July 21, 2025 • 48 mins
In this episode of the Beyond the Game podcast, we connect with Karl Darden, a US Naval Academy graduate, 20-year veteran, former helicopter pilot, and dedicated Navy sports podcaster.
• Naval Academy graduate (Class of '84) with 9 years active duty as a helicopter pilot and 11 years in the reserves
• Started Navy Sports Nation blog during COVID in 2020, followed by the Navy Sports Central podcast
• Focuses on highlighting athletes across all Navy sports, not just revenue-producing programs
• Navy athletes balance 17-20 credit hours per semester with military duties while competing at Division I level
• Women's lacrosse upset over undefeated Loyola stands as his top Navy sports moment of the past season
• The Army-Navy rivalry represents "the most storied rivalry in college athletics" due to its deeper meaning
• Navy football finished 10-3 last season with wins over Army and Oklahoma in their bowl game
• Wrestling, rowing, women's lacrosse, swimming, and tennis are among the underappreciated Navy sports with significant achievements
• Athletic expectations at Navy focus on beating service academy rivals, winning the Commander-in-Chief's Trophy, and bowl appearances
Subscribe to the Beyond the Game podcast and follow Rocky on social media to catch upcoming episodes, including the 46 Power Podcast dedicated to football at all levels.
Thank you for listening!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rocky (00:44):
Thank you Good evening.
(01:06):
Welcome to the Rock Pile heretonight.
Happy to be back behind the micwith another episode of the
Beyond the Game podcast tonightwith Carl Darden.
We'll chat with him in just alittle bit.
He's a graduate of the US NavalAcademy.
He's a 20-year veteran formerhelicopter pilot and a chronic
Navy sports fan.
We're going to talk about hispodcast, the Navy sports nation,
which is the official site forall Navy sports.
(01:29):
So we'll talk to him in alittle bit.
If you're just tuning in andmake sure to give me a subscribe
on YouTube, follow me onFacebook, youtube, linkedin,
twitter, wherever you'refollowing me on social media.
If you have any questions forthe show tonight, just put them
in the comment box.
I'll try to pull over as manyas I can, excited to bring back
the 46 Power Podcast.
We'll be talking nothing butcollege football, nfl football,
(01:51):
high school football and allfootball.
I'll debut that episode Morethan likely I'll let you know
this week.
We're looking at next Mondaynight as well, so a lot going on
.
The Mohawk Valley Sports Watchwill be back on the weekend with
Coach Medesis, coach Pags andthe Statman.
So a lot going on here on theRock Pile.
So, without further ado, let'sbring on Carl.
(02:13):
Let me just pull him up here.
Let me just fix you, carl, letme get my screens up here.
Let me move you here and thereyou are.
How are you, my friend?
All right, good, good are.
How are you, my friend?
Good, good.
Rocky, how are you doing?
I'm doing good.
I'm really excited for thisshow and I appreciate you
working with me on the schedule.
I know we were supposed to golast week, so I appreciate you
(02:34):
working with me to get thisthing going here tonight.
Karl (02:36):
No, that's not a problem.
Happy to do it.
Rocky (02:39):
So, carl, let's talk a little bit about your background
.
First, as I was just saying, a20-year veteran of the US Naval
Academy, former helicopter pilot, chronic Navy sports fan.
And then I want to get into howyou started the Navy sports
podcast.
Give us a little intro onyourself.
Karl (02:55):
Okay, thanks.
Yeah, I graduated from Navywith a class of 84.
Ended up basically gettingexposed to the Naval Academy
when I was a freshman in highschool and kind of followed the
route to get admitted.
So everything worked out there,went to flight school.
As you mentioned, I was ahelicopter pilot and I was on
active duty for nine years andflew a couple of different
(03:19):
platforms.
The last two and a half yearswas the most fun, probably
because I was an instructor downin Pensacola, florida, and
teaching the students to fly theH-57 Jet Ranger.
They phased that out a littlewhile ago I'd say about 10 years
ago and they got a newer modelnow.
But it was a really, reallygood time.
It was probably the most funI've ever had in the Navy.
(03:39):
And then, after nine years, Idecided to dip my toe into the
corporate world.
I did stay in the reserves,though, so I did the 11 years in
the reserves for the total of20.
I didn't fly in the reserves, Iwas mostly attached to a unit
that was working with theirtraffic controllers off
different MFib ships and stufflike that, but still a really
good time.
Spent 19 years with JohnsonJohnson and finished that time
(04:03):
up in 2016.
And I was doing an energyconsulting business for a little
while and then I just basicallyam retired now.
I retired, semi-retired aboutfour years ago, fully retired,
basically two years ago.
So I ended up starting thispodcast about four years ago and
(04:24):
it was off the heels of theblog that I began in 2020 during
COVID.
The blog was called Navy SportsNation and then the podcast
just seemed to be a naturalfollow on from that.
We did it.
A year later it's called NavySports Central, which is the
official podcast of the NavySports Nation.
I know it's really not goodmarketing to use two different
(04:45):
names for a podcast and a blog,but what the heck?
I don't claim to be a marketingexpert or anything like that,
but anyway.
So, yeah, I've been doing itfor four years and just really a
lot of fun.
It's strictly a hobby.
I don't do it for money oranything like that.
I just love talking about theNaval Academy athletes, not just
in the revenue producing sportslike football and basketball,
(05:08):
but there are some incredibleathletes on these sports that
just kind of fly below the radarand I like to highlight those
guys and those girls as well,and those young men and women.
Might you know, at any time Ican.
So that's what I do for fun and, like I said, four years and
still going strong.
Rocky (05:26):
So when I was in high school, which was many, many,
many years ago, I was an optionquarterback and, uh, my mom and
dad I would say more of my momthan my father I was recruited
by Navy, I was recruited by airforce, I was recruited by army
because, of course, the optionquarterback.
My mom threw a lot of thoseletters out because my mom
didn't want me to go intoservice, but when I look back
(05:47):
now at my high school career, Iwould have been the perfect fit
to go play at any of the academyschools, just because of,
obviously, the option game nowtoday.
But it seems like you know,nowadays when you look at the
NIL and you look at recruiting,it's so much different, right,
because when you sign up and yougo play at one of these
(06:08):
academies and we can focus onNavy here is when you graduate,
right, you have to go into theservice, right?
That's part of the commitment.
Karl (06:17):
Yes, yes, that is, and sometimes it varies a little bit
, you know, depending on whatadministration is in.
They might make some allowancesif somebody gets drafted or
something like that.
Like, for instance, this yearwe had a defensive back named
Rayon Lane who was a terrificsafety and he's also a special
teams player and he was I can'tremember if he got, I think he
(06:40):
did get drafted.
Either that or he's anundrafted free agent signed by,
I believe, the JacksonvilleJaguars, and I think they're
trying to work something outwith him where they're saying
hey, look, go ahead and takeyour shot.
If you make it, we'll justdefer your service time and you
can do it later.
Or if it doesn't work out, youcan just go right back into the
Marine Corps or the Navy.
Most of the football playerstend to go Marine Corps and Ray
(07:02):
may have done that, he might beNavy, I don't know.
But yeah, it really kind ofdepends.
But you're right, it typicallyit's at least a two-year
commitment.
Even even way back when DavidRobinson graduated and he was
drafted by the San Antonio Spurs, he he did two years as a civil
in the civil engineering corpsbefore he, before they released
him to play NBA ball full-time.
Rocky (07:23):
So and I know you talk about some of the non.
You know the football,basketball sports.
There's a lot of good sports atNavy.
What have been some of the funsports and non-football related
in basketball that you'vecovered and you've talked about?
Karl (07:37):
Well, I tell you what and these are the ones that tend to
do a little bit better on mypodcast, because you don't hear
from them, you don't hear aboutthem all that much.
So what ends up happening is,especially if I have a guest on
right, we'll do the podcast andeverything and they'll send it
out to their folks.
And next thing, you know, likethe rowing is a great example,
all right, I've got a couple ofclassmates who, when we were
(07:59):
seniors, they were on theheavyweight rowing team that won
the national championship and Iinterviewed them basically it
was back in January, and one ofthem was the team captain and
the other guy occupied thestroke seat, which is like the
seat that establishes the pacefor the entire boat we had.
We must've talked for an hourand 40 minutes, right, and when
(08:22):
that one hit, you know, when Ireleased that one, they sent it
out to all their rowing friendsand there's this really tight
rowing community and it just,you know, kind of blew up.
So I enjoy talking about rowing.
I got a rowing machine myselfand I always, you know, ask
people for tips and stuff on,you know, different workouts and
everything.
So rowing is one, women'slacrosse is another one and that
(08:46):
was one that I've had the sameOne of my guests that I like to
bring back.
She played at Navy when it wasstill a club sport.
Now it was a national levelclub sport because they won a
couple of national championshipson that stage, but it didn't
become a varsity sport at Navyuntil 2007.
But she is really, reallyknowledgeable.
(09:08):
In fact, she's a high schoollacrosse coach, so whenever
something big happens withwomen's lacrosse, I always
invite her on.
In fact, my very last podcast Iwas counting down the top 10
most memorable moments in Navysports for this sports season
and the number one moment Iselected was when Navy women's
lacrosse beat Loyola to qualifyfor the NCAA tournament.
(09:31):
Because Loyola is a monsterprogram in women's lacrosse in
the Patriot League and they'vebeen in the league basically 11
years and they have not lost asingle regular season conference
game ever.
They're 93 and 0 and the onlyteam that's beaten them during
that whole time they've been inthe league has been navy, but
it's always been in the patriotleague tournament or in the ncaa
(09:54):
tournament.
So this year they beat them inovertime to qualify.
Loyola also made it to thetournament as well, just as an
at-large, but it was quite anexciting game.
It it was televised on CBSSports Network and it was just
fantastic.
So yeah, rowing, women'slacrosse, some of the others
I've done, you know, men's andwomen's swimming is another one
I'd like to highlight as much asI can.
(10:15):
The women's tennis program isbig.
Let's see what are some of theother.
Those are probably the big ones.
I've talked about the rifleteam as well.
That's actually a co-ed varsitysport and, um, you know a few
others, but yeah, those, thoseones that, uh, that fly below
the radar, tend to be prettypopular.
Rocky (10:35):
Yeah, I can relate to that because I mean I I cover
the big sports, I cover football, basketball and baseball, but
locally, I've covered fieldhockey, I've covered soccer,
I've covered some of the, I'vecovered bowling and some other
sports as well.
Lacrosse, I think, has gottenbigger and bigger.
I'm close to Syracuse, soSyracuse lacrosse is really big
this way.
(10:55):
And I know Navy the men's havea fantastic lacrosse team too.
You just kind of touched onthis with some of the sports
that you've highlighted.
Has there been a game, a biggame that you've covered with
Navy that stands out to you inany of the podcasts that you've
done?
Karl (11:11):
Well, certainly this last one, with the women's team
beating Loyola, was huge, and Ithink that the reason that was
so big again, I already spoke toLoyola's record, but I think
what really added to thestoryline was the last couple of
times that Navy has playedLoyola.
In last year's Patriot LeagueChampionship game they lost in
(11:31):
overtime.
It was just such a tough defeatbecause they were battling with
them just all the way down tothe end.
The score was tight at the endof regulation and then Loyola
was know, put one pass, a goalieand that was it.
And then in the regular seasonthis year they played them in
Annapolis.
So I'm thinking, okay, this is,this is where I think they can
take them down during theregular season.
(11:53):
And they lost in doubleovertime.
It was.
It was just so painful.
So this championship game thatwas just played, you know, a
couple of months ago, that put areally huge spotlight on it and
I think that, at least inrecent memory, if you're talking
about the sports that aren'tthe real huge ones in terms of
(12:15):
generating the money, that wasprobably the biggest one.
Talking about some other sportslike, say, on the men's side,
probably wrestling is one thatthey took down Lehigh's got a
really big program in the leagueand they beat Lehigh.
(12:36):
And this is when Navy'swrestling coach.
It was just like in his firstyear.
As a matter of fact, this guy'sname is Kerry Collat.
Just a monster career incollege and he wrestled at.
He ended up graduating from asmall school in pennsylvania, uh
, but this guy is the perfectcoach for for navy wrestling and
he's just got this attitudethat, um, you know you don't
(12:58):
need all the fancy facilitiesand all that kind of stuff.
He actually did.
He had a podcast.
It would have pretty bigfollowing of his own and, uh, he
, uh, he did this piece one timewhen, when he was, uh, still
wrestling, they went down toCuba to wrestle their guys and
Cuba has really, really goodwrestling program and you look
in their gyms and it looks likeyou know one of these boxing
(13:18):
gyms back from like the 1950s.
You know rust on all theweights.
You know mats that have beenaround forever 1950s.
You know rust on all theweights, you know mats that have
been around forever, but theseguys are just first grade
wrestlers and that you know, hispoint being that, look,
facilities are great, but whatit comes down to is a guy on the
mat, you know, and that's howhe trains his wrestlers, that's
how that's a culture he'sestablished at Navy and so, yeah
(13:41):
, when they beat Lehigh and notjust beat him they beat him
pretty handily.
His first year as coach, thatwas a really big deal.
Rocky (13:51):
Carl, one of the things everybody always talks about,
and even some of the announcerson TV or anytime you listen and
watch any of the academy schools.
They talk about the athleteitself and the difference
between an athlete at theacademy and again we can focus
on Navy here or, let's say, anathlete out of Michigan or Ohio
State, and they always talkabout you don't ever want to
play at academy school becauseof the toughness.
(14:13):
They're smart, they'redisciplined, they don't make a
lot of mistakes.
Talk to us about some of thedifference between an academy
athlete, maybe, versus some ofthose other big power five
schools.
Karl (14:23):
Yeah, that's a good point, and I think that when, when you
think about the, the type ofrecruit that comes in, uh, this
is all about spotting potential,right, because I mean, navy is
never going to get a five-starathlete, they're probably never
going to get a four-star athlete.
They can get a three-starathlete and develop them to a
(14:43):
four probably.
It's happened before and I'llcite a couple of examples but
yeah, they're looking for thatstrong two-star, really good
three-star athlete.
That's just got you know.
First of all, they got to beable to understand what the
mission of the academy is isbasically to train Naval and
Marine Corps officers.
Right, and certainly the answerthat I hear from most of the
(15:06):
football players when they'reinterviewed and say, hey, well,
why did you come to Navy?
And they say, well, you know, Iwanted to serve my country but
I still wanted to playcompetitive Division I football.
That is the difference.
I mean the other folks, youknow more power to them, you
know their goal is to playDivision I football and you know
more than you know, if possible, get to the NFL, when that's
(15:26):
not really what's on the NavalAcademy athletes' mind.
They just want to play good,competitive football and they'll
do whatever it takes to get onthe field and I've said this
before to other folks I'vetalked to.
When they go to the practicesand you know, playing the games
and stuff like that, that's theeasiest thing they do all week,
(15:47):
right, because of all theirother commitments.
I mean they have no joke.
20, I would say minimum 17 to18 credit hours per semester and
junior year forget it, it'sprobably going to be closer to
20.
And you have professionalcommitments that you have
besides that lectures to go toat night.
When I was there they gaveexams at night.
(16:07):
Not sure if they do thatanymore, but let's just say
you're being pulled from a bunchof different directions and the
time that they get on thepractice field is probably like
their sanctuary and they go andyou know they have their 100%
focus on what they're doing whenthey're on the field.
They have to be, otherwise, youknow, things start going
sideways.
But that's probably the maindifference.
(16:29):
These are just really strongstudent athletes that want to
compete versus other recruitsthat go to colleges and so forth
.
That may or may not finish andthat's the choice that they make
, but at the Naval Academy theyhave no choice but to finish.
You know, finish in four years,or that's basically it.
(16:52):
And the nice thing is thecoaching staff understands what
the mission is.
They understand the type ofathlete they're looking for.
A lot of coaches love coachinghere because it is a
developmental program.
It's no, it's not fishing peopleout of the transfer portal and,
you know, hoping that you getthe right mix to to make a run
at a national championship.
(17:12):
I mean no disrespect to Ohiostate, but, um, you know they
had a huge NIL budget and I willsay that the one, the one guy
that they had on their roster asa kid named Denzel Burke, who
actually, when he was in gradeschool, went to school with my
son and so we've been followinghim ever since he got there.
But he was a high schoolrecruit, started his freshman
(17:34):
year, played all the way through, stayed with Ohio State the
whole time, didn't mess with theportal, none of that stuff.
But he's an exception to therule.
These days it's just not thatway and I think when people come
to coach at Navy or when theycome to play at Navy, that's one
distraction that is not present, and I guess it isn't away from
a player standpoint, butcertainly not from the coaches.
(17:55):
I mean, they understand thatwhen they recruit a player
they're there to try and developthem as best as they can and
ultimately we've had someplayers we had our shared
players go into the transferportal, but none of the ones
that I wouldn't say there's.
There's one that did Chad Hodges.
(18:15):
He, he went into the transferport, is a linebacker and he
ended up playing a TCU and didend up playing in the national
championship game when they gotwaxed by a who is it?
Was it Georgia that beat TCUthat badly that year?
I can't remember.
Yeah, it was pretty bad, yeah,but Chad Hodges was about the
only guy that I recall that wentto the transfer portal from
Navy and still got appreciableplaying time.
(18:39):
In fact he started, but most ofthe others they just kind of
disappear and you just never seethem again.
So, uh, I think that playersthat come to navy know that if
they want to play division onefootball, their best bet is to
stick with the program.
Rocky (18:51):
So yeah, it's funny you bring up duns albert because in
my family we're, so we're big 10family here.
My wife and I met in columbus,ohio, so she drank.
She drank the gatorade and is abig timetime Ohio State fan.
I am a Michigan fan.
I didn't think that was allowed.
It's a house divided, for sure.
(19:12):
We got the flag and everything,but we don't talk to each other
much in the fall.
She had bragging rights thisyear because they won the
national championship and I cansay we beat you the last four
years and we won it the yearbefore.
So we got that OhioState-Michigan Michigan ties
here.
But the other thing that alwayscomes up and I always find it
fascinating too and and you kindof lived it and I'm sure you've
talked to some of the athleteswhen you go to NAV you got to go
(19:35):
to class but that schedule andthat routine from what the
schedule looks like in themorning until late at night, and
then you got to factor inpractice.
Like you said, practice isprobably the easiest thing that
they'll do the entire day, butcan you outline maybe what a
typical day looks like for anathlete?
Karl (19:52):
Yeah, I mean, it's the way the day is pretty much set up.
You wake up and sometimes,depending on the time of year,
they might have some workout todo even before they go to class.
Right, it might be just a quickweight training workout or
something like that.
But you go down, you eatbreakfast.
Well, you have formation, youeat breakfast and then you have
(20:15):
four classes.
You know four class periodsbefore lunch just one, two,
three, four.
They may not have a class everysingle period, but I would say
at least three, if not all four.
And then you come back, youhave lunch at noon.
They typically eat with theirteam at noontime and then they
finish up with the afternoonclasses, which is usually.
You know two more class periodsand then you know they go to
(20:37):
the practice.
They finish up that and theyeat dinner with their team.
And then then the study hours.
Like you know, basically threehours.
You know 8 to 11 o'clock andthen after that, if they want to
keep studying, I guess they can.
But people I mean the mids takeit from me really value their
sleep.
I mean I could fall asleep atany time in any position when I
(21:01):
was there.
I did not need a rack.
I could just fall down and youknow, just sleep with that is
sitting down in a chair.
Some people just couldn't eventell that I was asleep until
they came to look, looking realclose, and saw that my eyes were
closed.
You know so.
But yeah, that's a typical day.
It just every day, every minuteis really accounted for.
There's really not a whole lotof time, especially if you're a
(21:21):
freshman.
There's not a whole lot of timeto sit back and just kind of
kick back or anything like that.
But yeah, that's basically.
And then you know they don'thave Saturday classes anymore,
but they used to.
You'd have Saturday classesjust until noon and it would be
like one, maybe two, but theydon't have that anymore.
But yeah, it's pretty jammed up.
Rocky (21:51):
There's not a whole lot of free time, given the number
of credit hours they have totake, and that's why things are
pretty much on the go the wholetime.
What's it like for you to goback?
I don't know if you get to anyof the sporting events not just
football, but it could be any ofthe sporting events at Navy.
What's it like for you, as aNavy graduate, to go back and
still be part?
Karl (22:05):
of it.
I love it.
I try to get back up in Phoenix, by the way, and I try to get
back every, you know, say, 18months or so, and that is
sometimes for the expresspurposes of seeing a game.
Like um.
A year ago, april, I went, uhbecause, uh, I just caught a
weekend where there's a lothappening Army was playing Navy
(22:26):
and women's lacrosse at home.
The Navy rugby team, which, bythe way, won a national
championship a couple of yearsago they were playing in their
first round of their playoffgame.
So I wanted to see that.
So my wife and I took the tripback and we went to the rugby
game, we went to lacrosse gameand it is great.
I will tell you that thelacrosse game was amazing
(22:47):
because there's just thousandsof people in the stands, which
was a really something forwomen's lacrosse.
I mean, you can, that sport isreally taking hold in the East
coast, uh, on the East coast,and I just really enjoyed the
atmosphere.
And to me, it's just reallycool to see a lot of you know,
so much support for some ofthese sports that, like I said,
(23:08):
typically don't get a lot ofairtime.
You know, all the time when Iwent back for my reunion back in
October.
I didn't get a chance to makeit, but one of my buddies
actually went to thecross-country meet because
they're competing against Armyin cross-country that very same
weekend.
So he was able to tell me aboutthat competing against Army and
cross country that very sameweekend so he was able to tell
(23:28):
me about that.
But that whole environment, Ithink, is just something special
, and especially being agraduate and being a part of
that.
I was not a varsity athletewhen I was in school I was too
busy trying to.
I made a business decision tomake sure I could graduate.
But it was great when I wasthere as a mid.
It's even better now,especially when you see sports
(23:51):
like football kind of reboundinga little bit after several flat
years.
Just the level of enthusiasmand the support is pretty
exciting, not just within theacademy itself but also the city
of Annapolis.
Rocky (24:01):
Well, I was just going to say.
A lot of people have told methat you know, on Saturdays, a
nice fall day there me that, uh,you know, on on saturday is a
nice fall day.
There's nothing better thanthat campus.
How special is that campus?
Karl (24:09):
it's something else.
The fall and, and, uh, theoctober is probably the best
time to visit there because yougot nice crisp weather.
Uh, it's just just fabulous.
I mean just sunshine everywhere, the leaves are turning and,
just like I said, the level ofexcitement.
This this past October, with myreunion, we were playing with
(24:31):
Charlotte.
You know Charlotte's not thebest team in the American
Conference, but we played themthe year before and just barely
squeaked by.
It was mostly defensive win, sowe didn't really know what to
expect, but the atmosphere wasjust incredible and everybody
was super excited about it.
The weather was perfect and Iwas actually doing my podcast,
kind of like an on the scenesort of thing, just interviewing
different classmates and stuff,asking them some of their
(24:53):
favorite moments in navy sports.
And, uh, you know, we blinkedand before you knew it, the
scores like 21 to nothing.
You know just a lot of reallyexciting offensive displays
there and we had one guy,deshaun Peel.
He had two pick sixes and youknow one of them, I think,
actually finished off thescoring and it went for like 84
(25:14):
yards or something like that.
So, yeah, pretty prettyexciting stuff.
Rocky (25:20):
I know a lot of teams and I have a lot of buddies that
are coaches in college footballbig-time college football that
have played against Navy and alot of them say it's so hard in
practice to simulate what thattriple option really looks like.
And it's like you get into agame and I'll never forget this.
I was living in Columbus.
Navy took Ohio State to thewire late in the fourth quarter.
(25:40):
I think Ohio State scored latein that game and Navy had a
chance and I think it was anincomplete pass at the end of
the game.
But everybody was like that wasone of the toughest games Ohio
State played all year.
And they all say the same thingwhen you see Navy or you see
Army or you see Air Force on theschedule, you better be ready
to strap it up because it'sgoing to be a full four-quarter
game.
(26:00):
It's so hard to simulate thattriple option in practice.
Karl (26:03):
You're right, it's tough to simulate that speed.
That's the trickiest part.
I know the game that you'retalking about, because Navy had
scored to close to two pointsand they were going for a
two-point conversion and it wasintercepted and it was run back.
Ohio State ended up winning byfour.
I can't remember what year itwas, but it was when Kenan
(26:29):
reynolds was, I believe, ajunior.
If it was a junior, yeah, hewas.
Yeah, I mean, he was somethingelse.
And and since then, uh, you know, the triple option basically is
still uh a part of navy's baseoffensive package.
But about two years ago well,actually it was it was a year
ago that uh navy hired a newoffensive coordinator, um, and
he came in and he brought in hisname is a uh coach chronic, and
(26:52):
he brought in the uh the hybridwing t is what they call it um,
and it was kind of a.
The wing t is a very, very oldoffense, uh, but he made so many
changes he grew up with it.
But he made so many changes hegrew up with it and he made so
many different changes andmodifications that kind of
brought it into the 21st century, so to speak, where it
(27:12):
incorporates a lot more passing.
If you go back and look at theArmy-Navy game, you'd be
surprised at how much Navy threwthe ball and it was really
quite something when you sawCoach Kwonick's game plan and
everything.
But it's still an option, right.
I mean, you still have tobasically make your reads and so
(27:33):
forth, and the idea of anoption is just to get on the
unbalanced side of the field andmake that defensive player make
a decision and once thatdecision is made, you, you need
to have one way to go.
That they haven't accounted forand it was, uh, just a
masterful game plan.
That coach chronic calledagainst army and you know,
pretty much the whole year wentlike that.
(27:54):
There's only one, one gamewhere actually two games where
we were truly embarrassed, andthat was against notre dame and
against tulane.
Notre dame, we just maybe justjust wound up in quicksand and
couldn't get themselves out.
And then Tulane I think whathappened was, well, our starting
quarterback.
He got knocked out of the gamewith some back spasms and the
(28:14):
kid that backed him up justdidn't have the same chemistry
and everything, and it was atough game.
But they finished 10-3 on theyear, which a great win over
army, which is a considered anupset because army did win the
conference and I still I stillhave that game on, I still have
that game recorded on my dvr anduh, uh.
(28:35):
And then they won their bowlgame against oklahoma, which
they had to come from behind todo that and old navy teams that
ran the option were not knownfor coming from behind, but with
this hybrid wing t it's muchmore balanced out there and, uh,
they were able to fight theirway back and end up pulling out
the win 21 to 20 and I know youmentioned that, uh, you know,
(28:55):
when you were back um or afriend of yours went to a uh
cross-country meet and they were, they were its army.
Rocky (29:02):
Again, my family, huge college football fans, and I
always say the the best game incollege football, the biggest
rivalry, is Michigan-Ohio State.
They call it the game.
A lot of people say America'sgame is Army and Navy.
Talk to us how special thatrivalry is, not just in football
but just in general at Navy.
What's it mean when you guysplay Army in any sport?
Karl (29:24):
Yeah, think.
Uh.
Well, first of all, I do wantto speak to and basically
amplifying some of your remarksbetween uh, you know, when it
comes to ohio state, michigan,which I I do agree with.
When you talk about rankingrivalries, if you look at the
rivalries that I hesitate to usethe word relevant because that
would imply that Army and Navyis irrelevant, but I think, a
(29:47):
better choice, the ones thathave national impact.
Especially when it comes to thecollege football playoff and
stuff like that, there's noarguing that Michigan-Ohio State
is the number one rivalry.
You could probably go throughthe years, going back to the
1950s, and you can start markingokay, whoever won this Rose
(30:09):
Bowl's on the line, potentialnational championship, and then
you go on to the playoffs.
Same sort of thing.
Army and Navy doesn't have thatsort of cachet, I guess.
But I will make the argumentthat Army and Navy is the most
and I'll use the word storiedrivalry in college athletics
because of just the, theatmosphere that surrounds it.
(30:32):
Right, I mean, there's guys onthe field competing that ended
up going to war and became warheroes, or they were killed in
action or something like that,and that to me, and there's some
incredible stories.
I don't know if you've read anyof John Feinstein's books, but
he's got some incredible storiesabout some of the folks that
played in the Army-Navy game.
And to me that's what makes itso special is because you have
(30:57):
that pomp and circumstance ofthe march on with the Corps,
cadets and the Brigade ofMidshipmen.
You have the coin toss whereyou have somebody from the
administration out thereflipping the coin and everything
, and just you know the flyovers, you know all that kind of
(31:18):
stuff.
There's just so much that goesinto it and I think that,
especially when you look at thestories that surround some of
these players, especially goingback you know 40, 50, 60 years,
it's pretty amazing and you know, sometimes it just kind of
makes your you know kind ofraises goosebumps on you because
it is so special.
And then you know there's thequality of the games themselves.
(31:40):
I mean, we've had, you know,navy's won a couple of times
recently where they were, youknow, considered upsets.
Army won a couple of years agoon a you know fumble at the goal
line which you know, if theNets could have held on to it
they would have been, uh,probably another upset there.
But uh, yeah, the way some ofthese games finish are just
amazing.
Navy's got a 14 game winningstreak, a 14 year winning streak
(32:04):
at one point from 2002 to 2015we'll call it and uh, you know
just a lot of stories there,that's for sure.
Rocky (32:11):
You know, and I respect that because when you watch that
, game and like you know and Irespect that, because when you
watch that game and like youknow, you got auburn alabama,
you got north carolina and dukeand basketball where they they
hate each other.
Right, they jawed each otherthe whole game and it's like
when you watch army navy play,it's just four quarters of
really physical football andthen at the end of the game when
both teams line up you you seethem hugging each other.
(32:34):
It's like these guys are goingto go to battle when their
career is over and they're goingto be representing our country
and I think that wholeatmosphere, if you watch that
game and you don't get chillswatching it, you're not human,
because I say that is the gamein sports and it just has a
different meaning when you watchit.
Karl (32:53):
Yeah, I totally agree with you there and I'm going to.
I'll ask you to do one thingafter the show is over and
everything.
If you go to YouTube and youpull up the 2019, you can just
type in the search 2019 armyNavy game teaser.
Okay, and this is like theintro to the army Navy game the
Sports puts together every year,and every year they tend to
(33:16):
outdo themselves, but, without adoubt, the best one I saw was
from that 2019 game and it justtook several clips from a speech
that President Kennedy madewhen he was addressing the class
of 63 when they graduated.
And I tell you what you listento that and you don't get a
(33:36):
leaky eyeball.
You're not human.
That's all I can say.
And then, of course, navy wonthe game.
Thank God, because I wouldn'twant to associate such a great
intro with a loss.
But it was really, reallysomething and it speaks exactly
to what you're saying.
I mean, that's just, that'sjust the uh, the feeling that
(33:57):
people get, uh, watching thegame.
And then, of course, like yousaid, when the players are
finished, uh, you know,competing against each other,
they, they serve together andthat is uh, that's something you
don't see anywhere else.
Rocky (34:09):
So and, as carl you and I were talking before we came on
briefly, he's a friend of mine,justin Davis, who was a
linebacker coach there for CoachKen for a while and then he
actually got out of coachingbecause he wanted to start a
family and in the coaching worldat that level you don't have
much time for family time.
You're on the road recruitingand all that, but you know,
(34:30):
coach Ken and I'll say this isthe last couple years from 2020
to 22 were a couple down yearsfor him, but the impact that he
had on that school, not just thefootball program but the entire
university itself.
Karl (34:48):
How much did he mean to that school?
Well, I tell you what.
That was probably one of thebest hires that the outgoing
athletic director made.
Chuck Gladchuck just retiredrecently.
But he first of all, he hiredCoach Johnson back in 2002 to
just basically get the programback on the right track and
Coach Johnson did a terrific jobwith that and I mean we were
(35:09):
lucky to hold on to him for five, seven years or whatever it was
.
But I just knew yeah, it wasseven years, but I just knew
that he was not long forAnnapolis.
He wanted to go to coach at thenext level and, sure enough,
when he went to Georgia Tech,the only thing I said was man, I
hope Gladchuck hires NiaMatalolo, because you got to
have continuity in a programlike this and sure, if that's
(35:30):
what he did so for all thoseyears, it was just nice.
Everybody knew what they weregetting into.
When they came to play at Navy,it was a triple option offense.
It was at the time the defensewasn't the greatest, but when he
hired the new defensivecoordinator, coach Brian
(35:52):
Newberry, back in, you know,prior to the 2019 season that
flipped everything.
And now, to tell you the truth,during those years where Navy
was struggling, it was a defensethat was carrying them to any
win that they got.
It was a defense that wascarrying them to those wins
until the offense could finallyget themselves on track again.
And now you have what I think isthe best of both worlds,
(36:13):
because you have a defense thatis disruptive.
They're opportunistic, they areextremely physical and you put
that together in an offensethat's creative, just really,
really deceptive, and I meanthey can beat you a number of
different ways.
So I think that this past year,that 10-3 record really
(36:33):
reflected that.
Think that that this past year,this 10 and 3 record really
reflected that, and I think youknow my hope is that if the
injury bug stays away, that wecan.
You know that the mids canrepeat.
Rocky (36:41):
You know that that same type of season and you talked
about coach Newberry, who wasthe seventh year at Navy's third
as the head coach, and youmentioned last past season 10
wins.
I think it's a six six time inschool history that they won 10
games in a season.
What's the impact he's had justin his year three as the head
coach?
Karl (37:00):
I think that and this is another I mean it was a great
hire by Coach Niematololobecause I felt like by the time
when, I guess, gladshaw made thedecision to move on from Coach
Ken, which really broke my heart, I didn't really want to see
that Same here.
But, that being said, he madethe right move to hire Coach
(37:20):
Newberry.
I mean, I think that he'dearned the position and I just
felt like, well, we just need tofind somebody to pick the
offense back up and the teamshould be back on its feet in
another couple of years.
And the first year didn't goout that great because the
offensive coordinator just wasnot a good fit for the Naval
Academy.
I mean, I think that and Icould tell this too because I
(37:43):
would watch all the pressconferences and stuff and I
found this out later because Iknew the.
You know, I had interviewed thequarterback's mom a couple of
times and she'd communicatedwith me after the fact that,
yeah, this guy, it was a toughlocker room because he just
didn't understand he couldn'tadapt his coaching style to the
(38:04):
mids schedule.
He didn't understand how well,you only have them for two hours
, that's it okay.
So, you know, figure it out.
And he couldn't do it.
And it got so frustrating and Ithink at some point he might
have lost the locker room.
And so, yeah, coach Newberryhad to make a move.
And then the guy that he endedup hiring, coach Chronic I mean,
he's the one that he wanted inthe first place, but he wasn't
(38:31):
taking no for an answer.
So he went to Gladchuck andsaid, hey, we need to do what we
need to do to get this guy,otherwise I can't make any
promises in terms of what theoffense is going to be.
And Kronick, he overperformed.
I mean talk about exceedingexpectations, I mean, my God.
Rocky (38:48):
And that American Conference too.
Last year you were talkingabout Tulane, but Army won 12
games.
Tulane, but Army won 12 games.
Tulane won nine games.
Memphis won 11 games.
East Carolina won I think sevenor eight.
South Florida won seven andSouth Florida is going to be
better this year than what Ithink people are going to give
them credit for.
But that conference over thelast two or three years has
gotten so much better.
And some of those top teamsthey're putting six seven teams
(39:09):
in bowl games now every year.
Yeah, that's right, they'reputting six seven teams in bowl
games now every year.
Karl (39:13):
Yeah, that's right.
In fact, I think this past yearit was eight and they finished
six and two.
So not too shabby there, and Ithink that they always have
somebody.
I mean they had a few thatmoved on over to conferences
like, for instance, centralFlorida.
But I remember a couple ofyears.
One year Central Florida wentundefeated and I'm not sure if
(39:38):
they made the college football.
I don't think they made thecollege football playoff that
year.
No, they didn't.
But yeah, they'll always have ateam that's threatening to
break into that college footballplayoff.
And now, of course, with 12teams, it's going to be a little
bit easier to make that happen.
So we'll see.
Now a lot of people are talkingabout, you know, was, you know,
is Navy good enough to make theCFP this year?
I said, well, I don't want toget into all that.
(39:59):
Okay, I let me just tell youwhat my goals are as a Navy fan,
right, I mean, I look at theirschedule and I don't.
I'm not one to make predictionsor anything like that, but the
goals are, you know, beat army,win the command and chief's
trophy, which means beat airforce, two, all right, and then,
if they can snag about, youknow, eight or nine wins, that's
(40:19):
great.
Get to a bowl game andpotentially win that, uh, that's
it.
I mean if and I don't reallyget all caught up in the hype of
this, like because a lot ofpeople are talking them up this
past year because they'reundefeated, you know, six games
into the season, but you know,the people who really follow
Navy football understand whatkind of program it is and what
kind of team it is.
(40:39):
They will always be a team thatis going to be borderline top
15 to top 25, right in thatrange.
That's a good, that's a goodsolid program for them, that's a
good season for them.
And who knows, maybe they catchlightning in a bottle one year.
The college football playoffhas 12 teams.
(41:02):
Now Maybe they get that 12thteam, but guess what?
They got to play one of the topseeded teams and that might not
be too pretty.
But you never know.
And, like I said, I, I just likeI like to see them, you know,
play these top programs and and,uh, invariably they will come
away with a win every so I mean,they've, I think they've
(41:23):
probably beaten a top 25 team,uh, more, you know, last, last
year they did because it wasmemphis, and then, uh, they ucf
a couple times.
They beat them two years in arow when they were ranked the
biggest win was probably againstHouston.
About 10 years ago Houston camein ranked sixth.
Navy was coming off a loss toAir Force, which is very
(41:44):
disappointing, but they ended upknocking off Houston and that
was probably their highest.
Yeah, that was the highestranked win since even about the
time I graduated they knockedoff South Carolina.
That was ranked second at thetime.
I still I'm trying to figureout how they won that game.
I actually watched a video ofit on youtube one time.
It was I think the gamecocksjust dressed out a bunch of
(42:05):
their fans as players because,you know, maybe just ran them
right off the field.
Rocky (42:10):
I think the one year you're talking about, when, when
ucf won, they finished 12 andoh, they didn't have the
playoffs then and scott frostwas the head coach and I
remember at the end of theseason ucf celebrated and put a
banner up at the school thatthey won the national
championship.
Um, because at that timeobviously they didn't have the
playoff and they didn't getselected to play in one of the
big.
I think at that time it was oneof the bcs games, right?
(42:31):
So you answered my question onexpectations for this coming
season and I think it's, it'srealistic.
I think last year, you know, atone point in time they were,
they were saying what non-powerfive team now they call it the
power four outside of the top 25has a chance to get into the
playoff?
And I remember they mentionedNavy, they had mentioned Army
because they were bothundefeated and they're on a
(42:53):
collision course.
And I think now, with that12-team playoff I think a lot of
years you would say, well, navyor Army is probably not going
to, or even Air Force isprobably not going to make a BCS
playoff game as a top four.
But now, with that 12 teams,like you said, if you get hot at
the right time, they can squeakout maybe a 10-1, 10 and 2, or
(43:17):
you know.
Karl (43:18):
There there's a realistic chance now for navy in these
teams to get in.
Yeah, you're right.
I mean, a lot would have to gojust about perfect.
I don't think they could affordto lose more than one game.
To your point, I think thatyour call was right on there.
10 and 1, you know, maybe twolost, maybe two losses,
depending on what that secondone is.
But uh, they'd almost certainlyhave to win the conference, um,
and then after that it's justup to the folks in the selection
(43:39):
committee.
But uh, like I said, I mean tome that would be fantastic.
But uh, you know, I'm not goingto lose any sleep if navy
doesn't get into the collegefootball playoff.
Rocky (43:48):
I do tend to lose a ton of sleep if they lose to army,
believe me I'm sure you and alot of the, a lot of the alum
would be the same way for ifthat game, uh, if it doesn't go
your way.
So car the last thing I want toask and I appreciate you jumping
out with me tonight, so we'regoing to go a half hour.
We're a little bit longer thanthat.
What's next for you?
When can?
When can we expect an, apodcast episode to come out?
(44:10):
How can we follow youthroughout the season and even
beyond football season?
Karl (44:14):
Yeah, well, thanks for asking.
Yeah, navy Sports Central is mypodcast and I'm, you know, not
a whole lot going on in thesummer.
Right now I was thinking aboutmaybe using the opportunity to
pull up, you know, maybe reachout to one of the coaches that
you don't hear we don't hear toomuch about.
Like, for instance, this pastyear we had a couple of guys
that won the doubles nationalchampionship in squash of all
(44:35):
sports right, and I think that'dbe kind of cool.
I've not talked about squashyet.
Maybe we do that.
But specifically, I will bedoing a football preview,
probably in about a month, rightbefore the season starts, and
I'll probably have.
I'm going to try and get acouple of my classmates on who
are the team captains when wewere there to kind of, you know,
(44:59):
sum up how the fall practiceshave gone.
I mean how the summer practiceshave gone and, you know, going
into the fall, I think, we openup with VMI and then I think
after that we have a conferencegame against University of
Alabama, birmingham, and then weget into the rest of the
schedule.
But, yeah, so Navy SportsCentral, I'm probably going to
look to record something inabout a month that's football
related and hopefully I'll beable to stick to that.
(45:21):
You know, once every two tothree weeks timeframe that I've
had in the past.
So and I you can follow me onInstagram.
This is CarlDNavy84.
And I think I do have a NavySports Nation handle as well.
So either one of those twothose are the main two places on
Facebook, by the way, and youdon't have to be a Navy grad or
anything like that If you wantto jump on, you can.
(45:43):
But the Navy Sports Nation is aprivate group but you don't,
like I said, you can be just afan of Navy if you just kind of
want to follow some of theirsports.
Some of their sports.
I tend to post there fairlyregularly and all you got to do
is type that into the searchNavy sports nation, answer a
couple of questions to jump in,and we got over a thousand
people.
I'm not saying they're allactive, but we do get quite a
(46:04):
bit of nice engagement on thatwhen it comes to the different
sports, whether it's football,track and field, you know,
whatever's in season.
Rocky (46:11):
Well.
Carl listen I'll.
I'll definitely follow you andwhen you talk some college
football, if you need a co-host,you need a guest to come on and
talk college football, let meknow I'd be more than happy to
come on and chat with you, but Ihope you had fun.
I had a great time chattingwith you, learning a little bit
more about you, and I've been abig Navy and Academy fan for a
long time.
I always pull for all theAcademies and they're fun to
(46:32):
watch, so I really appreciateyou taking the time tonight.
Karl (46:39):
All right, thanks, rocky.
I appreciate you asking and I'mhappy to come back anytime.
And I think this is a reallygood synergistic fit too,
because it's with your depth ofknowledge in college football.
I think we do need to look foran opportunity to do some
reciprocity here.
I think it'll be a lot of fun.
Might be a great way to kickoff the season for Navy.
Rocky (46:51):
Sounds good, let me know I appreciate it, carl.
Thanks for keeping in touch.
Karl (46:54):
Okay, take care.
Bye-bye.
Rocky (46:56):
All right man.
So that was Carl Darden Great,great, great guest.
I've always been fascinatedwith the academies, and not even
just for a college football fan, but just in sports in general.
So give Carl a follow.
I'll make sure I post his blogon my page as well.
Thanks for following me.
Tonight on this podcast, I willpost the first episode of the
(47:18):
46 Power podcast, which iseverything football.
So it could be high schoolcollege NFL.
We got high school footballaround the corner, so I'll be
bringing on the local coaches,like I always do, talking about
the upcoming season.
So stay tuned for that.
Stay tuned for the MohawkValley Sports Watch.
It's not going away.
I've just been busy runningaround with my kids on weekends
(47:40):
and throughout the week withsports, so I'm not going
anywhere.
More to come.
So I appreciate you followingtonight.
Hopefully you enjoyed the show.
As I say on the Rock Pile, theRock Pile is where dreams become
reality.
Have a good evening everybody.
Thank you Good evening.
(01:06):
Welcome to the Rock Pile heretonight.
Happy to be back behind the micwith another episode of the
Beyond the Game podcast tonightwith Carl Darden.
We'll chat with him in just alittle bit.
He's a graduate of the US NavalAcademy.
He's a 20-year veteran formerhelicopter pilot and a chronic
Navy sports fan.
We're going to talk about hispodcast, the Navy sports nation,
which is the official site forall Navy sports.
(01:29):
So we'll talk to him in alittle bit.
If you're just tuning in andmake sure to give me a subscribe
on YouTube, follow me onFacebook, youtube, linkedin,
twitter, wherever you'refollowing me on social media.
If you have any questions forthe show tonight, just put them
in the comment box.
I'll try to pull over as manyas I can, excited to bring back
the 46 Power Podcast.
We'll be talking nothing butcollege football, nfl football,
(01:51):
high school football and allfootball.
I'll debut that episode Morethan likely I'll let you know
this week.
We're looking at next Mondaynight as well, so a lot going on
.
The Mohawk Valley Sports Watchwill be back on the weekend with
Coach Medesis, coach Pags andthe Statman.
So a lot going on here on theRock Pile.
So, without further ado, let'sbring on Carl.
(02:13):
Let me just pull him up here.
Let me just fix you, carl, letme get my screens up here.
Let me move you here and thereyou are.
How are you, my friend?
All right, good, good are.
How are you, my friend?
Good, good.
Rocky, how are you doing?
I'm doing good.
I'm really excited for thisshow and I appreciate you
working with me on the schedule.
I know we were supposed to golast week, so I appreciate you
(02:34):
working with me to get thisthing going here tonight.
Karl (02:36):
No, that's not a problem.
Happy to do it.
Rocky (02:39):
So, carl, let's talk a little bit about your background
.
First, as I was just saying, a20-year veteran of the US Naval
Academy, former helicopter pilot, chronic Navy sports fan.
And then I want to get into howyou started the Navy sports
podcast.
Give us a little intro onyourself.
Karl (02:55):
Okay, thanks.
Yeah, I graduated from Navywith a class of 84.
Ended up basically gettingexposed to the Naval Academy
when I was a freshman in highschool and kind of followed the
route to get admitted.
So everything worked out there,went to flight school.
As you mentioned, I was ahelicopter pilot and I was on
active duty for nine years andflew a couple of different
(03:19):
platforms.
The last two and a half yearswas the most fun, probably
because I was an instructor downin Pensacola, florida, and
teaching the students to fly theH-57 Jet Ranger.
They phased that out a littlewhile ago I'd say about 10 years
ago and they got a newer modelnow.
But it was a really, reallygood time.
It was probably the most funI've ever had in the Navy.
(03:39):
And then, after nine years, Idecided to dip my toe into the
corporate world.
I did stay in the reserves,though, so I did the 11 years in
the reserves for the total of20.
I didn't fly in the reserves, Iwas mostly attached to a unit
that was working with theirtraffic controllers off
different MFib ships and stufflike that, but still a really
good time.
Spent 19 years with JohnsonJohnson and finished that time
(04:03):
up in 2016.
And I was doing an energyconsulting business for a little
while and then I just basicallyam retired now.
I retired, semi-retired aboutfour years ago, fully retired,
basically two years ago.
So I ended up starting thispodcast about four years ago and
(04:24):
it was off the heels of theblog that I began in 2020 during
COVID.
The blog was called Navy SportsNation and then the podcast
just seemed to be a naturalfollow on from that.
We did it.
A year later it's called NavySports Central, which is the
official podcast of the NavySports Nation.
I know it's really not goodmarketing to use two different
(04:45):
names for a podcast and a blog,but what the heck?
I don't claim to be a marketingexpert or anything like that,
but anyway.
So, yeah, I've been doing itfor four years and just really a
lot of fun.
It's strictly a hobby.
I don't do it for money oranything like that.
I just love talking about theNaval Academy athletes, not just
in the revenue producing sportslike football and basketball,
(05:08):
but there are some incredibleathletes on these sports that
just kind of fly below the radarand I like to highlight those
guys and those girls as well,and those young men and women.
Might you know, at any time Ican.
So that's what I do for fun and, like I said, four years and
still going strong.
Rocky (05:26):
So when I was in high school, which was many, many,
many years ago, I was an optionquarterback and, uh, my mom and
dad I would say more of my momthan my father I was recruited
by Navy, I was recruited by airforce, I was recruited by army
because, of course, the optionquarterback.
My mom threw a lot of thoseletters out because my mom
didn't want me to go intoservice, but when I look back
(05:47):
now at my high school career, Iwould have been the perfect fit
to go play at any of the academyschools, just because of,
obviously, the option game nowtoday.
But it seems like you know,nowadays when you look at the
NIL and you look at recruiting,it's so much different, right,
because when you sign up and yougo play at one of these
(06:08):
academies and we can focus onNavy here is when you graduate,
right, you have to go into theservice, right?
That's part of the commitment.
Karl (06:17):
Yes, yes, that is, and sometimes it varies a little bit
, you know, depending on whatadministration is in.
They might make some allowancesif somebody gets drafted or
something like that.
Like, for instance, this yearwe had a defensive back named
Rayon Lane who was a terrificsafety and he's also a special
teams player and he was I can'tremember if he got, I think he
(06:40):
did get drafted.
Either that or he's anundrafted free agent signed by,
I believe, the JacksonvilleJaguars, and I think they're
trying to work something outwith him where they're saying
hey, look, go ahead and takeyour shot.
If you make it, we'll justdefer your service time and you
can do it later.
Or if it doesn't work out, youcan just go right back into the
Marine Corps or the Navy.
Most of the football playerstend to go Marine Corps and Ray
(07:02):
may have done that, he might beNavy, I don't know.
But yeah, it really kind ofdepends.
But you're right, it typicallyit's at least a two-year
commitment.
Even even way back when DavidRobinson graduated and he was
drafted by the San Antonio Spurs, he he did two years as a civil
in the civil engineering corpsbefore he, before they released
him to play NBA ball full-time.
Rocky (07:23):
So and I know you talk about some of the non.
You know the football,basketball sports.
There's a lot of good sports atNavy.
What have been some of the funsports and non-football related
in basketball that you'vecovered and you've talked about?
Karl (07:37):
Well, I tell you what and these are the ones that tend to
do a little bit better on mypodcast, because you don't hear
from them, you don't hear aboutthem all that much.
So what ends up happening is,especially if I have a guest on
right, we'll do the podcast andeverything and they'll send it
out to their folks.
And next thing, you know, likethe rowing is a great example,
all right, I've got a couple ofclassmates who, when we were
(07:59):
seniors, they were on theheavyweight rowing team that won
the national championship and Iinterviewed them basically it
was back in January, and one ofthem was the team captain and
the other guy occupied thestroke seat, which is like the
seat that establishes the pacefor the entire boat we had.
We must've talked for an hourand 40 minutes, right, and when
(08:22):
that one hit, you know, when Ireleased that one, they sent it
out to all their rowing friendsand there's this really tight
rowing community and it just,you know, kind of blew up.
So I enjoy talking about rowing.
I got a rowing machine myselfand I always, you know, ask
people for tips and stuff on,you know, different workouts and
everything.
So rowing is one, women'slacrosse is another one and that
(08:46):
was one that I've had the sameOne of my guests that I like to
bring back.
She played at Navy when it wasstill a club sport.
Now it was a national levelclub sport because they won a
couple of national championshipson that stage, but it didn't
become a varsity sport at Navyuntil 2007.
But she is really, reallyknowledgeable.
(09:08):
In fact, she's a high schoollacrosse coach, so whenever
something big happens withwomen's lacrosse, I always
invite her on.
In fact, my very last podcast Iwas counting down the top 10
most memorable moments in Navysports for this sports season
and the number one moment Iselected was when Navy women's
lacrosse beat Loyola to qualifyfor the NCAA tournament.
(09:31):
Because Loyola is a monsterprogram in women's lacrosse in
the Patriot League and they'vebeen in the league basically 11
years and they have not lost asingle regular season conference
game ever.
They're 93 and 0 and the onlyteam that's beaten them during
that whole time they've been inthe league has been navy, but
it's always been in the patriotleague tournament or in the ncaa
(09:54):
tournament.
So this year they beat them inovertime to qualify.
Loyola also made it to thetournament as well, just as an
at-large, but it was quite anexciting game.
It it was televised on CBSSports Network and it was just
fantastic.
So yeah, rowing, women'slacrosse, some of the others
I've done, you know, men's andwomen's swimming is another one
I'd like to highlight as much asI can.
(10:15):
The women's tennis program isbig.
Let's see what are some of theother.
Those are probably the big ones.
I've talked about the rifleteam as well.
That's actually a co-ed varsitysport and, um, you know a few
others, but yeah, those, thoseones that, uh, that fly below
the radar, tend to be prettypopular.
Rocky (10:35):
Yeah, I can relate to that because I mean I I cover
the big sports, I cover football, basketball and baseball, but
locally, I've covered fieldhockey, I've covered soccer,
I've covered some of the, I'vecovered bowling and some other
sports as well.
Lacrosse, I think, has gottenbigger and bigger.
I'm close to Syracuse, soSyracuse lacrosse is really big
this way.
(10:55):
And I know Navy the men's havea fantastic lacrosse team too.
You just kind of touched onthis with some of the sports
that you've highlighted.
Has there been a game, a biggame that you've covered with
Navy that stands out to you inany of the podcasts that you've
done?
Karl (11:11):
Well, certainly this last one, with the women's team
beating Loyola, was huge, and Ithink that the reason that was
so big again, I already spoke toLoyola's record, but I think
what really added to thestoryline was the last couple of
times that Navy has playedLoyola.
In last year's Patriot LeagueChampionship game they lost in
(11:31):
overtime.
It was just such a tough defeatbecause they were battling with
them just all the way down tothe end.
The score was tight at the endof regulation and then Loyola
was know, put one pass, a goalieand that was it.
And then in the regular seasonthis year they played them in
Annapolis.
So I'm thinking, okay, this is,this is where I think they can
take them down during theregular season.
(11:53):
And they lost in doubleovertime.
It was.
It was just so painful.
So this championship game thatwas just played, you know, a
couple of months ago, that put areally huge spotlight on it and
I think that, at least inrecent memory, if you're talking
about the sports that aren'tthe real huge ones in terms of
(12:15):
generating the money, that wasprobably the biggest one.
Talking about some other sportslike, say, on the men's side,
probably wrestling is one thatthey took down Lehigh's got a
really big program in the leagueand they beat Lehigh.
(12:36):
And this is when Navy'swrestling coach.
It was just like in his firstyear.
As a matter of fact, this guy'sname is Kerry Collat.
Just a monster career incollege and he wrestled at.
He ended up graduating from asmall school in pennsylvania, uh
, but this guy is the perfectcoach for for navy wrestling and
he's just got this attitudethat, um, you know you don't
(12:58):
need all the fancy facilitiesand all that kind of stuff.
He actually did.
He had a podcast.
It would have pretty bigfollowing of his own and, uh, he
, uh, he did this piece one timewhen, when he was, uh, still
wrestling, they went down toCuba to wrestle their guys and
Cuba has really, really goodwrestling program and you look
in their gyms and it looks likeyou know one of these boxing
(13:18):
gyms back from like the 1950s.
You know rust on all theweights.
You know mats that have beenaround forever 1950s.
You know rust on all theweights, you know mats that have
been around forever, but theseguys are just first grade
wrestlers and that you know, hispoint being that, look,
facilities are great, but whatit comes down to is a guy on the
mat, you know, and that's howhe trains his wrestlers, that's
how that's a culture he'sestablished at Navy and so, yeah
(13:41):
, when they beat Lehigh and notjust beat him they beat him
pretty handily.
His first year as coach, thatwas a really big deal.
Rocky (13:51):
Carl, one of the things everybody always talks about,
and even some of the announcerson TV or anytime you listen and
watch any of the academy schools.
They talk about the athleteitself and the difference
between an athlete at theacademy and again we can focus
on Navy here or, let's say, anathlete out of Michigan or Ohio
State, and they always talkabout you don't ever want to
play at academy school becauseof the toughness.
(14:13):
They're smart, they'redisciplined, they don't make a
lot of mistakes.
Talk to us about some of thedifference between an academy
athlete, maybe, versus some ofthose other big power five
schools.
Karl (14:23):
Yeah, that's a good point, and I think that when, when you
think about the, the type ofrecruit that comes in, uh, this
is all about spotting potential,right, because I mean, navy is
never going to get a five-starathlete, they're probably never
going to get a four-star athlete.
They can get a three-starathlete and develop them to a
(14:43):
four probably.
It's happened before and I'llcite a couple of examples but
yeah, they're looking for thatstrong two-star, really good
three-star athlete.
That's just got you know.
First of all, they got to beable to understand what the
mission of the academy is isbasically to train Naval and
Marine Corps officers.
Right, and certainly the answerthat I hear from most of the
(15:06):
football players when they'reinterviewed and say, hey, well,
why did you come to Navy?
And they say, well, you know, Iwanted to serve my country but
I still wanted to playcompetitive Division I football.
That is the difference.
I mean the other folks, youknow more power to them, you
know their goal is to playDivision I football and you know
more than you know, if possible, get to the NFL, when that's
(15:26):
not really what's on the NavalAcademy athletes' mind.
They just want to play good,competitive football and they'll
do whatever it takes to get onthe field and I've said this
before to other folks I'vetalked to.
When they go to the practicesand you know, playing the games
and stuff like that, that's theeasiest thing they do all week,
(15:47):
right, because of all theirother commitments.
I mean they have no joke.
20, I would say minimum 17 to18 credit hours per semester and
junior year forget it, it'sprobably going to be closer to
20.
And you have professionalcommitments that you have
besides that lectures to go toat night.
When I was there they gaveexams at night.
(16:07):
Not sure if they do thatanymore, but let's just say
you're being pulled from a bunchof different directions and the
time that they get on thepractice field is probably like
their sanctuary and they go andyou know they have their 100%
focus on what they're doing whenthey're on the field.
They have to be, otherwise, youknow, things start going
sideways.
But that's probably the maindifference.
(16:29):
These are just really strongstudent athletes that want to
compete versus other recruitsthat go to colleges and so forth
.
That may or may not finish andthat's the choice that they make
, but at the Naval Academy theyhave no choice but to finish.
You know, finish in four years,or that's basically it.
(16:52):
And the nice thing is thecoaching staff understands what
the mission is.
They understand the type ofathlete they're looking for.
A lot of coaches love coachinghere because it is a
developmental program.
It's no, it's not fishing peopleout of the transfer portal and,
you know, hoping that you getthe right mix to to make a run
at a national championship.
(17:12):
I mean no disrespect to Ohiostate, but, um, you know they
had a huge NIL budget and I willsay that the one, the one guy
that they had on their roster asa kid named Denzel Burke, who
actually, when he was in gradeschool, went to school with my
son and so we've been followinghim ever since he got there.
But he was a high schoolrecruit, started his freshman
(17:34):
year, played all the way through, stayed with Ohio State the
whole time, didn't mess with theportal, none of that stuff.
But he's an exception to therule.
These days it's just not thatway and I think when people come
to coach at Navy or when theycome to play at Navy, that's one
distraction that is not present, and I guess it isn't away from
a player standpoint, butcertainly not from the coaches.
(17:55):
I mean, they understand thatwhen they recruit a player
they're there to try and developthem as best as they can and
ultimately we've had someplayers we had our shared
players go into the transferportal, but none of the ones
that I wouldn't say there's.
There's one that did Chad Hodges.
(18:15):
He, he went into the transferport, is a linebacker and he
ended up playing a TCU and didend up playing in the national
championship game when they gotwaxed by a who is it?
Was it Georgia that beat TCUthat badly that year?
I can't remember.
Yeah, it was pretty bad, yeah,but Chad Hodges was about the
only guy that I recall that wentto the transfer portal from
Navy and still got appreciableplaying time.
(18:39):
In fact he started, but most ofthe others they just kind of
disappear and you just never seethem again.
So, uh, I think that playersthat come to navy know that if
they want to play division onefootball, their best bet is to
stick with the program.
Rocky (18:51):
So yeah, it's funny you bring up duns albert because in
my family we're, so we're big 10family here.
My wife and I met in columbus,ohio, so she drank.
She drank the gatorade and is abig timetime Ohio State fan.
I am a Michigan fan.
I didn't think that was allowed.
It's a house divided, for sure.
(19:12):
We got the flag and everything,but we don't talk to each other
much in the fall.
She had bragging rights thisyear because they won the
national championship and I cansay we beat you the last four
years and we won it the yearbefore.
So we got that OhioState-Michigan Michigan ties
here.
But the other thing that alwayscomes up and I always find it
fascinating too and and you kindof lived it and I'm sure you've
talked to some of the athleteswhen you go to NAV you got to go
(19:35):
to class but that schedule andthat routine from what the
schedule looks like in themorning until late at night, and
then you got to factor inpractice.
Like you said, practice isprobably the easiest thing that
they'll do the entire day, butcan you outline maybe what a
typical day looks like for anathlete?
Karl (19:52):
Yeah, I mean, it's the way the day is pretty much set up.
You wake up and sometimes,depending on the time of year,
they might have some workout todo even before they go to class.
Right, it might be just a quickweight training workout or
something like that.
But you go down, you eatbreakfast.
Well, you have formation, youeat breakfast and then you have
(20:15):
four classes.
You know four class periodsbefore lunch just one, two,
three, four.
They may not have a class everysingle period, but I would say
at least three, if not all four.
And then you come back, youhave lunch at noon.
They typically eat with theirteam at noontime and then they
finish up with the afternoonclasses, which is usually.
You know two more class periodsand then you know they go to
(20:37):
the practice.
They finish up that and theyeat dinner with their team.
And then then the study hours.
Like you know, basically threehours.
You know 8 to 11 o'clock andthen after that, if they want to
keep studying, I guess they can.
But people I mean the mids takeit from me really value their
sleep.
I mean I could fall asleep atany time in any position when I
(21:01):
was there.
I did not need a rack.
I could just fall down and youknow, just sleep with that is
sitting down in a chair.
Some people just couldn't eventell that I was asleep until
they came to look, looking realclose, and saw that my eyes were
closed.
You know so.
But yeah, that's a typical day.
It just every day, every minuteis really accounted for.
There's really not a whole lotof time, especially if you're a
(21:21):
freshman.
There's not a whole lot of timeto sit back and just kind of
kick back or anything like that.
But yeah, that's basically.
And then you know they don'thave Saturday classes anymore,
but they used to.
You'd have Saturday classesjust until noon and it would be
like one, maybe two, but theydon't have that anymore.
But yeah, it's pretty jammed up.
Rocky (21:51):
There's not a whole lot of free time, given the number
of credit hours they have totake, and that's why things are
pretty much on the go the wholetime.
What's it like for you to goback?
I don't know if you get to anyof the sporting events not just
football, but it could be any ofthe sporting events at Navy.
What's it like for you, as aNavy graduate, to go back and
still be part?
Karl (22:05):
of it.
I love it.
I try to get back up in Phoenix, by the way, and I try to get
back every, you know, say, 18months or so, and that is
sometimes for the expresspurposes of seeing a game.
Like um.
A year ago, april, I went, uhbecause, uh, I just caught a
weekend where there's a lothappening Army was playing Navy
(22:26):
and women's lacrosse at home.
The Navy rugby team, which, bythe way, won a national
championship a couple of yearsago they were playing in their
first round of their playoffgame.
So I wanted to see that.
So my wife and I took the tripback and we went to the rugby
game, we went to lacrosse gameand it is great.
I will tell you that thelacrosse game was amazing
(22:47):
because there's just thousandsof people in the stands, which
was a really something forwomen's lacrosse.
I mean, you can, that sport isreally taking hold in the East
coast, uh, on the East coast,and I just really enjoyed the
atmosphere.
And to me, it's just reallycool to see a lot of you know,
so much support for some ofthese sports that, like I said,
(23:08):
typically don't get a lot ofairtime.
You know, all the time when Iwent back for my reunion back in
October.
I didn't get a chance to makeit, but one of my buddies
actually went to thecross-country meet because
they're competing against Armyin cross-country that very same
weekend.
So he was able to tell me aboutthat competing against Army and
cross country that very sameweekend so he was able to tell
(23:28):
me about that.
But that whole environment, Ithink, is just something special
, and especially being agraduate and being a part of
that.
I was not a varsity athletewhen I was in school I was too
busy trying to.
I made a business decision tomake sure I could graduate.
But it was great when I wasthere as a mid.
It's even better now,especially when you see sports
(23:51):
like football kind of reboundinga little bit after several flat
years.
Just the level of enthusiasmand the support is pretty
exciting, not just within theacademy itself but also the city
of Annapolis.
Rocky (24:01):
Well, I was just going to say.
A lot of people have told methat you know, on Saturdays, a
nice fall day there me that, uh,you know, on on saturday is a
nice fall day.
There's nothing better thanthat campus.
How special is that campus?
Karl (24:09):
it's something else.
The fall and, and, uh, theoctober is probably the best
time to visit there because yougot nice crisp weather.
Uh, it's just just fabulous.
I mean just sunshine everywhere, the leaves are turning and,
just like I said, the level ofexcitement.
This this past October, with myreunion, we were playing with
(24:31):
Charlotte.
You know Charlotte's not thebest team in the American
Conference, but we played themthe year before and just barely
squeaked by.
It was mostly defensive win, sowe didn't really know what to
expect, but the atmosphere wasjust incredible and everybody
was super excited about it.
The weather was perfect and Iwas actually doing my podcast,
kind of like an on the scenesort of thing, just interviewing
different classmates and stuff,asking them some of their
(24:53):
favorite moments in navy sports.
And, uh, you know, we blinkedand before you knew it, the
scores like 21 to nothing.
You know just a lot of reallyexciting offensive displays
there and we had one guy,deshaun Peel.
He had two pick sixes and youknow one of them, I think,
actually finished off thescoring and it went for like 84
(25:14):
yards or something like that.
So, yeah, pretty prettyexciting stuff.
Rocky (25:20):
I know a lot of teams and I have a lot of buddies that
are coaches in college footballbig-time college football that
have played against Navy and alot of them say it's so hard in
practice to simulate what thattriple option really looks like.
And it's like you get into agame and I'll never forget this.
I was living in Columbus.
Navy took Ohio State to thewire late in the fourth quarter.
(25:40):
I think Ohio State scored latein that game and Navy had a
chance and I think it was anincomplete pass at the end of
the game.
But everybody was like that wasone of the toughest games Ohio
State played all year.
And they all say the same thingwhen you see Navy or you see
Army or you see Air Force on theschedule, you better be ready
to strap it up because it'sgoing to be a full four-quarter
game.
(26:00):
It's so hard to simulate thattriple option in practice.
Karl (26:03):
You're right, it's tough to simulate that speed.
That's the trickiest part.
I know the game that you'retalking about, because Navy had
scored to close to two pointsand they were going for a
two-point conversion and it wasintercepted and it was run back.
Ohio State ended up winning byfour.
I can't remember what year itwas, but it was when Kenan
(26:29):
reynolds was, I believe, ajunior.
If it was a junior, yeah, hewas.
Yeah, I mean, he was somethingelse.
And and since then, uh, you know, the triple option basically is
still uh a part of navy's baseoffensive package.
But about two years ago well,actually it was it was a year
ago that uh navy hired a newoffensive coordinator, um, and
he came in and he brought in hisname is a uh coach chronic, and
(26:52):
he brought in the uh the hybridwing t is what they call it um,
and it was kind of a.
The wing t is a very, very oldoffense, uh, but he made so many
changes he grew up with it.
But he made so many changes hegrew up with it and he made so
many different changes andmodifications that kind of
brought it into the 21st century, so to speak, where it
(27:12):
incorporates a lot more passing.
If you go back and look at theArmy-Navy game, you'd be
surprised at how much Navy threwthe ball and it was really
quite something when you sawCoach Kwonick's game plan and
everything.
But it's still an option, right.
I mean, you still have tobasically make your reads and so
(27:33):
forth, and the idea of anoption is just to get on the
unbalanced side of the field andmake that defensive player make
a decision and once thatdecision is made, you, you need
to have one way to go.
That they haven't accounted forand it was, uh, just a
masterful game plan.
That coach chronic calledagainst army and you know,
pretty much the whole year wentlike that.
(27:54):
There's only one, one gamewhere actually two games where
we were truly embarrassed, andthat was against notre dame and
against tulane.
Notre dame, we just maybe justjust wound up in quicksand and
couldn't get themselves out.
And then Tulane I think whathappened was, well, our starting
quarterback.
He got knocked out of the gamewith some back spasms and the
(28:14):
kid that backed him up justdidn't have the same chemistry
and everything, and it was atough game.
But they finished 10-3 on theyear, which a great win over
army, which is a considered anupset because army did win the
conference and I still I stillhave that game on, I still have
that game recorded on my dvr anduh, uh.
(28:35):
And then they won their bowlgame against oklahoma, which
they had to come from behind todo that and old navy teams that
ran the option were not knownfor coming from behind, but with
this hybrid wing t it's muchmore balanced out there and, uh,
they were able to fight theirway back and end up pulling out
the win 21 to 20 and I know youmentioned that, uh, you know,
(28:55):
when you were back um or afriend of yours went to a uh
cross-country meet and they were, they were its army.
Rocky (29:02):
Again, my family, huge college football fans, and I
always say the the best game incollege football, the biggest
rivalry, is Michigan-Ohio State.
They call it the game.
A lot of people say America'sgame is Army and Navy.
Talk to us how special thatrivalry is, not just in football
but just in general at Navy.
What's it mean when you guysplay Army in any sport?
Karl (29:24):
Yeah, think.
Uh.
Well, first of all, I do wantto speak to and basically
amplifying some of your remarksbetween uh, you know, when it
comes to ohio state, michigan,which I I do agree with.
When you talk about rankingrivalries, if you look at the
rivalries that I hesitate to usethe word relevant because that
would imply that Army and Navyis irrelevant, but I think, a
(29:47):
better choice, the ones thathave national impact.
Especially when it comes to thecollege football playoff and
stuff like that, there's noarguing that Michigan-Ohio State
is the number one rivalry.
You could probably go throughthe years, going back to the
1950s, and you can start markingokay, whoever won this Rose
(30:09):
Bowl's on the line, potentialnational championship, and then
you go on to the playoffs.
Same sort of thing.
Army and Navy doesn't have thatsort of cachet, I guess.
But I will make the argumentthat Army and Navy is the most
and I'll use the word storiedrivalry in college athletics
because of just the, theatmosphere that surrounds it.
(30:32):
Right, I mean, there's guys onthe field competing that ended
up going to war and became warheroes, or they were killed in
action or something like that,and that to me, and there's some
incredible stories.
I don't know if you've read anyof John Feinstein's books, but
he's got some incredible storiesabout some of the folks that
played in the Army-Navy game.
And to me that's what makes itso special is because you have
(30:57):
that pomp and circumstance ofthe march on with the Corps,
cadets and the Brigade ofMidshipmen.
You have the coin toss whereyou have somebody from the
administration out thereflipping the coin and everything
, and just you know the flyovers, you know all that kind of
(31:18):
stuff.
There's just so much that goesinto it and I think that,
especially when you look at thestories that surround some of
these players, especially goingback you know 40, 50, 60 years,
it's pretty amazing and you know, sometimes it just kind of
makes your you know kind ofraises goosebumps on you because
it is so special.
And then you know there's thequality of the games themselves.
(31:40):
I mean, we've had, you know,navy's won a couple of times
recently where they were, youknow, considered upsets.
Army won a couple of years agoon a you know fumble at the goal
line which you know, if theNets could have held on to it
they would have been, uh,probably another upset there.
But uh, yeah, the way some ofthese games finish are just
amazing.
Navy's got a 14 game winningstreak, a 14 year winning streak
(32:04):
at one point from 2002 to 2015we'll call it and uh, you know
just a lot of stories there,that's for sure.
Rocky (32:11):
You know, and I respect that because when you watch that
, game and like you know and Irespect that, because when you
watch that game and like youknow, you got auburn alabama,
you got north carolina and dukeand basketball where they they
hate each other.
Right, they jawed each otherthe whole game and it's like
when you watch army navy play,it's just four quarters of
really physical football andthen at the end of the game when
both teams line up you you seethem hugging each other.
(32:34):
It's like these guys are goingto go to battle when their
career is over and they're goingto be representing our country
and I think that wholeatmosphere, if you watch that
game and you don't get chillswatching it, you're not human,
because I say that is the gamein sports and it just has a
different meaning when you watchit.
Karl (32:53):
Yeah, I totally agree with you there and I'm going to.
I'll ask you to do one thingafter the show is over and
everything.
If you go to YouTube and youpull up the 2019, you can just
type in the search 2019 armyNavy game teaser.
Okay, and this is like theintro to the army Navy game the
Sports puts together every year,and every year they tend to
(33:16):
outdo themselves, but, without adoubt, the best one I saw was
from that 2019 game and it justtook several clips from a speech
that President Kennedy madewhen he was addressing the class
of 63 when they graduated.
And I tell you what you listento that and you don't get a
(33:36):
leaky eyeball.
You're not human.
That's all I can say.
And then, of course, navy wonthe game.
Thank God, because I wouldn'twant to associate such a great
intro with a loss.
But it was really, reallysomething and it speaks exactly
to what you're saying.
I mean, that's just, that'sjust the uh, the feeling that
(33:57):
people get, uh, watching thegame.
And then, of course, like yousaid, when the players are
finished, uh, you know,competing against each other,
they, they serve together andthat is uh, that's something you
don't see anywhere else.
Rocky (34:09):
So and, as carl you and I were talking before we came on
briefly, he's a friend of mine,justin Davis, who was a
linebacker coach there for CoachKen for a while and then he
actually got out of coachingbecause he wanted to start a
family and in the coaching worldat that level you don't have
much time for family time.
You're on the road recruitingand all that, but you know,
(34:30):
coach Ken and I'll say this isthe last couple years from 2020
to 22 were a couple down yearsfor him, but the impact that he
had on that school, not just thefootball program but the entire
university itself.
Karl (34:48):
How much did he mean to that school?
Well, I tell you what.
That was probably one of thebest hires that the outgoing
athletic director made.
Chuck Gladchuck just retiredrecently.
But he first of all, he hiredCoach Johnson back in 2002 to
just basically get the programback on the right track and
Coach Johnson did a terrific jobwith that and I mean we were
(35:09):
lucky to hold on to him for five, seven years or whatever it was
.
But I just knew yeah, it wasseven years, but I just knew
that he was not long forAnnapolis.
He wanted to go to coach at thenext level and, sure enough,
when he went to Georgia Tech,the only thing I said was man, I
hope Gladchuck hires NiaMatalolo, because you got to
have continuity in a programlike this and sure, if that's
(35:30):
what he did so for all thoseyears, it was just nice.
Everybody knew what they weregetting into.
When they came to play at Navy,it was a triple option offense.
It was at the time the defensewasn't the greatest, but when he
hired the new defensivecoordinator, coach Brian
(35:52):
Newberry, back in, you know,prior to the 2019 season that
flipped everything.
And now, to tell you the truth,during those years where Navy
was struggling, it was a defensethat was carrying them to any
win that they got.
It was a defense that wascarrying them to those wins
until the offense could finallyget themselves on track again.
And now you have what I think isthe best of both worlds,
(36:13):
because you have a defense thatis disruptive.
They're opportunistic, they areextremely physical and you put
that together in an offensethat's creative, just really,
really deceptive, and I meanthey can beat you a number of
different ways.
So I think that this past year,that 10-3 record really
(36:33):
reflected that.
Think that that this past year,this 10 and 3 record really
reflected that, and I think youknow my hope is that if the
injury bug stays away, that wecan.
You know that the mids canrepeat.
Rocky (36:41):
You know that that same type of season and you talked
about coach Newberry, who wasthe seventh year at Navy's third
as the head coach, and youmentioned last past season 10
wins.
I think it's a six six time inschool history that they won 10
games in a season.
What's the impact he's had justin his year three as the head
coach?
Karl (37:00):
I think that and this is another I mean it was a great
hire by Coach Niematololobecause I felt like by the time
when, I guess, gladshaw made thedecision to move on from Coach
Ken, which really broke my heart, I didn't really want to see
that Same here.
But, that being said, he madethe right move to hire Coach
(37:20):
Newberry.
I mean, I think that he'dearned the position and I just
felt like, well, we just need tofind somebody to pick the
offense back up and the teamshould be back on its feet in
another couple of years.
And the first year didn't goout that great because the
offensive coordinator just wasnot a good fit for the Naval
Academy.
I mean, I think that and Icould tell this too because I
(37:43):
would watch all the pressconferences and stuff and I
found this out later because Iknew the.
You know, I had interviewed thequarterback's mom a couple of
times and she'd communicatedwith me after the fact that,
yeah, this guy, it was a toughlocker room because he just
didn't understand he couldn'tadapt his coaching style to the
(38:04):
mids schedule.
He didn't understand how well,you only have them for two hours
, that's it okay.
So, you know, figure it out.
And he couldn't do it.
And it got so frustrating and Ithink at some point he might
have lost the locker room.
And so, yeah, coach Newberryhad to make a move.
And then the guy that he endedup hiring, coach Chronic I mean,
he's the one that he wanted inthe first place, but he wasn't
(38:31):
taking no for an answer.
So he went to Gladchuck andsaid, hey, we need to do what we
need to do to get this guy,otherwise I can't make any
promises in terms of what theoffense is going to be.
And Kronick, he overperformed.
I mean talk about exceedingexpectations, I mean, my God.
Rocky (38:48):
And that American Conference too.
Last year you were talkingabout Tulane, but Army won 12
games.
Tulane, but Army won 12 games.
Tulane won nine games.
Memphis won 11 games.
East Carolina won I think sevenor eight.
South Florida won seven andSouth Florida is going to be
better this year than what Ithink people are going to give
them credit for.
But that conference over thelast two or three years has
gotten so much better.
And some of those top teamsthey're putting six seven teams
(39:09):
in bowl games now every year.
Yeah, that's right, they'reputting six seven teams in bowl
games now every year.
Karl (39:13):
Yeah, that's right.
In fact, I think this past yearit was eight and they finished
six and two.
So not too shabby there, and Ithink that they always have
somebody.
I mean they had a few thatmoved on over to conferences
like, for instance, centralFlorida.
But I remember a couple ofyears.
One year Central Florida wentundefeated and I'm not sure if
(39:38):
they made the college football.
I don't think they made thecollege football playoff that
year.
No, they didn't.
But yeah, they'll always have ateam that's threatening to
break into that college footballplayoff.
And now, of course, with 12teams, it's going to be a little
bit easier to make that happen.
So we'll see.
Now a lot of people are talkingabout, you know, was, you know,
is Navy good enough to make theCFP this year?
I said, well, I don't want toget into all that.
(39:59):
Okay, I let me just tell youwhat my goals are as a Navy fan,
right, I mean, I look at theirschedule and I don't.
I'm not one to make predictionsor anything like that, but the
goals are, you know, beat army,win the command and chief's
trophy, which means beat airforce, two, all right, and then,
if they can snag about, youknow, eight or nine wins, that's
(40:19):
great.
Get to a bowl game andpotentially win that, uh, that's
it.
I mean if and I don't reallyget all caught up in the hype of
this, like because a lot ofpeople are talking them up this
past year because they'reundefeated, you know, six games
into the season, but you know,the people who really follow
Navy football understand whatkind of program it is and what
kind of team it is.
(40:39):
They will always be a team thatis going to be borderline top
15 to top 25, right in thatrange.
That's a good, that's a goodsolid program for them, that's a
good season for them.
And who knows, maybe they catchlightning in a bottle one year.
The college football playoffhas 12 teams.
(41:02):
Now Maybe they get that 12thteam, but guess what?
They got to play one of the topseeded teams and that might not
be too pretty.
But you never know.
And, like I said, I, I just likeI like to see them, you know,
play these top programs and and,uh, invariably they will come
away with a win every so I mean,they've, I think they've
(41:23):
probably beaten a top 25 team,uh, more, you know, last, last
year they did because it wasmemphis, and then, uh, they ucf
a couple times.
They beat them two years in arow when they were ranked the
biggest win was probably againstHouston.
About 10 years ago Houston camein ranked sixth.
Navy was coming off a loss toAir Force, which is very
(41:44):
disappointing, but they ended upknocking off Houston and that
was probably their highest.
Yeah, that was the highestranked win since even about the
time I graduated they knockedoff South Carolina.
That was ranked second at thetime.
I still I'm trying to figureout how they won that game.
I actually watched a video ofit on youtube one time.
It was I think the gamecocksjust dressed out a bunch of
(42:05):
their fans as players because,you know, maybe just ran them
right off the field.
Rocky (42:10):
I think the one year you're talking about, when, when
ucf won, they finished 12 andoh, they didn't have the
playoffs then and scott frostwas the head coach and I
remember at the end of theseason ucf celebrated and put a
banner up at the school thatthey won the national
championship.
Um, because at that timeobviously they didn't have the
playoff and they didn't getselected to play in one of the
big.
I think at that time it was oneof the bcs games, right?
(42:31):
So you answered my question onexpectations for this coming
season and I think it's, it'srealistic.
I think last year, you know, atone point in time they were,
they were saying what non-powerfive team now they call it the
power four outside of the top 25has a chance to get into the
playoff?
And I remember they mentionedNavy, they had mentioned Army
because they were bothundefeated and they're on a
(42:53):
collision course.
And I think now, with that12-team playoff I think a lot of
years you would say, well, navyor Army is probably not going
to, or even Air Force isprobably not going to make a BCS
playoff game as a top four.
But now, with that 12 teams,like you said, if you get hot at
the right time, they can squeakout maybe a 10-1, 10 and 2, or
(43:17):
you know.
Karl (43:18):
There there's a realistic chance now for navy in these
teams to get in.
Yeah, you're right.
I mean, a lot would have to gojust about perfect.
I don't think they could affordto lose more than one game.
To your point, I think thatyour call was right on there.
10 and 1, you know, maybe twolost, maybe two losses,
depending on what that secondone is.
But uh, they'd almost certainlyhave to win the conference, um,
and then after that it's justup to the folks in the selection
(43:39):
committee.
But uh, like I said, I mean tome that would be fantastic.
But uh, you know, I'm not goingto lose any sleep if navy
doesn't get into the collegefootball playoff.
Rocky (43:48):
I do tend to lose a ton of sleep if they lose to army,
believe me I'm sure you and alot of the, a lot of the alum
would be the same way for ifthat game, uh, if it doesn't go
your way.
So car the last thing I want toask and I appreciate you jumping
out with me tonight, so we'regoing to go a half hour.
We're a little bit longer thanthat.
What's next for you?
When can?
When can we expect an, apodcast episode to come out?
(44:10):
How can we follow youthroughout the season and even
beyond football season?
Karl (44:14):
Yeah, well, thanks for asking.
Yeah, navy Sports Central is mypodcast and I'm, you know, not
a whole lot going on in thesummer.
Right now I was thinking aboutmaybe using the opportunity to
pull up, you know, maybe reachout to one of the coaches that
you don't hear we don't hear toomuch about.
Like, for instance, this pastyear we had a couple of guys
that won the doubles nationalchampionship in squash of all
(44:35):
sports right, and I think that'dbe kind of cool.
I've not talked about squashyet.
Maybe we do that.
But specifically, I will bedoing a football preview,
probably in about a month, rightbefore the season starts, and
I'll probably have.
I'm going to try and get acouple of my classmates on who
are the team captains when wewere there to kind of, you know,
(44:59):
sum up how the fall practiceshave gone.
I mean how the summer practiceshave gone and, you know, going
into the fall, I think, we openup with VMI and then I think
after that we have a conferencegame against University of
Alabama, birmingham, and then weget into the rest of the
schedule.
But, yeah, so Navy SportsCentral, I'm probably going to
look to record something inabout a month that's football
related and hopefully I'll beable to stick to that.
(45:21):
You know, once every two tothree weeks timeframe that I've
had in the past.
So and I you can follow me onInstagram.
This is CarlDNavy84.
And I think I do have a NavySports Nation handle as well.
So either one of those twothose are the main two places on
Facebook, by the way, and youdon't have to be a Navy grad or
anything like that If you wantto jump on, you can.
(45:43):
But the Navy Sports Nation is aprivate group but you don't,
like I said, you can be just afan of Navy if you just kind of
want to follow some of theirsports.
Some of their sports.
I tend to post there fairlyregularly and all you got to do
is type that into the searchNavy sports nation, answer a
couple of questions to jump in,and we got over a thousand
people.
I'm not saying they're allactive, but we do get quite a
(46:04):
bit of nice engagement on thatwhen it comes to the different
sports, whether it's football,track and field, you know,
whatever's in season.
Rocky (46:11):
Well.
Carl listen I'll.
I'll definitely follow you andwhen you talk some college
football, if you need a co-host,you need a guest to come on and
talk college football, let meknow I'd be more than happy to
come on and chat with you, but Ihope you had fun.
I had a great time chattingwith you, learning a little bit
more about you, and I've been abig Navy and Academy fan for a
long time.
I always pull for all theAcademies and they're fun to
(46:32):
watch, so I really appreciateyou taking the time tonight.
Karl (46:39):
All right, thanks, rocky.
I appreciate you asking and I'mhappy to come back anytime.
And I think this is a reallygood synergistic fit too,
because it's with your depth ofknowledge in college football.
I think we do need to look foran opportunity to do some
reciprocity here.
I think it'll be a lot of fun.
Might be a great way to kickoff the season for Navy.
Rocky (46:51):
Sounds good, let me know I appreciate it, carl.
Thanks for keeping in touch.
Karl (46:54):
Okay, take care.
Bye-bye.
Rocky (46:56):
All right man.
So that was Carl Darden Great,great, great guest.
I've always been fascinatedwith the academies, and not even
just for a college football fan, but just in sports in general.
So give Carl a follow.
I'll make sure I post his blogon my page as well.
Thanks for following me.
Tonight on this podcast, I willpost the first episode of the
(47:18):
46 Power podcast, which iseverything football.
So it could be high schoolcollege NFL.
We got high school footballaround the corner, so I'll be
bringing on the local coaches,like I always do, talking about
the upcoming season.
So stay tuned for that.
Stay tuned for the MohawkValley Sports Watch.
It's not going away.
I've just been busy runningaround with my kids on weekends
(47:40):
and throughout the week withsports, so I'm not going
anywhere.
More to come.
So I appreciate you followingtonight.
Hopefully you enjoyed the show.
As I say on the Rock Pile, theRock Pile is where dreams become
reality.
Have a good evening everybody.
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