November 22, 2025 • 28 mins
Today on The Rock Fight, Colin, Eoin, and Producer Dave sit down with Tony Post, founder and CEO of Topo Athletic, live from GOA Connect in Kansas City, to talk about the booming trail running market and Topo’s big year.
Topo has quietly become one of the most talked-about brands in trail running. Growing 70% last year and expanding into 25 countries all while staying true to its specialty roots and never running a sale on its website in 12 years.
In This Episode
- Trail Running’s Not New: Why today’s hype is really the second (or third) wave. From Leadville in the ’90s to the Born to Run era to now.
- Surviving 145% Tariffs: How Topo shifted production from China to Vietnam without sacrificing fit or durability.
- A 13-Year Overnight Success: Why Topo focused on authentic growth, not blowing up fast.
- Run vs. Outdoor Specialty: Why the brand refuses to choose.
- Silent Flex: Zero discounting… ever
- The Up-and-Comers: Tony weighs in on Speedland, Norda, and Mount to Coast and why entering the category is harder than it looks.
- Why Topo Will Still Be Here in 10 Years: Tony’s philosophy: deliver a better experience, every time.
For The Parting Shot presented by Garage Grown Gear, Colin struggles with the glut of poorly executed maximal midsoles.
Thanks for listening! The Rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight, LLC.
Please follow and subscribe to The Rock Fight and give us a 5 star rating and a written review wherever you get your podcasts.
Want to pick a fight with The Rock Fight? Send your feedback, questions, and comments to myrockfight@gmail.com.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Rock Fight. Rock Fight. RockFlight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock
Flight.
Welcome to the Rock Fightwhere we speak our truth, slay sacred
cows and sometimes agree todisagree. This is an outdoor podcast
that aims for the head. I'mColin True and today it's our third
interview from this year's GoaConnect show in Kansas City. But
(00:22):
before we get into any ofthat, here are some programming reminders.
Are you ready to see the RockFight live? Catch Me Shantae Salibair,
Producer Dave and OwenComerford at the running event. On
Wednesday, December 3rd, we'regoing to be doing a live taping of
the Rock Flight in theTraining Camp theater right by the
Switchback side of the show.We're going to be joined on stage
by folks like tre showdirector Christina Henderson, president
(00:45):
of the oia, Kent Ebersole, andpotentially one of their special
guests. We're going to confirmthat right now, actually, and we're
going to hear from Gear Abbey.You'll of course get producer Dave
and the rest of our crew'sassessment of the booth situation
at the show. If you were atSwitchback Spring, you you're going
to know how much fun we willhave. I hope to see you in San Antonio.
And hey, if there's one otherthing you can depend on in life,
(01:06):
it's that Gear Abbey doesn'ttake days off. This Thanksgiving
Thursday, you're going to getan all new episode of Gear Abbey
with host Shantae Salibair whoanswers all of your burning outdoor
questions. And lastly, we dowant to hear from you. Email us@myrockblademail.com
reach out on LinkedIn or youcan search us up. We're just rock
fight on LinkedIn or head toInstagram where we are. RockfightCo.
(01:28):
Send us a message. Let's getinto today's episode. You know the
Rock Fight Crew and I haveregular production meetings and kind
of running email and textthreads that we all respond to on
a daily basis. We'reconstantly talking about what to
feature on the show andquestioning the right and wrong topics
that we want to dig into everyweek. And in a year of so much uncertainty,
thanks to tariffs and otherforces outside the control of our
(01:51):
brands and retailers, trailrunning has become one of the topics
we talk about the most, andone that usually brings with it something
positive or at leastinteresting to highlight. Even if
we feel like maybe we'retalking about it a little too much.
It just, it gets, it's allwe're talking about lately, but it's
the news of what's happeningright now. And the funny thing is
about that is that trailrunning isn't new. I mean, go back
(02:13):
and look at the footwearbrands that got the most attention
in the early 2000s. You'llfind brands like Montreal and Innovate.
You'd also see the original XAPro from Salomon, an attempt by Vasque
back then to make trailrunners. My first outdoor interaction
with Timberland, a brand whereI would eventually work, was when
I was working at EMS in thelate 90s and we sold their Mountain
Athletic line. But it wouldn'tbe until the Born to Run era and
(02:36):
rise of ultramarathons in the2010 range that trail running would
start to take on its moremodern form. And there were plenty
of brands to mention thathelped this transition, but the most
obvious ones are Hoka, Altraand also Topo Athletic. So Topo launched
around the same time as thoseother brands. But while Altra and
Hoka quickly found theircustomer base, the outcome wasn't
(02:56):
quite as certain for Topo.They built the reputation of great
product over the ensuingdecade by showing up at specialty
retail and forming an identitybased on their founder and namesake,
Tony Post. Fast forward totoday and the Topo surge is happening.
Topo routinely gets praisedfor the quality of its products and
carries a cool factor thatsome of the other now big trail running
brands used to have. But itgets hard to maintain that cool factor
(03:20):
when you've attracted theeveryday mall walking crowd. So I
was interested in getting achance to chat with Tony and find
out what the journey has beenlike over the past decade and a half
and fortunately he agreed tosit down with me, Comerford and producer
Dave at GOA Connect in KansasCity a couple of weeks back. And
today, dear listeners, you getto hear that conversation, which
is coming up next. So welcomeback to the Rock Flight, where today
(03:42):
we get an insider look at thebooming trail running market with
Topo Athletic founder TonyPost. Fjallraven isn't here to conquer
mountains, tame rivers, orbeat the weather. We are here to
go slowly, to tread carefully,and to cherish the visit. For us,
the outdoor experience hasnever been a race to victory. It's
an ongoing journey to createequipment and memories that last
(04:03):
for generations to come. Ourmission is to inspire more people
to move with nature, and we dothis by developing durable and functional
equipment that never goes outof fashion. What we really want is
to make it easier for peopleto enjoy spending time in nature
on nature's terms. This is ourpassion. So let's Use our vast experience
and competence to help morepeople feel at home in nature. Because
(04:23):
when they do, they will takegreater care of it. Get started on
your Fjallraven journey byheading to fjallraven.com today.
As the air cools and thetrails beck and Lemz is ready to
move with you. Lemz has newshoes like the Trailblazer Mid, the
mighty Trail Thrasher, and theinsulated Breck boot. Get your Lem's
boots to get ready for theseason ahead. And attention outdoor
(04:46):
retailers. Are you going to beheading to the running event and
switch back? Well, then youcan see all of the styles I just
told you about, as well ascheck out Lem's new running shoes.
Also, Lemz recently expandedtheir wholesale sales team. Want
to meet with your new localrep? We'll send an email to colo
c o l o emsshoes.com and justmake sure you told them that the
Rock fight sent you LEMs whereless equals more rock fighters. We
(05:09):
all know that the Rock Fightis the voice of the outdoor industry,
and as such, I'd like tointroduce a new brand just hitting
the outdoor scene. Everyone,meet Trovoca. Trovoca empowers outdoor
enthusiasts and adventurerswith elegantly rugged products that
enhance every journey from thebackcountry to the backyard. With
a lineup of gorgeouslydesigned e coolers, power stations,
and camp kitchen products,Travoca crafts premium outdoor gear
(05:32):
that empowers you to bring theamenities of home without compromising
on style or performance. Andhey, retailers want to learn more
about bringing Trovoca intoyour shop? Well, find them@travoca.com
or message them on LinkedIn,which is travoca USA. All right,
well, we're here today withConnect with Tony Post, the CEO and
founder of Topo Athletic. And,Tony, we wanted to bring you in because
(05:54):
I'm not sure if you've heard,but there's this new thing. It's
all the rage. It's calledtrail running. It's happening. Do
you know anything about it?
I know a little about trailrunning, I guess. Yeah.
Is it kind of weird? I mean,you're 13 years into this Topo journey.
I mean, like, how's it going?Especially when, like, running is
kind of like having thisincredible moment.
Yeah, it is fun. It's. I mean,I love. I love this show. I love
(06:17):
the people who attend thisshow. It's. I, you know, I just have
a passion for this space inthe business. I grew up in Colorado
as a lot of people know. And Icame to running kind of late in my,
you know, athletic career, Iguess in my late teens and. But ran
(06:37):
in college and then ran aftercollege for a bit. But my first real
heavy exposure to trailrunning, since we're talking about
trail running stories. Yeah.Was with the Leadville Trail 100.
So I worked for a company andconvinced them that we needed to
sponsor the Leadville Trail100 back in the early 1990s. And
(06:59):
it was just, it was just somuch fun and such a great education
and learning experience. Andat that time, you know, not that
many people were running 100mile trail races. And so it was really
kind of a crazy thing. Peoplewould say, totally.
So you're. Are we two yearsnow post DSW?
(07:19):
We are, yes. Post DBi, it'llbe three years in December. That's
right. And so I know when,when I sold. So we still own 20%
of the company, but ourbusiness was growing really rapidly
and we needed more capital. Sowe needed to either go to private
equity or to a strategicinvestor. We had a lot of interest
(07:43):
from a lot of differentpeople. But dbi, which is the parent
company of DSW Store, said,even though we want to be the majority
shareholder, we're going tolet you control the company. So they
structured the agreement in away that allowed us to make all the
strategic decisions in thecompany because of course, the first
one people said, oh, does thismean you're going to be in DSW stores?
(08:04):
Right, right. The mediaconnecting those dots.
So, you know, and a lot of ourcompetitors sell in DSW stores, as
you guys know. But we've noteven sold a closeout. So we're really
true to the original strategyof the brand, is to be more specialty
focused. It hasn't been aboutmaking it as big as you can, as fast
as you can, but trying to stayand build something authentic that
(08:27):
can last a long time.
So you can't predict anything.But when you kind of look back over
the 13 years, are you kind ofwhere you think you would hope to
be now? Is it, you know, whenyou founded the brand?
I, you know, I don't think Ithought more than two or three years
out. And in those early years,as you guys know, sometimes you're
just worried about making sureyou have money to make payroll so
(08:48):
you don't lose your people andpay the rent. And so, you know, you
kind of live year to year inthe beginning. It's nice to have
a vision for where you want toend up. We had a sense of the values
that we wanted to create forthe brand and the types of products
we wanted to make. But I thinkit got better and better. And for
me, it's because the smartestthing I did was I chose really good
(09:11):
people to work with. And so webrought on great people. And at the
end of the day, that's what'sgoing to make you succeed, or unfortunately
maybe not succeed. So I wasvery lucky in that way.
To those that haven't seen theresults, you've just. Sales have
been just crazy this year tothe point where it sounds like you
(09:32):
could have sold even more ifyou had more product.
Yeah, we, we've had a good fewyears. Excuse me. We, we grew, I
think, 70% in 20, 24, 7 0.
Wow.
We're up about 52%, I think,this year. But you're right, if we
would have had more productnow. The biggest challenge this year,
(09:52):
of course, were the tariffs.
Of course.
And when the tariffs got to be145% coming out of China, of course,
that wasn't helpful. No, thatwasn't helpful. I mean, and we have
great factories there. We havegreat factories in Vietnam too. But
we had to move a lot ofproduction from China to Vietnam.
(10:13):
And so that was a challengeand it was hard to keep up. But our
team there did a phenomenaljob. There's a lot to it. Sourcing
all the materials, movingmolds, getting factories to be approved
and pass certain standards,going through the FIT trial process.
It can be really extensive.And the thing I didn't want is I
(10:34):
didn't want anybody to feellike, oh, you know, topos don't fit
like they used to or they'renot as durable. So you almost have
to have higher standards whenyou make some kind of a transition
like this. But I feel goodabout it. We're really well positioned
now for the future.
That's great. And just so thatour listeners have a sense of scale,
what sort of 12 month run rateare you at right now from a volume
(10:56):
perspective?
So we don't really usuallytalk about volume, but I would say
that just to give you a senseof it, Topo sells over a million
per year. So that could, youknow, kind of help you to understand
a little bit. We sell alsooutside the US So we sell in another.
I think we're up to like 25countries now outside the US so and
(11:18):
that helps. And that's alsohelped us to stay, you know, continue
to manufacture in China too,because we didn't want to give it
up completely. The Goal is toremain nimble and to be able to make
things that you can't tell orcare where they came from. You're
buying topo, that's the mainthing. So my expectation always is
that it's got to fit, feel,work like a topo, regardless of where
(11:40):
it's made.
So like we were saying at thebeginning, trail running, running
in general is kind of havingthis sort of. It's becoming like
the it category of the momentright now. I mean, and you mentioned
sort of the acceleration orthe growth in terms of the amount
of shoes you're selling thatyou could sell more if you had more
shoes. What do you attributethat demand to, like what's happening
in run?
(12:00):
Well, I think it's a coupledifferent things. I do think that,
you know, it's interesting.I've seen kind of a resurgence in
run among younger people. Sofor the last, and I wouldn't have
said that maybe five yearsago, so it's kind of more in the
last few years and it's becomea social activity. And so we see
(12:20):
a lot of that. You know, I goto some of these trail run demo events
that we'll do, or roadrun demofor that matter too. And sometimes
there'll be a pub crawl orsomething afterward. And it's just
really cool to see, you know,more people in there. I'm not saying
super young, but in their 20s,early 30s, all kind of getting involved
in the sport. It's not just abunch of old, old men like me anymore.
(12:44):
It's, you know, it's. I thinkit makes it more fun, more interesting
for everybody.
So when you think about when,when you founded the brand and you've
had it famously coming off ofyour days at Bibram and the whole
five finger boom and thencoming out of 2010s and the kind
of the born to run thing andeverything, it's kind of became like
Hoka Ultra Topo, right? Yeah,Hoka kind of a little bit more traditional,
(13:04):
really grew and kind of withinthe running community, Ultra kind
of almost built its brand onthe back of through hikers in a lot
of ways. Right? A lot of likethat community kind of. Maybe not
from a volume standpoint, butfrom a reputation standpoint.
We.
When you look at where Topo isand kind of like how you kind of
cross over in thosecategories, I mean, where. What's
more important to you rightnow is it, is it run specialty, is
it outdoor specialty? Is itkind of a mix of both?
I think it's really a Mix ofboth, you know, Safe answer, Tony,
(13:27):
but it would be very, youknow, we have more road running distribution
in the United States, butprobably, you know, I'm always going
to be a little bit partial tothe trail consumer. You know, that's
kind of been part of mybackground also. I would say in Europe
and possibly in the Far east,we have a stronger trail business
(13:50):
than we do a road business.So, you know, it's. The goal is always
to keep it balanced and justto make great shoes, whether it's
road trail. In the beginning,when we started, we also made shoes
for Jim. We kind of put thaton hold for a little while. Doesn't
mean we won't go back to it ordo it, but there was only so much
we could handle.
(14:10):
Did you just announce that thesplit toes coming back?
I didn't say that. I stillhave, I still have some emotional
scarring from those days.
It was a cool idea.
Yeah, I loved it and Iactually really liked the shoes.
But I think there are, youknow, there are bigger fish for,
for us to fry these days rightnow. But you never know. I mean,
I still think a shoe like thathas a purpose and a meaning.
(14:33):
So obviously you're doing verywell in wholesale run specialty,
outdoor specialty. Where isdirect sales? How do you see direct
sales for your brand and whereit fits within your strategic framework?
So that's one of the thingsI'm really proud of. And I think
you guys interview a lot ofdifferent people and I don't think
there are too many people thatcan say this, but in the 12 years
(14:54):
or just over 12 years thatTopo has been in the marketplace,
we have never once run a saleon our website in 12 years to never
run a sale. We're always fullprice when our dealers are granted
their off map periods so thatthey can clear goods were full price.
We do have discontinuedmerchandise on the website, but the
(15:16):
website is there, you know,for people who, you know, maybe they
don't have a Topo dealer intheir area. That was really the purpose
in the beginning. And so itwasn't, it was never designed to
compete with our wholesalepartners. And I think our job is
to tell a story, make sure weoffer products, but it's not, it's
(15:40):
not really considered a keysource of revenue for the company.
Want to ask you about yourcolor sophistication because that
seems to be something that hasbecome, you know, I'm not saying
if it's an improvement, ifit's just been an area of focus for
you, but it Seems like thecolors of the shoes really seem like
it's an important part.
It only took us 13 years, so Idon't know what the.
Well, we speak about that,right? Because that's something where
(16:00):
it's. There's a. It's anuanced thing because, you see, some
brands will, like, think, oh,let's just throw colors at it. And
it's like, whoa, I see yourshoes, but I don't know if I really
want to see your shoes and theones that kind of do it the right
way. It's like, it reallyspeaks to the consumer.
Yeah, I would say that we'vejust gotten better and better at
product in general. So that'salways. The goal is to improve every
season. And we have. We have areally great team of people. The
(16:24):
person who leads our productgroup now is Russ Stevens. He deserves
a lot of credit here. He's.
Is he the guy we refused tointerview today?
Yes, he's over sobbing in thecorner somewhere.
He came over with Tony.Listeners, it's fine. We'll interview
Russ some other day.
He's only 31, so you'll havemany more days to be able to.
Oh, he's a sensitive soul.
(16:46):
But in any event, you know, Ithink, you know, we do a lot of work
with. And we have a very youngteam, so we have a lot of people
in their 20s and 30s. We onlyhave a few people, you know, over
40 years old in the wholecompany. And I think, you know, we
encourage everybody to bereally in touch with the market and
what's going on and. And tospeak from the heart about things
(17:09):
that they love. And all ofthat goes into the product, whether
it's the types of platforms webuild, the colors that we select,
how we design product. I'mreally proud of how we've evolved,
I guess, as a company in that way.
So there's a couple morequestions for me. So, one, when you
look at those more establishedcompetitors, the Ultras and the Hokas,
(17:30):
who are you impressed by?Who's done the best job of you? Think
of those. Those kind of theones you came up with.
Yeah, they're all. It's. It'sso amazing to see, you know, because
I think going back to myVibram days, I remember when Hoka
was this little, you know, twoperson, you know, 10 by 10 booth
at outdoor retailer and. Andtalking to those guys, and then me
(17:54):
kind of half jokingly sayingto the owners of Vibram, be kind
of cool since we have Vibram,if we Acquired Hoka and then we'd
have the two extremes. Ofcourse, Vibram didn't want to acquire
a footwear brand because theydidn't want to compete with their
sole business customers, whichI really respected.
Sure.
I mean, they're all reallyterrific competitors. But I do tip
(18:15):
my hat to Hoka because I thinkthey've really built something that
I think has a lasting place inthe market. But that doesn't mean,
I think, what we bringdifferent. You know, we don't ever
try to go head to head withany one specific thing. We try to
(18:36):
stay authentic and true to whowe are. I think people come to Topo
because they love the fitsensation first, then they might
have. Some people wantsomething with a little less platform,
some people want somethingwith a little more. We give them
choices after that. And so,you know, we have to stay in our
lane and just keep doing whatwe do really well.
(18:59):
A few weeks ago, we did a kindof deep dive of three up and coming
brands. And we looked at itbecause Dave is a brand background,
Owens, a retail background. Ihad a chance to try these shoes.
So we talked about Speedland,Norda and Mount To Coast. So of these
sort of up and comers, and notjust those three, but like all of
the up and comers of whichthere are many right now, who has
your attention?
I mean, they're all. Again, Iknow this sounds like a safe answer.
(19:21):
Got to pick one, Tony.
I know.
Got to pick one.
Okay, if I have to pick one,I'll pick one. I mean, I think I'll
take them in stages. When Ifirst tried the Speedland shoes a
few years ago, I thought,these are really phenomenal shoes.
I hand it to those guys andbeing fearless, because I don't remember
what the first shoes cost, butthey were, you know, they are not
(19:43):
times as expensive as anybodyelse, but they executed and they
did a great job. And thenNorda, you know, I think they've
done also a really cool job. Ilove their attention to durability
and, you know, using premiumingredients. That's something we
really take to heart too. Youknow, I think we're one of the only
(20:03):
companies out there that's100% Vibram on our trail shoes. So,
you know, we always admirewhen people use quality ingredients
like that. And Mounted coastis definitely a company that's coming
up and building a following.
Out of nowhere, seeminglyRight. A year ago, just, just all
of a sudden they're here.
Yeah, but I think that's, youknow, it's hard to enter this business.
(20:26):
I mean, even though all ofthese companies seem to come in and
have come up, it's a reallydifficult entry. It's expensive,
you know, to open the toolingand the equipment to do all of this,
to build a business, to buildinventory, to service. All of these
things are costly. So I admireall these guys. It's hard to be an
(20:47):
entrepreneur in this.
I feel like, though, we aresort of at this golden age of trail
running. On that episode, Iactually talked about how it feels
like snowboarding did back inthe. I guess it was at the 90s, the
late 80s, early 90s, wherethere were so many snowboard brands.
(21:08):
Right. And then over time,Burton snapped up a few, and a few
others went away, and nowwe're kind of back down to maybe
a. A smaller set of players.Why do you think 10 years from now,
Topo is going to be one ofthose three or four major brands
that is still at the core ofthe industry?
(21:30):
Well, I think the mostimportant thing that we can do is
to pay attention to the needsof our customers. If we don't make
products that deliver a betterexperience, Topo won't be around.
So it's always about, itdoesn't matter what your price point
is or, you know, I mean, allthose things, of course they matter
in some ways, but at the endof the day, it's about, do you make
(21:51):
a product that delivers abetter experience? Can you make improvements
in this category that peopleappreciate and want to pay for? And
that's. That's a value that wehave to keep. And if we keep that
value, Topo will be around andsuccessful for a long time. It's
an exciting industry. You haveto have people that have a passion
(22:13):
for the space. You know, it'shard if you don't have a passion
to succeed in this business.So you really have to have a love
for it. You have to have alove for running and the sport, but
also an appreciation forpeople who are walking, hiking, people
who are just trying to stayfit and healthy. You know, as I age,
I realize how important thesethings are. I feel lucky to have
(22:36):
spent a lifetime in this spacebecause I think just personally,
it's helped me to live better.And if we can do that, if we can
deliver a better experience, abetter life for people, we'll thrive
and succeed, I'm sure.
So, last question. What'ssomething about Topo that most people
don't know?
(22:56):
Well, that's a good question.You know, I'm always amazed when
people say, you Know, I saytopo was a nickname I had in college,
and they say, oh, Topo, that'syou. Yeah. So I went to a reunion.
I guess I can say this. I wentto my 50th high school reunion, and
I was talking to the husbandof a woman that I knew in high school,
(23:20):
and I was saying I was in theshoe industry or in the shoe business,
and he's like, oh, man, I justfound this. And he went on to tell
me this whole thing aboutTopo, and I just kind of let him
run on for a little bit, youknow, and it was so fun to be able
to do it. And then. And then,of course, eventually I had to tell
him. And they were. They were,you know, they were really happy.
But I guess it would have beena little weird if you put, like,
(23:42):
a picture of your face onevery shoe, like, it's me, you know?
Yeah, no, it was. So that's afun little story. Anyway.
Well, Tony, thank you so muchfor spending a few minutes with us,
and appreciate it very much.
Yeah, thanks, guys. Iappreciate what you do, too. Really
enjoy your interviews. I thinkyou bring a lot of value to the industry,
and I think you keep itentertaining, which is so, you know,
that's what makes it easy tolisten to often. So well done.
(24:05):
Appreciate that. Thanks, Tony.All right, it's time for the parting
shot presented by Garage GrownGear. Make sure to head over to GarageGrowingear.com
and check out everything thatis new over there. Just click when
you get there. There's alittle. Little, like, navigation
bar, and you'll see a littleflaming new button. Check that out.
(24:26):
I think they add things, like,seemingly every day. Check it out.
There's always so much coolstuff over on garagegrowngear.com
and we love their partnershiphere on the Rock flight. Thank you
to Lloyd and Maggie andeverybody else over there. Party
shot today. Quick partingshot. Maybe not so quick. I don't
know. We'll see how this goes.But it's for hoka, all right. Because
I've been testing a ton oftrail running and gravel shoes lately,
(24:48):
and most of the models I'vetried that have had that maximal
style midsole that, you know,HOKA is popularized. It just makes
for a plodding, not funexperience. Now, when I was back
at Timberland back in 2006, welaunched Go Light footwear, which
was a trail running specificline of shoes that had various technologies
that eventually would becomemainstream. So, like, if you think
that Altra and Topo were thefirst trail running brands to deploy
(25:10):
a foot shaped toe box, you'dbe wrong. We did that with Go Light
four years before those otherbrands existed. One other technology
that Go Light used was what wecalled soft against the ground technology.
In short, this was hoka beforehoka. The idea is to lessen impact
and smooth out the trail infront of you through midsole and
outsole tech. And hasdefinitely since been refined, most
(25:32):
notably by hoka. In myexperience trying hoka, I think they
nailed that sort of maximalexperience. But aside from the Mount
to Coast H1S, any other modelI've tried recently, anyway, that
deploys a soft, thick midsole,well, it feels like it's just sapping
the energy from my body as I'mhiking or running in them. Now, I
don't know what the secretsauce is to having a snappy, energetic
(25:55):
and thick midsole, but itseems like a lot of brands when they're
designing these shoes, justthink that they can win over consumers
with a cushy midsole that getsthe win based on out of the box comfort
and not through legitperformance. And I understand that
if you're, if you're somebody,you're sitting in a store and you're
putting it on and there's animmediate, ooh, cushy feeling, but
when you go out in them, itjust feels like you're wearing sponges
(26:18):
on your feet. So even thoughthey probably still do it the best,
my parting shot is for hoka,because God damn it, hoka, you popularized
this whole thing. And whileI'd like to throw a rock at Golay
Footwear for pioneering theidea, they've been dead since 2008.
So, Hoka, you get this rock.Actually, maybe I should take that
back because you're doing itthe best. I don't know. Bottom line
is, all of these other peoplewho are trying to mimic what HOKA
does, a lot of you aren'tpulling it off. And that's my parting
(26:41):
shot. All right, that's theshow for today. Big thanks to my
guest, Tony Post. Thank you,Tony, for sitting down with us. The
Rock Fight's a production ofRock Fight llc. I'm Colin True. This
episode was produced byproducer Dave. Thanks for listening.
And here to take us out likehe always is is Kristen Makes with
the Rock Fight Fight song.We'll see you next time, Rock Fighters.
(27:01):
Rock Fight. Rock Fight. RockFight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock
Fight. Welcome to the RockFight. Where we speak our truth,
slay sacred cows, andsometimes other agree to disagree.
We talk about human poweredoutdoor activities and big bites
(27:23):
about topics that we findinteresting like pop culture, music,
the latest movie reviews,ideas that aim for the head. This
is where we speak our truth.This is where we speak our truth.
Rock fight, Rock fight, Rockfight? Welcome to the rock fight,
Rock fight, Rock fight?Welcome to the rock fight Rock light
(27:48):
Rock fight Rock light, Rockfight, Rock fight? Welcome to the
rock fight Rock fight Rockfight, Rock fight.
Rock Fight. Rock Fight. RockFlight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock
Flight.
Welcome to the Rock Fightwhere we speak our truth, slay sacred
cows and sometimes agree todisagree. This is an outdoor podcast
that aims for the head. I'mColin True and today it's our third
interview from this year's GoaConnect show in Kansas City. But
(00:22):
before we get into any ofthat, here are some programming reminders.
Are you ready to see the RockFight live? Catch Me Shantae Salibair,
Producer Dave and OwenComerford at the running event. On
Wednesday, December 3rd, we'regoing to be doing a live taping of
the Rock Flight in theTraining Camp theater right by the
Switchback side of the show.We're going to be joined on stage
by folks like tre showdirector Christina Henderson, president
(00:45):
of the oia, Kent Ebersole, andpotentially one of their special
guests. We're going to confirmthat right now, actually, and we're
going to hear from Gear Abbey.You'll of course get producer Dave
and the rest of our crew'sassessment of the booth situation
at the show. If you were atSwitchback Spring, you you're going
to know how much fun we willhave. I hope to see you in San Antonio.
And hey, if there's one otherthing you can depend on in life,
(01:06):
it's that Gear Abbey doesn'ttake days off. This Thanksgiving
Thursday, you're going to getan all new episode of Gear Abbey
with host Shantae Salibair whoanswers all of your burning outdoor
questions. And lastly, we dowant to hear from you. Email us@myrockblademail.com
reach out on LinkedIn or youcan search us up. We're just rock
fight on LinkedIn or head toInstagram where we are. RockfightCo.
(01:28):
Send us a message. Let's getinto today's episode. You know the
Rock Fight Crew and I haveregular production meetings and kind
of running email and textthreads that we all respond to on
a daily basis. We'reconstantly talking about what to
feature on the show andquestioning the right and wrong topics
that we want to dig into everyweek. And in a year of so much uncertainty,
thanks to tariffs and otherforces outside the control of our
(01:51):
brands and retailers, trailrunning has become one of the topics
we talk about the most, andone that usually brings with it something
positive or at leastinteresting to highlight. Even if
we feel like maybe we'retalking about it a little too much.
It just, it gets, it's allwe're talking about lately, but it's
the news of what's happeningright now. And the funny thing is
about that is that trailrunning isn't new. I mean, go back
(02:13):
and look at the footwearbrands that got the most attention
in the early 2000s. You'llfind brands like Montreal and Innovate.
You'd also see the original XAPro from Salomon, an attempt by Vasque
back then to make trailrunners. My first outdoor interaction
with Timberland, a brand whereI would eventually work, was when
I was working at EMS in thelate 90s and we sold their Mountain
Athletic line. But it wouldn'tbe until the Born to Run era and
(02:36):
rise of ultramarathons in the2010 range that trail running would
start to take on its moremodern form. And there were plenty
of brands to mention thathelped this transition, but the most
obvious ones are Hoka, Altraand also Topo Athletic. So Topo launched
around the same time as thoseother brands. But while Altra and
Hoka quickly found theircustomer base, the outcome wasn't
(02:56):
quite as certain for Topo.They built the reputation of great
product over the ensuingdecade by showing up at specialty
retail and forming an identitybased on their founder and namesake,
Tony Post. Fast forward totoday and the Topo surge is happening.
Topo routinely gets praisedfor the quality of its products and
carries a cool factor thatsome of the other now big trail running
brands used to have. But itgets hard to maintain that cool factor
(03:20):
when you've attracted theeveryday mall walking crowd. So I
was interested in getting achance to chat with Tony and find
out what the journey has beenlike over the past decade and a half
and fortunately he agreed tosit down with me, Comerford and producer
Dave at GOA Connect in KansasCity a couple of weeks back. And
today, dear listeners, you getto hear that conversation, which
is coming up next. So welcomeback to the Rock Flight, where today
(03:42):
we get an insider look at thebooming trail running market with
Topo Athletic founder TonyPost. Fjallraven isn't here to conquer
mountains, tame rivers, orbeat the weather. We are here to
go slowly, to tread carefully,and to cherish the visit. For us,
the outdoor experience hasnever been a race to victory. It's
an ongoing journey to createequipment and memories that last
(04:03):
for generations to come. Ourmission is to inspire more people
to move with nature, and we dothis by developing durable and functional
equipment that never goes outof fashion. What we really want is
to make it easier for peopleto enjoy spending time in nature
on nature's terms. This is ourpassion. So let's Use our vast experience
and competence to help morepeople feel at home in nature. Because
(04:23):
when they do, they will takegreater care of it. Get started on
your Fjallraven journey byheading to fjallraven.com today.
As the air cools and thetrails beck and Lemz is ready to
move with you. Lemz has newshoes like the Trailblazer Mid, the
mighty Trail Thrasher, and theinsulated Breck boot. Get your Lem's
boots to get ready for theseason ahead. And attention outdoor
(04:46):
retailers. Are you going to beheading to the running event and
switch back? Well, then youcan see all of the styles I just
told you about, as well ascheck out Lem's new running shoes.
Also, Lemz recently expandedtheir wholesale sales team. Want
to meet with your new localrep? We'll send an email to colo
c o l o emsshoes.com and justmake sure you told them that the
Rock fight sent you LEMs whereless equals more rock fighters. We
(05:09):
all know that the Rock Fightis the voice of the outdoor industry,
and as such, I'd like tointroduce a new brand just hitting
the outdoor scene. Everyone,meet Trovoca. Trovoca empowers outdoor
enthusiasts and adventurerswith elegantly rugged products that
enhance every journey from thebackcountry to the backyard. With
a lineup of gorgeouslydesigned e coolers, power stations,
and camp kitchen products,Travoca crafts premium outdoor gear
(05:32):
that empowers you to bring theamenities of home without compromising
on style or performance. Andhey, retailers want to learn more
about bringing Trovoca intoyour shop? Well, find them@travoca.com
or message them on LinkedIn,which is travoca USA. All right,
well, we're here today withConnect with Tony Post, the CEO and
founder of Topo Athletic. And,Tony, we wanted to bring you in because
(05:54):
I'm not sure if you've heard,but there's this new thing. It's
all the rage. It's calledtrail running. It's happening. Do
you know anything about it?
I know a little about trailrunning, I guess. Yeah.
Is it kind of weird? I mean,you're 13 years into this Topo journey.
I mean, like, how's it going?Especially when, like, running is
kind of like having thisincredible moment.
Yeah, it is fun. It's. I mean,I love. I love this show. I love
(06:17):
the people who attend thisshow. It's. I, you know, I just have
a passion for this space inthe business. I grew up in Colorado
as a lot of people know. And Icame to running kind of late in my,
you know, athletic career, Iguess in my late teens and. But ran
(06:37):
in college and then ran aftercollege for a bit. But my first real
heavy exposure to trailrunning, since we're talking about
trail running stories. Yeah.Was with the Leadville Trail 100.
So I worked for a company andconvinced them that we needed to
sponsor the Leadville Trail100 back in the early 1990s. And
(06:59):
it was just, it was just somuch fun and such a great education
and learning experience. Andat that time, you know, not that
many people were running 100mile trail races. And so it was really
kind of a crazy thing. Peoplewould say, totally.
So you're. Are we two yearsnow post DSW?
(07:19):
We are, yes. Post DBi, it'llbe three years in December. That's
right. And so I know when,when I sold. So we still own 20%
of the company, but ourbusiness was growing really rapidly
and we needed more capital. Sowe needed to either go to private
equity or to a strategicinvestor. We had a lot of interest
(07:43):
from a lot of differentpeople. But dbi, which is the parent
company of DSW Store, said,even though we want to be the majority
shareholder, we're going tolet you control the company. So they
structured the agreement in away that allowed us to make all the
strategic decisions in thecompany because of course, the first
one people said, oh, does thismean you're going to be in DSW stores?
(08:04):
Right, right. The mediaconnecting those dots.
So, you know, and a lot of ourcompetitors sell in DSW stores, as
you guys know. But we've noteven sold a closeout. So we're really
true to the original strategyof the brand, is to be more specialty
focused. It hasn't been aboutmaking it as big as you can, as fast
as you can, but trying to stayand build something authentic that
(08:27):
can last a long time.
So you can't predict anything.But when you kind of look back over
the 13 years, are you kind ofwhere you think you would hope to
be now? Is it, you know, whenyou founded the brand?
I, you know, I don't think Ithought more than two or three years
out. And in those early years,as you guys know, sometimes you're
just worried about making sureyou have money to make payroll so
(08:48):
you don't lose your people andpay the rent. And so, you know, you
kind of live year to year inthe beginning. It's nice to have
a vision for where you want toend up. We had a sense of the values
that we wanted to create forthe brand and the types of products
we wanted to make. But I thinkit got better and better. And for
me, it's because the smartestthing I did was I chose really good
(09:11):
people to work with. And so webrought on great people. And at the
end of the day, that's what'sgoing to make you succeed, or unfortunately
maybe not succeed. So I wasvery lucky in that way.
To those that haven't seen theresults, you've just. Sales have
been just crazy this year tothe point where it sounds like you
(09:32):
could have sold even more ifyou had more product.
Yeah, we, we've had a good fewyears. Excuse me. We, we grew, I
think, 70% in 20, 24, 7 0.
Wow.
We're up about 52%, I think,this year. But you're right, if we
would have had more productnow. The biggest challenge this year,
(09:52):
of course, were the tariffs.
Of course.
And when the tariffs got to be145% coming out of China, of course,
that wasn't helpful. No, thatwasn't helpful. I mean, and we have
great factories there. We havegreat factories in Vietnam too. But
we had to move a lot ofproduction from China to Vietnam.
(10:13):
And so that was a challengeand it was hard to keep up. But our
team there did a phenomenaljob. There's a lot to it. Sourcing
all the materials, movingmolds, getting factories to be approved
and pass certain standards,going through the FIT trial process.
It can be really extensive.And the thing I didn't want is I
(10:34):
didn't want anybody to feellike, oh, you know, topos don't fit
like they used to or they'renot as durable. So you almost have
to have higher standards whenyou make some kind of a transition
like this. But I feel goodabout it. We're really well positioned
now for the future.
That's great. And just so thatour listeners have a sense of scale,
what sort of 12 month run rateare you at right now from a volume
(10:56):
perspective?
So we don't really usuallytalk about volume, but I would say
that just to give you a senseof it, Topo sells over a million
per year. So that could, youknow, kind of help you to understand
a little bit. We sell alsooutside the US So we sell in another.
I think we're up to like 25countries now outside the US so and
(11:18):
that helps. And that's alsohelped us to stay, you know, continue
to manufacture in China too,because we didn't want to give it
up completely. The Goal is toremain nimble and to be able to make
things that you can't tell orcare where they came from. You're
buying topo, that's the mainthing. So my expectation always is
that it's got to fit, feel,work like a topo, regardless of where
(11:40):
it's made.
So like we were saying at thebeginning, trail running, running
in general is kind of havingthis sort of. It's becoming like
the it category of the momentright now. I mean, and you mentioned
sort of the acceleration orthe growth in terms of the amount
of shoes you're selling thatyou could sell more if you had more
shoes. What do you attributethat demand to, like what's happening
in run?
(12:00):
Well, I think it's a coupledifferent things. I do think that,
you know, it's interesting.I've seen kind of a resurgence in
run among younger people. Sofor the last, and I wouldn't have
said that maybe five yearsago, so it's kind of more in the
last few years and it's becomea social activity. And so we see
(12:20):
a lot of that. You know, I goto some of these trail run demo events
that we'll do, or roadrun demofor that matter too. And sometimes
there'll be a pub crawl orsomething afterward. And it's just
really cool to see, you know,more people in there. I'm not saying
super young, but in their 20s,early 30s, all kind of getting involved
in the sport. It's not just abunch of old, old men like me anymore.
(12:44):
It's, you know, it's. I thinkit makes it more fun, more interesting
for everybody.
So when you think about when,when you founded the brand and you've
had it famously coming off ofyour days at Bibram and the whole
five finger boom and thencoming out of 2010s and the kind
of the born to run thing andeverything, it's kind of became like
Hoka Ultra Topo, right? Yeah,Hoka kind of a little bit more traditional,
(13:04):
really grew and kind of withinthe running community, Ultra kind
of almost built its brand onthe back of through hikers in a lot
of ways. Right? A lot of likethat community kind of. Maybe not
from a volume standpoint, butfrom a reputation standpoint.
We.
When you look at where Topo isand kind of like how you kind of
cross over in thosecategories, I mean, where. What's
more important to you rightnow is it, is it run specialty, is
it outdoor specialty? Is itkind of a mix of both?
I think it's really a Mix ofboth, you know, Safe answer, Tony,
(13:27):
but it would be very, youknow, we have more road running distribution
in the United States, butprobably, you know, I'm always going
to be a little bit partial tothe trail consumer. You know, that's
kind of been part of mybackground also. I would say in Europe
and possibly in the Far east,we have a stronger trail business
(13:50):
than we do a road business.So, you know, it's. The goal is always
to keep it balanced and justto make great shoes, whether it's
road trail. In the beginning,when we started, we also made shoes
for Jim. We kind of put thaton hold for a little while. Doesn't
mean we won't go back to it ordo it, but there was only so much
we could handle.
(14:10):
Did you just announce that thesplit toes coming back?
I didn't say that. I stillhave, I still have some emotional
scarring from those days.
It was a cool idea.
Yeah, I loved it and Iactually really liked the shoes.
But I think there are, youknow, there are bigger fish for,
for us to fry these days rightnow. But you never know. I mean,
I still think a shoe like thathas a purpose and a meaning.
(14:33):
So obviously you're doing verywell in wholesale run specialty,
outdoor specialty. Where isdirect sales? How do you see direct
sales for your brand and whereit fits within your strategic framework?
So that's one of the thingsI'm really proud of. And I think
you guys interview a lot ofdifferent people and I don't think
there are too many people thatcan say this, but in the 12 years
(14:54):
or just over 12 years thatTopo has been in the marketplace,
we have never once run a saleon our website in 12 years to never
run a sale. We're always fullprice when our dealers are granted
their off map periods so thatthey can clear goods were full price.
We do have discontinuedmerchandise on the website, but the
(15:16):
website is there, you know,for people who, you know, maybe they
don't have a Topo dealer intheir area. That was really the purpose
in the beginning. And so itwasn't, it was never designed to
compete with our wholesalepartners. And I think our job is
to tell a story, make sure weoffer products, but it's not, it's
(15:40):
not really considered a keysource of revenue for the company.
Want to ask you about yourcolor sophistication because that
seems to be something that hasbecome, you know, I'm not saying
if it's an improvement, ifit's just been an area of focus for
you, but it Seems like thecolors of the shoes really seem like
it's an important part.
It only took us 13 years, so Idon't know what the.
Well, we speak about that,right? Because that's something where
(16:00):
it's. There's a. It's anuanced thing because, you see, some
brands will, like, think, oh,let's just throw colors at it. And
it's like, whoa, I see yourshoes, but I don't know if I really
want to see your shoes and theones that kind of do it the right
way. It's like, it reallyspeaks to the consumer.
Yeah, I would say that we'vejust gotten better and better at
product in general. So that'salways. The goal is to improve every
season. And we have. We have areally great team of people. The
(16:24):
person who leads our productgroup now is Russ Stevens. He deserves
a lot of credit here. He's.
Is he the guy we refused tointerview today?
Yes, he's over sobbing in thecorner somewhere.
He came over with Tony.Listeners, it's fine. We'll interview
Russ some other day.
He's only 31, so you'll havemany more days to be able to.
Oh, he's a sensitive soul.
(16:46):
But in any event, you know, Ithink, you know, we do a lot of work
with. And we have a very youngteam, so we have a lot of people
in their 20s and 30s. We onlyhave a few people, you know, over
40 years old in the wholecompany. And I think, you know, we
encourage everybody to bereally in touch with the market and
what's going on and. And tospeak from the heart about things
(17:09):
that they love. And all ofthat goes into the product, whether
it's the types of platforms webuild, the colors that we select,
how we design product. I'mreally proud of how we've evolved,
I guess, as a company in that way.
So there's a couple morequestions for me. So, one, when you
look at those more establishedcompetitors, the Ultras and the Hokas,
(17:30):
who are you impressed by?Who's done the best job of you? Think
of those. Those kind of theones you came up with.
Yeah, they're all. It's. It'sso amazing to see, you know, because
I think going back to myVibram days, I remember when Hoka
was this little, you know, twoperson, you know, 10 by 10 booth
at outdoor retailer and. Andtalking to those guys, and then me
(17:54):
kind of half jokingly sayingto the owners of Vibram, be kind
of cool since we have Vibram,if we Acquired Hoka and then we'd
have the two extremes. Ofcourse, Vibram didn't want to acquire
a footwear brand because theydidn't want to compete with their
sole business customers, whichI really respected.
Sure.
I mean, they're all reallyterrific competitors. But I do tip
(18:15):
my hat to Hoka because I thinkthey've really built something that
I think has a lasting place inthe market. But that doesn't mean,
I think, what we bringdifferent. You know, we don't ever
try to go head to head withany one specific thing. We try to
(18:36):
stay authentic and true to whowe are. I think people come to Topo
because they love the fitsensation first, then they might
have. Some people wantsomething with a little less platform,
some people want somethingwith a little more. We give them
choices after that. And so,you know, we have to stay in our
lane and just keep doing whatwe do really well.
(18:59):
A few weeks ago, we did a kindof deep dive of three up and coming
brands. And we looked at itbecause Dave is a brand background,
Owens, a retail background. Ihad a chance to try these shoes.
So we talked about Speedland,Norda and Mount To Coast. So of these
sort of up and comers, and notjust those three, but like all of
the up and comers of whichthere are many right now, who has
your attention?
I mean, they're all. Again, Iknow this sounds like a safe answer.
(19:21):
Got to pick one, Tony.
I know.
Got to pick one.
Okay, if I have to pick one,I'll pick one. I mean, I think I'll
take them in stages. When Ifirst tried the Speedland shoes a
few years ago, I thought,these are really phenomenal shoes.
I hand it to those guys andbeing fearless, because I don't remember
what the first shoes cost, butthey were, you know, they are not
(19:43):
times as expensive as anybodyelse, but they executed and they
did a great job. And thenNorda, you know, I think they've
done also a really cool job. Ilove their attention to durability
and, you know, using premiumingredients. That's something we
really take to heart too. Youknow, I think we're one of the only
(20:03):
companies out there that's100% Vibram on our trail shoes. So,
you know, we always admirewhen people use quality ingredients
like that. And Mounted coastis definitely a company that's coming
up and building a following.
Out of nowhere, seeminglyRight. A year ago, just, just all
of a sudden they're here.
Yeah, but I think that's, youknow, it's hard to enter this business.
(20:26):
I mean, even though all ofthese companies seem to come in and
have come up, it's a reallydifficult entry. It's expensive,
you know, to open the toolingand the equipment to do all of this,
to build a business, to buildinventory, to service. All of these
things are costly. So I admireall these guys. It's hard to be an
(20:47):
entrepreneur in this.
I feel like, though, we aresort of at this golden age of trail
running. On that episode, Iactually talked about how it feels
like snowboarding did back inthe. I guess it was at the 90s, the
late 80s, early 90s, wherethere were so many snowboard brands.
(21:08):
Right. And then over time,Burton snapped up a few, and a few
others went away, and nowwe're kind of back down to maybe
a. A smaller set of players.Why do you think 10 years from now,
Topo is going to be one ofthose three or four major brands
that is still at the core ofthe industry?
(21:30):
Well, I think the mostimportant thing that we can do is
to pay attention to the needsof our customers. If we don't make
products that deliver a betterexperience, Topo won't be around.
So it's always about, itdoesn't matter what your price point
is or, you know, I mean, allthose things, of course they matter
in some ways, but at the endof the day, it's about, do you make
(21:51):
a product that delivers abetter experience? Can you make improvements
in this category that peopleappreciate and want to pay for? And
that's. That's a value that wehave to keep. And if we keep that
value, Topo will be around andsuccessful for a long time. It's
an exciting industry. You haveto have people that have a passion
(22:13):
for the space. You know, it'shard if you don't have a passion
to succeed in this business.So you really have to have a love
for it. You have to have alove for running and the sport, but
also an appreciation forpeople who are walking, hiking, people
who are just trying to stayfit and healthy. You know, as I age,
I realize how important thesethings are. I feel lucky to have
(22:36):
spent a lifetime in this spacebecause I think just personally,
it's helped me to live better.And if we can do that, if we can
deliver a better experience, abetter life for people, we'll thrive
and succeed, I'm sure.
So, last question. What'ssomething about Topo that most people
don't know?
(22:56):
Well, that's a good question.You know, I'm always amazed when
people say, you Know, I saytopo was a nickname I had in college,
and they say, oh, Topo, that'syou. Yeah. So I went to a reunion.
I guess I can say this. I wentto my 50th high school reunion, and
I was talking to the husbandof a woman that I knew in high school,
(23:20):
and I was saying I was in theshoe industry or in the shoe business,
and he's like, oh, man, I justfound this. And he went on to tell
me this whole thing aboutTopo, and I just kind of let him
run on for a little bit, youknow, and it was so fun to be able
to do it. And then. And then,of course, eventually I had to tell
him. And they were. They were,you know, they were really happy.
But I guess it would have beena little weird if you put, like,
(23:42):
a picture of your face onevery shoe, like, it's me, you know?
Yeah, no, it was. So that's afun little story. Anyway.
Well, Tony, thank you so muchfor spending a few minutes with us,
and appreciate it very much.
Yeah, thanks, guys. Iappreciate what you do, too. Really
enjoy your interviews. I thinkyou bring a lot of value to the industry,
and I think you keep itentertaining, which is so, you know,
that's what makes it easy tolisten to often. So well done.
(24:05):
Appreciate that. Thanks, Tony.All right, it's time for the parting
shot presented by Garage GrownGear. Make sure to head over to GarageGrowingear.com
and check out everything thatis new over there. Just click when
you get there. There's alittle. Little, like, navigation
bar, and you'll see a littleflaming new button. Check that out.
(24:26):
I think they add things, like,seemingly every day. Check it out.
There's always so much coolstuff over on garagegrowngear.com
and we love their partnershiphere on the Rock flight. Thank you
to Lloyd and Maggie andeverybody else over there. Party
shot today. Quick partingshot. Maybe not so quick. I don't
know. We'll see how this goes.But it's for hoka, all right. Because
I've been testing a ton oftrail running and gravel shoes lately,
(24:48):
and most of the models I'vetried that have had that maximal
style midsole that, you know,HOKA is popularized. It just makes
for a plodding, not funexperience. Now, when I was back
at Timberland back in 2006, welaunched Go Light footwear, which
was a trail running specificline of shoes that had various technologies
that eventually would becomemainstream. So, like, if you think
that Altra and Topo were thefirst trail running brands to deploy
(25:10):
a foot shaped toe box, you'dbe wrong. We did that with Go Light
four years before those otherbrands existed. One other technology
that Go Light used was what wecalled soft against the ground technology.
In short, this was hoka beforehoka. The idea is to lessen impact
and smooth out the trail infront of you through midsole and
outsole tech. And hasdefinitely since been refined, most
(25:32):
notably by hoka. In myexperience trying hoka, I think they
nailed that sort of maximalexperience. But aside from the Mount
to Coast H1S, any other modelI've tried recently, anyway, that
deploys a soft, thick midsole,well, it feels like it's just sapping
the energy from my body as I'mhiking or running in them. Now, I
don't know what the secretsauce is to having a snappy, energetic
(25:55):
and thick midsole, but itseems like a lot of brands when they're
designing these shoes, justthink that they can win over consumers
with a cushy midsole that getsthe win based on out of the box comfort
and not through legitperformance. And I understand that
if you're, if you're somebody,you're sitting in a store and you're
putting it on and there's animmediate, ooh, cushy feeling, but
when you go out in them, itjust feels like you're wearing sponges
(26:18):
on your feet. So even thoughthey probably still do it the best,
my parting shot is for hoka,because God damn it, hoka, you popularized
this whole thing. And whileI'd like to throw a rock at Golay
Footwear for pioneering theidea, they've been dead since 2008.
So, Hoka, you get this rock.Actually, maybe I should take that
back because you're doing itthe best. I don't know. Bottom line
is, all of these other peoplewho are trying to mimic what HOKA
does, a lot of you aren'tpulling it off. And that's my parting
(26:41):
shot. All right, that's theshow for today. Big thanks to my
guest, Tony Post. Thank you,Tony, for sitting down with us. The
Rock Fight's a production ofRock Fight llc. I'm Colin True. This
episode was produced byproducer Dave. Thanks for listening.
And here to take us out likehe always is is Kristen Makes with
the Rock Fight Fight song.We'll see you next time, Rock Fighters.
(27:01):
Rock Fight. Rock Fight. RockFight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock
Fight. Welcome to the RockFight. Where we speak our truth,
slay sacred cows, andsometimes other agree to disagree.
We talk about human poweredoutdoor activities and big bites
(27:23):
about topics that we findinteresting like pop culture, music,
the latest movie reviews,ideas that aim for the head. This
is where we speak our truth.This is where we speak our truth.
Rock fight, Rock fight, Rockfight? Welcome to the rock fight,
Rock fight, Rock fight?Welcome to the rock fight Rock light
(27:48):
Rock fight Rock light, Rockfight, Rock fight? Welcome to the
rock fight Rock fight Rockfight, Rock fight.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.