Reviewing Trail Etiquette, Killian's New Project & The Personal Cost Of Being Rescued

Today on the show Colin and Shawnté get into the following topics that have come out of the outdoor adventure community!

• A British hiker ignores the signs and is now on the hook for his $16,000 rescue. Should people have to pay to get help? (06:44)
• A NY man was arrested for leaving his 9 year old in the VIP tent of the Lake Placid Ironman while he went out and competed in the race. Did Ironman also submit an invoice for their babysitting fees? (14:57)
• Killian Jornet has a new project... because of course he does. (21:35)
• The Rock Fight's Lightning Round: The fastest 3 minutes in outdoor news! Antarctica tourism, a Russian chairlift collapses, and long distance mushroom boating! (30:56)
• Let's talk about trail etiquette...because it seems that not enough people know the rules these days. (33:23)

Lastly, for The Parting Shot, Colin declares his now semi-eternal position on e-mountain bikes. Brace yourself... the rocks are coming in fast for this one. (53:52)

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
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(02:51):
fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Welcome to the Rock Fightwhere we speak our truth, slay sacred
cow and sometimes agree todisagree. This is an outdoor podcast
that aims for the head. I'mColin True, and joining me today,
this September, she's going toMiddle Earth. It's Shawnté Salabert.
Where am I going and why am I going?

(03:12):
You're going to Middle Earth.I think we need to do it. I think
September, October, November.
This is our Lord of the Rings.
Lord of the Rings trilogy.Let's go.
We're finally gonna right thatwrong that has just been burrowed
in your soul since I told youI've never seen them.
Well, you know, you weretelling me how you were shopping
at, like, a gem shop. I feellike there's enough, like, mystical,
like, fantasticalness in yourlife. There is, and you're. That.

(03:34):
That will not only resonate onthe pop culture front, but also on
the, you know, I don't knowwhat I'm trying to say.
The Sean Aston front, I thinkthe Sean Astin front. You could have
sold me there. Also, it's verygreen, right? I mean, it's set in
New Zealand, is it not? Imean, it is Middle Earth, right?
Well, Tolkien's whole thingwas, you know, like, nature versus,

(03:54):
you know, industrial industryand, like, was a whole, like, under,
you know, the World War II,the influence of that and versus
the natural world. So it was awhole, like, run theme there that
I think will absolutelyresonate with you.
Okay, how, like, what is thetime investment of this? Am I. So
am I basically going to berenting a room from you guys for
a month?
Well, I would say we probably.Maybe we. You do the first two on

(04:16):
your own, then you come downfor the third one. Otherwise, you
know, I've got to put.
In the time up front. And thennumber three is where it all comes
together.
It does. And I think, like,any man, if that's the case, if it
doesn't work out, fine. But itwould be a lot to say. No, no, no,
no. You need to drive to SanDiego three times because I'm not
doing that. Yeah, exactly.
Is there, like, Stipend, like,a rock fight meeting? Is this our

(04:37):
retreat? Like, our rock fightretreat? Should we zoom in like,
all the other guys and theycan just. They can zoom in with us?
My kids do. Do watch alongs,like, remotely over, like, you know,
over, like, FaceTime and stufflike that. Should we. Should we set
up a zoom while we watch themovie? Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, I have a feelingall of them will be too busy doing
the things they do in theirregular lives to join us.

(04:58):
But Schnitzman will join. He'sa big Lord of the Rings guy.
That makes sense. I feel thatthis is thrilling.
Speaking of all that, let'sget into some programming reminders
because that's a. That's.We're going to talk about open container
here, right? So come back tothe Rock Fight this Friday. You know
who's going to be on the showthis Friday? Shantae.
Who?
Justin Houseman.
Oh, my gosh. Oh, that's soexciting. Is he going to be drinking
beer?
Probably. He's coming on theshow. He's going to talk about what

(05:19):
he's been up for the last fewmonths. He's been working with Save
the Redwoods. We're going tohave a whole conservation conversation.
But what's. What's going on onthe network? Speaking of open containers,
Shantae.
Well, you know what? Did youmiss Monday's episode of the Rock
Fight?
I hope not.
I hope not. How aboutTuesday's newest open container,
soon.
To feature Shante Salibair?
Oh, my goodness. Well,hopefully you guys didn't miss those.

(05:40):
They were pretty great. Butalso, did you know that we are launching
a new show with. And Colinwrote this. It says our own Shantae
Salibare. That's me. It's me.
I like hearing you say yourown name.
My mom would be like, you'resaying it wrong. Yeah, there's. We
are launching a new show GearAbby. I'm going to be answering all
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(06:02):
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And your sponsorship dollars.
Yes. And especially yoursponsorship dollars. Send us your
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There is no topic off limitsas long as it is tangentially related
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(06:22):
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It is happening.
You are thrilled. Make sure y'all follow and listen to all of our
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on whatever podcast app youare using right now. All right, let's

(06:45):
talk about some Outdoorsy stuff.
Yes.
Today's opening shot,presented by Lem's Footwear, maker
of the 100% vegan and 100%comfortable Primal Zen. By the way,
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Yeah, I'm going to, I'm goingto try it out. I. I've loved my switchback

(07:05):
so much that I am excited tosee something with a closed toe.
There you go.
We're gonna go take somejourneys together.
So first up today, per cnn, aBritish hiker who had ignored trail
closure signs and had had tobe rescued while hiking in the Italian
Dolomites. The Dolomites. Dolomites.
Dolomites. I always sayDolomites, but maybe that's because

(07:27):
I'm a fan of 70s films.
So this hiker has been fined$16,000 to pay for his own rescue.
According to authorities, inorder for the 60 year old hiker to
end up where he was rescued,he had to have passed at least four
signs, crawled around abarrier, and was told by other hikers
that he should turn around andhike back with them. Instead, he

(07:48):
found himself calling forrescue from the Berte Via Ferrata.
Berte. Berte. I'm not sure.
Saliberte.
Yeah, Salah Berte, ViaFerrata. That'd be what an honor.
But without and without theability to provide his exact location,
there was rockfall rainingdown around him and apparently he's
in the middle of a landslide.So well done, sir.
That's so much. Oh my goodness.

(08:09):
What are your thoughts aboutreading this one there, Shantay?
Well, first of all, just yousaying all of that, it does remind
me of a time. So back probably17, 16 years ago now, there was this
website still exists calledModern Hiker. It was based in SoCal.
Yeah, you know, Modern Hikers.So they used to have a message board.
And I remember going up on atrail, Mount Low. Like Mount Low.

(08:32):
Fire road, something Tollroad. And there were closed signs
that I just did not payattention to whatsoever. And my friend
and I were gonna hike a loopback there and we just kept encountering
rock slides. And finally weencountered one that we had to sort
of grab a branch and swingover, Tarzan style. And when we got
back to the trailhead, then wesaw the signs, we're like, we're

(08:53):
idiots. And we wrote about it.This is the part we wrote about it
on the Modern Hiker message.Board. And then Casey Shriner, modern
hiker himself, was like, hey,if you ever want to go hiking, I'm
like, why would you want tohike with us?
Ignoring clothes signs?
Yeah, buddy.
I had a similar thing. It's.And I wasn't. The thing about this
is so funny is, apparentlythere were a lot of signs for this

(09:13):
guy. But I remember I wasliving in Colorado. We went on a
mountain bike ride, and we'rea buddy of mine, and we're just buzzing
on this trail. We'd never ridit before. This is just outside of
Boulder. We're like, this isgreat. Why haven't we ridden here
before? Someone starts yellingat us, like, get off the trail. We're
like, you mountain biking,Rul? Turns out, no, no, no. It was
a hike. We had missed the signthat there was no bikes allowed on
this trail. And people aremore like, hey, dude, you're not

(09:34):
supposed to be here. And ofcourse, we're like, no. You know,
but like, oh, oops. Sorryabout that.
This is how we learn as babyoutdoors. Yeah. You know, the funny
thing is, Casey is one of myvery, very close friends now, and.
And, yeah, we've actually. Weactually went on that summer to hike
Mount Whitney together, so.And we had a great time. But, yeah,
I think, you know, first,there were a ton of incidents that

(09:55):
happened in the Alps and theDolomites over, like, a month period.
I think it was June story thatwas a little darker.
June to July. It was 83people, I believe died. Not just
like, that's crazy. And therewere 20 more rescue incidents in
the Alps and the Dolomites inthis time frame this summer. So apparently
there was a lot of reallywacky weather. My initial reaction

(10:16):
other than that was just like,holy, $16,000 is a lot of money.
I did read that they chargeless for rescues to EU citizens,
which, of course, thanks toBrexit, this. This guy wasn't. Yeah,
but. Yeah, I mean, I. I know.I know helicopters are pretty expensive
to operate, but. Holy. That'sa lot of money, right?

(10:37):
This is definitely not thefirst time someone's had to pay for
their own rescue. I remember Iwas actually living in New Hampshire
when they passed the law therethat if, like, you are. It is deemed
that you are not prepared tobe out in, like, the White Mountains
when you. At the time of yourrescue, you will be forced to pay
for that because you'reputting other people at risk.
Right.
To that point, I'm like, I'mkind of pro finding individuals for

(10:58):
dumb rescues. I'M sure thereare circumstances where it could
swung around, but I don'tknow. How do you feel about that?
Well, I mean, I really dothink this is kind of an ongoing
debate because you, excuse me,you've got, you know, one faction
that says, hey, would lesspeople who really need help call
for help if they thought theywere going to get in trouble, get
fined? Would more people beseriously injured, die in the back

(11:19):
country if we started chargingfor rescue? So that's kind of here
in the States. That's sort ofthe line that continues to exist
is like, well, we'd rathertake the side of let's just let people
call if they need it and notcharge them so that they will actually
reach out. But on one hand,this dude just passed all these.
It was willful ignorance onhis play, right? Like he willfully

(11:40):
did this. Other hikers toldhim to turn around. So he was clearly
too special for that. So Idon't really feel that bad for him.
But I do think we need tofigure out, like, where would we
draw the line? So, you know,are you find something like a mandatory
donation to the local searchand rescue operation. If you ignore
a closure and get intotrouble, that's fine with me. But

(12:00):
a blanket charge for anybodywho asks for a rescue, which would
include people who just haveaccidents, medical conditions, things
like that. I'm not so coolwith that. Like, I really do think,
yeah, how do you tie it intopeople's willful, like, flouting
of the rules, their willful stupidity?
Well, and the reason why I wasokay with it when I lived in New
Hampshire at the time isbecause it's well documented. Like,

(12:21):
why Mount Washington is aquote unquote dangerous mountain,
right? It's because it's veryaccessible and people like roll up
there without really knowingwhat they're getting into. And people
go up there in the winter andit's like you and stuff that they
should not have on or stuffthat they should have brought that
they did not bring. And atthat point, you are putting other
people at risk. This guy's inthe middle of a landslide. They just
send a helicopter to pick himup. Think about the people flying

(12:43):
the helicopter. That's not aregular situation for just being
zipping around in a helicopterto go and pick this guy up. But yeah,
if you're in trouble, youshould be able to get help. And I
guess it is almost like itcomes down to the decision makers
of who's saying, oh, no, yougot to pay for it or you don't that's
like a really hard position.
How do you draw? Like, how doyou make it really obvious? I'd be

(13:06):
really curious to hear frompeople who volunteer for search and
rescue and. And do that. Like,what is your perspective? Because
I think that there are somepeople. I think the. The line, the.
The through line, the partyline here in the States generally
is we don't charge for rescuebecause we don't want people to not
call. But I have to feel likethere are some search and rescue
folks who feel otherwisebecause of some of the circumstances

(13:28):
they've experienced or like,the heard of. So I'd be curious.
Email myrockfightmail.com andlet us know.
Yeah, please. This is onewhere, again, we never heard back
from anybody. What was the onewe really wanted? Oh, the mules,
the running mules, the Strava mules.
Nobody's doing that.
No, but there's got to be somesearch and rescue people out there,
right? So, yeah, please reachout. I would really like to hear

(13:49):
that. Your perspective on it,because this. There's a gray area
here for sure, but I'm surethere's some times when it's just
like you're like, oh, no, no,we should be charging these people
who aren't getting charged andvice versa.
So, no, if you haven't. Youknow, speaking of search and rescue,
Brie Lo used to be a searchand rescue personnel, and she's written
two fantastic books. One ofthem is called Found. I can't remember
the name of the other oneoffhand. I've read them both. Dead

(14:10):
man and Pickets. They're bothfantastic books. So if you're interested
at all in sort of what. Whatsearch and rescue people do and what
the reality is out there.She's got a very specific take on
it, but it's. They're bothgreat reads.
Maybe she'd be a good guess onopener or Gear Abbey or Gear Abbey
or Gary Abbey. Gear Abbey. Maywant to know about this exciting
new podcast coming soon to apodcast app near you.

(14:34):
I'd have Brian and be like,why are people stupid? Tell me everything.
I love that question.
It's just gonna be once anepisode. Why are people stupid?
That's a good segment name.Why are people stupid?
Terrible. It's terrible.
This is the Modern Darwin Awards.
We're saving that for the rockfight. That's.
That's true.
We are saving it for the bison touchers.

(14:54):
That's a good point. That is alittle bit more of a rock fight segment.
Yeah. Yeah.
All right, next story.According to Syracuse.com last month
a New York man was arrested atthe Lake Placid Ironman after police
received a complaint that he,quote, allegedly left his young son
unattended while competing,end quote. The 44 year old man set
off to compete in the Iron manwhile leaving his 9 year old son
alone in the race's VIP tentfor 10 hours. Volunteers and Ironman

(15:17):
staff noticed that the boy hadbeen alone for a long time and upon
realizing his father wascompeting, they contacted the authorities.
The father has since beenreleased but is expected back in
court earlier this month. Wasexpected back earlier this month.
So this to me is like thedarkest side of like the active outdoor
sporting life that we asamateur enthusiasts pursue. Like
what, what did you think when.

(15:38):
You heard about this successat all costs? Well, you know what
I originally thought becausewe texted about it, but you know,
my, my initial, like, myinitial gut reaction was like, hey,
I'm Jim. I'm a former schoolsocial worker with I, which I think
nobody knows about me unlessyou've known me for a long time.
But I used to work inelementary school, then I worked
at a middle school and we hadthe police there like every day.

(15:59):
It was ridiculous. So I amgenerally against calling the police
into a situation when there'san alternative solution. So in my
mind for this one, I was like,oh, the immediate solution was to
go yank this jackass off thecourse and take him to his son. And
as far as your question aboutsort of are your sort of thinking
about this, is this the darkside of the sport? So it's like somebody

(16:21):
being so into their sport thatthey could just ditch their kit for
10 hours. I can't.
Yeah, it makes me so mad.
Like I've certainly trained myass off for certain objectives or
races and I've had to givethings up though, to not go to those.
You know, things come up inlife. Life gets in the way. Attention
needs to be elsewhere. I justdon't think for me a competition,
these are all made up thingsthat we've decided are important.
A kid is not a made up thing.That's your real responsibility.

(16:43):
I mean, I want to know moreabout what you think about this because
you're, you're a dad. Likewhat, what went through your head?
Just kind of what you said. Imean, it's like there's the second.
I mean, there's stuff in myown life that I don't have to do
with my kids where I've had tolike, you know, either bail or reschedule.
Something or whatever when itcomes to your kids, that especially
young kids, there's a contractthat you sign effectively when that

(17:06):
person comes into the worldthat like you don't do like this,
that that is the priority infront of you now. And this is. I
think it's almost worsebecause apparently there was like
an older brother involved whowas supposed to watch the kid who
couldn't fulfill thatobligation. And then the dad bought
a VIP pass for the nine yearold. Right. And, and I, I get what

(17:28):
you're saying about the. Theauthorities. I feel like I could
kind of go with. I guess itdepends on where was he on the course
and their ability to get tohim versus how long the kid had been
waiting. And you know howcomfortable were the people who were
in this tent, right?
Yeah. Because it's not theirjob. Sure.
Of course there's a scenariowhere like, I totally would have
been like, I'm calling thecops. Like, there's definitely a
scenario where that happens. Iagree with you that maybe that's

(17:49):
not your knee jerk. But Ijust, I'm trying to picture just
these people sitting heregoing like, what's with the kid?
Yeah, what's going on with thekid over there? Is he all right?
Is he disqualified? Did he tryto race? Is he just gonna chill in
the tent?
Couldn't heck into the swim,kid. Yeah, but it's so. It makes
me so mad. And there is a partof me too that is at the same time

(18:11):
that is like, I don't know, Iwasn't there. There are definitely
missing gaps in the story, butthis gets pretty black or white pretty
quick for me. Like, look, youknow, especially when you find out
that the big brother couldn'tdo it, it'. Hey, sorry, man. Guess
what? Yeah. You spent all thattime training and that's when I go
to. Now this is the part ofthe outdoors that I don't like, when
it's the people who are soserious about it that are so defined

(18:32):
by it that I don't care ifthis has been your dream since you
were a child, to go race inthe Ironman Lake Placid. Too bad,
dude. Go get your kid andschedule and register for next year.
Yeah, you know what? You'refit. You should be happy at how fit
you are because you could doan Iron Man.
Yeah.
It's not enough.
Yeah. I mean, honestly, youknow, just thinking about how, you

(18:54):
know, think at least hedeserves a ban if not a suspension
from Ironman events at thispoint. Like, that's just such a Shitty
thing to do to the people whowork at the event, who are working
for the event. You know, theydon't have their liability insurance,
doesn't include babysittingservices. So it's, you know, at the
very least, super poorjudgment. And I think that there

(19:14):
should be some sort ofrepercussion for him. I mean, I have
to assume having the copscalled on you is a pretty big enough
repercussion dates. How'slike, I think that's, he's probably
good for now, but you know,also, he just. Yeah, what a wild.
He has a court date. I mean,then they arrested. It wasn't just
like the cop going up andthere, there was obviously a reason
why they felt like they neededto do that, I would assume. I don't

(19:36):
know. I, I, I just, you know,I want to think the best that, that,
that people can come around,that they can learn from their mistakes.
But this makes it really hardfor me to not just kind of connect
dots that maybe aren't thereabout, like, what's this kid's life
on regularly. If this is kindof what happens to him at the weekend
when his dad wants to go do atria. Oh, this was rough. This one
got my blood boiling.
So you don't think, what areyou doing, man? You don't think the

(19:57):
kid's gonna start getting intohis own triathlons now? He's gonna
be like, screw this beat youdad. My dad abandoned me as a child
and now I cannot run.
See the 80s drug commercials Ilearned about watching you.
Oh, man. 80s drug commercials.80s and early 90s. Like, there was
a great one, I think, early90s, about method meth, that the

(20:20):
refrain is meth. And myfriend, when we were on the Colorado
trail, my friend was singingit to me because we were both super
low energy. He's like, I havea song for us. In the whole commercial,
you know, this PSA was allabout how meth is so bad for you
because it gives you energy todo your housework and all these other
things. Oh, my God. So, yeah,we started singing just the refrain

(20:42):
just as a pair of cyclistscame around the corner. As we're
like.
Oh, a few days into our hike,we're already going insane, so just
excuse us. That does make mewant. Is that if that's kind of the
takeaway from a lot of thosePSAs, the PSAs don't really exist,
like, the way they used to.
No, that's because I thinkthey realized that all they were
doing was encouraging us to doall the bad things.

(21:04):
Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, Iguess if anything comes out of this,
it's fine. But I just, youknow, again, like guys, it's important
as amateur athletes. It'simportant to have goals, it's important
to stay fit and to find thosethings that fulfill us and all of
those things. But not at therisk of a.
Nine year old child, child abandonment.

(21:24):
Right.
But daddy got a medal.
Yeah, man, it really suckedfor me but he got that medal. You
know, the finisher's medal.
Whoop dee doo.
All right, next up, accordingto Irunfar endurance enthusiast and
overall athletic Superman,Kilian Journey has announced his
next project. It's called theStates of Elevation. Journey will

(21:45):
set his sights on these UnitedStates of America in an attempt to
link up the 14,000 foot peaksof the low 448. Apparently he's going
to start at Long Speak inColorado and end at Mount Rainier
and Washington trying toconnect all 72 peaks at 14,000, 14,000ft
or higher. He's going to betraveling by bike and by foot, obvious.
Obviously by foot as he goesup the mountains, but by bike in

(22:06):
between. So you know, first ofall good, good luck. You know it
sounds hard but apparentlyKillian likes this stuff so I hope
it goes well said. I reallycould not give like less of a shit
about this.
You are such a killjoy orAchille and Joy. Oh no, I'm sorry,
I couldn't, I couldn't resist.
Big picture wise, I kind ofhope that he's funding him himself.

(22:28):
I'll say that brands are notsupporting this. Like these big attempts
by mountain athletes just seemstale at this point. I don't like
the idea of a lot of marketingmoney being spent on them. I feel
like there's much better usesof that money that, you know, other
than supporting someone's peakbagging goals. But I don't know what,
what do you think aboutKillian zipping around the US and
going up 14ers?
I mean, all right, I get anold man on your lawn always perpetually.

(22:50):
I'll just wait till shot. Igot a big old man on the line.
Shocking. Absolutely shocking.But I will also add this to me like
the reason, I mean he's not aNorth Face athlete. But I'm going
to say the North Face becausethey're pretty well known for their
athlete team. Things like thatexist. Sponsored mountain athletes
exist because it's notnecessarily, you know, these companies

(23:11):
aren't paying them to knockout a bunch of firsts and do things
that are truly groundbreaking.They're paying them to inspire the
everyday person and of course,hoping those advertising dollars
come back, back. But most ofus are never going to do what Killian
does because most of us arenot bionic freaks like Killian is.
But I guarantee there's peoplewho are going to look at him, who
look at people setting fkts,who look at people doing ultras,

(23:33):
like all sorts of differentthings. You know, skiing a bunch
of peaks. Like, I rememberwhen Caroline Gleich did all that.
I forget what she called it,but she did a ton of ski descents.
You know, I think Shootinggallery. Yeah, the shooting gallery,
exactly. It's, you know, evenour old fave tip to tip paddle guy.
That's out there, right?Excuse me.
Now just tip.
Just the tip to tip. Just thetip to tip. Our good paddle guy,

(23:56):
Kyle Parker.
Shout out.
Yep, shout out to Kyle. But Ithink people could see these people
doing these kind of contrivedthings. And it's not necessarily
to inspire them to say, well,now I, like Killian, shall run and
bike between these peaks. Itmight inspire me to say, you know
what? Right on, dude. Like, goget something big. And what do I

(24:16):
want to do that's big? I mean,I think it helps set a framework
sometimes for our own. So Ithink about when I started trail
running. I was trying tofigure out how to really get into
it, and I kind of set thestupid goal of running the Teton
Crest because that's whatHillary Oliver, who's a writer and
a filmmaker, and she wasrunning the blog at Outdoor Research
at the time. I was doing somework for her, and she had suggested

(24:37):
it to me, and I was like,yeah, all right. And it gave me something
weirdly concrete to focus on,even though no part of my brain thought
I was going to be able to doit as a new runner. But it did get
me out there running. And so Idid end up up, you know, working
toward my mileage, workingtowards elevation gain on trail.
And the end result for mewasn't running the Teton Crest. It
was that I got to spend a lotof time running in the Sierra. And

(24:59):
it was awesome. And it kind ofchanged my game as far as how I got
into trail, like, how Ienjoyed trail running and how I proceeded
with it. So for me, I don'tthink that I. I love that he's doing
this. I think it's great. Ilike the idea that people in, in
a time when these quote firstsdon't really exist and they don't
and they don't really matter.Like what he's doing doesn't matter.

(25:23):
It's not like important in thegrand scheme of things. Do I think
it's fun? Hell yeah, I thinkit's fun. Go get it, dude. I look
forward to following along.
All right. I'm not going todisagree with anything you said.
I think you're what you.
Great stop there.
Like just move on.
Next.
But what I think is differentnow. And Kyle Parker is a good one.
Like he's just a guy, right.And so like it's just kind of game

(25:44):
up the California, you know,the age of these sort of, you know,
the Superman superwoman, like,you know, the Alex Honnolds, the
Alex Lowe back in the day. DanOsmond, the original North Face climbing
team. Lynn Hills and what theywere doing were sort of important
and were those first that weresort of inspiring back then. And

(26:04):
it's like now I'd be much moreinterested in what Kyle's doing or
what like Amyrna Valerio'sdoing or somebody who's like got
a. It seems more like anybodyelse in a certain degree. Right.
It's like I think. And I thinkthat's a. That's a. That's a change
in how we consume things. Ithink it's. It's how we look at,
you know, influencers on orpeople who post on social media who
are just kind of like you andme who are out doing interesting

(26:26):
things are probably morefascinating to me than seeing like
Killian who is a. He is agenetic freak. I mean you've seen
him like jump up and down onhis ankles and nothing bad happens
to him. He's incredible. Whichis incredible by the way.
Like I said, not too createdby AI. He's the original AI bot.
He's chat GPT in human form.
So when I look at where brandsare spending money, I'd rather like

(26:46):
support Kyle. Right. Like, youknow, that guy is just a kid from
I think Wisconsin who's likeI'm going to paddle across the country
and name it something funnylike yeah, yeah, I support that guy.
Oh yeah, no, I would love tosee. Absolutely. It's like when we
talked about totallyforgetting his name. But the PCT.
FKT guy who was sponsored byAdidas, who kind of drove me nuts.

(27:08):
Tim. Tim Olson.
Tim Olson, yeah.
Timothy Olsen.
And it's like we talked aboutthis. No dig for training and for
knocking that out doing anincredible job, you know, something
I certainly couldn't do. Butit wasn't fun for me to Follow that.
Because it was so heavilyplastered in Adidas, like, it felt
just like one long corporatevideo about hiking. And so which

(27:29):
is like the most.
Basic layer of sponsorship. Iremember even, like in the. In the
2000s, like, hey, we'll putyour banner. I may have even said
this when you mentioned it.We'll put your banner up at the race.
Like, yeah, for the 200 peoplewho see my banner, then what am I
supposed to get from that? You know?
But see, I think this isdifferent because I don't think.
And now I haven't seen. We'llsee. Once he starts posting it about
it or his team or whatever,like, does it become a big spot?

(27:50):
And the thing is, Killiandoesn't have a ton of sponsors right
now, so I think it's a littledifferent in that regard. And I don't
think this comes off as amarketing ploy, which unfortunately
Tim's. Because of the wayAdidas did it. And I think this is
all a misstep on Adidas'spart. Not Tim's.
Yeah, Tim's just like, I wantto do this adventure.
Thank you for making. Thankyou for making it possible.
Exactly, exactly.
No, you can't blame him. Sofor me, this. This strikes a little

(28:13):
different. This feels a littlebit more like. I absolutely agree
with you that I would love tosee more everyday people who want
to do kind of out therethings, get support. I think of Arts.
Who Sonica Arts. His trailname is Carts. Arts Carts who? Sonica.
He's in his 60s. He lives inArizona. This guy is doing things
like yo yos on the Arizonatrail, paddling across, you know,

(28:36):
Yukon Territory, like, youknow, in his well into his 60s. And
I love following what that guydoes because he is just a fascinating,
joyful guy who's like, I'mjust gonna go out and do some fun
stuff. So, you know, yes,more. More support to those folks
for sure. But I'm still gonnaenjoy following this. To me sounds
like an interesting, funlittle thing. And I'm curious to
see if he's able to get itdone and enjoy it in the process.

(29:00):
Okay, so let's blend. Youknow, my hate of everything and your
optimistic point of view. Soif brands, if you're sponsoring and
it could just be normal, who'shis footwear brand? So that might.
Maybe that's it. In which caseit's like, I think he's an owner
there, so cool. But if it'sother folks as well, you know, how
do you get the communityinvolved? How do. When you're breezing
through some of theselocations. If you're climbing 14ers,
there's going to be mountaincommunities around most of the places

(29:20):
you're going to go. Like howdo you get people to kind of are
there meet and greets, Arethere things at retailers? You know,
how do you kind of like makeit more than just. Here's another
picture of Killian running upa hill like, yeah, fair never saw
that before.
Wow. Boy, that guy can run.
I bet he did it really well.
So well, we'll see, won't we?We'll have to talk about it maybe

(29:41):
once. Once he's completed. HeyKillian, you want to come on the
rock fight now? He's got tocome on. Come on, Gear Abby.
Yes.
A third of this episode. We'vetalked about you, Killian. Come on,
gear Abby.
So what do you want to talkabout, all my big and. No, no, we
want to talk to you about poop.
That's why we have you on gearAbbey again, Owen. It wasn't me.
Are you ready for thelightning round, Colin?

(30:03):
I'm ready for you to talkabout Lems.
Well, let's do that then. I'dlove to. I'd always.
I'll do it. If you don't wantto, it's fine.
I always want to too. Don'ttry to steal my Lem's thunder. All
right. Today's episode of theRock Fight is presented by Lemz.
Looking for shoes that offerboth long lasting durability and
all day comfort. Well, look nofurther than Lem's. With a versatile

(30:25):
lineup featuring over 30thoughtfully designed styles. From
minimalist sandals and ruggedtrail boots to vegan friendly sneakers
and laid back slip ons,there's truly something for everyone.
1. Whether you're hitting thetrail, traveling the globe or strolling
through town, Lems are builtto move with you naturally and keep
up every step of the way. Getshopping [e-mail] lemshoes.com

(30:47):
would be better though. Thatthere will work my lens. Rock fight
dot com.
All right, are you ready? Areyou ready now for the lightning round?
Oh yeah, I've been ready apparently.
Lightning round.
All right. First up for thelightning round. According to adventure.com,

(31:10):
it has been predicted that285,000 tourists could be visiting
Antarctica by 2034. Whichapparently is a conservative estimate,
but twice the current number.Shantae, should a fragile place like
Antarctica be sold as atourist destination at all?
Woof. Well, I can't help butthink about what Happened in Iceland,
where they did such a good jobdrawing tourists, but didn't account

(31:32):
for what became a verynegative impact on the environment,
which is very measurable. So Ithink tourism to fragile places,
I mean, is this the wholeworld now? Should include some sort
of countermeasures thatprotect those environments. Things
like requiring volunteerism,hefty fees, maybe that tie into preservation
efforts. Maybe a one year oneoff cycle, something like that.
I mean, upwards of 300,000people was crazy to me. Like, I can't

(31:54):
believe that many people. Imean, I knew it was getting more
popular, but Jesus, I think most.
Of them stay on the boats.
All right, next up. Earlierthis month, a chairlift collapsed
at a resort resort in Russia,leaving 8 hurt. While this isn't
a common occurrenceoccurrence. What's your take on riding
Chair loves you. Do you neverquestion your safety or do you convince
yourself that each one youtake could be your last moment on
earth?
I'll be honest, it's more ofB. And you're not gonna like what

(32:15):
I'm about to say, but the onlytime I really thought that I was
going to fall out of achairlift was on the Mount Baldy
lift, which I suggested youtake after your hike earlier this
summer.
Sorry, I'm gonna breakLightning round protocol. You're
100% right. I was literallyfiguring out how I was going to dive
off of that chair because Ikept stopping and it's rickety as
shit as shit. All right, laststory for the lightning round. On

(32:38):
August 5, Sam Shoemakerpaddled a mushroom that he grew himself
and molded to be shaped like akayak. 26 miles from Catalina island
to your hometown of LosAngeles. Are mushrooms the future
of recreational paddle sports?Or are we now just one step closer
to the last of us becoming a reality?
Mushrooms are the future ofeverything. I mean, they are all
joined up in their little likemycelium networks underground talking

(33:00):
to one another. I honestly,humans haven't done such a stellar
job. So maybe we should justhand everything over to the mushrooms
and orcas and see what they dowith it.
He needs to figure how topaint it though, because it was kind
of gross looking. It justlooks like a big like, like, it looks
like something Leatherfacemade in like the third chainsaw text.
Like, someone put lotion inthe basket.
Yes, Buffalo Bill would like aword. All right. Today's main story

(33:25):
is presented by Oboz, wholoves hiking. And as the cupid of
the outdoors, Oboz wants tohelp. You love hiking just as much
as they do. So Last month onthe trek, co featured writer Katie
Jackson posted a piece aboutthe quote, controversial and hotly
debated points of trailetiquette. Now anyone who spends
any time on any trail willimmediately form opinions about the
right and wrong way to be outthere there. So I thought we'd use

(33:48):
Katie's article as a guide totalk about some of these, you know,
on trail scenarios and how wefeel about them. We've touched on
some etiquette things before.I have definitely talked about some
etiquette things on thepodcast over the years.
From your front porch fistingup, I've.
Talked to the clouds.
Old man yells at Clouds Starring.

(34:09):
That's right. If I can winthat were that title I would be,
that'd be a bigaccomplishment. So the six categories
according to Katie's article,there's Right of Way, Yielding, Music,
Leash Dogs, Food, Packing andMuddy Patches. Actually, before I
tee you up, do you have anyjust sort of general etiquette or.
I don't want to spoil anythingyou're going to say, but do you have

(34:30):
any sort of general thoughtson etiquette before we kind of get
into it?
I will say that you got kindof two schools people out there.
You have the people who knoweverything and are dicks to other
people who don't knoweverything and then you have people
who know everything and try tobe nice when they're educating other
people. So I, I had an examplemaybe two summers ago I was up by

(34:50):
Cathedral Lake in Yosemitecamping for the night. I was on a
couple multi week backpackingtrip and when I got to the lake there
were a couple of tents rightnext to the lake. And so I was like
okay. I looked to see it was abunch of, it was like three young
girls, like pretty young,maybe 20, 21, I don't know. And,
and as I am get my friends andI are gonna go set up in the woods

(35:12):
and this guy comes past and myfriends and I are having snacks next
to the lake. Before we kind ofor we, we had set up our camp, we're
having snacks by the lake. I'dkind of chit chatted with the girls
and I, you know I went over tosay hi and without me saying anything
they said we're too close tothe water, right? I'm like yeah.
And I kind of explained likeyeah, we really don't want to camp
right next to the waterbecause it's sort of.
But they opened the door for you.

(35:33):
They did. They? Yeah, theywere real, they were really chill.
They kind of knew. And so Iwas really chill with them and I
said, yeah, you know, it'always a great idea because a, it's
harder for everybody to beable to enjoy the water and then
also the animals don't feelcomfortable coming up sometimes when
there's like big humanencroachments and they're like, oh
no thanks. Totally thanks forbeing cool with us. This dude comes
by a little bit later and hejust yells, yeah, I guess the hundred

(35:57):
foot rule, huh? I was like.And I turned to him and I said, sorry,
what? He's like, yeah, fuckthe hundred foot rule. I guess just
camp wherever you want. I waslike, first of all, those aren't
my tents. My tents are in thewoods. You know what he does? He
goes and walks into the woodsto see if mine and the two people
I was camping with there andhe comes out salty as fuck. He's
like, whatever. Walks away.

(36:18):
I was like, did he show youhis badge? You know the trail police,
you know. Jesus Christ.
Yeah, so I don't, I don't lovethe trail police. I think we can
all do a better job of kindlyeducating each other. Like people
being assholes is one thing,but a lot of people honestly are
just ignorant. Colin. So goahead, let's run through these. We'll
see. See what I think.
No, I think, and I thinkthat's a great table setter because

(36:38):
we're obviously going toexpress some opinions right now.
But I think there is sort of alisten either if you're, if you're
going to address it withsomebody, number one, expect that
they may not like it even ifyou're nice about it. You might be
just better off just gettingaway as quickly as possible to put
that bad experience behindyou. But there are times when it's
like, you know, just be awareof that. Be aware of what your approach

(36:59):
is. I mean if that guy hadbeen, if he really, man that's his
bugaboo. Just come down and belike, hey guys, look man, I know
it's really nice to be next tothe water, but you really can't be
down here. I mean even thenit, that's a little more aggressive
than what you did. But it'salso like it was just, you know,
it's, it's defensible I guessis my, is my point.
Yeah. Other than instead ofyelling the 100.
Foot rule, maybe you don't,you know, how about this, buddy?

(37:21):
They probably don't even knowwhat that rule is because they're
camp right next to the Water?
No, they connect some dots. Itwas their first backpacking trip
too.
Oh my God. All right, well, I,I comboed the first two categories
right of way and yielding tobikers, hikers and horses because
they kind. There's somecrossover there. So, so the, the
etiquette states downhillersgive way to uphillers. Everyone yields

(37:41):
the horses, bikers yield, thehikers and bikers get jack shit.
Like no one. You get nothing.No, that's the way it is. If you
ride a bike, no one yields toyou. Like you just, you get to just
pull over for everybody. Sohow do you feel about what's going
on on the trails on these two categories?
All right. I'd say I'm mostlyon board with these concepts, except
for I do not like that inorder to yield to horses, they suggest

(38:03):
you stand on the downhill sidebecause horses will tend to spook
uphill. And so it's not myfavorite when I'm on a steep trail,
there's a big drop off, but,but I always do it. I also try to
hide my trekking poles cuzsome horses will get spooked by those.
Um, I also yield to cyclistsgoing downhill because I don't want
to get squashed. Andpersonally this is easier. Yeah,

(38:23):
I also yield to cyclists goinguphill because honestly, I think
they're working a littleharder than me in that moment. I
mean, I'm working hard, buttheir quads are probably burning
a little harder. So for mepersonally, I think a bike, you know,
you've got something underyour control like let's give those
way is my opinion. Um, but Ido really wish more people gave uphill

(38:44):
hikers the right of way inthose hiker versus hiker situations.
Because when I'm hiking ortrail running, I'm trying to keep
my breath as measured andrhythmic as pop, you know, as possible,
especially on those uphills.And I tend to have a pretty good
cadence then like of my breathand my steps and everything. So it's
always a bummer to interruptthat. And so I'll. I. But I don't
mind stepping to the sidesometimes for a breather, panting,

(39:08):
gasping for air if I need to.But yeah, I think people still don't
really adhere to the hikerversus hiker uphill yielding, but
I would like them to.
This combo here is like theone that causes probably the most
issues on trails. Right. And Ithink, and I, and I think your instincts
are right, especially likeyielding to bikers or whatever it
is. It's just being proactive.But it also, I think then sets a

(39:30):
bad precedent for people whodon't know because then they think,
oh, hikers are supposed tostep aside from me. And I've experienced
that too. So I tend to. As amountain biker, I tend when I'm hiking
or running, I go right in themilitary and I stand there. Not stand,
but I move because like, Ihave the right of way and I want
to see what they're gonna do.My point of view on all of these
things is just, yes, there'sprobably the technically right or

(39:52):
wrong way. The right thing todo is just is deference to the other
people.
You'll just say, hey, on your left.
Or whatever, take a secondright. And just what is the other
person gonna do? If it meanslike, hey, they're really barreling
through on foot or on bike.And then, okay, great, I'll just,
I'll just step aside. The onethat is drives me crazy, and I'm
sure I've talked about this onthe podcast before, is when it comes

(40:13):
to horses, you're talkingabout bringing a whole other massive
thousand pound entity intowhatever's happening on the trail
that has a brain and is a preyanimal and prone to spooking. You
stop whatever you're doing andyou look at the person riding and
say, hey, what would you likeme to do?
Yeah, I've done that a lot.Yeah. Like, what's the best thing?
Because I've been insituations. Just maybe two weeks

(40:34):
ago, I was in the Sierra andthere was a whole pack train just
coming like across the trail.And I was like, can I go? I don't
know, what should I do here,guys? Because they were, they weren't
in a line, they were justspread like all the horses were just
nilly. It was just horsemayhem. And. Yeah, and I've seen
horses, I've been on horseswhen they get spooked. And it's,

(40:56):
it is not my favorite thing.
So you can get hurt. The, theme as the hiker or biker on the ground
can get hurt. I mean, it'sjust like, it's just dumb. Like just.
I've seen and I've seencyclists, mountain bikers arguing
with people on horses over whohas the. Right away. And it's like,
shut up. Pull off to the side.
Just. Yeah. Or just talk, likecommunicate. I wish more people just
looked at each other. I thinkso many people think it's their own

(41:18):
private Idaho out there, whicha lot all of these etiquette things
kind of come back to. Butwe're all Sharing this space. So
let's figure out how to do itthe least obtrusive way possible.
And I would now, I would sayto the more experienced trail users,
then we can move on to thenext one. Is also adjust your expectations,
because I noticed that too. IfI go out on a busy. A trail that

(41:40):
gets a lot of use from a lotof. There's horses, there's hikers,
there's runners, there'sbikers, man, there's going to be
dicks. There's going to bepeople who don't know what they're
doing. There are people maybeon there, they're pushing strollers
who don't know what they'resupposed to do. So just be a little
patient. Just take a breath,and if you really don't want that
of that experience, then don'tgo to that trail that day.
All right, what else you got?

(42:00):
We solved that.
Yeah. Fixed.
I'm just going to clear outfor a mute music, which I think was
mostly related to people whobring their speakers on trail.
Oh, my God. That's the worst.
Over to you.
Yeah. No, I did not sign up toshare your Spotify account. That
is my take on this. It's my.Honestly, it's my number one pet
peeve when I'm hiking, whenpeople are using speakers. And I.

(42:21):
I really only get annoyed withit when I'm in the back country.
Like on a front country trail,something like Griffith park or whatever,
you do your thing. I don't care.
Well, that's not. Back tothat. I just don't know.
Yeah, it's not my favorite,but I also am not as bothered by
it because we're in thispublic space. Like in a public park,
you're hear radios. It's justhow it works. But in the back country,
I think people also don'trealize that wilderness regulations

(42:43):
actually ask that you don'tplay amplified music. So I know there's
people who think it's boringto hike without music. I know there's
people who feel like musicmotivates them on trail, which we
obviously talked about when wemade our 90s playlist with Doug.
Or they feel like using music,they're nervous, and they feel like
it'll help them scare away anyanimals that might attack or whatever.

(43:05):
And I understand that one's alittle silly. No, it's not. Colin,
you know how many people usebare bells on trails? It's the same
concept. No.
Okay.
It's not silly. It's. I thinkfor a lot of people, that's they're
nervous to be out where a bearor something might.
Sure, I make it. I mean, I get it.
So. So their thought is like,oh, and I've met people who've done
this and that's their thoughtis it'll scare them away. But that

(43:28):
last one is actually true. Andso it's kind of a crappy thing to
do to play the music becauseyou're really disrupting this environment
we're walking through. So thatis the bear's environment or it is
the marmots environment. Youknow, I had to bring a marmot into
this. I don't know, maybemarmots do like some smooth jazz
or something. I'm imaginingI'll try next time.

(43:48):
Go to what marmots listen to.That's our next ultimate.
I'm just gonna carry a pair ofmaracas out with me. I have some
and just see, like.
Would that be as equallyannoying as someone walking with
a speaker, though?
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.I'm not a fan. Like, I've been up
on mountaintops where I havebeen out there when people have busted
out a guitar or something. AndI'm like, I don't really want to

(44:09):
listen to your campfire soundsright now. I just want to be here
on the mountain. But I havealso seen, like, I, you know, I've
seen people bring stringinstruments into remote places and
it is pretty neat to see thosevideos. Do I know if I don't know
that I'd want to be there inthe moment? Moment. I like the concept,
but no, I really. I can hear alot of sounds where I live in the

(44:31):
city, so I don't want to hearamplified sounds and I'm out in nature.
The only time I was actuallyokay with it was. And I'm sure I
told this story as well, butlike a split rock mountain. Split,
split, Split rock mountain. Iforget. It's in Cuamoka State park
and it's this awesome sort oflike exposed summit. And it's great.
And we did a nighttime hike upit, an evening hike up it. We're
going to watch the sunset. Andwe got to the top and there was some

(44:54):
local hiking group that haddone it. And they're all drinking
hard kombucha and they hadmusic on and it was like a party
at the summit. And as I saythose words, normally I'd be like,
what the. Come on, stop it.But actually rolling up there. Cause
they started cheering as we'recoming up the summit. I'm like, oh,
yeah, this is great.
It was so because they broughtyou into it. That's the thing.
They brought you into it.
You got to be a part of it.It's different than somebody sort

(45:15):
of just blaring music.
Right? Right. When it comes. Itend to. It's just kind of same thing
like front country or youknow, depending on what the interaction
is. Like, especially if it'ssomebody going the opposite way.
I just, you know, I don't sayanything. Like the, the one thing
I will back. Back to theyielding. Like if I'm riding uphill,
especially on a bike, andanother cyclist comes downhill, I

(45:36):
will yell, uphill has right ofway. Like just. I'm like, I don't
care. Like, get mad at me ifyou want. Cause like that is that,
that is to me the one black orwhite, the uphill cyclist to another
cyclist. No, you pull over.That's what happens. And if you don't
know that, especially in theage of E bikes, which we're going
to get to in the parting shot,it's going to. It's. It's like it
can get really dangerous.Dangerous. And if somebody's coming

(45:58):
the other way and they have aspeaker on, then I try and ignore
it and they'll be gone in afew minutes. But yeah. Generally
speaking though, no, just.What do you do? What in the. There's
so many earbud options.There's so many.
Just do it.
All right, next up, leasheddogs. Etiquette states your dog should
be on a leash unlessotherwise. Unless stated otherwise.

(46:18):
And I agree with that. As adog owner.
Yeah, I love dogs. I lovehiking with dogs. I love meeting
dogs on trail. But I also donot want to get run up on aggressively
and barked at that and. Orknocked down, which has happened
to me. I've. I got knocked outon the Colorado trail with my full
pack on and I was pissedbecause this dog ran up to me. I
actually thought it was abear. I was like, oh, this bear is
charging me because it was areally big dog and I only saw it

(46:41):
for a second and it just likebounded right into me and knocked
me over. And then the ownercomes up a minute later, he's like,
oh, sorry. He's real friendly.I'm like, that's not friendly. That's
not friendly to be knockedover by a dog. So yeah, I think it's
also just not great to havedogs running around when we're talking
the back country domesticateddogs chasing wildlife. Like, your

(47:03):
dog may be very well behavedat home, but have you seen how your
dog Reacts. You don't knowthat. It's seen all the animals that
exist out there. How will itreact to that animal? So it's just
a good thing also for thewildlife to sort of keep things a
little more contained. But Iget it. Like, I understand how wonderful
it is. Like, dogs. I loveseeing dogs being free and living
their best doggy lives. And soit's a hard one, especially if it's

(47:25):
a corgi or an Australianshepherd. Like, not that dog run
up to me, but.
But.
But otherwise, maybe not.
I have two Australianshepherds, by the way.
I didn't know that. I can'twait to come see Lord of the Rings
now.
Oh, no, they're not. They'renot nice dogs. They got very co.
They don't know anybody. Theybark at everybody incessantly.
I'll fix that.

(47:45):
You can beat the one.
I'll be the one.
But. But that's. I've learnedthe hard way with dogs, right? I
mean, when I got my first dog,when my wife and I was like, 21,
22, we got a dog for free inthe farm. And it's this thing in
your head, like, we're goingfor a hike and just. You take it
off leash and we just runfree. And it is. And to your point,
there's that visual of the dogrunning. It's really fun.
They're all happy.
But unless you can justguarantee. And even my thing now

(48:08):
is like, even if you canguarantee me that the dog is under
voice command, put it on a leash.
Y.
There's a small mountainbehind my house. Talk about all the
time. I go up there and I'vehad multiple interactions where my
dog, who I. I'm. She's kind ofa dick, but she's not aggressive
or mean, right? She just barksa lot, right? And it's like. But
when we're up there, usuallythat means I have had 55 minutes
of my day open up that I'mgoing to run up there for a quick

(48:29):
hike to a workout in. I'mtaking my dog with me. And people
come out, oh, they're dogs.And as we come around the corner,
there's a dog off leash. I'mlike, my dog's going to be. Is on
leash and is going to beimmediately interested and going
to be kind of an asshole aboutit. Put your dog on a leash. Say,
hey, could you leash your dog,please? Oh, is your dog not friendly?
No, my dog's actually veryfriendly. I don't have time for you.
I'm not up here to hang outwith you and your dog. And it's like

(48:51):
so just also there's a sign atthe beginning of the trail that says
put your dog on a leash.
Leash.
It's not that hard. You justdon't want to do it.
That's true.
This is great. I'm gettinglots of.
I was going to say energy onthis. Is this like therapy for you?
This is amazing episode. Allright, last two. Food packing.
Food packing.
So the etiquette states thatyou pack out your food scraps. So

(49:14):
no banana peels on the trail?
No, no, no banana peels on thetrail. I feel like these the people
who are just leaving scrapseverywhere. The same people who used
to just whip cigarette buttsout of cars like in the 80s. Listen,
this is not a lonely islandskit. You should not just throw it
on the ground. This groundisn't part of your sanitation system.
The ground's not your dad.Okay. So for real though, I think

(49:37):
people assume that food willjust easily decompose. Right?
Right.
And. And that is and becomelike one with the soil. But this
is not the case with a lot offoods including the ubiquitous orange
peels. Little mandarin peelsevery freaking and wear they can
take 4 damn ever to breakdown. Especially in places here like
here arid places likeCalifornia. It's not wet enough here.

(50:00):
The little like think aboutwhat it takes for a compost pile
to actually work. A lot ofpeople don't understand compost piles
either. And they take they.You have to have the right conditions
for the in microbes to dotheir thing and everything to start
breaking down. Same thing inregular ass soil. So orange peels
can last for years. Do notleave your orange peels. They turn

(50:20):
into little petrified piecesof that I pack out. So yeah, I get
a little fired up about thatone too. Don't do it. Just carry
it out people.
What about empty goo packs areokay though right?
Oh my God. I've picked up somany of those. It's the pull tabs
on the top because it's likeall that little micro trash. I did
a thing. I don't think I'veever mentioned it but I did granite

(50:41):
gear. Did a program they mightstill be doing it called the Groundskeepers
where they geared up somehikers who were heading out to do
long trails with theexpectation that we would all pick
up garbage along the way. Andit was very illuminating focus being
focused on garbage whileyou're hiking. You realize how much
of it is actually out there.
Last one and I, I guess I dothink of this. And not as frequently

(51:04):
as the others, though. Muddypatches, which etiquette states you
go through the mud, not around it.
Yes. Yes. Sometimes this feelslike the hardest one of all, personally,
because you're, you're justlike, oh, I don't want to touch it.
So gross.
It depends on the consistencyof the mud you're about to walk through.
Yeah, some of it is just like,oh, like baby. But you just, you
gotta walk through it. Eventhough it's disgusting. I sometimes

(51:25):
have to take a moment andgather myself. But the issue with
walking around it is thatyou're widening the existing trail.
You might even create a secondrut which is gonna just become mud
and fill with water. And thenyou just keep widening. Like I was
up at Cathedral Pass inYosemite, this beautiful high altitude
alpine meadow, and it's alljacked up because there's multiple

(51:45):
trails running through it nowfrom people, people skipping the
main trail and trying to walkon the side of it. You're also killing
whatever foliage is there. Andas somebody who has done trail maintenance
and done trail building, I cantell you it's very hard and it takes
a really long time to evenjust build or maintain a mile of
trail. So please don't make itharder on, on any of us who are out
here doing this work so thatwe can all enjoy these trails.

(52:08):
It's just, you got to gothrough it. That's the way it is.
We're still. Got to go through it.
Dries out.
Yeah. Yeah. Got to go throughit. As the. Is the metaphor for.
For life.
There it is.
Or just say, or stay awayuntil it dries out. Maybe also a
metaphor for life. I don't know.
Well, I think that leads us toour oboe's outro.
Well, you know what? Today'stop stories on the rock fight were

(52:29):
brought to you by Oboz, whowants to share their love of hiking.
And we want to help them byuncovering all the different reasons
we love to take the long walk,including the following. Number one,
nature doesn't care. Careabout your follower count. And that's
why I love.
Have we talked to MotherNature about that? She really does.
I think she doesn't. Yeah, Ithink she's pretty firm on that.

(52:51):
Number two, nobody ever said,wow, that cubicle view is breathtaking.
Have you seen my cubicle?
I'm looking at it right now.
I know. It's pretty breathtaking.
Padded. It looks like you'rein a padded room. Very breathtaking.
That's how I live my life.
Oh, boy. Number three, everyroot and rock is a free agility course.

(53:12):
Especially if you're going,you're going through.
It for your entree unleashed dog.
That's right. Yes, exactly.
Good job, you. And numberfour, your new Oboz highlight mid
waterproof boots. The Obozhighlight is designed for lasting
comfort and made with recycledand bio based materials. Yeah. Saucy.

(53:34):
The highlight collection isdesigned to support, support your
stride, whether that's out onrocky switchbacks or wandering closer
to home. So this hikingappreciation moment is brought to
you by Oboz of Bozeman,Montana. Oboz is the maker of premium
quality footwear for the trailand the cupid to the outdoor world.
Oboz love hiking. Oh, boy. Nowwe, now we have to change the mood,

(54:00):
don't we, Colin? Because you do.
This has been a, this has beena therapeutic episode because it's
time for the parting shot. AndI have, I have some, I got some beef.
All right, so Shantae, pleaseremove yourself from my lawn. I hope
the clouds are ready for agood fist shaking.
Oh, boy.
Because old guy Collins herewith a hot take that is perfectly
timed, given our conversation.A trail, trail around trail etiquette.

(54:22):
I'm not going to make anybones about it. I'm just going to
say it straight up. I hate emountain bikes. I hate e mountain
bikes.
Such a hater.
I hate them so much. I've beenso good about you. Yeah, I've been
pretty good. But I understand,I understand that somebody with a

(54:42):
disability or an olderindividual helps them get out there.
I, I get that. But it doesn'tmean that I like them. And you're
right, obviously I have areputation. It's fine. But the other
day I was out mountain bikingand a pack of e bikers came up behind
me and passed me. No bells, nohay. Coming up on your left. Just
a quick glance at me asthey're passing by. Luckily I, I
was on a reasonably widetrail, otherwise it could have gone
badly. They just, it was likeseven people just go cruising by

(55:05):
me on an uphill. And then tomake it worse, to make it worse,
this is what I'm like. I'm.This is the parting shot this week.
I actually caught these guyslater in the ride. So going uphill,
there's like, like turbo modeor whatever. Zip it uphill. And then
I actually caught up to themand they're all like winded.
Did you feel, did you feelvery smug in that moment, Colin?

(55:27):
Oh, yeah. And I was riding myfully rigid mountain bike wow. Look,
I've said it before, but Ebikes are creating a generation of
riders who don't know how tomountain bike. They don't know the
etiquette. They don't have theleg strength to be out there in remote
places, understanding that ifyour bike fails, you're walking out.
And don't give me also, it'sthe. Oh, it's great. I can ride twice
as far as you. As like as theperson on the analog bike. Who cares?

(55:50):
I hate that argument so much.Since when is the good vibes or happiness
created by riding on mymountain bike been tied to being
able to gride further in agiven? The joy comes in earning those
miles, feeling strong, usingyour body to negotiate the technical
trail. And that feeling offlying when hitting the downhill.
I'm over it. I'm never owningan E bike. They suck. At least until,

(56:11):
like one day I really need to.And I'll change my opinion, but that's
my partnership.
Exactly. Wow, man, you.
I'm so mad.
If you were a climber, youwould have been one of those guys
bitching about how climbinggyms ruin climbing and nobody knows
how to climb.
On the flip side, I reallylove climbing gyms. I think it was
truly. It is part of thatetiquette thing. Like I'm obviously.
It's the etiquette. Yeah, I agree.
Over the top. If they hadsaid, hey, on your left, coming up

(56:34):
behind you. Just some typicaltrail stuff. But it's just. I mean,
I didn't know they were therebecause they were basically not pedaling
or it was like zipping alongand all of a sudden this guy's passing
me. I had this moment of like,how are you going so fast? Then I'm
like, oh, were you just.
Feeling salty because youweren't going to as fast?
Maybe it's okay.

(56:55):
Colin, I'm glad we could havethis therapy session for you today
though.
Truly. This was such a good episode.
Says you. Everybody elsestopped listening at the 30 minute
mark.
No way. The haters are herewith me.
Yeah. You're going to get someemails this week, I think. For sure.
I hope so. Send us youremails. We want your emails.
They're really all for Colinthis episode.

(57:16):
They are. Because I really.Over the top. Was. Was it bad?
No, it was great, actually.
Okay, good. All right, good.That is the show for the day. And
we do want your emails. Sendthem to myrockfightmail.com the Rock
Fight's a production of RockFight LLC for gear. Abby herself,
Chante Salibair. I'M ColinTrue. Thanks for listening and someone
who didn't make the 90splaylist. Sorry Krista makes we talked

(57:36):
about less than Jake for asplit second but you're here to sing
the rock fight fight song.Thank you very much for that and
we'll see you next time. Rock fighters.
Rock fight Rock fight Rockfight Rock fight Rock fight Rock
fight Welcome to the rockfight where we speak our truth Slay
sacred cows and sometimesagree to disagree we talk about human

(58:01):
powered outdoor activities andbig bites about topics that we find
interesting like pop culturemusic the latest movie reviews Ideas
that aim for the head this iswhere we speak our truth this is
where we speak our truth Rockflight Rock flight Rock fight Welcome

(58:23):
to the rock flight Rock flightRock flight welcome to the rock flight
Rock flight Rock flight Rockflight Rock fly Rock flight Welcome
to the rock flight Rock flightRock flight Rock flight Rock flight

(58:44):
flight.