Black would be my choice
there for that one. 1 92.Killing in the Name, Rage against
the Machine.
Okay, that was an. Iconsidered that one for that.
Is that. That I listened tothat cd, like on repeat. That was
just. Yeah. And honorablemention to Someone to Shove by Soul

(46:46):
Asylum, by the way, for 92.But they just didn't quite make the
list.
Contrast there.
Yeah. Well, hey, you know,hey, the mosh pit was the place to
be back in the day. Okay. 93,Creep by Radiohead. Okay.
Radiohead made the list. Thedog had just. They had just by.
Okay, fine. All right. Okay,well, we'll leave that one then.

(47:10):
94 actually was. There were somany good bands at the beginning,
it got little thin towards the end.
That was my experience too.
Right. Yeah. So I actuallywent with Interstate love song by
Stp Stone Copilot.
I love that song.
Rip Scott. So just. Yeah.Another one of those CDs to listen
to on Repeat. The Honorablemention there for that year, and

(47:34):
this was a tough choice wasSoundgarden, Black Hole Sun. Super
Unknown. Just an Amazing,amazing CD. 95. I don't think you
guys mentioned Green Day.
Green Day did not get amention here.
Right. Okay. When I comearound from Dookie, another CD that
Was just.
That's kind of a chalk pick,but okay.
Oh, whoa. Please. Okay, fine.Chalk pick. What the fuck does that

(47:57):
mean?
Of course, like, one of themost overplayed songs in the 90s.
Like, you know, can't havethat on the playlist. That's such
a.
Like, you know, Basket Case,welcome to Paradise.
I go Basket Case. Probablywelcome to paradise would be good.
Yeah, Basket Case, actually.Probably. But okay.
But they deserve to mention.You're right.
Yeah. I think actually theproblem was that actually I wanted
to do welcome to paradise, butit was. I think that one came out

(48:18):
in 94, so I had. I had to. Ihad work to do. Fit it all in. Right.
And that comes up later.You'll see again. So 96, what I got
by Sublime. I know you're ahater. Apparently. I'm Shanti.
Shantae was a hater. I like.That's one of my. What I got is the
remix or the. Or the studio. Ilike the remix one.

(48:39):
Well, actually, again, that'sanother one where the CD was more
than the individual song. LikeDoing Time is actually probably my
favorite song on that album.Or April 29, 1992 is another just
awesome song.
I'm trying to picture youngOwen listening to Rage Against Machine
and Sublime. Like zippingaround in your Corolla or whatever.

(49:00):
You're driving Ivan back inthe day.
Eagle Talon, tsi, Turbo Baby.Oh, yeah, yeah. And then actually,
Honorable Mention, it would.Would be Oasis, so a little bit softer
from that same year. Andthat's kind of also Shout out to.
I actually listened to a lotof the sort of the Brit pop type.

(49:21):
Sure. So like, you know, StoneRoses, Charlatans, James, et cetera,
but none of them actually madeit to the top of the list. Okay,
so 97. All right. So to proveI have a softer side, I was getting
married at the time atCriminal by Fiona Apple.
Okay, that's a good song.
Yeah, that is a good video,too. Again, that CD title, just Repeat.

(49:44):
Just loved every song on it.Okay, getting into 98, this is where
it starts to get a littlethin. And so I have to admit I sort
of stacked things here towhere I picked bands that. I actually
preferred their stuff earlierin the decade. But they did. Did
put out a song in 98, so Icould then choose them. And so in
this case, it was one week byBare Naked Ladies.

(50:05):
Okay.
Okay. And so big Bare Naked Ladies.
That came out in 98.
It did. But their best stuffwas really Gordon in 92. And it's
also this is a bit of a shoutout. So I was in Detroit, where we
get a lot of great Canadianstuff on the radio that maybe you
didn't get the rest of thecountry, like the Pursuit of Happiness,

(50:25):
Our Lady Peace, the tragicallyHip City in Color. I mean, most of
these bands, people.
Are gonna go, okay, fine.
Okay. And finally, finally,the last one is Learn to Fly by the
Foo Fighters. Again, I'mcheating a little bit here because
actually their best album wasthe color and the shape in 97 that

(50:47):
had everlong, My Hero, etcetera. But still, it counts. And
we got Foo Fighters on thelist too. So there you go.
Good list. I like your list.Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah, I don't know, we'll seeif Shantae and Doug ever talk to
you again, but, you know, it'sa. Listen, My only parting shot that
I was gonna say is that SGBrecently featured an interview with

(51:09):
turtlefur's new CEO andproducer Dave didn't bring it up
today. How dare you, Producer Dave.
How could I get a word inedgewise with all of that? Are you
kidding me? I would havepointed out though, in that article,
the quote that stood out to meis that they're gonna be louder,
prouder, and expand the loveand loyalty of a new generation of

(51:30):
outdoor enthusiasts. So spoton. That's what you get to do when
you have VC money coming in.So go talk to that consumer, expand
that marketplace. Good for them.
And play Owens list on repeat.Turtle for that's the only other
thing we can do. You can tellyou there.
Absolutely.
Yes.
All right. Good job today,guys. That's the show. Everyone.
We want your emails like wesaid. Send them to myrockfight gmail.com.

(51:53):
especially you, Todd, Frankeven. We have a lot to live up to
after this episode. The RockFight's a production of Rock Fight
llc. Today was produced.Today's episode was produced by producer
Dave, art direction providedby Sarah Gansert. For Owen Comerford,
I'm Colin True. Thanks forlistening. And once again, Less Than
Jake does not make a top 1090s list. But Kristen makes us here
anyway to sing the Rock FightFight song.
It's nice of him.
We'll see you next time. Rock Fighters.

(52:14):
Rock Fight. Rock Fight. RockFight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Welcome
to the Rock Bike where wespeak our truth, slay sacred cows,
and sometimes agree todisagree. We talk about human powered
outdoor activities and bigbites about topics that we find interesting

(52:39):
like pop culture, music, thelatest movie reviews, ideas that
aim for the head. This iswhere we speak our truth. This is
where we speak our truth. Rockflight. Rock flight. Rock fight.
Welcome to the Rock flight.Rock flight. Rock flight. Welcome
to the Rock flight. Rockflight. Rock flight. Rock flight.

(53:03):
Rock fight. Rock fight.Welcome to the rock fight. Rock fight.
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rockflight Fight.