What truly separates elite NBA players from the rest? What makes some coaches thrive in professional basketball while others struggle to make the leap? Dean Cooper, veteran NBA coach and front office executive, peels back the curtain on these questions and more in this candid, revealing conversation.
Cooper takes us through his remarkable journey from small-town Michigan to the highest levels of basketball, including his time with the Houston Rockets during both the Hakeem Olajuwon and James Harden eras, his role with the 2006 USA Basketball team under Coach K, and his transitions between coaching and front office positions. With refreshing humility, he admits that his first lesson upon entering the NBA was discovering how little he actually knew about basketball at that level.
The conversation offers rare insights into what professional athletes truly value in leadership. According to Cooper, NBA players don't care about a coach's background, appearance, or pedigree—they care about three fundamental qualities: trustworthiness, competence, and genuine investment in player success. This framework provides valuable lessons for leadership in any field.
Cooper also discusses his book "Fail," which takes an unconventional approach by outlining the toxic behaviors and dysfunctional patterns that cause teams to fail rather than prescribing formulas for success. His perspectives on emotional intelligence, creating healthy team cultures, and the importance of allowing young athletes to experience failure offer wisdom that extends far beyond the basketball court.
Perhaps most compelling is Cooper's passionate endorsement of perpetual curiosity. His advice to "cold call" experts, ask questions without fear of rejection, and remain continuously open to learning exemplifies the growth mindset essential for sustained success. As he powerfully states, "The answer to every question you don't ask is no."
Whether you're a basketball enthusiast, coach, business leader, or simply someone interested in the psychology of high-performance teams, this conversation delivers valuable insights on leadership, emotional intelligence, and the pursuit of excellence.
Thank you for listening!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rocky Corigliano (00:02):
Good evening everybody.
Welcome to tonight's Rockpileedition.
Here we go once again.
The Beyond the Game podcast ison the Rockpile tonight.
Make sure, if you're followingon YouTube and Facebook.
Youtube, just hit the subscribebutton.
I'm glad I made it down heretonight.
My son's game ran over so I wasliterally running down my
stairs here at about 730 to getset up here to go tonight.
But I'm excited to welcomeanother coach.
(00:23):
Coach Dean Cooper is going tojoin me in just a little bit.
Spent a lot of time coaching inthe NBA general manager in the
NBA.
I want to get into hisexperience on the 2006 Olympic
team.
We'll talk to him about that.
Got a book out there.
We'll get into his book andmuch more.
So make sure to stay right here, tuned in to the Rockpile here
(00:44):
tonight.
If you have any questions,comments for Coach or myself,
just put them in the chat.
I'll try to bring over as manyas I can.
So without further ado, let'sbring Coach on.
Coach, let me just straightenus out here.
Get us locked here.
How are you tonight?
Dean Cooper (01:03):
I'm good, I'm good, rocky.
How are you tonight?
I'm good, I'm good, rocky.
How are you?
Rocky Corigliano (01:06):
Not too bad.
As I was just saying as we cameon, I'm fortunate enough I just
made it here in the nick oftime.
I was running down the stepsand I was looking at the clock
the whole time in my son's game.
Normally the modified baseballgames go at least two hours or
seven innings.
Well, they got to the top ofthe seventh and it was right at
two hours and I said please justget three outs and let's go,
let's go home.
(01:26):
So I made it in time, but Iappreciate you jumping on.
Dean Cooper (01:29):
Yeah, what?
Just for clarity, I playedbaseball in college actually, so
it's funny how I started coachbasketball.
But like what, what exactly ismodified?
I'm going to ask the firstquestion of the show Perfect I
like it what?
Rocky Corigliano (01:42):
is modified baseball.
Our way is seventh and eighthgrade.
So back here in Rome we haveseventh and eighth grade is
modified baseball and then theygo right to JVs and varsity
because we don't have a freshmanbaseball team here.
We're like Rome.
Rome Free Academy is like backhere.
We have triple A, double A's, a, b, c's and D's Gotcha.
(02:03):
So we're up in that triple A.
We're one of the bigger publicschools.
Dean Cooper (02:07):
When you said modified, I actually my mind
went to like they start with aone-on-one count or things like
that to like speed up the gameyou know, what I'm saying.
So I wasn't thinking like I'mreally glad I asked now because
I wasn't thinking in it.
I'm really glad I asked nowbecause I wasn't thinking in
terms of age groups at all.
(02:27):
I was like where I grew up inMichigan that would be called
Pony League, right, when you're13, 14, 15.
So I was thinking modifiedmeaning, like oh, it's a one in
one count, or you know thingslike that.
Rocky Corigliano (02:44):
Yeah, we used to have Pony Colt League here
years ago when I was playing andthen they did away with that
and it's all changed now and Iknow before we were talking a
little bit behind.
Before we went live heretonight I had prior to you, I
had Coach Darren Alton, whobasketball coach, and we got
into talking about know his time, coaching and parents,
(03:05):
involvement in sports and justwhere it is today.
And I'm excited to have you onbecause your background you
spent time in college.
You spent time a long time inthe NBA, which we'll get into so
you have a lot of differentperspectives and I'm excited to
to listen to some of your takes.
But for my audience tonightthat follows the show, give us a
little bit about yourself.
Dean Cooper (03:26):
Well, as I mentioned, I grew up in Michigan
, in Western Michigan, justoutside of Grand Rapids, and
played college baseball and, tobe honest with you, I sort of
got into coaching basketball alittle bit on accident.
Uh, is I missed playing and itwas a way in college.
(03:47):
Uh, to keep my uh itch ofbasketball is I.
I sort of just start coachingit as a matter of I missed it
and you know it was a littlemoney in my pocket and
fortunately, the new coach atthe school where I went to
(04:09):
college, not far from where Igrew up, 30, 40 minutes so he
gave me my first chance and as Iwent through it I realized that
my degree is in economics, so Ithink like an economist and I
was going to go to law school.
But I realize and I say thisevery speech I give to kids,
(04:34):
sometimes adults too is I stayedin athletics because I want to
wake up every day and put myhand in the huddle.
It was really that simple.
I wanted to have connectivityand a sense of community and
compete and lo and behold,without giving you the long
(04:55):
story, I was really fortunate.
Early on I coached in highschool, got my first NII job,
which is where I played got myfirst Division I job at the
University of Buffalo, which Imentioned to you as before we
came on the air and then, asluck would have it, I never
(05:17):
thought about being in the NBAand I got.
Fortunate, I got a chance to goto the Rockets in 99, which was
the dream Charles, steveFrancis, coutinho, mobley era,
yao.
And then I coached there andthen transitioned over to the
(05:40):
personnel side for a few years.
When Rudy Tomjanovich gotcancer stepped down from kidney
cancer, stepped down from kidneycancer, stepped down from the
coaching role and I wasfortunate enough to stay in the
organization, transition over tothe personnel side.
So I saw the NBA and rosterprocurement and evaluating
players from a completelydifferent lens, which was a
(06:04):
unique experience.
Then I went back to the coachingside and to Minnesota and
Portland and then, ironically, Ijust went back to the Rockets.
For two years I still had myhouse in Houston with Kevin
McHale, so then that was duringthe Harden era.
So I was there in two prettygood and completely different
(06:27):
eras and I was also.
We were the first team to trulyplay the analytics in the NBA
and I think we had a big impacton how basketball is played, not
just in the NBA from ananalytic standpoint, but it's
(06:48):
filtered down into college andthen became a G League head
coach.
So I did have some headcoaching experience in Utah and
then went to the Bulls and thenback to college for a couple of
years and then the last coupleof years I've been doing
consulting with teams.
I do some tv stuff for espn plus.
Uh, I got some kids that I uhyoung players that I work with
(07:13):
boys and girls around here.
I live in nashville, as you canprobably yeah, just some eyes
from my background here, um, andyeah, and then I uh you, and
then I just stumbled on thisbook and that we mentioned and
we can talk about that in alittle bit.
Rocky Corigliano (07:31):
So that's the cliff note version of my journey
and while doing some researchtonight and I was looking
through some of your your pastand I was watching a lot of your
interviews and one of yourinterviews really stood out to
me the most and it was actually,I think, almost about a year
(08:06):
ago this week.
You went back to your highschool and you I think you spoke
in front of some kids and yougot impact on you when you were
younger were right there andthat means a lot to me because
I'm from Rome here.
Rome, new York, and giving backto my community has been really
special to me in a town that'sbeen so good.
But to see your passion and howmuch it meant to you to go back
home and give that talk, canyou just kind of share that
experience?
What was that like for you?
Dean Cooper (08:24):
Yeah, I mean, I've been back there several times
actually, in giving speeches, Infact, in 2013,.
I was fortunate enough theyactually asked me to.
They must have been reallylooking for low-hanging fruit
because I gave the commencementspeech, but yeah, I was
(08:46):
fortunate.
That class, it's pretty cool.
It's run by one of the footballcoaches.
His name's Joel Matz and he'sbeen there forever.
They actually have a coachingclass in high school and it's
really as much about coaching asit's about leadership.
And that particular day lastyear in fact, you're right, it
(09:06):
was almost exactly a year agothat time I've spoken at it a
few times my high schoolbaseball coach, who had a huge
influence on me, don Momber, andmy high school catcher and one
of the guys I first startedcoaching with, dan Scholten's,
(09:31):
and they were all sittingtogether and, yeah, I mean it
was impactful.
Rocky Corigliano (09:39):
And when you look at you know your time and
you got you coached in collegeand then you went to the NBA and
I think one of the thingsthat's fascinating about the
college game and the nba gametoday is you know, I've been
watching these games and it'slike we're shooting 40 53s a
game.
Everything's played from thethree-point line now that old
school, you know the big guyback and down into the basket.
(10:00):
I feel like those days are longgone.
But for what was the biggesttransition going from the
college game to the NBA?
Dean Cooper (10:08):
Yeah, I tell people this all the time.
College coaches get a littleoffended when I say this,
because I had coached like 13 or14 years before I got to the
NBA and I'd been around.
Yeah, I coached in college.
Pat Knight Coach Knight's sonis, uh, probably my best friend
(10:29):
and I'd been around indiana alot.
So I'd been around likesignificant coaches and I tell
them all the time what's?
They asked me what's the firstthing you learned when you got
in the nba?
I said the first thing Ilearned I knew nothing.
It's just a different game andit's a different like.
(10:49):
The NBA is all.
The closest thing to just beinga basketball coach and I think
probably NF I have some buddieswho are and or were NFL
assistants as well is it's theclosest thing to just being a
coach, because you don't have todo all the other stuff,
(11:11):
including being an NFL headcoach or NBA head coach, where
you have all these ancillaryduties that you have to fill
Like you just go in and everyday and I don't just mean like
tactical basketball in and everyday and I don't just mean like
tactical basketball, it'stactical basketball and, uh,
being a coach as far as likeleaning into your group of
(11:34):
players that you have, um likein the NFL they have position
groups right, so it's kind ofnaturally divided.
In the NBA, you generally getlike three or four guys that you
work with the whole year, andso it part of it is when I say,
just being a basketball coach islike you don't, you don't think
(11:55):
about any of the ancillarystuff.
It's like it's a, it's tactical, and how do I get these guys to
be the best, for these three orfour dudes to be the best
version of themselves?
Rocky Corigliano (12:07):
Well, I think it's like the NFL, right, we saw
Coach Saban step away.
You know this NIL in college.
You know we're seeing more ofthe college guys you know jump
to the NFL and you know when wetalk about basketball I love
Brad Stevens and all these bigjobs in college that came open.
I said if I'm any collegeathletic director in the country
, my first call is to BradStevens with the Celtics.
(12:30):
But then I look.
Exactly what you're saying isthese guys want to stay in the
NBA because they don't have todeal with those types of
headaches in college.
And I feel like we're going tostart to see more of that, where
these guys in college are goingto jump to the NBA if it's an
assistant coach in position,just because of that NIL and how
it's impacted college sports.
Dean Cooper (12:49):
Yeah, I think there's some truth in that.
I think it's, you know,obviously, when I got in in 99,
it just wasn't the case.
Wasn't the case.
(13:09):
I also think that I'm going tocome back to the.
I'm going to come backwardsaround to another part of the
question that you just asked me,but the NFL and college
football.
The reason that I think we'veseen coaches go back and forth
and have similar levels ofsuccess and able to manage it is
, for the most part, in the NFLthere's more games, but the
(13:34):
routine is exactly the same.
It just lasts four weeks longer, right, but it's still one game
a week.
It's you know, just one isplayed on saturday, one's played
on sunday for the most part.
The hardest thing, honestly,when I got to the nba besides
(13:54):
the language and our same gameis like you go from 30 games to
82 and it's like drinking out ofa fire hose, Like I tell people
every day, like coaching theNBA is like taking a.
Every day is like a final exam.
You learn, learn, learn,regurgitate, Learn, learn, learn
(14:15):
, regurgitate.
And I think there hasn't been alot of college coaches
successfully transition to theNBA, not because they're not
good coaches.
I think there's two reasons Onethey generally take over bad
teams.
Right, they don't get theopportunity Like.
(14:38):
Brad Stevens is a great coach,but when he made the transition
he went to a fairly functionalteam.
Agreed and that's not to takeaway from him, but the other
thing that they have a verydifficult time with is managing
the schedule.
It is a complete.
(14:59):
You don't get three days toprepare for a game, or four days
.
It's back-to back or one day inbetween.
It's a totally different lifecycle and how tough.
Rocky Corigliano (15:13):
Yeah, no, completely makes sense.
And I think some of the bestcoaches I mean I look at a guy
like Coach Patino, who didn'thave the greatest success in the
NBA and here he is back in thecollege game having, you know, a
lot of success at uh, at StJohn's.
You've coached a lot ofdifferent personalities and some
big name players and I want toget into your Olympic time in 06
(15:33):
here in just a second.
How tough is it to to coach thedifferent personalities in the
NBA?
You got these guys makingmillions of dollars and you know
whether you're an assistantcoach, head coach.
What separates a lot of thereally good Well, obviously you
(15:56):
have to have talent.
Dean Cooper (15:57):
We can just say that If you're just saying, make
that a standard, you can't winif you don't have a good enough
talent.
Especially in the best leaguesin the world whether that's
soccer or hockey or the NFL orbaseball or any other
professional sport is you haveto have good enough talent to
(16:19):
compete.
But I think where they doseparate themselves is sort of
what I just mentioned is theirability to manage egos and
manage the locker room, likethat's what the best head
coaches do.
Now I get this question a lotfrom coaches, from podcast hosts
(16:44):
, from just people I interactwith.
They'll often ask me like whatis it that NBA players care
about?
You're like how do you coachthem?
Nba players care about You'relike how do you coach them?
And so you're talking to a, aguy who grew up in mid, in the
upper Midwest, just outside ofGrand Rapids, in a town of 4000
(17:04):
people.
I didn't play in the NBA, I'm asix foot one, you know baseball
player, and what I tell him allthe time is this and I think
this is true from talking tosome of my other buddies in
other sports that have coachedin the NFL, major League,
baseball, things like that.
(17:25):
Those players don't care ifyou're black, white, purple,
orange, fat, short, tall hair.
Purple, orange, fat, short,tall hair, no hair.
Here's what they.
They don't care about any ofthose things.
Here's what they care about.
(17:45):
Can they trust you?
Are you gonna lean into themenough to build up trust with
them and put chips in yourbasket so that, on the days that
the tough conversations have tobe had, you have credibility?
The second thing they care aboutis are you competent?
Can you tell me how tonight wegot to get ready to play Boston
(18:12):
in game four of the playoffs, orwe got to get ready to play San
Antonio in game seven of theregular season, or 14, at shoot
around?
Are you competent and are youputting me in the best position
to be successful?
And then, third, they got toknow that you're in it for them
(18:36):
and their best interests and notfor yourself.
If you have those threecomponents your background, if
you played, if you didn't play,your ethnicity, your religious
beliefs, your hair no hair,losing hair.
So your hair, no hair, losinghair they don't care Glasses,
they don't care about any ofthat.
(18:58):
Those are the three things theycare about.
Rocky Corigliano (19:01):
And you've been around a lot of great
players.
And again, I want to get intothe Olympic team with you here
in just a second.
But you know, when I look atthe game today, you see some of
the great players and you knowyou've got LeBron at age 40 40
and you've been around a lot ofgood players.
What makes some of those guysthat you've been around in the
lebron james of the world greatplayers?
What separates those guys fromsome of the rest?
(19:22):
And there's a lot of goodplayers in the nba, but there's
only so many great ones well,you're outside of athletic
talent, right?
Dean Cooper (19:30):
you're not talking about things that god gave them?
I I'm assuming you're nottalking about that because there
are some things like yannis islike part of what he has he
didn't earn.
Part of what lebron has hedidn't earn.
But the things that are in isthe really great ones is their
(19:51):
attention to detail and theirinvestment into being great in
all aspects of their approach,whether that and this is pretty
well documented with LeBron, Ithink, just because of social
media amount of money that hespends a year on his body
(20:14):
maintenance is unbelievable,like millions of dollars, right
From therapists to nutrition to,you know, sleep hygiene.
Sleep hygiene doesn't cost youanything but from a financial
standpoint.
But lack of sleep hygiene forsome of these young guys and
(20:37):
some of them have been I'm notgoing to name them, but have
been well documented when theycome in the NBA.
The guys that are gamers thatare staying up till two, three,
four o'clock in the morning andthen think that they're going to
show up and function the nextday in the NBA.
They're going to show up andfunction the next day in the NBA
.
That's just.
It's like all those things theyinvest in their performance
(21:02):
when they're not on the floor,whether that's nutrition,
whether that's body maintenance,recovery you can go right down
the list of things and thenthere's their competitive drive.
I mean, you know, like the onething you didn't want to do when
, like early on, like if you, ifone of the young cats made
(21:26):
Dream mad, in practice that wasnot going to be a good day for
that guy.
He might score 12 times in arow just to embarrass the guy,
you know.
So I think that's part of whatsets those guys apart, man, and
(21:46):
like the ability to go throughminutiae, like Michael and Kobe
I didn't coach them, but Iwatched them closely.
Steve Nash, like the minutiaand the ability to go over and
over just monotonous things isincredible actually.
Rocky Corigliano (22:09):
So how'd you get your start in the NBA?
How'd you go from college tothe NBA?
Dean Cooper (22:13):
Well, interesting story.
So Jim Boylan, who is now withthe Pacers, and he grew up
fairly close.
He grew up in Grand Rapids.
I grew up just outside of GrandRapids.
He's a few years older than meand then so I knew who he was.
He played on some really goodteams.
He actually played atuniversity of maine, but he also
(22:34):
played on his high school team,was uh like guard thompson, who
played at michigan, and thenhis high school coach is who I
coached with at aquinas.
So we kind of started to get toknow each other.
So I went to houston a coupletimes when I was coaching
college during the playoffs andI got to know Rudy Tomjanovich.
(22:54):
With Jim We'd go out to dinner,have lunch or whatever, and
yeah, like I said, I had nointention.
And then I just got this randomphone call one October evening
at 10 30 at night and it was Jim.
This is just how it happened,to see, not exaggeration.
(23:16):
We were starting practice thenext Saturday.
It's in the old days wheneverybody started on October
15th and I went home from thefootball game there was a night
football game and my phone rangmy course my landline and I
picked it up and it was Jim andhe said hey, what are you doing?
I said, well, I just got homefrom the football and he just
(23:38):
goes.
Good, don't leave, I'm callingyou back.
Click, that was it.
And about 10 minutes later thephone rang and it was him and he
said hey, uh, I got Rudy here.
He wants to ask you a question.
So I thought it was a joke andsure enough, rudy was on there
(23:58):
and he said hey, coop, we have avideo coordinator slash
scouting position open, are youinterested?
Now it's like 11 o'clock atnight, and my answer Rocky was
coach.
That's like asking me if I atnight, and my answer Rocky was
coach.
That's like ask me if I want towake up and breathe tomorrow.
(24:18):
So that, obviously.
And so he laughed and he saidwell, give me your, your boss's
phone number and I'm going tocall and ask him for permission
and he to interview you.
So he called them.
They called me back at about 1230 in the morning.
I was on the phone with uh um,the uh administrative assistant
(24:43):
secretary, and she was bookingme a flight for for the next
morning to go to austin to spendfour days at training camp.
And in the four days I was attraining camp.
Nobody asked me a basketballquestion, not one.
All they wanted to do is knowis could I fit the culture?
And they were going to teach mewhatever I need, which was good
(25:07):
because, like I said earlier, Ithought I knew about basketball
till I got in the NBA and I gotdown.
Knew about basketball until Igot in the NBA and I got down
there, and it was amazingbecause I had to learn a
different language.
It's like imagine being droppedinto the middle of Spain or
Germany or France and you gotTerminology all different.
(25:29):
Yeah, and you don't.
Like it wasn't the summer, noone had time to like give me a
training course, right, like Iwas just immersed because games
in those days you played eightpreseason games.
They probably already hadplayed like three or four.
No one had time to sit aroundand explain language to me.
(25:51):
I just for three months Ididn't know what anybody was
talking about.
Rocky Corigliano (25:57):
You know what, though?
I think that's fascinatingbecause even in the real world
today, like I always say to myteam, I'm like I'll hire
somebody that doesn't have theexperience because I'll teach
them.
You know that I just want tosee if they fit the culture, and
I think that's what makes a lotof good coaches great coaches
is they can teach you the X'sand O's right.
It's tough to mold somebodythat fits the culture that you
(26:21):
want to bring in and fit.
I think that's a fascinatingstory.
Dean Cooper (26:24):
Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you a truth.
So I could, rudy's like my dadslash, uncle slash, mentor,
slash big brother he wears allthese hats for me but and I'm
not going to say the school, butthe year before they called me,
I was there for the playoffsand I had a.
(26:46):
I was coaching at University ofBuffalo and I had an
opportunity at a young, prettyyoung age maybe 28 or nine to go
and be a head coach at adivision two school and I asked
Rudy a question about.
Well, I asked him a lot ofquestions, but in in the
conversation he said somethingthat stood out at the end of it
(27:09):
we're at this place calledDemasi's Greek restaurant and he
said if you don't rememberanything else, I tell you,
remember this.
When you get to be the boss,involvement equals commitment.
If you get people involved inwhat you're doing, they will be
committed to it.
(27:30):
And I thought, oh, that's kindof cool advice, you know,
committed to it.
And I thought, oh, that's kindof cool advice, you know.
And as I I end up not deciding,it wasn't the place that I
wanted to be, so I stayed atBuffalo, fast forward a year and
a half.
Um and uh, we had a I was withthe Rockets for and a lot of
(27:53):
people have platitudes andthings they say but they don't
live them right, like in my book.
I talk about like culture isn'tbanners and and sayings above uh
door posts and things like that.
So it's, it's a, it's a way oflife, like all that.
A way of life, all that fluffstuff.
(28:17):
It looks good, but you betterlive those things.
I'm at the Rockets for like 10days literally, and we have this
emergency meeting afterpractice and we have a chance to
trade dream, and so CarolDawson, our GM, lays out the
(28:38):
scenario and Rudy and Carol thenstart to go around the room and
ask everybody what they think.
Well, they get to me.
I've been there 10 days.
I've been there 10 days.
(28:59):
I'm like coach, I I don'treally think I'm equipped to to.
You know, see, if we shouldmove on from he's.
And he said this.
He said I want you to know, Iwant you to tell me what you
think, because you don't haveany scar tissue or any emotional
things from the other thingsthat the people of here have,
from any interaction with anyplayer, and rudy was would
(29:23):
always give his uh opinion inthose situations last, because
he didn't want to influence, hedidn't want to have and I can
talk all day long about biases,it's part of what I study he
didn't want to have conformityeffect, where you're afraid to
say what you think because theboss already has an opinion.
(29:46):
And I reflected back on that,on that comment about
involvement equals commitment,and I was like this guy lives
what he's saying.
Rocky Corigliano (29:57):
Well, you talk a lot about, um, I know you get
involved in, and I think, oneof your podcasts you talked
about emotional intelligence andand I've been reading a bunch
of stuff on that type of stuff.
Um, so I know that's big, butbut the book that you have, uh,
the book fail.
Um, it's like a playbook.
Right, you taught there it is.
Yep, I got to, I got to ordermine.
(30:18):
What's really neat is some ofthe guests that I've had on
everybody's an author.
They all wrote books.
So I'm going to literally haveabout a handful of books that
I'm going to have to go throughand read.
So I got to make.
I'm going to do a lot ofreading here pretty soon.
But you talk a lot about in thebook, about dysfunctional teams
and toxic behaviors.
Talk a little bit about thebook and how did you come up
with the name and when did youdecide you wanted to write a
(30:41):
book?
Dean Cooper (30:42):
So, yeah, I'll give you the.
I'll try to shrink this down asmuch as I can.
So, for I'm a, I'm a big reader, eh, and I walk about six miles
a day, sometimes a little more,rarely less.
And while I'm reading, as muchas I love music or while I'm
walking, rather, I don't listento music I listen to books.
(31:05):
Besides reading itself, Ilisten to books and I listen to
podcasts.
And most, most and a lot of thatfor about the last six or seven
years has been around emotionalintelligence.
I I'll do a plethora of things,but the bulk of it 80 has been
(31:26):
around behavioral economics andemotional intelligence, because
it was a way for me to invest inmyself.
I'm pretty much like this.
Anyways, it's my personality.
I'm passionate and I have ahigh care factor.
Coaching I'm like this,especially in the NBA.
(31:47):
There's 82 games.
You can't be all over the board.
Those guys will just tune youout.
All over the board, those guyswill just tune you out.
But I think coaches are in direneed of it and I think we're
not good at it, myself included.
So I decided, besides theconsulting, I wanted to have a
(32:09):
product where I could go in anddo workshops or seminars with
athletic departments and itapplies to all sorts of any
business.
But I thought, you know I wantto swim in the pond.
I know best, first right.
That only kind of made sense.
So where can I go four or fivehours, talk to them about how to
(32:31):
create healthy culture,maintain healthy culture?
What do those look like?
Create vertical alignment,create productive feedback loops
, you know, not operate onbiases, not operate on result
bias, not operate onavailability, heuristics and all
these things.
So I'm out, I'm done with theproduct.
(32:51):
I'm out on my walk and I thinkto myself you know everybody
John Gordon, malcolm Gladwell,john Maxwell, stephen everybody
goes in and tells people how tosucceed.
Aside from my resume, which issomewhat unique, what's going to
(33:14):
separate me?
And it just came to me, I'mgoing to go and tell people how
to fail.
No one talks about that.
They tell you how to failforward.
They tell you how to reboundfrom failure.
They tell you how to not beafraid of failure, but no one
tells people just hey, if youwant to fail, just do these
(33:34):
things.
And it will be unusual.
And I'm kind of sarcastic.
I got a satirical, sarcasticpersonality and so I just
started going through thealphabet.
It's an alphabet book, it's anA to Z book, like A is avoid,
(33:59):
you know, and there's here's alist of things of avoid
difficult conversations, avoidholding people accountable,
avoid setting clear expectations.
You know B is blame, you know Cis complacency, g is gossip.
So I just started writing downall these dysfunctional and
toxic behaviors that hold teamsand organizations back, and I
(34:23):
try to do it in my personality,which also just happens to lend
itself to look, we can take theedge off, uh, addressing these
behaviors, but these behaviorsneed to be addressed.
Rocky Corigliano (34:41):
That's how it happened yeah, that's great
because I've had a lot of um.
We've done some youth sportspanels, um on my, on a couple
different podcasts and, and oneof the things I mean.
I grew up with a dad who, asmany of my listeners know it,
coached high school football forover 35 years and my sister's
coached high school field hockeyfor over 25 years.
(35:03):
She played at central Michigan.
I've coached high schoolfootball.
I spent some time coaching AUbasketball, which was an
experience in itself, and I andI think one of the things that I
was taught growing up was it'sokay to fail, learn from your
mistakes, how do you overcome it.
And I think that's a lot of theproblems right now with the
(35:24):
youth sports at any level, noteven just youth sports.
We don't want these kids tofail and a lot of the parents
don't want their kids to fail.
You have to experience somefailure along the way, even in
the real world.
Right, it's okay to fail.
How do you overcome it?
How do you work through that?
I think that's a huge thingright now going on in youth
sports that you know in thepanels and coaches that I've
(35:45):
talked to, and we got to find away to get through and overcome
that stuff.
Dean Cooper (35:50):
Yeah, I agree, and that's not exactly what my
book's about, but we can say onit by the way, central
Michigan's like 50 minutes fromwhere I grew up, so now I grew
up just a little bit betweenGrand.
Rapids and Mount Pleasant.
Yeah, so go chips for yoursister.
But you know, I think in thatregard of failure, I think
(36:15):
you're 100 percent right.
I could go on.
I don't have children, my wifeand I don't, we don't.
I don't have children, so it'soften really easy for me to tell
people how to parent, however Ido, I don't think parenting is
a lot different than coaching,like failure needs to be a part
of it.
I could sit on here for fourhours and talk to you about my
(36:47):
philosophy on helicopter parentsand not allowing kids to fail,
or just even play outside, forthat matter.
I mean, I could go on and on.
So you probably don't want meto do that, but I'm not a fan of
everybody gets a ribbon.
(37:09):
I'm not a fan.
You know, I grew up in a familyof 11 cops, like you know.
Eventually it grew a family of11 cops, like you know, you meet
, you know, and it eventuallygrew to that.
But my dad, my, so, and it wasa pretty straightforward and you
know, uh, no one wants to fail,um, but there is a way to
bounce back from it.
(37:29):
In that regards, like I said,it's not really what my book's
about.
It's more about toxic behaviors.
But what you're talking aboutis, I think, trying to protect
kids and protect their egos andnot have setbacks in my opinion,
and not just my opinion.
(37:52):
I do do a lot, I.
I'm a big listener, I'm a bigreader.
This isn't just dean cooper'sopinion.
There's some, there's somebasis to it is, although it
might protect them on the frontend, we're ultimately, later in
(38:13):
life, setting them up forfailure that they're
ill-equipped to deal withbecause they haven't learned
those mechanisms of failing atthings early on in life.
And now it becomes catastrophic.
It becomes catastrophic.
Rocky Corigliano (38:38):
Yeah, and Dean , that's a great message too,
and again, I people can use thathere in the, in the real world,
not just, not just sportsrelated.
I wanted to jump.
I keep saying I want to jump tothat Olympic team in 06 that
you were, that you were part of.
I got to ask you what was itlike to be around coach K?
Dean Cooper (38:58):
Yeah, it was amazing.
Uh, that was my yeah was myyeah, that was the uh, that's a
bittersweet memory, to be honestwith you.
Um, because it was great beingaround him.
I had brief interactions withhim because, uh, it was shortly
after I had transitioned to thepersonnel side, so obviously I
would had been to games at Dukeand evaluating their players and
having to make calls and getbackground information and
(39:20):
things like that.
But working for him and doingall the game preps that was my
job was put all the film and thegame preps together and go
through those with the assistantcoaches who were Coach Boeheim,
mike D'Antoni and Nate McMillan, who I eventually worked for in
(39:44):
Portland with the Trailblazers.
It was an amazing experienceand just to see how he went
through his process and just theknowledge that he had and then
just being part of, you know,usa basketball was unbelievable
(40:06):
and I would be remiss if Ididn't say this.
And I'm going to say this I'mgoing to like I'm the dick for a
meal of basketball, just so youknow Like I get choked up.
But I'm going to try to say itwithout I'm going to I'm like
I'm the dick for meal ofbasketball, just so you know
like I get choked up, but I'mgoing to try to say it without
and I'm not embarrassed by it,like it's who.
I am, man, I, I, I'm, I wear myemotions, I'm okay with it.
Makes all.
(40:27):
It makes other people a lotmore uncomfortable than it makes
me.
But you know, I didn't serve, Ididn't become a police officer.
So when I got the opportunityto do it, I thought in my head,
I thought, oh, this is prettycool, I'm going to.
This is a chance to serve mycountry.
(40:49):
Well, what I realized throughthe process because we went
overseas it was actually inJapan, but we played in other
places before you get there, andone of the places that we
played was in Korea.
And we are in Seoul and we wentto a base in Seoul, basically
(41:16):
on the outskirts of seoul, anddid our thing and practiced, and
all that two days later we weresupposed to go to the base.
That's seven miles south of thenorth korean border, and there
was a, an issue, and theyweren't going to let us go, and
(41:39):
the player said no, no, no, no,no, we're going.
And this is when these guyswere all young Dwayne Wade, uh,
lebron Carmelo, chris Paul, uh,shane Battier.
Those guys were all prettyyoung.
We had a couple older guys onthe team Antoine Jamison, and a
couple older guys too, but theplayers said no, no, no, no,
(42:01):
we're going.
And when we got there and itwas a totally different
experience, the level of whatwas going on compared to down in
Seoul was, and at that moment Irealized I'm not serving my
(42:25):
country at all, I'm representingit and there's a big difference
.
So it was pretty humbling.
Rocky Corigliano (42:36):
And you've been around a lot of great
moments in sports as a coach, aGM, the front office and all
that and I can't imagine, asyou're talking about
representing the United Stateswith all these countries, did it
hit you at one point when youlooked around and said I'm here
at the at the olympicsrepresenting the united?
(42:57):
I mean, that's a huge moment.
I don't think it gets anybetter than that yeah, it was
the first.
Dean Cooper (43:02):
The first time it was actually the world
championships in 2006, but notthe olympics, but the the first
time that they played thenational anthem.
Mean, for a guy who's alreadyemotional, you know, it was.
I mean, I was, I wasn't.
I didn't have tears, rocky, Iwas bawling, bawling, you know.
Rocky Corigliano (43:30):
So when you look back and you've had a long
and you've had a great careerand, like I said, you've been in
the NBA, you've been in college, you've been in the front
office If given the opportunityagain and you might have had
some opportunities, would youget back into the coaching?
Dean Cooper (43:44):
Yeah, I mean I don't think I said this on the
air, I think I said it before wecame on is, look, I stayed in
athletics because I woke upevery day and I want to put my
hand in the huddle and I want tobe part of a tribe and a
community and things like that,and I really enjoy the things
(44:08):
that I'm doing now.
I like consulting, I love doingthe TV and, you know, working
with kids, but I miss, I missbeing part of being part of
something where you go in andyou problem into them and you
know, just kind of my I got anNBA friend that happens to only
(44:37):
live about 15, 20 minutes southof me here, named Bob Thornton,
and we talk about it all thetime Like he's retired, but
truly retired, but played andcoached in the NBA for a long
time and you just chop it up, ashe likes to say I'll use his
term just going in the officeand and chop it up and those are
(44:59):
.
Those are things I miss, youknow, um, to be honest with you,
like I miss the games cause I'mcompetitive, but I miss
practice and being in thebreakfast room and the lunchroom
and I don't miss the bus.
I do kind of miss the plane.
I hate the bus, I don't knowwhy, but but yeah, those are the
(45:21):
things, besides the fact ofwalking out on that court and
and seeing if we we have, if ourbest is better than your best
tonight.
Yeah, I, I miss those thingsand I, I uh want to do it again
and I'm hopeful that I find theright place and the right place
(45:41):
finds me so last couple things Ihave for you is how can?
Rocky Corigliano (45:45):
how can anybody listening tonight or on
a replay?
How will they be able to findif they want a copy of the book?
Dean Cooper (45:51):
Okay, you can go to uh, my website is space for F?
O R curiositycom, uh, and youcan find the book there you can
read.
There's a section about, likejust my personal history, kind
of my journey, what I'm about,and there's a place on my
professional journey.
(46:11):
I write up a blog on there thatI update every Thursday, which
is all based around.
Well, most of it it's calledNuggets and Reflections.
So the nuggets are like thingsI've read or done that have some
real like back.
(46:33):
There's a lot of things thatback it up.
Most of that's based aroundbehavioral economics, emotional
intelligence that we touched on.
And then I just sometimes, acouple of times, I'll do
reflections where I'm justreflecting on things and it's
about a five to seven minuteread.
I try to keep it to around 500words and it's it's only meant
(46:53):
to to stir your curiosity.
It's not the answers.
I don't want to give all theanswers.
I don't want people to go onthere and feel like they have to
read for a half hour.
I want to just give them anappetizer where they go.
Yeah, man, this is somethingthat I can dive into and maybe
make myself, my organization, myteam better.
(47:17):
You know, I think that I saidthis on a podcast I was on the
other day is people ask me youask me like if I had to point
out something in my career thatI'm the most quote unquote proud
of, is that Olympia being partof the USA team.
Unfortunately, I've never wonthe last game of the year never,
(47:38):
um, because I haven't won achampionship, and that's
something I still want to do.
But besides that, what I whatI'm really proud about is I was
raised and continue to beperpetually curious, and I think
it's important.
I think once you, once you quitbeing curious and trying to
(48:02):
figure out ways to be better,like you know it's, it might be
time to shut it down, and I'mnot sure that day will ever come
for me.
Rocky Corigliano (48:12):
So, Dean, the last thing I was going to ask
you is for the listeners tonight, and again on the replay, what
would be the message you want toleave?
Um, the listeners tonight.
Dean Cooper (48:21):
Yeah, I think just what I just touched on.
I think it's really importantto be, to be curious, like go
out and like I'm a big, I'llgive you a just a fear.
For instance, like, uh, I'llgive you just a few.
For instance, I read all typesof stuff and all over the board
I have certain things, anythingI think can help.
My coaching and developmentobviously is a big part of it,
(48:45):
but I cold call people.
I'm not afraid to.
Now I have a little bit of anadvantage because if I leave my
background or my credentials oremail them, I get it Like I'm
not.
I have a little bit.
Maybe I'm going to say thiscarefully because I don't want
to sound egotistical I mighthave a little bit better chance
(49:06):
of getting somebody just becauseof things I've done or a place
I've been, but like, forinstance you'll probably
appreciate this, having playedand coached football Kevin Kelly
, the no-punt guy that won allthe championships in Little Rock
at Pulaski Academy.
I just cold-called him.
I knew it was based on math, Ibelieve in the math and the
(49:30):
guy's one of my great friendsnow but I knew there was
something to learn from him.
I don't know anything aboutfootball.
In fact, I tell him all thetime don't teach me about
football.
I just want to turn on theMichigan games and the Lions and
just enjoy it as a fan.
I don't want to go into analyticmode but like him, like the
(49:52):
women's coach who was the formerwomen's coach at Florida Golf
Coast, who's now the head coachof the Atlanta Dream, annie Duke
, the card player Just callpeople, man, if you want to know
something.
What I tell young kids theanswer to every question you
don't ask is no.
(50:13):
What's the worst they can say?
Rocky Corigliano (50:17):
No.
Dean Cooper (50:18):
And every question you don't ask is no, no
different than Rudy Tomjanovichwould say the only bad ideas are
the ones that don't come out ofyour mouth.
There will be a lot that comeout that don't work, but the
only bad ones are the ones thatyou keep to yourself because
you're afraid to speak up so Igotta leave you at this.
Rocky Corigliano (50:37):
So here's what a real short story.
So my brother-in-law is frommontague, uh, michigan, oh yeah
and um.
He went to central michigan aswell, and my brother-in-law and
I are diehard michigan footballguys.
I'm a gonzaga basketball fan.
I love mark few and the zagsalways have, always have liked
them.
My wife is a diehard ohio statefan oh my lord so we have the um
(51:02):
down in my basement here wehave the house divided flag and
uh.
So I had bragging rights forthe last four years.
But she got the bragging rightsthis year because they won the
national championship.
But we go at it During thefootball season.
I got to say she got me ticketsto Michigan-Penn State last
year down at Happy Valley, whichwas unbelievable to watch.
But the Michigan ties are deepin my family so we love.
(51:26):
Michigan here.
Dean Cooper (51:28):
Yeah, that's awesome, it's funny.
My wife will tell me and I knowthis about myself you want to
talk about emotionalintelligence and bat at it.
She'll say you get more upsetduring the Michigan games than
you ever get in any game you'veever coached.
I'm like, yeah, I will notwatch the Michigan games in
(51:48):
public, I won't do it.
I watch them at my house.
Rocky Corigliano (51:52):
My brother-in-law watches them in
his basement.
He don't even leave the housebecause he's out.
My sister leaves the housebecause she doesn't want to
listen to him yelling andscreaming.
But we have Michigan ties, myjersey's down here, everything.
So we're big Michigan fans,which is awesome.
But, dean man, listen, it'sbeen awesome.
I feel like I can talk with youall night.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to come on with me and
I hope hopefully you enjoyed itand I'll jump on and order the
(52:15):
book.
Dean Cooper (52:17):
Yeah, well, first of all, I appreciate you having
me on.
Like I mentioned, I've listenedto bits and pieces since we
connected of your podcast.
I think you're doing a greatthing.
I think you're hitting a lot oftopics that that matter and
hopefully people are able toabsorb some real truths about
(52:37):
some certain things and the goodfor you and wish all the best
and, um you know, hopefully thiswill, um, I'm hopeful this
isn't our last interaction.
We'll we'll have a friendshipthat can move forward, cause I I
really I believe in what you'redoing and I think you're doing
it for you know, the purity ofthe right reasons to do them.
Rocky Corigliano (52:58):
Well, I appreciate that.
Yeah, definitely, let's stay intouch and we'll do it again.
Dean Cooper (53:02):
All right.
Rocky Corigliano (53:03):
All right, dean, thank you.
Dean Cooper (53:04):
Thank you, have a great evening.
Rocky Corigliano (53:06):
You got it.
Let me just fix there we go,there we go.
So that was a great.
That was, uh, coach dean cooper, and thanks for for him taking
(53:26):
the time to come on with metonight.
Really enjoyed that greatbackground.
Um, I'll post his website.
I'll post where you you canpurchase his book.
Nba assistant coach was on the2006 team with Coach K who was
the head coach of that worldteam, united States team, part
of the front office, gm.
A lot of coaching experienceand I was doing a lot of
(53:47):
consultant work now.
So hopefully you enjoyedtonight.
I'll post the next guest herein just another week or so.
I'll let you know on the MohawkValley Sports Watch if we'll be
airing this weekend or not.
But again I appreciateeverybody for tuning in tonight.
And on the rock pile, as I say,the rock pile is where dreams
become reality.
Have a good evening everybody.
Good evening everybody.
Welcome to tonight's Rockpileedition.
Here we go once again.
The Beyond the Game podcast ison the Rockpile tonight.
Make sure, if you're followingon YouTube and Facebook.
Youtube, just hit the subscribebutton.
I'm glad I made it down heretonight.
My son's game ran over so I wasliterally running down my
stairs here at about 730 to getset up here to go tonight.
But I'm excited to welcomeanother coach.
(00:23):
Coach Dean Cooper is going tojoin me in just a little bit.
Spent a lot of time coaching inthe NBA general manager in the
NBA.
I want to get into hisexperience on the 2006 Olympic
team.
We'll talk to him about that.
Got a book out there.
We'll get into his book andmuch more.
So make sure to stay right here, tuned in to the Rockpile here
(00:44):
tonight.
If you have any questions,comments for Coach or myself,
just put them in the chat.
I'll try to bring over as manyas I can.
So without further ado, let'sbring Coach on.
Coach, let me just straightenus out here.
Get us locked here.
How are you tonight?
Dean Cooper (01:03):
I'm good, I'm good, rocky.
How are you tonight?
I'm good, I'm good, rocky.
How are you?
Rocky Corigliano (01:06):
Not too bad.
As I was just saying as we cameon, I'm fortunate enough I just
made it here in the nick oftime.
I was running down the stepsand I was looking at the clock
the whole time in my son's game.
Normally the modified baseballgames go at least two hours or
seven innings.
Well, they got to the top ofthe seventh and it was right at
two hours and I said please justget three outs and let's go,
let's go home.
(01:26):
So I made it in time, but Iappreciate you jumping on.
Dean Cooper (01:29):
Yeah, what?
Just for clarity, I playedbaseball in college actually, so
it's funny how I started coachbasketball.
But like what, what exactly ismodified?
I'm going to ask the firstquestion of the show Perfect I
like it what?
Rocky Corigliano (01:42):
is modified baseball.
Our way is seventh and eighthgrade.
So back here in Rome we haveseventh and eighth grade is
modified baseball and then theygo right to JVs and varsity
because we don't have a freshmanbaseball team here.
We're like Rome.
Rome Free Academy is like backhere.
We have triple A, double A's, a, b, c's and D's Gotcha.
(02:03):
So we're up in that triple A.
We're one of the bigger publicschools.
Dean Cooper (02:07):
When you said modified, I actually my mind
went to like they start with aone-on-one count or things like
that to like speed up the gameyou know, what I'm saying.
So I wasn't thinking like I'mreally glad I asked now because
I wasn't thinking in it.
I'm really glad I asked nowbecause I wasn't thinking in
terms of age groups at all.
(02:27):
I was like where I grew up inMichigan that would be called
Pony League, right, when you're13, 14, 15.
So I was thinking modifiedmeaning, like oh, it's a one in
one count, or you know thingslike that.
Rocky Corigliano (02:44):
Yeah, we used to have Pony Colt League here
years ago when I was playing andthen they did away with that
and it's all changed now and Iknow before we were talking a
little bit behind.
Before we went live heretonight I had prior to you, I
had Coach Darren Alton, whobasketball coach, and we got
into talking about know his time, coaching and parents,
(03:05):
involvement in sports and justwhere it is today.
And I'm excited to have you onbecause your background you
spent time in college.
You spent time a long time inthe NBA, which we'll get into so
you have a lot of differentperspectives and I'm excited to
to listen to some of your takes.
But for my audience tonightthat follows the show, give us a
little bit about yourself.
Dean Cooper (03:26):
Well, as I mentioned, I grew up in Michigan
, in Western Michigan, justoutside of Grand Rapids, and
played college baseball and, tobe honest with you, I sort of
got into coaching basketball alittle bit on accident.
Uh, is I missed playing and itwas a way in college.
(03:47):
Uh, to keep my uh itch ofbasketball is I.
I sort of just start coachingit as a matter of I missed it
and you know it was a littlemoney in my pocket and
fortunately, the new coach atthe school where I went to
(04:09):
college, not far from where Igrew up, 30, 40 minutes so he
gave me my first chance and as Iwent through it I realized that
my degree is in economics, so Ithink like an economist and I
was going to go to law school.
But I realize and I say thisevery speech I give to kids,
(04:34):
sometimes adults too is I stayedin athletics because I want to
wake up every day and put myhand in the huddle.
It was really that simple.
I wanted to have connectivityand a sense of community and
compete and lo and behold,without giving you the long
(04:55):
story, I was really fortunate.
Early on I coached in highschool, got my first NII job,
which is where I played got myfirst Division I job at the
University of Buffalo, which Imentioned to you as before we
came on the air and then, asluck would have it, I never
(05:17):
thought about being in the NBAand I got.
Fortunate, I got a chance to goto the Rockets in 99, which was
the dream Charles, steveFrancis, coutinho, mobley era,
yao.
And then I coached there andthen transitioned over to the
(05:40):
personnel side for a few years.
When Rudy Tomjanovich gotcancer stepped down from kidney
cancer, stepped down from kidneycancer, stepped down from the
coaching role and I wasfortunate enough to stay in the
organization, transition over tothe personnel side.
So I saw the NBA and rosterprocurement and evaluating
players from a completelydifferent lens, which was a
(06:04):
unique experience.
Then I went back to the coachingside and to Minnesota and
Portland and then, ironically, Ijust went back to the Rockets.
For two years I still had myhouse in Houston with Kevin
McHale, so then that was duringthe Harden era.
So I was there in two prettygood and completely different
(06:27):
eras and I was also.
We were the first team to trulyplay the analytics in the NBA
and I think we had a big impacton how basketball is played, not
just in the NBA from ananalytic standpoint, but it's
(06:48):
filtered down into college andthen became a G League head
coach.
So I did have some headcoaching experience in Utah and
then went to the Bulls and thenback to college for a couple of
years and then the last coupleof years I've been doing
consulting with teams.
I do some tv stuff for espn plus.
Uh, I got some kids that I uhyoung players that I work with
(07:13):
boys and girls around here.
I live in nashville, as you canprobably yeah, just some eyes
from my background here, um, andyeah, and then I uh you, and
then I just stumbled on thisbook and that we mentioned and
we can talk about that in alittle bit.
Rocky Corigliano (07:31):
So that's the cliff note version of my journey
and while doing some researchtonight and I was looking
through some of your your pastand I was watching a lot of your
interviews and one of yourinterviews really stood out to
me the most and it was actually,I think, almost about a year
(08:06):
ago this week.
You went back to your highschool and you I think you spoke
in front of some kids and yougot impact on you when you were
younger were right there andthat means a lot to me because
I'm from Rome here.
Rome, new York, and giving backto my community has been really
special to me in a town that'sbeen so good.
But to see your passion and howmuch it meant to you to go back
home and give that talk, canyou just kind of share that
experience?
What was that like for you?
Dean Cooper (08:24):
Yeah, I mean, I've been back there several times
actually, in giving speeches, Infact, in 2013,.
I was fortunate enough theyactually asked me to.
They must have been reallylooking for low-hanging fruit
because I gave the commencementspeech, but yeah, I was
(08:46):
fortunate.
That class, it's pretty cool.
It's run by one of the footballcoaches.
His name's Joel Matz and he'sbeen there forever.
They actually have a coachingclass in high school and it's
really as much about coaching asit's about leadership.
And that particular day lastyear in fact, you're right, it
(09:06):
was almost exactly a year agothat time I've spoken at it a
few times my high schoolbaseball coach, who had a huge
influence on me, don Momber, andmy high school catcher and one
of the guys I first startedcoaching with, dan Scholten's,
(09:31):
and they were all sittingtogether and, yeah, I mean it
was impactful.
Rocky Corigliano (09:39):
And when you look at you know your time and
you got you coached in collegeand then you went to the NBA and
I think one of the thingsthat's fascinating about the
college game and the nba gametoday is you know, I've been
watching these games and it'slike we're shooting 40 53s a
game.
Everything's played from thethree-point line now that old
school, you know the big guyback and down into the basket.
(10:00):
I feel like those days are longgone.
But for what was the biggesttransition going from the
college game to the NBA?
Dean Cooper (10:08):
Yeah, I tell people this all the time.
College coaches get a littleoffended when I say this,
because I had coached like 13 or14 years before I got to the
NBA and I'd been around.
Yeah, I coached in college.
Pat Knight Coach Knight's sonis, uh, probably my best friend
(10:29):
and I'd been around indiana alot.
So I'd been around likesignificant coaches and I tell
them all the time what's?
They asked me what's the firstthing you learned when you got
in the nba?
I said the first thing Ilearned I knew nothing.
It's just a different game andit's a different like.
(10:49):
The NBA is all.
The closest thing to just beinga basketball coach and I think
probably NF I have some buddieswho are and or were NFL
assistants as well is it's theclosest thing to just being a
coach, because you don't have todo all the other stuff,
(11:11):
including being an NFL headcoach or NBA head coach, where
you have all these ancillaryduties that you have to fill
Like you just go in and everyday and I don't just mean like
tactical basketball in and everyday and I don't just mean like
tactical basketball, it'stactical basketball and, uh,
being a coach as far as likeleaning into your group of
(11:34):
players that you have, um likein the NFL they have position
groups right, so it's kind ofnaturally divided.
In the NBA, you generally getlike three or four guys that you
work with the whole year, andso it part of it is when I say,
just being a basketball coach islike you don't, you don't think
(11:55):
about any of the ancillarystuff.
It's like it's a, it's tactical, and how do I get these guys to
be the best, for these three orfour dudes to be the best
version of themselves?
Rocky Corigliano (12:07):
Well, I think it's like the NFL, right, we saw
Coach Saban step away.
You know this NIL in college.
You know we're seeing more ofthe college guys you know jump
to the NFL and you know when wetalk about basketball I love
Brad Stevens and all these bigjobs in college that came open.
I said if I'm any collegeathletic director in the country
, my first call is to BradStevens with the Celtics.
(12:30):
But then I look.
Exactly what you're saying isthese guys want to stay in the
NBA because they don't have todeal with those types of
headaches in college.
And I feel like we're going tostart to see more of that, where
these guys in college are goingto jump to the NBA if it's an
assistant coach in position,just because of that NIL and how
it's impacted college sports.
Dean Cooper (12:49):
Yeah, I think there's some truth in that.
I think it's, you know,obviously, when I got in in 99,
it just wasn't the case.
Wasn't the case.
(13:09):
I also think that I'm going tocome back to the.
I'm going to come backwardsaround to another part of the
question that you just asked me,but the NFL and college
football.
The reason that I think we'veseen coaches go back and forth
and have similar levels ofsuccess and able to manage it is
, for the most part, in the NFLthere's more games, but the
(13:34):
routine is exactly the same.
It just lasts four weeks longer, right, but it's still one game
a week.
It's you know, just one isplayed on saturday, one's played
on sunday for the most part.
The hardest thing, honestly,when I got to the nba besides
(13:54):
the language and our same gameis like you go from 30 games to
82 and it's like drinking out ofa fire hose, Like I tell people
every day, like coaching theNBA is like taking a.
Every day is like a final exam.
You learn, learn, learn,regurgitate, Learn, learn, learn
(14:15):
, regurgitate.
And I think there hasn't been alot of college coaches
successfully transition to theNBA, not because they're not
good coaches.
I think there's two reasons Onethey generally take over bad
teams.
Right, they don't get theopportunity Like.
(14:38):
Brad Stevens is a great coach,but when he made the transition
he went to a fairly functionalteam.
Agreed and that's not to takeaway from him, but the other
thing that they have a verydifficult time with is managing
the schedule.
It is a complete.
(14:59):
You don't get three days toprepare for a game, or four days
.
It's back-to back or one day inbetween.
It's a totally different lifecycle and how tough.
Rocky Corigliano (15:13):
Yeah, no, completely makes sense.
And I think some of the bestcoaches I mean I look at a guy
like Coach Patino, who didn'thave the greatest success in the
NBA and here he is back in thecollege game having, you know, a
lot of success at uh, at StJohn's.
You've coached a lot ofdifferent personalities and some
big name players and I want toget into your Olympic time in 06
(15:33):
here in just a second.
How tough is it to to coach thedifferent personalities in the
NBA?
You got these guys makingmillions of dollars and you know
whether you're an assistantcoach, head coach.
What separates a lot of thereally good Well, obviously you
(15:56):
have to have talent.
Dean Cooper (15:57):
We can just say that If you're just saying, make
that a standard, you can't winif you don't have a good enough
talent.
Especially in the best leaguesin the world whether that's
soccer or hockey or the NFL orbaseball or any other
professional sport is you haveto have good enough talent to
(16:19):
compete.
But I think where they doseparate themselves is sort of
what I just mentioned is theirability to manage egos and
manage the locker room, likethat's what the best head
coaches do.
Now I get this question a lotfrom coaches, from podcast hosts
(16:44):
, from just people I interactwith.
They'll often ask me like whatis it that NBA players care
about?
You're like how do you coachthem?
Nba players care about You'relike how do you coach them?
And so you're talking to a, aguy who grew up in mid, in the
upper Midwest, just outside ofGrand Rapids, in a town of 4000
(17:04):
people.
I didn't play in the NBA, I'm asix foot one, you know baseball
player, and what I tell him allthe time is this and I think
this is true from talking tosome of my other buddies in
other sports that have coachedin the NFL, major League,
baseball, things like that.
(17:25):
Those players don't care ifyou're black, white, purple,
orange, fat, short, tall hair.
Purple, orange, fat, short,tall hair, no hair.
Here's what they.
They don't care about any ofthose things.
Here's what they care about.
(17:45):
Can they trust you?
Are you gonna lean into themenough to build up trust with
them and put chips in yourbasket so that, on the days that
the tough conversations have tobe had, you have credibility?
The second thing they care aboutis are you competent?
Can you tell me how tonight wegot to get ready to play Boston
(18:12):
in game four of the playoffs, orwe got to get ready to play San
Antonio in game seven of theregular season, or 14, at shoot
around?
Are you competent and are youputting me in the best position
to be successful?
And then, third, they got toknow that you're in it for them
(18:36):
and their best interests and notfor yourself.
If you have those threecomponents your background, if
you played, if you didn't play,your ethnicity, your religious
beliefs, your hair no hair,losing hair.
So your hair, no hair, losinghair they don't care Glasses,
they don't care about any ofthat.
(18:58):
Those are the three things theycare about.
Rocky Corigliano (19:01):
And you've been around a lot of great
players.
And again, I want to get intothe Olympic team with you here
in just a second.
But you know, when I look atthe game today, you see some of
the great players and you knowyou've got LeBron at age 40 40
and you've been around a lot ofgood players.
What makes some of those guysthat you've been around in the
lebron james of the world greatplayers?
What separates those guys fromsome of the rest?
(19:22):
And there's a lot of goodplayers in the nba, but there's
only so many great ones well,you're outside of athletic
talent, right?
Dean Cooper (19:30):
you're not talking about things that god gave them?
I I'm assuming you're nottalking about that because there
are some things like yannis islike part of what he has he
didn't earn.
Part of what lebron has hedidn't earn.
But the things that are in isthe really great ones is their
(19:51):
attention to detail and theirinvestment into being great in
all aspects of their approach,whether that and this is pretty
well documented with LeBron, Ithink, just because of social
media amount of money that hespends a year on his body
(20:14):
maintenance is unbelievable,like millions of dollars, right
From therapists to nutrition to,you know, sleep hygiene.
Sleep hygiene doesn't cost youanything but from a financial
standpoint.
But lack of sleep hygiene forsome of these young guys and
(20:37):
some of them have been I'm notgoing to name them, but have
been well documented when theycome in the NBA.
The guys that are gamers thatare staying up till two, three,
four o'clock in the morning andthen think that they're going to
show up and function the nextday in the NBA.
They're going to show up andfunction the next day in the NBA
.
That's just.
It's like all those things theyinvest in their performance
(21:02):
when they're not on the floor,whether that's nutrition,
whether that's body maintenance,recovery you can go right down
the list of things and thenthere's their competitive drive.
I mean, you know, like the onething you didn't want to do when
, like early on, like if you, ifone of the young cats made
(21:26):
Dream mad, in practice that wasnot going to be a good day for
that guy.
He might score 12 times in arow just to embarrass the guy,
you know.
So I think that's part of whatsets those guys apart, man, and
(21:46):
like the ability to go throughminutiae, like Michael and Kobe
I didn't coach them, but Iwatched them closely.
Steve Nash, like the minutiaand the ability to go over and
over just monotonous things isincredible actually.
Rocky Corigliano (22:09):
So how'd you get your start in the NBA?
How'd you go from college tothe NBA?
Dean Cooper (22:13):
Well, interesting story.
So Jim Boylan, who is now withthe Pacers, and he grew up
fairly close.
He grew up in Grand Rapids.
I grew up just outside of GrandRapids.
He's a few years older than meand then so I knew who he was.
He played on some really goodteams.
He actually played atuniversity of maine, but he also
(22:34):
played on his high school team,was uh like guard thompson, who
played at michigan, and thenhis high school coach is who I
coached with at aquinas.
So we kind of started to get toknow each other.
So I went to houston a coupletimes when I was coaching
college during the playoffs andI got to know Rudy Tomjanovich.
(22:54):
With Jim We'd go out to dinner,have lunch or whatever, and
yeah, like I said, I had nointention.
And then I just got this randomphone call one October evening
at 10 30 at night and it was Jim.
This is just how it happened,to see, not exaggeration.
(23:16):
We were starting practice thenext Saturday.
It's in the old days wheneverybody started on October
15th and I went home from thefootball game there was a night
football game and my phone rangmy course my landline and I
picked it up and it was Jim andhe said hey, what are you doing?
I said, well, I just got homefrom the football and he just
(23:38):
goes.
Good, don't leave, I'm callingyou back.
Click, that was it.
And about 10 minutes later thephone rang and it was him and he
said hey, uh, I got Rudy here.
He wants to ask you a question.
So I thought it was a joke andsure enough, rudy was on there
(23:58):
and he said hey, coop, we have avideo coordinator slash
scouting position open, are youinterested?
Now it's like 11 o'clock atnight, and my answer Rocky was
coach.
That's like asking me if I atnight, and my answer Rocky was
coach.
That's like ask me if I want towake up and breathe tomorrow.
(24:18):
So that, obviously.
And so he laughed and he saidwell, give me your, your boss's
phone number and I'm going tocall and ask him for permission
and he to interview you.
So he called them.
They called me back at about 1230 in the morning.
I was on the phone with uh um,the uh administrative assistant
(24:43):
secretary, and she was bookingme a flight for for the next
morning to go to austin to spendfour days at training camp.
And in the four days I was attraining camp.
Nobody asked me a basketballquestion, not one.
All they wanted to do is knowis could I fit the culture?
And they were going to teach mewhatever I need, which was good
(25:07):
because, like I said earlier, Ithought I knew about basketball
till I got in the NBA and I gotdown.
Knew about basketball until Igot in the NBA and I got down
there, and it was amazingbecause I had to learn a
different language.
It's like imagine being droppedinto the middle of Spain or
Germany or France and you gotTerminology all different.
(25:29):
Yeah, and you don't.
Like it wasn't the summer, noone had time to like give me a
training course, right, like Iwas just immersed because games
in those days you played eightpreseason games.
They probably already hadplayed like three or four.
No one had time to sit aroundand explain language to me.
(25:51):
I just for three months Ididn't know what anybody was
talking about.
Rocky Corigliano (25:57):
You know what, though?
I think that's fascinatingbecause even in the real world
today, like I always say to myteam, I'm like I'll hire
somebody that doesn't have theexperience because I'll teach
them.
You know that I just want tosee if they fit the culture, and
I think that's what makes a lotof good coaches great coaches
is they can teach you the X'sand O's right.
It's tough to mold somebodythat fits the culture that you
(26:21):
want to bring in and fit.
I think that's a fascinatingstory.
Dean Cooper (26:24):
Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you a truth.
So I could, rudy's like my dadslash, uncle slash, mentor,
slash big brother he wears allthese hats for me but and I'm
not going to say the school, butthe year before they called me,
I was there for the playoffsand I had a.
(26:46):
I was coaching at University ofBuffalo and I had an
opportunity at a young, prettyyoung age maybe 28 or nine to go
and be a head coach at adivision two school and I asked
Rudy a question about.
Well, I asked him a lot ofquestions, but in in the
conversation he said somethingthat stood out at the end of it
(27:09):
we're at this place calledDemasi's Greek restaurant and he
said if you don't rememberanything else, I tell you,
remember this.
When you get to be the boss,involvement equals commitment.
If you get people involved inwhat you're doing, they will be
committed to it.
(27:30):
And I thought, oh, that's kindof cool advice, you know,
committed to it.
And I thought, oh, that's kindof cool advice, you know.
And as I I end up not deciding,it wasn't the place that I
wanted to be, so I stayed atBuffalo, fast forward a year and
a half.
Um and uh, we had a I was withthe Rockets for and a lot of
(27:53):
people have platitudes andthings they say but they don't
live them right, like in my book.
I talk about like culture isn'tbanners and and sayings above uh
door posts and things like that.
So it's, it's a, it's a way oflife, like all that.
A way of life, all that fluffstuff.
(28:17):
It looks good, but you betterlive those things.
I'm at the Rockets for like 10days literally, and we have this
emergency meeting afterpractice and we have a chance to
trade dream, and so CarolDawson, our GM, lays out the
(28:38):
scenario and Rudy and Carol thenstart to go around the room and
ask everybody what they think.
Well, they get to me.
I've been there 10 days.
I've been there 10 days.
(28:59):
I'm like coach, I I don'treally think I'm equipped to to.
You know, see, if we shouldmove on from he's.
And he said this.
He said I want you to know, Iwant you to tell me what you
think, because you don't haveany scar tissue or any emotional
things from the other thingsthat the people of here have,
from any interaction with anyplayer, and rudy was would
(29:23):
always give his uh opinion inthose situations last, because
he didn't want to influence, hedidn't want to have and I can
talk all day long about biases,it's part of what I study he
didn't want to have conformityeffect, where you're afraid to
say what you think because theboss already has an opinion.
(29:46):
And I reflected back on that,on that comment about
involvement equals commitment,and I was like this guy lives
what he's saying.
Rocky Corigliano (29:57):
Well, you talk a lot about, um, I know you get
involved in, and I think, oneof your podcasts you talked
about emotional intelligence andand I've been reading a bunch
of stuff on that type of stuff.
Um, so I know that's big, butbut the book that you have, uh,
the book fail.
Um, it's like a playbook.
Right, you taught there it is.
Yep, I got to, I got to ordermine.
(30:18):
What's really neat is some ofthe guests that I've had on
everybody's an author.
They all wrote books.
So I'm going to literally haveabout a handful of books that
I'm going to have to go throughand read.
So I got to make.
I'm going to do a lot ofreading here pretty soon.
But you talk a lot about in thebook, about dysfunctional teams
and toxic behaviors.
Talk a little bit about thebook and how did you come up
with the name and when did youdecide you wanted to write a
(30:41):
book?
Dean Cooper (30:42):
So, yeah, I'll give you the.
I'll try to shrink this down asmuch as I can.
So, for I'm a, I'm a big reader, eh, and I walk about six miles
a day, sometimes a little more,rarely less.
And while I'm reading, as muchas I love music or while I'm
walking, rather, I don't listento music I listen to books.
(31:05):
Besides reading itself, Ilisten to books and I listen to
podcasts.
And most, most and a lot of thatfor about the last six or seven
years has been around emotionalintelligence.
I I'll do a plethora of things,but the bulk of it 80 has been
(31:26):
around behavioral economics andemotional intelligence, because
it was a way for me to invest inmyself.
I'm pretty much like this.
Anyways, it's my personality.
I'm passionate and I have ahigh care factor.
Coaching I'm like this,especially in the NBA.
(31:47):
There's 82 games.
You can't be all over the board.
Those guys will just tune youout.
All over the board, those guyswill just tune you out.
But I think coaches are in direneed of it and I think we're
not good at it, myself included.
So I decided, besides theconsulting, I wanted to have a
(32:09):
product where I could go in anddo workshops or seminars with
athletic departments and itapplies to all sorts of any
business.
But I thought, you know I wantto swim in the pond.
I know best, first right.
That only kind of made sense.
So where can I go four or fivehours, talk to them about how to
(32:31):
create healthy culture,maintain healthy culture?
What do those look like?
Create vertical alignment,create productive feedback loops
, you know, not operate onbiases, not operate on result
bias, not operate onavailability, heuristics and all
these things.
So I'm out, I'm done with theproduct.
(32:51):
I'm out on my walk and I thinkto myself you know everybody
John Gordon, malcolm Gladwell,john Maxwell, stephen everybody
goes in and tells people how tosucceed.
Aside from my resume, which issomewhat unique, what's going to
(33:14):
separate me?
And it just came to me, I'mgoing to go and tell people how
to fail.
No one talks about that.
They tell you how to failforward.
They tell you how to reboundfrom failure.
They tell you how to not beafraid of failure, but no one
tells people just hey, if youwant to fail, just do these
(33:34):
things.
And it will be unusual.
And I'm kind of sarcastic.
I got a satirical, sarcasticpersonality and so I just
started going through thealphabet.
It's an alphabet book, it's anA to Z book, like A is avoid,
(33:59):
you know, and there's here's alist of things of avoid
difficult conversations, avoidholding people accountable,
avoid setting clear expectations.
You know B is blame, you know Cis complacency, g is gossip.
So I just started writing downall these dysfunctional and
toxic behaviors that hold teamsand organizations back, and I
(34:23):
try to do it in my personality,which also just happens to lend
itself to look, we can take theedge off, uh, addressing these
behaviors, but these behaviorsneed to be addressed.
Rocky Corigliano (34:41):
That's how it happened yeah, that's great
because I've had a lot of um.
We've done some youth sportspanels, um on my, on a couple
different podcasts and, and oneof the things I mean.
I grew up with a dad who, asmany of my listeners know it,
coached high school football forover 35 years and my sister's
coached high school field hockeyfor over 25 years.
(35:03):
She played at central Michigan.
I've coached high schoolfootball.
I spent some time coaching AUbasketball, which was an
experience in itself, and I andI think one of the things that I
was taught growing up was it'sokay to fail, learn from your
mistakes, how do you overcome it.
And I think that's a lot of theproblems right now with the
(35:24):
youth sports at any level, noteven just youth sports.
We don't want these kids tofail and a lot of the parents
don't want their kids to fail.
You have to experience somefailure along the way, even in
the real world.
Right, it's okay to fail.
How do you overcome it?
How do you work through that?
I think that's a huge thingright now going on in youth
sports that you know in thepanels and coaches that I've
(35:45):
talked to, and we got to find away to get through and overcome
that stuff.
Dean Cooper (35:50):
Yeah, I agree, and that's not exactly what my
book's about, but we can say onit by the way, central
Michigan's like 50 minutes fromwhere I grew up, so now I grew
up just a little bit betweenGrand.
Rapids and Mount Pleasant.
Yeah, so go chips for yoursister.
But you know, I think in thatregard of failure, I think
(36:15):
you're 100 percent right.
I could go on.
I don't have children, my wifeand I don't, we don't.
I don't have children, so it'soften really easy for me to tell
people how to parent, however Ido, I don't think parenting is
a lot different than coaching,like failure needs to be a part
of it.
I could sit on here for fourhours and talk to you about my
(36:47):
philosophy on helicopter parentsand not allowing kids to fail,
or just even play outside, forthat matter.
I mean, I could go on and on.
So you probably don't want meto do that, but I'm not a fan of
everybody gets a ribbon.
(37:09):
I'm not a fan.
You know, I grew up in a familyof 11 cops, like you know.
Eventually it grew a family of11 cops, like you know, you meet
, you know, and it eventuallygrew to that.
But my dad, my, so, and it wasa pretty straightforward and you
know, uh, no one wants to fail,um, but there is a way to
bounce back from it.
(37:29):
In that regards, like I said,it's not really what my book's
about.
It's more about toxic behaviors.
But what you're talking aboutis, I think, trying to protect
kids and protect their egos andnot have setbacks in my opinion,
and not just my opinion.
(37:52):
I do do a lot, I.
I'm a big listener, I'm a bigreader.
This isn't just dean cooper'sopinion.
There's some, there's somebasis to it is, although it
might protect them on the frontend, we're ultimately, later in
(38:13):
life, setting them up forfailure that they're
ill-equipped to deal withbecause they haven't learned
those mechanisms of failing atthings early on in life.
And now it becomes catastrophic.
It becomes catastrophic.
Rocky Corigliano (38:38):
Yeah, and Dean , that's a great message too,
and again, I people can use thathere in the, in the real world,
not just, not just sportsrelated.
I wanted to jump.
I keep saying I want to jump tothat Olympic team in 06 that
you were, that you were part of.
I got to ask you what was itlike to be around coach K?
Dean Cooper (38:58):
Yeah, it was amazing.
Uh, that was my yeah was myyeah, that was the uh, that's a
bittersweet memory, to be honestwith you.
Um, because it was great beingaround him.
I had brief interactions withhim because, uh, it was shortly
after I had transitioned to thepersonnel side, so obviously I
would had been to games at Dukeand evaluating their players and
having to make calls and getbackground information and
(39:20):
things like that.
But working for him and doingall the game preps that was my
job was put all the film and thegame preps together and go
through those with the assistantcoaches who were Coach Boeheim,
mike D'Antoni and Nate McMillan, who I eventually worked for in
(39:44):
Portland with the Trailblazers.
It was an amazing experienceand just to see how he went
through his process and just theknowledge that he had and then
just being part of, you know,usa basketball was unbelievable
(40:06):
and I would be remiss if Ididn't say this.
And I'm going to say this I'mgoing to like I'm the dick for a
meal of basketball, just so youknow Like I get choked up.
But I'm going to try to say itwithout I'm going to I'm like
I'm the dick for meal ofbasketball, just so you know
like I get choked up, but I'mgoing to try to say it without
and I'm not embarrassed by it,like it's who.
I am, man, I, I, I'm, I wear myemotions, I'm okay with it.
Makes all.
(40:27):
It makes other people a lotmore uncomfortable than it makes
me.
But you know, I didn't serve, Ididn't become a police officer.
So when I got the opportunityto do it, I thought in my head,
I thought, oh, this is prettycool, I'm going to.
This is a chance to serve mycountry.
(40:49):
Well, what I realized throughthe process because we went
overseas it was actually inJapan, but we played in other
places before you get there, andone of the places that we
played was in Korea.
And we are in Seoul and we wentto a base in Seoul, basically
(41:16):
on the outskirts of seoul, anddid our thing and practiced, and
all that two days later we weresupposed to go to the base.
That's seven miles south of thenorth korean border, and there
was a, an issue, and theyweren't going to let us go, and
(41:39):
the player said no, no, no, no,no, we're going.
And this is when these guyswere all young Dwayne Wade, uh,
lebron Carmelo, chris Paul, uh,shane Battier.
Those guys were all prettyyoung.
We had a couple older guys onthe team Antoine Jamison, and a
couple older guys too, but theplayers said no, no, no, no,
(42:01):
we're going.
And when we got there and itwas a totally different
experience, the level of whatwas going on compared to down in
Seoul was, and at that moment Irealized I'm not serving my
(42:25):
country at all, I'm representingit and there's a big difference
.
So it was pretty humbling.
Rocky Corigliano (42:36):
And you've been around a lot of great
moments in sports as a coach, aGM, the front office and all
that and I can't imagine, asyou're talking about
representing the United Stateswith all these countries, did it
hit you at one point when youlooked around and said I'm here
at the at the olympicsrepresenting the united?
(42:57):
I mean, that's a huge moment.
I don't think it gets anybetter than that yeah, it was
the first.
Dean Cooper (43:02):
The first time it was actually the world
championships in 2006, but notthe olympics, but the the first
time that they played thenational anthem.
Mean, for a guy who's alreadyemotional, you know, it was.
I mean, I was, I wasn't.
I didn't have tears, rocky, Iwas bawling, bawling, you know.
Rocky Corigliano (43:30):
So when you look back and you've had a long
and you've had a great careerand, like I said, you've been in
the NBA, you've been in college, you've been in the front
office If given the opportunityagain and you might have had
some opportunities, would youget back into the coaching?
Dean Cooper (43:44):
Yeah, I mean I don't think I said this on the
air, I think I said it before wecame on is, look, I stayed in
athletics because I woke upevery day and I want to put my
hand in the huddle and I want tobe part of a tribe and a
community and things like that,and I really enjoy the things
(44:08):
that I'm doing now.
I like consulting, I love doingthe TV and, you know, working
with kids, but I miss, I missbeing part of being part of
something where you go in andyou problem into them and you
know, just kind of my I got anNBA friend that happens to only
(44:37):
live about 15, 20 minutes southof me here, named Bob Thornton,
and we talk about it all thetime Like he's retired, but
truly retired, but played andcoached in the NBA for a long
time and you just chop it up, ashe likes to say I'll use his
term just going in the officeand and chop it up and those are
(44:59):
.
Those are things I miss, youknow, um, to be honest with you,
like I miss the games cause I'mcompetitive, but I miss
practice and being in thebreakfast room and the lunchroom
and I don't miss the bus.
I do kind of miss the plane.
I hate the bus, I don't knowwhy, but but yeah, those are the
(45:21):
things, besides the fact ofwalking out on that court and
and seeing if we we have, if ourbest is better than your best
tonight.
Yeah, I, I miss those thingsand I, I uh want to do it again
and I'm hopeful that I find theright place and the right place
(45:41):
finds me so last couple things Ihave for you is how can?
Rocky Corigliano (45:45):
how can anybody listening tonight or on
a replay?
How will they be able to findif they want a copy of the book?
Dean Cooper (45:51):
Okay, you can go to uh, my website is space for F?
O R curiositycom, uh, and youcan find the book there you can
read.
There's a section about, likejust my personal history, kind
of my journey, what I'm about,and there's a place on my
professional journey.
(46:11):
I write up a blog on there thatI update every Thursday, which
is all based around.
Well, most of it it's calledNuggets and Reflections.
So the nuggets are like thingsI've read or done that have some
real like back.
(46:33):
There's a lot of things thatback it up.
Most of that's based aroundbehavioral economics, emotional
intelligence that we touched on.
And then I just sometimes, acouple of times, I'll do
reflections where I'm justreflecting on things and it's
about a five to seven minuteread.
I try to keep it to around 500words and it's it's only meant
(46:53):
to to stir your curiosity.
It's not the answers.
I don't want to give all theanswers.
I don't want people to go onthere and feel like they have to
read for a half hour.
I want to just give them anappetizer where they go.
Yeah, man, this is somethingthat I can dive into and maybe
make myself, my organization, myteam better.
(47:17):
You know, I think that I saidthis on a podcast I was on the
other day is people ask me youask me like if I had to point
out something in my career thatI'm the most quote unquote proud
of, is that Olympia being partof the USA team.
Unfortunately, I've never wonthe last game of the year never,
(47:38):
um, because I haven't won achampionship, and that's
something I still want to do.
But besides that, what I whatI'm really proud about is I was
raised and continue to beperpetually curious, and I think
it's important.
I think once you, once you quitbeing curious and trying to
(48:02):
figure out ways to be better,like you know it's, it might be
time to shut it down, and I'mnot sure that day will ever come
for me.
Rocky Corigliano (48:12):
So, Dean, the last thing I was going to ask
you is for the listeners tonight, and again on the replay, what
would be the message you want toleave?
Um, the listeners tonight.
Dean Cooper (48:21):
Yeah, I think just what I just touched on.
I think it's really importantto be, to be curious, like go
out and like I'm a big, I'llgive you a just a fear.
For instance, like, uh, I'llgive you just a few.
For instance, I read all typesof stuff and all over the board
I have certain things, anythingI think can help.
My coaching and developmentobviously is a big part of it,
(48:45):
but I cold call people.
I'm not afraid to.
Now I have a little bit of anadvantage because if I leave my
background or my credentials oremail them, I get it Like I'm
not.
I have a little bit.
Maybe I'm going to say thiscarefully because I don't want
to sound egotistical I mighthave a little bit better chance
(49:06):
of getting somebody just becauseof things I've done or a place
I've been, but like, forinstance you'll probably
appreciate this, having playedand coached football Kevin Kelly
, the no-punt guy that won allthe championships in Little Rock
at Pulaski Academy.
I just cold-called him.
I knew it was based on math, Ibelieve in the math and the
(49:30):
guy's one of my great friendsnow but I knew there was
something to learn from him.
I don't know anything aboutfootball.
In fact, I tell him all thetime don't teach me about
football.
I just want to turn on theMichigan games and the Lions and
just enjoy it as a fan.
I don't want to go into analyticmode but like him, like the
(49:52):
women's coach who was the formerwomen's coach at Florida Golf
Coast, who's now the head coachof the Atlanta Dream, annie Duke
, the card player Just callpeople, man, if you want to know
something.
What I tell young kids theanswer to every question you
don't ask is no.
(50:13):
What's the worst they can say?
Rocky Corigliano (50:17):
No.
Dean Cooper (50:18):
And every question you don't ask is no, no
different than Rudy Tomjanovichwould say the only bad ideas are
the ones that don't come out ofyour mouth.
There will be a lot that comeout that don't work, but the
only bad ones are the ones thatyou keep to yourself because
you're afraid to speak up so Igotta leave you at this.
Rocky Corigliano (50:37):
So here's what a real short story.
So my brother-in-law is frommontague, uh, michigan, oh yeah
and um.
He went to central michigan aswell, and my brother-in-law and
I are diehard michigan footballguys.
I'm a gonzaga basketball fan.
I love mark few and the zagsalways have, always have liked
them.
My wife is a diehard ohio statefan oh my lord so we have the um
(51:02):
down in my basement here wehave the house divided flag and
uh.
So I had bragging rights forthe last four years.
But she got the bragging rightsthis year because they won the
national championship.
But we go at it During thefootball season.
I got to say she got me ticketsto Michigan-Penn State last
year down at Happy Valley, whichwas unbelievable to watch.
But the Michigan ties are deepin my family so we love.
(51:26):
Michigan here.
Dean Cooper (51:28):
Yeah, that's awesome, it's funny.
My wife will tell me and I knowthis about myself you want to
talk about emotionalintelligence and bat at it.
She'll say you get more upsetduring the Michigan games than
you ever get in any game you'veever coached.
I'm like, yeah, I will notwatch the Michigan games in
(51:48):
public, I won't do it.
I watch them at my house.
Rocky Corigliano (51:52):
My brother-in-law watches them in
his basement.
He don't even leave the housebecause he's out.
My sister leaves the housebecause she doesn't want to
listen to him yelling andscreaming.
But we have Michigan ties, myjersey's down here, everything.
So we're big Michigan fans,which is awesome.
But, dean man, listen, it'sbeen awesome.
I feel like I can talk with youall night.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to come on with me and
I hope hopefully you enjoyed itand I'll jump on and order the
(52:15):
book.
Dean Cooper (52:17):
Yeah, well, first of all, I appreciate you having
me on.
Like I mentioned, I've listenedto bits and pieces since we
connected of your podcast.
I think you're doing a greatthing.
I think you're hitting a lot oftopics that that matter and
hopefully people are able toabsorb some real truths about
(52:37):
some certain things and the goodfor you and wish all the best
and, um you know, hopefully thiswill, um, I'm hopeful this
isn't our last interaction.
We'll we'll have a friendshipthat can move forward, cause I I
really I believe in what you'redoing and I think you're doing
it for you know, the purity ofthe right reasons to do them.
Rocky Corigliano (52:58):
Well, I appreciate that.
Yeah, definitely, let's stay intouch and we'll do it again.
Dean Cooper (53:02):
All right.
Rocky Corigliano (53:03):
All right, dean, thank you.
Dean Cooper (53:04):
Thank you, have a great evening.
Rocky Corigliano (53:06):
You got it.
Let me just fix there we go,there we go.
So that was a great.
That was, uh, coach dean cooper, and thanks for for him taking
(53:26):
the time to come on with metonight.
Really enjoyed that greatbackground.
Um, I'll post his website.
I'll post where you you canpurchase his book.
Nba assistant coach was on the2006 team with Coach K who was
the head coach of that worldteam, united States team, part
of the front office, gm.
A lot of coaching experienceand I was doing a lot of
(53:47):
consultant work now.
So hopefully you enjoyedtonight.
I'll post the next guest herein just another week or so.
I'll let you know on the MohawkValley Sports Watch if we'll be
airing this weekend or not.
But again I appreciateeverybody for tuning in tonight.
And on the rock pile, as I say,the rock pile is where dreams
become reality.
Have a good evening everybody.
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