October 6, 2025 • 42 mins
Today on The Rock Fight, Colin, Eoin Comerford, and Producer Dave tackle a packed week of outdoor industry news!
First up, the crew reacts to the latest ripple effects of Outdoor Retailer’s Minnesota move and whether the industry is being too quick to jump on the “OR is back” bandwagon. With questions around the “Leadership Village,” the role of run and lifestyle categories, and whether the show truly knows who it’s for, Colin and Eoin argue that defining the audience is the only way forward. (05:56)
Next, the conversation turns to Bass Pro’s acquisition of Hobie. Once a pioneering surf and sailing brand turned kayak powerhouse, Hobie has faced dealer frustration, supply chain nightmares, and brand drift. Will Bass Pro revive Hobie, turn it into a house brand, or alienate specialty retailers even further? Dave dives into Hobie’s rich heritage and what Bass Pro could do with the name; if they think beyond fishing kayaks. (13:23)
The lightning round brings more industry headlines (21:20):
- Kohl’s pushes its FLX line into kids’ activewear.
- Keen jumps into the crowded trail running shoe market with “The Seek.”
- Arc’teryx shrugs off PR fallout from its controversial Himalayan fireworks stunt.
Support those who support The Rock Fight! Today's sponsors: Ibex, Fjallraven, Lems Shoes, Royal Robbins, and Conatus Counsel! (26:18)
Finally, the hosts analyze REI’s new strategic plan, Peak 28. With four lofty pillars—culture, assortment, service, and membership—the co-op hints at big changes ahead. But with payroll bloat, declining margins, and vague promises, the question remains: will REI truly reinvent itself, or is this just frosting on an underbaked cake? (30:37)
The show closes with The Parting Shot presented by Garage Grown Gear, celebrating a big week for women-led outdoor brands like Wild Rye, Gnara, and Title Nine’s Pitchfest. Proof that despite the challenges, inspiring things are happening across the outdoor landscape. (39:59)
Thanks for listening! The Rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight, LLC.
Sign up for NEWS FROM THE FRONT, Rock Fight's semi-weekly newsletter by heading to www.rockfight.co and clicking Join The Mailing List.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
This just in. Breaking newsfrom the Rock Fight. A group of San
Francisco based tech investorshave announced they are launching
a subscription basedpublishing ecosystem of adult themed
outdoor magazines. Gear Hunkyplus will debut this spring with
an orgy of coverage of allthings uncovered outside. The first
issue will feature AlexiHandhold's attempt at the first clothing
(00:23):
free solo of El Capitan inYosemite, complete with centerfold
listicles and affiliate links.Gearhunky plus glossy full color
print editions harken back toa day when people had to pay for
their adult outdoor content orfind it in the woods behind their
house like everyone else.
While that may not be true,you know what is true? Ibex Merino
(00:45):
is as home in your shop asduct tape on Denali. We're talking
authentic heritage, realsustainability, privately owned and
of course premium performancethat has become legendary. From everyday
essentials like the goatee toexpedition ready pieces like the
mammoth hoodie, Ibex has apremium merino lair ready to outfit
any of your customers.Schedule some time with their team
(01:05):
at GEOA Connect in Kansas Citythis November. You know, maybe it's
time to make a little room forthe goat in your store. Welcome to
the Rock Fight where we speakour truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes,
(01:26):
sometimes agree to disagree.This is an outdoor podcast that aims
for the head. I'm Colin Trueand joining me today, they've packed
their trade show bags andthey're on their way to Minnesota
for a 10 month outdoorretailer tailgate. It's the Monday
boys. Owen Comerford andproducer Dave. What's up guys? I
love that. You never know whatI'm gonna say. It makes me so happy.
(01:48):
I just.
Just don't even know where to go.
Come on, you're headed out.You're so excited about the news.
Just gonna soda for the crazy,crazy week.
Right?
I go, I go away week people.
Right? And the prospect of $12soft drinks and cold sandwiches.
She's gonna live. Are therebuc ee's along the way between your
respective homes in Minnesota?I hope Bucky's having a moment on
(02:12):
like Instagram reels and tick tock.
I don't think so.
No Buc EE's? No, they'respawning as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, right.
What's the percentage of theglobal supply chain and stuff in
Buc EE's? I think there'sprobably sp pretty high.
Amount right there, right?It's impressive.
Yeah, that's one word.
It is impressive.
All right, well, today we'regoing to offer some follow up thoughts
(02:33):
to the big outdoor retailernews as well as weigh in on the latest
from REI and some otherheadlines to come out of the outdoor
industry. But first, someprogramming reminders. We never want
you to miss an episode of theRock Fight, so please click follow
on the podcast app you areusing right now on no new open container
tomorrow we're taking a weekoff or so to reload the container
with some fresh stories.Working on a bunch of amazing things
(02:53):
happening over there with DougSchnitzbahn. But you will on Thursday
get an all new new episode ofGear Abbey with host Shante Salibair
who answers all of yourburning outdoor questions. So make
sure you're following both ofthose podcasts.
And gotta ask you like Colinon the Gear Abbey front, do we. Does
it come with any kind ofwarning? Because I just listened
(03:14):
to the last episode and twophrases stick in my mind banging
animals and the other one ispoo stew. Okay, those are two actual
phrases from that show and Ifeel like there should be like if
you're in any way squeamish, Idon't know, some sort.
Of parental warning, I don't know.
(03:37):
Yeah, pretty sure those werethe warm up acts at the Hawthorne
Theater last night.
Ah, Poo Stew is a good band.
I'm just saying. Yeah, right.
I don't want to speak forShantae. She's not here to defend
herself. But my guess is thatI think she's writing these episodes
with how can I offend Owen in mind.
I don't feel offended. I just.It's just like, okay, we went there.
(04:00):
Oh, we went there too.
Okay, cool.
About our whole episode wherewe talked about horny salmon. So
that was.
Wow. Okay, sorry. Yes, please.Back to our regular.
Can't wait for her to hearthis. Dave, what should our listeners
do if they want more from theRock Fight?
Well, I guess if you want morefrom the Rock Fight, you're gonna
have to subscribe to thenewsletter News from the Front, our
(04:23):
semi weekly newsletter, semimonthly newsletter, Rockfight Co.
Rockfight Co. Sign up today.
And Owen, you know, if we wantto hear from you, you specifically,
since you left us, how can wehear from you? No, how can our listeners
write into the Rock Fight?
This is a tough question.Well, they should email us@myrockfightmail.com
(04:46):
they can also reach out to uson LinkedIn. Just search up the Rock
Fight or on Instagram where weare Rock Fight Co. All one word and
slip into Collins DMs.
How are we feeling about thestate of LinkedIn?
These days, LinkedIn.
LinkedIn. Is it still as funas it was like a year ago or, you
(05:07):
know, are we getting jaded?
Was LinkedIn ever fun? No, no.I don't know. I mean, I would say
so much of LinkedIn is justself congratulatory bullshit. It
actually, it's, it's good forme because I, you know, actually
spent some time trying to puttogether some content that has some
(05:27):
thought and worthwhile andisn't all about how brilliant I am.
Although that's the underlyingcurrent, obviously.
Did you notice how smart I am?
Yeah. Do you notice? So, butyeah, yeah, no. So much of it is
just horseshit or people whoare just sort of fishing for follows
or oh, isn't working from homegreat or whatever. Whatever. Yeah.
(05:51):
But I find actually some goodcontent out there.
All right, so first thing Iwant to talk about today is a little
bit more on the big news oflast week, which was the outdoor
retailer, news of the show,moving to Minnesota and moving to
August. So we're recordingthis today. After Owen and I chatted
with Sunny and Lindsey aboutall of that, we heard from a lot
of people in the last 24hours. And so I have some follow
(06:11):
up thoughts that I want todiscuss with you guys. And also we
need to get Dave's take onthis. The first one is. And back
to our LinkedIn conversation.Oh, and like shiny object syndrome.
I feel like in the outdoorindustry is real. I saw a lot of
people, both personal textmessages on LinkedIn and in some
other places, people have justbeen pouring dirt on outdoor retailer.
And then a lot of the messagesand posts I saw being like, hey,
(06:32):
or is back. They're moving toMinnesota. So I thought that was
kind of funny, like just howeasily excited a lot of folks in
the industry are.
It's actually a more positivereaction than I would have expected.
So. Okay, cool.
But it does seem, you know,it's a little disingenuous. Like,
you know, I don't think theygot it anymore. I can't go to or
anymore. Now it's like, areyou moving to Minnesota? Oh, yeah.
I always believed in you.
We'll see. Will peopleactually, you know, be excited to
(06:57):
get away from their, theirLinkedIn keyboards and on a plane?
So that's going to be the big question.
The second thing is, and wetalked a little bit about this with
Lindsey and Sunny and I thinkOwen, you and I did as well. I am
a little concerned about theold school kind of outdoor approach
this team is starting out on.Right. The leadership Village, as
they're calling themselves.It's a very much an industry, old
school kind of outdoorindustry group of folks. The first
(07:20):
roster kind of feels likewe've been here before. So I do want
to see where this plays out.Like we talked about, you know, run
and casual, those are thedriving categories right now for
outdoor. And I think for themto find success, I think that I just
want to reiterate, I thinkthat is going to have to be addressed
at some.
Point or 2.0, which I'm nowcalling this, or 2.0. It can't just
(07:41):
be you're not going to getback to or those days are over. I
think you've had thatconversation many times with Sean
and others. So, yeah, you needto develop a show for today, not
for 10 years ago. And I thinkthey will need to expand the roster
a little bit to get some ofthat in here as.
(08:03):
They'Re looking to do that. Ithink if they really want to enjoy
is my last point. And I wantto hear. Dave, want you to jump in
here with your thoughts. Youhaven't had a chance at talk about
it yet. If they really wantedto get to that return to form. And
again, I think we said this,it was one of the first questions
I asked Lindsey. You got todefine who the show is for and give
those people a reason to showup. And I'm not just saying that's
for or I think Switchback hasa similar challenge. Anybody who's
(08:25):
making a show or putting on ashow, this is something that there's
a lot of options out there.There's a lot of things that people
can come and do and placesthey can spend their time. And I'm
not sure, and I'm not reallytalking about the industry days and
the panels. I don't thinkthose things are enough. I was actually
catching up with our friend ofthe pod, Wes Allen, who owns a brick
and mortar shop and Cod,Wyoming. He's been on the show multiple
times. I'm sure we'll behaving him on again sometime in the
(08:45):
near future. You know, he'sconsistently lamented any shows being
other than GOA being held inJune. And he loves the idea of the
show being in August, butthat's because he is a brick and
mortar retailer who has a lotto do in June. So if he's the target
audience, if the GOA accountsare the target audience, then yeah,
this is kind of like a homerun for that. Like, you know, hey,
the people we want to havecome here, here's who's going to
(09:07):
come. This is what they'relooking for. We're going to accommodate
that.
But they, in fairness, theyanswered that question and they said
very clearly it was brands andretailers. This is a show for those
folks. And so, you know, likewe said in the show on Friday, if
ultimately, if all of thesethings doesn't move the needle for
those folks and get them backto the show, then it didn't work.
(09:30):
You're absolutely right. Ithink what I'm saying is the. A lot
of the. I don't want to callit fluff, a lot of the sort of other
parts of the announcement interms of the panels and the events
and stuff like that kind ofovershadowed that piece of it. And
I think a simple message tothe people you really want to have
come and the value in that andit's not in having an industry day
and those kinds of things. Ithink that's kind of what I'm getting
(09:51):
at. I think that's sort of themake the proposition. This is what
we have. Here's why you come.And then you can do all of those
other things. Right. Just tohave them happen. But it needs to
be. That's the frosting.That's not the cake, I guess, is
what I'm saying.
Totally. And, you know, it'sthe classic chicken or the egg scenario,
which is, you know, we've gotto get the brands to get the retailers,
(10:13):
but we have to have theretailers show up to keep the brands
coming and vice versa, youknow, and we saw that. I think we
saw that in the firstswitchback, where I would say we
have more brands thanretailers. So I think, if anything,
I think they're leaning on theretailer side this time with the
GOA Scholarship and that kindof piece. To me, the bigger question
is brands. If you don't getsome core brands showing up, then
(10:35):
I think it's going to be tricky.
All right, Dave, get in here.It's your first time. Everybody stand
back. It's been since Thursdayof last week.
Setting this way.
No one's heard thoughts.
What is there to say? You guyshave covered it all.
All right, good.
I mean, look, you know,creating a unique and compelling
reason to show up. That'severy brand's challenge is to do
(10:56):
that. So that's no differentthan anybody else. It has been their
unique challenge, for sure.You know, we still haven't answered
the question, does theindustry need multiple national shows
for retailers and brands? Idon't know the answer to that question.
I'm just saying that that'sone that's out there kind of where
(11:16):
you guys were just talkingabout, too, in terms of, you know,
it's about retailers, it'sabout brands. I'm not sure that they
haven't gone through all theexercise of what can be radically
rethought. Right. I thinktiming, okay, that's always the issue
for everybody. But what setup,what format would make this so compelling
as to have to be there? Youknow, is this the speed dating of
(11:40):
trade shows? And everybodygets a table, not a booth. And one
after the other, and it's alower cost to get into. And I don't
know, is there just somethingthat uses technology? Plus, the IRL
leaves more time for mixing,but it compels people to come in
and be able to do business inone or two days.
Right.
Bam. Get in there. And again,I don't just. It's just more of an
(12:01):
idea of just how do we makethis such a compelling format that
is distinct and unique anddifferent the way we've always done
it and start building? Becausemaybe the second year of this version
doesn't look like the first,doesn't look like the third. Right.
But at least, what is that toget out of the door and just remake
how we interact together.
(12:21):
And this is why it's such acompelling thing. I need to talk
about and why we do talk abouttrade shows so much. And we're interested
in it because. Right. As yousaid that, like, what about a table?
I'm like, well, then like abrand like the North Face could BRINGING
what, like three products? Imean, like, you can't get your. They
can probably get their lineinto a 20 by 20 booth because it's
so big. Right. They can't showtheir whole line. So. But you know
what I mean, like, immediatelyyou're like, okay, well, there's
nits to pick. But then if youdon't do that, then you're back to,
(12:43):
well, we all have big boothsagain. I mean, it's like, it's totally.
There's no real black andwhite solution to any of these things,
which I think what makes it so compelling.
Yeah, right, right. There'sworkarounds for all of that.
I do want to share with youguys, and I won't say who it is,
but I was texting withsomebody else in outdoor media about
all this, and we werementioning, you know, the Minnesota
of it all and the Lloyd Vogelof it all, and they wrote to me,
(13:06):
hot take Lloyd is the TraderJoe of outdoor gear. And I'm like,
yes, can we get Trader LloydMerch going immediately.
We need him in a Hawaiian shirt.
Yeah, Trader LLOYD Comingsummer 2026.
Yes, I want that. I want atote bag.
All right, first story thatreally get into this week, aside
(13:26):
from stuff we talked aboutlast week, per Kayak Angler mag,
retailer Bass Pro Shops hasacquired Hobie and will move production
of Hobie products from Mexicoto Bass Pro's Missouri based factory.
Since the last sale of thecompany in 2021, Hobie has endured
a myriad of issues, let's say,with dealers facing backlogged orders
and copious warranty claims.On top of that, there are new concerns
(13:47):
with Bass Pro's ownership whenit comes to how specialty retailers
will be serviced. And that'sputting. There's a lot left out in
that little synopsis there. Icould talk for the next five minutes
about the issues they faced.
Can I give you my favoriteHobie story? So this was sort of
the in between story with thenew buyers. A different kayak brand
(14:09):
was visiting a paddle sportsdealer. Okay. And they asked to use
the wi fi and the guy's kindof sheep and asked for the password.
And the guy's kind of sheep,as he said, well, the password is
fuck Hobie. And so they'relike, okay, we gotta get the backstory
on that. And basically thebackstory was Hobie to hit some of
(14:29):
their credit terms, theyneeded to realize revenue. So they
didn't tell the retailer andthey just shipped them a truckload,
literally a semi full ofkayaks to show up on December 24,
Christmas Eve, while they'rein the throws. Yes. In the throes
of trying to service theircustomers who are trying to get all
(14:52):
the last minute shopping. Itshows up, pull it. They got to pull
people off the shop floor tounload this, this semi complete disaster.
So anyway, I'm not going toname the retailer or whatever, but
yeah, so that was kind of partlike, if that gives you a sense of
what folks were dealing withwith the last version of Hobie, it
(15:13):
wasn't great. You're not goingto find a lot of people in the industry
that.
Oh, and but were they. Werethey pedal powered guys?
Yes, they were.
I'm just checking.
Okay. All right, good.
There's so much there. I'mtrying to picture the person at Hobie
that's like, we got to makeour number. It just ship them a bunch
of kayaks. Then who did it?How do they decide who to ship it
to? Who's the biggest suckerwho might actually pay the bill?
(15:34):
All Right.
Those guys. Great Senate. Whenshould arrive? I don't care. Get
it there before December 27th.We have to. We have to have it in.
Boom. Exactly. It's got to. Wegot to get all of these kayaks delivered
so we can recognize therevenue before the end of the year.
This is like, this is thebusiness version of the brand asshole.
Dave. Like, what is this? Likethe supply chain asshole? Like, I
don't know what we call this.Like, it just sort of like who kicks
in the door on. This is like,no, no, guys, you cannot do this.
(15:57):
You're going.
This is the.
Just the.
Yeah.
Wow. Well, I mean, that's kindof. That's getting into like, what
I wanted to ask you, Owen,because, I mean, they're. It's an
old brand. I mean, they'relike a first ballot hall of fame
outdoor brand.
Right.
And it's been a rough fewyears, but it also doesn't sound
like Bass Pro is maybe anatural owner for them. I mean, what's
(16:18):
the motivation for Bass Pro in this?
Oh, maybe this is. I thinkit's a home run for Bass Pro. I mean,
they are. They are getting thefishing kayak brand. The fishing
kayak brand for I. I'mguessing a pretty nice discount because,
you know, things are notgreat. I'm sure a lot less than whoever,
whatever they paid for thebrand, you know, four years ago.
So they're getting thisamazing brand. Like Hobie hosted
(16:42):
the Hobie Bass Open Series.Right. I mean, they are, they are
the kayakers, the anglerskayak. Really. Right. I mean, they,
they really.
Some of the pushback fromdealers. Like, they don't. They're
worried about Bass Pro owningthem from deal perspective. So is
it just a. Like, screw thespecialty dealers. This is just a
Bass Pro brand now? Is thathow this is going to go? Probably.
I think there's a number ofways that this could go. So Bass
(17:06):
Pro may just say, hey, nowit's just. It's basically a private
brand for Bass Pro. You know,it's. It's under their. Their. Their
White River Marine Group. Andyou know, if you want to. To get
Hobie, you're going to have tocome to Bas Pro. That's one option.
Right. In which case,obviously the. The dealers are. Are.
Are sort of fully out of now.Well, in, in that, in that scenario,
potentially the dealers,they're servicing the products and
(17:30):
doing some other pieces, andmaybe they're selling accessories
or aftermarket accessories orwhatever for the Hobie product. So
it might work. I mean, Most ofthese dealers have been surviving
without Hobie boats for twoyears anyway. So, like, I guess,
what's the difference? But. Sothat's sort of one option. I don't
think. I don't think they'llgo that way. You never know. That's
(17:51):
possible. The other one issort of a tweener where they say,
okay, we're going to havemaybe more of a different line, maybe
more of an opening price pointline for Bass Pro and then a premium
line for the Independentchannel, which could be good or bad,
depending on how those, thosetwo are kind of positioned. Or they
just say, no, no, no. Hobie isstill Hobie, and we're selling to
(18:12):
Bass Pro is one of ourcustomers. We're selling to the other
folks as well, and we're goingto fix all of the supply chain stuff
and, you know, which would begreat news for the independent specialty
guys. So it really could goabove a bunch of different ways,
and they haven't reallyindicated which way at this point.
So, Dave, with all thosestories, I hand you the keys to the
(18:33):
Hobie brand. They say all thedistribute. What do you do? What
do you do with this, Dave? Howdo you recover?
Well, recover, I guess. Whatare you trying to recover? Like Owen
said, segmentation would bethe first kind of approach. They
are a vessel brand now.They're a fishing brand. That they
(18:53):
have become this. And forthose that don't know, Hobie started
in the 50s, was one of thefirst to use like fiberglass, you.
Know, into surfboards, then acatamaran branch. Right. I mean,
that was that.
Well, that wasn't even untilthe 60s. That wasn't even until the
late 60s. Right. So for 15years, they were this core surf brand
(19:14):
in Southern California.
It is.
I don't know if it's settledlaw, rather, they invented the polyurethane
skate wheel for skateboards inthe mid-60s, early-60s, like, so
they were such a part of boardrider culture in Southern California.
Like, like you said all theway back, this is the body gloves.
And, you know, in that kindof. That world and in the late 60s,
(19:37):
made this shift to fiberglass,like the holes, like, okay, the catamaran,
and really kind of blew thewhole sale. And for the 70s and 80s
were really a part of sailculture and bringing that up. And
of course that kind of, youknow, rode the 80s and they became
a licensing brand. And now yougot sunglasses and all these other
swimwear and just everythingpart of that world. But then in the
(19:59):
last 15 years, 20 years, thisis where they've pivoted really into
being a fishing first. Youknow, like I said, vessel brand,
like you can kind of geteverything. So that's what the. That's
what Bass Pro is buying today.Is that right? A piece. But if you
say, what would you do withit? Yeah, cultivate that. Create
some segmentation of theirpremium line and their vessels. But
(20:19):
the real kind of gem here, andwe talk all about soft goods, is,
man, this is a legitimate surfbrand that you could develop on.
I mean, there's a wholecategory of surf birdwell to hang
10 to catons that all play offof this so that you could separate
those out and create kind of adifferent type of brand for people
to be reintroduced to,separate from this fishing work.
(20:42):
Because fishing kind of looksa little bit like NASCAR in terms
of the way it brands. Right.It's like more like aftermarket car
parts. It's just. It's not thesame type of branding stories that
you would tell in a heritagesurf brand and a certain kind of
products. But you could seehow that maybe could live together
and extend its customer off ofthat same authenticity.
All right, Bass Pro, we heardhim give Dave a call. He's got some
ideas for you.
(21:03):
Right. Come on.
No, we're just going to makefishing boats.
Yeah, yeah, we're just goingto make.
We're going to make pedalpowered kayaks.
D I think they're just goingto make pedal power kayaks. Yeah.
Right. Well, you. But youcould do this though.
But you could, but you could.
All right, guys, you ready forthe Lightning round?
(21:24):
Lightning round.
First up in the Lightninground, per retail dive, Kohl's expanding
their private label FLXactivewear line to include products
specifically for kids. So,Owen, you're our business consigliere.
Like, just how big is theuntapped children's crossfit and
yoga market? It's gotta behuge, right?
(21:45):
Massive. Absolutely. I don'tknow. I think that there. There is
always a market for littlegirls that want to look like mom
and maybe little boys, too. Idon't know, but I don't know how
huge it is. Also, thechallenge with the kids market in
general is it tends to be veryprice point and discount oriented.
(22:05):
We used to sell strollers backat Moose Trout. We just gave up.
It's just like full price. Younever sold a stroller. You went on
sale. Oh, we sell a millionstrollers. I mean, it's just. Yeah.
And then the other challengeis that there's a lot of make that
goes into these Things there'salmost much make or labor that goes
into a pair of, you know, 12year old girls leggings as there
(22:26):
go as that goes into a women'smedium's leggings. Right. You know,
yes, a little bit lessmaterial, but the price expectation
is so much lower. So I don'tknow, it's a tough business. Yeah.
So it's not just that. Theupside is that, you know, the people
making the stuff are also thefit models for the stuff themselves.
Or.
Okay, not touching that one, Colin.
(22:50):
All right, Dave, next one'sfor you. Per Trailheads by Switchback
footwear brand Keen hasunveiled a new shoe called the Seek.
Would you like to take a guessat what kind of shoe this is, Dave?
What are my choices, Colin?
Trail running. That's it?
Only just trail running?
What else would you make?
I'm gonna choose trail running.
Big winner here on the rockfight today.
(23:10):
Yeah, right, right. I amalways gonna support somebody who
sees a crowded opportunity.
Opportunity.
Who sharpens those elbows andsays, you know what? There is room
for me too.
It's the mosh pit approach.
All kidding aside, I havelooked at the shoe, looked at the
way they've been marketing itfor a while and actually, I gotta
say, I think this is right onfor Keen. I just, I think they're,
(23:32):
their product fits theprofile. They've been super clear
and clean in their languageand their points of how they're marketing.
It's very process driven,which is what you kind of expect
from Keen, but they're leaninginto the wider toe box, which is
definitely kind of the trenddu jour. It's still feature benefit
driven in terms of therationale. Right. But that's always
(23:53):
a great opening play. Myquestion with Keane is, well, what
are you gonna do next? Andwill you ever move to aspiration,
which is more emotional thanjust the literal kind of rational
piece to that. But that's thatnext play. But I have to say, just
from what I've seen overall,it's a really solid hitting all of
(24:14):
the. Hitting all of the marksin your go to market of the new technology
in their brand.
I totally agree with Dave. Ithink, you know, they made the Keen
tree running shoe, they didn'tmake a trail running shoe. So that's
right. That was the key. Likeif they had come out with a super
shoe with carbon fiber, yada,yada and all the stuff, right. I'd
be like, come on, Keen. No.
You think they think they didwear testing at the trails around
(24:36):
the Costco. You think that'swhere they did the testing for it.
Or that's a bunch of dads out there.
Bunch of dads. Yes.
Bunch of toddlers andstrollers. Hey, these are great.
They do come with a free pairof cargo shorts, in fairness.
All right, last one, Dave.Last week we said that arc' Teryx
would weather the PR hit fromtheir Himalayan fireworks display
without any real issue. Itappears it's already over as Wells
(24:59):
Fargo has upgraded Amor stockthis past week, indicating there's
no real concern with thepublic response to their mountain
art installation. I mean, whatshould other brands take away from
this, Dave? That detonationslead to explosive sales growth?
Deny, deny, deny, ignore,deny. That's what we've learned here.
And I'm pretty sure they'vefollowed along.
And blame the Chinese team.That's right. That's actually what
(25:23):
we've learned, to me is.
That's right.
The biggest takeaway actuallyis it really helps to have Chinese
ownership who are friendlywith the CCP and who can censor social
media. I guarantee you that ifthis had been a US or European owned
brand, this thing would befull throttle shit show right now
all over China, you know?Yeah. So.
(25:44):
Well, if that had been thecase, they wouldn't have gotten the
permits to do it in the first place.
There you go.
The world, guys. All right,all right, let's take a quick break
to hear from some sponsors andthen we come back. We're going to
get into the news from rei.All right, Winter's unpredictable,
guys. Mild one week, freezingthe next. You know, I grew up in
the mid Atlantic and everyinch of snow was exciting until it
melted into a soupy mess andthen make things worse, it would
(26:06):
refreeze in the driveway,making it impossible to walk across.
Going outside became its ownadventure, and that includes choosing
what to wear. And that's whypeople have trusted Fjallraven jackets
for more than 50 years. Bornand tested in Sweden, they're made
to handle everything fromeveryday cold to true arctic extremes.
The philosophy symbol simplebuild. Outerwear that performs, protects
and lasts. Oh, and I know youwere wearing Fjallraven on the golf
(26:28):
course last week. Not arcticconditions, but still it performed.
Yeah, well, it was a lovelyinsulated vest for those 50 degree
mornings.
Well, to be fair, we've seenOwen golf and there's a lot of hiking
involved, so I think thatprobably was a good call.
A lot of time in the. A lot oftime is spent in the woods.
That's right, the back country.
(26:50):
Oh, there's my Ball. From thecab Gore Tex jacket to the expedition
pack down hoodie, you'll findsomething to suit the winter conditions
you know are on the way foryour neck of the woods. And retailers
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your shop. Schedule anappointment with Fjallraven at GOA
Connect in Kansas City thisNovember. The rest of you, check
out fjallraven.com adventurouscalling. Are you ready to answer?
(27:13):
No.
I'm like asking you guys, areyou ready to take this call? Adventure's
calling.
Yes. Hello? Hello?
Coming early in November, Lemzis dropping a bold new lineup of
minimalist boots and trailshoes. Built to go wherever the season
takes you. Meet your new trailcompanions, the Trail Thrasher and
the Trailblazer Mid.Engineered with tough, full rubber
(27:34):
outsoles for serious grip anddesigned with an urban edge, they're
made to move seamlessly fromrugged backcountry treks to city
streets. And these are justtwo of the many new styles hitting
the lineup soon. Get ready toexplore more. And also retailers
again. I hope you'relistening, retailers. Be sure to
go see the Lem's team whenthey exhibit at Goa's Discovery Marketplace
at the Connect show in KansasCity this November.
(27:56):
What is an urban edge?
That's the curb you hit whenyou fall on the extra driveway.
That's right, a curb.
Yeah.
Ah, the urban edge got meright. All right, guys. A few weeks
ago we learned that mosquitoeskill more humans every year than
any other animal. Unlike theDalai Lama once said, if you think
you're too small to make adifference, try sleeping with a mosquito.
(28:16):
But I doubt the Dalai Lama wassleeping in the wilder pant from
Royal Robins. Because theWilderpant, like everything in Royal's
MPT collection, has mosquitoprotection technology. Relying on
protection throughconstruction. MPT is the chemical
free solution to mosquito freedays in the outdoors. Oh, and while
you were golfing, how was themosquito situation? A little late
in the season, but were they around?
I know I was on an island offthe coast of of the Upper Peninsula
(28:40):
of Michigan. So it, no, itwasn't bad. I think I did get one
bite though, in fairness.
To shop the entire MPTcollection for Royal Robins, head
to royalrobbins.com andretailers. Again, three times the
charm. Make sure you schedulean appointment with Royal Robbins
at GOA Connect in Kansas Citythis November.
We'll be there, right?
We will be there.
We will be there.
So yeah, schedule anappointment with Colin and Owen.
(29:01):
Absolutely. Say hi.
Don't let our Big timeproduction value and celebrity names
fool you. Looking at you,producer Dave. But Rockvite LLC is
a small business and growingbrand. And even though we have our
own consigliere, he advises onother matters. We've got to consult
a lawyer every now and then onthe legal structures that every business
needs. But for a smallbusiness like ours, the cost to hire
(29:22):
general counsel or pay aretainer is a non starter. So what's
an outdoorsy founder to do? Imean, come on, we're not flashing
that outside money. EnterConatus Council. They can help your
business with fractionalgeneral counsel and legal services.
From strategy consulting toadvocacy and government affairs to
real world implementation foroutdoor recreation industry businesses.
(29:43):
Forest over at KannadasCouncil has helped Rock Fight navigate
some of these areas. And letme tell you, knowing someone has
your back means you can focuson running your business. I mean,
he had at least three edits tothis read to quote, unquote, protect
us from ourselves. I mean,that's what I'm talking about. Forest
Care cares just as much aboutthe outdoors and the outdoor industry
as our listeners. So, gotquestions? Conatuscouncil.com to
(30:05):
get in touch with Forest. Thefirst six hours are free. Wait, what?
What? I can't say that. Oh,initial consultations are free. Okay,
fine. All right, guys. A lothappened last week, but besides the
outdoor retailer news, thebiggest story was REI's announcement
of a new strategic planthey're calling Peak 28. Via a letter
(30:25):
from CEO Mary Beth Lawton. Theannouncement attempts to lay out
the path the co op will betaking over the next three years,
including four strategicpillars that will guide their actions.
Those pillars are, number one,connected, focused and trailblazing
culture. Number two, authenticculturally leading assortment. Number
three, elevated service andexperience. Number four, reinvented
membership. I think theannouncement of this plan has led
(30:47):
to some confusion. Maybe therather true understanding of REI's
plan for the next three years.We'll talk about that in a second.
But to start off with Owen,you know, what was your initial response
to Peak 28?
Well, ultimately, you know,this plan has to get REI back to
profitability. That's thewhole deal here. And if you look
at the financials and dig inthe way I have, really, their biggest
(31:11):
P and L issues are twofold.One is very high payroll. So their
Payroll ballooned from 20% ofrevenue in 2019 pre Covid to 25%.
Okay, so that's a huge number.5% of revenue Delta there. So payroll
is a big issue. The second oneis margins Margins dropped from over
(31:32):
45% in 2019 to 40.4% in 2024.So between those two things, you've
got almost 10% of revenue thatwent away. And whatever this thing
is, whatever this planultimately turns out to be, has to
solve for those things. And Ithink it's really interesting that
in the memoir to employees, MBsaid that they're going to need to
(31:56):
make tough choices to do this.And, you know, I mean, prioritization
is part of any kind ofplanning process. But I really do
think that there are going tobe tough choices here. Like what,
you know, how are, how are wegoing to get here on the employee
side? I think some of thetough choices are going to be about,
like, we're talking aboutdoing all these great things. And
if you read the objectives,it's hard to disagree with them being
(32:18):
good objectives to have. Butit's like, okay, how do you do all
these things? How do, like,how do we solve for the payroll issue
and add all these experiencesand add all this new level of service
and add all those otherthings, you know, tricky, right?
And then, you know, how do weoffer all of the priced right assortment
and do all the rest of thestuff and a more differentiated membership
(32:42):
experience and solve for thegross margin issue, for example,
is part of this whole new andimagined membership. Does the dividend
change or go away as part ofthis? Because it's not really affordable
in the new world.
So is this kind of aconscious. Like, we're going to be
(33:04):
intentionally vague while kindof establish, kind of tipping our
hands towards. There's some,there's some pretty wholesale changes
coming to rei coming down theroad is kind of what. Is that how
you're reading this?
I think so. And I think, Ithink most people would agree that
there have to be wholesalechanges that structurally things
have to change to get to abetter place. The other challenge,
(33:24):
and I think this, what this isthe opening salvo to, is you have
to get the green vests onboard and you have to get the members
on board that this is the waythat we're going to go and that ultimately
it's the right answer for theco op long term. So I think putting
the, the, the objectives atfirst, which are all, you know, things
(33:45):
you can kind of get behind,is, is maybe like the step one. It's
the details, the devil in thedetails, then of like, okay, well,
okay, what's actually. What.What are those tough choices? And
is everybody going to be onboard with those tough choices?
All right, do you Want to gothrough each of these objectives
and kind of give us yourthoughts on them and see if we can
kind of figure out whatthey're trying to say here.
Sure. So let's start with thefirst, which is connected, focused
(34:08):
and trailbl. So I think someof the tough choices are, okay, what
roles need to change, whatroles are going to be added and more
importantly, what roles aregoing to be eliminated to become
this high performing cultureas the objective says. Then also
this talk about being apurpose led organization. Okay, what
(34:28):
purposes are we talking?Public lands, which I think that
they've come out more stronglyof late, DEI sustainability. So what
are those elements and are wegoing to have to pick and choose
there to have a bigger tent ora smaller tent, et cetera. So those
would be the first two, theauthentic, culturally leading assortment.
(34:49):
There's a lot of talk abouttheir target customer. Okay, well,
who is that target customer?Again, you got to make choices there.
Are you going to focus on thecore and that's who you're going
to be? Sort of old school,rei, backpack, climb, camp, whatever?
Or is our target customerlifestyle, casual, et cetera? Are
we going to broaden thatdefinition? And then when you do
(35:11):
that, okay, which brands andcategories are going to change? You've
only got, whatever it is,25,000 square feet in a store. Something's
got to give. Right. If you'regoing to go more after run, you're
going to go less after hike.Right. So those things are going
to be tough decisions in termsof open to buy. Some brands may no
longer be part of rei. Andthen the other piece is private label.
(35:32):
If we're going to do all thesethings, if we're going to deliver
this price right trend, rightassortment as it was called, is that
really that the REI privatebrand is going to be priced right
Trend. Right. And then we'regoing to basically fill that with
these other brands. So theseare all the kind of the big, the
big issues from an assortmentperspective. Then we get into elevated
(35:54):
service and experience again.Okay, how do we elevate service?
How do we elevate experiencewhen we really have to tackle payroll?
And then finally this wholereinvented membership thing. Okay,
we're going to have all ofthese highly differentiated offerings.
How do we add those withoutadding a whole bunch of cost? Does
it mean actually changing therebate? And so, yeah, a lot on the
(36:14):
table here.
Dave, before I move into thenext piece here, you and I had talked
about this off Mike, when itcomes to the experience and the service
piece of it. They made apretty big move recently to kind
of. That affected a lot of that.
Yeah, well, like Owen said,it's the details in all of these.
You can't really disagree withany of these. And more service and
experiences. Yeah, that'sgreat. However, they just did shed
(36:37):
that entire sector of theircompany. So that's a lot of institutional
knowledge that has just beendrifted away. And so how are you
going to bring that back intoit? You reinvented membership. Love
that. And, you know, Owenfocused on the dividend. But something
that they kind of helpedpioneer in the sense of this kind
of membership aspect in retailis now, I mean, so it's. Is there
(37:01):
just a new day of what thatmeans with subscription models and
the kind of the. The customerfocus and building that core, that
VIP aspect and brandexperiences? There's so much that
that could start to take onthat really, you know, that gets.
That gets to that, that, thatnew. That new membership.
But is for maybe for both ofyou. I mean, is there an upside to
talking about this now? Like,it seems there's. Are they up against
(37:24):
some meeting or deadline? Ithink it's fair to say this left
us wanting more. I mean, even,like the Gear Junkies newsletter
this week said it was kind ofa cryptic release. A lot of people
kind of wondering. There's alot of questions that have come out
of this. So, I mean, Iunderstand the motivation, especially
the way Owen. You described itin your color there, Dave, but I'm
not going to say it is halfbaked, but it feels a little like
we want more. Like, what doyou mean here? There's a lot of questions,
(37:46):
more than answers coming outof this to keep.
Our cake metaphors going here.I don't know, the cake is half baked,
but all we're seeing is thefrosting on top. Right? That's all
we're seeing. We don't knowwhat went into the cake. We don't
know what the ingredients are.We don't know anything about it.
It could be a brick under allthat frosting. We have no idea. So,
(38:07):
yeah, I think that's thebigger question. But by the same
token, I wouldn't expect themto lay out, oh, this is what all
this means. Boom, boom, boom,boom, boom, boom, boom. It makes
sense from a communicationstrategy to say, okay, well, let's
get the stuff out there thatpeople can kind of get behind, and
then changes are.
Coming, things are going tohappen, and.
Then we follow up with whatthat actually means. Yeah.
(38:27):
All right. Well, for ourlisteners, the Rock Fight. We've
been in touch with Rei. We'retrying to book MB to come on the
show and talk about Peak 28.We'll see. Rei is considering it.
We'll see how it goes. We hopewe can welcome her on the show to
kind of offer some of thatcolor. Maybe when they're ready to
do so. Also, while we're inthe REI world, they announced this
week several new board membersto fill three vacancies after elections
earlier this year. Those nameswere Eric Sprunk, who's formerly
(38:48):
of Nike, John Vandemore fromSkechers, and Lisa. Is it Bouget?
I'm going to assume. Buji. I'msorry, Lisa, if I'm messing up your
name. Bougie, a partner froman early stage VC fund that specializes
in climate tech. All three ofthem are joining REI's board. Owen,
can you glean anything frommaybe the go forward strategy for
REI from these appointments?
I mean, it's really more ofthe same in terms of whether it's
(39:12):
overall executive teamleadership or board leadership. You
know, it's the well troddenground of ex Nike execs and cpg folks.
You know, it's. This isn't anoutdoor focused team, but yeah, I
guess it's more of the same.
All right, well, like I said,hopefully we can bring MB on the
show to talk about us more.And regardless of that, we'll make
(39:33):
sure we weigh in on anythingelse new that comes out of rei. If
you want your gear grown in agarage, go to Garage Grown Gear.
Friend of the pod, Lloyd Vogeland Garage Growing Gear. Been with
the Rock Fight for a longtime. We love having them here. And
now they are the presentingsponsor of the Parting Shot. All
right, guys, part time for theParting Shot. Pretty short one today.
(39:56):
I just want to say congrats toformer Rock Fight guest Cassie Abel
of Wild Rye for the launch ofWild Rye's new outerwear line. Now,
we don't want to make a habitof calling out line extensions or
congratulating brands onlaunching new products here on the
Rock Fight, but if you've beenpaying attention, especially if they're
not.
Gonna pay us to do it.
Good point. If you wannaadvertise a show, man, we will talk
about you all day long. Comeon board. Water's warm.
(40:19):
Or if you introduce a trailrunning shoe.
Right, right. Yeah, true,true, true.
Now, now the line's gettinglong because.
Well, gotta get in line sometime.
But look, if you've beenpaying attention to way things have
unfolded this year and theimpact that the tariff situation
has had on brands like WildRye, then you have a small sense
of how big of a lift it wasfor Wild Ride to launch their outerwear
line. And I just want tohighlight it here and say, say congrats.
(40:43):
And it was actually a big weekfor women led founders in the outdoor
industry as in addition to thegood news for Cassie and Wild Rye,
Gigi and the team at NARAopened a pop up shop on Pearl street
in Boulder. And then last weekTitle 9 held their annual pitch fest
where they bring togetherwomen founders to pitch their brands
and land a Title 9 PO gear.Abbey herself, Shantae Saliba was
at Pitch Fest and we'll becoming on the Rock Fight to talk
(41:04):
about that in the next coupleof weeks. So congrats to all of them
and it's a good reminder that,you know, there are good things happening
in the outdoor industry.Right. It is still an inspirational
segment that we talk abouthere, even if we get in the weeds
and some of the things thatmake us raise an eyebrow. But I thought
that was, it was nice to getsome good news from these folks.
(41:24):
All right, everybody, that'sthe show for today. We want your
emails. Send them tomyrockfightmail.com the Rock Fight
is a product of Rock FightLLC. Our episode today produced by
producer Dave with artdirection provided by Sarah Gensert
for Owen Comerford, I'm ColinTrue. Thanks for listening. Back
again to take us out. He can'tbe stopped. It's Chris Demaikz to
sing the Rock Fight Fight songand we'll see you next time. Rock
(41:47):
fighters.
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rockflight. Rock fight. Rock Fight. Rock
fl. Welcome to the ride bikewhere we speak our truth, slay sacred
cows and sometimes agree todisagree. We talk about human powered
outdoor activities and bigbites about topics that we find interesting
(42:13):
like pop culture, music, thelatest movie reviews, ideas that
aim for the head. This is theway we speak our truth. This is where
we speak our truth. Rockfight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome
to the Rock Fight. Rock fight.Rock fight. Welcome to the Rock Fight.
(42:33):
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rockflight Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome
to the Rock fight. Rock fight.Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
This just in. Breaking newsfrom the Rock Fight. A group of San
Francisco based tech investorshave announced they are launching
a subscription basedpublishing ecosystem of adult themed
outdoor magazines. Gear Hunkyplus will debut this spring with
an orgy of coverage of allthings uncovered outside. The first
issue will feature AlexiHandhold's attempt at the first clothing
(00:23):
free solo of El Capitan inYosemite, complete with centerfold
listicles and affiliate links.Gearhunky plus glossy full color
print editions harken back toa day when people had to pay for
their adult outdoor content orfind it in the woods behind their
house like everyone else.
While that may not be true,you know what is true? Ibex Merino
(00:45):
is as home in your shop asduct tape on Denali. We're talking
authentic heritage, realsustainability, privately owned and
of course premium performancethat has become legendary. From everyday
essentials like the goatee toexpedition ready pieces like the
mammoth hoodie, Ibex has apremium merino lair ready to outfit
any of your customers.Schedule some time with their team
(01:05):
at GEOA Connect in Kansas Citythis November. You know, maybe it's
time to make a little room forthe goat in your store. Welcome to
the Rock Fight where we speakour truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes,
(01:26):
sometimes agree to disagree.This is an outdoor podcast that aims
for the head. I'm Colin Trueand joining me today, they've packed
their trade show bags andthey're on their way to Minnesota
for a 10 month outdoorretailer tailgate. It's the Monday
boys. Owen Comerford andproducer Dave. What's up guys? I
love that. You never know whatI'm gonna say. It makes me so happy.
(01:48):
I just.
Just don't even know where to go.
Come on, you're headed out.You're so excited about the news.
Just gonna soda for the crazy,crazy week.
Right?
I go, I go away week people.
Right? And the prospect of $12soft drinks and cold sandwiches.
She's gonna live. Are therebuc ee's along the way between your
respective homes in Minnesota?I hope Bucky's having a moment on
(02:12):
like Instagram reels and tick tock.
I don't think so.
No Buc EE's? No, they'respawning as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, right.
What's the percentage of theglobal supply chain and stuff in
Buc EE's? I think there'sprobably sp pretty high.
Amount right there, right?It's impressive.
Yeah, that's one word.
It is impressive.
All right, well, today we'regoing to offer some follow up thoughts
(02:33):
to the big outdoor retailernews as well as weigh in on the latest
from REI and some otherheadlines to come out of the outdoor
industry. But first, someprogramming reminders. We never want
you to miss an episode of theRock Fight, so please click follow
on the podcast app you areusing right now on no new open container
tomorrow we're taking a weekoff or so to reload the container
with some fresh stories.Working on a bunch of amazing things
(02:53):
happening over there with DougSchnitzbahn. But you will on Thursday
get an all new new episode ofGear Abbey with host Shante Salibair
who answers all of yourburning outdoor questions. So make
sure you're following both ofthose podcasts.
And gotta ask you like Colinon the Gear Abbey front, do we. Does
it come with any kind ofwarning? Because I just listened
(03:14):
to the last episode and twophrases stick in my mind banging
animals and the other one ispoo stew. Okay, those are two actual
phrases from that show and Ifeel like there should be like if
you're in any way squeamish, Idon't know, some sort.
Of parental warning, I don't know.
(03:37):
Yeah, pretty sure those werethe warm up acts at the Hawthorne
Theater last night.
Ah, Poo Stew is a good band.
I'm just saying. Yeah, right.
I don't want to speak forShantae. She's not here to defend
herself. But my guess is thatI think she's writing these episodes
with how can I offend Owen in mind.
I don't feel offended. I just.It's just like, okay, we went there.
(04:00):
Oh, we went there too.
Okay, cool.
About our whole episode wherewe talked about horny salmon. So
that was.
Wow. Okay, sorry. Yes, please.Back to our regular.
Can't wait for her to hearthis. Dave, what should our listeners
do if they want more from theRock Fight?
Well, I guess if you want morefrom the Rock Fight, you're gonna
have to subscribe to thenewsletter News from the Front, our
(04:23):
semi weekly newsletter, semimonthly newsletter, Rockfight Co.
Rockfight Co. Sign up today.
And Owen, you know, if we wantto hear from you, you specifically,
since you left us, how can wehear from you? No, how can our listeners
write into the Rock Fight?
This is a tough question.Well, they should email us@myrockfightmail.com
(04:46):
they can also reach out to uson LinkedIn. Just search up the Rock
Fight or on Instagram where weare Rock Fight Co. All one word and
slip into Collins DMs.
How are we feeling about thestate of LinkedIn?
These days, LinkedIn.
LinkedIn. Is it still as funas it was like a year ago or, you
(05:07):
know, are we getting jaded?
Was LinkedIn ever fun? No, no.I don't know. I mean, I would say
so much of LinkedIn is justself congratulatory bullshit. It
actually, it's, it's good forme because I, you know, actually
spent some time trying to puttogether some content that has some
(05:27):
thought and worthwhile andisn't all about how brilliant I am.
Although that's the underlyingcurrent, obviously.
Did you notice how smart I am?
Yeah. Do you notice? So, butyeah, yeah, no. So much of it is
just horseshit or people whoare just sort of fishing for follows
or oh, isn't working from homegreat or whatever. Whatever. Yeah.
(05:51):
But I find actually some goodcontent out there.
All right, so first thing Iwant to talk about today is a little
bit more on the big news oflast week, which was the outdoor
retailer, news of the show,moving to Minnesota and moving to
August. So we're recordingthis today. After Owen and I chatted
with Sunny and Lindsey aboutall of that, we heard from a lot
of people in the last 24hours. And so I have some follow
(06:11):
up thoughts that I want todiscuss with you guys. And also we
need to get Dave's take onthis. The first one is. And back
to our LinkedIn conversation.Oh, and like shiny object syndrome.
I feel like in the outdoorindustry is real. I saw a lot of
people, both personal textmessages on LinkedIn and in some
other places, people have justbeen pouring dirt on outdoor retailer.
And then a lot of the messagesand posts I saw being like, hey,
(06:32):
or is back. They're moving toMinnesota. So I thought that was
kind of funny, like just howeasily excited a lot of folks in
the industry are.
It's actually a more positivereaction than I would have expected.
So. Okay, cool.
But it does seem, you know,it's a little disingenuous. Like,
you know, I don't think theygot it anymore. I can't go to or
anymore. Now it's like, areyou moving to Minnesota? Oh, yeah.
I always believed in you.
We'll see. Will peopleactually, you know, be excited to
(06:57):
get away from their, theirLinkedIn keyboards and on a plane?
So that's going to be the big question.
The second thing is, and wetalked a little bit about this with
Lindsey and Sunny and I thinkOwen, you and I did as well. I am
a little concerned about theold school kind of outdoor approach
this team is starting out on.Right. The leadership Village, as
they're calling themselves.It's a very much an industry, old
school kind of outdoorindustry group of folks. The first
(07:20):
roster kind of feels likewe've been here before. So I do want
to see where this plays out.Like we talked about, you know, run
and casual, those are thedriving categories right now for
outdoor. And I think for themto find success, I think that I just
want to reiterate, I thinkthat is going to have to be addressed
at some.
Point or 2.0, which I'm nowcalling this, or 2.0. It can't just
(07:41):
be you're not going to getback to or those days are over. I
think you've had thatconversation many times with Sean
and others. So, yeah, you needto develop a show for today, not
for 10 years ago. And I thinkthey will need to expand the roster
a little bit to get some ofthat in here as.
(08:03):
They'Re looking to do that. Ithink if they really want to enjoy
is my last point. And I wantto hear. Dave, want you to jump in
here with your thoughts. Youhaven't had a chance at talk about
it yet. If they really wantedto get to that return to form. And
again, I think we said this,it was one of the first questions
I asked Lindsey. You got todefine who the show is for and give
those people a reason to showup. And I'm not just saying that's
for or I think Switchback hasa similar challenge. Anybody who's
(08:25):
making a show or putting on ashow, this is something that there's
a lot of options out there.There's a lot of things that people
can come and do and placesthey can spend their time. And I'm
not sure, and I'm not reallytalking about the industry days and
the panels. I don't thinkthose things are enough. I was actually
catching up with our friend ofthe pod, Wes Allen, who owns a brick
and mortar shop and Cod,Wyoming. He's been on the show multiple
times. I'm sure we'll behaving him on again sometime in the
(08:45):
near future. You know, he'sconsistently lamented any shows being
other than GOA being held inJune. And he loves the idea of the
show being in August, butthat's because he is a brick and
mortar retailer who has a lotto do in June. So if he's the target
audience, if the GOA accountsare the target audience, then yeah,
this is kind of like a homerun for that. Like, you know, hey,
the people we want to havecome here, here's who's going to
(09:07):
come. This is what they'relooking for. We're going to accommodate
that.
But they, in fairness, theyanswered that question and they said
very clearly it was brands andretailers. This is a show for those
folks. And so, you know, likewe said in the show on Friday, if
ultimately, if all of thesethings doesn't move the needle for
those folks and get them backto the show, then it didn't work.
(09:30):
You're absolutely right. Ithink what I'm saying is the. A lot
of the. I don't want to callit fluff, a lot of the sort of other
parts of the announcement interms of the panels and the events
and stuff like that kind ofovershadowed that piece of it. And
I think a simple message tothe people you really want to have
come and the value in that andit's not in having an industry day
and those kinds of things. Ithink that's kind of what I'm getting
(09:51):
at. I think that's sort of themake the proposition. This is what
we have. Here's why you come.And then you can do all of those
other things. Right. Just tohave them happen. But it needs to
be. That's the frosting.That's not the cake, I guess, is
what I'm saying.
Totally. And, you know, it'sthe classic chicken or the egg scenario,
which is, you know, we've gotto get the brands to get the retailers,
(10:13):
but we have to have theretailers show up to keep the brands
coming and vice versa, youknow, and we saw that. I think we
saw that in the firstswitchback, where I would say we
have more brands thanretailers. So I think, if anything,
I think they're leaning on theretailer side this time with the
GOA Scholarship and that kindof piece. To me, the bigger question
is brands. If you don't getsome core brands showing up, then
(10:35):
I think it's going to be tricky.
All right, Dave, get in here.It's your first time. Everybody stand
back. It's been since Thursdayof last week.
Setting this way.
No one's heard thoughts.
What is there to say? You guyshave covered it all.
All right, good.
I mean, look, you know,creating a unique and compelling
reason to show up. That'severy brand's challenge is to do
(10:56):
that. So that's no differentthan anybody else. It has been their
unique challenge, for sure.You know, we still haven't answered
the question, does theindustry need multiple national shows
for retailers and brands? Idon't know the answer to that question.
I'm just saying that that'sone that's out there kind of where
(11:16):
you guys were just talkingabout, too, in terms of, you know,
it's about retailers, it'sabout brands. I'm not sure that they
haven't gone through all theexercise of what can be radically
rethought. Right. I thinktiming, okay, that's always the issue
for everybody. But what setup,what format would make this so compelling
as to have to be there? Youknow, is this the speed dating of
(11:40):
trade shows? And everybodygets a table, not a booth. And one
after the other, and it's alower cost to get into. And I don't
know, is there just somethingthat uses technology? Plus, the IRL
leaves more time for mixing,but it compels people to come in
and be able to do business inone or two days.
Right.
Bam. Get in there. And again,I don't just. It's just more of an
(12:01):
idea of just how do we makethis such a compelling format that
is distinct and unique anddifferent the way we've always done
it and start building? Becausemaybe the second year of this version
doesn't look like the first,doesn't look like the third. Right.
But at least, what is that toget out of the door and just remake
how we interact together.
(12:21):
And this is why it's such acompelling thing. I need to talk
about and why we do talk abouttrade shows so much. And we're interested
in it because. Right. As yousaid that, like, what about a table?
I'm like, well, then like abrand like the North Face could BRINGING
what, like three products? Imean, like, you can't get your. They
can probably get their lineinto a 20 by 20 booth because it's
so big. Right. They can't showtheir whole line. So. But you know
what I mean, like, immediatelyyou're like, okay, well, there's
nits to pick. But then if youdon't do that, then you're back to,
(12:43):
well, we all have big boothsagain. I mean, it's like, it's totally.
There's no real black andwhite solution to any of these things,
which I think what makes it so compelling.
Yeah, right, right. There'sworkarounds for all of that.
I do want to share with youguys, and I won't say who it is,
but I was texting withsomebody else in outdoor media about
all this, and we werementioning, you know, the Minnesota
of it all and the Lloyd Vogelof it all, and they wrote to me,
(13:06):
hot take Lloyd is the TraderJoe of outdoor gear. And I'm like,
yes, can we get Trader LloydMerch going immediately.
We need him in a Hawaiian shirt.
Yeah, Trader LLOYD Comingsummer 2026.
Yes, I want that. I want atote bag.
All right, first story thatreally get into this week, aside
(13:26):
from stuff we talked aboutlast week, per Kayak Angler mag,
retailer Bass Pro Shops hasacquired Hobie and will move production
of Hobie products from Mexicoto Bass Pro's Missouri based factory.
Since the last sale of thecompany in 2021, Hobie has endured
a myriad of issues, let's say,with dealers facing backlogged orders
and copious warranty claims.On top of that, there are new concerns
(13:47):
with Bass Pro's ownership whenit comes to how specialty retailers
will be serviced. And that'sputting. There's a lot left out in
that little synopsis there. Icould talk for the next five minutes
about the issues they faced.
Can I give you my favoriteHobie story? So this was sort of
the in between story with thenew buyers. A different kayak brand
(14:09):
was visiting a paddle sportsdealer. Okay. And they asked to use
the wi fi and the guy's kindof sheep and asked for the password.
And the guy's kind of sheep,as he said, well, the password is
fuck Hobie. And so they'relike, okay, we gotta get the backstory
on that. And basically thebackstory was Hobie to hit some of
(14:29):
their credit terms, theyneeded to realize revenue. So they
didn't tell the retailer andthey just shipped them a truckload,
literally a semi full ofkayaks to show up on December 24,
Christmas Eve, while they'rein the throws. Yes. In the throes
of trying to service theircustomers who are trying to get all
(14:52):
the last minute shopping. Itshows up, pull it. They got to pull
people off the shop floor tounload this, this semi complete disaster.
So anyway, I'm not going toname the retailer or whatever, but
yeah, so that was kind of partlike, if that gives you a sense of
what folks were dealing withwith the last version of Hobie, it
(15:13):
wasn't great. You're not goingto find a lot of people in the industry
that.
Oh, and but were they. Werethey pedal powered guys?
Yes, they were.
I'm just checking.
Okay. All right, good.
There's so much there. I'mtrying to picture the person at Hobie
that's like, we got to makeour number. It just ship them a bunch
of kayaks. Then who did it?How do they decide who to ship it
to? Who's the biggest suckerwho might actually pay the bill?
(15:34):
All Right.
Those guys. Great Senate. Whenshould arrive? I don't care. Get
it there before December 27th.We have to. We have to have it in.
Boom. Exactly. It's got to. Wegot to get all of these kayaks delivered
so we can recognize therevenue before the end of the year.
This is like, this is thebusiness version of the brand asshole.
Dave. Like, what is this? Likethe supply chain asshole? Like, I
don't know what we call this.Like, it just sort of like who kicks
in the door on. This is like,no, no, guys, you cannot do this.
(15:57):
You're going.
This is the.
Just the.
Yeah.
Wow. Well, I mean, that's kindof. That's getting into like, what
I wanted to ask you, Owen,because, I mean, they're. It's an
old brand. I mean, they'relike a first ballot hall of fame
outdoor brand.
Right.
And it's been a rough fewyears, but it also doesn't sound
like Bass Pro is maybe anatural owner for them. I mean, what's
(16:18):
the motivation for Bass Pro in this?
Oh, maybe this is. I thinkit's a home run for Bass Pro. I mean,
they are. They are getting thefishing kayak brand. The fishing
kayak brand for I. I'mguessing a pretty nice discount because,
you know, things are notgreat. I'm sure a lot less than whoever,
whatever they paid for thebrand, you know, four years ago.
So they're getting thisamazing brand. Like Hobie hosted
(16:42):
the Hobie Bass Open Series.Right. I mean, they are, they are
the kayakers, the anglerskayak. Really. Right. I mean, they,
they really.
Some of the pushback fromdealers. Like, they don't. They're
worried about Bass Pro owningthem from deal perspective. So is
it just a. Like, screw thespecialty dealers. This is just a
Bass Pro brand now? Is thathow this is going to go? Probably.
I think there's a number ofways that this could go. So Bass
(17:06):
Pro may just say, hey, nowit's just. It's basically a private
brand for Bass Pro. You know,it's. It's under their. Their. Their
White River Marine Group. Andyou know, if you want to. To get
Hobie, you're going to have tocome to Bas Pro. That's one option.
Right. In which case,obviously the. The dealers are. Are.
Are sort of fully out of now.Well, in, in that, in that scenario,
potentially the dealers,they're servicing the products and
(17:30):
doing some other pieces, andmaybe they're selling accessories
or aftermarket accessories orwhatever for the Hobie product. So
it might work. I mean, Most ofthese dealers have been surviving
without Hobie boats for twoyears anyway. So, like, I guess,
what's the difference? But. Sothat's sort of one option. I don't
think. I don't think they'llgo that way. You never know. That's
(17:51):
possible. The other one issort of a tweener where they say,
okay, we're going to havemaybe more of a different line, maybe
more of an opening price pointline for Bass Pro and then a premium
line for the Independentchannel, which could be good or bad,
depending on how those, thosetwo are kind of positioned. Or they
just say, no, no, no. Hobie isstill Hobie, and we're selling to
(18:12):
Bass Pro is one of ourcustomers. We're selling to the other
folks as well, and we're goingto fix all of the supply chain stuff
and, you know, which would begreat news for the independent specialty
guys. So it really could goabove a bunch of different ways,
and they haven't reallyindicated which way at this point.
So, Dave, with all thosestories, I hand you the keys to the
(18:33):
Hobie brand. They say all thedistribute. What do you do? What
do you do with this, Dave? Howdo you recover?
Well, recover, I guess. Whatare you trying to recover? Like Owen
said, segmentation would bethe first kind of approach. They
are a vessel brand now.They're a fishing brand. That they
(18:53):
have become this. And forthose that don't know, Hobie started
in the 50s, was one of thefirst to use like fiberglass, you.
Know, into surfboards, then acatamaran branch. Right. I mean,
that was that.
Well, that wasn't even untilthe 60s. That wasn't even until the
late 60s. Right. So for 15years, they were this core surf brand
(19:14):
in Southern California.
It is.
I don't know if it's settledlaw, rather, they invented the polyurethane
skate wheel for skateboards inthe mid-60s, early-60s, like, so
they were such a part of boardrider culture in Southern California.
Like, like you said all theway back, this is the body gloves.
And, you know, in that kindof. That world and in the late 60s,
(19:37):
made this shift to fiberglass,like the holes, like, okay, the catamaran,
and really kind of blew thewhole sale. And for the 70s and 80s
were really a part of sailculture and bringing that up. And
of course that kind of, youknow, rode the 80s and they became
a licensing brand. And now yougot sunglasses and all these other
swimwear and just everythingpart of that world. But then in the
(19:59):
last 15 years, 20 years, thisis where they've pivoted really into
being a fishing first. Youknow, like I said, vessel brand,
like you can kind of geteverything. So that's what the. That's
what Bass Pro is buying today.Is that right? A piece. But if you
say, what would you do withit? Yeah, cultivate that. Create
some segmentation of theirpremium line and their vessels. But
(20:19):
the real kind of gem here, andwe talk all about soft goods, is,
man, this is a legitimate surfbrand that you could develop on.
I mean, there's a wholecategory of surf birdwell to hang
10 to catons that all play offof this so that you could separate
those out and create kind of adifferent type of brand for people
to be reintroduced to,separate from this fishing work.
(20:42):
Because fishing kind of looksa little bit like NASCAR in terms
of the way it brands. Right.It's like more like aftermarket car
parts. It's just. It's not thesame type of branding stories that
you would tell in a heritagesurf brand and a certain kind of
products. But you could seehow that maybe could live together
and extend its customer off ofthat same authenticity.
All right, Bass Pro, we heardhim give Dave a call. He's got some
ideas for you.
(21:03):
Right. Come on.
No, we're just going to makefishing boats.
Yeah, yeah, we're just goingto make.
We're going to make pedalpowered kayaks.
D I think they're just goingto make pedal power kayaks. Yeah.
Right. Well, you. But youcould do this though.
But you could, but you could.
All right, guys, you ready forthe Lightning round?
(21:24):
Lightning round.
First up in the Lightninground, per retail dive, Kohl's expanding
their private label FLXactivewear line to include products
specifically for kids. So,Owen, you're our business consigliere.
Like, just how big is theuntapped children's crossfit and
yoga market? It's gotta behuge, right?
(21:45):
Massive. Absolutely. I don'tknow. I think that there. There is
always a market for littlegirls that want to look like mom
and maybe little boys, too. Idon't know, but I don't know how
huge it is. Also, thechallenge with the kids market in
general is it tends to be veryprice point and discount oriented.
(22:05):
We used to sell strollers backat Moose Trout. We just gave up.
It's just like full price. Younever sold a stroller. You went on
sale. Oh, we sell a millionstrollers. I mean, it's just. Yeah.
And then the other challengeis that there's a lot of make that
goes into these Things there'salmost much make or labor that goes
into a pair of, you know, 12year old girls leggings as there
(22:26):
go as that goes into a women'smedium's leggings. Right. You know,
yes, a little bit lessmaterial, but the price expectation
is so much lower. So I don'tknow, it's a tough business. Yeah.
So it's not just that. Theupside is that, you know, the people
making the stuff are also thefit models for the stuff themselves.
Or.
Okay, not touching that one, Colin.
(22:50):
All right, Dave, next one'sfor you. Per Trailheads by Switchback
footwear brand Keen hasunveiled a new shoe called the Seek.
Would you like to take a guessat what kind of shoe this is, Dave?
What are my choices, Colin?
Trail running. That's it?
Only just trail running?
What else would you make?
I'm gonna choose trail running.
Big winner here on the rockfight today.
(23:10):
Yeah, right, right. I amalways gonna support somebody who
sees a crowded opportunity.
Opportunity.
Who sharpens those elbows andsays, you know what? There is room
for me too.
It's the mosh pit approach.
All kidding aside, I havelooked at the shoe, looked at the
way they've been marketing itfor a while and actually, I gotta
say, I think this is right onfor Keen. I just, I think they're,
(23:32):
their product fits theprofile. They've been super clear
and clean in their languageand their points of how they're marketing.
It's very process driven,which is what you kind of expect
from Keen, but they're leaninginto the wider toe box, which is
definitely kind of the trenddu jour. It's still feature benefit
driven in terms of therationale. Right. But that's always
(23:53):
a great opening play. Myquestion with Keane is, well, what
are you gonna do next? Andwill you ever move to aspiration,
which is more emotional thanjust the literal kind of rational
piece to that. But that's thatnext play. But I have to say, just
from what I've seen overall,it's a really solid hitting all of
(24:14):
the. Hitting all of the marksin your go to market of the new technology
in their brand.
I totally agree with Dave. Ithink, you know, they made the Keen
tree running shoe, they didn'tmake a trail running shoe. So that's
right. That was the key. Likeif they had come out with a super
shoe with carbon fiber, yada,yada and all the stuff, right. I'd
be like, come on, Keen. No.
You think they think they didwear testing at the trails around
(24:36):
the Costco. You think that'swhere they did the testing for it.
Or that's a bunch of dads out there.
Bunch of dads. Yes.
Bunch of toddlers andstrollers. Hey, these are great.
They do come with a free pairof cargo shorts, in fairness.
All right, last one, Dave.Last week we said that arc' Teryx
would weather the PR hit fromtheir Himalayan fireworks display
without any real issue. Itappears it's already over as Wells
(24:59):
Fargo has upgraded Amor stockthis past week, indicating there's
no real concern with thepublic response to their mountain
art installation. I mean, whatshould other brands take away from
this, Dave? That detonationslead to explosive sales growth?
Deny, deny, deny, ignore,deny. That's what we've learned here.
And I'm pretty sure they'vefollowed along.
And blame the Chinese team.That's right. That's actually what
(25:23):
we've learned, to me is.
That's right.
The biggest takeaway actuallyis it really helps to have Chinese
ownership who are friendlywith the CCP and who can censor social
media. I guarantee you that ifthis had been a US or European owned
brand, this thing would befull throttle shit show right now
all over China, you know?Yeah. So.
(25:44):
Well, if that had been thecase, they wouldn't have gotten the
permits to do it in the first place.
There you go.
The world, guys. All right,all right, let's take a quick break
to hear from some sponsors andthen we come back. We're going to
get into the news from rei.All right, Winter's unpredictable,
guys. Mild one week, freezingthe next. You know, I grew up in
the mid Atlantic and everyinch of snow was exciting until it
melted into a soupy mess andthen make things worse, it would
(26:06):
refreeze in the driveway,making it impossible to walk across.
Going outside became its ownadventure, and that includes choosing
what to wear. And that's whypeople have trusted Fjallraven jackets
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(26:28):
course last week. Not arcticconditions, but still it performed.
Yeah, well, it was a lovelyinsulated vest for those 50 degree
mornings.
Well, to be fair, we've seenOwen golf and there's a lot of hiking
involved, so I think thatprobably was a good call.
A lot of time in the. A lot oftime is spent in the woods.
That's right, the back country.
(26:50):
Oh, there's my Ball. From thecab Gore Tex jacket to the expedition
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(27:13):
No.
I'm like asking you guys, areyou ready to take this call? Adventure's
calling.
Yes. Hello? Hello?
Coming early in November, Lemzis dropping a bold new lineup of
minimalist boots and trailshoes. Built to go wherever the season
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(27:34):
outsoles for serious grip anddesigned with an urban edge, they're
made to move seamlessly fromrugged backcountry treks to city
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the lineup soon. Get ready toexplore more. And also retailers
again. I hope you'relistening, retailers. Be sure to
go see the Lem's team whenthey exhibit at Goa's Discovery Marketplace
at the Connect show in KansasCity this November.
(27:56):
What is an urban edge?
That's the curb you hit whenyou fall on the extra driveway.
That's right, a curb.
Yeah.
Ah, the urban edge got meright. All right, guys. A few weeks
ago we learned that mosquitoeskill more humans every year than
any other animal. Unlike theDalai Lama once said, if you think
you're too small to make adifference, try sleeping with a mosquito.
(28:16):
But I doubt the Dalai Lama wassleeping in the wilder pant from
Royal Robins. Because theWilderpant, like everything in Royal's
MPT collection, has mosquitoprotection technology. Relying on
protection throughconstruction. MPT is the chemical
free solution to mosquito freedays in the outdoors. Oh, and while
you were golfing, how was themosquito situation? A little late
in the season, but were they around?
I know I was on an island offthe coast of of the Upper Peninsula
(28:40):
of Michigan. So it, no, itwasn't bad. I think I did get one
bite though, in fairness.
To shop the entire MPTcollection for Royal Robins, head
to royalrobbins.com andretailers. Again, three times the
charm. Make sure you schedulean appointment with Royal Robbins
at GOA Connect in Kansas Citythis November.
We'll be there, right?
We will be there.
We will be there.
So yeah, schedule anappointment with Colin and Owen.
(29:01):
Absolutely. Say hi.
Don't let our Big timeproduction value and celebrity names
fool you. Looking at you,producer Dave. But Rockvite LLC is
a small business and growingbrand. And even though we have our
own consigliere, he advises onother matters. We've got to consult
a lawyer every now and then onthe legal structures that every business
needs. But for a smallbusiness like ours, the cost to hire
(29:22):
general counsel or pay aretainer is a non starter. So what's
an outdoorsy founder to do? Imean, come on, we're not flashing
that outside money. EnterConatus Council. They can help your
business with fractionalgeneral counsel and legal services.
From strategy consulting toadvocacy and government affairs to
real world implementation foroutdoor recreation industry businesses.
(29:43):
Forest over at KannadasCouncil has helped Rock Fight navigate
some of these areas. And letme tell you, knowing someone has
your back means you can focuson running your business. I mean,
he had at least three edits tothis read to quote, unquote, protect
us from ourselves. I mean,that's what I'm talking about. Forest
Care cares just as much aboutthe outdoors and the outdoor industry
as our listeners. So, gotquestions? Conatuscouncil.com to
(30:05):
get in touch with Forest. Thefirst six hours are free. Wait, what?
What? I can't say that. Oh,initial consultations are free. Okay,
fine. All right, guys. A lothappened last week, but besides the
outdoor retailer news, thebiggest story was REI's announcement
of a new strategic planthey're calling Peak 28. Via a letter
(30:25):
from CEO Mary Beth Lawton. Theannouncement attempts to lay out
the path the co op will betaking over the next three years,
including four strategicpillars that will guide their actions.
Those pillars are, number one,connected, focused and trailblazing
culture. Number two, authenticculturally leading assortment. Number
three, elevated service andexperience. Number four, reinvented
membership. I think theannouncement of this plan has led
(30:47):
to some confusion. Maybe therather true understanding of REI's
plan for the next three years.We'll talk about that in a second.
But to start off with Owen,you know, what was your initial response
to Peak 28?
Well, ultimately, you know,this plan has to get REI back to
profitability. That's thewhole deal here. And if you look
at the financials and dig inthe way I have, really, their biggest
(31:11):
P and L issues are twofold.One is very high payroll. So their
Payroll ballooned from 20% ofrevenue in 2019 pre Covid to 25%.
Okay, so that's a huge number.5% of revenue Delta there. So payroll
is a big issue. The second oneis margins Margins dropped from over
(31:32):
45% in 2019 to 40.4% in 2024.So between those two things, you've
got almost 10% of revenue thatwent away. And whatever this thing
is, whatever this planultimately turns out to be, has to
solve for those things. And Ithink it's really interesting that
in the memoir to employees, MBsaid that they're going to need to
(31:56):
make tough choices to do this.And, you know, I mean, prioritization
is part of any kind ofplanning process. But I really do
think that there are going tobe tough choices here. Like what,
you know, how are, how are wegoing to get here on the employee
side? I think some of thetough choices are going to be about,
like, we're talking aboutdoing all these great things. And
if you read the objectives,it's hard to disagree with them being
(32:18):
good objectives to have. Butit's like, okay, how do you do all
these things? How do, like,how do we solve for the payroll issue
and add all these experiencesand add all this new level of service
and add all those otherthings, you know, tricky, right?
And then, you know, how do weoffer all of the priced right assortment
and do all the rest of thestuff and a more differentiated membership
(32:42):
experience and solve for thegross margin issue, for example,
is part of this whole new andimagined membership. Does the dividend
change or go away as part ofthis? Because it's not really affordable
in the new world.
So is this kind of aconscious. Like, we're going to be
(33:04):
intentionally vague while kindof establish, kind of tipping our
hands towards. There's some,there's some pretty wholesale changes
coming to rei coming down theroad is kind of what. Is that how
you're reading this?
I think so. And I think, Ithink most people would agree that
there have to be wholesalechanges that structurally things
have to change to get to abetter place. The other challenge,
(33:24):
and I think this, what this isthe opening salvo to, is you have
to get the green vests onboard and you have to get the members
on board that this is the waythat we're going to go and that ultimately
it's the right answer for theco op long term. So I think putting
the, the, the objectives atfirst, which are all, you know, things
(33:45):
you can kind of get behind,is, is maybe like the step one. It's
the details, the devil in thedetails, then of like, okay, well,
okay, what's actually. What.What are those tough choices? And
is everybody going to be onboard with those tough choices?
All right, do you Want to gothrough each of these objectives
and kind of give us yourthoughts on them and see if we can
kind of figure out whatthey're trying to say here.
Sure. So let's start with thefirst, which is connected, focused
(34:08):
and trailbl. So I think someof the tough choices are, okay, what
roles need to change, whatroles are going to be added and more
importantly, what roles aregoing to be eliminated to become
this high performing cultureas the objective says. Then also
this talk about being apurpose led organization. Okay, what
(34:28):
purposes are we talking?Public lands, which I think that
they've come out more stronglyof late, DEI sustainability. So what
are those elements and are wegoing to have to pick and choose
there to have a bigger tent ora smaller tent, et cetera. So those
would be the first two, theauthentic, culturally leading assortment.
(34:49):
There's a lot of talk abouttheir target customer. Okay, well,
who is that target customer?Again, you got to make choices there.
Are you going to focus on thecore and that's who you're going
to be? Sort of old school,rei, backpack, climb, camp, whatever?
Or is our target customerlifestyle, casual, et cetera? Are
we going to broaden thatdefinition? And then when you do
(35:11):
that, okay, which brands andcategories are going to change? You've
only got, whatever it is,25,000 square feet in a store. Something's
got to give. Right. If you'regoing to go more after run, you're
going to go less after hike.Right. So those things are going
to be tough decisions in termsof open to buy. Some brands may no
longer be part of rei. Andthen the other piece is private label.
(35:32):
If we're going to do all thesethings, if we're going to deliver
this price right trend, rightassortment as it was called, is that
really that the REI privatebrand is going to be priced right
Trend. Right. And then we'regoing to basically fill that with
these other brands. So theseare all the kind of the big, the
big issues from an assortmentperspective. Then we get into elevated
(35:54):
service and experience again.Okay, how do we elevate service?
How do we elevate experiencewhen we really have to tackle payroll?
And then finally this wholereinvented membership thing. Okay,
we're going to have all ofthese highly differentiated offerings.
How do we add those withoutadding a whole bunch of cost? Does
it mean actually changing therebate? And so, yeah, a lot on the
(36:14):
table here.
Dave, before I move into thenext piece here, you and I had talked
about this off Mike, when itcomes to the experience and the service
piece of it. They made apretty big move recently to kind
of. That affected a lot of that.
Yeah, well, like Owen said,it's the details in all of these.
You can't really disagree withany of these. And more service and
experiences. Yeah, that'sgreat. However, they just did shed
(36:37):
that entire sector of theircompany. So that's a lot of institutional
knowledge that has just beendrifted away. And so how are you
going to bring that back intoit? You reinvented membership. Love
that. And, you know, Owenfocused on the dividend. But something
that they kind of helpedpioneer in the sense of this kind
of membership aspect in retailis now, I mean, so it's. Is there
(37:01):
just a new day of what thatmeans with subscription models and
the kind of the. The customerfocus and building that core, that
VIP aspect and brandexperiences? There's so much that
that could start to take onthat really, you know, that gets.
That gets to that, that, thatnew. That new membership.
But is for maybe for both ofyou. I mean, is there an upside to
talking about this now? Like,it seems there's. Are they up against
(37:24):
some meeting or deadline? Ithink it's fair to say this left
us wanting more. I mean, even,like the Gear Junkies newsletter
this week said it was kind ofa cryptic release. A lot of people
kind of wondering. There's alot of questions that have come out
of this. So, I mean, Iunderstand the motivation, especially
the way Owen. You described itin your color there, Dave, but I'm
not going to say it is halfbaked, but it feels a little like
we want more. Like, what doyou mean here? There's a lot of questions,
(37:46):
more than answers coming outof this to keep.
Our cake metaphors going here.I don't know, the cake is half baked,
but all we're seeing is thefrosting on top. Right? That's all
we're seeing. We don't knowwhat went into the cake. We don't
know what the ingredients are.We don't know anything about it.
It could be a brick under allthat frosting. We have no idea. So,
(38:07):
yeah, I think that's thebigger question. But by the same
token, I wouldn't expect themto lay out, oh, this is what all
this means. Boom, boom, boom,boom, boom, boom, boom. It makes
sense from a communicationstrategy to say, okay, well, let's
get the stuff out there thatpeople can kind of get behind, and
then changes are.
Coming, things are going tohappen, and.
Then we follow up with whatthat actually means. Yeah.
(38:27):
All right. Well, for ourlisteners, the Rock Fight. We've
been in touch with Rei. We'retrying to book MB to come on the
show and talk about Peak 28.We'll see. Rei is considering it.
We'll see how it goes. We hopewe can welcome her on the show to
kind of offer some of thatcolor. Maybe when they're ready to
do so. Also, while we're inthe REI world, they announced this
week several new board membersto fill three vacancies after elections
earlier this year. Those nameswere Eric Sprunk, who's formerly
(38:48):
of Nike, John Vandemore fromSkechers, and Lisa. Is it Bouget?
I'm going to assume. Buji. I'msorry, Lisa, if I'm messing up your
name. Bougie, a partner froman early stage VC fund that specializes
in climate tech. All three ofthem are joining REI's board. Owen,
can you glean anything frommaybe the go forward strategy for
REI from these appointments?
I mean, it's really more ofthe same in terms of whether it's
(39:12):
overall executive teamleadership or board leadership. You
know, it's the well troddenground of ex Nike execs and cpg folks.
You know, it's. This isn't anoutdoor focused team, but yeah, I
guess it's more of the same.
All right, well, like I said,hopefully we can bring MB on the
show to talk about us more.And regardless of that, we'll make
(39:33):
sure we weigh in on anythingelse new that comes out of rei. If
you want your gear grown in agarage, go to Garage Grown Gear.
Friend of the pod, Lloyd Vogeland Garage Growing Gear. Been with
the Rock Fight for a longtime. We love having them here. And
now they are the presentingsponsor of the Parting Shot. All
right, guys, part time for theParting Shot. Pretty short one today.
(39:56):
I just want to say congrats toformer Rock Fight guest Cassie Abel
of Wild Rye for the launch ofWild Rye's new outerwear line. Now,
we don't want to make a habitof calling out line extensions or
congratulating brands onlaunching new products here on the
Rock Fight, but if you've beenpaying attention, especially if they're
not.
Gonna pay us to do it.
Good point. If you wannaadvertise a show, man, we will talk
about you all day long. Comeon board. Water's warm.
(40:19):
Or if you introduce a trailrunning shoe.
Right, right. Yeah, true,true, true.
Now, now the line's gettinglong because.
Well, gotta get in line sometime.
But look, if you've beenpaying attention to way things have
unfolded this year and theimpact that the tariff situation
has had on brands like WildRye, then you have a small sense
of how big of a lift it wasfor Wild Ride to launch their outerwear
line. And I just want tohighlight it here and say, say congrats.
(40:43):
And it was actually a big weekfor women led founders in the outdoor
industry as in addition to thegood news for Cassie and Wild Rye,
Gigi and the team at NARAopened a pop up shop on Pearl street
in Boulder. And then last weekTitle 9 held their annual pitch fest
where they bring togetherwomen founders to pitch their brands
and land a Title 9 PO gear.Abbey herself, Shantae Saliba was
at Pitch Fest and we'll becoming on the Rock Fight to talk
(41:04):
about that in the next coupleof weeks. So congrats to all of them
and it's a good reminder that,you know, there are good things happening
in the outdoor industry.Right. It is still an inspirational
segment that we talk abouthere, even if we get in the weeds
and some of the things thatmake us raise an eyebrow. But I thought
that was, it was nice to getsome good news from these folks.
(41:24):
All right, everybody, that'sthe show for today. We want your
emails. Send them tomyrockfightmail.com the Rock Fight
is a product of Rock FightLLC. Our episode today produced by
producer Dave with artdirection provided by Sarah Gensert
for Owen Comerford, I'm ColinTrue. Thanks for listening. Back
again to take us out. He can'tbe stopped. It's Chris Demaikz to
sing the Rock Fight Fight songand we'll see you next time. Rock
(41:47):
fighters.
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rockflight. Rock fight. Rock Fight. Rock
fl. Welcome to the ride bikewhere we speak our truth, slay sacred
cows and sometimes agree todisagree. We talk about human powered
outdoor activities and bigbites about topics that we find interesting
(42:13):
like pop culture, music, thelatest movie reviews, ideas that
aim for the head. This is theway we speak our truth. This is where
we speak our truth. Rockfight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome
to the Rock Fight. Rock fight.Rock fight. Welcome to the Rock Fight.
(42:33):
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rockflight Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome
to the Rock fight. Rock fight.Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
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