December 8, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode, Colin, Shawnté, Eoin, and Producer Dave deliver their on-the-ground, end-of-show breakdown of The Running Event and Switchback 2025 — recorded moments after the TRE Retailer Awards wrapped in San Antonio.
The crew dig into what worked, what surprised them, and what the outdoor industry should take away from a trade show that knows exactly what it is.
On The Docket!
- The TRE Retailer Awards: Emotion, community & why it works
- TRE vs. Outdoor Industry Trade Shows
- Booth Breakdown: The Best & Worst
- Trends & Rumors From the Floor
- Predictions: Who got it right and who missed? The crew evaluates their earlier predictions now that the show is done.
Thanks for listening! The Rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight, LLC.
Please follow and subscribe to The Rock Fight and give us a 5 star rating and a written review wherever you get your podcasts.
Want to pick a fight with The Rock Fight? Send your feedback, questions, and comments to myrockfight@gmail.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
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(01:41):
Welcome to the Rock Fight,where we speak our truth, slay sacred
cows, and sometimes agree todisagree. This is an outdoor podcast
that aims for the head. I'mColin True and today we are recapping
the running event andSwitchback 2025. I'm here with Shante
Salibair, Owen Coverford, andproducer Dave. We are still in San
Antonio, Texas. We're at therunning event at the Henry B. Gonzalez
(02:04):
Convention center where we'vebeen all week. Guys were recording
this literally after the endof the running event Retailer Awards,
which was pretty awesome. Imean, just to start there, pretty
amazing event.
It really was. I mean. It'Sfunny because we usually, as you
know, leave before the end ofpretty much every trade show, but
(02:25):
they said, no, you gotta stayand check this thing out. And I'm
so glad that we did.
Stay for the cupcakes.
Oh, yeah, I had two. No, itwas really. There was something I
did. I'm not gonna lie. Iteared up at one or two points this
evening and I would never havein a million years have expected
that at a trade show. Award show.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I had middling expectations.Not good or bad. I'm like, they were
(02:47):
very. The folks at the runningevent who wanted us to come. Come
to the show and cover theshow. We did our live event yesterday
and it was like, okay, well,this will be cool. I'm sure it'll
be cool, but I'M like, youknow, mostly I was thinking, I think
we said in our preview pod,like, is this more of a mechanism
to get people to stick around?And this was so much more than that.
(03:07):
You could see why they reallywanted us to stay and see this.
Yeah.
But also, by the way, as amechanism to get people to stick
around, it was fucking genius.
Effective.
Right. Because so first ofall, they have, I think it was like
60 plus stores that get sortof like these top, top running store
plaques or awards. Right. Sobasically what you're saying is,
(03:29):
hey, and they have to be hereon the last night to pick it up.
So they're going to stickaround regardless. So you're going
to get the best retailers toyour show for both days to stick
around to get their plaque andto be honored that way. And then
there's the top five that theyknow that they're in the running
for the top retailer. And theother great thing is that then the
brands actually are givingawards to, to retailers as well.
(03:53):
So it's all about theretailer, all about them and the
best of the best. And justrecognizing that.
Well, I think even Owen, whenyou and I walked, we were going up
the escalator. We're like, oh,this is like running prom. You know,
running a retail prom. It wassuch that energy was so high. People
came in coordinating outfits.Like, it was really special.
I honestly, like, I have likea shacket and a T shirt on right
(04:14):
now and I was getting warm inthe shacket and then all of a sudden
I got really self consciouslooking at the room like, is anyone
else just wearing a T shirt atbasically an outdoor running event?
Like, no, I was like the onlyone in the room, like as a slob wearing
my T shirt and a hat.
So yeah, yeah, I think thelevel, genuine level of emotion was
just palpable. It was really,I was not expecting that. And there
(04:37):
were some heartfelt speechesand the support in the room for people
was just incredible. I mean itreally just, you know, it's a big
country, there's a lot ofstores and there's a long running
relationships here that youcould tell there was real support
for people when they would winan award.
The emotions felt authenticand real. The emotion from the brands
(04:58):
presenting the awardsdefinitely did as well.
And these stores showed up.One of the stores recognized by one
of the brands on in this casewas actually Charm City Run. When
they went up on stage, theyhad 17 people here from a single
run store.
Meanwhile, the store's beinglooted and like.
You know, that's what Ithought. Yeah.
(05:20):
Who's running the shop?
Hey, it's only the first weekof December.
They have plenty of time tomake up the holiday business. Business.
Well, listen, we'll get backto the awards in a second like Owen
said, but let's talk about theevent. And this is, and it's a good
segue into it from the awardsbecause the awards I think kind of
clarified a lot of things forall of us. Right. So first of all,
really positive week. I'lljust kick things off and want to
(05:42):
say my, my initial impressionhere and I think what this event
did for me this week and I'vebeen to the running event before,
but it really was seeing theawards, I think that helped sort
of clarify this. It's theissue that we run into in the outdoor
industry when it comes totrade shows. And we talk about, I
mean, what on a six weekcadence here on the rock, right?
It's a regular topic. We'realways talking about it. We're talking
to retailers about it. We talkto brands about it.
(06:03):
That and trail running.
That and trail running. Wait,we've said trail running. We've,
we're good now, right?
Check.
Yeah, good box checked. Butwhat we saw here at the running event
and exemplified primarily inthe, at the end of the night, here
at this, at the, at the awardsis a group of people in an industry
that truly understands itspurpose and understands its why.
These folks are all about therun retailer. This is a celebration
(06:27):
of the running retailer andthe foundation and it's the foundation
on which the space and thenthe trade show is built upon. And
I think that's somethingthat's seriously lacking in the outdoor
industry. I think we're soconcerned about what should the national
event be. We need the nationalevent, though we all don't often
stop and say, well, why do weneed it? What is it that we're doing?
And here like all week long, Isaid to one of you guys earlier,
(06:49):
I never heard one conversationabout like, hey, is this a good event?
Should we be doing this? Isthis good? Everybody was like bought
in the entire time.
But there is actually an eventin the after industry that does that,
that is retailer centric, thatis vibrant, that nobody's questioning
whether they should be thereor not. And that's goa, Right? Right.
And now that takes retailercentricity maybe to the nth level
(07:10):
with all of the rod is whatthis is. Right. And so I'm not suggesting
that that.
Should be and kudos to thatevent because we've always said that
event is different because of that.
Right. But it does show youthough that when you understand,
you know, the retailer, onestep away from the consumer is kind
of the front line that we needto recognize here, that creates the
(07:31):
energy that brings theretailers together and then the brands
together. And that is the underpinning.
I also feel like there'ssomething special in run and I said
this to you guys earlier, thatthere is. There is such a direct
tie to community when it comesto run. And we talked about. Yeah,
of course you have, you havegroup runs. That's just a common
thing. You have other kinds ofevents. And I've. Like back when
we had specialty retail in L.A, we had adventure 16, I'd say they
(07:55):
did a lot of events, but theywere in store events. And I think
there is a difference. Whenyou get out in the community and
you're doing things, you'redoing the thing that you're selling
the things for and you see thedirect, the direct connections here.
And I think there is, there'sthat you see the through line from
the brand to the retailer tothe consumer all in one line and
it feels really genuine. Andthere's something about the retailers
(08:16):
here too, feeling seen. Like,I got that sense, especially tonight.
I think that's a great pointand I think it's where this show
differs from the GOA in asense, both being retailer centric,
you know, here to do businessand see lines. But it does achieve
something that creates thisextra energy. Right. And it just.
I think that's what we're alllooking for and it's really that
(08:37):
spark is here. And you know,again, I think attaching switchback
to it is the right idea,whether that's going to stay rather
those audiences converge ornot. But we're certainly learning
in a sense how we can behaveagain, you know.
No, and we were saying just aslike on the Elvis escalator ride
down here like you made. Yeah,it was a long ride. All right. But
(09:01):
you made the point about thecommunity and you're right. And that's
the one thing I thought oftoo. And we mentioned we should go
check out Sea Otter. I want tosee kind of the cycling vibe and
it is simpler when there's.We're talking about one activity
or, you know, trail runningand running. Right. Trail running
is its own thing. Second mention.
That's though how they'retrying to create complexity. See
how complex we are. A trailand pavement, no gravel.
(09:24):
I didn't see any gravel.
I don't see any Gravel. Butno, but you know, when you're talking
about the complexity of anoutdoor shop, I mean, the climbing
community, the paddlingcommunity, the backpacker community,
all so distinct and so deep.How do you create threads of connection
between those?
But we know that the goodoutdoor specialty dealers, they still
are involved in theircommunities. We had a comment from
(09:46):
a retailer at Goa who's like,if you're not doing events in your
community, get ready to filefor bankruptcy because you're going
to lo lose. Right? So we knowthe good ones are doing it.
Absolutely. I mean, if youlook at it, pretty much every run
store has some kind ofcommunity run. I mean, you, you're,
you'd be crazy if you don't. Idon't think that's necessarily the
case with every especiallyoutdoor store.
Sure.
The good ones, you wouldthink. And we, well, we've talked
(10:07):
about it. How many times wetalked about, like you're mentioning
in Detroit, like, we set uplike a, the frozen waterfall that
people are ice climbing on andall these things. And like the ones
who get it and they do it. Soit exists. But isn't that. But then
when we talk about thenational event and the trade show
scene, it comes back to like,well, we get the brand retailers
together so they can dobusiness. And it's like, well, hold
on. Actually, why don't wecelebrate the community of the outdoors
(10:31):
and how we actually, how thesefolks actually support and lift each
other up. And that waseverything tonight was centered around
improving people's livesthrough going running.
Right? But I mean, what I hearthough, from some outdoor stores
is, well, that's easy, right?Anybody can run. You put on a pair
of shoes, you start outsidethe store. You know, the trail head
is, you know, 10 miles awayfrom my store. Yada, yada, yada,
yada. Excuses. If you're in asnowy climate, take people snowshoeing
(10:58):
in the park. Just theexperience of snowshoeing for the
first time is amazing. And itdoesn't have to be out in the wilds
hiking, you can do urbanhiking. It doesn't have to be at
a trailhead. It's about thecommunity aspect of just people getting
out there and doing this thing together.
Right? And it's like, link upwith community organizations. We
saw that a lot tonight in theawards where they're like, oh, this
(11:18):
run shop is linked up to thiscommunity organization. And then
this brand is supporting allof it. And I think for outdoor, it
shouldn't be that hard.There's so many, like, I live in
la and we have so many amazingoutdoor related organizations. And
I'm just thinking now, like,why. Yeah, why aren't, I mean, we
don't have specialty retailanymore, but if we did that, the
smart thing would be like, allright, let's link all of these things
(11:40):
together and let's use theresources we have here. What is special
about la? We've got Griffithpark, we've got the Arroyo, we've
got all these differentthings. Yeah. It just makes complete
sense to me and I don't thinkthis is so far beyond the pale that
that more outdoor specialtycould be doing this.
Well, no, and that's kind ofwhat I mean, Right? I mean, and not
just to pick on them, butthey're, they're, they're looking
to rebuild. Right. WhatOutdoor Retailer is doing and the
(12:01):
messaging so far has beenlike, hey, we're going to bring these
brands in, we're going tobring the, trying to get these retailers
in. And I wonder if like, hey,the message should be like, what's
the, what's, what is thecommunity aspect that we're bringing
together that just feels likewhat is actually missing? And that's
why even we go to these showsand we're like, oh, is this a good
show? Is it a good show foryou? Why are we here? And I just,
(12:22):
the thing that's impressed menot to be a broken record was like,
that was just answered here,like why this show exists. No one's
questioning it, right?
Nobody. And it's the firstweek of December. Right.
And they're still showing upthat to me, right. The, all the talk
about June. Right. And notthat any of the retailers who have
concerns about going to a showin June. I understand the concerns
you have, but if the show hasvalue, you will go in June. If that's
(12:46):
when the show is. Because itis December and that room was packed
full of retailers. BlackFriday was less than a week ago and
here they are and some of themwith a lot of people from their store.
I'm worried about some ofthese stores. Who is, who is, who
is opening these stores.
It's all E commerce right now.It's teenagers. You know, I also
(13:07):
think something, you know,Colin and Dave, you guys have been
to the running event beforeand you said, and other people have
talked about it since I'vebeen here, the energy for this show
has never waned and it's justbeen consistent year after year after
year. And I understand whynow. Whereas I think that's one of
the big things we've Talkedabout outdoor is like, oh, why isn't
anybody going to the show? Andwe're, oh, this felt really flat
(13:29):
and the floor was dead. Andyou don't. This has not happened
with Tre.
Well, I think there's stillkind of a show aspect here too. The
energy comes from the boothsand the brands itself. How many booths
did we see in the switchbacksection that were essentially a.
A drape and a rolling rack?
Oh, we have some that's coming up.
(13:50):
Later in the park, but justone after the other. And look, you
can still make thatpresentable and nice and there still
can be a brand story, but ifyou see too many in a row, it's going
to start to feel the same wayand kind of dampen the enthusiasm.
Well, so I think part of theissue is that trade shows are paid
(14:10):
for by the brands, right? Soas a trade show organizer, you're
like, well, we've got to makethe brands happy. They're the ones
paying the bills, they're theones who are doing the sponsorships,
they're the ones who areshelling out the cash, doing all
the fancy booths, etc. Sothey're the customer. Right. But
ultimately if the customer ofthe customer is your customer. Right,
(14:31):
and that is the retailer. Andso I think that is the missing piece.
Yeah, Dave, you make a goodpoint on the switchback side and
not to get into kind of stepon what we're going to talk about
in the booths in a second, butlike just Berghaus we saw today and
we chatted with Shane overthere and they had a very simple
setup that was colorful. Itdrew people in. It was in the switchback
side and they came with one ofmy predictions. They might be one
of the ones who tried too hardvia Try hard on the run. They didn't.
(14:54):
They had their very muchoutdoor centric thing and I'm like,
how's it going? He's like,it's going great. Talk to a lot of
run buyers who are interestedin our stuff. And honestly, I'm mostly
here because I want people tosee Berghaus and this is a floor
where there's a lot ofinfluential people. Whether it's
run, whether it's outdoor, weneed to show up because we're trying
to win in the long haul and weknow that eventually we're going
(15:15):
to be butting up against thePatagonias and the north faces and
the outdoor researchers, allthe entrenched, you know, outdoor
brands. And so he had a veryclear idea of, like, why they were
here. Versus to your point,Dave, some other folks who just like,
well, I guess we'll go tothis. Role in. And we're an outdoor
brand.
And to that point, it was verysimple about red wall, red floor
(15:37):
at Berghaus with. Yeah. Withproduct presented across. It stood
out.
Yeah.
It was so simple, but it stillhad energy to it.
Are you telling me that theCliff booth, which was just a guy
and a computer and a coupleshot blocks packets, was not engaging
for you, Dave? It was simple.
Well, like I said before, itlooks like a soggy Cliff bar. And
that's not. Guys, no one wants that.
They care very much aboutsustainability to the point where
(15:59):
they didn't even build.
A booth because you got toship a booth. I mean, there's a lot
of saved.
So many emissions. Think about it.
And that was why Patagonia wasthe same way.
Dude, you just got back ontheir good side after your awesome
LinkedIn post.
Right.
Owen's had a little wine. Iwas just gonna say, you know.
(16:20):
You could really use some ofthat stale inventory at Cliff and
build a pretty cool booth.
I've had some stale Clif bars.I know what that's like, right.
Actually intact.
Right. Little gingerbreadthing going on. It's December.
Well, wait, are we donelavishing praise on the running event
and saying what we could learnfrom it? Is it time to move into
booths?
I think the overall event,though, I thought was. Looking at
(16:46):
old or it was that energy.Maybe not. I mean, the aisles weren't
quite as packed. You couldactually walk in the aisles, but
it was. There were big booths.There were little booths. It had
that feel of. Of commonality.And then the other thing, actually,
I liked San Antonio as a spot.I didn't.
Thank you for bringing it up.
I didn't think I would loveit, but I did.
(17:06):
Was it the Riverwalk? Was itlike the Gaylord but outside, as
we all know?
Well, I think actually theGaylord with fresh air. Christina
has a bit of a something aboutlazy rivers. I don't know what it
is, but. Yeah, but what itwas, though, was it felt. You know,
cohesive together. Like it wasa. It's a small enough town where
(17:29):
you can kind of take over alittle bit and feel like everyone
is kind of in the same bubble.
Yeah, like everyone's walkingoutside the Salt Palace.
I was gonna say somebody. Iheard overheard somebody compare
it to Salt Lake City in termsof the walkability between the restaurants
and the hotels and theconvention center itself. It just
made it easy to get around.
Listen, Austin's a great town.Everyone's. You love Austin. For
(17:51):
whatever reason, for all sortsof reasons.
Excuse me.
For whatever reason you Austin.
No.
So for lots of reasons. I'mtired, man. It's been a long week.
It's.
It's nine o'. Clock. We'reflying home tomorrow. But it's. I,
I honestly leave it here. Thiswas great. The convention center
was great.
The.
I think also to your point onthe traffic, it, it didn't feel like
(18:14):
that the aisles choked likeold or. But it was consistently busy
for course the course.
The.
Over the course of the twodays we spoke to someone. The show
closed at 4 and at 3:50 therewere still retail buyers in booths
talking with folks aboutproduct. It just had a, it just checked
a lot of boxes across theboard and the town, the convention
(18:35):
center and just theorganization of the event. I mean
I don't know. Now we're justlike, well look, we.
Talked to brands big and smalland I'm, you know, going to go back
to the switchback side ofthings here that you know, did, did
get a steady. That did get asteady stream of retailers in. You
know, again it's not, it'sabout. Not about numbers. It's about
showing up, being here. Right.Someone commented that they had particularly.
(19:01):
Canadian retailers here, whichI thought was fantastic. Did not
expect to hear that Canadiangot a.
Got an award tonight from.
That's right. So thank you for coming.
But thank you.
We're being really sincerewith that.
Right.
We understand we're not maybeyour favorite country right now.
Right.
And you made the trip. But no,I think that that's what we have
(19:24):
to do here. We have to buildfor the long haul and so we have
to think beyond just what isthat booking right now and what are
we contributing to the whole.
Well, I guess put everybody onthe spot. Do we have any recommendations
of what are our takeaways aswe look ahead towards future outdoor
trade shows? What would wesay, anybody listening to this who
(19:44):
maybe is in that decisionmaking capacity, what should they
take away from what weobserved at, at the running event?
I mean I think we kind oftalked about it earlier when we started
talking about the awards. It'sthis idea of celebrating the retailer.
I mean it's, you know, there'sso much obvious emphasis on the commerce
of it all. But I think thatcelebration aspect turned out to
(20:05):
be really important and reallycrucial. It also kept people here
to the end. So it felt like acomplete show that way too.
The one thing I will say isbecause Owen did Ask Kent and Christina
this during our live event.Are we gonna. Before we even saw
how great the award ceremonywas, we were, like, said we were
on it. Like, hey, this is agood idea to get people to stick
around. Like you just said,Shantae. And I thought Christina's
(20:25):
answer was pretty humble.She's like, hey, we haven't really
earned that yet withSwitchback Spring specifically. Right.
But I gotta think it's in thecards, right? I mean, maybe not this
year, upcoming year, but inthe future.
Well, it did take him a fewyears to get to this level.
That's why we just got to dothe Rock Fight Awards, right? That's
right.
(20:46):
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(21:08):
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(21:29):
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So do you want to meet withyour new local rep? Well, if you
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Just make sure you tell themthat the Rock Fight sent you lems,
where less equals more. Wetalked. We. We. We ran the live show.
You're gonna. You can go backand listen to it on the feed that
came out probably over by thetime I got to edit it and put it
up there. This is coming outon Monday. We talked about some booth
(22:14):
stuff, but we have some otherbooth thoughts. Yeah. So let's just.
Let's start positively Right.Let's go around the horn like we
Had. There was a lot ofcompliments, and we've already given
a few out on this episode.What's everybody's favorite booth?
Who did a good job here at therunning event? Booth wise.
So before we get into that,the first one of the things, obviously,
that I noticed here was justthe number of running footwear brands
(22:37):
that were here.
What is the running event?
Okay, I understand that. Yes.I haven't had that many glasses of
wine. I do realize that.
What?
So many maximalist shoes. It'sunbelievable. Like, we were talking
at dinner about, like, if youtook somebody from 2012 when Hoka
(22:58):
sort of first arrived at OR,and then brought them into the future
of this show, their mind wouldbe blown. It's like, what the fuck
happened?
Cumulative one.
So much EVA.
So much EVA.
I was going to say like acumulative 1 million millimeters
of stack height. It was insane.
Insane. Okay, so now here'sEva Mine. And like a quick game here.
(23:19):
I've got 10 brands that Iwasn't. I wasn't as. As aware of
as running footwear brands.Okay. And I'm going to throw them
out here, and I just want to.Before this event, did you know that
they existed as runningfootwear brands?
Just like a. Yes.
No. An honor system. I'mlooking at you. True honor system.
Okay.
(23:40):
Yes, I know that one.
Okay.
No, Yes, I know that one.
Okay. 9, 10, 19.
No, not a chance.
No. Okay, that's zeros. Okay. Kipron.
I feel like I've heard thename. I wouldn't have known they
were footwear brand, though.
Okay, all right.
That's just Kip. You know Kip.
Oh, no, no, no.
Good guy.
Okay. Made plus. As a footwearbrand. No, no. Okay, all right. Hollo.
(24:07):
H O L O. As a footwear brand.
Wait, not the socks.
Not this. Not hollow. H O L O.
Nothing here.
No, wait a minute. How do youpronounce that differently than the
socks?
No, the socks have two L's anda W. Yeah, it's like.
That's like a colon or a colon.
Yes.
Only two L. Collins are posers.
(24:28):
Okay.
There are a lot ofunpronounceable brands here.
I just want to say. 361.
Nope.
365 maybe.
Okay. No. Okay. Atom.
Yes.
Okay, we have one. Okay, goodone. Okay. Karhu. K A K A R H U.
Yeah, I know Karhu.
Karhu. Yeah, you got that one.Okay. Rad or rad?
(24:52):
Yes, I was familiar with them,but it was cool to see them. But
we'll talk About. I'm surewe're going to talk about.
Okay. I think it's otim. O tivm.
Is that a medicine?
You just made that up.
What are the side effects of Autofin?
Make that up real fast.
Running real fast. Okay. Andfinally, High racer.
(25:12):
No.
Is that a CBD brand?
Okay. And finally, as arunning brand. Lemz.
As a running brand. No.
No.
We knew they were coming outwith a running shoe. Yes, of course.
Come on.
We love Lamb. Sponsor thepodcast Lems. Come on.
I was wearing their primal Zenyesterday. They didn't pay me to
(25:35):
say that either.
All right, let's talk aboutbooze. We're just going to go around
the horn. Do you want me togo? Shantay, you want to go first?
All right, a bit. Dave's goingto call me Basic, but he's. And he's
probably not wrong. But theNordaboo booth, because. And there's
a reason why you would call meBasic for that, because so many reasons.
Yeah, but it was. Nord isreally. We love Nord. We've talked
(25:59):
about Nord on the podcast. I'ma fan of their shoes. They have basically
five styles. Right. They havevery few shoes in the range. They
came with a. Was it 10 by 20?10 by 30.
10 by 30.
10 by 30. Very. Again, basicin black booth with the shoes sort
of hanging merchandise.
I would call it minimalist.
There you go. Right. I think.I think Dave was. Dave's more intimating
(26:20):
that I was sucked in by thesort of the iPhone, Steve Jobs sort
of vibe of it all. And I was.
I just.
I'm here for it.
I thought that was the UFOS booth.
No, that was the PowerPoint booth.
It was more Microsoft.
But the. I just.
It.
It worked. And actually theyeven said, like, the idea that when
it gets Busy as a 10 by 30,they can kind of spill out into the
(26:41):
aisle. It gives you.
It just.
I don't know. There was a.There was a great vibe. I like the
way it looked. It matched thebrand, which is very clean, and I
thought they did a great job.Also, I got to meet Lance Armstrong
right in front of their booth,which was pretty cool. So, you know,
say what you want about LanceArmstrong. I thought it was cool
to meet Lance Armstrong, butwhat do you got, Shantay?
My favorite runner, LanceArmstrong. I. I'm gonna say. So I
(27:04):
will admit here on the podcastthat I was a satisfy hater. I didn't
really get it. I wasunsatisfied. But maybe I was just
pre. Pre satisfied. Okay.Maybe it was that because I got there
before these guys who allapparently forgot about our app.
I'm furiously texting them,but I started getting the rundown
and it's one of those enclosedbooths where, you know, it's like
(27:24):
Secret Service guarding thedoorway. But I sat there and I got
the rundown on why it was thatway. And they were just like, listen,
we want people to understandit. People implied people like me
who don't. And we want them tounderstand the full story and see
it. We want to be able toguide them through this experience.
And I will say after, afterwalking through all of it, I was
like, okay, I'm not going tobuy any of this because it's all
(27:47):
really expensive and I justrun in cotton T shirts. But, but
I. To wear all of it. The armchaps, the, the lightweight jorts,
the, you know, band T shirtwith the moth. Moth holes in it.
That's not what the tech. Thestrategically placed moth holes.
I honestly, I came away beinginto it.
(28:07):
Yeah. I think you know whatyou're getting at. Even to paint
the picture, we're talkingabout a. What was it, a 20 by 20
or 30 by 30 metal cube, 20ft high.
Right.
I mean, it was a Borg. And youentered into it through that door,
which gave that exclusive. Andit really. The way they presented
products. Right, right, right.I love that. It really did give you
(28:32):
a sense that you were steppinginto like a Soho boutique and the
way they presented their,their product. And so it was really
more of fashion, performancefashion as a true blend. It was not
activewear. Okay. That triesto be fashionable. It was an absolute
blend. And that's their brandfor sure. But the presentation of
(28:52):
it really upped, I would say,the impact of their position.
Yeah. And I thought it wasinteresting too. Cause I kind of
joked, I'm like, man, thisbooth is like the Rick Owens of the
running world. And he gotreally. The guy from Satisfy was
like, well, no, we don't wantpeople to see us that way. He's like,
we actually know a lot ofpeople who are into the aesthetic,
but they don't buy theclothes. But they are inspired to
go out there and wear whatthey want instead of what they think
(29:14):
they're supposed to bewearing. And I actually really like
that that the one thing.
And it was, it wasn't a.Clearly, a lot of these brands were
still very feature and benefitheavy and tech stuff. But it did
seem, I. I noticed think afterwe, as we left Satisfy that there
were, there were plenty ofbooze where A brand story and product
story were the primary thing.And you know, then, great, we have
(29:35):
technical specs and thingsafterwards versus the run. And outdoor
industries are usually beenvery like, oh, well, this moves moisture
and protects you frommoisture, and here's how it benefits
you. And that's. We lead withthe features and benefits and the
tech stuff. And this I found alot of great brand and product stories
leading the charge, which Ifound. Something that we talk about
a lot is like, that's whatreally people care about the most.
They expect this stuff to work.
(29:57):
Absolutely. So for me, myfavorite was actually the Keen booth.
That was a good one. Anotherbooth that really talked to the brand
that was on brand. If youwould remove the logos, you'd say,
oh, that's the Keen booth. AndI think we mentioned on the pod that
it had a van growing in it,which I think is great. If you can
have a booth that grows a vanevery time, you're probably making
(30:17):
money.
It's been a healthy harvestseason for booth fans, Dave. I'm
sure we'll talk about it.
But actually, my favorite partwas because this was mainly to introduce
their new trail running line.My favorite part was they showed
all eight prototypes worn inby all of the running that was done
in them. And just theprogression of how they came to the
shoe that they had today,which I thought was really a nice
(30:38):
way to do it.
Look, keen won me over, right?I think we made it. I think they're
part of our lightning round.When they introduced their shoe and
we were kind of like, oh, ofcourse now they have a trail running
shoe too. Which, I mean,honestly, I don't feel that bad about
saying, because, like, ofcourse they would. Why wouldn't they?
They're keen. They're a bigfootwear brand. They're known for
their sandals and boots. Whywould they not also offer a trail
running shoe? But we got tomeet with their team. They also,
(30:59):
they just brought on JeffBrowning and Chrissy Mail. Like legendary
ultra runners, they have adedicated group of product folks
working on the trail runningline. And they're like, no, we're
going for it. We're makingreally good trail running shoes.
We're bringing in well knownultra athletes to run in our shoes.
And I, you know, I'm like,wow, okay, good for you guys, man.
You're not messing around.You're not just like checking the
(31:20):
box and saying, look, look atour maximalist running shoe. Trail
running shoe. We have one too.So I thought it was an interesting
story.
Look, there were a Lot ofinteresting things. I think we're
at a cool time in terms ofwhere technology's taking us and
what we're able to build intothese structures. We don't require
the huge, massive builds maybefor the impact that we used to. So
you're getting more bang foryour buck from the space. Like the
(31:42):
tickers that we saw in termsof the space. So I think that's like
the on they went. You know,their booth was basic from a build
perspective. Another closedBorg, but it was their software,
it was their screens. Right.
I almost thought there'snothing special here.
Full minority port, right?Yeah, right. Like, please set the
shoe up on the screen. And itunlocks a whole, you know, the folders
(32:05):
and discussion about it. It'sfantastic. I just, I think that kind
of stuff is, is really whatbrings us into the consumer world
here from a trade perspective.The product element table, I think
is another thing that you sawover and over where they take the
product, take the shoe,explode it out. So you can see the
build of the product. And youknow, the prototype wall Keen wasn't
(32:27):
the only one that did that.Other brands, let me see the iterations
and the markings on the shoeand the kind of the breakdown as
they're building to it, reallyplaying the technology story. So
I think you saw that all overthe place. So I thought that was
great. And then you know,Birkenstock, which typically has
a nice feeling booth there,that's the other end of that. We
(32:47):
go from an explosion.
It's okay when you say a brandand all of your co hosts start laughing.
Well, we go from kind ofproduct component explosion to just
an explosion inside thatbooth. It really gave you the vibes
of your local shoe repair shopthat's been there for 50 years. It
was, I don't know, it was odd.And you know, Colin, you pointed
this out too. The sign, theceiling sign, which we all use to
(33:09):
direct us to the booth, wasbigger than the booth itself.
I think I can see it fromwhere we're sitting.
That's right, that's right. Sothose are just some little things
like that. But I think for thebooth that stood out to me the most
amongst all these great buildsand great brands, was the smallest
one that we did to comeacross. Right. And it's a 10 by 10
(33:29):
from a brand called Tantrum.And they make. What is it? Running
vests?
Yeah, like hydration vests.
That's running, but that's notthe story so much. And even from
the founders kind ofdescription of this they know that
they need to tell a greaterstory. This 10 by 10 was dressed
up like a bodega. And when Isay like a bodega, you had to double
(33:52):
take it first to see what thehell is that doing here. And they
took.
It looked like a bodega.
That's right. They had theproduct in a cooler display that
you'd think you'd buy in beerall the way with the flickering broken
light in it. Every piece inthere was rebranded and relabeled.
Windex for sale. Nope. Tantrumbrand. What is that? Black beans?
(34:16):
That's right. Matchbooks andstickers. If you looked at the posters
on the wall, the lottery.That's right side was altered a bit.
And so it was just such agreat job and attention to detail.
The 10 by 10. That's right.And there was so much to look. You
could stand there for 15minutes just taking in all of that.
(34:36):
And it really did set up thekind of. So why of all this? And
then they would engage you,you know, the. The floor staff would
engage you about the productand what they're doing.
And that's the thing. When youhave. They had one vest to show.
And when you have one product,it's either going to sit there and
look sad. Clif bar, or you'regoing to be able to tell a story
that got all of us to stop.Like how, you know, you stop because
(34:57):
you're like, what is going onhere? And then that drew me in a
tiny booth.
But it also just shows youthat a great booth doesn't take $100,000.
That booth probably costs, Idon't know, $5,000. But it just takes
creativity and just thinkingoutside the box and having a vision
(35:17):
for something that isn't just,oh, here's the product.
It's the vision and thewillingness to take a concept all
the way through. So often westop with the front or maybe a good
headline, right? Or just thecolor. No, no. There's so much more
that you can add to that thatcreates a depth of story.
The. The two. And we can talkif we want to talk about who they
(35:39):
were. But our two leastfavorite booths, the one of the issues
with them were they were 10 by20s and they were jammed full of
rolling rack apparel. And itwas just. You couldn't. It was. It
was. You couldn't see past it.It looked like you were like at a
discount store. And so I wouldsay to them, hey, pick your hero
product. You don't need tobring your whole range. Right? What's
your hero product that isgoing to speak to the audience at
(36:01):
the event where it's. We knowit's runners like. And so even if
Tantrum had a larger range oflike, well, only have a 10 by 10.
Great, let's sell the best.
I find it amazing in 2025,we're still having that discussion
of don't jam everything in.Show your hero product. Get people
engaged and intrigued. Theywill find you. They will call you
back.
Yes.
Like, they will want to seethe rest of your line.
(36:22):
Right. Are you really in yourfive minute meeting? Like, wait,
hold on. I have 60 moreproducts we have to get through.
All right, this is the one youwant. We have other stuff too, if
you want to see.
I have six styles of taupethat you haven't seen yet.
And it just, I just, you know,not that it was hands down the best
booth we saw at the Tantrumbooth for all the reasons we said.
(36:42):
I think the four of us agreein that. And honestly, the only bummer
is we didn't see it before ourlive event. So we could have shouted
them out at the live event.
Yeah, I agree. I agree though.And I still do want to like, just
even though we mentioned it inthe show, I. Brooks has the biggest
booth on the floor. They'rekind of showing their weight, which
again is fun for that fromespecially this show. But their fun
(37:04):
house concept to support theirflex your freedom idea. Excellent.
Just well executed well.
And what we did find out afterthe fact was actually they're pivoting.
They're tired of being abillion dollar footwear brand and
they're going to go intobusiness with Pierre at Halloween.
And this was just their firststep into that new direction. Oh,
yes.
So I'm seeing then the, thelicensing co op with Halloween town.
(37:28):
Well, they want to makecostumes with good traction. That'll
be nice and good tread. So.
I grew up in Milwaukee, you know.
All right, so last thing we'regoing to do is go through our predictions
and be accountable to itbefore we do that. Our consigliere,
right. He was roaming thehalls of the show.
Right.
He had his ears open.
(37:48):
You know, he talks to a lot of people.
He talks to of a lot. Theydon't even know who they're talking
to sometimes. And then hereports back. All right, so what,
Owen, what did you hear at the show?
So, a couple of things. Sofirst of all, we heard that Scott.
Scott sports. Really? No, moreas a mountain biker. Hangs out with
Adam and Kip apparently so.But they had nine People at the show,
(38:13):
they weren't exhibiting manydesigners, et cetera. So the inference,
and again, this is all rumors,rumor, this is all rumor, is that
they are, and they do havesome RUN product today, but that
they're going to get big intorun in the US Market.
I don't mean they've been inrun. They definitely have had shoes,
they've had some part of therange. I mean, I think they're primarily
known for their mountainbiking or cycling, at least apparel
(38:36):
and bikes, whatever. So I'mcurious what that will mean.
But clearly it's an interest,though. Yeah.
Okay.
Now on the topic of peopleshowing up and interest in running,
nobody from rei. Nope.
No buyers.
No buyers confirm.
Do we know that?
Well, this is talking topeople in the switchback section
who you think they would atleast, you know, stop by.
(38:58):
And say, hi, ChristinaHenderson, please confirm.
Exactly. And so, and we'veheard that Run is one of the four
pillars. And for I was in an REI.
Last week and the footwearwall, half of it was run.
So you would think that Runwould be here. And from what we're
hearing, it's a budget issue.But it's interesting nonetheless.
(39:19):
Another interesting fact wasPatagonia. So I've been a little
bit, I would say maybecritical of Patagonia in the last.
Maybe even on this podcast,maybe even.
On this podcast, but for lackof newness. And apparently I'm not
the first person to mentionthat because in talking to some folks
there, they've actually beenheads down on that. That issue and
(39:43):
they have just a shit ton ofstuff coming next year, like really
new stuff, not just new colorsof better sweaters.
Would love to see it.
100%.
It's been a minute.
And finally, and last but notleast, Prana, who we called out on
the prior show.
Let's talk about why we calledthem out.
Okay, let's.
So that's who I was referringto earlier in the booth that maybe
(40:05):
was struggling.
Welcome to a very specialedition of. Of let's Talk about Prana.
Let's talk about Prana.
Colin, I think, I think youhave something to say about. Was
it a tablecloth?
So Prada was one of my threebrands that I said might show up
trying a little too hard to bea run brand, which actually, of the
three brands I named, they arethe winner. They did. They had a
(40:25):
running mannequin in their booth.
They did. In fairness, yes.The only Rankin in their booth.
The problem is a 10 by 20, I believe.
Yes, 10 by 10. I think it was10 by 10, 10 again.
Two rolling racks packed tothe gills with product. A table with
a tablecloth. And this is whatShantae's referring to. As a former
tech rep, I was quite hurt tosee the logo all askew. The logo,
(40:48):
like Attic, you know, cattywampus to like, what's supposed to
be. It's just. It was. It wasall of us. We literally were like,
hey, Prana, blink twice if youneed help. It was like we. At that
point, it was just. It was bad.
It was. But. But what we heardwas that actually what we're seeing
is the last vestige of the oldPrana before the new Prana, like
(41:11):
a butterfly coming out of thechrysalis, will emerge.
I think producer Dave'squestion during the live event was,
you know you're owned byColumbia, right?
And apparently they do becausenew and exciting things are coming
down the path now.
That being said, even if youknow that's coming, there is no reason
(41:32):
to show what two full rollingracks in a shitty tablecloth.
Couldn't agree with you.
Come up with three products inyour little booth. Put it up. Were
Prana. They even sponsored ayoga session or something like that.
They were involved in theshow. So anyway, yeah, do better
Prana. But. But we're alsoexcited to see what you got.
Absolutely.
Is that the end of rumor corner?
Well, I. I did hear one kindof rumor that there's a fault developing
(41:56):
between sea to summit andmount to coast.
So a tectonic shift that's possibly.
Right.
A rumble.
All right, last thing. We allmade predictions. We now need to
be accountable to ourpredictions. Who's going first?
I'll go first.
Okay.
(42:17):
What was my prediction?
I don't remember.
Your host, man.
You're the host.
You didn't even write it inthe last doc.
My prediction was that in thisjoined iteration of Switchback and
Tre and after Switchback ishacked, its solo appearance, that
an outdoor brand would step upand bring it.
(42:39):
Bring it. That's right.
Like the running brands do attheir side. And. And I do want to
include Merrill or excludeMerrill in that. They. They do bring
it. They brought it before.
They're really good at making booths.
They.
They really. They really are.Right. And they're really good at
telling you how good they areat making booths. So my prediction
is that someone else was goingto bring it and I was wrong. No one.
(43:03):
No one brought.
Was a bit sad trombone on the.On the. Just the innovative booth.
Like there was some. There wasfine stuff, but. And there Was but
I mean there was nothing thatyou're like, whoa, like look at that.
Like you know, the whatever. Iguess Berg house might have been
the closest but even then theywent just very kind of simple. What
do you got Owen? What was your prediction?
(43:24):
So my prediction was actuallythat. Switchback 2026 would indeed
try to replicate the amazingawards show that we just saw. And
we asked the question on thelast show at the live show and as
you mentioned, Christina saidknow that they probably haven't earned
it yet, which I think is avery. Reasonable and honest answer
(43:47):
quite frankly. So hopefullymaybe 2027 and actually having witnessed
it, I can see her point quite frankly.
If you're trying to live up tothis, like yeah, let it build up,
work up to that.
Officially now we're over two.
Yeah. Right Shantay.
All right, I'm going to, I'mgoing to make us one for two. I,
My prediction was basicallythat there are going to be a ton
(44:09):
of conversations and a ton ofproduct out there telling the story
of trail running. And I thinkeven though I thought it maybe would
be even more than it was, itwas pretty substantial. I felt seen
okay as a trail runner. Butyeah, I think we saw, we saw people
bringing trail run shoes forthe, the first time. We saw some,
you know, completely trail runbrands out there and I feel like
(44:32):
there was a lot of love givento trail run. So I feel successful
in this unlike some other people.
Yeah. And, and I think youspecifically though we saw brands
who aren't necessarily fullytrail run lean into it. Keen is one
example. Nike had a whole ACGthing. Like it was half their booth
was acg, Veja Vesa, whateverthey came with with just a trail
(44:55):
or anything and they've got amuch wider line. So I think we give
Shantae full marks.
I think.
Yes. I think you know, I meanLEMS also brought their first. They
debuted a running shoe and Ithink even though it's not a trail
running shoe, they did bringsome ivy, some like fake ivy hanging
to the booth. So it's kind oflike being on the trail.
Well, it could go with ACG'ssynthetic rocks.
(45:16):
Right?
You could put those together.
No, Adidas had the.
Yeah, yeah, the Adidassynthetic rocks were. I think they
took synthetic rocks to a newGerman level.
Obviously were some rejectsfrom Land of the Lost from like the
1970s, you.
Know, like they were rigid andhad no humor.
(45:37):
My predictions were one, likeI mentioned earlier was the an outdoor
brand would try be a littletoo try hard and and show up and
trying to be a running brandand not pull it all off and mentioned
Prana wins that one. So I'llget a quarter point, maybe half a
point for that one.
Is a single mannequin reallyit was a running man.
It was trying to be a running.It was literally like here are rolling
racks and here's our running man.
(45:58):
Wait a minute. Are you surethat wasn't the only one left at
the rental agency? You linethat's all we've got. It's got this
one running. It's a goodthing. It's a running track.
If you say no then I'll, I'llaccept that.
Right, right.
I said that Berghaus also and,and and we, we spoke with Shane who
also who heard the box pod andhe said actually you made a mistake
because across the hall fromthem was steel who definitely did
(46:19):
this and they had some runningmannequins while still having just
their steel stuff. So I wasclose in proximity to that one and
then see the summit who alsoheard the pod and was like they were
bummed that they heard it latebecause they said they would have
absolutely built a runner outof like neck pillows which is just.
Just to troll me which wouldhave been amazing. No, they showed
(46:41):
up with just their range andwe're happy to do so.
I think actually you shouldget the point regardless because
I thought you set too high abar by not only saying the thing
but saying which specific towho it would be. So personally I
think mission accomplished.
It definitely happened.
It happened.
Right, right, right. And myother prediction was the broader
one of this will be the lastswitchback at Tre. I feel pretty
(47:03):
good about this. We won't knowfor a while but I feel that switchback
as part of the name of theshow is. It's not necessary at this
point. I think it will go. Ithink switchback should turn into
or maybe potentially will gointo being kind of like Venture out
used to be an outdoor retailerwhere it's a section of the floor.
Here's the outdoor section atthe running event but the show is
(47:24):
just the running event and Ithink that's what's going to happen.
Or does trail running continueto grow unabated where it just takes
over every available squareinch that isn't just road run and
so it will push out all of theother native outdoor brands.
What you're saying is weshouldn't be afraid of AI but we
should be afraid of trailrunning. TR I remember the day trail
(47:46):
running got into thegovernment systems.
It's all tr.
I just hope somebody brings abidet next year, you know, it will
probably be you.
All right, guys, that's theshow for today. Thanks for going
on our running event Journeywith us, the Rock Fights of production.
Don't forget Switchback.
I just said Switchbacks overuntil New Orleans, then it's back.
(48:09):
Switchbacks back, baby.Switchback Spring the Rock Fights
a production of Rock Fight LLCFor Shantay Salibare, Owen Comerford
and our producer, producerDave. Thanks going out to Sarah Gensert.
I am Colin True. Thank you forlistening. And here he is. Like always
to take us out with the RockFight Fight song, it's Chris da Makes.
We'll see you next time, Rock fighters.
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rockfight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock
(48:35):
flight. Welcome to the rockfight where we speak our truth Slay
sacred cows and sometimesagree to disagree. We talk about
human powered outdooractivities and big bites about topics
that we find interesting likepop culture music, the latest movie
(48:57):
reviews, ideas that aim forthe head. This is where we speak
our truth. This is where wespeak our truth. Rock fight. Rock
fight. Rock flight. Welcome tothe Rock flight. Rock fight. Rock
five. Welcome to the Rockflight. Rock flight. Rock flight.
(49:17):
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rockfight. Welcome to the Rock fight.
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock. Fight.
You're listening to Rock FightRadio. Next up on Rock Fight Radio,
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Welcome to the Rock Fight,where we speak our truth, slay sacred
cows, and sometimes agree todisagree. This is an outdoor podcast
that aims for the head. I'mColin True and today we are recapping
the running event andSwitchback 2025. I'm here with Shante
Salibair, Owen Coverford, andproducer Dave. We are still in San
Antonio, Texas. We're at therunning event at the Henry B. Gonzalez
(02:04):
Convention center where we'vebeen all week. Guys were recording
this literally after the endof the running event Retailer Awards,
which was pretty awesome. Imean, just to start there, pretty
amazing event.
It really was. I mean. It'Sfunny because we usually, as you
know, leave before the end ofpretty much every trade show, but
(02:25):
they said, no, you gotta stayand check this thing out. And I'm
so glad that we did.
Stay for the cupcakes.
Oh, yeah, I had two. No, itwas really. There was something I
did. I'm not gonna lie. Iteared up at one or two points this
evening and I would never havein a million years have expected
that at a trade show. Award show.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I had middling expectations.Not good or bad. I'm like, they were
(02:47):
very. The folks at the runningevent who wanted us to come. Come
to the show and cover theshow. We did our live event yesterday
and it was like, okay, well,this will be cool. I'm sure it'll
be cool, but I'M like, youknow, mostly I was thinking, I think
we said in our preview pod,like, is this more of a mechanism
to get people to stick around?And this was so much more than that.
(03:07):
You could see why they reallywanted us to stay and see this.
Yeah.
But also, by the way, as amechanism to get people to stick
around, it was fucking genius.
Effective.
Right. Because so first ofall, they have, I think it was like
60 plus stores that get sortof like these top, top running store
plaques or awards. Right. Sobasically what you're saying is,
(03:29):
hey, and they have to be hereon the last night to pick it up.
So they're going to stickaround regardless. So you're going
to get the best retailers toyour show for both days to stick
around to get their plaque andto be honored that way. And then
there's the top five that theyknow that they're in the running
for the top retailer. And theother great thing is that then the
brands actually are givingawards to, to retailers as well.
(03:53):
So it's all about theretailer, all about them and the
best of the best. And justrecognizing that.
Well, I think even Owen, whenyou and I walked, we were going up
the escalator. We're like, oh,this is like running prom. You know,
running a retail prom. It wassuch that energy was so high. People
came in coordinating outfits.Like, it was really special.
I honestly, like, I have likea shacket and a T shirt on right
(04:14):
now and I was getting warm inthe shacket and then all of a sudden
I got really self consciouslooking at the room like, is anyone
else just wearing a T shirt atbasically an outdoor running event?
Like, no, I was like the onlyone in the room, like as a slob wearing
my T shirt and a hat.
So yeah, yeah, I think thelevel, genuine level of emotion was
just palpable. It was really,I was not expecting that. And there
(04:37):
were some heartfelt speechesand the support in the room for people
was just incredible. I mean itreally just, you know, it's a big
country, there's a lot ofstores and there's a long running
relationships here that youcould tell there was real support
for people when they would winan award.
The emotions felt authenticand real. The emotion from the brands
(04:58):
presenting the awardsdefinitely did as well.
And these stores showed up.One of the stores recognized by one
of the brands on in this casewas actually Charm City Run. When
they went up on stage, theyhad 17 people here from a single
run store.
Meanwhile, the store's beinglooted and like.
You know, that's what Ithought. Yeah.
(05:20):
Who's running the shop?
Hey, it's only the first weekof December.
They have plenty of time tomake up the holiday business. Business.
Well, listen, we'll get backto the awards in a second like Owen
said, but let's talk about theevent. And this is, and it's a good
segue into it from the awardsbecause the awards I think kind of
clarified a lot of things forall of us. Right. So first of all,
really positive week. I'lljust kick things off and want to
(05:42):
say my, my initial impressionhere and I think what this event
did for me this week and I'vebeen to the running event before,
but it really was seeing theawards, I think that helped sort
of clarify this. It's theissue that we run into in the outdoor
industry when it comes totrade shows. And we talk about, I
mean, what on a six weekcadence here on the rock, right?
It's a regular topic. We'realways talking about it. We're talking
to retailers about it. We talkto brands about it.
(06:03):
That and trail running.
That and trail running. Wait,we've said trail running. We've,
we're good now, right?
Check.
Yeah, good box checked. Butwhat we saw here at the running event
and exemplified primarily inthe, at the end of the night, here
at this, at the, at the awardsis a group of people in an industry
that truly understands itspurpose and understands its why.
These folks are all about therun retailer. This is a celebration
(06:27):
of the running retailer andthe foundation and it's the foundation
on which the space and thenthe trade show is built upon. And
I think that's somethingthat's seriously lacking in the outdoor
industry. I think we're soconcerned about what should the national
event be. We need the nationalevent, though we all don't often
stop and say, well, why do weneed it? What is it that we're doing?
And here like all week long, Isaid to one of you guys earlier,
(06:49):
I never heard one conversationabout like, hey, is this a good event?
Should we be doing this? Isthis good? Everybody was like bought
in the entire time.
But there is actually an eventin the after industry that does that,
that is retailer centric, thatis vibrant, that nobody's questioning
whether they should be thereor not. And that's goa, Right? Right.
And now that takes retailercentricity maybe to the nth level
(07:10):
with all of the rod is whatthis is. Right. And so I'm not suggesting
that that.
Should be and kudos to thatevent because we've always said that
event is different because of that.
Right. But it does show youthough that when you understand,
you know, the retailer, onestep away from the consumer is kind
of the front line that we needto recognize here, that creates the
(07:31):
energy that brings theretailers together and then the brands
together. And that is the underpinning.
I also feel like there'ssomething special in run and I said
this to you guys earlier, thatthere is. There is such a direct
tie to community when it comesto run. And we talked about. Yeah,
of course you have, you havegroup runs. That's just a common
thing. You have other kinds ofevents. And I've. Like back when
we had specialty retail in L.A, we had adventure 16, I'd say they
(07:55):
did a lot of events, but theywere in store events. And I think
there is a difference. Whenyou get out in the community and
you're doing things, you'redoing the thing that you're selling
the things for and you see thedirect, the direct connections here.
And I think there is, there'sthat you see the through line from
the brand to the retailer tothe consumer all in one line and
it feels really genuine. Andthere's something about the retailers
(08:16):
here too, feeling seen. Like,I got that sense, especially tonight.
I think that's a great pointand I think it's where this show
differs from the GOA in asense, both being retailer centric,
you know, here to do businessand see lines. But it does achieve
something that creates thisextra energy. Right. And it just.
I think that's what we're alllooking for and it's really that
(08:37):
spark is here. And you know,again, I think attaching switchback
to it is the right idea,whether that's going to stay rather
those audiences converge ornot. But we're certainly learning
in a sense how we can behaveagain, you know.
No, and we were saying just aslike on the Elvis escalator ride
down here like you made. Yeah,it was a long ride. All right. But
(09:01):
you made the point about thecommunity and you're right. And that's
the one thing I thought oftoo. And we mentioned we should go
check out Sea Otter. I want tosee kind of the cycling vibe and
it is simpler when there's.We're talking about one activity
or, you know, trail runningand running. Right. Trail running
is its own thing. Second mention.
That's though how they'retrying to create complexity. See
how complex we are. A trailand pavement, no gravel.
(09:24):
I didn't see any gravel.
I don't see any Gravel. Butno, but you know, when you're talking
about the complexity of anoutdoor shop, I mean, the climbing
community, the paddlingcommunity, the backpacker community,
all so distinct and so deep.How do you create threads of connection
between those?
But we know that the goodoutdoor specialty dealers, they still
are involved in theircommunities. We had a comment from
(09:46):
a retailer at Goa who's like,if you're not doing events in your
community, get ready to filefor bankruptcy because you're going
to lo lose. Right? So we knowthe good ones are doing it.
Absolutely. I mean, if youlook at it, pretty much every run
store has some kind ofcommunity run. I mean, you, you're,
you'd be crazy if you don't. Idon't think that's necessarily the
case with every especiallyoutdoor store.
Sure.
The good ones, you wouldthink. And we, well, we've talked
(10:07):
about it. How many times wetalked about, like you're mentioning
in Detroit, like, we set uplike a, the frozen waterfall that
people are ice climbing on andall these things. And like the ones
who get it and they do it. Soit exists. But isn't that. But then
when we talk about thenational event and the trade show
scene, it comes back to like,well, we get the brand retailers
together so they can dobusiness. And it's like, well, hold
on. Actually, why don't wecelebrate the community of the outdoors
(10:31):
and how we actually, how thesefolks actually support and lift each
other up. And that waseverything tonight was centered around
improving people's livesthrough going running.
Right? But I mean, what I hearthough, from some outdoor stores
is, well, that's easy, right?Anybody can run. You put on a pair
of shoes, you start outsidethe store. You know, the trail head
is, you know, 10 miles awayfrom my store. Yada, yada, yada,
yada. Excuses. If you're in asnowy climate, take people snowshoeing
(10:58):
in the park. Just theexperience of snowshoeing for the
first time is amazing. And itdoesn't have to be out in the wilds
hiking, you can do urbanhiking. It doesn't have to be at
a trailhead. It's about thecommunity aspect of just people getting
out there and doing this thing together.
Right? And it's like, link upwith community organizations. We
saw that a lot tonight in theawards where they're like, oh, this
(11:18):
run shop is linked up to thiscommunity organization. And then
this brand is supporting allof it. And I think for outdoor, it
shouldn't be that hard.There's so many, like, I live in
la and we have so many amazingoutdoor related organizations. And
I'm just thinking now, like,why. Yeah, why aren't, I mean, we
don't have specialty retailanymore, but if we did that, the
smart thing would be like, allright, let's link all of these things
(11:40):
together and let's use theresources we have here. What is special
about la? We've got Griffithpark, we've got the Arroyo, we've
got all these differentthings. Yeah. It just makes complete
sense to me and I don't thinkthis is so far beyond the pale that
that more outdoor specialtycould be doing this.
Well, no, and that's kind ofwhat I mean, Right? I mean, and not
just to pick on them, butthey're, they're, they're looking
to rebuild. Right. WhatOutdoor Retailer is doing and the
(12:01):
messaging so far has beenlike, hey, we're going to bring these
brands in, we're going tobring the, trying to get these retailers
in. And I wonder if like, hey,the message should be like, what's
the, what's, what is thecommunity aspect that we're bringing
together that just feels likewhat is actually missing? And that's
why even we go to these showsand we're like, oh, is this a good
show? Is it a good show foryou? Why are we here? And I just,
(12:22):
the thing that's impressed menot to be a broken record was like,
that was just answered here,like why this show exists. No one's
questioning it, right?
Nobody. And it's the firstweek of December. Right.
And they're still showing upthat to me, right. The, all the talk
about June. Right. And notthat any of the retailers who have
concerns about going to a showin June. I understand the concerns
you have, but if the show hasvalue, you will go in June. If that's
(12:46):
when the show is. Because itis December and that room was packed
full of retailers. BlackFriday was less than a week ago and
here they are and some of themwith a lot of people from their store.
I'm worried about some ofthese stores. Who is, who is, who
is opening these stores.
It's all E commerce right now.It's teenagers. You know, I also
(13:07):
think something, you know,Colin and Dave, you guys have been
to the running event beforeand you said, and other people have
talked about it since I'vebeen here, the energy for this show
has never waned and it's justbeen consistent year after year after
year. And I understand whynow. Whereas I think that's one of
the big things we've Talkedabout outdoor is like, oh, why isn't
anybody going to the show? Andwe're, oh, this felt really flat
(13:29):
and the floor was dead. Andyou don't. This has not happened
with Tre.
Well, I think there's stillkind of a show aspect here too. The
energy comes from the boothsand the brands itself. How many booths
did we see in the switchbacksection that were essentially a.
A drape and a rolling rack?
Oh, we have some that's coming up.
(13:50):
Later in the park, but justone after the other. And look, you
can still make thatpresentable and nice and there still
can be a brand story, but ifyou see too many in a row, it's going
to start to feel the same wayand kind of dampen the enthusiasm.
Well, so I think part of theissue is that trade shows are paid
(14:10):
for by the brands, right? Soas a trade show organizer, you're
like, well, we've got to makethe brands happy. They're the ones
paying the bills, they're theones who are doing the sponsorships,
they're the ones who areshelling out the cash, doing all
the fancy booths, etc. Sothey're the customer. Right. But
ultimately if the customer ofthe customer is your customer. Right,
(14:31):
and that is the retailer. Andso I think that is the missing piece.
Yeah, Dave, you make a goodpoint on the switchback side and
not to get into kind of stepon what we're going to talk about
in the booths in a second, butlike just Berghaus we saw today and
we chatted with Shane overthere and they had a very simple
setup that was colorful. Itdrew people in. It was in the switchback
side and they came with one ofmy predictions. They might be one
of the ones who tried too hardvia Try hard on the run. They didn't.
(14:54):
They had their very muchoutdoor centric thing and I'm like,
how's it going? He's like,it's going great. Talk to a lot of
run buyers who are interestedin our stuff. And honestly, I'm mostly
here because I want people tosee Berghaus and this is a floor
where there's a lot ofinfluential people. Whether it's
run, whether it's outdoor, weneed to show up because we're trying
to win in the long haul and weknow that eventually we're going
(15:15):
to be butting up against thePatagonias and the north faces and
the outdoor researchers, allthe entrenched, you know, outdoor
brands. And so he had a veryclear idea of, like, why they were
here. Versus to your point,Dave, some other folks who just like,
well, I guess we'll go tothis. Role in. And we're an outdoor
brand.
And to that point, it was verysimple about red wall, red floor
(15:37):
at Berghaus with. Yeah. Withproduct presented across. It stood
out.
Yeah.
It was so simple, but it stillhad energy to it.
Are you telling me that theCliff booth, which was just a guy
and a computer and a coupleshot blocks packets, was not engaging
for you, Dave? It was simple.
Well, like I said before, itlooks like a soggy Cliff bar. And
that's not. Guys, no one wants that.
They care very much aboutsustainability to the point where
(15:59):
they didn't even build.
A booth because you got toship a booth. I mean, there's a lot
of saved.
So many emissions. Think about it.
And that was why Patagonia wasthe same way.
Dude, you just got back ontheir good side after your awesome
LinkedIn post.
Right.
Owen's had a little wine. Iwas just gonna say, you know.
(16:20):
You could really use some ofthat stale inventory at Cliff and
build a pretty cool booth.
I've had some stale Clif bars.I know what that's like, right.
Actually intact.
Right. Little gingerbreadthing going on. It's December.
Well, wait, are we donelavishing praise on the running event
and saying what we could learnfrom it? Is it time to move into
booths?
I think the overall event,though, I thought was. Looking at
(16:46):
old or it was that energy.Maybe not. I mean, the aisles weren't
quite as packed. You couldactually walk in the aisles, but
it was. There were big booths.There were little booths. It had
that feel of. Of commonality.And then the other thing, actually,
I liked San Antonio as a spot.I didn't.
Thank you for bringing it up.
I didn't think I would loveit, but I did.
(17:06):
Was it the Riverwalk? Was itlike the Gaylord but outside, as
we all know?
Well, I think actually theGaylord with fresh air. Christina
has a bit of a something aboutlazy rivers. I don't know what it
is, but. Yeah, but what itwas, though, was it felt. You know,
cohesive together. Like it wasa. It's a small enough town where
(17:29):
you can kind of take over alittle bit and feel like everyone
is kind of in the same bubble.
Yeah, like everyone's walkingoutside the Salt Palace.
I was gonna say somebody. Iheard overheard somebody compare
it to Salt Lake City in termsof the walkability between the restaurants
and the hotels and theconvention center itself. It just
made it easy to get around.
Listen, Austin's a great town.Everyone's. You love Austin. For
(17:51):
whatever reason, for all sortsof reasons.
Excuse me.
For whatever reason you Austin.
No.
So for lots of reasons. I'mtired, man. It's been a long week.
It's.
It's nine o'. Clock. We'reflying home tomorrow. But it's. I,
I honestly leave it here. Thiswas great. The convention center
was great.
The.
I think also to your point onthe traffic, it, it didn't feel like
(18:14):
that the aisles choked likeold or. But it was consistently busy
for course the course.
The.
Over the course of the twodays we spoke to someone. The show
closed at 4 and at 3:50 therewere still retail buyers in booths
talking with folks aboutproduct. It just had a, it just checked
a lot of boxes across theboard and the town, the convention
(18:35):
center and just theorganization of the event. I mean
I don't know. Now we're justlike, well look, we.
Talked to brands big and smalland I'm, you know, going to go back
to the switchback side ofthings here that you know, did, did
get a steady. That did get asteady stream of retailers in. You
know, again it's not, it'sabout. Not about numbers. It's about
showing up, being here. Right.Someone commented that they had particularly.
(19:01):
Canadian retailers here, whichI thought was fantastic. Did not
expect to hear that Canadiangot a.
Got an award tonight from.
That's right. So thank you for coming.
But thank you.
We're being really sincerewith that.
Right.
We understand we're not maybeyour favorite country right now.
Right.
And you made the trip. But no,I think that that's what we have
(19:24):
to do here. We have to buildfor the long haul and so we have
to think beyond just what isthat booking right now and what are
we contributing to the whole.
Well, I guess put everybody onthe spot. Do we have any recommendations
of what are our takeaways aswe look ahead towards future outdoor
trade shows? What would wesay, anybody listening to this who
(19:44):
maybe is in that decisionmaking capacity, what should they
take away from what weobserved at, at the running event?
I mean I think we kind oftalked about it earlier when we started
talking about the awards. It'sthis idea of celebrating the retailer.
I mean it's, you know, there'sso much obvious emphasis on the commerce
of it all. But I think thatcelebration aspect turned out to
(20:05):
be really important and reallycrucial. It also kept people here
to the end. So it felt like acomplete show that way too.
The one thing I will say isbecause Owen did Ask Kent and Christina
this during our live event.Are we gonna. Before we even saw
how great the award ceremonywas, we were, like, said we were
on it. Like, hey, this is agood idea to get people to stick
around. Like you just said,Shantae. And I thought Christina's
(20:25):
answer was pretty humble.She's like, hey, we haven't really
earned that yet withSwitchback Spring specifically. Right.
But I gotta think it's in thecards, right? I mean, maybe not this
year, upcoming year, but inthe future.
Well, it did take him a fewyears to get to this level.
That's why we just got to dothe Rock Fight Awards, right? That's
right.
(20:46):
Fjallraven isn't here toconquer mountains, tame rivers, or
beat the weather. We're hereto go slowly, to tread carefully,
to cherish the visit. For us,the outdoor experience has never
been a race to victory. It'san ongoing journey to create equipment
and memories that last forgenerations to come. Our mission
is to inspire more people tomove with nature, and we do this
by developing durable andfunctional equipment that never goes
(21:08):
out of fashion. What we reallywant is to make it easier for people.
People to enjoy spending timein nature on nature's terms. This
is our passion. So let's useour vast experience and competence
to help more people feel athome in nature, because when they
do, they will take greatercare of it. Get started on your Fjallraven
journey by heading tofjallraven.com today. Hey, Rock fighters.
(21:29):
The air is cooling down andthe trail is beckoning, and Lemz
is ready to move with you.Lemz has new shoes like the Trailblazer
Mid, the mighty Trail Thrasherand the insulated Breck boot. Get
your Lem's boots to get readyfor the season ahead. And hey, retailers,
did you know Lemz recentlyexpanded their wholesale sales team?
(21:50):
So do you want to meet withyour new local rep? Well, if you
do, send an email to Colo.That's C O L O M S shoes dot com.
Just make sure you tell themthat the Rock Fight sent you lems,
where less equals more. Wetalked. We. We. We ran the live show.
You're gonna. You can go backand listen to it on the feed that
came out probably over by thetime I got to edit it and put it
up there. This is coming outon Monday. We talked about some booth
(22:14):
stuff, but we have some otherbooth thoughts. Yeah. So let's just.
Let's start positively Right.Let's go around the horn like we
Had. There was a lot ofcompliments, and we've already given
a few out on this episode.What's everybody's favorite booth?
Who did a good job here at therunning event? Booth wise.
So before we get into that,the first one of the things, obviously,
that I noticed here was justthe number of running footwear brands
(22:37):
that were here.
What is the running event?
Okay, I understand that. Yes.I haven't had that many glasses of
wine. I do realize that.
What?
So many maximalist shoes. It'sunbelievable. Like, we were talking
at dinner about, like, if youtook somebody from 2012 when Hoka
(22:58):
sort of first arrived at OR,and then brought them into the future
of this show, their mind wouldbe blown. It's like, what the fuck
happened?
Cumulative one.
So much EVA.
So much EVA.
I was going to say like acumulative 1 million millimeters
of stack height. It was insane.
Insane. Okay, so now here'sEva Mine. And like a quick game here.
(23:19):
I've got 10 brands that Iwasn't. I wasn't as. As aware of
as running footwear brands.Okay. And I'm going to throw them
out here, and I just want to.Before this event, did you know that
they existed as runningfootwear brands?
Just like a. Yes.
No. An honor system. I'mlooking at you. True honor system.
Okay.
(23:40):
Yes, I know that one.
Okay.
No, Yes, I know that one.
Okay. 9, 10, 19.
No, not a chance.
No. Okay, that's zeros. Okay. Kipron.
I feel like I've heard thename. I wouldn't have known they
were footwear brand, though.
Okay, all right.
That's just Kip. You know Kip.
Oh, no, no, no.
Good guy.
Okay. Made plus. As a footwearbrand. No, no. Okay, all right. Hollo.
(24:07):
H O L O. As a footwear brand.
Wait, not the socks.
Not this. Not hollow. H O L O.
Nothing here.
No, wait a minute. How do youpronounce that differently than the
socks?
No, the socks have two L's anda W. Yeah, it's like.
That's like a colon or a colon.
Yes.
Only two L. Collins are posers.
(24:28):
Okay.
There are a lot ofunpronounceable brands here.
I just want to say. 361.
Nope.
365 maybe.
Okay. No. Okay. Atom.
Yes.
Okay, we have one. Okay, goodone. Okay. Karhu. K A K A R H U.
Yeah, I know Karhu.
Karhu. Yeah, you got that one.Okay. Rad or rad?
(24:52):
Yes, I was familiar with them,but it was cool to see them. But
we'll talk About. I'm surewe're going to talk about.
Okay. I think it's otim. O tivm.
Is that a medicine?
You just made that up.
What are the side effects of Autofin?
Make that up real fast.
Running real fast. Okay. Andfinally, High racer.
(25:12):
No.
Is that a CBD brand?
Okay. And finally, as arunning brand. Lemz.
As a running brand. No.
No.
We knew they were coming outwith a running shoe. Yes, of course.
Come on.
We love Lamb. Sponsor thepodcast Lems. Come on.
I was wearing their primal Zenyesterday. They didn't pay me to
(25:35):
say that either.
All right, let's talk aboutbooze. We're just going to go around
the horn. Do you want me togo? Shantay, you want to go first?
All right, a bit. Dave's goingto call me Basic, but he's. And he's
probably not wrong. But theNordaboo booth, because. And there's
a reason why you would call meBasic for that, because so many reasons.
Yeah, but it was. Nord isreally. We love Nord. We've talked
(25:59):
about Nord on the podcast. I'ma fan of their shoes. They have basically
five styles. Right. They havevery few shoes in the range. They
came with a. Was it 10 by 20?10 by 30.
10 by 30.
10 by 30. Very. Again, basicin black booth with the shoes sort
of hanging merchandise.
I would call it minimalist.
There you go. Right. I think.I think Dave was. Dave's more intimating
(26:20):
that I was sucked in by thesort of the iPhone, Steve Jobs sort
of vibe of it all. And I was.
I just.
I'm here for it.
I thought that was the UFOS booth.
No, that was the PowerPoint booth.
It was more Microsoft.
But the. I just.
It.
It worked. And actually theyeven said, like, the idea that when
it gets Busy as a 10 by 30,they can kind of spill out into the
(26:41):
aisle. It gives you.
It just.
I don't know. There was a.There was a great vibe. I like the
way it looked. It matched thebrand, which is very clean, and I
thought they did a great job.Also, I got to meet Lance Armstrong
right in front of their booth,which was pretty cool. So, you know,
say what you want about LanceArmstrong. I thought it was cool
to meet Lance Armstrong, butwhat do you got, Shantay?
My favorite runner, LanceArmstrong. I. I'm gonna say. So I
(27:04):
will admit here on the podcastthat I was a satisfy hater. I didn't
really get it. I wasunsatisfied. But maybe I was just
pre. Pre satisfied. Okay.Maybe it was that because I got there
before these guys who allapparently forgot about our app.
I'm furiously texting them,but I started getting the rundown
and it's one of those enclosedbooths where, you know, it's like
(27:24):
Secret Service guarding thedoorway. But I sat there and I got
the rundown on why it was thatway. And they were just like, listen,
we want people to understandit. People implied people like me
who don't. And we want them tounderstand the full story and see
it. We want to be able toguide them through this experience.
And I will say after, afterwalking through all of it, I was
like, okay, I'm not going tobuy any of this because it's all
(27:47):
really expensive and I justrun in cotton T shirts. But, but
I. To wear all of it. The armchaps, the, the lightweight jorts,
the, you know, band T shirtwith the moth. Moth holes in it.
That's not what the tech. Thestrategically placed moth holes.
I honestly, I came away beinginto it.
(28:07):
Yeah. I think you know whatyou're getting at. Even to paint
the picture, we're talkingabout a. What was it, a 20 by 20
or 30 by 30 metal cube, 20ft high.
Right.
I mean, it was a Borg. And youentered into it through that door,
which gave that exclusive. Andit really. The way they presented
products. Right, right, right.I love that. It really did give you
(28:32):
a sense that you were steppinginto like a Soho boutique and the
way they presented their,their product. And so it was really
more of fashion, performancefashion as a true blend. It was not
activewear. Okay. That triesto be fashionable. It was an absolute
blend. And that's their brandfor sure. But the presentation of
(28:52):
it really upped, I would say,the impact of their position.
Yeah. And I thought it wasinteresting too. Cause I kind of
joked, I'm like, man, thisbooth is like the Rick Owens of the
running world. And he gotreally. The guy from Satisfy was
like, well, no, we don't wantpeople to see us that way. He's like,
we actually know a lot ofpeople who are into the aesthetic,
but they don't buy theclothes. But they are inspired to
go out there and wear whatthey want instead of what they think
(29:14):
they're supposed to bewearing. And I actually really like
that that the one thing.
And it was, it wasn't a.Clearly, a lot of these brands were
still very feature and benefitheavy and tech stuff. But it did
seem, I. I noticed think afterwe, as we left Satisfy that there
were, there were plenty ofbooze where A brand story and product
story were the primary thing.And you know, then, great, we have
(29:35):
technical specs and thingsafterwards versus the run. And outdoor
industries are usually beenvery like, oh, well, this moves moisture
and protects you frommoisture, and here's how it benefits
you. And that's. We lead withthe features and benefits and the
tech stuff. And this I found alot of great brand and product stories
leading the charge, which Ifound. Something that we talk about
a lot is like, that's whatreally people care about the most.
They expect this stuff to work.
(29:57):
Absolutely. So for me, myfavorite was actually the Keen booth.
That was a good one. Anotherbooth that really talked to the brand
that was on brand. If youwould remove the logos, you'd say,
oh, that's the Keen booth. AndI think we mentioned on the pod that
it had a van growing in it,which I think is great. If you can
have a booth that grows a vanevery time, you're probably making
(30:17):
money.
It's been a healthy harvestseason for booth fans, Dave. I'm
sure we'll talk about it.
But actually, my favorite partwas because this was mainly to introduce
their new trail running line.My favorite part was they showed
all eight prototypes worn inby all of the running that was done
in them. And just theprogression of how they came to the
shoe that they had today,which I thought was really a nice
(30:38):
way to do it.
Look, keen won me over, right?I think we made it. I think they're
part of our lightning round.When they introduced their shoe and
we were kind of like, oh, ofcourse now they have a trail running
shoe too. Which, I mean,honestly, I don't feel that bad about
saying, because, like, ofcourse they would. Why wouldn't they?
They're keen. They're a bigfootwear brand. They're known for
their sandals and boots. Whywould they not also offer a trail
running shoe? But we got tomeet with their team. They also,
(30:59):
they just brought on JeffBrowning and Chrissy Mail. Like legendary
ultra runners, they have adedicated group of product folks
working on the trail runningline. And they're like, no, we're
going for it. We're makingreally good trail running shoes.
We're bringing in well knownultra athletes to run in our shoes.
And I, you know, I'm like,wow, okay, good for you guys, man.
You're not messing around.You're not just like checking the
(31:20):
box and saying, look, look atour maximalist running shoe. Trail
running shoe. We have one too.So I thought it was an interesting
story.
Look, there were a Lot ofinteresting things. I think we're
at a cool time in terms ofwhere technology's taking us and
what we're able to build intothese structures. We don't require
the huge, massive builds maybefor the impact that we used to. So
you're getting more bang foryour buck from the space. Like the
(31:42):
tickers that we saw in termsof the space. So I think that's like
the on they went. You know,their booth was basic from a build
perspective. Another closedBorg, but it was their software,
it was their screens. Right.
I almost thought there'snothing special here.
Full minority port, right?Yeah, right. Like, please set the
shoe up on the screen. And itunlocks a whole, you know, the folders
(32:05):
and discussion about it. It'sfantastic. I just, I think that kind
of stuff is, is really whatbrings us into the consumer world
here from a trade perspective.The product element table, I think
is another thing that you sawover and over where they take the
product, take the shoe,explode it out. So you can see the
build of the product. And youknow, the prototype wall Keen wasn't
(32:27):
the only one that did that.Other brands, let me see the iterations
and the markings on the shoeand the kind of the breakdown as
they're building to it, reallyplaying the technology story. So
I think you saw that all overthe place. So I thought that was
great. And then you know,Birkenstock, which typically has
a nice feeling booth there,that's the other end of that. We
(32:47):
go from an explosion.
It's okay when you say a brandand all of your co hosts start laughing.
Well, we go from kind ofproduct component explosion to just
an explosion inside thatbooth. It really gave you the vibes
of your local shoe repair shopthat's been there for 50 years. It
was, I don't know, it was odd.And you know, Colin, you pointed
this out too. The sign, theceiling sign, which we all use to
(33:09):
direct us to the booth, wasbigger than the booth itself.
I think I can see it fromwhere we're sitting.
That's right, that's right. Sothose are just some little things
like that. But I think for thebooth that stood out to me the most
amongst all these great buildsand great brands, was the smallest
one that we did to comeacross. Right. And it's a 10 by 10
(33:29):
from a brand called Tantrum.And they make. What is it? Running
vests?
Yeah, like hydration vests.
That's running, but that's notthe story so much. And even from
the founders kind ofdescription of this they know that
they need to tell a greaterstory. This 10 by 10 was dressed
up like a bodega. And when Isay like a bodega, you had to double
(33:52):
take it first to see what thehell is that doing here. And they
took.
It looked like a bodega.
That's right. They had theproduct in a cooler display that
you'd think you'd buy in beerall the way with the flickering broken
light in it. Every piece inthere was rebranded and relabeled.
Windex for sale. Nope. Tantrumbrand. What is that? Black beans?
(34:16):
That's right. Matchbooks andstickers. If you looked at the posters
on the wall, the lottery.That's right side was altered a bit.
And so it was just such agreat job and attention to detail.
The 10 by 10. That's right.And there was so much to look. You
could stand there for 15minutes just taking in all of that.
(34:36):
And it really did set up thekind of. So why of all this? And
then they would engage you,you know, the. The floor staff would
engage you about the productand what they're doing.
And that's the thing. When youhave. They had one vest to show.
And when you have one product,it's either going to sit there and
look sad. Clif bar, or you'regoing to be able to tell a story
that got all of us to stop.Like how, you know, you stop because
(34:57):
you're like, what is going onhere? And then that drew me in a
tiny booth.
But it also just shows youthat a great booth doesn't take $100,000.
That booth probably costs, Idon't know, $5,000. But it just takes
creativity and just thinkingoutside the box and having a vision
(35:17):
for something that isn't just,oh, here's the product.
It's the vision and thewillingness to take a concept all
the way through. So often westop with the front or maybe a good
headline, right? Or just thecolor. No, no. There's so much more
that you can add to that thatcreates a depth of story.
The. The two. And we can talkif we want to talk about who they
(35:39):
were. But our two leastfavorite booths, the one of the issues
with them were they were 10 by20s and they were jammed full of
rolling rack apparel. And itwas just. You couldn't. It was. It
was. You couldn't see past it.It looked like you were like at a
discount store. And so I wouldsay to them, hey, pick your hero
product. You don't need tobring your whole range. Right? What's
your hero product that isgoing to speak to the audience at
(36:01):
the event where it's. We knowit's runners like. And so even if
Tantrum had a larger range oflike, well, only have a 10 by 10.
Great, let's sell the best.
I find it amazing in 2025,we're still having that discussion
of don't jam everything in.Show your hero product. Get people
engaged and intrigued. Theywill find you. They will call you
back.
Yes.
Like, they will want to seethe rest of your line.
(36:22):
Right. Are you really in yourfive minute meeting? Like, wait,
hold on. I have 60 moreproducts we have to get through.
All right, this is the one youwant. We have other stuff too, if
you want to see.
I have six styles of taupethat you haven't seen yet.
And it just, I just, you know,not that it was hands down the best
booth we saw at the Tantrumbooth for all the reasons we said.
(36:42):
I think the four of us agreein that. And honestly, the only bummer
is we didn't see it before ourlive event. So we could have shouted
them out at the live event.
Yeah, I agree. I agree though.And I still do want to like, just
even though we mentioned it inthe show, I. Brooks has the biggest
booth on the floor. They'rekind of showing their weight, which
again is fun for that fromespecially this show. But their fun
(37:04):
house concept to support theirflex your freedom idea. Excellent.
Just well executed well.
And what we did find out afterthe fact was actually they're pivoting.
They're tired of being abillion dollar footwear brand and
they're going to go intobusiness with Pierre at Halloween.
And this was just their firststep into that new direction. Oh,
yes.
So I'm seeing then the, thelicensing co op with Halloween town.
(37:28):
Well, they want to makecostumes with good traction. That'll
be nice and good tread. So.
I grew up in Milwaukee, you know.
All right, so last thing we'regoing to do is go through our predictions
and be accountable to itbefore we do that. Our consigliere,
right. He was roaming thehalls of the show.
Right.
He had his ears open.
(37:48):
You know, he talks to a lot of people.
He talks to of a lot. Theydon't even know who they're talking
to sometimes. And then hereports back. All right, so what,
Owen, what did you hear at the show?
So, a couple of things. Sofirst of all, we heard that Scott.
Scott sports. Really? No, moreas a mountain biker. Hangs out with
Adam and Kip apparently so.But they had nine People at the show,
(38:13):
they weren't exhibiting manydesigners, et cetera. So the inference,
and again, this is all rumors,rumor, this is all rumor, is that
they are, and they do havesome RUN product today, but that
they're going to get big intorun in the US Market.
I don't mean they've been inrun. They definitely have had shoes,
they've had some part of therange. I mean, I think they're primarily
known for their mountainbiking or cycling, at least apparel
(38:36):
and bikes, whatever. So I'mcurious what that will mean.
But clearly it's an interest,though. Yeah.
Okay.
Now on the topic of peopleshowing up and interest in running,
nobody from rei. Nope.
No buyers.
No buyers confirm.
Do we know that?
Well, this is talking topeople in the switchback section
who you think they would atleast, you know, stop by.
(38:58):
And say, hi, ChristinaHenderson, please confirm.
Exactly. And so, and we'veheard that Run is one of the four
pillars. And for I was in an REI.
Last week and the footwearwall, half of it was run.
So you would think that Runwould be here. And from what we're
hearing, it's a budget issue.But it's interesting nonetheless.
(39:19):
Another interesting fact wasPatagonia. So I've been a little
bit, I would say maybecritical of Patagonia in the last.
Maybe even on this podcast,maybe even.
On this podcast, but for lackof newness. And apparently I'm not
the first person to mentionthat because in talking to some folks
there, they've actually beenheads down on that. That issue and
(39:43):
they have just a shit ton ofstuff coming next year, like really
new stuff, not just new colorsof better sweaters.
Would love to see it.
100%.
It's been a minute.
And finally, and last but notleast, Prana, who we called out on
the prior show.
Let's talk about why we calledthem out.
Okay, let's.
So that's who I was referringto earlier in the booth that maybe
(40:05):
was struggling.
Welcome to a very specialedition of. Of let's Talk about Prana.
Let's talk about Prana.
Colin, I think, I think youhave something to say about. Was
it a tablecloth?
So Prada was one of my threebrands that I said might show up
trying a little too hard to bea run brand, which actually, of the
three brands I named, they arethe winner. They did. They had a
(40:25):
running mannequin in their booth.
They did. In fairness, yes.The only Rankin in their booth.
The problem is a 10 by 20, I believe.
Yes, 10 by 10. I think it was10 by 10, 10 again.
Two rolling racks packed tothe gills with product. A table with
a tablecloth. And this is whatShantae's referring to. As a former
tech rep, I was quite hurt tosee the logo all askew. The logo,
(40:48):
like Attic, you know, cattywampus to like, what's supposed to
be. It's just. It was. It wasall of us. We literally were like,
hey, Prana, blink twice if youneed help. It was like we. At that
point, it was just. It was bad.
It was. But. But what we heardwas that actually what we're seeing
is the last vestige of the oldPrana before the new Prana, like
(41:11):
a butterfly coming out of thechrysalis, will emerge.
I think producer Dave'squestion during the live event was,
you know you're owned byColumbia, right?
And apparently they do becausenew and exciting things are coming
down the path now.
That being said, even if youknow that's coming, there is no reason
(41:32):
to show what two full rollingracks in a shitty tablecloth.
Couldn't agree with you.
Come up with three products inyour little booth. Put it up. Were
Prana. They even sponsored ayoga session or something like that.
They were involved in theshow. So anyway, yeah, do better
Prana. But. But we're alsoexcited to see what you got.
Absolutely.
Is that the end of rumor corner?
Well, I. I did hear one kindof rumor that there's a fault developing
(41:56):
between sea to summit andmount to coast.
So a tectonic shift that's possibly.
Right.
A rumble.
All right, last thing. We allmade predictions. We now need to
be accountable to ourpredictions. Who's going first?
I'll go first.
Okay.
(42:17):
What was my prediction?
I don't remember.
Your host, man.
You're the host.
You didn't even write it inthe last doc.
My prediction was that in thisjoined iteration of Switchback and
Tre and after Switchback ishacked, its solo appearance, that
an outdoor brand would step upand bring it.
(42:39):
Bring it. That's right.
Like the running brands do attheir side. And. And I do want to
include Merrill or excludeMerrill in that. They. They do bring
it. They brought it before.
They're really good at making booths.
They.
They really. They really are.Right. And they're really good at
telling you how good they areat making booths. So my prediction
is that someone else was goingto bring it and I was wrong. No one.
(43:03):
No one brought.
Was a bit sad trombone on the.On the. Just the innovative booth.
Like there was some. There wasfine stuff, but. And there Was but
I mean there was nothing thatyou're like, whoa, like look at that.
Like you know, the whatever. Iguess Berg house might have been
the closest but even then theywent just very kind of simple. What
do you got Owen? What was your prediction?
(43:24):
So my prediction was actuallythat. Switchback 2026 would indeed
try to replicate the amazingawards show that we just saw. And
we asked the question on thelast show at the live show and as
you mentioned, Christina saidknow that they probably haven't earned
it yet, which I think is avery. Reasonable and honest answer
(43:47):
quite frankly. So hopefullymaybe 2027 and actually having witnessed
it, I can see her point quite frankly.
If you're trying to live up tothis, like yeah, let it build up,
work up to that.
Officially now we're over two.
Yeah. Right Shantay.
All right, I'm going to, I'mgoing to make us one for two. I,
My prediction was basicallythat there are going to be a ton
(44:09):
of conversations and a ton ofproduct out there telling the story
of trail running. And I thinkeven though I thought it maybe would
be even more than it was, itwas pretty substantial. I felt seen
okay as a trail runner. Butyeah, I think we saw, we saw people
bringing trail run shoes forthe, the first time. We saw some,
you know, completely trail runbrands out there and I feel like
(44:32):
there was a lot of love givento trail run. So I feel successful
in this unlike some other people.
Yeah. And, and I think youspecifically though we saw brands
who aren't necessarily fullytrail run lean into it. Keen is one
example. Nike had a whole ACGthing. Like it was half their booth
was acg, Veja Vesa, whateverthey came with with just a trail
(44:55):
or anything and they've got amuch wider line. So I think we give
Shantae full marks.
I think.
Yes. I think you know, I meanLEMS also brought their first. They
debuted a running shoe and Ithink even though it's not a trail
running shoe, they did bringsome ivy, some like fake ivy hanging
to the booth. So it's kind oflike being on the trail.
Well, it could go with ACG'ssynthetic rocks.
(45:16):
Right?
You could put those together.
No, Adidas had the.
Yeah, yeah, the Adidassynthetic rocks were. I think they
took synthetic rocks to a newGerman level.
Obviously were some rejectsfrom Land of the Lost from like the
1970s, you.
Know, like they were rigid andhad no humor.
(45:37):
My predictions were one, likeI mentioned earlier was the an outdoor
brand would try be a littletoo try hard and and show up and
trying to be a running brandand not pull it all off and mentioned
Prana wins that one. So I'llget a quarter point, maybe half a
point for that one.
Is a single mannequin reallyit was a running man.
It was trying to be a running.It was literally like here are rolling
racks and here's our running man.
(45:58):
Wait a minute. Are you surethat wasn't the only one left at
the rental agency? You linethat's all we've got. It's got this
one running. It's a goodthing. It's a running track.
If you say no then I'll, I'llaccept that.
Right, right.
I said that Berghaus also and,and and we, we spoke with Shane who
also who heard the box pod andhe said actually you made a mistake
because across the hall fromthem was steel who definitely did
(46:19):
this and they had some runningmannequins while still having just
their steel stuff. So I wasclose in proximity to that one and
then see the summit who alsoheard the pod and was like they were
bummed that they heard it latebecause they said they would have
absolutely built a runner outof like neck pillows which is just.
Just to troll me which wouldhave been amazing. No, they showed
(46:41):
up with just their range andwe're happy to do so.
I think actually you shouldget the point regardless because
I thought you set too high abar by not only saying the thing
but saying which specific towho it would be. So personally I
think mission accomplished.
It definitely happened.
It happened.
Right, right, right. And myother prediction was the broader
one of this will be the lastswitchback at Tre. I feel pretty
(47:03):
good about this. We won't knowfor a while but I feel that switchback
as part of the name of theshow is. It's not necessary at this
point. I think it will go. Ithink switchback should turn into
or maybe potentially will gointo being kind of like Venture out
used to be an outdoor retailerwhere it's a section of the floor.
Here's the outdoor section atthe running event but the show is
(47:24):
just the running event and Ithink that's what's going to happen.
Or does trail running continueto grow unabated where it just takes
over every available squareinch that isn't just road run and
so it will push out all of theother native outdoor brands.
What you're saying is weshouldn't be afraid of AI but we
should be afraid of trailrunning. TR I remember the day trail
(47:46):
running got into thegovernment systems.
It's all tr.
I just hope somebody brings abidet next year, you know, it will
probably be you.
All right, guys, that's theshow for today. Thanks for going
on our running event Journeywith us, the Rock Fights of production.
Don't forget Switchback.
I just said Switchbacks overuntil New Orleans, then it's back.
(48:09):
Switchbacks back, baby.Switchback Spring the Rock Fights
a production of Rock Fight LLCFor Shantay Salibare, Owen Comerford
and our producer, producerDave. Thanks going out to Sarah Gensert.
I am Colin True. Thank you forlistening. And here he is. Like always
to take us out with the RockFight Fight song, it's Chris da Makes.
We'll see you next time, Rock fighters.
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rockfight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock
(48:35):
flight. Welcome to the rockfight where we speak our truth Slay
sacred cows and sometimesagree to disagree. We talk about
human powered outdooractivities and big bites about topics
that we find interesting likepop culture music, the latest movie
(48:57):
reviews, ideas that aim forthe head. This is where we speak
our truth. This is where wespeak our truth. Rock fight. Rock
fight. Rock flight. Welcome tothe Rock flight. Rock fight. Rock
five. Welcome to the Rockflight. Rock flight. Rock flight.
(49:17):
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rockfight. Welcome to the Rock fight.
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock. Fight.
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