June 23, 2025 • 65 mins
Tony Reali brings listeners behind the scenes of his remarkable 23-year journey at ESPN in this candid, reflective conversation about sports broadcasting, personal growth, and authentic connection.
Starting with his early days at Fordham University's WFUV radio station, Reali shares how being told his Jersey accent "wasn't good for the Bronx" became just one of many moments where constructive criticism shaped his broadcasting evolution. His transition from play-by-play to hosting wasn't planned but emerged organically from his personality and conversational style, eventually leading to his breakthrough role on "Pardon the Interruption" before becoming the face of "Around the Horn" for nearly 5,000 episodes.
What truly distinguishes this conversation is Reali's philosophical approach to sports television. He reveals the intentional artistry behind "Around the Horn," from the purposefully inexplicable scoring system ("because life scores us all differently every day") to creating a show that mirrored Sunday family dinners where passionate debates ended in deeper connections. His hosting philosophy evolved from showcasing sports knowledge to facilitating genuine human moments – making "Around the Horn" feel less like a television program and more like conversations with friends.
Perhaps most powerfully, Reali discusses his willingness to bring his full self to television, including discussions of anxiety and grief. His transparent sharing about the stillbirth of his son Amadeo demonstrates how vulnerability can create meaningful connections even through a sports show. As he reflects on his final "Around the Horn" episode and placing the mute button on the floor, Reali expresses not bitterness but gratitude and triumph at the journey.
Looking ahead, hear why Reali feels drawn to create content that strengthens family bonds through sports, particularly between fathers and children. His vision for using the car rides to and from games as moments of connection reveals his continuing belief in sports as a vehicle for something much more profound than just entertainment.
Ready to explore how great sports television gets made? Press play and discover the thoughtful philosophy behind one of ESPN's most beloved personalities.
Thank you for listening!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rocky (00:01):
Good evening everybody.
Welcome to another live editionhere on the Rockpile.
Tonight I'm excited to talk toa longtime host on ESPN, Tony
Reali.
He's going to join me in just aminute and Tony and I were just
talking a little bit behind thescenes and he covered me while
I was at Fordham.
So a lot of people were askingme questions last week and
tonight and I got to get into itwith Tony.
(00:22):
They're asking well, you got toget into ESPN last week into
tonight and I got to get into itwith Tony.
They're asking well, you got toget into ESPN.
I'm like forget ESPN.
I want to get into the Fordhamyears with Tony and let him go
down memory lane.
So I'm really excited to havehim on here tonight.
So if you're watching onYouTube, make sure to hit
subscribe.
Twitter, linkedin, wherever youfollow us, I continue to the
posties, so I'm really excitedto bring him on, so I'm not
(00:42):
going to keep him waiting.
He's got better things to dothan talk to me tonight, so
let's get him on there's noplace in the world I'd rather be
than right here, right now Iappreciate that man.
How are you?
Tony (00:53):
I'm doing.
Great man.
I love remember when I knowthere's a soprano's joke.
It's the lowest form ofwhatever.
I miss nostalgia.
Nobody does nostalgia like theyused to, and what we just did
right now, remembering the 2000fordham rams, oh and 11.
Ah, yeah, that, that was.
(01:14):
That was a year.
I remember well dave clausen,who has turned into.
We knew it then.
We knew it then.
One of the great minds,offensive minds, especially in
college football, and you gotand you got to learn at the
chalkboard from him.
Rocky (01:27):
You know what, tony, when I got recruited.
This is really weird, because Inever played for the guy that
recruited me.
I don't know if you rememberNick Cattaro.
Tony (01:36):
I remember Nick Cattaro yeah, my first year.
Rocky (01:39):
He was a coach too, yeah, he leaves, he goes to, I think,
iowa State, and then KenO'Keefe comes in from.
Allegheny.
Tony (01:48):
Yeah, in Allegheny he leaves.
Rocky (01:50):
Dave Klaassen comes in and I'll tell you what.
And I tell Dave Klaassen thisall the time because when I went
down to visit my wife's familydown in Raleigh this was a few
years ago and Dave Cohen, whowas the defensive coordinator
when I was at Fordham, was oneof his assistants I went to
visit him down at Wake forspring practice.
Tony (02:08):
Yeah.
Rocky (02:09):
And we were talking, I said you know what People hated
Coach Claussen when he firststarted?
Because he was tough.
Tony (02:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Rocky (02:15):
He brought in a lot of his own guys.
But we knew right then, andthere he was, a young guy.
Tony (02:19):
I knew it then, and there too, at 0-11,.
I knew it then and there too,at 0-11,.
I knew the type of character hewas putting out there.
I do remember one thing that hereminded me of just this past
year not directly, through afriend of mine who was calling a
Wake Forest game.
Was that it's possible?
I was late for my first meetingwith him, I do think.
Bob Hill the basketball coach,former NBA coach, I kept me long
(02:42):
in a meeting with him, and hereI was late for my first meeting
with Dave Klausten, which heremembered to this day.
I remember him talking to meabout how he loved the slot
receiver position.
Jerry McDermott was playing thatfor him of course, and would go
on to have a record-breakingseason in the years ahead and
how he really maximized that.
(03:04):
But these are the things youremember, Rock.
He maximized that for aposition.
One advantage he wanted to playat was the slot position.
I remember that to this day.
It didn't affect how I hostedaround the horn, but I'll bet
Spiro Didis, another colleagueof ours, friend of ours, does it
when he's calling CBS NFL gamesright now.
(03:25):
Rocky, I believe that.
Rocky (03:28):
Tony, I had a lot of people that were like, oh, you
got to get into Rialia and ESPN,which we will, and I've watched
a lot of the interviews withyou, the last couple, you've
been on just about every podcastradio show.
Tony (03:38):
As you know, I didn't do interviews for about four years
three years I operated in forbetter or worse you know a world
where I wanted to let the workspeak for itself and I knew how
taxing that's not a bad thing,but I had to put it all in 100%
into the work every day.
So I did a lot of interviews inthe last month, as you're
(04:01):
referring to.
Rocky (04:03):
And a lot of people said you're going to get into all the
SPN and I will.
But I said you know what theshows that I've done?
And I interviewed Rob Manfordnot long ago, who's from Rome,
new York, which is where I'mfrom, and the thing I like about
what I do is I want to hear thestories.
You've had the ups, the downsand of course, you've got
interviewed by a lot of big timepeople and we'll get into all
that stuff.
But your story I've beenfollowing since we got out of
(04:25):
college.
Yeah, it's been fascinating andI want you to just start.
Tony (04:29):
It has been a fun story to put together, but even goes
back to their college days, sorocky.
You and I are together, uh, forfor two years at fordham I'm
calling the games for fordhamfootball and fordham basketball,
which was a dream of mine.
It's still know, it's not mycurrent dream, but play-by-play
Yep, calling a football game,calling a basketball game, is
(04:50):
the closest thing I think youcan really get to playing in the
game.
It really is.
I mean, especially inbasketball.
You're on the floor of the game, you know, and you're feeling
the beat of the ball and you'resweating through it.
Calling a football footballgame, you're up in the box and
and and you're hyper focused,like a coach is.
I mean, you're literally in thebox next to the coaches.
I loved hearing the defensivecoaches pounding, pounding the
(05:14):
desk, you know, when we weregetting a turnover forced right
there.
Um, you know that is a greatfeeling.
So I I went to ford solely withthe purpose to call games right,
because that's what Michael Kaydid of the New York Yankees,
that's what Bob Papa did of theNew York Giants, that's what
Chris Carino and Mike Breen ofNBA teams had done.
(05:34):
So that was the dream.
But I was also now having anopportunity to work at a
50,000-watt radio station in NewYork.
But even then, rocky, in thatmoment I'm doing newscasts on
90.7 FM as the sports guy and Iwas asked to be.
I was pulled off of the radiobecause of my delivery, the way
(05:55):
I talk.
Maybe my Jersey accent at thetime was just not good for the
Bronx.
It wasn't good enough at thatlevel.
So which I introduced this tosay as much as I had a dream.
I have a dream job, of course,but I had a dream.
I got the call saying we needyou to fill in one day and it
all played out and I got to dothe dream show with it, one of
(06:18):
those crazy fluky lucky hookups.
Even through it all, there arestill always moments that you
have to work on your craft.
You have to take that call thatsays you're going to need to
stop down and work on your gamea little bit.
Espn did the same with me.
We'll get to it in a second.
Well, I'll do it right now.
(06:39):
They brought in a voice coachas well.
They brought in a voice coachmy first year of Around the Horn
, so this is my second time.
Now I'm being really forced toaddress I would say it was my,
my charm but also how I need toget my energy under control a
little bit, because I'm a bigenergy guy and rocky mate.
(06:59):
You, you, you operate on aslowly different, different pace
, right, and maybe you know youhave to get up for certain
moments when you're doing abroadcast.
I had to learn to get down alittle bit because my personal
energy needed to come down alittle bit so I didn't get
carried away in my voice,because I had a call once.
You would have been on thefield in this game Do you
(07:20):
remember Holy Cross?
And there was a block kick thatgot returned and a fumble on
the return and went back, sothey were missed.
Have been 150 yards of ball on aplay here and I ended with Holy
Cross.
You can't say, I don't rememberexactly, uh, what happened on
the play, but my voice must havebeen, you know, at three
(07:43):
octaves above what you wouldwant on the call in that moment.
Um, so these are the types ofthings that I'm just saying.
You can get to the highestlevels.
Rocky (07:52):
You always got to work on your craft so everybody jokes
with me because I'm about 45minutes from syracuse university
and we always get into thesegreat arguments and obviously so
many great journalists andbroadcasters from syracuse.
Tony (08:04):
But I get the guys that always say I like our chance.
There's the Fordham guy.
Rocky (08:08):
Give me the Fordham guys in a fight, man.
There's a lot of big time andwe'll get into a lot of the
Fordham guys.
But take me back to Fordham too, because one of the things I've
always said people have askedme um, you know, play-by-play
guy versus somebody that couldhost a show.
I've always liked hosting stuff.
Play-by-play is really tough.
There's a lot of goodplay-by-play guys.
(08:28):
When did you know you wanted toget out of that part of it and
do the show part?
Tony (08:31):
Well, I think it was my personality got myself out of
that.
You know, I was just a littletoo big in a room and even in a
call of a game, you know Ienjoyed what became the back and
forth you may have seen betweenmyself and Kornheiser and
Wilbon, or myself and Woody Pageand Bob Ryan, and I would try
(08:53):
to, even though I couldn'tprobably articulate it at the
time, work that into a broadcast.
So at Fordham it is a cradle ofplay-by-play guys, first and
foremost right, and Syracuse hasthat.
And then Syracuse has alsohosts that go through the Bob
Costas, mike Tirico line.
(09:14):
I would say While they doplay-by-play very, very well,
tirico outstanding inplay-by-play, I think they're
really at their best in hosting.
I've had a chance to even worknext to Tariq once.
It took my breath away when Isaw him do a read, you know,
because there's that muchcontrol over your voice and
getting into a script, right.
But for me, you know I workedwith Marty Glickman is the name
(09:40):
of a famed Hall of Fameplay-by-play announcer.
Before our time called theKnicks and the Giants, a little
bit in our time called the NewYork Jets, and this was another
voice of my youth, but reallyour parents' youth and he was
coming to Fordham University'scampus once a week rolling up
(10:02):
those sleeves and that tie andthat shirt collar was starched,
perfect.
He was a pro's pro as anannouncer and he even told me
Anthony, anthony, with thatvoice, you're never going to get
national and Anthony, anthony,with that delivery, you're
talking a little bit, too muchconversation, not enough time
(10:22):
and score.
He was a big proponent becausehe did a lot of radio, not not
so much tv but more radio, andthat you got to paint in the
viewer's mind, or the listener'smind, I should say, getting the
radio brain.
Um, the time and the score, youknow, um I was doing, I was
doing too much conversational,so it became a natural
progression.
But it chose me out.
(10:43):
Honestly it really did, becauseof of those lucky phone calls
and those lucky conversationsyou find yourself in the night
before a telecast.
They need somebody to fill inand I happened to be that guy
one day.
Rocky (10:56):
Now, Tony, was there another school other than
Fordham that was in play for you, or was it always Fordham?
Tony (11:00):
It was always Fordham.
I may have applied to otherschools and just for the sake of
doing that, fordham was my only.
I mean, I was on the radiowithin a week, or at least in
the radio room, within a week,on air within a month.
It was a singular focus for me,rocky.
Since I was five years old, Iwanted to be a broadcaster.
(11:23):
I've said this and I'll saythis again.
I say it.
You know, I had a fakemicrophone and I would be in
front of the TV, and even nowI'm watching games with my
middle Enzo, my middle child,and you know he says he wants to
be a sportscaster.
I think because he wants to,you know, be like his old man,
but I think he really wants tobe a YouTuber, which is exactly
(11:44):
what I would be doing if I wereof this generation and I think
it's one of the most amazingthings.
Right, I had a.
Really, you know, I did have arecorder at some point in my
high school years and I did gothrough some of these.
Really, you know, I would tryto do broadcasts when I was in
high school in a verbal speech,you know, effective speaking way
(12:05):
in a class for speaking.
But the reality was I wasn'treally recording and showing it,
disseminating in any way.
Now you can have your ownYouTube channel.
You know I would be.
I mean, I would be outsidewatching recreational soccer and
calling those games If I was 12or 14 right now.
No doubt, no doubt.
Rocky (12:24):
I used to call the old nintendo.
This is funny because I had.
I don't know if you remembermark carney was the quarterback,
my one of my roommates yeah andhe's now filling in as the head
coach at kent state oh, Ididn't know he is yep.
So I had him on not too longago and we're talking.
He goes.
You know, rock.
I remember when we used to playum all the football, all the
college and all that, maddensand all that.
Tony (12:45):
Yeah, I think you're right with this.
I did this too, you're right.
Rocky (12:47):
He goes.
You used to broadcast like youwere calling a Madden game he
goes.
I always knew you'd want to bebehind the mic.
It's just been a passion.
Tony (12:56):
This is a conversation of people of our nature.
I can mention another name fromFordham because I just saw him
recently Andrew Bogish.
Rocky (13:03):
Yeah.
Tony (13:07):
I name from Fordham because I just saw him recently,
andrew Bogish.
I know I'm best friends withthe guy across the street from
him growing up in Queens andhe's like I knew Bogish, and he
used to do the announcing of ourwiffle ball games.
I'm like I was doing the samething.
It's a very interestingcharacter trait to also want to
describe what you're doing.
And you know I mean you could,I know broadcasters, the heights
of the game, who, who, for fun,just do the play by play of
(13:30):
their family waking up andgetting breakfast in the kitchen
, just just to keep that patternof speech going, because it
really is a act, reaction typejob.
Hosting is different Hosting, Imean, I know, rock, you have
some questions, maybe you havein mind, maybe you haven't
written down on a piece of paper, but I know you have to
(13:51):
actively be listening to meright now.
That's a skill, a muscle.
You have to kind of really workand it's a different thing, the
act of listening.
I knew what it took me when Iwas 25, when I filled in
overnight on Around the Horn andI knew you know, other than
nerves, that Iificate or justhave an opinion on TV and people
(14:13):
were going to ride with that.
I knew I really wanted to get toa place where I could actively
(14:37):
listen to the panelists and thenmake them prove why their
opinion is the right opinion ontoday's game show, because
Around the Horn was had amechanism of game show and that
took that, took years to reallyfeel, and who knows if I would
have been given that time orwhat, just the way it worked out
.
I mean, some TV shows don'tmake it six months, so so I, if
(15:00):
I had to go back to my, to myself, I would have done it the
same way and I would have saidthe advice is keep on plugging
away, but be an active listener.
When you're a host which is notkind of your first intuition
when you want to get into thebusiness, you just want to talk,
you have big, big opinions, youhave energy to you or you want
(15:23):
to describe what you're seeing,but actively listening,
listening, is the key to tohosting.
Rocky (15:28):
It's an odd thing to say so how'd you get started with
espn?
When you left fordham, I mean,you started off at espn.
You were a kid and here youwere, 20 something years later.
You know a grown, a grown adultchildren.
How'd you get landed at ESPN?
Tony (15:44):
The day after the graduation at Fordham, I was
working at Channel 11, a localNew York institution, wpix.
I was writing the sportscastsor editing tape and helping
write, along with Sal Marciano,the longtime New York anchor,
and also Sean Kimmerling, who issince the late Sean Kimmerling,
(16:08):
but I was writing their scriptsand I loved that job.
But I was only able to getabout 20 hours a week.
So I'm like this is the timeyou make that decision, riali.
You go to Iowa and you callminor league baseball.
To Iowa and you call minorleague baseball.
And there was just somethingyou know in the back of my head
that said you know, stay in NewYork and try to work in TV,
(16:33):
whether you're on air.
First prove that you can doanything on a show and then
maybe you can go about it thatway.
I started submitting a writingsample for a trivia game show
that happened to be on ESPN.
This was a spinoff of the gameshow who Wants to Be a
Millionaire.
It was a show calledMillionaire.
Drill so you rememberMillionaire being the biggest
(16:53):
show in the world and there wasenergy around.
Let's see if we can expand this.
And who loves trivia more thansports fans?
Rocky (17:01):
Was Kenny Mayne the host.
He absolutely was.
Tony (17:06):
Yes, I remember, was he the host?
He absolutely was.
Yes, I remember this show hadmany of the great notes and
touches of who wants to be amillionaire, lights and music,
but it also had a little bit ofa timed mechanic.
It was called the two-minutedrill and trivia.
While it's very effective whenit's timed, we also were
utilizing professional athletesto read the questions.
So I was writing thesequestions.
(17:27):
But you write a question andit's a challenging question, but
it's also challenging then fora non-professional to read it in
the time that they needed toread it in for the person who
was competing to have the bestchance of winning.
So the show went three seasonsand then they said thanks,
(17:48):
that's a good three-year run.
And at that moment, just in theoffice, in her office bulletin
board or maybe email, I heard ofa show that was starting in
Washington DC called.
Well, at that moment I'm noteven sure if it was called
Pardon the Interruption, but itwas definitely going to be based
in DC around Tony Kornheiserand Mike Wilbon, and you've done
(18:10):
the writing now for Anchorsbefore and for Trivia Questions.
Would you want to do theresearch and be part of the
debate-making show Pardon theInterruption?
I interviewed for that job.
That's how I came to work forESPN show.
Part of the interruption.
I interviewed for that job.
That's how I came to work forespn.
I came to work for the pti show, which is still the number one
show of its kind on the network.
(18:30):
Proud will always be part ofthat family.
It's.
It's.
It's a debate show that Ilearned at the feet of two
expert sports columnists right,the premier sports columnist in
the country.
But I learned something aboutTV and what we call content now
Rock, and you know this too.
(18:51):
You're doing a show solo and youhave a guest and some of your
guests you know and you have adynamic.
We know each other.
Those guys weren't just friends, they weren't just
mentor-mentee, they weren't evenjust brothers from another
mother.
They were a married couple.
Tv works on dynamics.
You show me those two guys in anewsroom for five seconds.
(19:12):
You walk into that newsroom.
You would have walked outsaying that's a TV show.
Right there, those guys are ateach other's throat, but they're
also, they have an ability tolove each other and I love that,
love, that dynamic.
You know where you can be atblows with somebody and then
also be embraced in a hug by theend of it.
(19:33):
That's that to me.
So I was writing and researchingthat show at 23 years old and a
week before that show is aboutto launch.
I'm going at it with those guysin the newsroom over silly
debates that we're havingWhatever who's better?
You know, larry Bird or MagicJohnson, right, they were happy
to have that debate for thehundredth time.
(19:54):
And then I chimed in the airand I made my case Like this is
interesting, this guy's goingfor it.
But then, secondly, you know, wehad to work on the camera
people a little bit.
The camera shots.
Tony and Mike wanted to sit inthe chair just for a few seconds
.
Then I sat in their chair and Ishowed something that I showed
at FUV, which was some chops.
(20:15):
I had done call-in shows, I haddone my games, I was
comfortable with a microphone infront of me and they made me
the sidekick.
This is a week before we wentto Air Rocky.
This is right when you knowthis show's about to take off.
I wasn't expecting to be thesidekick, but if you'd asked me,
it would have been a dream.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Rocky (20:37):
And that's how much work went into behind the scenes to
put that show on.
Tony (20:40):
I mean that day, that show both of the shows I worked on
were nine to five days, 40-hourweeks, in an office.
But you have to watch sportsfor a living.
You have to go out cover gamesfor Cornheiser and Wilbon or
myself.
I would go out to games, youknow, on occasion, but not as
much as those other guys would.
So the actual show doesresemble a work day, you know,
(21:03):
but it resets every day.
When I threw that paper ball atthe camera or when we said you
know, we'll try to do bettertomorrow on PTI.
Now we do it on a Googledocument, right?
You have a living, breathingdocument that you're just adding
sports stories, clips that yousee over the night.
(21:25):
So typically I would bewatching my games at night for
three hours and putting stuffinto our Google Doc, as would
another producer or two or theresearcher, so the show.
And then I would be watching myeight hours of football on
Sundays and college football aswell.
So I don't know there was nohour number my eight hours of
football on Sundays and andcollege football as well, you
know.
So I don't know if there therewas no hour number.
(21:47):
I don't know what the 23 and ahalf hour break I know it wasn't
really a break Cause you had towatch your sports.
You can't I mean, I'm not evertired of watching sports.
I'm not jaded to this day we'regoing to get to having to say
goodbye to a show like Aroundthe Horn.
That was my living breathingheart, rocky, and I think the
(22:09):
show could be going on right nowand I think you know it's taken
me a couple weeks ofdecompressing.
There's a reason why You're thesecond interview I've done
since I've gotten off the show.
The other was Dan Levitard,another friend of mine.
You know I'm not ready to justeven unpack all of it, but I am.
I mean, let's be honest, I'mexcited for my future.
(22:30):
I know I'm going to have aplace in this industry that I'm
going to enjoy and I've got to aspace where I'm not like I
don't want to just get a chair,I want to build the next chair.
That's where I am right now.
But I know I just watched theNBA finals, you know, wrap up in
a game, seven, and there was somuch in that game to unpack and
(22:51):
I didn't get to do a round thehorn the next day and that's
just like that's something I'vedone for 20, 23 years and I had
to say goodbye in the middle ofthe NBA playoffs and I'm just
like, oh, you know, I still gotthese things I wanted to talk
about, you know, and I'm justlike oh, you know, I still got
these things I wanted to talkabout, you know, yeah, yeah.
Rocky (23:10):
So did you ever get that wow moment?
I mean, you get out of Fordham,you know you get PTI, you're
behind the scenes, stat boy, andyou know you're in front of two
absolute legends in the sportsworld.
Did you ever sit back and say,wow, this is real, yeah.
Tony (23:21):
I mean, I believed it, you know, achieve it.
You know, believe it andachieve it.
I believed by the time I tookthat meeting and then they said
we're going to make you thesidekick.
I mean I watched ESPN every dayof my life.
That I can remember, you know,growing up let's take it to age
(23:43):
11, when we got cable or so,right, age 12.
So at 12, and then I was 23.
So it's only been 11 years, butI had done, you know, a
master's course in sports fandomalready.
You know I had watched ESPNSportsCenter probably three
times, the same telecast,probably three times a day.
(24:03):
I was at Fordham, to the pointwhere you can memorize it.
I had I've certainly been inplaces because of my role at
WFUV, where I had interviewedboth you, rocky and Derek Jeter
on the same weekend, you know,and Bavon Robin and Greg Griffin
(24:25):
and Mike Piazza on the sameweekend.
I was covering the Yankees andthe Mets and the Giants and the
Jets.
You know, when I was at Fordhamas the station beat reporter.
So I had been around WorldSeries games and then, and by
extension, elbow to elbow withBob Ryan and Frank Isola guys, I
would then do a thousand TVshows with Amazing right.
(24:47):
So I had proximity to the bigsof the business at a very young
age.
So I didn't have any like wow,pinch me, I'm here.
Moment because I had alreadygotten that at Fordham, which is
why, again, I put the Fordhamyou know broadcasting and school
of communications up againstanything I had been with the
(25:08):
pros by just sheer.
You know you're in New York,you're covering the Yankees.
You know If you're in Syracuseyou're having a great time
covering, you know, the Big Eastat that time and a great
program.
But I was covering the WorldSeries for the Yankees.
So the long story is.
The long story that I just gaveyou is a short answer.
(25:31):
I felt it, I believed it.
I thought the show was greatfrom the first weekend.
As much as Cornizer and I have ahealthy cynicism or skepticism
to stories and things like that.
Contrarians, I've used oftenWilbon.
I think we all knew that theshow was really solid and I
(25:56):
began to spread my wings in waysthat were just not the sidekick
on the back end of the show.
I started to now use a produceracumen.
I had to do some of the gamesegments we have Because I, like
you know, I like hard-hittingsports news and I also like
goofy stuff.
I'm a personality guy, so I lovethe idea that Cornelizer and
(26:17):
Wilbon would dress as cops.
We would play good cops badcops, you know, and that was my
idea.
I said let's get them in theoutfits and we'll figure out a
game after that.
You know Odds makers and what'sthe word, which is just
basically Mad Libs.
But I wanted smart guys to usebig words to describe the news
(26:38):
of the day.
To me, it was fun building outthe show like that.
So that's where my focus washow can I really put these guys
in a position to win?
And the show got even better asthe year or two went on.
Rocky (26:53):
And around the horn.
You were a guest on the shownumerous times, right, you would
guest host it numerous times.
That's a different thing.
Tony (27:00):
I didn't have the bravado or I mean other than I knew I
was on the next show.
So audience may know me, butwhen I got a phone call saying
can you?
Or even a knock on the doorbecause we were in the studio
next door, they said we have aproblem with our studio today.
Can you fill in for TimKalashaw?
And I was supposed to be asports opiner in that moment.
(27:25):
The first seven times I filledin on Around the Horn, that one
was, those were nerves.
That one was like yeah, I haveto come off as an expert, right,
and in your mind you're likeI'm gonna fake it until I make
it, but I don't know if that'sthe best strategy.
I wish you know I mean I wouldadvise anybody and I do, and you
know I would pass this adviceon to you now as a host of a
(27:47):
show, but I do it with, uh, youknow, an example would be any
new panelists we would have hadon around the Horn.
I want you to be yourself, andI know I wasn't being myself
when I was in those firstappearances on Around the Horn.
I was trying to be what Ithought people wanted the
panelists or host to be, right.
And while that is anunderstandable strategy, you
(28:09):
know I would say for my own, youknow I was noisier than I
wanted to be.
You have a great title hereMute the Noise.
You know I would say for my own, you know I was noisier than I
wanted to be.
You have a great title hereMute the Noise.
You know I can be loud, I haveno problem with volume, but
there's a lot of noise thatcomes with my train of thought.
I want to get everything out.
I want to show you how smart Iam at all moments.
(28:32):
That's what I was trying to doat 23, 25, and I was guesting on
Around the Horn and it took,you know, intention to kind of
try to scale that back a littlebit and think of one or two
things you want to do, even inan answer, and not try to give
(28:52):
you an eight answer.
You know a topic answer right.
Does that make sense?
You're trying to do too muchand sometimes less is more.
Rocky (29:02):
You know I look at the media today and you're fortunate
you were at.
You know you had around thehorn for so many years and I
look at the media today versusthe media from you know when you
got into the business what?
Over 20 years ago, even longerthan that.
What do you think?
What are some of the biggestchanges that you see?
Nowadays?
There's much more competition.
Tony (29:19):
Sure sure.
Rocky (29:20):
You're probably the biggest free agent out there,
but what's changed on your end?
How much has changed?
Tony (29:25):
I mean even the nuts and bolts of it.
Right, I mean, how we consumesports is a little bit different
now, but even how, let's say, asports fan consumes highlights
and discussion, in my first five, ten years of Around the Horn,
I think I was writing highlightreads where you're describing
what happened because you didn'tassume everybody watched the
(29:47):
game, because not all games were, you know, and then you're
breaking down games.
Now it's much more reactive andyou know somebody has seen the
highlights.
I mean the viewer's experienceis much more reactive.
You've seen the highlightsimmediately on Twitter or you
have already, and now you'retrying to approach the topic a
(30:09):
little bit differently.
So I think how people consumesports has dictated that,
certainly around the horn andPTI before it, first and
foremost, you know, began asaturation of market on sports
debate, which is not a bad thing.
I don't believe sports debate,you know, needs to be one thing.
(30:29):
It can be all things right,right, I?
By that I mean you know you canhave former athletes talking
about it and you can havereporters talking about it.
I believe you can have, youknow, fans even, and I I do
think where we're at theprecipice, uh, of being in a
place where, where the viewerand the fan has a voice involved
(30:51):
in in the greater media becauseof what social media has become
.
So I think that to me, honestly, social media is probably the
biggest change.
I mean, uh, that has happenedin the greater sports fans
experience because they feelthey have a voice now.
They do have a voice now andand that's wonderful and there
still will be a place for peoplewho are journalists and, of
(31:14):
course, athletes.
And I still am bullish on theindustry.
I still am.
I know some of my friendsbelieve sports media is broken
and I believe there are moreopportunities to get more voices
out there.
That's always a good thing.
Rocky (31:28):
Who have been some people whether it's in the industry,
not in the industry that havekind of been role models for you
.
Tony (31:35):
Well, I have inspiration.
I mean, I'll say that first andforemost, I went from trying to
gauge what sportscasters Iadmire and like, and some of
those names are names of you, Ofcourse.
You know Ernie Johnson.
I liked his broadcasting stylein some ways.
Now we're not the same guy inthat I am, my energy runs at a
(31:56):
different level, let's say andhe is cool and even keeled in
some ways, and maybe I admirehim quite a bit and everything I
seem to know about hischaracter.
But what I most admire from,and I took from his sports
hosting Ackerman is that hesubscribed to a school that was,
or ascribed to a school thatwas.
(32:17):
The host is the point guardright, which is you know, you
set up the play and now pointguards, of course, shoot from 35
feet and NBA is different andthat's a little bit different
analogy.
Now in today's game, but let'scall it the center Snaps the
ball, sets up the lead block andlets the panel, the guest hosts
(32:40):
, whoever you are your co-pilotsto operate, and I like that
type of hosting on very manyshows.
A show like this show is alittle bit different.
You have to host, you have toreally pilot the ship the whole
way.
But I took Ernie Johnson andScott Van Pelt as two role
(33:00):
models that I really liked fromthe hosting side of things.
I always liked the way ScottVan Pelt hosted golf shows in
particular, golf casts inparticular, and then I've come
to admire hosts from outside ofsports and found value in that
just as much.
So I would say there was adelineation in my hosting of
(33:21):
Around the Horn.
Even I grew up as an adult onTV, honestly, and I became a
husband and a father and thathad an enormous impact, as it
does, on everyone's life.
But I really allowed that tohave an impact on my
professional life in some ways.
But the reality was I went frombeing a stat-crazed,
(33:43):
game-crazed sports fan who was ahost who loved that part of it,
to loving people, which Ialways did, but loving people
and feelings.
And then I realized this was adifferentiator, both for myself
as a host and for maybe evenaround the horn, as a TV show,
(34:04):
in that and this is something Iwould pass on to anyone in the
industry or any industry you'rereally in.
What makes you you, what makesyou special and let's all admit
you're special you have your jobfor a reason.
Let's go ahead, be the moviestar in your own movie, right?
(34:25):
This is not an ego thing.
I use a term self-full.
You're not going to havecontrol over your life, but you
have to go with life and be theactive participant in your life.
So I began myself trying to beas humble as I could be, because
(34:46):
that's how I was raised to beright In the role, while you're
even on BTV.
Be humble, right, okay.
And I did that for and I stilldo parts of that, but for 10
years.
That really motivated me.
But what I realized was myskill was being the unique
person that I was.
I feel like anybody could be asports crazed fan Okay.
(35:11):
Anybody could be a know-it-allabout sports Okay.
Anybody could be a know-it-allabout sports Okay.
Anybody could be a high energy,positive guy Okay.
But I know how I am with people, how I feel about other people,
how I want to put other peoplein a position where they know
they have my attention, myenergy, my goodwill, and I'm
going to now make whatever we'redoing better.
(35:32):
Right, that is a skill now thatI'm comfortable saying I have.
I put other people in positionto win and I love the feelings
that come with that.
Where do we have feelings in theworld more than sports?
You know, we all love sportsbecause we're chasing the
feeling.
You you as a player in youryouth, you know chase the
feeling of that adrenaline youfelt playing or laying a hit on
somebody, picking, picking theball off or outsmarting.
(35:55):
You know a quarterback andsaying you didn't think you knew
I would, where were you goinghere?
And I let you, you know, throwthe ball there and then I picked
it off right.
Or solving the puzzle, returninga kick right.
You loved the feeling that camewith it.
Well, I love the feeling thatwe had shared watching that game
, reliving that emotion when wehad that game, and that's when I
really began to tap into andaround the horn.
(36:16):
So then, a long answer to yourquestion.
I found inspiration from hostswho put feelings in front of
their guests, and to me that wasone guy who was a chef by the
name of Anthony Bourdain Reallyliked his show, liked the way he
told stories and liked the wayhe unified people through
cooking.
And I thought I can do thatthrough sports and I've slowly
(36:39):
did that in some ways in Aroundthe Horn and wherever I'm going
next, I think that's a place Iwant to occupy too, that
connection with an audience.
Rocky (36:47):
What was that last week like for you leading up until I
know you?
Obviously, I watched that lastshow and we'll get into that.
But what was that last weeklike for you up until I know you
?
Tony (36:55):
I, I, obviously, I watched that last show and we'll get
into that.
But what was that last weekLike for you just thinking, yeah
man, I had eight months knowingit was coming.
I'm always thinking I couldchange their mind, you know.
Rocky (37:04):
And you really never got an answer right.
Tony (37:06):
Well, I mean yeah, I mean we could say that I mean I have
an answer, I don't have ananswer, and I mean an answer and
I mean I'm almost I'm happy totalk about with you, uh, but
I've I've moved on from it, butI'm just, I my, my point is I
was I'm very sure that thenetwork wanted to go in a
(37:27):
different direction, but I knewthe other parts of it, that our
show was working.
You, know, whatever, whatevermetric you want to use to
describe working.
I know our show is working onsome levels right, so I always
thought I could change theirmind.
When it became clear theyweren't going to change your
mind, I thought I want to go out.
Nobody really ever gets to goout the way they want to go out,
but I came as close as somebodycould, which is to say I
(37:50):
brought back just abouteverybody who was on the show in
some way.
So we can I mean we couldn'tbring back everybody but in real
time show what gratitude is,because I wanted to show people
the emotion, the sentiment andthe feeling of gratitude While
(38:10):
talking about the biggest topicsin the world.
He never lost sports along theway, but that last week being
able to get Jackie McMullen backon and get Bob Ryan back on and
put Woody Page in the rightfulplace that he deserved to be in
Bill Plaschke that was importantto me.
And then showing the seeds thatthose guys planted, that led to
(38:32):
many other names and faces andhave risen to the heights of our
industry the Mina Kynes andGeorge Sedano and Israel
Gutierrez and Clinton Yates andthese people.
So I want to make sure that theaudience knew that, the impact
they had on our show, that theyknew the impact they had on me
and vice versa.
So I mean this is a long way tosay I wanted to continue to
(38:57):
demonstrate that I felt thisshow was different, that this
show brought in different voicesold, young, men, women, you
know.
I mean it's become almost invogue to not care about
differences in people right now.
I mean because it was stressedso much and I can understand
that criticism.
(39:17):
For me I wanted to hear allvoices.
I really did, and I feel likewe did it as good a job as any
tv show has done in putting asmany people out there that that
could demonstrate why theirvoice had value and I I feel
they all did so I gotta ask youto prep question for this one
too.
Rocky (39:33):
So a lot of people have asked me to ask you.
So your guests that were onthere, your panelists, how did
it work with, as far as you guysknew, the topics?
Obviously you did.
Tony (39:42):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I told them.
We had a call, they knew thetopics in advance and sometimes
they would even know thequestion I was asking.
The direct question I would ask, and sometimes I wouldn't ask
that direct question once I gotinto it because something else
pulled at me in the flow of aconversation, right.
So the most important part tome was that we were having what
(40:09):
I felt and what has become acliche to some people an
authentic conversation.
I didn't want to just do.
You know, alex Ovechkin scoredthe NHL record goal 895 last
night.
Is he as important to hockey asMichael Jordan was to the NBA,
right, which is now whoa, whoa,whoa.
Why are we even?
You know, I wanted to live inthe moment of that one sport and
(40:32):
not be comparative.
I didn't want to have just agoat conversation every single
day.
I was comfortable enough, youknow.
You know some days you ask didthis team win it?
Did this team lose it?
And I understand that that is.
That is a question I like,because it kind of puts you
right on the screws immediately.
But I I really wanted to, wantedto, in some places, defer to an
(40:59):
actual feeling.
A person we have known wascovering games either that game
or the games like that in thepast.
Who was interviewed?
Maybe that athlete, or maybesomebody who was in a similar
situation, and what was thefeeling?
What would you be writing abouttoday as someone who's a Hall
of Fame broadcaster, right?
Those were the important thingsI wanted to get to on the
(41:20):
regular.
So for me, that was somethingthat we could script in advance
or I could allow theconversation to get to.
That's what I was trying touncover.
I always wanted to uncover.
I always wanted to make peopleforget they were on TV too as
well, because I do.
I'm a performer and I like tobe performative from time to
(41:44):
time, and I know there are manypeople in the industry who are
great performers and do it verywell.
But I thought the Around theHorn show specifically, while
some people could lean into somefamiliar characters Woody could
be your crazy uncle and that'sgreat, but other times I want
him to be his genuine self.
(42:05):
Give me because I know that guyin there Give me the real deal.
Give me the one-to-one of whoyou are off air on air real deal
.
Give me the one-to-one of whoyou are off air on air.
That's.
That's one of the things Ialways try to convince you know
sports reporters, which is notan easy thing to be because you
know, I understand, you knowthey're not television
performers in general.
Rocky (42:24):
But be yourself please your show was like family,
though when you watched yourshow it was like you were kind
of sitting at a bar justshooting a breeze on sports and
you could tell you're the pointguard that made that show go and
your job was to make everybodyaround you better.
Yeah, and watching your showwas like nothing was scripted
and I think those are even likepodcasts and like tonight I have
a whole thing and, no, I didn'tget to hardly anything.
(42:45):
I'm not going anywhere.
You know what I mean, but Ithink that's what made it
special.
Tony (42:50):
Here's the thing.
Yeah, that was intentional.
There's got to just like with Imean, there's work, that work
that goes into it.
So that was a little sleight ofhand that made it really seem
like it was as breezy, but itwas the DNA of the show.
I can be almost borderlinedelusional with how I talk about
(43:13):
how I put this show together,because it will sound like art.
I was trying to make art and itwas ESPN's Around the Horn.
But I thought about my favoritemoments in my life the dorm
room at Fordham, the Sundaydinners at grandma's house where
my two grandfathers Rock werebest friends growing up in the
Lower East Side of Manhattan.
(43:33):
They happened to have childrenwho married each other because
the families were close.
Right, that's my existence.
So my two grandfathers and thenmy father and my uncles would
get to drag out fights overpinochle or whatever car game or
the ball game they werelistening to or watching and
they would love each other atthe end.
And that was something that youknow.
(43:55):
You grow up as a kid.
Rocky (43:56):
Why are they yelling at each other.
Tony (43:57):
Wait a second.
Yelling's not bad.
Yelling's not bad.
They love each other.
Look at this.
That was seriously.
That was really what I wasgoing for.
It was.
It sounds silly, but it reallyis.
It sounds like Sundays back inmy household growing up.
Exactly that's just how it was.
Yeah, no, that's how it was so.
So there's a reason why and andthis is another thing, I'm part
(44:18):
it's a relatability, right, youcan relate to that.
You can relate to a crazycharacter in the show, because
woody reminds me of my, of anuncle, right, and professor
kevin blackstone reminds me Ilove him of that professor, that
, that nerdy professor you hadwho was going to give you a
dissertation and an answer.
Sometimes you wanted a hot takeand you got a dissertation.
(44:41):
Sometimes you wanted adissertation, you got a hot take
from somebody else.
But I love that.
And then I love that I had mysmart aleck sports friend, pablo
Torre, and then I had somebodywho I really admire in the
industry, sarah Spain, who Ithink is a force of nature, you
know, and she she was like, uh,some of my cousins and my some
parts of my sister's personality, but not really.
(45:01):
She was much bigger than that.
Rocky (45:03):
I saw a lot of myself in her, but I'm just saying I was
trying to go for not charactersbut relatable people in our
lives, cause those are the typesof shows I like to watch, even
outside of sports, you know alot of people and you explained
that the scoring system and Igotta be honest with it, I
didn't know how you did thescoring system, but listening to
(45:23):
you talk today but even evenprior, it was all about how life
changes daily and day to day.
You didn't know how you weregoing to score it.
But talk to us a little bitabout that.
Tony (45:33):
I believe that you know I was trying again this is reality
referring to Horn as art, but Iwas trying to make gentle
points along the way because Iknew we had the sports covered.
I knew we had a game show inthe show and that was fun.
But the scoring system, to me,had value in being inexplicable
(45:56):
Because in a lot of ways for me,as I navigated life and through
this life of being a publicfigure on a dream job, it was
inexplicable.
Life throws stuff at you.
This is what I was told atFordham's graduation by Vince
Scully.
This is how much it stayed withme, rob.
Life gives you the test longbefore it gives you the lesson.
(46:18):
What does that mean?
That means life's going tothrow stuff at you before you
actually learn how to do it.
That's just the way it is.
So the fact that the greatestsports play-by-play guy of all
time, sportscaster at the schoolthat I went to, told me this
(46:39):
and I allowed it to be thelesson that navigated the
scoring system on the show it'svery silly but it's true.
I wanted to score the showdifferently every day, because
life scores us all differentlyevery day and being able to
adapt and roll with it is reallya secret to life.
I don't have anything figuredout, but I do know through you,
know through my own personalexperiences and then, of course,
everybody in my life that knowsme knows you know I'm going to
(47:02):
be able to adapt and roll withwhatever situation comes at me
as best as I could in thatmoment and then even better the
next day with the experiences Ilearned.
And we tried to do that in alittle way every day with sports
debate.
Rocky (47:16):
So, tony, you were strong about your faith, right.
That was well documented withyou.
And then you became a dad andyou got married and you were
very open on social media aboutanxiety, struggles, and I'm
going to tell you I'm the sameway, because it's been a
challenge with me as well overthe years but you were very
vocal about it, right.
You don't shy away from that.
(47:37):
How important was that for youto be open about that.
Tony (47:40):
Well, you know, for me, I am a communicator, right as I
turn on a light here, and Ireally apologize for not doing
this before.
Okay, let me see how this isAll right, here we go.
Sorry, the kids took control ofwhat is our studio here, our
studio.
And so for me, I learned earlyon I'm best at this, talking
(48:05):
through things, and that's noteven just talking through things
in my head, talking throughthings out loud.
But I also learned when you dothat, I mean that there's some
vulnerability.
You have to be prepared to showsome sides of you, that
sometimes there's a voice insideyou Don't tell people about
this, you don't want peopleknowing about this, but in me I
(48:26):
knew that there would be benefitfor me getting it out, and then
I I saw if I'm going through it, that could help somebody else
out.
My people in my life can dothings the exact opposite way.
I'm married to the, the greatestperson in my life and and I
know she didn't process losinguh amadeo in childbirth a
(48:48):
stillbirth that we had that Italked about on the TV show, and
it's been very much a part ofmy life that has both brought
sadness but has broughtsomething that has become very
full and a positive feeling inmy greater life, right, and
(49:11):
being able to communicate thatto people on a sports TV show,
but have it returned to mebecause it's a pay it forward
thing.
Those people then begin toprocess things and then they
pass it forward in their lives.
I recognize that early on thatwhen you're in a public position
, there could be benefits tothat for other people.
(49:31):
So my point is I was goingthrough generalized anxiety
disorder probably all of myadult life, but it became very
pronounced when I had childrenand this was not something
that's commonly talked about bymen, right.
While I'm hesitant to call itpostpartum anxiety, it was at
(49:56):
one point in my greater sortingout of this described as that.
But I would just say I neededto impart to men and I know how
many men watch our show, apercentage of men that you have
to get your feelings in order.
(50:16):
Whether you communicate them outloud or not, to a therapist or
not.
I mean, that's not my.
That was my decision to do andthat may not be anyone's
decision to do and that may notbe anyone's decision to do.
But giving voice to feelings inany way, even an internal voice
to your feelings, demonstratesthat you are now at least
thinking about it and not justletting it hiding in the shadows
(50:48):
and then coming out.
In ways Maybe it comes out.
In some ways.
People have a temper.
Some ways people have visceralreactions where anxiety gets
them to be breathing heavy, thepanic attacks that some people
maybe have experienced or atleast see in movies.
Right For me, I was having itall.
I was having what I felt waspostpartum.
(51:15):
I was having panic attacks andthen I had a very, very pointed
moment where we were atdelivering Enzo and losing
Amadeo and I knew that wassomething when I wrote the
eulogy for the mass for Amadeothat I wanted to share publicly
because I thought people couldbenefit from a public discussion
about that.
So I did it, first on socialmedia, but then I was invited to
do it on the TV show and I'mvery happy I did it still
remains to me a proud momentthat made my loss, our loss,
(51:41):
like I said, be a very full,full feeling.
And now I don't, you know I myfear was I was going to think
whenever I thought of Enzo'sbirthday, I would think of
Amadeo's um, you know, holdingAmadeo and burying Amadeo.
And the fact is, I think, whenI think of of Amadeo, or when I
see twins, or when I think ofanything, I think of the lives
(52:03):
that have come back to me totell me they were touched by it,
know, and how they'veexperienced similar things, or
how it pursued, it made thempursue getting getting their
feelings under control in alittle way, whether it's through
talk therapy or not, you knowso take us back to the last, the
last show, and when I watchedthat last show you're on, then I
(52:24):
thought of kobe bryan speak,when you said mom out, and you
put the mic down and you, youput the mute button down.
Rocky (52:29):
Did the last show go the way you thought it would go?
Did you get everything?
Tony (52:32):
Yeah, I mean I mean, I really I was trying to do a
couple of things.
Um, I was trying to first, inthe first three minutes, show a
side of me.
Everyone knows I love the movieGood fellows, I I like the art
of Goodfellas just as much as Ilike the Italianist, but I do
love the Italianist first andforemost, but I love the art of
it and the cinematography.
So I did a shot that harkensback to that.
(52:55):
But I did it for a reason toshow everybody who works on a
show that doesn't have theirface in front of the camera,
right.
So that was one thing.
I wanted to make sure I showedyou our producers and our camera
people and all these sorts ofthings.
So I was able to do that in twoand a half minutes in a way
that I like and my children gotto get you know, just to get
people that are important in mylife.
I needed to make sure ourgreatest of all time, you know,
(53:19):
whatever the eight paneliststhat were able to get on that
show, but I did want to onceagain affirm to the viewer what
they just experienced.
It was a show that has ascoring system that maybe
flummoxed you on the scoring,but this is what the scoring was
.
It was like life, please rollwith life.
And I wanted to underline thatsports was about connection and
(53:42):
the way we connect with sports,but the way we would connect
with others.
I thought of two things.
Rocky, are you a wrestling fanat all?
You know, I grew up withwrestling a little bit, but I'm
not a fan now by any stretch.
But the actual placement of themute button on the floor it may
have been mom out, but for me Iwas thinking of wrestlers.
I always liked the romance ofwrestlers putting their
(54:03):
wrestling boots in the ring andwalking out.
That's what actually that was.
And secondly, there was amoment I even reached my hand
towards the camera and it was adevice that I saw an old
wrestler doing a very famouspromo, dusty Rhodes, you know.
And that wasn't even thewrestler I grew up with.
You know, he was more in thesouth and doing these things,
but I love the way sometimeswrestlers did promos.
(54:25):
These are the things I wouldwatch on youtube.
You know you can watch machoman savage do promos for an hour
, right so dusty roads.
You know he gave his hard timespeech and he used his hand
gather for me.
He said at one point, and thatwas one of the things I was
doing we're trying to physicallyshow a, a connection between
the host of this show and andand the audience.
(54:45):
Thank you, I mean, it's justabout gratitude again.
So I absolutely got everythingout.
I didn't need to do everything.
It's a 23-minute show.
You know we had 4,953 episodes.
I think I was comfortable, happyand thrilled, putting my full
self into the show all those 23years.
I didn't take a second or thirdjob really, or take on the
(55:09):
podcast.
I want to do SportsCenter.
You know I want to giveeverything I could to this show
and ride it to the end.
I see value in that.
You know, basically a fullday's work, right, so give it
all.
So I gave it my all and then,you know, I was able, I felt
triumphant, signing off, which Idon't think is a word most
(55:30):
people would utilize when a showgets canceled and ended.
But it's how I felt.
I mean, that's the only way tobe a reality check.
You know, you made it 23 yearsand 5,000 episodes.
You're not canceled, you'rejust ending.
You know, and that's how I feel.
Rocky (55:45):
Well, a couple interviews you did.
I heard you throw out thereyour show, the.
The show had more.
Tony (55:52):
I mean, we don't have hiatus while we were off, maybe
during college bowl week,because he has been showed all
the bowls in our place and wewere all for the little league
world series, the silly thingsthat we were all for.
But uh, yeah, we didn't havehiatus, so we were able to put
up some real numbers and I valuethat too.
I mean, like, again, I'm joereali's son, you know, I don't
know how many days of work mydad missed in whatever his 50
(56:14):
years or 48 years.
You know it can't be more thanthree or four, you know, with
the beat emergency gallstones orsomething like that, you know.
So I mean, I was similar to thatfor a long time until until we
really, you know, until Idecided to to catch my breath in
some ways.
So, yeah, that part of it, Iadmired that too, but in the end
(56:34):
it was the connection with theaudience.
I mean, that's why I came backevery day.
I loved putting you know newfaces on TV and I loved showing
different parts of mypersonality in small ways on the
show and talking about newtopics.
But I, but I, I love theaudience, you know, and and
they're not going anywhere theviewers, you know.
I mean I'll introduce myself toa new group of viewers.
Rocky (56:57):
Uh, whatever's next, yeah well, that leads to my last
thing for you here was I knowwe're not going to get what's
next, but tv sports.
I know probably there's games.
I know there's a lot of.
Tony (57:07):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I love sports.
I'm staying in sports.
For sure, the biggest sportingevents is where my attention
will be now, maybe not on thedaily, doing sports discussion
on the daily.
I don't know if I've closedthat chapter, but I'm in a
position now.
You know where I'm opening up adoor for the first time, so I
(57:29):
really want to see that.
But you know me a little bitRock.
I mean I love my little gamesand game shows.
I love.
I still think there's a placefor sports fans average fans to
get their voices out there.
So any way I can createsomething that would be that for
the average I'm in game for andyou know I'm envious of anybody
(57:54):
who's doing any type of showswith family-related fare.
You know I want to learn how Ican put a show together that can
talk to dads, specificallysports dads, even because I love
the.
I want people to have betterrelationships with people in
(58:16):
their life kids, parents andkids, kids and parents, vice
versa.
You want to have a betterrelationship with your kids.
I believe sports is a great wayto do that.
I believe working out with yourkids is a great way to do that.
I believe working out with yourkids is a great way to do that.
I believe that 30 minutes youtake driving your kids to the
game and your 30 minutes goingback from the game is a really,
really I'm going to use the wordsweet time, because you could
(58:38):
just be support for them, youcould just be there, they could
open up to you and maybe they'renot ready to open up to you
every time.
And building that relationship,though, so they can open up to
you every time, and and buildingthat relationship, though, so
they can open up to you in thosemoments through sports, is a
worthy endeavor, and that'ssomething I want to try to.
That's a nut I want to try tocrack going forward well, I can
relate to that.
Rocky (58:58):
I was my dad, who was a long time high school football
coach in this area, probablyover 35 years.
I was, uh, I was his assistantcoach for a little while when I
moved back here a long time agoand then he retired and then he
was my assistant coach for myfirst varsity job.
And then my son now, who isactually a seventh grader going
into eighth grade, played for meat the youth level.
(59:20):
And then my daughter, who'sonly nine years old I coached
her third and fourth gradebasketball team.
So sports is in my family,coaching is in my family.
Tony (59:29):
Coaching is in my family.
It's a nice time Again.
It is invaluable.
The lessons you learn for lifeyou know this as an athlete, you
know this.
The lessons you learn in sportshave turned you know into your
career, right, I mean the way.
Failures are not failures,they're learning experiences,
discipline that you've learnedand all these things.
But I do believe they're justan open forum where parents can
(59:55):
talk with other parents abouthow to be with their children in
and out of.
Sports is a place I want to bein.
So I'll give you that I'm goingto crack that nut.
No matter how, no matter.
Even if I'm doing the biggestsporting events in the world as
a prime job, my heart's going tobe somewhere else in the very
(01:00:16):
near future doing that type ofsports, parenting.
Rocky (01:00:21):
Well, listen, man, I don't want to keep you much
longer, so I just want to saythis was a true honor.
I know I've been chasing youand bugging you, but you've been
good to me so I can't thank youenough.
I can't wait to see what you donext.
I'll be following you.
I was looking.
You know I had a house fire.
Tony (01:00:36):
Rocky, I was looking for some of my old play-by-play
charts to see if I can bring up.
You know, you take a big manilafolder and you draw you know
the names and what number wereyou.
I was trying to remember that23, 23, and can you name your
whole secondary?
Oh, chris roads I remember bigstrong safety number 42, uh, I
(01:01:01):
believe maybe 47.
I remember ray redden, yeah,ray redden yeah he had very
sticky corners, he turned theball over a lot Lance.
Rocky (01:01:11):
Peck.
Tony (01:01:14):
John Piella was my year.
Rocky (01:01:18):
Yes, he was the strong safety.
Small but tough, I think healso okay, yeah, and I'm trying.
Tony (01:01:26):
Yeah, that's a good four right there.
That's a solid.
I'll go with those four.
Yeah, that's a good four rightthere.
I'll go with those four guys.
That's a solid four right there.
Rocky (01:01:33):
It was a good group man.
A lot of us still keep in touch.
I don't know if you rememberBrad Fradenberg that name but
there's a lot of us Fordham guysthat still keep in touch.
Tony (01:01:41):
And that team to go from zero wins to eight wins, to nine
wins and qualifying nearly forthe end.
I mean, that's all you need toknow.
That you demonstrated whatsports can do.
You build on something, and I'dlike to say I had it, I knew it
, even at 0-11, I knew what theywere building was right.
Yeah, yeah, that was a goodprogram.
Rocky (01:02:03):
It was special.
But yeah, man, listen, Iappreciate you.
Keep in touch, please, and uh,very well, I may be having you
as my uh next guest on the onthe sports parenting uh podcast.
Tony (01:02:17):
Yeah, I'd love to talk about uh, coaching, coaching you
sports, because you know I'mgonna go back to this.
So much of what you hear isabout the parents yelling at
referees or the coach and thereferee coming blows or
something like that.
It can be more than that.
It doesn't that we can.
We can have a more fullexperience and relationship and
(01:02:38):
discussion about what it is to,to make sure that isn't the only
thing that happens in it.
That that's my goal.
Rocky (01:02:45):
All right, rocky well, keep in touch, man, I appreciate
talking to you.
Tony (01:02:49):
Thanks for playing.
Remember when I love it.
Rocky (01:02:52):
No problem, thanks, tony, let me just fix my screen here.
So how cool was that to haveTony Raleigh on with me to go
down memory lane down at Fordham, our time there and just the
stories he's had and just wherehe's gotten to today.
(01:03:15):
And I can't wait to see what'snext for him.
But I've been chasing him for awhile and he's always responded
to me and he's always beengreat to me and there's a long
list of Fordham broadcastersthat are on TV and I thought he
explained it well.
Between you know, syracuse isfantastic and I'm not knocking
anybody from Syracuse becausethere's a lot of great ones, but
(01:03:35):
there's also a lot of goodFordham ones too.
So I was happy to Tony talkabout that as his personal
struggles with, with anxiety.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthe scoring on the round the
horn is time on PTIti pardon theinterruption with tony
kornheiser and and michaelwilbon.
And then you know he got hisshot in 2000.
He was a young kid who grew upright in front of us.
(01:03:55):
So if you follow pti and thenyou follow around the horn,
here's this 20 something yearold kid, wallet fordham covered
the yankees, covered the mets,covered all the big platforms,
and then you saw him grow up infront of our eyes and he's first
class, like many of the Fordhamguys that came before us as
well.
So I want to thank Tony fortuning in here tonight with me.
(01:04:15):
Much appreciated that.
Hopefully you enjoyed ittonight.
The playback will be up onFacebook, youtube, twitter,
linkedin.
You can hear all the playbacks,too, wherever you listen to
your podcast.
So I really appreciateeverybody tuning in tonight.
So, as I always say here, theRock
Good evening everybody.
Welcome to another live editionhere on the Rockpile.
Tonight I'm excited to talk toa longtime host on ESPN, Tony
Reali.
He's going to join me in just aminute and Tony and I were just
talking a little bit behind thescenes and he covered me while
I was at Fordham.
So a lot of people were askingme questions last week and
tonight and I got to get into itwith Tony.
(00:22):
They're asking well, you got toget into ESPN last week into
tonight and I got to get into itwith Tony.
They're asking well, you got toget into ESPN.
I'm like forget ESPN.
I want to get into the Fordhamyears with Tony and let him go
down memory lane.
So I'm really excited to havehim on here tonight.
So if you're watching onYouTube, make sure to hit
subscribe.
Twitter, linkedin, wherever youfollow us, I continue to the
posties, so I'm really excitedto bring him on, so I'm not
(00:42):
going to keep him waiting.
He's got better things to dothan talk to me tonight, so
let's get him on there's noplace in the world I'd rather be
than right here, right now Iappreciate that man.
How are you?
Tony (00:53):
I'm doing.
Great man.
I love remember when I knowthere's a soprano's joke.
It's the lowest form ofwhatever.
I miss nostalgia.
Nobody does nostalgia like theyused to, and what we just did
right now, remembering the 2000fordham rams, oh and 11.
Ah, yeah, that, that was.
(01:14):
That was a year.
I remember well dave clausen,who has turned into.
We knew it then.
We knew it then.
One of the great minds,offensive minds, especially in
college football, and you gotand you got to learn at the
chalkboard from him.
Rocky (01:27):
You know what, tony, when I got recruited.
This is really weird, because Inever played for the guy that
recruited me.
I don't know if you rememberNick Cattaro.
Tony (01:36):
I remember Nick Cattaro yeah, my first year.
Rocky (01:39):
He was a coach too, yeah, he leaves, he goes to, I think,
iowa State, and then KenO'Keefe comes in from.
Allegheny.
Tony (01:48):
Yeah, in Allegheny he leaves.
Rocky (01:50):
Dave Klaassen comes in and I'll tell you what.
And I tell Dave Klaassen thisall the time because when I went
down to visit my wife's familydown in Raleigh this was a few
years ago and Dave Cohen, whowas the defensive coordinator
when I was at Fordham, was oneof his assistants I went to
visit him down at Wake forspring practice.
Tony (02:08):
Yeah.
Rocky (02:09):
And we were talking, I said you know what People hated
Coach Claussen when he firststarted?
Because he was tough.
Tony (02:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Rocky (02:15):
He brought in a lot of his own guys.
But we knew right then, andthere he was, a young guy.
Tony (02:19):
I knew it then, and there too, at 0-11,.
I knew it then and there too,at 0-11,.
I knew the type of character hewas putting out there.
I do remember one thing that hereminded me of just this past
year not directly, through afriend of mine who was calling a
Wake Forest game.
Was that it's possible?
I was late for my first meetingwith him, I do think.
Bob Hill the basketball coach,former NBA coach, I kept me long
(02:42):
in a meeting with him, and hereI was late for my first meeting
with Dave Klausten, which heremembered to this day.
I remember him talking to meabout how he loved the slot
receiver position.
Jerry McDermott was playing thatfor him of course, and would go
on to have a record-breakingseason in the years ahead and
how he really maximized that.
(03:04):
But these are the things youremember, Rock.
He maximized that for aposition.
One advantage he wanted to playat was the slot position.
I remember that to this day.
It didn't affect how I hostedaround the horn, but I'll bet
Spiro Didis, another colleagueof ours, friend of ours, does it
when he's calling CBS NFL gamesright now.
(03:25):
Rocky, I believe that.
Rocky (03:28):
Tony, I had a lot of people that were like, oh, you
got to get into Rialia and ESPN,which we will, and I've watched
a lot of the interviews withyou, the last couple, you've
been on just about every podcastradio show.
Tony (03:38):
As you know, I didn't do interviews for about four years
three years I operated in forbetter or worse you know a world
where I wanted to let the workspeak for itself and I knew how
taxing that's not a bad thing,but I had to put it all in 100%
into the work every day.
So I did a lot of interviews inthe last month, as you're
(04:01):
referring to.
Rocky (04:03):
And a lot of people said you're going to get into all the
SPN and I will.
But I said you know what theshows that I've done?
And I interviewed Rob Manfordnot long ago, who's from Rome,
new York, which is where I'mfrom, and the thing I like about
what I do is I want to hear thestories.
You've had the ups, the downsand of course, you've got
interviewed by a lot of big timepeople and we'll get into all
that stuff.
But your story I've beenfollowing since we got out of
(04:25):
college.
Yeah, it's been fascinating andI want you to just start.
Tony (04:29):
It has been a fun story to put together, but even goes
back to their college days, sorocky.
You and I are together, uh, forfor two years at fordham I'm
calling the games for fordhamfootball and fordham basketball,
which was a dream of mine.
It's still know, it's not mycurrent dream, but play-by-play
Yep, calling a football game,calling a basketball game, is
(04:50):
the closest thing I think youcan really get to playing in the
game.
It really is.
I mean, especially inbasketball.
You're on the floor of the game, you know, and you're feeling
the beat of the ball and you'resweating through it.
Calling a football footballgame, you're up in the box and
and and you're hyper focused,like a coach is.
I mean, you're literally in thebox next to the coaches.
I loved hearing the defensivecoaches pounding, pounding the
(05:14):
desk, you know, when we weregetting a turnover forced right
there.
Um, you know that is a greatfeeling.
So I I went to ford solely withthe purpose to call games right,
because that's what Michael Kaydid of the New York Yankees,
that's what Bob Papa did of theNew York Giants, that's what
Chris Carino and Mike Breen ofNBA teams had done.
(05:34):
So that was the dream.
But I was also now having anopportunity to work at a
50,000-watt radio station in NewYork.
But even then, rocky, in thatmoment I'm doing newscasts on
90.7 FM as the sports guy and Iwas asked to be.
I was pulled off of the radiobecause of my delivery, the way
(05:55):
I talk.
Maybe my Jersey accent at thetime was just not good for the
Bronx.
It wasn't good enough at thatlevel.
So which I introduced this tosay as much as I had a dream.
I have a dream job, of course,but I had a dream.
I got the call saying we needyou to fill in one day and it
all played out and I got to dothe dream show with it, one of
(06:18):
those crazy fluky lucky hookups.
Even through it all, there arestill always moments that you
have to work on your craft.
You have to take that call thatsays you're going to need to
stop down and work on your gamea little bit.
Espn did the same with me.
We'll get to it in a second.
Well, I'll do it right now.
(06:39):
They brought in a voice coachas well.
They brought in a voice coachmy first year of Around the Horn
, so this is my second time.
Now I'm being really forced toaddress I would say it was my,
my charm but also how I need toget my energy under control a
little bit, because I'm a bigenergy guy and rocky mate.
(06:59):
You, you, you operate on aslowly different, different pace
, right, and maybe you know youhave to get up for certain
moments when you're doing abroadcast.
I had to learn to get down alittle bit because my personal
energy needed to come down alittle bit so I didn't get
carried away in my voice,because I had a call once.
You would have been on thefield in this game Do you
(07:20):
remember Holy Cross?
And there was a block kick thatgot returned and a fumble on
the return and went back, sothey were missed.
Have been 150 yards of ball on aplay here and I ended with Holy
Cross.
You can't say, I don't rememberexactly, uh, what happened on
the play, but my voice must havebeen, you know, at three
(07:43):
octaves above what you wouldwant on the call in that moment.
Um, so these are the types ofthings that I'm just saying.
You can get to the highestlevels.
Rocky (07:52):
You always got to work on your craft so everybody jokes
with me because I'm about 45minutes from syracuse university
and we always get into thesegreat arguments and obviously so
many great journalists andbroadcasters from syracuse.
Tony (08:04):
But I get the guys that always say I like our chance.
There's the Fordham guy.
Rocky (08:08):
Give me the Fordham guys in a fight, man.
There's a lot of big time andwe'll get into a lot of the
Fordham guys.
But take me back to Fordham too, because one of the things I've
always said people have askedme um, you know, play-by-play
guy versus somebody that couldhost a show.
I've always liked hosting stuff.
Play-by-play is really tough.
There's a lot of goodplay-by-play guys.
(08:28):
When did you know you wanted toget out of that part of it and
do the show part?
Tony (08:31):
Well, I think it was my personality got myself out of
that.
You know, I was just a littletoo big in a room and even in a
call of a game, you know Ienjoyed what became the back and
forth you may have seen betweenmyself and Kornheiser and
Wilbon, or myself and Woody Pageand Bob Ryan, and I would try
(08:53):
to, even though I couldn'tprobably articulate it at the
time, work that into a broadcast.
So at Fordham it is a cradle ofplay-by-play guys, first and
foremost right, and Syracuse hasthat.
And then Syracuse has alsohosts that go through the Bob
Costas, mike Tirico line.
(09:14):
I would say While they doplay-by-play very, very well,
tirico outstanding inplay-by-play, I think they're
really at their best in hosting.
I've had a chance to even worknext to Tariq once.
It took my breath away when Isaw him do a read, you know,
because there's that muchcontrol over your voice and
getting into a script, right.
But for me, you know I workedwith Marty Glickman is the name
(09:40):
of a famed Hall of Fameplay-by-play announcer.
Before our time called theKnicks and the Giants, a little
bit in our time called the NewYork Jets, and this was another
voice of my youth, but reallyour parents' youth and he was
coming to Fordham University'scampus once a week rolling up
(10:02):
those sleeves and that tie andthat shirt collar was starched,
perfect.
He was a pro's pro as anannouncer and he even told me
Anthony, anthony, with thatvoice, you're never going to get
national and Anthony, anthony,with that delivery, you're
talking a little bit, too muchconversation, not enough time
(10:22):
and score.
He was a big proponent becausehe did a lot of radio, not not
so much tv but more radio, andthat you got to paint in the
viewer's mind, or the listener'smind, I should say, getting the
radio brain.
Um, the time and the score, youknow, um I was doing, I was
doing too much conversational,so it became a natural
progression.
But it chose me out.
(10:43):
Honestly it really did, becauseof of those lucky phone calls
and those lucky conversationsyou find yourself in the night
before a telecast.
They need somebody to fill inand I happened to be that guy
one day.
Rocky (10:56):
Now, Tony, was there another school other than
Fordham that was in play for you, or was it always Fordham?
Tony (11:00):
It was always Fordham.
I may have applied to otherschools and just for the sake of
doing that, fordham was my only.
I mean, I was on the radiowithin a week, or at least in
the radio room, within a week,on air within a month.
It was a singular focus for me,rocky.
Since I was five years old, Iwanted to be a broadcaster.
(11:23):
I've said this and I'll saythis again.
I say it.
You know, I had a fakemicrophone and I would be in
front of the TV, and even nowI'm watching games with my
middle Enzo, my middle child,and you know he says he wants to
be a sportscaster.
I think because he wants to,you know, be like his old man,
but I think he really wants tobe a YouTuber, which is exactly
(11:44):
what I would be doing if I wereof this generation and I think
it's one of the most amazingthings.
Right, I had a.
Really, you know, I did have arecorder at some point in my
high school years and I did gothrough some of these.
Really, you know, I would tryto do broadcasts when I was in
high school in a verbal speech,you know, effective speaking way
(12:05):
in a class for speaking.
But the reality was I wasn'treally recording and showing it,
disseminating in any way.
Now you can have your ownYouTube channel.
You know I would be.
I mean, I would be outsidewatching recreational soccer and
calling those games If I was 12or 14 right now.
No doubt, no doubt.
Rocky (12:24):
I used to call the old nintendo.
This is funny because I had.
I don't know if you remembermark carney was the quarterback,
my one of my roommates yeah andhe's now filling in as the head
coach at kent state oh, Ididn't know he is yep.
So I had him on not too longago and we're talking.
He goes.
You know, rock.
I remember when we used to playum all the football, all the
college and all that, maddensand all that.
Tony (12:45):
Yeah, I think you're right with this.
I did this too, you're right.
Rocky (12:47):
He goes.
You used to broadcast like youwere calling a Madden game he
goes.
I always knew you'd want to bebehind the mic.
It's just been a passion.
Tony (12:56):
This is a conversation of people of our nature.
I can mention another name fromFordham because I just saw him
recently Andrew Bogish.
Rocky (13:03):
Yeah.
Tony (13:07):
I name from Fordham because I just saw him recently,
andrew Bogish.
I know I'm best friends withthe guy across the street from
him growing up in Queens andhe's like I knew Bogish, and he
used to do the announcing of ourwiffle ball games.
I'm like I was doing the samething.
It's a very interestingcharacter trait to also want to
describe what you're doing.
And you know I mean you could,I know broadcasters, the heights
of the game, who, who, for fun,just do the play by play of
(13:30):
their family waking up andgetting breakfast in the kitchen
, just just to keep that patternof speech going, because it
really is a act, reaction typejob.
Hosting is different Hosting, Imean, I know, rock, you have
some questions, maybe you havein mind, maybe you haven't
written down on a piece of paper, but I know you have to
(13:51):
actively be listening to meright now.
That's a skill, a muscle.
You have to kind of really workand it's a different thing, the
act of listening.
I knew what it took me when Iwas 25, when I filled in
overnight on Around the Horn andI knew you know, other than
nerves, that Iificate or justhave an opinion on TV and people
(14:13):
were going to ride with that.
I knew I really wanted to get toa place where I could actively
(14:37):
listen to the panelists and thenmake them prove why their
opinion is the right opinion ontoday's game show, because
Around the Horn was had amechanism of game show and that
took that, took years to reallyfeel, and who knows if I would
have been given that time orwhat, just the way it worked out
.
I mean, some TV shows don'tmake it six months, so so I, if
(15:00):
I had to go back to my, to myself, I would have done it the
same way and I would have saidthe advice is keep on plugging
away, but be an active listener.
When you're a host which is notkind of your first intuition
when you want to get into thebusiness, you just want to talk,
you have big, big opinions, youhave energy to you or you want
(15:23):
to describe what you're seeing,but actively listening,
listening, is the key to tohosting.
Rocky (15:28):
It's an odd thing to say so how'd you get started with
espn?
When you left fordham, I mean,you started off at espn.
You were a kid and here youwere, 20 something years later.
You know a grown, a grown adultchildren.
How'd you get landed at ESPN?
Tony (15:44):
The day after the graduation at Fordham, I was
working at Channel 11, a localNew York institution, wpix.
I was writing the sportscastsor editing tape and helping
write, along with Sal Marciano,the longtime New York anchor,
and also Sean Kimmerling, who issince the late Sean Kimmerling,
(16:08):
but I was writing their scriptsand I loved that job.
But I was only able to getabout 20 hours a week.
So I'm like this is the timeyou make that decision, riali.
You go to Iowa and you callminor league baseball.
To Iowa and you call minorleague baseball.
And there was just somethingyou know in the back of my head
that said you know, stay in NewYork and try to work in TV,
(16:33):
whether you're on air.
First prove that you can doanything on a show and then
maybe you can go about it thatway.
I started submitting a writingsample for a trivia game show
that happened to be on ESPN.
This was a spinoff of the gameshow who Wants to Be a
Millionaire.
It was a show calledMillionaire.
Drill so you rememberMillionaire being the biggest
(16:53):
show in the world and there wasenergy around.
Let's see if we can expand this.
And who loves trivia more thansports fans?
Rocky (17:01):
Was Kenny Mayne the host.
He absolutely was.
Tony (17:06):
Yes, I remember, was he the host?
He absolutely was.
Yes, I remember this show hadmany of the great notes and
touches of who wants to be amillionaire, lights and music,
but it also had a little bit ofa timed mechanic.
It was called the two-minutedrill and trivia.
While it's very effective whenit's timed, we also were
utilizing professional athletesto read the questions.
So I was writing thesequestions.
(17:27):
But you write a question andit's a challenging question, but
it's also challenging then fora non-professional to read it in
the time that they needed toread it in for the person who
was competing to have the bestchance of winning.
So the show went three seasonsand then they said thanks,
(17:48):
that's a good three-year run.
And at that moment, just in theoffice, in her office bulletin
board or maybe email, I heard ofa show that was starting in
Washington DC called.
Well, at that moment I'm noteven sure if it was called
Pardon the Interruption, but itwas definitely going to be based
in DC around Tony Kornheiserand Mike Wilbon, and you've done
(18:10):
the writing now for Anchorsbefore and for Trivia Questions.
Would you want to do theresearch and be part of the
debate-making show Pardon theInterruption?
I interviewed for that job.
That's how I came to work forESPN show.
Part of the interruption.
I interviewed for that job.
That's how I came to work forespn.
I came to work for the pti show, which is still the number one
show of its kind on the network.
(18:30):
Proud will always be part ofthat family.
It's.
It's.
It's a debate show that Ilearned at the feet of two
expert sports columnists right,the premier sports columnist in
the country.
But I learned something aboutTV and what we call content now
Rock, and you know this too.
(18:51):
You're doing a show solo and youhave a guest and some of your
guests you know and you have adynamic.
We know each other.
Those guys weren't just friends, they weren't just
mentor-mentee, they weren't evenjust brothers from another
mother.
They were a married couple.
Tv works on dynamics.
You show me those two guys in anewsroom for five seconds.
(19:12):
You walk into that newsroom.
You would have walked outsaying that's a TV show.
Right there, those guys are ateach other's throat, but they're
also, they have an ability tolove each other and I love that,
love, that dynamic.
You know where you can be atblows with somebody and then
also be embraced in a hug by theend of it.
(19:33):
That's that to me.
So I was writing and researchingthat show at 23 years old and a
week before that show is aboutto launch.
I'm going at it with those guysin the newsroom over silly
debates that we're havingWhatever who's better?
You know, larry Bird or MagicJohnson, right, they were happy
to have that debate for thehundredth time.
(19:54):
And then I chimed in the airand I made my case Like this is
interesting, this guy's goingfor it.
But then, secondly, you know, wehad to work on the camera
people a little bit.
The camera shots.
Tony and Mike wanted to sit inthe chair just for a few seconds
.
Then I sat in their chair and Ishowed something that I showed
at FUV, which was some chops.
(20:15):
I had done call-in shows, I haddone my games, I was
comfortable with a microphone infront of me and they made me
the sidekick.
This is a week before we wentto Air Rocky.
This is right when you knowthis show's about to take off.
I wasn't expecting to be thesidekick, but if you'd asked me,
it would have been a dream.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Rocky (20:37):
And that's how much work went into behind the scenes to
put that show on.
Tony (20:40):
I mean that day, that show both of the shows I worked on
were nine to five days, 40-hourweeks, in an office.
But you have to watch sportsfor a living.
You have to go out cover gamesfor Cornheiser and Wilbon or
myself.
I would go out to games, youknow, on occasion, but not as
much as those other guys would.
So the actual show doesresemble a work day, you know,
(21:03):
but it resets every day.
When I threw that paper ball atthe camera or when we said you
know, we'll try to do bettertomorrow on PTI.
Now we do it on a Googledocument, right?
You have a living, breathingdocument that you're just adding
sports stories, clips that yousee over the night.
(21:25):
So typically I would bewatching my games at night for
three hours and putting stuffinto our Google Doc, as would
another producer or two or theresearcher, so the show.
And then I would be watching myeight hours of football on
Sundays and college football aswell.
So I don't know there was nohour number my eight hours of
football on Sundays and andcollege football as well, you
know.
So I don't know if there therewas no hour number.
(21:47):
I don't know what the 23 and ahalf hour break I know it wasn't
really a break Cause you had towatch your sports.
You can't I mean, I'm not evertired of watching sports.
I'm not jaded to this day we'regoing to get to having to say
goodbye to a show like Aroundthe Horn.
That was my living breathingheart, rocky, and I think the
(22:09):
show could be going on right nowand I think you know it's taken
me a couple weeks ofdecompressing.
There's a reason why You're thesecond interview I've done
since I've gotten off the show.
The other was Dan Levitard,another friend of mine.
You know I'm not ready to justeven unpack all of it, but I am.
I mean, let's be honest, I'mexcited for my future.
(22:30):
I know I'm going to have aplace in this industry that I'm
going to enjoy and I've got to aspace where I'm not like I
don't want to just get a chair,I want to build the next chair.
That's where I am right now.
But I know I just watched theNBA finals, you know, wrap up in
a game, seven, and there was somuch in that game to unpack and
(22:51):
I didn't get to do a round thehorn the next day and that's
just like that's something I'vedone for 20, 23 years and I had
to say goodbye in the middle ofthe NBA playoffs and I'm just
like, oh, you know, I still gotthese things I wanted to talk
about, you know, and I'm justlike oh, you know, I still got
these things I wanted to talkabout, you know, yeah, yeah.
Rocky (23:10):
So did you ever get that wow moment?
I mean, you get out of Fordham,you know you get PTI, you're
behind the scenes, stat boy, andyou know you're in front of two
absolute legends in the sportsworld.
Did you ever sit back and say,wow, this is real, yeah.
Tony (23:21):
I mean, I believed it, you know, achieve it.
You know, believe it andachieve it.
I believed by the time I tookthat meeting and then they said
we're going to make you thesidekick.
I mean I watched ESPN every dayof my life.
That I can remember, you know,growing up let's take it to age
(23:43):
11, when we got cable or so,right, age 12.
So at 12, and then I was 23.
So it's only been 11 years, butI had done, you know, a
master's course in sports fandomalready.
You know I had watched ESPNSportsCenter probably three
times, the same telecast,probably three times a day.
(24:03):
I was at Fordham, to the pointwhere you can memorize it.
I had I've certainly been inplaces because of my role at
WFUV, where I had interviewedboth you, rocky and Derek Jeter
on the same weekend, you know,and Bavon Robin and Greg Griffin
(24:25):
and Mike Piazza on the sameweekend.
I was covering the Yankees andthe Mets and the Giants and the
Jets.
You know, when I was at Fordhamas the station beat reporter.
So I had been around WorldSeries games and then, and by
extension, elbow to elbow withBob Ryan and Frank Isola guys, I
would then do a thousand TVshows with Amazing right.
(24:47):
So I had proximity to the bigsof the business at a very young
age.
So I didn't have any like wow,pinch me, I'm here.
Moment because I had alreadygotten that at Fordham, which is
why, again, I put the Fordhamyou know broadcasting and school
of communications up againstanything I had been with the
(25:08):
pros by just sheer.
You know you're in New York,you're covering the Yankees.
You know If you're in Syracuseyou're having a great time
covering, you know, the Big Eastat that time and a great
program.
But I was covering the WorldSeries for the Yankees.
So the long story is.
The long story that I just gaveyou is a short answer.
(25:31):
I felt it, I believed it.
I thought the show was greatfrom the first weekend.
As much as Cornizer and I have ahealthy cynicism or skepticism
to stories and things like that.
Contrarians, I've used oftenWilbon.
I think we all knew that theshow was really solid and I
(25:56):
began to spread my wings in waysthat were just not the sidekick
on the back end of the show.
I started to now use a produceracumen.
I had to do some of the gamesegments we have Because I, like
you know, I like hard-hittingsports news and I also like
goofy stuff.
I'm a personality guy, so I lovethe idea that Cornelizer and
(26:17):
Wilbon would dress as cops.
We would play good cops badcops, you know, and that was my
idea.
I said let's get them in theoutfits and we'll figure out a
game after that.
You know Odds makers and what'sthe word, which is just
basically Mad Libs.
But I wanted smart guys to usebig words to describe the news
(26:38):
of the day.
To me, it was fun building outthe show like that.
So that's where my focus washow can I really put these guys
in a position to win?
And the show got even better asthe year or two went on.
Rocky (26:53):
And around the horn.
You were a guest on the shownumerous times, right, you would
guest host it numerous times.
That's a different thing.
Tony (27:00):
I didn't have the bravado or I mean other than I knew I
was on the next show.
So audience may know me, butwhen I got a phone call saying
can you?
Or even a knock on the doorbecause we were in the studio
next door, they said we have aproblem with our studio today.
Can you fill in for TimKalashaw?
And I was supposed to be asports opiner in that moment.
(27:25):
The first seven times I filledin on Around the Horn, that one
was, those were nerves.
That one was like yeah, I haveto come off as an expert, right,
and in your mind you're likeI'm gonna fake it until I make
it, but I don't know if that'sthe best strategy.
I wish you know I mean I wouldadvise anybody and I do, and you
know I would pass this adviceon to you now as a host of a
(27:47):
show, but I do it with, uh, youknow, an example would be any
new panelists we would have hadon around the Horn.
I want you to be yourself, andI know I wasn't being myself
when I was in those firstappearances on Around the Horn.
I was trying to be what Ithought people wanted the
panelists or host to be, right.
And while that is anunderstandable strategy, you
(28:09):
know I would say for my own, youknow I was noisier than I
wanted to be.
You have a great title hereMute the Noise.
You know I would say for my own, you know I was noisier than I
wanted to be.
You have a great title hereMute the Noise.
You know I can be loud, I haveno problem with volume, but
there's a lot of noise thatcomes with my train of thought.
I want to get everything out.
I want to show you how smart Iam at all moments.
(28:32):
That's what I was trying to doat 23, 25, and I was guesting on
Around the Horn and it took,you know, intention to kind of
try to scale that back a littlebit and think of one or two
things you want to do, even inan answer, and not try to give
(28:52):
you an eight answer.
You know a topic answer right.
Does that make sense?
You're trying to do too muchand sometimes less is more.
Rocky (29:02):
You know I look at the media today and you're fortunate
you were at.
You know you had around thehorn for so many years and I
look at the media today versusthe media from you know when you
got into the business what?
Over 20 years ago, even longerthan that.
What do you think?
What are some of the biggestchanges that you see?
Nowadays?
There's much more competition.
Tony (29:19):
Sure sure.
Rocky (29:20):
You're probably the biggest free agent out there,
but what's changed on your end?
How much has changed?
Tony (29:25):
I mean even the nuts and bolts of it.
Right, I mean, how we consumesports is a little bit different
now, but even how, let's say, asports fan consumes highlights
and discussion, in my first five, ten years of Around the Horn,
I think I was writing highlightreads where you're describing
what happened because you didn'tassume everybody watched the
(29:47):
game, because not all games were, you know, and then you're
breaking down games.
Now it's much more reactive andyou know somebody has seen the
highlights.
I mean the viewer's experienceis much more reactive.
You've seen the highlightsimmediately on Twitter or you
have already, and now you'retrying to approach the topic a
(30:09):
little bit differently.
So I think how people consumesports has dictated that,
certainly around the horn andPTI before it, first and
foremost, you know, began asaturation of market on sports
debate, which is not a bad thing.
I don't believe sports debate,you know, needs to be one thing.
(30:29):
It can be all things right,right, I?
By that I mean you know you canhave former athletes talking
about it and you can havereporters talking about it.
I believe you can have, youknow, fans even, and I I do
think where we're at theprecipice, uh, of being in a
place where, where the viewerand the fan has a voice involved
(30:51):
in in the greater media becauseof what social media has become
.
So I think that to me, honestly, social media is probably the
biggest change.
I mean, uh, that has happenedin the greater sports fans
experience because they feelthey have a voice now.
They do have a voice now andand that's wonderful and there
still will be a place for peoplewho are journalists and, of
(31:14):
course, athletes.
And I still am bullish on theindustry.
I still am.
I know some of my friendsbelieve sports media is broken
and I believe there are moreopportunities to get more voices
out there.
That's always a good thing.
Rocky (31:28):
Who have been some people whether it's in the industry,
not in the industry that havekind of been role models for you
.
Tony (31:35):
Well, I have inspiration.
I mean, I'll say that first andforemost, I went from trying to
gauge what sportscasters Iadmire and like, and some of
those names are names of you, Ofcourse.
You know Ernie Johnson.
I liked his broadcasting stylein some ways.
Now we're not the same guy inthat I am, my energy runs at a
(31:56):
different level, let's say andhe is cool and even keeled in
some ways, and maybe I admirehim quite a bit and everything I
seem to know about hischaracter.
But what I most admire from,and I took from his sports
hosting Ackerman is that hesubscribed to a school that was,
or ascribed to a school thatwas.
(32:17):
The host is the point guardright, which is you know, you
set up the play and now pointguards, of course, shoot from 35
feet and NBA is different andthat's a little bit different
analogy.
Now in today's game, but let'scall it the center Snaps the
ball, sets up the lead block andlets the panel, the guest hosts
(32:40):
, whoever you are your co-pilotsto operate, and I like that
type of hosting on very manyshows.
A show like this show is alittle bit different.
You have to host, you have toreally pilot the ship the whole
way.
But I took Ernie Johnson andScott Van Pelt as two role
(33:00):
models that I really liked fromthe hosting side of things.
I always liked the way ScottVan Pelt hosted golf shows in
particular, golf casts inparticular, and then I've come
to admire hosts from outside ofsports and found value in that
just as much.
So I would say there was adelineation in my hosting of
(33:21):
Around the Horn.
Even I grew up as an adult onTV, honestly, and I became a
husband and a father and thathad an enormous impact, as it
does, on everyone's life.
But I really allowed that tohave an impact on my
professional life in some ways.
But the reality was I went frombeing a stat-crazed,
(33:43):
game-crazed sports fan who was ahost who loved that part of it,
to loving people, which Ialways did, but loving people
and feelings.
And then I realized this was adifferentiator, both for myself
as a host and for maybe evenaround the horn, as a TV show,
(34:04):
in that and this is something Iwould pass on to anyone in the
industry or any industry you'rereally in.
What makes you you, what makesyou special and let's all admit
you're special you have your jobfor a reason.
Let's go ahead, be the moviestar in your own movie, right?
(34:25):
This is not an ego thing.
I use a term self-full.
You're not going to havecontrol over your life, but you
have to go with life and be theactive participant in your life.
So I began myself trying to beas humble as I could be, because
(34:46):
that's how I was raised to beright In the role, while you're
even on BTV.
Be humble, right, okay.
And I did that for and I stilldo parts of that, but for 10
years.
That really motivated me.
But what I realized was myskill was being the unique
person that I was.
I feel like anybody could be asports crazed fan Okay.
(35:11):
Anybody could be a know-it-allabout sports Okay.
Anybody could be a know-it-allabout sports Okay.
Anybody could be a high energy,positive guy Okay.
But I know how I am with people, how I feel about other people,
how I want to put other peoplein a position where they know
they have my attention, myenergy, my goodwill, and I'm
going to now make whatever we'redoing better.
(35:32):
Right, that is a skill now thatI'm comfortable saying I have.
I put other people in positionto win and I love the feelings
that come with that.
Where do we have feelings in theworld more than sports?
You know, we all love sportsbecause we're chasing the
feeling.
You you as a player in youryouth, you know chase the
feeling of that adrenaline youfelt playing or laying a hit on
somebody, picking, picking theball off or outsmarting.
(35:55):
You know a quarterback andsaying you didn't think you knew
I would, where were you goinghere?
And I let you, you know, throwthe ball there and then I picked
it off right.
Or solving the puzzle, returninga kick right.
You loved the feeling that camewith it.
Well, I love the feeling thatwe had shared watching that game
, reliving that emotion when wehad that game, and that's when I
really began to tap into andaround the horn.
(36:16):
So then, a long answer to yourquestion.
I found inspiration from hostswho put feelings in front of
their guests, and to me that wasone guy who was a chef by the
name of Anthony Bourdain Reallyliked his show, liked the way he
told stories and liked the wayhe unified people through
cooking.
And I thought I can do thatthrough sports and I've slowly
(36:39):
did that in some ways in Aroundthe Horn and wherever I'm going
next, I think that's a place Iwant to occupy too, that
connection with an audience.
Rocky (36:47):
What was that last week like for you leading up until I
know you?
Obviously, I watched that lastshow and we'll get into that.
But what was that last weeklike for you up until I know you
?
Tony (36:55):
I, I, obviously, I watched that last show and we'll get
into that.
But what was that last weekLike for you just thinking, yeah
man, I had eight months knowingit was coming.
I'm always thinking I couldchange their mind, you know.
Rocky (37:04):
And you really never got an answer right.
Tony (37:06):
Well, I mean yeah, I mean we could say that I mean I have
an answer, I don't have ananswer, and I mean an answer and
I mean I'm almost I'm happy totalk about with you, uh, but
I've I've moved on from it, butI'm just, I my, my point is I
was I'm very sure that thenetwork wanted to go in a
(37:27):
different direction, but I knewthe other parts of it, that our
show was working.
You, know, whatever, whatevermetric you want to use to
describe working.
I know our show is working onsome levels right, so I always
thought I could change theirmind.
When it became clear theyweren't going to change your
mind, I thought I want to go out.
Nobody really ever gets to goout the way they want to go out,
but I came as close as somebodycould, which is to say I
(37:50):
brought back just abouteverybody who was on the show in
some way.
So we can I mean we couldn'tbring back everybody but in real
time show what gratitude is,because I wanted to show people
the emotion, the sentiment andthe feeling of gratitude While
(38:10):
talking about the biggest topicsin the world.
He never lost sports along theway, but that last week being
able to get Jackie McMullen backon and get Bob Ryan back on and
put Woody Page in the rightfulplace that he deserved to be in
Bill Plaschke that was importantto me.
And then showing the seeds thatthose guys planted, that led to
(38:32):
many other names and faces andhave risen to the heights of our
industry the Mina Kynes andGeorge Sedano and Israel
Gutierrez and Clinton Yates andthese people.
So I want to make sure that theaudience knew that, the impact
they had on our show, that theyknew the impact they had on me
and vice versa.
So I mean this is a long way tosay I wanted to continue to
(38:57):
demonstrate that I felt thisshow was different, that this
show brought in different voicesold, young, men, women, you
know.
I mean it's become almost invogue to not care about
differences in people right now.
I mean because it was stressedso much and I can understand
that criticism.
(39:17):
For me I wanted to hear allvoices.
I really did, and I feel likewe did it as good a job as any
tv show has done in putting asmany people out there that that
could demonstrate why theirvoice had value and I I feel
they all did so I gotta ask youto prep question for this one
too.
Rocky (39:33):
So a lot of people have asked me to ask you.
So your guests that were onthere, your panelists, how did
it work with, as far as you guysknew, the topics?
Obviously you did.
Tony (39:42):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I told them.
We had a call, they knew thetopics in advance and sometimes
they would even know thequestion I was asking.
The direct question I would ask, and sometimes I wouldn't ask
that direct question once I gotinto it because something else
pulled at me in the flow of aconversation, right.
So the most important part tome was that we were having what
(40:09):
I felt and what has become acliche to some people an
authentic conversation.
I didn't want to just do.
You know, alex Ovechkin scoredthe NHL record goal 895 last
night.
Is he as important to hockey asMichael Jordan was to the NBA,
right, which is now whoa, whoa,whoa.
Why are we even?
You know, I wanted to live inthe moment of that one sport and
(40:32):
not be comparative.
I didn't want to have just agoat conversation every single
day.
I was comfortable enough, youknow.
You know some days you ask didthis team win it?
Did this team lose it?
And I understand that that is.
That is a question I like,because it kind of puts you
right on the screws immediately.
But I I really wanted to, wantedto, in some places, defer to an
(40:59):
actual feeling.
A person we have known wascovering games either that game
or the games like that in thepast.
Who was interviewed?
Maybe that athlete, or maybesomebody who was in a similar
situation, and what was thefeeling?
What would you be writing abouttoday as someone who's a Hall
of Fame broadcaster, right?
Those were the important thingsI wanted to get to on the
(41:20):
regular.
So for me, that was somethingthat we could script in advance
or I could allow theconversation to get to.
That's what I was trying touncover.
I always wanted to uncover.
I always wanted to make peopleforget they were on TV too as
well, because I do.
I'm a performer and I like tobe performative from time to
(41:44):
time, and I know there are manypeople in the industry who are
great performers and do it verywell.
But I thought the Around theHorn show specifically, while
some people could lean into somefamiliar characters Woody could
be your crazy uncle and that'sgreat, but other times I want
him to be his genuine self.
(42:05):
Give me because I know that guyin there Give me the real deal.
Give me the one-to-one of whoyou are off air on air real deal
.
Give me the one-to-one of whoyou are off air on air.
That's.
That's one of the things Ialways try to convince you know
sports reporters, which is notan easy thing to be because you
know, I understand, you knowthey're not television
performers in general.
Rocky (42:24):
But be yourself please your show was like family,
though when you watched yourshow it was like you were kind
of sitting at a bar justshooting a breeze on sports and
you could tell you're the pointguard that made that show go and
your job was to make everybodyaround you better.
Yeah, and watching your showwas like nothing was scripted
and I think those are even likepodcasts and like tonight I have
a whole thing and, no, I didn'tget to hardly anything.
(42:45):
I'm not going anywhere.
You know what I mean, but Ithink that's what made it
special.
Tony (42:50):
Here's the thing.
Yeah, that was intentional.
There's got to just like with Imean, there's work, that work
that goes into it.
So that was a little sleight ofhand that made it really seem
like it was as breezy, but itwas the DNA of the show.
I can be almost borderlinedelusional with how I talk about
(43:13):
how I put this show together,because it will sound like art.
I was trying to make art and itwas ESPN's Around the Horn.
But I thought about my favoritemoments in my life the dorm
room at Fordham, the Sundaydinners at grandma's house where
my two grandfathers Rock werebest friends growing up in the
Lower East Side of Manhattan.
(43:33):
They happened to have childrenwho married each other because
the families were close.
Right, that's my existence.
So my two grandfathers and thenmy father and my uncles would
get to drag out fights overpinochle or whatever car game or
the ball game they werelistening to or watching and
they would love each other atthe end.
And that was something that youknow.
(43:55):
You grow up as a kid.
Rocky (43:56):
Why are they yelling at each other.
Tony (43:57):
Wait a second.
Yelling's not bad.
Yelling's not bad.
They love each other.
Look at this.
That was seriously.
That was really what I wasgoing for.
It was.
It sounds silly, but it reallyis.
It sounds like Sundays back inmy household growing up.
Exactly that's just how it was.
Yeah, no, that's how it was so.
So there's a reason why and andthis is another thing, I'm part
(44:18):
it's a relatability, right, youcan relate to that.
You can relate to a crazycharacter in the show, because
woody reminds me of my, of anuncle, right, and professor
kevin blackstone reminds me Ilove him of that professor, that
, that nerdy professor you hadwho was going to give you a
dissertation and an answer.
Sometimes you wanted a hot takeand you got a dissertation.
(44:41):
Sometimes you wanted adissertation, you got a hot take
from somebody else.
But I love that.
And then I love that I had mysmart aleck sports friend, pablo
Torre, and then I had somebodywho I really admire in the
industry, sarah Spain, who Ithink is a force of nature, you
know, and she she was like, uh,some of my cousins and my some
parts of my sister's personality, but not really.
(45:01):
She was much bigger than that.
Rocky (45:03):
I saw a lot of myself in her, but I'm just saying I was
trying to go for not charactersbut relatable people in our
lives, cause those are the typesof shows I like to watch, even
outside of sports, you know alot of people and you explained
that the scoring system and Igotta be honest with it, I
didn't know how you did thescoring system, but listening to
(45:23):
you talk today but even evenprior, it was all about how life
changes daily and day to day.
You didn't know how you weregoing to score it.
But talk to us a little bitabout that.
Tony (45:33):
I believe that you know I was trying again this is reality
referring to Horn as art, but Iwas trying to make gentle
points along the way because Iknew we had the sports covered.
I knew we had a game show inthe show and that was fun.
But the scoring system, to me,had value in being inexplicable
(45:56):
Because in a lot of ways for me,as I navigated life and through
this life of being a publicfigure on a dream job, it was
inexplicable.
Life throws stuff at you.
This is what I was told atFordham's graduation by Vince
Scully.
This is how much it stayed withme, rob.
Life gives you the test longbefore it gives you the lesson.
(46:18):
What does that mean?
That means life's going tothrow stuff at you before you
actually learn how to do it.
That's just the way it is.
So the fact that the greatestsports play-by-play guy of all
time, sportscaster at the schoolthat I went to, told me this
(46:39):
and I allowed it to be thelesson that navigated the
scoring system on the show it'svery silly but it's true.
I wanted to score the showdifferently every day, because
life scores us all differentlyevery day and being able to
adapt and roll with it is reallya secret to life.
I don't have anything figuredout, but I do know through you,
know through my own personalexperiences and then, of course,
everybody in my life that knowsme knows you know I'm going to
(47:02):
be able to adapt and roll withwhatever situation comes at me
as best as I could in thatmoment and then even better the
next day with the experiences Ilearned.
And we tried to do that in alittle way every day with sports
debate.
Rocky (47:16):
So, tony, you were strong about your faith, right.
That was well documented withyou.
And then you became a dad andyou got married and you were
very open on social media aboutanxiety, struggles, and I'm
going to tell you I'm the sameway, because it's been a
challenge with me as well overthe years but you were very
vocal about it, right.
You don't shy away from that.
(47:37):
How important was that for youto be open about that.
Tony (47:40):
Well, you know, for me, I am a communicator, right as I
turn on a light here, and Ireally apologize for not doing
this before.
Okay, let me see how this isAll right, here we go.
Sorry, the kids took control ofwhat is our studio here, our
studio.
And so for me, I learned earlyon I'm best at this, talking
(48:05):
through things, and that's noteven just talking through things
in my head, talking throughthings out loud.
But I also learned when you dothat, I mean that there's some
vulnerability.
You have to be prepared to showsome sides of you, that
sometimes there's a voice insideyou Don't tell people about
this, you don't want peopleknowing about this, but in me I
(48:26):
knew that there would be benefitfor me getting it out, and then
I I saw if I'm going through it, that could help somebody else
out.
My people in my life can dothings the exact opposite way.
I'm married to the, the greatestperson in my life and and I
know she didn't process losinguh amadeo in childbirth a
(48:48):
stillbirth that we had that Italked about on the TV show, and
it's been very much a part ofmy life that has both brought
sadness but has broughtsomething that has become very
full and a positive feeling inmy greater life, right, and
(49:11):
being able to communicate thatto people on a sports TV show,
but have it returned to mebecause it's a pay it forward
thing.
Those people then begin toprocess things and then they
pass it forward in their lives.
I recognize that early on thatwhen you're in a public position
, there could be benefits tothat for other people.
(49:31):
So my point is I was goingthrough generalized anxiety
disorder probably all of myadult life, but it became very
pronounced when I had childrenand this was not something
that's commonly talked about bymen, right.
While I'm hesitant to call itpostpartum anxiety, it was at
(49:56):
one point in my greater sortingout of this described as that.
But I would just say I neededto impart to men and I know how
many men watch our show, apercentage of men that you have
to get your feelings in order.
(50:16):
Whether you communicate them outloud or not, to a therapist or
not.
I mean, that's not my.
That was my decision to do andthat may not be anyone's
decision to do and that may notbe anyone's decision to do.
But giving voice to feelings inany way, even an internal voice
to your feelings, demonstratesthat you are now at least
thinking about it and not justletting it hiding in the shadows
(50:48):
and then coming out.
In ways Maybe it comes out.
In some ways.
People have a temper.
Some ways people have visceralreactions where anxiety gets
them to be breathing heavy, thepanic attacks that some people
maybe have experienced or atleast see in movies.
Right For me, I was having itall.
I was having what I felt waspostpartum.
(51:15):
I was having panic attacks andthen I had a very, very pointed
moment where we were atdelivering Enzo and losing
Amadeo and I knew that wassomething when I wrote the
eulogy for the mass for Amadeothat I wanted to share publicly
because I thought people couldbenefit from a public discussion
about that.
So I did it, first on socialmedia, but then I was invited to
do it on the TV show and I'mvery happy I did it still
remains to me a proud momentthat made my loss, our loss,
(51:41):
like I said, be a very full,full feeling.
And now I don't, you know I myfear was I was going to think
whenever I thought of Enzo'sbirthday, I would think of
Amadeo's um, you know, holdingAmadeo and burying Amadeo.
And the fact is, I think, whenI think of of Amadeo, or when I
see twins, or when I think ofanything, I think of the lives
(52:03):
that have come back to me totell me they were touched by it,
know, and how they'veexperienced similar things, or
how it pursued, it made thempursue getting getting their
feelings under control in alittle way, whether it's through
talk therapy or not, you knowso take us back to the last, the
last show, and when I watchedthat last show you're on, then I
(52:24):
thought of kobe bryan speak,when you said mom out, and you
put the mic down and you, youput the mute button down.
Rocky (52:29):
Did the last show go the way you thought it would go?
Did you get everything?
Tony (52:32):
Yeah, I mean I mean, I really I was trying to do a
couple of things.
Um, I was trying to first, inthe first three minutes, show a
side of me.
Everyone knows I love the movieGood fellows, I I like the art
of Goodfellas just as much as Ilike the Italianist, but I do
love the Italianist first andforemost, but I love the art of
it and the cinematography.
So I did a shot that harkensback to that.
(52:55):
But I did it for a reason toshow everybody who works on a
show that doesn't have theirface in front of the camera,
right.
So that was one thing.
I wanted to make sure I showedyou our producers and our camera
people and all these sorts ofthings.
So I was able to do that in twoand a half minutes in a way
that I like and my children gotto get you know, just to get
people that are important in mylife.
I needed to make sure ourgreatest of all time, you know,
(53:19):
whatever the eight paneliststhat were able to get on that
show, but I did want to onceagain affirm to the viewer what
they just experienced.
It was a show that has ascoring system that maybe
flummoxed you on the scoring,but this is what the scoring was
.
It was like life, please rollwith life.
And I wanted to underline thatsports was about connection and
(53:42):
the way we connect with sports,but the way we would connect
with others.
I thought of two things.
Rocky, are you a wrestling fanat all?
You know, I grew up withwrestling a little bit, but I'm
not a fan now by any stretch.
But the actual placement of themute button on the floor it may
have been mom out, but for me Iwas thinking of wrestlers.
I always liked the romance ofwrestlers putting their
(54:03):
wrestling boots in the ring andwalking out.
That's what actually that was.
And secondly, there was amoment I even reached my hand
towards the camera and it was adevice that I saw an old
wrestler doing a very famouspromo, dusty Rhodes, you know.
And that wasn't even thewrestler I grew up with.
You know, he was more in thesouth and doing these things,
but I love the way sometimeswrestlers did promos.
(54:25):
These are the things I wouldwatch on youtube.
You know you can watch machoman savage do promos for an hour
, right so dusty roads.
You know he gave his hard timespeech and he used his hand
gather for me.
He said at one point, and thatwas one of the things I was
doing we're trying to physicallyshow a, a connection between
the host of this show and andand the audience.
(54:45):
Thank you, I mean, it's justabout gratitude again.
So I absolutely got everythingout.
I didn't need to do everything.
It's a 23-minute show.
You know we had 4,953 episodes.
I think I was comfortable, happyand thrilled, putting my full
self into the show all those 23years.
I didn't take a second or thirdjob really, or take on the
(55:09):
podcast.
I want to do SportsCenter.
You know I want to giveeverything I could to this show
and ride it to the end.
I see value in that.
You know, basically a fullday's work, right, so give it
all.
So I gave it my all and then,you know, I was able, I felt
triumphant, signing off, which Idon't think is a word most
(55:30):
people would utilize when a showgets canceled and ended.
But it's how I felt.
I mean, that's the only way tobe a reality check.
You know, you made it 23 yearsand 5,000 episodes.
You're not canceled, you'rejust ending.
You know, and that's how I feel.
Rocky (55:45):
Well, a couple interviews you did.
I heard you throw out thereyour show, the.
The show had more.
Tony (55:52):
I mean, we don't have hiatus while we were off, maybe
during college bowl week,because he has been showed all
the bowls in our place and wewere all for the little league
world series, the silly thingsthat we were all for.
But uh, yeah, we didn't havehiatus, so we were able to put
up some real numbers and I valuethat too.
I mean, like, again, I'm joereali's son, you know, I don't
know how many days of work mydad missed in whatever his 50
(56:14):
years or 48 years.
You know it can't be more thanthree or four, you know, with
the beat emergency gallstones orsomething like that, you know.
So I mean, I was similar to thatfor a long time until until we
really, you know, until Idecided to to catch my breath in
some ways.
So, yeah, that part of it, Iadmired that too, but in the end
(56:34):
it was the connection with theaudience.
I mean, that's why I came backevery day.
I loved putting you know newfaces on TV and I loved showing
different parts of mypersonality in small ways on the
show and talking about newtopics.
But I, but I, I love theaudience, you know, and and
they're not going anywhere theviewers, you know.
I mean I'll introduce myself toa new group of viewers.
Rocky (56:57):
Uh, whatever's next, yeah well, that leads to my last
thing for you here was I knowwe're not going to get what's
next, but tv sports.
I know probably there's games.
I know there's a lot of.
Tony (57:07):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I love sports.
I'm staying in sports.
For sure, the biggest sportingevents is where my attention
will be now, maybe not on thedaily, doing sports discussion
on the daily.
I don't know if I've closedthat chapter, but I'm in a
position now.
You know where I'm opening up adoor for the first time, so I
(57:29):
really want to see that.
But you know me a little bitRock.
I mean I love my little gamesand game shows.
I love.
I still think there's a placefor sports fans average fans to
get their voices out there.
So any way I can createsomething that would be that for
the average I'm in game for andyou know I'm envious of anybody
(57:54):
who's doing any type of showswith family-related fare.
You know I want to learn how Ican put a show together that can
talk to dads, specificallysports dads, even because I love
the.
I want people to have betterrelationships with people in
(58:16):
their life kids, parents andkids, kids and parents, vice
versa.
You want to have a betterrelationship with your kids.
I believe sports is a great wayto do that.
I believe working out with yourkids is a great way to do that.
I believe working out with yourkids is a great way to do that.
I believe that 30 minutes youtake driving your kids to the
game and your 30 minutes goingback from the game is a really,
really I'm going to use the wordsweet time, because you could
(58:38):
just be support for them, youcould just be there, they could
open up to you and maybe they'renot ready to open up to you
every time.
And building that relationship,though, so they can open up to
you every time, and and buildingthat relationship, though, so
they can open up to you in thosemoments through sports, is a
worthy endeavor, and that'ssomething I want to try to.
That's a nut I want to try tocrack going forward well, I can
relate to that.
Rocky (58:58):
I was my dad, who was a long time high school football
coach in this area, probablyover 35 years.
I was, uh, I was his assistantcoach for a little while when I
moved back here a long time agoand then he retired and then he
was my assistant coach for myfirst varsity job.
And then my son now, who isactually a seventh grader going
into eighth grade, played for meat the youth level.
(59:20):
And then my daughter, who'sonly nine years old I coached
her third and fourth gradebasketball team.
So sports is in my family,coaching is in my family.
Tony (59:29):
Coaching is in my family.
It's a nice time Again.
It is invaluable.
The lessons you learn for lifeyou know this as an athlete, you
know this.
The lessons you learn in sportshave turned you know into your
career, right, I mean the way.
Failures are not failures,they're learning experiences,
discipline that you've learnedand all these things.
But I do believe they're justan open forum where parents can
(59:55):
talk with other parents abouthow to be with their children in
and out of.
Sports is a place I want to bein.
So I'll give you that I'm goingto crack that nut.
No matter how, no matter.
Even if I'm doing the biggestsporting events in the world as
a prime job, my heart's going tobe somewhere else in the very
(01:00:16):
near future doing that type ofsports, parenting.
Rocky (01:00:21):
Well, listen, man, I don't want to keep you much
longer, so I just want to saythis was a true honor.
I know I've been chasing youand bugging you, but you've been
good to me so I can't thank youenough.
I can't wait to see what you donext.
I'll be following you.
I was looking.
You know I had a house fire.
Tony (01:00:36):
Rocky, I was looking for some of my old play-by-play
charts to see if I can bring up.
You know, you take a big manilafolder and you draw you know
the names and what number wereyou.
I was trying to remember that23, 23, and can you name your
whole secondary?
Oh, chris roads I remember bigstrong safety number 42, uh, I
(01:01:01):
believe maybe 47.
I remember ray redden, yeah,ray redden yeah he had very
sticky corners, he turned theball over a lot Lance.
Rocky (01:01:11):
Peck.
Tony (01:01:14):
John Piella was my year.
Rocky (01:01:18):
Yes, he was the strong safety.
Small but tough, I think healso okay, yeah, and I'm trying.
Tony (01:01:26):
Yeah, that's a good four right there.
That's a solid.
I'll go with those four.
Yeah, that's a good four rightthere.
I'll go with those four guys.
That's a solid four right there.
Rocky (01:01:33):
It was a good group man.
A lot of us still keep in touch.
I don't know if you rememberBrad Fradenberg that name but
there's a lot of us Fordham guysthat still keep in touch.
Tony (01:01:41):
And that team to go from zero wins to eight wins, to nine
wins and qualifying nearly forthe end.
I mean, that's all you need toknow.
That you demonstrated whatsports can do.
You build on something, and I'dlike to say I had it, I knew it
, even at 0-11, I knew what theywere building was right.
Yeah, yeah, that was a goodprogram.
Rocky (01:02:03):
It was special.
But yeah, man, listen, Iappreciate you.
Keep in touch, please, and uh,very well, I may be having you
as my uh next guest on the onthe sports parenting uh podcast.
Tony (01:02:17):
Yeah, I'd love to talk about uh, coaching, coaching you
sports, because you know I'mgonna go back to this.
So much of what you hear isabout the parents yelling at
referees or the coach and thereferee coming blows or
something like that.
It can be more than that.
It doesn't that we can.
We can have a more fullexperience and relationship and
(01:02:38):
discussion about what it is to,to make sure that isn't the only
thing that happens in it.
That that's my goal.
Rocky (01:02:45):
All right, rocky well, keep in touch, man, I appreciate
talking to you.
Tony (01:02:49):
Thanks for playing.
Remember when I love it.
Rocky (01:02:52):
No problem, thanks, tony, let me just fix my screen here.
So how cool was that to haveTony Raleigh on with me to go
down memory lane down at Fordham, our time there and just the
stories he's had and just wherehe's gotten to today.
(01:03:15):
And I can't wait to see what'snext for him.
But I've been chasing him for awhile and he's always responded
to me and he's always beengreat to me and there's a long
list of Fordham broadcastersthat are on TV and I thought he
explained it well.
Between you know, syracuse isfantastic and I'm not knocking
anybody from Syracuse becausethere's a lot of great ones, but
(01:03:35):
there's also a lot of goodFordham ones too.
So I was happy to Tony talkabout that as his personal
struggles with, with anxiety.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthe scoring on the round the
horn is time on PTIti pardon theinterruption with tony
kornheiser and and michaelwilbon.
And then you know he got hisshot in 2000.
He was a young kid who grew upright in front of us.
(01:03:55):
So if you follow pti and thenyou follow around the horn,
here's this 20 something yearold kid, wallet fordham covered
the yankees, covered the mets,covered all the big platforms,
and then you saw him grow up infront of our eyes and he's first
class, like many of the Fordhamguys that came before us as
well.
So I want to thank Tony fortuning in here tonight with me.
(01:04:15):
Much appreciated that.
Hopefully you enjoyed ittonight.
The playback will be up onFacebook, youtube, twitter,
linkedin.
You can hear all the playbacks,too, wherever you listen to
your podcast.
So I really appreciateeverybody tuning in tonight.
So, as I always say here, theRock
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